From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  2 13:39:29 1993
From: Franklin Shotwell <shotwell@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1993 13:30:14
Subject: Nineteen Thousand Beats tonight
Status: 


	Lee An is going to to be in charge of laying down the beats
tonight on KALX -- sortof a warmup for GGP tomorrow.
	Same time, same place as ever :

		Sat night/   1:00-      KALX berkeley
		Sun morning   3:30AM       90.7 fm

	Listen up on your various ways to and fro.

	(minor		shotwell@ocf.berkeley.edu
	 minor)		shotwell@dec-1.ce.berkeley.edu



From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  2 14:54:09 1993
From: hitman@citrus.SAC.CA.US ( Hedger Lee )
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1993 13:34:35 -0800 (PDT)
Subject: test
Status: 

testing of outgoing mail.. and need rides to sfraves..
reply to email to hitman@citrus.sac.ca.us

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  2 16:39:24 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 93 16:38:50 -0700
Subject: CALL FOR HELP-A CHALLENGE (Malachy-net-empowerment)
Status: 

A very dear friend of the San Francisco house scene and one of the 
founders of the incredible journey we call the Full Moon Raves was injured 
seriously several months ago in a terrible car accident.The accident
partially severed our friend,Malachy's spine and he is now confined to a
wheelchair.He has
lost the use of his hands,for the most part,but his motor function is slowly
returning.Soon he will be getting a computer,a Macintosh 660AV with voice
control, and will be joining us here on the net.This is a call for ideas    
and suggestions that will enable and empower him to join us and be able to
explore and expand his horizons through cyberspace.We need:

1.) Mac and net savvy people who have ideas that could help Malachy (our
friend)
customize his voice controller software specifically to allow net access.

2.) Software resources that might be particularly adaptable to his situation.
(not much hand and finger control,but full use of his eyes and voice,as well
as his mouth.)

3.) Knowledge of net and corporate resources that would be able to help Mal.
Organizations that specifically help the disabled with computers.etc.Trainers!
Obviously-
there is no need to reinvent the wheel..Such software probably already exists
or is being developed.We need to get Mal into any beta-testing programs.
He doesnt have any computer experience,really,but he's an incredibly 
intelligent person..and we should look at this as a exciting challenge.....
We owe him a huge debt just for bringing us the huge amount of joy he has over
the years...(At least us here in the Bay Area) Many of you must have heard
of the three benefits that people here in California had for him.
(Definitey the best events of the last year here in SF.)

He will be online with an email address of his own soon within a few weeks,but
until then Im hoping to collect information for him.Please mail it to me
at the address ccat@casa.stanford.edu 

His hardware configuration will be
as follows: Centris 660AV with AV monitor and TV camera.high speed modem...
Unix account,probably not SLIP,initially,but maybye later on.
There will also be a need for teacher/helpers.. so if you feel like you
could spare a bit of your time.and you live near Berkeley.by all means,get in
touch! Malachy is a real gem of a person and he is specifically asking for
our,the net-ravers help.

-Chris
ccat@casa.stanford.edu


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  2 18:25:24 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 2 Oct 1993 18:25:01 -0700
Subject: Boogie Buffet 10/3 lineup
Status: 

Boogie Room: Raphael, John Howard, Rick Preston
Buffet Room: Julius, Ernie Munson, Neon Leon

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  2 19:56:36 1993
From: (Chris.Hilker) <cspot@cats.ucsc.edu>
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 93 19:56:29 +45722824
Subject: Ride to Park from Scruz?
Status: 

Well, my friend decided not to go to the park tomorrow, leaving me
with no way of getting there. If anybody in the Santa Cruz area is
going and has room for one more, please contact me, either by phone
or email. I really don't want to miss this.

C.

(408) 423.9266

--
(chris.hilker) cspot@cats.ucsc.edu

"If spiders were in control, we wouldn't need nuclear weapons."

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct  3 08:46:23 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 93 8:39:33 PDT
Subject: Re: Connection Earth - final points
Status: 

Well, It's 8:30am and although the weather is damp, everything
is still a go.  I spoke to the park officials and rangers
yesterday and was reassured that It would have to be raining
hard for them to cancel our event.  The rangers said that they
have "never thrown anyone out of the park."  I don't know what
the deal was with the Elmo cancellation, but I am optimistic
that Connection Earth will happen as planned.  Any changes will
be put on the Fluid Groove line - 415.487.8497
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct  3 11:52:36 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1993 11:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: orb tik @ ameba
Status: 

 At the Warfield Fri oct 15 1993 10:00pm
 ,,,,the ORB,,,,,

general admission ,  $20.00

tickets @ AMEBA  1732 Haight St.

yes they've arrived 

salutations
allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct  3 12:31:31 1993
From: rberger@internex.net (Robert Berger)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 93 12:26:28 PDT
Subject: Resources for Malachy-net-empowerment and Handicapped computerists in
Status: 

Try the World Institute on Disablity Janina Sajka WIDNet Project Manager
510 Sixteenth St., Suite 100
Oakland, CA 94612-1502
Voice 510-763-4100
FAX 510-763-4109

Disabilities Served:  All disabilities.

Users Served:  Disabled persons and their families,
government agencies, legislative bodies, disability
organizations, centers for independent living, media,
international visitors.

The Organization:  The World Institute on Disability (WID)
is a public policy institute seeking solutions to major
problems faced by people of all ages with disabilities.
It was founded in 1983 by disabled people who have
extensive personal and professional knowledge of
disability-related issues and who were among the founders
of the independent living movement.  WID has focused on
areas that have significant impact on the basic human
rights and needs of disabled individuals.  There areas
include public education, service systems consultation,
and national and international development of independent
living.

------
"The Macintosh and Disability Access," prepared by Jane Berliss and Alan
Brightman, SYLLABUS, P.O. Box 2716, Sunnyvale, CA  94087-0716, Summer
1992, Number 23; 408-773-0670; Internet: syllabus@applelink.apple.com.

It is estimated that one out of every five U.S. citizens is physically
or mentally disabled. Can technology help bring them into the
mainstream? Perhaps, but only if these individuals have access to
computers and other equipment. "The Macintosh and Disability Access"
describes the role of technology in disability access, Project EASI
(Equal Access to Software for Instruction), an outgrowth of EDUCOM's
Educational Uses of Information Technology (EUIT) program, as well as
operating-system features for people with disabilities.

Filename Filetype: DISABLED BERLIS_J CCNEWS

-----------
Name=Electronic Rehabilitation Resource Center (St. John's                      
University)                                                                     
Type=1                                                                          
Port=70                                                                         
Path=1/menu/@uni:go4itsd.unite                                                  
Host=sjumusic.stjohns.edu                                                       
                                                                                
Name=Disability Information (University of Maryland)                            
Type=1                                                                          
Port=901                                                                        
Path=1/info/ReadingRoom/Disability                                              
Host=info.umd.edu                                                               
                                                                                
Name=Cornucopia of Disability Information                                       
Type=1                                                                          
Port=70                                                                         
Path=                                                                           
Host=val-dor.cc.buffalo.edu                                                     
------------
CODI Cornucopia of Disability Information gopher: val-dor.cc.buffalo.edu 70

 CODI is a gopher, intended to serve as a community resource for 
     consumers and professionals by providing, via the Internet, disability 
     related information in a wide variety of areas. The information 
     addresses university (SUNY @ Buffalo), local (Buffalo & WNY), state, 
     national and international audiences. Its contents are determined 
     by these communities; their submissions and suggestions are welcome.

   Currently, the material is accessible via 21 main menu items. This
     article, 'About the Cornucopia of Disability Information', is the
     first menu item. 

---------
>Computer-Disability News
Computer-disability news.  Quarterly.  $15/year, $18/year
     international.  National Easter Seal Society, 70 East Lake
     Street, Chicago, IL  60601.  Telephone: (312) 726-6200, ext.
     143.
--------
From:   IN%"VFOAO073@VAX.CSUN.EDU"  "Harry Murphy"  6-JUL-1993 23:52:58.87
Subj:   CSUN Conference
 
                        CALL FOR PARTICIPATION
 
California State University, Northridge (CSUN).  A Call for
Participation has been issued for the Ninth Annual, International
Conference, "Technology and Persons with Disabilities," to be held
at the Los Angeles Airport Marriott Hotel, March 16-19, 1994.
 
Papers are solicited across all disabilities and age groups.
Practical applications of technology, research findings, and 
reports of innovative projects are encouraged.
 
There will be special sessions in these areas:  Virtual Reality
and The Electronic Highway.  For the past three years, CSUN has
included sessions on Virtual Reality in its March conference.  In
June of 1993 CSUN also conducted a special meeting on Virtual Reality
and Persons with Disabilities that drew 300 people to SF.  The
Electronic HIghway is the coming together of telephone, cable,
video, computer, and other media into an interactive medium.
For both Virtual Reality and The Electronic Highway, papers are
solicited which deal with access, applications, and employment
issues.
 
An "Invitation to Exhibit" has also been issued.  About 140
exhibit stations in 23,000 square feet of space will be a part of
the March, 1994 conference.  As of July 1, 1993, there are 18 exhibit
booths left for the March, 1994 conference.
 
CSUN's March, 1993 conference drew more than 2,000 persons from
almost every state and 25 foreign countries, 250 speakers and 120
exhibitors.
 
For information:
 
Dr. Harry Murphy
Founder and Director
CENTER ON DISABILITIES
California State University, Northridge
18111 Nordhoff Street - DVSS
Northridge, CA 91330
Phone: 818 885 2578 V/TDD
FAX:   818 885 4929  
EMAIL: VR@VAX.CSUN.EDU 
 
                           CALENDAR ITEM
 
Second Annual Virtual Reality and Persons with Disabilities
conference, sponsored by CSUN's CENTER ON DISABILITIES, June 9-10,
1994, San Francisco Airport Marriott Hotel.

-----------
[This one may be too far out (physically) but its an interesting pointer]

THE FIRST NORDIC CONFERENCE ON VIRTUAL REALITY AND DISABILITY
25 and 26 October 1993

Place: Electrum Conference Center, Isafjordsgatan 22, KISTA, Sweden

Stockholm University
Department of Education
S-106 91 STOCKHOLM, Sweden
+46 8 16 31 47
+46 8 15 83 54 (Telefax)

J{mtl{ndsk Talkonsult
Metarv{gen 11
S-153 35 J[RNA, Sweden
+46 8 551 701 66
+46 8 551 739 38 (Telefax)

-------------------------

Some mailing lists:

DISRES-L@RYERSON   Disability Research List 
L-HCAP@NDSUVM1     Handicap Digest          

Robert J. Berger
InterNex Information Services, Inc.
1050 Chestnut Street Suite 202, Menlo Park, CA 94025
Voice: 415-473-3060 Fax: 415-473-3062
rberger@internex.net



From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct  3 12:39:40 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1993 12:39:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: orb is cash only
Status: 

orb is cash only


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct  3 15:26:03 1993
From: "Weitzman Catherine" <UCWEITZM@emubus.bus.emory.edu>
Date: 3 Oct 93 18:25:00 EST
Subject: What to do this weekend?
Status: 

Was just wondering what was going on this wonderful weekend(oct8&9). I will be visiting from Atlanta and am hoping for something very stimulating. Please reply


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct  3 20:53:00 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 93 20:48:04 PDT
Subject: Connection Earth
Status: 


	Every now and then, when I think that the Scene is really bad,
when I think that it is dead, it's over, fucked.  A party will come allong
that helps me remember why we are all here and connected.

This was the party that did that for me this summer, It was a most fitting
way to bring in fall and say farewell to the warm weather and regular
outdoor parties.  My hat goes off to all the SFRABERS who  helped
to put this party on.  Lee for taking action and sticking his neck out,
Markie for playing a wonderful set, John Dee for playing an absolute
Godlike set, I must say that I now do believe that you are God's-personal-DJ(tm)

The vibe was strong and I really go a good groove fix .

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 01:21:42 1993
From: 00hamacdonal@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1993 03:21:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Dub Tribe performing at "The Edge" Thur. Oct 7th 317.281.3000
Status: 



            David Hollands & Goque Groove present:
  Thursday nights: Ball State U.- Muncie, IN =-
   Your Journey has a new destination . . .   "THE EDGE"
     215 S. Walnut St. in Muncie - aka The C.O.C.   9p-4a 

  This Thursday, Oct 7th "The Edge" welcomes Organico recording artist

                      DUB TRIBE - direct from San Francisco
But who's DUB TRIBE?
DUB TRIBE are a new recording and performance group from S.F.; they are
completely Live. No DAT machines are used in their performance.  This
4 member band, known for their extended sets, create original music on
the spot - even adding improvisational percussion over the D.J.'s breaks.
  -URB magazine writes:  "...these guys and girls, with their tribal
    live percussion, sizzling optics, beefy funked-up breaks, swirly
    dubbed vocals and bass tremors unlike anything felt here in the Bay,
    are a live force everyone must hear...they are a collective, and...
    when they perform, the audience is part of that collective too"
                                                - April 1993
        Witness San Francisco's Live Groove - DUB TRIBE
          performing Thur. Oct. 7th at "The Edge" with Guest D.J.'s:
        David Hollands  -  Mr. Linus  -  Mike Shroff
    Sponsored in full by Chicago's  REACTOR magazine
    Full Smart Bar & Service by ImSmartRU
       "The Edge" is Thursdays 9p-4a  & No Age Restirctions
       The DUB TRIBE show with D.J.'s is  $4.00
       24 Hr. Info Line - Groovus Maximus Bassline:
                   317.281.3000

Yours in the Groove,
Mind of the Perptual Vibe,
David Hollands - Ball State University - Muncie, IN - 317.288.6277
                        24 Hr Muncie/Indiana Info @ - 317.281.3000
____________________________________________________________________________
            David Hollands & Goque Groove present:
   Thursday Nights: Ball State U.-Muncie, IN  215 S. Walnut
      Your Journey has a new destination . . .    "THE EDGE"
Deep House - Hard Acid - Dance 2 Trance - Post-Techno Ambient Grooves
   It began as "Pink's Party"; now every Thursday is your own excursion
     9p-4a    215 S. Walnut (AKA the C.O.C.)  downtown Muncie
   This Thur.  "The Edge" welcomes  -= DUBTRIBE =- direct from San Francisco
   With D.J.'s  David Hollands + Mr. Linus + Mike Schroff  
   Sponsored by REACTOR magazine Chicago/ Full Smart Service from ImSmartRU
         "The Edge" 24 Hr Info Line:  317.281.3000

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 06:43:50 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 06:19:56 PDT
Subject: Info on russia
Status: 

From: <peacenet>
Subject: Yeltsin Cuts Phone Lines

Before we get on the Yeltsin "move toward democracy" let us pause...





Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 10:38:08 PDT
From: Labor Video Project <lvpsf>
To: peacenet
Subject: alerts: Yeltsin Info Blockade

              KAS-KOR LABOR INFORMATION CENTER
              PHONES CUT BY YELTSIN GOVERNMENT
        PROTESTS NEEDED TO DEFEND FREEDOM OF INFORMATION
 
 
9/30/93
San Francisco
 
     We have just received information that the Kas-Kor Labor
Information Center's phones and faxes have been cut by the
Yeltsin government. This means that the only means of
communication with the center is with the use of electronic mail. 
     Please sent protests to the Russian consulate/embassy with
copies to krazchenko@glas.apc.org. It is also important to break
the infomation blockade in the US about the dictatorship being
imposed on the people. Please spread the information.
     The following is from reports from the Kas Kor Information
Center in Moscow.
ty
                  Information Blockade
 
 
 
     A strict  information blockade  has been imposed on the 
country. Telephone lines to the Supreme Soviet building have 
been   cut off; this has made it impossible for the people's 
deputies   who are in the building to contact their electors 
and explain  the  stands they have taken. After establishing 
control over   the  television and  radio, Boris Yeltsin has 
subjected them  to  strict censorship. Newspaper offices are 
being placed  under lock   and key, and television and radio 
programs  are  being  cancelled.    This  is  depriving  the 
country's population  of the opportunity to  learn the truth 
about the  events that  are unfolding  in the   country  and 
about the  positions taken by people's deputies and  members 
of the Constitutional Court. 
     Public organisations  are under  blockade as  well.  In 
particular,  telephone  lines  have  been  cut  off  to  the 
building of   the  country's  main  trade  union  body,  the 
Federation of   Independent  Trade Unions of Russia. Leading 
figures in  the   executive authority are making unambiguous 
threats  that   these    trade  unions  will  be  dissolved. 
Finally,  totally   fabricated  and   unproven  charges   of 
organising acts  of terrorism  and other criminal activities 
are  being levelled against the people in the Supreme Soviet 
building.  People are being openly and publicly described as 
criminals, a   practice which has nothing in common with the 
presumption of  innocence. 
     A savage  personal dictatorship is thus being installed 
in   Russia. The  following basic  human  rights  are  being 
violated: 
     * The right of citizens to participate in administering 
state affairs through their freely elected representatives; 
     * The right to free thought, to free speech, and to the 
unrestricted expression of ideas and convictions; 
     * The  right to  seek,  obtain  and  freely  distribute 
information; 
     * The  right to privacy in correspondence, in telephone 
conversations and in telegraphic and other communications; 
 
     #Moscow City Soviet member Boris Kagarlitsky, who is in
charge of  liaison  between  the  deputies' meeting and  the 
trade  unions,  declared at the press conference that the
struggle to defend  the  parliament  remained the principal
thrust of the activity of  all  progressive organisations in
Russia. Thanks to the actions of the  people's  deputies, 
Kagarlitsky said,  other forces such as  the  trade unions had
obtained a breathing-space and an opportunity to prepare  for
further actions under the conditions of a ``liberal- fascist''
regime. 
As if to remove all doubt that the bases for a repressive regime 
are now being established, police at 8 p.m. on September 28 began
forcing   demonstrators  away  from  the  cordons  blocking   the 
entrances  to the White House.  Equipped with steel  shields  and 
clubs,  massed  ranks of Interior Ministry special forces  troops 
drove  the  protestors out of the neighbourhood adjacent  to  the 
White  House.  In a number of cases where people tried to resist, 
they were savagely beaten. 
Outraged  by  the  actions of the troops  and  militia  members, 
protestors began building barricades on nearby streets.  However,
no shops were destroyed and no cars damaged.  Any attempts to  do 
this were prevented by the barricade-builders themselves. This in 
itself  is  proof  that  the crowd was not  made  up  drunks  and 
maniacs,  as the mass media tried to imply.   
Just as false is the claim that the night's events were provoked 
by  the  demonstrators  themselves,  trying to  force  their  way 
through  the militia ranks.  No-one who saw the massive  barriers 
strewn with razor wire could doubt that this was impossible.  The 
beatings of protestors were begun on orders from higher up. 
#At 9 p.m.  the forces of the state mounted a new attack, and the 
demonstrators were scattered into nearby laneways.  Hardly anyone 
tried   to  resist.   Before  my  eyes,   the  Chairman  of   the 
Cheremushkinsky  Regional  Soviet  was thrown to the  ground  and 
viciously  beaten  after  he  had urged  the  militia  through  a 
megaphone not to use violence against the people.  
OMON  troops then threw to the ground and began kicking a  young 
woman  with a video camera who had caught the incident  on  tape.
This  victim of the brutalised troops was unable even to pull out 
her   press  card.   After  administering  these  beatings,   the 
``guardians  of  democracy'' hauled the victims  off  behind  the 
cordon. 
#The  number  of participants in these confrontations is hard  to 
estimate,  because  the incidents were scattered  throughout  the 
entire  neighbourhood.  Estimates of the number of  demonstrators 
who  were  near  the White House on the evening of  September  28 
range from 2000 to 8000 people. 
Credit to KAS-KOR Labor Information Center, Moscow 
Ph. (095) 921-0655 


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 06:43:59 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 06:29:34 PDT
Subject: ALT NEWS FROM MOSCOW. October 4
Status: 

/* ---------- "Alt News from Moscow. October 4." ---------- */
ALT NEWS FROM MOSCOW. October 4.

By this time, CNN etc. is probably giving fairly accurate factual
information about the events going on here. Still, we suppose that the
information is extremely one-sided. (We haven't been able to see for
ourselves due to the seizure of Ostankino, from which cable channel 6 is
also televised.)

Last night and this morning, the TV was broadcasting pro-Yeltsin appeals
to the nation. They urged people to take Yeltsin's side and to defend
the Kremlin. There are some people doing this now but it does not seem
like more than 500 people turned out. However the TV broadcast that
"thousands upon thousands of Muscovites are heading to Moscow City
Soviet (Mossoviet) at this moment to defend democracy". Obviously some
people did head that way, but not nearly as many as they claimed or will
try to portray to the nation and the world.

Under such conditions, it is easy to understand why Ostankino would be
stormed.

We of course feel bad for the technical workers, janitors, etc. that got
stuck at Ostankino. The TV announcers, writers etc. the ones that are
really to blame for the media distortion, apparently fled the building
well before hand. Many people were hurt. Last night we saw injured
arrive in trucks at the White House and they claimed that the hospital
refused to treat the wounded. This information is still being
distubuted. I heard that 5 doctors at one hospital refused treatment but
the other hospitals were treating everybody as best as they could. This
is unconfirmed at this time. Different people formed their own red cross
brigades to treat the wounded.

A few people were apparently leaving the White House area by 11 AM. The
people there are clearly sitting ducks. Roads are blocked by tanks and
all the metros around the area and closed so nobody can get through to
help them. There is a small fire at the mayor's building and lots of
shooting, apparently a lot of firing from tanks. Rumour has it that a
few minutes ago they hung up the white flag at the White House but they
are still fighting as nobody has come out yet.

AKAI 10/4
NOON

Spread by KAS-KOR Labour Information Centre, Moscow
Ph: (095) 921-0655
Conf? 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 06:44:02 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 06:34:52 PDT
Subject: News: where to get them
Status: 

Topic 553News: where to get themRUSSIA@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edubitl.russia 1:30 pm  Oct  3, 1993

Reply-To: Russia & her neighbors <RUSSIA@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edu>
From: Serge Viznyuk <VIZNYUK@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      News: where to get them

---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender:       Russia & her neighbors <RUSSIA@ARIZVM1.BITNET>
Poster:       Serge Viznyuk <VIZNYUK@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      News: where to get them
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The latest news from Interfax and Postfactum
in Russian (KOI-8) are available also on
newcom.kiae.su  NNTP server
on relcom.politics newsgroup

newcom.kiae.su  network address is 144.206.136.5

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 07:30:23 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 06:46:34 PDT
Subject: ???
Status: 

Topic 565Russia Bulletin #63 responsesRUSSIA@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edubitl.russia11:18 pm  Oct  3, 1993

Reply-To: Russia & her neighbors <RUSSIA@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edu>
From: "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject:      Russia Bulletin #6

---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender:       Russia & her neighbors <RUSSIA@ARIZVM1.BITNET>
Poster:       "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject:      Russia Bulletin #6
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeltsin just gave his speech, in which he said two things
clearly ... "The armed fascist rebellion will be suppressed
in the shortest time possible"0 and he spoke both in memory
of the dead and of his respect for the citizens of Moscow for
their bravery and calmess, "I respect you so much" was his
closing statement. He ordered that the the bank accounts of
all suspect organizations involved in the "Communist/fascist
uprising" be frozen, and that all armed bands be diarmed and
"neutralized."

As he spoke, more and more commando types were advancing on
the east side of the building, and the firing continues to be
heavy, now from both sides. An air assault is predicted, was
announced, but no evidence of it has yet manifested, though
tanks are now moving in closer to the building along with
more and more troops. VMS


Reply-To: Russia & her neighbors <RUSSIA@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edu>
From: "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject:      Russia Bulletin #12 ...

---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender:       Russia & her neighbors <RUSSIA@ARIZVM1.BITNET>
Poster:       "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject:      Russia Bulletin #12 ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fire in the White House, claimed by the defenders to have been put
out, is raging anew. After a small lull in the firing, the shooting has
resumed, while black beret troops had begun clearing "the few thousand
people" off the bridge in front of the White House. Lots of the crowd
are reported to be "young kids 12-16" and "ladys with interesting, rare
dogs," according to Art Troitsky, a disc jockey and journalist interviewed
by CNN after a plunge into those self-same crowds. No apartments in the
area have been evacuated, though all American embassy staff & dependents
have been moved to an underground gymnasium. Some bystanders have been
hit by snipers, and some sniper fire has raked nearby apartments. As of
0400 Moscow time, 18 have been killed, 192 wounded, and 158 hospitalized -
a number sure to go much higher after today's fighting. VMS
Conf? 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 07:58:08 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 93 07:58:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Connection Earth 
Status: 

Ditto on the kudos, boyo! That was a great party!

We obviously had good timing given that there were some huge lighting
and thunder strikes last night around 3AM along with heavy rain fall.
But the weather on Sunday afternoon was perfect, IMHO, for dancing all
day -- not too hot, not too cold. Niceness! 

Many thanks to Lee, Markie, and JonD for playing godlike sets, and to
Lee Fogel, Ethan, Bryce and everybody else for filling the air with
beautiful liquid sound. 

So when is the next one? If it's cold, we don't care -- it'll just give
us an excuse to dance harder....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 09:55:10 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 10:53:06 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: The Orb More in Brief Tour '93
Status: 

THE ORB MORE IN BRIEF TOUR '93

_PROMOTER COMPUTER LISTING_

SAN FRANCISCO - OCTOBER 15TH:

	"The Ambient Experience" featuring The Orb is at the Warfield Theatre,
982 Market Street, on Friday 15th of October.  The event starts at 10pm and
goes until 4am.
	Three seperate environments are on hand for maximum enjoyment.  DJ and
artist line up include; DJ Lewis; Alex Patterson; Buck; Markey Mark; Dutch;
Ernie Munsen; Hardkiss Music and Space Time Continuim.
	The night is open to all ages.  Alcohol is served to those with ID.
	After hours is offered at $5.  The location will be revealed on the
night and includes the same DJ line up plus DJ Reese from NYC.

LOS ANGELES - OCTOBER 16TH:

	The Orb will perform in L.A. on Saturday 16th October at the Park
Plaza.  This event will start at 10pm until 3am with the after hours party
running from 3am until 9am.  After hours location will be announced on the
night during the show.
	All ages are welcome and alcohol is served with ID.
	Also deejaying are Doc Martin and Jason Butley.

CHICAGO - OCTOBER 20TH:

	"You are halfway to the weekend - no go all the way to heaven with the
Orb in Chicago on Wednesday October the 20th, 9pm to 4am, at the Metro."
	There are 2 rooms.  THe Orb are in the main room, and Josh Werner and
Tom Pazen will spin in the reggae-dub lounge.
	The even is open to ages 18+ and alcohol is served to those with ID.
For more info call (312) 549-0203.

MONTREAL - OCTOBER 22ND:

	The Bus Company brings to Montreal "The Eclipse", featuring a two hour
performance by The Orb, on Friday 22nd of October at Metropolis, 59 Saint
Catherine East.
	The event stars at 9pm and finishes at 3am and features Dominic Woosey
from Neutron 9000/United Frequencies of Trance in the main room.  A dub lounge
will have Interchill; Stricky Tricky Nicky and DJ Alex Patterson spinning the
latest in trance, house, and ambient.
	Metropolis is open to ages 18+ and a full bar is offered.
	During the show the location of the after hours party will be
announced.  This will be running from 3:30am til 9am and will cost $5-$6.
	For more info call (514) 287-3263.

NEW YORK - OCTOBER 23RD:

	Matt E. Silver/Intermodo and the Blunt Academy present The Orb in
their only East Coast appearance on Saturday October the 23rd.
	"The Journey - Part 1 and 2", has the once in a lifetime line up of
DJ's with Alex Patterson (UK); DJ Lewis (UK); Adam X (Brooklyn); Mr. Kleen
(NET); Repeat (Future Shock); Micro (Caffeine); Joeski (Magic); Soul Slinger
(Liquid Sky); Resse (Communion); Dimitri (Deelite); Kamins (NYC); and Guy DMC
(USA).
	Giant Step with DJ Jazzy nice, Chill Freeze and the Live Giant Step
Crew will be taking over the basement.  Surreal Hose of the most is
Communion's Neville and overloading the visual senses are la la landia and
Spike Millvolte's Psycho Kenetic Gallery.
	Part 1 will be held from 11pm until 6am at the Roseland, 239 W. 52nd
Street, with showtime at 1am.  Part 2 will run from 6am until noon at a new
location announced on the night.  Part 2 will cost $6 with Orb ticket stub.
	For bus or other info call (212) 966-4033.


Note from Pete:  THAT IS IT FOLKS.  FIVE STOPS.  THERE ARE NO OTHER STOPS ON
THIS TOUR.  BUY YOUR PLANE TICKETS NOW IF YOUR TOWN IS NOT LISTED, BECAUSE
THEY AREN'T COMING.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 10:28:28 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 10:28:46 -0700
Subject: Re:  Liquid Air needs help
Status: 

Sure I'll help if you need it. I also have pick up I can share so let me know when and were..........>:)

Hoss

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 11:03:00 1993
From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 10:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GG Park Rave!
Status: 


 I hope everyone who went to the GG Park rave had as much fun as I
did. Good dj-ing, communal sharing of stuff to eat and drink, dancing (but
why were there more folks just lying around than dancing?). Praises and
applause for all the people who made it happen.
 I'm the one (one of the two, to be more exact) who was out there juggling
to the music. Who said all you could do to house and techno was dance?    :<)
 Let's do it again.
 Ummm, Halloween is on a Sunday, October 31..... a halloween rave in the
park... could anyone go for that?




From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 11:23:44 1993
From: Ravi Vinodrai Gadhia <rg@CS.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 11:23:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feeling ReConnected...
Status: 

Hey All!


Sunday in the park was major FUN stuff.  BIG Thanks to everyone
who made it go off ...   I just love losing my head w/SFravers.  :)

Hmmm, 

Ravi


BTW, Anyone find a grey/black/white blanket?  In my light-headedness,
I forgot it....<oops>...and I'm still looking for my head...



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 11:33:25 1993
From: "Mike Romo" <mike_romo@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 4 Oct 1993 11:26:29 -0800
Subject: Prolific Park Party!
Status: 

                      Subject:                              Time:  11:23 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Prolific Park Party!                  Date:  10/4/93
Well gang, the park party was fantastic.  Great to see everyone.  I think we
need to throw another one just to thank the crew that put up this first one! 

Were there any noise complaints?  What was the deal with the roving (as opposed
to the raving) police?  Nothing like dancing and seeing a cop car drive toward
the dance space, huh?  Where do they FIND roads to do that?

sigh...great party, fantastic.  Are tapes of the music going to be available? 
The music was fanTAStic...

I still can't believe I am at work.

mike




From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 14:19:26 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 14:08:41 PDT
Subject: Lost&Found
Status: 


Connection Earth, Oct. 3rd - Found:

- Single key on keyring

- Sunglasses in case left on picnic table by the DJs

If one of these items is yours, leave message at 415-563-4744.


FMR Sept. 29 - Lost:

Black pack with yin/yang/wings patch.  Contained camera, flashlight.
Reward; 510-843-2523, David

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 15:00:30 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 14:59:07 PDT
Subject: Crash Worship, etc.
Status: 


Well, the much-maligned 16th & Harrison space is being put to better use as
some non-scumbags get hold of it.  The show was $8 (!) for four bands plus
a DJ in the other room.  First were two women with strings playing chamber-
type music (and someone else with a keyboard, I couldn't tell what they
were doing).  A nice change from the usual thump-thump-thump.  Then came
three bands who I wasn't quite in the mood to see: Sleep, God and Texas,
and Neurosis.  Sorry, I just wasn't up for loud angry sludge, especially
given that the sound was deafening but not very good.  Neurosis does put
on an excellent visual show (they have a guy full-time who just does the
video, slides, etc.) and when you want that sort of scream in pain at the
dying world music, that's about the thing.

The main room was full by the time people started filtering in to see CW,
which worried me a bit -- the largest show I had seen them play previously
was at Gilman to ~150 people, and here the crowd was closer to four figures
than two.  An interesting mix of cultures -- lots of punks, some industrial-
type PIBs, some ravers, a few hippies.  The piercing quotient was quite
high >^)  Met a couple people who I recognized from previous CW shows, and
was pleasantly surprised to see Allen@Ameba.  After a long period of 
expectant waiting, punctuated by howls and screams from the crowd plus
some choruses of "We Shall Overcome" and "Do the Hokey-Pokey", the fun
began.

Anyone who's been to a CW show can guess what happened -- it was much the
same as any other show except bigger.  This is, of course, good.  There
were the usual quantities of firecrackers and flash flares, several 
burning torches, the usual quota of naked and half-naked people, cheap
wine in bags, water hoses and fire extinguishers, and more fire.  There's
something primal and magnetic about fire, even in a crummy warehouse near
the Mission.  Fire and drums, drums and fire.  Drums, fire, and the dance.
The fire draws us with its power, yet burns us if we attempt to possess it,
and the drums pound, and we dance, animated by the drums and the fire, and
I'm sorry for this awful stream-of-consciousness crap but it's not a verbal
experience, you just have to go do it and then maybe you'll see what I mean.
It's no good to watch, either: you've got to leave the part of you that
says "Man, that's _dangerous_", "What the hell are they doing?", "What
the hell am _I_ doing?", and "Aw, geez, I'll get my pants dirty" behind,
and trample it into the ground along with your suavity and voguing 
technique.

This is rave for the modern primitive who is tired of the antiseptic, 100%
legally-approved-activity of hanging around in a dark auditorium watching
rainbow-tinted black&white slides while listening to old Japanese machines
pound out 129 BPM for ten hours.  Crash Worship are not the end-all of
fun, nor the best drummers ever; but they're on to something important
that is 100% missing from our everyday (ab)normal life.

// g

PS: Allen was talking about the need for people to check out different
kinds of events sometimes: any being that cannot change eventually dies
out, because the only certainty in the universe is constant change.  If
you start finding "The Scene" a bit dull and lifeless, at least half of
that is in your own head.  Nostalgia is great, but most often the joy was
in being new and different, and an attempt to recapture the "vibe" of the
earlier time will never be the same, because it is the same.  Dig?


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 15:34:22 1993
From: root@Gregor.Mosheh.Net (Gregor Mosheh, Administrator)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 15:16:09 PDT
Subject: This weekend!
Status: 

First, Sean and I went to Divinity. I didn't know raves were EVER held in
Davis, but it sure was nice to be only five minutes from home, instead of
the usual 90 minute drive from SF.

Divinity was cool. Not what I'd call fantastic, but Sean had the time of
his life. I'd never heard of Dutch, but he spun a really nice trance set.
Carlos was (from what I hear) his usual self, a walking good vibe. It was
great! He was jumping around and waving his arms at everyone, just going
wild. Of course, the crowd gathered around the table was equally energetic,
dancing (on my feet) and waving and yelling. It was a great time, but I
would have had more fun if the dance floor had been better. I thought
dancing on sand was an impossible project (for me, that is - nobody else
seems to have a problem with it), but the floor was covered with an inch
and a half of rubber fragments, like tires bits. (Tire Bits - full of
Vitamin F, part of this nutritious rave breakfast) Dancing was a bitch, but
what the hell.

Then we went to the GG Park rave. It was killer! Markie Mark put on a
really great trance set, and John Drukman put on an AMAZING trance set,
with some of the most original stuff I'd ever heard. (Gee, can ya tell I
like trancey music?) It was just a fantastic time from beginning to (Alas!)
end. I missed the afterparty (couldn't find it), though. Anyone go to that?
How was it?

Anyway, after GGP, most of us went to dinner at some Thai place and then
Sean and I went to Susie's to crash, along with apparently half of San
Francisco. Woke up late, missed my only class (Chemistry, too! Damn!), and
broke my glasses (at least $100 to replace, can't be fixed), but still
rocking on that great vibe. If I'm lucky, it'll keep rocking 'til Thursday.

Hope to see ya all Thursday and ESPECIALLY Friday night. ORB...
huh-huh That'll be cool. huh-huh-huh-huh-huh-huh
Yeah, Orb's cool. heh-heh-heh-hm-hm-heh-hm-hm

Also, there's a song that I just adore. I THINK the name of it is
"Tempestada", or something like that. It kinda goes like this:
duh-duh-duh... Uhm, never mind. Anyone heard of it, or that one called
Circus Bells? Who does them and where can I get them or any other REALLY
acid trancey stuff like that?


                 hazrat Gregor Mosheh
    4301-B Ashland Terrace Davis, CA 95616  (916) 757-7319                 
     
   gmosheh@nyx.cs.du.edu      mosheh@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
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Finger gmosheh@nyx.cs.du.edu for more info on PGP and me. :)


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 16:31:23 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 93 16:31:48 -0700
Subject: Re: lost and found
Status: 


> - Sunglasses in case left on picnic table by the DJs

Actually, I found these sunglasses+case on the "dance floor" area covered
in dust. Looked inside, and saw a brand of expensive yuppie-sunglasses that
I always wanted to buy but would be too afraid of losing. So I put them on
top of the "right" speaker stack in the hope that they would be visible to
their owner. I guess not.

I guess after the speakers got moved, they still didn't get claimed
and got moved to the picic table....

Anyways, if you don't find the owner of the sunglasses, I'd be happy too
claim them for you :-). I can even identify the brand and style!

PS: I can happily report that this is one of the first sfraves event where
I did not suffer a loss. At Connection I, I had a nice ($200.00) internal
frame backpack stolen, and at the SF Raves Picnic way back when, someone
smashed the front passenger side windows of 3 cars parked on the road-side
(one of which was mine, cost ~ $180.00 to repair). The low rate of loss
corresponds to my findings that the asshole coefficient of SF is lower than
that of Oakland or Santa Cruz :-). So pinch me before I begin singing a
putrescently florid paean to my home town!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 16:33:03 1993
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 16:32:57 -0700
Subject: Re:  This weekend!
Status: 

>From: root@gregor.mosheh.net (Gregor Mosheh, Administrator)

>Anyone heard of it, or that one called
>Circus Bells? Who does them and where can I get them or any other REALLY
>acid trancey stuff like that?

"Circus Bells" is an old Chicago Acid track from the Warehouse label, and is
by Robert Armani.  "Circus Bells" was remixed earlier this summer by 
Hardfloor (of "Acsperience") and re-released on the Duth label DJAX.  It's
part of a 2x12" vinyl set called "Robert Armani Remixes."  It is not out on
CD . . . however there *is* a DJAX compilation CD coming out (import only)
that might have it on it.

I played "Circus Bells" (the Hardfloor remix) that night you and I were both 
at Your Sister's House.

I suggest trying Gaia Mantra (spelling?) in San Francisco for it, I've never
been there but from what other people say it would be a good store to try.

Warning, though:  it came out in June, so you might not be able to find or
even order a copy now.

Hey, the countdown begins again:  see you all in 10 days!!!!!!  

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 16:38:12 1993
From: gwh@lurnix.COM
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 93 16:19:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Info on russia 
Status: 


I suspect that propaganda by either side in Russia right now
is so biased as to be untrustable.  What I've seen and other
people are reporting firsthand is different from what that
article Geoff just posted said.  As always, think about who's
saying what and why.

-george




From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 17:01:11 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 17:00:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Info on russia
Status: 

Agreed - there are so many sides to this issue that even the Russians 
themselves are confused and uninformed (if you watch CNN you probably know
more about the situation tha 95% of the Russian population.)

There are tqwo much more appropriate newsgroups for this discussion, which I 
have been following closely: talk.politics.soviet (recently revived) and
alt..current-events.russia.  For those of who who want their info LIVE, I
believe the IRC channel #report has been set up as a live feed from people
at demos.su, with reports of happenings and transcriptions of speeches
and such.  Finally, there is a gopher site with tons of info: sunsite.unc.edu.
Check it out (welcome to the information age!)

        Brian

p.s. - the GG Park party ROCKED!  Great job everyone!

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 17:31:06 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 17:30:59 -0700
Subject: Re: GG Park Rave!
Status: 

On Oct 4, 10:54am, you proclaimed:
}  I hope everyone who went to the GG Park rave had as much fun as I
} did. Good dj-ing, communal sharing of stuff to eat and drink, dancing (but
} why were there more folks just lying around than dancing?). Praises and
} applause for all the people who made it happen.
}  I'm the one (one of the two, to be more exact) who was out there juggling
} to the music. Who said all you could do to house and techno was dance?    :<)
}  Let's do it again.
}  Ummm, Halloween is on a Sunday, October 31..... a halloween rave in the
} park... could anyone go for that?

I believe I was talking to someone who already had permits for it (being
a Caspar afterparty or some such).  But any ol weekend would suffice for
me :)

	Brian

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 18:34:48 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 18:29:52 PDT
Subject: Re: Prolific Park Party!
Status: 

> sigh...great party, fantastic.  Are tapes of the music going to be available? 
> The music was fanTAStic...
> 

YESSS!!! I need to have a tape.
Especially of John's set.  It the best I've tr/danced to in a long while.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 18:56:57 1993
From: dz5401a@palestrina.anderson-lab.american.edu (Douglas Zimmerman)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 21:59:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Info on russia
Status: 

> 
> Agreed - there are so many sides to this issue that even the Russians 
> themselves are confused and uninformed (if you watch CNN you probably know
> more about the situation tha 95% of the Russian population.)
> 

 it was fascinating to watch it.

> alt..current-events.russia.  For those of who who want their info LIVE, I
etc. 

> Check it out (welcome to the information age!)
> 
>         Brian
> 
 Not all information is totally on the electronic tip these days.
While in Kenya two summer's ago, the Russian Revolution occured and
the only way of receiving information was via shortwave radio.
(viva the BBC) which had hourly updates. Shortwave is broadcast over 
all of russia and is accessed by many common people. Many people found
the truth of what was happining in Moscow over shortwave radio. So
the alternatives are there.

overseas in the mind.

doug ) ( 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct  4 20:02:36 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 93 20:03:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Info on russia 
Status: 

> I suspect that propaganda by either side in Russia right now
> is so biased as to be untrustable.  What I've seen and other
> people are reporting firsthand is different from what that
> article Geoff just posted said.  As always, think about who's
> saying what and why.

Yeah, I sent GeoffW's postings to my father (who escaped from USSR around
1963 and continues to have an axe to grind with them) and he had the
following to say:

> This news clearly comes from the old-guard communists (who seem to
> have kept their contacts to the "peace" movement intact, and are
> trying to get the party line across). 
> 
> I heard most of this on the BBC and VOA, and know how to take Yeltzin
> with a pound of salt.  He is no gentleman either, and I am very
> dubious about the final outcome.  On the other hand, if these guys 
> would have won, antisemitism and repression would have been even
> worse.
 
At this point I don't know who to trust, but I do know that the coverage on
CNN has the feel of CIA disinformation stamped all over it, along with the
fact that the US has been "bribing" Yeltsin with all those billions of $$$
of "aid" money.

I guess there is the other side of the story -- from a US Natl Security
standpoint it's better to have a dictator that is in the palm of our hands
since he does control an awfully large arsenal of nuclear weapons.

(Duck and cover!)

--------------------

PS: The only thing that is more screwy than the slanted coverage of the
situation in Russia is our attempt to set up a military outpost in Somalia
so that we can have a home base for "pacifying" the mideast Oil producing
countries in the Oil wars that the "industrial west" *WILL* be fighting in
the future.

When Somalia is mentioned some people think "africa" but they'd never think
"middle east" -- but take a look at a map sometime, and you'll see what I'm
talking about w/r/t Somalia's strategic location.  And if you don't think
wars will be fought in the future over a dwindling commodity that is the
lifeblood of the industrial world, then you've been doing too much X. (And
don't forget that our war against Iraq was one such war, but nobody seemed
to notice the facts behind all TV-wanna-be-superbowl-sunday coverage of
that war.)

SOMALIA IS PANAMA ALL OVER AGAIN: We set up some US soldiers as sacrificial
lambs, tilt public opinion with George-Bushian-oratory about "unprovoked
attacks on US personnel", and start bombing in retaliation, claiming there
was no way to control the situation. Exactly what happened in Panama.

And after it's all over, we'll have to stick around for a while to ensure
"peace" -- better build an airbase and some barracks. Oh gee, we spent all
that money building air strips and barracks, I guess it must be ours in the
first place.

So yes, it's beginning to sound like the Panama Deception all over again.
(one of the darkest moments in modern US foreign policy that everybody
seems to have completely forgotten about).

And in the end, we get Somalia to control mideast oil, and Panama to
control the coca trade in columbia/peru, and control the Panama canal 
(which we won't be giving back to the Panamanians in 1999, thereby 
violating treaties signed by Jimmy Carter)....

(Hey, I still think that government can be good, but perhaps "Good" can
never happen in a superpower, and perhaps power does corrupt absolutely.)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 00:59:02 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 00:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: orbital/aphex twin show
Status: 

I'm interested!!!  Sami Khoury, Berkeley frosh, male, in for a road trip.
(510)643-1289
Re pleez

On Tue, 28 Sep 1993, illuminated iconoclast wrote:

> 
> 	i have heard this show will happen in la.
> 	supposedly the weekend of november eleventh.
> 	anyone in for a road trip, if they don't
> 	swing by the sf area?
> 
> calibn
> 
> caliban too
> 



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 02:37:29 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 02:37:25 -0700
Subject: Re: GG Park Rave!
Status: 

	i also tryly enjoyed connection earth... i even had my
	picture taken by some ravergurlz.  i was the one with
	the twisted greeeeen pants.

	anyway haloween would be cool time for an event, but i 
	think most of us will be in the castro.  somthing around
	four or five in the morning would be an excellent after-castro
	thing to do though....


caliban

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 08:37:01 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 08:30:45 PDT
Subject: Connection Earth 
Status: 


I arrived at the site a little before 11, where there was a steady drizzle.
Ethan & Bryce showed up with the sound system, and we were pretty much set 
up by 12ish  The drizzling had stopped, but hardly anyone else had arrived, 
and I became concerned because we were also missing a number of key people 
who supposed to help get us off to an early start.  

It turns out that there were huge traffic jams, in the city and on the Bay
Bridge due to the Castro Street fair, but Lee arrived just in time to keep
things on schedule, and Brian arrived just after with his DAT, banner etc.

People continued to dribble in while Ethan & Bryce continued to fine tune
the audio.  When I think of how many parties I've been to where the sound
has been distorted, out of phase, or generally screwed, it's a pleasue to
be in the company of sound people who really care.  This was the best 
sounding system the park has ever heard.  

I think we reached critical mass midway through Lee's set.  The vibe 
grew with each minute as more people arrived.  There was fruit, juice,
water, literature, recycling bins, bubbles, juggling - It's these kinds of 
touches, the ones that promote a sense of sharing, awareness and 
participation that make the difference between a fun party and a spiritual 
celebration.  There are few things that feel better than being a part of a
such a cooperative effort.  

Park Rangers - As expected, they showed up with frowns on their faces.  The
older bald-headed guy - we've seen him at other events: what a grump.  
Anyway, they claimed that residents outside the park were complaining 
about the sound, but implied that since it was outside park jurisdiction it 
wasn't their concern.  Nevertheless, I told them that we certainly didn't
want to disturb *anybody* and offered to have the speakers turned.  I don't 
think they believed I was serious until we immediately did so.  This seemed 
to impress them.  They looked over the permit very carefully while I babbled 
on about how peaceful we were and how much we plan to clean up after 
ourselves "cause we want to do more of these." etc.  I managed to get a 
smile out of the female ranger when I invited them to stay and join us.  
They declined, never to return again.

Police presence in the area - Apparently, they were looking for someone
with a gun who had ran into the park.  In fact, I heard that *they* pulled 
a gun on one of us, Mark Metz I believe, in the nearby woods.  A little 
later when the SFPD cruiser pulled up near the dance area, I figured it 
would be for a noise complaint, especially since we were approaching the 
5pm deadline.  Since I was sort of planning to lose track of time around 
then, I really didn't want to talk to them.  I didn't have to; they just 
smiled, turned around and left.

Fire! - An alert MykL Gold noticed smoke nearby, and we ran to investigate.
I had visions of the headlines: RAVERS BURN GOLDEN GATE PARK TO THE GROUND!
Not the kind of PR we're looking for, not to mention that I'd probably have
a hard time getting my security deposit back. ;-)  Anyway, it just turned 
out to be some homeless people around a campfire.

Time! - We got away with having amplified sound from 12:30 - 6pm, 1.5 hours 
more than permitted.  Shaun Ralston, who as recently as a few weeks ago had 
some kind of park event kept telling me how lucky we were, because for him, 
the rangers would next to the sound system looking at their watches.  Based
on what I've been hearing, I have to conclude that there's a lot of 
selective enforcement going on.  Or maybe the rangers were too busy hassling 
someone else that afternoon. 

Garbage? - My worries about garbage were completely unfounded.  I was almost
dissapointed that there wasn't more.  By the time I got hold of a garbage 
bag, other volunteers had already done the job. I satisfied my selfrighteous
environmentalist ethic by spending 5 minutes picking up some old cigarette 
butts from previous events.

DJs! - I want to personally thank the DJs for an outstanding job.  Lee had
done a radio gig the night before only to have me call him early in the
morning to tell him to come to the park extra early.  Then he gets caught 
in a massive traffic jam and has to rush to the tables without a moment to 
spare while the sound was still being adjusted.  His set had to be 
interrupted once while an annoying buzz in the left channel was eliminated.  
Still, Lee managed to set the mood and get the party off to a great start.  
Thanks to Markie for being Markie, mind-blowing as usual.  I was afraid DJ 
snobbery would cause some people to people to leave after Markie, but they 
stayed as Jon kept the vibe going string with a great set, even when the 
weather started to get chilly.  My apologies for jerking him around a bit 
by first telling him "another 10 or 15 minutes" and then extending things 
till 6 "unless I give you a signal."   

Again? - I already called the park, and Marx Meadows is all booked for
October.  I really don't want to deal with the stress of iffy weather but 
if anyone else wants to try to organize one before spring, I'll support the 
effort.  What I'm contemplating for the future is getting 3 or 4 dates in 
advance.  We have a great team here with a lot of talent andheart.  Giving 
something back to a scene that has given so much to us: the self-
reinforcement of positive energy - this is what will keep the scene alive.   
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 09:05:01 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 93 09:04:53 -0700
Subject: Electronic Spread of Information (was Re: Info on russia )
Status: 


>> Brian talks about alt.current-events.russia

From: dz5401a@palestrina.anderson-lab.american.edu (Douglas Zimmerman)
> Not all information is totally on the electronic tip these days.
> While in Kenya two summer's ago, the Russian Revolution occured and
> the only way of receiving information was via shortwave radio.
> (viva the BBC) which had hourly updates. Shortwave is broadcast over 
> all of russia and is accessed by many common people. Many people found
> the truth of what was happining in Moscow over shortwave radio. So
> the alternatives are there.

Yes, these alternatives are there, and listening to shortwave radio is
a very interesting experience... but please remember that VOA and BBC
are pure unmitigated western propaganda. It's this weird cat and mouse
game -- the western powers beam in megawatts of propaganda into the 
(ex) soviet union, and the (ex) soviet union puts out megawatts of
radio-noise to jam the western stations. In some places, people can
hear past the jammers, but in most places they can't.

Realize that this "radio cold war" has been going on for a long time
and that everything discussed is pure propaganda. Take everything you
hear with a boulder of  salt. 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 11:40:52 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 11:42:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: editor needed
Status: 

I am not sure how many more videos I should take of people. Maybe I 
should throw in a FMR before editing. Right now, I have been pretty busy 
and I don't have time to edit the tapes. I can transfer it on to VHS. 
Anyone have any  idead in what I should do with the tapes? Should I wait? 
etc. BTW, I video taped the rangers from a far distance. I even have Lee 
showing them the permits:). 

c
 -- 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 13:05:51 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 16:05:46 EDT
Subject: Divinity and Connection Earth
Status: 


DIVINITY

Divinity went off really well.  It was held in a trippy three story
rock climbing gym in Davis with rock walls on all sides and above.
Definitely one of the weirdest spaces I've been in :).

More than anything, Divinity was a really good vibe. When I got
there, a lot of people were just standing around. Usually this isn't
too good but even then one could sense a really positive vibe. Maybe
it's just due to the different crowd in Sacramento/Davis, but it gave
me a really good feeling.

Moonpup came on not soon after I got there and just did a fantastic
job and got everybody dancing. His sets are just so PHAT! And I like
his mixes probably better than anyone's.

And Carlos did his usual manic energize the crowd scratch go crazy put
the same record on both turntables and flip back and forth total
wonderful crazy love energy.

True Story: He's playing this really long, really amazingly great
song, and I decide I just *gotta* have it, so I look and there's no
label. I smile at Carlos and point at it and the expression on my
face tells all. So he just blows my mind when he mixes it out and then
just HANDS me the record so I could look at the label which is on the
flip side! Wow! What a nice guy! Spread the energy!

Dutch follows with a nice groovy trancey set which made it just right
for me.

It was also a good night because I made 4 or 5 new friends (Hi Tom and
Crissy and Chris and Eliza and Jen and the lady who was with Carlos
whose name I can't remember but whose smile I'll never forget). Really
nice people who I hope to share the vibe with again. It's interesting
how, if you're having a good time, and you're really open about it and
wanting to connect, you can really affect the people around you and
help them have a better time. It's so much fun and such an amazing
thing for me, connectedness. I was apart for so much of my life, and
rave has taught me so much.

Good: Really far out space. Really friendly crowd and promoters. No
confiscations. Smoke free. Lots of chill space.

Bad: Thick shredded tires on floor. Great for falling off a wall but
quickly tiring for dancing. I'm going to sugest they shovel them up
next time. Sound system wasn't done well so not much in the way of
stereo.


CONNECTION EARTH

The other reviews were right on. A _really_ good vibe, starting out
with about 10 hugs for Sean from happy SF raver folk :). It was a good
vibe all day with people dancing and hanging out and just being
family.

Someone asked why so many people were sitting around. Well it wasn't
the music or the space, I'm sure. Probably more because it was Sunday
and a lot of people were probably thrashed. I know personally that I
was ready for a hot tub by Sunday night.

I thought Jon was especially on Sunday. It was a _kickin_ groove for
hours where the songs just drive into each other. Wow. Poor Greg :)
just about danced a hole in the ground.

Mega-thanks to Lee and all who put this together. It's truly a
privilege to have all of you around as you spread such a good vibe and
so many good feelings. That's what it's all about :).

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 15:37:13 1993
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 14:45:45 PDT
Subject: Re:MasqueRave
Status: 

Oh I forgot to mention to all, this rave is FREE. That's right, NO COVER! Oh, and
please, if you want to drink something other than water......BYOB.

As they say in Finland, "Kippis" (cheers)

John T.
john@makesys.com

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 15:44:00 1993
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 13:50:43 PDT
Subject: MasqueRave - It ain't nuttin but a house party
Status: 

Hey all you raving lunatics d8~). Just want to let you know that there will be a
MasqueRave in San Jose Oct. 29th. Costumes are encouraged but not mandatory,
after all, "mandatory" is not a rave word. 

All are welcome who would like to come and party with us. Come along and bring a
friend. We've had a few at our house before and they've turned out quite nice.
Good vibes and good friends. Please RSVP via E-Mail to me at john@makesys.com
and I'll give you directions, times etc.

Also, I'm looking for DJ's who would like to "practice" on a live audience. So if
you are an aspiring new DJ, or an established, veteran pacesetter who would like 
to donate your time/talent in return for a great vibe and good fun, please let me
know. I'll provide the pre-amp, power amp, and speakers if some outrageously
nice individual can come up with a couple of turntables and a mixer all will be 
cool. If all else fails I will use pre-mix taped music, but there will be a 
groove. As that guy that sells suits on TV says, "I guarantee it".

I will keep all posted as to the status of the DJ situation for this party. I
know some folks don't like to dance unless it's to their fave DJ but hey, this
party is for folks who aren't all that particular about who they dance to. Just
that they get the chance to dance and have fun and meet some fun people. So if
you have any pretentiousness please leave it at home, this party is about fun and
nothing else.

I will provide plenty of bottled water and cups, you provide the vibe.

And Puhleeze! Consume all chemical substances before you arrive. I do not want
to give any of my neighbors a reason to ruin our groove. So no strange aromas
in the yard or house, and no exchanges of money in a hand shake, OK?

Anyway I look forward to a fun time, I hope you can join us. After all, how many
Roseanne re-runs can you watch on a Friday night?

Bye Y'all.

John T.

PS. I was at "Home" ... good groove. I was wearing the Swiss Army hat and 
over-alls. C-Ya

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 16:13:14 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 16:11:14 PDT
Subject: voobaha
Status: 

turns out something aggravating happened to my sendmail program and nothing's
been going out of my machine for the past couple of days, so all my mail about
GG Park has fallen into some black hole somewhere...

anyway, not much more to say that hasn't already been said, except i must
reiterate THANKS LEE!!  without you, this never would have happened, and
that would have been a great shame since i had a *blast*...

or, to quote a song i played, "that was fun let's do it again!"

/jon

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 16:37:21 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 16:31:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth
Status: 



On Tue, 5 Oct 1993, Sean Casey wrote:

> 
> DIVINITY
> 
> nice people who I hope to share the vibe with again. It's interesting
> how, if you're having a good time, and you're really open about it and
> wanting to connect, you can really affect the people around you and
> help them have a better time. It's so much fun and such an amazing
> thing for me, connectedness. I was apart for so much of my life, and
> rave has taught me so much.

rave? is that like zen? how much do i pay? and how many years does it take
to learn it?  partyon...susie (: 

(starting the "committe for people to realize there is more to life than
raving") 
(also when did rave (in the sence that we use it i.e. party) become a
verb, noun, and adjective?)



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 17:07:58 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 17:03:04 PDT
Subject: shameless plug for InterNex
Status: 



	Hey ravers,
	Tired of doing vrave at a mere 2400 baud?
	Do those GIFs of leah take sooo long to down-load?
	Well step into the fast lane with ISDN connectivity!!
	Just think 56 - 112 kbs direct link into the Internet
	from the privacy of your own home!  We are planning
	some really kowel services in the near future like the
	Virtual Mall (tm) and are looking for other new ways to
	take advantage of so much bandwidth.  Right now, we support
	Macintoshes, PCs(windows), Suns and SGI unix boxes.
	We will be deploying ISDN POPS in San Francisco and
	San Jose in november, our current POP is in Menlo Park.
	Since this is NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT and is just for informational
	purposes only, I can't tell you what the price is, BUT
	you can get all the info you need by anonymous ftp from

	gaia.internex.net look in /pub/internex.  you can download
	either text or postscript.  You can also send me e-mail or
	talk to me about it at the next FMR/Wicked/Basics.

	(Unfortunately, we are not offering this service outside the
	Bay Area yet)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNex Information Services Inc.  Voice:(415)473-3060   Fax: (415)473-3062
Director of Network Operations				geoffw@internex.net

 The opinions expressed are my own and are not necessarily those of InterNex

        "They might stop the party, but they can't stop the future"

		--PGP Public key available upon request--
Paranoia - Your state of mind when you finally realize what's really going on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 17:33:51 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 17:36:02 -0800
Subject: Re: shameless plug for InterNex
Status: 

At  5:03 PM 10/5/93 -0700, Geoff White wrote:

Not going to comment on the overall advertis-eral-ness of this, but-

>        Hey ravers,

>        from the privacy of your own home!  We are planning
>        some really kowel services in the near future like the
                     ^^^^^
Ouch!

>        Virtual Mall (tm) and are looking for other new ways to
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^
                       ^^
Double ouch!

>        We will be deploying ISDN POPS in San Francisco and
>        San Jose in november, our current POP is in Menlo Park.
>        Since this is NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT and is just for informational
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I see.

>        purposes only, I can't tell you what the price is, BUT
>
>
> The opinions expressed are my own and are not necessarily those of InterNex
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

gotta wonder...


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 19:09:50 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 18:39:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Divinity
Status: 

This from the UCD's California Aggie:
	According to reports, Saturday at approximately 3 a.m., James
Edwin Stubbs,23, was observed selling balloons of gas at a "rave" party in
a parking lot of the Rocknasium on Olive Drive.  Stubbs was found in
possession of a nitrous oxide tank, balloons, a baggie containing 24
tablets, which tested positive for opiate and methedrin, and $276 in
cash.  The controlled substances and cash were taken as evidence, Stubbs
was booked at the Davis Police Department and lodged at Yolo County Jail.


This makes the Davis Police's biggest bust list I'm sure and now you know
why "raves" get such a bad rap from the police.

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 19:22:19 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 22:22:08 EDT
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth
Status: 

"Susan R. Kameny" writes:
 > > rave has taught me so much.
 > 
 > rave? is that like zen? how much do i pay? and how many years does it take
 > to learn it?  partyon...susie (: 

Rave, The House Movement, SFRAVERS, The Dream, etc.

I dunno. Am I the only one that feels that way?

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 19:29:46 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 22:29:39 EDT
Subject: Divinity
Status: 

The police were standing in the parking lot all night.  I watched them
for a while and they were being quite friendly to the patrons,
basically leaving them alone and having friendly talks with the ones
who wanted to talk with them.

I'm pro-legalization, and I hate to see anyone go to jail for a
consentual crime. At the same time, I gotta wonder why the guy was
tempting fate. I mean, the police were in the same parking lot! Oh
well.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 20:06:02 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 19:51:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Divinity
Status: 

I didn't mean to bash drugs at all as I am for legalization.  However
we need to be very discreet about our business dealings and such.  Take a
little responsibility and rememeber that actions like this reflect
negatively to the "man" about our scene.   

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 20:12:07 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Ben Wing)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 20:11:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth
Status: 

In article <Pine.3.07.9310051627.A7384-a100000@sutro> you write:
|
|
|rave? is that like zen? how much do i pay? and how many years does it take
|to learn it?  partyon...susie (: 

A Zen monk was once given Ecstasy, and remarked about the state it
induced:

"It took me 20 years to achieve the same state through meditation; but
I'm glad I did it my way."

ben

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct  5 20:53:46 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 20:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: eric hughes
Status: 

hiya eric hughes is speaking at sfsu on thursday oct 7th at 4 p.m. in the
sci 149
 
the flyer says that " a founding member and spokesman for the cypherpunks,
will describe some of their projects and talk about the implications of
secure encryption." wheeeee
partyon...susie(:



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 06:12:19 1993
From: Rishad J. Quazi <rquazi@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 9:12:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth 
Status: 

> 
> "Susan R. Kameny" writes:
>  > > rave has taught me so much.
>  > 
>  > rave? is that like zen? how much do i pay? and how many years does it take
>  > to learn it?  partyon...susie (: 
> 
> Rave, The House Movement, SFRAVERS, The Dream, etc.
> 
> I dunno. Am I the only one that feels that way?
> 
> Sean
> 

Hey kids, fishy thoughts follow :)

I must agree with Sean in this matter. There is more to life than raving to be
sure, but can't raving become an affector of a way of life? A way of life
reflecting the p.l.u.r. (figure it out) that seems to be present at a good
rave? Does the vibe end when you get into your car and drive off into the
sunrise? :)

There is more to life than raving, but a rave is more than just a party
(and no, that's not a veiled jab at Partyon).

be happy,

        O         ~    ~
         o    ~        ~               ~
          .   _/,_        ~         ~      ~
           . /o...\__//        FiSH ~ Rishad J. Quazi
             \_'__/``\`      rquazi@csws1.ic.sunysb.edu
        ~      \`          RQUAZI@SBCCVM.BITNET
           ~          .     ~    ~               ~  ~
           \/  .  .     .   \ \/        .      .
        ____\____._..___.____\/_______._

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 09:16:34 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 09:17:04 -0700
Subject: Lost item at the park Sunday
Status: 


Hi,

  I might have left a blue/green pair of shorts with the "SJ Sharks"
logo on it while at the park last Sunday.   Did anyone happen to pick
it up?   PSe Email me if so...

Thanx

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 10:27:14 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 10:18:51 PDT
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth
Status: 

>   rave? is that like zen? how much do i pay? and how many years does it take
>   to learn it?  partyon...susie (: 

    You may be onto something here.
    Zen is slow, slow is fine for some, but doesn't work for me.
    It tends to involve not-moving.
    Not-moving is not natural for me, and highly distracting.

    Rave is fast and works delightfully for me.
    Dancing into trance is wonderfully totally natural for me.

    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)
    



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 10:41:39 1993
From: wicked@netcom.com
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 10:42:08 PDT
Subject: Re: Resources for Malachy-net-empowerment and Handicapped computerists in
Status: 

	The World Institute on Disability (WID) has a ftp site. 

	Try netcom.com/pub/janina.

	All sorts of things including a document discussing the role of
telecommunications and disability.

	Markie  !)

 -- 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 10:52:43 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 10:52:34 PDT
Subject: life&raving
Status: 


>anyway, not much more to say that hasn't already been said, except i must
>reiterate THANKS LEE!!  without you, this never would have happened, and

None of it would have happened without the example and path already laid
out for me by Brian, or  without the resources made readily available to
me through SFRaves.  It was a team effort that came together naturally;
entropy in reverse.

Some people on this list might remember that in the days of Connection 1,
I was against the idea of SFRaves becoming anything more than an unbiased
forum for the exchange of information.  I think this was due to my 
paranoia toward power structures, social hierarchies, egos, etc.  I was
afraid the objective character of SFRaves would be compromised, along with
with its purpose.  Well, the truth is that all things tend to either evolve
or die.  SFRaves could of never remained (was it ever?) objective, and
why should it?  There is nothing preventing other lists from being
created with their own evolutionary paths.  Ultimately, knowledge,
information, and the ability to communicate it, is a powerful force.  And 
power can be used just as easily as it can be abused.  

This is what life is about; selfempowerment - making things happen in our
lives and in the world around us.  But what's really cool is this doesn't
have to come at the expense of others.  We can make each other powerful 
and as a result, make the world a more exciting and meaningful place to 
live in.

Every now & then someone inevitably posts the "There is more to life than
raving" statement.  One could ask; Is there more to life than family,
friends, community, spirituality, selfexploration, and connectivity with
our bodies, art, technology and nature?  Many of us have come into contact
with many of these things to varying degrees through raving and through
some of the activities that surround the rave scene.  At the same time,
We've been to enough shitty parties and encountered enough confusion to
realize that like everything, the scene is imperfect, made up of imperfect
people in an imperfect world.  Ideals are things we look toward while
reality is something we live in.  But like any self-fulfilling prophecy,
if enough people believe that an activity contains many of the ideals
and feelings that make life worth living, then these people *will*
incorporate many of these ideals and feelings back into that activity.  I 
know a few people whose lives have been positively transformed by the rave
scene, as imperfect as it may be.  People finding and helping to create a 
path that works for them, and perhaps others, is nothing to be scoffed at.

