From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU Thu Jul  1 19:03:28 1993
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 93 17:26:27 -0700
Subject: Re: DJ Worship (was slip into neutral (was rave FAQ)) 


This is getting interesting here... I was just thinking
about how the rave culture differs from the hip-hop culture,
in that there's less emphasis on having the DJ showing off
and doing flashy tricks.  You know there's a hip-hop
competition, that people try and win by playing records
upside down, standing on their head, etc.  In contrast, rave
DJs almost try and fade into the background.  If you don't
go out of your way to keep track of these things, you
wouldn't know who was spinning (it's really easy to miss the
change between DJs).  It can actually be kind of annoying
when DJs start indulging themselves a bit too much and
forget about just doing the job ("let's wake 'em up with
this obnoxious industrial track!  Or I know, let's check
their disco-tolerance!  Or how about reviving this old
top-40 hit!").

So yeah, the "master/king/queen" bit seems a bit strong...
though on some level you have to recognize the importance of
the DJ in working with the crowd, facillitating/coordinating/encouraging
the vibe... 


From laura@usl.com Sat Jul  3 10:10:12 1993
From: laura@usl.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 13:05 EDT
Subject: Shaken but Not Stirred

A lot of you out West have been following the exploits of those of us in 
other areas trying to start our own FMR's, so I'm cross-posting this to 
sfraves.

It rained, it stopped, we set up (1.5 hours late).  The cops came FOUR 
times and each time left us alone, never even suggested we should leave, 
one even said he didn't care if were there so long as we weren't drinking.
(This was at the site Ed and I had sat up very late TWICE at, and neither
time did any police show).

I was on my way to grab my crate when the cops came for the 5th time, this
time with two cars and lots of spotlights.  They said if we didn't leave
we'd be arrested, so I said we'd leave, we'd even clean everything up,
they just had to have time to get everything out.

As we were breaking down they set a road block and checked every car's
registration and every driver's license.  They asked questions.  They
kept riding us to get the gear broken down faster, and we were working
as fast as we could.

I followed the sound truck (driven by Ed) out of the site, wanting to be
last so he wouldn't be left alone with the police.  They were fine to me,
just looked at my license and registration, and attempted to make "small
talk" about where I live and work.  I, of course, answered with the exact
same information that they gained by reading my license.  The cop who 
"interviewed" me remarked "So, I suppose you are the mastermind of all 
this." I smiled sweetly and said, "no, not exactly" and he left it at that.

We got back to Ed's okay, and the typical ne-raves chillathon/DJathon
ensued.  It wasn't until I logged in that I found out about the cops taking
Ed's name so that the neighbors could eventually press charges if they feel
the desire.

Now I'm utterly shaken.  I don't want Ed to get in trouble for this.  The
first we heard of any noise problems was when they came to tell us to get
out, and we got out immediately.  They could have arrested us for trespassing
since the site is ostensibly closed from sunset to sunrise, but people go 
up there all the time to make out.

Pre-bust was a complete success . . . I'm just too emotionally overwrought
about the bust and the threats to Ed that I can't find much enjoyment in
it all.  Sigh.  I wanted so much for this night, and I feel like I failed
everyone and I'm sitting here in tears.  I know we shouldn't give up and
we should just be triple sure about our site the next time around, but I
can't find the strength right now to think about a next time.  I know
busts are part of the game, and you other organizers deal with them all 
the time . . . but this is the first rave I ever tried to throw, and so
was also the first rave I've ever thrown that's been busted.  I want to
bring to vibe to life here, to give New Jersey something of its own rather
than being just a satellite to New York.

Oh well.  I'd like to thank EVERYONE who came, you were all 100% loving,
good-spirited, and cooperative.  I'd especially like to thank my partner
in crime, Ed, who risked more than I really realized.  I love you all for
being there with us, and for coming back to Ed's afterwards and being so
warm and happy with each other.

If anyone has any advice for us, please drop it by.  Brian, if you could
send me your site-hunting guidelines, that would be most appreciated.

Love and community,

Laura

From bbehlen  Sat Jul  3 15:57:17 1993
From: bbehlen@soda (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 15:57:17 -0700
Subject: test

test

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 16:15:00 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 15:26:02 -0700
Subject: party the fourth




Annoucing: The Creation of a New Geek House - name as yet unknown.
Color: Orange.
Decore: Mostly unpacked boxes.
Residents: Beeman, Lore, Omni, Parade, and the PONA Twins - Lynda and Danny.
Event: Joint celebration of the United State's 217th anniversary and 
       the 0th anniversary of our new house.
Time: July 4th, 1993, 9pm.
Location: 211 Pearl St.  Within screaming distance of the Boardwalk.
Theme: The ever patriotic color of Orange.
Contest: Best names for our illustrious new abode.
Parking: Little or none near the house.
Accessories: You bring them.  We don't have have much here yet.
             Some orange items will be provided.
Donations and Housewarming gifts: Gladly accepted.
Explosives: None.  Possible passive firework display viewing.
Phone: Craig 425-3598, Russ 423-9697, or the others when they get their 
       phones connected.
Map:

Hwy 1       Ocean st. exit		Presuming you know where Ocean St.
--------------------------------------  in Santa Cruz is, just head south on it
		|			until you get to a stop sign instead of
Mission/Water	|			a stop light.  Then, make a left, and
--------------------------------------  after than make a right.  Drive about
		|			3/4 of the way down the block and you
Soquel		|			will see a giant orange house on the 
--------------------------------------  right, with white trim.  Now, look for
		|			a place to park.  You may have to 
Laurel/Broadway |			get creative or walk a little ways.
--------------------------------------
		|
		|O
		|c	
		|e				N
		|a				|
		|n			      W---E    
		|				|
		|S				S
		|t
		|.		This map is not to scale!
		|
	 Togo's | Deli     Barson St.
	--------|--------------------|
		|		|	Pearl is a 1-way street going south.
		|		|P  
		|		|e 
		|		|a	The house is big and orange with
		|		|r	white trim.  It's rather noticeable.
		|		|l
		|	     XX |
		|	    211 |S
		|		|t
		|  ??? st       |.
	-----------------------------
		|		|
		|		|
		| San Lorenzo   |
	-------------------------------------



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 17:48:48 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 16:57:56 -0700
Subject: FMR: Sooo many people

	Yow.  459 cars counted at 4:30am.  Yow.  Cops blocking the only
route to the site, the tunnel, at 5am.  (Sound like England 1989 to anyone?)
Yow.  1500 conservative, 2000 people liberal estimate of people there, even
though the park was so big it didn't feel like it at all.  Had those 2000
shown up at Berkeley MArina it would have definitely been felt...

	Anyways, I got to the site around quarter to 2 to find about 30 cars there
already, outside the parking lot which had been roped off.  I surreptitiously
removed the rope and wood sawhorses and told everyone to get inside the 
parking lot.  Since I was the only one there I hadn't a chance of directing
parking as well as we had at Palo Alto, so I just hoped that people would
get a clue and park intelligently on their own, which didn't quite happen but
no one was blocked in... 

	The 2 hours were sheer hell - car after car after car showed up, and
I tried to manage getting cars in and aiming them in the right direction but
quickly realized it was fractalizing out of my control so I quit... then people
started setting off fireworks in the parking lot, and even though we were 
relatively sound-secure I thought there'd be no quicker way to get cops to show
up.  Ditto for loud car stereos.  The parking lot soon filled up, and people
started parking on the street.  By the time I counted the cars at 4:30 the
line of cars had stretched a half-mile in both directions.

	The sound van arrived around 3 and went to go set up.  They took the
usual amount of time to get connected, so the music didn't get going until
quarter to 4.  I was completely floored by the fact that we had survived as
long as we had with as many people as we had.  Once the music got going I
was sure we'd be a lot better off, but until that time things were just 
insane.

	Then Jeno laid down a nice, bassy first track, and the multitudes of
people flocked towards the dance floor, which was a field maybe 150 yards away
from the parking lot.  It was like something out of the Old Testament, a 
real exodus-in-reverse.  Soon everyone was gone from the parking lot and I
felt a LOT better.  

	The crowd was really young, but they had incredible energy, and
it was focused around the turntables in the center (more feul for the
DJ worship thread).  I took a walk to see how the sound carried and count the
cars.  I walked to the residences I was most concerned about, and though the
sounds was clear, it wasn't so loud that complaints would be expected.

	I walked back and danced in the crowd, but the energy felt weird,
simply because there were SOO many people.  Also, the constant WOOOOSH of
the nitrous tank was getting to me......

	So I walked out by the water and danced on top of a flatbed trailer
out on the railroad tracks.  It was great - the sunrise was starting, and the
moon was setting, and I reached out at one point and held each in a hand,
and felt some very odd yin-yang power going on there.... and I opened my
eyes and could see downtown, and that old familiar feeling came through.
This alone was worth those two hours of sheer hell.

	From the train tracks I could look up at the tunnel we came through, 
and I saw a pair of police red n' blooz sitting up there.  It wasn't moving,
and there weren't any down below, so I wasn't concerned.  Then a friend,
Lynn, walked up and said she had just arrived - she snuck around the cops by
going completely around the peninsula the tunnel went through, coz the cops
had blocked off the entrance to the tunnel.  

	I told this to Geoff, and what he said made sense, that they're 
probably not going to try and hold us in, they're prolly there just to make 
sure it doesn't get any bigger or keep some of our friends from downtown 
Richmond from joining in on the fun.  But sure enough, at 6:30 5 police cars
made their way down the road to the site, and about a dozen cops walked to
the DJ stand.  A friend of the promoters, who has talked to cops at FMR's
before, walked up and chatted... I saw them smile at times, and nod heads..
and then he walked over to me and the others and said, "no problem, just turn
the sound down and turn it off in 15 minutes."  *sigh*.  Oh well.  Garth had
just jumped on the tables and was laying down some truely good grooves...
okay, given DJ worship IS a bad thing, but these guys do earn their place
in many people's hearts.

	At this point I became more and more concerned with the voluminous
trash we had made, both at the dance area and the parking lot.  I cursed
myself for forgetting trashbags, but when I found one I made sure I picked up
ALL the trash around where the cops were standing :)  By the time the sound
was packed up, the dance floor was fairly clean, but the parking lot was still
a mess.  And the parking lot had JUST been resurfaced, there weren't even
lines yet, so I know SOMEONE's gonna be a tad angry... 

	So the word spread around that it's being moved to Berkeley Marina,
and we all headed there.  By 8pm the sound system was going, and within the
next half hour there maybe 500 people grooving and being mellow in front of
a niiiice acid-house set by Garth (which included the new Drum Club remixes
of Exit 23 by PSychic Warriors of Gaia, for you PWOG fans) which felt really
good in the direct morning sun..  The hazy fog made the view less fantastic
than usual... but everyone was so damn happy and the sun so strong no one
cared really.  A cop car did cruise along the pathway, as did a parks patrol,
but didn't stop.  They know us by now.

	So, overall, it was really a lot of fun.  I'm glad people liked the
site, but I'll feel really responsible if I hear it got trashed.... arg.
I still can't believe the number of people there, it was larger than any other
full moon I've been too - the 2nd Bonny Doon party (1400 est) and Grey Whale
Cove (1000?) come close....

	Sorry to hear the NJ FMR got hassled.  How was Seattle?

	Brian




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 18:57:54 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 18:10:15 PDT
Subject: Re: Shaken but Not Stirred



	Cops like to kick butt and take names.

	They always ask me my name, when I'm talking to them.

	The attitude that I always have with them is that I'm not

	a criminal, I'm not doing anything wrong, I just want to dance.

	Never argue with them, but you can ask Strategic Questions.


				-G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 19:05:35 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 18:20:41 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: SFRaves Family (was: ...VISION thang)


Brian Behlendorf says:

> 	SFRaves and the fractalizing threads that have led from it are the
> most significant thing that's ever happened to me.  I know most other people
> aren't going to go to THAT level of enthusiasm but I want people to feel what
> I'm feeling.

At the danger of restarting a similar thread to 'Is it Just a Party?' a while
back....

Personally, raving has been one of the most significant turning points in my
life.  If I could look back and map my own spiritual development and measure
the significance of my experiences wrt how I view myself and others, there
would be definite peaks.  Raving is one of those peaks.

Sure, I believe (or at least hope) that our lives are a non-ending road to
self enlightenment and that there have been and will be other experiences
outside of raving that are peak experiences.  However, raves initially
turned me on to a new way of viewing the world and opened up my mind to a
multitude of ideas that had always simply been teasers at the edges of my
thoughts.

Some of you may be reading between the lines and inserting you favoirte 
capital letter vowels, and I must admit that at first this was the case.  
But today, I'm working on recreating the vibe through everyday living.
Trying to love and spread positivity rather than negativity -- though this
has been and still is hard at times; me being a cynic at heart.  I also grew
up with alot of 'anger' that is still reluctantly leaving the core of my 
being (be gone, ye vile demons! :)

I guess what this all leads to is my own personal thanks to Brian and to
everyone else on the sfraves list who has touched my life and made me
consider possibilities I might not otherwise have.  There is something about
this electronic forum that allows us to open up.  Perhaps because we feel
'protected' by the remoteness of our terminals from the critical eye of
others, or perhaps because we have a chance to organize our thoughts more at
our own leisure.  Whereas these same attributes also cause major flame wars
on other lists and newsgroups, here they are simply presented and absorbed
by the sfraves family.

> See you all at Connection 3!!

Having missed CI and CII :( I truly am looking forward to this event.  A
chance to meet even more sfraves family!


-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 19:08:58 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 18:13:11 PDT
Subject: HELP RIDE TO  GATHERING NEEDED!



	Hi I did something to my car last night and it will
	be out of commission for a day or two, can anybody
	give me a ride to Let Freedom Rave Tonight?

	I live in Mountain View (near palo alto and won't
	mind going late. If you can, call me ASAP and leaver a message
	if I'm still asleep!!

P.S. The FMR last night completely and utterly tore it up!!!!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 19:29:54 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 18:33:19 -0700
Subject: Let Freedom Rave tonight

... will apparently be in the same place as last year's, in a motorcyle
arena outside Livermore.  415-267-4800 has the directions... the site is
not bad, a little dusty but it means I won't feel guilty in the morning
for destroying anything by dancing on it :)  Anyways, that's probably
where I'd headed. 

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 20:28:04 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 22:36:28 -0400
Subject: FMR was too big.  (but YSH was great!)

Found myself at the FMR last night (the one in SF!).  Great site, in an
East Bay park right on the water with a nice view of Mt. Tamalpais and
the Richmond Bridge, etc. etc.  There were RR tracks along the water
and a dead freight train there which you could climb on top of --
really nice "chill" after dancing for awhile.  Kudos to the FMR
organizers.  But ...

There were just too many people.  The vibe just got lost, and too much
attitude.  The last FMR was pretty big too, but the vibe was good, esp.
after it got moved to Candlestick and thinned out.  (all right, all
right, maybe I judge too fast -- this one got moved to the Berkeley
Marina after the cops busted it at 7am, and I didn't follow it, so
maybe it got better)  I'm just getting the feeling that the FMR's are
getting too above-ground.  The place was pretty trashed at 7 as we
were leaving; I just the got feeling that too many people didn't give
a shit.  Compare this to ...

Your Sister's House on Thursday, which IMHO was truly wonderful.  It
was in a flat near Alamo Square, and a gorgeous flat at that ...  third
and fourth floors of an old Victorian, with a dance studio, a deck,
and a nice "beanbag space" on the fourth floor, with views out over
the city in all directions.  The dance studio, where the spinning was
going on, had mirrors along one or two walls and windows along a couple
walls; you could look out through a big window and clearly see the Civic
Center building not far off, all lit up.

It felt more like a "house party", like some party in someone's house
that you might get invited to, than your traditional "rave".  Now parties
like this can be either Really Good or Really Bad, you know, just
depending on the crowd, and this one was Really Really Good.  The size
was just right for the space, maybe 100 - 200 people, and it was real
easy to talk to people and get to know them.  Really friendly group.
The age range was a bit older (20's mostly) than at lots of raves; I
guess there's a corresponding decrease in attitude.  DJ's were Shobhan,
Charlotte? (from Chicago), and Nikki Rivera, who spun a really killer
set and got everyone on their feet dancing.

I'm real hopeful that more events like this will come up and continue
to put life into this scene!!  When it's great, it's really great, as
they say ...

ben
---
"... then the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was
more painful than the risk it took to blossom." -- Anais Nin

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 20:51:08 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 22:46:44 -0400
Subject: Re: some pre-FMR thoughts

In article <9307021807.AA16370@cassy.lurnix.com> winston@lurnix.com writes:
|There are also some Taoist chi kung meditation practices of "drinking" the
|light of the sun or full moon in order to gather chi, or personal power.
|
|-Mark
|

There was a really neat moment for me at the latest FMR ...  right around
5:30am, I was standing by the water and the moon was about to set in the
West, luminous and big, and there was light radiating from the hill to
the East, where the sun was rising, and with the large 360-degree view
you get from that position, I had the sudden sensation of standing on a
big round disk, with a line connecting the sun and the moon, and the
disk rotating around with the line; it was like, all that intellectual
astronomy stuff I learned in school, it suddenly seemed REAL ...

ben
---
"... then the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was
more painful than the risk it took to blossom." -- Anais Nin

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 21:13:05 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 23:15:53 -0400
Subject: Re: rave FAQ 

In article <199306301900.AA19478@leakey.oac.uci.edu> Joachim writes:
|
|   As for the use of 'they', 'them' or 'their' as singular pronouns, I
|am highly supportive of it.  And I was very happy to read that writers
|are starting to support this usage as well.
|

Of course, there's always "sie", "hir", and "hir" as used in some
Usenet newsgroups ...  (I guess these are pronounced "see" and "here")

ben

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul  3 22:49:58 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 22:11:15 PDT
Subject: Vibe Worship--Yes [long]

My mailer says that John S. Lee said:
> 
> But having an attitude of,
> "i'm new, I DESERVE to be heard" will get you nowhere.  Especially since
> news travels fast in a 7x7 square called SF.  
> 
Ain't it the truth! And not just in SF, but everywhere.  "The" scene 
(whichever one we care to talk about) has much in common with the small
town I grew up in [less than 2000 people, and all incredibly familiar 
with the entire milieu, since they've all been living in it for years, 
possibly *generations*].  And the inside of the scene is that smaller
still.

Anyway, I wanted to take a moment to thank John for the advice he 
offered on the topic.  I especially enjoy hearing the voice of the
"third" side of the DJ tables, namely, the people who put these things on.
We've all been on the dancers end, some have been on the DJ side, and fewer
still have been on the promoter side. (I'm sure there's more sides to the
table; they escape me at the moment.) The comments in this thread about 
who the crowd is and how they critique the music have been spot-on -- I'm
a really fierce critic of technique and selection--because I "know" the
music, the techniques, and have my own theories about technique and music
choice.  Which is, ultimately the reason I'm so interested in doing DJ work.
It's kind of the same story with how I started cooking and ended up as
assistant chef at a French restaurant for a while--I ate the food, and
didn't quite like it, and thought I could do better, so I went about 
learning how to prepare food, and what the buyer/eater wanted, and how
they wanted the food prepared, and how much, and so forth.  It's a lot
like that in public music work.  Ultimately, it all boils down to what the
buyer (in our case, the dancing public) want to dance to.

I would like to add, vis a vis the quoted passage above, that everyone
certainly benefits from more, and more convenient sources of exposure for
"new" DJs, sound people, visual people, et al.
"Mega" (and I use the word guardedly) raves in which thousands or tens of
thousands of dollars are on the line are probably *not* the right place
for such exposure.  And if those opportunities don't exist, I for one have
an enlightened self-interest in helping to create them.  I'm "working the
crowd" myself to get more exposure, and I have the benefit of a variety of
talents and resources unavailable to lots of other folks who are undoubtedly
*much* better at the tables than I am.  So, I can imagine what a challenge 
it can be for others working to get gigs. Email me offline if you, too, 
are interested in working to create opportunities for unknown talent to
"showcase".

We're certainly wandering far afield from the initial direction of this 
thread (which is no doubt the reason the title keeps changing--hehee (i've 
been helping that along, too)), which was some criticisms directed at
verbiage in Brian's FAQ.  I'll be really up front--I personally don't have
the awe for the name talent in this town that I've seen others
evince here and in other forums.  I respect their abilities, and I respect
the fact that they get the gigs, and that people like them.  There's no
denying them their propers!  But (always that word) I've heard as good and
better in other places.  I am not saying that people should get a free 
ride just because.  However, there is a certain amount of "old boy network"
that exists--partly the small town effect, partly the scarcity of events,
partly the small promoter list, partly the small talent pool, partly lots
of other things.  And there's no denying that name==draw. It is also surely
the case that if a promoter has been to an event with DJ BigName playing, and
they saw the crowd waving their hands in the air (hehee), they are going
to want that for their event.  With DJ NoName at the tables, the promoter
doesn't know *what* will happen.  They might be able to guess, but they
won't know.  And if it were my dollars on the table, I can guess how I
might choose if the dollars were piled up in a big stack.  But that's not
*my point*.

At most of the bigger events, I couldn't see the DJ if
I wanted to--they are often hidden in the booth, or by the crowd.  Most of
the time, *who* the DJ is isn't important to me.  What *is* important to 
me--Bryce as Raver--is how *I* feel, and how the other dancers
*feel* about the entire experience.

*That's* realy what my point in this thread has been.  I personaly can tell
a Jeno set from a Garth set from an Ernie Munson set from a Pete Avila set
from a .... you catch the drift.  I know because I know their styles and
what music progressions they choose and what music they've played in the
past.  That's purely a technical observation, however, and only a few people
in any crowd are going to be that sensitive. I also know because I make it
a point to follow the DJs (but that's Bryce as DJ/critic). 

Who's spinning, though, really *doesn't* matter to me in my raver aspect.  

What matters to me as raver is: 
     How's the Vibe?  And,
     Are people getting out of the experience what they *need* AND what 
          they *want*? 

The DJ is one part of that, but *not* the center of those questions (IMO).  The
real answer (again, IMO) is the entire gestalt--the dancers, the equipment,
the promoters, the venue, the *totality* of experience and expectation brought
to and experienced at the event. 

Raver Bryce doesn't go to an event for the DJ, the promoter, the [insert your 
description] equipment, the venue, or the attendees, or whatever, 
as entities unto themselves.  Raver Bryce will go if he believes he will have 
a good time, learn something, meet some interesting people, and be able 
to shoot his luv phasors off into the ether and contribute something 
positive to the Vibe. Your Mileage May Vary.

Hence, my statement: DJ Worship--Not! 
And, I would add:
Dancer worship--Not! Promoter worship--Not!
Equipment worship--Not! Venue worship--Not! Event worship--Not!

Vibe worship--Yes!
-- 
BryceR -- Bryce Ryan -- Specializing in AMBIANCE -- brycer@netcom.com
TAZ's 1101, 1260, A5, G2 & 23.6 (our choice)
"Always strengthen the Vibe--it will never let us down." (Respect to jondr)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 01:31:42 1993
From: Kyle Farrell <orb@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 00:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: place to stay?

Two friends & I will be in town around the last week of July and are
looking for a place to stay, hopefully a backyard to camp out in or
something.  I promise we won't worship any djs or bug anyone about
terrorism. :)
-Kyle




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 04:53:07 1993
From: leslie ann pawlovich <lpawl@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 93 06:59:21 -0400
Subject: Re:  Let Freedom Rave tonight

will you verify me for vraves?? thanks. dont know if previous mess.
got through. great faq.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 10:18:14 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 93 09:20:30 -0800
Subject: Tribal Transmission in the park - today

picked up a flyer at Tweekin' Records:

	Tribal Broadcast in the Park
	Bring a Receiver (Boombox, Radio...)
	[415] 626-2068

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 10:26:36 1993
From: ROCKMAN <cmkoski@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 12:14:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A special deal for sfravers

B

On Wed, 30 Jun 1993, Pete Reiter wrote:

> 
> As a few of you know, Mike W. and I have been working on a little side
> project to produce DJ Mix CDs. Well our first offering, 
> "Garth: No Rest For the Wicked" is now available. It's a 64 minute set, 
> recorded to directly to DAT, and all of the clicks, pops, and other nasty
> sounds have been digitally removed, so the sound quality is pretty good.
> 
> We're offering a special deal for all of our friends at sfraves. For sfravers 
> only, this CD is available for just $10.
> 
>B If you want a copy, just find one of us and identify yourself. I might have
> some copies at Your Sister's House. Both Mike and I will be at the Full Moon
> on Friday night and at the Gathering on Saturday night. If you don't know
> what we look like, ask around or send mail.
> 
>                                                 Pete
A
What happens if you're on SFR and you're from Canada...can I still get a copy?



ROCKMAN


##############################      
########              ########   COME TO CANADA -- CHECK OUT OUR BEAVERS! :)
########     _/\_     ########
########  _|\|  |/|_  ########   ALL VISITORS WELCOME!!!
########  \ CANADA /  ########
########   /__  __\   ########   FOR TRAVEL INFO, CONTACT:  ROCKMAN
########      ||      ########
########              ########   @ INTERNET:  CMKOSKI@THUNDER.LAKEHEADU.CA
##############################



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 11:50:40 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 93 11:04:11 PDT
Subject: Brit UNIVERSE in Sonoma?


Happy 4th of July!

 In the "Lively Arts" section of the pink "DateBook" section of the
sunday San Francisco Chronicle was a small article , which I will 
try to transcribe ...

---------------------------------------------------------------

RAVE NEW WORLD

 Universe, a British rave production company, reportedly
has its eyes on a Sonoma County site for a big
American venture at month's end. Last April, this organization
attracted a crowd of 25,000 to a muddy 
field outside Bath in rural England. The ravers were 
entertained through the night into morning under
five circus tents by little more than light shows, deejays 
spinning records and free carnival rides. The
company eschewed the mainstream media and promoted
the event through subterranean means, so,
perhaps not surprisingly, calls to the producers' British
offices were not returned.

				Joel Selvin
				Chronicle Pop Music Critic
				July 4th, 1993 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 So , which event are they talking about? Have there been flyers for
this yet? Are the promoters , Universe , good people?

 				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 11:50:51 1993
From: ROCKMAN <cmkoski@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 12:14:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A special deal for sfravers

B

On Wed, 30 Jun 1993, Pete Reiter wrote:

> 
> As a few of you know, Mike W. and I have been working on a little side
> project to produce DJ Mix CDs. Well our first offering, 
> "Garth: No Rest For the Wicked" is now available. It's a 64 minute set, 
> recorded to directly to DAT, and all of the clicks, pops, and other nasty
> sounds have been digitally removed, so the sound quality is pretty good.
> 
> We're offering a special deal for all of our friends at sfraves. For sfravers 
> only, this CD is available for just $10.
> 
>B If you want a copy, just find one of us and identify yourself. I might have
> some copies at Your Sister's House. Both Mike and I will be at the Full Moon
> on Friday night and at the Gathering on Saturday night. If you don't know
> what we look like, ask around or send mail.
> 
>                                                 Pete
A
What happens if you're on SFR and you're from Canada...can I still get a copy?



ROCKMAN


##############################      
########              ########   COME TO CANADA -- CHECK OUT OUR BEAVERS! :)
########     _/\_     ########
########  _|\|  |/|_  ########   ALL VISITORS WELCOME!!!
########  \ CANADA /  ########
########   /__  __\   ########   FOR TRAVEL INFO, CONTACT:  ROCKMAN
########      ||      ########
########              ########   @ INTERNET:  CMKOSKI@THUNDER.LAKEHEADU.CA
##############################



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 12:15:34 1993
From: ROCKMAN <cmkoski@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 12:26:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Get off the pot and talk about raves...

I've been watching the SFR list for about a month and I really enjoy the
discussions.  But when I am away from my terminal for a few days, I don't
read my mail (it usually is a daily habit).  I DON'T want to unsubcribe,
so for all the people who are pleading for you to keep the terrorism and
the political stuff off the list, you're not just doing them a service,
you are doing everyone a service.  We'll all apreciate it in the end.

If I get a lot of heat because of this, then that's the way it would have
to be, but realize the others who are making 'suggestions' are right in
that the idea of SFR is to talk about rave related issues, not wars and
the NEW WORLD ORDER (that is what the NEW EMPIRE thread sounded like to
me).  So forget about politics, and guns...  That's what raves are for
right?  to forget the bullshit and have a communal experience with some
kicking music??????

Just a thought...

Rave on!!!!
Rockman

##############################      
########              ########   COME TO CANADA -- CHECK OUT OUR BEAVERS! :)
########     _/\_     ########
########  _|\|  |/|_  ########   ALL VISITORS WELCOME!!!
########  \ CANADA /  ########
########   /__  __\   ########   FOR TRAVEL INFO, CONTACT:  ROCKMAN
########      ||      ########
########              ########   @ INTERNET:  CMKOSKI@THUNDER.LAKEHEADU.CA
##############################


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 15:53:12 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 14:52:19 -0700
Subject: FOOLISHLY BRAVE RAVERS SAVE THOUSANDS - DETAILS AT 11

You think I'm kidding.

Last night Let Freedom RAve was held in this motorcycle arena outside of 
Livermore, amongst rolling hills filled with dry grass.  At 3am we looked
up in horror at a hill next to the dance floor to see a small brush fire
starting, and within minutes it had spread to cover the area of a small
house.  People were stunned, mortified, and bug-eyed.  My biggest fears
were about to be realized - there were 3000 people there with a single
exit, and perhaps a third to half the people who would be expected to drive
were in no condition to.  The road leading to the hillside was blocked
with cars, meaning fire engines could not pass.  Should we stay?  Should
we go?

A voice came on the mike and said, "If we all pitch in we can put this
thing out!  Everyone grab a 5-gallon water jug and run up the hill",
followed 20 second later by Martin's voice saying, "Get down of the hill
now!"  There were a couple people who had run up the hill to the fire,
and were stomping on the flames.  Telling kids on drugs to put out a fire
is NOT what I think typifies common sense - but when I thought about it,
if we followed common sense the fire would only spread and we'd be in 
trouble for sure.  Should I get in the car and go?  Should I stay and help
put it out?  I moved my car right next to the exit, grabbed the fire 
extinguisher, and ran up to the hill.  Unbelievably, the flames had started
to go down - there were maybe 30 people up there, dousing the flames, stomping
on embers, etc.  I sprayed the extinguisher on some of the hot spots, and
when it became obvious the fire was out, all the people on the hill turned
towards the dance floor (the lights had come on and people had joined together
to watch the process) and cheered - and in reply, the rest of the crowd 
cheered, hugged, whooped for joy.... and then the music kicked back in,
and *everyone* was dancing, while those of us on the hill continued to
look for embers.  The security told us to get off the hill coz the fire
trucks had arrived (and had indeed found a way up the hill).  

	The party went on all night, incredulously, and because of that
event the vibe was just intensely overpowering.  

	I spent the rest of the night completely tripping on the deep
philosophical implications of what just happened.  I mean, I usually have a
pretty clear head (I like to think) - and I usually pray to the altar of
common sense.  But in this case, "common sense" would dictate that people
get down off the hill and wait for the fire trucks to arrive to take care
of it.  However, had they done that, a real California-style brush fire
would have followed.  We weren't super-vulnerable, all the cars were parked
on packed dirt as was the dancefloor and arena, but certainly the smoke would
do damage to everyone's lungs, and the chaos that would have ensued would
have meant at least some fatalities.  I had also helped with parking that
night, and if our method of parking had meant that people couldn't get out
as quickly as they needed to, and something really tragic had happened because
of it.... I don't think I'd be able to go to another party for QUITE some time.
As I went to my car to make my decision, I saw some friends run by going,
"It's a sure bust, we're getting out of here".  That was the logical, 
self-preservational thing to do... 

It was incredible, is all I can say.  Being a witness to the 1991 Oakland
Hills fire, I knew the terrible potential of a hillside full of dry grass.
All I can say for sure is.... Mother Luck dealt this community a VERY fine
hand last night, and we should thank her for it!!!

Okay, now for the rest of the party....

The location was the same as was used last year for this same party.  It
was REALLY dusty - and I really really do not like dancing in dirt, but I
let that slide in order to enjoy myself.  It was also really really windy,
which make the smoke machine they had placed on top of the DJ hut pretty
ineffective.  The location was plenty big for the 3000 people who showed.

The music was on spot - recently I've become bored with the Jeno-Garth
combo because they keep playing the same songs, but tonight they put out
incredibly good sets.  I know I know, DJ worship and all, but they are
consistant and strong and there are some fantastic tracks that Garth
plays that I've heard no one else play...

The crowd - eh, on par with what you'd expect from such a large party,
perhaps slightly better (quite a few costumes and such), and it's evident
that my fears of bad E going around the rave scene are perhaps too high :)
But after the fire, the crowd became LEGENDARY.... everyone was grooving
along, there was NO bad attitude, and when the sun rose people looked up
on the hillside to see the blackened stretch of hill, and that blackness
became a symbol of some sorts, to the strength (luck?) of the community.
Many people walked up there to watch the sun rise and look down upon the
dancers.  The morning was really really good.  

I left around 7am, tired from two nights of hard work/raving, and battled 
fatigue on the long drive home.  It was definitely worth the drive out,
*almost* worth the $20 (but to someone with a real job it was definitely
worth that :)  

	Brian

p.s. - I'm listening to the flyer/CD right now, and the tracks on it are
actually very good!  No UVC though... *sigh*




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 17:06:31 1993
From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 16:07:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raves: Relapsing or Reviving?


  It was just about a year ago when there was a rash of posts -- here and
on alt. rave -- that proclaimed the actual or imminent death of raving
in the US of A. Commercialization, police infiltration, apathy -- there
were plenty of reasons given.  But as I look around now in the Bay Area,
raving seems more vital than ever. Am I too optimistic, or were the
doomsayers wrong (or, at least, premature)?




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 17:29:04 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 16:27:56 -0700
Subject: Re: FOOLISHLY BRAVE RAVERS SAVE THOUSANDS - DETAILS AT 11

I should add: the fire was most likely started by fireworks, for there were
lots of them going off despite the intense search at the entrance.  It was
on the hill the laser was shining on, but the laser was sufficiently 
diffuse that I doubt it could have started it.  After the fire, the laser
came on and wrote something like, "LET'S ALL HAVE FUN... WITHOUT FIREWORKS"

Later on the laser wrote out, "Dawn G will you marry me signed Phillip..."
followed about 10 minutes later by "Yes I will signed dawn..."  It was *great*.

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 17:46:31 1993
From: megatest!pancake!preiter@uu2.psi.com (Pete Reiter)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 93 16:35:23 PDT
Subject: Let Freedom Rave

Well, first of all, it was impressive to see all the people who jumped into the
fray to put out the fire. But before we start patting ourselves on the back
(when I say we, I refer to the rave community as a whole)... you should know
that it was some idiot with a bottle rocket that set off the blaze in the
first place. If Let Freedom Rave hadn't happened that ugly black scar would not
be on that hill right now.

However, it's good to know that the scene takes care of itself and people
tend to take care of the problems they create.

Aside from all that I had a great time. All of the DJs were rippin' it up.
The vibe wasn't super-killer, but it definitely had a presence. And the
facilities were more than adequate. On top of all that, the night was
incredibly beautiful. The weather couldn't have been better (except for the
wind) and the moon was gorgeous.


						Pete

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Tue Jun 15 20:02:47 1993
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu>
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From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9306151416.AA17881@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: what's all the fu
Sender: ftc@netcom.com


Brian ponders:
> Am I treating this too much like a
> science and not like an art?

No.  Especially since it can be argued that Science *is* a form of Art.

-l-


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Tue Jun 15 20:09:24 1993
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu>
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From: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
Message-Id: <9306160211.AA27597@netcom4.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: what's all the fuss about
To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 19:11:12 PDT
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9306151416.AA17881@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>; from "Lee Fogel" at Jun 15, 93 7:16 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> Brian ponders:
> > Am I treating this too much like a
> > science and not like an art?
> 
> No.  Especially since it can be argued that Science *is* a form of Art.
> 
> -l-

Well if you think aobut it, art can be a science, and science can be an art

art = science as in the chemistry of paint, the physics of sculpting, 
	the thermodynamics of jello diving....

Science = art as in.. well go look thru a microscope :) youll get the idea.

So in the omniverse around us, science and qart coexist, its just these silly human beings that seem to think that they are 2 completely seperate things. Kinda strage, really whan you think aobut it :)

		- Delchi

PS: Sea Of Sin.. thanks for the offer of the lift to the FMR, sorry we missed
	each other. Next time perhaps ?



From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Tue Jun 15 21:03:01 1993
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu>
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To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: leaving for the summer

unsubscribe


Please unsubscribe me from the list for now and
everyone have a spontanofunkic summer.

stigs@cats.ucsc.edu

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Tue Jun 15 21:42:38 1993
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 20:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Whitsitt Goodson <whitsitt@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: YSH
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Anybody from B-town heading over to YSH this thursday?  I want to go, but
hate the idea of riding BART.  If anyone could hook me with a ride, give a
call to 549-6240.
Last summer, it seemed like every punk rocker from the east coast crashed
at my co-op.  If east coast ravers are into low-class living (couches,
roof-top, or dirty floor sleeping), we have space.  I keep telling my
housemates that ravers are taking over the world (we get more every
semester), so it would be really cool to have a bunch stay here, just ot
make all the non-house music folks even more paranoid :)
If people want copies of the Mother Earth Sound System zine, I have some
left, which I will take with me to YSH on thursday.

peace to your mind in the summertime,
whitsitt


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 08:19:49 1993
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From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
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Subject: It's One Of Those Special Days....
Sender: Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 12:10:46 GMT
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Happy Summer Solstice - June 21st 1993

Vibies.....

Miles

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 10:01:06 1993
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu>
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Tips this weekend for socal raver...
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 09:07:32 -0700
From: athomas@orion.oac.uci.edu


I'll be up in SF from Thursday through Sunday.  Any recomendations,
tips, etc. for this weekend would be greatly appreciated.  A friend
mentioned something about an ambient (swimming) pool party, has 
anybody heard about this?

Thanks,

Andy

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 10:44:05 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 09:32:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Peter S. Morris" <ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>
Sender: "Peter S. Morris" <ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>
Reply-To: "Peter S. Morris" <ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: La Laa Paloozer
To: SFRaves List <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Cc: psmorris@ucdavis.edu
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Hey, !!
Just wondering if any of you are gonna attend this festive affair??
I am .. tomorrow 
If any one wants to meet up and groove to the tunes lets set up a place
and time where we can meet!

Enjoy!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter S. Morris                                          
Division of Environmental Studies                       
UC Davis                                       Internet:psmorris@ucdavis.edu

============================================================================







From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 11:21:29 1993
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From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: "Peter S. Morris"'s message of Mon, 21 Jun 1993 09:32:38 -0700 (PDT) <Pine.3.05.9306210952.A3927-a100000@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: La Laa Paloozer
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com


I'll be there tomorrow... and I'll probably be trying to sell C2 tapes
in the parking lot... no idea where I'll be, but I'll be showing up
early and trying to set up somewhere near the box office but towards
101 (in the parking lot with the bungee crane).  Listen for the music
and drop by!

Bob

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 12:30:31 1993
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From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Message-Id: <9306211823.AA00545@slack>
Subject: Solstice review
To: solstice@slack.sim.es.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SF Raves)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 12:23:04 -0600 (MDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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After being trimmed down and moved more than a few times, Solstice finally
came off in a spectacular way on the 18th and 19th of June.

Getting the generator was the biggest problem.  I reserved a 10KW 30 amp
generator a week in advance, and called back the day I needed to pick it up to
verify it was there.  Surprise, surprise, when I arrived, they didn't have the
generator!  After seeing the whole staff run around in a Keystone-like frenzy,
they finally told me they could get one from another yard, but I had to wait
an hour or so.  I went and picked up the sound instead.  Upon returning, I had
to wait another half hour whilst biting my nails over the whole weekend, but
it finally arrived.

Wow, what a generator.  If I could fall in love with a machine, it would be my
Denon first, then this generator.  15KW and quieter than a scooter.  I was
amazed, plus it was only $45 a day to boot.  That combined with our discounted
rate at the sound shop brought our total cost to $200 for the weekend.

I wanted to start both nights at sunset, but getting everyone going was
difficult.  Brian Behlendorf, Eric Pederson, and his friend Rich arrived in
town later in the evening and we hung around casually for a while before
heading up the mountain.  We eventually arrived there at around 10:30.  It was
wonderful having Brian around since he knows what is up with setting up the
sound.  We were able to get going within minutes.  The FM broadcast was
working well, but wasn't going very far.  People said that they could pick it
up a mile away, but it was competing against another station.  I forgot that
Park City had a station on the same frequency, and from up there it could be
picked up.  We were short a cable for the DAT, so we used the radio as a
substitute.  I use a boombox as a monitor, so we just tuned it in and ran the
DAT from the outputs.

Over 200 people showed up over the course of the night.  Two other local DJs
who were supposed to play weren't feeling up to it at that point, so it was
just down to Eric and myself.  However, Eric was feeling very bedraggled from
the drive and lack of sleep, so he spun for about an hour and a half.  Things
were cool with me until the "hardcore" remainder was left over.  I gave them a
really good hardcore set at about 4:00, with some very vicious acid.  Once I
pulled out though, I kept getting more requests for hardcore.  I was getting
tired and I didn't feel like it at all, so I threw on the junkiest stuff I
had.  They just kept shaking and twitching in front of the speakers.  Finally
the sun started to come up and left me with an excuse to go ambient.  We
stopped at 5:30 and pulled off the mountain at about 6:00.  The first night
had gone well, but would people make the 80 mile trek to the second night?

John called me and suggested that I get my dad's motorhome to relax in while
we were out there.  In order to do this, I needed to get someone to drive a
car back from my father's house.  Brian was the only one around, but
unfortunately, his San Francisco driving abilities had not including manual
transmissions.  So Brian drove the motorhome back, verrrry carefully.  Upon
returning, Bryce Ryan called from the airport and told us he was in town.
He'd cashed in on his frequent flyer mileage to hop out for the weekend.  He'd
also brought a stack of his own music as well.  In the afternoon, Brian, Eric,
and Bryce dabbled with my equipment (on the floor of my house) while we waited
to get going.  At about 8:00 we left for the desert, but made the mistake of
going to the grocery store first.  Eric bought enough food for a small army
and we finally headed out for the desert at 8:30.

I finally arrived out there at 10:15.  Travelling via motorhome had taken
longer than I had expected.  We drove down to the site that I had picked a
week earlier and found a group camped nearby.  I went over and talked to them
about what was going to happen.

"Hi, we're going to set up a dance nearby, do you think that will bother you?"

"Do you need a generator to do that?"

"Yes"

"Dig a hole for it, that will make it quieter"

"Well, the generator is on a trailer, and that really isn't a problem.  The
music will be quite audible over here."

"How late do you plan on going?  4:00?"

"No, all night.  I think the main problem will be the amount of people"

"How many do you expect?"

"Well, last night in another spot we had about 200 people."

"This isn't one of those raves is it?"

I laughed and said it was.  A guy queried me about whether or not there would
be LSD there, and he seemed rather intrigued about it.  I said there probably
would be, but it wasn't anything to worry about.  He was almost ready to agree
when his wife piped up and said, "GO! GO FAR AWAY."  Hurmmmm..

So I went scouting for another location.  Eventually we went back to the
entrance, which was better anyway, since it was much easier to find than spots
a mile in.  The terrain was a bit rougher, but there was a very nice flat spot
that worked out very well.  Only about 60 people showed up.  The difference
from the previous night was that everyone stayed until morning.  I think a lot
of people were taken aback by the fact that we were encouraging them to camp
out.

Bryce kicked off the evening with some fun happy house with a lot of groovin'
vocals.  Then a local girl, Daz-E spun one of the best sets I've heard her
do.  She was followed by Shaun, an old friend here, who did a terrific set,
but things started drying up as far as dancing went near the end.  People were
crowding around a nearby campfire for warmth.  John and I put two and two
together and built a campfire over near the dance area.  Immediately people
flocked to it.  IT WAS SO GREAT.  I just grinned and grinned as the entire
crowd went crazy around the flames.  Shaun went nuts and put on some killer
tracks before Eric hit the decks.  Eric kicked off some tribal that felt
fantastic in the open air.  His set grooved hard and ended with a strangely
appropriate track for the desert area, Eon's "Spice".  Finally, around 4:30, I
went on.  The sky was getting gradually lighter and I was able to put on
everything from Julian Cope to Marco Zaffarano to an appreciative crowd.  It
was also nice being able to mix in some of KLF's "Chill Out" with real trains
shooting by on a track one hundred yards away.  I stopped at 6:30, right after
the sun had crested over the horizon.

The most incredible aspect of the whole weekend was the weather.  Although the
report called for clearing skies, I didn't believe it.  I would look out of
the office windows on Friday and see storm clouds on the horizon, but
amazingly enough, it did clear.  In both locations the sky was stunning, but
especially in the desert location.  I haven't seen the milky way like that in
years and you could literally watch the sky for a few minutes and see half a
dozen shooting stars.  Once it was all over, after we returned home on Sunday
afternoon, the clouds returned in force.  It was almost like a window to
heaven had been opened just for us.

John was skeptical of the success of Solstice before the weekend.  He was
almost certain that we'd be busted in some form or another, but the Taste
magic worked once again.  By Sunday morning, he was slobbering to do another
event in the desert.  On top of that, through the sales of glow toys and
donations, we covered our costs.  When we returned the generator on Monday
morning, we were only charged $65, and only two and a half gallons of fuel had
been used!  We're already planning another one for later this summer, and will
probably give plenty of advance warning on the location, so people will be
prepared to camp.  One thing that will definitely not happen again is two
nights in a row.  I was absolutely wasted by Sunday afternoon.  It also
probably discouraged a lot of people from attending the second night.

Thanks to Brian, Eric, Rich, Bryce, and Spiral Death Trap and his friends for
making the trek.  Sorry I didn't get to talk to you more SDT, I didn't realize
it was you until Sunday morning.  Doing another outdoor has freshened my hope
for doing these promotions.  There is definitely a purer element that will
travel a hundred miles or more to dance.  I'll probably do one more warehouse
to clean up the Meat Beat Manifesto debt, but after that, I'm probably going
to stick to doing infrequent open air events.  I hope that everyone who was
unable to make it this year will make it out next year, you really missed an
incredible time.

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 12:45:11 1993
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 12:40:16 -0700
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 11:29:49 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: athomas@orion.oac.uci.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Tips this weekend for socal raver...

The pool party you mentioned, called "Glug Glug", is on Sunday afternoons.
The first one was this weekend, at the Oasis in SF.  Did anyone go?  How
was it?  Scott Hardkiss was real excited about it Thursday night when I
saw him at YSH.  How were the other parties this weekend, too?  [hint: we
need more reviews of weekends on sfraves :)]

Solstice was GREAT, I'll reply to Pete's post about the weekend very soon...

        Brian

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 13:25:00 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 12:23:03 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: UFO
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com


After calling the (415) Total Devotion number a few times and never
getting directions, I headed to UFO, which was at the One Step.  I had
been there the previous week for Vortex, and I was curious to see what
another promoter would do... also, I wanted to try to sell some more
C2 tapes.

The promoter was nice and let me set up a table near the entrance,
which was cool.

They only had the big main room, the room which was chill for Vortex,
and not the back room, where the main floor was for Vortex.

Unfortunately, there was a band playing in the back room until around
midnight, and they were loud enough that they were drowning out the
PA.  This really bothered a good number of the early-birds, many of
which left.

Once the band quit, things got better, but the crowd never jelled.
I'd say the maximum was 20-30 people dancing, with a good number of
people sitting around and watching.  Carlos picked things up at 1:30
with a great set.  The visuals were OK, nothing spectacular.  (Vortex
visuals were an order of magnitude better...)

I left at 3:15 when the next DJ came on and proceeded to crank the PA
to the point of distortion and pain.

Not a bad effort, but don't EVER rent out one room at the One Step if
there's going to be another event in the other room, there's no noise
isolation.

Interesting note: the security was very mellow, and the One Step
people there were friendly.  Maybe they're starting to realize that if
they make OSB a good place to throw an event, there'll be more events
there.

Bob


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 14:26:21 1993
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu>
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From: rsammuli@ceti.csustan.edu (Robert Sammuli)
Message-Id: <9306212012.AA27472@ceti.csustan.edu>
To: AndyK@apricot.co.uk, sfraves-request@soda.berkeley.edu,
        sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re:  Unsubscribe

Please subscribe hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu
thank you

From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jun 21 15:22:45 1993
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421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
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Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown

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	id AA02860; Mon, 21 Jun 1993 14:08:49 -0700
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea of Sin)
Message-Id: <9306212108.AA02860@noc.usfca.edu>
Subject: TO ALL MUSICIANS! (fwd)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Discoravers),
        dcraves@american.edu (Capitol Hill Ravers),
        mw-raves@engin.umich.edu (mwraves ),
        nw-raves@wimsey.bc.ca (Twin Peaks Ravers),
        dcraves@american.edu (Capitol Hill Ravers),
        seraves@american.edu (seraves)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 14:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
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Forwarded message:
>From t808@phantom.com Mon Jun 21 13:15:16 1993
To: +neraves@phantom.com
Subject: TO ALL MUSICIANS!
From: t808@mindvox.phantom.com (taylor deupree)
Comments: taylor808 / havoc music
Message-Id: <93Fi6B3w165w@mindvox.phantom.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 16:00:19 EDT
Organization: [Phantom Access] / the MindVox system
X-Status: 



i am most likely putting out another cd this summer  called "galaxies 2:
(and then some cool subtitle.. perhaps "technospiritual ambience").

what i'm writing about is that i would like to send this open invitation
to you all to participate in the music.

if you are interested in being on the cd send me tracks for 
consideration.
the tracks must be ambient/housey/acid/trance....that is the direction of 
the ENTIE cd.

we are also going to put out a vinyl EP of this... probably 4 songs frm 
the cd will appear on the vinyl.  if you are interested in being on the 
vinyl, sd us REMIXES of your songs... because the vinyl will consist of 
REMIXES of songs from the cd.  only 4 songs will be chosen.

the label's address:

havoc music
po box 1327
ny, ny  10113-1327

work hard and make a KILLER track or two.  deadline is sometime around
august...

also, can someone forward this message to dc-raves?  i don't know that 
address..and perhaps sf-raves too...

more notes:

- the track can be of any length
- cassettes are fine for demo purposes, WELL PRODUCED dat's are required 
if we take your song..


thanks!

get to work :)

peace

>>taylor.808



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [ s p i r i t u a l  t e c h n o l o g y ] <<----
                                                                     ^
                                                                     ^
- - - - - - - > hack life )                             ( 8 0 8 ) >>>>


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 14:42:54 1993
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 14:37:24 -0700
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550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output

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From: "T e c h n oH e a d" <ol@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
Message-Id: <9306212023.AA20128@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
Subject: TO ALL MUSICIANS! (fwd)
To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu (San Francisco Raves)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 16:23:21 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Forwarded message:
>From t808@phantom.com Mon Jun 21 16:13 EDT 1993
To: +neraves@phantom.com
Subject: TO ALL MUSICIANS!
From: t808@mindvox.phantom.com (taylor deupree)
Comments: taylor808 / havoc music
Message-Id: <93Fi6B3w165w@mindvox.phantom.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 16:00:19 EDT
Organization: [Phantom Access] / the MindVox system



i am most likely putting out another cd this summer  called "galaxies 2:
(and then some cool subtitle.. perhaps "technospiritual ambience").

what i'm writing about is that i would like to send this open invitation
to you all to participate in the music.

if you are interested in being on the cd send me tracks for 
consideration.
the tracks must be ambient/housey/acid/trance....that is the direction of 
the ENTIE cd.

we are also going to put out a vinyl EP of this... probably 4 songs frm 
the cd will appear on the vinyl.  if you are interested in being on the 
vinyl, sd us REMIXES of your songs... because the vinyl will consist of 
REMIXES of songs from the cd.  only 4 songs will be chosen.

the label's address:

havoc music
po box 1327
ny, ny  10113-1327

work hard and make a KILLER track or two.  deadline is sometime around
august...

also, can someone forward this message to dc-raves?  i don't know that 
address..and perhaps sf-raves too...

more notes:

- the track can be of any length
- cassettes are fine for demo purposes, WELL PRODUCED dat's are required 
if we take your song..


thanks!

get to work :)

peace

>>taylor.808



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [ s p i r i t u a l  t e c h n o l o g y ] <<----
                                                                     ^
                                                                     ^
- - - - - - - > hack life )                             ( 8 0 8 ) >>>>


-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
     T           C           N           H           A
           E           H           O           E           D
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
           Y O U R  M I N D  I S  T H E  O N LY  L I M I T

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 21 14:56:41 1993
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550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output

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From: raff@oas.olivetti.com (Raffaele Sena)
Message-Id: <9306212108.AA00976@foggia.oas.olivetti.com>
Subject: Re: Tips this weekend for socal raver...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9306211829.AA07936@soda.berkeley.edu> from "Brian Behlendorf" at Jun 21, 93 11:29:49 am
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> 
> The pool party you mentioned, called "Glug Glug", is on Sunday afternoons.
> The first one was this weekend, at the Oasis in SF.  Did anyone go?  How
> was it?  Scott Hardkiss was real excited about it Thursday night when I
> saw him at YSH.  How were the other parties this weekend, too?  [hint: we
> need more reviews of weekends on sfraves :)]
> 
	Yesterday "Glug Glug" was canceled because problems on the pool :-(

	Let see next week...

Ciao,
	Raffaele


From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jun 21 15:18:53 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 14:51:13 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
421 deans-row.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for think2.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
421 eng.sun.com: Host Sun.COM is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
421 corp.sun.com: Host Sun.COM is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
421 ios.convergent.com: Host sun.com is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
451 net hang reading from bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu: Connection timed out during greeting wait with bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu
451 net hang reading from bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu: Connection timed out during greeting wait with bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown
451 net hang reading from ames.arc.nasa.gov: Connection timed out during greeting wait with ames.arc.nasa.gov

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 13:52:21 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9306212052.AA19504@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Wickend Report


Thursday:  Your Sister's House, as has already been reported, was
a fun and friendly scene, with that special YSH family spirit.  Shoban
continues to impress me with her song selection & general DJing
capabilities.  I had once feared that female DJs would lean towards the 
lower energy levels of Deep House or the more emotionally overbearing Diva
stuff.  Wrong: Another sexist stereotype has been obliterated from my 
programming.  Most of the stuff played while I was there was a great
mix of trance, some breakbeat, interesting mixes of ethnic and lot's
of fresh high energy stuff that I've never heard before.  Yum.  I wish
I could go to all YSH parties, but I'm starting to run out of excuses
for coming in late, or leaving work early every fryday.

Friday: Recharged my Raveready Batteries for...

Saturday: WICKED - The Stone was supposed to let us in at 1, but it took
until about 2 before early R&R crowd cleared out.  I guess that Morticia,
the band that played, was so great that they were called back for an hour's
worth of encores.  Sorry I missed them - Not.  The same thing happened when
Channeling was here last month - the lesson has been learned.

I was informed at the door that I wasn't allowed to bring my water inside.
"Why not?"  "Because it isn't allowed."  OK, sure, no problem.  Bouncer
turns toward the next in line and I proceed to enter with my water: A 
successful nonviolent act of civil disobedience.  But I had little
time to bask in the glory of this major victory against the forces of 
oppression as Jeno hit the tables full blast to kickoff an evening of 
nonstop  high intensity music.  Markie followed with a spirited and  trancey 
set   that slacked off a little near the end, setting up Garth who took the
remaining faithful into the stratosphere.  It turned out to be a great 
night; 5 hours of nonstop dancing. The crowd was mixed, not as energetic as 
they should of been, but no attitudes either.   I lot of Wicked regulars 
were not there and  the only SFRavers I saw were Chris Hart and Fred Huette.  
It never got too crowded or hot, and I had a much better time than at the
Sweat Factory  at the last Wicked. I guess the Stone doesn't have the 
greatest  reputation, but I usually have a pretty good time every time I go 
there. 

Sunday: Boogie Buffet was fun as usual.  Nice to see Bob Jesse and Ravi,
but where was everyone else this weekend?  I can't believe everyone went
to Devotion out in...wherever the hell it was. 

Up next: Xochipilli!  This should be a magical event for those who seek to 
celebrate the spiritual side of molecular biology.  

- leg of eel

From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jun 21 18:20:18 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 17:32:39 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 deans-row.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for think2.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
Connected to bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu:
>>> RCPT To:<ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>
<<< 550 <ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>... User unknown
550 ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu... User unknown
Connected to bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu:
>>> RCPT To:<ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu>
<<< 550 <ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu>... User unknown
550 ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu... User unknown
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown

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	id AA02655; Mon, 21 Jun 93 17:22:07 -0700
Message-Id: <9306220022.AA02655@leland.Stanford.EDU>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Mission Rock
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 17:22:06 -0700
From: doom@leland.Stanford.EDU


Well, other obligations have been cutting into my raving
time of late, but this Friday I went up to the city to catch
"The Gits" (one of the vanishingly few *good* punk bands) at
the _Bottom of the Hill_, but I didn't hang there long
because their security was a little too hardcore on checking
IDs to let my 18 year old friend in.

Went over to Mission Rock, for the first time (at last) and
found that the place lived up to it's reviews... I don't
know why, but for a long time I expected the place would be
kind of grungy or something, but it's actually a pretty nice
environment, dancing out doors on the the deck by the bay.
They need to learn the art of vibration insulation though.
I'd recommend piling the DJs table with cinder blocks and
putting pillows under the turntables.

Gavin was spinning while I was there (with Garth providing
moral support, dancing behind the tables).  I really liked
some of the stuff he played... the acid jazz was good, the
funkier stuff was okay (though he took it too far over to
disco for my tastes a few times) but what I really don't
understand was his oldies revivals.  He played "White Lines"
and David Bowie's "Golden Years" (screwed up the exit from
Golden Years, too) for an audience old enough to have been
bored by them long ago.  Nostalgia is evil.  Resist.  


From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jun 21 18:56:44 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 18:12:39 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 deans-row.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for think2.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
451 net hang reading from uu.psi.com: Connection timed out during greeting wait with uu.psi.com
421 husc.harvard.edu: Host husc.harvard.edu is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
Connected to bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu:
>>> RCPT To:<ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>
<<< 550 <ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>... User unknown
550 ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu... User unknown
Connected to bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu:
>>> RCPT To:<ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu>
<<< 550 <ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu>... User unknown
550 ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu... User unknown
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 18:10:12 -0700
From: saeedi@shell.portal.com (Steven J Saeedi)
Message-Id: <9306220110.AA00984@jobe.shell.portal.com>
To: raff@oas.olivetti.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Tips this weekend for socal raver...

> From: raff@oas.olivetti.com (Raffaele Sena)
> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
> > 
> > The pool party you mentioned, called "Glug Glug", is on Sunday afternoons.
> > The first one was this weekend, at the Oasis in SF.  Did anyone go?  How
> > was it?  Scott Hardkiss was real excited about it Thursday night when I
> > saw him at YSH.  How were the other parties this weekend, too?  [hint: we
> > need more reviews of weekends on sfraves :)]
> > 
> 	Yesterday "Glug Glug" was canceled because problems on the pool :-(

Problems with the pool??  I'll say...
I went to Splash Saturday morning and they had the pool open.  Someone 
said the pool was clean the previous week, but Saturday the pool looked
like it had been used as a toilet (That's just being nice.  I could get
worst in describing it).

Music, as usual, was good.

- Steve.
> 
> 	Let see next week...
> 
> Ciao,
> 	Raffaele
> 
> 

From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jun 21 19:30:54 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 18:52:39 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 deans-row.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for think2.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
Connected to bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu:
>>> RCPT To:<ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>
<<< 550 <ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>... User unknown
550 ez003475@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu... User unknown
Connected to bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu:
>>> RCPT To:<ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu>
<<< 550 <ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu>... User unknown
550 ez017733@othello.ucdavis.edu... User unknown
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 18:47 PDT
From: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
Subject: Purely Devoted
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <ECF6A74BC0008192@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
X-Envelope-To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
X-Vms-To: IN%"sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU"

My weekend as an "alumnus" raver was great.

We went (We=Zak,Mark and I) drove out almost 100 miles to go near Modesto
to this place....very far....very very very far..but worth it!!

Outside space was great, the energy was wierd but good for the most part,
and despite the 5 numbers, only about 300 people showed up.  Good size.
Great space...campgrounds with waaay too much weedy stuff on the ground,
but it was near a river that was really pretty at dawn....GREAT lasers
(this laser was at groove kitchen a while back) bouncing off of mirrors
into space, on trees, etc....fantastic.  
lame parts: $2 water, people selling BEER (!!!!!), dusty messed up road
to get to the dancing area, hell on a car, etc..
but the music was just fantastic!  Harry Who was great.  I really liked Joe
Harp..I think John williams was the one who destroyed me and plenty others.
The music was pretty fantastic, I must say....some of the mixing was 
lame, but the selections went great.  It was nice to see the milky way 
while dancing. didn't see any sfravers there, so we tried to be good
representatives :) ... we left at 6:15 or so, just because we knew the
drive would be hectic.  And it was.

Anyway, not as Unbelieveably incredible as the last devotion, but a fine
fine time...


gotta go..

m

From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jun 21 23:16:56 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 22:32:39 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 deans-row.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for think2.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
451 net hang reading from uu.psi.com: Connection timed out during greeting wait with uu.psi.com
421 microsoft.com: Connection refused by netmail.microsoft.com, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
451 net hang reading from CSUSAC.ECS.CSUS.EDU: Connection timed out during greeting wait with CSUSAC.ECS.CSUS.EDU
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 22:02:55 PDT
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap)
Message-Id: <9306220502.AA14627@curly.agames.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: More ramblings about Solstice


	The locations (especially Knolls) were SO beautiful.  I was
lying down on the hillside looking up and could swear that the sky
was a dome that came down about 40 feet back of me in the woods.  We
tried to remember our astronomy but all I could pick out were the
Dippers, Polaris, Venus, and Mars, and of course the Milky Way.  Most
people who grow up in the city probably never even notice it.  Whoo.

	Spend any time at all away from "civilization" (read: pavement)
and nature-based religions suddenly make much more sense.  You are no
longer even the short-term master of your environment: death is only 
a few days without water or a short fall down a fractured sandstone
face away.  The earth deserves our respect, for it will respond in kind.
We pour poison into the air; the ozone layer thins.  We pour poison into
the land; it comes back in the food we eat.

Anyway, I spent the day with friends at Knolls: we climbed some nasty
rock faces, boggled at the view, and slept most of the afternoon to
recover from the first night on the mountain.  It would have been worth
it even had no one else shown up, which seemed possible since the first
people didn't arrive until dusk and it was almost completely dark by
the time the sound arrived.  We debated following it out but they
encountered people back in the knolls and had to come right back
near our campsite.  Bummer >^)  The music cranked up and we dug out our
rave toys, bought that day at Radio Shack: some assorted LEDs and watch
batteries.  Clip 'em on and you can glow or blink all night, and several
more nights besides, unlike glowsticks.

Sadly, my 303 decided to make nasty background noises so I couldn't mix
any live acied (grrr) -- I could play anything I wanted so long as I didn't
mind an untunable octave wibbling in time to the panel lights on top of
it.  Gave me more time to dance, sleep, and stare at the sky, though.

Oh yeah, my friend and his friend were at their first rave ever.  Both
are on their tours of of post-Naval Academy duty, and both admitted to
having a beautiful time.  The meme spreads...

Apologies to the SFR crew and Pete for not introducing myself earlier, but
I hadn't seen my (best) friend (from high school) for over a year.  
Locations like that also make me want to be alone a good part of the time.
Sometimes places like that get me into a head space where I really can't
talk to people at all and I have to dance around or run off by myself
until I feel ready to come back.

I'd like to thank everyone who was there for being there.

Hint to Pete: If you want to clear everyone out just play more continuous
chipmunk breakbeat until everyone falls twitching in a heap from 909
withdrawal.

"Whoa!  Stop."
"Only half an hour?  Don't you like my "Funky Drummer" samples?"
"Love the taste...but the bpm's make me nervous."

// g


From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jun 21 23:56:58 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 23:12:40 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 deans-row.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for think2.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
451 net hang reading from uu.psi.com: Connection timed out during greeting wait with uu.psi.com
421 microsoft.com: Connection refused by netmail.microsoft.com, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
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	id AA12912; Mon, 21 Jun 93 22:50:56 -0700
	for sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 22:50:56 -0700
From: John Turpin <turpin@apple.com>
Message-Id: <9306220550.AA12912@apple.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Truly Devoted Weekend


My Truly Devoted Weekend:
 
I decided to give Devotion a try Saturday night. I went to a Sharon party last
year (at the Concourse) and really enjoyed myself there. Yes this one was in BFE
but I did not mind the drive as I have just moved to CA and actually enjoyed the
drive through the country side.
 
The map point was at Orchard Truck Stop/Restaraunt off Hwy 132 heading towards
Modesto. It was not hard to find, as practically every car on the hwy was turning
in there. As expected, everthing from here on out was very well organized. We
were greeted by some friendly workers who asked us to turn off our lights, and
get into one of the 3 car lines. Theses were very small lines when we arrived
(1:30am)about 3 cars were ahead of us. We payed our hard earned $20/person and
wereinstructed to go down the Hwy 1.5 miles to some campground on the right hand
sideof the road. This was just a matter of following the cars in front of us.
 
I started getting a little excited when I saw the neon glow of a laser off in the
distance as we were pulling into the campground. We were directed to a parking
place in a field by an alien space craft with lots of blinking lights. (not
really).
 
The first thing I noticed after getting out of the car and walking up towards the
main attraction, was the cloud of dust surrounding the entire area. Oh well, who
ever said you had to be clean at a rave?
 
The slightly wooded parking area opened up into a gigantic field of some kind
clumpy grass stuff where there were two trucks loaded with speakers and amps
parked about 100ft apart. The dj booth was inbetween the trucks. Behind the dj
table was all of the expected Sharon booths, selling raveclothes/hats/candy/smart
drinks/etc.. Psychadelic images were being projected into a sheet hung up behind
the dj table.
 
 
There was the typical Sharon laser show. It was being projected away from the
main dance area against a big projection screen, with mirrors above the screen
to reflect the laser back over the crowd. Actually, I think it would have been
better to have projected it out over the crowd, and let the trees off in the
distance act as the projection screen. They were very limited to what they could
do out over the crowd.
 
I easily got into the vibe. There were many people dancing.  The dj's were playing
very powerfull sets, mostly techno-ish fast stuff. The sound system was
very wellequalized for an outdoor event, producing clear crisp highs and ground
moving lows. There were also many people (most seemed to be mentally enhanced)
hanging out around the perimeter of the dance area enjoying a mixture of
outdoor peace and audio/visual overloads (and their nitrous).
 
And then, as if informed  by the galaxy gods themselves, I looked up. WOW! There
it was streaking across the dark summer sky right out of my childhood astronomy
book. The Milkyway. This was inspiring enough to stop my feet and grab a seat.
 
I did venture along the surrounding river over to the ambient/chill-out area.
They had the typical psychadelic projection setup and a laser as well. They were
not playing any music when I was there so I ventured back to the main area.
 
Another dj/dance area started up during the night off to the side. They were
spinning some pretty hard tunes, but not a lot of people hangin around.
 
Taking a quick look through my AutoStereotypic glasses I saw a few scaterred
drunken hillbilly undesirables, but everyone seemed to be obeying the peace
laws.
 
It had been really dark outside all night, and was kinda hard to see/meet
people. As the sun started to rise, the vibe really picked up. Bodies that had
been dark shadows squirmishing around all night, started materializing into real
people. The second wind came along and carried us to our peak. It was a powerfull
movement.
 
And then we left...
 
Conclusions:
 
 * This was my first big outdoor experience ( 300 < # < 500). There is a freedom
   vibe you get outdoors that you don't quite get inside. 
 
 * I think I made the right decision on Saturday. Much better scene than OSB.
   (Never been to a Wicked event, so hard to compare.)
 
 * Got alot of dirt up my nose, but I have put worse stuff in my body before.
 
 * Pretty good all around, but still room for improvement...
 
-jt
 
 

From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 22 13:15:52 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
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Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
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From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Message-Id: <9306220815.ZM13094@nmtvs313>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 08:15:09 -0700
In-Reply-To: ames!leland.stanford.edu!doom
        "Mission Rock" (Jun 21,  5:22pm)
References: <9306220022.AA02655@leland.Stanford.EDU>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 02apr93)
To: ames!leland.stanford.edu!doom, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Mission Rock

Gavin was spinning while I was there (with Garth providing
moral support, dancing behind the tables).
---------------------------------------------------------------
 he was doing that at wicked also, during the first (Jeno?)  DJ.



  I really liked
some of the stuff he played... the acid jazz was good, the
funkier stuff was okay (though he took it too far over to
disco for my tastes a few times)
----------------------------------------
This isn't possible for me, being a discophile from way back... while
 some stuff is definitely over played, there is a fine line between
 playing just the right jam from the past and playing a "sucker's
 favorite" like Super Freak or Brick House.


 but what I really don't
understand was his oldies revivals.  He played "White Lines"
and David Bowie's "Golden Years" 
-----------------
i dunno, i *love* old school rap jams...catch the beat, "you made me
scream, but i made you shout!", i see your point, white lines is headed
toward an S'sF rating, but still, those are funky tracks...if it was
put across right, i probably would have dug it.  


(screwed up the exit from
Golden Years, too) for an audience old enough to have been
bored by them long ago.  Nostalgia is evil.  Resist.
-----------------
i *was* bored by them, but haven't heard that old bowie for too many
years to publicly admit....



"say ho - tel, mo - tel, hol - i - day inn...

-=Jack=-

  "now you're lookin' back...
   all dogs must chase the cat"

From white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu Thu Jul  1 17:14:35 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 20:18:06 -0400
Subject: The role of the State is VIOLENT

>From 1.1::reillys Thu Jul  1 13:06:03 1993
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 12:18:07 -0400
From: 1.1::reillys (SHARON REILLY, CTR. FOR SOCIAL RESEARCH, X.7392)
To: SLEEPY::white
Subject: RE: POV on Iraq, from a San Francisco raver
Status: RO

That was a great response.  I've been getting so much info. from you these
days that I can't keep up.  To answer your first question, "What is
terrorism?" there are two good books written on this very topic:
Edward S. Herman, _The_Real_Terror_Network
and
Edward S. Herman & Gerry O'Sullivan, _The_"Terrorism"_Industry_.

In response to the others, I am reminded of several things:

Max Weber wrote that the role of the state is by definition violent, for
the state has a monopoly on the use of force, regardless of who is in
control of a state during a particular historical moment.

Does violence really solve anything?  All I can ask is what choice do
those being victimized have?  To turn the other cheek?  I don't think so!
As Nelson Mandela recently put it "We want peace...but we are by no means
pacifists."  Where would Cuba be were it not for Che Guevera?  Where would
the MPLA be were it not for Cuban soldiers coming to its defense from
the U.S.-sponsored gangsters, UNITA?  The concept of fighting for peace is
, I think, a legitimate one under the present historical circumstances.  
What has history taught us about those who turned the other cheek?  They
were killed.  Period.  End of story.  Perhaps it's naive to think that
peace will just happen.  It won't.  Unfortunately, it has to be taken, and
the process of taking it requires the use of force.  No, violence doesn't
"solve" anything perhaps in the long run, but what are we supposed to do
in the meantime, just sit back and get fucked by those fucking us?  Or should
we stand and defend ourselves?  And how can we defend ourselves from mighty
big guns?

Why are we bombing Bagdahd and not Capetown and Bejing?  Oh--that's easy!
Because the NED can do a more sophisticated job--representatives from our
Universities simply go over and befriend black students and faculty from
the University of Western Cape, hailing credentials along the way, and
changing the political climate itself, changing the very way people think
and perceive themselves and their relation to the world.  Smooth...and it's
much less messy.  If Plan A doesn't work though, you can be sure we'll bomb
Capetown in a last ditch effort.  The problem is, there are ALWAYS people
who are eager to rub shoulders with Harvard types--it boosts their own status
and gets them promoted.  And it gets them those critical grant monies.  Same
goes for Bejing--even CCSU is in on that action!  Why bomb when there's still
a chance left to seduce individuals eager and willing to do our dirty work
for us?  That way, everybody's happy!  But this is only one tiny aspect of
how we rule...  The CIA is always eager to train people in torture, especially
willing individuals in our host countries.  And if not the CIA, the Heritage
Foundation or a variety of Moon-based or other private foundations with no
accountability to the public are eager to step in and play a role, however
great or small.  And when you continue to learn more and more about such
history, you begin to realize that it doesn't really matter who the players
are, because an underlying system allows anyone with the right set of interests
to step in and fill slots that comprise a whole structure of slots, slots
defined and continually defended by whatever group happens to be ruling at
the time...

How many people do you kill to force a leader of a country to behave?
I don't understand the question...I thought we were killing his enemies,
the people he supposedly "leads" who in actuality never supported the man.
He was never elected, for example.  We bombed poor people who were at least
at one point willing to die to fight for freedom from oppression, because
they had nothing more to lose.  So now that we've killed a large portion of
his dispossessed surplus population, what happens next?  We actually helped
the guy out!  Were we ever trying to force someone to behave?  You couldn't
exactly call Saddam Hussein a revolutionary, a real threat, could you?  So
I don't understand the question...

As for the bit on gang violence, one thing I really like about Herman
and Chomsky aside from their age and credentials, hence the legitimacy with
ooooooooops--syntax error here.  Backtrack...  

As for the bit on gang violence, one thing I really like about Herman,
Chomsky, Agee, Zinn, Louis Wolf, and other white men who grew up in the
50s but became disillusioned at a relatively young age, is that they are
completely unapologetic about calling the real gangsters what they are,
gangsters.

On that note,         The Struggle for Peace Continues!

						- Sharon


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 03:17:08 1993
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Via: uk.ac.bristol.irix; Fri, 2 Jul 1993 10:18:48 +0100
From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <15055.9307021019@irix.bristol.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The NEW empire (fwd)
Original-Sender: Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Forwarded message:
>From Miles.Pearce@uk.ac.bristol Thu Jul  1 17:08:53 1993
Via: uk.ac.bristol.irix; Thu, 1 Jul 1993 17:04:02 +0100
From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@uk.ac.bristol>
Message-Id: <6760.9307011704@irix.bristol.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The NEW empire
Original-Sender: Miles.Pearce@uk.ac.bristol
To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 17:04:15 GMT
Cc: miles.pearce@uk.ac.bristol
In-Reply-To: <9307011427.AA03276@netcom.netcom.com>; from "John S. Lee" at Jul 1, 93 7:27 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

John,

Thanks for replying. Of course the Europeans have done some pretty disgraceful
things in history. After all it was the Spanish/British who completely
destroyed native America and most of the rest of the world, I believe the old
British Empire to have been hideous in some of its rape and pillaging of other
countries.

However, what we are discussing is todays problems, we can't rewrite history!
You cannot say that the US is best disposed to keep the peace when it
leads the forefront of military technology, produces weaponry which it
sells to the like of Saddam Hussein until he has enough to start invading
other countries starting a cycle of conflict and war. The US has a lengthy
history of meddling in other sovreign states affairs to suit it's own
ideas or business interests.

If we have to have a global police/peace force, let it be an organisation that
doesn't have self interest / gains from the results of conflicts (like the
US).
Let it be independant, not a body that sells arms and then self-righteously
harps on about global peace (its so, so, see through America!)

Has the United Nations escaped your notice? they seem to be doing the
Global peace-keeping bit, the only trouble is that the American government
has too much influence on it. Weren't the founder members Britain, US and
China? 

There has to be a better way forward than the rest of the World being run
at the end of An American big gun?

Miles


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 04:08:42 1993
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From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 11:11:40 BST
Message-Id: <4865.9307021011@wundt.harlequin.co.uk>
To: hart@ntmtv.com
Cc: jocelyn%hal.com@ames.Stanford.EDU, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: Chris Hart's message of Thu, 1 Jul 93 10:22:33 PDT <9307011722.AA17662@nmtvs313.mtvyp>
Subject: Re: slip into neutral (was rave FAQ)


  Chris> yeah, i hafta agree, dj's can make a profound impression, and
  Chris> there's not much I like more than good music (esp. played LOUD),
  Chris> but DJ as god/master/even shamen - what since I'm not a DJ, I'm
  Chris> not in tune with cosmos?  silly boys....there are many paths...

  Chris> on the other hand, i respect good DJ's, hell I'll drive *miles* to
  Chris> hear a "master" like Joe Cooley, Premier, or Ernie Munson...I just think
  Chris> it's a mistake to "worship" at the altar of an artist, it promotes
  Chris> yet another level of stratification in an already over-stratified
  Chris> world...no flames intended, & I stand open for corrections/refutations...

I quite like the priest/alter analogy.  After all, you don't worship a
priest, you worship god... the priest is just a facilitator, an agent.
At a rave, you're worshiping the music, the vibe, the people.  The DJ
is just someone with the necessary skills to put you in touch with the
music and the vibe.

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 04:23:00 1993
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From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <16339.9307021111@irix.bristol.ac.uk>
Subject: SHARKEY?
Original-Sender: Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 11:11:50 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Dear All,

I wonder if DJ Sharkey, who I've seen billed on a few SF events, is the same
Sharkey I used to know in Bristol before he re-located to the Bay. His
name would be one Jason Thrupp, brother of LA DJ Dom T ? If it is, some one
say "Yo, Jay, 'ow ya doin', bro?"

Cheeers'

Miles

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 04:40:34 1993
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From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 11:44:55 BST
Message-Id: <5479.9307021044@wundt.harlequin.co.uk>
To: brycer@netcom.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: Bryce Ryan's message of Thu, 1 Jul 93 15:17:22 PDT <9307012217.AA04456@netcom4.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Worship--Not!

  Bryce> I guess what it all boils down to for me is: I don't completely
  Bryce> agree with the "DJ is the T" -- we are each the T!  DJ's can't
  Bryce> do it without equipment and dancers; dancers can't do it without
  Bryce> DJ and equipment; eqipment can't do it by itself.


The Priesthood of All Believers!  So ravers are quakers...:)


	roy

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 07:32:32 1993
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9307021232.AA09537@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: jsl@netcom.com, sfraves@medisg.Stanford.EDU, roy@harlequin.co.uk
Subject: Re: The NEW empire



	You know the more I look at it, the more we are becoming like
	The Empire in  the Star Wars movies.

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 08:59:52 1993
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From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9307021452.AA29782@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: The NEW empire

Geoff declares:
> 	You know the more I look at it, the more we are becoming like
> 	The Empire in  the Star Wars movies.

And I suppose that makes you Yoda.  Personally, I always wanted to
be Jabba The Hut...ooouuh...having a hard time finding a rave tie-in.
I know, the Force, kinda like a luv phaser right?.  Nah, in the end
they turned it into another missle guidance system.

- leg of eel

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 10:25:12 1993
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Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 09:17:42 PDT
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Cc: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu
Subject: one for the road
Reply-To: jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com

SF-Raves' very own LEAH REICH is performing in Harold Pinter's
supremely creepy play ONE FOR THE ROAD.  I had the pleasure of seeing
the performance last night and it was really excellent.  Food for
thought, especially given the current discussion on SF-Raves...

It runs tonight (friday) and tomorrow, 8 PM at the Durham Studio
Theatre on the UC Berkeley campus.  Admission is free.  Go see it or
I'll personally come to your house, eat all your Fritos, and trash
your rec room.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 10:55:40 1993
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9307021709.AA17240@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  DJ Worship (was slip into neutral (was rave FAQ))
In-Reply-To: <9307020012.AA09807@sleepy.ctstateu.edu>
References: <9307020012.AA09807@sleepy.ctstateu.edu>

You know, the issue of the unknown DJs not being able to get a break
sounds awfully familiar: COMMERCIAL ROCK. Yes, that glorious phenomena
that rewards conformity with megadollars, and averts its eyes from
some of the brightest new talent ever seen.

Mind you, I'd not accuse Jeno, Garth, et al. of conforming. But I have
heard it happening in some of the clubs. Anesthetized house being
poorly mixed in clubs full of drinking kids, and them liking it. I
hope we don't lose any aspiring talent to this scene.

As long as we have the smaller get-togethers, though, I think things
will be okay. I first heard my favorite DJ, Buck, at a gathering with
barely 200 people. I never though the music could grab me like that :).

I think people Worship because Worship is fun. To be near to, and to
be acknowledged by Greatness, even if it's in your own mind, is a
rush. But like so many things it can get out of hand and it does have
its price.

I don't worship anyone or anything, except perhaps the great
Incredibleness of Being Here. Contemplating one's place in things is a
lesson in humility.

See you tonight!

Sean

(I'll wear my grateful dead/tie die shirt. Say hi!)

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 11:16:48 1993
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From: Arminder Behl <arminder@syma.sussex.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <21901.9307021711@syma.sussex.ac.uk>
Subject: unsubscribe
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 18:11:35 WET DST
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unsubscribe me please.


It's been fun...


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 11:38:38 1993
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Sorr, forgot to include my e-address (Do u need it ?)

unsubscribe   : ->  arminder@uk.ac.sussex.syma


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 11:59:01 1993
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From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Message-Id: <9307021735.AA22169@netcom.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The NEW empire
To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 10:35:00 PDT
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9307021452.AA29782@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>; from "Lee Fogel" at Jul 2, 93 7:52 am
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Lee Fogel sez:
> 
> Geoff declares:
> > 	You know the more I look at it, the more we are becoming like
> > 	The Empire in  the Star Wars movies.
> 
> And I suppose that makes you Yoda.  Personally, I always wanted to
> be Jabba The Hut...ooouuh...having a hard time finding a rave tie-in.
> I know, the Force, kinda like a luv phaser right?.  Nah, in the end
> they turned it into another missle guidance system.
> 


This is probably the best post on this thread yet.

Y'know, this list never ceases to amaze me in the way thrads diverge.
I mean, look at this one.  It's looking as bad as the shoe thread a
few months ago :-)

Seriously, I blame Geoff and I for starting it, but look where it's
gone...  To recap, Geoff posts a few questions to ponder about the
morality of US blowing up Iraq.  Someone else agrees, saying Bosnia
will be next.  I (against any kind of good sense) respond by saying IF
we should be involved overseas, Bosnia would have been a good place
for us to 'help'.  I also say that unfortunately violence is used by
many nations as an effective means of foreign policy, and it would be
dumb to ignore this.

The next thing you know, WHACK!  People start wielding the N-word
(Nazi).  I get private e-mail asking why I believe we should take over
the world (Which is funny, since (a) I never said anything like that
and (b) my politics run somewhere between Niels and Robert Anton
Wilson most of the time).  Someone posts a document basically
advocating U.S. manifest destiny by force at any cost.  (Had to be at
least partially humorous).  Roy gets scared :-).  

Anyway, Thanks Lee.  Great post :-)

-H-



-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
            "Unk!  Bull manganee" - Tarzan, lord of the jungle
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 12:44:00 1993
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Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 11:03:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Peter S. Morris" <ez003475@betty.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: The first Rave of SOL
To: SFRaves List <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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Grettings!
Since people, including me, are into reducing military costs, PREZ haircut
costs.... .. etc... , basically Needed money being spent Needlessly. I propose
that we spend all of this money on a massive, huge, stupendous, solar
system wide sound system(note this is also needless). For a power source, just
plug that three prong into that huge socket on the SUN! The Speakers
will be in a ring around the sun, ala _Ring World_. Just watch out for
those raving lunatics from Andomeda who will come in droves to see hear
our techno phunky beats. 
I still have yet to solve the no atmosphere problem, ooohhh and the noise
permit......................
;):^):p7;^)   
                 Pete  *is*   Raving to the Beat! 

PS Someone tell me about the full moon rave PLEASE! I'm very interested in
making it too this one!!!! The Moon was sooo very bright last night!





From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 13:01:53 1993
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From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Message-Id: <9307021825.AA14250@slack>
Subject: Re:  DJ Worship (was slip into neutral (was rave FAQ))
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SF Raves)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 12:25:04 -0600 (MDT)
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> You know, the issue of the unknown DJs not being able to get a break
> sounds awfully familiar: COMMERCIAL ROCK. Yes, that glorious phenomena
> that rewards conformity with megadollars, and averts its eyes from
> some of the brightest new talent ever seen.
> 
> Mind you, I'd not accuse Jeno, Garth, et al. of conforming. But I have
> heard it happening in some of the clubs. Anesthetized house being
> poorly mixed in clubs full of drinking kids, and them liking it. I
> hope we don't lose any aspiring talent to this scene.

Although I have yet to see my efforts to pay off in outside bookings (of
course, I haven't put a lot of effort into it... yet) I'd have to disagree
with you.  Any DJ who feels they are worth listening to can get themselves
booked for SOMETHING.  Granted, it won't be anything large, but you've got to
walk before you can run.  I originally started throwing raves not because I
thought it was a big cash cow, but because I couldn't convince any of the
clubs around here to hire me.  I made wonderful promotional packets with
double mix tapes and a computer video to go along with it, and got ZILCH.
Why?  The clubs weren't open to techno music at the time.

Back to the point, I feel that every DJ, group, or performing artist is
responsible for their own promotion in the beginning.  If they aren't going
anywhere, the only person to blame is themselves.  I just read about a bass
player in Guitar magazine who makes his living off of street corners in New
York.  How many bass players do you know who would do something like that to
support themselves?  Hmmm, maybe I should setup a sound system on a street
corner in San Francisco :-).

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 13:17:04 1993
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 11:14:36 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: A little of that ol' VISION thang.

	I'm not sure exactly what form this post is going to make, it's
gonna come out pretty stream of conscious-like, but then again everything
I've ever written here has been stream of consciousness so I'm not worried.
Just giving you warning to bear with me.  In fact, now that I've written
it and like it, I'll add a PLEASE READ THIS, NOW.

	*what* is SFRaves? 

	The idea mainly came out of frustration with my situation back in 
March 1992.  I had moved up from LA the previous fall, where I had been going
out once a week to parties down there, and when I moved up here I found
myself completely out of touch with what was going on.  I heard about one
called ToonTown, tried to go to it, but alas found out after waiting an hour
and a half in line at King St Garage that it was 21+, something I had never
run into in LA.  I had heard about parties here and there, but never could
find anyone who even liked the music enough to want to venture out and check 
them out.  I also feel in love with the Internet at this time, and I saw a
post from a certain Jon Drukman mentioning the Woopy Ball on the Manchester
mailing list, and another post from someone on rec.music.industrial about a
local party.  I figured there HAD to be SOME people on the net who knew what
was up around here, so I asked the sysadmin of my machine if I could run a
mailing list and he said sure.

	Within a week we had 80 subscribers.  The Woopy Ball was the first
weekend, and I met Jon and Mike there, and Andrea, and it began to click that
maybe there were quite a few people on this; and I began to become really
good friends with many of you, which was completely different from my college
social environment in which I found most people rather cold and self-absorbed.
We held a picnic in May, and it clicked that here we had an incredible group
of people who have this elusive thing called a "vibe"... and I began to feel
like family with you, and with the list at large, and I began to be less and
less inhibited about what I post, who I talk to, everything.  It's like
someone said, it feels like the community of SFRaves have always existed, it 
just took an entry in an aliases file to bring us all together.

	And then we threw Connection, which, until the day I get married and/or
the day I die, will rank as the most intense experience I have ever had.  It
was the feel of a community putting on a party, where everyone felt GOOD, 
where we felt like we were leapfrogging into a future full of warmth.  It was
a personally very transformational thing for me, and I think the same is true
for many others.

	It was also the beginning of my journey into the realm of becoming 
someone in the SF House Music culture.  I found a group of people I really
liked being with; I also found that our method of communication could be a
model, a basis for something bigger.  Even as we were having the time of our
lives, we began to identify things in the scene, and even in the world, that
we wanted to see changed.  SFRaves became a channeler for memes, for emotions,
for expressions on what house culture is and how San Francisco is/could be the
center of it all.  

	Now, you could say I got stars in my eyes... but I don't think it was
unjustified, and I know many people felt the same way too.  I didn't feel and
still don't feel like I was responsible for it, I was just the janitor of this
majestic House.  

	The cycles of life, though, ebb and flow, and as high as SFRaves ever
got, there were low points too, points where I wanted to send a message to
the list saying "UNSUBSCRIBE" or even consider shutting it down for a day or
two to calm some peoples' nerves.   I ultimately resisted the urge, mainly
because I believe the list could self-check itself, for every low the people
would wake up and give it a high, etc.  

	However, this cycle concerned me because I was afraid (and still am)
that this cycle could affect our ability to spread and enhance the vibe.  
I wondered if this was just an expression of insecurity, if I really could
define the "vibe" anyways.  I saw a huge procession of people subscribe and
then unsubscribe within days... my rational side said ignore this, SFRaves
shouldn't and can't please everyone, but my emotional side wanted SFRaves to
serve as a basis for uniting people and engendering that "family" feel we
all had at the beginning, towards the scene as a whole.  

	There are still lots of sicknesses in the scene, perhaps more now than 
ever, and if we could playa part, by spreading ideas and memes and opinions 
around for everyone to share, that we COULD make the scene better.   I wanted 
to include everyone on this - I was actively working to get the promoters I 
know hooked up in one way or another to share in this Great Experiment, 
because communication is the main thing I felt was missing in the scene.  
The Come/Unity meetings of promoters and DJs and concerned folk enhanced this, 
and I could see barriers of distrust being shattered.  I wanted to bring that
to the electronic realm, and them to us, because I feel the synergy would just
be incredible.

	This is still a dream right now.  There are a few promoters on the
net, some more vocal than others, there are a few DJ's, there are a LOT of 
people who go out and spread the vibe, and we are known as an entity by
many if not most people in the scene.  The calendar you see every Thursday
is going to have an "official" status, as a way for promoters to plan
their schedules out and try and avoid massive clumping of parties around
certain weekends.  In other words, we are making inroads.

	But sometimes we stumble.  I haven't been communicating this dream
as much over the net as I should have; I'd talk about it to others outside
the scene, we'd become excited about the possibilities, and then we'd come
home and read our email and get discouraged at times.  

	But there's no way I'm gonna give up that easily.  I *know* I'm
not alone in this dream, and for the most part I think SFRaves has had
that spreading-the-vibe effect for awhile.  But we have so much POTENTIAL
I want to see used.  Right now the most vital thing the scene needs is
COMMUNICATION, people need a forum for expressing their views and for
listening and understanding each other.  Right now the many-to-many nature
of email mailing lists is the single most powerful format for this.  Let's
use it right - let's take the concept of love, peace, harmony, and RESPECT
for each other back into our lives and spread it.  I'm going to work this
summer on making the SF scene the most wired scene on the planet (it already
is, I'm gonna make it even more so), and watch the fireworks fly.  Sure, 
we'll always have our ups and downs, and I still want people to talk about
ANYTHING they feel like talking about while still providing a high-quality
high signal-to-noise-ratio mailing list.  

	Remember that when you send mail to sfraves@sfraves.stanford.edu you
are sending personal mail to about 280 people.  That is an awesome power
for such a subtle action.  Please don't abuse it - use it freely, but just
think about what you're saying for a second.  If it's something more 
appropriate in personal email, take it there.  But if it's something we
all can learn from, by all means bring it forward.

	SFRaves and the fractalizing threads that have led from it are the
most significant thing that's ever happened to me.  I know most other people
aren't going to go to THAT level of enthusiasm but I want people to feel what
I'm feeling.  This "dream" I have of making SFRaves a powerfully positive 
force in the scene is nebulous, and we may never know if we've ever gotten
there, but I think as long as we keep it in mind a lot of good can come
about.  In fact, the medium has so much potential it is our RESPONSIBILITY
to see this happens.  I've seen so much over the past month and a half of
my travels that has led me to think we tend to take our scene for granted a
lot, and its almost become a victim of its own success.  Let's not let that
happen.

	See you all at Connection 3!!

	Brian


From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 13:26:41 1993
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From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9307021747.AA16353@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        uunet!ntmtv.com!ames!hal.com!jocelyn@uunet.uu.net,
        uunet!ntmtv.com!hart@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re:  slip into neutral (was rave FAQ)

For the d.j. analogy, something like "shamen" or "tour guide" would be
appropriate.  Anything that has to do with someone leading others on a
trip (spiritual, mental, physical, whatever).  That way you avoid putting
them above others, yet they are still playing an important role in leading
the others.

-Mark

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 13:27:27 1993
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From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Message-Id: <9307021745.AA09732@unislc.slc.unisys.com>
Subject: No Butts About It
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Bay Area Ravers)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 11:45:51 -0600 (MDT)
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I have to agree with Chris (aka, Jack - 'where's that confounded cat') about
trash containers:

> this is key, the containers *must* be there & *be* convenient, which
> in my inestimable (?) ignorance, is the responsibility of the promoter.

At YSH by the bay, I left about 3'ish and felt obligated to clean up a bit
first (leaving a mess for just a few who stay till dawn seemed very uncool
to me).  I couldn't find a single trash container bigger than a small plastic
grocery bag that was already overflowing.  That's one of the reasons I stash
some in my truck and, luckily, I wasn't parked that far away.  (I also use
them when I go hiking, climbing, etc.)

However, if trash containers were available and convenient for everybody's
use, I'm sure more people would use them -- Xochipilli was a good example of 
this.  


-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 13:43:37 1993
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Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 11:07:20 PDT
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9307021807.AA16370@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!usl.com!laura@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: some pre-FMR thoughts

There are also some Taoist chi kung meditation practices of "drinking" the
light of the sun or full moon in order to gather chi, or personal power.

-Mark

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 14:04:08 1993
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From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  DJ Worship--Not!
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Just being the devil's advocate here...

The reason the popular DJs are popular usually has something to do with skill.
I've heard a number of smaller DJs play, and I think that Jeno and Garth *are*
better than a *majority* of the unknown DJs.

Bryce makes it sound like it's impossible for unknown DJs to break into the
ranks of the big names.  Wrong.  Three examples of DJs who were unknowns a
year ago but who have made names for themselves: Jon Williams (who wasn't very
popular in LA), Mark Farina (who wasn't very popular in Chicago), and Carlos
(who *begged* to be able to play at the old Toon Towns and Gatherings but
wasn't given a chance).

Sure, I can name a bunch of DJs who I feel are vastly under-rated and who I
think *should* be big names (James & Gavan from Tweekin', Rick Preston, Simon),
and I also think that some of the *really* small DJs (sfraves' Lee or Jon D)
should get more exposure.  The problem is that "everyone wants to be a DJ",
and there are more DJs than are needed by the big raves, so the logical result
is that not of all the DJs will be hird by the big raves.  The smaller DJs
will have to play smaller parties or club nights and prove themselves and
work their way up.  Carlos did it.



From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 14:18:23 1993
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From: eric@nit.pactel.com (Eric Pederson)
Message-Id: <9307021836.AA13293@nit.PacTel.COM>
Subject: Re: The NEW empire
To: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 11:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9307021735.AA22169@netcom.netcom.com> from "Howard Berkey" at Jul 2, 93 10:35:00 am
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Howard Berkey writes...
> 
> Lee Fogel sez:
> > 
> > Geoff declares:
> > > 	You know the more I look at it, the more we are becoming like
> > > 	The Empire in  the Star Wars movies.
> > 
> > And I suppose that makes you Yoda.  Personally, I always wanted to
> > be Jabba The Hut...ooouuh...having a hard time finding a rave tie-in.
> > I know, the Force, kinda like a luv phaser right?.  Nah, in the end
> > they turned it into another missle guidance system.
> > 
> 
> 
> This is probably the best post on this thread yet.
> 
> Anyway, Thanks Lee.  Great post :-)

Lee's post was one of the only SFraves "philosophical" posts I've
ever saved.  Is that missile guidance joke original?
-- 
Eric Pederson                                        PacTel Corporation
eric@nit.pactel.com                                        510-210-8890

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 14:22:43 1993
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From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Re: The NEW empire
To: Lee Fogel <lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Fri, 2 Jul 1993, Lee Fogel wrote:

> Geoff declares:
> > 	You know the more I look at it, the more we are becoming like
> > 	The Empire in  the Star Wars movies.
> 
> And I suppose that makes you Yoda.  Personally, I always wanted to
> be Jabba The Hut...ooouuh...having a hard time finding a rave tie-in.
> I know, the Force, kinda like a luv phaser right?.  Nah, in the end
> they turned it into another missle guidance system.
> 
> - leg of eel

and we even have a princess leah!!!!!!!!(:(:





From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 15:25:18 1993
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Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 17:10 EDT
From: laura@usl.com
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  DJ Worship--Not!
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Mike says:

>The problem is that "everyone wants to be a DJ",

Well, I would hardly consider this a problem!  It will make it difficult for
some people to get work, but I never ever believed that someone should
approach DJing as a way to make money UNLESS they find they are already making
money off it anyway.  In other words, "don't quit the day job."

By there being lots of people with the talent and skill to spin a good set,
the "star" mentality becomes eliminated . . . the difference between DJ and
raver becomes even smaller.  More parties get thrown, the vibe spreads, the
scene grows.

>and there are more DJs than are needed by the big raves, so the logical result
>is that not of all the DJs will be hird by the big raves.  

And some of us might actually have NO INTEREST in playing at the big raves.

>The smaller DJs
>will have to play smaller parties or club nights and prove themselves and
>work their way up.  Carlos did it.

This is true.  

But getting back to DJ worship:  It's one thing to have a heirarchy of DJs 
based on skill and exposure . . . that makes a lot of sense.  It's another to 
be so "name-conscious" that no one BUT the big names ever gets a chance.  
There's a good system of parties out East that are "breaking" new DJs, as it 
were . . . Heather Heather's "Back to Basics" parties attract the real core of 
the New York area scene, and they'll have the internationally-famous "usual 
suspects" from Brooklyn (i.e. Frankie Bones, Jimmy Crash, Adam X, Heart), plus 
three or four unknowns.  It makes for an interesting mix, and after attending a 
few of these parties I can say that I've never actually heard a bad DJ at them.

Anyway, my point is that "heirarchy based on merit" is a natural outcome of
any activity that involves talent and skill, but I'm also against people ONLY
seeing the heirarchy and saying things like "never heard of them, they must
suck" which I hear out East from time to time.  This "if I don't know who
you are you must be bad" attitude is a twist on the whole brand-conscious
DJ worship thing.  (By-the-way Mike, and whoever is reading this, I am
NOT thinking or assuming that any of YOU all are "name-conscious."  I am
speaking from my experiences out here with people who call me up for party
information, and then whine that they are afraid to come to the party [even
though it was only $5 to get in, or even free] because ``well, I've never
HEARD of him.'')

The flip side of this is "I am a big name therefore I will always be a big 
name." It leads to the situation where a good DJ starts resting on their 
laurels, as it were, coasting through nights getting gigs just because their 
name is a monetary draw.  There are a few DJs out East that are definately in 
"coast" mode right now, and it's a shame because the way they are now is 
tarnishing what had been a bright past for them.

I guess what I'm REALLY getting at here is that (and oh god am I rambling) I
would like to see the scene totally divorced from money.  By there being many
good DJs, the situation of having to pay $700 to get Josh Wink to come in and
play for an hour so as to "draw" the crowd becomes obviated.  Here on the 
East Coast we've seen a lot of really expensive parties that just didn't
draw, and so the promoters lost a lot of money, the ravers who DID go had to
shell out $20 a piece, what is the point in all that?  Why not just collect
125 people under a bridge with nothing but the sound gear and a slide projecter,
and let each of them donate what they think the party was worth for them,
and think of money only as a way to interact with the "rest" (i.e. non-rave-
aware-YET) world?  Heather/Jimmy/Adam/Frankie/the unknowns do these parties
for FREE, simply because they got SICK of what they saw, decided they could
still pay the rent with their day jobs and a few paying DJ gigs, and are
doing their best to bring the vibe to us, with no fanfare, no hype.  (Even
Frankie's been staying off the damn microphone!)

Sigh.

Jesus, I'm sorry if I'm being annoying with all this posting I'm doing.  You 
see, I've been on ne-raves for over a YEAR now and it's too difficult to get 
any conversation like this going without it dengenerating into a flame war.  I 
feel like I'm *HOME* here -- even if you all *do* think 160 bpm is too fast for 
dance music :-) :-) :-) :-)

Oh yeah, I had the rare priviledge of hearing Lee spin when he was out in
Maryland visiting in early June.  All I can say is "WOW."  And don't even say 
things to me like "if you liked him, you'll be blown away by Garth" because in 
a way that would be doing a disservice to Lee (and in a way is more of the 
DJ-worship thing).  Taken as himself, Lee delivered a damn fine set on the 
morning of the DC-FMR.  Thank you, Lee.

Love and community, peace and respect,

Laura

P.S.  I cannot WAIT to come West and meet you sf-ravers!!!!!!!!!!!  :-)

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 16:25:50 1993
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Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:21:07 PDT
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap)
Message-Id: <9307022221.AA04096@curly.agames.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Thoughts from ol' Fred


"A man's maturity--consists in having found again the seriousness one
nad as a child, at play."

"What a time experiences as evil is usualy an untimely echo
of what was formerly experienced as good--the atavism of
a more ancient ideal."

"From love of man one occasionally embraces someone at random
(because one cannot embrace all): but one cannot tell him this--"

Or maybe one can.

Quotes from Friedrich Nietzsche, "Beyond Good and Evil"

(in line 2: "nad"="had".  I'm not in a real editor.)

// g

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 17:42:36 1993
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Date: 2 Jul 1993 16:40:21 U
From: "Glenn Fajardo,USA" <glenn.fajardo@aldus.com>
Subject: NW FMR... Here we go!
To: nw-raves@wimsey.bc.ca, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU

Well I'm off work and off line, hopefully my next posting will be of happy
events under the full moon.  We are geared and ready for tonights events.  It
has been an incredibly hectic week of checking out sites, connecting with
people who will be assisting us, and making all the necessary arrangements. And
incredibly, the weather has cleared!  Hopefully it will stay clear through the
night.  I wish you all good luck tonight. We will make sure to pay special
tribute the SF and New Jersey full moon ravers as you will all be with us in
spirit!  Peace to you all and may the vibe be with you!!!

Tigger 

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 17:53:36 1993
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From: nrg@netcom.com (Ethan I. Miller)
Message-Id: <9307022343.AA10109@netcom3.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The VISION thang...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 16:43:51 PDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Howdy gang, first off I's like to applaud and otherwise extend my heartfelt
thanks to Brian both for the tremendous amount of work he puts into this
list but also for such a brilliant, inspiring post.

I too feel much the same about sfraves. It provides an amazing amount of
focus and family for a scene that can at times be as cliquish, fragmented
and subject to the vagaries of mind, set and setting as other scenes and
indeed life itself...

Nothing makes me feel quite as good as going to a party where i know I'll
see people from the list. The picnics are great, the mail is great, its a
great thing.

Geez now I feel all warm and fuzzy :)
see ya all tonite!
nrg
-- 

From MAILER-DAEMON@soda.berkeley.edu Fri Jul  2 18:34:26 1993
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Some reminders and MORE NIETZSCHE! 
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 93 17:39:20 -0700
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu


Thinking twice before posting something that may not be
directly relevant to raves is a really good idea.  There is
no moderator for this forum: you've got to moderate
yourself. (And yeah, I know that this posting itself is kind
of pushing it.)  When you're replying to something that
probably wasn't appropriate in the first place, you should
probably use email.  Try and avoid fighting to get in the
last word.

When you want to do a unsubscribe/subscribe from a
mailing list like sfraves, mail the request to
sfraves-request@techno.stanford.edu.  Tacking on
"-request" is a convention that's used on all
mailing lists.

A standard computer display is only 80 characters wide, so
posting something formated for a wider screen is really
dumb.  In fact, using all 80 characters is kind of silly
(you'd never use lines that wide on single-spaced type when
on paper, why would you do this on screed)?  I habitually
use around 60 characters... email me if you'd like to know
how to do this automatically using emacs.

And as long as we're doing Nietzsche, this is from "The
Birth of Tragedy from the Spirit of Music" by Friedrich
Nietzsche (trans.  Walter Kaufman):

   Even under the influence of the narcotic draught,
   of which songs of all primitive men and peoples
   speak, or with the potent coming of spring that
   penetrates all nature with joy, these Dionysian
   emotions awake, and as they grow in intensity
   everything subjective vanishes into complete
   self-forgetfulness.  In the German Middle Ages,
   too, singing and dancing crowds, ever increasing
   in number, whirled themselves from place to place
   under this same Dionysian impulse. [...] There
   are some who, from obtuseness or lack of
   experience, turn away from such phenomena as from
   "folk-diseases," with contempt of pity born of
   consciousness of their own "healthy-mindedness."
   But of course such poor wretches have no idea how
   corpselike and ghostly their so-called
   "healthy-mindedness" looks when the glowing life
   of the Dionysian revelers roars past them.
					     

From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jul  2 20:34:25 1993
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From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Message-Id: <9307030128.AA04067@unislc.slc.unisys.com>
Subject: No Butts About It
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Bay Area Ravers)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 19:28:14 -0600 (MDT)
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I have to agree with Chris (aka, Jack - 'where's that confounded cat') about
trash containers:

> this is key, the containers *must* be there & *be* convenient, which
> in my inestimable (?) ignorance, is the responsibility of the promoter.

At YSH by the bay, I left about 3'ish and felt obligated to clean up a bit
first (leaving a mess for just a few who stay till dawn seemed very uncool
to me).  I couldn't find a single trash container bigger than a small plastic
grocery bag that was already overflowing.  That's one of the reasons I stash
some in my truck and, luckily, I wasn't parked that far away.  (I also use
them when I go hiking, climbing, etc.)

However, if trash containers were available and convenient for everybody's
use, I'm sure more people would use them -- Xochipilli was a good example of 
this.  It's much easier to keep things clean throughout the night than have
one big mess in the morning.


-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jul  2 19:39:39 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 18:54:07 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown

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Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 18:35:28 PDT
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9307030135.AA10061@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, howard@netcom.com
Subject: Re: The NEW empire
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU

> Lee Fogel sez:
> > 
> > Geoff declares:
> > > 	You know the more I look at it, the more we are becoming like
> > > 	The Empire in  the Star Wars movies.
> > 
> > And I suppose that makes you Yoda.  Personally, I always wanted to
> > be Jabba The Hut...ooouuh...having a hard time finding a rave tie-in.
> > I know, the Force, kinda like a luv phaser right?.  Nah, in the end
> > they turned it into another missle guidance system.
> > 

Actually I always thought of myself as Anarkin Skywalker ... :)

That's lee for bringing us back to earth :)


From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jul  2 20:01:05 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
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   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 power2.snu.ac.kr: Host power2.snu.ac.kr is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
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Date:         Thu, 01 Jul 93 00:41:27 EDT
From: Joe Pitassi <IQM497@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject:      THe VRAVE Badge!!!
To: neraves <ne-raves@gnu.ai.mit.edu>, sfraves@stanford.edu,
        pb-cle-raves@telerama.pgh.pa.us, dcraves@american.edu
Cc: seraves@american.edu



----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Okay, so you're addicted, you know you are.  Show it off with pride!
get the new........


                         VRAVE BADGE!!!!


YES! it's ready to go!  THe badge measures 3"x5" and is fully laminated and
comes with a 30" ball chain.  the front design consists of the word "V-RAVE"
in early 80's subway grafitti script.  It is resting on a spiderweb-like
net, and there are several orbs resting on the net also.
The back:  the background is a 3-d waffle-like texture pattern, and near the
top of the badge is the word "ADDICT" done in lettering reminiscent of
Vaughn Bode (if you don't know who he is, don't worry about it...the lettering
is pretty fresh) and an arrow (which looks like a mushroom) pointing down to
a box which contains your userid and handle or name.  under that is the
address for vrave, and under that is the slogan, "Get caught on the net."

the badge is available in the following colors for the front: white,
neon yellow, neon orange, and salmon.
the back is available in only in white/gray EXCEPT for when you order a white
front, in which case you have the option  of a light blue back instead.

the cost is $4.00 (US funds, of course!) for continental US orders and
 $6.00 for overseas orders.

To order, email me  your name, POSTAL address, color preference and
what you would like to appear in the box, either:

                            userid
                              aka
                             handle

           OR:

                            Handle
                              aka
                            name

and SEND ME the $4.00 or $6.00 by postal mail, and your badge will be sent to
you as soon as possible.  My address is:

                         Meddling Kids
                         c/o JP3
                         89 Home Avenue
                         Providence, RI 02908

I'm trying to send this to as many rave lists as possible, so feel free to
forward this post for me.  Anyone else interested in any other badges
i'm making, please email me and i will send some info.  Expect new and
different badges from Meddling Kids in the near future!!
I'm also open to doing some custom work on the vrave badge (for a fee, heh heh)
 for that "personal touch" :)

Stay Fresh kids!

->JP3 aka Speed Racer

From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jul  2 21:15:25 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 20:34:07 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown

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	id AA25912; Fri, 2 Jul 93 20:20:37 -0700
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 20:20:37 -0700
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Message-Id: <9307030320.AA25912@netcom3.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: New book on homarylamine*

A few months ago I saw a new book on MDMA by the British author
Nicholas Saunders.It's quite good,a very objective and dispassionate look
at an enigmatic substance.It has a lot of data on
the English MDMA experience, and contributions by 
modern-day neuro-shaman Sasha Shulgin.

*homarylamine was the name used by Merck and Co. in their original patent
of MDMA in 1914.

Anyway, I was talking to "LordNose" the other day
and he mentioned that he has become the US agent for the Saunders book.
His price is quite a bit cheaper than if you ordered from England
direct.(I think its  $25.00 if you order it directly from Saunders)

Anyway,
here is the e-mail blurb he sent me...
...
Glory Be!
What our community needed was a comprehensively-researched and well-written
book on MDMA (ecstasy).
Nicholas Saunders has provided us with a marvellously entertaining account of
MDMA and the exploding English RAVE scene.
Packaged between trippy holographic mylar covers, this book also features the
most up-to-date annotated bibliography of MDMA compiled by leading
pharmacologist / chemist, Alexander T Shulgin.
A must for everyone interested in this miraculous substance.
A limited number of copies are available for $16.00 ppd.
(CA residents please add $1.06 sales tax.)

Available from LordNose!
PO Box 170473E
San Francisco, CA 94117-0473

....
End Forwarded Message


From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jul  3 01:24:53 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 00:34:07 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown
421 violet.berkeley.edu: Host violet.Berkeley.EDU is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours

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	id AA23603; Sat, 3 Jul 93 00:29:59 PDT
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From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
To: ez003475@betty.ucdavis.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  The first Rave of SOL
Message-Id: <93Jul3.002930pdt.14115-1@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 3 Jul 1993 00:29:28 -0700

Waiting to  hear as well.  Also, great idea about the Ringworld system.
talk to Niven about any technical difficulties!!!!   :)

From MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Jul  3 01:29:14 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 00:39:35 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown
421 violet.berkeley.edu: Host violet.Berkeley.EDU is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours

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From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
To: geoffw@nexsys.net, jsl@netcom.com, roy@harlequin.co.uk,
        sfraves@medisg.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: The NEW empire
Message-Id: <93Jul3.001637pdt.14113-1@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 3 Jul 1993 00:16:34 -0700

Use the Farce Luke, trust your congressman.

From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jul  3 02:30:59 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 01:14:07 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown
421 violet.berkeley.edu: Host violet.Berkeley.EDU is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 22 hours

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	id AA23669; Sat, 3 Jul 93 00:48:59 PDT
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From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
To: nrg@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: The VISION thang...
Message-Id: <93Jul3.004825pdt.14108-3@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 3 Jul 1993 00:48:11 -0700

ditto, ..... and "Thank you " Brian!  

From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jul  3 09:02:08 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 08:14:07 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 genesis.mcs.com: Connection refused by genesis.mcs.com, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown
421 violet.berkeley.edu: Host violet.Berkeley.EDU is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours

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Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sea of Sin <kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>
Subject: Who is this?
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9307030700.D2531-8100000@noc.usfca.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Lately I have been seeing a lot of flyers and other things mentioning the
name "William Richard Higgs." Who is this?

someone who is clueless, but not as clueless as susie,

c of sin.




From MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Jul  3 10:29:53 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 09:39:38 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 genesis.mcs.com: Connection refused by genesis.mcs.com, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown
421 violet.berkeley.edu: Host violet.Berkeley.EDU is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours

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Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 09:21:01 -0700
Message-Id: <9307031621.AA20855@netcom.netcom.com>
To: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re:  DJ Worship (was slip into neutral (was rave FAQ))
Cc: sfraves@medisg.Stanford.EDU

>You know, the issue of the unknown DJs not being able to get a break
>sounds awfully familiar: COMMERCIAL ROCK. Yes, that glorious phenomena
>that rewards conformity with megadollars, and averts its eyes from
>some of the brightest new talent ever seen.
>
>Mind you, I'd not accuse Jeno, Garth, et al. of conforming. But I have
>heard it happening in some of the clubs. Anesthetized house being
>poorly mixed in clubs full of drinking kids, and them liking it. I
>hope we don't lose any aspiring talent to this scene.

Uh Jeno & Garth are two of the best known Dj's in the 7x7 known as SF. 
Why?  They are good technically, they know how to move a crowd, know how to
mix, have great selections of music, are into what they are doing, and how
to work a crowd.  They didn't get this way because they are english, or
this or  that....They are very good at what they do, and it took then YEARS
to get that way!

Aspiring talent needs to apsire to be the best it can be, regardless of
who's of first, what's on second.  Play whatca want, & how ya want to.  If
someones into whatcha doin' then you'll get booked.  But never give up. 
Kepp your skills goin, and eventaully you'll get it.  But be realistic. 
You have GOT to be GOOD!


Peace.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "What shall it profit a man that he should gain the whole world,         +
+  but lose his soul..."                                                   +
+                 from the village of jslee@well.sf.ca.us                  +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Jul  3 10:52:03 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 10:29:53 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 genesis.mcs.com: Connection refused by genesis.mcs.com, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown
421 violet.berkeley.edu: Host violet.Berkeley.EDU is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 22 hours

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	id AA20829; Sat, 3 Jul 93 09:20:48 -0700
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 09:20:48 -0700
Message-Id: <9307031620.AA20829@netcom.netcom.com>
To: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re:  DJ Worship--Not!
Cc: sfraves@medisg.Stanford.EDU

>My mailer says that laura@usl.com said:
>> 
>> We have had a REAL problem out East with DJ-Worship.  
>>
>Not just in the East, laura.  In SF, if you're not a "name", you
>can't get a gig.  Yes, one can start your own event (which is what
>a lot of people end up doing), but it's the typical conundrum.  You
>can't get a gig until you have name recognition, and you can't get
>name recognition until you have lots of gigs.

I dunno what to say about this.  In one way it's true, in another it's not.
 The DJ is 100% responsible for getting gigs in my estimation.  If bryce
were to come up to me and say "hi, I am a dj....etc. etc." I would ask him
one question:  "Do you have a tape?".  Now usually, especially the new ones
DON'T.  Then when they see the promoter again the still don't have a tape. 
If I am looking to book new people how am I to judge?  By their word alone?
 It would be nice but when you are putting a party together and you have
spend thousands the last thing you need is someone not prepared to do the
do.  A DJ, if looking for work, has got to learn to schmooze.  This is, for
all intents and purposes, a business.  And if you ain't know you should get
a calling card.  A tape is a good place to start.




>I guess what it all boils down to for me is: I don't completely
>agree with the "DJ is the T" -- we are each the T!  DJ's can't
>do it without equipment and dancers; dancers can't do it without
>DJ and equipment; eqipment can't do it by itself.
>-- 
>BryceR -- Bryce Ryan -- Specializing in AMBIANCE -- brycer@netcom.com
>TAZ's 1101, 1260, A5, G2 & 23.6 (our choice)
>"Memes want to be free." 


I agree.  But Dj's, like the overall production are an ingrediant, an
important ingredient.  Cuz without the dj there isn't music, without the
people there isn't energy.

Peace.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "What shall it profit a man that he should gain the whole world,         +
+  but lose his soul..."                                                   +
+                 from the village of jslee@well.sf.ca.us                  +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jul  3 11:20:10 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 10:34:08 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 thunder.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for thunder.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 deans-row.lakeheadu.ca: Name Server Failure for think2.LakeheadU.Ca, will keep trying for 3 days
421 genesis.mcs.com: Connection refused by genesis.mcs.com, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours
Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 /accounts/bbehlen/archive... Can't create output
550 sfraves-archive@soda.berkeley.edu... User unknown
421 violet.berkeley.edu: Host violet.Berkeley.EDU is down, will keep trying for 2 days, 23 hours

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From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Message-Id: <9307031713.AA10355@brise.ERE.UMontreal.CA>
Subject: Re: DJ Worship (was slip into neutral (was rave FAQ))
To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 13:13:03 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9307031621.AA20855@netcom.netcom.com> from "John S. Lee" at Jul 3, 93 09:21:01 am
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Beyond the ultraworld of John S. Lee:
> 
> They are very good at what they do, and it took then YEARS
> to get that way!

This is very true. It takes several years to become a good DJ. Anybody can
learn to beat match (more or less elegantly), but not anybody can move the
crowd... In your typical crowd of dancers in a rave, you have:
djs - they will notice every error and be very critical of the technique
musicians - again they will be very critical, not on mixes, but musical choices
newbies - the more mainstream you are the better they will like it
trendies - just play "rave the rhythm", and it's in the pocket...
real ravers (tm) - here you cant please everyone. If you are in their musical
                   style, they will be far less critical of the technique. After
                   all, they are there to dance. But you gotta focus long enough
                   on one style (dont go all over the place).

> Aspiring talent needs to apsire to be the best it can be, regardless of
> who's of first, what's on second.  Play whatca want, & how ya want to.  If
> someones into whatcha doin' then you'll get booked.  But never give up. 

Yeah, never give up is right. Dee Nasty was in the top 5 hip hop DJs in the
world in 1990 and he still had problems getting gigs in France... (well it's
what he told me, i have a hard time believing it).

> Kepp your skills goin, and eventaully you'll get it.  But be realistic. 
> You have GOT to be GOOD!

Not nescessarily... In SF it may be a reality, but on the east coast, it aint.
Some big names are technically poor. Here in Montreal, you gotta be very well
known AND connected to get a gig. And anglophone too. I'm french speaking, so
it's not that easy. Basically, you can buy your notoriety, kiss some butts and
you're in biz. You also got to understand that there are 2 major rave promoters
here (for a > 2 millions people in the metropolitan area) and they mutually
employ the other's staff of dj... Anyway, the interesting raves are the smaller
ones (<500), and there, these rules dont apply anymore, cuz the promoters of
these are in for the fun, not the money.

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU Sat Jul  3 11:33:09 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON@medisg.Stanford.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 10:39:40 PDT
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

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Message-Id: <9307031620.AA20834@netcom.netcom.com>
To: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re: DJ Worship?
Cc: sfraves@medisg.Stanford.EDU

>Ok folks, I end up hanging out in a recording studio all day ( Ask Mr baked
>raindrop ) and I have to admit there is a big thing there. 
>        A T T I T U D E 
>

There's supposed to be attitude.  The level of concentration required to do
tracks means that you gotta be on the one cuz' the clock is ticking!  You
have got to know what you're doing and how you're gonna do it.  It requires
confidence.  To socialize with these pople why not wait until AFTER they
are done and they can get more human with you.

>And it is the most worthless alienaiting thing Ive ever seen.
>Attitude, ego, personal achievement over all else....
>As far as Ive seen, this is not the goal of the scene.

Uh, but it is the goal of getting a record out/project completed.  A studio
is NOT a party, and is not a schmooze area for tips and pointers.  Respect
the creativity of others, it will come back to you in wonderful ways.  When
I have been in studios (both creating and assisting)  you know when to open
your mouth, and when to shaddup.  The energy of such prcesses is amazing,
and the result....is usually equally amazing (considering all of this was
in someones HEAD before!).  Don't take it personally.  Just the nature of
recording/creation.  

>
>The music plays, the vibe spreads... the power unleashes and we all become
>one. 
>One large wave of vibe traveling across the omniverse, in sync, moving up and
>downn and waving with the channels of the cosmos......
>

Are you referring to a party or a studio?  Right on if you're talking about
a party.  Wrong if you're talking studio time!

>Human beings, we are. We dont need to step on the heads of everyone.
>Let osme raw mewbee Dj take the table, so hes not perfect.. but the crowd
>looks up and cheers, mabye dances , another DJ jumps up and shows the guy what
>to do, suddenly we are all in the stream again...and annother one is born.
>


If a newbie gets on the decks and ruins the spirit, then I've messed up. 
That's why you should stay home and practice, practice, practice.  Start
your own small gigs so you can get exposure.  Talk to promoters and have a
tape ready.  Talk to Dj's  & to more experienced Dj's to find out about the
promoters they like/dislike.  Talk to the people close to the promoter. 
Scmooze, schmooze, schmooze.  Talk about something other than "ohh man
you're the best <promoter/dj/etc.> can I work for you..."  Talk about the
construction of music.  What you like about the scene, what you don't like.
 What he/she is looking for in a DJ.  Doing lunch.  Letting the promoter
get to know you as a person.  And even though he/she may never book you
having him/her direct you to someone who might!  But having an attitude of,
"i'm new, I DESERVE to be heard" will get you nowhere.  Especially since
news travels fast in a 7x7 square called SF.  


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "What shall it profit a man that he should gain the whole world,         +
+  but lose his soul..."                                                   +
+                 from the village of jslee@well.sf.ca.us                  +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jul  3 11:40:21 1993
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
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Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

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Connected to soda.Berkeley.EDU:
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Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 10:49:32 -0700
From: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
Message-Id: <9307031749.AA19338@netcom2.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU

> >
> >The music plays, the vibe spreads... the power unleashes and we all become
> >one. 
> >One large wave of vibe traveling across the omniverse, in sync, moving up and
> >downn and waving with the channels of the cosmos......
> >
> 
> Are you referring to a party or a studio?  Right on if you're talking about
> a party.  Wrong if you're talking studio time!
> 
>Em.... I think the operative phrase is " No shit " :)
I was refering to a open party, Hell I spend 80 % of my time in a studio
and I know exactly what you are talking aobut. Im not that raw and stupid to think that its party timre in a studio. 
 
> 
> If a newbie gets on the decks and ruins the spirit, then I've messed up. 
> That's why you should stay home and practice, practice, practice.  Start
> your own small gigs so you can get exposure.  Talk to promoters and have a
> tape ready.  Talk to Dj's  & to more experienced Dj's to find out about the
> promoters they like/dislike.  Talk to the people close to the promoter. 
> Scmooze, schmooze, schmooze.  Talk about something other than "ohh man
> you're the best <promoter/dj/etc.> can I work for you..."  Talk about the
> construction of music.  What you like about the scene, what you don't like.
>  What he/she is looking for in a DJ.  Doing lunch.  Letting the promoter
> get to know you as a person.  And even though he/she may never book you
> having him/her direct you to someone who might!  But having an attitude of,
> "i'm new, I DESERVE to be heard" will get you nowhere.  Especially since
> news travels fast in a 7x7 square called SF.  
>
Sure thing :) Its just that doing that is not as easy as you make it sound :) But its all real :)

personally I cant stand the attitude of " Im so damn fgood that I cant bother to talk to you " ... but thats just IMHO. YMMV.
 
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> + "What shall it profit a man that he should gain the whole world,         +
> +  but lose his soul..."                                                   +
> +                 from the village of jslee@well.sf.ca.us                  +
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
Now THERES a quote! I love it!
 


-- 
.............................................................................
.  |\ M A L G A M A T E D      .  Amalgamated Angst...                      .
.  | \         |\              .     IRC Addict....                         .
.  |  \        | \   N G S T   .      Entropy Tech.....                     .
.  |___\       |  \            .       Quaker Instant Flaming Reality ...   .
.  |    \      |___\           .                                            .
.  |     \     |    \          .  " You dont know anything about science    .
.  |      \    |     \         .      cap'n " -- Doc Tesla                  .
.              |      \        .                                            .
.                              .    FTC@NETCOM.COM                          .
.............................................................................

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul  4 21:46:55 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 93 20:41:45 PDT
Subject: Re: some pre-FMR thoughts

> There was a really neat moment for me at the latest FMR ...  right around
> 5:30am, I was standing by the water and the moon was about to set in the
> West, luminous and big, and there was light radiating from the hill to
> the East, where the sun was rising, and with the large 360-degree view
> you get from that position, I had the sudden sensation of standing on a
> big round disk, with a line connecting the sun and the moon, and the
> disk rotating around with the line; it was like, all that intellectual
> astronomy stuff I learned in school, it suddenly seemed REAL ...
> 
> ben
> ---

There you go... You see, before computers and city lights and telescopes
and ephermerides (before Newton invented the Calculus so you could make them :)

Astronomy/Astrology was a strictly observational art/science. We who
live in the modern cities, many of us never seeing the Milky Way, balk
at astrology as being mere superstition at best, and out and  out
quackery in the least.  But  if you could spend 20 years of your life
in a place like Salisbury Plain in England (or maybe just Mt. Tam),
devoid of chronographs, electirc lights, and all of the other charms
and talismans that the modern world has devised to ward of the darkness and
to disconnect you from the direct experience of the Mother, you would
start to notice the subtle rythyms of animal movements and plant growth cycles,
the rise and the ebb of the waters, and the great lights in the sky that seem
to mark the passage of events.  You might even start to place markers on the
ground so that you would know when the Bison would be coming through...

It is only modern man, in his overconfident but naieve world view, who would
entertain the thought that the planets must exert some type of unseen force
that controls the events of humans.  The ancients know that the motions in 
the heavens were mearly the markers of time passing, but ask yourself,
what would life be like, if we did not have the "artificial time" imposed
on us by our "clocks" and had to rely on Nature.  What would our world
perspective be?

You can get a glimpse of what that must have been like when you go to
an outside Rave.

Experience this and Remember...

			- G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 00:08:53 1993
From: dz5401a@palestrina.anderson-lab.american.edu (Douglas Zimmerman)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 2:19:21 EDT
Subject: subscribe calender


sub calendar dz5401a@palestrina.anderson-lab.american.edu

please?

thanks

doug ) ( 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 00:29:45 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 4 Jul 1993 23:33:51 -0700
Subject: Re: some pre-FMR thoughts

For those interested in how astronomy got its start in pre-modern-
scientific times, I'd suggest the excellent book by my Well friend
William Calvin.  Can't remember the exact title now but it's 
something like 'How the Shaman Stole the Moon'.  Shoot me with
virtual spitballs if i didn't get that right :)

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 01:18:00 1993
From: Peter Kennard <peterk@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 4 Jul 1993 23:50:35 -0700
Subject: Quote

 
"When I compose, I put myself into a sort of hypnotism that reaches the 
deepest recesces of my brain and pull the melodies out.  Sincere 
composers believe in God"   John Phillip Souza.
 
 
I'm sure I forgot it's exact wording but it was on the PBS special last 
night on Souza.  (only if it was accessable from a library on the net 
and I could recomend it like a book or find the quote)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 02:09:00 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 01:22:23 -0700
Subject: violent promoter nightmare


	while everyone was puting out fire at let freedom rave,
	i was in a mess of a different sort.

	livermore was too far for us to go last night, so we
	ventured to the party we had heard about at 16th and
	harrison in san francisco.  the price was ten bucks, 
	which was another factor.  we went inside to find an
	interesting thrashed wharehouse space, two dancefloors 
	downstairs and a chill room upstairs.  lots of grafiti
	all over and stuff.  the place was pretty well teched,
	good lights and stuff, but was nowhere near capacity 
	and none of the weird stuff the phone number promised was th
rocky/caliban

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 03:32:22 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 5 Jul 1993 02:41:16 -0700
Subject: Re:  violent promoter nightmare

16th & Harrison is well known for Lack of Vibe.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 12:00:59 1993
From: saucyboy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 93 13:59:01 EDT
Subject: 16th & harrison

also went to 16th & harrison-

 lately, i've been the bargain shopper, so the ten dollar price tag attracted
me. this was my first time going to a rave alone, and i didn't know anybody
there. i think i liked it better this way. i found it much easier to get into
the music without anybody to talk to.
 
 i was having an okay time until i saw some guy get out of control. he
started bumping into folks, pushing people, then grabbed some girl and
knocked her down. it almost looked as if he intended to rape her if she
hadn't kicked so much. later i was at a window upstairs and saw him out in
the street- guess he was kicked out, because he was hanging around, dancing
in the street, yelling at the security fellas. the cops promptly came and
shoved him into their van. suppose it was about 4 when they showed up.
 
 two of the cars stayed to check out the party. had one occifer ask me for
id. when i had none, i was escorted outside where i had the privelige of
being questioned about the place and about myself.  he let me back in, but i
had lost some of my earlier enthusiasm. they roamed the dancefloor for a few
minutes then left. i don't think they came back, although i left not too long
after they did.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 12:31:40 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 11:23:11 -0700
Subject: violent promoter nightmare



	while everyone was puting out fire at let freedom rave,
	i was in a mess of a different sort.

	livermore was too far for us to go last night, so we
	ventured to the party we had heard about at 16th and
	harrison in san francisco.  the price was ten bucks, 
	which was another factor.  we went inside to find an
	interesting thrashed wharehouse space, two dancefloors 
	downstairs and a chill room upstairs.  lots of grafiti
	all over and stuff.  the place was pretty well teched,
	good lights and stuff, but was nowhere near capacity 
	and none of the weird stuff the phone number promised
	was there.  also, the crowd was a little young but i
	was glad that there was no alcohol being served.  i
	had brought a friend from the east coast to see how we
	do it up out here and unfortunately it was a weak party.
	no groove kitchen here.

	/anyway/ about twenty minutes into our stay there nature
	calls me- it is time to let go of some of the offerings
	from sparkey's from earlier in the evening.  i found the 
	men's room, and besides being trashed there was no goddam
	toilet paper.  i tried the womens- no paper in any of the
	three stalls.  i though about it and dsecided that i would
	ask at the box office and if they could not put out on the
	tp scene i would ask for a refund.

	the woman in the box said there was none, and i asked for a
	refund.  i felt this fair- for bob's sake, it is pretty 
	inexcuseable for them to expect us to dance till the wee 
	hours without decent bathroom accomadations.  i went about my
	case with the box office politely yet firm, i really felt we
	deserved our money back.  she was no hekp, and i asked for the
	person in charge.  his attitude was terrible, he did his best
	to try to make me angry, and i really had to try to keep my
	cool and be mature about all this.  eventually he was like
	"why don't you get the fuck out of here, you asshole."  nice
	vibes for a rave promoter, eh?  i told him i did not like his
	attitude, still keeping my cool and not resorting to namecalling
	and other schoolchild lameness, and his attitude changed.  he
	told me that if i did not leave (i was on the sidewalk in front 
	of the box office window) he would come out and kick my ass.
	i was stunned.  i also told me that when he was done he would
	have his hired security also beat the living shit out of me.
	( i talked to the security guys after, they thought it was bullshit.)
	this guy threatened me.  think about this for a minute.

	what is happening here?  what is this scene coming to?  how 
	dare he?  worst of all, what could i do?  i am a believer in
	non-violence.  all i could do was leave.  we got in the car 
	and drove the hour home.  i felt like i had really let my friend
	down, after hyping the great vibes and spiritual energy that
	nor-cali seems to have the best of.

	i dont even know the name of this party, let alone the promoters,
	but i would like info on it.  the phone number is 408.450.2349.
	call and leave a message.  i am asking you all, sfr brothers,
	sisters and fellow aliens, to help me see to it that this guy
	and his group never throw a successful party and never make a
	cent off of us.  this person and group exploited all the 
	people who came to play that night.  this vibe needs to be run
	out of our community, and i cannot wait for karma to run its 
	course on this one.  will you help?




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 13:28:27 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 5 Jul 1993 12:29:09 -0700
Subject: Re:  Brit UNIVERSE in Sonoma?

It's Universe.  The date has been changed to September 18 last I heard.
And you asked Larry, are they the promoters, good people?  Yes....

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 13:47:43 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 5 Jul 1993 12:40:46 -0700
Subject: Re:  violent promoter nightmare

The promoters who use the 16th and Harrison space NEVER deliver what
they promise....Ravers beware.  

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 14:11:00 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 13:02:07 PDT
Subject: tilt a whirl


Tilt a Whirl was a good time, but never really got going IMHO.  The
first paying guests (I ended up showing up early to DAT tape) didn't
show until 4:30ish, and things were VERY slow up through 11 pm.  Even
at 11 pm, when the party moved inside, the crowd was only around 100
people.

Now, I'm not a crowd snob, it's just that for me, having the RIGHT
number of people for the space really helps.  Things were set up to
handle 500 people or so, and personally, I think 200 people would have
been a reasonable minimum to get enough people to establish the vibe.

Some visual group brought a video toaster and set it up in a way that
everyone could see what they were doing, which was pretty cool.  A
couple of big projection TVs could have made this radically cool.

Music was great overall, lots of killer tunes from DJs I've never
heard before.

(Editorial note: I might be coming down hard on this party because it
was the first time I had someone steal a set of C2 tapes.  I've sold
at lots of parties and never taken many precautions and never had any
stolen.  I guess this is a wake-up call to me that all is not
sweetness-n-light.  Ah, innocence...)

The promoter, Mark, is a really nice guy and seems to understand the
scene quite well -- in my book, he's a contributor.

yowsa,
Bob

PS  Housewares on Haight now sells the C2 tapes for $25 / set if you
need to find a copy quickly for a gift or someone leaving town or
something.  I've been talking to Carlos about releasing a cassette
(maybe a CD?) of his with partial proceeds to Mal --- this is kind of
significant as my DAT was recorded before Carlos had his crate stolen
:( but Carlos, while upset, is just glad that he wasn't shot or killed
:( as they surprised people with guns in his car :(

Bob


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 14:27:42 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 5 Jul 1993 13:13:17 -0700
Subject: Re:  violent promoter nightmare

Damn.  All of us need to communicate to each other on sfr our individual
'knowledge
 of the scene.  16th and Harrison sucks and the promoters who use that site
suck as well.  The entire building has horrible energy.  The building
itself is crumbling.  I went to this site for numerous parties around the
beginning of this year because I was new to the scene, the space was
'familiar' to me, i often went alone.  It didn't take long to 'see' what was
going on at 16th and Harrison.  Tweeked out, angry out of balance macho
assholes, false advertising, bribed authorities?, enough said.  These
comments are more than just IMHO.  So...where do we go from here...obviously
not there.
	
The Gathering's Let Freedom Rave was the best party I have ever been to.
When I gather myself, I will write a review.  For now, I suggest that y'all
plan for these events ahead of time.  Plan your carpools or means of
transportation on to two months in advance.  You won't know where the sites
are but odds are for big outdoor events, they will be 50+ miles away.  Many
people it appears could not find rides from the South Bay.  Next time offer
to meet a ride part of the way...bus in to SF, or Berkeley, or Marin County,
there are ways to make this work.  These are just suggestions...Thoughts
everyone?  

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 14:51:02 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 16:42:26 -0400
Subject: Looking for program: BPM##.ZIP

Friends
I'm trying to find a copy of BPM.ZIP, any version. It is available on
the Sound Management BBS in IL, but they want $45 to download. A gopher
search of the InterNet failed to locate the program. Thanks. Harry

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 15:31:07 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 14:22:10 -0700
Subject: speaking of promoters....


	my favorite group of people doing parties is the 
	magic sun group... richard et al.  i am very excited
	about the pyramid lake event this month and it looks like
	iu will be able to attend.  yoweeeee!  does anyone else
	think they are going to make it?  should we set up a nice
	little sfraves camp?

calirock


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 16:13:03 1993
From: tt1@netcom.com (Todd Tibbetts)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 15:18:08 PDT
Subject: =={ Put Us On The List }==

Just got to SF and Hit the Full Moon Rave.  I'm STAYING !!

Please put me on the list...

        by the way, I met two guys in the car next to
        me last night who saw my NE-Raves bumper sticker...
        You dudes out there?

tt

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 16:38:22 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 15:21:18 -0700
Subject: Verbal Aurgasm

trancemission 001

A new feeling has begun to express itself in our collective hearts.  It
is a feeling of the awe inspiring creative power which lies inside each
of us, the power of our diversity as individuals and of our collective
will as an emerging social organism.  That if we focus our attention and
act with purity of intent, there is nothing we cannot do together.

House music has brought us together and coming together has ignited this
feeling.  We have come to know a better way, but now the challenge is to
make our way real in every aspect of our lives.  Ultimately what we 
really need if we want really great parties is a really great planet to 
have them on.  We believe in the possibility of change and the necessity
of change.  A change beyond politics and materialism; a change of heart.

Planetary change is the big goal, but even giant changes are still made 
step by tentative step. Aurgasm - an environment of conscious sharing 
made by your participation - is our first step.  We believe co-operative
collective action is the only way to effectively accomplish this.

Aurgasm is a collective dedicated to creating evolutionary events - 
events that bring all kinds of people together both on the dancefloor 
and off.  Fun is our tool, communication our goal.

We want to provide a place that grows with you - over the course of the
evening and over the course of the summer and beyond.  At the beginning 
of every Saturday night Aurgasm will present San Francisco's first 
ambient pre-club, a forum for conversation, discussion and just meeting
people that will feature different performaces and happenings every 
week.  Bring a drum and get in free.  It'll be comfortable and you'll be
ablt to talk.  One focus will be on the ongoing co-creation of a
universal altar, a healing spot intended to create good conscious energy.
Bring flowers, candles, or whatever you like.

Later on, Aurgasm will metamorphise into a full dance environment 
featuring a rotating selection of talented music selectors.  Early on, 
you can expect the best in trance and later on, deep grooves and classic
sounds.

Aurgasm's temporary autonomous zone will be located at first in a 
conventional club environment, but it will be anything but conventional.
This presents limitations of age (21+_ that we regret.  We feel the law
should be changed, but also that we need to start collective action now.
Please come and check us out. we'd like you to get as involved as you 
want. Our success is your success.  Any profits from Aurgasm will be 
recirculated to empower us as a community.

BEGINNING SATURDAY JULY 10TH and THEN EVERY SATURDAY.  WATCH OUT FOR 
FURTHER AURGASM TRANCEMISSIONS.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a co-project of the newsletter I'm becoming involved with,
called the Great Day Times.  I will next type in the press release
for that...

	Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 16:50:39 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 15:38:13 -0700
Subject: The Great Day Times - press release


Hi friends!

Welcome to *The*Great*Day*Times*, _your_ community _views_paper and a
collective working to create a new media to better communicate about 
the issues that really affect us all from the future of dance music to
planetary healing.  We were brought together to create this paper out
of a feeling of necessity, we all know of many interesting and 
evolutionary things happening in the Bay Area, but communication 
between [and within - Brian] different scenes has often been sporadic
or non-existant.  We hope to be the forum that links them all together.

Our purpose is to inform and inspire using poems, essays, interviews,
word magic, mandalas, art pieces of all kinds and anything and 
everything else that can be printed on paper.  Reviving an alternative
press tradition that the San Francisco Oracle began in the 60's, we 
will be an unashamedly biased voice for local and community change.

To ensure maximum effectiveness, the Great Day Times will be a free
paper and all revenue will be generated through advertising.  If you
choose to advertise you will not only be making our work possible, you
will also be gaining a powerful marketing tool.  The Great Day Times 
will be a colorful, lively publication with a fresh and professional
design.  The initial issue will feature a rainbow colored art cover and
fold out into a 21" x 35" poster designed to be an artpiece that you'll
want to put up on your wall.

Our initial print run will be 20,000 and you can be sure of the 
effectiveness of our distribution because 10,000 of these will be handed
out individually - at parties and events and on the streets in the Haight
St. and Telegraph Ave areas.  The other half will be distributed in cafes,
clubs, shops, and other meeting places throughout San Francisco and 
Berkeley.

We assure you the Great Day Times will be much talked about, not because
of sensationalism or pointless controversy, but because we really believe
in the need for urgent communication and everything we print will reflect
that principle.  Put simply, we're on a mission.

Please tell us soon if you intend to advertise, we have just 12 ad spots
available in the first issue.

REASONS TO ADVERTISE IN THE GREAT DAY TIMES

* much cheaper and efficient than flyers.  Saves paper, time, and energy.
* positive, evolutionary message aimed at unifying the House Nation as a
	force for planetary change.
* for you and by you, targeted directly at the people you want to reach.
* custom artwork available by the Bay Area's finest "flyer" designers.
* the local paper of the 90's Haight Ashbury/Telegraph community.
* regular features and columns on the healing arts, health, and
	consciousness issues.
* comprehensive event calendar.
* run as a collective, all profits used to empower ourselves as a community.

