From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  1 03:41:44 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 92 03:34:53 -0800
Subject: Re:  speaking of Live 105...

	live one oh five does not have a monopoly on alternative
	music, sorry to say.  try kusf, kalx, kpoo, kpfa, kfjc
	ksuc and even ksjs.  tune your radio.

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  1 11:19:52 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 92 11:12:54 -0800
Subject: Re: sf DJs in foreign lands


I spoke to Robbie's girlfriend yesterday -- he and Scott were in Toronto
on Friday night, and Robbie's gone on to gigs in Michigan and Chicago.

So it's the LA promoters who are not to be believed (sur-prise!!!)

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  1 18:15:53 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 92 18:09:22 -0800
Subject: Weekend Update


Hmm... y'all must be asleep or something.  ;)

I want to thank everyone who turned out for Alternity.  Even though the
crowd was smaller this time, in my opinion I thought the event itself was
just as good if not better - all three DJ's turned out MARVELOUS sets,
the techno band Electrolux (the same two guys who provided the sound for
Connection, Eric and Derek) weren't bad, and there was more than enough
paint to go around. ;)  The turnout was 116 paid, which meant after the
rental there was only $80.  However, there is money left over from the
last Alternity to cover everything.  The turnout was low due to Basics, of
course, but I feel with more publicity we could have had a higher turnout.
One huge surprise of the night was to see Michael Cook there, one of my
favorite DJ's from the LA scene a few years ago.  He was there with another
promoter checking out Moonpup's set.  

I am getting kinda tired of having to deal with the door guys there, though.
I am sorry to the group of people who could not make it in.  Legally the
club is 21+ - the understanding was that the doorman would use his 
discretion when admitting people in, but that that discretion would be 
somewhat liberal.  There were a few that he refused to let in.  I tried to
talk him and Ira into letting them in, to no avail.  But Ira did say that
come next month the club will have an 18+ license, so we won't have to
worry about this next time.  (I don't know if "next month" means beginning
today November 1st, so I don't know if Come/Unity will be 18+.  I hope so.)
But still... instead of an Alternity 3 next month, do we want to try to
get a large indoor space and hold a Connection 2?  Even though the small
get-togethers are great, I really want to pay the DJ's more and have some
more elaborate visual displays and stuff.  I also want to break out of the
after-2 slot and have something that runs all night.  A couple people have
been approaching me with some possible warehouses and shopping malls and
stuff, and I've been having my eye on a particular rooftop parking lot in
downtown ;)  What's the verdict?  We can of course still have small 
get-togethers.  Why not another picnic?


As for Saturday, after a nasal-passage-clearing dinner at PhuKet (say that
ten times fast), Howard, Gunther, and I went to experience the Castro.
Wooooo!  Incredible.  30,000 people dressed in incredible costumes and
doing the craziest things.  To jump into Neilspeak for a second: fishnet-fu.
Rocky-Horror-Picture-Show fu.  Fake-breasts fu.  Just a whole lotta fun.

Around 12 Gunther and I go to check out Casper/Sharon.  The line looked
very long and it was NOT MOVING, and there were beer bottles everywhere, so he 
and I decided to drive down to Lighthouse II in Santa Cruz.  We figured if
L2 was not happening then we'd drive back up to Caspar, by which time the
bar would close and the drunks would have left.  About
half-way down we both realize we don't remember the xact directions, so
after getting there we go on a wild goose chase for about half an hour 
until one of us comes up with the brilliant idea of going to a record store
and seeing if there was a poster for it.  By the second record store we struck
gold.  We finally get to the place around 2:30.  At first I was underwhelmed - 
Craig had told me he got an old railway station, so I was expecting something
big and ornate; instead, it was at a restaurant that at one point used to be
a railway station.  It was small, and instead of having one main dance floor
it had 3 one-third-dance-floors.  There were only a couple hundred people 
there, which was actually the right number for the space.  After finding 
the Normals and Paul and some other Santa Cruzians, I began to relax and
enjoy myself.  The people there were very interesting (many in costume)
and very friendly.  Bruse Eisner (_Ecstasy, the MDMA story_) was seen
floating around the crowd, as was - get this - Jason, our friend from
Bonny Doon.  He looked like he was doing great;  I didn't get to talk with
him, but his hands looked okay, he looked like he was wearing some sort
of orthopedic shoes, and he was dressed in hospital clothing. ;)  He got in
touch with Paul Thomas via phone recently, so maybe we'll get to hear from
him on this forum in the near future...  Carlos DJ'd for a while, and really
got the crowd working.  I would categorize his spinning style as "on-top".
He is not content to let a record spin while he chooses the next.  He is
always transforming it or playing around with two copies or what have you.
He had two copies of the Might Ming playing, one exactly 2 beats behind the
other, which made for some interesting echoey effects at the "aaaeee ya ya ya
ya ya ya ya ya" part but also made the break with the organ-y synth sound
totally messed up.  He also played the UVC B-side, and right at the "aah
aah aah aah" part he was tweaking with the pitch control massively, making
every "aah" in a different note.  It... almost worked.  ;)  Outside was a
very cool chill space, with a separate DJ (who at one point threw on KLF's
"Chill Out" for an hour), which definitely worked.  We left around 7:30
in the morning - the drive back was LOOOONG.  Gawd I wish SC was closer
to the city!

	All in all, a good weekend.  How was Basics?

	Brian


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  1 19:34:35 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 92 19:28:25 -0800
Subject: me again


To parallel Pete's marvelous call for a virtual rave on IRC, I was able
to set up a program on my work account at haas.berkeley.edu that is
similar to but much nicer that IRC/ICB/Forum/etc.  Basically, all
you need for this one is outbound telnet, no special binaries like
the other two.  The other advantage is that this will be a *private*
line, not a public one like the others. (But anyone can join)  The only
disadvantage is that I can only leave it running while I'm logged in
(otherwise it could probably get shut down) and only during off-peak
hours.  But since I've been in a constant state of login recently,
this should be no problem. ;)  The program will for sure be active
on Sunday and Monday nights from 4-10pm PST (this is when I work)
as well as every now and then.  Basically, I don't want it running
while the sysadmin for haas is on-line.  The program itself is very
slick, easy to use (much easier than IRC, about as easy as ICB/Forum)
and has all the features like private messaging, etc.

Okay, to get to it:

telnet haas.berkeley.edu 7283

(why 7283?  No reason - other than that on a phone pad it spells R-A-V-E)

and follow the directions.  It'll ask you for a password - please do 
not give the same password you use for your normal accounts!  The file
it uses to store logs does not encrypt those passwords (but don't worry,
it's chmod'd to me only)

Another disadvantage (though some may see it as an advantage) is that it
doesn't automatically know your login the way ICB and IRC do, so please
give it your full login name (i.e., bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu) when you
first join and from then on.

I'll always have a window open on it, so when you join I'll see ya!  If 
anyone wants the source let me know...

	Brian


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"MDMA is like getting a glimpse at the picture on the box of the jigsaw puzzle
of life.  You still have to put the pieces together." - Rick Ingrasci, Ph.D.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  1 20:38:08 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 92 20:30:33 -0800
Subject: Re: another way to communicate - correction


oops.  One correction to make.  When it asks for a "login", just give your
name in all lower case.  But when it asks for your "handle", then give it
your full e-mail address.  Or enough of it that we know who you are.  ;)

	Brian


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  1 21:07:10 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 92 16:58:49 PST
Subject: ???

KPFA update:  Steve saw the program manager in her office, prepared to get shot down in
flames, and walked in.  She says "Oh hi Steve (remembering his name), I'm realy sorry O
I haven't had time to even look at your stuff yet, I've been really busy, etc."  So, it's
good news in that we were afraid that she just hadn't gotten around to telling him no and
that's not the case.  She just has a lot to do and understandibly hasn't given us any
thought yet.
Mykl suggested that we (the list) campaign in favor of the show and I think that's a great
idea but when and how should we do it?  Should we do it only if she initialy says no or 
should we all start calling in imediately or what?
-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 01:18:17 1992
From: "Your friend, Mike {!)" <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 01:11 PDT
Subject: B a S i C s

Well, I went to Basics on Friday, and it was..interesting..

First off, my friends and I drove a long way (it was across teh way from
Marine World and I was coming up from Santa Clara at 11pm) and got to the
expo place, and that was fine.

The space was really pretty good.  Huge, though.  Waaay too big for the amount
of people who were there (I am horrible at figuring out how many, but there
wasn't enough) and the energy was kinda odd.  I was having a good time,
dancing and such, but the togetherness that I encountered on the 
October 3rd Basics and at Destiny just wasn't there.  The DJs were good,
but nothing really incredible.  (And I am pretty big fan of those guys)
Jeno was on, but maybe I was just too tired to really get into it.
I saw some SFRavers there, and that was fantastic, but I am quickly learning 
how hard it is to talk to anyone for longer than a minute at these things..
which is fine, if frustrating...

The drive home was horrid....got back at 8:30, very tired, but happy to be
alive...I don't know.  It was a good party, and it had lotsa potential, but
it just didn't pick up.   I figured it might be kinda worrisome when I saw
people leaving at 1am...I think that the date was probably unfortunate, since
 a lot of people might have been figuring on just going out on  Halloween a
nd skipping this altogether...oh well.

If no one saw me with my blinking light, I was also the guy who was waving
that long sheet of saran wrap/dry cleaner bag in front of the lasers toward
the morning hours....that was actually a lot of fun...I still can't feel
my shoulder though...

oh well..any more comments?  Sorry about the Sharon fiasco...that's the worst.
I am trying to find out if anyone had a good time on Halloween!  

Have a good week...
m i  k    e

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 01:20:19 1992
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 01:12:52 -0800
Subject: Re:  Caspar/Sharon

After hearing the final announcement for Sharon (and Casper), and
realizing it was the same scene, AND it was one of those early-price-
increase deals ($25?!), AND they said get there early because it
was gonna sell out, I decided to bail and check out Castro St.
instead.  But I had gotten back from the Jerry Garcia show after
midnight, waited more than 45 minutes for the fabled Market St.
bus, and decided to check out the Kennel Club scene instead (some
kind of reggae/Afrobeat band).  Took the Geary bus, caught a
cab on Div and got to the Kennel just in time to find out they
were closing in 10 minutes.  Took another *45* minutes of frantic
waving for a cab -- and *just then* the bus came steaming down
Divisadero. 
'
Shoulda walked from BART to Castro after all, it would have been
a more interesting trip.  

And Alternity2 wins my award for most fun of the weekend (although
Garcia was not bad at  all).

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 01:26:54 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 01:20:41 -0800
Subject: Caspar/Sharon


whoops.  Didn't mean to send it since I wasn't quite finished.  Well, here's 
the rest.  I wandered around a lot, looking for people I knew or who I could
meet and connect with.  I found one of the first and none of the last.  I 
think things were just too hectic.  As the night wore on, I found myself
becoming more and more overwhelmed.  Even though I was sober, something began
to really freak me out.  I felt very uncomfortable and upset.  What really
bummed me out was that, while I was feeling like this, no one came up to me
like at a Basics or a Gathering or at Alternity2 to say hi, give me a hug,
and ask me if everything was okay.  I felt no sense of community at all.  
There were times I wanted to just sit down and cry.  I danced in front of the
speakers for a while and this calmed me down a bit, but when I stopped to rest
I felt like everything was closing in on me again.  Then, to top it off, when
I was really wigged out, this really gross guy walked by me and ran his had
whoops hand up my leg and attempted to grab my ass.  Feeling quite nauseous,
I pushed him away.  I have never felt violent at a rave, but I almost punched
the guy.  That sort of thing has happened to me before and I usually can blow
it off.  But, with all the people and confusion and uncomfortableness, it 
made me really angry.  I am still very sad that I felt that way.  I guess I
was just getting used to the community feeling and the loving and caring
attitude.  Now I feel more strongly than ever that we need to keep from losing
that sense of family.  I think it is wonderful that people want to be a part
of the scene and that they want to be involved.  I do not think, however, that
the rave scene has an obligation to entertain the general public when the 
general public wants to behave like immature assholes.  I'm not talking
discrimination, exclusion and elitism.  I just think we need to make a few
minor adjustments and get peopled involved in being a part of the community
and not the money making machine.  I hope you all knowwhatimean.

As for the music?  Well, I spent very little time in the hard core room, so
I don't know much about that.  I watched Jeno for a little while.  Garth, to
my surprise, did not mix last.  And, while he is my personal favorite, I have
to admit that he was not as good as usual.  Perhaps it was because he was out
of his element time-wise.  There was another strange surprise after Garth.
At about 4 or 5 in the morning, sandwiched between two lovely slices of house
(by Garth and Thomas), this dj from England (E-Lustrious or something like 
that) spun an hour or so of techno.  Some of it was pretty hard core.  Now,
don't get me wrong, I like techno, but not at 5 in the morning and not
between Garth and Thomas.  IMHO, it would have been better to skip the techno
(since there was a room with only techno anyway) and have more Thomas.  
Maybe I was just being poopy.  Who knows.

Besides the dancing, there was one other thing.  In the morning, I thought I
had been ditched by my friends and stranded in SF.  Luckily, I hadn't, and my
friends were nice enough to drive me all the way home before going to DNA 
(since I couldn't get in).  

Whoa.  That was one BIG complaint.  I'm sorry it was so negative.  I'm sure
there were plenty of people who had fun.  I just wasn't one of them.  Maybe
I'm just lame or maybe I need to take another break from raving.  Maybe I
should just stay away from big commercial raves.  I just wish I could have
gotten a few more supportive hugs.  I'm very tired now and I'm sure you are
all quite tired of my rambling complaint.  bye all d8)

always, leah

		We do not love people because they are beautiful.
		They are beautiful because we love them.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 01:47:54 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 00:50:36 PST
Subject: Re:  please add us

	I'm sorry I won't be making it to Techno Anarchy!
	I hope it goes well...
	I'm being a bit reclusive until the <I'm nervous!> elections...
	I'll see you all at Community on Tuesday night if Clinton wins..if you can
	make it. (1015 Folsom,starts late..)
	-- Chris.

Chris
	Come even if Clinton  looses,  We'll REALLY need Community then!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 09:32:35 1992
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 09:19:18 -0800
Subject: Apology..

  Hi..I don't know if I seemed like I was in a wierd mood on friday
or not..but I certainly felt like I wasn't smiling and wasn't any
fun at Alternity.. I'm just a little nervous before the election..
(Can't get over this nagging fear that the Bushmen may be able to
throw the election..) I'll probably feel better TOMARROW..
(God willing..)

BTW - Does anyone know the FULL lyrics to "The Wicked Witch is Dead" from
The Wizard of Oz???

-Chris.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 09:33:24 1992
From: Brian Topping <topping@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 09:21:08 -0800
Subject: Re:  Caspar/Sharon

Hi all,

We also went to Casper/Sharon, and felt the same as Leah, that there were too
many outsiders there that were ruining it for all.  The women I was with
were also "felt up" on numerous occasions, and it made the entire scene 
unpleasant for me because of their discomfort.  One was even so bold as to
attempt insertion of his fingers into my girlfriend's privates as he passed
by!



 
I think there is this perception by outsiders that the rave scene is some kind
of free love in the nineties that they can capitalize on without any
investment in themselves.   There is plenty of love to go around if the vibes
are right, but they just don't get that one without the other becomes really
ugly.

Being somewhat new to the rave scene (<10 raves), I am just beginning to feel
at home.  I really love everyone, but am not used to expressing it.  I really
enjoy having others come around with "treats" (thanks Mr. Vapo-Rub!-), but I
usually come with my girlfriend and we haven't tried the roving hugs and gift
scene yet.  I guess what I am getting at is that it takes a while to become
comfortable with a scene, and it may be that the explosive growth has not given
time for the newcomers (like myself) to gel into it.  I guess we need to realize
that we all have something to give and should just do it instead of thinking
that we are new!

for what it is all worth...
Bri
 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 10:32:37 1992
From: Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 10:24:07 PST
Subject: Weekend Update

brian b writes:

>I want to thank everyone who turned out for Alternity.  Even though the
>crowd was smaller this time, in my opinion I thought the event itself was
>just as good if not better - all three DJ's turned out MARVELOUS sets,

you're too kind.

>I am getting kinda tired of having to deal with the door guys there, though.

they are capital-A attitude, although at least this time they didn't
keep me waiting outside after they had already let the person carrying
my crate in!

>But still... instead of an Alternity 3 next month, do we want to try to
>get a large indoor space and hold a Connection 2?

yes!  either a warehouse or a bigger club like townsend or the
trocadero (or even the king st garage)...  we can DO THIS!  and if
whoever wound up taking the UV paint murals home can bring them to
hang as banners in our future rave space, that will be Way Cool...

>He also played the UVC B-side, and right at the "aah
>aah aah aah" part he was tweaking with the pitch control massively, making
>every "aah" in a different note.  It... almost worked.  ;)

must be diplomatic-speak for "sucked rocks."  i prefer spun's approach
- he messes with the faders so each "ah" comes from the other side of
the room...

>a separate DJ (who at one point threw on KLF's
>"Chill Out" for an hour)

neat trick since it's only a 44 minute CD... :)

so i missed casper on saturday.  given leah's comments, i'm glad i
did!

Jon Drukman (God's personal DJ)                 uunet!sco!jondr   jondr@sco.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha ha!  I titter at Milk's humor at the expense of the handicapped!!   - Cheese

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 11:07:54 1992
From: Randy Bias <randyb@calera.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 10:59:09 PST
Subject: Re: Caspar/Sharon

> think things were just too hectic.  As the night wore on, I found myself
> becoming more and more overwhelmed.  Even though I was sober, something began
> to really freak me out.  I felt very uncomfortable and upset.  What really
> bummed me out was that, while I was feeling like this, no one came up to me
> like at a Basics or a Gathering or at Alternity2 to say hi, give me a hug,
> and ask me if everything was okay.  I felt no sense of community at all.  
> There were times I wanted to just sit down and cry.  I danced in front of the
> speakers for a while and this calmed me down a bit, but when I stopped to rest
> I felt like everything was closing in on me again.
You know, I don't think this was just you.  My friend and I had similar feelings,
and not being sober found them very difficult to deal with.  The atmosphere was
all wrong and there were far too many people.  It was hot, grimy, and all together
not very pleasing.  I should have taken the hint from the weapons search on the
way in.  What kind of idiot brings weapons to a rave?  (Or anywhere for that
matter).


> As for the music?  Well, I spent very little time in the hard core room, so
We got in around 1am or so and personally I thought the music sucked for most of
the night.  The only redeeming feature was the Godzilla movie they were playing
on the tent top.  I spent most of my time watching it and dealing with not so
pleasant vibes.

> Whoa.  That was one BIG complaint.  I'm sorry it was so negative.  I'm sure
> there were plenty of people who had fun.  I just wasn't one of them.  Maybe
> I'm just lame or maybe I need to take another break from raving.  Maybe I
> should just stay away from big commercial raves.  I just wish I could have
> gotten a few more supportive hugs.  I'm very tired now and I'm sure you are
> all quite tired of my rambling complaint.  bye all d8)
Ditto.  I think this is the worst rave I've been to.  It wasn't all bad, and I
met Giamma around 3am or so and then we chilled out at The Endup afterwards which
was very enjoyable.  (Thanks Giamma).

I think I'll avoid large Raves with weapons searches in the future.  Especially
when it's $25!  (I figured it was Halloween, so what the heck).

Later Kids... :)

--Randy

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 07:39:17 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 7:31:36 PST
Subject: Re: KPFA campaign

> 
> > Mykl suggested that we (the list) campaign in favor of the show and I
> > think that's a great idea but when and how should we do it? ... 
. 
. 
. 
> Immediately.  The sooner the better.  You should definitely find out
> from Steve her name and phone number.
> 
> Each of us should use one of two strategies, as applies.  Either:
> 
> 1)  Hi, I've been a subscriber to KPFA for n years, and I would
> very much like to see a program devoted to techno and house.
> 
> or:
> 
> 2)  Hi, I'm not currently a subscriber, but would definitely pledge
> to become one if you scheduled a program devoted to techno and house.
> 
> You get the idea.  After 30 or 40 calls, Steve's as good as on the
> air. 
. 
. 
. 
> - MykL G
> 

 I talked to a person with advocate experience, and she recomended that 
letters are much more effective than phone calls. It shows that the letter 
letter felt strongly enough about the issue to take the time to write a   
letter . Also, getting a whole load of phone calls would probably be very
annoying if this lady doesn't have an answering machine. And, some people
come across better in a letter, since they have time to carefully consider
their words. 

i			That's my opinion!

					Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com
  
-- 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 11:33:50 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 10:52:45 PST
Subject: Re:  Caspar/Sharon


> As for the music?  Well, I spent very little time in the hard core room, so
> I don't know much about that.  I watched Jeno for a little while.  Garth, to
> my surprise, did not mix last.  And, while he is my personal favorite, I have
> to admit that he was not as good as usual.  Perhaps it was because he was out
> of his element time-wise.  There was another strange surprise after Garth.
> At about 4 or 5 in the morning, sandwiched between two lovely slices of house
> (by Garth and Thomas), this dj from England (E-Lustrious or something like 
> that) spun an hour or so of techno.  Some of it was pretty hard core.  Now,
> don't get me wrong, I like techno, but not at 5 in the morning and not
> between Garth and Thomas.  IMHO, it would have been better to skip the techno
> (since there was a room with only techno anyway) and have more Thomas.  

I didn't go to Casper/Sharon, but I talked to two or three of the DJs the
afternoon before it, and they said that the promoters had no clue about what
any of the DJs sounded like or what order to have them play in, etc.

The day after Sharon, I read Brian's post about the incredibly long line that
wasn't moving at all.  Supposedly the Sharon people were expecting 8000 people
to show up.  And they had two entrances to the event.  Let's try some simple
math here.  Suppose your ticket people are pretty efficient and can sell a
ticket to a person in ten seconds.  So each ticket person sells six tickets
a minute, or 360 tickets an hour, and if there are two lines, then that's 720
tickets in an hour.  So if they were expecting 8000 people to show up, it would
take 8000 / 720 = 11 hours to get everyone in the door.  Real fucking clever.
(Toon Town avoided this problem for their New Year's Eve party last year by
selling tickets through Bass.)



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 13:38:58 1992
From: peren!toybox!markb@uunet.uu.net (Mark C. Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 13:08:16 PST
Subject: Re:  techno record stores...

i didn't realize that Underground was dicking anybody over...i live right
down the block, so i guess i was trying to hype my neighborhood.  (come
visit san jose, people) q8)

sorry...i'm not having the best luck with suggestions. d8(

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 13:42:03 1992
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 13:18:27 -0800
Subject: MXX Minutes

'120 Minutes' on MTV last night had a new Shamen 'Ebeneezer Goode' video --
very fast-paced editing and rather more enjoyable than I expected.  
Something of a switch from 'Move Any Mountain,' where the video was a bit
of fluff and the tune was great.

The word from ne-raves and elsewhere is that the Utah Saints/Shamen tour
is going quite well.  We're getting only the U.Saints in Portland, from
what I can tell, I'm not sure what is happening to the Shamen for our
date.  

Have a great time at Community and beyond, everybody!

phred
Member #32143 of the Rave Diggers Union

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 13:48:03 1992
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 13:35:18 -0800
Subject: The World Beyond


If you thought things were bad at Casper, consider how lucky we are that
the rave scene is as healthy as it is in SF.  Here's the latest from the
ne-raves pipeline . . .

>From jna@silver.lcs.mit.edu Mon Nov  2 13:24:10 1992
To: ne-raves@silver.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: mask-a-rave WHAT?

Satuday was NASA's mask-a-rave, held at a club in downtown NYC. Apparently
the rave was sponsored by sony music (opr so my contacts at CMJ tell me) and
CMJ carted record weasels in by the truckload fo experience a "real rave"

Lighting was your typical  intellabeam setup, and it basically was a rave-by-the numbers.

It wsa almost as if sony sat down and said "oh, we need a rave because techno
is an up and coming music genre" and had one.

Live acts included Moby screaming into a microhpone over a DAT deck and
faking playing both keyboard and octapad drums (without their power cables
connected , please note) and Altern-8. I didn't stay for Altern-8
becuase I can't stand them. 

All and all, a horrible time, right down to the person standing on stage
trying to be frankie bones, screaming "hardcore" and "rush" while they
played sesame's treet at +8... STUPID; PLAIN STUPID.

Maybe if he wasn't eating the mic we could have even understood him.

Oh well, can't win them all.. there wasn't even a vibe.
Maybe it was all the CMJ types making it hard on us..

--John



From normals@well.sf.ca.us Mon Nov  2 14:37:44 1992
From: The Normals <normals@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 14:36:59 -0800
Subject: last night a DJ saved my life!


Whew - close call!  The Intrepid Ravers were all set to go out Saturday
night, and even though we knew casper and sharon were combined [Caron?] we
decided to grit our teeth and go since it was in town and they had all the
DJs.  We really got a late start [after hanging out in the castro, having
dinner, and coordianting everyone's plans] and by the time we got to the
Caron parking lot, the line was enormous and not moving at all.  [course we
should have known.  there wasn't a toontown, so all the tooners went to caspar,
and we've never been into the big mega raves...  I don't know what we were 
thinking.  We'd also been tipped that the cover was going to be $30... 
so anyway, we turned around, stopped by home to grab this week's RAVE GUIDE 
[a big <SMOOTCH!> to Vitamin B for the good work!] and hit the road for 
Santa Cruz.  Lighthouse 2 was goin on when we got there, no line [course 
it was probably 3 by then] and real good energy.  Lots of people dancing 
inside, and outside Space/Time was set up with projections and a DJ 
spinning some nice chill out music.  Unfortunately the visuals were pretty 
lame, lots of 70's playboy nekkid women, bleah.  [Don't get me wrong, 
I love women, but I prefer more ambiguous visuals.  I want to go where I 
feel like going, not have someone elses thing shoved down my throat.  
Goddamn het boys. This only encouraged me to look at my friends and the 
other dancers, though, so oh well...]  The crowd there was really friendly, and we recognized some familiar faces from the recent FMRs and Freedom Harvest.
A highlight of the morning was meeting paul@cruzio.  Hi Paul!  
SO we hadn't been there long when Carlos started spinning.  I haven't seen
him for a while, and last night [uh, saturday] ;->  he was absolutely spot
on.  Unbelievable!   I've been a Carlos fan since Creation, but we hadn't 
seen him for a while.  We're not waiting this long again!  I'm going to 
be following Carlos around for a while, so no disrespect to the Brit contingent but I'll be where Carlos is spinning [why do the DJs _always_ seem to come in
sets?  Some kind of package deal?]  He was doing amazing things with the Mighty Ming [that "hoo hoo huh huh" song] that I don't have the knowledge to explain.  Phenomenal!  Well, I'll stop babbling, and say "Support the Santa Cruz Scene!"


see you in the future...
- M

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 11:23:19 1992
From: sybase!dit@sun.com (David Trumbull)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 10:25:24 PST
Subject: Casper....

Well, after my homie got arrested for being stupid, my ride's sister taking off
with his car for 3 hours leaving us at a completely dull party, and countless
other bad adventures, me and Kuba - the only party person still awake - made
it to Sharon after we discovered it was right down the street where we were
waiting till morning came so we could get Dylan out of jail in the morning.

^^^ The worst sentence in sfraves history.. Sorry..

Anyway, they were still charging $20 at the door, but luckily I saw a familiar
face that glided us on through. The beats were slamming, and the knuckleheads
were out in force - it seems like the hip activity for cock-diesel frat types
is to hang out all day at Golds and then go to raves at night to take their 
shirts off and wander around like everyone should worship their manly
physiques. Lord have mercy. I went to a room where the tribal beats were
slamming and plopped down in front of a bass bin after 2 futile attempts at
getting my feet moving. This was the anti-rave yea and the 'we want to party
and get FUCKED UP and flaunt machismo' crowd took my whole trip.. 
Us men can be such ridulous difficult creatures, eh? 
My only positive comment about 'the event', 'the rave', 'the fiasco'
is: that warehouse was a great space! Sorry I didn't see any of u for +vibes 
there, because it seems like we needed them. Anyway, until next time 
'we are family' and don't you forget it. 
-- 
  Superhigh            \       Lookin for that good stuff... 
 dit@sybase.com        /        ...better tighten up on your backstroke. 
  Backstrokin'        /		    

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 13:38:58 1992
From: peren!toybox!markb@uunet.uu.net (Mark C. Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 13:08:16 PST
Subject: Re:  techno record stores...

i didn't realize that Underground was dicking anybody over...i live right
down the block, so i guess i was trying to hype my neighborhood.  (come
visit san jose, people) q8)

sorry...i'm not having the best luck with suggestions. d8(

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 15:40:02 1992
From: zdross@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 13:49:45 -0800
Subject: Basics

Basics... well it was pretty fun for the most part.  I would agree with Mike
that the space, although great, was too big for the number of people, leaving
alot of open space.  The crowd was pretty good, that is I didn't get many
funny looks when i would pat people on the shoulder and say "hey" or
whatever.  

I went with alot of friends, one newcomer, and we all had a pretty good 
time there.  I am still looking for a followup to the incredible Destiny
rave....sigh.

Sorry to hear about the Casper and Sharon fiascos.  Let's all just go to
the smaller raves from now on!

Glad to hear Alt-2 was successful, will try next time.

Later

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 16:52:32 1992
From: PGRASSI@scuacc.scu.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 16:37 PDT
Subject: basically

after the long haul out to vallejo i needed some spiritual boast from
the like of basics to pull me into the morning hours, the space was odd,
a dim, cavernous cube w/metal cable running the perimeter, so much for
reclining against the walls.  After tony's bass trembling set, it was josh
who put down an amazing progressive house/tribal set that was just inspiring.
between wafts of smoke at the panel, this guy looks like the assured 
surgeon flipping in an out of difficult beats with grace and poise, just
great.  jeno had a flock of hands and faces leaning over the board, and
truly the most energy was here in this space of ten or so yards, next to
the board.  i walked into the carlos set at the caspar/sharon and found
only one, two people next to him, low energy, carlos: sedate.  much in
contrast from the crowd engaging charisma i've come to expect and enjoy
from him, he played la bamba, and for some godforsaken reason, it sounded
really good this particular evening, than a speaker goes, and the damn
thing comes to a standstill.  it resumes but in the lull, i check out
ghost next door.  it was really fast in the what, zoom room, and good god
o fortuna next to night of the living acid?  but where to go?  This space,
to it's credit, it a gem, large, high ceilings, great acoustics, and for
this reason, i managed, for a hour or so to have a splendid time in the 
company of a few good friends.  I took off early, content that i had danced,
and head off.  if their was drinking i wasn't aware, but what i was aware
of was a handful, if not dozens to hundreds, of people idling sitting about,
not dancing, funny i found this at basics to an extent as well.  sharon, we
can understand, but basics?  maybe next time
pgracious

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 17:19:30 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 16:35:47 PST
Subject: Yes on Letters yo KPFA

Hi Gang!
It was great seeing so many of you at Lighthouse II!
I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.  It certainly
had our unique Santa Cruz twiet to it--and the after-
party at Cowells Beach was fun, too!  Thanks Craig et
al!
I've just recuperated from a hernia operation and the 
rave was the final step in my healing/therapy process;
dancing has always been like that quote from Body of
Light that Larry's been ending his posts with: "Listen
carefully to the music and dance like a flower."  For
me music--and particularly rave music--has been like
a deep physical, mental, psychological and spirutual
healing/growth process--and as the night at Lighthouse
wore on I could feel all those energies opening up, much
like the opening petals of a flower. (Aside: I'd love
to see some of the visuals from Disney's "Fantasia"
at a rave.  Aside 2: you know, of course that sacred
substances influenced much of the art and concept
for that film, don't you?  Read the book on it!)

Which brings me to my main point (You can probably tell
that I've just finished a great day back at Santa Cruz
High and I'm in the teacherly mode again: reading and 
writing, i.e., to KPFA.  A brief letter is worth ten or
more phone calls.  That's always been the rule in PR and
most campaigning.  I've done a good amount of both over
the years and I couldn't agree more with Larry.  A short,
pithy letter can be written in five minutes (it's just
like a darn post, after all!) stamped for 29 cents and
sent off post haste.  A letter is a more impressive and
permanent document and--as I said--inevitably counts
for more.  Some people like to have someone set up a form
letter for them, but this is simple enough that I don't think
you all need one.   Now, what's their address....?
Peace ravefully no matter what happens matomorrow!
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 17:34:42 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 17:25:10 -0800
Subject: locations!  locations!


	This is my official call for location suggestions for Connection 2 or
for Ravenic 2 (Ravenic being the first SFRaves picnic in May).  I would
really like to find an outdoor park in San Jose or elsewhere in the Bay
Area South where we could get a permit to have loud music.  Rain would be
a worry, of course, but I think a daytime event is really something we
could use next.  As for Connection 2, since it's getting really cold at 
night, let's try and find a good indoor space - if you know someone who
owns a unique and safe warehouse, or know of a disused shopping mall, or
anything like that, let's go for it.  Jon suggested the Trocadero, and
I like that idea... also, has anyone ever dealt with or knows someone
in the air force?  Just a question... ;)

	Brian


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 17:36:28 1992
From: peren!toybox!markb@uunet.uu.net (Mark C. Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 13:40:19 PST
Subject: Re:  Caspar/Sharon

leah says something that i completely agree with.  if people are not
gonna get it and abuse the good things you get from cool people at 
raves, they shouldn't be there.  too much violence and taking advantage
of people at raves by jerks lately...

bums me out. d8(

BTW, i am moving to apple on wednesday, so i'm gonna disappear for a
little while...i would still like to meet some sfravers...if anyone
lives in s.j. mail me before wednesday if you feel like it.

BTW again...didn't go to SHASPER...i mean CARON...TOOOOOOOO big...oh 
and no ride. hee hee q8)

-mark. d8)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 18:19:51 1992
From: The Normals <normals@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 18:06:44 -0800
Subject: Re:  Rave Flyers

randall@soda sez:

>>What are the names of some of your favorite rave flyer artist?


Hate them all!


vandall

heh, heh.  Sounds impartial to me!  I suppose you're a flyer artist
yourself, right?

-M

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 18:53:32 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 18:43:51 -0800
Subject: The telnet port is now 24-hours


Well, I got up the confidence to ask the sysadmin at haas if I could actually
run it, and he said sure, so the site is now official and will run 24 hours/day.
Remember to get to it:

telnet haas.berkeley.edu 7283

(7283 = R-A-V-E - hokey, I know ;)

	Try it!

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 18:54:59 1992
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 18:47:45 -0800
Subject: Rave flyer artists..

My nomination is Ammon of Rythmos.. he's done some very good
 flyers..
-Chris.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 19:27:04 1992
From: Mark Joey Chan <mc4o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 1992 22:19:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Caspar/Sharon

What kind of asshole thnks he can to that to anyone?  Jeez.  That's one
time when violence  is almost warranted.

mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 21:40:39 1992
From: kevink@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Kevin T. Kruzich)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 00:25:30 -0600
Subject: Re: raving in Austin

Hi people!

My name is kevin and i am from ....austin...texas (egad! #$% Texas?).  i
wanna know if any of you have friends in austin...if you do...who are
they...what are their addresses...? and what do they think of setting up a
rave mail group in austin...?  

...is this list strictly for san-fran-sis-cans... or are there foreigners
on the list as well? 

the raving here seems to have only picked up recently...i am not sure if
the austin definition of rave fits the sf definition....by reading some of
the stories posted it is obvious there is no comparison...then again you
are in sf and this is austin which is mostly a live music scene....this
includes anything/everything from blues, country, folk, jazz, et cetera, to
decadent punk.  

rave is young in austin... yet is growing qwikly...

...anyhow...is there anyone on this list  out there who might be kind
enough to save my address and give me word on anything that may be relevant
to this area ?  ...i cannot handle the volume of mail i am rcving and i may
have to sign off the list soon...not that i don't like it...just that most
of the discussions concern action in sf.  so pleez someone hook up with me
before i bail...i need some san fran contacts and pen pals... 

...one more thing before i go...would there be another person yet Kind enuf
to record their idea of ...hardcore on some tapes if i sent?  

thanx.
peace.
luve.
flowers.
madness.
ciao.
bye...

kevin...

        "At this moment (time), you should be with us,
        feeling like we do, like you love to, but never will again.  I miss
        you, my dear Xiola.  I prepared the room tonight with Christmas
        lights, a city of candles.  Fresh Sheets.  We are all filled with
        dense clouds that have us sleep (?).  I need to touch your skin."





  
   ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~....

  Kevin T. Kruzich              
  4516 Avenue B                    
  Austin, TX. 78751     
  (512) 454 5190                   
  
   kevink@emx.cc.utexas.edu   

   ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~...................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 22:18:22 1992
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 22:11:56 -0800
Subject: Re:  Rave flyer artists..

second here for Amon of Rythmos.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 23:00:44 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 22:54:25 -0800
Subject: Soda may be on the fritz tonight...


Because we're moving to a new machine in a different room.  Since soda's
address is changing as well, there may be some mail problems for a couple
days until the new address is propagated fully.  If you get a bounce from
soda, or you think your message has disappeared into the abyss, send your
letter to sfraves@medisg.stanford.edu and it'll be sent out as usual.  Just
thought you all would like to know...

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  2 23:46:02 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 23:26:06 -0800
Subject: FYI - "Grave" rave in Milwaukee  - READ THIS NOW


Here is a compilation of posts from alt.rave recently about a Halloween rave
turned BAD, worse than I've ever seen.  

Article 4129 of alt.rave:
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Path: agate!ames!decwrl!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!anthrax.cs.wisc.edu!palmer
From: palmer@anthrax.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Palmer)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Rave Busted
Message-ID: <1992Nov2.170919.17504@cs.wisc.edu>
Sender: news@cs.wisc.edu (The News)
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
References: <1992Nov02.084037.26709@mixcom.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 17:09:19 GMT
Lines: 19

    MILWAUKEE (AP) - Police took more than 900 people into custody during a
Halloween raid early Sunday at a warehouse where alcoholic beverages were sold
without a license.
    Police Chief Philip Arreola said the vice squad raid followed months of 
investigating reports of unlicensed sales of alcohol.  Many of the partygoers
were underage drinkers, he said.
    Sponsors called it a "grave party," he said.
    Police confiscated alcohol, marijuana, "44 marijuana pipes, 81 small 
cylinders of nitrous oxide, assorted pills and admission tickets," Arreola 
said in a statement.
    "Over 900 individuals between 13 and 40 years of age were taken into 
custody" for violating a municipal ordinance forbidding patronage of an 
unlicensed establishment, he said.  The ordinance carries a penalty of $325.
    "Arrestees were from Wisconsin, Illinois, New Hampshire and Minnesota,"
he said.  "All were well-mannered and cooperative with the arresting officers.
All were issued citations and released."


Wisconsin State Journal - 2 NOV 92


Article 4146 of alt.rave:
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Path: agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!anthrax.cs.wisc.edu!palmer
From: palmer@anthrax.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Palmer)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Rave Busted
Message-ID: <1992Nov2.223511.28087@cs.wisc.edu>
Sender: news@cs.wisc.edu (The News)
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
References: <1992Nov02.084037.26709@mixcom.com> <1992Nov2.170919.17504@cs.wisc.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 22:35:11 GMT
Lines: 81


Milwaukee Journal - 2 NOV 1992 - Page A1

(Leader)     'Rave' party raid

(Headline)   $300,000 fines possible for party planners

(Sub-header) More than 900 who attended Halloween bash fined $325

(Byline)     By ANNE BOTHWELL of The Journal staff

     Four people arrested for organizing a massive "rave" party were expected
to meet with representatives from the city attorney's office Monday to discuss
their case.
     About 900 people received $325 citations at the party in a warehouse at
710 W. Virginia St. on Sunday morning.
     The citations were issued for aiding and abetting a person in charge of
an unlicensed public place, and permitting consumption of an alcoholic 
beverage.
     The four organizers, who are being held in the City Jail, each face fines
of $325 times the number of people cited at the party - as much as $300,000
apiece.
     The main organizers are believed to be a 30-year-old man from West Bend,
who was arrested at XLC Hair salon, 830 N. Plankington Ave., and a 23-year-old
man from Madison, arrested at the party.
     Also arrested were two women - a 26-year-old from Bloomington, Minn., and
a 19-year-old from Minneapolis - who are believed to be assistants to the two
men.
     Also Monday, the city attorney's office was to consider whether to cite
security guards hired by the organizers for their role at the party.
     What was supposed to be the party of the season for almost 1,000 people
hoping for a clandestine Halloween costume party turned into the biggest raid
in Milwaukee history Sunday morning.  The raid came after months of 
surveillance and undercover work, police said.
     Undercover police who attended a rave party two weeks ago estimated the
crowd there at somewhere between 800 and 1,500.
     Sunday's party featured faucets that poured out Kool-Aid, Halloween
decorations, throbbing music and a light show.  "Smart drinks" - mixtures
of amino acids and other natural ingredients, usually in a fruit juice base -
were served for $3 a glass.  Touted as energy enhancers or mind clarifiers,
the drinks' powers are debatable.
     Before 5:30 p.m. Saturday, a taped message on a special rave hot line was
telling callers that party information would be given after 5:30 p.m.  The
message also billed the evening as a "Grave," and promised "oogly googly
phantasmagoric" fun and frights.
     After 5:30 p.m., the answering machine message gave instructions to the
"map point" - XLC Hair salon.  
     The taped message warned partygoers not to form a line in front of the
salon, or the map point would be closed down.  Ravers also were told they would
have to produce identification at the map point and at the rave.  They would be
searched for weapons at the party site, and gang colors would not be allowed.
     "This is a peaceful rave," the message ended.  "Peace, love and we're 
gonna Grave your world."
     Despite the message's warning, by 10:30 p.m., a huge line stretched down
Plankington.  Around 11 p.m., the salon opened, and a security guard let 
partygoers inside, in groups of six to eight at a time.  In return for showing
identification and handing over $10, participants got a bright red ticket with
black and gold lettering, and a white sheet of paper with directions to the 
party, police said.
     An officer stood in line and purchased a ticket.  Then he and others
testified before Judge Jeffrey Wagner, who issued search warrants for both the
party site and the map point.
     Between 75 and 80 police officers simultaneously descended on both 
locations.  At the hair salon, proceeds and tickets were confiscated.
     Inside the warehouse, police turned off the music, turned on the lights
and began separating people into groups.  Boys on one side of the room, girls
on another.  People without identification, and people from out of town were
separated further.  Most of the men were handcuffed with plastic flexi-cuffs.
Most of the women were not, said Anita, an 18-year-old woman who was among
those cited.
     Police found people from Illinois, Minnesota, and New Hampshire.  Charter
buses brought loads of partygoers from Madison.  All received $325 citations.
     Almost all the partygoers were well-mannered and cooperative, Capt. Donald
Domagalski said.  Those who weren't were immediately lead outside into police
wagons.
     Police confiscated alcoholic beverages, along with more than a half-pound
of marijuana, 44 marijuana pipes, 81 small cylinders of nitrous oxide (laughing
gas), assorted pills and admission tickets.  There was less alcohol on the
premises than police expected.  None was being sold.

(Endline)  Reporter Kevin Harrington contributed to this story.


Article 4163 of alt.rave:
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Path: agate!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!quads!disc
From: disc@quads.uchicago.edu (Little Fluffy Cloud)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Rave Busted
Message-ID: <1992Nov3.054514.1800@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: disc@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Something fatal.
References: <1992Nov02.084037.26709@mixcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 05:45:14 GMT
Lines: 49

I was there.  Here is the truth.  There were THREE fire exits.  This was an
organizad narcotics investigation.  It was also a SETUP.  Let me explain:

At 1:30 AM, police entered the wwarehouse, guns drawn.  They took all people
at the front of the warehouse (closest to the front entrance) and pinned 
them against the wall.  They proceeded to cuff them, and everyone alse in the 
warehouse, with zip cuffs.  Boys and girls were separated.  Each person was
searched at least once.  All names of those over 18 were taken down, purporte
dly to do checks for "outstanding warrants."  I do not believe that any names
were actually checked.  It was jsut to buy some time and piss everyone off.
Each person from Milwaukee who was over 18 was given a $325 ticket for:

"Aiding and abetting person in charge of unlicensed public place permitting
consumption of alcoholic beverage."

It took over 2 1/2 hours for most people to get written up.  All 18+ people 
from outside Milwaukee were threatened lots with jailtime but were eventually
released.  Those under 18 or without identification were taken to jail for
fingerprinting searches.  Bail for those over 18 (without ID) was $325, or 
they spent up to 24 hours in jail.  Those under 18 were fined (get this)
***$55*** for the same charge that I was fined $325 for and $55 for curfew.
950 people were present.  200 people went to jail.  The police were rude and
disorganized.  People were taken to jail for simply asking questions.  People
were pushed and physically abused for no apparent reason.  I, personally,
had been zip-cuffed so tightly that one of my hands turned red.  The officer
told me that he was "going to put the cuffs on loose."  If I wiggled out, 
he would put them on "tightly."  When my hand turned red, another officer
cut that cuff off, but left the other one on, also excruciatingly tight, 
for me to "wiggle off myself."  That hand still has a bruise on it.

The only beer bottles I saw were the following: 2 7 oz bottles (open) of
Miller Genuine Draft which Nick had behind the DJ tables, and at least 4
bottles, which a narcotics investigator pulled out of the location's mailbox.
Considering that Grave Rave security (DICKS) were searching (according to
the map, whose directions SUCKED) for "bottles and metal objects," I
have reason to believe that the cops planted the bottles there to initiate
the seizure in the first place.


FIRE CODES IS BULLSHIT.  The fire marshall is the ONLY person with authority
to close a party for fire violations.

FUCK THE POLICE.  This whole thing is BULLSHIT.

Another thing, I don't understand how Mr. Math comes up with 325*1000 as being
over a million bucks...it's more like 325*800+55*1150+55*150

=Jerry Dischler=|Little Fluffy Cloud|=disc@quads.uchicago.edu=



Article 4157 of alt.rave:
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Path: agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!maxwell
From: maxwell@fnalo.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Rave Busted
References: <1992Nov02.084037.26709@mixcom.com> <1992Nov2.170919.17504@cs.wisc.edu> <1992Nov2.223511.28087@cs.wisc.edu>
Sender: nobody@ctr.columbia.edu
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 03:22:48 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Nov2.212248.1@fnalo.fnal.gov>
Lines: 38
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov2.223511.28087@cs.wisc.edu>, palmer@anthrax.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Palmer) writes:
> 
> Milwaukee Journal - 2 NOV 1992 - Page A1
> 
> (Leader)     'Rave' party raid
> 
> (Headline)   $300,000 fines possible for party planners
> 
> (Sub-header) More than 900 who attended Halloween bash fined $325
> 
> (Byline)     By ANNE BOTHWELL of The Journal staff
> 
>      Four people arrested for organizing a massive "rave" party were expected
> to meet with representatives from the city attorney's office Monday to discuss
> their case.
>      About 900 people received $325 citations at the party in a warehouse at
> 710 W. Virginia St. on Sunday morning.
>      The citations were issued for aiding and abetting a person in charge of
> an unlicensed public place, and permitting consumption of an alcoholic 
> beverage.


I hope that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who got fined  *challenges* their fine.

If the fines aren't challenged, the fascists will be emboldended.

If the fines *are challenged, all 900 of them, one at a time, the fascists will
be humiliated. 

Some of you might consider active legal counterattacks. (Sue the city, cops
etc.)

Don't forget to send Ben Masel your Narc pictures.

Please don't give the fascists a free ride on this one.

regards.max  




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 10:09:57 1992
From: ids-kd@garnet.berkeley.edu (Sheryl and Janella)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 09:58:27 -0800
Subject: basics

well, being as I have not yet seen a comprehensive review of Basics, I'll
make it my duty to write one...
Cost: $15 (of course)
Dj's:  Some really good spinning, especially from Tony and Garth (but then
again, I am biased)
Being as I really don't know most of the names of the tracks I can't tell
you what they played (other than We are Phuture), but I could sing them for 
you if you wanted....
Space: Kinda wierd--a warehouse-type space at Solano County Fairgrounds.  It
had potential to be good, but....the speakers were too far apart (on opposite
sides of the warehouse) which meant that the energy wasn't concentrated--
people were dancng all over, instead of together--and also there was no
place to be quiet and chill.  Also, it was a litle too loud-couldn't really
talk.
Energy:  Not the usual basics energy--I felt like people we're really being
not as community-like as usual--too many drugs?  no concentrated dancing
area?  I don't know, something was a little off.  But the crowd was good-
pretty hard core.
All in All:  A good rave, but not the best ever, and not what I expected
from a basics.  I had a great time cuz I was with good friends and likd
the music, but like I said, the energy was off.  The best part was the 
morning, as garth is spinning away some funky grooves and the light stats
coming in these huge windows up top...really cool.
To Mike from Twitch--THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
(i wuld've sent that to you personally, but I don't have your address)
To Mike of the blinking light--good to meet you finally
To all--keep up the energy and the love, hope to see you soon (but I'm
trying to take some time off....)
		:) janella :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 11:17:38 1992
From: dicanoxes <watanabe@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 11:05:51 PST
Subject: Re: sf DJs in foreign lands

Someone (MykL G, i think) wrote this (so dont blame me!):

> I spoke to Robbie's girlfriend yesterday -- he and Scott were in Toronto
> on Friday night, and Robbie's gone on to gigs in Michigan and Chicago.
> 
> So it's the LA promoters who are not to be believed (sur-prise!!!)

funny thing about that is that the promoters gave out the numbers to moby's
agent and the airline company that the prizes (tix to london) were through
and a couple other numbers so that people could call up and verify
that they were real

i thought it was kinda cool, but they still lied
of course it was only about a dj, and those have to be pretty 
unconfirmed most of the time..

 ,
dana

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 13:53:52 1992
From: Steven Collins <stevie@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 13:45:46 -0800
Subject: re: Milwaukee bust

SHIT...Milwaukee is very near where I'm from.  I was hoping to check out
the scene there when I went home for thanksgiving, but maybe not...

Steven.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 14:24:09 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 12:16:05 -0800
Subject: Things to Come (was re: Milwaukee bus)


Sisters & Brothers,
	We need to prepare ourselve for the possibility of this happening here.
It could happen at any time.  we should remember the following.


	1) Our strength is in our numbers and the fact that we are
	   NON-VIOLENT.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not much of a proponent
	   of non-violence in all cases, sometimes you need an AK-47
	   but not in this case.

	2) If this should happen here, and they start taking people off to jail
	   AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE SHOULD GO.  In otherwords if they want
	    to bust a rave and cite 2000 people then they should be prepared
	   to arrest 2000 people and take them to jail,  we'll just have
	   one hell of an after party!

	3) Don't let people go to jail in isolated circumstances, make
	   sure there are plenty of witnesses.  Get badge numbers if you can
	   write them down or learn how to remember them.

	4) Don't resist or fight the police, you'll only get hurt and it'll
	   give them an excuse to charge you with something.

	5)  If this happens at a rave that you are attending, DUMP YOUR 
	   CONTRABAND ASAP but be descrete, don't let some officer see you do it.
	6) If we go to jail, the rave should continue, what else can they do to
	   us.

	7) Plead not guilty and demand an individual trial by jury.  Let them
	   pay for 2000 seperate trials.

I was talking to a friend who went to their first rave (Freedom Harvest)
the other week.  He saw some parallels between the rave scene and the early days
of the Clamshell Alliance.  Maybe we need to start training ourselves for the
inevitable confrontation.  Some of the the things that CA did like Affinity
Groups seam to parallel the rave "families" or "Nations".  Each person in the
group had a purpose. Some people avoided getting arrested so they could get bail
money together and communicate to lawyers and other support people on the outside.  Most CA activist had a certain amount of Non-violence training.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 14:35:55 1992
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (X)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 15:30:20 MST
Subject: That ole 48hrs Episode...

Remember the big huge thread that started out with talk of 48 hours
at a couple raves and doing a possible show on drugs 'n' stuff...

Did that show ever show?  

-- 
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 16:17:41 1992
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.uu.net (P. Couch)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 15:01:12 PST
Subject: FWD: [Congressional OTA Study Request]

I got this in the mail.
Kinda long, you may press D now....
P.

----- Begin Included Message -----

>From uunet!thehulk!dmc.com!munroe Tue Nov  3 14:30:21 1992
X-Listname: DMCONNECTION-INFO-L@DMC.COM
Sender: uunet!DMC.COM!munroe
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1992 15:24:36 EST
From: uunet!DMC.COM!munroe
Reply-To: uunet!DMC.COM!munroe
To: dmconnection-info-l@DMC.COM
Subject: FWD: [Congressional OTA Study Request]
Content-Length: 7673

My apologies to the people off shore that get this, but...

For the folks in the US, here is your opportunity to help set policy in the US 
for the uses of technology to help provide services and eliminate [some] 
bureaucracy:

[...]
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:26:38 -0600
From: "(Frank Odasz)" <franko@BIGSKY.DILLON.MT.US>
To: Multiple recipients of list COSNDISC 
<COSNDISC%BITNIC.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Congressional OTA Study Request

To: Consortium for School Networking members

From: Frank Odasz, Director of Big Sky Telegraph
      franko@bigsky.dillon.mt.us

RE: I'd like to invite everyone interested to respond directly
to my Internet ID (above) regarding the following congressional
request for input! CoSN members can be particularly helpful with
the POLICY questions toward the end of the list! Please feel free
to disseminate the following.

Congressional input for this study can also be forwarded to Tom
Grundner at Cleveland Freenet - telnet 129.22.8.76 or telnet
129.22.8.75. Tom's voice number is 216-368-2733. Tom is focusing
on gathering urban input while Big Sky Telegraph is gathering
rural input. EVERYONE is invited to contribute to this study.
Feel free to add your own questions and answers and/or to answer
the listed questions in whatever manner suits you.

     CONGRESSIONAL OFFICE OF TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT STUDY AND
                 WESTERN'S BIG SKY TELEGRAPH
          CONNECT ELECTRONICALLY TO CITIZENS FOR INPUT.

The US Congressional Office of Technology Assessment is
conducting a major study and has contracted with BIG SKY
TELEGRAPH of Western Montana College to solicate from citizens
suggestions regarding the potential of information technology to
allow the Federal government to be more responsive to rural and
small town America in the dissemination of Federal services and
information. BILLIONS of your tax dollars are spent each year
disseminating Federal services and information!

THE CHALLENGE:
"Electronic technologies might reduce the need for some layers of
bureaucracy, help bring government services more directly to the
citizens, and, by so doing, provide better services more
cheaply."

One goal of this study is to determine if citizens CARE enough to
respond to the opportunity to advise congress DIRECTLY, if given
the opportunity. This IS YOUR opportunity! The hope is that
grassroots input will provide innovative ideas and approaches.

EVERYONE interested is invited to respond to ANY or ALL of
the following questions and engage in online discussions with any
of the other participants. Access to Big Sky Telegraph is
available at no charge using a modem at 406-683-7680. Select
M)essages from the Main Menu, then select the USCONGRESS
conference. Big Sky Telegraph's voice number is 406-683-7870.

The conference will be held from September 1 - December 1, 1992,
solicating online written comments and opinions from teacher,
student, and citizen users of Big Sky Telegraph. All messages
will be printed and included as appendices to the study. A
summary 30-40 page double-spaced report from Big Sky Telegraph is
due in draft form Nov. 9, the final report is due Dec. 18, 1992.

PLEASE share your views on the following questions, and feel free
to ask your OWN!

1. What are citizen needs and desires for the electronic
   services?

2. If the appropriate technology were in place, what would
   citizens like to be able to DO and how would their lives
   improve?

3. What are the opportunities for improvement in the productivity
   and efficiency of service and information delivery?

4. What problems might arise with both service provider and
   citizen acceptance of electronic delivery?

5. What might be the requirements for education, training,
   and equipping of recipients?

6. How would electronic access impact users who are senior
   citizens, or disabled, or who live in rural settings?

7. What might be the requirements for training of service
   providers?

8. What services that are reasonably representative of the types
    of Federal services provided to small towns might be best
    suited to electronic delivery?

9. What services and technical applications might highlight
   opportunities for innovation in service delivery?

10. What are the prerequisites of successful implementations with
   attention to facilitators and inhibitors of innovations?

11. How might the services, delivery mechanisms, and related
    policy/management frameworks be redesigned?

EDUCATIONAL APPLICATIONS:  What should the federal policy
be with regard to supporting K-12 and other educational
applications using computer networks?

1. What computer network or information services could the
  federal government provide access to which would make our
  K-12 schools better?

2. Does the federal government have an obligation to provide more
  than access to services, must it also insure equitable access
  to these services for all schools and provide the necessary
  training to use these services effectively?

3. Should the federal government have a responsibility to assist
  in corporate and business training programs, or should it stop
  at the K-12 or college levels?

POLICY QUESTIONS: (These questions may be too technical for some
people.)

1. What might be the requirements for the government
   telecommunication and computing technology infrastructure
   needed to support electronic delivery, including appropriate
   technical standards to ensure systems compatibility and
   interoperability?

2. What consistency of electronic service delivery innovations
   exists with the current policy/management framework?

3. What policy/management changes that may be needed to implement
   technology-enhanced service delivery to rural/small town
   America?

How could electronically delivered service applications be
implemented to take into account the following policy/mangagement
considerations?

1. equity of electronic access to Federal services

2. protection of citizen privacy in Federal record systems

3. prevention/detection of fraud, waste, and abuse in program
   management and service delivery

4. protection of the security and integrity of systems used for
   electronic service delivery

5. appropriate retention and archiving of records and information
   related to electronic service delivery

6. consistency with annual and five-year agency planning for
   telecommunications and information resource management

7. relationship to agency automation programs and activities

8. relationship to FTS2000, NREN, and other Federal information
   technology programs

9. opportunities presented by electronic service delivery for
   synergy/economies of scale across Federal agencies/programs,
   across Federal/State/local levels of government

10. opportunities for cooperation with the private sector
    (service providers, computer/telecommunications providers,
    profit and nonprofit)

11. opportunities for telework, telecommuting



Frank Odasz                      \   /    ^     IMAGINATION
Western Montana College, Dillon, - O -   / \  ^  is more important
MT, 59725 Voice:406-683-7338     /   \ ^/~~~\/~\  than knowledge.
Fidonet: 1:346/3 Fax 406-683-7493     / \    \  \ -Albert Einstein.
Internet:franko@bigsky.dillon.mt.us  /   \    \  \
>->>>>>>----Big Sky Telegraph-406-683-7680--1200b,8N1--->



------- End of Forwarded Message

--
Dick Munroe				Internet: munroe@dmc.com
Doyle Munroe Consultants, Inc.		UUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe
267 Cox St.				Office: (508) 568-1618
Hudson, Ma. 01749 USA			FAX: (508) 562-1133

GET CONNECTED!!! Send mail to info@dmc.com to find out about DMConnection.


----- End Included Message -----


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 17:37:17 1992
From: Todd J Sines <tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 20:30:03 EST
Subject: aphex twin et al...

today i called Rephlex Records in London... Grant, the other half of rephlex
(along with Richard D James of Aphex Twin/Pac Man/Dice Man) gave me some great
news that i would like to share with you about the above people.

>>
Analogue Bubblebath Vol 3 is coming out. it is a 6 tracker and it is on Rephlex
records in London. Richard James has released this under the <<AFX Twin>> name.

keep in mind that the name APHEX TWIN is licensed only to R & S Records and
Mighty Force UK Records. so look for it as AFX.

>>
the aphex twin has three more releases to go under R & S records. the didgerido
EP and the Xylem tube EP, along with the selected ambient works double album
fulfill 2 of the EP requirements and he was supposed to release one full album.

>>
richard d james only did one <<Dice Man>> track. the others on vivatational
records were someone else who called themselves the Dice Man. Grant confirms
this, so don;t get the two confused. the track he did do was "polygon window,"
and he was not responsible for such songs as "system error;" naming your band
after another is a ploy to get consumers to purchase their tracks which the
unsuspecting buyer thinks is some white label or ultra rare copy. for instance,
the "earth" ep by a fake LFO> when i interviewed them they said never have
heard of the track and they said that it happens often. people will buy these
even though it isn't the same person.

>>
rephlex records have released the following groups: black dog. /  a.r.t / b12 /
kosmic kommando / caustic window.
the kosmic kommando 12" is on clear vinyl, no labels. it is in a thin paper
sleeve and it has the name, address, etc stamped on the front. inside it has a
little paper slip with the label mates, etc. they have an aphex twin t-shirt,
dog tags, and other assorted goodies available soon.

>>
i will post more info as i get it. grant is sending me an information pack and
some stuff, so when i get it i will gladly post it....

thanks



>>grating the pristine sine wave with the noise filter

sines

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 22:33:21 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 22:22:50 -0800
Subject: President-elect a closet raver?

In his victory speech tonight, our brand-new fearless leader said
something totally remarkable, perhaps a coded message of support
to us SFRavers.  I quote verbatim:

	We need more than new laws, new promises or new
	programs.  We need a new spirit of COME UNITY, a sense
	that we're all in this together.  If we have no sense of
	COME UNITY the American dream will continue to wither.
	Our DESTINY is bound up with the DESTINY of every
	American.  We're all in this together and we will rise
	or fall together!

I'm surpirsed that he didn't go on by mentioning the GATHERING
together of all parts of our society.  ;^)  At least he has that
VISION thing sorted...

Now if he'd only talk about humans instead of just Americans...

- MykL G

P.S.  I have the speech on tape, in case anyone wants to sample it...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov  3 22:51:24 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 22:40:35 PST
Subject: Re: President-elect a closet raver?

I can't make it to come/unity :( ... I hope everyone has a great time. ;)


My comment on the election:

no more years.



thank god.


-H-













--

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 03:36:42 1992
From: nineball@mica.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 03:27:29 PST
Subject: Disaspar/Sharon

JUST in case not enough has been ranted about this rave, and
just in case anyone was seeking a reality check, this was for
myself and my rave partner, also one of the very worst raves on
record in SF.

Many problems, including the crowd just having sort of
a hyper energy permeating the whole place.  No sense of community,
no sense of people really getting off or getting into the groove.
Deafeningly loud with no place at all to go for a rest, compounded
by the fact that we could not find any space with anything but
hypercore techno, no ambient room or house or anything.... Three or
four separate DJ's/spaces, sometimes with nothing more than a
curtain separating any given two; music bled from one space to
another with no less than three separate beats all conflicting at
at least one location.

EVEN by 4am when we got there, it seemed to be Peckerhead-O-Rama.
>From what we saw, this seemed to be the truest of the commercial grab the
major zorks$ and run setup - looks like they got 4 sound systems,
a couple of screens, a laser truck pulled up to a loading dock doing
the cursive "SHARON" writing stuff, a bunch of vendors, no ambience,
no chill room, ran out of water (being sold, of course), and not
much thought put into anything.

Gee, you'd like to think they might not get the bucks, that people
would prefer things like Basics or whatever.  Nope, thousands inside
(4000? Anyone? Anyone?) with a rumored 2-3000 turned away (!) at
$25 a head.

Barf.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 06:58:57 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 6:37:15 PST
Subject: Little Rock Rave

Maybe MykL G has it right about our president-
elect Arkansas traveler being a closet raver:
that looked like quite an allnighter they had
in Little Rock (even the town's name fits); now
someone should do some sampling/dubs/whatever of
Fleetwood Mac's "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow,"
the song they played as he and Albert Gore were
pumping hands.  Perot's choice of Patsy Cline's
"Crazy" as his swan song/theme song also has
great potential for raving!
Peace ravefully'
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 08:24:05 1992
From: Bryan S. Campbell <campbell@voyager.jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 08:18:10 -0800
Subject: Re:  Things to Come (was re: Milwaukee bus)


Geoff White writes:

>7) Plead not guilty and demand an individual trial by jury.  Let them pay for
    2000 seperate trials.


   Hmmm...  Well, Geoff, I _totally_ agree with everything said before this 
statement, and only partially agree with this one.  I do believe you should ask
for a separate trial, as is our right, but I don't think you should do it on
the basis of making them pay for it.  This is bad logic...  WE are the ones 
that will wind up paying for the trials, not the police.  WE will wind up paying
for more officers to controll the crowds, etc...  

   I do believe we should avail ourselves to better "What to do if you get
arrested" techniques though...

Bry

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 08:46:59 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 9:41:37 MST
Subject: aphex twin et al...

Sines:

> rephlex records have released the following groups: black dog. /  a.r.t / b12 /
> kosmic kommando / caustic window.

Is this the same Black Dog that was on the Give Peace a Dance II?  Any idea if
they are stomping around the states right now?  Just the other night, I drove
past a local live music club and they had "Black Dog" on the marquee.
Sometimes this club gets really good stuff (Pato Banton is coming), but most
of the time they don't.  I'm starting to fear that I missed something I
shouldn't have.

I keep telling myself that "Black Dog" could be a common name, but I can't
convince myself.  Has anyone heard of any other bands with that name?
Preferably some progressive rock crud that I don't care about?

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 11:47:01 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 11:33:15 PST
Subject: Bye, George!


Come/Unity was inspired last night, no doubt due to the election results.
I'd guess at 50% more people than usual, and still energetic at 4:30
when I left.  Anybody who's been to one can imagine how it was, just
add a ton of happiness and another ton of freedom, freedom from the
Republican shackles.

I had gone to the Democratic Victory Party in the Fairmont just before,
and after Feinstein and Boxer gave their victory speeches, they
played "We Are Family" and the crowd there was as happy and friendly as
a rave...

I'm optimistic about a Clinton administration, esp. in contrast to
the last 12 years.  Despite reservations about some of his stated
positions, I think he'll be bringing much better advisors (bye Quayle
Sununu, Watt, Meese, et al), appointing better judges, not vetoing
progressive legislation, and in the very least, turning the country
in the generally right [proper :)] direction.  The challenge is to
do it right so that people realize that Reagan-Bush conservatism
was a disaster we never want to return to, so that it becomes as
discredited as apartheid, fascism, slavery, etc.  (well, I guess
it wasn't THAT bad, but it still bore significant similarities),
so that we can build a more progressive majority.

-Derek

________________________________________________
 Derek Chung                    Oracle Graphics
 dhchung@oracle.com               (415)506-6195


Here comes the sun
Here comes the sun and I say
It's alright

Little darling, it's been a long, cold, lonely winter
Little darling it feels like years since we've been here
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun, and I say
It's alright

Little darling, the smiles returning to their faces
Little darling it seems like years since it's been here
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun, and I say
It's alright

Sun, sun, sun, here it comes

Little darling, I feel that ice is slowly melting
Little darling, it seems like years since it's been clear
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun, and I say
It's alright

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 13:09:54 1992
From: hortonee@violet.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 12:48:18 -0800
Subject: alternity


finally got back on line.  had a good time at alternity.  

i found a hand-held fan in the corner just before leaving, if you know
someone who lost one, contact me (hortonee@violet.berkeley.edu).

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 15:40:34 1992
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.uu.net (P. Couch)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 13:49:58 PST
Subject: Ding Dong! The bush is dead! The bush is dead! Ding Dong! The wicked bush is dead!

Too bad I missed Come-unity. I forgot to check my calendar with all
the anxiety from the Hershensen lead on boxer and etc.
Here is a bunch of bush quotes I got from the mail.
Clinton/Gore probably won't be as funny. 

P.


----- Begin Included Message -----
Subject: Dan Quale may have over shadowed him, but Bush still comes up with some----- Begin Included Message -----


<><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

 Edition : 2695               Friday 30-Oct-1992            Circulation :  7694 

    ***	 Given this grand and glorious opportunity, we submit for your	***
    ***  amusement a slew of Bushballs that were collected by Dean De-	***
    ***  Harpporte (Minneapolis, MN, USA), from the book "Bushisms"	***

    "We're enjoying sluggish times, and not enjoying them very much."

    "It's no exaggeration to say the undecideds could go one way or the
    other."

    "I've told you we don't live and die by the polls.  Thus, I will
    refrain from pointing out that we're not doing too bad in those
    polls."

    "And I would say to those out around the country. `Take a hard look
    now: don't let that rabbit be pulled out of the hat by one hand and
    25 other rabbits dumped on you in another.'"

    "I've been talking the same way for years, so it can't be that
    serious."

    "I saw a story the other day that I went a little ballistic - which
    is only part true - semiballistic."

    "I mean, I think there'll be a lot of aftermaths in what happened,
    but we're going to go forward."

    "The Democrats choked the throttle - pulled the the throttle back
    of a slowing economy while they hunted for every last morsel of
    partisan advantage."

    "I will never apologize for the United States of America, ever.  I
    don't care what the facts are."

    "Those are two hypo-rhetorical questions."

    "Please don't look at part of the glass, the part that is only less
    than half full."

    "I once got some advice that `If you want a friend in Washington,
    get a dog.'  We took them literally - that advice, as you know. 
    But I didn't need that because I have Barbara Bush."

    "You cannot be President of the United States if you don't have
    faith.  Remember Lincoln, going down on his knees in times of trial
    and the Civil War and all that stuff.  You can't be. And we are
    blessed.  So, don't feel sorry for - don't cry for me, Argentina." 



----- End Included Message -----



----- End Included Message -----


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 16:44:38 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 16:16:04 -0800
Subject: Bye, George


	Well, I was SO HAPPY about last night's election that I simply
_could_not_ stay at home internetting, so I decided to go out to Come/Unity.
I was slightly tired when I got there, and this being a weeknight and all
I didn't want to partake in any sacrament.  So I figured I'd get a few
hours of dancing in and leave.

	Boy was I wrong.

	The crowd was incredibly energetic, number of people was just perfect,
and, "the music was fantastique".  Jeno was laying down an incredible set,
and I *had* to dance.  My first 45 minutes to an hour were spent on top of
the corner speaker gyrating my life away.  (The subject is in reference to a 
fantastic sign brought in by Geoff to last night's Come/Unity that he hung up 
over the crowd).  I like the way they had the space laid out - they had a stage
set up, where at most raves I would imagine they would place the DJ.  Instead
they placed the DJ in front of the stage, so that the DJ was always surrounded
by dancing people, and those on the stage (including myself) could show off to 
the world how much we were enjoying the music.  At one point before his set,
Garth was up there dancing with us.  Sweat dripping down me, I thanked god 
for in's and out's.

	After coming back in I decided to check out the chill space, which was 
the first of many future chill spaces to be done by Malachi and Richard Sun.  
Very interesting, to say the least.  They combined sitar music with some live
spoken-word pieces, with samples of Terence McKenna, some random not-
necessarily-ambient-house-ambient music.. and the setup controlling this was 
placed inside a wire-frame pyramid.  Very odd.  The beanbags were great, the 
people were great (had a very cool conversation with Moonpup), and I went
back-and-forth between fast dancing and chilling several times.  

	The music ended around 6:30 or so, and the sunrise on the drive back 
was GORGEOUS.  I even stayed up for a little bit and drove around location
-hunting...

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 17:29:39 1992
From: steve@mtxinu.com (spiral freshness)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 16:26:30 -0800
Subject: Oops, silly me..

	 Did anyone happen to find a black denim jacket with a tape of
	 house music in the front pocket at Alternity2?  I was so fatigued
	 and hot when I left I forgot it.  Please mail me if you have any
	 info. 
	 Thanks..
-steve

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 17:29:55 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 13:26:17 PST
Subject: Re:  aphex twin et al...

Pete Ashdown laments:
> I keep telling myself that "Black Dog" could be a common name, but I can't
> convince myself.  Has anyone heard of any other bands with that name?
> Preferably some progressive rock crud that I don't care about?

Black Dog is a band that only plays covers of old Black Sabbath and Three Dog
Night tunes.  They're quite groovy.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 18:50:06 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 15:05:24 PST
Subject: ???

> Plead not guilty and demand an individual trial by jury.  Let them pay for
  2000 seperate trials.


> Hmmm...  Well, Geoff, I _totally_ agree with everything said before this 
> statement, and only partially agree with this one.  I do believe you should ask
> for a separate trial, as is our right, but I don't think you should do it on
> the basis of making them pay for it.  This is bad logic...  WE are the ones 
> that will wind up paying for the trials, not the police.  WE will wind up paying
> for more officers to controll the crowds, etc...  

Well, I agree with Geoff totaly because even though it's OUR tax dollars, THEY
only have so much of it and that's divided up into what we all know as a budget.
Also, lately in these hard times people are getting more aware and concerned with
where tax money goes.  If all those ravers made this bust cost a lot and show that
it was unwarranted in the first place someone could get in a lot of trouble over
what they thought was a cool plan to bust ravers.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 19:58:34 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 19:42:44 -0800
Subject: thanks....


to everyone who sent me a hug.  That cheered me up more than you can even
know.  I promise to write individual thanks to everyone as soon as my
Anthro midterm is over (Friday - yay!).  I was so glad to get those hugs.
They put me in a good mood, which I definitely needed after Sat. night.
d8)  =)  I'm off to study, study, study.  Thanks again....

always, leah

ps. Mark at CMU - I will write you a long letter as soon as I can.  I'm
one big stress ball right now, so a letter wouldn't be too interesting.
Talk to you soon......


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 22:36:39 1992
From: Genesis P-Orridge <genesis@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 22:27:31 -0800
Subject: Re:  please add us

Well! He won, do you feel better NOW!
Yr resident Alien, who cannot vote
gen
32

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  4 23:36:08 1992
From: Genesis P-Orridge <genesis@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 22:18:46 -0800
Subject: Re:  Shamen Nov 7 -afterparty..

Its supposed to be at CLUB O, 11th & Folsom, co-ordinated by thee Floppys,
thru Connie.
LUVZYA! Gen

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov  5 02:16:25 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 02:06:57 -0800
Subject: a qurey


	anyone know how yo get in touch with connie?
	she's the one doing global rhythm festival on 19 december.

rocky
(ps replys to caliban@ucscb.ucsc.edu)


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov  5 05:20:13 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 05:05:13 PST
Subject: Re:  Weekend Update

	yes!  either a warehouse or a bigger club like townsend or the
	trocadero (or even the king st garage)...  we can DO THIS!  and if
	whoever wound up taking the UV paint murals home can bring them to
	hang as banners in our future rave space, that will be Way Cool...


I think King St. Garage would be a good place for connection but It wouldn't
be big enough.  We would have to charge $10 or more to cover the cost.

I would expect A LOT of people to show up for C2 since all of the folks that
I talked to had such a great time at Connection (many have said that Connection
was the BEST rave that they  have been to!).  I would also like to keep
C2 all ages.  For alot of people who are discriminated against because of their
age (they can vote for the one who will send them off to get killed in a war
but they  still can't rave after 2:30) and I think this would eliminate King St.

Hey Maybe we should target C2 for Inauguration Day!  A good way to inject some
positive energy and hope into a new administration.  Now that Clinton is in
it is STILL UP TO US to build the kind of country that we want to live in.
Personally I don't think that Clinton will be that much different from Bush,
he's a Company man so to speak, but he will hire more enlighten and intelligent
people to fill his sdministrative positions.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov  5 11:02:06 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 10:53:00 PST
Subject: Re: This Week's Rave Guide


Here's something on Friday, with an amateur-looking black-on-blue card stock
flyer.  Note that studies have shown NO correlation between quality of
flyer and quality of rave, in fact a slight but insignificant negative
correlation seems to exist.

Just Add Water
	Screaming Cat Productions
	visuals by Pure
	true productions
	Mr.Curb's Smart bar
	caffeine machine
	BPM
	Featuring the spinning magic of: 
		Carlos
		The Rhythmist
		DJ Axis The Animator
		and special guests
	Friday, November 6th
	For location call:
		(408)272-2627
		(415)755-8315

________________________________________________
 Derek Chung			Oracle Graphics	
 dhchung@oracle.com 		  (415)506-6195

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov  5 14:23:55 1992
From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 15:15:02 MST
Subject: Eye Our Sea - IN PROGRESS

I'm sitting on IRC at the moment with Klorox and so far nobody is showing up.
These speakers are going to waste!  Get on here now!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov  5 15:53:21 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 16:23:58 MST
Subject: Telnet link to IRC

Folks, the rave is raging.  Telnet to bradenville.andrew.cmu.edu if you don't
have an IRC client.

Gotta get back to the floor.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 02:31:21 1992
From: Renfield E. Feinstein <ren@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:18:18 -0800
Subject: Tha Bomb

True Soul event in Berkeley:  The Union Crew and Superb Productions
presents THA BOMB 2, thursday november 12, 8:30pm  Cal students and guests
DJ's Money Matt spins true hip-hop, dancehall, and old school funk,
and in the next room. . .
DJ Mix-C blasts tribal, techno, and deep house
at the Bear's Lair -- corner Bancroft and Telegraph, U.C.Berkeley
18 and up, bring your CAL id
Dance hard. Peace.

From normals@well.sf.ca.us Fri Nov  6 08:16:44 1992
From: The Normals <normals@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:14:53 -0800
Subject: Re:  This Week's RAVE Guide

We talked to Whale Song people at Come Unity and they are in fact having it
indoors at the Troc.  Oh well.  They're really disappointed - they said the
rains washed out access to the beach and they don't think they can get their
gear in and out.

*ALSO*
I just got word of a small beach party down at half moon bay tonight with
Carlos spinning.  I didn't get a flyer, just the number, so you can ask at
Ameba for more details.  Here's the number:415.755.8315  There was also a
408 number that I was too spaced to get [thought it wouls already be on the
list I guess... sorry!]  Anyhow, the Intrepid Ravers will be there with our
own tent!  It's light grey with red trim - come say Hi to us if you go to
this one!

see you in the future...
-M
ps we will also be at the Shamen.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 08:43:21 1992
From: The Normals <normals@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:36:10 -0800
Subject: do what you want to do

Ok, I was a little hasty with my last posting - the beach party is of course
Just Add Water which larryc posted the full flyer text of.  Thanks, Larry
and we'll see everybody there and at the Shamen!  So who all is going to the
Shamen, and where is everyone else going?
hugs, and we'll see you in the future!
- M

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 14:04:15 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 13:55:11 PST
Subject: Meat Beat Manifesto

	I just read on r.m.industrial that MBM is on tour with Orbital and 
Ultramarine.  Didn't MBM play here not too long ago?  Anyone heard if this
tour is coming here?

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 14:31:12 1992
From: Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 14:23:25 PST
Subject: Meat Beat Manifesto

>	I just read on r.m.industrial that MBM is on tour with Orbital and 
>Ultramarine.  Didn't MBM play here not too long ago?  Anyone heard if this
>tour is coming here?

last time they were in SF was mid-1991.  (sometime between may and
july, i think.  can't remember for sure anymore.)

if they don't play here, i will kill somebody.  (of course, i've
already seen them 5 times but so what...)

Jon Drukman (God's personal DJ)                 uunet!sco!jondr   jondr@sco.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 15:26:14 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 15:11:36 PST
Subject: Re: Meat Beat Manifesto

Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic said this.  Or a big stinking cow.
> 
> >	I just read on r.m.industrial that MBM is on tour with Orbital and 
> >Ultramarine.  Didn't MBM play here not too long ago?  Anyone heard if this
> >tour is coming here?
> 
> last time they were in SF was mid-1991.  (sometime between may and
> july, i think.  can't remember for sure anymore.)

Yes, I saw this show in Portland.  They were with Consolidated.  I
thought they'd been around since then...

> 
> if they don't play here, i will kill somebody.  (of course, i've
> already seen them 5 times but so what...)

This should be a great show...I love MBM, and Orbital and Ultramarine
are pretty good too, IMHO.  (except Chime...)

-H-


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 17:35:31 1992
From: cornhead@netcom.com (Jeff Miller)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 17:20:57 -0800
Subject: So: What's Hot Ticket Friday?


So what's going on tonight? The rave guide of Nov. 4 doesn't list much. I have 
plans for Sat night so I'd like to find something fun to do tonight!

-cornhead

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 17:35:39 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:41:28 -0800
Subject: Re: do what you want to do

> Ok, I was a little hasty with my last posting - the beach party is of course
> Just Add Water which larryc posted the full flyer text of.  Thanks, Larry
> and we'll see everybody there and at the Shamen!  So who all is going to the
> Shamen, and where is everyone else going?
> hugs, and we'll see you in the future!
> - M
> 
I'm going to WICKED tonight with a friend who this will be her first rave.
I'm going to Shamen tomorrow but don't have a ticket yet.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 17:55:01 1992
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:44:46 -0800
Subject: VR collaboration


Howdy folks, I was chatting with one of the folks at BPM (Jeremy)
while wearing my virual reality the movie t-shirt and it seems that they
just got a whiz bang 3-d recording device and are looking to collaborate
with someone on 
a VR space with aural 3-d. Didn't get a heck of alot of info but if your
interested you can send me the pertenent info (phone # or whatever) and I'll
pass it along next time I'm there (I live within walking distance) or 
get in touch direct.

Hey if this works into someting for any VRers out there (if there are any)
I want to see it when its ready for demo.

Gil

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 18:53:08 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 18:48:30 -0800
Subject: meat beat manifesto


	i think i saw them a few years back
	did they have weird dancers in foam rubber
	costumes in ths shoe?  it was at one step beyond.

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 18:58:43 1992
From: caliban@ucscb.ucsc.edu (tempestual geometry)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 18:55:26 -0800
Subject: housing


	anyone want to move into a room in the castro-ish
	asap?  $two-seventy-nine/month.  call 252.9234.

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 23:41:04 1992
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 23:36:32 -0800
Subject: Alcoholic Fog


I went by Alcoholic Fog, I mean, Purple Fog on thursday
night (they were located at 150 Folsom). 

They wanted $20 to get in.  

But wait, there's more!  Beer is included in the price. 

Yes, it's true: this man has no -- I mean, this "rave" had
free beer. 

(I didn't go in.)


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov  6 23:47:14 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 23:43:11 -0800
Subject: Re:  Alcoholic Fog

>But wait, there's more!  Beer is included in the price.

Damn, they should have Pete Ashdown promoting that.  He gives away free
X at his raves.  :):):)

	Brian, just being delirious.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov  7 04:35:57 1992
From: gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 04:30:01 PST
Subject: mail volume solutions



(not exactly rave-related but perhaps relevant to the list...)

	so i'm signing up on a few more mailing lists and considering the
volume of mail coming in from sfraves alone what i'm planning to do is
write a little script to scan my mail for me and sort it into separate
files (sfraves, futureculture, etc.) so it doesn't all get blended
together. Anyway before starting i thought i'd just ask y'all if someone
has already done this, or if there's some obscure (or maybe not so
obscure, i'm a little new at this) command or option that already exists
to do this.
			
			blearily staring at awk&grep&sed mans,
			Gregg
			gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov  7 11:20:23 1992
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 11:14:04 -0800
Subject: Future Shock:DONT LET IT HAPPEN TO US!

   Now that the Clinton upset has began to sink in..I think it's time
for all of us to start thinking about how we might be able to
contribute more effectively to society.Perhaps we might..in lieu of
a full fledged Conference with a capital "C".. just schedule
a meeting in which we, as the "peak experience contingent"
might influence positively the process of national recovery..
Perhaps,in the process,we might even change people's impression
of the rave scene...
 How does a picnic,in a central location such as GG park sound..
with all interested members of the community invited...
-Chris.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov  7 12:37:17 1992
From: lorne@netcom.com (Lorne Covington)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 12:29:17 PST
Subject: Re: mail volume solutions


> 	so i'm signing up on a few more mailing lists and considering the
> volume of mail coming in from sfraves alone what i'm planning to do is
> write a little script to scan my mail for me and sort it into separate
> files (sfraves, futureculture, etc.) so it doesn't all get blended
> together. Anyway before starting i thought i'd just ask y'all if someone
> has already done this, or if there's some obscure (or maybe not so
> obscure, i'm a little new at this) command or option that already exists
> to do this.
> 			
> 			blearily staring at awk&grep&sed mans,
> 			Gregg
> 			gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu
> 

I got a very nifty package off of one of the usenet news source newsgroups
called 'procmail'.  Allows you to do quite sophisticated mail sorting and
processing.  It's undoubtedly on an ftp archive somewhere, but if you can't
find it I could send it to you.
						- Lorne

"Time enough to sleep in the grave."


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov  7 13:13:10 1992
From: Todd J Sines <tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 16:02:15 EST
Subject: Cosmic Trip in Cleveland last night...

last night was cosmic trip in cleveland. this is gonna be kind of long cause i 
am incredibly bored at the computer lab and i don't feel like studying.

mike brown shows up at my house around 6:15. we listen to the new moby single 
and fuck off for a bit, then we embark on our journey to get mike's contact 
lens case. 

we go to his house. i log in and check my mail. meanwhile, he is playing th 
remix of debbie gibson's electric youth--> i just now realize that altern8 used 
the same 303 line in armageddon. wow.

we are then on our way to the continent, a mall at the northern tip of columbus 
that has a bunch of little shops and expensive clothing stores. we immediately 
go to sunsports, and all of us (mike brown, myself, and titonton duvante--my 
roommate and bandmate) are peaking out on the t-shirts they have... a bunch of 
split, fresh jive, stussy, world industries, and other skate companies.. we try 
on this shirt that shirt.  titonton gets this dope split shirt.. i say, "that 
shirt,, is something else..." mike and i get the same FJ fresh jive shirt 
except his is tan and mine is black. after all of that, we then get some food. 
i had a indian combination platter. mike has a steak sandwich, and titonton 
eats hush puppies.

FINALLY, after titonton is done gawking and chasing after a bunch of high 
school girls (he is 21), we get on 71 north and make our way up to cleveland. 
we listen to the tapes that david applegate sent of mark e quark from san diego 
mixing.. god, that guy is smooth.... i am rather impressed. 

because of titonton's silliness, i have to give him the "johny cuts" nickname 
because all he does with the cassette is cut back and forth between the am 
noise and the cassette. it sounds really live, but it is funnier than anything. 
mike brown get the "curly-b" nickname for his little dreadlocked curls... 

we arrive in cleveland at 11:45. i go up and hear a bunch of dope breakbeat 
techno. guess who is spinning>?  dieselBoy.... we say hi, etc... i haven't seen 
the mf for over three months... it feels good..

i meet up with a bunch of my old friends from high school... as well as some 
guys from olmstead--kevin cunningham. he is such the raving nut. few people are 
as silly as he is..

i also see kelly pickens, who is damian's girlfriend. i can't believe how happy 
i was... seeing old friends, etc

i also met a whole bunch of new cats.. hooked up some lucrative deals for a 
rave in december at a children's palace...

i realize how FUCKING GOOD damian is.. he has been mixing for the most, maybe 6 
months. doesn't own his own decks (this was the guy who thought he was gonna 
mix with a few CD players a few months ago) and he is one of the smoothest dj's 
i have heard there. in fact, i can't think of seeing a better dj at the smart 
bar. he is THAT GOOD. 

the night went on and on...i danced like fool with titonton--> this includes 
giving him a piggy back ride, stealing each others winter hats, rolling on each 
others backs, rolling around on the floor, having mock seizures, and acting out 
all of the songs... 