  "With the vast uncensorable network of communication media, obstacles
  to the free flow of information will become progressively more
  difficult to erect and enforce.  Traditional human power structures
  and their reign of darkness are about to be rendered obsolete.
  If humanity realizes its potential in time, we shall witness strong
  competition among individuals to be allowed to serve on humanity's
  research, development, and production teams.  People's sense of
  accomplishment will derive from showing their peers and demonstrating
  to the great intellectual integrity of Universe, which we speak of
  as God, that they vastly enjoy doing their best in the unselfish
  production of service for others rather than just for the survival
  needs of themselves and their families."
 
                                         R. Buckminster Fuller

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 11:07:09 1993
From: jeremias@MIT.EDU (Jeremy Grainger)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 93 14:20:08 0000
Subject: NOTneces.R*VE-REL:TONIGHT! Making Communities? Fax us!
Status: 

Subject: Call for Fax/Mail Art: An Act of Resistance:Making Community(ies)


Hello cybertribe:::

I'm involved in this thing. Thought that some of you might wanna contribute your
wisdom, creativity and community building!!
Peaceout, Jeremy (eeyore) {ne-raver, IDM-er}

>>>>>>FAX ART should be faxed to 617.451.2910 between October 5 and 23. 

Art work is being solicited for the Mail and Fax Art portion of an exhibition 
called _An Act of Resistance: Making Community(ies)_ at Boston's Mobius Gallery 
October 6-23.

All mail and fax art concerning the show's theme will be shown. 
Artwork by "nonartists" is especially encouraged!
Mail art can be in any form, size or shape and should be sent to: 

Arts/Resist Mail Art, 
P. O. Box 1136, Kendall Square, 
Cambridge, MA 02142.

There is no "deadline" persay. ALL mail rec'd during the show dates will be put 
in the gallery. Try to get it to us by the oepning date, so the maximum number 
of people can see it.

FAX ART should be faxed to 617.451.2910 between October 5 and 23. 
The organizers encourage sending fax art during the show's opening reception 
Wednesday, October 6, from 5 to 8 pm Eastern US time.

Mail and Fax art are part of a democratic, decentralized, global "networker" 
movement that seeks to link people and ideas on a grassroots level through 
direct exchange.

Mobius is located at 354 Congress St in Boston's Fort Point Channel district, 
near the South Station stop on the red line.

The juried portion of the exhibition features work by many New England artists 
engaged with political activism and is sponsored by the RESIST Foundation. 
RESIST, begun in 1967 to help fund the growing movement opposed to the Vietnam 
War, is celebrating its 25th anniversary of funding small, grassroots, social 
change organizations.

For more information: On Mail/Fax Art contact 617-242-2442 or Internet 
<jeremias@mit.edu>. On show details: Mobius: 617-542-7416. On RESIST call 
617-623-5110

Thanks in advance for your contribution(s)!

Jeremy Grainger 
for the ARTS/RESIST organizing committee 
<jeremias@mit.edu>

PS: Here's a listing of related events for those of you in the area.

The juried show includes work by: Anonymous, Joe Briganti, Buffalo Gals, Annete 
Dupon, Lydia Eccles, Roberta Hayes, Anne Rocheleau, Ellen Shub, Sarah Slive, 
Karen Kimmel and the Dispersion Project.

Wednesday, October 6, 5- 8 pm - Opening reception Gallery Talk by Buffalo Gals 
who will give a short presentation on their current art campaign to prevent 
installation of commercial-ridden televisions on the "T," the Boston subway.

Thursday, October 14, 8 pm - "Art that netWORKS" a talk by Chuck Welsh (aka net 
artist, the CrackerJack Kid), editor of the forthcoming anthology _The Eternal 
Network: A Mail Art Anthology_, due from the Univ. of Calgary Press next Spring.

Friday, October 15, 8 pm - Video and film presentations by social cahnge group's 
which have received funding from RESIST.

Saturday, October 16, 8 pm - An Evening of Haitian Culture with food, music and 
more. Coordinated by one of the juried artists, Roberta Hayes, whose work 
documents the Haitian refugee community in the area.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 14:56:48 1993
From: rpcaras@srv.PacBell.COM (Bob Carasik)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 14:56:41 PDT
Subject: Now what??
Status: 

> 
> Hey kids, fishy thoughts follow :)
> 
> I must agree with Sean in this matter. There is more to life than raving to be
> sure, but can't raving become an affector of a way of life? A way of life

Affector, even effector, but it ain't life itself.  It certainly has given
me a new perspective with which to look at the significance of what I do.
Raves have inspired me to do more dancing, more writing, less worrying.  And
I've met a lot of people.  But, like the guy who reported on Crash Worship &
Burning Man ( grigsby? ) said, the vibe can't stand still, it changes if you
just repeat it endlessly.  There's a rhythm that's right for each of us.  The
next step from raving seems to be different for every person, but a next step
there must be or it's just endless tweakin' each an' every weaken.  

I'm not
>gasp< unsubscribing or anything, but raves aren't new for me, so I try to 
pick events judiciously.  I've had great luck, what with the Bulltproof boat
party and Connection Earth back to back, so I'll probably lay out for about a 
month.  So keep it alive and thrive!  


AstroBoy

> rave? Does the vibe end when you get into your car and drive off into the
> sunrise? :)
> 
> There is more to life than raving, but a rave is more than just a party
> (and no, that's not a veiled jab at Partyon).


"so maybe you'll be happy / but even if you're not
there's more to life than that / Don't ask me what! "

The Matchmaker Song, Fiddler on the Roof

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 15:19:41 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 15:16:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: tv20
Status: 

hey lets invite jim gabbert and his tv20 dance party crew to a rave!
partyon...susie (:



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 15:40:17 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 15:39:52 PDT
Subject: the mothership is coming...
Status: 


Circle Star Theatre's billboard in San Carlos sez that George Clinton
is playing the Berkeley Community Theatre Halloween night...

Anyone else interested in going?  Sounds to me like the ideal
pre-party for a really late arrival at a rave...

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 16:09:47 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 6 Oct 1993 16:06:44 -0800
Subject: SJ Wednesdays!
Status: 

                       Subject:                               Time:15:23
  OFFICE MEMO          SJ Wednesdays!                         Date:10/6/93
Howdy disco citizens,

     This is a little note to let all of you know that a new weekly  called
MOTION will be starting on 10-13-93.  It will be held at 400 S. 1st ST. (the
side entrance at F/X).  This will not be like a regular club night.  It will be
a pumpin' dance night driven by your favorite SJ and SF DJs.

              Oct. 13                        Oct. 20                     Oct.
27
     ***********************************************               
                 DJs                             DJs                          
DJs                
               Loren                          Loren                     
Tamotsu  [ me 8*) ]
          Rick Preston                Harry Who?              Rick Preston
          Markie Mark                     Tony                         SPUN

             Visuals                        Visuals                     Visuals
          Optica-Lux                   Optica-Lux                   ?Mark#192#
     ************************************************

More of your favorite DJs are already signed up for the weeks to come so come
early and dance your cares away.  I will be at Deep Space on Thursday handing
out flyers and passes.  Please put this on your calendar and join us in SJ. 
Til' the trance is induced...

 Keep it Alive and Thrive                              T. Scot 








From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 16:32:41 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 6 Oct 1993 16:38:57 -0800
Subject: SJ Wednesdays!
Status: 

                       Subject:                               Time:15:23
  OFFICE MEMO          SJ Wednesdays!                         Date:10/6/93
Howdy disco citizens,

     This is a little note to let all of you know that a new weekly  called
MOTION will be starting on 10-13-93.  It will be held at 400 S. 1st ST. (the
side entrance at F/X).  This will not be like a regular club night.  It will be
a pumpin' dance night driven by your favorite SJ and SF DJs.

        Oct. 13                        Oct. 20                     Oct. 27 
***********************************************               
            DJs                             DJs                           DJs  
             
          Loren                          Loren                Tamotsu  [ me 8*)
]
     Rick Preston                Harry Who?              Rick Preston
     Markie Mark                     Tony                         SPUN

        Visuals                        Visuals                     Visuals
     Optica-Lux                   Optica-Lux                   ?Mark#192#
************************************************

More of your favorite DJs are already signed up for the weeks to come so come
early and dance your cares away.  I will be at Deep Space on Thursday handing
out flyers and passes.  Please put this on your calendar and join us in SJ. 
Til' the trance is induced...

 Keep it Alive and Thrive                              T. Scot 








From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 17:45:59 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 93 17:46:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth 
Status: 

From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
>>   rave? is that like zen? how much do i pay? and how many years does it take
>>   to learn it?  partyon...susie (: 
>
>    You may be onto something here.
>    Zen is slow, slow is fine for some, but doesn't work for me.

Actually, there are both fast and slow schools of zen. I prefer the 130bpm
trancy school of zen. Instant enlightenment -- just add liquid.

Nonetheless, it is important to remeber that rave is like a shit stick!
And don't forget to shake your bhodi!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 17:47:21 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 93 17:47:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Lost item at the park Sunday 
Status: 

>   I might have left a blue/green pair of shorts with the "SJ Sharks"
> logo on it while at the park last Sunday.   Did anyone happen to pick
> it up?   PSe Email me if so...

Wow. musta been one helluva party if you lost your shorts. :-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 18:27:35 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 18:28:02 PDT
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth
Status: 

Ben Wing said:
> 
> In article <Pine.3.07.9310051627.A7384-a100000@sutro> you write:
> |
> |
> |rave? is that like zen? how much do i pay? and how many years does it take
> |to learn it?  partyon...susie (: 
> 
> A Zen monk was once given Ecstasy, and remarked about the state it
> induced:
> 
> "It took me 20 years to achieve the same state through meditation; but
> I'm glad I did it my way."
> 
> ben
> 
	I think that for *anything*, if you spent 20 years doing
something and then realized it could be done quicker you'd say, "I'm
glad I did it my way." I sure would -- I wouldn't want to make my 20
years feel worthless.


-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct  6 22:12:18 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 22:12:46 PDT
Subject: Re: 20 Years To Ecstasy
Status: 

In reply to something Ben posted , Sameer said: 
> 
> Ben Wing said:
> > 
> > A Zen monk was once given Ecstasy, and remarked about the state it
> > induced:
> > 
> > "It took me 20 years to achieve the same state through meditation; but
> > I'm glad I did it my way."
> > 
> 	I think that for *anything*, if you spent 20 years doing
> something and then realized it could be done quicker you'd say, "I'm
> glad I did it my way." I sure would -- I wouldn't want to make my 20
> years feel worthless.
> 

 On the other hand , now the monk can do it whenever he wants to , and 
nobody will arrest him for doing it! And , he can probably shut it off a lot
quicker than someone who's dosed and biochemically committed for the next
x amount of hours. 

 			Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

 
 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 01:02:53 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 01:02:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Divinity
Status: 

	From pasque@ucdavis.edu Tue Oct  5 18:39:51 1993
	Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 18:39:51 -0700 (PDT)
	From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
	Subject: Divinity
	To: The Ravin' Peoples <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
	Mime-Version: 1.0
	Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
	Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	This from the UCD's California Aggie:
		According to reports, Saturday at approximately 3 a.m., James
	Edwin Stubbs,23, was observed selling balloons of gas at a "rave" party in
	a parking lot of the Rocknasium on Olive Drive.  Stubbs was found in
	possession of a nitrous oxide tank, balloons, a baggie containing 24
	tablets, which tested positive for opiate and methedrin, and $276 in
	cash.  The controlled substances and cash were taken as evidence, Stubbs
	was booked at the Davis Police Department and lodged at Yolo County Jail.


	This makes the Davis Police's biggest bust list I'm sure and now you know
	why "raves" get such a bad rap from the police.

	Gioni Pasquinelli
	pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



	no one would have been caught had it not been for good
	old fashoned nitrous greed.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 01:11:36 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 01:11:33 -0700
Subject: orbital/aphex twin phans
Status: 


	don't want to drive to la for the show?
	donna worry... plans are afoot.  
	i will be in touch...

caliban


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 07:46:21 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 7:46:52 PDT
Subject: South Bay Lunch
Status: 


Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
today's SFR South Bay Lunch ...

When: Thursday  
Time: 12.00 noon
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
  Northbound: Past San Antonio Road 
  Southbound: Past University Avenue 

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Park in the first
  carpark to your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll , behind the round baseball fence.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 08:53:45 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 8:53:38 PDT
Subject: Re: 20 Years To Ecstasy
Status: 

Larry:
> 
>  On the other hand , now the monk can do it whenever he wants to ,

Maybe.  The conditions under which Zen monks develop the ability to
enter altered states of consciousness involve cutting off most
sensory input and normal thought processes.   You don't see many monks
hobnobbing about town, or at raves, because the abilities they have
developed over 20 years are integreted with a lifestyle that cuts them
off from the more obvious aspects of human interaction.  This seems to
severly limit the ways in which they can share their abilities and energy
with others.  I wish there were some monks on the net who could enlighten 
us further about this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 09:47:29 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 7 Oct 1993 09:40:36 -0800
Subject: Re: 20 Years To Ecstasy
Status: 

                       Subject:                               Time:9:09
  OFFICE MEMO          RE>20 Years To Ecstasy                 Date:10/7/93
Hmmm...

>The conditions under which Zen monks develop the ability to
>enter altered states of consciousness involve cutting off most
>sensory input and normal thought processes.

TRUE

>This seems to severly limit the ways in which they can 
>share their abilities and energy with others.

One of the many reasons why these monks or anyone else meditates is to gain
better understanding of themselves and there world.  All be it true that in the
process of meditation they are withdrawn, in the world of here and now they use
their insights to guide them while fully conscious.  Their abilites are very
personal and private but the energy they exude (sp?) will be present in their
waking state as well.  Just as we (I) can not fully share our (my) experience
while captured in the strobing lights and sonic impulses,  but can later walk
around and share socially.

T. Scot       ********************************************




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 09:53:55 1993
From: glenn.fajardo@aldus.com (Glenn Fajardo,USA)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1993 09:52:28 PDT
Subject: FW: Divinity and Connection Earth
Status: 


    >Zen is slow, slow is fine for some, but doesn't work for me.
    >It tends to involve not-moving.
    >Not-moving is not natural for me, and highly distracting.

Hmm... Zen is neither slow nor fast.  It is about awareness of the here and
now.  It is about the realization that one is alive and is a vital part of
this universe this second, this instant in time. Zen awareness is that
moment when you KNOW you are trancing to the groove. When you become aware
that you are one with the music, the people, the environment that you
inhabit.

Peace!

Tigger
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Andy Nourse on Wed, Oct 6, 1993 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth
To: Glenn Fajardo,USA

>   rave? is that like zen? how much do i pay? and how many years does it
take
>   to learn it?  partyon...susie (: 

    You may be onto something here.
    Zen is slow, slow is fine for some, but doesn't work for me.
    It tends to involve not-moving.
    Not-moving is not natural for me, and highly distracting.

    Rave is fast and works delightfully for me.
    Dancing into trance is wonderfully totally natural for me.

    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)    :^)
    




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Message-Id: <9310061718.AA02914@ wco.ftp.com>
To: susie%sutro.sfsu.edu@igate.aldus.com
Subject: Re: Divinity and Connection Earth
From: andy%wco.ftp.com@igate.aldus.com  (Andy Nourse)
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From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 10:04:57 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 10:04:46 PDT
Subject: looking for SF rental
Status: 


My friend Graham is looking for a shared rental in SF, preferably in the
Haight, Lower Haight, or Castro.  Graham is 26 years old.  He's a very nice,
very personable, very responsible, very intelligent raver type, and he's
interested in finding roommates that have a similar mindset.

If you have a room available, please call Graham at 415-826-3932.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 10:50:44 1993
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Date: 07 Oct 1993 10:50:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Monks & Such
Status: 

I would imagine that Zen Meditation is quite similar to Transcendental
  Meditation, from a subconscious point of view; I did TM for about 2
  years; had 2 really good 'trips' during that time while meditating;

Yes, it IS possible to practice meditation and interact publicly;  you just
  have to get your timing right so you can have about 1hr of quiet time
  per day, when no one is talking to you and the phone isn't ringing.

Don't know what the timeload is for Zen Med, but TM only requires 20 minutes
  in the morning and 20 minutes in the afternoon. It really does work, but
  requires discipline (same mentality as practicing the piano)

Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 11:22:59 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 11:14:40 PDT
Subject: Re: 20 Years To Ecstasy
Status: 

>   Larry:
>   > 
>   >  On the other hand , now the monk can do it whenever he wants to ,
>   
>   Maybe.  The conditions under which Zen monks develop the ability to
>   enter altered states of consciousness involve cutting off most
>   sensory input

    Which is usually rather difficult to do in a large, noisy, city.
    Sensory *overload* can have the same effect, and is much easier.
    
>   and normal thought processes.

    hee hee hee

>                                               You don't see many monks
>   hobnobbing about town, or at raves, because the abilities they have
>   developed over 20 years are integreted with a lifestyle that cuts them
>   off from the more obvious aspects of human interaction.  This seems to
>   severly limit the ways in which they can share their abilities and energy
>   with others.

    What we are developing here is a way to get there without having to
    live the life of a monk.  We *can* and *do* share our energy, but we
    do not surrender our individuality or our creativity.
    
    Let this combination interact with the world and it *will* move.

>                I wish there were some monks on the net who could enlighten 
>   us further about this.

    Can we get some of them to a rave?  We know that the effects of
    psychedelics on them are similar to what they achived on their own,
    howzabout the effects of the music/dance/vibe?
    
    The sacraments are a way of giving the body/mind permission to do
    what it wants to do anyway.  When the music gets going, my body and
    mind no longer wait to get permission.
    


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 11:54:20 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 11:17:09 PDT
Subject: Re: 20 Years To Ecstasy
Status: 

> You don't see many monks
>hobnobbing about town, or at raves, because the abilities they have
>developed over 20 years are integreted with a lifestyle that cuts them
>off from the more obvious aspects of human interaction.  This seems to
>severly limit the ways in which they can share their abilities and energy
>with others.

Maybe, but monks aren't about converting people like christians or other 
religions/philosophies.  Zen and Taoism are personal paths that you seek
and travel on your own.  If you want to learn you seek them out.  They
(Zen buddists) limit contact and involvement in the normal affairs of 
men as part of their philosophy of non-doing and getting out of the
inherantly ratty rat-race of suffering.  Taoists only sever contact to
limit distractions in meditation and study and to commune with nature, or
the great Tao, not to get away from fellow man, who is just acting as man
does by running the rat-race.  Now back to your normal programming.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 12:07:02 1993
From: Jeffrey Moore <jmoore@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 7 Oct 1993 12:05:46 -0700
Subject: Re:  Monks & Such
Status: 

Zen is more a way of life than a trick to acheiving altered states of
conciousness. A person who follows the teachings of zen is going to reflect
that in everything they do. In that respect, it is a 24 hour a day thing.
You don't just turn it on and off. The meditation aspect of zen is more a
tool in self exploration that the monks use. Other practioners of zen use
other methods. In fact most of the traditional Japanese arts (like flower
arranging, swordsmanship, archery, etc.) are similar kinds of tools for the
lay zen practioners.  I recommend Eugen Herrigel's book "Zen in the Art of
Archery". It helps clarify what zen's relationship is with everyday life and
the things we do every day.

-Jeff

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 12:08:36 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 12:10:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: north bay/east bay lunch
Status: 

Are we ever gonna set one up??? Anyone interested?
Anyone work in the city??:)

c

-- 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 13:40:41 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 13:41:30 PDT
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
Status: 


Another light weekend, although the next two weeks seem pretty full.
Garth, Jeno and Thomas are supposed to be down in LA Saturday, which
explains part of the event deficit.  Maybe this is a good weekend to
read a book, do some volunteer work, create something, enjoy nature,
help a friend, make the world a better place.  

Weeklies which have gotten good reviews include Your Sisters' House,
Deep Space, Mission Rock, Corduroy City, Boogie Buffet, Pepper,
Mushroom Jazz, and Together.  If anyone likes any of the others,
let us know!

Try the Be-At info line (415.626.4087) for daily updates on clubs and
parties - it's usually fairly complete, and also includes clubs with
other kinds of music - hiphop, reggae, funk, etc.

To delete yourself from the calendar mailing list, read the instructions
at the bottom.  (don't embarrass yourself by sending a message to the
entire list - never send mail to sfraves-calendar@techno.stanford.edu!).


*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     	    Updated: 10.07.93
*****************************************************************************

Saturday, October 9th - Energy
	Doc Martin  Ghost  Mojo Hand  Willy Wonka  Josh  Alfie
	Tattooing/body piercing/fruit & salad bars/smart bars/alcohol bars
	3-d visuals/3-d glasses
	[I think it's at the Trocadero (520 4th St) -dc]
	415-995-4787	916-557-5845	18+, $10 before 11

Friday, October 15th - Orb: an ambient experience
	DJs Buck, Markie !), Dutch, Ernie Munson, Alex Paterson (of the Orb),
		Lewis (London), Reese (NYC).
	Technorganic visuals by Craig Larson, Pure, Synergy :)
	earth-base performance: space-time continuum, future kulture, hawke
	at the Warfield, 982 Market, SF.  10pm-4am.  Open to all ages.
	tix $20 at Ameba, tweekin', Rough Trade, bpm; primal (berkeley);
	makoto (sacramento); upstairs (san jose). (also Bass if you pay more).
	415.974.6726	916.484.4110	510.464.4670	408.236.3731

Saturday, October 16th - Liquid Air 
	DJs Tamara, Laura, Jon D., Cris
	Audio by Sound Vision
	info: 415.487.8497	

Saturday, October 16th - Passage
	Noel  Ghost  Dave Alga  Dolphi  Rob  Ted
	510-505-8841

Saturday, October 16th - It's A Small World
  	Richie (UK), Carlos, Ghost, Dutch, Spinner, Frank Nitty
  	415/245-5066, 510/716-2688, 408/488-RUEN

Saturday, October 16th - Revival
	Join us for the revival of the psychedelic groove
	Jeno  Spun  Tony  Doran  Markie Mark  
	510.287.8778

Saturday, October 16th - Diverse City
	Jon Williams  La Paix + guests
	415-469-2027

Saturday, October 23rd - Basics
	An unexpected smile, a spirit awakened, a life transformed
	Tony  Doran  Josh  Spun  Jeno  Jon Williams
	415-905-9629

Saturday, October 23rd - The Cat in the Hat 
	Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
	$10 before 11.
	415.995.4646	510.464.3008	408.236.2211

Saturday, October 23rd - benefit for the Coalition on Homelessness
	presented by YSH, TAZ & Aurgasm

Saturday, October 23rd - Wicked - 415.512.5713

Thursday, October 28th - Surface Magazine Monster Masquerade Ball
	Jan Cooley, Neon Leon, Aaron O. spinning
	DV8, 540 Howard.  doors at 10pm, $7 w/invite.

Saturday, October 30th - The Finale of Funky Tekno Tribe
  	Doran, Simon, Garth, Graeme, Tony, Spun, Thomas, Jeno, DJ Dan
  	415/266-8215

Saturday, October 30th or Sunday, October 31st - Casper (rumored)

Saturday, November 13th - Circa '93 w/Orbital, Aphex Twin and Moby (in SoCal)
	email circa@netcom.com for info. :)

Saturday, November 20th - Come Together

Penelope's Web 2 - at the same location as the first, more details to follow...
	415-765-7671

Tribal Funk - 415.756.1531 - details to follow

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other goodwill 
	thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by flyers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their appropriateness 
in being on the list, let me know.  Also let me know when any of them stop...

---Thursday------------------------------------------------------------------

SFR South Bay Lunch - noon at Greer Park in Palo Alto.  
	e-mail larryc@netcom.com for directions.
YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-765-7670
	[10/7 - Rebecca, Nadeeah, Susan]
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - Rick Preston, others
Universal Groove - Carlos, Ghost, Dutch, Dave Alga, Duran (sic), Bones
	9pm-5am, $5.  415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax - Acid Jazz w/Harry Who (San Jose)
Eclipse - 2520 Camino Diablo, Walnut Creek. open till 4, 18+
Delusions of Grandeur - Jon Williams, Robbie & Scott Hardkiss.	Ambience 
	by SpaceTime Continuum.  Visuals by Synergy.  10pm - 6am, 1015 Folsom. 
Housing Project - DJs Jeno & Josh. 9-330am @ the EndUp, 401 6th @ harrison 21+

---Friday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Mission Rock - guest DJs on patio, Alex & Kevin downstairs 
	817 China Basin - $5 - 21+
	[10/8  - Thomas]
	[10/15 - Gavan]
	[10/22 - Neon Leon]
	[10/29 - Jon Williams]
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
Corduroy City - $5 - 11-6am - 415.974.9715
Dig! - Cleo's Cafe @ Haight & Pierce. Acid Jazz & deep house.
	6pm-?, no cover, all ages.

---Saturday------------------------------------------------------------------

Lost It - Steve Mitchel, Dutch, Richie, La Paix - 2am-noon - $5 - DNA Lounge
Housing Project - 6am-2pm - DJ Dani & guests - End Up 401 6th @ Harrison, 21+ 
	[might be nighttime now -dc]
Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - 4pm-8pm - cleo's, 698 Haight  415.487.6246
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762
Rhythm - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, Markie - 177 Townsend - 21+ - 415-281-3344
Diverse City - 	415-469-2027
The Fridge - on hold - 415-487-6305
Aurgasm - on hold - collective T.A.Z. - 415.974.9363

---Sunday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 6am-2pm - 415-979-8845
EndUp from 6am - 6th & Harrison
Cleo's Cafe - Haight & Pierce - informal YSH gathering - 2pm-8pm - free!
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Spundae - various guest DJs - 55 Natoma  
Drift - the ambient club - spike's, 8th & Minna, 10 till 2 am
Tranceformation - 201 9th @ Howard - $3, 21+ - 415-267-6189
Punch Drunk - Cal's, 2001 Union St @ Buchanan - 6pm - 415-776-7036
Sunday Joy - 8th & Kirkham (in the Sunset) - 2pm-7pm - $2
Deep Forest - Carlos, Dutch, & Guests - 7am-? - 18+ - $3 - 415.679.8070
Flapjacks - by Curious George - 18+, 6am-3pm, $4 incl. pancakes. 510-505-8841

---Monday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pepper.  Deep House with Buck, Josh, Chris Lum. 668 Haight, 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 
	[10/11 - Jan Cooley & The Baroness]
	[10/18 - Ernie & Shakra]
Mushroom Jazz - acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is, Alex, Kevin
	$3, 9pm-3am.  Club Oasis, 278 11th St, 21+. 415-905-8811
Depth Chamber - temporarily on hold - 9-2am, 21+, (415)241-1560
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@Montgomery) in San Jose.

---Tuesday-------------------------------------------------------------------

Together - Simon, Garth, guests - Big Heart City (339 Jessie) 415-979-8825
Jus' Pucker - House, Funk, Disco - the Bird Cage, 4822 Telegraph. 9pm-2am, 21+.

---Wednesday-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mystery School - 525 Harrison @ 1st (Sound Factory) - 21+, 11pm - sunrise
	415-337-4905
Tilt - nadeeah, jan cooley, aaron o., david harness, dani, larry reed.
	11pm-5am, 21+.  540 Howard (DV8).  415.957.1730	
Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X)  
	[10/13 - Loren, Rick Preston, Markie Mark]
	[10/20 - Loren, Harry Who?, Tony]
	[10/27 - Tamotsu, Rick Preston, Spun]
Java - 2730 Harrison @ 16th - 415.905.6443

---Connection 2 Tapes--------------------------------------------------------
4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house from SFR's party in March
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr 
contact Bob Ramstad (boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com) 
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund 

---RADIO SHOWS---------------------------------------------------------------
Friday night - midnite-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
        (mixing from 12-1, other tasty electreats from 1-3:30am)
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
	[possibly Garth & Tony soon, tix for Funky Tekno Tribe]
Tuesdays 7:30-10:00pm - Pete Gracious, KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351 and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe/uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

(type 'u' in place of the '*' - i've taken out the 'u' so this message
 passes thru majordomo's filter)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 13:48:10 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 13:19:19 PDT
Subject: Re:  Monks & Such
Status: 

In fact most of the traditional Japanese arts (like flower
arranging, swordsmanship, archery, etc.) are similar kinds of tools for the
lay zen practioners.  I recommend Eugen Herrigel's book "Zen in the Art of
Archery". It helps clarify what zen's relationship is with everyday life and
the things we do every day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel it's important to point out that Zen isn't Japanese in origin, but
Chinese (Ch'an) and it is an off-shoot from traditional buddhism (what's
the name for that, Pali?, someting else?) of India.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 14:02:15 1993
From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 13:58:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Zen and the Art of Raving
Status: 


  My favorite zen koan:
   
 "Chopping wood before enlightenment, chopping wood after enlightenment"

  Modified for this list:

  "Chopping wood before raving, chopping wood after raving."




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 14:40:57 1993
From: glenn.fajardo@aldus.com (Glenn Fajardo,USA)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1993 14:45:39 PDT
Subject: RE: Zen and the Art of Raving
Status: 

Shouldn't that be "Raving before enlightenment, raving after enlightenment"
??

Or should it be anything at all?  
:-)

Peace

Tigger
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Arthur Chandler on Thu, Oct 7, 1993 2:36 PM
Subject: Zen and the Art of Raving
To: Glenn Fajardo,USA


  My favorite zen koan:
   
 "Chopping wood before enlightenment, chopping wood after enlightenment"

  Modified for this list:

  "Chopping wood before raving, chopping wood after raving."





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From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc%sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu@igate.aldus.com>
Subject: Zen and the Art of Raving
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From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 15:20:04 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 15:19:53 PDT
Subject: Re: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
Status: 

> Another light weekend, although the next two weeks seem pretty full.
> Garth, Jeno and Thomas are supposed to be down in LA Saturday, which
> explains part of the event deficit.

For a quick fix, Mission Rock could be fun.  Last weekend Garth kicked
with a long killer set.  The week before that featured Markie.  This
friday it'll be Thomas.  Things have definately picked up there lately.
And it still leaves the rest of the weekend to
> read a book, do some volunteer work, create something, enjoy nature,
> help a friend, make the world a better place.  

- leg of eel

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 15:29:16 1993
From: marianne lu <meem@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 15:29:11 -0700
Subject: mailing list
Status: 


Hi can I get on the mailing list for sfraves?  

Marianne Lu
meem@leland
P.O. Box 8130 
Stanford CA 94309


thanks

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 16:00:00 1993
From: chinacat@netcom.com (J. Petersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 16:00:29 PDT
Subject: What I have to say about Zen ;-)
Status: 



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 16:03:41 1993
From: Harry Duran <hduran@UMDNJ.EDU>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 19:01:08 -0500 (EDT)
Subject: meditationvs Ex..
Status: 

I may have bombed the prior message that i was sending

please forgive me if a garbled glurp comes over in advance of this post

the use of ecstatogenic meditative and dancing techniques is well known to
many western people as a curiosity, or of anthropological interest.

now the purpose of these techniques is to reach a state of awareness beyond
the egocenttric dualistic view

lo and behold when one is exing a similar state is reached (or at least that has been my experience YMMV)

does that devalue the meditative experience? i think not the whole purpose is 
to become a more loving and compassionate being, not just trippy.
But lo and behold a similar state is reached on Ex? Hmmm.

similarly transcendance of self and psychic communion with others, perceptions
freed from time and space referentials all can be had with both.

The power of meditation is that it provides real and enduring change. 

The ecstatogens point the way and enable one to understand the meaning of 
certain meditative terminologies if one is inclined to use them in this way.

the rational end enlightened use of ecstatogens is unfamiliar territory
in the culture at large. My belief is that designed spiritual experiences
can be had at raves with the combination of music dancing alone (much like
the use of these techniques in the 13th century by the Sufis of Turkey).
However, adding an enhancer to the mix may also boost and open the path much quicker. Or so it seems. Nevertheless, responsible use of these agents
is key and their real power is in the way they can shape and alter the psyche.

Nuff senseless blathering from me these are my own rantings and no one elses,

Nyaaaaa, WAZZUPDOQ???????????????
 


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 16:43:56 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 16:35:17 PDT
Subject: Re: north bay/east bay lunch
Status: 

>   Anyone work in the city??:)

    I do!  Near 4th and Market.
    Also near lots of good Chinese/Vietnamese/Thai/Burmese/etc restaurants.

                        &andy
                        


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 16:56:14 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 16:54:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dm
Status: 

email me privately but does anyone want to go see depeche mode with me?
or call 621 7185
partyon...susie(:



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 17:58:16 1993
From: hyland@netcom.com (Tim Hyland)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 17:58:46 PDT
Subject: Survival Research
Status: 

Sorry to waste the bandwidth, but I seem to remember someone on the
list talking about SRL.  Does anyone out there know how to get in
touch with them (phone number and/or contact name)?  Thanks.

Share and Enjoy,

Tim

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 18:52:17 1993
From: phred@well.sf.ca.us (Fred Heutte)
Date: 	Thu, 7 Oct 1993 18:49:41 -0700
Subject: Re: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
Status: 

On the club front, Susie and I went to Spundae in the basement of the DV8
building (55 Natoma) and had a pretty good time last Sunday.

However, last night I went to Tilt at DV8 (thanks to just missing my
flight from SFO, but that's another story) but thought it was pretty
un-happening.  

I also saw a listing in the Bay Guardian for 'Reality' on Wednesday
night at 1190 Folsom, but it's definitely not happening.

Finally, although it's not rave-related, I had a really good time at
Nickie's (460 Haight) on Tuesday night with a DJ playing a variety of
African stuff -- some soukous, a little in the Salif Keita vein, some
mbaqanga -- and a small but enthusiastically dancing crowd.  The same
DJ is supposed to be at an event at 1015 Folsom on Sundays starting
later this month -- and that could mean the next time I come to town
I just set up camp at 1015 on Sunday morning and stay for the duration :)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct  7 19:06:31 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 18:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Survival Research
Status: 

> Sorry to waste the bandwidth, but I seem to remember someone on the
> list talking about SRL.  Does anyone out there know how to get in
> touch with them (phone number and/or contact name)?  Thanks.
> 
> Share and Enjoy,
> 
> Tim

I saw a mini-SRL performance at 650 Howard only a couple of months ago. 
They mentioned a full-scale performance which would be happening in
Oakland, possibly in October.  Anyone know more about this? (Sorry, I
don't have their contact #.  Why do you need to get in touch with them?)

//////////{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[<<<<<232>>>>>]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\\\\


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 02:26:41 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 02:26:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Survival Research
Status: 

	i have heard that mark pauline and other srl
	folx really like to put down the rave scene.
	they think it's stupid.

caliban


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 02:47:49 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 02:47:44 -0700
Subject: new muzik for caliban!
Status: 


	just picked up some cd's....

	a comp called /the secret life of trance/ on rising
	high produuctions.  of special note on the disc is
	hardfloor 'hardtrance acperiance 1', sequential
	'prophet' and spicelab 'quicksand.'  the barbarella
	thing is great too.

	a four trak cd from polygon window (aphex twin).
	'quoth' is the title trak, hsa two mixes, and is
	pretty good.  'iketa' is a great trak, and 'bike
	pump meets bucket' is terrific, more pumping and
	funky that i would have imagined would come from
	this guy... nice distorted kickdrum.

	and finally orbital's /orbital2/.  it starts out
	with a minute and a half of lt. worf's "where time
	becomes a loop" repeated over and over, two different
	trax, one left, one right, slightly out of phase.
	direct rippoff from steve reich's landmark 'come
	out', from like 1968 or something, but i am not 
	bagging the orbital attempt at all. let's just 
	call it quotation.  the whole thing is dripping
	with wonderful emax2 stuff.  they are really good
	with their use of delay, wich is about my favorite 
	element in this sort of music.  also, some songs 
	have *progressions*, which i dig too.  a fantastic
	follow up to the first disc, maybe even better!


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 07:01:06 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 07:01:32 -0700
Subject: October - C, it is ugly 8)
Status: 

Just as I expected, October will prove to be a better month for parties, as
far as this year is concerned.  There are two new clubs opening up. 

(Wednesdays starting Oct. 13th) Motion - 400 S. 1st Street in San Jose
$3 before 11:30, $5 thereafter.

Lineup:
Oct 13 - DJ's Lauren, Rick Preston, & Markie Mark
(Loren is the latest in a line of great new up-n-coming DJ's.   Check him out!)

Oct 20 - DJ's Lauren, Harry Who, & Tony

Oct 27 - DJ's Tamotsu, Rick Preston, & Spun

Info: 408-236-3787


There is also a new Friday thang going down (in SF), but I have few
details.  From what I understand though it will be very fresh, and very
new.  Keep your eyes alert for more info as I get a hold of it.


(The rest is just my early morning ramblings...bandwidth!?!  What bandwidth?)

Once again, October will be the ugly month.  There is soo much going on
that you had better have a job, or inherit some cash if you want to go to
all of the events coming up.  Especially near the end of the month.  The
big off-your-face-nights will be the weekend of Haloween.  This madness
will start on a Fri. (the 29th).  Wicked I thought was gonna be on the 23rd
but it seems that there will be something on the 29th as well.  Along with
that you have the 30th with soo many parties and nonsense that there will
surely be casualties :).  And then on the 31st more banality with the boat
party (I've already reserved my tix, if U wanna go you'd watch closely when
they go on sale).  So with all of that going on I have decided to double my
insurance policy.  I should be rather limp come Monday, so I've already
given notice to my supe that the 1st of Nov. is a "mental health day", so I
won't be coming to work!  I can't wait to see the video for the next few
weeks (Nitty Gritty will be in the house roving to every party and getting
the higlights, and lo-lites).

Pace out,
John


================================================================
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed
or numbered!..." - No. 6
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 07:27:24 1993
From: davey@ux5.lbl.gov (davey hudson)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 07:27:19 PDT
Subject: East Bay Clubs
Status: 


Hi!

I'm kinda new to the scene, are there any clubs in
the EB (Berkeley/Oakland) area? 

thanks,

davey

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 08:52:00 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 93 08:51:51 -0700
Subject: Re: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
Status: 



Cordury City should be worth checking out tonite.  Rick Preston is 
playing from about 3am - 7am.








:-)
vivianm

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 08:54:14 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 8:54:45 PDT
Subject: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 

	I don't know if this may be too early to start planning, but:

	How's 'bout a pre-Orb SFR dinner next Friday? Hopefully
someplace where it doesn't end up costing me $14!! The post-Connection
Earth dinner was *loads* of fun, even though it was expensive.

-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 09:55:07 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 10:54:36 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: new muzik for caliban!
Status: 

> 	a four trak cd from polygon window (aphex twin).
> 	'quoth' is the title trak, hsa two mixes, and is
> 	pretty good.  'iketa' is a great trak, and 'bike
> 	pump meets bucket' is terrific, more pumping and
> 	funky that i would have imagined would come from
> 	this guy... nice distorted kickdrum.

Look around and see if you can find either the domestic or the import with a
"7" in the serial number.  It has one extra track that is better than the
previous four.  Hard as 20 tons of granite.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 10:48:10 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 10:09:17 PDT
Subject: Re: new muzik for caliban!
Status: 

I just got some new CDs too.  Twitch, volumes 4-8.  Great stuff Mike and Jon.
Do you select songs you want to remix or do people/labels request it or both.
If you select it, our tastes coincide very well.  There are several tracks
that I had been trying to I.D. for a while now and I was very happy to hear
them when I was listening to the discs for the first time, I know what they
are now.  I feel I realy got a great deal too.  5 disks for $40 - includes
tax.  Wow!  Can't beat that with a stick.  Thanks guys, and keep up the good
work.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 11:10:31 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 11:10:20 PDT
Subject: October - C, it is ugly 8)
Status: 


| Just as I expected, October will prove to be a better month for
| parties, as far as this year is concerned.  There are two new clubs
| opening up.
| 
| (Wednesdays starting Oct. 13th) Motion - 400 S. 1st Street in San Jose
| $3 before 11:30, $5 thereafter.

Not to pick nits, but this isn't a new club, it's a new event.  400 S.
1st St is F/X.

| Lineup:
| Oct 13 - DJ's Lauren, Rick Preston, & Markie Mark
| (Loren is the latest in a line of great new up-n-coming DJ's. Check him out!)

| Oct 20 - DJ's Lauren, Harry Who, & Tony

Again, not to pick nits, but I believe this is Lorenzo, a friend of
mine who works at Tower Records Mtn View, is a DJ, and is the one who
told me about Motion earlier in the week.

Bob

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 11:28:09 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 11:28:00 PDT
Subject: YSH
Status: 


After being gone for a while (btw, I was unsubscribed for a couple of
weeks, if anything happened you want me to know about, pls send email)
I decided that I ** had ** to make YSH.

I was a bit disappointed to hear it would be at Cleo's, after hearing
negatives on the space from previous times.  I resolved to go anyway,
mainly because I had bagged on the previous Cleo's deals and figured
that it was pretty lame for me to bag on the space even though I had
never been in it.

Nice cafe, clean, no hassles, good people running it / working there.
Got there early, had a double espresso, read the Guardian and SF
Weekly... but really couldn't imagine a YSH in that space.

WRONGO.  Had a great time, Susan played a very trippy set, followed by
Rebecca with one of the most bizarre sets I've ever heard (I think I
say this every time I see her spin, it was wonderful!) and Cleo was
hospitable above and beyond the call of duty.

So where was everybody?  Saw Sean, Brian (for 2 seconds), Monicat,
Bryce... a good time for the intrepid / determined adventurer.

Yowsa!
Bob

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 12:40:57 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:32:29 PDT
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 


>           I don't know if this may be too early to start planning, but:
>   
>           How's 'bout a pre-Orb SFR dinner next Friday? Hopefully
>   someplace where it doesn't end up costing me $14!! The post-Connection
>   Earth dinner was *loads* of fun, even though it was expensive.

    Sounds good to me.
    For cheap+good+close+notwhatyoueateveryday food
    we could try Tu Long on 6th nr Market.
    It looks like a dive, but the food's great,
    and entrees are around $5.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 13:01:29 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 09:17:23 CST
Subject: Las Vegas
Status: 

Are there any raverz out there in Las Vegas ?

Peace.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<<GOLDEN BOY.CYBERTRIBE>>                             deb9@pop.cwru.edu
              
                          "Forget your name"
                        "Just close your eyes"
                             "Go insane"
                            

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 13:12:35 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 13:12:22 -0700
Subject: You Sister's House Oct 14
Status: 

Hi all,

I *just* found out I'm scheduled to spin at Your Sister's House next
Thursday from 2am to 3am.  Rebecca, Tara, and Dani are also on for
the night.

Anyone who brings me caffiene-containing items will be given a massive 
hug and a big kiss as I will be coming straight from my flight (getting
in to SFO around 12.30 am on a Delta Airlines flight fron Dallas, for 
anyone who cares).

Don't forget:  Orb show the 15th and Liquid Air on the 16th (NOT the 15th).

See you all in a week!

Love and community,

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 13:20:15 1993
From: Handi-boy <jshiple@media.mit.edu>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 16:20:07 EDT
Subject: Moby/Orbital/Aphex dates
Status: 

Thanks to Fluid for sending this my way...

Apologies if you've already seen this:

Forward as you see fit...

> Article 15423 of alt.rave:
> Path: news.udel.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink.bc.ca!a9188
> From: Lane_Dunlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Lane Dunlop)
> Newsgroups: alt.rave
> Subject: NASA - See The Light Tour dates (was Moby et al)
> Date: 8 Oct 93 19:20:00 GMT
> Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
> Lines: 34
> Distribution: world
> Message-ID: <30218@mindlink.bc.ca>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: rsoft.rsoft.bc.ca
> 
> Hello all. I promised I would do it, so here it is, the tour schedule for
> Moby/Orbital/Aphex Twin tour. The tour is called NASA - See the Light Tour.
> We are bringing some lights and plently of visuals along with us. We have two
> dj's traveling with us, plus I believe that we will be using some of the best
> local dj's from each city. I think one of our dj's is Vapor Space and the
> other is one of the Utah Saints. When I get all the details, I will post
> them. There is also a tour hotline. It's the NASA number and I might have it
> here somewhere. Yes, it's 1 800 357 1474. Like I said, when I know more, I'll
> let you know. Also, please keep in mind that this is a tour and as such is
> subject to change at the whim of anyone involved. You know how it is.
> 
> October 29     Washington, DC      Buzz
> October 30     New York            tba
> October 31     Philadelphia        Trocadero (my fave place)
> November 2     Boston              Paradise and M80
> November 3     Montreal            Greenland (although I've also heard .
>                                    that it may be at Metropolis)
> November 4     Toronto             Warehouse @ RPM
> November 5     Detroit             St. Andrews or Industry
> November 6     Chicago             tba
> November 9     Denver              Ogden Theatre
> November 11    tba
> November 12    tba
> November 13    Los Angeles         Circa
> November 14    San Francisco       Galleria
> 
> That's it. More when I know more.
> 
> Lane
> 
> --
> Lane Dunlop                             "if you don't have anything nice
> Lane_Dunlop@mindlink.bc.ca                    to say...then post it."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --2147483647-1259-750109367:#29539--
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 14:04:12 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 13:55:57 PDT
Subject: Re: YSH
Status: 

>   Nice cafe, clean, no hassles, good people running it / working there.

    All of that, but how did they get YSH to *fit* into that tiny place?
    Do they not have as many people coming as they used to?

>   Rebecca with one of the most bizarre sets I've ever heard

    Foo!  If I'd known she was spinning I'd have come anyway.
    The phone message said she was going on next week.

    Spent the evening at home with new CDs and mixer & stuff
    which was kinda fun anyway...

                                    &andy
    


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 14:08:05 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 14:07:53 PDT
Subject: YSH
Status: 


yes, it was a small crowd, probably around 40 people.  really cozy.
it was kind of cool to have random passers-by dropping in and checking
out the scene...

my guess is that many people didn't come because it was at Cleo's,
it's been there a few times (and big the second time it was there,
from 2nd hand reports) and noise is always an issue with the
neighbors, plus it has to end by 2:30ish.

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 15:24:12 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 15:24:25 PDT
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 

My mailer says that Andy Nourse said:
> 
>     we could try Tu Long on 6th nr Market.
that's Tu Lan

and the food is faulous.
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE -------- brycer@netcom.com--------
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party 10/16 -----
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 15:46:54 1993
From: shrink@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Fabien Thad Santos)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 15:46:04 -0700
Subject: Re: East Bay Clubs
Status: 

ya...I was just curious too.  I know of some, but I was just wondering if there
were some really cool ones. 

Thanks,
Shrink

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 16:18:47 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Ben Wing)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 16:18:36 -0700
Subject: Re: October - C, it is ugly 8)
Status: 

In article <9310081401.AA04851@netcom.netcom.com> you write:
|The
|big off-your-face-nights will be the weekend of Haloween.  This madness
|will start on a Fri. (the 29th).  Wicked I thought was gonna be on the 23rd
|but it seems that there will be something on the 29th as well.

indeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed ...  woof woof ... :)

|And then on the 31st more banality with the boat
|party (I've already reserved my tix, if U wanna go you'd watch closely when
|they go on sale).

I say, try to catch the Halloween Party on Castro St. (8pm - 12am, Oct 31)
It's pretty wild and some people have spent insane amounts of effort on
their costumes.  And best of all, it's free! :)

ben

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 16:38:57 1993
From: Sean Finn <finns@smtplink.NGC.COM>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 93 16:38:59 PST
Subject: Re[2]: new muzik for caliban!
Status: 

Sounds interesting ... what's the label, & maybe a good place to find this one? 

I just got some new CDs too.  Twitch, volumes 4-8.  Great stuff Mike and Jon.
Do you select songs you want to remix or do people/labels request it or both.
If you select it, our tastes coincide very well.  There are several tracks
that I had been trying to I.D. for a while now and I was very happy to hear
them when I was listening to the discs for the first time, I know what they
are now.  I feel I realy got a great deal too.  5 disks for $40 - includes
tax.  Wow!  Can't beat that with a stick.  Thanks guys, and keep up the good
work.

-Mark


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 16:48:20 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 15:45:59 PDT
Subject: Shows
Status: 

I heard Dead Can Dance was playing soon (this weekend?).  Anyone know
the scoop?

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 17:06:53 1993
From: John Turpin <turpin@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 17:06:46 -0700
Subject: Re:  Shows
Status: 

Yeah, I heard this too. I'm not sure where though - Gotta go
A friend of mine saw them at the Palace Of Fine Arts in SF
several years ago.

The Orb, Orbital-Moby-Aphex Twin, Dead Can Dance, man I sure would
like to add the Art of Noise to this list - then my life would be
complete. Well maybe there is more to life than music, but it is
a great inspiration!

johnny t

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
\\                                                                          \\
//       "Thats why we have to have computers because -                     //
\\          man - nobody is perfect"                                        \\
//                                                                          //
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 17:08:40 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@squick.eit.COM>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1993 17:08:15 -0700
Subject: FYI -- MTV on the net
Status: 


Here's the readme from ftp.mtv.com:

- ----====----====----====----====----====----====----====----

Welcome to MTV.COM!!!

Well, it's been an interesting startup, I've been learning alot about UNIX
and the Net as I go along, and so far it's been fun.

Here's a brief rundown on this site:

First and foremost I have to make it very clear that mtv.com is NOT
sponsored by MTV Networks. Although they are aware of my cyberspace
dwellings they aren't yet ready to commit to a project like this, but I
have their bessing in spreading the gospel ofcourse ;-)

So this ofcourse means that I am paying for my T1 connection myself, which
is maintained by the fine folks at Digital Express.

Although the startup has been rather slow, look for this site to be really
hoppin' within the next couple of weeks. My personal assistant Ken Clar
(ken@mtv.com) will be posting a weekly newsletter, we'll be putting
bloopers and outtakes up in quicktime format, look for digital presskits
to appear, and yes, even mailboxes for Beavis and Bitthead, huh, huh,heh.heh.

I intend to post programming grids for MTV along with important
development in the music bizz.

Please also not the "Cyber-Sleaze" wich is available through gopher, ftp
or the extended versions which are on the listprocessor, the mailing list
is cyber-sleaze@mtv.com and you should place the following in the message :

subscribe CYBER-SLEAZE your name

This extended reports are shareware, and donations are appreciated.

This is just the start of mtv.com and I hope that you will enjoy your stay
here. Suggestions and comments are always welcome!

All for now.

Adam Curry
- ----====----====----====----====----====----====----====----

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=		       Niels Mayer -- mayer@eit.com                         =
=	     MultiMedia Engineering Collaborative Environment               =
= Enterprise Integration Technologies, 459 Hamilton Ave, Palo Alto CA 94301 =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 17:33:03 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 17:28:01 PDT
Subject: Re:  Re[2]: new muzik for caliban!
Status: 


>>I just got some new CDs too.  Twitch, volumes 4-8.  Great stuff Mike and Jon.
>Sounds interesting ... what's the label, & maybe a good place to find this one?

The label is Twitch.  The CDs are title "Twitch CD #1" thru "Twitch CD #8".
CDs 1-3 are out-of-print.  And CDs 4 and 5 are extremely endangered species.
Each CD is a compilation of techno/rave remixes and has a running time of
at  least 73 minutes.  The 5-CD set of CDs 4-8 are on sale for $40, which
includes shipping and tax.  For track lists, finger twitch@twitch.stanford.edu,
or email twitch@twitch.stanford.edu.

To order, send a check for $40, made payable to Twitch, to:
Twitch, 584 Castro Street, Suite 600, SF, CA  94114.

And do it *today*.  Once we're sold out, these CDs will never be re-issued.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 17:33:04 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 17:32:12 -0700
Subject: Re: October - C, it is ugly 8)
Status: 

>| Just as I expected, October will prove to be a better month for
>| parties, as far as this year is concerned.  There are two new clubs
>| opening up.
>| 
>| (Wednesdays starting Oct. 13th) Motion - 400 S. 1st Street in San Jose
>| $3 before 11:30, $5 thereafter.
>
>Not to pick nits, but this isn't a new club, it's a new event.  400 S.
>1st St is F/X.


Hmm...interesting.  It all depends on what you call a club.  Is the club
the venue?  Or is the prodcuer of an event the prime determinant of a club?

Yeah, we all know it's F/X, but it's being done a bit different with a
different vibe, and feel.  So with that in mind, it qualifies as a new
club, since venue doesn't mean anything.  It's what you do with it that
counts!  Hell, following your line of logic, HOME was not HOME, but
Ceasar's Palace.  And I know the majority of people here would disagree. 
HOME was a new club. 

Motion is a new club.


Late,
John

================================================================
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed
or numbered!..." - No. 6
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 17:43:49 1993
From: phred@well.sf.ca.us (Fred Heutte)
Date: 	Fri, 8 Oct 1993 17:43:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Resources for Malachy-net-empowerment and Handicapped computerists in
Status: 

The lead story in today's Wall Street Journal is very a propos.
It's entitled, "Aided by Computers, Many of the Disabled Form Own
Businesses," and is quite a good survey of some of the technologies
and approaches being used now.

I won't quote it at length, but the article does mention the Stanford
University Center for the Study of Language and Information, whose
Archimedes Project is using a voice-driven infrared unit to control
computers, faxes and phones.  Considering that
Stanford is also home to sfraves, I wonder if it would be possible
to hook Malachy and the CSLI folks up and see what develops :)

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 17:50:47 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 17:49:50 -0700
Subject: Fronting - hard!!!!
Status: 

>| Lineup:
>| Oct 13 - DJ's Lauren, Rick Preston, & Markie Mark
>| (Loren is the latest in a line of great new up-n-coming DJ's. Check him out!)
>
>| Oct 20 - DJ's Lauren, Harry Who, & Tony
>
>Again, not to pick nits, but I believe this is Lorenzo, a friend of
>mine who works at Tower Records Mtn View, is a DJ, and is the one who
>told me about Motion earlier in the week.
>


Let's see...is the point here to point out that he knows Lauren, or is it
to expose his "real" name?  In any case, I try to respect what a DJ likes
to be called publicly, or what his "show" name is.  We all know Jon D is
Jon Drukman.  But if he wants to be called DJ Jon D, I respect that.  And
when I refer him to others who may want to hire him, or other DJ's who may
spin with him, I refer to him as Jon D.  I dunno, I like to respect the
DJ's when it comes to certain things.  Call me crazy.  

Also, telling the location of peoples work is BS.  I would never do that to
anyone!  If L wants people to know such things, I am sure he would find a
way to tell them himself.  There was no need in posting his whereabouts,
since that is nobody's biz.

My final point:  Instead of not picking nits, maybe you should've given
some details about Lauren's club and support my man's efforts! :)

His party sounds damn good to me!

Peace,
John

================================================================
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed
or numbered!..." - No. 6
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 18:36:47 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@squick.eit.COM>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1993 18:36:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Resources for Malachy-net-empowerment and Handicapped computerists$
Status: 

From phred@well.sf.ca.us:
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???
Status: 

FYI -- some info on the Archimedes project. 

The people involved are all top-notch researchers in psycholinguistics
(Herb Clark), Psychology (Barbara Tversky) Logic/Linguistics/Philosophy
(John Perry, John Etchemendy, Tom Wasow, David Israel), Neural Nets (David
Rumelhart).  However, I have a feeling that as with most things academic
(and especially all things CSLI) they have a very non-practical bent to
things, so they probably won't be interested in specifiically helping
Malachy. I could be wrong of course, since I didn't attend the seminar
mentioned below, and I don't know how "real" the technology they're
developing is.

--------------------

                           CSLI SEMINAR 
                on Thursday, 7 October and 14 October
                        2:15 p.m., Cordura 100
            Theoretical Aspects of the Archimedes Project
                John Perry, Betsy Macken, Herb Clark,
           John Etchemendy, David Israel, David Rumelhart,
                     Barbara Tversky, Tom Wasow
                         Stanford University

The Archimedes Project is focusing on improving access to information for
individuals with disabilities, by utilizing some of the foundational and
applied work that is ongoing at CSLI, and by incorporating state-of-the-art
engineering to develop strategies for providing practical access.  This
project involves researchers and users from many different backgrounds.  The
goal of the Archimedes Project is to improve access to information for
individuals with disabilities by influencing the early design stages of
tomorrow's technology.  We will be discussing theoretical aspects of this
enterprise as it bears on ongoing research at CSLI.

--------------------

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=		       Niels Mayer -- mayer@eit.com                         =
=	     MultiMedia Engineering Collaborative Environment               =
= Enterprise Integration Technologies, 459 Hamilton Ave, Palo Alto CA 94301 =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 19:44:12 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 17:11:02 PDT
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new muzik for caliban!
Status: 

It's not exactly a label, it's a remix service run by John D. and Mike W. 
from this list so every disk is a (great) compilation.  As for getting them,
maybe you should run another post, Mike, this is the fourth message I've
gotten asking what's Twitch and where do you get these.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct  8 23:47:33 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 23:47:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SRL and other project
Status: 

7CyG{h

 Its true that mark pauline does not rave...but, as you all may
know, mark amebaOn{ started his S.F. existance working with mark
pauline of SRL and our fixtures were made at SRL. The hello Kitty
raver and the doom lovers of abrasiveness definately are at odds with
each other. I have been fascinated by the hybrids of different sorts
aW@&`&cw.rBPoGgPin our rave community~

there isa SRL show planned for november. a building will be destroyed.

also some lady with money is throwing a rave-like event at the concourse
on the 16th of october. Carlos has been hired. If anyone has the desire to
make money doing lasers,visuals or some ravesque type hype i can hook you
up. act fast unless you are working on a really cool event that will
lose money because you have integrity.

salutations
allen @ ameba

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  9 08:28:54 1993
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 9 Oct 1993 08:27:44 -0700
Subject: Re:  SRL and other project
Status: 

> act fast ..... allen @ ameba

Me I don't think having integrity and losing money are synonymuos.

Gil

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  9 10:12:06 1993
From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1993 10:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ORB Screen Saver for After-Dark
Status: 


   For everyone who owns a Mac, After Dark, and a love for ORB, remember
that there's a terific ORB screensaver stashed at the following location:

   techno.stanford.edu, under pub/raves/visuals/graphics/
   Color_Orb_PICS.sea.hqx.
   
  



From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  9 10:41:46 1993
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 9 Oct 1993 10:41:16 -0700
Subject: Re:  SRL and other project
Status: 

> i can hook you up. ... allen @ ameba

Do like the the idea of turning others on the list to possible work.
 Gil

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  9 15:27:17 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1993 15:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 


hmmmm i dont' know i won't be able to make it to a dinner because i will
be "busy" waiting in line...ahhh the wonders of a general admission
concert...partyon...susie (:

On Fri, 8 Oct 1993, Sameer Parekh wrote:

> 	I don't know if this may be too early to start planning, but:
> 
> 	How's 'bout a pre-Orb SFR dinner next Friday? Hopefully
> someplace where it doesn't end up costing me $14!! The post-Connection
> Earth dinner was *loads* of fun, even though it was expensive.
> 
> -- 
> Sameer
> sameer@netcom.com




From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  9 19:07:08 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1993 19:00:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Shows
Status: 


> I heard Dead Can Dance was playing soon (this weekend?).  Anyone know
> the scoop?
> 
> -Mark

Not this weekend, but definitely sometime within the next two weeks (I
forget the exact date).  It will take place at Zellerbach Auditorium on
the UC Berkeley campus.  I saw them a couple of years ago and they were
AMAZING, to say the very least.  I wonder if they'll do "Papua New Guinea"?
Heh :)

//////////{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[[[<<<<<<<232>>>>>>>]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct  9 21:02:04 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1993 20:54:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Orb screensaver
Status: 

Well, I just spent about 45 minutes downloading the damn thing, 720k
worth.  Now what?  I can't seem to get it running in After Dark.  How does
it work?

///////////{{{{{{{{{{[[[[[[[<<<<<232>>>>>]]]]]]]]}}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 00:31:38 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 00:31:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Moby/Orbital/Aphex dates
Status: 

	well i though i waould be the first to be able to 
	blab the galleria/sf date for orbital/mobey/aphex...
	i work there and we have been discussing it for a
	while but i dinna wanna post until it was 100%
	confirmed... which it still isn't.  *cross your
	fingers*!!

	 i went to my first rave at the galleria... a year
	before i lived in sf and i never imagined i would 
	work there... it was cyber spyder... with the giant
	spider on the truss and the naked people dancing in
	ropelights....

calirock


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 00:43:35 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 00:43:29 -0700
Subject: dead can dance
Status: 


	tickets go on sale at bass tomorrow morning, that's sunday.
	they usually sell out in an hour or so, especially shows
	at a venue as small as zellbach (btw, saw cocteau twind
	there, *great* show, great hall.)  anyway, the show itself
	sunday november seventh, a week before orbital/aphex/moby.
	see you there!


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 05:14:23 1993
From: Harry Duran <hduran@UMDNJ.EDU>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 08:11:51 -0500 (EDT)
Subject: RE:ORB screen saver
Status: 

I had the same experience, after downloading, dehqxing and opening the SEA
I couldn't get the ORB screen saver to run on AFTER DARK (tm).

Any input would be appreciated.

WAZZUPDOQ?


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 13:26:45 1993
From: (Chris.Hilker) <cspot@cats.ucsc.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 13:26:40 +45722824
Subject: Re: ORB screen saver 
Status: 

>I had the same experience, after downloading, dehqxing and opening the SEA
>I couldn't get the ORB screen saver to run on AFTER DARK (tm).

>Any input would be appreciated.

You need to use the "PICS Player" module in After Dark. There's a button
labeled "Choose File..." that you press that gives you a file-selection
dialog box; select the file you downloaded. I like the float speed
"Slower" and I choose the "Invert" option, but I'm using black-and-white
mac.

C.

--
(chris.hilker) cspot@cats.ucsc.edu

"If spiders were in control, we wouldn't need nuclear weapons."

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 14:55:08 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 14:55:34 PDT
Subject: Re: SRL and other project
Status: 

Mark Metz / Future Forum (actually Allen) sez:
> pauline of SRL and our fixtures were made at SRL. The hello Kitty
> raver and the doom lovers of abrasiveness definately are at odds with

The hello kitty raver!  Well I suppose the connection had to be made
sometime.  At least there aren't Barney theme raves yet. :-)

-Howard "Sanrio good, Barney BAAAD!!!!" Berkey


-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
			yog b'harne neblod zin
...........................................................................

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 15:38:20 1993
From: Adam   Gonnelli <76450.463@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 10 Oct 93 18:34:25 EDT
Subject: NY RAVES
Status: 

Can anyone reccomend any BBS's that would list raves in NY area?  
Thanks.



From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 17:58:20 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 17:58:05 -0700
Subject: RE:ORB screen saver
Status: 

It's a SEA, self-extracting-archives, which means you click on it and it
uncompresses, and then you run it using the PICS player module in After
Dark.  Make sure and tell your Mac that it is indeed a Mac file when you
download it, or else it won't recognize it and refuse to decompress itself
(I lurve macs!)

        Brian

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 18:12:41 1993
From: (Chris.Hilker) <cspot@cats.ucsc.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 18:12:36 +45722824
Subject: Re: ORB screen saver 
Status: 

bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf) writes:
>It's a SEA, self-extracting-archives, which means you click on it and it
>uncompresses, and then you run it using the PICS player module in After
>Dark.  Make sure and tell your Mac that it is indeed a Mac file when you
>download it, or else it won't recognize it and refuse to decompress itself
>(I lurve macs!)

The last part isn't accurate. In addition to being in the SEA format, it's
also been run through binhqx, a utility created for the express purpose of
overcoming the problem of transferring Mac files. Use text transfer, then
run it through binhqx and expand it. I recommend the StuffIt Expander
utility, which is available via FTP from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, among
other places.

C.

--
(chris.hilker) cspot@cats.ucsc.edu

"If spiders were in control, we wouldn't need nuclear weapons."

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 18:39:38 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 18:39:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 


On Oct 9,  3:24pm, you proclaimed:
} 
} hmmmm i dont' know i won't be able to make it to a dinner because i will
} be "busy" waiting in line...ahhh the wonders of a general admission
} concert...partyon...susie (:

Actually I don't think the Orb will merit the same sort of waiting-in-
line-be-as-close-as-you-can-be-to-them sort of treatment as most other
bands do.  As long as we get in, I don't think it'll matter WHERE in the
place we are as long as the music is clear.  If it's like last year,
they will in fact have a fairly strong anti-stage-presence; they had 
slide projectors beaming at eye level from the stage, blinding anyone
who tried to get close, and all their instruments were covered with white
sheets anyways.

And if there is a MOSH PIT, I'm leaving :)

} On Fri, 8 Oct 1993, Sameer Parekh wrote:
} 
} > 	I don't know if this may be too early to start planning, but:
} > 
} > 	How's 'bout a pre-Orb SFR dinner next Friday? Hopefully
} > someplace where it doesn't end up costing me $14!! The post-Connection
} > Earth dinner was *loads* of fun, even though it was expensive.

Yeah, lets!  My vote again is La Azteca, just for convenience's sake, but
if someone knows a similar place closer by (no, not Carl's Jr.) then let's
go for it!

	Brian


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 18:59:58 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 19:00:13 PDT
Subject: RE:ORB screen saver
Status: 

Brian Behlendorf sez:
> 
> Dark.  Make sure and tell your Mac that it is indeed a Mac file when you
> download it, or else it won't recognize it and refuse to decompress itself
> (I lurve macs!)

Well, not exactly.  It's not really a problem.

Actually I'll bet the biggest problem is people not realizing it's
just a PICS player module.  Downloading is almost as straightforward
as possible.

1.  FTP it.
2.  gunzip it (or do this during ftp)
3.  mcvert it (if you don't have mcvert, and are ftp'ing from a unix
    box, get it.  it's great.  Netcom has it.)
    Note that this could be a problem otherwise.  The file is binhexed
    (apple's own perverted uuencode which converts macbinary files into
    6-bit text) so either de-hqx it on the unix box with mcvert or
    locally with binhex 4.0, stuffit, etc...
4.  Download it.  I use Zmodem with white knight (which automagically
    detects most file transfer protocols, pretty nice)
5.  Double click on its icon (or de-hqx it if ya don't have mcvert)
6.  Move it to your System Folder:Control Panels:After Dark Files folder
7.  Open the After Dark control panel and select PICS player.  You
    should be able to figure it out from there.

Have fun!

-H-



-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
  Plato, they say, could put it away... Half a pint of whiskey every day!
...........................................................................