The Great Day Time is here to stay.  Our next issue is planned for the
beginning of August when we will become a 28 page biweekly magazine.  Ask
for available discounts in future issues.

You can contact the Great Day Times at 415-267-3076.  Our mailing address is
1388 Haight St., Ste. 22, San Francisco, CA 94117.  Have a Great Day!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article submissions are also being accepted.  If you've written something
you'd like to contribute, especially if it was a post to SFRaves you'd like
to submit or perhaps re-edit and submit, send it to me.  The editorial
deadline is this Wednesday at 3pm.

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 17:07:55 1993
From: "Dana WATANABE" <DWATANAB@uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 15:30:29 PDT
Subject: FREEDOM

this mornign i wake up and am skimming throught the latest mondo
to see a damn add for this thing
might explain the large crowd with wierd energy
lots of people who seemed more business suit type
not really into the music
the LA side of things looked much smaller than the SF side
but the angles could have just been wierd
there werent any VR games or anything in LA either

the number i called said show up at 8, so i did
it didnt start til 9:30 or later so i saved myself
some cash cuz i had to go in through the back
they had a nice barbeque going with lawn chairs 
it felt very fourth of julyish...
but this was also in om laboratories so it was basically
someone's backyard that we were partying in

i saw taylor and he said that king was going on
and it was at the radisson hotel next to john wayne airport
had i a cellurlar and a laptop i would have posted this then
but oh well...

the 3D big screen visuals took awhile to set up
but the crowd looked great with everyone wearing the 
same 3-D glasses (polarized lenses)
once they set it up right, the effects were pretty good
some of the Hyperdelic video stuff was a little too fast 
to enjoy the 3-Dness... but they had shots of fish and stuff
swimming around, and the effect was really cool

i spent most of my time dancing by the screen cuz i really
wanted to see the satelite link up with SF and
it basically came on intermittently until like 1 am
when it would go back and forth

for awhile tim leary was on, talking into a mike 
and there was only video and no audio so it seemed pointless
but chances are, ive heard the speach before anyway
then there were just shots of people dancing and sayign hi
and playign around with the 3Dness of the image
it was pretty trippy... 
i foudn out later that the image on the screen was the same image
in both places, so it was pointless to wave to people or anything
cuz if you were looking at them then they couldnt see you
and vice versa...
its a neat idea that would be fun to play with tho

one last wierd thing was that i for some reason or another
(maybe being a male my age in this society)
thought that one of the women was going to flash us or take her top off
and about an hour later one girl was dancing and then stepped off camera
and came back on topless.. and i dont know about the people off camera
but most of the people dancing around her on camera didnt act as if
there were anything diff with that...
although when the shot kept cutting out, there were minor groans
on the LA side

so if anyone in LA was at Tef's or anyone in SF was on 
the screen lemme know...

after that i went home and ate a bite and then drove that whole 3.5 miles
out to king...
small... not much energy when i got there, but i found a flier saying
it was supposed to start at 10, so people could have been tired
if it really did start then cuz i got there at 3:30

nothing against whoever was spinning, but for some reason
it just didnt work for me... i thought to myself
'you know.. if taylor were spinning this, i would be dancing'
and i didnt know if he was better at wokring it 
or its just  part of that DJ worhsip thing

well like 3 hours later i was asleep on this platform
that vibrated oh so nicely with the bass
and i was barely conscoius when i heard some song come on
and i knew that the DJ had just changed
adn i lay there for awhile and listened adn the music
was really getting into me and iquickly woke up and was moving
i looked over to see sandra collins working the tables
and i dont know if the music was different
it seemed the same kind of music
but both sandra and taylor spun great sets that sounded similar
to the earlier ones  in selection, but somehow just felt
10 times better, maybe it was the little nap i took.. i dunno

sandra was good and got some of the crowd going, but when taylor
took over, the by that time, incredibly small crowd went off
although he loses major points for basically fading out sandras last
song and potting up his without any sort of mix whatsoever
but that was quickly forgotten while dancing

everyone had lots of fun, although everyone was not that many people
maybe more had been there earlier but even at 5 am people were showing
up, just to stop byt before moving on..

it ended at 8, although even after they turnd the lights on
the music didnt stop so people kept dancing
for a couple more songs when they got more assertive

damn i have a lot of sleep to cacth up on
 ,
dana

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 18:29:59 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 17:36:35 -0700
Subject: bad promoters

rocky m sed>and his group never throw a successful party and never make a
        cent off of us

maureen then said>16th and Harrison sucks and the promoters who use that site
suck as well.  The entire building has horrible energy.


Before I say anything I want to say sorry for the bad time.  It sucks
whenever someone has a bad experience at a party because it makes the
degenrative aspect of the scene seem bigger than it really is.

In the same breath I gotta ask, did you go to "get down get down get down"?

They are the same group who have been using that 16th & Harrison space.  I
must say though that it beehoves everyone to know WHO the promoters are
that are throwing these events.  I WONT go to any event sponsored by a
promoter who I feel acts in ill faith to the community.  I am not slamming
the Wally World crew (yep, same bunch), but there have been sooo many bad
things go on there (shutting off the h2o in the bathroom sinks so they can
make money selling h2o, a MILD example) due to the promoters themselves
that the SAPCE now has a rep.  And that ain't the way it should be.

You can start your protest by not attending any more of their events.  As
for a boycott, good luck.  Many new people go out each sat.  so your
crusade (justified) would hit the people within your realm of influence
(old school vs new school, just a party generational thang).  And pay
attention to who throwing the party, and you oughta be OK!

As for a SPACE being bad....no such thing.  Only attitudes/envrionments
created by people/people are bad.  That 16th & Harrison space I have wanted
to work for a long time.  But because people have associated that space
with bad things, and since most would not understand that the promoter is
the bad one, I can not throw a party there until the shit blows over.  So
quit bagging on the space, bag on the promoter.  There may be a 100% legit
person who wants to do something different there (not me mind you), but
will have their event screwed because of something someone else did.  The
promoter creates the atmosphere and the vibe.  The promoter is responsible
for seeing that everyone attending is taken care of and that they are
enjoying themselves in a safe environment.

I am also very picky about what parties I attend anyway (500-600 is enuf),
and I usually know who's doing what and where.  Just talk to people and
they should clue you in on what are the reputable parties.  Peace.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "What shall it profit a man that he should gain the whole world,         +
+  but lose his soul..."                                                   +
+                 from the village of jslee@well.sf.ca.us                  +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 18:47:33 1993
From: faerie@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Dara Ruth Papo)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 17:55:59 -0700
Subject: please remove me from the list..


thanks~

d

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 19:29:35 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 21:42:16 -0400
Subject: Re:  The Great Day Times - press release

{Warning: another plea from the East}
Is TGDTimes available by mail?

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 19:43:40 1993
From: Don Spence <dons@uop.cs.uop.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 18:57:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Badges




     Hi everyone,
      
	     I went to LET FREEDOM RAVE and had a great time(except for
	     the dust). But one of the things I wanted to do there was
	     meet some of the other SFRavers. Unfortunately, I have only
	     met a few at the one South Bay Lunch I went to, none of
	     which I ran into. 

	     So I was wondering, I see that there is a design in the
	     SFRaves directory for a button design. Did anyone ever make
	     any? If not I am toying with the idea of making some cool
	     badges, like the kind for backstage passes. What I would
	     like to know is if people would be interested in them.

	     I'm doing this because I want to meet more SFRavers, not to
	     make money, so all I would charge is the cost to make them
	     and send them to people.

	     I'd also like to know who design the button in the SFR
	     directory, to make sure it is alright to use.

	     If any one has any sudjestions, comments, design, etc.
	     please e-mail me. I'd like to know if there is enough
	     interest.


						TechFet
					     (aka Don Spence)
					     dons@uop.edu



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 20:06:37 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 18:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Let Freedom Rave

My notes on the Gathering (Let Freedom Rave):

1.  I HATE DIRT!  Dancing in dirt sucks!  By the time the sun came up, I
realized that my backpack had collected a nice thin layer of it which is
still not completely gone.  Also, for those wearing contact lenses, the
combination of wind and dirt can be a major problem.

2.  WHY'D YOU GUYS PUT OUT THE FIRE?  And why did they stop the music. 
The fire was providing great natural visuals.  The dance floor was
completely protected by the dirt (I guess that's one good thing about it), so
there was no real danger to any to the dancers, and what's a few hills? 
There were lots more around.  It would have been great to dance under a
raging brush fire.  (Before I get blasted for this, let me mention that
this comment is only half serious)

3. $20 PER PERSON FOR PARKING?  Charging admission at the entry to the
parking lot really threw me off, as I was planning to hike into the hills
and come in through the back.  Oh well, it was worth it for the cool orange
day-glo plastic bracelet(not).

From these comments, it may seem like I hated the rave.  I didn't really,
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???
							
/////////{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[[[<<<<<<<232>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\\\


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 20:23:46 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 19:10:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Raves: Relapsing or Reviving?

>  It was just about a year ago when there was a rash of posts -- here and
>on alt. rave -- that proclaimed the actual or imminent death of raving
>in the US of A. Commercialization, police infiltration, apathy -- there
>were plenty of reasons given.  But as I look around now in the Bay Area,
>raving seems more vital than ever. Am I too optimistic, or were the
>doomsayers wrong (or, at least, premature)?


It is in a "steady state".  Many drop out.  Many join.  In just about equal
numbers. 
 
On the other hand:
The number of promoters has stabilized.  The number of DJ's continue to
grow.  The number that get booked regularly though has remained fairly low
(primarily due to the nuber of promoters).

Vibe, uh who's vibe:
I think that since there is sooo much recycling of people comming in and
dropping out that the "vibe" as many call it is under constant revision
(oxy what?).  What was true as a vibe 1 year ago is completely different
than what many call it now.  Even people's reasons for going out has
changed radically.
The one element that is hardest to beat is apathy.  People would rather
stay home than go to [name your party].  So it's good that there is a large
amount of new people or this scene would surely die.  I do think that it is
months away from becoming commercial....I smell it (I ain't talking 4
colour flyers....I am talking "pink section" commercial).  Time will tell. 
I think though that as long as there are Full Moons, Late Trains, and other
word-of-mouth parties that "it" will never die.  remeber, we are the
Barbary Coast where lawlessness reigns supreme!

My thang:
I stay away from large events.  Groove Kitchen or Wicked is (when it's
200-600) is my taste.  Anything larger, I'll stay home.  I go out to see my
friends and crack-on with them.  Laugh, have a good time, get off my
rocker, have fun! 


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "What shall it profit a man that he should gain the whole world,         +
+  but lose his soul..."                                                   +
+                 from the village of jslee@well.sf.ca.us                  +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 20:47:29 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 19:47:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Badges

        About 8 months ago we had a party at my place and made a bunch of
badges, but I haven't ordered any more badge-making materials... if there's
sufficient interest, though, I guess I or someone could do it (if someone
else wants to, I'd more than let them - having a party to let people 
customize their badgeworked really well, btw).  The button design was mine,
feel free to use it/warp it/whatever. 

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 21:05:12 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 20:04:48 -0700
Subject: Field trip to LA next weekend and Pyramid Lake the 17th.

        Several of us on the list are interested in going to LA (so far as
I know, myself, Tamara, Cindy, Bob R., and Derek), and I thought I'd open
up this voyage to anyone else who wanted to go.  We're travelling down to
Joachim's radio show Friday night (and he may throw a small socal-raves
afterparty after that), and the LA Malachy benefit called "Togather".  We'll
probably leave LA around noontime Sunday.  Joachim has offered his house
for us to stay at, and I expect maybe 8 of us could fit in his living room 
if we brought a few sleeping bags.  If you'd be interested in driving down
with us let me know so we can arrange cars and such...

	As for Pyramid Lake, many many of you have expressed interest:
Ciamac, Ben Wing, Phred, Steve, Randy, and Zak... I definitely want to
go, but I'm not sure I want to drive.  Buses are going to be available for
$10-$15, and I may consider that worth it since I don't really need another
speeding ticket :(.  But if a group of us wanted to get together and get
a motorhome or something that would be great - I asked about the surroundings
and there are NO TREES and NO SHADE.  I think we need SOME sort of structure
we could call our own, be it a motorhome or a big big tent or something.
As before, send me mail with your ideas... 

	On a side note, as people were walking towards the door as the fire
started at Let Freedom Rave, the Cyberfest guys were handing out their four-
page flyers as quickly as they could.  Now I dunno about you, but to me this
really opens a door of insight onto their whole operation.... my favorite
two lines, when combined, on their flyer so far is "20,000 capacity! This
event will sell out!"  Sheya right.

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 22:08:01 1993
From: leslie ann pawlovich <lpawl@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 00:17:23 -0400
Subject: Re:  Badges

make em! definately alot of interest.  I collect net badges, so contact me 
when they're ready!! great idea!
/

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 22:25:58 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 00:40:51 -0400
Subject: Re: bad promoters

In article <9307060036.AA29908@netcom.netcom.com> jslee writes:
|
|As for a SPACE being bad....no such thing.  Only attitudes/envrionments
|created by people/people are bad.  That 16th & Harrison space I have wanted
|to work for a long time.  But because people have associated that space
[etc]

I think it's definitely possible for a space to be good or bad.  The one
time I was at 16th/Harrison, I remember that the sound system was real
shitty; I hear the Stone has the same problem.  This can be a BIG downer.
Some places don't have chill spaces and makes life worse, too.

ben
---
"... then the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was
more painful than the risk it took to blossom." -- Anais Nin

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul  5 23:51:37 1993
From: Alan Michael Parry <brit@ravel.udel.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 02:01:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: IBM BPM counter...



Apologies for the cross-posting. Im looking for a BPM counter that will
run on my IBM. Anyone? many thanks. :)
  _
 (_ )  ) (  ) _(            
 (  (_ (_) ( (_(




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 00:05:50 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 23:01:49 -0700
Subject: Re: bad promoters

>I think it's definitely possible for a space to be good or bad.  The one
>time I was at 16th/Harrison, I remember that the sound system was real
>shitty; I hear the Stone has the same problem.  This can be a BIG downer.
>Some places don't have chill spaces and makes life worse, too.

Those are still things the promoters can and sometimes do change - I doubt
there's any sort of permanent sound system at 16th & Harrison, most clubs
don't have in-house sound systems anyways.  

I haven't been to any parties at 16th & Harrison, but I have been to good ones
and bad ones at 1015 Folsom, Trocadero and 174 King.  And while the few I've 
gone to at the stone were kinda weak, Channelling was supposedly very good 
there... different venues provide different challenges for promoters, and the
good ones can turn any space into heaven.

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 00:32:06 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 23:33:30 -0700
Subject: Raving insane...


  Whew!!   Finally recovered from a very intense rave weekend.   A fellow
raver from LA came up late friday night to join me for the FMR.   The place
was really neat,  very cool temperature wize,   but not so cool as far as
the porcine pigs were,  but they showed restraint,  then when we got the
15 minute warning,  I pulled out all the stops and was hopping around
like a mad man to burn up all that energy I saved up.    As I was boogy'ing
by one of the cops,  I said "This is great exercise,  you should try it!".
the cop said "Naaah!!  I'm too old for this",   I said "look at me,  I'm
old enough to be your father",  then I boogied away and headed back towards 
the middle of the dance area.

  After that,  the very next evening,  we headed out to Livermore for the
Gathering.   I'll skip the details on the fire,  as that was already told,
but other than the dusty ground,   it was pretty lively,  and so was I,
when I had a little boost of energy provided by the popular chemicals.

  I suppose everyone thought I was crazy,  as I was bopping around people,
going stark raving mad with such an intense amount of energy that I couldn't
believe I had,  but WOW!!  I sure had fun.   I stayed till the end,  dispite
the heat and sun.   After that,  we boogied over to the Boogy Cafe and raved
some more.   By that time,  I was still flying high.    But I wasn't going 
to stop yet,   so I went back to Fremont to shower and go swimming and cool
down a tad,  by about this point,  I only had about 2 hours of sleep since
Thursday evening.    By the evening (Sunday) we went to the Freedom rave
at the ConCourse where I met Tim Leary in person (Who,  by the way I have
met on many ocassions).    The 3d screen was totally awsome,  with fish
swimming around the dance floor,  coming right out at you.    I still had
plenty of energy and took two or three spins on the Orbitron to loosen
up my back,   WOW!!  Talk about INTENSE!!  - Anyway,  the music on the
dance floor was just not happening until after about 2 pm,  which was
totally dissapointing.   Just as I get into a really neat tempo,  the
DJ was screwing up my mind.   There was plenty of other entertaining
things going on,  but as soon as I hear the music pick up,  I was
hopping around in a totally insane trance,  at least till the music
got bad again.

  There were virtual reality games galore,  plenty of high tech toys
to play with,   and we had lots of fun.

  After the rave,  we went to Santa Cruz to drop off Craig,  and i FINALLY
came down at about 10 am on Monday.    Hmmm!  I thought I coped with the
substance fairly well,   I just had more energy than I thought I had.

  But with that 20 hours of dancing off and on over a period of 3 days,
I am not the least bit sore,   just slight stiffness in my calfs,   but
nothing a nice jacuzze won't fix.  I guess all my exercising is really
starting to pay off.  I sure don't feel like I'm 50 yrs old anymore.

  Can't wait till the Pyramid lake rave,  and the CyberFest coming up.

See Ya all there...

Rave on..
Crunch

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 01:45:21 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 93 00:33:58 -0700
Subject: Fwd: SRL at "Ravestock"-style event in NM this August?


------- Forwarded Message

From: Lazlo Nibble <lazlo@triton.unm.edu>
Message-Id: <9307040054.AA23778@triton.unm.edu>
Subject: SRL at "Ravestock"-style event in NM this August?
To: nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu, bpm+@andrew.cmu.edu
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 18:54:19 -0600 (MDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Has anyone heard of two rave promoters calling themselves "Irrelevant
Rituals" and "Real Food Productions"?  They're flyering for a three-day
event on an Indian reservation somewhere near Albuquerque this August
that's *supposed* to feature Moby, Arjuna, Acen, Prodigy, Meat Beat
Manifesto, and three performances by *Survival Research Laboritories*.
This gig sounds like complete bullshit to me -- there just aren't enough in
New Mexico to make something this big worthwhile.  Has there been any talk
on the west coast about this thing -- anyone asked to DJ, heard talk from
SRL hangers-on, etc?  Anyone have contacts for band management people who
could confirm or deny that these bands are signed to play it?  Thanks.

- --
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

------- End of Forwarded Message

PS: I just picked up a new CD by "Eat Static" called "Abduction" at
Reckless Records, SF... a bit pricy at 24.99, but very very tasty
nonetheless if you are into atmospheric spacy trancy techno w/ lots of 
cool samples. (Also purchased, On-U Sound "Pay it All Back Vol IV",
On-U Sound "Reggae Archives Vol II", and Bahia Black's "Ritual Beating
System".... Yeeehaw!
				-- Niels.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 03:32:15 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Vrave Crasher)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 02:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: badges

Well we should make badges again. I thought of a good idea to redo the
badges. Maybe make them laminated like the NERaves badges. I just have to
see if I can get the perfect pic to do the front design and somewhere in
the design insert the logo. I am not the artist though, so I have to
figure out the layout somehow. And on the back we could put the net name
or nickname and whatever quotes we want and the net address. This badge will
prob be black and white unless we get different colour paper when we print
out the design. It's just an idea.

Sea of Sin


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 05:06:39 1993
From: murphy@ucscb.ucsc.edu (eris)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 04:10:36 -0700
Subject: rooooooom

hi all!!  i am leaving santa cruz and moving to san francisco very very soon.
(yay!)  the major problem with this being that i have yet to find myself a
place to move into on the first of august or sometime between then and the
25th (when sfsu starts).  if anyone knows of someone who needs a housemate,
could you pass the word for them to give me a call at (408)426-8961 or
leave a message at (408)458-4182.  I'll reimburse you for the call when you
get the bill or e-mail my housemate (timoteo@ucscb.ucsc.edu) with my name,
Marlo, in the subject line.  I am looking for a place near bus lines and
that is $350/mo. or below.  all mail sent to account murphy may get lost in
transit since i think this account's life is about to fade out.  thanks a
lot and sorry for strayin so far from the related topics.
-marlo:)
BTW, my room in santa cruz will be available august 1 in case anyone is
interested in moving here....

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 07:26:06 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 06:29:47 -0700
Subject: Re: bad promoters

>In article <9307060036.AA29908@netcom.netcom.com> jslee writes:
>|
>|As for a SPACE being bad....no such thing.  Only attitudes/envrionments
>|created by people/people are bad.  That 16th & Harrison space I have wanted
>|to work for a long time.  But because people have associated that space
>[etc]
>
>I think it's definitely possible for a space to be good or bad.  The one
>time I was at 16th/Harrison, I remember that the sound system was real
>shitty; I hear the Stone has the same problem.  This can be a BIG downer.
>Some places don't have chill spaces and makes life worse, too.
>
>ben

Sorry I disagree.  All those elements you listed have NOTHING, I repeat,
NOTHING to do with the space.  The PROMOTER has everything to do with:
Sound System selection/tuning, environs (chill space), type of crowd (after
all isn't s/he in charge of promotion).  This nonsense about SPACES has got
to stop since it is utter BS.  HArrison is an empty space, walk in there
right now you wont find speakers.  The stone has a HOUSE system, but for
every party thrown there it has been OFF.  Let Freedom Rave (of which I did
not attend) had no speakers there until someone set them up.  So tell me
what does the SPACE have to do with anything?  If anything it's HOW a space
is used.  Some of the BEST parties are still in warehouses and are not
advertised (I go to these events).  And although they dont have the top of
the line equip for visuals they do have the most psychedelic setups
sometimes.  Also the spirit of the people adds to the experience of
psychedelia.

The other problem I have with some folks is the idea that they won't go to
a space because of so-and-what.  Look, if you want to go out in SF, and
promote your party, it will be in a legal club, period.  If you want 18--
it will be at the Stone, otherwise risk getting it shut down.  If you have
a party outside the city you have to promote to some 14,000-20,000 people
just to get 1-2% of the crowd.  The thing is with that though is that MANY
wont travel.  Some people won't go north, some won't go south, and some
just won't go.  Then when there are 18-- events many 21+ won't go or are
HARD pressed to (I am HARD pressed, but I go to some events where I know
the promoters personally).  And with 18-- it's the same crap hoot.  So many
of these folks (18--) have been burned and won't go out unless it's a
massive.  So either have more free events (unlikely), have more UG's
(undergrounds, very likely), or have one in a space everyone will love (no
such thing).  But stop bagging on spaces, and start bagging on
promoter/production/vibe.  Because that is something that can be helped.

Peace.  


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped,indexed,briefed, de-briedfed, or   +
+  numbered!"                                                              +
+                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com                       +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 08:12:10 1993
From: simon@lsupoz.apana.org.au (Simon Rumble)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 13:01:53 GMT
Subject: Re: FOOLISHLY BRAVE RAVERS SAVE THOUSANDS - DETAILS AT 11

Seems like on Sun, 4 Jul 1993 16:27:56 -0700 Brian Behlendorf said:
: I should add: the fire was most likely started by fireworks, for there were
: lots of them going off despite the intense search at the entrance.  It was
: on the hill the laser was shining on, but the laser was sufficiently 
: diffuse that I doubt it could have started it.  After the fire, the laser
: came on and wrote something like, "LET'S ALL HAVE FUN... WITHOUT FIREWORKS"

How did the laser manage to write so many letters or did they come up
one word at a time?  I doubt VERY much that a laser used for a light
show would cause a fire...

-- 
+-___----------------------------------------------------------------+
||___               "This House is Live"                             |
| ___| H E R M                             simon@lsupoz.apana.org.au |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 09:13:23 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 8:19:06 PDT
Subject: Re: Brit UNIVERSE in Sonoma? (fwd)


Hello Folks !

 In reply to my original UNIVERSE post , I received the following message.
Miles has agreed to let me forward it to the SFR list - enjoy!

 ( The original article is marked with '*' , my original comments are 
   marked with '>' , and my reactions to Miles comments are in '[]' )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
 Subject: Re: Brit UNIVERSE in Sonoma?
 To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 9:03:37 GMT
 
 * 
 * RAVE NEW WORLD
 * 
 *  Universe, a British rave production company, reportedly
 * has its eyes on a Sonoma County site for a big
 * American venture at month's end.
 
 The first scheduled date was 31st July, an objection was raised against the
 party and the new date is September 17th, not necessarily at Sonoma.
 
 * Last April, this organization
 * attracted a crowd of 25,000 to a muddy 
 * field outside Bath in rural England.
 
 The actual number was more like 30 000, we had people coming from all over 
 Europe, some from the Bay and even Australia, as a result of what I do for
 UNIVERSE on the nets.
 
 * The ravers were 
 * entertained through the night into morning under
 * five circus tents by little more than light shows, deejays 
 * spinning records and free carnival rides.
 
 ..by little more than light shows?????? Geez, havn't you seen the TV
 footage of the event? The were five TV crews from all around Europe, MTV
 RTL, Channel 4, Sky TV etc.
 
 [ I don't have cable TV , so I don't watch MTV. Pop culture events that 
   happen outside the US borders are usually do not get the attention of
   the US new media , no matter how good or bad ]

 [ "by little more than light shows" - us ravers are easily amused , huh? ]

 ....DJ's spinning records?!?!?!?!?  We had 40 of the Top DJ names in the 
 world, several live PA's by very well known, in the dance/club scene, acts.
 
 * The
 * company eschewed the mainstream media and promoted
 * the event through subterranean means, so,
 * perhaps not surprisingly, calls to the producers' British
 * offices were not returned.
 * 
 * 				Joel Selvin
 * 				Chronicle Pop Music Critic
 * 				July 4th, 1993 
 * 
 * ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Calls to the Office are answred, I ring them almost daily without problems
 
 [ Joel Selvin is probably upset that the folks at the Universe office
   don't want to spend the money on a trans-pacific , trans continental
   phone call just to talk to him. ] 
 > 
 >  So , which event are they talking about? Have there been flyers for
 > this yet? Are the promoters , Universe , good people?
 > 
 >  				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 > 

 [ Other SFRaves folks have already said that this is the event that is
   scheduled for September ]

 Yes, as one, I'll say that UNIVERSE are "good people" you need to read
 some of the Independant reviews I get sent for these events. Expect a
 pre-flyer for the US event when 'tings get firm, Na wha' ah mean, guv?
 
 [ Since you capitalized "Independent" - is this a publication of some
   sort ? ]

 I'd be most happy to provide you / listings poeple with all the correct
 information on UNIVERSE should you require it.
 
 Sincerely Yours'
 
 Miles Pearce 
 
 


-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 10:34:23 1993
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 09:21:22 -0700
Subject: Re:  Fwd: SRL at "Ravestock"-style event in NM this August?

I was at a housewarming party a few months back (standin in the kitchen)
listening (for the most part) to Mark Paline and several SLR sycophants
slag ravers for a good 45minutes or so. If he's doing a rave it for no
worthwhile reason. There's also no worthwhile reason to try and bring
SLR and it boring onedimentional art into the rave seen.

GIl.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 10:56:00 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 09:38:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: The NEW empire (fwd)

i was talking with laura yesterday...and we agreed that cindy is r2d2...
she is really smart, cute and friendly...and remebers
everything...partyon...susie (:



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 12:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
To: Lee Fogel <lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: The NEW empire



On Fri, 2 Jul 1993, Lee Fogel wrote:

> Geoff declares:
> > 	You know the more I look at it, the more we are becoming like
> > 	The Empire in  the Star Wars movies.
> 
> And I suppose that makes you Yoda.  Personally, I always wanted to
> be Jabba The Hut...ooouuh...having a hard time finding a rave tie-in.
> I know, the Force, kinda like a luv phaser right?.  Nah, in the end
> they turned it into another missle guidance system.
> 
> - leg of eel

and we even have a princess leah!!!!!!!!(:(:







From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 11:18:23 1993
From: "Glenn Fajardo,USA" <glenn.fajardo@aldus.com>
Date: 6 Jul 1993 09:30:01 U
Subject: NW FMR... Bliss!!!!

I am stunned.  I cannot even begin to describe this most intense and utter
sense of fulfillment within me.  The first NW FMR was as wonderful success and
the vibe rolled over Seattle in a big thundering, awesome wave.  Something
wonderful has happened up here.  And for me, life will NEVER be the same.

The site we picked was Golden Gardens park in the northern part of Seattle. 
The north end of the park has a secluded beach surrounded by a heavily wooded
hill and bordered by a railroad track.  

I started working the phone tree around 6pm. I was inundated by calls from
various groups involved with the scene wanting to contribute equipment,
personnel and other resources.  The community was pulling together to make this
happen!  That in itself was astounding as Seattle has quite a dysfunctional
scene.  Lots of different factions who will not even look at each other let
alone talk. But, that's another story.

I manned the map point at around 11:30pm.  I gave verbal instructions to
everyone who came what to expect, where to park, who to go to for assistance,
how to get to the site as quietly as possible and what we needed from them to
make this work. We then sent 5 carloads of people at a time spaced about 20
minutes apart from each other.  I stayed at the map point past 2:30 to make
sure  that any stragglers got taken care of.

The setup crew got to the site at about 12:30 to start hauling the equipment in
from the a remote parking area.  From what I was told, there were about 50
people helping out to get the equipment set up.  There was a really hairy
moment when the setup crew heard the cops' bullhorns blaring to tell everyone
to get out of the park.  Everyone had the presence of mind to take the
equipment into the bushes and DOVE into the the long grass to hide out.  The
cops came with a couple of feet of the crew flashed their lights around and
drove off!!!!!!!
The next time that the cops showed up was to open the park gates!!!

I finally got into the site around 3am to be greeted with a beautiful sight. 
People were everywhere.  Dancing, talking by the fire. CONNECTING!!!  The vibe
was everywhere in it's fullest brightest essence.  I was told that there must
have been over 250 people at one point.  There were about a dozen dj's there,
mostly local.  Robbie Hardkiss was there as well. Unfortunately, I had missed
his turn at the table being that I was at the map point.

The weather stayed warm, although cloudy.  The moon blessed us with her
presence in the earlier part of the night and blessed us further later on by
keeping the cops out and the vibe strong. I'm sure that other nwravers will
fill other parts that I've not been able to put in.

The groove lasted until 8am when it started raining.  Everyone pitched in to
clean up and we left the site in better shape than when we got there.

I want to thank EVERYONE who was there.  There are too many names to mention.
Again, I'm counting on the other nwravers to fill in the rest for me. 
It is with great pride and a great sense of love that I share this with all of
you.  Thank you sfravers for your help, ideas, and for sending the vibe our
way.

I send my love to everyone.  Peace!!!

Tigger 


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 11:58:58 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:35:27 EDT
Subject: Raves: Relapsing or Reviving?

Arthur Chandler writes:
 >   It was just about a year ago when there was a rash of posts -- here and
 > on alt. rave -- that proclaimed the actual or imminent death of raving
 > in the US of A. Commercialization, police infiltration, apathy -- there
 > were plenty of reasons given.  But as I look around now in the Bay Area,
 > raving seems more vital than ever. Am I too optimistic, or were the
 > doomsayers wrong (or, at least, premature)?

Death of Usenet predicted! Details at 11!

Anyone heard that before? :) It seems every time there was a flap on
Usenet, and sometimes when there wasn't, people were predicting that
the net itself--or at least the spirit of it--would be killed by
commercialization/government action/the thought police/etc.  It didn't
happen, and it probably never will.

I feel the same about raves. As long as there are DJs and sound
systems and people wanting to dance, there will be raves. Surely the
scene will mutate, but there will be something for every audience.

Don't worry, be happy :).

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 12:05:59 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 93 10:09:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Fwd: SRL at "Ravestock"-style event in NM this August? 

>I was at a housewarming party a few months back (standin in the kitchen)
>listening (for the most part) to Mark Paline and several SLR sycophants
>slag ravers for a good 45minutes or so. If he's doing a rave it for no
>worthwhile reason. There's also no worthwhile reason to try and bring
>SLR and it boring onedimentional art into the rave seen.

I too have dealt w/ the SRL sycophants and yes, they do really hate
raves... Such is life (they're probably just pissed that someone
thought of a better way to divorce the young and the hip from their
money). Fact is they're in to plenty of stupid shit themselves that you
can slag them back for (tho that might be hard to do when outnumbered
at a party -- just wait till the party is over and slag them on
nm-list!).

You can either ignore them, or give them as much shit back as they give
you... you can't fight them with positivity (it's a foreign language to
them), so indulge yerself in a bit of negativity (fight fire w/ fire). 

SRL -- definitely "industrial", definitely not ravey due to their
preoccupation w/ death, mutilation, and destruction. I think it's fun
to watch, but then again, I like seeing inanimate objects blow up. THey
are ravey from the sensory overload perspective -- lots lots of noize, 
light, heat, and smoke...

And yes, SRL has nothing to do with raves, except that some ultra
commercial raves of late have turned into 3hree-ring-circii w/ all
sorts of clowns and freaks a wanderin' about as "entertainment". I
guess SRL's appearance at this "rave" puts them squarely in the clowns
and freaks category. Unless they take themselves too seriously, that's
where they belong anyways in that cosmic circus we call life.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 12:11:35 1993
From: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Date: 06 Jul 1993 10:54:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: gd mailing list

Does anyone know how I can get onto the Grateful Dead's Mailing list?

So, So retro . . . 


Dave Scruton   "Celtic Warrior"
Hughes Aircraft

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 12:30:06 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:57:07 EDT
Subject: Anyone been to Pyramid Lake? (Need useful info)

I'm probably going to go with a friend. Can anyone tell me:

What elevation is the site?
What's the terrain like?
Is it windy?
Is it on the lake? Is the lake swimmable?
Are there any toilet facilities?
Is drinking water supplied?
How hot/cold is it expected to get?

This will help me and others plan for a comfortable stay.

Oh yeah, is this a good area to go fossil hunting?

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 12:37:29 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 11:24:33 PDT
Subject: free beach party...


I don't know if this is going to be daytime or nighttime, 
call later for more info:

Free Beach Party
	dj's mark farina, jon williams, and scott & robbie hardkiss
	wednesday, july 7th
	415-979-8444

(put on by the Hardkisses)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 12:52:28 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 14:15:57 EDT
Subject: *smile* you're on video

How do you feel about unknown persons making videotapes of you
dancing?

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 13:17:41 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 11:47:56 PDT
Subject: Re: Fwd: SRL at "Ravestock"-style event in NM this August?

SRL at a rave would be very interesting.  I wonder how many people
they can convince to sign their "it's ok if you blow me up--i won't
sue" agreement?  I also have an ugly vision of a tweaked person
stumbling into the performance area.  

This is *not* a good idea. Tell me it isn't really happening, please!
-- 
BryceR -- Bryce Ryan -- Specializing in AMBIANCE -- brycer@netcom.com
TAZ's 1101, 1260, A5, G2 & 23.6 (our choice)
"Memes want to be free."

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 13:18:48 1993
From: gregrich@microsoft.com
Date: Tue,  6 Jul 93 11:10:07 PDT
Subject: RE: NW FMR... Bliss!!!! <WAY LOOOOONG>


wooHOOO!!!

The first NW FMR was a truly crazy event, a horn o' plenty bursting 
with good feelings, openness and flat-out amazed appreciation in 
everyone for everyone there.  It wasn't only a great party; _everyone_ 
there had a great time meeting and connecting with everyone else.  And 
_everyone_ poured the beautiful glow of themselves into this fire-lit 
beach, creating this _warmth_ that I'm still basking in.

The whole event started its organization over the net.  In fact, three 
days before the event, everyone hadn't even met everyone else 
face-to-face!  And as usual, the pre-event logistics were crazy; 
figuring out an invisible map point, generating maps, coordinating the 
movements of the three different groups carrying the equipment... just  
_nuts_ ; as it was, we got off to a late start and had to wander by the 
map point on the way to getting the stacks/generator/amp to have them 
hold back the ravers from heading out there so soon.  But on the way 
out, the goddess Luna poked her head out of the clouds, gave us a wink 
and sent us on our merry way with a little more reassurance.

Never having done this before, Cato & Eye were a little on the paranoid 
side as we cruised through the residential neighborhoods on the way 
there.  We were passed by a black-and-white which sent considerable 
shock voltage down our spines until we realized that they hadn't the 
slightest idea what we were up to.  It was midnight before we pulled up 
with the gear in a lights-off slow cruise into the gated off parking 
lot.  It was quite a relief to not seen tons of cars there and ravers 
milling around conspicuously inconspicuously, but transporting the 
equipment the three hundred yards across scrub, trails and sand 
appeared to be problematic for just the two of us.  But just then <of 
course> a steady stream people (the other promoters, random passer-by 
ravers) appeared ghost-like out of the darkness to pick up stacks, 
horns, the mixer, the generator, the cooler, blankets everything.  
Yeah, unbelievable, I know.  I didn't believe it quite then either.

We go the gear out to the far end of the beach and had just finished 
getting the mixer, amp, and stacks set up, and had just fired up the 
generator when that icy sound of the police bullhorns cut through 
everybody standing there.  To make things worse, we had just fired up 
the generator, and the people standing right next to it couldn't hear 
the horns; near-panic slapstick French comedy style!!  But, all at once 
it became clear we'd have to hide everything (including all 50 of 
ourselves), and _everything_ vanished in a big hurry.  Stacks 
disappeared between two sets of fast footed movers, the mixer, the amp, 
everything.  The last thing to go was the table that it had all been 
set up on; somebody (thank you!) ducked under the approaching scanning 
police light, grabbed the table and ran like his life depended on it, 
_threw_ the table the last ten feet and dove himself into high grass.  
That produced a wave of stifled laughter that everyone was desperately 
trying to hold down. Tense moments, while the police car was only about 
15 feet away from 50 ravers crouched in the grass and shrubs <whew>.  
And, again, unbelievably, they went away.

Organization took hold again right there; Tim 
(thankyouthankyouthankyou) grabbed a flashlight and went back to the 
park gates to direct people to do blendo parking with the residentials 
up the hill and to use a darkened pedestrian underpass to avoid the 
main gates (still manned by self-satisfied police who had just busted a 
group of sixteen year olds at the other end of the park).  We posted a 
rotating sentry whose job it was to give us a flickering light signal 
that would give us 30 seconds lead time to break down again if we had to.

So by now it was about 1:15; we had a fire, a huge cooler full of free 
water and drinks, we've set up, and and were playing discs (awaiting 
the other turntable).  Right about then, the shock subsided and the 
wave of relaxation swept over the crowd (about 200, with more people 
appearing out of the darkness every second).  Kollaps brought the other 
turntable along with some brilliant slides projected along the 
undulating waves of still sand.  And the bone-breaking mixogroove 
started up, followed by that near-hysterical, 
I-can't-believe-this-is-so-good laughter that was kept up the whole 
rest of the night.  Different promoters and organizers working 
side-by-side, all outside issues completely lost in the freedom of 
blazing vibe!  Random passersby just walking up the beach dropped into 
our party and started talking with us and dancing!  People were 
wandering up to each other and launching into their whole life stories 
with these huge, silly grins!  And everyone took a turn with the 
warning light with no complaints.  We had _fourteen_ DJs (Mike Z, 
Bobby, Dervish, Kyle, Phil, many more than I can remember) who put hand 
to table, and they were _monsters_ , every last one of them.  And fifty 
yards away, the sound dropped off to a murmur, so there was nobody who 
could hear it to complain!

This went on _all_ night until 8:00AM, and just kept getting better and 
better until I thought we were all about to spontaneously combust from 
the energy cycling through us all.  And in the morning, with all the 
boats passing by the beach, we couldn't help but wonder what they must 
have thought of the 100 of us still left, dancing a primal ritual to 
the wicked, pounding tribal vibe, echoed by crashing waves.

Timing was completely on our side, for everything.  We even managed to 
pick up all the litter (including the firework debris left by everyone 
else before us) and pack up the gear under the tarps mere minutes 
before the warm drizzle showered us, welcoming us back to morning.  One 
person fell on a rock and got a minor cut, but <again, unbelievable> 
there was even a doctor in the howse!!!

The whole event was free, and everything freely given (even the cost of 
the generator got covered) but what we all received was immense.  Thank 
you P and K for supplying the gear, T & T for incredible organization, 
and everyone else who gave the gift of themselves to all, and the 
universe for letting this happen.   I can't thank everyone and 
everything enough.  Something great has given birth to all of us, all 
over again...

	Dread-Eye   ~<0>~         ...pleasure is a thing to be shared...

P.S.  Sorry that this post is so long, but I just _had_ to get it 
out!!!  And if I don't manage to do something about this huge 
ear-to-ear grin I'm sporting, they'll probably think I'm on something here...


----------
:~>From: "Glenn Fajardo,USA"  <netmail!glenn.fajardo@aldus.com>
:~>To: "Greg Richards"  <gregrich@microsoft.com>;  <nw-raves@wimsey.bc.ca>;
:~><sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
:~>Subject: NW FMR... Bliss!!!!
:~>Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1993 9:30AM
:~>
:~>I am stunned.  I cannot even begin to describe this most intense and utter
:~>sense of fulfillment within me.  The first NW FMR was as wonderful 
success and
:~>the vibe rolled over Seattle in a big thundering, awesome wave.  Something
:~>wonderful has happened up here.  And for me, life will NEVER be the same.
:~>

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 13:36:00 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 12:25:31 -0700
Subject: Badges

Why don't we have another SFRaves Picnic? There are alot of new names on this
list and it would be fun. We could also make badges again. Anyone????

Rox

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 13:56:18 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 12:35:56 PDT
Subject: Re: The NEW empire (fwd)

> i was talking with laura yesterday...and we agreed that cindy is r2d2...
> she is really smart, cute and friendly...and remebers
> everything...partyon...susie (:

And she can do 273 billion calculations per second and can project holographic
images.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 14:15:39 1993
From: rogerr@vincent.llnl.gov (    Roger Richardson        )
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:09:59 PDT
Subject: subscribe

I would like to receive your mailing list
rar@llnl.gov

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 14:37:37 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 13:14:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Brit UNIVERSE in Sonoma? (fwd)

if anyone wishes to check out Universe folk, sf dj buck played the Bath/UK
party, came back saying it raged & people were good.  contact him 4 direct
experience w/ Universe.

peace

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 14:41:06 1993
From: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Date: 06 Jul 1993 13:10:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: cult of cash

I heard today, coming with the release of the U2 "techno"
  album Zooropa (or however the heck U spellz it) that some
  or all of techno is actually a secret cult centered around
  Johnny Cash (culminating with his appearance on the aforementioned
  album)  

Whatz all this?

      "Reality is a sandwich I did NOT order"

                 - Zippy the Pinhead, 1984


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 14:41:11 1993
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 12:54:58 PDT
Subject: FMR- ouch!

the night from hell- refuted at every turn....

ok- here's my FMR experience- only it wasn't really an FMR
experience. 

I waited at my friend Gretchn's place for everybody to get 
their collective shit together. This was ok- minus the few people 
who had been awake for too many days and the few people who have 
started to take Gretchen's hospitality for granted; constantly on 
the phone, consumming food and beverage at will, using her 
apartment as a place for ExchAnging things. Needless to say,
Gretchen was not in the best of moods- totally frustrated 
because she felt that she was in the wrong in feeling resentful 
of people who were IMHO overstepping the boundaries of guesthood.

Anyway, it seemed to take forever for everyone to get ready;
about three hours of waiting time. We finally left in a caravan 
of three cars (and eight people) around 2:30- 2:45. After halting 
twice: once for gas, once for a rest-stop, where the police 
pulled over briefly (what a lucky thing that everybody's pants were on!),
we finally got to do some serious driving. Oh, yeah, that was only after 
one guy decided he didn't want to go; so after we turned back and dropped 
him off; we finally got on the road.

Of course the leader of the caravan insisted on going 80-85mph the 
whole way up, causing our caravan to slowly disband. Yep, after all 
of that togetherness, it was still the speed that drew us apart. 
It was just me and Gretchen, and we were laughing by now; it was a 
farce. Just in case any of you ever end up in the car with me:
here's a rule: Never rely on me to be the one to know the directions.

Ok; the directions we had said take 580 towards Sacramento, right?
Well, you know where 80 and 580 split; 80 going to Sacto; 580 to
San Rafael? I went the wrong way. We finally got off somewhere in 
Richmond; drove around for a while in an eerily quite neighborhood 
in search of a gas station and some directions. No luck.
So, we got back on the freeway and got off again, because if 
youre taking 80 south, you can't get on 580 north 
without exiting. Ok, so we finally arrive at Canal/Gerrard,
guess what we found? A road blockade being assembled; right as we drove up!

One of the cops told us to turn back, but pointed us in a different 
direction than the one by which we came. After having been lost for a 
while, I was just thrilled about that! Gretchen took out her frustrations 
on the cop by screaming "PIG!" out the window; I was equally thrilled by 
that, but the cops let it fly. We drove up a side road in hope of finding 
a way around, to no avail! So, we just drove home. **sigh** I guess it 
just wasn't meant to be **sigh**.

We thought about the Berkeley Marina or Candlestick, but we had no way 
of knowing IF it would be moved or WHERE it would be moved. ARGHH!

Got home around 6:30 and went to sleep. maybe next time....

Jocelyn 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 14:50:40 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 13:16:52 -0700
Subject: Re:  Anyone been to Pyramid Lake? (Need useful info)

pyramid lake is in the desert.  think about that.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 15:18:16 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:32:18 PDT
Subject: Field trip to LA next weekend and Pyramid Lake the 17th.


I'm planning on driving down for the LA "To-gather" leaving on
SATURDAY, probably in the noonish time frame, and coming back Sunday,
again, probably in the noonish time frame.  (I reserve the right to
pull over and take a nap as necessary so we all get home safely, but
we should be home at a reasonable hour Sunday night.)

Send me email if you want a ride, I have space for 3 more people.  My
car is fairly efficient, so total gas cost will be $40 or less split
between us.  Most groovy if you can make it to Mtn View to hook up
with me and/or you are along the outbound leg (101 N to 84 E to 880 N
to 238 E to 580 E to 5 S).

Yowsa,
Bob

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 15:27:50 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:49:03 PDT
Subject: gd mailing list


there is no "grateful dead's" mailing list in the sense of one which
is organized by Grateful Dead Productions.  there are lists which are
used for the discussion of the Dead, though...

dead-heads@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu
  essential messages only, to join, send mail to
    dead-heads-request@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu
  setlists, mail order announcements, vital news

dead-flames@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu
  massive amounts of traffic, to join, send mail to
    dead-flames-request@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu
  mirror/gateway for Usenet Newsgroup rec.music.gdead

dat-heads@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu
  for collectors/tapers of the Dead on DAT
  (note: also useful for DAT people in general, if they can tolerate
     a good amount of dead-specific information along with everything else)
  send mail to dat-heads-request@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu to join

Bob



From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 15:29:07 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 6 Jul 1993 13:51:53 -0800
Subject: Re: *SMILE*

                       Subject:                               Time:13:34
  OFFICE MEMO          RE>*SMILE*                             Date:7/6/93
"How do you feel about unknown persons making videotapes of you
dancing?
Sean"

     Well, from my point of view I find that being video taped by unknown
people is most irritating.  For one; we try to lose our inhibitions and feel
just that, inhibited, due to the "media coverage".  And two; This Taping thing
makes me think of mass media and and avertisements and <ack> TV which are some
parts of ones everyday life that one usually trys to clear from his or her
psyche while dancing the dance.  Lastly;  who wants to pick up a publication or
see a TV program with your photo(taped image) and a caption that is less than
complimentary.

     Raving is for those who participate!  Confront these camera people and
find out there intentions.  Personal memorablilia is cool, but we're not a
freak show to be stared at.

Keep it Alive and Thrive!                                  T. Scot



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 15:31:17 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 13:34:27 -0700
Subject: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff


Please excuse 1-hand typing...left hand still in cast.

Due to the past poor performance of Richard Sun producing "Indian" benefits,
i checked out the background to the Pyramid Lake Pagan Love Fest.  You
fellow sfravers can talk all u want about the new tribal culture, i support
the scene & all it can mean, so it will be interesting to see what u do with
the following data points.

NOT ALL THE DATA IS IN, BUT....
1.  traditional western shoshone leaders know nothing of this event
2.  western shoshone defense council knows nothing of this event.
3.  western shoshone currently at war w/ us govt, doubt they sanction
    frivilous naked pagan vision quests by people who don't understand
    the needs of a tribe fighting for land, tradition & survival.

i call on richard sun to publish his deal w/ the native people, if not
I SAY ITS BULLSHIT.  at worst he's ripping off both the indians and the 
attendees good intentions.  at best this is serious error of naivete.

peace,
alpha-10

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 15:38:06 1993
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993   13:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: *smile* you're on video

In-Reply-To: csc@pilot.njin.net -- 07/06/93 12:56

i don't really like it.  i feel like i am a visual commodity  , to be enjoyed
later. i feel dancing is about being in the NOW, so this filming does not
contribute to that.
take care/shalom/rave on
ovid

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 15:47:51 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: The NEW empire (fwd)

ok then sin... i will be chewbacvca, cuz he was brave, friendly, sweet,
and liked to party at that club, strange as hell,furry,  couldn't talk well
(well i don't write well)  and hang out with han solo (i could deal with
harrison ford) but i still think you are r2d2....with lots of
love...partyon...susie (:

On Tue, 6 Jul 1993, Vrave Crasher wrote:

> > 
> > i was talking with laura yesterday...and we agreed that cindy is r2d2...
> > she is really smart, cute and friendly...and remebers
> > everything...partyon...susie (:
> 
> Why does that make me r2d2? At this rate might as well be chewbacvca,
> Maybe susie is yoda. hehehe:)
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 2 Jul 1993, Lee Fogel wrote:
> > 
> > > Geoff declares:
> > > > 	You know the more I look at it, the more we are becoming like
> > > > 	The Empire in  the Star Wars movies.
> > > 
> > > And I suppose that makes you Yoda.  Personally, I always wanted to
> > > be Jabba The Hut...ooouuh...having a hard time finding a rave tie-in.
> > > I know, the Force, kinda like a luv phaser right?.  Nah, in the end
> > > they turned it into another missle guidance system.
> > > 
> > > - leg of eel
> > 
> > and we even have a princess leah!!!!!!!!(:(:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 15:52:23 1993
From: jon@lurnix.com (Jon Lebeck)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 11:58:47 PDT
Subject: FMR: questions....

I have a few questions regarding the last FMR (in Richmond?).

   1) What is the deal with all the nitrous usage?  Is it now common
      practice to carry tanks of the stuff in a backpack?  I also saw
      groups of people carting around those really large 100+ lb. 
      tanks of nitrous and then sell balloons of the stuff for $3.
      I also saw large numbers of drinking/drunk people around - is
      alcohol becomming a drug of choice (as nitrous seems to be in
      many circles)?
      
   2) The music was quite interesting.  Is a tribal type rythym with
      themes from the 70's on top of it now the music of choice?
      This gave myself and a few friends of mine (ravers from New York)
      quite a laugh.

Anyway, I've been out of the rave scene for about 6 months, and was just
curious about the various directions the rave scene is going.  I did
notice that the people at this FMR were more cordial than the last raves
I went to 6 months ago.

                             Thanx,

                                    Jon.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 16:09:44 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 14:30:37 PDT
Subject: Re: that last message


> >The problem is that "everyone wants to be a DJ",
> 
> Well, I would hardly consider this a problem!  It will make it difficult for
> some people to get work, but I never ever believed that someone should
> approach DJing as a way to make money UNLESS they find they are already making
> money off it anyway.  In other words, "don't quit the day job."

Right.  Anyone who starts out DJ-ing thinking that they're going to be able to
make enough money to live off of it didn't research DJ-ing enough.  DJ-ing is
an expensive.  (Import 12"s cost $10 each, domestics cost $6 each.)

> By there being lots of people with the talent and skill to spin a good set,
> the "star" mentality becomes eliminated . . .

It depends on your definition of "good set".  Maybe I'm too picky, but most of
the DJs with recognizable names can't consistently deliver a good set.  (I'll
define "consistently" as: I like their sets 8 out of 10 times that I see them.)
Maybe my logic is flawed, but I'll assume that if the big name DJs can't 
consistently deliver a good set, then most of the smaller DJs can't either.

> the difference between DJ and
> raver becomes even smaller.  More parties get thrown, the vibe spreads, the
> scene grows.

Not exactly.  Forgetting the DJs for a moment -- when the ravers start
going out too much, they start getting pickier and pickier (like me and Jon),
and each party becomes a little bit less special than the previous one.  The
way to maintain the vibe is to take some time away from the scene, go out less
often.  The reason the scene grows is that the number of people leaving the
scene is a lot smaller than the number of people who are being exposed to the 
scene for the first time -- the people with that "new" energy, which is where
a lot of the vibe comes from.  And of course, when new people are added to
the scene, as you said: more parties get thrown, the vibe spreads, the scene
grows.

> Anyway, my point is that "heirarchy based on merit" is a natural outcome of
> any activity that involves talent and skill, but I'm also against people ONLY
> seeing the heirarchy and saying things like "never heard of them, they must
> suck" which I hear out East from time to time.

I'll admit that I do fall into that trap occasionally, but I'm quickly broken
out of it every time I go to a rave and see an unfamiliar DJ playing a mind-
blowing set.

> Jesus, I'm sorry if I'm being annoying with all this posting I'm doing.  You 
> see, I've been on ne-raves for over a YEAR now and it's too difficult to get 
> any conversation like this going without it dengenerating into a flame war.  I
> feel like I'm *HOME* here -- even if you all *do* think 160 bpm is too fast for 
> dance music :-) :-) :-) :-)

No, of course not.  If the record was pressed at 45rpm, play at 33.  That
should slow it down to a nice comfy 118 bpm. ;)


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 16:14:02 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@nextsun.ins.cwru.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 17:26:15 CST
Subject: Golden Boy

WHOOO HOOO !! ...what up kidz...long time no rap...there were a few people 
that wanted me to put a pic of me up on the net...so...I did...there'z a 
pic of me and the love of my life on media-lab.mit.edu pub/ne-raves/
incoming...it'z called Golden_Boy.  :)

And don't be strangerz !

Rave on kidz !!

In A Wave Of Peace.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 16:34:16 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 18:05:57 EDT
Subject: cult of cash

SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com writes:
 > I heard today, coming with the release of the U2 "techno"
 >   album Zooropa (or however the heck U spellz it) that some
 >   or all of techno is actually a secret cult centered around
 >   Johnny Cash (culminating with his appearance on the aforementioned
 >   album)  
 > 
 > Whatz all this?
 
You didn't know that?

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 17:01:05 1993
From: Monica Tauriello <monicat@gandalf.rutgers.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 18:51:18 EDT
Subject: re: *smile* you're on video

sean asked: "how do you feel about unknown persons making videotapes of you
dancing?"

i am NOT into it ... i don:t like to feel like i:m under surveillance or
being watched by anyone, esp. if i:m tranced out dancing .... i also don:t
like video at raves cuz i don:t exactly want my face to somehow wind up on
the evening news with a fatty (not that i condone that sort of thing)

if someone i knew from the net, tho:, were videotaping and were not going to
use it for major media, i wouldn:t have a problem, providing they announced
it or asked first

monicat

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 17:14:57 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 15:48:45 -0700
Subject: Re: *smile* you're on video

My take on it is... I like it, because I want to have something to
remember it by when my memory starts to fail and I want something to
show my grandkids and others who weren't there.  I took the video tape
of the Full Moons to the east coast with me, and many people saw it and
loved it and were a little bit inspired by it...

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 17:32:10 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 15:28:27 PDT
Subject: Re: Badges

A picnic would be good.  Every time we have an event we all bring and invite
everyone we know so it's hard to figure out who's on the list and who's not.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 18:03:01 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 16:30:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Badges

>Why don't we have another SFRaves Picnic? There are alot of new names on this
>list and it would be fun. We could also make badges again. Anyone????

There are the South Bay lunches every Thursday, which get a fairly good
turnout.  This weekend and next I'll be gone (LA, and Pyramid Lake) but
if we wanted to plan ojne a little faryher in advance, we could even look
into getting a sound permit for a Saturday afternoon picnic, like we did
in May of last year...

	Brian



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 18:10:04 1993
From: amit@suz.esd.sgi.com (Amit Shoham)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 16:50:52 -0700
Subject: Re: *smile*

I couldn't care less if someone videotapes me dancing.  Obviously, I'm 
flattered if someone tapes my dancing because they think it's cool, and
if that's not the reason then I'm just glad to be a source of amusement...
I might be a bit annoyed if I saw a clip of my dancing in some "your
kids are on DRUGS" style propaganda/news story but I'd probably just
think it's funny, especially since I dance like a maniac even without
chemical enhancement :)

- Groove on!
Amit




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 18:27:11 1993
From: ebh@usl.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 19:35:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: NJ FMR reports

Sorry for the etiquette breach of posting to a list to which I don't
belong, but I've been getting enough feedback from the west coast
about our recent FMR that I thought it might be useful for me to post
here the two things I sent to ne-raves.  And, I look forward to
meeting you all when Eileen, Laura and I come out there at the end of
the summer.  Enjoy!

Peace,

-Ed     SLiP
        "into something more comfortable"
--------------------cut--------------------here--------------------
From: ebh@usl.com
Subject: Early FMR report
To: ne-raves@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 09:20:54 -0400 (EDT)

Well, it's' a quarter after seven, almost three hours since our
"viewing of the full moon" was put to an abrupt end by some of New
Jersey's finest.  The party continues as I type, right here at the
lair of SLiP, but I needed a little chill time, so...

It was tense right up until the sound came up.  I spent the entire
afternoon driving around to pick up equipment, all the while wondering
if the rain would ever let up.  It had been raining since about
3:00pm, but we decided to go ahead with the event since all avail-
able forecasts called for an end to the rain sometime during the
night.  As we were preparing to leave, it became clear that one of the
vehicles we'd need to transport equipment wouldn't be available.  This
meant getting everything into one pickup.  Once we got the tarp on, we
looked like a couple of Oakies with all our worldly posessions pre-
cariously strapped into this little truck.

We finally got to the site about 1:45, and a few ravers were already
there, reporting that the police had also already been there.  The
rain having miraculously reduced to a light drizzle, I got the sound 
going around 2:30.  We were visited by the police three more times in
fairly rapid succession, but our party went on unimpeded.

Mars and Darshan spun exemplary sets, and Laura was about ten minutes
from hitting the decks, when the police arrived yet 

[Pause two hours for a trip to the hospital - details to follow]

a fourth time, but this time didn't seem so friendly.  Laura and Chuck
had been doing their assigned police liason work, so when she came
back to the booth I expected another iteration.  Instead, she said,
"Everything's all right, but we have to leave."

Hurm.

Okay, so we packed everything up, and I was the second-to-last vehicle
out.  They didn't like me very much.  They asked me all sorts of
questions, eventually coming to the (largely correct) conclusion that
I was responsible for all this.  In our terms, "all this" was a rather
successful rave.  In theirs, it was criminal trespass, disturbing the
peace, and some other legal accessorizing.  This time, we were not an
oddity being observed by some curious cops.  Instead, we were hooli-
gans distrubing the beauty sleep of the residents of some yuppie-hell 
development that was so new it didn't appear on Hagstrom's latest map
of Somerset County.

The police issued me no citation, but my name will be given to those
people, should they ever wake up now that it's quiet, so that they can
press charges if they believe I haven't heard enough of this yet.  As
the nice policeman was busy not arresting me, having determined that
there was no promotion hidden in my truckload of sound equipment, he
closed with the sage advice that next time we hold this in a legiti-
mate location -- a beer garden, perhaps (his words, I swear).

So, we all ended up back here at Chez SLiP, and the beginning of this
little tale, which I now need to add was interrupted by Jetta and me
taking Mark (from CT) to the hospital to have an unnervingly large
beetle extracted from his ear.  He's OK now, but this was no fun for
him at all.

Other than that, everything went fine, and we can't wait for the next
full moon to do it all again!  (Whether that's sarcasm or not is your
own call.)

-Ed     SLiP
        "into something more comfortable"

From: ebh@usl.com
Subject: Later FMR report
To: ne-raves@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 21:05:20 -0400 (EDT)

OK, so I've had a chance to sleep on it, and my head's a little
clearer, so you are now about to be treated to more ramblings...

How'd we do, really?  I'll say one thing: This was *by no means* a
failure.  I just don't see it that way.  Laura, Eileen and I busted
our asses, and for a short while 50+ people had a really good time
because of it.  We have necessarily made our own jobs harder by saying
we want our events in NJ.  Even long-time ravers are hard pressed to
remember more than one or two events in NJ that didn't get busted.  In
places where any dipshit with a beeper can throw an event, there's no
challenge.  In NJ, where the authorities have made it clear that
insurrection of this sort will not be tolerated, we have an opportu-
nity to see firsthand what "underground" really means.

It means risk.  We bust our asses, and likely as not our asses get
busted.  "We are risking our asses to do this," Heather's flyer says,
and she's right.  If we wanted to play it safe, we could take the
cops' advice and go legit.  There's a VFW hall not half a mile from
here we could rent, and we could rave there until our legs fell off if
we wanted to.  But would it really be the same?

As I was driving down 78 to the site, with a few grand worth of gear I
didn't own (and a few grand more that I did), in a truck I didn't own,
I still knew that likely as not I'd watch the sunrise from the inside
of the Somerset county lock-up.  I decided to do the crime because I
decided I could do the time.

Every single beat that came out of those speaker stacks was a victory,
as far as I'm concerned.  I look at the way the cops treated us, and
it only confirms to me that it doesn't matter if what we're doing is
right or not, harmless or not, or whether there's any reason at all
why we shouldn't be able to do this to our heart's content.  The fact
remains that what we're doing is forbidden.  Period.  

I'm not talking about whether a site is legal or whether we're in
compliance with noise ordinances or whatever.  Those are just the
details.  What I'm talking about is doing something collectively
without getting anyone's approval beforehand.  We're undermining
the entrenched power not by what we might do by moving outside the 
established order, but by that movement alone.

"Independence Day".  Yeah, right.  Look what happens when a group of
people *really* celebrates independence.

We must continue with this.  I hope that with experience we get better
at it.  The Brooklyn crowd makes it look easy.  We get the flyer, we
come, we rave, we go home.  That's because *they're* good at it.
They've found those holes in the established order through which they
escape to where they really want to be.  Are we up for that on this
side of the river?

Last night was just a minor skirmish, a reminder that we're outside
the prepackaged, safe, sanitized-for-your-protection society we're so 
used to, whose only requirement is that we do what we're told.

So if some brainless yuppies decide to take action because we dis-
turbed their blissful slumber, that's fine with me.  I'll go to their
courts, I'll pay their fines, have a nice day, now if you'll excuse
me, your honour, my friends and I have another event to throw.

-Ed     SLiP
        "out of the system"

P.S.  Saying "thanks" to Laura and Eileen doesn't do justice to the
deep appreciation I feel for what they put into this.  Thanks also to
the gang at Chez SLiP for keeping both the place and the vibe clean,
and for minimizing our dollar losses with their donations.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 18:29:51 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 17:03:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

>Due to the past poor performance of Richard Sun producing "Indian" benefits,
>i checked out the background to the Pyramid Lake Pagan Love Fest.  You
>fellow sfravers can talk all u want about the new tribal culture, i support
>the scene & all it can mean, so it will be interesting to see what u do with
>the following data points.

The most greivous incident of the past with Richard Sun was the Cool
World benefit, where Cezanne (one of the promoters) claimed they lost
$2000 despite having 3000 people paying $20 (minus however many comps)
at the Richmond auditorium, so Cezanne didn't give anything to Richard to
give to the indians.  RIchard has vowed never to work with Cool World
again.

>NOT ALL THE DATA IS IN, BUT....
>1.  traditional western shoshone leaders know nothing of this event
>2.  western shoshone defense council knows nothing of this event.
>3.  western shoshone currently at war w/ us govt, doubt they sanction
>    frivilous naked pagan vision quests by people who don't understand
>    the needs of a tribe fighting for land, tradition & survival.

Actually I see this as a tremendously good way to educate people about
what is happening.  Perhaps the promoters of this party could be convinced
to hand out info packets about the Shoshone situation with each $30
ticket.

>i call on richard sun to publish his deal w/ the native people, if not
>I SAY ITS BULLSHIT.  at worst he's ripping off both the indians and the 
>attendees good intentions.  at best this is serious error of naivete.

Richard called me to give you his phone # so you two could discuss this
matter.  Have you two talked?  If you do it may shed some light on this,
and please report back to us, because this IS a serious matter.

>peace,
through communication,

>alpha-10

brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 18:34:44 1993
From: geoffw@carlyle.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:39:31 PDT
Subject: New Community space



	Mark Ameba is looking for co-investors to help in a new warehouse space
	near army & protrero. ( I think he is looking for about $400)

	If your interested call Ameba @ 750-9368


				- G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 18:44:21 1993
From: gwh@lurnix.com
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 93 17:04:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff 


>NOT ALL THE DATA IS IN, BUT....
>1.  traditional western shoshone leaders know nothing of this event
>2.  western shoshone defense council knows nothing of this event.
>3.  western shoshone currently at war w/ us govt, doubt they sanction
>    frivilous naked pagan vision quests by people who don't understand
>    the needs of a tribe fighting for land, tradition & survival.

I can't say much about 1 and 2, but the shoshone I know are confused
about what you meant by #3, exactly...  since when did this WAR start?

Peace

-george



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 18:57:12 1993
From: Monica Tauriello <monicat@gandalf.rutgers.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 20:34:29 EDT
Subject: fmr video

brian said: " i took the video tape of the Full Moons to the east coast with
me, and many people saw it and loved it and were a little bit inspired by
it..."
 A LOT inspired by it is more like it! i saw parts of it sat. night after our
fmr and it was PHAT!  you could almost feel the funky vibe thru the screen...

monicat

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 19:06:11 1993
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993   17:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

In-Reply-To: rmt@well.sf.ca.us -- 07/06/93 15:34

interesting! i raised some questions  regarding shoshone/paiute  people
participation with metalmau@... and he said everything was cool. what
gives ?
take care/shalom/rave out
ovid


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 19:07:49 1993
From: geoffw@carlyle.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:48:38 PDT
Subject: Re: NW FMR... Bliss!!!!


Congratulations to all of our nw brothers and sisters for your first
successful FMR may you have many,many more and may they all generate the intense
vibe that this one seems to have generated.


			Love

			geoffw

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 19:27:52 1993
From: John Turpin <turpin@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 18:17:23 -0700
Subject: sfraves lunch


I'm willing...

Lets do it..

Tune In, Turn On, and Eat X(tra crunchy potato chips)

-johnny t


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 19:45:59 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 18:13:39 -0700
Subject: Re:  Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

Sigh . . . if Randy's right about the Pyramid Lake event (and how then 
did the Wicked crew get roped into it?), and the other choice is
CyberCoolWorld(Not), then I'm prolly gonna stay in Portland that weekend.
I'll make up for it later tho :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 19:46:21 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 18:38:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

I'm trying not to draw hasty conclusions either.  Obviously, Richard is
making a statement by scheduling an event directly opposite Cool World.
I'm not in favor of promoters splitting into warring camps, but this is
a case where the distinctions between the two events seem pretty clear.

However, I will *not* patronize any event on Native American land which
is not completely sanctioned by the tribe(s) involved, nor will I patronize
events which claim to benefit tribes but don't in fact do so.  

But I will *gladly* patronize events which are in full coordination with
the appropriate tribal councils or other authorities.  As I've said
previously, we can both learn from each other given the right approach.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 20:05:44 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 18:50:14 -0700
Subject: Badges

A picnic at that park where we had the first one would be great! That was
really a nice space and the music was killer!

Rox

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 20:20:58 1993
From: rth@netcom.com (Robert Hughes)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 19:11:02 -0800
Subject: Re: bad promoters

>Sorry I disagree.  All those elements you listed have NOTHING, I repeat,
>NOTHING to do with the space.  The PROMOTER has everything to do with:
>Sound System selection/tuning, environs (chill space), type of crowd (after
>all isn't s/he in charge of promotion).  This nonsense about SPACES has got
>to stop since it is utter BS.  HArrison is an empty space, walk in there
>right now you wont find speakers.  The stone has a HOUSE system, but for
>every party thrown there it has been OFF.  Let Freedom Rave (of which I did
>........
>+                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com                       +
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As someone who has been setting up and tuning sound systems around the U.S.
and Europe for the past 20 years I have to say you seem to be missing one point:
the acoustics of the space. If you have very poor reverberation specs in
a room, (such as a large metallic warehouse which have about the same acoustics
as the inside of a garbage can), no amount of tuning can change this.
If there are parallel flat hard surfaces facing each other you get standing
waves and/or flutter echos. If the space is big there is almost nothing you
can do to mitigate this. There are halls that no matter what you do, what kind
of system you use, the sound will be much worse than somewhere else;
consistently.
And then there are some halls that are a dream to work in, and have a great
sound, and it seems that every system used there sounds good. I'd much rather
attend a rave that was in a warm, mellow sounding space than one with a harsh, 
cold sound.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 20:27:25 1993
From: geoffw@carlyle.com (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 18:47:02 PDT
Subject: Challenge this thursday!!



	Moonpup's party, CHALLENGE will be on this thursday
	following Your Sister's House.

	DJ's will be Markie Mark and Ernie Munson on 4 turntables!!!

	Mappoint will be at 1144 Howard, $5 (a great deal)
	they have the space till noon the next day!!  See you there.


			-G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 20:45:53 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Vrave Crasher)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 19:36:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: fmr video

> 
> brian said: " i took the video tape of the Full Moons to the east coast with
> me, and many people saw it and loved it and were a little bit inspired by
> it..."


The thing is, there are rumors that I was in the footage. I haven't even
seen it. I know I wasn't in the Bonny Doon one. So right now people in teh
east coast are pointing and freeze framing a pic in teh crowd to a person
that *might* me. Any one have the video that is floating in the east coast?



Cindy


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 21:07:50 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 20:09:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

>since when did this WAR start?

something to do with broken treaties, land grabs, nuclear test sites,
strategic mining, enforced federal grazing laws, people in jail...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 21:17:06 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 19:42:31 -0700
Subject: *smile* you're on video

I personally don't like it. I wouldn't want my boss to see me on 48 HRS or
anything like that. If someone on the net that I knew was doing for their
own use I wouldn't mind as long as it was for their own use. 
Rox

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 21:22:10 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 20:06:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

i choose to bring this to the net as only 2 weeks til event, and serious
enough to warrant public disclosure of plans or contact w/ indians.

have yet to speak w/ richard, but call is in.  more important, i know inside
of cool world fiasco.  not only was Int Indian Treaty Council disillusioned
by their first conyact w/ rave community, but they were simply dissed.  you
don't bring a basket of funky clothes to an official UN non gov org, one who
is all that stands between an indigenous prisoner and the outside world.
& richard himself dissed the native security folk, poor IITC volunteers
who needed the money they were promised.  most important, he broke his word.

i have heard from the shoshone leaders who matter.  there is no contact.
so i say, post the deal to the net, if there is one.  when i go to benefit
i want to know if the event is a benefit, or a token donation, or worse,
just monet to a middleman support group.  

if they weren't planning to meet shoshone leaders, and donate serious money,
maybe they will now.  but when you advertise ceremonial vision quests, you
had better realize who's traditions you are trivializing.

alpha-10

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 21:43:26 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 20:47:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

The situations vary a lot by tribes, of course.  But for the most part
in the Northwest, as far as I'm aware, councils represent their tribes
fairly well.  There are plenty of examples elsewhere where that's not
the case (what CERT did in the Southwest, for example), but if this is
an issue in the Sho-Paiute case I'd like to hear more about it.

At the very least I'm looking for more data to go on -- mere assurances
that "things are taken care of" will not do it for me.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 21:44:54 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 20:16:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

phred sed he wouldn't patronize evenys on native land not sanctioned by the
tribe.....amen.
he sed he would patronize events w/ full coordination of appropriate tribal
council.  in this case tribal council is US puppet, & no money should
go their way.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 21:59:11 1993
From: doom@leland.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 93 20:49:45 -0700
Subject: Re: FMR: questions.... 


I don't know why Nitrous is so popular these days.  You'd
think it would be too much hassle for a really sight effect.
Maybe people need something to symbolize being decadent
rebel outlaw drug users without actually doing something as
extreme as an hours long acid trip?

Anyway, consider that the Nitrous fans are not mixing oxygen
into the gas... at a guess, they're getting off on hypoxia
more so than inhaling Nitrous (which I only had once at a
dentist, safely mixed with oxygen.  It made me feel out of
it.  Personally, I preferred being nervous).  If you're into
doing ballons of Nitrous Oxide, you might want to try
holding a plastic bag over your mouth and nose, then breath
in and out until you feel dizzy or fall over (but whatever
you do, don't do this lying down!).  Could be a cheaper way
to get the same sensation.

There's always a little bit of alcohol around at raves,
because it's easy, and there's a lot of people who haven't
gotten the word that it's out of style.  The amount of it at
the FMR didn't seem that tremendous to me.  Certainly I
didn't notice anyone falling down drunk.  

My general impression was that drug use (including the
psychoactives) was fairly mild at this FMR.  

And yeah, I did think that people seemed pretty friendly.
Which all goes to show that you don't need to be on Ecstacy
to smile at someone.  


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 22:04:10 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (Insane Energy Woman)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 20:53:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Badges

and... to all who would like to help me plan:  I am willing, since I
am only in this apartment for the next month and since as it stands
I don't have a roommate, to use my apartment as a space for an e
evening bbq.  steve (mr spiral freshness himself) has offered the use
of a grill... and I have a deck and not a lot of furniture so there is
pleny of room.

any interest please mail me...

always, leah



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 22:25:30 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 21:22:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: fmr video

dearest loving cindy...i am the sinner who showed it to everyone at ed's
house after the njfmr...and i personally think that was you...but i
guess you will have to peak for yourself...either that or she looks damm
close to you...geoffe w appears manytimes..and i think a few others...oh
and taxi...well...i agreee with what brian said about inspired...i mean a
lot of people went "oh wowo" look at all the people..., listen to the
music, and agreed with me that i wasn't insane or crazy wheni said things
are differnt in sf...partyon...susie (:

p.s. i am really comming home on july 20th...i bought my ticket
today...nothing will stop me now...!!!!

On Tue, 6 Jul 1993, Vrave Crasher wrote:

> > 
> > brian said: " i took the video tape of the Full Moons to the east coast with
> > me, and many people saw it and loved it and were a little bit inspired by
> > it..."
> 
> 
> The thing is, there are rumors that I was in the footage. I haven't even
> seen it. I know I wasn't in the Bonny Doon one. So right now people in teh
> east coast are pointing and freeze framing a pic in teh crowd to a person
> that *might* me. Any one have the video that is floating in the east coast?
> 
> 
> 
> Cindy
> 




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 22:45:08 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 21:51:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: re: *smile* you're on video

i love pictures and video...they are a method  of documenting
history (entire discussion on raves as a social movement deleted) ...now
bad journalism is another thing...and besides i am proud that i rave and
invite the whole world to watch (mtv rave channel??? hehehehhe) me...i
have pictures from my adventures out east...most of them at illeagal sites
dancing...if the washington post wanted them...they could have
them...(they have written a few postive articals on raves) but we have to
remember bad journalism is bad...come capture my boogining booty on
camera...!!! partyon...susie (:

**SMILE**



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul  6 23:46:07 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 22:44:17 -0700
Subject: Re: free beach party...

looks like the party is set to happen at the ill-fated 1st location of
Xochipilli (those of you who made that drive know what i'm talking about)so
let the driver beware!!

tam

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 00:06:33 1993
From: Greg Crawford <gsc@wisdom.stanford.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 23:14:28 PDT
Subject: subscribe

	Hi.  I heard from a friend (laurak) about this mailing list
and would like to subscribe.  

			Thanks,
				
				Greg

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 02:35:55 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 01:06:22 PDT
Subject: tribal assent/dissent


One of the large differences between many Native American cultures and
Western cultures is their assumptions regarding silence.  In our culture,
silence is taken as assent; SILENCE=DEATH is a recognition that to dissent
one must be heard.  In many native cultures, where decisions are made
by consensus, silence is assumed to be dissent, making active agreement
of most or all members necessary to undertake action.

This proved disastrous for many tribes since, in efforts to get at 
resources, the gov't would force the creation of tribal councils which
would then control the disposition of these resources -- usually by
forcing an election which none but pawns of the gov't and desirous 
corporations would run in, or vote for.  Since abstention conveniently
doesn't count as dissent in our system, the land was "legally" taken.
All that was (and is) needed is to bribe a few people, something we're
good at.

Think about if our government were run under this principle: over half the
population did not vote in the last election, which would be a vote of
"no confidence" in the current government, and the machine would grind to 
a halt until people were presented with what they saw as real choices.
I don't guarantee that people would be any wiser in their voting -- but
it would certainly be interesting to see whether people thought the
Feddle Gummint was a good idea at all.

The more I think about this assent/dissent assumption, the more I see it
as fundamental to our way of life.  Stealth and sneakiness become good
strategies, since you can always claim "But people never SAID anything..."
I'd write more but it's quickly veering off the subject.  Check out
Jerry Mander's "In The Absence of the Sacred" for tons of good information
that _will_ challenge many of your basic beliefs about how you are living.
Seriously -- it's a mindblower; at least it was for me.

// g

PS: I got sucked into a really destructive tone with the war thread.  I just
realized how negative I was sounding, which isn't intrinsically bad except
it makes me look like a whiner.  In retrospect, I should have suggested
some positive possibilities that grow from my stance, but I got too 
bogged down in point-by-point infighting and the discussion has moved to
email anyway.  Well, it's easier to point to things and say "That's
really fucked up" than to say "Let's do this instead" and actually do it.
I will try to do more of the latter and less of the former, starting with
the news that it IS possible to run co-operatives of around 100 people
by consensus process, and that the ride is bumpy but worth it.  Any

(transmission interrupted by cosmic rays)

-- Disclaimer:  I am controlled by evil thought-transmitters emanating from
-- the planet Xapulon, and wish nothing more than to retract everything
-- I say.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 02:56:40 1993
From: mcorwine@comtch.computech.spk.wa.us
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 00:31:46 PDT
Subject: johnny cash/techno connection.

How could you be so foolish as to connect Johnny Cash and Techno?  As you 
can very plainly see, techno was invented by the 
Chinese around 2000 B.C., about the same time as gunpowder (well, you've 
GOT to have lights!).. "Strings of Life" by Derrick May was actually 
"sampled" from ancient papyrus scrolls intended for a primitive MIDI 
sequencer.  Papyrus scrolls have also been found notating the music of 
Altern 8, 2 Unlimited, and Utah Saints.  These scrolls are believed to 
have caused the downfall of Techno in China.  It was resurrected by 
scholars in Detroit and released as a series of novelty records (Techno 
sound of Detroit?  Ha!).  Unfortunately, these were taken seriously and 
the TRUE history of techno was left behind... 


--
mcorwine@comtch.computech.spk.wa.us (Matt Corwine)
IEAx for lack of a better name... (509) 624-0744

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 03:23:49 1993
From: simon@lsupoz.apana.org.au (Simon Rumble)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 08:31:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Visuals

Seems like on Tue, 11 May 1993 22:11 PST WLIANG@scuacc.scu.edu said:
: Have you ever seen those moving laser type of images they project on the
: walls at nightclubs?  Well, I'm not sure...but I think that projecting
: those oscilloscope images would work in the same way.

I dunno about it being that similar.  An oscilloscope uses magnets
to change the direction of movement of a _particle_ while laser
light needs a mirror...

Correct me if I'm wrong, everyone.

Also - for projection of an oscilloscope - I suppose it's possible
if you use a camera or something...
-- 
+-___----------------------------------------------------------------+
||___               "This House is Live"                             |
| ___| H E R M                             simon@lsupoz.apana.org.au |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 04:17:55 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 03:20:54 -0700
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....

A FOAF tells me that doing nitrous is definitely not simple hypoxia, and
it is amusing and sometimes wonderful in very occasional usage.  And it
makes loud techno music really sound great, according to this source.

btw, I'm sure many have heard of the *major* LSD bust in Bolinas a few
days ago -- it even made the NY Times.  I wonder if this means a bit
of a resurgence of the old E scene . . .

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 04:43:36 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 03:28:44 -0700
Subject: Melting Pot/Eugene, July 10

 
Yes, it's true!  The Groove Kitchen posse, in combination with Devoted of
Portland, is coming to Oregon this Saturday!!  I happened to meet Manol,
the Devoted promoter, at the Elysium event in Seattle on Sunday morning.
They are joining forces with GK to do something I had only imagined might
happen -- try to get some cross-fertilization going between the rave and
Oregon Country Fair scenes.  But instead of me saying it, let me quote
Manol's two flyers.  The first is a very nice trifold color but not
glossy flyer, the second is a simple paper handout (also, the GK number below
already has "general vacation info" on the Fair and mentions that they'll be
bringing all their sound and production equipment north).  I'm a little leery
of any event in a roller rink -- especially one next to a mall, especially
in Springfield, where the city council passed an anti-gay ordinance last
year :(  But the rep of both sides of promotion for this is sterling and
I expect nothing less than a great time.  It could be sparsely attended or
it could be massive, but I know the music will be great.  Too bad it's not
more accessible to downtown Eugene . . .
 
However, I may even skip out early from the fabled Oregon Country Fair
Midnight Show to do this one . . . And maybe next year (or who knows,
sooner?!) we'll have a little raveaction *inside* the Fair -- and that
will surely amaze everyone when that happens, hippies and ravers alike
(and those of us who're sorta both . . .)
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
                           MELTING POT
 
   SATURDAY, JULY 10                               EUGENE, OREGON
 
   Ernie Munson - SF                           Brad Vachal - Portland
       Spun - SF                                   Pasta - Seattle
   John Howard - SF                             Aqua Man - Portland
 
 
       Devoted                                    Groove Kitchen
  PortlandPartyPeople                             San Francisco
 
                           Melting Pot
 
                      An All Night Psychedelic
                      Celebration of the Mind
                           Body & Soul
 
                       Portland:   503.796.4696
                       Seattle:    206.998.1054
                       Vancouver:  604.891.5846
                       S.F. CA.:   415.267.3932
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
                           Melting Pot
                    An all night psychedelic
                        dance celebration
                       Saturday July 10
                           11pm - 9am
 
                              DJ's
                              Spun
                           Brad Vachal
                           Ernie Munson
                           John Howard
                            Aqua Man
                             Pasta
 
                           Light art by
                             DONOVAN
 
                            Location:
                           SKATE WORLD
                           (Eugene, Or.)  [actually, Springfield Gateway Mall]
 
                 *We shall also be celebrating
                  the birthdays of DJ's SPUN
                  and Brad Vachal, and Donovan
 
                          Directions
                 1.  Take I-5
                 2.  Take Exit 195
                 3.  Take Left off exit onto Beltline Rd
                 4.  Take Right at first stop light onto Gateway Street
                 5.  Take right on Postal Way
                 6.  SkateWorld located at end of street
 
             (also lots of info on the Oregon Country Fair)
 
    Melting Pot will be a psychedelic dance celebration located in Eugene
    on July 10, 1993.  The intention of this celebration is to provide an
    opportunity for all people to come together and experience the world
    of two of the largest social movements through the spirit of dance.
    These movements are the counter-culture movement which emerged out of
    the 60's, and the more recent phenomena of the newly emerging rave
    community.  The event has been scheduled on the same weekend as the
    Country Fair, one of the world's largest 60's renaissance rock, reggae,
    and blues festivals, for the specific purpose of providing the avenue
    for both communities to experience the culture of the other.
 
 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 07:58:05 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 6:52:22 PDT
Subject: South Bay Lunch


Hello SFRavers!

( Since Elizabeth Medel will not be able to post this weekly notice , I've 
agreed to do it for awhile , until she has net access again. )

Subject: Southbay SFR Lunch Reminder


Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
tomorrow's SFR Lunch ...

When: Thursday, July 8th 
Time: 12.00 noon
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (past apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Park in the first
  carpark to your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll, under the trees behind the backstop.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!


( I won't be able to make it this week , as I'm going to a goodby lunch -
  have fun!
				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com    )


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 08:16:54 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 07:02:56 -0700
Subject: bad promoters/halls/space

>
>As someone who has been setting up and tuning sound systems around the U.S.
>and Europe for the past 20 years I have to say you seem to be missing one
>point:
>the acoustics of the space. If you have very poor reverberation specs in
>a room, (such as a large metallic warehouse which have about the same acoustics
>as the inside of a garbage can), no amount of tuning can change this.
>If there are parallel flat hard surfaces facing each other you get standing
>waves and/or flutter echos. If the space is big there is almost nothing you
>can do to mitigate this. There are halls that no matter what you do, what kind
>of system you use, the sound will be much worse than somewhere else;
>consistently.
>And then there are some halls that are a dream to work in, and have a great
>sound, and it seems that every system used there sounds good. I'd much rather
>attend a rave that was in a warm, mellow sounding space than one with a harsh, 
>cold sound.


There is PLENTY you can do....damping devices such as sound carpets can be
used, along with other instruments to vary the acoustics of a space.  and
we are talking about raves.  Not concerts.  Most raves occured/occur in
warehouses where the acousitcs are for shit.  But once you FILL a hall with
bodies it alters the acoustics altogether.  Most large places have problems
with standing waves, stadiums are no exceptions.   Aphitheaters arwe a
differnet matter altogether.  Anyway what most mean by a bad space is the
things that have gone on there, not necessarily the acoustics.

peace


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped,indexed,briefed, de-briedfed, or   +
+  numbered!"                                                              +
+                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com                       +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 08:57:56 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 06:51:58 PDT
Subject: re: *smile* you're on video



	Home videos, e-mail archives, cDs ... even old magtape reals
	these are the "artifacts" that the anthropologist of 1000 years
	hense will be studying when they look at this time.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 09:23:51 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 06:54:10 PDT
Subject: Re: free beach party...


> From techno.Stanford.EDU!SFRaves-request@cdp.igc.org Wed Jul  7 00:17:01 1993
> Return-Path: <techno.Stanford.EDU!SFRaves-request@cdp.igc.org>
> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 22:44:17 -0700
> From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
> To: dhchung@us.oracle.com
> Subject: Re: free beach party...
> Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Content-Length: 176
> X-Lines: 5
> Status: RO
> 
> looks like the party is set to happen at the ill-fated 1st location of
> Xochipilli (those of you who made that drive know what i'm talking about)so
> let the driver beware!!
> 
> tam
> 

There have been successful parties there before... start LATE, 
and "don't dump yer cargo at the first site of an Imperial Crusier" :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 09:41:37 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 08:22:35 -0700
Subject: Badges

>I don't have a roommate, to use my apartment as a space for an e
>evening bbq. 

I was thinking more of something like the first sfraves picnic that we
had at that park in the East Bay. Because that way we aren't limited by
space and can be outdoors.

Rox

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 10:22:51 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (Insane Energy Woman)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:06:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Badges

I know what you mean by a picnic, I'm just suggesting as another
get-together we use my apartment.

just an idea

always, leah



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 10:45:30 1993
From: Derek Yu <derek@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 09:09:50 -0700
Subject: Re:  Badges


yea.. that sounds like a great idea...
we can picnic maybe somewhere in golden gate or somewhere in the East Bay
if someone can suggest a place...  and it would be an opportune time to
make badges....  my little homemade badge is falling to pieces.. :(


-Derek



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 10:49:31 1993
From: "Glenn Fajardo,USA" <glenn.fajardo@aldus.com>
Date: 7 Jul 1993 09:03:41 U
Subject: RE: NW FMR... Bliss!!!!

Thanks Geoff!  And thank you to sfraves for all your help and ideas in making
this happen.  Peace and love to all!

Tigger
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: gregrich@microsoft.com; nw-raves@wimsey.bc.ca; sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU;
aldus.com!glenn.fajardo@uu.psi.com
From: uunet!carlyle.com!geoffw on Wed, Jul 7, 1993 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: NW FMR... Bliss!!!!
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:48:38 PDT
From: uunet!carlyle.com!geoffw
Message-Id: <9307062348.AA05118@ carlyle.com>
To: gregrich@microsoft.com, nw-raves@wimsey.bc.ca, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        aldus.com!glenn.fajardo@uu.psi.com
Subject: Re: NW FMR... Bliss!!!!


Congratulations to all of our nw brothers and sisters for your first
successful FMR may you have many,many more and may they all generate the
intense
vibe that this one seems to have generated.


			Love

			geoffw


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 11:00:50 1993
From: Derek Yu <derek@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 09:17:03 -0700
Subject: Re: *smile* you're on video


cameras are okay, but camcorders are a no-no...
Whenever I see a News Report on Raves, it is always portrayed in a negative
way...  They somehow make everyone in  a rave seem like drugged out psychotic
maniacs...  I'm sure most of the video people at raves are cool and legit,
but its just that dangerous minority that scares the shit outta me....



Whenver a camera comes my way, i just turn my back and dance away from the 
camera..  Don't want to be in the evening news that badly...



-Derek....




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 11:09:21 1993
From: "Dana WATANABE" <DWATANAB@uci.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 9:27:00 PDT
Subject: Nitrous

why do people do any drugs? i just dont get it...
im sorry, but its hard for me to understand how
anyone taking Q can dis someone else for taking P
it just doesnt seem to make any sense to me

of course that doesnt mean i havent done it in the past
and wont likely do it in the future, but logically
it just points to an egoistical self-righteous
attitude that really contradicts a lot of what the people
would say about things otherwise

there's only a few reasons that people really do drugs
that at least i can think of

1-cuz everyone else is doing it
2-cuz it feels good
3-cuz it felt good the first time and you want that to happen again
4-cuz youre body will go into violent convulsions if you dont
5-cuz you want to expand your consciousness by blowing it to hell

im sure theres more
or maybe less

but if you do Q for reason 2 and someone else does P for reason 2
then how can you say taht Q is better than P?

i personally dont like some drugs, 
i worked in a bar and saw lots of people fighting
and it was mostly the alcohol that was causing the
agression to reach a physical level...
BUT, at the same time i ahve seen lots of people
get friendlier, more sociable, etc because of alcohol
so im not going to say that this is a worthless drug

nitrous feels good, it causes great visual and aural 
hallucinations and some mind tripping thinkwise stuff
in minor doses for people who maybe have to drive or something
and cant really be on a drug for an extended period of time

YES, it does have its downside.. i dont know ANYTHING that doesn't
(hell, even with Love, [which, IMNHO, is THE best drug of all] 
you experience a hell of a lot of pain and anguish
just to feel the few superbly excellent times that come)

drugs are like food (oh this is going ot be a real bad analogy
i can already sense it)
although i would not reccomend that you 
a) eat everything on your plate or 
b) sample a little bit of everything

you shouldnt say how bad the liver tastes until you've had some
and then had some again, and not just a little bite,
but a full meal, because one bit of liver wont really
give you the true flavor of it

i mean really, if you've only taken 100 mics of lsd-25
it is nothing at all like taking 500, and the difference
is so incredible that you really cant talk about lsd-25
like you really know it until you've taken enough that
you dont notice the difference when you take more

although this is not a good theory to run by on all drugs
cuz for some of them, the LD-50 is only 4 times that
which is necesary for the average dose

anyhow...
point being.
if you dont like whatever, because of whatever reason
thats fine, but dont insult people who do it
just because they do

 ,
dana

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 11:18:36 1993
From: Derek Yu <derek@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 09:31:39 -0700
Subject: Re:  South Bay Lunch


i really want to goto the SouthBay Lunch, but i do not have a ride...
Is there anyone out there who is willing to pick me up from Fremont??
My number is 505-9782..   give me a call if you can. thanks..


-Derek...


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 11:25:50 1993
From: gregrich@microsoft.com
Date: Wed,  7 Jul 93 10:00:35 PDT
Subject: Re: NW FMR... Bliss!!!!


Thanks Geoff!  May we all be blessed with more vibe than our mortal 
frames can stand (that's one quick path to tran(s)ce-n-dance!!)...

   q8^>

	>>D-Eye

----------
:~>From:  <netmail!geoffw@carlyle.com>
:~>To:  <gregrich@microsoft.com>;  <nw-raves@wimsey.bc.ca>;
:~><sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>;
:~><aldus.com!glenn.fajardo@uu.psi.com>
:~>Subject: Re: NW FMR... Bliss!!!!
:~>Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1993 4:48PM
:~>
:~>
:~>Congratulations to all of our nw brothers and sisters for your first
:~>successful FMR may you have many,many more and may they all generate 
the intense
:~>vibe that this one seems to have generated.
:~>
:~>
:~>			Love
:~>
:~>			geoffw
:~>
:~>

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 11:38:00 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:11:09 EDT
Subject: NJ FMR reports

The police didn't arrest or cite you, yet gave your name to the
residents? This seems illegal and a violation of your privacy.

If it ever comes down to lawyers, the failure of the owners to press
charges immediately will weigh heavily in your favor.

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 11:47:51 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:35:44 PDT
Subject: Moon Ceremony this Saturday


	Hine-Wirangi (sky woman) a Moari Indigenous Woman from New Zealand
	will be performing a Moon Ceremony designed to bring the
	people of all of the world's hemispheres together.

	This is a benefit for the Wailaki People who live
	in Round Valley California to help buy them a tractor
	which they need to carry on their Garden program (for troubled
	indigenous youth)

	In addition to the ceremony, there will be food and infomation
	on indigenous peoples from around the world supplied
	by the International Indian Treaty Council,

	This might be a good way for Us ravers to begin to educate ourselves
	on some of these issues.

	The program is this Saturday at 7:30 p.m. at the Women's Building
	3543 18th street @ valencia in San Francisco

	donations are on a sliding scale $7 - $15.

	(this may be a good way to charge up the luv phaser before going
	out for the evening)

	For More info dial (415) 826-4529


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 12:00:47 1993
From: Derek Yu <derek@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 09:50:10 -0700
Subject: RAVE WEEKND...


whoah.. what a weekend..  It's been a lond time since I did a back to back
rave, but with the FMR and the Gathering, I have to goto both events..

The FMR was great..  Great space..  Kinda expected it to be shut down b/c of
its Yuppish locale.  Good thing that did not happen until 6:30, where it 
picked up even more at the Berkeley marina..   And i agree with everyone that
the people were extremely friendly.  Met alot of cool people that night..
Even the cops were somewhat friendly and a little impressed by the whole
thing...  I saw a few of them smiling and just observing..   I bet if they
were out of uniform, they would of joined in...


I thought the Gathering was amazing, especially after the fire.  The vibe just picked up after that..  And yes, I was one of those foolish people who went up 
to put out the fire..  I grabbed one of those huge 8 gallon jugs and filled it
1/3 of the way.  
Everyone was all hyped when we began to climb that hill, but it was steeper than we expected..  About halfway, we were panting and breathing hard...  Then I
heard someone shout "We're the King of the Hellfire"  And that just stirred
us all and made us work harder to climb tha hill..  We're were all screaming
and yelling and i think we scared the security guards up there...  When the we put the fire out, there were still glowing ambers on the ground..  So we all
started dancing on the ambers..  And there was a warm heat that was coming from
the ground that made it even more refreshing..  This will be one of those eventsthat will last with me forever..

OK.. back to the rave..  When the music ame back on, there was just an intense
resurgence of vibe..  It was great having such a large and friendly crowd.  Thatcombination does not occur to often..  Another memorable part of the evening wassomeone sending out a marriage proposal through the lasers on the hills.  That 
was COOL....  The music was ON all night..  Better than the FMR the night before

These raves this past weekend has restored my confidence in the SF scene..  I
guess i came back from NY just in time...


-Derek....



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 12:09:27 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 10:00:15 PDT
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....

About the alcohol at the FMR, I think that a lot of people that normaly 
don't rave come to this event and assume that because it's a party, you
bring and drink alcohol.  They don't understand the etiquette (sp?).

The nitrous is all about $$$.  If you can score a tank and sell balloons for
$3-$5, you can make big bank.  It's a sure seller and there are many ballons
worth of nitrous in a large tank.  I can't remember how many a friend of
mine told me he used to get out af a tank but he would make thousands of
dollars with 3 tanks in the back of his car on tour with the dead.
Personaly, I love the stuff every once in a while but it does get anoying
to see non-scene people at raves and dead shows, acting like nervous, edgy,
greedy, drug-dealing jerks who have something they know everybody wants and
making a fortune.  Also, an occasional balloon is O.K. but too many people
go off on the stuff all at once and you have all of these people sitting
around in their own world, not contributing to the vibe.  Those are the
problems I have with it.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 12:11:27 1993
From: rpcaras@srv.pacbell.com (Bob Carasik)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 10:43:08 PDT
Subject: SFR party??


I agree that a picnic would be best but an early evening BBQ on
sombody's deck would be more that tolerable! Let's do it, like early Aug?

AstrtoBoy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 12:14:28 1993
From: "Mike Romo" <mike_romo@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 7 Jul 1993 10:00:19 -0800
Subject: Hot Time in the Old Town...

                      Subject:                              Time:  9:49 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Hot Time in the Old Town...           Date:  7/7/93
Well, I am kinda sending a blind note to SFRaves, since I haven't been on in a
while, and all I can do is send from this address, but here it goes anyway...

Too tired to do much of anything but sleep at 3am on Friday, missing the FMR, I
will make the next one....
(By the way, the Garth CD is rocking my little butt OUT in my dreary
cubicle--kudos to Luv Phaser productions!!)

Attended the Gathering on the Third, and had a great time chilling for the few
minutes I was able to sit down with all youse peoples, Pete, Niels, Mike, etc,
hello!  I had a good time, even though the fire was a hectic stretch of
eternity for me for a bit, but I got over it...it was just amazing that they
let us party on....cool deal.  I was literally blown apart by Spun's set....it
was the first time I had seem him perform surgery like that....he laid down
this heavy beat, heavy heavy, and then set down some crazy samples and drums
and stuff...messed me up...it seemed like he was trying to build to SOMETHING,
but he never got there, even after two hours...
It seemed to me he played a bit too long, I hadn't heard Jeno in months, and
was looking forward to hearing his set, but he and Garth didn't seem to play
that long...
And what is the deal with having Simon open?  Ridiculous.  that guy is
incredible, I thought his talent was being wasted opening.  Doran was pretty
good, I felt, and I would have rather heard Tony play longer (but he was cool
anyway)....
so many demands, so little ear drum...
It got pretty cold and dusty, my lips are still pretty chapped, but I had a
really good time...it was a really good group of people, it seemed.  Lots
stayed until the very end, always a good sign.

Well, that's about that. I am not sure what is going on this weekend, I might
just end up trying to go to the Beach if that it still going on (is it?????),
and I just found out about a friend's wedding reception on the 18th, so I am
not sure about Pyramid Lake, either... oh well.  Unity and Basics will be worth
the wait.

Oh, BTW...we are looking for 4-5 bedroom house for rent in the south bay
area...anyone know of anything in the reasonable range ($1250-1400)?

thanks, keep the struggle alive....it's wednesday.....

mike/wage slave/crazy man




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 12:33:32 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 10:58:33 -0700
Subject: Re: FOOLISHLY BRAVE RAVERS SAVE THOUSANDS - DETAILS AT 11

# I doubt VERY much that a laser used for a light
show would cause a fire...

	i helped set up toontown new years two years ago.
	there was a nine watt laser at that party, and i 
	lit a cigarette off of it at about one hundred
	yards from the source.

calirock


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 12:48:07 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:10:52 PDT
Subject: Let Freedom Rave

This was a fine time!  Great music, OUTDOORS, beautiful weather...
The lightshow was wonderful and the vibe was really there.
I could sure get used to doing this a lot more.

I persuaded Patty to come along to this one, and she was up and dancing
the whole time as well.  She hadn't been all that interested in raves,
but by the end of this one, she was asking about the next one we might
be going to!

I'm glad people got the fire put out, and yes, it was careless of somebody to
start it in the first place, but if they hadn't set off their fireworks there
they would have done it somewhere else (anyone who buys fireworks is sure
going to set them off somewhere), and it probably wouldn't have been
put out so quickly.  There were actually fewer fireworks here than at most
any event (of any kind) that I can remember on the 4th of July.





From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 12:48:53 1993
From: PLUI@iossvr.gm.hac.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 10:41:06 PDT
Subject: nw-fmr: thanks SF for the inspiration

Thank you SFravers for all the previous FMR reviews: pulgas, etc... 
Images of shadow dancing to police headlights, and other annecdotes like
the 16 year old who had to leave the may fmr to write a final exam provided 
the inspiration for nw-ravers to pull together and go outdoors!  I feel 
very fortunate to be part of this virtual community: it's working!

If you havent already, please read Tigger's and DreadEye's previous
posts on our first Full Moon Rave. They best describe the feelings and
emotions shared by most, if not all, of us who made the trek to
Golden Gardens (Seattle) on Friday night.

The fun (for me) really started early Friday night when BrianW, Renee,
DreadEye, and I arrived at Tigger's apartment to be greeted by one of 
Tigger's trademark hugs! He had been manning the phone (his number was 
printed on the mini FMR flyers put together by Dread). The phone was 
pretty busy, DreadEye was getting the maps ready and Brian, Renee and I
were enjoying a Thai takeout feast. We were all getting pretty anxious,
we left after 11pm, and with a quick glimpse upward, were blessed by
a beautiful full moon, shrouded by light clouds. It was pretty warm,
I had one thing on my mind "renegade".

We loaded the gear up at Dread's apartment and sped off to the site.
Renee and Brian left first, and Dread and I went directly to the site.
The black n white Dread mentioned freaked me out! Then another went by...
I would just look up to the moon and not be put off by the site of 
authorities. The moon was bareley visible thru high clouds, it had
rained most of the previous night... it did not look as though it would
rain tonight. After dropping off the gear (see Dread's post), I went
to park the truck, a few cars drove by, and I was very paranoid.
In a rush, I made it back to the drop-off point to find most of the
gear had already been moved to the site :) I picked up a table, Brian
and Renee had just shown up too, and we all headed down the beach to the
site. 

I remember coming round a few trees and bushes to the site, and seeing
about 50 ravers kind of milling around in small groups, a few fires
had been started. We had just placed the speakers and mixing table, 
and started the generator when the word of cops came! I could see 
headlights coming straight for us! The most memorable part of the 
night was definately the site of 50 pairs of BIG white eyes all
looking perilous for a minute, only to be followed by 50 big smiles
as the cops drove away :) (and who was the table hero?)

We moved the site down towards the water behind some tallish grass,
where we would be less visible should we have to hide again. It was
undescribably beautiful.

All night I was excited of the news that Robbie Hardkiss might show up,
Having never seen him, and not recognizing (m)any of the dj's that did
spin, I dont really know if he was there or not. Now that I think of
it, the music was all pretty damn excellent, whoever the dj's were!
(and for any interested, I finally did my debut performance :)

I remember looking up to the moon, which was now just a blob of light
behind some high clouds, at 3am; and saying out loud "think, at this
very second, in cities all over the country, people are doing the exact
same thing we were doing! It was a beatiful thought, And I was still
smilin at the keystone cops routine we had played earlier! 
we were now RENEGADE. I remember an SFraves FMR post (Brian B i think),
he mentioned a point where "if you haven't been busted by now, you
probably wont be busted at all" this hit me at 3:30 and i was ecstatic!
Tigger and Wiggli finally appeared and that was it! I was now just
unloading the planning/get busted worries :)

Orb had taken up a collection for the generator, i think he recovered
much of his outlay, unfortunately, he only got to spin a few tracks!

ANd then the boats came.  A line of about 6 boats appeared to have
lined up in front of us. 1 eagle-eye quickly pointed out that all
the boats had the same lights- THEY MUST BE POLICE BOATS! It was
5am, and I think everyone was surprised, almost expectin us to get
busted. So we quickly shut off the music....  Wait a minute, if 
they're police boats, why dont they just come bust us? 
BECAUSE THEY'RE FISHING BOATS!!! whoa... paranoia trip, but also
a nice break. The generator was restarted, and we were back in business

The final hurrah was when we were declared legal, when the cops
returned to unlock the parking gate :)

The gear was packed up, and the site cleaned, as the heavy morning mist
turned to light rain. I gave Dread and Tigger a ride back into Seattle,
we had some very enlightning conversation on the way home.
This was my first time raving in Seattle, and I had only heard of some
of the promoter politics in the town, but I was assured that we
had brought the house vibe back to even the most jaded Seattle ravers.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share this wonderful experience,
both Renee and I cannot explain how happy we are to have shared this
with so many fantastic people. Love especially to BrianW, Kyle <orb>, 
Greg <dread>, Glenn <tigger>, and Greg <wiggli>... I feel like family... 
I hope to meet more nw-ravers in the future.


pat

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 12:56:30 1993
From: John Turpin <turpin@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:20:47 -0700
Subject: "The media said this..."


I hate the media. As everyone knows, raves are a very positive part
of our lives. It is unfortunate that we are ashamed to be seen on
video at these events. It seems to me that we should be proud to
be seen at raves.

But would raves be as much of a controversy in the media if they (the media)
acknowledged them as a positive cultural growth. I think not. Please
excuse me if there has been some positive media coverage, but I have
failed to come across any so far.

I have seen some media coverage (mostly written articles) trying to define
our generation (in terms of avg age group @ raves), commonly refered to
as Generation X (hmm a small twist of irony here?) They are really trying
to portray our generation in a negative way, saying that we a trhashing out
against our Ancestry for leaving us with such a social/economic/environmental
mess to clean up.

Another thought...

If raves really are a positive cultural growth, then why do we try so hard
to keep them from going mainstreem? It seems that if society could actually
benefit from them, then we would want to share the "vibe" with as many
people as possible. I know the obvious response is that if raves do go
mainstreem then the "vibe" will be lost, as can be testified by many of
us who have attended "mainstreem events". So where/how do we compromise?
How do we spread the vibe without going mainstreem?

just a few morning thoughts brought to you by...

johnny t


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 13:00:49 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:10:51 PDT
Subject: Re: *smile* you're on video

I don't mind it, but I can understand that some people might.
If they do, they should tell the person with the camera so,
and he should respect that.  With those bright lights they use,
it should be really obvious if you're being videotaped.

I wouldn't bring a camcorder to an event like Let Freedom Rave,
the *dust* there would very likely land it in the shop for an expen$ive
repair job.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 13:20:21 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:38:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Visuals

	making words appear on an oscilliscope via control
	voltage is pretty much the same thing that drives 
	laser servo mirrors.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 13:27:09 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@nextsun.ins.cwru.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 14:32:32 CST
Subject: Golden Boy pic

Okay...so the damn thing waz a tad bit large...530k to be exact...so I did 
a jpeg number on it and compressed the sucker down to about 71k.  I forgot 
that a lot of you raverz jack in via modem link.

In A Wave Of Peace.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 14:14:45 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 21:11:56 BST
Subject: Re: "The media said this..."


On the subject of filming, though...

I've never (to my knowledge) been filmed, though actually i don't
think i'd care.  I'm not ashamed of going to raves.  If someone wants
to film the rave, that's up to them.  If someone wants to film me
having a good time, and dancing like a loony, that's cool with me.  

I accept the point that it's possible that a closeup of me might
appear in a media report which is anti-rave, or that someone who's
anti-rave might recognize me from some footage, but i've got better
things to do than spend my time worrying about things like that...
God, you could spend your whole life worrying about whether you're
going to get hit by a bus.... it's just not worth it...

	Cosmic Roy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 14:37:15 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 21:04:27 BST
Subject: Re: "The media said this..."



  John> If raves really are a positive cultural growth, then why do we
  John> try so hard to keep them from going mainstreem? It seems that
  John> if society could actually benefit from them, then we would
  John> want to share the "vibe" with as many people as possible. I
  John> know the obvious response is that if raves do go mainstreem
  John> then the "vibe" will be lost, as can be testified by many of
  John> us who have attended "mainstreem events". So where/how do we
  John> compromise?  How do we spread the vibe without going
  John> mainstreem?

I think you need to have some mechanism for restricting raves to the
people who really _want_ to go to them.  I'm not saying that it should
be restricted to dedicated ravers... I'm more than happy for anyone to
go to a rave just wanting to see what it's like and understand what
we're about.  But what you want to avoid is people going to raves just
because raves are fashionable...  Sooner or later, the bubble will
burst, the mainstream scene will die, and rave will be replaced with
some new fad.... then we ravers will be left in peace to hold events
knowing that the people there will be there because they really want
to be there.

Until then, the effort of finding underground events helps deter the
fashion followers, who can't be bothered to follow the underground
scene.  Unfortunately it's also very frustrating for people who're new
to the scene, and don't have any contact with it...

There isn't much happening above ground round here (Cambridge,
England)...  but there are lots of little underground parties, small
and friendly, if not exactly raves...  

I remember being extremely frustrated before i found them.  I guessed
that there must be *something* happening around here.  But i just
didn't know where, and i didn't know who to ask...

Small, friendly, underground, free, and often completely disorganized.
I wouldn't have it any other way...

	Cosmic Roy



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 14:38:28 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:09:53 PDT
Subject: Re: "The media said this..."

In answer to to this:

If raves really are a positive cultural growth, then why do we try so hard
to keep them from going mainstreem? It seems that if society could actually
benefit from them, then we would want to share the "vibe" with as many
people as possible.

I say that we shouldn't try to prevent raves from going mainstream because
it's probably inevitable, but we should try to have controlled growth so
that the vibe isn't lost by sudden growth causing a sort of "watering down"
effect.  If it happens slowly we have a chance, if it happens too fast,
were fucked.  I don't know how or if we can control the growth rate, I think
all we can do is hope for the best.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 14:55:50 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 13:08:29 -0700
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....

Hmmm... nitrous.

I liked Dana's post a lot, it made me step back and think (like his posts
*always* do.)

Okay, I've done nitrous.  I even enjoyed it, for the breif, "comfortably-
numb" high it gave.  And I can definitely see the attractiveness of being
gone for only a short time, and being completely normal within minutes (maybe
what we need is... LSD-Lite?)

HOWEVER

At an event like the Full Moon, where you are surrounded by the out of doors,
it just seems very much out of place.  Selling balloons for $3 is really out
of the spirit of the free parties, as are the multitudes of balloony I 
picked up the next morning all over the place.  And the PSSSSSSSSSHT really
got to me - it's just a really obvious drug, it really sticks out, whereas
popping a pill can be totally discreet.  Not to mention that if there were
cops there checking it out, the nitrous and alcohol are glaring evidence to
them that we are doing something which "should be stopped".  I dunno.  If
whippets were cheaper and everyone did those and threw them away when they
were done, it'd be a lot better.  

You should have seen the crowd of guys (and it's ALWAYS guys - why is this?)
scramble when I told them the cops had arrived - the carried the tank and placed
it in the bathroom nearby.  I saw a very similar tank at the security outpost
at the Gathering... hmmmmm.....

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 15:00:59 1993
From: PLUI@iossvr.gm.hac.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:35:07 PDT
Subject: spread the vibe/mainsteam

johnny t wrote:

>How do we spread the vibe without going mainstreem?

I think the vibe IS spreading, that is what i meant by "it's working" in the
nw-fmr post. I think its spreading "sideways", outwards, instead of upwards...

The feeling of _community_ might not be for everyone, the parties are open
so people can experience for themselves. I think it would be difficult for even 
the most mainsteam event to be completely absent of any vibe. And if only
5 or 6 newbies out of 2000 attendees can get a little taste of what things 
could be... then they will seek other events with more of what they liked...
or maybe they'll even throw their own! (positive growth IMHO).  
The other side is: someone might see 2000 people and multiply it by $20 each
(negative growth IMHO)

whether raving goes more mainstream or not, i think the backbone of the 
community, the dedicated, will continue to foster the vibe, and ecourage growth
in a positive direction.



patrick
plui@iossvr.gm.hac.com





From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 15:16:41 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 13:21:09 -0700
Subject: Re: "The media said this..."

>If raves really are a positive cultural growth, then why do we try so hard
>to keep them from going mainstreem? It seems that if society could actually
>benefit from them, then we would want to share the "vibe" with as many
>people as possible. I know the obvious response is that if raves do go
>mainstreem then the "vibe" will be lost, as can be testified by many of
>us who have attended "mainstreem events". So where/how do we compromise?
>How do we spread the vibe without going mainstreem?

Yes yes yes yes!  Wow, I'm not the only one who might have these hopes.

I think what we need to do is work on making the vibe so intense for the
people who already are inside it, that passing that along to coworkers or
family members or friends becomes easy and seemless, and then work on
making it intense for them.  Very little gives me greater pleasure than
bringing a neophyte to a rave, and seeing it CLICK with them (you can 
almost hear the synapses firing when they reach that point!).  If we are
unsure about what we're doing, the edges of our "vibe culture" will become
gradually weaker, and those reactions with newbies may not happen.  If
we try and take it too fast (like I feel the CyberCoolWorldFest people are
trying to do) then we dilute it.  The Gathering this weekend renewed my
hope that the concept of the vibe is NOT something only a small fraction of
the population can get, it's something with universal application, and while
there wasn't the intensity that a small party gives, I was deafened by the
CLICKing going on around me....

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 15:17:01 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 7 Jul 1993 13:51:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Spreading the Vibe!

                       Subject:                               Time:13:39
  OFFICE MEMO          RE>Spreading the Vibe!                 Date:7/7/93
Hey gang,

     The way I look at it, it is almost impossible to spread the vibe to those
whos tiny little minds will not even (could not) relate.  I don't want to sound
high n' mighty but in MHO those who rave and have ideals that are far reaching
and optimistic as opposed to those who are stuck whith the socially dictated
dogma du jour.  Those who have intelligence and individuality have always been
at odds with society as a mass.  However; we must do our part to break these
static social patterns and help society evolve to a higher level of shared
standards.  

     Wishful thinking ...

Keep it Alive and Thrive!                            T. Scot



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 15:24:09 1993
From: ROCKMAN <cmkoski@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 14:31:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sampler again...

Just to check up on anyone who used the info on the sampler... did anyone
buy the sampling kit???  And if so, was it any good...  Just checking up
on it...cause I still haven't bought one yet...  let me know if anyone
knows anything more than what I posted...


ROCKMAN


##############################      
########              ########   COME TO CANADA -- CHECK OUT OUR BEAVERS! :)
########     _/\_     ########
########  _|\|  |/|_  ########   ALL VISITORS WELCOME!!!
########  \ CANADA /  ########
########   /__  __\   ########   FOR TRAVEL INFO, CONTACT:  ROCKMAN
########      ||      ########
########              ########   @ INTERNET:  CMKOSKI@THUNDER.LAKEHEADU.CA
##############################



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 15:27:41 1993
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993   13:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: "The media said this..."

In-Reply-To: turpin@apple.com -- 07/07/93 13:00

well, media is a rather amorphous concept. 1st, there's the main stream media,
commercial tv, radio; there's the alternative media. then there's the
underground media. so the 1st is probably against such developments as rave
culture, since it originated with the people and was not thought up and
marketted by IT. it is also threatenning since it seems to speak of other
things than $, the only and last mode of exchange in the marketplace. also,
 a people bound by friendship and love are less maleable and less controlable,
less easily diverted to buy away their sorrows and pain. so, the mainstream
is to be distrusted all the way ( imo). now, the alternative media; well, they
seem to be made up of 30ish-40ish folx, still fighting the battles of the
newleft, but not that interested in spiritual/soul alchemy - it is too
strong a stuff, too turbulent. this part of the culture is slightly positively
inclined towards the rave culture, but it can embrace it only 1/2-way.
more likely it is unaware of its existence. finally, the underground media
is the media of the rave culture or of other allies (TAZ's): rainbow gathering,
e-b-boards, etc. we need to recognize though, as hakim bey says, that some
exposure   is HARMFUL to our cause ofliberating our spirits. hence caution
is in order. i had said this before: i suggest total NON-cooperation with
the mainstream media regarding the rave culture, and cultivating the alternativ
 and underground media contact.
take care/shalom/rave out
ovid

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 15:50:45 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 14:02:45 PDT
Subject: free beach party...

tamara palmer tells us:

>looks like the party is set to happen at the ill-fated 1st location of
>Xochipilli (those of you who made that drive know what i'm talking about)so
>let the driver beware!!

i talked to scott & robbie hardkiss last night and they say they
aren't worried cos they're starting late (not til after 2).
personally, i can't afford to risk such a hellishly long drive,
especially since i have to work the next day.  but if you've got
nothing on your plate, go for it.  if it goes off, it will be really
cool.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 15:53:32 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 14:59:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: videos

Since the topic of videos are coming up again, I was wondering if any of
you remember when 48 Hours was shooting their segment on LSD last year.
That really started a controversy on the list because one of the members
on the list was asked to be interviewed. And there was a fear on how raves
would be protrayed in the media. However,as i remember some of you decided
to tape footage on how you see raves. You brought film/video cameras at
Alternity 2. Right now, there are a lot  of people bringing their own
cameras to raves. Not to film just you, but rather the scene in general in
a very good light. Maybe one day people will put all this footage on tape
and be spread around on the positive aspects of raves. I know I would like
to tape some raves for future reference and also as an SFRaves archive.
Plus all this talk about video cameras, what about regular pics??? People
always take random shots all the time of friends, the crowd, etc. Maybe
you are in someone's photo album somewhere in the background.:)


Sea of Sin




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 16:18:11 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 18:10:14 EDT
Subject: "The media said this..."

Perhaps some submissions to editorial columns would be in order. Sort
of a counterpoint to the negative exposire.

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 16:48:01 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 18:07:15 EDT
Subject: Re: FMR: questions.... (Sean the Narc)

Mark Guthrie writes:
 > ...
 > Personaly, I love the stuff every once in a while but it does get anoying
 > to see non-scene people at raves and dead shows, acting like nervous, edgy,
 > greedy, drug-dealing jerks who have something they know everybody wants and
 > making a fortune.

That reminds me of something that happened at the FMR that really
bummed me out.

I came there with two friends. They needed to get back into my car so
I gave them my keys.  After a while, I started getting thirsty. I
couldn't find them. I started getting really thirsty. Went looking for
them all over but they were gone.  So I start hanging out by my car,
knowing they'd end up back there.

[Weird part begins.]

I'm walking around, looking for them, and this guy walks up with a
really intense look.

"Do you need something?"

I look at him for a minute. Something doesn't seem right. I didn't
"need" anything anyway.

"No."

"Then stop standing around here. You're making people nervous."

I couldn't believe it. My sense of reality whirled around a little
while. Then it connected. This is the guy selling balloons from the van
next to my car.

"What. Do I look like a narc or something?"

"Yes." And he walked off.

So here I am, standing by my car, being told to leave because a
fucking dealer's customers can't tell the difference between a raver
and a narc. I thought "Is selling drugs more important than the music,
more important than people having a good time? More important than me
getting a drink of water from my own car?"

I shook it off, but it took a couple of hours to forget about it.

I've got no problems with anybody selling anything to people that want
to buy it. I got no problems with people using, and I even like it
because I love to see people have fun. I've had some eXstatic people
give me hugs and it made me smile.

I just don't know how to deal with somebody telling me not to
something I should have every right to do. Maybe the next time, I'll
take down a license number and make a tip about someone selling
nitrous to minors. If someone throws some bad shit attitude on me,
maybe they get what's coming.

Okay, I'm mad, right now, typing this. Maybe someone can suggest a
good way of handling it?

Sean

(anti war on drugs, pro legalization, pro freedom, feminist, agnostic,
largely zen, pro human rights, omnivore, polyamorous, anti software
patents, anti subsidies, pro love (still looking for soulmate), pro
recycling, anti nuclear, pro socialism, and not a narc)


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 16:49:01 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:03:51 -0700
Subject: Pyramid Lake vs. Native Peoples


OK, i'm a bit pissed about this event, but also at the gullible naivete of
several regular posters on this net.  there are key lessons here.

i have spoken w/ Shoshone Nation Council, & the defense fund.  They were
never contacted about this event, nor are they beneficiaries.  The only
indians involved are the Paiute Tribal Council, in no serious dispute w/ US
gov over anything i know of.  in fact, they may be another puppet council.
they rent their land, promoters promise 1/3 gross profit....
promoters hope to gross $150K....u figure it out.

This has nothing to do with Shoshone struggles, or Paiute vision quests.
Wovoka is turning over in his grave.  This is money, sponsored by a Reno
attorney & a Reno radio dj.

i spoke w/ Richard Sun, and everything is not taken care of, mr. metalmau.
it is possible that mr. sun is trying to promote the rave ideal, and is
either incredibly naive, or just not a thorough professional.  it is also
possible he's bullshitting...i can't tell over the phone.  he seems to be 
straightforward in trying to tell me everything he knows.

it is clear the shoshone name was ripped off.  sun claims he only wrote
what he was told for the flyers.  it doesn't matter, the event ripped
the shoshone.

i'
im truly pissed, and for those sfravers too dense to get it, i'll spell it
out:  $50K for Paiute gov't puppets is not a benefit for serious Shoshone
struggles.  This is indian rave bingo.  (here i spit in fire)

The future digital world will be madness without blending the spiritual
traditions of this land.  native people can offer this.  in san diego,
raves of several hundred people happen on indian land often...no hassle.
whoever posted about learning from my friend gerry mander's book Absence of
Sacred had insight.  but u better learn respect first.

hiro kone,
alpha-10

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 16:56:30 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:37:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Let Freedom Rave

If you hate dirt for one 12 hour period, depending on when you arrived, then
you probably want to avoid a three day camping party in the high desert.  O
I for one enjoyed the dirt... it was soft, felt good and was easy on the
feet. 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 17:14:29 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:31:43 -0700
Subject: Re:  bad promoters

I have heard and agree with much of what you have said, however, 16th and
Harrison still needs to be cleaned, big time...energetically, spiritually
cleaned. Also have you touched the brick in the smaller of the two dance
rooms downstairs...crumbling.  There have been so many bad parties, so many
'gang' mentalities present...all of the good and bad stuff klings to the
walls, it is so thick you can cut it with a mental knife.  Throw a party
there.....even if the promoter is legit, kind and honest, it may not be
enough anymore.  Truth is, I went to a few really shitty parties before I
acquired the experience and knowledge of how to find the good ones.  It also
helps to find like minded people in the Movement.  Enough said on 16th and
Harrison.  

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 17:28:25 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:58:16 -0700
Subject: Re:  Fwd: SRL at "Ravestock"-style event in NM this August?

Have not heard anything.  Sounds like you said, too good to be true.  I
would love to catch MBM again this year.  I have friends in Albuquerque and
will ask them to keep an ear to the ground.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 17:36:27 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:07:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....



On Wed, 7 Jul 1993, Brian Behlendorf wrote:

> Hmmm... nitrous.
> 
> I liked Dana's post a lot, it made me step back and think (like his posts
> *always* do.)

i do too...

> HOWEVER
> 
> At an event like the Full Moon, where you are surrounded by the out of doors,
> it just seems very much out of place.  Selling balloons for $3 is really out
> of the spirit of the free parties, as are the multitudes of balloony I 

then so is selling glow sticks and stuff like that???

> picked up the next morning all over the place.  And the PSSSSSSSSSHT really
> got to me - it's just a really obvious drug, it really sticks out, whereas

"sticks out" you didn't even see the tank or the balloons at cII did you...

 
> popping a pill can be totally discreet.  Not to mention that if there were

"discreet" so is fucking in a bathroom stall...
that is no justification as to why a drug is better or worse (delete
conversation on drugs)

> cops there checking it out, the nitrous and alcohol are glaring evidence to
> them that we are doing something which "should be stopped".  I dunno.  If
> whippets were cheaper and everyone did those and threw them away when they
> were done, it'd be a lot better.  

i agree that they are a cop noticing device (at the njfmr the cops were
looking for alcohol...and all theyfound was some vanilla soy milk
(gross) hehehhe...when i am sure they would never have found visisbly anything
else...) btw aren't whippets cans of whip cream...those imho create more
waste than balloons...also a simple solution to left over ballons is to
blow them up and play with them after use...)
 
> You should have seen the crowd of guys (and it's ALWAYS guys - why is this?)
> scramble when I told them the cops had arrived - the carried the tank and placed
> it in the bathroom nearby.  I saw a very similar tank at the security outpost
> at the Gathering... hmmmmm.....

hehehheehhehheh
 
>         Brian

partyon...susie (:



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 17:48:27 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:24:49 -0700
Subject: Re: bad promoters

Interesting that 16th and Harrison seems to 'attract' certain kinds of
promoters/parties.  How many parties have you been to at this space? Also,
instead of bagging on promoters or spaces, how about a shift in the energy
of this conversation to find constructive criticism, comments, thoughts
about what really works for us and pass that on to the promoters.
Personally, I have now met many promoters and bottom line, it is up to the
ravers to make or break a party.  Most of the promoters do a heart felt,
bust their ass good job with our welfares in mind.  ..so, with all things,
we should go where our hearts call us to go.  Anymore comments on 16th
please email privately... I believe it would be wonderful for sfravers
attending Pyramid Lake to meet and talk 'in person'....I have other thoughts
on 16th and Harrison, but they have to be shown....or taught.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 17:51:24 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:27:33 -0700
Subject: Re: FOOLISHLY BRAVE RAVERS SAVE THOUSANDS - DETAILS AT 11

The laser never got near where the fire started.  The laser was lined up to
disect the arena and the fire was from the laser's point of view, to the
left and up, as I remember.  

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:05:56 1993
From: dionf@ere.umontreal.ca (Francois Dion)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 19:47:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake vs. Native Peoples

Beyond the ultraworld of Randy Tinkerman:
> 
> it is clear the shoshone name was ripped off.  sun claims he only wrote
> what he was told for the flyers.  it doesn't matter, the event ripped
> the shoshone.

I cant really talk about any of this because i'm very far and have zero
evidence with me, but:

> im truly pissed, and for those sfravers too dense to get it, i'll spell it
> out:  $50K for Paiute gov't puppets is not a benefit for serious Shoshone
> struggles.  This is indian rave bingo.  (here i spit in fire)

If i understand correctly, the guy dealt with Pauites and they said fine with
us. So at least half is correct... I have a feeling that they may have been
mislead by the Paiutes. Near here, there is Kanawake, a Mohawk reserve (Not Kanesatake, Kanawake) and it is very common for them that a bunch of people take
decisions where even the Long house dont know what is happening. When you ask
them, WHAT? A CASINO?, they answer "Never!" but it happens anyway. Now replace
Mohawk warriors by Paiutes, Casino by rave and Shoshone by Mohawk people (not
warriors) and you got the same situation...

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:09:20 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:37:08 -0700
Subject: Re:  Anyone been to Pyramid Lake? (Need useful info)

Elevation, 3792', terrain where we are going, flat, dusty, sandy; windy?  be
prepared for high mountain thunder storms this time of year, and down pours
of rain.  It can happen.  If alto cumulous clouds are forming by 9;00 am
that alone can signal anthunderstorm which can build to awesome proportions
by mid day (pilot mau speaking here); We will have access to the lake and it
is swimmable; port-o-potties willb e provided; drinking water will be
provided but I urge that everyone, everyone brings one gallon a day per
person..Come in survival mode..You are going to a desert for three days and
three nights and you would consider giving control of how much water goes
into your body to somebody else...liquid for thought; it will probably be
very hot in the day and chilly at night, a moonless time I might add.
Should be great stars....!!!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:13:00 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:05:40 -0700
Subject: Re:  Anyone been to Pyramid Lake? (Need useful info)

Before I unsubscribe (had 131 msgs this morning and it's just too much), I
wanted to get this message posted.  The following has been shown to some of
the promoters for I MAGI NATION.   I wrote this last month, please feel free
to add to the list:

Bring beauty to the desert and leave beauty behind.

Some thoughts and recommendations:

1.  Bring enough water for three days.  Even though water will be provided,
bring it anyway.

2.  Be prepared for high mountain thunderstorms this time of year, and
downpours of rain.  Brin an umbrella, or a rain poncho.  Tarps are always
good to have.  I have spent much time in the Carson Valley as a pilot.  If
alto cumulous clouds are forming by 9:00 AM, that alone can singal a
thunderstorm which can build to awesome proportions by mid-day.

3.  Brina good flashlight & extra batteries.  Remember to recycle batteries
at a toxic dump only.

4.  Bring food for yourself and food to share with others.  Keep your
electrolyte level high.  Only BLOCK ICE will last in the heat.

5.  Bring layers of clothing.  It will be very hot during the day and chilly
to cold at night.  Sunscreen is highly recommended.   The altitude of the
Lake is 3792'.

6.  Use only phosphate free and biodegradable products.  Never use soap
in the lake.

7.  Color is welcome.  Bring any banners, shields, windsocks, items to add
to the beauty of our tent city.  

8.  Our goal is to create negative trash.  Our aim is to leave the
Reservation, this beautiful sacred land in more pristine condition than when
we found it.  Picking up a beer can which may have been left years ago is a
good thing.  Also encouraging people who smoke not to litter the place with
butts...

9. Earplugs are recommended for light sleepers.

10.  Make a personal checklist of things you need or might need.  This way
you don't forget valued items, or tasks that need doing, like filling that
spare tire....

Other guidelines.  (this has already been discussed on sfraves.  These are
teachings I have received that I am sharing with you, nothing more)

Native American Culture...Most tribal members respect their elders.  While
on their land, it is important that we do the same and give every common
courtesy to the elders.  This does not mean that you have to 'buy' into
anything an elder may say or do, it does not mean that you ahve to literally
in your heart 'respect' somesone.  Know that there are rules and laws on all
sacred hoops, just as there are places for chaos and change (through our
favorite portal of ecstatic dancing).  Help us find the balance.

use of any teacher plants must be discreet.  While it is easy for many of us
to only partake once in a while, for many Native Americans, drug addiction
and alcoholism run high.  As always, when you share, do so from your heart
and a place of common sense....  Maureen.  

As I said, I will be unsubscribing soon.  Please keep me in the loop
regarding Pyramid Lake via email metalmau@well.sf.ca or call me at home
(415) 459-5334.  Thanks     --Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:13:46 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 15:25:10 -0700
Subject: Re:  Sampler again...

where can we get the sampler kit and how much does it cost? 
			thanx

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:29:01 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:24:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

Thanks for also being on top of this...I.E. getting a line of communication
going between alpha-10 and Richard....

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:30:00 1993
From: dionf@ere.umontreal.ca (Francois Dion)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 19:48:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Sampler again...

Beyond the ultraworld of Hoss Sarbaz:
> 
> where can we get the sampler kit and how much does it cost? 
> 			thanx

I am very curious what people do with these samplers...

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:48:10 1993
From: gwh@lurnix.com
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 17:03:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff 


>>since when did this WAR start?

>something to do with broken treaties, land grabs, nuclear test sites,
>strategic mining, enforced federal grazing laws, people in jail...

Like I said, where did this war come from?

None of the Shoshone I know of are more than protesting
and suing and being activist about that.  "War" is about
two orders of magnitude more violent than anything any
Indians I know of are doing about their situation.

One of my uncles by marriage is part native american and works with
many tribes all over the country on varius mental health
issues.  Regardless of the history of the situations which
have resulted in the Indians being where they are now,
their primary problems now are NOT the US government;
the problem is that they're poor, and jobless, and their
societies are to large degree disintegrating as a result.

Running around screaming "WAR" is inaccurate in describing
the situation, the Indian nations feelings, and in general
offensive to those around the world who are facing REAL
wars at this moment.

Both are bad situations, but are not the same.
Do what you can to end both.

-george



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:50:22 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:18:43 -0700
Subject: Re:  Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

Alpha-10.  Did you call the Paiute Tribal Council by chance?  I strongly
suggest that you call Richard Sun directly, leave your name and number so he
can discuss this with you.  (415) 337-4905  Hope you have the balls to call
him. You see, it is really easy to talk behind someone's back.  It is
another story to walk our talk and be ruthlessly honest to someone's face.
peace...   Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 18:52:34 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:40:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

Thank you for elaborating on WAR.  Many folks on sfraves might not be aware
of what you listed.  I have been for a long long time.  Also, this event is
more than just about $$ for the tribe....much more....

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 19:07:36 1993
From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 17:41:10 PDT
Subject: FMR ?'s 


>> Personaly, I love the stuff every once in a while but it does get anoying
>> to see non-scene people at raves and dead shows, acting like nervous, edgy,
>> greedy, drug-dealing jerks who have something they know everybody wants and
>> making a fortune.

>Okay, I'm mad, right now, typing this. Maybe someone can suggest a
>good way of handling it?

>Sean

Here is my idea, 

Bring a tank and give away balloons (ask for donations?)
One should be able to undercut the profiteers and drive them away if
they are there for the cash only 
Even a small tank and a free-for-all give away should last long 
enough to thwart the dealers ...

Also, if ya run the gas thru a water jug bubbler thingy it acts as a
real nice sound muffler - and this would please the folks who find the
tank sounds irritating

And, in the spirit of the whole thing, I recommend giving away orange
slices with each balloon - kinda like a fruity nitrous snack
almost good for you ;)

You could do all the above for < $100 which you could reasonably make
in donations if people are polite

Dave



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 19:10:11 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:30:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

I don't believe Richard is making a statement by having Pyramid Lake
opposite Cyberfest.  FYI, Cyberfest fought a hard battle to have that
weekend so they would not be opposite the Unity Benefit.  Hmm that is not
clear.  The Cool World folks lobbied hard to have the Unity Benefit moved
from the 17th to the 24th.  --behind the scenes FACTS.  Thought you should
know.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 19:23:27 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 18:05:45 -0700
Subject: Re:  tribal assent/dissent

Agree.  Everyone would gain much from reading "In the Absence of the Sacred"
by Jerry Mander.  F.Y.I.  it is not an easy read.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 19:36:35 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 18:01:51 -0700
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....

I have never had the gas, but I have heard that prolonged use can caue
damage.  Also never sniffed glue, but interesting similarities in ease of
access, method of getting high.  Personally I wish the kids a better future
like switching to Mother Earth's true teacher plants.....a prayer for the
day.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 19:39:28 1993
From: Harry Duran <hduran@umdnj.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 20:55:17 -0500 (EDT)
Subject: Re: "The media said this.<30-ish folx

I am somewhat new to the list, have been in the background scanning
from a medical university on the east coast and have been somewhat shy about 
posting, so this is my first. :) Hi.

Regarding mainstreaming of raves, I think that for the most part it would fall 
victim to the commercialization which gripped the rock&roll, LSD, psychedelia
era of the 60-70's. Now we have R&R rebel songs as sound tracks to
NIKE commercials. Clearly acceptance of individual diversity and spirituality;
speech and self-expression in the context of caring and compassion for others
is the message that needs to go out to the mainstream. Until our society is
restructured to value depth of character, spirit and beauty more than $$,
any underground movementgone mainstream will fall to corporate greed.
 Imagine "Aphex Twin
inks $2mil. contract w/ ...etc". 

>the alternative media; well, they
>seem to be made up of 30ish-40ish folx, still fighting the battles of the
>newleft, but not that interested in spiritual/soul alchemy - it is too
>strong a stuff, too turbulent.

Being 30-ish I gently say that we are not all in a time warp fighting liberal
lost causes of the past. I and several of my friends have been spiritual
seekers for many years and are attracted to the energy of rave culture/music
because of the mutual resonance and compatibility of shared perspectives. 
my hope is that this time the spirit takes, that in 10-15 years ravers are
more than wall street yuppies, that something truly revolutionary comes
of this beyond the empty sloganeering and PC-posturing that is so popular today among "alternative media" that the 60s-70s gave rise to. 

thanks for listening, I love this list, and peace to you all.

HD


he music is the greatest Ive ever heard, mind altering and danceable, and
beautiful; beautiful of this beyond  not the 



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 19:54:42 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:57:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

I wondered about the flyer which lists CEREMONIAL VISION QUEST. For the
record, people of all races and cultures have been going out on vision
quests for thousands of years, not just Native Americans.  What I wondered
about was what they meant buy that.  Most VQ's are done individually and
alone, and I mean really alone.  You do preparatory work for days, personal
stuff, you are then blessed and sent out in to wilderness areas usually
without food or water for days.  However, if you have thousands of people
and at some point during the night, the music stops, everyone holds hands
and we are asked to quiet our minds, to empty our cups, and from a heart
space, call in 'something' that would be a ceremony, a joint vision quest.

-Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 20:10:17 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 16:35:26 PDT
Subject: Re: Fwd: SRL at "Ravestock"-style event in NM this August?


Hey,

I can confirm (sorta) that MP and friends are not likely good
entertainment where raving is concerned, Mark P. said once in
my presence that he "hates music", [some of us figured this was
because it's his biggest competition, but I think he honestly
meant it beyond shock value] when I was helping a friend help Mark
automate some of their machines...also, he & his clan are rather
acerbic in attitude (and have LOTS of attitude, not nec. bad thing,
but...) and not the warm fuzzy types...cynicism is abundant in that
camp, and their vibe (?) is usually stand-off-ish to hostile.   Don't
get me wrong, I've been watching since ~'81 and I love it, but rave
culture it's not.

*

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 20:29:50 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 19:35:42 -0700
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....

Another problem with nitrous are the balloons, litered everywhere.  I picked
up many the morning after.  

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 20:50:42 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 19:45:23 -0700
Subject: Re:  "The media said this..."

Good thoughts johnny.  Speaking of media coverage.  I am in need of one
color photo, preferably a wide angle shot from a distance, of lots of people
partying.  Speaking of photos, I could not have been responsible for my
camera equipment at Let Freedom Rave, however, I wished with all my heart
that I had brought my equipment as the sun rose looking down from the 'hill
from hell' at the party...(I didn't fight the fire, but climbed the hill
before sunrise...steep isn't the word for it)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 21:14:16 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 19:48:13 -0700
Subject: Re: *smile* you're on video

I for one am very appreciative of the risk to expensive equipment people
take to bring us outdoor parties.  The records, turntables, speakers,
slides, etc. all subject to damage from heat, dust, dirt, etc.  I overheard
someone say Jeno was still cleaning his records...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 21:36:00 1993
From: randyb@kalpana.com (Randy Bias)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 20:34:24 PDT
Subject: SF-raves bandwidth.


Sorry to waste more bandwidth, but I just wanted to point out that there is
an awful lot of bandwidth on the sfraves-list these days.  While I do archive
the mail for sfraves to a separate file from my mailbox it is still a real
hassle to wade through 100+ messages at times.

I just wanted to point out that people should consider sending 1 or 2 posts
in response to 10 different posts rather than 10 individual posts.  It would
clean up a lot of the bandwidth (s/n ratio also) and make it a lot easier to
go through the sfraves list mail.

BTW, I'm not suggesting anyone stop (or even reduce) posting only that we try
minimize the actual # of messages seen every day.

Rave On...

--Randy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 21:53:27 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 21:03:31 -0700
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....

Nitrous attacts a predictable crowd of greedheads (nitrous greed and money
greed).  A FOAF tells me it's all because there's big bux with little
effort involved, and the do-loop on the stuff is pretty short.  But I've
also been informed that a better way to do it is to stretch out the buzz
and let it build gradually over time without letting it get overwhelming.

The stuff can be dangerous -- regular use is definitely a no-no.  Whether
it is clinically 'addictive' is beside the point, I've seen people get
way to engrossed in it.  Also, if you're gonna do it, please please please
make sure to sit down or have a comfortable place to lean.  I've seen and
heard of too many instances of blackout/falldown injuries -- it only takes
a moment.

I definitely agree with Bri about its inappropriateness at events like the
FMR.  Way too much commotion, and way too much commercialism.  That same
FOAF tells me it's the most fun with a small group who trust each other
enough to take it light and not get greedy in the inevitable refill line.
This FOAF is known to 'pack a balloon' just in case it's around, but never
goes 'on a mission' to find it.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 22:14:25 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 21:25:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

I already knew that Cool World had lobbied for Unity to move -- well after
most everyone had agreed that the 17th should be reserved for the latter.
Cool World is more like Insular World from what I can figure -- they
lined everything up and *then* appeared to present their case.

But I'm being judgemental based only on hearsay, it's true.  All the same,
. . . 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 22:30:48 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 21:22:27 -0700
Subject: Re:  Pyramid Lake vs. Native Peoples

I understand why you've taken sides on the issue of the Paiute Tribal
Council, Randy . . . but it would be helpful to give more detail about
why you think a deal between promoters and that group is not legit,
and then what *would* be legit for the land in concern.  Not all tribal
authorities are "in conflict" with the government, nor are the ones who
are always on the side of the angels or whatever.  This is important
enough to me that I want to know real details before deciding whether to
go -- you've certainly given some to start with, but I have a feeling
there's more to the story.  And what's the story with the Reno promoter/
lawyer connection?  And what -- again -- do the Wicked crew have to say
about all this?  Those are the questions I'm concerned about at the moment.