>>WE ARE DUMB!!!<<

otherwise, i meet up with tareq from cas western reserve, i meet marla kammer 
(again) and also golden boy from the cleveland Free net.. talk to a lot of 
people about our shit, their shit....

god, what fun i had...

before we knew it, it was 4 am and people were exiting the club... mike brown 
got a few pictures of us during the night...we said our goodbyes and went on 
the road back to columbus (sucked cause it was snowing again..) and we 
eventually got back in columbus at 7 am. mike spent the night and i had to work 
at 11 am. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

i had probably one of the best times in my life. there was such a good vibe 
going on, it was unbelievable. the music was the shit, the people were 
generally happy, and it seems like cleveland and ohio for that matter could 
hang with having more of these positive events as such...

thanks and peace to:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
damian higgins ** little al'x ** mike brown ** kris kersey ** kelly pickens **
sarah ** danielle ** hal evey ** tareq  ** golden boy ** marla kammer **
titonton duvante ** all the mother fuckers out at the smart bar last night...
and all of you out there in net land for the inspirations and

peace and lovism-


sines
----------------------------------------------enhanced--body release-----------
----------------------------------------------todd sines--614.299.9529---------
---+------------------------------------------tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu-
----------------------------------------------384 e17th ave columbus oh 43201--

From tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sat Nov  7 14:45:00 1992
From: Todd J Sines <tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 17:38:35 EST
Subject: body release and enhanced

those of you who have been interested (even a little) in body release in the 
past should read this:

the past few months have been very TURBULENT in the status of body release. a 
brief history:

my last official posting about our band was probably about the demo tapes that 
we made. we were also attempting to get gigs out of state, some on the west 
coast, some on the east coast, texas, canada...etc.

what has happened since then:
(the agony of body release)

we played on 24 july 92 at the smart bar in cleveland, ohio to a crowd of maybe
600 or more... we got jipped $100 cause we played two extra songs (and 
therefore, according to the owner, lost her crowd). we then played the 
following wednesday at 700 on the day of the cleveland lollapalooza, so we had 
maybe 100 people show up.

the next week, we played in ft wayne, indiana. the crowd was about 200. we had 
the worst set of our life cause the sound fuck head was too interested in 
creating little zig zag patterns with the mixing console and graphic 
equilizer...turning up microphones and stray lines we didn;t use to create even
more noise... etc. the day after, we were about to play at the monster rave in 
chicago, which, coincidentally got busted, so we went home.

on the 28 of august 92, mel ske dred booked orgas from akron and us to go play 
at the r tyme / final call rave. it was hyped as being a three day rave, it was
gonna be really fucking big, huge, 20,000 people. etc..and when we got there, 
the total amount of people during the day amounted to about.....
40 people.

we went home, one guy in our band was cooked from all the acid he did, and he 
was a total turtle laying on his back in the sun....(read as *USELESS*) so we 
had to drive the entire trip from WISCONSIN (we were about 10 minutes from 
there) to columbus, ohio between my ex girlfriend amy and i... it sucked.

we then played 10 sept 92 at the metropolis. we were booked with playing with 
orgas again, plus dj's mike gallicchio and kevy kev were coming up from 
cleveland to spin that night as well. well. about 75 to 100 people showed up, 
the promoter didn;t do barely any promotion and didn't pay us, as well as the 
same cooked guy remembering as we drove into cleveland that he forgot his 
disks in columbus. and one of the dj's showed up at 1:30, after the entire
thing happened...he was pulled over...

things were not looking good. we had some really lame ass gigs and we weren't 
concentrating on the demo tape at all. i neglected to send posts about what the
state was for i had figured it would just be a few more days or weeks and then 
everything would be alright.

our next gig turned out to be a smash. we played in a bar called cedar's in 
youngstown on 25 september 92. we have i think near 400 (maybe a little less) 
and the crowd was really into the music that was going on...which always feels 
good when you consider the show to be really lame. we had such a hellish ride 
there and we were really pushing our limits on our way back...

shortly before this gig, we recorded a live DAT of our stuff. we had been 
waiting to record a few more songs, but it seems like an eternal wait...

i then decided that it would be the best time for me to quit the band.. i was 
fed up with all the shit that mike did, and i was tired of doing all the work 
with loading, packing, promoting when other people were getting high and 
ripped.

so for a while, i was out of the band and i was determined to do something. i 
had been waiting for a chance to do something else other than the usual.

then i started to reevaluate my judgement... i thought that i was really 
trashing a lot of stuff and a lot of good possibilities. working with these 
guys brought a lot of anger between us, but so many good things came out of 
it.. i really liked playing with them and it made me feel good.

titonton then bought a juno 106 with a 3 tier stand. concurrently though, his 
ensoniq eps has been in the shop for well over a month... so we haven't been 
able to do too much without it. we have been using our korg dsm-1 a lot for 
charles' stuff, and i am getting my esq.1 next week. which helps out A LOT>>

so our demo is still up in the air, i would like to get more shit going on.. 
and one of the guys keeps his interest only if the band is gonna get 
signed...otherwise, it is back to his crack and other drugs. we had thought of 
attempting to replace him with someone else but we are just mainly concerned 
with getting our shit back together in an orderly fashion, smoothly, and we 
want to begin our quest of making our music accessible to more people. this 
includes playing out more and getting our stuff released (someone said they 
heard that we were signed to PLUS 8...haha. not us...) so this is the topic 
being addressed..

i guess i want to contact some people on the east coast area, as well as people 
in chicago to hook up with about promoters as well as labels. i know that radio
play would be good too, so there you go...


sines

----------------------------------------------enhanced--body release-----------
----------------------------------------------todd sines--614.299.9529---------
---+------------------------------------------tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu-
----------------------------------------------384 e17th ave columbus oh 43201--

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov  7 17:40:43 1992
From: rth@netcom.com (Robert Hughes)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 17:28:39 -0800
Subject: Re:  Alcoholic Fog

I dropped by at about 12:00 and they had lowered the price to $10, but there
was still only about 10 people from what I could see. Too bad, it's a fairly 
cool looking location, and a good sized space, not too big, not too small ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov  7 19:40:56 1992
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 19:30:42 -0800
Subject: Re: mail volume solutions 


I'm not familar with procmail, so I can't comment on that
one, but in my experience, the way you deal with this
problem depends on the mail software you use.  

I don't know what's recommended if you use the generic unix
"mail" program, but if you use "elm" (which is currently
recommended at Stanford), there's a program called "filter"
that works with it (and maybe some other software too?).
Try a "man filter" to see if you've got it.

If you use the mh commands (as I do, using the mh-rmail
front end that works inside of emacs), then I'm the guy to
talk to.  I can show you the simple scripts I've been using
to file sfraves mail in it's own special folder.




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov  7 20:04:19 1992
From: "Carl A. Wescott" <eyethink@cse.ucsc.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:54:50 -0800
Subject: procmail (Was: Re: mail volume solutions) [GEEK ALERT ;^)]


>>>>doom@leland writes:
>I'm not familar with procmail, so I can't comment on that
>one, but in my experience, the way you deal with this
>problem depends on the mail software you use.  

GEEK ALERT below!  Hit 'n' now if you already know or don't 
care.

I haven't been following this thread (ironically enough,
I trashed it :) so forgive me if this is redundant.

Kjell Post just taught me to use procmail...  Here's what it
does and how to do it:

Procmail will let you sort incoming mail automatically.  
I use it to filter out certain types of mail, as I will soon demonstrate.

	(1) Change your .forward file (replace eyethink with your name):

	$ cat .forward		
	"|IFS=' ';exec /usr/public/bin/procmail #eyethink"
	$

	(2) Unless it's already there, do a mkdir $HOME/Mail.
        You'll also need to make subdirectories (in my case,
	they're $/HOME/Mail/rave, $HOME/Mail/personal, $HOME/Mail/junk,
	etc)

	(3) Set up a .procmailrc in your $HOME directory.  You can copy
	mine to play with if you want to; read the man page in 
	/usr/public/man/man5 if you want to know more about it.
	Here's an excerpt from my .procmailrc:

	#-----------------------------------------------------------------
	# Please check if all the paths in PATH are reachable, remove the 
	# ones that are not.

	PATH=$HOME/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb:/bin:/usr/local/bin:
	MAILDIR=$HOME/Mail	# You'd better make sure it exists
	DEFAULT=$MAILDIR/mbox
	LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from
	LOCKFILE=$HOME/.lockmail

	:	# Anything administrative goes to Mail/junk
	^From.*(melissa|sheehan|virginia|rosry|marcia|gerri)
	junk

	:	# Facilities meetings, seminars, copy cards, keys, CEFs...
	^Subject.*(facilities|seminar|card|key|cef)
	junk

	:	# sfraves mail goes to Mail/rave
	^To.*(raves)
        rave

        # [...] various music mailing lists etc deleted

	:	# Everything sent only to me goes in personal
	To.*eyethink
	personal

	# Anything that has not been delivered by now will go to $DEFAULT
	# using LOCKFILE=$DEFAULT$LOCKEXT

	(4) If you want mail notification you can do the following in bash:

	$ export MAILPATH=$HOME/Mail/from?"You have new mail."

	I don't know how to do it in csh.

	(5) Put mailstat -s ~/Mail/from in your .bashrc so you get
	a message on unread mail when you log in.

Hope this helps... It really would be a lot easier if we had
a digest option.  I enjoy the list but don't feel the need
to read posts more than once a day.  (except when FMRs are
announced! :)

Carl

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov  7 21:47:56 1992
From: cornhead@netcom.com (Jeff Miller)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 21:35:40 -0800
Subject: Rave tape avail: DJ y-not


My roomate asked me to post this about a month ago. My fault for not posting.
By now he has a few tapes with different songs available as well, always 
evolving.
 
Personally I love it, and I'd love to hear a set like this at a rave! 
Alas y-not just moved here from Detroit and is fairly low-key about 
promoting himself so I haven't had the pleasure yet. He is available 
though, personally I am hoping to hear him at an sfraves event :) 

-cornhead

---------------------------cut here, as they say-----------------------------

PLANET EARTH - the tape.
____________________________________________________________
* mixed by dj y-not of san francisco and detroit.
* slow recording process at Bit Studios, san francisco.
* cover art designed by Implant in the Jawbone.
* produced at the Pavlovian SmokeFactory with DJ ICE-BERG.
* latest in techno from Italy,England,Germany,New York,Detroit and Canada.
* also acid, tribe, trance, deep and house.
------------------------------------------------------------
                CONTENTS
Green Side
1.The Reese Project - The Colour of Love (latest K.M.Saunderson)   
2.Inner City - Pennies from Heaven (Reese dream a-lot-mix)
3.Todd Terry - Put Your Hands Together (*from latest dbl.album)
4.Lidell Townsell & M.T.F. - Get with U (riot mix)
5.Todd Terry - A Day in a Life Pt. 2 (*)
6.Digital Domain - I Need Release (Rabit City 003)
7.Jam and Spoon - Stella (original mix)
8.Cybersonik - Technarchy (Richie Hawtin +8 Records, classic)
9.Claude Young - Brother from Another Planet (Detroit white label)
10.H-Bomb - Radar (hardcore techno)
11.Missing Channel - Hard to the Core (# Hardwax Records sub. of Undr. Res.)
12.Project 2 - Hysteria (fresh New York/Beltram/Technodome prod. w/acid)
13.Symbols & Instruments - Mood (Spinnin Records ambient closure)

Purple Side
1. Eddie Flashin Fowlkes - Time to Express (+ original techno)
2. Symbols & Instruments - Science of Numbers (+)
3. Gypsymen - The Bounce (deep)
4. M-D-Emm - Get Acidic (Transmat - titles speaks for itself)
5. Beltram - Energy Flash (first domestic release)
6. Monkey - Monk (fat/bass techno white label)
7. Missing Channel - Rave to the Maximum (hyped about 140 BPM)
8. Project 2 - (bbaaassss only for the headstrong see song #12 Green w/o acid)
9. Planet Core Productions - Frontal Sickness (Germany - Industrial Strength)
10.Speedy J - Pullover (Englands innovative whiz new mix on +8)
11.After Dark - Frantic (white label ????? fresh techno)
12.World Power Alliance - Seawolf (new on Underground Resistance technoacid)
13.N.U.K.E. - NaNa (Italy's Digital Boy suicide mix)
14.Michael Wells - Miami Burnin (speaks for itself)
15.Dyewitness - Observing the Earth (New York techno)
16.Dan Bell - Transmission (Canadian white label)
17.English Muffin - Ride (German 144 BPM)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*90 minutes, 30 songs, 10 dollars.
*415.863.8913 dj y-not information and inquiries.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 00:10:17 1992
From: Steven Collins <stevie@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 00:04:58 -0800
Subject: Anyone wanna give me a ride to Whalesong...

like right NOW?  Send me a note ASAP if this is possible...

Steven.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 05:45:38 1992
From: ble!ccowboy!boo@ns.pacbell.com (Console Cowboy)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 20:50:14 PST
Subject: nothing like it


>        Everyone who was busted should EACH ask for an INDIVIDUAL JURY
>trial - nothing like fucking up the entire judicial process with 800
>individual cases... :)

..nothing like fucked individuals like yourself doing nothing to help the
judicial process..just b/c u mite enjoy an illegal rave, it is still
*illegal* and u shouldn't complain when they get busted..if u have a problem
w/ that, then maybe u should stick to the shaspers..

--
Please send any replies here: ccowboy%ble%boo@pacbell.com


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 08:47:07 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 08:27:38 PST
Subject: Re:  nothing like it


	>        Everyone who was busted should EACH ask for an INDIVIDUAL JURY
	>trial - nothing like fucking up the entire judicial process with 800
	>individual cases... :)

	..nothing like fucked individuals like yourself doing nothing to help the
	judicial process..just b/c u mite enjoy an illegal rave, it is still
	*illegal* and u shouldn't complain when they get busted..if u have a problem
	w/ that, then maybe u should stick to the shaspers..



*** FLAME ON ***

	What kind of stupid fucked-up logic is this?
If we follow this tact, then I suppose no one should have complained in the
60's when civil rights demostrators had their heads bashed and were thrown
in jail for non-violent protest.  Yes indeed, if we participate in illegal
raves we should participate knowing full well what the consequences of our 
actions are, but this does NOT mean that those consequences are just or
should be tolerated by society.  No more  than jim-crow laws should be
tolerated by society,  I might add that in this country we STILL have
the right to peacable assembly, (remember, it was supposedly one of the
things we had a revolution for)  it  is true that some raves abuse this
right by not  having appropriate permits but this does not give the law the
right to trump up charges and use scare tactics as a form of social engineering.  This was tried earlier in the year during the LA rebellion
up here in SF when the police would make a Sweep and arrest EVERYONE on the
street, the message sent was that we don't want you on the street, PERIOD.
Now there are laws governing this type of behaviour and their is due process.
People have rights and if the police want to manipulate the legal system to
enforce their own adgenda then we need to do everything in our legal power
to protect ourselves.

*** FLAME OFF ***

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 10:54:10 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 10:47:21 PST
Subject: Re: nothing like it

Console Cowboy said this.  Or a big stinking cow.
> 
> ..nothing like fucked individuals like yourself doing nothing to help the
> judicial process..just b/c u mite enjoy an illegal rave, it is still
> *illegal* and u shouldn't complain when they get busted..if u have a problem
> w/ that, then maybe u should stick to the shaspers..
> 

Gee, thanks for the advice, Dad...
:)


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 11:24:52 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 11:16:58 PST
Subject: the Trip

Hi!
	The DJ's played 'The Trip' several times last night at the Shamen!
(Well, a few... I lost count at 3.  Short attention span I guess :)

The Shamen were pretty cool, even though the crowd was small.  I feel
left out because it seems like everyone I know and their dog got in
for free besides me.  Oh well.  (Seriously... the guest list for this
thing must've been a mile long.)  If the energy had been there, this
could've been a killer rave.  Unfortunately there were a lot of people
sort of just standing around.  This eventually rubbed off on me and I
became a part of the problem, so to speak, but there was enough stuff
going on besides the bands to have a good time regardless.

I was surprised by the Utah Saints... I thought they were better than
the Shamen.  I was also surprised by the Shamen, as I've heard some
bad things about their live show, but they turned out to be pretty
good.


I'm pretty tired, I had skip the afterparty 'cause I don't feel well,
but Gunther went and I'm sure he'll write something.

Nice seeing everyone there!

So, how was the Hardkiss party?		<--  Stupid Question   :-)

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From unknown@hermes.berkeley.edu Sun Nov  8 19:55:32 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 13:54:07 PST
Subject: My Cool Shirt

Last night Howard and I had a kicking time at the Shamen and Saints
show.  What made it especially interesting was the shirt I wore.  That
day I purchased a black and white shirt with the fairly common psycadelic
geometric pattern from Ameba Clothing.  However, no one else was
wearing one in the Warfield and I suddenly became "different".  In other words,
everyone that drove in from Walnut Creek to hear "those bands they
play on the raidio" knew by my uniform that I was THE X dealer.
I really didn't mind telling the first few that I was not their man, I
enjoyed the attention;  I even told one man in my best paranoid voice,
"You sound like a cop."--that got me an babbling apology.
Additionally, Howard got a kick out of following me through the
crowd and watching dialed eyes lock onto the back of my garmet.  Thank
you cool shirt--I love you.  I can't wait to unveil it at the big
Jones family Thanksgiving dinner--I'm sure my nephews will like it.

Also the after party at Club O started an hour late and maybe 15
people showed up.  They have decided not to go head to head with the
DNA. Instead, there might be a free club starting after DNA shuts
down.  I also got a flyer for a Rave in a fortune cookie--pretty cool.
--B-COMMING to R HOUSE NOVEMBER 20   707-523-9562, 916-349-7815,
415-927-5639.
				Gunther

-- 



From unknown@hermes.berkeley.edu Sun Nov  8 20:06:44 1992
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 16:37:37 -0800
Subject: A Fun Evening:Shamen/Warfield


The Shamen show at the Warfield was pretty good,albeit brief...

 The high point of the evening ,for me was Terence McKenna's monologue
with Shamanic accompanyment...Wow!
  I think Terence has a future in rock-and-roll!

Did any SFRavers besides myself make it to the after-party at Ammon's
friend's loft.. ?
 
  This was great...the ultimate trance-garage party...

It's a shame the Floppyfolk and Connie couldn't get together
on coordination for the party that was planned for Club O..but
never really happened.. I showed up there for awhile and it was
totally dead..(around 5:30-6:00 am.) 
 

From unknown@hermes.berkeley.edu Sun Nov  8 20:07:06 1992
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:50:59 -0800
Subject: Amon's afterparty


>Trance garage 

Not a bad nite.  some good people, decent groove.  great space.
Amon's visuals wheykul.  Tibetan tanka's, rippin snowboard video's, trippy
efx, and the most guresome documentation of the nexus of snowboarder and
rocks at high speed i've ever seen.  

From unknown@hermes.berkeley.edu Sun Nov  8 20:13:50 1992
From: Tamara Palmer                        <IZZYPK3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu>
Date:    Sun, 08 Nov 92 15:45 PST
Subject: re:MBM

MBM played last year at DV8 with Consolidated and it was kickin'...
Ofraves@soda.berkeley.edudon't miss it this time, O  Orbital should be great! I
don't know
when it's playing in the Bay Area but it will probably be at DV8
again...they are playing here in LA on November 21st so it is
probably within a few days of that.
                                   See ya!
                                          Tamara

From unknown@hermes.berkeley.edu Sun Nov  8 20:29:53 1992
From: gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 19:40:10 PST
Subject: Re: mail volume solutions


	Thanks to all who replied for the great advice and quick response.
i looked at elm, mh, and procmail.  Finally chose procmail -- it seemed like the
easiest/quickest solution.

				admiring my newly uncluttered rave mailbox,
				Gregg

From unknown@hermes.berkeley.edu Sun Nov  8 21:19:12 1992
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@apple.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 21:18:29 -0800
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
sh: /usr/local/bin/procmail: not found
554 "|IFS=' ';exec /usr/local/bin/procmail #YOUR_LOGIN_NAME"... unknown mailer error 1

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from medisg.Stanford.EDU by apple.com with SMTP (5.61/7-Aug-1992-eef)
	id AA27322; Sun, 8 Nov 92 21:18:29 -0800
	for jeremy@goofy.apple.com
Received: by medisg.Stanford.EDU (4.1/1.34)
	id AA26793; Sun, 8 Nov 92 21:18:04 PST
Received: from soda.berkeley.edu by medisg.Stanford.EDU (4.1/1.34)
	id AA26780; Sun, 8 Nov 92 21:17:17 PST
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	id AA10388; Sun, 8 Nov 92 21:16:56 -0800
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	(5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA22496; Mon, 9 Nov 92 00:17:13 -0500
Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA12725; Sun, 8 Nov 92 22:18:41 MST
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (liquored up and horny)
Message-Id: <9211090518.AA12725@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver.  The University has neither control over nor
	responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
Subject: Funky shirts needed!
To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 22:18:39 MST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Someone recently mentioned about buying a shirt in Amoeba...

Well, this got me thinking, out here in the Rockies the only places we
have to go to get "rave" t's are at raves themselves or the occasional
FreshJive shirt at a "Surf & Sport" store....Or downtown Denver which
I hate driving to, and the selection is still less than I'd like...

Anyway, anybody got any addresses of stores in the bay/hip-CA area
that sell shirts (music too, if possible) that will mail-order or ship
outside of CA??

*PLEASE!*  reply and help somene out who's stuck on the leading edge
of podunckville!!

-- 
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 

From unknown@hermes.berkeley.edu Sun Nov  8 21:48:37 1992
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 21:36:26 -0800
Subject: Raaaaaavveeeee clothe*ing...

  Has anybody seen the groovy Anarchic catalog?
 In my opinion they have the most innovative designs
and progressive styles of any of the ravewear outfits..
They were the first too,besides Ameba...and seem to have more variety
Don't have the number handy,but they are in San Jose.
I'm sure they would ship..
-Chris.

From sybase!dit@sun.com Tue Nov 10 08:50:06 1992
From: sybase!dit@sun.com (David Trumbull)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 12:41:19 PST
Subject: Re: HardKiss Party

> After driving to berkeley to go to the Wonderland Rave and found out it was  
> $20.00 and did not look like it was happening, my friend and I decided to go to

Huh, 'un'derland was at the Omni in oakland, and was just about as anti-rave
seeming as free beer.. The Omni, for those of you that don't know, is a 
cruddy barn-like joint that usually books oafs from concord emulating the latest
heavy metal trends. Security there is also famous for being less than friendly
etc.etc. oh yeah, It seemed like a bomb anyway from the telephone message which
was some woman trying to sound like 'alice' and saying what a great party this
was going to be - and that it was starting at 8:00 with 'a wonderful DJ lineup'
but not a single DJ was even named. 

One more thing, the Omni's nickname is 'the omelette', which is appropriate
since the Omni has about as much to do with parties and fun as does eggs with 
cheese and other bits of chopped up food in the middle and some home fries on 
the side.

what?
fmr.
-- 
  Superhigh            \       We just feel happy 
 dit@sybase.com        /        we dont know why
  +vibes+             /	      We just feel happy - thats real     oh yeah....

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 08:58:49 1992
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:00:16 -0800
Subject: Utah Saints/PDX

Just got back from the show here in Portland, Oregon, which was held at
the Roseland.  Opening was Factor Red, a local group maybe best described
as the Moody Blues in a gothic nightmare.  Pretty bad.

Utah Saints played their usual 35-40 minutes, pretty much the same tunes
as described from their shows elsewhere.  I thought they were pretty good,
but the crowd was kinda lame and didn't really pick up on things until
they riffed the opening of 'Something Good' about halfway through.  Since
it was less than half full, Factor Red was like Factor Less Than Zero *and*
Monday night, it seemed like everyone was in second gear at best.

The Saints aren't much as musicians, to be sure, but I like the concept and
they mesh very well with their DJ.  They seem to take the MTV thing in
stride, after all it sustained them for an entire American tour without
much in their kit bag to bring out.  Another half hour performance at least
would have been nice.

There was a flyer being handed out for a dance event 'after the rave' (heh)
at a local club, but I know what desultory events they tend to be here and
so I'm back online instead ;-)

Hope the new album gives the Saints some more confidence.  I think they 
have some promise, but we have yet to see the really great techno-oriented
band.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 08:59:33 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 9 Nov 1992 14:56:46 -0700
Subject: RE: Just Add Water & Hope for the Future

>We ended up having a great time, Carlos played a killer set, as did
>someone named "Mal" (Malachai?).  No one ever asked us for any money,
>and when I asked around, I was told that it was a free event.
>We made friends with one couple of genuine ravers from Fairfax, Wit 
>and Mara, who were overflowing with lovable feelings.  When we asked 
>them how they found out about this rave they replied, "Well we have this
>friend who gets on a computer..."  

Wit and Mara are my girlfriends roommates and I am there friend who gets on a
computer. Actually I am on a computer all day long,  Wit and Mara are really
remarkable people. It is also funny because they told me the next day that they
met this guy Lee who looked and danced just like me (could that be?). 

I spoke to Wit and told him about this memo and he said "thanks for the kind
words and great feelings and our chance encouter was truley wonderful, looking
forward to meeting again"

NUT
stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 10:23:17 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:28:59 PST
Subject: It's finally happened

Well it's finally happened.  Yesterday I was talking to Mark@ameba and
he says, "Man,have you seen this yet?" and he hands me this little
flyer shaped like America.  It was an ad for (get this):  The Knott's
Berry Farm new years' RAVE.  That's right, Knotts berry farm is having a rave.
I may be jumping to conclusions here, but this seems a little commercially 
motivated to me :).  All the rides will be open and Frankie Bones, the
BIFF of rave dj's, is listed as playing there.  I couldn't believe it.
And it's being put on by the Knott's berry farm staff.

I guess we don't have to worry about raves having a positive image
anymore... there's going to be a damn rave THEME PARK on new years.

I'll type in the flyer when I get home.

-H-
-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 10:38:12 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 11:31:33 MST
Subject: It's finally happened

Howard Berkey:

> Well it's finally happened.  Yesterday I was talking to Mark@ameba and
> he says, "Man,have you seen this yet?" and he hands me this little
> flyer shaped like America.  It was an ad for (get this):  The Knott's
> Berry Farm new years' RAVE.  That's right, Knotts berry farm is having a rave.
> I may be jumping to conclusions here, but this seems a little commercially 
> motivated to me :).  All the rides will be open and Frankie Bones, the
> BIFF of rave dj's, is listed as playing there.  I couldn't believe it.
> And it's being put on by the Knott's berry farm staff.

Ooooo!  Tell me, does "Under One Sky" have any full page ads for this rave?  I
wonder if this falls under their "underground" designation.  What am I saying?
Of course it does!  It isn't called "Sputnik"!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 11:21:23 1992
From: laura@usl.com
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 13:57 EST
Subject: Re: It's finally happened

Howard Berkey (via Pete Ashdown):
>
>> he says, "Man,have you seen this yet?" and he hands me this little
>> flyer shaped like America.  It was an ad for (get this):  The Knott's
>> Berry Farm new years' RAVE.  That's right, Knotts berry farm is having a rave.
>> I may be jumping to conclusions here, but this seems a little commercially 
>> motivated to me :).  All the rides will be open and Frankie Bones, the
>> BIFF of rave dj's, is listed as playing there.  I couldn't believe it.
>> And it's being put on by the Knott's berry farm staff.
>
>Ooooo!  Tell me, does "Under One Sky" have any full page ads for this rave?  I
>wonder if this falls under their "underground" designation.  

This REALLY pisses me off.  Not only is it not at all underground, it
means that Frankie won't be home for New Year's.  Does this mean there
will be no New Year's Storm Rave?

It is a TOTAL SHAME that Frankie is so warped now.  He did get a scene
really moving here in the New York area, and that in turn helped to spawn
a lot of what's going on here in the East Coast.  The Storm Rave Organisation
does put on excllent raves.  Their club, The Thunderground, is a great
place.  Now it seems Frankie's selling out big time.  I wonder if it's really 
true -- there have been cases where DJs have been put on flyers without their 
permission, but since Knott's is such a businesslike place I can't believe 
they'd do something like that.

I feel like I did when I found out that Santa Claus wasn't real.

And, assuming that this is true, I have a funny feeling that we won't be
hearing any information about it around here in New York ... Frankie's gotta 
keep that Underground Mystique, you know?

Laura

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 11:36:00 1992
From: dicanoxes <watanabe@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 11:14:22 PST
Subject: Shamen in LA

well... in Los Angeles, the Shamen concert (note the use of the word
concert, not rave) was pretty much an industry gatehring
i dont think they really were trying to pretend it was a rave
although the LA Times reviewer called it such
and then said it was more like a concert than a rave...

anyhow, enough bitching over semantics

i was one of those lucky people to be on a guest list
only problem was that i didnt know which one
minor problem
all i had to do was ask all three people with lists to check my name
cuz i was a lost little idiot who didnt even know who was letting 
him in for free
the two record label peoples were pretty nice and the guy with the bands
and i dont know who elses lists was decent, he was busy so that would be
his excuse for mostly ignoring me

so i spend 45 min or so by a pay phone in downtown LA trying to track
down the guy who actually knows whose list im on and after 5 phone calls to
the operator and who knows how much in a calling card bill, i find him
and find out that i was on one of the label lists that said that i couldnt
possibly be on their list

well supposedly she had just been handed the tickets since we left,
so we got in just to see the last two Utah Saints songs
they sounded cool, i wish i had seen more

then Mr C played a very excellent choice of music and i was very happy
although most of the crowd seemed like it could care less what was being
played

then the shamen went on and werent disappointing cuz i was expecting them
to suck and they were better than that
i enjoyed some of the things, but overall i wish they would have
just let Mr C dj the rest of the nite

then a DJ took over again and played the best of techno of the 90's
that was rather uninspiring but was fun to dance to
(this from someone who dances with no music around, so that doesnt
really say much for the music)
i was very impressed that they kept playing music until 2:30
even though for the last half hour there were less than 15 dancing
it was nice

then the fun started...
see i went with joachim vance and he parked his car in a nice safe little
parking structure that we for some reason thought was going to stay open
all night... little did we know that huge iron gates decend over the
entrance/exit to this structure at 1:30 am

this was a rather depressing sight
the sign said that it opened at 8 am...
5 1/2 hours away...
now, i feel comfortable being in hollywood at almost any time of night or
day, just because i know the area and there tend to be lots of people around
downtown LA is quite a different story
_QUITE_ a different story
there were no phone numbers to call or anything so we seemed pretty much stuck
i knew a promoters house was only a quick taxi ride away, but that wouldnt
really do much with the few bucks we had
well there was a park across the street from the place where the shamen 
performed, maybe there might be some un-safe, but mostly deserted part of the
park that would be okay to crash at

at a rave, hanging around a bunch of drugged out people doesnt seem to bother
me, but at 3 am in downtown LA, somehow having a hundred or so
drugged out people around me wasnt what i wanted

well we decided to walk around a bit and see what was there 
walking around the block one way led us to the back of the parking structure
that might have been breakinable, but not without looking very suspicious
and crawling through someone's little sleeping area

but it killed some time and seemed pretty safe, so we argued over which 
direction to walk in, and finally conceding to go by the park, we start walking
half way along the edge of the park i realize that it is just a place for
people to hang out and get happy and not notice the night go by
so we keep walkign until some guy stops us, asks us what we're doing
and what not, tells us that we look really out of place
(we're both pretty white and decently dressed) 
and he tells us how we should try to find some place to go cuz it isnt
safe, in between these things he tries to get us to buy something
or anything, a guy walks up and wants to sell a brand new raiders cap
and a brand new crack pipe,  and we can get a discount on the raiders
cap if we buy the crack pipe...
someone else walks up and i ask him if there is a 24 hour food place
that is open and he points one out and after a little while
offers to walk us over
after hearing his life story a few times i get a drink and try to figure
out what to do next 
after enjoying the company of the store apropriately named 'Crazy Burger'
(why a burger stand was open at 3 am in that neighborhood i dont think
i will ever understand) 
we decide to head back to the Park Plaze Hotel where the shamen performed
and see if they can help us get our car out...
the security types had finally left and it was just the crew gettting all
the equipment out
after explaining our problem to the guy at the desk, he said we could just
hang out in the lobby until the parking place opened

well we found a nice couch adn i curled up on one end and went to sleep
only to be joined a couple minutes later by someone who wanted my shoes
after a minor discussion over this, i went to the bathroom to come back and
find that he had taken over all of the couch that joachim didnt occupy
i tried to get comfortable in the other couches, but the door was open
and a major draft was coming through and the crew was still dragging
equipment out and that was quite loud

at this point i eyed the women restroom and remembering how comfy
their waiting rooms can be in big hotels i decided to take a looksee,
the room cut down on the noise a bit and the draft incredibly
so i debated whether the couch or the floor was more comfortable
i think i mistakenly chose the couch
but i dont know how many hours later some woman woke me up,
apologetically and said somethigns that i was much to asleep still to understand
i soon found out that she had taken over the desk for the man last nite
and he had told her we were staying there but didnt know where
probably a bit of a surprise, i guess joachim had decided to camp it
in the restroom too, but i dont remember much from the time i woke up
til about 5 min later
it was about 7, so staying in the restroom wasnt really plausible anymore
and we just hung out for a little longer and i was quite surprised
at how nice and polite someone was when we were sleeping in their lobby
but she seemed very sorry that she even disturbed us..
which was nice, but made me feel overly guitly

well around 8 am the garage was open and we trekked on home...
shoulda just taken the fact that i had problems with the guestlist
as a sign i shoulda gone home

 ,
dana

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 11:38:12 1992
From: rpcaras@srv.pacbell.com (Bob Carasik)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 11:27:43 PST
Subject: Re: It's finally happened


-Lines: 33
> 
> Howard Berkey (via Pete Ashdown):
> >
> >> he says, "Man,have you seen this yet?" and he hands me this little
> >> flyer shaped like America.  It was an ad for (get this):  The Knott's
> >> Berry Farm new years' RAVE.  That's right, Knotts berry farm is having a rave.
> >> I may be jumping to conclusions here, but this seems a little commercially 
> >> motivated to me :).  All the rides will be open and Frankie Bones, the
> >> BIFF of rave dj's, is listed as playing there.  I couldn't believe it.
> >> And it's being put on by the Knott's berry farm staff.
> >


> >Ooooo!  Tell me, does "Under One Sky" have any full page ads for this rave?  > place.  Now it seems Frankie's selling out big time.  I wonder if it's really 
> true -- there have been cases where DJs have been put on flyers without their 


Relax, folks.  This is all just a goof.  There is no rave at Knott's Berry Farm.

It's at Heritage USA.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 11:48:43 1992
From: zirk@ece.ucsd.edu (Karin Zirk)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 11:37:29 PST
Subject: Mood does influence your high





I truly believe that your state of mind at the time
you take a drug, any drug, influences your high.

For example, a person can be very sad and drink quite
a bit and end up in tears, because the depressent effect of the alcohol amplifies their
already present feelings of sorrow.

Caffeine reacts in much the same manner.  If your
very stressed out and drink too much coffee, you
get even more stressed.  WHile if you drank the
same amount while spending a relaxing day at home
you might be motivated to do more chores around the
house, but in a happy, and relaxed manner.

The human mind is the most incrediable thing on
the face of the planet (ok well not the most, but
its right up there with the ocean, redwood trees,
dolphins and wolves).  It has the power to influence
anything we do.

So if someone says she feels depressed during the first
hour or whatever when she does E, then for her that
is the way her mind reacts.  A much more positive way
in dealing with her aprehensions is trying to find
a way to allow her to come on in a more supportive
loving environment.  ANother thing that helps
is to have your mind actively engage in some task
or project so that you don't have time to trip on
coming on, but can allow the drug to release your
inner being with out the controlling part of your
brain trying to negate the effects.

Just my humble opinion.

Karin

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 12:48:06 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 11:29:04 PST
Subject: Re:  Discographies of Prodigy and Messiah?

I don't know about Messiah, but I have seen full-length domestic CDs by
The Prodigy and Eon at Tower.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 13:03:20 1992
From: Bryan S. Campbell <campbell@voyager.jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 12:48:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Discographies of Prodigy and Messaih?



The only domestically available CD's for the Messiah are singles for "Temple
of Dreams", and "There is no Law"...  IMHO, don't waste your money on 'em.

Bryan C.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 13:09:45 1992
From: cspot@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 12:59:46 -0800
Subject: Labyrinth push


Well, I missed the FMR thanks to carlessness. I hope everybody had a good
time.

Is the big Qool World Labyrinth event being pushed as hard all over the
bay area as it is here in Santa Cruz? There are two or three large
posters posted in the lobby of my dorm, and (get this) somebody went
around to *every* room in the building and tacked a flyer to everybody's
corkboard. Keep in mind that this is Santa Cruz, over the hill and far
away from rave central.

Anyway, all the advertising hasn't worked on me; I'm probably going to
Lighthouse 2.5. Hope to see y'all there.

C.

                       |    They have corrupted themselves,
Chris.Hilker           |    their spot is not the spot of his children:
cspot@cats.ucsc.edu    |    they are a perverse and crooked generation.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 13:55:00 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 13:35:24 PST
Subject: Re: It's finally happened

laura@usl.com said this.  Or a big stinking cow.
> 
> This REALLY pisses me off.  Not only is it not at all underground, it
> means that Frankie won't be home for New Year's.  Does this mean there
> will be no New Year's Storm Rave?
> 
> It is a TOTAL SHAME that Frankie is so warped now.  He did get a scene
> really moving here in the New York area, and that in turn helped to spawn
> a lot of what's going on here in the East Coast.  The Storm Rave Organisation
> does put on excllent raves.  Their club, The Thunderground, is a great
> place.  Now it seems Frankie's selling out big time.  I wonder if it's really 
> true -- there have been cases where DJs have been put on flyers without their 
> permission, but since Knott's is such a businesslike place I can't believe 
> they'd do something like that.
> 
> I feel like I did when I found out that Santa Claus wasn't real.
> 
> And, assuming that this is true, I have a funny feeling that we won't be
> hearing any information about it around here in New York ... Frankie's gotta 
> keep that Underground Mystique, you know?
> 
> Laura
> 



ACK!  Sorry.  Frankie Bones won't be there.....  I saw him on a
different flyer.  HOWEVER, this rave has:
1.  An LA number
2.  An 800 number	(What, no 900 number?  :) )
 
I'm at work again and I don't have the flyer with me but I promise
I'll type it in when I get home.

-H-

p.s. Laura... please post this to ne-raves, I don't remember the
address.



-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 14:42:10 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 10:29:42 PST
Subject: ???

Damn!  I didn't get full moon e-mail but I heard about it verbaly and I heard not to show
up until 2:00 a.m.  Two of my friends and I were all dressed and ready to go and we fell
asleep!  Lame, I know.  So, how was it?  Did the police or harbor master ever catch on?

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 15:19:48 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 14:52:47 PST
Subject: help

i just bought SONIC RECORDS' killer techno last nite (this comp. may be quite
old) and i was a bit disappointed.  i mean, it IS killer techno, but all the
songs sounded kinda the same, and nothing was THAT creative or moving.  don't
get me wrong, it's cool, but i was wondering if anyone knows what i mean, and
has any suggestions for something a little better.  i REALLY like ultraviolet
catastrophe, but i can't handle something like terra incontinenta for very
long.

can u help me?

thanx...

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 15:25:13 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 15:18:39 -0800
Subject: grrrrrrr


i hate to post this here, but i have a question for a few people. i have 
this sinking feeling that many of the letters i've sent in the past few
days have gotten lost.  i mailed jon, andy, rocky, and some other guy in
colorado whose name i forgot.  if you got the letters fine, but if you 
didn't, tell me so i can figure out whassup.  thanks.....

always, leah

ps. for all those who went to fmr i hope you had a wonderful time and i
want you all to know i am insanely jealous.  i was being a responsible
student.  *sigh*


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 15:52:13 1992
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992   15:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: matt hackert in berzerkeley

In-Reply-To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu -- 11/10/92 09:41

hi folx!
matt hackert of srl (fame ?) will be doing some sort of performance art
thingie at the pfa ( pacific film archive) in berkeley monday, nov. 16th
at 8 pm . pfa is on bancroft near college let me know if any of you are
interested in going.
take care/shalom/rave out
ovid

From MAILER-DAEMON@mars.esd.sgi.com Tue Nov 10 16:40:19 1992
From: MAILER-DAEMON@mars.esd.sgi.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:39:50 -0800
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

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	id AA00538; Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:31:00 PST
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:31:00 PST
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Message-Id: <9211110031.AA00538@ganymede.apple.com>
To: jondr@sco.com
Subject: Re:  help
Cc: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu

i didn't know that you were UVC.  aren't you also God's Personal DJ? :)
i must say, uvc is FUCKING rad.  (i was going to call my techno project
Ultravioet Socket, so that kinda bummed me out :)  now i have to take
my second pick, Fiberoptic Playhouse.)  the song with the DeadCanDance
sample had me dancing at Underground Records (and not because i used to
be a deathrocker :)  (who didn't:)  

i NEED to hear more UVC...keep it up, it rips!  (BTW, this is not a
paid endorsement...if you haven't heard Ultraviolet Catastrophe, you are
REEAALLY missing out).

-mark.

ps-  jon, you didn't even answer my original question(!) :)





From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 16:41:03 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:31:00 PST
Subject: Re:  help

i didn't know that you were UVC.  aren't you also God's Personal DJ? :)
i must say, uvc is FUCKING rad.  (i was going to call my techno project
Ultravioet Socket, so that kinda bummed me out :)  now i have to take
my second pick, Fiberoptic Playhouse.)  the song with the DeadCanDance
sample had me dancing at Underground Records (and not because i used to
be a deathrocker :)  (who didn't:)  

i NEED to hear more UVC...keep it up, it rips!  (BTW, this is not a
paid endorsement...if you haven't heard Ultraviolet Catastrophe, you are
REEAALLY missing out).

-mark.

ps-  jon, you didn't even answer my original question(!) :)


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 16:41:23 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:32:52 PST
Subject: Re:  help

oh, that time you answered my question... thanks :)

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 16:48:02 1992
From: gangriel@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:41:56 -0800
Subject: STUDENTS BEATEN AND MACED AT UC SANTA CRUZ

TO ALL UNIVERSITY of CALIFORNIA STUDENTS...
l
I know that this is rude to post this here, but I think you folks
will understand...

	Yesterday, monday the 9th, we students here at Santa Cruz
had a rally to protest the proposed fee increases ($700-1000 per year)
that the Regents are considering to implement. (Those students at
Berkeley hopefully have heard this by now) Last night we were in
the foyer to the Chancellors office. The rally had gone on all day.
Some students were occupying the office itself, but the majority
of us were talking about what we were going to do. This was a 
successful protest, and we did not want to lose the momentum that we
had gained so far. I myself was there for a few hours and was mostly
a witness to the discussions going on. We were planning to legally
sleep in the foyer and get media coverage to let people know what
was happening. At around 8:00pm or later the cops came. They did not
warn anyone to move, and came in with their clubs swinging. They
assulted about 20-30 people with their clubs, mace (pepper spray), 
and by kicking. The students did nothing to provoke the police. I
saw people thrown into the wall, into pillars, on the ground. One
student opened his mouth to shout something, and a cop maced him
right there. A person with a camara was also maced. One of the cops
kicked a man who was huddling on the ground in a ball.
	There are retaping and distributing tapes of this event to
as many as the schools as we can. I know there are several in Berkeley
as of 11:00 o'clock last night. Many of us students are really pissed
that this happened, it was supposed to be a peacefull demonstration. 
The only violent physical action came from the cops themselves, the
violence of the students was limited to yelling and throwing wads of
trash. We didn't fight back. These police were the downtown riot police
and were dressed in full riot gear. They were expecting violence from
us. 
	I know this is really incomplete, but it's all I can do now.
We want this message spread as fast as possible, to as many places as
possible. THEY CAN'T BE ALLOWED TO RAISE THE FEES AGAIN. Most of us
cannot afford school now, and with the proposed fee hikes, it will cost
more that most of us can afford.
	On Thursday the 19th (I believe) the Regents are going to vote
on whether or not to raise the fees (These people get payed an average
of $160000 and get more than $200000 each in perks, and this is not
even their primary job. Most of the Regents own FIVE CORPORATIONS each)
WE NEED TO PUT A STOP TO THIS BULLSHIT!!! There will be action movements
at almost all of the UC's. Look around, get involved, PLEASE! The
Regents think they can just blow us off...DON'T let them!
	I will be happy to provide anyone with any information they
need. Do something for your education!!!
			Thank you for your time,
			Stefan Lasiewski
.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 18:49:19 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 18:40:59 PST
Subject: So, How Was FMR?


 From someone who's raving activity is going to be curtailed for a few weeks -
I'll be getting my raving vicariously for awhile, by reading sfraves. So, 
it's 6:42 PM Tuesday night - what happened at FMR? Did nobody go, or is 
everybody who went in jail or something???

				Thinking Cheerful Thoughts -

					Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com

-- 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 19:29:23 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:21:58 -0800
Subject: Re:  So, How Was FMR?

Larry, easily distinguishable from a big stinking cow, wrote:

> what happened at FMR? Did nobody go, or is
> everybody who went in jail or something???

Funny, I just had exactly the same thought!

Let's hope that the reason we haven't heard anything was that it
was so great that everyone stayed 'til 1 this afternoon and are too
busy sleeping to have posted anything yet...

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 19:30:24 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:21:49 PST
Subject: here it is... K-RAVE AMERICA!!!

OK, here's the flyer:

(Front side, shaped like America)

Knott's Berry Farm
December 31, 1992
K-RAVE AMERICA
New Years Eve

(Back Side)

NATIONAL
1-800-4-RAVE-LINE

NEW YORK			WORLD WIDE!
212 366-6605								

LOS ANGELES
213 891-2699 OR 213 486-4199		USA! CALIFORNIA!

Leading the nation to New Frontiers

RIDES AND ATTRACTIONS WILL BE OPEN!
STAY TUNED FOR THE COUNTDOWN!
PERFORMANCES AND DJS TO BE ANNOUNCED


There are also 2 promoter logos, one says destructo and the other is a
deer or rabbit.

The Prodigy is rumored to be one of the bands there.  (Rumored by
these 2 girls Gunther and I know from Livermore who met Liam last 
summer.  Take it with a grain of salt...)

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 19:35:33 1992
From: Mark Joey Chan <mc4o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:30:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: It's finally happened

You know - that sounds like a joke.  I can't wait to see if anyone from
SFRAVES goes, and if they do - what it was like.  Mannnnnnnnn.. kind of made
me feel the same way I did when I heard Peter Murphy was playing at
Great America.

Oh well - just who's idea was this anyway?

mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 19:50:00 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:33:48 PST
Subject: Re:  So, How Was FMR?

MykL G said this.  Or a big stinking cow.
> 
> Larry, easily distinguishable from a big stinking cow, wrote:
	 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No no no.  It's not "Someone or a big stinking cow" said this,
it's "Someone said this.  Or a big stinking cow."

:)

-H-

Sheesh, no Monty Python fans around? 


OK, I'll change my attr. string :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 20:02:10 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:52:34 PST
Subject: shirts


	Personally, I think the wave of the future in 
rave t-shirts is stuff actually made by big corporations.
Forget Jive, Clobber, etc., ad nauseum, who spoof corporate
 logos--wear a real corporate logo.  Examples would be Jolt 
Cola, Oreo Cookies, Bazooka Bubble Gum, etc.  Provided
the shirts were well-made, and are genuine products of
the company in question--this would be very important
in making your postmodern statement.

	So, along those lines, does anyone know where
I could get a lime-green and flourescent blue Vicks 
Vapo-Rub t-shirt?  I'd pay any price.

	Speaking of Vicks, how come I haven't seen
anyone on this coast E-vapor-8-ing?  I hear it's big
time in Europe and New York.  Not that I don't think
it's kinda silly.  Just wondering.

	Jim  :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 20:12:19 1992
From: Steven Collins <stevie@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:04:06 -0800
Subject: Re:  So, How Was FMR?

Well, I wasn't there for really long, but I'll tell you what I can.

After taking Ac transit Line 51 (public transit to a rave!  yeah!)
and walking the last few blocks, me and my friend dan arrived at ca.
2:15, which luckily was about precisely when the music started.  The
location was about perfect (thanx Brian).  Lots of space, well-lit by
the moon and easy to get to.  My fren said all the people huddled
together looked somewhat mystical in the moonlight.  There were many cops
wandering about but they didn't seem to actually do anything.  I thought
there was a really good vibe among the people.  I especially liked meet-
ing Raymond and Tina who were very huggy and lent me some cool glasses
that made the moon look neet. Personally I didn't like the first DJ
that much, but that's prob. due to personal preference, he was playing
slower house-type music whereas I'm much more into faster hardcore techno.
I liked the 2nd DJ a little more.  So, with all this wonderfulness, you
may ask, why did I leave after about 2.5 hours?  Because I was REALLY
FUCKING COLD.  not to mention a bit tired.  In fact, I think I caught a
cold because of it.  Oh well.  I'd like to hear from someone who was
there longer?...

Stevie.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 20:35:44 1992
From: gangriel@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:31:07 -0800
Subject: More comments...


	Well, E seems to have different effects on different people, most people
I know start mildly depressed and become REALLY HAPPY within a half hour to hour
so...although I know people who were depressed for one or two hours and than...
it HIT them good...so...

My 2 cents...
	-Stefan

PS What the hell is in E??? I know some of the background...can anyone tell me
what the reason for its develpoment is??? I'm too poor to buy a book on the
subject ( not to mention E or other 'expressors' )

	Thanks in advance...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 23:16:27 1992
From: ble!ccowboy!boo@ns.pacbell.com (Console Cowboy)
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 14:08:02 PST
Subject: dad


Howard Berkey spewed this (or some other old fart did):

>Gee, thanks for the advice, Dad...
>:)

..no problem son, except u're probably older than i am..heh

--
Please send any replies here: ccowboy%ble%boo@pacbell.com


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 23:16:36 1992
From: ble!ccowboy!boo@ns.pacbell.com (Console Cowboy)
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 13:58:54 PST
Subject: REACTION

>	What kind of stupid fucked-up logic is this?
>If we follow this tact, then I suppose no one should have complained in the
>60's when civil rights demostrators had their heads bashed and were thrown
>in jail for non-violent protest.

..now i didn't say that and i wasn't implying that and u know it..so u
"suppose" wrong..

>  Yes indeed, if we participate in illegal
>raves we should participate knowing full well what the consequences of our 
>actions are, but this does NOT mean that those consequences are just or
>should be tolerated by society.

..i didn't say that all consequences were just..just the specific case that
we were talking about..the place was selling liquor w/o a license and not
only that but selling liquor to minors..when u know a high school kid who
dies after being in a drunk driving accident, and u find out that he got the
alcohol at a rave such as this, and then some asshole has the nerve to say 
"nothing like fucking up the judicial process", u just can't let that go..


>tolerated by society,  I might add that in this country we STILL have
>the right to peacable assembly, (remember, it was supposedly one of the
>things we had a revolution for)

..jeez relax, i didn't say anything about this at all..

> it  is true that some raves abuse this
>ight by not  having appropriate permits but this does not give the law the
>ight to trump up charges and use scare tactics

..in the case i spoke of there weren't any trumped up charges, just real ones

>eople have rights and if the police want to manipulate the legal system to
>nforce their own adgenda then we need to do everything in our legal power
>o protect ourselves.

the original poster seems to think that this attitude applies to everything..
if he was caught redhanded committing a crime, he'd still probably say "nothing
like this to fuck up the judicial process"...that's my point..

>*** FLAME OFF ***

..u read too much fantastic4..

--
Please send any replies here: ccowboy%ble%boo@pacbell.com


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 23:30:26 1992
From: Mark Joey Chan <mc4o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 1992 02:24:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: what do you tink...


To all those ravers out there:  I was in a bar the other night, having a
friendly discussion with a friend of mine about ecstasy.  She told me that for
about the first half-hour of her high, she felt severely depressed (for no
particular reason).  This has never happened to me, and was wondering if any of

you have had a similar reaction.  It seems that it has happened to quite a few
of her friends who have done it, but I have never heard of this happening to
anyone I know.  I donUt think it has to do with the particualr dose that she
had because I had some the same night from the same source.  I was under the
impression that ecstasy just made you feel good - but now I get the impression
that it enhances any feelings that you have at the time you peak.   If this is
true, we should all make sure we are in a good mood when we take it.  Comments?


Oh - Mike and Zak from SCU and UCD - Im talking about Kerry.

For you ne-ravers - see you at POWER or perhaps DEF CON 1 (?)

For those of you in the Pittsburgh area, are there any busses going to DC for
DEF CON, and if so, what are the details? (prices, time of departure/return
etc) I could call TZ, but I figured that since Im on now, I might as well ask
YINZ <--- its a burgh thing......
reply to mc4o@andrew.cmu.edu

mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov  8 23:56:33 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 23:52:24 -0800
Subject: package deal


	i have heard rumors of a new years party in hawaii...
	300 bucks package:  flight, lodging, rave.

	can it be true?  would it even be worth it?
what about getting e in hawaii?


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 00:51:17 1992
From: james@newton.apple.com
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 16:17:57 PST
Subject: whalesong / M>B>M

Hey kids,

I made it out to whalesong last night.  even though it was 'beached
whalesong' indoors at The Bridge, formally Trocaderro, it was great.  Now
I'm wondering, if the two clubs The Bridge & The Quake combined, would part
of the upper level collapse? *-)

They've redone the space there & it's nice.  big dancefloor, loud, clean
soundsystem, and nice chillspace upstairs.

I went w/ Giamma & friends, and ran into Brian as well.  Jeno's tribal
mixes put us all into a dance trance frenzy. the crowd was a mix of ravers
& the straighter-looking club goers.

Picked up a flyer on the way in:

THURSDAY NOVEMBER 19th
"New York City's Hottest Alternative Rave"
the COMMUNION tour featuring:

        MEAT BEAT MANIFESTO
        ORBITAL
        Ultramarine

Live at THE BRIDGE
520 4th St. @ Bryant
415-495-6620

good news, eh?  a MBM show comin' our way.  the only bad news was the DJ
list on the flyer:
        Dave Kendall from MTV's 120 (wasted) minutes 
        & Tony Fletcher of Communion

the bad news for me is that I'll be stuck in Vegas for Comdex.  Any other
digital ravers out there heading to Comdex?

l8,
james


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
<James Joaquin><Apple Computer><james@newton.apple.com><AppleLink:JOAQUIN1>
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 01:22:25 1992
From: Andrea Parra <amparra@waffle.sns.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 23:13 PST
Subject: Shamen

Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA  94539-6669
Comments: Validated 5/15/92
Message-ID: <wZmyTB2w165w@waffle.sns.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 23:07:55 PST
Organization: Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA  94539-6669

Yeah, I was one of those hundred or so people who got in free... what
a strange experience!  I also thought the Utah Saints suprisingly good...
the Shamen.... well, it was like seeing "the best of the Shamen revue"
or something; I think the Shamen has now turned into a massive commercial 
enterprise or something.  They were amusing, but they lack that edgy 
feeling to their music that existed with Will Sin.  As one of my friends 
said last night "I think it's a bit callous of them to continue without a 
pause after Will died, almost as if nothing had happened."

A big hello to Chris, who I saw last night... perhaps some of you saw me?
I was dressed in black with huge black platforms, and I worked the front
door most of the night.  Um... I didn't have a chance to thank Nick, the
Shamen's artist, for our conversation and his pass... if anyone out there
in the ether knows him please give him a big thanks for being so nice.


----
amparra@waffle.sns.com  (Andrea Parra)
Systems'n'Software Free Public Access BBS --- (510)623-8652

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 05:47:51 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 23:48:09 PST
Subject: Re: REACTION/FLAME OFF

Console Cowboy--

You are so defensive and argumentative that you
obviously didn't even try to understand the points
that your respondents made.  I call upon others
to reply to your pointed but off-the-point responses
to the reasonable things that Geoff and Howard had
to say; it's especially dismaying to me that someone
like yourself that presumably has gone to raves has
such a self-serving and uninformed point of view!  I
seldom respond so sharply, but your arguments back show
an attitude that is more in tune with the kind of
us-and-them negative thinking than the open, inquiring
dialogue and hashing out od issues and arguments that
have by and large been the hallmark of sfraves, evn
in some of the most vitriolic flames!
Rave peacefully,
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 09:30:39 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 22:14:26 PST
Subject: ???

>..nothing like fucked individuals like yourself doing nothing to help the
>judicial process..just b/c u mite enjoy an illegal rave, it is still
>*illegal* and u shouldn't complain when they get busted..if u have a problem
>w/ that, then maybe u should stick to the shaspers..

.nothing like fucked individuals like yourself.  Oh, and what the hell is a shasper?
Is that cowboy jargon or something?



--
>Please send any replies here: ccowboy%ble%boo@pacbell.com

Na, you seem to require a public flaming session.


-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 10:09:35 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:01:16 PST
Subject: Re: whalesong / M>B>M

james@newton.apple.com said this.  Or a big stinking cow.
> 
> THURSDAY NOVEMBER 19th
> "New York City's Hottest Alternative Rave"
> the COMMUNION tour featuring:
> 
>         MEAT BEAT MANIFESTO
>         ORBITAL
>         Ultramarine
> 
> Live at THE BRIDGE
> 520 4th St. @ Bryant
> 415-495-6620

YESYESYES!!!!!
I can't wait for this show.  
Elsewhere they're only charging around $10 for this tour (although
it'll probably be more here...)


> 
> good news, eh?  a MBM show comin' our way.  the only bad news was the DJ
> list on the flyer:
>         Dave Kendall from MTV's 120 (wasted) minutes 
>         & Tony Fletcher of Communion

Oh gawd.  DK is the Dan Quayle of alternative music.  
Geoff, bring that super-soaker squirt rifle you had at the first 
alternity...  We might get on the air...   :)


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 10:21:24 1992
From: Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:15:00 PST
Subject: what do you tink...

mark joey chan writes:

>To all those ravers out there: I was in a bar the other night, having
>a friendly discussion with a friend of mine about ecstasy.  She told
>me that for about the first half-hour of her high, she felt severely
>depressed (for no particular reason).  This has never happened to me,
>and was wondering if any of you have had a similar reaction.  It
>seems that it has happened to quite a few of her friends who have
>done it, but I have never heard of this happening to anyone I know.
>I donUt think it has to do with the particualr dose that she had
>because I had some the same night from the same source.  I was under
>the impression that ecstasy just made you feel good - but now I get
>the impression that it enhances any feelings that you have at the
>time you peak.  If this is true, we should all make sure we are in a
>good mood when we take it.  Comments?

sounds like she got something that wasn't really ecstasy.

i've had stuff that makes me feel like i'm freezing to death for the
first 10-30 mins and then afterwards i'm fine and happy.

i think that stuff about it amplifying your mood is bogus.  none of
the literature i've read mentions it.

Jon Drukman (God's personal DJ)                 uunet!sco!jondr   jondr@sco.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 10:52:52 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:44:46 PST
Subject: Re: nothing like it



>>  Yes indeed, if we participate in illegal
>>raves we should participate knowing full well what the consequences of our 
>>actions are, but this does NOT mean that those consequences are just or
>>should be tolerated by society.
>
>..i didn't say that all consequences were just..just the specific case that
>we were talking about..the place was selling liquor w/o a license and not
>only that but selling liquor to minors..when u know a high school kid who
>dies after being in a drunk driving accident, and u find out that he got the
>alcohol at a rave such as this, and then some asshole has the nerve to say 
>"nothing like fucking up the judicial process", u just can't let that go..
>

I think the biggest problem we have with this case is that the RAVERS
were arrested.  Maybe the promoter should be slapped on the wrist for
not getting the right permits, but there is little reason to be
arresting the participants.

>
>>tolerated by society,  I might add that in this country we STILL have
>>the right to peacable assembly, (remember, it was supposedly one of the
>>things we had a revolution for)
>
>..jeez relax, i didn't say anything about this at all..
>
>> it  is true that some raves abuse this
>>ight by not  having appropriate permits but this does not give the law the
>>ight to trump up charges and use scare tactics
>
>..in the case i spoke of there weren't any trumped up charges, just real ones
>

One of the posts said there was NOT any alcohol for sale, a few people 
snuck in their own.  The police used the empty bottles to say that there
was alcohol for sale.  This sounds trumped-up to me.  

That post may have been wrong, and there was alcohol for sale, but I
tend to believe that there wasn't any.

And then one might ask whether drinking-age laws are an effective way
of dealing with teen alcohol abuse, but that's another topic.

________________________________________________
 Derek Chung			Oracle Graphics	
 dhchung@oracle.com 		  (415)506-6195

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 11:23:21 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 11:02:00 PST
Subject: Re:  whalesong / M>B>M

hey.  i just started working at apple.  anything cool to do here that
i should know about?  8)

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 12:09:58 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 9 Nov 1992 11:50:02 -0700
Subject: HardKiss Party

After driving to berkeley to go to the Wonderland Rave and found out it was  
$20.00 and did not look like it was happening, my friend and I decided to go to
the HardKiss Party on King Street.  We got there around 1:00 and it was pretty
small 100 people at most.  The music was really good ( with the Hardkiss
brothers is there anything else but good music?).

The place off king street is my favorite Rave space: the music just pumps and
it is great place to meet people, not too dark and big, so you keep meeting the
same people and get to know them better. The only drawback to the place is that
it is not well ventillated but they allow Ins and Outs which helps alot and is
another plus. I had a great time and met alot of people.  Did any of you go, I
was wearing a multicolor jughead hat, if you remember me send me a mail and say
hi.  


Scott "NUT"
stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 12:49:31 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 12:36:38 PST
Subject: Re: A Fun Evening


>Did any SFRavers besides myself make it to the after-party at Ammon's
>friend's loft.. ?
>  This was great...the ultimate trance-garage party...

I was there earlier, Chris.  Nice space, visuals, people, but
after an hour or so, we opted for something a bit more ravey. I 
was told that the sound system they were using is very available. 
Maybe there's a SFRAVES/Rhythmos party in our future? 

Beached Whalesong at the Troc/Bridge Club was pretty good,
although we arrived too late to enjoy Jeno's set.  Yes, it
is much improved with the chill spaces upstairs, but I'm still
not terribly impressed with the sound.  Too much reflection of
the highs, and I found the bass lacking.  I think its a mistake
to put those speaker stacks on the stage.  

>It's a shame the Floppyfolk and Connie couldn't get together
>on coordination for the party that was planned for Club O..but
>never really happened.. I showed up there for awhile and it was
>totally dead..(around 5:30-6:00 am.) 

The after party at the DNA lounge was quite active when I got
there at around 7:30.  I bit clubby for my tastes, but I got to
dance the remaining toxins out of my system before crashing and
I got to see Gunther's cool shirt.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBle/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 13:04:04 1992
From: gwh@lurnix.com
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 11:53:03 -0800
Subject: Re: REACTION 


Umm, gee, holding the people who went for the rave responsible
for the organizer's breaking the law sounds like social
responsibility to me....

-george



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 13:04:54 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:40:35 PST
Subject: ???

>>  Yes indeed, if we participate in illegal
>>raves we should participate knowing full well what the consequences of our 
>>actions are, but this does NOT mean that those consequences are just or
>>should be tolerated by society.

>..i didn't say that all consequences were just..just the specific case that
>we were talking about..the place was selling liquor w/o a license and not
>only that but selling liquor to minors

Actually, if I remember correctly someone that had been there posted to this 
list and said that there was very little alcohol, that it wasn't being served
AND that it was found under suspiscious circumstanses, i.e. possibly planted
evidence.

>..when u know a high school kid who
>dies after being in a drunk driving accident, and u find out that he got the
>alcohol at a rave such as this, and then some asshole has the nerve to say 
>"nothing like fucking up the judicial process", u just can't let that go..

I don't know about anyone else but I'm not so far away (timewise) from  
being in high school to not be able to remember being responsible for my own
actions.  Of course when given that excuse by an adult I would convieneintly
take it to get in less trouble but all high school kids know about the dangers
of drunk driving and other perrils of society.  I don't mean to suggest that it
wasn't tragic or unfortunate but maybe if he was 10 yrs. old or something I could
understand.

>..in the case i spoke of there weren't any trumped up charges, just real ones

See paragraph 3 (above).

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 14:06:57 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 14:00:49 PST
Subject: Just Add Water & Hope for the Future


Friday nite my friend Grey and I decided to take a trip
to the outdoor Just Add Water rave in 1/2 Moon Bay, figuring
that this might be the last chance to dance under the stars
for a while.  The road off of Rte. 1 that we were supposed
to take was closed for construction.  No problem, we figured
that the planners must of known about this so we just moved
some barriers and drove until we hit the concrete barricades
and parked tractor on the road that made further progress
an impossibility.  Oh, well, might as well take a leak before
heading back to the city.  Then, barely audible above the trickling
sound of our excrement, we heard a telltale thud thud thud in
the distance.  A  short drive back down Rte 1 brought us to some
cars parked in the side of road where we got out into the light 
drizzle and hiked up a hill.

It was an interesting scene; the first tent we came to housed the
sound system and a few strobe light effects.  There were maybe
50-75 youngsters milling about, baggy sweatshirts, backwards
baseball caps, no dancing.  Up the next hill was an Espresso Cafe
tent serving all our favorite caffinated beverages.  No one was buying.
Although it was cold and wet, we decided that the misty hills were
quite nice, as well as the sound system and the music being played,
So we committed ourselves for the evening, just before two police-
persons arrived.  The music was turned down a bit, they took a quick
tour, left and the music was turned back up.  There was still hardly
anyone dancing.  We reasoned that these people were locals somewhat
new to raving.  They were extremely docile standing and figeting
nervously, seeming to be too self conscious to take the chance of
looking silly in front of their peers.  I saw very little alchohol.
Then Grey and I started dancing under their scrutiny, which was kinda 
weird, but before long a few other ravers came out of the darkness 
and also started dancing.  Pretty soon the drizzle stopped, the 
moon and stars came out, and we had a little rave going on.  
Some of the kids began to loosened up, and we felt like we 
had helped break the ice.  I few of them were taken aback when 
Grey started walking up to them just to say "Hi, my name is Grey."  
They recovered quickly though, with a "Hi, how ya doin!".

We ended up having a great time, Carlos played a killer set, as did
someone named "Mal" (Malachai?).  No one ever asked us for any money,
and when I asked around, I was told that it was a free event.
We made friends with one couple of genuine ravers from Fairfax, Wit 
and Mara, who were overflowing with lovable feelings.  When we asked 
them how they found out about this rave they replied, "Well we have this
friend who gets on a computer..."  

To me, this event symbolized hope for the future of the rave scene;
that the message is still spreading out and people are catching on
in a very natural way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________
 


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 14:24:18 1992
From: rej@bob.sal.wisc.edu (Randy Jones)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:04:31 -0600
Subject: Re:  REACTION


>..i didn't say that all consequences were just..just the specific case that
>we were talking about..the place was selling liquor w/o a license and not
>only that but selling liquor to minors..when u know a high school kid who
>dies after being in a drunk driving accident, and u find out that he got the
>alcohol at a rave such as this, and then some asshole has the nerve to say 
>"nothing like fucking up the judicial process", u just can't let that go..

Are you still referring to the Milwaukee rave? There was *no* alcohol 
sold there. Four bottles, possibly planted by the cops, were found outside
the building, and the DJ had two bottles of beer to drink. That was it.

The charges were in fact entirely "trumped up", in the sense that the 
law broken, aiding and abetting an illegal party, is one of literally
hundreds of obscure statutes which are enforced only when the cops choose
to. Basically any assembly of people can be *legally* broken up by the
police at any time. Fire codes and all kinds of health and safety regulations
are selectively enforced to ensure that club and restaurant owners
collectively kiss city government butt. And that any cultural movement
(raves) can be stopped before it grows to be a highly visible alternative
to mass culture. 

Basically, the judicial process is already "fucked". And "illegal" does
not imply "wrong". Maybe the police force wherever you live is relatively
enlightened, so that you haven't had to learn this firsthand. Count
yourself lucky, and remember while vacationing in the real world, police
are not your friends.

P.S. The Daily Cardinal, University of Wisconsin-Madison student newspaper,
just ran a half-page story on the discriminatory behavior of the cops and
the unfairness of the bust. We're going to try not to let this die.

Thanks for listening, 
Randy


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 16:58:43 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 13:38:13 PST
Subject: GGP! FMR? + flyers



FYI, Golden Gate Park was happening yesterday, usual location, 
Carlos and some other dude were spinning.  

Full Moon could be tonight, anybody have any rumors?  Maybe 
Malachy will spread the word earlier now that it's not on the
weekend... 


Stuff for the calendar:

Thursday, November 12th - Rhythym Attic (sic)
	Brothers & Sisters Bond with the Groove
	DJ's Green Wood  Markie Mark
	10pm - 2am, $3
	647 Valencia (above the Elbo Room)

Thursday, November 12th - Unity
	DJ EFX   DJ Digit   DJ Bill Torain
	Live Keyboards and Percussion
	174 King St, 11pm - 6am

Saturday, November 14th - VORTEX
	...a never ending whirlpool of light and sound...
	Josh  Jeno  James  Garth
	*all are welcome*
	(415)337-4988

Thursday, November 19th - the reopening of Deep Faith
	DJs Robbie & Scott Hardkiss and special guest DJ Jeno
	150 Folsom Street

Saturday, November 28th - BASICS
	Josh  Tony  Doran  Jeno  Garth
	(415)905-9629
	$10 before 11:00

Saturdya, November 28th - Love American Style
	Super DJ Dmitri (Deee-Lite)  Keoki  Thomas  
	Jon Williams  Scott Hardkiss  John Kelly
	415.512.5976  213.243.7220
	408.496.9478  916.558.4375

Saturday, November 28th - Funky Tekno Tribe
	tony  josh  dj dan  ernie  spun
	robbie hardkiss  donald glaude  harry who?  la paix
	fresh fruit/ambient chill village/tremors by shredder/visuals by PURE
	415.267.6129  408.236.3790  916.484.3727

Saturday, December 5th - Juice
	in our 35,000 sq.ft. outdoor arena (not DV8!)
	DJ Keoki (NYC), Jon Williams (LA), Josh, Spun, Buck,
	Ghost, Alfie, Sean Perry, DJ Pause
	40 ft bouncy castle
	75 ft projection screen
	all welcome
	415-905-8821  510-464-4601
	916-484-5090  408-984-4092

Saturday, December 19th - Global Rhythm Festival '92
	World House Music Convergence
	San Francisco USA
	415-512-5917

________________________________________________
 Derek Chung			Oracle Graphics	
 dhchung@oracle.com 		  (415)506-6195

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 17:53:19 1992
From: avanderw@us.oracle.com
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 14:21:58 PST
Subject: my visit to NY


hello everybody......TAXI here,

I've just came back from a little trip to Manhattan (East Village) for two
weeks.  I was there to visit my sister, but I did make it to one rave, and two
clubs playing house.  Boy oh boy, the rave scene is different from the SF 
scene.  I actually like the New York scene better than the San Francisco scene
of today.  The New York ravers are younger and don't have anywhere near as much
dancing energy, and are way laid back.  But they are really openly friendly 
people ravers.  The scene is *really* underground over there, unlike the 
current San Francisco scene.  Another thing I noticed is that there was a 
male\female ratio of, in my estimate, 40\60.  Being so used to the Bay Area 
rave ratio of more like 70\30 male\female in my opinion, this took some 
getting used to.

Maybe I just went to the right places, but the raver scene in Manhattan does 
not seem to be commercialized (yet?).  I heard that the Holloween NASA rave 
was a total flop but I went to NASA the next week (in an obscure part of town 
near the Holland Tunnel) and it was kicking, New York style - lovely people 
wearing very funky
rave outfits who didn't seem to have any problem coming up to me to talk or 
share their doobie with me.  Maybe I was just lucky.  Plus the slowest music 
I heard them play is acid house - no disco nor disco house like they seem to 
be playing more and more over here.  Again, maybe I was just lucky.   

Whistles are still IN over there -- I loooove 
whistles, I had forgotton how good they are at energizing the whole crowd.
I'm going to buy a new whistle (a friend of mine borrowed my old one about 7 
months ago) and will probably be tooting skillfully (I'm not one of those 
annoying whistlers who can only blow it for a minimum of 2 seconds at a time -
sexual innuendo not intended) in raves to come.

The after hours places are quite underground.  This after*party place 
called, "Save the Robots" doesn't even have any sign from the outside hinting
anyone of its existence.  The after*after*party place whose name I can't recall
looks like it's part of a regular residential block - there is absolutely no
hint from the outside that it even exists.

I still have to check out the raves at  Brooklyn and the Bronx, maybe next 
summer.

Well, I'm back in the Bayrea and wondering how things have 
stayed the same/changed.  I've only been away for 2 weeks but it seems like a 
lot longer.

- TAXI

ps. I had a really amazingly good time at Freedom Harvest where I felt like 
    everything was surreal, partly due to the magnificent view.  It was so fun
    helping that passed out dude off the island - I was taking it seriously
    but I was also having fun helping him maybe because it was sooo dreamlike.
    Hi Geoff - you didn't even seem to recognize me when I came to your 
    assistance in helping that guy.  Who says you can't have fun while helping?

    But I was only helping him for about what felt like 1/100th of my time 
    at Freedom Harvest because I felt like I was almost everywhere at the same
    time.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 19:53:18 1992
From: Jonathan Steuer <chance@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:01:27 -0800
Subject: London rave report

Hey all-

Well, I've been in London since Friday morning and I'm still on 
California time. Of course, this makes it quite easy to go out until 
early/late, even with no further physiological assistance. ;-)

Anyway, Saturday night we went out to a couple of different 
parties. The first was a regular club-event called Chemistry. It 
seems to be a regular, every Saturday night from 10-4, 6 pounds 
($9) admission. It was in a space called the Soundshaft, which is in 
the back half of a club called Heaven, off Dering Street near 
Charing Cross station. Great music; not quite as hard as much of 
the current crop in SF, with a bit more of the wailing Diva thing 
happening. The mixing was generally excellent, though one of the 
three DJ's was not quite up to it. No names; sorry. Tomorrow night 
I'm going to check out a DJ competition--more on this afterwards.

In general, the rave scene (if you want to call it that) here is quite 
different from both what the SF scene is like now, and what the 
London scene was like when I was last here three and a half years 
ago. Big raves (say, over 1000) have all but disappearred; there's the 
occasional one-off, but in general, they seem much smaller than the 
current Bay Area average.

In order to circumvent the restrictions that apply to "public houses" 
(bars, public clubs) here, many of the weeklies present themselves 
as private, members-only clubs, in which one pays a one-time fee 
(say fifteen pounds) for a membership card, and then can attend 
each week. Many also offer "temporary memberships" for a few 
quid at the door, at least in the early part of the evening. This seems 
to change the dynamic somewhat, making the events more like 
Alternity or Connection than, say, Sharon or ToonTown or what 
have you. The crowd on Saturday night was extremely friendly; 
many people came up to talk to me spontaneously (many to 
complement me on my Free Pee Wee t-shirt), and all were pleased 
to hear that there was a "scene" in San Francisco.

Chemical preference is quite similar to that in the Bay Area; lots of 
"E" floating around; I put that in quotes because I don't think most 
of it is actually unadulterated MDMA. Of course, I have no idea 
what it really _is_, but I'll pass the word on if I find out. There is 
also a healthy contingent of paper-eaters here; rumor has it that 
some of each substance is produced domestically but the bulk 
comes from Amsterdam (no surprise there...). A brief pupil-check 
around the crowd yielded a high FQ (Fry Quotient), probably in the 
75% range, with most of those on E.

Probably the main difference, however, is that there is no longer 
any distinction here between "rave" music and "normal" popular 
dance music. As someone guessed the other day, the Shamen _are_ 
at the top of the charts; apparrently Ebeneezer Goode (ebenE'S ARE 
GOODe) was number one for a long time; The Grid, The Orb, and 
The Future Sound of London have also been extremely popular, to 
name but a few. A trip to the Virgin Megastore, HMV, or Tower 
Records (the 3 big-big-big record outlets here) yields a very large 
selection of Hip-Hop/Soul/Dance CD's, as well as a huge section of 
12" singles. Tomorrow, one of my friends is taking me to the 
smaller DJ-only record shops around town. I'm pretty broke, but I 
could honor a few specific take-out requests if there's something 
somebody wants--but I won't be back until 7 December and you'll 
have to pay me back...

If this is a glimpse of the future of the SF scene, things actually look 
pretty good!

Ta Ta for Now-

Chauncey

ncey


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 20:11:37 1992
From: bizhant@gene.com (Bizhan Tabatabaian)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 19:28:02 -0800
Subject: FMR phone tree...???

I there is an FMR in the next couple o' days (and I'm sure there will be),
could would someone please call me and let me know where it is? I don't
have computer access after work hours. You just have to leave a message
at 415.225.6067.

Thanks in advance
Bizhan
bizhant@genie.gene.com

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 23:16:13 1992
From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:09:03 -0800
Subject: A long time gone. . .

Hey, one and all JAMMs, just to let you know there is still life outside the
Big Bay, this one has been on the road to ElA for over two weeks.  What a
happy (and slightly scarey!) thing to come home to over 750K of sfraves
mail.  And that accumulated from 25OCT to 09NOV!  Us folks do like to write!
 I have undertaken the prodigious task of reading all that good news in one
sitting (yes, it is true--my eyes are red enough as I write this).  Many
fine postings--I even dig the flames {they burn hotly on the heels of the
few}.  As I write, I am listening to a great tune by THE PRODIGY "G Force"--
hardcare high cycle style.

There is life in the LA rave scene--even in (gasp!) Orange County.  Yes,
the humble narrator did attend a bitchin rave in Little Saigon in the heart
of the land of the Republican autarchy.  This was a truly fab little thing
that I literally stumbled onto while cruising the neighborhoods after a
grand VietNamese dinner with some hip Lagunan friends.

This one is very tired now after my eyes have feasted on your many and
various words.  But, I'm revved to be back home, and I will be posting
several messages (sorry in advance for those of you averse to mailbox
"clutter") on such topics as:

* KCOP/Channel 13 does a 3 day story on LA party crews
* Raving in Little Saigon
* A review of _Zoo_Rave_1
* A review of _Only_For_The_Headstrong_
* The burning question:  Why can't I get a good turntable?
* A very ex post facto review of the late October Wicked (Yes I was there)

Peace to all, in this, the post-Reagan era.

brycer@well.sf.ca.us
Temporary Autonomous Zone 42

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov  9 22:12:22 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 22:07:44 -0800
Subject: mail woes and the Full Moon Rave


	If any of you have been having trouble with the address sfraves@soda,
it's because we're going through a dreaded IP address change (from 
128.32.131.179 to 128.32.149.19) and the propagation of that change
hasn't reached everywhere yet (including medisg.stanford.edu, which
means no one here at soda has seen any sfraves mail today. :)  It
should be working fine now for most sites, but if you're still getting
bounces sfraves@mediusg.stanford.edu will work.  In a few days this should 
be moot.  I am keeping track of what has happened over the past day 
through another account on campus...

	On a lighter and better note - the FMR is tonight!  (I made a mistake
in the calendar when I thought it would be on Tuesday).  I wanted to
wait until 11 to post this but I'm confident enough in the site that this
won't be too much of a problem.  It's NOT in Santa Cruz.  It's at 
Waterfront Park in the Berkeley Marina.  To get there, take the 80
North from the bay bridge, exit University and head towards the marina.
Turn right at the end of university. follow the road as it bends to the
left, and park as close to the end as possible.  From the very end go 
about 150 yards north and you're there.  It should be completely safe
and a lot of fun.  Dress warmly!!!!  Don't arrive before 1am...

	Brian



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 20:55:58 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:48:11 -0800
Subject: FMR party - moonlight and chocolate and cops, oh my!


	Well, due to a possible power outage last night due to medisg getting
unplugged around 11:30 (!), I'm not sure if my directions got to anyone until
this morning - if you were waiting on them and didn't get them until the 
morning my apologies, because it was a really great night.

	The story starts the day of Come/Unity.  I was sitting in an office on
campus trying to think of good locations.  There was a map of Berkeley on the
wall I was studying furiously - I was thinking of space behind the campus in
Tilden or something, when my eye darted towards the Marina.  I noticed a HUGE
squarish open space with absolutely nothing on it.  What the hell was that?

	So the morning after Come/Unity I still had lotsa energy and decided
to check it out for myself.  I parked my car on the road that ran alongside
this space (officially called "waterfront park") and walked to the top of
one of the hills there.  What I saw reminded me a lot of Ireland - grassy,
gently rolling hills, patches of bushes here and there, etc.  It was about
a half-mile square, and surrounded on three sides by water, and on the fourth
by a hotel parking lot and boatyard.  There were picnic table!  And bathrooms!
And concrete paths!  I walked around some more and came across an amphitheatre-
like cove, with a bed of thick lawn grass and two picnic tables, on the west
side.  The view was marvelous - You could see the Bay Bridge, the city, 
the Golden Gate, and Marin all at once.  The place was perfectly clean, and
the shape of the hills convinced me that the sound of the speakers could
be kept from bothering the hotel and marina.  Welcome to one of the few
Perfect Sites (tm) in the Bay Area, I said to myself.  (Bonny Doon being
one, Baker Beach being another, etc.)

	I returned to the location 4 times over the next week, staying for up
to an hour each time, in the middle of the night.  There had to be some 
reason this site had not yet been used - did it turn into a gang hangup or
a drug Price Club at night?  The only people there when I went to check it
out were the occasional couples gone to "park".  I did some sound checks with
a boombox and became more and more convinced that this cove would shield
sound appropriately.

	It took quite a bit of coaxing, but I eventually got Allen out to
the site to look at it on Monday afternoon.  He loved it.

	Monday night I arrived at about 12, with a bundle of flyers I had
printed up saying, "Please park intelligently.  Do NOT park in the hotel
parking lot.  For our sake and yours, do not bring any alcohol to the site.
Be careful of the rocks, and watch out for each other.  Have fun!  PEACE"
There was free and legal parking along the road bordering the park and 
leading to it from the freeway, so as long as people parked along it it could
hold maybe 300 cars.  (yes, I paced it out one night before and everything.)
I got into the parking lot with my flashlight and flyers and started telling
people where to park.  I was joined by Geoff and Derek, and the three of us
helped ensure that people "parked intelligently".  George Herbert had also
brought four headset-walkie-talkies and some first aid stuff.  Now all we
needed were ravers and a sound system. :)

	The sound system arrived characteristically late, at around 1:30. 
Still no sign of cops, but there were maybe 60 cars there, meaning 150-200
people.  They drove the van along the concrete path to the cove to unload 
the equipment.  I figured that we were about 20 minutes away from the magical
Point of No Return - or maybe Critical Mass would be a better term.  

	Right as I thought that a cop car came screeching around the corner.
The three of us directing traffic and handing flyers to each car darted into
the trees, removing our headsets.  The cop car passed towards the parking 
lot at the end of the road - it stopped for a second and was approached by
someone.  We saw but did not hear them talk, the cop car drove around the 
parking lot, and left.  Wha???  A second car approached, this time one without
a light bar, and did the same thing.  I approached the guy who talked to the
cop, and he said he told the cop that this was just a get-together of people,
who wanted to dance, there was no alcohol, it was free, and they had a sound
system.  He said the cop was pretty mellow about it... yay!  The guy has been
going to things like this for three years, so he was definitely the right
person to talk to the cop.  :)

	So the three of us went back to working traffic.  About 20 minutes
later the music had started.  Completely silent from where I was, which was
near the hotel parking lot.  Absolutely perfect.

	About 5 minutes later another cop car pulls up and removes the 
barricades to driving up the concrete path on the east side of the park.
He stayed on that road until it came around to where people were, on the
west side.  I was not there when the cop arrived but I would have paid big
money to see the expression on his face.  :):)  It got relayed to me by a 
couple of people who talked to him that the cop was simply interested in
what was going on, that he walked around looking for alcohol (or any other 
"obvious" drugs), talked to a few people, and left.  A few more cars came
and went, and for most of the night there was a cop car parked on the edge
of the party watching things.  But the cop was mainly nonthreatening, so
his presence really didn't hurt what was going on.  No busts were made, and
I swear at one point I looked at the cop to see his head bob ever so
slightly in time with the music...  from what I could gather from other 
people, it seemed like they were genuinely impressed with what was going on.
I approached one cop as he was checking out the cars in the parking lot,
and gave him one of the flyers, saying "this was being handed out to cars 
pulling up.  I thought you'd like one". The cops said, and I've _never_
heard a cop say this - "thanks".  

	Okay, so enough with the legal shtuff.  The cops left around 5 and
the sound guys cranked the bass a little.  :)  There were I would guess
about 400 people there (I wonder how many went down to Bonny Doon?), 
including just about all the "regulars" I see at every Gathering/basics/
wicked etc...  I walked around handing out chocolate mints to people, and
out of maybe 2 dozen people I offered to, only one asked, "you didn't put
anything in this, did you?" (I didn't).  People came up and gave me random
hugs, some for the chocolate, some for the orange juice I had later, some
even for the flyer I had handed out!  I even spent a significant amount
of time helping some people through their first eXperience, and that was
personally very rewarding.  Many people spent a lot of time at water's edge
looking out at the gorgeous view of the city (NO FOG AT ALL) and the
bridges.  There was still a majority of the people there when the sun broke,
and Markie Mark's spinning was the best I've ever heard him do.

	You'll all find this funny - I was talking to Carlos, the DJ, about
the gig he did down in Santa Cruz and comparing that to Sharon/Caspar the
same night.  He said the former really picked up his spirits after DJ'ing
the latter.  He then told him how I thought his dual-Mighty Ming combo
was pretty cool when it worked, and he said yeah, someone had passed onto him
a fax from somewhere of someone saying exactly the same thing... after a little
more talk I realized that Craig Larson had passed onto him both my review of
Lighthouse 2 and M Normals'!  He said that when he got that message it made
his day, and he has it hanging up on his wall in his room!  

	Morning came, the music ended around 9, and again we left the place...
relatively spotless.  If I ever see another cigarette butt in my entire life
it'll be too soon.  I wasn't the last to leave but I must say it was pretty
darn spotless when I left.  I did notice, though, that the center of the 
dance floor had been transformed from a thickly grassed field to a patch of
dead grass and dirt which will probably take a few months to grow back. :(

	As I was leaving I struck up a conversation with someone who ended
up being one of the maintenance workers at the park.  He LOVED what was going
on, and convinced his supervisers to be easygoing and let the party go on 
until 9, which it did, and to let the van drive back to pick up the equipment.
He said that even though we couldn't get a permit for the location at night,
that the cops seemed to not mind what was going on, and that as long as we
dealt with parking and cleaning up and stuff, we could probably return every
few months with little or no trouble.

	All in all, a very good night for me.  I was overjoyed to see people
enjoy the site so much.  Maybe I should have saved it for Connection 2, but
I'd rather risk their equipment first to make sure it's okay... :)

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 20:56:32 1992
From: gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:50:24 PST
Subject: Re:  So, how was FMR?



> what happened at FMR? Did nobody go, or is
> everybody who went in jail or something???

And i alone am escaped to tell the tale?

Geez, i hope not.  i've been sick (seems its going around) and wasn't
planning to go, but when i found out it was right here in Berkeley i
couldn't resist.  i left round 4:30 to crash and heal some more, and
the crowd was still getting bigger.  Maybe 400-500 people?

	i really liked the location, except for the cops.  There's a 
hotel nearby, but you go over a ridge from there to get to the FMR
site, and that almost entirely cut off the noise -- no neighbors to
bother.  And the view of the city was fantastic!  Totally clear, with
all those lights shimmering across the bay.  Grassy ground, some
concrete for those needing a hard surface, and even some picnic tables
to dance on.
	Oh yeah, the cops.  Not sure when they started showing up, but
once they did, they didn't shut anything down (at least not while i was
there).  A cop car would pull up on this access road right next to the
water (and the rave) and sit there for a while then leave, come back,
another cop car shows up (at one point i think there were four), cops
get out, sometimes they'd walk through the crowd -- didn't see them
harass anybody, but it did make me and i'm sure others uncomfortable.
i hope nothing bad happened after i left -- perhaps they realized 
letting it happen was the best course of action.

	Like i said, i was sick  :( (and also consequently straight), so
i'm disqualifying myself from rendering a "how good was it?" opinion.
Still had fun though :)  Only people i saw from the list were Geoff and
somebody whose name i can't remember (sorry) and who i couldn't see very
well anyway, he kept moving so fast :)  But i'm sure there were others -- 
speak up y'all!


P.S. If anybody saw a guy wearing a big overcoat with lots of layers that
kinda flow around when its danced in, and that looks like some sort of cross between a military uniform and a vampire cape, looking like it was leftover
from Halloween (which it was), but can only be danced in when its really
cold out (oh by the way which it also was), that was me.

					Gregg

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 22:20:35 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 15:07:56 PST
Subject: ???

I know of 2 episodes where friends of mine got very depressed at the end of E trips.  I'm
not their psycotherapist but they always were and still are somewhat normal non-depressed
types.  Still, 2 out of how many?  Obviously not real common.  Another time a fight broke
out at a party and a martial artist friend on E almost did a lot more than subdue the
agressor.  Afterwards he tripped real hard in a depressive manner about almost badly
maiming another person.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 22:55:54 1992
From: girard@hyperion.informix.com (Girard Chandler)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:22:19 PST
Subject: Re: help

> i just bought SONIC RECORDS' killer techno last nite (this comp. may be quite
> old) and i was a bit disappointed.  
> 
> can u help me?

I was surprised by Rising High Techno Injection, which I picked up
a couple of weeks ago.  For a (relatively) cheap domestic it's not 
too bad.  Not everything is completely new but it's got new stuff
I liked from The Hypnotist, Energy Zone, Project 1 and others.  
It's got fair amount of ambient/trance/dance, which I prefer.  This 
compilation is from the same people who printed Killer Techno 
(Instinct Records.)