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 21:06:53 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 21:07:11 -0700
Subject: Re: ORB screen saver
Status: 

>bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf) writes:
>>It's a SEA, self-extracting-archives, which means you click on it and it
>>uncompresses, and then you run it using the PICS player module in After
>>Dark.  Make sure and tell your Mac that it is indeed a Mac file when you
>>download it, or else it won't recognize it and refuse to decompress itself
>>(I lurve macs!)
>
>The last part isn't accurate. In addition to being in the SEA format, it's
>also been run through binhqx, a utility created for the express purpose of
>overcoming the problem of transferring Mac files. Use text transfer, then
>run it through binhqx and expand it. I recommend the StuffIt Expander
>utility, which is available via FTP from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, among
>other places.
>
>C.
>
>--
>(chris.hilker) cspot@cats.ucsc.edu
>
>"If spiders were in control, we wouldn't need nuclear weapons."

Stuffit Expander does not have binhex decoding!  So forget about using it
to deocode anything other than stuffit files (Ihave been known to write a
few decoders every now and then ;).
Forget about Stuffit anything...use Compactor Pro....it's shareware and
available everywhere.  It also has binhex decoding built in.  In order to
use stuffit's decoder you have to have certain versions of the software. 
Many of their decoders are not available with the shareware version of
their program.
(I have nothing against stuffit, I do have something I like about
Compactor; it's shareware, and a very good straightforward product! 
Stuffit, gets a bit cluttered at times.  I use both!)

As for any other problem, use PICS Player After Dark module to view your
pics!  It should work fine!

I truly LOVE the MAC.  A fine piece of hardware/software.  Second ONLY to
the SGI in terms of price/performance/features :)


Good Luck,
John


================================================================
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed
or numbered!..." - No. 6
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 22:57:24 1993
From: saeedi@shell.portal.com (Steven J Saeedi)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 23:01:26 PDT
Subject: Re: ORB screen saver
Status: 

> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 21:07:11 -0700
> From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
> 
> >bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf) writes:
> >>It's a SEA, self-extracting-archives, which means you click on it and it
> >>uncompresses, and then you run it using the PICS player module in After
> >>Dark.  Make sure and tell your Mac that it is indeed a Mac file when you
> >>download it, or else it won't recognize it and refuse to decompress itself
> >>(I lurve macs!)
> >
> >The last part isn't accurate. In addition to being in the SEA format, it's
> >also been run through binhqx, a utility created for the express purpose of
> >overcoming the problem of transferring Mac files. Use text transfer, then
> >run it through binhqx and expand it. I recommend the StuffIt Expander
> >utility, which is available via FTP from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, among
> >other places.
> >
> >C.
> >
> >--
> >(chris.hilker) cspot@cats.ucsc.edu
> >
> >"If spiders were in control, we wouldn't need nuclear weapons."
> 
> Stuffit Expander does not have binhex decoding!  So forget about using it
> to deocode anything other than stuffit files (Ihave been known to write a
> few decoders every now and then ;).

Actually, Stuffit Expander does, and has for a while, decode binhex files.
In addition to binhex, it will expand Stuffit, Compact Pro, and AppleLink
compressed files.  I know 'cause I use it all the time.  Latest version
is 3.0.7 and widely available from your favourite sources.

Stuffit Expander will automatically decode binhex and uncompress files
in one drag and drop action, so it's the easiest to use.  It can also 
be configured to check a certain folder everynow and then and decompress
files as they show up.

- Steve
> Forget about Stuffit anything...use Compactor Pro....it's shareware and
> available everywhere.  It also has binhex decoding built in.  In order to
> use stuffit's decoder you have to have certain versions of the software. 
> Many of their decoders are not available with the shareware version of
> their program.
> (I have nothing against stuffit, I do have something I like about
> Compactor; it's shareware, and a very good straightforward product! 
> Stuffit, gets a bit cluttered at times.  I use both!)
> 
> As for any other problem, use PICS Player After Dark module to view your
> pics!  It should work fine!
> 
> I truly LOVE the MAC.  A fine piece of hardware/software.  Second ONLY to
> the SGI in terms of price/performance/features :)
> 
> 
> Good Luck,
> John
> 
> 
> ================================================================
> "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed
> or numbered!..." - No. 6
>                  from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
> =================================================================
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 10 23:12:32 1993
From: "Peter S. Morris" <ez003475@rocky.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 22:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: ORB screen saver
Status: 



On Sun, 10 Oct 1993, John S. Lee wrote:

> >bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf) writes: > >>It's a SEA,
> 
Actually the best method I have found is that your local 
Mac decompression utility called "unRAVEl" will pull it out of 
compression, then you use your discosythesized double-clicking mouse
to get the thing moving in state of trance.
Then when its Really After-Dark things start happening!!!
Unfortunately you need a Phunking Thumping Multitasking Digital
Disco Dancing Graphical Gidget (PTMDDDGG) to really get
the hypnotic orb groove..... ;)

Peter
sorry, couldn't resist,,., although I did keep it short!!



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 03:22:06 1993
From: Harry Duran <hduran@UMDNJ.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 06:19:33 -0500 (EDT)
Subject: RE: ORB-AfterDark(tm) hee
Status: 

Thanks for everyones helpful comments

	Heres what I did
	zmodem download (de-gzipped on the fly)
	unbinhexed with binhex 4,0
	double click SEA to self extract
	placed in AfterDark (tm)  files folder
	loaded PICS Player
	selected ORB...screensaver
	the rest you know and voila it worked :).

I got to the place in AD files folder part it was the PICs player portion I didnt quite get at first and thanks again.

	WAZZUP!!!!



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 09:18:21 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:10:02 PDT
Subject: Dead Can Dance (if they can get a ticket)
Status: 

The whole Dead-Can-Dance thread, and all of the tickets, came and
went by Sunday evening when I logged in.  BASS was saying at the
time that another show was be added, going on sale today.  I called
today, and they said the notice of another show had been removed.

Does anybody have an extra ticket for the show?

Does anybody really know if another show is being added?

        Thank you
                        &andy


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 10:03:43 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 10:04:17 -0700
Subject: ComeUnity in early Nov !
Status: 

  There's probably going to be a real ComeUnity in early Nov!
Dont let anyone ever say the ravescene is dead.
-Chris.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 10:08:28 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 10:06:37 PDT
Subject: Re[2]: new muzik for caliban!
Status: 

[twitch]
>It's not exactly a label, it's a remix service run by John D. and Mike W. 

er, i don't run it.  in fact, i'm not even a regular contributor.
more like occasional meddler.

mike w. *is* one of the people in charge though.

/j/

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 10:14:38 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 

Previously, Brian Behlendorf said:
> 
> Yeah, lets!  My vote again is La Azteca, just for convenience's sake, but
> if someone knows a similar place closer by (no, not Carl's Jr.) then let's
> go for it!
 The only problem with La Azteca is that on 14th Street they are doing 
major construction. There is no place to park. I was wondering how many 
of you were driving to the Orb. Maybe we should all carpool.


cindy
-- 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 10:27:08 1993
From: DCSELLERS@ualr.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 12:26:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: ???
Status: 

sfraves@soda.Berkeley.edu
Please send info. Send to DCSELLERS@UALR.edu

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 10:34:04 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 18:35:03 BST
Subject: ???
Status: 


  DCSELLERS> Please send info. Send to DCSELLERS@UALR.edu

I HEARD ABOUT THIS RAVE INFO SERVICE STOP PLEASE SEND INFO STOP WHY
DOES THIS READ LIKE A CABLE STOP

	Cosmic Roy

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 10:48:29 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 10:39:37 PDT
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 


>   } hmmmm i dont' know i won't be able to make it to a dinner because i will
>   } be "busy" waiting in line...ahhh the wonders of a general admission
>   } concert...partyon...susie (:
>   
>   Actually I don't think the Orb will merit the same sort of waiting-in-
>   line-be-as-close-as-you-can-be-to-them sort of treatment as most other
>   bands do.  As long as we get in, I don't think it'll matter WHERE in the
>   place we are as long as the music is clear.  If it's like last year,
>   they will in fact have a fairly strong anti-stage-presence; they had 
>   slide projectors beaming at eye level from the stage, blinding anyone
>   who tried to get close, and all their instruments were covered with white
>   sheets anyways.

    Just so long as we can get onto the floor.

    The balcony is full of these useless things called seats that
    kindof get in the way of dancing.

    Probably not a problem, ravers don't seem to be as territorial as
    most bay-area concertgoers.

    Does anyone know how many tickets they are selling to it?
    When do the doors open?


>   And if there is a MOSH PIT, I'm leaving :)

    Aw, cmon.  mosh pits are fun :^) :^)

>   Yeah, lets!  My vote again is La Azteca, just for convenience's sake, but
>   if someone knows a similar place closer by (no, not Carl's Jr.) then let's
>   go for it!

    Tu Lan would be far more convenient (not even a block away), just
    as cheap, and very good food.


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 12:18:07 1993
From: Ravi Vinodrai Gadhia <rg@CS.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 12:18:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SundayAmbient
Status: 

Hi All!

Spent the weekend recovering from last weekend and 
charging up for next weekend (!)

Sundays, there's an Ambient thing in the basement of 
Spike's (8th & Minna).   Checked it out last night
&& it was mellow/soothing/peaceful.....  drifting
in-and-out of sleep caressed by ambient waves.....
..yum-yum-yum...


Ravi

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 12:19:55 1993
From: Joanna [Jo] <jng@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Dead Can Dance (if they can get a ticket)
Status: 

> 
> The whole Dead-Can-Dance thread, and all of the tickets, came and
> went by Sunday evening when I logged in.  BASS was saying at the
> time that another show was be added, going on sale today.  I called
> today, and they said the notice of another show had been removed.
> 
> Does anybody have an extra ticket for the show?

ditto! i'm trying to get a hold of 2 tix to the show....if anyone has extras/
knows someone who does, please reply to jng@soda.berkeley.edu
 
> Does anybody really know if another show is being added?

I just went to Zellerbach this morning, and they said that the show is 
absolutely sold out, and there is definitely not going to be a second one.
(that's the most current info...may change in the coming weeks)

grazie,
jo

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 13:52:18 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 13:52:50 -0700
Subject: Mosh pit?
Status: 

>>   And if there is a MOSH PIT, I'm leaving :)

>    Aw, cmon.  mosh pits are fun :^) :^)

Whats a mosh pit,  and is there usually dancing at these "Orb"
thangies??


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 14:17:05 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 14:19:21 -0800
Subject: Re: Mosh pit?
Status: 

At  1:52 PM 10/11/93 -0700, John Draper wrote:
>>>   And if there is a MOSH PIT, I'm leaving :)
>
>>    Aw, cmon.  mosh pits are fun :^) :^)
>
>Whats a mosh pit,  and is there usually dancing at these "Orb"
>thangies??

Whoaboy- punk/hardcore has been dead for a LONG time here, hasn't it? :)

It is an area usually directly in front of the stage, with a crowd of
people kind of slam-dancing in a circle. Ususally not found anywhere but
hardcore/heavymetal shows and,occasionally, a highschool pep-rally.
(Sometimes, I think those are the same thing, though)


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 14:30:03 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 15:30:15 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Mosh pit?
Status: 

> Whats a mosh pit,

Testosterone laced movements of stress relief under close quartered
conditions.  Usually better suited for fast, grindy, banging music, or all of
the above.  Not conditions The Orb meets.

> and is there usually dancing at these "Orb" thangies??

More than you can believe.  Do not miss at all costs.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 15:18:09 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 15:15:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 



On Mon, 11 Oct 1993, Sea Of Sin wrote:

> Previously, Brian Behlendorf said:
> > 
> > Yeah, lets!  My vote again is La Azteca, just for convenience's sake, but
> > if someone knows a similar place closer by (no, not Carl's Jr.) then let's
> > go for it!
>  The only problem with La Azteca is that on 14th Street they are doing 
> major construction. There is no place to park. I was wondering how many 
> of you were driving to the Orb. Maybe we should all carpool.
> 
> 
> cindy
> -- 
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>    D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
> >>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
> >>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<
> 




From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 15:21:29 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 15:14:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Mosh pit?
Status: 

At  3:30 PM 10/11/93 -0600, Pete Ashdown wrote:
>> Whats a mosh pit,
>
>Testosterone laced movements of stress relief under close quartered
>conditions.  Usually better suited for fast, grindy, banging music, or all of
>the above.  Not conditions The Orb meets.

I dunno- When I was being a punk, nearly all of my friends were women who
would bash themselves senseless right alongside of all the boys, and
out-bashing most of us wimps.
Though the stress-relief part is very valid. 


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 15:37:10 1993
From: Mark Baldwin <Mark_Baldwin@qmgate.Radius.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 15:39:25 +0000
Subject: None
Status: 

>
>>If that is truly the state of the industrial art, then I say it's time to 
>>move on.
>
>Well, I'd say the post-industrial genre is moving on, particularly 
>ambient industrial.  While it doesn't get nearly the amount of attention 
>that ambient techno is getting, its a source of the some of the most 
>original music in recent years.  I think that Coil's most recent releases  
>(Stolen & Contaminated Songs and the How To Destroy Angels remixes) 
>particularly attest to the health of post-industrial music.

i have to agree.  in fact, i agree so much i'm going to post.  to the original

sender who wanted to hear some good ambient techno, i would say all of the
above (ie. orb, aphex twin, etc..), sure, but go out and buy How To Destroy
Angels if you want to here some INCREDIBLE ambient music.  

...better than any "ambient techno, not associated with the industrial scene,

as coil is".  sorry for that vague label.

-mARK. (Now Available Without A Prescription)



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 16:16:53 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 16:14:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Mosh pit?
Status: 



On Mon, 11 Oct 1993 jamiel@sybase.com wrote:

> At  3:30 PM 10/11/93 -0600, Pete Ashdown wrote:
> >> Whats a mosh pit,
> >
> >Testosterone laced movements of stress relief under close quartered
> >conditions.  Usually better suited for fast, grindy, banging music, or all of
> >the above.  Not conditions The Orb meets.
> 
> Though the stress-relief part is very valid. 
> 

wouldn't a slither pile be more fun?? and more fitting??? partyon...susie (:

H
> 
> jamie
> 
> jamiel@sybase.com
> "Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank
> 
> 




From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 16:58:47 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 16:35:35 PDT
Subject: Re: Mosh pit?
Status: 


> Whoaboy- punk/hardcore has been dead for a LONG time here, hasn't it? :)

Punk's been dead from the start.  That's why punkers always smell bad.

>^)

> It is an area usually directly in front of the stage, with a crowd of
> people kind of slam-dancing in a circle. Ususally not found anywhere but
> hardcore/heavymetal shows and,occasionally, a highschool pep-rally.
> (Sometimes, I think those are the same thing, though)

There are good pits and bad pits.  Most of the shows I've been to (punk
shows, mostly) have good pits, where people pick you up immediately if 
you fall down and aren't out to hurt you.  I've been moshing for over
five years of shows and have never had worse than a bruise or two.  Of
course, you've got to be a little bit careful to protect yourself: boots
and long pants are good, dangly earrings are right out.

It's a great way to get out your aggressions.  I'm not pure enough to 
not have any.

// g

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 17:02:08 1993
From: The Evil Microwizard <uwiz@acca.nmsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 18:00:41 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: help... ORB?
Status: 

can anyone down there tell me how to find out if there are
still tix left for the Oct 15 Orb show?  and how i might
order one via credit card, if possible?

i'm up here in seattle and i think i might be able to make
it down there and do both the Orb and Liquid Air... and i realllllly
really wanna hear laura and tamara spin!

please email back to this account!  thanks.

-gts/uwiz (Greg Samson, uwiz@acca.nmsu.edu, once known as Velocity-9)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 17:43:53 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Ben Wing)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 17:43:41 -0700
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 

In article <9310111739.AA16464@ wco.ftp.com> you write:
|
|    Tu Lan would be far more convenient (not even a block away), just
|    as cheap, and very good food.
|

Heartily agreed!  This place is right across the street and it's a
perfect dive ...  great food, really cheap, horrible decor. :)

ben

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 19:16:26 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 19:16:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SRL and Rio Rave
Status: 

Rio  Rave is that production at the concourse which i mentioned a day
or so ago that had money for visual type stuff. DRC , Carlos , Pete 
Avila  are spinning  but it looks pretty off - 9-2:00 am ,1 800 RU4 LOVE
At this Point they want a Laser for under $1000.... anyone?

rent a laser?

SRL posted a flyer - SURVIVAL RESEARCH LABORATORIES requests your
cheerful aquiescence to assist in the preparations for our next
machine performance, which will be staged in the bay area this fall

volunteers needed for: machine operation, set construction, welding,
machinery moving, electronics, wiring, high energy physics, computer graphics
aquisition testing, props, assembly

call 541 5687 for message and instructions

salutations
allen@ameba

PS HAWKWIND COMMING

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 19:49:16 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 19:49:41 PDT
Subject: Re: SRL and Rio Rave
Status: 

Mark Metz / Future Forum sez:
> 
> volunteers needed for: machine operation, set construction, welding,
> machinery moving, electronics, wiring, high energy physics, computer graphics
					 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Looks like they'll have the RailGun.  Cool.  I'd thought they'd gotten
in trouble with it last time :-)

-H-



-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
  Plato, they say, could put it away... Half a pint of whiskey every day!
...........................................................................

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 20:12:49 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 20:13:19 -0700
Subject: fwd from nm-list re raves vs. industrial (etc).
Status: 


I hadn't a clue as to what mark baldwin was talking about when he cc'd
us on some ongoing discussion from nm-list, so i've decided to spare
you all from wondering...

------- Forwarded Messages

Date: Sat, 9 Oct 93 00:33:55 -0700
Message-Id: <9310090733.AA28846@netcom3.netcom.com>
From: Mason Jones <mason@netcom.com>
Reply-To: mason@netcom.com
To: nmlist@reef.cis.ufl.edu
Subject: Instantiating negative fleas


>From: ecurrent@sizone.pci.on.ca (Mr. Plow)
>
>s_buebl@main01.rz.uni-ulm.de writes:
>
>> I'm searching for prgressive, innovative, eperimentall techno.
>> can you name me a band? e.g. I discouvered "new mind" - they sound
>> interesting, but not shizoid enough. or "G.G.F.H." - not complex
>> enough (what a pitty).
>
>The Orb.  Orbital.  Aphex Twin.  Polygon Window.  Psychick Warriors of 
>Gaia.  Future Sound of London.  Amorphous Androgynous.  

Innovative? Experimental? Well, I'll just be quiet here I guess.
He did say techno, after all. ;-)

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

[... deleted -- More Mason ramblings about music that sounds like alleycats
     fucking to the backround sounds of a Yugo with spark timing problems...]

<====================================================================>
   Mason Jones               Charnel House Productions
   mason@netcom.com          P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco, CA
                             94117-0277    Phone/fax (415) 664-1829
<====================================================================>

------- Message 2

Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1993 12:15:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Miles Egan <cullen@scripps.edu>
Subject: Re: Instantiating negative fleas
To: NM-LIST <nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 93 00:33:55 -0700
From: Mason Jones <mason@netcom.com>
To: nmlist@reef.cis.ufl.edu
Subject: Instantiating negative fleas

>From: ecurrent@sizone.pci.on.ca (Mr. Plow)
>
>s_buebl@main01.rz.uni-ulm.de writes:
>
>> I'm searching for prgressive, innovative, eperimentall techno.
>> can you name me a band? e.g. I discouvered "new mind" - they sound
>> interesting, but not shizoid enough. or "G.G.F.H." - not complex
>> enough (what a pitty).
>
>The Orb.  Orbital.  Aphex Twin.  Polygon Window.  Psychick Warriors of 
>Gaia.  Future Sound of London.  Amorphous Androgynous.  

>Innovative? Experimental? Well, I'll just be quiet here I guess.
>He did say techno, after all. ;-)

	I know you've a strong anti-techno bias, Mason, but I really have
to disagree.  The new Orbital album, for example is one of the best
thought out, creative, and truly communicative albums I've heard in a long
time.  Anytime I see someone slagging an entire genre of music, I tend to
assume that it's not done with a high degree of objectivity.  Sure there's
a lot of shitty techno coming out these days.  You may even get me to
admit that the ratio of good to bad is considerably lower than most other
genres.  Nevertheless, the groups mentioned above have put out some of the
most fascinating and satisfying electronic music I've ever heard.  
	I think many people tend to dismiss techno music and rave culture
as naive because they embrace positivity.  Industrial music's
obsession with dissonance and negativity is no more perceptive or
forward looking.  I think I've heard fewer more predictable, boring,
and from my point of view, insincere and uninspired comps than the
recent Dry Lungs V.  If that is truly the state of the industrial
art, then I say it's time to move on.  Dogmatic thinking of any kind becomes
tiresome in a big hurry.

------- Message 3
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 03:59:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter Werner <boe666@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Instantiating negative fleas
To: NM-LIST <nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9310091223.A6379-b100000@terrapin>

Miles Egan (cullen@scripps.edu) writes:

>>The new Orbital album, for example is one of the best thought out,
>>creative, and truly communicative albums I've heard in a long time.

Is this the same band that's often unfavorably compared to The Orb?

>      I think many people tend to dismiss techno music and rave culture
>as naive because they embrace positivity.  Industrial music's
>obsession with dissonance and negativity is no more perceptive or
>forward looking.

Well, I find it hard not to find ravers incredibly naive and childish at 
times.  I suppose its just a subculture thing.  Industrial is a post-punk 
thing and rave is a sort of return to hippie values.  And as punks used 
to say, "Never trust a hippie."  (I'm being a bit flippant here, though I  
don't feel like inserting the requisite smily face.)  Seriously though, 
in a society which uses psychotherapy and "self-help" as tools of social 
control and brands any act of rebellion as "negative", of course I'm 
going to be damn suspicious of anybody telling me to be more "positive".  
That doesn't mean I necessarily embrace negativity for its own sake (a 
la Boyd Rice) either.

As for the embrace of dissonance, I think its accounted for some damn 
fine music over the years, not just from the industrial genre, but music 
as far back as Stravinsky (if not further).  I'd say a lot of the better 
techno makes use of dissonance as well.  The creative potential of 
dissonance has hardly been exhausted.

I think the rave scene tends to limit the creative potential of techno.  
For example, Sven Vath's Accident In Paradise is a great piece, but how 
widely embraced has it been by ravers?  Not much; "Can't dance to it, man." 

>I think I've heard fewer more predictable, boring, and from my point of 
>view, insincere and uninspired comps than the recent Dry Lungs V.

Aii! I'm staying well out of the way of this issue.
  
>If that is truly the state of the industrial art, then I say it's time to 
>move on.

Well, I'd say the post-industrial genre is moving on, particularly 
ambient industrial.  While it doesn't get nearly the amount of attention 
that ambient techno is getting, its a source of the some of the most 
original music in recent years.  I think that Coil's most recent releases  
(Stolen & Contaminated Songs and the How To Destroy Angels remixes) 
particularly attest to the health of post-industrial music.

Beast of Eden

------- Message 4

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 14:15:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Miles Egan <cullen@scripps.edu>
Subject: Re: Instantiating negative fleas
To: NM-LIST <nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.85.9310100213.G8707-0100000@stein1.u.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9310111437.B3417-d100000@pokey>

On Sun, 10 Oct 1993, Peter Werner wrote:

> 
> Miles Egan (cullen@scripps.edu) writes:
> 
> >>The new Orbital album, for example is one of the best thought out,
> >>creative, and truly communicative albums I've heard in a long time.
> 
> Is this the same band that's often unfavorably compared to The Orb?

	I haven't heard any such comparisons.  I think they're pretty
different.  Orbital's stuff is much more predictably rhythmic.  I have no
trouble picturing people dancing to them, whereas much of the Orb's music
is pretty amorphous.  I have to admit that I didn't really like Orbital's
first album much, although I'm very tempted to look into again after being
completely overwhelmed by their second.

> Well, I find it hard not to find ravers incredibly naive and childish at 
> times.  I suppose its just a subculture thing.  Industrial is a post-punk 
> thing and rave is a sort of return to hippie values.  And as punks used 
> to say, "Never trust a hippie."  (I'm being a bit flippant here, though I  
> don't feel like inserting the requisite smily face.)  Seriously though, 
> in a society which uses psychotherapy and "self-help" as tools of social 
> control and brands any act of rebellion as "negative", of course I'm 
> going to be damn suspicious of anybody telling me to be more "positive".  
> That doesn't mean I necessarily embrace negativity for its own sake (a 
> la Boyd Rice) either.

	I think it's an oversimplification to dismiss rave culture as a
neo-hippie movement.  They do have many values in common, but I think that
many of the ideals the hippies embraced were experimented with long before
the 1960s.  I think many people believe that the hippie movement failed
because its ideals were too naive.  I think the movement failed because
its ideals were trivialized and commercialized.  Unfortunately, this also
seems to be increasingly true of rave culture as well.  This seems to be
the trend in all underground movements.  
	The mainstream steals from and is strengthened by the innovations
of the avante garde.  A perfect example is cinema.  Mainstream movies are
much more technically sophisticated now, due in large part to assimilation
of techniques developed by experimental directors.  However, they are just
as inane and manipulative as they have always been.  
	I recognize that there are many subtle mechanisms of control
operating in our society.  Did you consider that one of the most effective
and insidious is to allow 'rebellious' behavior to be rigorously defined
and channeled.  Raves used to get busted by the police all the time.  When
was the last time you went to an industrial show that was raided?  I think
the fact that rave raids are becoming rarer all the time is a sign that
the movement has been diverted and diluted and that the powers that be
don't consider to be much of a threat anymore. 

> As for the embrace of dissonance, I think its accounted for some damn 
> fine music over the years, not just from the industrial genre, but music 
> as far back as Stravinsky (if not further).  I'd say a lot of the better 
> techno makes use of dissonance as well.  The creative potential of 
> dissonance has hardly been exhausted.

	I agree, but there are many artists who seem to believe that
dissonance can substitute for creativity or genuine emotion.

> Well, I'd say the post-industrial genre is moving on, particularly 
> ambient industrial.  While it doesn't get nearly the amount of attention 
> that ambient techno is getting, its a source of the some of the most 
> original music in recent years.  I think that Coil's most recent releases  
> (Stolen & Contaminated Songs and the How To Destroy Angels remixes) 
> particularly attest to the health of post-industrial music.

	I was quite impressed with _How to Destroy Angels_.  My first
impression of SCS wasn't as favorable, but I intend to give it several
more listenings.  It's funny that you use Coil as an example, because
they also serve as a good example of what's possible when techno is
approached creatively.  I have in no means given up on industrial music
as a genre.  It just has a less prominent place in my listening than it
once did.

------- Message 5

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 14:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Miles Egan <cullen@scripps.edu>
Subject: Re: Hey Mr Fellow Shine Keeper
To: NM-LIST <nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9310110534.AA13886@netcom3.netcom.com>

On Sun, 10 Oct 1993, Mason Jones wrote:
> >Sure there's
> >a lot of shitty techno coming out these days.  You may even get me to
> >admit that the ratio of good to bad is considerably lower than most other
> >genres.  Nevertheless, the groups mentioned above have put out some of the
> >most fascinating and satisfying electronic music I've ever heard.  
> 
> People keep saying that, and I keep trying it, and I keep hearing more
> of the same old same old. I borrowed a friend's Orb CDs, and listened
> to them, and heard nothing which hadn't been done in a similar and
> fresher way many years back by Zoviet France. I bought a Future Sound
> of London CD and found most of the tracks to be barely-differentiatable
> dance beats with minimal use of anything beyond rudimentary drum
> programming. I had friends tape me stuff by Aphex Twin and Polygon
> Window, and found it to be quite similar to analog recordings done
> in 1983 by people like Un-Film, Pacific 231, and If Bwana, merely
> laid down over a minimal trademark techno beat. I just haven't heard
> anything more than a few songs here and there which I found interesting,
> but I do keep trying. One of these days, maybe. I will freely admit
> that I haven't heard the new Orbital CD yet, and comments I've heard
> about the Gaia folk made me curious. I'll give them a shot at some
> point when someone makes me a tape or something, but I simply can't
> get my hopes up anymore, since so many people whose tastes I respect
> have proven to be unreliable for me when it comes to techno (nothing
> against them, I know it's all me).

	Perhaps it is more appropriate to talk about innovation and
experimentation within the confines of the genre.  Although there is a lot
of precedent for the compositional elements found in techno, I think the
most interesting artists have combined them in new ways.  Although I love
Zoviet France, I'm also quite fond of the Orb and I find that the two put
me in completely different states of mind.  It's not innovative structures
that draw me to the music as much as aesthetic enjoyment of it.  I think
what I find most satisfying about Zeni Geva (who totally blew me away last
night here in San Diego, by the way) and the Boredoms is that they present
both formal innovation :)  and a powerful, logical aesthetic.  The Orb and
the Orbital rely on less radical forms, but I don't think this compromises
the beauty or interest of their music.

> Absolutely true -- no argument here. I have nothing against positivity.
> I do have plenty against the empty, meaningless, vapid positivity that
> I see in most of the rave culture, but that's just the way things go
> when people start trading on the style, and not the substance, of
> something. The rave culture's been around here in SF for so long that
> it's become a parody of a parody of itself, or worse.

	I have to admit that I'm much more comfortable defending techno
music than the rave scene in general.  On the other hand, I also was very
dismissive of raves until I went to one in the proper state of mind :) and
had one the greatest evenings of my life.  It was an excellent opportunity
for me to re-examine some of the assumptions I had made about my ability
to move my body gracefully, interact with new people, and to be happy.  It
was very valuable to me and I think I would suggest that anyone ready to
write off raves without first trying a complete immersion should reconsider.

------- End of Forwarded Messages


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 20:49:11 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 20:49:42 PDT
Subject: HUH!?!??!! HAWKWIND!??!!
Status: 


In a recent posting about the Rio Rave , allen@ameba just happened to 
mention...

> From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
> Subject: SRL and Rio Rave
> 
> salutations
> allen@ameba
> 
> PS HAWKWIND COMING
> 
  OMIGAWD!!! As a big fan of this space-rock band , I MUST KNOW !!!!

 WHERE & WHEN is Hawkwind show going to be ?!!? 

 [ Sorry for the gushy stuff , but I've been waiting for these old geezers
   ( 5 to 10 years older n' me :-) ) to tour the USA again. Their last
   few releases have been getting better and better , without losing that 
   old edge of theirs. - If I had to describe their style , it's as if 
   Pink Floyd had gone headbanger without ditching their synthesizers 
   or becoming terminally depressed. Kind of an old-school version of early
   ButtHole Surfers. ]

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 20:49:55 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@squick.eit.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 20:49:15 -0700
Subject: SRL show in SF Bay Area
Status: 


Rumor has it that SRL is having a show in the SF Bay Area... I believe it
is on Nov 17 or 19, but can't exactly remember the date becuz my notes are
at home and I'm still at work. I heard that this is going to be at the
Phoenix Iron Works warehouse in Oakland, and that they will destroy the
building (??).

Not quite a site worth destroying, IMHO, but maybe all the squatters
decrepitated it, or maybe someone snagged some aluminum siding on his
facial piercings, and in the process of extrication, decided see whether
the siding would pull out before the facial piercing did. This act of "self
expression" causing enough structural damage to get the building condemned,
thereby paving the way for SRL's show. I believe the act also spawned a
whole genre of neo-avant-circus performance-art, the pinnacle of this
movement being the interlocked nosering tug-o-war.

So anyways, last time I was at Phoenix Iron Works was like 3-4 years ago to
see the BeatNigs and a bunch of other bands doing a "rock against racism"
shindig (which was bumrushed by a bunch of Nazi skins who subsequently got
the shit beaten out of them, much to my pleasure). But I digress, eh?

Anyways.... if that rumor is true, I'm wondering what this event will be
like.  Given that the turnout for SRL is massive, and Phoenix Iron Works is
not so large, I would imagine that most of the audience will be watching
this event from out on the street (in a totally scrungy part of Oakland's
warehouse district). Could be interesting, but I wonder how they're going
to get away with it.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=		       Niels Mayer -- mayer@eit.com                         =
=	     MultiMedia Engineering Collaborative Environment               =
= Enterprise Integration Technologies, 459 Hamilton Ave, Palo Alto CA 94301 =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 20:53:36 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 20:52:43 PDT
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 

Andy Nourse said:
> 
> >   Yeah, lets!  My vote again is La Azteca, just for convenience's sake, but
> >   if someone knows a similar place closer by (no, not Carl's Jr.) then let's
> >   go for it!
> 
>     Tu Lan would be far more convenient (not even a block away), just
>     as cheap, and very good food.
> 
	My vote's Tu Lan, 'cause from what people say it seems closer
& maybe a bit better.

-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 11 23:16:11 1993
From: gangriel@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 23:16:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Dead Can Dance (if they can get a ticket)
Status: 

Even if the Zellerbach is sold out, keep your eyes and ears open in the Bay Area
Last time they came about, they threw several underground shows at medium sized
clubs up here and down in LA. So, with luck...you never know...

Merry Xmas!
--Stefan

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 00:55:02 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 00:54:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Pre-Orb SFR dinner?
Status: 

	well i for one *love* azteca, and it's right around the
	corner from my house, so i would vote for that.  we can 
	also just take the muni trains to the warfield...

	and as far as where to see the show... my ideal spot would
	be near the very front of the balcony in the middle, or 
	anywhere as long as it's in the middle as i assume they
	will be running their rig in stereo.

caliban/rocky


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 03:43:53 1993
From: Joanna [Jo] <jng@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 03:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Mosh pit?
Status: 

> 
> At  3:30 PM 10/11/93 -0600, Pete Ashdown wrote:
> >> Whats a mosh pit,
> >
> >Testosterone laced movements of stress relief under close quartered
> >conditions.  Usually better suited for fast, grindy, banging music, or all of
> >the above.  Not conditions The Orb meets.
> would bash themselves senseless right alongside of all the boys, and
> out-bashing most of us wimps.
> Though the stress-relief part is very valid. 

aye, that's true indeed-  and i still have the scars that prove it. 
whoever said women couldn't mosh with the best of 'em? hmph.

nothing wrong with it...a method of getting one's agressions out without
resorting to senseless violence. 

<a sigh for moshing dayz gone by>


-vampyre
> 
> 
> jamie

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 05:45:29 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 05:47:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sound systemn at the Orb
Status: 

I assume they are using the warfield sound system. ack. I been to so many 
concerts there that my ears always rinbg. Can't we use Ethan's sound 
system??:)


Cindy
 -- 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 08:49:21 1993
From: geoffw@gaia.internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 08:44:25 PDT
Subject: Re: ComeUnity in early Nov !
Status: 


> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Mon Oct 11 10:06 PDT 1993
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 10:04:17 -0700
> From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: ComeUnity in early Nov !
> 
>   There's probably going to be a real ComeUnity in early Nov!
> Dont let anyone ever say the ravescene is dead.
> -Chris.
> 

If this is true, then it is the BEST news I've heard in a LONG time.
Way to go Mal!

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 09:05:05 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 10:05:22 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Mosh pit?
Status: 

> > At  3:30 PM 10/11/93 -0600, Pete Ashdown wrote:
> > >> Whats a mosh pit,
> > >
> > >Testosterone laced movements of stress relief under close quartered
> > >conditions.  Usually better suited for fast, grindy, banging music, or all of
> > >the above.  Not conditions The Orb meets.
> > would bash themselves senseless right alongside of all the boys, and
> > out-bashing most of us wimps.
> > Though the stress-relief part is very valid. 
> 
> aye, that's true indeed-  and i still have the scars that prove it. 
> whoever said women couldn't mosh with the best of 'em? hmph.

I've been besieged with mail about this.  I SAID "LACED!!"  LACED! TINTED!
FRINGED!  FROSTED!  NOT AS A WHOLE!

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 09:35:51 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 09:36:26 -0700
Subject: Whats best rave this Sat night?
Status: 


Was thinking of attending "Its a small world" where Carlos is spinning.
But there are 3 major events taking place including "small World".

I'm wondering which of you folks in sfraves might be attending?   Also,
there is Orb on Fri night.   So,  looks like a busy weekend this week.

Any comments on whats the best one to attend?

Cheers
CC

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 10:47:30 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 10:35:08 PDT
Subject: Re: Mosh pit?
Status: 

>>Testosterone laced movements of stress relief under close quartered
>>conditions.  Usually better suited for fast, grindy, banging music, or all of
>>the above.  Not conditions The Orb meets.

>I dunno- When I was being a punk, nearly all of my friends were women who
>would bash themselves senseless right alongside of all the boys, and
>out-bashing most of us wimps.
>Though the stress-relief part is very valid.

Hey, we all have testosterone and estrogen, right?  Just not as much of one
as the other.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 11:47:33 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 11:46:33 PDT
Subject: Re: Mosh pit?
Status: 


>   wouldn't a slither pile be more fun?? and more fitting??? partyon...susie (:


    Of course it would.

    Methinks we were joking about a mosh pit because the Orb is about
    as different from the kind of music people mosh to as you can get.

        c u Friday...
        or perhaps at YSH the night before...

        &andy
        


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 12:08:10 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 12:07:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Whats best rave this Sat night?
Status: 

On Oct 12,  9:36am, you proclaimed:
} I'm wondering which of you folks in sfraves might be attending?   Also,
} there is Orb on Fri night.   So,  looks like a busy weekend this week.
} 
} Any comments on whats the best one to attend?

Liquid Air Liquid Air Liquid Air Liquid Air Liquid Air Liquid Air

Will be OUTDOORS

Will be DONATION-ONLY

Will be in a FRESH SPACE

Will feature the best in the new wave of DJ talent: Jon D, Laura, and
coming all the way up from LA, Tamara, and Cris B

Will feature the legendary Liquid Air sound system

And will generally be A GOOD TIME :)

Phone # - 415-487-8497

See you all there!

	Brian


----------------------------------------------------------------------
basically, who cares?  would you rather watch a totally 'live' and 
totally boring act that doesn't even break a sweat or an act that puts 
things on dat and puts on a good show? - Richard Hall, on USENET

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 12:24:02 1993
From: standish@lowone.mfg.sgi.com (Michael Standish)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 12:26:07 -0700
Subject: re:Whats best rave this Sat night?
Status: 

John Draper asks: I'm wondering which (rave) you folks in sfraves might be
attending?

Saturday, October 16th - Liquid Air
	DJs Tamara, Laura, Jon D., Cris
	Audio by Sound Vision
	info: 415.487.8497
Not to be missed. Great DJs,good vibes,and lots of sfravers. Definetly the place
be.

Saturday, October 16th - Diverse City
	Jon Williams  La Paix + guests
	415-469-2027
This is a new weekly put on by my friend Dave so I plan to drop by and check it
out.

Both are 1 phone# raves just the way i like 'em. I like Carlos a lot but It's
a small world is a 3 phone# party so i'm inclined to avoid it. Besides I can
see Carlos anytime and Laura Doesn't fly out from NY nearly often enough.

Peace
Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@lowone.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S





From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 12:25:06 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 12:24:26 PDT
Subject: Orb tix needed
Status: 



Anybody got an extra Orb ticket that I can buy?

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 12:28:20 1993
From: "Morris, Peter S." <psmorris@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 11:57:00 PDT
Subject: FW: levitate the s.f. stock exchange oct. 29
Status: 


This came in thru the lectronic vine, anyone heard anything about it????
Peter

================================

This item has been floating around our office a lot lately.  It's bound to 
be
 extremely well-attended, cause SF is a real Halloween kind of town.
 Yesterday, I read a posting that a whole crew of people were coming from
 Belgium just for this occasion, and bringing along a whole bunch of
 mondo-fresh acid!  It is a do-it-yourself kind of thing, I guess, because
 no one is oraganizing it (which is just fine with me).  Anyway, I picked up
 a flyer about it last week, the text of which follows:

___________________Begin ___________________________________________________

Happie Halloween!

A world-wide call out to all Wiccans, Radical Faeries, Chaoticians,
 Subversives, Pagans, Eco-warriors, Vampires, Undercover cops
 (natch), Drummers, Voodoo gurus, Queers, Ragga-muffins, Mojo
 mixers, Space aliens, Funk masters, Techno-trippers, Groove-cats,
 Zombies, Pranksters, Cyber-tribers, Anarchists Antichrists and
 Anaochronists, Poseurs, Wanna-be's, Almost-was's, and Has-been's

L  e  v  i  t  a  t  e
the S. F. Stock Exchange!!

A HUGE and VERY WEIRD CELEBRATION of the anniversary of
 the great stock market crash and the 13 + 13th anniverary of the
 levitating of the Pentagon. Help exorcise the Financial District of the
 demons that have plagued us all! Laugh while you levitate the stock
 exchange and dump it into the bay!  Jump for Joy as you banish the
 Bohemian Clubbers to the Hell from which they sprang, and (this is
 the REALLY weird part) golden toilet bowls sprout from
 the sidewalks.  Hoo-oooo, kids - it'll be so scaaarrrry!

don't miss: Night of the Living Dead Businessmen

Friday, October 29, 5:00 P. M.
        @
The S. F. Stock Exchange (Bush & Pine Sts.)

friend tell a friend tell a friend tell a friend tell a friend tell a friend

You:  Costumes  Haints  RYTHM  Food ART  Performance  Screwing Around Lunacy
 Magick  ART  Performance  Music  Dope  FUN  Color  Surpriiiiise!  Dancin'
 Elvis  BadNews  SEX  Ghastly  SPELLS  Liberacio'n  &Shit

The Corporate Monster doesn't stand a Ghost of a chance

info?  USENET alt.society.resistance

___________________________End______________________________________________  
__


Now THIS kind of early planning I can get behind!

I think we owe it to ourselves to spread the word on this kind of stuff. 
 Post
 this info all over the net and on every BBS in the world.  Cross post!
 Blanket post!  Post-modern post!

See you there!


S. Washburn

 --

Consider the lillies of the field, they toil not,
neither do they spin.  Worry not for tommorrow,
the worries of today are enough.  If a man asks
you to walk a mile with him, go with him two. Turn the other cheek.


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 12:55:30 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 12:57:32 -0800
Subject: Re: FW: levitate the s.f. stock exchange oct. 29
Status: 

At 11:57 AM 10/12/93 -0700, Morris, Peter S. wrote:
>This came in thru the lectronic vine, anyone heard anything about it????

If you want stickers, flyers, etc., get alhold of me. Waddiya wanna know?


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 13:27:13 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 13:29:21 -0800
Subject: Re: FW: levitate the s.f. stock exchange oct. 29
Status: 

At  1:17 PM 10/12/93 -0700, Bob Carasik wrote:
>Yay! Tell me more.  I've already heard of this via Cacophony Society,
>but perhaps there's more to it.  Would you mind posting more details
>to the list?  Thanks.
>
>AstroBoy


Well, it is all pretty straightforward. The flyers, the posters, the
net.propaganda all basically says all there is to say about it- I know the
guy organizing it and he is expecting 5-digit crowds- there are quite a few
travelling out here for it, from what I hear. The Cramps are supposed to be
there for a short performance, along with some other acts pending (of
course there is no permit, so the crowds will have to stay thick to help
hold the police away, but that shouldn't be a problem), and some people who
didn't want to be announced. Anyway, it all culminates in -you guessed it-
the Stock Exchange levitation, wherein it gets dumped in the Bay. The
organization of it is all very not there- if you want to do something show
up and do it!


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 13:32:21 1993
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Date: 12 Oct 1993 13:30:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: levitation, degaussing, and other wickery
Status: 

Someone please forward to me an addr associated w these pagan maniacs
  who are 'organizing' this thang, if such a term is allowable under 
  these circumstances...  if they need a flyer, it's done!
Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 13:43:28 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 13:44:00 -0700
Subject: This Sat
Status: 


>Saturday, October 16th - Liquid Air
>        DJs Tamara, Laura, Jon D., Cris
>        Audio by Sound Vision
>        info: 415.487.8497
>Not to be missed. Great DJs,good vibes,and lots of sfravers. Definetly the place
>be.

Hmmm!!  How long will it last??   Will it go on into the morning at least till 8
am?    If so,  then I will definately try and attend it.

Cheers
JD

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 14:18:09 1993
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 14:18:02 -0700
Subject: Re:  This Sat
Status: 

JD asks about Liquid Air:

>Hmmm!!  How long will it last??   Will it go on into the morning at least 
>till 8 am?    If so,  then I will definately try and attend it.

Well, you know how it is with with free outdoor renegades:  they generally go 
until either it becomes a good idea to leave (i.e. the sun comes up and 
non-ravers start appearing on their morning jogs and get annoyed that we're 
around) or until we decide to leave (i.e. all the DJs have played and people 
are getting cold and tired and the attendance starts dwindling) or until we 
HAVE to leave (i.e. the cops show up).  Being willing to party under these 
conditions is part of what makes a renegade a renegade.  If you want iron-clad 
guarantees then go to a club.

We DO promise new DJs deadicated to having fun and bringing you the music they 
love, a BEAUTIFUL sound system, and nice organized caring people hosting the 
event.  And since it's a free/donations event, you get to decide what it
was worth to you, and pay accordingly, instead of having to put money up in
advance and then feel ripped off if you didn't have a good time.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 14:41:44 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 12 Oct 1993 14:41:07 -0700
Subject: murder
Status: 


anyone have details on the Charter Oak (was that the warehouse?) murder of
the Recycled guest list person last week?

this one stings inside.
randy

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 15:44:03 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 15:46:15 -0800
Subject: If you are not JUMP IN THE FIRE then delete me.
Status: 

This bounced when I tried to send it direct. sorry to bug the whole list
with this.


>At  2:00 PM 10/12/93 -0700, JUMP IN THE FIRE wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you want stickers, flyers, etc., get alhold of me. Waddiya wanna know?
>>> 
>>
>>How to get some?  I'll gladly spread some around the South Bay...
>>
>>// g
>
>Well, that would probably require a meeting of some sort. I work in
>Emoryville, live in the Mission (in SF) and don't have any transprtation
>except for public and feet. If you want to call me- 641-5874.


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 15:55:39 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 15:55:53 -0700
Subject: Re:  This Sat
Status: 

yes it will from what Tamara told us, she will start djing at 6am.

hoss

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 16:07:53 1993
From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 16:08:21 PDT
Subject: re:Whats best rave this Sat night?
Status: 


Don't forget LEE, our amazing sfraves dj, will also be spinning at Liquid Air!

Tam

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 16:46:12 1993
From: Lavonne.Walton@Corp.Sun.COM (Lavonne Walton)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 16:41:06 PDT
Subject: hello sfraves from SunShine
Status: 



hello all``


I've been lurking around on this mailing list for a couple-o weeks and
thought I take a shot at the 'rave' world.
I'm not particularly a 'cool' or ultra-hip person, just plain ole me
that likes to dance till dawn-excuse memorning and prefer shock
treatment to bring me back into reality..  enuf...

Anwyay is this list dying out??? I thought the focus was going
to be on the sfrave scene, discussions of smart drinks, fun, games,
costs, which ones to go/avoid and good/bad stories.( I can be blind sometimes..)

so whats up????

lvn

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 18:00:12 1993
From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 17:54:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: hello sfraves from SunShine
Status: 



On Tue, 12 Oct 1993, Lavonne Walton wrote:

> Anwyay is this list dying out??? I thought the focus was going
> to be on the sfrave scene, discussions of smart drinks, fun, games,
> costs, which ones to go/avoid and good/bad stories.( I can be blind sometimes..)
> 
> so whats up????
> 
> lvn

  Sunshine:

  The rhythms of this list are a lot like raves: Sometimes a groove-thread
comes through that sets the email going at 180 BPM. Other times, folks are
mulling over other things in their lives, and only read/lurk. A good rave
(like the GG Park event) draws lots of stories. Others, nothing.
Sometimes there's philosophy, sometimes record reviews, sometimes just
general weirdness. But don't go away! Just stay with us! If you get lonely,
zoom over than download the sfraves FAQ -- good for serious reading.
  "To rave is to affirm."




From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 18:32:13 1993
From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 18:32:41 PDT
Subject: Re:  This Sat
Status: 


> 
> yes it will from what Tamara told us, she will start djing at 6am.
> 
> hoss
> 
> 
Sorry, that's not confirmed.


-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
                                Tamara Palmer
                              trance@netcom.com
                   Les beats sont hypnotiques et hallucinants
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 19:43:52 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 19:44:23 PDT
Subject: re:Whats best rave this Sat night?
Status: 

Well, I do have a vested interest in one particular rave.
But, I want to say that they're *all* gonna be good, if you're in
the right mood for that particular experience.  We have Revival
with the Wicked posse, It's a Small World with the ever wonderful
Carlos n Dutch, the startup of Diverse City with Jon Williams and
La Paix.  As well as the awesome Rhythm at 1015 with Jan Cooley
and Markie.  All should be great, up to their usual high standards,
and showcasing some of the best well-known talent the Bay Area has
to offer.

I think it's important to mention that I have lots of involvement
with the Fluid Groove posse.  We are a loose association of 
volunteers who believe in bringing together the best talent and
thinking the Bay Area has to offer (as well as the best talent
available throughout the country!).  We are dedicated ravers
who've been around the scene and have seen how it's done. So, I
speak with some pride in our accomplishments. But, you should
know that I speak with some prejudice.

The *only* renegade that night will be Liquid Air.  Brought
to you by the Fluid Groove posse.  We care about ourselves enough to
bring quality sound (nrg's Sound Vision sound system--truly the 
best system *i've* ever heard at a renegade), quality DJs (Tamara, 
Lee, Laura, Chris and Jon D. [God's personal DJ, BTW]), and a quality 
location.  

Bring that together with a quality price (free, but we'll ask you for 
a donation to help cover our expenses) and a truly outstanding group of 
people, stir, and you have the essence of rave. Truly the basics of rave.
No high prices, no problem with ins and outs, no problem with
ID checks at the door (what door?), engaging conversation where you
can hear your partner(s) if you want, pumping music, driving bass bins,
beautiful scenery, free water, fresh air.   Is there something I
missed? Oh, yes, while providing you the safety and space to be your
true self, without judgement, in celebration. And, plenty of space to
dance in.

Anyway, I extend a personal invitation to you and yours to come experience
a universe of sound surrounding you like Liquid Air. I can't guarantee
you'll have a good time; only you can help us there. We hope you'll come
share our favorite music in an atmosphere of peace and joy.
-- 
Bryce Ryan ---------- AMBIANCE ------- brycer@netcom.com------
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party 10/16 -----
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 20:02:18 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Tue, 12 Oct 1993 20:01:52 -0700
Subject: Source for DJ equipment needed
Status: 

I'm right at the point of making the big plunge to buy the stuff needed
for a practice DJ setup.  The one place in Portland that has 1200s in
stock is asking $450 (ech).  I haven't been able to track down the
Pro Sound place listed in the 1200.faq . . . I'd be willing to do mail
order from a *reputable* place with good service at a reasonable price,
otherwise I'll buy from the locals.  Any ideas?

I had a momentary crush on a Biamp DJ3600 mixer, but the price was a bit
of a whomp ($960!).  So I guess it's gonna be a cheapo mixer for me after
all :)

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 12 20:57:53 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 20:57:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Source for DJ equipment needed
Status: 

Uncle Ralph's in Berkeley has 1200's for $399 each; they *might* be grey
market but U.R. is a totally reputable electronics store so they'll fully
warrantee everything (not like you NEED a warranty on 1200's, but still).

They also have pretty good prices on Numark and (if you're not a musical
snob, they have always worked fine for me)  Gemini mixers.

You couldn't find any listing for Pro Sound Audio?  I do remember it
being in Garden Grove, CA if that helps...

	Brian

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 00:45:57 1993
From: wicked@netcom.com
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 0:46:26 PDT
Subject: re:Whats best rave this Sat night?
Status: 

> As well as the awesome Rhythm at 1015 with Jan Cooley
> and Markie.  All should be great, up to their usual high standards,
> and showcasing some of the best well-known talent the Bay Area has
> to offer.
> 

	'Rhythm' happens at 177 TOWNNSEND on saturdays 10:30-7:00am.

	This weeks line up as follows;

				      10:30-1:00am  Jan Cooley
				
				       1:00-3:00am  Markie

				       3:00-5:00am  Jeno

				       5:00-7:00am  Neon Leon.


	See you there,
		       Markie  !)




-- 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 00:52:03 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 00:51:18 PDT
Subject: Re: fwd from nm-list re raves vs. industrial (etc).
Status: 


>   Dogmatic thinking of any kind becomes tiresome in a big hurry.

    Always preferred catma to dogma, myself... :^)

>   I find it hard not to find ravers incredibly naive and childish at times.

    I don't think we are really all that naive about the state of
    things, we may prefer not to rub our noses in it all the time.        

>   I suppose its just a subculture thing.  Industrial is a post-punk 
>   thing and rave is a sort of return to hippie values.

    What are "post-punk" values?

>   And as punks used to say, "Never trust a hippie."

    Before that (a lot before) it was "Never trust a Prankster",
    which was said by the Merry Pranksters, of themselves. :^)

>   in a society which uses psychotherapy and "self-help" as tools of social 
>   control and brands any act of rebellion as "negative", of course I'm 
>   going to be damn suspicious of anybody telling me to be more "positive".  

    I wouldn't dream of telling you that.  But for me, being negative
    all the time got really depressing, and wallowing in negativity was
    disempowering and generally got in the way.  I would justify it
    on the grounds that that obviously was they way things were, and
    that I was just being realistic about it all.  The problem was
    that it made it very difficult to visualize how it might look if
    it were better, which is a precondition to making it *be* better.

>   I think the rave scene tends to limit the creative potential of techno.  

    I think perceptions of the rave scene might be limiting.
    F'rinstance, most DJs are afraid that people can't dance to something
    in 7/4 time, so they won't play it.

>   For example, Sven Vath's Accident In Paradise is a great piece, but how 
>   widely embraced has it been by ravers?  Not much;
>   "Can't dance to it, man." 

    As someone who will attempt to dance to just about anything,
    I think I'd take that as a challenge.



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 02:28:51 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 02:28:45 -0700
Subject: forwarded message
Status: 


From resonate@netcom.com Tue Oct 12 22:43:10 1993
From: resonate@netcom.com (resonate analog)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 22:43:10 -0700
Subject: Re:  srl
Status: R

>From circa Tue Oct 12 12:28:14 1993
Return-Path: <circa>
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
	id AA09261; Tue, 12 Oct 93 12:28:13 -0700
From: circa (Circa '93)
Message-Id: <9310121928.AA09261@netcom.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: orbital+aphex twin
To: gristle@netcom.com (gristle analog)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 12:28:12 PDT
In-Reply-To: <9310060638.AA29872@netcom2.netcom.com>; from "gristle analog" at Oct 5, 93 11:38 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: R

Circa 93 - Media Release
 
om laboratories presents
Circa 93: Central Processing Unit                  Ticket Information:
A Showcase of Art, Music, and Technology           +1 213 683 3549
Directed and Produced by Tef & Richard Duardo      +1 714 502 2225
on November 13, 1993                               Advance purchase $20 
at 500 E. Commercial Street                        at Ticketmaster
one block east of Alameda in downtown L.A.         $25 at door
a benefit for L.A.'s best                          Concession info 
                                                   +1 213 687 0775
 
 
Om Laboratories, on November thirteenth, will be producing its second annual
CIRCA event. Circa 93 is a digital showcase, merging art, music, and
technology. We will be presenting a live performance show, featuring MOBY,
ORBITAL, and APHEX TWIN. The rising digital shamen from Chicago, Los Angeles,
New York, and San Francisco will pulse the booming bass, commanding every
foot to groove. High sensory stimulation, in the form of real-time computer
generated graphics and animations by AREA 17 using an assortment of platforms
including 3DO, CD-i, Macintosh, and PC. We will also be featuring a live
connection to the Internet Virtual Rave through which attendees can interact
with Internet users worldwide.
 
The concept is based upon using the newest technological advances, in a
direct applicatioon for enhancing the entertainment experience. This
interactive digital showcase is a platform for artists creating in new media.
Also the cutting edge animations created by CARL SIMS on his latest
artificial life software (published in Art Futura's last issue) will be
featured, as well as visuals from the "MEMORY PLACE" showcase.
 
For your information, the promotional schedule for this event includes
200,000 full color posters, 40,000 teaser flyers, as well as 40,000 inserts
in both the L.A. Weekly and Urb Magazine. The promotional team stretches
across the entire West Coast. This production is all about bringing everyone
together, both to reflect on 1993 and to experience the future.
 
For more information or for PGP public key, finger or email circa@netcom.com.
-- 




From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 04:56:01 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 12:56:53 BST
Subject: Re: hello sfraves from SunShine
Status: 


  Arthur> If you get lonely, zoom over than download the sfraves FAQ
  Arthur> -- good for serious reading.

Or if you have internet access, check out vrave.

telnet sfraves.stanford.edu 7283

(the way to remember 7283 is to spell RAVE on a telephone keypad)


	Cosmic Roy



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 05:01:45 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 13:02:44 BST
Subject: Re: fwd from nm-list re raves vs. industrial (etc).
Status: 


  Andy>     I think perceptions of the rave scene might be limiting.
  Andy> F'rinstance, most DJs are afraid that people can't dance to
  Andy> something in 7/4 time, so they won't play it.

I think the bigger problem is gonna be mixing between choons in
different time signatures.  Part of the reason that mixes can sound so
natural is the structural similarity of a lot of techno (ie 4/4 time
with a 4 bar phrase structure)

I dare say that a good dj could pull it off though....

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 07:03:53 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 07:03:14 PDT
Subject: test to me
Status: 

foo

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 07:41:54 1993
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 07:41:32 -0700
Subject: Re: fwd from nm-list re raves vs. industrial (etc).
Status: 

Someone from some industrial list or something said:

>   For example, Sven Vath's Accident In Paradise is a great piece, but how 
>   widely embraced has it been by ravers?  Not much;
>   "Can't dance to it, man." 

Well, I don't know where this person has been, but "Accident in Paradise"
was really HUGE in the New York/New England area about a year ago.  You'd
hear it at every party, rave, or techno club night, and the crowd always
went crazy.  It was as big as Hardfloor's "Acsperience" was (before 
"Acsperience" came out).  How can you not dance to a 4/4 time track with
an absolutely killer bass line?  Sven Vath couldn't have made it easier
if he tried.  I played it at Your Sister's House and people had no trouble 
dancing to it.

I wonder if the person who said this is confusing the sort of young, trendy, 
club-kid type of raver (we have a lot of them out East) with what a lot
of us consider "ravers" to be:  thoughtful people who prefer to make a 
space for and take a stand for positivity while rejecting pollyannaism,
people who are open-minded about exploring many forms of dance music, and
people who just LOVE to have fun.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 07:52:19 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 15:52:56 BST
Subject: Re: fwd from nm-list re raves vs. industrial (etc).
Status: 



  Laura> Someone from some industrial list or something said:

>   For example, Sven Vath's Accident In Paradise is a great piece, but how 
>   widely embraced has it been by ravers?  Not much;
>   "Can't dance to it, man." 

  Laura> Well, I don't know where this person has been, but "Accident
  Laura> in Paradise" was really HUGE in the New York/New England area
  Laura> about a year ago.  You'd hear it at every party, rave, or
  Laura> techno club night, and the crowd always went crazy.  It was
  Laura> as big as Hardfloor's "Acsperience" was (before "Acsperience"
  Laura> came out).  How can you not dance to a 4/4 time track with an
  Laura> absolutely killer bass line?


Hmm... I wonder if he was talking about the album (as a whole).  Most
of the album is rather too ambient to spin anywhere except the
chillout room, (unless perhaps you mix something on top of it).

(Though i've said that about a lot of choons, and then changed my mind
when i've heard them through a real soundsystem....:)

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 09:12:13 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 09:12:45 -0700
Subject: Liquid Air
Status: 

>>>Saturday, October 16th - Liquid Air
>>>        DJs Tamara, Laura, Jon D., Cris
>>>        Audio by Sound Vision
>>>        info: 415.487.8497
>>>Not to be missed. Great DJs,good vibes,and lots of sfravers. Definetly the ple
>>>be.
>>
>>Hmmm!!  How long will it last??   Will it go on into the morning at least till8
>>am?    If so,  then I will definately try and attend it.

>we're currently planning midnight to 8 AM, yes.

Oh!!  Great!!  Sounds like I might change my plans.   Was thinking of
also dropping by "Small World" and hear Calos spin from 3 - 5 am,  then
coming back to Liquid Air.   Where's it gonna be?   

CC

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 09:52:46 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 09:52:40 -0700
Subject: finding renegade parties
Status: 

JD (crunch) asks (and possibly a few other pepole are wondering, so I'm 
posting to the list):

>>>Saturday, October 16th - Liquid Air
>>>        DJs Tamara, Laura, Jon D., Cris
>>>        Audio by Sound Vision
>>>        info: 415.487.8497

>then coming back to Liquid Air.   Where's it gonna be?   

Tips on finding renegade parties:

 * Renegade locations are not given out in advance for security reasons.

 * Call the information line a day or so before the party to find out when and 
	where the actual directions will be given.  In the case of Liquid
	Air, you can call the info line after 10pm on the night of the party to 
	find out exactly where the party is located.
	
 * When you call, have paper and pen ready to take down directions.  Call back 
	a second time or record it on your answering machine so as to check 
	what you took down. 
	
 * Obtain a street map for the areas you usually go to renegades in (there
	are some wonderful ones available in local bookstores), and  check 
	the party location directions against the map before you depart.

 * Bring the info line phone number with you when you go out in case you get 
	to the actual party location and don't see the party (like, maybe it 
	got busted and so had to move and hopefully the new location will be 
	on the info line), or in case you lose the directions.

 * Even if you are not the driver, call and get the directions anyway in
	case the driver loses them, or in case you end up being much more
	familiar with the area described than the driver.

I have followed these steps ever since I started raving over a year ago and I 
have never gotten so lost that I missed a party.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 11:57:22 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 11:57:42 -0700
Subject: Re:  This Sat
Status: 

oops!

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 12:39:11 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 12:38:26 PDT
Subject: Re: fwd from nm-list re raves vs. industrial (etc).
Status: 


>   Dogmatic thinking of any kind becomes tiresome in a big hurry.

    Always preferred catma to dogma, myself... :^)

>   I find it hard not to find ravers incredibly naive and childish at times.

    I don't think we are really all that naive about the state of
    things, we may prefer not to rub our noses in it all the time.        

>   I suppose its just a subculture thing.  Industrial is a post-punk 
>   thing and rave is a sort of return to hippie values.

    What are "post-punk" values?

>   And as punks used to say, "Never trust a hippie."

    Before that (a lot before) it was "Never trust a Prankster",
    which was said by the Merry Pranksters, of themselves. :^)

>   in a society which uses psychotherapy and "self-help" as tools of social 
>   control and brands any act of rebellion as "negative", of course I'm 
>   going to be damn suspicious of anybody telling me to be more "positive".  

    I wouldn't dream of telling you that.  But for me, being negative
    all the time got really depressing, and wallowing in negativity was
    disempowering and generally got in the way.  I would justify it
    on the grounds that that obviously was they way things were, and
    that I was just being realistic about it all.  The problem was
    that it made it very difficult to visualize how it might look if
    it were better, which is a precondition to making it *be* better.

>   I think the rave scene tends to limit the creative potential of techno.  

    I think perceptions of the rave scene might be limiting.
    F'rinstance, most DJs are afraid that people can't dance to something
    in 7/4 time, so they won't play it.

>   For example, Sven Vath's Accident In Paradise is a great piece, but how 
>   widely embraced has it been by ravers?  Not much;
>   "Can't dance to it, man." 

    As someone who will attempt to dance to just about anything,
    I think I'd take that as a challenge.



------- End of Forwarded Message



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 14:01:25 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 13:59:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: fwd from nm-list re raves vs. industrial (etc).
Status: 

RAVERS ARE FLAKEY!!!!!! partyon....susie (:



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 15:03:07 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 13 Oct 1993 15:14:43 -0800
Subject: MOTION
Status: 

                       Subject:                               Time:14:56
  OFFICE MEMO          MOTION                                 Date:10/13/93
Hey gang,

     For all of you who are wanting some dance-mania on a Wednesday night come
on down to F/X for some    MOTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Tonight is the first party so
please check out DJs Loren, Rick Preston, and headliner Markie Mark!!!
Let's get San Jose into the swing of things!

Keep it Alive and Thrive               T. Scot



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 15:18:59 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 15:19:30 -0700
Subject: finding renegade parties
Status: 

Laura says:

>I have followed these steps ever since I started raving over a year ago and I 
>have never gotten so lost that I missed a party.

Yea!!  As you had mentioned earlier,   my biggest problem is that sometimes
the directions are given too fast,   and I have to call several times
to get the info.  I almost will always call from payphones and don't often
have the change (Some of these payphones charge $1 for local calls - at least
the COCOT (private ones),  and often the connections are so poor that I
often give up.    

When the directions are put down on the phone,  you (or whoever puts the
message on the vmail),  should write down what you say as you speak out
the directions (hopefully slow enough to write them down).

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 15:28:30 1993
From: (Chris.Hilker) <cspot@cats.ucsc.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 15:28:25 +45722824
Subject: Ride to Orb from Santa Cruz area?
Status: 

OK, my friend has committed to go...but he's flaked in the past. In case
he does again, does anybody out there have room for one more? I'd be happy
to help out in terms of gas money.

C.

--
(chris.hilker) cspot@cats.ucsc.edu

"Warning!  Bogus newsgroup: alt.hackers.malicious"

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 15:30:57 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 15:31:28 -0700
Subject: Re:  MOTION
Status: 

So,  where is it going to be held at??   No location or phone number
was given.

JD

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 15:41:12 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 13 Oct 1993 15:53:55 -0800
Subject: Re:  MOTION
Status: 

                       Subject:                               Time:15:35
  OFFICE MEMO          RE> MOTION                             Date:10/13/93
>So,  where is it going to be held at??   No location or phone number
>was given.

>JD

Ooops  

     Motion is held at 400 S. First st (club F/X)  in San Jose ( enter at the
side door )  Phone number  408-236-3787
      
           T.  Scot



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 15:45:57 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 15:45:32 PDT
Subject:  MOTION
Status: 


From an email sent to this list by jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) last
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???
Status: 

(Wednesdays starting Oct. 13th) Motion - 400 S. 1st Street in San Jose
$3 before 11:30, $5 thereafter.

Lineup:
Oct 13 - DJ's Lauren, Rick Preston, & Markie Mark
(Loren is the latest in a line of great new up-n-coming DJ's.   Check him out!)

Oct 20 - DJ's Lauren, Harry Who, & Tony

Oct 27 - DJ's Tamotsu, Rick Preston, & Spun

Info: 408-236-3787

I'll be there...
Bob

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 16:55:14 1993
From: Glenn Escudero <ST340227%SJSUVM1.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
Date:         Wed, 13 Oct 93 16:48:25 PDT
Subject:      Orb carpool from San Jose
Status: 

Anyone out there going to see Orb this Friday and passing by San Jose?
If so, I might need a lift to&from the Warfield.  Send your response to my
e-mail address - ST340227@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu


Thanks!