One might not agree with all the sentiments in the article by Rep. Bill
Richardson in today's New York Times op-ed page (props to the late
Harrison Salisbury, founder of the Op-Ed page and a towering figure
of journalism, who has just died), but this last sentence is indisputable:

    Only the tribal perspective holds the cure to the lingering
    injustices and poverty in Indian country.

The problem for us outsiders is discerning just *who* really honors the
'tribal perspective.'  And this is not a matter for quick judgements and
snap decisions.  We all get to make our own choices in this world, and
this is one I prefer to take some time -- and look at as much of the
situation as I can -- in the making.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 22:50:21 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 22:03:52 -0700
Subject: Re:  Pyramid Lake vs. Native Peoples

phred, i can't spell it out any simpler, especially 1 hand typing.
i have nothing against paiute tribal council, i don't know anything 
about them.  but the event is promoted as benefitting western shoshone
who are in serious fight, & that is not true.  there was no connection.

this comes straight from western shoshone.
hiro kone

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 23:13:50 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 22:00:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Spreading the Vibe! & Re: "The media said this..."

i think lots of people, maybe even *all* people, have the potential to "feel  
the vibe".  for some of us it comes more naturally than for others.  some may  
need a little chemical assistance (MDMA the most likely to succeed, from what  
i can tell) the first time or two - think of the drug like training wheels.   
let's not give up on "tiny little minds" so easily....

do we want lots of folks to experience the kind of ecstatic joy we do?  i  
think it's not only fun, but massively healthy, personally and for society.   
i see it as a wonderful (and cheap and scalable) tonic for much of what ails  
the world.  i hope all of the 5+ billion people on the planet who are open to  
it have the opportunity to get it.  (we have some work to do - probably  
harder to feel the vibe when you're dying of hunger or war wounds, no?)

will the [mainstream] media help?  my thoughts on this fluctuate, but my  
conclusion-du-jour is that the potential for harm is greater than the  
potential for good, so long as "they" are doing stories about "us".

seems to me the key to spreading the vibe is DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.   
invite friends - take them with you, one or a few at a time, and act as guide  
for the days leading up to an event, during, and after.  if we're successful  
at evolving rituals that are *so much fun*, these friends will eventually  
invite their friends.  bonus points for sharing the experience with your  
parents, teachers, managers, government types (including police), and *media  
types*.

betcha the 48-hours program on LSD would have been a little different if dan  
rather had himself experienced a full dose of ecstatic joy and community, say  
at a FMR.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 23:42:19 1993
From: Don Spence <dons@uop.cs.uop.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 22:47:06 -0700
Subject: ???



      Well, I made a first draft of the badges and I would like to post
      them on the SFR directory so people can look at it and give me
      feed back, but I can upload directly to that directory. I would
      like to know who has access to the directory and who I should
      speak to about putting the files in the directory. And if I am
      just not doing it right, then I would appreciate it if someone
      could tell me what I am doing wrong.

				Peace,

				Don Spence
				dons@uop.edu

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul  7 23:53:20 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 22:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Let Freedom Rave

On Wed, 7 Jul 1993, Maureen Garrett wrote:

> If you hate dirt for one 12 hour period, depending on when you arrived, then
> you probably want to avoid a three day camping party in the high desert.  O
> I for one enjoyed the dirt... it was soft, felt good and was easy on the
> feet. 

Three days of camping on Native American land sounds much more appealing
than 12 hours on a motorcycle race track in Livermore.  I am very much
looking forward to the Pyramid Lake event, despite the dirt.  And
there's a lake, too!
					
//////////{{{{{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<<232>>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 00:14:06 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jul 1993 22:58:24 -0700
Subject: Solution? to tribal ripoff?


Have had long conversations w/ R Sun.  He admits shoshone struggle was
not to benefit from event.  he admits that was wrong.  we both agree there
is nothing wrong w/ Paiutes renting their land.

he said he would try & right this wrong, offering a $5K payment to
traditional shoshone thru chief of western shoshone.  then he said he
wouldn't try to do it, he would just *do* it.

i don't know if money backers will agree.  i hope he can come to successful
agreement w/ shoshone...only that will satisfy me.  i also suggested he
get paiute leader to speak directly w/ shoshone headman.

let's get something straight here.  this is promoted on cover of flyer
only as imagination event....r sun.  on back is added others including
wicked.  i contacted the supposed benefitees because it didn't seem true or
aboveboard.  it turned out my suspicions were correct.

there may be money backers as posted earlier, but richard has responsibility
here.  he claims to be doing this to further house movement.  now he has the
chance to make good that claim.

he has promised to keep me informed, including details of any deal.
i wish him success.

enjoy pyr lake if u choose, but know it is not a benefit for shoshone unless
richard comes thru publicly, & shoshone agree.  if that happens, this will
be a new bridge for rave culture.

hiro kone

(one reason we spoke was the threat of bad publicity by me stirring it up.
the other was brian.  thank you, brian.)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 00:42:59 1993
From: hypermark@aol.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 02:24:46 EDT
Subject: RAVES

Please add me to your mailing list for any upcoming parties
Thanks!    


Hyper

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 02:19:04 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:42:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: congressional hearing on-line (fwd)

Forwarded message:
From <@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU:owner-seraves@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU> Wed Jul  7 12:55:00 1993
From: "Wendy M. Cown" <wendy@PENGUIN.GATECH.EDU>
Date:         Tue, 6 Jul 1993 12:12:28 -0500
Subject:      congressional hearing on-line

I got this from the cypherpunk mailing list and thought those of you
out in freakcyberspace might be interested.  Get that mail to the
congress!

ian

[6484]  daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (hearing-info@trystero.malamud.com)
 Commercialization & Privatization of the Internet 07/05/93 14:27 (70 lines)
Subject: On-Line Congressional Hearing
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 14:28:25 -0400
Reply-To: hearing-info@trystero.malamud.com

Station: Internet Multicasting Service
Channel: Internet Town Hall
Program: On-Line Congressional Hearing
Release: July 5, 1993
Content: First Announcement/On-Line Congressional Hearing

     On July 26 at 9:30AM EDT, the Subcommittee on Telecommunications
and Finance of the U.S. House of Representatives will hold the first
Congressional Hearing ever held over a computer network.  The oversight
hearing on "The Role of Government in Cyberspace" will take place in
the Grand Ballroom of the National Press Club at 14th and F Streets,
N.W., Washington, D.C.  The hearing is open to the public. An open
house will be held from 3-5PM on the same day in the same location and
is also open to the public.

     Chairman Markey has asked that this historic occasion demonstrate
the potential and diversity of the global Internet.  Thirty Sparcstations
will be in the hearing room, allowing members of Congress, staff, and
their guests to read e-mail, use Gopher menus, read testimony in WAIS
databases, browse the World Wide Web, and otherwise use the resources
of the global Internet as part of the hearing.

     Some witnesses for the hearing will testify remotely, sending audio
and video over the Internet.  Audio and video of the hearing will also
be multicast over the Multicast Backbone (MBONE).  We are hoping that
C-SPAN and other traditional media will also carry the event.  *MORE
DETAILS ON MBONE AND OTHER WAYS TO WATCH THE HEARINGS REMOTELY WILL BE
FORTHCOMING SHORTLY.*

     One of the primary points that we are hoping to demonstrate is
the diversity and size of the Internet.  We have therefore established
an electronic mail address by which people on the Internet can communicate
with the Subcommittee before and during the hearing:

          congress@town.hall.org

     We encourage you to send your comments on what the role of government
should be in the information age to this address.  Your comments to this
address will be made part of the public record of the hearing.  Feel free
to carry on a dialogue with others on a mailing list, cc'ing the e-mail
address.

     Your cards and letters to congress@town.hall.org will help
demonstrate that there are people who use the Internet as part of their
personal and professional lives.  We encourage you to send comments on
the role of government in cyberspace, on what role cyberspace should play
in government (e.g., whether government data be made available on the
Internet), on how the Internet should be built and financed, on how you
use the Internet, and on any other topic you feel is appropriate.  This
is your chance to show the U.S. Congress that there is a constituency
that cares about this global infrastructure.

     If you would like to communicate with a human being about the
hearing, you may send your comments and questions to:

          hearing-info@town.hall.org

     Support for the Internet Town Hall is provided by Sun Microsystems
and O'Reilly & Associates.  Additional support for the July 26 on-line
congressional hearing is being provided by ARPA, BBN Communications,
the National Press Club, Xerox PARC, and many other organizations.

     Network connectivity for the Internet Town Hall is provided by
UUNET Technologies.

- --[6484]--



--
Wendy Cown                                      wendy@penguin.gatech.edu
              home 873-4563     office 894-4474
        "Leaving in utter disgust is not the same thing as apathy," Slacker
Georgia Institute of Technology, School of Physics, Box 30182, Atlanta, Georgia
                                                                        30332


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 03:27:15 1993
From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 10:44:07 GMT
Subject: It's a gas!

> 
> I have to be sure, as I'm sure you'll agree is sensible with 'tings like
> gases. Is the Nitrous of which yer all talkin' Nitrous Oxide (Laughing gas!).
> 
> Seems in the uk all floating ballooons are filled with Helium, funny but
> not half as funny as... hoah, ha ha ha ha, excuse me, he he he he hoah haha
> ha ha he ha he, wha har-har-har-har, aghh me ribs, mon! Laughing Gas.
> 
> Wiping tears from my eyes!
> 
> Miles
> 


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 04:52:11 1993
From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 11:49:44 GMT
Subject: Tribal Support

Yestreday an Incident took place in Central London that made the National
TV News all day.

17 anti nuclear test folk ( I don't remember the name), managed to scale
the walls of Buckingham Palace and gain entry to the compound despite millions
being spent just recently to improve security even more. (reaction to last
intruder)

These people, mainly from my home town Bristol UK, unfurled banners and
chanted slogans protesting against British nuclear weopons testing in the
Nevada desert.

Their main protest was the effect this was having on the local (Red Indian)
tribe there and the suffering and disease brought upon them by these tests.
Again I can't remember whick tribe/group they were standing up for.

Thought you may like to know that support for these people made the
Headlines over here.

I find the old american cultures most interesting, I have a t-shirt on
with the original dollar bill on the back featuring a Tribal Chief rather than
that Washington white man.

The hippest club in Bristol is named LaKota which is American Indian word for
a meeting point or gathering of the tribes.

Miles

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 05:35:57 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 8 Jul 1993 04:42:18 -0700
Subject: Re:  Solution? to tribal ripoff?

Thanks Randy, and Maureen (who I had a long landline talk with tonight)
and Brian.  Even if this isn't working out perfectly we're a long way
in the right direction.  As always, we will see if actions follow
intentions, but I'm willing to give this a try.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 06:10:24 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 12:23:26 BST
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....


  Partyon> i agree that they are a cop noticing device (at the njfmr
  Partyon> the cops were looking for alcohol...and all theyfound was
  Partyon> some vanilla soy milk (gross) hehehhe...when i am sure they
  Partyon> would never have found visisbly anything else...) btw
  Partyon> aren't whippets cans of whip cream...those imho create more
  Partyon> waste than balloons...also a simple solution to left over
  Partyon> ballons is to blow them up and play with them after use...)
 
I don't understand all this obsession the cops have with alcohol...
maimstream society understands alcohol, they don't think of it as a
drug.  Hell, it's even *legal*.

Though from reading this list it sounds like prohibition... what's the
deal here..?  What are the cops going to do.. accuse you of possesion
of a *legal* substance?

	roy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 08:22:55 1993
From: STUDENT@deans-row.lakeheadu.ca
Date: 8 Jul 93 09:09:18 EST
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe me

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 10:54:12 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 10:48:02 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: *smile* you're on video

> I for one am very appreciative of the risk to expensive equipment people
> take to bring us outdoor parties.  The records, turntables, speakers,
> slides, etc. all subject to damage from heat, dust, dirt, etc.  I overheard
> someone say Jeno was still cleaning his records...

I had a good coating of dust all over everything after Solstice.  Nothing that
a wet cloth couldn't clean though.  Maybe it is time for someone to bring back
the Ronco Record Vac.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 11:13:07 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 11:07:49 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Yeah, but THIRTY BUCKS?

I am really wondering why Pyramid Lake is costing $30.  Let's see, here's how
much outdoor events cost me:

Generator: $60 a night
Sound: $100 a night

Hmmm.. Not much else.  Even if I wanted to rent a completely killer sound
system, lights, and a van to tow everything out, I can't see it going over
$800 a night for everything.  Maybe this is just deflated Utah prices, but
even if you figure $5000 a night, you'd only need 170 people a night to break
even at $30 a pop.

Are the promoters really spending this amount?  Why the emphasis on bringing
your own camping gear?  Where is the money going?  It amazes me that anyone
would charge this much, let alone anything for an _outdoor_ event.  On top of
that, it also makes me a bit irked that Wicked and supposedly PTV now signed
up for Pyramid Lake immediately when they didn't even take the time to say
"no" to me when I contacted them regarding Solstice.

No offense to Maureen, but your continual barrage of "commune with nature"
messages are ridiculous in the light that the "communing" will cost $30.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 12:06:48 1993
From: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Date: 08 Jul 1993 10:41:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Marching in the Band(width)

How about adopting a 'packed' philosophy aka the grateful dead bulletin
  board, where lotsa small messages get corralled into one big one which
  comes out 3-4 times per day?  (maybe even with a subject index)

I don't know where the guru will come from to wrang that thang together,
  but it might make people's mailbags smaller (at least from the table
  of contents' point of view)

Dave Scruton "Celtic Warrior"
Hughes Aircraft

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 12:16:59 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 10:10:51 PDT
Subject: Re: Nitrous 

>This is a hard crime to bust me on, since the only drugs I'd
>had that night were a can of Pepsi and some chocalate.
>Sorry if my light caffiene use makes me seem like a
>hypocrite, but I really am trying to cut down on even that,
>and I wouldn't recommend that anyone get started on
>caffiene, either. 

or chocolate... (thats for laura)
or any of the other drugs that this society says are necesary
(aspirin is the anti-christ...
and it halts spermatogenesis and causes chromosomal damage)

>"I like my consciousness just fine, why would I want to mess
>with it artificially?")

damn good question...
damn good... 
i could probably come up with a hundred answers taht
wouldnt satisfy most people who asked that question

but a lot of those same people take pain killers,
or other things to alter their conscioussness so that they
dont have to deal with whatever problem
yet the government and your doctor insist its different

>one of the main reasons I'm down on the
>Nitrous folks is that it just isn't _discrete_ enough to
>want to have massive numbers of people doing in public.  

i agree...
its not discrete, it loud, and a tank isnt really hidable
(although susie brought up a great point about CII)

even the little one balloon dischargers are LOUD 
but having a bunch of people wlaking around with balloons
is a REALLY festive atmosphere, whether they are filled
with air, helium, n2o, or even h2o...

 ,
dana

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 12:21:04 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 8 Jul 1993 11:17:57 -0700
Subject: Re:  Tribal Support

The native people whose land became the test site include, significantly, 
the very shoshone whose purported rave benefit generated so much $%^&* on
the net.  amazing synchronicity...the palace protest of brit testing on
shoshone land.

Lakota is true name for all nations we call Sioux, does not neccessarily
mean meeting point.

alpha-10

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 12:52:27 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 11:41:00 PDT
Subject: Marching in the Band(width)


I personally don't like digestified lists, it makes it harder to have
a dialog.  I firmly believe that we can solve all of the problems of
this list by applying a little common sense to the situation, rather
than going for a "solution" which forces a different style of
communication than the one we're used to.

yowsa,
Bob


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 12:58:55 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 19:37:24 BST
Subject: Re: Marching in the Band(width)

>>>>> On 08 Jul 1993 10:41:00 -0800 (PST), SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com said:

  SCRUTON> How about adopting a 'packed' philosophy aka the grateful dead bulletin
  SCRUTON>   board, where lotsa small messages get corralled into one big one which
  SCRUTON>   comes out 3-4 times per day?  (maybe even with a subject index)

  SCRUTON> I don't know where the guru will come from to wrang that thang together,
  SCRUTON>   but it might make people's mailbags smaller (at least from the table
  SCRUTON>   of contents' point of view)

It's called a digest... lots of mailing lists do that, or give the
subscriber the choice of either digest or regular list...

maybe sfraves (and the other rave lists) would benefit from offering
digest format....

	Cosmic Roy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 13:21:05 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 09:41:23 PDT
Subject: Mr Werthiem, will you or Jon be hawking CD's

at the south bay lunch today?

*

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 13:38:14 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 11:22:01 PDT
Subject: Re: FMR: questions.... (Sean the Narc)

I just don't know how to deal with somebody telling me not to
something I should have every right to do.
-------
i've had similar experiences, it's frustrating i agree.  i think the
problem lies in the parental/police pressure WRT recreational
substances. as long as it's illegal, this prob will be here....

*

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 13:41:48 1993
From: gwh@lurnix.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 11:16:56 -0700
Subject: Re: congressional hearing on-line (fwd) 


As much as I hate to ruin the party, the congressional hearing
was pushed off to October or November after some potential
conflict-of-interest and lobbying questions came up wiht
regard to Sprint donating services to make the online
connection into the committee work...

Hope it works out then; they're talking about doing
things like having them see IRC ;-) we can say hi.

-george



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 13:55:08 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 12:04:46 PDT
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....

Maureen Garrett sez:
>
> Before I unsubscribe (had 131 msgs this morning and it's just too
> much), I
 
 
Um, Maureen, how many of these did you send yourself?  You may not
want to unsub, just try to consolidate your posts... the majority in
my mailbox today were from you.


In another article: [about nitrous]
>
> access, method of getting high.  Personally I wish the kids a better future
> like switching to Mother Earth's true teacher plants.....a prayer for the
> day.
> 

Are you under the impression that because a chemical is 'grown' it is
somehow better than something synthesized?  "Mother Earth" belches a
hell of a lot more N2O than man does, anyway.

What defines a "true teacher plant", and distinguishes it from, say,
some other subjective chemical (or combination of chemicals) that an
individual might enjoy?  Example: alcohol.  Various cultures had used
alcohol rituously or ceremoniously at least as long as five thousand
years ago.  Another example: opium.  Both have been used extensively
and have been culturally accepted in the past, yet both are undeniably
very bad for the body.  Both occur naturally with little processing by
man required.  Are they "true teachers"?  Why or why not?


-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
            "Unk!  Bull manganee" - Tarzan, lord of the jungle
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 14:03:07 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 12:38:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Marching in the Band(width)

I agree, and actually admit that I am one of the bigger violaters
in posting too much - I probably posted 6 letters yesterday.  Apologies
to all.

What probably could be the MOST help is if someone were to write a
FAQ about setting up mail filters - make it easy enough for the first-time
user to understand, but include references to all the major mail applications
(Elm, Berkeley Unix Mail, even obscure ones like mush and mh or the mail
reader used under emacs).  I could then send this out to new users as a
way to manage their mail folders, and put it on the FTP site for everyone
to get.

The volume has been a little high recently, but I think the signal-to-noise
ratio has been fairly high too.  Combining points in a single letter is
tricky, since it assumes we read our mail all at once rather than linearly,
and because those not interested in the subject line are tempted to delete
the whole letter rather than skim down until they find something important.

So, here's an attempt:  I was gonna ask this in a subsequent post but I guess
I'll do it now.  Does anyone have any concrete info and/or contacts for the
Burning Man ceremony in Nevada on September 4th?  

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 14:31:21 1993
From: langston@isi.com (Richard Langston x247)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 12:31:33 PDT
Subject: Re: Marching in the Band(width)


> From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU Thu Jul  8 12:28:27 1993
> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 11:41:00 PDT
> From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Marching in the Band(width)
> 
> I personally don't like digestified lists, it makes it harder to have
> a dialog.  I firmly believe that we can solve all of the problems of
> 


	One possibily would be to use "listserv", which allows users 
the ability to turn digesting on if they want.  Then everyone could
have it their way.  Personally, I agree with Bob.  I prefer to get 
articles all day long!

	How many folks read this list now?

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 14:38:21 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 12:51:21 PDT
Subject: beach party



	Anybody know how the beach party went last night?
	I was too tired to go but stayed up late hacking anyway :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 14:42:02 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 14:05:28 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Free Radio Berkeley

This has come through a pirate radio mailing list, but I thought it would be
of interest to everyone here since there has been talk of transmitted raves in
the past.  Also because I hate corporate radio more than anything else on this
planet.

--------------cut here--------------------

RECLAIMING THE AIRWAVES

Using inexpensive hand built transmitters, Free Radio 
Berkeley and other micro power broadcasters are challenging the information 
stranglehold imposed by the corporate media and enforced by federal 
regulation.  Every Sunday evening from 9 PM to 12 midnight, a broadcast 
is made from somewhere in Berkeley at 88.1 on the FM band.  Running 
with an output power that varies from 5-15 watts, Free Radio Berkeley 
has been picked up as far away as 35th and Geary in San Francisco.  Free 
Radio Berkeley is a First Amendment challenge to the restrictive federal 
regulations which only favor those with money and power.

It is the contention of Free Radio Berkeley that most communities, however
they may be defined, are denied their own voice.  Unless one has at least
$50,000 to start a 100 watt FM station, there is no way any community
without those resources can have a voice.  Before 1980 it was possible
to apply for and receive a 10 watt Class D educational station license
with very little money in the bank.  Thanks to an alliance of
reactionary elements who sought to suppress voices outside the mainstream
and liberal elements such as the Corporation for Public Broadcasting
(NPR) who sought to establish more "professional" stations (translation,
more likely to be funded by corporate blood money laundered through
foundations), the FCC eliminated all 10 watt station licenses
as of 1980.  This move prevented the 90% of the US population who 
do not have the monetary resources from having a voice on the FM band. 
Especially African Americans who are grossly underrepresented in the media.

If the airwaves were not dominated by the corporate 
media pirates, there would be plenty of FM radio spectrum space available 
for all to use.  Even in the congested Bay Area FM radio spectrum, 
there are quite a number of frequencies that would be appropriate 
for low power (.5 to 10 watts) community broadcast operations. 
Unfortunately, like so many other public resources such as old growth
forests, the air waves have been hijacked and polluted by the corporate
state in its relentless pursuit of profit and control of all public resources.

Free Radio Berkeley is part of a growing movement 
of individuals and communities across the country who have set up 
these micro power (1 to 15 watts) broadcasting operations.  Most notable 
of these is Black Liberation Radio, which covers a housing project 
area in Illinois.  Black Liberation Radio has been under severe attack 
by both the local police and federal agencies.  Despite police and 
federal harassment, Black Liberation Radio is on 24 hours a day offering 
some of the finest programs to be found anywhere on almost no budget 
to speak of.

Very recently the FCC filed a Notice of Apparent Violation 
against one member of Free Radio Berkeley, Stephen Dunifer, with an 
attached civil fine of $20,000.  Free Radio Berkeley and Stephen Dunifer 
are being represented by Louis Hiken from the National Lawyers Guild 
Committee on Democratic Communication.  It is hoped that this case 
will result in some major precedents being set for Micro Power Broadcasting. 
Efforts are under way to organize the Free Communications Coalition to defend
and support Micro Power Radio.  Funds for legal defense will be raised
through a series of benefits and public forums.  Call the voice mail 
number (510) 464-3041 if you can help in any way with this effort. 

Just imagine the possibilities of having hundreds
of micro power broadcasts like this across the country.  Cost is not 
a problem since a basic station can be put on the air for around $200.  With 
determination and purpose we can break the stranglehold on the flow 
of cultural and artistic expression, information and ideas in this 
country.  Consider giving your community a voice.  Very soon, inexpensive 
(less than $500) UHF TV transmitter designs will be available as well.  

Free Radio Berkeley encourages you to take up the 
microphone and let a thousand transmitters bloom.  Your support, ideas, 
and involvement are essential to micro power radio flourishing.  We 
will have a complete handbook out very soon which will cover all aspects 
of micro power broadcasting.  Please call our voice mail number for 
updates on upcoming events and workshops.  Our address is:

Free Radio Berkeley, 1442 A Walnut St., #406, 
Berkeley, CA 94709 <D>

Phone # (510) 464-3041 

Or, come to the FRB collective organizing meeting on Wednesday, July 21
- 7:30 PM at the Long Haul, 3124 Shattuck Ave., Berkeley

For anyone on the net in the vicinity of New York City, I will there on the
weekend of August 6 through the 10 or 11th.  I am trying to set workshops on
micro power radio on Monday & Tuesday.  It looks like the Paper Tiger Folks
will find a facility large enough to hold 20 or 30 people.  Transmitter kits
($40 for 5 watt units) will be available as well as a book on Micro Power
Broadcasting that I am working on now.  I am asking a donation of $10 to $15
per person for the workshops.  Hopefully that might cover my travel costs
unless there is an extremely kind beneafactor(s) on the net who would like to
donate to a good cause.  

If anyone on the net wants to order the kit send $40 (made out to cash) to
the above address.  The new and improved stereo kit using the Rohm BA1404
with one watt output will be available soon at a cost of $35.  I have a 6
watt (requires only 1/4 to 1/2 watt input) amplifier kit which will drive a
PA-1 to full power, it costs $25.  Another design which will be in kit form
soon is a 15 watt amplifier that only requires 1/2 watt input, cost will be
about $30-$35.

Stephen Dunifer

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 15:45:58 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:42:13 PDT
Subject: Re: Marching in the Band(width)

> So, here's an attempt:  I was gonna ask this in a subsequent post but I guess
> I'll do it now.  Does anyone have any concrete info and/or contacts for the
> Burning Man ceremony in Nevada on September 4th?  
> 
>         Brian
> 
Yup aka Black Rock Festival
Labor day weekend,sept 3 - sept 6  nevada desert, $40 per person(18+) , 3 days
 no mention of a rave
this time but they seem to be open to having all types of festivities.


Volunteers receive $15 off the price. 
Burning Man hotline 415 985-7471

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 16:03:24 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:05:30 PDT
Subject: Building/Burning/Man


There's a 4 page newsletter / signup for the Burning Man ceremony
floating around the Haight, I got mine (and so did Geoff) at Cafe
International.  It's light tan, black ink, 8 1/2" by 11 1/2" (standard
piece of paper size).

I'll try to remember to bring it in and type the info up (unless
someone beats me to it).  Looks very cool, and I'm interested in
going.  Looks quite organized, too.

Bob

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 16:24:07 1993
From: llew@apple.com (Llew Roberts)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:17:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Marching in the Band(width)

>How about adopting a 'packed' philosophy aka the grateful dead bulletin
>  board, where lotsa small messages get corralled into one big one which
>  comes out 3-4 times per day?  (maybe even with a subject index)

[...]

>Dave Scruton "Celtic Warrior"
>Hughes Aircraft

Yeah, I just had to unsub :(, because of the high volume of mail that's
dumped into my mailbox.  A digest would be really helpful.  If it was
gatewayed to a newsgroup, that would be *really* great (ba.rave?).

Back to calendar-only, but still wanting to stay in touch...

Llew


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 16:30:25 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 8 Jul 1993 15:14:49 -0700
Subject: Re:  Yeah, but THIRTY BUCKS?

C'mon Pete, lighten up!  It's one thing to do a semi-renegade in the desert,
another to pull out all the stops for a through-and-through commercial gig
like Pyramid.  The DJs and performers are going to get paid (we hope), the
stewards of the land are going to get paid (we hope), there's audio and
lighting and generators for up to a couple thousand people to get and
haul all the way out there.  It really adds up, as you know.  The big
outdoor music festivals in California such as Reggae on the River now
charge nearly $60 for a two-day festival.  

As for the 'emphasis on bring your own camping gear,' I'm not sure what
you're getting at.  This is the *desert* -- there is no cover, no stores,
everything has to be brought in (and then, I certainly hope, brought back
out again -- all we ought to leave is footprints and tire tracks, and
I'd get rid of the tire tracks if I could).

It's very possible that the promoter(s) will end up losing money on this,
even if they don't provide all the services they should.  I know, I know,
it seems a bit on the hype tip right now, and I'm still not entirely
satisfied about the arrangements with the Paiutes, and my schedule may not
even allow me to go.  But better you should go after the jerks who charge
$20 at 16th and Harrison for bad events with worse vibes.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 16:39:14 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:45:38 PDT
Subject: mail order Garth CDs


In a fit of complete stupidity, I've decided to take care of mail
orders for sfravers who want to get a copy of the Garth CD.

$16 per CD includes packaging and shipping in the USA.  Include an
additional $4 for non-US destinations.  If I cannot fill your order,
your money will be refunded.

Please send money order, cashier's check or well wrapped cash
(preferred) to:

Bob Ramstad -- Garth
P.O. Box 390931
Mountain View CA  94039-0931

Once you have sent your funds, please send email to
'garth%groovy@us.oracle.com' with the number of CDs ordered and the
shipping address.  I will generate the shipping label from this, so
make sure it is accurate and complete (i.e. your name, street, city,
state, zip).

Allow 4-6 weeks for processing time.  Quantities may be limited.  This
offer only open to subscribers of sfraves, please do not propagate
this message in any medium.

Mini-review:
I heard it for the first time today, and I like it!

Disclaimer:
I had nothing to do with any aspects of the production of this CD.

Bob Ramstad, Pleasure Seeker
boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com (preferred) or rramstad@us.oracle.com


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 17:14:30 1993
From: jimt@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com (Jim S. Thompson)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 16:28:52 PDT
Subject: Re:  Building/Burning/Man

	I belong to a "high tech" artists group called YLEM.  Just last 
	night Larry Harvey of Burning Man gave a presentation to YLEM.
	(YLEM has presentations at the Exploratorium on the "free" night
	 every other month).  Larry showed slides of last years Burning
	Man at the same site out in the desert.  It looked phenomenal!
	They set up what amounts to an "art city" out in the desert
	where, for 3 days people do all kinds of neat art things (one
	person had what looked like hundreds of feet of neon layed out
	in the desert!).  This year they're going to have their own
	FM radio station (can you save rave?) out in the desert.  I'm 
	definitely psyched for this event!  It really looked like a 
	great community they had set up.  These people art real art
	pros and the event looked tightly run - they bring out portable
	toilets, etc.  The info number is (415) 985-7471.

					Jim Thompson - CYBERIA

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 17:28:56 1993
From: ren@nin.asd.sgi.com (Ron Nikel)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 16:31:57 -0700
Subject: Re: mail order Garth CDs

On Jul 8,  2:45pm, Bob Ramstad wrote:
> Subject: mail order Garth CDs
>
> In a fit of complete stupidity, I've decided to take care of mail
> orders for sfravers who want to get a copy of the Garth CD.
>
> $16 per CD includes packaging and shipping in the USA.  Include an
> additional $4 for non-US destinations.  If I cannot fill your order,
> your money will be refunded.
>
> Please send money order, cashier's check or well wrapped cash
> (preferred) to:
>
> Bob Ramstad -- Garth
> P.O. Box 390931
> Mountain View CA  94039-0931
>
> Once you have sent your funds, please send email to
> 'garth%groovy@us.oracle.com' with the number of CDs ordered and the
> shipping address.  I will generate the shipping label from this, so
> make sure it is accurate and complete (i.e. your name, street, city,
> state, zip).
>
> Allow 4-6 weeks for processing time.  Quantities may be limited.  This
> offer only open to subscribers of sfraves, please do not propagate
> this message in any medium.
>
> Mini-review:
> I heard it for the first time today, and I like it!

	I bought it today, and it is great!  It hasn't left my player for the
past
	3 hrs.

>
> Disclaimer:
> I had nothing to do with any aspects of the production of this CD.
>
> Bob Ramstad, Pleasure Seeker
> boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com (preferred) or rramstad@us.oracle.com
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from Bob Ramstad








From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 18:04:06 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 16:39:12 -0700
Subject: This week's RAVE guide

	A couple interesting things this weekend - Challenge tonight
sounds cool, at least sonically - 4 turntable madness by people who
truely do use more than two :)  I'd hit Your Sister's House beforehand...
Friday night I could only locate info on Sweet n Low, whose DJ lineup
sounds like it'll be a good mix of strong performers and upcoming talent.
(support the unsung DJ!)  Even with the Wicked crew in LA and the Groove 
Kitchen people in Seattle, Saturday looks to be quite fun - Escape 
generally gets very high marks in reviews to the mailing list; Aurgasm
promises to at least be a unique experience; and Flem Globber has a few
good people behind it... so give 'em a try :)

	Brian

*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     Last modified: 06/23/93
*****************************************************************************

Thursday, July 8th - Challenge - DJ's Markie and Ernie Munson on 4
	turntables - 1144 Howard, $5 (a great deal) - 3am - noon.

Friday, July 9th - Sweet 'n Low - 510-655-3700 - DJ's Carlos, Dutch, Moonpup
	Tony Largo, Dave Alvarado, Shobhan, J-Rave, Liquid, Dave Alga, Tigger
	Visuals by Pure, sound by Shredder - (800) 500-4001, (510) 883-0923
        Free in/outdoor after party.  After Party BBQ until 2pm Saturday.

Saturday, July 10th - To-Gather - (a benefit for Malachy by L.A. promoters)
	DJ's Garth Jeno Thomas Taylor & local LA DJ's Rob-L and others
	213-960-5156	310-285-8636   714-550-4741

Saturday, July 10th - Aurgasm - DJs Nick Phillips, Robbie, Mark Heley, Nadeeah
	10 PM Ambient     1 AM Trance     4 AM Deep
  	rituals/performance/ideas/celebration - $5 before midnight, $9 after
	174 King St. --> 21+ - (415)974-9363
	"Surrendering into the love of the awakening planetary consciousness 
	allows the ecstatic collectivization of all human minds as one 
	global brain.  Dance the new reality into existence."

Saturday, July 10th - Flem Globber
        Carlos  Jon Bishop  DJ Dan  Dutch  Robbie + Darwin Chamber
        415-773-9431  510-727-6625  408-746-2157  916-553-9755
        (presented by Recycle, Field Trip, Sundays in the Park, Casper, etc)

Saturday, July 10th - Escape - 1 Year Anniversary Party - 415.599.3360
        "In Loving Memory of William Richard Higgs 1/69 - 5/93"
        Doc Martin, Anton, Tony, Simon, Doran -- Team 2000 Ambient Space

Wednesday July 14th - A Transmedia Litany - Genesis P'Orridge with XKP
	650 Howard St.   (415) 241-1568 or (415) 541-5687

Friday, July 16th thru Sunday, July 18th - 
	a benefit for the Shoshone and Paiute Nations
        presented by Wicked, Ambient Temple of Imagination, Psychic TV
        pagan love fest-horseback riding-clothing optional-hot springs
        DJs Christophe, Moonpup, Markem X, Spun, Galen, Michael,
                Goa Gil, Jeno, Garth, Markie, Elf, Dani, Susan, Shoban, Spirit
        Live: Iao Core, Spacetime, Tastibox, Cosmic Free Way,
                Paisley Brain Cells, etc.
        Visuals by Liquid Sircus Delights, Pyromania Arts, Synergy
        $30 for 3 days, or $18 per day.
        bring shelter, drums, positive vibes.  fruit, water, feast provided.
        Friday 8pm to Sunday 8 pm.
        (415)337-4905  (415)512-5713  (415)922-6941  (408)459-8304
        Directions: I-80 thru Reno, 23 miles to Wadsworth.  Take 447
                north to Nixon.  Left to follow Lakeshore around westside
                of lake.  4.5 miles past Sutcliff to Warrior Point.

Saturday July 17th - CyberFest - a multi-cultural tribal gathering
        Onionz/Tony/Buck/Shon/Doc Martin/Harry Who/Rick Preston/Daemon
        Pete Avila/Tin-Tin/Chris Flores/Carlos/Colin Dale/Barry Weaver
        DJ Dan/Donald Glaude/Julius/Digit+EFX/La Paix/Neon Leon/Ernie Munson
        Ghost/Sammy/Safar/Jonathan/Curb/Liquid/Demigod+Mouse
        Live:Fungo Mungo/Mo'fessionals/Soul Beit/Dizzy Bam/Aztlan Nation/
                Electric Soul/Funky Bishop/The Rave Brothers
        Located at 4th & Channel, SF (a few blocks south of Townsend)
        info: (415)979-4543     (916)449-3111   (408)235-1077
        Advance tix $20+ripoff at BASS
        No Illegal Substances/Strict Searches - presented by Cool World

Saturday, July 24th - The Bay Area House Nation presents Unity
	415.995.4935  	408.236.2072	510.464.5980

Saturday, July 31st thru Sunday Aug. 1st - Penelope's Web
	presented by One Nation Productions and Your Sisters' House
	415-765-7671

Saturday, July 31st - BASICS reunion
        Josh  Markie  Tony  Doran  Garth  Wool
        (415)905 9629, 18+, in San Francisco

Friday, August 13 - Sunday, August 15 - Festivahl
        Homegrown Love Mission in association w/ Sharon, l.P. Productions,
        Black Sun Rising & Sudzy Blunt Music, and the SF Cultural Assoc.
        A community Festivahl in celebration of music, peace, life, love,
        unity, free spirit & mind.
        Camp and party all weekend on beautiful wooded campgrounds encircled
        by a gorgeous flowing river.
        Bring family, drums, tents, etc.  Be prepared and waste conscious.
        Global Issues Pow-Wow Saturday & Sunday Afternoon.
        408-450-9799  415-974-9707  510-988-8858  916-558-0050  209-469-3161

Saturday, September 18th - Universe - more details as they become available.
	415-771-9525

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other
        goodwill thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to
        the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
        Also for the latest info on Mal you can dial (415) 241-1560.
        Every one's positive energy is DEFINITELY paying off.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Embark Info Line: 1-800-500-4001
Know it all: 415-905-9661
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
UP3 productions: 408-399-2611
408-296-1611 - 510-464-5999 - 916-558-3777
Flash: 415-541-5076 - 510-464-5959 - 408-236-2220
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by fliers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their 
appropriateness in being on the list, let me know....

Thursdays

YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 415-765-7670
	7/8 - DRC, Susan, Jan Cooley
	7/15 - Tara, Nikki Rivera, Dani
	7/22 - Christine, Shobhan, Jan Cooley
Lush - Chris Lum & Ernie Munson - 715 Harrison @ 3rd	21+
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - 408-345-2386 Rick Preston, others
Shine - Djs Jelly & Jay-J + guests - 683 Clementia 
Zanzibar - Acid jazz and house.  DJ Suki.  (415) 695-7887.
Primal - Tribal, Techno, trance Dj's Lewis and Bryan Hughes - 9th and Harrison
Dog House (presented by Family Dog) 8-2am  261 California Ave, Burlingame - 21+
Virgin Mary - jan cooley, dutch, larry jr. - 2000 K street, Sacramento - 21+
ZONE - Future Thru Retro - house trance techno 70's funk - 55 Natoma, 21+
Capital F - weekly guests - $2 - 21+ 10-2AM - 668 Haight @ Pierce


Fridays 

Mission Rock - DJ's James, Gavin & others - 17th and Illinois. 415-241-8862 21+
Zanzibar - DJ Josh. 415-695-7887.  842 Valencia @ 19th St.
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300 21+
Mr. Happy's Disco - Jan Cooley & Aaron O - 174 King St, $8, 415.487.6237, 21+
F/X - Rick Preston and friends 400 south 1st street, San Jose - 408.298.9796
Soul System - 16th & Harrison, $5     415.979.5097  21+
        [7/9 - bones, noel, alfie, james]
        [7/16 - ernie munson, spun, josh, ghost]
        [7/23 - mark farina, harry who, alfie, dani]
Teknowledgy: the 303 nation - 538 Howard, $8 members, $10 non-members (?)
        [7/9 - John Aquaviva (+8 records), ernie, scott hardkiss, vince, buck]
        [7/16 - Colin Dale (London), Onionz (NY), alfie, josh, buck]
Splash - 4am-12pm, Club O, 278 11th @ Folsom    FREE
Housing Project - 6am-1pm End Up 401 6th @ Harrison 21+ 


Saturdays 

Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
        [7/3 - Binnie & Alphie]
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - noon - blondies, 540 valencia@16th 415.487.6246
Nature - sound factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st - $10 21+ 10pm-7am (415)543-0101
	resident djs pete avila/doc martin/neon leon/jack de la rosa/aaron o
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762


Sundays

EndUp from 6am - 6th & Harrison
AfterLife - 6am-2pm 375 11th st * Dj Simon, Ernie * Smart Bar * Chill Room
Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 6am-2pm - breakfast cafe upstairs - 415-979-8845
Zanzibar - 1pm-9pm - James, Gavin, and Felix playing a mix of House and Funk
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 - DJ's Scott & Robbie, Digs & Woosh, 
        Tickets at both Bulletproof locations 629 Haight (255.7168)
        & upstairs at BPM  1141 Polk (567.8439)
Tilt-a-Whirl (the nighttime version) @ Thunder Bay, Berkeley - 415-647-GRUV 
Spundae - 8pm - ?    Guest DJs + Henrick - 55 Natoma, back of DV8
Nickie's (460 Haight) full house w/dj - 10pm-2am, 21+
Reunion (last Sunday of every month) - Yahoo Simon Garth 10-6am  (707)323-4708

Mondays 
Depth Chamber - 1190 Folsom @ 8th - 9-2am, 21+, (415)241-1560
Pepper.Deep House with Buck, Josh, Chris Lum. 668 Haight, 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 

Tuesdays 
Together - Basement of Big Heart City (339 Jessie)415-979-8825

Wednesdays 
Housing Project - 9-330am @ 401 6th st / harrison - 21+
Recycle - The Stone, SF - 18+ - 415-599-3750.
Pure Sugar - 415-905-9606 - free before 12, $2 after @ the Sound Factory
Boing - 201 Ninth at Howard - $2 b-4 12, $3 after - DJ Bugie w DRC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONNECTION 2 TAPES >> 4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr >>
contact Bob Ramstad boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com >>
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund >>
also at Tower Records Mountain View with the techno tapes
corner of San Antonio and El Camino Real
they have a Dali print with tigers on the front - $24.99 + tax
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

RADIO SHOWS: 

Saturday mornings 1-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7
Tuesdays, noon - 3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Francesco & Unknown KZSU, 90.1 FM. 
Tuesdays - 7:30-10:00pm 103.3fm KSCU Pete Gracious + special guest djs
Wednesdays, 10pm, KFJC, Foothill College (Santa Clara)
Thursdays, 7-9 on 91.3 FM KCPR San Luis Obispo - Beyond Techno, DJ EZ Whip.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351
  and
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 19:09:01 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 18:32:47 PDT
Subject: Marching in the Band(width)

> 
> How about adopting a 'packed' philosophy aka the grateful dead bulletin
>   board, where lotsa small messages get corralled into one big one which
>   comes out 3-4 times per day?  (maybe even with a subject index)
. 
. 
> Dave Scruton "Celtic Warrior"
> Hughes Aircraft
> 

 From my experience from reading rec.music.gdead , the technique of 
digest-formatting a bunch of messages together has at least one problem.
When a flame-war starts up , or a thread gets started that is only of 
minority interest, the unfortunate digest reader has to slog through
all the unwanted stuff anyway , because something of more general
interest is buried in the pile. It's a common complaint to flamers
from people who have to read rec.music.gdead in digest form.

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 19:25:32 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 18:48:57 PDT
Subject: YSH - Really!


Well , after telling folks over and over that I was going to be at
Your Sister's House , and then not showing up ... it looks like I
will be able to make it up there tonight! I've heard so much 
good things about it - it's been fustrating having last-minute
events pop up and screwing up my plans.

 So, unless I get into a car accident between San Jose and San
Francisco - I'll see you folks there!

			Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 19:48:41 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 18:44:11 PDT
Subject: vrave via packet radio? (was Re: Some Thoughts on the Scene)

>                   7. Ravers who are Hams. Are there any out there?

    It wouldn't be too hard to set up a packet radio gateway to vraves.

    You could get to it from anywhere then, without having to find a
    phone (or pay Pa Bell $$$$ for cellular line charges).


        Andy Nourse  KC1IP/6 (HF, 2m, 220, 440 -- phone & packet)



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul  8 20:26:13 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 8 Jul 1993 19:44:08 -0700
Subject: Re:  Yeah, but THIRTY BUCKS?

pyramid promoters hopes:
3,000 - 5,000 people
$90,000 - $150,000 gross
$45,000 expenses (claimed)

profit after 1/3 (claimed) to paiutes: $15,000 - $55,000
of course, not all pay full weekend, + comps.
of couse, $45,000 expenses.

or would u rather estimate 20,000 capacity at cruel world?

alpha

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 00:10:16 1993
From: Scott Everett Swiger <scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 23:16:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: MESS sells out



There will be a house party featuring the MESS DJs Scottie, Stonie, and Brad
at Cloyne Court, 2600 Ridge Rd in Berkeley, this Friday 7/9 from 10 pm-4
am.  (Cloyne Court is a UC student-run co-op)  $2 gets you in, with party
favors available (free juice and fresh fruit, and think "alphabet").

Has MESS sold out?  "What about that "always free, always outdoors" slogan
you guys were boasting," huh?  Well, considering we were hired not to plan,
organize, and throw this party, but only to provide DJs and sound
equipment, I think MESS has kept it's integrity.  After all, if Wicked can
accept money to build up their sound system, so can we. (and if "building
up the system" consists of buying lots and lots of records, so be it :)

For those purist outdoor types, MESS will _definitely_ be  putting on more
sunshiney-type parties this summer and beyond (look for something in late
July-early August).

If all goes well, MESS will also see some of you at Pyramid Lake (now
here's a real outdoor event!).

We'll keep you posted!

Peace + respect,

			s   c   o   t   t   i   e
			MOTHER EARTH SOUND SYSTEM
			>>>respect your mother<<<



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 01:35:00 1993
From: TAXI <taxi@panix.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 03:30:49 -0400
Subject: SFPD intelligence is international?


What?  Can SFPD seriously be competent enough to actually gather spying 
material for a domestic as well as international intelligence organizations?
Huh?  I've read a little other stuff actually mentioning which
domestic groups that this guy in SFPD kept tabs on including SF offices of
every environmental group as well as Palestinian rights groups as well
as ACLU as well as gay rights groups of all types as well as "liberal" SF 
rags.  I'm surprised he/they didn't keep tabs on the local Mission high 
pee-wee miniature golf gang.  :-)

Just want to let you guys know a little more about the SFPD intelligence 
gathering unit.  Who knows....SFPD might be tied in with the CIA's Domestic
Covert Actions Unit.  It all goes to show that when they don't have enough 
actual work to do, then they start getting quite creative in creating new
positions in your local PD.

- your non-local fractal surfer
enjoy!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit


[NY TRANSFER NEWS EDITOR'S NOTE -- Those following the ADL spy
scandal will find this investigative article by John Ross a
valuable and very troubling addition to the information revealed
thus far.  It isn't surprising that the evil-doers in the ADL have
cooperated with the Mossad, the CIA, the South African apartheid
regime and the British occupiers of Ireland.  But those forces of
repression have other allies who are closer than you might think
-- as close, perhaps, as your local police precinct.] 


                           SMOKING GUN?
        TOM GERARD, DEATH SQUADS AND THE BANALITY OF EVIL

                           by John Ross

        from the Anderson Valley Advertiser, May 19, 1993
              (distributed with author's permission)


Just 24 hours after his surprise return from his remote Philippine
hideaway on May 7th, ex-SFPD Intelligence officer Tom Gerard was
free on the streets of San Francisco, his bail reduced and six of
the 11 charges of stealing government documents lodged against
him, mysteriously dropped. At his first court appearance the
following Wednesday, the lanky Gerard dodged the press, entering
and exiting through privileged doors usually reserved for the
judiciary. The rogue cop looked relaxed, a smile that blended into
a smirk edging his mustached lip as he waved to friends in the
Department.

Gerard can afford to enjoy the spotlight, now that it appears he
is cutting a deal with the District Attorney's office that will
guarantee he will never spend one more day in jail for illegally
passing thousands of police files on suspected political
troublemakers to private contractors.

The SF Police elite's delicate handling of Tom Gerard dovetails
nicely with the kidglove treatment the department has consistently
afforded its star spy. Indeed, in January 1985, after Gerard had
completed a 24-month stint as a CIA contract employee in El
Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala, during which he is suspected of
having taught interrogation techniques to death squad operatives,
then-police chief Con Murphy personally approved Gerard's
assignment to the Intelligence Division where he was apparently
encouraged to spy on the very people fingered by the death squads
he is thought to have trained.

Tom Gerard's shadowy Central American adventure began in October
1982 when he took leave of the SFPD Vice Squad and signed on with
the Central Intelligence Agency as what he describes as "a bomb
detection and detonation instructor," a knack he picked up, says
SFPD spokesperson Dave Ambrose, while working with the Crime
Prevention Force ("Tac Squad") between 1970 and 1977.

During the early years of the Salvadoran insurgency, many US law
enforcement officers were signed on as civilian advisers to local
police agencies in a US State Department-directed effort to modify
human rights abuses by Salvadoran security forces. As a bomb
expert, Tom Gerard was an asset in a campaign where terrorist
bombings were a deadly factor. His skills at interrogation,
recently praised by former colleagues in the SFPD, would also have
served him well, thinks one former US military "advisor" who was
on the ground in Salvador during Gerard's tour there. "The US
military didn't work interrogation or with the police -- that was
all civilian contracts and The Agency was looking for law
enforcement professionals who had multiple talents like bomb
detection and interrogation. The two went hand in hand: there's a
bombing. You bring in the suspects. You want to interrogate them,"
says the special forces officer who asked anonymity. "It wasn't
all negative -- the Salvadoran police were famous for brutal
interrogation -- our people were there to try and mitigate that,"
adds the military man.

Working out at the privately run Hunters Point Shipyard police gym
he frequented, Tom Gerard repeatedly hinted to gym mates that he
had served the ClA once before his Central American run -- in
Vietnam as an interrogator of suspected Vietcong. Now the contents
of the American Tourister suitcase he inexplicably left behind him
in his prominently marked gym locker leads one to believe that he
practiced such skills during his 1982-84 tour of that war-torn
region. Gerard himself has characterized the materials found in
the suitcase as "the smoking gun" that will tie the CIA to Central
American death squads.

Among the contents inventoried by SFPD investigators are two
documents labeled SECRET, one purportedly a cable from the US
embassy in El Salvador to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia
describing human rights abuses in that country; the other, a
document entitled "Biodata of Nominees To Be Trained In Human
Resources Exploitation (Interrogation) Course," with 13 names
attached (Gerard says the course was conducted at a CIA-run
"prison labor farm" near Williamsburg, Virginia).  Both of the
allegedly stolen documents have been seized by the FBI and
presumably will never be released for public consumption.

Other intriguing finds in the Hunters Point gym locker: a 100-page
looseleaf binder listing names, addresses and telephone numbers of
purported members of the CIA's paramilitary division which once
operated under the rubric "International Activities Division --
Special Activities Group"; ID cards from US embassies in Costa
Rica, Guatemala, and Honduras and the Salvadoran National Police,
the most feared of that nation's brutal security forces in whose
rural outposts, death squad tortures were routinely carried out; a
100-plus-page manual on interrogation techniques with no agency
attribution; one black nylon hood with green drawstrings; 21
eight-by-ten photos of chained and blindfolded men and 21
newspaper articles focusing on Central American death squads,
including one slugged "Police Probe Intimidation of Refugees."
Four manila file folders in the suitcase were marked "D.S," for
the death squad materials they included.

In an interview with the Los Angeles Times' Bob Drogin (April
27th) -- the only extend[ed] face-to-face conversation with Gerard
since his troubles began -- the former San Francisco Police
Intelligence Officer said he bailed out of Salvador because what
was going down was "some evil shit...."

Upon his return from the Land of Evil Shit in late 1984, Tom
Gerard re-applied to join the SFPD and after "a routine background
check" that apparently did not probe his most recent employment
record, he was sworn in January 2nd, 1985, reports Ambrose. After
seven months in "Field Operations," working nights and "answering
phones" at 850 Bryant Street "to catch up," Gerard was reassigned
to Intelligence where, despite his shadowy past -- or because of
it -- Gerard went right to work ferreting out opponents of the
CIA-trained death squads in Central America.

                              * * *

Opposition to the Reagan administration's escalating intervention
in that war-ravished landscape was at a highwater mark when Gerard
jumped back on board.  Solidarity work -- not only with the
peoples of El Salvador but also in defense of Nicaragua's
beleaguered Sandanistas -- was cresting. Moreover, the City had
become a mecca for tens of thousands of refugees, chiefly
Salvadorans, with a flourishing sanctuary movement that had grown
so politically powerful San Francisco declared itself an offlcial
"City of Refuge."

Soon after Gerard was assigned to Intelligence in August 1985,
activists began to notice an upsurge in office break-ins and
surveillance activities. One object was the Committee in
Solidarity with the People of El Salvador (CISPES). Between 1981
and 1986, 52 FBI field offices around the country assigned agents
to spy on CISPES offices and functions. Phil Josselin, then office
manager for San Francisco CISPES, remembers US mail stops placed
upon donors and a constant stream of suspected infiltrators at
meetings. Significantly, CISPES has five separate file entries on
the tapes police seized from Gerard's personal computer soon after
his escape to the Philippines. Of the 403 entries recorded under
the "Pinko" category -- by far the largest in Gerard's electronic
files -- 80 represent Central American and Latino solidarity
groups, a much greater number than entries for the opponents of
Israeli policy that Gerard and his confessed civilian conferate
Roy Bullock were said to be monitoring for the Anti-Defamation
League (ADL).

During Gerard's tenure at Intelligence, Hari Dillon headed up
"Tecnica," a group that sent over 800 "internationalist"
volunteers to Nicaragua and provided the Sandinistas with $4
million in technical assistance.  After volunteer Ben Lindner's
execution by Contras in northern Nicaragua in 1986 drew press
attention to "Tecnica," Dillon remembers a series of break-ins at
the San Francisco office: "We were being accused by the Reagan
administration of gun-running so we assumed surveillance was
intense." "Tecnica" has a trio of file entries in Gerard's "Pinko"
compilation and District Attorney John Dwyer, who is heading up
the Gerard investigation and who is an old adversary from Dillon's
days as an SF State strike leader, recently informed the activist
that he is one of the most frequently mentioned names in materials
assembled by the ex-cop and Bullock.

In late 1985, Felix Kuri, West Coast representative for the
Salvadoran Democratic Revolutionary Front (FDR), then the
political arm of FMLN guerrillas, sensed an increase in
surveillance. An SFPD officer, posing as a member of the press,
had been caught filming a demonstration at the Salvadoran embassy;
FDR offices at 972 Market Street -- where, three years later,
Gerard and Bullock would scavenge Christic Institute garbage --
were broken into; windows were busted out at Casa El Salvador on
Valencia Street and documents, including the mailing list, stolen.
The 90th entry on Gerard's "Pinko" list is (sic): "Casa El
Salvador (mailing list)." Kuri, who is himself listed incorrectly
as "West Coast Representative FMLN" (number 155) worries that
Gerard was passing data on FMLN Bay Area supporters to his death
squad contacts back in Salvador.

Suspicions that intelligence agencies were closely monitoring the
refugees streaming into the country from El Salvador were
confirmed in early 1985 when FBI inflltration of Sanctuary
churches in Arizona was revealed.  Here, in San Francisco,
Catholic Social Services at 50 Oak Street was an important
receiving point for newly arrived Central American refugees. "The
building owner told us someone was going through our garbage,"
reports then-director Rebecca Rauber. "They'd come take a
calculator, rifle through photos but leave the petty cash -- then
come back two weeks later," recalls office worker Barbara Johnson.
"It was eerie...."

By July 1987, after Salvadoran refugee activist Yanira Correa was
kidnapped and threatened by presumed death squad affiliates in Los
Angeles through December of that year, representatives of
solidarity and refugee groups such as CRECE, CARECEN, and CISPES
met to compare notes on security and recorded 23 incidents,
including 13 office and car break-ins. It was at a December 18th
meeting that Tom Gerard's name emerged as a prime suspect.

During that summer, a sympathetic worker had passed along
information that the San Francisco Police Department was using an
office in the Bayview district warehouse where he was employed.
The office was said to be "full of files" relating to solidarity
and refugee groups and the police officer described as a lanky man
with a pepper-and-salt beard and slight potbelly who readily
identified himself as Officer Tom Gerard. During subsquent
conversations with Gerard, the intelligence operative boasted that
he had the aforementioned Casa El Salvador mailing list and even
passed along a surveillance report on a July 19th Nicaragua
solidarity function.  Those who saw Gerard's report say it
included descriptions of the "tacky chic" clothes worn by those in
attendance.  By the fall of 1987, the warehouse office was shut
down and the operation moved elsewhere. Soon after, for what the
San Francisco Examiner recently tagged "unexplained reasons," Tom
Gerard was transferred back to the Vice Squad.

Marc Van Der Hout, an immigration attorney who is active in
Central American solidarity work and who attended the security
meetings, is outraged by the assignment of Gerard to spy on
opponents of the US Central American policy. "We were in lawful
exercise of our first amendment rights," he told the Bay Guardian
in a recent telephone interview. "It is outrageous that a person
who worked for the CIA in Central America should have been
assigned to carry out this investigation."

                              * * *

In April 1988, Police Chief Frank Jordan signed off on Gerard's
transfer from Intelligence to Vice but the ex-CIA man's interest
in keeping tabs on the "pinkos" did not subside. From 1988 to
1990, Roy Bullock told SFPD Inspector Ron Roth that he and the
rogue cop regularly foraged through Christic Institute garbage.
Christic was then deeply engaged in a ruinous lawsuit, charging
Gerard's former employees at the Central Intelligence Agency with
causing the death and injury to reporters during a 1984 [Eden
Pastora] press conference near the Costa Rican border [with
Nicaragua] that was bombed [...].  "I laughed when I read about
the garbage" says former Christic regional director Robin Young.
"We burned anything that might have contained relevant
information. There wasn't any smoking gun in our garbage...."

Gerard's interest in safeguarding evidence that he had gathered on
radical San Francisco groups surfaced in January 1990 when he
wrote the Police Officers Association monthly "Notebook" that
police intelligence "in no way, shape or form" resembled
intelligence gathered by "the KGB or our own CIA," it was designed
only to "prevent criminal acts," and must be protected from the
prying eyes of the San Francisco chapter of the American Civil
Liberties Union. According to recently received ACLU
documentation, as late as May 1992, Gerard, then a member of the
Gang Task Force, was soliciting an undercover investigation, this
time against "Roots Against War" and "The Revolutionary Communist
Party," just prior to the May 8th "Rodney King Verdict" march that
resulted in more than 580 arrests that ultimately proved
unconstitutional.

But by the end of the 1980s -- with the victory of Reagan-Bush
proxy Violeta Chamorro in Nicaragua and the State Department's
downsizing of assistance to death squads in Salvador following the
Army murders of six Jesuit priests there, Gerard and Bullock were
working more lucrative insurrections. The South African government
shelled out $16,000 for surveillance of African National Congress
supporters in the Bay Area and, of course, the Anti-Defamation
League paid the freight in its zealous campaign to weed out the
supposed enemies of Zionism. Irish nationalists here in San
Francisco have suspicions that Gerard and Bullock had dealings
with the British government -- the seven Irish entries in Gerard's
police files are "just the tip of the iceberg," says local lawyer
Sean McGuffin. Recent revelations of gun-running by San Francisco
police officers through Philippine Airlines' SFO offices, where
Tom Gerard moonlighted as night security chief, suggest an
involvement with elements of the Philippines government -- the
names of 11 Philippino human rights and opposition groups are
listed in the "Pinko" files. Was Tom Gerard also selling names of
activist refugees to the Salvadoran government in the mid-1980s?
Felix Kuri thinks that may have been the case. "I'm wondering
about friends who left here to go back to El Salvador," he related
during a recent Mission District cafe conversation.

In 1988, Father Ignacio Martin Barro stayed several days with
Kuri, now a San Francisco State professor and mental health
worker. In November 1989, Father Barro was dead in San Salvador,
one of six Jesuit priests massacred by US-trained elite troops.
"You know, one of my jobs is to treat people who were tortured by
the death squads," says Kuri, who reportedly was on death squad
founder Roberto D'Aubuisson's hit list. "I want to know if San
Francisco police officers were setting up my people to be tortured
and killed in El Salvador...."

In an interview from his hideaway on remote Palawan Island in
April, Tom Gerard insinuated to the LA Times that he had in his
possession the "smoking gun" that would tie the CIA to Salvadoran
death squads, a long sought-after piece of evidence by those who
opposed US intervention there and one substantiated by the recent
findings of the United Nations Truth Commission.  Gerard's
attempts to blackmail (he called it "graymail") the CIA into
burying the charges against him may well succeed -- once before,
in a federal court proceeding, the Agency stepped in to block
prosecution after Gerard had been called as an expert witness. Now
the former SFPD spy fears that he may be silenced in a more
physical way.

According to Gerard's former supervisor in Intelligence, Captain
John Willet, who is heading up the police department's
investigation and who met the ex-cop when he touched down at SFO
Friday morning, May 7th, Gerard returned from the Philippines
because he feared the CIA has a contract out to kill him. Gerard's
return was so return was so unexpected that DA Dwyer's case
appears to be seriously undermined, Willet told the Examiner's
Scott Winokur and Dennis J. Opatrny.

Does Tom Gerard have the smoking gun that could fatally torpedo
the CIA's already tarnished reputation?  Those who know him sense
a cloak-&-dagger braggadocio that stretches reality to its outer
limits. One gym-mate who pumped iron and climbed the Stairmaster
with the embattled former officer reports that Gerard was always
dropping hints of his shadowy past with an eye to selling his
story for big bucks. "My story is the kind of thing that sells spy
novels," Gerard told the LA Times Bob Drogin. "Here's a guy who
worked for the CIA. Here's a guy who ran a massive spy network.
Here's a guy who fled to a distant Third World Country...." 

"He was really just a cop, you know," his old gym partner figures.
"A foot-soldier with a couple of ex-wives or girlfriends or
whatever and heavy mortgages on his apartment buildings. He
moonlighted nights at the airport and worked out at this gym
because it was cheap. Who knows why he left all this stuff in his
locker? To Gerard, all this spy stuff was just a way of making a
few dollars...."

                              * * *

(This is the unexpurgated version of a piece slated to run in the
SF Bay Guardian. As usual the BG is unwilling to state the charge
that the SFPD knowingly hired a Salvadoran death squad advisor to
spy on the very people the death squads wanted dead.)


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 09:10:59 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Fri, 9 Jul 1993 08:02:49 -0700
Subject: Re:  Yeah, but THIRTY BUCKS?

"No offense to Maureen, but your continual barrage of "commune with Nature"
messages are ridiculous in the light that the "communing' will cost $30."

Oh boy.  It is unfortunate that a lot of useful information regarding
Pyramid Lake has never been communicated to those here, or to the thousands
of people who have been handed the flyer.  It is my understanding, via
Richard Sun, of the following:

1.  The camping fee is $6.00 per day per person.  If a person attends all
three days, that's $18 to camp and $12 for a three day event.  This seems
very reasonable to me.

2.  It is a three day event, although no one has to 'stay' for the duration.
The one day cost is $18.00, per the flyer.  It is a long drive from the Bay
Area, yet completely possible for someone to attend one day and drive home
the next.  

3.  Why camping?  It can be more cost efficient than a hotel in the Reno
Area, and definitely can help build community among us IMHO.

4.  Thanks for sharing your budget.  I suspect that because this is a much
bigger event, the budget reflects that.  This is also a benefit for the
Paiute Nation, with money also being donated to the Shoshone.

Hope this helps.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 10:22:19 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Fri, 9 Jul 1993 09:19:39 -0700
Subject: Re:  Yeah, but THIRTY BUCKS?



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 10:38:02 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 09:28:36 PDT
Subject: vrave via packet radio? (was Re: Some Thoughts on the Scene)

>>                   7. Ravers who are Hams. Are there any out there?

i missed the original article on this, but i am a raver & a ham.  only
technician class, tho.  couldn't get my morse up to snuff to go
general.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 11:39:12 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 13:39:39 EDT
Subject: Re:  Yeah, but THIRTY BUCKS?

Randy Tinkerman writes:
 > pyramid promoters hopes:
 > 3,000 - 5,000 people
 > $90,000 - $150,000 gross
 > $45,000 expenses (claimed)

Unless one heavily promotes in Reno and Sacramento, I don't think one
is going to get nearly that kind of turnout.

Sean

(a newbie opening his big mouth)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 13:58:07 1993
From: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 12:59:31 PDT
Subject: blatant plug


	If you're staying in the city this weekend, come check out 
Aurgasm!  It's being put on by a collective of great people, should 
be a good vibe, they've got lots of ideas for bringing in more 
shamanistic elements.  Oh, and i'll be doing some visuals  :)

*********************************************************************
Saturday, July 10th - Aurgasm - DJs Nick Phillips, Robbie, Mark Heley, Nadeeah
	10 PM Ambient     1 AM Trance     4 AM Deep
  	rituals/performance/ideas/discussion/celebration 
	$5 before midnight, $9 after
	174 King St. --> 21+ - (415)974-9363
	"Surrendering into the love of the awakening planetary consciousness 
	allows the ecstatic collectivization of all human minds as one 
	global brain.  Dance the new reality into existence."
*********************************************************************

						gregg



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 14:59:07 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 10:52:32 PDT
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....

Alchol isn't usualy leagal in public in America so it's the most obvious way
for police to start when they're looking for something to bust you with.
When you examine all the laws, you find it's barely legal to do anything but
sit in your own home and drink alcohol.  You can't drink in most public places
like on the street, in parks, at beaches, etc.  You can't be drunk in these
places either (drunk in public).  So basicly if you walk out of a bar drunk
a cop could conceivably arrest you on the spot for being drunk in public.
Laws are on the books and being added at such a fast rate regarding every
facet of American life that it's only a matter of time until we all go back
to England for freedom.  How ironic.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 15:11:45 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:36:47 PDT
Subject: Re:  Pyramid Lake Tribal Ripoff

Alpha-10.  Did you call the Paiute Tribal Council by chance?  I strongly
suggest that you call Richard Sun directly, leave your name and number so he
can discuss this with you.  (415) 337-4905  Hope you have the balls to call
him. You see, it is really easy to talk behind someone's back.  It is
another story to walk our talk and be ruthlessly honest to someone's face.
peace...   Mau
---------------------------------------------------------------
Maureen.  Did you read your e-mail by chance?  I seem to remember lots of
posts from A-10 time and date stamped before your message wherin he reports
calling the Tribal Council and talking to Richard Sun, which even further
stoked the flames of his problem with this affair.  Or did I dream all that.|-)

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 16:50:34 1993
From: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 15:51:08 PDT
Subject: Re: blatant plug


Oh yeah, if you do come to Aurgasm, i'll be the one with lots of
curly blonde hair, probably wearing black, franticly trying to 
fix one of the slide projectors...

						gregg



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 18:31:59 1993
From: laura@usl.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 20:40 EDT
Subject: Susie K.'s whereabouts

Sorry to flood your mailboxes with this, but . . . .

As many of you are aware Susie Kameny is "Ms. Social Butterfly" of the 
rave-section of the Internet.  I am writing to inform her legions of
net.pals that she has lost guaranteed net-accesess until about July 16.  

See, she managed to spill several ounces of melted ice cream into the 
keyboard of my home terminal, so now we are terminal-less.  There's no 
other place in Hoboken where she can get to a terminal.

So, if you're trying to reach her you'll have to call.  Drop me email at 
laura@usl.com to get the nubmer as I don't particularly want to publish 
it to the world-at-large.

Of course, I can't log in from home either, so any requests for the phone
number will have to wait until Monday :-( .

Laura

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul  9 23:16:28 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 21:59:12 PDT
Subject: About Your Sister's House


your sister's got a nice house ...

 This week , Your Sister's House was in the Mission district . I was 
lucky ( and early ) enough to get parking only a few carlengths
from the alleyway to YSH. Once upstairs , I made my donation to M Normal ,
and then I was in.

 The place had the look of a converted business space or apartment. Very
clean ( from what I could tell in the dimness ). A small group of about 
six people were having a discussion at the end of an open space ( this 
space later became the dance floor ). From what I could gather , the 
discussion started on the topic of love , moved to drugs ( recreational
and/or medicinal ) and/or herbs , and then to parent/offspring relationships
, to ??? 

 For $2.00 , you could have a big plate of fruit salad. There was 
a fortune teller with round prediction "tarot" cards who was doing 
readings for free. Lots of free leaflets , many of which were about
the philosophy of YSH , as well as the usual rave publicity flyers. 

 Nice nooks for chilling , and the roof was accessible for those who 
needed fresh air and a look at the city at night. 

 It took awhile for all the sound equipment to show up , and even then ,
audio connector compatibility problems delayed the start of the actual
dancing until about 11:15PM. But once it started going ... ahh! Tribal
trance music - those in the know can supply the DJ sequence .

 To sum up - I liked Your Sister's House. Definitely "good vibes" in the
space . Out of the crowd that eventually showed up , the people I talked 
to seemed mostly sane and kind. ( some exceptions , but hey , a person
can't be expected to get along with EVERYBODY! ). 

 Since I had to work today , I left at about 1:00AM. It was nice to see
the "usual suspects" from SFRaves there - the Normals , Gil , Raphael ,
Giamma , Derek Chung , Bob Ramstead ( who was the volunteer (?) soundman  
for the night ) , Pete R. ( thanks for bringing the Garth CD ) , Geoff
( thanks for bringing my SPL meter ) , and other people I forgot to
mention .

 			Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

 By the way - I used the SPL meter before I left - the speakers next to
the DJ room were pumping out 110 decibels @ 1 meter ! Sheesh! That's why
I wear earplugs at raves ...
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 10 10:26:28 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 08:34:21 PDT
Subject: Pyramid Lake checklist

Since IMAGINATION is in the desert I'm developing a desert 
things-to-bring/checklist so we can be prepared.  I've structured it
by catagory.  This is a start, folks should add stuff they think is
necessary.  The object is to make a list that each person or a group
can use.


CATAGORY
========
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
CODE	QUANTITY	DESCRIPTION
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

INDIVIDUAL SUPPORT
==================
A1	2 gals/day	drinking water (regardless of what is on-site)
A1	1		Head covering or hat
A1	1		Sunscreen or sunblock or suntan lotion.
C	1		UV blocking sunglasses
B	1 set		toiletries, i.e. tampons, toothbrush,washcloth,soap
B	10		plastic trash/garbage bags
B	1		If you smoke, something to put your butts in.
A	?		Snacks, like Powerbars or pemican for energy
A1	1		Sleeping bag or beadroll.
O	1		Tent or tarp
B	1		Insect repellent
C	1		Bathing suit or swimwear (for the modest :)
A3	1		Flashlight with fresh batteries
A2	1		Warm jacket (the nights can be cold
A2	1		Sweater,together they can protect you to 40 deg.
A2	3 days worth	Clothes for 3 days dont forget extra socks
B	1		Utility or swiss army knife

GROUP "FAMILY" SUPPORT
======================
A2	1		Canope  for shape(NOT A TENT!) $25.00 @ army surplus
B	1		Small first aid kit
O	1 set		Personal communications gear,cellular phone,2-way radio
B	1 set		Cooking Utensils and tableware, i.e. cups
C	1		Radio or Boombox with batteries for emergencies
B	1		large camp light.
B	1		Fire extinguisher
B	1		FOOD: enough for your group plus 2

LOGISTIC "COMMUNITY" SUPPORT
============================
A2	1		Portable FM broadcaster for emergencies and PSA's
A3	1		More elaborate first aid kit
A3	1 set		Some way of identifying people who know CPR
A3	?		Transport vehicles 


LEGEND
A necessary (A1 don't even think of coming without it. A3, your gonna need it!)
B should bring, but you can share with others or mooch off of someone :)
C would help in emergencies but not needed to sustain you
O Optional but Koowel.



P:EASE ADD/MODIFY/CORRECT DISTRIBUTE THIS LIST!!!

				- G



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEXUS SYSTEMS/CYBERTRIBE-5 : Voice:(415)965-2384   Fax: (415)327-6416
Editor/Instigator/Catalyst : Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>
Production Crew		   : Universal Movement Trinity <umt@nexsys.net>

        "They might stop the party, but they can't stop the future"

		--PGP Public key available upon request--
Paranoia - Your state of mind when you finally realize what's really going on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 11 10:12:56 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 09:21:56 -0700
Subject: Computer problems..

If anyone has been trying to reach me over the last few days..or is
trying to reach me..please use the telephone.My computer hard drive has been
having problems so Ive been unable to read or reply to all of my mail.
My computer keeps freezing up.
Thanks! And if anyone knows where I can get a Mac hard drive cheap...
-Chris.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 11 17:36:12 1993
From: Ciamac Moallemi <ciamac@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 16:24:50 -0700
Subject: Marching in the Band(width)

>>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 93 18:32:47 PDT, larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) said:

larryc>  From my experience from reading rec.music.gdead , the technique of 
larryc> digest-formatting a bunch of messages together has at least one problem.
larryc> When a flame-war starts up , or a thread gets started that is only of 
larryc> minority interest, the unfortunate digest reader has to slog through
larryc> all the unwanted stuff anyway , because something of more general
larryc> interest is buried in the pile. It's a common complaint to flamers
larryc> from people who have to read rec.music.gdead in digest form.

A lot of mailers have a "burst" function which can split a digest into
individual messages, eliminating this problem.

A bigger with digested lists is that you lose the real-time aspect of
the list, since the digest would probably only be sent out once a day.
Postings to sfraves are already delayed because of the fact that
sfraves is queued, as opposed to lists like ne-raves where mail is
sent out immediately.  Announcements like "the site for XYZ rave will
be ..." or "XYZ has been cancelled" that need to get out quickly would
be useless on a digested list.

Ciamac.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 11 17:45:32 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 15:45:22 PDT
Subject: UK-DANCE digest 168



I don't like to cross post BUT I couldn't resist this one!!

			-G




Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 15:38:58  GMT
From: Dom <Dom@sound.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: DIY Mixing Systems ?

On uk-dance list, Mike Chace (mikec@praxis.co.uk) wrote:

> I'm fairly set on the Made-2-Fade GM50 sampler/mixer but I'm wondering about
> the decks. *Real* Technics SL1200's or 1210's weigh in at about 350 quid a
> throw and that is a bit much. Anyone know anything about the copies eg
> SoundLab SL1600, DLP1 or Made-2-Fade's BDR1200 ?
> 
> Any info gratefully received.

   From Mixmag A-Z March 1993.
   ===========================

   T for Technics.
   ---------------

   You've got your decks.  Well, you think you have.

   Look on the turntable.  Look close.

   See the word Technics ?  You don't ?

   Then these aren't decks.

   Technics: nought to 45rpm in no seconds.

   That's all you need.

'nuff said,
Dom
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: INTERNET: Dom@sound.demon.co.uk :: Me <- NO CONNECTION -> *@*.demon.co.uk ::
::  FIDONET: VF10 at node 2:254/14 :: Vex-Factor-10 Productions, London U.K. ::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



------------------------------
End of Digest
************************



----- End Included Message -----


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 11 18:25:57 1993
From: g7r5a3ce@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Grace Chan)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 17:34:08 -0700
Subject: cyberfest

Is anyone going to go to cyberfest? All of the hype and
promotion for it is scaring me.  Is this going to be
a quality event?
just curious-grace

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 11 22:13:52 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 21:28:17 -0700
Subject: Re:  cyberfest

	too me cyberfest looks like too much hype.  too many bars
	especially.  too much money wasted on massive flyers.
	i am going with pyramid lake.  look for gristle and caliban,
	two thirds of the massive all analog 'team wbl'.  we'll
	be in the red wbl jeep cherokee and an oldfashoned allanalog
	green and blue canvas tent.  come say hi to us.

calirock


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 11 23:36:31 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 22:40:03 PDT
Subject:  cyberfest and LA To-gather


well, if you end up at cyberfest, drop by the vending area and say hi,
I'll be selling Connection II tapes there.

personally, if I wasn't vending, I'm not sure what I'd do next
weekend.  i'm not convinced of the authenticity of the pyramid lake
thing, and frankly, after going to LA this weekend, i'm also not up
for the driving.  but on the other hand, cyberfest has been
outrageously flyered -- even in LA -- and is way hyped.  on the other
hand, if even half of the stuff on the flyer shows up at the event, it
will be a "spectacle" and should be interesting in that regard.  don't
go to cyberfest expecting a tribal luv fest and you'll probably have a
good time.

certainly you should end up having a better time than LA To-gather,
which IMHO was pretty much a fiasco.  the club management and security
were all assholes, which really made it hard to have a good time.  the
SF DJs got good around 5:30 but before that were pretty stale -- and
the rooms with the LA DJs were more crowded than the SF room through
the night.  the original plan was to have the SF DJs mixed in with LA
DJs in various rooms, but according to the promoters, Tomas/Jeno/Garth
wanted to have one room together for the night --- this was probably a
mistake all around.  at times the music was boring enough that i was
embarassed to be from SF :-(

the flip side?  i had a great time travelling down with Brian Sassone
and Bryce Ryan, I got to see a lot more of LA, which was interesting,
got to see Joachim and Dana again, and meet Andy, a friend of theirs
from KUCI (UC Irvine FM radio), and generally met some really nice
people --- and hung out with the other SFR folks too, of course.
overall, i had a really good time this weekend, but this was in spite
of LA To-gather, rather than because of it.

Balance: I think that the promoters did a good job with the event, but
the club management was disruptive, as was the security, and this made
their jobs difficult enough that things were a bit disorganized at
times.  I'm also probably a bit sensitive due to the fact that I
waited outside for over 2 hours, after coming early, waiting for
clearance to sell C2 tapes --- and then I waited inside for another 45
minutes... but about 80% of this time was due to problems with club
management wanting a piece of the "action" as it were --- Jules, one
of the promoters, who was overburdened with stuff to do, took the time
and spent the energy to get things set up so I could sell, which was
quite a relief...

all of this has made me realize that it makes a LOT more sense to just
rent a space and bring everything you need, rather than using an
established club --- because they are going to protect their space,
place and reputation FIRST rather than letting you do what you
want/need to do.

yowsa,
Bob


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 00:14:47 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 11 Jul 1993 23:13:59 -0700
Subject: Re:  vrave via packet radio? (was Re: Some Thoughts on the Scene)


Moi aussi.  W3XY, extra class, licensed since 1971 :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 02:18:19 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 01:23:50 -0700
Subject: LA To-Gather

  Although LA To-Gather was not the re-unification of the house nation that it 
purported to be, I wouldn't go as far as to call it a fiasco. True, the fact that it
was held at the Variety Arts Center, an established concert venue, started me off on 
the wrong foot (it was hard for me to rave in the same room where I have seen 
The Smithereens live in concert for some reason, almost like having a rave up
at The Warfield in San Francisco), but I have to say that I still had a good 
time despite the many flaws in the eveniI largely bypassed the floor where the
SF DJs were spinning since I figured I have plenty of chances to see Thomas,
Jeno, and Garth while up here for the summer (already having seen them a few tiw
timessince I moved back up ). I chose to listen to the LA DJs on the top floor
and caught a well-rounded set from Chris Flores, an overly commercial set by 
Tony Largo (who spearheaded LA To-Gather and is to get a lot of the credit and
a lot of the blame for the event), and, as usual, a wicked set from Taylor.
I was disappointed in the SF/LA segregation as far as having the DJs on 
separate floors but at least people could get a taste of the San Francisco 
sound. I think that this event, rather then being the solution to all of the
ills of the LA scene (as was rather unrealistically thought prior to the event)
was at least a step in the right direction. I hope that the promoters can 
continue to meet on a regular basis and at least vocalize their problems...
only then can things start to be more organized and more pleasant for everyone.

Tamara

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 05:56:28 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 03:49:08 -0700
Subject: Re: cyberfest

>Is anyone going to go to cyberfest? All of the hype and
>promotion for it is scaring me.  Is this going to be
>a quality event?

Not all the info is in, but so far it looks like Pyramid Lake and Cyberfest
will be the only two non-weeklies going on.  As far as music talent is
concerned, I think Pyramid Lake is the winner hands down.  Cyberfest will
have a few quite good DJ's, such as Buck and Daemon from SD and others,
but I think it's gonna get clouded and lost in the three-ring circus
atmosphere.

Mainly, I think the best way to describe it is as a Rave-a-palooza, but
not in such glowing terms as that might suggest.  I went to Lollapalooza
the first tour, and hated it - the bands were bands which were best when
seen in small clubs, not a big arena with 30,000 other people; the massive
amount of beer really made the vibe stink, and while the promoters did try
hard to bring the "counterculture" to the mainstream, it got lost in the
fray and became a freakshow, a Ringling Brothers of body piercing.  I fear
the same will happen at Cyberfest - there will be SOOO many people there
("20,000 person capacity - this event guaranteed to sell out!"  (what, if
it doesn't sell out I get my money back??)) that the few people who do
come with their luv phasors equipped will simply be overwhelmed.  Now, if
they had not had any alcohol present (Im not sure if the event is all ages or
21+, I think it's all ages) then I'd feel a little better.

It seems like they're trying to hold a Universe out here, but they're 
going about it all wrong - they have been burning bridges behind them
(wonder why there are so few SF DJ's on the list?) instead of trying to
build alliances like the Universe folk are doing for their September 18th
gig out here.

Now, if I didn't feel like driving six hours to Pyramid Lake and was resigned
to stay at home and spend $20, or somehow I had gotten free tix to Cyberfest,
I would arrive around 5am and enjoy the sunrise, coz it's likely that the
people who stay into and past the morning will have something of a good
vibe about them... 

        brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 06:22:11 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 12:20:05 BST
Subject: Re: FMR: questions....


  Mark> [...] it's only a matter of time until we all go back to
  Mark> England for freedom.  How ironic.

I hate to disillusion you here, but our government is almost as good
at passing opressive laws as yours is.  As I think I said in a private
message to Geoff, it's just that if you grow up with an opressive law,
it's easier to accept its consequences, whereas when I hear about the
US forbidding something that would be legal over here, it comes as
more of a shock...

Here, we have very few laws against public drinking, though it _is_
technically illegal to be _drunk_ in a public place, a law which,
shamefully, seems to only be enforced against tramps (sorry, i don't
mean it in a derogatory way, i just can't think of the PC word...)

About the furthest it goes is that in certain designated parks, the
police have the power, at their discretion, to ask people not to
drink.  But you are still perfectly at liberty to drink in one of
these areas _unless_ a policeman asks you not to.

	Cosmic Roy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 06:32:08 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 12:33:12 BST
Subject: Re: About Your Sister's House

>>>>> On Fri, 9 Jul 93 21:59:12 PDT, larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) said:

  Larry>  By the way - I used the SPL meter before I left - the speakers next to
  Larry> the DJ room were pumping out 110 decibels @ 1 meter ! Sheesh! That's why
  Larry> I wear earplugs at raves ...

So what're you complaining about?  That's still 10dB off the threshold of pain... :)


	Cosmic


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 12:15:10 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 13:50:02 EDT
Subject: About Your Sister's House

Susan spun that awesome tribal set :). I don't think I ever liked
tribal before I heard that set..

She's also a joy to talk with, and puts out a lot of positive energy.
We're fortunate to have her.

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 12:40:04 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 14:00:49 EDT
Subject: Re: About Your Sister's House

Roy Badami writes:
 >   Larry>  By the way - I used the SPL meter before I left - the speakers next to
 >   Larry> the DJ room were pumping out 110 decibels @ 1 meter ! Sheesh! That's why
 >   Larry> I wear earplugs at raves ...
 > 
 > So what're you complaining about?  That's still 10dB off the threshold of pain... :)

...and a whisper compared to a sonic Godzilla like Come/Unity. Even
sitting up in the stands I felt like my head was coming off.  Had to
put in earplugs to gain a little sanity back. Yeesh.

(A SPL meter would be fun to tote around just for curiosity's sake.)


Sean


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 13:52:21 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 10:31:05 PDT
Subject: Re:  cyberfest

hey,

I am, but am not really sure what kind of zoo to expect, but
I am *hardy*, and not easily discouraged...if you need good vibes
so to speak, it might not be good, if you can *bring* and establish
what you want, you're probably needed.  I'm bringing two relative
neophytes to a carnival, which should be fun...


*

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 14:00:11 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 12:35:30 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Ramblings on To-Gather



Just some personal observations:


Security:

I've definitely seen worse security -- like at the last Metallica
or Run-DMC concert.  OK, so I exaggerate a bit, but Security was on a
definite power trip that at times (like the flashlight in the face until I
moved from an area of the dance floor that just needed to be kept clear for
some unknown reason -- no through traffic, no exit) damped any vibe I was
trying to generate.  

Then I heard that a certain sfraver had been ejected.  Those sfravers, quite
the rowdy bunch of trouble makers, eh?  

I was amused, however, when the security nazi guarding the entrance to the
DJ booth upstairs fell asleep in the wee hours of the morning only to awaken
and find that a few of the more energetic dancers had slipped by and were 
dancing in a wild frenzy right behind and up from the DJ!  :)


Geography, Music and such:

As somebody already stated, the DJ's were split into the LA crue and the SF
crue each spinning on seperate dance floors (and vertical floors :).  
Although this did give each dance floor a distinctive sound, it also kinda
hinted at an 'us and them' attitude.

The SF contigency had the 'main' dance floor on the first floor that was
actually a small theatre.  The dance floor consisted of the stage (where all
the 'look-at-me' types were putting on quite the show) and the area between
the stage and the first row of seats.  Again, the security was charged with
keeping the aisles open, which is somewhat understandable, but all the way
to the stage through the dance floor?  The aisles ceased to become aisles at
the dance floor and led absolutely nowhere (the stairs for the stage being
off farther to the sides).

I didn't spend much time here at all.  Partly because of the sound which was
directed out into the seating area instead of into the dance floor; there
was no stereo separation and the sound reverberated off the back wall
instead of surrounding you.  (This also had the strange effect of giving all 
the people chilling in the theatre seats a strangely amplified presence.) 
Partly because of the music; which I didn't find all that exciting :(.

The upstairs dance floor (and I do mean upstairs -- somewhere around 5 or 6
flights of them :) was on the small side and was a real club type dance
floor -- in the middle of the room surrounded by a raised aisle with bench
seats and another raised aisle with more seats and cocktail tables.  The
sound in this room was really really good.  Very clean with lots of gut-
wrenching bass!  The lighting was all-pro including two banks of high
intesity strobes pointing straight down.  These had a way of removing any
sense of reality; they were manually/computer controlled to sometimes sync
to the music, sometimes randomly flash (verses at a predictable rate) while
varying in intensity.  (It also transformed the simple task of walking off
the dance floor into a true space walk :)

When I first checked this room out, I wasn't that impressed, but later in
the morning, it was totally going off!  Someone was spinning heavy acid
trance that I totally dug and eventually LA DJ Taylor laid down a wicked
high intensity set.  Totally brutal.  I would recommend checking this dude
out if you ever get the chance.


Chill Out:

I spent alot of time in the second floor chill space (it was after all a
long drive down!) with a bunch of other sfravers. :)  I'd have to give the
designer an A-: it was a virtual sea of bean bags.  Very nice space to nap
(which I did for about an hour).  

Again the security made its presence known when we found out that sleeping
wasn't allowed either.  It seems that they can't tell the difference between
a sleeping and a passed out raver.  Not that they might actually be
concerned for someone's welfare, just that it reduces the likelihood of
lawsuits and negative media later (am I being overly cynical? :)


The Vibe:

Well, I hate to say it (after all it seems to be a subjective call) but the
vibe for me was almost non-existent.  I know that we all have to do what we
can to make it happen, and I felt I tried at times.  Maybe it was the
security or being tired from the ride down, but I felt that the attitude of
the majority of people was stereo-typical LA -- everyone was either afraid
or unwilling to open up.  There was alot of materialism and
self-centered-ness obvious in a lot of the dress and look-at-me dancing.
The drug of choice seemed to be speed or coke vs. E, or maybe a combination.
There were an awful lot of people bouncin' off the walls and alot of
snorting coming from the restroom stalls.  The sporatic hugs I saw seemed
forced rather than ecstatic.

One thing that pretty much sums it up for me was when I went to the
sink to fill up my water bottle (which, by the way, cost $3 at the bar :(
I got there just as somebody was turning around to fill up his glass.  I
turned on the water and politely offered he go first.  I got a calculating
stare (as if to make sure I was truly being polite) before he filled and
left.  Oh well, I filled mine and was shutting off the water just as he got
back and stuck his glass back under the faucet.  So I turned the water back
on for him.  As we both turned to leave, he gave me a side-long thanks under
his breath.  I didn't get the impression that he wasn't sincere or even 
embarassed, just that maybe being polite and open is a sign of weakness
in a potentially dangerous city.  Hmmmm...  I don't look *threatening*, do
I? :)


The Journey:

Well, just so I don't seem too negative today, I have to say I had an
excellent journey down (and back :) with Bob and Bryce.  (The Chinese
restaurant that Bryce picked in Costa Mesa was truly grand!)

Thanks to Joachim, Dana and Andy for the KUCI studio gig.  We got to hang
out while DJ (oh, why can't I remember her name?!?) from Italy spun a great 
set live.  

And it was great to see the rest of the sfrave crew at the party.  



-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 14:22:25 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 13:12:04 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: LA To-Gather



Tamara Palmer says:

> True, the fact that it was held at the Variety Arts Center, an established
> concert venue, started me off on the wrong foot (it was hard for me to
> rave in the same room where I have seen The Smithereens live in concert
> for some reason, almost like having a rave up at The Warfield in San
> Francisco)

Come to think of it, it was kinda like the Utah Saints/Shamen show that was
at the Warfield late last year.



-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 14:46:47 1993
From: PLUI@iossvr.gm.hac.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 12:32:38 PDT
Subject: Import Index zine (*warning 500+ lines)

Here is Issue 5 of The Import Index (from Vancouver's Odyssey Imports)
The monthly newsletter is available from Odyssey, contact Robert Shea at 
Odyssey:
534 Seymour St.
Vancouver, BC CANADA
V6B 3J5
tel-604.669.6644
fax-604.669.7978

A snail mail subscription fee (not sure how much) is to cover the cost of 
mailing in Canada.  The hardcopy sometimes has more material than this 
electronic copy. Besides graphics, some material is from authors who were 
unable to be reached for permission to republish their submissions.  
For example, an interview with Rene Passet and Joost De Lyser (which is 
appearing in Bassic Groove dance magazine of Holland) is not in the 
electronic copy.  I will work closer with The Index publishers to overcome 
the differences with the print/electronic versions.  This is the 5th issue. 
Previous editions contained interviews with Exist Dance, and Sven Vath, as 
well as the multitude of reviews and playlists.

enjoy, 
pat. (plui@iossvr.gm.hac.com)

Import Index #5   -Contents-

1.) Tale Of A Techno City (Vancouver's growing music scene)

2.) REVIEWS
2a) INFLUENCE COMPILATION VOLUME 1 (Influence/Germany/CD)
2b) SOURCE -Organized Noise (R&S/Belgium/CD/LP)
2c) CABARET VOLTAIRE -International Language (Plastex/UK/CD)
2d) ELECTROLUV -Volume 4 EP (Eight Ball/US/12)
2e) HARTHOUSE AMERICA -A Taste Of Hard Trance (Harthouse/US/CD)
2f) ALIEN SIGNAL -The Search Begins (Upland/Belgium/CD/LP)
2g) YOUNG AMERICAN PRIMITIVE -Young American Primitive (Zoemagik/US/CD)
2h) ORBITAL -Orbital II (Internal/UK/CD/LP)
2i) BARRY ADAMSON -The Negro Inside Me (Mute/UK/CD)
2j) FUSE -Dimension Intrusion (Warp/UK/CD/LP)
2k) MIKE INK -Paroles (Edge/UK/12)
2l)  SPEEDY J -Ginger (Warp/UK/CD/LP)
2m) THE SECRET LIFE OF TRANCE -Various Artists (Rising High/UK/CD/LP)
2n) GOD WITHIN -Raincry (Hardkiss/US/12)
2o) AIR LIQUIDE -Air Liquide (Blue/Germany/CD)
2p) ANAL SNAX -Barbaquim (Adam & Eve/Germany/12)
2q) KOENIG CYLINDERS -99.9  (Industrial Strength/US/12)
2r) WILLIAM ORBIT -Water From A Vine Leaf (Virgin/UK/12/CD)
2s) RED PLANET -Journey To The Martian Polar Cap (Red Planet/US/12)
2t) HARDFLOOR -TB Resuscitation (Harthouse/Germany/CD/LP)
2u) BANDULU -Guidance (Infonet/UK/CD/LP)
2v) UNDERWORLD -Rez/Why, Why, Why (Junior Boys Own/UK/12)
2w) LAURENT GARNIER -Bout De Souffle (Warp/UK/12)
2x) STRAWBERRY BAZAAR -Bingo Specs Boogie (Limbo/UK/12)
2y) AFROTRANCE -Flying Dreams EP (R&S/Belgium/12)

3.) The Aphex Twin On a Friday Night 

---------------------Import Index 5------------------------------
Five issues and as many months have passed since we began this little mag, 
this index to the world of imported music. Index is published by a record 
store (Odyssey Imports, doncha know?!), and it is our mandate to give our 
customers and other interested types background and expanded knowledge on the 
infinite variety of music that's available, most of it imported from all over 
the world and not easily discovered without a little effort. Each passed issue 
we profiled somebody or bodies whom we thought were really doing something to 
further sonic excitation, to increase the quality of the music that makes up 
the sound of now; London, Los Angeles, Amsterdam, and Frankfurt were where the 
profiled artists hailed from. At this mid-year point in our publishing legacy, 
we thought it time to take a look around our own backyard, and found that many 
people were watering the very lawn that we had erroniously thought to be less 
green (at least when compared to the other side of the fence). What follows 
are mini-profiles on various sonic crusaders of our own city who have been 
recording themselves into the world of underground sounds, be it techno, acid, 
trance, ambient, or any combination thereof. 


1.) Tale Of A Techno City (Vancouver's growing music scene)
Across the world, Vancouver's only real claim to musical fame has consisted of 
Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, and (gag!) Bryan Adams. But as you are 
about to read, this will all change in the very near future...
To learn more about these releases, contact FUNDAMENTALISM at 604-682-3168. If 
you live in the Vancouver region, you will be able to purchase them at Odyssey 
Imports; if not, try your local music shop, or mail order from Odyssey (info 
on back page).

Over the past year a diverse group of musicians, producers, deejays and 
geniuses have been forging alliances and collaborations, contributing ideas, 
sounds and visions, reworking and enhancing joint efforts, and creating a 
strong foundation for what will surely be the establishment of Vancouver on 
the map of musical proliferation. Many small, autonomous, technologically 
advanced and energy-pulsating recording studios have been developing in 
Vancouver, most of them operating on the interconnective principles of MIDI 
(musical instrument digital interface) and computer sequencing, thus allowing 
sole creators to develop and perfect their own visions, but also permitting 
collaborations of like-minded individuals to get together and combine ideas. 
Collaboration has been the key word in the growth and integrity of this scene: 
producers frequently bring in other musicians and deejays to rework, refine 
and refract their basic ideas, add missing elements, or to just generally 
develop lengthy, groove-laden techno jams that flow and weave through some of 
the coolest sounds of today. Many exciting projects have resulted, varying 
from hard, intensely acidic techno, to trippy, rapturous ambient music, some 
of which could easily rival the best work of our European counterparts. This 
year will see many of these projects reaching the real world, with independent 
labels being set up by the musicians/producers themselves, getting their 
records and CDs out through the Fundamentalism publicity collective and into 
the ever-growing and transforming worldwide underground dance scene. 

The first release to emanate from this scene was by XDrone, which is a project 
created and produced by Dreamdoktor H. and Adham. Those lucky enough to grasp 
one of the 2000 copies (distributed worldwide by Watts of New York) were 
bombarded by a molten mix of acidic poundings, harsh, furious treatments, 
eerie, spaced-out samples, and hard-edged atmospherics. Remixes are planned to 
follow, as the track "Hallucination Machine" proved to be a frequent resident 
on advanced deejay charts. Dreamdoktor H. has compiled a full length CD of his 
own tracks, which also includes collaborations with Adham, Philth at Stellar 
Sofa, Disturbik 909, THC OD, DV8R, among others. Titled "Frequencies From The 
Edge Of The Tektonic Plate", and released on the Outersanctum label, this CD 
"searches for fractual hallucinations through mysteriously melodic mind 
manipulations, hard-edged abstract acid feedback, cerebral beats and psycho-
delic atmospheres." It should be available by the time you read this, and is 
representative of the ambient experimentally acidic pulsations that Vancouver 
is capable of; also be on the look out for 12" remixes of the most clubby 
tracks. Pilgrims Of The Mind is an EP set to be released by Outersanctum, 
possibly on a new sub-label, sometime in the next month or so. Adham has been 
working at his digital studio Modulation Electronik (also the name of his 
label) for his full length CD project "Universal Realignment", which he 
describes as "ambient electro-acoustics for the cerebrally active." Selected 
tracks will be remixed (Dreamdoktor H., Tripswitch, and...) for the dancefloor 
and released on 12" vinyl by Modulation Electronik.

One local producer has been preparing his new label and the music he wants to 
release for the better part of this year. After being strongly influenced by 
the advanced trance releases that started coming out last year, Philth 
continued to develop his own sound and style, which has become rather well 
known locally simply by the term "trippy". After recording over a dozen 
tracks, Philth chose "My Heart Is Being Touched By Christ" (which features 
vocal samples taken from "Altered States"), combined with "Power" by Duck 
(who, evidently, Philth found in a pond), to be the debut single for his label 
Sub Conscious. This double A-sided 12" single is an interesting combination of 
sounds, as Philth's track melds trance elements and treated voices with 
breakbeat style drum loops, the ultimate result being enticingly unique; 
Duck's track is similar in percussive feel, but warps out into sample whiplash 
hell in the most intense of moments. Sub Conscious will certainly gain some 
attention for this powerful and distinctly underground release; many other 
tracks are being mixed down at present, the best of which will show up as 
future single releases, leading up to a full length CD album. Philth has his 
other sides to musical production, and is adamantly inspired by ambient music; 
he is forming a sub-label called Sub Aqua, which will release tracks of a less 
clubby nature - surreal soundtracks of layered, mind-moving (and potentially 
altering!) substance. The first Sub Aqua release is a full length CD 
tentatively entitled "The Endangered Music Project", which promises to be 74 
minutes of heavenly aural sculptures, and will feature a few tracks done in 
collaboration with some of the other producers. Having experienced some of 
Philth's non-stop and seemingly never-ending recording sessions, I can say 
that he could easily become the most prolific of all of our artists, producing 
and then releasing music that can create such deep response in those exposed.

Of all the music you have read about in Index, finally we can tell you about 
something worthy coming from our own city. It is very likely that the music 
that is influencing you, exciting you, giving you hope about the future of the 
underground sound, is the same music that has been inspiring this lot of sonic 
crusaders; these people find experimentation, new ideas, new techniques and 
exhilerating energy to be the fuel on which their ambitions fire. So don't 
expect lame house beats and cheesy disco vocals, this is future music, not 
commercial, mindless (and dated) pop-dance-disco-house that seems to be 
resurging in popularity amongst many of Vancouver's deejays and party-goers. 
Some of this stuff you will hear in the clubs and at parties, there are still 
some deejays locally who like to be creatively adventurous (keep your eyes on 
those charts!); more than likely though, this is music that you will 
appreciate through your own effort in your own environment, to acknowledge and 
appreciate modern sounds being made right here in Vancouver, music that takes 
chances, expands your sonic vision, and gives you an opportunity to relate to 
the future.


2.)REVIEWS (reviewers: TB-Tobin Boothe; RS-Robert Shea; PW-Phil Western;
	               MS-Mick Shea; H-Harbinger)

2a) INFLUENCE COMPILATION VOLUME 1 (Influence/Germany/CD)
No point in breaking this compilation down into particular songs, it will 
suffice to say that all the included cuts are of the mayhemic genre: fiercely 
pounding, bass distorting, acid flanging, sample blasting, mind numbing - and 
yet trance inducing at the same time. Influence is without doubt one of the 
top labels at the moment, at least in the true underground scene, and is 
showing signs of extremely good taste in the music they release. This 
compilation is highly recommended for superb examples of pyrogenically 
pulsating acid trance; many of these cuts were available on 12" single, but 
only the most courageous deejays ever spun them. RS

2b) SOURCE -Organized Noise (R&S/Belgium/CD/LP)
On first listen of this eight cut deejay-friendly release, I was sure that 
this Source person must have spent a lot of time at R&S, he has the sound down 
pat: indescribable soundscapes flying around your brain, strong, sometimes 
bewildering rhythms and beats, layered and intricate keyboard work: this is 
prime Belgian stuff, folks! So, as it happens, Robert Leiner (the one to whom 
the credit goes), is the "technical guy" at R&S's studios in Ghent, and has 
been their studio manager and engineer for two years. How could that not 
influence someone to create some awfully happening tracks, many of which are 
pleasantly compared to the best of C.J. Bolland's best tracks (also on R&S). A 
superbly gleaming and hyper-exciting selection of cool stuff, and it is not to 
be overlooked. RS

2c) CABARET VOLTAIRE -International Language (Plastex/UK/CD)
How could it be possible - another full length Cab release (CD only), 6 or so 
short months after that amazing "Plasticity" of late last year?!? Well, 
obviously, they must be milking it, wiring up the drum and rhythm machines, 
pressing scramble on their sequencers and mixing down unimaginative, rehashed 
and predictable stuff, right? HAH! I think they have been struck by the 
lightning of a musical god, 'cause they have really got it together. Now they 
do ambient, they do techno, they do tribal trance, but they do it all in the 
most classic Cab style: they have really learned a lot from being one of the 
pioneers of electronic music, and have let themselves assimilate so much music 
over the years that they have developed an amazingly unique style that 
separates them from all others. Seventy-four minutes with only one low point, 
a "jazz" house song called "Afterglow"  that is good in its own way, but 
sounds lame amongst all the gems on this CD. Recommended to all purveyors of 
modern pulsations. RS

2d) ELECTROLUV -Volume 4 EP (Eight Ball/US/12)
Ever seen that T.V. ad for Infiniti automobiles that features this silky 
smooth, sax-flavoured house music? Well, thanks to one particularly determined 
customer who called the Nissan customer hot-line, we were able to track it 
down. It's called "Stormy Dreams", and the full 9 minute version does not 
disappoint - no vocals barging in and ruining it, just the coolest, 
understated, jazzy, shuffling, finger-snappin' house groove y'ever heard. TB

2e)HARTHOUSE AMERICA -A Taste Of Hard Trance (Harthouse/US/CD)
Surely you remember reading in the April Index about the amazing Harthouse 
compilation "The Point Of No Return" (and last issue about Harthouse founder 
Sven Vdth)? Well, this is not the same thing, this is six tracks chosen for 
the first American release for Harthouse, and they are all different than the 
ones on the previously mentioned compilation, but equally as recommendable 
(and the price is better too!). "An Introduction To The German Hard Trance 
Experience" this certainly is (at least for Americans, we've been exposed for 
a while!); in fact both compilations are absolutely mandatory for modern 
underground sound collectors. RS

2f)ALIEN SIGNAL -The Search Begins (Upland/Belgium/CD/LP)
Inspired by NASA's search for extraterrestial intelligence which began on 
October 12, 1992, Alex Silvi dusted off some old analog synthesizers (which a 
lot of people are doing lately) and recorded 40 minutes of pure trance 
enjoyment with a steady pulse throughout. This album is completely 
instrumental, with the exception of an occasional thoughtfully chosen voice 
sample, and never hits the listener over the head with any of the harsher 
sounds of techno. Instead the overall mood is refreshingly soothing with that 
crisp and clean production the Belgians are so adept at these days. Self 
described as "Private Dance Music", Alien Signal is perfect after a long hard 
day. TB

2g)YOUNG AMERICAN PRIMITIVE -Young American Primitive (Zoemagik/US/CD)
From San Francisco comes Young American Primitive (YAP), one of many in a 
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

2h) ORBITAL -Orbital II (Internal/UK/CD/LP)
The long awaited 2nd LP from Orbital is finally here and it seems to be 
getting a pretty good response from all those who purchased it in its first 
week of release. From a personal standpoint, I have always found Orbital to be 
a stronger singles act than an album act but their second LP is a strong 
effort nonetheless. Opening and closing the album are the sample loop 
experiments "Time Becomes" and "Input out", between these two tracks lie some 
very melodic and intricate songs. There are some familiar tunes here: the 
hugely successful "Halcyon" remixed to a new height with added vocal samples 
which make the track richer than its 12" version. The Meat Beat remix of 
"Mindstream" is also included (minus Jack Dangers' vocals), and this is 
something I was happy to hear as an instrumental. Other tracks include two 
variations of "Lush" which I suspect would do extremely well as a single if 
released as such: it's classic Orbital with some of the best employment of 
vocal samples heard in a long time. "Monday", which appears to be a reworking 
of their single "Sunday" (although it's hard to tell), also stands out on the 
album. All in all the 10 tracks sound great together as a full length and if I 
have one complaint, it's that they didn't freak things out enough. But maybe 
next time... PW

2i)BARRY ADAMSON -The Negro Inside Me (Mute/UK/CD)
In these days of the tyranny of political correctness, titling an album "The 
Negro Inside Me" might elicit cries of projecting racism and ethnocentric 
stereotypes through music - certainly not the kind of critical reaction needed 
to boost sales, but then Barry Adamson is not Michael Bolton, and "The African-
American Inside Me" just doesn't cut it by comparison. On this 6 track CD, the 
latest in a series of soundtracks for films that only exist in his 
imagination, Adamson seems to be paying homage to a time when "negro" was an 
acceptable term for "African-American" - the 50's and 60's. This collection is 
a pastiche of hyperfunky beats, jazzy organs, beatnik bongos, and frightfully 
brassy horns. "Dead Heat" is the perfect theme for a campy film noir thriller, 
while "A Perfectly Natural Union" is a slice of cool jazz muzak (one can 
almost hear the cocktail chatter in the background). Adamson also injects some 
funky soul into the seductive Serge Gainsbourg classic "Je T'aime, Moi Non 
Plus". Wonderfully idiosyncratic, "The Negro Inside Me" is the ideal 
soundtrack to a blue night of rhythms and intrigue. MS

2j) FUSE -Dimension Intrusion (Warp/UK/CD/LP)
Warp Records and +8 join forces to bring you the fifth instalment of Warp's 
excellent "Artificial Intelligence" series, written, produced and edited by 
Canadian technomaster Richie Hawtin. For those of you not familiar with 
Richie's work, this album beautifully illustrates his talents. Tracks range in 
style from the 303 acid-laced "F.U." and "Substance Abuse", to the tranced-out 
hypnotic "Mantrax", to the chiller vibes of "Uva" and "Nitedrive". The great 
thing about this release is that it has an emotional quality that many 
techno/trance records fail to deliver. The vinyl pressing comes as a limited 
edition double white vinyl package (also available on regular vinyl via +8 
Records), great for deejays who appreciate a variety of sounds. This release 
is essential to all sophisticated listeners who desire intelligent, artistic, 
enlightening music - highly recommended! TS

2k)MIKE INK -Paroles (Edge/UK/12)
This track appeared on the Post Acid Crash CD earlier this year (or maybe late 
last year... I can't remember that far back!) but we all thought it was pretty 
damn groovy here at Odyssey and the 12" certainly does not disappoint. These 
guys opt for a more funky feel on this track but they still faithfully employ - 
you got it - the 303, but hearing it in a funky track like this is so cool. 
This song is fiercely original and seems to appeal to technoheads as well as 
househeads, so you might as well check it out 'cause it might appeal to you 
too!!! The other tracks include 2 remixes of "Paroles" that are a little more 
straight ahead as well as the oddly titled "Rck Pty" (whatever the hell that 
means). Anyway, buy this disc. PW

2l) SPEEDY J -Ginger (Warp/UK/CD/LP)
Moments ago, you were reading about Warp Record's fifth instalment of its 
impeccable "Artificial Intelligence" series, and now you are going to read 
about the sixth. Speedy J is an artist that some of us had begun to wonder 
about: what ever happened to that amazing Dutch techno-melody master who 
created so many lovely tracks over the years? We fear no more; "Ginger" is a 
full length release (limited edition ginger-coloured double vinyl), and 
wonderfully flowing, uplifting and mind-massaging with its "techno-ambient" 
washes of smooth, caressing beats, rhythms and pulsations. Over the last few 
years, many an industry type have questioned "dance" music artists' ability to 
work beyond the singles format, when in fact what has happened is many of them 
have moved beyond the "dance" music format completely, and have begun to 
create modern music that is infectious, beautiful, attention-deserving, well-
written and conceptually assembled. Fuse, Orbital, Sven Vdth, William Orbit, 
B12, Biosphere, Cabaret Voltaire, Speedy J and others are members of a group 
of geniuses who are supplying the pulse that our hearts will beat to for a 
while to come. Enjoy the new revolution, from your armchair or favourite 
dancefloor, the songs never remain the same, they just keep getting better... 
RS

2m) THE SECRET LIFE OF TRANCE -Various Artists (Rising High/UK/CD/LP)
An inspiring variety of music is presented on this double vinyl (single CD) 
release from one of England's better independent labels. Some of the cuts are 
from the U.K., but the majority (and the best ones) come from Germany. Obvious 
hits are included, such as "Barbarella", "Hardtrance Acperience 1", and 
"Quicksand" by Spicelab (wait a moment, that sounds like a Harthouse 
compilation!). Nonetheless, all tracks are good, except "No Deeper Love" by 
Rising High Collective, which has an irritating and redundant disco vocal that 
hardly belongs in trance music. But get the compilation for other things, 
especially the depth and breadth of sounds and moods contained within the rest 
of the tracks. RS

2n) GOD WITHIN -Raincry (Hardkiss/US/12)
It feels lately as though the world is gonna have to sit up and take notice of 
us over here on the Westcoast of North America. As it stands, Exist Dance are 
on their tenth release (coming out soon), and the Hardkiss family are now on 
their fourth and we should be very excited by these two labels. "Raincry" is 
something special for sure; these Hardkiss guys have a way of putting together 
a house track without using the standard house formula, thus creating tracks 
that are irresistably danceable as well as trancy and far out. The singles 
preceding this one ("3 Nudes" and "The Trip") kind of set the way for what was 
to come and I think this new single is going to make a lot of people happy. 
The main track "Raincry" is a dubbed-out house groove with great shimmering 
effects, with a very serene sense about it that is smooth and satisfying. The 
B side track takes me back a couple of years to when I purchased This Mortal 
Coils' third album which has been sampled to great effect on the song 
"Daylight".  I love hearing samples used in such a subversive way, it gives 
the release a whole new level of originality that is very impressive. PW

2o) AIR LIQUIDE -Air Liquide (Blue/Germany/CD)
"It has no enemies it cannot conquer, it laughs in the face of fire, it talks 
with the moon, it evaporates and rises to the stratosphere only to return to 
from where it came..." A segment of very poetic liner notes for a very poetic 
CD: Air Liquide occupy the same frame of reference as any artist who expresses 
themselves through the development of a single concept, in this case the 
refinement and almost perfection of a sound, a style, an approach to trance 
music that should be appreciated, not just acknowledged. Air Liquide is 
lovely, hypnotic and yet playful; basslines patiently repeat endlessly to 
uphold the groove, pads of transforming keyboards float in and around the 
rhythms, simple and precise percussion plays along with the modulating synth 
sounds: the whole effect is surprisingly effective for such uncomplicated 
structures. Some heavy moods are expressed on a few of the eleven tracks, so 
be prepared for a variety of emotional reactions when you listen to the whole 
thing from start to finish (which is strongly recommended!!). RS

2p)ANAL SNAX -Barbaquim (Adam & Eve/Germany/12)
Whoa, holy hardcore! This is gonna scare some people for sure. On the 
notoriously hard Adam and Eve label, this 12" is among the craziest that the 
label has produced. Yes, of course, it features the omnipresent TB303 but it 
manages to use it with originality and distortion so it doesn't get on your 
nerves. "Distorgasm" is just what it sounds like... a distorgasm; very 
intense. The A side of this record alone is enough to please any hardcore 
freak but the B side is also relentless in its pounding mayhem. The tracks 
"Barbaquim" and "S/M 69" keep the mood nice and friendly with distorto 303, 
crazy beats and general wackiness. With a name like Anal Snax, how can you 
refuse? PW

2q)KOENIG CYLINDERS -99.9  (Industrial Strength/US/12)
The A side of this EP is the track 99.9 which I suppose is cool; it is 
comprised of fairly standard hardbeat kind of stuff but it doesn't hold a 
candle to the lead B side track, "Carousel". This song captures everything I 
love about techno, it is trippy beyond belief and has one looping melody line 
that filters in and out and wraps you up within it. Beats do eventually make 
their presence known, but by the time they do, the listener will likely be 
completely hypnotized. This is a truly beautiful track, no doubt about it. The 
second B side track "Choreomania" thumps along nicely enough; but I would 
rather hear a twenty minute remix of "Carousel" - that would be an awesome 
single. PW

2r) WILLIAM ORBIT -Water From A Vine Leaf (Virgin/UK/12/CD)
One of the best songs from his recent CD "Strange Cargo 3" has been remixed 
three different times and released on vinyl (CD single, too) for us deejay 
types, which is good news as that release will be one of the best of the year! 
"Water From A Vine Leaf" is as beautiful musically as the title suggests, and 
the mixes are interesting variations of that beauty. The two versions by 
Spooky are fast in pace, a little more trancey than the original, but equally 
as enthralling; the single mix on the flip side, done by Underworld, is 
slower, elongated rhythmically, and superbly long and temptous, in fact a 
little like the original. A lovely platter, I think good enough for all to 
enjoy... RS

2s) RED PLANET -Journey To The Martian Polar Cap (Red Planet/US/12)
This record isn't brand new, but it deserves a review, so who cares, right? If 
you read this 'zine regularly you already know I'm a huge Underground 
Resistance fan and this 12" is so cool it just can't be described, it is 
nothing less than an epic track. The 909 beats thump along at a great pace 
with one repeating high pitched signal looping over and over to wonderful 
effect; this coupled with some of the best string chords ever banged out on a 
techno track make it truly brilliant. Words cannot describe; this should be 
playing everywhere, all the time, forever. PW

2t) HARDFLOOR -TB Resuscitation (Harthouse/Germany/CD/LP)
Harthouse releases its first full lengther that features the music of a single 
artist, and what better candidate than Hardfloor whose now classic 
"Acperience" EP basically created the revival of acid. Does the inventor of 
the Roland TB303 (acid squelching rhythm machine) realize the musical monster 
he has created?! This album is essential to all acid trance addicts; songs 
like "Lost In The Silver Box" and "Teebeestroica" (clever title!), show 
Hardfloor's love for that infamous squaking filter-sweeping bass box. The 
double vinyl package is deejay-neccessity-priority-level-maximum, as it not 
only includes future floor monsters, but also past Hardfloor hits "Acperience 
1" and "Trancescript". One may think that this would be a collection of 
pounding, floor-filling club tracks (and one would be right!), but it also 
works in the "listening to the whole thing in one sitting" genre, with a few 
subdued, less frenetic bits inbetween to smooth out the dominating nature of 
this style. A tasty offering, served with a side order of oscillation, and 
highly recommended by both of us! TS/RS

2u) BANDULU -Guidance (Infonet/UK/CD/LP)
There is some very exciting music coming out these days, and Bandulu, along 
with others (some of which are mentioned in this magazine), stand on the 
forefront in what could be called a post-techno movement. The influence of the 
Detroit sound on Bandulu is evident: unique drum patterns and song structures, 
crisp high hats, deep bass, heavy atmospherics, even a remix provided by motor 
city stalwart Carl Craig; yet their style is infused with trance and tribal 
elements to create Bandulu's own unique, rich sound. Two singles, "Guidance" 
and "Better Nation", previously released and now remixed for this album, are 
included, and while "Pacekeeper", "Gravity Pull" and "Flex" are all strong 
candidates, "Earth 6",  which travels across diverse musical ground, would be 
my first choice... it's simply stunning. Other songs on "Guidance" contain 
deep moody atmospherics, yet all the while the beat broods underneath. Bandulu 
have already remixed cuts by The Orb (with whom they were also recently on 
tour), The Times, and the Smiths, and I'm sure after the release of this 
album, more offers will follow. This is the sound others will seek. Don't wait 
for the old order to release something new... dig the new  breed. TB
 
2v) UNDERWORLD -Rez/Why, Why, Why (Junior Boys Own/UK/12)
I can't go into too much detail with this release, other than the one I have 
is on pink vinyl, with a plain pick sleeve, and contains possibly two of the 
best sonic pulsations of the last few months. Rapturously lengthy, shimmering 
and gut-wrenchingly euphoric yet intense, how to describe music that makes you 
feel more than think? Uh, um, well, I can't say it, you must hear it... RS

2w) LAURENT GARNIER -Bout De Souffle (Warp/UK/12)
Warp certainly has been supplying some supremely danceable ditties lately, and 
this 12" is definitely commendable. A little mellower than some of the other 
Warped records, but equally infectious, and offering two different tracks that 
are close in groove level but far in approach. Imagine Hercules (remember 
"Lost In The Groove") or Bam Bam ("Where's Your Child") doing a track with 
Sven Vdth and you will have imagined "Wake Up", 7.5 minutes of bassey trance 
with acid sounds, housey percussion, and slowed down, breathey male vocal 
bits. On the flip, Laurent takes a more modern approach, and simply lets the 
modulating synths and pulsating percussions run with the rhythms and beats, 
for 11 minutes of soft, unoffending, warm and welcoming trance-like 
soundscape. RS

2x) STRAWBERRY BAZAAR -Bingo Specs Boogie (Limbo/UK/12)
Takes the "ass-kickingest, beat-slammingest, rhythm-punchingest, percussion-
percolatingest, dance-inducingest" award for this month. Mind you, nothing new 
is presented here, and the sounds are of the standard "progressive house with 
a good mix" variety. Wait, I must say that the Jump Remix does deserve to be 
mentioned specifically; it does sound a little different in parts - that 
bassey guitar sound is fat and wonky and the percussion - those bongoes 
especially - make me sneer uncontrollably! Points for the title, too. RS

2y) AFROTRANCE -Flying Dreams EP (R&S/Belgium/12)
Four tracks recorded in Frankfurt, written in a techno jungle, surrounded by 
tribal drummers, acid trippers, humming synth pads and frolicking keyboard 
lines, splattering percussion; four groove-driven primal techno jams that 
soar, then glide on their own energy, like a 40 foot condor over a Brazilian 
ridge. Deep, primitive and modernly enhanced... RS


3) The Aphex Twin On a Friday Night

HILVERSUM, NETHERLANDS - Friday Night: 
We seem to be the last in a long line of journalists who have bothered Richard 
with their questions for the better part of this day. Richard is "hot"; the 
recognition of his deviant style doesn't come exclusively from the dance 
scene, but also from alternative Dutch magazines like "Oor" and "Obscene". 
After the release of two striking albums ("Selected Ambient Works" and 
"Surfing On Sinewaves"), it became clear that there was more to Richard than 
the many "four beats and a beep" musicians that normally supply food for the 
dancefloor.

One of the more curious features of his style are the many strange and new 
sounds that his records contain. These sounds originate from his self-
constructed and modified instruments, some of which have grown old, since 
nowadays Richard lacks the time to build any new ones. He's busy enough 
repairing his existing creations: "Sometimes I feel more like a technician 
than a musician, because lately I've been spending more time running around 
with a soldering iron than making music." We ask him when he first became 
interested in sound manipulation: "When I was twelve I started making tape 
loops on old tape recorders that I found at junk shops. By making several 
tapes and synchronizing them, I could create the strangest sounds." One year 
later he bought his first synthesizer, an early Roland, which he started to 
modify thanks to techniques learned in an electronics course he took in high 
school. As his technical knowledge increased he started to build a sampler, 
which only worked for two months but the sounds it produced were nevertheless 
bizarre enough to save. 

Richard now works in several studios. One is in his home at Cornwall, two 
others are in London (operated by Rephlex Records, the label he co-owns with 
Grant Claridge), and as Grant claims, another in a secret underwater location: 
a cave only attainable by monorail(?!). Richard's Cornwall studio is where his 
irreplaceable self-made and modified equipment is kept and there he makes the 
raw material for his new tracks. His more regular synths and drum machines are 
in London, though most of these have also been through the modification 
process to some extent. Here the Cornwall material is worked out and made 
suitable for release. The use of conventional synths has been snubbed by 
Richard: "I got a little sick of the idea of using the same machines and 
sounds as other people and meanwhile I have collected so many sounds that I 
can go on for years!"

Richard regularly goes looking for strange sounds with a portable tape 
recorder and every sound he likes, he saves on tape. Many of his machines 
cannot be played by a keyboard, they make sounds that can only be manipulated 
by filters and power interruptions or become raw material for his samplers. 
All these sounds end up in an archive, but he always tries to erase them once 
he has used them on a track, to avoid repeating himself. Because he works in 
different studios with different gear, there's a small difference in style in 
his work, although Richard doesn't speak of "Cornwall" and "London" tracks; 
the difference in style of his many aliases is also getting more vague. In the 
future he wants to make tracks under one name only, preferably on his own 
label Rephlex. "I've learned a lot working for different labels, they promise 
you a lot of money, but don't always live up to their agreements." So Rephlex 
Records was started by Grant and Richard to allow more control over their 
work, but also to serve as an outlet for the many sonic experiments that they 
feel are needed to counter balance all the uninteresting techno being released 
nowadays. (This is a familiar motivation that we also find with the people 
from Blackdog and Infonet.) The packaging is also consistent with the Rephlex 
philosophy; different vinyl colours, brown or white paper bags or bubble bags, 
they'll do anything to make it look different. And what do those numbers stand 
for on "Analogue Bubblebath Vol. 3"? "That's a confusing joke, they are our 
postcodes, phone numbers and dates of birth mixed up. Many of my tracks don't 
even have titles, but we're thinking about making an info sheet with titles of 
the Caustic Window and AFX tracks for our fans."

"Digeridoo" (released on R&S Records one year ago) is probably the best known 
track by Aphex Twin, yet it was originally made to scare off persistent party 
people. "Friends of mine used to organize regular after-parties at the beach 
in Cornwall, but they always had trouble getting the people to leave at the 
end. So they asked me to make something that would shake the people out of 
their ecstasy trance, a track to end the party with a big bang!" Besides 
"Digeridoo", Richard claims there are five more tracks from the same session 
on his shelf, but says that for now they're too "dangerous" to release, 
although some of them have probably been released on the "Joyrex" EP series, 
#9 of which is coming out soon as a limited edition picture disc.

This brings us to Richard's release plans. An upcoming release for Rephlex 
will be a project by Grant called "Universal Indicator 3". Wax Trax will be 
the first American label to give him stateside exposure, releasing into their 
territory Polygon Window's "Surfin' On The Sinewaves". R&S will bring us one 
more 12", "Phlegm", an EP of noisy, fast and dirty tracks. Warp will be 
unleashing a second volume of "Ambient Works", which is said to possibly be a 
triple album, or even a quadruple(!); a new Caustic Window EP is also 
forthcoming. Richard is equally in demand as a remixer; he just completed a 
remix of "Zeroes and Ones" by Jesus Jones, and has already finished remixes of 
recent cuts by Curve, Meat Beat Manifesto and St. Etienne. "I don't have to 
like the originals to make something beautiful of it, I get even more 
satisfaction from the fact that I can make something horrible into something 
really nice!" You can guess what he thinks of bands like Curve and St. 
Etienne: the bands approached him, not the other way around...

The interview is coming to an end. Ten minutes later, Richard will explain on 
Dutch Radio that nowadays Aphex Twin is a one man project. While they're 
playing some live DAT tape tracks recorded earlier, he falls asleep to his own 
music. It's been a long day indeed...

Aphex Twin, Polygon Window, AFX, Caustic Window and Blue Calx are all 
different ways of saying the same thing: the experimental genius of Richard D. 
James. This Englishman's drive to work seems unstoppable: he only sleeps a few 
hours a night, otherwise the day goes by without enough done. The huge amount 
of records released has resulted in large royalty payments into the bank 
account of the young musician, proving his productiveness is fruitful and, for 
now, there doesn't seem to be an end to it. 

-----------------------end Import Index 5------------------------


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 15:34:46 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 12 Jul 1993 14:17:00 -0700
Subject: pyramid lake again


still 1 handed...

instant karma.  according to richard, fri's paiute council meeting, w/ rave
deal on agenda, turned into fiasco as tribe ran corrypt council members out.
literally, down the street.

r. says event is no longer at lake, but airfield nearby.  suppose all this 
is subject to change.  

no longer on paiute land, 6 miles from lake, no $ for indians, cept r's
promise to donate to shoshone.  guess when claiming indian benefit one
should do homework first.  

peace
a-10

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 15:46:56 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 13:50:29 PDT
Subject: Re: About Your Sister's House

  >   Larry> I wear earplugs at raves ...
> > (A SPL meter would be fun to tote around just for curiosity's sake.)
> 
> 
> Sean
> 

I sorta did that for a few weeks (actually I was taking readings for the
URSS) and you'd be surprised!  The average Rave system at a club 
comes in at a whooping 120 - 123 dB at the bin!

The last FMR was blasting above 126+ dB (off my meter at 1 m. from the speakers!)
This system actually hurt (a lot!) if you did not wear ear plugs.

I know, being the speaker-tweeker that I am, that I musta done some damage by now
but I try to carry earplugs (and remember to use them) as much as possible.

The problem is that all of the earplugs that I have used so far (mostly
cheap ones) have attenuated the highs so much that they interfere with my
ability to go into trance (and for me, If I can't trance, It's not a good
party :).   So If the music is really pumping, I wind up pulling them out a 
bit then a bit more and then ... well you get the idea.


			- G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 16:16:56 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 14:32:09 PDT
Subject: Aurgasm

We got there (174 King St.) b4 12 along with a bunch of other bargain
hunters to take advantage of the $5 pre-midnight cover.  At this time, 
the music was ambient/space, and was very good, although a little too loud.  
Mark Heley & crew put a lot of effort into creating a spiritual/ceremonial
environment.  There were altars set up all around the perimeter and in
the entrance hallway with an amazing variety of eastern & western 
mystical icons, pictures, books, tarot cards, photos, flowers, toys, etc.
There must have been a couple of hundred ceremonial candles and a lot
of incense.  Even the bathrooms were decorated with roses, assorted
dry plant material and other stuff.  There were a lot of visual 
projections - the usual psychedelic imagery - on every wall.  The floor 
was littered with bean bag chairs, so basically, what we had here was
something between a chillout room and a pagan/shamanistic temple.

The people were a nice mix of zoned out space cadets and friendly
spiritual types, except for one couple whose horizontal activity
on the bean bags led me to believe that they got the spelling
of the party wrong.  

Gradually, the music started to pick up in energy level, and the
beanbags were brought upstairs, clearing the dance floor.  Some
guy in a hooded black robe did some kind of cermonial dance which
consisted of standing still, pointing with a rod, turning, pointing,
turning, etc.  Very rigid, somewhat grim and pretty boring, but I've
never been a big fan of overly structured ceremonies.  He was
joined by 3 other serious looking dudes and they spend a few minutes
doing choreographed poses that must have had some significance, for
them anyway.  Whatever.  I guess it added a certain amount of
mysticism to the evening.

Anyway, the music switched to trance, and people started dancing.  It
wasn't crowded enough to feel like a full blown rave, but the vibe was
pretty good.  We left around 2:30, so I don't know if the scene evolved
any more.  Suppposedly the music was going to become "deep" at 4.
I really like the idea of an evolving thematic party, and it really
worked well in the King St. garage, a place I usually avoid.  Aurgasm 
is gonna be a weekly event, and is definately worthwhile if you 
don't mind a more laid back scene with lot's of atmosphere.  

We had considered going to Escape but found out that it was gonna
be at the Greyhound (Cove, Rock, Beach?) location where Xochipolli
got busted.  It seems that Escape fared no better, and according to
the phone message, the party was busted and totally canceled.  

Did anyone go to Flem Globber?  Janie vetoed going because of the name.
The only rave I've heard of with a worse name than that was one called 
After Birth, but now that I thing of it, wasn't there a rave called 
Xcrement a while back?  Er, no, that was X-Lax.  And on that note, I
think I'll get back to work now.

- leg of eel

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 16:37:04 1993
From: rsammuli@altair.csustan.edu (Robert Sammuli)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 15:03:52 PDT
Subject: 2UNLIMITED

	Hey folks,  
These guys are grooving it up here in Modesto this wednesday.   Should be a 
great show.   The dance place they're playing at is fairly big with three 
dance floors and a a couple of rave rooms.   Plus they have an outside patio
for cooliing off after all those dance beats pulsating thru your veins and form
all the perspiration from grooving to the tune.   The admission price is
$13.00 through BASS tickets and $15.00 at the door.
	For all those interested,  just call (209)522-CLUB for the details.
Or you could just call me if you get lost.   If I'm not home you can leave
a
message--->(209)669-3601

If your coming from san fran  you can either take the 132 to 99 or take the 129e
120 to 99.   You'll see Red Lyon hotel(it's the only big hotel or building in
the area)  You'll see!  It's right near there.   The place is called Metros and
is located on 10th and J st. 
	I'm hoping you'll all come and dance your ASS ASS off.   If you do decide
to come I'll guarantee a good show!!!!!!  Hope to see you there!
					Cordially,

				   Brother BOB





RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR            AAAAAAA      VVVVVV      VVVVVVV   EEEEEEEEEEEE
RRR            RRRRR          AAAAAAAAAA      VVVVVV    VVVVVVV    EEEE
RRR            RRRRR         AAAA    AAAA      VVVVVV  VVVVVVV     EEEE
RRR            RRRRR        AAAA      AAAA      VVVVVVVVVVVVV      EEEEEEEEE
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR       AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA      VVVVVVVVVVV       EEEEEEEEE
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR          AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA      VVVVVVVVV        EEEE
RRR         RRRRR        AAAA            AAAA      VVVVVVV         EEEE
RRR          RRRRR      AAAA              AAAA      VVVVV          EEEEEEEEEEEEE







From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 16:49:06 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 12:51:07 PDT
Subject: Re: cyberfest

("20,000 person capacity - this event guaranteed to sell out!"
-----
I don't think they'll get more than ~2-3K, myself...especially since many
scenesters I know are panning it, so probably lots of new people...

*

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 17:10:27 1993
From: Andy Thomas <athomas@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 15:23:22 -0700
Subject: LA-Togather, etc..


What a weekend.  Friday night started off with Joachim's show.  Both
Daemon and Rob-L did really good sets.  Spent a lot of time meeting/hanging
out with the socal/sf-raves crew.  Afterwards everyone moved over
to the "Socal-Raves Chill-Out" which, although it wasn't actually
a chill out, was really fun.  I'm glad it was pulled off without
incident.  Rob-L came up and spun for several hours (still doing so
when I left at ~4.00).

Saturday night I did my ambient show, which I thought went pretty good.
For the last hour, Alexia-Dj Seduction from Italy spun a pretty good
house set (thanx to Joachim).  Bryce, Bob, and Brian S. stopped by
before heading out to LA-Togather.  Joachim & I got there around 1:30
and I waited around outside with Brian S., and Bryce while Bob dealt
with promoters to get set up inside.

I think Tamara and Brian S. summed up the experience well.  It was 
nothing exceptional, but ok nevertheless.  I was kind of burnt out
for most of the night, spent a lot of time hanging out with Bob and
Greg Earle, and had a bizarre confrontation with an ex-girlfriend.
I thought the music for the most part was excellent, especially 
towards the end.  I didn't know the Dj's in the SF room, but they
were rippin shit up.  Taylor of course was amazing as well.  We left
for Irvine around 9:30 and I spent the rest of the day sleeping until
going back to the station to do the KUCI top 20 at 7.

All in all, it was one of the best weekends in a while for me.  It was cool
meeting everyone who came down from sf, hope to see you guys again soon...

Andy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 17:40:37 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 16:50:27 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: pyramid lake again

a-10:

> no longer on paiute land, 6 miles from lake, no $ for indians, cept r's
> promise to donate to shoshone.  guess when claiming indian benefit one
> should do homework first.  

So that means there isn't an $18 camping fee now?  So the event has now
dropped to $12?  Wow, that's great.

Hey boost it to $15 to pay for gas.  I know of a great desert location :-).

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 17:58:10 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 15:48:08 -0700
Subject: Re: pyramid lake again

Well, with all the tension surrounding this event I don't know if I'll
be able to enjoy myself.  And I've taken way too much time out traveling
recently so I think I'll be avoiding both pyramid lake and cyberfest this
weekend, not out of malice or anything (I do sincerely hope that Richard 
can fulfill any promises he might have to native americans) but out of...
exhaustion?  I dunno.  It wouldn't take TOO much to make me decide to go
to Nevada this weekend, but left to my own devices, I think I'll check out
Mission Rock and Teknowlegy... but I wish I*Magi*Nation the best.

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 18:14:44 1993
From: langston@isi.com (Richard Langston x247)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:38:59 PDT
Subject: cyberfest


from the flyer:

>        No Illegal Substances/Strict Searches - presented by Cool World


	Do they mean this?  And isn't "No Illegal Substances/ Cool World
a contradiction?

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 18:29:39 1993
From: "Barry Alexander" <barryale@symantec.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:24:37 pst
Subject: perpetual newbies in aurgasm



    tried to post this from another account but failed so here i go again...

    just some random impressions from two newbies' experiences at virtual orgasm
    sat nite

    my girlFriend and i got there (king street garage) too early - what do we
    know, i forgot about raveTime.  anyway waited for club to open at that
    24 hour donut shop on corner.  meet some people there asking about what was 
    supposed to happen at aurgasm.  i told what i knew from sfraves calendar.   
    it souned like it
    would be a good event to bring my girlFriend (her first clubRave): started  
    off slowly with
    ambient, people chilling on beanBags, lots of candles, shrines, toys and
    flowers.  a comfortable atmospere.  there was some "performance" or ritual
    performed between the ambient and trance sets.
    i had the foresight to bring ear plugs as the sound got really loud during  
    trance set.  i liked what i heard, made my girlFriend feel like she was
    "back in the womb" during the ambient set - had to be poked out of dream
    world/beanbag for trance set. it reminded me of past experiences of higher  
    consciousness.
    i got the impression people were friendly but i didn't talk to anyone       
    inside - didn't know anyone.  how do i know an sfraver when i see one?
    had to leave early at around 230 before the deep set, girlFriend had to go  
    to work next day.  anyway she seemed to enjoy the event up to that point as 
    did i even without any chemical training wheels.  although we still
    feel like virgins after aurgasm, we'll keep exploring...

    barry
	

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 18:55:19 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:34:01 PDT
Subject: cyberfest


methinks that this estimate (2-3K) is low.  it's hyped to the gills,
and even people in LA are talking about it as the big kahuna.  it's
been flyered to the max and there are plenty of curious non-scenesters
in the Bay area.  while saturation flyering might not appeal to us, a
quote from a girl i met at a wally world "this is the first rave i'd
seen a flyer for"...  non-scenesters also don't really understand that
the smaller events can be much cooler than the mega events, so hype
and hugeness aren't turnoffs, they are selling points.

i don't have the guts to give a precise counter-estimate, but i bet
it'll fall in the range 4-8K, lower than the capacity by a long shot,
but quite big by any standard.  my guess is based on the fact that
cool world has had no problems attracting around 4K people to events
in the past, so that's a good low estimate, and this one is the
biggest so far in terms of flyering / hype, so it could get bigger
than that --- but economic reality and the variety of entertainment on
a typical Saturday in the Bay area will keep this from getting truly
huge (not to mention the $20 cover), there are only so many people to
spread around.

and yes, of course, chris is right on, the crowd will probably be made
up of new people almost exclusively.  imho, nothing wrong with that,
especially if you come with the right attitude.

bob
 
ps: personally, if i weren't selling tapes, i'd stay home this weekend
and megacharge the luv phaser for Unity :-)




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 19:15:12 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 17:10:30 PDT
Subject: Re: cyberfest

>   ("20,000 person capacity - this event guaranteed to sell out!"

    Perhaps they meant "sell out" in the other sense.
    


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 19:31:04 1993
From: Ravi Vinodrai Gadhia <rg@cs.stanford.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 17:20:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aurgasm--Deep

RE: Aurgasm

> Anyway, the music switched to trance, and people started dancing.  It
> wasn't crowded enough to feel like a full blown rave, but the vibe was
> pretty good.  We left around 2:30, so I don't know if the scene evolved
> any more.  Suppposedly the music was going to become "deep" at 4.

I arrived sometime around 3 apparently just having missed the last of
the trance.  There were some folks dancing--definitely less than
capacity though.  I guess that the transition set (trance -> deep)
wasn't quite right since by the time the "deep" dj went on around 4, 
the crowd had vanished.   :(

I have my fingers crossed for next week though.  

Ravi

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 20:02:14 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 17:31:39 -0700
Subject: Weekend in LA



	This weekend I went down to LA with Leah, Cindy, and Tam to visit
fellow socal-ravers and check up on the Malachy benefit, LA ToGather.

	The weekend started with a mad dash down the 5 to make it in time to
Joachim's radio show in Irvine.  We got there 20 minutes late, making it from
Berkeley to UCI in 7 hours flat, a ride made infinitely more exciting by the
addition of Greta and Marlena, Leah's cute white rats.  ANYways, after the
show, which included a great set by San Diego DJ Daemon (who knew you, Lee,
and said to say hi!) and LA's Rob-L, we threw the equiment in Bryan's and
JOachim's cars and headed to the building across campus.

	This rooftop was incredible.  The elevator opened up right on the 
tenth floor rooftop, like stepping out of the telephone booth in Bill & Ted's
Excellent Adventure.  We got the equipment up there, and the approximately 
15-20 socal-ravers & friends (including Joe Rice, Rob Lau, Andy Thomas, K!z!K!,
and more) started dancing as Rob-L took to the tables.  Much effort was spent
in seeing how far the music carried, and even though it was heard from the 
other side of campus, you couldn't hear it from the base of the building!
We turned the music down every now and then when we saw police drive by, but
other than that the party went on without a hitch.  It wasn't as ambient as
we had thought it would be, but it was definitely chill... all in all a very
cool place, one that could probably merit a larger party and still happen...

	The next night we drove up to my parent's place in La Canada, killed
time by hitting Old Town Pasadena (which had become completely yuppified, its
saving grace a bubble-man who was making the most fantastic bubble sculptures)
and riding the elevators in the Bonaventure (okay, so we're tourists, big 
deal:)

	The scene when we arrived was a mixed bag.  Bob was at the door waiting
for word on if he could bring his tapes in to sell - he had aleardy asked about
taping the event, something I had been interested in, but Eugene, Malachy's
brother, was there and said he didn't want anyone taping the event because 
he didn't want anyone to be making money from it.  Knowing that Eugene was
there took my confidence in "things being done right" up by a factor of ten.
Even if the LA promoters didn't have their act together, Eugene would make
sure the money slipped through as few hands as possible and went directly to
where it should... I hoped.

	No bottles of water.  It was a big hassle to get my bubble solution
and bag of chocolate-covered espresso beans in ("you can have a sip of the
bubble stuff to proove it isn't water!").  The good news was that the long
line in went moderately quickly, and before 4am the price was $10 for a party
I was sure was going to be $20.  

	The particulars of the night were pretty well covered by everyone 
else; just to add that I thought it was a fairly positive thing, better than
I had thought it would be, even though yes, it WAS me who was ejected by
security at one point (I'm completely innocent, officer:  water was $3 a
bottle; I saw a tap dispenser laying on the counter of a bar on the top floor,
so I reached over to look at it to see if I could pour some into an empty
bottle on the counter, and the guard accused me of reaching behind the bar and
pulling it out.  He grabbed me by the arm and threw me out the front door, not
without some protest on my part.  The building manager, who was acting like
this was HIS event, when I argued with him on the sidewalk outside: "Why would
one of my security guys lie?" he then threatened to call the cops and have 
me arrested for tresspassing on "his" sidewalk.  Harumph!  Anyways I sat out 
by the car for 15 minutes and walked back to the counter and recognized Eugene,
who got me back in.  I spent the rest of the time being a fugitive within the
club, my only salvation the dance floor :)

	As for the SF-dj's-get-main-room-LA-dj's-get-top-room thang - I don't
know what's up with it.  All I know is that when Jeno and Garth play they
like to play one leading into the other, so I can perhaps justify it on
a musical standpoint, but I think that should have been compromised in the
spirit of unitied the tribes and alternated - putting Taylor inbetween them
or something.  I don't have a solid opinion because I don't know what was
going through the minds of the DJ's or the people in charge of scheduling.