-Girard

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 10 23:18:15 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:10:32 -0800
Subject: Re:  So, how was FMR?

Yeah, I was really bummed that my cold caught up with me, and I decided that
valor required my staying at home and sleeping (at night rather than when
the rest of us vampires sleep :) .  Not real thrilled to hear about the
cops, but not surprised; doesn't sound like they hasseled anyone except by
being around.  Hope it was good for all involved.

Paul

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 01:59:01 1992
From: "Peter Tuff"                                <TUK%IAEA1.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu>
Date:    Wed, 11 Nov 92 10:48 CET
Subject: An Outsider's Request

Hi, I'm Peter in Vienna, Austria, and I know nothing about RAVES even th
o' I lived in the City for 8 years!  (I guess I was too busy going to
the opera... occasionally the Plush Room for the jazz/cabaret scene.)
May I hog enough bandwidth to say that it's been refreshing hearing
anything about the Bay Area scene for a homesick Californian in Austria.
Thanks for listening.

Peter Tuff
IAEA, Vienna
tuk@iaea1.bitnet

P.S.  Does anyone talk to my friend Tom Lanham who reviews concerts for
the Pink Section and other mags, etc.????????

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 10:16:33 1992
From: steve@mtxinu.com (spiral freshness)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 10:06:34 -0800
Subject: One More FMR report..

	 Hi, steve here. (one of the many)  Monday night was my friend's 
	 Birthday and he really wanted to go to a rave.  He didn't know that
	 there was going to be a FMR and when I let him know about it he was
	 overjoyed at his astrological good fortune.  Anyway, we both set our
	 alarms for 12:50, (we both live about 10 mins. from the site:) and
	 we were psyched.  When my alarm went off I was having an amazing
	 dream, that I was part Tyrone Slothrop from Gravity's Rainbow, part
	 George Zorn from the Illuminatus Trilogy, and part me.  Does this
	 happen to anyone else when they wake themselves up before going out?
	 Sorry, I digress.  I put on long underwear, pants, two t-shirts, a
	 sweat shirt, a gortex shell, and a funky velvet, and I was just warm
	 enough to stand around.  When we rolled up about 1:15, there were 
	 already lots of people parking and milling about.  Brian handed us one
	 of his "parking and be cool" flyers and we got one of the last sweet
	 parking spots, (actually, as far as parking goes, this place is ideal.)
	 When we reached the site we were overwhelmed by the beauty of the 
	 scene.  NO FOG!  Can you believe how rare that is?  Gorgeous moon,
	 glittering city.  Amazing!  The music started with this guy talking
	 about acid, it was pretty amusing.  I agree that the music at first
	 was kind of mellow.  I wouldn't mind this as much, but it was damn
	 cold and I really wanted to get moving.  Soon, I spotted Gregg in his
	 sweet vampire cape and things were totally rockin.  Anyway, the police
	 seemed menacing at first and whenever a new cop car would roll up
	 you could see a type of reaction from the crowd.  But, then it became
	 obvious that they were just checking us out.  I personally didn't
	 see one beer bottle, which was very cool.  There was a very good vibe
	 and it was hard to pull myself away, but alas, I had to be at work at
	 8:30.  Man, the life of a wage slave can sure get you down.  So, I
	 exited around 4-4:30 and saw Brian with his orange juice. (Thanks
	 Brian, we needed that.)  He heckled us a little for leaving early, 
	 but i can understand why he was puzzeled; It was an ideal evening
	 despite the cold.  Ok.  Sorry this was so long.
	 Adios Folks..
	 steve (one of the many) aka spiral freshness

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 10:16:55 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 10:04:39 PST
Subject: Re:  shirts

i'll help you find a vapo-rub shirt if you help me find
a mint blue Scope mouthwash shirt.  8)

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 11:26:52 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 11:19:11 PST
Subject: re: help

>> i just bought SONIC RECORDS' killer techno last nite (this comp. may be quite
>> old) and i was a bit disappointed.  
>> 
>> can u help me?
>
>I was surprised by Rising High Techno Injection, which I picked up
>a couple of weeks ago.  For a (relatively) cheap domestic it's not 
>too bad.  Not everything is completely new but it's got new stuff
>I liked from The Hypnotist, Energy Zone, Project 1 and others.  
>It's got fair amount of ambient/trance/dance, which I prefer.  This 
>compilation is from the same people who printed Killer Techno 
>(Instinct Records.)
>
>-Girard

actually, there is a _church of extacy_ song (church of extacy) on 
this comp which is pretty rippin'.  instinct records is a subsidiary
of sonic records (or the other way around - i can't remember :) and
i would expect that the two comps would be similar.  you're right -
this one's 'not too bad' either, just somewhat of a letdown.  i am 
looking for hard-edged techno with an "industrial edge".  whatever
that means d8).  thanx for the tip.  anyone else have any suggestions?

-mark.  d8)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 11:56:28 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 11:46:56 PST
Subject: apple stuff


to the guy who had a question about _Apple Design Group_ i lost 
your address, so mail me again.

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 12:20:12 1992
From: tahl@tfs.com (Tahl Milburn)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 12:16:02 PST
Subject: Re:  shirts

I could groove on one of those vapo-rub shirts too.  Maybe we could do our
own if we come up dry.  Andy move over! he we come....

Tahl

Then we could wear the aroma of our fav' shirt.  Talking about a gas....

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 13:11:44 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 13:51:13 MST
Subject: Poll

Please answer and return this form to pashdown@slack.sim.es.com:

1. I know who Meat Beat Manfesto is:
2. I know who Orbital is:
3. I know who Ultramarine is:
4. I have heard Meat Beat Manifesto:
5. I have heard Orbital:
6. I have heard Ultramarine:
7. I own Meat Beat Manifesto music:
8. I own Orbital music:
9. I own Ultramarine music:
10. Aside from anything else (whether they are in a rave or not), I would pay
    $____ to see these three bands play together.
11. I am paying $____ to see these three bands play together.
12. This doesn't interest me at all, but if it was a rave, I would go:

Thanks!
Pete (very nervous right now)

From mark@ganymede.apple.com Wed Nov 11 13:55:11 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 13:32:14 PST
Subject: Re:  Poll

i know who mbm is and would like to only have to pay about $12 for this 
show.  i know of and have heard orbital and like them.  have heard of
ultramarine, but don't know what they sound like.  mbm rips and i am 
definitely going.  i hope it is not capitalized upon and the cover turns
into $20 or $25 dollars.  but i am definitely going as are friends of mine.

are you promoting this show?  i wouldn't be too worried if i were you. :)
oh, and i own mbm music.  my girlfriend actually owns it.  

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 14:23:42 1992
From: paul@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Paul T.)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 12:35:50 PST
Subject: Re: shirts

> 
> 	So, along those lines, does anyone know where
> I could get a lime-green and flourescent blue Vicks 
> Vapo-Rub t-shirt?  I'd pay any price.
> 
	The store Anubis Warpus in Santa Cruz claims to have shirts that
change color with your body temperature BTW.

--Paul T.



-- 

From socal-raves-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Nov 11 15:39:42 1992
From: pdm@ucrmath.ucr.edu (paul moore)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 15:21:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Shamen in LA

On Nov 10, I finally got around to reading:
>see i went with joachim vance and he parked his car in a nice safe little
>parking structure that we for some reason thought was going to stay open
>all night... little did we know that huge iron gates decend over the
>entrance/exit to this structure at 1:30 am

Is it the one a block ot the left of the Park Plaza entrance?  I got
shut in there once too but was able to find some guy who could open
the place up..

>well there was a park across the street from the place where the shamen 
>performed, maybe there might be some un-safe, but mostly deserted part of the
>park that would be okay to crash at

  MacArthur Park!  Someone left the cake out in the rain....  I won't
go in there even in the daytime.

paul

From socal-raves-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Nov 11 16:05:06 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:21:49 PST
Subject: here it is... K-RAVE AMERICA!!!

OK, here's the flyer:

(Front side, shaped like America)

Knott's Berry Farm
December 31, 1992
K-RAVE AMERICA
New Years Eve

(Back Side)

NATIONAL
1-800-4-RAVE-LINE

NEW YORK			WORLD WIDE!
212 366-6605								

LOS ANGELES
213 891-2699 OR 213 486-4199		USA! CALIFORNIA!

Leading the nation to New Frontiers

RIDES AND ATTRACTIONS WILL BE OPEN!
STAY TUNED FOR THE COUNTDOWN!
PERFORMANCES AND DJS TO BE ANNOUNCED


There are also 2 promoter logos, one says destructo and the other is a
deer or rabbit.

The Prodigy is rumored to be one of the bands there.  (Rumored by
these 2 girls Gunther and I know from Livermore who met Liam last 
summer.  Take it with a grain of salt...)

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 16:48:57 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 16:40:30 PST
Subject: Re: More comments...


	I don't have any books with me, but this is what I 
remember from the Psych paper I did on Ecstasy last year...
	MDMA is not a "hallucinogen" or an "amphetamine",
both of which it is commonly classified as, but one of a
different class of drugs known as "entactogens".  This name
was coined by a scientist in 1986 (the name escapes me, but
he was one of the more open-minded ones researching X before
it became illegal).
	It was invented in 1914 in Germany to be used as an
appetite suppressant, but taken off the market later (maybe
because customers were acting silly? (:).
	What's actually in a wafer that you buy at a club may
include everything from methadone to sister entactogens such
as MDA to aspirin.  It's almost never Purex :) though (although
the stuff I did at Apocalypse last year sure felt damn close).
   [ 8)   8)  8)  ahhh....nostalgia......8)  8)  8)  ]
	Is this the kind of info you're looking for? That's all
 I know (I'm only a cinema major).  Anybody else?

	Jim  :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 18:35:07 1992
From: mico@oas.olivetti.com (Michele Costabile)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:29:21 PST
Subject: FMR party - moonlight etc.


Hi,

my greatest appreciation to Brian for the pains he took in chooosing the
place: it was perfect under every respect.
You may have noticed a guy with a black motorcycle jacket and a backpack
smiling like a fool at 7 in front of a speaker.
That was me, and the cause of such happiness was not chemical :) only
the excitement of being there really enjoying myself, with people really
enjoying themselves in an awe inspiring place.
The sight of the city surrounded by the bay bridge on one side and the
Golden Gate on the other is not usual for me, (I do not live here) and I
appreciated it particularly, during the night with the moon reflecting
on the water and at dawn with the buildings going through different shades
of pink.
I particularly like seeing the daylight when the party is still going on,
like at the whalesong: it gives an incredible sense of strength when
you are still dancing and the night "gives up" and the shine of a new day
prepares to add energy.
That feeling is even stronger in the open.
The wonderful sight added excitement.
And of course the music and the people were the main excitement.
I experienced at the whalesong and particularly at Berkeley a
strange feeling that I am still trying to understand further: it is a
physical yoy, in the sense that it is not born in the cortical region of the
brain but rather in the vegetative system: the fierce wild joy of being
alive and strong.
It happens at dawn.
I think I was happy like one of the dogs that were playing on the
grass running among people as they did not exist.
In this sense I am saying it was physical, animal.
It surprised me and struck me from the deepest of my body: I was
totally unquestionably happy of being alive surrounded with beauty.
For this reason, since I was happy like an animal or a child i.e.
100% and not in a given percentage, I think it is not overstating to
say that it was one of the greatest joys of my entire life because
it is so rare to be filled with a single feeling at a time.
My neurons must have been like atoms in a laser, dancing in
unison at the same frequency rather than in their usual chaotic state.
Joy is rarer and more precious when age, work and problems make life
more complicated and the sources of stress multiply.
And I am blase` ans skeptic enough to be excited by this feeling that is
somewhat still with me.
I am preparing to pack to go back to Europe and can imagine no better
way to say goodbye to San Francisco.
So thanks, thanks, thanks, and ... happy happy joy joy to all!

Michele

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 18:47:24 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:38:55 -0800
Subject: Re:  FMR party - moonlight etc.


I'd say that Michele's definitely "got it".

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 19:17:03 1992
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 12:34:44 PST
Subject: ???

On page 6 of the Daily Cal. Leopolds records has a half page add for
"Rave 'til Dawn" a compilation featuring: Jump - The Movement, 
Injected with a poison - Praga Khan, Get Ready For This - 2 unlimited,
and Stylophonia - 2 Little Boys.  There add also mentions that they
carry House, Techno, Trance and live DJ mixes down stairs.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 19:17:13 1992
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 11:43:42 PST
Subject: ???

More cool Berkeley cops at FMR news.  Those who read my earlier post
may remember that my friends and I lamely fell asleep while waiting to
go to the FMR.  Well, one of my friends woke up around 3:30 and decided
to go home.  Before going home, however, he went by to see how things
were going at the Marina.  When he drove up the cops said that they
weren't letting anyone through.  He quickly responded with "but my boat's
down there!" (used to be true, now it's in Oakland) and they said "Oh, o.k."
and let him through.  He checked out the scene briefly and then left.  While
he was leaving but still in the Marina he got pulled over.  "You know why I'm
stopping you don't you" "No, why?"  "The tail lights of your van are out and
so is one headlight."  "Dude, WHAT!?!"  Don gets out, jiggles some wires, and
the tail lights go on.  "Now how are they?"  "Oh, they're on now but the
headlight is still out."  Don walks to the front and bangs the headlight once.
It goes on.  "Oh, now your o.k.  These are great old vans, aren't they?"
"Ya, are you guys (police) here because of the rave?"  "Ya, but were just
maintaining a presence.  Ravers are real cool.  No trouble at all, they just
like to dance all night.  Verry peaceful."  Yes!  I was psyched when Don told
me this and I thought you'd all like to hear about it.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 19:19:57 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 19:12:47 -0800
Subject: Berkeley cops

If they think ravers are so cool, why were they keeping people from
entering the Marina?

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 20:19:10 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 20:15:00 -0800
Subject: leopold


                                                                       
>carry House, Techno, Trance and live DJ mixes down stairs.

>-Mark

the djs are the same guys who asked me to post the directions to the
party they sorta threw a few weeks back - you remember, the one that

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 20:47:24 1992
From: leigh@briet.berkeley.edu (harriet espion)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 20:42:11 -0800
Subject: I've heard rumors

thanks for cc'ing me in periodically,
and thanks to mw@sybase for alerting
me to this discussion on sfraves.

I don't have time to read mail these
days so I left sfraves till I get some
work done but with regard to people
becoming unusually violent after /
during Experiences, um, I have a 
couple friends who've been around
it since before it was scheduled, and
they avoid it like the plague now.
it makes them harsh and unpleasant,
and if you don't want to spend an evening
being harsh and unpleasant and making fun
of other people in a very catty way, then
why bother to spend the money ?

hey, I can be catty without spending a dime

my opinion, based *soley* on what I've
witnessed over the past eight years is
that after a certain point it's just
no fun anymore.  which is probably
a good thing in the health department
in the long run.

sorry to just plop this into the discussion,
but just because of my age and all I thought
my perspective and the experiences of a 
couple people I hang out with might be
useful to the "youngsters" on the list,
and yes, you'll be more than welcome to
visit me in the nursing home in the future

--saint@soda << ha
  leigh@briet.berkeley.edu

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 21:04:26 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 21:00:10 -0800
Subject: Re:  Berkeley cops

>If they think ravers are so cool, why were they keeping people
>from entering the Marina?

I think because they feared it getting larger, or the Oaktown homies finding out
about it, etc....

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 22:55:50 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 22:51:50 -0800
Subject: leopold again


i don't know what the hell happened, but my post somehow got cut off.
hmmmm... well, the djs are friends of mine and they're good.  at least
the djs i know are.  i guess there's a rap dj, a reggae dj, and then
my friends who do housey and trancey stuff.  actually, one of them just
quit and the other just sprained his ankle, so he won't be mixing for a
little while.  but, there's another guy i know who djs and he'll be doing
it there.  what i'm getting to here is that rob (sprained ankle) said
that there will still be some cool mixing, so anyone interested should
still go check it out.  that's the guy who made the tape with the "house
that jack built" speech that i typed up.  grrrrroooovy.  yeah.  well, 
anyway, if ya wanna check things out, rob said it's cool.  i have
fun listening to him and going to raves with him, so i trust his
opinion.  i think.  if this letter is all wacked, it's either because
people are distracting me and i keep losing my train of thought or
because something is wrong with my computer.  dunno.

did my post get sent out to everyone else normally but me?  i hope 
not, since this is all a repeat.

BTW, i'm very glad everyone had such a beautiful time at FMR.  kinda
like the way i felt at the basics before last.  still sad i wasn't
there to share it with y'all.  there's always next time.  any suggestions
for this weekend?  it's been a while since that particular basics, and
i'm really ready to have another wonderful and gorgeous night.  not
that that can be planned, but i'm still hoping.  A2 was great because i
got to meet so many people, but, well, i think you all knowwhatimean.
hope i see some of you soon, and thanks in advance for any insight you
might be able to offer for the upcoming fri and sat nights.....

always, leah


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 23:18:12 1992
From: ccowboy%ble%boo@ns.pacbell.com (Console Cowboy)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 20:55:43 PST
Subject: drop it


>        Everyone who was busted should EACH ask for an INDIVIDUAL JURY
>trial - nothing like fucking up the entire judicial process with 800
>individual cases... :)

..what originally irked me about the statement was the act of "fucking up"
something to just get your kicks (or smileys in this case)..that's the way
i interpreted it..on another note, it seems increasingly difficult to
present a different opinion here w/o reing pounced upon..

>You are so defensive and argumentative that you
>obviously didn't even try to understand the points
>that your respondents made.  I call upon others

..whatever..i make one argument for my opinion and *you* pounce on me..
sheesh..nobody's wrong or right..its a discussion for chrissakes..

>an attitude that is more in tune with the kind of
>us-and-them negative thinking than the open, inquiring

..there *is* an us-and-them..u just have to remember that there is a "them"
out there..according to a majority here, raves are good never bad..there is
another side whether u admit it or not..raves are not always peaceful as
evidenced from a recent shooting..

>Are you still referring to the Milwaukee rave? There was *no* alcohol 
>sold there. Four bottles, possibly planted by the cops, were found outside
>the building, and the DJ had two bottles of beer to drink. That was it.

..its always good to get the real facts if in fact this is the case..i am
in the wrong here then for this specific case..

>The charges were in fact entirely "trumped up", in the sense that the 
>law broken, aiding and abetting an illegal party, is one of literally
>hundreds of obscure statutes which are enforced only when the cops choose

>Basically, the judicial process is already "fucked". And "illegal" does
>not imply "wrong". Maybe the police force wherever you live is relatively

..i never said anything about illegal == wrong..shit, dropping tabs is
illegal but its not wrong..any crime can be seen as not wrong by somebody..

>enlightened, so that you haven't had to learn this firsthand. Count
>yourself lucky, and remember while vacationing in the real world, police
>are not your friends.

..i understand your attitude but you're lecturing to the wrong person..
..police overseas in certain countries can be more than just "not your
friends" especially to foreigners..so someone else must be "vactationing"
in the real world k?

>P.S. The Daily Cardinal, University of Wisconsin-Madison student newspaper,
>just ran a half-page story on the discriminatory behavior of the cops and
>the unfairness of the bust. We're going to try not to let this die.

..go for it..more pwr to u..

>Thanks for listening, 

ditto..

--
Please send any replies here: ccowboy%ble%boo@pacbell.com


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 23:24:07 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:16:48 -0800
Subject: Re:  FMR party - moonlight etc.

I'd have to agree.  Michele has "got it."  Rave on, sister!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 23:26:27 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:21:12 -0800
Subject: FMR and aftermath

I'm really psyched that the cops were so kewl.  Yet another incident to
convince me of the reality of raving.  I was standing at the corner of Van
Ness and Sutter in the City waiting for the light to change, when a cop car
drove past on Van Ness, and the guy sitting shotgun leans outta the window ,
smiles, and flashes me a peace sign!  I tell ya, them as what's lookin for
it, find it.  Peace to all.
Paul

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 11 23:45:39 1992
From: ccowboy%ble%boo@ns.pacbell.com (Console Cowboy)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 21:10:09 PST
Subject: show this side too

>"Ya, are you guys (police) here because of the rave?"  "Ya, but were just
>maintaining a presence.  Ravers are real cool.  No trouble at all, they just
>like to dance all night.  Verry peaceful."  Yes!  I was psyched when Don told
>me this and I thought you'd all like to hear about it.

..thanx mark for this one..its good to see, lo and behold, another side to
the fuzz..

--
Please send any replies here: ccowboy%ble%boo@pacbell.com


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 01:29:55 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 01:25:50 -0800
Subject: marina funfunfun


	i have rollerbladed the berkeley marina b4, i was so glad to
	rave there.  the crowd was awesome, though i could not
	find any other sfraves geeks.  but a woman in a really cool
	suede jacket with bigbigbig fuzz around the wrists and neck
	who was dancing all over the place sort pf bump/hugged me
	and said something really up that i cannot remember...
	maybe she is on our little list.  maybe others saw me dancing
	in my kilt and favorite ravewear fuzzfez!

	the best part:  no freakin booze!  yay!  im throwing a rave
	in december and we are not going to have a bar.  thats the way
	to go, alcohol is just a bummer.

see ya on tv

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 02:24:33 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Thu, 12 Nov 92 02:19:31 PST
Subject: much fun stuff

o.k here]s something for this saturday 11/14. brian please post this
to the guide if you get the chance.

The Pirate Djs
Harry Who?
Kevvy-Kev
MC Stevie T
Liquid
The Humble Lion
and DJ Amber from La
present SOURCE.CODE
Tribal, Hip-Hop, Dancehall, Acid Jazz
Lights By Carlos
Animations by Virtual J
Dancing by Justine
Smart Bar
Dumb Bar
Completely Free
415.497.1214

it]s going to be huger, and phatter than last year]s stanford rave -
which most people remember being extremly good. we had spun last
year and pure doing the visuals. but the Pirates are the hip-hop
squad at the moment, and we]re all familiar with Harry Who?]s
excellence. please check it out. ZAP House, 710 Bowdoin, Stanford
University, reachable by campus drive east or stanford avenue.
limited parking and paranoid cops, so please park and walk. we]re
starting early around 7, so all the djs can feel happy if we get
busted early, but we plan to go on through the night.

oh - i had a {thunderbolt) as my friend]s decorator would say. it]s
time for a ravezine. i thought {Acid Tab} would be appropriate.
anyone interested in working on a monthly free rag, please respond,
or call me at 415.497.1214.

peace.
pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 05:48:26 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 05:30:25 PST
Subject: Re:  FMR party - moonlight etc.

Michele my Brother,

Thank You Michele for your wonderful post.  It seems that you found,
and put into words what a good portion of us do this for, you connected.
You were "deep in the vibe of House".  And for a moment, you could leave
all your cares and troubles behind, you could draw on the strength and
empowerment of the many ways that we are all the same as opposed to the ways we
are different.  You are also living proof that you don't NEED chemicals to
get to that place.  I hope you cherish this feeling and spread it and take it
back to Italy with you.  I myself spent a year in Ivrea, working for Uncle O
in 1981, I wonder what it is like now.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 08:30:10 1992
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 08:19:03 -0800
Subject: "Party"

  I've been hearing about a party "Party" on Friday night..but I don't
have the flyer in front of me.. Someone must have received one of these..
A friend of mine is working the door, so I figured it would be a fun
-low impact friday night..... I'll look for the flyer and post it elsewhere..
BTW, re: "Rave America" at Knott's Berry Farm. I understand it's
being put on by the "Double Hit Mickey"/Destructo people...not by
Knott's Berry Farm directly..

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 09:13:54 1992
From: camper@buphy.bu.edu (Dan English)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:07:22 -0500
Subject: ONIONZ and debo and keoki

hey all west coasters- you are in for a real treat!
i see dj keoki all over the rave guide. he's from NYC and he is superific!
his stuff is really groovy mellow ambient.

i know that ONIONZ is coming out there starting this saturday, and playing
around. ONIONZ is my god. he will be your god too. you must see onionz.

debo also will be out in SF, at least for GOS, i think on the 28th.
he is also great. i promote for him here in boston.

in review, see theses dj's.
if you see debo or onioniz, tell them camper says hi.
   -camper.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                             stay groovy.
 camper english   (wow! that drink was camperific!)      @buphy.bu.edu
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 09:24:28 1992
From: sandraf@ingres.com (Sandra Farkas)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 9:15:20 PDT
Subject: Meat Beat / Death to Dave Kendall

The ad in the Weekly (or Guardian) said MC Dave Kendall, DJ Tony Fletcher,
so maybe it won't be as bad as having to hear him spin, altho we will
have to see him on stage. Tix are $15 at the door. 

Sandra

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 09:49:16 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 07:07:38 PST
Subject: Meat Beat / Death to Dave Kendall

The ad also listed the date as the 17th, which is Tuesday.
I called the number and got no answer.  Does anyone know
the date for sure?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 10:28:16 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 10:15:17 PST
Subject: Re: "Party"

Were I Chris Beaumont, I might have said this:
> 
>   I've been hearing about a party "Party" on Friday night..but I don't
> have the flyer in front of me.. Someone must have received one of these..
> A friend of mine is working the door, so I figured it would be a fun
> -low impact friday night..... I'll look for the flyer and post it elsewhere..
> BTW, re: "Rave America" at Knott's Berry Farm. I understand it's
> being put on by the "Double Hit Mickey"/Destructo people...not by
> Knott's Berry Farm directly..
> 


Yes, the flyer has the 'Destructo' logo, but also says all the rides
will be open etc.  so Knotts B.F. must have a lot of their staff
involved as well.

-H-


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 10:48:26 1992
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:39:26 -0800
Subject: Re:  Meat Beat / Death to Dave Kendall

On 120 Minutes a couple weeks ago, a couple of the guys from Pearl Jam
were shown introducing themselves, one says, smirking, "Did you know
you can say 'penis' on television?"  Cut to Dave Kendall in the studio.
Sez he: "I'm not a penis, but I play one on television."  <thunk>

I have this on videotape.  Really.

In better news, a local video show called 'Killing Time at the Cemetery'
played a very cool clip of 'Blue Room' from The Orb.  Keep an eye out
for that one.  I somehow don't expect it to show up on the p-, er,
Dave Kendall's show.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 11:52:04 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:42:42 -0800
Subject: Re:  Meat Beat / Death to Dave Kendall

The flyer most definitely says the 19th, Thursday.  

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 12:06:55 1992
From: kris@netcom.com (Kris Skrinak)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:53:09 -0800
Subject: Strange America


   S T R A N G E   A M E R I C A    I S    H E R E !

I would like to invite everyone to my place on Saturday night
for the debut of my cable-access TV Show "Strange America".

I, more than anyone, hate to label my own work, but, the just to
give you a handle the show is kind of like a cross between 60
minutes and Monty Python.

I will be showing 4 1/2 hour episodes starting at 10 PM, the party
will go on as long as necessary. I have a 1200 watt sound system
and my friend Gal will be dj'ing.

There is a chance that we'll all leave to go somewhere else after the
TV viewing, so please come for the viewing rather than the party.

I am especially interesting in talking to anyone who's done some
video and wants to have it aired!

My address is 212 Clara, thats near 5th and Harrison. There's a 
parking lot at 5th and Harrison if you need it.

See you Saturday night!

Kris


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 12:34:16 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:15:06 -0800
Subject: Re:  "Party"


Friday, Novermer 13 - PARTY
  R.U. Sirius
  R.J. Hampton
  Robbie Hardkiss
  B.R.A.D.
  Synthesis
  T.T.I  dj Niles
  Andy from Bulletproof
  California Sunshine
  J  O  K  E
  R.B. Psibear
  Paradise Procutions
  Liquid WIndows
  XKP Collective
  Tornado

  Located @ 250C Napolean, SF
  101 to Army St.  E.
  South on Evans
  West on Napolean
  $7 Admission  (WOW, a flyer that lists the price!)
  Advance Tickets - Auricular, Lower Haight

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 12:50:40 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 09:55:00 PST
Subject: MBM/Orbital is on the 19th

I called.  The Gaurdian ad is a typo.
The show is definately on thursday.  Seeya there.

leg of eel

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 12:56:57 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:40:12 -0800
Subject: Housing Project

I checked in at Housing Project last night (every Wednesday at the End Up).
I've gone from time to time over the last year, but for some reason last
night the place was particularly buzzing with the house vibe.  One of the
staff told me it was their busiest Housing Project in memory.  There was
a distinct lack of club "attitude", and Jeno and especially Josh were hot!

Try it some Wednesday for a mid-week fix of rave energy.

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 13:51:32 1992
From: susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:39:15 -0800
Subject: On E, to Stephan & other interested parties


Forgive me if someone has already answered cause I haven't gone through
all the mail yet.  Stephan asks, what's in E and what was the reason
for it's development?

E is MDMA which stands for a big long chemical name; basically E is
a derivative of methamphetamine but does not function like amphetamines.
Because it affect animal differently, it is called an entactogen, ie,
because it generates (gen) and inner (en) touching (tact).  It was 
originally developed in early 1920's as an appetite suppressant.
It became popular for use by psychologists because it allowed 
patients to recall past painful experiences without feeling anxious.
It hit the streets in the 1970's and has increased in use since.

MDMA was declared a Schedule I drug in 1985, which means it's way illegal
to use, and difficult for researchers even to get a hold of to do
tests on.  Some testing has been done, most in rats.  Basically what
MDMA does is cause the release of the neurotransmitter serotonin (also 
called 5HT) which contributes to making one feel ecstatic.  The evidence
from rat studies indicate that in rats, in the high doses administered
(roughly equivalent to 5 doses in people) some damage to serotoneric
neurons occurs.  That is, it may cause nerve damage.

I have to go to a meeting now so I'll relate more later if anyone is
interested?

susie

susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 14:10:28 1992
From: rapotter@colby.edu (Russell A. Potter)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:07:52 -0500
Subject: *Assemblage* 1.1 (3 of 3)


* A S S E M B L A G E *   [  p a r t   3   ]
 
============================================
 
1. R E C O R D    R E V I E W S
 
============================================
 
 
AC = Andrew C Crosby <ndc@engin.umich.edu>
RP = Russell A. Potter <rapotter@colby.edu>
 
============================================
 
 
 
Title:	Berlin 1992: The Techno Sound of Berlin
Arists:	Various
Label:	Tresor/Novamute (dist. Tommy Boy)
 
When I saw this record in a store, it struck me that it was the 
first record I had seen in a long time that had the word "Berlin" 
with no "West" before it.  And, for those who have been wondering 
what's been happening musically in post-Wall, post-West Berlin, I 
can't think of ant better answer than this record.  It was, after 
all, in  West Germany in the late 60's and early 70's that the 
idea of original electronic popular music was born at the hands of 
kids like Edgar Froese, Klaus Schulze, and Roedelius, and it was 
there too that Kraftwerk first found an audience.  The DJ's on 
this compilation were probably still in diapers in 1973 when 
Schulze's _Cyborg_ redefined electronic music, but they've learned 
a lot from him, and from other German electronic musicians.  
Unlike Belgian techno, which to my ears often sounds like the 
excited noises a five-year old who had come accross a digital 
keypad by accident would make, these Berlin DJ's make 
sophisticated electronic music with a full range of beats, pulses, 
samples, and waveforms -- not to mention machines. These guys are 
playing with a full deck, and it makes a difference.
 
The cuts on this compilation are incredibly diverse; though they 
tend towards the moderate-to-trancey range of BPM's, there are 
harder and faster beats as well.  What sets many of these cuts 
aside is their dense blend of melodic accents; for instance Cosmic 
Baby's "Cosmic Cubes," which takes a fairly standard beat and 
enriches with just the right amount of Schulze-like melodic 
arpeggios and accents, often running a sleek treble over a pulsing 
bass loop.  For those who like a harder sound with phased cymbals 
a la Front 242, Vein Melter's "Hypnotized" offers that and more, 
giving a trancey feel over a relentless 138 BPM.  Along the same 
lines, Futurhythm's "Phuture 2" works similar magic over a clashy 
industrial beat reminiscent of KMFDM.  If house techno is more 
your style, Microglobe's "High On Hope" hooks you with housey 
piano and soul vocal samples, only to bust your mind open with 
incursions of high energy, culminating in a tour-de-force 
sequence of 120 BPM madness that changes its feel every thirty 
seconds or so.  The gems of this collection, though, are the two 
long trancey mixes at the end, 3 Phase's "Open Your Mind" and 
Mindgear's "Don't Panic," which together clock in at just about 
eighteen minutes. Both feature long sequences of trance beats with  
weird little loopings of samples that keep you moving _and_ keep 
you guessing (shouldn't be rare, but is).
 
All this says a lot for Tresor, which is both a club (located near 
the site of the Wall itself, in the basement of a what was (before 
the war) a department store) and a record label.  This is (so far 
as I know) one of the first Tresor/Novamute records to be 
licensed domestically via Tommy Boy, and I hope there will be many 
more; a comp such as this would be worth $20, but it's great to be 
able to pick it up for $12.99  As taylor808 said earlier on the 
ne-raves list, "it's total trancey, acid, blipcore.  I can't get 
enough of it . . . spacey, blippy perfektion." [RP]
 
 
Title: 		Swamp
Artist: 	Influid-1
Label: 		Discomania (?)
 
This track is really old, I suspect, having heard that it was on 
some MTV-Europe sampler or something. I like it though;
the a-side is a pretty cool acid stomp,  typical bubbly analogs
with a KILLER intro sound... kind of a buzz that modulates on
each beat. The first mix has the most variety; it changes style
several times during the song.
 
On the b: The track prohibition is really boring, a kind of funny
sample of some guy saying 'women having sex with animals' but
very predictable. The second mix of swamp is much more sparse
than the first, fast and furious with that droning buzz all the
way through . . . nice.  Both versions feature samples from
Flash Gordon  ("Lower them into the swamp"), but not overused, 
very subtle. Cool. [AC]
 
 
Title: 		Meltdown
Artist: 	Radition
Label: 		Radikal Records
 
This came out over the end of the summer, sort of a trancey hardcore.
Cool sounds mixed up with a fast beat; the crash mix is long and
ok, though I like the intro on the other mix better; it starts out
really slow and works into a frenzy. The other track, 'Help Me,'
is ok too, but nothing spectacular; it sounds cool when you mix it
with other stuff. [AC]
 
 
Title:		Acid Drill (remixes)
Artist: 	Edwards & Armani
Label:		Music Man (?)
 
Three mixes here, all of them pretty cool. It's hard acid stuff, 
original and nice and fast, featuring a guy yelling 'left right
left right left right left,' which sounds sorta military, but
remains feisty and hard. The sounds on this aren't your typical
analog bubble, way cool. [AC]



Artist:	Lords of Acid
Title:	I Must Increase My Bust (remixes)
Label:	Caroline
 
 
The Lords are at it again, and this maxi-single, clocking in at over 44 
bust-expanding minutes, is definitely worth it.  There is _some_ filler 
(a "Noise Mix" and "Distortion Mix" that basically sound like some other 
person playing around with LOA effects), and two nearly indistinguishable 
dub mixes ("DD Vocal Dub" and "The Lords Like 'em Large Mix").  But the 
real star of this disk is the "'Rock-n-Rave' mix", which extends the cut to 
over seven minutes of coolly acidic sounds, switching from one breakbeat 
to another and boldly going into sonic universes where the Lords had not 
gone before (this remix is credited to Mark Picchiotti and Terri 
Bristol). The LOA were always in danger of being a sort of one-noise act, 
but this cut shows what can be done with their underlying beat and a slim 
core of guitar.  The other outstanding mix is the Plus-8/Richie Hawtin 
"Detroit Hardcore Mix," which again completely revamps the sound, peeling 
back the relentless LOA fuzz and substituting an old-school, spacey 
techno sound reminiscent of early Detroit scene acts like Cybotron.
 
All in all, a pretty good disk, though some chains seem to be regarding 
this as a virtual EP and are charging as much as $9.99 for it. Let's hope 
that LOA keep experimenting in this vein, or that if they don't, that 
they'll let others keep on making remixes like these.  Maybe LOA should 
make like Psychic TV and just let rave DJ's remix everything on their 
albums (as with PTV's _Beyond Thee Infinite Beat_)...  we'll just have to 
wait and see. [RP] 

 
Title: 		World 2 World
Artist: 	Underground Resistance
Label: 		Underground Resistance
 
Wow!! The acid jazz sound from Nation 2 Nation returns; this is a way
cool ep. It opens with "Amazon, " a slightly tribalish number that has a cool
chord progression and builds with a beat that comes and goes twice.
Other tracks are "Cosmic Traveller,"  a nice housey space jam with a cool
chime sample. "Jupiter Jazz" features a funky analog bassline with little
wispy solos done with a sound I can't really describe, a high-pitched
tone that twists yer head around. The last track has a kind of acidic
feel to it, very trancey, with cool samples of a female vocal and analog
blips coming and going. The whole ep has a very organic, earthy feel to
it, samples of water and stuff I think help. Excellent. [AC]
 
 
 
Title:		Seawolf, Kamikaze, Belgian Resistance
Artist: 	World Power Alliance
Label: 		Underground Resistance
 
Basically another subproject of the UR people, these tracks were all
released as single 12"s with one song on one side, and a little manifesto
pressed into the other side, talking about techno unity and stuff like
that.
 
Seawolf: WAY AWESOME ACID BLEEPER: driving hard beat, with little
submarine-like blips fading in and out and then ambient whirrs and grinds 
forcing their way through.
 
Kamikaze: has samples from a WWII documentary -- ok, but not great.
The sound of the airplane crashdiving is cool, but the track doesn't
have enough substance or anything profoundly new.
 
Belgian Resistance: I like this, a warm bassline with a heavy beat and
feel, with little scrape/whirr sounds coming in and out, very acidic.
Pretty good overall.
 
My main complaint is that these three tracks were all released separately.
This would have made an awesome EP, but instead makes a cool single and
two merely ok singles. At $5 a pop (and a lot more for those in other 
countries), it just isn't worth it to only get one song each, in my opinion.The 
back plate pressed with the message on the vinyl is cute, but useless. I read
it once and don't care anymore; I can't play it, so what's the point? [AC]
 
 
Title:	Sysex EP
Label: 	Plus 8
 
This ep (on green vinyl) opens with "Intro,'" a long analog improv
that is pretty cool but not that listenable (or useful from a dj perspective).
World Domination is great;  it builds from intro into a throbbing hardcore
acid track, with grindy analog ringing bouncing all over the place.
"Intruder" is my favorite track, with a fast hard analog beat and a cool
melody made from a 'bomp' kind of sound, hard and cool. The b
features three more tracks: an ambient bleepy thing with no beat,
and two others that are ok.  Didn't grab me, but then i haven't listened
to it enough for them to really grow on me, as plus 8 stuff often does. 
Mind buggin 909 just seemed a little empty; anyone could program
a 909 to do this, what's the point of it?
 
Overall, if you like the really hard plus 8 stuff then this is quite a
buy; otherwise, it may be a bit too sparse and distorted. [AC]
 
 
 
Title:	Life at the Wunderbar
Artist:	C.Y.B.E.R.F.U.N.K.
Label:	Radikal Records
 
Despite their name,  C.Y.B.E.R.F.U.N.K. is not very funky.  Like many other
Belgian techno acts on Radikal, they use a lot of that "BLEEEP BLEEP" sound.
Both the beats and samples are relatively unimaginative; particularly
annoying is the relentless "police whistle" sound. "Part 2" is virtually
identical with "Part 1," except for a whispering voice that intones "no
revolution" (there's certainly nothing revolutionary in _this_ mix!). The
CD contains no other tracks or remixes, making this disk a real waste of
money no matter how you cut it.   Radikal seems to have a very good
distribution network in the U.S.; too bad they don't have much good music 
to distribute (how many times can you hear "O Fortuna" before you get 
sick of it?) [RP]
 
 
 
Title: 	Circuit Breaker EP
Label: 	Probe
 
Take a drum machine and pipe it through an array of distortion filters.
WHAMMO this is really cool. My significant other gave it a thumbs 
down at first, as she felt that it sounded like it was recorded improperly 
or something, with a fuzzy, muted feel. it may be a learned taste, so I 
can't totally recommend this to everyone -- but it sounds great to those 
who like incredibly hard stuff, and it is very new and unusual sounding.
The entire ep is made of three tracks, each made from rhythms that are 
distorted to the core. [AC]

======================================================================
 
2. R A V E   R E V I E W S
 
======================================================================
 
Halloween Review :
 
      This past Saturday, there was a wonderfully crowded MasquaRave for
Halloween at a warehouse in Greensboro, NC.  The site was within view of the
downtown scape on a misty night, and along the downtown's central road,
Market.
   We brought some jackolanterns, and left them by the side entrance as a
crowd toy.  Inside was a large well-lit foyer.  Beyond, in the gloom,
one passed the entrance to a huge dark area and proceeded up a concrete
ramp into the sparkle of an intellabeam.
   On this second level, all to the left, was a warehouse/woodpile stage for
the spinners, flanked by speaker towers, two more intellabeams, and two
smokies.  Into the space and left, were people in costume mingling about the
ramp railing, two more speaker towers, and on back to a stairwell, bathrooms,
a chill-out room, and drinks sales room.
   This early in the night the lights were held low, as people filtered onto
the central floor, lit sporadically by glowsticks, false vampire teeth, and
blinking bicycle safety lights.  As the evening progressed,  it KICKED
into high gear; at midnight the DJ simply fitted the groove and SLID !
 
   Unfortunately, there were several early technical errors.  Twice or so a
dancer bumped into just the right spot of the "stage" to skip the beats,
wrongly skip I'll say as they were fun-skipping along normally.  Then the
WORST occurred...power--sound and main lights--went down for what seemed an
eternity, but which was probably three minutes.  The crowd was more than
helpful, filling in the gap with wild hoots, patterns of whistling, some
continuing dance moves, and some house-clapping.  We all knew they were busting
their butts behind the scenes to get it going again.  The only downside was that
this pause occurred twice more in the evening.
 
   Several people were drinking or NO2ing, but most seemed to simply be
sampling, not sloshing, so the scene stuck well all throughout the
night...
 
   For the Most Incredible Surprise-Its-Cool-Afterall Award, they played a
clear stanza from an easily recognizable pop diva ( was it Samanta
Fox?--they blur).  Just enough to make you think, "rave's Over, go home NOW!"
  Then they syncopated the beat of that song with some other beats and that
was the end of your worries.  That set of beats went SO hard, SO broken, and
SO long that we knew the DJ just HAD to be dying!!  THAT was true break beat
to the max!  They should be congratulated, and they were!!
 
   An old friend of mine said that she was singing that night,
but...unbeleivable for this scene.  Well, I stood corrected when, at 3 AM,
Nichol meshed her voice with the DJ-beats, backlit by yet another
intellabeam.  This Rave was Planned And Executed!!!
 
   Even the 3AM announcement was coy : "there is a police line just up the
road, but it has nothing to do with us.  And the wonderful lot owners have
opted to allow everyone to exit out of the back of the parking lot.....or you
could just stay here and party with us somemore....heh-heh...  ;-)  "
 
   And as seven o'clock approached with the last song, the last two hundred
continued to jam and hug in the misty dawn filtered through heavy ceiling
windows.
 
            --Peace,  h.e.
 
hansel-dude (henders@eos.ncsu.edu)

[END of *ASSEMBLAGE* 1.1]

 


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 14:20:27 1992
From: rapotter@colby.edu (Russell A. Potter)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:06:03 -0500
Subject: *Assemblage* 1.1 (1 of 3)


  ________________________________________________________
 
     /\  . . . . . . . . .
    /__\ s s e m b l a g e     techno \/ music        V 1.1
   /    \S S E M B L A G E       rave /\ culture     NOV 92
 
   issue editor           russell potter rapotter@colby.edu
   ________________________________________________________
 
 _Assemblage_ is a deliberately ephemeral, occasional, mobile
 journal that will publish reviews of techno/rave music, raves,
 dances, along with articles on the social implications of this
 music (if any).  Freelance reviews, signed or unsigned, are
 welcome.
 
Editorial Staff:
 
Robert Campanell       robcamp@well.sf.ca.us (cyberpunk)
Michael Pisano         mpisano@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu(theoretical articles)
Russell Potter         rapotter@colby.edu (reviews, theory)
Bob Crispen            crispen@foxy.boeing.com (record reviews)
Frederick Wolf         Frederick.Wolf@um.cc.umich.edu (Detroit scene, reviews)
Robert Hooker          hooker@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (the theoretical side)
Arthur Chandler        arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (reviews, thought pieces)
Laura La Gassa         laura@usl.com ("The Flux Tube" (NE Rave Scene))
Andy                   ndc@engin.umich.edu (reviews, scene stuff)
Johan Dowdy            jwdowdy@colby.edu (reviews)
taylor808              TOD3253@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU (tech,cyberpunk stuff)
Joe Turner             cutter@silver.lcs.mit.edu ("Kickin' Phase" (Tech Tips))
 
 
===========================================================
I S S U E  1  C O N T E N T S
===========================================================
 
Columns [Assemblage part 1] :
 
Kickin' Phase: "Techno: The 12-Point Program" -- Errata Stigmata
 
The Flux Tube -- The East Coast Rave Scene as Seen by Laura La Gassa
 
 
Articles [Assemblage Part 2]:
 
Russell Potter, "DANCE: Music, Body, and the Reign of the Senses"
 
Robert Hooker, "Reflections on the Rave Generation"
 
Arthur Chandler, "Have We Been Here Before? -- Hippies & Ravers, 60s & 70s"


Music Reviews [Assemblage Part 3]:
 
The Techno Sound of Berlin, Swamp, Radition, Acid Drill, Lords of
Acid, Underground Resistance, World Power Alliance, Sysex, 
C.Y.B.E.R.F.U.N.K., Circuit Breaker
 
[reviewed by Andrew Crosby and Russell Potter]
 
Rave Reviews
 
Halloween Rave, Greensboro NC -- Reviewed by henders@eos.ncsu.edu

======================================================================== 
*Assemblage* 1.1. Copyright (c) 1992 by *Assemblage* for the contributors
(unless otherwise noted); this text may be freely shared among individuals,
but may not be reprinted without prior permission from the author(s).
========================================================================
 
 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K I C K I N'   P H A S E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
b y   E r r a t a   S t i g m a t a
 
 
TECHNO: The 12-POINT PROGRAM
----------------------------
 
TECHNO - the sound of ten million whining chainsaws melted into a
disco record with a bad attitude on speed.  Must be easy to make one
o' them there thangs, eh?  Hrmph!  About as easy, as they say, as root
canal -- but fun nonetheless, and you CAN do it if you want to.
 
Techno, while ultimately very diverse, is actually a very rigidly
defined style.  Your first Techno song, if you're not a latent genius,
will probably sound pretty derivative; don't fret, and don't give up
if you suddenly realise your creation uses the same changes as the
latest Twin EQ disc.  Just as a lot of rock sounds interchangeable (on
the surface) because it's just two guitars, bass, and drums, a lot of
Techno ends up sounding similar because of the ingredients needed to
make it.
 
"Writing" a Techno song doesn't follow any of the same patterns as
writing a pop song.  Techno, with very few exceptions, is based on the
jam-in-the-studio method of writing: you get in front of the drum
machine and keyboard, and you just go nuts.  Whatever works, you keep,
and then change/modify until you like it (or you hate it and throw it
away).  If you don't like something, save it anyway; having old ideas
around often lets them "compost" in your head, and they may come out
later in a different and better form.
 
The process of writing a Techno song is very linear, if you're having
a really good day and the muses are with you.  A basic drum pattern is
created, then a simple bass line is added over it, and then a main
chord or sound to fill it out gets laid over the top.  Frills can then
be added on, such as samples and effects.  The samples can come
earlier in the process, if the sample is integral to the song.
 
The kick drum is almost always the first thing to be written.  Techno
uses a beat called "four on the floor" almost exclusively.  What that
means in english is that for each measure of a song, there are four
kick-drum beats.  You know, THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP.  You can
experiment with this, and play around with syncopating it a little.
Variety is the spice of life -- but if Fred the Raver can't dance to
it, it won't do well.  Be inventive but know when to stop.  The choice
of kick drum is also important; make sure you use a sound that has a
good fast attack and isn't flabby or hollow.  Most drum sound sources,
depending on whatever you're using as a drum unit (you can use a
sampler with drum sounds loaded, or a drum machine), will have a
variety of sounds to choose from.  The Alesis SR-16, for example, has
about 25 kick drum sounds.
 
Once you have the kick pattern set, start experimenting with hi-hat
patterns and snare drum fills.  Use the snare very sparingly, if at
all.  Keep it low in the drum mix (most drum machines will let you
control the volume of each drum individually), and avoid heavy,
rock-like drum sounds (unless you are going for a particular one-time
effect).  Keep the drum line percolating but simple -- the urge to
make a very complex drum line is strong, I know, but less is truly
more.
 
If you are going for a stereotypical hardcore Techno sound, you will
probably want to put that grindy REEET-REEET sound in that everyone
and their mother uses (if you're not sure what noise I mean, and
through the printed medium I'm sure some people won't, just grab your
ancient copy of "James Brown is Dead" and fixate on the annoying buzzy
grinding sounds).  Take your sampler and the nearest heavy metal
record you can find, and sample a bit of pure guitar noise.  Just a
half-second will do, just enough to loop.  (You should read your
sampler's manual if the term "sample and loop" confuses you; basically
it means "take the sampled sound and have it play over and over and
over if you hold a key down".  The shorter the sample, the more
unearthly the loop usually is.)  Pitch-bend that sucker to hell.
 
If you're going for something a bit more housey or trancey, any good
analog or digital synth will do.  Moogs are nice; Juno 60's are
better; Jupiters are worth killing someone for.  Go nuts with
bloopy and blorpy arpeggiated sounds.  If you're lucky, your unit can
control how fast it arpeggiates by looking at how fast your sequencer
is going (by looking at MIDI information), and you'll have some snappy-
sounding acid basslines.
 
If you have listened carefully to *any* Techno, you may have noticed
that not only are chords optional, they're usually nonexistant.  This
doesn't mean you have to make something totally atonal; however, don't
concentrate on figuring out how to get from the Lydian mode in the
break back to Dorian mode in the main section.  The ravers won't care,
and so shouldn't you.  Most Techno does not vary from one or two
chords over the course of a song, so don't sweat it.
 
Vocal samples are fun, but optional.  They can either add to the
recognisability of a song ("I'm the One and Only Dominator!", "Shut
the fuck up, bitch, you can't sing!") but they can also get incredibly
annoying if used too much ("...Dominator" and various Public Enemy
samples being prime offenders in past years.  Hey, anyone remember
"this is a journey into sound..."?)  A whole book could be written
about attempting to match the rhythm of your sample with the rhythm of
your song, but in general, don't worry about speeding the sample up if
you have to, or slowing it down.  Most DJs will adjust the speed of
their turntable, anyway.
 
Your song should groove, but it should also change and build.  Don't
be afraid to put breaks in.  "Break" can either literally be a silence
of so-many beats, or it can be short for "breakdown", where you strip
the song down in an interesting way -- take the kick out, let the
piano glide byt itself for 4 bars, or whatever.  DJ's like breaks,
especially in intuitive places (try to keep things in even numbers of
bars) and when they can hear it building.  The chances that your
record will be played by itself in its entirety is pretty slim, so
make it interesting; don't just let it sit there and grind away for
four minutes.
 
Now that you understand the basics of the process, you must
meet two major requirements if you have ANY pretentions about making
Techno: nearly infinite patience, and nearly infinite money.
 
Money first.  Forget all the hype about LFO plopping a Casiotone down
on tape and having instant success with it; the equipment needed to do
all the stuff I just described ain't cheap.
 
If you plan on doing a housey-trancey song (much easier than a
hardcore samplefest), you will need:
 
        o       A sequencer ($200/$400 used/new) -OR-
        o       A home computer such as a Macintosh, IBM-PC, Amiga, or
                        Atari ST ($700/$1500 used/new) plus
                        good sequencing software ($200).
        o       A drum machine ($200/$400 used/new).
        o       A synthesiser ($300/$1500 used/new).  Most newer
                        digital synths are MIDI-fitted; some older
                        analog synths are, also.  Some VERY old synths
                        may need a MIDI "retro-fit", which can be VERY
                        expensive.
        o       A multichannel mixer ($25-$150/$50-$500 used/new).
                        Four channel at least, six channel is nice.
                        Radio Shack sells a good six-channel mixer;
                        don't beleive anyone who tells you that you
                        need twelve channels.
        o       An open-reel audio tape recorder ($500/$1000 used/new)
                        for sending your gem to the mastering plant.
        o       Buttloads of audio and MIDI cables ($50-$200).  This
                        is the hidden cost that everyone forgets
                        about.
 
If you don't want to wear headphones, and your neighbors are 80 and
deaf, you can also get:
 
        o       A PA power amp ($200-$500/$500-$1000 used/new), at
                least 100 watts a channel.
        o       Two PA speakers which you should call "cabinets" or
                else you'll look like a total neo ($200/$500 per pair
                used/new).  Make sure they have good bass, and that
                they'll match the amp you buy.
 
If you DO want a samplefest, then you can also count on buying:
 
        o       A sampler! ($400/$1000 used/new)  Make sure it has
                enough memory to choke an elephant.  Most samplers
                will have enough to sample about 15 seconds in mono.
        o       Lots of disks ($50) -OR-
        o       A hard disk drive ($200/$400 used/new) to save
                samples on.  Some home computers have "sample library"
                software and can store samples on disk, and modify
                them.
 
If you just won the lottery and have money to burn, don't forget your:
 
        o       Multitrack recorder ($250-$7,000/$500-$20,000
                used/new). Four-tracks are useful, but eight-tracks
                are better for doing some really inventive tricks.
        o       SMPTE time-code reader/writer (if you have to ask,
                you can't afford it, used OR new).  Hook this up to
                your sequencer and record many tracks of synced-up
                music.  Useful only if your synth is limited or if you
                want to do VERY layered stuff.
 
You may pick your jaw up from the floor now -- but put it back down
because even for bare-bones stuff, getting even 1000 records pressed
requires $200 for mastering and EQ, plus five cents per sleeve, plus
about $700 for the actual vinyl.
 
IT'S NOT CHEAP.  Unless you traffic in stolen goods, or unless you
have lots of generous friends with equipment to loan, you will end up
blowing close to $2000 on a basic set-up.
 
This is by no means a complete guide; rules were made to be broken and
Techno definately breaks a LOT of rules.  Read the manuals then throw
them away and play intuitively.  Listen to a lot of Techno and then
put a Patsy Cline album on before you go into the studio.  Be calm but
take risks.  Play things for your friends, and send demos to anyone
and everyone.  Go to raves and really talk to DJs about what they like
to play.  Listen carefully to your friends jizz over what they've
bought and what they like.   Remember: it will sometimes take 20 bad
songs before you write that first good one.
 
...and fer gosh sakes, keep a sense of humor about it all.  Ain't
nothing less fun than a pompous musician!
 
 
========================================================================
 
The Flux Tube
 
A Column Depicting the East Coast Rave Scene as Seen by Laura La Gassa
 
========================================================================
 
This issue's topic:  A Raver's Map of the North East
 
Raving on the East Coast often involves a lot of driving, and the core
of dedicated ravers will travel anywhere from one to eight hours for an
event.  This results in a lot of good friendly parties since a portion of
the people will have made a special effort to be there, and because the same
faces keep popping up, lending a small neighborhood feel to a large geographic
area.  Interstate 95 links the major cities on the East Coast, and as such
links the major rave centers.  Let's take a drive . . .
 
MAINE:  Way up north in Portland, K.C. and the Sunrise Gang throw raves
about every two months.  These are generally small (compared to the huge New
York and Washington raves) and breakbeat oriented.  I have never attended any
of these raves, but a reputable raver reports that the last party, CRUSADE
held on October 10, was excellent.
 
MASSACHUSSETS:  The Boston rave scene as such is pretty much non-existent.  A
large number of enthusiastic ravers live in and around Boston, but they have
been able to have very few rave parties within the metro-Boston area.  There
are decent clubs with good techno nights (Venus and Axis), but everything must
close down at 2.00 am so it's difficult to get an all-night vibe going unless
it is at a private party held in someone's apartment.  Occaisionally
after-hours parties are thrown at underground locations, but these are prone to
being busted.  I attended a good after hours party Labor Day weekend, thrown by
self-proclaimed Boston scene leader Debo and DJ'd by Debo and Long Island's
trance god Onionz, but it was closed down at 7.00 am because of noise.  The
exception to all this is a legal Fridays-only after hours club called The
Loft, which runs from midnight until about 6.00 am.  The Loft is a beautiful
space, and a welcome addition to the
now-overrun-by-overly-drinking-college-student Axis, but it lacks the
atmosphere and energy of a non-club rave.  Debo planned to throw a warehouse
rave in Boston proper, but moved the location 45 minutes west to Worcester
after someone else tried a non-rave-related party there and got busted at
2.00 am.
 
Worcester has had two other sucessful raves, both called BOLD.  I worked the
door at the second one, held October 17.  Over 160 ravers turned up from
Hartford, Providence, and Boston, as well as from the immediate area.  The
DJ list at BOLD II was spectacular if you are trance-oriented:  Dave Trance,
James Christian, and Dante.  Other DJ's spun breakbeat and acid as well.
 
RHODE ISLAND:  Providence, aside from being Rhode Island's rave capitol,
is the defacto center for the Boston rave scene.  It is supposed to be
easier legally to throw raves in Providence than in Boston, and three
seperate organizations ensure that there is at least one party in the city
every month.  Word of mouth tells me that the best raves are the QUEST raves.
I was at their first rave and thought it was wonderful.  They had an excellent
location near a 24-hour donut shop, and allowed re-entry so hungry ravers could
fuel up.  The music was a mixture of styles, from the hardcore of Adam X
and Jimmy Crash to the breakbeat of Mayhem to the trance of James Christian.
 
The ORACLE organisation held their first rave October 9.  I did not attend,
but heard that there were underage kids blatantly drinking beer outside
the front door and that the rave was busted around 3.00 am.  The organizer of
the ORACLE rave was arrested and taken away in handcuffs for selling food
without a license.  The third organisation, MICHELANGELO, has also had two
raves.  Word of mouth says that their first one was really bad, but their
second was an improvement.
 
CONNECTICUT:  I am under the impresson that Connecticut ravers travel
a lot, because I know there are lots of people in Connecticut that
rave but I never hear of any raves out there.  I could be wrong . . .
they could just be very underground.  I never claimed to be *that* well
connected with the rave scene . . . .
 
NEW YORK:  New York seems to always have to do everything the biggest and
the best on the East Coast, and raving is no exception.  It was announced
that the last Storm Rave in New York City drew over 5000 people, but one of
the promoters told me that there were only about 1670 paid admissions.  This
discrepancy seems very odd, because I was at the rave in question and it
looked to me that four to five thousand seemed like an accurate count.
Offshoots of the Storm Rave Organization frequently throw raves of their own,
so there is ALWAYS something going on in the metro-New York area.
 
Since I adore deep deep trance techno, Sattellite Production's raves are a
welcome addition to the Storm Raves.  This group is based upstate in
Poughkepsie, and have had two good parties so far:  SPUTNIK and SPUTNIK II.
At SPUTNIK there were two dance areas, one featuring mostly hardcore and
the other with trance/breakbeat/house.  SPUTNIK II featured a wide range
of DJ's, opening the night with housey happy breakbeat, moving into
hardcore, and finishing off with two of the most amazing trance sets I
have ever heard:  DJs Rob Sherwood and Onionz should be cannonized.  All
the Sattelite raves are held in roller skating / skate board parks, which
is a neat twist from spending the night in a place with no real bathrooms
(okay, so I'm a wimp).  Their next rave will be December 5th, and is called
EXPLORER I.
 
NEW JERSEY:  The New Jersey scene is incredibly underground, so underground
that members of the raving community there don't even admit they are part
of it.  I will respect them and not name names and places here until they
get things off the ground and go a bit more public.  They've had a run of
bad luck lately:  every rave they've thrown since August has gotten closed
down, and in September their sound equipment was seized.
 
PENNSYLVANIA:  Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are the rave centers. The two
main groups in Philadelphia are the Vagabonds, who host parties in various
clubs on various nights around town, and Dead by Dawn, who have held at least
two raves in the city.  Dead by Dawn's last two raves have had police
run-ins.  At the first a raver was stabbed (by someone not connected with
the rave or raving) outside the rave location, and the second (at a
different location) was closed down around 1.45 am.  They will try again.
 
I'm not too sure exactly what's going on in Pittsburgh, except that a group of
people who I know out there are throwing a nice big rave November 13th.
Pittsburgh ravers travel a lot also, frequently going down to Washington and
New York.
 
DELAWARE:  The Delaware ravers I know usually travel to Baltimore,
Philadelphia, and Washington.  If anything else is happening, I haven't
heard about it . . . yet.
 
MARYLAND:  It seems to be easier to stay open late around Baltimore, so
several clubs have late night parties with techno music.  Also, a number
of the raves advertised in DC are actually in Maryland.
 
WASHINGTON, DC:  The Catastrophic organization puts on the most and the
largest raves in Washington.  They get amazing lighting effects, including
argon lasers, and draw all the top DJs.  I've never raved down in Washington
either, but I heard that the last two Catastrophic raves were excellent as
far as huge raves go.  In warmer weather a number of smaller, simpler,
outdoor raves happen under bridges and in parking garages.
 
[END *ASSEMBLAGE* PART 1]
   ________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 15:37:27 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:31:34 MST
Subject: Meat Beat Manifesto

> The flyer most definitely says the 19th, Thursday.  

Yes, I can verify this.  They're here the 18th. :-) :-)

Meat Beat Manifesto got their visas today.

Should I strangle Dave Kendall so you SF people don't have to put up with him?

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 16:27:48 1992
From: steve@mtxinu.com (spiral freshness)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:20:53 -0800
Subject: Raves in Tennessee?

	 This may sound ridiculous but, Has anyone heard any evidence of a
	 rave scene in Tennessee?  I have a friend who lives in Knoxville and
	 I keep telling her she has got to find one.  Any suggestions or clues?
	 Any DJ's down there she could contact?
-steve aka spiral freshness... Adios

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 17:08:20 1992
From: susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:01:39 -0800
Subject: On E


It's interesting what leigh said about friends who've been taking X
for a while avoid it now because it's unpleasant for them.  In the 
book I'm reading on the pharmacology of X it says that many long-time
users of the drug report increasing negative effects.  This seems
to indicate that X affects people differently when their bodies have
been "conditioned" by it over time.  Interesting....
The book did not really elaborate on what these negative effects
actually included, though.
Also, X seems to suppress some peoples' immune systems, causing them
to get more sore throats, colds, flu's, herpes outbreaks, and bladder
infections.
Oh, I remember now that it said people who had taken it alot reported
having longer "burn out" periods after the Xperience; that is, it took
them longer to get over the tired feeling.

I have a friend who has been taking X for about 6 years regularly 
who suffers no negative effects other than feeling tired and draggy
for a few days afterwards...

But on the other hand, I have been getting sick a lot lately...

So whatever.  It works in mysterious ways.

susie

susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 19:39:04 1992
From: Andrew C Crosby <ndc@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 22:33:14 +0000
Subject: MBM / visas and all that


mr ashdown just said that meat beat got their visas, but their
show in detroit tomorrow has been cancelled..
so i wouldn't be too sure about that stuff

hmm

andy

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 21:09:08 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 10:53:13 PST
Subject: ???

>Speaking of Vicks, how come I haven't seen
>anyone on this coast E-vapor-8-ing?  I hear it's big
>time in Europe and New York.  Not that I don't think
>it's kinda silly.  Just wondering.

>Jim  :)

Please, inform me (us).  I can imagine -  but I'm not sure what this is.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 21:09:18 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 10:50:42 PST
Subject: ???

>From uunet!msgate.corp.apple.com!stewart#m#_scott* Wed Nov 11 20:49:34 1992
Return-Path: <uunet!msgate.corp.apple.com!stewart#m#_scott*>
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Message-Id: <9211120341.AA14339@jumbo.apple.com>
Date: 11 Nov 1992 19:34:06 -0700
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <uunet!msgate.corp.apple.com!stewart#m#_scott*>
Subject: RE: COOL COPS
To: "Mark" <winston@lurnix.COM>
Status: RO

>"Ya, are you guys (police) here because of the rave?"  "Ya, but were just
>maintaining a presence.  Ravers are real cool.  No trouble at all, they just
>like to dance all night.  Verry peaceful."  Yes!  I was psyched when Don told
>me this and I thought you'd all like to hear about it.


IT is so great to hear stories like this.  Some people think that all cops are
dicks, I tend to disagree I have been in many a situation where the cops have
been understanding and very cool( E.G. a few months back I was pulled over for
speeding on my motorcycle, since I was coming from a bar the cop pulled me over
and checked me for DUI, I was not drunk so he let me go without a citation.)  I
thought this was cool, Driving under the influence is terrible, it is good to
see that he had his priorities straight.

On the other hand I have had several bad incedents with cops being totally
uncool, like at other Raves, but I tend to think that when they bust or are
looking to bust raves there is someone putting the pressure on them, other than
the cop as an individual.

I believe there are alot (majority?) of cops out there that are Racist, youth
hating pigs, Which we have seen in the Rodney King, Santa Cruz and other
incedents But I would also like to think that there are alot of good cops out
there.


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           X         X
            X       X
             XXXXXXX

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 21:09:25 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 10:50:07 PST
Subject: ???

>If they think ravers are so cool, why were they keeping people from
>entering the Marina?

Don says the cop mentioned controlling traffic AND I tend to think this was a cool 
individual cop, of which I'm sure there are many, but it doesn't mean that they're
acting like that as a policy or anything.  Although, they could have been.  They
didn't hassle anyone.

-Mark


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 22:35:18 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 22:29:50 PST
Subject: e-vapor-8-ing


	Uh, sorry for being obscure...I'll explain
"E-vapor-8-ing".  Evidently, people in England, and
now in New York to a limited degree, have taken to 
spreading Vick's Vapo-Rub all over themselves at raves.
I guess this enhances ecstasy, which only makes sense
considering how tingly it is, but even people who
aren't xing do it.  Altern8 had a song which was a
tribute to the trend, calle "Evapor8"--a song title,
which, as Simon Reynolds pointed out, refers to not
one but two drugs.
	I haven't tried this myself or seen anyone do 
it at a club; thus my query.  To me, it seems like it'd
be too sticky or uncomfortable to dance in, and I don't
think I'd want to shake someone else's hand or put a
sticker on them if they were covered with grease.  But,
like I said, I haven't tried it.
	Although I don't think I'd do it myself, it seems
cool to me somehow just because it's so freaked out--it
kind of goes along with the weird, hardcore side of the
rave culture; stuff like Tresor and the Aphex Twin
and speaker hounds and people who spend half the day
talking on rave mailing lists.  :)  Stuff that would
alienate people who like the Movement.
 	(No offense, the Movement's on my DIE list today; I just
saw the cover of their CD in the store with all the wacked-out
symbols on it. Also, they have a song called "Don't OD on XTC".
Somehow this makes me really mad even though one of my
favorite songs is "Do You Really Need Ecstasy?".  There's a
difference, I think.)

	Jim  :)





















From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 23:18:31 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:49:27 PST
Subject: Scruz Preparty for Lighthouse 2.5

Hi folx-

Youall are welcome to a preparty Saturadayday in Sanity
Cruise: e B4 Lighthouse 2.5: e-mail me or phone me @
408. 423 8907 for sfravers & their guests.  I'm 
just off Ocean Street near the county building and
ready to return the favor for sdo many of youall who
have been so raving good!  Hope to hear from you and
see you Saturday nite!
Peace ravefully & vice versa of course,
BYOV (Bring Your Own Vinyl)
 Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 12 23:41:28 1992
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.uu.net (P. Couch)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:07:44 PST
Subject: Fun in NY


I will be in NY, week after thanksgiving, for the
purpose of fun & adventure (Nocturnal mostly).
I'd appreciate any info on good clubs/parties/natural wonders/etc
that I should check out??? I will staying in Manhatten with
friends,15 mins walk from East Village.

P.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 01:03:45 1992
From: bprofane@netcom.com (Gert Niewahr)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 00:49:47 -0800
Subject: Re:  On E, to Stephan & other interested parties

Argh.  The totally uninformed messages about MDMA I figured most people
wouldn't take seriously, but this one has enough detailed
information in it that somone might take it as gospel.  It is *not*.
It has just enough correct information in it so as to be really
dangerous.

Folks, the only correct, current, and thorough information that has
passed through this mail stream was the MDMA FAQ from alt.drugs
that Brian or somebody reposted a while ago.  If you are using MDMA
or contemplating it, you should have saved that and read it
carefully--and then gone out and read the books and articles it
references.  You should *ignore* everything else that purports to
be authortative on the subject, although you should read the
personal experiences and opinions since you can learn a lot from
others' trips.

Mixing up unsupported speculation with the details of
neurotransmitter agonists is worse than useless.  The most
dangerous side effect of MDMA is dehydration and tachycardic
syndrome (your heart beating too fast).  This is the common
overdose effect of any CNS stimulant, and far more immediately and
acutely dangerous than neurotransmitter munging.  I would say more
except that I would feel obliged to be thorough and I'd just
reiterate the FAQ.  

Vaporub, immune suppression...my homesick ass!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 01:30:35 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 01:20:57 -0800
Subject: Re:  On E, to Stephan & other interested parties

It's actually my opinion that the FAQ could use some organization and 
updating.... I'd work on it but that would be my nth major project as
n approaches infinity... :)

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 04:07:15 1992
From: nineball@mica.berkeley.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 04:00:16 PST
Subject: Vapo-rub: a personal account

bprofane@netcom.com (Gert Niewahr) rants, rather harshly:
> Vaporub, immune suppression...my homesick ass!

I, for one, have no interest in vaporubbing Gert's ass, but
nonetheless have this to offer on the subject.

My favorite rave partners in the world, Chris and Angie from Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, introduced me to Evapor8ing by sneaking up on me and
smearing a handful of the goop from my chin to my nose.  To reassure me
they insisted it was one of the constants of the scene in Canada,
(evidently derived from the scene in England) where almost every
hardcore has a bottle to show.  Not only the tubs of rub mind you,
but an old style Vick's Inhaler as well.  (Note "old style"; it can
be used "as often as needed"...the new formulation has stronger ingredients
with dosage limits.)  The rub is used from just under the nose for
the timid to an immersion for many brave ravers to be found at almost
any rave; the inhaler to be snorted whenever the mood strikes, both
usually while on X.

wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe) writes:
> I guess this enhances ecstasy, which only makes sense
> considering how tingly it is....
Perhaps a better wording would be "enhances the ecstasy experience"
(as a sensual, tactile drug).  The menthols stimulate the sense of
touch with intense tingling, cold/hot sensation, increased surface blood
supply, and a sinus- and mind-opening "rush". Not too greasy - it
seems to be formulated to disappear.    If you enjoy the inhaler,
it becomes a small, _personal_ trip toy.  For any student of sensory
overload, it's really recommended at least for a try, especially at
an extremely hot small indoor warehouse rave (Wicked?).

Have fun.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 04:51:50 1992
From: Derek Yu <derek@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 03:30:15 -0800
Subject: Re:  Fun in NY


i am going back to NY for Christmas break too...
how can i get in touch with the Rave Scene there>>>

i have 3-4 weeks of prime Rave time there...


PRIMETIME................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 06:41:57 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:11:48 -0800
Subject: Fukl Moon Reflections

This was my 6th FMR in a row, I guess I'm on a roll.  I had told myself
that if it was going to be in Santa Cruz again, I wasn't going to go,
(luckily for me it wasn't :) The site that Brian discovered was brilliant,
It was very beautiful with a fantastic view of the Bay bridge, SF glittering
in the distance, the Golden Gate , Tiburon and Mt. Tam.  I suppose you could 
also see Alcatraz if you knew where to look.  

I arrived at about 12:30, a little late, 880 had a detour in effect near
San Lorenzo and I had to drive  5 miles inland and 5 miles back.  When
I got there I ran into Brian.  Very few ravers had arrived.  We proceded to 
park cars and give out the flyers that Brian had crafted.

Arround 1:30 the sound truck arrived and some folks got it unloaded and set up.
The music started around 2 which is when the first crusier turn the corner.
We retired to the park avoiding engagement with the Police untill the rave
had reached critical mass.  Which leads me to offerr the following advice.

	1. Always have people assisting in parking people at an underground
rave, it's not hard, you can fit more cars in that way, and it shows the
authorities that your not a "dumb fuck".  Cops will be less pissed if they see
400 cars parked legally, then 400 cars parked in a stupid manner. This also
lessens the likelyhood that someoone will get towed.  DON'T LEAVE IT UP TO 
THE PARTY GOES TO PARK THEMSELVES!  You won't beleive how stupid some folks
will park, if you don't give them some guidelines,  I don't want
to hear any remarks about natural selection cuz' these people ruin it for
everybody, including themselves.

	2.  If the rave hasn't reached "Critical Mass" (this is sorta
hard to discribe, basicaly the music is in full swing, you have > 200
people dancing but formost the Vibe has been established and is strong)
AVOID TALKING DIRECTLY TO THE AUTHORITIES.  Let them think that there is no
control for a while, they`ll asses the situation and you can watch them and 
judge how uptight they are, try to identify officers that seem to be calm
and intelligent and when Critical Mass has been achieved, approach them,
be cheerful and polite, call them officer don't be paranoid, act like you
do this every weekend like some folks play softball.  Act like there is no
difference between what is going on and a bunch of people enjoying chmaber
music or singing christmas carols.  Volunteer plenty of useless information,
don't identify ANYONE else other than yourself by name.
THIS IS YOUR BIGGEST ALLY WHEN DEALING WITH THE AUTHORITIES.  First, you can
draw on this good energy as you approach and talk to them.  They will relax
if you are relaxed.  Second, it is more work for them to stop it now then 
to let it continue, police are like everyone else, they don't want hassles.
Tell them this is a peacefull event, we just want to dance all night, 
there will be no alcohol, and invite them to stay, say we have nothing to hide.
Try to tell the truth as much as possible but DON"T VOLUNTEER INCRIMINATING
INFORMATION.  The cop will probibly ask you for your name, don`t talk to them
unless you are willing to give them your name,  it makes them feel like you
are being straight with them and It might turn up in a report.  I've never
been asked for an ID so maybe a fake name that you have crafted for such
occasions is appropriate, don't make it too wild though (like using Eboneza
Goode).  I think it also helps to have a couple of people talk to them, if 
the people are of various demographic make-ups (age,race,sex) it seems to
add legitamacy to what you are doing although this will probibly infuriate
a racist cop if you run into one.

3. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS clean up the site after the rave.  Try to leave it 
cleaner than before the rave happened,  This will keep you friendly with 
the custodians and generally everyone will be impressed, it shows some
awareness and consciousness, drunks will never do this.  We want to show people
that this "substance taking" crowd is not careless or irresponsible.
I think this is one of the main things that killed the outdoor movement in
England,  it seems that alot of the British ravers could use a class in
Ecology 101 judging from the way the l;and looked after some of their festivals.
I have the same problem with some of the Brit crowd here, who look at me
weird when I offer them a trash can liner.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 07:44:36 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 8:36:34 MST
Subject: MBM / visas and all that

> mr ashdown just said that meat beat got their visas, but their
> show in detroit tomorrow has been cancelled..
> so i wouldn't be too sure about that stuff

As of last night (the 12th), the managers were still calling me to confirm
their performance here.  I have seen no other indicators that this tour has
been cancelled, so possibly the cancellation in Detroit was premature.

I might as well get this over with:

				TASTE PRESENTS
				       
		      The Underground Event of The Year
				       
			     Meat Beat Manifesto
				   Orbital
				 Ultramarine
				       
			November 18th, Salt Lake City
				  8014613375
				       
			       $15   No Alcohol

From geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org Fri Nov 13 09:42:57 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 09:17:31 PST
Subject: Re:  Berkeley cops

	>If they think ravers are so cool, why were they keeping people
	>from entering the Marina?

	I think because they feared it getting larger, or the Oaktown homies finding out
	about it, etc....

		Brian

Personally, I don't have any problem with Oaktown homies or Walnut Creek
Rednecks comming to the FMR as long as they don't "get ill".  If they want
to come and get in touch with the fantastic energies that abound during
the FMR the more power to them.  Maaybe they will bring the message back
to their respective communities.  I realize this is a very idealistic
point of view  but when I think of it, If anybody could benefit from the
"House Vibe" it's the non-ravers.  
I've been to raves where some "Homeboys" came, they were shocked at first
and a little taken aback, then they spent the next 1/2 hour against the wall making fun of people, by the end of the night they were totally into the
groove, busting some dynamite moves on the dance floor and generally
contributing to the good vibration, (I think this was a WICKED)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 10:50:41 1992
From: Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 10:41:18 PST
Subject:  On E, to Stephan & other interested parties

gert niewahr sez:

>Folks, the only correct, current, and thorough information that has
>passed through this mail stream was the MDMA FAQ from alt.drugs that
>Brian or somebody reposted a while ago.  If you are using MDMA or
>contemplating it, you should have saved that and read it
>carefully--and then gone out and read the books and articles it
>references.  You should *ignore* everything else that purports to be
>authortative on the subject, although you should read the personal
>experiences and opinions since you can learn a lot from others'
>trips.

i dunno.  i've got a stack of literature about two inches high that
the people who put out the INFO E flyer were using as research
material and all i've been able to determine is that of the few
studies out there, they all have contradictory results.  i wouldn't
say ecstasy is harmless, but i wouldn't say it is particularly
dangerous either (although it can be if used stupidly).  multiple
studies on neurotransmitter depletion have been done and they have
different findings.  until more research is done, i wouldn't like to
take a definite stance on ecstasy at all.  my only advice is: be
careful, use good judgment, and DRINK LOTS OF WATER!

>Vaporub, immune suppression...my homesick ass!

vaporub is FUN, that's all.  try some next time you're on E.

Jon Drukman (God's personal DJ)                 uunet!sco!jondr   jondr@sco.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live faust, die jung, leave it to Beaver.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 11:39:52 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:32:14 PST
Subject: FDA gives approval to testing of Ecstasy


from yesterday's SF Examiner [I guess they think
somebody in the community is interested in this :) ]


FDA gives approval to testing of Ecstasy

By Sarah Pekkanen
States News Service

(reprinted without permission)

WASHINGTON - In an unprecedented decision,
the Food and Drug Administration has 
cleared the way for a UC-Irvine researcher
to study the effects of a hallucinogenic 
drug known as MDMA, or Ecstasy, on human
subjects.

Dr. Charles Grob last week won FDA approval
for his study, expected to take place at the 
campus in two months.

During Grob's study, six health professionals,
who have not yet been selected, will take two
low-level doses of the drug and a placebo
during three separate sessions to determine
the effect of the drug.

The FDA approval is a major breakthrough for
researchers who have, with few exceptions,
been denied permission to administer hal-
lucinogens, including LSD, to human subjects
since officials moved to outlaw the drugs in
the late 1960s.

Rick Doblin, president of a non-profit
organization called the Multidiscipliary
Association for Psychedelic Studies, said
the subjects will be volunteers who all took
Ecstasy before it was outlawed by the FDA
in 1985.

The subjects have already assumed any risks
associated with the drug, which may also have
contributed to the FDA approval, Doblin said.

The six volunteers participating in the drug
study will be subject to a battery of non-
invasive tests, including mood status, analysis
of pain reduction and cognitive tests, said
Grob.

Grob still has two more hurdles to clear
before his study can take place:  He must win
approval from the Drug Enforcement Administration
and the California Research Advisory Panel.
Doblin said he did not expect either agency
to oppose the study.

The drug Ecstasy has been reported to increase
self-confidence and self-acceptance and induce
feelings of empathy and love, which could make
it a useful tool for psychotherapists, some
researchers say.

Although negative side effects of the drug include
decreased appetite and decreased desire to 
perform mental or physical tasks, the drug may
also help alleviate pain, which could benefit
certain terminally ill patients, Doblin said.

Grob said he hopes to eventually win FDA approval
for a study that would involve administering the
drug to end-stage cancer patients.


________________________________________________
 Derek Chung			Oracle Graphics	
 dhchung@oracle.com 		  (415)506-6195

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 12:18:20 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:44:31 PST
Subject: Re: FDA gives approval to testing of Ecstasy

Were I Derek Chung, I might have said this:
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON - In an unprecedented decision,
> the Food and Drug Administration has 
> cleared the way for a UC-Irvine researcher
> to study the effects of a hallucinogenic 
> drug known as MDMA, or Ecstasy, on human
> subjects.

Where does one sign up to be a subject? :O

> 
> Dr. Charles Grob last week won FDA approval
> for his study, expected to take place at the 
> campus in two months.

Interesting...Interesting...

> 
> During Grob's study, six health professionals,
> who have not yet been selected, will take two
> low-level doses of the drug and a placebo
> during three separate sessions to determine
> the effect of the drug.

Lucky fuckers.  I wonder what they consider a low-level dose?

> Rick Doblin, president of a non-profit
> organization called the Multidiscipliary
> Association for Psychedelic Studies, 

This guy sounds like my kind of scientist.
Maybe they could use an extra chemist...
something tells me the'll have no shortage of applicants though. :)

> 
> The subjects have already assumed any risks
> associated with the drug, which may also have
> contributed to the FDA approval, Doblin said.
> 
> The six volunteers participating in the drug
> study will be subject to a battery of non-
> invasive tests, including mood status, analysis
> of pain reduction and cognitive tests, said
> Grob.

What about the touchy-feelie index? :)
Someone should send these guys some trip toys.

> 
> Grob still has two more hurdles to clear
> before his study can take place:  He must win
> approval from the Drug Enforcement Administration
> and the California Research Advisory Panel.
> Doblin said he did not expect either agency
> to oppose the study.
> 
> The drug Ecstasy has been reported to increase
> self-confidence and self-acceptance and induce
> feelings of empathy and love, which could make
> it a useful tool for psychotherapists, some
> researchers say.
> 
> Although negative side effects of the drug include
> decreased appetite and decreased desire to 
> perform mental or physical tasks, the drug may
> also help alleviate pain, which could benefit
> certain terminally ill patients, Doblin said.
> 
> Grob said he hopes to eventually win FDA approval
> for a study that would involve administering the
> drug to end-stage cancer patients.
> 

Since the drug has been around since 1904 or so, it's about time.
I wonder if Merck's patent is still good...


-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 12:19:18 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:10:19 PST
Subject: going back east?


Gee, it seems like everyone's going back east for the holidays and wants
to know where to go raving.

Try sending mail to laura@usl.com.  She has an east coast rave calendar, 
similar to Brian's calendar of sf rave events.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 12:57:33 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 13 Nov 1992 12:34:21 -0700
Subject: Howd-EEE

Greetings SFRAVERS:

My name is Nut, and I am fairly new to the Network but a hardcore Raver.  I am
very interested in meeting and making new Raver Friends, especially in the Mid
Peninsula and South Bay area.  I really enjoy meeting and getting to know them
when they are not high.  I find it interesting to see what kind of person they
are sober.  

I am the kind of person that if you meet me at a Rave or at work you would
think I was X-ing, even thoguh I am stone cold sober.  Actually I like to
consider myself a very fun, social, friendly, creative and opened minded guy
all the time.

Like I said it is really great to meet people that are just as nice when they
are sober as when they are high. I have met so many people Real People who are
just a Caring and Nice Sober as High.  Unfortunately I have also met alot of
people who were very nice, but when they were sober were very pretentious.  To
me the latter type of people no matter how much E they take or Raves they go to
are not True Ravers or even real people.

Is anybody out there going to the Stanford Rave, Saturday 11/14, I am because
it is Free and Local.  I am going to have a little house party before hand
starting around 5:00 where I live in Menlo Park.  If anybody is interested in
the Rave or just meeting some new friends, mail me or give me a call for
directions.

NUT
stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com

(415)323-2620  (home number)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 15:02:04 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 13:04:57 PST
Subject: Re:  Howd-EEE

scott, i'm back at work.  can you meet with brian and me tomorrow to
check out the san jose location, and maybe your house if you still 
want to do that?

-mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 15:28:24 1992
From: susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 13:57:11 -0800
Subject: On E, book title


The book the info was from is:  "Ecstasy: the clinical, pharmacological, 
and neurotoxicological effects of the drug MDMA," edited by Stephen
J. Peroutka.  Published 1990.
 
If anyone wants to read this for themselves, I checked it out from
a library at UCB.

susie

susie@garnet.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 15:38:01 1992
From: susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 13:50:38 -0800
Subject: On E


Ok, everybody.  Someone got upset and thinks you should ignore the info
I posted about E.  I was relating information in a published book
written by a scientist who has himself done research on MDMA.  He has
also surveyed users of X and asked them what their bodies had experienced.
It is valid and interesting to relate such information, and if a
significant number of people have, for example, noticed a correlation
between taking X and getting colds and flus and the like, it does
suggest that X suppresses the immune system.  I related this information
because I found it to be a comfort to know that I was not alone in
noticing this correlation, and I suspect that others may feel the same
way.
None of what I related was "unsupported speculation;" and anyone
who read what I related is free to believe it or not.  I don't know
may educated people these days who take everything they read as
gospel.
So, the info I related was from a published source, I didn't make it up,
relax.  I'll give you the name of the book in a later post.

susie

susie@garnet.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 15:55:55 1992
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (riboflavin flavored)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 16:44:51 MST
Subject: Re: e-vapor-8-ing

William J. Poe
|
|
|	Uh, sorry for being obscure...I'll explain
|"E-vapor-8-ing".  Evidently, people in England, and
|now in New York to a limited degree, have taken to 
|spreading Vick's Vapo-Rub all over themselves at raves.

Well, it goes beyond New York (Ive done it) and most people don't
spread it all over themselves.  I've only put it under my tongue or
in my mouth, and I've only seen people put it on the more sensitive
areas like fingers and even nipples.    no joke, but don't ask me why.
But I've never seen people douse themselves in the junk.

|I guess this enhances ecstasy, which only makes sense
|considering how tingly it is, but even people who
|aren't xing do it.  Altern8 had a song which was a
|tribute to the trend, calle "Evapor8"--a song title,
|which, as Simon Reynolds pointed out, refers to not
|one but two drugs.

The sensation (w/ X) reminded me a lot of a combination between
hitting your funny bone really hard and that moment right before you
fade out when you have laughing gas.

|	I haven't tried this myself or seen anyone do 
|it at a club; thus my query.  To me, it seems like it'd
|be too sticky or uncomfortable to dance in, and I don't
|think I'd want to shake someone else's hand or put a
|sticker on them if they were covered with grease.  But,
|like I said, I haven't tried it.

IMHO there's better things to do while dosed then "enhance" it like
this.  at times I got a little scared that the sensation was getting
almost unbearable, and uncomfortable.  

|	Although I don't think I'd do it myself, it seems
|cool to me somehow just because it's so freaked out--it
|kind of goes along with the weird, hardcore side of the
|rave culture; stuff like Tresor and the Aphex Twin
|and speaker hounds and people who spend half the day
|talking on rave mailing lists.  :)  Stuff that would
|alienate people who like the Movement.
| 	(No offense, the Movement's on my DIE list today; I just
|saw the cover of their CD in the store with all the wacked-out
|symbols on it. Also, they have a song called "Don't OD on XTC".
|Somehow this makes me really mad even though one of my
|favorite songs is "Do You Really Need Ecstasy?".  There's a
|difference, I think.)

Big difference between a preachy statement like the former and a
semi-intelligent self-inspecting statement like the latter.

IMHO, there's nothing wrong with X as long as you use an amount that's
right for you and doesn't affect friends/family, and as long as you
don't use it to escape.

Personally, I've found AET which is somewhat similar, but doesn't have
the same "potency" is normal X.  I read about it in this magazine and
to my surprise my friends not only knew about it but had some.  AET is
supposedly an ani-depressant and at the dosage I took I saw minor
hallucinations (like pictures on ceiling but still seeing the ceiling,
etc.) and it doesn't leave you out of reality like LSD or sometimes X.
I need to read up a lot more on the drug, but from what I understand,
even though it was taken off the market in the 60's or 70's it is
still legally sold for research purposes because it has some valid
uses.  Because it's less well-known, less potent, and less illegal
than X it makes a nice rave drug.