                                        Forever in Rave,

                                              Glenn J. Escudero

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 17:02:23 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 16:18:27 -0800
Subject: levitate the stock market
Status: 

To everyone interested in this- I don't really have anything to do with it!
I know some people who are, but am in no way involved. If you have more
questions, please take them to alt.society.resistance. If you want
stickers, Send me more mail and I will send you an eps file. Steal some
sticker backing and laser printing from work, and there you go ;-). All the
knowledgeable people on this hang out in alt.society.resistance, and
proably will be glad to fill you in. 
thanks, and sorry if I confused anyone.


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 17:44:18 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 17:44:51 -0700
Subject: Re: finding renegade parties 
Status: 

From crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???
Status: 

Either that, or you should have someone with an incomprehensibly thick
cockney accent who has been up for three days and is slurring his words
in a way that is only understandable by others who are equally wasted.

Unfortunately, the latter seems to  be the norm w/ phone messages.
Fortunately, my answering machine lets me record messages, so at least
i don't have to redial to hear people attempting to speak english.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 18:55:12 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 21:55:04 EDT
Subject: Re: finding renegade parties 
Status: 

Even with my handy-dandy recording answering machine, I've often had
to listen to a message 2 or 3 times to get it down. Much worse if
someone is at a payphone next to a noisy street. Or if the listener
isn't familiar with the streets involved. I once wasted 30 minutes
because a slurred street name took me 8 miles out of my way (in the
San Jose area) to the wrong street.

Although he's probably not, assume your listener is on LSD. Speak
S-L-O-W-L-Y and C-L-E-A-R-L-Y. Have a guinea pig listen to your
message and evaluate its intelligibility.

Like Laura, I've always gotten there, even before I knew one street in
town. Yet I have been sorely frustrated before. That's what good
directions do: give you that warm fuzzy feeling. And I'm all for warm
fuzzies.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 13 19:57:05 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 19:56:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 111 MINNA
Status: 

Dianna x-toon town promoter posted this very interesting sounding
event in AMEBA today:

111mina is an art gallerey having a party sat oct 30th pre-party
8:00 pm live jazz and art inside. at 9pm mad scientist dungeon unfolds.
the street will be closed off and ernie munson and others will spin.
8 foot Tesla coil.  tent. full moon. midnight one million volts on tesla.
party till 8am. 18 and older allowed to stay becaUSE ITS NOT IN A CLUB,
its in the street. chill room in gallery.    415.974.1719

salutations
allen@ameba


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 05:17:56 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:18:58 BST
Subject: The Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 


Please forgive me for this completely out of context post... but can
someone remind me what the uv catastrophe is....  it's been anoying me
all week...

i recall it's something to do with some approximation that works for
the low-energy part of a spectrum, but fails to converge when you
integrate to infinity... (ie is wrong)... what was the approximation,
and what was it for...?  black body radiation...?

thanks,

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 05:59:14 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 05:58:15 -0700
Subject: Re: The Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

On Oct 14,  1:18pm, you proclaimed:
} Please forgive me for this completely out of context post... but can
} someone remind me what the uv catastrophe is....  it's been anoying me
} all week...
} 
} i recall it's something to do with some approximation that works for
} the low-energy part of a spectrum, but fails to converge when you
} integrate to infinity... (ie is wrong)... what was the approximation,
} and what was it for...?  black body radiation...?

:):)  Roy, you know too much for your own good.

(I could have sworn this was posted to SFRaves before, but I couldn't 
find it in the archives...)

I *think* it had to do with early quantum physics - they were looking
for an equation which would relate energy absorption and radiation 
with visible light.  They took down measurements and plotted graphs
and came up with one equation that appeared to work; however, the
closer it got to a certain bandwidth in the ultraviolet region the
higher energy states were created, and extrapolating they found that
one region went to infinite energy.  Thus, it was called the 
"Ultraviolet Catastrophe", cause it meant a breakdown in normal
Newtonian and classical physics and was one of the first steps towards
quantum physics.  Ovid could probably describe this much better than
I just did, as I think he was the one who came up with it in the first
place.  

	Brian

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 07:29:52 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 7:30:24 PDT
Subject: South Bay Lunch Reminder
Status: 


-- 

Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
today's SFR South Bay Lunch ...

When: Thursday  
Time: 12.00 noon
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
  Northbound: Past San Antonio Road 
  Southbound: Past University Avenue 

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Park in the first
  carpark to your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll , behind the round baseball fence.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 07:41:11 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 7:41:45 PDT
Subject: Total MOTION
Status: 


 Summary: MOTION Good!

  I arrived at the side entrance to the FX club at about 10:30PM. Paid my
$3 and walked in ... nice space , entrance brings you to the dance floor,
right past the stage and the DJ area. 

 At that time , wasn't too many people dancing - only myself and two or
three other people. Loren was spinning some nice hard stuff that I could
resist ! I must remember to catch him again. Dancefloor density picked
up around 10:50PM , so it wasn't so lonely out there.

 Unfortunetely , I had to get to work this morning , so I left at around
11:45PM . However , it was a $3 well spent ( $2 for an orange juice at
the bar - water was free at the bar too . Anyway , water was available
at the sinks in front of the restrooms. )

 Since I missed the Marx Meadow event due to a cold , it was nice to see
some of you folks again - Bob Ramstead , Pete Reiter , Zack ,  and John Lee.
If I missed greeting any of you other folks - I was the guy in the tie-dyed
tshirt. 

				See ya' at the next one!
				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 09:03:10 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 09:03:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Total MOTION
Status: 


Larry missed all of the people.  Motion had a great turn out last 
night.  Hooray, there is finally something to do on a Wednesday night 
in San Jose.  After Loren, Rick went on.  Markie was supposed to 
go on at around 12.  He didn't end up showing up close to 1.  Something 
about getting pulled over was the reason.  But he played a good set.  
They even managed to go about 10 or so minutes over 2 am. There were 
tons of people for a Wednesday night.  And this was just the first 
night.  I cannot wait until next week after people have told there 
friends what a good night it was.  I even saw some sfravers there.
Thanks to all for coming out to support San Jose's growing scene .






your San Jose Connection,



vivianm

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 09:10:55 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 09:11:20 -0700
Subject: MOTION ! :)
Status: 

So's I go to MOTION...didn't want to saty too long since I have to go to
work EARLY the next morning. Ended up closing the place with everyone else
who shouldn'ta been out dat late.

AMAZING!  First Lauren starts out with a really depp funky fucked up set. 
That shit was so phat my head began to spin!  Wicked set! Since he was the
opener not too many people were there, but by the time he closed, people
began to come to the dance floor.  Then came the hatted one, Rick Preston.
He got the place moving.  He played some familiar stuff, but he kept it
fresh by dropping plenty of fresh material.  Nad the crowd really
aprreciated it.  It was a nice crowd too.  SJ is definitely in the house
(but they always knew that!).  So Rick spins a good 2 hour set, and
everyone is asking, uh, "where's Markie?".  At about 12:30 Markie shows up.
 And to make matters even worse he tries to make up for being a little late
;).  Needles to say he brought his wrecking ball with him to finish the
demolition job Lauren & Rick started.  He brought the place down!  All of
the DJ's played excellent sets, and shit was right on.  Sound system
straigntened itself out (it did not do Lauren justice), and the night went
off well.

So now I'm late to work.  Lotsa planning to do for some upcoming events. 
Got to finish my program, got a small hangover, my week is ending up
OK....man I shouldn'ta satyed out so long...but I'm happy I did.  Or is
that Aidide?

Got a chance to talk to the famed Bob R., Larry C. was there as well
grooving to the thickness.

Hi Bob!
Hi Larry!

Well, hope to see others later this week :)

Motion was phat!

Later,
John 

================================================================
"I won't lie to the American people. I'll leave that to others!"
 - Ronald Reagan, answering a question regarding Iran-Contra.
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 09:44:37 1993
From: John Draper <crunch@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 14 Oct 1993 09:44:10 -0700
Subject: Liquid air - it might live up to its name
Status: 

   I'm curious 
i"Liquid Air" will happen if this rain continues.
At least the name will be appropriate to the ocwasi on.   Yow!!  I
have NO clothing to deal with the rain,   soif am hoping (As all
of us are)is at it willnynd before Sat night.

   For the neex few days,  Pse direct all communication to me
to my WELL address.     Tanx!!

   Also would like to have the Raves calander sent there just for
this week only.

CC

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 10:01:58 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 09:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

	To bad I just sold back my Modern Physics book :)  But does this
go along with Black Body Radiation and such theories?

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 10:17:38 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 18:18:36 BST
Subject: Re: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 



  Gioni> 	To bad I just sold back my Modern Physics book :) But
  Gioni> does this go along with Black Body Radiation and such
  Gioni> theories?

Er black body radiation isn't a theory as such... more a phenomenon.
The uv catastrophe is kind of historical in the development of
physics....  the catastrophe was that the theory of the day seemed to
work well enough for for predicting the amount of heat and light
radiated, but things started to go wrong when you got to the
unltraviolet... and the real catastrphe is that it predicted that a
body would radiate an infinte amount of energy in total!

What i can't remember is... what was the theory of the day... and what
is the correct answer.... 'fraid i've pretty much forgotten all my
physics...

	Cosmic


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 10:55:12 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 10:54:51 PDT
Subject: Re: The Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 


> I *think* it had to do with early quantum physics - they were looking
> for an equation which would relate energy absorption and radiation 
> with visible light.  They took down measurements and plotted graphs
> and came up with one equation that appeared to work; however, the
> closer it got to a certain bandwidth in the ultraviolet region the
> higher energy states were created, and extrapolating they found that
> one region went to infinite energy.  Thus, it was called the 
> "Ultraviolet Catastrophe", cause it meant a breakdown in normal
> Newtonian and classical physics and was one of the first steps towards
> quantum physics.
That's the basic idea.

> Ovid could probably describe this much better than
> I just did, as I think he was the one who came up with it in the first
> place.  
No, the name was used in 1987 by one of my college roommates, who used the name
as the title for his radio show.  He got the name out of his physics book.  We
stole the name from him.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 10:59:30 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 10:59:02 PDT
Subject: Re: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

> and the real catastrphe is that it predicted that a
> body would radiate an infinte amount of energy in total!

BTW: we are working on a new UVC single.  We are writing it so that when a DJ
plays it at a rave, every body on the dance floor will radiate an infinite
amount of energy.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 11:35:08 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 11:37:28 -0800
Subject: Re: The Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

At 10:54 AM 10/14/93 -0700, Michael Wertheim wrote:

>> Ovid could probably describe this much better than
>> I just did, as I think he was the one who came up with it in the first
>> place.  
>No, the name was used in 1987 by one of my college roommates, who used the name
>as the title for his radio show.  He got the name out of his physics book.  We
>stole the name from him.

I thought The Ultraviolet Catastrophe was when someone fell asleep in a
tanning booth.


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 12:00:09 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 11:59:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: YSH needs Space
Status: 

YOUR SISTERS HOUSE needs a space for tonight .
If you have any ideas call allen  @ ameba
750-9368

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 12:10:53 1993
From: charlesk@smtpcc.autodesk.com
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 11:30:49 PST
Subject: Re[2]: ORB screen saver
Status: 



  I'm testing to see if I've got the right way of sending an email 
  to SF Raves  (been going to the parties for almost two years; 
  never have been able to figure out how to tap into this network). 
  
  I sent this to sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
  
  Would somebody reply if they get this.
  
  Thanks


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 12:38:34 1993
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 11:55:01 PDT
Subject: Re: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Thu Oct 14 11:11:33 1993
> Return-Path: <SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
> From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 18:18:36 BST
> To: pasque@ucdavis.edu
> Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
> Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Content-Length: 762
> 
> 
> 
>   Gioni> 	To bad I just sold back my Modern Physics book :) But
>   Gioni> does this go along with Black Body Radiation and such
>   Gioni> theories?
> 
> Er black body radiation isn't a theory as such... more a phenomenon.
> The uv catastrophe is kind of historical in the development of
> physics....  the catastrophe was that the theory of the day seemed to
> work well enough for for predicting the amount of heat and light
> radiated, but things started to go wrong when you got to the
> unltraviolet... and the real catastrphe is that it predicted that a
> body would radiate an infinte amount of energy in total!
> 
> What i can't remember is... what was the theory of the day... and what
> is the correct answer.... 'fraid i've pretty much forgotten all my
> physics...
> 
> 	Cosmic
> 
> 


To take it a step further...

Since theoretically it takes an infinite amount of energy to accellerate a body
to light speed, maybe the UV catastrophe is our ticket to light speed travel. Now
if we can just come up with a way synthesize this UVC in something small enough
to fit in a space ship and then to somehow harness this energy and redirect it to
do our bidding.

Should be simple enough, we get the Brits and Americans to work out the theories,
we get the Germans to solve the engineering problems and we get the Japs to
develope it into a product.

Then we allow the Russians to steal the plans, make one first, and try it out.

Look out Star Trek, sfravers will be the first ones to Cygnus, wow talk about
getting spaced man.....

John T.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 13:01:50 1993
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993   13:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: The Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

In-Reply-To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu -- 10/14/93 06:09

hi folx!
well, the way it worked is something like this: at the end of the 19th
century, physicists were studying the emission spectrum from black bodies ,
bodies emitting radiation at all wavelengths. the classical picture
of atoms predicted that the intensity of this radiation was propostional
to the wave length to the inverse fourth power. thus at ultraviolet
wavelengths ( i.e. small, smaller than 400 nm) the intensity would go to infty!
well, the data clearly did not support this. also, the total emitted energy
was the integrated intensity over the full wavelength sectrum. the classical
form gave an infinite total energy, also wrong. the problem seem to come
from a rather innocous assumption: em energy is emitted and absorbed
continuously. max planck was able to solve this problem by assuming that em
radiation is emitted and absorbed in small packets, quanta. this  changed
the intensity spectrum so that it did not blow-up anymore at uv wavelengths.
it also gave a finite total energy, as it should have. this was the birth
of quantum mechanics.
 take care/shalom/back from croatan
ovid

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 13:47:24 1993
From: noah@Cadence.COM (Noah Ruiz)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:39:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Re[2]: ORB screen saver
Status: 

Got it! =)
Have a nice day. =)

noah@cadence.com

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 14:00:54 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:02:12 PDT
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
Status: 



I have one recommendation this weekend - "Your Sisters' Liquid Orb 
Air Boogie Buffet House" - this weekend should be one long party!  :)   

Catch SFR DJs Laura and Tamara's triumphant return to the Bay Area,
Laura tonight at Your Sisters' House and both (as well as our other 
great DJs) at Liquid Air on Saturday night.  Friday night's Orb 
performance promises to be a aural and visual extravaganza.

If that's not enough for you, the New Moon party tonight has potential
as an after-party for YSH, and Saturday night has plenty of choices
(if you just can't stay in one place :)...so no sleeping till Sunday
afternoon!


*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     	    Updated: 10.14.93
*****************************************************************************

Thursday, October 14th - New Moon Party - at the Moonraker, Pacifica.
	will move outdoors w/Ernie Munson afterhours
	call (415)-435-8735 for directions

Friday, October 15th - Orb: an ambient experience
	DJs Buck, Markie !), Dutch, Ernie Munson, Alex Paterson (of the Orb),
		Lewis (London), Reese (NYC).
	Technorganic visuals by Craig Larson, Pure, Synergy :)
	earth-base performance: space-time continuum, future kulture, hawke
	at the Warfield, 982 Market, SF.  10pm-4am.  Open to all ages.
	tix $20 at Ameba, tweekin', Rough Trade, bpm; primal (berkeley);
	makoto (sacramento); upstairs (san jose). (also Bass if you pay more).
	415.974.6726	916.484.4110	510.464.4670	408.236.3731

Saturday, October 16th - Liquid Air 
	DJs Tamara, Laura, Jon D., Cris, Lee
	Audio by Sound Vision
	info: 415.487.8497	

Saturday, October 16th - Passage
	Noel  Ghost  Dave Alga  Dolphi  Rob  Ted
	510-505-8841

Saturday, October 16th - It's A Small World
  	Richie (UK), Carlos, Ghost, Dutch, Spinner, Frank Nitty
  	415/245-5066, 510/716-2688, 408/488-RUEN

Saturday, October 16th - Revival
	Join us for the revival of the psychedelic groove
	Jeno  Spun  Tony  Doran  Markie Mark  
	510.287.8778

Saturday, October 16th - Diverse City
	Jon Williams  La Paix + guests
	415-469-2027

Saturday, October 16th - Rio Rave
	Carlos  Pete Avila  D.R.C.
	wear a brazilian dance costume and get in free
	Concourse Pavilion, 7th & Brannan, SF.
	$15; $10 w/store flyer; $5 w/3 scavenger list items
	9pm-2am, 18+.	1-800-RU4-LOVE (1-800-784-5683)

Friday, October 22nd - Tesla
	Sound can penetrate any substance, move molecules and rearrange
		realities.
	SpaceTime Continuum  O.S.T.  Shobhan  P.M.T.
	10pm-6am, 415.267.5930

Saturday, October 23rd - Basics
	An unexpected smile, a spirit awakened, a life transformed
	Tony  Doran  Josh  Spun  Jeno  Jon Williams
	415-905-9629

Saturday, October 23rd - The Cat in the Hat 
	Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
	$10 before 11.
	415.995.4646	510.464.3008	408.236.2211

Saturday, October 23rd - benefit for the Coalition on Homelessness
	presented by YSH, TAZ & Aurgasm

Monday, October 25th - Vision of the Void
	techno/"bladerunner" music
	10pm, The Top, 424 Haight @ Fillmore

Thursday, October 28th - Surface Magazine Monster Masquerade Ball
	Jan Cooley, Neon Leon, Aaron O. spinning
	DV8, 540 Howard.  doors at 10pm, $7 w/invite.

Saturday, October 30th - The Finale of Funky Tekno Tribe
  	Doran, Simon, Garth, Graeme, Tony, Spun, Thomas, Jeno, DJ Dan
  	415/266-8215

Saturday, October 30th - 111 Minna party
	8pm - live jazz and art; 9pm mad scientist dungeon.
	Ernie Munson & others.  18+.  415.974.1719

Saturday, October 30th or Sunday, October 31st - Casper (rumored)

Saturday, November 13th - Wicked - 415.512.5713
	(also might have some smaller Friday night events this month)

Saturday, November 13th - Circa '93 w/Orbital, Aphex Twin and Moby (in SoCal)
	email circa@netcom.com for info. :)

Sunday, November 14th - NASA See the Light tour w/Orbital, Aphex Twin, Moby
	Galleria, SF (more details to follow)

Saturday, November 20th - Come Together

Penelope's Web 2 - at the same location as the first, more details to follow...
	415-765-7671

Tribal Funk - 415.756.1531 - details to follow

Come/Unity - coming in November, watch for details...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other goodwill 
	thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by flyers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their appropriateness 
in being on the list, let me know.  Also let me know when any of them stop...

---Thursday------------------------------------------------------------------

SFR South Bay Lunch - noon at Greer Park in Palo Alto.  
	e-mail larryc@netcom.com for directions.
YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-765-7670
	[10/14 - Laura!, Rebecca, Tara, Dani]
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - Rick Preston, others
Universal Groove - Carlos, Ghost, Dutch, Dave Alga
	Thunder Bay, Berk.  9pm-5am, $5.  415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax - Acid Jazz w/Harry Who (San Jose)
Eclipse - 2520 Camino Diablo, Walnut Creek. open till 4, 18+
Delusions of Grandeur - Jon Williams, Robbie & Scott Hardkiss.	Ambience 
	by SpaceTime Continuum.  Visuals by Synergy.  10pm - 6am, 1015 Folsom. 
Housing Project - DJs Jeno & Josh. 9-330am @ the EndUp, 401 6th @ harrison 21+

---Friday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Mission Rock - guest DJs on patio, Alex & Kevin downstairs 
	817 China Basin - $5 - 21+
	[10/15 - Gavan]
	[10/22 - Neon Leon]
	[10/29 - Jon Williams]
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
Corduroy City - $5 - 11-6am - 415.974.9715
Dig! - Cleo's Cafe @ Haight & Pierce. Acid Jazz & deep house.
	6pm-?, no cover, all ages.
Hell's Kitchen - DJs Digit & Bobby T - 21+, $2 b4 11, $5 after.  375 1st St.

---Saturday------------------------------------------------------------------

Lost It - Steve Mitchel, Dutch, Richie, La Paix - 2am-noon - $5 - DNA Lounge
Housing Project - 6am-2pm - DJ Dani & guests - End Up 401 6th @ Harrison, 21+ 
	[might be nighttime now -dc]
Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - 4pm-8pm - cleo's, 698 Haight  415.487.6246
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762
Rhythm - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, Markie - 177 Townsend - 21+ - 415-281-3344
Diverse City - Jon Williams, La Paix, guests - $5 b4/11 - 415-469-2027
Energy - Doc Martin, Josh, Ghost, Willy Wonka, Jeno - 415-995-4787
The Fridge - on hold - 415-487-6305
Aurgasm - on hold - collective T.A.Z. - 415.974.9363

---Sunday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 6am-2pm - 415-979-8845
EndUp from 6am - 6th & Harrison
Cleo's Cafe - Haight & Pierce - informal YSH gathering - 2pm-8pm - free!
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Spundae - various guest DJs - 9pm-5am, 21+, $5 b4 12 - 55 Natoma  
Drift - the ambient club - spike's, 8th & Minna, 10 till 2 am
Tranceformation - 201 9th @ Howard - $3, 21+ - 415-267-6189
Punch Drunk - Cal's, 2001 Union St @ Buchanan - 6pm - 415-776-7036
Sunday Joy - 8th & Kirkham (in the Sunset) - 2pm-7pm - $2
Deep Forest - Carlos, Dutch, & Guests - 7am-? - 18+ - $3 - 415.679.8070
Flapjacks - by Curious George - 18+, 6am-3pm, $4 incl. pancakes. 510-505-8841

---Monday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pepper.  Deep House. 668 Haight (Don's Diff Dux), 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 415.435.8627
	[10/18 - Ernie & Shakra]
Mushroom Jazz - acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is, Alex, Kevin
	$3, 9pm-3am.  Club Oasis, 278 11th St, 21+. 415-905-8811
Depth Chamber - temporarily on hold - 9-2am, 21+, (415)241-1560
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@Montgomery) in San Jose.

---Tuesday-------------------------------------------------------------------

Together - Simon, Garth, guests - Big Heart City (339 Jessie) 415-979-8825
Jus' Pucker - House, Funk, Disco - the Bird Cage, 4822 Telegraph. 9pm-2am, 21+.

---Wednesday-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mystery School - 21+, 11pm - sunrise.  415-337-4905
Tilt - nadeeah, jan cooley, aaron o., david harness, dani, larry reed.
	11pm-5am, 21+.  540 Howard (DV8).  415.957.1730	
Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X)  408.236.3787
	[10/20 - Loren, Harry Who?, Tony]
	[10/27 - Tamotsu, Rick Preston, Spun]
Java - 2730 Harrison @ 16th - 415.905.6443

---Connection 2 Tapes--------------------------------------------------------
4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house from SFR's party in March
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr 
contact Bob Ramstad (boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com) 
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund 

---RADIO SHOWS---------------------------------------------------------------
Friday night - midnite-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
        (mixing from 12-1, other tasty electreats from 1-3:30am)
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
	[10/19 - Tony, tix for Funky Tekno Tribe and Basics]
Tuesdays 7:30-10:00pm - Pete Gracious, KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351 and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe/uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

(type 'u' in place of the '*' - i've taken out the 'u' so this message
 passes thru majordomo's filter)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 14:10:43 1993
From: standish@lowone.mfg.sgi.com (Michael Standish)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 14:13:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

John T writes:
>Should be simple enough, we get the Brits and Americans to work out the
>theories,
>we get the Germans to solve the engineering problems and we get the Japs to
>develope it into a product.
>
>Then we allow the Russians to steal the plans, make one first, and try it out.

Ouch that hurts. I hate to sound like a tree hugging censor but could we
please take the gross generalinzations and racial slurs somwhere else.
Peace&Love
Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@lowone.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S





From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 16:07:53 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dat ing the orb
Status: 

is anyone bootlegging the orb??? 

now for susie's quick guide into sneaking in a dat into the warfield.. 

have you ever wondered how to bypass all those cute little yellow jacketed
bgp people???  ------------------ MATERIALS NEEDED----------------------

1. (perferably) a dat                                                   
2. a purse/bag that will hold it (to be used in step 2)
3. masking tape
4. a charismatic smile
5. a part of your body you wish to be exagerated
6. some "phat" (ie large fluffy clothing) 
step 1 attaching it to your body
 
find a suitable and unobtrusive part of your body to enhance...(your inner
thighs, breasts, whatever) and tape your dat in it...(i have found that
women wearing long skirts and taping the dat to ones inner thigh does the
trick best because bgp is scared of lawsuits of molestation) normally bgp
people touch just your sides, but lately (at other concert venues) they
have gotten a bit more adventurous...
 
once inside (if you are not successfull beg for your equiptment back by
telling them you had just come from work and "forgot" to put your
"walkman" in your car... 
  
go to the bathroom and put the dat in the purse and the mic (preferably
small but high quality) hanging unobtrusivly out side of the purse (also
get away from the chatty neighbors, the sing alongers, and the screamers)
(another helpful hint...try and position yourself in a good place to get
the best quality recording)
 
and if anyone per chance does get a nice (or not nice) recording of the
orb...i would be so ever grateful for a copy...partyon...susie (:



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 16:29:08 1993
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:47:15 PDT
Subject: Re: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Thu Oct 14 15:42:04 1993
> Return-Path: <SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
> From: standish@lowone.mfg.sgi.com (Michael Standish)
> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 14:13:07 -0700
> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.0 10/1/92)
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
> Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Content-Length: 516
> 
> John T writes:
> >Should be simple enough, we get the Brits and Americans to work out the
> >theories,
> >we get the Germans to solve the engineering problems and we get the Japs to
> >develope it into a product.
> >
> >Then we allow the Russians to steal the plans, make one first, and try it out.
> 
> Ouch that hurts. I hate to sound like a tree hugging censor but could we
> please take the gross generalinzations and racial slurs somwhere else.
> Peace&Love
> Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@lowone.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

What racial slurs? Since when is the shortening of a name a racial slur? Sorry
I'm just not that retentive to think that contractions are slurs but I
guess if someone is intent on seeing sunflowers in a sea of daffodils they'll
see sunflowers. So be it.

John T.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 16:48:19 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:28:37 PDT
Subject: Re: Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Status: 

>Ouch that hurts. I hate to sound like a tree hugging censor but could we
>please take the gross generalinzations and racial slurs somwhere else.

Awwww, come on.  There something to be said for generalizations, there usualy
based on truth but should never be relied on and as for racial slurs, I didn't
see any in that message, unless you mean Japs, which is sometimes said or
taken in a derogatory/racial way but in this case obviously denotes a race  in
the same way Brits was used in the same sentence.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 16:50:02 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:50:36 PDT
Subject: pre-orb @ Lu Tan's
Status: 

	I'm up for going to Lu Tan's tomorrow night. Could someone
post where it was again? I think that 7:00 would be a good time, so as
of now I'm planning on being there then.
	Mail me if you're planning on going... it might be wise to
call in advance with a warning. (reservation/etc.)
	(A phone number, if you know it, would be nice.)

Peace, and the orb,
-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 17:54:37 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:55:50 PDT
Subject: Planet 6 boom box party Saturday
Status: 


Hi All!

Someone from Planet 6/TAZ called me to tell me that on Saturday,
in the evening, they're organizing a boom-box party - (like we've
discussed before - they have an FM-transmitter).

It'll be somewhere in SF; call 415-SOL-S666 (765-7666) Saturday afternoon
for more info.

-Derek

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 17:58:59 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Ben Wing)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:56:22 -0700
Subject: that's "Tu Lan"
Status: 

In article <9310142350.AA13916@netcom.netcom.com> you write:
|	I'm up for going to Lu Tan's tomorrow night. Could someone
|post where it was again? I think that 7:00 would be a good time, so as
|of now I'm planning on being there then.
|	Mail me if you're planning on going... it might be wise to
|call in advance with a warning. (reservation/etc.)
|	(A phone number, if you know it, would be nice.)

"Lu Tan's" ...  Hee hee hee ... :)  Tu Lan is located at 8 6th St.,
which is at the intersection of Market and 6th.  If you're approaching
from Market (a VERY good thing to do, since that particular stretch
of 6th St. is one of the absolute worst areas of town) it's on the
right at the very beginning of 6th.

This is definitely not a reservation-type place.  Just walk right in,
and if there are too many people they can always move us upstairs.

7:00 might be a bit early?

ben

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 18:17:54 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 20:17:57 -0500
Subject: my 1200 broke :^(
Status: 


My 1200 broke today......I am very very very sad - what happened is the top  
part of the power switch (the blakc thing that twists!) became unattached  
whilst turning it on....

Does anyone know how to fix it - or of some kind of kludge so I can get the  
thing
running again?!?  It would be much appericated! (since I am to mechanically  
uninclined to fix it myself after hours of futzing with the damnable thing.)

Thanks,

--Kurt

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 18:27:32 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 18:26:40 PDT
Subject: no YSH tonight :-(
Status: 


Just called the hotline number 765-7670 and it sez that there'll be no
YSH tonight (but they are working on a solid space for the indefinite
near future and that looks good).  They suggest people go to tne New
Moon Party.

Total abject bummer.

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 19:42:47 1993
From: geoffw@gaia.internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 19:37:39 PDT
Subject: Re: that's "Tu Lan"
Status: 

> 
> "Lu Tan's" ...  Hee hee hee ... :)  Tu Lan is located at 8 6th St.,
> which is at the intersection of Market and 6th.  If you're approaching
> from Market (a VERY good thing to do, since that particular stretch
> of 6th St. is one of the absolute worst areas of town) it's on the
> right at the very beginning of 6th.


Just act like a drunk or a junkie and no-one will bother you :)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 21:07:35 1993
From: Lara Marie Kueppers <kueppers@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 21:07:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: new moon party
Status: 

I was wondering if anyone out there might have more specific information on 
the new moon party.  I called the Your Sisters' House hotline and the word
was that they aren't happening this week.  However, they recommended the New
Moon Party, which they said is taking place on beach near Pacifica. Not quite
enough detail to assuage my uncertainty about being able to find this thing.
So, if anyone could divulge some geographic data (and temporal), I'd appreciate
it.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 21:44:52 1993
From: Rishad J. Quazi <rquazi@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 0:44:39 EDT
Subject: my 1200 broke :^( (fwd)
Status: 

>My 1200 broke today......I am very very very sad - what happened is the top  
>part of the power switch (the blakc thing that twists!) became unattached  
>whilst turning it on....
>
>--Kurt

Try an alligator clip attached to the power on spindle? I've never seen a
1200 up close, so i am just guessing that this might work :)

good luck,

        O         ~    ~
         o    ~        ~               ~
          .   _/,_        ~         ~      ~
           . /o...\__//        FiSH ~ Rishad J. Quazi
             \_'__/``\`      rquazi@csws1.ic.sunysb.edu
        ~      \`          RQUAZI@SBCCVM.BITNET
           ~          .     ~    ~               ~  ~
           \/  .  .     .   \ \/        .      .
        ____\____._..___.____\/_______._

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 22:33:51 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 22:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: orb carpool
Status: 

Well is there anyone who wants to carpool to Lu Tan's and the Orb? 



Cindy

-- 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 14 22:52:57 1993
From: bbraasch@netcom.com (Bill Braasch)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 22:53:28 -0700
Subject: Re:  new moon party
Status: 

here's the number from the rave acalendar...

Thursday, October 14th - New Moon Party - at the Moonraker, Pacifica.
        will move outdoors w/Ernie Munson afterhours
        call (415)-435-8735 for directions

bill

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 00:48:28 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 0:48:56 PDT
Subject: Re: that's "Tu Lan"
Status: 

Ben Wing said:
> 
> 7:00 might be a bit early?
> 
	THanks for the info.
	I was thinking 7:00 because the nature of large dinners is
that they take a long time, and it might be a good idea to get to the
warfield well before 10 so that we aren't the last ones in, having to
scrounge for a good space to listen/dance/whatever.


-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 02:15:16 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 02:15:06 -0700
Subject: Re: dat ing the orb
Status: 

	i would dat the show if sony did not release really 
	shitty consumer first generation technology to try
	and beat everyone else to it.  my datman batterey
	has never really functioned well.  poo.

caliban


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 02:16:32 1993
From: spaceman@cats.ucsc.edu (illuminated iconoclast)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 02:16:25 -0700
Subject: Re: that's "Tu Lan"
Status: 

	seven is way early.  my ticket sez it is a ten pm
	show.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 08:29:42 1993
From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 09:21:23 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Orb When? (was: that's "Tu Lan")
Status: 


> ... and it might be a good idea to get to the
> warfield well before 10 so that we aren't the last ones in, having to
> scrounge for a good space to listen/dance/whatever.

Hmmmm...  Does anybody know what a sell out crowd at the Warfield is like?
I really don't think it will be a problem, though.   This is the Orb, not
Megadeath.  :)  I suspect more than a few people will be content to just 
chill a bit, eh?

Although I've never been to an Orb show, I suspect they won't really start
until after midnight w/ DJ's filling in before and after (and in between and
through. :)  This is the way the Shamen/Utah Saints happened at the Warfield.
Anybody know for sure?  Or where the afterparty is?  Markie?


-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-
              Activate the rythym that has always been within.
                    Shamanic, artistic, archaic revival.
-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 09:14:10 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 09:11:54 PDT
Subject: Re: Orb When? (was: that's "Tu Lan")
Status: 


> Hmmmm...  Does anybody know what a sell out crowd at the Warfield is like?

Has it sold out?  

> I really don't think it will be a problem, though.   This is the Orb, not
> Megadeath.  :)  I suspect more than a few people will be content to just 
> chill a bit, eh?

Hopefully.  But my guess is that the large percentage of curiosity seekers,
the 2-drink minimum, and the venue will detract somewhat from the kind of
atmosphere most appropriate (IMO) for this show.  But who knows? 

- leg of eel

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 09:37:50 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 09:38:11 -0700
Subject: YSH cancelled - New Moon party happened partially
Status: 

  As you all might have guessed,  YSH was cancelled but the info line
referred all callers to Pacifica.   So I headed over there for the 
New Moon party,  and got in at least 1 1/2 hours of dancing before
the Kokomo club closed.   Naturally,  the rain cancelled the beach
part of it.

  Please consider this as rumour...   But it looks like the Kokomo
club managers has invited the New Moon people back to appear every
thursday to dance,  and they would be allowing 18+ folks to
attend at least until 3:30 am.    The venue is pretty nice,  although
rather small,   but the beach is directly behind the club.  Now here is
the really good news.   Because it's in Pacifica,  the Kokomo club
will be offering 3 shuttles to move people there from the SF area,
but don't know if they plan on shuttling people back again.

  When talking to Erik,  the dude who organizes the New Moon party,
I told him to contact me if this is firm so I can get it out to
SFR group.    Lets keep our fingers crossed,  and hope the Sisters
find a place soon.   I miss the YSH gatherings,  as these are the
only places I can contact all my homeless friends.

Cheers
CC

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 10:36:42 1993
From: David Trumbull <dit@panix.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 13:36:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: here I am right?
Status: 

Superhigh has made his way back to the internet, finally! Hello old
friends I just wanted to let people who care know my new internet address:
dit@panix.com
I made it safely to new york, and after a few months of hard times I got a
job at Philip Morris, your friendly Tobacco mega corporation. Just call me
sell out hahah! Anyway, whats up to all of my friends back home I miss you
all and that there vibe thing you got.... It is definitely not the same here
My new snail address is:
166 First Avenue #4
NY, NY 10009
smackdab in the east village. Sorry to make you read this if you have no
clue who I am. Saw Jeno in Long Island and he brought me home for a few
glorious hours
much love
superhigh!

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 11:07:55 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 11:07:20 PDT
Subject: Orb When? (was: that's "Tu Lan")
Status: 


ahem.  as a veteran of many many many Warfield shows, the 2 drink
minimum is generally enforced only at the tables in the lower level,
and that's only if your entire group is not ordering stuff (as long as
some of you are occasionally ordering drinks, you won't have a
problem).  they don't have nearly enough waitresses to go around and
hassle everyone.  also, normally during set break / between bands is
primetime for the waitresses, and there won't be any.  (if you do buy
something, please tip well, I have friends eking out a living there,
thanks.)

it'll be interesting to hear how the venue works out.  if enough
people take drugs and hang out in the balcony to avoid the
(inevitably) overcrowded floor, it could work out quite nicely.  my
guess is also that the curiosity seekers will be overwhelmed by all
the freaks :-)

(fyi, I won't be there, staying home and saving $20, I've got traffic
school tomorrow at 8 am for a ticket I got coming back from YSH a few
months ago...)

yow, and enjoy yourselves,
Bob


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 11:42:46 1993
From: wicked@netcom.com
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 11:26:13 PDT
Subject: Re: Orb When? (was: that's "Tu Lan")
Status: 

> Although I've never been to an Orb show, I suspect they won't really start
> until after midnight w/ DJ's filling in before and after (and in between and
> through. :)  This is the way the Shamen/Utah Saints happened at the Warfield.
> Anybody know for sure?  Or where the afterparty is?  Markie?
> 
> 

	Well from what I can gather friday looks something like this:


		10:00 - 11:00  Buck / Dutch
		
		11:00 - 12:00  Markie

		12:00 - 02:00  The Orb

		02:00 - 03:00  Lewis (The Orb D.J.)

		03:00 - 04:00  Buck / Dutch


	This all goes on in the main room. There is a sound system in the
foyer which Ernie and the rest of the line-up will be playing on. 


	See you tonight,
			Markie  !)



-- 

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 12:22:26 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 12:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dinner count
Status: 

I know at least 7 people are going to the pre-dinner thing. How many 
people are exactly coming so we know if we can put tables together, etc. 
And what time are we meeting again?

c

ps rob- I have to save $ on phone calls:). Too many long distance calls 
to you know where. So call me about carpooling. Knowing you, I will 
expect you late. :) Susie, I will call you (local call). 

-- 


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 14:22:29 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 14:22:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AMEBA sold all orb tickets
Status: 

there will be tickets at the door
box opens at 8:00 show at 10:00
salutations
allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 14:58:26 1993
From: gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 14:56:41 PDT
Subject: Warfield security policy
Status: 


	Anybody know what the Warfield policy is towards backpacks, 
water bottles, etc?
						gregg


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 15:10:02 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 15:09:53 PDT
Subject: Warfield security policy
Status: 


Not sure what other people will say, but the Warfield policy has been
generally mellow but sometimes wildly inconsistent in regards to food
and beverages / water.  I've seen guards allow people to bring in
cookies / fruit / sandwiches / water and I've seen guards not allow
sealed bottles of water in (but rarely).

A reasonable sized pack with clothes / books / random stuff should be
no problem.  They sell food and drinks and therefore sometimes enforce
no food / drinks.  Definitely no glass or cans.

also no cameras, or DAT recorders, or videocameras :-)

(I think they still have their 'no lasers' sign, too)

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 15:50:21 1993
From: Peter Werner <boe666@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 15:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: fwd from nm-list re raves vs. industrial (etc).
Status: 


Recently a thread that I was involved with on nm-list was forwarded 
here.  Unfortunately, no provision was made about x-posting replies back 
to nm-list, so I never got to see many of the replies to my post.  
Anyway, if this thread is still alive, be so kind as to Cc: 
nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu or boe666@u.washington.edu when replying to this 
thread.

Thanks,
 Beast of Eden
 boe666@u.washington.edu

PS: A few replies were forwarded, so I'll reply to them in my next post.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 15:57:53 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 15:59:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dinner
Status: 

So far we have a 10+ group going via reply from email. We are meeting at 
Wu-Tan's on Market nr. 7th??? I am just double checking. At we will meet 
at 7.

Cindy

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 16:19:38 1993
From: tweekin@netcom.com (Richard Balcon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 16:20:04 -0700
Subject: Mission Rock
Status: 

cc: Tweekin@netcom.com

MISSION ROCK 15 OCTOBER

Taj & Gavan
10pm-late..only funkin' $5
NEXT WEEK

NEON LEON,GAVAN,JAMES
D'stairs:
ALEX & KEVIN


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 16:44:30 1993
From: ferryman@sfu.ca
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 16:44:23 PDT
Subject: Off the list
Status: 

Sorry, but could you please take me off the list.  Thanks


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 16:50:17 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 16:50:20 PDT
Subject: Re: dinner count
Status: 

Sea Of Sin said:
> 
> I know at least 7 people are going to the pre-dinner thing. How many 
> people are exactly coming so we know if we can put tables together, etc. 
> And what time are we meeting again?
> 
> c
> 
	I'm going to try to reach Tu Lan around 7, with one other. If
there's none around at 7, we'll probably hang 'round Market street for
a bit, and then return 'round 7:30.

-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 16:55:09 1993
From: John Turpin <turpin@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 16:55:05 -0700
Subject: Alex Paterson Interview
Status: 


There is an article in today's Chronicle about Alex Paterson
and The Orb's show tonight.

Woops - the title of the article reads:

"The Orb's Mystical Techno-Trance:
 Sound wizard Alan Paterson's group will headline at all-night Warfield rave"
              ^^^^

The caption of the picture reads:

"Alan Paterson's group, the Orb, will provide the ambient music at tonight's
 rave at the Warfield"

Hope this doesn't piss him off -

See ya tonight

johnny t


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 17:42:34 1993
From: Peter Werner <boe666@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 17:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rave Doubts
Status: 


Roy Badami (roy@harlequin.co.uk) writes:

>>   For example, Sven Vath's Accident In Paradise is a great piece, but how
>>   widely embraced has it been by ravers?  Not much;
>>   "Can't dance to it, man."
>
>  Laura> Well, I don't know where this person has been, but "Accident
>  Laura> in Paradise" was really HUGE in the New York/New England area
>  Laura> about a year ago.  You'd hear it at every party, rave, or
>  Laura> in Paradise" was really HUGE in the New York/New England area
>  Laura> about a year ago.  You'd hear it at every party, rave, or
>  Laura> techno club night, and the crowd always went crazy.  It was
>  Laura> as big as Hardfloor's "Acsperience" was (before "Acsperience"
>  Laura> came out).  How can you not dance to a 4/4 time track with an
>  Laura> absolutely killer bass line?
>
>
>Hmm... I wonder if he was talking about the album (as a whole).  Most
>of the album is rather too ambient to spin anywhere except the
>chillout room, (unless perhaps you mix something on top of it).

I definitely was talking about the ambient tracks.  What I've heard at 
our local (Seattle) ambient noise club (Seven Beats Per Minute) was 
outstanding. Do any ravers listen to this stuff?  If not, I'll stand by 
my point about the rave scene holding back the creative potential of 
techno music.

Laura La Gassa (laura@soda.berkeley.edu) also says:

>(ravers are) people who are open-minded about exploring many forms of 
>dance music

But are they open to *non*-dance music?  Music is more than just 
something to dance to; good music stands on its own whether you can dance 
to it or not.  This "tyranny of the beat" is exactly what I'm pointing out 
when I say the rave scene holds back creative potential.

Andy Nourse (andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com) writes:

>>   I suppose its just a subculture thing.  Industrial is a post-punk
>>   thing and rave is a sort of return to hippie values.
>
>    What are "post-punk" values? 

Did I say anything about post-punk values?  What I mean is that punk had
a healthy cynicism toward the most cherished hippie illusions (peace, 
love, harmony, ad nauseum).  That scepticism has been carried into 
post-punk genres such as industrial.  Now the rave scene has resurrected 
the old hippie rhetoric, engendering "attitude" (whatever the hell that 
means) on the part of those of us who are too jaded for all that.  

(BTW, did you read the part of my post where I said I was being somewhat 
flippant about the whole "never trust a hippie" thing.)

>>   in a society which uses psychotherapy and "self-help" as tools of social
>>   control and brands any act of rebellion as "negative", of course I'm
>>   going to be damn suspicious of anybody telling me to be more "positive".
>
>    I wouldn't dream of telling you that.  But for me, being negative
>    all the time got really depressing, and wallowing in negativity was
>    disempowering and generally got in the way.  

Did you read my whole statement or was it just not posted?  My next 
sentence was:

>>That doesn't mean I necessarily embrace negativity for its own sake (a
>>la Boyd Rice) either.

>    I would justify it on the grounds that that obviously was they way 
>    things were, and that I was just being realistic about it all.  The 
>    problem was that it made it very difficult to visualize how it might 
>    look if it were better, which is a precondition to making it *be* 
>    better.

A problem with idealism is that it sets you up for disappointment when, 
as happens quite often, things don't go as well as expected.  A worse 
problem is that idealism often leads to its nasty flipside, fanaticism.  
Study the history of any revolution, ideology, or religion and you'll 
see this "Jacobin" dynamic.

Beast of Eden

(Cc replies to nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu)




From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 17:57:26 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 17:55:31 PDT
Subject: Rave Doubts
Status: 

Peter Werner writes:

>I definitely was talking about the ambient tracks.  What I've heard at 
>our local (Seattle) ambient noise club (Seven Beats Per Minute) was 
>outstanding. Do any ravers listen to this stuff?  If not, I'll stand by 
>my point about the rave scene holding back the creative potential of 
>techno music.

i rave.  i own "accident in paradise."  i listen to the non-dance
tracks.  retract your statement.

>But are they open to *non*-dance music?  Music is more than just 
>something to dance to; good music stands on its own whether you can dance 
>to it or not.  This "tyranny of the beat" is exactly what I'm pointing out 
>when I say the rave scene holds back creative potential.

the claim that listening to *any* form of music "holds back creative
potential" is ridiculous.  where do you get off saying something like
that?

>Did I say anything about post-punk values?  What I mean is that punk had
>a healthy cynicism toward the most cherished hippie illusions (peace, 
>love, harmony, ad nauseum).  That scepticism has been carried into 
>post-punk genres such as industrial.  Now the rave scene has resurrected 
>the old hippie rhetoric, engendering "attitude" (whatever the hell that 
>means) on the part of those of us who are too jaded for all that.  

believe it or not, some of us rave and some of us are still skeptical.
however, at a really good rave, for a short time, even my hardened
skepticism melts before an incredible onslaught of positivity.  if you
think there's something wrong with being positive - even temporariliy
- then that's your problem.

>A problem with idealism is that it sets you up for disappointment when, 
>as happens quite often, things don't go as well as expected.  A worse 
>problem is that idealism often leads to its nasty flipside, fanaticism.  

yeah yeah yeah, life sucks, nothing lasts, nasty brutish and short, i
got it all.  believe me, i'm pretty pessimistic 99% of the time.  it's
just that every once in a while i can let go of it.  i think most
ravers are pretty well adjusted that way, when it comes to attitude.

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 17:58:52 1993
From: wicked@netcom.com
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 17:59:17 PDT
Subject: Test
Status: 

	The time is 6:00pm

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 20:32:40 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 16:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: More from the California Aggie
Status: 


	This one made me laugh out loud:
Disorderly Conduct
	At approximately 6:40 p.m. Wednesday, a male juvenile was found
face down on the sidewalk and lawn area near the 600 block of A street. 
The juvenile exposed himself to the reporting party and was found eating
dirt and lawn upon officer's arrival.  Admitting to be being under the
influence of LSD, he was unable to care for himself and was taken into
custody and transported to Sutter Davis Hospital for treatment.  The Davis
Police Department picked up the suspects mother and took her to the
hospital, where she took custody of her son.  The case has been forwarded
to Zane Probation Detention Center and a copy has been sent to the
Department of Youth Services.

Poor kid, talk about a BAD trip!

Y' all have a good time at the ORB show tonite and I'll see ya tomorow at
Liquid Air!

 Peace,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 20:47:10 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 14:30:38 PDT
Subject: Re:  YSH cancelled - New Moon party happened partially
Status: 



Hey,

What about the place near 24th-25th and Illinois where they had YSH
several weeks back?  That place seemed to work well, and to my knowledge
the party didn't get popped (at least by the time I left at around 3 AM)

Lat,

*


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 15 20:47:28 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 14:21:53 PDT
Subject: Re:  Orb When? (was: that's "Tu Lan")
Status: 


Although I've never been to an Orb show, I suspect they won't really start
until after midnight w/ DJ's filling in before and after (and in between and
through. :)  This is the way the Shamen/Utah Saints happened at the Warfield.
Anybody know for sure?  Or where the afterparty is?  Markie?
-----------------

Brian, if you find out where the after-party is, would you give me a ring?
Due to lack of capital funds, I won't be attending the show (I have my
*own* record to put out and manufacturing is expensive!),  But would love
to check out the afterparty... or anyone else that finds out, please give
me a call.  Thanks, here's the digits: (I won't get email after 4 PM...)


(415) 771-7017 (h)
(415) 940-2263 (w)
(415) 719-5750 (page)

Lat,

*



From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 00:40:33 1993
From: Peter Werner <boe666@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 00:28:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 



On Fri, 15 Oct 1993, Jon Drukman wrote:

> Peter Werner writes:
> 
> >I definitely was talking about the ambient tracks.  What I've heard at 
> >our local (Seattle) ambient noise club (Seven Beats Per Minute) was 
> >outstanding. Do any ravers listen to this stuff?  If not, I'll stand by 
> >my point about the rave scene holding back the creative potential of 
> >techno music.
> 
> i rave.  i own "accident in paradise."  i listen to the non-dance
> tracks.  retract your statement.

OK, I'll retract it *in your case* (still need to see if this support is 
more general).
 
> >But are they open to *non*-dance music?  Music is more than just 
> >something to dance to; good music stands on its own whether you can dance 
> >to it or not.  This "tyranny of the beat" is exactly what I'm pointing out 
> >when I say the rave scene holds back creative potential.
> 
> the claim that listening to *any* form of music "holds back creative
> potential" is ridiculous.  where do you get off saying something like
> that?

Did you even read what I said before you responded?  Where do I claim that 
listening to a form of music holds back creativity?  What I said was that 
the lack of willingness to listen to non-dance music held back techno.  
That's my main criticism of dance music in general; when music is seen as 
merely a means to an end (in this case dancing) rather than an end in 
itself, the music will suffer.  I'm not saying there's no good dance 
music (though an awful lot of crap is turned out in the name of 
"danceability"), but what there is has come from paying as much attention 
to the music as the beat.

> believe it or not, some of us rave and some of us are still skeptical.
> however, at a really good rave, for a short time, even my hardened
> skepticism melts before an incredible onslaught of positivity.  if you
> think there's something wrong with being positive - even temporariliy
> - then that's your problem.

You definitely did not take the time to read my post or the one before it 
(your response came before the original even bounced back to me).  I've 
already answered the positivity/negativity thing twice.  I won't repeat 
myself a third time.  I will say in my defense that I am quite capable of 
getting some joy out of existence without recourse to ideological constructs 
like "positivity".

> yeah yeah yeah, life sucks, nothing lasts, nasty brutish and short, i
> got it all.  believe me, i'm pretty pessimistic 99% of the time.  it's
> just that every once in a while i can let go of it.  i think most
> ravers are pretty well adjusted that way, when it comes to attitude.

How nice that y'all are so "well adjusted".

Beast of Eden

(cross-post responses: nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu and
sfraves@techno.stanford.edu)
 




From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 04:34:02 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 04:34:36 -0700
Subject: Come-Unity
Status: 


From a flyer received at ORB.
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???
Status: 

Wednesday,Nov 3,10 PM
1015 Folsom @ 6th st.

    ComeUnity

DJ's Gavin Simon Jeno Garth


!!!!!!!


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 07:40:09 1993
From: Rishad J. Quazi <rquazi@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 10:39:52 EDT
Subject: Rave Doubts (fwd)
Status: 

> 
> >(ravers are) people who are open-minded about exploring many forms of 
> >dance music
> 
> But are they open to *non*-dance music?  Music is more than just 
> something to dance to; good music stands on its own whether you can dance 
> to it or not.  This "tyranny of the beat" is exactly what I'm pointing out 
> when I say the rave scene holds back creative potential.
> 

"Music" is certainly more than just something to dance to, but the question
here is "what is techno"? Last time I checked, techno meant electronic
dance music, and as such we are somewhat confined to forms of music that
can be danced to by mere definition. This is why the 'ambient' music genre
does not rightly fall under techno, if you ask me.

        O         ~    ~
         o    ~        ~               ~
          .   _/,_        ~         ~      ~
           . /o...\__//        FiSH ~ Rishad J. Quazi
             \_'__/``\`      rquazi@csws1.ic.sunysb.edu
        ~      \`          RQUAZI@SBCCVM.BITNET
           ~          .     ~    ~               ~  ~
           \/  .  .     .   \ \/        .      .
        ____\____._..___.____\/_______._

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 08:20:07 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 8:20:37 PDT
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 

RE: The "Rave Doubts" Thread  
 

> >Peter Werner writes:
> 
>I definitely was talking about the ambient tracks.  What I've heard at 
>our local (Seattle) ambient noise club (Seven Beats Per Minute) was 
>outstanding. Do any ravers listen to this stuff?  If not, I'll stand by 
>my point about the rave scene holding back the creative potential of 
>techno music.

>   
> ... Music is more than just 
> something to dance to; good music stands on its own whether you can dance 
> to it or not.  This "tyranny of the beat" is exactly what I'm pointing out 
> when I say the rave scene holds back creative potential.

> ... What I said was that 
> the lack of willingness to listen to non-dance music held back techno.  
> That's my main criticism of dance music in general; when music is seen as 
> merely a means to an end (in this case dancing) rather than an end in 
> itself, the music will suffer.  .......  
> ... but what (good techno) there is has come from paying as much attention 
> to the music as the beat.
> 
> Beast of Eden
> 
> (cross-post responses: nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu and
> sfraves@techno.stanford.edu)
>  

Let me react to some of the points covered above -
1. I also rave and listen to ambient - also some new age and/or ambient 
   industrial, depending on my mood.
2. I get the impression that there's a "danciability vs musical quality"
   hypothesis going on here. Also , a confusion between catagories and
   sub-catagories within a musical scene. 
3. For me , good dance music at a rave has to have much, much more than a
   dancable beat - else , just turn the drum sequencers on and that'll do.
   [ BORING ! ]
4. When I go to a rave , the music in the dance area BETTER BE " a means  to
   an end (in this case dancing)" - that's what it is for, for the
   environment it is being mixed in. For , the states of conciousness 
   acheivable at raves are induced in a unique fashion by the music - 
   not just danciablity , but other factors are required for me -
   "trancability".
5. I had/have high hopes for the Rave Dance Music - the basic requirement
   of danciblity , and NO OTHER HISTORICAL/AESTHETIC REQUIREMENT , means 
   that ANYTHING can be done on top of the rythmn track. 
    ( I use the term Rave Dance Music 
   because I also think that there's a confusion of musical labels
   happening in this thread too. Rave Dance Music [RDM] is defined as music
   at raves that's primarily to be danced to , and I'll refer to the dance-
   secondary stuff as New Cool Music [NCM] ).  
6. An example: the existance of dance jazz did not prevent the emergence of
   cool jazz to "just" listen to. The existance of RDM will not prevent the 
   evolution of NCM . In fact , I expect a cross-fertilization , as most of
   the ravers I know listen to both types , and some of them make RDM as
   well. 
7. Is there a conflict between my points 4 and 5 ? Depends on the person
   making the music ... none of those guys/gals ask MY opinion !!! :-) 


  Gotta go now ( How was the Orb , you SFRavers ? )

					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 08:22:57 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 08:22:20 PDT
Subject: Come-Unity
Status: 



>From a flyer received at ORB.

Wednesday,Nov 3,10 PM
1015 Folsom @ 6th st.

    ComeUnity

DJ's Gavin Simon Jeno Garth


!!!!!!!


YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK folks, charge up those luv phasers!

Come-Unity's have always been some of the best parties, the strongest
love Vibe around, I can't wait!

			- G

P.S. I should have recuperated from Halloween weekend by then!

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 09:27:03 1993
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 09:24:53 PDT
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 



	Well the way that I see it is as follows:

	1. Raving for me and for many others is a form of ritual.
	   It is a communal ritual, in other words it requires the
	   presence of others, people you have some bond with (this
	   may be as deep as family or just that you like to see each
	   other at the same parties).

	2. The focusing activity at this ritual is THE DANCE, that is
	   not to nullify all of the other activities that go on at
	   a party but the thing that brings us all together and for
	   me, has the most powerful effect is the fact that all of these
	   different people are moving to the same rhythm, and doing what
	   their BODIES are telling them to do. For some, this is the first
	   time in their lives that they have discovered that they even
	   HAVE a body.

	3. For some, THE DANCE is an entry point into achieving an ALTERED
	   STATE, similar to a state achieved by many other "primative"
	   cultures on the planet, loosely refered to as Trance Dancing.

	4. Once someone learns to enter this state (with or without
	   chemical assistance), it can become very intoxicating, it is the
	   reason (IMHO) that so many of the "hippie" values are present
	   in the rave community, when you enter this state, you tend to
	   see how things are interconnected rather then how, thing are
	   seperate.  This can have a countering effect on cynicism.

	5. There is room for a wider variety of music at raves, but remember
	   that the thing that make a Rave a Rave and not some folks standing
	   around caught in their ego, evaluating (as opposed to actualizing)
	   their situation is the fact that the music is compelling you to
	   move and to merge.

	6. I am not getting at anything mystical here, the reactions I'm
	   talking about can be looked upon as being totally physiological/
	   psychological.  

	7. I don't consider myself a "hello kiddie" raver, I enjoy a good
	   SRL performance and I believe I understand the position from
	   which they do their art, but Mahakali (to wax mystical now :)
	   is only one aspect of creation and her path is hard and often
	   full of tears, although like all true paths, there is liberation
	   at the end.  Some of my Industrial friends do walk this path
	   and have my deepest respect, others are just "posers with attitude"
	   who I have seen fall to pieces at the first rumbling of a good
	   5.x earthquake (maybe they can't handle unbridled Kali who doesn't
	   really need man-made machines to wreak destruction).  Growing up 
	   in the inner city, I've lived next to toxic area, express trains,
	   and other sources of industrial influence, in those environments
	   you learn to co-exist even embrace these things because it is
	   necessary to survive.  Eventually, if you are lucky, you live
	   long enough to see another way.  You realize that the hard path
	   that you had followed was necessary in order to get where you
	   are (it is true that in the jungle, concrete or organic, only the
	   strong, quick or smart survive) but there are other ways of being
	   more appropriate to other environments.  That is why I live here
	   now and don't want to live in Brooklyn where I lived for 10 years.

	8. Raving, above all other things that it is, IMHO should be an
	   expression of LOVE.  It doesn't have to be the "hello kiddie"
	   type of love if that doesn't turn you on, it can be the
	   "tough love" that I keep hearing about but am not exactly sure
	   what is ment by it.  But LOVE is and should be the driving force.



				- G


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEXUS SYSTEMS/CYBERTRIBE-5 : Voice:(415)965-2384   Fax: (415)473-3062
Editor/Instigator/Catalyst : Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>
Production Crew		   : Universal Movement Trinity <umt@nexsys.net>

        "They might stop the party, but they can't stop the future"

		--PGP Public key available upon request--
Paranoia - Your state of mind when you finally realize what's really going on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 09:37:33 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 09:38:07 -0700
Subject: wicked set!
Status: 

Thanks,Markie,for your wicked set and the end of the
Warfield event..  
What a total evening.
-c.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 09:59:46 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 10:00:22 -0700
Subject: My name
Status: 


Hi,My name is Rags,
Woof woof!

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 10:51:43 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 10:52:14 PDT
Subject: Volunteer for Liquid Air, please?
Status: 

Liquid Air needs one more person who can show up at the storage site
at 10PM to help load the truck.  Please reply via email.

Thanks in advance!  See you at the party, all.
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE -------- brycer@netcom.com--------
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party 10/16 -----
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 13:57:04 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 13:56:56 -0700
Subject: Re:  YSH cancelled - New Moon party happened partially
Status: 

On Oct 15,  2:30pm, you proclaimed:
} What about the place near 24th-25th and Illinois where they had YSH
} several weeks back?  That place seemed to work well, and to my knowledge
} the party didn't get popped (at least by the time I left at around 3 AM)

Well, Thursday night it was raining cats and dogs, and in general the weather
is getting more and more hostile, so finding indoor spaces is becoming 
imperative.  

That site is good, but it's been used a lot, and there's something to 
finding new spaces.....

	Brian


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 15:06:20 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 15:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Disco Queens Now
Status: 

I think Geoff's dance theory is strong.
Emphasis on the body. For us every day is a 
cyber-day. Just because it seems like the
millenium brings a new way.  Dispite the attractiveness
of T. McKenna and others'  theories about evolving out of the 
"monkey body" and the role of digital tech in
achieving this evolution, WE LIVE IN OUR BODIES, and I
think we will take them with us. 

I rave for the fact that dance music is evolving fast
and the gay discos arent keeping up.

MY favorite line from the movie TGIFriday
"Kiss concert ,  ... thats kid stuff. We're disco queens now!"

salutations
allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 17:06:48 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 17:01:54 PDT
Subject: Liquid Air
Status: 



	it's raining in the south bay, is liquid air still on?


			G

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 17:25:15 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 17:25:47 PDT
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 

Geoff White said:
> 
> 
> 
> 	it's raining in the south bay, is liquid air still on?
> 
> 
> 			G
	It's sunny and beautiful in Berkeley. (I don't know if Liquid
Air is still on or not, but a bit of information to help.)


-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 18:18:19 1993
From: Lazlo Nibble <lazlo@triton.unm.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 19:18:07 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 

> "Music" is certainly more than just something to dance to, but the question
> here is "what is techno"? Last time I checked, techno meant electronic
> dance music . . .

"Electronic dance music" is the definition of techno given to small children
so they can play with it without hurting themselves.  Trying to wield it as
a weapon in an argument will make people who are familiar with techno laugh
at you.

--
Lazlo (lazlo@unm.edu)

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 18:27:04 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 18:27:36 PDT
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 

Liquid Air is still a green light.  We will make two decisions:
one at 10:00, just prior to loading the truck, when I will update
the phone message, and again when we arrive at the site (roughly
11:15).  If we are still go at that time, music will start at
midnight or shortly thereafter. Also, I will be posting 
directions to the site to this list at about 9:25, for those of
you with continued email access.

The location is a genuine 30 minute drive from downtown SF, in
the East Bay between Oakland and Fremont, for those of you who
need to plan your trips.  

Be sure to check the voice mail number below just before you
leave.  And thanks for your continued interest! This could
well be the last well known renegade before next Spring.
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE -------- brycer@netcom.com--------
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party 10/16 -----
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 19:01:28 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 16 Oct 1993 19:00:49 -0700
Subject: Re:  wicked set!
Status: 

Actually, the last set was Dutch, Markie, and Buck getting in 2
white-labels before BGP literally pulled the plug, usurping the role usually
played by more formal blue unies.

Both the djs and live Dub-Tribe were hot at the afterparty, but i had to
leave just before sunrise, so i missed any birthday whatevers from Orb or
Alex Patterson.  Anybody?

alpha-10

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 20:44:56 1993
From: Rishad J. Quazi <rquazi@ic.sunysb.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 22:37:53 EDT
Subject: new newsgroup
Status: 

Hi all,

        just browsing through USENET a while ago and came across a
new newsgroup:

        soc.religion.shamanism

it might be interesting reading for some of you 
--
        O         ~    ~
         o    ~        ~               ~
          .   _/,_        ~         ~      ~
           . /o...\__//        FiSH ~ Rishad J. Quazi
             \_'__/``\`      rquazi@csws1.ic.sunysb.edu
        ~      \`          RQUAZI@SBCCVM.BITNET
           ~          .     ~    ~               ~  ~
           \/  .  .     .   \ \/        .      .
        ____\____._..___.____\/_______._

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 16 20:48:24 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 20:48:58 PDT
Subject: Liquid Air Directions
Status: 

Liquid Air looks like all systems go! The weather has cleared up,
and it looks like it will stay that way.  Please call the info
line before you leave, just in case.

Directions:  Find 880.  Take 880 to the San Leandro/Oakland border.
Take the exit just south of the Oakland Airport, Davis Street WEST.
Follow Davis to Doolittle. Turn left. Take Doolittle to Williams
which is the 1st stop light. Turn Right. Follow to Neptune. Turn
right. Follow to the end.  

Be sure to dress warmly...looks like it will be chilly tonight!
Water, blow pops, etc., to share would be much appreciated.

Hope to see you there!
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE -------- brycer@netcom.com--------
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party 10/16 -----
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 03:07:10 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1993 02:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 

What the hell are you talking about, Lazlo?  Wielding weapons on small
children?  Hurting techno while playing with yourself?  Like what you
like, listen to what you listen to.  Screw trying to define and categorize
all for the purpose of having a spiffy label to affix squarely on your
forehead.  That's what political correctness is for.

Sami

On Sat, 16 Oct 1993, Lazlo Nibble wrote:

> > "Music" is certainly more than just something to dance to, but the question
> > here is "what is techno"? Last time I checked, techno meant electronic
> > dance music . . .
> 
> "Electronic dance music" is the definition of techno given to small children
> so they can play with it without hurting themselves.  Trying to wield it as
> a weapon in an argument will make people who are familiar with techno laugh
> at you.
> 
> --
> Lazlo (lazlo@unm.edu)



From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 10:38:36 1993
From: Lazlo Nibble <lazlo@triton.unm.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1993 11:38:18 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 

> What the hell are you talking about, Lazlo?  Wielding weapons on small
> children?  Hurting techno while playing with yourself?  Like what you
> like, listen to what you listen to.  Screw trying to define and categorize
> all for the purpose of having a spiffy label to affix squarely on your
> forehead.

Uhm, that was basically my point, Sami.  Next time you don't understand
something, try to just ignore it, okay?

--
Lazlo (lazlo@unm.edu)

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 11:01:36 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 93 11:02:02 -0700
Subject: Rhythm!...ouch my head hurts!
Status: 

Rhythm was the SHIT last night.  I came just in time to hear the last part
of Jan's set.  It was really deepdopefunky!  I never knew she could spin
like that!

Next up to the plate was Markie...all I can say is omigod!  Every time I
hear him lately he keeps transporting my head to another dimension.  Markie
is the shit when it comes to music selection, mixing, mood, and whatever
other category you'd like to name.  That crowd went crazy when he hit the
decks.  And not once did I hear a record skip :)  Incredible!

With all the bases loaded Jeno came on.  I have not heard Jeno spin in
quite a while.  And when I have heard him spin he was not the same Jeno who
put me into dimension 8.  Last night he managed to put ALL my doubts aside.
 He's more dangerous than ever.  He brought out some stuff that was
absolutely insane.  He even brought back a few oldies in a way that only
Jeno can do.  Home run!