	All in all, a trip well worth taking, and I feel like my "duty" to
see what was up with the benefit was somehow fulfilled.  I don't know enough
about the LA scene to know if it truely was a coming together of the various
crowds, but from what I hear about the meetings from JOachim and the tension
in LA anyways, the fact that the party happened without any major incidents
is somewhat remarkable I should guess.

	Thanks to Tamara, Cindy, and Leah for making the trip down and back
VERY fun.  

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 20:25:57 1993
From: peyote@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 15:16:14 PDT
Subject: perpetual newbies in aurgasm


me and my girlFriend went to virtual aurgasm sat
we showed up a 11 - first newbie mistake, we were early
went to the 24hr donut shop for a cup of tea
a few people wandering around out front until doors open
inside was like a series of shrines, candles, flowers, leaves and toys
ambient beanBags and small clusters of people chilling
my girlFriend returned to the womb it seemed from the abient set
had to poked for segway to trance set
now people start dancing/trancing
i wasn't wearing my training wheels so i didn't dance
the music made my body move but my brain was still at ~80 cycles per sec
and girlFriend had to work tomorrow
i probably missed the best part - the deep/house set
did anyone stay for that set?  all in all i like the event
i thought people were friendly, even though i didn't talk that
much to anyone - just a few outside - felt almost homey inside

btw: other newbie errors
        dont tell door person about 1 liter water bottle
        make sure its a smart drink before you drink it (it was)

"still virgins after aurgasm"


__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ peyote@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]

   The CyberDen - Public Access Waffle Usenet System - 415/472-5527

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 21:34:18 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 20:41:25 -0700
Subject: Water problems at the Malachi benefit..

  Hearing about Brians problems with the LA promoters not allowing in water
really made me sick.. Is it legal not to have water at a party?
Were there really no taps? People..speak up about this IMPORTANT issue...!

Ugh!  And my livelihood depends on nutrient drinks at parties..
but,if I was still doing smartbars and I showed up at a party with a fascist
policy like that I would walk..
(I mean,I like to make money as much as the next guy..but not by FORCE..)
If you're in a hot party and cant drink water,you might die..seriously...
It should be illegal to not provide water somewhere or at least let people
bring it in.. Promoters who try to profiteer on water should be SHOT.
Seriously.. This stuff could KILL the rave scene altogether.
IT already IS doing just that.
These lists should keep a running record of water policies at clubs and
publiscise them.Hopefully peer pressure might change things..but not if
people dont speak up. Ask about their water policy at the door..and if water
isnt provided or youre not allowed to bring it in..refuse to pay..Make a
scene in front of as many people as possible and walk.
 I used to laugh when I
saw "Free Water" on British flyers,because it
used to be ABSOLUTELY UNHEARD OF for people to pull this kind of SHIT here
in SF....
But I'm not laughing anymore..Lets hope this LA idiocy doesnt spread north.
Maybye it already has..(I might be a bit out of touch because lately Ive
been avoiding most larger parties like the plague,unless theyre run by
promoters I know and TRUST...and I'm one of the people who started the sf
rave scene..)

Sorry to be on a soapbox..but I really had to say something about this
one..
Rave on!
 -Chris Beaumont
 Nutrient Cafe Wholesale
 (Makers of Renew-You (TM) and Intellex (TM) )

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 12 22:55:54 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 21:35:14 -0700
Subject: NEW and IMPROVED (Option Magazine, Jan/Feb 1993)

Here's an article I scanned in... share and enjoy.

        Brian

	The Beastie Boys are whooping it up onstage at the Hollywood
Palladium. But to audience members standing on the venue's upper tier,
the focal point is not the group - it's the throngs of bodies slamming,
throbbing and undulating at the foot of the stage.  Now and then, one of
the bodies darts into the spotlight along with Mike D., Ad-Rock and MCA,
then just as quickly hurls spastically off again into the faceless mass.
Likewise, at a pre-Nevermind Nirvana show in Tijuana, Mexico, as the
first three chords of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" ring across the club,
Kurt Cobain and company are only providing a backdrop for the real star
of the show: a member of the audience who has climbed out of the mosh
pit, up two levels of seating, and is preparing to cannonball back into
the pit some 30 feet below.

	The audience-as-headliner is a peculiarly '90s phenomenon.  But
if punk rock gave birth to this do-it-yourself anti-star ethis, nowhere
has it become more ingrained into pop consciousness than at raves, where
those who make the music are no more recognizable than those who clean up
after the shows.  "There are no stars, there are no celebrities at
raves," says Ken Woodard, 26, a filmmaker who is working on a rave
documentary.  "You could say the DJs are the stars, but they probably
would disagree with you."

	Rave culture is the logical outgrowth of the "kill rock stars"
movement that began with punk rock; moreover, in avoiding disco's
narcissism, ravers celebrate the artist in the common man and woman more
than punks ever did.  Rave organizers are more likely to tell audiences to
"join the show; it's about you, not us."  By contrast, veteran punk
rockers Fugazi now lecture their audiences, imploring them to stop
slamming so that others may pay attention to the music.  A year ago in
these pages, Fugazi singer/guitarist Guy Picciotto complained, "It's kind
of frustrating when you just want to play a show and there's all this
other stuff going on." Bassist Joe Lany even suggested that the hardcore
ritual of slamdancing and stagediving is old hat, no longer a radical way
for audiences to xpress themselves.   What the members of Fugazi may not
wish to acknowledge is that this sort of participation, which only a
select few engaged in during hardcore's "good old days," is today as much
a part of the concert experience as the music.   Punk rock, in other
words, has succeeded with its leveler's agenda: in the '90s, the
audience is as important as the performer.

	It's 3 a.m.  on a hidden beach outside of Santa Cruz, California,
and a rave is in full effect.   From a distance, the mass of bodies
jerking about in the laser-flecked darkness looks like a Druidic ritual
dance as reimagined by a Cyberpunk; a computer matrix image ripped right
out of the cathode ray tube and slapped into nature.  Waves pound against
the shore in and out of sync with the cheerfully artificial rhythms and
that ubiquitous big beat.

	"Hey, it's natural to want to change your experience of reality,"
one of the ravers says, his body involuntarily quaking along within the
beat as if the beat itself were a huge, communal heart pumping alien
blood through each dancer on the sand.  "Even little kids like to spin
around to get dizzy," he continues.  "What do you think *that* is?" He
begins to spin around himself, as if to give an example of his argument.
Then he careens off into the buzzing, bobbing flock, his floppy, colorful
clothes whirling after him like a half-human vortex.  Behind him, mutating
computer images dance on a cliff wall.   The other dancers sense his
approach and create a space.  But nobody actually makes eye contact.  The
raver tilts his head back as he enters the space, and his eyes roll up
into their sockets.  Then he disappears into the crowd.

	"Record companies don't know what to do with this stuff," says
filmmaker Woodard.  "They can't package it because there are no faces
attached to it.  Most of the records are done by these kids in their
bedrooms on plain white labels."

	Raves provide the same backlash against '80s stadium bands such
as U2 and Guns N'Roses as '60s be-ins did against '50s teen idols like
Elvis and Fabian.  Yet even the hippie bands had personalities their fans
could identify.  Everyone knew what the Grateful Dead's Jerry Garcia and
Jefferson Airplane's Grace Slick looked like, but could you pick Moby or
the Orb out of a crowd? (If not, take a look at the photos in the
accompanying articles.) Rave DJs, unlike rock personalities, are
figuratively "down on the floor with the people, not up above," says
Woodard.  "When you're on a dance floor and there are 400 or 500 other
people, they're the party, they're the focus."  Moreover, rave music
isn't bought and sold like regular pop.  You won't find the cutting-edge,
white-label stuff at Tower Records, or even at so-called alternative
stores.  You find it at stores like Street Sounds on Melrose Avenue in Los
Angeles or BPM in San Francisco.  "About half the house music we sell goes
to the general public, people who heard it at a rave and asked the DJ
what it is and where they could get it," says Eddie Hardesty of Street
Sounds.  The other half is sold to the DJs themselves, who incorporate the
records into their own rave sets.   But L.A.  is unusual, in that until
recently it had a radio station, MARS-FM, which actually programmed house
music.  (In the last year, the station's management pulled the plug on
house and techno.) "We would get lots of people saying they heard it on
the radio," Hardesty says.   BPM, on the other hand, operates without a
local source of airplay, and sells only 25 percent of its stock to
non-DJs .

	Rave music doesn't lend itself to standard radio formats in the
United States.  For instance, the Orb's 40-minute single "Blue Room" hit
the charts in England, but American radio hasn't attempted to play it.
The Orb's own label cut and remixed the song for its U.S.   release; only
the first pressing of the new album, U.F.Orb, offers a bonus CD
containing the full-length version of "Blue Room."

	After shuttling back and forth across the Atlantic for five or
six years, raveculture in the United States is finally clicking into
place.  Its mixed and mashed elements are falling into the sort of sync
that turns a fad into a movement.  It came simultaneously out of several
visions which, while perhaps similar in many respects, are not the same:
the trippy, antinarrative house music scenes; the harsher,
industrial-techno scenes; the virtual reality, create-a-computer-
environment-and-then-live-in-it ideologues; and the hippie, Summer of
Love revivalists.

	The lifestyle fits into the cyclical nature of pop music, but
with a doggedly futuristic twist.  Unlike the punk rock preservationists,
or even the techno-industrial musical anarchists or hip-hop
postmodernists, rave DJs look in smiley-faced awe at the real
possibilities of an information age.  Wanting little to do with what's
come before, save for a few lifted beats and samples, a rave disc jockey
defines a whole new experience from the entire realm of sound.  "That's
why you have the rave," says Brian Hughes.  "The level of experience at a
rave - the amount of information - is astronomical." Indeed, from the
morphing computer images projected onto the walls to the rapidly evolving
house music progressions and carefully calibrated chemical alterations of
the senses through psychotropics, rave audiences are inundated with
information.  The idea of having a band or impresario tell a rave audience
what to experience is like having someone wake you up from a dream just
to tell you what to dream next.

	Raves may take on the air of a '60s acidtest, with their
psychedelic light shows, fanciful outfits, mind-altering drugs and music
that goes on and on, but the members of the audience are hardly Deadhead
throwbacks.  "You wear the same clothes to raves and Dead concerts,"
says 26-year-old Em Normal, whose eyes are gleaming behind a pair of
horn-rimmed glasses, "but there's really not much of an overlap." It's
nine in the morning and Normal is on a bus returning from the all-night
Santa Cruz rave.  Beside her, another raver, who has indulged in nothing
more than spring water all night, sits with his eyes closed.  But he's not
asleep.  His fingers are tapping complicated, fluttering rhythms against
his seat.  Normal seems wide awake, too, her face as bright as the
colorful patterns she wears.  "In a way, they are a lot alike," she
continues, comparing ravers with Deadheads, "because people see them and
they're dressed really colorfully.  The ravers and Deadheads see it as
festive, but other people just think of it as really strange."

	You don't know Ggreg Taylor.  He's not a star.  In fact, his only
distinguishing characteristic is the weird way he spells his first name;
he decided to add the extra "g" because he liked the way it looked.  "It's
all about self-empowerment," Taylor says, between bites of a hamburger
at San Francisco's Baghdad Cafe.  "Nobody tells you what to do - not the
DJs, not the other ravers.  If you do something different, or dress in
some weird way, they'll just come up to you and tell you how great it is
that you did that.  It's a world of total support for anything you want to
do."

	At raves, Taylor suggests, there's no fixed dress code and no
hip, underground rues of behavior.  "It's not the old celebutante trip.
The old club world was a place where nobodies could be somebody - 'I'm
dancing on this box and so it makes me somebody' - whereas at raves,
there are no performers.  It's about being a participant, not about being
famous."

	How did this happen? Within a movement dominated by people still
in their teens and early 20s - a group which historically has demanded
spoon-fed subcultural uniforms - most of these people shun mass media's
pre-packaged attitudes.  It is one thing to hear 26-year-old house music
producer Bryan Hughes say, "Everything in dominant culture is completely
worn out, so we just figure we have to make something completely new for
ourselves," and another to actually watch people at raves operating
without so-called role models, without icons after which to pattern
themselves.  It's even more astonishing to see that they're happy about
it.

	Ggreg Taylor turns an old argument against disco on its head.
Back in the '70s, the "disco sucks" crowd complained that people couldn't
get their money's worth at a disco because there were no performers.   But
Taylor says, "If you go to a regular concert, it costs you 20 bucks and
it's totally non-participatory.  If you go to a rave, the price is the
same, and you're a participant.  It's all around you.  You feel like you
get a lot more than you get at a concert." He waves his hands around,
gesturing at the people crowded around him at the cafe.  "People aren't
going to concerts much.''

	What ravers seem to be searching for is a feeling, an experience.
When they gaze into a set of computer images, they're not marveling at
the imagination of the graphics designer, but entering into the sequence
of effects going off in their own heads in response to the images.  The
sheer privacy of a raver's experience may be confusing to someone trying
to watch it from the outside.  "Oh, ravers don't even really dance," one
observer at the Santa Cruz party scoffs, and his observation is correct.
The Travolta-style acrobatics of the '70s are gone, and so are such silly
dance names as the "bump," the "hustle" or the "pogo." The scene is much
more chaotic: several hundred people gently, yet quickly bounce - in a
manner not unlike the Deadhead shume or the reggae lilt - at a rapid
rate, attempting to match the requisite 120 beats per minute which ravers
call "the sound of your mother's heartbeat." Any movement beyond that may
seem repetitive, often only a slow shifting of weight from one foot to
another, hands held in a pugilistic pose, head tilted gently to the
floor.  It's not a style of dance that's meant to be viewed, it is a
physical movement intended to be experienced .

	In fact, the dancing may have innumerable variations to the raver
that a traditional observer simply cannot see: the upturn of a thumb here
or forefinger there, an arch of the neck Such subtleties in the body
movements are like the musical subtleties hidden deep within the dance
mix.  The problem for older generations, says Bryan Hughes, who music
label Zoemagik Records, is that they haven't learned to listen.  "A lot of
people say house music is just repetitive, that there's nothing going on
That's completely untrue.  The music is incredibly complex, because
there's no repetition, there are no hooks.  It starts, begins changing
immediately, and then ends.  It's incredibly subtle, incredibly complex."

	Although it is more challenging, the music has the same ambient
quality as new age music - and ravers listen to it in quite the same way.
"I just keep the repeat button on my CD player," says Em Normal.   Ravers'
cars tend to be loaded down with Memorex tapes of local DJs' sets, with
hand-made cardboard covers.  Though the major labels have begun to put out
rave compilations, most of them contain shortened, watered-down versions
of music that should be dense and multilayered.   In fact, the idea of a
shortened version of a rave song is blasphemy; to fans, more is
definitely more.

	At another Bay Area rave, a blond, 14-year-old girl is sitting
next to a blazing bonfire, her hair flaring out from under a tie-dyed cap
like a spray of lasers.  The darkness flattens the light around her, making
it appear as if she's dancing inside the flames.  "House music doesn't
tell a story," she says, "it is the story." Of course, she's right.  Just
as the absence of a "performer" turns the eyes of the rave audience back
on itself, the absence of repeated hooks turns the ears inward as well.
"I get disappointed when anything repeats," says the twenty-something
Jonathan Drukman, who works for the rave label Twitch Records and is now
becoming a DJ.  "The songs that don't seem to work - the ones that make
people stop dancing - usually have some kind of chorus-verse-chorus verse
thing going on." Such a traditional visceral response provides an
immediate signal to ravers that they are being spoon-fed a narrative.
And they react negatively.

	There are losses associated with rave culture that disturb some
people who are involved with both the computer and rave scenes.  Brenda
Laurel, a virtual reality specialist, complained in a recent issue of the
cyber-art magazine Mondo 2000 that "there's an utter numbness to personal
culture, family culture and local culture among these people."
Similarly, Joan Didion wrote that the '60s spawned a generation of
"children who grew up cut loose from the web of cousins and great-aunts
and family doctors and lifelong neighbors who had traditionally suggested
and enforced the society's values...  They are less in rebellion against
the society than ignorant of it." Dominant society, she went on, watched
"the desperate attempt of a handful of pathetically unequipped
children...  create a community in a social vacuum.  Once we had seen these
children, we could no longer overlook the vacuum, no longer pretend that
the society's atomization could be reversed."
	Didion was wrong.  Dominant culture chose to pretend.  But the
difference between the children of the '60s and those who were born
during and after the Summer of Love is that not only are they so sweet in
the absence of order, but also, it turns out, more equipped to make a new
community.  "Everything around us is so completely corrupted," says Bryan
Hughes, cheerfully.  "We know there is no way it can be salvaged." He
ducks his head and smiles sheepishly, as if he's just stated the obvious.
"So what we have to do is make a new one.  Why do you think so many of us
are forming our own corporations?"

	The information age may have produced a disconnection between
rave audiences and older Baby Boomers that makes the '60s generation gap
look like a bad mood, but the rave audience's needs are deceptively
simple and rational.  They don't want a rock'n'roll guru telling them to
"fight the powers that be," they just wanna dance and experiment with (as
opposed to play with) the newest interactive computer gadgets.  "Rave
culture is about being a participant rather than being a voyeur," says
Ggreg Taylor.  "There's nothing to aspire to, but there is a sense of
belonging."

	On first meeting with a group of ravers, you might think they are
inarticulate.  Even when they have something to say it seems to come out
sideways, as if they're using language to approximate something that
could be better explained visually.  Take Hughes: he'll make a point and
then repeat it in several different permutations, as if showing a sphere
from several different angles; several different flat photographs of the
turning earth to get at its roundness.  Ravers are largely unquotable,
because their remarks make them appear stupid.  But that's hardly the
truth.  Many of them who live in the Bay Area work in Silicon Valley
making upwards of $100,000 a year developing interfaces, extending
computer languages and creating new software.

	As Hughes speaks, he is rewiring a virtual reality board.  "The
original techno-weenie," he explains, "was somebody who was using
technology to escape from society.  Now you've got people who are saying,
'Wow, look at all these great tools; we can make some really cool music
or video images or whatever out of this stuff.' This is really
threatening to the old techno-weenies, who got into it to sort of leave
their bodies behind.  In the rave scene, you've got people who want to
bring their bodies along.  Which is the whole idea behind virtual reality:
How can we bring our bodies into this new computer world? And that's the
rave."  


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 02:05:47 1993
From: hyland@netcom.com (Tim Hyland)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 0:22:46 PDT
Subject: Re: About Your Sister's House

> The problem is that all of the earplugs that I have used so far (mostly
> cheap ones) have attenuated the highs so much that they interfere with my
> ability to go into trance (and for me, If I can't trance, It's not a good
> party :).   So If the music is really pumping, I wind up pulling them out a 
> bit then a bit more and then ... well you get the idea.

Geoff -- I know what you mean.  Most earplugs do attenuate the high
frequencies a lot.  Especially the cylindrical foam ones, which are
great if you're doing, say, jet engine testing (dont ask), but not for
trancing.

As silly as it sounds, I've found that a ball of wadded up napkin that
I've chewed on for a bit to make juicy works perfectly.  It attenuates
just enough, and you never have to remember to bring them with you.
But kids, don't make the wad too small -- start big and work the size
down if it's too big.  (Tho' it can be fun sucking out your friends'
failed attempts!  :-)


Share and Enjoy,

Tim

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 04:07:11 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 01:49:42 -0700
Subject: Re: About Your Sister's House

Funny, I was just reading the spec sheet (it's about 1x3 inches with
5 pt type :) from the manufacturer of those standard foam ear plugs
today (sorry, I recycled it and don't remember their name).  They have
an frequency-response attentuation table showing 40 dB down +/- 3 dB
across the spectrum from 125 Hz up to 10K.  Then they say that the
standards body advises derating the results by 50% or something, so
they claim 27 dB average reduction.  

In other words, the foam plugs are really a bit much for attenuating
music, although they work well enough with the workarounds being
suggested.  One that I've long done is to tear a foam piece in two and
use the halves -- much less Frankensteinmonster look, much easier to
mold, but they still don't pop out or get stuck.  And it cuts the 
price in half too :)

I always always always wear ear protection at raves.  I've already
got some hearing damage and don't want to log in very much more.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 04:14:54 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 03:24:21 -0700
Subject: Earplugs (was Re: About Your Sister's House )

>The problem is that all of the earplugs that I have used so far (mostly
>cheap ones) have attenuated the highs so much that they interfere with my
>ability to go into trance (and for me, If I can't trance, It's not a good
>party :).   So If the music is really pumping, I wind up pulling them out a 
>bit then a bit more and then ... well you get the idea.

Go to the Haight-Ashbury Music Center and purchase a set of  "musician
earplugs"  (approx $12.00) -- I've got a set that make the music sound
pretty good, removes some of the damaging mid-hi shrill harshness. They
don't attenuate as much as the cheapo disposable foam earplugs.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 04:53:28 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 04:03:41 -0700
Subject: Rave Music on KQED TV show


I've seen KQED's "Postcards from Rough Guides" twice (Mon 9-10PM, chnl
9) -- both times, they've shown "raves" in foreign places. Last week it
was Bali, this week, Hawaii. They also always use techno tracks as
backing music -- For example, I recognized bits and pieces of The Orb,
Future Sound of London, Eat Static, Fraser Clarke, Meat Beat Manifesto,
Brian Eno (Nerve Net), etc. 

This is a "trendy hipster" travel documentary show -- "travel with an
attitude" they claim. The "hosts" are both from the UK, as is the rest
of the production -- this might explain the selection of UK
techno/trance songs on the soundtrack. 

The odd thing is that they claim that one guy wrote "commisioned music"
and another consulted... but they never thanked any of the artists they
sampled. So, I'm wondering whether they did their sampling legally.
Perhaps they thought their music seletion too obscure to be recognized
by anyone? (just don't tell Chris "Asshole" Blackwell about it.).

A corollary to all this is that "rave" really has gone mainstream.
Techno is splattered all over the airwaves, from Live 105 to KQED, from
sound-fillers in CNN broadcasts to MTV fashion segments. So lets quit
pretending it's otherwise (can you say Cyberfest?) and get on with
life, ok?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 07:13:48 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 06:12:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Earplugs (was Re: About Your Sister's House )

the usual problem i have with sound systems is the high end - screechy,  
piercing, painful.  so attenuating highs preferentially is just what seems  
indicated.  i use the yellow cylindrical plugs, cut to 1/2 to 2/3 of their  
original length, inserted loosely.   near the point where they'd fall out if  
any looser, i find the attenuation to be enough (not the 27+ dB you get from  
the plugs used as directed) and the freq. balance to be pleasant.

they may not be the best technology around, but they're reliable and cheap -  
you can get 'em in boxes of 200 pairs from Lab Safety Supply Company
(800 356 0783) for $30.95.

i've suggested to a few producers that they make these freely available at  
events.  the idea hasn't been popular - the objections seem to be that to  
offer earplugs would be to admit that the music is "too loud".  or that it  
would dampen the spirit of fun by introducing a health concern.

i don't buy either line of reasoning.  i like the music loud enough to  
subtend consciousness - so the whole body "hears" it - it's just that my ear  
sensitivity and body sensitivity to sound need a little equalization.  and i  
won't have any fun if i'm concerned about hearing loss.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 11:09:36 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 09:52:08 PDT
Subject: Earplugs (was Re: About Your Sister's House )

>i've suggested to a few producers that they make these freely available at  
>events.  the idea hasn't been popular - the objections seem to be that to  
>offer earplugs would be to admit that the music is "too loud".  or that it  
>would dampen the spirit of fun by introducing a health concern.

what a crock of shit.  there is this attitude in the scene that really
bothers me - the "shoot the party and let god sort it out" type.  "oh,
i'll just take twenty tabs of E and let the good vibes take care of
me."  this is a nice idea but you're just as likely to end up dead of
heatstroke as enlightened.

watching people overdose on E, not drinking enough water, taking speed
to stay up for days on end, and standing in speaker cabinets that can
give them permanent tinnitus is Not Fun.  can we produce some sort of
"Rave Responsibly" flyer and start distributing it?  when that fire
started at Let Freedom Rave, i was sure it was the death-knell for the
scene.  we were very lucky that time!  but how much longer can we
squeak by on a wing & a prayer?

sorry to be such a crushing boring realist, but, to quote captain
kirk, I Want Answers, Mister!

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 11:46:53 1993
From: elizabet@cadence.com (Elizabeth Medel)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 10:32:30 -0700
Subject: Southbay SFR Lunch

This is my last post for a leetle while as I'm going to embark on 
a new adventure - childbirth! I'm trying to sort the details of having
my system brought home so hopefully I'll be back on line soon. I'll be
coming to the lunches as long as I can (I still have about 3.5 more weeks
or so?!), so I'll still have a chance to see some of you.

In the meantime, groovy Larry Ching will be posting the lunches and I thank
him!

See all of you soon and thanks for all of your luv and happy vibes.

Elizabeth.

******************************************************************************
When: This Thursday, 15 July
Time: 12.00 noon
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit

* Left at the first signal (West Bayshore - it's a frontage road 
  that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass appartment complex on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Park in the first
  carpark to your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll (under the *shade* tree, behind 
  the besbol diamond)

Bring lunch, music, toys, yourselves!

Hope to see you there!!

Elizabeth.




----- End Included Message -----


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 12:00:54 1993
From: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Date: 13 Jul 1993 10:43:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: south of the border

Anyone know any happenin' joints in Tahiti???

Moorea, specifically??

Just Curious  (headed out at midnite)

Dave Scruton "Celtic Warrior"
Hughes Aircraft

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 12:23:49 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 11:08:13 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: cyberfest


Bob Ramstad says:

> methinks that this estimate (2-3K) is low.  it's hyped to the gills,
> and even people in LA are talking about it as the big kahuna.  it's

I saw a full page ad in Urb for Cyberfest.


-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 12:50:27 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 14:31:09 EDT
Subject: Weekend in LA

They wouldn't let you bring in water???!!?

Gads what is this world coming to? Won't be long before they start
charging an "oxygen fee" for breathing their air...

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 13:03:58 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 11:41:41 PDT
Subject: Ear Damage


As someone with a low degree of tinnitus from too many loud shows generally,
most pre-rave, I can say unequivocally that speaker-tweeking WILL give
you permanent hearing damage.  If your ears ring afterward, you've done
some damage.  If they ring the next day, you've likely done some permanent
damage.  Not enough research has been done here; we don't know why some 
people just lose high frequencies and some get tinnitus.  (What
is that?  When the ringing doesn't go away.  It sucks.)

THere's an organization called H.E.A.R. that does things at some rock
shows like hand out earplugs, send out educational flyers, etc.  Perhaps
something similar would be nice -- selling bulk earplugs at/near cost
or just giving them away.  An info flyer would be good too.

Often I miss the foam ones, so here's a known workable solution.
Get some TP.  If it's nice and soft, use one square.  If it's the
crummy thin institutional kind, use two.  Fold it over itself repeatedly
until you end up with a roughly 1/2" by 1" rectangle (maybe a bit smaller).
Dip it in the sink to get it water-saturated.  Roll it into a cylinder
and moosh it into your ear.  This works even better on the high end than
the foam ones -- and since the mid-highs are what hurts my ears most it's
perfect.  Tweeking can still cause problems because they don't stop bass
and the sheer amplitude can cause ouchness, but it's better than no protection
at all.

If there is no TP try part of a napkin.  If there are no napkins or (worst)
paper towels you're probably at 16th & Harrison and should leave 
immediately. >^/  I usually bring some from home.

// g

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 13:48:07 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 12:41:05 -0700
Subject: ear plugs


       there are some brands of earplugs out there that try
        to achieve even attenuation across the whole sonic
        spectrum.  the kind i use are 'sonic ii' and work quite
        well.  i got them at musicians trading post in santa
        cruz but they can be found elsewhere.  the come in a
        cool little blue case that i wear on my necklace when
        i go to these loud parties we love so much...

calirock


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 14:15:53 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 13:00:45 -0700
Subject: Re:  Rave Music on KQED TV show

I've seen Rough Guides as well, it's an interesting if somewhat fragmented
program.  Hi, here we are in Ibiza.  Five minutes later, they're in Jamaica,
then suddenly in New Zealand.  Or whatever.  They definitely prefer housey
technoey stuff over the synthpop goo that dominates the airwaves in many
of those places.  

I've also noticed quite a few commercial spots using techno-sounding tracks,
sort of audio wallpaper.  Without bass bins attached, it kind of doesn't
have the same feeling, no?  :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 14:26:11 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 13:03:35 PDT
Subject: Ear Aid

On a related note, there have been occasions where the music was
NOT LOUD ENOUGH.  The Channeling fiasco of a few weeks ago was my
most recent experience with this.  I was thinking of purchasing
a couple of Miracle Ear hearing aids for these situations, but I
would like to know the frequency response of these units (specifically
the miniature size) before I do so.  Does anyone know exactly how
much amplification they provide?

- lego feel

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 14:51:44 1993
From: Ray_Uribe@mailgate.sfsu.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 13:39:00 PST
Subject: what's happenin'

suscribe


From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 15:37:21 1993
From: Peter Kennard <peterk@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 14:15:41 -0700
Subject: Tweaked sound

I will second the appropriateness of earplugs.  I did a lot of club 
audio work in New York in the mid seventies and a lot of promoters and 
DJs were going deaf to highs.  I started using earplugs then.  I got 
out of the sound business because I couldn't deal ethicly with having 
to artificially over amplify the highs to compensate for the 
management's deafness and make it all sound great to them and lousy to 
undeafened dancers.  There were others who didn't mind doing this.  The 
attenuation of highs offered by some of the foam earplugs will actually 
make many systems tuned this way sound better to virgin ears.
 
    I LOVE music and want to hear it for a good long time!  Rave on...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 16:51:22 1993
From: tt1@netcom.com (Todd Tibbetts)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 16:02:59 PDT
Subject: =={ NE-raves sticker on me car }==

Howdy Folks:

        two questions:

                1)  I've been in town two weeks and twice I've been
                    flagged down by groovie dudes saying, "Yo! we are
                    on SFraves-->join up." (after seeing my ne-raves
                    bumper sticker.)  Welp, here I is.  You guys on line?

                2)  Anybody on the list do 1050 Folsom on Sun.  mornings?
                    I'll be there again this sunday.

YOWZA

tt

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 17:11:23 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 16:05:53 PDT
Subject: re: Weekend in LA


> Won't be long before they start charging an "oxygen fee" for breathing
> their air...

Right.  All they have to do is make sure the space is so densely polluted
with fog and cigarette smoke.  Then they could sell ballons of oxygen at
the bar.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 17:36:59 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 16:01:23 -0700
Subject: Re:Water problems at some events



I have had the same problem myself with not being allowed to bring 
water in to an event.  They do this in order to sell you water for 
a ridiculous amount of money.  
Then if there are no taps you cannot even refill the cup that you 
purchased.  
There have been documented cases of people that overheated and were 
not allowed water because the taps were shut off.
It is a sick thing all these money hungry people. And I agree that 
this greed could kill the scene.  The worst part of this whole thing 
is that the events that charge the most money are the ones not allowing 
water. 
I have in fact gone to another party when in line, they refused to 
let us in with our water.  In fact ,there was a huge garbage can 
filled with full water bottles from other people. And I did make 
a scene, so much that the bouncer offered to give me free water tickets. 
Oh what a compensation!! I left in disgust and took 6 of my friends 
totalling $120.00 with me. 
It is absurd what these people are trying to do and we must stop 
it!!


There I feel better now.
:-)


vivianm

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 17:53:36 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 16:26:13 -0700
Subject: Re:  Ear Aid

	bad idea to use hearing aids.  what gets us off with
	all this loud sound is the low frequencies, feeling
	the speakers move the air around us and move the surface 
	of our bodies.  hearing aids will do nothing to 
	enhance this.  all loud high and mid range stuff does
	is damage your hearing.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 18:00:23 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 16:51:38 PDT
Subject: Re:  Ear Aid


> 	bad idea to use hearing aids.  what gets us off with
> 	all this loud sound is the low frequencies, feeling
> 	the speakers move the air around us and move the surface 
> 	of our bodies.

Perhaps a larger version of a hearing aid could be constructed
with built in subwoofers held a few inches from each ear by
some kind of head assembly.  I could drive them with a portable 
power supply hanging from my belt.  

- lego feel

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 18:13:02 1993
From: "Peter S. Morris" <ez003475@rocky.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 16:18:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Earplugs...

Greetings!!!
Since there is so much saved by using these 
squishy things, I suggest someone go buy a box
and see if the promoters of an event will let you in
for free if you hand these out to the masses inside!!! 
Who knows , it just may work!!
You get the satisfaction of saving someone 
elses hearing and are able to listen to 
good music at the same time..
Just a thought.......

Peter...., 
"Enough Buckets of Water, a River....
       Enough Shovels Full of Dirt, a Mountain...."



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 19:52:15 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 18:44:01 -0700
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

hmmm.  I have it in my heart to go camping this weekend, and I also have it
in my heart to go to Pyramid Lake.  I hope everything works out for htis
event, if not, I will be in Nevada camping somewhere!   Peace   ---Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 20:13:07 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 18:54:22 -0700
Subject: Re:  Water problems at the Malachi benefit..

At the last Malachy benefit at the Richmond Civic, I went inside to find
that they were not selling bottled water.  I absolutely have to have water
in hand at all times, especially if I am in any enhanced state.  The people
there were nice and let me go back outside to my car and get my liter
bottle.  At the meeting tomorrow night, I will ask about this and tell my
story if need be.  (sorry, the meeting for the next Unity, Mal benefit).
Water, the liquid of life.... --Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 20:20:07 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 19:07:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Earplugs (was Re: About Your Sister's House )

Jon Drukman went on...:

>>i've suggested to a few producers that they make these freely available at  
>>events.  the idea hasn't been popular - the objections seem to be that to  
>>offer earplugs would be to admit that the music is "too loud".  or that it  
>>would dampen the spirit of fun by introducing a health concern.
>
>what a crock of shit.  there is this attitude in the scene that really
>bothers me - the "shoot the party and let god sort it out" type.  "oh,
>i'll just take twenty tabs of E and let the good vibes take care of
>me."  this is a nice idea but you're just as likely to end up dead of
>heatstroke as enlightened.
>
>watching people overdose on E, not drinking enough water, taking speed
>to stay up for days on end, and standing in speaker cabinets that can
>give them permanent tinnitus is Not Fun.  can we produce some sort of
>"Rave Responsibly" flyer and start distributing it?  when that fire
>started at Let Freedom Rave, i was sure it was the death-knell for the
>scene.  we were very lucky that time!  but how much longer can we
>squeak by on a wing & a prayer?
>
>sorry to be such a crushing boring realist, but, to quote captain
>kirk, I Want Answers, Mister!
>
>Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

As for people taking drugs, it is their responsibility to take then
responsibly.  As for the no-water...it depends on the venue.  Promoters
should allow backpacks in, but some places (mostly those that serve booze)
are reluctant to allow water bottles in since it cuts from their selling of
alcohol products.  But I take an even more pragmatic stance.  Go to a
massive, you will usually get what's coming to you. Massives are very
confused, and people go for all kinds of confused reasons.  The promoters
of these events are usually confused themselves as to whether or not they
are providing something different and good for the community or just lining
their pockets.  In most cases it is pocket lining time.  There are VERY few
promoters who even care how people are being treated at their parties. 
They could care less that the security are being assholes (remember, the
promoter has DIRECT influence as to how situations are to be treated), or
that taps have been turned off denying people free access to h2o.

Maybe if people would stop going to these massives where everything is
unfocused and confused we can get back the the reality of parties in the
first place....to connect.  Difficult to do when there's 1000+ people.  The
history of this scene has proved that.  Also, LA of all places...when I
heard that it was going to be there I knew to stay home.  LA's scene is a
perfect example of confusion taken to new heights.  The promoters there are
WELL known for ripping people off.  They are also well known for making
bank, as well as losing bank too!  LA is LA and like many things it will be
a long time before any turn-around.

But I digress, you want answers:

1 - Start your own party.  You know what you like and dislike.  If you can
do it better, do it and show the rest of the community what's up!  
2 - Support those people who are doing the type of party YOU like, your
friends will follow.
3 - Stay away from parties you don't like.  Give a promoter a chance, two
if you're generous.  If you don't like it.  Don't go again.  And let people
know you ain't goin.  Bad vibe?  Screw that!  Bad vibe is created by people
not being honest and up front with what they do.  Presenting something as
one thing and then screwing people over ($3.00 for what?) isn't helping
anyone, but THEMSELVES.  Why support it?  Why perpetuate it by showing up? 
This will also put promoters on alert that lame shit don't play, and if
you're gonna do something either have your heart, soul, and mind into it or
don't do parties!  


The things I have said above I follow.  I've made it a point (since moving
from that tepid scene in LA), to know who's what and who's doing what.  I
give people 1 chance, 2 if I'm x-ing to show me that they care.  If they
don't I never go to any of their events, ever again.  

I rarely complain when I go out.  And even when I get comp'ed I put myself
in the role (always) as a person who pays and think "If I paid $10-$20
would I like this?"  If not I walk out.  And if it's a bad party I'll tell
all of my friends that I thought it was weak.  Recently when I paid at
events I have ALWAYS had a good time because I am very selective about
where I go, and how I'm gonna spend my money.  A good promoter/producer can
throw a different party every time if s/he wants, so I usually get to know
who the promoter is....ok screw it.  Well known promoters/parties:

Preston/Groove Kitchen,Boogie Buffet (to name a VERY few).
Dianna/Team Green,Love Garage (to name a VERY few).
Martin/Gathering,Basics (to name a VERY few).
Kevin/Funk Technotribe,Feel-X (to name a VERY few).
Halim/Sharon,Sharon-Theme (to name a VERY few).
Alan&Trish/Wicked+,Full Moon+ (the + is to indicate that this is a posse!)
Mark/Where the Wild Things Are.
Michael/Techknowledgy[sic],Juice.
Martel/Martinis (to name a VERY few).

There are more, but these guys are the old school old-timers.  I don't want
to give you all the promoters (there are many, many more), but these are
the people who have stuck it out.  Preston/Dianna are the godparents of
most of this scene (many may argue, they MAY..) which is why they are first
on the list.  The rest are in the order they came spewing out of my head. 
The new school (myself included) will be named later.  And as many of you
know there is even a newer school that many of the people on this list are
a part of.  Just talk to people and introduce yourself to others outside of
your clique.  Make new friends!  Create your own scene! (Beleive me, during
these dogged days it's good to have friends that you can stay indoors in a
non-party setting with...it get's your focus back!). 

I was talking to a friend of mine who is another old-school person.  She
and I both agreed that for some unknown reason, the summer is the HARDEST
time for parties.  This summer is one of the toughest.  There is a
recycling of "rave" personnel goin on, and those who can hang on will be
here during the fall when things get rolling again, and hopefully in a more
positive light.  Until then, fasten your seatbelts...it gets bumpy from
here.

>can we produce some sort of
>"Rave Responsibly" flyer and start distributing it?  when that fire
>started at Let Freedom Rave, i was sure it was the death-knell for the
>scene.  we were very lucky that time!  but how much longer can we
>squeak by on a wing & a prayer?

People can't read when they are high, and it's been done.  Most people
could care less during a party.  Save the paper.  The death-knell of this
scene is complacency and people WAITING for others to throw a good event
instead of doing it themselves.  If you can count the money you have spent
going to parties over the past 2 years here in SF (extras included), you
probably had enough to throw 8 small intimate events (250+), and make about
$50 for yourself.  Do it underground, do it underground, do it underground!
 By the fall, that is where everyone will end up anyway.

Peace.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+             The rumors of my demise were, at best, virtual.              +
+                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com                       +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 20:38:32 1993
From: Michael.Dagn@lsupoz.apana.org.au
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 03:48:46 GMT
Subject: Help-What's on in L.A ??

 
A friend of mine is going to Los Angeles in early August.
 
Could anyone let me know of any good Raves/Clubs/Radio Shows
that are happening around the first week of August...?
 
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| email: au535@cleveland.freenet.edu / Michael Dagn @ 3:712/634 |
| DJ MD (Michael Dagn) of....  michael.dagn@lsupoz.apana.org.au |
| M     D     A  SYDNEY, Australia    Phone: ++61-2-3993554     |
| Music Dance Aesthetic  Saturday Nights 10pm-2am  2RSR 88.9MHz |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

-- 


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 22:14:53 1993
From: timoteo@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Timothy Blair Lane)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 21:20:23 -0700
Subject: Re: account murphy@ucscb.ucsc.edu

hi! this is marlo (using my housemates account which i will have access to).
anyhow, my former account murphy is no longer in existence.  i won't have an
account of my own until i get one after enrolling in classes at the end of
august or until i get a netcom account or something like that. anyway.....:(
you can contact me at this address until i post otherwise. bye bye!
-marlo:) [now sorta timoteo@ucscb.ucsc.edu]

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 22:33:31 1993
From: jpp@markv.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 21:34:22 PDT
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

  I, a newbie to this list, will be at pyramid lake with PGP disks.  I
will also bring a MS DOS machine for certifying keys.  I would love to
meet other 'sfrave'ers there.  I will be commuting from LA, so if
other readers in LA want to vehicle-pool, please reply to me.

j'
--
                O I am Jay Prime Positive jpp@markv.com 
1250 bit key fingerprint =  B8 95 E0 AF 9A A2 CD A5  89 C9 F0 FE B4 3A 2C 3F
 524 bit key fingerprint =  8A 7C B9 F2 D5 46 4D ED  66 23 F1 71 DE FF 51 48
Public keys by `finger jpp @hermix.markv.com' or pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu
Your feedback is welcome, directly or via symbol JPP on hex@sea.east.sun.com

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 22:40:14 1993
From: geoffw@marcorp.com (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 18:01:52 PDT
Subject: Re:  Ear Aid


> From uupsi!techno.Stanford.EDU!SFRaves-request Tue Jul 13 17:41:30 1993
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 16:26:13 -0700
> From: rocky mullin <uupsi!soda.berkeley.edu!caliban>
> To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re:  Ear Aid
> Content-Length: 297
> 
> 	bad idea to use hearing aids.  what gets us off with
> 	all this loud sound is the low frequencies, feeling
> 	the speakers move the air around us and move the surface 
> 	of our bodies.  hearing aids will do nothing to 
> 	enhance this.  all loud high and mid range stuff does
> 	is damage your hearing.
> 
> 
Um, speak for yourself brian,  I need the highs to enter trance state,
It's just something about those high hats...

Now bass is great and I like to feel it in my solar plexus but I need the
highs (perferably alternating between left and right speakers) to send me
out...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 23:29:04 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 22:44:03 -0700
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

PYRAMID LAKE UPDATE.  I spoke with Steven, a man who answered one of the 702
numbers on the Pyramid Lake flyer, and he confirmed that the location has
been changed.  It will no longer be on the Paiute Reservation, but instead
will be located on a private ranch about four miles from the lake.

Take I-80 to Reno.  Take Pyramid Way north.  Go about 16 miles.  Take a left
on Winnamucca Ranch Road.  Go four miles.  You will see the party site on
the right.  Steven said there will be shuttles all day long to and from the
lake which is about four miles away.  He said there would be a discount, tha
that the three day event would probably be $25 with daily being $15, but
he was not %100 certain until after their meeting this evening.  So that is
the update.  

--Mau    

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 23:46:20 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 22:39:37 PDT
Subject: RE: Earplugs


My comments on earplugs:

1. I have noticed that , in some clubs and other music venues , that 
   earplugs do shift the frequency balance back to a more even 
   balance ; as if the music has too much high end to begin with.

2. My favorite earplugs used to be made of the "institutional" 
   toilet paper that used to be at The Stone in Palo Alto ( before
   that club became The Edge ). One-third sheet , damped ( preferably 
   with bourbon :-) ) , in each ear had an amazingly flat response.

3. Those musician's earplugs are a little too big in diameter for my
   ears , but they do chop the sound down with too much high-end 
   attenuation ( in porportion to the rest of the spectrum ).

4. I was playing with a wad of Silly Putty (tm) , and I noticed that
   it would deform with slow compression , but would resist sudden
   deformation forces. So - someday , I'm going to buy an egg of
   Silly Putty (tm) and wrap little peas of it into squares of 
   kitchen plastic wrap , and try them as earplugs. If the behavior
   carries over into audio frequencies, these plugs will pass
   high frequencies more than low frequencies , which is directly
   opposite to the behavior of present earplugs ( Geoff - I'll
   report the results to you first !  :-)  ).

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 13 23:55:55 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 22:53:59 -0700
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

Have a great time!!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 03:33:13 1993
From: hyland@netcom.com (Tim Hyland)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 2:50:08 PDT
Subject: re: Weekend in LA

Michael Wertheim wrote:
> Right.  All they have to do is make sure the space is so densely polluted
> with fog and cigarette smoke.  Then they could sell ballons of oxygen at
> the bar.

A couple years ago, say maybe Recess-era, oxygen cocktails were fairly
popular (where popular means that a number of parties/clubs had them
-- I don't know if anyone actually bought them).  I think Care*Free
had Oxygen cocktails, too.  The oxygen cocktails were usually fruit
juice or a smart drink through which oxygen had been bubbled -- fairly
low tech.

I also noticed that at the DNA lounge upstairs at the espresso bar,
they had oxygen cocktails and oxygen balloons.  Never had a chance to
try one, though...  :-)


Share and Enjoy,

Tim

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 07:17:54 1993
From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:13:03 GMT
Subject: Speak up, I can't quite hear!


All this earplug talk! People, get out and listen loud - by the time most
of us begin to lose our hearing as a result of loud music, the advance of
technology will have happily provided us with *NEW!*, inexepnsive
replacement hearing systems.

Same goes for your lungs, smokers! so don cha worry 'bout a thing.....


Miles



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 08:42:23 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 07:31:19 PDT
Subject: RIDE needed to I-MAGI-NATION



	geoffw needs a ride to i-magi-nation, I will also be carrying 
	gear for a three day camp out (tent sleeping bag, tarp, water,food)
	I would preferably like to go with someone who is going to 
	"stay the course".  I'm prepared to leave anytime friday and don't
	have to be back until monday.  I can share travel expenses and driving
	and in addition am cute, fun to be with, and always provide a lot of
	interesting conversation :)

	E-mail me here if you have room or would like to explore this further.
	Or just call...

				- G
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEXUS SYSTEMS/CYBERTRIBE-5 : Voice:(415)965-2384   Fax: (415)327-6416
Editor/Instigator/Catalyst : Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>
Production Crew		   : Universal Movement Trinity <umt@nexsys.net>

        "They might stop the party, but they can't stop the future"

		--PGP Public key available upon request--
      If I can't Trance, I don't want to be part of your revolution.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 09:05:40 1993
From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 15:55:02 GMT
Subject: UNIVERSE dancer-ess!

One of the Universe dancers is moving to the bay, she hopes to continue
her trade once there. Do the SF parties employ professional dancers? 
Miles. Trying to waste as little bandwidth as poss. Sept 18th IS confirmed*8)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 13:32:31 1993
From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 12:27:02 PDT
Subject: IMO 



>events I have ALWAYS had a good time because I am very selective about
>where I go, and how I'm gonna spend my money.  A good promoter/producer can
>throw a different party every time if s/he wants, so I usually get to know
>who the promoter is....ok screw it.  Well known promoters/parties:

>Preston/Groove Kitchen,Boogie Buffet (to name a VERY few).
>Dianna/Team Green,Love Garage (to name a VERY few).
>Martin/Gathering,Basics (to name a VERY few).
>Kevin/Funk Technotribe,Feel-X (to name a VERY few).
>Halim/Sharon,Sharon-Theme (to name a VERY few).
>Alan&Trish/Wicked+,Full Moon+ (the + is to indicate that this is a posse!)
>Mark/Where the Wild Things Are.
>Michael/Techknowledgy[sic],Juice.
>Martel/Martinis (to name a VERY few).

... ok screw it, here are my favorite tv theme songs:

Streets of San Francisco  (to name a very few)
Mary Tyler Moore Show (to name a very few)
old Bob Newhart (to name three of 'em)
Rockford Files (especially the answering machine message!)

yes, i do think i am pretty funny ;)

Posts like this one from Mr. Lee are good.  Pre-event commentary (like
in the calendar) is fair game IMO.

Now I don't want to instigate some kind of bitchfest but if you feel
*strongly* about an event (one way or the other) it is nice to hear
about it.

Dave



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 13:57:10 1993
From: kalpana.com!randyb@nexsys.net (Randy Bias)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: RIDE needed to I-MAGI-NATION

>	and in addition am cute, fun to be with, and always provide a lot of
>	interesting conversation :)
Not to mention cuddly... :)

--Randy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 14:24:04 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:22:10 PDT
Subject: Re: IMO

David Alves sez:
> 
> Streets of San Francisco  (to name a very few)

Killer theme!

> Mary Tyler Moore Show (to name a very few)

eh, kinda wimpy but not bad

> old Bob Newhart (to name three of 'em)

don't remember it...

> Rockford Files (especially the answering machine message!)

Yep, a goodun

But what about these?  They're my favorites:

Hawaii Five-0
The Six Million Dollar Man/Bionic Woman/Hermaphrodite
Daaaance Fee-ver (had to have something rave related :-) :-)
Gilligan's Island
Square Pegs
The Equalizer

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
            "Unk!  Bull manganee" - Tarzan, lord of the jungle
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 15:43:42 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:23:56 PDT
Subject: Pac Bell

completely unrelated to raves...

DOES anyone have the Pac Bell Message Center???
cuz if so, it could make for very cheap up/down the coast
communication...
and it would also be a neat idea to have a pac bell
rave voice mail group to send mass messages to when necesary

just a thought

btw my mailbox is 7145099323

 ,
dana

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 16:55:47 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:55:39 PDT
Subject: Re:Water problems at some events

 this:
-------------
Oh what a compensation!! I left in disgust and took 6 of my friends 
totalling $120.00 with me.
	  ^^^^^^^
-------------

Will get more attention than anything else.

Lat,

*



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 17:09:58 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:23:27 PDT
Subject: FlemGlobber (what you cough up after raving too hard?)


Did anyone go to Flem Globber?  Janie vetoed going because of the name.
The only rave I've heard of with a worse name than that was one called 
After Birth, but now that I thing of it, wasn't there a rave called 
Xcrement a while back?  Er, no, that was X-Lax.  And on that note

...

I did, it was an interesting affair, involving the usual scrambling
 involved with one or more changes of venue... I heard at the original
 site (thunder bay) that they had wanted it outside but did NOT get the
 correct permits-they get one full-service Jack spanking for that silliness;
 I would have thought that everyone around here got the joke about permits.
  It finally got going around 4 and lasted till ~8, I had a great time
 once it finally started.  I heard Dutch, I think, who was very good, as well
 as others... I would definitely go to another, but they ought to get the
 permit stuff in order, not doing so is just plain stupid.

-=Jack=-

  "now you're lookin' back...
   all dogs must chase the cat"

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 17:19:21 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 16:05:09 -0700
Subject: Re:  Ear Aid


lee fogel sez:

Perhaps a larger version of a hearing aid could be constructed
with built in subwoofers held a few inches from each ear by
some kind of head assembly.  I could drive them with a portable
power supply hanging from my belt.

        this will not really work for a number of reasons.
        subwoofer speakers ane enclosures need to be too
        big and heavy to wear is the main flaw in this plan.
        they also need lots of amplification to move all that
        air that feels good to your body.  it is alot easier
        and cheaper to wear earplugs and lean on the speakers.

caliban


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 17:55:01 1993
From: markv.com!jpp@nexsys.net
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 15:44:18 PDT
Subject: Re: RIDE needed to I-MAGI-NATION

> >	interesting conversation :)
> Not to mention cuddly... :)
Cuddly conversation!? :)
j'

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 19:33:57 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 17:24:10 PDT
Subject: Speak, Fido!  (was: Weekend in LA)


N2O is an oxidizer, but there needs to be substantial amounts of flame
and combustible material before it'll enhance combustion.  I've seen
it used in "water pipe" designs where the gas intake was quite close
to open flame, never any problems.  It's not "flammable" in any normal
sense.  (some detergents are oxidizers too, you can't light them with
a lighter, but they will do crazy stuff if mixed with gunpowder)

Bob

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 19:34:32 1993
From: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 18:51:39 PDT
Subject: Re: Aurgasm


	Good to see some of you sfravers there, apologies for running
around and not getting a chance to chat with y'all much.  Things were
very hectic projector-wise for a while there. (and there was a little
"this projector's burning!" incident too).  Well, i've never claimed to be 
the most organized visualhead around...

from leg of eel:
>Mark Heley & crew put a lot of effort into creating a spiritual/ceremonial
>environment.  There were altars set up all around the perimeter and in

The place was done up beautifully!  The entrance hallway was all done
in red - lots of draped red fabric, red lighting, hundreds of roses,
apples (which came in very handy throughout the evening), pictures, all
kinds of odds and ends.  And i really liked all the candles around the 
DJ area.  What was really amazing about it is that all
this stuff got put up in a couple hours -- we had hoped to start setting
up around 4 or 5, but couldn't get anyone to unlock the place till after
8.  i hadn't realized before how much effort you could put into the 
details in a short time, when you don't have to worry about getting 
busted or whether the sound system's going to show up...

Anyway, i had been looking forward to this as sort of the debut of a lot
of my visuals stuff -- i've done a few things before, but this is the
first time i've done an event with a fair number of projectors.  Josh 
was also doing visuals, so i picked up some good tips from him -- it was
great having someone around who's been doing this a while to get advice
from.  And to trade lenses with :)
	Well, i had fun with the visuals, tho i didn't get to all the
stuff i had planned -- one of my homebrew controllers shorted out the
electricity in the area of the balcony i had set up in.  Once the
power came back on i was somewhat reluctant to use those toys, so i
basicly set my reliable stuff on autopilot and enjoyed the rest of the
night.  Hope to have more stuff working this weekend.
	Really liked the vibe, especially early in the evening during 
the ambient set.  Lots of chanting/humming, digeridoo, generally 
interesting trippy/spiritual stuff being played.  People hanging out
on a big pile of bean bags in the middle of the dance floor, checking
out the altars (with lots of stuff to both look at and read).  Had a 
UV set-up in the balcony, with flourescent paints for people to paint
each other, and some paper to paint on too.  And in front of that, a big
bubble wand.  The bubbles looked really amazing under UV.

>beanbags were brought upstairs, clearing the dance floor.  Some
>guy in a hooded black robe did some kind of cermonial dance which
>consisted of standing still, pointing with a rod, turning, pointing,
>turning, etc.  Very rigid, somewhat grim and pretty boring, but I've
>never been a big fan of overly structured ceremonies.  He was
>joined by 3 other serious looking dudes and they spend a few minutes
>doing choreographed poses that must have had some significance, for
>them anyway.  Whatever.  I guess it added a certain amount of
>mysticism to the evening.

This guy is a chaos magician (whatever that is), so we all kind of 
assumed that his ceremony would be somewhat more, err, chaotic.
One of the people who put a lot of effort into the altars said pretty
much the same thing you did -- added a twist to the evening, but too
structured.  So the collective is creating less structured, more 
interactive ceremonies.  Also we want to have some info out this next 
time explaining the ritual/ceremonial part.
	Liked the trance part too, though by the time it was over i was
fading fast (i stayed up most of the night before making slides for the
visuals).  Crowd had thinned out too.  Hope there's more people this
weekend, this is an event worth supporting (biased? me?).
	Actually slept some during the "deep sessions" -- it was plenty
loud enough, i was just exhausted.  And then it was time to pack up.
The owner gave us 1 hour to clear out everything, which amazingly we
managed to do.

				had a great time,
				can't stop thinking about it,
				and what it will be like this weekend,
				gregg



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 19:44:34 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:10:57 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Speak, Fido!  (was: Weekend in LA)



> I also noticed that at the DNA lounge upstairs at the espresso bar,
> they had oxygen cocktails and oxygen balloons.  Never had a chance to
> try one, though...  :-)

Hmmm... know how to make your O2 balloon bark like a dog?  Get that
cigarette just a bit to close and WOOF!!

Anybody know the volatility of N20?



-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 14 23:07:21 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 22:14:54 PDT
Subject: Aurgasm Questions


I have questions about Aurgasm -

 Is it supposed to be an all-nighter ? If so , what's the planned closing
time? I may take the train up to it , stay all night , and catch the train 
back down. The catch is - the first train in the morning on Sunday is 8:00AM,
which leaves me a lot of time to kill if Aurgasm ends at 5AM. 

 On the other hand , 3 hours may not be too bad , if there's someplace 
closeby to hangout in. I've never tried that corner diner - is it any
good ( food wise and attitude wise - do they let people hang out and
nurse cups of coffee? )

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
-- 

From bbehlen@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 00:11:09 1993
From: bbehlen@techno.Stanford.EDU (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 23:26:02 PDT
Subject: Pyramid lake moved to Tahoe? (fwd)

Forwarded message:
> From crunch@netcom.com Wed Jul 14 23:17:39 1993
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 23:18:19 -0700
> From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
> Message-Id: <9307150618.AA27242@netcom2.netcom.com>
> To: SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Pyramid lake moved to Tahoe?
> 
> 
> After calling the (415) 337-4905 number,  they have a recording on it
> that says the Pyramid lake rave got moved to South Lake Tahoe.   Is
> this true?   According to the recording,  it says to take 80 to Sacramento,
> then 50 to S. Lake Tahoe to 89.   89 to 88 junction,  rt towards
> Kirkwood,  look for big trees...
> 
> Better phone this number yourself to verify these directions,  as I had
> to phone it several times to copy it down,  and I might have made a 
> mistake.
> 
> Cheers
> JD
> 
> 
> Would someone who knows more precise directions pleeze post the
> directions here,  or at least Email me...
> 
> Thanx
> JD
> 


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 02:43:21 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 01:37:36 -0700
Subject: Re:  Aurgasm Questions

Just think "Boogie Buffet" after Aurgasm, Larry :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 09:04:32 1993
From: Edward Potter <ejp@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 08:07:43 -0700
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe me
Note if you could tel me that I could get a folder for
each day of RAVE notes, then I would'nt have to unsubscribe!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 09:52:15 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 08:09:20 -0700
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

P Y R A M I D  L A K E  U P D A T E   *****  I M A G I N A T I O N
MOVED TO HOPE VALLEY CALIFORNIA.

That's right.  The word from Steven, one of the producers in Nevada, is that
due to Christian Fundamentalist pressure and politics, the party has been
moved to.......T H E   F O R E S T!!!!  yes, you heard correctly.  The party
will now take place on Forest Service Land at 7000'.

Before, the primary concern was the desert heat.  The new concern is that
the temperature may drop to as low as 30 degrees in the wee hours of the
morning, 2 AM - 6 AM ish.  So, he urges that everyone be prepared for that.

Please call the info lines for source directions, for 100% accuracy.  What I
think I remember being told last night was take Hwy 80, to 50, to 89, to 88.
 It's a right on 88 for four milees and the party is on the left.  ( I just
spoke with Steven and this is 100!% correct).

Note, I just spoke with him seconds ago.  Also, there is a stream on the
land.  

Closing thoughts.  I commend the producers for having so many killer back up
venues.  Regarding the fundamantalists, apparently these people were ripping
down posters, removing flyers from all stores, etc. and went so far as to
pressure the owner of ranch for the second site, convinced him that we were
all into sex, drugs, and rock and roll and were Satanists...:).  This
confirms my belief that we are going to have to fight to keep the House
Movement alive...the fighting can be gentle and done like it was above with
intelligence, having back up venues, communication ( please tell EVERYONE
you know of the change regardless of whether they are going or not.  They
may know someone who is.  The more who are told of this update, the fewer
folks end up having to drive an additional two hours from Pyramid Lake down
395 through Reno, then up 88 into the mountains), etc.  --  Peace
--Maureen

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 11:00:09 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 08:59:02 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Ear Aid


rocky mullin says:

> it is alot easier and cheaper to wear earplugs and lean on the speakers.

No, no, no.  You want to climb *inside* the bass bins.  It does make it hard
to dance, but you can *really* feel the bass.  The other advantage to this
technique is the highs are greatly attenuated so you don't have to have
slimy wads of toilet paper stuck into your ears.


-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 11:16:05 1993
From: saucyboy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 05:53:58 EDT
Subject: tooooo unlimited

Well,
Wednesday night, I went for the 2Unlimited experience over in Modesto. This
was about an hour away from Sacramento. They were supposed to play at 10pm,
yet I'd guess it was nearly midnight when they finally came on. The dancers
were very good - they did some interesting routines. Of course the only
"live" aspect of the show were the lyrics, but the guy did a swell job of
rapping the crowd into a hyper bunch, while the female's vocals were nice.
And yes, I must admit, it was fun shouting "GO! GO!" along with the band.
Some parts were a bit cheesy, like when he would say "jump! jump!" and the
crowd would all jump with their hands in the air. I just grinned and kept on
dancing. The majority of the crowd were dressed kind of trendy/KMEL, but many
of these folks were friendlier than a couple of the "raver dressed" folks,
who seemed to flaunt attitudes.  Anyway, just wanted to say that overall, it
was a fun time. 2Unlimited played a short set, but it was very high energy;
and the dj was cool before and after the show, so I felt I got my fifteen
bucks worth. My only complaint was the amount of alcohol being consumed. Bud
Light a-plenty doesn't seem to put folks into a mood I enjoy.

seth

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 11:43:38 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 11:19:55 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Ear Aid

> No, no, no.  You want to climb *inside* the bass bins.  It does make it hard
> to dance, but you can *really* feel the bass.

Shiva's Erotic Temple?

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 11:52:24 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 10:03:56 PDT
Subject: Re:  cyberfest/PA Lunch



Probably not (going to PA lunch), but give us a call at


(415) 771-7017 (h)
(415) 940-2263 (w)
(415) 719-5750 (page)

We will be leaving my house at about 10: 30 PM Saturday night.  We are
 also going to be watching "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" at 8PM on cable,
which you are welcome to join as well.  It's *very* stupid, but we like
it...it's not a full on party, so to speak, but we'll have munchies &
the rest is BYO-whatever.

PS: that goes for the rest 'o' you dern ravers too!  (in other words,
you're welcome to call/show up/etc. if you want...)

lat,

*

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 12:25:46 1993
From: alg@bacchus.pwcm.com (alg)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 11:57:03 EDT
Subject: Re: request by ejp@well.sf.ca.us


> unsubscribe me
> Note if you could tel me that I could get a folder for
> each day of RAVE notes, then I would'nt have to unsubscribe!

mee too!  isn't there an sfraves digest? 

/al

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The ideas and opinions expressed here are solely those of the writer.  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 12:41:29 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 14:43:17 EDT
Subject: Pyramid lake moved to Tahoe? (fwd)

Hey now I'd go if it was in SLT. Go climb Mt. Tallac by day, then rave
all night. (Not! Mt. Tallac trail is very steep and a full day of hard
work. But there are other wonderful excursions in the area.)

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 13:31:24 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 15:22:52 EDT
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

Ouch. If it's on Forest Service land it's in extreme danger of being
shut down. The SLT area has lots of rangers and they're really serious
about enforcing things. That's because there is so much pressure on
the area already. 

Just a warning.

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 13:39:27 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 12:25:05 -0700
Subject: Final draft of flyer

Here is final draft of flyer we will be handing out at raves...


Keep "Big Brother" out of your face


If you have a computer and modem,   use Electronic mail,   or keep personal 
data on your computer,  it may soon be illegal for you to protect it by 
using personal encryption programs,  if our snoopy government has their way.

Last April,  the Clinton Administration proposed a new Encryption chip 
called the "Clipper chip" which permits authorities with a "Master key" 
which unlocks encrypted data.  Would you trust your authorities with a 
key to your house?   Of course not!!

Ravers should take note that our group of "Freedom fighters" called 
"Cypherpunks" are making important tools available you can use now 
to protect your sensitive mail and data that cannot be unlocked using 
this so called "Master key" scheme.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF),  and Computer Professionals 
for Social Responsibility (CPSR),  are important lobby organizations 
dedicated to keeping our government in check and preserving our 
privacy. They need your support.   Please contact them at address below.

Our goals are to get the word out,  and get as many people as possible 
to use simple encryption tools like PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) so our 
government cannot make their use illegal.  This program PGP, is 
available on PC-DOS, Macintosh, and UNIX computer systems free of 
charge.  Look for PGP distribution booths at future raves,  and 
spread the word.

For more information,  contact:

CPSR
PO Box 717
Palo Alto, Ca. 94301
(415) 322-3778
cpsr@cpsr.org

EFF
1001 G. Street NW suite 950 E.
Washington DC, 20001
(202) 347-5400
eff@eff.org


Cypherpunks
cypherpunks-request@toad.com


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 14:36:55 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 13:34:26 -0700
Subject: Re: request by ejp@well.sf.ca.us

>mee too!  isn't there an sfraves digest?

As soon as I install the MAJORDOMO listserv software, digest subscriptions
will be made available.  Patience.... :)

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 15:35:28 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 15:19:43 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

Sean:

> Ouch. If it's on Forest Service land it's in extreme danger of being
> shut down. The SLT area has lots of rangers and they're really serious
> about enforcing things. That's because there is so much pressure on
> the area already. 

GEEEEEESH!!  Maureen, what kind of clown act is running that zillion dollar
dog and pony show anyway?  Let's see, Shoshone benefit by the lake with no
Shoshones benefitting, airfield with a $15 per-day camping fee, ranch, and now
forest service land?  Maybe if Imagination moves quickly enough, they can have
it on a boat where the audience gets to flail in the Pacific while listening
to great dance music.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 15:42:25 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 15:13:18 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Final draft of flyer

Crunch, I've respected you for many years, but I can't help but offer a bit of
rebuttle to this.  I think this has been blown way out of proportion.

> If you have a computer and modem,   use Electronic mail,   or keep personal 
> data on your computer,  it may soon be illegal for you to protect it by 
> using personal encryption programs,  if our snoopy government has their way.

Yes, but what about *enforcement*?  If I encrypt my personal diary of
sabotage, anti-government activities, and cookie recipes on my computer by
first writing it in my own graphics format, archiving it with an old version
of ARC and a password, then uuencoding everything, then converting it to a
massive sound file of me reading off the numbers of the uuencoded file, then
compressing it with my own homebrew compression program and calling the
resulting mess "Pooh.picture", how is your average Fed, or ANYONE for that
matter going to know WHAT THE HELL IT REALLY IS?

You can continue to encrypt whatever you like on the computer and nobody is
going to throw you in jail.  Even if they make a law that states "Encryption
Punishable By Death," you can get around it.  Whatever you do with your data
doesn't necessarily fall under "encryption," unless you want to call it that.

> Last April,  the Clinton Administration proposed a new Encryption chip 
> called the "Clipper chip" which permits authorities with a "Master key" 
> which unlocks encrypted data.  Would you trust your authorities with a 
> key to your house?   Of course not!!

No, but I wouldn't be telling the authorities that I only use one kind of lock
either.

> Ravers should take note that our group of "Freedom fighters" called 
> "Cypherpunks" are making important tools available you can use now 
> to protect your sensitive mail and data that cannot be unlocked using 
> this so called "Master key" scheme.

We don't need a new banner in order to protect sensitive data.  All you need
is a brain to do it yourself and lack of paranoia.

> The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF),  and Computer Professionals 
> for Social Responsibility (CPSR),  are important lobby organizations 
> dedicated to keeping our government in check and preserving our 
> privacy. They need your support.   Please contact them at address below.

Agreed.  I'm all for the EFF and CPSR.  What I'm not for is unjustifiable
paranoia and ballyhoo.

> government cannot make their use illegal.  This program PGP, is 
> available on PC-DOS, Macintosh, and UNIX computer systems free of 
> charge.  Look for PGP distribution booths at future raves,  and 
> spread the word.

I live in a neighborhood of artists and "free thinkers" in downtown Salt Lake
City.  Amazingly enough, I've left my house with the door wide open, as well
as most of the windows.  I have had a few neighbors lose their housekeys and
thus never lock their doors.  This is in the center of what most people would
consider the *worst* section of town.  Why are we able to act this way?  Lack
of paranoia, trust in each other, and everyone looking out for the
neighborhood.

Give people locks and paranoia and suddenly they've got a lot of things to
*protect*.  I'm concerned that raves are being used as a podium for this type
of thinking when in reality they should strive for the reverse.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 16:16:16 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 15:50:05 -0700
Subject: Re:  tooooo unlimited

I thought the dancers were alright, but what really pissed me off was the false
advertisment Metro's had done in telling everyone that "...it was their only 
live show in the nation..."; the fact of the matter was that they were performign
g for the 25th time. I timed them and they only performed for 1/2 an hour. I
think that was a rip off. I have paid $15 for general admission to see INXS at 
the Warfield which lasted 1.5 hours plus standing right ing in the pit. In addition, I was
one of the "folks were friendlier than a couple of the "raver dressed" folks,
who seemed to flaunt attitudes." and if I did seem to be that way I really did 
not mean to be or act in anyway that might make anyone else think that way about t
me. I was just having a dancers euphoria and did not pay much attention to my surroundin 
surroundings. I also gave you the directions on how to get there, and I wish I 
had given you a clue as to who I was or what I would be wearing so that we 
could have met there, but I am positive you saw me or at least my neon painted 
shoes, my beanie, or the whistle ( which I was blowing and probably irritating
the shit out of some people, not to mention the clapping). Well, I hope next 
time we meet at a rave or go to a rave in unison with a bunch of our freinds.

Until then peace, dancers euphoria, and rave forever.

					Hoss (whistle boy)..

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 18:37:34 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 16:44:14 -0700
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

Regarding the warning about Forest Service Rangers.  Steven said last night
that the forest rangers will know we are there.  He has done other events at
that site.  The only thing which may happen is that they may ask us to stop
the music at 2 or 3 AM.  Personally, I wouldn't mind this as there are few
things as wonderful as listening to the cool night wind, all the critters
including earthlings, and watching the Milky Way sparkle...the skies will be
black this weekend...can't wait.  I hope all goes well for all parties this
weekend... --Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 19:03:58 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 17:06:26 -0700
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

ouch is right...yow! "Maureen what kind of clown act is running that zillion
dollar dog and pony show anyway?"  Well, good question.  There is little
doubt that lots of people get a 'D' for their homework on site selection.
There are Shoshone, there are Paiutes, and apparently some people call the
Paiutes Western Shoshone's.  The Pauites are not the Shoshones.  My
understanding is that we lost the Pyramid Lake site because of intertribal
council bickering.  E.G. the Hopi and the Navajo have been politically
warring for decades over land.  So these folks perhaps didn't get all the
facts, but I believe their heart was in a good place.  The ranch (near and
airfield not on an airfield) was not 15 per day, but 25$ for three days and
a $15 one day fee.  This as I already posted, got harassed by
fundamentalists (a multi-billion dollar powerful organization in this
country determined to take us back to the dark ages and a foe of the House
Movement); and now on forest service land...Steven, one of the producers in
NV told me last night that they new we were coming.  He has done events
there before.  

No party it seems is without risk of being closed down.  Cyberfest,while oi
on this so called non-city piece of land owned by the railroads is still
going to blast music up to very populated, organized, neighborhoods...Ihope
all parties this weekend rave on and on...in beauty, delivering all
advertised promises....  peace  six lines up new = knew.   

P.S.  Would it be possible to get an idea y'all, of how many of you are
going to the Sierras this weekend for Imagination.  Please post a simple yay
or nay and also, I have room in my 4x4 Toyota truck for one passenger.
Sharing expenses like gas would be great.  Please call if interested.
(415) 459-5334.  I will be leaving tomorrow at 10ish.   --peace

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 20:01:15 1993
From: g7r5a3ce@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Grace Chan)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 17:51:03 -0700
Subject: Re:  tooooo unlimited



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 21:24:27 1993
From: gwh@lurnix.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 17:51:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Speak, Fido! (was: Weekend in LA) 


>N2O is an oxidizer, but there needs to be substantial amounts of flame
>and combustible material before it'll enhance combustion.  I've seen
>it used in "water pipe" designs where the gas intake was quite close
>to open flame, never any problems.  It's not "flammable" in any normal
>sense.  (some detergents are oxidizers too, you can't light them with
>a lighter, but they will do crazy stuff if mixed with gunpowder)

This is wrong.

I've seen Nitrous used like this start some interesting fires,
and have seen explosions where one of the active ingredients
was Nitrous.

Don't play with Nitrous and Flame.  Burn wards are really really
depressing places...

-george



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 21:57:05 1993
From: Joachim Vance (The Underdog) <jvance@einstein.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 19:36:23 -0700
Subject: Last Weekend: SoCal Chill-Out and LA Togather


  Last weekend was both the best weekend and the worst that I've had
in a long time.  I didn't get any sleep and that's usually a good sign
(except when you're falling asleep during Taylor's set and to tired to
go to Sketch Pad...)
 

   The Riders of the Plastic Groove show on Friday started pretty
well.  I left the first hour for myself to feature music and do short
sets of mixing.  The first wave of the SFRaves contingent showed up
around 9:30.  (in order of appearance) Cindy, Tamara, Brian, and (to
my surprise) Leah! :)  I didn't think Leah was going to make the trip
so my jaw just about hit the floor when I saw her.  It was very
exciting to have them all there.

   Daemon from Sandy Eggo was a little late for his set, but once he
got going I'm sure he left Brian with the impression that he must have
been a DJ from SF in another life...  He spun a great set of San Diego
house and funk.  Rob-L came on a little after 11pm and did a great
House and Progressive House set.

   By the time the show ended quite a little hoard of SoCal-Ravers had
shown up for the Chill-Out.  Bryan Campbell, Dennis Barton
(Paperboy2000) and friends, Robert Lau and Joanna, Joe Rice and
friends (one who used to be on the list), Brad (jerico@netcom), Andy
Thomas, and Dana (who poked his head in for a bit).  Rob-L had decided
to forgo a paying gig to hang out and had his friends come out.  And
some KUCI people including K!z!K (who brought lights) and the General
Manager and the Music Director decided to tag along to see what it was
all about as well.

   I had scouted out the roof the night before and to Andy and my
surprise, managed to get into the locked building.  But I still didn't
know if we had power up there, so Andy, Bryan and I headed off to the
roof with a black light.  One door had been left ajar and after a
quick ride to the top, first place I plug in had power so it was a
go!  we headed back to KUCI, and took the aready loaded cars to the
loading dock of the building.   I swear that was the fastest I ever
moved that heavy equipment.  Andy and Brian went to the top to set up
while Bryan and I walked back to the station for the people.

   I wanted to be discrete, since I figured the less attention we
attract the better, so I wanted to break the group in two.  But we
finally decided to walk all 15 or more people over all at once.
Getting everyone there went okay but I was pretty worried just the
same. 

  To get to the roof you have to take a service elevator that was
decorated in plywood and construction warning signs.  And when those
elevator doors open up at the top, all you see is a dark patio and the
city lights beyond.  It's pretty darn cool.   The roof is in a fat
plus sign shape with a penthouse holding equipment and long unused
classrooms at the center.  I opted for the side of the plus sign away
from the closest habitation.
  
  Within a few moments I helped Brian set up the rest of the equipment
and Rob-L (who brought his whole crate with him!) started to lay down
boomin house tracks and immediately upped our classification from
Chill-Out to NanoRave(tm).  :) I think it was about 1:45am that the
sound started up.  I headed back to KUCI to get a replacement for a
faulty cord and to hear how far the sound was carrying.

  On the way back with a friend from the station in tow, I realized
that because we were so high up, you could hear the muffled bass from
just about everywhere (except for right below the building).  As I
took a detour to make sure we weren't too loud in the direction of the
campus police station I spied a Campus Security Officer(CSO) (ie. not
real police but a potential problem) parked just up the road from the
building and coming up a nearby walk with a flashlight on.  From my
estimation we were on converging paths and I had no good way to get to
the open door without him seeing us.  So I opted for speed over
stealth and decided if I could get to the door with my friend and shut
it before he realized anything, I might be able to get to the roof to
turn down the sound before he figured out where the sound was coming
from. 

  By the time I got to the roof, turned down the sound and fished out
my binoculars (very helpful item) the CSO was already getting in his
truck and leaving.  That settled my nerves a little bit.  And later on
I realized that all the CSOs were just milling about on patrol and
probably didn't even know about our existance on the roof.  But
everyone kept up a pretty good patrol after that just in case.

  At one point 5 unknown guys were milling about on the grass below
trying to figure out where the party was.  They just never looked up.
It was pretty funny.  And Bryan led them on quite a wild goose chase.
I would have pointed them in the right direction and let them come up,
but I didn't think I was ready to add anyone that I or someone else up
there hadn't invited.

  The rest of the night went off without a hitch.  Brad set up some
great computer generated visuals inside one of the classrooms (made
for a good chillout room).  Cindy and Leah crashed on some counter
tops in a quieter room (ouch, next time I'll bring bean-bags and
pillows).  K!z!K set up some pretty neat simple lighting with a couple
strobes and sirens (when you threw rocks into the lights they really
did look like they were spontaneously created).  People found an even
better view by climbing the ladder onto the roof of the penhouse.  And
Rob-L, Joe Rice, and the abient-trance team of Bryan & Brian all spun
good sets.  I was amazed that Rob-L stayed even after his friends
left.  Thanks Rob!

  We ended sometime after 6am or so with about 7 people in the lazy
overcast dawn.  We loaded up and left as if we never had been there
and headed off for some "Rooty tooty, shake your booty" at IHOP.  I
never did get to try out my "I'm falling off the roof" trick on
anyone...

  I think what made it so great is that you could dance or chill-out
or chat or just walk around and enjoy the view.  I hope everybody had
as good a time as I did and maybe made some new friends.

  Big thankyous and hugs go out to the SoCal-Ravers: Joe, Brad, Bryan,
Robert and Joanna, Dennis, Andy, and Dana and all the friends you
brought along; and the SFRavers: Cindy, Leah, Brian, and Tamara (who
is really a summering SoCal-Raver) who made the long trip a day early
just for this and the show.

  We will do it again soon.  Or even better, I think this has inspired
us enough to do something bigger! :)

Joachim

(This is so long I'll put the LA Togather story in the next post)

* NanoRave is an imagined trademark of the Underdog...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 22:40:10 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 19:57:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aids Walk

I was wondering if there was any body out there that is going to be at the
Aids Walk on Sun. July 25. I haven't decided if I will walk or not, but we
could get a group together.


Cin


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 22:49:49 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 20:02:23 PDT
Subject: I-MAGI-NATION venue change again!!

New location 
Highway 80 to sacto get on 50 to kybers 14 
miles past that  to a sign that says
pow wow turn down the road to sierra 
sky ranch road. and its down there.

Suppose to be a sky resort.

The mountain meadow fell thru because there will be a ham convention
there saturday and they wouldn't budge.


			-G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 15 23:25:42 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 21:41:30 -0700
Subject: Re:  pyramid lake again

>This
>confirms my belief that we are going to have to fight to keep the House
>Movement alive
It took a bunch of whcked out bible bangers to convince you?  Well, better
late than never ;)

>that we were
>all into sex, drugs, and rock and roll and were Satanists...:).  This

Hell, I though that house was ALL about sex,drugs, and loud music...if it
wasn't for that I would not have started, uh 'raving', in the first place
;)


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+             The rumors of my demise were, at best, virtual.              +
+                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com                       +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 00:08:41 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 22:50:54 PDT
Subject: Re: Aids Walk

Sea Of Sin sez:
> 
> I was wondering if there was any body out there that is going to be at the
> Aids Walk on Sun. July 25. I haven't decided if I will walk or not, but we
> could get a group together.
> 
> 
> Cin
> 

Yep!  Vanessa and I are walking.  Maybe we can all meet somewhere...

-H-



-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
            "Unk!  Bull manganee" - Tarzan, lord of the jungle
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 02:58:39 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <well.sf.ca.us!metalmau@nexsys.net>
Date: 	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 21:30:49 -0700
Subject: Re:  I-MAGI-NATION venue change again!!

arrrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
xcuse my language but 'fuck'...better check in tomorrow morning to check the
location again.  Well, change it enough times and no one is going to be able
to find it, including any officer types!   :)  We will still have trees....
probably less elevation...  --all packed and ready to go Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 03:34:28 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <uclink.berkeley.edu!acid23@nexsys.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 01:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: I-MAGI-NATION venue change again!!

> New location 
> Highway 80 to sacto get on 50 to kybers 14 
> miles past that  to a sign that says
> pow wow turn down the road to sierra 
> sky ranch road. and its down there.
> 
> Suppose to be a sky resort.
> 
> The mountain meadow fell thru because there will be a ham convention
> there saturday and they wouldn't budge.

JEEEEESUS CHRIST!  I wonder how many people will head for Pyramid Lake,
the ranch, or S. Lake Tahoe.  This is like a soap opera or something.  I
wonder what the location will be tomorrow?  

By the way, what the hell is a "sky resort" anyway?

///////////{{{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<<232>>>>>]]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\\\



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 04:17:28 1993
From: John Draper <crunch@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Fri, 16 Jul 1993 02:46:52 -0700
Subject: ABout altitude one should know.


But with the location changing every hour,  this message might
be meaningless.


On this Lake tahoe thingie...

One thing people should know,  especially FLATLANDERS,  is that 7000 feet
altitude means that your dancing style shouldn't get too aggressive,  
especially on drugs.    High altitude exertion can be quite gnarley
and extremly uncomfortable if over-stressed.

I used to do lots of hiking in the Andes,  where altitudes were about the
10k
level,  and just walking a flat block can get you huffing and puffing,
especially for smokers.   

Cheers

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 05:38:24 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 04:18:53 -0700
Subject: Your Sister's House addendum

I just wanted to thank Brian S. for being so positive and energetic at YSH. It
really rubs off!

Tamara

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 05:43:46 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 04:17:00 -0700
Subject: Your Sister's House

Last night, Your Sister's House was held at ANOTHER loft on Stevenson Street,
down the block from the TAZ space.  Jan Cooley and Tara spun killer sets and I
thought the vibe was very powerful.  There must have been at least 100 people
there and I had a great time. The only, and I mean the ONLY thing that bothered
me was the continuation of a current practice that I just absolutely HATE:
people clapping during the breaks in songs.  UGH! Also, I got to meet SFRavers
Ravi and Ethan, which is always a neat thing...check this event out, people, if
you haven't done so already. It just continues to feel good!

Tamara

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 08:15:29 1993
From: netcom.com!bbraasch@nexsys.net (Bill Braasch)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 04:04:14 -0700
Subject: Re: I-MAGI-NATION venue change again!!

That's Sierra Ski Ranch.  Its a downhill ski resort.

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 10:48:26 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:55:29 -0700
Subject: The insider's RAVE guide

OK, I have had SOOOOOO many people asking me "Hey John, what you gonna do
this weekend?"  that I've decided to publish my own personal "Insider's
RAVE Guide".  This publication will include handy little tidbits like what
to do and where to go during a busy Bay Area weekend (like this one!).  It
will be filled with all kinds of "insider" information so you can FINALLY
make an informed choice about your party activities.  Of course there will
be a liberal amount of editorialization by yours truly, but consider it a
bonus as you will have the definitive guide to partying here in the Bay
Area.  Of course the first issue is free (electronic), all subsequent
issues will be $10 each, well worth it if you consider that you spend at
least that much going to a party you end up not liking.  So here
goes...your first free issue:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                               INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE
                                 -THIS WEEKS FUN-

Before I start I want to thank everyone who has provided countless
inspiration to publish this Rave guide filled with all kinds of insider
information to raves and raving here in the beautiful Bay Area.  Without
any hesitation let me begin by mentioning the two, uh "raves", that seems
to be all the attraction.  CyberFest and I-MAGI-NATION.  I have special
insider information about these parties so you will want to read on.

MASSIVE fever has hit the Bay Area in a big way.  Ravers seem pretty sick
and tired of the 'ol SF venues unless they are held in spaces usually
reserved for toxic waste. But as they say, this scene is for the
headstrong!  CyberFest I must say has positionned itself nicely in the
continuing race to see who can throw the biggest party.  While
I-MAGI-NATION has shown what a truly creative party can be before the party
begins.  My insiders note:  I think that you will need plenty of
I-MAGI-NATION to rave with that group.  It will probably be a virtual party
held and moved to multiple locations to keep your imagination running wild
{end note}. As usual with these cross state events the SF posses were ready
from day 1 to kick ass, too bad others don't seems to be able to get their
stuff together, but I imagine in the furture they will.  If my imagination
is correct.

CyberFest, uh, it's gonna be a BIG, BIG, BIG party.  Or at least they have
said so.  It's gonna be held here in the beautiful city of SF known for
killer events, and also well-known for getting events shut down at a
moments notice. permits or no!  This, uh, "rave" will be held near the
water, and according to the maps I have seen (on the insiders track of
course), well within listening distance of sleeping "non-ravers".  But I
have THE scoop (this is an insiders note):  The members of the CyberFest
crew have just announced that they will employ some of the latest
technology to keep the sound from eminating out towards the sleeping
non-party...oops non-raving public.  They will employ the latest sound
damping techniques to ensure that there is no sound disturbance.  First
they will point the speakers toward the water, then as soon as the
soundcheck is over, and people have arrived, they will use this new device
to attenuate the sound.  From what I have been told this device is called
the OFF switch! It has been used quite effectively by local law enforcement
officails to rid themselves of not only the noise, but those pesky brightly
colored, large hat wearing, whistle-blowing, dilated pupils having, body
jerking things called "ravers" {end note}.

THE INSIDERS SURVIVAL GUIDE FOR 7/17/93:
Pack a BIG bag of stuff for the desert.  Now unpack that bag and re-pack it
with cold weather clothes.  After that unpack it then re-pack it with a
change of clothes.  Then unpack it then....Remeber to carry a heavy duty
pair of walking/running/hiking/snow shoes.  After running for the party in
the desert, and hiking to the Himalayas for a party, and snow-shoeing
through the snow for a party, you forgot to arrange for a ride home.  Get
out those walkin shoes cuz there's some miles a comin.


What the "insiders" will do this weekend:

I don't know about them, but this "insider" is befuddled.  With sooooo many
choices to choose from, and no possibility of being comp'ed, what's a
promoter to do? Aha, I will first roll a big one, light it, inhale deeply,
exhale, inhale deeply, exhale.  Drink a beer, 2, 3, 4.  Play SEGA.  Play
with the kid, play with my wife, and then at about 11:30, GO TO BED.  Set
the alarm for 7:00 a.m.  take a shower, do the do.  Light the rest of the
big one, inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale.  Get in the car, pick up
E.L.Revon, go to Boogie Buffet for some grubbin beats sit down with some of
the "insiders" and ask them about where they went and what they did on a
weekend with soooo much to do.  Ahead $15.00 with plenty of money to buy
drinks for all my insider friends & relatives.  And I haven't even left SF!

Until the next issue (remember, it's $10.00 for the next issue and if I
didn't mention it $15.00 every subsequent issue).  I at "Insiders" am
interested to know what you think about my first issue. Let's be frank,  I
know that you've enjoyed it so I'm not really interested in any thoughts
you have about it.  What I'm really interested in is your money, and the
above subscription fee.  So save your words and send your money.  Oh I
forgot, you need an address or phone number to get me the cash.  Well if
you're on the inside track you know how to get ahold of me, if not then
this will be your first and last issue. 

--------------------------- INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE{END} ---------------------------

This IS all for fun....please don't take it seriously.  Have a good time
this weekend, and most of all be careful when you're in the woods or near
the docks, we don't need repeats of the Gathering at either locale, neither
do we need the forrest littered and trampled upon.  Be kind to your mother
(Earth).  She's the only one we've got.

Peace and hopefully I'll see some of you @ Boggie Buffet!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+             The rumors of my demise were, at best, virtual.              +
+                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com                       +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 11:09:58 1993
From: Francis L Sibilla <fran@ravel.udel.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 12:32:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Aids Walk

Where is this?  If it's in SF - I can probably go - assuming we drive
quickly from LA to SF on the 24th - If this is in Boston - then I can't go
because I'll be in SF - could someone  help my confusion.

Fran



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 11:16:52 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:38:51 PDT
Subject: Material - Mantra (remixed by the Orb)


----- Begin Included Message -----


Subject: Ambient Reaction sheet accompanying "Mantra" press release
To: funky-music@Athena.MIT.EDU (Funky Music Mailing List),
        klf@asylum.sf.ca.us (The KLF/Orb/Ambient Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 15:25:43 BST
From: ames!city.ac.uk!culf (Culfinion)
Reply-To: ames!city.ac.uk!culf (Culfinion)
Organisation: The Hall Of The Mountain King
Monochrome-Responsibility: Media & Music / Lyrics / Discographies
Fats-Comet: "I'm coming to serenade you soon on the radio..."
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: R

This is the additional sheet that comes with the press release for the promo
12" of the Orb-remixed Mantra single by Material:


                                   the orb

                            AMBIENT REACTION SHEET
                WE NEED YOUR HONEST OPINIONS AND PREDICTIONS
                PLEASE COMPLETE ALL PARTS OF THIS FORM

ARTIST: MATERIAL                                             TO BE RETURNED BY
TITLE:  MANTRA                                                   1ST JULY 1993
CAT No: 12AXMDJ1                                                  LABEL: AXIOM

NAME__________________________________________________________________________

CLUB
RADIO STATION
OTHER_________________________________________________________________________

PROFESSIONAL AND PERSONAL OPINION

THEN T'WORMS 'LL CUM EAT ME UP ..........................0

DEAD, FULL ON TETSE FLY EFFECT ..........................1

COMATOSE AND GENERAL STEM DEATH..........................2

FULLY KIPPERED...........................................3

YAWN! GIVE ME BACK MY 'ARDCORE...........................4

SLIDING OFF MY CHAIR.....................................5

SLIPPING OUT OF IT.......................................6

CHILLIN WITH A FAT ONE...................................7

I'M RUNNING OUT OF OXYGEN!...............................8

NOW THIS IS SPACE!.......................................9

WHAT SPECTRAL PLANE AM I ON?............................10

MY GOD IT'S FULL OF STARS!..............................11 AND UP

ANY COMMENTS, COMETS OR ASTRAL PROJECTIONS WELCOMED:






                  QUESTION: HOW DO YOU GROW A SEEDLESS GRAPE?
           PARTING STATEMENT: CAPTURE YOUR DREAMS NOT YOUR ANXIETIES

            *** RETURN TO: MATERIAL PO BOX 483 SHEFFIELD S1 2BY  ***
            

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Culfinion:  Elec-Eng-Students, Dept Elec & Elec Eng, University Of Salford, UK.
        J.R.Binks@eee.salford.AC.UK      |      jbinks@nyx.cs.du.EDU
                    culf@city.AC.UK      |      j_binks@hicom.ORG

"Get it together generally with the younger generation.  Gonna sock it to ya,
 come on!  Come on!  Something nice is gonna happen to your ears" - Fats Comet


----- End Included Message -----


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 11:18:41 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:40:21 PDT
Subject: more material/orb stuff...


----- Begin Included Message -----

Subject: Press release : "Mantra" by Material, Island Records
To: funky-music@Athena.MIT.EDU (Funky Music Mailing List),
        klf@asylum.sf.ca.us (The KLF/Orb/Ambient Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 15:24:03 BST
From: ames!city.ac.uk!culf (Culfinion)
Reply-To: ames!city.ac.uk!culf (Culfinion)
Organisation: The Hall Of The Mountain King
Monochrome-Responsibility: Media & Music / Lyrics / Discographies
Fats-Comet: "I'm coming to serenade you soon on the radio..."
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: R


Island Records Ltd,
22 St Peters Square,
London W6 9NW

                 AXIOM - NOTHING IS TRUE EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED

"Radical means hitting people on a real level and trying to lift their aware-
ness up a notch or two.  And to get them to think beyond the conventional-
held beliefs that certain musics only work in certain ways."  (Laswell)

Bil Laswell, hailed as the radical bassist/producer who stood the world on
it's ear, has changed the contemporary soundscape.  In the 14 years he has
been making records, demarcation lines that once separated musical idioms have
become very elastic and, here and there, given way altogether as he has
followed up wide-ranging enthusiasms for the farthest flung ethnic music, for
funk and hip hop and beyond, for heavy metal, blues, punk and grindcore,
reggae and free improvisation.  Musicians of diverse backgrounds brought
together in his provocative productions (Laswell thinks of them as "mutant
records") have had their prejudices overturned.  Pre-Laswell few could have
contemplated the musical possibilities of, for example, Johnny Rotten, Ryuichi
Sakamoto and Ginger Baker performing on the same record (Public Image
Limited's album), or Yoko Ono with Sly & Robbie (Starpiece), Whitney Houston
with Fred Frith (on Material's One Down) or Mick Jagger accompanied by Herbie
Hancock (She's The Boss).

In 1983 Laswell had deejay D.ST improvising live with Material at the Montreux
Jazz Festical and the "Rockit" single and "FUTURE SHOCK" album with Herbie
Hancock climbing the charts.  Two years later Afrika Bambaataa sang on the
MC5's "Kick Out The Jams" on a Laswell session; today rap and rock
collaborations proliferate.  Similarly, the juxtaposition of "ethnic" and
"industrial" sounds, which were challenging when first heard on Herbie
Hancock's "Sound System", have come to seem inevitable.  The "collision music"
that Laswell's collective Material introduced has become a way of life for a
new generation of bands, quite a few of them directly inspired by the
producer's initiatives.  Yet the levelling of genres has generally been a side
effect of Laswell's work rather than it's raison d'etre.  On some records he
has worked within existing traditions.  The range of his work resits a tidy
summary.  Though there are by now recognizable "streams" within the body of
his work, he has no single fixed production approach and no manifesto; he
approaches each new recording on its own terms; "Somewhere along the line, a
record asserts its own identity, and you have to go with it, you have to stay
faithful to that."  A gifted improviser, Laswell is better equiped than most
of his producer contemporaries to follow where the music leads.  In recent
years, it's been taking him around the globe.  Field recordings in Marrakesh,
Gambia, Jajouka and elsewhere have helped his label Axiom (founded in 1989)
posit new directions for world music production.

A series of three radical trance/dub/ambient remixes will be released over a
period of six weeks as an introduction to the ecletic Axiom compilation album,
Manifestation.  The first release is a hypnotic seventeen minute long remix by
The Orb of Material's track "Mantra" (June 28th).  This will be followed two
weeks later by a remix of "Reality" by Material.  The final remix will be
available on July 26th.

Manifestation, the 2nd Axiom collection, released on August 9th, is an album of
boundary breaking music featuring a new direction for Axiom.  It highlights
tracks from such critically acclaimed Axiom releases as Praxis, Bahia Black and
the Master Musicians Of Jajouka, plus music from new anbd upcoming 1993 Axiom
releases by Nicky Skopelitis and Henry Threadgill.  Unique to Manifestation are
four "dub" remixes.  Both "Reality Dub" by Material and "Lanmbassy Dub" by
Mandingo get radical remix treatment.  The original versions of all the remixes
are available on the album.


----- End Included Message -----


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 13:18:12 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 15:08:52 EDT
Subject: Weather conditions at South Lake Tahoe

Right now, highs are in the mid-70s. Lows in the low 40s, but at this
time of the year they can get in the low 30's to high 20's.

Looks like a good weekend. Usual chance of surprise mountain
thunderstorms. Bring that winter sleeping bag and extra clothes. Brrr.

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 13:28:10 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 13:25:32 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Your Sister's House addendum



Gee, Thanks!!  I truly had a grand time!  But, it was really everything
about the party that did it -- good people, good friends, good music, good
vibe...  All the smiles I saw while dancing helped a lot!  :) 

It's such a wonderful feeling when everyone is so totally groovin' to the
vibe!  This has been one of the Happiest, Wondrous, Joyous, Intense,
Incredible...  parties I've been to in a long time.  Mondo Hugs to YSH!!

Thanks to all the sfravers (especially Tamara and Julie :) and everyone else
at YSH who made it happen for me!!


-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 13:40:35 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 14:43:51 EDT
Subject: Your Sister's House

Yeah, YSH continues to be my favorite small event. Consider that I'm
willing to drive out from Davis, head back, get 3 hours of sleep, and
do a day job on Friday :).

Hi Radion (sp?), Ethan, and Alex! Major major positive energy :).

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 14:13:52 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 12:37:45 PDT
Subject: Re: Weather conditions at South Lake Tahoe

Sean Casey sez:
> 
> Right now, highs are in the mid-70s. Lows in the low 40s, but at this
> time of the year they can get in the low 30's to high 20's.
> 
> Looks like a good weekend. Usual chance of surprise mountain
> thunderstorms. Bring that winter sleeping bag and extra clothes. Brrr.
> 
> Sean
> 

Too bad there's not going to be a rave there :-) :-)

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
            "Unk!  Bull manganee" - Tarzan, lord of the jungle
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 14:14:11 1993
From: rocky mullin <soda.berkeley.edu!caliban@nexsys.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 11:54:32 -0700
Subject: Re: I-MAGI-NATION venue change again!!

	sierra SKI ranch.  not sky ranch.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 14:21:22 1993
From: Ravi Vinodrai Gadhia <rg@cs.stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 13:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Attn:  Friends...

Hello Friends!


I've been on the quiet side lately
  --content to watch the world spin around.  :)

Well, the weekend is here, and it just so happens
that Saturday is my birthday (and Derek's too!!).
				  
I gave it a bit of thought, and rather than 
spending a special weekend in the standard way,
I'm gonna have a little party..... he he.
There's nothing I'd rather do than spend the
day hanging with friends--that includes MANY
of you!!

Nothing fancy or big--maybe some music, plenty 'o wine,
and hopefully smiling faces.  (Personally, I love
a few glasses of wine on a summer afternoon.)  

Anyways, gonna start around 4 pm and go until whenever,
probably 7 or 8.  

Directions are simple:	101 to Palo Alto
			Exit University Ave (head towards PaloAlto)
			Left on Lincoln
			Right on Fife (third right)
			1189 (second house on right)
		
You can give me a call to let me know if you're 
coming (415-325-7669), but surprises are good too.

Bye All.  Have a fantastic weekend!

Ravi









From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 15:10:47 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 13:19:51 -0700
Subject: Re: The insider's RAVE guide 


Wait, we're supposed to pay $15.00 for you to tell us that we should
stay home and hit boogie buffet?

Sheesh, I guess this is capitalism  at it's finest! I find it very odd
that you're basically disseminating information that others would post
for free on sfraves, and you're charging $15.00 for it. I signed up to
sfraves because it is an information community -- we all try to post
whatever interesting info we get our hands on without having that
stupid $$$ thingie light up in our eyes. Things would fall apart mighty
quick if people start asking for money for this kind of stuff. Does
Derek C. charge money for typing in all the rave flyers he sends to
Brian? Does Brian B. charge money for the calendar and for organizing
sfraves? (No, but in gratitude, we did buy him a car stereo for his
birthday). Does Pete A. charge for his informative XDZebra record
reviews? 

It's a karma thing -- those that put forward the most (info wise,
organization wise) always get something back for their effort. Often
the payback you get from good vibes and such is worth far more than  a
few extra bills. Isn't that (ideally) the kind of community ravers are
trying to put together? (Or perhaps that's just "our" idealism,
unfettered by repeated attempts by cynical promoter-skum (tm) to soak
us for any extra money we happen to fling about in ecstacy inspired glee).

Money is ultimately a source of great evil in all comunities, and it
can really foul up an info-community like sfraves. It's a
hierarchy-forming dominator society concept -- the antithesis of the
rave vibe. So lets keep money out of our happy little microcosm. It is a
disgusting fact of life that we all have to deal with in the real
world. Yes, the best things in life *ARE* free!

Money need not be exchanged each and every time value changes hands,
and charging money for goods that are reproducible at no cost
(information, software, etc.) is a very tenuous concept at best...

And no, I'm not a communist, probably not fully a socialist either. But
I do understand money and the way it turns perfectly reasonable people
into complete assholes. Most people are so caught up in counting their
pennies, ensuring they don't screw each other with "contracts" and
other legalese bullshit that they miss the big picture ...

PS: Are you going to set up a copyright gestappo to ensure that
everybody that reads your insider review is a paid subscriber? How much
is that going to "cost" you in terms of effort and mental anguish.

PPS: just to let people know where I'm coming from -- I'm spending the
entire spring and summer writing "version 2" of a public domain
software package that I previously released. When I'm done with it, I
will give it away for FREE (on the MIT X11r6 distribution)! Why? (1)
SCIENCE! -- I'm learning alot by doing this, getting alot of industry
contacts; (2) Because the Unix/X windows community needs this kind of
software; (3) Because the payback in the past for giving out other free
software has been very good to me (free trips to foreign countries,
being paid larger salary for any of the non-free work I do, etc.); (4)
because it's hard to get your software "foot in the door" by charging
money for experimental, non-mainstream software; (5) to generate a
market for a book I'm planning on writing (and selling); (6) Fun (but
then again, my idea of fun is somewhat warped...).

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 15:19:59 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 13:40:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Material - Mantra (remixed by the Orb) 

> This is the additional sheet that comes with the press release for the promo
> 12" of the Orb-remixed Mantra single by Material:

I have the non-12" copy of "Mantra (Doors of Perception Mix)" by
Material and it is excellent. Bill Laswell, Zakir Hussain, Viku
Vinayakram, Shankar are the musicians -- it was recorded in India and
has a very strong "Indian" raga-funk feel to it.

I have this on the awesome Axiom Records Compilation "Manifestation
Axiom Collection II" (c. 1993) -- killer trax on this include "Reality
Dub (Virtual Reality Mix)" by Material (w/ Shabba Ranks + Sly&Robbie),
the aforementioned "Mantra" track, Playin With FIre (Praxis Remix/Edit)
by Material, Bahia Black's "Capitao do Asfalto", Nicky Skopelitis
"Tarab Dub (Wasteland Mix)", and other good tracks by  Master Musicians
of Jajouka, Henry Threadgill, Mandigo, Praxis, etc.

The older "Illuminations -- Axiom Collection" (c. 1991) is also quite
interesting. Recommended in fact.

I got both of these CDs used for $7.00 each at "Recycled Records" in
SF... They're probably my favorite CDs purchased this year...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 15:42:07 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 13:54:59 -0700
Subject: This Week's Rave Guide

	Sorry this is so late in coming, but I wanted to see if anyone
last night at YSH more info about this upcoming weekend to make an 
informed decision.  I got a few flyers, but people in the scene still
seem to be a bit mystified about the next few days... this is good in a 
way, there should always be the element of danger to make us appreciate
the times things DO come together...

	The battle of the network stars:  Cyberfest vs. Imagination. 
So many stories have been floating around about both of them... all I can
say is, if you can afford the time and energy to drive to the sierras for
a party, no matter what happens you'll have a good time because there will
be others up there who've driven equally far and won't let anything stop
them.  Thus, I really do predict I Magi Nation will be worth the trip.  
Cyberfest I have doubts about, as anyone should - I'm wracking my brain
trying to find SOMETHING positive to say about this and I'm coming up 
short.  

	As for the smaller parties, Mission Rock is always a good bet on
Friday nights, and seeing as how Onionz from NY will be spinning there I'm
definitely going.  Saturday night is another Aurgasm (not quite ready to
be considered a weekly yet - as soon as it finds a new 18+ home it will be)
which got very positive reviews last week, and there's been a lot of flyering
for it so hopefully it'll have more people this week.

	So whatever you do, enjoy yourself.  And if you're driving long
distances this weekend. please please please be careful.  See ya!

	Brian

*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     Last modified: 07/16/93
*****************************************************************************

Friday, July 16th thru Sunday, July 18th - I MAGI NATION
        presented by Wicked, Ambient Temple of Imagination, Psychic TV
        pagan love fest-horseback riding-clothing optional-hot springs
        DJs Christophe, Moonpup, Markem X, Spun, Galen, Michael,
                Goa Gil, Jeno, Garth, Markie, Elf, Dani, Susan, Shoban, Spirit
        Live: Iao Core, Spacetime, Tastibox, Cosmic Free Way,
                Paisley Brain Cells, etc.
        Visuals by Liquid Sircus Delights, Pyromania Arts, Synergy
        $25 for 3 days, or $15 per day.
        bring shelter, drums, positive vibes.  fruit, water, feast provided.
        Friday 8pm to Sunday 8 pm.
        (415)337-4905  (415)512-5713  (415)922-6941  (408)459-8304
	For directions call the above #'s - it will be in the high sierras.

Saturday, July 17th - Aurgasm - DJs Mark Farina, Bruce, Nadeeah
	11 PM Ambient 1 AM Trance 4 AM Deep   $5 before midnight, $9 after
	174 King St. --> 21+ - (415)974-9363

Saturday July 17th - CyberFest - a multi-cultural tribal gathering
        Onionz/Tony/Buck/Shon/Doc Martin/Harry Who/Rick Preston/Daemon
        Pete Avila/Tin-Tin/Chris Flores/Carlos/Colin Dale/Barry Weaver
        DJ Dan/Donald Glaude/Julius/Digit+EFX/La Paix/Neon Leon/Ernie Munson
        Ghost/Sammy/Safar/Jonathan/Curb/Liquid/Demigod+Mouse
        Live:Fungo Mungo/Mo'fessionals/Soul Beit/Dizzy Bam/Aztlan Nation/
                Electric Soul/Funky Bishop/The Rave Brothers
        Located at 4th & Channel, SF (a few blocks south of Townsend)
        info: (415)979-4543     (916)449-3111   (408)235-1077
        Advance tix $20+ripoff at BASS
        No Illegal Substances/Strict Searches - presented by Cool World

Saturday, July 24th - The Bay Area House Nation presents Unity
	Carlos  Dutch  Garth  Gavan  Jan Cooley  Jeno  Scott Hardkiss  Simon
	415.995.4935  	408.236.2072	510.464.5980

Saturday, July 31st thru Sunday Aug. 1st - Penelope's Web
	presented by One Nation Productions and Your Sisters' House
	415-765-7671

Saturday, July 31st - BASICS reunion
        Josh  Markie  Tony  Doran  Garth  Wool
        (415)905 9629, 18+, in San Francisco

Friday, August 13 - Sunday, August 15 - Festivahl
        Homegrown Love Mission in association w/ Sharon, l.P. Productions,
        Black Sun Rising & Sudzy Blunt Music, and the SF Cultural Assoc.
        A community Festivahl in celebration of music, peace, life, love,
        unity, free spirit & mind.
        Camp and party all weekend on beautiful wooded campgrounds encircled
        by a gorgeous flowing river.
        Bring family, drums, tents, etc.  Be prepared and waste conscious.
        Global Issues Pow-Wow Saturday & Sunday Afternoon.
        408-450-9799  415-974-9707  510-988-8858  916-558-0050  209-469-3161

Saturday, September 18th - Universe - more details as they become available.
	415-771-9525

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other
        goodwill thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to
        the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
        Also for the latest info on Mal you can dial (415) 241-1560.
        Every one's positive energy is DEFINITELY paying off.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Embark Info Line: 1-800-500-4001
Know it all: 415-905-9661
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
UP3 productions: 408-399-2611
408-296-1611 - 510-464-5999 - 916-558-3777
Flash: 415-541-5076 - 510-464-5959 - 408-236-2220
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by fliers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their 
appropriateness in being on the list, let me know....

Thursdays

YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 415-765-7670
	7/22 - Christine, Shobhan, Jan Cooley
Lush - Chris Lum & Ernie Munson - 715 Harrison @ 3rd	21+
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - 408-345-2386 Rick Preston, others
Shine - Djs Jelly & Jay-J + guests - 683 Clementia 
Zanzibar - Acid jazz and house.  DJ Suki.  (415) 695-7887.
Primal - Tribal, Techno, trance Dj's Lewis and Bryan Hughes - 9th and Harrison
Dog House (presented by Family Dog) 8-2am  261 California Ave, Burlingame - 21+
Virgin Mary - jan cooley, dutch, larry jr. - 2000 K street, Sacramento - 21+
ZONE - Future Thru Retro - house trance techno 70's funk - 55 Natoma, 21+
Capital F - weekly guests - $2 - 21+ 10-2AM - 668 Haight @ Pierce


Fridays 

Mission Rock - DJ's James, Gavin & others - 17th and Illinois. 415-241-8862 21+
Zanzibar - DJ Josh. 415-695-7887.  842 Valencia @ 19th St.
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300 21+
Mr. Happy's Disco - Jan Cooley & Aaron O - 174 King St, $8, 415.487.6237, 21+
F/X - Rick Preston and friends 400 south 1st street, San Jose - 408.298.9796
Soul System - 16th & Harrison, $5     415.979.5097  21+
        [7/16 - ernie munson, spun, josh, ghost]
        [7/23 - mark farina, harry who, alfie, dani]
Teknowledgy: the 303 nation - 538 Howard, $8 members, $10 non-members (?)
        [7/16 - Colin Dale (London), Onionz (NY), alfie, josh, buck]
Splash - 4am-12pm, Club O, 278 11th @ Folsom    FREE
Housing Project - 6am-1pm End Up 401 6th @ Harrison 21+ 


Saturdays 

Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - noon - blondies, 540 valencia@16th 415.487.6246
Nature - sound factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st - $10 21+ 10pm-7am (415)543-0101
	resident djs pete avila/doc martin/neon leon/jack de la rosa/aaron o
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762
The Fridge - Bassment of Big Heart City - DJ's Simon Jeno Thomas - 415-487-6305

Sundays

EndUp from 6am - 6th & Harrison
AfterLife - 6am-2pm 375 11th st * Dj Simon, Ernie * Smart Bar * Chill Room
Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 6am-2pm - breakfast cafe upstairs - 415-979-8845
Zanzibar - 1pm-9pm - James, Gavin, and Felix playing a mix of House and Funk
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 - DJ's Scott & Robbie, Digs & Woosh, 
        Tickets at both Bulletproof locations 629 Haight (255.7168)
        & upstairs at BPM  1141 Polk (567.8439)
Tilt-a-Whirl (the nighttime version) @ Thunder Bay, Berkeley - 415-647-GRUV 
Spundae - 8pm - ?    Guest DJs + Henrick - 55 Natoma, back of DV8
Nickie's (460 Haight) full house w/dj - 10pm-2am, 21+
Reunion (last Sunday of every month) - Yahoo Simon Garth 10-6am  (707)323-4708

Mondays 
Depth Chamber - 1190 Folsom @ 8th - 9-2am, 21+, (415)241-1560
Pepper.Deep House with Buck, Josh, Chris Lum. 668 Haight, 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 

Tuesdays 
Together - Basement of Big Heart City (339 Jessie)415-979-8825

Wednesdays 
Housing Project - 9-330am @ 401 6th st / harrison - 21+
Recycle - The Stone, SF - 18+ - 415-599-3750.
Pure Sugar - 415-905-9606 - free before 12, $2 after @ the Sound Factory
Boing - 201 Ninth at Howard - $2 b-4 12, $3 after - DJ Bugie w DRC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONNECTION 2 TAPES >> 4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr >>
contact Bob Ramstad boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com >>
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund >>
also at Tower Records Mountain View with the techno tapes
corner of San Antonio and El Camino Real
they have a Dali print with tigers on the front - $24.99 + tax
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

RADIO SHOWS: 

Saturday mornings 1-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7
Tuesdays, noon - 3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Francesco & Unknown KZSU, 90.1 FM. 
Tuesdays - 7:30-10:00pm 103.3fm KSCU Pete Gracious + special guest djs
Wednesdays, 10pm, KFJC, Foothill College (Santa Clara)
Thursdays, 7-9 on 91.3 FM KCPR San Luis Obispo - Beyond Techno, DJ EZ Whip.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351
  and
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 15:55:53 1993
From: michaeld@comm.mot.com (Michael Dvorkin)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 16:19:44 CDT
Subject: ???

please, subscribe

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 16:01:05 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 17:50:06 -0400
Subject: BPM21.ZIP


DJs...
I found BPM21 on a MIDI BBS in Chicago, uploaded it to the sfraves FTP site,
soda.berkeley.edu, and Brian stashed it in /pub/sfraves/music. It works
well, but seems to consistently come up 1 BPM shy of Pete Ashdown's
XDZebra review BPM listings. BPM21.ZIP also contains a weak database tool,
but since the fields are well-defined, you can import it into your
favorite database manager :-). If I come across the latest version (3.0), I'll
upload it ASAP. Does anyone have a MIDI tool that will yield BPMs?
Have a fun weekend...
harry

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 16:02:46 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 14:26:10 -0700
Subject: Re: The insider's RAVE guide 


oops. so people informed me that jslee's post was a complete joke. 
ok, well if so, then I'm blushing and will apply ky-jelly to my foot
in the hopes of extricating it from my mouth. i should remember not
to post soon after i wake up.

of course, given some of the past discussions I've had w/ jslee, he's
got my "hell-bent on capitalism at any cost" hot-button on a
hair-trigger and i responded in kind. I didn't happen to see any
smileys in there, just the warning that this was all in fun -- i took
the "fun" part as the snotty "insider" tone of voice, but not the
attempt to charge money for it... 

sorry.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 16:38:14 1993
From: rpcaras@srv.pacbell.com (Bob Carasik)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 14:54:38 PDT
Subject: Re: Material - Mantra (remixed by the Orb)


An unidentified life form opines that:

>I have this on the awesome Axiom Records Compilation "Manifestation
>Axiom Collection II" (c. 1993) -- killer trax on this include "Reality
>Dub (Virtual Reality Mix)" by Material (w/ Shabba Ranks + Sly&Robbie),
>the aforementioned "Mantra" track, Playin With FIre (Praxis Remix/Edit)
>by Material, Bahia Black's "Capitao do Asfalto", Nicky Skopelitis


Not to be missed on an NYC tip is the new "Masters At Work" CD
featuring tracks by Kenny Dope Gonzalez, Todd Terry and others.  The
first few tracks sound like what I wish all dancehall reggae sounded like
( sonic range, glistening snare drums, production values to the max ).
The remaining trax are deepish house a la Strictly Rhythm.  Available
on Cutting records, $12.99 at Stars.  

AstroBoy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 16:57:58 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 14:59:22 PDT
Subject: Once in a blue moon

I looked at my calendar last night and noticed something special.  Something
that only happens once in a blue moon.  There will be two full moon raves
next month.  Hurray.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 17:05:03 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 15:25:22 PDT
Subject: Re: The insider's RAVE guide

Niels rants:
> Wait, we're supposed to pay $15.00 for you to tell us that we should
> stay home and hit boogie buffet?
> 
> Sheesh,  [rant deleted]

Niels, it might be time to take a little break from that project
you're working on.  

PS.  I'm almost done with my Raver Hearing Aid Assembly (tm pending).  
The subwoofer enclosures weigh about 75 lbs each, but I've stabalized
them on my shoulders with a rather ingenius arrangement of coat hangers.

- leg of eel


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 17:20:47 1993
From: sap@lucid.com (Synthia Petroka)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 16:30:01 PDT
Subject: Once in a blue moon

Humm, according to my calendar, it's September.

-Synthia

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 17:32:54 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 14:06:55 PDT
Subject: Re: Speak, Fido! (was: Weekend in LA)

Come to think of it, there's a reason N2O is used to boost COMBUSTION engine
performance.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 17:39:51 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 15:37:43 PDT
Subject: Re: Todd Terry

Todd Terry
is this the guy that did "Batter Ram" a few years back?  it seems to
me that it is, tho i've heard the name batted around in house music circles
a few years back as well....

*

gotta break 'em off somethin...
and it's gotta be BUMPIN'

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 20:40:07 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 20:02:24 PDT
Subject: Re: Raver Hearing Aid

 
>  I'm almost done with my Raver Hearing Aid Assembly (tm pending).  
> The subwoofer enclosures weigh about 75 lbs each, but I've stabalized
> them on my shoulders with a rather ingenius arrangement of coat hangers.
> 
> - leg of eel
> 
 
 75lbs sounds a little heavy - how about lightening the load a little
with a helium ballon. I don't know how big the ballons would have to
be to lift 100+ lbs , but one advantage would be that they could be used
to win contests for "fattest" rave hat.

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com


-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 21:07:04 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Fri, 16 Jul 1993 20:51:41 -0700
Subject: I MAGI NATION


This party has been cancelled. Apparently the use of the word 'pagan' on the
flyers enraged numerous Christian fundamentalist groups in the surrounding
areas.  They put the pressure on, and according to Richard's latest message,
were behind the party being shut down.  He also mentioned something about
not having a permit (for this site?) message not clear on this area.  Makes
me wonder about the other sites.

Personally, I had a very rough day trying to get to the Sierras.  Leaving my
home in San Rafael around 10:30, heading north on 101, felt wonderful.  I
could almost feel those mountain breezes, taste the fresh air, and see what
will be a spectacular night sky this evening in my minds' eye.  I drove 45
miles and my truck did something it has never done...it overheated.  To make
a long story short, after getting as far as Fairfield, stopping in at two
gas stations, and two radiator shops, had no choice but to turn around.
Reluctantly and with a sad heart, I headed for home, driving between 40 and
55, stopping several times along the way to let the engine cool.
Fortunately my mechanic in San Rafael fixed my auto, he replaced the
thermostat. (the first radiator shop in Valleho wanted to pull it out, a
five hour job.  The second shop in Fairfield tested it and determined that
he wasn't certain it was the radiator.)

Home around 4:00, I struggled with whether I would drive tonight or tomorrow
morning.  I decided on tonight, leaving at eight I thought.  All the changes
of the past two days lingered and fortunately I called again at 7:30.

I know a few people who are driving great distances to make this party.  I
hope somehow that Spirit or luck guided them as well.

Speaking of christian fundamentalists, I would like to share a profound
definition of christianity I read recently, " Christianity, n.  A belief
system which has desperately tried to disprove everything Jesus Christ has
said for the past two thousand years."  Raves/parties when they are at their
best, epitomize everything this man named Jesus preached...loving each other
and getting along, accepting our differences, etc.  We know this.  It is why
we love the House Movement.  

I would venture to guess because of the network the fundamentalists have,
word will spread about the 'pagan' dances and they will attack again.  WE,
need to be ready for them.  Truly underground parties are just that,
underground, difficult for us to find, let alone fundamentalists. All the
other parties must be 'prepared' IMHO to legally stand our ground, which
brings up another topic.  The House Movement Cookbook...

The House Movement Cookbook would contain such information such as how to
acquire permits, fire marshall regulations (which may vary from state to
state, I don't know), recommended security per attendance (based on research
by q'ing producers across the world), etc.  ....thoughts?

It feels a little odd in retrospect, looking at the past week and all the
typing I did on behalf of Pyramid Lake.  I believe with all my heart that
everyone involved acted from a good heart space, a place of caring and love
for all of us, but I ask, is that enough?   Obviously not.  A final thought,
having met so many of you, I know that we will always be anarchists at
heart, however, doesn't it make sense that the House Movement become
organized?     Rave, rave, against the dying of the light.... --Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 22:26:27 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Fri, 16 Jul 1993 21:16:27 -0700
Subject: Re: The insider's RAVE guide

Ooops, I responded to Neils' first post without waiting to see if there
was a follow-up.  Neener-neener on me I guess.

Anyway, I was going to point out that perhaps even jslee didn't notice
it, but the Insider Report was basically an accurate name in one respect,
since it advises we stay inside this weekend :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 22:28:50 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Fri, 16 Jul 1993 21:21:54 -0700
Subject: Re:  I MAGI NATION

House Movement Cookbook -- great idea!  I'll be glad to volunteer my
editing/production talents :)  

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 16 23:25:39 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 22:34:13 -0700
Subject: "House Movement Cookbook"


  -Sounds like fun!
I'd like to help- maybye we could make this a collective/groupware project.
I'd say that on this list we have a wealth of talent..if we wrote
up a rave 'cookbook', it would be the definitive work on the subject,if
we really applied ourselves to it....And now with universal inter-platform
communications (almost) we should be able to group produce it, and
 send the files over the net.
Lets put together an outline,agree on standards for file transmission..
(key issue should be availability of software that would
 allow us all to participate)Do I sound like I'm raving..?
switch rant on..
I have some ideas for articles already..It could be sort of a ravers
edition of the early "Whole Earth Catalog" -with hooks to resources to
DIY everything at the minimum possible cost..
Sort of a multimedia (yes,we could do it as multimedia)
extention of the Rave FAQ.We already probably have the makins..
-chris.


From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 00:42:28 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 23:15:01 -0700
Subject: Insiders is THE Guide...

NEWS ALERT...NEWS ALERT...NEWS ALERT!

The reviews are in:
+++++++++++++++++++

Fred Says:"...but the Insider Report was basically an accurate name"

Neils P. Mayer emphatically said:"...we're supposed to pay $15.00"

Noah declared:"****Wow! sounds like what I do every night!"
++++++++++
YES!  Proof positive that the "INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE" is by far THE
definitive guide to parties here in the Bay area, because YOU said so!

Because of your overwhelming support and continued inspiration to make the
INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE the one to watch I will publish a second edition, for
FREE!
But look, please remember that publishing this "insider" info is a rare
opportunity to get a REAL peek at what goes on in the scene.  

Hell, it not only predicts your future, but provides important insider info
that you would not know about otherwise.  Because of this most rare feature
I must ask that you pay NOW for future issues by standard mail.  The price
is cheap $15 per issue (this is the second one so the $10 introductory fee
has been waived for your convenience, you can thank me later).  Remember
you will not be able to get issue 3 without the $15 fee.  As a matter of
fact, many of you already owe me at least that much for saving your butts
from driving to the desert/mountains/ski-resort/whatever, so relieve your
guilt and pay now!

Schmooze-a-thon:
I want to thank Fred, Neils, and Noah for their glaring approval of the
INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE.  Without you, I'm nothing!  xxoxxoxxxooo!

--------------------END INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE ANNOUNCEMENT -----------------------

This IS all for fun....puhleeze....;)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+             The rumors of my demise were, at best, virtual.              +
+                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com                       +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 00:47:50 1993
From: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 00:04:23 PDT
Subject: Aurgasm


i'm getting ready to do visuals again tomorrow at Aurgasm.
Been thinking all week of other toys to make/bring/play with. i 
probably won't get a chance to manifest even half of it this 
time around.  So much to tweak, so little time...

The opening time has changed to 11 -- we found out we're not 
going to be able to get into the space until 10.  A one hour
set-up should be challenging; we had more time last week, but
now we've had some practice at it.  Though i expect come 11 the
altars will still be under construction.  If you're into
participating in such things, feel free to pitch in and help.
And please bring things for the altars -- we're hoping they get
bigger and more interesting every week.

From larryc:
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

From barryale;
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

Once again, i'll be the one with lots of curly blonde hair, franticly
trying to extract melted slide from a projector.

		looking forward to That Vibe again,
			hope to see y'all there,
				gregg


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 09:20:05 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 8:47:12 PDT
Subject: Who's an Aurgasm SFRaver?


Gregg Helt posted this -
 
> >From larryc:
> >Is it supposed to be an all-nighter ? If so , what's the planned closing
> >time? I may take the train up to it , stay all night , and catch the train 
>
> We're scheduled to have the space till 8, so it'll probably close down ~7
> so we can pack everything up.

Great! I can hang out until 7AM , and catch the 8AM train back south. 

> >From barryale;
> >      how do i know an sfraver when i see one?
> We're everywhere :)
> 
> Once again, i'll be the one with lots of curly blonde hair, franticly
> trying to extract melted slide from a projector.
> 

 If I can dig it up from wherever , I'll be wearing an old SFR button. Oh
yeah , I'm also going to bring a small assortment of earplugs , to find out 
which ones work "best" . And my SPL meter, too.


				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
 
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 12:38:32 1993
From: sids-ah@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 11:40:26 -0700
Subject: raves

please e-mail me if there are any raves tonight 7-17.
also, please notify me of future raves.
Thankyou

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 12:50:58 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 12:01:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"

Hmm. The cookbook is a good idea. Is this going to be a SFRaves project
only?? 




Cindy


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 13:32:03 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 12:43:56 -0700
Subject: i thought i saw me i cyberfest


Either the carnival is coming to town, or cyberfest has been set up in
the supah-south of market area. you can check it out if you get off the
last exit on 280->N in SF (4th st?) and head towards the water over
that funky art-deco metal bridge. Sorry I don't know any of the street
names -- I learnt SF geography by spending the last 5 years getting lost...

I just happened to see it on my way over to mission rock last night.

Cyberfest looks so mahvelous that I'll just have to give it a miss. Not
that blowing $40.00  for an evening of fun w/ my girlfriend is gonna
cause any grief, but it just seems so overhyped and commercial. But...
I was almost excited about letting my electronic dialer doodad win me
tickets on KFJC, but alas I was 1 call off from being the 10th caller
so I missed it. Aw shucks.

I hear they got some neato circus things going, like the huge 40 foot
phallus that jerks itself erect over the expectant crowd, and an evil
clown that cackles at you insanely while you're tripping.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 14:14:45 1993
From: menchett@cs.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 13:15:04 PDT
Subject: STICKERS TO PROMOTE YOUR NEXT RAVE


Hey hey...

For your next rave, plug it shamelessly by plastering the town
with vinyl stickers!

Very cheap, and very high quality vinyl screen printed stickers.

Details: menchett@cs.unr.edu

$15 buys 100 2 color vinyl stickers!!




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 15:09:07 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 17 Jul 1993 13:59:58 -0700
Subject: Re:  "House Movement Cookbook"

And of course the House Movement Cookbook Gopher for online access!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 15:14:09 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 17 Jul 1993 14:02:36 -0700
Subject: Re:  Who's an Aurgasm SFRaver?

I'll be there too, but not exactly sure when.  Prolly check out
Cyberfarfle first.  I'll have my vrave badges with me :-)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 15:40:57 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 17 Jul 1993 15:10:18 -0700
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"

Thanks.  What I had in mind regarding the House Movement Cookbook project is
broader than sfraves.  I would like as many people as possible to have
input, people who produce parties, the artists (DJ's, sound and visual
crews, graphic designers, mural artists, etc.), and the thousands that dance
(while varied, they know what works and what doesn't work) at parties.  I
plan on seeking guidance and information from the men and woman who have
been involved in production, both successfully and unsuccessfully.  

The primary purpose of the HMC is to determine what it is going to take for
us to be able to continue to party, and to evolve in the process knowing
that there are many people/organizations which would love to see us shut
down for good.  

With all of this in mind,and knowing that the HMC is a booklet for survival,
where do we begin?  With a table of contents, an outline.  Please email your
thoughts to me through sfraves.  Peace through music and dance....--Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 16:39:15 1993
From: Tai Truong <ttruong@husc.harvard.edu>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:28:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"



On Sat, 17 Jul 1993, Fred Heutte wrote:

> And of course the House Movement Cookbook Gopher for online access!

yeah!, is there a gopher service now for rave related stuff?

Tai



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 16:42:29 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 15:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

Just curious to find out if any of the people who drove out to the Sierra
ski ranch are back yet.  Some of my housemates (The MESS people) left with
their own sound system, so maybe they got it set up, who knows?  Were
there many people who actually did show up without calling?  Luckily, I
found out about the cancellation about 15 minutes before leaving. 
Pheeewww!  But maybe some of you managed to have a good time up
there anyway.  I look forward to hearing at least a few interesting
stories about it.

/////////{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<<<<<232>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\\


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 17:21:35 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 15:58:15 -0700
Subject: Re:  "House Movement Cookbook"

>And of course the House Movement Cookbook Gopher for online access!


Only thing I wanna know is will I be able to "finger" it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 17:29:12 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 15:58:09 -0700
Subject: Re: i thought i saw me i cyberfest

>Either the carnival is coming to town, or cyberfest has been set up in
>the supah-south of market area. you can check it out if you get off the
>last exit on 280->N in SF (4th st?) and head towards the water over
>that funky art-deco metal bridge. Sorry I don't know any of the street
>names -- I learnt SF geography by spending the last 5 years getting lost...
>
>I just happened to see it on my way over to mission rock last night.
>
>Cyberfest looks so mahvelous that I'll just have to give it a miss. Not
>that blowing $40.00  for an evening of fun w/ my girlfriend is gonna
>cause any grief, but it just seems so overhyped and commercial. But...
>I was almost excited about letting my electronic dialer doodad win me
>tickets on KFJC, but alas I was 1 call off from being the 10th caller
>so I missed it. Aw shucks.
>
>I hear they got some neato circus things going, like the huge 40 foot
>phallus that jerks itself erect over the expectant crowd, and an evil
>clown that cackles at you insanely while you're tripping.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Gee thanks Neils for another well placed endorsement of "Insider's Guide...".
CyberUgly will be a three ring circus of clowns and foolishness. So much so
that there will be bleacher seats for the spectators of this very original
"bread & circuses" event.  And whoever said this was NOT the new Roman
Empire...

As a very famous French Royalty once said: "let them eat MASSIVE!"

I have decided to go to CyberUgly.  I will igest HUGE quantities of
hallucinogens, afterwhich  I will perform my special act (BTW it was
requested by the inventors of CyberUgly), knife throwing!  I have never
thrown or even weilded a knife in my life.  But the good folks at CyberUgly
have been nice enough to give me my first big break!  There will be a real
live spinning wheel to which will be strapped, at various times during the
evening, one of the members of the CyberUgly posse.  Man I'm so excited
I've had an erection all day (measures about 40 feet).  Which leads me to
the other thing I have been so graciously asked to do.... 


As they day "MASSIVE ON DUDE!".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Peace...


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 18:05:23 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 16:17:51 PDT
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?



	In short... it was a BIG fiasco.
	Richard has a kot of explaining to do,
	A lot of people lost ime, money, burned a lot of gas, etc.
	Manny people were disillusioned and then his message blames it
	all on the native americans.


			- G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 18:11:29 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 16:49:54 -0700
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"

>yeah!, is there a gopher service now for rave related stuff?

I think the FTP site here at soda is available via gopher from sfraves.
stanford.edu.  As soon as I compile a gopher daemon you could gopher right
to here....

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 18:47:37 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 17:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: i thought i saw me i cyberfest

> 
> >Either the carnival is coming to town, or cyberfest has been set up in
> >the supah-south of market area. you can check it out if you get off the
> >last exit on 280->N in SF (4th st?) and head towards the water over
> >that funky art-deco metal bridge. Sorry I don't know any of the street
> >names -- I learnt SF geography by spending the last 5 years getting lost...
> >
Too bad nobody thought of having a renegade party tonight, especially
having I-magin-a-tion shut down. Oh well. Anyone know of what other
alternatives other than Aurgasm and "CyberUgly" tonight?



Cin


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 19:57:58 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:38:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bored and Wanna Make Bubbles??

Ever since Leah, Tamara, Brian B, Bryan S, and I saw the Bubble Man in
South Pasedena, I thought it would be nice if we saw more bubbles at raves:).
Why not? It's nice outside and they're fun. I found the Exploratorium
Bubble Solution Formula when I cleaned up my room.:)

2/3 cup Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent

add water to make 1 gallon

add 1 tablespoon glycerine (available at the drugstore)


Notes: solution becomes better with age and recommend that it be allowed
to sit in an open container for at least one day before use..

Interesting ways to make bubbles= hoops of any size, two drinking straws
with string threaded through them, using the straws as handles, juice cans
with the ends removed and taped together to make long trumpets, coat
hanger shapes, Slinky's, etc.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 20:05:44 1993
From: "Peter W. McKenna" <kosho@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:56:41 -0700
Subject: Friday JULY 23, Come DANCE at INVISION

INVISION the hottest dance music, from ambient to tribal to the funkiest
techno.  INVISION lights by REED, toasted video, cool mutimedia lounge and
freedom from smoke and alcohol.  "I walked into the dance room and the
energy was so intense I felt like I was making love!"  Call 415 257-3882 fro
details and location.  And remember, Friday July 23, Come INVISION the
frequency of LOVE!

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 20:37:54 1993
From: "Peter W. McKenna" <kosho@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:48:20 -0700
Subject: INVISION Conscious Dance Event posting

Come Dance at INVISION, the Bay Area's only conscious multimedia dance
event!  INVISION features the hottest dance music from modern dance before
midnight to ambient, tribal and funky techno after midnight, fantasy 
lights, toasted video, cool multimedia lounge all in a smoke and alcohol
free invironment.  Call 415 257-3882 for details and location!
"I walked into the dance room and the energy was so intense I felt like I
was making love!"

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 20:46:23 1993
From: "Peter W. McKenna" <kosho@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:54:03 -0700
Subject: Friday July 23, Come DANCE at INVISION

INVISION the hottest dance music, from ambient to tribal to the funkiest
techno.  INVISION lights by REED, toasted video, cool multimedia lounge
and freedom from smoke and alcohol!  "I walked into the dance room and the
energy was so intense I felt like I was making love!"  Call 415 257-3882
for details and location.  And remember, Friday July 23, Come INVISION the
frequency of LOVE.
,

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 21:08:28 1993
From: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 20:22:52 -0700
Subject: Laser ?

Driving in redwood city I saw this place half being built
that had a sign that said " A ton of Fun With A Laser Gun " and opneing soon.
Anyone know ? Is this a VR arcade ?
			- Delchi

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 17 23:24:20 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 22:29:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

	big fiasco is right.  gristle and i and my newbieraver pona
	housemate got to the *fourth* site, saw the mess there,
	and left to go camp at emerald bay.  one massive overdose
	and no sleep later, we drove to tahoe city where i got slack
	cheap jetski rentals and mr. doughey slept in the wbl-mobile.
	it was a fun trip, but raving there was none.

	<gristle> i hope this doesn't destroy richard's credibility.
		 	  do you think it will rocky?

	well i don't know, but though the man has a heart of gold
	he really fucked this whole imagination thing up.  a pile
	of permits and contracts might have done better than smudge 
	sticks and karma.  not that those are bad, it's just that 
	the quthorities dont really play by those rules.

	so richard, how will you makje it up to us?

	looking back, i think we had more fun than cybergyp will be 
	able to offer us.

calirock


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 12:00:28 1993
From: nrg@netcom.com (Ethan I. Miller)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 11:51:43 PDT
Subject: Tilt-a-Whirl Update

Howdy Gang,

Contrary to vicious rumours, Thunder Bay *is not* condemned.
Rather, it is the weekly home of Tilt-a-Whirl.
This weeks lineup:
  Tony
  Markie
  LaPaix
  Carlos
  Dutch

Thunder Bay, Berkeley, July 18, 8pm - Dawn 
Call 415.647.GRUV for more info.

See ya
nrg
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 13:58:29 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 13:03:35 -0700
Subject: Re:  Tilt-a-Whirl Update

I might be doing the Tilt tonight.  Also there appears to be something
happening outside at the Aquatic Park today sponsored by the T.H.C.
people, whoever they are. 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 14:05:26 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 12:59:34 PDT
Subject: Aurgasm Interruptus


A new way for a rave to get shut down ...

 With my test set of four pairs of earplugs , I caught the train from San
Jose. When I got to King St. , I met a bunch of SFRavers waiting outside
for the setup to complete. 

 Once we got in , it was as reported last week - big altar in the main area,
small "shrines" in the hallway. Music was housey , then trancey - some 
folks liked it , some didn't ( I'm tired and dazed - sorry for the sloppy
reporting ).

 ANYWAY - I was helping to distribute flyers for Your Sister's House , when
I noticed the table for the flyers that was in the hallway was gone. Then, 
a few minutes later, I noticed that the candy stand and another piece
of furniture was being taken from the King St. side to the Townsend side 
( a leather dudes dance was occuring on the Townsend side ).
 
 At around 2:30AM , the attendence for Aurgasm was about up to 40 people. At
that particular point , only five people were on the dance floor , including
me. Then , the house lights came on , for what I thought was dramatic
effect. But then , a security guard told the DJ to shut it down. 

 So ,I asked another security guard what was up , and she said that
it was being shut down because the club was loosing money on it. 

 I helped Greg take his stuff down , and then I left with Randy & his
girlfriend Auburn. We hung out at Charter Oak , on the rumor of something
happening there, but no luck. So, we left San Francisco .


				What a $#*!@ drag ...

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

PS - Has any other rave in this area been shut down for this reason?
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 14:15:52 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 13:26:47 PDT
Subject: Earplug Report


Last night , I tested four types of earplugs at Aurgasm - after my 
A/B testing ( which included different types of earplugs in each ear 
at a time , and cupping my hand over one ear to hear the other better ) ,
my objective rating of the sound qualities of them are as follows -

	#1	Wet facial tissue
	#2	Foam plugs
	#3	Sonic II musician's earplugs
	#4	Tie: dry facial tissue vs Silly Putty in kitchen wrap


Advantages and disadvantages of each:

	Wet facial tissue: Cheap , and the raw material is multi-purpose. 
	 Needs a sourch of water or acceptable liquid. Custom sizing.
         Can be formed so that the whole ear canal isn't blocked , 
	 allowing more high freqs into the ear than other designs.
	 Sometimes hard to remember if a sheet is "new" or "used". :-( 
	 If it dries out , still better than #4 , since the dampness
	 makes the plugs more compact when they dry out.

	Foam plugs: Cheaper than Sonic IIs . Many brands - I used the
	 conical "nose cone" yellow ones , other brands may not have the 
	 same performance or comfort. The ones I used where big enough to 
	 sit in my ear ridge without being jammed too far into my
	 ear canal. Comfortable.

	Sonic II : Most expensive of the ones tested. Before breaking
	 in , the rubber ridges may be a little too stiff for comfort.
	 About the same high freq or better than foam plugs , but 
	 the cost /benefit ratio seems high. Also , less easy to adjust 
	 volume & tonal balance by pulling out than other designs. ( Feels
	 like it may fall out ).

	Dry facial tissue : Cheap ( see "wet facial tissue" for common
	 qualities ). Bunches instead of compacts , therefore (?) the
	 tonal qualityis more muffled. Also , harder to control shape,
	 since dry tissue tends to spring back after wadding.

	Silly Putty : Slightly wierd tone - sounds are attenuated ,but
	 "thumps" are accentuated. Easily formed ( I forgot to try the 
	 trick of partially-blocking the ear canal - maybe some other
	 rave ). Probably more expensive than foam earplugs.

			So much for this week's consumer ratings - 
				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 16:32:21 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 15:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Tilt-a-Whirl Update



On Sun, 18 Jul 1993, Fred Heutte wrote:

> I might be doing the Tilt tonight.  Also there appears to be something
> happening outside at the Aquatic Park today sponsored by the T.H.C.
> people, whoever they are. 

THC stands (in this case) for Total House Commitment, which is in some way
connected to Primal Records in Berkeley.  The Aquatic Park thang sounds
pretty cool.  Might be a good thing to check out on a bright sunny sunday
afternoon.
///////////{{{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<<<<232>>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 16:37:19 1993
From: jpp@markv.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 15:16:34 PDT
Subject: I MAGI NATION

  I broke free from work at 1800, and began my drive from LA to Tahoe
for the I-Magi-Nation event.  The weather was nice to be out riding a
motorcycle, and near the end of a fine sunset seen from inside the
centrall valley, I was treated to a shooting star!  Later a nice dark
sky full of the more sedatly moving stars shined down.  At the gas
station on highway 50, a little past the sign very thoughtfully
provided (by the promoters and the highway maintanence people I
presume), at about 0100 in the morning, I met a couple of really
groovy guys.  (Hi Jim!  Hi Rob!  !wave!)  We talked about the
movement, past events, PGP, the net, and what to do with that evening
and the next.

  I did a lot of thinking this weekend, and for me I think the house
movement is ultimately about that positive vibration.  It is about
taking a spark of joy, faning it to flames, passing it around among
others to build a bonfire.  It is about building up your own ability
to recognize the good in every day.  It is about conecting with
people, and giving each other a bit more joy.  It is about this great
positive feedback loop we are building.

  Peace.

j'
--
                O I am Jay Prime Positive jpp@markv.com 
1250 bit key fingerprint =  B8 95 E0 AF 9A A2 CD A5  89 C9 F0 FE B4 3A 2C 3F
 524 bit key fingerprint =  8A 7C B9 F2 D5 46 4D ED  66 23 F1 71 DE FF 51 48
Public keys by `finger jpp @hermix.markv.com' or pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu
Your feedback is welcome, directly or via symbol JPP on hex@sea.east.sun.com

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 16:39:08 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 15:19:54 -0700
Subject: Cruel World/Cyberdust

I was in Scramento on business Thursday and Friday, so I caught the
last train to SF and headed down to Mission Rock, which was fun.
If you haven't been there, it's an old fisherman's bar and restaurant
with reputedly the worst hamburgers in the Bay Area.  It's in a sort
of boathousetructure down at the Bay northeast of Potrero Hill
on the backside of 3rd Ave, I guess 17th and Illinois is the officka
address.
 
There was an ambient room downstairs, an upstairs bar and an outdoor
deck with a small light show running at the near end and the DJ table
at the far end.  Pretty nice crowd, and the deck was full with dancers
for most of the time.  I heard Gavan and Mark Farina and a couple
others I couldn't identify; I was a bit disappointed with Mark
Farina's set, actually.  With a fare of $5 I'd put Mission Rock
on the "recommended" list for being small, friendly and low key!
I saw BrianB, Derek and a few other folks there, and got to show off
my new production-run vrave badge :)
 
I spent the day Saturday "doing Haight St."  Spent well over an
hour at Tweakin' going through some of their new releases before
settling on an ambient CD compilation.  so had nice visits at
Housewares and Ameba, where I heard that due to the cancellation
of Imagination, the Wicked crew might be doing a local renegade.
 