(Again, excuse my ignorance on the matter, I've only known about it
for a week, but I'm pretty sure my generalizations are true).

|	Jim  :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 17:18:53 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 16:52:39 PST
Subject: The Energizr

brian didn't know about this one, but a girl here at apple is throwing a
party that missed the list.

        

 		Groovin' Out
                Productions

                  presents
                    100%
                pure pleasure
                    with
       robbie hardkiss  harry who?  rick preston
            buck  dj dmc  tigger  noah


live performances and special guests
  goodies and garb galore  -- ***unique and unused location***

CALL FOR MORE INFO :  408.450.8624         415.512.5738



check it out.

-mark.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 17:19:33 1992
From: ids-kd@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 17:05:52 -0800
Subject: e-vapor8

One thing that hasn't been mentioned....
Vaporub feels great, especially when you inhale it (try it at a steam-bath type
rave, where you can't breath), smear it under your nose, etc.  If you put
it on your temples it tingles.  Definately a good trip toy....
BUT
It makes you break out, so don't smear it all over your face if you don't want
to look like a pizza for the rest of the week.
ALSO
I have a question--anyone know the side-effects from taking Cross-tops (aka.
Mini thins, ephedrin, etc)???  I know that if you take it while your on E, it
makes it last longer, but what chemical effects does it have on your brain?
I'd like to know more info.....

I'm trying to take the month off (aside from sunday parks)--two weeks in and
I'm fiending for the scene--damn, this is worse than trying to quit smoking!

ANYWAY
Have fun in all endeavors this weekend.
Keep up the energy and the love--
		janella

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 17:50:09 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 13 Nov 1992 17:32:10 -0700
Subject: RAVERS Annonymous (RA)

janella writes

>I'm trying to take the month off (aside from sunday parks)--two weeks in and
>I'm fiending for the scene--damn, this is worse than trying to quit smoking!

No kidding, I have been trying to quit for just a month for months now and it
is so addicting (the scene not the drug).  Because I am such a social person
and my work requires so much of my time during the week, it is hard not to go
out to raves on the weekend. I find if I have any type of work to do over the
weekend, I can forget about getting it done if I go Raving, even sober.

I have never smoked so I can sympathise with those that try to quit.

Pretty soon they are going to have Ravers Annoynmous, which is not necessarily
the same as AA.


             XXXXXXX
            X       X
           X         X 
          X    NUT    X
           X         X
            X       X
             XXXXXXX

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 19:36:33 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 18:37:09 PST
Subject: Lighthouse 2.5 Cancelled!

Sorry Folx-

Paul Thomas just phoned me and said thet Lighthouse
2.5 has been cancelled due to problems with filing
permits with the city. You're still welcome to mu
Sanity Cruise Preparty and then on to (promoter)
Craig Larsen's Birthday Party here and thence we
can all go to Groove Kitchen, which conveniently
starts at 2 a.m., if I recall properly!
Aaarghhh! I have all the party stuff--virtual munchies
Sanity Cruise style, a mechanical singing Cardinal
(SCHS is thwe home of the Cardinals!) that I was 
gonna wear to the rave, etc., etc., new rave
discs up the gazonga....) Blaaaht!
408.423 8907
Roving raver
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 19:50:12 1992
From: Cynthia L. Haynes <cynthia@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 19:42:58 -0800
Subject: anyone gonna be@warfield 11.14 ?

* From howard@netcom.com Fri Nov 13 11:50:55 1992
* Subject: Re: FDA gives approval to testing of Ecstasy
* To: dhchung@us.oracle.com (Derek Chung)
* Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:44:31 PST
* Cc: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu, cynthia@soda.berkeley.edu

> evidently from something derek posted, I just got cc'ed in,
  thanks howard, I'm pretty interested, hell maybe I should
  just re-subscribe 

I'm also being pretty liberal with attribution
sorry, don't have much time

> WASHINGTON - In an unprecedented decision,
> the Food and Drug Administration has 
> cleared the way for a UC-Irvine researcher
> to study the effects of a hallucinogenic 
> drug known as MDMA, or Ecstasy, on human
> subjects.

* Where does one sign up to be a subject? :O

just say no << I'm serious, there's too much
unknown, at least re its effects over time
I'm speaking to frequent repeated usage to
which persons I know closely have been exposed

and there're other options that'd've been around longer

it's not a good thing

notice they didn't ask me to be a subject
they should've I'd've said "no thank you"
I value my optimism too much

> During Grob's study, six health professionals,
> who have not yet been selected, will take two
> low-level doses of the drug and a placebo
> during three separate sessions to determine
> the effect of the drug.

* Lucky fuckers.  I wonder what they consider a low-level dose?

nope not if it's a lot I bet they'll be real sorry
I hope they've got contracts out the ass protecting
them from bad fucking effects on their psyche

hey, and I'm in a good mood at the moment

> The subjects have already assumed any risks
> associated with the drug, which may also have
> contributed to the FDA approval, Doblin said.

big big mistake in the arena of drug testing

> The six volunteers participating in the drug
> study will be subject to a battery of non-
> invasive tests, including mood status, analysis
> of pain reduction and cognitive tests, said
> Grob.

* What about the touchy-feelie index? :)
* Someone should send these guys some trip toys.

I agree, it's supposed to be really fun for a while

> The drug Ecstasy has been reported to increase
> self-confidence and self-acceptance and induce
> feelings of empathy and love, which could make
> it a useful tool for psychotherapists, some
> researchers say.

from my friends' experiences, very true till you've
taken it routinely, I've watched the psychological
evolution of a few druggie friends and it gets you
after you've done it enough

did I mention yet this subject interests me

> Although negative side effects of the drug include
> decreased appetite and decreased desire to 
> perform mental or physical tasks, the drug may
> also help alleviate pain, which could benefit
> certain terminally ill patients, Doblin said.

absolutely untrue
friend of mine had an enormous work task to accomplish
had procrastincated to the point where his job was jeopardized

took one hit did half the work in half a day
took another finished the project
flat.  a month long project in a day.
and his boss was extremely happy.

he said it made him focused to the point where if
anyone got in his way he smiled politely and got
them the fuck out of his way in the most efficient
manner possible so feed it to monkeys a whole lot 
and maybe they'll solve the natural language processing
problem et cet and pls no flames from save-the-whalers
I have no opinions on that issue
 
> Grob said he hopes to eventually win FDA approval
> for a study that would involve administering the
> drug to end-stage cancer patients.
 
sounds like a good use for it, actually

		        Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................

yeah me too wonder if I can get it out

I'd say give it to sarcastic assholes a little bit
maybe it'll straighten them out
give it to people in counseling
give it to people on death row
give it to people knocking on heaven's door

but do NOT give it to anyone routinely
and don't ask me to quantify that cuz it's not possible

--cynthia@soda
  leigh@briet.berkeley.edu
  harriet@twitch.stanford.edu




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 21:49:46 1992
From: trocha@netcom.com (Dan Trocha)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 21:38:33 -0800
Subject: Groove Kitchen

We just called 650 Howard, Groove Kitchen is Sat. night/Sunday morning
at 2:00AM, on Nov. 15.  %)

=Dan
----

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 23:28:13 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 23:03:01 PST
Subject: Re:  The Energizr


> brian didn't know about this one, but a girl here at apple is throwing a
> party that missed the list.
> 
>  		Groovin' Out
>                 Productions
> 
>                   presents
>                     100%
>                 pure pleasure
>                     with
>        robbie hardkiss  harry who?  rick preston
>             buck  dj dmc  tigger  noah
> 
> 
> live performances and special guests
>   goodies and garb galore  -- ***unique and unused location***
> 
> CALL FOR MORE INFO :  408.450.8624         415.512.5738

You didn't mention the date.  This is happening on the 25th, the Wednesday
night just before Thanksgiving.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 01:23:37 1992
From: Steven Collins <stevie@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 1:16:04 PST
Subject: That Milwaukee rave thang

For those of you who don't read alt.rave...

apparrently, all the charges were DROPPED, cept minors who were in
violation of curfew.  Civil suits against the cops are being arranged
as we speak.  WooWoo!

On a totally unrelated note, I just wanted to tell y'all some personal
stuff: I am extremely fucking happy that I have just received a check
for $100 for services rendered to the Philharmonia Baroque Orchestra,
which, translated, means that I am now truly a PROFESSIONAL SINGER.
Not a well paid one, mind you, but it's the thought that counts.  I
mean, true, singing 250-year old European music for a white
upper-class crowd is not ideal, but it's a start.  If that weren't
exciting enough, We're going in and recording starting sunday, which
means that in about a year any one of you could go into any reputable
classical music store and buy a CD with my voice on it, assuming that
you wanted to listen to 3 hours of handel and had $50 to spare.

Unfortunately, the downside of all this is that the mass amount of
singing combined with raving when I didn't really habe the time or
energy has made me ill, so no all-night partying or recreational drugs
for me for a while.  So I expect you all to go out there and rave for
me, and come back and tell me all the details!  Peace to my brethren,

Stevie.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 02:17:12 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 02:07:44 -0800
Subject: fuzzfez


	is it just me or does anyone else get bothered by
	extensive quoting of articles when being responded to?
	especially a transcript of a newspaper article.

	not a flame but a smiling request from a 1200bauder.


rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 02:34:32 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 02:15:16 -0800
Subject: ephedrine, minithin


	basically just low level speed, 7-11 style.  it's 
	a chemical (a strike in my book) and similar to
	caffiene.  i wouldn't mix it with e though.  vapor
	rub sounds better.  i remember as a little kid
	putting that stuff on my lower lip... zing.

rocky


From tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sat Nov 14 09:29:46 1992
From: Todd J Sines <tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 12:21:37 EST
Subject: IRC?

if anyone has been on IRC at all, please mail me: i am considerably bored 
sometimes and i would like to talk to other people out there.

also, is it Rave  or  Rave_Scen? i haven't talked to anyone yet that i know.

which is ill.


sines

-- 
----------------------------------------------enhanced--body release-----------
----------------------------------------------todd sines--614.299.9529---------
---+------------------------------------------tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu-
----------------------------------------------384 e17th ave columbus oh 43201--

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 12:34:44 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 12:18:56 PST
Subject: Re: ephedrine, minithin

Were I sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu, I might have said this:
> 
> 
> 	basically just low level speed, 7-11 style.  

Ephedrine is a decongestant and mild CNS stimulant.  It is very 
similar chemically to methamphetamine.  Pseudoephedrine, a 
configurational isomer, is sold under the trade name Sudafed.


							it's 
> 	a chemical (a strike in my book) 

This makes no sense... water is a chemical.  If you mean that it's
largely synthesized, which really shouldn't bother you anyway, that's
not neccesarily the case with all ephedrine... much commercial ephedrine is
extracted from Ma Huang, a plant.
	Besides, you don't want to know how they make Vap-o-rub... :)

					  and similar to
> 	caffiene.  i wouldn't mix it with e though.  vapor


No, it's not.  Ephedrine is very little like caffeine, chemically.


Not flaming, I just don't like all the chemical misinformation on the
net recently... (didn't someone say that X wasn't an amphetamine
recently?  Jeez.)

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 14:18:21 1992
From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 14:06:58 -0800
Subject: Revu: Only For the Headstrong

Following is a review of the CD sampler, _Only_For_the_Headstrong_

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

TITLE: _Only_For_the_Headstrong_
LABEL: Full Frequency Response Records (FFRR)
        c/o I.L.S., 825 8th Ave., NY 10019
No:    162 351 002-2
Medium: Full Size CD
Category: CD Sampler--Techno
Comments: " They said it couldn't last, but three years later, the show
still goes on. . .Escape from reality and levitate past the gate to
millenium.  You know the score! . . . Rush to get sorted--prepare to dance!"

CONTENT REVIEW

Track: 1
Artist: Human Resource
Title: Dominator
Mix: The Beltram Mix
Length: 4'32"
Category: Hardcore

This is, of course, the science fiction dance hall classic I first heard
here in SFO under Lewis' and Michael Bleu's stern tutelage at Uranus(q.v. if
you can).  Starting from the nuclear air raid sirens to the Go, Speed Racer
engine revs, all the way to "Gonna kiss myself--mwa! mwa!" break, this is
hardcore harshness made live.  Here is the famous sample of the Star Trek
(original) computer sounds.  Strangely, this song has never graced the
threshhold of the Eagle (to my knowledge), even though it's an S&M natural,
being all black leather wings and urban angst.

RATING: Four sirens, Three Robot Arms

Track: 2
Artist: Shaft
Title: Roobarb & Custard
Mix: Dr. Trips & Bob Bolts Mix
Length: 5'28"
Category: Hardcore/House

Fabulous, vampish samples ("slim pianist claws"), strong kick bass, funnky
bass line, wailing diva, quirky bleeps--this tune has a little for everyone.
 This one doesn't make me want to "throw my hands in the air"--lots of
breaks to vocal samples.  Probably a good mid-set, let 'em relax track.  And
I do have to wonder about Roobarb&Custard's letting "fly their secret
weapons".

RATING:  One hand, One hip

Track: 3
Artist: The Prodigy
Title: G Force
Mix: none
Length: 5'20"
Category: Hardcore

This one starts out sounding like the title music to a Tom Cruise elfin
fantasy flicck, then gets all dark and gothic, and on comes the breakbeats.
Then , the tempo cranks up with a fast vocal sample.  Builds to a very
uptempo bleep dance pace, then drops out to an organ break and back up to
chipmunk speed.  Lots of good fast piano breaks.  Good housecleaning music!

RATING: Five chipmunks, two hips, two feet, two hands

Track: 4
Artist: Yello
Title: Bostich
Mix: New Life
Length: 3'59"
Category: Euro, Ragamuffin, Gothic

Starts off with a male voice screaming "Eveybody--BE SOMEBODY".  Good advice
in this, or any, era.  Good euro stuff from the masters before their time.

RATING:  Two pairs o' baggies, one black turtleneck, one shaved head

Track: 5
Artist: DJ Seduction
Title: Hardcore Heaven
Mix: none
Length: 5'33"
Category: Hardcore

"Here it comes" this one starts out with lots of potential--bitchin,
building breakbeats.  It doesn't seem to go anywhere, however.  Some good
work with the balance slider on the vocal samples.  Another mid-set rester.
Fans of bleep dance will like this.

RATING:  three bleeps, one spandex unitard

Track: 6
Artist: Isotonik
Title: Different Strokes
Mix: none
Length: 6'11"
Category: Hardcore

"Different strokes for different folks, whatever makes you happ...E".  Great
vocal syncopation.  This one starts out kind of house-y.  The mid-bass drum
line breakbeat is catch.  Overall, a happy song.  This one has great pitch
bent bass synth throughout.  Excellent breaks that alter the pace but not
the dance beat.  Ooops, there's the industrial break, with a return on the
synth.  This tune manages to mix things up very well without breaking my
body rhythms.

RATING:  two E's, four hands

Track: 7
Artist: Program 2
Title: More Energy
Mix: Atomic
Length: 4'51"
Category: gothic, hardcore

This track has a great modulating synth opening, which goes no-where.  Opera
samples!  Homage to Kraftwerk.  Very pre-post modern.

RATING: one shaved head, one leather vest

Track: 8
Artist: Orbital
Title: Chime
Mix: Ray Keith Mutation
Length: 6'16"
Category: House

Starting from an awesome display of the balance slider, mowing down a house
diva, and one helluva hardcore breakbeat, this tune works my body hard.
There's a great break at 2'21" with a sample & loop of a needle rasping
against the record label that forms the bass line for one of the best breaks
I've heard in a while.  Into this is laid the high hat (yes, highhat in a
breakbeat that works!).  This track is a breakbeat sampler's delight, and a
wicked fresh dance hall gatherer.  Soon to be (if not already) a futurific
classic.

RATING:  One diva, three breakbeats, two feet, one smiley with a wink

Track: 9
Artist: East Side Beat
Title:  Ride Like the Wind
Mix: Factory Edit
Length: 3'41"
Category: Pop

I don't know how this piece of schlock got on this CD.  A truly bad cover of
a very bad top 40 original.  Not techno.  Bad.  Bad.  Bad.

RATING:  two cases of razor burn and two deep frownies

Track: 10
Artist: Convert
Title: Nightbird
Mix: 12" version
Length:  5'20"
Category: Happy hardcore

This tune combines ragamuffin synth with hardcore techniques to create a
dancey tune.  I liked.  Prominent bass line, nice warbly vocal samples.  Fun
music.

RATING:  two smileys, two feet, one hip, one hand

Track: 11
Artist:  Utah Saints
Title:  What Can You Do for Me
Mix:  none
Length: 6'06"
Category:  trying hard to be hardcore

Although I missed the recent concert/rave, this may be the next best thing
to being there.  This has some great vocal samples of what sounds like Annie
Lennox.  I was bothered by what seems to be a very ponderous beat that was
very precise (even for techno!).  I wanted to like this (one of my roommates
does), but it just doesn't do it for me.

RATING:  one sequencer, one sampler too many

Track: 12
Artist: Sound Source
Title: Take Me Up
Mix: Love Decade
Length: 5'15"
Category: House

This one starts off sounding like a Barry White ballad--a bad sign--but
picks up to house levels quickly with the diva and house bass.  It breaks
into a fast house DJ rap.  Should be a hit at the clubs.

RATING: one copy of Billboard magazine

Track: 13
Artist: Cuba Gooding vs Altern 8
Title: Happiness is just around the bend
Mix: none
Length: 4'31"
Category: Hardcore

Quirky male falsetto, bleeps, breaks, divas, everything thrown in on this
one.  Bitchin' tune.  Listen for it, or find it.  You'll know.

RATING:  three smileys, two hands in the air

Track: 14
Artist: Susan Clark
Title: Deeper
Mix: 7" Edit
Length: 3'50"
Category: Very Deep House

This is a great house groove (if you like house).  My only complaint is the
diva--her voice is just workin it too hard some times.  Likely to be heard
on the radio.

RATING: three grooves, one pair Garanimal's Mix 'N Match baggies

Track: 15
Artist: DSK
Title: What Would We Do
Mix: 9 Minutes of Madness 
Length: 7'39" (9 minutes, ha!)
Category: Hard House

This is a good tune, with slightly overdone DJ breaks.  One major annoyance
is pops/skips--probably from the original LP/EP.

RATING: one make out session on video, with a drop out at the good parts


OVERALL FAVES:
   Dominator
   G Force
   Different Strokes
   Chime
   Happines is just around the bend
"I Liked 'Em" Factor:
   33%
OVERALL COMMENTS:
   Could be good from the used bin, or if you're a collector

From bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu Sat Nov 14 14:29:50 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 14:24:28 -0800
Subject: Re:  IRC?

Acually, I've worked a lot of the kinks out of the Virtual Rave telnet site
I've set up on haas, so if people wanted to use that it would be great.  I've
been on it late at night for the past week or so talking to joachim and susie,
and the more the merrier.  :)  If you are able to have multiple windows open,
I would suggest opening one and leaving it open until someone else comes on - 
I've noticed by looking at logs that people log on about once every 20 minutes
or so during the day, then log out fairly quickly cause no one's there.

So anyways, to get on, do a telnet haas 7283 - you don't need a special client
binary to run it.  Log in as "new" if you haven't before.  I may make a change
soon that would mean people will have to re-login as new, but I'll let everyone
know when that happens...

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 16:27:02 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 12:21:10 PST
Subject: a revalation

As I'm sitting here, I was thinking about how addicting raving can
be as I'm sure many of you are aware.  Someone said to me that they
thought I have been raving for some time, it just took the rest of the
world to catch up with me.  When I think about it, I have been "raving"
a long time.  I started "raving" when I was about 16, I  would drop
wait till my parents had gone or were at work when I would have the whole
"space" to my self,  I would get all of my favorite music and
I would spend several hours dancing with my self.  Through out the years,
even when I was not "tripping", when I was loosing touch with mySelf, I 
could always reconnect through The Dance.  In fact a good indicator of how
well my life is going is by the amount of dancing I am doing.  Now when I 
discovered raving, I realized that here were a bunch of people who KNEW!
So, for me, it was a natural evolutionary course for me to follow,  how
many of you out there have similar feelings/stories ?

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 16:50:01 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 16:40:16 -0800
Subject: Zanzibar on friday nights


	I had a truely great time at Zanzibar last night.  I started the night
in a mood apt for Friday the 13th (I was going to see Dracula but it was sold
out, I got a parking ticket while doing so, work was a pain, Lighthouse was
cancelled and Vortex, my second choice, is in a 21+ space, etc) so to cheer
myself up I went into the city and Mykl and I decided to hit Zanzibar for a
few drinks.  There was no cover, and it evidently wasn't 21+, so I was just
going to relax and talk and have a peaceful evening.  Turns out Josh is there
every Friday night spinning house music, and even thought the dance space is
REALLY small the crowd was very fun to be in and the music, while leaning a
little towards the wailing diva spectrum of house, was fun to dance to.
There was a woman there who I swear was someone I had had a crush on in the
8th grade, but alas wasn't. :)  And it wasn't a case of, well, anyplace is
fun if you're with your friends: most of the people I was dancing with were
and remained complete unknowns... anyways, if your friday looks dead, go
to Zanzibar, it's free, it lasts until 2 I think, and the atmosphere is 
great. 

	Brian

p.s. - Hi kat!



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 20:26:22 1992
From: Renfield E. Feinstein <ren@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 20:07:53 -0800
Subject: Re:  Fun in NY

Greetings, night child. While I am (ashamedly) not pure NYC, I did do the
highschool thing in Connecticut, minutes from Manhattan.  The word being --
NASA (if available) and the wherehouse (if still around). Also many good
clubs, depending on your taste in the harder goodies (check out the gothic
church turned industrial club -- name keeps changing, grooves always rock)
peace
r e n

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 15 00:47:54 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 00:34:50 -0800
Subject: an interesting quote


for all of you who don't read Details magazine, here's an interesting
quote my brother read to me over the phone from the Dec 1992 issue:

	"Rave is the refuge of the mentally deficient.  It's made by
	dull people for dull people."  ---Morrissey

uh, yeah, whatever.  Thanks for the NSHO, Mr. Excitement (no flames,
please, from all you Smiths/Morrissey fans - I'm one too.  please note
song reference in subject line).

always, leah

d80
(that's me, yawning


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 15 01:19:17 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 1:03:36 PST
Subject: Re: an interesting quote

Were I Leah Reich, I might have said this:
> 
> 
> for all of you who don't read Details magazine, here's an interesting
> quote my brother read to me over the phone from the Dec 1992 issue:
> 
> 	"Rave is the refuge of the mentally deficient.  It's made by
> 	dull people for dull people."  ---Morrissey
> 
> uh, yeah, whatever.  Thanks for the NSHO, Mr. Excitement (no flames,
> please, from all you Smiths/Morrissey fans - I'm one too.  please note
> song reference in subject line).

I knew this girl once who made this connection:
Morrissey == Annoying Man from sat. night live

think about it... have you ever seen them in the same room at the same
time?

:)

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 15 16:57:40 1992
From: gosine@gnl2.ucdavis.edu
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 16:47:46 PST
Subject: Hip Hop @ Vortex

Wasn't that a great party?  I danced straight through from Josh to James 
to halfway through Buck's set.  I thoght it was refreshing to hear the 
Hip Hop, disco, break beats that Buck was throwing down.  I don't think 
I'll ever stop liking that Old school shit.  I am looking forward to more
funky cuts and Hip Hop at future parties.
Peace and Love    Shiva's Son

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 15 17:54:41 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 17:41:49 -0800
Subject: Re:  Zanzibar on friday nights

Footnote:  Zanzibar is all-ages by virtue of the fact they serve food
(and quite excellent food at that, but that's another story).  It turns
out that's a major loophole in the 21+ conspiracy.

>From our experience this weekend, ZZ is having a renaissance as a dance
club (which was eclipsed somewhat by it's success as a restaurant), so
consider it as an option for you're next pre-rave weekend warmup.

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 15 20:34:43 1992
From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:23:25 -0800
Subject: Vortex

The Vortex was a jammin party on Saturday.  It was all ages at King Street.
I arrived late/early, so I'm sure I missed at least one set, if not two.
When I got to King St., I almost kept moving, since there was no line, the
street wasn't nearly as parked up as the Wicked held there recently (oh
yeah, I'm due for that verry late review), and there were maybe 6 people
chillin outside.  I decided to check it out anyway, and was pleased when I
went inside to find a floor full of people, perhaps 250-300 people groovin
to the music.  
     There were some great black light artworks (very large scale) all along
the walls, and over the DJ table was a Vortex writing--all nicely done, and
very trippy.  The crowd was very friendly, lots of smiles, bocu dancing.
Four speaker columns--very crisp sound system.  Security was low key, but
present.  Only one person asked me if I knew where to score some E--no way,
dude. . .what's your name? [and he faded back intoo the crowd at that].
     Attendance seemed to oscillate...there were moments when the dance
floor felt full, and then it seemed to empty out a bit. . .strange.  Music
was a good mix of hip-hop, tribal, soem good acid jazz, and other stuff I
know I can't label.  Friendly flyer people.
     I stayed until six--as I left, the eastern sky was red; a beautiful
sight to greet me.  I do have one serious gripe about King St.--they need
ventilation there big time.  I was coughing up phlegm most of today.  They
really seem to dig the "fill it up with fog" effect, and did that 3 times
while I was there.  It took at least half to three quarters of an hour for
the stuff to clear out each time.  Please, if anyone knows the folks there,
please ask them to cool it some.
     Anyway, I had a bite to eat at an all night place, and stomped on over
to the End Up to check out the early morning scene there (something I've
wanted to do for a while).  Not so strangely, lots of Vortex people there,
as well as from other raves, too, no doubt.  I like the space at the End Up,
but after all the open spaces of the King St. venue, I got feeling a little
claustrophobic, and was winding down, so I took my bones back home for a
nice nap.
     Overall, it was a good time for me.  I especially liked the video
effects that were projected on the wall. Didn't catch their name, but I'd
like to see more of that--lots o' rave footage, fun old movie stuff, weird
visual effects, and more.  Oh, yes, water was free, and the price was a
little steep (15$US), free candy, and Peachy's Puffs was present.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 15 21:28:10 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 18:24:59 -0800
Subject: Upside-down rave


Here's the minority option:  we knew something odd was up at Vortex when
Brian and I arrived shortly after opening and who was spinning but...
Garth???  Doesn't he usually *close* the party?

Then upon our return from the Hardkiss mini-party at Zanzibar, who do we
find up second but Jeno???

This is like a baseball team inverting it's batting order (sorry for
those offended by sports analogies, with whom I usually sympathize).
Great for novelty value, but does it really work?  Josh played a good
set, but James mixed together the harsher metallic edged stuff with the
deeper grooves without much thought to logic or flow.  I wasn't around
for much of Buck's set, but the energy at this point was hardly very
positive and dissipating rapidly.

It seems there was some political weirdness going on about Vortex using
the same space as next week's Wicked, with a similar lineup (details are
sketchy).  This was a shame as it seemed to me the organizers had very
much the right spirit and weren't out for the quick buck.

The highpoint of Vortex (for me) was a screening of a compilation of
rave videos accumulated in the last four months or so, including the
last two FMR's, Vision, the early August Basics, an event in Sacramento,
some Ocean Beach and Golden Gate Park footage, etc.  The group of
videographers calling themselves Nitty Gritty Video put this together,
and apparently they have lots of footage taken at Connection, which
I'm arranging to get a dub of and will try to organize a screening for
sfraves in the near future.

Unfortunately, the contrast between the ecstatic spirit depicted in the
videos and the limited energy on the dance floor below made the latter
all the more frustrating, for me at least.

I'm looking forward to hearing about Groove Kitchen (I wasn't able to
make it), and the great Woopy Ball / Labyrinth shootout...

- MykL G

P.S.  Geoff W. had a cameo appearance in the FMR video from Bonny Doon --
way to go, Geoff!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 15 22:25:19 1992
From: Renfield E. Feinstein <ren@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:46:45 -0800
Subject: Re:  Hip Hop @ Vortex

disco must die.

r e n

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 00:30:37 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Mon, 16 Nov 92 00:14:20 PST
Subject: i]ll take the morrissey flames and relish it

REPLY TO 11/15/92 00:42 FROM leah@soda.berkeley.edu "Leah Reich": an
interesting quote

morrissey]s just whiney ]cause he knows he the one who he wrote
about in his old smiths songs: the two faced life of sell-out vs.
occassional (less and less all the time) lyrical genius, the boy
who gets his dreams and then recognizes the costs, but only sings
about them. like woody allen for the 70]s, morrissey hit the nerve
of 80]s teenage angst, and he]s since been spinning his wheels in a
mud bog of doldrums. i once saw a computer program that transformed
any song you gave it into a skinny puppy song by placing words like
{ogre}, {dark}, {the deed}, {howl} at random locations. i think the
same could be done for morrisey with stock phrases - my friends and
i have been working on this song ever since we saw smidgens of
distinction (kitchens) at the edge (sledge):
i wake up and i want to cry, why do i wake up every day and want to
cry, wouldn]t it be easier just to die - die -aye-aye? wouldn]t it
be easier just to die. and when i wake up, i want to see your face,
but see the broken mirror and the boy who can]t decide -aye-aye-ide,
the boy who can]t decide. do you really think i]m deep when i don]t
call? do i really think you]re pretty when i do? oh, why do we love
each other when anyone else wil do? etc...
i can write morrisey lyrics like diamond d can freestyle.
pat

To:  leah@soda.berkeley.edu
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 00:40:58 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Mon, 16 Nov 92 00:24:13 PST
Subject: Re: a revalation

REPLY TO 11/14/92 16:22 FROM geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org "Geoff White": a
revalation

i agree with the power of the music thing. but not necessarily the
(scratch that last stuff, i can]t really edit) however, the feelings
came to me and some friends when we listened to old jazz til early
in the morining, played cards, and dowsed ourselves in schotch, or
something like that. i don]t quite think of raves as evolutionary
for me, just another trip in another direction towards other ways
people can fit together with themselves and others in deep
experience. what scares me about raves, despite my addiction. is the
ease of {deep} connection - it]s like kids in the candy-store of
experience, crank the volume, hit the drugs, and body doesn]t have
much choice. i]d like to find some connection between me and
something where some effort has to be put in to reach plateaus.
i think friendships are the way to go on that one, and you don]t
even need any music. i]m sure hiking mt. everest would work to.


pat

To:  geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 03:15:06 1992
From: Joachim Vance (The Underdog) <jvance@einstein.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 02:57:18 -0800
Subject: smart beverages


Susie asked me to repost this here:

From:    Susan Kameny <SK2479A@american.edu>

Hiya I read a cheez artical in a d.c. throw away mag that listed
different phone numbers for smart beverages cataloges...so here yah
go...
	smart mart 1.212.254.6055
	life services supplement 1.800.542.3230
	smart products 1.800.858.6520
	star groove 1.203.245.0688
	love source 7 1.415.979.8177 

enjoy...partyon 

susie...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 03:18:13 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 03:01:33 -0800
Subject: morrisey


	as far as i am concerned morrisey is an exit on
	highway one between emeline and soquel.

	i guess that's a santa cruz only joke

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 09:49:36 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 09:31:42 PST
Subject: Re: The Energizr

the date is the 25th...

the location is a virgin space in the south bay area... [secret] q8o

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 09:52:32 1992
From: Pete Reiter <megatest!plethorax!preiter@sun.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 9:33:26 PST
Subject: SOMA on a Saturday night

Well, here are my impressions of Saturday night...

I started the evening at Vortex, at 12:30 p.m.. It was pretty much empty
at that point. I hung out outside for a while and most of the people
going in looked like misplaced clubbers, so I decided to check out the
Woopy Ball (for which I had high hopes, despite its location). I ran into
Brian on 4th st. and we drove down to the Concourse. The line was chock
full of high school kids in their Fresh Jive t-shirts. The purported
cover was $20. I passed.

To make a long story short, I ended up at Groove Kitchen. The first DJ was
Dani, who I had never heard before. Her style is sort of housey and funky
with alot of hip-hop beats. I was really getting off on it. We should look
into getting her to play Connection 2. Then Spun did his usual excellent
set of tweaky acid house. 

This was a dancing rave. The atmosphere was not real conducive to sitting
and talking. But, the vibe on the dance floor was excellent.

One new flyer:

mister baked raindrop presents:
Happy Happy Joy Joy
djs josh, tony, ghost & carlos
$5 10pm til ? - visuals by ioa core
November 27th
information (415) 995-2501

Two from the rumor mill:

The Basics in December will be the last one and
There is a Gathering coming up on New Years Eve.


						Pete

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 10:39:23 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:29:27 PST
Subject: The Search for the Holy Rave



Friday - Stayed in.  Worked on some writing and musical projects, spent
some quality time with Janie (not that raving isn't quality time, but...).
All in all, a productive evening to help remind me that there is more to
life than work and parties.  Cover: $0

Saturday -

2:30 - 5:30: Vortex was a mediocre event.  The sealed box-with-balcony
at 174 King St. is not a good space for fog machines.  The sound system,
while good was unnecessarily pushed to distortion.  The magic of Freedom
Harvest, ComeUnity etc. was not really there for us.  Still, it was nice 
to see friends.  Cover: $15, overpriced.

5:30 - 7:00: Took Janie home and chilled a little.  She crashed, I went
out and met 2 friends (also Vortex refugees) at Groove Kitchen.  650 
Howard is a nice space and the sound system was cleaner.  Nevertheless,
the magic wasn't there either.   Maybe we missed it.  Cover: $10 thrown
away.

7:00 - 8:30: Zipped over to the Afterlife at DNA,  not much was going on.
I  started to feel tired and went home.  Cover: $3 

8:30 - 11:00:  Showered and roused Janie to go out for a little breakfast
and a gallon or two of coffee.  She then goes food shopping, I go home 
and pass out.  Phone rings at about 10:00 and for some reason I answer
it.  It's one of my friends, still alive at the Afterlife telling me
that things are finally happening  there - great music, wild dancing inside
and out on the street, high energy, etc..  Still in a stupor, I 
am very noncomittal but get dressed.  Janie comes home and we fling the
groceries into the appropriate places as I convince her to go out with me.
She showers and dresses in record time, we hop on the bike, and arrive
at a street party taking place outside of the DNA lounge.  

11:00 - 1:00  We're shooed inside, no charge and yes, it *was* happening. 
Lots of familiar faces from last nite`s mediocre events: the magic was
there despite a flaky sound system and somewhat claustrophobic layout of
the place.   But in the end, its the spirit of the people that make a 
good rave.  When they closed shop, the promoter, or whoever got on the 
stage to tell the crowd that neither the part nor the beach was happening, 
but something at 150 Folsom was.  We were pretty satisfied, however and
went out for a couple of more gallons of coffee  (I suppose that at this 
point it was mainly for ritualistic purposes) with friends. 

So next week there's the MBM/Orbital show on thursday, and then maybe 
we'll just wait for Sunday morning at the Afterlife.  But by now I
should know better than to try to predict how things are going
to turn out. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 10:51:16 1992
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:41:30 PST
Subject: panorama

A (highly questionable) suggestion for a future location-

TOP OF TWIN PEAKS?

there's pre-programmed parking available; terrific views of the 
entire BA; funky flashing red lights on the two towers; and i think 
the sound would be ok (it wouldn't disturb the residents down the 
hill). This could be a good location if Connection/Alternity were 
on a weeknight; weekends attract too many tourists. Don't know 
anything about permits for the place...

Just a thought-

Jocelyn

From jhthomas@us.oracle.com Mon Nov 16 11:05:47 1992
From: "jhthomas.US1" <jhthomas@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 11:06:45 PST
Subject: Re: panorama

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU's message of 11-16-92 10:48

just my take on this idea

Pro's
view
unique, unused area
parking (some, maybe 200 cars)
interesting area, multileveled ;D
outdoors
nice stable area for equipment, plus no prob to drive in the stuff
no in and out problem!

cons
noise problems, very near some expensive houses with direct lines to the MAN
would have to completely rely on the goodwill of people to pay, no way to
regulate entry
high bustability factor, police do patrol fairly regularly
high tourist factor, major "make-out" place (maybe this is a pro, introduce the
scene to new people
COLD AND WINDY!!!!!  You are on the top of a hill, the wind is always going
have to bring in all power and water
no real walls or cliffs to play lights off of

I haven't been doing much witht he scene lately, real busy with school, but
have been thinking about interesting sites in the city, you already used my
(not so anymore) secret primo spot, Bonney Doon, we used to have crazy bonfire
parties there with close to 1000 people when I was in high school in Los Gatos,
never a problem.

outdoors in sf is going to be a problem jsut from the population density unless
we use some commercial area that closes down at night, like by the bay, under
the bridge, that sort of area, will keep thinking

Joe


---- Included Message ----

Received: 11-16-92 10:48                         Sent: 11-16-92 10:48 
From: WRPYR:sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU
To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu 
Subject: panorama
Cc: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu 
Reply-To: WRPYR:sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU


A (highly questionable) suggestion for a future location-

TOP OF TWIN PEAKS?

there's pre-programmed parking available; terrific views of the 
entire BA; funky flashing red lights on the two towers; and i think 
the sound would be ok (it wouldn't disturb the residents down the 
hill). This could be a good location if Connection/Alternity were 
on a weeknight; weekends attract too many tourists. Don't know 
anything about permits for the place...

Just a thought-

Jocelyn


From sfraves-request Mon Nov 16 11:06:15 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:57:33 PST
Subject: Re:  panorama

The last time I was there, I thought the same thing; I was there on a 
weekend and some kids were blasting their car stereos.  I'd agree that
weekends draw too many tourists and boozers and potentially hostile
visitors, but also I doubt that there would be any permits allowed
for nights (maybe days, I don't know).  Maybe this is a good opportunity
for the mobile rave idea that was passed around a few months back; load
the sound system in the back of a truck; have some one watching the 
approaching roads for cops, when they come, shut everything down and 
head to Ocean Beach or something :)

-Derek

________________________________________________
 Derek Chung			Oracle Graphics	
 dhchung@oracle.com 		  (415)506-6195

-------------------------
>From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 10:49:32 1992
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:41:30 PST
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Message-Id: <9211161841.AA02991@dre>
To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: panorama
Cc: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Status: R

A (highly questionable) suggestion for a future location-

TOP OF TWIN PEAKS?

there's pre-programmed parking available; terrific views of the 
entire BA; funky flashing red lights on the two towers; and i think 
the sound would be ok (it wouldn't disturb the residents down the 
hill). This could be a good location if Connection/Alternity were 
on a weeknight; weekends attract too many tourists. Don't know 
anything about permits for the place...

Just a thought-

Jocelyn


From asargent@us.oracle.com Mon Nov 16 11:51:03 1992
From: Al Sargent <asargent@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 11:50:20 PST
Subject: Re: panorama


hmmm.... it could be a good place. But having hiked up there a few times
during sunset, it can be really *windy* and cold sometimes.

al


~~  From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 10:46:39 1992
~~  Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:41:30 PST
~~  From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
~~  To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu
~~  Subject: panorama
~~  Cc: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
~~  
~~  A (highly questionable) suggestion for a future location-
~~  
~~  TOP OF TWIN PEAKS?
~~  
~~  there's pre-programmed parking available; terrific views of the 
~~  entire BA; funky flashing red lights on the two towers; and i think 
~~  the sound would be ok (it wouldn't disturb the residents down the 
~~  hill). This could be a good location if Connection/Alternity were 
~~  on a weeknight; weekends attract too many tourists. Don't know 
~~  anything about permits for the place...
~~  
~~  Just a thought-
~~  
~~  Jocelyn
~~  

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 12:00:54 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 11:37:03 -0800
Subject: Re:  panorama

Don't know about Twin Peaks, but how about Stern Grove?  This is a
highly wooded valley in the Outer Sunset bordering on 19th Ave and
Ocean (hi, Steve B!) with a large stage and grassy field -- they have
classical music concerts there in the summer.  The sound isolation from the
outside world is excellent.  The Hardkisses had a morning after-party there
once -- it was pretty small, but no hassles of any type occurred.

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 12:15:55 1992
From: tahl@tfs.com (Tahl Milburn)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:01:11 PST
Subject: Re:  Hip Hop @ Vortex

Seemed like that was a bit of attitude there....  But really nifty musik.
Funny thing, though, I think it was first time in my life that I was *cold*
dancing in an inside venue.  Kinda strange considering there was a reasonable
number of people there, too.

Tahl

From reuling@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 12:55:43 1992
From: John Reuling <reuling@medisg.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:43:17 -0800
Subject: Re: panorama 


> A (highly questionable) suggestion for a future location-
> 
> TOP OF TWIN PEAKS?

> there's pre-programmed parking available; terrific views of the entire BA;
> funky flashing red lights on the two towers; and i think the sound would be
> ok (it wouldn't disturb the residents down the hill).

You'd be surprised at how well the sound carries down the hill.  Try
standing on Burnett Street below the antenna some windy evening.  You can
hear quite a bit of what's being said up above.




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 13:32:19 1992
From: sybase!dit@sun.com (David Trumbull)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:05:21 PST
Subject: Re:  Hip Hop @ Vortex

> disco must die.
> 
> r e n

oh ren, don't be confined by that 'disco sucks' stance that your older brother
who listened to iron maiden and judas priest forced upon you. don't feel forced
to criticize. house has had one booty cheek bouncing to disco since the 
'beginning' and is considered by many to be the firstborn child of disco. 

s u p e r h i g h
'ya start poppin your fingers and stompin your feet while you're moving your 
body to the disco beat'

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 13:57:41 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 16 Nov 1992 12:39:05 -0700
Subject: RE:  Hip Hop @ Vortex

Cold at the King Street Garage?  you must have been sick, that is the hottest
rave local I have ever been in.

NUT
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Tahl Milburn on Mon, Nov 16, 1992 12:33 PM
Subject: Re:  Hip Hop @ Vortex
To: gosine@gnl2.ucdavis.edu; sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu

Seemed like that was a bit of attitude there....  But really nifty musik.
Funny thing, though, I think it was first time in my life that I was *cold*
dancing in an inside venue.  Kinda strange considering there was a reasonable
number of people there, too.

Tahl

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:01:11 PST
From: tahl@tfs.com (Tahl Milburn)
Message-Id: <9211162001.AA10535@dpb1.TFS>
To: gosine@gnl2.ucdavis.edu, sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re:  Hip Hop @ Vortex

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 14:09:12 1992
From: cspot@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 13:51:09 -0800
Subject: 120 Minutes, Last Night

Well, after being unable to get into IRC last night from the lab, I went home to the dorm. 120 Minutes was on the TV in the lobby, direct from the first stop of the Communion tour. I sat down, hoping to see maybe a MBM or Orbital video.

Meat Beat Manifesto's visas were held up for some reason, so the show the program was filmed at was just Orbital and Ultramarine. I'll try to summarize the show's contents.

First of all, not one video by any of the bands on tour was shown. They did manage to squeeze in the new REM clip, though.

Kendall interviewed some DJ's from the tour "You've gotten pointers from some of the Detroit originators of techno, right?"  "Yes, but what I play is really my own style."

Kendall interviewed some artists whose work is being shown on the tour. "What sort of materials do you use?" "Basically anything we find on the street...it looks like metal, but it's mostly plastic."

Part one of an exclusive interview with Ned's Atomic Scumbag (in studio, nothing to do with Communion). "Well, we thought 'Are You Normal?' would be quite an arresting title."

Kendall interviewed Ultramarine (one of the members was wearing a shirt with all the Loony Toons characters on it). "Is what you play techno, and if so, what kind of techno? Are you trance?" "Well, in the spectrum of techno, we're...we use elements of techno...we aren't really techno, I suppose...we really like the sound of an acoustic guitar." They mentioned that Ultramarine's album, 'Every Man and Woman Is a Star,' would see domestic release in the US soon.

Kendall interviewed a skanky audience member. "Who did you come here to see tonight?" "Meat Beat." "Well, I guess you're disappointed then. But Orbital will still be good. Have you heard their new single, 'Halcyon'?" "What?" "The new Orbital single, 'Halcyon'!" "No, I haven't heard it, but I've heard it's good. I want to get it." "How do you like Ultramarine so far?" (Ultramarine was playing in the background. Sounded decent.) "I like it!" "So thumbs up for Ultramarine?" "Thumbs up!"

Part two of Ned's Galactic Shithead interview. "Well, the first album we wanted it to be real agressive, you know? The new album, you can sit down and listen to it more. But it's still good for thrashing around."

Extremely short clip of Orbital live. I didn't realize it was Orbital until later, when Kendall said they'd show "more live footage of Orbital." Anyway, I didn't recognize the song offhand.

Kendall interviewed Orbital. "You remixed a Meat Beat Manifesto song, right?" "Yes, we did two actually. The second--I'm not sure if it's been released yet--we're going to play tonight, only without the vocal, sort of a cover version I guess." "So do you think that later on the tour you and Meat Beat will be doing some live remixing of each other's stuff?" [Either no answer, or something really non-comittal. Really stupid question, even for Kendall.] "You guys are brothers, right? Are you from London?" "Well, we're actually from Kent, but [one or the other, can't remember which] lives in London now." "Are you excited about the tour?" "Yes."

Longer clip of Orbital live. They were playing "Choice," and it didn't look like they were doing a whole hell of a lot. One was standing there clapping his hands, the other was slowly turning a knob on a synth (distortion on a 303?). I don't know how to reconcile what I saw in the footage with the reports I've read that Orbital is one of the only techno groups to improvise in their live shows.

At the end of the program, Kendall announced that next week's show would be coming to you direct from the Communion tour's stop at the Bridge in San Francisco. I can't wait for Thursday...

C.

                       |    They have corrupted themselves,
Chris.Hilker           |    their spot is not the spot of his children:
cspot@cats.ucsc.edu    |    they are a perverse and crooked generation.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 14:18:33 1992
From: cspot@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 14:00:05 -0800
Subject: Apology


Sorry about the shitty formatting on that 120 minutes messages.
I uploaded it from my mac and forgot to add carriage returns.

C.

From map@cs.brown.edu Mon Nov 16 15:00:17 1992
From: mike perkowitz <map@bimini.cs.brown.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:07:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: about the music...


i'm sorry. i didn't mean to sound rude. i would love to buy more music
than i do and go out more, but i feel like i just can't. it's already the
case that my friends have to pick their lower jaws up off the floor when i
describe my most recent cd spree.

mainly, i think i'd enjoy going to a rave and hearing more stuff i know.
not that i'm trying to be cool or something, but i like that frisson of
recognition.

(sorry if i insulted you...)

mike


-----------------------------------------------------------------
  t   i   n   t   i   n   n   a   b   u   l   a   t   i   o   n

          Mike Perkowitz               map@cs.brown.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 15:01:42 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:35:00 -0800
Subject: Re:  Hip Hop @ Vortex

The subjectivity of the rave experience is certainly becoming evident.
Although I had some occasional problems with the music and the fog machine,
I really enjoyed Vortex.  Perhaps it was because of my enforced absence from
the scene due to bronchitis and domestic hassles; perhaps it was also from
being with some really terrific people (that includes you too, Brian!) who
were having a great time.  Sorry that folks didn't enjoy as much.

Paul

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 15:02:28 1992
From: sdavis@staff.tc.umn.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:40:31 CST
Subject: hello from the blustery midwest


Are there any Bay Area raves going mobile? This Minneapolis e-mail user 
is curious, hopeful...
Though we have had our own techno-scene here in the Twin Cities for several 
years, the first raves appeared here- locally produced- late this spring. 
They're well-received by the populace and the independant press.

return the message with any news, or just say hello to the midwest

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 15:20:44 1992
From: "Your friend, Mike {!)" <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:17 PDT
Subject: dirt on shirts


As far as shirts go, I will echo the one who liked the Anarchic Adjustment
stuff....does anyone have their catalog number or anything?  I suppose
I could just call them down here..

Also..we should try writing to the Vicks people for a company catalog..
most companies always seem to have shirts and stuff for their products
for their workers..

Glad the FMR went well...but the way I have been waking up lately
(shivering), I don't know if I can handle any outside raves for awhile..

also plug--See your raver friends Pete Gracious and me in The Tempest
coming up at Santa Clara University opening this Friday...it's a
good show, and plays are always a nice thing to go to before a rave...
(it would seem!)...anyway, we open up Friday October 13 (yes, I know
it's bad luck) and stay open until the next Saturday...for ticket
information, try calling the department at 408-554-4989..

it would be fun to see any of you if you can make it!  Support Art!
(who's Art?)

mike
(stephano--the original Shakespearean Raver)


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 15:27:32 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 13:26:29 PST
Subject: Re:  The Search for the Holy Rave

> So next week there's the MBM/Orbital show on thursday

But Meat Beat Manifesto *still* isn't in the country yet.  The people running
the tour are *praying* that they'll be able to make it for the SF, LA and
San Diego dates this Thursday thru Saturday.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 15:28:03 1992
From: "Your friend, Mike {!)" <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:44 PDT
Subject: another party...

I didn't see this one on the list, and I just got it in my mailbox
yesterday, so I thought I would post:

massive brings
	greed vs. 5-Sould
Saturday, november 14, 1992

fly style soul jazz funk dancehall
from djs north, south, east & west			10pm on going after houryour mr. five djs						(s)$5 before 11pm
massive hazz dj gerry v & dancehall selector
dj kirk
dj george (sf)
dj g-bo the pro (ny)
dj daz (la)
dj greyboy (sd)
plus special guests
					21up with id 
					55 Natoma, San Francisco
					(btwn 1st and 2nd)
					fatline:415-207-3668

at the doors, julie & warren
props to straight from the lip
and behind the post office


have a good weekend

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 15:54:02 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:36:00 PST
Subject: Re:  The Search for the Holy Rave

Were I Michael Wertheim, I might have said this:
> 
> 						        The people running
> the tour are *praying* that they'll be able to make it for the SF, LA and
> San Diego dates this Thursday thru Saturday.
> 
> 

They aren't the only ones :)

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 16:33:23 1992
From: "Your friend, Mike {!)" <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:37 PDT
Subject: testing balms

I remember reading an article in OUT which had a good article on the
politics and history of MDMA, and it is very cool that this scientist
got permission to test...apparently some researchers never wanted to
say to many good things about the drug because theyt feared they would get
their grants taken away.

I had someone stick and inhaler in my nose  last rave and it was interesting...
cleared my sinuses, that's for sure!)

At Jama Rave (Mushroom was busted) some girl turned toward me, smiled,
and informed me that I had not been Tiger Balmed yet, as I opened my mouth
to agree, she swabbed me upper lip to chin with the stuff and giggled off
as I went reeling backward...I am not sure if I liked having my lips feel like
they had just dropped off, but it was an experience...I wll admit, I wimped
out after a couple of seconds and started wiping this shit off like mad.
Tiger Balm comes in a little red jar and I remember my mom using it when I was
in third grade...ostensibly for aches due to running too much...riiiiight!)


Anyway, the craziest feeling experience I had ever had was a Devotion, the 
last good Sharon rave I went to...some guy was walking around with this 
basketball sized metal ball, with two stalks coming out of it...VERY giddy
(first timE), I asked him (oh so politely) if I could touch his ball, and he
let me...I grasped it with both hands and was quite shocked (literally) to find
that it was charged with electricity and I was being zapped...my hands clenched
up, which made them pull away from the ball, and I sort of staggered away,
staring at my hands, again wondering if I really enjoyed it or not....it 
was so funny...(I have one of those "fond memory" smiles on right now...:))..

anyway, I am trapped in Santa Clara...I might try to go out on Saturday night..
anyone have any suggestions?  If I don't go out, I will see everyone the 
28th definitely (is it bad to schedule a rave two weeks in advance? No? good.)

feeling talkative...

mi
ke

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 16:33:29 1992
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:21:13 -0800
Subject: Re:  120 Minutes, Last Night

Well, I *like* Ned's Atomic Dustbin.  Don't slag 'em for the rotten
interview, that is par for Kendall's Kourse.  If anything, the interview
with the Soul Asylum guys was worse.  Kendall is the Russell Harty of
the 1990s -- brain death with a live mike.

The video selection last night was the worst in weeks.  Not only do we
have REM's extremely boring new one (which is, after all, in heavy
rotation on Regular MTV), but lame-o bands like Blind Melon continue to
get heavy attention.  Although finally seeing The Mats' 'Alex Chilton'
on TV was a kick.  

I don't think DK would know a rave if it kicked him in the butt.  The
funniest moment was when he asked the Ultramarine guys whether they were
techno, and if so, yunnow, was it like trance or breakbeat.  Wonder what
music industry rags he's been reading to catch up on the terminology.
And as noted, despite the incessant plugs for Communion, no real video
from any of the three headliners.  

Well, Kendall was wearing a cap with a badge -- never did see all the
writing, but the biggest word on it, in about 72 point bold, was STUPID.
And that is good enough for me.

These desultory proceedings made a repeat viewing of "E. Goode" seem rather,
er, invigorating.  

I watch 120M only because every once in a while something really good gets
on, in addition to catching the new ones by the usual stars in the
'alternative' firmament.  But this week's episode made me wonder whether
it's worth the time, or maybe I should just shut up, tape it, get a 
good Sunday night's rest, and zap through the boring videos and interviews
to check out the good stuff later in the week.   Feh.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 16:33:37 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 17:17:54 MST
Subject: 120 Minutes, Last Night

> Meat Beat Manifesto's visas were held up for some reason

They have them now.

> Kendall interviewed some DJ's from the tour "You've gotten pointers from
> some of the Detroit originators of techno, right?"  "Yes, but what I play is
> really my own style."

Wotta wank.  Tony Fletcher works with Dave Kendall at Communion.  It would be
like my partner John interviewing me.  So far he is pigging the set.  I doubt
I'll get a chance to spin at all that night with Tony DJing EVERY set between
bands and Dave blabbing whatever the hell he's supposed to blab.  I asked if
there would be any space for local DJs and they stated, "before and after."
Thanks a lot guys.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 16:33:49 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 17:19:59 MST
Subject: Re:  The Search for the Holy Rave

> > So next week there's the MBM/Orbital show on thursday
> 
> But Meat Beat Manifesto *still* isn't in the country yet.  The people running
> the tour are *praying* that they'll be able to make it for the SF, LA and
> San Diego dates this Thursday thru Saturday.

I've been emphasizing that they received their visas last Thursday (12th).
They are making it.  Every reference on the contracts I did was towards Meat
Beat instead of anyone else.  If they don't show here Wednesday because
someone has been lying to me, then someone owes me a wad of money.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 16:39:48 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:16:23 PST
Subject: Re:  120 Minutes, Last Night

C. says:

> At the end of the program, Kendall announced that next week's show would be coming to you direct from the Communion tour's stop at the Bridge in San Francisco. I can't wait for Thursday...
> 
> C.

neither can i!  which brings me to the question...(hee hee)...
is anyone from san jose (or the area) going up to that show
and leaving semi-early?  if so i would reeeeeeeealy appreciate
riding up with ya...

this may not be necessary, as i may have a ride, but just in
case.  thanx...

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 16:51:52 1992
From: coganman@soda.berkeley.edu (Andrei Cogan)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:36:17 -0800
Subject: Stern Grove

        If someone gets the chance, DO check that place out -- it's in a
convenient area, there's plenty of parking around it, and it's specially
designed to keep the noise out. Besides, it's an absolutely gorgeous place
to see -- very tranquil, highly peaceful, and VERY VERY PRIVATE -- i.e. no
neighbors to complain about the noise, and no one to disturb, really. The
only problem I can think of is if the police truly do not allow people
there overnight or something -- otherwise, it would be quite an ideal
place.

        -Andrei

-- 
   Andrei Cogan (coganman@soda.berkeley.edu)   |||    When in doubt, panic.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you think it will take,       |
|   even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                "Be kind to your brain cells, I say" - Joe B.                |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 16:56:11 1992
From: Pete Reiter <megatest!plethorax!preiter@sun.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:03:30 PST
Subject: Vortex

Yes, the rave experience is very subjective. It is possible to have a
great time at a lousy rave and a bad time at a great rave. Especially
when you take into account the various substances being used. One 
of the things that's always fascinated me is how people can have such
vastly different experiences given the same environment.

When I was at Vortex at 12:30 it looked awful. Not many people there,
very few dancing and a high percentage of people with beer in their
hands. When I went back at 7:00 a.m. on the way to my car, it was
a totally different scene. Lot's of people dancing and those who weren't
look exhausted. So apparently it got much better at some time during
the night.

					Pete

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 17:04:18 1992
From: susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:51:44 -0800
Subject: FDA, to cynthia


cynthia@soda wrote:

from my friends' experiences, very true till you've
taken it routinely, I've watched the psychological
evolution of a few druggie friends and it gets you
after you've done it enough

How did it "get them"?

susie

susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 17:42:21 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 16 Nov 1992 17:20:30 -0700
Subject: RE: testing balms

>Anyway, the craziest feeling experience I had ever had was a Devotion, the 
>last good Sharon rave I went to...some guy was walking around with this 
>basketball sized metal ball, with two stalks coming out of it.


I was at the Sharon Rave it was Great.  I also went to Feel-X the following
week and met the same guy with the Metal ball and tryed it.  The greatest
sensation I had was when my girlfriend and I held the ball together and Kissed.
 it was truly unique and different, where the eletrical connection was made
through our mouths.


             XXXXXXX
            X       X
           X         X 
          X    NUT    X
           X         X
            X       X
             XXXXXXX


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 20:00:43 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:56:27 PST
Subject: ???

>Well, I *like* Ned's Atomic Dustbin.  Don't slag 'em for the rotten
>interview, that is par for Kendall's Kourse.  If anything, the interview

Well, than you may be glad to know they have a new "rave song" 
or remix according to my friend Lisa (who knows them).  I don't know
what it's called or if it's out yet, nor do I care (not a flame, 
just the truth).

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 22:56:01 1992
From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:44:56 -0800
Subject: Handout Project RFA

I'm working on a wee project to put together some freeware handouts for
raves.  It all started a few months ago when I thought of doing a set of
party invitations on floppies.  There was a small card attached to the
floppy with the vital stats, and a shareware animation of zooming through
the Mandelbrot and into a series of frames announcing the party.  Fun idea,
and very well received.
     Anyway, I'm working on a simple animation along the same lines for
SFRAVES, and wanted to solicit opinions and perhaps some assistance.  The
solicitation for advice (RFA) is: is this OK with you all?
     If the opinion runs in the "OK" direction, I'd also like to solicit
some assistance.  I have the equipment and 'ware to do the DOS disks,  I'd
also like to do the thing for Macs and Un*x.  Since I don't have access to
these OSs currently, if one (or more!) could lend a hand, some ideas, some
technical assistance, and some CPU cycles, we could do this proper.
     Thanks in advance!

BryceR, the BryceMan
Temporary Autonomous Zone 23

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 00:13:29 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:28:33 -0800
Subject: the 'ol bard


	i know quite a few shakespearian raves, myself included.

rocky

ps:  any reviews of labyrinth?  i heard it flopped, which is a worry 
because my frineds and i are putting up a party in that same space
next month.  and we have been talking about a maze, too.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 00:26:41 1992
From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:58:43 -0800
Subject: Revu of _Zoo_Rave_1_

TITLE: _Zoo_Rave_1_
LABEL: Zoo Entertainment, BMG Music
Number: 72445-11030-2
Medium: Full Size CD
Category: Techno CD Sampler
Comments: "High Cycle Compilation"

CONTENTS REVIEW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Track: 1
Artist: Smashing Atoms
Title: Cannibal 44
Length: 5'03"
Category: Hardcore, Gothic

Zombie chipmunks unite! My roommate says: "I like it...it's kind of grungy."
Vincent Price-y vocals: "they can consume their victims...Her private hell is
only beginning."  Creepy!

RATING: three zombies in full length black leather coats

Track: 2
Artist: Bleu
Title: Burn It
Length: 2'35"
Category: Hardcore

This way too short, high tempo coming-soon-to-a-rave-near-you dance hall hit 
is full of sirens, full scale (and beyond) arpeggios, whistles, and 10,000
watts of pulsing power.

RATING: three whistles, two sirens, one cop car

Track: 3
Artist: Xenon
Title: Hellfire
Length: 5'46"
Category: Gothic

Sampling an oldie "I am the god of hellfire" is the only hook this tune has.  
Too slow for my taste.  Trance-y.

RATING: One low impact aerobics class in Bremen

Track: 4
Artist: AAR
Title: Ragamuffin Techno
Length: 5'47"
Category: Ragamuffin, nach

Uptempo, "unggh" samples of someone other than James Brown (they finally broke 
through!) start and fill this bright starburst track.  Good, solid, danceable
style--highly recommended if you've never picked out a ragamuffin hit on the
floor.  Bitchin break at 2'40" for all you DJ's:  ". . . . . In case you'd 
like to hear more. . . . "

RATING: three pairs baggies and an LED necklace

Track: 5
Artist: Voyager
Title: Rhythm Dream
Length: 6'41"
Category: Hardcore/Trance

Good layered vocals, strong kick beat.  THE best male screams I've ever heard
on a recording.

RATING: broken glass after a rain on 5th Street at Mission

Track: 6
Artist: AAR
Title: Rasta Rave
Length: 5'30"
Category: Rasta, Dub, Ragamuffin

Good stuff for all fans of speedy vocals.

RATING:  one mango, one she-come, small spliff

Track: 7
Artist: Pood, Bhud, and Phlug
Title: Duelling Techno
Length: 5'51"
Category: Hardcore

This one starts out with the classic melody line from _Deliverance_ "Duelling
Banjos" done up by heavily programmed synths--for 1'25".  This is a good cover
but not something THR can dance to.  The break "Let's get it" signals a lurch
into a high BPM synth duel that is way wicked.  As a dance tune, this is hot
stuff.  However, we move on to some very righteous samples from the movie--
catch the context if you can!  Truly twisted, queer stuff.  You will go away
from this one saying "Squeal!"  Destined to be a late night classic.

RATING: a loud piggy squeal of delight

Track: 8
Artist: Assembly Line
Title: Prototype
Length: 4'57"
Category: Hard Dancehall

This is good dance tune, with all the requisite sirens and "C'm on" samples.
Good organ work.

RATING: one foggy interlude (cough!), three blue bubblegum lights

Track: 9
Artist: Bleu
Title: Wicked
Length: 4'37"
Category: trance

Soon to be the theme at Wicked, no doubt.  "Well wicked, yeah!"

RATING: two bleeps and a chirp

Track: 10
Artist: Beat Pulse Mecca
Title: Murder
Length: 5'30"
Category: Hardcore

Best use of pitch control. Creepy samples: "You are now a murderer, little
Alex!" Soon to be a dancehall classic.  Tempo building break at 2'27". Scarey
post-modern angst.  Best use of vocal samples.  "Allez!"

Rating: three bleeps and a MAC-10
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Listen in peace and motion
the BryceMan

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 09:36:45 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 09:26:03 PST
Subject: Re:  Handout Project RFA

your idea for cybernetic invites is killer, but i doubt it
will be implementable on UNIX systems.  it's just too much
of a pain.

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 11:27:24 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 07:04:48 PST
Subject: Re:  Handout Project RFA


I say GO FOR IT!
You might want to turn this into an SFRAVES "MetaDocument" i.e. we can get
the text from The Imaginal Rave pamphlet and combine it all. Maybe even
add Lord Nose's HyperCard stack. (We need to ask him) Jason of Imaginal
Rave has already given me permission to use IR.

How do we distribute them? At raves or maybe we sholud wait and give them
out  at Connection II?

From geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org Tue Nov 17 11:42:56 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 11:14:41 PST
Subject: SJ Bar  is cool

For all of you South Bay types here's your chance to see Garth
on the cheap, ($3) this place is SMALL but infinitely koool.



			2
	       B there|B


 -------------------------Brian, please put in weeklies ---------------------

        FUNKY MAMA's bring you
        NOTHING TO FANCY
        Thursdays 9 - 2 
        @ the Joint with 
        SHON. SPUN. GARTH 
        21 no joke $3  no getting over
        641 Stockton Ave. SJ
        directions (408)988-1144
        Limited Capacity so get there early
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From mark@ganymede.apple.com Tue Nov 17 12:30:28 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 12:29:10 PST
Subject: Re:  SJ Bar  is cool

yes, i posted about this a couple of timez...641 club (as it is 
affectionately known :) is quite cool.  not a lot of area to chill,
but very alternative setting.  WHEN DID _GARTH_ START SPINNING AT 641???
this is a verrrrrry koool development.

i guess from now on i'll be blurry-eyed at work on fridays (hee hee)...

[[ scott (NUT) we can't miss this one!!   || at least starting AFTER
this thurs. (MBM) ]]  !!

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 12:30:28 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 10:55:12 PST
Subject: that electric ball thingy


> I also went to Feel-X the following week and met the same guy with the
> Metal ball and tryed it.  The greatest sensation I had was when my
> girlfriend and I held the ball together and Kissed.  it was truly
> unique and different, where the eletrical connection was made through
> our mouths.

The ball is called a Tactile Pod.  I know the inventor, and he sells them
for $50 or so (I think).  If anyone is interested in getting one, send
me your name and phone number and I'll have him call you.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 13:32:48 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 13:26:51 PST
Subject: MBM/Orbital/Ultramarine status


The guy at the Bridge Club says that Meat Beat Manifesto
are in the country.  The response has been heavy but he
doesn't know if it will sell out.   Show should start at
around 8:30, i.e. this is a concert, not a rave event.
Advance tickets are available for $13 at Reckless and 
Recycled Records on Haight St.  Does anyone know what 
time these stores are open till?

leg of eel

From sandraf@ingres.com Tue Nov 17 13:49:58 1992
From: sandraf@ingres.com (Sandra Farkas)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 13:47:58 PDT
Subject: Re: MBM/Orbital/Ultramarine status

> The guy at the Bridge Club says that Meat Beat Manifesto
> are in the country.  The response has been heavy but he
> doesn't know if it will sell out.   Show should start at
> around 8:30, i.e. this is a concert, not a rave event.
> Advance tickets are available for $13 at Reckless and 
> Recycled Records on Haight St.  Does anyone know what 
> time these stores are open till?

I'm pretty sure they're both open until 10 on weeknights.  You can
always get their #s from information and call them.

Sandra

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 13:51:05 1992
From: faerie@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Dara Ruth Papo)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 13:38:29 -0800
Subject: labyrinth


labyrinth was OK... got better around 4, once all the non-ravers left..
it wasent that packed, tho neither was the whoopy ball, a tough one to 
have them right across the street!

the problem with labyrinth (IMHO) was the crowd..  people just didnt qutie
know what to expect..

the maze was a good idea, but it turned out to be just some pieces of
cardboard put up that people had spray painted on..  pretty flimsy and
unimpressive.. and not worth what it cost them to make it!

the space is really big but good, so i dont see you haveing any problems
rocky..


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 15:58:40 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Tue, 17 Nov 92 15:42:57 PST
Subject: deep house/ deep thoughts

if anyone has any spare time... i]ve been thinking lately about the
whole peace, love, good vibe thing people go on about while raving,
and i was just wondering what people actually mean by that. it]s
find to believe in it, that]s good, great, it helps - but what does
it mean to believe in it, what are people willing to do? what other
things do they believe in? how does peace, love, and the good vibe
inform how people deal with their daily lives? does it mean make the
extra effort to recycle, help out someone who is homeless, or is it
only a weekend accepted salutation of a fad sub-culture? the 60]s
might have claimed peace, love, etc... but i seem to remember
reading about the bay of pigs, korea, kampuchea (sp?), laos,
kennedy]s assasination, malcolm x]s assasination, segregation,
martin luther king]s assasination, etc... have things between races
really begun to work out, will raving assist? i thew a party last
weekend with harry who? and the pirate DJs, the pirates spin the
best hip-hop in the bay area, and harry spins some of the best
tribal i]ve ever bobbed my head too. when we switched to hip-hop,
many white ravers came up to me and said they didn]t like hip-hop
and wanted more rave. when harry was spinning, many    black people
i knew came up to me and said i thought this was going to be
hip-hop.
granted, no one race owns hip-hop, or rave - but the 60]s seem to
have fallen apart, in part because people didn]t know how to have
fun together. there was the largely white woodstock, vs. teh soul
and motown clubs and that whole big chill cross participation was
dreamed up by hollywood in the 80]s.

i worry the whole rave thing is like a language stuck on to itself,
and not making the effort to say hey the musics wonderful, the
feelings great, let]s not rely on the weekend wharehouses and
sensory modification to provide it, lets go out make the rave
feeling of friendship apply to abortion clinic defense, or cleaning
up neighborhoods

or maybe i]m missing a lot.

anyway, just a few thoughts, don]t really know what to make of them
either.
stay in it
pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 16:05:22 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 16:50:43 MST
Subject: Rock and Roll is Dead

In a recent issue of Mambo 2000, they had an interview with some
acid-house-head in England.  He was wearing a T-Shirt that said in large
"Frankie" style lettering, "Rock and Roll is Dead".  Has anyone seen these
shirts?  I've been calling around town and the only people who will make me
one will iron on the letters.  Ugh.  I want a silk screen.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 16:19:32 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 16:06:33 -0800
Subject: Re:  Handout Project RFA

Yeah, we can include a lot of the files from the FTP site - if they are
just straight text files any computer can read them.  I think if we included
everything but the archives it would take up about 3 megs....

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 16:20:13 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 16:12:21 PST
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts


Hmmmm....

	I think part of the reason raves are becoming
so huge (and I know the reason they appeal to me) is
because young people are becoming so disillusioned and
hopeless with this society.  This is exactly _because_
of that artificial construct known as the Sixties.
All of that idealism, and where did it lead?  Nowhere...
to the nauseating hypocrisy of those Big Chill assholes.
I just saw _Apocalypse Now_ on the big screen again, 
pardon me for the cynicism.
	But anyway...people rave, because, at bottom,
what else is there to do?  The forces of Capitalism
and Collaboration look like they're going to rule the
world forever, why not dance?  LIVE YOUR LIFE WITHOUT
DEAD TIME, INDULGE UNTRAMMELED DESIRE.  There's no way
to save the world...do you really think Bill M.F. Clinton
is going to save the fucking world with the death penalty
and the drug war?!
	Apathy is not the same thing as withdrawing in
disgust.
	None of this means that I think that the whole 
"peace and love" thing with raves is too naive...in fact
it's one of my favorite things about raves.  It seems
so much more genuine and honest, at its best that is,
than the Sixties because it comes from feeling good about
dancing and music, which are two of the most important 
things in life.  A rave is not an ideology, its an actual,
tangible place where 200-20,000 people can have fun
together with very loud music.  Rave is a culture; it 
affects the way me and all of you on this list and a lot
of other people live our lives.  As a culture, it probably
won't change the world in a direct way; Bill Clinton
probably won't pay attention any more than he has to hip-
hop (i.e., Sistah Souljah).  But it may change the world
in a _secret_ way, like punk rock or dada did.  (Those of 
you who've read _Lipstick Traces_ by Greil Marcus know 
what I'm talking about, those of you who haven't, do it.)
In the end, when all of the marble monuments and bridges
are dust, and Roger Smith and Bill Clinton have no more
power than King Nebudchadnezzer does now, there will
_still_ be people banging on drums...
	And regarding some ravers' attitude toward hip-hop...
I've spent so much of the last year fighting hip-hoppers'
prejudice against raves and techno, and even succeeding
somewhat, that it sickens me that I have to do the opposite.
I had always thought that ravers were naturally open-minded
and definitely not racist.  Beyond that, I thought
EVERYONE liked Cypress Hill!  :) (at least!)  But I guess
 not.  
(And if you think I'm calling you racist because you say
you like loud dance music and you don't like hip-hop,
well, you thought it, not me.)
	Just remember, hip-hop is banging on drums, too.
They come from the same place, the same bass.

	Jim  :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 16:26:48 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 16:10:43 PST
Subject: Back in th' grooove

Folx

Back again
Thanx Geoff for the Sanozay news--I hope to
go this Thursday (The interview in RHTTHMOS
as well as his good work especially encouraged
me to experience more Garth!) And if there are
any unanswered messages (perhaps in the same
category as answered prayers--best left alone!)
perhaps let me know, y'all.
World's second wisest raver
Will

From feinstei@sonoma.edu Tue Nov 17 19:05:35 1992
From: feinstei@sonoma.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:03:38 -0800
Subject: origins of messages?

howdy,

messages from sfraves are listed as being from "sfraves-request@medisg.stanford
.edu" to "sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu" ... but nowhere do i see the name of the
person who sent the message unless it's in their .sig which most people on the
list don't seem to use. . . is my mailer the problem or is it something else?

josh
feinstei@sonoma.edu

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 19:16:52 1992
From: John Hammond <jhammond@mv.us.adobe.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:18:08 -0800
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts

from my perspective, and that's a perspective of being a part of the  
60's Haight experience and, to a lesser extent, a part of the rave  
"culture" much of the words you wrote could have been written in  
1967, minus the timely specifics. There were many subcultures back  
then even though it may seem that there was only one large movement  
of people. There was a large subculture of people doing and saying  
what's being done and said now at raves. The only difference besides  
the music and clothes that I can see is back then it had never been  
done before and back then peoples lives depended on it in a very  
direct way. In someway everyone was touched very directly by Vietnam.  
Either by fear of what might happen to you or to your friends or  
people in your family. Most everyone new someone who had died or come  
back with pieces missing, either pieces of there mind or thier body.  
To me people putting thier lives on the line for themselves an the  
people they care about is pretty "genuine and honest". Somehow  
"withdrawing in disgust" seems a much more viable alternative when  
you don't have to worry about your government picking you up and  
shipping you off to fight in some stupid war half way around the  
world. At the time the consequences seemed more immediate than they  
do now. In many ways you needed to be idealistic, you needed to think  
you could change the world and fast because your life might depend on  
it or your friends life might depend on it. That may be a hard  
perspective to empathize with now but it was genuine then.

I guess my real point is this it was a hard time, people and thier  
ideals were stomped on pretty brutally. Friends died or were  
permanently maimed, we were trying things that hadn't really been  
tried before. Alot of people couldn't take it and sold out but not  
all. Maybe what we went through will make it easier the next time  
around.

The feeling I get at a rave today is the same feeling I had at  
parties in Golden Gate Park and I like it.

Keep that open-mind, an open-mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Oh and this is definitely not a flame just my 2 cents worth.

John

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 19:21:43 1992
From: avanderw@us.oracle.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:14:09 PST
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts


TAXI here,

Pat Dote writes,
>if anyone has any spare time... i]ve been thinking lately about the
>whole peace, love, good vibe thing people go on about while raving,
>and i was just wondering what people actually mean by that. it]s
>find to believe in it, that]s good, great, it helps - but what does
>it mean to believe in it, what are people willing to do? what other
>things do they believe in? how does peace, love, and the good vibe
> blah, blah, blah

In my view of things, a part of what raving allows people to realize 
when they "get it" is that we are living in an artificial world with zillions 
of man-made rules which I will attempt to enumerate below.
    Man-made rules #1 thru #1 million: social protocol
There's what I call social protocol, where you can't do certain things in 
public because it's not 'acceptable behavior'.  For example, you can't randomly
go up to a stranger on the street and hug him\her.  (You could do that at a 
rave with no repercussions until a while back.)  There's tons of rules
in this umbrella I call 'social protocol'.  
    Man-made rules #1 million thru #2 million: societal values
What I call societal values such as concepts of what society considers 
important: eg. getting good grades, holding a good job, making $$$, 
success (whatever that means?), good looks, etc. etc.  I even hold the concept 
of ideal beauty in this category.  I believe that the concept of ideal beauty 
in this country is defined by the advertising execs of cosmetics companies, 
of clothing companies, of workout places, etc., not to  mention  the media, 
and Hollywood casting agents, modeling agencies' employees.  Let's just say, 
for argument sake that there are 100,000 people in the US directly involved 
through their jobs in judging what is great-looking and what isn't.  That means
that those 100,000 people define the standards of ideal beauty for the rest of
the 250 million people in this country who unconsciously soak up those ideals
via TV, movies, and advertisements.  It's gotten to the point where some women
are afraid to go outside without makeup because they are afraid that they don't
measure up to the cosmetic's company's artificial standards of beauty: the 
message is loud and clear - if you don't look like their very rare 
'spokesmodel' they've chosen, you should wear makeup to look more like that 
person so we can sell plenty of our products.
    Man-made rules #2 million thru #3 million: organized religion
Let's just say that America's preoccupation with sex, and the fact that it's 
considered a sin to do it from a religious standpoint are prime examples here.
America has adopted tons and tons of rules by which people live by because of
what the church says is, 'good' or 'bad' or 'wrong' or 'right'.  Is it really
'wrong' to go to school completely naked?  Says who?  Is it wrong to be gay?
Say who?  Is it wrong for women to be part of the organized religion's power
structure?  Says who?  Organized religion rules through shame and shame is a 
horrible and useless emotion in my humble opinion.
    Man-made rules #3 million thru #4 million: the legal system
The city, county, state, and federal governments have written up so many laws 
that I feel like it's technically illegal to do almost anything.  Somehow many
people seem to obey them like robots but often for good reasons if you want
your freedom.  I believe the legal system is a form of extortion:  do this, 
don't do that or else we take your freedom away by putting you behind bars.
    Man-made rules #4 million thru #5 million: your upbringing
As you were growing up your parents no doubt impressed upon you their standards
of what THEY considered good and bad.  They also probably impressed upon you
what to strive for.  I'm not saying that this is good nor bad, but many people
grow up not realizing that many of their values were impressed upon them by
their parents while they were youngsters.
    Man-made rules #5 million thru #6 million: advertising from firms
There are many values that are being impressed upon viewers of TV thru 
commercials.  Thus, it's amazing that advertising execs (again) have a hand in
programming you.  For example, is underarm odor REALLY such a crime?  Is having
a wet spot on your shirt under each armpit really soooo gross?  Is having
morning breath when you feel like your teeth are wearing sweaters really so 
gross to others? or have the advertisers brainwashed you in believing that?
When women have an 'accident' with an unexpected period, is that TRUELY 
disgusting or have advertisers just programmed you that way so they could sell
more of their products to people in whom they have instilled fear. 

Now that I've covered some of the zillions of man-made rules most of us live 
by almost every second of every day, once you've realized this you are free to
do with it whatever you want.  Often people become more accepting of others and
their arises a "good vibe" as Pat Dote called it.  Pat Dote wrote about 
working towards world peace etc.  but I think that 
raving, and/or "the good vibe" is not connected to any one goal.  I believe 
each individual should be free to do with 'their freedom' whatever they want, 
whether that means working towards world peace, cleaning the environment, or 
just ironing your clothing, or playing video games.  In my knowledge of the
scheme of things, there is nothing that is more noble than anything else, 
though you are free to think that some things are more noble than others, I
think that should be left up to the individual.  

Getting philosophical again,

- TAXI

I was trying to keep this short but it's tough.  And this is just a small
part of what people realize when they "get it" in my opinion.  Wait until you
find out or I tell you what the rest is about....... I can't wait until I find
out either.....

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 20:35:25 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:00:57 -0800
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts


My feelings exactly!  A few of us are thinking of having some sort of Unity
type get-together.  We were thinking of maybe having it in Delores Park and
Inviting some great mello hip-hop DJ's someone like Carlos who can spin that
great Techno Salsa and maybe a really great Tribal/Rave DJ like Jeno or Garth.
It would maybe be like a benifit for some organization in the Mission and
we would try to bring Homeboys Vatos and Ravers together for a mellow party.
I think if we did it right with lots of community involvement and 
permission from the locals It could be a success.  There would be NO ALCOHOL
and people could maybe cook out or something.  Sorta Like the GG park but
with some flava`


				geoffw

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 20:35:26 1992
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:26:13 -0800
Subject: Hipis/Ravers


Pat Dote's deep house/deep thoughts brought up some valid points...
that a culture has to act on it's beliefs for real value to occur.
But he misses the boat <totally> about the 60s.  There is no way 
for a young twentysomething of today to get the 60s from the media
portrayal of it.  In fact, the leading edge people of the 60s felt
the same way about the portrayal of the scene by the media while it
was happening.

The important point is this:  the 60s were just a vibrant, dance & 
drum filled <ecstasies> time as the raves, though the trends & tech
were different.  But there was also plenty of commitment to over-
turning the existing social values.  There were significant lifestyle
changes happening then.  And it wasn't that they had never been tried
before, only that they were being tried on a mass scale for the first
time.  Media portrayed only the surface, and never touched the profound
sharing, commitment, and willingness to push the edge of~the envelope
that was happening then at least as strongly as now.  In fact, though
i love the growing scene, i find it is only the beginning, and has 
yet to reach the critical mass of the 60s that did have far reaching
effects.

There was no environmentalism on a serious mass scale until the hipis
went back to the land.  There was no influx of tribal ideas until the
hipis tried social experiment.  Most important, there was no expansion
of understanding the mind, and the individual's place in creation 
without the devoted psychedelic experimentation of the few at the 
leading edge of the bell curve.  The peacefulness of X only hints at
]the depth of vision possible under stronger psychedelics. (and
heavier doses in a proper <set & setting> (environment).

no need to put down the past, cuz you weren't there, and don't really
have a clue about what went down.  just realize you would have a lot
farther to push if we hadn't made those profound changes.  in fact, since
evolution demands pushing the borders, you could probably go farther b
by concentrating on the tasks ahead.  Only when you're old enough to
slow down will you realize the gratitude all pioneers have towards 
those who went before.

Final thought:  seeing it all come around again is joyous, envigorating,
and a blast for this refugee from the 60s.

PS:  wait!  its true!  young ravers today really have no idea about
what the 60s were really about.  but the next time you enjoy X, 
remember some of us were chased by helicopters, surveyed by nite
scopes, pulled from bed by automatic weapons in our faces, and thrown
into solitary confinement because we were committed to the rights of
everyone to alter their own consciousness in any manner they choose.

And we lived a life that shouted those precepts.

Peace,
Alpha-10

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 23:25:04 1992
From: Susan Kameny <SK2479A@american.edu>
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 92 02:14:51 EST
Subject:      No subject

Gosh do i dare propose the idea of a raver manifesto to inform and educat
e others about raving...some of the other great underground movements have done
 it...(IMHO) it should be a statement explaining the philosophy behine unity, c
onnection, trance, respect etc...i am not a good writer but maybe this could be
 a list wide project...what do you think...especially pat dote...please don't f
lame it was just an idea i am tossing out for others to toy with...partyon...su
sie

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 00:15:43 1992
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:04:32 -0800
Subject: the raver manifesto


Actually I think something like a Rave Info handout would be
a very good thing, since unlike the folks on the sfraves
list most of the people out there have no written verbal
connection at all what's going on.  They just know what
happened at Cool World and Toon Town.  

I keep thinking about working on one sometime.  I expect it
would be a lot harder to do right than you might realize,
because the temptation is to assume that whatever you're
into is what raves are "really" about.  

The trick would be both to be able to step back and explain
a range of different opinions ("Is raving political?", "Is X
the thing or just one thing?"), but at the same time to be
passionate about it, to get across why it's something to be
enthusiastic about.  


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 00:28:40 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:21:43 -0800
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts

	i think you have some great points, pat.  some of what
	i see in the rave world is just hipocracy.  we talk about
	changing the world, but after the castroween party
	market street was just about *covered* in those
	round cool world flyers.

	what needs to happen is a broadening of the rave definition,
	or a new definition all together.  /imaginal rave/ was
	talking about rave being the mindset, the euphoria and
	the love... and that you don't even need -techno-, it was
	just a step for many people to experience what we call rave.
	whatever it is, you know the feeling.  also, when i look into
	a massive wherehouse crowd or a small full moon massive
	group i just wonder what could be acomplished in arenas
	like politics by these people... how much power we really have
	tyhat we may be overlooking.

	the /icon/ event on 20 december will bring together a larger
	audience of the appropriate mindset, and hopefully many that
	we can affect with our efforts.  we are offering free 
	convention space to non-profits (progressive ones, not
	the church or something like that).  it's like at a 
	consolidated show... theyu d do the open mic at the end,
	and people tell them that they rule because they
	let their audiences talk  back to them.  they always answer
	with "you should demand that *all* the bands you see
	do this!"

	all that power in all those kids dancing...  maybe tha
	right winger's ala /footloose/ are right to fear dancing,
	for someday it may just make people see their lies.

	and this update:  /iconoclast/ has officially booked 
	shredder.  they are pretty excited to do the show.

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 03:48:41 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Wed, 18 Nov 92 03:39:39 PST
Subject: manifestos and such

REPLY TO 11/17/92 23:22 FROM SK2479A@american.edu "Susan Kameny": No subject

susan, gee i thought you were an ne raver, but your post appears to
be posted to sfraves so i]ll reply to you and to sfraves. i think
the operative should be: rave manifestos, as opposed to any one
manifesto, and they need not be written, and they should be a group
project, but not necessarily collaborative - i think someone should
declare themselves or be pointed rave manifesto collecter, and they
could sort of sew the patchwork together with others help as
infomation starts coming in. i]m assuming you wanted me to reply
because of my ravezine posting. i hoping to have one ready by winter
break. i think raves on the west coast have built up all this
energy, but not necessarily energy that]s going any place. when i
rave i always think i]m totally awake - and i rave straight - but
then i realize i probably don]t know how to do anything else but
rave with that energy. it would be nice to know i could sit down, or
whatever, and starting writing social strategy, or poetry, or maybe
run outside on some drug and clean the streets because that]s the
only time i]d convince myself i was enjoying it, etc... i deplore
organization, you should see my room. but i like making statements,
i like exploring with a record, i like trying to shift energy into
action, so yeah - rave manifestos, start sending them in.
stay in it
pat

To:  SK2479A@american.edu
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 06:17:20 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 0:45:45 PST
Subject: Unity = The Time Has Come!

The Unity idea  (geoffw's reference to
Dolores Park w/mello hip-hop DJ's someone
like Carlos who can spin that great Techno Salsa           
and maybe a really great Tribal/Rave DJ like
Jeno or Garth maybe being a benefit for some
organization in the Mission bringing Homies
Vatos and Ravers together for a mellow party)
is absoulotely stunning!  This whole deep house/
deep thoughts subject has brought out some of the
finest communications on sfraves yet (and because
of netcom/cruzio problems I probably missed
some)!
Speakin of peace ravefully!
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 04:08:50 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Wed, 18 Nov 92 03:53:25 PST
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts

REPLY TO 11/17/92 18:02 FROM thyland@us.oracle.com "Tim Hyland": Re: deep
house/ deep thoughts

not liking a type of music isn]t racist. not respecting it can be.
complaining when you]re getting huge talent at a free party is just
rude, and i think in my party]s case racist because people weren]t
willing to get over themselves to just stick it out and have fun,
and maybe learn a few things - i don]t think it]s conscience racism,
but sort of society taught me to be closed minded racism, which
isn]
any better, and could be worse. not playing a certaine type of music
can have racist implications and effects when you are involved in
management of events, and or things of that nature.

well, now that i think about it. maybe not racist that people
weren]t willing to deal. i think most people (the 200 or so that
stayed from 11 to 4) dealt with it and were just into either gauking
at the experience, or experiencing the experience - however i
believe choosing to slam on a type of music does draw racial
borders. and since i find most music has a few songs i like, not
making an effort to respect a type of music is narrow. not listening
to it 24/7 is not.

anyway, i should stop posting at 4:00am because i don]t make any
sense.
pat

To:  thyland@us.oracle.com
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 06:46:08 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 6:26:16 PST
Subject: Re: Jason's The Imaginal Rave

Re Rave Manifesto--

Susan Kameny asks about a rave manifesto:
I echo others who recommend starting with
Jason's The Imaginal Rave (Tribal Donut,
41 Sutter Street, Box 1348, San Francisco,
CA 94104, $2.00 or 4 International Reply
Coupons).  Any other suggestions?  Maybe
a compendium of the excellent commentary
about raves that has gone on in this sfraves
forum the past year is fertile research 
ground, too!
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 06:50:37 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 06:32:45 PST
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts

Well I grew  up to Hip-Hop and still love it.
I even listen to Ice Cube although I don't agree with or
follow everything that he says or promotes.  I also
listen to NWA and some of the even more (Explicit Lyrics
style rappers) I also listen to dead kennedys and even own
a Guns n' Roses album.  I play and listen to and like
all of this stuff, BUT I wouldn't want to hear it at a rave.
For me raving is about  trancending all of that.  Yes I would
fight to the last for Ice Cube's right too make Black Korea but
I would tell him to his face that it is a racist song and he 
is capable of much  more than that bullshit.