Leon came on next.  I only heard the first 30 minutes of hit set
(unfortunately), but his shit was right on, and the crowd wanted more.  So
did I ,but any more dancing without the aid of psycho-trop's woulda
rendered me useless ;)

Rhythm is a great club.  Nice people, I would say about 75% gay crowd. 
Culturally mixed.  And when people bump into you the words "excuse me"
always followed.  The music is not to be believed.  I would suggest going
whenever you get a chance.  It is one of the few weeklies that are going
off!

-------
Happenings:

DJ James has a couple of new tapes he's sporting around lately.  A really
cool mix of garage/house/acid that he did.  A grand total of 200 minutes! 
The stuff is really well put together, and shows why James is one of the
greats when it comes to mixing/music selection.  He ain't selling 'em, so
if you get copies consider yourself in good shape.

I wrote a letter to URB about the TEPID coverage we're getting in the
SanFrandisco section.  We'll see what happens.

Look for a new Friday thing going on starting around the 5th of Nov.

20Hz (A new record label in SF), is looking for new talent to sign.  If you
have good music you'd like to press to vinyl, get in contact with me.  20Hz
is looking for dance tracks as well as dance track "tools" (had to cop that
Alfie, sorry ;).  If you have the desire, and the talent, and you beleive
in yourself, get in contact with me.

A new promoter is now on the net.  He does some pretty samll parties like
Basics, Gathering, etc. etc.  He is doing a new clothing line from his
company called Communion. His addr is: choices@netcom.com .

========
Errata:

This year IMO has been interesting to say the least/most.  There were FAR
fewer parties this year than the previous few years.  Tons of promoters
have dropped off the scene, and all that is left it seems, are those people
who are genuine enough to last.  There are still 1 or two greedo's left,
but they will not last long.  For the most part I would say that this scene
is undergoing a shift.  I would not say that it is evolving, but it's focus
is changing.

People don't attend the events in such large numbers anymore.  Prices seem
to have stabilized in the $10-$15 range.

I would have to say that the 21+ crowd is very jaded about the scene right
now.  They have the parties that they will attend, and only rarely venture
out to new happenings.  This is why it is soooo good to see a few new
promoters on the scene.  It is good to get the younger people involved with
the scene, because the one thing that is sorely needed is an infusion of
new blood.

Smaller parties are the main attractions.  People seem to like the more
intimate parties, and I for one am all for that.

But in talking to some of my friends who have been on the SF tip since the
beginning I am starting to hear "Hell, it's not what it used to be...". 
Well damn right, nothing stays the same.  The idea is to keep your palette
fresh enough so that you can appreciate the new seasons offerings.  Many
just want the same 'ol same 'ol.  Well, I for one have very fond memories
of Toon Town and so on, but I in now way EXPECT that to ever come back.  So
I try to look for new things that people are doing, and appreciate them for
what they are.  Everyone will have that blowout party to which all others
are compared.  The idea is to build upon that experience with new
experiences.  Too bad many want to use the experiences they have had to
pass judgement on current happenings (I have been guilty at times).  This
is unfair to the "scene"(if it is truly a movement/entity) as a whole, and
this is why many have dropped off.  Oh well, there will alwys be room for
new blood. I'm too busy looking to the future.  I guess I'm still waiting
for my "blowout" event to happen :)

I hope Liquid Air went off.  I was not up to the drive last night, and when
I heard that it was 30 mins outside of the city, I decided to go & stay @
Rhythm!  If the party was in city limits (an increasingly difficult thing
to do) I would've gone.

One other word.  I know a few of you are interested in throwing a renegade.
 And many of you are concerned with the "competition".  Well, there IS no
"competition".  Every party has it's core group, and every group is always
being rebuilt/re-invented.  If you decide to throw a party, but it just
happens to be on a night of someone else's decide:

- Are you going for the same demographic?
- Do you know who's throwing a party opposite yours?  If so, have you told
them what you plan on doing?

If you've answered no to either, then go ahead and do your gig.  Keep your
costs low, and full speed ahead!  There is nothing wrong with parties being
opposite each other, as long as there is communication, and clarity of
purpose.  SF has had it's cut-throat moments, but most of this is due to
EGO.  Most of the people who have had such ego's are gone, so do your gig. 
There will never be a "perfect" time (I have had friends throw parties
opposite mine every time I've done one.  Many times it was mere
coincidence.  Other times it was deliberate.  I just said "Fuck it", and
did my gig ;).  The only person you need be true to is yourself, and if
you've been straight-up with folx and they "try" to screw you then it's
their bad.  It will come back to bite them back, for greed/ego has the
ugliest payback.  Witness the current crop of SF/SJ/Sac promoters for
proof.

I've rambled enough...drank a wee bit too much.  Gotta nurse this small
hangdaddy!

Peace,
John 

 

================================================================
"I won't lie to the American people. I'll leave that to others!"
 - Ronald Reagan, answering a question regarding Iran-Contra.
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 13:49:28 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1993 13:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The rave of the Decade!! (fwd)
Status: 

I saw this post and I thought it was funny....

Previously, Joe LeSesne said:
> 
> Hey!  I found this bulletin board/flier leaning against my house this
> morning.  Though it sounded somewhat nifty.  Fluid, you can add this to your
> rave-o-matic list.  Melzie, add this to your rave list too.
> 
> --
> 
>                     rEact CandyLoop Promotions presents
>                                    ---
>             R A V E  O F  T H E  U N I V E R S A L  T I T A N S
>                     the dj battle to destroy the world
> 
>                  Featuring Planet Earth's 80 Hottest Djs      
>                  ======================================== 
>                       Frankie Bones vs Simon Gatrall
>                              Adam X vs Guile
>                             DJ Spun vs DJ Psylicon
>                          Jan Cooley vs Force
>                      Scott HardKiss vs Phreebass
>                         Colin Favor vs DJ Sodium
>                         GrooveRider vs pHd 
>                           Quick Fix vs M.D.MAn
>                         Double Dose vs DJ Break
>                        Pete Ashdown vs Markie Mark
>                        Mike Stevens vs LightCycle
>                       Brian Ragland vs PowErule 
>                         Malicious T vs Doktor Megatrip
>                         Brad Vachal vs DJ Quartz
>                           dieselBoy vs Youth
>                         DJ Thirteen vs Sven Vath
>                      Eddie Richards vs JBeez 
>                              Marcus vs Kevy Kev
>                              DJ Bit vs DJ Hype 
>                                Noel vs Derrick May 
>                      Alex Patterson vs DJ Lunatik 
>                        Ernie Munson vs Carlos
>                         Hosh Gureli vs Robbie HardKiss
>                          Doc Marten vs Special K
>                                Josh vs Goa Gil
>                               James vs Michael Blue
>                                Paaa vs Clay
>                        Earic Patton vs Beer
>                             Phreeze vs Nikki Rivera
>                              Thomas vs Anton 
>                                Dani vs Dutch
>                               Sines vs Shon
>                           Harry Who vs Man Ray
>                          Jeff Mills vs Dr. Seuss
>                         Jon Drukman vs Joey Beltram
>                    Triple-One-Seven vs Graham Massey
>                               J.Jay vs Scott Forbush
>                            Snuggles vs Danny Breaks
>                         Pete Avilla vs Neon Leon
>                    Kevin Saunderson vs MoonPup
> 
>                               GLOBAL TREATS 
>                               =============
> 
>                             Performing L*I*V*E
> 
>                             ------------------ 
>                         The Production House Crew
>                           The Suburban Base Crew
>                             The Reinforced Crew
>                        XL Recordings Power Line-up
>                             Plus 8 Collective
>                       Industrial Strength Collective
>                                R&S Massive
>                           Rising High Collective
>                           Jumpin and Pumpin Posse
>                              ------------------
> 
>                               special * guests
> 
>                 BODY RELEASE                  ULTRAVIOLET CATASTROPHE 
>                     ohio                             california
>  
>                             and the long awaited
>                          CLASH OF THE LIVE-PA TITANS
>                           1.8.7      vs        MOBY 
>                      Winner gets "Face of Techno" Trophy 
> 
>                                     ---- 
> 
>                             TWITCH BATTLE ROYALE
>                       mike wertheim   vs   jim hopkins
>                          ALL OUT REMIX GRUDGEMATCH
> 
>                                     ----
>       THIS THREE WEEK CONTINUOUS HARDCORE RAVE WILL IGNITE THE GALAXY WITH 
>           OVER 10 BILLION BOOMING KILOWATTS OF BODY DISSIPATING SOUND         
>                                       and
>        OVER ONE MILLION 500 MEGAWATT SUN-SHREDDING SIGHT-REMOVING LASERS
> 
>                           featuring for the first time
>         THE HARNESSING OF THE EARTH'S CORE AS THE ULTIMATE BASS MAGNET
>                    guaranteed to split the planet in half !!!!
> 
>          WE WILL BRING GOD DOWN TO EARTH AND SHAKE HIS ASS WITH BASS
> 
>                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>            !Weekend Ambient Meltdown Featuring the BIG LIFE MASSIVE!
>                         courtesy of Lazlo "TP" Nibble
> 
>                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
>    This apocalyptic celebration begins Dec. 1st in the vast region known as
>                                  KANSAS USA
>                                      --- 
>       KANSAS CITY WILL BE TRANSFORMED INTO THE WORLDS BIGGEST MOON BOUCE
>                               bring your socks
> 
>                           ++*++ Admission is Free ++*++
> 
>                      smart drinks by nutrient cafe wholesale
>             toys and goodies by kenner/fisher price/virtual labs/amiga
>                       phresh scented air by cyberaromatrix
>                          promotional clothing by rEact
>                 cyberpunk flavor by future culture/andrew hawks 
>                           piercings by dana watanabe
>                       amish rollerblading by mike brown
>                      equipment courtesy of digital druid    
>                    human unity network by brian behlendorf
>                          groove and soul by god inc.
>         opinions by karen silkwoods car/desi the three armed wonder comic
>                           spoken word by james word
>                        flier by alex pace productions 
> 
>            THREE WEEK FINALE ENDS WHEN THE EARTH PLUMMETS INTO THE SUN
>               AT THE FINAL HOUR THE EARTH BECOMES A HUGE GYROSCOPE
>                             hold onto your seats
> 
>                         ---only for the suicidal---
>                         -life : you know the score-
> 
>                     CALL FOR MORE INFO : 1-800-DEVAST8
>                                          1-800-LUVBASS
> 
>                   (((( THIS IS THE REAL MUTHA FUCKA ))))
> 
> dedicated to alt.ravers and the newsgroup rec.bass-fishing 
> ..the heffalump hunt continues..
> --
> 
> What do you guys think?  Sound good?
> 
> dieselBoy  ;)
> 
>                            105% HighOctane RaveFuel 
>         TECHNOCOLORED      ------------------------      HIGH VELOCITY
>          ULTRA-SONIC       damian@phantom.cis.pitt.edu      BIONIC 
>        BOTS IN TOYLAND     ------------------------     HYPNO-PHLUIDITY
>                               (((((In Stereo)))))
>                                 where available
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 16:46:52 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 93 16:47:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Rhythm!...ouch my head hurts!(fwd)
Status: 

I dunno if this got posted to the list so here goes:
Phred said:

>Return-Path: <phred@satori.well.sf.ca.us>
>Received: from satori.well.sf.ca.us by mail.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)  
> id AA29948; Sun, 17 Oct 93 16:03:30 -0700
>Received: from localhost (phred@localhost) by satori.well.sf.ca.us (8.6/8.6)
>id QAA26100 for jsl@netcom.com; Sun, 17 Oct 1993 16:02:53 -0700
>From: phred@well.sf.ca.us (Fred Heutte)
>Message-Id: <9310171602.ZM26098@well>
>Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1993 16:02:52 -0700
>In-Reply-To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) "Rhythm!...ouch my head hurts!" (Oct
>17, 11:02am)
>References: <9310171802.AA13856@netcom.netcom.com>
>X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.5 20sep93)
>To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
>Subject: Re: Rhythm!...ouch my head hurts!
>
>:c sfraves@techno.stanford.edu
>Every once in a while, one of those postings comes along on sfraves which
>really sums it all up in terms of overview and feeling about what's
>happening in the house.techno.rave.dance scene . . . and jslee's latest
>really did it.  Way to be!
>
>We had an event in Portland last night that finally reached my expectations
>of what our local scene can be and might become.  OPEN HOUSE was fully
>legal and held in a *parking garage* at the back side of Powell's
>Technical Bookstore (for those who know this town), the bookstore which
>is like Going to Mecca for us software types.  I arrived just before
>2 and heard Garth and then Mike Stevens (a good local DJ) spinning it
>up in very fine fashion, while several hundred of my fellow Portlandites
>made like they were having a real good time :)
>
>But it got better.  After the appointed 6 am shutdown, about 60 of us
>ended up over at the Pine Street Theatre (now called La Luna) for an
>impromptu afterparty -- and got off BIGtime!  Unfortunately Garth had
>already headed to the airport (going home after Thursday in Baltimore,
>Friday in DC and last night in Portland), it would have been nice for
>us to show him a little of PDX at its best (although I think he had
>a good time in any event).  My friend Manoj is talking about doing
>a regular Sunday morning thing at Pine Street -- the staff there seems
>to be all for it.  This might be the breakthrough we're looking for up
>here -- it's been so hard to get any momentum going in this town.
>
>Now if we could only convince The Orb to come up here the next time
>they go out on tour stateside . . .
>.
>
>

================================================================
"I won't lie to the American people. I'll leave that to others!"
 - Ronald Reagan, answering a question regarding Iran-Contra.
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 17:37:26 1993
From: Thomas C Butcher <tb303+@CMU.EDU>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1993 20:36:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 

Excerpts from internet.new-music: 17-Oct-93 Re: Rave Doubts by Sami
Khoury@uclink.berke 
> What the hell are you talking about, Lazlo?  Wielding weapons on small
> children?  Hurting techno while playing with yourself?  Like what you
> like, listen to what you listen to.  Screw trying to define and categorize
> all for the purpose of having a spiffy label to affix squarely on your
> forehead.  That's what political correctness is for.
>  
> Sami

Well, by categorizing groups of similar music types, those who don't
know what or where to look can find something that might fit what genre
they prefer.  I know that categorizations are a product of the 'bad
people' or 'politically correct,' but in today's state of musical
affairs, sometimes subgroups can help.

That doesn't mean that categorizations are good, though.  Artists are
often signed for the sole purpose of a record company's want to 'share
the market.'  Thus, sometimes bad music arrives carrying the badge of a
certain type of music.  Categorizations, though, also can provide a
means for someone to discover another genre (s)he likes.  I know this
has happened to me... I listened to strictly electronic music for many
years during the mid-80s (the Jean-Michel Jarre/Kraftwerk stuff), but
hearing something like Tangerine Dream made me want to explore more
hybrid musical textures.

Many artists (Induction :) ) aspire to be a part of a certain category
but actually end up inventing a category of their own.

?

Tom

"Why can't everybody love everybody else?"
"I'm incapable of that sort of unselfish love."

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 18:12:17 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1993 18:11:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 

Yup.

Sami

On Sun, 17 Oct 1993, Thomas C Butcher wrote:

> Excerpts from internet.new-music: 17-Oct-93 Re: Rave Doubts by Sami
> Khoury@uclink.berke 
> > What the hell are you talking about, Lazlo?  Wielding weapons on small
> > children?  Hurting techno while playing with yourself?  Like what you
> > like, listen to what you listen to.  Screw trying to define and categorize
> > all for the purpose of having a spiffy label to affix squarely on your
> > forehead.  That's what political correctness is for.
> >  
> > Sami
> 
> Well, by categorizing groups of similar music types, those who don't
> know what or where to look can find something that might fit what genre
> they prefer.  I know that categorizations are a product of the 'bad
> people' or 'politically correct,' but in today's state of musical
> affairs, sometimes subgroups can help.
> 
> That doesn't mean that categorizations are good, though.  Artists are
> often signed for the sole purpose of a record company's want to 'share
> the market.'  Thus, sometimes bad music arrives carrying the badge of a
> certain type of music.  Categorizations, though, also can provide a
> means for someone to discover another genre (s)he likes.  I know this
> has happened to me... I listened to strictly electronic music for many
> years during the mid-80s (the Jean-Michel Jarre/Kraftwerk stuff), but
> hearing something like Tangerine Dream made me want to explore more
> hybrid musical textures.
> 
> Many artists (Induction :) ) aspire to be a part of a certain category
> but actually end up inventing a category of their own.
> 
> ?
> 
> Tom
> 
> "Why can't everybody love everybody else?"
> "I'm incapable of that sort of unselfish love."



From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 20:12:19 1993
From: donut@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 93 20:12:10 -0700
Subject: subcribe
Status: 

                Hello, please subsribe me to your list.

donut@cats.ucsc.edu
thanks

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 20:42:51 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 93 20:37:57 PDT
Subject: InterNex makes NYT!
Status: 



	Sisters and Brothers,

	The President of my humble start up (of which I am one fourth)
	InterNex, made page 10 of the Bussiness section of the Sunday
	New York Times.  Check it out!


		GeoffW

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 17 23:23:18 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 93 23:23:47 PDT
Subject: Liquid Air
Status: 

Thanks to all from this list who attended the October Liquid Air.
After a brief false start at our initial site, we moved to our
backup location, and the party went off.  We had a beautiful bay
side site, right amongst the bay flats.  The weather cleared up
nicely.  One side effect of the starry night was that it got really
chilly just between 4 and 7.  We had a fine blaze going, and some
even finer music from Tamara, Chris, Laura and Jon.  I was very
impressed with everyone's sets--they were spectacular.  We tried
split sets this time: each DJ did a one hour set, and then another
one hour set.  This seemed to work out fine for everyone.

Thanks to all the volunteers who helped load and unload the truck
twice: we couldn't have done it without you!  Thanks to Ethan for
God's personal sound system, Sound Vision.  Truly *the* best
sound system IMO.  

This is the last well-planned renegade that the Fluid Groove posse
will be doing until the weather becomes more predictable.  I had
several moments of anxiety throughout the day Saturday, but it
all worked out fine (this time!).  We saw some truly spectacular
cloud formations, many people reported seeing amazing meteors,
and Laura's second set brought up the sun in a wonderful way. It's
so nice to dance into the light.

On a more serious note, one of our planned DJs, Lee An, was unable
to attend because of an injury to his back.  Please send your cards
and letters to Lee...I hope he gets well soon.  

We'll be doing more indoor events throughout the rainy season...look
for us in December! We've also been contemplating daytime events...
stay tuned for details.
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE -------- brycer@netcom.com--------
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party Dec93 -----
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 02:54:23 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 10:55:13 BST
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 


  Peter> I definitely was talking about the ambient tracks.  What I've
  Peter> heard at our local (Seattle) ambient noise club (Seven Beats
  Peter> Per Minute) was outstanding. Do any ravers listen to this
  Peter> stuff?

They certainly do.  I would class this as "ambient house".  By
"ambient" i don't necessarily mean beatless, but i mean it's primarily
music for listening to, rather than dancing to.  By "house", i mean
that it's come out of the house/dance scene, using that term in the
broadest possible sense.

Many of the best parties will have an ambient chill out lounge where
exactly this kind of music is played, where people can relax and have
a smoke after exhausting themselves on the dance floor.

I should say that I am of course answering from a UK perspective, but
IMHO ambient music is very much a part of the rave scene...


	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 09:40:27 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 09:40:00 -0700
Subject: Re:  Liquid Air
Status: 

Where was it we drove from 12:pm to 4:30am looking for it? The second directio
ns said, "......take 880 south to Fremont Blvd passed the 84, make a left on
Cushing and it will be at the end of the road....".

1) Cushing Pkwy only went to the right off Fremont Blvd.
2) If you took a left It would still be Fremont Blvd.
3) You had to make a U-turn from the Fremont Off ramp to get to Cushing.
4) there was total silence on Cushing and no one in site (I give credit to
Bryce and his posse for that because it did not get busted).
5) there were two other exits Central Fremont and Fromont Blvd, which was
confused the hell out of us and one or two other carloads of fellow ravers we
happened to run into at a gas station, I think it was Nath and his Posse, they
were lost just like us.


Maybe next time I'll get to meet all you guys! oh well!(snap of the finger).

PS I was looking forward to it so was Bob and our friends Dan and Missy.

hoss

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 09:43:31 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 09:41:39 PDT
Subject: Rave Doubts
Status: 

peter werner:
>Did you even read what I said before you responded?  Where do I claim that 
>listening to a form of music holds back creativity?  What I said was that 
>the lack of willingness to listen to non-dance music held back techno.  

it seems to me that the 2nd and 3rd sentences in that paragraph equate
to the same thing.

>That's my main criticism of dance music in general; when music is seen as 
>merely a means to an end (in this case dancing) rather than an end in 
>itself, the music will suffer.  I'm not saying there's no good dance 
>music (though an awful lot of crap is turned out in the name of 
>"danceability"), but what there is has come from paying as much attention 
>to the music as the beat.

this paragraph is a stellar example of the 100% content-free post.  of
COURSE there's crap in the dance music arena... there's crap in EVERY
genre, even in your personal favorite genre du jour (whatever that may
be).

what exactly is your point?  "the lack of willingness to listen to
non-dance music held back techno" is a meaningless statement - who
exactly did it hold back, and how do you know their music would have
been any better had they listened to non-dance music?

tell me if my interpretation here is correct: i think your main
complaint stems from what you perceive as a desire on the part of
certain musicians to make purely "functional" music - ie: music that
only works on a dance floor.  but, what's the big deal?  there have
been ritual drummers around the world doing nothing but beats for
people to bug out to since time began - but you probably think that's
a more "pure" form since it's non-electronic and oh so trendy to have
a japanese kodo drummers CD on your coffee table these days.

(note: no disrespect to the kodo drummers - i think they're awesome!)

so, i repeat, what is your point?

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 10:42:09 1993
From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 10:34:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dancing and Listening
Status: 



  One of the interesting --- and apparently inevitable -- morphs in
Western music is the transition of music from the dance floor to the
concert hall. It happened in the time of Louis XIV, it happened with the
waltz, it happened with jazz, it even happened at the Fillmore and Winterland
with rock: at first, the music is made to dance to. Then, after a while,
more and more people just sit or stand it out and listen. Charlie Mingus,
the great jazz bassist, used to say "You can't listen and dance at the
same time. So sit down, shut up, don't make noises, and listen to our music!"
  I wonder if the same could happen to techno and/or house? 
  If you were composing music primarily to be listened to, would you tend
to make it more complex than if you were making it solely to danced to?



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 10:47:12 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 13:47:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Rave Doubts
Status: 


I'm not really sure what techno is. I get different answers if I talk
to a non-raver, a raver, a DJ, and a record store employee.

I used to use it to refer to the entire genre of "harder than new age"
electronic music. More often I'm seeing it used to describe only some
of it, specifically the harder stuff.

Names, genres, philosophies... labels seem very important to us.
Reminds me of a story I once read where some aliens in a bar were
talking about that particularily human need and its implications.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 10:55:03 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 10:56:22 PDT
Subject: SFR Phone List
Status: 


Here's the latest phone list.  As always, remember that some of these
numbers may be out of date or obsolete.

-Derek


Last mailed:  08.19.93
Last updated: 10.18.93

Regional Info Lines:

415.626.4087  Be-At Line (SF)
310.444.BOMB  The Bomb (LA)
405.231.9650  CyberTribe (Oklahoma City)
514.854.6446  DNA rave line (Montreal)
800.4RA.VELI  National rave line (1-800-4-RAVE-LINE)
310.521.6421  Rocks (LA)
206.322.RAVE  Seattle rave line (courtesy Underground Dance Music)
714.254.8229  Side Show (LA)
619.685.8449  Statik (SD)
408.399.2611  up3 info line (SF)				

Parties/Clubs/Stores/Mail Order/etc
number        name						notes
415.487.8383  All Gods Children
415.750.9368  Ameba (1732 Haight)				clothing
415.245.7789  Ananda
415.974.9363  Aurgasm
415.442.7922  Awaken
415.995.2501  Baked Raindrop (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
415.905.9629  Basics/Lift
415.861.2507  Behind the Post Office (Haight)			clothing
415.241.1560  Black Sun Rising/Depth Chamber/Discotech
415.979.8845  Boogie Buffet
415.567.0276  BPM Music Factory (1141 Polk)			records
415.255.7168  Bulletproof (629 Haight)				store
415.905.6441  Casper
415.995.4646  Cat in the Hat
415.267.7660  Channeling
415.252.7912  Cleo's Cafe					cafe/club
415.241.1569  Come/Unity (Malachy)
415.281.0296  Communion clothes					clothing
415.979.4543  Cool World/Cyberfest
415.974.9715  Corduroy City
415.406.0299  Culture
415.679.8070  Deep Forest
408.345.2386  Deep Space
415.469.2027  Diverse City
415.267.7694  Eden N93
415.884.ABCD  Elmo 
415.995.4787  Energy
415.737.1846  Equinox/Sound Lab
415.599.3360  Escape (Joy)/Channeling
415.666.EXTC  Excelerave
510.869.GLAD  F.A.B.R.I.C/The Garden 
415.773.9431  Flem Globber
415.487.8497  Fluid Groove/Liquid Air
415.487.6305  the Fridge
415.266.8215  Funky Tekno Tribe/Spirit of the Tree/Magic Roundabout/Instinct
408.920.1762  Funky Underground
415.267.4800  Gathering/Vision/Let Freedom Rave
415.905.5917  Get Down Get Down Get Down/Soul System
415.267.3926  Good Times
415.267.3932  Groove Kitchen
415.280.6904  Groovy Tunes
415.905.9308  Harmony
415.979.8444  Hardkiss (Midsummer Night's Dream)
415.337.4362  Hardkiss (Waldo/Wish)
415.647.4788  Home/Tilt-A-Whirl/Fetish
415.252.1440  Housewares (1322 Haight)				store
415.442.1973  Housing Project
415.337.4905  I magi nation (Richard Sun)/Mystery School
415.979.6807  Island Universe/Trance In Space
415.915.0979  Itech (itech@netcom.com)			lighting,sets,sound
415.245.5066  It's a Small World
415.905.6443  Java/Once Is Never Enough
408.725.1291  joURnees (faerie@ucsb.ucsc.edu)			rave stuff
415.905.8801  Juice/Nectar
916.448.7312  Makato Records (730 K St. Sacramento)		record store
415.979.5097  Massive Culture/Soul System
415.647.3700  Mind The Gap/Universal Vibe
415.621.5538  Mission Rock (the club)
408.236.3787  Motion
415.267.4882  Mr Floppy's
415.487.6237  Mr Happy's Disco/Love Garage
415.905.8811  Mushroom Jazz/Jazid Up
415.826.6137  Nrgdesign						flyers
415.267.6178  Nutrient Cafe Wholesale (ccat@netcom.com)		smart mixes
415.974.6726  Orb: an ambient experience
408.998.2662  Orbital Therapy (Mark Johns)			visuals
415.905.8831  Origin/Foundation/Maximum House
415.266.8232  Overnight Xpress/The Flower Garden
510.505.8841  Passage/Flapjacks
415.435.8627  Pepper
408.450.2528  Planet Drum
510.548.8511  Primal Records (Berkeley)				records
415.236.2284  Progress
415.281.0586  Pull My Finger/Jama Rave/Spirals
415.776.7036  Punch Drunk
415.267.0640  Pure
415.599.3750  Recycle/Crunch
415.905.6372  Reunion/Atomic Rooster
510.287.8778  Revival
415.281.3344  Rhythm
408.427.7639  RockUs Rainbow Sound (billyr@sco.com) 		sound system
408.459.7448	(provided sound for Cyborganic Be-in & Lighthouse 1)
415.979.4892  Romper Room
415.995.4959  Sharon
415.281.5620  Sin/Unification/the birth of the sun/Sunrise
415.995.2306  Sound Factory
415.543.1300  Sound Factory (Life)
510.443.SPUN  Spun, Inc.					DJ/act booking
415.267.5930  Tesla
415.979.8825  Together/Genesis
415.267.4886  ToonTown
408.292.7464  Toons/Circus
415.756.1531  Tribal Funk
415.974.9707  True Devotion (Sharon)
415.626.6995  Tweekin' Records (593 Haight)			record store
408.286.8303  Underground Records (380 S 1st St, SJ)		record store
415.995.4935  Unity
415.281.5913  Universal Groove
408.292.6606  Upstairs Records (21 E Santa Clara)		record store
415.337.4988  Vortex
415.541.5617  Wacky Citrus
415.979.6822  Wally World/To The Head
415.979.8867  Where the Wild Things Are/Tip Toe Through The Tulips/OAP
415.512.5713  Wicked 
415.765.7670  Your Sisters' House
415.695.7887  Zanzibar						club/bar
415.561.1448  Zoe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 10:58:36 1993
From: Rishad J. Quazi <rquazi@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 13:58:29 EDT
Subject: Dancing and Listening (fwd)
Status: 

>   If you were composing music primarily to be listened to, would you tend
> to make it more complex than if you were making it solely to danced to?

i think it should be made simpler, if the music is to be danced to in an
informal 'free-style' form a la rave dancing. IMHO, good rave dance music
is like a mantra to take you into a trance -- it repeats a phrase over
and over (the bassline) while morphing and mutating slightly with each
iteration (eg. acid bassline squiggles change phase or form with each
bar). if the rhythms or melodies are too elongated or complex, it is
hard for my soft brain to dance to, even harder to trance to. didn't
someone on this list once say that fetal-womb sounds are the easiest
thing to dance to? perhaps that's what trance-dancing is all about --
reviving long suppressed memories of womb rhythms and sounds.

        O         ~    ~
         o    ~        ~               ~
          .   _/,_        ~         ~      ~
           . /o...\__//        FiSH ~ Rishad J. Quazi
             \_'__/``\`      rquazi@csws1.ic.sunysb.edu
        ~      \`          RQUAZI@SBCCVM.BITNET
           ~          .     ~    ~               ~  ~
           \/  .  .     .   \ \/        .      .
        ____\____._..___.____\/_______._

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 11:10:59 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 11:11:32 PDT
Subject: Orbital/AFX/Moby
Status: 

So does anyone have ticket info/etc for Orbital/Aphex Twin/Moby?  
4 or 5 of our friends from PDX are planning on coming down (hee hee)
for the show.  

Also noticed the following shows at the warfield next month:

Bjork with Ultramarine  (the 17th?)
and
Front 242 (the 20th?)

so I'll probably be blowing big buxx on shows this month.  :-)

C'ya,

-H-



-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
                  nature doesn't make foolish laws
...........................................................................

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 11:45:57 1993
From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 11:46:32 PDT
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 

  Well, Bryce has done it once again. Liquid Air (the second incarnation),
despite a bit of bad luck regarding sites, went off very well once again.  I
think that the crowd was great, and as a DJ I must say that it was really 
great to have such an open crowd.  It allowed me to run wild with my second
set and play combinations that I usually only play for myself in the privacy
of my room. Thanks, everyone!

Thanks also to the rain god for sparing us that night.

Also, it was wonderful to see so many people at the Orb show on Friday night
and I am sorry that those of you whom I saw that said you were planning on
going to Liquid Air weren't able to make it. Did the directions throw you off
or was the idea of driving so far away too daunting?


-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
                                Tamara Palmer
                              trance@netcom.com
                   Les beats sont hypnotiques et hallucinants
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- 
-- 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 12:00:05 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 12:00:39 PDT
Subject: Re: Orbital/AFX/Moby (fwd)
Status: 

Derek sent me this (Thanks Derek!) and I called BPM, who said tickets
would probably go on sale tomorrow  (They don't have them yet but
expect them tonight) so I thought I'd pass it along.  

> 
> Howard, here's what's going into the next calendar:
> 
> Sunday, November 14th - See the Light tour w/Moby, Orbital, Aphex Twin
> 	Also: Young American Primitive, Vapour Space 
> 	DJs Tim (Utah Saints), Jonah, Jeno, Alex
> 	All ages, doors at 7pm, $15 in advance.
> 	Tix at Housewares, BPM, Makato, Primal, Upstairs Rec, Underground Rec.
> 	Galleria (101 Henry Adams), SF 
> 	415.241.1560
> 


-H-


-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
                  nature doesn't make foolish laws
...........................................................................

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 12:01:06 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 12:00:58 PDT
Subject: Liquid Air
Status: 


I need to also put in my 2 cents... (and I'll freely admit that I'm
100% biased).  These events that Bryce and Ethan have been putting on
are EXACTLY what people on the list have been wanting --- inexpensive,
outdoors, adventurous music (not the same old shuffle-house-beat
shit), really great people, very open situations.  Given all this,
I'll never understand why more people from the list don't make it out.
Sigh.

Big thanks to all the DJs who made it so groovy... and it's getting **
really ** obvious to me that we are gifted to have some great DJs here
on the list.

Not to rag on Wicked, but the last FMR I went to had around 1 1/2
hours of music before being busted, had over a thousand people, had
people selling nitrous in the crowd, and also featured about 40
minutes of killer tunes mixed in with some fairly standard pedestrian
boring stuff.  On my scorecard, Liquid Air had around 6 hours of
music, a nice sized crowd with plenty of space for everyone and mature
enough to be able to handle a bonfire (!), people doing drugs were
courteous enough to keep it low key, and hours and hours of very
creative music.  Liquid Air was closer to SF than many FMRs... and the
reality is that we all know that renegades need to be more creative
(and willing to go out of town) in order to find good sites which
won't get busted.

Big howdy to everyone who made it out, it was great dancing and
hanging out with you all, and I'm looking forward to the next one!

Bob

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 12:19:58 1993
From: gdallensworth@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 11:49:32 -0700
Subject: ???
Status: 

This is awful. I got this from quartz.rutgers.edu  /pub/law
We are living in a police state...

From: tomf@tekigm2.MEN.TEK.COM (Thomas E Flynn)
Subject: Re: HR4079 (long)
Date: 13 Apr 90 09:57:48 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.

In article <125@ctbilbo.UUCP> pete@ctbilbo.UUCP (Pete Ritter) writes:
>A few nights ago on the radio, I caught the tail end of a discussion of
>a bill before Congress that would temporarily suspend the 4th (search and
>seizure) and 8th (cruel and unusual punishment) Amendments.  I think the
>bill was HR4079 and "temporarily" was 5 years.  I got the idea that the
>purpose of the bill is to make it easier to prosecute dealers and users of
>illegal drugs.  Anyone who knows the details of this bill, please enlighten
>me.  More and more, the "WOD" is becoming the "WOC".
>  

I just received a copy of H.R.4079 in the mail.  As soon as I read the 
original posting, I phoned up the Bill Status Office, in Washington, 
((202)225-1772) and requested a copy.  For those interested in obtaining
a copy, I was referred to the House Document Room, (202)225-3456.  They 
sent a copy, free of charge (it took 3 days). 

H.R.4079 is truly an incredible assault on our Constitutional rights.  The
Bill is 96 pages long, however, I have listed several interesting excerpts 
below.  The excerpted text is straight out of the Bill, except where noted
in brackets.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

				H.R. 4079

     To provide swift and certain punishment for criminals in order to
          deter violent crime and rid America of illegal drug use.

         House of Representatives, February 22, 1990, Mr. Gingrich. 
[Gingrich is the main sponsor, however, there is a list of other 
 Representatives who, presumably, want their name on the Bill, also. -tf].

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE

    This Act may be cited as the "National Drug and Crime Emergency Act".

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 12:56:52 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 12:56:39 -0700
Subject: Re:  Liquid Air
Status: 

On Oct 18,  9:40am, you proclaimed:
} Where was it we drove from 12:pm to 4:30am looking for it? The second directio
} ns said, "......take 880 south to Fremont Blvd passed the 84, make a left on
} Cushing and it will be at the end of the road....".

It was still there - stayed there until 8am that morning, after the sun had 
risen.

} 1) Cushing Pkwy only went to the right off Fremont Blvd.
} 2) If you took a left It would still be Fremont Blvd.
} 3) You had to make a U-turn from the Fremont Off ramp to get to Cushing.

I think you may have confused right and left :)  Actually, while still
on the off-ramp there is a sign that says "Cushing" with an arrow in the
right direction.  It may have been a little confusing, I admit; actually
I think more people got tripped up on which Fremont to exit at, since there
were two Fremont Blvd exits separated by about 10 miles.  The "past the 84"
meant go down the 880 past the 84, exit Fremont Blvd; apologies to those
who took the first and got lost, and kudos to those who finally found it :)

} 4) there was total silence on Cushing and no one in site (I give credit to
} Bryce and his posse for that because it did not get busted).

There was a dirt road at the end of Cushing: "Take Cushing all the way down;
it becomes a dirt road" said the directions.  We were at the very end, in the
middle of nowhere.

Anyways, sorry about the mixup; it was a great party!  There must have
been a meteor shower that night because I saw at least a dozen streaks
in the sky.  The sunrise was one of the most stunning sunrises I have 
ever seen, as it was coming up behind fluffy clouds :)  

Thanks to Bryce! and to everyone else involved in throwing this....
even around 5am when it got REALLY REALLY cold I was still happy to
be there.

	Brian


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 12:57:56 1993
From: gdallensworth@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 12:41:36 -0700
Subject: Crime Act
Status: 

The bill was passed as written. As it indicates, it is set to expire in 1995.
What a bummer, eh?
-GM

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 13:26:56 1993
From: s_buebl@rzmain.rz.uni-ulm.de
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 21:24:10 +0100
Subject: Progressive Techno?
Status: 

Again I am searching for hints which techno band can be recommended as
progressive, experimental, innovative, high energy, complex.....

I am NOT SUBSCRIBED to this mailing-list, so please REPLY PRIVATLY to me if
you want me to read your answer.

May the long time sun shine on you, all love surround you, and the pure
light within you guide you all your way on,
Felix

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 13:36:57 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 14:36:56 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Orb Be in U
Status: 

I just got over one of the most incredible weekends of my life.  Excuse me if
I sound a little dazed, but I've really lived a lifetime these past three
days.

Friday night, I boarded a flight for San Francisco, flying in for one reason,
and one reason only.  To see The Orb.  When I first saw The Orb two years ago,
it was with 100 other people in a small Salt Lake City venue for $3.  I had no
interest in DJing, throwing parties, or doing any sort of promotions.  That
night turned my life around as I danced harder than I have ever done to music
that I had, for the most part, never heard before.  It was a pivotal point in
my life.

I had attempted to book them for this tour in Salt Lake, and although they
expressed an interest, it turned out that they couldn't make it through on
their schedule.  Matt E. Silver is a gem of an agent/promoter and the nicest
guy on the planet as well.  If there is anyone in this country I could pick to
run a tour for the scene, and not for exploitation, it would be Matt E.  I
told him that I would try and fly out to see Orb wherever I could do so, and
he stated that I should tell him where so he could put me on the guest list.
It turned out that he did a lot more than that for me.

Brian Behlendorf picked me up at the airport and after some noodling around,
we went to a fantastic Vietnamese restaurant near the Warfield for dinner.  I
hurridly chowed down my food, and stated that I had to find the tour manager
before things got underway.

I ended up having to wait for around an hour before Matt E. finally showed up.
Malcolm, the UK manager apologized for having me wait and slapped me a pass.
Besides the one I scored for Jon Drukman, these were the only two "FLOCK!"
passes that I saw running around that night (besides the one that Alex was
wearing).  The crew had the "All Pastures" badges, but that was about it.  I
was given a rather privileged position for the night, being able to go
*anywhere* but not have any responsibilities.

Jon and I watched Alex and Thrash do some soundchecking for a while.  I got a
good close look at Alex's equipment, which included a Stanton CD-33 DJ CD
player.  I also got to talk with Buck about his Universe gig, which sound
absolutely amazing.  I asked him about doing Salt Lake and he gave me a really
reasonable price.  He's a very nice guy.

I also got to meet the Reese Pursell, the guy who is responsible for
Astralwerks in New York.  It was a total surprise to run into him on this
tour, but looking at the Wau!/Mr. Modo based "Excursions into Ambience II"
promo I got, it isn't surprising at all.  Reese gave me a preview of the
future of his label, and without a doubt, this is going to be the best dance
label in America.  Its very exciting to look forward to, but it was also very
flattering for him to be the one person who I sent promo packets to who heaped
high praises on my writing.

While talking to Matt E. in one of the offices, a fatherly sort of figure
walked into the room with a permanent smile on his face.  Matt introduced him
as Adam Morris, which didn't register with me until later.  I knew he was
someone, but I couldn't remember who.  I was in such a dazed state that I was
having trouble remembering names of people who were close to me.

The lineup of DJ's changed to give Alex and Lewis time to DJ.  Alex took the
stage first at 10:00 to spin off a very interesting set.  It wasn't closely
beatmatched, more use of taking advantage of beatless breaks, but it was still
wonderful to watch and listen to.  During his set is when I noticed the lights
the most.  They had four 20 foot cloth spheres that they were doing
projections off.  My favorites were when they projected an earth with a black
and white baby, and then an enormous eye that blinked back at the audience.
The slides and film loops were high class.  The video, unfortunately, was not.
Standard computer animation videos, and other junk with what seemed to be one
single Video Toaster 4000 running the show.  The stuff I've seen our own Taste
VJ do, ZapKerPow!, kicked their butts all over the floor.  Too bad to have
those huge screens with no punch behind them.

While Lewis DJ'd, I wandered around backstage again.  I finally found the
dressing room where Alex and the rest of the backing musicians were hanging
out.  There was a large star, with the name "Jerry" painted on the door.  Matt
E. introduced me to Alex and said that I had some things to give him.  It was
Alex's birthday by coincidence, so it was kind of nice to have brought him
some presents.  I gave him a book filled with pictures of Utah, a Taste
t-shirt, and copies of all the fliers I have done along with rave journals
that I have written bound into a book.  In addition, I wrote Alex and Kris a
letter which he read very closely and carefully.  Alex seemed genuinely
touched by what I had written and put out his closed fist (a gesture which he
and Adam Morris seemed to use exclusively) for me to punch my closed fist
into.  I felt embarrased to have brought my entire Orb collection along with
me for him to sign, so the bag stayed closed all night.  Alex stated that he
was in need of some reading material for the tour and thanked me for the
books.

It wasn't much longer before he got up to take the stage again.  I returned to
the audience to watch what I had been so anxiously awaiting for two years.
They kicked off with a new track, "Plateau" which was a bit more than ambient.
More along the lines of "4th Dimension".  After playing a highly remixed
version of "Little Fluffy Clouds" a few others, and "Blue Room" I realized I
was being stupid to have to deal with being crowded and pushed around by other
people when I had a pass.  I went up to a vantage point on the stage, no more
than 15 feet (but not visible to the audience) and danced my way into space.
I stayed there for the rest of the show, watching Alex mix and Thrash tweeking
knobs on his monster-equalizer (this thing is about 12 feet wide).  I was
slurping in the moment as hard as I could.  The sound in front of the stage
wasn't that great, so the sound in the back was a bit muddled.  Did I CARE
though?  I was seeing angels at that point.

"The Valley", the other new track, kicks some serious booty.  I can't wait to
get this thing in my paws.  Most of the night was taken up by "Adventures"
material.  The only tracks from "U.F.Orb" were "Blue Room" and "Towers of
Dub".

Alex's girlfriend came up and stood beside me and danced a bit.  I turned to
her and asked if it ever got boring.  She said that it did sometimes, but she
always looked forward to new places to play.

After almost two hours of this, the show came to a close with my favorite,
"Outlands" which rolled over the audience like a tidal wave.  While I was
madly moving around in the darkness on the side, I saw Alex glance over at me
with a grin.

Finally, they ended.  I asked a stage hand to get me a setlist (which I left
at home today) to keep.  Then I went down into the basement where a girl was
spinning some very groovy soul and jazz.  She simply segued from one record
into another, which taught me a lesson about DJing.  Sometimes it isn't all
technique, but just the music that make you move.  I hung around in that room
for a while and danced, then tried to make my way back to the dressing room to
retrieve my music and t-shirts.  I was surprised to find that access had been
restricted to everyone except the crew.  Reese told me that they would open it
up soon, so I went back and relaxed in the backstage dancefloor.  Adam Morris
walked by and asked me if I enjoyed the show, I told him it was unbelievable
and he put his fist out for me to bash.  I thought he was trying to shake my
hand at first, and after a bit of confusion, we finally bashed/shook each
other's fists.

Around 3:30, I got very nervous about things, so I went up onto the stage,
down another stairway, and basically snuck into the dressing room.  Alex and
Kris weren't there, but my records were, so I sat down and grabbed a much
needed bottle of water.

While sitting there listening to people talk, it finally registered to me who
Adam Morris was.  He's Mr. Modo of the label.  I asked him if he was any
relation to Mixmaster Morris and he laughed and said no.  I told him about the
rumor that he was the same person (which he obviously isn't) and he seemed
very peeved about that and stated that he might as well be since Rising High
copied everything that Wau!/Mr. Modo did.  I then asked about the deal with
Big Life, and then followed up with that I really didn't need to know if he
didn't want to talk about it.  He affirmed that with another laugh.  Adam went
on to talk with me about the records that the Hardkisses had given him,
especially one known as "Ultraviolet Catastrophe" which I gave a sparkling
recommendation.  We then talked about the Grand Canyon and about how they
wanted to see that on this tour.  I managed to convince them that it would be
much easier and more rewarding to see Zion National Park, then told him about
the book I gave Alex.

It was getting close to closing, so we both left the dressing room after
saying our goodbyes.  Apparently Alex and Thrash had collapsed on the bus
after the show, no doubt to a large amount of jet lag, so I didn't see them
again.  I went back to the auditorium and met up with Brian and the rest of
the SFRaves crew and tried to find a ride to the airport from the afterparty.
Reese was supposed to spin, so I was looking forward to hearing him.  However,
no such luck was able to come my way.  After the night's experiences though, I
wasn't too disappointed.  I thanked Matt E. (for the umpteenth time) and said
goodbye to Reese.

After being held over in the airport until 10:30, I was on my way home.

Other things happened this weekend, such as promoting and running a sold-out
Crash Worship show that night in Salt Lake City, then helping out the owners
of the venue in running the second held-over night on Sunday, but I won't bore
you with the fantastic details of that experience.  I'm aware of what a pig I
am for posting all of above on the net, but I know my life is hard. :-)  Grab
the brass ring folks, there's nothing you can't do.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 13:50:10 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 13:50:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Liquid Air 
Status: 

From trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer):
From: ???
Date: ???
Subject: ???
Status: 

No, it was the fact that I had stayed up till 10AM the morning after
the Orb show, got only 3 hrs of sleep, and decided to take a nap at
10PM that evening, and somehow slept through the alarm clock straight
into morning :-(.... (then i woke up and went to Groove Kitchen so as
not to feel like a total loser)...

Hopefully I'll catch it the next time! Sounds like good fun.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 15:17:13 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 18:16:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 

Despite:

   1. My car being towed Saturday.
   2. Half the munchies I was going to give away being stolen from
      Susie's.
   3. Two people I really wanted to bring backing out.
   4. Getting lost twice finding the site.
   5. Having a badly upset stomach all night.
   6. 3.5 hours of sleep in three days.

   Total cost for weekend, including food, records, two postcards,
   gas, tows, and fines: $230. (sigh)

I still had a good time. I wasn't my bouncing around grinning self,
but I really enjoyed the music and the company. I thought everyone
played really fun sets.  I especially enjoyed Laura's faster set and
Tamara's second one. As a matter of fact Tamara and John played a few
songs I decided I *had* to have even though I don't own a turntable
(!), so I picked them up at Star on Sunday ;).

Thanks to the DJs for playing great music, to Bryce for putting it on
(that was a great spot), and to everyone else for showing up and
sharing a good vibe. Definitely worth the drive.

Sean



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 15:19:38 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Mon, 18 Oct 1993 15:17:09 -0700
Subject: Re:  SFR Phone List
Status: 


After haight street got busted a few weeks ago, thaNks to jordan's matrix
program, Pepper has moved to Nickie's on lower Haight for Monday nites.
Tonite, Ernie Munson & Chakra.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 15:30:10 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 18:30:02 EDT
Subject: The rave of the Decade!! (fwd)
Status: 

Hee hee 10 gigawatts of sound.

Still... that's just kid stuff compared to Disaster Area :).

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 15:57:58 1993
From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 15:40:00 PDT
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 



> Also, it was wonderful to see so many people at the Orb show on Friday night
> and I am sorry that those of you whom I saw that said you were planning on
> going to Liquid Air weren't able to make it. Did the directions throw you off
> or was the idea of driving so far away too daunting?

Mea culpa.

My ride (the other guy you saw) flaked on me.  I really wanted to go.
I hope everyone had more fun than me that night.  Grrrrrr.

>^/

Btw, I am in the South Bay and can't drive to SF events.  I can ride my
bike to the place of anyone willing to give me a ride to future events.

// g

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 16:37:14 1993
From: amaranth@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Kristen M Johansen)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 16:36:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 

I have the same problem of not being able to find rides to raves since I 
moved from Southern California to the UC Santa Cruz.. It just seems like
nobody has cars up here!  Is there any interest in staring a carpool list/
ridesharing group?  I'd certainly be interested.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 16:38:34 1993
From: gdallensworth@ucdavis.edu (Gregor Mosheh)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 15:58:41 -0700
Subject: The Bill
Status: 


I downloaded it from   quartz.rutgers.edu   /pub/law
There's a number in it for gettiing your own full-length copy.
Like I said, it was passed as written in 1990 and is active in 1995. 
Fortunately, I heard that they are not going to renew it. *phew*
-GM
 (Yes, it's Mosheh. I fgot my got my Davis acct back. Stiill mail to Nyx.)
gmosheh@nyx.cs.du.edu

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 17:12:11 1993
From: Peter Werner <boe666@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 16:57:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Deep Doubts
Status: 


>I would class (the Accident In Paradise CD) as "ambient house".  By
>"ambient" i don't necessarily mean beatless, but i mean it's primarily
>music for listening to, rather than dancing to.  By "house", i mean
>that it's come out of the house/dance scene, using that term in the
>broadest possible sense.

Every time I think I have a working definition of the differences between 
house and techno, somebody throws a wrench in it :).  I thought that 
house was '70s disco based while techno was the more "electronic" stuff.  
Anybody have a better working definition?

Beast of Eden
(x-post all replies to sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU and 
nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu)


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 17:14:44 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 17:14:20 PDT
Subject: rides from south bay
Status: 


I'm more than happy to give people rides to any event I'm going to
from the South Bay.  Caveats: my schedule can be erratic, and I
generally arrive before the music starts and leave at the very end.  I
also take my dog to outdoor events.

Yowsa,
Bob

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 17:27:14 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 17:25:14 PDT
Subject: Deep Doubts
Status: 

>Every time I think I have a working definition of the differences between 
>house and techno, somebody throws a wrench in it :).  I thought that 
>house was '70s disco based while techno was the more "electronic" stuff.  
>Anybody have a better working definition?

that's actually not bad.  house definitely had its roots in the
chicago gay/disco scene - nowadays you've got a few major variants but
they're all based on that swing beat.  techno comes from detroit and
started with really minimal dark electronic stuff like cybotron and
mayday - see the recent Transmat label compilation for a quick primer.

the main thing that seems to confuse people is house music vs the
house scene.  the "scene" includes tons of different styles of music -
nowadays you've got garage house, hardtrance, acid, techno, acid jazz
and more on the dance floor.  ambient house is music for chill-out
rooms, and you might find these under the same roof with screaming
pumped-up dance floors.  so ambient in the sense of atmospheric,
relaxing, whatever and house in the sense of "part of the house
scene."  but definitely not connected to house music...


Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 17:30:22 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 17:30:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 

did you go to OCC?

Hoss

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 18:34:51 1993
From: throb@netcom.com (Robert Oliver)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 18:35:23 PDT
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 

Here's my anecdotes to the renegade.

 I tried to arrive early at the first site to help with the set up.  Not only was I late in arriving at what I thought was the end of Neptune, but I spent over half an hour walking along various bike paths and tripping over a Fitness Trail situp platform--good warm up exercise!  The local "parked" teenagers looked askance at me each time I walked past them ("What's this guy walking around here for?"). :)

After calling and getting directions to the second site, even *I,* who often travels along 880, took the first Fremont exit and spun around there a couple of times before realizing that I had not yet passed 84.  Yea, I'm stoopid!

I was really thrilled to reach the locale after driving and walking around for almost two hours.  Yes, it was c-c-c-cold!  My solution was to dance as much as possible (energy permitting, I used the full body dance method inspired by Amit) or place myself near the fire--warm personalities and hugs abated the chill as well!  Thanks to Tam's, Chris', Laura's, and Jon's sets, I could not stand still.  I am still sore from the Orb-Liquid Air dance-a-thon weekend! 

When I drove out after 7 a.m., I passed two private security guards (apparently from the nearby office building) who were walking on the dirt road away from the renegade.  They waved and smiled at me as I passed them.  I guess something alerted them to our goings-on, but after checking out the situation from a distance (too far to walk?) they decided to let it go.  Another exemplary result of spreading a positive vibe!

I definitely look forward to the next Fluid Grooves production!!

Rob

p.s. Cindy, I'm sorry that you could not make it to Liquid Air.  If you have not found your driver license by the next event, I will give you a ride!  :)

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 18:41:25 1993
From: amaranth@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Kristen M Johansen)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 18:39:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 

Nope, I just got here, and just subscribed to the lists, so I don't know much
about the scene.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 23:03:21 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 22:59:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: next on donahue
Status: 

wheeee the topic for tuesdays donahue is nyc club kidz!!! how can people
who listen to techno be glamourous???? hehehhe partyon...susie (:



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 18 23:42:24 1993
From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 23:34:57 PDT
Subject: garage - so very french!!
Status: 



>the main thing that seems to confuse people is house music vs the
>house scene.  the "scene" includes tons of different styles of music -
>nowadays you've got garage house, hardtrance, acid, techno, acid jazz
>and more on the dance floor.  ambient house is music for chill-out
>Jon Drukman                                         

I was wondering if anyone can recommend some "garage house" compilation
cd's ?  Is this any different from plain ol "garage" ?

I have a few acid jazz cd comps and I like em.  The liner notes talk about
acid jazz as an evolution from garage - anyway I'd like to find a cool comp.
Plus, I heard (last spring) a morning show on KUSF that played alot of
garage and I liked that alot but didn't pay attention to who any of the 
artists were.

Any help would be appreciated
Dave



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 04:11:50 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 12:11:49 BST
Subject: Re: Dancing and Listening
Status: 


  Arthur>   One of the interesting --- and apparently inevitable --
  Arthur> morphs in Western music is the transition of music from the
  Arthur> dance floor to the concert hall. [...] I wonder if the same
  Arthur> could happen to techno and/or house?


I think it already has.  A good example is the series of Artificial
Intelligence albums on Warp.  This electronic listening music is
sometimes called "intelligent techno" because it often is more complex
than electronic dance music.

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 04:57:16 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 12:58:06 BST
Subject: Re: Deep Doubts
Status: 


  Peter> Every time I think I have a working definition of the differences between 
  Peter> house and techno, somebody throws a wrench in it :).  I thought that 
  Peter> house was '70s disco based while techno was the more "electronic" stuff.  
  Peter> Anybody have a better working definition?

House in the great grandfather of all modern "rave" dance music, from
garage, through tehcno to gabba.  So it is sometimes used as an
umbrella term to encompass all of this (the house scene).  Substitute
"dance" if you prefer.  House, as a kind of music, generally has a far
more specific meaning, but i certainly wouldn say that all house is
funky disco based... i'd call that hi-nrg, but that's not really what
i'm into, so others will probably correct me...

Discalimers:
	(a) At times I'm pretty clueless about the definitions, too,
	    particularly when it comes to the subgenres that i'm
	    less interested in.


	(b) Some names -- "hardcore" for instance -- mean different
	    things in the UK and the US




	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 08:33:44 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 09:33:57 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Orb set list
Status: 

First off, I should apologize, for after reading my post again, I should
mention that it wasn't JUST Brian who picked me up at the airport, but Laura
who waited at the gate for me.  Severe apologies to Laura.

Here's the setlist, it was written in a really neat style, sort of a
sticks-make-letters babylonian glyph:

	Plateau
	OOBE
	Fluffy
	Blue Room
	Valley
	Spanish
	Star
	Tower
	Outlands

In addition they did played "Huge Evergrowing Brain..." after "Towers of Dub".

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 08:44:12 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 07:47:19 PDT
Subject: Re: Liquid Air
Status: 


hey all,

the distance was daunting, but for me it was well worth it.  Maybe
because I have recently been sick for about 2 weeks, maybe because
I've been   a pathetic mama's boy and haven't been going out, I
don't know, but in the end I'm glad I went.  There's something
about outdoor events that is extremely keeping rejuvenating, even
if I still can't manage to stay awake past ~5 AM... oh well, practice
makes perfect!

-=Jack=-

  "now you're lookin' back...
   all dogs must chase the cat"

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 08:44:36 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 08:03:15 PDT
Subject: Re:  Liquid Air
Status: 


It may have been a little confusing, I admit; actually
I think more people got tripped up on which Fremont to exit at, since there
were two Fremont Blvd exits separated by about 10 miles.  The "past the 84"
meant go down the 880 past the 84, exit Fremont Blvd; apologies to those
who took the first and got lost, and kudos to those who finally found it :)
---------

 yeah, it took me a while to realize that I had gotten off at the wrong
Fremont boulevard, but once I saw that my surroundings had nothing in
common with the directions, I remembered that there might be another
Fremont boulevard, which I found; from there on it was pretty easy...

Lat,

*

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 08:44:41 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 07:53:50 PDT
Subject: WOD/WOC
Status: 



>me.  More and more, the "WOD" is becoming the "WOC".
--------------------------------------------------


Silly boy, that has *ALWAYS* been the point!

-=Jack=-

  "now you're lookin' back...
   all dogs must chase the cat"

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 08:52:24 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 09:49:55 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: XDZebra Review #37
Status: 

Sorry for the delay, I've had a zillion other things to do in my life and the
music has been piling up at home.  You should see a few more reviews come out
this week.  I've also stopped sending this to all the rave lists, save SFRaves
and NERaves.  There will be a subscription service for XDZ Reviews soon.

XDZebra Review #37

        Addiction
        266 Delmar Ct.
        Salt Lake City, UT 84101-1817

When in Utah call the T A S T E hotline 801-461-3375.

Trying to find these releases?  Try Ear/Rational: angst@psych.colorado.edu
also Twitch Remix Service,584 Castro St,Suite 600,San Francisco,CA,94114

Back issues are available from me by mail or by ftp'ing to techno.stanford.edu.
They're in the pub/raves/music/reviews directory.

XDZebra Reviews may be reproduced without permission under one condition,
they remain intact and unchanged.  If you publish this in print, mail me a
copy via "Addiction".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Review #37 Contents:
House of Acid Jazz - A Collection of Acid * Jazz * House - Volume 1
Twitch CD 8
ADSR: Obsession
Narcosis - A Journey Through the Outs and Ins of Underground
Excursions in Ambience - The Second Orbit
Apollo Compilation


House of Acid Jazz - A Collection of Acid * Jazz * House - Volume 1
Astralwerks: ASW 6103-2
1  121	03:27 The Funky Fellows: Ring Ring
2  130	03:56 Babe Root: Radio La La
3  127	04:28 Trans-Bassix: Zoom
4  134	04:26 Coincidance: The Wonderful World Of
5  130	03:56 Two Bloody Xylophones: Geen Aansluiting
6  130	04:02 Fritz and his Jazzcats: Good Inside
7  121	04:11 Jacomo Brothers: Jazzy Guitar
8  140	04:44 The Funkatears: Hot, Hot
9  134	04:30 Jazz Inc.: Random Access
10 130	04:04 Delfinokkio: No It Isn't Fun
11 132	03:52 Funky Tribe Two: Dance
12 121	04:46 The Funky Fellows: Ring Ring Ring Ring

Comments: Mui mui!  Louie Louie!  This comp jumped me out of my socks and
dazed my boogie machine like nothing in recent times.  Other attempts at acid
jazz have left me ho-humming, but everything on here jumps off into your lap
and forces you to move.  Elements of Italo House, with capable jazz riffs, and
even a smattering of breakbeat makes Astralwerks' latest release wonderful to
listen to and exstatic to dance to.

Summary: 9/10.  Fab, fab, fab.  Kudos to the seven DJs involved in creating
this wonderful sound.


Twitch CD 8
Twitch: TW-CD-08
1  124	05:29 DOP: Non-Stop
2  124	06:37 Harri: Skelph
3  124	05:50 Helicopter: On Ya Way
4  125	07:12 The Wildchild Experience: Jump to My Beat
5  125	05:16 Mother: All Funked Up
6  125	04:57 Daisy Glow: Sunday in the Park
7  127	06:24 Central Fire: Central Fire
8  127	06:20 Direckt: Two Fatt Guitars
9  129	07:30 Up Above The World: Unleashed in the East
10 130	06:47 Meat Beat Manifesto: Mindstream
11 132	05:53 Front 242: Religion
12 133	06:02 PG1: Jazz Energy

Comments: The artwork of sticks on the cover of CD 8 possibly represents the
massive collection of rhythm on the inside.  Catchy tunes like "On Ya Way"
with its stick-in-your-head vocal samples, and "All Funked Up" with its
snippest of 70's rock make for a tasty Twitch treat.  "Jump to My Beat" is
almost a short beat collection in itself, but tends to fail in the structure
department.  Even though I'm sick to death of "Two Fatt Guitars", Twitch has
done a capable remix of this, and the poopy single by Front 242.  "Religion"
gets a dancey boost, but still retains a bit of the original growl, which will
appeal to industrial fans.  I'm not too happy with the "Mindstream" remix
which sounds two much like the Orbital remix with vocals mixed over the good
parts.

Summary: 7/10.  Sticks and rhythm and boom boom boom.  Good funkiness with a
bit of variety for good measure.  Worth the price for the "Unleashed in the
East" track alone.


ADSR: Obsession
Cargo Records/Floorshaker: FSP 002
Side A:
1  139	Obsession
Side B:
1  138	Pure Energy (Fire Mix)
2  136	Suboceana (1993 Remix)

Comments: Preying upon my weakness for female vocals, ADSR goes right for the
jugular in laying down their sound.  All three of these tracks use a breathy
sample in excellent ways, but tend to suffer from repetition.  The
instrumentation is done well, but the bass kick really gets boring the third
time around.  "Obsession" itself is a nice dark trancer, and although "Pure
Energy" and "Suboceana" are based on the same sample, they fit their names
well.

Summary: 7/10.  Skillful use of sampling, but lacking in form.


Narcosis - A Journey Through the Outs and Ins of Underground
Guerilla: GRCD 009
Out Disc One:
1  132	05:53 Emojonal: Silence of Water
2  135	07:05 Hole in One: Game From the Planet Onchet
3  135	07:08 DJ Hell: My Definition of House Music
4  131	08:39 Abfahrt: Come into my Life
5  127	06:14 Trance Induction: New Age Heartcore
6  136	06:09 Fix: Flash
In Disc Two:
1  110	05:35 Effective Force: Diamond Bullet
2  140	06:54 Morganistic: In The Shadow
3  120	09:10 Sandoz: White Darkness
4  130	06:22 Dave Angel: Brother From Jazz
5  115	14:59 Mystic Institute: Ob-Selon Mi-Mos (Global Communications Remix)

Comments: At first glance you'd think you had just purchased the latest from
the Third Mind label.  At first listen, you're almost sure of it.  Guerilla
has certainly taken a hard left turn with this compilation.  Dark, but not
hard, moody, but not dreary, these are works of power and force.  Even though
there is an obvious stain with the ultimate rip-off track, "My Definition of
House Music" and Abfahrt's vocals are cheese deluxe, the rest are stunning in
their timeless form.  "Game From the Planet Onchet" is quirky, bleepy, with a
good mix of spiraling sine waves and happy dolphins.  Sandoz shines with
"White Darkness", a turn of the page to classic Moog style electronics with a
rare use of lyricless male vocals to make things difficult.  Finally, be
prepared to be run over by Mystic Institute with a spacey, high- emotion track
that gives new meaning to the word "sweep".

Summary: 9/10.  Save for a pair of noodlers, this comp excites me to see
Guerilla is out of the progressive garage and looking around the planet.


Excursions in Ambience - The Second Orbit
Astralwerks: ASW AV6105-2
1  120	09:55 W.F.O.: No-One in the World (Edit)
2	08:52 Schizophrenia: Schizophrenia
3  120	08:42 Locust: Prospero
4  126	12:53 Maurizio: Ploy (Battersea Was an Island of Mud Mix)
5  133	05:29 The Grid: Crystal Clear (Clear, Like an Unmuddied Lake)
6  	08:34 Autocreation: Dark Smile
7  106	09:00 Megatonk: Belgium (Deep Space Filter Mix Edit)
8   95	11:20 Material: Mantra (Praying Mantra Mix Edit)

Comments: The second "Excursions in Ambience" from Astralwerks takes us on a
journey into the source, Wau! Mr. Modo.  All the tracks on this disc are from
the label or remixed by Orb.  It is really nice to have the three Orb remixes
of Maurizio, Grid, and Material in one place.  However, I would have rather
seen "Crystal Clear" absent than virtually cut in half with a fade-out.
Keiichi Suzuki's "Satellite Serenade" would have been much slicker in place of
the widely distributed Grid track.  Megatonk's "Belgium" is the bounciest
track on the disc, yet it is sadly edited with another apparent fade-out.  The
other two edits, W.F.O. and Material are done well, but of course, these are
awefully long "edits".  I especially like the W.F.O. track with its Karen
Carpenter samples used in a perfect manner.  The remaining three tracks by
Schizophrenia, Locust, and Autocreation make for dark ambient listening.
"Prospero" is the first track to remind me of the Biosphere "Microgravity"
album.

Summary: 8/10.  Sloppy edits aside, this is a terrific compilation of Wau!
Mr. Modo ambient work.  Things are really looking great for Astralwerks if
they keep digging up music like this for domestic release.


Apollo Compilation
Apollo/R&S: AMB 926 CD
1  133	08:14 Kinetic: Golden Girls (David Morley Remix)
2  117	07:26 Model 500: The Passage
3  125	08:20 David Morley: Evolution
4  	04:54 Biosphere: Cloudwalker
5  115 	04:51 Aphex Twin: X-Tal
6   83	10:30 Atlantis: Paradise (Part 1)
7  115	09:48 Electrotete: I Love You (Orb Remix)
8  142	07:22 David Morley: Calibration
9  112	09:27 Love Craft: Intelligent Universe
10 	06:03 Neuro: Mama (Justin London Mix)

Comments: Apollo seems to know just what my favorite kind of trance is.  Not
too hard n' fast, but not completely ambient as to fall asleep to.  Stir in
just the right amount of beat and rhythm and off I go.  This first comp is a
stellar representation of the label, starting off with the David Morley remix
of Kinetic, which is done so well it is a single in its own right.  David
Morley's other tracks show that this guy is definitely a rising star on the
scene with strong musicality and original ideas.  The Model 500 track is cool,
as is the brilliant Love Craft, along with the dated but strong releases from
Biosphere, Aphex Twin, and Atlantis.  Orb fans should note that the "I Love
You" remix is notably different from the clandestine b-side of "Satellite
Serenade", it is quite a bit cleaner with a stronger emphasis on the beat.
Which one I favor is hard to tell, I love them both.  The last remix of "Mama"
by Justin London is one of the most powerful beatless tracks I've laid ears
on.  It has to be heard to be believed.