Met up with Maureen (metalmau) on the way in to Cyberfest.  We got
there early -- right around 8.  It was pretty much a through-and-
through disaster.  For your $20 or $25 you got: an enormous line,
lengthy wait and continual confusion on the way in; your water bottles
confiscated; a "rave" on a large abandoned field which used to house
warehouses or who knows what, replete with rocks, dust and scrub;
one big, one medium and one small tent with ill-positioned sound
stuff that actually sounded better outside than in; several thousand
attendees, split about 20% rave vets, 20% club types and 60% truly
clueless; lots of great DJs and crowded, chaotic, dusty, tobacco-ey
dancing areas; one big carney ride, a trapeze setup (kinda cool,
actually), a big slide, a VR setup run by what looked like real
carneys; dust; ONE trash can in the entire place; two places to
buy bottled water; dust; about 15 tables selling various things
from t-shirts and jewelry to BobR selling C II and Carlos tapes
and the new Garth CD; dust; go-go dancers on a platform in the
middle of the midway; one fairly nice laser light show; dust;
dust; dust.
 
I finally decided to bail around 3 am.  Maureen and I and a couple
of her friends took a quick tour through the main tent.  The
"friendly" security staff standing on one of the platforms in
the middle had been replaced by a woman who had taken her top
off and was dancing to the ogling of the assembled crowd in the
dark dusty space.
 
We met up with some nice folks outside and persuaded them that their
decision not to go in was a wise one :)  Then we left and stopped
outside the CalTrain station to call the Wicked line.  The message
said they had set up by a yellow Penske truck in the lot at
4th between Townsend and Berry, but when we went back there was
nobody there.  And nobody at King St. either.  We knew by then
the night was over, so we gave up and headed home.
 
I called the Wicked line about 4, just after a new message was
posted.  Apparently they had set up for a short while but were
hassled by the police, so they packed up and went home, with
an optimistic footnote about finding a space to set up sometime
today (nothing yet as I write).
 
Conclusion: Cool World are a bunch of greedy if semi-competent creeps.
What they had was a carnival with house and techno music.  I wonder how many
thousands of people there last night think that "raves" are all like that.
I pretty much knew it would turn out like this, but the vibe-out
from this thing was so bad that it flattened everything else
within miles ;-{
 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 17:30:46 1993
From: "Pete Reiter" <megatest!plethorax!preiter@uu2.psi.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 15:59:33 PDT
Subject: CyberCircus

Well, we people said Cyberfest was going to be a 3-ring circus, I didn't really
take them literally. Maybe I should have. The trapeze act was the giveaway.
The cotton candy was an interesting touch too. There was also a skateboarding
exhibition, jugglers, unicyclists and who knows what I missed.

The crowd was very young, so luckily there weren't alot of people using the beer
concession. The were alot of majorly messed up people, though. Low smileback
percentage, but there were some. Saw a few friends, but very few for a party
this huge. My main problem with the crowd was that the just didn't seem to care.
Everyone just walked around looking for something interesting. Low percentage
of people dancing, lots of apathy.

On the plus side, there were some killer sets of music played.

All in all, it seemed more like an all night street fair than a rave. I'm just
glad I didn't have to pay to get in.

						Pete

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 17:57:32 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 16:33:07 -0700
Subject: Wild Goose Chase

Friday night rave festivities started for me at 2AM, when Rob and Johnny T 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 18:04:15 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 16:30:25 -0700
Subject: Re: I MAGI NATION

Wow...it's pretty interesting to come across someone who isn't utterly pissed
off by driving all the way up there for a cancelled event, especially from LA!
What did you end up doing that weekend? Much respect for finding the good in a
fiasco...

Tamara

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 18:10:28 1993
From: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 16:44:56 -0700
Subject: What ?!

What is this bullshit I keep hearing aoubt people taking away water bottles 
at events ? I mean.. Wait a second, what is the REASOn for this? Is
water suddenly illegal? Or is it a brand name thing. 
now Im not that numb, I know its a $$ thing, but lets be realistic....
How owuld you like it if you were refused to bring water other places. 
Surely there must be a way to stop this ? Besided getting a grip.

		- Delchi

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 18:15:47 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 16:53:40 -0700
Subject: mythical party

Teknowledgy at 538 Howard was cancelled for some reason on Friday.  Anyone know why? Rob, Johnny T, and I arrived there around 2:15 to find this out so we      rushed over to Mission Rock which had just closed and saw everyon
we bumped into Derek (Happy Birthday!) who told us that a beach party was 
supposed to be going on down in Daly City so we all went there and waited for
about an hour for the sound system to be set up. We left after about an hour of
2 Bad Mice and T99 spun at +8 (like no one would notice!) I just wasn't in the
mood for the rave anthems of 1991, especially on Chipmunk speed...went home &
crashed at 5:45 in time to wake up and go to the ...

Taber Alley Market with Bryce and Cindy. This was very cool...it's every 
Saturday at 501 Taber Alley right off of 3rd (just before Bryant)...it's an
upstairs loft where fashion designers come bring their club wears (just a few
designers, this place was very friendly but largely empty) and they have a
DJ spinning acid jazz (I think it was Gerry V)...Bryce and I cleaned the place
out...

All in all, a pretty cool Friday/Saturday, but we sort of spent it looking for
that mythical party that never really happened...

Tamara

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 19:14:47 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:41:32 -0700
Subject: Re:  CyberCircus

Lucky you, that you didn't have to pay to get in...Personally, I would like
my money back......Cyberdust, rust in peace....  --Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 19:21:05 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:37:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

That some of u seemed to think that promoters who dissed thousands year old
native traditions, a key decades old native struggles, could possibly thro a
good vibe party is beyond my meager limits of comprehension.  my instant
karma message said it all.  now richard blames it all on a corrupt tribal
gommint.  truth is indian systems weork differe=nt then ours, as any real
contact would have shown him.  & no decisions are made in 7 days.

at worst, the tribal councils are corrupt only to the same degree as most
rave promoters.  but i was quite surprised at the gullibility level of some
sfravers.

peace
alpha-10

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 19:28:13 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:49:20 -0700
Subject: Re:  mythical party

I don't know if it is pure circumstance or not, but I find it intereesting
today to note that THE ONLY PARTY THAT DIDN'T GET SHUT DOWN THIS WEEKEND
APPREAS TO BE CYBERFEST....   ...---...---...---...---...---

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 19:34:25 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:47:16 -0700
Subject: Re:  What ?!

Regarding "How can we stop promoters from confiscating our water bottles?"
I hope such answers will be found someday in a booklete I'd like to
put together---the House Movement Cookbook. (in the line above answers is
also recipes, and delete the e on booklet.  Last night at Cyberdust, had I
drank the water I normally do, I would have had to spend $6-8 on water...
--Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 20:30:29 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 18:48:38 -0800
Subject: sunday report

drove towards Boogie Buffet this morning, and had to detour around a  
roadblock along 14th st (for a bunch of people running).  when my detour was  
thwarted by another roadblock (same event) i turned around and came home, and  
had what might be the limit case of a micro-rave.  two things to report from  
this happy experience:

first, i really like the Garth CD (No Rest for the Wicked), which provided  
about half the entertainment this afternoon.  sometimes garth spins sets less  
to my taste - "housey" (divas on top of monotonous beats).  not this set -  
it's quite varied, skillfully mixed, and well engineered (sounds notably  
better than most mix tapes).  i hope Luv Phasers Productions keeps the  
momentum up.

second, i noticed the room was getting a little warm and started to take my  
shirt off.  with nobody else around to be weirded out or judge, the rest of  
the clothes came off too.  wow - what a wonderful feeling to move around  
unencumbered by even the loosest, lightest, "most comfortable" clothing.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 20:34:31 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:49:34 -0700
Subject: Re:  mythical party

why did teknowledgy fail?

several djs & producers i talked 2 said the music was topoline, but basic
idea far above general crowd taste.  2nd reason was that all "hardcore"
ravers wouldn't go cuz of location at dv8, tho producer's completely changed
place's vibe w/ grat visuals & gen'l goodness.  as 1 of buck's best dj
friend's fro europe, colin (harder than hardcore) dale had to bail on trip
to sf because of winkie's pullout, he was way bummed.

alpha

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 21:04:46 1993
From: jpp@markv.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 18:39:20 PDT
Subject: Re: I MAGI NATION

  What did I do this weekend?  Well, mostly I drove.  And actually, I
got a few smilebacks to quote Pete <megatest! plethorax! preiter@
uu2. psi. com>.  It is a road bike thing to wave at each other, and
visit in gas stations.  But I also helped out a few people driving
south on 5 (opened up passing space), and got one def smileback!

  So anyhow, I hope you all had a good weekend, danced your asses off,
doin the high energy joy glow go go thang.  So, how was Boogie Buffet?
And tell me what groovy things did you do (are you doing) this
weekend!

j'
--
                O I am Jay Prime Positive jpp@markv.com 
1250 bit key fingerprint =  B8 95 E0 AF 9A A2 CD A5  89 C9 F0 FE B4 3A 2C 3F
 524 bit key fingerprint =  8A 7C B9 F2 D5 46 4D ED  66 23 F1 71 DE FF 51 48
Public keys by `finger jpp @hermix.markv.com' or pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu
Your feedback is welcome, directly or via symbol JPP on hex@sea.east.sun.com

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 21:55:19 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 20:33:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

	you don't know richard sun.  he did fuck up but he does not
	diss thousand year old traditions.  you need to think before
	you post some of the things you post mr. super in the know
	alpha10 person.

calirock


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 21:59:57 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 20:36:14 -0700
Subject: water


	there *must* be a law on the books that a bar or dancing
	establishment needs to provide water free of charge...
	and make it a crime to purposely deny the flow of free
	water... like shutting down fountains.  it seems to me
	that at dancing kind of places, water is a necessity just
	like emergency exits are a necessity.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 22:29:23 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 21:19:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

>but i was quite surprised at the gullibility level of some sfravers.

unfortunately, I was not.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 18 22:33:41 1993
From: susie <SK2479A@american.edu>
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 93 00:15:55 EDT
Subject:      hello

hiya hiya hiya....i will be returning from dc/nyc to sf permentanly on
tuesday the 20th of july...wheee i have tons of pictures and flyers and
and stories and other goodies to show and tell...wheee...i will be getting
an apartment...(eek i have to find one) and will post my new phone number then.
.but until then i will be with mykl g until the 24th...i will be at ysh and
da benefit...come say hello...and let me put names with emails..wheee...(:(:
i can't wait to meet the people i have seemed to never meet when i am in town!
people can reach me at 415 334 8421 on the 22 of july ( i am surprising my mom
for her birthday...and she is not to know i will be in town..hehehh) or you can
call mykl...he ought to know where i am...wheee....so hello everyone!

PARTYON...SUSIE(:


p.s. if you would like to go to dinner with mykl and i on tuesday night email h
im....( i guess) and does anyone have a good suggestion of a cool place to go??
? wheee...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 00:47:12 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 00:04:37 -0700
Subject: Re:  What ?!

The ostensible reason for confiscating water bottles is that they may
be used to bring  in alcohol or else dosed.  But in reality, it's a
way to gear up sales for the water concession.  I think sealed bottles
of water should be allowed in; BGP events have no trouble with that.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 01:25:25 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 00:36:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

>        you don't know richard sun.  he did fuck up but he does not
>        diss thousand year old traditions.  you need to think before
>        you post some of the things you post mr. super in the know
>        alpha10 person.
>
>calirock

i duuno what you were thinking about...but so far alpha10 has been right on
the money.  did the research, did the calling.  Obviously more than some
promoters of late have done...lets get real:


The FACT is that little IMAGI-stunt is one of the many reasons people are
staying home these days.  Promoters promise the world, deliver crap.  The
FACT is if the homework was done ahead of time alot of BS coulda been
avioded.  But as usual things got fucked up....FAST!  

Sorry, but promoters have got to be held responsible for their event! Good
inentions don't mean shit when promises cannot be delivered.

As for Cyber-orgasma-confusion, it was what it said it was gonna be. 
Knowing that was enough to convince me to stay home.  I'll wait for a more
focused event (but I won't hold my breath ;)

Until the next three-ring-circus of confusion...and even MORE broken
promises by money-scamming promoters....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 02:46:49 1993
From: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 01:54:18 PDT
Subject: Aarrghhh(asm)!


Yep, as Larry reported, we got busted by our own security.  Things are
starting to get rather surreal.

	So i got there ~10pm to help setup (after getting pulled over on
the way there :(  ).  As we were setting up these two _huge_ security 
guards came around checking everyone's IDs.  A first intimation that 
things were not well -- setup crews don't get carded very often, do they? 
About half the people setting up got kicked out for lack of ID, including
bbehlen who put a lot of work into getting the projection screens up 
(thanks Brian!).  Many of these people were clearly in their mid-20s to
30s, and most had been there the previous weekend without any hassle.
They also removed some items from the altar that had been fine the week
before (okay, a sword, but sheathed and dull...).

	Once we opened up, the security people stood at the doors looking
ominous, checking backpacks, confiscating water, and using a metal detector
when they felt like it.  Kind of like a Vibe filter.  Still, some Vibe 
leaked through, people were friendly and seemed to be enjoying the scene.  
Very small crowd though (for that space).  When i was outside it seemed a
number of (obviously 21+) people were getting turned away for lack of
ID.
	The altars were gorgeous again, red in the hallway, flowers 
everywhere -- red carnations and roses in the hallway and bathrooms, white 
on the inside altar and around the DJ, piles of oranges, lots of candles, 
trinkets, icons, imagery, reading material.  i liked the music, though i 
missed the chanting stuff that was played at the beginning last weekend.

	Anyway, ~2:15, up go the lights, security tells us it's over, no
amount of talking has any effect.  The owner doubts the costs will be 
covered, they're not making money at the bar, so they're shutting it down. 
Aargh.  i felt this was pretty unbelievable treatment.  Apparently they had 
considered not letting it even open, which would have been pretty harsh 
but i guess understandable (since they were still owed some money from the
week before), but to pull the plug halfway through is really lousy, and 
doesnt't really make much business sense either.

	No real possibility of an alternative site, since we were using 
the club's sound system (which is an advantage unless of course you get 
kicked out of the club).  So we packed up the stuff for the altars (a _lot_ 
of stuff) and the visual equipment -- thanks for giving us a hand, Larry.
While loading, another 20-30 people drove up looking for a party :(  And as 
we left a bunch of cars were pulling up, which i'm guessing were coming 
over from Wicked having just been busted in the Cyberfest parking lot (but
what a great place to throw a renegade!).  Urrgh.  i mean, the people at 
174 King _know_ what kind of hours ravers keep -- like i said, shutting 
us down that early didn't make much business sense.

	Well, on the bright side i practiced senseless acts of beauty on
the way back, handing out roses to people roaming the streets :)

	Apologies to Larry, Randy, Auburn, and all the rest of you who came. 
whose names i'm spacing right now.  People in the collective are scouting 
out other spaces, particularly a warehouse, to keep this event alive (and 
hopefully become all ages).  Good people, good concept, wrong space.

					hoping for better,
					gregg

 


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 04:46:49 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 03:58:00 -0700
Subject: Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

   Thursday night I went to Your Sister's House after a meeting for the Great
Day Times newspaper.  The location was nice and cozy, but I think I was a
bit tired and the first two DJ's (Chad, male but definitely a sister and
the guy who owned the space, and Dani) were not the most energetic to me,
so I left around 1.  I heard it really got pumping after I left so my 
loss I guess :)

	Friday night I went to Mission Rock and had a MOST excellent time.
That was the first time I had heard either Mark Farina or Onionz, and I was
very impressed.  Mark was bouncing around all different kinds of styles,
acid jazz here, trance there, etc - and even though the changes were
rapid it had a flow to it.... anyways lots of friendly people are there,
and it now goes until 3am so it's perfect for anyone who doesn't want to do
the full-blown drive-50-miles-pay-$20 deal.  Also great for first-timers.
The bad vibe that usually accompanies 21+ clubs is completely absent too.
After that Phred and I went for burritos at an all-night place on Mission
and called it a night....

	Mission Rock was also where I had heard of I Magi Nation's 
cancellation.  

Randy writes:
> i was quite surprised at the gullibility level of some sfravers.

to which John S Lee replies:
>unfortunately, I was not.

Sorry for being "gullible" to give people the benefit of the doubt, to
at least give a concept a fighting chance and support it if it had the
potential to be good.  So, is there NO hope for reconciliation between
the Native Americans and the rave scene?  And if there is, isn't there
an obligation to at least try it?  Instead of berating those who try,
why don't people focus their energy on guiding the forces in action so
that it does happen?  With all your connections to the Native Americans,
Randy, why didn't you try and give Richard a hand in what was going on?
Why was his operation doomed from the start?  So far the only real concrete
thing I've heard is "pagan love fest", which I admit I can understand 
their having a problem with and Richard probably could have done better
than put that on the flyer.... 

The point stands, though, that while I and others were doing everything we
felt we could in terms of supporting this venture (INCLUDING trying to
include you in on a positive manner randy) and you did nothing but give us
doomsday prophecies.  Richard may not be the most competant party planner
but he certainly has his heart in the right place.  Can you really blame
him if he goes through what he sees as the proper channels and gets 
permission, only to have the rug pulled out from under his by intertribal 
warring?  Yes, there is still a lot to blame on him, still a lot of backup
work he could have done.  Richard just needs a good admiral who can focus 
his energy and dreams into reality.  There were a LOT of people revved up
to go out to Nevada.  

John S Lee continues:

>The FACT is that little IMAGI-stunt is one of the many reasons people are
>staying home these days.  Promoters promise the world, deliver crap.  The
>FACT is if the homework was done ahead of time alot of BS coulda been
>avioded.  But as usual things got fucked up....FAST!  

This is true only if you are the type that think, "well, hell I'm paying
$20 I want a show!" - you're not renting a movie!  If you think the 
promoters' gonna take care of all your whims and BE the party for you then
your head isn't on very straight.  I mean, think about what has made the
best parties you've been to great, and most often it has to do either with
the people who go or sheer luck.  Especially with something like what I
Magi Nation could have been, the shared burden of getting to the site (or
the backup site) would have brought the people together and made the party
before it even began.  The full moons are like this at their best.  The
two Connections were like this.  I think that berating promoters for not
"delivering" is the gullible and naive stance, not the other way around.

I didn't believe the claims of "pagan love fest".  I didn't believe the
claims of thousands of people coming.  I don't think anyone did.  But 
people did see that it had potential.  Wicked were solidly behind it.
The idea of a party way out in the desert is kinda cool anyways, we on
the list were thinking about it until we realized the logistics would 
just be a nightmare - and Pete's party out in the desert west of Salt 
Lake City was gorgeous.  And if we can make it a benefit for a culture
we might have a strong affinity towards, all the better.  So I will 
dispute any claim that the concept of I Magi Nation was fundamentally
flawed.  I won't dispute that the planning and execution could have 
been much better. If the American Natives had had THEIR house in order 
things would have been much smoother too.  

>Sorry, but promoters have got to be held responsible for their event! Good
>intentions don't mean shit when promises cannot be delivered.

Definitely agreed.  It will be a long time before I agree to go to something
wholly conceived by Richard Sun, unless it has the organizational power of 
the Gathering or similar well-trusted promoters behind it.

However, I will continue to support things I consider new and inventive,
because that's the only way our scene is going to dgrow in scope and stay
healthy.  The doomsayers can stay at home.

>Until the next three-ring-circus of confusion...and even MORE broken
>promises by money-scamming promoters....

If you think Richard is "money-scamming promoter" you are dead wrong.
It's slander as well as a lie.



Okay, SATURDAY night:

	My roommate Gregg was doing visuals for Aurgasm and he asked if
I could help shuttle some other people with decorations for the club.  I
said sure, figuring this would be my only chance of getting in to see the
club anyways.  Now let me clear up any conflict-of-interest concerns you
might have since I recommended Aurgasm in the calendar.  Neither Gregg nor
I made or expected to make any money from this nor do we ever (well, I
won't since I can't ever help set up there again...anyways).  The club
was at 174 King because Mark had managed to work out a "I take door above
$x, you take bar" money deal, which didn't work last week as the club didn't
make over that $x... So after I put in a good 3 hours of effort in seeing
this thing come together, I get carded...

DETOUR

	I am 20 years old.  Hence, I can not be out past 2am in San Francisco,
according to the law.  Hence, most of my dancing activity is either illegal
or outside of San Francisco.  I refuse to get a fake ID however.  Why?  
Because doing so is giving into the powers that be, when I know in my heart
they are wrong.  If a club wants to be aggro about it, fine, I won't give them
any of my vibe, their loss.  It's very similar to draft-card burning in the
60's.  This is my form of silent protest.

BACK ON TRACK

So I get thrown out, a little more ceremoniously than last week in LA, but
thrown out nonetheless.  I felt bad because it really really looked gorgeous
inside, and Mark Farina was scheduled to play and had blown me away the time
before.  So I said hi to the SFRaves contigent outside the front waiting to
get in, and drove off in search of a phone to call the Wicked hotline to see
if the rumor of a renegade was coming true.

As for why Aurgasm was shut down - I think 174 King has been cursed, ever
since Wicked was busted there.  No matter HOW good the intentions of the 
promoters were (and in this case, they were VERY good) the club itself
was the biggest deterrent.  No club held there will ever again be recommended
by me.

So anyways, I found the phone, and the message was timestamped 11pm and said
they'd be setting up in the parking lot of CyberFest at "16th and 3rd".  I
drove over to Cindy's and we went in search of a "Penske rental truck". 
This was approximately 1am.  NO ONE except a few parked cars at 3rd and 16th.
We went towards the CyberFest site to have a look, much in the same way
one slows down around a traffic accident.  What I saw surprised me - it
actually looked like it had come together.  By all accounts this was going
to be a three ring circus, and they delivered on that promise.  The music
from the tents, particularly the bass, was bleeding into each other and well
past the fences... 

PHILOSOPHIZING TIME

I said in my recommendations for the weekend that I couldn't find a
good thing to say about CyberFest.  I was wrong.  I may have had
trouble finding a good reason to go to it over I Magi Nation, but
seeing the setup caused me to think a little.  I had talked to one of
the people doing visuals for CyberFest at Mission Rock the night
before, and when I made the comparison to Rave-a-Palooza, he said he
preferred to think of it along the lines of the Exotic Erotic Ball,
which for you non-SF people is a big ball held on Hallow'een for about
8,000 people, and by all accounts it's an... interesting event, lots
of fun.  And he said, would you rather have 8,000 people listening to
House music, good house music even... or Garth Brooks?  Not to
disparage Mr. Brooks, but his point was clear - if a certain # of
those who go to Cyberfest realize there is a whole world out there
they didn't know about, the House nation, and decide to give it a try,
and if a certain number of THOSE like what they see, and infuse new
energy into it, it can ONLY be a good thing.  Now it'll be interesting
to see if the scene can support and provide a good time for "newbies"
and not get smothered by them - if so then CyberFest will have a more
positive impact on the scene than any of us anticipated.  I mean,
think about what got you into "raving" - for me it was going to a
rather large party about 3 years ago.  Hell, they even had presale
tickets at Poobah's in Pasadena, and I thought it was gonna be a
concert like any other!  We can't afford to keep this to ourselves, to
exclude people simply because they haven't "got" it yet.  I think 
in time people will realize CyberFest isn't "what raves are all about" - 
if the scene were to become all of CyberFest size then it's time to 
worry.  

GNIZIHPOSOLIHP


So we drove around the CyberFest site looking for where Wicked were gonna
set up.  I realize that 1:30 was probably too early to expect anything, that
they'd more likely come around 3, but seeing as how the site their voice mail
said was the place was entirely unlikely, and that I had put so much energy 
into the evening already, we decided to call it a night.  Well, we went
grocery shopping actually, which was much more fun than raving could have
ever been :)

The concept of setting up in the parking lot of Cyberfest is... on the surface
a very cool idea, but I don't like the "point" it implies.  Look, promoter
infighting will kill the scene faster than any amount of speed or DJ worship
will.  Doing something which can be construed as upstaging is in bad taste...
I expect more from a high class operation like Wicked.  This is gang-like.
If Cool World were to take this event personally, which they shouldn't but
who knows, they could easily turn around and call the cops on every Full Moon
party each month.  This scene is too fragile for that kind of self-destructive
behavoir.

Maureen, I don't think there's any significance in CyberFest being the 
only party not getting busted - this was just a sweekend of collossal bad
karma for the scene in general.  Maybe everyone should have swallowed 
their pride and just gone to Cyberfest, braved the dust, and showed the
new recruits what we're REALLY about....

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 05:54:42 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 13:01:59 BST
Subject: Re: Once in a blue moon


  Synthia> Humm, according to my calendar, it's September.

Hmm, have you got an English or European calendar...?

According to my diary, the full moon is at 0233 UTC on 1 Sep 93.

Which means that UK summer time (+0100) it's at 0333, but on the West
Coast (-0700) it's 1933 on 31 Aug 93, and on the East Coast (-0400)
it's 2233 on 31 Aug 93....

So the blue moon is August in America, but September in Europe...


	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 06:22:04 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 13:19:36 BST
Subject: Re: Bored and Wanna Make Bubbles??


Hmm, at the Ozrics gig i went to at the Kilburn National, they had a
couple of bubble machines, above the stage.  The looked much like fog
machines, but made bubbles instead of fog.  I thought it was pretty
cool...  Never seen them before or since though...


	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 06:28:36 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 13:28:30 BST
Subject: Re: Laser ?


  Entropy> Driving in redwood city I saw this place half being built
  Entropy> that had a sign that said " A ton of Fun With A Laser Gun " and opneing soon.
  Entropy> Anyone know ? Is this a VR arcade ?
  Entropy> 			- Delchi


Sounds like laser tag to me.... you have a gun and a backpack, which
have sensors on them, and your gun fires a light beem which caries a
coded signal.  Typically you wonder around in a darkened room with
various walls and obstacles.  The system I've seen (manufactured by
Quasar) you have two teams, and the object is to shoot people on the
other team, and ultimately to take their base.  You gain points for
hitting someone on an opposing team, and loses point for hitting
someone on your own team.

A computer in your gun keeps track of who shot you, and at the end of
the game (say 15mins), you download this data into a central computer
which then calculates scoresheets.

Despite the violent premise of the game (ie killing people) it's more
fun than it sounds...


	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 07:32:47 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 6:39:08 PDT
Subject: Face ID 


I'm verbally challenged, I guess ...

 Will Auburn's boyfriend please email me? You were so kind to let me sleep
on your couch after Aurgasm , and the yogurt drink was good too. 

 I got your name wrong in my original Aurgasm Interruptus posting , and
now I can't come up with a name that I have confidence in. (Pat?). I
have this trouble with most people - I think it's stunted my social
life :-( . 

 Faces I usually recognize - I guess I'm more visual than verbal.

					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com


-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 09:15:56 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 08:16:45 PDT
Subject: Re: sunday report


Bob Jesse reports:  
> had what might be the limit case of a micro-rave. 

More like a nano-rave ;-)  It would seem that this was the
best event of the weekend.  Excellent music, location, price -
and obviously, a great Vibe!

- leg of eel


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 10:49:21 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:46:07 PDT
Subject: Bored and Wanna Make Bubbles??

>Hmm, at the Ozrics gig i went to at the Kilburn National, they had a
>couple of bubble machines, above the stage.  The looked much like fog
>machines, but made bubbles instead of fog.  I thought it was pretty
>cool...  Never seen them before or since though...

the bubbles that these things produce are really oily and sticky.
very unpleasant if they get on you.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 10:50:52 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:33:24 PDT
Subject: Re: Once in a blue moon


> From techno.Stanford.EDU!SFRaves-request@cdp.igc.org Mon Jul 19 06:13:09 1993
> Return-Path: <techno.Stanford.EDU!SFRaves-request@cdp.igc.org>
> From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 13:01:59 BST
> To: sap@lucid.com
> Cc: winston@lurnix.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: Once in a blue moon
> Content-Length: 424
> X-Lines: 15
> Status: RO
> 
> 
>   Synthia> Humm, according to my calendar, it's September.
> 
> Hmm, have you got an English or European calendar...?
> 
> According to my diary, the full moon is at 0233 UTC on 1 Sep 93.
> 
> Which means that UK summer time (+0100) it's at 0333, but on the West
> Coast (-0700) it's 1933 on 31 Aug 93, and on the East Coast (-0400)
> it's 2233 on 31 Aug 93....
> 
> So the blue moon is August in America, but September in Europe...
> 
> 
> 	Cosmic
> 

It's a time zone thing!! If you look at the GMT time (astronomical time)
it means the blue moon is indeed in August in America and in September
in europe!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 11:04:07 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:17:30 PDT
Subject: Re: sunday report

> had what might be the limit case of a micro-rave.  two things to report from  
> this happy experience:
> 
> first, i really like the Garth CD (No Rest for the Wicked), which provided  
> about half the entertainment this afternoon.  sometimes garth spins sets less  
> to my taste - "housey" (divas on top of monotonous beats).  not this set -  
> it's quite varied, skillfully mixed, and well engineered (sounds notably  
> better than most mix tapes).  i hope Luv Phasers Productions keeps the  
> momentum up.

I just saw this CD this weekend, I cracked up when I saw Luv Phaser Productions
on the back!  Maybe they/we should design a T-Shirt.


> 
> second, i noticed the room was getting a little warm and started to take my  
> shirt off.  with nobody else around to be weirded out or judge, the rest of  
> the clothes came off too.  wow - what a wonderful feeling to move around  
> unencumbered by even the loosest, lightest, "most comfortable" clothing.

That is why I like to wear exercise clothes,  I don't like my movements fettered
I feel a little too fat to go shirtless or I mostlikely would :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 11:17:51 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 10:48:58 -0700
Subject: Re:  Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

I generally agree with Brian's comments except I'm not as concerned
about Wicked doing a renegade near Cyberfest (I would have headed
for the beach if possible, but  oh well . . .)  Cool World, after
all, are the crew that shoved everyone out of the way to put their
event on.  And while quite a few people may have gotten access for
the first time to the scene in a good way, all I can possibly say
to those folks is, "It all gets better from here."  

Nothing is totally bad, it's true -- and give Cool World credit for
actually pulling off this overhyped underextravaganza, a good many
if not all the name DJs they promised were there.  But let's face
it, this was a badly run commercial venture.  It would not have
taken very much to provide the extras needed to show better intentions
from the promoters.  For example, the place was trashed out immediately
because the promoters provided no trash cans, much less recycling.
Well, enough on this.  Cyberfest is only a lame memory now.  It's
time to move to the future and, as Carlos was telling someone before
his set on Saturday night, "It's important to be *positive*!"

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 12:47:40 1993
From: giamma@oas.olivetti.com (Gianmaria Clerici)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 11:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Music under the stars


It's not rave-related but it's definely worth to check out.
We can have a SFR meeting and then go to YSH later.
Anybody interested ?

*******************************************************************************

                  Computer Music Concert at Stanford University

Stanford University's Doreen B. Townsend Center for Computer Research in Music  
and Acoustics (CCRMA) will present an outdoor concert of new music at 8:15 p.m.  
Thursday, July 22, in Stanford's Frost Amphitheater.  Gates open at 7:00 p.m.  
for those who want to arrive early to picnic.

The program will feature an interactive composition for MIDI and saxophone, a  
work for Mathews Radio Baton with four cellists, and computer-generated pieces  
in quadraphonic sound. Composers include Daniel Oppenheim, Fernando Lopez-  
Lezcano, Ludger Bruemmer, Stephane Roy, David Jaffe, and David Soley.

Tickets are $7 general admission and $4 students.  They are available at  
Tresidder Ticket Office, (415) 723-4317, and at the gate. Concertgoers are  
invited to bring a picnic, and are encouraged to dress warmly and bring a  
blanket to sit on.  For more information, call the Music Department at (415)  
723-3811.

(From hiway 101, take Embarcadero Rd. exit west, cross El Camino Real (where  
Embarcadero becomes Galvez St.) , and continue on to Frost Amphitheater at the  
corner of Campus Drive and Galvez St.)

*******************************************************************************

					Gianmaria

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 12:56:57 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 12:32:23 -0700
Subject: Re:  Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

>you did nothing but give us doomsday prphecies

jesus, brian.  all i did was call a spade a spade, which to me is quite
positive.....FOR I BELIEVE W/ ALL MY SPIRIT THAT THERE MUST BE SYNERGY
BETWEEN NATIVE CULTURE & TECHNO FUTURE CIVILIZATION.

  1st, naivete is no excuse for exploitation.  that richard wishes well is
not the point.  the quality of phone talks for several hours between richard
& i underscore that.

  2nd, there is a long tradition of hippy & new age events raising
explosions within the indian community for 30 years.  they just don't want
to hear about instant vision quests....anybody who really understood their
tradition would know that.  but most indians encourage thwe growth of rave
like events as positive for changing western culture.  but u can't be
instant initiates.

>indians shoukld get their own house in order.

indian houses are in at least as good order as rave promoters' houses.
that a promoter would assume some nebulous deal w/ a member of a 'tribal
council'...literally, 1 or 2 members in thjis case, equals agreement with
the majority of traditional people is *unbelievably naive.*  many tribal
councils were established by us gov solely to divide the people.  its
traditional people who are most afraid of cultural exploitation, but who if
approached sensitivly are most accepting of healthy directions of american
culture.

richard kept talking about this being the revival of wovoka's ghost dance.
after you've had your people machine gunned for dancing, you too might
undertstand native people's anger over claims like thjis.

as far as personal doubts at the lack of positivity in my life, anyone who
knows my lifelong commitments knows there need be no justification of
motives on my part.

does the insight & new-found liberation coming from trance, empathogens &
dancing negate any previous cultural transformations?

continued peace,
a-10

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 13:26:31 1993
From: menchett@cs.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 12:00:47 PDT
Subject: Custom stickers available


Custom-made vinyl bumper stickers and labels

I silkscreen vinyl stickers. They have a variety of uses, great for:

	-shamelessly plastering the town, plugging your next rave
	-bands
	-record labels
	-political campaigns
	-businesses
	-product labels
	-clubs
	-general promotion

I can put most any design on a high quality, weatherproof 
vinyl sticker. For details on prices, available colors, and
general information, email menchett@cs.unr.edu.

If you know someone who would be interested, please
contact me so that I can get in touch with them.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 14:20:06 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 12:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: hello

> 
> PARTYON...SUSIE(: says:
> 
> 
> p.s. if you would like to go to dinner with mykl and i on tuesday night email h
> im....( i guess) and does anyone have a good suggestion of a cool place to go??
> ? wheee...
> 
Knowing Susie, it either has to be Thai food or a place with potstickers
and lots of vinegar.:)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 14:23:27 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 12:28:12 PDT
Subject: Re:  I MAGI NATION


I would venture to guess because of the network the fundamentalists have,
word will spread about the 'pagan' dances and they will attack again.  WE,
need to be ready for them.  Truly underground parties are just that,
underground, difficult for us to find, let alone fundamentalists. All the
other parties must be 'prepared' IMHO to legally stand our ground, which
brings up another topic.  The House Movement Cookbook...
----------

why not set a legal trap for them? (christian fundo's)  they shouldn't
be legally *able* to shut you down over the use of the term "pagan".
this country has a constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion, it
was 1 of the main reason the damn country was founded in the first
#@&%$#*%&'ing place....then, when they shut you down, you sue their
britches out from under them for denying your constitutional rights
and for depriving you of the business you would have been doing.

fight fire with gasoline, you know?

*



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 14:29:00 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 13:11:00 PDT
Subject: Re: big party philosophy, and more

 
Brian makes some good points about how we should all try to bring our
positive vibe to questionable events, how attendees are also responsible
for the final outcome of these things, how depending on the promoters
to deliver what they promise is naive, etc.  The more idealistic side
of my psyche is in agreement with this.  The pragmatic side of my psyche
is developing an ulcer.

> Maybe everyone should have swallowed 
> their pride and just gone to Cyberfest, braved the dust, and showed the
> new recruits what we're REALLY about....

I think I have to agree with John S. Lee that we probably shouldn't
give our money to promoters whose main goal is to exploit people
for money.  What's even worse is that this exploitation, (or in the
case of IMagiNation, carelessness, where carelessness == lack of caring)
is being done in the full view of those who would like to see the entire
scene squashed.  In today's Chronicle, there's a large article panning 
Cyberfest on page 1 of the datebook section.  Besides reporting on the
event as a complete ripoff, there was reference to Cool World Productions 
as "unlisted", and to the general elusiveness of the promoters.  Y'know,
there's a lot of money changing hands in this scene with no accountablity 
to anyone.  Big events are going to bring attention to this fact, 
especially the ones where making money is the *main* goal, and the smell
of scam is in the air.  Consumer fraud?  Maybe.  Tax evasion?  Definately.  
Hello local DA, hello IRS/FBI.  It would be a very big bummer if some
day a party ended with the words "Excuse me Mr. Garth, you're under arrest, 
you see, there's this licensing problem with these CDs of yours..."

So am I talking out of my bunghole or what?  Is the house scene,
from an economic point of view, one huge black market?  Or is it
one little black market that will be left alone as long as it remains
little? 

Anyway/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Fortunately, the last few days did not represent a typical weekend 
in the life of our local House Nation.  We shot off a few of our
own toes, but they'll probably grow back.  We generated some (deserved?) 
negative vibe from Native Americans, Christain Fundamentalists,
and the local press, but the near future is still looking bright.  I
am encouraged by the relatively low key and honest promotion of Unity, 
which will again be at the Richmond Civic Center (so I hear).  I've
also heard that ComeUnity will be back soon, *with* Malachy's involvement,
which would be Beyond Incredible if true.  Also, a new Sat. nite weekly
called Fridge (I think) will be at the basement of Big Heart City
with the Together crew (Simon, Jeno, others) starting 8/7.  It looks 
like the positive vibe should have little trouble getting back on course.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 15:28:24 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 13:54:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

"but I was quite surprised at the gullibility level of some sfravers"

Anytime we (collectively) go to (support) a party, we are putting our trust
in strangers.  This does not necessarily mean any of us are gullible.  I
certainly do not 'buy' the excuses I have heard from Richard Sun's answering
machine. It is easy to shift the blame, a true warrior admits and owns
mistakes or ignorance.  So where do we go from here?

How about only supporting promoters who are present and accountable, before
during and after parties?  See today's SF Chronicle.  It didn't take an
experienced raver to accurately review Cyberfest.  (on a personal note, Ican
only pray that the cool world people's rip-off event does not tarnish the
Universe event in September...the real thing) Anway....lessons learned,
information and knowledge given (on how tribal councils work, thanks
Randy...) onwards....  --Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 15:47:55 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 14:02:25 PDT
Subject: Jazid Up


One for tonight that didn't make it onto the calendar...

Monday, July 19th - Jazid Up w/Mark Farina and Is
        9pm-3am, 278 11th at Folsom.  415.979.5880, 21+, $2


Supposedly Wicked was supposed to move to Charter Oak after
they got busted outside of Cyberfest; I didn't realize 
Charter Oak was still an option, since there hasn't seemed
to be anything there for several months.  

Apparently it isn't, because although the equipment truck
was there, along with Jeno, it sat there for a while and
after a half an hour or so I think they finally gave up,
and the rumor was that they would try to do something the
next night (Sunday).  

I called the Wicked line last night and I guess they
had done an afternoon/evening party at Grey Whale Cove
(site of an early FMR), did anyone go to that?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 15:58:47 1993
From: eric@nit.pactel.com (Eric Pederson)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 14:26:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: big party philosophy, and more

Lee Fogel writes...
> 
> In today's Chronicle, there's a large article panning 
> Cyberfest on page 1 of the datebook section.  

I thought this was pretty interesting.  Are rave reviews now a 
regular feature in the Chron?  I can just see the little man
getting out of his chair (bean bag?) and boogying every monday morning,
or in the case of cyberfest, just an empty bean bag.
-- 
Eric Pederson                                        PacTel Corporation
eric@nit.pactel.com                                        510-210-8890

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 16:05:30 1993
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993   14:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

In-Reply-To: rmt@well.sf.ca.us -- 07/18/93 19:24

let me make explicit what i think randy is saying - maybe you all
know this, but just in case not . it seems that the promoters
 wanted to use the name and place of the nateive people with out
their assent and support. the native people in turn just sent some
negative vibes and disrupted up the whole thing. i mean, you all
know how it feels when the vibe is disrupted at a rave, don't u ?
well, this was not different, maybe jsut on a bigger scale. but
 we are just learning about these things. and i think the fact
that the rave did not have is NOT just bad planing.
take care/shalom/rave on/respect the vibe
ovid

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 16:11:38 1993
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993   14:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Aarrghhh(asm)!

In-Reply-To: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu -- 07/19/93 02:50

hi gregg!
sorry for my misunderstanding. did not realize the owners pulled the
plug on you folx!
i hope this can some together in some other place, 'coz i really like
the vibe and the concept.
take care/shalom/rave on
ovid

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 16:12:37 1993
From: Chris Concepcion <audran@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 14:36:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: hello



On Mon, 19 Jul 1993, Sea Of Sin wrote:

> > 
> > PARTYON...SUSIE(: says:
> > 
> > 
> > p.s. if you would like to go to dinner with mykl and i on tuesday night email h
> > im....( i guess) and does anyone have a good suggestion of a cool place to go??
> > ? wheee...
> > 
> Knowing Susie, it either has to be Thai food or a place with potstickers
> and lots of vinegar.:)

	There be a really good Thai place over in Berkeley called Cha'am. 
It's on ... uh ... Shattuck?  Y'know ... that main street that runs parallel
with and to the west of Telegraph?  Argh, ah welp, it's on the east side
of Shattuck, a bunch of blox past Durant, so that's probably real close
to the UC, and up a flight of stairs.  Really cool enclosed terrace
like dining atmosphere.  But y'all up in Berkeley probably knew of this
restaurant already.  Just thought of informing...I'll stop babbling now ;)

Audran
btw, nice to meet y'all, anyone need a roommate in SF or berkeley?



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 16:20:44 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 14:26:53 PDT
Subject: Weekend report:Dangerous Visions

	I have to get this out and don't have time to spell check
	so excuse the typos... just take it for what
	it's worth....


			-G





Well, I will try to not make this a gloom and doom report but after
the events of this weekend, It will take some really good event (ravey or
otherwise) for me to believe that the Scene as we have come to know and
love it, is not truely comming to and end.  (I do think it can be save however)

There seemed to be some sort of bad chaotic energy about, sort of like anti-vibe
which would get attracted to the vibe, wherever it may be found, attach itself
to it, and nutralize it.

I knew the warning signs with this event coming up.  I know Richard Sunn
personally and know his intentionas are pure, he is coming from a very
spiritual place but, as I have said in previous post, that is not enough.
Much evil in the world is caused by people who think their intentions are
good, just, and have the rubber stamp of God.  Richard, in his zeal to save the
House Nation (from itself?) and to form bridges between some of the Stewards
of this part of the planet and the House Movement at large, forgot to see the
forest for the trees,  in this fiasco, many of us suffered from something that
is at the heart of many of the worlds problems... objectification, and
stereotyping.  These things are at the heart of racism and bigotry, but can function in people who believe themselves to be devoid of these social evils,
(my belief is that racism, bigotry are viruses that we ALL carry, it is part
of the fabric that make up our society, house music is PART of the cure, but
I digress).  It shows up as fear of the "Oaktown Homies" but also shows up
as thinking that all native americans share the same spiritual traditions or
that all african americans are good dancers, or that all white males want to
control and rule the world.  What I have discovered is that each group of
people, be there "Hommies" or "Rednecks" have people who will respond to
goodness and respect and people who are in some form of pain of disease that
makes them incapable of these actions, there is a Hitler and a Mother Theresa
in each and every one of us and the sooner we come to grips with that, the
better.
It didn't take much for Richard to be aware of the situation, he was walking
into.  A none raver friend of mine, who is only slightly on the perimeter
of the issues surrounding the Indigenous Peoples political situation in 
California, when I told him of the plan, warned me to be careful because some
of the tribal councils are corrupt and some of the leaders of tribal councils
are corrupt or simply mouth pieces for the U.S. Government, he said that
unless we were careful, none of the money raised would ever make it to the
indians,  he turned out hitting the Nail right on its proverbial Head.  
In short we need to start seeing more people from different cultures as
PEOPLE first, people with the same makeup of good and bad as the people in our own families, Sure Saddam Husain lives in Iraq but I bet there are more
people like Brian B or Larry C who live there than people like Saddam, anyway...
Through the whole weekend, this theme keeps coming up.  In every aspect, the things that were lacking are,communication, tolerence, knowledge, understanding and maybe some compassion.

I spent the weekend with the Wicked posse,  getting everything organized for the
big expedition North.  We packed a LARGE suond system consisting of 
8 Community 60B's and 8 Community 880 tops, appropriate amplification,
a bunch of food and other camping gear.  The target departure time was Noon,
we rolled out of SF at 6:30 :) with a 22' yellow penske truck and a van full
of personnel.  Others went in seperate cars.  The Truck was to make a 
detour to the east bay to get a sizable generator, I was to drive the van North
to get a reasonable site to make camp, the truck would follow allong and
we would all rendezvous at the Ski resort.  About 10 miles rom Sacto on I-80
we see this big digital sign that reads CONCERT AT POW WOW CANCELED.. shit
we pull over for a bathroom break and to contemplate what to do, some folks
say Oh that's not refering to our thing! (get real :), we try to "phone home"
but everyone is "out" with no real info on any of the event hotlines,
It's 9:30 and we decide that the people driving the truck would not be daunted
by such omens and would press on as should we, (1 st mistake, the truck got the
message that the concert was cancelled right as they were leaving berkeley
and never left the bay area :) We continued to the sight, driving up into
the mountains and arriving at about 11:30, ther were a few other cars at 
Pow Wow which seems to be some sort rural club.  The big action though we seemed
to have missed, including the thousands of people that were there earlier in the
day and the police insistance that NO event was going to take place.  The
owner of POW WOW was really nice and told me the whole scoop.  The story she
told was not to far out so since she lives up there I tend to believe her...
Apparently ravers are not the pnly ones who can network, so can christian
fundementalist groups, the Nevada groups called the californian contingent
and informed then that the Pagan/drug addict/satanist were planning their party
over there!  They californians made such a racket and, with law enforcement
on their side, succeded in stopping any party form going on.  She said
that a couple of thousand people had shown up during the day nad that the
local police were getting really pissed,  she was gracious enough to let
us camp on her land and told us of some warehouse party that was suppose to
happen, (the police stopped that as well), by this time the temperature at
6500 ft above sea level was about 38 deg. and since all of our camping equipment
was in the truck, we decided to wait for the truck to arrive and then maybe we
would risk a renegade in some forest or something, after about 2 am we
figured out that the truck mostlikely was not coming. We all crowded into the
Van and dozed as best we could for a couple hours, periodically starting
the car for heat.  Eventually we decided to go home, Jeno's partner, Eve
took the wheel and, much to my surprise (my own internal sexism), drove
masterfully along these country roads (MUCH better than I could have).  I fell
asleep only to awake as we were heading down I-80 passing richmond, almost home!
She had driven the Whole distance without stopping for the
bathroom or anything!  (all of the guys who were driving, including yours
truly, had to stop for various reasons, mostly because driving a large van
with a bunch o people feels like piloting an oil tanker, (I have a CRX...
big difference) any way my hat goes off to Eve for being a real trooper.
She dropped me at my car, I transfered my stuff and started off to look for
breakfast (6:30 am, 12 hours later) I stopped at spaghetti western on haight
but parked a little bit away (2nd mistake)after breakfast coming back to
discover that my car had been relieved of most of it's contents!
(This was a surprise and a total bummer!, but bbring resourcefull and growing
up in a neighborhood MUCH WORSE that the lower Haight, I knew the deal, someone
hanging around would know something, I just had to find out who, and whether I could trust them (there is honor amoung theives and even drug addicts), I also
know that the stuff would eventually wind up at a "fence" (a person who buys
stolen goods or exchanges them for drugs) the walkman and radio were as good as
gone but the clothes might still be around, being so early in the morning and
my "unique" size,  I found one of my coolers in a hall way
with it contents (humm guess crackheads don't like raw corn and soymilk :)
I eventualy ran into a small time "pimp" who got 95% of my clothes back
(including my two backpacks for $60) not the best deal but I'd rather have
my clothes.  I don't recomment that any of you try this type of negotiations
unless you really know how to read people and this sub-culture, I used
to do coke (years ago!) and came in contact with this element alot, it is
a damgerous liason to say the least.

Anyway I had had enough excitement for the day and headed for home, spent
saturday resting and recupperating and getting ready for Saturday night's 
festivities. (Have sound system, will travel!).  It was decided about
9 pm that we would do a renegade in the Cyberfest parking lot, sort of as
a statement but also in fun.  It was interesting to note that Cyberfest
didn't have dance permits for under age dancing after 2 am but when you have
half of the off duty SFPD working security, I guess you don't need them :)
In any event staging a little harmless micro-rave in the parking lot of
an event that you were offered money to participate in might be considered a 
little cheeky but I don't think it is the same as calling the police on a 
fellow promoter, it might be more like Cool World throwing a renegade free
event the same night as the full moon (just what we need! more renegade free
events! ) After a biit of subterfuge at the entrance to the parking lot to get
the van in, Wicked opened up the rear door to expose a full yput together 
sound system, Jeno dropped some beats, and a crowd of about 100 gathered,
the fun was short lived as two plane clothes cops finally realized that this
was not sanction, and peoceded to shut it down, they did get to spin for about
30 minutes thouggh.  After this , everyone crashed for the night.

Sunday morning arrived and everyone was still jonesing for a serious groove
that had been denied us all weekend, we speculated on places that we could take
a sound system and set up, some said that we should just go camping, and a 
few of the posse did just that.  Still some of the trance addicts, myself`
included, needed to get their fix.  The Wicked organizer called up the manager
of Gray Whale Cove and asked could he bring a sound system there in the afternoon and play some amplified music for about 2 to 300 people, I only heard
one side of the conversation but as far as I can tell we were totally truthfull
in every regard, the manager said that the beack closes at sunset which
was around 9 pm and that we had to leave then.  So we loaded everything up and arrived at the beach by 4:30 :) we drove the 4wd van down to the beach and set up the equipment.  It was basically just the wicked posse, Simon (american simon) started off the set and did an impressive job at that!  It seemed like we
were finally going to get the much anticipated groove that we so badly needed.
After about 1 hour Jeno took over, some people were lying out a few other
people showed up, but mostly I was dancing and going into deep trance, it was
nice to have Jeno all to myself just about and it really heightened the
feeling that he "inside your head spinning just for you", I was not on any
psychoactives so the effect was even more uncanny.  The vibe was getting stronger and stronger, there were maybe 25 people on the beach at most,
eventually it starts to get dark, I begin to think well, maybe we need to think 
about leaving or at least talk to the manager, but everyone was deep into the
vibe and I'm sure they had lost track of the time.  Then a big 4WD truck pulls
down the access road, the manager gets out  (he's a big gurly guy, not as tall
as me but BIG) I try to talk to him since the organizers don't seem to be
around, he completely ignores me, walks over to one of the speaker cabinets and
pushes it to the ground! I'm in shock, I can smell this guy reaking of alcohol!
I see him go to the next cabinet and do the same, I'm shouting at him that we 
leaving, stop it! He ignores me, heads for the DJ table... I think, I can
physically intervene and stop this guy but that would be a MAJOR escalation,
he's drunk, this is his land, he probably is armed, and I'm an african-
american male, who are the police gonna believe? so he grabs the DJ table and
overturns it while Jeno is spinning, and stops...  He in perferct Jon Wayne
fashion says something like.. OK who wants some more trouble... I try to keep
some young male ravers from getting in his face, I know this is the manager,
they don't, they think he's some crazy fart.  Finally I say to him we would 
have left all you had to do was come and tell us, this was totally uncalled for,
all he said was that he "Hated a liar" and that if we didn't leave, he'd call
the police.  ( i keep thinking, was he mad because we were not out by 9 on the dot? This incident happened at 9:15, or was he mad because more people didn't
show, (he got $5 for each person who would use the beach, and EVERYONE paid)
Well, we packed up quickly, and with only two flashlights, (all of my
flashlights were stolen from my car, the day before :), got everything to the
top of the hill (Hwy 1), just as we get everything in and loaded, the
police arrive with lights on, (two crusiers)  Every one gets into the cars
and scattered, (I included).  We all made it home safe apparently.
but quite an adventure.  This brings up many questions for me
as far as the future directions of the scene and how we should go
about it. Broadcasting it and what we really want to accomplish.

To me, communication and consciousness is the key.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 17:14:16 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:58:52 -0700
Subject: Re:  I MAGI NATION

here here, well said we must come up with ways to fight such ignorance of 
other peoples rights. In response to their actions the producers of IMAGINATION
should do a rave called "Pagan". and really piss them off!!!!!

				Hoss "whistlboy".

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 17:30:40 1993
From: sap@lucid.com (Synthia Petroka)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 16:19:44 PDT
Subject: Once in a blue moon

Hi Roy,

I have a sailboat calendar.  It has pretty pictures but I wouldn't try to do
celestial navigation with it.  8^)

-Synthia

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 17:33:49 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 16:37:01 PDT
Subject: Re: big party philosophy, and more

Eric Pederson sez:
> 
> Lee Fogel writes...
> > 
> > In today's Chronicle, there's a large article panning 
> > Cyberfest on page 1 of the datebook section.  
> 
> I thought this was pretty interesting.  Are rave reviews now a 
> regular feature in the Chron?  I can just see the little man
> getting out of his chair (bean bag?) and boogying every monday morning,
> or in the case of cyberfest, just an empty bean bag.

Ha!  I love it.  It's not quite an accurate analogy, though, since the
man sleeping in the beanbag might just mean a great chill room :-) :-)

(To the non-SF posse: the Chronicle has movie reviews with a little
graphic of a man ranging from sleeping to jumping out of his chair,
depending on how good the movie is.  An empty chair means the movie
really sucked.)

-H-



-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
            "Unk!  Bull manganee" - Tarzan, lord of the jungle
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 19:12:58 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:34:59 PDT
Subject: Re:  I MAGI NATION

Hoss hollers:
> here here, well said we must come up with ways to fight such ignorance of 
> other peoples rights. In response to their actions the producers of 
>IMAGINATION should do a rave called "Pagan". and really piss them off!!!!!

What we must do is kill them, hunt them down and kill every single last 
one of them, tear down their churches, burn all the bibles - total 
obliteration.  

But seriously, I think we're already pretty skilled at pissing people
off.  Doesn't seem to be doing us much good.

- leg of eel 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 19:46:39 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:26:10 PDT
Subject: Re: hello

Ya, Cha'am is on Shattuck (cross street - Cedar) and is pretty good but there
are a couple others I like better.  Your Place Thai cuisine on University 
(cross street - Bonar(?) and Plearn on University (by U.C. Theater).  And yes
I do need a roomate in Berkeley if this person comming on Wednesday doesn't
work out.  E mail me if anyone wants more info.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 19:49:30 1993
From: rpcaras@srv.pacbell.com (Bob Carasik)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:01:32 PDT
Subject: Back Issues of Rave Insider are Now AvailablE



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/********************************************************************/

		From the burning tailpipe of AstroBoy

     virtualdigitalsexualvirtualdigitalsexualvirtualdigitalsexual
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From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 19:54:52 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 18:43:26 -0700
Subject: Re: big party philosophy, and more

And to add to Lee's comments, we also have YSH -- which shows you
*can* get a new positive thing started and grow it strong and fast,
the ongoing adventures of Tilt-a-Whirl, the continued excellence of
Boogie Buffet, nice small ones like Mission Rock . . . and we've
got some good events coming up in the next few weeks including  in
addition to Unity, another Get Down/Get Wicked (unfortunately I'll
miss that one due to the Grateful Dead shows in Eugene), Penelope's
and who knows what else, with the promise of a real Universe out
there to show how to do the big ones right.

It's never much fun to hit a stall after rising rapidly for a while.
But what this time is teaching us -- yet again -- is the importance
of intention and attention on the part of organizers, DJs and party-
attenders alike.  And we know a lot more now about the right kind of
places and folks to do this with, without ruling out almost anyone's
effort because you never can predict where the magic will show up.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 19:55:41 1993
From: "Tim Hyland" <THYLAND@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:17:02 PDT
Subject: Fwd: Long partially-rave-related article 


--Boundary-3548932-0-0

I just got this article forwarded to me, and although it's not  
totally rave-related, it's way funny and talks about rave-gear  
and the side effects of E on a Ken doll.  Hee hee! 
 
Share and enjoy, 
 
Tim  



--Boundary-3548932-0-0
X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822

Received: 16 Jul 1993 20:24:49                    Sent: 16 Jul 1993 19:22:10
From:"Ronald Hayden " <rhayden@us.oracle.com>
To: OLambda@us.oracle.com
Subject: Ken & Ken?
Reply-to: rhayden@us.oracle.com


A COOLER, QUEERER, KEN 
  
By Don Savage 
  
Reprinted without permission from NUCITY of 18 June thru 1 July '93 
  
      "We're not in the business of putting cock rings into the 
hands of little girls." - Lisa McKendall, Manager of Marketing and 
Communications, Mattel Toys. 
  
      Mattel's new Ken doll is on the market.  New Ken is getting 
almost as much press as New Coke did.  Since his introduction at a 
toy convention in New York City in February, Ken's been everywhere, 
including the front page of the New York Times Arts and Leisure 
section.  Why the hoopla? Ken's first piercing (his left ear) and 
his two-tone "greased lightning" hairdo. 
  
      But an important part of Earring Magic Ken's new wardrobe has 
been overlooked by the straight media - Ken's cock ring.  Hanging 
around Ken's neck, on a metallic silver thread, is what ten out of 
ten fags at a glance will tell you is a cock ring. 
  
      Mattel Toys, in the person of Lisa McKendall, denies the ring 
around Ken's neck is a cock ring.  "Absolutely not," she said. 
"It's a necklace.  It holds charms he can share with Barbie. 
C'mon, this is a doll designed for little girls; something like 
that would be entirely inappropriate." Okay, Lisa, let's call it a 
necklace.  Queers have been wearing cock rings as necklaces for 
years. 
  
      When they're not fashion statements, cock rings are worn 
around the base of your cock, or your close-personal-friend's cock 
if you don't have one of your own.  Slip one on when you're soft; 
once you're hard, it traps blood in the penis, increasing sensation 
and prolonging orgasm.  From a utilitarian point of view, that's an 
absolute good, a win-win scenario. 
  
      Chrome cock rings, like Ken's, were long worn by the leather 
crowd on the shoulders of their biker jackets (left for top, right 
for bottom). In the waning years of our long national nightmare 
(aka the Reagan-Bush years), younger gay-boy-activist-types with 
brand-new leather jackets took to wearing cock rings on whichever 
side looked best or, to the horror of the leather crowd, on both 
sides.  Tops? Bottoms? Versatile? Clueless? Who knew? Then newly 
minted sex-positive dykes started wearing them - cocks or not, they 
didn't want to miss out on any of the sex-positive accessorizing. 
  
      Cock rings exploded (ouch!) - as vest zipper pulls, as key 
rings, as bracelets; rubber ones, leather ones, chain mail.  But 
the thick chrome variety, the Classic Coke of cock rings, was and 
is most often worn as a necklace.  Chrome cock ring necklaces 
became de rigueur rave wear.  For about a year, every gay boy at a 
rave was wearing at least one - these cock rings were often pressed 
into service later in the evening, to help totally tweaked raver 
keep up what the X was pulling down. 
  
      On closer inspection, Ken's entire "Earring Magic" outfit 
looks like three-year-old rave wear.  A Gaultier purple 
faux-leather vest, a straight-out-of-International-Male purple mesh 
shirt, black jeans and shoes. It would seem Mattel's crack Ken 
redesign team spent a weekend in LA or New York, dashing from rave 
to rave, taking notes and polaroids. 
  
      Ken's redesign was prompted by the advice of little girls who 
play with him. "two years ago we did a survey," Lisa McKendall 
said.  "We asked girls if Barbie should get a new boyfriend or 
stick with Ken.  They wanted her to stay with Ken, but wanted Ken 
to look a little cooler." And what's cool in the USA right now? 
What's hip? Queers are. 
  
      Turn on MTV and watch the seven-foot-tall drag queen (we're 
all praying she isn't a one-hit wonder) strut her fine stuff for 
the heartland. Lesbian comics on Arsenio (how far he's come! - 
thank you, Queer Nation).  Gay and Lesbian activists in the Oval 
Office chatting with the president.  A live feed of the Queer March 
on Washington running on C-Span. 
  
      Suddenly, it's hip to be queer.  The little girls of our great 
nation wanted a hipper Ken, and Mattel gave them a hip Ken.  A 
queer Ken. 
  
      "Ken and Barbie both reflect mainstream society, reflect what 
little girls see in their world," said my pal Lisa, who was getting 
awfully testy about my line of questioning.  "what they see their 
dads, brothers, and uncles wearing, they want Ken to wear. 
  
      As nice as Lisa is (which isn't very), I'm not sure I buy her 
line of reasoning.  How many dads out there are running around with 
cock rings dangling from chains around their necks? How many mesh 
shirts does International Male sell to the James and Wards of our 
great nation? What the little girls were seeing, and telling Mattel 
was cool, wasn't what their relations were wearing -unless they had 
hip-queer relatives -but the homoerotic fashions and imagery they 
were seeing on MTV, what they saw Madonna's dancers wearing in her 
concerts and films and, as it happens, what ACT UP/Queer Nation 
fags and dykes were wearing to demos and raves. 
  
      When you've made it into the aisles of Toys `R' Us, your 
moment has arrived - 
remember the sudden appearance of African-American Barbie-style 
dolls after the full impact of their civil rights movement began to 
be felt? Queer Ken is the high-water mark of, depending on your 
point of view, either queer infiltration into popular culture or 
the thoughtless appropriation of queer culture by heterosexuals. 
Lisa seemed genuinely unaware of the origins of Ken's "necklace" - 
and it's highly doubtful that Mattel's design teams were lurking at 
queer raves. Queer imagery has so permeated our culture that from 
rock stars (Axl Rose and his leather chaps) to toy designers, 
mainstream America isn't even aware when it's adopting queer 
fashions and mores.  Or when they're putting cock rings, even 
little plastic ones, into the hands of little girls. 
  
      Earring Magic Ken is available at Toys"R"Us stores in the 
'burbs.  He's made in China, costs $10.99 and comes with a set of 
people-sized earrings you can wear around the house or out to the 
bars.  While Ken now has a cock ring, he still doesn't have a cock. 
  
      "Traditionally, Ken doesn't sell as well as Barbie.  Ken's a 
girl's toy..." said Lisa.  Mattel may be surprised how well Cock 
Ring Magic Ken sells - queers are snapping up the new Ken.  I got 
mine. 
  
  
  
  




--Boundary-3548932-0-0--

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 20:02:18 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:25:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

>John S Lee continues:
>
>>The FACT is that little IMAGI-stunt is one of the many reasons people are
>>staying home these days.  Promoters promise the world, deliver crap.  The
>>FACT is if the homework was done ahead of time alot of BS coulda been
>>avioded.  But as usual things got fucked up....FAST!  
>
>This is true only if you are the type that think, "well, hell I'm paying
>$20 I want a show!" - you're not renting a movie!  If you think the 
>promoters' gonna take care of all your whims and BE the party for you then
>your head isn't on very straight.  I mean, think about what has made the
>best parties you've been to great, and most often it has to do either with
>the people who go or sheer luck.  Especially with something like what I
>Magi Nation could have been, the shared burden of getting to the site (or
>the backup site) would have brought the people together and made the party
>before it even began.  The full moons are like this at their best.  The
>two Connections were like this.  I think that berating promoters for not
>"delivering" is the gullible and naive stance, not the other way around.
>

No I'm not renting a movie.  I'm traveling many miles to get to an event
that I thought was gonna happen.  While we've been hearing good cheer from
many here on the list there are just as many who did not get the word and
did all that traveling for nothing.  This is not right.  I think that
holding promoters responsible for their event is what needs to be done,
instead of being apologetic about their plights.  This is not to say that
some promoters do not deserve the benefit of the doubt.  I just didn't
wanna give it to this fiasco held on Native American land, wasn't right. 
My doubt was correctly placed.  As for berating promoters, they should be
when they screw up.  And they should be applauded for holding killer
events.  If the heart was in the right place then kudos for the effort.  I
do know that there was more than R.Sun involved with this event...


>If the American Natives had had THEIR house in order 
>things would have been much smoother too.  
>

First of all you are dancing on THEIR land.  It is you and others that are
asking permission to have your festival of whatever on thier grounds. 
Don't try to turn the tables and make it seems as though THEY are the ones
who are irresponsible.  This sounds all too familiar to me, so before I get
emotional I will leave it at that.

>However, I will continue to support things I consider new and inventive,
>because that's the only way our scene is going to dgrow in scope and stay
>healthy.  The doomsayers can stay at home.
>

Good!  I agree with you on this point.  I am not actually a doomsayer, just
a self-appointed prophet.  And I do hold that title with the greatest
respect and regard ;)


Then I said:
>>Until the next three-ring-circus of confusion...and even MORE broken
>>promises by money-scamming promoters....
>
BB replies:
>If you think Richard is "money-scamming promoter" you are dead wrong.
>It's slander as well as a lie.
>
I didn't say that about Richard specifically.  Cool World is just as bad. 
How much of what they promised did they deliver.  Sometimes it is a money
thang...there is little denying that it pervades this scene.  And many
promoters are guilty of the scammming.  I just think that alot of bad karma
has to do with greed.  This weekend is PROOF POSITIVE of that!


BB then says:
>The club
>was at 174 King because Mark had managed to work out a "I take door above
>$x, you take bar" money deal, which didn't work last week as the club didn't
>make over that $x... So after I put in a good 3 hours of effort in seeing
>this thing come together, I get carded...
>
>DETOUR
>
>        I am 20 years old.  Hence, I can not be out past 2am in San Francisco,
>according to the law.  Hence, most of my dancing activity is either illegal
>or outside of San Francisco.  I refuse to get a fake ID however.  Why?  
>Because doing so is giving into the powers that be, when I know in my heart
>they are wrong.  If a club wants to be aggro about it, fine, I won't give them
>any of my vibe, their loss.  It's very similar to draft-card burning in the
>60's.  This is my form of silent protest.
>
>BACK ON TRACK
>
>So I get thrown out, a little more ceremoniously than last week in LA, but
>thrown out nonetheless.  I felt bad because it really really looked gorgeous
>inside, and Mark Farina was scheduled to play and had blown me away the time
>before.  So I said hi to the SFRaves contigent outside the front waiting to
>get in, and drove off in search of a phone to call the Wicked hotline to see
>if the rumor of a renegade was coming true.
>
>As for why Aurgasm was shut down - I think 174 King has been cursed, ever
>since Wicked was busted there.  No matter HOW good the intentions of the 
>promoters were (and in this case, they were VERY good) the club itself
>was the biggest deterrent.  No club held there will ever again be recommended
>by me.

Hmmm...THIS is one of the MANY reasons that people can't have a club here
in SF!  Brian, I've met you and I DO beleive that you have all the BEST
intentions, BUT...
going to a club that is specifically 21+, and you being present will get
the club shut down.  This does not help matters.  174 King street is a well
known 21+ space.  You know this.  As for them carding you, that's their
job.  They cannot have 21-- in their lest they lose their licesnes
alltogether.  I would think that you would be a bit more caring about other
people having a good time (which I KNOW you are)....a party getting busted
because of a 21-- is no fun.  Everyone goes home...rave is over.  Sometimes
you should respect the rules others have set.  

As for you not recommending it ever agian after they JUSTIFIABLY enforced a
LONG STANDING rule....BS man, plain BS!  I mean if you hate the venue
fine...but realize that now you're basically limited to the following here
in SF for 21--:
The Stone, DV8.  That's it.  174 King is not for 21-- to evaluate anyway
since most likely you would not get in!  There have been MANY great events
there, and there will be in the future...but for NOW you gotta be 21+ to
enjoy it. (BTW I am STILL down with doing the petition or at least getting
it started in some way).
If people would take their shit underground things would flourish...but I
beat my head against the wall talking about that shit so....

>
>Maureen, I don't think there's any significance in CyberFest being the 
>only party not getting busted - this was just a sweekend of collossal bad
>karma for the scene in general.  Maybe everyone should have swallowed 
>their pride and just gone to Cyberfest, braved the dust, and showed the
>new recruits what we're REALLY about....
>
>        Brian


Yes there is: Their shit went off and was well planned and coordinated with
the city/county of SF.  There is PLENTY to be said about that.  Like it or
no they had their collective shit together (and I am by far no fan of Cool
World).


In closing I do agree with you in many respects.  This weekend was mired in
greed, BS, and was generally unfocused.  Bad karma, bad judgement, bad
vibe.  Next weekend is the healing party for Mal.  I have my predictions as
the prophet, but I will save that until AFTER the party : ).  I do hope
that it goes well.  In the meantime  I hope that this weekend brought to
focus the reason why people go out.  It is to have a good time, and if for
nothing else, if you had an absence of a good time, then you will truly
treasure the times when you do have a good time.  It makes it all the
sweeter.  If you did have a good time despite all obstacles, then rest
assured, IT ONLY GETS BETTER FROM HERE (applies to all)!

Peace in/out... 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 20:08:24 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:51:58 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Tilt-a-Whirl Update


Ethan I. Miller says:

> This weeks lineup:
>   Tony
>   Markie
>   LaPaix
>   Carlos
>   Dutch

Where's Goa Gil spinning these days?  I thought he was a (semi)-permanent
fixture at Tilt-a-Whirl.  I was looking forward to seeing him this weekend
:(


-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 20:10:44 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 19:03:06 -0800
Subject: Re: Jazid Up

Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com> writes:
	One for tonight that didn't make it onto the calendar...

	Monday, July 19th - Jazid Up w/Mark Farina and Is
	        9pm-3am, 278 11th at Folsom.  415.979.5880, 21+, $2


i went to the opening of this event and had a wonderful, laid back time.
interesting and varied music, nice people.  i know the producers (eric
and ammon) and can vouch for their production values and their
committment to the scene.  the $2.00 cover tells me they're in it for
something other than money....

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 20:11:30 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 19:20:48 PDT
Subject: Pretexts


Ummm...excuse me, but how do the police get to chase people off legitimately
rented private property just because some people don't like the concept
of their existence?  I suppose some bogus legal pretext must have been 
found, but if not, legal action would be a good precedent to set, and
would certainly keep the fundies on their toes.  I don't think it's a
good idea to deliberately invite their wrath, but if that sort of
action goes unchecked we're in for even worse times ahead. 

Nonviolence is all well and good, but sometimes not defending oneself
causes more violence--directed at you.

Often even the threat of initiating a lawsuit will get people to do things
for you.  Just print a letter on nice letterhead advising your intentions
if they don't make restitution.  Check Nolo Press in Berkeley for some
good advice on initiating this stuff.  This won't be effective against
large established organizations (at least not usually) but it can be worth
a try.  Small-claims court isn't all that hard to deal with. // g

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 20:22:36 1993
From: ceti.csustan.edu!rsammuli@nexsys.net (Robert Sammuli)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:46:46 PDT
Subject: Re:  whistle boy!

There is a new user on the net.   I suggest we flame him.   His comments are
good and very meaningful but I believe he has to broken in.   I believe he
has never been flamed before.   The exp. would do him good.   He's a little
cocky and arrogant and a bit cynical and highly satirical.   Please forward
this message for he is a good friend Of mine and it's part of the sick jokes
good friends play in order to strengthen the good laughs of are fellow friends.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 20:28:44 1993
From: koko.csustan.edu!hsarbaz@nexsys.net (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:06:06 -0700
Subject: Mission: Protect The Undergorund Realm

Well fellow brothers and sisters, I think we've all learned our lessons
and from now on it  is our turn the subjects of the underground realm to
decide which promoters are commercial($$$$$$) and which are in more for the
love of the Underground Ravedom. Think about that!!!!!!

I suggest the follwing (reminder: they are only suggestions and please put input
on this):

1) the less the general population hears or gets flyers from the Underground
Promoters the less likely the chance of a true gathering bieng cancelled; after
all isn't "Underground Scene" meant to emphasize that such spontaneous gathering
s are kept secret from the general population. So be responsible and aware to wh
om
whom you hand flyers out to not to mention be selective as far as do you know if
 f
the person you're handing a flyer to or talking about a rave is an Underground
Subject with 100% loyalty to our Ravedom.

2) Communication!!!!!!! thats the key word here. Who are the promoters, are they
a bunch of people who really know what they are doing or what are their intentio
ns greed($$$$$$) or music. I think someone should research and come up with
a list of current promoters who have done an absolutly awsome job all around.
That way when promoters do advertise their event we can say " ...hmmm! this guy
is the one who ........ and these guys.........so I will go to......." get the
picture???

3)Please keep the Underground Realm underground!!! If any promoter does co decid
e
to commercialize use your "right" to boycott, and maybe that way all those
religous, politically corrupt, ignorant bunch of non-democratic assholes(pardon
me Francais) will not point any nasty fingers at "...those horrible sinical
drug addicted school drop out get a life ravers..." (yeah right) they are the
ones that cause the most problem if they start accusing us instead of the
promoters who cook up some get rich quik scam without any consideration for the
future generation of the Underground.

Please feel free to add on or give your opinions on this matter and maybe just
maybe we will be able to stay Underground and have more fun in the near future..
. what do you think.....hehehe!!!

                                Rave-Forever, Hoss Wislboy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 20:34:16 1993
From: Fred Heutte <well.sf.ca.us!phred@nexsys.net>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 19:04:23 -0700
Subject: Re:  Weekend report:Dangerous Visions

Well, thanks to Geoff for his amazing  post.  I spent  all day yesterday
wandering around SF waiting for the Wicked line to be updated with what
ever was happening, since I sensed exactly what he said -- that everyone
was jonesing to spin the good vibe in all the ways that needs to happen.
And since the message was never updated (it still has the 3:30 am
Sunday morning version) I figured either something had started and
not really happened, or nothing at all.  I figured the weekend was
pretty much a loss but  then I didn't go through what Geoff and the
others did, which makes my disappointment seem pretty puny!

The freedom and flexibility of the early days is being lost, it's
just the flipside of success, in many respects.  The scene is not
firmly established; it slips and slides and occasionally, like this
weekend, goes flat.  But what other group of people will go through
hell, high water, fundamentalist weirdos, cop trips, club attitudes,
and all the rest?  Only the ones who *know* what's at the end of the
rainbow, coz we've been there.  

Have you ever seen Brian Eno's board game?  I don't have a copy of
it here, but  basically it has directions for dealing with frustration
and uncertainty.  Roll the dice and move three positions.  The square
says, "Do the opposite of your first inclination."  Or "List three
things and do them in reverse order."  I don't even remember the
actual entries, but it was like those.  The idea is not to become
imprisoned in our own modes of thinking.  

The scene is not what we want it to be.  It is what it is.  But we
do have responsibility for our part of it and it's still within our
grasp to mold that part of it . . . as we are in fact doing.
Ain't it fun?  

Geoff didn't have much fun backing down that idiot on the beach, but
these are hard lessons and we all have to learn to laugh in the face
of adversity (I'm certainly not lecturing Geoff in this regard, you've
set a high standard for attitude here as always, bro).

I don't feel much like drawing big conclusions from all this right now;
this is from the heart.  We'll go on because we can and we should.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 22:28:36 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:46:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Tilt-a-Whirl Update

>Where's Goa Gil spinning these days?  I thought he was a (semi)-permanent

 Goa Gil is another one I've never seen before....someone told me he spins
 hardcore...is that so?  With a name like Goa Gil I would think he would spin
 cool sitar and tabla rhythms. :)

 Tamara
 .


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 22:57:08 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 22:03:04 PDT
Subject: Re:  whistle boy! (fwd)

Forwarded message:
> From: ceti.csustan.edu!rsammuli@nexsys.net (Robert Sammuli)
> Message-Id: <9307200146.AA02475@ceti.csustan.edu>
> Subject: Re:  whistle boy!
> 
> There is a new user on the net.   I suggest we flame him.   His comments are
> good and very meaningful but I believe he has to broken in.   I believe he
> has never been flamed before.   The exp. would do him good.   He's a little
> cocky and arrogant and a bit cynical and highly satirical.   Please forward
> this message for he is a good friend Of mine and it's part of the sick jokes
> good friends play in order to strengthen the good laughs of are fellow friends.
 Err - I deleted his posting already , so what's his email address?

 Also - give him time ... eventually , anybody who expresses their opinion
gets singed a little or a lot. No need to go out of your/our way.

 Lastly - how will he be able to tell the difference between a real flame
and our "friendly" bogus ones? 

					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 


-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 19 23:46:48 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 22:39:15 PDT
Subject: Fair Fare?


-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 00:38:57 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 23:15:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

Hmmm.  You wrote, "it seems that the promoters wanted to use the name nad
place of the native people without their assent or support."  I spoke with
Steven, one of the promoters in Nevada numerous times, I spoke with Richard,
and a reputable NV DJ Christophe was involved.  I can not believe that these
people would be as stupid as you suggest, that they were not in
communication with the tribal councils, that they thought they could have
thousands of people show up on a reservation and get away with it...come on.
These people fucked up organizationally, logistically, no doubt.  

Until we hear from these folks directly, their stories of what happened,
let's give our speculations a rest, or at least let us all be more objective
and less judgemental  (and this goes for myself as well). 

---In the brief moments in time after a party has been cancelled or shut
down, the light, the energy that would have been generated by us all has
been dimmed....even if temporarily...thus I say, "Rave, rave against the
dying of the light."   --peace   Maureen

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 00:43:39 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 23:43:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

	i am really sick of your 'i told you so' bullshit jon.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 00:48:40 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 22:56:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Tilt-a-Whirl Update

I think Goa Gil fits more into the tribal/hard trance category.  
Very buzzy.  He's really good at what he does, I recommend him
because he has virtually a unique sound in the SF scene.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 00:52:47 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 00:04:53 -0800
Subject: Re: sunday report

lee notes:

>Bob Jesse reports:  

>> had what might be the limit case of a micro-rave.
>
>More like a nano-rave ;-)  It would seem that this was the
>best event of the weekend.  Excellent music, location, price -
>and obviously, a great Vibe!

:-)

and, bust-free, clean air (no smoking), plenty of space, hassle-free
security, free water and nice selection of beverages, music loud enough
to feel but not painfully or dangerously loud, convenient laundry facilities
to make better use of sunday time, at most one person present with imperfect  
attitude, but nobody seemed to mind....

i did miss sharing the vibe, though.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 01:43:52 1993
From: Fred Heutte <well.sf.ca.us!phred@nexsys.net>
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 21:07:35 -0700
Subject: Re:  Mission: Protect The Undergorund Realm

I've been at great events that were flyered only by hand on scribbled
pieces of paper, and I've been to real duds.  I've been to excellent
events flyered with 4-color classic flyers . . . but I've been to
more duds of that type, so it's not entirely symmetric :)

Universe in the UK has a great rep, they are gearing up for September.
I am looking here at absolutely huge, colorful, very expensive ads
in the UK scene magazines for their events.  They work very well from
all I've heard.  I've also heard that some of the massive multi-tent
outdoor events there are really terrible.

There is no dividing line between renegade and commercial, as several
of the organizing posses have shown.  What matters is intention. . .
and the truth will out, eventually, but not  before a good many of
the punters (like moi this weekend) shell out  our $20 to take our
chances and learn something about the extremes of the bell curve.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 03:49:04 1993
From: - Greg Earle <earle@isolar.tujunga.ca.us>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 02:47:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

Joe Rice drops some science:
>I'm not going to be redundant and post about the Genesis Project (cold,
>underacheived, I can't believe they still play Techno in SD),
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Sorry to be the out-of-touch old fart bastard barging in here to upset your
little Peace, Love and Unity vibe, but maybe I missed the passing of some City
Ordinance against the playing of Techno at a Rave, perhaps?  Because if not,
then this may be the most asinine thing I've ever read on this (SoCal-Raves)
list.

[Warning: the remainer contains material that could be considered inflammatory]

While I'm shooting my mouth off and proclaiming that The Emperor Has No
Clothes, chew on this one re LA ToGather: as far as I was concerned, in the
space of one half hour, Taylor completely blew away all the utter crap music
that I heard downstairs from 3:00 to 8:00, and that includes all your little SF
God DJs like Jeno and Garth.  Check that - Taylor's *last 2 songs* blew away 5
hours of regurgitated Disco and repetitive House boredom that we suffered
through downstairs (but my thanks to Bob and Andy for the good conversation).

But first, a brief digression: on the way to LA Togather, PowerTools had LA's
DJ Trance on from 1:30 to 2:00.  He played one of the best half-hour sets I've
heard in recent memory (certainly miles better than any of the rubbish I heard
at LA ToGather, with the exception of Taylor), and at the end they announced
that Trance is going back to Washington D.C. for the rest of the summer.  So,
those of you in ne-raves land anywhere near the Beltway, listen up - do *not*
miss an event where this cat is spinning.  He manages to start off on a hip-hop
influenced tip and smoothly mutates into hard Breakbeat and to straighter
Hardcore, all without missing a step.  Definitely one of my favorite LA DJs. 
Don't miss him!  (OK, you ne-ravers can hit that "d" or "n" key now ... )

Back to you West Coast denizens:

From 3:00 - 5:30, all we heard (for the most part) was the same old tired
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

It really seems to me like The Scene (maaaaannn) has taken a giant step
backwards.  I did see some interesting looking people there (and immediately
assumed they must be San Franciscans (-: - as it turned out, they were local LA
clothing designers), but the women in the scene have totally fallen for this
early-70's retro thing which is already old hat (there's already Bullocks ads
in the Sunday LA Times with girls wearing chokers and split hairdos and bell
bottoms - what more do you need to know that something is not forward-looking
anymore?), and the music seems to be following it.  To where?  Set the Wayback
for 1977, Sherman my dear boy.  Remember when Disco was King?  Well, now King
is Disco (oh sorry, bad pun (-: ).  Yep, Disco's bastard grandchild, House,
now rules the roost.  Wonder how long it will be before Cocaine makes a big
comeback, and people start to grumble about What Happened to the Peace & Love
Vibe until they realize that it was mostly Ecstacy-fueled in the first place?

It absolutely amazes me that in less than a year's time, I've gone from seeing
Richard James (Aphex Twin et al.) live-mix the most absolute mindfuck & FORWARD
LOOKING music I've ever heard, in a perfect outdoor setting, to the present
time where the music has devolved to the point where it's *just like Disco all
over again* - all people seem to care about now is That Beat, and as long as
you keep That Beat shuffling around for oh, 10-15 minutes at a stretch, it
doesn't matter that what's tossed on top of it; whether there's any substance
to it or not.  And speaking as someone who lived through the first Disco era,
it reminds me of nothing more than that.  Well, House Nation dwellers, you can
have it - 'cuz I ain't buyin' into it.  I can sit this phase out - "This too,
shall pass".  (On the same tip, read Jason Bentley's comments in the last Urb
on what blew him away the most when he went to that last Universe rave in
England.  Hint: it wasn't Diva music.)  But enough Rave Philosophy 101 for the
moment, let's get back to the goings on at LA ToGather ...

On a more positive tip, at 8:00 we were hangin' in the downstairs lobby during
a lull in the proceedings, when suddenly a girl came running up to us and
shrieked "Taylor's on upstairs ... Trance set!".  We quickly bolted up the 4
flights of stairs and arrived just in time to hear a half-hour of manna from
Techno heaven, from someone with a clue.  The contrasts are just SO strong -
the rhythms are *much* more interesting; they *mutate* in under 10 minutes and
keep your interest; and then there's that magic touch - the dreamy loooong airy
(or sometimes Acidic) keyboard lines that just fit absolutely perfectly with
the propulsive beat.  Yes folks, Hard Trance is what we be talkin' here.  Da
Shit.  And like I said, Taylor's last two tracks (8:25 - 8:35 or so) were just
perfection, outta-this-world stylee.  (Can you tell who's going to go to the
"official" RePHLeX opening this week?  (-: )

During Taylor's set, I was dancing near my friend Priest, who was blowing on
his digeridoo (this man plays a MEAN ass digeridoo, btw).  At the other end,
blowing back at him was this lithesome lovely lass, all dressed in black -
kinda almost a "casual Industrial Goth" style.  "Much respect", methought, "to
this lovely woman that's not afraid to dress her own way in the midst of the
new trendy hip-hugger crowd".  Later on, I was surprised to hear Priest say
"That was some trippy shit when Sandra Collins was blowing back at me on the
other end of my digeridoo ... I could hear/feel it in my mouth as I was blowing
my end!".  (No, I'd never seen Sandra close up enough to know her on sight. 
But she's as lovely in person as her picture in the latest Urb feature on Lady
DJs shows her to be.)  By that time, Taylor had finished; and with that, we
beat our retreat from LA ToGather ...

I'm sorry if this comes off sounding like gratuitous flame-bait; it's not meant
to be such.  But I'd been meaning to post our impressions of LA ToGather
(shared by several others in my posse) and the scene down here in general, and
Joe's comment just set me off.  Return comments acknowledged, but if you're
gonna take the "What the f*ck do you know, you're pushing 35 - it's not YOUR
generation" tack, be prepared for a good battle (-: - I've already lived
through (and participated full-on in all of) the last, oh, say, 5 Youth Culture
movements ...  (-:

	- Greg Earle
	  earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US		...!elroy!isolar!earle (UUCP)
	  (Aging ex-Punk ex-Post-Punk ex-Mod ex-Goth ex-Industrial Technohead)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 05:50:55 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 12:49:55 BST
Subject: Re: I MAGI NATION



  Chris> #@&%$#*%&'ing place....then, when they shut you down, you sue their
  Chris> britches out from under them for denying your constitutional rights
  Chris> and for depriving you of the business you would have been doing.
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's what i love about the american legal system.  All it cares about is money...

	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 05:55:31 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 12:46:22 BST
Subject: Re: Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more


  Randy> richard kept talking about this being the revival of wovoka's ghost dance.
  Randy> after you've had your people machine gunned for dancing, you too might
  Randy> undertstand native people's anger over claims like thjis.

Please explain... you're not seriously telling me that your government
machine gunes people for dancing...?  Are you...?

"Oi... You ravers, stop dancing!  Stand perfectly still, and put your
hands in the air!  No, don't wave your hands around, keep still...  Look,
stop dancing....  Ok, they're asking for it, open fire....!"



	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 06:02:24 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 05:09:20 PDT
Subject: Re: Mission: Protect The Undergorund Realm

> 
> Well fellow brothers and sisters, I think we've all learned our lessons
> and from now on it  is our turn the subjects of the underground realm to
> decide which promoters are commercial($$$$$$) and which are in more for the
> love of the Underground Ravedom. Think about that!!!!!!

How true.



> 
> I suggest the follwing (reminder: they are only suggestions and please put input
> on this):
> 
> 1) the less the general population hears or gets flyers from the Underground
> Promoters the less likely the chance of a true gathering bieng cancelled; after
> all isn't "Underground Scene" meant to emphasize that such spontaneous gathering
> s are kept secret from the general population. So be responsible and aware to wh
> om
> whom you hand flyers out to not to mention be selective as far as do you know if
>  f
> the person you're handing a flyer to or talking about a rave is an Underground
> Subject with 100% loyalty to our Ravedom.

Unfortunately for these events, I must agree, you have to be selective,
this might be considered elitist but...  well, when I first started raving,
I was not privy to the really underground parties, it took time for 
people to observe me, build trust, know where I was coming from etc.  For
some, the stakes are high,  It's not just a question of whether he or she
is cool or not, It's more a question of wheather you can count on a person
to "have your back" as my Oaktown Homeboy brothers would say.  When the 5-Oh
is at the door, or in the parking lot, kicking ass, and taking names, you want
to feel like you've got mostly "family" around you, people who won't bolt
or breakdown under a little pressure.  Underground events are just that,
underground, they are illegal by there very nature if not technically so.
You need people around you who can opperate in an autonomous yet co-operative
fashion.  These kind of events build up webs of trust.  You learn what each
person in your group is capable of, what their breaking point is how far they
will go...  If the times get more opressive, you need to know who you can
count on when the shit hits the fan.  This is why we need to continue to have
underground events and why they need to STAY underground!!

> 
> 2) Communication!!!!!!! thats the key word here. Who are the promoters, are they
> a bunch of people who really know what they are doing or what are their intentio
> ns greed($$$$$$) or music. I think someone should research and come up with
> a list of current promoters who have done an absolutly awsome job all around.
> That way when promoters do advertise their event we can say " ...hmmm! this guy
> is the one who ........ and these guys.........so I will go to......." get the
> picture???

There are problems with this, some promoters have different skills,
some promoters are consistant at throwing good, legal, above ground parties
that have most of the transformative force of a well planned and executed
underground.  Most of the hardcore know promoters like this, things like
the Gathering, Basics, Vision have had few duds and the vibe has been
consistantly high.  Martin's large parties are usually a success although
he has not had good luck with smaller things that he's thrown.

If you like the type of party and crowd that goes to a Sharon, they seem
to be fairly consistant, I have my problems with the promoter however.

The problem is that just because your intentions are pure and you are
totally devoted to the vibe, that doesn't mean you have the focus or
business sense to execute good consistant parties.  Some promoters have
networks of people, similar to the way that the Jamacan drug posses
operate, where you know who you know, and all of your members are not
clearly defined to the outside world, (sorta like a C++ object with
public and private data elements :),  these groups can often do well
because they have people in the group who can make up the deficiencies
of other members.  Some of these groups can throw good undergrounds
and fairly consistant parties, they use their undergrounds as adverts
for the paying parties and visa versa, Wicked is sort of in this mold,
the FMR is their "ritual", It's what they do to remember why they are here
and to renew their commitment every 28 days to the scene and to each other,
It's much more that just a free party to them, its a way to solidify their
bond to each other, give back a little to the house community and spread
the Vibe out to new commers, if you can find it, and you stay the course,
the FMR can be a very rewarding experience.  They are also committed to 
having high quality, above ground parties in the City of
San Francisco,  I think for several reasons; They are dedicated to deseminating
their interpretation of The Vibe and always making that path available to
new people coming into the scene,  they also need to make a living, as this
is their life's work, their Tao or Dharma so to speak.




> 
> 3)Please keep the Underground Realm underground!!! If any promoter does co decid
> e
> to commercialize use your "right" to boycott, and maybe that way all those
> religous, politically corrupt, ignorant bunch of non-democratic assholes(pardon
> me Francais) will not point any nasty fingers at "...those horrible sinical
> drug addicted school drop out get a life ravers..." (yeah right) they are the
> ones that cause the most problem if they start accusing us instead of the
> promoters who cook up some get rich quik scam without any consideration for the
> future generation of the Underground.

There will always be an underground. Even if House music is totally
co-opted (as is Rap today) there will ALWAYS  be an underground.
Remember, House was born in the Regan/Bush era, one of the darkest
times for free speech and thought in american history.  It survived by
having the power to subvert, without words!  In a time when words were
being attacked, censored, twisted and mis-used.  While presidents
quoted the lyrics made fameous by rock stars,  and appropriated songs
like "Don't worry, be happy", House Music, with little, obtuse, silly,
or no words, was out there getting the job done!  Turning on and waking
up Young America.  It came from a sector of the population that had
been left for dead, that of gay, black males.  Out of the darkness
often comes the light.  I remember in 1986 while I was living in
Boston, someone had been to Chicago and had brought some house music
records and DJs back to Boston, he told me that House music would be
the next major musical trend and that it would transform the world with
it's vibe, I listened to him and listened to the music, but didn't get
it.  There was no substance, no words, how could this new type of
"disco" music do anything like that...

I wish I could find that person today. 

But there was an underground then, it was just not as accesible as it
is now, and if this current glimmer of light that we are now
experiencing in this country turns out to be just swamp gas :), The
underground will go deeper, but it will always be there, you just have
to have patience, diligence, and be committed to the search.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 06:44:15 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:41:17 BST
Subject: Re: Fwd: Long partially-rave-related article 


I didn't really know what to make of that article.  To my ears, the
language in it sounded grossly homophobic, though it was difficult to
see what message the subject matter was trying to make.  I'm left
completely confused about the authors opinions...

Maybe I'm just out of touch, but I was under the impression that the
gay community (in this country at least) found the words "queer" and
"fag" deeply offensive...

	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 06:51:26 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 05:39:47 PDT
Subject: Re: Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

> 
>   Randy> richard kept talking about this being the revival of wovoka's ghost dance.
>   Randy> after you've had your people machine gunned for dancing, you too might
>   Randy> undertstand native people's anger over claims like thjis.
> 
> Please explain... you're not seriously telling me that your government
> machine gunes people for dancing...?  Are you...?

Unfortunately Native American religion is legally surpressed in this country,
there are federal laws FORBIDDING the practice of some native american religions
(and I'm not just talking about peyote, either!)  Yes we have freedom of religion here
as long as it isn't blantant paganism, or your not a native american trying to
remember what your grandparents knew.  As far as this being Wovoka ghost dance, well
as L.L. Cool J. would say "I don't think so".  I could see some Born again indians getting
upset because they look to the white god of their conquerors as savior and look to the old
ways as evil,  I could see the traditional members of the council see this statement
as foolish or stupid, although I understand where Richard was coming from if he indeed
said this.  

As far as machine gunning people for dancing, that is only ONE event in the history
of genocide that the US Government has committed or allowed other citizens to commit
against Native Americans.

It's funny to me sometimes that, White America, over the years, kills indians, travels
across the ocean to get a group of people to force them to build a country that they
are not allowed to share in the (stolen) wealth of, invades a tiny southeast asian country
kills half of it's population, turns it's women into whores, bombs it, defoliates it,
begrudgingly accepts some refugees and then wonders why their urban streets are unsafe
at night.  The truth of the matter is that most of these groups are not as revenge
minded as most people believe them to be in their minds.  If you delve, really delve
into American History and look at the way Native Americans or African Americans were/are
treated, it's enough to make you sick, or really angry.  If your lucky, you realize that
so much shit has happened, that the only answer, the only thing that can heal the wounds,
is unconditional Love.  I know this sounds sappy, but if I didn't believe this, with 
what I've discovered about the way this country opperates, with groups of people
that "get in the way", the only alternative for me would be to go out and buy an AK-47...


> 
> "Oi... You ravers, stop dancing!  Stand perfectly still, and put your
> hands in the air!  No, don't wave your hands around, keep still...  Look,
> stop dancing....  Ok, they're asking for it, open fire....!"
> 

Let hope and pray it NEVER, EVER comes to this.



					- G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 06:56:14 1993
From: Roy Badami <harlequin.co.uk!roy@nexsys.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:21:49 BST
Subject: Re: Weekend report:Dangerous Visions

>>>>> On Mon, 19 Jul 93 14:26:53 PDT, geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White) said:

  Geoff> It will take some really good event (ravey or otherwise) for
  Geoff> me to believe that the Scene as we have come to know and love
  Geoff> it, is not truely comming to and end.  (I do think it can be
  Geoff> save however)

I'm not sure I believe this.  I've heard it so many times now, that
I'm beginning to regard it much like "imenent death of usenet
predicted".  

As long as there are ravers, there will be raves.

The scene may change, but it won't die.  It may at times be small and
week, and go underground, and at other times, it may be stronger and
larger, and get mainstream attention, but whatever happens, we will
continue to party...


	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 07:42:01 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:49:18 BST
Subject: Re: Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 93 05:39:47 PDT, geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White) said:

  Geoff> Unfortunately Native American religion is legally surpressed
  Geoff> in this country, there are federal laws FORBIDDING the
  Geoff> practice of some native american religions (and I'm not just
  Geoff> talking about peyote, either!)

I thought that your constitution protected you from this kind of
thing.  I always thought it was really cool that the US had a
constitutional separation between church and state, whereas in the UK,
a Christian state, it's illegal to open a shop on a Sunday!

  Geoff> As far as machine gunning people for dancing, that is only
  Geoff> ONE event in the history of genocide that the US Government
  Geoff> has committed or allowed other citizens to commit against
  Geoff> Native Americans.

Would you care to elaborate on either of these points?  I'm still very
much in the dark as to how the US would legislate against a particular
religion, or why they would shoot people for dancing.  Clearly there's
more to it than that...

Also, what is a wovoka ghost dance?

	Thanks,

	  Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 07:48:38 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 6:57:34 PDT
Subject: Fair Fare?



Well , with the Aurgasm experience recently , and the continual complaints
about the selling of water , I have some questions to ask -
( By the way - no flame content intended )

1. If the cost for a venue ( a club , for example ) of running an event
   per hour is C , then how much profit over costs/hour C seems fair
   to you? 

   Is the amount of profit dependent on how long you think you're going
   to be there?
  

2. Would you pay for an admission ticket that included a two-drink charge
   in its price? 

   Consider the option of getting no refund/partial refund if you don't 
   drink .

3. What factors go into considering an admission price "high" ?  

   If a rave was charging a "high" price , but with free water , water 
   bottles allowed , etc. , would the "free" amenities be enough to 
   justify a "high" price?

4. What would you buy at a "nightclub" rave that would help the clubowners
   make a profit? ( Right now , most nightclubs are essentially bars 
   that have a stage and dancefloor to attract customers - what should
   the clubowner sell to replace lost alcohol revenues? )  


***********************************


   I have no connection to any nightclub owner - just trying to see things
  from an owner's/bill payer's point of view . After all , they pay the 
  employees' salaries , the electricity , the costs of basic setup ,
  cleanup , damages , insurance , organized crime protection , etc. Also,
  any event that results in the police/fire marshall showing up means
  city hall hassles for them too. 

  Who knows , maybe they should get a digested version of the replies! 
  Although some may be too proud to take outside advice/opinions. 

	Larry "Feelthy Kapitalist Scum!" Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 08:25:39 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 07:13:43 -0700
Subject: House Nation paused for a comeback

Seriously, I hope that many of you don't think that because of a bad
weekend, or should I say, one that was not up to par, that this signals the
imminent death of the scene here.  That is bullshit!  What is happening (as
I mentioned in a previous post), is the summertime blues.  Happened last
year, and it looks like this years gonna be a repeat.  Some of the
promoters you know and trust are on hiatus, or doing word of mouth parties
(underground).  This summer will pass, and thigs will get back to normal
quickly.  The other thing is after 3 years of parties (some of you less,
and some more), you have come to expect much more out of a party.  Whether
its people having their stuff together, a good vibe, excellent music.  This
is a good thing, and will only make the Fall/Winter months even more fun. 
All of this stuff (bad whatever) will pass and things will get back to
normal, until then stay cool, calm, and always selective!

P.S. I've already begun top notice that some of you are making plans for
Universe...interesting.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 08:39:21 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:36:20 BST
Subject: Re: Fair Fare?




  Larry> 4. What would you buy at a "nightclub" rave that would help the clubowners
  Larry>    make a profit? ( Right now , most nightclubs are essentially bars 
  Larry>    that have a stage and dancefloor to attract customers - what should
  Larry>    the clubowner sell to replace lost alcohol revenues? )  


A nightclub owner makes his money by selling the drug of choice at
nightclubs, alcohol. The problem arises because the drugs of choice at
raves are illegal, so the promoter is denied to oportunity of selling
the rave-goies what they want to buy.  If drugs were legal, a rave
promoter could sell good E and acid at the bar a good price, and still
do well out of it.  And it'd even be in his interests to give away
free water, so people could do as much E as they wanted..

As ever, the problems stem at least partly from the criminalization of
drugs...

	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 09:17:32 1993
From: jna@bronze.lcs.mit.edu (small furry projectiles)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 10:07:55 EST
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

I laugh, only because I still dress in black.

Because I haven't succumbed to the ""''rave''"" trend, and that it
is only a matter of time untill fashion and such regress into the 80's..

Think about it. :)

Hell, In Back to the Future (II? III?) [The movie, not the rave, stupid]

Michael J Fox is in the future, and what do they have? 80's retro clubs and
diners...


--john

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 09:26:37 1993
From: peyote@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 22:12:47 PDT
Subject: major dissonance over weekend

...or what?  i didn't rave this weekend
doesn't look like i shouda either or so it seems reading
all the posts.  i imagi-dreamed last nite that i kept trying
to get to a rave but you had to write something kewl to get
in - all my dream messages weren't up to snuff so on to the
next map point *THE WHOLE DREAM WAS LIKE THIS* seems even in my
dreams i couldn't rave.  just a natural fact sometimes.


__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ peyote@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]

   The CyberDen - Public Access Waffle Usenet System - 415/472-5527

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 09:32:47 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 20 Jul 1993 08:12:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

This is a post to Cosmic and any other sfravers who don't know what a ghost
dance is/was.  

Taken from Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown, 1971.

"All Indians must dance, everywhere, keep on dancing.  Pretty soon in the
next spring Great Spirit come.  He bring back all game of every kind.  The
game be thick everywhere.  All dead Indians come back and live again.  They
all be strong juts like young men, be young again.  Old blink Indian see
again and get young and have fine time.  When Great Spirit comes this way,
then all the Indians go to the mountains, high up away from whites.  Whites
can't hurt Indians then.  Then while Indians way up high, big flood comes
like water and all white people die, get drowned.  After that, water go way
and then nobody but Indians everhwhere and game all kinds thick.  Then
medicine man tell Indians to send word to all Indians to keep up dancing and
the good time will come.  Indians who didn't dance, who don't believe in
this word, will grow little, just about a foot high, and stay that way. Some
of them will be turned into wood and be burned in fire. --Wovoka, the Paiute
Messiah."

The religion, whose ceremony was the Ghost Dance, spread from Nevada east to
the plains tribes.  The final blow to the American Indian freedom movement
was Wounded Knee where 350+ people who were Ghost Dancing, were gunned to
death by weapons at the time capable of getting off one shell per second.
Correction, the above number is 300.  50 people, mostly women and children,
all torn and bleeding survived to be brought into a church four days after
Christmas in 1890. "Those who were conscious could see Christmas greenery
handing from the open rafters.  Across the chancel front above the pulpit
was strung a crudely lettered banner: PEACE ON EARTH, GOOD WILL TO MEN."
--Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 10:53:34 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 09:43:38 -0700
Subject: Re: water

Rocky Mullin writes:
	>there *must* be a law on the books that a bar or dancing
	>establishment needs to provide water free of charge...
	>and make it a crime to purposely deny the flow of free
	>water... like shutting down fountains.  it seems to me
	>that at dancing kind of places, water is a necessity just
	>like emergency exits are a necessity.

I don't know if there is such a law. Way back when I first started 
going clubbing (long before I turned 21) The dance clubs used to 
charge for water because they weren't making money from us from alcohol.


vivianm

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 11:14:30 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 09:41:01 PDT
Subject: House Nation paused for a comeback

john lee supposes:

>What is happening (as I mentioned in a previous post), is the
>summertime blues.  Happened last year, and it looks like this years
>gonna be a repeat.

i don't know where you got this notion from - cos last summer was
*incredible*.  at least, i went to dozens of parties with vibe to
spare.  let freedom rave, where's waldo, basics all spring to mind
instantly.  i bet if i went through last summer's sfraves archives i'd
remember some more.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 11:40:11 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 10:10:17 PDT
Subject:  Weekend report:Dangerous Visions

fred heutte:

>Have you ever seen Brian Eno's board game?  I don't have a copy of
>it here, but  basically it has directions for dealing with frustration
>and uncertainty.  Roll the dice and move three positions.  The square
>says, "Do the opposite of your first inclination."  Or "List three
>things and do them in reverse order."  I don't even remember the
>actual entries, but it was like those.  The idea is not to become
>imprisoned in our own modes of thinking.  

it's a deck of cards called Oblique Strategies.  he used them when he
had creative blocks in the studio.  i actually tried them a few times
and they were pretty cool.  i can send the list of them to sfraves if
there's interest.  you can write a simple program to pick random ones
out of the file if you like.  here's a few of my favorite:

Don't be frightened of cliches
Look closely at the most embarrassing details and amplify them
Do something boring

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 11:50:37 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 10:03:55 PDT
Subject: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

Greg Earle explicates:

>From 3:00 - 5:30, all we heard (for the most part) was the same old
>tired formula: shufflebeat House rhythms, sometimes to the point of
>mind-numbing tediousness (can't these people change the kick track
>even *once* in oh, say 10 minutes, just for variety's sake??), with
>some other repetitive motif laid over the top, and no keyboards to be
>found anywhere.  At one point, I heard horrible sax warblings over
>The Rhythm, and at another point I heard some god-awful George
>Benson-esque noodleroni Jazz guitar, fer chrissakes!

geez, at least you didn't get the full on Wailing Diva stuff.  count
your lucky stars.  i can NOT understand the appeal of that stuff at
all.

>It really seems to me like The Scene (maaaaannn) has taken a giant
>step backwards.  I did see some interesting looking people there (and
>immediately assumed they must be San Franciscans (-: - as it turned
>out, they were local LA clothing designers), but the women in the
>scene have totally fallen for this early-70's retro thing which is
>already old hat (there's already Bullocks ads in the Sunday LA Times
>with girls wearing chokers and split hairdos and bell bottoms - what
>more do you need to know that something is not forward-looking
>anymore?), and the music seems to be following it.  To where?  Set
>the Wayback for 1977, Sherman my dear boy.  Remember when Disco was
>King?  Well, now King is Disco (oh sorry, bad pun (-: ).  Yep,
>Disco's bastard grandchild, House, now rules the roost.  Wonder how
>long it will be before Cocaine makes a big comeback, and people start
>to grumble about What Happened to the Peace & Love Vibe until they
>realize that it was mostly Ecstacy-fueled in the first place?

what rock have you been hiding under?  this has ALREADY HAPPENED.  i
was proclaiming Death Of Vibe Due To E Shortage two months
ago.  the only thing you got wrong is that it isn't cocaine that's
replacing it - it's crystal meth.

>It absolutely amazes me that in less than a year's time, I've gone
>from seeing Richard James (Aphex Twin et al.) live-mix the most
>absolute mindfuck & FORWARD LOOKING music I've ever heard

what is the big deal about him?  i don't hear much originality in his
stuff at all.  granted, "digeridoo" was unlike anything else, but what
have we got since then?  i mean, i *like* the Selected Ambient Works,
but it's not that original.

>to the present time where the music has devolved to the point where
>it's *just like Disco all over again* -

well, i'm with you man.  i can't stand it.  give me ANYTHING other
than house/disco.  unless it's mean fucking take no prisoners beat you
up house like The Wildchild Experience.  almost industrial but with a
shuffle groove.  gotta dig it.  unfortunately, those tracks are few
and far between.

>all people seem to care about now is That Beat, and as long as you
>keep That Beat shuffling around for oh, 10-15 minutes at a stretch,
>it doesn't matter that what's tossed on top of it; whether there's
>any substance to it or not.

the other thing to keep in mind is that this sort of thing has ALWAYS
been present in the San Frandisco scene - it's just one of the
undercurrents that always bubbled along.  we have a diverse scene,
thank god, and when is say diverse, i don't mean one guy does hardcore
techno and the other guy does breakbeat.  DJ Spun, who is currently #1
on my list of DJ Gods, melted my brain and probably the brains of
everyone who was at Let Freedom Rave - what he played belonged to no
particular time (i clocked the dates as being from 1986 to 1993) or
style, but it was all inspired and all tweaky and mostly electronic
(not entirely, there was some serious funky guitar in there too).  but
you and i can quote individual isolated examples to each other until
we get sick and it won't prove anything.  you got to hear two of the
most disco-happy/houseified DJs from SF in one night - don't judge an
entire scene by them.  in fact, don't even judge them by that one set.
i've heard stuff by jeno that curled my hair and stuff that made me
want to throw rotten eggs at him.  ditto for garth.

>The contrasts are just SO strong - the rhythms are *much* more
>interesting

to you.  that's your personal opinion.  i've heard plenty of cookie
cutter trance music too.

besides, the best trance record ever made (which also has some
seriously funky hip hop elements) has just come out and it was
produced by a guy from marin, so pay some respect to your northern
cousins.  and go out and buy this record - it's called FREAKY CHAKRA
and it's on Exist Dance Records (which is based in LA so you can feel
good about buying it).  it will rip your head off.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 12:01:27 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (leah)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 10:11:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

no, I won't say, you're pushing 35 - it's not YOUR generation, especially
since I know plenty of ravers your age and older.  but I *will* say that
I find your whole attitude to be totally unnecessary.  for someone who 
complains about all the crap you see, you certainly are spreading some in
your own way.  yes, I complain and I question, but I also try and help
solve the problem in my own way, however I deem necessary.  but I don't
sit around and completely dis other parts of the scene which are just as
important as yours.  I went to la togather and did I like it?  not all 
that much.  and yes I did complain about it.  but why present it to the
list as gospel from god that my opinion should be revered by all?  if
you find something to complain about then try to help fix it, and if 
you don't want to help then complain quieter.  there's enough crap to
deal with as it is, don't load on more.

I happen to like garth and jeno, and I really enjoyed some of the stuff
they played, it happens to be a type of music I like.  I'm sorry you
didn't, but I'm more sorry you couldn't find something a little more
useful to say to the rest of us.

always, leah









From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 12:03:40 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 18:18:26 BST
Subject: Re: water


Rocky Mullin writes:
	>there *must* be a law on the books that a bar or dancing
	>establishment needs to provide water free of charge...  and
	>make it a crime to purposely deny the flow of free water...
	>like shutting down fountains.  it seems to me that at dancing
	>kind of places, water is a necessity just like emergency
	>exits are a necessity.

>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 93 09:43:38 -0700, vivianm@src.dec.com said:

  vivianm> I don't know if there is such a law. Way back when I first
  vivianm> started going clubbing (long before I turned 21) The dance
  vivianm> clubs used to charge for water because they weren't making
  vivianm> money from us from alcohol.

FYI, in the UK it is a condition of the licence to serve alcohol that
one non-alcoholic beverage of the establishment's choice (usually tap
water) is made available free of charge.  It's not unusual for clubs
to break this rule, and I suspect (though I'm not sure) that it only
applies during the hours that they're licenced to serve alcohol.

	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 12:20:38 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 10:25:26 PDT
Subject: Re: House Nation paused for a comeback

Jon Drukman sez:
> 
> john lee supposes:
> 
> >What is happening (as I mentioned in a previous post), is the
> >summertime blues.  Happened last year, and it looks like this years
> >gonna be a repeat.
> 
> i don't know where you got this notion from - cos last summer was
> *incredible*.  at least, i went to dozens of parties with vibe to
> spare.  let freedom rave, where's waldo, basics all spring to mind
> instantly.  i bet if i went through last summer's sfraves archives i'd
> remember some more.
> 

Don't even need to look; the raves in the park alone make last summer
tough to beat.  The spring Equinox was *awesome*, and Come/Unity had
some of its best towards the fall/winter.

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
            "Unk!  Bull manganee" - Tarzan, lord of the jungle
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 12:23:01 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 10:56:34 -0700
Subject: kool electric billboard hacking spotted on 101 South!


on sunday night I was driving back from Palo Alto --> SF and noticed a
big electric sign that reads "Hillsdale" in huge illuminated letters...
except that all the letters except "LSD" had been extinguished....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 12:29:18 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 10:42:27 PDT
Subject: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation


have to second the recommendation of FREAKY CHAKRA -- Exist Dance
Records, heard it over at Casa UVC/Twitch the other day and after
listening to the first two minutes, I'd buy a copy in a flash (but I
have no phono preamp, urgh)

Bob



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 12:31:08 1993
From: gmosheh@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gregor Mosheh)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 12:00:03 MDT
Subject: Wicked


There was something by the Wicked crew on Sunday held at Grey Whale Cove,
just south of Pacifica. A friend and I went and talked to the land owner for
a second. He told us that Allan (sp?) of Wicked had lied to him to get
the lsire rented.

Make that "site rented" - damned thing!

Apparently, he had been told that after a seminar, some 300 people were
coming out to the beach for some dancing. A seminar? Only twenty or so
people showed up to top it off, and the land owner was a bit upset to be
lied to and that he asked his workers to stay late and all.

I dunno what the whole story was, but guys, this doesn't forward the scene
at all, doesn't make our general non-acceptance any less. I know how hard
it is to get a site, but lying for it just isn't very cool.

- Hazrat Gregor Mosheh

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 12:37:40 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 11:08:42 PDT
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

- Greg Earle sez:
> 
> Sorry to be the out-of-touch old fart bastard barging in here to upset your
> little Peace, Love and Unity vibe, but maybe I missed the passing of some City
> Ordinance against the playing of Techno at a Rave, perhaps?  Because if not,
[...]

I have no comment here, I'm just wondering if anyone is going to flame
Greg for being a "newbie". :-) :-)

-H-

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
            "Unk!  Bull manganee" - Tarzan, lord of the jungle
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 13:04:47 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 11:16:56 PDT
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

well...
i wear black a lot
or at least darker clothes
and i would like to have brighter clothes
not because its trendy, but darker clothes
just dont look as good in some situations
or at least not as pretty

but as far as cocaine/speed re occurring.. well its happening
people want to dance forever to house music and they use
drugs to keep them awake to do so?

(maybe if not good as music were out there, then people
would stop dancing and start talking more often? :)

personally.. i like nice diva'd tracks, they make me happy
i dont dance long and hard to them, 
but i feel happy
that, or throw some nice brass over it, a sax or trumpet or something
and it just makes me happy...
and i dance because im happy

taylor on the other hand, makes me dance because his music
is high energy, and he plays it so it runs around inside me
and lights my soul on fire

funny thing you should be disagreeing with a comment joe made
and then talking about taylor's great set
since joe kept saying 'i really wish taylor were here' all saturday night
 ,
dana

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 13:09:26 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 11:26:07 PDT
Subject: Re: Fwd: Long partially-rave-related article

>Hmmm.. i've always thought that the word "gay" just means homosexual,
>rather than homosexual male, so "gay community" seems a perfectly
>reasonable term.  I've also seen the acronym LesBiGay...
>
>But maybe I'm just out-of-touch or ignorant.  Or maybe usage differs
>between the UK and the US.  The word "queer" suggests that there's
>something odd, or wrong, about it, which is why i'm slightly surprized
>that the gay community would adopted it....

gay is usually used to refer to gay males
lesbian wanted to be separated because of facing different problems
LesBiGay is dorky in my opinion, it sounds a lot like Lesbian to me
and it just sounds icky.. but thats just me

yes, i agree that queer is a strange choice for that reason
but meanings of words change often
i believe "nice" used to be synonymous with "foolish"
hell many people believe it still does,
but.. the point being...

and for now, its a term that shocks people
and thats whats is desired

 ,
dana

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 13:15:27 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 11:04:46 PDT
Subject: Re: Fwd: Long partially-rave-related article

I didn't think that article was homophobic at all.  In fact I know it wasn't,
there was a part that tipped you on to the fact that the writer was gay/queer/
fag, which are or are not offensive, Roy, depending on the context and person
using the words.  It's kinda like black people calling each other nigga vs.
a white person calling a black person nigger in anger (and racism).  What
started out a an outsiders derogatory term was coined by insiders, at first
sorta tongue-in-cheek but later becomes acceptable language.  Same with
lesbians calling each other dykes.  Anyway, I thought the article was both
humorous and informing, though not rave related.  I wouldn't have wanted to
miss out on that info so I'm glad it came through.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 13:44:36 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:02:39 -0400
Subject: Connection II .... just got my tapes


SfRavers...
I just got through the Connection II tapes from boccibob....WoW! This is 
serious music. Man, your DJs put it together sweet & fine; perfect. Thanks,
Bob (lost your address) and glad to contribute towards Malachy's fund.

Now can somebody sorta kinda tag some DJ names to the different tapes/sides?
I'd really like to know who's spinning (from 3000 miles away, I read about
your scene daily through a glass screen...and now have heard your music :) 
and it's awesome).

I'd be interested in any comments on the tapes, or a target date of the 
threads on the list so that I can hunt C II info down in the archives. Peace.
harry

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 13:49:53 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:06:17 EDT
Subject: Re:  I MAGI NATION

 > why not set a legal trap for them? (christian fundo's)  they shouldn't
 > be legally *able* to shut you down over the use of the term "pagan".
 > this country has a constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion, it
 > was 1 of the main reason the damn country was founded in the first
 > #@&%$#*%&'ing place....then, when they shut you down, you sue their
 > britches out from under them for denying your constitutional rights
 > and for depriving you of the business you would have been doing.

It would be really easy to do, too. Hold two parties, in similar
locations. Advertize one as christian and the other as Pagan, and see
which one gets hassled. Invite news reporters :).

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 14:42:52 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:27:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Tilt-a-Whirl Update

If anyone went, I was the one giving away blo-pops and smiles. Giving
is fun fun fun.

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 14:44:00 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 12:26:38 PDT
Subject: Re: House Nation paused for a comeback

Howard reminds us that
> the raves in the park alone make last summer
> tough to beat. 

So does *anyone* know what the status with GG Park is?  According
to my very indirect sources, there is nothing preventing these
from happening right now; it's just that noone wants to be bothered 
with the hassle of doing it.  I would donate $$ & time to see get
it going again, or at least have *one*.  It would definately help the
scene to have these happen once in a while.

- leg of eel

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 14:50:12 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 12:35:48 -0700
Subject: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

I completely agree with you about the "regurgitated disco" shit that's being
played. What is this fascination with the 70's. Can't anyone come up with any
new ideas? The styles that I've seen lately are EXACTLY what I wore in high
school! As for the music it was DEFINATELY better 2 years ago. I've been 
listening to some of my older tapes and it blows anything away I've been
hearing lately. BRING BACK TECHNO!!!
Rox

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 14:55:46 1993
From: laura@usl.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:11 EDT
Subject: Where's the techno (was Re: the state of the Rave Nation)

Instead of quoting Greg and everyone else's discussion on "where is the techno" 
I'll just ask a few questions about the music in the San Francisco scene.

Here's the deal.

I am a confirmed hardcore headbanger/hard acid junkie/trance head from the East 
Coast.

I am coming out to SF for a visit in August, and am, well, to be blunt, a bit 
*worried* about the music.  See, my only exposure to house music has been 
really cheezoid stuff played at the Loft in Boston, and at the Limelight in New 
York (back in 1989 when they played house and not techno there).  I really 
didn't enjoy it much.  And then I read all these posts about how no one in San 
Francisco likes stuff faster than 130 bpm, and then I heard parts of the 
Gathering, Connection, and Vision tapes, plus I have all the Twitch vinyl 
thingys . . . and I can't say I'm truly thrilled with what I am hearing.

So, here's a sampling of what I'm into.  If anyone could take this list and 
give me a clue as to whether there is anyone or anywhere in SF that would get in
to this sort of thing, let me know.  I figure if I find someone who enjoys what 
I love, then they can serve as a guide to the SF house music scene, and so can 
help me find something there to love, too.

	o  My all-time favorite track (right now . . . my tastes do change) is
"Gravitational Arch of 10" by Vapour Space (on Plus 8 records, Canada).  It 
starts out with about 3 and a half minutes of tingly no-beat sparkles, 
punctuated by long buzzy almost siren-like notes.  Toward the end of the 
no-beat section a very industrial sounding hammer noise starts a beat, and then
the drums and hats kick in and we're left with about 135 bpm of firm rolling 
beats with lots of loopy spacey bloopy noises over the top.  Toward the end 
there's a few ambient breaks, too.

	o A recent new fave is "Brainkiller" by Azid Force (on Superstition
Records, Germany).  This is a truly PHAT acid trance track, clocking in around 
150 bpm.  It features some of the same "loon" sounds that 808 State used in 
"Pacific," and a few male vocal samples ("increase the voltage" - like from a 
movie or something).  Very trippy Poly-800 and Jupiter 6 noises.

	o "Mind Flux" by Nico (on ESP Records, Belgium).  This starts out with 
vibrating buzzy chords, and then huge a sweeping sonic "wooooomh" noise (like 
the first half-second of the "Two Tribes" air-raid siren, piped through a deep 
reverb*) signals the start of the driving 145 bpm beat, with burbly vibrating 
notes over it.

	o "Mastermind" by Influid (on Influence Records, Germany).  This one 
could be considered hardcore (unless you are like Lenny Dee, in which case you 
would consider this trance).  It runs around 160 bpm, and the use of vocal 
samples is creative enough to give you a head rush.  The track starts out with 
long chords with a sped-up sample from The Orb's "Blue Room" (the wah-oh-wah-oh
wah wah wah), and then breaks into hard acidy mayhem, with various swirly
melodic breaks.

So let me know what DJs to look for, where to go record shopping, what clubs
and parties to try, and the like.  I don't EXPECT to get what I get back here
at home, I just want to find something new that I'd like given my current
tastes.  I really don't dig disco or wailing divas (or much vocals at all in 
the music).  I did hear Lee An spin when he was East in June, and enjoyed his 
set (I noticed that his and my taste overlaps a bit . . . he played about 4 or 
5 records that I own and love) . . . see you all soon.

Peace and respect,

Laura

*Thanks to my friend Ed Horch (DJ SLiP) for the help with this description!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 14:56:48 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 10:27:52 PDT
Subject: Re: House Nation paused for a comeback

> 
> john lee supposes:
> 
> >What is happening (as I mentioned in a previous post), is the
> >summertime blues.  Happened last year, and it looks like this years
> >gonna be a repeat.
> 
> i don't know where you got this notion from - cos last summer was
> *incredible*.  at least, i went to dozens of parties with vibe to
> spare.  let freedom rave, where's waldo, basics all spring to mind
> instantly.  i bet if i went through last summer's sfraves archives i'd
> remember some more.
> 
> Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.
> 

You said it!  Last summer was the shit!  This summer can still redeam itself though.
I say more undergrounds, less bullshit.  I'm almost ready to totally give up on
clubs and just reduce my raving to YSH and the FMR.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 15:00:32 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 13:55:51 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Track listing???

Does anyone know what the tracks are on Garth's CD?

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 15:11:04 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 12:51:59 PDT
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

Howard:
>- Greg Earle sez: 
>> Sorry to be the out-of-touch old fart bastard barging in here to upset your
>> little Peace, Love and Unity vibe, but maybe I missed the passing of some 
>> City
>> Ordinance against the playing of Techno at a Rave, perhaps?  Because if not,
> [...]
 
> I have no comment here, I'm just wondering if anyone is going to flame
> Greg for being a "newbie". :-) :-)

I would have flamed him for expressing himself like a pompous condescending
asshole, except that I've done my share of whining about the very same 
things.  All I'll say is that anyone who goes to raves *just* for the music 
is bound to be dissappointed.  

- leg of eel
 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 15:32:40 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 20 Jul 1993 13:20:43 -0700
Subject: Re:  Wicked

Yes, lying isn't very cool, but neither is taking second-hand hearsay
at face value.  Geoff White posted extensively on what actually
happened at Grey Whale Cove, and lying wasn't any part of it, although
assault and destruction of property by the site manager seem to have
been.

My rule of thumb for dealing with scene rumors was stated years ago
by my friend Wheezer:  believe half of what you see, and none of what
you hear.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 15:41:17 1993
From: ambient@netcom.com (Joseph Rice)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:08:18 PDT
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

Greg Earle posts:
 
> Sorry to be the out-of-touch old fart bastard barging in here to upset your
> little Peace, Love and Unity vibe, but maybe I missed the passing of some City
> Ordinance against the playing of Techno at a Rave, perhaps?  Because if not,
> then this may be the most asinine thing I've ever read on this (SoCal-Raves)
> list.

Perhaps this arise from a difference in definitions of "techno."  I wa 
speaking of a fairly narrow genre of hard (not buzzsaw hardcore) techno that 
is defined by a lack of melody, lots of bass, and it's quantized to hilt to 
prevent any swing, syncopation, or soul.  I suppose one could use the term 
techno in a general sense to include progressive house (what Taylor mostly 
plays - trance, in my opinion, is more flowing and lies between ambient and 
progressive), hardcore, house, and anything electronic.  In that sense, then 
of course it's what you hear at raves.

I was only expressing _my_ opinion, as you were later in your post when you 
slagged the SF DJ's and most of the music at LA Togather.  It would seem a 
mite hypocritical to flame me for my opinion and then go on to criticize the 
"disco" or non-techno you heard at LA Togather (or did I miss the ordinance 
where they outlawed the playing of anything except techno at raves =)  )

You did bring up some good points, and I won't argue that the scene has taken 
a dive with the replacement of E by crystal, but I think it's not quite as 
hedonistic as Disco was.

And what do you have against peace, love and unity?

joe


-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 15:47:44 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:49:18 PDT
Subject: Re: Where's the techno (was Re: the state of the Rave Nation)

laura@usl.com sez:
> 
> I am coming out to SF for a visit in August, and am, well, to be blunt, a bit 
> *worried* about the music.  See, my only exposure to house music has been 
> really cheezoid stuff played at the Loft in Boston, and at the Limelight in New 
> York (back in 1989 when they played house and not techno there).  I really 
> didn't enjoy it much.  And then I read all these posts about how no one in San 
> Francisco likes stuff faster than 130 bpm, and then I heard parts of the 
> Gathering, Connection, and Vision tapes, plus I have all the Twitch vinyl 
> thingys . . . and I can't say I'm truly thrilled with what I am hearing.
> 

Laura,

You probably don't have to worry.  I come from an industrial music
background and I find a lot of the music here both innovative and,
well, in the right state of mind, quite mindwarping.  There are some
house tracks which will pull out your mind, laugh at it, play
basketball with it for a while, and put it back.  (paraphrasing
someone else there...anyone remember who?)

There are also a number of SF DJ's who play quite the killer hardcore
set.  If you like, check out DJ's Ghost and EFX while you are here.
They're probably more like what you are used to.

For a real neat experience, check out Spun and Carlos.  Spun is one of
the best DJ's I've ever heard, and Carlos is probably the most
concentrated bit of good vibes on the planet.  His style is unique, as
well. 

See ya,

-H-


p.s.  If the wailing diva shit starts, take off for a while... I
usually find that leaving for 1.5 hrs.  or so does the trick.  It's a
good time to chill.

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
		Love the music...it will love you back.
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 15:51:01 1993
From: ROCKMAN <cmkoski@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 16:05:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Need Help...

I know this is a rave list and I don't want to break the flow here, but I
am in need of an internet address for the group They Might Be Giants, or
if anyone knows if I can access TMBG through some network, let me know.  I
am starting a fan club and I need a cheap way of communicating with these
folks...


ROCKMAN


##############################      
########              ########   COME TO CANADA -- CHECK OUT OUR BEAVERS! :)
########     _/\_     ########
########  _|\|  |/|_  ########   ALL VISITORS WELCOME!!!
########  \ CANADA /  ########
########   /__  __\   ########   FOR TRAVEL INFO, CONTACT:  ROCKMAN
########      ||      ########
########              ########   @ INTERNET:  CMKOSKI@THUNDER.LAKEHEADU.CA
##############################



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 16:32:37 1993
From: Alan Michael Parry <brit@ravel.udel.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 17:01:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Fwd: Long partially-rave-related article


On Tue, 20 Jul 1993, Dana Watanabe wrote:

> >But maybe I'm just out-of-touch or ignorant.  Or maybe usage differs
> >between the UK and the US.  The word "queer" suggests that there's
> >something odd, or wrong, about it, which is why i'm slightly surprized
> >that the gay community would adopted it....
> 
> yes, i agree that queer is a strange choice for that reason
> but meanings of words change often
> i believe "nice" used to be synonymous with "foolish"
> and for now, its a term that shocks people
> and thats whats is desired

To begin with, You dont have to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual to be "queer."
Anyone who is different and is disempowered by or sexist, racist,
patriarchal society is "at risk" of being labeled "queer."
For those who feel disempowered and marginalized by current social
structures and wish to fight back, Queer has become a word of
re-empowerment, a form of active resistance. 

:fluid




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 16:41:42 1993
From: SHALAKO (technokachina) <sscoen@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:11:47 EDT
Subject: respect to greg

*sorry for the massive cross-post*


all my support greg. 

to those those people on the west (and east) coasts, who consider themselves so
trendy, and up-to-the-second current with what is being played in england, or
whatever, that they look down on people who listen to "techno" instead of
"disco" or "house"... i wish i could slap you in the face.

disco is a massive step backwards. it can be fun, but that's all it is. it gets
soo old, soo fast.

house is fun too. i love house. especially sobering, trancy house. but the more
it becomes disco, the less it becomes current. you disco/house snobs are close
minded, and very hipocritical. i'm having a good little chuckle at your expense.

the word 'techno' covers many genres. house is a type of techno. so is disco. 
so look down on yourselves for listening to techno...

IMHO: i think the latest tip of techno coming out of england is crap. its disco.
and it's souless. it has no substance and is useless for mental and spiritual
growth.



trance and hardtrance is where its at, brothers and sisters. techno for your
mind, body, and soul.

just a little reminder to the trendoids in my homeland of cali...

peace to the true party people. you know who you are.
shannon



p.s. the hardkisses are coming again! yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah boy! TRANCE.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 16:42:34 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:04:11 PDT
Subject: Track listing???


From what I've seen, they appear to be roughly every 10 minutes, with
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

Basically they're just there to be able to skip to a later point in
the disk easier.

(unlike the Skinny Puppy live disk which is a single continuous track,
which is VERY annoying when you are trying to get to a particular
section of the recording)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 16:46:33 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:51:54 PDT
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

> Greg Earle explicates:
> 
> >From 3:00 - 5:30, all we heard (for the most part) was the same old
> >tired formula: shufflebeat House rhythms, sometimes to the point of
> >mind-numbing tediousness (can't these people change the kick track
> >even *once* in oh, say 10 minutes, just for variety's sake??), with
> >some other repetitive motif laid over the top, and no keyboards to be
> >found anywhere.  At one point, I heard horrible sax warblings over
> >The Rhythm, and at another point I heard some god-awful George
> >Benson-esque noodleroni Jazz guitar, fer chrissakes!
> 
> geez, at least you didn't get the full on Wailing Diva stuff.  count
> your lucky stars.  i can NOT understand the appeal of that stuff at
> all.

John, I'm sorry I just couldn't let this go by :):):)
Im'mean I just can't believe that you don't have one inch in your heart
for a wailing diva?  Actually maybe you need to get some inches of another
part of your anatomy into a "wailing diva" to REALLY be able to appriciate
this fine art form. :) :} ;-}


> don't judge an
> entire scene by them.  in fact, don't even judge them by that one set.
> i've heard stuff by jeno that curled my hair and stuff that made me
> want to throw rotten eggs at him.  ditto for garth.
>

Are you saying that Jeno and Garth have gone disco happy?!

My man, you MUST be smoking the pipe, right? :)
How can you say that?  John, I gotta take you back home
to Baltimore, we gotta hang out together...
 
> 
> besides, the best trance record ever made (which also has some
> seriously funky hip hop elements) has just come out and it was
> produced by a guy from marin, so pay some respect to your northern
> cousins.  and go out and buy this record - it's called FREAKY CHAKRA
> and it's on Exist Dance Records (which is based in LA so you can feel
> good about buying it).  it will rip your head off.

I'm with you on this!! When can I hear it !!! :)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 16:48:37 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:22:44 EDT
Subject: A Wicked deception


The waves at Rockaway Beach in Pacifica were pretty trashy. I'd been
out there once before when there were beautiful surfable waves, but
today it looked like no one was getting any good rides. The onshore
wind wasn't helping any either, and would make it difficult to get
out there. So I didn't go in.

Greg Mosheh and I were out there to kill a little time before
Tilt-a-Whirl, or whatever we could find. Having the ocean in my blood,
I couldn't resist checking out the surf :). 

Imagine our pleasant surprise when we called the Wicked line, and
found out that they were setting up not five miles down the coast!
Cool beans! We be-bopped over to Taco-Bell, got some munchies, and
headed down the coast.

After a couple of detours, we found the Gray Whale Cove parking lot.
It didn't look like many people were there, and it was getting late,
so we figured we'd see if anyone showed up before we laid down $5.

A man and a woman were working there. Both of them seemed quite
friendly, and glad to have us show up. I asked if I could peek down
and see who's here, and they said sure, just don't cross the rope
because the cliffs are crumbly.

I couldn't see much, and Greg and I decided we'd hang around a little
while to see who showed up. We had a very pleasant talk with the park
operators. They seemed interested in the goings on, and I described
the House Movement, how people come together to dance and hang out,
how we're like a big family, how it gives kids positive things to do.
I also pointed out how we are good about cleaning up, and how it might
even be a regular site should things work out okay. I said it's
practically impossible to get all the right permits so we hold these
events on private land when we can.

The lady seemed kind of curious about it; perhaps she'd be interested
in participating?  The man asked me where I'd heard about it and I
said they put out flyers and have a phone number. He said something to
the effect of "That's weird," and asked for the phone number.

We gave to him. He called it up, and began to get pretty agitated. He
told us that he'd been lied to, that Allen had told him "We have about
300 people at a convention, they're eating right now, and we'd like to
hold a dance at the beach." 

He'd made arrangements to keep the beach open late and had called in
the extra employee (who had other plans) to help work the crowd, which
only turned out to be around 20.

He got more and more agitated, as people often do when they are
successfully deceived for someone else's gain. He sent the woman home,
and went to fetch another worker (Scott?) to immediately shut down the
party. He told me he'd contact the other rangers, and it'd be a cold
day in hell before they (meaning Wicked I guess) hold another party on
park property.

We left just about then. Geoff has filled you in on the rest.

			  -----------------

I feel pretty badly about it, for several reasons.

If I had kept my mouth shut, it would not have happened. The party
would have had to leave in 1/2 hour anyway, and no one would have been
the wiser. No one would have been mad. No bad scene would have
happened. Happiness and good scenery would have prevailed. I screwed
it up. Blame me for that.

I feel badly because it was such a beautiful site, and it is now lost,
and the scene is damaged in ways we don't know yet.

But mostly I feel badly because I was projecting positive energy,
putting things in the best possible light, and something really
horrible happened because of it. The air of family and acceptance and
"Be you, and we'll love you for it." has a lot to do with why I love
the scene, and the people in it. I told those people that. I never
mentioned things our society views negatively. For a minute, it seems
those people wanted to go down and join in! That's how positive I was.
And yet ugliness resulted. This teaches me a lesson contrary to that
in my heart. To what should I listen if I cannot even trust myself?

Very confused...

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 16:49:08 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 20 Jul 1993 13:33:33 -0700
Subject: Re:  Where's the techno (was Re: the state of the Rave Nation)

Not even the C II tapes can supply the feeling of what the SF music
scene is like when it's good, Laura (OK, well if played through a big
system with bass bins, that's another story :).  There is plenty of
junk being played, but there are many many excellent DJs and a
plethora of styles.  If you don't like the sonic weather, wait half
an hour and it changes!

It's true that SF DJs are fairly BPM-constrained; aside from Goa Gil
I rarely hear anything above 135 BPM.  But just because SF is mellow
does NOT mean it doesn't KICK.  It certainly does!  From the old-style
vets like Moonpup to the up-and-coming like Buck, from the wild intermix
of salsa, hiphop and straight funkytechno (Carlos) to the deep-deeper-
deepest house (Doc Martin), to the over-the-top acid buzz (Markie)
to the smooth and energetic (Shobhan) . . . well you get the picture.

No question, each coast has a different flavor.  I've learned a lot
by being exposed to some of the best of both (although my heart's
with the SF spectrum for sure).  I think everyone should form their
own opinions and go for the gold where they find it, but it's really
important to keep your ears open for those great sounds that might
pass you by if you only listen to what the opinion leaders say.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 16:52:47 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 15:13:00 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: XDZebra Review #34

I'm trying to get a feel of readership here.  If you read these reviews
regularly, send me your comments.  Also, if the rave mailing lists I send to
could send me counts of how many people are on the lists, I'd appreciate it.

XDZebra Review #34

        Addiction
        266 Delmar Ct.
        Salt Lake City, UT 84101-1817

When in Utah call the T A S T E hotline 801-461-3375.

Trying to find these releases?  Try Ear/Rational Music:
FAX 805/893-8553, Phone 805/564-4949, email angst%cs@hub.ucsb.edu

Back issues are available from me by mail or by ftp'ing to soda.berkeley.edu.
They're in the pub/sfraves/music directory.

This is all my opinion.  Flames against a review are pretty pointless, so
don't bother.  Let me know if you have any other comments though.

BPMs provided courtesy of Eric Pederson's BPM calculator for the Sparc.

XDZebra Reviews may be reproduced without permission under one condition,
they remain intact and unchanged.  If you publish this in print, mail me a
copy via "Addiction".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Review #34 Contents:
The Best of Acid Jazz Volume 2
A Compilation - Dorado
Om
Technosonic Volume 3 - A Journey Into Trance
Jaydee: Plastic Dreams
Saint Etienne: Who Do You Think You Are
Garth: No Rest For The Wicked


The Best of Acid Jazz Volume 2
Acid Jazz: JAZID CD66
1  108  03:52 The Brand New Heavies: Don't Let it Go To Your Head
2  103  07:09 Diana Brown & Barrie K. Sharpe: The Masterplan (Original Ext Mix)
3   85  03:43 Janette Sewell: Peace and Love
4   96  05:00 The Humble Souls: Watch My Garden Grow
5  120  06:33 A-Zel: Jazz Jupiter (Da Scat Mix)
6   91  03:43 Mother Earth: Hope You're Feeling Better
7  119  04:31 Corduroy: E Type
8  105  06:30 Snowboy feat Noel McKoy: Lucky Fellow
9   99  05:58 Pure Wildness: Ain't No Use (Mo' Soul Mix)
10 101  07:25 Snowboy feat Anna Ross: Girl Overboard
11 107  03:51 Rose Windross: Living Life Your Own Way

Comments: This comp had a few surprises.  I think I was stretching more for a
big band sound when I bought this.  What it is instead is a much smoother jazz
and upbeat soul mix.  Tracks like A-Zel and Corduroy still boogie hard and
"Hope You're Feeling Better" sounds like Hendrex resurrected.  Snowboy took
some getting used to, both tracks seem really drippy, but after subsequent
listens, they grow on you, slow dance and nice to hum along with.  The Humble
Souls' track has a severely groovy flute line, capable rapping, and a Groove
Garden like backing.  My favorite track on the disc is "The Masterplan" which
I suspected to be a boring duet, but is cool thumper with an acidic guitar
line.

Summary: 8/10.  Not strictly dance, but a lot of listenable tunes.  Some are a
bit in the mush arena, but most are on the far side of cool.


A Compilation - Dorado
Dorado: DOR DOR008CD
1   96  06:48 D*Note: Scheme of Things
2  116  05:18 Impressions: Giant Step NYC
3  103  05:28 Sally's Knockin': Jhelisa
4  120  07:24 Sunship: The 13th Key
5  117  06:10 D*Note: Rain
6   61  05:49 Monkey Business: Ain't No Fun
7  125  07:01 Circle in the Round: Devil of Cruelty

Comments:  Dorado came under high recommendation from the retailer that I
bought it from, but it falls short in my book.  The majority of the tracks are
undanceable and vocal laden.  "Giant Step NYC" is cheaply done with yet
another Martin Luther King speech with a hip-hop beat in the background.  The
only track that I really enjoy is "The 13th Key" by Sunship.  It is way in the
acid jazz arena with a groovin' piano and sax.  I threw this down at a recent
house party and the crowd just loved it.  "Devil of Cruelty" is also jazzy,
but more harsh and less dancy.  It is good listening, but not a floor pounder.

Summary: 5/10.  Capable work, but not in my alley.  Sunship is a shiner
though.


Om
C&S Records: CS 2002-2
1  139  05:05 Peace of Mind
2  140  06:37 Virtual High
3  142  07:46 Are You Experienced?

Comments:  The smoothest, trippiest, hard-trance that I've ever heard.  Tetsu
Inoue takes you on three journeys through a landscape of sound that leaves you
gasping when you return to silence.  Flowing, lush synth lines move with high
momentum over a beat that grows and fades from and into nothing.  The only
problem with this Om EP is that it is too short.  I would love an entire album
of this stuff.

Summary: 9/10.  Fantastic and domestic, this is beautiful yet distinguished
trance.