And I would like to hear more Hip-HOUSE at raves.
I think it would fit in best in the 10-12 slot or the wind down
last hour.  In fact hip-hop might be a great way to prepare ravers
for the "real world" that  is still with them in the morning when
"A & E has  gone off the air" and  it business as usual.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 08:37:27 1992
From: kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com (Kevin Goldsmith)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:27:26 -0800
Subject: Rave manifesto, movement talk

No one can write a "rave manifesto."  the people on this list cannot define the
beliefs of all people who go to raves.  the people on this list do not make a
cross section of rave culture.  rave culture is constantly changing, just like
all the youth cultures before it.  it is becomming commercialized, and absorbed
into society as a whole, just as did all the "movements" before it.  I don't
want to down you all, or rain on your parades, but this is a fact of modern
society.  Rave culture will become just as diluted an meaningless as the hippy
"movement," the punk "movement" and all the "movements" since.  Rave culture,
especially AMERICAN rave culture, will not change the world, or even a small
part of it.  That is what happens to modern counter culture, everyone wants to
create a massive change in the infrastucture of society, however you need a lot
of people involved to create that sort of change, and as more people join
together, the messages get more and more diluted.  There is no unified voice to
rave culture, and there are no rules.  By creating a manifesto, you seek to
create some sort of structure, but this goes against the grain.  Why not just
enjoy what ravers have created for themselves so far, and continue to be
involved so that there is still something left after the national, corporate
"rave hysteria" has died down.

	Just adding my $.02 from a completely non-raver perspective,

		Kevin





From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 09:13:04 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 09:04:14 PST
Subject: Re: Rave manifesto, movement talk


Pat Dote:

>I had always thought that ravers were naturally open-minded

Being openminded doesn't mean you have to *like* everything.

>	Just remember, hip-hop is banging on drums, too.
>They come from the same place, the same bass.

The same could be said for military marching bands.  The total
acceptance of diversity introduces an interesting paradox: Can
we accept and integrate perspectives that reject the acceptance
of diversity?  At an abstract level of metareasoning, we can "know"
that all things are interconnected and somehow a part of the
same formula, that Truth is ultimately a contradiction and opposites
are equal, boundaries artificial.  But because we don't actually
live at this "level" of meaningless oblivion, we are eventually
forced to make choices, definitions, understandings of who we are,
where we want to be, and what we like.  Raving sometimes offers
paths in and out of this, and the discovery that we can redefine
ourselves almost at will should open us to many things.  But to be
truly openminded, we have to be open to various forms of closemindedness.
The circle never ends.  Isn't this fun?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 09:50:19 1992
From: Frederick.Wolf@um.cc.umich.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:43:14 EST
Subject: re:  Rave manifesto, movement talk

the best way to kill a scene is to try to define it. Enjoy
the effervescence!
 
-
fred                      fwolf@um.cc.umich.edu
-

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 10:41:22 1992
From: paul@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Paul T.)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:29:56 PST
Subject: Re: manifestos and such

	Shamanarchy in the U.K. as posted by Geoff White is a kind
of manifesto.  This stuff is also printed on an alblum but Mighty
Ming or something else might make a better anthem.

--Paul T.

-- 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 11:19:08 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 11:06:08 PST
Subject: re:  Rave manifesto, movement talk

Were I Frederick.Wolf@um.cc.umich.edu, I might have said this:
> 
> the best way to kill a scene is to try to define it. Enjoy
> the effervescence!
>  

This is an important point.  People in general have a tendency to like
to define things... It helps us to understand them and relate them to
our environment.  Unfortunantly definitions become vague and damaging
when what you are trying to define is based largely on the opinions of
many individuals... stereotyping often results and stagnation
typically isn't far behind.  A good example of this phenomenon can be
found by looking at USENET news... the newsgroups are basically just
another means of communication and interaction between people and
often can exhibit traits of other more conventional social groupings.
As a specific example, two of the groups I regularly read,
alt.music.alternative and rec.music.industrial, have over a period of
time degenerated into a series of pointless arguments like "band 'xxx'
is/isn't industrial".  Very little useful or entertaining information
is to be found there anymore.  Note that the source of the arguments
has very little to do with the musical traits of the bands in
question, since any descriptive term is a subjective fiction made up
to relate the band's music to our own experiences, but rather a
difference in the objective opinions of the individual listeners.  The
effort to create a sweeping definition in this case has totally failed
and in the end damaged the forum which the description was trying to
define.
	I am certain that my opinions and reason for raving are
different than many ravers.  I am sure this is true for all of us.
We all share a similar interest but our reasons and motivations, while
most likely somewhat coherent, aren't exactly the same.  For this
reason, a 'rave manifesto' may not be such a good idea.  Hedonistic
enjoyment of the experience itself may be most prudent at this
juncture :)



Remember, the scene is still growing. 


-Howard "or some other old fart" :)


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						howard@netcom.com
		         Its in my brain now
_________/\______/\_____/\___/\__/\_/\/\/\/\................................


From ccat@netcom.com Wed Nov 18 13:59:05 1992
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:50:25 -0800
Subject: Liquid oil projections..

 A few people have asked me to repost my blurb on liqid oil projections..
Here it is..
How to produce Liquid Oil projections..
______________________________________
A widely available overhead projector may be used to project kinetic
liquid projections.. :ambient effect..
Use a overhead projector with bottom lighting,preferably with a quartz-halogen
lamp.Put a dimmer on the main power,and if you can,add a supplemetal fan to
insure
adequate ventilation.Mask off the edges of the stage,place the dishes (old
glass clockfaces) on top (a small one in a larger one) and add the water
and oil based dyes,usually just to the space between the two dishes.
For oil dye,I use Keystone anilyne dyes, and for water,I use photo retouching
colors..91% alcohol can be added to the water solutions to enable the water
based liquids to become darker as they evaporate.For clear oil,of course
clear mineral oil.With the colors,you'll learn less is more.
Then you're ready to go, turn up the dimmer slightly and focus.Mask off
the edges of the screen area,remembering to cover the edges of the
screen-area as much as possible...Are your dyes ready?
Then turn the overhead up and   BLOB-O-RAMA!!!...
Remember..easy does it...
Good luck!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 14:04:12 1992
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992   13:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts

In-Reply-To: avanderw@us.oracle.com -- 11/17/92 19:18

hi taxi, folx!
i really liked the list taxi started ti ennumerate! i  am not going to
continue it. i just want to point out that i feel one of the benefits
of  raves is that is creates a 'safe' space where
1. we can 'see' these rules
2. can start to change ourselves to be controlled less by these  rules
3. connect with others doing the same thing.
that is why this fake division between ravers and hip-hopsters creates
a psychic wall in the rave which can impede 1-3 above. it breaks the
'safe' space  up.
keep the vibe and let's help it grow bigger, let's help it spread.
take care/shalom/salaam/rave on
ovid

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 14:21:57 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:44:21 PST
Subject: re: Rave manifesto, movement talk

REPLY TO 11/18/92 09:47 FROM Frederick.Wolf@um.cc.umich.edu: re: Rave
manifesto, movement talk

i agree wholeheartedly, the best way to kill is scene is to define
it it. however, others are trying to define our scene.... but that]s
another topic. i don]t think defining would help, i think
multiple-directioning would be fun. Kapische?
pat

To:  Frederick.Wolf@um.cc.umich.edu
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 14:22:48 1992
From: "Your friend, Mike {!)" <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:23 PDT
Subject: manifesting manifestos

I have been quiet for awhile, trying to see where the manifesto idea
is going, so now I will join in...
first off, I agree about defining. Let's not and take pride in saying we didn't.
We don't need to define it, really.  do we?  I think each and every one
person who goes to these things, has an awareness of what they are really
all about...we are each a manifestation of this cultural movement...we
are our own manifesto right here, right now, even as we talk about this subject.
We should enjoy the fluidity, the ambiguity of this phase, and look forward
to working on its growth.  The idea about the hip hop party is GGP is a 
great idea, a great manifestation of our local scene, which, as we know
is proably one of the best scenes in the nation...so it is up to us
to make sure we don't get locked down...we grow...


fantastic...

mi
ke

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 14:24:30 1992
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992   13:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts

In-Reply-To: Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu -- 11/17/92 15:53

hello folx!
pat brought up an interesting issue : is 'rave' muzak and hip-hop in
collision ? a recent URB issue mentioned that a similar split was
occuring   among their readership. i think music is music : no one
'owns' hip-hop or rave or tekno or industrial .also, people
can check out many different styles since i think each has its own
vibe. like sometimes i feel intense so i want tekno or industrial,
other times i feel mellower so i want reggae or trance. let's not
fall for the old trik of divide and conquer which the establishment
wants us to trip on.
take care/rave on/shalom/salaam alecum
ovid

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 14:24:57 1992
From: atomx@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Omar Manuel Liripio-Juarez)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:57:06 -0800
Subject: looking 4

Ron Frazer...of Artist For Humanity...

Can you help me get in touch with him?...

thanXXXX

...x

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 15:00:31 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:03:40 PST
Subject: re:  Rave manifesto, movement talk

> 
> the best way to kill a scene is to try to define it. Enjoy
> the effervescence!
>  
> -
> fred                      fwolf@um.cc.umich.edu
> -

no doubt...IMVHO, 'boundries' within a scene or culture should be unspoken...
when they get written down, they become dogma.

    THE TEN RAVEANDMENTS:

1)  Thou shalt drop one hit of E at 10, and other at 2,
    not to preceeded or exceeded unless thou mixes with
    A... 

<<  just a joke, not a flame  >> 

-mark.  "just droppin' a couple cents..."  d8) 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 15:08:36 1992
From: susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:58:35 -0800
Subject: deep house


TAXI writes:

 Organized religion rules through shame and shame is a
horrible and useless emotion in my humble opinion.

AMEN brother!

He also writes:

Now that I've covered some of the zillions of man-made rules most of us live
by almost every second of every day, once you've realized this you are free to
do with it whatever you want.

Unfortuneately, realizing the rules society impresses upon us does not
make a person free, in my opinion, in my personal experience.  I was
raised as a Catholic and even though I came to reject its teachings
as a teenager, some of their doctrines seeped into my subconscious and
weigh on me to this day, even though I know on a rational level that
these doctrines are wrong and limiting.  My point here is that it's
one thing to realize in a rational way that say, premartial sex is
NOT actually a bad thing and it's another thing to shrugg off this
chain and embrace sexual freedom.  

Another example:  I think a lot of women realize on a rational level
that there are very few women who look like supermodels, who are 5
feet 8 inches and weigh 115 pounds, and yet there are so many women
who have eating disorders, who strive to be thin.  It's hard to
escape the pressure to be thing and to look a certain way when
you are bombarded with that message every day by magazine ads, TV, etc.

But I do believe it is worth the effort to try to shake off pressure
to be only one way, and instead to discover your own inner and outer
beauty.  Dismissing society's standards also helps one to see unique
and individual beauty in others.  The open kindness of raving has
helped me do these things.

Just some of my thoughts.

Susie

susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 15:09:16 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:30:08 -0800
Subject: UltraOrbitalManifesto

You can pick up tickets at Reckless Records on Haight St. until 10pm
tonight, but only until 4pm tomorrow.

See everyone there!

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 15:41:14 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:33:15 -0800
Subject: re:  Rave manifesto, movement talk

Since these two flyers were brought up I guess they can be reposted (since
many of you don't have FTP access).  

But before I do that, my thoughts on the manifesto:

When the history books are written 20, 40, 100 years from now, will we be in
them?  What will society's view of "raves" be down the road if all they see
are newspaper articles about busted Sharons and rampant drug use?  I mean, on
one hand we shouldn't be worried about what history will think of us, but
on the other hand, this culture means a LOT to myself and to others, and to
see it go forgotten would be tragic.  I think THAT should be the motivation
behind writing a manifesto:  it's not to codify ourselves so we can tell the
"ravers" from the "non-ravers" (that would be completely silly and downright
dangerous) but instead to lay down some of the ideas we've been having so that
future generations will KNOW what we were about.  I agree with some of the
others, that a single manifesto could never encompass all that is raving and
every reason why people go, but I think it could be a start.

As I dare say, the 5+ megabytes of messages that have been posted to sfraves
over the past nine months perhaps represent the greatest collection of rave-
related writing anywhere.  If anyone's going to write THE book on raves 20
or 40 years from now I sure hope they consult these archives.  You may each
think that what you post is insignificant and would be meaningless to people
in the future, but you are wrong.... even though we don't accurately represent
the complete cross-section of San Francisco ravers.

In other words gang, we are creating the manifesto real-time.  Everyone, take
a bow.  :)

	Brian



		HOUSE MUSIC and PLANETARY HEALING

	When used with positive intention, Group Energy has the
potential to help restore the Plan of Love on Earth.  If you have
been exploring House parties, or have found a home in them, you
will, of course, be aware of the intoxicating Energy levels reached
sometimes, both personally and collectively.  It os possible to
understand better the Energy we tap into and take it a step further.
There are many preliminary ingredients to becoming spiritually
aware, and even more to be able to focus and channel Energy.  Those
aspects can be discussed another time.  For now, this is what can
be done for that moment:  OPEN YOUR HEART!!!
	When you open your heart, and trust the whole group you
dance with; when you feel love with everyone, and they return it, a
higher vibration can be reached.  This happens when a crowd is
deep into the vibe of House.  What we have here, when the crowd
is open, is the power to access some extremely beneficial Energies,
and _focus_ them instead of _losing_ them.  Down through the ages
this knowledge has been available to the few who have been able
to recognize it; it seems the House Nation has tapped in.
	In the true use of rhythmic movement, the effect is to align
the physical, mental, and emotional bodies with the Oneness of All
that Is. And this lining up, when coupled with intense aspirations
of love and high desire, "results in a downflow of Force from
above.  This causes a vivification of the [three bodies] and definite
illumination.  When an entire concourse of people is thus animated
by a single high desire, when their auras blend and form one
united channel for the downflow, the effect is tremendously
intensified and can be WORLD WIDE IN ITS RADIUS." [Alice A.
Bailey, 1919].
	Help push the consciousness another level into Enlightenment.  
It's up to each of us at the party (rave) to make it happen.  Don't 
put out negative energy and feelings.  leave the old ways behind.  
Throw yourself into the winds of transformation and sow the seeds
for a new world -- one where the human family is together again.
When people respect and care for each other as a community-organism.
It's up to us to spread the vibe.
			Spread the Peace!
		    You do make a difference!
>From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Oct 20 04:49:40 1992
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Date: Tue, 20 Oct 92 04:15:44 PDT
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9210201115.AA01902@nexsys. nexsys.net>
To: geoffw%nexsys@apc.org, sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Shamanarchy in the U.K
Status: R

O.K. Brothers & Sisters,
	Here is something I picked up in Ameba.
Rave On.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


		Shamanarchy in the U.K.
		   evolution^ & Friends

If you think Britain gave House to the planet and then got "clubbed
to death" by sharp managers, shallow DJs and uptight authorities

		   YOUR WRONG!!!

	That only drove the Rave Spirit UNDERGROUND where it was radicalized,
politicalized and has been growing ever since in thousands of squats,
festy/rave free parties and clubs.  It's bigger and more alive today and is hatching a peoplepower Movement that  will _Shake the World!_


	Across a re-emerging pagan Britian, underground anarchist armies
	   regularly deliver illegal dance music to the people against all odds

	Unpaid guerilla-rave networks of mad jhad dance fanatics and sound
terrorist activate ituitively intricate strategies by fone fax'n foot to
outwit the lawbreaking efforts of government agencies spending millions of
taxpayers money to stamp out unlicensed dancing and get everybody back into the
pubs before the anarchic spirit of dancing with fellow beings under open
skies in tangy pagan groves sends them barefoot mad and unemployable -
as well as unemployed and living in cardboard boxes as many of them already are.
	When we start asking why they do it, we come face to face with deeper questions like: Can anyone 'own' land, especially 'common land'?
What the Hell has become of the noble Albion dream of a golden flowering of civilization which still lurks in each of our hearts?
What went wrong?  Is it changing fast enough?  And what more can I do?

	As the depression in the dominator system deepens into final collapse
	the cooperative free festy/rave/squatter/new new age/techno tribal
	traveller crossover counterculture will become dominant

	Since the '80s Hippies the underground have been saying that the only hope for the dog-eat-dog Western culture before it destroyed itself and the planet was an invention that would enable every single individual in it, one by one, to escape the materialist made dream in their heads by getting back in touch with their hearts and bodies.
	In the '90s every High Street in the land of Britain boasts exactly such a facility, a club retailing SHAMANIC TRIBAL DANCING SIX NIGHTS A WEEK
to large groups of the youth of Western culture.  A whole generation is
getting out of its collective fucking head... and back into its body!
	That's Step One.  But then you have to realize that "You can't
have a perfect club in an imperfect society:  You have to change society."
And thats when the wild shamanic energy of Rave gets radicalized by meeting
Hippy/Punk and comes of age just in time to transform the culture.  No current cultural phenomenon but the scene has the mass eyes-open energy to spread this
consciousness craze globally among the youth before the planet is destroyed!
	And now such shamanic workshops are mushrooming across the planet!
	As the recession deepens throughout the decade, the cooperative free
festy/rave/squatter/new new age/techno traveller tribal crossover counterculture scenes are the real green shoots in the Communal Economy  which
will grow unstoppably into the new dominant goddess-worshipping techno-tipi dwelling eco-culture that will inherit a clensed planet.


	The System is disintegrating everywhere you look.
		Right On!  Up the Evolution!

	The Old Age Control System abandons more physical & psychic territory to the spirit of SHAMANARCHY every day.  The Centre is a lifethreat to itself as much as to everything else and cannot hold.

Supply us with the technology and the facilities and sweep the streets - we can handle the rest!

	The Music Biz corrupted Rock n' Roll into MILLIONAIREBELS in thousand dollar rags & perms _playing revolutionaries for teenage pubescents_  Punk turned out to be mostly just the second childhood death throes of Rock'nRoll
after all.  But the best stayed true and were still on the road when House came along.
	House is different, we all feel that.  This time we won't be fooled - we don't have time!  If Rock'nRoll was the rebellious trumpet that blew down the walls and left the New City of Albion open to us, the people, House is the background music in our headphones, synthesizing the triumphantly shining shamanarchic new new rave culture as peoplepower re-enters to inherit and assume command.


				fraser. may 1992


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 15:41:51 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:32:14 PST
Subject: deepquitedeep


	I agree with Kevin Goldsmith to a large degree...
a rave manifesto is kind of beyond the point...there's 
nothing wrong with it per se, but there's no way it could
really sum up the feeling you get from it, which is really
a primal, pre-language kind of thing.  "I want to be more
like the ocean, no talking and all action."  There's more
power in a sample that goes "dance while the record spins"
and a good bass tone than there is in ten thousand manifestos.
	Also...to address the responses to my statements about
the Sixties...(i.e. Big Chill assholes, nauseating hypocrisy,
etc.)...I never meant to denigrate the decade of the 1960s...
I meant to denigrate the media construct "The Sixties"...
people like Oliver Stone and Jann Wenner and so on.  The
whole idea of hanging on to something that's over. 
Especially for people from my generation who wear
Birkenstocks and listen to the Doors and shit.  For those
of you who were there and really were part of an "ecstatic
underground" and ran from the feds (?!) and meant it....cool.
I want to talk to you guys some more, hear some stories.  
Have you guys been to a lot of raves?  What do you think?  
My dad's forty-five, but he's in the Army...I love him but 
he's kind of a society man you might say....I haven't heard 
too much of the other side of it (except from Oliver Stone, 
which is how this debate all started to begin with).
	And about idealism...I also never meant to denigrate
the desire to change the world...I just think it's impossible 
unless you start by living your life on your own terms.  That's
what I mean by withdrawing in disgust.  This world is so fucked
it's hard to care about anything but my friends and bass.  
(More stuff from Lipstick Traces, god I love that book and I 
haven't even finished it yet.)  That's why American politics,
even leftist American politics, evironmentalism, activism,
etc., all ring so hollow to me.  It's the same thing I said
about manifestos....dancing all night just seems so much more
powerful...it's a political act because your doing what you want
to do despite the fact that your parents and the cops want you
out of this warehouse, off drugs, and home in bed.  A true 
revolution would be if every young person in America just stopped
going to school and work and just slept and ate and had fun.  
 Those of you on ne-raves might have already heard this from my friend
Nayeli....I was at a rave here in LA called Cosmos last February...
the loudest sound system I've ever heard (the Shredder) and
no lights except a couple of high-powered strobes.  A few hundred
kids looking like ghosts with their hands up and their eyes
wide.  The most beautiful and terrifying thing I've ever 
experienced. I said to a friend, "If anything can destroy America 
it's this!"
	Hmmmmm.....maybe it was just the ecstasy.

	Peace. 

	Jim  :)  





From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 15:51:07 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:44:34 -0800
Subject: Re: manifestos and such

> 	Shamanarchy in the U.K. as posted by Geoff White is a kind
> of manifesto.  This stuff is also printed on an alblum but Mighty
> Ming or something else might make a better anthem.
> 
> --Paul T.
> 
> -- 
> 
Mighty Ming is definitely my current rave anthem :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 15:57:06 1992
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:50:38 -0800
Subject: re:  Rave manifesto, movement talk

RITE ON, FRASER!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:00:00 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:52:56 -0800
Subject: A rave Manifesto

I think people should just write what comes to them.  There were MANY
manifestos for the 60's some things survived and became classics
some songs like White Rabbit (Go ask Alice) became anthems.  Write what you feel,
if it illuminates the truth for many, it may indeed become a manifesto, but
trying to make a manifesto is sorta stupid.  It's like in the early days of
Sun, products like NFS became standards because they did the job well and filled
a hole.  Sun missunderstood what went on here and decided that they could
turn any cheap pice of shit into a standard by just pronouncing it as such.
Manifestos are like good Standards, They are bipartisan, they get the job done
and they have a tremendous amount of grassroot support.





"They did something to you... your mind, and these Pills are part of it!"
					- EDC

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:00:59 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:44:05 PST
Subject: HELP!

i am re-posting this inquiry...it's getting close...

IF ANYONE FROM THE SOUTH BAY IS GOING TO MEAT BEAT TOMORROW, AND
HAS ROOM IN THEIR CAR...PLEASE LET THIS POOR BOY KNOW!!  I WOULD
BE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL.

thanks for your bandwidth-

-mark.  qB^)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:06:09 1992
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:58:54 -0800
Subject: Brian's postings


>Shamanarchy

RITE ON, FRASER

>Hip-hop vs. trance

Give it time, it will meld.  My son, DJ Buck, says SF will soon be known 
for its special brand of funk-based house.

>DJ Unity 92

Buck says great lineup.  I heard Onionz from NY at church: blazing,
with a little NY edge.

>Where the Wild Things Are (Nov 21)

Have you seen the flyer?  Great...now we sample kid's books.  ?-)
(Looks like mark's made a fun event.)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:06:08 1992
From: e5f010@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:30:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Saturday

To all,
	I am looking for an excellent rave on Saturday.  I have only been
to two raves before and both were at DV8, so I don't want to go there
anymore.  Also I am taking a rookie to her first rave and want to show her
how great they are.  So anyone have a suggestion...
Send them to me!
			
Gracias,
	
Gioni Pasquinelli
e5f010@hamlet.ucdavis.edu

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:10:17 1992
From: kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com (Kevin Goldsmith)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:03:15 -0800
Subject: more Manifesto response

On a manifesto as a historical document:
A manifesto is not needed as a historical document.  History will decide how
raves are to be remembered or forgotten.  I seriously doubt raving will get even
a paragraph in the history textbooks written 20 years from now, and why should
it?  Raving is not overtly political, raving is not a reaction to anything.  The
hippy movement will be remembered in American history, because it was a national
movement which was very visible, very political, and lasted a long time.  The
punk movement might be remembered (but probably will be forgotten outside of
Europe), because it was a reaction to the hippy movement, the 70's, and the
country's growing conservatism.  Raving in it's pure form is people having fun
and dancing.  Raves are not massive public protests or celebrations with
national media attention (in fact based on the discussion of the 48 hours crews
comming to a rave, people like America to remain ignorant to some extent about
raves).  As long as people who attend (or attended) raves are alive, they will
not be forgotten, and after then, who cares?

On a manifesto to increase public awareness, get raving better publicity,
etc...:
why bother?  Who cares what other people think?  If people want to believe what
they see on TV, they will, and you won't change their minds, certainly not by
passing out manifestos to the "converted."  Also, why would anyone want to
increase public awareness of raves?  Wouldn't that just speed up the destruction
of rave culture?  Most people here don't want a million people at all the raves,
it drives up the prices, increases the uncool/cool ratio, etc..  I don't
understand the motivation.

Your voice of cynicism,
	Kevin






From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:20:15 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:14:01 PST
Subject: Re: more Manifesto response


	Hmmmmm...
	Mostly agree again except the act of dancing
is political by default, like I said, and thus even
more powerful.  That's what I meant by changing the 
world in a secret way...if we all carry the memories
of raves with us, and everyone from Manchester in '87
to Berlin in  '92 carries the memories with them,
that will definitely change the world somehow, even
if it's not in an overt way....it's an influence that
will continue.  I'm not talking about nostalgia...
like if Oliver Stone made a movie about Joey Beltram
twenty years from now.  
	I'm thinking that maybe, in thefuture, and because
of us, someone will remember that just about the most
fun you can have is to dance all night to really loud
music, and that it makes you feel really warm and happy
and close to your friends, and what else is there, really?

	Jim  :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:21:44 1992
From: Pete Reiter <megatest!plethorax!preiter@sun.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:15:04 PST
Subject: house vs. hip-hop

I, for one, am bewildered how there could be a conflict between hip-hop
and house. I can see the conflict between the cultures surrounding the
two genres of music, but the music itself is so similar.

Hip-Hop is arguably the most immediate precursor to house music. So,
why would ravers reject hip-hop? Is it merely a cultural thing? 

Someone enlighten me please, this is disturbing.

					Pete


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:23:09 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:18:30 -0800
Subject: Field TRIP


	Would anyone out there be interested in to Yosemite for a few days,
cross-country skiing, hiking, etc.?  I have talked with a few people about
this and they all want to go.  I used to go regularly in high school but
haven't been able to for the past year and a half or so, and DESPARATELY
miss it.  For those of you who haven't been there, it is GORGEOUS this time
of year.  

	Here's what I was thinking:  make it the second weekend after the
new year (Thursday the 7th - Saturday the 9th), stay in cabins or Yosemite
Lodge, go cross-country skiing the first day and hiking the second, etc.
You would only miss one day of work (the 8th, and maybe part of the 7th 
if we wanted to leave earlier) and get back Saturday night, in time for
a quick rave or maybe we could all go out to a movie or something.  You'd
have all day Sunday to recuperate.  I called the reservation line, and 
there's spaces in the cabins with baths in the valley, and in yosemite
lodge for that weekend.  At this time there seems to be room between the
two of them for about 25 people, but any size is fine.  The Yosemite Lodge
rates are actually somewhat reasonable for a four-person room (and even
cheaper if we bring in a fifth with a roll-away).  I would bet that we
could cover lodging for Thursday and Friday night for about $60 per person.
(there are lots of different rates and fees for different nights and 
different places).

	Every time I've been there with a group of people we've bonded 
incredibly well.  There is a _plethora_ of places to hike and hidden 
meadows to X-country ski.

	Anyways, if you are interested in going, get back to me soon,
because there IS a limited amount of space.


	Brian

p.s. - Imagine, for a moment, 20 of us skiing into a solitary meadow in
Tuolomme meadows, we all set our back packs down, someone pulls a big 
boom box from his pack, and we all start shaking our booty... :)

p.p.s. - anyone know what the snow level is right now?

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:41:27 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:34:47 -0800
Subject: Re:  more Manifesto response

I agree with a lot of what you say - raves are mostly people dancing and
having a good time.  However, if the outside world views raves with suspician
and hostility, that's not a good thing.  Nothing exists in a vacuum;  I'm
sure many people here (myself included) have trouble telling others about
raves, about the ecstatic experiences we get, at least to particular people,
whereas if we say we went to a baseball game, people accept that as a normal
and healthy thing.  Many people don't care about this dichotomy - but I do,
if only because I am really involved in the scene and yet still want to be
able to justify my actions to the outside world.  

Hmm... my whole life I've cared too much about how "others" perceive me, not
out of vanity but simply insecurity.  Maybe I'm bringing a little bit of that
into this.  I think another motivation for wanting to implant a better image
of raves into the minds of the general public comes from a conversation with
a Golden Gate National Park reservations clerk when I tried to book the bunkers
at baker Beach for a camping trip.  I asked if sound would be a problem there,
and she paused and said, "This isn't a RAVE party, is it?", as if it were a
dirty word.  

As for the history books, I think we're at LEAST as significant as punk - and
I think we'll have a greater impact.  Punk wanted to change the world, but
they waned to do it through angst - we want to change it though acceptance and
love.  That sounds hokey, but I think it's totally significant.  

A closing thought - we need to decide who the Manifesto would be written FOR
before we start talking about writing it.  Is it for US, to help us clarify
what we're feeling as a step towards understanding it more (don't tell me
you can have an experience that CAN'T be put into words - we just need to get
some poets on the net, that's all. :)  or is it for the outside non-raver
never-want-to-be-a-raver crowd?

Hey, maybe a film, a la woodstock?  I know there's been LOTS of footage shot.
Something showing ALL sides (well, as many as can fit in 2 or 4 hours).  
Anyone here video/film/communications majors? ;)

	Brian

p.s. - funny how all this talk about a manifesto springs up the day before
Meat Beat Manifesto perform here....


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:48:54 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:14:05 PST
Subject: hip-hop vs. tekno/etc...

i think i'm kinda missing something is the comparisons between
"rave" music and hip hop.  i think a lot of djs (take spun for
instance) used to spin hip-hop before there  was a huge market
for techno etc. and so there is a grey crossover area.  but
other than that, i don't see any real correlation between "rave"
music and rap/hip hop.

i mean why isn't EBM, punk, etc. being included?  okay, i know
why punk isn't being included here, but my point is, why should
there need to be an inherent relation between "rap" and "rave"?
i most definitely would get a different feeling listening to
hip hop/rap at a party than techno/house/whatever...

and i DO like hip hop.  i'll listen to it in the car (when there's
no techno / ind :)  but it's not what i want to hear at a rave...
perhaps a permutation for a certain rave sub-culture?

just a few very disjointed thoughts toward the end-of-the-day... xO <- yawn...

-mark.  =8b
.ure?

just a few very disjointed thoughts toward the end-of-the-day... xO <- yawn...

-mark.  =8b

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:54:59 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:46:40 PST
Subject: Unity - who]s doing it.

REPLY TO 11/18/92 06:14 FROM wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us "William Penna":
Unity = The Time Has Come!

i]m up for organizing, helping, whatever the the unity thing.
whoever is taking the the lead, please contact me, i know many big
players in the bay area hip-ho scene(s) who would be willing to work
with us. if no one else is taking the issue on, i]ll do it, just let
me know....
pat

To:  wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From Pat.Dote@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 17:00:52 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
Date:      Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:59:34 PST
Subject: yet anther manifesto patch cord

REPLY TO 11/18/92 16:37 FROM bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu "Brian Behlendorf": Re:
more Manifesto response

here]s another 2 cents on the subject of manifestos, bringing me up
to a whooping 6 cents i believe.....
i]m not sure if i]m interested in the larger scope of historical
progressions. maybe just tomorrow. i think manifesting rave
attitudes, i.e creating multiple manifestos might not only let us
{raves} look at what we do with new directions in mind and new ways
of encoding what rave can be, and what media it transliterates onto
- but it also might be a way to create ourselves as a community to
the outside, and a way to link with others, for all that]s worth.
finally - i agree with brian, we]re all creating a real time
manifesto, but not just through em, but through participating in
culture - for me a manifesto is a way of saying, hey - i know i]m a
participant, and i]m going to be rather sure, and confident, and
knowlegeable about what that participation will look like.
i think my problem is i]m too interested in public relations having
worked for one of the giants before i knew what they were on about
and then i quit. but the experience so traumatized me that i now
want to sink my life]s savings into opening a pr firm for grassroots
groups with progressive aggendas like NOW, Greenpeace, etc... just
once i]d like to read an article in a newspaper that]s as positive
or at least as objective about non-mainstream (i.e. non-mythical)
culture as it is about gm]s new air bag.
it]s really scary who uses public relations and what for. people
like the kuwaitti royal family for instance.
i kinda feel if you don]t wrap direcions around your participation,
someone, or something else will.
paranoia paranoia boo!
pat

To:  bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 17:17:07 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Wed, 18 Nov 92 17:03:09 PST
Subject: a momentous breakthrough


after 5 days i haven]t received any flame for my morrissey post. i
would therefore like to declare morrissey dogging a g-rated, family
value, mainstream acceptable fox network prime time if not a little
passe pastime.
thanks to everyone who made it possible. snif.
i feel like we]ve all just collectively broken through a wall on the
adolescent experience
pat (vicar in a tutu) dote

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 17:17:45 1992
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:06:49 PST
Subject: ???

>But he misses the boat <totally> about the 60s.  There is no way 
>for a young twentysomething of today to get the 60s from the media
>portrayal of it.  In fact, the leading edge people of the 60s felt

Actualy, I don't know if we disagree or not because I don't know
the deffinition of media were working with here.  Are, biographies,
autobiographies, poems, stories, and other written works by and about 
the artists and key players of the 60's themselves considered media?
Media is easy to diss upon but it is not all Tom Brokaw and Sam Donaldson.
I think legitimate media forms get unfairly grouped with the kind of
media we (the list, counterculture, youngsters) dislike.   When you step
back and examine something with the help of many perspectives, it could
be argued that you get a view of (or closer too) what was REALY happening
rather than the view of what one individual THOUGHT was happening while
in the situation itself or as a memory.  I'm a young twentysomething and raver
and although I admit I'm not typical in this regard, I think I do have a
really good idea about what the 60's were about and I feel condencended
upon by the above and below statements.  In fact I was born in and of alot
of the 60's ideas and landmarks and have less 40's and 50's social programing
to have to overcome before understanding the 60's.  I was born in them and 
experienced the early 70's 60's remnants.  Growing up in Berkeley and having
a hippy/deadhead faze from 6th - 12th grade may have had alot to do with
it too.

>PS:  wait!  its true!  young ravers today really have no idea about
>what the 60s were really about.  but the next time you enjoy X, 
>remember some of us were chased by helicopters, surveyed by nite
>scopes, pulled from bed by automatic weapons in our faces, and thrown
>into solitary confinement because we were committed to the rights of
>everyone to alter their own consciousness in any manner they choose.

I do however, notice the first real (signifigant) generation gaps occuring
between the 60's generations and the current ones.  The changes that the 
60's spawned seem to be taken for granted alot.  Hopefully this is what
you're reffering too.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 17:18:16 1992
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:30:16 PST
Subject: ???

>cross section of rave culture.  rave culture is constantly changing, just like
>all the youth cultures before it.  it is becomming commercialized, and absorbed
>into society as a whole, just as did all the "movements" before it.  I don't
>want to down you all, or rain on your parades, but this is a fact of modern
>society.  Rave culture will become just as diluted an meaningless as the hippy
>"movement," the punk "movement" and all the "movements" since.  

Actually, that's a pretty pessemistic attitude.  These movements layed more
ground than you know.  Your statements would be like telling an older brother
or sister that they didn't do shit for you as far as your parents dicipline
and rules were concerened, which any older or younger brother or sister can
attest is completeley untrue.  The first waves break the ground and clear the
way for the succesive.

>Rave culture, especially AMERICAN rave culture, will not change the world, or
even a small

The ever popular self-bash, it would have to be somewhere vogue like Europe
or cultural like Asia, right.  Don't mean to sound patriotic or anything but
why discredit ourselves.  America (mis)leads the way on many frontiers.  It
just looks like your implying that it is a granted that we deffinitely couldn't
do something cool.  I think it's just improbable.

>part of it.  That is what happens to modern counter culture, everyone wants to
>create a massive change in the infrastucture of society, however you need a lot
>of people involved to create that sort of change, and as more people join
>together, the messages get more and more diluted.  There is no unified voice to

I don't know if it would ge diluted, it could get amplified.

>rave culture, and there are no rules.  By creating a manifesto, you seek to
>create some sort of structure, but this goes against the grain.  Why not just
>enjoy what ravers have created for themselves so far, and continue to be
>involved so that there is still something left after the national, corporate
>"rave hysteria" has died down.

Not create structure but define the existing one to the people new to the scene
so that they have a foundation to start from and can then enjoy and be part of
the scene that ravers created, etc, and this might help fight the corporate
rave hysteria.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 17:21:04 1992
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 11:52:05 PST
Subject: ???

>In a recent issue of Mambo 2000, they had an interview with some
>acid-house-head in England.  He was wearing a T-Shirt that said in large
>"Frankie" style lettering, "Rock and Roll is Dead".  Has anyone seen these
>shirts?  I've been calling around town and the only people who will make me
>one will iron on the letters.  Ugh.  I want a silk screen.

My friends will sikscreen any number of any shirt design for anyone (that
gives them money), although I don't particularly agree with that specific
message.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 18:23:07 1992
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.uu.net (P. Couch)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:34:59 PST
Subject: Re: deep house/ deep thoughts



>TAXI here,
>In my view of things, a part of what raving allows people to realize 
>when they "get it" is that we are living in an artificial world with zillions 
>of man-made rules which I will attempt to enumerate below.

As far as I am concerned, there is only 1 rule:
Do onto others what you would like done to you.

P.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 19:12:31 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:50:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Saturday


> From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 16:41:18 1992
> From: e5f010@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:30:26 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Saturday
> To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
> Content-Length: 348
> 
> To all,
> 	I am looking for an excellent rave on Saturday.  I have only been
> to two raves before and both were at DV8, so I don't want to go there
> anymore.  Also I am taking a rookie to her first rave and want to show her
> how great they are.  So anyone have a suggestion...
> Send them to me!
> 			
> Gracias,
> 	
> Gioni Pasquinelli
> e5f010@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
> 


I can only say one thing... WICKED!!!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 19:15:38 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: more Manifesto response

> On a manifesto as a historical document:
> A manifesto is not needed as a historical document.  History will decide how
> raves are to be remembered or forgotten.  I seriously doubt raving will get even

I have a feeling that you are wrong.

> a paragraph in the history textbooks written 20 years from now, and why should
> it?  Raving is not overtly political, raving is not a reaction to anything.  The
> hippy movement will be remembered in American history, because it was a national
> movement which was very visible, very political, and lasted a long time.  The
> punk movement might be remembered (but probably will be forgotten outside of
> Europe), because it was a reaction to the hippy movement, the 70's, and the
> country's growing conservatism.
 
Raving is still young, give it time.  In England it is VERY political.
I saw the seeds of raving develope when I was there in 85 with the convoy and the travellers.

 Raving in it's pure form is people having fun
> and dancing.  Raves are not massive public protests or celebrations with
> national media attention (in fact based on the discussion of the 48 hours crews
Not yet, but I predict that by next summer we will be having 20,00 person raves

> comming to a rave, people like America to remain ignorant to some extent about
> raves).  As long as people who attend (or attended) raves are alive, they will
> not be forgotten, and after then, who cares?
> 
> On a manifesto to increase public awareness, get raving better publicity,
> etc...:
> why bother?  Who cares what other people think?  If people want to believe what
> they see on TV, they will, and you won't change their minds, certainly not by
> passing out manifestos to the "converted."  Also, why would anyone want to
> increase public awareness of raves?  Wouldn't that just speed up the destruction
> of rave culture?  Most people here don't want a million people at all the raves,
> it drives up the prices, increases the uncool/cool ratio, etc..  I don't
> understand the motivation.
> 
> Your voice of cynicism,
> 	Kevin
> 
> 

Come to WICKED this saturday and see if you still believe all that stuff that you wrote.
> 
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 19:17:42 1992
From: rapotter@colby.edu (Russell A. Potter)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:16:25 -0500
Subject: Attn:ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu



[I'm sending this to the list as mail to "ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu" is bouncing...]
 
Andy,
 
It's great to hear from someone who is on sfraves AND technoculture!
Of course, bearing in mind that Moby in "real" life may just be
a good simulacrum, how about going in as the official reviewer for
*Assemblage*?  I hope you got our first issue, 'umble and rather
scattered as it was (I sent it to ne-raves, sfraves, and tnc);
the editor for issue 2 is Joe (cutter@silver.lcs.mit.edu), and I'm
sure he would love to run either a review of the event and/or
an interview with Moby . . . .
 
Anyway, best of luck.  Sometimes, all it takes is a little chutzpah...
 
--Russell Potter
(rapotter@colby.edu)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 22:03:19 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:33:26 PST
Subject: Re: Were Any of You Guys There?

Hey Jim--

Okay, so I'm 56 and I was there--psychedelic 
dances almost 30 years ago now.  Whether that's
more significant than Oliver Stone or Spike Lee
fims about JFK and Malcolm X is debatable--they're
parallel universes.  Actually I'd probably be
more interested in talking to your 45 year old 
Army dad to see where his head was then and where 
it is now (Do you know?  Have you talked about
these things with him?)  I've taught high school
English sine '60, so he could've been one of my
8,976
former students.  There's the esoteric (the spirit
stuff--and I see a lot in common between Kesey/
Ginsburg/Leary/McKenna/Orb/Doors/Shamen/Dead/Etc.)
and the exoteric (the external icons of the above
that we point to as records of them--photos, movies,
books, hearsay, CDs, etc.): the Birkenstocks and
incense belong to the latter; your "few hundred
kids looking like ghosts" to the former! I've
felt that at beat pads on Sausalito arks in the
'50s to warehouse Gathering raves in the '90s.
Stories?  They're the manifestation of the mani-
festoes!  As some folkie guy said 30 years ago,
I'll let you in my dream if you'll let me in yours!

Too bad he let Sinead O'Conner get trashed at his
benefit concert a while back, eh?
THAT shows the difference, too!
World's second most babbling raver,
Will


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 22:05:36 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:55:51 -0800
Subject: Re: manifestos and such

Geoff says (and I listen):

> Mighty Ming is definitely my current rave anthem :)

It was mine for quite a while (along with UVC and Liberty City), but
check out Praise by Inner City (Future Sound of London Mix).

Bloodcurdlingly awesome!

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 22:05:52 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:31:15 -0800
Subject: UltraOrbitalManifesto pre-party

Well, not really a party, but Brian and I are getting together for
dinner beforehand, and y'all are welkom!

For the occasion, I've selected Pauline's Pizza on Valencia between
Duboce and 14th.  I've never eaten there, but it comes highly recommended,
and it's ridiculously easy to get there from 101 (Mission / Van Ness exit,
left at 2nd traffic light, it's on your right just after the old Levi
Strauss building).  It's also easy to get to the show from there.

I think if we get there at 7pm, we should have plenty of time before
the show starts (ostensibly at 8:30).  Well, let's aim at 6:45pm to be
safe.

Try and get back to me if you want to go, and I'll make a reservation
(if they take 'em).

Sample the mushrooms and hold the anchovies,

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 22:06:04 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:56:31 PST
Subject: feeling like a butt

for not offering earlier but anyone from the south bay or berkeley or
hell, even utah who is going to MBM and/or deep faith and needs a
place to stay/crash/etc is welcome at our place.  E-mail or call
(415) 552-9573.  I can't promise when we're coming home after the show
but anyone is welcome to roll along with us.

H&G
-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey					     this line is not secure
power			force			motion		      drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 22:45:41 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:35:06 -0800
Subject: Re:  Brian's postings

This just in from Randy T.:
| >Hip-hop vs. trance
| 
| Give it time, it will meld.  My son, DJ Buck, says SF will soon be known
| for its special brand of funk-based house.

If the advanced reports of the upcoming UVC single are correct, Buck's
prediction might be right on the money.

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 22:45:52 1992
From: rth@netcom.com (Robert Hughes)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:35:10 -0800
Subject: Tasti Box info??



So I see Tasti Box is playing the DNA on Thursday, the 19th. I've seen them 
mentioned a couple of times, but don't know anything about their music. 
Anybody have a mini-review they could share?

rth

Share and enjoy!


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 00:19:30 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 00:06:22 -0800
Subject: Re:  Moby in 100% Real-Life

Same deal for me,  messages to <ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu> bounce.

I saw him last winter.  He sounded great, but between songs he just
deadpans into the mike "My name is Moby" -- after every song!

Not exactly Mr. Personality.  I did hear him interviewed on KMEL a
few weeks after that, and he had some interesting things to say about
the NY scene and his ascension as DJ / musician.  Go for the interview
if you think you have any shot.

Let us know how it goes (when's he coming out here?)

- MykL G


From sykerax@cats.UCSC.EDU Thu Nov 19 09:14:41 1992
From: sykerax@cats.UCSC.EDU
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 01:35:28 -0800
Subject: Re: Field TRIP

	field *trip*?
	*x*-country ski?

	sly, brian!

	i would love to do yosemitie, though i would want
	to do the nearby downhill skiing...

	


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 09:19:47 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 03:05:58 -0800
Subject: Extra MBM ticket

Someone I bought a MBM/Orbital/Ultramarine ticket for flaked out.

If you want the ticket, and can meet at Pauline's Pizza tomorrow evening
(or somewhere else before then), give me a shout.  First come, first served.

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 09:20:42 1992
From: sykerax@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 01:20:31 -0800
Subject: my idea


	is to take a year round all peacelove energy rave
	to the rainbow gathering

	drop out of this mad society alltogether
	all of us together


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 09:20:58 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 02:38:23 -0800
Subject: Re: manifesting manifestos

Yeah, I was going to support Brian's observation that the word 'manifesto'
doesn't necessarily fit what we want to do, and may have entered into
discussion merely because of the upcoming MBM show!

I think of these 'manifesto's as little declarations of what we individuals
cherish most about this scene that's sprung up.  NOT a definition, NOT a
historical audit trail, NOT a public relations tool to wave in front of the
mass media.  Just an explanation of what make this thing so unique and
valuable to us, to show perhaps to newcomers who are wondering what it is
that they've stumbled into -- not that they need such an explanation (we
didn't, after all), but there's nothing wrong with a road map for those who
think they might benefit from one.  Think of this so-called "manifesto" as a
miniature FAQ, something to light the path a bit for those starting out, or
those just curious.  Think of it:  this is our potential defense against
the negative effects of having the scene grow too quickly.

And it isn't intended to replace the direct experience, only augment it.

As for the sfraves archives serving this purpose -- well, great, but who has
time to slog through the 5 MB of accumulated material?  A well written
"manifesto" or three will boil it down to the essential handful of KB.

I don't think I'm the guy to write such a thing, but I'll step forward to
edit and compile submissions (or head up a group to do so).

- MykL G

[ Ital. < _manifesto_, clear < Lat. _manifestus_. ]

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 09:30:29 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 08:44:41 PST
Subject: Malcome's XTC

Just saw the Malcome X movie last night and it was indeed excellent.
I have read the book a couple of times and Spike has made a movie that
is pretty much true to the autobiography.  If some of you out theere don't
know who Malcome X was or just think he was a "hate monger who said kill
all white people" then you NEED to see this movie.

I think Spike has made his Epic,  this will be a hard act for him to follow.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 09:32:09 1992
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlqn.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 12:21:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Liquid oil projections..

>>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:50:25 -0800, ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont) said:

  Chris> A widely available overhead projector may be used to project
  Chris> kinetic liquid projections.. :ambient effect..  Use a
  Chris> overhead projector with bottom lighting,preferably with a
  Chris> quartz-halogen lamp.Put a dimmer on the main power [...]

You should be aware that this isn't very good for the bulb.  Running a
halogen bulb at reduced brightness shortens its life, and results in
metalic deposits on the inside of the bulb, reducing its brightness.

	-roy

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 10:18:35 1992
From: The Normals <normals@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:45:17 -0800
Subject: Re:  a revalation

I've been thinking bout the "addictive" nature of both raving and also
BBSing [i work at the well for those who don't know...]  and I really believe 
that a large part of what people are drawn to in both cases is not the form
but the communion with others.  Or to put it another way, perhaps we got into 
raving through the music but we keep coming back for the connection.  Thoughts?

Also if this has already been thoroughly hashed over, I apologise.  I haven't 
been able to get to this mail since Saturday.  I just had my hours increased
to full time at the WELL, got a raise too!  And still do the 6 hour a week 
radio job as well.

see you in the future...
-M

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 10:24:53 1992
From: awd@eng.sun.com (Alex Davidson)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 08:28:08 PST
Subject: Grooves

-Morning Ravers

Now this is interesting.  This is the first time that I've
seen anyone post the names of songs.  

Hi, I'm Alex and this is my first posting! I've only been on this
alias for a few days.

I am a vinyl adict. I spend all my income on House, Techno, whatever,
dance music. Can everyone out there send me names of songs, beats, etc
especially Tribal and Deep (I'm talking real deep as in anything on
the Guerilla label).

-Thanks....  Alex



> From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 21:28:25 1992
> From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
> To: geoffw@carlyle.com
> Subject: Re: manifestos and such
> Cc: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
> Content-Length: 249
> X-Lines: 10
> 
> Geoff says (and I listen):
> 
> > Mighty Ming is definitely my current rave anthem :)
> 
> It was mine for quite a while (along with UVC and Liberty City), but
> check out Praise by Inner City (Future Sound of London Mix).
> 
> Bloodcurdlingly awesome!
> 
> - MykL G
> 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 10:25:12 1992
From: ching@nebula.decnet.lockheed.com
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 06:22:01 -0800
Subject: Is There a Lunch Today?


 Hello Folks!

  I'm posting this from work - I've been working a &@!*# 4AM to Noon shift
recently, and I didn't get to read my email at home before I left for
work today. So - is there a South Bay lunch today? Or even a North Bay
lunch - since I get off work at noon, I could conceivably make either
one!

 Since I may not get home in time to read my email, please reply to this
post - I'll read it before I leave work today.

 			Larry "Is This One of Those Mis-Use of Company
				Resources Things?" Ching


From randyb@calera.com Thu Nov 19 10:30:38 1992
From: Randy Bias <randyb@calera.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 10:27:46 PST
Subject: Re: Is There a Lunch Today?

>  Hello Folks!
Hey Larry.  No, I don't think there is a South Bay one.  At least, I don't know
of it.  I'm too busy these days.  I think there is a trend in that general
direction of late.  Hrm...

Anyway, have fun and "Party on Wayne."  :)

Later,

--Randy

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 10:30:43 1992
From: Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 10:24:11 PST
Subject: Tasti Box info??

robert hughes:
>So I see Tasti Box is playing the DNA on Thursday, the 19th. I've seen them 
>mentioned a couple of times, but don't know anything about their music. 
>Anybody have a mini-review they could share?

i've heard a bunch of their tracks.  as far as i'm concerned, they've
only ever done one worthwhile song and that one is called "eros."
you've probably heard it.  i think i played it at the last alternity.

they've contributed a few tracks for twitch.  "rush" is on issue 5 and
is pretty standard acid fare.  "asid" is on the soon-to-be-released
issue 8 and it's pretty standard acid fare.

i'm not wildly enthusiastic about them, as you can tell.  "eros" is a
*great* song though.

/j/

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 10:50:37 1992
From: Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 10:41:04 PST
Subject: A rave Manifesto

>some songs like White Rabbit (Go ask Alice) became anthems.

"FEED YOUR HEAD!"

we need a catchphrase like that.  "dance while the record spins" just
doesn't cut it for me.

/j/

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 11:22:50 1992
From: "Tim Hyland" <thyland@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 11:19:04 PST
Subject: Re: Tasti Box info??

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU's message of 11-18-92 22:44

>So I see Tasti Box is playing the DNA on Thursday, the 19th. I've seen them 
>mentioned a couple of times, but don't know anything about their music. 
>Anybody have a mini-review they could share?

Here's a mini-mini-review:

	I fell asleep during one of their performances.  Just (IMHO) the
	typical boring repetitive shallow sampled midi sound bites and riffs
	played by live slapping of the keyboard while Mouse (one of the two
	members) shouts over the microphone.  Certainly don't go out of your
	way just to see them.

Share and enjoy,

Tim


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 12:17:24 1992
From: Pete Reiter <megatest!plethorax!preiter@sun.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 11:55:17 PST
Subject: Re: This Week's RAVE guide

The hotline for Ascent says it is on Friday night. Also, the 415
area code phone number is wrong.

					Pete

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 12:17:31 1992
From: kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com (Kevin Goldsmith)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 11:28:46 -0800
Subject: ???

On Nov 18,  1:30pm, Mark wrote:
>
> Actually, that's a pretty pessemistic attitude.  These movements layed more
> ground than you know.  Your statements would be like telling an older brother
> or sister that they didn't do shit for you as far as your parents dicipline
> and rules were concerened, which any older or younger brother or sister can
> attest is completeley untrue.  The first waves break the ground and clear the
> way for the succesive.
>
	I never said that hippy culture, and punk culture achieved nothing.
 What I said was that rave culture, like all other youth cultures, will
eventually die out as it becomes commercialized and subsumed into society.  As
raves become more popular, they become less underground, they become mainstream.
 They lose their focus, and they lose their "underground" lure.  The youth will
move on and create the next subculture.  (just like punk came from hippy music,
new wave came from punk music, ...)

> >Rave culture, especially AMERICAN rave culture, will not change the world, or
> even a small
>
> The ever popular self-bash, it would have to be somewhere vogue like Europe
> or cultural like Asia, right.  Don't mean to sound patriotic or anything but
> why discredit ourselves.  America (mis)leads the way on many frontiers.  It
> just looks like your implying that it is a granted that we deffinitely
couldn't
> do something cool.  I think it's just improbable.
>

Rave culture is different in Europe, Europe and Asia aren't "vogue" they are
just different places, and American Rave Culture, is different then European
Rave Culture, because America and Europe are different.  Got it?  European rave
culture (from what I understand from my sister who lives in the UK, and from my
travels there) is completely different in focus, and attitude, as well as the
people who participate in it.  Give me some credit.


> >part of it.  That is what happens to modern counter culture, everyone wants
to
> >create a massive change in the infrastucture of society, however you need a
lot
> >of people involved to create that sort of change, and as more people join
> >together, the messages get more and more diluted.  There is no unified voice
to
>
> I don't know if it would ge diluted, it could get amplified.
>
	Only if there was a unified voice, like the hippy movement had, but they
had something to unify around.  A solid thing.  The vietnam war.  There were a
lot of other issues the hippies dealt with, but none brought people together and
gave them a voice like the vietnam war.  There is no such issue in our time.
 Hippies were a product of vietname and 50's era conservatism.  Rave culture is
not a product of anything so grand and sharp in focus.

>
> Not create structure but define the existing one to the people new to the
scene
> so that they have a foundation to start from and can then enjoy and be part of
> the scene that ravers created, etc, and this might help fight the corporate
> rave hysteria.
>
> -Mark
>
>-- End of excerpt from Mark


You don't welcome someone into a scene by giving them a piece of paper and
saying "this is what we believe" unless you are trying to create religious
converts or run for office.  Let new people come in and form their own opinions.
 Just like you did.  Let people build their own foundations if they want.
 Nothing we can do will fight the corporate rave hysteria.  As long as money can
be made, people will be there to capitalize on it.

starting to consider a career in sociology,
	Kevin





From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 12:17:41 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 11:34:42 PST
Subject: ???

A couple of people on the list showed interest in having shirts
silk screened for one reason or another so I'll just post the info
to everyone:  Call (510) 208-3464 and talk to Don or Peter.  Either you
or they can get a positive made of any design at Amsterdam Art or elsewhere
for around $10.00.  Than they make a screen of it and use that for making
the shirts.  They keep the design on file for any future use.  You'll have
to talk to them about rates.
-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 12:18:54 1992
From: Pete Reiter <megatest!plethorax!preiter@sun.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 11:16:58 PST
Subject: Re:  a revalation

> I've been thinking bout the "addictive" nature of both raving and also
> BBSing [i work at the well for those who don't know...]  and I really believe 
> that a large part of what people are drawn to in both cases is not the form
> but the communion with others.  Or to put it another way, perhaps we got into 
> raving through the music but we keep coming back for the connection.  Thoughts?

Yes! I starting raving for the community aspect. That's the main
reason that I'm still at it. Granted, the music is nice, too ...


						Pete

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 12:37:51 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 10:40:59 PST
Subject: Re: manifestos and such

> It was mine for quite a while (along with UVC and Liberty City), but
> check out Praise by Inner City (Future Sound of London Mix).

Speaking of which....  Future Sound of London will be in San Francisco in 
January.  I don't know if they will be performing or DJ-ing or what not.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 12:38:38 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 10:47:24 PST
Subject: Re:  Brian's postings


> This just in from Randy T.:
> | >Hip-hop vs. trance
> | 
> | Give it time, it will meld.  My son, DJ Buck, says SF will soon be known
> | for its special brand of funk-based house.
> 
> If the advanced reports of the upcoming UVC single are correct, Buck's
> prediction might be right on the money.

In the interest of foiling Buck's prediction, we have tossed all the new UVC
funk/trance stuff.  Our next single will be a Baroque/new-age/metal athem.


From sybase!dit@sun.com Thu Nov 19 12:40:41 1992
From: sybase!dit@sun.com (David Trumbull)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 11:04:53 PST
Subject: Re: A rave Manifesto

> I think people should just write what comes to them.  There were MANY
> manifestos for the 60's some things survived and became classics
>some songs like White Rabbit(Go ask Alice) became anthems. Write what you feel,
> if it illuminates the truth for many, it may indeed become a manifesto, but
> trying to make a manifesto is sorta stupid.  It's like in the early days of

Yeah, that is what I thought.. If you have an idea of what rave et al et al
means to you, write it down - type it in - print it out with some cool 
artwork and hand it out at the next rave you go to. Stand on the corner in
the business district and hand it out to stuffy businessmen who will probably
throw it away, but might just take the time to read it. I used to go to this
boooring sunbeam white bread junior college and to amuse myself I would make
little posters and post them around campus - sometimes they had messages, 
sometimes they were just art (just art?). Anyway, the point is that if you
feel it and it is important to you let it be known. This is exactly what I like
about NYC - you see cool wierd posters, flyers, graffiti EVERYWHERE - last time
I made my pilgrimage to my mothercity I spent a whole night walking around
with my walkman and wrote down in my notepad notes about all of the great
ideas that are simply part of the urban landscape there. Mmmhmm that night
was at least as good as the best book I have ever read. So my wandering point
is: express yourself, damnit! (but you already knew this, right?)
love
superhigh
discombobulated as ever!
> "They did something to you... your mind, and these Pills are part of it!"
> 					- EDC

what song is that from? I can't even count the times that I've had that
'the pill pill pill pill pill...' stuck in my head.

Now that I'm posting, I guess I should get it all out:
On Hip-Hop and rave unity: My dream club - Mr Fives or Defiant in front,
Wicked in back! One nation under a groove getting down for way more than just
the funk of it. The turn of the century is coming, lets get something done!
-- 
  Superhigh            \       We just feel happy 
 dit@sybase.com        /        we dont know why
  +vibes+             /	      We just feel happy - thats real     oh yeah....

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 13:03:39 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 12:58:22 PST
Subject: catchphrases


	I didn't mean for "dance while the record spins"
to be a catchphrase...I actually chose it for its inanity.
Ummm.....but if we do need a catchphrase...how about
Moby's two letter manifesto:   GO!!!!!!

Jim :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 13:24:17 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:15:52 PST
Subject: raveisms

REPLY TO 11/19/92 12:12 FROM kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com "Kevin Goldsmith"

i think rave culture, if it exists, and i'm not sure i would
consider it culture, in the u.s. came out of a crosswinds between
the continual fusing of silicon/ post industrial technologies into
carbon based daily experience (i.s. life=cyborganic milieu of
recording technologies and recordings) and a growing apathy to
significant change in the conditions of living socially with all the
incessant beuracratic and political bickering that long long ago
forgot the issues and now have dialogs only remiscent or nostalgic
for real issues. raveisms are at once escapes and reallignments of
all these problems - and i think the sharp focus that is aligning us
is the lack of a possibility for sharp focuses in the later later
20th. it doesn't feel like vietnam, but in some ways the gradual
errosion of any shared reality can at once be liberating and
extremly scary, especially since the forces fighting over control of
these fractal realities are largely the forces of government wed
capitalism wed power elite wed public relations media orgy.
turn on the news, you are no longer informed or entertained - you
are infotained.
in the 1800's nietzsche claimed god was dead.
in the 1900's freud claimed that not only is god dead, but the dead
god is inside you
in the 1990's i'd suggest truth isn't dead, just hackneyed, passe,
and a gas guzzler of an ineffective methodology.
it's no longer about truth, but about seizure of recording
technologies, and staking out the metaphors.

pat

To:  kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 13:39:40 1992
From: SHALA-KO (technokachina) <sscoen@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:34:32 EST
Subject: a callout and a request from a fellow raver.

I am new to the sfraves list, and in the spirit of a global, technological 
community that ravers like us all believe in, this is a callout to the SF posse, 
and all the ravers in my home raven grounds. It is also a request, which I'll 
speak of soon.

My name Shannon Coen. On the ne-raves@silver.lcs.mit.edu list I go by SHALA-KO.
I was born, and have spent the entirety of my life in Santa Cruz, Ca. Now I am a
sophomore at M.I.T. in Cambridge, Mass. This summer, through one of my DJ friends
in SC whose trying to open a techno/industrial club there called Dominium (I
don't know if it's open yet, if any of you live or happen to be in SC, check it
out and tell me about it) I really got interested in the raves in SF.
Unfortunately, because it seems like no one I know has a car, I didn't make it
to as many as I'd have liked, but Sharon and ToonTown were breathtaking. Now I'm
hooked, and try and make it to as many as I can (or as many as M.I.T. and money
will allow), while the Orb, Orbital, Ultramarine, LOA, and the rest keep me from
going campletely, and totally, raving mad!!! (really overused pun, but I like it
anyway, just like I have a special attachment to my whistle that, no matter how
mainstream they become, I will never let go of)

Anyway, to the point of the callout: I have to go to, of all places, Iowa, this
christmas. However, I'm considering flying out to NoCal after the 25th to enjoy
a week at home, holiday raving. I'll probably be staying with my grandparents in
Orinda, because it's alot closer to the city than SC. 

My question: If I fly out, I  want to catch the legendary ToonTown/Gathering New 
Years rave and I was wondering if there was anyone out there who could, so to 
speak, host an exchange student for that weekend? (Help me get around, a place
to crash, or a way of getting back to Orinda, etc etc etc)

Any ideas or offers, however small, are enthusiastically welcome.

Thanks so much, 
love, peace, RAVE! (don't forget your vitamins A and E, hee, hee!)
shannon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To achieve ravelightenment is to exist in the most blissfull of consciousnesses"
 S          H          A          L          A          -          K          O

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                               << SHALA-KO >>              
shannon coEn                 << technokachina >>            sscoen@athena.mit.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 13:45:04 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:30:49 PST
Subject: bring out your manifestos...

i'd like to step forward with Mykly to be a person willing to
receive shit loads of anecdotes we could string into a cohesive yet
not unified set of interpretations, including negative ones, of what
it would mean to manifest rave experiences... feel free to send
anything from milk cartons, to 8 1/2 by 11's to em to screaming
phone messages "how could you be so dumb as to assume ravers really
want to define themselves in such an archane notion" (that's just an
example of what something eligible for entry could look like.
stay in it.
pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 13:52:32 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:47:11 -0800
Subject: Re:  a callout and a request from a fellow raver.

ooops.  I should clarify my cryptic "New Year's Eve ToonTown vs the Gathering"
listing in the calendar.  I simply wanted to relate that I had heard of both
a ToonTown AND a Gathering going on that night, but they are not combining.
At least I hadn't heard they were and I seriously doubt they would.

I do know for sure that there will be a ToonTown event on New Years - the
fashion center was paid a LARGE sum of money by the Toon Town people to NOT
have a rave there for 30 days prior to New Year's, supposedly so that people
don't get burned out on the space.  Hmmm.....

	Brian

p.s. - shannon, if I have an apartment by then, you're welcome to stay with me.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 13:54:17 1992
From: e5f010@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:39:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ???

	Thanks all for your suggestions or actually suggestion for
Saturday night.  Everyone told me to go to Wicked, but I am under 21 so
hopefully there won't be an enforcmement of this.  In case there is I'd
like some alternative destinations so the hour and a half ride to the city
is worth it.  How is Where the Wild Things Are? going to be?  Also I'll
take any suggestions for tomorow (Friday) night.  Thanks again for all the
past and future tips.

G-man
Gioni Pasquinelli
e5f010@hamlet.ucdavis.edu

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:00:06 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:21:14 PST
Subject: Re: Roots of Manifesto

Okay...MykL G opened this up and I can't resist!
After all, it's what I'm trained at/for and I love
it: etymology, specifically manifesto:

man- hand (as in manual, manicotti, manure, manuscript,
mastiff, etc.

dhers- 342OS
(opps! that's the answer to the universe!)
dhers-
       to venture, be bold (as in dark, durst, dare,
infest, manifest, etc.

So I think manifesto has an apt history and pedigree
for us to use it here!
world's second most logorrheic raver
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:00:23 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:17:54 PST
Subject: pat]s response to naysaying, read only if interested.

gee - i don]t think i just bitch. i also do much building, like the
free parties i throw. <snif> if i sound 20something growing on
100something, its based more on concern and a catholic mother, than
on anger or depression. anyway, i hope no one, including William
continue to believe i just naysay. but if you do, and you need to
tell someone about it, please address your
comment just to me, and not the whole net. i was a little embarrased
reading the last post about me.
peace to all.
pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:02:11 1992
From: MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 22:55:08 PST
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
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Message-Id: <9211200042.AA23048@amber.noname>
To: uunet!soda.berkeley.edu!sfraves@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Field TRIP


Cabin sounds nice.
But snowcamping by a wild spring with a wilderness permit 
is more my speed.
The days are not the best for me too,(Friday-Sunday is better)
Keep me posted anyway. I have never skiied Yosemite.

P.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:02:25 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:50:30 PST
Subject: rave culture, luv, /etc :)


this latest thread of discussions relating to the 60s, lovE, pEacE, Etc.
has sparked my interest.  and i was thinking the similarities between 
rave culture and the 60s.  there has been some talk of how the simim-
larities between raves and the 60s run deep, but, where i believe it
is true that there are the similarities between love and peace and the
'communal gatherings' i believe the futuristic environment and attitude
(source.code, save the robots, etc.) has a good deal to do with it.

Q:  how many of us would have been a hippie if we were living in the
    60s?

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:02:59 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 14:34:56 PST
Subject: Re:  bring out your manifestos...

>i'd like to step forward with Mykly to be a person willing to
>receive shit loads of anecdotes we could string into a cohesive yet
>not unified set of interpretations, including negative ones, of what
>it would mean to manifest rave experiences...

I think brian already made the point that this has already
been done and continues with the SFRAVES archives.  But since
this seems like an important project for you to be involved
with, don't let me stop you.  I think a more useful task along
these lines would be to sift through the archives and weed out
material not at all related to raving, perhaps even putting
some kind of cohesive framework around what is there.  Whatever...

leg of eel

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:03:09 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:51:20 PST
Subject: Re: raveisms

Pat Dote is one of the best nay sayers
among us
every culture, every society has and needs
its yay sayers and nay sayers
Jeremiah was a fabulous nay sayer of old
a Jeremiad means tale of woe
I really value this constant capacity you
have to put down cynicize kvetch
for its always informed frequently startling
and usually funny but I must say
you sound like a very old soul indeed incased
in your black beat bleats and blats
and I don't know why I find myself wondering
why I'm like 56 going on 17
and you're like 20 going on a hundred and nine
do you, Pat?

world's second most Pollyannaish raver
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:05:17 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:20:00 -0800
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

----- Begin Included Message -----

>From geoffw Thu Nov 19 12:05:10 1992
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:05:09 -0800
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Full-Name: Geoff White
To: geoffw@carlyle.com, kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com
Subject: Re: more Manifesto response
Content-Length: 244

> 
> > Not yet, but I predict that by next summer we will be having 20,00 person
> raves
> >
> 	would you go to a 20,000 person rave?  neither would I.
> 
> Kevin

Actually, if I knew the Energy would be good, I wouldn't miss it for the World.


----- End Included Message -----



----- End Included Message -----


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:06:45 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 19 Nov 1992 15:14:25 -0700
Subject: RE: a callout and a request from a fellow raver.

Hi Shannon:

You are most welcomed to stay at my place to I live in Menlo Park which is 1/2
hour from the City, although Orinda is betteer becasue there is a Bart Station.

If there is a Toon Town/Gathering Rave DO NOT go to it!.  There was a huge
combined Rave on Halloween and it was a Nightmare (litterally).  All the people
wanting to go out and party went to it many Non_Ravers just out because it is
halloween. I had a friend who got there at 10:30 and waited 2.5 hrs in line and
finnally gave up.  The only way to get in was to cut because there were sooo
many people.

I went to a gathering a few months ago and it was awsome! it was 45 minutes
outside the City and so you only got the serious SF crowd mixed with the
Serious Sacramento ravers.  This was by far the best Rave I have ever attended.
 They had a great space and the gathering does not overpormote themselves which
makes them even better.


I have not looked at the list, but hopefully a lot of promoters learned that
competition is good and there wont be just one rave to go to on New Years Eve,
and there wil not be another CASPER.

    XXXX
   X    X
 X  NUT   X   
   X    X
    XXXX
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: technokachina on Thu, Nov 19, 1992 1:42 PM
Subject: a callout and a request from a fellow raver.
To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu

I am new to the sfraves list, and in the spirit of a global, technological 
community that ravers like us all believe in, this is a callout to the SF
posse, 
and all the ravers in my home raven grounds. It is also a request, which I'll 
speak of soon.

My name Shannon Coen. On the ne-raves@silver.lcs.mit.edu list I go by SHALA-KO.
I was born, and have spent the entirety of my life in Santa Cruz, Ca. Now I am
a
sophomore at M.I.T. in Cambridge, Mass. This summer, through one of my DJ
friends
in SC whose trying to open a techno/industrial club there called Dominium (I
don't know if it's open yet, if any of you live or happen to be in SC, check it
out and tell me about it) I really got interested in the raves in SF.
Unfortunately, because it seems like no one I know has a car, I didn't make it
to as many as I'd have liked, but Sharon and ToonTown were breathtaking. Now
I'm
hooked, and try and make it to as many as I can (or as many as M.I.T. and money
will allow), while the Orb, Orbital, Ultramarine, LOA, and the rest keep me
from
going campletely, and totally, raving mad!!! (really overused pun, but I like
it
anyway, just like I have a special attachment to my whistle that, no matter how
mainstream they become, I will never let go of)

Anyway, to the point of the callout: I have to go to, of all places, Iowa, this
christmas. However, I'm considering flying out to NoCal after the 25th to enjoy
a week at home, holiday raving. I'll probably be staying with my grandparents
in
Orinda, because it's alot closer to the city than SC. 

My question: If I fly out, I  want to catch the legendary ToonTown/Gathering
New 
Years rave and I was wondering if there was anyone out there who could, so to 
speak, host an exchange student for that weekend? (Help me get around, a place
to crash, or a way of getting back to Orinda, etc etc etc)

Any ideas or offers, however small, are enthusiastically welcome.

Thanks so much, 
love, peace, RAVE! (don't forget your vitamins A and E, hee, hee!)
shannon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To achieve ravelightenment is to exist in the most blissfull of
consciousnesses"
 S          H          A          L          A          -          K          O

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                               << SHALA-KO >>              
shannon coEn                 << technokachina >>            sscoen@athena.mit.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: a callout and a request from a fellow raver.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:34:32 EST
From: SHALA-KO (technokachina) <sscoen@athena.mit.edu>

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:10:27 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 14:27:33 PST
Subject: Re:  Tasti Box info??


> >So I see Tasti Box is playing the DNA on Thursday, the 19th. I've seen them 
> >mentioned a couple of times, but don't know anything about their music. 
> >Anybody have a mini-review they could share?
> 
> i've heard a bunch of their tracks.  as far as i'm concerned, they've
> only ever done one worthwhile song and that one is called "eros."
> you've probably heard it.  i think i played it at the last alternity.
> 
> i'm not wildly enthusiastic about them, as you can tell.  "eros" is a
> *great* song though.

I pretty much agree with Jon.  "Eros" is easily their best song and can be
found on the Tasti Box 3-song 12" called "San Francisco" on ZoeMajik Records.
Tasti Box have just released some new material under the name Daisy Glow,
also on ZoeMajik Records.  I can't comment on the Daisy Glow material
because I haven't heard it yet.


> they've contributed a few tracks for twitch.  "rush" is on issue 5 and
> is pretty standard acid fare.  "asid" is on the soon-to-be-released
> issue 8 and it's pretty standard acid fare.

Also, "Rush" is on Twitch CD #3, a track called "Electrons" will be on CD #5,
and "Asid" is scheduled for CD #6.


And if you like Tasti Box, you'll probably also like Young American Primitive,
which is another artist on the ZoeMagik label.




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:15:45 1992
From: "Tim Hyland" <thyland@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 18:40:15 PST
Subject: Re: paris...

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:PGRASSI@SCUACC.SCU.EDU's message of 11-03-92 10:49

(Hey all, was going to send this to Pete alone, but figured you all might be
interested.  Delete now if you don't want to hear a raver's view of the
non-rave scene in Paris.)

Hi Pete, no problemo on not getting back to me.  It was very much a last minute
kind of trip.  A coworker in our Paris office had some raver friends but they
said there was nothing going on, or if there was something, it was way
underground.  They told me about a big rave thrown the week before in some big
chateau outside of the city.  Sounded fun.  The thought of raving at
Versailles.  In the hall of mirrors.  The sheer opulence of it all.  With 5,000
ravers loosing their heads all over the place.  The maze of hedges in the
gardens.  This would be cool.  A chill out room with baroque chamber music.

The rave scene didn't seem to have seeped into as much of the day to day
culture there as it seems to have here.  Like, ravers walking around the hip
sections of town, or rave fashion in the hip clothing stores.  Did see a cool
T-shirt in a store that was just closing, but never found the store again.

Only went out dancing one night, to a gay bar called Le Cirque that was pretty
average.  Similar to an average gay club here, but the music was bad.  The DJ
just didn't know how to mix or to build a groove.  He ended up playing a couple
choppy techno songs and then a wailing diva or house groove for a song or two,
then back to the choppy techno.  I get a headache just thinking about it. 

On another evening we ended up at a tiny little jazz bar playing some major
acid jazzy 70's funk.  It was hopping, but not close to a rave.  Besides, it
closed at 2:00.  Fun nonetheless.  Other than that, pretty much my evening
amusement consisted of 6 course meals that lasted until after midnight then a
stroll through the city streets back to the hotel stopping for a beer here and
there.

I'm heading for Vienna and Amsterdam in March/April, so maybe I can find some
rave fun there.  Thanks for the info you sent earlier.

Share and enjoy,

Tim



---- Included Message ----

Received: 11-03-92 10:49                         Sent: 11-03-92 10:49 
From: WRPYR:PGRASSI@SCUACC.SCU.EDU
To: thyland@us.oracle.com 
Subject: paris...
Reply-To: WRPYR:PGRASSI@SCUACC.SCU.EDU
X-Envelope-To:  thyland@us.oracle.com
X-Vms-To:  IN%"thyland@us.oracle.com"


sorry, i was late getting back to my mail, i hadn't realized you were
leaving so early! anyhow, tell me how it went and what, if any, night
life you encountered
pgracious


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:16:20 1992
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992   17:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: deepquitedeep

In-Reply-To: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu -- 11/18/92 15:35

i think it was emma goldman who said something to the effect : 'i don't
want your revolution if i can't dance in it !' she is also one of the
few people with the distinction of being kicked out of BOTH US and USSR.
take care/shalom/salaam/rave on
ovid

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:18:02 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 14:09:36 PST
Subject: ???

> I never said that hippy culture, and punk culture achieved nothing.
> What I said was that rave culture, like all other youth cultures, will
> eventually die out as it becomes commercialized and subsumed into society.  As
> raves become more popular, they become less underground, they become mainstream.
> They lose their focus, and they lose their "underground" lure.  The youth will
> move on and create the next subculture.  (just like punk came from hippy music,
> new wave came from punk music, ...)

I agree, in fact I pretty much agreed with everything in your origional post,
I just think you came off sounding like these movements were futile and I felt 
that sould be addressed.

> Rave culture is different in Europe, Europe and Asia aren't "vogue" they are
> just different places, and American Rave Culture, is different then European
> Rave Culture, because America and Europe are different.  Got it?  European rave
> culture (from what I understand from my sister who lives in the UK, and from my
> travels there) is completely different in focus, and attitude, as well as the
> people who participate in it.  Give me some credit.

Again, I gave you credit from the begining, and didn't think you were realy comming
from the direction that it sounded like you were coming from.  It just sounded to me,
and possibly other readers that you were riding the generalizations about America 
bandwagon and ruling out the possibility that the rave scene in AMERICA couldn't
possibly change even a small part of the world (isn't that what you said?).  And 
while we all know the scenes are different, I still don't know exactly how and
how it effects the probability of change starting there rather than here.

> Only if there was a unified voice, like the hippy movement had, but they
> had something to unify around.  A solid thing.  The vietnam war.  There were a
> lot of other issues the hippies dealt with, but none brought people together and
> gave them a voice like the vietnam war.  There is no such issue in our time.
> Hippies were a product of vietname and 50's era conservatism.  Rave culture is
> not a product of anything so grand and sharp in focus.

True.

> You don't welcome someone into a scene by giving them a piece of paper and
> saying "this is what we believe" unless you are trying to create religious
> converts or run for office.  Let new people come in and form their own opinions.
> Just like you did.  Let people build their own foundations if they want.
> Nothing we can do will fight the corporate rave hysteria.  As long as money can
> be made, people will be there to capitalize on it.

Ya, but I had SFR to help "convert" me and to get scene info from.  I'm not talking
about a rave bible, just info for people who don't know what the scene is about. 
Obviosly, this would have to be very general since it is a subjective thing. 
I'm not even necesarily pro-manifesto.  I'm just playing Devil's advocate for a
side that seems to be the underdog but has some good points.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:23:07 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:39:09 -0800
Subject: Be Careful This Weekend

Just heard of a major bust in Santa Rosa involving everyone's favorite.  I
hate to inject paranoia into the scene, but please be careful so's we can
all rave on together.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 23:31:22 1992
From: Susan Kameny <SK2479A@american.edu>
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 92 02:11:06 EST
Subject:      No subject

(IMHO) hey i just got like about 20 pieces of mail in the last 10 min...s
ome of these postings can be taken care of if we all were to meet in vrave aka.
..haas.berkeley.edu 7283...join me its around 11 pst...(and by the way pat...i
am an ne-raver when i am at school and then come home to sf...yes born and rais
ed right in the city...:) ...oh and about the raver manifesto thingy...i just t
hought it would be a way to tell others about raving cuz i have some friends he
re at american u who said to me they are scared to rave because all they see ar
e the drugs and busts...hey then again maybe they are that shallow...i don't th
ink my thoughts were an effort to -define- they were more to educate...and mayb
e to say that raving isn't about racisim, homophobia and other bad social thing
s like that...cuz this prevents people from coming together and connecting..and
 as for commericalization...doesn't the word promoter imply a little commerical
ization...and whose job is it to say that someone -isn't a raver- how do we kno
w this...isn't that a judgemental defining act...i wonder sometimes about these
 things...and to say that raving is nothing would merely be coping the dadaists
because i remeber the line from one of my texts "dada is nothing"...history do
es repeat itself...eduacation could stop some bad commercialization ie that soa
p opera and 90210 kinda stuff...just a few thoughts wondering in my humble head
...partyon...susie

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 00:47:21 1992
From: coganman@soda.berkeley.edu (Andrei Cogan)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:44:12 -0800
Subject: ???

1. man.i.fes.to \.man-*-'fes-(.)to-\ n or manifestos or manifestoes [It, 
   denunciation, manifest, fr. manifestare to manifest, fr. L, fr. m] pl 
   anifestus : a public declaration of intentions, motives, or views
2. manifesto vi : to issue a manifesto


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 07:15:11 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 0:41:29 PST
Subject: Opps! I Goofed-or-I Say Nay, You Say Hey!

Oh shit!

Pardon my merde...I deserve a flame...even
if burning bullshit makes a stink!
I thought I was being cute in composing
an impromptu verse to Pat Dote about
nay-saying and yea-saying but I
(1) accidentally sent it not only to Pat
but to the whole of sfraves via "copy to"
goofing around on my part and
(2) I admire what Pat does but my comments
on a post of his made it look like a 
general putdown of him and not just an idle
commentary on that post (raveisms)!

Now that I've merde-ered myself I fully
expect bloody murder from other sfravers--
and I probably deserve it.

Please forgive the unintended embarrassment,
Pat; I think I'm at least as embarrassed
at what I originally thought was being
"cute" on my part!
world's second most regretful raver,
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 10:47:22 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 20 Nov 1992 10:27:43 -0700
Subject: TOYS R US RAVE

Went to a dinner party last night with about 10 other fellow ravers.  As the
night progressed we ended up on the subject of what a fun place Toys R US is to
go and play.  They are in these huge building with lots of space and high
ceilings.  I especially like to thow the Nerf Javellin around when I go there.

This place would be a great place for a RAVE.  You can take out all the
expensive toys and leave all the inexpensive ones for people to play with.  You
can make it so that noone is allowed to leave with anything, and all opened
toys that are not to trashed can be given to Charity. 

As far a sthe Space goes I think it would be totally cool to Keep one big open
space in the front and in the back leave the toy ailse.  Inflate all the toys
that are inflatable and put them in the ailes for people to chill on.

This is just a dream, but wouldnt it be cool, and there is a possibiltiy to do 
this without losing much money on product loss.

A very silly toy loving Adult who never grew up,

NUT

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 10:58:40 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 11:44:04 MST
Subject: Communion Tour - SLC

    "Inside Concert Promotions" or "The Most Expensive Cover Charge Ever"

When I learned that the Communion tour, with Meat Beat Manifesto, Orbital, and
Ultramarine would be playing Boulder on the 17th of November, then San
Francisco on the 19th of November, I realized that they would be passing right
through Salt Lake City.  Originally I had planned just to drive out to San
Francisco and blow $300 having fun.  Why do that though?  Why not give it my
best shot and attempt to bring them to Salt Lake City?  Our mailing list was
fairly powerful in bringing out people in short notice, so I figured I could
at least cover my costs and have a good time as well.

First I called Mute in New York, they referred me to Los Angeles, they
referred me to their agent.  I called the agency and the agent was out on
vacation.  It depended on whether or not he would return my call.  The 11th
rolled around and I hadn't heard anything yet.  So I called Mute in LA again.
They gave me the number of Tony Fletcher in New York, one of the people
responsible for Communion.  He was extremely enthusiastic about coming here.
It surprised me how easy he was to work with, considering my past (bad)
experience in attempting to bring Pigface.  He referred me to the tour
manager, Lane, who could iron things out for me.  I called Lane at his hotel.
He shared Tony's enthusiasm for coming to Salt Lake, he had been here before
with Front Line Assembly and was impressed with the crowd.  More talking and
dealing.  At this point, Lane wasn't sure if the tour was going to continue.
Meat Beat Manifesto's paperwork for their visas had been lost.  He told me
that every congressman and senator in the state of New York was trying to push
them through in time.  By Friday morning he would have an answer for me.

Friday morning?  That wouldn't be enough time to start promoting.  It was
important that we got the flyers out to the mailing list by Thursday morning.
So even though we didn't have anything verified, we did it anyway.  It would
be easier to cancel the show than promote in advance and we needed all the
advance time we could get.

Thursday afternoon, the tour's agent called me.  MBM had received their visas,
the tour was interested in playing Salt Lake City.  He wanted me to make him
an offer.  He told me that their asking rate was $5000, he said nothing about
a bonus.  $5000 was our entire budget, there was no way I could guarantee
anything if I had to put that all up in advance.  So I faxed an offer of $3000
and 40% of net.  Amazingly enough, he accepted.  Saturday morning, he called
back to iron out the details.  It seemed that the only thing he had read on my
fax was the $3000 in advance.  He asked about a bonus and I told him that I
said 40%, he said that they usually take 80%, I went half way with 60%.  He
said he would fax me the "rider" (details on what is required in sound,
lights, and hospitality) and details on where to wire the $3000 advance on
Monday.  A deal had been struck, they were coming to Salt Lake City.

They didn't have any place to play.  I had hunted high and low for a decent
warehouse and every time the owner wasn't interested.  It came down to either
putting them in a club, or not doing it at all.  We investigated a
warehouse/club, actually the first place I had ever DJ'd.  The owners had seen
fit to "renovate" the warehouse.  A lot of ugly wood laticework had been put
up and the dance floor was disassembled.  Although they were interested at a
very low rate, I felt that it wasn't an option since having the under 21 crowd
would have been a problem.  Finally I checked with DV8 (yes, the same name as
the San Francisco club, and the same atmosphere too).  DV8 had put up Front
Line Assembly and had a really good show out of it.  The fact that the tour
manager had been there before would have been a plus.  Karen, the owner was
very happy to accommodate us.  She even allowed us to take over the club and
turn it upside down in attempt to make it appear different.  I was expecting a
very high rental, but amazingly enough, she asked only for the cost of the
five bouncers we wanted to use.  Of course, she was probably going to take in
a lot on the upstairs 21+ bar.

I received the "rider".  Holy commoly.  Was I really expected to provide all
this?  On Monday, after arranging our sound ($800) and our lights ($500), I
arranged the catering.  This is everything they wanted in the way of food:

      "Various sliced vegetables for sandwiches (tomatoes, lettuce,
      cucumbers, bean/alfalfa sprouts, etc.). Two large packages of cold,
      firm tofu, herb tofu if available. Assorted sliced cheeses
      (mozzarella, cheddar, Soya mozzarella), Six sliced loaves 100% Whole
      Wheat or Multigrain bread (no white bread).  One jar crunchy Peanut
      Butter.  Green Relish, Mayonnaise (eggless), Margarine, Hummus,
      Ketchup for spreads.  One four slice toaster (don't worry, we won't
      take it).  Salt, Pepper, Knives, Forks, Spoons, Plates, Napkins.  2
      Large bags Sun Chips.  2 Large bags Ruffles Potato Chips (Salt and
      Vinegar and/or Barbecue).  2 Large bags Blue Corn chips with vegetable
      based salsa.  2 Large boxes Plain Ritz Crackers.  Assorted nuts, both
      salted and unsalted.  Assorted whole fruit (bananas, strawberries,
      apples, oranges, watermelon, etc.)  6 litres Fresh Squeeze Orange
      Juice.  2 litres V8 Juice.  1 litre Tomato Juice.  2 litres Apple
      Juice.  1 litre Carrot Juice.  2 litres Soya Milk (Vanilla and/or
      Plain).  6 litres Evian Non-Carbonated Water.  4 litres Carbonated
      Water.  Assorted Pop.  Many, many cups and ice.  One Sharpie Marker.
      One copy current Yellow pages.  One copy USA Today."

Wait, that doesn't include dinner:

      "Remember the number?  Yes, there are nineteen of us.  You are welcome
      to attempt to cook for us, more power to you, but be forewarned that
      there are vegetarians of varying degrees who whine and complain all
      day.  If you wish to make someone cook for this unforgiving bunch, the
      meal breakdown is as follows:  4 vegan (no meat, fish, chicken, egg,
      dairy, cheese, or any other animal product whatsoever)  8 vegetarian
      (no meat, fish, chicken), 7 meat eaters (no explanation needed).  The
      meals must include a main course and a salad with a selection of
      dressings.  Upon advance by Lane we will go over this in detail.
      Should the thought of cooking this bee too much for you, I know it
      would be for me, we can be bought.  For $10 per member ($190 in tens,
      please) and directions to a couple of decent restaurants (like maybe
      the nearest Indian, Thai, Chinese, and Italian restaurants) we will be
      out of your hair for awhile, at least.  Please have the buy-out
      available before dinner."

But wait!  This is an awfully thirsty bunch:

      "To be put _on_ice_ in the dressing rooms(s) moments before the doors
      open:  2x24 Imported Lager (Becks, Heineken, etc.). 1x24 Local Beer
      (surprise us, but remember that Bud, Miller, Coors, etc., do not count
      as "local").  1x6 Non alcoholic beer.  2 - 750ml bottles decent
      quality Medium White Wine.  2 - 750ml bottles decent quality Sweet Red
      Wine.  1 - 750ml bottle Champagne.  2 - 26oz bottles Vodka.  1 - 26oz
      bottles Tequila.  1 - 26oz bottle Scotch.  1x24 Pepsi/Root Beer/Dr.
      Pepper (no Coke please).  1x6 Diet Coke.  1 - bottle lime juice.  15 -
      one litre bottles Evian water.  5 - one litre bottles carbonated
      water.  20 clean white towels."