Comments: 10/10.  Really a great collection of clean, strong, trance tracks.
R&S really does the compilation game well.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 08:52:55 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 08:52:47 -0700
Subject: I left my heart in San Francisco
Status: 

Hello!

What a weekend!

I left New Jersey Thursday after work, having seen Alan's mail about YSH 
needing a space.  When I changed planes in Dallas I called the YSH number and 
was saddened to learn the party was off . . . but in a way it was just as well 
for me since it meant I had some extra time to spend with Brian.  Anyway, I 
wish the Sisters' much luck in the future, and hopefully I'll catch them on my 
next trip out (at Thanksgiving).

I really wasn't anticipating the Orb show.  In fact, I had gone so far as to 
tell Brian I'd only go if he bought my ticket . . . upon arriving at the 
Warfield I learned that all under 21's were going to be kicked out at 2.00 am.  
Not being from San Francisco, I had totally forgotten about the STUPID caberet 
rules, and so had not bothered to bring any ID with me since I'd had no plans 
to drive or drink alcoholic beverages.  

When I got to the door and was asked for ID, I said to the guy "look, I know 
you're just doing your job, but I'm 28 but I can't prove it because I left my 
ID at my boyfriend's house.  I just flew in last night from New York and we 
don't have any under-21 rules there so it just didn't ocurr to me to bring it 
with me tonight."  The guy said "well, can you go back to your boyfriend's and 
get it?"  To which I replied "no, he lives in Berkeley," and I turned to walk 
inside.  I was VERY suprised to feel him slip a wrist band on me as I was 
moving.  This made me happy, but it doesn't say much for the Warfield's 
enforcement of the laws -- well, maybe it indicates that some of the people who 
work there also agree that the current law needs to be changed.

Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed the Orb show.  The lights were the most amazing I 
have ever seen -- and (giggle) I just realized that my "custom-mixed" colors on 
my xterminal at work are about the same shades of green and purple used in the 
show!  I was very pleased to note that the music was quite mixed up compared to 
all the album, single, and alternate versions I have heard.  This is a good 
example of doing techno "live" in my opinion.

The DJ right after the Orb was GREAT.  I was sitting in the balcony watching 
people dance like MAD to TECHNO -- that 130 bpm and higher electronic stuff -- 
and then one of my recent favorites (which I played to death when I was out in 
August) came on.  I started thinking "oh my god oh my god I can't believe I'm 
hearing "Meltdown" at such a big party in San Francisco" and so I rushed 
downstairs to join in.  So who was this DJ?  Was it Lewis who travels with the 
Orb?  Was it Dutch? Or am I just completely confused (which is possible 
considering what the Orb had done to my brain)?

Saturday was pleasant, most of it was spent either sleeping, practicing mixing, 
or listening to Tamara practice.  After a brief stop at Steve's to wish him a 
happy birthday, we headed out to Alameda for Liquid Air.

I was a bit alarmed to see that the parking was completely out in the open,
i.e. a cop or nosey person coming by would immediately notice a bunch of cars 
parked at the edge of the industrial park.  We walked up into the hills and 
decided the spot was beautiful, and when the truck arrived we started unloading 
and trucking the gear up the hill.  We didn't even have the first load halfway 
up the hill when a police car arrived.  We kept going up the hill in the hopes 
that they would let us go on, but there was no joy in Alameda that evening.  
So, we wheeled everthing back downhill and reloaded the truck and decided to go 
to the backup space in Freemont.

As soon as we got to the end of Cushing Parkway and saw the dirt/gravel road 
going off into nowhere, I knew we had found the perfect bust-free spot.  We 
were way off in the salt flats, and as long as it was dark we were invisible.  
And to make matters even better, there was a McDonalds' right by the 880 so I 
knew I'd be able to get breakfast in the morning.

The truck arrived and we got set up and Tamara put down her first record at 
about 1.35 am.  Her set was funky and bouncey, and shortly the party vibe 
became strong.  Chris, a non-net acid DJ Bryce discovered, followed, but I 
spent most of his set napping in Brian's truck because I was still rather dead 
from the Orb the night before.  I was kind of cold when I got started, and 
although I was playing some of my favorite old and new tracks, I just wasn't 
mixing very well and so wasn't very happy with myself.  I guess I just put 
myself under a lot of pressure to perform.  I know Liquid Air is a very "safe" 
environment for new DJs, but still I just really wanted to be "on" for everyone,
especially since my preactice sessions had been going very well.

Jon D. came after me and picked the absolute perfect track to follow my last 
one -- our music choices are generally very different, especially speed-wise, 
but his first record had this really great drony buzz that really complemented 
the last thing I played.  All through the night meteors were seen, and about 
this time Bryce broke out some crossaints to fuel my tired body.  Tamara's 
second set was really neat -- she looked like she was having SO much fun and 
put on all kinds of different records.  I really loved some of her more trancy 
choices.  The Michael Jackson thing was cutely cheezy, not annoying at all.  
Tamara left around 6.30 so she could get some sleep in before driving back to 
Los Angeles, so I took over again and played the 10 slowest records I own :-)  
My goal was to keep the music going until sunrise, and to make sure something 
happy was playing just as the sun broke over the hills.  Around 7.00 or so a 
police car showed up.  I was a bit alarmed but just kept going while Bryce 
talked to the officer.  The officer asked what we were doing, and Bryce told 
him "just listening to music and dancing" to which the officer replied "humm, 
I've never seen anything like this before."  He left, and just as my last slow 
happy record got going (DJ Hell's "My Definition of House Music") the sun rose 
from behind the mountains.  It was so wonderful and beautiful to see it come up,
and to see people smiling and dancing to happy music, that it totally made up 
for my earlier troubles with nerves and the cold.  I want to thank everyone who
was there and shared that perfect moment with me.

Most of all I want to thank Bryce for organizing the party, Ethan for trusting 
us with the sound system, and to the crew who loaded, unloaded, reloaded, 
unloaded, repacked, and ultimately put away the sound gear.

See you all around Thanksgiving . . . I'm really getting to like it a LOT out 
there and I hope that it won't be long before I am there permanently.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 09:30:13 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 09:30:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Deep Doubts 
Status: 

> House in the great grandfather of all modern "rave" dance music, from
> garage, through tehcno to gabba.  So it is sometimes used as an...

What's "gabba"?

Have the Ramones gone techno? :-) Gabba gabba hey!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 09:39:14 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 17:38:40 BST
Subject: Re: Deep Doubts 
Status: 


  Niels> What's "gabba"?

Gabba house (or gabber house).... (pronounced garber).

It's another name for Roterdam hardcore.  Really harsh fast techno,
pretty industrial sounding.

[The term is dutch, but i'm unsure of the origin, becaue it's a
non-word....  i wonder whether it equates to "gaga" -- a non word
uttered by babies, and by extension used coloquially to mean "mad"....
Technohead from DJ magazine claims there's a genre of techno called
"fuckin' mental".  I think that just about sums up gabba....]


	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 09:49:06 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 10:49:20 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: I left my heart in San Francisco
Status: 

Laura writes:

> The DJ right after the Orb was GREAT.
> So who was this DJ?  Was it Lewis who travels with the 
> Orb?  Was it Dutch? Or am I just completely confused (which is possible 
> considering what the Orb had done to my brain)?

No, it was Lewis.  Lewis played before and after The Orb.  He's also an
integral part of System 7.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 10:08:36 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 10:11:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Deep Doubts
Status: 

At  9:30 AM 10/19/93 -0700, Niels P. Mayer wrote:

>Have the Ramones gone techno? :-) Gabba gabba hey!
>

I think there ar possibilities there-

"Sheena is- a rave-raver Shee-ee-ee-na is a rave-raver, sheena a is a
rave-raver, no-oo-oo-oo-ow!"

or maybe 'Now I wanna sniff some glue' at 145 bpm... hm... Micheal W, you
listenin'? :)


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 10:13:32 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 10:12:44 PDT
Subject: Re: Dancing and Listening
Status: 

>   Western music is the transition of music from the dance floor to the
>   concert hall. It happened in the time of Louis XIV, it happened with the
>   waltz, it happened with jazz, it even happened at the Fillmore and Winterland
>   with rock: at first, the music is made to dance to. Then, after a while,
>   more and more people just sit or stand it out and listen.

    Dancing is participation.
    Western society has increasingly become a society of spectators.

>   Charlie Mingus, the great jazz bassist, used to say "You can't listen
>   and dance at the same time. So sit down, shut up, don't make noises,
>   and listen to our music!"

    This seems like a very, very odd thing for him to say.
    As a musician, he certainly was able to listen and move with
    the music and "make noises" at the same time,
    otherwise he could only have played solo.

    I can only listen fully to music if I move with it.
    Otherwise my mind wanders.

>   I wonder if the same could happen to techno and/or house? 
>   If you were composing music primarily to be listened to, would you tend
>   to make it more complex than if you were making it solely to danced to?

    You don't have to make it *solely* to be danced to.
    Go ahead and make it more complex.
    I'll dance to it anyway!

                &andy



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 10:17:24 1993
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 10:17:16 -0700
Subject: ~Re: Deep Doubts
Status: 

Niels asks:

>What's "gabba"?
>
>Have the Ramones gone techno? :-) Gabba gabba hey!

In a way,  yes.  Imagine applying the Ramones' blinding speed, three
chord style, and rapid-fire lyrics to techno and you have a rough
approximation of "gabber haus" which is hardcore techno for the 
jock-types.  It's fast, it's silly, and when you're in the mood for
a guy screaming in dutch over a distored 909 it's great.

Brian hates the stuff.  I contend that there actually are a few
good gabber records out there . . . humm, maybe next time I'm in
San Francisco I'll shake off my fear of pushing the bpms too high
and go for it.  (Jo, you'd better be there for it, you might be the
only one dancing).

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 11:04:49 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 11:05:17 PDT
Subject: Re: Deep Doubts
Status: 

Healthier, More Manageable Hair sez:
> 
> At  9:30 AM 10/19/93 -0700, Niels P. Mayer wrote:
> 
> >Have the Ramones gone techno? :-) Gabba gabba hey!
> >
> 
> I think there ar possibilities there-
> 
> "Sheena is- a rave-raver Shee-ee-ee-na is a rave-raver, sheena a is a
> rave-raver, no-oo-oo-oo-ow!"
> 

No way.  Teenage Lobotomy would be it! 

"Nitrous did a job on me..."

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

-H-


-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
                  nature doesn't make foolish laws
...........................................................................

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 12:58:47 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Ben Wing)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 12:58:41 -0700
Subject: Diamanda Galas
Status: 

Also of note: Diamanda Galas is coming to the Warfield sometime in early
November.

ben

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 13:13:23 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 13:13:48 PDT
Subject: Re: ~Re: Deep Doubts
Status: 

Laura La Gassa said:
> and go for it.  (Jo, you'd better be there for it, you might be the
> only one dancing).
> 
	Well, you never know-- if I'm not sleeping when you're playing
it.. :-)

-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 14:28:17 1993
From: Seth L Sanders <feste@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Date: 	Tue, 19 Oct 1993 17:26:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Orb Be in U
Status: 

for some reason I feel like attacking something after reading this. maybe it's
because my parents used to attack my nipples to a car battery and make me
read MRR scene reports at the same time.


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 14:52:24 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 14:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Liquid Air
Status: 


	Hi all,
I'm very sorry to all those whom I told that I would be there.  Things
came up and it just didn't work out :(  Sounds like it went really well,
and I'm waiting for the next one!
 
Peace,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 14:58:54 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 14:09:13 -0800
Subject: Re: Diamanda Galas
Status: 

At 12:58 PM 10/19/93 -0700, Ben Wing wrote:
>Also of note: Diamanda Galas is coming to the Warfield sometime in early
>November.
>
>ben


Wow. I think this is the first act that has come sinse I have been in SF
that will prompt me to pay the Warfield's cover. Diamanda is _definitely_
worth $20 to see.


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 16:28:05 1993
From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 16:03:42 PDT
Subject: Mingus
Status: 


>>   Charlie Mingus, the great jazz bassist, used to say "You can't listen
>>   and dance at the same time. So sit down, shut up, don't make noises,
>>   and listen to our music!"

>    This seems like a very, very odd thing for him to say.
>    As a musician, he certainly was able to listen and move with
>    the music and "make noises" at the same time,
>    otherwise he could only have played solo.
>    I can only listen fully to music if I move with it.
>    Otherwise my mind wanders.
>                &andy

So maybe my mind is wandering also, but I think alot of movement a musician
makes while jamming (especially in jazz) is to sorta keep track of stuff
in his head - other instruments or ideas that work and are inspired by
what is happening around him - in his own head at least he gets to play
more than one instrument.  And I don't mean to suggest that it is some
how really logical or calculated.  It is more organic than that.  
More spontaneous.

I think my point here is that the movements a musician makes are different
than the moves a casual/social dancer makes.  The musician is moving as part
of a creation experience and the dancer's situation is more interpretive.
Both are cool, but I think different.  So I don't buy your theory.

I think dancing can be distracting, like driving, or reading, or whatever
Listen with everything you have got.  Listen for something that does not
bore you to fucking tears. Focus.  Listen for something really cool.
I don't think it was such an odd thing to say.
Charlie Mingus will do you right.

Here's why -  there is so much crap music around that you've heard
3000 times as some other song or songs that it is easy to get used
to listening carelessly.  You know what is coming next.  You know the whole
damn song.  It's like you become numb to all the garbage you 
normally hear and you forget that some music deserves more attention.

For example, I was listening to an old John Lee Hooker cd the other
day (pretty non-techno - old blues) and for the first time 
I noticed his foot tapping on some of the really stripped down songs.
It blew me away.  He tapped his foot really well.
Then I started thinking about him and how he had to be recorded on a
stool on a wood floor.  What kind of wood floor did he prefer? 
His foot was maybe a whole band in his head.  It was amazing.
That kind of experience is to me the opposite of the tranced out listening
experience that dancing can help with.  

I don't want to say either is better.
I just think *that* is the kind of listening Charlie Mingus was
talkin about.

Dave


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 17:36:34 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 10:50:24 PDT
Subject: Re:  I left my heart in San Francisco
Status: 



Jon D. came after me and picked the absolute perfect track to follow my last 
one -- our music choices are generally very different, especially speed-wise, 
but his first record had this really great drony buzz that really complemented 
the last thing I played.
-------

b4 I forget, that was an excellent set Jon, I think I heard about 1/2 of
it before driving safety forced me to split or sleep there.  There was
a sorta hip hop-sounding cut somewhere like 2nd to 5th tune that rocked
hard, if you can tell by this damaged description, I'd love to know what
it was (tho I admit this ain't much to go on)...thoroughly BUMPIN, dude,
thanks...

*

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 17:36:46 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 17:37:21 -0700
Subject: Faster bpm
Status: 

>maybe next time I'm in
>San Francisco I'll shake off my fear of pushing the bpms too high
>and go for it.  (Jo, you'd better be there for it, you might be the
>only one dancing).

Now your're talkin....  I can hardly wait  :-)


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 18:02:36 1993
From: Mark Baldwin <Mark_Baldwin@qmgate.Radius.COM>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 18:01:03 +0000
Subject: RE>Deep Doubts
Status: 

another factor that might confuse some is the fact that
the term hardcore gets used as an synonym of techno, and
(as someone already mentioned) hawdcoah has different
meanings to different people.  a "hardcore rave" in belgium
is most definitely going to feature different music than
it's counterpart in s.f. 

the difference could be extreme, too.  such as: in sf, brian
hosts a hardcore party (just an example ;-) and the music
has elements of very fast hip-hop, whereas in belgium, the
music would sound like what we californians might call 
industrial-dance, or ebm.

i honestly think that techno/ambient/and industrial have a
lot more in common with each other than many seensters are
willing to admit.

-mARK. (Unretouched Photos Prove It)
--------------------------------------
Date: 10/19/93 8:00 AM
To: Mark Baldwin
From: jdrukman%dlsun87 
>Every time I think I have a working definition of the differences between 
>house and techno, somebody throws a wrench in it :).  I thought that 
>house was '70s disco based while techno was the more "electronic" stuff.  
>Anybody have a better working definition?

that's actually not bad.  house definitely had its roots in the
chicago gay/disco scene - nowadays you've got a few major variants but
they're all based on that swing beat.  techno comes from detroit and
started with really minimal dark electronic stuff like cybotron and
mayday - see the recent Transmat label compilation for a quick primer.

the main thing that seems to confuse people is house music vs the
house scene.  the "scene" includes tons of different styles of music -
nowadays you've got garage house, hardtrance, acid, techno, acid jazz
and more on the dance floor.  ambient house is music for chill-out
rooms, and you might find these under the same roof with screaming
pumped-up dance floors.  so ambient in the sense of atmospheric,
relaxing, whatever and house in the sense of "part of the house
scene."  but definitely not connected to house music...


Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.
com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 17:25:14 PDT
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
To: sfraves@techno.stanford.edu, nm-list@reef.cis.ufl.edu
In-Reply-To: Peter Werner's message of Mon, 18 Oct 1993 16:57:17 -0700 (PDT) <
Pine.3.87.9310181617.A10445-0100000@stein2.u.washington.edu>
Subject: Deep Doubts
Reply-To: jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com





From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 19 19:12:02 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 18:35:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Mingus
Status: 




On Tue, 19 Oct 1993, David Alves wrote:

> So maybe my mind is wandering also, but I think alot of movement a musician
> makes while jamming (especially in jazz) is to sorta keep track of stuff
> in his head - other instruments or ideas that work and are inspired by
> what is happening around him - in his own head at least he gets to play
> more than one instrument.

I just started taking an afro-latin drumming class and I have found that
when I am playing an instrument I dance differently than when I am just
dancing or listening.  A group of about ten people all play at the same
time but on different bells or drums and a different rhythum.  Moving
seems to keep everything organized in my head and I can stay on the beat and
still play my part.  If I don't move around or if I dance too "hard" then I
tend to get lost in all the other instruments and rhythums.  I can still
trance out though with out screwing up.  You just get into the biggest groove
and are entangled in all the sounds.  Everything just flows together into
one.

> 
> I think my point here is that the movements a musician makes are different
> than the moves a casual/social dancer makes.  The musician is moving as part
> of a creation experience and the dancer's situation is more interpretive.
>

The musician's movements are organizing and controlling the beats almost,
atleast in his mind, while a dancer's movements are flowing with the beats.
The musician knows whats coming next and the dancer is just following what
the musician has created.  I guess I could say the musicians moves are much
more structured and purposeful.

Later 
G



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 00:37:02 1993
From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 0:37:36 PDT
Subject: Help Me With My History!
Status: 


Hello everyone,

I hope no one minds me soliciting the lists but I thought these were the 
perfect places to find subjects for...

My history paper on oral histories of the 1960's!!

So, what I am asking for is:

-two volunteers who lived through all of the 1960's to participate in an 
interview (probably via e-mail but maybe by telephone) where I will ask you
all kinds of questions about your life in the 1960's and your perceptions of
the era...

I am particularly interested in talking to Will Penna and/or Arthur Chandler 
since I know you are both very well-versed in history (plus I got the chance
to attend Arthur's lecture on the Haight-Ashbury/Rave eras and found them
extremely interesting) but any volunteers would be greatly appreciated.

Please respond via private e-mail.

Thanks!!

Be famous for 15 minutes (or six pages...)

:)


-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
                                Tamara Palmer
                              trance@netcom.com
                   Les beats sont hypnotiques et hallucinants
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
-- 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 07:11:15 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 7:11:51 PDT
Subject: Player Moves and Dancer Moves
Status: 

> 
> On Tue, 19 Oct 1993, David Alves wrote:
> > 
> > I think my point here is that the movements a musician makes are different
> > than the moves a casual/social dancer makes.  The musician is moving as part
> > of a creation experience and the dancer's situation is more interpretive.
> >
> 
> To which Gioni Pasquinelli wrote:
> The musician's movements are organizing and controlling the beats almost,
> atleast in his mind, while a dancer's movements are flowing with the beats.
> The musician knows whats coming next and the dancer is just following what
> the musician has created.  I guess I could say the musicians moves are much
> more structured and purposeful.
> 

 This only applies to the first time a dancer hears a piece of music. On later
playings , if the dancer has a decent enough memory , the dancer can also
anticipate the changes in the music , and use creative expression with the
body in concert with the music. Informed interpretation and expression 
can be a creative act also , as much as the creation of music.

 When I dance at raves , I like to do play anticipation games with the music.
A lot of the dramatic beatless passages in rave dance music all follow the
same general unwritten rules of duration , dramatic buildup , and other
factors. It's always neat to second-guess the music! 

 Of course , when I dance at a rave , I hope that people aren't watching
me or STARING at me while I'm dancing. I try to keep self-concioussness at
bay , and try to dance for myself , as opposed to what my dancing might
look like to others . I still get self-conciouss while dancing , tho'.

	Larry "Don't:Look At Me!" Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 09:38:52 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 09:36:13 PDT
Subject:  I left my heart in San Francisco
Status: 

Laura La Gassa writeth:

>Jon D. came after me and picked the absolute perfect track to follow
>my last one -- our music choices are generally very different,
>especially speed-wise, but his first record had this really great
>drony buzz that really complemented the last thing I played.

geez, how quickly they forget... that "drony buzz" was electric guitar
feedback!

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 10:13:10 1993
From: andy@wco.ftp.com  (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 10:12:19 PDT
Subject: Re: Mingus
Status: 

>>> Charlie Mingus...used to say "You can't listen and dance at the same time...

>>  As a musician, he certainly was able to listen and move with
>>  the music and "make noises" at the same time...
>>  I can only listen fully to music if I move with it.
>>  Otherwise my mind wanders.

>   So maybe my mind is wandering also, but I think alot of movement a musician
>   makes while jamming (especially in jazz) is to sorta keep track of stuff
>   in his head - other instruments or ideas that work and are inspired by
>   what is happening around him - in his own head at least he gets to play
>   more than one instrument.  And I don't mean to suggest that it is some
>   how really logical or calculated.  It is more organic than that.  
>   More spontaneous.
>   
>   I think my point here is that the movements a musician makes are different
>   than the moves a casual/social dancer makes.  The musician is moving as part
>   of a creation experience and the dancer's situation is more interpretive.

    But hardly what I'd call casual.    

>   I think dancing can be distracting, like driving, or reading...

    Because driving or reading are completely unrelated to the music.
    Dancing, for me, is climbing into the music and exploring it.
    Particularly if I'm dancing to something that I've never heard
    before, and the more complex it is the better.  I don't just dance
    to the beat, I try to dance to *all* of the music.

>   Listen with everything you have got.

    When I'm dancing I do exactly that.  I listen with my whole body and mind.

>   Focus.

    There is a widely-held belief that to really focus, you must be perfectly
    still.  Most forms of meditation teach you to do it that way, you're told
    to be still and listen when in school, etc. etc..  This obviously works
    for a lot of people.  I've tried it.  It doesn't work for me.  Motion does.

>   I don't want to say either is better.
>   I just think *that* is the kind of listening Charlie Mingus was
>   talkin about.

    I think that's the kind of listening that I do, when the music is good
    enough.  (I like jazz too, by the way, and have been listening to it,
    [and dancing to it] long before there was such a thing as techno).
    
    This is a fascinating discussion.

                                        &andy



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 10:38:55 1993
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 10:38:49 -0700
Subject: Re:  I left my heart in San Francisco
Status: 

Jon informs:

>geez, how quickly they forget... that "drony buzz" was electric guitar
>feedback!

"electric guitar?"

What's that?

Wait . . . I *think* I recall last hearing one in about 1990, when I saw
Lush (no not the Orbital thing, the BAND) :-)

Laura (taking my head out of the bass bin)

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 11:07:00 1993
From: Arthur Chandler <arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 11:04:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Mingus and More
Status: 


  The best way to experience music is to PLAY IT -- to have is course
through your fingers and up through your lungs (I'm a flutist), to feel
yourself in sync and in pitch with the people you're playing with and the
people you're playing for.
 But for listening -- surely there is no "best way" to get into the music.
It can be solitary and almost studious -- that's the way I listen to Bach
fugues. Or it can be exuberant and a "throw your hands up in the air" type
of experience. Some folks like to dance to techno. I like to juggle to it.
But I also like to listen to house and techno while I'm conversing with
folks Real Time on the NET. And -- is this just my generation? -- I like
some techno for driving the car. Yeah! The road can have a rhythm, and if
you can find the right music to go with navigating it, then that's a
musical trip too.
  Does anyone else out here do stuff other than dancing while you're
listening to techno -- listening not as a distraction, but as an energizer
and mood-setter for the activity?





From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 11:15:29 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 11:15:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Mingus
Status: 

On Oct 20, 10:12am, Andy proclaimed:
} >   I think dancing can be distracting, like driving, or reading...
}   Because driving or reading are completely unrelated to the music.
}   Dancing, for me, is climbing into the music and exploring it.
}   Particularly if I'm dancing to something that I've never heard
}   before, and the more complex it is the better.  I don't just dance
}   to the beat, I try to dance to *all* of the music.

Actually, my *ideal* listening environ, where I can concentrate and
feel the music MOST, is playing video games, with the headphones on.
Being alone in a car comes a close second.  Both activities allow me
to put certain cerebral activities on auto-pilot and devote 100% of my
concentration power on the music (better make that, driving down the 5
freeway :) Dance is a not-too-distant third, but it seems to be hard
for me to keep up sometimes; I feel every part of my body when I'm
dancing and a lot of my concentration energy gets focused on that,
plus I'm also constantly concerned about the people I brought or know
at the party having a good time that I neglect myself.  Certain
chemicals can change this, of course; but those bring a whole
different mindset along with them anyways.

Why video games?  I dunno... it especially works with the very
symbolic ones like tetris or pong... maybe it's that my left brain 
needs something to do so my right brain can enjoy the music :)

	Brian


----------------------------------------------------------------------
    But DARE executive director Glenn Levant calls the studies [which
showed Drug Abuse Resistance Education to be mostly ineffective]
flawed and not comprehensive: "Scientists, will tell you bumble bees
can't fly, but we know they can."


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 11:17:18 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 19:18:11 BST
Subject: Re: Mingus and More
Status: 


  Arthur> And -- is this just my generation? -- I like some techno for
  Arthur> driving the car.

In my experience, most ravers listen to techno in the car.  Or at
pretty much *any* other time, for that matter...

Even sitting at home chilling after a hard night's raving, listening
to techno (rather than ambient)

I think if you like a particular genre of music, you don't tend to
restrict when you listen to it, but can find it appropriate in pretty
much any situation.  I would claim this is universal, and not specific
to techno.


	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 11:27:00 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 11:27:35 PDT
Subject: Indoor South Bay Lunch ?
Status: 


 Considering the season of the year , maybe it's time to move the South
Bay lunch indoors. How do you folks feel about it?

 Since this is short notice , how about having tommorrow's lunch at a 
restaurant instead of someone's house? Can someone recommend a 
place in Palo Alto ( or somewhere else? )?

		Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com

	
-- 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 11:41:55 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 14:35:48 CST
Subject: Re: Mingus and More
Status: 

On Wed, 20 Oct 1993 11:04:39 -0700 (PD, Arthur Chandler wrote:

>  Does anyone else out here do stuff other than dancing while you're
>listening to techno -- listening not as a distraction, but as an energizer
>and mood-setter for the activity?

HEY kidz...this is where i jump in...as a martial artist training can be 
exceptionally strenuous...it requires a great deal of concentration and 
energy...and the thought of trying to dredge up that much energy (it is 
there, even when it doesn't feel like it) can almost deter me from actually 
training.  

BUT...punching in techno motivates the hell out of me...the music takes me 
away and i ride the groove...ignorant of my energy levels...and you can't 
train slowly to something thats infusing your system with digitized 
adrenaline at 140bmp+...you end up matching your tempo of training to the 
tempo of the music...the only drawback is when I stop training and stop the 
music...I'm usually exceptionally drained...like removing a turbo booster 
so you can push the car home :)

I also jam my ass off when I write code at work...MAJOR motivator.

peace.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<<GOLDEN BOY.CYBERTRIBE>>                             deb9@pop.cwru.edu
              

             "Elvis has left the building...permanently"
                                                        

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 12:31:53 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 12:31:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Mingus and More
Status: 




>  Does anyone else out here do stuff other than dancing while you're
>listening to techno -- listening not as a distraction, but as an energizer
>and mood-setter for the activity?

My two cents:

I love to listen to techno while riding the stationary bike at the 
gym or the stairmaster, but it is especially motivating while lifting 
weights.  I also have  a friend that teaches aerobics. She coordinates 
some of her steps to certain techno songs. It really is motivating.



******


Just a reminder that Motion is at FX tonite in downtown San Jose. 



See ya all there, 





vivianm



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 12:34:18 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 11:28:37 PDT
Subject: Mingus and More
Status: 

arthur chandler writes:

>  The best way to experience music is to PLAY IT -- to have is course
>through your fingers and up through your lungs (I'm a flutist), to feel
>yourself in sync and in pitch with the people you're playing with and the
>people you're playing for.

DJ'ing is better.  Having been in my share of bands, I find that
usually I'm too busy trying to concentrate on playing to actually
enjoy the experience.

>  Does anyone else out here do stuff other than dancing while you're
>listening to techno -- listening not as a distraction, but as an energizer
>and mood-setter for the activity?

geez, i do *everything* with techno in the background these days...

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 12:52:22 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 12:51:12 PDT
Subject: Re: Mingus
Status: 

Brian Behlendorf sez:
> 
> Actually, my *ideal* listening environ, where I can concentrate and
> feel the music MOST, is playing video games, with the headphones on.


YES!  I'm not alone. :-)

FYI, Twitch CD #4 is _perfect_ for playing Hellcats over the Pacific. 
Mike & co. should try for some sweet defense contract :-)


-H-



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 13:11:46 1993
From: Rishad J. Quazi <rquazi@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 16:11:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Mingus (fwd)
Status: 


> Why video games?  I dunno... it especially works with the very
> symbolic ones like tetris or pong... maybe it's that my left brain 
> needs something to do so my right brain can enjoy the music :)
> 
> 	Brian
> 

Me too! i love playing LHX or Wolf3D with some mean hardtrance
in the back. Painting compupix or vraving is also good. As for
coding, this is especially effective also.

	O         ~    ~
	 o    ~        ~               ~
	  .   _/,_        ~         ~      ~
	   . /o...\__//        FiSH ~ Rishad J. Quazi
	     \_'__/``\`      rquazi@csws1.ic.sunysb.edu
	~      \`          RQUAZI@SBCCVM.BITNET
	   ~          .     ~    ~               ~  ~
	   \/  .  .     .   \ \/        .      .
	____\____._..___.____\/_______._

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 14:17:55 1993
From: JUMP IN THE FIRE <grigsby@agames.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 11:49:32 PDT
Subject: dancing
Status: 


I can only dance to music inasmuch as I know beforehand or assume enough 
about the rhythm to flow with it and not feel as though I'm being dragged
along behind it.

Techno/house/funk gives you that straight 4 no matter what happens, so
I can let the bass spin me around without thinking on any level about
losing the beat even if I have never heard the tune before, which is
most of the time.

Jazz is harder -- much of it is straight rhythm but this is not always
true.  Often it's too fast for me to move in a familiar way, so I have
to know the music better in order to find a way that I can move inside
it -- which may mean just tapping my feet or nodding my head.

Classical is the hardest -- the rhythm almost never settles, so you
almost have to choreograph unless you know the piece very well.  Too
much effort for me.  Some people enjoy dancing as a rigorous
intellectual exercise; I enjoy it as "fun with my body" or a trance
state.

Given all this, I don't think rAvE t00nz should be either simpler or
more complex.  If those two measures and a break move me for six
minutes, that's all I need.  If the tone slowly modulates over time
with twenty different undercurrents swirling around the beat and that
moves me, that's great too, but fast cuts are no substitute for a good
groove.

// g

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 14:25:05 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 14:20:09 PDT
Subject: nexsys.net is down
Status: 



	The 1 Gig on Nexsys died sometime yesterday so it is down
	until further notice.  if you need to reach me via
	e-mail send all e-mail to geoffw@internex.net

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 14:59:59 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 20 Oct 1993 14:58:56 -0700
Subject: musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 


jdrukman says:

>DJ'ing is better.  Having been in my share of bands, I find that i'm
>usually too busy trying to concentrate on playing to actually 
>enjoy the experience.

Sheesh!  that probably holds true for garage level musicianship or          
equivilent, but is shear crap for true musicians.  Once you can play well   
enough that the music is coming thru you without much thought, or any       
thought, the level of enjoyment is a least the same as DJ'ing, if not
infinitely greater.

without dissing DJ'ing, or its gift of joy & exstasy to so many, i find it
hard to believe anyone would really think this....unless they just didn't
want to, or couldn't, make the tremendous effort necessary to reach that
stage of proficiency, a la Mingus, that true professionals reach rather
easily.

alpha

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 15:29:43 1993
From: Charles Blair <chas@stax.lib.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 17:30:50 -0500
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing 
Status: 

>> i find it
>> hard to believe anyone would really think this....unless they just didn't
>> want to, or couldn't, make the tremendous effort necessary to reach that
>> stage of proficiency, a la Mingus, that true professionals reach rather
>> easily.

I find it a bit odd, also. Whether it's easy to reach or not (there
seems to be a contradiction between "tremendous effort ... a la
Mingus" and "true professionals reach [it] rather easily," unless it
means that true professionals reach it rather easily on stage once
they've made the tremendous effort to achieve proficiency over the
years), I'm fascinated by the statement of at least one well-known
musician in print recently that he's experienced another (non-human)
presence on stage with him, the "ghostly other." What a trip.


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 16:13:50 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 19:13:44 EDT
Subject: musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 

Randy Tinkerman writes:

 > Sheesh!  that probably holds true for garage level musicianship or          
 > equivilent, but is shear crap for true musicians.  Once you can play well   
 > enough that the music is coming thru you without much thought, or any       
 > thought, the level of enjoyment is a least the same as DJ'ing, if not
 > infinitely greater.
 > 
 > without dissing DJ'ing, or its gift of joy & exstasy to so many, i find it
 > hard to believe anyone would really think this....unless they just didn't
 > want to, or couldn't, make the tremendous effort necessary to reach that
 > stage of proficiency, a la Mingus, that true professionals reach rather
 > easily.

It may be true for you, but it is not true for everyone. Either that,
or my musician and DJ friends are lying :).

I've known quite a few very good musicians and I'm getting to know
quite a few DJs. With one or two exceptions, the DJs are having a
whole lot more fun.

Just because something is intrinsically more difficult does not
automatically make it more rewarding. Many of my musician friends
would rather have some killer sex than a killer jam session.

This reminds me of: You might ask if computers make creating music
easy, will the music be better or worse. Most people shoot from the
hip and say "worse".  But who knows, it might be better. Some
incredibly creative people who don't want to study an instrument for 7
years might be enabled to bring us some wonderful stuff.

Finally, I think DJing is a tremendously creative process. You're
taking thousands of bits of sound, and putting them together to create
a spontansous experience. The mechanics are easily learned, but the
creativity and expression are what make it.

Sean

(If you want dues, consider the hours and money a DJ spends getting
good music.)

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 16:31:26 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 16:29:36 PDT
Subject: musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 

alpha says:

>jdrukman says:
>
>>DJ'ing is better.  Having been in my share of bands, I find that i'm
>>usually too busy trying to concentrate on playing to actually 
>>enjoy the experience.
>
>Sheesh!  that probably holds true for garage level musicianship or          
>equivilent, but is shear crap for true musicians.  Once you can play well   
>enough that the music is coming thru you without much thought, or any       
>thought, the level of enjoyment is a least the same as DJ'ing, if not
>infinitely greater.

interesting you should mention the "coming thru you without much
thought" - this is what used to be referred to as The Muse.  i never
had The Muse speaking through me when I was in my multitude of bands.
i have heard The Muse while writing music and DJing though.  it's a
very strange trance state where "i" takes a vacation and something
else is working in its place.

as for any qualitative difference between muse-influenced DJ'ing,
composing or performing... i dunno bout that one.  i think you just
wanted to take a cheap shot at me.  good thing i'm too mature to sink
to your level of baiting.

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 16:51:39 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 16:52:01 PDT
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing\
Status: 

Randy Tinkerman said:
> 
> 
> jdrukman says:
> 
> >DJ'ing is better.  Having been in my share of bands, I find that i'm
> >usually too busy trying to concentrate on playing to actually 
> >enjoy the experience.
> 
> Sheesh!  that probably holds true for garage level musicianship or          
> equivilent, but is shear crap for true musicians.  Once you can play well   
> enough that the music is coming thru you without much thought, or any       
> thought, the level of enjoyment is a least the same as DJ'ing, if not
> infinitely greater.
> 
	I think this hold true for drumming-- even amatuer-level. When
I see a drum circle, and I have my drum with me, it is WONDERFUL,
because I can join the experience, and be *INSIDE* the music.
Wonderful. If I haven't my drum, I either scrounge for one, or it's
not as much fun. (Yes, it's great, but not as wonderful as actually
being within and an active part instead of just dancing and having
themusic outside of me.

-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 17:42:40 1993
From: "Barry Alexander" <barryale@symantec.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 17:40:10 pst
Subject: Re[2]: Mingus and More
Status: 


>
>  Does anyone else out here do stuff other than dancing while you're
>listening to techno -- listening not as a distraction, but as an energizer
>and mood-setter for the activity?
>
    i bring mix tapes to the place where i work out and sweat to them.  the
    music really makes for an energetic work out.  i also play techno while
    at work (programming).

    ambient stuff is great for driving especially on long country back roads
    or desolate early morning citi streets.

    barry





From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 18:02:39 1993
From: phred@well.sf.ca.us (Fred Heutte)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 18:02:30 -0700
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 

Uh, Randy, isn't it *just possible* that some difference of opinion
based on real personal experience might be valid here?

If there is one thing I don't want flooding my mailbox this week,
it
s a debate about whether DJing or playing an instrument is a more
valid/musical/enjoyable/distracting/enlightening experience.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 18:37:47 1993
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Wed, 20 Oct 1993 18:37:15 -0700
Subject: Re:  musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 


It seems to me that if DJing works best for Jon so be it.
Why should that have any bearing on ones ability as a musician
or on achieving musicianship whether in the garage or the
concert hall? With all due respect to those who play instruments
(why some of my best friends play instruments :-) ;-) &+
these days a musician doesn't have to play an instrument,
visual artists don't need to bother with brushs or learning
to draw to create terrific work. I'm musicaly naive but my
understanding of musicianship is that it is a level to be
achieved, to some it may come easily others will have to work
hard and that it can vary from night to night for everyone.           

Gil

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 18:41:35 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 18:42:05 PDT
Subject: Re: Indoor South Bay Lunch ?
Status: 


I've received one suggestion so far for a lunch spot tomorrow:
> 
> The Tied House...
> 
> John T.
> 
Hmmm - I was thinking of someplace that emphasized food over booze , since
I and other folks must be back to work after lunch. But I'll keep it in 
mind... any other suggestions?
					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com


-- 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 20:10:36 1993
From: mcorwine@comtch.iea.com
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 20:06:20 PDT
Subject: ideal listening environs
Status: 

I read somewhere that techno and speed metal were ideal for quick 
exercise such as sprinting and whatnot, but not for endurance exercise... 
I tried biking 20 miles listening to a relatively hard mix tape a few 
years ago and it didn't work all that well...

I also find techno ideal driving music as well, good to keep your mind 
off the monotony of the road and on the monotony of the music :) 

Personally, I love techno/house/acid on the dancefloor and living room 
floor best... Morning, noon, and night, asleep and awake, live or dead... 

It's hard to dance in my neck of the woods, as the crowds here are really 
into the glamorous aspects of dancing (ie. mating ritual, fashion runway) 
and I find dancing to be a personal activity.  However, I often find this 
intense personal experience more at raves here in Spokane, WA than those 
I have attended in Seattle... Hopefully when I join you nice people 
someday in SF I will experience more of the intense simultaneous oneness 
w/self and oneness with others I tasted at Evolution etc.

Matt.


--
mcorwine@comtch.iea.com (Matt Corwine)
IEAx for lack of a better name... (509) 624-0744

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 20:18:12 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 20:18:45 -0700
Subject: Mingus and More
Status: 

Techno is better than caffeine I have always said. I have always listened
to Industrial Dance, Techno, etc while driving or cleaning my house. Gets
me moving and into the groove so to speak...
And the louder the better.

Rox

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 20 21:02:41 1993
From: Monica Tauriello <monicat@gandalf.rutgers.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 0:02:34 EDT
Subject: YSH is back!!!! :)
Status: 

yes!!! we've got a space for tommorrow (thurs.) night! - YSH is back!!!!
wheeee!!!! call 765-7670 tomm. for more info....

monicat

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 00:04:29 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 15:23:47 PDT
Subject: Re: Mingus and More
Status: 


Does anyone else out here do stuff other than dancing while you're
listening to techno -- listening not as a distraction, but as an energizer
and mood-setter for the activity?
----------------

Absolutely, I rave every day riding home on CalTrain.  Sure, some
folks give me funny looks, but what do they know?

Chris

(This text composed by voice)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 00:17:23 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 23:59:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Music
Status: 


	The music I listen to totally depends on what mood I am in or want
to be in.  This could be anywhere from classical to rap to techno to
alternative to metal to industrial.  I actually don't listen to that much
techno at all though I do love it when I am in the right mood!
	Running or biking or just working out are great times to listen to
techno though sometimes I prefer harder industrial to keep my energy
levels up.

Peace,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 00:32:25 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:12:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Additions to the Calender
Status: 


	I just saw these at CD Research, a local CD store.  

Thursdays- The Blue Room  801 K st. Sacramento 21+ no cover before 10 pm
	 
	   Davoud  1890 Arden Way Sacramento  Its called the "Rage" building 
		   18+  (916)484-4062  Oct 21   Noel and Rob from Berkeley 
		   and Davood from Oakland

	
It also mentioned something about a Halloween Full Moon  info number is 
	(415)512-5713.

Later,
G
Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 00:41:57 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:28:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Halloween Full Moon
Status: 


sorry for all the separate posts but, 
	I just scanned the phone list and the number I had for the
Halloween Full Moon schindig was the same as Wicked number :)

G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 02:32:07 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 02:29:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aphex/Orbital/Moby 
Status: 


	Will the Aphex/Orbital/Moby tour have a date in SF?  If so, where
can I buy tix?  How much?

Sami




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 04:46:56 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 12:47:56 BST
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing 
Status: 


  Charles> I'm fascinated by the statement of at least one well-known
  Charles> musician in print recently that he's experienced another
  Charles> (non-human) presence on stage with him, the "ghostly
  Charles> other." What a trip.

Who's the "well-known musician", then....?

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 07:24:55 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 7:25:29 PDT
Subject: 1st Annual South Bay Lunch Anniversary
Status: 


1st Annual South Bay Lunch Anniversary -

( Actually , I don't remember when the first one was , but I thought
it was about time ...and the downtown Palo Alto location would provide
a lot of good choices for lunch )

 Since I haven't received an overwhelming amount of lunch place 
suggestions , why don't we meet for lunch at the first South Bay lunch 
meeting place? That would be on University Ave. and Emerson , at the
open area across from Good Earth and Stacey's Bookstore . That's at
the corner of Emerson and University , at the Stanford end of University Ave.
We don't have to eat at the same restaurant as that time , unless we decide to.

 Let's meet between 12noon and 12:15PM . I'll be wearing my work clothes
( faded maroon Dockers , wrinkly white long sleeve shirt w/ button
down collar and bolo tie ). If you're late , we'll try to leave you a note
attached to one of the trees.

 					Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
					WORK : 756-1317


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 08:12:32 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 8:13:07 PDT
Subject: 1st Annual South Bay Lunch Anniversary (fwd)
Status: 

	I'll also be wearing a red, white , and black cap with  "SFR"
in fluorescent letters ...
				Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com 
> 					WORK : 756-1317
 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 08:20:49 1993
From: Charles Blair <chas@stax.lib.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 10:21:54 -0500
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing 
Status: 

>> Who's the "well-known musician", then....?

The guy who played bass for the Jefferson Airplane, except I can never
remember his name without looking at it, and I don't have the source
handy: a recent Bass Player magazine interview. Well-known enough
among bass players to get interviewed, anyway. :-) (At least, I'm
pretty sure it was he and not Jack Bruce who said it; both were
interviewed in the same issue.)

It seems this thread might degenerate into DJing vs. playing. Not
really the point, I think. Many forms of art lend themselves to
"channelling the muse." There's that passage at the beginning of the
Iliad where Homer is about to recite the list of the Greek ships who
went to Troy, and says something like (again, no source handy): I, a
human, could not possibly remember all of what I'm about to say, but
you, O Muse, who remembers everything, speak. (Again, this might be a
really bad paraphrase of the original, but it's close enough for the
point I want to make.) Then Homer launches on this long list of ships,
where they came from, who manned them, etc. 

Now, by Homer's time invoking the muse might have been a trope, but I
bet that in the oral tradition to which long poems like the Iliad
belong (by the way, Homer subscribed to the "tyranny of the beat," as
did Shakespeare in his sonnets and lots of other poets; sometimes the
"tyranny" of a style, in this case, a rhythmic or metric style, is a
boost to creativity, not a dampener), I bet that those tribal bards
really didn't believe they had conscious access to or could store a
lot of the information they could relate, and attributed what they
could do to a transcendental force. (The Odyssey begins, Speak to me,
O Muse, of a man ...) 

In short, I don't think the point is about this or that way to get
there. For me the interesting point is what the "there" might be. If
it's calling forth something you didn't know you had, or had access
to, if it's transcending the _boredom_ of the same old thing, the same
old tired experiences, the "is that all there is?" of a (tired) old
pop song, whether it's through dancing, or DJing, or playing the sax
(a la Coltrane, another musician dude with spiritual leanings), or
drumming, or writing some code that you didn't know you had it in you
to write, for me (and that's my $0.02) that's the interesting
thing. (The Greeks had a muse for dancing, and for other things as
well.) The rest is style wars, (self-)image wars, fashion wars,
opinion wars, and all the rest of that ego stuff. People like Homer
must have been at times totally awed and humbled by their art (the
fact that a goddess could speak through them), rather than
ego-tripping on it. In some sense, they must have been "ecstatic"
(literally, standing beside or outside oneself, `withdrawal of the
soul from the body, mystic or prophetic trance'--Oxford English
Dictionary). I view the "self" beside which one steps here as the ego;
I approach raving as something I don't want to do either with my ego,
or without my ego. I want enough of my ego there to bring something
back with me from the experience, but I don't want the ego to
dominate, so that what I'm experiencing is the same old thing. The ego
has to be side-by-side with the rest of me, and part of the experience
is to discover what the rest of "me" is.




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 08:49:08 1993
From: PLUI@IOSSVR.gm.hac.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 08:48:53 PDT
Subject: Front Page of Canada's National Newspaper (longish rave article)
Status: 

hullo, I finally got to use a scanner! here's the goods:

COVER STORY - GLOBE and MAIL -
Sat, Oct. 9 1993 (Canada) 

They only come out at night - Rave on the rise: Is the underground selling its 
soul?  
article by Charlotte Parsons (Globe and Mail Montreal)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Between the bank and the hair salon, Alice gyrates in a cloud of glowing 
violet. A bearded man spins past her through the mist. He is wearing a purple 
tie-dyed dress; strands of pearls swing from his neck.  Alice remains unfazed. 
She knows what to expect after stepping through the looking glass into rave 
country.  The moment she walked into Place Newman, an otherwise ordinary 
Montreal shopping mall, she entered a dreamscape of shifting colours, throbbing 
music and outlandish attire.

Laser-lit and music-powered, the underground dance culture known as rave has 
escaped the grey backdrop of its industrial British birthplace. Now, young 
people from Hong Kong to Moscow are flocking to secretive surrealistic parties 
known for their creativity and their size. One in London drew an ardent crowd 
estimated at 30,000.

To the true believer, rave is more than just a label for an all-night dance 
marathon held in some unlikely location, such as an airport hangar, library or 
flea market. It is an alternative Lifestyle that allows its adherents to shed 
the bonds of daily existence for a Saturday-night extravaganza cloaked in 
fantasy and anonymity.
Rave 'has its own music, its own dress code, its own ethos. 
And has a dark side.

Next to Alice, a young woman with ribbons in her ponytails and Tweetybird on 
her skirt suddenly stops dancing, unzips her plastic Care Bears backpack and 
extricates a jar of Vick's VapoRub. She smears a dot below each nostril, zips 
the bag back up and resumes her frenetic dance.
She is less likely to have a cold than to be in the throes of ecstasy the 
street name for the drug that has come to be associated with rave culture. Its 
effects are reputedly heightened by the aromatic cold remedy.

Much confusion surrounds ecstasy, which is known to science as 
methylenedioxymethamphetamine.

The drug is often described by its initials, MDMA. No one is really sure 
whether to call it an amphetamine, a designer drug or a psychedelic. But it is 
surely illegal, which is why, in addition to high energy and great joy, most 
raves now feature a police presence.

The rave adventure begins with a phone call. The location is always kept secret 
until about 12 hours in advance, that's when a message appears on the 
organizers' phone line telling those who are mobile where to go¿ which could be 
any place large and rentable¿and those who are not where to find the fleet of 
chartered buses that will take them there.

A crowd has already formed around a row of yellow school buses as Alice arrives 
at the preordained downtown street corner. In her checkerboard sunglasses, neon 
rubber earrings and plastic orange necklace, she blends in perfectly,. Hats 
straight from the pages of Dr. Seuss bob above the crowd. A teen-aged girl 
sporting braids and a flower-covered velvet bonnet swaps jokes with a young 
oriental man in a striped top hat.

In regular life, Alice is a student of anthropology, and she now finds herself 
standing between two interesting subjects: a man with blue hair and a teen-aged 
boy wearing a propeller-topped ball cap. Unable to resist she spins the prop, 
whose owner turns and smiles. Then the doors of the first bus open and she is 
swept aboard .

Bizarre costume is central to the rave lifestyle, and the rising demand for the 
elements of a bold visual statement has spawned a network of suppliers. Among 
them is XStatic, a shop just off Toronto's hip Queen Street West strip where a 
videotape of a recent rave flickers across a TV screen over the cash register.

The merchandise on offer ranges from ravewear (such as striped, floppy hats and 
form-fitting bodices) to cassettes featuring techno, the new, largely 
computerized music that drives the dancers. Lining the back wall and free for 
the taking are an array of underground publications on the latest in music and 
party trends.

One of the papers is called Tribe, and Mychol Holtman who writes its "Wazup" 
column, offers this theory to explain why rave has become such a magnet for 
restless youth since emerging from Liverpool and Manchester.
"It can be summed up in one word: unity," he says, arguing that ravers "are 
reacting to the 'me, me, me: forget everyone else' attitude of the seventies 
and eighties. "

Mr. Holtman feels that young people are increasingly depressed by their lot in 
life, by the fact that so many of them are heading straight from high school to 
the unemployment line. The rave "vibe" provides an antidote, he says. "They 
reassure each other that there is hope and love out there. "

This analysis strikes a chord with Dave, a Toronto rave producer who agrees to 
speak only if his last name is withheld. (Secrecy is a rave watchword.)

"There's no work. Kids are depressed. With the rave scene, they can go out and 
have a good time and forget about their problems," he says, adding that the 
experience can also benefit young people from unstable homes. "That sense of 
family is there for people who lack it. I think they get a lot of love and 
affection in the rave scene.".

Such sentiments, especially combined with psychedelic lights and wild costumes, 
not to mention drugs, may sound familiar to those who remember the hippie era. 
"It's a total peace movement," confirms Dave. "It's the same thing as the 
sixties. "

Canadian rave got its start two years ago with four techno-starved British 
expatriates. Over coffee at a Toronto cafe, disc jockey and rave producer Sean 
L recalls that they "were basically just looking for a place to go ourselves, 
because there was nothing here. "
Given their common background and affection for the music of Bob Marley, the 
four adopted the name Exodus, planned their first rave and distributed several 
hundred flyers in downtown bars to advertise it.

To their amazement, about 400 people showed up for the debut. It was an 
embryonic outing, far less elaborate than those to follow, but the novices 
responded to a mood and music unknown even in the avantgarde clubs many of them 
frequented. "I don't suppose there was one person there who didn't go home 
thinking, 'Wow, that was something else,' " Sean says.
Thus encouraged, Exodus began to arrange weekly raves, and soon other 
production groups emerged. As it grew in popularity, rave began to spread, 
popping up from Halifax to Vancouver. To its devotees, Saturday nights would 
never be the same.

The doors of Place Newman open just as the bus pulls up to unload its youthful 
cargo. On the way in, Alice is frisked for weapons and drugs by a woman wearing 
a puffy pseudo-fur I coat, orange bandanna and the special sneakers favored  by 
Montreal ravers. (They've been elevated several inches by a stack of extra no 
less .)

She surrenders her $15 ticket and sprints toward the heart of the mall, pausing 
where the rave merchants have set up shop. One table is labeled "Toys" and 
covered with glowing whistles and plastic troll dolls. The other overflows with 
lollipops and chewing gum.
She selects two miniature boxes of gum (50 cents), tips their cargo into her 
mouth and heads down the corridor as colored spotlights sway back and forth 
overhead, dragging circular puddles of purple across the floor.

Then the music takes hold of her.

The music of rave comes in several forms, with "techno" and "house" the best 
known. Asked to describe them, Sean says that house is " mellower, slower¿a bit 
more rhythmatic," while techno is harder and faster, "more abrasive, I guess." 
It has an extra 50 or 60 beats a minute, features a very heavy bass line and 
sparse vocals, and "it's always very loud¿the louder the better. "

RAVE may be a British export but its music was born in the U.S.A. House 
appeared first, taking shape in Chicago dance clubs in the early eighties and 
mutating into techno after it hit Detroit. Not that the mutation has stopped. 
The sound changes so rapidly that disc jockeys,
dedicated to staying abreast of the latest trends, are often
bigger stars than the performers they play.

They cultivate a personal style captured on cassettes sold with their names on 
the label. A rave is a 'one off' occasion," explains Dave Crook, a Toronto disc 
jockey originally from Manchester, "and the only way they can describe what 
kind of music there's going to be is by putting the deejay's name on it¿it's 
like putting the band names on a concert flyer. 

The beat buffets Alice's body as green light scribbles across her face and 
glowing bars of neon criss-cross in time to the music. Fog rolls outward from 
the speaker laden stage in front of the Brico hardware store, and multicoloured 
ceiling lights stain the mist green, red, yellow and blue.

Suddenly, the colour vanishes as blinding sheets of white light stutter across 
the smoke, cutting Alice's dance movements to photo stills. Then she is plunged 
back into colour-slashed dark.
Rave electrician Neil Robertson says that many of these cosmic laser effects 
are done with mirrors. "They can project light onto mirrors, which create a 3-D 
image in the room. The mirrors are really small, maybe five inches, and can be 
used to make the image of maybe a pyramid. "
"Laser animation" is another rave specialty. A moving image of laser light is 
projected against the wall, and that's something you don't see in the clubs, " 
he says.

At Place Newman, lasers are being used to create illusory tunnels and surfaces. 
A ceiling of luminous green bars shoots out from the stage, just above the 
heads of the dancers. Then the flat surface appears to contract, transforming 
itself into a green-spoked spinning wheel.
According to Alice, there is method to this laser madness. "I think that, 
visually, raves are setup to enhance the experience of being on psychedelics 
she explains "although I do know a lot of people who don't use drugs who go 
just for the experience of being around people
who are free and happy. "

Of those who have chosen to indulge, many are on ecstasy, which is a variant of 
the sixties a love drug" MDA and the intoxicant of choice for ravers from 
London to San Francisco.

However, the growing attention being paid to ecstasy angers rave organizer 
Dave. "There are a million kids out there who come to these things who don't 
even do drugs, " he contends. "They come for the music." His brows knit in 
frustration. 
"If I could extricate drugs from the scene, I would. But can the Grateful Dead 
get the drugs out of their concerts? So why don't we disallow the Dead?"
 
"When I see a 17-year-old kid who's wrecked, I get upset. I really do. But I 
take care of these kids. And that's a lot more than I can say for those [rock] 
concerts."

ALICE is not on drugs, but after an hour of dancing she is certainly thirsty. 
She escapes the laser kaleidoscope and weaves through the crowd toward a heavy 
black curtain. As she slips past it, black lighting turns the white stripes of 
her dress electric mauve, and she arrives at the "smart bar. "

A woman in a black bodice is tending three blenders housing "smart 
drinks"¿liquids in cheery shades of red, orange and green. "They're made with 
amino acids, fruit and caffeine," she explains while pouring Alice's selection, 
raspberry, into a plastic cup. "They give you an energy boost. "

Across from the bar, an empty shop has been converted into the "chill-out 
lounge." Young people sit cross-legged in the light of a single candle, as a 
stereo set next to a tangled heap of pink and blue neon tubing emits music 
totally unlike the pounding techno on the other
side of the curtain.	

Called "ambient", it features a soft beat and keyboard	
washes that create an oasis for the bass-weary The smell
of clove cigaettes and hashish is in the air.

By 4 a.m. Alice has spent whatever energy her smart drink had provided. 
Exhausted, she manoeuvres through the crowd and out the door. She is struck by 
the sudden quiet as she steps back into the grey-black reality of the parking 
lot. 

A police cruiser sits idling, as its occupants gaze at the mall with apparent 
boredom. The two policemen have a long wait ahead. They've been assigned to 
watch over the party until it wraps up¿in another four hours. Bidding the 
officers good night, Alice boards the bus that will take her back downtown. 
Across the parking lot, a second bus pulls up with a fresh crop of costumed 
youth. For them, the night is just beginning.

Lately, the police have taken a passive approach to rave control. "When we find 
out about a rave party, then we'll monitor them says Detective
Sergeant Craig Hilborn of the Metro Toronto force's drug unit. "The main 
concern we have is the age of the participants and the possible use of illicit 
drugs."

He says there is little of the violence that would cause a policing problem. In 
fact, a rave in May did end in serious violence, but not at the instigation of 
its participants. Video footage of the Montreal force shutting down festivities 
at the Palais du Commerce show police in riot gear beating party-goers with 
nightsticks.

Yet, the future of rave may be in doubt. If anything, the phenomenon may fall 
victim to its own success.

In recent months, rave has left its underground birthplace and percolated into 
the mainstream. Fully aware of what happened to disco, punk and all the other 
subterranean movements that made this journey, hardcore ravers are growing 
disillusioned.

Popularity breeds commercialism, and the purists have become skeptical as 
second-generation competitors appear in the marketplace.
"The sole purpose of a lot of these people is just simply to make a killing, " 
complains Sean L. "I think what happened is, people saw what was going on¿four 
or five hundred people dancing¿and thought, 'Hey, I could do that!' But to 
throw a rave you have to understand what it is; what the vibe is. "

At a recent event staged by Atlantis, one of the newcomers in Toronto, 
representatives of Chemistry, an early arrival, handed patrons their 
resignations¿laminated cards that read: "The scene has gone commercial been 
bastardized and generally gotten f----d up. That's why we've reluctantly 
decided to pack it all in.... "

As the parties move away from their underground dance roots, Sean says, there 
is less emphasis on the music, and more on a carnival atmosphere with games and 
toys. For example, the Atlantis production featured a maze, a game of ring toss 
and a giant blow-up castle with a bouncy floor.

This is rave packaged by businessmen in their 30s, he says, and their target 
market is no longer the inner-city crowd who started it all. "They're appealing 
mostly to high-school kids from the suburbs. 

The pioneers fear that in losing its clandestine nature, rave may lose the key 
ingredient to its continued good health. They may not have to wait long to find 
out whether they're right.

This month's schedule in Toronto demonstrates just how quickly rave is losing 
its low profile. Atlantis is planning to hold one at the CN Tower, the tallest 
free-standing structure in the world.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------










From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 09:11:31 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 9:11:58 PDT
Subject: Re: Aphex/Orbital/Moby
Status: 

Sami Khoury sez:
> 
> 
> 	Will the Aphex/Orbital/Moby tour have a date in SF?  


Yes

>If so, where can I buy tix?  

BPM, Housewares, the usual places

>How much?

Around $15.  It should be in the next calendar.

-H-


-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
                  nature doesn't make foolish laws
...........................................................................

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 09:24:08 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 09:24:40 -0700
Subject: dancing and listening to techno
Status: 

Vivian comments:

>I love to listen to techno while riding the stationary bike at the 
>gym or the stairmaster, but it is especially motivating while lifting 
>weights.  I also have  a friend that teaches aerobics. She coordinates 
>some of her steps to certain techno songs. It really is motivating.

Same here,  but I prefer the faster 150+ bpm stuff,  and doing a complete 
45 minute tape side on a stairmaster at 150+ BPM is perfect,  but finding
tapes at that speed is kinda hard.   Which brings me to another question,
Where can I get tapes of more faster techno...   I think I have graduated
from the slower 120+ BPM stuff.    Probably why I have so much energy...

Listening to Tecno while coding is GREAT,  as long as I don't have to
go and turn the tape over every 45 mins.  Thats why I got DMX.

But after raving,  while going from the rave to Boogie Buffet,  I listen
to KKSF (Ambient) to "chill out" and give my head a rest from the constant
"boom boom" which often lingers in my head for several hours after a rave.

CC

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 09:24:15 1993
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Date: 21 Oct 1993 09:23:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: image conversion
Status: 

Question for all you graphics gurus out there:

  does anyone know where I can get a Unix version of BinHex 4.0 on public
    domain?  got some images and can't convert them!

Thanks

Dave Scruton      "Celtic Warrior"
Huggies Aircrash

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 09:29:15 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 09:29:11 -0700
Subject: Motion last night
Status: 


It was really incredibly good. Better than last week.  
I arrived a little before 10:30 and the place was dead.  I left and 
came back at about 11 and it had started to pick up . I think the 
line up went something like Loren, Harry Who and then Tony finished 
it up.(please correct me if I am wrong)  Tony, this new DJ, was really 
good.  I have not danced like that for a long time but let me tell 
you by the end of the night I was exhausted. I was feeling like i 
should go home being that I have to work at 8:30, but my feet would 
not let me walk toward the door, the music was that good.  Tony even got to play 
till about 2:20 or so.  A friend remarked at how even the crowd was friendly. 
I would highly recommend checking it out if you want to get out on 
Wednesday nights.  I even saw some non South Bay sfraves out there 
seeming to have a good time. 


See ya there next week, 




vivianm 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 09:49:36 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 09:49:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Aphex/Orbital/Moby 
Status: 


So will the Aphex/Orbital/Moby show be on par with the recent Orb show?
(Which I thought was positively fabulous). For the most part, I only go to
"live" techno concerts which I get free tickets to, so I don't want to
waste my time/money if this is going to be a boring show.

If you have an opinion, please let us know!

PS:...

> Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
>                   nature doesn't make foolish laws
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

FYI -- I believe this sample, along with most of the other samples from
that song by Young American Primitive (??? -- i think -- it's on one of the
early twitch releases) is from the movie "Videodrome" -- I accidently
caught that truly weird movie on cable one night and recognized a lot of
the dialog from that song. Oh, I think Deborah Harrie (aka Blondie) was the
actress that spoke most of the lines.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 09:52:26 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 09:52:17 PDT
Subject: Aphex/Orbital/Moby
Status: 

OK, I called Underground Records in San Jose regarding the tickets for
this gala event.  Although the info line for the tour (415-241-1560)
mentions Underground Records as one of their ticket outlets, the dudes
at Underground Records claim they know nothing about this.  They don't
have tickets, and don't know anything else.
Have they just not gone on sale yet?

Sue


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 09:57:31 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 09:57:58 -0700
Subject: Re: dancing and listening to techno 
Status: 


I like to ski to techno, preferably on recently groomed packed powder
terrain so i can beat-match my schwing with da music. For more varied
terrain, I listen to Rare Groove, Funk, Reggae, and/or Dub. A few years
ago, I found myself up to my thighs in luscious Utah powder and found my
tape with the "Neville Brothers" on one side and "the Meters" on the other
was just right.

I find that it really helps me cut loose on the slopes, makes skiing more
like dancing.

PS: "We don' need no steenkin' snowboards!" :-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 10:16:02 1993
From: sameer@netcom.com (Sameer Parekh)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 10:16:12 PDT
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 

Roy Badami said:
> 
> 
>   Charles> I'm fascinated by the statement of at least one well-known
>   Charles> musician in print recently that he's experienced another
>   Charles> (non-human) presence on stage with him, the "ghostly
>   Charles> other." What a trip.
> 
> Who's the "well-known musician", then....?
> 
> 	Cosmic
	A friend of mine always tells me that once you explore the
experience of the "Other" you can get past it and realize that the
"Other" is really your Self.
	*That* is a trip.

Peace,
-- 
Sameer
sameer@netcom.com

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 10:17:45 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 10:18:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Front Page of Canada's National Newspaper (longish rave article) 
Status: 


> This month's schedule in Toronto demonstrates just how quickly rave is losing 
> its low profile. Atlantis is planning to hold one at the CN Tower, the tallest 
> free-standing structure in the world.

Yowsa! Although truly overground, I think the visuals at the top deck of
the CN Tower would be quite spectacular! And you could get turned into a
human popsicle by going outside to the chill-out-room-cum-observation deck.
It makes me ill thinking about how cool it would be to watch the sun rise
from that height.

Another thing I liked about Toronto is the cultural diversity. Lots of East
and West Indian culture, and some of the best food in the universe. The
culture diversity is also echoed in the music -- lots of reggae, and a
strong "Bhangra" scene there as well. I'd sure like to see a Bhangra rave
in SF, but nobody has even heard of it here.

If it weren't so bitter cold all the time, might even be a nice place to
live!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 10:28:35 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 10:25:53 PDT
Subject: Re: Aphex/Orbital/Moby
Status: 

> So will the Aphex/Orbital/Moby show be on par with the recent Orb show?

As far as a "show" goes, I would guess not.  I saw Orbital last year,
and although the music was great, I felt myself getting bored 1/2 way
through their set.  When I go out dancing, I'm used to a bit more
sonic variety than a set of Orbital could offer.  And there was no
visual element to speak of, which was the best thing about the Orb 
show IMO.