Technosonic Volume 3 - A Journey Into Trance
Sonic/Instinct: SNC2022-2
1  125  06:38 Gipsy: I Trance You
2  130  07:08 Slackjaw: Drive My Body
3  130  06:43 Oxy: Sensual Motion
4  131  05:13 Transformer 2: Just Can't Get Enough
5  130  04:02 Eccentric: Far Out
6  130  04:32 DLM: Inversion
7  102  05:25 Sleepwalker: The Pink Zone
8  108  04:09 DLM: We Believe
9  122  03:29 Model 3000: Save Your Jazz
10 132  06:17 Transformer 2: Fruit of Love
11 125  05:44 Atomizer 3: Siren's Cry
12 120  08:45 Supertronic Co.: Heaven Knows Sunrise

Comments: For the first part of this comp, a very cliched version of trance is
presented.  The standard sweeps, the standard rhythms, nothing unusual really
grabs me.  Then after DLM's yet-another-use-of-the-Blue-Room-sample in "We
Believe" Sleepwalker kicks it in with a very cool slow cruncher, "The Pink
Zone."  DLM turns around with the very cool "We Believe".  Model 3000 is more
of the same.  The "Fruit of Love" is a remix that wasn't on the original
single and is quite good.  They managed to throw a breakbeat into "Fruit" to a
good effect.  "Heaven Knows Sunrise" is the only other track of note, but only
in its structure, since its instrumentation isn't anything unique.

Summary: 6/10.  Domestic, but a bit boring.  A few stellar tracks, but hardly
a decent representation of trance.


Jaydee: Plastic Dreams
Epic: 49K 74992
1  129  03:05 Radio Edit
2  129  10:14 Long Version
3  129  06:58 Trance Mix
4  134  08:37 Jaydee's Groove Mix
5  136  06:36 Single Minded People

Comments: Although I knew that this has been highly played out, I bought the
domestic single to check out the remixes.  The "Radio Edit" is disposable of
course, and the "Long Version" is a nice expansion on the original.  "Trance"
isn't too different from the original, just a bit more rhythm.  "Groove Mix"
is really cool in the fact that it expands on the original organ line and then
jams out with it.  I really enjoyed listening to this the first time, but when
I threw it on the floor, people got bored of it after a while.  "Single Minded
People" has a catchy vocal and interesting backing, not bad for Jaydee.  I
hope we see more from him in the future.

Summary: 7/10.  Cool but lacking remixes of a fine original.  Nice extra
song.


Saint Etienne: Who Do You Think You Are
Warner Bros.: 9 40910-2
1  115  03:52 Who Do You Think You Are (Album Version)
2  124  07:01 Who Do You Think You Are (Strobelights & Platform Shoes Mix)
3   98  08:07 Who Do You Think You Are (Quex-Rd)
4   76  04:54 Hobart Paving (UK Single Version)
5  124  07:47 Who Do You Think You Are (Nu Solution Mix)
6  124  06:59 Who Do You Think You Are (Saturday Night Fever Dub)
7  110  04:12 Your Head My Voice (Voix Revirement) (Non-Album Track)
8  124  04:40 Who Do You Think You Are (Radio Remix)

Comments: The weirdest remixes Aphex Twin has done yet are contained within.
Not that it is unusual in their sound, but both of his tracks stick out like
sharpened steel spikes in the middle of a plush pink disco theme park.  Saint
Etienne does make music well, but the non-Aphex tracks are a bit too sugary
pop for me.  Aphex Twin once commented that he can take music he doesn't like
and remix it into something he does like.  This is apparent here and all Aphex
fans should go after this single.  I like the "Your Head My Voice" track more
than the tad bit boring "Quex-Rd" remix.  Aphex novices should investigate his
larger works first, for most people are unlikely to understand what is going
on when they run across these two tire-rippers.

Summary: 6/10.  Cool Aphex, syrupy Saint.  However, at a domestic price, it is
somewhat of a good value.


Garth: No Rest For The Wicked
Luv Phaser Productions: LPP-01
1  125  15:05
2  126  16:39
3  125  12:26
4  125  09:58
5  124  12:12

Comments:  One of the top DJs in the USA, Garth has finally made his way into
mixing a CD for Luv Phaser Productions.  This is Luv Phaser's first release
and production is top notch, probably due to the influence of Twitch on the
project.  The only other DJ mix CD that I have to compare this to is Digital
Boy's "Punizone Continua" which was utterly amazing in technique.  Garth's
technique isn't full of tricks, but his transitions are logical and flawless.
His "sound" is definitely a lot funkier and pleasing than most of the DJs I've
heard tapes of or in live performance.

Summary: 8/10.  Lack of a track listing is a big downer here.  I've always
felt more credit was due to the artists than the DJ.  LPP should do a Jeno
disc next.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 17:42:08 1993
From: megatest!kermit!preiter@uu2.psi.com (Pete Reiter)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:42:28 PDT
Subject: music, music, music, music....

I've been reading these music posts from the east coast and LA and I'm a bit
confused about something. I have come across several references to music
being referred to as trance that is obviously quite a bit faster than I am used
to. When I think of "trance" music, I think of music with a steady hypnotic
beat that lulls you into a trance. I can't imagine this being possible at
140+ BPM. Can someone clear up my confusion?

And in response to these music style wars... Let's all remember to keep an
open mind. There are many different styles and tastes of music. I personally
have found many times over that some style of music that I totally dissed a
year ago has become a favorite today. Hard fast beats are good when you find
yourself suddenly unable to expend enough energy. Trancey hypnotic stuff is
good when you just want to get lost in yourself in the wee hours of the 
morning and housey disco stuff is wonderful whe the sun is coming up, you've
been up all night and you need a little bounce to get you going in the morning.

Rather than immediately rejecting some style of music you don't find at all 
appealing, try to think of a time, place or headspace when it might just be
the perfect groove. Then check it out again when you reach that space.

						Pete

P.S. When you go to flame an idea that you find objectionable, remember that
there's a person attached to that post. I find all this hostility to be very
unravey and a bit wearying.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 17:45:39 1993
From: zephirus@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:22:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Tilt-a-Whirl Update

	I waz there. I had the sisters of mercy t-shirt on. I don't remember
seeing you though ( i probably saw you but just not giving out the blo-pops :-)... had a good time, good vibe, good fun...
		later,
			-z

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 17:47:48 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:16:27 PDT
Subject: Re: jonesing for techno


I'm not sure what style I'd call a 'typical' Spun set (except 'great!')
but he's usually 100% diva-free.  If I go to Deep Space it's to hear
his sets, which usually last much of the night.  

I just wish Oasis would turn down their bass amps a bit so it wasn't
always compressed and distorted.  It's OK as an occasional texture but
constant BRRRRRM BRRRRRM BRRRRM is tiresome.  Less volume or more amps, 
guys; I can't hear the music.

Is anyone in the Bay known for playing breakbeat?  I haven't heard more
than one BB track in a row from anyone, and I'm often too hyper to settle
down into hard trance right away.

// g

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 19:02:33 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 20 Jul 1993 18:09:50 -0700
Subject: Re:  A Wicked deception

One thing I wonder -- who was this "Allen" who talked about a convention?
This may be a case of "telephone" -- where an attempt to explain what
Wicked wanted to set up in 'layman's terms' ended up being misinterpreted.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 19:10:08 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 20 Jul 1993 18:05:55 -0700
Subject: Re:  A Wicked deception

Don't sweat it, Sean.  Clearly what has befallen you is the classic
"never let a good deed go unpunished." What you discovered/fomented
at Gray Whale Cove with the operators there was eventually going to
come out anyway.  Better to find out that it's not the right place
to be before something even worse than what happened transpires.

Geoff and you and the Wicked posse did your best to salvage something
from this misbegotten weekend.  The planets are out of phase, who
knows what the deal is.  It happened, we learn what we can and go on.
As old venues are closed off, new possibilities come up.  The scene
is evolving because it *must*.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 19:38:29 1993
From: ambient@netcom.com (Joseph Rice)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 18:19:19 PDT
Subject: Re: respect to greg

> to those those people on the west (and east) coasts, who consider themselves so
> trendy, and up-to-the-second current with what is being played in england, or
> whatever, that they look down on people who listen to "techno" instead of
> "disco" or "house"... i wish i could slap you in the face.

This may or may not have been aimed at me, but I would never denigrate anyone 
for the taste in music.  I'll admit my comment about the Genesis Project was a 
bit off-the-cuff and I should have said "I didn't care for the style of hard 
techno they played in SD as it seemed lifeless to me."

No style is better than any other.

finis.

joe

-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 19:52:37 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 18:47:56 -0700
Subject: Re:  Imagination

>jesus, brian.  all i did was call a spade a spade, which to me is quite
>positive.....FOR I BELIEVE W/ ALL MY SPIRIT THAT THERE MUST BE SYNERGY
>BETWEEN NATIVE CULTURE & TECHNO FUTURE CIVILIZATION.
 
I have met you, have had a couple conversations with you before on this,
and know that you believe this.  However I don't know if this was so 
cut and dry as to be able to call "a spade a spade" - i.e., I am left
with a small amount of feeling that there was something that could have
been done to avert this, to help guide Richard in the right direction
by people who know what that direction is.  Yes, as things stood he was
doing far less than he should have to see that it was going to happen and
still be respectful to all sides.  But to say, "He's messing up royally, 
I'm outta here" is also not good.

>  1st, naivete is no excuse for exploitation.  that richard wishes well is
>not the point.  the quality of phone talks for several hours between richard
>& i underscore that.
 
Okay, good, at least you know the root of the evil was that Richard was
hoping to make money.  I will admit that Richard may have had a fair bit
of ego attached, and that that was causing disruption.

>  2nd, there is a long tradition of hippy & new age events raising
>explosions within the indian community for 30 years.  they just don't want
>to hear about instant vision quests....anybody who really understood their
>tradition would know that.  but most indians encourage thwe growth of rave
>like events as positive for changing western culture.  but u can't be
>instant initiates.

The what we need is some sort of guidelines or something to show us what
we as members of the SF House Nation can do to bridge the gap with Native
Americans.  We need people who are intimate with both cultures to guide
us, and if we stumble on our way to point us in the right direction.

So, what would be the right way for us to come together?  I am very much
interested in forming a bond between the two cultures, so much so that 
I'd be willing to help put together a party if I knew I could do it right,
respectfully, and with their full co-operation.  Do you think there's a
way?  

>richard kept talking about this being the revival of wovoka's ghost dance.
>after you've had your people machine gunned for dancing, you too might
>undertstand native people's anger over claims like thjis.
 
If I were Richard I would have had a lot more respect than to claim this
party was a "second coming" or anything.  It's like writing a short story
and walking into a church and proclaiming you had written "Bible II - the
sequel"  :):)

>does the insight & new-found liberation coming from trance, empathogens &
>dancing negate any previous cultural transformations?

Absolutely not.  Raves should negate nothing other than negativity (ha! a
triple negative, ma! I finally found a true triple negative! :), and people
of all spiritual beliefs should be able to come to raves and feel like
they can feel something from them.  I have a great post from alt.rave around
here somewhere on "Christian Raves" in the UK... 

Peace, Love, Unity, and RESPECT

	Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 20:23:04 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 19:17:51 PDT
Subject: Re:  A Wicked deception


> From techno.Stanford.EDU!SFRaves-request@cdp.igc.org Tue Jul 20 19:03:04 1993
> Return-Path: <techno.Stanford.EDU!SFRaves-request@cdp.igc.org>
> From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
> To: csc@pilot.njin.net, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re:  A Wicked deception
> Date: 	Tue, 20 Jul 1993 18:09:50 -0700
> Content-Length: 219
> X-Lines: 3
> Status: RO
> 
> One thing I wonder -- who was this "Allen" who talked about a convention?
> This may be a case of "telephone" -- where an attempt to explain what
> Wicked wanted to set up in 'layman's terms' ended up being misinterpreted.


From what I can tell so far, it was all a big misunderstanding.
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

So this thing got all out of whack.

To the best of my knowledge the words convention or anyone eating were never mentioned.
The word seminar was mentioned however.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 20:23:36 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 19:12:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Aurgasm busted

I said
>Maureen, I don't think there's any significance in CyberFest being the 
>only party not getting busted - this was just a sweekend of collossal bad
>karma for the scene in general. 

to which JSLee replied 
>Yes there is: Their shit went off and was well planned and coordinated with
>the city/county of SF.  There is PLENTY to be said about that.  Like it or
>no they had their collective shit together (and I am by far no fan of Cool
>World).

What I was replying to in Maureens post was the implication that Cool
World had arranged some sort of "deal" to get the other parties shut
down.  This I wouldn't ever really consider as a possibility.  And yes,
they did happen because they were well organized - perhaps the only
positive thing that could be said about having money be your motivation :)

	Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 21:17:22 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 20:11:40 -0700
Subject: 70's Disco sucks!

>Are you saying that Jeno and Garth have gone disco happy?

I must say that I have heard music played by the above dj's that I think
is a little to close too 70's disco for my tastes. For example the Janet
Jackson/Luther Vandross thing on the Vision tapes. I almost never listen
to tape #5 because it's too "mainstream" or "soft" for my tastes. But what 
do I know? I like that tweaky electronic/industrial/tribal/trancey techno!
As a matter of fact the music at the last FMR just didn't turn me on until
it was almost light outside.

rox

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 21:23:13 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:47:48 PDT
Subject: Re:  Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

wow...damn!....so much/so little...where to start...i guess that BB 
provides a good point to leap from here....

------------
Maybe everyone should have swallowed 
their pride and just gone to Cyberfest, braved the dust, and showed the
new recruits what we're REALLY about....
------------
this is what i did, i went to cybercircus with two friends of mine, both
who are going to be spinning at this rave in the southwest I'm valiently
trying to organize.  1 friend had never been to any rave whatsoever,
and the other has been to a few, is and has been into house prior to the
advent of raving, but has been to few raves also (3-4 i think).  we were
pleasantly surprised that they in fact did have the carnival running,
literally, and nope, they were NOT busted.  

we got to the big line (TM) and were agast.  then, 10-15 minutes later
we were in, much less agast obviously....it wasn't that bad (at ~1AM).
my friend brian did not have his 3 bottles of h2o taken away, so I
don't know about this:
-------
For your $20 or $25 you got: an enormous line,
lengthy wait and continual confusion on the way in; your water bottles
confiscated;
--------
What is this bullshit I keep hearing aoubt people taking away water bottles 
at events ?
---------

nobody confiscated any water from us and it took little more than 10-15
min. of standing in this "line" which was more like a crowd.  we weaseled
our way as close as we could get and then had to wait ... let's say 15 min.
not my favorite, but survivable...then we went in......


.........WOW.............so MANY people....this was cool, IMHO.  nobody,
not even wicked get the kind and amount of (PC word alert:->) "cultural
diversity" that was there.  these people got tons of people that never
go to raves to go.  sure that can be unfocused, but who wants to be 
focused all the time?  not me.  i can stand a little variation, and this
was definitely variation from your average rave....


so yeah, it was too dusty, and the visuals were somewhat lacking; but
it was ok, i didn't hate it, and i didn't NEED to hate it, i just didn't
make it into something it wasn't.  my partner avery said "shit, this is
WORTH $20.00".  then he asked me about the rave scene....i told him i'll
take him to a FMR to get the other end of the spectrum, & explained that all
the rides, etc. are a tag-on etc.  he figured as much...the music was 
CRANKIN' by the way...we heard buck spin some really good shit.  another
avery quote "where can i find these rekkidz?!?!"  he dug it.....

a raver is born  [sorry, couldn't resist....so i'm corny**...so what?]

1 last note on this:
-------------
The concept of setting up in the parking lot of Cyberfest is... on the surface
a very cool idea, but I don't like the "point" it implies.  Look, promoter
infighting will kill the scene faster than any amount of speed or DJ worship
will.  Doing something which can be construed as upstaging is in bad taste...
I expect more from a high class operation like Wicked.  This is gang-like.
							^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-----------------------
it sure is gang-like...get off my corner muthafucker....SF is MY turf...
BULLSHIT!  upstaging sucks and it WILL wreck the (any) party...we have
enough enemies.  so the cool world people like to throw huge mondo events.
BFD, you know?  no need to diss them to a burnt cinder, alot of people
enjoyed their party.  it sure won't stop me or anyone else from throwing
theirs and no, i wouldn't want to throw a cybercircus-like event, but...
BUT...I DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!!

so my (semi-rhetorical) question is:

is live & let live something we can do or not?

-=jack=-

"jack is in the house and you can smell it for blocks
 his shit is stankin' worse than a pair of dirty socks..."

copyright 1993, Tenderloin Waxx



[i'm *so* corny?]

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 21:32:47 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <wing@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 21:12:06 -0700
Subject: Re: kool electric billboard hacking spotted on 101 South! 

In message <9307201756.AA14857@netcom3.netcom.com> you write:
>
>on sunday night I was driving back from Palo Alto --> SF and noticed a
>big electric sign that reads "Hillsdale" in huge illuminated letters...
>except that all the letters except "LSD" had been extinguished....
>

Yup, I've seen this at various times coming up 101.  At first it really
threw me for a loop -- I didn't see anything but the three bright
letters and I'm like, what the ...? :)

ben

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 22:57:30 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 21:48:25 -0800
Subject: water/e [was Re: Fair Fare?]

from a message earlier today:

>A nightclub owner makes his money by selling the drug of choice at
>nightclubs, alcohol. The problem arises because the drugs of choice at
>raves are illegal, so the promoter is denied to oportunity of selling
>the rave-goies what they want to buy.  If drugs were legal, a rave
>promoter could sell good E and acid at the bar a good price, and still
>do well out of it.  And it'd even be in his interests to give away
>free water, so people could do as much E as they wanted.

considered liberalization of drug policy strikes me as a Good Thing
(harm reduction, benefit enhancement, and individual liberty) but i
think the comment about E in the paragraph above may be dangerously
misleading.

dehydration is not the only danger in taking MDMA - while staying
well-hydrated seems to be sound advice, i wouldn't figure that drinking
plenty of water means you can safely take as much as you want.

you can read about possible dangers elsewhere; in the meanwhile note the
advice of some users that "less is more" - with increased doses, bothersome
side effects go up, ecstatic states of mind go down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 23:04:27 1993
From: jon@lurnix.com (Jon Lebeck)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:50:27 PDT
Subject: Techno disc question....


     Anyone out there know of any discs with content similiar to
"wakin' up a dead planet"?   I have searched far and wide for
real "techno" music (not that wimpy house stuff played at most
raves and found on 95% of so-called "techno" discs) and this is
one of the only discs I've ever found that almost completely hits 
the mark - the Germans evidently call the type of music I'm refering 
to Breakbeat/Acid techno.  Anyone know what I'm talking about?  

     I have sensed great discontent among many people on the net and
at raves regarding the trend towards music which could be termed
"painfully slow" and filled with unoriginal material (samples from
older songs, or more irritating, themes from the 70's).  

    I don't know how outlandish my views are compared to those
of you reading this, but I see the music played as heading towards 
lower and lower energy/creativity stratas.


                                  Jon.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 23:12:16 1993
From: randyb@kalpana.com (Randy Bias)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 21:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: music, music, music, music....

>P.S. When you go to flame an idea that you find objectionable, remember that
>there's a person attached to that post. I find all this hostility to be very
>unravey and a bit wearying.
I'm glad to see it's not just me.  The last few times I've gone through the
SFraves postings I wind up "getting uptight."  It seems like there is a lot
of miscommunication going on.  There is also a *lot* of stuff that should stay
in private e-mail.

Just my $.02.

Take Care,

--Randy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 23:15:01 1993
From: laura@usl.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:52 EDT
Subject: EC hardcore/trance defs.

>From: megatest!kermit!preiter@uu2.psi.com (Pete Reiter)

>I've been reading these music posts from the east coast and LA and I'm a bit
>confused about something. I have come across several references to music
>being referred to as trance that is obviously quite a bit faster than I am used
>to. When I think of "trance" music, I think of music with a steady hypnotic
>beat that lulls you into a trance. I can't imagine this being possible at
>140+ BPM. Can someone clear up my confusion?

This is the "New York" point of view.

	Hardcore
		earbleed -- PCP Germany and KNOR Rotterdam stuff.  Very
			little musical content.  160-220 bpm.
		regular -- 160-180 bpm, distorted and dissonant, stuff on
			the Industrial Strength label fits in here.

	Trance 
		hard -- 140-160 bpm, but rather melodic.  The "trance" comes
			from the "phatness" of the sounds and the repetition
			of various patterns within the music.
		regular -- 120-140 bpm, even more melodic, and is probably
			what you were thinking above when you said "trance."
		acid -- of any degree of hardness and fastness.  In a way
			you can think of it as acid house for the 90's, but
			sped up and with more elaborate sounds in it (not
			just a 303 + 808).  Lots of trippy phat bloopy noises,
			like from 303's, Poly-800's, Jupiter 6's, and the like.

	Etc.
		house, progressive house, tribal, breakbeat,old school acid
		house (like 1988-style, also known as "Detroit").

>Rather than immediately rejecting some style of music you don't find at all 
>appealing, try to think of a time, place or headspace when it might just be
>the perfect groove. Then check it out again when you reach that space.

This is good advice . . . my post stemmed from fear that if I, say, moved from
the East to the West I'd totally lose contact with the music I have now.  I
don't want to lose my hardcore and acid trance, but I DO want to find other
new things to love too.

Laura

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 20 23:56:59 1993
From: Kyle Farrell <orb@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 22:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Fwd: Long partially-rave-related article 

Hey!  That was from an article in the Stranger a couple of months ago...
I've got that issue sitting in my room somewhere, although its unlikely
that i could find it.
The article was written by *Dan* Savage, not Don, if anyone really cares!
:) 
-Kyle




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 00:04:16 1993
From: laura@usl.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 01:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Techno disc question....

>     Anyone out there know of any discs with content similiar to
>"wakin' up a dead planet"?   I have searched far and wide for
>real "techno" music

I've never seen this disc, but I can whole-heartedly recommend the following
comps.  I don't have the exact names, but rather the names of the labels that
put out the comps, as each comp was put together to showcase the label,
rather than being a sort of "rave hits of the 90's" thing.

	Harthouse Frankfurt -- this includes the phenomenal "Acsperience I"
		by Hardfloor
	Dance Ecstacy 2001 -- everthing from pretty trance to breakbeat to acid
		to hardcore
	ESP -- and thisis even a domestic in the US!!!  From the people who
		gave us "Megatone" and "Triptone" (The Nighttripper).  Includes
		some Cosmic Baby stuff, too.
	Industrial Strength -- if you want an intro to American Hardcore, this
		is it, a dozen or so of IS's tracks from last year.
	Labworks Germany -- I've never seen this, but I have tons of Labworks
		12" . . . so if you are looking for German acid trance this
		is it for you.
	FAX (Compilations 1, 2, and 3) -- the best of from what I consider to
		be the 4AD of techno.  Lots of trance (of varying degrees of
		hardness) from Frankfurt.

>but I see the music played as heading towards 
>lower and lower energy/creativity stratas.

Not out East.  Come to New York.  :-)

Laura

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 00:29:31 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 21:03:11 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: music, music, music, music....


> When I think of "trance" music, I think of music with a steady hypnotic
> beat that lulls you into a trance. I can't imagine this being possible at
> 140+ BPM. Can someone clear up my confusion?

Hmmm... I view trance as anything (well not just *anything* :) that has that
repetitious nature to it without really seeming repetitious.  That driving
groove that settles into that one spot in your soul, that energizes those 
certain circuits in your mind that turns everything off but the music and 
the dance.

If this happens to occur at 140 bpm, then it's still trance to me -- although
I'm more likely to call it hard trance.  I find hard trance (especially hard
acid trance) to be some of my favorite music.  But then I tend to be rather
hyper to begin with :)

A recently acquired Goa Gil mix tape was clocked in at ~135 bpm.  Stuff I
could easily trance to!


-----------------------===<<O>>===------------------------------------------
-bS							"A happy face,
brians@ios.convergent.com				 a funkin' bass,
A lowly raver without a glowstick.			 for a loving race."
------------------------------------------===<<O>>===-----------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 00:34:04 1993
From: John Turpin <turpin@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 22:53:47 -0700
Subject: Coming Out (of the closet)




>Is anyone in the Bay known for playing breakbeat?  I haven't heard more
>than one BB track in a row from anyone, and I'm often too hyper to settle
>down into hard trance right away.

Ahhhhhhh! I can come out of the closet now. I am not alone anymore. There
are other people out here in SF who like the fast stuff. Yeaaaah!


>No question, each coast has a different flavor.  I've learned a lot
>by being exposed to some of the best of both (although my heart's
>with the SF spectrum for sure). 

I "grew up" under the east coast spectrum and I still love it. I learned to
dance to techno/hardcore/breakbeat all > 135 BPM. The dj's back east 
actually get off on trying to see how fast they can carry the groove. They have
definitely broken the speed limit (threshold for human butt movement) on
many occassions. My former roomate DJ Steve from Raleigh, is well known
for playing totally mind blowing sets. (Mystery 159 @ +8 - Yeah!)

Which reminds me of an interesting comment Bob made at lunch one day..
That people from the east coast tend do dance more with their arms and
hands, in contrast to people from SF, tend to use the whole body. I guess
I can agree with this (Generally speaking).

My best rave experience was at a place called the Trim Shop in Greensboro, NC.
The term PEAK was redefined as EXPLOSION that night. When the solo horns
kicked in from "The Horn Track - Egyptian Empire" at peak time :), I truly
was lifted from the planet earth. The vibe there was sooo intense (definitely
different than SF's great vibe ). I have never felt that kind of "intensity"
at an SF event. But then again, I have never felt as "welcomed" at  
events than in SF. 

I really like it when DJ's pay close attention to the "vibe" and try
to play off it. This requires the utmost in DJ skill, as sometimes
DJ's can get lost in the attention that is centered around their table.

I was totally overwhelmed with culture shock after moving out here for
the summer last year. I did not know the SF scene was so different.
But I have learned to like it for what it is (I am out here for good now).

You know what would be nice...

A list of the DJ's in the SF area and the kind of music
a typical set of theirs includes. (Can this be done without
a flame war on techno music styles?)

Dance Hard everyone... Goodnight!

johnny t


ps. Anyone going to CCRMA. I am persnoally really excited about this.
I missed it last summer. Rob and Tamara: this would probably exclude
YALL seing as how hard YALL flamed me last Friday night while I was
trying to enjoy some of that "weird shit" (read: Experimental Computer Music)
that was playing on the radio :)!



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 00:46:03 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (leah)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 23:44:00 -0700
Subject: Re: EC hardcore/trance defs.

I would just like to say that I love the word bloopy and I hope you
all continue to use it in your descriptions.

=)

always wasting bandwith, leah



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 04:37:02 1993
From: hyland@netcom.com (Tim Hyland)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 3:38:06 PDT
Subject: Re: Fwd: Long partially-rave-related article

Roy Badami wrote:
> I didn't really know what to make of that article.  To my ears, the
> language in it sounded grossly homophobic, though it was difficult to
> see what message the subject matter was trying to make.  I'm left
> completely confused about the authors opinions...
> 
> Maybe I'm just out of touch, but I was under the impression that the
> gay community (in this country at least) found the words "queer" and
> "fag" deeply offensive...

Good point, Roy.  The author of the article was actually very
gay-positive, if not gay himself.  Queer has come to be a preferred
moniker of many gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, disenfranchised, and
unempowered people.  One of the main reasons Queer has become popular
as a term to refer to gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, disenfranchised,
and unempowered people is that gay, lesbian, bi, transgender,
disenfranchised, and unempowered is way too many syllables.  This is a
problem we had at MIT when the on-campus queer organization (GaMIT --
Gays at MIT) decided that 'gay' didn't include everyone.  We finally
decided to officially name the group Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, and
Friends at MIT, or "GaMIT with a silent LBF".

The gay community got into lots of internal trouble when trying to
lump everyone into the "gay" category.  Too many people felt left out
by the largely middle-class, caucasian, gay males who seemed to think
they ran everything.  Queer is a simple way to include everyonewho
self-identifies as being queer, whether or not they are gay, lesbian,
bi, transgender, disenfranchised, or unempowered.

Many of the middle-class, caucasion, gay males who think they run
everything in the gay community violently oppose the term queer, but
it has really caught on with the younger, hip, politically active
crowd in the "gay" community, partially due to Queer Nation, an
ACT-UP-like direct action group that formed and disbanded a few years
ago.  

The cool thing about the Queer moniker is that you don't have to be
gay, lesbian, bi, trans..., etc., to call yourself queer.  I know
quite a handful of self-avowed heterosexuals who who self-identify
with the "queer" label. 

Anyway, it is not meant to be homophobic, even though that is often
the first impression of "gays" and straights alike.  Unlike "nigga"
which is sometimes used in the African American community between (and
only between) members of that community, we queer-folk welcome
everyone to use the term because it is so all-encompassing.

But now that I'm digressing, this is starting to sound a lot like the
thread started a year ago when I used the term "disco queen," but I
digress further.  Please take this as an invitation to use queer (and
disco queen) in any and all positive situations describing the "gay"
community. 

Share and Enjoy,

Tim "Queer Disco-Queen Extraordinaire" Hyland  :-)



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 04:44:25 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 03:56:54 -0700
Subject: GG Park raves....

        Okay, it looks like many of you are jonesing for the GG Park events.
I was witness to a few of the events transpiring around the beginning of
summer as people tried to get them rolling... 

	Basically what happened was, one of the key people involved in getting
permits for last year's parties went back again this year to get permits for
the entire summer.  In the interval between last year and this, there was a
significant change in sentiment about these parties.  Last year he simply got
a $25 "picnic" permit each week.  Well, since up to a thousand people would
show up on some weeks, and loud music was being played, the park commissioners 
decided it was not a picnic but instead a concert.  Actually, a very prudent 
and justifiable decision.  This increased the permit from $25 to $300 PER WEEK,
and also stipulated a host of other factors like, a $500 security bond would
be required (which could be revoked at any time if drug use was ever observed
 - and who *didn't* smoke one last year?) and also the site would have to
be approved for use at 10am each Sunday it was to be used (i.e., no, you can't
use it, it's too cold outside).  There were a host of other factors, too.

	After some dealing and bargaining and presentation of letters of 
recommendation from a couple well-placed authorities, the person trying to
get the permits was able to get the park commisioners to back down on a 
couple of the requirements, but the $300/week and $500 security bond held.
Also, we would NOT be allowed to solicit contributions at the event itself,
(a brilliant solution was reached - "frequent raver" cards you'd buy on
haight for $20, which would give you 10% discount at tweakin' and hopefully
we could convince promoters of other parties to give big discounts on 
admission with these cards... anyways) and the music had to be shut off by
6pm.  *sigh*.  even with all these constraints, these people wanted to see
the GG park parties happen.

	However, the permit application came before the SFPD, and was flatly
refused on the grounds thatone of the applicants had forged a signature or
committed some other form of offense before on a permit.  The permit was
reapplied under another promoters' name but by then the damage was done.

	A couple of times attempts were made to throw parties on Ocean
beach and around there, and a couple of times it went off, but a couple other
times various parts of the sound system would fail to show due to, well,
what I call "stoneycism".  Anyways, the people who were really pushing for
the parties to happen got frustrated and embittered by the whole process,
and gave up.

	So in a manner of speaking, the slate is clean for a new group of
people to try.  But the going will NOT be easy, and I have serious doubts 
that we could get something going before... September :(  but it seems worth
a try.  Tomorrow (er, today for most of you)  I'll call the people I know 
who were in charge of all this at the beginning of summer and see where they 
left things....

	But I will try.

	Brian

	

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 05:25:47 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 04:41:39 -0700
Subject: Re: A Wicked deception

	Okay, I have a little insight on this I should share with you
all too, so that you know the whole story.

	I have talked to the owner of Grey Whale Cove before.  In my
searching for sites and belief that leaving any stone unturned was a mistake, 
I got the number for the owner of Grey Whale Cover, a beautiful beach about
5 minutes south of Pacifica.  Here's the deal.

	(wicked@netcom.com, I hope you're listening!)

	The gentlemen, who is also on the State Parks and Recreation board
and in general one of the *big*men* in terms of setting policy (also is a
San Francisco city commissioner).  He leases the beach and surrounding hills
from the State as a privately-operated beach.  He has several rules he must
follow, but since the goal is to make it a money-making operative he has 
considerable flexibility in the nitty gritty details of the operation.  He
charges a strict $5 per person to use the facility... on a typical sunny
weekend maybe a hundred people will use the site, in the summer even more.
I believe it's also a nude beach....

	In March 1992 the Full Moon Rave was held there.  Basically,
Alan came down a day ahead of time and asked the person on duty (who
was not the owner but a manager) if he could come down and bring about
50 people "to look at the moon".  Supposedly music was not mentioned.
The manager on duty agreed to let them down if they would sign a
waiver disclaiming any injuries they may suffer (since they would be
there at a time it was officially closed).  What really happened was
about 1000 people showed up, overflowing the parking lot and calling
the cops in, who threatened to tow the people parked outside the lot.
By an interesting coincidence, the owner was staking out Candlestick
Park that night, waiting for them to show up THERE - and when he got home in
the morning he found that his own property had been the site!  He became
enraged - particularly when word got to him that someone had been charging
$7 at the foot of the walkway down to the beach, which he claims to have seen
none of.  He is (well, was) convinced that Alan (he knew his name, somehow)
had gotten away with $7,000 that night.  He fired the manager who let the
sound van down, and carried with him for a year and a half this grudge
against raves.

	Around June I called the number I had gotten.  I knew a little bit
about this story - I know they had gotten permission to use the site, since
it wasn't busted, but I hadn't heard his side of the story.  So I sat there
and listened, and he told me about how much he hated being lied to, about how
since he operates it as a lease from the state he can't afford to have bad
shit like this happen, and how we were shooting ourselves in the foot by
being illicit about it all.  A lot of what he said made sense, and I told
him there is another side to raves, about what I and a lot of people get 
from it, how because alcohol is absent there is very little violence, and 
while he was adamantly against all other drugs he understood when I told 
him look, kids are gonna try to take things to alter themselves no matter
what you legalize or banish, and I'd rather see them become peace-loving
and timid and introspective than aggressive or violent.  Anyways, at the
end of our two hour conversation he said "okay, well, you guys have messed up
once, but if you want to come back and try this out maybe we can give you a
shot.  But there are a couple things we'd have to work out first: it would
have to end around midnight, no later, and I'd have to charge $5 per 
person."  The $5 per person was really the clincher for me, because at the
time I was looking for sites as alternates to GG park, where we wouldn't
have to pay a lot of dough to use, and the closing at midnight really meant
only sunday afternoons would be viable. (at least at first - he said he's
still uncomfortable with it, and until he sees it done right he's not going
to be able to justify it to his superiors, to go all night).  I said okay,
I'm glad we've had this conversation, I hope to continue this line of
communication.

	Shortly after that I left for the East Coast, and I haven't
talked to him since returning.  I did tell Alan about my conversation
with the owner - however I think I should have impressed that honesty 
and money were the key issues with him, everything else was secondary.
I think had Alan simply come out and said the truth, things would have
been a lot better - or had he contacted me to talk to the owner even
better.  It's a shame more people didn't show up.  I completely understand,
don't condone, but understand the owner's reaction.

	So anyways, there might still be hope for reconciliation.  I will
call him tomorrow (ack!  another thing to add to me "todo" list!) and see
what I can salvage.  I'l have to rebuild everything I built in my last
conversation, but maybe SFRaves should throw something there (working within
his requirements) to show him that it can be done.  And I'm willing to bet
if two or three good parties can be thrown there, and he sees that it can
be a money-maker for him, he'll be a little easier about doing REAL stuff
there.

	The bottom line is, we can't assume our luv phasors are omnipotent.
It requires a lot of diplomacy.  but if we can befriend the right people,
the possibilities are endless.

Anyways, now to reply:

>I couldn't see much, and Greg and I decided we'd hang around a little
>while to see who showed up. We had a very pleasant talk with the park
>operators. They seemed interested in the goings on, and I described
>the House Movement, how people come together to dance and hang out,
>how we're like a big family, how it gives kids positive things to do.
>I also pointed out how we are good about cleaning up, and how it might
>even be a regular site should things work out okay. I said it's
>practically impossible to get all the right permits so we hold these
>events on private land when we can.

yes yes yes!  sounds like pretty much my conversation with the owner.
we need this positive reinforcement - kudos, sean!

>The lady seemed kind of curious about it; perhaps she'd be interested
>in participating?  The man asked me where I'd heard about it and I
>said they put out flyers and have a phone number. He said something to
>the effect of "That's weird," and asked for the phone number.

Hmm... I think it then began to click with the owner.  Like I said, he
knew the name of the guy who threw the Full Moon there was Alan.

>He got more and more agitated, as people often do when they are
>successfully deceived for someone else's gain. He sent the woman home,
>and went to fetch another worker (Scott?) to immediately shut down the
>party. He told me he'd contact the other rangers, and it'd be a cold
>day in hell before they (meaning Wicked I guess) hold another party on
>park property.

He could have easily meant ALL state park property, too... like I said, 
this is a Very Important contact to have in gov't.  I had vigorously
defended the people who threw the full moons, saying in the 10 months
I've worked with them to find sites they never demand money, only ask
for donations (okay, so that was stretching the truth, the only exception
being when it started at charter oak, and then it was the owner of charter 
oak who demanded the money no matter what... but, I digress).  He felt
deceived before, and deceived now, so who knows if he'll ever feel like
trusting a "raver" ever again.  *sigh*.

>I feel pretty badly about it, for several reasons.

>If I had kept my mouth shut, it would not have happened. The party
>would have had to leave in 1/2 hour anyway, and no one would have been
>the wiser. No one would have been mad. No bad scene would have
>happened. Happiness and good scenery would have prevailed. I screwed
>it up. Blame me for that.

Bzzzt.  wrong.  The truth should always get out.  I can't imagine he didn't
notice before you that there weren't that many people there.  Even if it
ended in dire consequences, you CAN NOT feel bad about telling the truth.

>I feel badly because it was such a beautiful site, and it is now lost,
>and the scene is damaged in ways we don't know yet.

Yes and no.  It's not lost, at least not in my mind until I contact the
owner.  We'll see.  

>But mostly I feel badly because I was projecting positive energy,
>putting things in the best possible light, and something really
>horrible happened because of it. The air of family and acceptance and
>"Be you, and we'll love you for it." has a lot to do with why I love
>the scene, and the people in it. I told those people that. I never
>mentioned things our society views negatively. For a minute, it seems
>those people wanted to go down and join in! That's how positive I was.
>And yet ugliness resulted. This teaches me a lesson contrary to that
>in my heart. To what should I listen if I cannot even trust myself?

Um... I'd like to write it up to chaos theory but that's cheating.  it's
simply a situation you couldn't have foreseen.  Sounds like the other
people there, though, were convinced somewhat.  Who knows.  

From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
>One thing I wonder -- who was this "Allen" who talked about a convention?
>This may be a case of "telephone" -- where an attempt to explain what
>Wicked wanted to set up in 'layman's terms' ended up being misinterpreted.

You say seminar, I say convention - the bottom line is, Alan misrepresented
the group of people who would be coming.  It's more of a white lie than
anything else - sorta like that santa claus exists - and had all gone as
planned it was close enough to truth that it may have become truth.  I've
done exactly the same thing as he before, simply because we don't have the
confidence in the term "rave" or "party" enough to use it.  Maybe we should.
Just like gays have become unafraid to use the word "queer".  

From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White) 
>SO I can tell that this guy was focused on the $$, Alan who had lost
>thousands on the weekend was focused on getting a groove going. He
>wasn't even going to make anything off of anybody coming. We told him
>200 -300 in an attempt to be honest about the numbers of people who
>would show up.  (last time someone told him 50 people to look at the
>moon. and several hundred showed.

>So this thing got all out of whack.

Again, this was the weekend of bad karma... of small miscalculations which
came back to wreck havoc on well-intentioned people.  *sigh*

>To the best of my knowledge the words convention or anyone eating were
>never mentioned.  The word seminar was mentioned however.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.  It wasn't represented as a rave, when it should have 
been.

	In a constant state of learning and understanding
	Trying to wrest wisdom from the jaws of defeat,

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 06:43:17 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:54:51 -0400
Subject: Evolution of the Tunes


With all this discontent over the music, I can't figure out *what* you 
all *want* to hear... I like what's being played right now (OK, no Janet/
Luther trax, I agree), but that's prob. because I'm an old house phreek
going back over a decade. We always feared that deep house would go Top-40,
with _Robin_S_ causing a major scare, but I never expected the underground
dance community to reject _real_ house (not "progressive house" - I would
hardly call System-7 (as good as they are) HOUSE). It appears that you
all are looking towards a more industrial sound? Do the Tressor comps
meet your expectations? And what's the problem with "wailing divas"? EVERY
time I hear Loleatta Holloway I just melt.... 
Peace
harry
(confuzed in connecticut)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 06:49:27 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:42:47 BST
Subject: Re: Connection II .... just got my tapes

>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:02:39 -0400, white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White) said:

  Harry> Now can somebody sorta kinda tag some DJ names to the
  Harry> different tapes/sides?  I'd really like to know who's
  Harry> spinning (from 3000 miles away, I read about your scene daily
  Harry> through a glass screen...and now have heard your music :) and
  Harry> it's awesome).

This list, to my knowledge, includes all the details that were posted
to sfraves.  Any errors in it may be mine, or may be due to errors in
the original posts (but please let me know if there's a more complete
list anywhere...)  The DJ's on sfraves posted playlists for their
sets... and in addition, Jon Drukman id'd some of the tracks in
Moonpup's set, so there's an incomplete setlist included...

[The sides "ForAll" and "Exists" refer to the mathematical symbols for
quantifiers -- "for all" looks like an inverted "A", and "there
exists" like an inverted "E".]

	Cosmic



----------

1. Circle

Scott Hardkiss (43 min)


2. Bullet

Scott Hardkiss (12 min)

Jon Drukman (unmixed) (31 min)
  Meat Beat Manifesto		I Got The Fear (Without Jack)
  The Shamen			Boss Drum (Twitch)
  Lemon Interupt		Minniapolis (Twitch)
  JFK				Here They Come Again (Brutal Mix)
  Sonic Solution		On The Move


3. Sharp

Jon Drukman (43 min)
  Eden Transmission		I'm So High
  Up Above The World		Straight Up Caffeine
  High Lonesome Sound System	Champion Sound
  Metropolis			Metropolis (analog)
  Outdance			Pump The Jumpin' (Deco Mix)
  Coco Steel and Lovebomb	You Can't Stop The Groove (Twitch)
  Shakedown Productions		Alhambra (Twitch)
  The Grid			Crystal Clear (Trimar Mix)
  Electrotete			I Love You (remix)
  Intermix			Monument (Twitch)
  Mental Cube			Q (Santa Monica Mix)
  High Lonesome Sound System	Testimonial

Moonpup (1 min)


4. Flat

Moonpup	(44 min)
?
  Coco Steel & Lovebomb		Feel It
  Jay Dee			Plastic Dreams
  Liberty City			Some Lovin'
  Jay Dee			Plastic Dreams
?
  DHS				Holophonic Sound
?
  TZ4
?
  Paradise Organisation		Prayer Tower
?
  280 West			Scattered Dreams
  LNR				Work It To The Bone
...


5. Dagger

Moonpup	(39 min)


6. Ddagger

Moonpup (17 min)

Lee (22 min)
  The Good Men			Give It Up
  Unomas			Escuchar
  Zeony Lee Experience		Love Energy
  Soul Sacrifice		Sacrifice Dub
  Paradise 3001			Beautification


7. Forall

Lee (45 min)
  Sublime			<white label--released before The Theme>
  Double FM			Sound of Amnesia
  La Camorra			Te Quiero
  Aquastep			Carousel (remix)
  Sound Clash Republic		Not For Sale
  K&M				Funk and Drive
  African Juice			<b-side of Congo Bongo>
  Original Rockers		Push Push
  Deja Vu			Never Knew the Devil


8. Exists

BLURrrr	(45 min)
  Monumental			Geera
  Organs Musical Clocks
    and Boxes			Still
  Transform			Transformation
  House Pimps			Zulu Nation
  Dance 2 Trance		Power of American Natives
  Blood Runs Dry		All of Your Mind
  Mukkaa			Buruchacca
  Dr. Atomic			Schudelfloss
  Robin S			Show me love





From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 07:50:23 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:33:09 BST
Subject: Re: EC hardcore/trance defs.


  laura> 	Hardcore
  laura> 		earbleed -- PCP Germany and KNOR Rotterdam stuff.  Very
  laura> 			little musical content.  160-220 bpm.
  laura> 		regular -- 160-180 bpm, distorted and dissonant, stuff on
  laura> 			the Industrial Strength label fits in here.


That's interesting.  In the UK, over the last year or so, the words
hardcore and techno seem to have changed meaning.  A year or two ago,
hardcore was an abbreviation for "hardcore techno", and techno was an
all-embrassing term, that included breakbeat techno.  

Now, hardcore and techno have come to refer to distinct musical
styles.  Hardcore quite specifically means junglism and darkness (ie
breakbeats), and techno encompasses pretty much everthing that doesn't
use breakbeats (trance and hard trance, acid, rotterdam techno, etc)

Many people will listen only to techno, or only to hardcore, and have
no interest in the other genre.  Personally, i'm more into techno than
hardcore, though I try to be open minded.  (That doesn't mean I don't
like my music hard -- I love hard techno.)

Old-style hardcore, from around 91/92 (?), just before breakbeats
really took over the hardcore scene (I'm a little fuzzy about the
timeline, 'cos this is before i was really into the music) still seems
to hold fond memories for most people, and I guess this is round about
when the UK scene started to split into separate techno and hardcore
camps.  I often wonder whether we're going to see a revival of the old
style hardcore within the next year or two.  Who knows, it might even
get the hardcore and techno camps talking to each other again...


	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 07:58:36 1993
From: djm@bedford.progress.com (Dave McMahon)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:55:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation


> From lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM Tue Jul 20 17:59:42 1993
> things.  All I'll say is that anyone who goes to raves *just* for the music 
> is bound to be dissappointed.  

Bzzzzzzt.

I was going to stay out of this silly JAOA (Just another opinion argument), but
I'd like to comment on this one statement.

The MUSIC was the whole reason I started going to these parties in the first 
place and it continues to the be the primary (almost entire) reason I still go.
I have many friends who join me on these spritual treks to warehouses where the
music is the TOTAL FOCUS of the evening.

My favorite environment at a party could be summed up in one word: STOP.

The STOP party that the TWR and Joint Ventures people through a few months
back was the epitome of a good party to me.  It had a handful of the best DJ's
in NYC and a sound system that would explode internal organs.  They had a single
light shooting from the center of the DJ area out into the crowd and from my 
perspective, at least, ALL were there for the MUSIC/DANCE and that's it.  
There were no poseurs or moonbounces or 30,000 Gigawatt laser super intelebeam 
rockets.

I could care less about how "cool" the lighting was (yawn) or how "big" it was
or how many moonbounces or T-shirt vendors or for that matter how many people
showed up.  

For me, the most incredible collective spiritual high is achieved in a room that
EVERYONE is completely entranced in the music and the MUSIC is there only reason
for being at that moment.


dave.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 07:58:42 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 06:42:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

	They say the olfactory senses (your sense of smell and 90% of your
sense of taste) are directly connected to the part of the brain which deals
with long-term memory - that is why when you smell, say, homemade spaghetti
sauce it takes you back to when you were young and mama would cook it over
the stove, or when you taste a slice of good French cheese it can remind you 
of your trip to Europe four years ago, or when you enter a smelly locker
room it reminds you of that guy you dated last week....all this mostly 
subconsciously.

	I'll be danged if the sense of hearing isn't also pretty closely 
attached to it.  Because most of the time, and I'd like to argue *every*
time, you hear a sound and ask yourself to evaluate it,your evaluation
is not just influenced by but is a product of your life experiences.
I'm not saying you like that Aphex Twin track because you used to like
to lay your head to the ground while your mom fired up her Hoover vacuum,
but I am saying that sounds, and music in particular, invoke something
deep inside people that is hard to express in words and almost impossible to
justify (again, the old phrase: talking about music is like dancing about
architecture).

	This is why I long ago gave up on reading music reviews.  I'd maybe
identify one or two people whose music tastes I trusted, but I never buy
anything before listening to at least part of it.

	So when matters of taste arise, there IS no comparison.  People have
different tastes in music, and those tastes are a product of our life's
experiences.  I never understood "house" music before I found myself on
a beach a year and a half ago, listening to the sound of the beat as it 
rolled over the grassy hillside, seeing the people bobbing up and down to it
and smiling, at 5am in the morning, and then seeing the sun come up.  I
didn't comprehend most 4ad music until I found myself lost in a one-way
love relationship, and Elizabeth Frazer's words made no sense and total 
sense at the same time.  I didn't even understand most rap until I was forced
to play it in my high school Friday lunchtime DJ stint every week, and found
why the kids dug it.

	Greg, you had a *marvelous* time at the Aphex Twin rave.  I seem
to remember most explicitly you discovering the double meaning behind
"XL" recordings.  I was discovering that on my own at Vision, a rave last
September, and while you probably would have hated the music it meant a
lot to me, it pulled me in and absorbed me, and the fact that I can relive 
that through listening to the tapes from that night has been a source of
joy for me.  Because most of the people out there, when they listen to
dance music, aren;t listening to it from a totally critical perspective like
you are perhaps used to - they may have bought a CD because they heard a
song from it at a really really good party, and they want to relive that
party through the music.  I'm not saying you wouldn't have come to like the
Aphex Twin had you not seen him live, but... try and imagine listening to
his music and blocking out all memories of that night or of any sentiments
you might have which sprung from that night.... does the music take you so
far completely away from yourself that your life experiences matter not?

	What I'm trying to say is... maybe you just haven't been exposed in
the right way, or maybe you just haven't let yourself be exposed, to the
types of music you profess to hate.  At the New Year's Gathering, when
jeno went from This Is How It Feels To Be Lonely (Renegade Soundwave remix)
into Acid Crash by Tyree, I was in very brutal mindfuck territory.  And
whenever Garth lays down his Triple-M track (sorry I don't have more info
on that, it's all I could grab from the spinning slab o wax) my brain gets
nicely diced... and to think someone would consider this disco is really
really funny.  True, there are times when the two of them venture into
a slower groove, with vocals, bass guitars and funky rhythms... but sometimes
it makes sense.  At the ComeUnity party, when Markie laid down the '93
remix of We Are Family after the healing ceeremony, and the crowd of 3000
people were holding hands and THERE, FOCUSED, and HAPPY, it's an incredible
feeling, the same feeling I got when the original version of that song was
played at the Mobile Grooves Posse party under a bridge outside of RFK 
stadium in Washington DC the night of the June full moon with the 20 other
friends in attendance.

	Simply put, there are a lot of people who find a lot to like about
a sugary lyric like:

	If you love is like a jail
	Then lock me up
	I don't wanna be free, no...

	Let me tell what I'm gonna do...
	If you hurt me, I'll get you!
	Do you hear me boy?

And yes, it took a significant amount of metaprogramming to get there - it's
just incredible to hear a really sweet loving voice after getting your brain
sent six ways from sunday.  Like coming home... again, experiences bring 
about this sentiment, not specific technical details about the music itself.

So anyways Greg, I still respect you, mainly coz I know your background with
nm-list and such, and I still love most of my Skinny Puppy records so I
know we have a bond there... but I just wish some people would open their
minds a little sometimes.  And I agree, not enough harder stuff is being
played, but if you think "house is killing the scene"... arg.

From: - Greg Earle <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
>While I'm shooting my mouth off and proclaiming that The Emperor Has No
>Clothes, chew on this one re LA ToGather: as far as I was concerned, in the
>space of one half hour, Taylor completely blew away all the utter crap music
>that I heard downstairs from 3:00 to 8:00, and that includes all your little SF
>God DJs like Jeno and Garth.  Check that - Taylor's *last 2 songs* blew away 5
>hours of regurgitated Disco and repetitive House boredom that we suffered
>through downstairs 

Well I've heard a tape of Taylor's set, and while I didn't get to hear him 
that night because I was a fugitive from the upper floors, I can say that
his style is VERY much like what I often hear up here, and very much what
I've heard Jeno and Rick Preston spin from time to time.  

>But first, a brief digression: on the way to LA Togather, PowerTools had LA's
>DJ Trance on from 1:30 to 2:00.  He played one of the best half-hour sets I've
half-hour?  what can a DJ build in 30 minutes???
>miss an event where this cat is spinning.  He manages to start off on a hip-hop
>influenced tip and smoothly mutates into hard Breakbeat and to straighter
>Hardcore, all without missing a step.

I see "DJ Trance" is quite aptly named, ehh?  :)

>Back to you West Coast denizens:

>From 3:00 - 5:30, all we heard (for the most part) was the same old tired
>formula: shufflebeat House rhythms, sometimes to the point of mind-numbing
>tediousness (can't these people change the kick track even *once* in oh, say 10
>minutes, just for variety's sake??), with some other repetitive motif laid over
....

Just a comment on the word "repetitive" - it usually means the listener 
doesn't like it much to begin with and thus don't spend too much time 
analysing it.  "I don;t like _____ music.  It all sounds the same!"  is
practically a mantra, so many people use it, and it's really really silly...


>From sscoen@Athena.MIT.EDU Tue Jul 20 14:13:43 1993
>*sorry for the massive cross-post*
>to those those people on the west (and east) coasts, who consider themselves so
>trendy, and up-to-the-second current with what is being played in england, or
>whatever, that they look down on people who listen to "techno" instead of
>"disco" or "house"... i wish i could slap you in the face.

it's not necessarily trendism - I dislike breakbeat and always have.  I 
dislike most things over 140bpm because few people know how to write rhythms 
at that speed which move me.  

ABOLISH LABELS!

>IMHO: i think the latest tip of techno coming out of england is crap. its disco.
>and it's souless. it has no substance and is useless for mental and spiritual
>growth.

"latest tip"??  I don't get it, to me the "latest tip" has had some really
incredible mindblowing headphuk stuff that has nothing to do with disco...
there's so much being released of such wide variety that "latest tip" is
a useless phrase.

>just a little reminder to the trendoids in my homeland of cali...
Sure thing, trend-setter shannon!

>p.s. the hardkisses are coming again! yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah boy! TRANCE.

Oh Scott and Robbie are SOOO trendy.  We were into them YEARS ago (sorry,
couldn't resist, the Hardkisses ARE the shit, and I think even you would
like them, Greg)


From: megatest!kermit!preiter@uu2.psi.com (Pete Reiter)
>P.S. When you go to flame an idea that you find objectionable, remember that
>there's a person attached to that post. I find all this hostility to be very
>unravey and a bit wearying.

Amen.  And same thing when you carry an attitude about other types of music.
I could say I returned the only Stereotaxic Device CD I ever bought but that
would be very mean....


From: ambient@netcom.com (Joseph Rice)
>No style is better than any other.
>finis.

Best way to end my post.  Thanks to all who listened....

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 08:23:32 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:14:13 BST
Subject: Re: water/e [was Re: Fair Fare?]


>A nightclub owner makes his money by selling the drug of choice at
>nightclubs, alcohol. The problem arises because the drugs of choice at
>raves are illegal, so the promoter is denied to oportunity of selling
>the rave-goies what they want to buy.  If drugs were legal, a rave
>promoter could sell good E and acid at the bar a good price, and still
>do well out of it.  And it'd even be in his interests to give away
>free water, so people could do as much E as they wanted.

  Robert> considered liberalization of drug policy strikes me as a Good Thing
  Robert> (harm reduction, benefit enhancement, and individual liberty) but i
  Robert> think the comment about E in the paragraph above may be dangerously
  Robert> misleading.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that.  I would never advocate taking any
drug to excess, legal or illegal.  I was just making a slightly tongue
in cheek comment that even if the club owners sole interest was $$, he
might still see it has being in his interests to give water away for
free.  A slightly tenuous argument, perhaps, but I didn't intend it to
be taken 100% seriously...

	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 10:24:13 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (leah)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:47:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Coming Out (of the closet)

I think people on the east dance more with their arms because the music
is too damn fast to get all the body movments it. =) =)  I like to do
a lot of footwork when I really get going but when I danced out there
I couldn't do as much because I would have killed myself after about
10 minutes... and it's hard to dance with your body on the beat since
most bodies can't move that fast. =)  I like the fast stuff too, but 
for me it has to be at the right time or it's a no go.

always, leah


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 11:03:50 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:12:53 PDT
Subject: Evolution of the Tunes

harry white explodes across the silver screen in a nonstop orgy of
bullets 'n' babes!!:

>With all this discontent over the music, I can't figure out *what* you 
>all *want* to hear...

tweaky electronic dance music.  stuff that sounds like a computer's
dreamstate.

>We always feared that deep house would go Top-40,
>with _Robin_S_ causing a major scare,

see, the thing is - i can't tell the difference between the best
underground garage house track and worst top 40 pop house song.  they
sound exactly the same!  the lyrics aren't any better, the melodies
aren't any more sophisticated...  i just don't get it.

>but I never expected the underground dance community to reject _real_
>house (not "progressive house" - I would hardly call System-7 (as
>good as they are) HOUSE).

i think there's major confusion over what exactly house is, these
days.  most people here in SF use the word house as shorthand for
garage house, which i think is the lowest form of music ever invented.
but then there's serious chicago house, which, when vocal-less, can be
really cool.

and what about progressive house?  ok, it's a shitty term, but it's in
widespread use.

>It appears that you all are looking towards a more industrial sound?
>Do the Tressor comps meet your expectations?

no, i think they're dead boring with a very few exceptions.

>And what's the problem with "wailing divas"? EVERY time I hear
>Loleatta Holloway I just melt....

i can't think of a more annoying sound.  a non-stop looped record of
babies crying mixed with fingernails on a blackboard would be
*infinitely* more enjoyable.

and it's not just wailing divas - i hate male soul philly vocal style
too.  icky ptoo.  get it outta my headspace.  i like electronic
mechanical repetitive sounds.  if the record sounds like there was a
human involved in it, i don't want to hear it.

(PS: Freaky Chakra is still godlike.  Buy it today.)

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 12:04:12 1993
From: Digital Druid <cyberpun@wam.umd.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 13:01:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: was Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation now: massive crosspost

On Wed, 21 Jul 1993, Dave McMahon wrote:

> 
> I was going to stay out of this silly JAOA (Just another opinion argument), but
> I'd like to comment on this one statement.
> 
> The MUSIC was the whole reason I started going to these parties in the first 
> place and it continues to the be the primary (almost entire) reason I still go.
> I have many friends who join me on these spritual treks to warehouses where the
> music is the TOTAL FOCUS of the evening.
> 

I have to agree here.  If it weren't for the music, i doubt i wouild be a
part of these parties.  That's why I get so bummed when I don't like the
music they are playing.  I have a small but close set of friends that i go
with, and it's really wonderful to share such an amazing time with them,
but most of the time I don't know most of the people there (though at this
point all the faces are familiar).

I could go alone to a party, and not know anyone and just dance by myself
(actually i prefer that) and enjoy myself just as much - as long as the
music was good.

ON the night of the 4th of july , there was a gathering outside one of the
local mu sic stores that went on way into the night.  Anyway, much of the
time there was only like 5-10 people dancing and around 100 or so sitting.
The music was amazing, so i was totally tranced out.  At certain times I
would open my eyes, or look up and find i was the only one dancing.  it
didn't matter because the music was within me.  

If the music that i like isn't played anymore , then I won't be at these
events anymore.  (that's not a closed statement...)
I like just about everything anyway...as long as it's not in excess.

digital.druid                                   	   imagine a world...
cyberpun@wam.umd.edu                      where all the information is shared
      With four...phongraphs, we can compose and perform a quartet
	  for explosive motor, wind, heartbeat, and landslide.   --John Cage



From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 13:09:50 1993
From: "Peter W. McKenna" <kosho@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:54:03 -0700
Subject: Friday July 23, Come DANCE at INVISION

INVISION the hottest dance music, from ambient to tribal to the funkiest
techno.  INVISION lights by REED, toasted video, cool multimedia lounge
and freedom from smoke and alcohol!  "I walked into the dance room and the
energy was so intense I felt like I was making love!"  Call 415 257-3882
for details and location.  And remember, Friday July 23, Come INVISION the
frequency of LOVE.
,

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 13:12:21 1993
From: SHALAKO (technokachina) <sscoen@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:32:51 EDT
Subject: ???

djm@bedford.progress.COM (Dave McMahon)
said:
>The MUSIC was the whole reason I started going to these parties in the first 
>place and it continues to the be the primary (almost entire) reason I still go.

amen. i go to raves to be physically alone. it's the 1000+ other spirits that i
want to be with.

to lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM, i would say:
if you're NOT going to raves just for the music, maybe you should try a club...


to each their own. my previous huge cross-post was all my opinion, of course.

shannon

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 13:17:20 1993
From: "Peter W. McKenna" <kosho@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:48:20 -0700
Subject: INVISION Conscious Dance Event posting

Come Dance at INVISION, the Bay Area's only conscious multimedia dance
event!  INVISION features the hottest dance music from modern dance before
midnight to ambient, tribal and funky techno after midnight, fantasy 
lights, toasted video, cool multimedia lounge all in a smoke and alcohol
free invironment.  Call 415 257-3882 for details and location!
"I walked into the dance room and the energy was so intense I felt like I
was making love!"

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 13:27:15 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 16:33:07 -0700
Subject: Wild Goose Chase

Friday night rave festivities started for me at 2AM, when Rob and Johnny T 

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 13:44:12 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 23:15:01 -0700
Subject: Insiders is THE Guide...

NEWS ALERT...NEWS ALERT...NEWS ALERT!

The reviews are in:
+++++++++++++++++++

Fred Says:"...but the Insider Report was basically an accurate name"

Neils P. Mayer emphatically said:"...we're supposed to pay $15.00"

Noah declared:"****Wow! sounds like what I do every night!"
++++++++++
YES!  Proof positive that the "INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE" is by far THE
definitive guide to parties here in the Bay area, because YOU said so!

Because of your overwhelming support and continued inspiration to make the
INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE the one to watch I will publish a second edition, for
FREE!
But look, please remember that publishing this "insider" info is a rare
opportunity to get a REAL peek at what goes on in the scene.  

Hell, it not only predicts your future, but provides important insider info
that you would not know about otherwise.  Because of this most rare feature
I must ask that you pay NOW for future issues by standard mail.  The price
is cheap $15 per issue (this is the second one so the $10 introductory fee
has been waived for your convenience, you can thank me later).  Remember
you will not be able to get issue 3 without the $15 fee.  As a matter of
fact, many of you already owe me at least that much for saving your butts
from driving to the desert/mountains/ski-resort/whatever, so relieve your
guilt and pay now!

Schmooze-a-thon:
I want to thank Fred, Neils, and Noah for their glaring approval of the
INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE.  Without you, I'm nothing!  xxoxxoxxxooo!

--------------------END INSIDERS RAVE GUIDE ANNOUNCEMENT -----------------------

This IS all for fun....puhleeze....;)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+             The rumors of my demise were, at best, virtual.              +
+                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com                       +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 14:04:44 1993
From: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 20:22:52 -0700
Subject: Laser ?

Driving in redwood city I saw this place half being built
that had a sign that said " A ton of Fun With A Laser Gun " and opneing soon.
Anyone know ? Is this a VR arcade ?
			- Delchi

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 14:45:50 1993
From: sids-ah@garnet.berkeley.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 11:40:26 -0700
Subject: raves

please e-mail me if there are any raves tonight 7-17.
also, please notify me of future raves.
Thankyou

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 15:13:34 1993
From: nrg@netcom.com (Ethan I. Miller)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 11:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tilt-a-Whirl Update

Howdy Gang,

Contrary to vicious rumours, Thunder Bay *is not* condemned.
Rather, it is the weekly home of Tilt-a-Whirl.
This weeks lineup:
  Tony
  Markie
  LaPaix
  Carlos
  Dutch

Thunder Bay, Berkeley, July 18, 8pm - Dawn 
Call 415.647.GRUV for more info.

See ya
nrg
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 15:21:13 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 20:36:14 -0700
Subject: water


	there *must* be a law on the books that a bar or dancing
	establishment needs to provide water free of charge...
	and make it a crime to purposely deny the flow of free
	water... like shutting down fountains.  it seems to me
	that at dancing kind of places, water is a necessity just
	like emergency exits are a necessity.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 15:27:28 1993
From: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 16:44:56 -0700
Subject: What ?!

What is this bullshit I keep hearing aoubt people taking away water bottles 
at events ? I mean.. Wait a second, what is the REASOn for this? Is
water suddenly illegal? Or is it a brand name thing. 
now Im not that numb, I know its a $$ thing, but lets be realistic....
How owuld you like it if you were refused to bring water other places. 
Surely there must be a way to stop this ? Besided getting a grip.

		- Delchi

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 15:34:04 1993
From: menchett@cs.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 13:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: STICKERS TO PROMOTE YOUR NEXT RAVE


Hey hey...

For your next rave, plug it shamelessly by plastering the town
with vinyl stickers!

Very cheap, and very high quality vinyl screen printed stickers.

Details: menchett@cs.unr.edu

$15 buys 100 2 color vinyl stickers!!




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 15:46:36 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 15:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

Just curious to find out if any of the people who drove out to the Sierra
ski ranch are back yet.  Some of my housemates (The MESS people) left with
their own sound system, so maybe they got it set up, who knows?  Were
there many people who actually did show up without calling?  Luckily, I
found out about the cancellation about 15 minutes before leaving. 
Pheeewww!  But maybe some of you managed to have a good time up
there anyway.  I look forward to hearing at least a few interesting
stories about it.

/////////{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<<<<<232>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\\


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 15:50:23 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 13:59:58 -0700
Subject: Re:  "House Movement Cookbook"

And of course the House Movement Cookbook Gopher for online access!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 15:57:10 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 14:02:36 -0700
Subject: Re:  Who's an Aurgasm SFRaver?

I'll be there too, but not exactly sure when.  Prolly check out
Cyberfarfle first.  I'll have my vrave badges with me :-)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 16:03:43 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 16:30:25 -0700
Subject: Re: I MAGI NATION

Wow...it's pretty interesting to come across someone who isn't utterly pissed
off by driving all the way up there for a cancelled event, especially from LA!
What did you end up doing that weekend? Much respect for finding the good in a
fiasco...

Tamara

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 16:13:17 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 12:01:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"

Hmm. The cookbook is a good idea. Is this going to be a SFRaves project
only?? 




Cindy


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 16:18:59 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 13:03:35 -0700
Subject: Re:  Tilt-a-Whirl Update

I might be doing the Tilt tonight.  Also there appears to be something
happening outside at the Aquatic Park today sponsored by the T.H.C.
people, whoever they are. 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:05:30 1993
From: "Peter W. McKenna" <kosho@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:56:41 -0700
Subject: Friday JULY 23, Come DANCE at INVISION

INVISION the hottest dance music, from ambient to tribal to the funkiest
techno.  INVISION lights by REED, toasted video, cool mutimedia lounge and
freedom from smoke and alcohol.  "I walked into the dance room and the
energy was so intense I felt like I was making love!"  Call 415 257-3882 fro
details and location.  And remember, Friday July 23, Come INVISION the
frequency of LOVE!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:05:40 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:41:32 -0700
Subject: Re:  CyberCircus

Lucky you, that you didn't have to pay to get in...Personally, I would like
my money back......Cyberdust, rust in peace....  --Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:05:49 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 16:17:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?



	In short... it was a BIG fiasco.
	Richard has a kot of explaining to do,
	A lot of people lost ime, money, burned a lot of gas, etc.
	Manny people were disillusioned and then his message blames it
	all on the native americans.


			- G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:05:56 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 08:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Who's an Aurgasm SFRaver?


Gregg Helt posted this -
 
> >From larryc:
> >Is it supposed to be an all-nighter ? If so , what's the planned closing
> >time? I may take the train up to it , stay all night , and catch the train 
>
> We're scheduled to have the space till 8, so it'll probably close down ~7
> so we can pack everything up.

Great! I can hang out until 7AM , and catch the 8AM train back south. 

> >From barryale;
> >      how do i know an sfraver when i see one?
> We're everywhere :)
> 
> Once again, i'll be the one with lots of curly blonde hair, franticly
> trying to extract melted slide from a projector.
> 

 If I can dig it up from wherever , I'll be wearing an old SFR button. Oh
yeah , I'm also going to bring a small assortment of earplugs , to find out 
which ones work "best" . And my SPL meter, too.


				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
 
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:06:12 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 22:34:13 -0700
Subject: "House Movement Cookbook"


  -Sounds like fun!
I'd like to help- maybye we could make this a collective/groupware project.
I'd say that on this list we have a wealth of talent..if we wrote
up a rave 'cookbook', it would be the definitive work on the subject,if
we really applied ourselves to it....And now with universal inter-platform
communications (almost) we should be able to group produce it, and
 send the files over the net.
Lets put together an outline,agree on standards for file transmission..
(key issue should be availability of software that would
 allow us all to participate)Do I sound like I'm raving..?
switch rant on..
I have some ideas for articles already..It could be sort of a ravers
edition of the early "Whole Earth Catalog" -with hooks to resources to
DIY everything at the minimum possible cost..
Sort of a multimedia (yes,we could do it as multimedia)
extention of the Rave FAQ.We already probably have the makins..
-chris.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:06:17 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:49:20 -0700
Subject: Re:  mythical party

I don't know if it is pure circumstance or not, but I find it intereesting
today to note that THE ONLY PARTY THAT DIDN'T GET SHUT DOWN THIS WEEKEND
APPREAS TO BE CYBERFEST....   ...---...---...---...---...---

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:06:23 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 00:04:37 -0700
Subject: Re:  What ?!

The ostensible reason for confiscating water bottles is that they may
be used to bring  in alcohol or else dosed.  But in reality, it's a
way to gear up sales for the water concession.  I think sealed bottles
of water should be allowed in; BGP events have no trouble with that.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:12:18 1993
From: susie <SK2479A@american.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 00:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: hello

hiya hiya hiya....i will be returning from dc/nyc to sf permentanly on
tuesday the 20th of july...wheee i have tons of pictures and flyers and
and stories and other goodies to show and tell...wheee...i will be getting
an apartment...(eek i have to find one) and will post my new phone number then.
.but until then i will be with mykl g until the 24th...i will be at ysh and
da benefit...come say hello...and let me put names with emails..wheee...(:(:
i can't wait to meet the people i have seemed to never meet when i am in town!
people can reach me at 415 334 8421 on the 22 of july ( i am surprising my mom
for her birthday...and she is not to know i will be in town..hehehh) or you can
call mykl...he ought to know where i am...wheee....so hello everyone!

PARTYON...SUSIE(:


p.s. if you would like to go to dinner with mykl and i on tuesday night email h
im....( i guess) and does anyone have a good suggestion of a cool place to go??
? wheee...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:12:46 1993
From: Pete Reiter <megatest!plethorax!preiter@uu2.psi.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 15:59:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CyberCircus

Well, we people said Cyberfest was going to be a 3-ring circus, I didn't really
take them literally. Maybe I should have. The trapeze act was the giveaway.
The cotton candy was an interesting touch too. There was also a skateboarding
exhibition, jugglers, unicyclists and who knows what I missed.

The crowd was very young, so luckily there weren't alot of people using the beer
concession. The were alot of majorly messed up people, though. Low smileback
percentage, but there were some. Saw a few friends, but very few for a party
this huge. My main problem with the crowd was that the just didn't seem to care.
Everyone just walked around looking for something interesting. Low percentage
of people dancing, lots of apathy.

On the plus side, there were some killer sets of music played.

All in all, it seemed more like an all night street fair than a rave. I'm just
glad I didn't have to pay to get in.

						Pete

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:13:11 1993
From: Tamara Palmer <tamara@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 16:53:40 -0700
Subject: mythical party

Teknowledgy at 538 Howard was cancelled for some reason on Friday.  Anyone know why? Rob, Johnny T, and I arrived there around 2:15 to find this out so we      rushed over to Mission Rock which had just closed and saw everyon
we bumped into Derek (Happy Birthday!) who told us that a beach party was 
supposed to be going on down in Daly City so we all went there and waited for
about an hour for the sound system to be set up. We left after about an hour of
2 Bad Mice and T99 spun at +8 (like no one would notice!) I just wasn't in the
mood for the rave anthems of 1991, especially on Chipmunk speed...went home &
crashed at 5:45 in time to wake up and go to the ...

Taber Alley Market with Bryce and Cindy. This was very cool...it's every 
Saturday at 501 Taber Alley right off of 3rd (just before Bryant)...it's an
upstairs loft where fashion designers come bring their club wears (just a few
designers, this place was very friendly but largely empty) and they have a
DJ spinning acid jazz (I think it was Gerry V)...Bryce and I cleaned the place
out...

All in all, a pretty cool Friday/Saturday, but we sort of spent it looking for
that mythical party that never really happened...

Tamara

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:14:15 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 12:43:56 -0700
Subject: i thought i saw me i cyberfest


Either the carnival is coming to town, or cyberfest has been set up in
the supah-south of market area. you can check it out if you get off the
last exit on 280->N in SF (4th st?) and head towards the water over
that funky art-deco metal bridge. Sorry I don't know any of the street
names -- I learnt SF geography by spending the last 5 years getting lost...

I just happened to see it on my way over to mission rock last night.

Cyberfest looks so mahvelous that I'll just have to give it a miss. Not
that blowing $40.00  for an evening of fun w/ my girlfriend is gonna
cause any grief, but it just seems so overhyped and commercial. But...
I was almost excited about letting my electronic dialer doodad win me
tickets on KFJC, but alas I was 1 call off from being the 10th caller
so I missed it. Aw shucks.

I hear they got some neato circus things going, like the huge 40 foot
phallus that jerks itself erect over the expectant crowd, and an evil
clown that cackles at you insanely while you're tripping.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:18:14 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 00:24:24 -0700
Subject: Re:  Imagination

IMAGINATION...I spoke with Richard today for over one hour and what I
heard filled my heart with much sadness.  As I already suggested, perhaps
everyone might ease up on the somewhat mean speculation until he posts'what
happened' here. .. you know people, once again, life is out of balance.  We
are targeting some people who worked their asses off to try to bring us a
special party..when the real shit happened in our own neighborhood.

I understand that certain promoters were virtually driven out of Los
Angeles, that they almost destroyed the rave scene there.  Now they are
feeding in San Francisco, raping the energy of the Bay Area House Movement.

A couple thoughts just occured to me.  Before we try to bridge cultural gaps
across the world, perhaps we need to get our local house a bit more in sync,
in order so to speak.  Also, if I have the time before Saturday, I will take
some flyers to the Oakland intertribal friendship house for Unity.  WE DON'T
HAVE TO HAVE A PARTY ON A RESERVATION TO OPEN OUR DOORS TO ALL CULTURES.
Damn, this is a good idea if I do say so myself.  --blessed be   Maureen

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:19:06 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:37:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

That some of u seemed to think that promoters who dissed thousands year old
native traditions, a key decades old native struggles, could possibly thro a
good vibe party is beyond my meager limits of comprehension.  my instant
karma message said it all.  now richard blames it all on a corrupt tribal
gommint.  truth is indian systems weork differe=nt then ours, as any real
contact would have shown him.  & no decisions are made in 7 days.

at worst, the tribal councils are corrupt only to the same degree as most
rave promoters.  but i was quite surprised at the gullibility level of some
sfravers.

peace
alpha-10

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:19:26 1993
From: "Pete Reiter" <megatest!plethorax!preiter@uu2.psi.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:50:21 PDT
Subject: A cool quote...


	"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"


							Pete

P.S. Sorry, I don't know where it came from


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:19:26 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:30:45 EDT
Subject: Re:  Imagination

By the way, did anyone listen to his 3 minute apology on the info
line? I recorded it. If there's interest, I could transcribe it.

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:20:07 1993
From: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 00:04:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aurgasm


i'm getting ready to do visuals again tomorrow at Aurgasm.
Been thinking all week of other toys to make/bring/play with. i 
probably won't get a chance to manifest even half of it this 
time around.  So much to tweak, so little time...

The opening time has changed to 11 -- we found out we're not 
going to be able to get into the space until 10.  A one hour
set-up should be challenging; we had more time last week, but
now we've had some practice at it.  Though i expect come 11 the
altars will still be under construction.  If you're into
participating in such things, feel free to pitch in and help.
And please bring things for the altars -- we're hoping they get
bigger and more interesting every week.

From larryc:
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

From barryale;
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

Once again, i'll be the one with lots of curly blonde hair, franticly
trying to extract melted slide from a projector.

		looking forward to That Vibe again,
			hope to see y'all there,
				gregg


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:25:26 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:24:07 PDT
Subject: GARTH CD

Can I get the Garth CD at the SFR lunch tomorrow?
If not where?

(I don't sant to pay $20) for it.



			-G

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:25:22 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 16:49:54 -0700
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"

>yeah!, is there a gopher service now for rave related stuff?

I think the FTP site here at soda is available via gopher from sfraves.
stanford.edu.  As soon as I compile a gopher daemon you could gopher right
to here....

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:26:10 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 18:48:38 -0800
Subject: sunday report

drove towards Boogie Buffet this morning, and had to detour around a  
roadblock along 14th st (for a bunch of people running).  when my detour was  
thwarted by another roadblock (same event) i turned around and came home, and  
had what might be the limit case of a micro-rave.  two things to report from  
this happy experience:

first, i really like the Garth CD (No Rest for the Wicked), which provided  
about half the entertainment this afternoon.  sometimes garth spins sets less  
to my taste - "housey" (divas on top of monotonous beats).  not this set -  
it's quite varied, skillfully mixed, and well engineered (sounds notably  
better than most mix tapes).  i hope Luv Phasers Productions keeps the  
momentum up.

second, i noticed the room was getting a little warm and started to take my  
shirt off.  with nobody else around to be weirded out or judge, the rest of  
the clothes came off too.  wow - what a wonderful feeling to move around  
unencumbered by even the loosest, lightest, "most comfortable" clothing.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:26:24 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 22:29:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

	big fiasco is right.  gristle and i and my newbieraver pona
	housemate got to the *fourth* site, saw the mess there,
	and left to go camp at emerald bay.  one massive overdose
	and no sleep later, we drove to tahoe city where i got slack
	cheap jetski rentals and mr. doughey slept in the wbl-mobile.
	it was a fun trip, but raving there was none.

	<gristle> i hope this doesn't destroy richard's credibility.
		 	  do you think it will rocky?

	well i don't know, but though the man has a heart of gold
	he really fucked this whole imagination thing up.  a pile
	of permits and contracts might have done better than smudge 
	sticks and karma.  not that those are bad, it's just that 
	the quthorities dont really play by those rules.

	so richard, how will you makje it up to us?

	looking back, i think we had more fun than cybergyp will be 
	able to offer us.

calirock


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:27:14 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 21:19:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

>but i was quite surprised at the gullibility level of some sfravers.

unfortunately, I was not.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:30:37 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 21 Jul 1993 15:04:49 -0800
Subject: repeat messages?

                       Subject:                               Time:14:55
  OFFICE MEMO          repeat messages?                       Date:7/21/93

Anyone else receiving them?



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:31:52 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:47:16 -0700
Subject: Re:  What ?!

Regarding "How can we stop promoters from confiscating our water bottles?"
I hope such answers will be found someday in a booklete I'd like to
put together---the House Movement Cookbook. (in the line above answers is
also recipes, and delete the e on booklet.  Last night at Cyberdust, had I
drank the water I normally do, I would have had to spend $6-8 on water...
--Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:32:30 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 15:10:18 -0700
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"

Thanks.  What I had in mind regarding the House Movement Cookbook project is
broader than sfraves.  I would like as many people as possible to have
input, people who produce parties, the artists (DJ's, sound and visual
crews, graphic designers, mural artists, etc.), and the thousands that dance
(while varied, they know what works and what doesn't work) at parties.  I
plan on seeking guidance and information from the men and woman who have
been involved in production, both successfully and unsuccessfully.  

The primary purpose of the HMC is to determine what it is going to take for
us to be able to continue to party, and to evolve in the process knowing
that there are many people/organizations which would love to see us shut
down for good.  

With all of this in mind,and knowing that the HMC is a booklet for survival,
where do we begin?  With a table of contents, an outline.  Please email your
thoughts to me through sfraves.  Peace through music and dance....--Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:33:39 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:49:16 EDT
Subject: GG Park raves....

I'd settle for the Rave-in-a-Bag and a chance to chill and play
frisbee with some cool people in a beautiful park. :)

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:34:19 1993
From: jpp@markv.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 15:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I MAGI NATION

  I broke free from work at 1800, and began my drive from LA to Tahoe
for the I-Magi-Nation event.  The weather was nice to be out riding a
motorcycle, and near the end of a fine sunset seen from inside the
centrall valley, I was treated to a shooting star!  Later a nice dark
sky full of the more sedatly moving stars shined down.  At the gas
station on highway 50, a little past the sign very thoughtfully
provided (by the promoters and the highway maintanence people I
presume), at about 0100 in the morning, I met a couple of really
groovy guys.  (Hi Jim!  Hi Rob!  !wave!)  We talked about the
movement, past events, PGP, the net, and what to do with that evening
and the next.

  I did a lot of thinking this weekend, and for me I think the house
movement is ultimately about that positive vibration.  It is about
taking a spark of joy, faning it to flames, passing it around among
others to build a bonfire.  It is about building up your own ability
to recognize the good in every day.  It is about conecting with
people, and giving each other a bit more joy.  It is about this great
positive feedback loop we are building.

  Peace.

j'
--
                O I am Jay Prime Positive jpp@markv.com 
1250 bit key fingerprint =  B8 95 E0 AF 9A A2 CD A5  89 C9 F0 FE B4 3A 2C 3F
 524 bit key fingerprint =  8A 7C B9 F2 D5 46 4D ED  66 23 F1 71 DE FF 51 48
Public keys by `finger jpp @hermix.markv.com' or pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu
Your feedback is welcome, directly or via symbol JPP on hex@sea.east.sun.com

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:35:33 1993
From: Trevor Schulze <tschulze@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:17:12 PDT
Subject: Re: repeat messages?


> 
>                        Subject:                               Time:14:55
>   OFFICE MEMO          repeat messages?                       Date:7/21/93
> 
> Anyone else receiving them?
> 
> 
> 
Yep, seems to be happening all of the sudden......Anybody else?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
  Trevor Schulze	tschulze@cisco.com	(415) 688-7739
----------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:37:44 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:49:34 -0700
Subject: Re:  mythical party

why did teknowledgy fail?

several djs & producers i talked 2 said the music was topoline, but basic
idea far above general crowd taste.  2nd reason was that all "hardcore"
ravers wouldn't go cuz of location at dv8, tho producer's completely changed
place's vibe w/ grat visuals & gen'l goodness.  as 1 of buck's best dj
friend's fro europe, colin (harder than hardcore) dale had to bail on trip
to sf because of winkie's pullout, he was way bummed.

alpha

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:38:57 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 00:39:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Aurgasm busted

Cool World was caught repeatedly tossing Pyramid Lake flyers in the trash at
parties before last weekend.  Cool world ripped up all Bass tickets, no
stubs left for any ravers, because if they got busted, no one would be able
to get a refund from BASS, or prove that they were at that event.  Well
organized..only to the extent that they didn't get closed down.
Organization usually implies that what you 'put'on your flyer is what you
might be able to experience, or contribute to at the party.  Yes they are
businessmen, no denying that.  Cool World brought in their angry spokespeole
to disrupt a Malachy meeting, then get their way the following week.  Brian
talk to some of the DJ's that used to spin in LA about these people.  It
might make you sick, and realize that anything is possible....If this
organization is 1/2 as corrupt as I have heard from elders in our House
community...we need to open our eyes.  Once again, I LOVED the sf Chron
review of Cyberfest...accurate and perhaps many ravers and new ravers who
attended that event will look for other parties in the future.  sigh..

If I have the time, it is my intention to investigate all of this.
Personally I would LOVE to know how he got a permit to have kids staying out
past 2:00 AM, no iD's were checked when just so many parties have been
busted lately.  Isn't that interesting.  Lots and lots of parties have been
busted lately...all pre Cyberfest.  Funny but somehow I think that bust rate
will go down...thoughts from sherlock holms.  This ought to stir upthe
quagmire....   -- Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:40:07 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 17:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: i thought i saw me i cyberfest

> 
> >Either the carnival is coming to town, or cyberfest has been set up in
> >the supah-south of market area. you can check it out if you get off the
> >last exit on 280->N in SF (4th st?) and head towards the water over
> >that funky art-deco metal bridge. Sorry I don't know any of the street
> >names -- I learnt SF geography by spending the last 5 years getting lost...
> >
Too bad nobody thought of having a renegade party tonight, especially
having I-magin-a-tion shut down. Oh well. Anyone know of what other
alternatives other than Aurgasm and "CyberUgly" tonight?



Cin


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:42:05 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 12:06:20 -0700
Subject: Strange that messages are coming back to haunt us...!

  Is anyone else getting repeats of old messages..?
I just got a series of several that must have been sent several days
ago..   It must be those Daemons they told me about before I got
onto the Net...
-Chris.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:44:55 1993
From: Tai Truong <ttruong@husc.harvard.edu>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:28:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"



On Sat, 17 Jul 1993, Fred Heutte wrote:

> And of course the House Movement Cookbook Gopher for online access!

yeah!, is there a gopher service now for rave related stuff?

Tai



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:45:32 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:25:16 PDT
Subject: Music, Dancing, and attitudes

i dont know whether or not music is the scene or the point or the focus
to me it is a channeler, it enables, just as the DJ enables
and is a channeler,  i would say that the people and the feeling
and the unity and all that is the point
and the DJ channels the music which channels the crowd into
the right feeling

i agree completely with brian on music taste
i used to be into hardcore stuff where the faster it was the better
i got pissed at Adam X for slowing down to 140 cuz i couldnt dance that slow

but one night, with some speakers on a rooftop, listening to Chill Out
watching the sunrise.. ambient stuff made sense
and i started buying records that tried to combine the two
that now i really love

and then one time, after going to an incredibly spiritual party
and driving god knows how many miles 
i was laying in balboa park, being completely worked by Bones and Daemon
spinning great housey stuff...
and every time i hear songs from last summer in the park,
i feel happy, because i was happy then and thats when i heard that music

recently i went to a club where the music selection was the same as it would
have been a year ago, and i totally pictured all the raves i went to then
the atmosphere and the fun i had...
and it made me smile
i figured out there was a huge difference in the amount and style of dancing
that i do to hardcore/house/etc...

and there is a great program i am in, that has great vibes
and postive energy, and most people dont appreciate the music i like
and im not to thrilled with their tastes...
but there are some songs especially, that everyone gets into
and its just the people there.. songs like YMCA, or Brown Eyed girl
or whatever.. and some other songs that only mean a lot to me
because of those people at that time

but with all this.. the music wasnt what made me happy
it was the people, the feeling.. it just helped to bring that around

i dont want to say that you shouldnt say what you want.. feel free
but make sure you really want to communicate what you are communicating

do we really need to go around saying "_____ sucks"?
or that so-and-so is being this-and-that?
relate personal experience, personal opinion about things
but it really is useless to make judgements about other people
especially over a medium that does not carry much emotion
or inflection or body and facial expressions
just try to think (like i often dont) about whether you want
to be offending people with what you are about to say
and if you are going to do so...
but some people like to be offensive.. so hey

 ,
dana

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:45:51 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 15:58:15 -0700
Subject: Re:  "House Movement Cookbook"

>And of course the House Movement Cookbook Gopher for online access!


Only thing I wanna know is will I be able to "finger" it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:47:32 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 18:38:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bored and Wanna Make Bubbles??

Ever since Leah, Tamara, Brian B, Bryan S, and I saw the Bubble Man in
South Pasedena, I thought it would be nice if we saw more bubbles at raves:).
Why not? It's nice outside and they're fun. I found the Exploratorium
Bubble Solution Formula when I cleaned up my room.:)

2/3 cup Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent

add water to make 1 gallon

add 1 tablespoon glycerine (available at the drugstore)


Notes: solution becomes better with age and recommend that it be allowed
to sit in an open container for at least one day before use..

Interesting ways to make bubbles= hoops of any size, two drinking straws
with string threaded through them, using the straws as handles, juice cans
with the ends removed and taped together to make long trumpets, coat
hanger shapes, Slinky's, etc.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:50:51 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 15:58:09 -0700
Subject: Re: i thought i saw me i cyberfest

>Either the carnival is coming to town, or cyberfest has been set up in
>the supah-south of market area. you can check it out if you get off the
>last exit on 280->N in SF (4th st?) and head towards the water over
>that funky art-deco metal bridge. Sorry I don't know any of the street
>names -- I learnt SF geography by spending the last 5 years getting lost...
>
>I just happened to see it on my way over to mission rock last night.
>
>Cyberfest looks so mahvelous that I'll just have to give it a miss. Not
>that blowing $40.00  for an evening of fun w/ my girlfriend is gonna
>cause any grief, but it just seems so overhyped and commercial. But...
>I was almost excited about letting my electronic dialer doodad win me
>tickets on KFJC, but alas I was 1 call off from being the 10th caller
>so I missed it. Aw shucks.
>
>I hear they got some neato circus things going, like the huge 40 foot
>phallus that jerks itself erect over the expectant crowd, and an evil
>clown that cackles at you insanely while you're tripping.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Gee thanks Neils for another well placed endorsement of "Insider's Guide...".
CyberUgly will be a three ring circus of clowns and foolishness. So much so
that there will be bleacher seats for the spectators of this very original
"bread & circuses" event.  And whoever said this was NOT the new Roman
Empire...

As a very famous French Royalty once said: "let them eat MASSIVE!"

I have decided to go to CyberUgly.  I will igest HUGE quantities of
hallucinogens, afterwhich  I will perform my special act (BTW it was
requested by the inventors of CyberUgly), knife throwing!  I have never
thrown or even weilded a knife in my life.  But the good folks at CyberUgly
have been nice enough to give me my first big break!  There will be a real
live spinning wheel to which will be strapped, at various times during the
evening, one of the members of the CyberUgly posse.  Man I'm so excited
I've had an erection all day (measures about 40 feet).  Which leads me to
the other thing I have been so graciously asked to do.... 


As they day "MASSIVE ON DUDE!".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Peace...


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:51:04 1993
From: jpp@markv.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 18:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: I MAGI NATION

  What did I do this weekend?  Well, mostly I drove.  And actually, I
got a few smilebacks to quote Pete <megatest! plethorax! preiter@
uu2. psi. com>.  It is a road bike thing to wave at each other, and
visit in gas stations.  But I also helped out a few people driving
south on 5 (opened up passing space), and got one def smileback!

  So anyhow, I hope you all had a good weekend, danced your asses off,
doin the high energy joy glow go go thang.  So, how was Boogie Buffet?
And tell me what groovy things did you do (are you doing) this
weekend!

j'
--
                O I am Jay Prime Positive jpp@markv.com 
1250 bit key fingerprint =  B8 95 E0 AF 9A A2 CD A5  89 C9 F0 FE B4 3A 2C 3F
 524 bit key fingerprint =  8A 7C B9 F2 D5 46 4D ED  66 23 F1 71 DE FF 51 48
Public keys by `finger jpp @hermix.markv.com' or pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu
Your feedback is welcome, directly or via symbol JPP on hex@sea.east.sun.com

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:51:08 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 15:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Tilt-a-Whirl Update



On Sun, 18 Jul 1993, Fred Heutte wrote:

> I might be doing the Tilt tonight.  Also there appears to be something
> happening outside at the Aquatic Park today sponsored by the T.H.C.
> people, whoever they are. 

THC stands (in this case) for Total House Commitment, which is in some way
connected to Primal Records in Berkeley.  The Aquatic Park thang sounds
pretty cool.  Might be a good thing to check out on a bright sunny sunday
afternoon.
///////////{{{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<<<<232>>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:52:30 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 13:26:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Earplug Report


Last night , I tested four types of earplugs at Aurgasm - after my 
A/B testing ( which included different types of earplugs in each ear 
at a time , and cupping my hand over one ear to hear the other better ) ,
my objective rating of the sound qualities of them are as follows -

	#1	Wet facial tissue
	#2	Foam plugs
	#3	Sonic II musician's earplugs
	#4	Tie: dry facial tissue vs Silly Putty in kitchen wrap


Advantages and disadvantages of each:

	Wet facial tissue: Cheap , and the raw material is multi-purpose. 
	 Needs a sourch of water or acceptable liquid. Custom sizing.
         Can be formed so that the whole ear canal isn't blocked , 
	 allowing more high freqs into the ear than other designs.
	 Sometimes hard to remember if a sheet is "new" or "used". :-( 
	 If it dries out , still better than #4 , since the dampness
	 makes the plugs more compact when they dry out.

	Foam plugs: Cheaper than Sonic IIs . Many brands - I used the
	 conical "nose cone" yellow ones , other brands may not have the 
	 same performance or comfort. The ones I used where big enough to 
	 sit in my ear ridge without being jammed too far into my
	 ear canal. Comfortable.

	Sonic II : Most expensive of the ones tested. Before breaking
	 in , the rubber ridges may be a little too stiff for comfort.
	 About the same high freq or better than foam plugs , but 
	 the cost /benefit ratio seems high. Also , less easy to adjust 
	 volume & tonal balance by pulling out than other designs. ( Feels
	 like it may fall out ).

	Dry facial tissue : Cheap ( see "wet facial tissue" for common
	 qualities ). Bunches instead of compacts , therefore (?) the
	 tonal qualityis more muffled. Also , harder to control shape,
	 since dry tissue tends to spring back after wadding.

	Silly Putty : Slightly wierd tone - sounds are attenuated ,but
	 "thumps" are accentuated. Easily formed ( I forgot to try the 
	 trick of partially-blocking the ear canal - maybe some other
	 rave ). Probably more expensive than foam earplugs.

			So much for this week's consumer ratings - 
				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:58:04 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 00:36:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

>        you don't know richard sun.  he did fuck up but he does not
>        diss thousand year old traditions.  you need to think before
>        you post some of the things you post mr. super in the know
>        alpha10 person.
>
>calirock

i duuno what you were thinking about...but so far alpha10 has been right on
the money.  did the research, did the calling.  Obviously more than some
promoters of late have done...lets get real:


The FACT is that little IMAGI-stunt is one of the many reasons people are
staying home these days.  Promoters promise the world, deliver crap.  The
FACT is if the homework was done ahead of time alot of BS coulda been
avioded.  But as usual things got fucked up....FAST!  

Sorry, but promoters have got to be held responsible for their event! Good
inentions don't mean shit when promises cannot be delivered.

As for Cyber-orgasma-confusion, it was what it said it was gonna be. 
Knowing that was enough to convince me to stay home.  I'll wait for a more
focused event (but I won't hold my breath ;)

Until the next three-ring-circus of confusion...and even MORE broken
promises by money-scamming promoters....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 17:58:48 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 15:19:54 -0700
Subject: Cruel World/Cyberdust

I was in Scramento on business Thursday and Friday, so I caught the
last train to SF and headed down to Mission Rock, which was fun.
If you haven't been there, it's an old fisherman's bar and restaurant
with reputedly the worst hamburgers in the Bay Area.  It's in a sort
of boathousetructure down at the Bay northeast of Potrero Hill
on the backside of 3rd Ave, I guess 17th and Illinois is the officka
address.
 
There was an ambient room downstairs, an upstairs bar and an outdoor
deck with a small light show running at the near end and the DJ table
at the far end.  Pretty nice crowd, and the deck was full with dancers
for most of the time.  I heard Gavan and Mark Farina and a couple
others I couldn't identify; I was a bit disappointed with Mark
Farina's set, actually.  With a fare of $5 I'd put Mission Rock
on the "recommended" list for being small, friendly and low key!
I saw BrianB, Derek and a few other folks there, and got to show off
my new production-run vrave badge :)
 
I spent the day Saturday "doing Haight St."  Spent well over an
hour at Tweakin' going through some of their new releases before
settling on an ambient CD compilation.  so had nice visits at
Housewares and Ameba, where I heard that due to the cancellation
of Imagination, the Wicked crew might be doing a local renegade.
 
Met up with Maureen (metalmau) on the way in to Cyberfest.  We got
there early -- right around 8.  It was pretty much a through-and-
through disaster.  For your $20 or $25 you got: an enormous line,
lengthy wait and continual confusion on the way in; your water bottles
confiscated; a "rave" on a large abandoned field which used to house
warehouses or who knows what, replete with rocks, dust and scrub;
one big, one medium and one small tent with ill-positioned sound
stuff that actually sounded better outside than in; several thousand
attendees, split about 20% rave vets, 20% club types and 60% truly
clueless; lots of great DJs and crowded, chaotic, dusty, tobacco-ey
dancing areas; one big carney ride, a trapeze setup (kinda cool,
actually), a big slide, a VR setup run by what looked like real
carneys; dust; ONE trash can in the entire place; two places to
buy bottled water; dust; about 15 tables selling various things
from t-shirts and jewelry to BobR selling C II and Carlos tapes
and the new Garth CD; dust; go-go dancers on a platform in the
middle of the midway; one fairly nice laser light show; dust;
dust; dust.
 
I finally decided to bail around 3 am.  Maureen and I and a couple
of her friends took a quick tour through the main tent.  The
"friendly" security staff standing on one of the platforms in
the middle had been replaced by a woman who had taken her top
off and was dancing to the ogling of the assembled crowd in the
dark dusty space.
 
We met up with some nice folks outside and persuaded them that their
decision not to go in was a wise one :)  Then we left and stopped
outside the CalTrain station to call the Wicked line.  The message
said they had set up by a yellow Penske truck in the lot at
4th between Townsend and Berry, but when we went back there was
nobody there.  And nobody at King St. either.  We knew by then
the night was over, so we gave up and headed home.
 
I called the Wicked line about 4, just after a new message was
posted.  Apparently they had set up for a short while but were
hassled by the police, so they packed up and went home, with
an optimistic footnote about finding a space to set up sometime
today (nothing yet as I write).
 
Conclusion: Cool World are a bunch of greedy if semi-competent creeps.
What they had was a carnival with house and techno music.  I wonder how many
thousands of people there last night think that "raves" are all like that.
I pretty much knew it would turn out like this, but the vibe-out
from this thing was so bad that it flattened everything else
within miles ;-{
 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:14:22 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:37:56 PDT
Subject: Re: your mail

SHALAKO sez:
> 
> amen. i go to raves to be physically alone. it's the 1000+ other
> spirits that i want to be with.
> 
> to lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM, i would say:
> if you're NOT going to raves just for the music, maybe you should
> try a club... 
> 


Maybe I'm just having trouble parsing this, or maybe you are being
extremely thick, or both, but what exactly do you mean by that?

You managed to say pretty much exactly what Lee was getting at, and
then slam him.  

If you are implying that Lee meant that one should go to raves to get
a piece of ass, I'd bet that you are about as far from the truth as
you can get.  (Though the several people who apparently had sex in the
main room of the New Years Gathering would probably disagree :-)

BTW, are spirits attached to bodies?  If not, then maybe you should
try raving at home (so you could be physically alone) and projecting
your spirit to the nearest rave.

-H-



-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
    Ever notice that most of the people against public sex education are
     people that you wouldn't want to have sex with in the first place?
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:14:50 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 20:33:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

	you don't know richard sun.  he did fuck up but he does not
	diss thousand year old traditions.  you need to think before
	you post some of the things you post mr. super in the know
	alpha10 person.

calirock


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:19:51 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 17:09:57 EDT
Subject: Aurgasm Interruptus

How very very very very lame.

"Sorry we're shutting down because we're not making enough money."

Lame lame lame.

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:20:38 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 17:09:00 EDT
Subject: Music, Dancing, and attitudes


I think that Brian said it best when he said it's a very subjective
thing. You'll get out of it what you want to.

People are so diferent... can anyone really expect the experience is
the same, or that people want the same thing from it?

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:20:46 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 00:55:36 -0700
Subject: Re:  Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

A couple of thoughts.  IMHO, Cyberfest sucked the energy right out of San
Francisco for an entire weekend and quite possible for several weekends
leading to it.  He didn't fuck with the Gathering though.  On Friday night,
some 50 people were allowed to camp until Saturday morning up high in the
Sierras.  Food had been prepared for thousands by Hare Krishnas.  So much
energy, my own included, went into trying to make IMAGINATION happen.  When
it didn't happen, I felt drained.

The Wicked folks were doing something that perhaps they are unaware of..they
were balancing the energy.  When I heard of their renegrade, it put joy in
my heart and a smile on my face.  Also, mostly the promoters get along and
try to accomodate each others parties via scheduling, however, why not have
two parties on opposite corners.  In this scene, competition is healthy,
what we don't need our monopolies..Cool World would like to monopolize the
scene certainly $$ wise so it seems.  

Is live and let live something we can do or not?  NOT...all the time. We
can't stop rip off promoters, but we can become conscious about the effects
of certain actions.  Let's not stick our heads in holes in the ground..Did
anyone notice how many holes there were on the Cyberdust land...

Well this is going to be no doubt another one of those nights where I get
raked over the coals for so many posts...   --Maybe I will get lucky and
have a really good rave dream tonight  --Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:21:29 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 12:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aurgasm Interruptus


A new way for a rave to get shut down ...

 With my test set of four pairs of earplugs , I caught the train from San
Jose. When I got to King St. , I met a bunch of SFRavers waiting outside
for the setup to complete. 

 Once we got in , it was as reported last week - big altar in the main area,
small "shrines" in the hallway. Music was housey , then trancey - some 
folks liked it , some didn't ( I'm tired and dazed - sorry for the sloppy
reporting ).

 ANYWAY - I was helping to distribute flyers for Your Sister's House , when
I noticed the table for the flyers that was in the hallway was gone. Then, 
a few minutes later, I noticed that the candy stand and another piece
of furniture was being taken from the King St. side to the Townsend side 
( a leather dudes dance was occuring on the Townsend side ).
 
 At around 2:30AM , the attendence for Aurgasm was about up to 40 people. At
that particular point , only five people were on the dance floor , including
me. Then , the house lights came on , for what I thought was dramatic
effect. But then , a security guard told the DJ to shut it down. 

 So ,I asked another security guard what was up , and she said that
it was being shut down because the club was loosing money on it. 

 I helped Greg take his stuff down , and then I left with Randy & his
girlfriend Auburn. We hung out at Charter Oak , on the rumor of something
happening there, but no luck. So, we left San Francisco .


				What a $#*!@ drag ...

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

PS - Has any other rave in this area been shut down for this reason?
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:25:52 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:53:16 PDT
Subject: Group Campsite?

Has anyone tried one of the group campsites they have in many of the
state parks?  There are several in Bay Area state parks.
There are also a couple near Lake Tahoe.  I was wondering if these
were sufficiently isolated from the rest of the park so we could do
our thing without bothering anyone.  Most of these parks also have
individual campsites, and we wouldn't want to keep those folks awake.
(unless those folks are more of us, of course).





From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:28:30 1993
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993   14:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: INVISION Conscious Dance Event posting

In-Reply-To: kosho@well.sf.ca.us -- 07/21/93 13:21

enuff already !
check your automated mailer for a loop in its programm, since sfraves
is getting too many copies of this announcement. also, we'd like to hear
more from you than these tired words about the  'hottest new music' .
what do you say ? what kind of musick to you enjoy ? trance ?
house ?   ear-bleeding tekno ?
take care/shalom/rave on
ovid
p.d. this is a mild flame.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:31:23 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:13:04 PDT
Subject: Re:  Evolution of the Tunes

sorry to use sfraves for non-list stuff but I couldn't get to jon...
and can't find lee's address [hey, it's been a LONG week, so be nice, ok?]

--------------cut here!-----------scratch here!!--------------out!


hey jon & lee

send me your street (mailing, snail-stylee) address, ok?
then i'll (probably) send you a postcard, desert dust, or a 
horny gila monster from beee-you-tee-ful Az.

lat,

*
-----------

and does anybodfy else want anything from {blisteringly} sunny Az?

now's your chance, tomorrow's (Thurs) my last day at work for a week...

as long as it's cheap/easy/etc, i'll bring it back for you...if it's
expensive/hard/difficult, you need to give me the "tools" to get it
(i.e. $, intructions etc.)

lat,

*

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:33:54 1993
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993   14:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: goa gil

so i went ot nickie's last night on a tip that they'd be playing trance
stuff. it was really kool 'world trance', with stuff by nusrat, masters
of joujouka, pygmie  chants and such . i also ran into goa gil. he
told me that he stopped doing tilt-a world when they moved to e. bay
and went all ages. ma not quite sure why he did not like that. but, i do
hope he gets to play more and to that  effect i want to publicize his
number for folx who can/want to have him play : 924-6145, teknotribe
international. btw, i get no $ out this . i am doing this   just for
the fact that i never hear him and i really like his stuff and hope
to help him - and us - hear that hard/trance stuff.

      take care/shalom/rave hard
          ovid
















From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:34:50 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <wing@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:24:10 -0700
Subject: Re: GG Park raves.... 

In message <9307211056.AA05771@soda.berkeley.edu> you write:
>
>	So in a manner of speaking, the slate is clean for a new group of
>people to try.  But the going will NOT be easy, and I have serious doubts 
>that we could get something going before... September :(  but it seems worth
>a try.  Tomorrow (er, today for most of you)  I'll call the people I know 
>who were in charge of all this at the beginning of summer and see where they 
>left things....
>

This doesn't sound so bad at all!  September and October are absolutely
the two most gorgeous months in S.F.  (IMHO of course :)  Summer in
Marx Meadow can get way foggy.

ben

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:36:02 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:37:55 -0700
Subject: Re: water

------

I completely forgot to mention that the one excuse that they gave 
me at the door for not letting my water bottle in is that I may have 
laced it with liquid Acid. " I said oh sure, care to try some?"


vivianm

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:41:39 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:10:46 -0700
Subject: Re: Friday JULY 23, Come DANCE at INVISION


I just called because I was curious. Why do you have to pay $15 if you are over 21 and only $10 if you are under 21?


vivianm

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:44:01 1993
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:13:55 PDT
Subject: Re: repeat messages?


Hey, Scott; yes, I am also receiving repeat messages.


peace-	jocelyn

favorite sounding word of the day: papal

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:47:07 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:03:32 -0700
Subject: Mission: Protect The Underground Realm


Well fellow brothers and sisters, I think we've all learned our lessons
and from now on it  is our turn the subjects of the underground realm to
decide which promoters are commercial($$$$$$) and which are in more for the
love of the Underground Ravedom. Think about that!!!!!!

I suggest the follwing (reminder: they are only suggestions and please put input
on this):

1) the less the general population hears or gets flyers from the Underground
Promoters the less likely the chance of a true gathering bieng cancelled; after
all isn't "Underground Scene" meant to emphasize that such spontaneous gathering
s are kept secret from the general population. So be responsible and aware to wh
om
whom you hand flyers out to not to mention be selective as far as do you know if
 f
the person you're handing a flyer to or talking about a rave is an Underground
Subject with 100% loyalty to our Ravedom.

2) Communication!!!!!!! thats the key word here. Who are the promoters, are they
a bunch of people who really know what they are doing or what are their intentio
ns greed($$$$$$) or music. I think someone should research and come up with
a list of current promoters who have done an absolutly awsome job all around.
That way when promoters do advertise their event we can say " ...hmmm! this guy
is the one who ........ and these guys.........so I will go to......." get the
picture???

3)Please keep the Underground Realm underground!!! If any promoter does co decid
e
to commercialize use your "right" to boycott, and maybe that way all those
religous, politically corrupt, ignorant bunch of non-democratic assholes(pardon
me Francais) will not point any nasty fingers at "...those horrible sinical
drug addicted school drop out get a life ravers..." (yeah right) they are the
ones that cause the most problem if they start accusing us instead of the
promoters who cook up some get rich quik scam without any consideration for the
future generation of the Underground.

Please feel free to add on or give your opinions on this matter and maybe just
maybe we will be able to stay Underground and have more fun in the near future..
. what do you think.....hehehe!!!

                                Rave-Forever Boys and Girls,   

					Wislboy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:49:47 1993
From: "Mark Pesce" <mark_pesce@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 21 Jul 1993 16:43:46 -0800
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From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 18:54:41 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:39:50 PDT
Subject: South Bay Lunch

 
 Hello SFRavers!
 
 ( Since Elizabeth Medel will not be able to post this weekly notice , I've 
 agreed to do it for awhile , until she has net access again. )
 
 Subject: Southbay SFR Lunch Reminder
 
 
 Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
 tomorrow's SFR Lunch ...
 
 When: Thursday, July 21st 
 Time: 12.00 noon
 Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto
 
 Directions:
 
 * From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
 
 * Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
   (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)
 
 * Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (past apartment complexes on right)
   
 * You will see the park on your right hand side. Park in the first
   carpark to your right.
 
 * We'll meet on the grassy knoll, under the trees behind the backstop.
 
 Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!
 
 				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com    )
 
 



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 19:16:10 1993
From: sap@lucid.com (Synthia Petroka)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:55:21 PDT
Subject: Strange that messages are coming back to haunt us...!

Yes, I'm getting bombarded!  I thought it had something to do with the mail
server at my site because we had some big problems earlier this week with our
network.

Oh, Brian....

-Synthia

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 19:21:10 1993
From: amit@suz.esd.sgi.com (Amit Shoham)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 16:57:57 -0700
Subject: deja vu

I keep getting repeat messeges from last weekend.  I'm reminded of the
movie groundhog day.  Are we gonna have to repeat the weekend until we
get it right?  I'd rather face the future than re-live the past :)

Amit




From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 19:23:43 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 18:23:51 -0700
Subject: Re: repeat messages?

Tons of repeats from the last week . . .

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 19:35:39 1993
From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 18:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CyberCircus from the Other Side

  I'm also a juggler; and last Sunday, some of the acrobats and jugglers
who worked the Cyberfest came to the GGPark jugglers get-together and
talked about their experiences.  They had a great time. Maybe it's
necessary to put your body into the rhythms of a rave before you can enjoy
it. If you hold back -- for whatever reason, good or bad -- you're not
going to like it.

  



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 19:47:33 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 18:49:28 -0700
Subject: Re:  CyberCircus from the Other Side

I didn't hold back, but after an hour+ grooving to Carlos' set in the
main tent and being constantly jostled and assaulted with dust and
cigarette smoke, I wasn't into sticking around for the rest of it
no matter who was spinning.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 20:19:21 1993
From: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 19:05 PDT
Subject: uhh...what?

This is what I read:                                                          
 
Come Dance at INVISION, the Bay Area's only conscious multimedia dance        
 
event!  INVISION features the hottest dance music from modern dance before     
midnight to ambient, tribal and funky techno after midnight, fantasy          
 
lights, toasted video, cool multimedia lounge all in a smoke and alcohol      
                                                                               
free invironment.  Call 415 257-3882 for details and location!               
"I walked into the dance room and the energy was so intense I felt like I
was making love!"                                                             
                        
                        
                        
did someone type this off of Live 105?  What is that all about?  Sounds
WEAK.  please!!!! s top stop stop stop

it is Pop the Chompy.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 20:24:34 1993
From: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 19:00 PDT
Subject: Re: Dumbass parties and intentionally awkward titles

Allllright.

Okay, as Bob and Pete know, Zak and I stumbled (and I do mean that) into
CyberMess(up your dumbass head) and here is my review/preview (of hell):

Okay, so we were weak.  We wantedto go to Aurgasm, was shocked (I almost
laughed) when they told us it was nine bucks....for King Street?  Excuse
me?  I looked inside and I saw the 5 people Larry was talking about and
said...ahh, no, we are going to jump up and down and enjoy ourselves
outside.  Actually, the music sounded really bad for some reason, so we 
found out from some random lost ravers about the Wicked thing...apparently
they made $5,000 and wanted to throw a party to throw a party.  Cool, 
we thought.  What a great time.  See, we had gone to that beach thing earlier,
which had a whole lot of no one show up, and while that place is so cool,
I mean, it is really cool, and none of you were there....why?  You missed
a lot...acutally, I am pulling your chiain, the cops showed up around 7
or so.  So we ate time for awhiland drove by the CyberStuff and laughed....that was around 10
o clock.  CyberPhlegm had all sorts of neato things..l.they
had a big dog head for a bit that really messed me up, actually.
They had a crazy laser that you could see for miles, so we laughed,
thinking we had a lot to do that night.

Okay, the long and the short of it was--we ended up going to this
monstrosity, due to some major chemically impaired judgements--
you see, we thought we could make it a good party if we just
had fun ourselves.  
People--
no matter how high you are, you will not make a party like that
seem good to you, your head, your body, your friends--no.
It cannot happen.  It will not happen.  The dance floors should have
come with dust masks (as so eloquently explained in that cool
message dotted with "dust"'s....
So, music was all right.  Dan was (I admit) pretty good, FAST
mixer, Tony ruled.  Naked guy on the speakers was one of the 
hopeless clueless, as eluded to earlier.
Sooo, let's see.  That's horrible.  Umm...yes.  We uh, we stood
for awhile, we watched some very young people get way too
high (now how did they sneak all those drugs in with the 
double teamed security?)  Some very misplaced Solid Gold
dancers, and obverpriced (they wanted _$5_ for that cool
swing thing) rides....but Pete was there, so we had fun talking
to HIM.  If any of you wanted to buy anything you wanted, they
literally had a mall there.
Bad bad...I was very depressed.

Enough.

Okay, we had a good post by Jon about Garage House and 
Progressive house, etc.  Now, can we get some song titles 
that we can figure out what we are talking about?  Jon,
your tape is dope, so what were you spinning, anyway?

So, am I to think that there are no beach parties and no park
parties?  Lee was the source of a fine park party a couple of
months ago with his boom box thing.  If we want to do that, 
do that!

Ummm...not much more to say except I will be at Housing Project
and Unity.

So I hope to see some of you there...

enjoy 

m

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 20:25:24 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (leah)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 19:07:00 -0700
Subject: Re: repeat messages?

I am... lots and lots and lots of them... ???

always, leah



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 20:51:46 1993
From: inhuman@mindvox.phantom.com (Inhuman)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 23:01:27 EDT
Subject: Re: A cool quote...

Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com> writes:

> pete reiter quotes:
> >	"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"
> 
> william s burroughs.
> 
> /jon

Sure this quote is catchy and sounds cool and all, but it's one of the 
stupidest anti-intellectual things I've ever heard.

You might just as easily say "Talking about food is like cooking about 
politics."

We're human.  We talk.  We analyze.  This is good and healthy, and 
perhaps one of the main purposes of sf-raves and similar mailing lists.  
If you just want to go to raves and say "The music is sacred!  It cannot 
be analyzed or broken down!" then fine, but I don't see why you would 
want to be on a communication-oriented verbally-exclusive mailing list 
like sfraves.

BTW- I'll be in San Francisco in four days!  I can't wait to see/meet you 
all!

Michael                 |  groovin' in the chocolate city!
(inhuman@phantom.com)   |  <PGP Key Available Upon Request>

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 20:54:05 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 19:35:39 -0700
Subject: Re: repeat messages?

Hi all... sorry about the repeat messages, and it looks like the culprit
is a machine in Australia, believe it or not.  I'll explain below, but 
first let me say I'm just seeing it now coz I've been asleep all day...
I removed to only .au address from the sfraves alias so it should be
fixed by now, but there might be a few more posts in the queue so please
be patient...

Sheesh, no rest for the wicked indeed! :)

Also, at the bottom of this message I'm appending a letter a dear friend
sent me  - I've removed the headers and attributions but I think his
message is still quite clear.

Anyways, here's the culprit:

>From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU Wed Jul 21 17:19:12 1993
Received: from techno.Stanford.EDU by soda.berkeley.edu (5.65/KAOS-1)
	id AA02443; Wed, 21 Jul 93 17:19:06 -0700
Received: by techno.Stanford.EDU (4.1/1.34)
	id AA11213; Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:08:39 PDT
Received: from MUWAYB.UCS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU by techno.Stanford.EDU (4.1/1.34)
	id AA11210; Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:08:33 PDT
Received: from werple.apana.org.au by muwayb.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (PMDF V4.2-11
 #4399) id <01H0TVIMBO6O00277F@muwayb.ucs.unimelb.edu.au>; Thu,
 22 Jul 1993 04:07:21 +1000
Received: from lsupoz.UUCP by werple.apana.org.au with UUCP id AA28122
 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 22 Jul 1993 03:15:08 +1000
Received: by lsupoz.apana.org.au (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0oIT6v-0005JbC; Wed,
 21 Jul 93 11:36 AEST
Received: from techno.Stanford.EDU by sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (5.65c/1.34) id
 AA24693; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 10:59:25 +1000
Received: by techno.Stanford.EDU (4.1/1.34) id AA26702; Sun,
 18 Jul 93 17:38:52 PDT
Received: from nkosi.well.sf.ca.us by techno.Stanford.EDU (4.1/1.34) id
 AA26696; Sun, 18 Jul 93 17:38:32 PDT
Received: from well.sf.ca.us (well.sf.ca.us [192.132.30.2]) by
 nkosi.well.sf.ca.us (8.3/8.3) with SMTP id RAA17053; Sun,
 18 Jul 1993 17:38:31 -0700
Received: by well.sf.ca.us id <14335-2>; Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:38:01 -0700
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:37:56 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?
(blah blah blah....)

If you trace the route from bottom to top, you see it goes from the
Well to sfraves.stanford.edu to AUSTRALIA, bounces around a couple 
machines there, then comes back to sfraves.stanford and out again.
The only .au address on the list was "sfraves@nschq.navy.gov.au" - 
an address which was serving as a local bounce site for some reason.
What the Australian Navy wants to know about raves in San Francisco is
beyond me, and this is pure fodder for those of you out there with
conspiracy theories :)  But anyways, I removed that address, so when I
hear back from them I'll know more.  One possibility is that someone
put "sfraves@sfraves.stanford.edu" in the alias accidentally, creating
a feedback loop.  Thank god the mail routers are relatively slow - had
the feedback loop been very fast we would have seen THOUSANDS of repeat
messages! :)

Anyways, it's fixed now, hopefully....

okay, here's the letter.  Please read it.



Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 19:01:09 PDT
To: sfraves-request@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Ack...


This is just ridiculous Brian.  People send out mail to the sfraves list for
the most incredibly stupid things.  A typical RFC822 mail header is about
12-15 lines long.  I see people send out messages with bodies that are 3-4
lines long.  It's totally ridiculous.  I just can't deal with it anymore.  I
know I sound uptight, but I already deal with enough naive users as it is
without having to deal with anymore.

*I* don't send out meaningless flames everytime I something I marginally 
disagree with.  Neither do I send out mail correcting every little flaw I see.
I don't understand why I should ever need to see more than 1-2 messages a
day from people.

To be honest sfraves seems more like a "chat" BBS or IRC these days that a
useful forum for discussion.

Please leave me on the calendar only list as well as the sfraves-planners,
but please please please take me off the main list.  It's too much.

Thanks Bri.

Take Care,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just food for thought.  

	Brian



From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 21:25:01 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 22:04:04 CDT
Subject: Re: repeat messages?



Begin forwarded message:

From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
To: scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com, tschulze@cisco.com
Subject: Re: repeat messages?
Cc: sfraves@medisg.Stanford.EDU
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 18:23:51 -0700

Tons of repeats from the last week . . .

--

You Too.?!?  Annoying ain't it....

--Kurt


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 21:29:34 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 19:54:04 PDT
Subject: Penelope's Web needs Help



	Penelope's Web may not go off.
	The site is in Willits a 3 hour drive from here and
	the promoters are getting cold feet after the imagination 
	fiasco.  They are wondering how many folks will attempt 
	a three hour drive once again to the hinterlands for a 24 hour
	party, especially with BASICS the night before... anyway Melissa is
	holding a meeting on friday evening at her house to decide the fate
	of the event. Call her at (415)988-0299 or e-mail me if you would like
	to attend.  Shredder has donated the sound and that is a firm commitment,
	The owner of the land now wants $2000 deposit to insure against damage :)
	She is not certain that there is enough momentum around now to pull this
	event off.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 23:24:58 1993
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 22:29:27 PDT
Subject: Talking about music is like dancing about you know wot...

Bravo, Inhuman!

It  *is* especially ironic that folx on sfraves
invoke this quote because they are par excellence
the most voluble music wordsmiths I've ever encountered!
And...I wouldn't have it any other way, so this ain't
no flame!

World's most recently mute sfraver,
Will

-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 21 23:30:52 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 22:05:45 -0700
Subject: This week's rave guide

	Well after the bad karma last weekend hopefully we can give our
long-resting luv phasors a chance to blast away at Unity, the second
ComeUnity party to raise money for the M.O'Brien Healing Fund and raise
our hopes of bringing together the growingly disparate elements of our
scene.  After a long series of questions and struggles to get a site, it
looks like it will be at the site of the last party, the Richmond Civic
Center, which is a really good place (I especially like the non-21+
aspect :).  Let's proove to ourselves that last weekend was a fluke by 
making this party as groovy as we can!

*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     Last modified: 07/21/93
*****************************************************************************

Friday, July 23rd - A Family Reunion
        Ghost (back from England), Carlos, Frank Nitty, Smiles, Dutch
        Visuals by Josh, sound by Harry.
        Romper Room/Elmo Celebration - 415-884-ABCD

Friday, July 23rd - Invision, a "multimedia dance event" - smoke and
	alcohol free, all ages, in San Rafael - 415-257-3882 9pm-??

Saturday, July 24th - The Bay Area House Nation presents Unity
	Carlos  Dutch  Garth  Gavan  Jan Cooley  Jeno  Scott Hardkiss  Simon
	415.995.4935  	408.236.2072	510.464.5980

Friday, July 30th - Juice  1 yr anniversary - 540 Howard St (DV8)
	Evil Eddie Richards(UK)  Mr.Koolaid (LA)
	Buck  Spun  Ernie  Ghost  Dutch  Carlos 
	$12 - 415.905.8801  408.236.3430

Saturday, July 31st - Flem Globber
        Phil Smart, DJ Dan, Carlos, Dutch, Ghost
        415-773-9431  510-727-6675  408-746-2157  916-553-9755

Saturday, July 31st thru Sunday Aug. 1st - Penelope's Web
	presented by One Nation Productions and Your Sisters' House
	415-765-7671 (warning - this is not a voice-mail #, do not call
	this at night!)

Saturday, July 31st - BASICS reunion
        Josh  Markie  Tony  Doran  Garth  Wool
        (415)905 9629, 18+, in San Francisco

Saturday, August 7th - Where the Wild Things Are
	Ernie  Markie Mark  Buck  Spun  Tony  Noel
	415.979.8867	408.450.8537

Friday, August 13 - Sunday, August 15 - Festivahl
        Homegrown Love Mission in association w/ Sharon, l.P. Productions,
        Black Sun Rising & Sudzy Blunt Music, and the SF Cultural Assoc.
        A community Festivahl in celebration of music, peace, life, love,
        unity, free spirit & mind.
        Camp and party all weekend on beautiful wooded campgrounds encircled
        by a gorgeous flowing river.
        Bring family, drums, tents, etc.  Be prepared and waste conscious.
        Global Issues Pow-Wow Saturday & Sunday Afternoon.
        408-450-9799  415-974-9707  510-988-8858  916-558-0050  209-469-3161

Saturday, August 14th - Origin: Deep Within the Spirit of Dance
	Spun, Tony, Josh, Jase, and Doran - 415.905.8831

Saturday, August 21st - Wicked - 415.512.5713

Saturday, September 4th - Massive Culture
        A unique festival with live music and your favorite DJs.
        2pm-infinity - 408-496-1780  415-979-5097

Saturday, September 18th - Universe - more details as they become available.
	415-771-9525

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other goodwill 
	thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
        Also for the latest info on Mal you can dial (415) 241-1560.
        Every one's positive energy is DEFINITELY paying off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by fliers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their 
appropriateness in being on the list, let me know....

Thursdays

YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 415-765-7670
	7/22 - Christine, Shobhan, Jan Cooley
Lush - Chris Lum & Ernie Munson - 715 Harrison @ 3rd	21+
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - Rick Preston, others
Shine - Djs Jelly & Jay-J + guests - 683 Clementia 
Zanzibar - Acid jazz and house.  DJ Suki.  (415) 695-7887.
Primal - Tribal, Techno, trance Dj's Lewis and Bryan Hughes - 9th and Harrison
Dog House (presented by Family Dog) 8-2am  261 California Ave, Burlingame - 21+
Virgin Mary - jan cooley, dutch, larry jr. - 2000 K street, Sacramento - 21+
ZONE - Future Thru Retro - house trance techno 70's funk - 55 Natoma, 21+
Capital F - weekly guests - $2 - 21+ 10-2AM - 668 Haight @ Pierce

Fridays

Mission Rock - DJ's James, Gavin & others - 17th and Illinois. 415-241-8862 21+
Zanzibar - DJ Josh. 415-695-7887.  842 Valencia @ 19th St.
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300 21+
Soul System - 16th & Harrison, $5 [7/23 - mark farina, harry who, alfie, dani]
Splash - 4am-12pm, Club O, 278 11th @ Folsom    FREE
Housing Project - 6am-1pm End Up 401 6th @ Harrison 21+ 
Corduroy City [begins july 30 - Ernie, Mark Farina, Jon Williams] 415.974.9715

Saturdays 

Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - noon - blondies, 540 valencia@16th 415.487.6246
Nature - sound factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st - $10 21+ 10pm-7am (415)543-0101
	resident djs pete avila/doc martin/neon leon/jack de la rosa/aaron o
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762
The Fridge - Bassment of Big Heart City - DJ's Simon Jeno Thomas - 415-487-6305

Sundays

EndUp from 6am - 6th & Harrison
AfterLife - 6am-2pm 375 11th st * Dj Simon, Ernie * Smart Bar * Chill Room
Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 6am-2pm - breakfast cafe upstairs - 415-979-8845
Zanzibar - 1pm-9pm - James, Gavin, and Felix playing a mix of House and Funk
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 - DJ's Scott & Robbie, Digs & Woosh, 
        Tickets at both Bulletproof locations 629 Haight (255.7168)
        & upstairs at BPM  1141 Polk (567.8439)
Tilt-a-Whirl (the nighttime version) @ Thunder Bay, Berkeley - 415-647-GRUV 
Nickie's (460 Haight) full house w/dj - 10pm-2am, 21+

Mondays 
Depth Chamber - 1190 Folsom @ 8th - 9-2am, 21+, (415)241-1560
Pepper.Deep House with Buck, Josh, Chris Lum. 668 Haight, 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 

Tuesdays 
Together - Basement of Big Heart City (339 Jessie)415-979-8825

Wednesdays 
Housing Project - 9-330am @ 401 6th st / harrison - 21+
Recycle - 16th & Harrison - 18+ - 415-599-3750.
Boing - 201 Ninth at Howard - $2 b-4 12, $3 after - DJ Bugie w DRC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONNECTION 2 TAPES >> 4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr >>
contact Bob Ramstad boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com >>
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund >>
also at Tower Records Mountain View with the techno tapes
corner of San Antonio and El Camino Real
they have a Dali print with tigers on the front - $24.99 + tax
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

RADIO SHOWS: 

Saturday mornings 1-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Francesco & Unknown KZSU, 90.1 FM. 
Tuesdays 7:30-10:00pm - 103.3fm KSCU Pete Gracious + special guest djs
Wednesdays 10pm - KFJC, Foothill College (Santa Clara)
Thursdays, 7-9 on 91.3 FM KCPR San Luis Obispo - Beyond Techno, DJ EZ Whip.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351
  and
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 02:11:01 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 22:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fair Fare?


-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 02:17:00 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 13:55:51 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Track listing???

Does anyone know what the tracks are on Garth's CD?

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 02:21:32 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 06:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Face ID


I'm verbally challenged, I guess ...

 Will Auburn's boyfriend please email me? You were so kind to let me sleep
on your couch after Aurgasm , and the yogurt drink was good too. 

 I got your name wrong in my original Aurgasm Interruptus posting , and
now I can't come up with a name that I have confidence in. (Pat?). I
have this trouble with most people - I think it's stunted my social
life :-( . 

 Faces I usually recognize - I guess I'm more visual than verbal.

					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com


-- 

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 02:49:00 1993
From: menchett@cs.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 12:00:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Custom stickers available


Custom-made vinyl bumper stickers and labels

I silkscreen vinyl stickers. They have a variety of uses, great for:

	-shamelessly plastering the town, plugging your next rave
	-bands
	-record labels
	-political campaigns
	-businesses
	-product labels
	-clubs
	-general promotion

I can put most any design on a high quality, weatherproof 
vinyl sticker. For details on prices, available colors, and
general information, email menchett@cs.unr.edu.

If you know someone who would be interested, please
contact me so that I can get in touch with them.

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 02:58:04 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 07:13:43 -0700
Subject: House Nation paused for a comeback

Seriously, I hope that many of you don't think that because of a bad
weekend, or should I say, one that was not up to par, that this signals the
imminent death of the scene here.  That is bullshit!  What is happening (as
I mentioned in a previous post), is the summertime blues.  Happened last
year, and it looks like this years gonna be a repeat.  Some of the
promoters you know and trust are on hiatus, or doing word of mouth parties
(underground).  This summer will pass, and thigs will get back to normal
quickly.  The other thing is after 3 years of parties (some of you less,
and some more), you have come to expect much more out of a party.  Whether
its people having their stuff together, a good vibe, excellent music.  This
is a good thing, and will only make the Fall/Winter months even more fun. 
All of this stuff (bad whatever) will pass and things will get back to
normal, until then stay cool, calm, and always selective!

P.S. I've already begun top notice that some of you are making plans for
Universe...interesting.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+          Yes, there is no disclaimer, there is no disclaimer today...    +
+                    from the village of jsl@netcom.com                    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 03:20:49 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 10:56:34 -0700
Subject: kool electric billboard hacking spotted on 101 South!


on sunday night I was driving back from Palo Alto --> SF and noticed a
big electric sign that reads "Hillsdale" in huge illuminated letters...
except that all the letters except "LSD" had been extinguished....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 03:25:25 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 15:02:39 -0400
Subject: Connection II .... just got my tapes


SfRavers...
I just got through the Connection II tapes from boccibob....WoW! This is 
serious music. Man, your DJs put it together sweet & fine; perfect. Thanks,
Bob (lost your address) and glad to contribute towards Malachy's fund.

Now can somebody sorta kinda tag some DJ names to the different tapes/sides?
I'd really like to know who's spinning (from 3000 miles away, I read about
your scene daily through a glass screen...and now have heard your music :) 
and it's awesome).

I'd be interested in any comments on the tapes, or a target date of the 
threads on the list so that I can hunt C II info down in the archives. Peace.
harry

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 03:30:28 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 09:46:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bored and Wanna Make Bubbles??

>Hmm, at the Ozrics gig i went to at the Kilburn National, they had a
>couple of bubble machines, above the stage.  The looked much like fog
>machines, but made bubbles instead of fog.  I thought it was pretty
>cool...  Never seen them before or since though...

the bubbles that these things produce are really oily and sticky.
very unpleasant if they get on you.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 03:34:23 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 09:43:38 -0700
Subject: Re: water

Rocky Mullin writes:
	>there *must* be a law on the books that a bar or dancing
	>establishment needs to provide water free of charge...
	>and make it a crime to purposely deny the flow of free
	>water... like shutting down fountains.  it seems to me
	>that at dancing kind of places, water is a necessity just
	>like emergency exits are a necessity.

I don't know if there is such a law. Way back when I first started 
going clubbing (long before I turned 21) The dance clubs used to 
charge for water because they weren't making money from us from alcohol.


vivianm

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 03:39:44 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 12:26:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: House Nation paused for a comeback

Howard reminds us that
> the raves in the park alone make last summer
> tough to beat. 

So does *anyone* know what the status with GG Park is?  According
to my very indirect sources, there is nothing preventing these
from happening right now; it's just that noone wants to be bothered 
with the hassle of doing it.  I would donate $$ & time to see get
it going again, or at least have *one*.  It would definately help the
scene to have these happen once in a while.

- leg of eel

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 03:44:13 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 22:03:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re:  whistle boy! (fwd)

Forwarded message:
> From: ceti.csustan.edu!rsammuli@nexsys.net (Robert Sammuli)
> Message-Id: <9307200146.AA02475@ceti.csustan.edu>
> Subject: Re:  whistle boy!
> 
> There is a new user on the net.   I suggest we flame him.   His comments are
> good and very meaningful but I believe he has to broken in.   I believe he
> has never been flamed before.   The exp. would do him good.   He's a little
> cocky and arrogant and a bit cynical and highly satirical.   Please forward
> this message for he is a good friend Of mine and it's part of the sick jokes
> good friends play in order to strengthen the good laughs of are fellow friends.
 Err - I deleted his posting already , so what's his email address?

 Also - give him time ... eventually , anybody who expresses their opinion
gets singed a little or a lot. No need to go out of your/our way.

 Lastly - how will he be able to tell the difference between a real flame
and our "friendly" bogus ones? 

					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 


-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 03:48:36 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 09:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: House Nation paused for a comeback

john lee supposes:

>What is happening (as I mentioned in a previous post), is the
>summertime blues.  Happened last year, and it looks like this years
>gonna be a repeat.

i don't know where you got this notion from - cos last summer was
*incredible*.  at least, i went to dozens of parties with vibe to
spare.  let freedom rave, where's waldo, basics all spring to mind
instantly.  i bet if i went through last summer's sfraves archives i'd
remember some more.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 03:52:59 1993
From: peyote@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 22:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: major dissonance over weekend

...or what?  i didn't rave this weekend
doesn't look like i shouda either or so it seems reading
all the posts.  i imagi-dreamed last nite that i kept trying
to get to a rave but you had to write something kewl to get
in - all my dream messages weren't up to snuff so on to the
next map point *THE WHOLE DREAM WAS LIKE THIS* seems even in my
dreams i couldn't rave.  just a natural fact sometimes.


__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ peyote@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]

   The CyberDen - Public Access Waffle Usenet System - 415/472-5527

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 04:10:04 1993
From: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 01:24:41 -0700
Subject: Repeat mail ?

Is anyone getting copies of messages about copies of messages ?

( OK! I know, this is a silly post, I am a silly person, and I do fun oriented
	Silly things... This is also an Antiflame... the good will and laugh
	I am sending is to counteract all of the negative flamemail that will
	No doubt erupt over this temporary belch in the mail system. So There! 
	* Grin Laugh *   )

**Disclaimer **
	Any attempts at taking me 100% seriously will be met with an
	uninterupted laugh, full of life. further flaming will be
	met with this nifty switch on my modem :)

And something Neat I heard in passing .....

	" I am Porky Pig of Borg. You will be assimi.. Assimi.. Assimi..
	    you will be joined with us "

			- Delchi

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 04:25:34 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <wing@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 01:52:24 -0700
Subject: Re: uhh...what? 

In message <827EC4C9400013A6@SCUACC.SCU.EDU> you write:
>This is what I read:                                                          
> 
>Come Dance at INVISION, the Bay Area's only conscious multimedia dance        
> 
>event!  INVISION features the hottest dance music from modern dance before    
> 
>midnight to ambient, tribal and funky techno after midnight, fantasy          
> 
>lights, toasted video, cool multimedia lounge all in a smoke and alcohol      
>                                                                              
> 
>free invironment.  Call 415 257-3882 for details and location!               
>"I walked into the dance room and the energy was so intense I felt like I
>was making love!"                                                             
>                        
>                        
>                        
>did someone type this off of Live 105?  What is that all about?  Sounds
>WEAK.  please!!!! s top stop stop stop
>
>it is Pop the Chompy.
>

Hmm ...  I think I saw a flyer for this club some weeks ago ...  I wonder if
this is the same club in Marin County?  If so, you may find -- yes, that's
right -- Steve Masters doing the DJ'ing!

ben
---
"... then the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was
more painful than the risk it took to blossom." -- Anais Nin

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 04:25:20 1993
From: ROCKMAN <cmkoski@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 16:05:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Need Help...

I know this is a rave list and I don't want to break the flow here, but I
am in need of an internet address for the group They Might Be Giants, or
if anyone knows if I can access TMBG through some network, let me know.  I
am starting a fan club and I need a cheap way of communicating with these
folks...


ROCKMAN


##############################      
########              ########   COME TO CANADA -- CHECK OUT OUR BEAVERS! :)
########     _/\_     ########
########  _|\|  |/|_  ########   ALL VISITORS WELCOME!!!
########  \ CANADA /  ########
########   /__  __\   ########   FOR TRAVEL INFO, CONTACT:  ROCKMAN
########      ||      ########
########              ########   @ INTERNET:  CMKOSKI@THUNDER.LAKEHEADU.CA
##############################



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 05:01:01 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:12:47 BST
Subject: Re: Friday JULY 23, Come DANCE at INVISION


  vivianm> I just called because I was curious. Why do you have to pay
  vivianm> $15 if you are over 21 and only $10 if you are under 21?

Because people under 21 will (typically) have less money than people
over 21.  Same reason that children get into the cinema cheaper than
adults...

Presumably they feel they can't afford to let everyone in for $10,
but they feel that $15 might discourage young people, so they give
them a discount.  The cynical answer is that this way they get more
people, and hence make more money.  The charitable answer is that they
don't want to feel that they're excluding younger people.  The truth
is probably a mixture of the two.


	roy


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 08:55:51 1993
From: ceti.csustan.edu!rsammuli@nexsys.net (Robert Sammuli)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 18:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re:  whistle boy!

There is a new user on the net.   I suggest we flame him.   His comments are
good and very meaningful but I believe he has to broken in.   I believe he
has never been flamed before.   The exp. would do him good.   He's a little
cocky and arrogant and a bit cynical and highly satirical.   Please forward
this message for he is a good friend Of mine and it's part of the sick jokes
good friends play in order to strengthen the good laughs of are fellow friends.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 09:00:50 1993
From: Roy Badami <harlequin.co.uk!roy@nexsys.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 13:21:49 -0300 (BST)
Subject: Re: Weekend report:Dangerous Visions

>>>>> On Mon, 19 Jul 93 14:26:53 PDT, geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White) said:

  Geoff> It will take some really good event (ravey or otherwise) for
  Geoff> me to believe that the Scene as we have come to know and love
  Geoff> it, is not truely comming to and end.  (I do think it can be
  Geoff> save however)

I'm not sure I believe this.  I've heard it so many times now, that
I'm beginning to regard it much like "imenent death of usenet
predicted".  

As long as there are ravers, there will be raves.

The scene may change, but it won't die.  It may at times be small and
week, and go underground, and at other times, it may be stronger and
larger, and get mainstream attention, but whatever happens, we will
continue to party...


	Cosmic

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 09:05:05 1993
From: Fred Heutte <well.sf.ca.us!phred@nexsys.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 21:07:35 -0700
Subject: Re:  Mission: Protect The Undergorund Realm

I've been at great events that were flyered only by hand on scribbled
pieces of paper, and I've been to real duds.  I've been to excellent
events flyered with 4-color classic flyers . . . but I've been to
more duds of that type, so it's not entirely symmetric :)

Universe in the UK has a great rep, they are gearing up for September.
I am looking here at absolutely huge, colorful, very expensive ads
in the UK scene magazines for their events.  They work very well from
all I've heard.  I've also heard that some of the massive multi-tent
outdoor events there are really terrible.

There is no dividing line between renegade and commercial, as several
of the organizing posses have shown.  What matters is intention. . .
and the truth will out, eventually, but not  before a good many of
the punters (like moi this weekend) shell out  our $20 to take our
chances and learn something about the extremes of the bell curve.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 09:09:31 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 05:09:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Mission: Protect The Undergorund Realm

> 
> Well fellow brothers and sisters, I think we've all learned our lessons
> and from now on it  is our turn the subjects of the underground realm to
> decide which promoters are commercial($$$$$$) and which are in more for the
> love of the Underground Ravedom. Think about that!!!!!!

How true.



> 
> I suggest the follwing (reminder: they are only suggestions and please put input
> on this):
> 
> 1) the less the general population hears or gets flyers from the Underground
> Promoters the less likely the chance of a true gathering bieng cancelled; after
> all isn't "Underground Scene" meant to emphasize that such spontaneous gathering
> s are kept secret from the general population. So be responsible and aware to wh
> om
> whom you hand flyers out to not to mention be selective as far as do you know if
>  f
> the person you're handing a flyer to or talking about a rave is an Underground
> Subject with 100% loyalty to our Ravedom.

Unfortunately for these events, I must agree, you have to be selective,
this might be considered elitist but...  well, when I first started raving,
I was not privy to the really underground parties, it took time for 
people to observe me, build trust, know where I was coming from etc.  For
some, the stakes are high,  It's not just a question of whether he or she
is cool or not, It's more a question of wheather you can count on a person
to "have your back" as my Oaktown Homeboy brothers would say.  When the 5-Oh
is at the door, or in the parking lot, kicking ass, and taking names, you want
to feel like you've got mostly "family" around you, people who won't bolt
or breakdown under a little pressure.  Underground events are just that,
underground, they are illegal by there very nature if not technically so.
You need people around you who can opperate in an autonomous yet co-operative
fashion.  These kind of events build up webs of trust.  You learn what each
person in your group is capable of, what their breaking point is how far they
will go...  If the times get more opressive, you need to know who you can
count on when the shit hits the fan.  This is why we need to continue to have
underground events and why they need to STAY underground!!