This was the first time I was thanking God for the Utah liquor laws.  By law,
we could only provide them with the beer and the non-alcoholic drinks.  We
decided to cover the rest, we'd give them bar vouchers.  As for the FOOD, I
called a local health food store and had them cater everything.  Rather than
buying them out, I decided it would be better to have dinner ready for them.
Not only could I get a bigger and better dinner for $190, but it would save
them a lot of time.  The entire meal was vegan, so there wouldn't be any
problems with the food.  Vegan lasagne, wheat-meat chicken stroganof, two
salads, and a vegetable soup.

Tuesday night, a friend on public radio did a special show for the concert.  He
played an hour of Meat Beat Manifesto, then some tracks off the Orbital album.
He said that anyone could call in for details on the concert.  Unfortunately,
most of the night, his telephone was off the hook (he didn't know).  Once he
put it back on, it was rather late.

Wednesday morning rolled around.  John and I arrived when to pick up our two
truckloads of lights then got to the club.  John got busy covering and hiding
the radio and club logos, while I started hanging lights.  The sound was
supposed to show up at 10:00.  By 10:30 nothing had arrived.  I called them and
found out that they thought it was on Thursday.  They said they would be there
within an hour.  At 12:30, the catering was supposed to show up with the
"snacks".  At 1:00 I called them, they thought it was supposed to be Thursday.
Am I going INSANE?  I looked at the invoice for catering, "Wednesday, the
19th."  Well, half way right.  The woman in charge apologized profusely and
managed to get together everything within two hours.  One hour after the tour
bus and U-Haul arrived.  When they did arrive, I had one loader and myself to
do the work.  Everyone else had gone to run errands.  So myself, the loader,
the roadies, Ultramarine, and Orbital moved all the equipment into the club.
By the time we were finished, everyone had returned.

The crew's lighting techs were busy hanging the remainder of the lights, while
everyone involved with sound did the checks.  I had virtually NOTHING to do
with the sound all night long.  It was a big relief.  My major mistake was not
hiring the lighting tech to do the lights, I figured I could do it myself and
save myself money.  This turned into a nightmare, then a blessing in disguise.
First the tech had to come down and rig up the power since the cords to the
amps were too short, and I had no idea how the jack into the house's power bank
(this isn't a simple plug).  That cost $100.  Once we had all the lights going
to the dimmer pack, NOTHING WORKED.  Turned out that the tech had wired things
backwards.  So we had to take the house power down (everyone had to save
everything on their synthesizers, NO TAPES WERE USED), then as soon as we got
the go ahead from the sound crew, we took the power down.  When things got
rewired, it came back up, but still the lights barely worked.  We had about two
working channels rather than the 12 we were supposed to have.  So we went with
the strobes, and the three effect lights that we had rented, as well as
whatever house lights we could use.  This was finally solidified minutes before
the doors opened.

There were ten people waiting outside.  I could hardly believe it.  I was
throwing the best concert this state had seen all year and there were ten
people waiting outside.  The previous night, Dead or Alive had lip-synched in
another club to a DAT tape.  The tape had broken in the middle of the
performance.  People demanded their money back.  Instead of giving all of their
money back, they gave back half and a voucher for free admission on Wednesday.
The saps took it!  We had people go down to the other club and they were lined
up around the block.  Several people told them that they would rather go to our
concert, but unfortunately they had already bought tickets for DoA.

Dave Kendall was a rather nice unassuming person.  I didn't get to talk to him
much, but he made himself busy by hanging various pieces of art around the
club.  He ran errands by himself and did a decent job MC'ing the show.  His DJ
set left a lot to be desired, but it was better than the majority of radio DJs
around here.  He kicked off the show before Ultramarine took the stage.

Ultramarine played a killer set.  I only got to see bits and pieces because I
was running around making sure everyone had eaten, had drinks, and whatever.  I
got to talk to the Hartnolls quite a bit during this time.  Phil asked me how I
did the live computer video.  Both of them were very impressed with it.  After
explaining it, I was floored to find Phil asking me for my "details."  I
thought he wanted details on how to get the equipment, but what he really
wanted was my address to stay in touch.  I also gave them Vidar's discography
and they made a lot of changes and additions to it.  When I mentioned that it
was extremely difficult to get their singles, they told me that THEY didn't
even have them all.  The record company had never sent them any and they
couldn't find them anywhere.  Of course, who needs them, when you've got the
original sequences :-)?

Jack Dangers looked over Jon Drukman's discography and laughed at the fact that
Jon had even put in the writing on the run-out groove.  He mentioned that one
of their 12"'s had no run-out groove at all.  The needle would just hit the
label.   The only addition he had for the list was the "Space Children"
release.  I'd never heard of this, but he said it was a name that he had done
by himself.  No other details were offered.  He said the discography was
extremely accurate.  When I asked about what remixes he had done, Jack just
laughed and said something to the effect that there were more than he could
remember.

Everyone involved with the tour was extremely _nice_.  They were all aware that
it was our first gig and they helped us out a lot.  Everyone signed all of
their releases I had brought.  Ultramarine said that it was the first time
anyone had asked for their autographs.

Orbital played their set in the middle of the audience.  They both came out
with glasses with flash lights on the sides.  It made their bald heads both
look quite alien.  Their synthesizer racks caged them in while they keyed off a
terrific set.  The only problem is that most people didn't realize they were
on.  Someone came up to me later and asked when Orbital was supposed to play.
I told them that they already had and pointed at the cage.  It left me frothing
at the mouth, and even though I knew I had lost a lot of money that night,
having Orbital there was worth it.  I would have never dreamed that I would
have gotten to this position by the end of the year.

Meat Beat Manifesto ripped out a great set.  Jack rapped off smoothly while
diddling with the sequencer.  Amazingly enough, the lights we had working were
really really good.  There was a flower scan that was sound operated, but
seemed to act as if it was operated by a human.  On the songs that it was on,
it always ended up shining down upon Johnnie in perfect form.

No bands did encores.  I don't think they did them anywhere.  Dave Kendall
jumped on the stage and thanked everyone for coming.  Tony Fletcher wanted me
to finish the set, but I needed to setup my equipment.  Everyone was too busy
taking things down to give me a connect, so Tony apologized for it, despite
Kendall announcing the fact that XDZebra would be playing next.  I told Tony
not to worry about it, but to remember me when I came to New York next.  He
looked incredulous and said, "Pete did you really think I'd forget you?"

When I was cleaning up, I found Phil Hartnoll staring at me while I was taking
down our "Taste" t-shirts.  "Pete, could I have one of your shirts?"  I think
that was the most memorable part of the night.  I gave him two (of course) and
he got us Orbital shirts.  Phil joked that him and Paul would wear them
whenever they had their picture taken, but I was just happy to know that this
band that I held in such high regard would remember me as a friend, and not as
a fan.

Despite our inexperience, the crew and bands had a great time.  The tour
promoter told me that he would recommend us to anyone and everyone.  He said
that there were a lot of jerks out there and we were one of the few cool
capable people.  He said that lots of people would be glad that there was
someone in Salt Lake that they could deal with.  As I was helping the sound
engineer load stuff on the elevator, he said he would recommend us around
England.  He stated that Sheep on Drugs were going to start a tour and they
played for almost nothing for a great show.  He said he'd get us in contact
with them.

When all was totaled up, I had lost $2500 on the night.  Short time of
promotion, a Wednesday night, and Dead or Alive lip-synching four blocks down
had contributed to the factors.  What was even more depressing was when I
arrived home at 5:30 from packing and cleaning up the club, someone had left a
really mean message on our voice mail.  He told me, in between obscenities,
that we didn't know how to throw a rave and we shouldn't be throwing raves in
public places.  He said we should "fucking get our fucking act together in the
future."  He recommended that we should check out the "scene where it is
happening in San Francisco and other places."  This same person had been
outside the club arguing with one of the bouncers.  Him and ten people refused
to pay the $15 to see the show because it wasn't underground enough.  I never
made any pretense of it being a rave.  On the hotline I had clearly stated that
it was our first "concert."  I wish it could have been a rave, but it would
have had to have been on a weekend and the bands certainly would have had to
have more time.  They were stretching things as it was by going to 1:00AM.
On top of that, I had completely shafted the "modern music" station.  Although
they had wanted to get in on it, I tried to keep it as underground as I could.
We didn't even put anything on the club's marquee.  I guess I need a little
tougher skin when assholes show up, but it still hurt a lot.

The light company ended up giving us everything for free.  They stated that it
was their fault that things hadn't worked.  Even though I felt that what we had
working was better than adequate, I wasn't going to turn down $500.  This did
bring the $2500 loss down to $2000.  I was able to get a low interest loan from
my bank to pay that off.  I'm not discouraged at all about the future.  Give me
a weekend, a decent band, and plenty of time and I'll rip a hole in the other
promoters here.  John and I both decided that we would try to do more and more
simpler, smaller raves, rather than growing bigger and bigger each time.  If we
did a concert seperate from a rave, we would go all out on advertising and make
sure that everyone knows.  The club owner was completely nice to us, and has a
basement we might be able to use as well.  So we're down, but not dead.  A lot
of contacts were made as well as some really good friendships.  All in all, I'm
still glad I did it.  Orbital and Meat Beat said they would return next year
and there's only one person they'll work with, me.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 12:21:03 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 12:10:23 -0800
Subject: Raving formed from a vacuum?

| > Hippies were a product of vietname and 50's era conservatism.  Rave
| > culture is not a product of anything so grand and sharp in focus.
| 
| True.

Really?  Is it that much of a stretch to see rave culture as a reaction
to twelve years of the unprecedented selfishness and mean-spiritedness of
Reagan/Thatcherism?  Maybe there's no Vietnam going on, but the 60's didn't
have the backdrop of issues like AIDS and mass homelessness either.

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 12:42:40 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:31:27 -0800
Subject: Weekend Cares and Woes

Sorry about the somewhat garbled earlier message.  There was a news report
on KRON last night to the effect that the Petaluma cops had carried out an X
bust to the tune of $1 milion street value.  BTW, they did have some of
their facts straight such as a street price of $20 per hit.  Anyway, I was
suggesting that there may a crackdown imminent, so play carefully, friends.
Some indoor raves are cool; however, I wouldn't include the Hall of Justice,
the county gaol, Vacaville or San Quentin among my fav venues.  It would be
a good idea to be a bit paranoid for awhile, at least with strangers.
Caringly yours,

Paul

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 13:05:56 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:40:54 -0800
Subject: Re:  Raving formed from a vacuum?

Having come of age in the late 60s, I have to agree with Mykl G's post that
raving has not developed in a vacuum.  The mindless and mindnumbing greed of
the 80s has finally caused a reaction. The threat of nuclear destruction may
have abated, but we all must deal with the notion that we can be killed by
one act of lovemaking.  Not to mention crime and wanton violence.  Speaking
of the latter, the brother of the retiring police chief in DC became
homicide victim #401 for 1992 in that city.  I just hope that raving will
provide us with a caring alternative to the chaos that we seem to be falling
prey to.
Hopefully,
Paul R.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 13:06:21 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Fri, 20 Nov 92 12:41:31 PST
Subject: Re: ORBITAL CD...SPIRITUAL !

REPLY TO 11/20/92 06:34 FROM deb9@po.cwru.edu: ORBITAL CD...SPIRITUAL !

there]s a uk remix of chime on wax that really deepens my mind (by
orbital) for the most part, they are one of my favorite bands. but
they]ve done some shit to. like any of us haven]t

anyway, here]s the deep track o the month: stella by jam & spoon.
it]s a wax single (belgium) and it seems like they put a delay on
the 4 to a bar bass beat, but a very short one like a slapback. it]s
insane. i wish they had panned the slap back to it would go left to
right or right to left on the channels. but if it did that i
probably wouldn]t leave my house again.

pat

To:  deb9@po.cwru.edu
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 13:07:10 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Fri, 20 Nov 92 12:50:16 PST
Subject: whoops - jam & spoon

whoops, i made a mistake. the jam & spoon track is my first
fantastic. but i like stella too.

oh, does anyone know why after a while vinyl can get this really
high pitched squeaks in the grooves.

pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 13:10:38 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 12:59:21 PST
Subject: Re: Weekend Cares and Woes

Were I Paul Richard, I might have said this:
> 
> Sorry about the somewhat garbled earlier message.  There was a news report
> on KRON last night to the effect that the Petaluma cops had carried out an X
> bust to the tune of $1 milion street value.  BTW, they did have some of
> their facts straight such as a street price of $20 per hit.  Anyway, I was
> suggesting that there may a crackdown imminent, so play carefully, friends.
> Some indoor raves are cool; however, I wouldn't include the Hall of Justice,
> the county gaol, Vacaville or San Quentin among my fav venues.  It would be
> a good idea to be a bit paranoid for awhile, at least with strangers.
> Caringly yours,
> 
> Paul
> 


The Chron today said they snagged 90 POUNDS of X from these guys.
Estimated value 1.2 million wholesale, not street value.  The big
tipoff came when a cop pulled one of the people over for speeding and
noticed suspicious documents.  They evidently had a 55 gallon drum
full of some propene which sounds similar to safrole to me.  A 55
gallon drum of safrole would cost a lot... at least around several
hundred if not a thousand dollars so these guys have probably been
in business for a while.  Note that the chronicle was pretty
accurate... the only bad thing they said about MDMA was that the long
term effects are unknown, which isn't even a lie. :)

They also barely mentioned raves at all.

Those guys are screwed.  All tipped off by a traffic ticket.


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                        this line is not secure
power                   force                   motion                drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 14:49:09 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 13:39:01 PST
Subject: mistake...

i have on it good authority that ascent is tonitE, not saturday!  could be
wrong, but i don't think so. :)

i'm bored:  try this on your UNIX systems, kiddies -

            from vi command line enter :1,$ s/e/E/g

hee hee.

i told you i was bored!

-mark. q8) 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 15:22:44 1992
From: awd@eng.sun.com (Alex Davidson)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 13:23:53 PST
Subject: Re: whoops - jam & spoon


the jam and spoon track is "my first fantastic F.F."

......don't ask :)

-Alex






> From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 12:33:30 1992
> To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
> From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
> Subject: whoops - jam & spoon
> Content-Length: 234
> X-Lines: 9
> 
> whoops, i made a mistake. the jam & spoon track is my first
> fantastic. but i like stella too.
> 
> oh, does anyone know why after a while vinyl can get this really
> high pitched squeaks in the grooves.
> 
> pat
> 
> To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU
> 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 15:26:36 1992
From: tahl@tfs.com (Tahl Milburn)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 15:30:04 PST
Subject: Re:  manifesting manifestos

Sorry, but it seems quite innocuous that we have a manifesto.  Personally, 
I'm neither for it or against it.  But I don't subscribe to the idea that it
puts handcuffs on us.  Maybe I don't understand why labels or definitions 
_must_ limit anyone or anything.  They only do so if you recognize these 
words or ideas as limits.  I would propose that people limit themselves more
than the symbols and ideas that float around them do.

At this point, I think it would be very difficult to talk _of_ the movement.
To stand outside of something and discuss it is very difficult to do until
it's over and done with.  It takes time to see to it in context of the bigger
concurrent social picture; to see what came before it and as a result 
of it.  However, to speak _about_ a movement -- to stand and speak from within
it -- makes a lot of sense.  It not only becomes a legacy for social
historians but it allows us to express ourselves and influence in some way
the outcome of what it is and will become.

A manifesto is about what we think and hope for.  It is not what it is or must
be.  In short, I hope we don't become so afraid of doing something that will
restrict, bind or commit us that we become a powerless generation. 

Tahl
 



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 15:32:53 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 14:54:10 PST
Subject: ???

>| > Hippies were a product of vietname and 50's era conservatism.  Rave
>| > culture is not a product of anything so grand and sharp in focus.
>| 
>| True.

>Really?  Is it that much of a stretch to see rave culture as a reaction
>to twelve years of the unprecedented selfishness and mean-spiritedness of
>Reagan/Thatcherism?  Maybe there's no Vietnam going on, but the 60's didn't
>have the backdrop of issues like AIDS and mass homelessness either.

>- MykL G

Ya, I guess we have more to deal with in "quantity" and almost as much
in "quality" of problems, now that I think about it.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 16:24:23 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:16:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Raving formed from a vacuum?

First of all, I've never believed or claimed that rave was overtly
political, and I doubt that it ever will be.  It clearly isn't about
politics on the level that most of us understand the term, unless you
stop and consider that the politics that really matters most is how
we treat the people close to us in our lives, and people we come into
casual contact with.

Notice that I said "a reaction to the selfishness and mean-spiritedness"
of the 80's, not to any specific social problem -- consciously or
(more likely) unconsciously, the ethos of kindness, respect, and affection
shown by ravers is a direct refutation of the callousness of mainstream
society (I think this may be even truer in Britain, which would
explain why raving first blossomed in that fertile soil).

I'd also point out that the early hippies were not particularly political;
aside from dropping out of the rat race, they were much more concerned
with inner and interpersonal issues.  There was an anti-war movement,
but they and the hippies didn't have a lot to do with one another until
roughly '68, when Abbie Hoffman and Co. rose up and tried to radicalize
the hippie movement and mutate it into the Yippies, which they were only
partly successful in doing.  (Why do I sense that Will P. is going to flame
me here???)

I predict we're going to see a similar evolution here -- some fraction
of the community will decide to take on larger issues than finding a
bust-proof warehouse, but many others won't.  And I'm not coming down on
either side here;  declaring your personal freedom by dancing all night
*is* a valid political statement in this day and age as far as I'm concerned.

It's important to avoid the tendency to view the entire decade of the
60's as a single homogeneous frozen moment in time, when in reality there
was a complex tapestry of social elements that mutated significantly from
month to month.  Just like now.

Watching that old pendulum keep swinging,

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 16:40:05 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:31:48 -0800
Subject: Hip-hop/house synthesis

Hot on the heels of the thread about merging house and hip-hop cultures
(which seems to have died down a bit) comes this flyer:

Wednesday, November 25th - THE UNOFFICIAL BEES-TEA-BOYS (in the form of a
	rebus) AFTER PARTY
	House DJ's Spun, Thomas
	Hip Hop DJ's Sean Perry, Mike Essex
	Live Acts Blackwash, Last to Serve
	Starts 11pm, 540 Howard, SF

Proving that great minds think alike  ;^)

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 16:49:02 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:39:40 -0800
Subject: Kevin's reply

Here's a copy of Kevin's reply to me, which I just responded to above
(I didn't realize it wasn't posted to the list...)

---------- ENCLOSE MESSAGE FOLLOWS ------------
From: kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com (Kevin Goldsmith)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:15:33 -0800
In-Reply-To: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
        "Raving formed from a vacuum?" (Nov 20, 12:10pm)
References: <9211202010.AA27119@netcom2.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.0 10/1/92)
To: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Subject: Re: Raving formed from a vacuum?

On Nov 20, 12:10pm, MykL G wrote:
> Really?  Is it that much of a stretch to see rave culture as a reaction
> to twelve years of the unprecedented selfishness and mean-spiritedness of
> Reagan/Thatcherism?

Actually, yes it is.  Raving is not overtly political in my opinion, and I have
yet to see any evidence to the contrary.  The most political rave-related thing
I have seen were the raves on the capital steps (or wherever they were),
however, they weren't protesting anything more political than laws which made
clubs close earlier (or something like that, I'm not really 100% on it)

> Maybe there's no Vietnam going on, but the 60's didn't
> have the backdrop of issues like AIDS and mass homelessness either.
>
> - MykL G
>
>-- End of excerpt from MykL G

Aids and homelessness are certainly very important issues of our times.
 However, what has rave culture done to express views on these issues?  As far I
can remember, there have been no raves against homelessness, or raves against
aids benefits (there was the one rave for charity, but it was certainly an
exception rather than the rule).  The vietnam war helped to unite and define the
hippy movement (you notice that I said that the vietnam war defined the hippy
movement rather than say that it defined itself).  Aids and homelessness and
raving so far have nothing in common that I have seen.

Kevin

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 17:57:09 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 15:07:16 PST
Subject: meat beat show last night


Last night was the Ultramarine / Orbital / Meat Beat show.  I'm pretty
tired today from it, and I'm not really getting any work done, so I'll
just ramble about it until I wake up....

I started out my evening by going to BPM to pick up some overpriced
CDs.  I got the Wonka Beats compilation CD, a CD of material that the
Future Sound of London has released under different names, and the
Aphex Twin ambient CD.  I have since lent them to my trusty roommate
Jon, so he can let me know which of the CDs are actually worth
listening to.

Then I headed over to Pauline's Pizza, where the SFR pre-show dinner
was happening.  The highlight of the dinner was a booklet of some very
demented art that Niels brought back from NYC.  (Niels -- could I get a
photocopy of that?)  (Randy: send me email.  I lost your address.)

After that we headed over to 520 4th Street for the show.  Jon and I
brought some UVC 12"s and some twitch stuff to give to the bands.
Before entering the club we noticed the tour bus parked next to the
club, so we knocked on the door of the bus.  Some guy with very
short hair and a British accent opened the door.  We were most
interested in finding Jack Dangers, the lead guy from Meat Beat, so we
asked the guy if Jack wasin the bus.  The guy tells us that Jack is out
having dinner with an old girlfriend who he hasn't seen in a long time,
and he probably won't be back for a few hours.  We ask if the other
bands are on the bus.  The guy tells us that Ultramarine is in the club
doing their sound check, but that he himself is one of the guys from
Orbital.  Our completely honest reaction to this was somewhat
underwhelming, since neither Jon or I is a huge Orbital fan.  We gave
them the records and talked to them for about 60 seconds and said good
bye.

We entered the club.  The swank factor of the Trocadero seems to have
tripled since the last time I was there (which was the second Basics,
back in July).  The club now has a backstage area and a
somewhat-removed DJ booth.  The upstairs bar is now closed off and has
windows overlooking the dancefloor.  This area would probably make a
cool chill area during a rave.  (Leigh: that spiral staircase that
offered the cool birdseye view of the dancefloor is now gone.)

We went up to the DJ booth and met Tony Fletcher, the tour DJ.  He's
the main DJ at Communion, which is one of the weekly events at the
Limelight, the biggest techno club in New York City.  He told us that
he already had the UVC 12", but he didn't mention actually liking it.
I asked him what kind of stuff he would be playing, and he said that
between Ultramarine and Orbital he would be playing some slower mellower
stuff, and that between Orbital and Meat Beat he would be playing some
harder stuff.

Ultramarine went on and played some unexpectedly cool low-tempo trancy
stuff.  They were much better than we had anticipated.  After playing
three songs, though, they had some technical difficulty, said a quick
"good night" and walked off the stage.  The crowd made some noise,
though, so the band came back, made a quick fix, played one more song,
and then left the stage for good.  I think they did a terrific job,
given their technical difficulties.  We followed them backstage and met
their drummer.  We talked to him for a while, and he was very friendly
and cool to talk to.  We gave him the records, and he said he would put
them with his stuff on the tour bus immediately because they've had
problems with people stealing things backstage.  He said a whole bunch
of stuff was stolen in Salt Lake City.  (OK, Ashdown, what did you make
off with?)

Next the tour DJ went on and played about an hour of 135-bpm hardcore
techno, the kind of stuff that goes over well on the east coast.  I
wasn't incredibly impressed.  I then realized that if 135-bpm hardcore
is what he considers mellow, I didn't want to know what he considers
hard.  (The average tempo at SF raves is 125 bpm.  I find anything over
140 bpm to be incredibly annoying.)  Also, Dave Kendall from MTV was
interviewing him while he was DJ-ing, which I thought was kind of odd.

Then Orbital went on.  They played all of their singles, and everything
they played sounded exactly like the single versions.  And I don't
think they were really playing much of anything.  Either 90% of
everything was coming from DAT and they were playing some sparse
keyboards on top, or their keyboards were actually playing sequences
and they were playing some sparse keyboards on top.  Either way, it
wasn't that interesting.  And they were on for way too long.  I kept
waiting for them to be over so that Meat Beat could start.

While Orbital was on, the MTV camera crew filmed Dave Kendall at the
turntables, pretending to DJ.  This was quite nauseating.  I really
can't wait to see 120 Minutes this week.

After Orbital finished, the tour DJ went on and played some breakneck
145-bpm hardcore.  Fortunately he was on for less than ten minutes when
Meat Beat finally came on.  They, of course, did a very good show.
There were three people on stage: Jack on vocals, knob-twiddling and
occasional drum pads; a guy on bass; and a drummer (who you could
actually hear).  They played most of the singles from "God OD" to "Edge
of No Control", the rave hit "Helter Skelter", plus stuff from the new
album.  There was definitely a variety, from the slower dubbish tunes
to the harder industrial-ish stuff, to what Niels called "rock anthems"
(i.e. Jack would actually sing).  The arrangements of the songs were
different from the ones I know, and the mix sounded pretty good.
Overall, a great show.  Afterwards we went backstage to meet Jack.  He
was pretty exhausted from the show, so we didn't bug him for too long.




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 22:17:08 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:50:38 PST
Subject: the energizr

my friend mary, who is throwing the energizr has run into a stressful
sitch... the 70 year old man, whom she is renting the unique and unused
space from for the e. has learned what a rave is, and has decided to GO
to the party.  he also said that if he sees ANYONE doing any drug related
activities, he will shut the party down immediately.

she asked me to pass on the word to please do certain things before coming
into the rave, or be as discrete as possible, as (needless to say) there
is a lot riding on it.

btw-  

she has somehow got the same sound system used for the world tour of
Peter Pan which is a seriously kick-ass system!  i hope to see some
sfravers this weekend or wednesday at the energizr.

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 18:34:28 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 11:15:43 PST
Subject: Park thing?

Well the phone number says Sunday, "new location",
and Mykl told me Saturday.  Does anyone know
for sure?  Mykl?

leg of eel

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 18:34:32 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 07:41:28 PST
Subject: Re:  rave culture, luv, /etc :)

	Subject: rave culture, luv, /etc :)
	Status: R


	this latest thread of discussions relating to the 60s, lovE, pEacE, Etc.
	has sparked my interest.  and i was thinking the similarities between 
	rave culture and the 60s.  there has been some talk of how the simim-
	larities between raves and the 60s run deep, but, where i believe it
	is true that there are the similarities between love and peace and the
	'communal gatherings' i believe the futuristic environment and attitude
	(source.code, save the robots, etc.) has a good deal to do with it.

	Q:  how many of us would have been a hippie if we were living in the
	    60s?

	-mark.

Um, well folks, I was there (the 60's) also and at the time, I called myself
a hippie (actually hippies prefered the title Phreaks).  Now I was to
young to experience to initial energy.  I was living in NYC in 1970 and was about 14 years old when I dropped my first A (yes, I'm old enough to be some
of you`s father).  There are lots of similarities, is this unusual?
Just think, if you are 20-25 now you were born during the peak of that  whole
energy, many hippies knew they couldn't do all the work that needed to be done
but they had HIGH HOPES for you guys, their "flower children", the future.
The Punks were your cousins and older brothers and sisters,
they got the shit poured on them as the backlash hit from the 60's and the hippies. The establishment leaned on them hard to keep them from being like
your parents (well, some of you probibly have cool parents).
Ravers are more technologicly aware then Freaks although there were 
Computer Freaks, these were the likes of people who started community
memory.

In a nutshell, If you want to change/save the world hit it with your best
shot while your young, as you get older, society pressures WILL close in
and your purpose, energy and dedication will change.  People like Will P.
are part of a rare breed, we can all learn from what he says, that doesn't
mean that his point of view is always right or that you should believe
him blindly, but he was THERE and is HERE now and that accounts for a lot.
MANY people went to prison, were murdered, killed or maimed in vietnam or
on the streets of our cities so that we can enjoy the level of 
social freedom that we have now.  If we don't carry on where they left off,
we will loose ground (as we have already done!)
I don't know, maybe I'm talking like this cuz I just saw Malcom X and it was
pretty inspiring but sad at the same time,   sometimes preaching Love is
far more dangerous than preaching Hate.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 18:34:44 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 01:10:17 -0800
Subject: Re:  meat beat show last night

Hee hee.  I'm not quite awake either so I'll talk until I am....

>We entered the club.  The swank factor of the Trocadero seems to have
>tripled since the last time I was there (which was the second Basics,
>back in July).  The club now has a backstage area and a
>somewhat-removed DJ booth.  The upstairs bar is now closed off and has
>windows overlooking the dancefloor.  

I had only been in the Trocadero once with the old layout, but I liked 
it a lot more then, because the upper level sorta served an amphitheatre-
like effect that I thought was cool.

>This area would probably make a cool chill area during a rave.  

It did for Whalesong - a little too good, everyone I met in there was
completely uninterested in dancing, all they want to do was lie on the
floor and give and receive backrubs...  but it did shield the sound 
better than any other "chill space" I had been in.

>(Leigh: that spiral staircase that
>offered the cool birdseye view of the dancefloor is now gone.)

The only one that I saw before was still there - in the corner opposite
the entrance?  It was just hidden by a speaker stack this time.

>Ultramarine went on and played some unexpectedly cool low-tempo trancy
>stuff.  They were much better than we had anticipated.  After playing
>three songs, though, they had some technical difficulty, said a quick
>"good night" and walked off the stage.  The crowd made some noise,
>though, so the band came back, made a quick fix, played one more song,
>and then left the stage for good.  I think they did a terrific job,
>given their technical difficulties.  

I was _really_ impressed.  The sounded very much like Renegade Soundwave
on "In Dub" - but I guess this is far different from their sound on their
album.  Each of those three songs was really long, too.

>Next the tour DJ went on and played about an hour of 135-bpm hardcore
>techno, the kind of stuff that goes over well on the east coast.  I
>wasn't incredibly impressed.  I then realized that if 135-bpm hardcore
>is what he considers mellow, I didn't want to know what he considers
>hard.  (The average tempo at SF raves is 125 bpm.  I find anything over
>140 bpm to be incredibly annoying.)  

This was the first time in a while that I had heard stuff this hard - while
it was interesting for a while I got tired kinda quickly too.  Howard and I
could identify at least half the songs, we had them on CD compilations from
over the past 3 years... :)  It wasn't necessarily that I don't like stuff 
this fast, it's just that the song selection/progression was erratic and 
his beat-matching ability, well, just not there.  :(  I mean, there are a 
host of reasons why he may be a good DJ normally and a bad one that night.
Whatever.  Howard and I DID get concerned, however, when he was talking to 
Dave Kendall, there was music going, and NEITHER turntable was playing 
anything....

>Then Orbital went on.  They played all of their singles, and everything
>they played sounded exactly like the single versions.  And I don't
>think they were really playing much of anything.  Either 90% of
>everything was coming from DAT and they were playing some sparse
>keyboards on top, or their keyboards were actually playing sequences
>and they were playing some sparse keyboards on top.  Either way, it
>wasn't that interesting.  

They were actually very interesting to watch.  Well, okay, maybe not
as interesting as Jello Biafra bellowing out the Pledge of Allegiance,
but interesting because I've been toying with the idea of getting some
electronic gear and have no idea how it would be performed.  They had
two sequencers, which meaned that except for two points in the performance
they were able to play straight through without stopping, segueing from
one song into the next.  They had two synthesizers, one Juno and an
Emax II, but for the time that I watched (the whole first half) they
didn't touch a single note.  They twiddled some effects knobs on them.
One of the Hartnoll brothers spent the entire time crouched over their
mixer, twiddling effects sends and pans and such.  I dunno, maybe I'm
easily impressed.  But I don't think any of it was on DAT.  Howard spotted
the Orbital CD on the main mixing board at the beginning of the night, 
though.... :)

>While Orbital was on, the MTV camera crew filmed Dave Kendall at the
>turntables, pretending to DJ.  This was quite nauseating.  I really
>can't wait to see 120 Minutes this week.

Yes, this was VERY interesting.  If 120 minutes says he was mixing that
night.... jeesh.  They also got a shot of him reading some paper, smoking
a cigarette in a very MACHO fashion... *sigh*

>Meat Beat finally came on.  They, of course, did a very good show.
>There were three people on stage: Jack on vocals, knob-twiddling and
>occasional drum pads; a guy on bass; and a drummer (who you could
>actually hear).  They played most of the singles from "God OD" to "Edge
>of No Control", the rave hit "Helter Skelter", plus stuff from the new
>album.  There was definitely a variety, from the slower dubbish tunes
>to the harder industrial-ish stuff, to what Niels called "rock anthems"
>(i.e. Jack would actually sing).  The arrangements of the songs were
>different from the ones I know, and the mix sounded pretty good.
>Overall, a great show.  

Agreed.  I was so tired of standing around that went to the stairwell
towards the back of the club to sit and enjoy the music.  Overall I would
say it sounded less "noisy" than when I saw them 2 years ago in LA - 
i.e. they did less of that distortion-fest Merzbow wanna-be stuff. (woa,
better put my flame-suit on there).  They didn't have as much "stage presence"
as they have had in the past, so I mainly paid attention to the music.
The new stuff didn't work as well for me live as the stuff off of 99% - 
particularly Helter Skelter, Psyche-Out and Radio Babylon.

Overall, it wasn't a "rave", but as a concert it was pretty fun.  

Oh jeez, I haven't babbled like this is awhile on sfraves....  ah well.

	Brian





From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 19:22:33 1992
From: ccat@casa-next1.Stanford.EDU (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 11:32:18 PST
Subject: Groove Kitchen

   **********************************
   Tonight,650 Howard, 2:00 am .....
   Gr*R*O**V*E!K*I*T*C*H*E*N!!!!!!!!
   *********************************

From brycer@well.sf.ca.us Sat Nov 21 20:14:58 1992
From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:13:52 -0800
Subject: Re:  meat beat show last night

I'm really bummed I missed the event the other night;  I was flat in bed
with nasty nasal congestion.  So, in revenge, I went out and bought the
_Halcyon_/_The Naked and the Dub_ EP to get my fix.  Cool EP.  Grrr...germs,
get outta me!

BryceR
TAZ 41
Rave On

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 20:27:25 1992
From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:23:08 -0800
Subject: Thanks, Folks!

Hey, all you ravers:

I just wanted to take a moment to thank you one and all (and a big hand to
Brian, here) for the fun, games and warm welcome I've received here in this
raving virtuality.  It takes a lot for me to keep up; I travel an average of
10 days a month to places that are not on the internet.  It can be a chore
(as I've mentioned before) to download all the mail I've missed and absorb
it.  However, no one has flamed me for 'lurking' a lot in the past.  But now
that I've been around the BA for a couple of weeks, and al caught up and
fresh frozen now, it's been kickin good fun.  

This is one of the friendliest, flame free zones I've touched down in for
quite some time--and I've been kicking around the 'net for 6 or 7 years.  I
sure hope I get to meet all the humanoids attached to the avatars I've been
interacting with for a while now.  Should be a fresh time.

Keep those cards and letters flying on the electron beams of my tube.

BryceR
Temporary Autonomous Zone 41
Sound and ComMotion

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 20:33:36 1992
From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:29:14 -0800
Subject: I take it back: Why can't I buy a good turntable?

This was originally going too be a gripe about the dearth of Technics 1200's
in the BA. . .but I persisted.  My patience has finally been rewarded with a
shiny new 1200 a couple of days ago, and I am once again a very happy raver.
 As I write, I'm listening on the phones to a special edition Altern8 album,
two whole disks of A8--be still my feet.
   These tables are worth the wait/weight!

BryceR
TAZ 39
Gone to the big one. . .

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 22:02:07 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 21:58:16 PST
Subject: live techno


	A couple of people have mentioned that Orbital 
didn't do anything but push buttons while they were
"performing"...as far as live techno goes I _prefer_ this.
It seems so cool to me because it's like how a DJ operates.
He's not performing per se, he's simply manipulating 
hardware, and the idea for the audience is to dance
instead of watch.  I've been extremely disappointed in 
live techno acts so far who actually try to put on a show.
The worst has been Human Resource--they wore silver lame
suits (I don't have an accent to put over the "e" in lame
but it works either way) and tried to rap the "Dominator"
sample themselves. (*shiver*)  On the other hand, the best
by far was 808 State.  They had no stage show to speak of,
except for the DJ friend of theirs from Madchester whose
name escapes me (black guy with dreads) who danced around
in the strobe light.  They were just silhouettes standing
in the fog sliding levers and pushing buttons.  Instead of
annoying me, it struck me as the coolest thing in the world;
I dunno, I think I'm just a sucker for that romantic stoicness
of a DJ--he's completely cool and calm while he's driving this
warehouse full of people insane.  He/she is a badass.
	On the anecdote tip...one time here in LA I was 
watching Doc Martin DJ and he was being, of course, really
calm and stoic. He even looked a little bored.  Then at one
point he completed a really cool mix, looked up pensively, 
then all of a sudden, broke into a smile, ripped his headphones 
off, and started dancing.
	Little things like that are what makes raves worthwhile.
Put that in your manifesto.

	Jim :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 01:09:26 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 1:01:51 PST
Subject: Rules



RE: Rules

 Occasionally, there has been some discussion about how rules constrain 
us, and that raves are a way for people to become aware of these 
constraints, and thereby overcome them. In TAXI's posting, "rules" were  
defined as social protocol, societal values, organized religious dogma, 
the behavioural rules of our parents, and other attempts to influence 
individual behaviour.

 Here's some short shots ( not necessarily related to each other ) about 
rules:

1. The rules don't restrict society as much as they reflect society. 
 Groups of humans always make rules - it's innate. 

2. At the beginning of a person's life, rules substitute for experience - 
 as a person gains more experience, they learn which rules to either 
 ignore or apply , as the immediate environment requires. Raves are a 
 special environment that (hopefully) a "kinder, gentler" set of rules 
 apply. Wether those rules apply in the social environments outside of 
 raves ...

3. I think it's the "job" of each generation to determine which rules 
 still apply, and what new rules need to be created. I think raves are an 
 example of that process in action.

4. There are lots of people who feel that the most ridiculous rule around 
 is the Golden Rule - these are the folks society is trying to control 
 with legal laws, as a matter of self-defense.

6. Most rules are slow to arrive and slow to change. This is mostly a 
 good thing, as the final effects of an innovation can sometimes take 
 years to manifest.


 The above are just my opinions at the moment - I can't quote any specific
references.
 
                        Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 14:08:29 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 13:58:16 -0800
Subject: Re:  rave culture, luv, /etc :)

I certainly must secnd Geoff's comments about preaching love being more
dangerous than hate.  Look what happened to MLK... NTM Bobby Kennedy who may
have been a ruthless little shit earlier in his life, but whose live was
changed for the better by his brother's assassination. (Sorry about the
misspelling!)  Will and I are a few years apart, but we do share a lot of
the values that we learned in the 60s, and I think that both of us are
thrilled to see some of them coming around again and gaining acceptance.

One thing I have seen that distinguishes ravers from the Phreaks:  there
seems to be a greater realization that we can't change society unless and
until we change our individual lives.  One of the mistakes we made, I think,
was to keep our phreak society closed and limited to the few "insiders"
rather than opening up to the rest of the world.  Let's hope that it works
better this time.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 15:29:47 1992
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 15:22:51 -0800
Subject: Tekno Tonite


Heard a wild Euro-Tekno set last nite at "Wild Things."  Colin Dale 
was in the gruv.  This is a real treat, unless you fly across the
eastern water. He'll be spinning a special tonite, Sunday, at church.
(church is the regular sunday nite gruv at DV8.)

Speaking of church, its 2 regular spinners had equally hot sets last
nite at Wild Things, Buck spinning hip/house & funk house and Noel
going Deep.

Wicked must have been cool for the Manchester Mafia folk, as nobody
was at Preston's (back from Central American jungle journey) Groove
Kitchen for Buck's "as the dawn comes" set.  Bet Preston gets it 
together for hardcore dancing.

Alpha-10

See U at church.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 17:51:43 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 17:47:54 -0800
Subject: fwd

>From morris@gnl2.ucdavis.edu Sun Nov 22 17:40:16 1992
Received: from gnl2.ucdavis.edu by soda.berkeley.edu (5.65/KAOS-1)
	id AA01146; Sun, 22 Nov 92 17:40:14 -0800
Received: by gnl2.ucdavis.edu (MX V3.0A) id 22307; Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:08:02 PST
Sender: <morris@gnl2.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:08:00 PST
From: VOODOO CHILE <morris@gnl2.ucdavis.edu>
To: sfraves-request@soda.berkeley.edu
Message-Id: <00964011.204346A0.22307@gnl2.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: As VooDoo Chile rears his ugly head...
Status: RO

	Greetings earthlings, phreaks, ravers, etc.  VooDoo returns from the
depths of lurkdom to toss a few late announcements of upcoming events:
	From the folks who brought you the "higher than heaven" parties:

	CREDO::EyE bEliEvE
		Wed. 25 Nov 11pm to 8pm (21+w/id, sorry kids!)
		King St. Garage and $8
		Spun - Simon - Scott Hardkiss - Spacetime - Special Guest???
	and

	CREDO "join us in our celebration!" 
	with	Jeno - Scott & Robbie Hardkiss - Simon
		$10 cover 21+w/id
		King St. Garage @ 3rd

	Returning to lurkdom....will see you soon...


	-VooDoo


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 18:37:29 1992
From: PGRASSI@scuacc.scu.edu
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:34 PDT
Subject: Jeno & Friends

Jeno will be at Toons this Wednesday along with Spun and Rick Preston.
The cover is $5 all night and goes from 9-2am.  The space is small, intimate
and a great setting to check out the music close up.  The location is 
52 E.Santa Clara St. at 2nd in downtown San Jose. (The Alameda changes into
Santa Clara St. if you follow it off the freeway downtown)  See ya
pgracious

From DZ5401A@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU Sun Nov 22 18:40:49 1992
From: "Douglas B. Zimmerman" <DZ5401A@american.edu>
Date:         Sun, 22 Nov 92 21:07:52 EST
Subject:      Milky-Rave


A report from the Milky Rave (Balt.)

    This is my third rave, and definately my favorite so far. The
groove was quite excellent and I hardly stopped dancing from the time
we arrived (12 AM) till whenwe left (5:30).

    The Milky Rave was a must.Had not attended DEFCON-1 the week before
and a friend of mine, DJ NEROMANCER was performing, fresh from Germany
(A student he is also at American U.). **Special thanks to Thomas the
Technomaster (UMD) for driving ne-raver Susan K. and I
and also bringing a friend back to AU. Forever shall I be indebted**

We had a little trouble finding the rave, but it was soon found,
The atmospher was nice, better then the MASQUERAVE I'd attended a few weeks
pasteven though the crowd was smaller and some of the light effects were
not as brilliant. They were very effective though.

When arrived DJ Bobble was on the turntables. He mixxed in a little of
all, but ended out with some trancy feel grooves. Unlike MASQUERAVE I
immediately was into the feel from the second my body entered the
warehouse. After Bobble came Jason Jinx, whom Id met briefly at Music Now.
"Hardcore." He said was what he liked and he started off with some smooth
feelings. I was worked up faster and faster. At the point he was fully into
his set, My body was uncontrolable and I just moved with the beat, the music
and I as one. Excellent.

Next up was NEROMANCER. he played some incredible trance, most brand new
from Germany. My knees were at this point killing me, but the rest of
my body and my soul would not let me sit down at this point. I continued
to dance unabated.

Josh Wink was next. I did not follow his set as much because my body could not
handle it. Around 5 though he broke out with some hip hop that proved
irresistable to groove to. A definately different experince then dancing to
techno.

An aside: I had much fun and never lost the positive frame of mind
all night. An excellent production. The Gyrobix Anti-Gravity Simulator was
an experience in itself. Spinning around. The lights, the music.
Wish I could have seen Scott Henry, but by then I was well worn.
Ah...beautiful. For now I continue to rest.

Till the next rave...

dz

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 18:47:50 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Sun, 22 Nov 92 18:38:39 PST
Subject: wicked

Wicked:
First: i]m so thrilled i met so many sfravers saturday night at
wicked and dna, pretty much thanks to doom in his stunning SFR
t-shirt. you were all wonderful: nut had some really positive energy
flowing, both michaels were seemed very kind. everyone was loving
the fun. i had a nice chat with howard and had the opportunity to
meet gunther. fantastic. i]m sorry i missed geoff and as always,
good to see you again niels. i think that]s everyone... but i]m sure
i missed one or two, so i apologize. to my horror, however, i found
myself beng extremly shy. i]m not sure why. i think because i had
been out til 4am friday night loading sub-woofers into a sound truck
from a concert i was helping out with on campus and i felt extremly
silly being able to match the names with faces, but not for the life
of me remembering who posted what. do others have that problem? or
am i just slower? also i felt pretty self-conscious about all the
flurry of postings i had been involved in over the past 2 weeks, adn
wasn]t sure if any one had a lingering flame/ opinion.
but i realize now these are all non-rave emotions. and i must strive
to be the best raver i can be, because i]m o.k. excuse me while i go
out to the forest and bang on my drum with joe bob briggs. put my
  nds on the bass cabinet and i shall be healed.

so wicked introduced me to a new sensation i hadn]t felt before. if
i stood at the right point by the speakers, i could feel my brains
bouncing around my skull to the beat of the music (yeah, i know,
brains don]t have pressure sensitive nerve, but menigies (sp?) do -
 so i guess i felt my meniges (sp?) bouncing around). it was pretty
uncomfortable, but like i had to keep doing it. i got there around
1:30 and thought the mix was real strong. but i kept wavering
between finding the camaflouge netting a plus or minus. i think it
went in sink with the visuals. when the visuals were jsut happy
little color things or funny old movies i thought the nets were kind
a hip, but when the visuals were about riots and stuff, i thought
the netting was casting a shroud of gloom. anyway - who did the
visuals? i]ve never seen them with so much violence before. oh well.

i was invited to the girbaud party at carefree, so i thought i]d
check it out and i have this thing for really cheesy ny/nj wailing
diva house, and i heard this track i thought was really funny, but
poorly produced and grooved (madam, there is noooo guest list
tonight). the new expression around is {label whore} i have one of
the t-shirts, i]ve seen a bunch of the hats. it]s a hip-hop thing,
but i think it could make a really great sample with the right
voice.
the term refers to people who will do anything to get free record
servicing and or other label perks. a step beyond the average
schmooze.

but then i left carefree because i couldn]t get with the disco-house
divas like miss champagne king and patti brooks (despite their
talent, the tunes were just shallow) but i had time to invent a new
dance i]d like to call the intellibeam, and what you do is put yput
your hands together, flat palm to palm, and drag your arms around
mechanically to imitate the sweeps of the intellibeam. my friends
and i had fun with it, but then again, we like the garden sprinkler
dance. the dj was trying to be too clever, but his taste in travks
was pretty strong. i have no idea who it was....

anyway thanks to everyone for being cool... wicked was, even if much
of the croud wasn]t and when i left to go to dna i heard i think
jeno pumping out some serious house with old school chunky bass.
that was fun.

hope to see everyone wednesday. i always wear i huge red and black
cat in the hat hat (pat in the hat, da-da-dum) and usually and
overly patterned button down shirt you]d order from someplace like
international male or oaktree.
peace
pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 18:52:33 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 18:44:54 PST
Subject: They're Dinosaurs, We're Mammals!


"They're the Dinosaurs, We're the Mammals!"

 One of the ideas I remember from the counter-culture of the 60's was the 
analogy of "They're the Big, Dumb Dinosaurs, We're the Small, Smart 
Mammals!" . "They" being The Establishment, and "We" being the young 
members of the counter-culture. 

 A related idea was that the new generation was riding an irresistible 
wave of evolution, the implication being that the ideals of the new 
generation would come into fruition by some unstoppable, mystical 
destiny.

 These ideas have been echoed in the statements made by some ravers. For 
example, the "Imaginal Rave" booklet, and some postings here in SFRaves.

 Here's some ideas from me about references to evolution:



1. Physical (genetic) evolution has no innate direction. I don't think 
societal (memetic) evolution has an innate direction either. Just because 
a bad idea has been debunked, doesn't mean it won't find a new home in 
the minds of fresh individuals (ie - racism).

2. By definition, replication success is evolutionary success. No matter 
how powerful, efficient, or beautiful an organism (or idea) is, if it 
can't get itself replicated, it'll be an evolutionary failure. This 
doesn't mean that the organism/idea has to reproduce itself in great 
numbers - it means that it has to reproduce itself in a dependable 
fashion.

3. An organism/idea can be an evolutionary success by finding a 
specialized environmental niche to exploit. It may be that the special 
rave state of mind can only exist by being renewed by raves. The Church 
of Rave?

4. It may be that ravers, as a special sub-set of society in general, 
have the type of mental make-up that is a friendly environment for rave 
ideas, more friendly than the mental environment of "average" people. 
Therefore, trying to bring the rave experience and ideals to the general 
public is fordoomed to failure. 


 Two good authors who have influenced my ideas about evolution are Stephen
Jay Gould (good cop) and Richard Dawkins (bad cop). Gould is an easier read
of the two - mainly because most of his books are collections of his 
essays from "Natural History" magazine. Dawkins wrote "The Selfish Gene",
and he was the inventor of the word "meme" (rhymes with cream ), as part of  
his explaination of how ideas in human culture act like genes in an   
environment. Dawkins' book tends to get very mathematical in places -    
easiest to skip those pages at the first read.

-Nuff for now, more later! (Maybe)



					Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 01:27:24 1992
From: SHALA-KO (technokachina) <sscoen@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 04:21:43 EST
Subject: the stranded sfraver

after looking into the going rate for the the lunaticulous plan i had of 
flying out to sf for one week so i could go to 'the gathering' on new-years, 
and finding that my ticket was going to cost almost $700, i can't do it. i 
would have loved to meet some of you sf<net>ravers, but, another time, as 
they say. 

to those of you who graciously opened their hearts and homes to me, i thank 
you very much for your generosity, and am sorry i could not accept it. 
 
but, i think, all is not lost. i plan to stay with a school buddy in n.y. 
new-years, and i've already got tickets for 'revelation' on the 26th in n.y.,
which is going to be totally gruvy-viberific experience, as many of my fav.
northeast dj's will be spinning. 

i'm keeping my ear to the ground on ne-raves@ for a cool newyears event, 
but as of yet have only heard of one in d.c. 
if anyone out there happens to have connections back here, i'd be most
grateful if you could inquire on my behalf about raves in n.y. between
the 26th and the 3rd.

again, i'm very sorry i couldn't meet some of you, please have an extra-
vibetribe-tripperific time for me this holiday, and i look forward to reading 
all about your experiences.

pEacE, lovE, hugs and kissEs, vElvEt and 40" pinstripEd stovEpipEs...
the santa cruzan raver in cambridge. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To achieve ravelightenment is to live in the most blissful of conscousnesses."
    S         H         A         L         A         -         K         O

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
			      << SHALA-KO >>
shannon coen                << technokachina >>           sscoen@athena.mit.edu




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 08:36:33 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 9:31:00 MST
Subject: meat beat show last night

Mike W:

> problems with people stealing things backstage.  He said a whole bunch
> of stuff was stolen in Salt Lake City.  (OK, Ashdown, what did you make
> off with?)

This is a rather distressing comment, especially since it was only Jack
Danger's boots that got stolen.  I didn't see them at all, but one of the
people who works with me told me that he saw them sitting there all night and
was thinking that they should get moved.  We think one of the club's bouncers
stole them, but weren't about to make accusations.

Then on top of that, Orbital had a banner stolen.  It was rather bizarre that
this happened, since myself and a few other people were the only ones who knew
who Orbital were.  Nobody saw anyone walking out with an enormous banner
either.

Then there was an extension cord, a power strip, and a couple rolls of duct
tape that the bands made off with.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 09:54:14 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 9:47:24 PST
Subject: Re: Rules

Larry Ching:
>Occasionally, there has been some discussion about how rules constrain 
>us, and that raves are a way for people to become aware of these 
>constraints, and thereby overcome them.
 
> Groups of humans always make rules - it's innate. 

Groups of humans alway break rules - it's innate.

The fact that we can endlessly debate unprovable interpretations of
every rule there is should tell us that ultimately, rules are somewhat
undefinable or at least have meaninga that are transient in nature
So we can question whether rules are real or whether they are nothing
more than the manifestations of our minds' attempt to substantiate the
selfvalidating (i.e. circular trap) metarule that declares that rules
rules are things that actually do exist.

---Selfdepreciating disclaimer follows---

For those who are put off by pretentious philosophers, please
know that it is just a hobby of mine.  I shit, piss, eat, fuck,
vomit, sleep, and am as much of an asshole as anyone.  But of
course by saying this I am just illustrating how reflective and
selfaware I am.  This makes me pretentious even about being
pretentious.  Uhh, I better get myself to a rave or I'll have to
get someone to shoot me. :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 11:06:53 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 10:51:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Field TRIP

Tres kool idEa.  But can't we do both x-country and downhill.  I like the
whoosh of downhill, but sometimes really groove on the silence of x-country,
esp when it's snowing.  Luv it when it's soooo quiet you can hear the flakes
strike the ground.  And a rave to boot!!! Yeah, let's do it.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 11:07:44 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 09:56:08 PST
Subject: wicked comments


I'll make this real quick --

Wicked, musically, was amazing.  All four DJs -- Thomas, Markie Mark,
Garth and Jeno -- in that order, played amazing sets.  I think Garth
did a much better job in the 4-6 timeslot than he usually does in the
6-8 timeslot.  If there's ever a democratic rave in which you can vote
for which DJ plays when, I'll vote for Garth for the 4-6 timeslot and
for Jeno for the 6-8 timeslot.

For the most part I had a great time at this rave -- until about 6:30 or
so.  I was up near the DJ setup, watching Jeno do his fantastic set,
when I noticed this guy who looked like he was OD-ing.  He was having
trouble standing up and was sweating profusely.  I went up to him and
asked if he was all right.  No real response, so I figured I'd get him
some water.  I made my way through the crowd to the bar, got a cup of
water, made my wya through the crowd back to the guy, and gave him the
water.  This probably took two or three minutes.  The guy took the
water and gave me a very gracious look, and I figured he would be ok.
Then I wondered: WHY WAS I THE ONLY PERSON WHO THOUGHT IF GETTING THIS
GUY SOME WATER?  There must have been fifty people in the immediate
area around him, yet everyone else just continued on in their own
little world, having a good time.  So much for unity.



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 11:08:28 1992
From: bryanc@stargate.jpl.nasa.gov (Bryan Campbell)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 10:56:09 PST
Subject: Re: Field TRIP


>Shine the x-country skiiing -- let's all rent a cabin and go downhilling
>somewhere's...

  wouldn't you be worried about someone trying to take on a diamond trail, 
whilst "altered"?  BEGINNER on ADVANCED TRAIL == SOMETHING BROKEN!  :)

Bryan C.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 13:34:52 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 23 Nov 1992 08:55:20 -0700
Subject: Nice ta meatcha

Greetings:

It was great to put faces to all the names on SFRAVES at Wicked the other
night.  I had a great time and was really Happy to meet Pat, Gunther and Howard
and meet the two Michaels again.  I met some others too and I apologize for not
remebering your names, Please E-mail me to refresh my memory.

Wicked was very cool I could not believe the new subwoofers they added it was
very intense.  You were right Pat I could feel my brain rattle in my skull too.
 I had a great time but also noticed as another Sfrave mentioned that there
seemed to be some bad attitudes and vibes that were not there previous Wickeds,
anybody else notice that?

I have made tentative plans for a SFrave lunch at my place in Menlo Park (very
close to 101 and Willow Rd.) Wednesday, Dec. 2, everyone is welcomed.  We will
be discussing a possible location for an SFRAVE day rave.  If anyone has any
suggestions on a cool southbay place or would like to help setting up let
Brian, Me or Mark Baldwin know.

Peace and Love

    XXXXX
   X     X
  X  NUT  X   
   X     X
    XXXXX  

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 09:59:18 1992
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@hplnpm.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 09:54:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Field TRIP 


Shine the x-country skiing -- let's all rent a cabin and go
downhilling somewhere's around Lake tAhoE or Truckee. Psychedelic
skiing is where it's at. 

PS: wouldn't it be cool to rent out a lodge on a ski-slope and throw
an all night rave there? (Squaw valley upper or middle lodge for
example?)
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Niels Mayer -- hplabs!mayer -- mayer@hplabs.hp.com
                     Collaborative Multimedia Project
                       Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
                              Palo Alto, CA.
                                   *

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 13:58:47 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 23 Nov 1992 10:17:22 -0700
Subject: RE: Rules

Not to take Lee out of Context read his previous memo about rules:

I generally agree with him except when it comes to the Law of thermodynamics
and Entropy. I firmly beleive that theese laws cannot be broken, but there are
many educated people who dont understand the implication of these laws and
therefore are destroying this planet.

Entropy is basically, "you can't get something for nothing" applied in
scientific terms.  I highly suggest reading the book Entropy by Riffkin, it is
kind of depressing but highly enlightening.  Riffkin applies the third law of
Thermodynamics (Entropy) to every part of life.

NUT
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Lee Fogel on Mon, Nov 23, 1992 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Rules
To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Cc: cynthia@soda.berkeley.edu

Larry Ching:
>Occasionally, there has been some discussion about how rules constrain 
>us, and that raves are a way for people to become aware of these 
>constraints, and thereby overcome them.
 
> Groups of humans always make rules - it's innate. 

Groups of humans alway break rules - it's innate.

The fact that we can endlessly debate unprovable interpretations of
every rule there is should tell us that ultimately, rules are somewhat
undefinable or at least have meaninga that are transient in nature
So we can question whether rules are real or whether they are nothing
more than the manifestations of our minds' attempt to substantiate the
selfvalidating (i.e. circular trap) metarule that declares that rules
rules are things that actually do exist.

---Selfdepreciating disclaimer follows---

For those who are put off by pretentious philosophers, please
know that it is just a hobby of mine.  I shit, piss, eat, fuck,
vomit, sleep, and am as much of an asshole as anyone.  But of
course by saying this I am just illustrating how reflective and
selfaware I am.  This makes me pretentious even about being
pretentious.  Uhh, I better get myself to a rave or I'll have to
get someone to shoot me. :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________

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From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9211231747.AA24471@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Re: Rules
To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 9:47:24 PST
Cc: cynthia@soda.berkeley.edu
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 14:02:39 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 12:37:57 PST
Subject: groove kitchen comments


After Wicked Michael Gold and I headed over to 650 Howard for Groove Kitchen,
which is supposed to run from 2am to 10am, which is sort-of confusing.  Is it
a rave or an after party?  No one seemed to know.

We got there at around 7, and it closed at 7:30 due to lack of people.
It does have potential, though.  I liked the music there (Neon Leon spinning),
and although the crowd was small, it didn't have a lot of the negative attitude
found at the DNA.  If done right, Groove Kitchen could compete with DNA as the
place to go after raves.

Suggestions --

1) Have it open from 6am to noon.
2) Whenever I go to DNA, I feel ripped off because the food is over-priced
   and lousy.  Groove Kitchen could buy fresh fruit at wholesale prices and
   serve it for free.  It would cost them almost nothing to do this.  I'd
   definitely pay another dollar at the door if there was an all-you-can eat
   fruit bar with oranges, pears, etc.
3) Invest in some beanbag chairs and old sofas for the upstairs chill area.

Also, Michael Gold pointed out that one of the things he liked about Groove
Kitchen is that the place is light inside during the day.  When you go to the
DNA, it's dark inside, and it's like retreating into another nightclub.




From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 14:04:08 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 12:50:11 PST
Subject: Re: stella by jam & spoon (was "Re: ORBITAL CD...SPIRITUAL !")


> Pat Dote sez:
> > anyway, here]s the deep track o the month: stella by jam & spoon.
> > it]s a wax single (belgium) and it seems like they put a delay on
> > the 4 to a bar bass beat, but a very short one like a slapback. it]s
> > insane. i wish they had panned the slap back to it would go left to
> > right or right to left on the channels. but if it did that i
> > probably wouldn]t leave my house again.
> 
> This cut is also available locally on Twitch CD-4 (and LP # ??).
This isn't available on Twitch vinyl, only CD.

> Mike-W or Jon-D -- is the twitch mix the same (or similar to) the one
> described by Pat?
It's definitely not the same.  Here's proof:

% diff stella.original.mix stella.twitch.mix
Binary files stella.original.mix and stella.twitch.mix differ

We intentionally did not use a stereo ping-pong delay effect in our mix,
though, because we thought it would be nice for Pat to be able to leave his
house.



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 14:19:25 1992
From: zdross@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 13:45:45 PST
Subject: ???

How is everyone after the weekend, hm?  Good times?  Hope so.

Had a cool time down in Santa Clara seeing Mike's play (The Tempest), a really
good show.  Afterwards Mike threw a party, which we quckly transformed into
a mini-rave (30 people dancing tops).  It was pretty cool to see everyone shakin
it even though they were mostly non-ravers who were there for the beer.  It
worked out pretty well though.  We had a large selection of DJ tapes - Jeno
Garth, Spun, and Pgracious' own mix, and everyone responded well to the music.
I was kinda surprised, since most people outside the scene aren't into rave/
techno music (or so I thought....)

Highlight of the night:  Mike busts out his blinking light on this girl, who
responds coldly to it.  "It's really cool if you're on something,"  Mike tells
her.  Without missing a beat, this guy about five feet away blurts "I am!"
and rushes over to check out the light.  Hilarious.....

Anyway, keep cool and hope to see many of you at Basics on Saturdau

Aside - thanks for a cool Sunday, Leah!
Zak

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 14:33:45 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 14:22:32 PST
Subject: Re: Nice ta meatcha

Were I Stewart, Scott*, I might have said this:
>I had a great time but also noticed as another Sfrave mentioned that there
>seemed to be some bad attitudes and vibes that were not there previous Wickeds,
>anybody else notice that?

The crowd was...interesting.  Most people were really getting into it
(at one point while I was dancing, I was going to mention to Mykl that
it had the makings of a classic party when he looked at me and said,
"Wickeds have been the best parties..." or something like that.)  At
the same time, a lot of the people there were more withdrawn than at
some other events.  Gunther thought there was a lot of 'attitude', but
it seemed to me that people were just being less open than usual.  A
lot of people were hanging out down by the big bass bins (a great
sound system...) and some were really getting in to the heavy bass.
It was really loud... I ran into both Geoff and Niels there and sort
of made a futile attempt to say "hi" but it was pretty much
impossible.

I had a good time, but I left early (about 6) to go to DNA because the
crowd seemed to be getting a little less energetic (At 6!) and I was
ready for a change of pace.  Turns out Scott Hardkiss showed up but we
had to leave before he went on (around 9:30).  Did anyone stay there
later than 10?

Nice seeing everyone at Wicked.

-H-

P.S. Did anyone catch 120 minutes?


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                        this line is not secure
power                   force                   motion                drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 14:51:00 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 14:43:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Nice ta meatcha

>P.S.  Did anyone catch 120 minutes?

I didn't watch it, but someone who did told me there wasn't a single frame
of footage from the show.  Ah well, I was really looking forward to seeing
Gunther's shirt on national TV.  :)

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 14:56:13 1992
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 14:45:16 PST
Subject: did anyone go?

Did anyone go to Lock-In or Ascent?

I heard that everyone at Lock-In was locked into the party until
morning. Basically, once you arrived there was no going back.
Sounds interesting...

Just curious-

Jocelyn

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 15:19:27 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:05:17 PST
Subject: Re: groove kitchen/DNAfterLIFE

> although the crowd was small, it didn't have a lot of the negative attitude
> found at the DNA.  If done right, Groove Kitchen could compete with DNA as the
> place to go after raves.

I have found that most of the "negative attitude" to be around the perimeter
and not on the dance floor areas.  Generally.  The crowd seems to improve
as it gets later.  It would be nice to have another choice though.

> Also, Michael Gold pointed out that one of the things he liked about Groove
> Kitchen is that the place is light inside during the day.  When you go to the
> DNA, it's dark inside, and it's like retreating into another nightclub.

I kinda like the sense of timelessness I get in DNA's dingy darkness. 
The AfterLIFE is certainly not a nice place for chilling out.  I have been
going there lately mainly as a place to get in a few more hours of dancing
before attempting breakfast.

leg of eel

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 15:48:04 1992
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@hplnpm.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:40:18 -0800
Subject: Rave-Ski sans Brew-Ski (was Re: Field TRIP)

> BEGINNER on ADVANCED TRAIL == SOMETHING BROKEN!

This comes from the "take it and think you can fly off tall buildings"
school of thought.

I look on it more like advanced skier on intermediate trail having more fun
than nature had intended. 

I would never recommend flying to someone that doesn't have wings.
The same goes for skiing ...

Yes, it is a very bad idea to crash into someone while skiing. In fact,
some states have laws about skiing that are akin to similar laws while
driving.

Being purposefully vague....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Niels Mayer -- hplabs!mayer -- mayer@hplabs.hp.com
		Looking for a job elsewhere....

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 15:48:46 1992
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.uu.net (P. Couch)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:02:03 PST
Subject: Re: Field TRIP


>From uunet!medisg.Stanford.EDU!sfraves-request Mon Nov 23 13:01:37 1992
>>Shine the x-country skiiing -- let's all rent a cabin and go downhilling
>>somewhere's...
>
>  wouldn't you be worried about someone trying to take on a diamond trail, 
>whilst "altered"?  BEGINNER on ADVANCED TRAIL == SOMETHING BROKEN!  :)
>
>Bryan C.
>

Actually the bunny slopes and blue trails are much more dangerous.
On Double Diamonds, you dodge trees and rocks, pretty much just
inanimate objects. When you are altered and fearless you loosen
up and won't hurt yourself as much.(That's why drunk drivers usually
survive the crashes)
On easy slopes, you have to dodge bozo skiiers that would ski with no rhythm
 and turn randomly and out-of-control skiiers that
are not good enough to go on black runs but want to go fast, as well
as trees and the snow is skiied out. Almost everytime I go on a blue/green
run someone wants to ski into me.
Excuse the outburst, but that's a pet peeve.
For the field trip, I think that cross-country is more fun, since it's
easier for a big group to ski together without being annoying to
themselves or other people. 
I have to do at least 20 days of compulsory free downhill skiing :)
this season, so I'd rather go on a cross-country trip for a change.

P.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 15:52:33 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:46:29 -0800
Subject: call for flyers


	I'm making the call out for flyers now - I will be compiling and 
sending out the calendar on Tuesday night since I'm leaving Wednesday morning
for LA for thanksgiving and will probably not have net access while down
there (unless I can convince my friend at caltech to lend me a password. :)
So anyways, send 'em if ya got 'em!  Thanks.

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 16:04:12 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:57:29 MST
Subject: Re: Field TRIP

> For the field trip, I think that cross-country is more fun, since it's
> easier for a big group to ski together without being annoying to
> themselves or other people. 
> I have to do at least 20 days of compulsory free downhill skiing :)
> this season, so I'd rather go on a cross-country trip for a change.

Well, then the choice is obvious as to where you should all field trip:

	UTAH!

I went skiing in 20 inches of powder last Saturday (John and I went to
celebrate losing $2K, go figure).  It did make me feel a lot better.  We're
planning a New Year's Rave, so why bother with the showdown in SF when there's
only one party going on here (that's worth going to of course :-))?

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 16:11:38 1992
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:04:59 PST
Subject: help: warning: non-rave material

Does anyone know of some interesting places to shop for
second-hand furniture in SF? Since I'm moving there from 
South Bay and since I don't have any furniture, any and all
leads/suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks-

Jocelyn

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 16:36:30 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:12:00 PST
Subject: Rules

Hi Fellow Ravers--

I've enjoyed the comments of Larry, Stewart, 
Scott, Lee et al (who al? et wot?) re rules.
I'd like to remind folks of some of the "rules"
of that great spirit Albert Einstein.  He
believed taht imagination is more important
than facts and that attitude is more important
than knowledge.  In other words, I think, the
part (our view of the universe, say) can be
larger than the whole (that existential throbbing
universe itself).  Indeed, order not only can
but it does rise out of chaos and my consciousness
can and does transcend the very things that create              
and maintain it!  Another great Albert--Hofmann in
this case--is about to have a celebratory occasion:
Bicycle Day 1993, the 50th anniversary of when he
fell off his bicycle after taking in a few mics
of that sacred psychedelic substance that he syn-
thesized in his lab in 1943.  His "problem child"
has proven to be--among other things--a learning
tool par excellence about these very seeming contra-
dictions about "rules" and "reality."  Thank you-all
for the excellent virtual symposium we-all are part-           
icipating in!
World's second most chaotic thinker
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 16:48:24 1992
From: andys@ingres.com (Andrew Sherman)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:37:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: whoops - jam & spoon

> From: awd@eng.sun.com (Alex Davidson)
> Subject: Re: whoops - jam & spoon
> 
> the jam and spoon track is "my first fantastic F.F."
> 
> ......don't ask :)
> 
> -Alex

My pal Ben in London has been going to some "underground" "druggy"
"gay-ish" clubs recently.  One is called Trade, and the other is called
FF. I guess they may be related :-). We live in a global village.

-Andrew


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 16:51:42 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:41:36 PST
Subject: RE: Rules

Were I NUT or Lee, I might have said this:

>[descriptions of the three laws of thermodynamics deleted]

During my [first :)] senior year I was forced to take a yearlong class
called Physical Chemistry which basically amounted to chemical
thermodynamics.  Regarding entropy, the prof. broke the three laws
down as follows:

1st law: You can't win.
2nd law: You can only break even at absolute zero.
3rd law: You can never reach absolute zero.

That assumes that one feels chaotic systems are a bad thing. :)


-H- (obviously bored)


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                        this line is not secure
power                   force                   motion                drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 17:04:35 1992
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:58:38 -0800
Subject: Re: call for flyers 


Found just one of these flyers lying on the floor last night
(probably at Wicked).  It's only two colors, and it's kind
of ugly in a crude way.  So maybe the event could be cool? 

GRASS ROOTS  November 22,  6AM until...  Adonis Kelvin Noel
8th & Gilman, Berkeley   (415) 905-8806

Here's a weekly you don't seem to have on the list: 

UNITY at 174 King St, 11PM-6AM, every Thursday night.  From
Studio X: DJ EFX, DJ Digit, Plus DJ Bill Torain.  Live
Keyboards & Percussion.  "An interactive sonic environment"

And there's a flyer out with more information on Pilgrim's
Pie than you had listed last week: 11/27, Carlos, Digit,
EFX, Christophe & Dutch.  Darwin Chamber Live.  Free pie for
breakfast.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 17:08:46 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:02:37 PST
Subject: Re: HUH?...WHAT?

REPLY TO 11/23/92 12:49 FROM ebh@mink.mt.att.com "Ed Horch": Re: HUH?...WHAT?

2 neat notes on the subject of hearing loss.
a. these scientist people went to a mall near a high-school up by me
(names witheld to protect the incompetent). and they got the
high-school kids to load up the car stereos with all types of music
really loud. and they concluded that low bass is neutral, and
possibly healthy for the ears, while high ends were harmful. they
noticed the bass beats of hip-hop and contrasted them to the french
trumpets of classical music. personally, i think the most harmful
music is classic schlock followed by country, then jimmy buffet,
then modern schlock. although i heard {why don]t we get drunk and
screw and brown-eyed girl} in a row on the coffe house]s jukebox on
campus at 8am. this made me want to throw off my time spent as a
vegetarian and war protester and really do something down right
nasty to jimmy 666 belezlebub (sp?) buffet.
just say no.

2. another snipet: in a collection of underground science fiction,
called semiotext sf (the  same people who do all that TAZ,
baudrillard, virillo POPOMO stuff). anyway, the drug in one of the
stories is a wire connected to the back of the skull that has {bone
music} playing in it, you don]t hear it. you feel it. and speaker
puppies once again proove reality is like a gallup poll, plus or
minus 2% away from fantasy.

To:  ebh@mink.mt.att.com
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From dhchung@us.oracle.com Mon Nov 23 17:11:43 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:11:08 PST
Subject: Re: call for flyers

I'd stopped at UNITY with some friends last week before DEEP FAITH,
and it was just about empty.  In fact, the eight of us were a majority
of the "crowd".  This was at about 1 am; I wouldn't expect it to be
continuing at this rate.

Deep Faith was real nice though (I don't remember if anyone posted about it);
good crowd, fresh space, Hardkisses and Jeno spun last week.  I think
it's supposed to be weekly but I don't know if it'll be on this week
(Thanksgiving).  I saw a flyer with a phone number for it, but I don't
have it with me.  So anyway, check it out!

-Derek

________________________________________________
 Derek Chung			Oracle Graphics	
 dhchung@oracle.com 		  (415)506-6195

-------------------------
>From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 17:02:55 1992
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To: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>,
    sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: call for flyers 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:46:29 -0800.
             <9211232346.AA15652@soda.berkeley.edu> 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:58:38 -0800
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Status: R


Found just one of these flyers lying on the floor last night
(probably at Wicked).  It's only two colors, and it's kind
of ugly in a crude way.  So maybe the event could be cool? 

GRASS ROOTS  November 22,  6AM until...  Adonis Kelvin Noel
8th & Gilman, Berkeley   (415) 905-8806

Here's a weekly you don't seem to have on the list: 

UNITY at 174 King St, 11PM-6AM, every Thursday night.  From
Studio X: DJ EFX, DJ Digit, Plus DJ Bill Torain.  Live
Keyboards & Percussion.  "An interactive sonic environment"

And there's a flyer out with more information on Pilgrim's
Pie than you had listed last week: 11/27, Carlos, Digit,
EFX, Christophe & Dutch.  Darwin Chamber Live.  Free pie for
breakfast.



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 17:29:51 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:29:24 PST
Subject: Psychedelic pskiing

Oh yeh...
Neil sez let's go downhill psychedelically....
I did my share of psychedelic psledding about
25 years ago and psurvived, but it reinforced
my belief in goddess....
More about THAT if you really want hoary stories.
(Check that in your Funk & Wagnalls first befoer
you send any flames all you loust sfraver spellers!)
World's second oldest wiseass
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 17:54:09 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:14:45 PST
Subject: toons/energizr

this is an invitation for any south bay sfravers to hook up
for a night of non-stop fun!  this wednesday jeno, garth and spun
+ rick preston will be spinning at toon in sj (address is on 
rave guide).  after toons, i'm going to the energizer, and so is
rick...(but he won't be playing till later).

if any sfravers want to meet at toons (it's fun!) i'll be there...
(Scott, how bout you?)

-mark.

oh yeah, there's spozetuh be a kewl after-party, too.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 17:57:00 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:23:43 PST
Subject: RE: Rules

> 1st law: You can't win.
> 2nd law: You can only break even at absolute zero.
> 3rd law: You can never reach absolute zero.
>

sounds like a winning attitude...  q8o

-mark.  d8)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 18:18:58 1992
From: "ANN-MARGARET LITTLE" <LITTLE@cellbio.stanford.edu>
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:11:00 PST
Subject: Au Secours !*#!!*!

Does anyone out there have an address/information
on reputable psychics in the SF/ Bay area ??

Any information appreciated

Thanks A-M 



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 19:19:30 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 19:10:32 PST
Subject: RE: Rules

Were I Mark Baldwin, I might have said this:
> 
> > 1st law: You can't win.
> > 2nd law: You can only break even at absolute zero.
> > 3rd law: You can never reach absolute zero.
> >
> 
> sounds like a winning attitude...  q8o
> 
> -mark.  d8)
> 

I know... it was a good mood-setter for that class, too.  P-chem is
like a weed-out class for chemists, but it doesn't happen 'til the Jr.
or Sr. year.  Ahhh, all behind me :}

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                                the un-chemist
power                   force                   motion                drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 07:46:52 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 5:57:06 PST
Subject: Who's Most Chaotic? Asks Lee

Hi Folx--

Lee Fogel questions my salutory line, viz
"world's second most chaotic thinker," in-
quiring who's the first!  Well, in my rule
book it's Ralph Abraham of UCSC, one of the
grand poobahs of chaos theory, much of which
in many--even arcane--ways is related to our
beloved activity, lifeforce and at worst obses-
sive pastime, raving.  Now, do we have to go
into that?  I bet Larry could elucidate some
of that stuff far better than I.

Any of you know or know of Ralph?  Is Billy
Rainbow out there?

Fractal's second zoomiest raver,
Will


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 07:48:05 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 07:30:19 PST
Subject: Aggro at Wicked

Well once again the Party Posse does it up right.
I had a wonderful ExperiEncE as did my friend, Nzinga who had
her first rave ExpEriencE at Wicked.  She had to take her son to a
socker match so she left at 5.  I continued as always.  I saw Niels
and MikylG and some others that I recognize by face but can't connect
logins to.  Brothers and Sisters, if I don't recognize you don't
take offense, just reintroduce yourselves to me, sometime my neurons
take alot of training.  Funny, I don't remember seeing Howard or Gunther
but I was seriously having a good time so sorry if I didn't speak.

Yes Folks, there was a lot of "attitude" at Wicked last night, I was
on the end of a little of it, more about that  later.  There was at least
one fight which I didn't see.  I think the Party Posse has overexposed/promoted Wicked just a little too much. I don't mind new people
at a rave, that's what it's all about, but Its like a story about frat guys
(If you are a frat guy, forgive the comming bigotted joke/statement)
One or two at a party seem to be realy nice fellas, three or four get kinda
loud, five and above and they take over and your party becomes their party.
Well I think we have to keep a delicate balance between people who will be
"sending" the vibe and new people who are there to experience what it is.
This is NOT elitism!  At Russian River, Mellissa and I ran into some real
HardCore Vatos who were BLOWN AWAY by the Vibe, they came in as Gangsters
and LEFT as Gangsters but they didn't ACT like Gangsters at the rave, they
said "Hey, you guys are like into PEACE!, That's Kool".
I've seen the same thing happen at a previous Wicked, where some 
tough Homeboys came in, checked the place, stood over in the corner
in perfect B-Boy stance for 1/2 hour or so, I want by them an hour
later and they were grooving on the dance floor, by 5 am
I saw the same Homeboy seriously throwing down some moves on the dacefloor,
Garth had completely tranced him out!  He got it!  We need to keep the Vibe
alive if we are to keep this thing alive.

Now for the story, Jeno played an awsome set and as he is bringing everyone
back to earth, I run into MoonPup and his girlfriend by the bar.  We start 
talking about stuff when this guy comes out of nowhere, with his right eye
punched in, he says that he was sitting or something on the floor and that
I kneed him in the eye.  My first reaction was that, shit, maybe I did while
going-off (although in my entire rave career, I have NEVER, accidentally
or otherwise seriously hit anyone on the dancefloor, I am large but I'm 
very aware of where my body parts are at all times while dancing) I was
still fEEling It a little so my initial response was to try to help him.
(In retrospect this seemed to confuse him, and maybe defused the situation,
I don't know) MoonPup kept telling me not to worry about it, and finally, it
sunk in what was happening.  Later he told me that he had had a run-in with
this guy and his "friends" outside, it seems that the same one that stepped to
me had spit on someones car/van, for no reason, the spit flew off and hit
moonPup's girlfriend, who protested, I'm not sure what exactly happened next
but It seemed like these guys were out to get MoonPup and were waiting around
for him to leave, I walked into the middle of the drama. I pretty sure that
MoonPup didn't hit him, but this guy  had obviously been in a fight not to
long ago and was looking for another one. Anyway someone (from the list?)
was there who had beautiful pictures of the Berkeley FMR including a great
one of Me, Brian and Allen together.  Anyway we are standing outside and 
these  guys are eying us like they are trying to decide whether to try us or not.  I lived in Bed-Stuy for 10 years and I know a "bank" comming (I think
you might call it tripple-team, jumped,etc) when I see it, so we all agree to just get into MoonPup's truck and split.  My car was parked two blocks away and
I didn't want to tempt fate.  Both MoonPup and I feel that now we have to watch out for these guys which sucks.  I mean what is it comming to if you can't
feel safe at a rave?

So what do we do about all of this?  I tell you folks, if we don't work 
together to keep this scene alive, it will fall or be ripped apart.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 08:52:51 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 8:43:57 PST
Subject: Re: Who's Most Chaotic? Asks Lee


 Will Penna wrote :

> 
> Hi Folx--
> 
> ... chaos theory, much of which
> in many--even arcane--ways is related to our
> beloved activity, lifeforce and at worst obses-
> sive pastime, raving.  Now, do we have to go
> into that?  I bet Larry could elucidate some
> of that stuff far better than I.
> 
. 
. 
. 

> Fractal's second zoomiest raver,
> Will
> 
> 

 Chaos theory ? UhUh - won't touch that! ( I personally haven't done enough
reading in it, and what I've read I haven't absorbed yet).

				Larry Ching 


 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | "Listen carefully to the music, and dance like a flower"                |
 |  ---> Body Of Light:"Dance Like A Flower"                               | 
 | "I AM THE GENIE OF THE TOOTHPASTE!"                  larryc@netcom.com  |
 |  ---> The Darwin Chamber:"Genie Of The Toothpaste"                      |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 09:19:43 1992
From: kxbehni@srv.pacbell.com (Keyvan Behnia)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 09:12:42 PST
Subject: Re: happy mondays


Latest word

Mondays are taking two years off after their current UK/Europe tour ends.
They are not gonna tour on this side of the pond. Too much, Too Fast, Too Soon.
Or for you physicists The Buster Douglas rule.

Nevertheless, their new single features their long due cover of "Stayin Alive". It is ...
erm, pretty muddy. But the remix of "Sunshine and Love" is a lot better than
the one on the El Pee. 

Keyvan

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 10:50:06 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 10:15:58 PST
Subject: NON-RAVE QUESTION



Does anybody out there know anything about a disorder that affects
certain people who are sensitive to the lack of sunlight.

i.e. in winter months they get really depressed and have low mood
swings.  I know there is a clinical name for this disorder and that
an apparent effective treatment is exposure for several minutes/hours
a day to light of the appropriate spectrum/wavelenght.
Anyone who has any leads/articles/knowledge please mail to me
at
		geoffw@nexsys.net  AND
		geoffw@carlyle.com

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 10:50:26 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 24 Nov 1992 10:32:39 -0700
Subject: RE: groove kitchen/DNAfterLIFE


>p.s. Did you put on a giant Grand Poobah hat later at wicked?  I quickly
>walked by someone with one but I couldn't tell who it was.  Cool hat.

Yes that was me.  I was Fred Flinstone for halloween and I made that hat to go
with the outfit.  I thought the hat would be a good rave hat too.  As I hoped I
got a lot of laughs and smiles from it. 

 Peace and Love


    XXXXX
   X     X
  X  NUT  X   
   X     X
    XXXXX  



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 11:47:42 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 11:31:58 -0800
Subject: Re: call for flyers

Last I heard, Deep Faith is definitely on for Thursday night.  I'll second
Derek's comment on how good the last one was -- it takes place at
150 Folsom, just a block or two from the waterfront.

Good reason not to get *too* stuffed on Thanksgiving!

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 12:10:54 1992
From: Richard Balcon <rbalcon@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 12:03:36 PST
Subject: House Music - New Record Store


Fellow Partiers,

I am just in the process of opening a Record store in San Francisco to sell
dance music. Our opening date will be Saturday the 28th November. I will
selling everything from Acid Jazz, Groove, Acid House, Tribal, Trance to some of 
the more Ambient Techno, although the amount of Hardcore Techno will be small 
since it is not really my style. I will be selling both vinyl and CD's, mostly
import or small independent labels. The address for the shop is:

593 Haight Street (@ Steiner),
S.F. , CA 94117,

tel 626-6995 fax 626-5206

If you have things you are looking for please don't hestitate to write me and we
will see what we can do. Otherwise any contacts or labels you feel should be
represented would also be gratefully recieved.

Thanks,

Richard

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 12:18:04 1992
From: VOODOO CHILE <morris@gnl2.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 12:10:56 PST
Subject: Jeez! Whut rules??

Umm... Pahdun me, Bobba.  But i'm not aware of any theoretical derivations 
of the laws of thermodynamics based on first principles.  They are essentially
empirical laws based on experience and observation - kinda like 'what goes up 
must come down'.  After all, entropy is just the measurable disorder in a 
system and generally as the absolute temperature drops the systems response 
to probes increases.  Uh oh, this has become much too arcane.  TAXI, are 
you responsible for all of this???
	Hmmph, humbly creeping back to lurkdom...

'dese boots wuz made for funkin' Chile

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 12:36:07 1992
From: VOODOO CHILE <morris@gnl2.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 12:29:19 PST
Subject: re:re:Jeez!

Uncle Dan,
	dis iz ezzactly my point.  As the crytals are cooled their response
function increases to a point where you are making measurements which tend 
to quantify your disturbance of the crystal more than an intrinsic property 
of the crystal.  i might mention that these crystal studies also unearthed 
negative absolute temperatures.  Yuck!  
	Hey, my lurking has even become chaotic!

	-VooDoo

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 12:36:48 1992
From: uncle dan <dan@home.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 12:21:01 -0800
Subject: Re: Jeez! Whut rules?? 


Voodoo Chile sez:
Umm... Pahdun me, Bobba.  But i'm not aware of any theoretical derivations 
of the laws of thermodynamics based on first principles.  They are essentially
empirical laws based on experience and observation - kinda like 'what goes up 
must come down'.  After all, entropy is just the measurable disorder in a 
system and generally as the absolute temperature drops the systems response 
to probes increases.  Uh oh, this has become much too arcane.  TAXI, are 
you responsible for all of this???
	Hmmph, humbly creeping back to lurkdom...

uncle dan sez:
That's what I thought too, until I started tutoring engineering students
who were studying statistical thermodynamics... Much of this stuff is in
fact now based on things like the vibrational modes of atoms in a crystal
lattice, etc... I was surprised myself!

-uncle dan

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 12:38:09 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 12:28:48 -0800
Subject: The Horns of a Dilemma

Dear Rave Family:  I have discovered among you a warm and caring group of
friends whose collective wisdom I have learned to admire and respect.  So,
I'm turning to you for advice about a quandary in which I find myself.  I
apologize in advance for the length of this message; feel free to skip it if
you are so inclined.



     About 10 months ago I discovered raving and immediately became enamored
of the scene, including dancing all night, altered states, and the feeling
of love, joy, energy and acceptance that I found.  Unfortunately, my partner
of over 11 years does not share my enthusiasm.  In talking over the past few
months, I have learned that he dislikes house and techno intensely, and more
distressingly, that he sees drugs as merely an escape that in addition to
being illegal, are dangerous both physically and psychologically.  He also
feels bereft when I am out raving, despite his acknowledgement that I will
indeed return in the morning.  Although he hasn't directly threatened to end
our relationship over this issue, it is clear to me that the ultimatum is
not far away.  As he put it to me last night:  I don't understand how you
can continue to do something that threatens our relationship.



     I want to have my cake and eat it too :) !!  I've invested a lot of
time and trouble in building a life together with Rob, and I don't want to
see that go down the drain.  On the other hand, I find in raving a community
that I don't see in my everyday life, and I know that I would resent having
to give it up.  We have talked about some compromises -- not raving as
often, not staying out all night, giving up X.  Of the three, I can only see
the first as a viable choice for me.  I don't have to stay out all night,
but leaving early misses much of the energy of a good rave.  I have
certainly learned that I don't need chemicals to have a good time, but I
would be dishonest if I "promised" that I would never ingest chemicals
again.



     So, maybe some of you have had to deal with a spouse who isn't into the
scene.  Or maybe some of you have found a way to explain the importance of
raving without sounding like you have joined a cult or hang out with
unproductive druggies.  Anyway, I would appreciate any thoughts you might
have on the subject.  If you think your thoughts might help others besides
me, please feel free to post them publicly.



     Thanks for your love and care.  Hope to see you all at Basics on
Saturday.  Peace, rave on!



     Paul

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 12:51:57 1992
From: uncle dan <dan@home.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 12:41:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Jeez! 



Voodoo sez:
Uncle Dan,
	dis iz ezzactly my point.  As the crytals are cooled their response
function increases to a point where you are making measurements which tend 
to quantify your disturbance of the crystal more than an intrinsic property 
of the crystal.  i might mention that these crystal studies also unearthed 
negative absolute temperatures.  Yuck!  
	Hey, my lurking has even become chaotic!

	-VooDoo

uncle dan sez:

OH NO! We've just discovered Heissenberg's Uncertainty Principle! 8)
(I knew we were going to be in trouble...)

-uncle dan

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 13:27:48 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 13:12:13 PST
Subject: Re:  The Horns of a Dilemma

i have the same problem at my place.  i still live with a recent
ex-girlfriend that i still care about, though we never agree about
anything.  (that's the not the same as yours exactlcy, but the
rave part is...)

when i first heard house music years ago, we both took an anti-stand
against it.  it was disco... !!  we were into industrial!! =B^`

but as i listened to better techno and trance and went to a few good
raves (by the way, my friends and i used to go to "wharehouse parties"
YEARS ago [like 6 7 and _8_ eight years ago where we'd dance to 
industrial and techno/house and drop A/E...they just weren't called
raves then...) and now i can't get enough...but my ex-girlfriend
HATEHATEHATEHATES techo/raves and anything/body associated with them.

the best advice that i can give you is to introduce a couple good-hearted
rave friends of yours to Rob.  Invite them over, and let him see what
cool and good people they are.  Introduce a couple more...have one of
them suggest that you pop in a cool tape, one that he might be open to.

a lot of timez in relationships, a mate will be more open to new ideas
when it comez gradually.  


other than that...i feel for you ... most of my friends (industrial,etc.)
say thing like..cute rave hat mark... hey mark, you're lookin' pretty
house... oh, are you a raver now.... you really like that stuff ...
what did but that for/you paid HOW much for that?  ETC!!!!!

the funny thing is, guess where i see them after hearing this for a while?

you got it...be patient, and hope.  i'll hope too.  maybe rob'll get it.

-mark. d8)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 13:46:50 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 13:04:50 PST
Subject: basics on saturday


Whose planning on doing Basics this weekend?

Rumor has it that it's going to be at that same metal foundry in Livermore
where Vision and Basics were in September.  Does anyone know if this is
definitely true?



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 14:25:15 1992
From: VOODOO CHILE <morris@gnl2.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 14:19:16 PST
Subject: re:Jeez!

Umm... i tink dat the error bars exceed the Heisenberg limit and we've just 
discovered the limits of theory/instrumentation.  (imho?)  However (here comes 
the obligatory response from an avowed theoretician!), one could redefine the 
description of temperature from a classical to a quantum framework then beg 
Gibbs' demons for forgiveness.  Yipes!!
	p.s.
		good to hear of your business venture Roger, you can expect to
see more than a few upper valley record seekers on opening day!

	-VooDoo

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 14:55:02 1992
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 14:43:38 PST
Subject: Re: Who's Most Chaotic? Asks Lee

Larry Ching wrote:


>Chaos theory ? UhUh - won't touch that! ( I personally haven't done enough
>reading in it, and what I've read I haven't absorbed yet).

Chaos theory(from what I remember):

Given a chaotic system; a Borne(?) stadium, for example;

looks like this:

		_ _ _ _ _ _  
	      *             *
	     *               *
	      * - - - - - - *

ok; well; it's supposed to be a rectangle with two perfect semi-circles;
and a moving particle, but anyway...;

Apparently the trajectories of the moving particle within this 
given chaotic system form some sort of pattern.

Now all we have to decide is whether or not our lives are truly 
chaotic. (Not to mention answering the question: Is a GIVEN chaotic system 
truly chaotic?)IMHO, this is a matter of measurment. If we measure half 
the steps it takes us to cross a room; then half of half the 
steps; and so on; we would never get across the room;
(1/n) raised to infinity converges to 0; but we can still walk 
across a room; and if we can cross the room at all; we can 
dance across it, too. Basically, our terms of measuring the world 
and the universe just don't measure up to what's there. Again IMHO,
it's the difference between understanding an objective/objectified
body of knowledge and experiencing that body of knowledge.  


Next you can ask me about the difference between countable and
uncountable infinity.

Jocelyn 

"You want Real Analysis; I'll give you Real Analysis."



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 15:27:32 1992
From: VOODOO CHILE <morris@gnl2.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 15:20:37 PST
Subject: re:chaos

umm... wouldn't it be a summation from 1 to infinity of (1/n) which does 
not converge to zero?  This would lead you across the room faster if you
were to walk linearly.  Of course, if one chose steps randomly in monte 
(python?) carlo fashion, hoo knows?

	chaotically marching back to lurkdom...

	-VooDoo

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 15:30:24 1992
From: bryanc@stargate.jpl.nasa.gov (Bryan Campbell)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 15:18:36 PST
Subject: Re: Who's Most Chaotic? Asks Lee

>Next you can ask me about the difference between countable and uncountable
>infinity.

   Do mean the varying degree's of infinity?  Like the set of Natural Numbers
versus the set of all rational numbers?  You could go beyond that even...
Say, into the set of all functions, which is uncountable in any dimension.

Bryan C.

<I love this crap>

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 15:36:24 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 15:26:19 PST
Subject: Rave Testimonial



My Testimonial: Why I Go To Raves

 I guess I should start with me and dancing. From what I remember about 
my childhood attempts at dancing, I was a hyperactive stepper. I would 
do what would be described now as pogoing, with a reve'd up version of 
twisting ( showing my age there!). I knew when to stop dancing, when my 
nose started bleeding.

 So, from my earliest years, I valued sensation over style in dancing. 
When I entered my teenage years, the sexuality & sensuality that I 
became capable of added some spice to the equation, but it was still 
mostly an adrenaline/trance thing. This was at odds with social dancing, 
especially in the shy, conservative environment of 1970's teen Hawaii. 
And, since I didn't like drinking all that much, rock concerts were the 
only way I could dance the way I wanted to. ( At that time, rock 
concerts in Hawaii were almost totally attended by white audiences ).

 The sensuality and trance components of my dancing increased after I 
encountered psychoactives; and my accessiblity to these aspects of 
dance has remained with me, in a mellower fashion, after I reduced my 
level of consumption.

 I screwed up my back a few years ago, so a lot of my dancing now is 
done with my upper body, as opposed to doing fancy dance moves with my 
feet. I do a lot of dancfloor roaming, as walking/jogging/running is 
easier for my legs to do than in-place dancing. I don't usually like 
compact crowds and uneven dancefloors at raves, because they both 
interfere with my zooming around.

--------

 The main reason I like raves is that I can dance the way I've always 
wanted to. 


 Other reasons are:

- Meeting people who are kind and patient.
  At one big warehouse rave in Hayward, I accidently stepped on 
someone's hand, but he was graciously forgiving. And, of course, I've 
met all you good SFRavers! Good people are hard to find.

- Not so much macho "I/we can booze/do drugs/dance/fight better than you 
and your gang can" attitude. ( Although the recent posts about WICKED 
may indicate that a person should be aware of potential trouble ).

- Crowd participation - can you imagine a seated audience "appreciating" 
a DJ , like a classical string quartet? What really annoys me at the 
huge Grateful Dead shows are the "butt-parkers" who seem to be there to 
watch the clowns (ie Deadheads) and be sports-style fans, as opposed to 
using their minds and bodies to join with the music. 

- (Bad reason coming here ->) Rave is "leading edge", as opposed to 
"cool" or "fashionable" . 
I'll be honest, part of my interest in raves comes from the novelty of 
them. I've always been a Curious George about pop avant culture, and 
these millenium (end)times have been very, very interesting! Also, I 
still feel an air of impermanence to raves. I don't want to miss this 
before it disappears, the way I was too late for the 60's.




 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | "Listen carefully to the music, and dance like a flower"                |
 |  ---> Body Of Light:"Dance Like A Flower"                               | 
 | "I AM THE GENIE OF THE TOOTHPASTE!"                  larryc@netcom.com  |
 |  ---> The Darwin Chamber:"Genie Of The Toothpaste"                      |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 15:49:50 1992
From: SHALA-KO (technokachina) <sscoen@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 18:42:21 EST
Subject: flame, flame, flame.

this recent barage of email discussion on math theory and chaos really is
getting out of hand on this list. with all due respect to the involved persons,
please keep these dicussions private or on another list.

(i get enough philosophical discussion on math theory from diff.eq. lecture)

ranting and RAVING!, "...because I'm addicted, goddammit!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To achieve ravelightenment is to live in the most blissful of consciousnesses"
 S          H          A          L           A          -          K          O

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
				<< SHALA-KO >>
shannon coEn		     << technokachina >>           sscoen@athena.mit.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 16:02:37 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 15:51:14 PST
Subject: Re: flame, flame, flame.


 SHALA-KO recently posted -

> 
> this recent barage of email discussion on math theory and chaos really is
> getting out of hand on this list. with all due respect to the involved persons,
> please keep these dicussions private or on another list.
> 
> (i get enough philosophical discussion on math theory from diff.eq. lecture)
> 

 Darn, and I was just about to post my 2 cents worth on sampled systems! :-)

		Larry "admittedly, the rave content was nearly nil" Ching

 ( Lotsa nice fractal projections at raves, tho')


 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | "Listen carefully to the music, and dance like a flower"                |
 |  ---> Body Of Light:"Dance Like A Flower"                               | 
 | "I AM THE GENIE OF THE TOOTHPASTE!"                  larryc@netcom.com  |
 |  ---> The Darwin Chamber:"Genie Of The Toothpaste"                      |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 16:09:31 1992
From: VOODOO CHILE <morris@gnl2.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 16:05:30 PST
Subject: re:flame, flame, flame

Ya know.. i somehow think this discussion (no matter how fruitless) began 
with some remote connection to raves... (SIGH!) Where o where did we go 
so horribly wrong!!!

FLAME OFF

	-VooDoo

From jocelyn@hal.com Tue Nov 24 16:14:41 1992
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 16:12:57 PST
Subject: re:chaos


VooDoo wrote:

>umm... wouldn't it be a summation from 1 to infinity of (1/n) which does 
>not converge to zero?  This would lead you across the room faster if you
>were to walk linearly.  Of course, if one chose steps randomly in monte 
>(python?) carlo fashion, hoo knows?

>	chaotically marching back to lurkdom...

>	-VooDoo

You win the prize! The summation of (1/n) as n goes from 1 to infinity
equals 1; which provides a kind of beautiful imagery in measuring a 
bunch of different people dancing across a floor. That's the summation, 
but the sequence of numbers (1/n) as n goes from 1 to infinity does 
converge to zero. I'm a non-linear advocate; so the monty python method 
is just fine with me.

Bryan C. wrote this:

>Next you can ask me about the difference between countable and uncountable
>infinity.(I wrote this part)

|   Do mean the varying degree's of infinity?  Like the set of Natural Numbers
|versus the set of all rational numbers?  You could go beyond that even...
|Say, into the set of all functions, which is uncountable in any dimension.

|Bryan C.

|<I love this crap>
 
Bryan- that's about it; the general idea is that given an infinite amount 
of time and a practical means, we could count to infinity; 1,2,3,etc...; 
but since we can remember the future; i.e. we don't have an infinite amount 
of time, so we just *KNOW* what will have had happened if we kept counting; 
we arrive at infinity anyway. As for counting the set of rationals, I seem 
to remember that there is a logical way to count them all, but it's 
non-linear; sort of a set of square spirals(I think?).... 

I'm glad somebody loves this crap; personally, I can't believe I remeber it.

Jocelyn

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 16:28:15 1992
From: paul@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Paul T.)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 15:31:55 PST
Subject: Re: did anyone go?

> Did anyone go to Lock-In or Ascent?
> Just curious-
> Jocelyn

     Ascent?  I was called in at the last moment to bring the sound system. 
Ascent was actually on Fri, night not Sat. night.  I hadn't checked this
week's guide to notice the mistake.  Only about 300 or 400 people showed up
out of which 130 paid to get in.  
     
     The party was held in Santa Rosa at the Veteran's Memorial Hall.  The
event was produced by the people who do the Santa Rosa weekly Microrave on
behalf of some "investors" who seemed disappointed they didn't get three or
four thousand people to come out.

     I guess they had dj cancellations or something (I didn't see Rick
Preston but maybe I just missed him somehow).  This Mr. Curbb was called in
at 9 or 10 pm and Moon Pup was called in at 6 or 7 pm.  The thing was
supposed to start at 10 pm.  Robbie Hardkiss did what he's good at and Carlos
does it again.  This guy does not depend on the mood of the crowd or the
overall circumstances to move him, he's just plain motivated and that seems
to rub off on where ever he is!  Josh provided a great slide show on a screen
almost as wide as the dance floor suspended from the ceiling.  The sound
system, a four corner stereo high fidelity sound chamber created on the dance
floor kept the tireless dancers moving till 6 am

     Fun with security:
     The city of Santa Rosa whose podunk (spelling?) respectability is still
slightly bruised over the Felix incident, apparently insisted that this party
hire some off duty P.D. to supplement the security as a condition for
permitting this party.  And as a bonus, if there were no problems, more
parties would be allowed in the area.  Well Jeff (Mr. Curbb), was followed
around quite abit while he was there.  After his set he took off and was
pulled over a quarter mile or so away and he and his car were searched.
The cops said they saw him "passing something" to someone.  I'm embarrassed
to admit that we had a case of this in Santa Cruz.  Is it legal to detain and
search someone because  they were seen "passing"  something?  Be careful with
those business cards and breath mints I guess!  Or maybe the custom of
bringing small gifts and candies to give away to each other will keep these
watcher types busy.

          There was a room across the hall from the dance that was the
chill/ambient space.  It was an ok place to go except there was no sounds or
music.  These promoters (Chamile) say they want to try it again in a month or
so , I hope my check clears to cover my expenses!

--Paul T.   
-- 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 16:38:08 1992
From: SHALA-KO (technokachina) <sscoen@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 19:31:56 EST
Subject: ???

FLAME ON! (and on, and on, and on...)

I think Larry, Jocelyn, and VooDoo deserve a kneeling bow for their admittance 
of their sins.
(flame wars are usually not so gracefully averted)

quote for the day: 
"Why do work for a class today, when you can fail it and take it next term?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Pfa! Spellingz for humanateez majerz" pEacE, lovE, Ecstacy...ravE!!!
  S           H            A           L           A           K           O
(a dehyphenated me! i feel like a new man!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
				<< SHALAKO >>
shannon coEn		      << technokachina >>          sscoen@athena.mit.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 16:40:03 1992
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 16:29:52 PST
Subject: Re: Rave Testimonial


> - Crowd participation - can you imagine a seated audience "appreciating" 
> a DJ , like a classical string quartet? What really annoys me at the 
> huge Grateful Dead shows are the "butt-parkers" who seem to be there to 
> watch the clowns (ie Deadheads) and be sports-style fans, as opposed to 
> using their minds and bodies to join with the music. 

Obvious flame: "butt-parkers" at Dead shows may very well be using
their minds and bodies to join with the music in a way much different
from dancing!

I personally find myself getting into Dead shows much more with my
mind than with my body, and vice versa for raves, but both are
incredible experiences.

Now, if you want to talk to me about the beer-swilling idiots that
scream "Jeeeerrreeee!" during Stella Blue while sitting on their
butts, that's a whole different ball 'o wax...

Bob
"Only one in ten thousand comes for the show..."

Bob Ramstad, Pleasure Seeker
boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com (preferred) or rramstad@us.oracle.com
"Anything that's worth doing is worth fucking up completely."



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 17:18:20 1992
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992   16:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Who's Most Chaotic? Asks Lee

In-Reply-To: larryc@netcom.com -- 11/24/92 08:49

hi folx!
i have done  a bit of reading in this so i'll try to say couple of words.
the pictures we see at raves, u know, the ones which keep  staying the
same even though they are being magnified, are examples of the mandelbrot
set, set of points which have s self-similar structure . the interesting
thing - well, one interesting thing - about these sets is that their dimension
has dimension between 1 and 2 ! the dimension of these sets is defined in some
math. way. that's why thery are called fractals, because they  have fractional
dimension. what's rather amazing about these types of sets is that they
show up in very different places : the weather, phase transition in condensed
matter physics, heart beats. this type of self-similar structure has the
misnomer of 'chotic' structure. it turns out that many systems in other
branches of knowledge - economics, cs, math - exhibit this type of
complex structure. 'choas' theory is a way to study such systems.
take care/n-joi/rave out
ovid

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 17:29:27 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 15:50:31 PST
Subject: Re: Who's Most Chaotic? Asks Lee


Jocelyn:

>it's the difference between understanding an objective/objectified
>body of knowledge and experiencing that body of knowledge.  

Can there be experience without *some* kind of understanding of it?
What if all we really had was an *understanding* that an experience
is taking place?  This 'understanding' then becomes the understanding
that an understanding is taking place.  This, I believe is the
game we play (without letting ourselves realize it) in order to avoid
the actual meaninglessness of our existence.  IknowthatIknowthatIknowthat...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 18:16:56 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 18:05:36 PST
Subject: Most Ravotic

I have talked about the following things in my last few posts:
- Rules about rules,
- Being pretentious about pretentiousness,
- Being Conscious of a universe that supports consciousness,
- Understanding of an understanding,
- Knowing that I know.

For me, circular reasonings, concepts that perpetuate themselves,
are very much modelled by the rave experience.  What could be a
better representation of selfpeptuation than the incessantly
perfect beat of house music?  Beats within beats, circles within
circles, perfect repetition, music that draws you to the very
nature of sounds, frequencies, waveforms.  Time can seem to stand
still when we get absorbed by the mathematically intuitive nature
of house music.  There are reasons why fractals, psychedelic images,
and symmetrical lighting effects "work" at raves.  And along with
the intensity and the real sense of NOW that occurs, there is the
absurdity, recognition of the paradox, of how meaningless and
therefore nonserious it also is.  We can travel to ends of our
wits, comeback with wonder and laughter, and share the insanity
that makes perfect sense with those around us.  Raving is like
dancing with the universe, with the style of dance of our own
choosing.  Since we are all part of the same universe we end up
dancing with each other on a cosmic level as well as on the more
down-to-earth interactions we experience with each other at raves.

I apologize if I've been overindulgent on the list lately.  I've
come in for a landing with this one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
____________________________________________________________________________



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 19:14:29 1992
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 19:04:11 PST
Subject: Re: Life's meaning, less you fret so....

I wrote:

>it's the difference between understanding an objective/objectified
>body of knowledge and experiencing that body of knowledge.  

Lee wrote:

|Can there be experience without *some* kind of understanding of it?

|What if all we really had was an *understanding* that an experience
|is taking place?  This 'understanding' then becomes the understanding
|that an understanding is taking place. This, I believe is the
|game we play (without letting ourselves realize it) in order to avoid
|the actual meaninglessness of our existence.  IknowthatIknowthatIknowthat...
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.PacBell.Com
|____________________________________________________________________________

On the contrary, there can be no understanding without experience.

Abstract all you want to, Lee; but as I go through my day to day life, 
whether working, writing, or raving, I feel things; more than that I 
*LEARN* things; about myself, about my near and far surroundings. 
Sometimes I learn by studying things "objectively"(I don't really believe 
in objective learning; one always inevitably brings oneself to whatever 
it is that s/he is learning; i.e. the learning process is self-reflexive; 
experiential, if you will), and sometimes I learn by doing things. 
Perhaps that seems too simple, but...

You see, there was a time not too long ago when getting out of bed 
once a day was a major accomplishment for me. I was so bitter and angry 
and depressed that I couldn't see any reason; no reason at all... My 
life was not meaningless; it was misersable and painful. I pretty much 
did commit suicide metaphorically; I stayed in bed all day; I completely 
isolated myself from everyone; I stopped eating. Finally, I slowly turned 
around; what I took away from that experience (call it an understanding of 
an understanding of an experience if you want, but I was literally starving) 
is that I'm only here for one reason: to learn! no matter how painful it is; 
if I live through it and learn something; then my cup runneth over. So 
here's the meaning of my life: education of myself and those around me who 
care to partake 'til i can't speak/read/write/listen/move/touch/
smell/feel/dance anymore. But 'til then, it's what you make it; fuck 
the long-run (cyclical) version of the human race; you won't 
be around for it anyway. 

So what if we're not really going anywhere! the point is the trip itself; 
the end is the means; it's not where you go, it's how you carry yourself;
and also what kind of outfit and mask you're wearing at the time.
Furthermore, it's a matter of what's useful at different moments.
I strongly recommend that everyone give up linearity; except when 
it's useful; for example, when you're trying to get from point A to point B;
but LIFE IS NOT A MATTER OF GOING FROM POINT A TO POINT B.

And anyway; James Brown ain't the only thing that's dead; 
existential angst is a tired and played theme; just ask 
Jean Paul Sartre or Franz Kafka.

Lee: What happened to "everything is possible"? Should I worry about you?
Are you a victim of the Cure and the Smiths? I apologize for the vehement
response, but convincing yourself that your life is meaningless is 
such a waste of time. Don't discount me too readily, because I'm speaking 
from experience....

Jocelyn

P.S. you're welcome to kick the soapbox out from under me any time you like;
who knows; maybe I'll learn something...

Let me know...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 19:20:06 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 19:11:47 PST
Subject: fwd


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Date: 24 Nov 1992 10:22:37 -0700
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Subject: RE: Aggro at Wicked
To: "Geoff White" <geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org>
Status: R

First of all I wanted to say Geoff I never got to meet you at Wicked but I was
hoping too, next time for sure, maybe you can do the lunch next Wed. at my
place?

Now about the attitude with the guy who's eye was punched out.  This guy
totally bummed me out too, but he has been doing it to me ever since I started
the rave scene.  I have seen him many times at raves standing around with his
shirt off looking cool.  Then every once in awhile him a friend will do their
dance routine, He's a hot dancer but he always has a bad attitude. Several
times at raves including last saturday at Wicked I have accidentally walked
into his Dance space (not him) and he has unpolitely said some rude remark and
shoved me out.  I am not a very easy oing guy so I have always blown him off,
but last Saturday he just got on my nerves.  I saw the fight that almost
started with Moonpup I was there at the time. 

This is what really burns pisses me off.  After that the latter incededent I
was standing by my truck giving water and fruit too people and he walks by. 
Instead of walking around my truck, he walked up these stairs by my truck and
then stepped onto my engine cover then back to the ground.  What an ASSHOLE.  I
didnt say anything cause I was really mellow at the time but after thinking
about what a bad attitude this guy has always had it really gets to me.

I am not a small guy but I have never gotten in fights eather because I beleive
that no matter how much you beat someone up your never a winner.  I juswt
realize that one of these days that his attitude will get him what he deservers
and I just think about that and blow him off.  I even heard MoonPups girlfriend
tell him that his Karma will get to him.

 Peace and Love


    XXXXX
   X     X
  X  NUT  X   
   X     X
    XXXXX  
_______________________________________________________________________________


----- End Included Message -----


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 19:33:28 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 18:27:42 PST
Subject: Re:Larry's Rave Testimonial

Ok, I'll be brief since I been on already

Larry tok a lot of the words out of my
mouth in his Rave Testimonial (even if he
did get flamed for the "butt-parkers" comment,
so what?).
Larry, you were never too late for the 60s!
The 60s were too early for you!

World's second most valuable 60s artifact
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 19:33:36 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 18:17:47 PST
Subject: Re: Whaddaya Want? Virtual Raves or sumpin'?

So SHALA-KO thinks we're thinkin' too 
much?  Too much theoretical physics and
math whilst we're butt-sittin' at our PCs
an' modems.  Well, BFD, bud! Flame THAT,
sucka'!  An' here I thought youse wuz from
Sanna Crooz originally--wasn't I right?
What's wrong with you, man? Humans were not
made to rave alone; no human is an I-land!
That's rudimentary--so don't you like to
know the connectedness of all things, the
"virtual tapestry" of raves, beats and
modern physics?  That the shortest distance 
between two raves is a mass of digital fractals?
Wassamadda wit yoo? Even my lizard-brain side
likes to contemplate the beauty of ten thousand
sunrises; even my Brooklyn mafioso greatuncle
argues with his effete greatnephew about fascists
as futurists and what that has to do with raves.
Come on, boy, lighten up!
World's second most Aristotelian raver
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 19:57:34 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Tue, 24 Nov 92 19:50:55 PST
Subject: Re: Whaddaya Want? Virtual Raves or sumpin'?

REPLY TO 11/24/92 19:29 FROM wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us "William Penna":
Re: Whaddaya Want? Virtual Raves or sumpin'?


i didn kno youse wuz from bklyn. my-a mafioso uncle in staten can
take your miafioso piece o parkerbutt fuckin number 5 train riding,
aintgot no dough because the lotto's fixed by the lon guy land
(only nyers will get that) families we still hate you for the
fucking windows trial piece rat suasage from sbarrett guy. fuck.
man, you know. i coulda gotten some sleep ta night, but, like you
kept me up alla night fucking thinking that some other joe blow
wrong side of the bqe two-bit sell-out pizan was moving in on my
fucking rave scene without showin da proper respects. we're goin ta
the mattresses on this mr. #2.

and those fuckin kids with fuckin math and quant... how the fuck do
you say it, quantum physicals? i got your quantum physicals right
here. a right? you take dat, and your smelly schroedenger's (sp?)
cat box outa the fucking house. look, your not fooling anyone, we
kno dat uncertianity stuf is cause you ain't got it where you need
it. between the 1st and 2nd dimension. i gotta aunt between the
bronx and scarsdale. that's between and she can't even take the 1 or
2 dimensions cause she's got the gout. but why the fuck do you care?
fuck you you fuck. hey --- that's my circular recurrsive
tautilogical piece o zen for the day. i'll say it again. fuck you,
you fuck. all the wisdom you will ever need to know.

missing home on the holidays

pat

To:  wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 20:45:33 1992
From: caliban@ucscb.ucsc.edu (tempestual geometry)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 20:36:51 -0800
Subject: billy rainbow


	is still sighted in santa cruz, and even at ucsc.  usually
	with a sound system.  i could swear i have heard rumors
	sighting him with genesis p-orridge...
	
	could be a cool alliance.  billy was a legend... i was a 
	porter student.  god knows things get exagerated, but 
	even toned down he must have been one hell of a head.
	i can only imagine what porter was like with him living
	there brewing 'cid in the batcave and e still being legal.

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 21:07:25 1992
From: Max Enrique Sequeira Garza <al160184@academ01.mty.itesm.mx>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 22:57:29 -0600 (CST)
Subject: help for mexican rave!

	I am writing to ask if any of you could send tips, etc. on how i could organize a standard rate rave , which me and a friend are planing to set up here in Monterrey , Mexico.  We'd really appreaciate anything since this is gonna be the first one in this side of mexico!!!
	The crowd we've been gathering to go to the rave is pretty small (we figure 100 would be like the minimum, not passing the 200 people), and we don't have that much cash as to by Intellabeams and stuff, though we've got good sound, fresh and a hole lot a music, smoke machine aome dark light bulbs and a strobe light (pretty cheap huh?).  Anyways we plan to do it on a small storage place. (bodegue?). 
	Well, the thing is ANY tips you want to send will be mayorly appreaciated!!
	Thanks again, keep up the raving... and let it spread worldwide-but keep it underground!

		MAX


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 24 22:32:25 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 22:24:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Who's Most Chaotic? Asks Lee

I'm LOVING these meta-discussions about entropy and chaos, but I do
ask that everyone please try and tie it back to what the list is about,
even if it's only a vague reference...  I subscribed someone yesterdat
to the list and today he was worried that he had joined some sort of
theoretical math list... :)

	Brian

p.s. - Fractals!  Who mentioned fractals!  I see the philosophy everywhere
these days... weeds, stucco, love relationships......


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 00:49:16 1992
From: The Normals <normals@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 22:11:14 -0800
Subject: Re:  Aggro at Wicked

I think they key to this kind of problem is either/both promotion and/or
doing too much at the same location [like all the beach parties there for a
while.]

What we do about this, well, keep our eyes open for one and look out for
each other.  Geoffw is right - the scene will only survive if we work at it.
We know it's worth it.  Connection and communication can do a lot, not to
mention simple awareness.  It is up to us to look out for one another
because the cops sure aren't going to do it.  [Although the promoters have a
responsibility to choose a safe venue and flyer responsibly.]  The only way
this is going to work is if we make it.

Comments?

see you in the future...
-M

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 02:29:54 1992
From: foo@nowhere.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 05:01:00 -0500
Subject: preventing that tired & draggy feeling the day after using MDMA

There is a known way to almost completely eliminate the mental exhaustion
normally experienced for a few days after using MDMA ("Ecstasy"): mix in
the antidepressant Prozac, roughly 1 part Prozac to 10 parts MDMA.

The theory is that one of the compounds produced by the breakdown of
MDMA in the brain is toxic to serotonin receptors; Prozac binds to those
receptors (this is what it is designed to do), thus preventing the toxic
substance from getting to them.  I don't think the truth of this has been
demonstrated conclusively, but it is certainly plausible, and I can tell
you from personal experience that whatever the reason, IT WORKS.

Of course there are additional risks involved in adding another chemical
to the stew, especially if you don't really know what you're getting in
the first place.  You could have a specific sensitivity to Prozac
(although I haven't heard of anyone having a severe reaction to a single
small dose).  Or, if your MDMA is not pure, there could be a bad inter-
action between the Prozac and one of the other substances in it (I think
-- seem to recall -- that it shouldn't be taken with MAO inhibitors, bnt
am not sure of that).  Nevertheless, I think in most cases the benefits
are worth the risks.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 02:16:14 1992
From: "Your friend, Mike {!)" <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 02:09 PST
Subject: back to basics...

Since I am going up to the city tomorrow (yay!) and will not have
my computer (aww) I will be off the list for a couple of days.

But I look forward to seeing you all at Basics...I will most probably
be in my red and black striped shorts and as of yet undecided shirt
but I will definitely have my blinking red light...I haven't gone out
for a month, so I hope to meet everyone I keep missing..

As far as that big guy goes, I hope that enought people waste some negative 
energy by look at him mean (while his big back is turned, for safety
reasons) that he will feel compelled to get out...I hate that stuff...
some people just aren't comfortable with anything and have to take their
insecurities out on everyone else...urghpgh!

Anyway, have a great thanksgiving and all, and I will see you all 
very soon.

Oh yeah--the physics was easy...all you had to do was keep pressing 
return and it got off the screen real fast...I don't mean to insult the intelligence of the posters, it's 
just that I would get these flashes of math anxiety/nausea when I looked 
at them...

Ignorance isn't bliss, just easier, I guess.

peace 'n love 'n hugs 'n such

mi
ke
(blinkblinkbliknblink)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 03:28:03 1992
From: caliban@ucscb.ucsc.edu (tempestual geometry)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 03:20:33 -0800
Subject: a jocular query


	how many deadheads does it take to
	change a light bulb?


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 03:55:14 1992
From: caliban@ucscb.ucsc.edu (tempestual geometry)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 03:46:02 -0800
Subject: fractals


	try lying down in a 'fairy circle' of second generation
	redwood trees... look up into the sky thru the branches...
	thats fractals.

	until the uc regents saw the whole circle to three-foot
	stumps.  i seen it done, a place of worship, a place 
	crucial, immediately crucial to some people and less
	directly crucial to all of you, we who have been
	preaching the vibe, but none-the-less the place in
	the trees of which i speak embodies the vibe...
	it's so strong there, but fading

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 05:55:46 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 0:23:35 PST
Subject: Re:  Psychedelic Waterpsliding!

The Normals suggests Psychedelic Waterpsliding!
Wow1 On the 4th of July! Farout! In Psan Jose!
Kewl!  Let's start planning it NOW!  But if
we're gonna plan it here--on sfraves--let's
be sure to get in the rave angle for the new--
and experienced (please, not OLD) ravers--
virtual and otherwise--on the line!  So let's
have Rave Nite at the Waterpslide! Whaddaya think?
Happy T-Day All!
World's psilliest willy
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 06:45:33 1992
From: ccowboy%ble%boo@ns.pacbell.com (Console Cowboy)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 18:06:54 PST
Subject: warehouse

>but as i listened to better techno and trance and went to a few good
>raves (by the way, my friends and i used to go to "wharehouse parties"
>YEARS ago [like 6 7 and _8_ eight years ago where we'd dance to 
>industrial and techno/house and drop A/E...they just weren't called
>raves then...)

...that's where the term house came from...wareHOUSE...that's also what
arsenio and his dogpound do every night w/ their ROOF ROOF calls..basically
the scream during a good house jam encouraging the roof to cave in..but
arsenio probably just thinks its a cool thing to say..

--
Please send any replies here: ccowboy%ble%boo@pacbell.com


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 06:51:05 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 06:41:45 PST
Subject: Re:  Psychedelic Waterpsliding!


	The Normals suggests Psychedelic Waterpsliding!
	Wow1 On the 4th of July! Farout! In Psan Jose!

They MUST BE CRAZY or what after what happened the last time?

	Kewl!  Let's start planning it NOW!  But if
	we're gonna plan it here--on sfraves--let's
	be sure to get in the rave angle for the new--
	and experienced (please, not OLD) ravers--
	virtual and otherwise--on the line!  So let's
	have Rave Nite at the Waterpslide! Whaddaya think?
	Happy T-Day All!
	World's psilliest willy
	Will

Sorry Will, I'm never going NEAR that place, just THINKING about it gives me
the creaps!


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 07:32:46 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 6:31:47 PST
Subject: Re:  Aggro Responses

Thanks, M--

Not only because it's that time of year, but
also because this is an item we all ought to
check in on: if not us, who?  As more than
one of us has commented, how come I was the 
only one to see or do such-and-such.  Stories
like that recent one from the LA freeway 
where car after car must have zoomed through
the body of the person who fell or jumped off
the overpass, this is the time (it always is)
to light the candle and not just curse the darkness.
This even relates to Lee and Jocelyn's posts,
because I'm not arguing one stance against the
other, but I want it all; there are always 
enough of us to do what we want to do--having
just the will to do itis not enough without
the passion and inspiration to do it as well.
It's the combination of both that makes it
happen.

World's second murkiest thinker
giving thanks to us all
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 07:32:50 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 07:11:12 PST
Subject: Re:  warehouse

	>but as i listened to better techno and trance and went to a few good
	>raves (by the way, my friends and i used to go to "wharehouse parties"
	>YEARS ago [like 6 7 and _8_ eight years ago where we'd dance to 
	>industrial and techno/house and drop A/E...they just weren't called
	>raves then...)

	...that's where the term house came from...wareHOUSE...that's also what
	arsenio and his dogpound do every night w/ their ROOF ROOF calls..basically
	the scream during a good house jam encouraging the roof to cave in..but
	arsenio probably just thinks its a cool thing to say..

I don't mean no harm but... where do you get this stuff from :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 08:44:12 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 8:34:13 PST
Subject: How Many DeadHeads?


A recent post -

> From: caliban@ucscb.ucsc.edu (tempestual geometry)
> Subject: a jocular query
> 
>	how many deadheads does it take to
>	change a light bulb?

 At least two hundred and seventeen:

- One guy to coordinate the parking.

- Two guys who will try to scalp you a ticket to the bulb screwing.

- One guy trying to sell you jewelry/bumper stickers/tie-dyes/doses/
  veggie burritos on your way to the bulb screwing.

 ( OOPS - gotta start the count over, the above folks don't all count as
   deadheads - maybe the veggie burrito guy ...)

- Two gals in granny dresses who want a free "miracle" ticket to the
  bulb screwing.

- At least three deadheads to form a drum circle before the bulb 
  screwing, and during the intermission ( if any ).

- Two deadheads to argue about whether this bulb screwing was as good 
  as the bitchin' bulb screwing at the Winterland in 1975.

- Two hundred or more telekinetic deadheads to concentrate their psychic
  powers to levitate another deadhead up to the light socket.

- A sober (<- this condition optional) deadhead to screw in the bulb.

- Three deadheads to tape the bulb screwing - two with taper tickets,
  and one with a hidden tape recorder.

- One guy trying to sell you jewelry/bumper stickers/tie-dyes/doses/
  veggie burritos on your way out of the bulb screwing.

- Five deadheads to play their tapes of the Winterland 1975 bulb screwing
  in the parking lot.

				Hey, You Asked!  :-)

					Larry Ching
 

 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | "Listen carefully to the music, and dance like a flower"                |
 |  ---> Body Of Light:"Dance Like A Flower"                               | 
 | "I AM THE GENIE OF THE TOOTHPASTE!"                  larryc@netcom.com  |
 |  ---> The Darwin Chamber:"Genie Of The Toothpaste"                      |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 09:47:48 1992
From: S.ROSS@cgnet.com
Date: 25 Nov 1992 09:37:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Seattle raving?

I will be in Seattle from now till Sunday.  Anyone know of any regular
raves in that area, or know how I can find out about them?

Please send responses direct to S.Ross@CGNET.COM since I'm on the calendar
list only...

THAAAAANNNNKKKKSS!

Steve

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 09:53:02 1992
From: kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com (Kevin Goldsmith)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 09:47:09 -0800
Subject: 60's stuff...

I don't know about anyone else, but the relationship of raves to the 60's bugs me
a lot. Again, I think it is my hippy-hating punk days that somewhat continue to
have a grasp on me, but I'm glad I wasn't around in the 60's, and I wish people
wouldn't continue to look back on them as the heydey of American Civilization.
 This feeling will make me very unpopular on the list, I am aware, but I had to
get it off my chest.  Note, I don't still hate hippies nor really anyone else
for that matter, but when I see 15 year old kids pretending they are 1968 on
Haight-Ashbury, it makes me want to vomit.

	Kevin "what am I getting myself into now?" Goldsmith






From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 10:53:38 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 10:41:12 PST
Subject: Re:  Psychedelic Waterpsliding!

what happened at the water slides that was so bad?

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 10:56:45 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 10:48:14 PST
Subject: Old ecstacy...

okay-

i could REALLY use a reply on this one from somebody who knows before
6:00 toonite!  :) :)

what happens if you take 2 year old ecstacy?

(if you answered nothing, are there any unpleasant side-effects?)

thanks in advance helping me rave till dawn in good health.

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 11:08:14 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 10:58:06 PST
Subject: good point...

=>  	Well, the thing is ANY tips you want to send will be mayorly appreaciated!!
=>  	Thanks again, keep up the raving... and let it spread worldwide-but keep it underground!
=>  
=>  		MAX
=>  

i just like this guys point:  let raving spread to everyone, but keep it
in the right hands, keep it underground.  the only way!

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 11:17:51 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 10:47:04 PST
Subject: Re:  60's stuff...

	I don't know about anyone else, but the relationship of raves to the 60's bugs me
	a lot. Again, I think it is my hippy-hating punk days that somewhat continue to
	have a grasp on me, but I'm glad I wasn't around in the 60's, and I wish people
	wouldn't continue to look back on them as the heydey of American Civilization.
	 This feeling will make me very unpopular on the list, I am aware, but I had to
	get it off my chest.  Note, I don't still hate hippies nor really anyone else
	for that matter, but when I see 15 year old kids pretending they are 1968 on
	Haight-Ashbury, it makes me want to vomit.

		Kevin "what am I getting myself into now?" Goldsmith

Well I don't think that anyone who was around then would look on it as the 
heydey of american civilization. perhaps you have this belief due to the experience of the 60's that you have had through watching the Big Chill and other such media stuff.
If you are a young man of draft age you should definitely  be
glad you weren't around during the 60s especially if you were a black male
cuz you were definitely goin to Nam.  Maybe you should look at what it is about
your impression of the 60's that you hate?
At the time "Hippies" were one of the few groups offering an alternative  to
the plug-in, consume, go to war, hate niggers, gooks, castro, fags, my country
right-or-wrong mentality that really made up the bulk of the american civilization at the time.  The were people just like us, imperfect and not
necessarily organized or with solutions to the problem, some of them were just
guys that said gee I don't wanna die or kill some yellow folks who ain't
did nuthin to me and had the nerve or some might say the stupidity to buck 
the system, growing your hair long and becomming part of the "movement" offered
some solace to the underground life of a draft doger.  (Draft Dogers
couldn't work at any place like SGI, but you could build missles for locheed
and get a deferment but that's another story).  Some Hippies just wanted to
party and participate  in all the "free love" that was going around.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 11:24:51 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 11:13:29 PST
Subject: Re: 60's stuff...


 Kevin Goldsmith recently posted -

> 
> I don't know about anyone else, but the relationship of raves to the 
> 60's bugs me a lot. Again, I think it is my hippy-hating punk days that 
> somewhat continue to have a grasp on me, but I'm glad I wasn't around in 
> the 60's, and I wish people wouldn't continue to look back on them as the 
> heydey of American Civilization.  

 As someone who's only a two or three years older than Siouxie Siouxe, I can
understand some of your feelings. In the late 80's, I was talking to this
Mod Revival gal who was pining for the 60's - I told her that it didn't make
much sense, because then she'd still be alive in the present, but 15 years
older. I told her that, instead of wishing to be alive then, she should 
make the most of living in the present.

 My feeling about 60's references & raves is that the 60's should be used 
as raw data for what should/should not be done now, not as a "heydey of
American Civilization" to be bowed down to uncritically.

>  This feeling will make me very unpopular on the list, I am aware, but I had 
> to get it off my chest.  

 Nah, don't sweat it. 

> Note, I don't still hate hippies nor really anyone 
> else for that matter, but when I see 15 year old kids pretending they are 
> 1968 on Haight-Ashbury, it makes me want to vomit.

 How does your digestive tract handle teeny punks who think it's 1978?


					Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com

--------------

PS - (Not necessarily related to Kevin's post) I think one of the con jobs
of modern consumer society is the "modern" con. So much of our economy
and social status is dependent on convincing the public to change fashions -
compare that to pre-industrial societies, which incorporated a stock
heritage of culteral motifs into their clothes,tools, buildings, etc. 

 If anybody wants to chat with me about this, email me at larryc@netcom.com.
This isn't a sociology group, ya' know!

-- 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 11:32:05 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 11:19:32 PST
Subject: Re: toons

> 
> oh yeah, is anyone going to toons (SPUN JENO GARTH!!!!) and then too
> the energizr, 'cos i'll be at both if any sfravers want to meet up....
> 
> -mark.
> 

 Looks like I'll be able to go too, barring any last minute complications.
I'll be the guy at Toons wearing the big Disney Goofy T-shirt. I also
plan to go to energizer. ( Hope I get up in time tomorrow to finish
cooking my Thanksgiving potluck contribution! ).

					Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com

-- 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 11:38:12 1992
From: kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com (Kevin Goldsmith)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 11:26:06 -0800
Subject: Re:  60's stuff...

On Nov 25, 10:47am, Geoff White wrote:
> Well I don't think that anyone who was around then would look on it as the
> heydey of american civilization. perhaps you have this belief due to the
experience of the 60's that you have had through watching the Big Chill and
other such media stuff.
> If you are a young man of draft age you should definitely  be
> glad you weren't around during the 60s especially if you were a black male
> cuz you were definitely goin to Nam.  Maybe you should look at what it is
about
> your impression of the 60's that you hate?
> At the time "Hippies" were one of the few groups offering an alternative  to
> the plug-in, consume, go to war, hate niggers, gooks, castro, fags, my country
> right-or-wrong mentality that really made up the bulk of the american
civilization at the time.  The were people just like us, imperfect and not
> necessarily organized or with solutions to the problem, some of them were just
> guys that said gee I don't wanna die or kill some yellow folks who ain't
> did nuthin to me and had the nerve or some might say the stupidity to buck
> the system, growing your hair long and becomming part of the "movement"
offered
> some solace to the underground life of a draft doger.  (Draft Dogers
> couldn't work at any place like SGI, but you could build missles for locheed
> and get a deferment but that's another story).  Some Hippies just wanted to
> party and participate  in all the "free love" that was going around.
>
>-- End of excerpt from Geoff White


I was a young man of draft age (well a little older, I would have been in the
second call) during Desert Storm.  I had made plans to make tracks for Canada,
the minute the draft got restarted.  I know to a very minor extent the fear.
 Also, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people who were hippies during
the 60s.  What I can't understand, is why people continue, decades later, to
live in the 60's.  Especially, people who weren't born until after the hippy
movement had long died down.  I am against this romanticized view of hippies
that people still continue to believe.  It is a deluded way to live.  Times have
'a' changed already.  Let's move on and create new territory for ourselves
rather than wish for the past to repeat.

Kevin






From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 12:16:54 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 12:03:42 PST
Subject: Re: toons

KEWL-

so, so far it's me and larry, i'll be the one in a purple and pink striped
beanie (my favorite:) and i'm 6'3 and i'll be by the dj table and the pool
tables.

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 12:36:46 1992
From: Pete Reiter <megatest!plethorax!preiter@sun.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 11:40:44 PST
Subject: Toons/Energizer

Yes! I plan on attending both. Hopefully this will be the night that 
restores my faith in south bay raving.

-
preiter@megatest.com                               Pete Reiter, Megatest Corp.
                 "Sometimes, the music is just more important"

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 12:47:41 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 12:35:32 PST
Subject: fascists as futurists


	I was just reading the chapter in Lipstick Traces about
dada, futurism, and the connections of both to fascism.  Not an
hour ago.  Then I read Will's post about his uncle.  Just a coincidence,
as Greil Marcus might have pointed out.

	Jim :)

Oh, so I don't get flamed for not talking about raves...um...raves
are pretty fun...I like them.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 12:59:23 1992
From: andys@ingres.com (Andrew Sherman)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 12:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: 60's stuff... 

larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) said:
>
>  Kevin Goldsmith recently posted -
> 
> > 
> > I don't know about anyone else, but the relationship of raves to the 
> > 60's bugs me a lot. Again, I think it is my hippy-hating punk days that 
> > somewhat continue to have a grasp on me, but I'm glad I wasn't around in 
> > the 60's, and I wish people wouldn't continue to look back on them as the 
> > heydey of American Civilization.  
> 
>  As someone who's only a two or three years older than Siouxie Siouxe, I can
> understand some of your feelings. In the late 80's, I was talking to this
> Mod Revival gal who was pining for the 60's - I told her that it didn't make
> much sense, because then she'd still be alive in the present, but 15 years
> older. I told her that, instead of wishing to be alive then, she should 
> make the most of living in the present.

I read a quote in the paper this week which this reminded me of:

[It was] ... "the American doctor-poet Oliver Wendell Holmes who said (I
cannot trace the exact quote) that every man should be a creature of
his times, lest he be judged not to have lived."

I think this is a useful comment about people living in the past.

-Andrew


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 13:25:23 1992
From: zdross@ucdavis.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 13:09:13 -0800
Subject: happy holidays to all

Everyone, please have a great time over the holiday weekend.  I hope to see 
some of you at Basics on saturday.  I will try to make a makeshift SFRaves 
pin to wear so that you can find me.  It should be a good rave, so try to
make it if you can.

If any of you need a ride, I might have room in my car, so if you are in need,
please call.  I live in San Francisco, the # is 431-2109.  I'll be there 
starting thursday and it is cool to use me for my car!

Peace everyone
Zak

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 13:37:46 1992
From: susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 13:31:20 -0800
Subject: Depression in winter


Geoffw wrote in yesterday asking if anyone had any info on depression
being brought on by the winter season.  I asked a friend about it and
he gave me some info which I'll pass on.  It is sketchy, so I apologize
in advance, but perhaps it will help.

The syndrome has to do with the hormone melatonin, the production
of which is dependent on light.  This hormone is either increased
or decreased in when the amount of sunlight is lower (my friend wasn't
sure which direction it is) in the winter months, causing depression.
The therapy is supposedly to expose oneself to bright light.

That's it.  Not a lot, I know, and it is hearsay, but my friend
got his info from a pharmacologist, so I think it's reliable, and I
hope it will get you started on finding out more about this problem.

Good luck,
susiez

susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 14:09:42 1992
From: "Devin J. Hanson" <DHANSON@cc.utah.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 14:57 MST
Subject: Re: Depression in winter


>Geoffw wrote in yesterday asking if anyone had any info on depression
>being brought on by the winter season.  I asked a friend about it and
>he gave me some info which I'll pass on.  It is sketchy, so I apologize
>in advance, but perhaps it will help.

>The syndrome has to do with the hormone melatonin, the production
>of which is dependent on light.  This hormone is either increased
>or decreased in when the amount of sunlight is lower (my friend wasn't
>sure which direction it is) in the winter months, causing depression.
>The therapy is supposedly to expose oneself to bright light.

>That's it.  Not a lot, I know, and it is hearsay, but my friend
>got his info from a pharmacologist, so I think it's reliable, and I
>hope it will get you started on finding out more about this problem.

>Good luck,
>susiez

>susiez@garnet.berkeley.edu


This actually has a name, its called Seasonal Affectiveness Disorder, a past
SO of mine suffered from this.  The treatment is to exposeoneself to bright 
full spectrum light for a couple hours a day.  

Specialty light stores will carry full spectrum florecent tubes that will do 
the trick.  

It really makes a noticable difference! 

Devin

BTW: How did this one get on the SFRAVES mail?   :-)


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 14:17:27 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 13:06:12 PST
Subject: ???

 >Also, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people who were hippies during
>the 60s.  What I can't understand, is why people continue, decades later, to
>live in the 60's.  Especially, people who weren't born until after the hippy
>movement had long died down.  I am against this romanticized view of hippies
>that people still continue to believe.  It is a deluded way to live.  Times have
>'a' changed already.  Let's move on and create new territory for ourselves
>rather than wish for the past to repeat.

>Kevin

I don't think that someone is "living in the 60's" just because they are a hippy.
You should have more respect for the rights, beliefs, and lifestyles of others.   
Many people think that the rave lifestyle is deluded.  Just because someone is
continuing a cultural style or way of life that started at a certain point in
time doesn't mean that they are trying to re-live that point.  They are just living
in the changing times by a certain way of conduct.  Would you tell a Budist monk
to get with the times because that shit went out centuries ago?  Or would you tell
a Scottsman to take off that kilt because this ain't Scottland?  Are racial and
religous ways much different than a sub-cultural way?  I'm glad that ther are
still hippies, and punks, and mods, and all of these other groups of people that
are into some sub-culture.  It's starting to look realy cool when you walk down
the street and there are all of these different looking people, all into
different things.  A James Dean looking guy with Levi's, a ducktail, and a leather
here, a baggie-clothed  hip-hopper there, a tie-die clad hippy over here, a Seek or
some other turban-wearing guy there.  It's like as time goes on new styles arrive,
old ones are recycled, and fusions between any combo of the two occur. 

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 14:19:17 1992
From: gangriel@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 14:11:06 -0800
Subject: Help/hello all...


Hi,
	This isn again off subject, but this'll be real quick...
I mailed a message to this list about the UC Santa Cruz fee hikes and the
police violence and all...and I got many responses, thanks all...
BUT, I lossed all of your addresses due to a computer crash...so, if you guy's
could write me again, that'd be cool...especialy the guy from the Stanford
Radio Station. 

	Thanks all...
	Have fun, Merry x-mas, happy un-birthday and thanks fer yer time...
	Stefan

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 14:39:39 1992
From: gwh@lurnix.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 13:19:57 -0800
Subject: Re: preventing that tired & draggy feeling the day after using MDMA 


Two warnings about this message on mixing Prozac and X:
One: whoever sent it used fake mail to hide their identity.  I won't
	speculate on why (it's not necessarily bad... 8-)
Two: Prozac is definitely not a simple, cool drug to play with.
	It has some very evil side effects, though at the dosage
	suggested here I don't think (AND THIS IS NOT A MEDICAL
	OPINION! 8-) that it's a problem.  Someone might want
	to ask a pharmacologist or psychologist.

-george



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 14:40:48 1992
From: John Hammond <jhammond@mv.us.adobe.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 14:25:56 -0800
Subject: Re: 60's stuff...

>-- End of excerpt from Geoff White

On Nov 25, 10:47am, Kevin Goldsmith wrote:
I was a young man of draft age (well a little older, I would have
been in the second call) during Desert Storm.  I had made plans to  
make tracks for Canada, the minute the draft got restarted.  I know  
to a very minor extent the fear. Also, don't get me wrong, I have no  
problem with people who were hippies during the 60s.  What I can't  
understand, is why people continue, decades later, to live in the  
60's.  Especially, people who weren't born until after the hippy
movement had long died down.  I am against this romanticized view of  
hippies that people still continue to believe.  It is a deluded way  
to live.  Times have 'a' changed already.  Let's move on and create  
new territory for ourselves rather than wish for the past to repeat.

>-- End of excerpt from Kevin Goldsmith


there's a sixteen year old kid who lives next door to me. He and his  
friends play Led Zeppelin non stop. I grew up in the 60's and was  
listening to the same music. OK I like the music but I don't get it,  
when I was sixteen there was no way I'd be listening to music that  
was 25 years. I'd rather see a generation of people play music I hate  
as long as it's their own as long as it's "new territory" ( and not  
disco, you have to draw the line somewhere ). Pining over some  
romantic past is for senile old men like Reagan.

John 





From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 14:49:20 1992
From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 14:32:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Old ecstacy...

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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 10:49:24 PST
From: uunet!ganymede.apple.com!mark (Mark Baldwin)
Message-Id: <9211251849.AA07337@ganymede.apple.com>
To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Old ecstacy...
Status: R

oh yeah, is anyone going to toons (SPUN JENO GARTH!!!!) and then too
the energizr, 'cos i'll be at both if any sfravers want to meet up....

-mark.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	       I will be at Toons tonite! I don't know when I'll
	       be there though??????????

	       =noah= Out of the lurking pit of slime!!!!!!!



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 15:04:01 1992
From: kmg@cilmi.esd.sgi.com (Kevin Goldsmith)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 14:55:07 -0800
Subject: ???

On Nov 25,  1:06pm, Mark wrote:
>
>  It's like as time goes on new styles arrive,
> old ones are recycled, and fusions between any combo of the two occur.
>
> -Mark
>
>-- End of excerpt from Mark


You made a lot of good points in your post, except for the last sentence in
which you completely reiterate what I am opposed to.  I think there is a big
difference in being a hippy than in being a Scotsman or a memeber of a religious
organization.  You disagree with me on that.  We can continue this discussion,
but it isn't central to my point.  My argument is against recycling old styles
and old things.  It's for creating something new, something we can claim as our
own, rather than relying on the creativity of past generations.

Kevin






From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 15:16:20 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 15:02:18 PST
Subject: Re: Old ecstacy...

Were I Mark Baldwin, I might have said this:

> what happens if you take 2 year old ecstacy?
> 
> (if you answered nothing, are there any unpleasant side-effects?)
> 
> thanks in advance helping me rave till dawn in good health.
> 
> -mark.
> 

Safrole (very similar in structure to MDMA) decomposes under prolonged
exposure to UV radiation (e.g. sunlight).  This is true of many
organic chemicals, although MDMA should be more stable in this respect
than safrole (with the methylamine group replacing the allyl group's 
double-bond).  Unless you've been keeping it in the dark and cold
(like in the freezer) it's probably (a) decomposed somewhat and (b)
absorbed things (water, etc...) from the air.  
	Pure organic chemical solids (like the ones people here are
interested in :) for the most part make large white monoclinic crystals.  If
a substance in question is chunky, powdery or discolored, then it
isn't pure.  (Professors in the O-Chem labs sometimes used to come around and
threaten us with bad grades just by visual inspection of our chemicals).

Note:  I've never made MDMA.  All the above comes from my Chemistry
background.  My advice would be to trash the 2-year old stuff.

-H-


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                        this line is not secure
power                   force                   motion                drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 15:16:36 1992
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992   14:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Life's meaning, less you fret so....

In-Reply-To: jocelyn@hal.com -- 11/24/92 19:09

both jocelyn and lee touch on the issue of 'going in circles'. i disagree
though  about this. this fractal dimensions of the universe which we
are entering upon raving is not so much circular as it is self-similar. it
is a little bit like moving up a helix: it seems we are in the same place but
we are 'higher' every time we come back to the same point on the x-y axis (
the helix is going up the z-axis) in this self similar part of the universe,
the feeling of deja vu comes in having similar experiences in ourselves -
our id, ego, super-ego - and  in groups of people. it is that though  the
scale of things has changed, the type of relationships is similar.
hope this is not too dense.
take care/rave on/shalom/salaam
ovid

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 15:25:39 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Wed, 25 Nov 92 15:14:26 PST
Subject: raving vs. nonraving

here]s a thought: (and by this point in the week i]m glad i]m still
having them)
people seem to be appologetic about bringing up non-rave stuff. but
everyone seems to be doing it. therefore, i think it becomes rave
stuff. if anyone has the idea that raving is simply the music,
drugs, and wharehouse, then perhaps they]re missing the fibers that
can keep raving alive, important, and positive. a ravenet seems to
be more about ravers raving then about the map point for the next
big one and how much we all love whatever dj. i think the relation
of the nets material to the subject of raving is in the various
apporaches people have. and i realy enjoyed reading the math and
physics eventhough my understandings fill a smaller portion of my
brain than IBM]s new xenon switch would if i knew what i could do
with it if i ever bought it. if you think it sucks finding
contacts..... anyway, raving i think is partially about
(re)transforming (and the (re) isn]t the usual deconstruction
assumption of both transforming and retransforming - i meant (re) as
an optional, for you logic buffs transforming or retransforming) (i
just realized my space saving tecnique didn]t work... sorry) anyway,
retransforming technology into matrices (sp?) of play. and
therefore, i think they should be welcome on the net.

and before i go crazy - what does IMHO and BTW stand for anyway?
pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 15:25:52 1992
From: PGRASSI@scuacc.scu.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 15:16 PST
Subject: Re: Toons

Great to see so many going, I'll be there wearing a black "BOY" t-shirt.
Other notes:  Funky-Teckno-Tribe will be at the Galleria Design Center
in S.F.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 15:26:09 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 14:33:44 PST
Subject: ???

>[It was] ... "the American doctor-poet Oliver Wendell Holmes who said (I
>cannot trace the exact quote) that every man should be a creature of
>his times, lest he be judged not to have lived."

Old quotes sound good but are often ambiguous at best, if not totaly meaningless. 
I mean, ponder that quote and ask your self if it really means anything.  Like
some hippy is gonna be any more or less remembered than any of us.  Most or all 
of us will probably be judged not to have lived anyway unless you do something
really noteable.  Like Asimov was really a creature of his times.  Besides, this
quote was said in the past.  Let's live in our time. ;-)

-Mark (feeling afraid to admit ever having attended the Rennaisance Faire)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 15:27:03 1992
From: gwh@lurnix.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 14:34:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Depression in winter 


I'm just getting over a case of it, which
was probably brought on by working conditions
rather than personal susceptability (I haven't
had it before).  Basically, I used to work in
a room that was pretty dark and has no windows.
10 days ago I moved to a bright room with a bunch
of windows, and I'm fine.  Summary: get light.
Get light during daylight hours is best.
Try and wake up when the sun comes up in the
morning and stay where it's brightly lit or
where you have windows etc. so you can tell
how bright it is out.

-george



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:09:34 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 15:57:07 PST
Subject: Re: Old ecstacy...

when you say trash the two year old stuff, is it because it is 
not safe to take, or because nothing will happen if i take it?

-thanks.

-mark.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:16:11 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 16:04:39 PST
Subject: Re: Toons

ok-  if anyone wants to come up and say hi, i'll be wearing a funky purple
beanie, and i don't know what else. (but i will be wearing more than that)..

:)

-mark.   ps  happy thanksgiving!

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:20:32 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 16:07:10 PST
Subject: Re: Old ecstacy...

Were I Mark Baldwin, I might have said this:
> 
> when you say trash the two year old stuff, is it because it is 
> not safe to take, or because nothing will happen if i take it?
> 
> -thanks.
> 
> -mark.
> 

I said to trash it mostly because I have no idea what it would be like
if you took it.  It probably wouldn't hurt you, but I'm not a doctor
so I just don't know what it would do.  It doesn't seem to be worth
the possibility of extra annoying side effects to take the chance that
your X is still potent.  It's not all that difficult to find X, and
even if you couldn't find any the parties this weekend will be fun
anyway.  Ask yourself this: would you have more fun not taking X and
going to a rave, or taking 2 yr. old X and having to worry that it may
cause a really bad burnout?  (Not that you'd be prone to worrying
about things while you are on X :).

Anyway, that's my advice, for what it's worth.  

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                        this line is not secure
power                   force                   motion                drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:23:03 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 16:01:11 PST
Subject: ???

	You made a lot of good points in your post, except for the last sentence in
	which you completely reiterate what I am opposed to.  I think there is a big
	difference in being a hippy than in being a Scotsman or a memeber of a religious
	organization.  You disagree with me on that.  We can continue this discussion,
	but it isn't central to my point.  My argument is against recycling old styles
	and old things.  It's for creating something new, something we can claim as our
	own, rather than relying on the creativity of past generations.

	Kevin

Not to be snide or anything but you might want to take an ART History
overview, you will find that next to NOTHING is truely original in human
culture, I would say a conservative estimate is 10% new 90% old.
(I really wanted to say 2% new 98%  old but thought that would be argumentative:)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:26:04 1992
From: "Al Vanderworp" <avanderw@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 16:17:53 PST
Subject: RE: old E

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU's message of 11-25-92 16:11


I'll take that old E!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Don't throw it away yet!!!!

- TAX


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:30:28 1992
From: SHALAKO (technokachina) <sscoen@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 19:17:48 EST
Subject: ???


the problem though, is that history repeats itself. it has alwas been thus.
fashion, art, philosophy, etc all travel in a cycle. right now the cycle is
about 30 years... ideas become popular, then fade away. later peaople realize
that that idea which had faded out had some meaningful substance, and begin to
study it again. it has always been this way, and so shall it be in the end...

my god! i sound like a bible thumper! ahhhhhhhhhh <self strangulation occurring>

-SHALAKO <technokachina>
"To achieve ravelightenment is to live in the most blissful of consciousnesses."

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:30:50 1992
From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 14:49:19 -0800
Subject: Re: toons

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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 12:03:42 PST
From: uunet!ganymede.apple.com!mark (Mark Baldwin)
Message-Id: <9211252003.AA07564@ganymede.apple.com>
To: larryc@netcom.com, sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: toons
Status: R

KEWL-

so, so far it's me and larry, i'll be the one in a purple and pink striped
beanie (my favorite:) and i'm 6'3 and i'll be by the dj table and the pool
tables.

-mark.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	      I will be there to! The one that has not gone
	      to any kind of event for THREE(3) MONTHS.....
	      But anyway I will be the one with my good
	      ol' cLoBBeR cap that is lookin pretty worn
	      down.  

	      =noah= He who breaths the lurking dust and coughs
		     to escape to the vast opening....


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:56:44 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 16:20:38 PST
Subject: ???

>You made a lot of good points in your post, except for the last sentence in
>which you completely reiterate what I am opposed to.  I think there is a big
>difference in being a hippy than in being a Scotsman or a memeber of a religious
>organization.  You disagree with me on that.  We can continue this discussion,
>but it isn't central to my point.  My argument is against recycling old styles
>and old things.  It's for creating something new, something we can claim as our
>own, rather than relying on the creativity of past generations.

>Kevin

There's nothing new under the sun - or not much anyway.  Name one style or thing
that isn't dirrectly hinged off of, tottaly reminescent of, or a blatant re-hash
of some other style or thing.  Evolution isn't just for life forms anymore.
BTW, being a hippy is being a member of a religous organization to many.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:57:03 1992
From: winston@figaro.lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 15:43:23 PST
Subject: ???

>and before i go crazy - what does IMHO and BTW stand for anyway?
>pat


BTW (By the way)  
IMHO (In My Humble Opinion - which usualy isn't)

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 16:59:56 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 16:47:30 PST
Subject: happy holidays

Have a nice Thanksgiving, everyone!

Hope to see some o' ya this weekend.

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                        this line is not secure
power                   force                   motion                drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 17:10:42 1992
From: dkl@frame.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 16:57:36 PST
Subject: 



>the problem though, is that history repeats itself.

History doesn't repeat itself... Historians merely repeat
each other!     


:-)


-dkl


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 17:20:16 1992
From: kxbehni@srv.pacbell.com (Keyvan Behnia)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 17:12:07 PST
Subject: the very first raver


old vs new.
that is a worthless debate.

Perhaps reactionary vs revolutionary?

I can use 4000 singles to qualify
that 8.723 out of every 10 techno releases 
are lazy, shameless, rehashes.

last night I went to see PJ Harvey, a bright new hope
and then around 1am I put on the new Leonard Cohen album

it is called "the future"

he is an old flame.
but the 9 sad gems have taken my breath away, 
songs so good they linger into the next day like an x undertow

x! lenny cohen! could it be ... but of course

I am gonna go out tonite and spread the rumor 
that he was the very first raver.

Keyvan

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 17:40:10 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 17:32:36 PST
Subject: disco bashing


	Somewhere in all of the arguments about <<The Sixties!>>
I saw some disco-bashing.

Arrrggghhhh!!!!    >:(

I hate that.  I don't need to point it out, do I?  Disco spawned house,
which spawned acid-house and techno.  It's party-all-night, out of me
head bass music just like techno.  The art of DJing dance music came in
large part from disco...plus, all of the great samples it gives techno
artists are invaluable...

When I first went to raves, I thought it was so cool because (along
with many other reasons, of course) it was the revenge of disco...for
the longest time in America, dance music has been not taken seriously at 
best and subject to scorn (often homophobic) at the worst.  I myself also
love punk and postpuck rock, but when I was younger rock fans generally
hated dance music, except for maybe New Order or something.  Now, techno
and the closely related hip-hop (bring on the flames!) are in the same
position as punk, except you can dance to them.  Yay!  Disco lives. :)

Plus, how could you dis Chic or "Off the Wall"?

Jim  :)


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 17:50:22 1992
From: wpoe@chaph.usc.edu (William J. Poe)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 17:42:46 PST
Subject: new vs. old



To respond to Kevin Goldsmith about creating new things...

The way I see it, new things are always created by sampling from a
variety of old things...techno and rave culture in general are 
perfect examples.  It doesn't lessen the importance of the new
any to realize that, I don't think so anyway.  Where would
Altern8 be without 808 state, where would they be without
Phuture...Derrick May...Afrika Bambaata, Kraftwerk and George Clinton
....etc. etc..
It's a constant process.  In fact, it's even being sped up now 
because of sampling technology and postmodern insanity.

Jim :)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 17:51:58 1992
From: "Glenn Fajardo,Cnslt" <manutius!msmailgw!Glenn_Fajardo#m#Cnslt@uunet.uu.net>
Date: 	25 Nov 92 16:23:41 U
Subject: 	RE: 60's stuff... 

"I might repeat to myself, slowly and soothingly, a list of quotations 
beautiful from minds profound -- if I could remember any of the damn things."
	- Dorothy Parker


Tigger#176#
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: Glenn Fajardo,Cnslt
From: uunet!ingres.com!andys on Wed, Nov 25, 1992 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: 60's stuff... 
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larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) said:
>
>  Kevin Goldsmith recently posted -
> 
> > 
> > I don't know about anyone else, but the relationship of raves to the 
> > 60's bugs me a lot. Again, I think it is my hippy-hating punk days that 
> > somewhat continue to have a grasp on me, but I'm glad I wasn't around in 
> > the 60's, and I wish people wouldn't continue to look back on them as the 
> > heydey of American Civilization.  
> 
>  As someone who's only a two or three years older than Siouxie Siouxe, I can
> understand some of your feelings. In the late 80's, I was talking to this
> Mod Revival gal who was pining for the 60's - I told her that it didn't make
> much sense, because then she'd still be alive in the present, but 15 years
> older. I told her that, instead of wishing to be alive then, she should 
> make the most of living in the present.

I read a quote in the paper this week which this reminded me of:

[It was] ... "the American doctor-poet Oliver Wendell Holmes who said (I
cannot trace the exact quote) that every man should be a creature of
his times, lest he be judged not to have lived."

I think this is a useful comment about people living in the past.

-Andrew



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 18:28:32 1992
From: Paul Richard <prichard@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 18:21:15 -0800
Subject: Profound admiration, respect and gratitude

Thanx to all of you who responded to my post concerning raving and
rave-hating significant others.  There was a lot of great info that I have
available as a part of the possible rave manifesto.  More than the info, the
amount of love contained in the messages was and is truly awesome.  Thanks
for the advice and the concern.

And for those interested in this weekend's solution:  I am negotiating a
visit to Credo tonight in return for a full holiday weekend with the SO at a
beautiful location in West Marin (to which I would have invited you after
the disastrous Sharon in Nicasio, and which may remain available for a
daytime sfraves raves in the spring -- a great house with a huge boathouse
next to Tomales Bay.  Now if anyone has any suggestions about getting rid of
neighbors for a couple of days we could extend it a bit.)

Soooooo, it looks like I will miss Basics, but not to worry, I will see all
of you at some point in the not to distant future.

Keep it alive; keep lovin each other.  Happy Thanksgiving.

Paul

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 19:49:05 1992
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.uu.net (P. Couch)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 18:45:49 PST
Subject: Live 105 "Rave" Room

A friend of mine won tix to Live 105 Listener Appreciation Party
last week and invited me along.
There were a bunch of bands in the main room,a bunch
of other stuff, and a RAVE room.
The rave room is a good size bare rectangular room 
(2,3 times the alternity basement)and has planets projected on the walls
and a bunch of equipment and light beams in front.
The acoustic was terrible and the sound was echoing all over the
place, the word that came to mind was "harsh". There were a handfull
of people in there, some of them trying to dance,
It was so loud and obnoxious that I couldn't even stay for 5 min
in that room. Most of the people there looked like they were from San Jose
Suburbs and walked in and out with that "Is this what a rave is" look.

P.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 20:22:26 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 20:13:07 PST
Subject: My God (was: Live 105 "Rave" Room

Were I Phoebe, I might have said this:
> 
> A friend of mine won tix to Live 105 Listener Appreciation Party
> last week and invited me along.
> There were a bunch of bands in the main room,a bunch
> of other stuff, and a RAVE room.
> The rave room is a good size bare rectangular room 
> (2,3 times the alternity basement)and has planets projected on the walls
> and a bunch of equipment and light beams in front.
> The acoustic was terrible and the sound was echoing all over the
> place, the word that came to mind was "harsh". There were a handfull
> of people in there, some of them trying to dance,
> It was so loud and obnoxious that I couldn't even stay for 5 min
> in that room. Most of the people there looked like they were from San Jose
> Suburbs and walked in and out with that "Is this what a rave is" look.
> 
> P.
> 

Cheezus.  I heard them bragging about this ('a packed pumping crowd') so
I immediately knew it was lame...  The same sort o' feeling as at Meat
Beat Manifesto when the 'Communion's hottest DJ'  played temple
of dreams and we all looked at each other and started laughing.
'Rave Room'.  Oh well.


C'ya,
-H-

(and I even LIKE temple of dreams :)
-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                        this line is not secure
power                   force                   motion                drive
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 21:14:34 1992
From: murphy@ucscb.ucsc.edu (eris)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 20:11:53 -0800
Subject: ride help

this is probably tooooo late but I was wondering if anyone from santa cruz
or the near vicinity could take a friend of mine and i to toons and energizer
(assuming it's not 21 up. i should check)  I haven't been to a rave since
LIghthouse 1 and i read all the posts on tonights rave and saw how many of
you were showing up and i got soooo happy that i will beg oh please a ride
online.  If you're logged on, talk request me or call my living room phone
number (408)426-7383. Thanks thanks thanks and if I don't end up going or
seeing anyone there, have a great time and I hope to reacquaint myself with
you all again some time soon!  Take care!
-marlo:)  [who still hasn't caught up on her sfraves mail since last month]
               *sigh*   

   O     O
\___________/

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 21:26:38 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Wed, 25 Nov 92 21:21:02 PST
Subject: credo tonight

hey i]m going to credo. i]ll be wearing a big cat in the hat hat and
a star trek tng looking shirt (you]]l figure it out) please say hi.
pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 21:53:10 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 21:48:29 -0800
Subject: re: raving vs. nonraving


small idea - i think raving is a reaction to society and what society thinks,
does, believes, etc.  all the things that have been discussed are a part of
society and are therefore related (however distantly) to the rave culture.  
sure, sometimes the discussions get a little out of hand and a little chaotic
at times, but i guess that's just entropy for ya.... =)  anyway, it's all 
connected somehow and somewhere, i guess... although i must admit that some
of those threads have lost me after a while.  just being the clueless wonder
as usual... q8)

always, leah

=)


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 21:54:45 1992
From: Jessie Jaeger <jjaeger@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 21:48:43 -0800
Subject: underaged events


My friend's little sister is visiting for Thanksgiving... anyone out there
have any ideas for a ravey-type event we can take her to?  She isn't yet
eighteen (sorry!) which is why we are having problems coming up with something
she can get into. 

Any ideas or suggestions can be mailed to lcompton@ella.mills.edu.  Events
should preferrably be in the North Bay or East bay, etc.

Andrea

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 25 22:14:28 1992
From: rth@netcom.com (Robert Hughes)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 22:06:22 -0800
Subject: Deep Faith ....


I noticed this wasn't on Brian's list for Thursday, but MykL G said it was
on. I heard rumours of fire and police at the location last weekend and 
wondered if anyone was more up to date. I like the space and they only 
tried the free beer bit once ....

rth@netcom.com

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 26 04:45:23 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 4:35:45 PST
Subject: Toon'ed Out/Lewd-Lite Energizer


 What happened to all the folks that where going to the Toons club and
Energizer?

 The two SFRavers that I met at Toons were Noah and Pete Gracious ( Pete -
is your health better ?). I lost track of Noah after the first hour - I left
the club at about 12:15 - the space was too small for the crowd they had.


 So, I went to the Energizer, at One Step Beyond in Santa Clara. When I got 
there, the dance floor only had a dozen folks on it - by 1:30, the dance 
floor was comfortably full.

 Something at Energizer I've never seen before - a white sheet screen, 
backlit so that the shadows of dancers behind the screen were projected onto
the screen. Mostly gals - the "lewd-lite" part was when they would do
stylized , aerobic intercourse with each other and a male dancer. Mostly, 
they just danced. Caught a lot of mostly-male attention,tho'.

 Where were the SFRavers at Energizer? Pete Gracious wasn't feeling well at 
Toons, so I knew he wasn't going to show up. Two guys came up to me and
shook my hand, but I don't think they were SFRavers. ( I was wearing my
Disney Goofy character t-shirt ).

i In any case, I had a good time at Energizer. The crowd was in a good mood.
One Step Beyond wasn't letting in any backpacks or water bottles, but there 
was free water at the bar, and the cheapest smart drinks I've ever see
, $2.50 -$3.00 per drink.

------

 Good night/morning! Beddy-bye time for me -

					Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com

-- 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 26 12:32:06 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 12:25:33 -0800
Subject: Re:  Deep Faith ....

>I noticed this wasn't on Brian's list for Thursday...

It was under weeklies, since I'm assuming it's going to happen every
week.  I really like the Hardkiss crew and sound and would encourage
you all to go their parties - they've always treated me like family. :)

	brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 26 17:04:03 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 16:53:46 PST
Subject: FunkyTeknoTribe


Well troops, I called FunkyTeknoTribe and they said it was
at the "Galleria Design Center" in SF, a new indoor/outdoor
location.  I did a little research and it's on Henry Adams,
which starts where 8th meets Townsend.  They said that it
included an afterhours party for a total 24 hours of raving.
Could be fun.  Anyone going to Deep Faith tonight?

leg of eel

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 26 23:11:28 1992
From: Steven Collins <stevie@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 23:04:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Depression in winter (and coincidences)

There's a three page article on Seasonal Affective Disorder on page 87
of the November Vegetarian Times.  No, I won't type it in, ya
cheapskates.

So, I was wandering bored around the Salt Lake City Airport when i was
thinking I shoulda had some SFravers meet me and entertain me even tho
I've never talked to him/them personally, Salt Lake SFravers that is
hey we all look out for each other right.  So just about the moment I
was thinking that I hear "Thomas ASHDOWN, Thomas ASHDOWN, please meet
your party at gate 23.8" or something like that.  I didn't check it
out, I can only take that much, and maybe ashdown is a mor popular
name than I think...

Speaking of that, anyone want to come entertain me at Salt Lake on my
return flight on Monday...we could have fun, going around asking all
the old white people, "EXCUSE ME, HOW DO _YOU_ LIKE MY NOSERING?"  or
something like that.  Or ask the food service people, "hey, do you
have anything that isn't made with DEAD, ROTTING STINKING FLESH?!"  Or
maybe we could even not be obnoxious.  There's such a wide variety...

Stevie.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 01:31:40 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Fri, 27 Nov 92 01:24:23 PST
Subject: raving vs. nonraving

REPLY TO 11/25/92 19:35 FROM mailer "Network Mailer": Undelivered mail

Pat Dote says
>people seem to be appologetic about bringing up non-rave stuff. but
>everyone seems to be doing it. therefore, i think it becomes rave
>stuff.

I agree whole heartedly with this.  What I like most about raves is
the social
aspect of it and the wide variety of people I meet thus bringing
forth a wide
variety of topics.  I am an information sponge, I love to learn
about anything
and everything.

Even when the conversation is over my head I try to get something
out of it and
add to it by asking questions or putting sometype of input in. I
beleive that
this type of listening is extremely important in relationships.  I
am just
getting over a old relationship (marriage) that the lack of this
type of
communication led to a breakup.

I have been loving all the subject on this net it has been very
diverse and
enlightening. Even though some of the topics have been a little over
my head, I
have wanted to contribute to all of them but am I am already pushing
the limit
with the posts that I have been making.

Now for something completely different.

I Will be going to Tahoe this weekend thus missing the Energizer and
Toons
which I would love to go to.  I will be back Saturday but am trying
to stop
going to raves for a few weeks so I can get my homelife focused (we
will see
how long this last).

Have a great holiday weekend everyone, be very careful on the roads
and
elsewhere.

 Peace and Love Always


    XXXXX
   X     X
  X  NUT  X
   X     X
    XXXXX

To:  stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com

To:  mailer
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 06:51:09 1992
From: bryan myers<bmyers@andy.bgsu.edu>
Date:  Fri, 27 Nov 92 04:28:47 -0500
Subject: ???

Has anyone seen an Aphex Twin CD OTHER than Selected Ambient Works ?

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 06:51:31 1992
From: bryan myers<bmyers@andy.bgsu.edu>
Date:  Fri, 27 Nov 92 04:17:56 -0500
Subject: ???

In regard to the posting by geoffw about seasonal depression, I am
a scientist who studies such things.  Seasonal changes in mood MAY
reflect a CLINICAL syndrome known as SAD (Seasonal Affetive Disorder).
A subsequent post mentioned the hormone melatonin.  The role of this
pineal hormone on SAD is UNCLEAR at the present time.  People with
SAD do tend to have low levels of melatonin, however.  While on non-
rave topics, another potential side effect of E is panic attacks.
Several cases studies reporting panic attacks after E have been 
reported in professional journal (e.g., Biological Psychiatry).  The
strange thing is that like LSD flashbacks w/o E adminstration can
occur.  That is after taking E once, panic attacks may occur at any 
time.  Given the number of people regularly taking E and the few cases
of E-related panic attacks reported, the probability of any one user
experiencing panic attacks is very low, however.  I neither condemn 
nor condone E, the above is just FYI.  Sorry for wasting bandwidth
on non-rave topics !  In closing, listen to the Aphex Twin and you
will be saved ! Sincerely, TechnoThor (bmyers@well.sf.ca.us)  11.27.92

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 09:19:45 1992
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 09:11:42 -0800
Subject: Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Crystal Wet Techno


The FAQ is looking pretty good.  So of course I'm going to
complain about it. 

I think "progressive techno" is an *awful* name.  It reminds
me of "progressive" rock, a dull name for a dull form of
music that almost killed rock n' roll... I tend to blame it
for the dancing interregnum in the mid-seventies...

Why should we let a "music magazine" define ourselves?  I
would trust Jon, Brian, or any random gathering of people
on this list to come up with a term that's more descriptive
and not as much of a dead end as this. 

So let's invent one, and start using it and see how long it
takes to catch on. 

So, working off of Jon's description.... 

	This is the newest and least-well-defined genre;
	it's based less on sampling, less on wailing divas,
	and less on hip-hop culture, and more on authentic
	instruments, haunting melodies, and always around
	120-125bpm.  There's always a strong beat, and at
	times it resembled acid jazz.... Good examples: "Cry
	Freedom" by Mombassa, "Mighty Ming" by Brother Love
	Dubs

Here are some of my tries: 

Whole House     
Haunted House
Natural Techno
Cryptic   "
Mighty    "
Free Wing  "
Soft Core   "
Crystal   "          (Crystallized?)
Wet       "          (as in wetware).
Preternatural  "     (well, okay.  But I kind of like it.) 

Anyway, none of these sound great to me, but any one of them
is better than "progessive".  

And really... while I do believe that these taxonomic
systems can be a valuable tool, I really do think people are
getting out of control, always trying to come up with names
for the slightest little musical variation.  Maybe it's time
to come up with an anti-category, a name that just means it
doesn't fit any other category very well?

It's not hard to come up with adjectives for that one...
Unified, Merged, Melded, Unchained, Integrated, Anarchic,
Unbranded, Uncharted, Lawless, Nonsectarian, or maybe
Patched Pigeon ('cause it has too many holes in it)...


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 10:30:12 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 10:18:07 PST
Subject: Re: FunkyTeknoTribe

> Well troops, I called FunkyTeknoTribe and they said it was
> at the "Galleria Design Center" in SF, a new indoor/outdoor
> location.

New?  That's where CyberSpider was a year ago Halloween...

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 11:04:12 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 10:55:39 -0800
Subject: Re:  Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Crystal Wet Techno

I totally agree.  We really do need a new name for "progressive" house - 
I don't like the term either but it's the only one that's ever been 
mentioned in connection to these songs, and the music is different enough
from "house music" that I feel it needs some sort of appellation.  I
didn't like the other ones Doom came up with... howbout "Natural House"?
"Acoustic House"?  Think about what effect this brand of music has on
you, what sort of visions are conjured up by it...

	Brian

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 11:30:30 1992
From: kellyd@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (David Kelly)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 14:06:28 EST
Subject: Re:  Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Crystal Wet Techno

Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu> writes:

> I totally agree.  We really do need a new name for "progressive" house - 
> I don't like the term either but it's the only one that's ever been 
> mentioned in connection to these songs, and the music is different enough
> from "house music" that I feel it needs some sort of appellation.  I
> didn't like the other ones Doom came up with... howbout "Natural House"?
> "Acoustic House"?  Think about what effect this brand of music has on
> you, what sort of visions are conjured up by it...

I think the best term for it right now was coined by the Guerilla label 
which is one of the labels at the forefront of this style of music: 'dub 
house'..

Anyone who is interested in the sound should listen to anything on the 
Guerilla label (React 2 Rhythm, Supereal, Drum Club are good examples)..  
There is also a good compilation (for you CD types) on Rumour Records 
called 'Trance' (to make things more confusing!) that is mainly 
progressive/dub house stuff..  Some is trance but most is prime 
progressive/dub house..  Acorn Arts II, Herbal Infusion, Uncle Bob's 
Burly House are all good examples of the exact kind of music I think of 
when I hear that 'term' progressive house..

Stupid term - yes, but that is the term that everyone seems to have 
started using..  Might be hard to change that now..

KD

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 11:59:09 1992
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlqn.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 19:45:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Crystal Wet Techno

>>>>> On Fri, 27 Nov 92 14:06:28 EST, kellyd@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (David Kelly) said:

  David> I think the best term for it right now was coined by the
  David> Guerilla label which is one of the labels at the forefront of
  David> this style of music: 'dub house'..

Didn't they call it `dub house disco' or was that someone else?
(Confusingly, Mixmag suggested the name `dub house' for things like
the Orb.)

--
Roy Badami, Harlequin Ltd, Barrington Hall, Barrington, Cambridge,  U.K.
Internet: roy@harlqn.co.uk               UUCP: ..!mcsun!uknet!harlqn!roy

When we reach that point, whatever happenned _will_ happen again...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 12:12:06 1992
From: Frederick.Wolf@um.cc.umich.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 15:03:46 EST
Subject: Re:  Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Crystal Wet Techno

My addition to alternate terms for 'progreesive' house:
Organic house.  though it may be too vegetable, it kind
of has a nice ring...
 
-
fred                                fwolf@um.cc.umich.edu
-

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 13:31:36 1992
From: kellyd@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (David Kelly)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 16:00:41 EST
Subject: Re: Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Crystal Wet Techno

Roy Badami <roy@harlqn.co.uk> writes:

> Didn't they call it `dub house disco' or was that someone else?
> (Confusingly, Mixmag suggested the name `dub house' for things like
> the Orb.)

Yes..  That was the name of their compilation - 'dub house disco'..  But
I think they just shortened it to 'dub house'..

I'll have to check where I read about that term (dub house), I think it 
was in DJ Magazine which I don't at the moment have with me..
That issue of DJ Magazine has a full article about 'progressive house' 
and after you read it, you STILL have no idea what it sounds like..  :)

Actually the term 'dub house' wouldn't be all that bad for a group like 
The Orb either..  I just would balk at the word 'house' in that case..

Terms generally seem to come about from music-reviewers that don't review 
well enough to be able to explain a song without saying 'this is .. ' 
<insert term here>..

While we are on the subject of classifications and the faq, I would have 
to say I think of Future Sound of London more as progressive/dub house 
than trance..  Trance, at least to me, is more like 'The Age of Love' by
The Age of Love or 'Shift' by Havanna..

KD

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 14:48:45 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 14:01:25 PST
Subject: Re:  Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Crystal Wet Techno

When I try to describe this type of music to people, I use the term

	EPIC TECHNO

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 15:18:40 1992
From: caliban@ucscb.ucsc.edu (tempestual geometry)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 15:10:50 -0800
Subject: deadheads


	well, none.  they just watch the light bulb burn out
	and follow it around the countrt for years.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 16:16:37 1992
From: M.Steven Bankston <solutron@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 16:04:14 -0800
Subject: Re:  panorama

Sterns Grove is a fantastic place, deep in a bowl where sound doesn't really
echo out.  Very good vibe there, even smells good from all the eucalyptus
trees (thus the "Grove" in Stern's Grove), and has lots good parking, etc.
Only problem is that it is daytime only if that causes you grief.  I'd like
it a lot cause its 2 blox from my house.  Also, last weekend I went to Angel
Island which has some truly spectacular views, very large open spaces, and
would also be a great place for an informal daytime rave.  (Hi back Mykl!).
(Hi2Andy2).  Steve B.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 16:37:56 1992
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992   16:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: fri., sat. raves

couple of flyers i picked up recently :
whoopy's nightmare, nov. 27th
call (415) 544-0113

also, trilogy-G.O.S presents
DJ unity '92, sat., nov. 28th
with dj's
john debo(boston)
ralph falcon (miami)
noel buck scott-hardkiss ghost (sf)
terry-mullins carlos-roldan (chicago)
brad-vachel(portland)
dj onionz(ny)
koolaid la)
visuals by pure lazer
show by brad
sound by boomboy
smart bar by tina
info lines
415.995.2313
510.888.4963
916.484.3750
408.540.8613

take care/n-joi
ovid

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 17:26:12 1992
From: M.Steven Bankston <solutron@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 17:17:52 -0800
Subject: Re:  The Horns of a Dilemma

I doubt if this will be of interest to the un-partnered, so kill here if so
inclined....  Paul, I've found my own partner to be most concerned when I
start to "explain the importance of" pretty much anything, which is NOT a
cut at her.  It seems that when I find some kewl noo playtime activity I
(and maybeo others herein?) get so enthusiastic I start to give it an
importance out of all proportion to the rest of my life.  What to me seems
like letting a loved one in on a good thing seems to said luvd one to be one
step from cultism if I babble too much.  Things generally seem to go better
when I enjoy self at rave or whatever, but don't give her the belief that
the outside activity is 1) better than our mutual partnering and 2) that she
isn't welcome in any way.  Some things can't be shared, but some folx need
to know that they are welcome to try.  If on the other hand your partner is
telling you that you have to play by rules you don't participate in setting,
maybe that pattern is apparent elsewhere in your partnering too.  Good luck.
I suspect that there are several of us out here that have had that
"partner doesn't approve" thang happen.  What do others do?  Steve B.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 17:46:39 1992
From: M.Steven Bankston <solutron@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 17:37:59 -0800
Subject: Re:  Depression in winter

I used to live in Alaska (7 years) in a number of locales where there was
always a "cabin fever" clinic.  "Cabin Fever" was the old-time miners' name
for the severe depression that occurs when not enuf light is available.  THe
standard folklore line in AK was that it was the pineal gland that was
responsible, but I cant speak for that hypothesis.  What I can say is that
you need at least one full hour a day exposed to full spectrum sunlight to
stay healthy, but it takes many weeks to develop symptoms.  Unless you live
in a light restrictied locale (like North England, Canada or AK) you
probably don't have the light-oriented depression problem.  If you think you
have a problem, an hour walk at lunchtime daily, or exposure to
full-spectrum light bulbs should do the trick.  Steve.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 17:55:56 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 17:45:13 PST
Subject: insane mailer

An experiment I tried with elm went awry and may have mailed spurious
messages to several of you on the list... sorry if you just got a
garbaged message from me.