> 
> 2) Communication!!!!!!! thats the key word here. Who are the promoters, are they
> a bunch of people who really know what they are doing or what are their intentio
> ns greed($$$$$$) or music. I think someone should research and come up with
> a list of current promoters who have done an absolutly awsome job all around.
> That way when promoters do advertise their event we can say " ...hmmm! this guy
> is the one who ........ and these guys.........so I will go to......." get the
> picture???

There are problems with this, some promoters have different skills,
some promoters are consistant at throwing good, legal, above ground parties
that have most of the transformative force of a well planned and executed
underground.  Most of the hardcore know promoters like this, things like
the Gathering, Basics, Vision have had few duds and the vibe has been
consistantly high.  Martin's large parties are usually a success although
he has not had good luck with smaller things that he's thrown.

If you like the type of party and crowd that goes to a Sharon, they seem
to be fairly consistant, I have my problems with the promoter however.

The problem is that just because your intentions are pure and you are
totally devoted to the vibe, that doesn't mean you have the focus or
business sense to execute good consistant parties.  Some promoters have
networks of people, similar to the way that the Jamacan drug posses
operate, where you know who you know, and all of your members are not
clearly defined to the outside world, (sorta like a C++ object with
public and private data elements :),  these groups can often do well
because they have people in the group who can make up the deficiencies
of other members.  Some of these groups can throw good undergrounds
and fairly consistant parties, they use their undergrounds as adverts
for the paying parties and visa versa, Wicked is sort of in this mold,
the FMR is their "ritual", It's what they do to remember why they are here
and to renew their commitment every 28 days to the scene and to each other,
It's much more that just a free party to them, its a way to solidify their
bond to each other, give back a little to the house community and spread
the Vibe out to new commers, if you can find it, and you stay the course,
the FMR can be a very rewarding experience.  They are also committed to 
having high quality, above ground parties in the City of
San Francisco,  I think for several reasons; They are dedicated to deseminating
their interpretation of The Vibe and always making that path available to
new people coming into the scene,  they also need to make a living, as this
is their life's work, their Tao or Dharma so to speak.




> 
> 3)Please keep the Underground Realm underground!!! If any promoter does co decid
> e
> to commercialize use your "right" to boycott, and maybe that way all those
> religous, politically corrupt, ignorant bunch of non-democratic assholes(pardon
> me Francais) will not point any nasty fingers at "...those horrible sinical
> drug addicted school drop out get a life ravers..." (yeah right) they are the
> ones that cause the most problem if they start accusing us instead of the
> promoters who cook up some get rich quik scam without any consideration for the
> future generation of the Underground.

There will always be an underground. Even if House music is totally
co-opted (as is Rap today) there will ALWAYS  be an underground.
Remember, House was born in the Regan/Bush era, one of the darkest
times for free speech and thought in american history.  It survived by
having the power to subvert, without words!  In a time when words were
being attacked, censored, twisted and mis-used.  While presidents
quoted the lyrics made fameous by rock stars,  and appropriated songs
like "Don't worry, be happy", House Music, with little, obtuse, silly,
or no words, was out there getting the job done!  Turning on and waking
up Young America.  It came from a sector of the population that had
been left for dead, that of gay, black males.  Out of the darkness
often comes the light.  I remember in 1986 while I was living in
Boston, someone had been to Chicago and had brought some house music
records and DJs back to Boston, he told me that House music would be
the next major musical trend and that it would transform the world with
it's vibe, I listened to him and listened to the music, but didn't get
it.  There was no substance, no words, how could this new type of
"disco" music do anything like that...

I wish I could find that person today. 

But there was an underground then, it was just not as accesible as it
is now, and if this current glimmer of light that we are now
experiencing in this country turns out to be just swamp gas :), The
underground will go deeper, but it will always be there, you just have
to have patience, diligence, and be committed to the search.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 09:09:37 1993
From: koko.csustan.edu!hsarbaz@nexsys.net (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:06:06 -0700
Subject: Mission: Protect The Undergorund Realm

Well fellow brothers and sisters, I think we've all learned our lessons
and from now on it  is our turn the subjects of the underground realm to
decide which promoters are commercial($$$$$$) and which are in more for the
love of the Underground Ravedom. Think about that!!!!!!

I suggest the follwing (reminder: they are only suggestions and please put input
on this):

1) the less the general population hears or gets flyers from the Underground
Promoters the less likely the chance of a true gathering bieng cancelled; after
all isn't "Underground Scene" meant to emphasize that such spontaneous gathering
s are kept secret from the general population. So be responsible and aware to wh
om
whom you hand flyers out to not to mention be selective as far as do you know if
 f
the person you're handing a flyer to or talking about a rave is an Underground
Subject with 100% loyalty to our Ravedom.

2) Communication!!!!!!! thats the key word here. Who are the promoters, are they
a bunch of people who really know what they are doing or what are their intentio
ns greed($$$$$$) or music. I think someone should research and come up with
a list of current promoters who have done an absolutly awsome job all around.
That way when promoters do advertise their event we can say " ...hmmm! this guy
is the one who ........ and these guys.........so I will go to......." get the
picture???

3)Please keep the Underground Realm underground!!! If any promoter does co decid
e
to commercialize use your "right" to boycott, and maybe that way all those
religous, politically corrupt, ignorant bunch of non-democratic assholes(pardon
me Francais) will not point any nasty fingers at "...those horrible sinical
drug addicted school drop out get a life ravers..." (yeah right) they are the
ones that cause the most problem if they start accusing us instead of the
promoters who cook up some get rich quik scam without any consideration for the
future generation of the Underground.

Please feel free to add on or give your opinions on this matter and maybe just
maybe we will be able to stay Underground and have more fun in the near future..
. what do you think.....hehehe!!!

                                Rave-Forever, Hoss Wislboy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 09:11:06 1993
From: Fred Heutte <well.sf.ca.us!phred@nexsys.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 19:04:23 -0700
Subject: Re:  Weekend report:Dangerous Visions

Well, thanks to Geoff for his amazing  post.  I spent  all day yesterday
wandering around SF waiting for the Wicked line to be updated with what
ever was happening, since I sensed exactly what he said -- that everyone
was jonesing to spin the good vibe in all the ways that needs to happen.
And since the message was never updated (it still has the 3:30 am
Sunday morning version) I figured either something had started and
not really happened, or nothing at all.  I figured the weekend was
pretty much a loss but  then I didn't go through what Geoff and the
others did, which makes my disappointment seem pretty puny!

The freedom and flexibility of the early days is being lost, it's
just the flipside of success, in many respects.  The scene is not
firmly established; it slips and slides and occasionally, like this
weekend, goes flat.  But what other group of people will go through
hell, high water, fundamentalist weirdos, cop trips, club attitudes,
and all the rest?  Only the ones who *know* what's at the end of the
rainbow, coz we've been there.  

Have you ever seen Brian Eno's board game?  I don't have a copy of
it here, but  basically it has directions for dealing with frustration
and uncertainty.  Roll the dice and move three positions.  The square
says, "Do the opposite of your first inclination."  Or "List three
things and do them in reverse order."  I don't even remember the
actual entries, but it was like those.  The idea is not to become
imprisoned in our own modes of thinking.  

The scene is not what we want it to be.  It is what it is.  But we
do have responsibility for our part of it and it's still within our
grasp to mold that part of it . . . as we are in fact doing.
Ain't it fun?  

Geoff didn't have much fun backing down that idiot on the beach, but
these are hard lessons and we all have to learn to laugh in the face
of adversity (I'm certainly not lecturing Geoff in this regard, you've
set a high standard for attitude here as always, bro).

I don't feel much like drawing big conclusions from all this right now;
this is from the heart.  We'll go on because we can and we should.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 09:11:35 1993
From: "Government with a body count." <WHITE@ccsua.ctstateu.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 11:51:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: eVoLuTiOn Of ThE tUnEs....


Hi SfRavers...

... Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com> sez.....

>harry white explodes across the silver screen in a nonstop orgy of
>bullets 'n' babes!!:

Hmmmm...excuse my ignorance, but I don't know what this means: a salutation
or a flame? [yikes...] :)  Please decode for an ignorant hyper Easterner?

>tweaky electronic dance music.  stuff that sounds like a computer's
>dreamstate.

OK, I went back and listened to your [HOT] grooves on C II...Wow, I can dig it,
the music makes it all clear. I never did like InterMix, but it sure sounds
good inside the SHARP side of the tape. As a matter of fact, your set is
IMHO the best of the collection.

>see, the thing is - i can't tell the difference between the best
>underground garage house track and worst top 40 pop house song.  they
>sound exactly the same!  the lyrics aren't any better, the melodies
>aren't any more sophisticated...  i just don't get it.

I guess I've been fortunate to have excellent DJ mentors, who showed
me how to avoid mindless groove traxx (Nervous Records, as awesome as
some of their traxx are, releases a *lot* of mind-numbing repetitious
music...BUT check out D.A.T. Project as an example of how _sweet_ it can be).

>i think there's major confusion over what exactly house is, these
>days.  most people here in SF use the word house as shorthand for
>garage house, which i think is the lowest form of music ever invented.
>but then there's serious chicago house, which, when vocal-less, can be
>really cool.

You played "Pump the Jumpin'" by Outdance on the SHARP set of C II. IYHO,
what type of dance is that? Chi-town? Deep? Let me know...

>and what about progressive house?  ok, it's a shitty term, but it's in
>widespread use.

In the East, Prog.House is stuff like Gat Decor, Sys7...  I can't figure 
it out! Gat Decor sure sounds like trance to me...

>>Do the Tressor comps meet your expectations?
>no, i think they're dead boring with a very few exceptions.

I concur...

>>And what's the problem with "wailing divas"? EVERY time I hear
>>Loleatta Holloway I just melt....

>i can't think of a more annoying sound.  a non-stop looped record of
>babies crying mixed with fingernails on a blackboard would be
>*infinitely* more enjoyable.

:(

>and it's not just wailing divas - i hate male soul philly vocal style
>too.  icky ptoo.  get it outta my headspace.  i like electronic
>mechanical repetitive sounds.  if the record sounds like there was a
>human involved in it, i don't want to hear it.

I can respect that :)  (obviously!), though I like both mechanix and vox...

>(PS: Freaky Chakra is still godlike.  Buy it today.)

I'll get it, thx. Finally, what do you think of Spooky's album "Gargantuan"?
Thanks, Jon... Peace to all...

harry

+---- --- -- - 							 - -- --- ----+
harry   	white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu    white@csusys.ctstateu.edu
		Central Connecticut State University, New Britain, CT 06050
		                  - -- -+- -- -
 "The real meaning of the word _educate_ is _to lead the way out_." -Anais Nin
+---- --- -- -  						 - -- --- ----+



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 09:14:08 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 07:39:53 PDT
Subject: Re: Weekend update, big party philosophy, and more

> 
> Sorry for being "gullible" to give people the benefit of the doubt, to
> at least give a concept a fighting chance and support it if it had the
> potential to be good.  So, is there NO hope for reconciliation between
> the Native Americans and the rave scene?  And if there is, isn't there
> an obligation to at least try it?  Instead of berating those who try,
> why don't people focus their energy on guiding the forces in action so
> that it does happen?  With all your connections to the Native Americans,
> Randy, why didn't you try and give Richard a hand in what was going on?
> Why was his operation doomed from the start?  So far the only real concrete
> thing I've heard is "pagan love fest", which I admit I can understand 
> their having a problem with and Richard probably could have done better
> than put that on the flyer.... 

Brian, please see my post about objectification...
The Native Americans on the tribal council are no more monolithic then "all white people"
please try to refrain from blanket statements when it comes to an ethnic or
cultural group, I know you know better.  Some christian native americans had a problem
with the whole event, they picked those things out of the flyer, as a formal point of
complaint.

> 
> The point stands, though, that while I and others were doing everything we
> felt we could in terms of supporting this venture (INCLUDING trying to
> include you in on a positive manner randy) and you did nothing but give us
> doomsday prophecies.  Richard may not be the most competant party planner
> but he certainly has his heart in the right place.  Can you really blame
> him if he goes through what he sees as the proper channels and gets 
> permission, only to have the rug pulled out from under his by intertribal 
> warring?  Yes, there is still a lot to blame on him, still a lot of backup
> work he could have done.  Richard just needs a good admiral who can focus 
> his energy and dreams into reality.  There were a LOT of people revved up
> to go out to Nevada.  
> 

Agreed here, but Richard in his zeal, should have done his homework.

> I didn't believe the claims of "pagan love fest".  I didn't believe the
> claims of thousands of people coming.  I don't think anyone did.  But 
> people did see that it had potential.  Wicked were solidly behind it.
> The idea of a party way out in the desert is kinda cool anyways, we on
> the list were thinking about it until we realized the logistics would 
> just be a nightmare - and Pete's party out in the desert west of Salt 
> Lake City was gorgeous.  And if we can make it a benefit for a culture
> we might have a strong affinity towards, all the better.  So I will 
> dispute any claim that the concept of I Magi Nation was fundamentally
> flawed.  I won't dispute that the planning and execution could have 
> been much better. If the American Natives had had THEIR house in order 
> things would have been much smoother too.

Well, It's their land and they don't have to rent it to a bunch of washikas
if they don't want too.  And as far as the Native Americans having THEIR house
in order, well... I'll just say that if indeed they did, then NONE of us would be
sitting here right now.  I think you need to read a little, try Bury my Heart at 
Wounded Knee.

> If you think Richard is "money-scamming promoter" you are dead wrong.
> It's slander as well as a lie.

Richard is not a money scamming promoter, he just needs compassionate, organizational,
help.


> 
> 
> 
> Okay, SATURDAY night:
> 
> 	My roommate Gregg was doing visuals for Aurgasm and he asked if
> I could help shuttle some other people with decorations for the club.  I
> said sure, figuring this would be my only chance of getting in to see the
> club anyways.  Now let me clear up any conflict-of-interest concerns you
> might have since I recommended Aurgasm in the calendar.  Neither Gregg nor
> I made or expected to make any money from this nor do we ever (well, I
> won't since I can't ever help set up there again...anyways).  The club
> was at 174 King because Mark had managed to work out a "I take door above
> $x, you take bar" money deal, which didn't work last week as the club didn't
> make over that $x... So after I put in a good 3 hours of effort in seeing
> this thing come together, I get carded...
> 
> DETOUR
> 
> 	I am 20 years old.  Hence, I can not be out past 2am in San Francisco,
> according to the law.  Hence, most of my dancing activity is either illegal
> or outside of San Francisco.  I refuse to get a fake ID however.  Why?  
> Because doing so is giving into the powers that be, when I know in my heart
> they are wrong.  If a club wants to be aggro about it, fine, I won't give them
> any of my vibe, their loss.  It's very similar to draft-card burning in the
> 60's.  This is my form of silent protest.
> 
> BACK ON TRACK
> 
> So I get thrown out, a little more ceremoniously than last week in LA, but
> thrown out nonetheless.  I felt bad because it really really looked gorgeous
> inside, and Mark Farina was scheduled to play and had blown me away the time
> before.  So I said hi to the SFRaves contigent outside the front waiting to
> get in, and drove off in search of a phone to call the Wicked hotline to see
> if the rumor of a renegade was coming true.
> 
> As for why Aurgasm was shut down - I think 174 King has been cursed, ever
> since Wicked was busted there.  No matter HOW good the intentions of the 
> promoters were (and in this case, they were VERY good) the club itself
> was the biggest deterrent.  No club held there will ever again be recommended
> by me.
> 
> So anyways, I found the phone, and the message was timestamped 11pm and said
> they'd be setting up in the parking lot of CyberFest at "16th and 3rd".  I
> drove over to Cindy's and we went in search of a "Penske rental truck". 
> This was approximately 1am.  NO ONE except a few parked cars at 3rd and 16th.
> We went towards the CyberFest site to have a look, much in the same way
> one slows down around a traffic accident.  What I saw surprised me - it
> actually looked like it had come together.  By all accounts this was going
> to be a three ring circus, and they delivered on that promise.  The music
> from the tents, particularly the bass, was bleeding into each other and well
> past the fences... 
> 
> PHILOSOPHIZING TIME
> 
> I said in my recommendations for the weekend that I couldn't find a
> good thing to say about CyberFest.  I was wrong.  I may have had
> trouble finding a good reason to go to it over I Magi Nation, but
> seeing the setup caused me to think a little.  I had talked to one of
> the people doing visuals for CyberFest at Mission Rock the night
> before, and when I made the comparison to Rave-a-Palooza, he said he
> preferred to think of it along the lines of the Exotic Erotic Ball,
> which for you non-SF people is a big ball held on Hallow'een for about
> 8,000 people, and by all accounts it's an... interesting event, lots
> of fun.  And he said, would you rather have 8,000 people listening to
> House music, good house music even... or Garth Brooks?  Not to
> disparage Mr. Brooks, but his point was clear - if a certain # of
> those who go to Cyberfest realize there is a whole world out there
> they didn't know about, the House nation, and decide to give it a try,
> and if a certain number of THOSE like what they see, and infuse new
> energy into it, it can ONLY be a good thing.  Now it'll be interesting
> to see if the scene can support and provide a good time for "newbies"
> and not get smothered by them - if so then CyberFest will have a more
> positive impact on the scene than any of us anticipated.  I mean,
> think about what got you into "raving" - for me it was going to a
> rather large party about 3 years ago.  Hell, they even had presale
> tickets at Poobah's in Pasadena, and I thought it was gonna be a
> concert like any other!  We can't afford to keep this to ourselves, to
> exclude people simply because they haven't "got" it yet.  I think 
> in time people will realize CyberFest isn't "what raves are all about" - 
> if the scene were to become all of CyberFest size then it's time to 
> worry.  
> 
> GNIZIHPOSOLIHP
> 
> 
> So we drove around the CyberFest site looking for where Wicked were gonna
> set up.  I realize that 1:30 was probably too early to expect anything, that
> they'd more likely come around 3, but seeing as how the site their voice mail
> said was the place was entirely unlikely, and that I had put so much energy 
> into the evening already, we decided to call it a night.  Well, we went
> grocery shopping actually, which was much more fun than raving could have
> ever been :)
> 
> The concept of setting up in the parking lot of Cyberfest is... on the surface
> a very cool idea, but I don't like the "point" it implies.  Look, promoter
> infighting will kill the scene faster than any amount of speed or DJ worship
> will.  Doing something which can be construed as upstaging is in bad taste...
> I expect more from a high class operation like Wicked.  This is gang-like.
> If Cool World were to take this event personally, which they shouldn't but
> who knows, they could easily turn around and call the cops on every Full Moon
> party each month.  This scene is too fragile for that kind of self-destructive
> behavoir.
> 
> Maureen, I don't think there's any significance in CyberFest being the 
> only party not getting busted - this was just a sweekend of collossal bad
> karma for the scene in general.  Maybe everyone should have swallowed 
> their pride and just gone to Cyberfest, braved the dust, and showed the
> new recruits what we're REALLY about....
> 
> 	Brian
> 
> 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 09:18:46 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 14:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Weekend report:Dangerous Visions

	I have to get this out and don't have time to spell check
	so excuse the typos... just take it for what
	it's worth....


			-G





Well, I will try to not make this a gloom and doom report but after
the events of this weekend, It will take some really good event (ravey or
otherwise) for me to believe that the Scene as we have come to know and
love it, is not truely comming to and end.  (I do think it can be save however)

There seemed to be some sort of bad chaotic energy about, sort of like anti-vibe
which would get attracted to the vibe, wherever it may be found, attach itself
to it, and nutralize it.

I knew the warning signs with this event coming up.  I know Richard Sunn
personally and know his intentionas are pure, he is coming from a very
spiritual place but, as I have said in previous post, that is not enough.
Much evil in the world is caused by people who think their intentions are
good, just, and have the rubber stamp of God.  Richard, in his zeal to save the
House Nation (from itself?) and to form bridges between some of the Stewards
of this part of the planet and the House Movement at large, forgot to see the
forest for the trees,  in this fiasco, many of us suffered from something that
is at the heart of many of the worlds problems... objectification, and
stereotyping.  These things are at the heart of racism and bigotry, but can function in people who believe themselves to be devoid of these social evils,
(my belief is that racism, bigotry are viruses that we ALL carry, it is part
of the fabric that make up our society, house music is PART of the cure, but
I digress).  It shows up as fear of the "Oaktown Homies" but also shows up
as thinking that all native americans share the same spiritual traditions or
that all african americans are good dancers, or that all white males want to
control and rule the world.  What I have discovered is that each group of
people, be there "Hommies" or "Rednecks" have people who will respond to
goodness and respect and people who are in some form of pain of disease that
makes them incapable of these actions, there is a Hitler and a Mother Theresa
in each and every one of us and the sooner we come to grips with that, the
better.
It didn't take much for Richard to be aware of the situation, he was walking
into.  A none raver friend of mine, who is only slightly on the perimeter
of the issues surrounding the Indigenous Peoples political situation in 
California, when I told him of the plan, warned me to be careful because some
of the tribal councils are corrupt and some of the leaders of tribal councils
are corrupt or simply mouth pieces for the U.S. Government, he said that
unless we were careful, none of the money raised would ever make it to the
indians,  he turned out hitting the Nail right on its proverbial Head.  
In short we need to start seeing more people from different cultures as
PEOPLE first, people with the same makeup of good and bad as the people in our own families, Sure Saddam Husain lives in Iraq but I bet there are more
people like Brian B or Larry C who live there than people like Saddam, anyway...
Through the whole weekend, this theme keeps coming up.  In every aspect, the things that were lacking are,communication, tolerence, knowledge, understanding and maybe some compassion.

I spent the weekend with the Wicked posse,  getting everything organized for the
big expedition North.  We packed a LARGE suond system consisting of 
8 Community 60B's and 8 Community 880 tops, appropriate amplification,
a bunch of food and other camping gear.  The target departure time was Noon,
we rolled out of SF at 6:30 :) with a 22' yellow penske truck and a van full
of personnel.  Others went in seperate cars.  The Truck was to make a 
detour to the east bay to get a sizable generator, I was to drive the van North
to get a reasonable site to make camp, the truck would follow allong and
we would all rendezvous at the Ski resort.  About 10 miles rom Sacto on I-80
we see this big digital sign that reads CONCERT AT POW WOW CANCELED.. shit
we pull over for a bathroom break and to contemplate what to do, some folks
say Oh that's not refering to our thing! (get real :), we try to "phone home"
but everyone is "out" with no real info on any of the event hotlines,
It's 9:30 and we decide that the people driving the truck would not be daunted
by such omens and would press on as should we, (1 st mistake, the truck got the
message that the concert was cancelled right as they were leaving berkeley
and never left the bay area :) We continued to the sight, driving up into
the mountains and arriving at about 11:30, ther were a few other cars at 
Pow Wow which seems to be some sort rural club.  The big action though we seemed
to have missed, including the thousands of people that were there earlier in the
day and the police insistance that NO event was going to take place.  The
owner of POW WOW was really nice and told me the whole scoop.  The story she
told was not to far out so since she lives up there I tend to believe her...
Apparently ravers are not the pnly ones who can network, so can christian
fundementalist groups, the Nevada groups called the californian contingent
and informed then that the Pagan/drug addict/satanist were planning their party
over there!  They californians made such a racket and, with law enforcement
on their side, succeded in stopping any party form going on.  She said
that a couple of thousand people had shown up during the day nad that the
local police were getting really pissed,  she was gracious enough to let
us camp on her land and told us of some warehouse party that was suppose to
happen, (the police stopped that as well), by this time the temperature at
6500 ft above sea level was about 38 deg. and since all of our camping equipment
was in the truck, we decided to wait for the truck to arrive and then maybe we
would risk a renegade in some forest or something, after about 2 am we
figured out that the truck mostlikely was not coming. We all crowded into the
Van and dozed as best we could for a couple hours, periodically starting
the car for heat.  Eventually we decided to go home, Jeno's partner, Eve
took the wheel and, much to my surprise (my own internal sexism), drove
masterfully along these country roads (MUCH better than I could have).  I fell
asleep only to awake as we were heading down I-80 passing richmond, almost home!
She had driven the Whole distance without stopping for the
bathroom or anything!  (all of the guys who were driving, including yours
truly, had to stop for various reasons, mostly because driving a large van
with a bunch o people feels like piloting an oil tanker, (I have a CRX...
big difference) any way my hat goes off to Eve for being a real trooper.
She dropped me at my car, I transfered my stuff and started off to look for
breakfast (6:30 am, 12 hours later) I stopped at spaghetti western on haight
but parked a little bit away (2nd mistake)after breakfast coming back to
discover that my car had been relieved of most of it's contents!
(This was a surprise and a total bummer!, but bbring resourcefull and growing
up in a neighborhood MUCH WORSE that the lower Haight, I knew the deal, someone
hanging around would know something, I just had to find out who, and whether I could trust them (there is honor amoung theives and even drug addicts), I also
know that the stuff would eventually wind up at a "fence" (a person who buys
stolen goods or exchanges them for drugs) the walkman and radio were as good as
gone but the clothes might still be around, being so early in the morning and
my "unique" size,  I found one of my coolers in a hall way
with it contents (humm guess crackheads don't like raw corn and soymilk :)
I eventualy ran into a small time "pimp" who got 95% of my clothes back
(including my two backpacks for $60) not the best deal but I'd rather have
my clothes.  I don't recomment that any of you try this type of negotiations
unless you really know how to read people and this sub-culture, I used
to do coke (years ago!) and came in contact with this element alot, it is
a damgerous liason to say the least.

Anyway I had had enough excitement for the day and headed for home, spent
saturday resting and recupperating and getting ready for Saturday night's 
festivities. (Have sound system, will travel!).  It was decided about
9 pm that we would do a renegade in the Cyberfest parking lot, sort of as
a statement but also in fun.  It was interesting to note that Cyberfest
didn't have dance permits for under age dancing after 2 am but when you have
half of the off duty SFPD working security, I guess you don't need them :)
In any event staging a little harmless micro-rave in the parking lot of
an event that you were offered money to participate in might be considered a 
little cheeky but I don't think it is the same as calling the police on a 
fellow promoter, it might be more like Cool World throwing a renegade free
event the same night as the full moon (just what we need! more renegade free
events! ) After a biit of subterfuge at the entrance to the parking lot to get
the van in, Wicked opened up the rear door to expose a full yput together 
sound system, Jeno dropped some beats, and a crowd of about 100 gathered,
the fun was short lived as two plane clothes cops finally realized that this
was not sanction, and peoceded to shut it down, they did get to spin for about
30 minutes thouggh.  After this , everyone crashed for the night.

Sunday morning arrived and everyone was still jonesing for a serious groove
that had been denied us all weekend, we speculated on places that we could take
a sound system and set up, some said that we should just go camping, and a 
few of the posse did just that.  Still some of the trance addicts, myself`
included, needed to get their fix.  The Wicked organizer called up the manager
of Gray Whale Cove and asked could he bring a sound system there in the afternoon and play some amplified music for about 2 to 300 people, I only heard
one side of the conversation but as far as I can tell we were totally truthfull
in every regard, the manager said that the beack closes at sunset which
was around 9 pm and that we had to leave then.  So we loaded everything up and arrived at the beach by 4:30 :) we drove the 4wd van down to the beach and set up the equipment.  It was basically just the wicked posse, Simon (american simon) started off the set and did an impressive job at that!  It seemed like we
were finally going to get the much anticipated groove that we so badly needed.
After about 1 hour Jeno took over, some people were lying out a few other
people showed up, but mostly I was dancing and going into deep trance, it was
nice to have Jeno all to myself just about and it really heightened the
feeling that he "inside your head spinning just for you", I was not on any
psychoactives so the effect was even more uncanny.  The vibe was getting stronger and stronger, there were maybe 25 people on the beach at most,
eventually it starts to get dark, I begin to think well, maybe we need to think 
about leaving or at least talk to the manager, but everyone was deep into the
vibe and I'm sure they had lost track of the time.  Then a big 4WD truck pulls
down the access road, the manager gets out  (he's a big gurly guy, not as tall
as me but BIG) I try to talk to him since the organizers don't seem to be
around, he completely ignores me, walks over to one of the speaker cabinets and
pushes it to the ground! I'm in shock, I can smell this guy reaking of alcohol!
I see him go to the next cabinet and do the same, I'm shouting at him that we 
leaving, stop it! He ignores me, heads for the DJ table... I think, I can
physically intervene and stop this guy but that would be a MAJOR escalation,
he's drunk, this is his land, he probably is armed, and I'm an african-
american male, who are the police gonna believe? so he grabs the DJ table and
overturns it while Jeno is spinning, and stops...  He in perferct Jon Wayne
fashion says something like.. OK who wants some more trouble... I try to keep
some young male ravers from getting in his face, I know this is the manager,
they don't, they think he's some crazy fart.  Finally I say to him we would 
have left all you had to do was come and tell us, this was totally uncalled for,
all he said was that he "Hated a liar" and that if we didn't leave, he'd call
the police.  ( i keep thinking, was he mad because we were not out by 9 on the dot? This incident happened at 9:15, or was he mad because more people didn't
show, (he got $5 for each person who would use the beach, and EVERYONE paid)
Well, we packed up quickly, and with only two flashlights, (all of my
flashlights were stolen from my car, the day before :), got everything to the
top of the hill (Hwy 1), just as we get everything in and loaded, the
police arrive with lights on, (two crusiers)  Every one gets into the cars
and scattered, (I included).  We all made it home safe apparently.
but quite an adventure.  This brings up many questions for me
as far as the future directions of the scene and how we should go
about it. Broadcasting it and what we really want to accomplish.

To me, communication and consciousness is the key.


From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 10:52:56 1993
From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:30:43 -0700
Subject: Re: repeat messages?



Unfortunately I have been getting repeat messages all week.
And it hasn't been one or two.
Whats going on?




         /\                       noah@cadence.com 
        <<>>      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
    ((((noah))))  "if i can get higher than this, 
	<<>>       i don't want to know about it"---Terence McKenna   
	 \/       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 11:45:21 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:15:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone back from Tahoe yet?

They 'initially' had their support. Like I suggested earlier, why don't you
'we all
call the IMAGINATION people and hear their stores before 100% believing what
some SF Bay Area sfravers are saying who were not involved in any way.
Sure, a couple phone calls were made, but there are 1500 members of the
council so I am told.  

Also, by the time this is over, the main sponsor will lose 30K.  Everyone is
being paid, so I am told.  Wicked was given a good sized check.  The event
was real. According to Richard, on Friday afternoon the Hare K's were
preparing free food for thousands...

For financial reasons, I simply will be unsubscribing after UNITY.  If I
don't get a chance to post Richard Sun's letter about IMAGINATION, someone
will.   --  Mau

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 11:49:44 1993
From: chinacat@netcom.com (J. Petersen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:43:32 PDT
Subject: How was Shoshone?

Due to mail floodage I've been not reading sfraves for the last couple
weeks. I was curious, how was the Shoshone Indian event last weekend?
If writers of substantial reviews could forward a copy to our mailbox
we'd really appreciate it...

Thanks!

Jim and Julie   (formerly jp@darkstar.com)
-- 
Jim Petersen
chinacat@netcom.com


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 12:13:24 1993
From: Michael Wertheim <twitch@casa.stanford.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:46:40 -0700
Subject: re: Where's the techno (was Re: the state of the Rave Nation)


So, here's a sampling of what I'm into.  If anyone could take this list and
give me a clue as to whether there is anyone or anywhere in SF that would get in
to this sort of thing, let me know.  I figure if I find someone who enjoys what
I love, then they can serve as a guide to the SF house music scene, and so can
help me find something there to love, too.


(Above quoted from laura.)

Wrong attitude, babe.  The closest you'll find to hardcore in SF will 
be the visiting LA hardcore DJs, and they aren't very good (imho),
and they play at raves that are incredibly vibeless (Cool World).

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.  Go to an FMR.  See the DJs that
people in SF dig.  Anything else is like going to Paris and eating
at McDonalds.  This cross-cultrual exchange thing does work.  Every
neraver that I know of who has visited SF has liked it -- including
people who thought they wouldn't because of the lack of hardcore and
breakbeat.  And sfravers who visit the east coast (me, sin, taxi,
ovid...) also always seem to have a good time in the east coast
scene.



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 12:22:46 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:04:04 -0700
Subject: repeat messages are coming from australia (MUWAYB.UCS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU)


Will whoever it is that has an account on MUWAYB.UCS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU,
WERPLE.APANA.ORG.AU, LSUPOZ.APANA.ORG.AU, or SSERVE.CC.ADFA.OZ.AU please
stop bounding messages back to 'sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU'...

Alternately, Brian, could you please remove the person whose account is
responsible for this fuckup?

'Where is your where is your where is your EVIDENCE?' -- Right here boyeee:

| Return-Path: SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU
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=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 12:37:36 1993
From: mcorwine@comtch.computech.spk.wa.us
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:19:32 PDT
Subject: ...

Sez dana:
i dont know whether or not music is the scene or the point or the focus
to me it is a channeler, it enables, just as the DJ enables
and is a channeler,  i would say that the people and the feeling
and the unity and all that is the point
and the DJ channels the music which channels the crowd into
the right feeling
 
i agree completely with brian on music taste
i used to be into hardcore stuff where the faster it was the better
i got pissed at Adam X for slowing down to 140 cuz i couldnt dance that 
slow
 
but one night, with some speakers on a rooftop, listening to Chill Out
watching the sunrise.. ambient stuff made sense
and i started buying records that tried to combine the two
that now i really love
 
and then one time, after going to an incredibly spiritual party
and driving god knows how many miles
i was laying in balboa park, being completely worked by Bones and Daemon
spinning great housey stuff...
and every time i hear songs from last summer in the park,
i feel happy, because i was happy then and thats when i heard that music
 
recently i went to a club where the music selection was the same as it 
would
have been a year ago, and i totally pictured all the raves i went to then
the atmosphere and the fun i had...
and it made me smile
i figured out there was a huge difference in the amount and style of 
dancing
that i do to hardcore/house/etc...
 
and there is a great program i am in, that has great vibes
and postive energy, and most people dont appreciate the music i like
and im not to thrilled with their tastes...
but there are some songs especially, that everyone gets into
and its just the people there.. songs like YMCA, or Brown Eyed girl
or whatever.. and some other songs that only mean a lot to me
because of those people at that time
 
but with all this.. the music wasnt what made me happy
it was the people, the feeling.. it just helped to bring that around
 
i dont want to say that you shouldnt say what you want.. feel free
but make sure you really want to communicate what you are communicating
 
do we really need to go around saying "_____ sucks"?
or that so-and-so is being this-and-that?
relate personal experience, personal opinion about things
but it really is useless to make judgements about other people
especially over a medium that does not carry much emotion
or inflection or body and facial expressions
just try to think (like i often dont) about whether you want
to be offending people with what you are about to say
and if you are going to do so...
but some people like to be offensive.. so hey
 
 ,
dana

***

Right on.

Matt.

--
mcorwine@comtch.computech.spk.wa.us (Matt Corwine)
IEAx for lack of a better name... (509) 624-0744

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 13:20:02 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:49:37 PDT
Subject: Re: GG Park raves....

I have to agree with Ben Wing, August-September IS our summer in SF.  Good
time for picnics and other outdoor events.  Warmer nights, too.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 13:27:11 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:34:53 PDT
Subject: Re: repeat messages? (fwd)


>
>This is just ridiculous Brian.  People send out mail to the sfraves list for
>the most incredibly stupid things.  A typical RFC822 mail header is about
>12-15 lines long.  I see people send out messages with bodies that are 3-4
>lines long.  It's totally ridiculous.  I just can't deal with it anymore.  I
>know I sound uptight, but I already deal with enough naive users as it is
>without having to deal with anymore.
>
>*I* don't send out meaningless flames everytime I something I marginally 
>disagree with.  Neither do I send out mail correcting every little flaw I see.
>I don't understand why I should ever need to see more than 1-2 messages a
>day from people.
>

OK, in response to this I'm proposing the "SFR Karma System" (SFRKS),
in which you can gain SFR Karma points for free luv-phaser recharges.

Here how it works:

points  
+10  	positive post, about a relevant topic
+5	honest, open-minded rave reviews
+3 	useful rave-related information
+1	good posts on a topic somewhat related to raves

-10	personal flame, on an undeserving target
-5	personal flame, on a deserving target
+1	good-natured, humorous flame, on a deserving target

-1	completely unnecessary posting - redundant information,
		irrelevant to raves, posting that should be on private mail...
-3	subscribe/unsubscribe postings to the entire list
-5	"Your music sucks" posts
0	honest mistakes

SFR Karma points can be redeemed at any time for luv-phaser energy.
Negative points require you to smile at 100 people for each point.

:)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 13:43:02 1993
From: loophead@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:51:04 PDT
Subject: WARP Releases

No mail in DAYS!! 
 
Anyone know how much of the WARP catalogue Wax Trax licsenced?
All of it? WARP sez...
 
 
WARP RELEASE SCHEDULE
---------------------
 
JUNE
----
 
7th: FUSE "Dimension Intrusion". Limited Edition white vinyl.
     Fifth in the Artificial Intelligence Series. (LP12)
 
14th: Modus Vivendi "Modus Vivendi" (WAP 35)
 
21st: Laurent Garnier "A Bout de Souffle" (WAP 36)
 
      Speedy J "Ginger". Limited Edition ginger vinyl.
      Sixth in the Artificial Intelligence Series. (LP14)
 
Coming Up: 
---------  
 
Rhythm Invention "Inventures in Wonderland" LP, Aug 9th
Aphex Twin      TBC single                      Aug
DIY             "Strictly 4 Groovers" LP        Aug
 
FUSE            TBC single                      Sept
Speedy J        TBC single                      Sept
Autechre        TBC LP                          Sept
 
LFO             TBC single                      Oct
Nightmares on Wax TBC single                    Oct
 
LFO             TBC LP                          Nov
Nightmares on Wax TBC LP                        Nov
Aphex Twin      "Selected Ambient Works 2" LP   Nov
Various         "Artificial Intelligence 2" LP  Nov
 
Black Dog                                       1994
B12                                             1994
 
WARP Records STUDIO 2 
1 Brown Street 
Sheffield S1 2BS
England
 
Phone 0742 757586 / 757505
FAX   0742 757589
 
 
 

__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ loophead@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]

   The CyberDen - Public Access Waffle Usenet System - 415/472-5527

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 13:54:30 1993
From: gmosheh@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gregor Mosheh)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:46:15 MDT
Subject: Dana's Posting


One of the best pieces of e-mail I've ever read. Two thumb up!
	-Siskel n Ebert

The feel good data packet of the summer! I loved it!
	-Rex Reed

I thought your letter was great. Take no flames, take no shit!


-GM
Just drop it.
Just shoot it.
Just smoke it.
Just pop it.
Just eat it.
Just DO it.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 14:07:55 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:32:07 PDT
Subject: Re: repeat messages? (fwd)

Derek dictates:
> ...the "SFR Karma System" (SFRKS),
> in which you can gain SFR Karma points for free luv-phaser recharges.

starting himself out with a -1 for his
 >	completely unnecessary posting - redundant information, 		 >      irrelevant to raves...

while I get a -10 for this
  > personal flame, on an undeserving target


> Negative points require you to smile at 100 people for each point.

No problem with Unity coming up. d%-)

- leg of eel

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 14:12:10 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 15:42:41 EDT
Subject: Techno and Raving


Some people say that techno "ain't got no soul," and I think they're
right. It doesn't seem to elicit strong emotions. It doesn't carry a
message. There's very little room for personalized performance.
Indeed, I am coming to believe that these characteristics are the very
point of techno, that it is all about the listener, not the performer.

Techno, I think, works as a different kind of music, with a different
kind of purpose. It sings to a very visceral, ancient part of us deep
down inside. It draws it out, perhaps from the "reptilian" brain, past
our egos, and beckons us to dance with abandon, to surrender ourselves
to the beat that comes from both outside and inside.

I feel it's very similar to--and perhaps the logicial "technologized"
evolution of--tribal rhythms, the pulsating drumbeats that have had
people dancing in frenzies for countless milennia. For a long time,
Western music has totally forgotten this theme in favor of
performer oriented music. Techno, I think, brings it back.

This total abandonment, this shedding of the ego and allowing one to
have pure enjoyment is a very special thing in itself. It implies the
dropping of barriers, and it implies acceptance from the others. In
ancient societies, the dance was closely related with spirituality. I
am beginning to see how this is so, for spirituality requires an
opening up, a release of the ego, and this sort of dance can be a
direct path to these goals.

My first rave was an astonishing experience, as I was totally able to
let go in a way I had not done before. Later, I felt that wide doors
had been opened, for I was able to see myself without the crushing
ego, that self-supression that has haunted most of my life. I now know
possibilities I could not see before. I now have a view of myself and
what I can be, and my hopes are high.

I return to the scene for these reasons, for the music and visuals,
because it is a lot of fun, and lately and most of all, because I like
the people in it. You guys are really great, and I love you all.

Sean Casey
July '93


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 14:34:26 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 13:14:55 -0700
Subject: Re: repeat messages are coming from australia (MUWAYB.UCS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU)

Yes yes yes, I've removed the only .au address on the alias, I did that 
yesterday - but it can still take a few days for it all to get sorted
out, and it's impossible for me to prevent.  Last night I stayed up all
night searching througn /usr/spool/mqueue on techno.stanford.edu and
killed every single repeated message - about 500 different sendmail
jobs.  That's the most I can do; until then I just ask that you learn
how to use your mail program and find out how to kill very quickly 
any message which was dated before today.  Thank you.

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 16:52:24 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 15:27:46 PDT
Subject: Re: Genesis Project, LA ToGather, and the state of the Rave Nation

just an FYI, WRT to this:

True, there are times when the two of them venture into
a slower groove, with vocals, bass guitars and funky rhythms...
-------

superbad (james brown, and that AIN'T disco) appears unmistakeably
on the garth CD....near track 2....as well as some public enemy
from (i think) the "nation" era...

*

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 19:44:33 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 22 Jul 1993 19:32:10 -0700
Subject: Universe UK & USA

Miles Pearce kindly provided this response to my comment about the UK
mega-raves.  This also has the pertinent info on the Big Love (UK) and
Universe in the USA events.  Housewares is listed as their US contact.
btw, note the very interesting parallels between the Cyberfest flyer
and this typical Universe flyer's hype but heartfelt language [this kind
of obvious, er, borrowing pushes Cool World even further down my Bottom 10
list . . . note the mention of 'stringest searches' but on the other hand
Universe emphasize their recycling capability while that seems beyond
Cool World's imagination . . .]
 
--phred
 
=====================================================================
 
It's all a matter of opinion, I suppose. I've been to all the Universe
events this year and last and never has the term "really terrible" been
used to describe any of them before. Did you happen to know that in just ONE
of those tents 12,500 ravers were having an absolute stormer. I suggest
you buy the Universe Video (See the BIG LOVE flyer for ordering info) and
see for yourself.
 
Miles
 
In fact I'm sending you the flyer so that you may be able to get some idea
of what Universe is about....
 
 
                  UNIVERSE PRESENTS "BIG LOVE"
 
Friday 13th / Saturday 14th August 1993
 
12 AM (noon) - 9 AM (AND BEYOND!) - MAIN STAGES 7PM - 9AM
 
Lower Pertwood Farm
A350. Nr Warminster,
Wiltshire
U.K.
 
 
30,000 hearts and souls converge for a 20 hour festival of the future and
the last universe party of 1993 in the U.K.
 
For anyone lucky enough to have witnessed the flowering of the house music
scene during the first summers of love, in 1988/89 and those who have only
read about it since, UNIVERSE proudly present our last uk event of 1993 -
"BIG LOVE" recognising that in the depths of recession, many party goers
are skint, we are drastically reducing our admission price and
concentrating on the most important party ingredients i.e.: the music and
generating the right atmosphere.
 
"Big Love" will be the gathering to take the large scale outdoor dance
party back to basics, back to it's roots and the old skool vibe and
forwards to a positive, brighter future by cementing the spirit that binds
us all together whatever our dance music persuasion.
 
We will be inviting all generations to unite, harmonise, dispel negative
attitudes and acknowledge membership of the global dance community and the
energy it represents on 2 enormous back to back stages ( heaven & earth),
the worlds dj heavyweights will be taking an international audience of
30,000 hearts and souls on musical and spiritual trips through the entire
dance music spectrum.  Around the "big love" site some of the uk's best
loved travelling sound systems will provide more intimate alternative
arenas creating a genuine festival flavour whilst in the ambient area (the
ocean) the very best mellow mood maestro's will be offering a safe
sanctuary from the madness elsewhere!
 
The worlds dj heavyweights in heavenly harmony on 8 separate colossal
systems! ( Main Stages Kick off at 7PM)
 
HEAVEN (playing 90 minute sets)
 
dave morales (new york - 1st outdoor uk show), frankie knuckles (new york),
dj dag (frankfurt - dance 2 trance), paul oakenfold (fresh from the u2
"zoo" tour), Scott Hardkiss (San Fran), laurent garnier (paris), john kelly
(our old friend), nicky holloway, Lisa Loud, nick warren, d.i.y. jack, mr
oz, db (nasa, new york)
 
your angelic hostess : mc kinky
 
 
EARTH
 
full live sets from: the prodigy (premier of a brand new stage show), aphex
twin, carl cox concept(carl on the mike!), the source(sweden/r&s records),
lenny dee(dj and producer, industial strength records, new york), carl cox,
grooverider, westbam(berlin)mickey finn, top buzz, colin dale, ratty, ellis
dee, ltj bukem, the producer,pigbag, clarkee(dreamscape), dj kid
(scotland's finest)
 
leading you thru the darkness : mcdj ribbs
 
 
OCEAN
 
mixmaster morris, robert leiner (the source), The Source,dj madness
(newyork)
 
 
 
12 AM (Noon) - ( AM (AND BEYOND!)
plus around the "big love" site, sound systems by:
 
lazy house (southwest), sugerlump (london), spectrum (oxford), club biscuit
(bristol), lucky spin records (london), e-ze love, Adrenalin, Circus
Irritant and last but definitely not least big red squashy sounds from the
tomato records crew.
 
ATTRACTIONS
expect our usual and unparalleled  standard of production, attractions
(incl. full fun fair) and services.
 
wild and wacky costumes especially welcome
 
(first prize - 2 flights & tickets to universe - usa saturday 18th
september 1993)
 
* for dj playing times please ring the universe information line - 0338
405403 (36p per min. cheap rate, 48p at all other times)
 
* strange but true facts about the "big love" site
 
- - - our party zone is situated on an ancient magnetic"ley"line in direct
alignment with "stonehenge" and glastonbury tor.
- - - this area of wiltshire has the highest incidence of recorded ufo
sightings of anywhere in the world.
- - - in the past some of the largest crop circles ever seen have
mysteriously
appeared on the site and the surrounding fields.
 
whatever happens on the night of friday 13th august, with a concentrated
display of tribal unity, energy, love and uninhibited human enjoyment we
may create the optimum conditions to encourage alien activity - you have
been warned!
 
tickets
 
#20.00 (plus booking fee - max. 10%)
on sale nation-wide from 120793
 
early purchase of tickets is advised to guarantee your participation. 
please beware of forgeries - only tickets bought from listed official
outlets and agents will be valid. 
 
polite professional security. no illegal substances - stringent searches!
 
very limited guest list - genuine proposals must be faxed no later than
310793 on 0225 840478
 
recycle or die!
 
Save the planet's valuable resources by placing litter in the recycling
containers.
 
universe always print on environmentally friendly paper
 
information hotline -0338 405403 (Including DJ playing times).
		(36p/min cheap rate, 46p/min other times
 
ticket zone credit card hotline 0271 74447
 
"cosmic clobber" - exclusive fat n funky universe threads available on-site
or write requesting catalogue to: universe cosmic clobber. po box 1569,
bath avon ba2 5yx
 
"world techno tribe" - the universe lp/mc/cd choc full of timeless techno
symphonies now available nation-wide at all quality record stores.
in association with rising high.
 
"global dance party" - the universe video, featuring live footage taken
from  "tribal gathering" and "the time machine"  available from universe
direct, from 26/07/93.  write sending a cheque or postal order for #10.99 +
#1.50 (p&p) to universe cosmic clobber. po box 1569, bath, avon, ba2 5yx
 
ALL MONEY ORDERS ARE QUOTED IN POUNDS STERLING U.K.
 
Credit Card Orders Tel: 08 556 2429 (24 hours)
 
"party with a purpose" remember a proportion of income from every ticket
sold at "big love" will be used to support our tree planting environmental
effort - look out for information update boards on our continuing
programme.
 
universe in the usa
 
Saturday 18th September 1993 - San Francisco, California
 
USA Infoline Tel: 0338 405408 36p per min. cheap rate, 46p per min. other
times)
 
after months of planning, we are now set to launch universe in the united
states on saturday 18th september 1993
 
 
For further UNIVERSE information please feel free to e-mail:
 
miles.pearce@bristol.ac.uk
 
or ask for miles on the UK-Dance mailing list.
 
 
 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 22 21:58:54 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 21:27:05 PDT
Subject: Universe Videos


 I have a question about the videos mentioned in the recent Universe 
post. Will they be on sale at the September Universe? If so , will 
they be in NTSC format , so they can play in USA video tape players?

					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 00:00:06 1993
From: jp@iowegia.dsm.ia.us (Jason Welch)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:25:00 CDT
Subject: Play List

 Help From the Heartland! Could you please send me a list of the 
current popular techno that is being played on the West coast. 
Could 
you also send ideas about avoiding the police when having raves. 
Lately in Des Moines there have been a few small raves but now the 

police are starting to crack down on them. It seems that somebody 
has 
been leaking info to the police about where the raves are at and 
the 
police show up along with the building inspector and the fire 
marshal. 
It really sucks. I'd really appreciate the info. Especially the 
list 
current techno being played on the west coast.  thanks.
 
 
 
                        Lichtenstien
 
 
 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 01:53:44 1993
From: David Drexler <ddrex@okcforum.osrhe.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 3:05:01 CDT
Subject: re: Play list (not getting busted)

%  Help From the Heartland! Could you please send me a list of the 
% current popular techno that is being played on the West coast. 
% Could 
% you also send ideas about avoiding the police when having raves. 

Dunno about the play list, but I do know a few things about not getting
busted.  

The fire marshall doesn't stay up all night just waiting for something to
happen; he's a city flunky and usually goes home at 5pm.  If the fire
marshall is showing up with cops, the raid was planned in advance, and
there might be a promoter war going on.  

The only way for a rave not to get busted is to do it legally.  The
promoter needs to call city hall (the fire marshall's office is a good
place to start) and find out what city code is for a night club type of
event.  Tell 'em it's a one-time dance party.  DO NOT SAY "RAVE"!!!

Here in Oklahoma City (which is almost certainly different from your town),
trying to stay within city code is difficult to the point of almost
impossible, without spending a bloody fortune to renovate a warehouse.  But
not doing it means that same bozo is going to call the cops on us.  Our
choices are severely limited.  There are really only two places we can do
them that have high ceilings, hold more than 300 people, and meet all the
city codes already.  One of them has been done to death, and people just
don't go raves held there anymore.  The last one bombed miserably.  And the
other place is about to go bankrupt; they'll close their doors permanently at
the end of July.

We didn't know that before we got our flyers printed, and announced it for
Aug 14.  Right now, I have *no* idea where we're going to hold it.  Maybe
outside, but I'm not crazy about it.  We get a lot of severe storms and the
weather is unpredictable more than a day in advance.

I hope you have better luck!

David


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 04:58:11 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 04:35:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Your Sister's House in San Francisco

Hiya all. This is going to be a three person post in order to save some
traffic on the lists. Well Dan(Anarchy, or DanFREELove from DC/UMD Raves)
and Susie (aka Smoosie or Clueless, who finally got back from SF), and
myself (Cindy or Sea of Sin) went to Your Sister's House. I was pretty
tired to begin with, so I let Susie drive my car to the store. Susie can't
drive!!! She cannot stay within the lines on Market Street.:) She was
talking about Laura's car and how she was happy that my car had power
steering, etc. Of course she wasnt; paying attention when she babbled.
After we got to the store, I decided to drive.:) When Susie and Dan got
outta the store this guy was chasing after them asking them to buy a shirt
and I thought it was some guy they picked up in the store!:):):) Oh Well.
We finally got to Your Sister's House. It was really good. The energy was
great. the only problem was that it was way too hot inside. I was glad
that I saw Johnny, Bob Ramstead, Phillip, Ben Wing, Sean, Greg Mosheh,
Geoff White and Ravi. Too bad there were certain people who didn't come!!!
I think you know who you are. Geeks:) The interesting part dancing with
Susie and Dan was them trying to adjust from Hardcore to the Sf style
music (I don't want to label it because there are different definitions of
what you consider.)  They were trying to imitate dcravers dance. Yes, and
Susie even tried to do the Doug Zimmerman. Well here is Susie and her post:
please disregard any slanderous statement made by a one cindy kawakami...i
am licenced and insured in the state of califorina and have never killed
anyone and/or mamed or injured or dented anything with a car....i have
driven many cars very successfully without problems...(even though i
don'[t own one and must beg/mooch rides from my friends)

we went to ysh....it was very cool....i hadn't been to a housey music rave
in a long time...and i loved meeting some cool sfravers...but i was way
tired...as i am screwed up by my body clock being off bye 3 hours...the
space was one giant vibe...ahhhhh how cool....it is very different than
what i was use to...(good and bad) (oh and for laura's sake diva/vocals
can sound like chanting...cuz people were singing vocals...which became
kinda like chants....ie "lets work") but i feel at home here.....no
attitude and lots of energy and vibe...infact when i first walked in...i
got that instant wiff of sweat and humidity (kinda like a summer in dc or nyc)
i like this event cuz it is sponcered by women...and i think it is really
one of a kind...and it is important to have women dj's....wow i am proud
of my gender....also a nice un p.c. thing that i can tell you that works
on the east coast....air conditioning...(hell i recycle, but i love my
a.c.) and they needed it last night...or a bigger space or some way of
trucking in fresh/cool air...well come find me at unity....i would love to
meet you all ...partyon...susie (: (hello to the people mentioned in cindy
s post)



Okay, Dan's turn:

Allright, we hooked up with Susie early in the day (about 10pm or so (I
guess, I was asleep, so the whole thing was pretty hazy)).  It was cool to
wake up and chat with the Susiemeister in a seperate spatial reality than
the east coast.  Anyhow, we headed out eventually, and we got there.  We
then proceeded to Dance, Meet other Netheads, Sit, Talk, Flirt, Pay Money,
Complain about the Heat, Etc. in no particular order.  I think the basic
chronology and major events have been described so I will just add that it
was GREAT meeting all you SF Ravers (sic) and I miss you East Coasters (NE
Ravers, DC Ravers, SE Ravers).  The vibe was fun.  The people dress alot
different than your 'I am the REAL Raver' style in the east.  But also
less toys and alot of the 'I am so much less pretentious than you'
attitude, oh well.  I suppose that people here are alot less self
conscious, the girl who took off her top when it got to hot kind of
seperated the east from the west (I am always seeing that in Cali, yet to
see it in the east (but I guess it depends on where I frequent)).  But
everyone there really seemed to care about making a good vibe and enjoying
themselves.  I liked that.  Plus, and here is a big bonus for those of you
who went to Daybreak or (ahem) Denial, the people here DANCED!  It was fun
to do that again.  :)  Beyond that, I would like to say that it was an
interesting experience to not be the oldest person in the room and not the
oldest netraver in attendance.  Weird, but I almost felt young at some
points.  I will see the rest of you SFravers at the FMR and some of the
NERavers too.  :)  And just as another note I would like to say that I
hate poswriting in such a condensed form.  I have to explore each idea
in a sentence or two, soon enough I will find a way to condense my
ideas into a easier to read and more pleasant form.  I really need at
least a couple of pages to explore what I experienced at this rave.  Hmm,
ah well.  Okay, I am rambling without much purpose but to fill out your
account quotas, so I will move on to the giant rave in the mind.  I hope to
experience you all soon.

Dan (aka Danarchy, danFREELove, Zippie Punhead, Dan99e99, etc..)


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 05:49:43 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 04:44:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: addendum to the YSH post

We forgot to include our vrave mommy Bryce Ryan. Yes, he is a a guy.
(brycer on vrave). :) And Geoff White, the man in exercise clothes.:)

Dan says he loves you all.  He also wants to relate a small anecdote to
you folk.  He was walking about of the Safeway when he passed a cop
searching some fellows car (REALLY searching it).  Anyhow, he overheard
the guy say to the cop, "Officer, you wont find any drugs in there.  I
already took them all."  He thought that was really funny.


Susie died, so she won't says anything. Oh other than she wants a job as a
flier passer outter (or how I mistyped it otter or putter):). 


Well that's it. I hope we didn't forget anything. We are all going to bed.
Yes all of us together, with my kitty Jeno too.:) 


Cindy, Dan, Susie
aka
Sea of Sin, DanFREELove, and smoosie (floozy):)





From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 05:54:21 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 12:46:47 BST
Subject: Re: repeat messages are coming from australia (MUWAYB.UCS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU)


>>>>> On Thu, 22 Jul 1993 13:14:55 -0700, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf) said:

  Brian> That's the most I can do; until then I just ask that you
  Brian> learn how to use your mail program and find out how to kill
  Brian> very quickly any message which was dated before today.  Thank
  Brian> you.

You might want to think twice before doing this.  Sometimes mail
*does* get delayed, so you;ve got to way up the (small) risk of losing
real mail against the benefit of killing the remaining duplicates.  If
(like me) you haven't got round to setting up a filter to separate out
your sfraves mail, then you may feel you can't take that risk,
particularly if you also receive work-related mail on the same
account.


	Cosmic Roy

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 05:58:33 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <wing@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 05:25:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Your Sister's House in San Francisco 

Have to agree with Cin about YSH ...  I really enjoyed it.  I sensed
a bit of attitude at times, I guess I'm kinda sensitive to this.  It 
seemed (in my mind at least) to ebb and flow a lot with the style of
music.  But lots of vibe esp. later while Shobhan was playing her
killer set.  Lots of SFRavers etc., cool to meet up with Susie and Danarchy
and figure out who Sean was ...  also lots of non-SFR types keeping up
the vibe -- Liz, who is at all the YSH's and really projected lots of
positive energy as she manned the juice stand; Jan Cooley, not spinning
but wearing short shorts (sorry, I guess that's a rather un-P.C. thing
to say :-); Andrew, a new friend of Ravi's; etc.

The heat was pretty oppressive at times, although Cindy suffered a lot
more in her full body suit than me in my shorts and T-shirt.  Being SF,
the night is cool, of course, but there was almost NO ventilation into
the dance area.  The front area was much cooler but the door between it
and the dance area had to be kept closed so as to keep the street volume
down.  After awhile everybody just said fuck it, we're gonna sweat like
dogs, let's just enjoy it :) ...

The area was ...  let's say, interesting.  It's really amazing how
sudden the change is between 5th St., which is fine, and 6th St.,
which is, well ...  Stevenson St. is filled with trash and smells
of piss and gets rapidly darker and scarier as you head from the
space towards 6th.  (For anyone interested, there's a killer
Vietnamese place called Tu Lan at 6th/Market; really cheap, really
divey, really good.)

Kudos to BobR for dealing with a touchy incident right at the end.
One of the street people came into the party and the resident dog
took an immediate disliking to him and forced him to leave (he was
pretty drunk and the dog may have smelled that).  He came back a
little later, not really coherent but pretty pissed, carrying a
lighter and a bottle with a rag and a little of what seemed to be
gasoline in it, complaining about how the owner sic'ed the dog
on him and wanting to set the place on fire or something.  Bob
talked to him, told him the dog's owner wasn't anywhere around
the place, and convinced him it wouldn't be a good idea to try
any stunts.

ben
---
"... then the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was
more painful than the risk it took to blossom." -- Anais Nin

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 11:30:01 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 09:47:18 PDT
Subject: Your Sister's House in San Francisco 

benjamin p wing:

>After awhile everybody just said fuck it, we're gonna sweat like
>dogs, let's just enjoy it :) ...

dogs don't sweat.  they pant.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 11:31:54 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 13:34:03 EDT
Subject: need some watts

I've got an Adcom GFA-555 (bridgeable 200 w/c 8-ohms)that's not doing
anything right now. It's not for sale (I love that amp), but if
someone ever needed it, I'd be willing to loan it out. I dunno if this
sort of thing is in short supply, so I thought I'd offer. Only
condition is I'd insist on someone I know borrowing it so I stand a
good chance of getting it back :).

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 12:42:12 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:44:18 PDT
Subject: Freaky Chakra

This Freaky Chakra.  In what form might it be found?  CD?  Or wax only.  Is Freaky
Chakra the artist or Album tittle?  Is it an Exist Dance comp.?  Just wondering,
might try to find it today.

-Mark

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 14:23:36 1993
From: "Tupy.Jon" <tupy@rapids.tularik.com>
Date: 23 Jul 1993 13:02:06 U
Subject: Danarchy on YSH

Dan from the east sez:  

  > Beyond that, I would like to say that it was an
  > interesting experience to not be the oldest person in the room and not the
  > oldest netraver in attendance.  Weird, but I almost felt young at some
  > points. 

Feel young all the time!  You're only as young as you dance you are... :)

I'm a newbie to this board, and I have to say that the YSH party last night was
the best vibe I've had in a fair bit -- great recommendation Brian!  I'm looking
foward to meeting some of the people I've been reading posts from at Unity - see
you there!

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 15:38:21 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <wing@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:19:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Your Sister's House in San Francisco 

In message <9307231647.AA13790@dlsun87.us.oracle.com> you write:
>benjamin p wing:
>
>>After awhile everybody just said fuck it, we're gonna sweat like
>>dogs, let's just enjoy it :) ...
>
>dogs don't sweat.  they pant.

yeah, yeah ...  I was originally gonna say "sweat like a pig" but pigs
don't sweat either ...

ben

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 15:46:00 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 17:23:20 EDT
Subject: Danarchy on YSH

Cool! I'm sure everyone will be glad to meet you. I'll be there
wearing my beautiful blue grateful dead tie-die, so if you see me say
hi :).

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 15:47:40 1993
From: Ravi Vinodrai Gadhia <rg@cs.stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 14:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HELP--record stores in LA

Hey All!

I'm going to LA for the weekend.  Can anyone
recommend good places to pick up some records?

Thanks!
Ravi

(off-line plz)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 16:26:31 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 16:35:01 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Planetarium

I'm trying to throw together an ambient/laser/digistar party here at Salt
Lake's planetarium.  The laser guy is all go for it, but he said that
convincing the administration would be another story.  What would help me
immensely is if I can get the following information:

1. Reports of what has been done at San Francisco's planetarium.  Including
times, dates, duration, and audience size.

2. Phone numbers for the promoters who have done the above events.

3. The phone number for San Fran's planetarium.

Mucho gracias.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 17:24:44 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 17:06:30 PDT
Subject: Re: Planetarium

>   I'm trying to throw together an ambient/laser/digistar party here at Salt
>   Lake's planetarium.  The laser guy is all go for it, but he said that
>   convincing the administration would be another story.  What would help me
>   immensely is if I can get the following information:

    You might want to contact the Chabot Observatory & Planetarium
    in Oakland.  Henry Kaiser has been doing concerts there for years.
    The concerts are generally benefits for Chabot, which helps, I'm sure.
    (Henry Kaiser's stuff isn't particularly ravey, but some of it
    would probably fit under "Ambient").

>   1. Reports of what has been done at San Francisco's planetarium.  Including
>   times, dates, duration, and audience size.

    They were fairly short, and the planetarium was filled to capacity
    (which is not very many people for that planetarium)

    Chabot's phone number is 510-530-5225
    


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 23 18:29:32 1993
From: TAXI <taxi@panix.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 20:37:13 -0400
Subject: review of thurs night at Loft


Hiya folks,

I went to the Loft last night in NYC and it was so-so.  I kinda miss the SF
vibe so I went to see the Hardkiss boys,  Jon Williams, Onionz, and W play
though I'm not sure if they all span.  The music was great for me (an 
ex-sfraver) and the space is phat! but the vibe was non-existant and there
was no dancing energy.  The people there were nice (tho it's MUCH, MUCH 
harder to bum a cigarette from strangers in NY party situations than in SF)
and they tended to sit around the floor in the couches and silently gaze at
the dancing folk.  The folk who were dancing really lacked energy in my opinion
compared to what I was used to in SF.  Despite the SF dj's playing, I had to 
say, "enough of this dead zone" to myself and left at around 3am.  I asked 
another dude who also left what he thought and he also said it was so-so.  He
said that maybe it was the music that was too slow.  But from partying in SF

I've seen incredible dancing energy and vibe WITH THE SAME MUSIC.  I've 
finally figured out- it's not all the music speed - it's what everyone decides
to put into it.  The concept of raving out here in NYC is really different from
SF, I know.  In SF, it's a love thang whereas in NYC it's a relax and chill 
out (literally) with your best friends kind of thang.  This of course is 
formulated from my limited experience of NY raving so I could be wrong - I've
only been here for 2 months and I haven't yet gone to a NY Back-to-Basics
which I'm going to tomorrow - yaaaaay :-)  Even in breakbeat situations the

ravers here, in my experience, dance more slowly and less energetically when
compared to SF ravers dancing to say, tribal house.  I was totally surprised 
when some breakbeat came on (in Nasa) and I kept up (for about 15 min) and 
some ravers came up to me and bowed down to me..... Woooooooooow.  The actual 
activity of *dancing* as well as meeting new people is considered far less 
important to NY ravers (with the exception of the ne-ravers) than the activity
of chilling with one's established friends, at least according to my 
experience so far.  An I'm not saying that this difference is better or worse,
it's just different.

So there you have it.  I'll be at Back-to-Basics tomorrow so I'll see yous
ne-ravers there.  If anyone wants a ride from Manhattan email me.
Hi to yous sfravers!  I'm not on the sfraver list anymore so if perchance 
anyone on sfraves writes about my post, please CC me too.  Over and out.

keep the LOVE alive, 
TAXI
ex-fractal surfer 
who wishes he had access to a love-vibe kick-start button

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 01:38:58 1993
From: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 00:38:52 PDT
Subject: Unity


	A bunch of us involved in Aurgasm are bringing visuals/altars/
atmosphere to one of the ambient rooms at Unity tomorrow (and thank you
thank you thank you rramstad for the idea and the help!).  Should be 
lots o' fun, if you're there come say hi.  i'll be the one fiddling with
projectors.
				too excited about it to sleep,
				gregg

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 01:44:35 1993
From: Rick Masters <idh@seeker.mystic.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 10:14:06 PDT
Subject: TEKNO BBS

Has anyone ordered from the Techno BBS? If so, do you recommend them or have
any other comments? What was delivery time like?


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 05:21:25 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 06:14:47 CDT
Subject: Chicago FMR

On August 1st 1993

Chicago will join its hearts and dance
in celebration at

THE FULL MOON RAVE

DJ's:

Boomer from Detroit
DieselBoy from Pittsburg

AND from Chicago...

E.F.X (trance)
Julio Bishop (trance)
Slurp (yet more trance)
Acid Boy Todd P (still more trance)

AND

Davey Dave, and Josh Werner

Call 312-665-0243

Crash Space Is Available for Out-Of-Towners

Just write alabkrv@hawk.depaul.edu for info!
(terse fliers limited --Kurt)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 12:02:30 1993
From: nrg@netcom.com (Ethan I. Miller)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 11:51:11 PDT
Subject: Tilt-a-Whirl Line Up

This week at Tilt-a-Whirl:

 Tony
 Dave Alga
 Demigod
 Quashi
 Tigger
 Jordan

Some new sounds from the bay area  :)

see ya
nrg
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 12:36:09 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 12:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: susie

Hi all. Susie woke me up this morning to tell me to post her new phone
number up. So here it is. Geez I hope it's right cuz I was half asleep. 
(415)  661-1554 ext. 25.  This number is only temp. 


cindy


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 13:41:09 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 12:36:28 -0700
Subject: SFR calendar

       In an act of delegation which perhaps has been a long time in coming,
I've given over maintenance of the calendar to Derek Chung, 
dhchung@us.oracle.com,  since he supplies 90% of the calendar info anyways.
So if you pick up any new info about what's going on, send it to him now...
I'll forward anything you send me, but he's the event-guru now :)  He'll 
also continue to give recommendations for what's good for the coming week
at the top of the calendar - he'll base it on the same thing I did, which
is past performance, so don't expect too much change along those lines.

	See you all at Unity tonight!

	Brian


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 16:20:41 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 16:14:06 PDT
Subject: Unity


Just FYI, I'll be at Unity helping sell the Come/Unity tapes... it's a
6 tape set from the April 17th benefit, I believe they'll be selling
for $30.  Drop by the table and say hi!  (big blonde guy, ponytail)

Bob

PS I'll have (some) stealth Blo-Pops and (some) stealth C2 sets for
sfravers, ask me if you need/want either...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 20:46:47 1993
From: Joseph Brenner <doom@leland.stanford.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 20:40:29 -0700
Subject: Info on Toasted and Overnight Xpress


I see they're asking me to give away some tickets to some
raves tonight on my show (KZSU 90.1FM, from Midnight to
3AM... think of me if you're running late on your way to
Unity):

   Toasted
   Friday, July 30th
   (510)247-2433
   DJs: Binniz/Smiles/Orion/Tigger/Liquid

   Overnight Xpress
   Thursday, August 5th
   Berkeley Aquatic Park
   (415) 266-8232
   DJs: Carlos/Ghost/Tai

So, checking the rave phone number database (thanks Derek),
I confirm that Overnight Xpress is by the people who did The
Flower Garden.  The Flower Garden got some decent reviews
here, though I heard from Jill that it was kind of slow in
the early stages (the first DJ couldn't mix, he'd fade out
one record and then start the next).  And vibe wise, I think
Jill was annoyed at dodging repeated come-ons... but anyway,
this is Carlos here, and I don't mind plugging this one on
the air.  

I'm a little worried about Toasted though.  I don't
recognize the number, or the names of the DJs, and the 510
area code looks a little shaky as well.  So what do you
folks think?  Does it look reasonable?  Do you know who's
doing it?  (If you think I shouldn't do the ticket
give away, please send me some e-mail fast, or even better
give me a call on the request line: (415) 723-9010).






From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 24 22:13:23 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 21:09:03 PDT
Subject: ???


 You lucky mammals who are going to Come/Unity , have lots o' fun! If I
wasn't so dead from helping my girlfriend move out of her apt. , I'd
be there with you.

 So , dance hard and sweat like pigs [errrr] dogs [ooops] - Pony Express
horses? 


 BTW - Longs traffic lines to get into Shoreline Amphitheatre at
about 7PM - New Order / 808 State must have sold out the place.

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 
-- 

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 00:17:39 1993
From: "Robert Jesse" <rnj@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 93 00:12:42 PDT
Subject: greetings from tokyo...


...and best wishes for an intensely wonderful UNITY; wish i could be there
(and here too!).

fyi, a quick check in a record store in harajuku shows a strong house/rave
presence in the dance section (itself quite large).  and familiar-looking
flyers in the neighborhood skateboard/snowboard shop, maybe a little in the
direction of hip-house compared with SF.  rave on....

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 01:04:32 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 93 0:57:31 PDT
Subject: Re: your mail

Larry Ching sez:
> 
>  BTW - Longs traffic lines to get into Shoreline Amphitheatre at
> about 7PM - New Order / 808 State must have sold out the place.
> 

Actually I don't think it did... Gunther and I were 15 rows back
center, and there were empty seats around us.  I'm surprised someone
from the grass seats didn't take advantage of them.

Not really rave related, so I'll be quick:  New Order put on the best
show I've ever seen them do (sort of a semi-yearly ritual for me...),
intense light show (definantly better than last time, better than
the technique tour), played a good mix of songs old and new (some off
the new album, and they played temptation and as it is when it was).

The The started with Infected, and ended 2 or 3 songs later due to
tech. problems (Matt Johnson sounded kind of pissed).

808 played an absolutely great opening set.  I'm biased because I
really like them, but I was wishing that they didn't have to be first
since they had no real light show and the crowd wasn't all that into
them.  I was, though :-)

-H-


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
		Love the music... it will love you back.
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 01:54:31 1993
From: Chris Concepcion <audran@netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1993 01:34:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: your mail

Yeh, it's not rave related, but I felt like responding...

On Sun, 25 Jul 1993, Howard Berkey wrote:

> Not really rave related, so I'll be quick:  New Order put on the best
> show I've ever seen them do (sort of a semi-yearly ritual for me...),
> intense light show (definantly better than last time, better than
> the technique tour), played a good mix of songs old and new (some off
> the new album, and they played temptation and as it is when it was).
> 
	Yeah, 'twas a kickin' gig and it shows a lot depth for a band to
be able to pull off an hour and a half show filled with good stuph and
still leave a lot of requests hangin' in the air.

> The The started with Infected, and ended 2 or 3 songs later due to 
> tech. problems (Matt Johnson sounded kind of pissed).

	Their rendition of Infected also sucked slightly coz they slowed it 
down, and it really doesn't work.  The treble was so off that it was
impossible to make any sense of the vocals, which is a pity, because their
set had the potential to be really good. 
	
> 808 played an absolutely great opening set.  I'm biased because I
> really like them, but I was wishing that they didn't have to be first
> since they had no real light show and the crowd wasn't all that into
> them.  I was, though :-)
> 

	Gods, ditto, ditto, ditto.  Lineup should've been, imho, The The -
New Order - 808 State ;)  Either that or wait 'til nine before bringing
808 on, so one had some dimness going.   Intense renditions of Time Bomb and
Cubik, and it was an extra bonus that they brought those guys from UB40 on.

- Audran



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 09:57:50 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 93 09:51:30 -0700
Subject: People in town..

What a party!
I just got in the door ,and need to get some much needed rest after
Unity..but I was just thinking..since there are some visitors in town,
that maybye we could all go out to dinner somewhere later..
That is, if people have any energy left.
I for one,would love to get the chance to meet some of these people....
-Chris.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 12:21:14 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1993 12:09:08 -0700
Subject: Unity was great!


        Unity went off REALLY well last night - it had everything that
makes a great party great, and I had to work hard to find anything
negative about it.  The attendance looked to be about 1800-2000 - not
as many as at the last benefit party (3000 paid) but still large
enough to feel... epic-sized. Let me enumerate the few bad things I
knew of first because the list of good things will go on forever....

The BAD:

1) The lasers were being aimed WAY too low - at one point drawing entire
designs on the face of someone standing closeby.... I told the laser guy it
really bothered me that they were so low and so powerful, but he gave the 
standard "it's moving way too fast" reply.  I had understood that a laser of
that power is regarded at the same level as radiation from nuclear waste,
and harmful exposure can lead to $100,000 fines.... anyways.

2) SO HOTHOTHOT - but I guess this is a good thing too :)

3) The sound, unless you were on the dance floor itself, was rumbly and
distorted.... but in the middle it sounded really clear.


the GOOD:

	From the beginning:

1)  only $15 at the door, not the $20 I had anticipated.

2) the layout of the place was the best I had ever seen, with the
possible exception of the closing of the big room that had been the
ambient temple last time.  The Wicked setup in the *hallway*  was
absolutely brilliant - so much concentrated energy there, it was
incredible.  The main floor didn't have the big canopy previous
parties had, but there were SO MANY VISUALS there, including a
strong red and another strong green laser.  Plenty of room, never 
really felt immensely crowded.... the ambient temple was really 
really well done, a lot of work went into the altar.

3) the PEOPLE!  So nice to see everyone, especially a few I hadn't
seen in a LONG time.  Two people in particular it was great to see
were Mykl and.... MALACHY!  He arrived in his special converted van,
and wheeled in on his wheelchair and visited and talked with people
from about 4am to 6am.... it was personally very touching to see him
there.

4) The music was a lot fresher than I had anticipated - the 
"recognizability" factor was low, and I enjoyed that (or maybe
it's just a sign of me going out to fewer parties :)  Jeno played
an absolutely brutal set, not hardcore or harsh but just POUNDING...

Many good things.... basically, if you could stick one rave in a time
capsule to signify our times, I would place this one :)  

	Brian

p.s. - it was also sorta personally good for me because.... I had taken a 
break from the Malachy meetings after coming back from the east, in part
because I had been feeling a lot of sadness over the fact that I seemed
to be the only one (or among the few) interested in trying to get these
people to work together to a logical end and a good party... and so in a 
way this party was a test to see if I could remove myself from the scene
a little bit and still be reassured that "everything would be alright".
And it is, because what makes up "the scene" is more than what any one
person can provide or hope to provide, and last night was proof of this
(at least to me :) 


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 15:31:05 1993
From: "Benjamin P. Wing" <wing@netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 93 15:24:26 -0700
Subject: Re: People in town.. 

In message <9307251651.AA00339@netcom3.netcom.com> you write:
>What a party!
>I just got in the door ,and need to get some much needed rest after
>Unity..but I was just thinking..since there are some visitors in town,
>that maybye we could all go out to dinner somewhere later..
>That is, if people have any energy left.
>I for one,would love to get the chance to meet some of these people....
>-Chris.
>

Cool!  This sounds great.  Get a bunch of S.F. SFRavers together for
dinner, etc.  I'll volunteer to get this together, if anyone is
around to receive this message ...  give me a call at 415-621-5766.

BTW didn't go to Unity last night; I went to 924 Gilman St. instead
with my roommate.  (well OK, I could have gone to Unity afterwards
since it ended at 1am but I was tired.) We caught Rancid (a group made
up mostly of former Operation Ivy members) and the last of the opening
bands, whatever it was called.  Different crowd from raves, pretty
young, but quite friendly nonetheless ...  I guess there's a certain
camaraderie you get from slamming into people :) ...  Also the Gilman
crowd is way more retro than ravers :-) ...  the 50's look is really in,
plaid button-down shirts, slacks, nerdy glasses, etc.

ben

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 20:20:17 1993
From: Jeffrey Moore <jmoore@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 25 Jul 1993 20:14:55 -0700
Subject: subscribe

The subject says it all.

-Jeff


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 21:04:41 1993
From: hyland@netcom.com (Tim Hyland)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 93 21:00:40 PDT
Subject: Non-rave club, but great house music

Hi gang, a good friend of mine just got a job DJing at a new club on
Tuesday nights.  He's been trying so long to break into the scene, and
this is his first real break.  It's at the Pit (9th and Harrison,
where Deep Faith was a while ago).  By design it's supposed to be a
gay/mixed disco, but they've done such a poor job of
flyering/advertising that it's not too crowded by anyone, yet.

The idea, though, in my mind is that whichever crowd "discovers" it
first will define the crowd that it gets later on.  It's also after
hours (open until 5:00am), which is an added bonus, although I usually
have to WORK on Wednesdays (the nerve of some companies)!

Anyway, the DJ's name is Smile-E (aka Jerry Luke).  I tried to tell
him it was a silly name, but he seems to like it.  And he does smile a
lot.  :-)  The music he plays is mostly house house/piano house/vocal
house, with some trance thrown in to boot.  He hates pop house, so
don't fear hearing Robin S. or any of your other fave KMEL
mega-house-hits.  It's all phresh.

So if you find yourself late on a Tuesday lookin' for some place to
shake your booty all night, check it out.  Details follow:

	When:	Every Tuesday, 11:00pm to 5:00am
	Where:	The Pit, 9th @ Harrison
	Cover:	free!
	Ages:	21+
	Hint:	Ignore the icky gay bar upstairs and head straight
		down the stairs to the right of the door, past the
		pool tables.

Share and Enjoy,

Tim

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Jul 25 23:06:47 1993
From: saucyboy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 01:50:30 EDT
Subject: norder

hmmm,
I also went to New Order (my brother had won some free tix and couldn't go,
so lucky me!) I had a great time. Our tix were on the lawn, which turned out
to be good, because we had lots of space to dance. Whole crowd around me were
all dancing, clapping hands, singing along, generally having a good time.
Made me feel really good. Nobody was self concious because everyone was too
busy watching and enjoying the show. And, lots of smiles from this crowd --
almost a rave-type experience! This made me feel a little better about not
being able to go to Unity afterwards. (Did anybody else notice that Bernard
Sumner - the lead singer - was wearing a T-shirt which said "Unity"?)
interesting...

Had some delays getting there, so to my extreme dismay, missed 808 State's
entire set. As we stepped on to the lawn, we heard the last two grunts of
Cubik and the band saying "thankyou" - we were quite disappointed. I agree
that The The should have been first to play, but it was free so I
can'tcomplain. I'll see 808 State some day...

...does this relate to raves? I don't know.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 02:54:55 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 02:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: East Bay Lunch???

The South Bay Lunches seem to have become a regular thing now, but what
about an East Bay SFR Lunch?  I have no car, so it is almost impossible
for me to make it to the S. Bay.  Are there enough sfravers in the East to
make this happen?  Brian lives here in B-town, and I know there are other
Cal sfravers.  So......?  Maybe it could take place down at the Berkeley
Marina or at Aquatic Park (both beautiful locations).  Any takers?

And one more quick question...  what the hell does IHMO (or IMHO?)  mean? 
I see it in just about every other post, but still haven't been able to
figure it out.  Oh well, call me naive. 

///////{{{{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<<<<232>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 08:18:21 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 08:14:55 -0700
Subject: Mon 7/26: Outdoor/Free Party in Santa Cruz!


A friend of mine asked me to post this to the list...

Monday Night, July 7/26, there will be a free OUTDOOR party -- Simple --
featuring DJs Will, Eric Hill, Sean, Tony, Alonzo and others.

Call 408-993-8618 for details.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 08:27:03 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 8:19:03 PDT
Subject: Re: greetings from tokyo...

Hi Bob,
   Its great to see you're having a good time in Tokyo.
If you're looking for rave-related sights to see..a close friend of mine
(And a friend of Preston's too..) is Connie Yee.She was singlehandedly
credited with briinging rave to Japan several years ago..and is very well
connected as to parties there..Bob, if you would like to contact
her,please drop me a line and I'll send you her phone #.She would love to
hear news of what has been happening here in SF.
-Chris.
ccat@netcom.com


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 08:49:39 1993
From: drlewi1@srv.pacbell.com (Dave Lewis)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 08:46:43 PDT
Subject: What's Coming Down - Sobering Perspective

sfraves readers and everyone else,

As Jerry Mander says (paraphrased) - one should not only be skeptical
of claims of a new technolog's potential, but should further provide
active resistance to its introduction; this to provide some opposition
along the too well greased road to acceptance and widespread use which
new technologies enjoy in this technopoly.  In the end, over time, the
unhealthy qualities of an at first promising, enthusiastically endorsed
technology (technique, tool...), will show through; only by then it
will be to late to alter its form or perhaps to halt it altogether.

With this in mind I think this following post - by Gerald Phillips
deserves a wide readership.

Dave

----- Begin Included Message -----

>From IPCT-L@GUVM.CCF.GEORGETOWN.EDU Thu Jul 22 15:43:29 1993
Date:         Thu, 22 Jul 1993 17:35:44 -0400
Reply-To: Interpersonal Computing and Technology <IPCT-L@GUVM.CCF.GEORGETOWN.EDU>
Sender: Interpersonal Computing and Technology <IPCT-L@GUVM.CCF.GEORGETOWN.EDU>
Subject:      A response to the dreamers
To: Multiple recipients of list IPCT-L <IPCT-L@GUVM.CCF.GEORGETOWN.EDU>
Content-Length: 3858
X-Lines: 73

From: GMP@PSUVM.BITNET

Recently, another network posted long statements by optimistic science
fiction writers about the future of Internet and related activities.

I would like to offer my response here because I know there are dedicated
people who will answer eloquently.  My view is a dark view.

A Reply to the Dreamers

Perhaps, one ought to look at the worst-case scenario, only the best-case
scenario presented by Sterling & Gibson is not so good.  What I see is a
school system, already filled with illiterates, teachers and students,
imprisoned by technology and cut off from the flow of ideas.

Our contemporary school systems do not do well teaching the alphabet and
simple number concepts.  Children cannot read, cannot add.  Many educators
ascribe the decline in intellectual accomplishment to corruption of time by
the media.

Children do not have the time to dream and to play because their work is
structured for them so they are autistic.  Everything from Little League to
Nintendo is planned and implemented by adults.  And they imitate their
corporate elders by forming themselves into gangs, cults, cliques, roving
bands of socipaths.

There is no time to learn to make friends.  There is no time to learn to
write poetry or appreciate music.  There is intercourse at an early age and
throbbing noise to which they do tribal dances.  The electric guitar was the
beginning of the corruption.  The breakup of the nuclear family carried it
further.  The decline in respect for the school system made the job of
school teacher only slightly better than baby sitter.

Now, our mavens want to go further and mechanize the whole thing by taking
our children away from any contact with reality and making cyborgs of them.

This medium is an addiction.  It is of no consequence to me.  I am aged and
I will disappear before the real technological revolution comes.  I can take
advantage of free access to Internet and enjoy free speech before MCI
descends and allows only the wealthy to play.  It is my grandchildren who
will be imprisoned by enforced addiction to electronic media.  It will be my
grandchildren who will be taken away from books and art and ballet and
riveted to the screen, compelled to endure the rays that emanate therefrom,
their minds to rot away from lack of contact with a real sun.

The veritable world of tomorrow has been portrayed sufficiently by the
imaginative geniuses in science fiction.  But remember, science fiction
writers are, above all, writers.  They are masters of plot, and timing, and
language, all of which can be destroyed utterly by virtual education.

Spare my grandchildren from your technology.  It has already destroyed my
economy, so that in the next generation not enough people will be employed
to buy it.  Spare my grand children from your technology.  It has already
created a world of haves and have nots.  Who can afford the upgrades and
the wonderful new chips?  Only the elite, who are sufficiently elite to
demand the privilege to live in a real world and to connect with the past
can use the new technology without becoming its prisoner.

I foresee a world of people chained to machines, like the world the Luddites
fought in vain.  The Luddites may have gone too far, but their message was
correct. We must have respect for human labor and the dignity of the
individual.  It is time for another Luddite revolution, a return to a labor-
intensive economy and a people-intensive education.

Copyright USA 1993   All Rights Reserved

GMP@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Gerald M. Phillips (Professor Emeritus), Speech Communication
Trade and Applied Books Editor, Hampton Press
Editor, IPCT: An Electronic Journal for the 21st Century
ISSN 1064-4326.  Send submissions to GMP3 at PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802
Manuscripts are being accepted for the July, 1993 issue


----- End Included Message -----



----- End Included Message -----



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 10:12:56 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (leah)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 10:05:22 -0700
Subject: Re: East Bay Lunch???

east bay lunches sound great.  also, I have offered my apartment as
a place for a pre-fmr dinner/bbq/whatever since some of the ne-ravers
are staying with me (4 of them right now... =).  so if there is any
interest in this, I'll be more than happy to plan something like a
potluck...

always, leah




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 10:18:28 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 18:08:00 BST
Subject: Re: What's Coming Down - Sobering Perspective


  Dave> As Jerry Mander says (paraphrased) - one should not only be skeptical
  Dave> of claims of a new technolog's potential, but should further provide
  Dave> active resistance to its introduction; this to provide some opposition
  Dave> along the too well greased road to acceptance and widespread use which
  Dave> new technologies enjoy in this technopoly.  In the end, over time, the
  Dave> unhealthy qualities of an at first promising, enthusiastically endorsed
  Dave> technology (technique, tool...), will show through; only by then it
  Dave> will be to late to alter its form or perhaps to halt it altogether.

  Dave> With this in mind I think this following post - by Gerald Phillips
  Dave> deserves a wide readership.

[Long article by Gerald Phillips deleted]


Whilst i kind of agree with the sentiments above, and some of those in
Gerald Phillips' article, i have some problems with it...

  Gerald> There is [...] throbbing noise to which they do tribal dances.

Well, he's pretty dismissive of something that we all regard as pretty
important to us.  Not a good start....  :)

My problem with this is that i have a sneaking suspicion that this guy
is a puritan, and doesn't approve of having fun....

  Gerald> Spare my grandchildren from your technology.  It has already
  Gerald> destroyed my economy, so that in the next generation not
  Gerald> enough people will be employed to buy it.  [...] The
  Gerald> Luddites may have gone too far, but their message was
  Gerald> correct. We must have respect for human labor and the
  Gerald> dignity of the individual.  It is time for another Luddite
  Gerald> revolution, a return to a labor- intensive economy and a
  Gerald> people-intensive education.

Ok, now he's out with it: the puritan work ethic.  The problems of our
society will all be solved by everyone spending their waking hours
performing mind-numbing tasks when they would rather be doing more
valuable (to them) things...

I just can't buy this message.  It's a very defeatist message to say
that we can't attempt to use technology constructively in our society,
to give more time for leisure and creativity to *all* members of
society, not just to the wealthy few...

As I see it, technology isn't the problem...  our problem is that we
live in a society which in which materialism is ingrained into us from
birth.  

In any case, if we smash the machines, will it really solve the
problems?  Of course not -- it will just result in even more
mind-numbing low-paid jobs.

We need to cure our society of its problems.  Just finding a scapegoat
(be it technology, drugs, or whatever) and treating the symptoms will
not do any lasting good.  Unless we can build a society in which
people *care*, society will remain as broken as it is today.

Maybe, just maybe, his grandchildren, who do tribal dances to
throbbing noise, might learn how to build a society that works...

I really hope they do, but i have to say that deep down, i fear that
things will just continue to get worse.  Maybe i am a defeatist after
all...

	Cosmic


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 11:25:19 1993
From: zdross@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 11:03:54 -0700
Subject: UNITY

Well, all in all, this Unity was much better than the previous one, for several
reasons:

1.  The Vibe was much better here than last time.  (recall, last Unity was 
	source for the 'shared water bottle' controversy.... :) )

2.  The price was 15 bucks, not 20.

3.  The lasers were Really Cool.

4.  The Ambient Room and temple was so cool, especially with the paintings!

5.  Simon exploded again, and Dutch brought an effects box to add reverbs to his
	set.  


There was only one part in the evening that I thought was lame, and that was 
while I was chilling in the ambient room.  This song came on with some bit 
speech saying that "rave culture is the future" and psilocybin is the key or
some other bullshit like that.  So phony that it took me a few minutes to 
realize that it wasn't a joke.


Also, the monk at the end was bizarre.  He said some things about how we 
won't be able to live with our technology, and that we should learn how to
farm.  Please!

I'm not really sure about the messages that are sent out at some parties
about returning to a tribal soceity.  It seems sort of hypocritcal to make
such assertions at a full-blown techno-party.


Otherwise, all went nicely.  I think that Basics next week will be awesome,
and hope to see some of you there!

Zak

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 11:37:55 1993
From: athurman@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (allison thurman)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 14:27:42 EDT
Subject: Re:      hundredmonkeys eat jello<<

From owner-seraves@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU Sat Jul 24 10:02:56 1993
From: hundred monkeys <hundredm@CYBERNET.CSE.FAU.EDU>
Date:         Sat, 24 Jul 1993 14:02:56 EDT
Subject:      hundredmonkeys eat jello<<

attention: hundredmonkeys has a new email address, it is as follows:

    ----------> hundredm@cybernet.cse.fau.edu

any questions concerning seraves badges or hundrdmonkey info can be sent
here....so far 9-10 badges have been sold in total, so keep those orders
coming in and show your support...

in addition we have just released our latest cassette ep entitled
'sark'....over 30 minutes long on highbias chrome cassette it encompasses
a range of music from trancecore to house and and highambience....color
cover designed by hundredmonkeys and a free 'sampler' casstte of upcoming
new productions from us is also included...also look for one of our tracks
on the upcoming 'galaxies 2' (i think) from havoc records (courtesty of
taylor808)....price for cassttes is a reasonable $4.00 donation plus
$1s/h....also soon to be available at tower atlanta...

hundredmonkeys
272 springdale dr ne
atlanta ga 30305
404 605 7473 (vmail)

later!chrisb hundredmonkeys

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 11:44:54 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 14:34:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Unity was great!

Unity was tremendous. I am truly inspired at what a good event it was.

The only negative thing I can say about it is that a couple of
Richmond police were there all night, and being pretty nosy. To their
credit, however, I didn't see them hassling anybody.

The ambient room was the best I've ever seen. There were projected
slides, parachutes with twinkling lights underneath, an altar, plenty
of beanbags and my favorite, lots of flourescent paints and paper.
People were painting their messages of love and hope and taping them
to the wall. And to walk in and hear the Orb. Yeah :).

The vibe was great, and people seemed really friendly. Jeno played
the most bizarre deep stuff I've ever heard, and people were going
crazy over it. :)

The visuals and laser show were spectacular. They had a 10 watt argon
(green) laser and another one doing red and blue. The laser
programming itself was *very* well done, worth the $15 in itself.

The promoters (esp the YSH people) were really friendly and positive.

Free bananas and (sunkist, yum!) orange slices, smiles all around, the
sfraves posse, and the togetherness at the end when the lights came up
made it a terrific event for me.

If you didn't make it this time, definitely *go* next time.

10 out of 10.

Sean

PS - A scene at the end when most have dispersed (note they didn't
shoo everyone out): Promoter is having kind words with participant.
Promoter says "Are you tripping? Do you need a ride?" Confused trippy
person says yes. Promoter runs off, finds a ride for him, brings him
over. Smiles abound. Everyone is taken care of. :)


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 13:02:07 1993
From: drlewi1@srv.pacbell.com (Dave Lewis)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 12:56:04 PDT
Subject: Re: What's Coming Down - Sobering Perspective

<uninvited politics on>
My post - which included Dr. Phillip's little essay Response to the
Dreamers - was intended to remind those who have forgotten that
technology doesn't magically take forms and find applications which we
find healthy in our society.  The TV and automobile were praised when
first invented; most would say their widespread adoption has brought
tremendously unhealthy effects with them.  Computers and other tools of
analysis have (among other things) pushed aside time honored wisdom and
replaced it with essentially 'valueless' methods which produce results
which are more harmful than helpful to society, to human kind, to the
earth's life.  The international computer network does more harm than
good at is stands; decisions are made in boardrooms in tall glass
buildings to benefit the bottom line which destroy the ways of life of
far off 'natives.'  But...

The Internet is something quite different than the TV and Car.  It may
turn out to be really great - I am rather optimistic about this - IF it
doesn't get mutated by special interests into something which serves
only their interests to the exclusion of its real potential to benefit
earth.  Personally, I think it is perhaps our last best hope of freeing
ourselves from the evils of the puritan work ethic (not that a hearty
work ethic is all evil) - from enslavement by the money mongers
"wilding" freely throughout our world in the name of unbridled
capitalism.  It could be the enabler of a return to a valuing of
the individual (instead of just 'capital').  Then again it could become
another tool used by over-wealth-concious to continue their stranglehold.

Before you praise your god(s) for creation of the Internet - perhaps while
chilling out during a rave - consider informed participation in our
democracy.  Read Technopoloy by Niel Postman, or In Absence of
the Sacred by Jerry Mander
<uninvited politics off>

Dave

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 13:44:27 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:28:58 EDT
Subject: What's Coming Down - Sobering Perspective

[Note - Mild flame content. -Sean]

Gerald Phillips writes:

|Perhaps, one ought to look at the worst-case scenario, only the best-case
|scenario presented by Sterling & Gibson is not so good.  What I see is a
|school system, already filled with illiterates, teachers and students,
|imprisoned by technology and cut off from the flow of ideas.
|
|Our contemporary school systems do not do well teaching the alphabet and
|simple number concepts.  Children cannot read, cannot add.  Many educators
|ascribe the decline in intellectual accomplishment to corruption of time by
|the media.

This is a blanket statement that is simply false. True, illiteracy is
a problem, but to read Phillips' statement here, no child can read,
and no school system does well. We know this isn't true, and Phillips
probably knows this, so why is he stating it this way? To make the
problem seem bigger than it really is. Oh, it is a problem all right,
but he's skewing the statistics just a little.

Personally, I don't think that the problem with schools is the
corruption of time, I think it is a rigid paradigm of thought on how
people should be taught, and how people learn.

In this aspect, computers represent the brightest hope yet. Computers
represent the possibility of completely individualized instruction and
adaptation to how an individual student learns best. As networking
technology advances, computers will represent an incomprehensably huge
multimedia interactive library at the fingertips. Imagine a child who
is interested in airplanes being able to pull up pictures and 3D
videos. Exploded diagrams of jet engines, simulations ("what happens if
I do this?"), etc. will make learning possible that is practically
impossible now.

|Children do not have the time to dream and to play because their work is
|structured for them so they are autistic.  Everything from Little League to
|Nintendo is planned and implemented by adults.  And they imitate their
|corporate elders by forming themselves into gangs, cults, cliques, roving
|bands of socipaths.

Once again, blanket statements, and not true. Adults do plan a lot of
activities, but I think it's safe to say that most children have
plenty of play time. Children below certain ages, by the way, can't
plan activities except in the very simplest fashion. Check out a
developmental psychology text and read about the stages of
development.

I'd hardly call gangs, cults, etc. an imitation of corporate elders
(though Richard Stallman may disagree). This sort of sociopathic
behavior--and we're lumping together lots of different things here--is
complex. Imitation may be part of its source but there are many other
driving factors too. See the book "Iron John" by Robert Bly. It talks
a lot about initiation and acceptance and the lack thereof in our now
fast society, which I think has a lot to do with gangs, etc.

|There is no time to learn to make friends.  There is no time to learn to
|write poetry or appreciate music.

I don't think lack of time is the problem, I think parents are the
problem. Parents need to spend real time with their kids. To talk with
them and get to know them. To help them out and teach them what they
can.

The time is there. It's just being spent unwisely. People want to have
kids. They don't want to put the work into doing it right.

|There is intercourse at an early age and throbbing noise to which
|they do tribal dances.

So? These are good things. Fun things. Makes for healthy minds and
bodies. (But wrap that rascal.)

|The electric guitar was the beginning of the corruption. The breakup
|of the nuclear family carried it further.

The electric guitar was the beginning of rebellion. Against what?
Against soapy clean conservative 50s Ward Cleaver values. Strong men.
Women in the kitchen. Short hair. Get a job. Raise a family. Watch TV.

Phillips isn't talking about problems, he's talking about the reaction
to the problems. I don't think the structure of the family is anywhere
near as important as the quality of interactions within that family.

|The decline in respect for the school system made the job of
|school teacher only slightly better than baby sitter.
|
|Now, our mavens want to go further and mechanize the whole thing by taking
|our children away from any contact with reality and making cyborgs of them.

What mavens are those?

|This medium is an addiction.  It is of no consequence to me.  I am aged and
|I will disappear before the real technological revolution comes.  I can take
|advantage of free access to Internet and enjoy free speech before MCI
|descends and allows only the wealthy to play.  It is my grandchildren who
|will be imprisoned by enforced addiction to electronic media.  It will be my
|grandchildren who will be taken away from books and art and ballet and
|riveted to the screen, compelled to endure the rays that emanate therefrom,
|their minds to rot away from lack of contact with a real sun.

Look deeper into the problem. Why do people become addicted to
computers? A good question is: Why are computers more fun than real
life?

Is this a problem with computers, or with real life?

|The veritable world of tomorrow has been portrayed sufficiently by the
|imaginative geniuses in science fiction.  But remember, science fiction
|writers are, above all, writers.  They are masters of plot, and timing, and
|language, all of which can be destroyed utterly by virtual education.
|
|Spare my grandchildren from your technology.  It has already destroyed my
|economy, so that in the next generation not enough people will be employed
|to buy it.  Spare my grand children from your technology.  It has already
|created a world of haves and have nots.  Who can afford the upgrades and
|the wonderful new chips?  Only the elite, who are sufficiently elite to
|demand the privilege to live in a real world and to connect with the past
|can use the new technology without becoming its prisoner.

Class division is a symptom of Capitalism. Computers are just a small
part of that bigger picture which has been going on a long time. I'll
spare you my opinionated ranting on why I believe capitalism is a poor
economic system for us at this time. Just put in your time capsule
that Sean Casey said that in 2200, the history books will say that
capitalism was one of the greatest impediments to our societal growth.

Only the elite can afford the wonderful new stuff, yet everyone is
going to get addicted to the wonderful new stuff? Eh?

|I foresee a world of people chained to machines, like the world the Luddites
|fought in vain.  The Luddites may have gone too far, but their message was
|correct. We must have respect for human labor and the dignity of the
|individual.  It is time for another Luddite revolution, a return to a labor-
|intensive economy and a people-intensive education.

A return to 50s values? I'd rather see a Star Trek like future where
menial tasks can be done by machine, and people are freed up to pursue
more ambitious goals. Oh, you can still do menial labor if you want,
but it's a choice one can make for themselves.

			     ------------

Computers, I think, are one of our greatest hopes for a well educated
well connected society. The misuse of computers isn't a problem, but
a symptom of deeper problems within our society.

Sooner, or later, we'll figure this out. Just as we found prohibition
didn't work, we'll find out once everyone is in jail that perhaps we
need to address the root problems in our society. We'll find that if
we want a nice place to live we'll have to work at it.

I find Phillips' ideas interesting, but mostly paranoid and not very
substantial. It surprises me that a professor emeritus and editor
would find such a shallow interpretation of the signs. Perhaps he
should direct some of that laser beam criticism of the educational
system upon himself.

Sean


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 13:55:40 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:53:39 -0400
Subject: Re:  TEKNO BBS

Hi Rick (et. al.),
I just got my first shipment today from Techno_Direct out of TX. It took
about 2 weeks, they shipped it COD, and it arrived well-packaged. Apparently
they order a lot of stuff from their distributors as our orders go in. Oh 
yeah, they took my order over the Net so I didn't have to call the BBS.
They also threw in a free 12" house track :) as well. I emailed another
order just a few hours ago.
Peace...
harry

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 14:13:58 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 14:04:58 PDT
Subject: Come/Unity tapes for sale


I will be selling Come/Unity tapes.  These tapes were recorded 4/17/93
live at the Richmond Civic Auditorium and comprise the complete night
of music from the main room.

DJs are Spun, Simon, Jeno, Garth, Markie Mark, and Josh.

6 tape set, on normal (type I) tape, all 90 minutes except for tape 6
which is 70 minutes.  Good sound (and I'm picky).  J card artwork is
black and white and was contributed by 6 different artists.

There were only 250 sets made up, so get them while you can!

In person, the sets are $25.  I'll bring sets to the South Bay lunch
this week, and also have some here with me at work (Oracle, Redwood
City, just off of 101) if you desperately need one.

By mail, sets are $30.  If you mail order, and I sell out, by default
I will refund your money.  If you would rather have me substitute in
the case of a sell out, please note this on your order, and I will
send one set of C2 tapes plus the new Carlos tape (see below) instead.

Please note that I'm making ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on the Come/Unity
tapes, I'm just helping out with the sales.  Please also note that I
had NOTHING to do with the recording or production of these tapes.
All funds after cost will be donated to the Malachy O'Brien Healing
Fund.  (All funds given to me will immediately be turned over to the
person in charge of tape sales.)

There is a new Carlos tape which I will be distributing soon, probably
starting Wednesday.  It is a 90 minute tape, BASF chrome (type II)
tape, Dolby HX pro.  Recorded on DAT, production master DAT -> DAT.
Partial proceeds to the Malachy O'Brien Healing Fund, at least $5 per
tape, more if they sell well.  Color J card.  This tape was recorded
in May, before Carlos had his crate of records stolen.  $10 in person,
$13 mail order.

I'm also still selling the Connection II tapes in person and mail
order.  4 tapes, almost 6 hours of music, BASF super chrome tape,
Dolby HX pro.  Professional color J card.  Recorded on DAT in
mid-March, production master DAT -> DAT.  Partial proceeds ($5 per
set) to the Malachy O'Brien Healing Fund.  DJs are Moonpup, Jon
Drukman (UVC, Twitch Records), Lee, Blurrr (Florida) and others.  $15
in person, $20 mail order.

To mail order: send well-wrapped cash (preferred), money order or
cashiers check to:

Bob Ramstad
P.O. Box 390931
Mountain View CA  94039-0931

Include a list of items ordered and a LEGIBLE return shipping address
on a separate piece of paper inside the envelope.  Add $5 per order
for shipment outside the US.

If sending $$$ to someone you don't know freaks you out, relax!  I'm
part of the SF rave community, have a "real job" here at Oracle, and I
live in Mountain View -- call (415) directory assistance if you want
to verify...  Again, cash is preferred, less hassle for everybody.

Wholesale inquiries can also be sent to the PO box above, or emailed
to me at boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com (preferred) or
rramstad@us.oracle.com.

When making an order, if you have email access, please send mail to
rave-tapes%groovy@us.oracle.com like this:

To: rave-tapes%groovy@us.oracle.com
Subject: tape order
---------------------------
jane@likethis.nyc.ny.us
Jane Raver
988 Moby Dr
New York, NY  02139
1 set of Come/Unity tapes
2 Carlos tapes

This will help me make sure to have stock on hand when your order
comes in.  It also makes my life easier, as I can generate a shipping
label straight from your email.  The address given should match the
shipping address included with the payment, or I won't be able to
figure out who you are :-)

I try to ship orders as soon as possible.  If I'm out of any
particular item, I will refund your money, unless you specifically
state that substitutions are OK.

I look forward to hearing from each and every one of you!  Peace.

Bob Ramstad, Pleasure Seeker
boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com (preferred) or rramstad@us.oracle.com
"To rave is to affirm."

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 14:36:46 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 15:27:56 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re:  TEKNO BBS

> I just got my first shipment today from Techno_Direct out of TX. It took
> about 2 weeks, they shipped it COD, and it arrived well-packaged. Apparently
> they order a lot of stuff from their distributors as our orders go in. Oh 
> yeah, they took my order over the Net so I didn't have to call the BBS.
> They also threw in a free 12" house track :) as well. I emailed another
> order just a few hours ago.

Email address?
Pricey?  Not pricey?
Good selection?
Better than IRS or Ear/Rational?

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 14:42:05 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 17:30:35 EDT
Subject: Sean blows a knee at Unity, details at 11.

So it's late in the morning and I'm boogieing. No, you don't
understand. I was flat out *BOOGIEING* pull out all the stops Mach 3
hair on fire Dr. Frank-n-furter laughs evilly and spins ALL the dials
volcanoes erupting and angels singing. Ah, now you understand :).

I kind of had a purpose in mind. See there was this concept called THE
FLOOR. THE FLOOR was what we walk on, our base, that which is stable.
That which keeps us from falling through space. And there was this
concept of EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT THE FLOOR. I was trying to merge the
two, being low to the floor, reaching for the sky, a harmonization of
the universe above and below at 130 bpm.

So there I was, gettin radical, low to the floor, burning it at about
1000 calories per hour, evaporative cooling system on maximum, brain
in fourth dimensional hyper feedback laser overdrive, any cognitive
thought split into a billion directions at the speed of seratonin,
when I feel a -crunch- in my left knee.

Back in the early 80's, I had a friend named Ashley Brantley, a very
sweet person, who stepped into a hole while delivering a pizza. Six
operations later, she has constant pain and 30% range of motion in
that leg. I've known other people who've screwed up their knees, and
one of the lessons I've learned in this life is that you never ever
ignore a knee injury.  The penalty for failing to do so is extreme.

Back to the story. -Crunch-. Then, I'm still dancing, and -pop-.
Another -pop-. Felt, not heard (are you kidding?). Somewhere in the
back of my brain, the part that keeps you alive and things like that,
a code-red God-priority message comes up and manages to tickle my
consciousness. "Stop."

Control rods lower. Fred Flintstone puts his feet down. The heat
shield flares white and the rpms decrease--under great protest--to
idle.

I find I can walk on it without complaint. There's no pain or
swelling, but put any stress on it--fast walking, dancing, etc--and
something grinds in there.

So I'm going to a good knee surgeon tomorrow for a diagnosis. I hope I
don't need surgery. In any case, it's a good bet I'm out of action for
a while :( :( :(. But don't count me out! Boogie or no, I'll be bobbin
my head, serving juice, or maybe just dispensing smiles. Wish me luck.
I'll let you know what Doc says.

Sean


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 14:56:58 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 14:43:23 PDT
Subject: Unity was great!


comments on the Unity comments:

it was obvious that the lasers were way too low before the doors even
opened.  part of this is that there were multiple laser setups, and so
one guy was using the screen, another the ceiling/floor.  it was cool
looking but probably dangerous.  oh, well, i'd rather risk myself with
cool lasers than food additives.

outrageous quantities of sound, easily twice as much as i've seen at
any other event.  about the same amount of sound as when the Dead play
60,000 seat stadiums.  wild.  rick preston was the instigator -- "we
need more sound!" -- but unfortunately forgot to arrange for a truck
to take the extra sound back... so there was still gear there at 11 AM
when i finally left...  (don't worry, he'll get shit for it)

$20 cover was changed unilaterally by Mal himself to $15 because he
thought $20 was too much... this ruffled some feathers, as it was a
point of heated debate during the meetings, but hey, imho, it's Mal's
party, and he can do what he wants.  it would have been nice for him
to tell someone his feelings in advance, though, as i'm sure the
debate would have never had happened.

the layout of the place was really excellent.  the rental did not
include the large room used by I-Magi-Nation last time, as there was
another group using that room Saturday night (before Unity).
originally there was a big canopy in the main room, but it was decided
to move it into the ambient room and move the visual projection screen
into the center of the main room.  imho, this was a really good idea,
the visuals in the main room were incredible.

the ambient room was sooo good, it was too crowded.  two ambient rooms
next time, i hope.

strangely enough, i still haven't met Mal, but i did see him talking
to everyone, and i think this was very cool and positive.

i was working at Unity, and didn't work at Come/Unity, but my personal
opinion is that C/U had better music, but Unity was much better
overall -- better use of space, better production, much closer crowd
of people, great energy.  (Unity was taped and should be available
soon, perhaps when I get a listen, my opinion on the music will change
too!)  Jeno comes in two flavors, mundane (where he's not even as good
as the average SF DJ) and godlike (when no one can touch him) --- he
was godlike at Unity as well as at C/U...

the richmond police were doing their jobs.  personally, i think it's
important that we make it clear to the police that we have nothing to
hide.  they did hassle a few people, but this was in response to open
drug use -- there were many people who were flying high, but the cops
knew they couldn't prove anything or do anything about it, and so they
left these people alone...  imho, about the coolest response one can
expect from a cop.  two cops hung out all night in the ambient room,
probably looking for people smoking reefer, but maybe they got off on
it :-)

looking forward to the next one,
Bob

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 15:03:21 1993
From: spring@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (spring)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 17:49:10 EDT
Subject: terrence mckenna

I notice many people cite Terrence Mckenna for his speculations on rave 
culture and his presumed "archaic revival."  

Does anybody take Terrence McKenna seriously?

His recent article in MONDO 2000 seems to strain some of his validity.

Ufo's? really, what's the importance?

this is somewhat rave related but I also must satiate my curiousity,

MILES

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 15:21:34 1993
From: "Mike Romo" <mike_romo@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 26 Jul 1993 14:39:47 -0800
Subject: Unity revue

                                          Unity revue
Well, what a great time!  Good to see Lee (it has been a long time!), Neils,
Mykl, the Normals, Brian, etc...probably the most SFRavers I have  seen at an
event in a long time.  I hope to see you all at Basics...
like the last party, the crowd was fairly good, but not as cohesive as they can
be.  Holding hands at the very end was awesome, though, and the night really
revitalized my idea of the scene, which has been dwindling, at least compared
to last summer...
I really liked Scott Hardkiss' set, and Simon was incredible.  I am still
kicking myself for missing Dutch's set--but I heard it was fantastic.  The boy
is dope!

Well, just thought I would drop a note.  Work is very slow right about now...

Have an excellent weak, rest up, be happy, and if you find my Driver's License,
gimme a call!

take care
mike



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 15:25:32 1993
From: rsammuli@ceti.csustan.edu (Robert Sammuli)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 15:12:36 PDT
Subject: Re: A cool quote...


Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com> writes:

> pete reiter quotes:
> >     "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"
>
> william s burroughs.
>
> /jon

Sure this quote is catchy and sounds cool and all, but it's one of the
stupidest anti-intellectual things I've ever heard.

You might just as easily say "Talking about food is like cooking about
politics."

We're human.  We talk.  We analyze.  This is good and healthy, and
perhaps one of the main purposes of sf-raves and similar mailing lists.
If you just want to go to raves and say "The music is sacred!  It cannot
be analyzed or broken down!" then fine, but I don't see why you would
want to be on a communication-oriented verbally-exclusive mailing list
like sfraves.

BTW- I'll be in San Francisco in four days!  I can't wait to see/meet you
all!

Michael                 |  groovin' in the chocolate city!
(inhuman@phantom.c


	Whatever...It was just a stupid quote,  yeh I admit it was kinda
corny but who makes you the one to be so critical of someones opinion.
Maybe you're one of the
stupidest anti-intellectual things to exist in this world.  You shouldn.t
be so bold as to ponder the destiny of communication-oriented verbally-exclusive
language until you the learn the linquistics of what you're trying to express
by the means of your biased-kute-n-jute boof-corn attitude.
	But you know....None of the shit I write means much of anything in
this cynical planet with co-exist with,   because they're always be some
fuck who comes along to degrade the things you say for the point of starting a 
arguement.   Oh well....Nothing personal....Just making conversation.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 15:33:19 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 15:07:10 PDT
Subject: SFRaves Golden Gate Park Rave!


Like the Full Moon Raves, there was an undeniable magic that surrounded
the Golden Gate Park raves at Marx Meadows.  Something about raving freely
in nature under the sun with the grass and trees, relaxed and in harmony
with Earth and the community of San Francisco.  It brought us together
and reminded us of the spirit we share, of how raving is not about money
or pure hedonism, and that it is not an activity that must be hidden from 
society like some decadent scourge.  Our ritual is a celebration of all 
life, universally meaningful for our children and our elders.

Is this overly idealistic?  Perhaps.  But ideals are things we work towards,
not things that must be 100% achievable.  The vision many of us have about
raving is debateable, but sometimes we are luck enough to have the 
opportunity to act toward achieving it.  

We, the SFRave community, are going to put on a free event at GG PARK.
It is currently in the planning stages.  The main obstacle is money.  
I have volunteered to collect donations from people.  Give what you
can.  View it as not only a way to finance a party, but as a gift to the
community at large, and our way to help foster some cohesiveness and spirit
to our scene.  (This contribution will not be tax-deductable however ;-)
Hopefully, this event will revive some interest and get other movers in
the scene to turn it into an ongoing event.

Send checks, cash, gold bullion to:

Lee Fogel
2444 Van Ness Ave.  Apt. 2
San Francisco, Ca. 94109

We need to raise at least $300.  I will post a weekly acounting, but
let me know if you don't want your name posted.  All contributions will
be fully refundable at any time up to the event if you have a change of
heart for any reason.  I'll also let the list know when I go out so you
can find me in person.  Thanks for your help. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 16:10:51 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 15:51:17 PDT
Subject: Re: What's Coming Down - (LONG reply)

>   one should not only be skeptical of claims of a new technolog's [sic]
>   potential, but should further provide active resistance to its introduction;

    ...*any* technology?  There are some technologies that are worth
    opposing (nuclear fission comes to mind), but there are others that
    are empowering.  The one you attack later in your post is one of them.

>   From: GMP@PSUVM.BITNET

>   school system, already filled with illiterates, teachers and students,
>   imprisoned by technology and cut off from the flow of ideas.

    The school systems are imprisoned, if anything, by a lack of technology.
    That is what cuts them off from the flow of ideas.

>   Our contemporary school systems do not do well teaching the alphabet and
>   simple number concepts.  Children cannot read, cannot add.

    This is usually cited as a reason not to try to teach other things.
    Arithmetic may really not be as important as it once was, however.
    I can usually add up a bunch of figures in my head before one of
    my colleagues has gotten his calculator out of his pocket.  While
    this may save a few minutes at lunchtime, it really doesn't help
    me professionally or personally.  In this day and age, it is a
    nearly useless skill.  (Fortunately, I have some more useful ones).

    Reading is another matter.  But if the children are spending so
    much time in front of computers, they WILL learn to read.  Computers
    can even be programmed to facilitate the process directly.

    Bad teaching is not a new phenomenon.  One cause is that there are
    never enough good teachers.  Good teachers should spend their
    teaching time doing what only they can do:  Inspiring their students
    to learn, using all the tools available to them.

>   Many educators ascribe the decline in intellectual accomplishment
>   to corruption of time by the media.

    So the students will spend all their time studying if they are
    bored enough???

>   Children do not have the time to dream and to play because their work is
>   structured for them so they are autistic.

>   Everything from Little League

    Not much technology there, and still usually played out in the sun.

>   There is no time to learn to make friends.  There is no time to learn to
>   write poetry or appreciate music.

    It sounds like these kids appreciate lots of music.
    But the author of this piece doesn't like *that* music (see below).

>   There is intercourse at an early age

    You surely cannot blame *that* on technology!

>   throbbing noise to which they do tribal dances.

    Nothing whatever wrong with that!  Tribal dancing would seem to be
    a valid link to the past, which you rightly see as important.
    It even may provide a good place to make friends.
    What is wrong with it?  (I think I smell a hidden agenda around here).

>   The electric guitar was the beginning of the corruption.

    Was it indeed???  (sniff, sniff, sure smells like a hidden agenda)

>   The breakup of the nuclear family carried it further.

    You are afraid that the kids will be chained to computers,
    but chaining womankind to the kitchen is noooooooo problem.
    (now I'm sure I smell a Ronald-Reagan-morning-in-America-turn-back-
    the-clock-social-agenda crawling out from under that rock over there --
    I'm not at all sorry to tell you that it IS morning in America --
    The NEXT morning, not some morning 40 years ago which really only
    existed on TV).

>   The decline in respect for the school system made the job of
>   school teacher only slightly better than baby sitter.

    Nothing suggested in the cited post would do anything to help fix that.

>   Now, our mavens want to go further and mechanize the whole thing by taking
>   our children away from any contact with reality and making cyborgs of them.

    They may have more contact with reality than those whose concept of
    reality is dominated by addition, music-but-not-THAT-music, poetry,
    ballet, and every-home-with-a-housewife-cooking-and-cleaning-all-day.

>   I will disappear before the real technological revolution comes.  I can take
>   advantage of free access to Internet and enjoy free speech before MCI
>   descends and allows only the wealthy to play.

    "Freedom of the press means owning one"  (Thomas Jefferson)
    It is easier and cheaper to own one now than it ever has been,
    and far cheaper still to get on the net.  This is even true for
    non-subsidized network providers, so it should remain so.
    If this shows signs of changing for the worse, a great many of
    us will be fighting that change tooth-and-nail.

>                                                It is my grandchildren who
>   will be imprisoned by enforced addiction to electronic media.

    Enforced by whom??

>                                                            It will be my
>   grandchildren who will be taken away from books and art and ballet and

    I think it's been a rather long time (perhaps forever) since a
    measurable proportion of children were really interested in ballet.
    Books and art will be more accessable with the aid of technology.
    New art forms will be created.

>   their minds to rot away from lack of contact with a real sun.

    I thought they were supposed to be in the library and the art museums
    and ballets.   Not much sun there.

>                                They are masters of plot, and timing, and
>   language, all of which can be destroyed utterly by virtual education.

    Is the above sentence intended to be an example?

>   Spare my grandchildren from your technology.  It has already destroyed my
>   economy, so that in the next generation not enough people will be employed
>   to buy it.

    I think a lack of technology (compared to our global competitors)
    has more to do with the state of the economy.

>   It has already created a world of haves and have nots.

    I don't think so.  There have always been "haves" and "have nots".
    The gap has been getting wider, but that is the intended result
    of US government policy over the past 12 years.

>   Who can afford the upgrades and the wonderful new chips?  Only the elite,

    And the rest buy last-years wonderful new thing secondhand or at
    bargain-basement prices.  Still gets the job done.

>   sufficiently elite to demand the privilege to live in a real world

    How is "a real world" defined here?

>   and to connect with the past

    There is much of value in the past, but let's not write off the
    present and the future so quickly.

>   can use the new technology without becoming its prisoner.

    The key to using new technology (or old technology)
    without becoming its prisoner is to learn to use it to *create*,
    and to share/show/display/publish ones creations.

>   We must have respect for human labor and the dignity of the
>   individual.

    This may be the only accurate conclusion in the entire post!
    But nothing else here follows from it....

>              It is time for another Luddite revolution, a return to a labor-
>   intensive economy 

    Least of all this.  If we really respect human labor, we should not
    waste it on things that can be done better by machine.

>   and a people-intensive education.

    Yes, but give the people doing the educating all the tools they need.
    


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 16:15:35 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 15:34:05 PDT
Subject: Re: What's Coming Down - Sobering Perspective

> Personally, I don't think that the problem with schools is the
> corruption of time, I think it is a rigid paradigm of thought on how
> people should be taught, and how people learn.

OK, I'm with you here.

> In this aspect, computers represent the brightest hope yet. Computers
> represent the possibility of completely individualized instruction and
> adaptation to how an individual student learns best. As networking
> technology advances, computers will represent an incomprehensably huge
> multimedia interactive library at the fingertips. Imagine a child who
> is interested in airplanes being able to pull up pictures and 3D
> videos. Exploded diagrams of jet engines, simulations ("what happens if
> I do this?"), etc. will make learning possible that is practically
> impossible now.

Bzzzzt.  Computers represent a further homogenization of learning, removing
even the human-human interaction of a teacher and putting knowledge at a
safe remove, behind a glass screen.  People have been saying that computers
will save eduation for years.  What do most districts use them for?
Typing tutors, word-processor training, and sometimes introductory
programming -- indoctrination into the priesthood, keeping the machine fed
with more people to support the cult.

The Blue Meanies (tm) will ALWAYS be well ahead of you with their technology.
While you (wet) dream of pulling up 3D videos from remote databases of how
a jet works, the NSA, TRW, etc. pull up your credit and job history,
spending habits, and lifestyle choices, planning their domination
accordingly.  While we dream of racing tanks on Mars, they train better
and faster pilots to kill real people with real guns.

> |Children do not have the time to dream and to play because their work is
> |structured for them so they are autistic.  Everything from Little League to
> |Nintendo is planned and implemented by adults.  And they imitate their
> |corporate elders by forming themselves into gangs, cults, cliques, roving
> |bands of socipaths.
> 
> Once again, blanket statements, and not true. Adults do plan a lot of
> activities, but I think it's safe to say that most children have
> plenty of play time. Children below certain ages, by the way, can't
> plan activities except in the very simplest fashion. Check out a
> developmental psychology text and read about the stages of
> development.

Do you remember being a kid?  I remember elaborate expeditions down local
ravines that lasted all afternoon, searching for fossils, dead things,
and rich people's backyards near the lake.  I am convinced that becoming
old causes one to become stupid and assume that kids are too.  They're
not stupid, just inexperienced.  We don't even learn from our experiences
and have the gall to call them smarts.  I talked with a 12-year old outside
my house for about an hour.  He had a lot to teach me about his reality
and his life.

> I'd hardly call gangs, cults, etc. an imitation of corporate elders
> (though Richard Stallman may disagree). This sort of sociopathic
> behavior--and we're lumping together lots of different things here--is
> complex. Imitation may be part of its source but there are many other
> driving factors too. See the book "Iron John" by Robert Bly. It talks
> a lot about initiation and acceptance and the lack thereof in our now
> fast society, which I think has a lot to do with gangs, etc.

No doubt corporate is the wrong adjective -- try 'suburban'.  Children
adopt the mores, stated or not, of the society they grow up in.  To
an inner city kid, the cops are just the "blue&white gang" (P.E.) that
holds the hangin' rope.

> |There is no time to learn to make friends.  There is no time to learn to
> |write poetry or appreciate music.
> 
> I don't think lack of time is the problem, I think parents are the
> problem. Parents need to spend real time with their kids. To talk with
> them and get to know them. To help them out and teach them what they
> can.

I agree with you here, but the nuclear family is doomed to failure: both
partners must usually work in order to wastefully duplicate the possessions
of everyone else on the block.  A tribal context allows for rapid 
exposure to lots of cool stuff that different people happen to be doing.

> The time is there. It's just being spent unwisely. People want to have
> kids. They don't want to put the work into doing it right.

Usually true.  They also tend to view kids as another of their possessions
instead of a new life.

> |There is intercourse at an early age and throbbing noise to which
> |they do tribal dances.
> 
> So? These are good things. Fun things. Makes for healthy minds and
> bodies. (But wrap that rascal.)

Word.

> |The electric guitar was the beginning of the corruption. The breakup
> |of the nuclear family carried it further.
> 
> The electric guitar was the beginning of rebellion. Against what?
> Against soapy clean conservative 50s Ward Cleaver values. Strong men.
> Women in the kitchen. Short hair. Get a job. Raise a family. Watch TV.

> to the problems. I don't think the structure of the family is anywhere
> near as important as the quality of interactions within that family.

True -- and the bigger the family, the more interactions are possible.

> |The decline in respect for the school system made the job of
> |school teacher only slightly better than baby sitter.
> |
> |Now, our mavens want to go further and mechanize the whole thing by taking
> |our children away from any contact with reality and making cyborgs of them.
> 
> What mavens are those?
> 
> |This medium is an addiction.  It is of no consequence to me.  I am aged and
> |I will disappear before the real technological revolution comes.  I can take
> |advantage of free access to Internet and enjoy free speech before MCI
> |descends and allows only the wealthy to play.  It is my grandchildren who
> |will be imprisoned by enforced addiction to electronic media.  It will be my
> |grandchildren who will be taken away from books and art and ballet and
> |riveted to the screen, compelled to endure the rays that emanate therefrom,
> |their minds to rot away from lack of contact with a real sun.
> 
> Look deeper into the problem. Why do people become addicted to
> computers? A good question is: Why are computers more fun than real
> life?
> 
> Is this a problem with computers, or with real life?

Computers _are_ real life now.  Sad, eh, that we have accepted such a
substitute?  Sure, he's ranting, but he is getting at something that
Jerry Mander said more clearly: that the effects of certain technologies
are _predetermined_ by their nature.  Television is inherently 
authoritarian because it concentrates the dissemination of information
in one central authority and offers no feedback mechanism by which we can
dispute it.

> A return to 50s values? I'd rather see a Star Trek like future where
> menial tasks can be done by machine, and people are freed up to pursue
> more ambitious goals. Oh, you can still do menial labor if you want,
> but it's a choice one can make for themselves.

That's what the technology sellers tell us -- remember the 1940 World's
Fair?  Somehow it never happens -- except for the people atop the heap,
who have worked so hard to get there they have forgotten why they wanted
the leisure in the first place.  All the labor-saving devices invented
have not saved one bit of labor; they just shove it off onto someone
else, usually the underpaid illegal aliens or foreigners who built
your toy.

> Computers, I think, are one of our greatest hopes for a well educated
> well connected society. The misuse of computers isn't a problem, but
> a symptom of deeper problems within our society.

The misuse of computers is inherent in their existence.

> Sooner, or later, we'll figure this out. Just as we found prohibition
> didn't work, we'll find out once everyone is in jail that perhaps we
> need to address the root problems in our society. We'll find that if
> we want a nice place to live we'll have to work at it.

Yep.

> I find Phillips' ideas interesting, but mostly paranoid and not very
> substantial. It surprises me that a professor emeritus and editor
> would find such a shallow interpretation of the signs. Perhaps he
> should direct some of that laser beam criticism of the educational
> system upon himself.

Professors get to be arrogant and short-sighted; that's what tenure is
for.

"Technology is neutral, it's just the people using it who are bad"
is a dear illusion to those of us accustomed to it and fearful that
it might be taken away.  Unfortunately, the assumption is false.

I can't recommend "In The Absence Of The Sacred" highly enough in light
of recent discussions.

// g


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 16:17:03 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:07:17 PDT
Subject: Re: terrence mckenna

>I notice many people cite Terrence Mckenna for his speculations on rave 
>culture and his presumed "archaic revival."  
>
>Does anybody take Terrence McKenna seriously?

yes

>His recent article in MONDO 2000 seems to strain some of his validity.
>Ufo's? really, what's the importance?

well, personally, i think he's a fucking lunatic
but thats just me
well i know other people who think the same thing, but i know others
who think he is a tim leary, which he is, but
tims a luntaic too

both fun guys to talk and lsten to, but really now...

im not saying (easu312@orion.oac.uci.edu time here)
that there is anything wrong with believing that aliens
are trying to send us the instruction manuals for hyperspace drives
by giving us psilocybin cubensis....
cuz it sounds reasonable to me

i just think hes a loon

>this is somewhat rave related but I also must satiate my curiousity,

hey thats perfectly fine


 ,
dana

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 17:19:05 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:49:55 PDT
Subject: Re: terrence mckenna


Mc Kenna's concept of UFO's is not just your average everyday Mr.Spock
/little green man in a faster-than-light craft.  While he does admit that that
could be one explanation, it is by all means not the only one and
some of his other explanations are even more bizzare.


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 17:24:16 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:41:57 PDT
Subject: Re: Unity was great!

> 
> the richmond police were doing their jobs.  personally, i think it's
> important that we make it clear to the police that we have nothing to
> hide.  they did hassle a few people, but this was in response to open
> drug use -- there were many people who were flying high, but the cops
> knew they couldn't prove anything or do anything about it, and so they
> left these people alone...  imho, about the coolest response one can
> expect from a cop.  two cops hung out all night in the ambient room,
> probably looking for people smoking reefer, but maybe they got off on
> it :-)

Yeah, one of tthem in the Ambient room was one of the cops who busted the FMR
when it was in richmond.  He's kinda young and still into being "cop like".
I'm sure he was looking for overt drug use, (and most likely didn't find any 
in the ambient room at least :) I went up to him and said " Hi, you were at the last Full Moon Party, right!" He looks at me like, your talking to me? 
I just smile and wait for his answer like a normal person :) He says
Yeah I was.  I say, big difference this time huh?  Lot bigger, at least it's 
legal, but probably more work for you guys this way :).  He kinda smiles,
(always good if you can get cops to smile WITH you), and say yeah I guess so.
I say well, I gotta go dance some more, I hope you enjoy your stay!

I myself didn't like this party as much as the Come/Unity before, but it was
wonderful to see and talk to Mal and to have him about again.  I think his
active participation will hasten the healing process both for himself, and the
scene at large.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 17:25:16 1993
From: gwh@lurnix.com
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:58:06 -0700
Subject: Re: What's Coming Down - Sobering Perspective 


>Bzzzzt.  Computers represent a further homogenization of learning, removing
>even the human-human interaction of a teacher and putting knowledge at a
>safe remove, behind a glass screen.  People have been saying that computers
>will save eduation for years.  What do most districts use them for?
>Typing tutors, word-processor training, and sometimes introductory
>programming -- indoctrination into the priesthood, keeping the machine fed
>with more people to support the cult.

Bzzzt again, grigsby.  8-)

Computers _can_ enhance interpersonal interactions in a classroom,
and replace or enhance traditional information sources.  I've seen
demonstrations of that being done effectively.  That it`s not widespread
yet is the fault of numerous complex factors, nothing inherent in the
medium.

>The Blue Meanies (tm) will ALWAYS be well ahead of you with their technology.
>While you (wet) dream of pulling up 3D videos from remote databases of how
>a jet works, the NSA, TRW, etc. pull up your credit and job history,
>spending habits, and lifestyle choices, planning their domination
>accordingly.  While we dream of racing tanks on Mars, they train better
>and faster pilots to kill real people with real guns.

...and PeaceNet is working on faster ways to communicate among activists
to encourage peace and counter war, and tens of thousands of people
used email to whitehouse.gov to let the president know what was on
their mind each _day_ for the last month.  

>Do you remember being a kid?  I remember elaborate expeditions down local
>ravines that lasted all afternoon, searching for fossils, dead things,
>and rich people's backyards near the lake.  I am convinced that becoming
>old causes one to become stupid and assume that kids are too.  They're
>not stupid, just inexperienced.  We don't even learn from our experiences
>and have the gall to call them smarts.  I talked with a 12-year old outside
>my house for about an hour.  He had a lot to teach me about his reality
>and his life.

I still do elaborate expeditions out in the woods when I can,
spend time hanging out in trees, build sand castles on the beach,
etc.  I also locate information by wais, ftp, Usenet, and dozens
of mailing lists.

>Computers _are_ real life now.  Sad, eh, that we have accepted such a
>substitute?  Sure, he's ranting, but he is getting at something that
>Jerry Mander said more clearly: that the effects of certain technologies
>are _predetermined_ by their nature.  Television is inherently 
>authoritarian because it concentrates the dissemination of information
>in one central authority and offers no feedback mechanism by which we can
>dispute it.

Public-access cable demonstrates that this isn't true;
for mass market concerns, maybe not, but everyone can have
access if they really want it badly.

There are plenty of feedback mechanisms; not watching, en masse,
gets back to the studios as bad ratings, a sign of disaproval,
and things get changed.  TV shows live and die on ratings,
which are your feedback mechanism.

>That's what the technology sellers tell us -- remember the 1940 World's
>Fair?  Somehow it never happens -- except for the people atop the heap,
>who have worked so hard to get there they have forgotten why they wanted
>the leisure in the first place.  All the labor-saving devices invented
>have not saved one bit of labor; they just shove it off onto someone
>else, usually the underpaid illegal aliens or foreigners who built
>your toy.

That's a remarkably ignorant view.

>The misuse of computers is inherent in their existence.

That's a remarkably OFFENSIVE view.

>"Technology is neutral, it's just the people using it who are bad"
>is a dear illusion to those of us accustomed to it and fearful that
>it might be taken away.  Unfortunately, the assumption is false.

You can cringe from technology you see as desecrating your old
world if you want to; I'm going to go forward using it to enhance,
expand, and multiply my worlds.  I know I can both have technology
and the spiritual, real world and am going to use and enjoy both
of them, together, synergistically if possible.  You can argue
all day and night that it's impossible, but it doesn't matter;
you can't deny what I'm doing is possible.


-george



From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 17:41:35 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 18:32:16 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: terrence & tim

Wisdom from the mouths of danas:

> >Does anybody take Terrence McKenna seriously?

> well, personally, i think he's a fucking lunatic
> but thats just me
> well i know other people who think the same thing, but i know others
> who think he is a tim leary, which he is, but
> tims a luntaic too
> 
> both fun guys to talk and lsten to, but really now...

> i just think hes a loon

Hear hear.  I've always felt that Tim ol' buddy is shooting off a bit too much
about the latest and greatest trends.  Anyone remember how he was promising
Neuromancer "The Computer Game" was the hottest thing since sliced bread?
Well, it was good, but not much better than any other adventure game.  How
about the personality analyzer that Electronic Arts came out with when they
first started up?  Tim Leary is the Bill Cosby of the new age.  He'll attach
his name to just about anything on a trend, then go on to speak about it.

Joseph Campbell makes all of the above look like a bunch of toddlers.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 18:02:33 1993
From: Chris Concepcion <audran@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 17:32:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: What's Coming Down - Sobering Perspective

(Gerald, Sean's and Cosmic's deep dialogue deleted for the sake of
readability, I'm sure we're all familiar with the theses, no need for a
rehash)

	A return to a puritan work ethic is no way to recapture the "lost
arts" of ballet, literature and music that the esteemed Dr. Phillips seems
to lament over in his essay.  The very reason that we have such luxuries
as art and music and literature is that there was free time to be able to
create these work of beauty.  Work might have the benefits of providing
for the community and giving something to idle hands, but it doesn't
encourage introspection and reflection, concepts critical to the formation
and appreciation of art.  Of course, having no work ethic at all isn't
much fun either, since one is reduced to wasting days dreaming of what one
desires but lacks the energy or motivation to make those dreams real. 
There must be a balance, and I believe the good Dr.'s proposal returning
to the state of some Amish collective is unbalancing ... I like my 6-disc
CD changer, thank you very much ... and I do play opera and classical on
it on occasion, goes well with ambient techno.
	Computers are not the corrupters of youth, they're a tool, and all
tools can be used for good or ill.  Using a computer to play Prince of
Persia for days on end isn't ideal at all, but using a computer to create
things, whether its a useful program, nifty techno tune, hilarious zine or
well-written email is much better.  Computers make tasks more efficient,
efficency leads to faster work rates, which leads to more free time, which
is more time to pursue goals one really is interested in.  Of course,
that's an ideal vision, but why can't reality come close to the ideal?
I see nothing wrong with the image of the child fixed to screen,
especially if the screen contains something useful like a CD-ROM
encyclopedia or texts from the Gutenberg Project.  I'm sure that if the
good doctor saw a child listening to arias for hours on end, he wouldn't
rip the headphones off the kid, but leave another stack of CDs next to
him.  Different strokes, I s'pose ... I just wish he would recognize ours.

- Audran




From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 18:06:53 1993
From: "Government with a body count." <WHITE@ccsua.ctstateu.edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 21:00:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Here's the Techno_Direct info...


Friends...
First, I've only received one order from these folks, so keep that in mind :)
Email: 
	freeze@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu

The contact is "RC". Several sfravers asked questions about T_D:

Prices: Yeah, they are a *bit* pricey (_just_ a bit)...
	12" ran from $6-$8 for the most part; Trance2 CD cost me $20.
Selection: For 12", GREAT!! They have CDs, but there aren't many in their
	catalog. I guess they can order them.
Better than IRS or EAR/Rational? I'd be CrAzY to say that anyone could beat
	Innovative (He's the CD king in my book). I've only placed 1 order
	with Acid Boy, for a really hard-to-find CD, and he came through
	for me. Techno-Direct seems to be the place for vinyl.

Remember, I'm in Connecticut, where there is really only ONE great record
shop in the entire state (Brass City, in Waterbury). Anyway, the usual 
disclaimer applies: I am in no way affiliated with these record shops...:(
Peace.
harry

+---- --- -- - 							 - -- --- ----+
Harry White	white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu    white@csusys.ctstateu.edu
		Central Connecticut State University, New Britain, CT 06050
		                  - -- -+- -- -
 "The real meaning of the word _educate_ is _to lead the way out_." -Anais Nin
+---- --- -- -  						 - -- --- ----+


From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 18:30:03 1993
From: white@sleepy.ctstateu.edu (Harry White)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 21:21:11 -0400
Subject: Techno_Direct catalog is at the FTP site


I just uploaded the Techno_Direct catalog to the soda FTP site (I stashed
it in /incoming, obviously). Brian will give it a home, I assume. 
(Brian: I forgot to add the .sfr suffix!)
harry

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 19:00:00 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 18:44:20 -0700
Subject: East Bay picnic, SFR pre-YSH dinner, and pre-FMR sunday bbq

Okay, seems like there are a bunch of things people want to do this week
to get together, in addition to the regular South Bay lunches. 

1)  East Bay lunch - I used to have them at my place but I've since moved 
into a smaller apartment.  I propose this Wednesday from 11am to 1pm, on
Faculty Glade on the UC campus.  Bring music (boombox), food, etc - just a 
laid back picnic of sorts.

2)  Pre-YSH dinner - a couple people have suggested this idea.  Dinner around 
8pm, with a caravan to Your Sisters' House afterward.  I would suggest Phu
Ket, though if a lot of people show up maybe a self-serve place (like 
Chabella's on Haight) would be best.  ANyone know of a self-serve Thai 
place in SF?

3) Pre-FMR dinner/bbq/get together at Leah's, in Berkeley.  She has been 
wanting to have one for a while now... anyways, contact diva@uclink.
berkeley.edu for details.

Sound good to me!

	Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 19:12:33 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 21:59:38 EDT
Subject: East Bay picnic, SFR pre-YSH dinner, and pre-FMR sunday bbq

All of these sound great. Count me in :).

Sean

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 20:59:38 1993
From: The Evil Microwizard <uwiz@kazak.NMSU.Edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 21:25:35 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: monikat needs a ride!

monikat is desperately in need of a ride for the jul31 fmr.

if anyone can provide her one, please call this number:

	415-885-1765

don't reply to this, as i'm not monikat, i just met her is all :)

-gts/uwiz (Greg Samson, punkboy@u.washington.edu)

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 21:38:56 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 21:04:30 -0700
Subject: Re: monikat needs a ride!

>monikat is desperately in need of a ride for the jul31 fmr.

Just to clear things up, the FMR is the night of Sunday August 1st....

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Jul 26 22:42:44 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 22:40:20 -0700
Subject: Unity was great!