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                       			   howard@netcom.com
		      It's a fantasy, it's a nightmare     
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 18:42:27 1992
From: "ANN-MARGARET LITTLE" <LITTLE@cellbio.stanford.edu>
Date: 27 Nov 92 18:26:00 PST
Subject: Ecstasy: rave now, pay later?

This is a late addition to the not-quite-so-recent correspondence on Ecstasy....
It only took me two weeks to type :-Z,

This letter appeared in "The Biochemist" Oct/Nov, 1992 which is the bi-monthly
newsletter for the British Society of Biochemists (I think)

Ecstasy: rave now, pay later?

The hallucinogenic amphetamine "Ecstasy" (methylendioxymethamphetamine,MDMA)
is the illegal drug with the fastest growth in popularity over the past few
years. Scarcely a week goes by without a newspaper report or a television
programme about MDMA: a new seizure of a record quantity of the drug or 
the death of someone who has taken Ecstasy. Use of this drug is now firmly
established in youth culture in the UK., and is closely associated with the
popular "rave" music: the pounding 100 beats-per-minute of the music is 
mirrored in the rapid heart beat induced by Ecstasy. Many people regard this
drug as extremely safe, although this concept is no longer borne out by
recent clinical and neurochemical evidence.

In some parts of the world, MDMA was used clinically during psychotherapy
because the drug is said to lower emotional barriers which help communication
between the psychotherapist and patient.  Other effects of the drug are a 
euphoric mood elevation and alterations in perception that are similar to
those found with other hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD. In addition, Ecstasy
produces increased activity: and effect that is similar to d-amphetamine
(speed).  There are also many adverse side-effects of MDMA including 
temperature elevation, dehydration, increased cardiac output, arrhythmia
and hypertension.  In some cases the side-effects are lethal: death can
occur as a consequence of temperature elevation and dehydration, producing
haemorrhage, intravascular coagulation and rhabdomyolysis.  There were
over a dozen deaths attributed to Ecstasy last year, most of which occurred
when the drug users consumed MDMA at a night-club or party.

One of the main neurochemical actions of MDMA is that of an "indirect agonist"
of the neurotransmitter 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT).  MDMA binds to the 5-HT
transporter with high affinity and is thought to block t and d-amphetamine
which block the uptake of dopamine by blocking the dopamine transporter. 
Another effect of MDMA binding to the 5-HT transporter is the  induction
of a massive release of 5-HT from nerve terminals.  Thus, 5-HT which is 
released in many parts of the brain contributes to the mood-altering and 
temperature elevating effects of MDMA.  Released 5-HT also modulates the 
activity of other neurones, including the same dopamine cells which are
affected by cocaine and opiates.

One mystery of MDMA is why it produces hallucinogenic like effects when there
are other indirect 5-HT agonists (some are used clinically as anorexic and
antidepressant drugs) which do not.  One reason for this may be that MDMA
has a high binding affinity to other membrane proteins including the 
5-HT2 receptor subtype that is a known target for the hallucinogen, LSD.
Therefore this interaction may contribute to some of the hallucinogenic 
effects of MDMA.

It is not clear whether MDMA may be addictive, since animals will readily
self-administer the drug, but not to the same extent as cocaine,  nicotine
or opiates.  It is certainly not clear whether humans become addicted
to the drug, but in a similar way to cocaine or amphetamine, "binge" use
of MDMA is likely to lead to depletion of 5-HT stores in the brain that 
can lead to depression and anhedonia: these feelings may lead to more 
frequent drug use.

Does Ecstasy produce brain damage?

Apart form the worrying question of whether MDMA is addictive, there is also
a question of its potential neurotoxicity.  Much research, particularly at
John's Hopkins Medical School and the Addiction Research Centre in Baltimore,
has now been carried out on the long-term effects of MDMA of 5-HT neurones
in rodents and non-human primates.  These studies produce very consistent 
findings: that between 4 and 8 injections of MDMA (2.5-20mg/kg) profoundly
affects neurones which synthesise 5-HT.  Microscopic analyses show that 
markers of serotonin neurones simply disappear: levels of tryptophan hydroxylase
and the serotonin transporter protein are reduced markedly and levels of 
serotonin can drop to 20% of control levels in some brain regions.  These 
effects are long-lasting: in rats, serotonin levels did not recover
for two years after MDMA administration.

The neurotoxic component of MDMA is not known.  It is possible that MDMA 
enters 5-HT nerve terminals and is metabolised into a quinoid or other 
free-radical producing substance which can damage 5-HT neurones such as
tryptophan hydroxylase.  Another line of evidence suggests that the MDMA
neurotoxin may be a metabolite of dopamine. Whatever the toxin turns out to
be, it is a very interesting question since an understanding of the 
mechanism of MDMA-induced neurotoxicity may help unravel the mechanisms
of 5-HT cell death in the CNS.

The long-term consequences of MDMA abuse in man is not known. At the present
time, despite many years of effort, the precise role of the 5-HT system in
the human brain makes it difficult to predict the effects of 5-HT neurone
degeneration. Animals which have been injected with MDMA seem remarkably
normal considering the extent of their loss of serotonin.  In humans, the
suspicion is that loss of 5-HT will lead to long-term loss of control over
mood: perhaps anxiety or depression, or other effects such as psychosis or
Parkinson's disease which may result from loss of 5-HT control of dopamine
cells.  Indeed, there have been some reports of psychoses induced by long-
term MDMA use, but it is difficult to relate these cases directly to use
of the drug.  There is a clear need for further study into the effects 
of this drug on the human brain by use of techniques such as PET, in order
to assess whether MDMA will produce long-term neurological effects on any
of the hundreds of thousands of young people who continue to take this drug.

Marcus Rattray
Division of Biochemistry, UMDS, 
Guy's Hospital,
University of London
  


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 20:40:56 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 20:25:02 PST
Subject: Re:  Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Cry

Heigh ho folks--

EPIC TECHNO is a perfect name!  How
come I haven't seen comments on this one?


WE can start a trend!  It's like the cops
and rent-a-cops who ask you at raves if
you--no, no, it's worse than that!--it's WHAT
you've passed to someone!  Like in fourth grade
or Stalin's USSR or Big Brother Land (Give me
Lon Guy Land!)....we should mount a campaign,
a friend of ours, a fellow raver, suggests: we
should all bring candise, whatever, by the pocket-
ful to raves and hand them out as much and as often
as possible--maybe we can bite theis noxious
police state practice in the butt!  Comments?

World's second most positively anarchistic raver,
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 27 21:40:37 1992
From: Jessie Jaeger <jjaeger@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 21:30:32 -0800
Subject: any info on a record?


Maybe some of you oldtimers out there will remember... way back in May, during
the first SFRaves picnic, one of the Hardkisses (I think) played this really
cool white label record during one of their sets... the only identifiable
sound I remember is that the record had a Cocteau Twins and a Smiths sample
in it.  It was really good, as I recall... so good that, if it was ever
released, I want to buy it.

Does ANYONE have any info on this record????????????????

Andrea

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 01:34:46 1992
From: Steven Collins <stevie@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1992 01:27:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re:  The Horns of a Dilemma

OK, not that anyone asked me or anything, but my staunch stand on all
things relationship, especially lately, is Be As Independent as
Possible.  You're yr own person, after all.  Would you change your
religion for a partner?  (Some would, I suppose).  Well, whatdya think
ravin' is after all?  But that's just me, and there's a strong
possibility I might just be a bitter callous sonuvabich, so take this
a brick of salt.

Stevie "I ain't marryin' no Christians or carnivores, nope, not me"
Collins.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 02:10:34 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Sat, 28 Nov 92 02:02:49 PST
Subject: Re: raving vs. nonraving

REPLY TO 11/25/92 21:41 FROM doom@leland.Stanford.EDU: Re: raving vs. nonraving

well trust it 2 me 2 complic8 an already played issue even more.
BISTM (but it seems 2  me) 1 overarching problem w/ 1 list like the
industrial 1 & i am not a member there, b/ listen 2 people whine all
the time, is that everyone there spends all thier bandwith talking
about what is industri is tilde industrial (my editor doesn]t do
symbols). anyway, i guess that]s what i]m doing now, & i haven]t
thought of a decent way out yet other than 2 suggest the sfraves
community @ the moment seems interested in much more than the
physical space of raving, & that interest should B allowed, nay -
fostered. b/ as the community changes so will the all the
communicative directions. 2 much mail is > 1 legitim8 concern & IMHO
mayB people should post very helpful subject titles 2 make speed
deletions of the non interesting possible as well as B willing 2
take the conversation into the realm of the private ASAP.
in conclusion, as we write in common lisp:
(defun given-individual (defun real-world (defun communication
(defun raves (defun sfraves (defun given-individual) defun sfraves)
defun raves) defun communication) defun real-world) defun
given-individual) ERROR: attempt to call undefined function
given-individual.


BTW, now that i understand the lingo, i feel so much more
enlightened, empowered, & closer 2 all of U. MG (muchas gracias)
{B)= (cool ny beatnik smiley face w/ beret & goatee)
peace.
pat

To:  doom@leland.Stanford.EDU
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 02:37:29 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Sat, 28 Nov 92 02:30:09 PST
Subject: acid tab/ new faces

people originally posting interest in a proposed bay area ravezine,
i need help...... people willing to write a half page column on
either music reviews, new audio/ visual technology or tips - if its
o.k. with the guy who posted it i]d like to use the oil projector
story, and drugs, and fashion. i won]t get more specific. so far we
have an interview w/ our own brian :), and i]m supposed to talk to
spun and donovan... we]ll see.
i]m trying to get promoters to take out add space (like 1/8 of a
page for $15) this way we could distribute the proposed 1000 copies
for free one weekend. its going to be around 5 double-sided, l black
and white, 8.5 by 5.5 pages. anyway if there]s anything else anyone
wnats to submit, just tell me.

oh, and just for humor - new faces.
$] - person on drugs.
#] - person on good drugs

&:) - bob]s big boy
+) - mutant
@:) - superman or elvis
*) - mutant on drugs
=o - stess case
{B)= - supercool beatnik pat with beret, shades, and goatee
pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 09:43:58 1992
From: Frederick.Wolf@um.cc.umich.edu
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 12:34:44 EST
Subject: A Number of Names

Last week my brother picked up a mystery box of old DJ records
from record time ($5 for 30 'surprises'), and he ended up
mainly with some pretty anonymous disco from the late '70s
(+ a copy of Boogie Oogie Oogie!), and one record which
is really intruiging:  it's by a group (?) called
A Number of Names with two songs 1. Skitso and 2. Sharevari.
The record company is Quality Records out of Ontario CA and
it was pressed in 1982.  This sounds like some pretty serious
techno precursor music, and it even predates Cybotron by
1 year!  Does anybody know who made this music, or
any thing else about it?

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 15:36:09 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 15:25:31 PST
Subject: Recommendations

Knowing full well that "raving is the ultimate subjective experience"
(from Brian's FAQ!), I can't resist the temptation to comment on a
couple of upcoming events.

About "Funky Tekno Tribe" tonight:  it's not exactly a "new" space, as has
been claimed.  The Galleria was the site of CyberSpider on Halloween a
year ago.  It's about as far from underground as you could imagine --
the building is home to high-fashion interior design showcases and has
a very sterile commercial atmosphere.  Aside from that, I'm told that
the people behind it are none other than our Feel-X friends.  If at all
possible, I'd opt for the drive to Vallejo for Basics.

On a more upbeat note, what I've heard about Cumulus next weekend
is piquing my interest big-time:  apparently they have an incredibly
cool site not far from the city (would you believe -- a vacant supermarket?)
and have the approval of all the right local bureaucracies.  Plus (and this
is *just* a rumor so don't hold me responsible  ;^) Garth might be added
to the lineup.

Remember, no matter what you do and where you do it, you *are* the light,
so beam on, all!

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 16:28:29 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 15:37:16 PST
Subject: Epic Wirters!


Call for Writers:

We've been infested with so many manifestoes
and people have gotten rather testy about the
testimonials, but within all that there have
been gems that lie ready to mine in the 200 or
so pages I've printed up in the last few months.
Whenever someone had comments about their views
or experiences related to the raves scene, I let
the old imagewriter rip, so maybe this is more
a quarry than a mine, but there's good stuff
here: so, pat and others interested in publication,
check your computer's back pages--or I'll be
happy to help, too.  Some of this stuff is worth
preserving!

I'd like to see something by geoffw!

World's second oldest closet writer,
Will


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 17:08:23 1992
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1992 17:01:59 -0800
Subject: Orbital video

Has anyone else seen the Orbital video of 'Halcyon'?  Pretty typical
offbeat UK video, but a nice tune.  It played this week on a local
video show called 'Killing Time at the Sematary' whose host, Eric Ullman,
shows how well you can do with little in the way of resources but lots
in the way of gumption.  Unlike D--- K-------.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 17:34:04 1992
From: murphy@ucscb.ucsc.edu (eris)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 17:26:48 -0800
Subject: calgon take me away NOW!

I really rally want to go to a rave tonight.  I am jonesing hardcore for
the feeling of a rave.  I must have it! OH my.  Anyway, really, I just miss
raves and if anyone from the Santa Cruz/Capitola area is going anywhere and
wouldn't mind a tag-along happy kid, I would gladly pay for gas money or
something.  Call me at (408)476-7383 or (408)464-3278.  Thanks again and
take care! bye byeeeeeeee!
-marlo:)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 17:38:35 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 17:29:33 PST
Subject: Re: Orbital video

> Has anyone else seen the Orbital video of 'Halcyon'?  Pretty typical
> offbeat UK video, but a nice tune.  It played this week on a local
> video show called 'Killing Time at the Sematary' whose host, Eric Ullman,
> shows how well you can do with little in the way of resources but lots
> in the way of gumption.  Unlike D--- K-------.

..................................Dead Kennedys?

I know, I know, I just thought it was a neat coincidence!  ;^)

- MykL G

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 17:46:56 1992
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 17:38:10 PST
Subject: Re: Orbital video

Were I MykL G, I might have said this:
> 
> > Has anyone else seen the Orbital video of 'Halcyon'?  Pretty typical
> > offbeat UK video, but a nice tune.  It played this week on a local
> > video show called 'Killing Time at the Sematary' whose host, Eric Ullman,
> > shows how well you can do with little in the way of resources but lots
> > in the way of gumption.  Unlike D--- K-------.
> 
> ..................................Dead Kennedys?
> 
> I know, I know, I just thought it was a neat coincidence!  ;^)
> 
> - MykL G
> 

Actually, I've seen DK on Killing Time...

How's Portland, Fred?

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                       			   howard@netcom.com
		      It's a fantasy, it's a nightmare     
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 28 19:28:32 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 18:57:42 PST
Subject: Ride Needed to Basics

Hi there from Santa Cruz--

Craig Larsen here, 408/426-4022,needs a ride 
to Basics!  I thought I'd get on here and
see if this goes out to anyone who can help.
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 01:56:44 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Sun, 29 Nov 92 01:49:40 PST
Subject: where? house?

REPLY TO 11/28/92 17:13 FROM ccowboy%ble%boo@ns.pacbell.com "Console Cowboy":
re: warehouse

i don]t care where you got the HOUSE comes from whareHouse info
from, i]m just glad we don]t go around listening to WHARE music, dig
the WHARE vibe, and wear WHARE wear.

it could be worse, the TWITCH people could remix LOLOGY music.

phew.... that was a close one.

i always thought the {ROOF, ROOF} thing came from the Q-Dogs (as in
omega psi phi) ]cause that]s where i first heard it.

{:)=
pat

To:  ccowboy%ble%boo@ns.pacbell.com
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 11:06:44 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 10:58:13 -0800
Subject: tape request


okay, quick request....

one of my friends back home is convinced that he _loves_ hardcore techno.
the reason i say it with some doubt is that he loves apotheosis, etc.  so,
i'd really love to take a tape home with me so that if he's gonna listen
to hardcore he can listen to some really new, different stuff.  since my 
taste runs with the slower beats, etc, (no, i never know what the types of
music i listen to are called), i really don't have anything that would be a
good example.  soooooo, if anyone has any suggestions of tapes i can buy
(preferably cheap), borrow, copy, whadeva, i'd really appreciate it.  of
course, i could also go home with just my tapes, pop one in, and see how he
likes garth or jeno.  anyway, if you've got ideas, thanks....

i'm leaving 19 dec...

always, leah

ps- andy, i guess my email didn't go through.  just wanted to tell ya that
if you want anything, i can bring it back - i'll be home from 19 dec to about
18 jan...



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 13:38:14 1992
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 13:26:52 PST
Subject: The Last (?) SFRaves DeadHeads Posting (?)

 
 
  In reply to the question : "How many deadheads does it take to screw in
 a lightbulb , tempestual geometry ( caliban@ucscb.ucsc.edu ) wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > 	well, none.  they just watch the light bulb burn out
 > 	and follow it around the countrt for years.
 > 
  
  To torture the analogy further, the Grateful Dead are like a light 
 fixture with a loose connection - it always puts out light, but it only
 puts out that sweet, intense light on special occasions. It's for those
 special times that DeadHeads are waiting for.
 
 			Happy Post-Thanksgiving/Xmas Shopping to All!
 
 				Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com
  

-- 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 14:13:51 1992
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 14:02:41 -0800
Subject: "The Rave Game" !!!!

 They just got "The Rave Game" in at HouseWares on Haight St.
...
Check it out, it's INCREDIBLE!!!!
Comes with a board,flyers,"Energy Tokens" ...etc.. it's quite a package...
They have 50 and I don't think they will last long!!
Price seems steep at $45.00 but you get a lot for the money, I think...
-Chris.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 18:04:28 1992
From: "Your friend, Mike {!)" <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 17:59 PST
Subject: Deep Faith in BaSiCs

Wow...whatta weekend!  Thought I would start off the weekend reports
and get things moving...

After thanksgiving, couldn't really deal with hanging out at home, and
since I was in the City, Zak and I went to deep Faith, and it was cool!
We got there waaaaaaaaay early...11pm for a thing that didn't get going
until 2:30, but it was a good time!  Dutch tore things up.  Ihad never
heard him before, and he went OFF.. Scott Hardkiss played some righteous
trance and was going well when we finally got going around 6...but it 
was a good time, and a perfect way to burn off Thankgiving foodstuffs.

Saturday night brought on Basics, the secondtolast one...and I had a ball.
I flippEd out hardcore (first time (ouch)) and it was a blast.  The djs
were really good, and they keptthe tunes going, especially with the
Garth then Jeno closing up the night.  It was my first time staying until the
end (odd that I would have the nrg, huh?)..the space was a lot better
than the last one, they basically split the place in two, once
dance area, the other the hangout chill purchase area...too many lights
in the latter, but that's okay, I chilled for about 5 minutes total out there
anyway.  Was a pleasure to see MyklG and SusieG there, a fantastic 
time to meet people.  The vibe was pretty good, not as communal as Destiny,
but it wa a good time, well worth the $10 before 11 admission.

No laser, which I like, bu fairly good visuals.  I thught the sound was pretty
damn clean, and enjoyed many a beat resting on the speaker...

the blinky served the community well, as usual, people really got into it.

Other than that, I am exhausted, and I am probalby leaving a lot out,
but it was a good time, much better than the previous basics.  The
last one should be a great finale.

take care and attempt to have a good weak.

"I am NOT burned out, I am just..._tired_."


mi
ke
#)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 18:39:33 1992
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 18:31:36 PST
Subject: scene in Hawaii?

a friend will be spending the coming weekend (4-6 dec) in Waikiki.
does anybody know if there's any raving to be had near there?  any
info appreciated.  if he finds anything interesting we'll report back.
thanks, - bob (rjesse@oracle.com)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 18:52:26 1992
From: faerie@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Dara Ruth Papo)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 18:44:34 -0800
Subject: FTT and stolen tape :(


i was working at the joURnees booth, and we have videos playing, and people
really seem to enjoy them..
the tapes usually sit off the side of the player so they can be changed at
whim..

only thing was, when we were starting to pack up, we noticed that one tape was
gone!
everyone was very upset, and it really saddened me.
oi know that it was not the USUAL close knit feeling that one tends to get at
parties and such, but i get very upset and saddened when things are stolen,
especially things that are their for people's enjoyment..
i need to start going to some smaller and more friendly parties..
thanks for letting me vent!

-d.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 20:29:36 1992
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 20:07:28 PST
Subject: re:"wareHOUSE," "roof" and other folk etymologies

Cowboy--

I think your console humour is priceless
even if as etymology it's 100% bogus. I
think you have the potential for researching
the whole rave glossary, like where did
"rave" itself originate, and "FAQ" as well as
"technoshamanism."  The list as well as the
possibilities are endless and you'll have
a spot on the humour page in either Pat's
projected publication (if Pat likes your
humour also) or the first anniversary
anthology of raving gems from sfraves that
Brian is going to publish with all our help
(right, Brian?)! Waddaya think, gang?

World's second most voluble raver
(look THAT up in your Funk & Wagnalls),
Will

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 29 21:55:41 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 21:48:56 -0800
Subject: Trip to LA, Sharing an apartment, and the SFRaves Anthology


	Okay, so call me a geek for combining three separate subjects 
into one letter. :)

	I spent this past thanksgiving at home in LA (and had net.access
thanks to a good friend at Caltech), so of course I made the obligatory
pilgramage to Melrose.  I came armed with a list of songs I had culled
from recommendations by DJ's and others, and walked into three different
record stores, Prime Cuts, Street Sounds, and DMC.  I was able to find
_some_ of them (Liberty City, Mombassa's "Cry Freedom", "Transient Truth"
by one Dove, etc.)  but most of the ones I really wanted no one had even
heard of (Eden Transmission's "I'm So High", "Mighty Ming" by Brother Love
Dub, Lemon Interrupt, "Holy Ghost" by the Mad Monks of Zinc, etc.)  I also
spent a LOT of time pulling 12's at random and giving them a spin.  It
began to dawn on me then how different LA and SF were musically - it may 
have been the headphones, or the atmosphere in the record stores, but just
about 95% of what I pulled seemed to be hardocre breakbeat stuff or cheesy
take-off's of familiar themes.  I just about tossed my cookies when I heard
a techno remix of the William Tell Overture.  I dunno... I found the Aphex
Twin ambient CD so that got me really happy.  Bryan was looking through the
"A" section and found this one yellow-vinyl 12" called "Acid Junkies" on
DJAX-UP that I've been looking for ever since Garth played it at a FMR in 
July.  Color me jealous.  But somehow I was still able to spend far too much 
on music.  :)  I also got to meet Joachim and Dana (it never fails to have an
effect on me to meet people in person after talking over email first - it 
was great!) on Friday night, but we (Bryan and I) were too bushed to go out 
dancing.  Ah well. 

	Now onto the next subject;  skip past this if you dislike personal
thinags on the net.  I am looking for an apartment in Bezerkeley and 
instead of renting a room out I'd rather get a 2BR or so and split it with
one or more people I felt fully comfortable with.  I had a friend lined up
and I found a pretty good place near the corner of Milvia and Haste, and now
he's bailed on me and I would like to find another person to room with.  Most
everyone I've asked is pretty much settled in, and I would much rather room
with a friend than a complete stranger.  I don't smoke, I'm cool with just
about anything, pets, etc., I have a TV, VCR, and stereo, and the place will
be about $400/month, and we can get cable TV.  :)  It's about 4 blocks from
campus on the southside, and while the neighborhood could be safer, the 
apartment itself is pretty safe.  And I don't think we'll have too much trouble
from the building manager, when I went to check the place out he recognized me
from the Full Moon Rave!! (he's a friend of a fellow netter).  Anyways, if
you're at all interested, drop me a line, I'd much rather room with a fellow
sfraver than just about anyone else...

	*** HELP GIVE YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD LIST ADMIN A HOME ***

	Okay, and now for more serious shtuff.  A couple of people have 
suggested, both on the list and privately, that we go through and identify
the great posts made to sfraves (there have been a *lot* of them), compile
them, and release them somehow.  I really like this idea, but I have a few
caveats. 

    1) It's hard to get everyone's permission, especially those who may
have written something great and left without a trace... 

    2) There have been a number of not-so-easily veiled references to drug
usage on the net that if released could prove to be harmful to those who
said them.  Could we remove the drug references and still have a document
or book that truly represented what has been said?

    3) There is SO MUCH there (currently around 4 megabytes COMPRESSED) that
editing it will be a major job in itself.  And how should it be organized?
By thread? strictly chronologically?

	Mainly I'm concerned that people posted here to the net knowing they
were posting to a mostly sympathetic audience of other ravers, not to the
general public, and that publishing this would be a violation of that trust.
So what do you all think?  I think so much printable stuff has been said 
here that publishing something seems almost mandatory.  Should it be a
history of sfraves, including everything we did with Connection, etc.,
or should it simply be a compilation of the most philosophical/symbolic
posts? 

	Brian


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 02:19:54 1992
From: Renfield E. Feinstein <ren@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 01:55:18 -0800
Subject: Re:  "The Rave Game" !!!!

The rave game?   NEXT!
peace
r e n

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 02:20:20 1992
From: Renfield E. Feinstein <ren@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 02:03:50 -0800
Subject: Re:  Faking It!

you left out:

 - where ever you go, there you are
 - things to always carry with no matter what: $5 bill, a quarter, pen, id, favorite fortune cookie fortune
 - good sense isn't nearly as much fun as style
 - know your sizes in their European equivs (ya never know)
 - unpolished black leather low top shoes look cheesy, even if they're Docs
 - your hair is not nearly as important as everyone thinks it is
 - have fun! (exercise much, study hard, get rich -- die anyway)
 - you can know what's important without always being so serious
 - your parents music isn't THAT bad (check that old vinyl, you be sooprized!)
thanks for bothering

peace
r e n

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 02:20:25 1992
From: Renfield E. Feinstein <ren@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 01:54:28 -0800
Subject: Re:  tape request

Well, not being tape god or anything, by hardcore you could mean really gnarly 
like the latest ministry or Tool (opiate), or maybe Thrill Kill Cult, although
i don't think you mean that kinda stuff, so mebbe try oldoldold Moby (good
luck finding!) or front 242, NIN, that kinda stuff?  Gee, I'm so helpful.
peace
r e n 

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 02:20:25 1992
From: Renfield E. Feinstein <ren@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 02:06:36 -0800
Subject: Re:  FTT and stolen tape :(

people are generally lame.  sorta sucks, but too true to deny.  we're all
trying to make friendly cool the norm, not the exception.  Keep faith! it'll
happen, we just need to grind some gears before we get rolling (lame analogy
but point is got)

peace
r e n

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 02:21:00 1992
From: Renfield E. Feinstein <ren@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 01:57:39 -0800
Subject: Re:  Live 105 "Rave" Room

Like you expected anything better than the Palladium (get-laid-ium; 15 year-old
girls slutted up to be 25 being hit on by 40 year-old men who think they're
25) from Live 105.  Can't blame you for trying, better next time, I pray for you
peace
r e n

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 03:04:24 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Mon, 30 Nov 92 02:58:03 PST
Subject: tape request

REPLY TO 11/30/92 02:17 FROM ren@ocf.berkeley.edu "Renfield E. Feinstein": Re:
tape request

oldoldold moby, i.e. shopwell sucks. someone had to say it. but the
album is in some weird stages of rerelease, so it]s findable.
and some new moby aint so hot either while i]m on it, despite the
fact i]d chase down a few town seperations to hear him spin and
rant, and i can never get tired of hearing go even if the better
educated among us know that]s go is an overplayed psychohype trick
to make you like it. oh well ... back to my spanish homework
{B(=
pat

To:  ren@ocf.berkeley.edu
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 03:10:16 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Mon, 30 Nov 92 03:04:50 PST
Subject: Re: Faking It!

REPLY TO 11/30/92 02:17 FROM ren@ocf.berkeley.edu "Renfield E. Feinstein": Re:
Faking It!

while we]re on the aphorophism tip:
its not who you are, its what you wear.
its not who you are, its who you know.
its not who you know, its who knows you.
its not what you wear, its how you look.
its not how you look, its who looks at you.
its not the money, yes it is...
its not who you are, but when you arrive
its not when you arrive, but how you come.
its not how you come, but how you leave.
its not how you leave, its who you leave (with).
 etc...

its not who you leave, its making them want more.
{B)=
pat

To:  ren@ocf.berkeley.edu
cc:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 03:19:34 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Mon, 30 Nov 92 03:14:06 PST
Subject: TWITCH 8

hey - i just wanted to compliment the TWITCH people on the album
cover for volume 8. hysterical, like spinal tap. i thought it would
be hard to get funnier than the {my father drives a porsche} bumper
sticker, but oh well.....

the album has my hearty recommendation - i still can]t quite get
over the baha men stuff. for those not yet familiar (FTNYF), baha
men are these i believe carribbean performers who, at least in my
mind, trying to ride the yothu yindi wave of success by streaming
their junukoo (sp? - the big bahamamanian street party) sounds into
made for hot 97.7 picks.
the TWITCH people rock, or rather, i guess they technate... anyway.

oh, and if the TWITCH people can respond, i have a few things of a
business like nature i]d like to ask them...

pat

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 08:47:00 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 9:40:41 MST
Subject: Devin's house party

Someone coax this guy into writing a review!  Devin Hanson threw a smashing
house party here this last weekend.  The walls were sweating from the energy!
I got pooped at 6:30 AM, but I understand that it kept going until 8:00 AM.
Some great original ideas were in play too.  Alternity could probably benefit
from them, I was certainly taking notes :-).

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 08:50:49 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 9:45:42 MST
Subject: Re: attn. music futurists...

> jazzy and jaques cousteouy at the same time, like haunting trumpet
> solos over sort of bubbly under-water sounding computer noises. -
> stuf thats very relaxing and conducive to deep-thoughting.

Utah Saints: Trance Atlantic Flight
Banco de Gaia: Soufie

Both use whale samples.  Of course, from your description, you'd like anything
Banco de Gaia does.  Has anyone seen any album yet?

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 08:57:32 1992
From: camper@buphy.bu.edu (Dan English)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 11:52:01 -0500
Subject: dj unity

did anyone go to this rave to see our east coast dj's?
if so, please post a review to ne-raves, cause we'd like to hear
what you think.
   -camper.
ne-raves@silver.lcs.mit.edu
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                             stay groovy.
 camper english         let me be your fantasy             @buphy.bu.edu
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



From geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org Mon Nov 30 09:13:35 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 08:51:36 PST
Subject: SFRaves Anthology

Brian,
	You have my permission to publish anything I have written,
just give me credit. As far as drug references are concerned, I would
expect you to use your better judgement and iff there is some doubt,
ask me BEFORE you include it.  I think anything can be edited and
I think drug references can be included but maybe they should be from
ficticious users.

Maybe the  best  way to organize the anthology is  by 
catagories or subject.  We  should  include pictures as well.

On another note, I had the number of the person who published 
Imaginal Rave but it is now disconnected.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 09:33:48 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 10:22:21 MST
Subject: Aphex Twin

> Has anyone seen an Aphex Twin CD OTHER than Selected Ambient Works ?

I've got Digideroo and I believe Polynomial-C is out on CD too.  According to
a source inside of Rephlex, there is one more CD that is either a compilation
of Rephlex artists, or just Aphex Twin himself.  It is called "Philosophy of
Sound and Machine", and I don't have it *yet*.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 09:34:06 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 10:25:31 MST
Subject: Re: Depression in winter (and coincidences)

> Speaking of that, anyone want to come entertain me at Salt Lake on my
> return flight on Monday...

Anyone coming through Slit Lick City via the airport is welcome to contact me.
Just as Dank Letter about his stop.  I brought him cookies and a free CD
(actually a 99 cent CD, but a free CD for him).

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 09:41:35 1992
From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 09:34:10 PST
Subject: Re:  underaged events

you're taking a seventeen year old girl out raving??? shame on you! :)

-mark.

From srg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk Mon Nov 30 12:04:37 1992
From: KE Smith <srg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 17:41:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Whole Haunted Natural Cryptic Mighty Crystal Wet Techno

I would've thought some better names for "Progressive House" could be:-

Raw House
Naked House
or
Mind Musuc

Kev.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 12:07:34 1992
From: tahl@tfs.com (Tahl Milburn)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 12:11:39 PST
Subject: Re:  



>>the problem though, is that history repeats itself.

>History doesn't repeat itself... Historians merely repeat
>each other!     

So, I guess I'll be the one to pipe in with that groovy Mark Twain quote:
"History may not repeat itself but it rhymes."

I just luv it....

Tahl



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 12:23:56 1992
From: "Devin J. Hanson" <DHANSON@cc.utah.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 13:17 MST
Subject: Review: Nov 28, House party


Greg and I threw our first official House Party on Nov. 28.  We distributed 
flyers around town two weeks before the event.  The invitations stated that 
only 50 people would be able to come to the party (since Greg and I didn't 
think our house would hold many more than that.)  We started the day by
running around town picking up lights and supplys at various places, as well
as a slushee machine for smart slushee's.  By 9pm we had everything set up 
ready to go for the party, the slushee machine was working away freezing our
smart drinks.  At 11:30pm the slushee machine hadn't frozen the drinks yet
and was leaking all over the floor wasting amino acids, finally around
midnight it started freezing, just as we opened the doors.  
 
We had Video Monitors in the kitchen and one chill room that were playing 
a computer graphics video, so initially we couldn't get people in dancing, 
they were all vegging on the Video, we turned the video off for a while and
they all started dancing.
 
We had several large steel bowls of fresh fruit (oranges, pineapple, grapes, 
and grapefruit), the grapes were gone in record time, the oranges and 
pineapple soon followed, and we have a bunch of grapefruit still left.  
 
About 1am about 2/3 of the people had shown up, the dance floor was filled, 
the downstairs chill room was begining to fill up.  At 2:30am everyone had 
shown up and we locked the doors and I joined the party.  About this point it
started to get really hot inside and we had to get a couple floor fans out 
and place them stratigiclly the dance floor.  This kept the temperature 
stable at about 86 degrees.  At 3:00 I noticed that all the walls were 
sweating, and I had to keep towels on the stairs to keep them from getting 
too slippery.  The energy was going great.  At the same time I got the fans
out Pete took over DJing from Chris so he could take a break.  Pete knocked 
out a great set of music for I guess about a hour or so (correct me if I'm 
wrong Pete.)  I decided to open the door for a few minutes and blow some of 
the hot air out.  When I opened the door, steam would fly out the door, 
it reminded me of something out of Poltergiest, it was like standing right
in front of a giant smoke machine.  Everyone wondered if we had melted the 
snow off the roof, but we didn't.  
 
At about 5:30am I started talking to Greg and Chris about when they wanted
to stop, neither of them wanted to stop, and Chris didn't have any idea that
it was that early in the morning.  So it continued...at 6:30am I was talking
to Greg and Pete, Pete was getting tired, I was getting tired, but Greg and 
Chris, and Jody (Chris's Lover) wanted to keep going, so I offered to 
give Pete a ride home, but just as we were getting ready to leave, someone
else that lives next door to him was leaving so he caught a ride with them.
 
7:30am, about a dozen people are left, Chris, Jody, and Greg get tired, and
I'm ready to keep going after drinking a couple glasses of smart slushees.  
But we stoped and started to clean up the mess.  It was pretty clean as
compared to some parties that I have had where we served alcohol.  The only
problems of the night seemed to be that someone dented in one wall pretty 
good, but that can be fixed, and one party goer took too many drugs and 
was laying on the side of the dance area with his pants down, masturbating
through his underwear.  
 
All in all the party went great, we had many phone calls the next day telling
us they heard about the party, and wanted to know when the next one was.  
 
Well...December 12...Here we come!
 
 
Special Thanks to Pete, John, Chris and everyone who helped make this party
happen!
 
 
 
Devin

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 12:31:56 1992
From: Lyle_Scheer@next.com (Lyle Scheer)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 12:25:45 -0800
Subject: Re: Toon'ed Out/Lewd-Lite Energizer

Larry Ching is in ">"s
> What happened to all the folks that where going to the Toons club 

>and Energizer?

Well, I went to Energizer, and even recall seeing you, but I didn't  
say "Hi."

> So, I went to the Energizer, at One Step Beyond in Santa Clara. 

>When I got there, the dance floor only had a dozen folks on it - by 

>1:30, the dance floor was comfortably full.

I arrived near midnight as they said that the door would open between  
11 and 12, but they didn't start letting people in until around 12:30  
or so.

This was my second rave experience.  In all, I had a fine time, but I  
admit that this didn't seem any friendlier or less friendly than a  
day in the park.  Well, actually, maybe less.  There was only one  
person the whole evening who talked to me just to be friendly, and he  
was one of the staff guys outside the place before the rave started.   
Apart from that, around 10 people tried to buy drugs from me and 1  
tried to sell to me.  I asked one of the buyers why he was asking me  
if I had any 'cid, and he just pointed at my shirt (A crudly drawn  
guy arms waving in front of a window with his head all aflame, and  
large text next to it saying, "My brain is on fire!").  The only one  
selling didn't have any of what I would have liked to have tried.

Oh well, I'm not saying that I didn't have a good time.  I did.  I  
danced my ass off until 6am, though I had to remove my sandals half  
way through the evening as it felt like I was going to develop  
blisters on my feet (I escaped them somehow).  The floor had a bit of  
debris that continually wound up stuck in my toes, but this was not a  
major concern.

I figure I'll have to get myself into the city for some raves and see  
if the atmosphere is any different.

- Lyle

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 13:01:42 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 13:54:59 MST
Subject: Uh oh, trouble...

Just as I was considering giving it all up to study hard and become a computer
scientist....


My 303 arrived in the mail today.

From stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com Mon Nov 30 13:12:26 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 30 Nov 1992 13:06:27 -0700
Subject: ***SFRAVE LUNCH WED 12/2***

Hello  All:


I just wanted to remind everyone that I am having a lunch at my place this Wed
dec 2.  Everybody is welcomed to attend it is at my house in Menlo Park close
to 101 and Willow see directions below.   Lunch will begin at 11:30 and go till
1:30 (I have to work)  and if anybody is interested in Pizza, let me know, I
could preorder it from a great Pizza place. I would like to order a Vegetarian
Pizza to meet everyone's needs.   It would be well worth your time to come and
hang out.

I know alot of people like me is probably swamped with mail, so if anyone knows
someone who might want to go phone number, give them a call.


Any questions give me a call
415-323-2620 Home
408-974-3161 Work
**Directions**

Coming from the south:

Take 101 North
Take the Willow Rd West exit (1/4 mile north of Dumbarton bridge exit)
Make a Right at the first light, Bay Rd.
Follow Bay Road it will veer left.
make a Left at the speedlimit and bikelane sign onto Berkeley RD.
House is 900 Berkeley , on the left 1/2 block down.
The house is a spanish style home with a little Xmas tree in the front uncut
yard.
Pull into the driveway and park in back or park in the front of the house.

Coming from the North:

Take 101 South
Take the Willow Rd West exit (1/4 mile north of Dumbarton bridge exit)
Make a Right at the first light, Bay Rd.
Follow Bay Road it will veer left.
make a Left at the speedlimit and bikelane sign onto Berkeley RD.
House is 900 Berkeley , on the left 1/2 block down.
The house is a spanish style home with a little Xmas tree in the front uncut
yard.
Pull into the driveway and park in back or park in the front of the house.

Coming from the East:

Take the Dumbarton bridge.
Make a left at Willow (2nd or 3rd stoplight I am not sure?)
Take Willow until you go over 101.
Make a Right at the first light after 101, Bay Rd.
Follow Bay Road it will veer left.
make a Left at the speedlimit and bikelane sign onto Berkeley RD.
House is 900 Berkeley , on the left 1/2 block down.
The house is a spanish style home with a little Xmas tree in the front uncut
yard.
Pull into the driveway and park in back or park in the front of the house.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 13:47:16 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 30 Nov 1992 13:34:29 -0700
Subject: Need help selling Jewelry!

Hi:

My Grilfriend and her friend make really good Ravewear necklaces and other
stuff out of Fimo(clay).  I am trying to help her setup her booth at a Rave. 
Does anyone know any promoters or people she could get in touch with so she can
sell her stuff!

Any input is much appreciated.

 Peace and Love


    XXXXX
   X     X
  X  NUT  X   
   X     X
    XXXXX  

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 13:47:57 1992
From: Trevor Schulze <tschulze@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 13:41:01 PST
Subject: FTT and Basics

Hi all!

Well, I have been sitting back and reading sfraves mail for a couple
weeks now, and I figured now was the time to say hello to everyone.  

I've only been in the rave scene for a couple months now, but I'm
HOOKED.  Being fresh out of Tucson where the idea of fun is drinking
until you throw up on yourself and then pass out- I am definately
thankful for raves and everything that goes with them (music, people,
etc). 

I went to FTT on Saturday and had a great time, but was it me or was
there some serious bad attitudes flowing?  Anyway, I was running around
and dancing all night in hopes of finding/seeing anyone with a SFRAVES
button or something so I could introduce myself.  No luck.  Maybe one of
you saw me at some point...  I was banging away on the drum set next to
the stage for a few hours /  no shirt, big hat.  Oh well, if anyone
living in the south bay needs a ride next weekend (I don't know where I
am going yet) e-mail me personally.  Like I said, I'm new to the area and
would really like to meet some fellow SFravers.

Oh yeah, the reason I sent out this message:

Anyone go to FTT & Basics? Any opinions or comparisons?  IMHO I'm a
wishin I went to Basics instead of FTT.  

See ya,

Trevor   --> tschulze@cisco.com

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 14:07:25 1992
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 13:58:43 PST
Subject: weakend rpt


Thurs: Should of went to Deep Faith but decided to save myself for all the
        great things coming up.

Friday: Visited the SoundLab wharehouse location at 2:00.  The vibe didn't
	seem too exciting, so I saved my $15 and went home.  I later found
	out that the scene fizzled and was over at 5:00.

Saturday: Too lazy to drive to Basics.  Decided to pass on the commercialish
	holiday weekend city events.

Sunday: Morning:  Got in 2 hours of dancing at the AfterLIFE.  DJ Simon was
	quite good.  Enjoyed the Chill rooms until the noisy NO2 balloons
	drove me out.

	Afternoon: Went to the promised GG Park event.  The sound system
	never showed.  Commiserated with other disappointed ravers.

	Early Evening: 150 Folsom seemed promising at first, then fizzled
	out.  Maybe it got going later, I didn't stay to find out.

Tomorrow is ComeUnity, which has NEVER failed me.  Hope to see some of you there.

leg of eel

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 14:17:05 1992
From: "Devin J. Hanson" <DHANSON@cc.utah.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 14:57 MST
Subject: Re:  Review: Nov 28, House party

From:	IN%"ccat@netcom.com" 30-NOV-1992 14:33:08.72
To:	DHANSON@CC.UTAH.EDU
CC:	
Subj:	RE:  Review: Nov 28, House party

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 1992 14:31 MST
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 92 13:27:14 -0800
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 13:27:14 -0800
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Subject: RE:  Review: Nov 28, House party
To: DHANSON@CC.UTAH.EDU
Message-id: <9211302127.AA24737@netcom2.netcom.com>
X-Envelope-to: DHANSON

>  What did you use in your slurpees, Devin?
>-Chris.

Better question might be what didn't we use! :-)  Not really knowing where to
start we began with the slush base mix, a white powder that basically is 
sugar and a few other things, we added powedered Vitamin C, Phenlanaline, and
Carbo Fuel, we then added fresh squeezed lemons, a bottle of Lemon Juice, a
package of Gatoraid Citris mix, a bottle of Mountain Dew, a couple bottles 
of Calastoga Citris Water, and Orange, and Fruit Punch flavoring, and of 
course water.  

We went through about 40 gallons of this stuff during the night.

Devin



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 14:21:43 1992
From: "Devin J. Hanson" <DHANSON@cc.utah.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 15:13 MST
Subject: Re: Review: Nov 28, House party

From:	IN%"stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com"  "Stewart, Scott*" 30-NOV-1992 13:47:25.16
To:	"Devin J. Hanson" <DHANSON@CC.UTAH.EDU>
CC:	
Subj:	RE: Review: Nov 28, House party

Return-path: <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Received: from colossus.apple.com by CC.UTAH.EDU with PMDF#10043; Mon, 30 Nov
 1992 13:47 MST
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 (5.65/7-Aug-1992-eef) id AA13864; Mon, 30 Nov 92 12:35:29 -0800 for
Received: from msgate.corp.apple.com by jumbo.apple.com with SMTP
 (5.64/26-Oct-1992-eef) id AA25011; Mon, 30 Nov 92 12:42:47 PST for
 DHANSON@cc.utah.edu
Date: 30 Nov 1992 12:34:56 -0700
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Subject: RE: Review: Nov 28, House party
To: "Devin J. Hanson" <DHANSON@CC.UTAH.EDU>
Message-id: <9211302042.AA25011@jumbo.apple.com>
X-Envelope-to: DHANSON

>Hi Devin:

>Your party sounded Great, I liked the Slurpy machine id, how much did it cost
>to Rent?

The machine was $50 to rent, plus we had to purchase a case (8 bags) of slushee
base mix, at a cost of $23.50, then there is the cost of the additional items
which I believe were about $25-30

>I am working on throwing a house Party Dec 19 at my place in menlo park and am
>interested in any help/advice I can get. This may also be in conjuction with an
>SF Day rave on my double tennis court.  We will be discussing this at an SFRAVE
>lunch this Wed.

>Who were your DJ's and would they be interested in playing at other house
>Parties?

Hmmm...don't know...they might here in Utah, but I don't know about the bay 
area. 

Devin


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 14:49:09 1992
From: "Pete Reiter" <megatest!plethorax!preiter@sun.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 14:19:21 PST
Subject: Basics/Etc.



Well, wed night was a wash. 

First, we went to check out Toons. It was packed and there was a big line out 
front, so we decided to blow it off and head straight for the Energizer. 
We drove all the way down to Scott Valley only to find out it had been
moved to One Step Beyond. Since OSB is at the top of my "No way, Jose" list 
we bagged it and went home.

Saturday night was Basics. 

Wow. A huge chill space that was quiet enough to talk without screaming and 
well lit enough to see who you were talking to. I liked it so much I spent very
little time dancing. The X factor was high and I met alot of people.
Dancing and music are great, but it's nights like that one that remind me 
what attracted me to raving in the first place.
			
						Pete

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 15:05:12 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 14:55:41 PST
Subject: Re:  FTT and Basics

Hi kids!  Long epic melodrama of Sat night follows...

Saturday night, after coming back from LA (where I didn't go to any
raves, but I did find Melrose Ave and DMC; I'd like to go down to LA
again, sometime when I'm not visiting my Mom, so I can check out more
of the scene, and maybe meet some of you socal-ravers.  But, back to
the story...)  I was all set to go out raving, I even avoided calling
my usual crowd, 'cuz they're usually resistant to the $10+ covers of
raves, and they might have tempted me into missing the raves.

I knew Basics would probably be the best, but I have this aversion to
driving long distances for raves unless they're cheap and probably
bust-free.  Basics would probably be bust-free, but I was thinking
I could get into Funky Tekno Tribe for the same price ($10 before 11)
and not have to drive 45 min.  

So FTT wanted a canned food donation with the $10 before 11, so I 
stopped in the Safeway and got some tuna, but when I got to the
Galleria at 10:30, there was a long line, and I didn't see anyone
I knew, and only a couple of people I even recognized from the "scene",
although most people had the fashion.  Discouraged, I got back in
the car and went to check out Love American Style (at the Bridge)
and DJ Unity (at the back of DV8).  But of course, both were
dead, since it was still before 11.  (seems like this "reduced price
before 11" thing is a good way to attract people, although you might
draw the wrong type of people).  I went back to FTT, and the line
was about twice as long (lot of people tried to get there just before
11, I guess), so I decided to go home and chill.

At home I was thinking about driving to Basics again, then not, and
at 12:30 I decided to give FTT another try.  The line was at its
10:30 length again, and I got in line, but it was moving too slow.
I went back to Love American Style, and cased it out for a little
while; it was $15, and not too many people going in, and someone
else out there said DJ Unity was pretty dead too, so I finally went
back to FTT.  By this time there was no line, so I went in, 
hesitated a moment at the $20 cover, and finally made it in.

I hadn't been to one of these huge raves for a long time, but this
one was actually good in a lot of ways.  The Galleria, although
perhaps too commercialish in features, has a great setup 
architecturally for raves - there's a big open floor for dancing
with a four-story ceiling, and walkways going all around the sides
on each of the three stories above the main floor.  The landings 
for the stairways overhang the dance floor, so the DJs were on the
second-floor landing, separate from the crowd, but right above.
Looking down at the crowd from any of the walkways was cool, plus
you could see the Pure light show better from above.  People had
booths and were selling stuff on the second-floor walkways, and
Malachy had a table on the fourth-floor walkways (supposed to be
a chill area I guess, but the music was still loud up there).
There were some leaflets describing Hopi philosophy on his table,
it was interesting, maybe he'll have them at Come/Unity on Tuesday.

The crowd was energetic, although it didn't appear particularly
ecstatic, the dance floor was still pretty full at 5:30 when I left.
I still didn't see too many people I knew or recognized inside; 
I guess a lot of you went to Basics, and a lot of this crowd
were either people just back for Thanksgiving, or new or weekend
ravers (I haven't been going out a lot on weekends lately).  (I
was wearing a Pirates baseball cap with a SFR button on it, for
those of you who were there, also a green-and-black t-shirt (green
one side, black on the other)).  So the crowd wasn't bad, but
it didn't have the community feel of Come/Unity or Deep Faith.

The music when I got in was pretty hardcore-ish, I don't know who
the DJ was, but I didn't like it too much; not because it was
too hardcore, but because he wasn't keeping the groove going too
well, 30 seconds of something, then a break, then something else.
Or maybe it was just the sound system making things sound bad.
Spun then came on for what seemed to be a long time, and I found
a spot where the sound was better, and I was quite happy.
Then whoever was on after him sort of lost my interest.

Did I forget anything? :)

Keep on ravin' on...

-Derek

________________________________________________
 Derek Chung			Oracle Graphics	
 dhchung@oracle.com 		  (415)506-6195

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 15:24:34 1992
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 12:30:58 PST
Subject: ???

>there's a sixteen year old kid who lives next door to me. He and his  
>friends play Led Zeppelin non stop. I grew up in the 60's and was  
>listening to the same music. OK I like the music but I don't get it,  
>when I was sixteen there was no way I'd be listening to music that  
>was 25 years. I'd rather see a generation of people play music I hate  
>as long as it's their own as long as it's "new territory" ( and not  
>disco, you have to draw the line somewhere ). Pining over some  
>romantic past is for senile old men like Reagan.

>John 

I'm glad to here it.  I was one of those 16 yr. olds listening to Zep
about 8 years ago and I still believe that no other post-zep band has
come close to doing what they did.  Probably never will and not because
they were so great (even though they were) but because times are different
now.  There are just too many styles for people to choose from and participate
in.  It doesn't just come down to Rock or Disco like it did than.  It's kind of
like what I was getting at earlier.  When I was growing up (no comments, please)
it seemed like styles and fads would come and go.  Now it seems like things come
but never go, ya know?  There is always a group of people keeping whatever
it is alive and every now and than it gets popular with everyone (trendy) and
than it recedes back out of the lime light but never leaves.  It seems like
we have more stuff to participate in, more to choose from.  If you have the money
you can experience almost anything.  Also, what about classical music?  Should
we stop listening to it because it's old hat and we didn't make it?  I would hate
to throw out my music collection because my generation didn't create all of the
styles of music in it.  As for the guy and his friends playing zep non-stop,
kids that age tend to get obbsesive about music like that.  I remember wanting
to play something different than zep just because I wanted to be more open-minded
but when it came right down to it I didn't enjoy other music when I wanted to
listen to zep.  I had no choice.

-Mark

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 15:33:37 1992
From: rpcaras@srv.pacbell.com (Bob Carasik)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 15:25:18 PST
Subject: Re:  FTT and Basics


Stopped by FTT a bit before 7am on my way to work; the vibe seemed
pretty good and the DJ was playing "Papa's Got a Brand New Pigbag",
a great fave of mine from the early 80's, He then mixed a bunch
of other stuff, very slick professional work but when he mixed in
"40 miles" by Kylie Minogue I knew it was time to go.  The Galleria
is a good space, though, and a rave was definitely in effect; the
alcohol drinkers must have been long gone and the drummers were goin
at it.  I only saw Raffaele there, and he disappeared before I could
say hi. 

My smart drink that I had saw me through several hours of manic
debugging.  I'd have rather gone to Basics, but then I'd have rather
had more than 20 minutes.

AstroBoy

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 15:50:45 1992
From: faerie@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Dara Ruth Papo)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 15:44:41 -0800
Subject: tape was found :)


the video was found i now find out.. it was just buried under other stuff...
so now i feel much better, and have renewed hope :)
someone tried to swipe my bac:0|

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 15:53:11 1992
From: Leah Reich <leah@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 15:48:07 -0800
Subject: Re:  underaged events


>you're taking a seventeen year old girl out raving??? shame on you! :)

>-mark

hey!!  you got a problem with us seventeen year old girls?  d8)

always, leah


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 15:58:33 1992
From: faerie@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Dara Ruth Papo)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 15:53:05 -0800
Subject: tape was found :)


the tape was found it turns out, just stuck in a strange place..
so i now have renewed faith in the scene, and in people :)

someone had tried to swipe my backpack at Destiny, and ever since then ive
been REALLY carefully, and thats kinda why id gotten so upset when we feared
that the tape was gone..

but it all worked out, thanks for the encouraging wor<

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 16:00:52 1992
From: markb@lesalon.apple.com (Mark Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 15:49:09 PST
Subject: ???

To: sfraves@berkeley.soda.edu
Subject: Crash Worship...

i have a feeling that i will get flamed for this post, but on saturday,
i forewent an actual rave to see Crash Worship, at Gillman st.  this 
was the most techno-shamanistic event i have ever been to.  the entire
audience was dancing about, driven by powerful drum rhythms fire and 
(!) whistles.  i kept getting beep-beep beep beep beep beep-beep beep beep!
in my ear everywhere i turned.  actually, i considered the show a rave
at its purist level.  

anyway, if you ever get a chance to see them, i highly recommend it...

also, anyone heard anything new that is similar to Coil's snow ep?

-mark.  (from a different desk...)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 16:05:11 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 16:59:14 MST
Subject: Re: Smart Slurpees

> >  What did you use in your slurpees, Devin?
> >-Chris.
> 
> Better question might be what didn't we use! :-)  Not really knowing where to
> start we began with the slush base mix, a white powder that basically is 
> sugar and a few other things, we added powedered Vitamin C, Phenlanaline, and
> Carbo Fuel, we then added fresh squeezed lemons, a bottle of Lemon Juice, a
> package of Gatoraid Citris mix, a bottle of Mountain Dew, a couple bottles 
> of Calastoga Citris Water, and Orange, and Fruit Punch flavoring, and of 
> course water.  

I might add that this stuff was NUMMMMMMY!!  Best smart-fluid I've ever downed
and it was virtually "serve yerself".  I think Devin has discovered the
easiest way to make smart-drinks ever (or so it appeared).

> We went through about 40 gallons of this stuff during the night.

More than a few drinks went in my tummy.  The fresh "ready-access" fruit was
great too.  Tons of pre-peeled oranges sitting in a sink of ice, pineapple,
and grapes were also in plentiful supply.  Lots of agua and candy available
too.

From pashdown@slack.sim.es.com Mon Nov 30 16:24:14 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 17:23:53 MST
Subject: Re:  underaged events

> hey!!  you got a problem with us seventeen year old girls?  d8)

Yeah, for some reason they just don't trust us 25 year old guys! :-)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 16:26:05 1992
From: coganman@soda.berkeley.edu (Andrei Cogan)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 16:20:32 -0800
Subject: ???

        How was that show? I caught the one at Paradigm Studios in Oakland
earlier this summer, but I skipped this one because 924 Gilman seemed to be
too small and  cramped a place for their kind of show -- It took me two
months to wash all the blood off my bike from the summer show, which is
unusual in that my bike was locked up about 30 feet behind the stage...

        -Andrei

-- 
   Andrei Cogan (coganman@soda.berkeley.edu)   |||    When in doubt, panic.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you think it will take,       |
|   even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                "Be kind to your brain cells, I say" - Joe B.                |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 17:01:23 1992
From: geoffw@carlyle.com  (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 16:34:30 -0800
Subject: Re:  FTT and Basics

> Hi kids!  Long epic melodrama of Sat night follows...

[stuff deleted]

> I knew Basics would probably be the best, but I have this aversion to
> driving long distances for raves unless they're cheap and probably
> bust-free.  Basics would probably be bust-free, but I was thinking
> I could get into Funky Tekno Tribe for the same price ($10 before 11)
> and not have to drive 45 min. 

[more stuff deleted]
 
> At home I was thinking about driving to Basics again, then not, and
> at 12:30 I decided to give FTT another try.  The line was at its
> 10:30 length again, and I got in line, but it was moving too slow.
> I went back to Love American Style, and cased it out for a little
> while; it was $15, and not too many people going in, and someone
> else out there said DJ Unity was pretty dead too, so I finally went
> back to FTT.  By this time there was no line, so I went in, 
> hesitated a moment at the $20 cover, and finally made it in.
> 

[even more stuff deleted]

> Then whoever was on after him sort of lost my interest.
> 
> Did I forget anything? :)
> 
> Keep on ravin' on...
> 
> -Derek
> 

Boy all this running around! All the time you waster driving back and forth,
you could have driven to BASICS (it really wasn't that far) and had a great
time.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 17:10:44 1992
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 17:05:11 PST
Subject: Updated phone list


Some of these may be obsolete; edit as you please!

Last mailed:  09.17.92
Last updated: 11.30.92

415.561.9769  Alley Cat
415.750.9368  Ameba (clothing)
415.927.5639  Ascent (B-Comming to R House)
408.496.1577  Aurora's Garden
415.905.9629  Basics
415.626.4087  Be-At Line
415.861.2507  Behind the Post Office
415.575.8177  Big Bang Theory, Amythyst
415.567.0276  BPM Music Factory (records) 
415.597.37XX  Candyland
415.979.5558  CareFree
415.905.6441  Casper
415.905.6443  Casper
415.627.1711  Church/Field Trip
408.292.7464  Circus
415.552.7109  Cloud Base
408.235.1077  Cool World
415.979.4543  Cool World
415.995.4976  Cosmofunkagrooveathon
408.236.3760  Cosmofunkagrooveathon
415.267.6129  Creation, Revelation/Funky Tekno Tribe
415.541.5042  Cyborganic Be-In/Little Chief Floppy
408.288.8640  Deep Rooted House
415.931.4168  Destination Venus/Funky San Francisco
408.236.2022  Destiny (Groove Kitchen/Good Feelin'/etc)
408.450.2682  Devotion (Sharon?)
916.558.3591  Devotion (Sharon?)
408.450.2221  Discovery
415.267.1822  Eargasm
415.433.EDEN  Eden
415.905.4199  Elevation/Karma
415.512.5738  Energizr
408.450.8624  Energizr
415.737.1846  Equinox/Sound Lab
415.599.3360  Escape (Joy)
415.905.4552  Evolution
415.544.0113  Family/Woopy's Playground
415.241.1516  Fantasia
415.905.9661  Feel the Trip
415.266.9217  Feel-X
415.267.6955  Feel-X
408.236.2413  Feel-X
415.560.2675  Field Trip
415.241.8880  Freedom Harvest
415.905.9606  Freesia
510.869.2799  Full Moon Metamorphosis
415.267.4800  Gathering
415.995.2313  Generation of Sound/Trilogy
415.512.5917  Global Rhythm Festival
415.905.8806  Grass Roots
415.979.5899  Grinch
415.995.4936  Groove Asylum
415.267.3932  Groove Kitchen
415.995.2501  Happy Happy Joy Joy (Mr Baked Raindrop)
415.979.8444  Hardkiss (Midsummer Night's Dream)
415.337.4362  Hardkiss (Waldo/Wish)
415.281.0293  Harmonic Convergence
408.236.2077  Higgledy Piggledy
415.267.6160  Higgledy Piggledy
510.874.4911  Higgledy Piggledy
415.252.1440  Housewares
415.442.1973  Housing Project
415.995.2717  Imagination
415.905.6462  Jack (jackin' the house)
415.281.0586  Jama Rave/Spirals
415.267.0666  Jerk-It
916.863.3350  Joker's Wild (Full Deck)
415.905.8821  Juice
916.535.9370  Juicy Fruit
415.755.8315  Just Add Water...
415.267.1836  Karma
415.905.9412  Libra
408.426.4022  Lighthouse
510.521.9474  L.U.S.T (the Underground)
415.905.4551  Lifetime of Love
415.543.DEEP  Liquid
415.512.5976  Love American Style
408.496.9478  Love American Style
415.905.4553  The Love Garage
415.266.8215  Magic Roundabout
415.267.1840  Magoo
415.979.4093  Majesty
408.235.9848  Majesty
510.277.8067  Majesty
415.905.8831  Maximum House
415.578.3078  Messiah/Cumulus
415.621.5538  Mission Rock
415.267.4882  Mr Floppy's
415.905.9628  Narnia
415.764.2906  Orbit
415.541.5054  Osmosis
510.814.2229  Pilgrim's Pie
415.979.4064  Planet Groove
415.978.9448  Planetarium/Underworld
415.267.1843  Promised Land
415.578.5281  Promised Land
415.267.0640  Pure
415.337.4223  Purple Fog
415.905.6372  Reunion
415.267.1818  Revelation
408.595.6139  St Nick's X-mas Groove
408.236.3383  Salad
415.241.1553  Salad / this House Gone Funky / The Art of Living
415.267.4889  SFRaves (Connection/Alternity)
415.974.6726  Shamanarchy
415.995.4959  Sharon
415.497.1214  Source Code
415.749.7670  Take A Stand/Park Raves
415.905.8826  Takeback (Brickhouse)
415.882.1150  Tang
415.267.6124  Terricolous Imagination
415.267.4886  ToonTown
415.267.6948  Trance Formation
415.266.8254  Turtle Wax
408.399.2611  up3 info line
415.978.9081  Virtual Reality
415.337.4988  Vortex
415.267.1437  WAX (Rhythm Society?)
415.281.0635  Wacky Citrus
415.292.3295  Wacky Citrus
415.389.2722  Wally World
800.439.8229  Warp Factor X (the Federation)/Sundaze
415.572.5745  Whalesong
408.496.9148  Whalesong
415.267.7693  Where the Wild Things Are
415.267.6994  Willy Wonka/Golden Ticket
415.512.5900  Wonderland
415.266.9292  X-Men
510.874.4918  X-odus
415.695.7887  Zanzibar
415.281.0248  120 BPM

________________________________________________
 Derek Chung			Oracle Graphics	
 dhchung@oracle.com 		  (415)506-6195

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 18:08:30 1992
From: sybase!mw@sun.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 16:26:17 PST
Subject: Re:  Uh oh, trouble...


> Just as I was considering giving it all up to study hard and become a
> computer scientist....

> My 303 arrived in the mail today.

You'd probably learn a great deal by taking the thing apart and figuring out
how it works.  The AW-394S (Roland's proprietery "acid wank" chip) uses some
cool technology.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 18:33:29 1992
From: "Glenn Fajardo,Cnslt" <manutius!msmailgw!Glenn_Fajardo#m#Cnslt@uunet.uu.net>
Date: 	30 Nov 92 17:46:08 U
Subject: 	RE:CRASH WORSHIP

I've seen CRASH WORSHIP twice here in Seattle and I've got to agree with
Mark!!!
The shows I've seen have been the penultimate Primal Rave events that I
have been to!
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: Glenn Fajardo,Cnslt
From: uunet!lesalon.apple.com!markb on Mon, Nov 30, 1992 4:57 PM
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From: uunet!lesalon.apple.com!markb (Mark Baldwin)
Message-Id: <9211302349.AA26711@lesalon.apple.com.apple.com>
To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu

To: sfraves@berkeley.soda.edu
Subject: Crash Worship...

i have a feeling that i will get flamed for this post, but on saturday,
i forewent an actual rave to see Crash Worship, at Gillman st.  this 
was the most techno-shamanistic event i have ever been to.  the entire
audience was dancing about, driven by powerful drum rhythms fire and 
(!) whistles.  i kept getting beep-beep beep beep beep beep-beep beep beep!
in my ear everywhere i turned.  actually, i considered the show a rave
at its purist level.  

anyway, if you ever get a chance to see them, i highly recommend it...

also, anyone heard anything new that is similar to Coil's snow ep?

-mark.  (from a different desk...)


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 18:39:40 1992
From: Andrew C Crosby <ndc@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 21:35:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Uh oh, trouble... 

 

> pete ashdown: 
> > Just as I was considering giving it all up to study hard and become a
> > computer scientist....
> 
> > My 303 arrived in the mail today.
>
mike wertheim: 
> You'd probably learn a great deal by taking the thing apart and figuring out
> how it works.  The AW-394S (Roland's proprietery "acid wank" chip) uses some
> cool technology.


say..  does anybody know if roland licenses their chips out?
or if they'd be available somehow? custom synths and stuff,
perhaps..?


andy

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 30 18:45:04 1992
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 18:37:04 -0800
Subject:  FTT and stolen tape :(

Regarding stolen stuff at  raves:
When Todd and Cindy had the FMR at their house last May quite a few things
were missing the next morning. This is unfortunately nothing new when you
don't know everyone, and sometimes even when you do. Some people just have 
sticky fingers.
BTW, one of the missing items BESIDES a jeno tape and the other items was
a very expensive video camera.

Rox

From mcg@netcom.com Mon Nov 30 19:26:04 1992
From: mcg@netcom.com (MykL G)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 19:21:58 PST
Subject: Your set at Zanzibar

Believe it or not, I finally found the DAT of your and Robbie's
sets at Zanzibar on my birthday!  Would you believe it slipped
through the cushions of my sofa?  (There's a story going around
of that exact thing happening to Phil Collins -- those devils are
pretty slippery!)

I also found an old purse of Ruth's -- unfortunately, there was no $$$
in it  ;^)

- MykL G  (God's personal DAT recording technician)

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 08:38:49 1992
From: "Pat Dote" <Pat.Dote@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Date:      Tue,  1 Dec 92 03:21:40 PST
Subject: wacko ronco & whamo

so early in the morning, when i]m getting kind of weird, i think of
stuff like this.....

hey. here]s a techno track i could really get into and it would
hammer the final nail into the coffin of raves/ 60]s connection. get
a nice live 105 techno tape loop set up (oh, yeah, we don]t use tape
loops anymore - but just for deadhead nostaglia & authenticity
(sp?)) something like messiah]s hit, or maybe just a good 140bpm 4
on the floor type thing without much else going on - you]all be the
judge, and then for the icing, the sample over the top would be the
{sodomy, fellatio, cunninglus} song from the musical hair.
if enough people don]t know it, they are probably offended as all
hell right now, but if they want to tell me they don]t know it, i]ll
sing it for everyone.......

anyway, that]s just another way of me saying i]ve lost complete
control of my life, the little things like walking in a straight
line, the big things like graduating, all of it, just whoosh off my
desk...

and if in losing control of my life, i]m just catching up to some of
you, hi!! thanks for waiting. and if i]ve left some of you behind,
psst the sanity thing is all hype, mirrors i tell you, mirrors.

To:  SFRAVES@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 08:39:20 1992
From: Rocky Mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 00:57:32 -0800
Subject: at long last


	i heard orbital for the first time last night... "belfast"
	i don't think my life will be the same.

	that may also have to do with having seen a band called crash
	worship on friday, they played at 177 townsend (carefree, 
	imagination).  i was blown away... i tranced out harder and
	longer than at any rave.  it was mostly tribal/industrial
	drumming, there was lots of fire, on torches and on the floor
	and lots of smoke.  most people there were shirtless, as was
	i, and many were nude or in g-string kind of stuff.  they
	threw water on the crowd, and walked around with those inner
	bags from wine boxes feeding people wine.  there was also
	a gallon milk container filled with blood that people smeared
	all over on another... between that and all the sweat and 
	everyone touching one another i was totally out of my head.
	too bad it was only two hours.  they passed massive trays (3x6)
	of sliced fruits which all of us fed to one another and smeared
	the rinds on one anothers bodies.

	the crash worship experience is *difinately* recomended!!

rocky


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 08:39:39 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 03:23:50 -0800
Subject: Come/Unity and a Berkeley SFR lunch on Friday


I'm just writing to ask everyone to go to Come/Unity tonight at 1015 Folsom,
because, if 1015 got all their paperwork cleared, Come/Unity (and every further
1015 party) will be 18+.  No more mr. bad-guy bouncers...  I've been to (snuck
into, more like) 2 Come/Unity's and have always had a ball.  

Oh, and since I may be moving out soon, I'll be hosting a going-away bash 
disguised as an SFR lunch here this Friday, from 11:30 until it ends... I
will _try_ to get more button materials so we can make more for those who
don't have 'em yet or who made designs but couldn't press more buttons.  I'll
have drinks and stuff, but it'll mostly be B.Y.O.F....  of course, music and
visuals will be provided. :)  I'm appending my infamous directions to this
post...

See you all at at least one hopefully two of these!

	Brian

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Those of you who live in Berkeley should be able to tell from these directions
where I am)

Take the 24 east from the 580 freeway (consult one of the Thomas Bros if this
is unclear) and exit at Claremont.  Make a left, and make another left at
College after a mile or so.  Stay on College for another mile, until you
hit Dwight, where you take a right.  Make another right at Warring.  On the
left you will see Clark Kerr.  About 50 yards after the first stop sign is
a driveway on the left - go into the driveway and up to the back end of the
parking lot.  Walk up between the two L-shaped buildings, and you will be
facing my building, building 17.  I am on the left hand side of 17, suite
103.  

The parking lot there is officially only for people with permits, but they
usually don't check around lunchtime.  If you want to play it safe, you can
park on the side streets for 2 hours, or when you arrive I can direct you
to the "secret" parking lot where I keep my car.  ;)

I can handle a large amount in my apartment, and if it gets bigger, there
are two big grassy areas just outside my place we can move speakers and
stuff to.  No problemo.


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 08:40:02 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 04:20:42 -0800
Subject: Re: The Horns of a Delimma


	I have to sympathise with Paul and Steve here - I have been having my
own reconciliation problems, except with a different set of people than them - 
my parents.  It wasn't a major problem until this past Thanksgiving.  In
trying to explain exactly what I had spent this past semester doing instead
of going to school as much as I should have, I found it hard to impart onto
them how much raves meant to me, the incredible feeling I got at the last
FMR for example, or at Connection, or at Vision, or Come/Unity, etc... I
almost got my dad to come up here for a rave a couple of weeks ago but he
cancelled at the last minute.  They called my work with semi-promoting
and finding sites and stuff worthless because I wasn't making any money from
it, and my use of e-mail an "addiction".  The sad thing is, I can see thier
point in a lot of what they say, even as I deny it strongly.  I keep trying
to pull them to go to a rave up here - I think a good FMR or maybe Sunday
in the park event would actually appeal to them, I'm not kidding - but until
they do I have to explain it in terms that makes me sound like a quack.  It's
like trying to explain Les Miserables to someone who's never read it (and no,
going to the play doesn't count!) - there is just so much there to make up the
whole picture.

	See, over the past, well, three years, I haven't had a clear picture
of what it was I liked doing.  I still don't have a clear idea.  Some people
know from the start that they want to be an aeronatical engineer, or a poet,
or a psychologist.  Me, I didn't know when I left High School and still am not
sure (though I'm much more set on Computer Science now than ever before).  So
what did I do?  What was I encouraged to do?  Find something that I liked doing
it, and pursue it whole-heartedly.  I did that through high school, I would
be interested in one thing or another, and jump into action with it until I
either did everything I could and it ended, or I got bored and moved on.  A
big phrase that propelled me, that I could see reflected in everyone I 
considered a role model, was "do what you love and the money will follow".
That might be a little idealistic for today's world, but I couldn't help but
feel that given enough perserverence, and a lotta work, it could happen.  And
I certainly didn't want to end up working in a field I disliked, I saw enough
f'd-up individuals doing that...  anyways, the point is, my first semester 
here at college was uneventful compared to h.s. - and then second semester I
found this wonderful group of people (I didn't create it - you all existed
before sfraves ever came along, this just gave you a forum to find each 
other ;) and I found something I _really_ liked doing.  So my subconscious
must have figured, well, he likes this four times as much as anything he's
ever liked before, so it must be four times as good for him!  Bzzt.  What
I didn't realize is that this is still _fun_, this is something that people
do for _recreation_, and that I can't afford (or more appropriately, my
parents can't afford) me devoting so much time and energy to this.

	So, I need to find a balance.  

	I almost feel like this would be okay with my parents if they felt
I was making money from this.  But I told them I couldn't, I wouldn't want
to, because it would hurt my motives somehow.  Maybe I'm wrong.  They warned
me against people "using me and walking all over me and getting me to do 
things for free I should demand money for"... *sigh*.  What can I reply to
this?  I mean, part of it is I freeze up in front of my parents and can't
think straight.... another part is, I _can't_ ask for money for this.  I 
can't.



	So what's the result?  Well, I'm taking a break from school, working
full-time at a computer lab, building back the same sort of discipline and
work ethic I had in high school, and going to school full-time next fall.
I will still be fully active here, and Connection 2 looms on the horizon. :)
For some reason I was able to handle all this in high school - all AP
classes, work 25 hours/week at the Wherehouse, president of clubs, ran 
X-country, had a VERY active social life, etc... without cracking.  With a
little work I think I can return to that level.

	I hope I stuck enough to the "delimma" subject here.  I've found 
myself in a delimma, but in this case it's up to me to save myself. :)  I
heard LOTSA ultimatums from them ("Well, you can always stay down here 
(Los Angeles) andgo to school at DeVry (where my dad works, a technical
school)"/"No thanks, I'd rather sleep in my car up here in Berkeley") but
I think we worked it out... now it's up to me.  

	Thank you for the exorcism, folx.  We now return to your regularly
scheduled rave reviewing and math lessons.  :)

	Brian


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 08:40:13 1992
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 92 03:38:34 -0800
Subject: Multiple topics: SFR lunch, looking for someone, heavy traffic... 

 
The Thursday south bay SFR lunches seem to have tapered off
a bit now that the cold weather has set in.  I thought I'd
offer the use of my place on Thursdays at around noon.
This Thursday (12/3) would be okay, though it could be it's
too close to the (12/2) lunch that Scott Stewart is doing.
We should definitely do it on December 10th, though.  What
do you folks think?

The address is 679 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, at the
intersection of Williams St, a few blocks from El Camino
Real (same neighborhood as The Edge, though on the otherside
of El Camino).  I'll probably post a map later. 

This will be a bring your own/potluck kind of thing, though
I'll try and supply some stuff, too.  Decent kitchen
facilities are available, with a big microwave oven, gas
oven/stove and so on.  You can send me a note if you'd like
me to stock something in particular.

----

I'd really like to get in touch with Robert Jesse, whose
email address used to be: rnj@us.oracle.com.  Anyone heard
from him recently?

----

There seems to be some sentiment in the direction of "hey,
if we're a community then I can talk about anything on this 
list".  I'd just like to suggest that folks might want to
try and limit this a bit, because in a community you try and
have some consideration for your neighbors, and it *can* be
somewhat obnoxious to have dozens of random messages dropped
in your mailbox just because you want to know what's up with
raves.  A small group of people who like to chat can drive
away the more reasonable (less committed?) people.  I'd
really like to stay away from the near worthless state that
the usenet is in...

-------

Yow, Come Unity is Tuesday night! I almost forgot about
it... it's not anywhere in Brian's rave list.  It's still at
1015 Folsom, right?

-------

Brian was saying "I just about tossed my cookies when I
heard a techno remix of the William Tell Overture."

Now *that* sounds like "Progressive Techno". 


From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 08:48:10 1992
From: cornhead@netcom.com (Jeff Miller)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 04:03:40 -0800
Subject: "Warehousemate" wanted: SoMa area


I am sending this out to the list because I think it takes a special person 
to appreciate what we have to offer and feel like I know at least a little 
about most of you:

The SmokeFactory has an opening for a housemate to share our 3500 foot mixed 
warehouse space! We're located at the corner of Mariposa and Potrero Ave., 
sort of at the crux of the South of Market area, the Mission District, and 
Potrero Hill, if you can imagine that. 

Rent will be $317 per month, utilities included. 

Please send iquiries to me directly, not to the list, and I'll send you some 
more details. But hurry, we'd like to decide on a housemate by 12/14/92, to 
move in on 1/1/93. 

-cornhead

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 09:35:43 1992
From: geoffw%nexsys@igc.apc.org (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 08:51:38 PST
Subject: ** ALERT ** :Some Observations and a plea.

This is a message that I excerped from some other mail sent out to
some of you.  I thought it was importent enough to send to the list.




			************
Anyway I really want to get this conference
thing off the ground, everyday that I look and listen to stories that people
are telling me about what is happening and what people are doing to each other
in the rave scene  I realize that WE NEED TO HAVE THIS CONFERENCE!
There is some very bad energy growing in the Scene and it does have the capability to destroy it from within. (I hate to sound so mellodramatic,
but I really think this is true) Lots of people getting busted, lots of promoters screwing each other and fighting,  indications of organized
crime/gang activity in the scene (people have told me stories of people who
were supposedly ravers putting 9mms to people's heads over bad e-deals),
and a rising amount of fights and "attitude" at some of the nicest raves.
It's easy to say the phrase "keep it alive" but Brothers and Sisters,
it also takes WORK and ACTION.  I want to have an EMERGENCY meeting
this Sunday, I don't know where yet, possibly at the place that
Richard Sunn has been having his gatherings, I will contact them, if not
there then IN THE PARK if necessary, please pass the word, we need to put
our heads together if we want the scene to grow and stay healthy.

Peace and always, always, always Keep it Alive.

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 09:54:06 1992
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 10:48:50 MST
Subject: Re: The Horns of a Delimma

Vitamin B:

> They called my work with semi-promoting
> and finding sites and stuff worthless because I wasn't making any money from
> it, and my use of e-mail an "addiction".

My family has always been really supportive of my endeavors.  My mother used
to really worry about the amount of time I spent hacking, but when I changed
my major to computer science, that worry was gone.  I've often wondered how she
would have reacted to my activities over the past year.  For a moment at Sea
Monkey Love Castle, I looked out over the crowd and thought, "I wish mom could
have seen this, I think she would have liked it."  Dad has been completely
supportive, to the point of borrowing scaffolding and other equipment for the
raves.  When I was telling him about the Communion show (before it financially
flopped that is) he was remarking about how we usually end up making a living
off something that we aren't even schooled in.  Of course, if I dropped out of
school to become a DJ, I think that support from my family would quickly
wither.  It is like what Robin Williams said, his father was completely
supportive of his comedy work as long as he had a trade like "welding" to fall
back on.

> in the park event would actually appeal to them, I'm not kidding - but until
> they do I have to explain it in terms that makes me sound like a quack.

I don't know.  I've never tried to explain the smart bar, the spiritualness,
or anything else to my dad or step-mother.  I just call it a dance and they
understand.  You should have seen the look on my face when they cut up the
floor in a fox-trot at their wedding!

> there is just so much there to make up the
> whole picture.

So color the part of the picture in that they can understand.

> sure (though I'm much more set on Computer Science now than ever before).  So
> what did I do?  What was I encouraged to do?  Find something that I liked doing
> it, and pursue it whole-heartedly.

I go in five year cycles.  I was completely set on making films in 1985 when I
graduated from highschool.  As soon as I got into the production, I found
myself staying up nights hacking.  So I switched to computer science in 1988.
I've been in it for an eternity and I hate it.  So now I stay up nights doing
raves or practicing on the mixer.  I'll finish CS (although sometimes it seems
impossible), but I hope that I won't be sitting in front of a workstation in
ten years.  I'll probably get bored of music in another four years and be
working on something else.  Isn't that life though?  I'm amazed at people who
march out of high-school get a four-year degree, then plod through the rest of
their lives doing the same 9 to 5.  Death with your eyes open.

> considered a role model, was "do what you love and the money will follow".

Not always true.  Look at how many starving artists are in this world.

> I didn't realize is that this is still _fun_, this is something that people
> do for _recreation_, and that I can't afford (or more appropriately, my
> parents can't afford) me devoting so much time and energy to this.
> 	So, I need to find a balance.  

Yeah, my eventual balance has been C's on the report card.  I've found that I
can walk into any CS test cold and pull a C.  Procrastination to the last
minute is also essential.  Of course, when you're sitting in a job where they
are priming you for the day you get the degree, grades aren't so much of a
worry.  All I need is the sheepskin, so I guess I'm lucky in that respect.

> They warned
> me against people "using me and walking all over me and getting me to do 
> things for free I should demand money for"... *sigh*.

Hmmmm, sounds like a hard attitude.  Of course, I sometimes worry that I'm
doing that to the set of friends who help us out at raves.  The smart-bar
people get the tips, the rest of the staff work for us tirelessly and INSIST
on not getting paid.  Of course, I've taken everyone out for dinner after a
successful rave, but then again, if you look at the broad picture, John and I
are in the red, while everyone else is just doing volunteer work.

> What can I reply to
> this?  I mean, part of it is I freeze up in front of my parents and can't
> think straight.... another part is, I _can't_ ask for money for this.  I 
> can't.

If all they're seeing is the bottom line and not your happiness then something
is screwed Brian.  I get the feeling that somehow they think that since they
"support" you, then you've got to take orders.  I don't know how much of this
is true.  I do know that since I cut most of the cords from home, Dad has been
much more willing to help me in any way possible.  Once I found my
independance, he kept asking me if I needed money.

> For some reason I was able to handle all this in high school - all AP
> classes, work 25 hours/week at the Wherehouse, president of clubs, ran 
> X-country, had a VERY active social life, etc... without cracking.  With a
> little work I think I can return to that level.

Watch how much sleep you get though.  BEFORE raves, I used to go to bed at
9:00 and wake up at 5:30, EVERY DAY.  Needless to say, that schedule has
changed.  I've found that I am REQUIRED to work out on a regular basis or my
body completely collapses (weird but true).

> 	Thank you for the exorcism, folx.  We now return to your regularly
> scheduled rave reviewing and math lessons.  :)

As Devin stated previously, get plenty of sunlight.  This time of year sucks,
even though I love the Christmas season.  I was wallowing in depression last
week, but thanks to the fact that I completely blew off two hellish
assignments, I feel better now :-).

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 10:35:41 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 1 Dec 1992 10:12:49 -0700
Subject: RE: Multiple topics: SFR lunch, looking for someone, heavy traffic... 


Doom Says:

>This will be a bring your own/potluck kind of thing, though
>I'll try and supply some stuff, too.  Decent kitchen
>facilities are available, with a big microwave oven, gas
>oven/stove and so on.  You can send me a note if you'd like
>me to stock something in particular.

Same goes for me and my place, great Idea Doom.

Scott (Alias NUT)



From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 12:04:03 1992
From: "Stewart, Scott*" <stewart#m#_scott*@msgate.corp.apple.com>
Date: 1 Dec 1992 11:48:11 -0700
Subject: RE: SFR lunch


>Does this mean no pizza???

I still plan on getting at least one large vegetarian Pizza with no bell
pepppers or Olives.  I also will have calistoga Water and I could pick up some
soda's by request

 Peace and Love


    XXXXX
   X     X
  X  NUT  X   
   X     X
    XXXXX  

From socal-raves-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Dec  1 12:37:18 1992
From: dicanoxes <watanabe@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 11:34:04 PST
Subject: Citrusonic

at the last CHW i went to,
a girl there was complaining about the techno vibe
citrusonic had become due to "popular demand"
citrusonic started off as a house thing
and a lot of the 'old timers' try to keep it that way
lots of people need diff types of music
whatever makes you happy

another friend of mine who used to only like hard fast techno
loves King and was so hyped on it last time i saw him

i might scam my way into borrowing a car for a couple weeks
in december so hopefully i will have time and energy
to get somewhere

 ,
dana

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 13:10:25 1992
From: zdross@ucdavis.edu
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 12:34:44 -0800
Subject: Basics...Deep Faith

Hi everyone, hope you all had great vacations, with healthy amounts of raving
thrown in with the big dinner!  I tried to get as much dancing in as possible,
so when Mike and I found out about Deep faith, we lept at the possibility.
We got there at 11, the first ones there!  We waited in the chill room until
about 2 when people arrived, and started dancing.  The DJ (Rob Hardkiss) was
really bad, in our opinion; he couldn't keep any energy going at all.  Lots
of breaks, the whole bit.  As we were commenting during a little break, they
switched to Dutch, who rocked the house hard!  It was great, and we danced
nearly continuously from 3 to 6 to the pounding tribal beats.  Man, was he
rocking out!

We talked to him afterwards, thanking him for the good set.  He was a really
cool guy, and was happy that someone appreciated his efforts.  I think that
it is important to thank the DJs; they aren't just there for the money.
Scott Hardkiss came on and laid down some great trance, just in time to send
us off home and call it a great night.  Great warmup for Basics!

Basics was awesome.  Every DJ had their hand in working up the crowd.  Lots
of great tribal beats.  The crowd was very cool, lots of e.  Jeno wrapped
it all up with a powerful set at the end that left Mike and I speechless.
It was cool to see Mykl and Susie there, good to see faces behind the text.
The next (and last) Basics should be great as well.  I urge all of you to 
go and dance all night long!

I hope that all of you had similar experiences this vacation, and I hope to
see all of you at Basics.

Zak

From sfraves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec  1 18:19:53 1992
From: elizabet@cadence.com (Elizabeth Medel)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 16:46:34 -0800
Subject: Re: more samples

MyklG (of groove inc.) says:

|That's from Fire by The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, a pop hit during
|the late 60's...

andy (hawkeye)(dali) lama asks:

> Serious?  I'm sure plenty of MST3K fans would recognize it as well, as
> they've used it a few times on there...That seems wierd that it would
> be from a 60's pop song....

Trust me. Being a 60's babe myself, I owned the 45 (was it on Parrot
records?)

Elizabeth.
elizabet@cadence.com

From bbehlen Thu Dec  3 21:33:14 1992
From: Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B) <bbehlen>
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 92 21:32:15 -0800
Subject: Come/Unity and Comp/Uter trouble...


If it's not one machine then it's another... :)

Well, medisg.stanford.edu is down for a little bit, so if you've been
getting bounced mails resend them now, I'm temporarily running it off
of soda.  (which means, sfraves-request won't catch the bounces from 
bad addresses - this is only temporary, don't worry).  

Anyways, Come/Unity was a blast - I do stand slightly corrected, it
was 18+ only after 2am (and they were still checking ID's, so if you
lost yer wallet... :)  There weren't more people there than usual, and
the visuals weren't any different than the last time, but the energy 
was still great enough to feul us 4 non-dosing ravers until 6am.

Garth played a great set, as usual, but he hasn't been buying as many
new records as he should have... his set sounded exactly like his lasyt
couple of sets I've heard.  Jeno, on the other hand, played some GREAT
stuff - a few songs after coming on he played this funk-era song, live
bass and drums, the whole thang, which he then bridged into a song which
was, say, 25% house and 75% funk, then 50%house/50%funk, etc... almost
as if he were showing the connection between the two.  It was cool...
then a while later he played this song that at first sounded like it
was causing massive 50htz feedback somewhere - the bass at first was
a constant tone rather than a beat.  Then it feintly started fading in
and out, then fading in and out more radically, until it became a
sine-wave beat sound... it was pretty cool.  A look at the label revealed
it to be "Edge of Motion" by Motion Beyond.

They used a different space for the chill room this time, and in my opinion
is wasn't as good as having it in the front room because it was just behind
the front right speaker stack and you got a horrible hum in there.  Ah well.
The people were friendly, and there were cushions everywhere (but no
Richard Sun / Malachy ambient setup like before... ah well.)

All in all, the best $5 I've spent in exactly one month.  :)

	Brian

p.s. - all through the night I felt these dig drops of water falling on
me - I thought it was sweat from someone dancing or maybe someone with a
water gun, until I decided to take a look up.  Then I saw that all the
skylights were sopping wet with condensation due to the heat inside.  I
had only heard the phrase "the room was a sweat-box" metaphorically before.
:)