Sean's message about Unity was right on. The music was the best I've heard 
in a long time. Friendly warm crowd. My sister just came back from Europe
where she went to a Spiral Tribe and another rave I can't remember the name
of. She said that this party blew her away. She said that the energy level
and the friendliness of everyone was the highest she'd ever seen and ex-
perienced. In Europe she said people at raves weren't as open and the music
was "discoey". There were also alot of "drunken lads" who made lewd remarks
to her there. Here everyone was friendly and she didn't feel like she was
being scammed on. 
  The one thing that was strange was that 2 cops were hanging out in the
middle of the dance floor near the platform and later on another 2 were
hanging out at the door to the ambient room. It made us very nervous for
awhile. Then I just decided to ignore them and view them as being there
for my protection and relax. But it was strange. Also when we went out to
our car a patrol car drove up and was hanging around us until we left. Talk
about nervous feeling.
  It was great to see alot of familiar faces and meet some sfravers that
I was familiar with only their posts (hi Sean and Susie!). Great to see
some people that I haven't seen in a long time. And it was especially good
to see Malachy! I even enjoyed the ritual by the Tibetan monk at the end.
All in all I have to say that this was one of the best parties that I've
been to in terms of vibe, music, chill space and visuals.
  
Rox

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 00:29:16 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 23:00:46 PDT
Subject: Modern Rock Doc knows his shit

On live 105 tonight, the "Modern Rock Doc", (Gene Shoenfeld, an MD
that KITS has on every monday night) impressed me for a media source
since he :

* said THC has it's therapudic sources (quoted Brownie Mary, all but
                                   advocated THC usage)

* accurately described MDMA as an empathogen which has been
        therapudic and has potential;

* Said "LSD is the one drug since the 60's that has retained it's
        purity". (chemical-wise, that is)

* Slammed the War on Drugs as a PR campaign
	"Alcohol is more toxic than Marijuana", etc...

* I feel he accurately described (albeit on a simple level) the
  phenomenon of addictive personalities (vs. addictive substances).

* He compared alcohol usage to drug (as in war on some drugs) usage.

Moreover, one of their future guests is none other than Al Shulgin.
And this is a quote from the doctor (and almost directly out of
PiKHAL, I might add...):

"Except for tobacco, more people die from alcohol than anything else.
100,000 die from alcohol and more from tobacco each year.  Less than
5000 die from all other drugs combined in a year."

Sometimes the media surprises me.

-H-


Anyone else hear this????


C'ya,

-H-



-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
		Love the music... it will love you back.
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 01:14:02 1993
From: johnd@uclink.berkeley.edu (John Andrew Dykema)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 01:07:37 -0700
Subject: Need some help with ftp site...


Ok, this isn't a post that will enlighten most users, but...

I can get on the soda ftp site fine, but I can't figure out how
to deal with .gz files.  Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
jd

From SFRaves-request@medisg.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 01:19:15 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 26 Jul 1993 23:51:16 -0700
Subject: Re:  Modern Rock Doc knows his shit

Gene Schoenfeld is genial@well.sf.ca.us if you care to contact him
directly (I know he appreciates hearing from his listeners :).

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 01:27:36 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 01:17:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Need some help with ftp site...

Simply ask for the files with the .gz appelation, and soda will uncompress
them automatically...

        Brian

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 02:51:19 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 27 Jul 1993 02:36:03 -0700
Subject: Re:  terrence & tim

>Joseph Campbell makes all of the above look like a buncho toddlers.

well...at least Tim made the voyage himself, 'steado just writing 'bout it.

From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 03:55:39 1993
From: asah@ginsberg.cs.berkeley.edu
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 03:51:06 +28416
Subject: techno suggestions: SF/East Bay


I'm fairly new to the area, and am just beginning to hit the 'scene here,
  and am looking for club suggestions.  But wait!  I have some pretty
  specific ideas of a good time:

- purpose=dancing, not drugging, voguing, picking-up people, drinking, etc.
- music=techno.  Min. pop, no thrash/metal.  Not into slamming...
- should be large + interesting unto itself, apart from the bars, music,
  and people.  This means: lots of places to explore, interesting back
  rooms, etc.
- don't care how many large crowds are: being buried is great.  So is less-
  should be enough to support a lively dance (floor? stage? whatever)
- weird shit is fine, but dumb, contrived nonsense is stupid.  It's a fine
  line, I know, when clubs pay freaks + host The Art of the Runway, knowing
  full well that it's crap... but at least it's a good time, where I can't
  get into an empty warehouse, a wannabe euro-synth band, and 6 people
  dancing under 3 floorlights that toggle, but don't move, change color
  (can't be misconstrued as 'hypnotic', no matter how many drugs you've done)
- back in NY, I was a big fan of Limelight (20th+6th) - techno club in a
  huge, gothic church.  This was perfect: lots of freaks and strangeness,
  hoary masses of people dancing like lunatics, strange shows, lots of
  nooks'n'crannies to explore, with rooms within rooms within rooms, lost
  rooms with no lighting, a well-developed drug scene (not my bag, but added
  to the place, imho).  I liked it, even if it was considered a poser place
  by the real in-crowd, of which I couldn't/can't claim membership...
  The pews were removed, the stage cleared, and both were the dance-floor,
  with a continuous river of people going berzerk.  Above this scene were
  the strobe/laser/whatever lights that definitely left you dizzy, and
  always kept in time, adding to the music.  They installed a gangway and
  ledges above this entire scene, so if you went up, you'd overlook the
  dance floor from one floor up, with the original stained-glass windows
  behind you on the outside wall.  These paths snaked around the exterior
  of the entire main area, littered with bars and alcoves for three floors.
  The back rooms seemed to go on forever (I counted over 15 rooms, and
  several that were nothing more than excavations in the walls, where
  gatherings of 2 and 3 strangers would hang and smoke pot).  I still reel
  over the stuff Julie + I saw back there one night...

So there you have it.  If you can help me, I'd appr. it.

Thanks in advance,
-A.Sah'93                     ...Adam Sah...asah@cs.Berkeley.EDU...
                             It's not the voltage, it's the amperage.


From daemon@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 08:40:32 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 08:29:18 -0700
Subject: another test

For those of you just joining in, I am installing new mailing list software...
I know the first test message got to everyone expect the .edu addresses - 
this should make it to both.  There may be one or two more tests, so thanks for
being patient :)

        Brian

From daemon@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 09:05:17 1993
From: iconekt@uclink.berkeley.edu (Shamarchy Time Is Now)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 08:52:42 -0700
Subject: test


a test from an outsider... to see if a non-member can post...

	Brian

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 09:33:39 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 09:17:03 -0700
Subject: MAJORDOMO conquering the world - details at 11

        Okay, it seems to be working fine....

        I installed a new listserv-like perl package on soda called 
Majordomo (revision 1.54, 1993/05/07, written by D. Brent Chapman, 
brent@GreatCircle.com), which should make my life a lot easier...
anyways, it's very user-friendly, so I won't go into to much explaining.
Basically iof you want to be added or dropped or anything, send mail
to the same address, sfraves-request@sfraves.stanford.edu, and it'll
explain everything.  The really nice thing is that the mailer will
parse for those annoying s-u-b-s-c-r-i-b-e and u-n-s-u-b-s-c-r-i-b-e
words in mail messages and forward them just to me... and it should
be smart enough to prevent non-list-members from posting though it
looks like that needs work... anyways, you should notice no difference,
other than I'll have more free time to throw parties :)  If it does 
totally barf or if your mail to sfraves starts bouncing, please be
patient, I'm working on it.  Also, sfraves-calendar will soon be moved
here, too, and eventually the FTP site....

	Brian


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 09:51:42 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 09:38:54 -0700
Subject: Re: MAJORDOMO conquering the world - details at 11

>        I installed a new listserv-like perl package on soda called 

er, make that, on techno.stanford.edu.... *sigh*....

        Brian

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 10:18:18 1993
From: dz5401a@palestrina.anderson-lab.american.edu (Douglas Zimmerman)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 13:06:52 EDT
Subject: a ride from San Jose 8/1


Hi sfravers,

  i had a small plea to ask:

i'm getting into the bay area next sunday at around 11:45 a.m.
next Sunday August 1st, and i was wondering if i could bum a 
ride off someone from San Jose to San Francisco?
  of course this would cover all expenses ++ that would be incurred
on the trip

if anyone can help please e-mail me back at my address
or call (203) 231-2359

thanks

doug ))))) lOVE fOllOWS tHE Rave (((((
dz5401a@palestrina.anderson-lab.american.edu

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 10:46:38 1993
From: "Barry Alexander" <barryale@symantec.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 10:27:24 pst
Subject: Re[2]: terrence & tim



    regarding terrence mckenna, you have to remember that the realm he traverses
    (the phenethylamine induced consciousness) often sounds crazy to "normal"
    everyday conscious minds. when was the last time your dreams made perfect
    logical sense?  it doesn't mean that dreams/alterted consciousnesses don't
    have any information value - the information is presented in condensed
    symbols and metaphors. if you view such information in the wrong context
    it can seem "crazy."
        as far as et's connection with psilocibyn, jose arguellas (sp) book
    "the mayan factor" gives some supporting arguments for this.  but then
    again jose's stuff is pretty out there too.

    barry

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 10:55:52 1993
From: zane@genesis.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 11:58:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: I'm moving to Cal/Berkeley!!

Hello sfravers!
	I'll be moving to Cal Real Soon Now, as I'll be a freshman at
Cal/berkeley this fall. I've never been to a rave you see, and I'm
*really* looking forward to making it to a wonderful sf-area rave when
I arrive.
	I'll be staying in Los Gatos (south of San Jose) with a friend
until August 15th, and given that this friend is busy with a job and
the like, I was wondering if any south bay area sfraver would be
willing to help me figure out the area and maybe a wonderful little rave?
	Seeya soon!!!!

	(I'm looking forward to getting out of middle-class suburbia.)

-- 
| Sameer Parekh-zane@genesis.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@genesis.MCS.COM |
| Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more |
| "Be God" - Me __ "Specialization is for Insects" - Robert A. Heinlein ____/

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 10:59:24 1993
From: megatest!kermit!preiter@uu2.psi.com (Pete Reiter)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 10:40:27 PDT
Subject: visuals

Does anyone know of a source for trippy slides and color wheels? I'm trying
to make my living room a bit more interesting.

						Pete

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 11:23:48 1993
From: Geoff White <geoffw@igc.apc.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 11:05:33 PDT
Subject: nexsys.net is down

nexsys.net died last night.
It is hopefully being repaired, today or tomorrow
please don't send me any mail there until further notice.
If you need to e-mail me used geoffw@igc.org or geoffw@carlyle.com

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 14:08:47 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 17:02:45 EDT
Subject: Knee is going to be fine. Hurray!

Minor damage to the gliding surface inside the knee. I'll do some leg
lifts, take it easy for a while, and it'll be fine. Apparently if you
do serious damage to your knee, it _hurts_. This didn't.

Looking forward to some more serious boogieing :)

Sean

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 14:55:31 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 14:46:25 -0700
Subject: Narnia II

The best San Diego event of 1992 (URB Magazine), regarded as the most
positive and spiritual of the San Diego raves, reappears next month
as Narnia II, the Second Cronicle.  The promoters have been planning
this event for the entire year and we Sandy Eggo ravers are anticipating
this to be the best event of 1993.  Everyone in the local scene here
has been gearing up for the last month, and last week the posters
appeared with the DJ lineup and the phone numbers (which turn on the
beginning of August).  The DJ list includes Jeno, Garth, Mark E. Quark,
Doc Martin, Bones, Daemon, Jon Bishop, Yagi, Stephano, Joey Jimenez,
Thomas, Matz, Raja, Jeff Scott, AND Super DJ Dmitri of Deelight!  The
posters, which remind me of 60's San Francisco psychadelic era style
posters, also say that there will be Tribal Drummers, Communication Art
(Dr. S Goodenough, Taz, Tyrone, Rev. Powers) Living Poetry (Shelly Bomb,
Nicholas, Slim Wizard, Bat Lady, Kien Lieu) and other surprises.

If anyone is interested E-mail me maybe we can do a  carpool or a SFRavers
Caravan to Sandy Eggo. Or you can get a hold of me, Hoss (no I am not a
Cartwright nor am I named so for my size), @ 209-669-3601.

Save the planet and the Ravedom............

Whislboy.[D[D[D
  
Event: Narnia II
[A[ADDDDDDDDdddD

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 15:00:51 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 14:50:01 -0700
Subject: Narnia II



Event:     NARNIA II
Date:      August 28th, 1993
Location:  San Diego, California (10 min. from Del Mar)
Promoter:  Global Underworld Network

The best San Diego event of 1992 (URB Magazine), regarded as the most
positive and spiritual of the San Diego raves, reappears next month
as Narnia II, the Second Cronicle.  The promoters have been planning
this event for the entire year and we Sandy Eggo ravers are anticipating
this to be the best event of 1993.  Everyone in the local scene here
has been gearing up for the last month, and last week the posters
appeared with the DJ lineup and the phone numbers (which turn on the
beginning of August).  The DJ list includes Jeno, Garth, Mark E. Quark,
Doc Martin, Bones, Daemon, Jon Bishop, Yagi, Stephano, Joey Jimenez,
Thomas, Matz, Raja, Jeff Scott, AND Super DJ Dmitri of Deelight!  The
posters, which remind me of 60's San Francisco psychadelic era style
posters, also say that there will be Tribal Drummers, Communication Art
(Dr. S Goodenough, Taz, Tyrone, Rev. Powers) Living Poetry (Shelly Bomb,
Nicholas, Slim Wizard, Bat Lady, Kien Lieu) and other surprises.

If anyone is interested E-mail me maybe we can do a  carpool or a SFRavers
Caravan to Sandy Eggo. Or you can get a hold of me, Hoss (no I am not a
Cartwright nor am I named so for my size), @ 209-669-3601.

Save the planet and the Ravedom............

Whislboy.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 15:34:25 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 15:24:52 PDT
Subject: ???

Narnia was wonderful.
it was the most spiritual event i have ever gone to
the little faerie hiding on the mushroom on the flier
seemed to have a great significance on the magic
that made the event happen as it did

what made the event happen that way?
well, personally i dont think it was the amount of planning,
the DJ's, the people there, or anything but just a sense
of good karma that used the people who were there
and caused them to create magic

can it be repeated?

ABSOLUTELY!

will Narnia II be that event??

well, just think about it, everyone and their sister thinks that Narnia II
is going to go off

it probably will be crowded adn fun and have tons of good music
i'll probably go just to hang out with the homies,
but honestly... whether or not the magic will be there will
depend on what is meant to happen
and it cant be planned...

i love my sisters and brothers down in san diego,
last summer was one that really changed a lot of my out looks on life
because of narnia and everything else it led me to

but dont expect miracles to happen, they're never there when you look for them
you can just open yourself up and be ready for them when they do

 ,
dana

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 15:43:33 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 16:28:31 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Narnia

I heard about this a month or so ago from a local shop owner and it sounded
rather suspect.  First off, for it being "the greatest event of the year", the
net was awfully silent about it.  Second, they were encouraging the shop owner
to rent a bus to cart everyone down from Salt Lake, but with no discount on
the ticket prices.

The DJ list is impressive, but it sounds like just another attempt at
Ravestock.  Does anyone know the promoters?  Did anyone go last year?

What is going on with Universe?

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 16:10:56 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 16:06:05 -0700
Subject: Universe In S.F.??


As far as Universe:

 Saturday 18th September 1993 in good old S.F..

USA info line Tel: 0338 405408 36p per minute

or E-mail Miles at "miles.pearce@bristol.ac.uk"

Whislboy.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 16:30:51 1993
From: Bill Watson Jr. 485-3569 <wxw@ncrtory.torreypinesca.ncr.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 16:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: EVENT: Narnia II

The legendary event of 1992 returns...

Event:     NARNIA II
Date:      August 28th, 1993
Location:  San Diego, California (10 min. from Del Mar)
Promoter:  Global Underworld Network

The best San Diego event of 1992 (URB Magazine), regarded as the most 
positive and spiritual of the San Diego raves, reappears next month 
as Narnia II, the Second Cronicle.  The promoters have been planning 
this event for the entire year and we Sandy Eggo ravers are anticipating 
this to be the best event of 1993.  Everyone in the local scene here 
has been gearing up for the last month, and last week the posters 
appeared with the DJ lineup and the phone numbers (which turn on the 
beginning of August).  The DJ list includes Jeno, Garth, Mark E. Quark, 
Doc Martin, Bones, Daemon, Jon Bishop, Yagi, Stephano, Joey Jimenez, 
Thomas, Matz, Raja, Jeff Scott, AND Super DJ Dmitri of Deelight!  The 
posters, which remind me of 60's San Francisco psychadelic era style 
posters, also say that there will be Tribal Drummers, Communication Art 
(Dr. S Goodenough, Taz, Tyrone, Rev. Powers) Living Poetry (Shelly Bomb, 
Nicholas, Slim Wizard, Bat Lady, Kien Lieu) and other surprises.  

Phone Numbers:  San Diego:      619-685-7827 & 619-685-7828
                Orange County:  714-451-4486
                Long Beach:     310-535-1713
                Los Angeles:    213-683-3849 
                Pasadena:       818-568-7930
                Bakersfield:    805-635-8064
                San Francisco:  415-974-9927


See you there.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=            =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
)                         (     ##     )                             (
)  Bill Watson Jr.        (    ####    )  wxw@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com  (
)  NCR - E.S.C            (    ####    )  Compuserve     76506,1244  (
)  16550 West Bernardo Dr (   ######   )                             (
)  San Diego, CA  92127   (     ||     )  (619) 485-3569 (Work)      (
)                         (    \__/    )                             (
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=            =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 16:35:00 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 16:30:09 -0700
Subject: E-mail News Flash


This is what I received in my E-mail check it out:


STUDENTS: GRADUATING ? KEEP YOUR

INTERNET ACCES S

MAIL, NEWS, FTP, TELNET, IRC

Just because you're leaving school you don't have to leave
your Intemet access behind ! Express Acceis, the online
communications service from Digital Express Group,
provides public access to the Internet for as little as $15.00
per month ! It is now possible to have an address on the
Internet without being associated with a school, a large
company, or the Govemment.

Express Access can give you the Intemet mail address that
you need to do business, keep track of friends, and use the
resources of the Intemet community. (A great resource for
those who are job hunting !) Use the Intemet to cut your
phone bills keeping in touch with friends and family in other
states or countries. Even if you have an a net account at
work now, with Express Access your friends can get
accounts and join you in mail and newsgroup access. If you
have access but privacy is an issue, Express Access can give
you a place for personal mail and newsgroup access.

Express Access offers Telnet to connect to other computers
worldwide, FTP (File Transfer Protocol) to transfer text or program
files from hundreds of archives around the world, IRC (Internet Relay
Chat) to converse with people worldwide in a variety of languages,
Archie and WAIS to search remote data bases and much more !
For a monthly subscription fee of $15 you get an hour's connect time
each day of the month, up to 2 megabytes of disk storage, access to
electronic mail and all the Usenet newsgroups you want. Internet
Services accounts are $25 per month and include Telnet, FTP, and IRC
along with news and mail. Extra connect time is only $1.00 per hour
and is FREE during off-peak hours. (3 am to 3 pm) Additional disk
storage is available at any time for lOc per megabyte per day.

I FOR MORE INFO OR AN ACCOUNT APPLICATION

You may login to our system and apply for an account or download
more information and an account application.

Our modem number is: (714) 377-9784 (settings 8, n, 1)

Login as "new" and select your choice from the menu. If you have a
major credit catd, you can obtain an account almost immediately! Just
select "instant account" from the menu.

If you're already on the net, contact us at info(aorange.digex.net. Send
your mailing address if you'd like the information mailed to you,
otherwise we'll respond via email, or Telnet to orange.digex.net and
login as "new".

You may also call for information at (800) 546-2010

Technica! Data: Espress Access accounts are on Sun 3 and 4 servers
running Sunos 3.5. Modems support V.32/V.42 bis MNP 5 and 6, 300
to 14.4 K bps. Software includes rn, trn, nn, Elm, pine, rmail,
x/y/zmodemprotocols and Kermit, standard UNIX utilities and GNU
Emacs.

Whislboy.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 17:26:01 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 17:16:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: "House Movement Cookbook"

hiya all (iam alive and well in sf...) hey i had a thought why don't we
make the cookbook and sell it so we can pay for ggpark permitts??? just a
thougt..btw..i went to unity...owowowowoowowowowoow it was great..i caught
a serious vibe around 5-6 am....and the lasers were
incredible..partyon...susie (:



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 18:40:35 1993
From: ftc@netcom.com (Entropy Tech.)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 18:36:49 PDT
Subject: Re: E-mail News Flash.. Yeah RIGHT

> For a monthly subscription fee of $15 you get an hour's connect time
> each day of the month, up to 2 megabytes of disk storage, access to
> electronic mail and all the Usenet newsgroups you want. Internet
> Services accounts are $25 per month and include Telnet, FTP, and IRC
> along with news and mail. Extra connect time is only $1.00 per hour
> and is FREE during off-peak hours. (3 am to 3 pm) Additional disk
> storage is available at any time for lOc per megabyte per day.
> 

What is this crap ? $15 for 1 hour a day ? Look, I dont mean to FLAME, but
I get alot berrter deal for $19.50 a month, and I get all the above plus
5 megs storage. Pay extra for ftp and wais ? Hahahahaha.

I dont mean to be this way, but Shit folks, no matter how you turn this 
dog, it is NOT rave related, nor even close by a longshot. This is not 
the make-a-quick-buck mailing list.

Word to the wise .. shop around, there are better deals than this one.

Accepting the -10 points, 
	- Delchi

-- 
.............................................................................
.  |\ M A L G A M A T E D      .  Amalgamated Angst...                      .
.  | \         |\              .     IRC Addict....                         .
.  |  \        | \   N G S T   .      Entropy Tech.....                     .
.  |___\       |  \            .       Quaker Instant Flaming Reality ...   .
.  |    \      |___\           .                                            .
.  |     \     |    \          .  " You dont know anything about science    .
.  |      \    |     \         .      cap'n " -- Doc Tesla                  .
.              |      \        .                                            .
.                              .    FTC@NETCOM.COM                          .
.............................................................................

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 19:49:01 1993
From: Harry Duran <hduran@umdnj.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 22:40:02 -0500 (EDT)
Subject: Re: terrence mckenna

> 
> I notice many people cite Terrence Mckenna for his speculations on rave 
> culture and his presumed "archaic revival."  
for fuller info read the paper "new maps of hyperspace" on ftp soda.berk..etc.in sfraves files.

> Does anybody take Terrence McKenna seriously?
>
IMHO TM has a great deal of relevance to the developing dialog re:shamanic revival in the current technological milieu. He speaks from experience, and has a
voice other than the diaphonous new-agey platitudinal crystal gazers of the 80s.Hes legit IMHO. To speak from the perspective of using tryptamine psychedelics
as instruments for mapping the psyche and its projections in the REAL/UNREAL
sheds light on an altogether suppressed technology. The technology of
 consciousness raising has repeatedly been seized by churches, governments,
 and social institutions since the neolithic. Now, given the growing chaos and
 anarchy in society, it is surfacing again but this time with more cultural
infrastructure to promote its spread outside closed societies and nomadic
tribes.

TM give voice to this as a real possibility for our time.

> His recent article in MONDO 2000 seems to strain some of his validity.
>
Some of his factual material may be erroneous, but hes pretty on the money
re: his experiences and their interpretation. Much of this is not relevant
to the ego centered mind which propels itself through the superficialities 
of life. He speaks to the underlying bloopy 303 track of consciousness 
which acts as the carrier wave for even your perceived materiality of this post.
A track that makes the real vs unreal dichotomy irrelevant.
 
> Ufo's? really, what's the importance?
>
He addresses the possibility that consciousnesses manifests in forms and
 dimensions other than materiality via time/space.
 That there are messages which project in the psyche space of which your mind is a part.
That your mind may have no more inherent reality than the transience of a lazer flickering on a screen
That it may be possible to experience the generator of the laser, and in so doing transcend what has been heretofore been regarded as speculation by some, worshipped as god by others, and experience a state which meta projects your experience in waking, dreaming life and death.
A state which makes such dichotomies, irrelevant.
He speaks of the possibility of contact with the generator of this beam, and in so doing contact other emanations from this non-space,place,untime.
Thus given what our daily life is the terminology to describe such a totally
shattering and alien experience is nonexistent. Hence, UFOs seem to crop
up a lot. Mystics have spoken for centuries of gods, angels, fairies, demons. In our era, UFOs ....

It all sounds pretty flakey huh :)
 
> this is somewhat rave related but I also must satiate my curiousity,
> 
The use of dancing and physiologically trance inducing rhythmic music is an ancient technique. To see the revival of this and a conjunct use of empathogens,
telepathogens, and powersubstances other than toxic alcohol is one way in which "rave culture" speakes to his term "archaic revival".

yes terrence mckenna is serious, he articulates a spirituality based on a
meta- gnostic experience, not the dilute rantings of ironage skygods recorded
in kingjames english.

the rave as one venue for this exploration is just one of many fine 
possible ways of modern spiritual transformation.   :)


Enough of my long winded opinionated babble

Peace , Love, Trance :)

Harry


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 20:59:44 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 20:51:26 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail News Flash


For those of you looking for dial-up internet access, also consider
"Netcom On-Line Communications", which does all the things that 
"Express Access" does, but for $17.50/mo w/ no connect-time charges,
5Mb disk space, and full internet access. Basically, a far better deal
(IMHO) than the service provider info posted by Hoss Sarbaz.

Call 408 554-8649 for details .. they have local dial-up numbers all
over California (SF, SJ, Irvine, LA, etc), plus Seattle, Dallas,
Portland. I'm not affiliated w/ netcom in any way other than a mostly
satisfied customer. 

Note that Netcom is a system for "unix weenies" -- if you're not very
computer-literate you'll be better served by Compuserve, Portal, or
some other on-line service that provides some kind of front-end to
insulate you from the rough-and-ready-real-man's domain of the unix
shell, emacs, SLIP, or Xwindows.... :-) :-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Jul 27 23:31:48 1993
From: chinacat@netcom.com (J. Petersen)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 22:37:37 PDT
Subject: Unity!

Well, Unity was my first rave experience, and I have to say it was
truly wonderful. Julie (jp@darkstar.com) told me it would be great,
and she was right. It outdid my highest expectations. When the
lights went up and the music stopped, with the sun steaming in the
doors, I felt truly moved; like I had experienced *something*...
and all this with no chemical additives!

Now a request: I never picked up a Unity flyer... and now I wish
I had one to hold onto as a momento (yes, I'm the kind of guy who
still has a ticket stub from every Dead show I've attended).

Does anyone out there have a Unity flyer they won't be needing
anymore? Drop me a line and you'll make me very happy!

Looking forward to more of the same...

-- 
Jim Petersen
chinacat@netcom.com


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 02:38:36 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 01:44:28 -0700
Subject: Programmers among us..neat project..

If any programmers among us are interested in helping design database software to
help get Calif legislative info on the net..theres info available for anmon-ftp
on kumr.lns.com  or e-mail me for a file on such.
-Chris.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 04:20:56 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Benjamin P. Wing)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 03:19:12 -0700
Subject: Re: East Bay picnic, SFR pre-YSH dinner, and pre-FMR sunday bbq

Yes, this is the same ol' Ben Wing; I just keep migrating, that's all.

In article <9307270144.AA11101@soda.berkeley.edu> Brian writes:
|
|2)  Pre-YSH dinner - a couple people have suggested this idea.  Dinner around 
|8pm, with a caravan to Your Sisters' House afterward.  I would suggest Phu
|Ket, though if a lot of people show up maybe a self-serve place (like 
|Chabella's on Haight) would be best.  ANyone know of a self-serve Thai 
|place in SF?
|

Hmm, last time I went to Phuket, all the dishes were incendiary hot to the
point of being inedible ...  now I've been to lots of Thai restaurants,
and this was absolutely the hottest I've ever been to ...

(but I'm up for the dinner in any case)

ben


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 06:16:30 1993
From: JOSEPH P. BAGDONAS <YUSEF@macc.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 07:04 CDT
Subject: veg.ravers to Raveland?

	Any vegetarian ravers going to  Raveland in D.C. on Aug.7? If so, then
let's meet up to hit the restaurants. My address is yusef@macc.wisc.edu. Hope
to hear from you!
 

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 08:04:13 1993
From: drlewi1@srv.pacbell.com (Dave Lewis)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 07:02:19 PDT
Subject: Re: Programmers among us..neat project..

Hey Chris,

Ya, I'm interested in the Cal Leg info access stuff.  I'm a member of
CPSR (computer professionals for social responsibility) and as such
have been following the Bowen bill (to make leg info avail in
electronic form) pretty closely.  What's the latest?  What's the
project?  I understand part of the problem (for those of us wanting
internet/cheap access) is that the legislators don't believe that
people will donate time to write programs to make the legislative info
ready for human consumption.  (of course the major/real problem is that
the Legislative Analyst, 1) runs the system where bills are put online,
2) makes a significant amount of off-budget expense money by selling
info to commercial providers, 3) that he and others in Sacto are in bed
with the two commercial providers of online legislative info delivery,
and 4) is the one who writes the analyses of introduced bills which are
used by legislators to understand a bills implications - it's no wonder
he slammed Bowen's bill in its analysis).  Of course we know better.
(or are you talking about a for-pay project?).  Is that what your post
is about?

I ftp'd to kumr.lns.com but couldn't find the related stuff.

Wanna know what rave-effecting bills are coming down?  Get tuned in!

Dave : programmer, poet (Ya, Mander said it better), humorist

drlewi1@pacbell.com

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 08:05:39 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 17:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: susie

well my temp phone number is 415 661 1544 X25 but you can call my house t
415 334 8421...partyon..susie (:



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 08:53:21 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 8:44:23 PDT
Subject: Re: East Bay picnic, SFR pre-YSH dinner, and pre-FMR sunday bbq

Benjamin P. Wing sez:
> 
> Yes, this is the same ol' Ben Wing; I just keep migrating, that's all.
> 
> In article <9307270144.AA11101@soda.berkeley.edu> Brian writes:
> |
> |2)  Pre-YSH dinner - a couple people have suggested this idea.  Dinner around 
> |8pm, with a caravan to Your Sisters' House afterward.  I would suggest Phu
> |Ket, though if a lot of people show up maybe a self-serve place (like 
> |Chabella's on Haight) would be best.  ANyone know of a self-serve Thai 
> |place in SF?
> |
> 
> Hmm, last time I went to Phuket, all the dishes were incendiary hot to the
> point of being inedible ...  now I've been to lots of Thai restaurants,
> and this was absolutely the hottest I've ever been to ...
> 
> (but I'm up for the dinner in any case)
> 
> ben
> 
> 


Arg!  Phuket is my favorite! :-)  Then again, my tastes run towards
the spicy side.

Thep Phanom is good (but expensive), and since there are probably more
Thai restaurants in this city than Burger Kings, an alternate
shouldn't be a problem.

Where is YSH this week?

-H-



-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
		Love the music... it will love you back.
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 10:51:03 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 13:40:55 EDT
Subject: Any beach events coming up?

I am really wanting a beach event. Know of any plans for one?

Sean

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 10:55:07 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 10:44:35 -0700
Subject: directions to the east bay lunch


Ack, sorry this is so late.... anyways, it'll be at the Faculty Glade on
UC Berkeley campus - directions:

Find College avenue in Berkeley, and take it all the way north to Bancroft
(College is parallel to telegraph and two blocks to the east).  At the
north corner of college and bancroft is a plaza, and a walkway to the right -
follow that walkway through another plaza, and you'll see a big grassy area
on a slope - that'll be us.  If someone could bring music that would be 
great; at least plan on being food.  Again, this is just a picnic, just a
chance to chill and talk to friends old and new.  No big sound system,
no lasers (but bring them if you want :) no big shebang, just us east bay
sfravers (and some east coast people, too!)  Anyways, I guess we'll be there
from noon until 1 or so, so.... see you there!

        Brian

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 15:34:20 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 15:20:47 PDT
Subject: Penelope's Web


Penelope's Web is DEFINITELY HAPPENING.

I'm really excited about this!

A few last minute details: if anyone has a large pickup or flatbed
truck, we need a few porta-potties moved up to the site on Saturday
(and back down on Sunday).

Everything else is pretty much taken care of... and I hope to see you
there!  The festivities will begin at 6 PM this Saturday, if you want
to pitch a tent, you should plan on arriving around 3 PM.  The event
will end at 6 PM Sunday.  The site is a 3 hour drive north of SF ---
and from all accounts, it's beautiful and well worth the drive.
Totally 100% private land.

Info line: 415-765-7671

Yowsa!
Bob


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 15:48:05 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 15:38:23 -0700
Subject: I Was Flamed

Well, I sent something to inform people, but I got flamed because 

".......it is NOT rave related, nor even close by a longshot. This is not
the make-a-quick-buck mailing list."

My intensions were not to make $$$ quick nor was it to advertise. I just thought t
some people were not aware (and I know new comers are not) of such options.

Besides I don't know who sent it to me. But as someone pointed out

".......Word to the wise .. shop around, there are better deals than this one."

SEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAA............Whislboy.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 18:33:24 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 18:20:05 PDT
Subject: Technology Neutral? (Was Re: What's Coming Down)

> Computers _can_ enhance interpersonal interactions in a classroom,
> and replace or enhance traditional information sources.  I've seen
> demonstrations of that being done effectively.  That it`s not widespread
> yet is the fault of numerous complex factors, nothing inherent in the
> medium.

Yes, and nuclear missiles can be used to vaporize incoming asteroids,
but there is a larger incentive to use them for weapons.  Pistols can
be used for self-defense, but are much more likely to be used in a murder
or suicide. (I'm not advocating outlawing them, I'm just making a point.)
Sure, they _can_ be used for good, but the greed and power motivation
to use them for Bad Things will always be greater than your or my
desire to do Fun Things.  Unless things change drastically -- but they
haven't, yet.  (Give us time.)

Technology apologists always have to conjure up visions of how good
everything could be if only people weren't selfish.  These are the
same propaganda techniques used by the large corporations pushing
the technology.  Meanwhile, they win and we mostly lose.  All I have to
do is point to reality.

> >The Blue Meanies (tm) will ALWAYS be well ahead of you with their technology.
> >While you (wet) dream of pulling up 3D videos from remote databases of how
> >a jet works, the NSA, TRW, etc. pull up your credit and job history,
> >spending habits, and lifestyle choices, planning their domination
> >accordingly.  While we dream of racing tanks on Mars, they train better
> >and faster pilots to kill real people with real guns.
> 
> ...and PeaceNet is working on faster ways to communicate among activists
> to encourage peace and counter war, and tens of thousands of people
> used email to whitehouse.gov to let the president know what was on
> their mind each _day_ for the last month.  

Which has more impact on the way you and I must live?  The first, by a
factor of about 1000 or so.  This is my point.

> >Do you remember being a kid?  I remember elaborate expeditions down local
> >ravines that lasted all afternoon, searching for fossils, dead things,
> >and rich people's backyards near the lake.  I am convinced that becoming
> >old causes one to become stupid and assume that kids are too.  They're
> >not stupid, just inexperienced.  We don't even learn from our experiences
> >and have the gall to call them smarts.  I talked with a 12-year old outside
> >my house for about an hour.  He had a lot to teach me about his reality
> >and his life.
> 
> I still do elaborate expeditions out in the woods when I can,
> spend time hanging out in trees, build sand castles on the beach,
> etc.  I also locate information by wais, ftp, Usenet, and dozens
> of mailing lists.

The point was to challenge your assertion that kids are incapable of
formulating and achieving complex goals.

> >are _predetermined_ by their nature.  Television is inherently 
> >authoritarian because it concentrates the dissemination of information
> >in one central authority and offers no feedback mechanism by which we can
> >dispute it.
> 
> Public-access cable demonstrates that this isn't true;
> for mass market concerns, maybe not, but everyone can have
> access if they really want it badly.

How many people watch public access versus the four networks and MTV?
1:1000?  1:100,000?  Less?

> and things get changed.  TV shows live and die on ratings,
> which are your feedback mechanism.

I'm talking about the immediate feedback of a discussion with people
versus the forced passivity of watching TV.  With so many of your senses
being bombarded, you don't have time to think critically without losing
information from the input stream.  At least reading gives you time to
think about what's being said and eliminate the visual cues for 
sincerity, helplessness, power, etc. that are exploited so well in
advertisements and politics.

Besides, just because some people will keep snorting coke until they
die doesn't mean coke is good.
> 
> >That's what the technology sellers tell us -- remember the 1940 World's
> >Fair?  Somehow it never happens -- except for the people atop the heap,
> >who have worked so hard to get there they have forgotten why they wanted
> >the leisure in the first place.  All the labor-saving devices invented
> >have not saved one bit of labor; they just shove it off onto someone
> >else, usually the underpaid illegal aliens or foreigners who built
> >your toy.
> 
> That's a remarkably ignorant view.

In what way?  We are still working well over 40 hours a week when you 
include commmute time, shopping, and other activities made necessary
by a consumer society.  What did I say that makes my statement "ignorant"?

> >The misuse of computers is inherent in their existence.
> 
> That's a remarkably OFFENSIVE view.

Yes, but it also has truth in it.  That's why I said what I said.
I think the assertion that technology is neutral is an incredibly NAIVE
view.  Sure, its use is context-dependent, but that doesn't mean we
can ignore the context and posit a better one in which everything
works out right.

> >"Technology is neutral, it's just the people using it who are bad"
> >is a dear illusion to those of us accustomed to it and fearful that
> >it might be taken away.  Unfortunately, the assumption is false.
> 
> You can cringe from technology you see as desecrating your old
> world if you want to; I'm going to go forward using it to enhance,
> expand, and multiply my worlds.  I know I can both have technology
> and the spiritual, real world and am going to use and enjoy both
> of them, together, synergistically if possible.  You can argue
> all day and night that it's impossible, but it doesn't matter;
> you can't deny what I'm doing is possible.

Yes, it is: I simply maintain that the misuses far outweigh the
uses, and any evaluation of technology should weigh these issues 
carefully before we decide to accept it into our culture.

// g


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 18:58:47 1993
From: doom@banneker.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 17:51:58 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail News Flash 


Yeah, did you notice the dial-up number for that service was
a (713)?  Why would anyone bother to post that to sfraves? 
I already sent the guy a note mentioning netcom...


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Wed Jul 28 23:40:04 1993
From: Scott Everett Swiger <scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 23:20:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: MESS #4


Greetings!

Mother Earth Sound System will be gathering Friday, July 30 in the
vicinity of Candlestick Park for a late evening ritual of music and dance
under the stars.

DJs Brad, Scottie, Stonie and guests

Juice, fruit, fresh air and a mag-nif-e-cent view

From around midnightish until when we all get tired/busted/run out of
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???

Location WILL be announced Thursday (sorry we're so tardy, but when you're
without a car things take a lot longer to get done :), OR grab us at YSH
tomorrow and harass us, OR call us (Scottie at (510) 549-6253) and nag us,
OR...if worst comes to worst...Friday nite the location will be on our
answering machines.

Respect,

			s   c   o   t   t   i   e
			MOTHER EARTH SOUND SYSTEM
			>>>respect your mother<<<


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 03:53:52 1993
From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 10:28:49 GMT
Subject: Re: techno suggestions: SF/East Bay

Adam,

Since I'm a Bristolian in the UK, I can't tell you much about SF except that
you are in for a rather good-time. I know people who live there and most
of the ravers on sfraves are really very nice, helpful individuals. Arrive
and let the adventure begin. Is everybody in? The Ceremony is about to......

Miles


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 06:14:12 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 6:08:31 PDT
Subject: South Bay Lunch / Info Request


 
 Hello SFRavers!
 
 1. INFO REQUEST: Does anyone have Elizabeth Medel's phone number? I wanted
    to check on how her build-a-raver project is going :-) .
 
 
 2. Southbay SFR Lunch Reminder
 
 
 Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
 today's SFR Lunch ...
 
 When: Thursday, July 29st 
 Time: 12.00 noon
 Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto
 
 Directions:
 
 * From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
 
 * Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
   (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)
 
 * Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (past apartment complexes on right)
   
 * You will see the park on your right hand side. Park in the first
   carpark to your right.
 
 * We'll meet on the grassy knoll, under the trees behind the backstop.
 
 Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!
 
 				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com    )
 
 


 

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 10:40:29 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (leah)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 10:33:38 -0700
Subject: bbq



ok!  the bbq will be at my place in berkeley on sunday at 6pm.  we will
have a grill (thanks steve!!) and I have received offers of great bbq
delicacies from some visiting nw ravers... what we do need are other 
dishes, desserts, drinks, plates, and whatever else anyone deems
necessary.  if you have a certain specialty, mail me and tell me what
it is.  but please! if you want to bring say, a dessert, but know that
a lot of people might want to bring the same dessert... think of something
else as well so that we can have a good variation.  just mail me suggestions
and possibilities and I can make a list of what we'll have and see where
we need to add on...

always, leah



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 10:58:08 1993
From: "Dana WATANABE" <DWATANAB@uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 10:51:11 PDT
Subject: Sleepless in San Francisco

no, im not planning on falling in love with someone on the radio
but i am planning on being in SF from sunday to wednesday
maybe longer if i cant find a ride back

right now, i've got all of sunday nite planned out
and sometime i need to run by Primal Urge
well actually thats more like stop in and hang aroudn for awhile
but aside from that i dont really have anything to do

so someone be creative and entertain me for a few days :)

but seriously... if anyone wants to hang out or do wahtever
just send me mail..

 ,
dana

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 11:20:12 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 11:16:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Technology Neutral? (Was Re: What's Coming Down)

At  6:20 PM 7/28/93 -0700, Spiral Death Trap wrote:

This is probably a bad one to jump into, but...

>> >The Blue Meanies (tm) will ALWAYS be well ahead of you with their
>>technology.
>> >While you (wet) dream of pulling up 3D videos from remote databases of how
>> >a jet works, the NSA, TRW, etc. pull up your credit and job history,
>> >spending habits, and lifestyle choices, planning their domination
>> >accordingly.  While we dream of racing tanks on Mars, they train better
>> >and faster pilots to kill real people with real guns.
>> 
>> ...and PeaceNet is working on faster ways to communicate among activists
>> to encourage peace and counter war, and tens of thousands of people
>> used email to whitehouse.gov to let the president know what was on
>> their mind each _day_ for the last month.  
>
>Which has more impact on the way you and I must live?  The first, by a
>factor of about 1000 or so.  This is my point.

My own model on this debate is that it is irrelevent to try to decide what
is good and bad.  Tech doesn't care what my opinion is.  ('because I could
not stop for technology, it kindly stopped for me...':)  The most useful
thing about technology is that unlike most other things (the political
process in the US comes to mind here), technology is its own worst enemy in
terms of applications.
MILNet may be the reason the internet exists, and it processes a couple of
megabytes of anti gov/military/whatever every day.  Granted, not in equal
proportions, but that cannot be overlooked.

>> >are _predetermined_ by their nature.  Television is inherently 
>> >authoritarian because it concentrates the dissemination of information
>> >in one central authority and offers no feedback mechanism by which we can
>> >dispute it.
>> 
>> Public-access cable demonstrates that this isn't true;
>> for mass market concerns, maybe not, but everyone can have
>> access if they really want it badly.

I'm sorry- tell that to the 20% of the population that can barely keep
aflaotfinancially, or the other 6% that cannot at all.  I had this argument
on alt.cyberpunk (I know, I know) in the form of everyone could have access
to the internet if they want it...  that is simple bullshit/middleclass
guilt.

>How many people watch public access versus the four networks and MTV?
>1:1000?  1:100,000?  Less?
>
>> and things get changed.  TV shows live and die on ratings,
>> which are your feedback mechanism.

>> >That's what the technology sellers tell us -- remember the 1940 World's
>> >Fair?  Somehow it never happens -- except for the people atop the heap,

no- were you there?  Cool!  I'd kill for pictures.

>> >who have worked so hard to get there they have forgotten why they wanted
>> >the leisure in the first place.  All the labor-saving devices invented
>> >have not saved one bit of labor; they just shove it off onto someone
>> >else, usually the underpaid illegal aliens or foreigners who built
>> >your toy.
>> 
>> That's a remarkably ignorant view.
>

Really?  I will give that it saves _some_ people labor- by  putting them
out of work.  I read a while back in one of the Newsweek clones that
comanies are spending roughly 3X the money the spend on recruiting on
automating factories, thereby creating a situation in which they can OWN
both material and labor- forcing most workers completely out of the
picture.  And you think this is a good idea?  Tell me automated factories
will make everyones life better...

>> >The misuse of computers is inherent in their existence.
>> 
>> That's a remarkably OFFENSIVE view.
>
>Yes, but it also has truth in it.  That's why I said what I said.
>I think the assertion that technology is neutral is an incredibly NAIVE
>view.  Sure, its use is context-dependent, but that doesn't mean we
>can ignore the context and posit a better one in which everything
>works out right.

I must agree.  Kind of like poison- you have to think a while before you
can come up with some non-harmful, actually useful application for them.

>> >"Technology is neutral, it's just the people using it who are bad"
>> >is a dear illusion to those of us accustomed to it and fearful that
>> >it might be taken away.  Unfortunately, the assumption is false.
>> 
>> You can cringe from technology you see as desecrating your old
>> world if you want to; I'm going to go forward using it to enhance,
>> expand, and multiply my worlds.  I know I can both have technology
>> and the spiritual, real world and am going to use and enjoy both
>> of them, together, synergistically if possible.  You can argue
>> all day and night that it's impossible, but it doesn't matter;
>> you can't deny what I'm doing is possible.
>
>Yes, it is: I simply maintain that the misuses far outweigh the
>uses, and any evaluation of technology should weigh these issues 
>carefully before we decide to accept it into our culture.

'accept into our culture'- do we have an option there?  Unless you construe
culture to be you and your hand picked associates, I don't think we have
any choice.  The real question is how do we make tech eat its own? ;)

jamie


My company doesn't have anything to do with my opinions, nor do I
if they might cause trouble for me at some point in the future.
__________________________________________________________________
'Don't think of it as a number- think of it as a unique expression
of your individuality.'                          jamiel@sybase.com


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 12:01:03 1993
From: The Evil Microwizard <uwiz@acca.nmsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 12:17:37 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: monicat still needs a ride i think

now that i have the date straight, i'll repost this :)

monicat has just arrived in SF and will need a ride to the august 1 fmr!
is there anyone who might be able to help?

call 415-885-1765...

thanks!  and don't reply to me, 'cause i won't see her before then :)

-gts/uwiz (Greg Samson, punkboy@u.washington.edu)

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 12:49:02 1993
From: asah@ginsberg.cs.berkeley.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 12:43:23 +28416
Subject: need ride for Penelope's Web...

Two newbie ravers need a ride from Berkeley to P's Web for this weekend.
  Of _course_ we'll help on gas and driving!

Please respond to this account: asah@cs.berkeley.edu
  or call: 510-644-9752

If you're in SF, we can also BART to you first...

Be cool and party on,
-A.Sah'93


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 14:00:01 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 13:46:41 PDT
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide


Hello all!  I've been bestowed the honor of presenting all of you 
The Finest in HardTranceTechnoHouse Music in San Francisco.  Thanks go 
out to Brian for maintaining this calendar over the last year and a half.
Brian still handles the sfraves administrative stuff, so any requests
should still go to him.  Listings for future events can go to me.

Tonight (thursday) is Your Sisters' House, which has become an
unofficial SFR hangout.  Friday stars Mission Rock and MESS, both
outdoors.  Corduroy City begins this week, also.  Juice should have
good musik, but the location will probably attract a non-ravey crowd.

Saturday you have a lot of choices - Penelope's Web is going to have a
beautiful outdoor site - it's organized in part by the Your Sisters'
House people, so it's sure to have a lot of heart in it.  Basics ran
off a string of great events last year; there's supposed to be a bus
from Basics to Penelope's Web, so you can go to both :). 

Sunday night, look up at the sky...


*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     Last modified: 07/28/93
*****************************************************************************

Friday, July 30th - Juice  1 yr anniversary - 540 Howard St (DV8)
	Evil Eddie Richards(UK)  Mr.Koolaid (LA)
	Buck  Spun  Ernie  Ghost  Dutch  Carlos 
	$12 - 415.905.8801  408.236.3430

Friday, July 30th - Toasted
	Binnie  Smiles  Orion  Tigger  Liquid
	510.247.2433

Friday, July 30th - MESS #4
	DJs Brad, Scottie, Stonie and guests
	call (510) 549-6253 Friday night (not a voice mail)

Saturday July 31st - PB & J - "a birthday picnic for Martin" - 3pm-?
        free - 707-935-4435

Saturday, July 31st thru Sunday Aug. 1st - Penelope's Web
	presented by One Nation Productions and Your Sisters' House
	6pm Saturday-6pm Sunday.  Camping space available.
	415-765-7671 

Saturday, July 31st - BASICS reunion
        Josh  Markie  Tony  Doran  Garth  Wool
        (415)905 9629, 18+, in San Francisco

Saturday, July 31st - Good Times
	Si  Buck  Neon Leon  Markie Mark  Thomas
	415.267.3926	$10 before 11, $10 w/costume all night long

Saturday, July 31st - Flem Globber
        Phil Smart, DJ Dan, Carlos, Dutch, Ghost
        415-773-9431  510-727-6675  408-746-2157  916-553-9755

Sunday, August 1st - lunar lunacy

Thursday, August 5th - Overnight Xpress
	Carlos  Ghost  Tai
	415.266.8232	@ Berkeley Aquatic Park

Friday, August 6th - Utopia - DJ's Ghost, Dutch, Jeff, Dave Alga, Frank
        Nitty - $10 - 415-995-4777

Saturday, August 7th - Groove Kitchen	415.267.3932

Saturday, August 7th - Where the Wild Things Are
	Ernie  Markie Mark  Buck  Spun  Tony  Noel
	415.979.8867	408.450.8537

Friday, August 13 - Sunday, August 15 - LoveStock / Festivahl
        Homegrown Love Mission in association w/ Sharon, l.P. Productions,
        Black Sun Rising & Sudzy Blunt Music, and the SF Cultural Assoc.
        A community Festivahl in celebration of music, peace, life, love,
        unity, free spirit & mind.
        Alfie.DJ E-Zone(LA) Joe Harp Charles Jayson Jay-son Rick Preston
        Buck Gary Christophe Noel Sam Raggamuffin Troy Dutch&Richie (UK)
        DJ Dan Thomas Shon Ernie Dani Kenneth Paul Shobhan DJWool Nick
        Jonah Arlanzo Darwin DJGreen Surge Si Ghost Bones DaveHall
        Live music: Daddy Goddess, Brown Fellinis, Alphabet Soup, Last2Serve,
                10 Bass T, Single Cell Orchestra, Inka Inka, Alaura of PTV
                Dub Tribe, and Sona Lacosta (UK)
        Camp and party all weekend on beautiful wooded campgrounds encircled
        by a gorgeous flowing river.
        Bring family, drums, tents, etc.  Be prepared and waste conscious.
        Global Issues Pow-Wow Saturday & Sunday Afternoon.
        408-450-9799  415-974-9707  510-988-8858  916-558-0050  209-469-3161

Saturday, August 14th - Origin: Deep Within the Spirit of Dance
	Spun, Tony, Josh, Jas, and Doran - 415.905.8831

Saturday, August 21st - Get Down Get Down Get Down and Wicked - GET WICKED
        DJ's Garth Jeno Spun Markie Barry Weaver DJ Dan Onionz 
        Digit and EFX on 4 turntables Robbie Hardkiss John Williams (sic)
        Tony Doran Ernie Josh Liquid Wool Harry Who Carlos Dani
        James (from Sac.) NOel Buck Bones Rick Preston Ghost Alfie
        Mei-Lwun Dutch Shon and Darcy
        415-905-5917 510-287-8854 408-450-2349 916-558-3403

Thursday, August 26th - Groovy Tunes (presented by Acme productions)
	415.280.6904

Saturday, August 28th - Funky Tekno Tribe: Rites of Passage
	Graeme  Tony  Phil Smart  DJ Dan  Doran
	415.266.8215

Saturday, September 4th - Massive Culture
        A unique festival with live music and your favorite DJs.
        2pm-infinity - 408-496-1780  415-979-5097

Saturday, September 18th - Universe - more details as they become available.
	415-771-9525

Saturday, September 18 -- "join us for the REVIVAL of the psychedelic groove"
        "one world / one groove" 415-588-2171 "this is just a teaser"
        [hmm is this the Universe party? -ben]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other goodwill 
	thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
        Also for the latest info on Mal you can dial (415) 241-1560.
        Every one's positive energy is DEFINITELY paying off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by fliers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their 
appropriateness in being on the list, let me know....

Thursdays

YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 415-765-7670
	[7/29 - Dani, Susan, Darci]
Lush - Chris Lum & Ernie Munson - 715 Harrison @ 3rd	21+
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - Rick Preston, others
Shine - Djs Jelly & Jay-J + guests - 683 Clementia 
Zanzibar - Acid jazz and house.  DJ Suki.  (415) 695-7887.
Primal - Tribal, Techno, trance Dj's Lewis and Bryan Hughes - 9th and Harrison
Dog House (presented by Family Dog) 8-2am  261 California Ave, Burlingame - 21+
Virgin Mary - jan cooley, dutch, larry jr. - 2000 K street, Sacramento - 21+
ZONE - Future Thru Retro - house trance techno 70's funk - 55 Natoma, 21+
Capital F - weekly guests - $2 - 21+ 10-2AM - 668 Haight @ Pierce

Fridays

Mission Rock - DJ's James, Gavin & others - 17th and Illinois. 415-241-8862 21+
Zanzibar - DJ Josh. 415-695-7887.  842 Valencia @ 19th St.
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300 21+
Soul System - 16th & Harrison, $5 [7/23 - mark farina, harry who, alfie, dani]
Corduroy City [begins july 30 - Ernie, Mark Farina, Jon Williams] 415.974.9715
Splash - 4am-12pm, Club O, 278 11th @ Folsom    FREE
Nectar - Ernie/Josh/Hardkiss/Carlos/Dutch/Ghost/Buck/Markem X - 415.905.8801
	540 Howard (DV8)
Housing Project - 6am-1pm End Up 401 6th @ Harrison 21+ 

Saturdays 

Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - noon - blondies, 540 valencia@16th 415.487.6246
Nature - sound factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st - $10 21+ 10pm-7am (415)543-0101
	resident djs pete avila/doc martin/neon leon/jack de la rosa/aaron o
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762
The Fridge - Bassment of Big Heart City - DJ's Simon Jeno Thomas - 415-487-6305
	[begins August 7th]

Sundays

EndUp from 6am - 6th & Harrison
AfterLife - 6am-2pm 375 11th st * Dj Simon, Ernie * Smart Bar * Chill Room
Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 6am-2pm - breakfast cafe upstairs - 415-979-8845
Zanzibar - 1pm-9pm - James, Gavin, and Felix playing a mix of House and Funk
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 - DJ's Scott & Robbie, Digs & Woosh, 
        Tickets at both Bulletproof locations 629 Haight (255.7168)
        & upstairs at BPM  1141 Polk (567.8439)
Tilt-a-Whirl (the nighttime version) @ Thunder Bay, Berkeley - 415-647-GRUV 
Nickie's (460 Haight) full house w/dj - 10pm-2am, 21+
Once is Never Enough - $5, "6:00 am til we hit the beach", 415-905-6443
	at the Stone (from Recycle)

Mondays 
Depth Chamber - 1190 Folsom @ 8th - 9-2am, 21+, (415)241-1560
Pepper.Deep House with Buck, Josh, Chris Lum. 668 Haight, 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 

Tuesdays 
Together - Basement of Big Heart City (339 Jessie)415-979-8825
The Pit - 9th & Harrison, below Cocktails. DJ Smile-E.  Free.

Wednesdays 
Housing Project - 9-330am @ 401 6th st / harrison - 21+
Recycle - 16th & Harrison - 18+ - 415-599-3750.
Boing - 201 Ninth at Howard - $2 b-4 12, $3 after - DJ Bugie w DRC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONNECTION 2 TAPES >> 4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr >>
contact Bob Ramstad boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com >>
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund >>
also at Tower Records Mountain View with the techno tapes
corner of San Antonio and El Camino Real
they have a Dali print with tigers on the front - $24.99 + tax
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

RADIO SHOWS: 

Saturday mornings 1-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Francesco & Unknown KZSU, 90.1 FM. 
Tuesdays 7:30-10:00pm - 103.3fm KSCU Pete Gracious + special guest djs
Wednesdays 10pm - KFJC, Foothill College (Santa Clara)
Thursdays, 7-9 on 91.3 FM KCPR San Luis Obispo - Beyond Techno, DJ EZ Whip.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351
  and
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 14:23:20 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 14:11:34 PDT
Subject: $ -> SFR GGPark

I'll be at Your Sister's House for a little bit 2nite
in case any1 wants to make a contribution to the SFRaves
Golden Gate Park party.  For those who don't know what
I look like, I'll be wearing a large plastic gold star
around my neck.

- leg of eel

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 14:45:45 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 14:28:16 PDT
Subject: CU at YSH


FYI, I'll be at YSH (as always) and selling the Come/Unity tapes and
possibly some of the rest of my "product line" as well :-)

Hope to see you all there!
Bob

'for a good time, call 415 765-7671'


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 14:45:47 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 14:24:19 -0700
Subject: Tonight's pre-ysh dinner

        After talking with Bryce and a few others, we decided the best place
for tonight's pre-YSH dinner will be the Azteca, on Church, just south of
Market and pretty much right across the street from Sparky's.  It's self
serve, so we don't have to worry about splitting a huge huge dinner bill :)
There's lots of seating, and plenty of healthy food.  I guess we'll try
to be there from about 10pm until YSH-time... we being myself and Leah and
Cindy and Dan and about 7 other east coast travellers, and anyone else who
wants to join.  Anyways, see you all there tonight!

	Brian


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 15:50:47 1993
From: geoffw@marcorp.com (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 11:18:12 PDT
Subject: Bonnie Dune party last night

Anybody know what happended to the party last night at Bonnie Dune?



			-G

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 16:17:36 1993
From: gobstop@uclink.berkeley.edu (Stevie Collins)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 16:10:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Just to annoy everyone

So I was looking through some old stuff of mine and I found this old 'zine
called Pants that Don't Fit and there's this article I've been meaning to
type in that I thought would be good for inciting a riot.  Please note that
I did not write this and in fact do not know who did, just offering it up
for discussion...

all typos are the author's (I hope...)

-------------------------------------


   "This town has become full of raving lunacy"-Euripides

I have a strong disliking for raves and ravers in general, but
I will try to keep this piece objective anyway.  I just don't
see anything good coming from this rave crap, and a lot of
turning into morons because of the rave influence.  One thing
that pisses me off is that I see rave flyers everywhere,
littering the streets, flying around, in the garbage.  Never
anywhere useful.  Maybe if the people were tighter they would
have a better system of communication, but I guess they don't
care they're making their money right?  At least these flyers
could be recyclable, but disposable culture =disposable
products I guess. By disposable I mean what is productive that
is coming from this rave movement? No literature, art,
political ideas or thought movements even exist that I know of,
and the music is irrelevant.They just run around with their
Dr.Suess clothes and whistles, Hoping for another night of
raving till dawn. The ravers I've talked to have just about no
ideas about anything, living just to get Ectsasy at the next
t rave. How they afford it I wouldn't know, as most raves are
$20 apiece. Where does all this money go? I've heard ravers
complain that they don't get any respect. Well maybe if they
did something worhty of respect, they'd get some. A pervailing
attitude among ravers is somehow they are being rebellious.
By dancing the night away? Maybe rebellious because they had
to lie to mom and dad to stay out akk night. Rave has somewhat
been adopted by populart culture (features in Newsweek,the
news, TV shows, etc.) and they aren't illegal anymore, around
here anyway.

    "The face of wasted youth, blasted by ecstsy"-Shakespeare

They may	hackers		day in hell, 	part of the    ???
dance like	on a cold	but that's	charm.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 17:43:57 1993
From: zephirus@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 17:16:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Just to annoy everyone

	This person (author of rant) is obviously a fool and should be
publicly humiliated...

	In reply to the Bonny Dune party...it happened. it was cool. raving just
gets better and better... the people selling N2O ( for those of you who always
bash on them ) banked on their first tank and gave the other one away that 
morning. So we all sat around on the beach listening to Santana taking hits
of nitrous oxide...it was beautiful...

	ah yes, a technical question. How is it that people quote other 
people in their mail. that is stuff that looks like this:

>> I thought that rave sucked! I'm never going to a rave again in my life.
>> When I tried to go inside, they tried to take my water away because it
>> might be laced with LSD. Well, it was, so I poured it all over the door
>> man's head. He's currently spending some time in Bellvue with uncle 
>> Thorazine and Aunty Prozac....
> You sir, are a complete and utter moron. In fact, you have no intelligence
> whatsoever. And I am surprised that you managed to learn how to use a the
> terminal you typed that nonsense on. And for that matter, not only did I
> find your opinions offense, but I find you disgusting as an individual.
	I think the quality of discussion on this list is abominable. And
I am hereby ending my subscription....

	Ok, so maybe it's not THAT bad. But I would like to learn how to make
all those ">" so I can quote people more easily...:>


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 18:32:59 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 18:15:08 PDT
Subject: any other hams going to Penelope's Web?

Are any other ham radio operators (besides me) going to Penelope's Web?
I've offered to help with communications for the event, provided that
at least one other licensed operator is available so we have somebody
who can legally operate the radio at the other end.

Please call Andy at 415-851-4127 if this applies to you and you are willing.



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 18:33:42 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 18:25:17 PDT
Subject: any ham radio operators?


If there are any ham radio operators out there, give me a yell.
Penelope's Web has been offered the use of a ham radio rig, but they
need another operator... it could be pretty cool.

Bob


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 19:06:27 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 29 Jul 1993 18:48:06 -0700
Subject: Re:  any other hams going to Penelope's Web?

W3XY  . . . at your service . . . QRZ?


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 19:09:37 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (leah)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 18:51:56 -0700
Subject: how to get to the land of leah


not really, just how to get to my apartment:

driving!

Take the 80 to berkeley, ashby exit
follow that east, make a left at Telegraph
make another left at Haste, and the building complex on the left is
        Leah's co-op.  find a place to park, and go to the gate at the
        gate near the corner of Dwight and Dana.
You should hear the music by now :)
Dial #12 to be let in.

(brian wrote this, and I am going to expand a bit)

the apartment complex address is 2415 haste *or* 2415 dwight.  I just
live on the dwight side, in apt #12, so that's why I use dwight as my
address.  anyway, if you want to avoid telegraph, drive up ashby to
mlk and take a left.  then, take a right on dwight.  I live between
dana and telegraph, on the left hand side.  

from public transportation!!

ok, all you fellow bartophiles (yeah, right, ooh do I love bart).  the 
easiest way to do this if you want to walk is to get off at the berkeley
station.  walk south on shattuck *away* from university, you will cross
allston, then kittredge, then bancroft, durant, channing, then haste.
turn left on either haste or dwight and walk up past fulton, ellsworth,
and dana.  continue as above.

if you want to walk as little as possible, take the #40 bus.  wait at
the stop on the corner of shattuck and allston, on the *same* side of
the street as the big round metal and glass above ground entrance to
the bart.  disembark the fine ac transit at dwight and haste.  

or!  another way - go to the rockridge station, don't cross the street,
take the 51 and get off at dwight and college and walk down dwight. or
get off at telegraph and bancroft and walk down telegraph. 

don't you love a lot of options?  *grin*

so far, one person has offered a big salad.  any other offers?  

always, leah



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 19:37:57 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 19:16:05 PDT
Subject: Re:  any other hams going to Penelope's Web?


>   W3XY  . . . at your service . . . QRZ?

They could use communications support between the map-point and the site.
This probably entails getting up there on the early side.

I can bring a couple of 2 meter portables.
1 is a 3.5 watt older Kenwood, the other a 1-watt TH21.
They only have to reach 5 miles or so, so that should be adequate,
assuming there isn't a mountain in between.  If you have a portable
to bring, it couldn't hurt.

My landline # is 415-851-4127 (home)  543-9001 x224 (work)

I am at work now.
I may make it to YSH tonight.



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Thu Jul 29 20:51:26 1993
From: asah@ginsberg.cs.berkeley.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 20:40:11 +28416
Subject: Desperate for a ride to Penelope's Web!!!


Not _that_ desperate, but I really do want to go.  I'm still looking for
  seats in a car up to the scene - will help with gas, driving.  I
  live in Berkeley, but can meet you wherever's convenient (ie. BART, SF, etc.)

adam

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 08:16:29 1993
From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 08:06:00 -0700
Subject: DeepSpace



DeepSpace was amazing lastnite/this morning ;)

Harry Who played a good set, but when Shon 
got on them wheels of fire he funked it up!
And to follow was Jason(spun) and he seriously
put me in over drive. I saw alot of people I
have not seen since I stopped going to events
awhile ago ;) The crowd was 70% idiots with
the remaining 30% being the ones who cared for
nothing else but to dance to the seriously funky
music that was being played! I had a killer time
and I just wanted to share that with you all.
How did YSH go....anyone?

one tired and grooving human ;)

noah

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 08:38:10 1993
From: casad@cadence.com (Marc Casad)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 08:26:10 -0700
Subject: Please unsubscribe me ... !!


It's been fun, but I just can't keep up with all the rave mail 
and also what I get here at work anymore. 
Peace!! 

=:> 


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 09:57:10 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 12:35:20 EDT
Subject: Re: DeepSpace (YSH)

YSH went really well. Still in Stevenson alley but different place. I
like the new place a lot better because there's lot more room. And two
bathrooms!

The music, as usual, had a good amount of variety and was a lot of
fun. The last DJ (arrgh I can't remember her name) played the best
tribal set I've ever heard.

The sfravers crew were there in force. Some of them were just chilling
out and others were dancing. Brian, of course, was the first person to
find the roof :). And Monicat (!!!!!!), a new SF resident, showed up
and contributed lots of smiles and good vibes. We're really privileged
to have her and Susie and Dan move out here from the east coast.

You know, when I moved out here from the midwest, I didn't know anyone
for the longest time. And now... now I'm meeting warm loving accepting
people faster than I can learn their (your) names :). You're like
family to me.

And YES!!!! MY KNEE WORKS!!!!!! Maybe I overdid it a bit but hey
there's all this stuff inside and it's been trapped there for so long
and it wants OUT OUT OUT and finally there's a way. And it's oh so
much fun :).

Sean

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 11:42:31 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 11:31:39 PDT
Subject: calendar updates


A few updates to the calendar based on flyers from Your Sisters' House...

DJ lineup for Toasted tonight: 
	Carlos  Tigger  Smiles  Phelan  Liquid  Orion  Bennie  D.R.C.
	510.247.2433

Aurgasm is happening Saturday, in a new location.
	all ages, $5 before 12.  Call 415.974.9363 for info.

One to look forward to:
	fluid groove - Sunday, September 5th 
	DJs Meme (SF)  Laura and SLiP (NYC)  XDZebra (SLC)  + Guests
	All ages, no alcohol, $5 donation requested
	info: 415.487.8497

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 11:46:42 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 11:30:24 PDT
Subject: JackFruit

well, we were playing a game called fruit whompers
and people all came up with the name of some fruit
and someone said "Jack Fruit" which no one knew what it was
but it didnte really matter.. i look it up on my little online
webster dictionary to get

jack-fruit \'jak-,fr:ut\ n
[Pg jaca jackfruit + E fruit]
(1830)
:a large widely cultivated tropical tree (Artocarpus heterophyllus)
     related to the breadfruit that yields a fine-grained yellow wood
     and immense fruits which contain an edible pulp and nutritious seeds;
also: its fruit

which didnt really satisfy me, so i came up with this
(yes, im bored)

In the beginning, there was Jack, and Jack had a garden.  And from this
garden came the garden of all gardens.  And while one day viciously
throwing seeds on the ground, Jack boldy declared, "Let there be FRUIT!" 
and fruit was born.  I am the seed, I am the creator, and this is my garden.
And, in my garden there is ONLY fruit.  But, I am not so selfish because 
once you enter my garden it then becomes OUR garden and OUR fruit.  
And, you see, no one tree owns fruit because fruit is a universal food, 
grown and enjoyed by all.  You see, fruit is a food that no one can understand
really unless you're deep into the taste of fruit.  Fruit is an uncontrollable 
desire to spread your roots.  And, as I told you before, this is our garden 
and our fruit.  And in every garden, you understand, there's the trees.  
And, in this garden, the trees is Jack.  There's some of you who might 
wonder who is Jack and what is it that Jack does.  Jack is the one who gives 
you the power to grow your fruit.  Jack is the one who gives you the power to
spread your roots. Jack is the one who gives you the ability to grow up big 
and tall.  Jack is the one who learns you how to grow your fruit. Jack is 
the one that can bring species and species of all Jacks together to one garden.
You may be Apple, you may be Lemon,  you may be Orange or Nectarine.  
Don't make a difference in OUR Garden. And this is our garden


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 13:16:54 1993
From: diva@uclink.berkeley.edu (leah)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:04:03 -0700
Subject: ysh



I have one thing to say.

magic.

ok, two.

AMAZING!!!!


still tired and sore (I've only had about 3 hours of sleep =), leah



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 13:51:06 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:38:45 PDT
Subject: anyone want to go to Penelope's Web FOR FREE?


If you've got a pickup truck and are willing to pick up the sound gear
in SF tomorrow early morning (Saturday) and drive up to the space,
stay for the event, and drive the sound back down to SF, we will
GLADLY let you in for free and also pay for your gas.

(The sound equipment is too large to fit in anything short of a pickup
or cargo van --- and thanks to it being the first of the month,
basically every truck in the city is rented --- they lost our
reservation, jerks.)

Murphy's law strikes again, but we will prevail!

Call (415) 506-2784 NOW if you can help.

Thanks,
Bob

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 14:35:54 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 17:26:25 EDT
Subject: Need ride from bay area to Penelope's Web

I'm interested in getting a ride from the bay area to the Penelope's
Web site. Otherwise, I'll just go to Basics. I can supply: gas money,
mix tapes, CD player with tape adapter, CDs, chicken noises.

So if you're heading up, why not send me email (BEFORE 6PM TODAY), or
call me at 916-643-6751 x88 (work) 916-757-1373 (home). You can leave
a message and I will get it.

If you're leaving early it might make sense for me to crash at your
place tonight...

Sean

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 14:55:10 1993
From: louis@barra.com (Louis A. Dunne)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 14:44:53 -0700
Subject: Ride to Penelope's Web


	In keeping with the current trend, I too need a ride
	to Penelope's Web.  If any kind soul can offer me a
	ride, I would be eternally grateful.  I'm willing to
	pay gas money etc, and will repay the favour in good
	will and kindness, and hopefully return the favour
	someday.

	Anyhow, please let me know if you have a spare seat,
	you can reply to me today, or call me at

		(415) 282-7627

Thanks, ciao
Louis

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 15:32:14 1993
From: "Kristin Spence" <kristin@wired.com>
Date: 30 Jul 1993 15:17:28 -0800
Subject: Re: rave guide

        Reply to:   RE>rave guide

hi guys.

please put me on your e-mail list!  we'll try to make it out to some of the
events.

quick anecdote:  we have a lot of house-folk in house, and one of our employees
works for The Gathering people, so a group of us went to the last one -- that
one out in the Livermore fields last full moon (the rave where the fire broke
out).  who did we party there with?  none other than
author/performer/individualist Spalding Gray!  (he said it was his first rave .
. . )  seemed to be tripping pretty hard.

anyway, thanks for the list.

peace,

kristin spence
assistant editor
Wired magazine

<kristin@wired.com>
415.904.0660  (vox)
415.904.0669  (fax)






From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 15:36:47 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 15:22:45 PDT
Subject: Penelope's Web (yes, again)


FYI, the truck crisis has passed, we're all set.  Primary Sound will
be taking care of the sound, and we managed to find a cargo van
(hallalujah!) to get the stuff up there and so forth.

NOW, regarding rides, I'd love to see as many of you as possible make
it up there.

IF you are driving up and are willing to take people with you: send me
your time and place of departure, a phone number where you can be
reached, and the number of people you have extra space for.  An idea
of route or rendevous point (i.e. "can pick up in SF", "can pick up
peninsula -> SF and north", etc) would be great too.

IF you want a ride: send me a phone number where you can be reached,
your location, where you could meet your ride, and when you'd be
willing to go.  (hints: a willingness to meet in SF proper will
probably help, as will flexibility about departure times) You should
expect to split gas with the drivers.

I'll try to put people together tonight as email comes in, and I'll be
checking email tonight up until 8 PM or so.  We do have two vans, if
necessary, we may end up sending one down Saturday afternoon to SF to
rescue the stragglers :-) (we'll probably ask people to help pay for
gas, like $5 or something)

Yowsa,
Bob

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 16:43:40 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 16:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: water

hiya all....just use the lame old excuse of either "you are on a special
diet" or that you need water "for medical purposes" my parents use to get
nice homemade popcorn into movie theatres by telling the people
that....partyon...susie (:

On Sun, 18 Jul 1993, rocky mullin wrote:

> 
> 	there *must* be a law on the books that a bar or dancing
> 	establishment needs to provide water free of charge...
> 	and make it a crime to purposely deny the flow of free
> 	water... like shutting down fountains.  it seems to me
> 	that at dancing kind of places, water is a necessity just
> 	like emergency exits are a necessity.
> 




From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 17:59:28 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Benjamin P. Wing)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 17:44:22 -0700
Subject: Re: DeepSpace (YSH)

In article <9307301635.AA03214@pilot.njin.net> Sean writes:
|YSH went really well. Still in Stevenson alley but different place. I
|like the new place a lot better because there's lot more room. And two
|bathrooms!
|
|The music, as usual, had a good amount of variety and was a lot of
|fun. The last DJ (arrgh I can't remember her name) played the best
|tribal set I've ever heard.

Have to agree with Sean and Leah, these YSH's just keep getting better
and better.  The last DJ was Darcy, I think; both she and Susan played
lots of wicked fast music, which I really like.  The space was a lot
better than last week; I'd say it's a perfect space except for the
location.  Lots of huge windows so you get good ventilation and you get
these great views six floors down onto Market St.  Also the space is
big (and the crowd did a pretty good job of filling it) and integrated
-- all on one floor unlike last week, so there's a closer feeling.  The
vibe was really high and we even managed an "eruption" into a big
circle, as Brian says.

And to top it off, I ran into my friend James the Homeless Guy once
again!  I think it must be fate -- I ran into him on the street one
night in the Haight last winter, and let him stay on my couch a few
weeks later when it was raining hard, and since then I've run into
him in at least 8 different places, all in really random circumstances;
e.g. I saw him at a party the night of the Haight St. Fair, and I
saw him at the Crash Worship concert at 1015 Folsom.

So many sfravers/neravers were there ...  hail to BobR, Cindy, Susie,
Monicat, Fran, Fluid, Amit, Brian, Leah, Raffaele, Danarchy, Inhuman,
Philip, Sean, Tamara, Rob (sorry, I keep confusing you with Rob
Carasik!), Ravi (and friend Andrew), (Bryce? I don't think he made
it to YSH), I know I must've missed someone ... also to YSH organizer
types Lynn, Liz, Laura, Dina, Jan Cooley ...

ben
---
"... then the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was
more painful than the risk it took to blossom." -- Anais Nin

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 20:06:19 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 19:56:52 -0800
Subject: values [Re: water]

re the following message:  one of the things i like about our community and  
our celebration ritual is that we have a chance to be a little idealistic,  
build something new to our collective taste, and evolve it.  using our time  
together as a "laboratory for living," we can take what works - what we find  
aesthetic - and apply it to the rest of our lives (the ultimate laboratory  
for living).

here's a question to think about:  is it consistent with the values of our  
community (whatever they are!) to cultivate a habit of lying in order to get  
what one wants?

[ps: i think it's reasonable to call water at a rave a medical necessity.   
i'm less convinced about a "special diet" of popcorn...]

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 16:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: water
In-Reply-To: <9307190336.AA18870@soda.berkeley.edu>

hiya all....just use the lame old excuse of either "you are on a special
diet" or that you need water "for medical purposes" my parents use to get
nice homemade popcorn into movie theatres by telling the people
that....

On Sun, 18 Jul 1993, rocky mullin wrote:

> 

> 	there *must* be a law on the books that a bar or dancing
> 	establishment needs to provide water free of charge...
> 	and make it a crime to purposely deny the flow of free
> 	water... like shutting down fountains.  it seems to me
> 	that at dancing kind of places, water is a necessity just
> 	like emergency exits are a necessity.
> 






From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jul 30 23:25:22 1993
From: zephirus@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 23:12:53 -0700
Subject: YSH

 
 
 
     Me and the crew beamed down to YSH last night. Pretty
cool I must say. I had more fun at the last one though, but
that's just me... vibe registered somewhere between 8-9 on
the consciousness scale. That being:
     1. Pass the 40.
     2. Let's go home.
     3. better take some of that e
     4. This music isn't too bad.
     5. I like to dance.
     6. I feel really good.
     7. I love you.
     8. I am you.
     9. Where am I?
     10. Crystal light.
 
     I don't remember if I've ever experienced 10 before but
when I do I'll let you all know, unless I forget
again...hmm.  Someone commented that I was crying...I didn't
even realize it. Amazing.
          The producers are SO nice. Wow... good party...
Kirk thought there were a lot of beautiful women but never
seemed to loose his ego... Spock said "These people, they
dance so strangely." Bones injected him with 350mg of  MDMA
and we called it a night...
 
                              -z
 

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 31 08:34:34 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 93 08:23:55 PDT
Subject: Penelope's Web LOCATION


The map point is in Willets (sp?) at the public library.

Take 101 N from SF, drive roughly 3 hours until you reach the town of
Willets.  Once in town, you need to take a right on Commercial Dr.  It
should be the 4th street from the edge of town, just after the 2nd
light.  The library is on the left shortly, park in the lot.

Murphy's Law strikes again, the voicemail is currently hosed... PLEASE
pass this location information on to anyone and everyone you know!

I'm off to call every store on the phone list, just in case we can't
get it updated...

Yowsa,
Bob

PS my number is (415) 988-8625 if you need to reach me, I'm leaving at
noon for the site (and my car is full, sorry, but i might be able to
hook up stragglers with a ride)

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 31 09:56:10 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 93 09:39:30 -0700
Subject: Willits distance..

  Hi,just wanted to let people know that,although it's an absolutely
gorgeous ride,I'd be supriised if anyone made it to Willits in 3
hours..its quite a distance. (northern Mendocino county..) I'd say 4 or 5
hours might be a more realistic estimate,esp. since its the weekend.
(RV's etc. on the narrow road.)
Sounds like a breathtaking drive..I love it up there!!


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 31 12:47:40 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 93 12:31:10 PDT
Subject: rides to P's Web


Amit has two spaces, is leaving Mtn View heading north on 101 at 4:30
pm.  Give him a call at 415 988-1557 if you need a ride and hopefully
he'll still have space.  Leave a message with your number if he's not
in.

(The voicemail got unhosed!  Yeah!)

Leaving now, and see you all up there,
Bob

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 31 21:53:34 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 93 19:59:08 PDT
Subject: ???


>So many sfravers/neravers were there ...  hail to BobR, Cindy, Susie,
>Monicat, Fran, Fluid, Amit, Brian, Leah, Raffaele, Danarchy, Inhuman,
>Philip, Sean, Tamara, Rob (sorry, I keep confusing you with Rob
>Carasik!), Ravi (and friend Andrew), (Bryce? I don't think he made
>it to YSH), I know I must've missed someone ... also to YSH organizer
>types Lynn, Liz, Laura, Dina, Jan Cooley ...

And the best memeory award goes to........... Ben P. Wing
for a 23, yes count 'em folks, 23 names.  

Damn!  Took me 2 or 3 times to get the 10 or so SFRavers I know down.
good job.

-Mark

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 31 21:57:55 1993
From: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 93 20:14:05 PDT
Subject: ???

Sayeth Mykl G:

>You might recoil at his usurption of the word "rave", but this would at
>least imply that Dunnifer's clued in to the applications we have in mind.

I'm sure he does because he's the guy I met once at a copy shop and who shares
a mutual friend, Michael, that comes over and chats at my house every once in a
while.  Both hard core activist types.  Michael also leaves these boxes on my
porch every once in a while with junk that he gets somewhere, I think it's
stuff left out during the anual junk collection day, stuff he gets dumster
diving and stuff that students from Cal leave when they go but every once in a
while there will be something cool in the stuff like a Cross pen or an AC
adapter with a multiple connecter or a 110/220 converter, etc, but I digress.
Michael always fills me in on the local, national, world activism, resistence,
and conspiracy theories and has been curious about the rave scene.  I told
him about our first discussion on this list about using the transmiters (6
months ago?  more?) and he got excited and told me what Dunifer had in the
works and that he could hook us up.  Michael probably told dunifer about us. 
I'm glad to see Dunifer's projects are happening.

-Mark

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 31 22:24:01 1993
From: Kyle Farrell <orb@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1993 21:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: my vacation...

I just got back from SF yesterday & now I can see why this mailing list is
so huge!  The scene is so alive down there!  I can't say I went to very
many events, but what I saw was great!  Saturday & Monday we went to Don's
Different Ducks and saw some really great djs there.  Then Tuesday we went
to Together which was about 2 blocks from the youth hostel we were staying
at (btw, if your planning a vacation and need a place to stay the hostel
was $100 for 6 nights).  Together was just amazing!  Garth was doing mind
blowing mixes, I can't even compare it to anything in Seattle...I could go
on but I think you get the point! :)

Kyle



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sat Jul 31 23:45:43 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 01:11:32 CDT
Subject: FMR + me



Hello,

I am sitting here at work - I have a ton of stuff to do - but I cannot concentrate  
- right now I am feeling a weath of emotions -some of which I am not quite sure of  
how to deal with.......I made an ass of my self to the internet-rave community -  
until now I have never realized what the rave-list exatcly mean to me - or more  
specifically how much they, and the comments and opions contained within them,  
meant to me.  I don't think that if all of you, and these lists meant nothing to me  
I would be feeling the way I am right now - like shit - In one little private  
message I feel like I have underminded everything these lists have tried to  
accomplish since their formation.....why I am not sure - I think the reason is  
because I have come to trust and value the opions of all of you - and then I turn
and make a mockery of it - I realize that I hardly ever post - I think that is the  
cause of my natural tendince to observe - to watch and see what happens - that and  
sometimes I am overwhelmed by the truthfullnes and the obvious emotions of certain  
posts that I feel that I cannot post back - that my re: would only detract from the  
origonal post instead of helping it......

All my life I have had this innane tendency to take everything directed towards me  
extremely personally - I have gotten better over the years but still their are  
times when I just react without thinking about the recations towards my reactions -  
the effect of my words feelings and actions towards the community - these are the  
NOW moments for me - instantaious, uncorrelated - just their - sometimes they  
create beautiful vibes and harmonies - and other times they are just completely the  
wrong thing and are destructive - Its like temper but different - It sometimes  
orients itself towards taking a positive Idea and taking it even forther into a  
truley beautiful Idea - othertimes the results suck - thats what happend with my  
reaction towards Hazards post to me - I took it the WRONG way - I thought he meant  
something he didn't and then blew it up and made it into a big deal - spontaniously  
- without even thinkiong about it - I read the meassage and interperted as negative  
- and then just went with the flow - and spewed out something that I really  
shouldn't have and that I am truly sorry for now.,....

But In reality that flow - tha instinatious emotion is really a deeper part of the  
rave scene for me - the flow of energy within a mass community of people - that  
spotanious combustion of emotion when you walk out onto a floor and see 2,000 of  
your friends all smiling at you - and you want to hug each and every one of them to  
show your emotion for that support, energy, and love they are giving you - The  
spotanious flow when you decided to throw a party for the next weekend when you  
find out on a saturday night at 2am that the scheduled party is canceled - just so  
people have that outlet - so they can express their emotions and really, and maybe  
one of the basic Ideas I have over this whole thing (and please lets all talk about  
this point because this is only a gut feeling I have and I'm not sure if it is  
right) is that people are placed in a situation where they have to expose  
themselves and let go - they are forced to go with the flow - or miss the point of  
the party - and it is our job to embrace those people and bring them into the flow  
- if their is a person sitting on the side - looking like they are not having any  
fun at all - that is the time to go up to them and introduce you self with smiles  
and hugs - give them attention - all in an effort to bring them into this flow -  
this energy and allow them to experience it......Right now, I think that is truly  
the most important thing any of us can be doing - is not forgetting about "newbies"  
who aren't grasping whats happening - but to draw them into the experience......

Now, that is all fine and good - and I hope that everyone who conciders them self a  
"raver" or at least considers themselves as embracing the rave Ideals lives by that  
philosophy - I hope that one lesson that this list has taught everyone is that kind  
of Ideal - that philosophy of helping each other - and using your own energies and  
talents, love, emotions, and experience to bring others into the flow - into the  
groove - into the rave experience that we all commonly share - but the question  
that remains in front of us - and that I have not concived of an answer to - nor  
have I seen one is this -- What do we do with those with the entirely opposite  
attitude - those with a negative attitude who draw people out of the energy flow  
instead of bringing them into it - Their have been many times when I've tried to  
embrace in the energy and flow a person such as this and have been seriously  
"rejected?" on that platue and felt depressed because that was one person I  
couldn't bring into the energy - and at those points I feel like I have falied my  
own mission as a raver.  In saying this you can imagine how horrible I feel right  
now about my message to hazard.....complete.....But, living in the flow;/energy  
philosophy what does one do when one feels like they have been slapped in the face?  
turn around and walk away - giving up - try to incite some emotion in the person  
and hopefully have them try and prove you wrong and then fall into the flow/energy  
through sort of a back door?  - or do we embrace them again and hope they feel the  
energy through the second, third, or fourth embrace?  are their more options?  I  
have no Idea......I really don't - is each situation different or is their a better  
way to draw someone into our energy, something that variations can be based off of  
to get people into the flow/energy - or am I entierly wrong about all of this?

Just, as side note - I don't proof read or plan out what I am saying It just  
happens - spotatinous - out of the flow of my emotions right now......

Chicago is on the verge of being dead - as much as I hate to say it its true.  The  
people here are very eletist and I don't know how to change that, or even if I  
can.....Most of the people have their attitude and a certain group of people they  
will talk to....I don't really see a community in this city - its all little groups  
of people - all involved in their own personal attitudes taht they cannot seem to  
put down.....We have tried various things - a bout cruise, a couple pickins,  
breeakfast - but none so far have brought any of us closer together - Its very  
saddening - and I wish I knew how to change that feeling.....how to form this  
community rather than have it all segmented into tiny groups of friends who only  
dance wiht each other in lttle circles.....

That is what I am trying to accomplish with FMR and other events - is to break  
through that segmentaion of the community and form it in a unifyed group again -  
but in Chicago it seems that people come only for the partys - once they leave they  
are no longer a raver - they are something else - as if their raver personalities  
are on;ly a facade for the party....Yesterday (or maybe two days ago I'm not sure)  
I was walking down clark street and this guy looks at me and says - ravers suck and  
so will your FMR......I smiled and walked away - but I felt terrible about that  
incdent - I cannot comprehend why a person whould do such a thing - and I also  
imagine that things like that maybe the reason why Chicago is dying......Do raves  
have a positive image within the youth culuture of your cities? Here they don't  
they have a very negative image within the youth culture......thats why the rave  
and the potentioal rave philosophy stop after the rave - I wish it wouldn't - I  
wish that somehow everyone could draw together and the spirit/flow/energy would  
contiune after the party is over.....but how does one create that - I try my  
hardest to live out my philosopy every day - and even though we all have our  
faliures - i try my hardest at doing what in my heart I belive in....And I truly  
belive in creating the atomposhpere and love of a rave after the rave has ended -  
having people take those feelings home with them and continue to influence others  
with them after the rave is over - but how do we as the mainstay of a scene create  
that and then take tha and go beyond that step into what ever is next - I'm not  
quite sure - but I hope what ever it is will hapen and be created in the right way  
and everyone can experience the emotions and energies behind a rave.....

To me Full Moon Rave exmplifies the comming together of a community - now I hope  
that I can create that community here in Chicago - that is my goal, that is my  
dream, and I need all of you to make that dream come ture.

--Kurt
August First, 1993

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 01:34:51 1993
From: "Joe Thomas" <jhthomas@us.oracle.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 01:32:27 PDT
Subject: Re: rave guide

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU's message of 07-30-93 15:35


Kristen Spense says.....

	quick anecdote:  we have a lot of house-folk in house, and one of our
	employees works for The Gathering people, so a group of us went to the
	last one -- that one out in the Livermore fields last full moon (the
	rave where the fire broke out).  who did we party there with?  none
	other than author/performer/individualist Spalding Gray!  (he said it
	was his first rave . . . )  seemed to be tripping pretty hard.

Hey, I want to hear more about raving with Spaulding Grey!!!!

"Everything I'm going to tell you is true........expect that the banana did not
stick to the wall......"



Joe Thomas
Oracle Business Alliance Programs
415-506-5566   fax: 415-506-7255
jhthomas@oracle.com

"Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectos Nunc"


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 07:22:05 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 7:15:46 PDT
Subject: Re: FMR + me

Kurt,

All any of us can do is to search within ourselves 
to find what we feel is good about being alive, 
and existing in the universe we find ourselves in.

Each of us can, if we choose, express these good feelings
to show what we have found, 
To show that it is possible for people to discover good feelings
within themselves.

It is no one's duty or responsibility to make people feel "good",
And no one has the right to decide what is right for others.
Everyone has their own path, and if paths converge, merge, and
interact in support of one another, 
then that is great for those paths.

The most important thing is to be true to yourself.
If you find others who are true to themselves in a similar way,
then you may be able to connect and share your findings with them.  

Those who seek your guidance might be helped in their search to find 
what is right for them 
by seeing how you have found what is right for you.

People should support each other in their individual quests
because we really *are* in this together,
but each of us is also alone and frightened, unsure of who we are,
and *why* we are.  

People who are unsure of themselves
will be unsure of each other.
So the most important things you can do is to try to understand yourself,
and maybe, if you know how, help others to understand themselves.

With enough time and access to information, it would seem that more
understanding is inevitable.  In other words; There is hope for the future.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 14:07:58 1993
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 13:57:58 -0700
Subject: Re: FMR + me

	so.  fmr.  the party.  the vibe.  the moon.
	information???

calirock


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 14:47:07 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 14:42:29 PDT
Subject: Not Me 4 FMR


Do Whoever's Making the Phone Tree For FMR -

 While I've been able to call other folks for previous FMR's , I
won't be able to tonight. Please keep me off the phone tree list
for tonight's FMR .

				Thanks!
					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

-- 

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 15:20:52 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 15:15:38 -0700
Subject: ride to berkeleyyeyeyeyyeyeyyye

  Is anyone going from SF to berkeley (leahs)
If youre going and have room..I'd dig a ride...
Drop me a line by email or fone..
-Chris.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 16:24:02 1993
From: kris@netcom.com (Kris Skrinak)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 16:14:13 -0700
Subject: Re:  Not Me 4 FMR

Could someone please leave info for me on how to
get to FMR? If you could please e-mail, or leave
a message on 415.332.6823. I need FMR!

Thanks!

Kris

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 18:43:11 1993
From: John Turpin <turpin@apple.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 18:32:18 -0700
Subject: ANyone at SIGGRAPH?


Hello

Anyone on the list out here in beautiful Aneheim, CA for SIGGRAPH '93?

Anyone know of any kool things happn' this week in the LA area, or any
kool clubs that deserve a visit?

Thanks - C Ya
johnny t

(private email may be appropriate)


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 20:18:10 1993
From: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Date: 01 Aug 1993 14:11:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Public Dump site

Anyone know why I can't put GIF files in the /pub/incoming directory over
  at soda.berkeley.edu????

I was using media-lab, but that got clobbered . . . 


Just curious


Dave SCruton   "Celtic Warrior"
Hughes Aircraft

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 20:52:13 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 20:30:42 PDT
Subject: FMR ride?

Anyone going to the FMR from south bay tonight?
I might need a ride.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEXUS SYSTEMS/CYBERTRIBE-5 : Voice:(415)965-2384   Fax: (415)327-6416
Editor/Instigator/Catalyst : Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>
Production Crew		   : Universal Movement Trinity <umt@nexsys.net>

        "They might stop the party, but they can't stop the future"

		--PGP Public key available upon request--
Paranoia - Your state of mind when you finally realize what's really going on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 22:52:37 1993
From: ianc@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 22:46:32 -0700
Subject: FMR info


Just returned to sfraves today. Need FMR location info. Mail me PLEASE!

iiaannc (half duplex)           90% of life is just showing up. -w.allen  
       "Shut up in the name of all that does not suck!" -Butthead 
         ianc@cats.ucsc.edu          rob.lord@macmail.ucsc.edu

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Sun Aug  1 23:54:17 1993
From: Kyle Farrell <orb@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1993 23:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: song id...

I hate to post song ids, but I really want to know this one!
Its a song on Buck's mix tape (which I highly recommend!), probably called
"House Nation".  Its got a really laid back feeling, there is a guy saying
"House nation, under a groove" along with some other stuff.  Any info
would be helpful. :)
Thanks in advance,
Kyle



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 01:36:42 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 2 Aug 1993 01:25:52 -0700
Subject: FMR ride needed!


Just got back from hauling things back from Penelope's Web.  If anyone
is heading out to the site through the City, I'm in Pacific Heights.
We just came down 101 through Marin and it looks like a clear night
all the way to the ocean.  I really don't want to miss this one!
I also have the directions.  Please email asap or call me at 415/567-5517

Fred

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 02:14:36 1993
From: Maureen Garrett <metalmau@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 2 Aug 1993 02:06:40 -0700
Subject: Re:  FMR ride needed!

It's almost 2 AM.  Idrove to the FMR site, which is in Marin some 40 miles
from my house.  No one there at 1:00, and I thought about my cozy bed, the
long sleepless weekend of partying...time for rest!  What am I doing here?!
So I headed home.  I did notice the caravans of ravers on route around 1:30.

the party should fly, it is way out in the middle of nowhere...really nice
location...  (I did hang around in the parking lot for about an
hour...before I headed home)  Look forward to hearing everyone's report..
--Peace on this beautiful full moon morning...  --Maureen

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 02:34:23 1993
From: bprofane@netcom.com (Gert Niewahr)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 02:30:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Modern Rock Doc knows his shit

>On live 105 tonight, the "Modern Rock Doc", (Gene Shoenfeld, an MD
>that KITS has on every monday night) impressed me for a media source

[...for many good reasons]

Dr. Shoenfeld has been around for a *long* time as a hardheaded debunker of 
anti-drug propaganda.  He is also active in the Drugs conference on the
Well, so those of you with Well accounts can go have a look at what he's
got to say on a number of subjects.


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 09:42:20 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 93 09:33:15 -0700
Subject: Penelope's Web was wonderful


I just returned to work after a wonderful weekend at Penelope's Web.  
The drive was very well worth it.  One cannot describe how beautiful 
it was on the land that the Promoters rented. Of course there were 
only about 25 or so people that showed up (not exact head count), 
but those of us that did make the drive were treated to a wonderful 
retreat.  The music was really good, and although I didn't dance 
as much as I would have liked, it really didn't matter.  
Betsy and I got up there around 9 or so ,(Thanks for driving Besty), and it 
was just starting to get dark.  I really did not know what to expect, 
but was pleasantly surprised. There were working toilets, out in 
the middle of the field (closed in of course), a real shower, and 
an outdoor kitchen, from which we were served a great dinner of beans 
and rice, and breakfast of Pancakes, both banana wheat berry, and 
regular, eggs, coffee, and fresh fruit.  The space was so beautiful, 
it is almost impossible to describe but i will try. The man who owned 
the land, I was told, owned about 400 or so acres.  (I am sure Bob 
will have a better description later)  The dancing area, was this 
huge circle, that was off on its own.  Up from that to the left was 
the garden and the kitchen.  The garden was gorgeous.  It had little 
sitting areas, a lily pond, benches, and a grassy area right in the middle 
of the garden to lie down and look at the sun or the stars.  There 
was even a mudbath for all of the guests.  The tents were set up 
all around the area.  The space was large enough that you could get 
far away from the music. Speaking of music, the DJ's did a great 
job.  They spun from about 9pm Saturday night till about 3 Sunday 
afternoon.  By that time everyone was either in the mudbath, or on 
their was to the river.  I was at the river.  It was really refreshing 
considering it was so hot in Willits.  Bob even brought his dog Genni, 
who he jumped off of the rope swing into the river with.  She seemed 
to be enjoying that because she climbed up the mountain just to be 
with Bob. 
When we got back from the river Sunday afternoon, everyone was just 
lying on the grass in the garden.  It was quite warm up there but 
not unbearable.  When we reluctantly left at about 5 pm, the YSH 
promoters were trying to think of a way to have the FMR at that space, 
that night.  I don't know how that turned out.  
To everyone that did go, It was great to meet you. 
To everyone that didn't go, you really missed out on a wonderful 
time.  Even though it didn't turn out quite as expected, it was a 
wonderful retreat out of the city.  You could actually walk around 
by yourself for miles literally, and not be bothered by another living 
soul.  If I could have, I would have liked to stay a week or so.  
It was so relaxing out there, even with the music playing.  
Thank you to Melissa, who worked so hard getting it togther, and 
who fed us the whole weekend. Thank you to everyone else who 
put this together.  Hopefully they will be able to put together another 
one, and have a bigger turn out.  It may have been a long drive, 
but it was worth it ten times over. Where else could you just spend 
20 dollars to listen and dance to great music, and have a weekend get away 
all in one?    




vivianm

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 09:53:14 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 12:43:06 EDT
Subject: FMR + me

Our family had this dog, Benji, a Lhasa Apso. I don't know what his
problem was, but when we got him he was always in a bad mood. Snap and
bite, sit and sulk, not a happy dog at all.

So I'd be nice to him. Sometimes he'd try to bite me, or just growl,
but I kept up at it. I just loved him and loved him, and refused to
take personally his bad disposition.

Eventually, I wore him down. He ran out of bad before I ran out of
nice (an accomplishment for us both). And eventually I'd come home and
he'd lick my hand and he got along with the family.

A lot of people are like that. If you're consistently nice to them,
they come around eventually. It can take a lot of work though, because
they reject you outright. It's usually not a personal judgement;
they're probably rejecting nearly everyone.

One of the neatest things is giving away stuff at raves. Sometimes you
see these guys standing around with an unhappy serious look on their
face. The reaction when you smile and hand them a Blo-Pop is amazing.
A big smile! Connection! And that, let me tell you, is major fun for
me :).

Sean


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 10:16:14 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 10:09:27 PDT
Subject: weekend update: basics reunion/mission rock

Mission Rock on Friday night was pretty damn cool.  Anyone over 21
should go to this party!  I wasn't too thrilled with the music, for
the most part (heavy on the disco revival), but occasionally it got
good and the crowd was pretty nice.  Cheap cover, nice location
looking over the bay - you gotta love it.

---

They say "you can never go home again."  I don't know why they say
that, but they do.  This weeks BASICS REUNION sort of brought the
point home for me.

Last summer, there was a series of parties called BASICS - the concept
was very simple: no flash, no gimmicks, just "the basics": good music,
simple light shows, and a crowd of excellent friendly people.  By and
large, these all came off spectacularly well, despite some dodgy
locations.  The vibe was always spectacular and I looked forward to
each new Basics as a "must attend" proposition.

As you can imagine, I was pretty thrilled at the thought of a Basics
Reunion.  I was doubly thrilled when the location turned out to be
less than 5 mins from my new house in San Francisco!

Maybe it was my high expectations, but I thought the party itself was
pretty weak.  We got there early to ease the parking situation and
also because we wanted to make sure we heard Spun, who told me that he
would be on fairly early.

The building was some sort of auditorium or hall on a military base,
up on a hill near the ocean.  Didn't look like much from the outside,
but that doesn't mean anything.

I walked in expecting to hear a pristine sound system, but finding a
rather boomy and ringy one.  Disappointment #2 was Spun's set -
apparently there were some technical problems with the turntables, and
Spun only played for 45 minutes.  The music afterwards was pretty
generic and unexciting, so I checked out the chill space.  This was
behind the building, in a nice open air space.  They had another DJ
setup out there.  Throughout the course of the evening, the music
outside was consistently more entertaining than the music inside.

As for the crowd, I was disappointed yet again.  True, I did see some
familiar faces from last summer's Basics, but not as many as I would
have thought.  The new faces seemed to be attached to rather young
bodies, and somewhat clueless attitudes.  My friend commented that it
seemed like the 18 year olds had been reading Time magazine and
decided how to "rave" based on that.  They acted friendly because they
heard that that's what you're supposed to do.  It seemed rather fake.

As the main room began to fill up, it became unbearably hot.  Strange,
given that the site was right near the ocean.  I guess there was
little or no ventilation.  Probably a good thing, then, that they
instituted a "No Smoking Inside" policy.  They were also providing
free water until they ran out of cups.  Due to this, I spent most of
my time outside.  This was much better, as the fresh air felt really
good.  And even though it seemed like everyone outside had a cigarette
in hand, the ample natural airflow made sure that it wasn't too hard
to breathe.

So, despite all the misgivings and disappointments, I had a really
good time.  Mainly due to the presence of some of my good friends.  I
did a lot of business actually, talking to DJs, promoters & other
musicians.  This occasionally became quite surreal as I was not
exactly in my right mind for most of the party.

It made me think hard about future parties.  I don't think I will be
going to very many Big Events any more.  I don't think the scene is as
strong as it was last summer (and despite was john s lee says, last
summer was *fantastic* from my point of view).  I guess I'll be
sticking to the smaller, cheaper, more intimate parties.

See you next week at Mission Rock!

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 10:59:32 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 10:51:10 -0800
Subject: Music Equipment

Howdy all-
I am kinda new to the list, and have questions for those who might know-
First the background.

A friend and I were working on some music when we were in school back east.
 We had access to a blinding assortment of wonderful gear- A beautiful
souped up Mac with well designed MIDI interfaces(you could actually use
them!), several nice keyboards, sampling machines, coupla mixers,
sequencers, basically everything you could dream of for making music.  We
put off doing most of what we wanted to do, and then ran out of money.  So
we moved here (SF).  Now, we really would like to get back into this, but
have nothing except a couple of kinda puny macs, and nothing else.

Now for the questions-
does anyone know where we could come by some equipment?  This being a
decent MIDI keyboard (I could probably wire up an interface if I had to)
and maybe a sampling machine.  A Moog would be great, too.  We cannot
afford to buy, but can they be rented anywhere in the area?  We would
really like to do to DAT, but an old 8-track would work, too.  Is there a
place for us?

Thanks for any info- and If we manage to get anything going, I'll keep
everyone up to date on our project.

This is probably best handled through email.
Thanks-
jamie


My company doesn't have anything to do with my opinions, nor do I
if they might cause trouble for me at some point in the future.
__________________________________________________________________
'Don't think of it as a number- think of it as a unique expression
of your individuality.'                          jamiel@sybase.com


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 11:24:15 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 14:12:12 EDT
Subject: Penelope's Web

Very few people, maybe 20, showed up. The YSH people lost a lot of
money on this.

I feel really badly about YSH losing money. They work so hard and put
on a good friendly event every Thursday for only $5. It seems unjust
that they're the ones losing money and not the moneygrubbing
confiscating uncaring for their patrons--for only $20--promoters.

I'm going to make an extra donation at the YSH door next time because
I believe in their cause and because they've treated everyone so well
every time I've been there.

                                -----
				
I wish everyone could have shown up, for it was an incredibly
beautiful site. Vivian described it better than I could. Read her
post. I was pleasantly surprised to find they had facilities such as
a nice shower (ahhhh) and kitchen.

We had a great time. Having a small number of people meant that you
got to know everyone. The atmosphere was really supportive and
friendly. The mud bath was fun :). I got some really great pictures
there of blissfully mud-covered ravers :) :). I didn't go down and
dance wearing just mud, but some people did. Sounds fun :).

If they ever hold an event there again, GO! Bring camping stuff, and
you will have the time of your life. This place is remote and
beautiful and 100% guaranteed atomic bomb bustproof. You can walk for
miles and see only nature. When they turn off the music, the forest is
so quiet you can hear your heartbeat.

It's well worth the drive. I hope they do it again, and make it a
Friday-Saturday-Sunday event. If they do, I'll go, and I can probably
provide rides for people.

Sean

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 11:30:26 1993
From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 11:20:23 -0700
Subject: Re: weekend update: basics reunion/mission rock

I went to this also, but when I walked up to the doors and the line
I had a bad feeling about it. So I stuck my head in to see what I
could hoping that the music would sound better than it did outside.
It sounded the same. And I DID NOT like the music. It had no groove
to it just straight forward BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM!!!! The crowd was
as Jon Drukman put it young and on the fake side. I really wanted
to go see Spun as well but after hearing Jon's review and Spun being
on for only 45min. well I didn't miss anything. I never went in. 
I just didn't feel the vibe there and also didn't feel like paying
$15 bucks. So me and my friend went to go check out Good times I think
thats the name and well....No offense but the majority of the crowd
was gay males and my friend and I didn't feel comfortable so we left
to go back to sanjose. It was a long night of driving and being bored.

Thats my weekend review.  :(

I don't think I will be trying any large events at all anymore.
This was my first large event in about 10 months and it just
wasn't a good feeling.





         /\                       noah@cadence.com 
        <<>>      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
    ((((noah))))  "if i can get higher than this, 
	<<>>       i don't want to know about it"---Terence McKenna   
	 \/       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 11:57:37 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (ccat)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 11:45:24 -0700
Subject: Leah's potluck - what a success!


  Bi-coastal rave diva Leah has to be thanked for having the niceness to invite
one of the largest,best collection of ravelist people possible to her Berkeley
apartment yesterday.I'm not the one to write big reviews or lists of people..but
I would venture to say that this was the ravelist indoor social event of the year.
(maybye Connection 2 was the best outdoor event...) Thanks to all the people
who traveled thousands of miles to visit us here in SF too..It's really nice
meeting all of you!!!
-Chris Beaumont
  ccat@netcom.com

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 12:03:31 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 14:52:21 EDT
Subject: Re: weekend update: basics reunion/mission rock

That's interesting because I had a long talk with the sound system guy
at Penelope's Web (can't remember his name (hi)). He's a purist and
really knows his stuff. I've always been an audiophile*, and found his
talk quite interesting. There's a lot of really bad sound system
people out there, and he talked about the priciples of room acoustics,
turntable isolation, etc. Attention to detail makes a big difference
in sound (often, one can sound better for far less money), and
apparently that was a big factor at Basics.

PW sounded really good and I was amazed at how well that funky Herbie
Hancock piece sounded. It's just about the only dance music I've heard
before on a really good stereo, so this was a chance to compare. Not
bad at all.

I couldn't help but wonder how much better Unity might have sounded
had they used him as a consultant.

Sean


* My philosophy for designing a room is first you design the acoustics
  and stereo speaker placement, then you worry about everything else.



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 12:36:28 1993
From: jon@lurnix.com (Jon Lebeck)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 12:09:40 PDT
Subject: Sound Factory...

Hi all!

     Anyone ever been to the Sound Factory (the club) in SF?  I went there
friday night and it was really cool (is it new?).  They played music that was 
better than most raves I've been to in the last year.  This place had raging 
Techno that never dropped below 130-140 bpm, laser/wall shows that were very 
well done (not as dramatic as the wherehouse raves of a couple years ago 
though), and a crowd that was completely devoid of seedy, ganglike, or 
teeny-booper types (people there just trying to get laid) -  which made for a 
very friendly and coordial crowd.  The place is very well ventilated and has 
several rooms of different kinds of  rave-y music.  I found that when a room I 
was in started getting a little to "house-y" for me (the DJ often housed up a 
set a bit to let people cool down) I'd go to another room where techno was 
creating a hard-core vibe.  The sound system was also quite good - although all 
rooms did not have sound systems of equal capibilities.  The largest room had 
speakers that, when next to, blurred my vision when the base hit (constant 
blurred vision) - I would strongly recommend ear-plugs if going to this place.

     Oh, another observation I had.  I would say close to 50-75% of the people
there weren't on anything (excluding alcohol, which I believe was sold inside)
which made for a very interesting mix of people.  People had no trouble dancing
to 130-140 bpm music - they just had to rest more often.

     I don't know what the hours of this place are, but I believe they don't
open till 12:00 a.m. - I have no idea when they close.  I stayed until
about 3:30 a.m. and it was still happening.  Price is $10.

     I think the alure of this place for me, was that the music played
reminded me of the music Garth, Jeno and Munson used to play before their
names become popular and the music they played changed.

     Anyway, that's my $.02.  This was the first time I've ever been to this
place, so I don't know if this was a fluke or the norm as far as music and
crowd.  But I'll definately be checking it out again...


                                       Jon.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 12:36:30 1993
From: zdross@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 12:11:34 -0700
Subject: Basics, Mission Rock

Well, as for most anyone who went to the previous Basics parties, I was looking
forward to the Basics reunion.  During the course of those parties I met alot
of people and made some good friends, many of whom I have seen only sporadically
since then.  It seemed that people who went to Basics parties didn't really go
to other parties at all.  So when we got to Basics Reunion, it was with great 
pleasure since many of those people were there.  I spent the first 3 hours or so
just socializing and having a great time!

Arounf 5:)
00

Around 5:00 Pete and I went on a walk to the store, and when I returned I went in
and caught the last 45 minutes or so of garth's set, which was pretty good and 
hard.  The other DJs were mostly weak, except for Tony, who played a nice Tony
set.  There is another Basics coming, this time with Jon Williams (I think)
so the music should be better next time.

All in all a great time, with lots of friendly people.  Go to the next one.


Mission Rock is very cool to go to, so check it out.  Jon's review is entirely
accurate as far as I'm concerned.  Great outdoor dancing and lots of chill space
out near the docks.  

How was the FMR?

Bye
Zak

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 13:03:26 1993
From: rslau@skat.usc.edu (Robert Lau)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 12:49:32 PDT
Subject: Re: Sound Factory...

is it in a old 3 story building near/under some freeway interchange?  when
i went (a while ago, like Nov92), they had some funkish stuff on the bottom
floor, house-ish/disco on the second, and 'hard-core' on the third.  90% of
the people were just standing around checking everybody else out, lots of
pseudo-scene types.  the laser setup on the top floor was cool but the
sound system really sucked.  i talked to the dj for a bit, can't his name,
he thought that the l.a. crowd liked hard-core more than the s.f. crowd :)
anyway, the floor was pretty sparse most of the time, he was playing pretty
cool 120+bpm stuff with no breaks.  was tres funny when mobs of people
rushed on when he played 'dominator' by human resource, remember that one
;^)

maybe i went on the wrong night, sunday?

-robert

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 13:10:08 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 12:51:19 PDT
Subject: Penelope's Web :^)

It was a long trip, but well worth it!  It actually was about 3 hours to the
map point.  From there, shuttle vans ferried everyone about 15 miles of
mostly-dirt roads to the site.

The site is beyond beautiful.  It's up in the mountains about 15 miles from
Willets, and miles from any other habitation.  There was a cleared area
for dancing, a huge garden, and lots of forest around it all.  (Also
facilities such as a kitchen, from which food came forth on several
occasions).  There was plenty of space to set up tents (of course, I
didn't actually end up *using* my tent after setting it up -- sleep,
what's that??)

This was an all-night-and-most-of-the-next-day event.
The music was great and I don't think I ever danced so much so long before.
The light show was provided mostly by the nearly-full moon and the stars. 
The vibe was of a different order from the usual, it was mingling with the
natural splendor of the place and flowing all about us in a mind-blowing
way.  

Rebecca's set in the middle of the night
caused me to dissolve into a sea of colors.

For chill-out, there was the forest, the garden, and the mud-bath!
I'd never tried that before, but it was just what I needed.

To Melissa, Bob, and everyone else who made this happen:
THANK YOU!!

                                    &Andy



From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 13:30:45 1993
From: megatest!kermit!preiter@uu2.psi.com (Pete Reiter)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 12:47:36 PDT
Subject: Basics

Basics was indeed distinctly mediocre. I think Martin has lost his magic
touch for parties of less than 2000 people. The security was overbearing
(a standard feature for Basics/Channeling/Gathering in the past few months).
The space was another military location, and it kind of bothers me seeing
camo trucks and other war machines lying around.

The music was certainly not up to par. I think Tony's set was the high point,
but unfortunately the rest of the DJs didn't come close to him and the sound
sucked (I did miss the last couple of DJs, they may have been better).

Smileback ratio was very low for a basics. The crowd was mostly young and
clueless (note that young crowds are not necessarily clueless, a year ago I
would have said that the younger crowds were more clued than the older crowds.
Now the revers seems to be true).

Zak and I bugged out at 5:30 to go for a nice long walk. It was a beautiful
morning. When we got back at 7:00 or so the woman at the front door wouldn't
let us back in. I would have expected this at 3 or 4 but by 7 in-and-out
policies are usually pretty relaxed. The in-and-out policy also changed a
couple of times during the night. I wonder what happened to the people who
left thinking they could get back in.

All-in-all I had fun, but only because I was surrounded by friends. If it hadn't
been for them I would have left pretty early on.

						Pete

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 13:43:50 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 13:31:00 PDT
Subject: Basics

peter reiter sez:

>The crowd was mostly young and clueless (note that young crowds are
>not necessarily clueless, a year ago I would have said that the
>younger crowds were more clued than the older crowds.  Now the revers
>seems to be true).

absolutely.  i hope nobody misread my original article and inferred
that i think young ravers are clueless by default...  i hold quite the
opposite view in fact.  last summer some of the best parties were
heavily populated by the under-21's and it was all for the best...
they brought an optimism and energy that was unbeatable.

Jon Drukman                                      jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 13:56:03 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 16:40:14 EDT
Subject: Leah's potluck - what a success!

Yeah it was fun. Well as fun as is possible when my mind/body is as
thrashed as it was. And I got to hear some of that haudcoah. Turns out
I have some of it on compilations, just didn't know that was what it
was called. I can dance to it... for about 5 minutes. I like the SF
housey stuff a lot more.

Sean

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 13:57:31 1993
From: louis@barra.com (Louis A. Dunne)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 13:42:31 -0700
Subject: Penelope's Web


Just wanted to say that I loved Penelope's Web; really enjoyed myself.
With just a small number of people we had a real sense of community, and
responsibility between us.  I think we all felt that each of us were in
some part responsible for making the event work.  As Sean said, with just
a few people, we got to know more people than we would normally.

Thanks to all the friendly people I spoke to, and to those who just
radiated energy and good will.  Hello to everyone I met, I'm not sure
which people are on sfraves and which aren't.  All day Sunday was
great: mudbaths, lounging in the shade...

Music really picked up in the middle of the night, when I heard the end of
Rebecca's set and I liked Thomas' stuff too, and we also had a new starter
Arzo.

The site was beautiful, which was described perfectly by Vivian, who I
think was one of the two girls who gave us a ride down in their pick-up
(thanks), sorry if I'm wrong on this.  Even driving down the road was
beautiful.  We lay in the back of the pick-up, and stared at the sky.
There were a few wispy clouds in the sky, and we turned back and forward
and streaks of clouds spun and danced (all without chemical inducement I
might add!).

Well done Bob, Melissa and all who helped out.  I've never made it to
YSH yet, but now that I've seen the energy that the YSH people put into
these things, I'm definatley going on Thursday.  Overall it was a really
positive experience.

Louis

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Louis A. Dunne    |  BARRA, Inc.                |  louis@barra.com
VMS/UNIX Systems  |  1995 University Ave, #400  |  Ph:  (510) 649-4229
S/W Engineering   |  Berkeley, CA 94704         |  Fax: (510) 548-4374

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 14:16:06 1993
From: Jeffrey Moore <jmoore@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 2 Aug 1993 14:00:36 -0700
Subject: Re:  Music Equipment

Well, if you have a mac I recommend getting some kind of digital audio card.
You can get an Audiomedia used for under $700.  Then all you need is Deck
(which I have been working on for the past year).  Deck gives you four
tracks of digital audio and full playlist editing as well as automation.  If
you combine this with a sequencer and just a few synths, you can do all
sorts of wonderful things.

-Jeff
jmoore@well.sf.ca.us


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 14:17:15 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 16:59:21 EDT
Subject: Basics

If they're clueless, then let's give them some clue :). Smile at em
and welcome them. They're our future.

Sean

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 14:28:31 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 14:18:18 PDT
Subject: Re:  Music Equipment

Jeffrey Moore sez:
> 
> Well, if you have a mac I recommend getting some kind of digital audio card.
> You can get an Audiomedia used for under $700.  Then all you need is Deck

Yes, and you can get a new MediaVision for under $400 :-)

(Pro Audio Spectrum 16 mail order is ~375 buxx.)

-H-




-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
		Love the music... it will love you back.
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 14:38:12 1993
From: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Date: 02 Aug 1993 14:28:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Music Equipment

On the synth side, the all-time bargain has to be the Kawai series of Midi
  boxes (also available with keyboards)

You can get a box with tons of sounds (orchestra, synth, percussion) for 
  about $250.

They're available everywhere (even at Guitar center)

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 14:40:43 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 14:27:56 PDT
Subject: Re:  Music Equipment

Jamie Lawrence sez:
> 
> >
> >Yes, and you can get a new MediaVision for under $400 :-)
> >
> >(Pro Audio Spectrum 16 mail order is ~375 buxx.)
> >
> >-H-
> >
> 
> Does the audio spectrum card handle
> -MIDI in

I'm not sure, I believe so... Any software you use that you don't
write yourself (and hopefully the stuff you do write yourself) should
use the MIDI manager anyway so it doesn't really matter whether or not
the card does, unless it uses some poorly written SW.  MIDI interfaces
are (relatively) cheap.

> -at least 16bit stereo out?
> 

Yes.

-H-




-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
		Love the music... it will love you back.
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 14:42:10 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 14:25:30 -0800
Subject: Re:  Music Equipment

At  2:18 PM 8/2/93 -0700, Howard Berkey wrote:
>Jeffrey Moore sez:
>> 
>> Well, if you have a mac I recommend getting some kind of digital audio card.
>> You can get an Audiomedia used for under $700.  Then all you need is Deck
>
>Yes, and you can get a new MediaVision for under $400 :-)
>
>(Pro Audio Spectrum 16 mail order is ~375 buxx.)
>
>-H-
>

Does the audio spectrum card handle
-MIDI in
-at least 16bit stereo out?


My company doesn't have anything to do with my opinions, nor do I
if they might cause trouble for me at some point in the future.
__________________________________________________________________
'Don't think of it as a number- think of it as a unique expression
of your individuality.'                          jamiel@sybase.com


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 14:59:24 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 14:50:00 PDT
Subject: Re: Music Equipment

SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com sez:
> 
> On the synth side, the all-time bargain has to be the Kawai series of Midi
>   boxes (also available with keyboards)
> 
> You can get a box with tons of sounds (orchestra, synth, percussion) for 
>   about $250.
> 
> They're available everywhere (even at Guitar center)
> 

My favorite Muzak Bahgan has to be either an Ensoniq ESQ-1 (for its
general quality and ease of programming) or a Korg DW-8000 (for its
nice buzzy sounds or its cool goofy arpeggiator :-)

Both can be had for around $400.

(and to think I spent $1300 on my ESQ-1 in 1989...)

Guitar effects boxes are also great, especially if they have MIDI in.

The ART SGE is a pretty good deal.

-H-




-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						   howard@netcom.com
		Love the music... it will love you back.
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 15:48:25 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 15:32:13 PDT
Subject: Penelope's Web


well, here's my thoughts:

i'll let what other people have wrote speak for itself as far as the
site is concerned.  basically (no hype here) it's the most beautiful
spot i think any event will ever be held in.  i would drive up there
every other weekend just to hang out, if i had the option.  the site
itself is quite large, and is totally bordered by land owned by the
same person and his friends.  the music didn't disturb or disrupt
anyone, which was really great, even though the sound system ran for
about 20 hours full tilt non stop.

it really ** is ** a 3 hour drive to the site.  i spent 2 hrs 40 mins
on the road in a really battered pickup, with 2 stops, to get to the
map/shuttle point.  others reported 2 hrs 10 mins and also times
closer to 3 hrs.  willets is 125 miles north of the golden gate.  101
narrows down to one lane in willets, but 99% of the drive to the
shuttle point is 3 or 2 lane highway.  the shuttle point is 15 miles /
25 minutes from the site. 

the event could have started friday night, but traffic up there is bad
leaving the city friday afternoon, and we didn't want people driving
late in the night on friday.  personally i think the saturday start
time and sunday end times were pretty much perfect.

fyi, your sister's house took NO financial interest in this event
whatsoever.  one nation productions took 100% of the financial risk,
and lost $1100.  we're not sure what we are going to do about the $$
lost... one financial partner lost their rent money :-( so we're
dealing with that.  (sean, and others, if you feel moved to donate,
that's cool, but you should give the $$ to me or Melissa or Jamie or
Rene' or Peace, not to YSH.  please don't consider this a grovel for
funds, we just really appreciated you taking the time to come up and
be with us and enjoy the space with us.)  a few YSH people were
individually involved with the event, and they really hooked us up
with their DJs, which was insanely cool and VERY appreciated.

things offered to all guests:

food (rice and beans for dinner, pancakes and eggs for breakfast)
grill (if people brought their own stuff)
unlimited water
camping space (either near other people or away from others)
outdoor toilet and shower facilities
mud bath / pit (this was a LOT of fun)
impromptu side trip to the river to swim on Sunday
18 hours of music from 9 PM until 3 PM and the system sounded great!
  (Harry from Primary Sound did an incredible job for an outdoor setup)
many excellent DJs who were inspired by the site
a beautiful garden / ultimate chill space
lotsa trees an' plants an' leaves an' shit
visuals by mothers nature and earth
absolutely 100% all natural pure bust-free vibe

i REALLY want to see another event up there, but we need support and
help to make it happen.  to be honest, we lost enough money that we're
financially incapable of throwing another event there --- even if we
KNEW that we could break even, we can't put the funds together to make
it happen.

after adding everything up, and figuring out where we could cut
corners, we could throw another event for 100 people for roughly $1200
in costs.  the biggest cost is renting passenger vans to shuttle
people from the map point --- which is essential as a) it's easy to
get lost in the mountains b) the roads are horrible and you wouldn't
want to drive your car up there if you could help it and c) parking is
VERY limited and discouraged by the land owner.

i'd like to see the next event be another net.rave, with help from
SFRaves, Your Sister's House and One Nation Productions.  i'd also
like to see the work at the site shared -- having everyone volunteer
to work a couple of hours doing something (security, cooking food,
hanging out at the shuttle point, set up / break down, et al) so that
all of us can enjoy the event.

i personally thought that the women DJs did a phenomenal job, but if
people would be into it, we could easily get some "name" DJs to the
event -- Carlos, Dutch and Tony all expressed interest in spinning at
Penelope's Web.

i also personally loved interacting with nature, and didn't need any
visuals to get off.  however, we could easily add visuals to the mix.

the big caveat in all of this is that we'd need some serious
committment from people to make it happen.

so, in the grand net.tradition, straw poll time.  the tenative working
name for this event is RENEWAL.  (Brian, howzabout Connection III?)
the working date is saturday august 28th.  this event would be very
similar to penelope's web in terms of structure and what would be
provided.  the tenative cost per person is $12 advance, $15 at the
shuttle point.  transport up and back from SF would probably be
available for roughly $8 (advance only, used to cover additional van
rental costs).  the event would only be promoted on the net and
through your sister's house.

please send email to 'renewal-yes%groovy@us.oracle.com' if you would
definitely go to this event.  indicate if you would be interested in
advance ticket(s) and how many.  also indicate if you would be
interested in the van pool.

please send email to 'renewal-no%groovy@us.oracle.com' if you would
not go and would like to explain why (with the idea that maybe we can
make the event better for everyone by 'fixing' the problem(s)).

to make things clear, any 'profits' would go to one nation productions
to either a) continue to defray the debt from penelope's web or b) act
as seed money for future events, possibly including a free golden gate
park rave.

if there's a good response to renewal-yes, this thing will happen.

(i'm going to get you all to go up there and have a fantastic time if
i have to drag each one of you up there on my back!)

Bob





From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 16:54:36 1993
From: jon@lurnix.com (Jon Lebeck)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 15:22:02 PDT
Subject: More about Sound Factory...

Hello again!

    I got so many replies to my original posting about the Sound factory, that
I figured I might as well have follow-up posting.

    There are a few things you need to keep in mind about this place (little
things that I noticed):

1) I don't know which nights to go are best.  The guy I went with recommended
   Friday nights - which is when I went.

2) This place doesn't really start to fill up until around 2 a.m. - I guess
   that's when other places close, or people get their second wind, or
   something.  When I got there around 1-1:30 a.m. Saturday morning there was
   a fair amount of empty dance space, but when I left at ~3:30 a.m. it was
   pretty crowded.

3) At about 2:30 a.m. the music was cranked up to the point where I could
   feel my innerds vibrating when near the speaker.  Before that point, though,
   the music was moderately loud (couldn't really "feel" the music).

4) There are multiple floors at this place (at least 2).  I don't know much
   about the other floor(s) - I went (more like *ran*) upstairs when I heard
   the faster, more driving music - thus ignoring the music elsewhere. 

I've only been there once, so I don't know what the norm is for this place,
but there must be other people out there who have been to this place recently
and can add some more input.

                        Hope this helps...

                                  Jon.

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 17:04:05 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 16:54:30 PDT
Subject: GG Park report


I have received donations from the following people:

Larry Ching
Arthur Chandler
Eric Pederson
Ti Fred
Derek Chung
Ravi Gadhia

I will not cash any checks until the permit is approved.

Total so far = $140.

I have October 3rd reserved for us.  Sorry, but Marx Meadows
was booked for Aug & Sept.

- leg of eel

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 17:37:55 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 17:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Music Equipment


> >> Well, if you have a mac I recommend getting some kind of digital audio card.
> >> You can get an Audiomedia used for under $700.  Then all you need is Deck
> >
> >Yes, and you can get a new MediaVision for under $400 :-)
> >
> >(Pro Audio Spectrum 16 mail order is ~375 buxx.)

Can both the MediaVision and ProAudioSpectrum16 be used with a mac?  How
do they compare with the Audiomedia and with each other?  I've been
trying to find a way to get 16 bit sampling on the mac for under $700.
Thanks for any info! (send private email if this does not seem relevant to
sfraves) 

///////{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<<acid232dica>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\


From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 18:12:12 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 18:08:39 PDT
Subject: Re: Music Equipment

Seth Joshua Horvitz sez:
> > >
> > >Yes, and you can get a new MediaVision for under $400 :-)
> > >
> > >(Pro Audio Spectrum 16 mail order is ~375 buxx.)
> 
> Can both the MediaVision and ProAudioSpectrum16 be used with a mac?  How
> do they compare with the Audiomedia and with each other?  I've been
> trying to find a way to get 16 bit sampling on the mac for under $700.
> Thanks for any info! (send private email if this does not seem relevant to
> sfraves) 
> 

The PAS 16 is a NuBus card made by MediaVision... there isn't 2
separate cards.  It's ~$375 for a Mac and significantly cheaper for a
PC.   (Of course, the Mac has sound/sample edit/etc software far
superior to what's around for a PC but that prolly won't last.)

I'm not overly familiar with the AudioMedia card but I believe Jon and
Mike are.  They could probably describe it's strengths and weaknesses
a lot better than I could.

-H-


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey 						           DoD# 0944
		   Love the music... it will love you back.
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 19:03:13 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 18:55:54 PDT
Subject: A Recent Flyer

I was given this flyer at Basics.  I thought I'd share it with you all.
Imagine this in Olde English typestyle :)

Any spelling errors are, of course, those of your humble scribe.

FYI: Fogtown is a local name for San Francisco.

Obligatory Disclaimer:  I have no association with any persons or
organizations mentioned in this transcript. This is provided for  your
information only. Copied without permission.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Code of the Fogtown Raver:
1) Don't drink alcohol
2) Don't smoke tobacco
3) Don't sell drugs or your body
4) Don't take hard drugs (speed, steroids, cocaine, heroine, or PCP)
   Huggy drugs are O.K.!
5) Work out regularly at your friendly neighborhood gym

Distinguishing Characteristics of a Fogtown Raver:
1) Tend to think and act spontaneously rather than on fears based on
   past experience
2) Unmistakable ability to enjoy each moment
3) Loss of interest in judging other people
4) Lost of interest in interpreting the actions of others
5) Loss of ability to worryy
6) Frequent, overwhelming episodes of appreciation
7) Contented feelings of connectedness with others and nature
8) Frequent attacks of smiling
9) An increased susceptibility to the love extended by others as well
   as the uncontrollable urge to extend love

                      ATOMIC ROOSTER
Tickets for Atomic Rooster, Friday, August 27th at 11:00p.m. (after Grateful
Dead's Shoreline Amphitheater concert) are now available.  Atomic Rooster
is Northern California's first all digital, Surround Sound system rave.
Tickets are $20 each.  Please send a U.S.Post Office Money Order or an
American Express Money Order only (absolutely no cash or checks), made
payable to "M.O'Brien Healing Fund."  Also enclose a 3"x5" index card
with your full name, telephone number and address, along with a stamped,
self-addressed envelope and mail to: Atomic Rooster Tickets, c/o
M.O'Brien Healing Fund, #117, 1388 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94112.
Until then, make sure to carry your Money Order receipt with you at raves
to be entitled to special Atomic Rooster promotional give-aways!
Thank you very much for your cooperation and remember to keep in touch.
   No Age Limit, No Alcohol, No Tobacco, No Speed, No Weapons, No
   Fireworks, No Attitude!

                      (over)

The Dance Music Authority Magazine Challenge:
     "This shouldn't be an excuse for the greedy to line their pockets, but
it should be a true effort by the community to write better songs, come
up with fresh production methods and develop and invest in real projects
with real talent == then see them through to the end." 
                                   _Freestyle File_, David Sanches, July '93

Fogtown Raver's Response:


                            W A N T E D !

1) Original songs and traditional/computer artwork (suggested artwork theme:
healing and Celtic folklore) for a benefit house music compilation Compact
Disc-Interactive/Video (Deadline September 1st). Video Toaster/Computer
Art may be submitted in any format disc/video tape.  Twenty 5"x5" art 
covers will be selected for a 4-color, glossy fold-out to accompany the
C.D.-I/Video.

2) D.J. mix tapes and cassette cover artwork for a promotional cassette
("Fogtown Posse '92, Volume 1") to be distributed at the International D.J.
Expo (this year's theme: "Raving in Hollywood"), Monday, August 23rd to
Thursday, August 26th at the Universal City Hilton & Towers, Los Angeles
(Expo Hotline 516-767-2500). (Deadline August 16th) Nine D.J.'s will
each have a 29 minute set =  three 90-minute cassettes.

3) Ravers interested in sharing rides to and rooms at the '93 Internation
D.J. Expo.  Rooms at the Universal City Hilton and Towers are available at
a discount for $97/night if you mention the International D.J. Expo when
making reservations (800-727-7110).

4) Contributors to an independently-audited non-profit charity board called
"The Rave Foundation" (a California non-profit corporation modeled after the
Grateful Dead's "Rex Foundation"), where 100% of the donations will be
distributed according to a majority vote of the Board of Directors (no
deductions whatsoever for administrative costs).  Lawyers, Accountants,
Fund Raisers, Techies and Promoters are especially encouraged to participate.
Artists please submit artwork for "The Rave Foundation" logo.

5) Compact Disc Jockeys (no vinyl) for the Atomic Rooster rave.  Please submit
a tape of your best digital mixing in both dance and trance/ambient styles.

Please respond to Cello Records, #13, 1827 Haight Street, Fogtown 94117

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Bryce Ryan -- Specializing in AMBIANCE -- brycer@netcom.com
"The revolution will not be televised, 
 but the proceedings will be available online."  Art McGee

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 19:46:49 1993
From: Dana Watanabe <dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 19:37:18 PDT
Subject: FMR stuff

my brain isnt together so i know im goign to miss something
but i really ewant to post something whiel my short term memory might possibly exist still

well i got in sf around 4 and hung out at casa de uvc
listening to some good music til we headed over to leahs "smalL" *AHEM*
little bbq which aside from me being unconscoius and not wnating to move much
was a very fun time

from there every headed off to home and later to point reyes where the 
moon shining over the water of the ocean is probably a sight that will stick
in my mind til a few years after im dead
although there were some problems it looked like one hell of a party
until it was made not so by at least 2 ranger trucks, 4 chp cars and 
one county sherriff

but i would like to definitely thank brian for picking a beautiful sight
that was quite enjoyable while it lasted
(id also liek to thank him for dragging me there and back)

(quick side note, NEVER, NEVER decide that it would be cute to 
lay out a sleepign bag in the back of a truck, jeep, blazer, etc
and lie down for a bit at rave where you actually plan on getting up)

anyhow.. when things got moved to the berkeley marina it was great
i dont know what gg park is like, but as far as a san diego sunday in teh park
type deal.. a monday at the marina was wonderful
if i left with the ne-raves zoo after that, the trip would have been more than 
worth it
i would REALLY REALLY like to thank who ever foudn that location
because they made one hell of  party go off, albeit a few hours
late, but one hell of a party nonetheless
it was beautiful, even though my body was screaming at me to stop dancing
i was much too happy and the music just filled me and made me work
my body into some unhealthy physical but spiritually fulfilled state

i dont think im going home quite yet, but if i did
it would be worth the plane ticket up and back

 ,
dana

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 19:48:13 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 19:40:00 -0700
Subject: Basics

  I've been reading all these negative posts regarding Basics, so I just
had to post my opinion which is completely different. I hung out most of 
the time near the dj booth. Actually just a little bit back as I don't
like to be out in front of the dancers but completely surrounded by them.
I had a fantastic time and so did my sister. The people that were around
me most of the night were very friendly and fun to dance with. There was
omly one person who "bugged me". I was sitting on the floor behind the
dj booth chilling out and this guy kept sticking his face in my face and
making bug eyes at me and saying wierd stuff like "Do you practice Voodoo?"
I was sitting there minding my own business and trancing out on the music
with my eyes closed and I would feel his presence and open my eyes and he
was right in my face. Really bothered me. Then my sister saw what was 
going on and told him to bug off, that I just wanted to be left alone and
chill. That was the only negative thing I can say about the night. Sure
it WAS hot but actually sometimes I really enjoy being hot and sweaty and
dancing, dancing, dancing. Maybe the sound system wasn't as good as other
Basics but I still had a great time and saw alot of familiar faces.
And... I didn't think the music was that bad. Especially early in the 
morning. The energy was incredible. Maybe people that didn't have as good
of a time didn't hang out in the right place.

Rox

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 20:31:10 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 20:22:06 PDT
Subject: Cool Baby


A Short Report On Elizabet(h) And Child:

 Almost-mommy and proto-raver are both doing well. Both of them got 
to cool off Sunday - I called Elizabeth yesterday afternoon ,just as they 
were about to go to a friend's swimming pool ( ooh! ). 

 The big due date is this week - so let's wish her a lot of luck ,
and send her all the best vibes!

			Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

-- 

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Mon Aug  2 20:45:43 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 20:36:43 PDT
Subject: More on Basics

Well, here's my $0.02 worth:

I had a really good time at Basics.  Due to some timing considerations
(a child who had to go to sleep), Ethan, Pete and I headed out
to Basics fairly early, like around 10:30 or so.  I was mystified by
the location directions, since I'm fairly familiar with the area, and
had never noticed a suitable location near the SF zoo, but we followed
the directions, and I found myself at a National Guard Armory.  Sirens
were going off in my head, since I had been to a very unpleasant party
at an armory in San Mateo (it shall remain nameless).  But, I was with
friends, and there was Brian directing parking, so I let go my fears,
and decided to go with it.  We got flyered by a 5 year old (very nice little
boy).  We also talked with someone who said, "Man, I don't think this
party is gonna happen.  It's empty."  To which Pete said, "It's early,
you know.  They'll come."

When I got inside, ye olde sound system was booming away, and the place
was EMPTY, and i mean _E_M_P_T_Y_. Imagine a huge cavern with maybe 20
people total.  Wowzee.  I knew what the guy was saying.  It seemed like
it would be really hard to fill up the space.  But, I was still with
friends, and let it go.  We spent a lot of time exploring the nooks and 
crannies, and finally happened on the chill out area, which was outside,
a much smaller space, and definitely not so fiercely empty.  We spent
a lot of time shuttling in and out, till finally when we came back in
once, the place had really gotten a sizable crowd (maybe 150), and i
started feeling a vibe of some sort.  The music started picking up, and
so did I, so I danced for a while, and then went out for another chill.
This time, when I went back out and came back in, it was really swinging,
and there were people everywhere.

I left for a little while with a friend (they were being friendly at the
door I guess), and getting back in was no problem - it must have been 
around 2:30, 3:00, i guess.  Markie was doing a sonic bass set, which i
wasn't really into, so i went out to the chill area, and socialized (heavily)
and then Fluid caught me up and brought me to the SFR posse.  The chill
DJ was playing some fine dancy tunes, and people were grooving, and I
was meeting all you fine net.ravers, and had a fine time.

I went back in to find Ethan and Pete, and caught up with them, and all
was more fun.  The morning ambient set in the chill area was really pleasant.

All in all, it was really unusual for me to do a rave from start to near-
finish (i left around 7), to see the party build and crescendo and diminish.
I wasn't overly happy with the sound system--there was a nasty echo off a
very flat rear wall that was exactly 1/3 beat behind the main stacks, that 
constantly jarred me, especially since it was augmenting the hi frequencies.
The visuals were pretty good, though i did hear a few complaints about the
ants.  I liked the laser on the main mural, and wanted to have seen more
of it, and earlier in the evening.  Overall, i thought that security was
pretty mellow.  It was nothing compared to the presence i felt at LA
ToGather or the nameless San Mateo rave mentioned above.

It would have been nice to have had a larger chill area, and with a view.
Normally, I get really claustrophobic/uncomfortable in large crowds, but
I was OK with this one.  I did spend a fair amount of time beaming rays
from my luv phaser at the crowd, and got a lot of smile back from those
who noticed.  I also appreciated the no smoking policy in the main room, 
which was, for the most part, observed.  I was mildly annoyed at all the
litter, but, ah well.  I made a coupla sweeps through the crowd picking
up stuff from the floor.  

One suggestion for future raves is ash cans.  I know many don't want
to acknowledge it, but many ravers (myself included) do smoke tobacco,
and we'd all be much better off placing as many ash cans as trash cans.
Less litter for all concerned in the long run.  There was one, tiny little
ashtray in the chill area, which was quickly filled with litter.  Not
enough for that many people.  

Not the best rave in my life, but I had a good time, met lots of friends, 
and made some new ones.  I'd go to another Basics.
-- 
Bryce Ryan -- Specializing in AMBIANCE -- brycer@netcom.com
"The revolution will not be televised, 
 but the proceedings will be available online."  Art McGee

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Aug  3 01:04:26 1993
From: zephirus@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 93 00:54:38 -0700
Subject: Basics


     My attorney and I were doing a little night fishing off
the Capitola wharf when we decided we should check out
Basics. So we head to Taqueria Vayarta and go back  to his
place to clean up. When I emerged form the shower I found
him half way through a bottle of Scotch and well into a
container of Tylenol-4. I said 'I thought we were going
raving.' And he mumbled something about an upset stomach.
I'll bet. So I haul my ass up to city leaving my attorney at
a motel in Pacifica to drool on his vegetarian burrito -
this being 2:30am or there abouts. Smooth ride, no traffic,
up hill, into Basics Reunion.
     This was a bad place to be alone. It was so big that I
am sure cool people lurked about but I could not distinguish
who they were. Saw some friends who I've had a bit of a
'falling out with.' Not a good scene. I will spare the
details but what entailed can scarcely be described as an
experience promoting unity, family, etc. But what can one
do? For personal reasons Basics sucked hard core. That is to
say, if you can imagine a thirsty chimpanzee, an unflushed
toilet,  a large unrefrigerated pickle, and a sexually
frustrated film maker named Barney, you will get some sense
of my experience at Basics. That is to say I left with a bad
taste in my mouth...
 
                         -z

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Aug  3 01:25:36 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 01:18:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Basics

        Before I make my post about the long, long LONG weekend for me,
I want to say that when you post reviews of raves, you really should
try and refrain from bringing outside influences to play.  I mean, sure,
it can definitely have an effect on your experience, but it's not fair to
the people putting on the party nor to the people who didn't get to go
but wanted to hear how it was.  It's like someone reviewing a movie and
dissing it because the popcorn in the lobby was stale.

	I could go on but you get the idea.

	Brian

From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU  Tue Aug  3 03:45:11 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 93 05:22:58 CDT
Subject: Chicago FMR review

:)
that says it all.

--Kurt
(will send more later, just exausted right now)