I haven't seen Moby or A.T. live, but I haven't heard anything positive
about Moby's performance.  If I go, it would be mainly for A.T. 

- leg of eel


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 10:32:15 1993
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea Of Sin)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 10:33:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Moby/Aphex..etc.
Status: 

I was wondering if the same thing that happened at the Orb show will 
apply to the Aphex show. (You know kickin' people out after 2, who 
arent 21). It will be a true bummer if it is.  -- 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sea>of<sin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
   D  E  M  A  N  D    T  H  E    F  L  O  W    O  F    R  H  Y  T  H  M
>>>>kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<kawakami@alm.admin.usfca.edu<<<
>>>>seaofsin@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>>><<<<<<<<<cin@coreys.berkeley.edu<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 10:45:55 1993
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 10:46:22 PDT
Subject: Re: Aphex/Orbital/Moby
Status: 

Niels P. Mayer sez:
> 
> 
> So will the Aphex/Orbital/Moby show be on par with the recent Orb show?
> (Which I thought was positively fabulous). For the most part, I only go to
> "live" techno concerts which I get free tickets to, so I don't want to
> waste my time/money if this is going to be a boring show.
> 
> If you have an opinion, please let us know!

I'm going so I can heckle Moby about not plugging his synths in and lip
synching. :-) :-)

Seriously, I think it will be great for a huge event.  Plus I have a
few friends coming to SF for it.  And the price is right.

> 
> PS:...
> 
> > Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
> >                   nature doesn't make foolish laws
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> FYI -- I believe this sample, along with most of the other samples from
> that song by Young American Primitive (??? -- i think -- it's on one of the

Yup.  YAP will be at the Orbital/Aphex Twin/Moby show too, BTW.


> early twitch releases) is from the movie "Videodrome" -- I accidently
> caught that truly weird movie on cable one night and recognized a lot of
> the dialog from that song. Oh, I think Deborah Harrie (aka Blondie) was the
> actress that spoke most of the lines.
> 

Videodrome is one of the coolest pieces of art ever crafted by man :-)

It's heavily sampled by Front 242 and many other bands.

-H-

"You know me... And I sure know you.  Every One!"

-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
                  nature doesn't make foolish laws
...........................................................................

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 10:46:58 1993
From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 13:42:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Front Page of Canada's National Newspaper (longish rave article)
Status: 

Beyond the ultraworld of PLUI@iossvr.gm.hac.com:
> 
> hullo, I finally got to use a scanner! here's the goods:

Dont believe the hype. Here's the real story.

> COVER STORY - GLOBE and MAIL -
> Sat, Oct. 9 1993 (Canada) 
> article by Charlotte Parsons (Globe and Mail Montreal)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>She knows what to expect after stepping through the looking glass into rave 
>country.  The moment she walked into Place Newman, an otherwise ordinary 
>Montreal shopping mall, she entered a dreamscape of shifting colours,throbbing 
>music and outlandish attire.

That's an old rave... and it was a very lame one too.

[lots of cliches deleted - you will find that in any rave article]
>Rave 'has its own music, its own dress code, its own ethos. 

Dress code? True grungewear seems to be pretty much there (20% of the people)
but is not rave related at all. I see much more grungewear at pearl jam
concerts... In many case most people dont give a damn and wear what they want
to wear. BTW, grungewear is another media creation...

> And has a dark side.

yep. darkness breakbeat! :P

>Next to Alice, a young woman with ribbons in her ponytails and Tweetybird on 
>her skirt suddenly stops dancing, unzips her plastic Care Bears backpack and 
>extricates a jar of Vick's VapoRub. She smears a dot below each nostril, zips 
>the bag back up and resumes her frenetic dance.

People who take x knows what to do not do. That is take lots of water and do
not dance too much. Do you really think she was on x? If she is, somebody
please tell her the facts... It's that time once again for MDMA facts flyers.

>She is less likely to have a cold than to be in the throes of ecstasy the 
>street name for the drug that has come to be associated with rave culture.

She is more likely to not be on ecstasy. There is just so little that makes its
way in Montreal. Xers are far less than 10% of the crowd. I'd even say less
than 5%.

>The drug is often described by its initials, MDMA. No one is really sure 
>whether to call it an amphetamine, a designer drug or a psychedelic. But it is 
>surely illegal, which is why, in addition to high energy and great joy, most 
>raves now feature a police presence.

Bullshit. Most cops dont even know what X is. They still think there is acid in
smart drinks, that alcohol is served illegally in raves, that people dance
buck naked and mostly they bust events because of the club protection by the
mafia who still influences greatly the cops. Small events are no threat to the
clubs, so they go on unbusted (except for Bug and jam events - they sure dont
have their shit together). If it had anything to do with a real concern about
drugs, they'd bust the smaller ones too (which are quite easy to find too).

>The rave adventure begins with a phone call.The location is always kept secret 
>until about 12 hours in advance,

That's 24 hours of course, and secondly up to 1 week before the rumor has made
it's way in the streets. Also, it's not like it's difficult to get, some
promoters have publicities in newspapers, stickers everywhere, flyers in
every record shops, grungewear shops etc...

>that's when a message appears on the 
>organizers' phone line telling those who are mobile where to go(which could be 
>any place large and rentable)

precisely. Big raves are just money making skeems these days, which is a shame.

>Bizarre costume is central to the rave lifestyle,and the rising demand for the 
>elements of a bold visual statement has spawned a network of suppliers. Among 
>them is XStatic, a shop just off Toronto's hip Queen Street West strip where a 

I dont get it. Are they covering Montreal's or Toronto's rave scene? You cant
cover both in one article if you  are not clearly drawing the line, because
these are 2 totally different scenes.

> One of the papers is called Tribe, and Mychol Holtman who writes its "Wazup" 
> column, offers this theory to explain why rave has become such a magnet for 
> restless youth since emerging from Liverpool and Manchester.
> "It can be summed up in one word: unity," he says, arguing that ravers "are 
> reacting to the 'me, me, me: forget everyone else' attitude of the seventies 
> and eighties. "

Not. Raves are precisely me, me, me, forget what everybody else thinks. The
eighties were me, me, me, do like everybody else.

>Mr. Holtman feels that young people are increasingly depressed by their lot in 
>life,by the fact that so many of them are heading straight from high school to 
>the unemployment line. The rave "vibe" provides an antidote, he says. "They 
>reassure each other that there is hope and love out there. "

These are some sick puppies :)
This is again media hawgwash. It is proven regularly by the flame wars on the
rave lists (and particularly on alt.rave) that the peace, love, unity concept
is not really what it's all about. What is it about? well it is what it means
to each of you. It's for the fun of it? fine. It's for the enjoyment of music?
fine. It's whatever you think it is for you. But it is not ONE thing.

>not to mention drugs, may sound familiar to those who remember the hippie era. 
>"It's a total peace movement," confirms Dave. "It's the same thing as the 
>sixties. "

That's what a deal of people would want, but (un)fortunately it's not.

>Canadian rave got its start two years ago with four techno-starved British 
>expatriates.

That's news to the Montreal rave scene. My show is advanced in it's third
year and when i started it, i had been going to raves for a year. In fact,
i've been to acid parties which were then named warehouse parties and the
music was detroit techno, house and acid house. Now, that was in 88. What are
we listening in raves now? techno, house, acid (add ambient). Same difference.
Only the names have been changed to protect the innocents.

>Over coffee at a Toronto cafe, disc jockey and rave producer Sean 
>L recalls that they "were basically just looking for a place to go ourselves, 
>because there was nothing here. "
>Given their common background and affection for the music of Bob Marley, the 
>four adopted the name Exodus, planned their first rave and distributed several 
>hundred flyers in downtown bars to advertise it.
> 
>To their amazement, about 400 people showed up for the debut. It was an 
>embryonic outing, far less elaborate than those to follow, but the novices 
>responded to a mood and music unknown even in the avantgarde clubs many of them
>frequented.

Say what? clearly Toronto clubs must have been a sad place to be in the late
80s.

> RAVE may be a British export but its music was born in the U.S.A. House 
> appeared first, taking shape in Chicago dance clubs in the early eighties and 
> mutating into techno after it hit Detroit. Not that the mutation has stopped. 

At least they got that bit correctly. Except not everybody agrees on the
house->techno, but still.

> The sound changes so rapidly that disc jockeys,
> dedicated to staying abreast of the latest trends, are often
> bigger stars than the performers they play.

Ain't that a shame. That's mostly because techno bands release only one album
(when it's not simply one 12"), but the DJs play gigs upon gigs and so their
names appear more frequently.

>They cultivate a personal style captured on cassettes sold with their names on 
>the label. A rave is a 'one off' occasion," explains Dave Crook, a Toronto disc

predestined name? :)

> The beat buffets Alice's body as green light scribbles across her face and 

Which reminds me: Metropolis in Montreal is doing something very illegal:
their laser scans the whole dancefloor. I was very surprised (but no damage)
to receive a laser blast in one eye when i went there one friday night...
(it is a quite powerfull laser, like in big raves)

>"Laser animation" is another rave specialty. A moving image of laser light is 
>projected against the wall, and that's something you don't see in the clubs, " 
>he says.

Check out L'esprit, Le Metropolis etc... They have had laser animations on
walls and screens for several years...

>At Place Newman, lasers are being used to create illusory tunnels and surfaces.
>A ceiling of luminous green bars shoots out from the stage, just above the 
>heads of the dancers. Then the flat surface appears to contract, transforming 
>itself into a green-spoked spinning wheel.
>According to Alice, there is method to this laser madness. "I think that, 
>visually, raves are setup to enhance the experience of being on psychedelics 
>she explains "although I do know a lot of people who don't use drugs who go 
>just for the experience of being around people
>who are free and happy. "

As i said, a very small percentage take drugs. And raves are NOT the place to
experience psychedelics. If you want to try them, do it with friends so that
they can control the environment to prevent a bad trip.

>Of those who have chosen to indulge, many are on ecstasy, which is a variant of
>the sixties a love drug" MDA

It's not.

>and the intoxicant of choice for ravers from 
>London to San Francisco.

Nope. In commercial raves it's surely alcohol. Even if it's not sold at the
site.

[stuff about a dj saying the scene is not as bad as the grateful dead shows]
>ALICE is not on drugs, but after an hour of dancing she is certainly thirsty. 
>She escapes the laser kaleidoscope and weaves through the crowd toward a heavy 
>black curtain. As she slips past it, black lighting turns the white stripes of 
>her dress electric mauve, and she arrives at the "smart bar. "
> 
>A woman in a black bodice is tending three blenders housing "smart 
>drinks"?liquids in cheery shades of red, orange and green. "They're made with 
>amino acids, fruit and caffeine," she explains while pouring Alice's selection,
>raspberry, into a plastic cup. "They give you an energy boost. "

Ha. DNA smartbar. You gotta take 6 of these for anything to happen. Saturn 6
nights at DAX used to have real smartdrinks. Just one and you felt like you
were thinking clearer.

> Called "ambient", it features a soft beat and keyboard	
> washes that create an oasis for the bass-weary The smell
> of clove cigaettes and hashish is in the air.
> 
>By 4 a.m. Alice has spent whatever energy her smart drink had provided. 

Ya right. The drink didn't do anything. Usually the last club type crowd
finish to leave at 4... And a bunch of drunk clubbers get at the raves at
that time too.

>A police cruiser sits idling, as its occupants gaze at the mall with apparent 
>boredom. The two policemen have a long wait ahead. They've been assigned to 
>watch over the party until it wraps up?in another four hours. Bidding the 
>officers good night, Alice boards the bus that will take her back downtown. 
>Across the parking lot, a second bus pulls up with a fresh crop of costumed 
>youth. For them, the night is just beginning.

I think they simply dont want another H2O on their hand (another bug and jam
fiasco) with the riot squad. But when this event is far in the past, watch
them jump in with their baton and shield and beat up kids.

>Lately, the police have taken a passive approach to rave control."When we find 
>out about a rave party, then we'll monitor them says Detective
>Sergeant Craig Hilborn of the Metro Toronto force's drug unit. "The main 
>concern we have is the age of the participants and the possible use of illicit 
>drugs."

Hmm. We are talking about Place Newman in Montreal, MUC cops and we get a
quote from a Toronto detective? I dont get it.

>He says there is little of the violence that would cause a policing problem. In
>fact, a rave in May did end in serious violence, but not at the instigation of 
>its participants. Video footage of the Montreal force shutting down festivities
>at the Palais du Commerce show police in riot gear beating party-goers with 
>nightsticks.

Yep. Hey they got that right too! On the other hand, rap nights are extremely
violent. Stabbing, guns etc... but in raves, i've yet to witness violence
instigated by a raver.

> Yet, the future of rave may be in doubt. If anything, the phenomenon may fall 
> victim to its own success.

It will return to the form it should never have left.

>In recent months, rave has left its underground birthplace and percolated into 
>the mainstream. Fully aware of what happened to disco, punk and all the other 
>subterranean movements that made this journey, hardcore ravers are growing 
>disillusioned.

True. We've gone back to the underground after the H2O event, knowing things
will never be the same. And you know what? i like that better. keep it
underground. But the comparison is not correct. Techno music is here to stay,
while disco and punk are not anymore. Raves and techno is not the same thing.

>Popularity breeds commercialism, and the purists have become skeptical as 
>second-generation competitors appear in the marketplace.

I've yet to see a great commercial rave here.

>"The sole purpose of a lot of these people is just simply to make a killing, " 
>complains Sean L. "I think what happened is, people saw what was going on?four 
>or five hundred people dancing?and thought, 'Hey, I could do that!' But to 
>throw a rave you have to understand what it is; what the vibe is. "

You have to have logistic skills and that's all. Get the right people to DJ,
to do the lights etc... Small raves are less logistic, but require the
organiser to be much more in the movement and be multi disciplinary too.

>At a recent event staged by Atlantis, one of the newcomers in Toronto, 
>representatives of Chemistry, an early arrival, handed patrons their 
>resignations?laminated cards that read: "The scene has gone commercial been 
>bastardized and generally gotten f----d up. That's why we've reluctantly 
>decided to pack it all in.... "

I've heard that T.O is particularly bad in that way.

>This is rave packaged by businessmen in their 30s, he says, and their target 
>market is no longer the inner-city crowd who started it all. "They're appealing
> mostly to high-school kids from the suburbs. 

True.

>The pioneers fear that in losing its clandestine nature, rave may lose the key 
>ingredient to its continued good health. They may not have to wait long to find
>out whether they're right.

The underground is fine if you ask me.

>This month's schedule in Toronto demonstrates just how quickly rave is losing 
>its low profile. Atlantis is planning to hold one at the CN Tower, the tallest 
>free-standing structure in the world.

I think it's a bad place to hold a rave if you ask me.

Well, enough for now, let me know what you think.

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 11:02:58 1993
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 10:28:19 PDT
Subject: Re: DJ's vs Musicians...ad infinitum
Status: 

Hi gang,

After nearly 3 decades of sweat and toil, cut and bleeding fingers, muscle
spasms from hours of practice on a horribly set up steel string acoustic
guitar...playing in tiny crowded smoke filled dives...ducking flying beer
bottles...haggling with sleazy club owners over payment etc. I think it's
called paying my dues, (YUK)....

Just setting the stage for what's to come. I used to think of DJ's as low
life entrepenuers eager to make a quick buck off of other peoples sweat,
toil and talents, and to tell the truth, the early DJ's were pretty much
what I just described. 

Some had little or no knowledge of music, they just knew a couple of records 
that people liked to hear and they played them and got payed. And I might 
add, nearly all of them never even heard of BMI or ASCAP, (I used to ask them)
so needless to say, never payed a dime to them. But they didn't refuse payment 
at the end of the night after playing records that were represented by the 
aforementioned agencies. I looked at them as destroyers of the very industry 
they were profiteering from. They were taking from and not putting anything back 
into the music business.

The other thing I resented was that at every party or club that these "leeches"
played it was one less place that a live band got work. For awhile it actually
seemed that there would be no venues for aspiring new groups to be able to
display their wares for the general public and that music would stagnate, or
worse yet, die out altogether.

And then I went to a rave.......(cut to the chase).. WOW! I never knew DJing
could be considered an art form! Double WOW! Carlos.... Triple WOW! Jeno, 
Garth... etc. I guess you get the picture. I now have the greatest respect for
DJ's and for what they've added to the artform of music.

And much to my relief, there are still plenty of clubs who have the guts to
keep paying live bands, and giving new acts a chance to draw a following and
maybe get that recording contract nearly all us musicians dream of. But the
neat thing about it all, is that DJ's and live acts are now almost in a state
of symbiosis, re:Orb's show last Friday.

So in closing I say it's silly to have a DJ vs. musician vs muse vs Charlie
Mingus vs to move vs not to move vs I've got rhythm vs no you don't etc. etc. 
etc. flame war of any type.

And as different as all people are on this planet there will be differing forms
of expression on the dance floor as well as on the stage. And just because
one person says this and another says that ad nauseum....doesn't change the
fact that music AFFECTS us all in some way. So let's celebrate that and get
on to something new. Something POSITIVE.

Rave on, sisters and brothers,

John Turman




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 11:12:48 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 11:12:39 PDT
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 

Randy: 
> Once you can play well   
> enough that the music is coming thru you without much thought, or any       
> thought, the level of enjoyment is a least the same as DJ'ing, if not
> infinitely greater.

A lot depends on what kind of music moves you.  It's probably true that
Coltrane would get more pleasure from playing a sax solo than he would
DJ'ing a record of one of his solos. 

> without dissing DJ'ing, or its gift of joy & exstasy to so many, i find it
> hard to believe anyone would really think this....unless they just didn't
> want to, or couldn't, make the tremendous effort necessary to reach that
> stage of proficiency, a la Mingus, that true professionals reach rather
> easily.

Well, it's true, Randy, that many of us couldn't be bothered to spend the
tremendous effort it takes to become one with some old baroque era
sound utensil.  My meager home studio contains the equivalent of 16
separate instruments, which were meant to be played together. 
The music I listen to may have over 64 tracks of sound.  *This* is
the kind of music I want channeled through me, and I don't want to
depend on a bunch of band members being there to make it happen.  I am
very happy for Mingus, and all the other stone age musicians who have
reached great depths with their technological antiques.  I personally
find the sounds of archeology a bit stale, so why would I try to
become proficient at producing more of it?   

Unfortunately, I was born with only 2 hands and a couple of orifices
I can blow air through.  Until genetic engineering can improve my
situation, I'll have to be content with channeling music that has
been at least partially preconstructed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 11:45:26 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 11:43:20 PDT
Subject: DJ's vs Musicians...ad infinitum
Status: 

John Turman writes:

>Some had little or no knowledge of music, they just knew a couple of records 
>that people liked to hear and they played them and got payed. And I might 
>add, nearly all of them never even heard of BMI or ASCAP, (I used to ask them)
>so needless to say, never payed a dime to them. But they didn't refuse payment 
>at the end of the night after playing records that were represented by the 
>aforementioned agencies. I looked at them as destroyers of the very industry 
>they were profiteering from. They were taking from and not putting anything back 
>into the music business.

i agree with just about everything you wrote in your article, except
for this one tiny point...

the record companies should be paying the DJs, not the other way
round!  it's called promotion, and it's why many DJs get loads of
freebies from the record companies in the first place...  in fact,
we've got tons of records lying around that say "DJ promotional copy"
on them...

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 12:29:22 1993
From: PLUI@IOSSVR.gm.hac.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 12:29:14 PDT
Subject: re: Front Page of Canada's National Newspaper (longish rave article)
Status: 

Well, I must say that I was a bit surprised to see this article in the Globe.

It was on the front page, and it was bannered across the top, with a page-wide
picture of a raver (clenching her head, lasers in the background), 
and a caption:  "Rave's chemistry: pulsating lights, throbbing music, and
for some, an outlawed drug. "

We are less than 1 week away from a federal election in Canada, I wonder if 
the article is an attempt to make raves a political issue? 

The whole article seems to be written for an older audience: 

>"They only come out at night"  
  ^^^^
Those crazy kids! I tells ya!  Now, in my day...!!!!  (feh!)

It goes on: 

>Mr. Holtman feels that young people are increasingly depressed by their lot 
>in life, by the fact that so many of them are heading straight from high 
>school to the unemployment line. The rave "vibe" provides an antidote, he 
>says. "They reassure each other that there is hope and love out there. "

Unemployment is one of the most critical issues in this election. I wonder
if this article was intended to be some kind of warning flag to the nation 
(Canada) that if we kiddies dont get some lovin... then there'll be a massive
upheaval of kids on E, orchestrated by Dr.Seuss and Alice in Wonderland... with
glowstick-armed troops stroming into the lap of Canada's cities and 'burbs.

It's like a message to all the "I-wonder-what-my-kids-are-doing-right-now" 
voters. Almost like a guilt trip: "Your kids are depressed! They need 
reassurance that there is hope and love out there! Give them that hope for a 
new and better life, a new and better Canada: Vote for __________ . !"  *gawd! 
*puke*
 
The timliness of this article is sick :)


pat.

hmmm, mebeee i watch too many oliver stone movies?! :)
 
btw, there was a little blurb on E in the same article. Its called:

Fact vs Fiction: The agony over ecstasy

i'lll post it right away.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 12:59:35 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 12:54:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Aphex/Orbital/Moby
Status: 

i think it is time that what we think of as a "rock style concert" be
changed in format to enhance techno...this lip sinc play with buttons
isn't going to do it for me...i mean grunge fit this format (rock
style concert) wonderfully but things must evolve...any ideas???
partyon...susie(:



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 13:02:19 1993
From: rpcaras@srv.PacBell.COM (Bob Carasik)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 12:03:13 PDT
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. Dj-ship, trancing, and S.E. Asian food
Status: 


Scene in a fortune cookie:

"If you eat all this paper, you will go on a long journey"

AstroBoy

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 13:11:19 1993
From: drhiner@reed.edu (Denise Rhiner)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 13:11 PDT
Subject: hi...
Status: 

 
I'm new to this newslist.. 
I was wondering if any of you know a guy by the name of Brooks Talley.
He's from San Diego, said he was going to move up to San Francisco.
While in San Diego he was part of "E-Luminated Productions" in which
he did most of the lasers for SD raves... If you know of him or E-Luminated,
could you mail me?
Thanks,
Denise

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 13:21:41 1993
From: Lisa M. Wyatt <lwyatt@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 13:21:35 -0700
Subject: Re: dancing & listening to techno
Status: 


As for what to do while under the influence of sweet techno...
 
IUm not sure whether I could get through my my organic 
chem and math classes without the moving beat of techno 
and industrial music to keep me going. I often begin 
studying around 11 or so, and continue through to the 
wee hours of the morning with beat driving me most of 
the way. I enter my own little world, where itUs science, 
techno, and me, and it forms a rather intriguing scene. 
 
And every hour or so, I exit from this world by dancing 
off some of the energy thatUs been mountingup in me. 
Of course, IUd rather be dancing at a party, but at least 
IUm making the most of it, eh?
 
And I must say, skiing to techno sounds absolutely
fabulous. 
 
Live well.
Lisa.
 
 
 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 13:36:23 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 10:55:51 PDT
Subject: ???
Status: 

>I'm fascinated by the statement of at least one well-known
>musician in print recently that he's experienced another (non-human)
>presence on stage with him, the "ghostly other." What a trip.

Well, so who was it?  If s/he said it in print it's not like your
gossuping or anything.


On another point, right on to Gil for that last post.  I was becoming
anoyed at the rather simplistic blanket statements being made about
musicianship until you made the point that I would have thought we
all would have excepted as a granted, that musicians are human,
which means that there is a whole range of tecnical virtuosity that
comes natural and easy to some and hard as hell for others and both
for some on any given day or jam session and that a person who has a 
hard time can still surpass a someone who has an easy time by 
persistence.  Lots of factors make up a circumstance.  Jerry Garcia
says he'll never be comfortable in his playing on stage.  He and the
other members of the dead have been in front of more audiences than
any other humans in earth history (by my figuring) and he still has
terrible stage fright for the first half hour or so of every show -
so much that he has to concentrate harder to play at the same level
as at other times.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 13:43:12 1993
From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 13:34:58 PDT
Subject: techno and ...
Status: 


forget about driving, skiing, excercise, video games, commuting and all that
what's really cool is Techno and Melrose Place
the vibe is intense!!
Dave


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 14:34:19 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 08:04:28 PDT
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. the OTHER
Status: 

who was it?

*

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 14:37:26 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 14:38:53 PDT
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
Status: 


Basics seems to be the main attraction this weekend - it features an
all-star DJ lineup and a good reputation.  And Your Sisters' House
returns this week in a new location, call the number for directions.
I oughta be there this time...

Tesla looks intriguing and The Cat in the Hat could be fun if it's in
the right space.  I haven't heard anything about the benefit for the
Coalition on Homelessness - I assume it's been postponed or cancelled,
if anyone knows otherwise, please post more details.  Also, the EndUp
seemed to be closed last Thursday, does anyone know if Housing Project
closed or moved back to Wednesdays?

Any mail (new listings, questions, comments, poetry) should be sent 
to me at "dhchung@us.oracle.com" NOT "dchung@us.oracle.com".
           ^
    
Have fun and see you next week!


*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     	    Updated: 10.21.93
*****************************************************************************

Friday, October 22nd - Tesla
	Sound can penetrate any substance, move molecules and rearrange
		realities.
	SpaceTime Continuum  O.S.T.  Shobhan  P.M.T.
	10pm-6am, 415.267.5930

Saturday, October 23rd - Basics
	An unexpected smile, a spirit awakened, a life transformed
	Tony  Doran  Josh  Spun  Jeno  Jon Williams
	415-905-9629

Saturday, October 23rd - The Cat in the Hat 
	Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
	$10 before 11.
	415.995.4646	510.464.3008	408.236.2211

Saturday, October 23rd - benefit for the Coalition on Homelessness
	presented by YSH, TAZ & Aurgasm
	[is this still on? -dc]

Sunday, October 24th - plush
	Djs: buck, gavin, craig willson & jan cooley
	1190 Folsom, 10pm-4am, $5, 21+

Monday, October 25th - Vision of the Void
	techno/"bladerunner" music
	10pm, The Top, 424 Haight @ Fillmore

Thursday, October 28th - Surface Magazine Monster Masquerade Ball
	Jan Cooley, Neon Leon, Aaron O. spinning
	DV8, 540 Howard.  doors at 10pm, $7 w/invite.

Friday, October 29th - a wickedly full moon 

Saturday, October 30th - The Finale of Funky Tekno Tribe
  	Doran, Simon, Garth, Graeme, Tony, Spun, Thomas, Jeno, DJ Dan
  	415/266-8215

Saturday, October 30th - 111 Minna party
	8pm - live jazz and art; 9pm mad scientist dungeon. djs till 8am.
	Ernie Munson & others.  $10, 18+.  415.974.1719

Saturday, October 30th - Casper
	DJs Carlos, Moonpup, Dutch, Christophe, Rick Preston
	indoor/outdoor warehouse/coast to coast casperlink/recycle chill zone. 
	415.905.6441

Wednesday, November 3rd - Come/Unity
	Gavan  Simon  Jeno  Garth
	1015 Folsom, 10pm

Saturday, November 6th - An Evening at the Blue Cube
        Hey SFravers! its a party at the Blue Cube House!
        email resonate@netcom.com for info

Saturday, November 13th - Wicked - 415.512.5713
	(also might have some smaller Friday night events this month)

Sunday, November 14th - See the Light tour w/Moby, Orbital, Aphex Twin
	Also: Young American Primitive, Vapour Space 
	DJs Tim (Utah Saints), Jonah, Jeno, Alex
	All ages, doors at 7pm, $15 in advance.
	Tix at Housewares, BPM, Makato, Primal, Upstairs Rec, Underground Rec.
	Galleria (101 Henry Adams), SF 
	415.241.1560

Wednesday, November 17th - bjork, ultramarine @ the Warfield, SF. 

Saturday, November 20th - Come Together

Penelope's Web 2 - at the same location as the first, more details to follow...
	415-765-7671

Tribal Funk - 415.756.1531 - details to follow

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other goodwill 
	thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by flyers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their appropriateness 
in being on the list, let me know.  Also let me know when any of them stop...

---Thursday------------------------------------------------------------------

SFR South Bay Lunch - noon at Greer Park in Palo Alto.  
	e-mail larryc@netcom.com for directions.
YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-765-7670
	[10/21 - Jen, Charlotte, Jan Cooley]
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - Rick Preston, others
Universal Groove - Carlos, Ghost, Dutch, Dave Alga
	Thunder Bay, Berk.  9pm-5am, $5.  415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax - Acid Jazz w/Harry Who (San Jose)
Eclipse - 2520 Camino Diablo, Walnut Creek. open till 4, 18+
Delusions of Grandeur - Jon Williams, Robbie & Scott Hardkiss.	Ambience 
	by SpaceTime Continuum.  Visuals by Synergy.  10pm - 6am, 1015 Folsom. 
The Blue Room - 801 K st. Sacramento 21+ no cover before 10 pm
Davoud - 1890 Arden Way Sacramento (the "Rage")  18+  (916)484-4062
	[10/21 - Noel and Rob from Berkeley, Davood from Oakland]

---Friday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Mission Rock - guest DJs on patio, Alex & Kevin downstairs 
	817 China Basin - $5 - 21+
	[10/22 - Neon Leon, Gavan, James]
	[10/29 - Jon Williams]
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
Corduroy City - $5 - 11-6am - 415.974.9715
Dig! - Cleo's Cafe @ Haight & Pierce. Acid Jazz & deep house.
	6pm-?, no cover, all ages.
Hell's Kitchen - DJs Digit & Bobby T - 21+, $2 b4 11, $5 after.  375 1st St.

---Saturday------------------------------------------------------------------

Lost It - Steve Mitchel, Dutch, Richie, La Paix - 2am-noon - $5 - DNA Lounge
Housing Project - 6am-2pm - DJ Dani & guests - End Up 401 6th @ Harrison, 21+ 
	[might be nighttime now -dc]
Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - 4pm-8pm - cleo's, 698 Haight  415.487.6246
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762
Rhythm - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, Markie - 177 Townsend - 21+ - 415-281-3344
Diverse City - Jon Williams, La Paix, guests - $5 b4/11 - 415-469-2027
Energy - Doc Martin, Josh, Ghost, Willy Wonka, Jeno - 415-995-4787
The Fridge - on hold - 415-487-6305
Aurgasm - on hold - collective T.A.Z. - 415.974.9363

---Sunday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 6am-2pm - 415-979-8845
EndUp from 6am - 6th & Harrison
Cleo's Cafe - Haight & Pierce - informal YSH gathering - 2pm-8pm - free!
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Spundae - various guest DJs - 9pm-5am, 21+, $5 b4 12 - 55 Natoma  
Drift - the ambient club - spike's, 8th & Minna, 10 till 2 am
Tranceformation - 201 9th @ Howard - $3, 21+ - 415-267-6189
Punch Drunk - Cal's, 2001 Union St @ Buchanan - 6pm - 415-776-7036
Sunday Joy - 8th & Kirkham (in the Sunset) - 2pm-7pm - $2
Deep Forest - Carlos, Dutch, & Guests - 7am-? - 18+ - $3 - 415.679.8070
Flapjacks - by Curious George - 18+, 6am-3pm, $4 incl. pancakes. 510-505-8841

---Monday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pepper.  Deep House. Nickie's, 460 Haight, 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 415.435.8627
Mushroom Jazz - acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is, Alex, Kevin
	$3, 9pm-3am.  Club Oasis, 278 11th St, 21+. 415-905-8811
Depth Chamber - temporarily on hold - 9-2am, 21+, (415)241-1560
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@Montgomery) in San Jose.

---Tuesday-------------------------------------------------------------------

Together - Simon, Garth, guests - Big Heart City (339 Jessie) 415-979-8825
Jus' Pucker - House, Funk, Disco - the Bird Cage, 4822 Telegraph. 9pm-2am, 21+.

---Wednesday-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mystery School - 525 Harrison @ 1st (Sound Factory) - 21+, 11pm - sunrise
	415-337-4905
Tilt - nadeeah, jan cooley, aaron o., david harness, dani, larry reed.
	11pm-5am, 21+.  540 Howard (DV8).  415.957.1730	
Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X)  408.236.3787
	[10/27 - Tamotsu, Rick Preston, Spun]
Java - 2730 Harrison @ 16th - 18+, $6 - 415.905.6443

---Connection 2 Tapes--------------------------------------------------------
4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house from SFR's party in March
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr 
contact Bob Ramstad (rave-tapes%groovy@us.oracle.com) 
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund 

---RADIO SHOWS---------------------------------------------------------------
Friday night - midnite-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
        (mixing from 12-1, other tasty electreats from 1-3:30am)
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351 and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe/uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

(type 'u' in place of the '*' - i've taken out the 'u' so this message
 passes thru majordomo's filter)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 14:38:34 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 12:21:28 PDT
Subject: 50 iss. of SOURCE: graffitti bombers & Old School
Status: 

I  thought there might be some interest here...,


----- Begin Included Message -----

From ames!sol.med.ge.com!lawery Thu Oct 21 11:22:17 1993
From: ames!sol.med.ge.com!lawery (Robert Lawery  x7-4575)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 12:46:04 CDT
Subject: The Source Mag.
Status: R

Did any of you read the 50 issue of the SOURCE??  It retraces the origins of Hip Hop.  The cover sports Bambatta, Grand Master Flash, and Cool DJ Herk.

The interview with them is pretty cool and really worth reading.  It will bring back crazy old memories.  Additionally the have a spread on the old NYC graffitti bombers. (Who remembers ZEPHYR, SKEME-TNT, and FUTURA 2000 bombin' all over NYC back in the days???)  

The also have a real good quiz on the history of hip hop.  

The only problem I had with the issue is that the really didn't gove SKEME-TNT his proper daps!!!!  In the quiz the referred to him as a bombing king but the showed no pictures of his work which was really on and gave no bio on him like the gave zephyr, futura and some others.

It was a damn shame  Any folks who rode the 2 and 3 trains back in the days should remember what I'm talkin about.

Anyway, check out the issue its worth the 3 bucks!!!

Rob


----- End Included Message -----


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 14:39:35 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 12:29:52 PDT
Subject: Re: Aphex/Orbital/Moby
Status: 



I saw Moby a while back at the Galleria, and I thought he was weak as hell,
there was, IMHO, no good reason for his presence on stage, as for all I
could tell, he never did anything 'cept a (REALLY LAME) version of stuff
along the lines of "throw yer hands in the air", which even *I* could have
done a beter version of....weak, Weak, WEAK!!!!   Next?


*

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 14:45:15 1993
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 13:29:36 PDT
Subject: Re: DJ's vs Musicians...ad infinitum
Status: 

> 
> John Turman writes:
> 
> >Some had little or no knowledge of music, they just knew a couple of records 
> >that people liked to hear and they played them and got payed. And I might 
> >add, nearly all of them never even heard of BMI or ASCAP, (I used to ask them)
> >so needless to say, never payed a dime to them. But they didn't refuse payment 
> >at the end of the night after playing records that were represented by the 
> >aforementioned agencies. I looked at them as destroyers of the very industry 
> >they were profiteering from. They were taking from and not putting anything back 
> >into the music business.

Then J Drukman wrote:
> 
> i agree with just about everything you wrote in your article, except
> for this one tiny point...
> 
> the record companies should be paying the DJs, not the other way
> round!  it's called promotion, and it's why many DJs get loads of
> freebies from the record companies in the first place...  in fact,
> we've got tons of records lying around that say "DJ promotional copy"
> on them...
> 
> Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.
> 



I agree with you NOW on what should be instead of what is. But the original
idea of BMI and ASCAP was to provide a medium to allow the payment of royalties
to the performers who put the music on the vinyl to begin with. 

When I was a member of the musicians guild part of my union dues were for the 
payment of these BMI or ASCAP fees to allow my band to LEGALLY play cover tunes 
of other artists compositions. Plus it also removed the club owners from having 
the spectre of getting hit with copyright infringement suits.

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on what side of the fence you reside in
the music business, there are legal ramifications as to public performance of
copyrighted works. In an ideal world everyone would be happy that their music
was being played and promoted and given a wide audience etc. But, in reality,
greed and a LEGAL sense of right and wrong has its hold on the music "business"
and people have to get payed too.

I don't want to start a whole flame fest on the rightness or wrongness of
copyrights there was recently a seemingly never-ending one in alt.guitar and
rec.music.makers.guitar so there's no need to resurrect the dead here.

The way I look at it is, there is this complete, organized, legal elephant
called copyright law, I chose to dance with it instead of trying to do "the
bump" with it. Mainly because had it stepped on my toes, which it is wont to
do now and then, it would have hurt a lot.

I think that what you propose is actually more in keeping with the realities
of today. I'm sure that if there were a will we could come up with a way.

One thing though, it sure would be cool if there were song lists available at
all the raves. I'm sure that the distribution of lists at raves would be one
step in the right direction of reversing the BMI/ASCAP thing.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 15:43:54 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 14:15:59 PDT
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 

I have to agree with Lee, computers give us the technology to become composers
and conductors, with out having to assemble an orchestra (a very annoyed one
in my case).  So in that regard, were kinda talking about apples and oranges
now, musicians who play instruments are very happy doing it with others in a
band setting, DJs are very happy playing and mixing tunes, and electronic
musicians are happy composing tunes with an electronic orchestra.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 15:44:00 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 13:56:01 PDT
Subject: ???
Status: 

> BTW, grungewear is another media creation...

Ya, tell me about it, I was dressin like that along with every other stoner/
mettaler in the bay area and probably the country before Seattle was "credited"
for it.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 15:45:05 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 14:09:42 PDT
Subject: Re: Front Page of Canada's National Newspaper (longish rave article)
Status: 

There-there, Francois.  There's hope and love out there (are you reassured?).

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 16:25:34 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 16:24:18 PDT
Subject: Re: Aphex/Orbital/Moby
Status: 

> > that song by Young American Primitive (??? -- i think -- it's on one of the
> > early twitch releases) is from the movie "Videodrome"

> Videodrome is one of the coolest pieces of art ever crafted by man :-)

Also, the sample that says "I live in on over-stimulated state" (or something
to that effect) in "Disintegrate" by Salve to External on Twitch CD #7 was
taken from Videodrome.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 17:00:32 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 16:30:51 PDT
Subject: Re:  DJ's vs Musicians...ad infinitum
Status: 


> the record companies should be paying the DJs, not the other way
> round!  it's called promotion, and it's why many DJs get loads of
> freebies from the record companies in the first place...  in fact,
> we've got tons of records lying around that say "DJ promotional copy"
> on them...

Yeah  - I always get a kick out of records that say "DJ promotional copy"
on them and then also say "Any public performance of this recording is
strictly prohibited."


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 17:28:56 1993
From: "Comet" <COMET@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 17:30:59 PDT
Subject: Re: Orb minors leaving at two
Status: 

In-Reply-To: HQPYR1:SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU's message of 10-21-93 10:40

Well, at least they didn't empty us all out onto the street at the Orb show.
	O>=-------  Comet

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 17:29:18 1993
From: Monica Tauriello <monicat@gandalf.rutgers.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 20:29:12 EDT
Subject: what musick....
Status: 

i miss my car!!!!! tekno in my car was one of the best thingz in the world...
and jon d., one of the best east coast rave esperiences i had was being way
late and lost for a queens party, and then booking down the highway at like
80mph praying my car wouldn't fall apart with your set on the connection
tapes getting me thru it and pushing me on - we made the map point wiht like
only 2 minutes to go!

monicat

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 17:49:04 1993
From: Brian Sassone <brians@ios.sj.unisys.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 16:13:29 PDT
Subject: Re: ideal listening environs
Status: 



> I also find techno ideal driving music as well, good to keep your mind 
> off the monotony of the road and on the monotony of the music :) 

Yeah, but really good acid trance can be dangerous.  What?  I'm in a car? 

:)


-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-
              Activate the rythym that has always been within.
                    Shamanic, artistic, archaic revival.
-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 18:21:23 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 18:00:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Aphex/Orbital/Moby
Status: 

I've seen Moby three times and Orbital once.  Lee's right concerning
Orbital.  The music sounds just like the CD, so if you like the CD you
won't be disappointed.  The problem is that there is almost NO live
element.  When I saw them, they were cocooned in their equipment with ALL
the stage lights off (except for those glasses with lights on the side of
one's head which Tom nor I have been able to find for the life of us) and
they looked like they were just standing there.  In contrast, Prodigy (I
mean Liam Howlett, NOT those dip-shit dancers) had live playing mixed with
sequenced stuff (one guy jumping around behind 5 keyboards and a drum
machine looks pretty damn cool).  Moby was good the first time I saw him
in Feb 92.  Then, he actually played live the piano part of Go.  Now...
Young American Primitive doesn't play a damn thing live either.  I saw him
with Moby and, if you watched carefully, you'd notice that NO MIDI was
going from his keyboards--despite the fact that, after talking to him
backstage after his performance, he told me that he DID use MIDI to
control those boards.  Oh well...He's no Induction...


On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Lee Fogel wrote:

> > So will the Aphex/Orbital/Moby show be on par with the recent Orb show?
> 
> As far as a "show" goes, I would guess not.  I saw Orbital last year,
> and although the music was great, I felt myself getting bored 1/2 way
> through their set.  When I go out dancing, I'm used to a bit more
> sonic variety than a set of Orbital could offer.  And there was no
> visual element to speak of, which was the best thing about the Orb 
> show IMO.
> 
> I haven't seen Moby or A.T. live, but I haven't heard anything positive
> about Moby's performance.  If I go, it would be mainly for A.T. 
> 
> - leg of eel
> 




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 21:12:49 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 21:13:22 PDT
Subject: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 


DJs Don't Promote Musical Recordings - not at raves , that is.

 A recent series of posts have touched on the role of DJs as an avenue
of music business promotion . What follows is limited to the narrow
field of rave DJing.

 If a music publisher wanted to promote a recording , I think a rave
DJ would be a poor method of promotion. Looking at the standard operating
procedure at raves , it seems the last thing DJs want to do is provide
the audience any information on the specific cuts they're mixing.

I can think of a few reasons:
1. They're too damn busy.( A good reason , in my opinion)
2. They don't want other DJs/wannabe DJs from finding out "the easy way"
   what they spent time & money discovering.
3. It would cut into their "mystique" if the focus was shifted to the
   sources of the music instead of the tasty mixing of the DJ. ( Hopefully,
   this is a rare reason for hiding record labels). 

Are there any DJs you know that are exceptions to this?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Whenever I fantasize about being a DJ , I always thought that it would be
a good idea to prop the empty record sleeves up where people could read 
them. ( If the record had an anonymous sleeve , I'd write the info on it).
I thought that it would be a good thing for the advancement of the
quality of rave music , as the audience could identify recordings that
they like , buy them , and provide the recording industry some motivation
to pump more $$ to the musicians of "quality". OF COURSE , this assumes
that the artists most supported by the audience = the artists of higher
"quality" [ sounds somehow wrong , doesn't it ;-)  ].
 
 What we need is a CONSUMER REPORTS of rave/techno/trance/tribal/etc
music ...

Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 21:28:35 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 21:29:08 PDT
Subject: (Not Much of a )South Bay Lunch
Status: 


Well , it was only me and Phillip for lunch at Palo Alto today - so , since
the weather was good , we bought Burger King fast food and drove to Gree
Park anyway! ( If anyone showed up after 12:30 , I tied a note to one of
the trees ).

---------------

 A suggestion was made , to find a place that people could bring lunches
to , that would still be indoors. That would avoid the hassle of waiting
for service , cooking ,etc. , as well as trying to find parking near
any restaurant. I was thinking that a park with a pavillion or roofed
structure would be good. 

 Can anyone suggest a South Bay site that fits the above criteria?

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 21:42:50 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 21:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Who was it?
Status: 

THis was already posted so all you asking who the musician was weren't
paying attetion but I'll ressay it anyway.

	It was the bass player from Jefferson Airplane in a recent
interview with him by the magazine Bass Player or something like that.

Peace out,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 21:46:25 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 21:33:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing (fwd)
Status: 

--0-1591537789-751264418:#24449
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	Here is the original post

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      

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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 21 Oct 1993 12:47:56 -0000."
             <15400.9310211147@gamgee.harlequin.co.uk> 
Reply-To: c-blair@uchicago.edu
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 10:21:54 -0500
From: Charles Blair <chas@stax.lib.uchicago.edu>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


>> Who's the "well-known musician", then....?

The guy who played bass for the Jefferson Airplane, except I can never
remember his name without looking at it, and I don't have the source
handy: a recent Bass Player magazine interview. Well-known enough
among bass players to get interviewed, anyway. :-) (At least, I'm
pretty sure it was he and not Jack Bruce who said it; both were
interviewed in the same issue.)

It seems this thread might degenerate into DJing vs. playing. Not
really the point, I think. Many forms of art lend themselves to
"channelling the muse." There's that passage at the beginning of the
Iliad where Homer is about to recite the list of the Greek ships who
went to Troy, and says something like (again, no source handy): I, a
human, could not possibly remember all of what I'm about to say, but
you, O Muse, who remembers everything, speak. (Again, this might be a
really bad paraphrase of the original, but it's close enough for the
point I want to make.) Then Homer launches on this long list of ships,
where they came from, who manned them, etc. 

Now, by Homer's time invoking the muse might have been a trope, but I
bet that in the oral tradition to which long poems like the Iliad
belong (by the way, Homer subscribed to the "tyranny of the beat," as
did Shakespeare in his sonnets and lots of other poets; sometimes the
"tyranny" of a style, in this case, a rhythmic or metric style, is a
boost to creativity, not a dampener), I bet that those tribal bards
really didn't believe they had conscious access to or could store a
lot of the information they could relate, and attributed what they
could do to a transcendental force. (The Odyssey begins, Speak to me,
O Muse, of a man ...) 

In short, I don't think the point is about this or that way to get
there. For me the interesting point is what the "there" might be. If
it's calling forth something you didn't know you had, or had access
to, if it's transcending the _boredom_ of the same old thing, the same
old tired experiences, the "is that all there is?" of a (tired) old
pop song, whether it's through dancing, or DJing, or playing the sax
(a la Coltrane, another musician dude with spiritual leanings), or
drumming, or writing some code that you didn't know you had it in you
to write, for me (and that's my $0.02) that's the interesting
thing. (The Greeks had a muse for dancing, and for other things as
well.) The rest is style wars, (self-)image wars, fashion wars,
opinion wars, and all the rest of that ego stuff. People like Homer
must have been at times totally awed and humbled by their art (the
fact that a goddess could speak through them), rather than
ego-tripping on it. In some sense, they must have been "ecstatic"
(literally, standing beside or outside oneself, `withdrawal of the
soul from the body, mystic or prophetic trance'--Oxford English
Dictionary). I view the "self" beside which one steps here as the ego;
I approach raving as something I don't want to do either with my ego,
or without my ego. I want enough of my ego there to bring something
back with me from the experience, but I don't want the ego to
dominate, so that what I'm experiencing is the same old thing. The ego
has to be side-by-side with the rest of me, and part of the experience
is to discover what the rest of "me" is.




--0-1591537789-751264418:#24449--


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 22:56:29 1993
From: Amit Shoham <as@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 22:56:24 -0700
Subject: Re:  musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 

Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us> sez:
	
	It seems to me that if DJing works best for Jon so be it.
	Why should that have any bearing on ones ability as a musician
	or on achieving musicianship whether in the garage or the
	concert hall? With all due respect to those who play instruments
	(why some of my best friends play instruments :-) ;-) &+
	these days a musician doesn't have to play an instrument,
	visual artists don't need to bother with brushs or learning
	to draw to create terrific work. I'm musicaly naive but my
	understanding of musicianship is that it is a level to be
	achieved, to some it may come easily others will have to work
	hard and that it can vary from night to night for everyone.           
	
	Gil

There are two aspects to being an artist.  There's the
"eye" or "ear" and the sensitivity that allow the artist to conceive
of something meaningful or moving, and there's the technique necessary
to bring it to life.  These days, artists don't need to learn the
technique to create art, since the tools are available for them to
create a rough sketch (either a visual or a musical one) and then
painstakingly refine it to perfection.  The result is obviously no less
valid or good than the work of an artist that can immediately draw/play/
sculpt/etc. what's in his or her head.  But when an artist has the
necessary ability for creation to be immediate, the rewards are more
direct as well: the artist gets to be creator and audience simultaneously
and watch the work "unfold" in a way that is fresh in the artist's mind.
For most artists, once they experience "direct" creation, it is difficult
to accept tools that distance them from the art.  It seems to me that
turntables and other people's music leave you a lot further away from
the music than guitars/drums/keyboards/etc.

Amit

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 23:26:36 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 01:26:57 -0500
Subject: Re: musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 



I have played violin for 15 years.....I have played in several orchestras including
the World Youth Sympohny Orchestra @ interlochen.

I have also playe guitar for 5, sax for 4, paino on and off me whole life, and I've  
toyed with a couple other things (incl. full midi setups)

I can DJ barely well enough to save my life (if someone said DJ or die to me I'd  
probably lose a limb or two but still stay alive)

they are two different worlds....one is creation/replication - the other is  
combination/beat-matching

Its not appearant to me that you can even compare the two - its apples and oranges,
DJ's match beats - musicians hold them.  I for one see no relationship b/w the 2
go figure.....

--Kurt

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 21 23:44:48 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 23:45:23 PDT
Subject: DJs are poor promotion
Status: 

( My apologies if some of you already got this - I didn't see it in my
  SFRaves mail , so I'm assuming the original posting got lost. )

 In a recent post , someone mentioned that DJs act to promote recordings.
My opinion is , not so - at least not as well as other types of
advertising. 

 From what I've seen at raves , the DJs at these events have reasons not
to inform the audience of the recordings their listening to:

1. The DJs are too damn busy!
2. After spending time and money finding the good stuff ( and working
   through the junk ) , they don't want other DJs to find out the same
   information the easy way.
3. What the audience hears may be the result of a mixed of two recordings
   instead of a single one - there's no point in informing the audience
   what's playing on turntable A if you also need to mix what's on 
   turntable B with it.
4. Telling the audience what the cuts are would take away from the 
   DJ's "mystique" .

 Of course , there are some DJs that aren't supposed to be as close with
the info during a rave - Carlos was one fellow (?). Anybody else know
of other DJs that like to spread the word?

-------------------------------------------------------------

 During my fantasies of being a DJ , I always thought that it would be a 
good idea to show the empty record sleeves such that the audience could
read what the recording was - even if it was a blank sleeve , the info
could be written on the sleeve. This would help to promote the music , 
and maybe even act to evolve the music in a positive way. If more people
than the DJs actually knew what the recordings were , more of the 
"quality" recordings could be purchased , thus encouraging the recording
companies to invest more into the more popular musicians. [ Of course ,
this raises the question of wether popular/therefore/"quality" : I've never 
followed the purchasing trends of my generation , and that equation
has never been too valid to me ].
 

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 00:22:18 1993
From: mcorwine@comtch.iea.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 00:25:29 PDT
Subject: Hiding record labels etc...
Status: 

'course, if we all know exactly what this week's hottest DJ was playing, 
we'd all be able to find the records, shattering the mystique that 
enables DJs to be paid such insane fees...


--
mcorwine@comtch.iea.com (Matt Corwine)
IEAx for lack of a better name... (509) 624-0744

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 03:55:49 1993
From: Ian MacLachlan <ianmac@mol.univie.ac.at>
Date: 22 Oct 1993 12:00:09 MEZ-1
Subject: On-line event Today Friday Oct. 22
Status: 

Tonight in Vienna there will be an on-line event featuring music, video, and 
VR by STATION ROSE (in MONDO a while back I believe). This event is taking 
place in the museum of Applied Art in Vienna, Austria and features over 1000 
square feet of video. If you would like to take part we will be attempting 
to log onto v-rave (as well as a few other places) between 9 and 10 PM our 
time. Your greetings will be displayed on 20 foot high video to a room full 
of happy people (Cue the frog). The handle on v-rave will be *STATION ROSE 
IN VIENNA*.

Hope to see you there.

ian

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 04:53:15 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 12:39:18 +0100
Subject: Re: ideal listening environs 
Status: 


> Yeah, but really good acid trance can be dangerous.  What?  I'm in a car? 

I'd agree with that.  Once i was driving at night pretty fast, and
listening to techno pretty loud.

The streetlights rushing towards me complemented the music perfectly,
and I really wanted to just carry on at that speed, even though I had
to stop at a roundabout.... :-)


	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 06:16:59 1993
From: timoteo@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Timothy Blair Lane)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 06:16:46 -0700
Subject: Hooray.
Status: 


I love you.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 07:14:10 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 15:15:06 +0100
Subject: Re: Hiding record labels etc... 
Status: 

> 'course, if we all know exactly what this week's hottest DJ was playing, 
> we'd all be able to find the records, shattering the mystique that 
> enables DJs to be paid such insane fees...

Unfortunately, if it means that all the DJ's hot new choons were being
played by everyone in town within the week, then he'd have to spend
all those insane fees on buying a *lot* more records.  Might be a good
thing, actually....

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 07:42:32 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 07:43:01 -0700
Subject: DJ's & promotion
Status: 

Larry pointed out that DJ's, for the most part are poor promotion and makes
some valid points proving his theorem.

However, the one thing he does not talk about is that DJ's talk amongst one
another.  And usually that is the way news of a hot track spreads.  Now
some folks who DJ have the advantage of being recognized everywhere (due to
the length of time they've been playing, connections, etc.),  and as such
has access to record pools, direct mailings from labels, etc.  I can think
of 1 or two DJ's who fit this criteria (not counting the , uh, radio DJ). 
The info of a hot track does get passed down, and those DJ's who are not so
well connected (although they may be well known within a particular scene)
will end up buying said track.  This is one way to encourage sales.  As for
the sale of "house" or "techno"/"rave" whatever, you gotta remember, it is
doubtful you will ever sell 100,000 units.  The market just isn't that
large.  It's not pop so...

The creator/producer/record co.'s generally know this and tend to produce
fewer untis of any particular cut, than what a commercial label would do
for the mass market.  So the proces tend to be a bit higher than most other
12" for this reason, which , in turn restricts the markets even further. 
Also you have a problem with hardware.  How many records are made for the
masses anyway?  How many people even HAVE turntables anymore (with the
advent of CD, you can't even find full blown LP's anymore).  So, with all
this in mind, the DJ becomes VERY important in terms of any given track's
success.  Maybe the typical John/Jane/ or Harry (sans Who) will not end up
buying alot of material.  But the newer DJ's will, as well as some of the
vets, as well as radio DJ's, etc.  All of this helps in the promotion of a
record/label/track (since really all we're talking about is
exposure/sales).

As for the DJ mystique, and newer DJ's having it rough, well I would just
consider it a rite of passage.  Like a DJ told me most recently, "Everyone
want's to be a DJ.", and it's true ;)  There are more new DJ's than parties
to feature them.  Now you can't just expect to buy two 1200's and have
access to Markie's/Josh's/Jeno's/Garth's collection that they've spent
ten's of thousands on. Sheesh!  You've gotta earn your place within their
community, by being unique, being consistent/innovative/and proficient at
your craft.  The only thing this requires is time, and if you make that
investment the dividends will surely follow (i.e. an easier time finding
getting good tracks/ reccomendations by your fellow DJ's/ etc.).

One more point about DJ fees:  I think that they are ridiculous, and I hate
to pay DJ's upward to $250/hr to spin.  But consider the investment they
have to make.  During a typical buying session (at one store) a DJ will
walk out with $100-$200 worth of material (equiv. to about 10-15 records). 
Now that will not be the only buying session during the week.  Also
consider basic living expenses, especially if you life in SF.  When all is
said and done the DJ is, in many cases, breaking even if that.  If your a
better known DJ, then you'll be doing a bit better.  But even then the fee
may not even make up for the purchases of that week.

I do think that there is excessive ($700 - $1000 for a Sat.) fees.  But
these folks are few and far between.  Most of the DJ's in the area, have
reasonalbe rates.  And for the most part, I don't mind paying the fees.  

Just some thoughts on a Friday,
John

P.S.  PAYDAY!  Time to go out and purchase those 1200's I've wanted.  I
figure it'll be a matter of weeks before I would be easily able to unseat
the likes of a Jeno or a Markie ;)

Peace. 

================================================================
"I won't lie to the American people. I'll leave that to others!"
 - Ronald Reagan, answering a question regarding Iran-Contra.
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 07:48:52 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 7:49:25 PDT
Subject: Re: Hiding record labels etc...
Status: 

My mailer says that mcorwine@comtch.iea.com said:
> 
> 'course, if we all know exactly what this week's hottest DJ was playing, 
> we'd all be able to find the records, shattering the mystique that 
> enables DJs to be paid such insane fees...
> 
Yes, insane fees...like NOTHING for most of us.
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE -------- brycer@netcom.com--------
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party Dec93 -----
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 08:32:30 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 8:32:58 PDT
Subject: Re: Hooray.
Status: 

Timothy B. recent posted this to the list ( probably meant for eris ):  
> 
> I love you.
> 
Hmmm - that's nice , thank you! ( Did you mess up by forgetting to edit
the cc: line? ).
		Larry "Pathetically hungry for love" Ching
		larryc@netcom.com


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 09:20:59 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 12:20:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Hiding record labels etc...
Status: 

Insane fees? How insane is insane?

Hmmm, I wonder if they're paying taxes on all that income they're
making... :)

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 09:41:55 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:40:04 PDT
Subject: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

Larry Ching:

> If a music publisher wanted to promote a recording , I think a rave
>DJ would be a poor method of promotion. Looking at the standard operating
>procedure at raves , it seems the last thing DJs want to do is provide
>the audience any information on the specific cuts they're mixing.

it sounds like you've got a chip on your shoulder from being denied
your "right" of having a song ID'd for you.

>I can think of a few reasons:
>1. They're too damn busy.( A good reason , in my opinion)
>2. They don't want other DJs/wannabe DJs from finding out "the easy way"
>   what they spent time & money discovering.
>3. It would cut into their "mystique" if the focus was shifted to the
>   sources of the music instead of the tasty mixing of the DJ. ( Hopefully,
>   this is a rare reason for hiding record labels). 
>
>Are there any DJs you know that are exceptions to this?

all the DJs I know are very good about showing me the records, even in
the middle of a busy set.

i have to agree with john lee's article though... if you want to be a
DJ, you will find that having another DJ show you a record isn't the
most useful technique.  if you really want to know what DJs are
playing, start buying DJ magazines and going to DJ record shops!

> What we need is a CONSUMER REPORTS of rave/techno/trance/tribal/etc
>music ...

how about

	Mixmag
	DJ
	Street Sounds
	Move
	Urb
	idm@techno.stanford.edu

for starters?

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 09:44:51 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:42:55 PDT
Subject: DJ's vs Musicians...ad infinitum
Status: 

John Turman writes:

>I agree with you NOW on what should be instead of what is. But the
>original idea of BMI and ASCAP was to provide a medium to allow the
>payment of royalties to the performers who put the music on the vinyl
>to begin with.

yes, but the performers have to accept that there are channels of
promotion where payment of royalties just isn't done.  DJs have a
tough enough time paying the rent, let alone paying royalties.  for
better or worse, when you sign with a big label, you have to accept
that they are going to send out free copies of your work and you
aren't going to get one dime from that.

>I think that what you propose is actually more in keeping with the realities
>of today. I'm sure that if there were a will we could come up with a way.

i don't propose anything, i'm just reporting what already is.

>One thing though, it sure would be cool if there were song lists available at
>all the raves. I'm sure that the distribution of lists at raves would be one
>step in the right direction of reversing the BMI/ASCAP thing.

try picking up some of the free magazines like Urb or Move or XLR8R
next time you're out shopping.  if you want to spend some $, DJ
magazine covers far more records than you could possibly ever
find/buy/listen to...

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 09:48:15 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:48:01 PDT
Subject: musicianship vs. DJ'ing (fwd)
Status: 

All of this talk about musicianship vs. DJing remind me of a book I
read once, the name of which escapes me.  It was a modern philosophy
type book that examined what made people happy and what did not.

It said that people derive true enjoyment and happiness (different
from pleasure) only from activities that require all their attention,
allowing them to temporarily lose their sense of self and become one
with the action they are performing.  They said this is why most
surgeons love their jobs and would not give up surgery for anything,
why rock-climbers have such passion for climbing, why musicians spend
years perfecting their art.  I think this "losing of the self" might 
be what the "ghostly-other" comment was referring too.  In contrast,
something can be fun and pleasurable without lending true enjoyment or
fulfillment; examples would be watching TV or eating if its just a
distraction and not done critically.

But virtually any activity, as long as it requires all your attention
and challenges you, can help you lose yourself and become one with
your actions.  Be that dancing, creating music, playing music, DJing,
programming, writing, driving,.....

Makes sense to me anyway.

Sue

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 09:51:43 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 12:48:30 EDT
Subject: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

Larry Ching writes:
 >  If a music publisher wanted to promote a recording , I think a rave
 > DJ would be a poor method of promotion. Looking at the standard operating
 > procedure at raves , it seems the last thing DJs want to do is provide
 > the audience any information on the specific cuts they're mixing.

 > Are there any DJs you know that are exceptions to this?

Yes! Susan and Carlos. There have been several times when I or someone
else expressed interest about a track (either by pointing or trying to
read a spinning label) and Susan leans over and explains what the
track is and where to get it :). She's really into the music, doing
her own thing, and helping other people enjoy it. I've been murmuring
about getting some 1200s so I can do _my_ own thing, and she's totally
for it.

At Divinity, I heard a track that just blew me away. I tried to read
the label, but it was an unprinted backside. So I just pointed and
smiled to communicate "this is really awesome". Carlos smiled back,
and when he mixed it out, he handed me the record so I could read it :).

I don't get mad if DJs aren't nice, or if they want to hide labels or
that sort of thing. To each his own, eh? The ones who really are nice
though can make it a really special time for me, above and beyond the
experience of the music.

Sean

(No events this weekend for me. Well maybe I'll check out Ooga Booga
in Sac for the first time. Gonna move some furniture into my new place
(yay) and stomp around in the Sierras a bit (anybody want to go?). See
you next weekend.)

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 09:52:07 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:50:18 PDT
Subject:  musicianship vs. DJ'ing
Status: 

amit shoham writes:

>These days, artists don't need to learn the technique to create art,
>since the tools are available for them to create a rough sketch
>(either a visual or a musical one) and then painstakingly refine it
>to perfection.  The result is obviously no less valid or good than
>the work of an artist that can immediately draw/play/ sculpt/etc.
>what's in his or her head.  But when an artist has the necessary
>ability for creation to be immediate, the rewards are more direct as
>well: the artist gets to be creator and audience simultaneously and
>watch the work "unfold" in a way that is fresh in the artist's mind.
>For most artists, once they experience "direct" creation, it is
>difficult to accept tools that distance them from the art.  It seems
>to me that turntables and other people's music leave you a lot
>further away from the music than guitars/drums/keyboards/etc.

i'm smelling a whole lot of performance-oriented snobbery on this
mailing list and it disturbs me greatly.  i've been involved in just
about every kind of musical activity you can imagine, from thrash
metal live performance to live 105 style pop song recording in a
studio to dance music production/performance/DJing and i don't know
about this "distancing" thing... it sounds like another thinly veiled
excuse to put live performers on a pedestal.

everything has its merits.  some avenues of expression work better for
some people.  let's just leave it at that.

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 09:55:23 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 17:55:03 +0100
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings 
Status: 

> how about
> 
> 	[...]
> 	idm@techno.stanford.edu
> 
> for starters?

Is this an email magazine, or some such...?

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 09:56:21 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:56:56 -0700
Subject: Your Sisters did it again!
Status: 

   Yow!!   Welcome back Sisters!!!   T'was a wonderful party you gals
had last night.     I really like the new space.   Big,  No Smoking,
(which I suppose is a bummer if you smoke),   but the good news is
there is a small garden outside that is ideal for shose wanting to
light up.

   A few suggestions....   Need a chill out area with matts,  matresses,
pillows,  or whatever.    No place to lay down and stretch (Vital for me)
but I couldn't stay long anyway.   

   For those that didn't make it....  Tsk Tsk!!   you missed a good one
last night.

   And Pleese!! folks,  respect the space so the people who control it
will invite us back again.

Cheers
CC

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 10:02:17 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 10:01:40 PDT
Subject: Re: Hiding record labels etc...
Status: 


> Yes, insane fees...like NOTHING for most of us.
Hey, it's all supply and demand.  (Or perhaps the government should have
a special program to subsidize new DJs?)


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 10:08:15 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 13:05:00 EDT
Subject: Re: ideal listening environs
Status: 

Brian Sassone writes:
 > 
 > Yeah, but really good acid trance can be dangerous.  What?  I'm in a car? 

Yeah. Bobbing ones head around at high speeds can lead to serious
optical disorientation which can reduce awareness of the immediate
traffic environment.

Anyone been pulled over for thrashing in one's car?

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 10:12:04 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 13:12:00 EDT
Subject: How was YSH?
Status: 

This is the first one I've missed in about 4 months, so how did it go?

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 10:23:47 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 10:23:26 PDT
Subject: Re: Hiding record labels etc...
Status: 

> Hmmm, I wonder if they're paying taxes on all that income they're making... :)
I know for a fact that Garth pays taxes in the US.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 10:24:25 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 09:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: DJ's & promotion
Status: 

	John has some good points however I don't believe there are enough
DJ's around to support the record business by themselves.  If all the
party-goers were able to learn what was just played by a DJ the business
would sky-rocket.  This would create a more profitable business for all the
musicmakers that I never hear about (I hardly know any of the original
musicmakers) and would increase their supply giving us a wider selection of
music.  I hardly have any techno CD's or records cause I don't know what
to buy.
	I can't see any bad things happening except that the DJ's will
lose the secrecy of their records and have to buy more.
	And maybe I'm a bit ignorant but don't most DJ's have daytime jobs
to support them as well.  I could understand the DJ's that play most
every night not having one but then they are making enough money doing
that alone. 

Peace,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 10:48:27 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 10:11:49 PDT
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

>What we need is a CONSUMER REPORTS of rave/techno/trance/tribal/etc
music ...

I'd say Pete comes pretty close with his reviews. ;-)

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 11:00:05 1993
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Date: 22 Oct 1993 10:59:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DJ's vs Musicians...ad infinitum
Status: 

BTW, if you're all into sampling, it's great to be able to yank out a
  cello or a flute or whatever on demand, but what, as Frank Zappa, the
  KING of sampling, says, if you need the sound of a cello being scraped
  along a concrete floor?  Well, you have to get a real cello...

  ... THEN sample it!

Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 11:07:20 1993
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 10:48:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Jon D. on KALX
Status: 


Yes, that's right, everyone's favorite sfraver, termed "God's personal dj"
by some, will be doing the do on my radio show tonight at 12 midnight. 
You may even get to hear his voice, as I am planning to ask him a couple
of questions over the air.  Tune in on your way to wherever it is you
might be going tonight.  Here's a summary of the relevant information:

Jon Drukman on
the Mescalina show
12 midnight
KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM

See y'all there!


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 11:36:36 1993
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 11:36:19 -0700
Subject: Re: DJ's & promotion
Status: 

G writes:

>If all the
>party-goers were able to learn what was just played 

Rather than just talking this issue to death, I am going to do something
about it and post a list of what I played at the last Liquid Air.

First set:

	"Silver" - Beyond Silver [ESP, Belgium]
	"Tone Exploitation" - The Nighttripper [ESP, Belgium]
	"Opus Velvet" - Beyond Silver [ESP, Belgium]
	"Brainticket" - Rammin [R&S, Belgium]
	"The Cutting Edge" - The Dome Patrol [XL, UK]
	(forgot the name) - Ilsa Gold [Tension, USA]
	"Dark Black Ominous Clouds" - Disintegrator 
		[Industrial Strength, USA]
	"Raindrops" - Paragon [Frankfurt Beat, Germany]
	"You Make Me . . . " - Genlog [forgot the label, Germany]
	"Trauma" - (forgot the artist) [DJAX, Netherlands]

Second set:

	"Journey to the Center of the Mindcore" - Syzergy [Rising High, UK]
	"Plasticity" - Plastic Man [Plus 8, Canada]
	"Osmosis" - The Rising Sons [EX, USA]
	"Alice" - (forgot the artist) [Music Now!, Germany]
	"Slider" - (forgot the artist) [Skunk, UK]
	"Clanger" - (forgot the artist) [Seismic, UK]
	white label - Trauma [Labyrinth, UK]
	"Minimal Vision" (I think that's what it was called) - Afrotrance
		[R&S, Belgium]
	"Golden Gate" - Lazer Worshippers [EX, USA]
	"My Definition of House Music" - DJ Hell [R&S, Belgium]

I had a few more records in both sets, but I can't remember them right now.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 11:54:16 1993
From: Sean Finn <finns@smtplink.NGC.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 11:51:27 PST
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

Larry Ching:

> If a music publisher wanted to promote a recording , I think a rave
>DJ would be a poor method of promotion. Looking at the standard operating
>procedure at raves , it seems the last thing DJs want to do is provide
>the audience any information on the specific cuts they're mixing.

it sounds like you've got a chip on your shoulder from being denied
your "right" of having a song ID'd for you.

>I can think of a few reasons:
>1. They're too damn busy.( A good reason , in my opinion)
>2. They don't want other DJs/wannabe DJs from finding out "the easy way"
>   what they spent time & money discovering.
>3. It would cut into their "mystique" if the focus was shifted to the
>   sources of the music instead of the tasty mixing of the DJ. ( Hopefully,
>   this is a rare reason for hiding record labels).
>
>Are there any DJs you know that are exceptions to this?

all the DJs I know are very good about showing me the records, even in
the middle of a busy set.


> how about
>
> 	Mixmag
> 	DJ
> 	Street Sounds
> 	Move
> 	Urb
> 	idm@techno.stanford.edu

Can anyone recommend a good source for Urb in the South Bay? 

thanks -- Sean


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 12:55:12 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 12:54:35 -0700
Subject: dancing and listening to techno
Status: 

>Where can I get tapes of more faster techno...

Well, If Goa Gil were still in town you could buy some of his. He has
4 tapes which I just play to death (life). I don't know if they're
available at any of the stores on the Haight but you might check.

Rox

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 13:12:17 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 13:12:06 PDT
Subject: How was YSH?
Status: 


good time.  really really cool space.  really really.  hope it can be
used again in the future.

the first DJ (Jen, the woman who sometimes does visuals, from TAZ)
played a lot of weird semi-dancable stuff and the crowd was restless.
Charlotte (formerly from Chicago, but now living here) was second and
got the energy level up.  Both of these DJs were playing stuff in a
Chicago house / funky style, very unusual for SF.  Jan Cooley was last
and spun her usual good stuff (but to be honest, I'm getting tired of
her record collection, she's really consistently good but plays a lot
of the same stuff, then again I've heard her like six times in the
last three months...)

Next week looks insane, with Jen opening, then DRC, Susan and
Rebecca...  !!!

I think I'm gonna die next week.  Wed: Motion with Spun, Thurs: YSH,
Friday: levitate the stock exchange + FMR, Saturday: too much to list,
Sunday: George Clinton... but at least I'll die happy 8-)

Yowsa,
Bob


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 13:19:51 1993
From: Fred Wolf <fwwolf@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 13:16:43
Subject: travelling richies?
Status: 

I just saw this in the sfraves calendar - does anyone know if this
is richie hawtin or just some impersonator?

Saturday, October 23rd - The Cat in the Hat
        Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
        $10 before 11.
        415.995.4646    510.464.3008    408.236.2211


- fred



From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 13:38:52 1993
From: Kenny Eng <ke0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 16:38:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: travelling richies?
Status: 

>I just saw this in the sfraves calendar - does anyone know if this
>is richie hawtin or just some impersonator?
> 
>Saturday, October 23rd - The Cat in the Hat
>        Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
>        $10 before 11.
>        415.995.4646    510.464.3008    408.236.2211
> 
> 
- fred

richie rich is based in the new york area, i believe. he is associated
with a group called mixed up that was responsible for the b.u.g. parties
this summer in nyc.
  peace
  kenny
props to derek yu.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 14:50:38 1993
From: giamma@oas.olivetti.com (Gianmaria Clerici)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 14:48:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: **** Raising the Stone ****
Status: 

********************************************************************************

	The Great American Music Hall and Cyborganic Media present

		 Terence McKenna	Speaking
		 Spacetime Continuum	Ambient Music
		 Hyperdelic Video	Visuals
		 Robbie Hardkiss	DJ
		 Charlie Edwards	DJ
		 M. Normal		DJ
		 in the multi media production
		      Raising the Stone
		Halloween  -  October 31. 1993
		 The Great American Music Hall
	      DJ's Spin at 8:30 -  Show at 11:00

Raising the Stone is a joint effort lecture-Dance concert-video show based on
the written work of Terence McKenna.  

Announcing "Alien Dream Time" a recorded collaboration between Spacetime
Continuum and Terence McKenna on Astralwerks Records. In stores October 29.

********************************************************************************

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 17:14:41 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 16:54:29 PDT
Subject: Re: **** Raising the Stone ****
Status: 

The Great American Music Hall and Cyborganic Media present

                 Terence McKenna        Speaking
                 Spacetime Continuum    Ambient Music
                 Hyperdelic Video       Visuals
                 Robbie Hardkiss        DJ
                 Charlie Edwards        DJ
                 M. Normal              DJ
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

M, is this your debut or have I not noticed you were spinnin around?
Hmmm.  Pretty cool.  What do we have 5 or 6 resident djs now?

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 17:35:10 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 17:35:44 PDT
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

> 
> I (Larry Ching) wrote recently:
> > If a music publisher wanted to promote a recording , I think a rave
> >DJ would be a poor method of promotion. Looking at the standard operating
> >procedure at raves , it seems the last thing DJs want to do is provide
> >the audience any information on the specific cuts they're mixing.

 To which Jon replied: 
> it sounds like you've got a chip on your shoulder from being denied
> your "right" of having a song ID'd for you.
> 

 Actually, I've never thought that the audience had a "right" to know what
the tunes were - my point is that the conditions at a rave and (maybe) the 
way rave DJs operate do not encourage the spreading of musical information
( that is , what recording is being played ) to the average raver in the
audience , during a rave.
 
 I used to come up to the turntables every once and awhile to see what
recording was being played , but I stopped doing that , as I felt it
was disturbing the DJ's concentration. And actually distracting the DJ
from their work to ask my question would be even worst. Now, I just stand 
and watch , occasionally , because the actual process of mixing is still
facinating.

 That's why I think there should be a way for the average raver to find out
what the recordings are , with a minimal or no bothering of the DJ.
 
( I'd really hate it if the DJs started announcing each cut they were
playing! Yuch! :
 "On turntable A , I got 'Brain Butter Popcorn' by Fiercely Bubbling
  Oatmeal on the Whiter-Than-White label , and on turntable B is 
  'The Sound of My Heartbreak' by Dwight Yokum's Mutant Bastards on the
  the Prancing Nag label - on sale NOW at BPM!!!" )

 Jon later said: 
> 
> all the DJs I know are very good about showing me the records, even in
> the middle of a busy set.

 Well , if the usual case is that there is a "professional courtsey" 
between DJs , that's nice. As far as non-DJs go , it seems from some other 
posts that some DJs are willing to share the information with "ordinary" 
folks, which is the focus of my original post .

Jon also said: 
> ...  if you really want to know what DJs are
> playing, start buying DJ magazines and going to DJ record shops!
> 
> [ Jon also recommends these magazines ( idm? ) as good sources of 
    music info ...] 
> 	Mixmag
> 	DJ
> 	Street Sounds
> 	Move
> 	Urb
> 	idm@techno.stanford.edu
> 
> for starters?
> 

 I almost forgot - every week , the SFRaves calender lists local
radio stations that play rave-oriented music , so that's another way
for folks to connect a name with a sound.

----------------------- 

 It's occured to me that I've been assuming that the companies that produce 
the recordings want to reach a wider scope of customers that that provided
by DJs and other professionals - I've assumed that the companies would
love to have their recordings in demand by a wider , non-professional
audience. If my assumption is correct , then they would be interested in
promoting their music to a wider audience than DJs and other pros.

 If the recording companies and/or the artists they record are content with
the amount of customers they have now , then the present information
situation at raves is good enough.

		Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 17:46:05 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 17:44:14 PDT
Subject: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

>> all the DJs I know are very good about showing me the records, even in
>> the middle of a busy set.
>
> Well , if the usual case is that there is a "professional courtsey" 
>between DJs , that's nice. As far as non-DJs go , it seems from some other 
>posts that some DJs are willing to share the information with "ordinary" 
>folks, which is the focus of my original post .

i think it's just a "friendliness" thing... if you are intrusive, you
can expect that the DJ won't be too excited about showing you the
record.  if i'm in the middle of doing something, i don't like to
explain what the record is to whoever's standing there, but if i have
a spare moment, i might just tell them...

>It's occured to me that I've been assuming that the companies that
>produce the recordings want to reach a wider scope of customers that
>that provided by DJs and other professionals - I've assumed that the
>companies would love to have their recordings in demand by a wider ,
>non-professional audience. If my assumption is correct , then they
>would be interested in promoting their music to a wider audience than
>DJs and other pros.

interesting point... i think that most of the small underground labels
wouldn't really care - they don't have the distribution to get into
Tower Records, and the "general public" isn't in the habit of stopping
by dance stores.  so, there's no real incentive for an underground
label to sell beyond the DJ store network.

and anyway, dance labels usually hit all their prospective customers
(DJs) by getting their items plugged in DJ-trade publications.  so,
it's like I said before... if you want to find out what DJs are
playing, hang around with them, read their magazines and go to their
shops.

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 19:14:20 1993
From: Robert Campanell <robcamp@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Fri, 22 Oct 1993 19:12:10 -0700
Subject: "Cyberia" #10 programming guide and U Network affiliates
Status: 


Cyberia, Episode 10:
U Network, October 1993


Here's a guide to the October "Cyberia" episode.  This
episode features all digital animation, including the 
techno music video.


Computer Animations



"K-Rad Man"
Ian Haig
Produced at the Phillip Institute of Technology (Australia)
Mad Scientists, computer viruses, guy zombied out on video
games, television game show hosts.

"Mimesis" 
Elnor Kinsella
Produced at Texas  A&M 
Hearts locked in glass try to break outs

"When I was 5 I could see all the trees."
Michelle Robinson. 
Produced at Texas  A&M
Riding shotgun from a 5 year old P.O.V

"IRAQ 1858"
Ruben Cabrea
Produced at Kansas City Art Institute
Here's the story. of an unlucky soldier...A true draft
dodger at heart



Techno Music Video


"Flux"
Performed by Axon
Directed by Rob Campanell
All digital animation with tarot cards, famous buildings,
pussycats, choirboys.  Created on an Amiga using DPaint IV

"It time for Tekno"
Performed by DHS
Directed by Benjamin Stokes
Boom boxes, Ironworkers, Mechanical voices.  All digital
animation.  Created on a Macintosh using Swivel 3D.


The following is a list of U Network affiliates where you can see the
program.  NO TAPES ARE AVAILABLE FOR SALE.




Alma College              Educational Media Center    Alma, MI
Alvin Cmty. College       KACC-TV                     Alvin, TX
American University       A-TV2                       Washington, DC
Arizona State Univ.       Arizona Cable Connection    Tempe, AZ
Baker University          KNBU-TV                     Baldwin City, KS
Bemidji State Univ.       KBSU-7                      Bemidji, MN
BGSU-Firelands            Campus TV                   Huron, OH
Brevard Comm. College     WBCC-TV                     Cocoa, FL
Briar Cliff College       Cable TV 41                 Sioux City, IA
Bucknell University       Instructional TV            Lewisburg, PA
Buena Vista College       Innovation Video            Storm Lake, IA
Butler Universtiy         WTBU-TV                     Indianapolis, IN
Butte College             NVCA Student TV             Oroville, CA
Cal State - Fullerton     KSUF-TV                     Fullerton, CA
California Univ of Pa.    Channel 29                  California, PA
Carson-Newman College     CNTV-3                      Jefferson City, TN
Central Michigan Univ.    MHTV-34                     Mt. Pleasant, MI
Chadron State College     CSTV                        Chaldron, NE
City College of S.F.      Educational Access 52       San Francisco, CA
Clarkson Univ.            WCKN-TV                     Potsdam, NY
Colby Cmty. College       KTCC-TV                     Colby KS
Colgate Univ              CUTV                        Hamilton, NY
Colorado State Univ.      CTV                         Fort Collins, CO
Columbus State Comm.      Educable TV 25              Columbus, OH
Concordia Lutheran Coll.  KCLC-TV                     Austin, TX
Drake University          DBS-TV                      Des Moines, IA
Drexel University         DUTV Cable 54               Philadelphia, PA
Duke University           Cable 13                    Durham, NC
Dundalk Cmty. Coll.       Cable 6                     Baltimore, MD
Duquesne University       DUQU-TV                     Pittsburgh, PA
E. Tennessee State        WETS Cable TV               Johnson City TN
Elizabethtown College     ECTV                        Elizabethtown, PA
Eskine College            ECTV                        Due West, SC
Fairleigh Dickison U.     WFDU-TV                     Teaneck, NJ
Falmouth H.S.             WFHS-TV                     Falmouth, MA
Florida Comm. College     WHA-933                     Jacksonville, FL
Florida State University  College of Communication    Tallahassee, FL
Franklin Pierce College   WBBG-TV                     Rindge, NH
Gallaudet University      Gallaudet U TV              Washington, DC
Greenville Tech. Coll.    GEN 38                      Greenville, SC
Herkimer County Comm.     HCTV                        Herkimer, NY
Indian Tribe Station      WHTV                        Phildelphia, MS
Indiana U/Purdue U        College Cable 6             Fort Wayne, IN
Isothermal Cmty College   College TV Channel          Spindale, NC
Ithaca College            ICTV                        Ithaca, NY
Jefferson College         JCTV                        Hillsboro, MO
Kansas Newman College     KNCS-TV                     Wichita, KS
Kansas State University   K21BZ-TV                    Manhattan, KS
Kirkwood Cmty. College    KTS Cable 13                Cedar Rapids, IA
KXI-TV                    KXI-TV                      Columbia, MO
Lakeland Cmty. College    Lakeland Cable Network      Mentor, OH
Laney College             PCTV                        Oakland, CA
Lansing Cmty. College     LCC-TV                      Lansing, MI
Lincoln U. of Missouri    JCTV                        Jefferson City, MO
Luzerne Cmty College      TV-LCCC                     Nanticoke, PA
Marquette, U              MU-TV                       Milwaukee, WI
Mississippi State Univ.   MSTV-30                     Mississippi State, MS
Missouri Southern State   MSTV/K57DR                  Joplin, MO
Montogomery Cmty TV       Montogomery Community TV    Rockville, MD
Mt. Wachusett Cmty Coll.  WMWC-TV                     Gardner, MA
Muskingum College         Cable TV 8                  New Concord, OH
Navarro College           K30DG TV Corsicana          Corsicana TX
New York University       NYU TV                      New York, NY
Northeast Cmty. College   KHWK Cable 38               Norfolk, NE
Northeast Metro Schools    Telecommunications         Little Canada, MN
Northeastern State Univ.  Office of Special           Tehlequah, OK
Northern Kentucy Univ.    WNTV                        Highland Height, KY
Northwest Missouri State  KNWT-TV                     Maryville, MO
Oregon State U.           KBVR-TV                     Corvallis, OR
Owensboro Comm College    W12BJ-TV                    Owensboro, KY
Oxnard College            OCTV                        Oxnard, CA
Pacific Lutheran Univ.    KCNS-TV                     Takoma, WA
Pembroke State Univ.      WPSU-TV                     Pembroke, NC
Prince Georges Cmty Coll  PGCC-TV                     Largo, MD
Santa Monica College      SMC-TV                      Santa Monica
Southern Oregon State     Ashland Cable Access        Ashland, OR
S.W. Michigan Coll        WSMC-TV                     Dowagic, MI
St. Ambrose Univ.         TV-11                       Davenport IA
St. Joseph's College      WPUM-TV6                    Rensselaer, IN
SUNY-Binghamton           BTV                         Binghamton, NY
SUNY-New Paltz            WNPC-TV6                    New Paltz, NY
SUNY- Plattsburgh         PSTV-Channel 10             Plattsburgh, NY
SUNY-Utica/Rome           Instr. Resources            Utica NY
Syracuse University       UUTV                        Syracuse, NY
Temple University         Channel 55/OTVS             Philadelphia, PA
Tyler Junior College      Tyler Educational Access    Tyler, TX
U. of Idaho               ITV-8                       Moscow, ID
U. of Iowa                Student Video Productions   Iowa City, IA
U. of Mississippi         UMTV-12 Cablevision         University, MS
U. of Nebraska - Kearney  KSTV                        Kearney, NE
U. of Nevada - Las Vegas  UNLV-TV                     Las Vegas, NV
U. of North Dakota        UND-TV Ch. 3                Grand Forks, ND
U. of South Carolina      WCFG-TV                     Columbia, SC
U. of Virginia            W10CE-TV                    Charlottesville, VA
U. of Washington          Cablearn Channel 27         Seattle, WA
U. of Wisconsin-Oshkosh   Titan-TV 12                 Oshkosh, WI
U. of Wisconsin-WhitewaterCable 6                     Whitewater, WI
UC - San Diego            K35DG                       La Jolla, CA
Vassar College            VCTV                        Poughkeepsie, NY
Virginia Tech Univ.       VTTV Student TV             Blacksburg, VA
W05BV-TV                  V05BV-TV                    Starkville, MS
Washington State Univ.    Cable 8 Productions         Pullman, WA
Western Oregon State      WSTV                        Monmouth, OR
Western Wisconsin Tech    WWTC-TV Cable 8             La Crosse, WI
Yonkers Public Schools    WDMC-TV                     Yonkers, NY
York College of PA        WVYC-TV, Telecomm. Dept     York, Pa


   
----------------------------------------------------------------
|                        "C Y B E R I A"                       |
|             Experience Reality in a Virtual World            |
----------------------------------------------------------------
|Robert Campanell                  |Explicit                   |
|Producer, "Cyberia"               |2020 Pennsylvania Ave. NW  |
|George Washington University      |Suite 430                  |
|Internet: robcamp@well.sf.ca.us   |Washington, DC  20006      |
----------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 20:22:02 1993
From: "Comet" <COMET@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 20:24:23 PDT
Subject: Re: Hooray.
Status: 

In-Reply-To: HQPYR1:SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU's message of 10-22-93 08:40

In-Reply-To:  <9310221316.AA08713@ucscb.UCSC.EDU>;
   from "Timothy Blair Lane" <timoteo@ucscb.ucsc.edu> at Oct 22, 93 6:16 am
Larry Ching at 08:40 22-OCT-93 said:

>Timothy B. recent posted this to the list ( probably meant for eris ):
>>
>> I love you.
>>
>Hmmm - that's nice , thank you!
Thank you, Timothy Blair Lane and eris@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu,

I love you, each and everyone!  *HUG*           O>=------  Comet

>( Did you mess up by forgetting to edit the cc: line? ).
>               Larry "Pathetically hungry for love" Ching
>               larryc@netcom.com


No, I think we all spread love intentionally.  =D

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 20:33:25 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Ben Wing)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 20:31:29 -0700
Subject: Re: How was YSH?
Status: 

In article <9310222012.AA13377@groovy.us.oracle.com> you write:
|
|good time.  really really cool space.  really really.  hope it can be
|used again in the future.
|

Have to agree here ...  the space has the industrial-warehouse chic
down to a tee: girders, boards, steel frames, Texaco trucks, etc.
all over the place, super-high ceilings, weird shadows all over the
place, even the location fits -- right underneath the freeway.
Really trippy, really cool.

I think they need to work on some other aspects; for one thing,
the layout was kind of disconnected so there wasn't a unified feel
among the people there.  Also, the music was not fast enough and not
energetic enough, contributing further to the unfocused-ness.  (Given
the vastness of the warehouse and the industrial location, they could
easily pump the music up WAY loud and there would still be plenty
of places you could go to get away from the noise.)

ben

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 22 22:09:11 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Fri, 22 Oct 1993 22:08:46 -0700
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

Larry, Dwight Yoakum's Mutant Bastards won't record on Prancing Nag records
for another 23 years yet.  Or are you already hip to the next generation's
techno backlash?

If we could just get away from vinyl, and all that slippy-slydy stuff dj's
do, and used digital like real people, all tunes could have
digitally-encoded supertitle tracks just like at the opera.

alpha

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 00:41:06 1993
From: martian <turpin@stargate.apple.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 00:38:56 -0700
Subject: Another George Coates Sho
Status: 




Hey, this could be interesting to check out.
I never got to see Invisible Site, but many
friends gave it rave reviews.



_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

               G E O R G E   C O A T E S
                   Performance Works

                      PRESENTS 


                   Box Conspiracy:
                  An Interactive Sho

                 A Live Comic Musical
                 from the Creators of
                   Invisible Site:
                    A Virtual Sho

                  Music by: Marc Ream
  
                        in 3D


                 Low Priced Previews
              Fri&Sat: Oct 22, 23, 29 & 30
                      Nov 5, 6
             
                    $12, $16, $24

            Special Gala Opening Benefit
                Wed, Nov 10. at 8:00pm
           $45 Sho & Post Performance Party
               $75 Dinner, Sho, & Party

              Performances Start November 12
                 Fri & Sat at 8:00 pm
                    Sun at 7:00 pm

                    $14, $21, $31

                  Performance Works
                110 McAllister Street
                   San Francisco

                   Charge By Phone
                    415-863-4130
                    and BASS/TM


_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 00:43:27 1993
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 23 Oct 1993 00:42:59 -0700
Subject: Re: **** Raising the Stone ****
Status: 

> M. Normal DJ
M is recieving only the calander at this time but shes been work up an
ambient set on the Dennon twin cd. I think this will be her first time
at other than a privite party.

Gil

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 02:14:14 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 13:27:25 PDT
Subject: Re:  techno and ...
Status: 


what's really cool is Techno and Melrose Place
the vibe is intense!!
------

oooh, Sidney, smother me with yo bubblegum, baby!


*

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 02:14:17 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 14:08:24 PDT
Subject: Re:  DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 


I can think of a few reasons:
1. They're too damn busy.( A good reason , in my opinion)
---------------
definitely a good reason, IMNSHO...

2. They don't want other DJs/wannabe DJs from finding out "the easy way"
   what they spent time & money discovering.
---------------

this is, IMNSHO, WEAK!!!  It is in direct conflict with the rave
ethos bantered around here, an ethos which I respect.  HOWEVER, when
someone who claims to be down with the "peace love & sharing" vibe won't
*share* the musical selection they're playing because they selfishly
want to be the only one with X, Y or Z rekkid...I revoke their status
as one of the "peace love & sharing" folks..."can't play both sides of
the street, Sonny"

3. It would cut into their "mystique" if the focus was shifted to the
   sources of the music instead of the tasty mixing of the DJ. ( Hopefully,
   this is a rare reason for hiding record labels).
---------------
I said it before, I'll say it again...if you've got SKILLS, this ISN'T
necessary...having the records does not a mix make...


Are there any DJs you know that are exceptions to this?

-------------

Our "own" Jon Drukman is a delightful exception to it, every *single* 
time I've asked him about what he or someone else is/was playing, he's
been right there w/ the 411.  Not only was he forthcoming with the info,
but he was also correct, and in fact answered questions that had originally
been directed at someone else.  Good show, Jon.

Also of this list, Lee, has directed me to a number of cool records, and
is very cool about giving up the titles, etc.

AND, Lee's friend Christopher (not me, nor the guy at fluid last week)
has given me a score of titles, many off a mix tape he made himself.
Christopher gave me the tape MONTHS ago, and I'm STILL listening to it;
it's hella good, and he has told me at one time or another what nearly
every cut on the damn thing is.  Was he worried that I wanted to get the
records & learn how to mix 'em?  Nope.  Am I gonna replace him on the scene
cuz I know what his records are?  Are monkeys gonna fly out my....well, you
get the idea...he's got SKILLS people...

these are DJ's with SKILLS, DJ's with STATURE, DJ's wiTH COURAGE!!!  DJ'S
WITH GREY POUPON MUSTARD!!!!  JUMP BACK IMPOSTERS!!!  RANT RANT RANT RANT!!!!

PHWEW!

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 02:14:23 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 14:41:01 PDT
Subject: Re:  DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 


 What we need is a CONSUMER REPORTS of rave/techno/trance/tribal/etc
music ...

------

Kind of like Pete's XDZebra reviews?  ;-)

*

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 09:13:08 1993
From: Eric <EIVERSO@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Date:         Sat, 23 Oct 93 12:10:08 EDT
Subject:      Re: travelling richies?
Status: 

On Fri, 22 Oct 1993 13:16:43 you said:
>I just saw this in the sfraves calendar - does anyone know if this
>is richie hawtin or just some impersonator?

>Saturday, October 23rd - The Cat in the Hat
>        Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe this is the *real* Richie Rich? You know--the cartoon character? :)

--Eric

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 10:09:13 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 10:09:48 PDT
Subject: Re: Dwight Yokum's Mutant Bastards
Status: 


Randy Tinkerman recently posted this:
> 
> Larry, Dwight Yoakum's Mutant Bastards won't record on Prancing Nag records
> for another 23 years yet.  Or are you already hip to the next generation's
> techno backlash?

 -Note the "Mutant" in their name - those little genetic singularities grew
fast and died young ... they were musically gifted , though. Unfortunetly for
Prancing Nag Records , the Muties were their sole artist and money maker -
after the overheated cellur structure of the band simultaneous dissolved
during an extremely hot sampling session at a local foundry, the recording
company folded .

	Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

 
 

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 10:16:31 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 10:17:07 PDT
Subject: Another George Coates Sho 
Status: 

> 
Martian posted this:
> 
> 
> Hey, this could be interesting to check out.
> I never got to see Invisible Site, but many
> friends gave it rave reviews.
> 
> 
> 
> _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
> 
>                G E O R G E   C O A T E S
>                    Performance Works
> 
>                       PRESENTS 
> 
>                    Box Conspiracy:
>                   An Interactive Sho
> 
> 
>                   Music by: Marc Ream
>   
>                         in 3D
> 
 Does this imply that the music will have some sort of super-surround,
or does it mean that there will be 3D slide/movie/video stereo projections , 
as there have been at other George Coates shows? Or both?

	Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 11:11:21 1993
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 23 Oct 1993 11:09:43 -0700
Subject: Re:  DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

> covered reacord labels
Ya there are some excellent djs who cover some of thier labels and
I think understand raving in the full and positve sense of the word.

I think the question can be asked in reverse why should a DJ with
skills etc. be bothered by someone covering a label.

If someone is looking to add something they like to thier collection 
and are faced with a covered label, well not sure what to say except
that if you ask the DJ they may not be willing to give up the info
for whatever reason, but it doesnt seem to me to be a big enough
deal to warrent being upset about it. 

Gil

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 11:30:45 1993
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sat, 23 Oct 1993 11:30:09 -0700
Subject: Re: travelling richies?
Status: 

> Richie Rich
Well lets hope it Richie Hawtin (ei. Richie Rich out of Detriot).
Those of you yhat like the higher bpms and a little harder edge
might just want to check him out.

Gil

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 11:33:33 1993
From: wicked@netcom.com
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 11:34:05 PDT
Subject: Re: travelling richies?
Status: 

> 
> >I just saw this in the sfraves calendar - does anyone know if this
> >is richie hawtin or just some impersonator?
> > 
> >Saturday, October 23rd - The Cat in the Hat
> >        Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
> >                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
> >        $10 before 11.
> >        415.995.4646    510.464.3008    408.236.2211
> > 
> > 
> - fred
> 
> richie rich is based in the new york area, i believe. he is associated
> with a group called mixed up that was responsible for the b.u.g. parties
> this summer in nyc.
>   peace
>   kenny
> props to derek yu.
> 

	Actually I believe Richie is a DJ based in Reno who used to spin
in SF. Very good I may say  :)

	Markie  !)

 -- 

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 12:14:34 1993
From: dykhouse@emunix.emich.edu (Angel D'Morte)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 15:16:11 -0400
Subject: Re: travelling richies?
Status: 

	Well, there's a Richie Rich in New York also, whois on the FFRR label.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 12:52:02 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 12:50:53 PDT
Subject: Re: "Cyberia" #10 programming guide and U Network affiliates
Status: 

>Butte College             NVCA Student TV             Oroville, CA
>Cal State - Fullerton     KSUF-TV                     Fullerton, CA
>City College of S.F.      Educational Access 52       San Francisco, CA
>Oxnard College            OCTV                        Oxnard, CA
>UC - San Diego            K35DG                       La Jolla, CA

Is anyone taping this?  I'd sure like to get a copy, but all of these
seem to be public access on cable systems I'm not on, or otherwise
inaccessable.
                        thanx
                                &andy


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 14:47:26 1993
From: calvin@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 14:47:21 -0700
Subject: Orb concert/cabaret laws...
Status: 


    Hi.  A friend of mine told me that people under the age of 21 were
kicked out of the Orb concert after a certain time.  Does that have anything
to do with the cabaret laws?  I thought I read on the net that the laws
were repealed.  Thanks...

calvin@cats.ucsc.edu

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 14:57:29 1993
From: Juggler <IH23%UTEP.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
Date:        Sat, 23 Oct 93 15:57:29 MDT
Subject: Re: Re: travelling richies?
Status: 

> >        Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
> >                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Maybe this is the *real* Richie Rich? You know--the cartoon character? :)

Maybe it's the Richie Rich that appeared on Jane Whitney with the club
kids which also had GG Allin on. Wierd show...


---
J to the U to the G to the G to the L to the E to the R
IH23@utep.bitnet
IH23%utep@utepvm.ep.utexas.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rave*TechnoPaganism*Illuminatus*Tom Robbins*Techno*Rap*Folk*Music*Love
Laidlaw*Gibson*Prodigy*Orb*Shamen*Zero Zero*Consolidated*Funk*Ska*Punk
Coca-Cola*Empowerment*Equality*No Bell*No AT&T*Books*Intelligence*Trees
Flowers*Earth*Environment*Computers*BBS*IRC*Vrave*Togetherness*RaveLove
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 16:50:06 1993
From: lzrjx@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us (Technoir Industries)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 19:01 EDT
Subject: Re: travelling richies?
Status: 

It is not Richie Hawtin.  He is in Royal Oak watching a movie right now.
I have often read about a NYC Club Kid named Richie Rich.

PS:  Hi Gil!  Say hi to M & Peter for John, Brook, Xique and myself.

--Robert

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 16:50:52 1993
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 16:32:25 PDT
Subject: Hello Tai from Jason King
Status: 

Hi Tai!

I hope I have your name spelled correctly and thAT
either you or a friend who knows you can respond.
Jason King, of Imaginal Rave and Tribal Donut fame,
is trying to reach you.  He's not online, but can
be reached in L,A, at 1-213-223-2513.  

Hope you can make connection!

World's second most occasional sfraves sender,
Will

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 16:51:24 1993
From: wpenna@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (William Penna)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 16:36:49 PDT
Subject: Hello Tai from Jason King!
Status: 

Hi Tai!
 
I hope I have your name spelled correctly and thAT
either you or a friend who knows you can respond.
Jason King, of Imaginal Rave and Tribal Donut fame,
is trying to reach you.  He's not online, but can
be reached in L,A, at 1-213-223-2513.
 
Hope you can make connection!
 
World's second most occasional sfraves sender,
Will

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 23 19:01:35 1993
From: calvin@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 19:01:30 -0700
Subject: Saturday night
Status: 


    I just called the numbers for 'Basics' and 'Cat in the Hat' and I'm kind
of confused.  I was looking forward to Basics, because I had a great time 
at the last one.  When I called the number, it said people under the age 
of 21 might be kicked out after 2:30.  The message mentioned that it had
something to do with the cabaret law.  ANyways, I called Cat in the Hat a
after that and they said their event is 'all ages' and that alcohol would
be served (Basics is 18+ and no alcohol...).  I guess my question is:
which rave does everybody recommend?  I guess that's kind of a stupid
question, because nobody really knows what the cops will do, but...
I'd just hate to be kicked out of either event after 2:30.  It happened
at the last Funky Tekno Tribe, and I wasn't too happy.  Well, thanks
in advance for any answers...

calvin@cats.ucsc.edu

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 24 21:49:56 1993
From: sameer@infinity.hip.berkeley.edu (Sameer)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 04:55:05 -0800 (PDT)
Subject: To dance
Status: 

	is to fly.

The Orb has helped make this week one of the most favorite weeks in my
entire life.

	Seeya at Liquid Air. (Moderation.. math class gets tough. :-)

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 24 23:12:34 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 22:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bounced messages
Status: 

I am getting bounced mail saying cannot send for three days due to
nexsys.net being down.
Why does nexsys have anything to do with my mail to sfraves? I know some
of you are on nexsys but I don't get it.

Thanks,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 03:44:43 1993
From: bbehlen@techno.Stanford.EDU (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 03:44:39 PDT
Subject: New uploads to the song sample archive at techno.stanford.edu
Status: 

I just uploaded these.  Share and Enjoy.

AMORPHOUS_ANDROGYNOUS_Liquid_Insects_1.30-2.30.au
COSMIC_BABY_Space_Track_2.45-3.30.au
COTTON_CLUB_Its_Time_1.30-2.00.au
CURVE_Rising_FSOL_mix_2.45-3.45.au
DAISY_GLOW_Sunday_In_The_Park_2.50-3.35.au
DRUM_CLUB_Follow_the_Sun_2.45-3.30.au
EDEN_TRANSMISSION_Im_So_High_1.00-1.45.au
HELICOPTER_On_Ya_Way_1.50-2.20.au
HIGH_LONESOME_SOUND_SYSTEM_Champion_Sound_1.00-1.45.au
HUMAN_MESH_DANCE_Sunflower_3.00-3.30.au
MOODY_BOYS_Glitch_2.30-3.00.au
MOTHER_All_Funked_Up_.30-1.00.au
ORB_Majestic_Millwall_mix_5.00-5.30.au
RENEGADE_SOUNDWAVE_Ozone_Breakdown_4:30-5:00.au
SOIT-PP_n.IASP.3.00-3.30.au
SOURCE_Its_a_Kind_of_Magic_2.46-3.28.au
SYSTEM_7_Desir_2.00-3.00.au
TOM_TOM_Iron_Hamma_1.00-1.30.au
UP_ABOVE_THE_WORLD_Unleashed_in_the_East_1.30-2.30.au

If you have anything else you'd like to see up, either digitize and upload
it yourself or ask me and if I have it I'll do it too if I have time :)

	Brian


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 05:03:31 1993
From: Miles Pearce <Miles.Pearce@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 13:03:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Richie Rich
Status: 


I have a record by one Richie Rich entitled ' Don't Be Flash ' with a whole
load of scratching. Circa 1987 and from NY If I remember correctly.

Miles


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 05:30:53 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 12:32:01 +0000
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings 
Status: 

>  Well , if the usual case is that there is a "professional courtsey" 
> between DJs , that's nice. As far as non-DJs go , it seems from some other 
> posts that some DJs are willing to share the information with "ordinary" 
> folks, which is the focus of my original post .


Hmm.. and some DJ's don't like this DJ/non-DJ divide, but would prefer
it if you just thought of them as "ordinary folks".  They'll generally
be more than happy to tell you what they're playing, whether you're a
DJ or not, or even chat to you if they're not too busy....

Then again, I get the impression that some DJ's are convinced that
they're a superior life form to us "ordinary folk".


	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 08:12:34 1993
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:12:29 -0700
Subject: Re: travelling richies?
Status: 

>> Richie Rich
>Well lets hope it Richie Hawtin (ei. Richie Rich out of Detriot).
>Those of you yhat like the higher bpms and a little harder edge
>might just want to check him out.

Hummmm, last time I saw Richie Hawtin he was DJing under his own name,
and was playing very slow (125 bpm) spacey bloopy echoey acid stuff (akin to 
his recent "Plastic Man" release).

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 09:19:07 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 9:19:01 PDT
Subject: week in review
Status: 


Vacation has given me the opportunity to go out a bit more than usual this
past week.  Here's a rundown of the first leg of my SF House scene tour.

10/15 - Fri.  The Orb.  I'm not a big Orb fan, and "Little Fluffy Clouds"
still nauseates me,  but this show totally blew me away.  I remember 
thinking about how the show was all effect, with no substance, then 
realizing that this was OK, because the substance was in the effect.  
Well, you had to be there I guess.  Simply amazing.

10/18 - Mon.  Checked out Jazid Up at the Oasis.  Didn't get going until
about 11:30.  It's a nice, laid back scene, like a night time version
of Boogie Buffet's sun room.  $5, free hoerderves.

10/19 - Tues.  I expected more from Together, since I had been hearing
great things about it.  Simon & Garth seemed to be having an off nite.
The vibe was mediocre, but not bad.  Big Heart City is closing; Together
will be moving to somewhere around 9th & Howard.  Maybe a shift from that
dark basement will bring it some new life.

Thurs.  The new Somar space for Your Sister's House definately has
potential.  They didn't get to use the performance area like they had
planned, so held it in the warehouse/storage section of the building.
The music and sound system were was simply awful, and the there was a
general lack of cohesiveness, so I opted for Delusions Of Grandure
(stupid name) at 1015 Folsom.  It's been a while since I've been there 
at nite.  I won't go into details, but they have really gone ballistic
with the visuals.  Jon Williams was playing a fantastic set.
There wasn't much of a vibe there, but the sound/lights/music made up
for that.  ComeUnity should be insane.

I went back to YSH, to give it another chance, but at 3, nothing much
had changed, so I called it a nite.

Fryday - The map point for Tesla, which took us to 150 Folsom,
the old home of Deep Faith until it was condemmed as a fire hazard.  The
place has really been fixed up.  They had nice visuals there,  and a
nice little bunch of people.  But at 1, the DJ was playing head pounding
hardcore on a pretty bad sound system.  It wasn't really a comfortable
place to chill and we just weren't in a hardcore frame of mind. We hung 
out for an hour, before finding out that we had already missed Shoban.
I heard that things really took off later.

Saturday - By now, we were starting to get disallusioned with the party
scene.  We hadn't planned to go to Basics, but were desparate for *some*
kind of event that we could completely get immersed in.  We arrived at
2:45, just as they were finishing with the under 21 roundup.  Condolences
to all the 18 - 21 yr olds out there.  Despite a horrible sound system
and the complete loss of visuals, Basics went off.  Totally.  It
was a great party, as good a vibe as any Basics I have been to.  We
left at 7, only because the sound had deteriorated into pure distortion.
Tony and Jeno ripped it up it.  I can't wait to hear Tony at Chez Groove, 
where we know that audio will be stellar. :-)

Sunday - Momentum carried us to Boogie Buffet, which was fun, as usual.
I fist fight broke out in the sun room, and in the anything goes
atmosphere of Boogie Buffet, it was hardly noticed before being broken
up, and everyone grooved on.

Janie & I fly out today for Cheops and the River Nile, but we'll be
back to celebrate our 10 yr. anniversary at the FMR.  It seems like 
there's going to be a Casper afterparty at Marx Meadows on Sunday,
which should be a nice warmup for the Halloween BulletProof
Boat Party.

- leg of eel

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 10:29:55 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 10:29:38 PDT
Subject: Do you know?
Status: 

Sorry for taking up bandwidth, but does anyone know the name of the
charity that collects old pairs of eyeglasses to distribute to those
who cannot afford them?  I'd really appreciate it - I have 2 old pairs
of glasses.

Rave Related Content:  went to Basics Sat., and I had a pretty good
time at my first rave since moving to San Francisco from Boston.  But
I swear, every 5 minutes between 2am and 4:30am some security person
would tap me on the shoulder to look at my wristband, and they'd check
it REALLY carefully.  I mean, I know I look young, but geez.  Totally
ruined the vibe for me.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 10:52:08 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:52:03 EDT
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

Maybe we need two kinds of events. One where the DJ is apart, a
performer, and the attendees are the audience. The DJ should never be
disturbed, and the audience shouldn't know what music is playing.
(Perhaps stage hands could help enforce this.)

At the other kind, everyone is a participant. The DJ isn't a
performer, she is one of us. We're all there to connect and make
something. We respect the fact that mixing is difficult when
interrupted, but we're not afraid to approach the DJ when he has a
spare moment, for he is one of us.

I'd much rather go to an event of the second kind (YSH or Liquid Air
being a perfect example). I'm a 60s love child I guess. I just really
get into the togetherness thing, and I much prefer DJs that are
positive and approachable. They don't _have_ to be; I just like it a
lot better that way.

flowers to ya, :)

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 10:57:22 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:57:12 EDT
Subject: Do you know?
Status: 

Security people checking out my wristband at the Orb really spoiled
the vibe for me.

    "Your papers! We want to see your papers!"

America just keeps going downhill. Sigh.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 11:11:55 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 18:13:01 +0000
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings 
Status: 


> Maybe we need two kinds of events. One where the DJ is apart, a
> performer, and the attendees are the audience. The DJ should never be
> disturbed, and the audience shouldn't know what music is playing.
> (Perhaps stage hands could help enforce this.)
> 
> At the other kind, everyone is a participant. The DJ isn't a
> performer, she is one of us. We're all there to connect and make
> something. We respect the fact that mixing is difficult when
> interrupted, but we're not afraid to approach the DJ when he has a
> spare moment, for he is one of us.
> 
> I'd much rather go to an event of the second kind (YSH or Liquid Air
> being a perfect example). I'm a 60s love child I guess. I just really
> get into the togetherness thing, and I much prefer DJs that are
> positive and approachable. They don't _have_ to be; I just like it a
> lot better that way.
> 

Yep, I agree with you completely.  I have a friend who spins, and she
complains that once you're a DJ people seem unable to regard you as an
ordinary person.  I think that pretty much without exception the DJ's
who support the underground scene fall into the second categorey.

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 11:12:41 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:12:21 PDT
Subject: basics
Status: 


This weekend's Basics at the Trocadero was easily one of the best ever.

Often, parties at the Trocadero that feature Jeno/Tony/Spun/etc suffer from
being way too overcrowded.  I usually can't enjoy myself at a rave if it takes
me 20 minutes to navigate my way through the crowd just to get a drink of
water.  Fortunately, Basics ended up with an ideal-sized crowd -- mainly
because there were no under-21 people there.  I hate to say it, put the lack
of the under-21 crowd really helped make this rave a success.  The crowd that
was there was very friendly.

Musicwise, it was brilliant.  I can't say that about any other rave that I've
been to since Let Freedom Rave on July 4th.  Jon Williams and Tony played
amazingly fierce, amazingly trippy acid sets.  Jeno played a decent set.  He
played quite a few good songs, but his set just wasn't anywhere nearly as
intense as Tony's.  Spun followed Jeno.  By the time Spun came on, the sound
system had deteriorated to the point of unlistenability, so we took off about
a half hour into Spun's set.

There were only a few bad points.  1) The music in the chill room was way too
loud.  Ambient music is meant to be played in the *background*, guys.  2) They
didn't use the standard Numark mixing board that the DJs prefer.  Instead they
used the club's mixing board (which had knobs instead of sliders).  It took
most of the DJs a few minutes to get used to the new board.  Spun never got
used to it, so most of his mixes were a bit off.



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 12:50:58 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 12:44:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Do you know?
Status: 

i beg to differ in that the security were just doing there job...there was
a chance recently that the  cabaret law could have been changed but not
enough s upport was shown...the market street businesses were louder... i
have given up my zelous support for the legislation proposed because they
have added on sister legislation (which i haven't read thje full text yet)
the i don't like! so i think you all are placing blame on the wrong
people...i would place the blame on all of san francisco who choose to let
this law remain in effect...my vibe was ruiened before i even enter a
club....partyon...susie(:

On Mon, 25 Oct 1993, Sean Casey wrote:

> Security people checking out my wristband at the Orb really spoiled
> the vibe for me.
> 
>     "Your papers! We want to see your papers!"
> 
> America just keeps going downhill. Sigh.
> 
> Sean




From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 13:05:57 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:37:06 PDT
Subject: Re:  travelling richies?
Status: 



I just saw this in the sfraves calendar - does anyone know if this
is richie hawtin or just some impersonator?

Saturday, October 23rd - The Cat in the Hat
        Buck  Simon  Dutch  Carlos  Richie Rich  Kenneth Paul
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
---------

 does that mean Richie Rich from 415?  I would be *slightly* surprised to
see those guys into a house vibe, but stranger things have at happened...

-=Jack=-

  "now you're lookin' back...
   all dogs must chase the cat"


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 13:06:07 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:51:48 PDT
Subject: Re:  "Cyberia" #10 programming guide and U Network affiliates
Status: 

 hello,

What is this:-> "Cyberia" #10 programming guide and U Network affiliates ?

Chris

(This text composed by voice)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 13:06:23 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:48:46 PDT
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 


 If the recording companies and/or the artists they record are content with
the amount of customers they have now , then the present information
situation at raves is good enough.

------------

The above is rarely the case, I've never heard of distribution that was
"too wide"...

-=Jack=-

  "now you're lookin' back...
   all dogs must chase the cat"


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 13:19:11 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 13:16:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: rocky horror picture show
Status: 

ok now i am really scared...ahhh fox (chan 2) is going to have rocky
horror picuture show on tv tonight...(8 pm) (it will also be on oct 30 at
midnight) ahhhhh!!!! partyon...susie (:



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 13:26:34 1993
From: DWATANAB@uci.edu (Dana Watanabe)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:24:04 PDT
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

>> At the other kind, everyone is a participant. The DJ isn't a
>> performer, she is one of us. We're all there to connect and make
>> something. We respect the fact that mixing is difficult when
>> interrupted, but we're not afraid to approach the DJ when he has a
>> spare moment, for he is one of us.
>
>Yep, I agree with you completely.  I have a friend who spins, and she
>complains that once you're a DJ people seem unable to regard you as an
>ordinary person.  I think that pretty much without exception the DJ's
>who support the underground scene fall into the second categorey.

Actually i think there are quite a few DJ's (that i know _of_) that
would go for the high stage everyone glaring at them while dancing
show and cheering for them

but just a question...

Does anyone think DJ's should be untouchable and put on the level of 
celebrity?

I mean i have to say that when the musics on.. my mood/life
is completely under their control, so there is that sort of
goddess-like aspect to them being able to ultimately affect you,
but does anyone think our attitudes should reflect this?

 ,
dana

"Orange County? That's Orwellian. Like Hitler with sunshine."

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 13:40:50 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 13:43:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Another George Coates Sho
Status: 

At 12:38 AM 10/23/93 -0700, martian wrote:

>_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
>
>               G E O R G E   C O A T E S
>                   Performance Works
>

>                    $12, $16, $24

>                    $14, $21, $31
>

I got sent a fancily printed flier about this (considering the prices, I'd
hope it would be)- anyone have more info on this G E O R G E   C O A T E S
feller? Another New Media type, or what?


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 13:58:14 1993
From: mcorwine@comtch.iea.com
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:54:50 PDT
Subject: Re: rocky horror picture show
Status: 

Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu> writes:

> ok now i am really scared...ahhh fox (chan 2) is going to have rocky
> horror picuture show on tv tonight...(8 pm) (it will also be on oct 30 at
> midnight) ahhhhh!!!! partyon...susie (:
> 
> 

Edited for television I suppose?  Won't be very long I suspect...

Actually, they could get away with showing it without much editing but 
it's no fun shouting at a television, especially if you don't know that 
many lines... I really can't understand why they'd bother showing it on 
TV (I couldn't even understand releasing it on video!)

Obligatory rave comment/flare repellent:It all has to do with the 
experience.  Same loss of vibe with showing Rocky on TV as lost if you 
were to televise a rave...


--
mcorwine@comtch.iea.com (Matt Corwine)
IEAx for lack of a better name... (509) 624-0744

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 13:58:26 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:56:31 PDT
Subject: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

dana sez:

>Actually i think there are quite a few DJ's (that i know _of_) that
>would go for the high stage everyone glaring at them while dancing
>show and cheering for them
>
>but just a question...
>
>Does anyone think DJ's should be untouchable and put on the level of 
>celebrity?

yeah, sounds good to me.

btw, for all those who are beginning to suspect that i have a
monstrously inflated ego, this will PROVE it for you: i just got a
certificate from a project management training course i had to take
for my job - we got to select our own "designations" for the
diploma... mine reads:

			     Jon Drukman
		      has earned the designation
			 God's Personal D.J.

so, it's official.

(huge mega :) for entire article... although i really did get the
certificate!)

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 14:04:17 1993
From: rpcaras@srv.PacBell.COM (Bob Carasik)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:04:08 PDT
Subject: Re: Another George Coates Sho
Status: 


I'd say buyer beware.  His shows are well-executed multimedia spectaculars
*very* low on content and *awfully* self-congratulatory.  His promo and 
collateral materialls are arch and cloying and  kind of talk down to his 
audience.  But he's reall good at copping big art grants and his lighting and
sound set up are primo.  So don't go sober :-). I wish we cd all rave
 in his performance space.


AstroBoy


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 14:20:05 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 14:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Do you know?
Status: 

On Mon, 25 Oct 1993, Sean Casey wrote:

> Security people checking out my wristband at the Orb really spoiled
> the vibe for me.
> 
>     "Your papers! We want to see your papers!"
> 
> America just keeps going downhill. Sigh.
> 
> Sean

I remember glancing at a message a while back concerning a "temporary"
suspension of the the amendments concerning cruel and unusual punishment
and search and seizure.  Is this true?

Sami



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 14:23:11 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 25 Oct 1993 14:34:18 -0800
Subject: DJ's 'n' all that
Status: 

                       Subject:                               Time:13:42
  OFFICE MEMO          DJ's 'n' all that                      Date:10/25/93


>Does anyone think DJ's should be untouchable and put on the level of 
>celebrity?
 
     The answer to this question is no.  However; (not to sound too heavy but...)
if one thinks of a DJ as more of a Technoshaman there are some things to
consider.  While the masses dance the DJ is in a trance paving the way for
theirs to happen.  I don't want to speak for all DJs so I'll just say that when
I spin I get into a kind of strange space, somewhat detatched from particular
events and individual people that are around me.  This enables me to hear the
vibe inside of me and to try to bring it out for people to enjoy.  When I'm on
the decks it's not that I'm tring to ignore people it's that I'm very inside
myself trying to present my set.  

     You have to remember, a DJ is only a DJ when he/she is on the decks!

******* PLUG *******    
If you are in the mood 
please come by Motion 
this Wednesday night 
to hear me (Tamotsu),
Rick Preston, and Spun
*******************

Keep it Alive and Thrive!                    T. Scot




From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 14:41:15 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 15:41:10 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

Jon D:

> btw, for all those who are beginning to suspect that i have a
> monstrously inflated ego, this will PROVE it for you: i just got a
> certificate from a project management training course i had to take
> for my job - we got to select our own "designations" for the
> diploma... mine reads:
> 
> 			     Jon Drukman
> 		      has earned the designation
> 			 God's Personal D.J.
> 
> so, it's official.

Yes, but Jon, if you aren't careful about how you throw around this title, I'm
going to FIRE YOU.

Ego?  What ego?

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 14:44:54 1993
From: DWATANAB@uci.edu (Dana Watanabe)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:44:17 PDT
Subject: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

>dana sez:
>
>>Actually i think there are quite a few DJ's (that i know _of_) that
>>would go for the high stage everyone glaring at them while dancing
>>show and cheering for them
>>
>>but just a question...
>>
>>Does anyone think DJ's should be untouchable and put on the level of 
>>celebrity?
>
>yeah, sounds good to me.
>
>(huge mega :) for entire article... although i really did get the
>certificate!)

you know...
i was going to to say.. 

'Does anyone think DJ's should go around thinking that they are God's
personal DJ's?'

(huge mega :) for this waste of bandwidth... although i really
was going to say that!)

 ,
dana

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 14:53:34 1993
From: saeedi@shell.portal.com (Steven J Saeedi)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:52:42 PDT
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:24:04 PDT
> From: DWATANAB@uci.edu (Dana Watanabe)
> 
> >> At the other kind, everyone is a participant. The DJ isn't a
> >> performer, she is one of us. We're all there to connect and make
> >> something. We respect the fact that mixing is difficult when
> >> interrupted, but we're not afraid to approach the DJ when he has a
> >> spare moment, for he is one of us.
> >
> >Yep, I agree with you completely.  I have a friend who spins, and she
> >complains that once you're a DJ people seem unable to regard you as an
> >ordinary person.  I think that pretty much without exception the DJ's
> >who support the underground scene fall into the second categorey.
> 
> Actually i think there are quite a few DJ's (that i know _of_) that
> would go for the high stage everyone glaring at them while dancing
> show and cheering for them
> 
> but just a question...
> 
> Does anyone think DJ's should be untouchable and put on the level of 
> celebrity?

One of the inspiring aspects of raves is that everyone seems to be
on the same level for a few hours.  I am fascinated by DJs who are 
capable of Hypnotizing me with the music, especially until the wee 
hours of the morning;  And then I can just walk up to them and start 
talking to them about my experience and almost any other things.  I 
am surprised, tho' as to how many people don't go up to the DJ after-
wards to comment on the experience.  They do need the feedback.

- Steve
> 
> I mean i have to say that when the musics on.. my mood/life
> is completely under their control, so there is that sort of
> goddess-like aspect to them being able to ultimately affect you,
> but does anyone think our attitudes should reflect this?
> 
>  ,
> dana
> 
> "Orange County? That's Orwellian. Like Hitler with sunshine."
> 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 15:39:57 1993
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:27:50 PDT
Subject: MasqueRave in San Jose
Status: 

Hi all,

	Just a reminder that there is a house-party "masquerave" going on in
San Jose on Friday the 29th. I still have not been succesful in attracting a
DJ for this event, so it appears that taped and CD music will have to suffice,
for this. Fortunately one of my friends has a plethora of excellent rave music
in both formats, so we'll try our best to have a good groove anyway.

Also this is FREE to one and all, I will supply bottled water, music, venue, and 
masks for those that aren't in costume. If you wish to drink something other than
bottled H2O bring your own.

Please reply to me at my E-Mail address for directions.

Cheers,

John Turman

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 15:40:39 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 15:40:49 -0700
Subject: Re:  basics
Status: 

I thought it was alright, I liked the last basics better w/ 18 and over crowd a   
and dj booth in the middle and huge suround-soundsystems. Tracadero has to invest in n   
vest in better sound systems, crowd control(so they don't flash you in the face
6 quadrilion times). I wish they played more house though it was pretty good a     
acid sets they played.

Hoss

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 16:13:19 1993
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 16:13:06 -0700
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

Steve says:

>I am surprised, tho' as to how many people don't go up to the DJ after-
>wards to comment on the experience.  They do need the feedback.

Yes yes yes!  It's very LONELY to be in the booth with my records for
an hour+, and then to come out and to not get feedback.  You get this
weird rush doing a good set, and smiles and hugs from friends and random
people afterwards goes a long way toward normalizing things again so I can
continue on and enjoy the party.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 17:00:04 1993
From: Thomas Christopher Cuellar <chris@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 16:52:33
Subject: help...
Status: 

I'm a newbie to sfraves, and so here's my dilemma...
I live in Oakland, have no car, but totally dig techno. I won tix to see
the Orb at the Warfield, but noone I know likes techno, so i had to sit at
home and listen to my techno, close my eyes, and imagine what the crowd
musta looked like...I live near the 19th Street BART station, but BART
doesn't run until 6:00 on the weekend and the show supposedly ended at
4:00 a.m. I wasn't too keen on walking all by myself to the transbay
terminal at 4:00 am, so anyway...is there anyone who lives in the eastbay
who would be willing to transport my wife (yes, i'm married) and myself
safely to and from any raves they may be going to ?  I would really
appreciate it, cause, actually, i've never been to a rave because of my
nocar disability..Thanks!  ------> Thomas  (Spinister on irc)



From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 17:08:46 1993
From: Ravi Vinodrai Gadhia <rg@CS.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 17:08:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tesla
Status: 

Hey All,

Hope everyone had a good weekend,...the year's almost over.  eeks!

Friday, I went to Tesla.  This party had a really good underground
feel...maybe too underground!  We arrived at 1 AM or so & Shobhan
was playing a good,fast,trippy set.  There was free beer (beer?!)
and people were socializing/drinking/& kinda dancing.

After Shobhan, came a DJ who played a pretty hardcore set that
drove away most of the crowd--a shame because around 3 AM, the 
music got CRAZZZY (good) and then SpaceTime Continuum come on
with a great set that got *everyone* tripping all over the place.  

With a nice vibe finally established, the party pumped along until
6ish when things turned Ambient.  Probably only 20 or 30 people
stayed until the end giving the party a very intimate feeling.

Fun for the party-goers, but the promoters were disappointed 
at the turnout.  :(  Oh well...  


Have a great week!
Ravi




From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 19:56:23 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Ben Wing)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 19:56:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Do you know?
Status: 

About that security ...

At about 2am I went to Basics with a couple friends, one of whom was
under 21 ...  as soon as we found this out, we stopped and tried to
figure out what to do, and eventually took off.  By this point we
realized that the best thing to do would have been to just go on in
at the start and act like nothing was amiss.  Jen (the under-21'er) was
20 and about to turn 21, and we figured they might not notice.  Of
course, we had spoiled our chance by hanging around and making it
obvious there was a problem.  So we went home to see if there were
any other raves, but the only one was at 16th/Harrison, which we had
no interest in going to.  (and it was $20, too)  So eventually
(around 3:45) we decided to go back and try again.  Jen went first,
and did indeed get in.  I was last, and as I went through, the guy
said, "Hmm ...  weren't you the guy here before with the girl who
was under 21?"  I just stared at him and he eventually said, "Ah
fuck, it's late ...  I don't really care anyway."

ben

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 22:04:41 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 15:04:40 PDT
Subject: Re: Do you know the way to cabaret?
Status: 

Hello,

So what is the final word on the cabaret law?  Was anything
decided and finalized?

Chris

(This text composed by voice)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 22:05:17 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 15:09:35 PDT
Subject: Re: DJ Don't Promote Musical Recordings
Status: 

Does anyone think DJ's should be untouchable and put on the level of 
celebrity?

I mean i have to say that when the musics on.. my mood/life
is completely under their control, so there is that sort of
goddess-like aspect to them being able to ultimately affect you,
but does anyone think our attitudes should reflect this?

---------

 realistically, there isn't much of a way to resist it, but if George
Clinton can deal with his audience without egotism, I'd think a DJ could
do it as well... some people let it go to their heads and others don't...

Chris

(This text composed by voice)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 22:05:18 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 16:13:24 PDT
Subject: Re: Another George Coates Sho
Status: 


I'd say buyer beware.  His shows are well-executed multimedia spectaculars
*very* low on content and *awfully* self-congratulatory.  His promo and 
collateral materialls are arch and cloying and  kind of talk down to his 
audience.  But he's reall good at copping big art grants and his lighting and
sound set up are primo.  So don't go sober :-). I wish we cd all rave
 in his performance space.
------------

Yeah, I have been put off by his Ultra-PC-High-Ivory-Tower-Art-Intelligencia
type stylings of a bygone (see ya!) era.  Like back when non-conservatives
started becoming apologists in the face of Reaganism and the era of the
(forgive this gender specific ref.) castrated NEA...this guy ain't got
'nuff grit fer me...


*

From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 22:08:48 1993
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 21:46:58 -0700
Subject: weekend deadhorse show...
Status: 

I did not make it out on Friday or on Wednesday so I have nothing to say
about those two days.  But I have plenty to say about this Sat/Sun.

Sat. I went to BASICS.  I saw what I expected, and was not disappointed.  I
knew that @ 2:30 the "minors" would have to go, and I was gonna go with
them, right over to Rhythm.  But I asked one of the Basics Family what was
up, and they said that gurads wouldbe going thru the crowd looking for
armbands.  After about 45 minutes, they got all 21-- off the florr without
major interruption of the party.  If I were >18 && <21  I would not have
gone to the party.  Cab laws suck, and people should not pay good money to
go home @ 2:30.  Weak.

The "vibe" was absent by my account.  I mean, if you're "straight", and
wanted to go out, BASICS was the place to be.  Lots of hetero action, lots
of scamming, just lots of the usual.  No alcohol, which was a real bummer. 
Plenty of smoke(ing).  I like the Troc, too bad not much was done to it. 
That brings me to the next issue:

SOUND!

The sound sucked.  There is no better way of putting it.  Mostly either 
DISTORTED BASS or SCREAMING HIGHS.  There was no balance.  There was
however plenty of feedback, since they did not use sandboxes (or if they
did, they did not use them correctly for the Troc.  You need FOAM for that
place as well [wood, bouncy, floors]).  People were out of their heads, so
they danced anyway.  Bad sound killed whatever "vibe" people were trying to
get.  Despite that the DJ's did pretty well.  I was impressed by Tony
(again!), and Josh did the do.  Jeno was a bit off that night.  He did not
do it like he did it at Rhythm the previous week. Spun was incredible, but
after hours of that brutal sound system, people just could not keep up. 
Spun was wicked nonetheless!  I attribute the bad sound to feedback and a
shitty soundsystem.  A soundcheck next time would do wonders for such
situations.

There were hella tweekers there, but it was fun to see them after all this time.

Halloween:  I dunno.  I may just trip at home.  I know that there will be
two parties.  I know where they will be.  I think that I've done my
Halloween partying before, so there may not be a need to push any limits. 
The Boat Party sounds quite good tho.  But more later.

Cooled my brain (Sunday Morn.) at my partner's house.  Got up at around
12:30 to go to the Boogie.  It was hittin!  Felix was fucking it up, but
since I had already drank a 40 oz. of Crazy Horse, still feeling the efx of
some great "Hug Potion", I decided to put on the training wheels and head
home at 3:30p.  Besides, Preston ran out of drink tickets, and it was hot. 
I had no intention of spending $40 on drinks (easily done whilst frying),
so's I left.  Great party tho!!!

PS - The Troc is a nice club!!!

=========

Look, if I EVER ask anyone to pay $10-$15 to go to any of my gigs, rest
assured the sound will be the ONE.  Anything less is weakness and uncaring.
 Having a shitty soundsystem is a good enough reaon not to throw a party. 
Not doing a soundcheck is another.  This is one of the MANY reasons people
are saying "The Scene is Dead".

The "scene" as we all knew it 2 years ago is quite dead.  The scene we knew
a year ago is still dead.  The scene next year will make this one obsolete
too.  The scene is always re-inventing itself.  This year (YTD), has stunk.
 There have been a few bright spots, but this year is as good as gone. 
Parties are the shit if they are smaller, and more intimate.  Massives are
over.  They are the dead horse of the house scene.  People just are not
into massives anymore (Thank G-D!).  Large parties are cool (check Rhythm),
but MASSIVES are decidedly out.

The people who throw massives didn't care enough to put heart behind what
they were doing.  Parties getting shut down, stupid cab laws (which BTW are
being revised just as this "scene" becomes better defined - read thinning
out [PS shoulda done it sooner folx :( ]), greedy promoters, greedy DJ's,
fights, shootings, stabbings, tweekers, bad attitudes, politics, and
general rubbish have caused this scene to thin out.

That is all fine with me.  Since the only people who are left are those who
want to do things differently.  The people left are people who care about
the people attending their show.  And even though there may not be as many
parties, or many more massives, there will always be some choice parties to
check out every week, so don't lose heart.

It's mind-numbing to realize the speed that things change.  And if you
compare it to LA, we're still on top in terms of general integrity, and
DJ's (the best are in or soon will be in SF, PERIOD!!!).

=======

Derrick Carter is coming back to town soon.  Can't wait to hear him spin. 
He is the ONE.  Mark Farina soon, non?

John Howard has some new tapes made this week!  Gonna get mine!  Check him
out if you're out, or go to Boogie in the morning.

Nitty Gritty video "Let Your Backbone Slide" is available.  $25 for 45
minutes of the house scene in SF.  Great narrations, and crackin on!  Mail
me for your copy.

URB SFDisco section is going thru major politix.  Look for new writers soon
(long overdue!).




================================================================
"I won't lie to the American people. I'll leave that to others!"
 - Ronald Reagan, answering a question regarding Iran-Contra.
                 from the village of jsl@netcom.com 
=================================================================


From sfraves-owner  Mon Oct 25 22:22:56 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 22:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Chief Warkiller
Status: 


	Last Friday, wilma Mankiller, chief of the Cherokee Nation spoke
here at UCDavis.  It was pretty interesting hearing about how the
Cherokees' act like another nation almost.  They have their own schools,
hospitals, even welfare systems etc.  she talked mostly about the past and
how she came to become chief.
	She said something that caught my ears:
I'm not sure how to spell so I'll just spell it how it sounded.  If
anybody knows the correct spelling or can elaborate on it please do!
	She said "shaw-du-gay" which means the gathering of people for the
benefit of all.  Sounds like a good rave name to me :)

Peace,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 08:32:26 1993
From: nrg@netcom.com (Ethan I. Miller)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 8:32:23 PDT
Subject: Cabaret Meeetin Today
Status: 

Apparently the Sf sups are meeting today to render a final verdict on
whether or not to change the cabaret law. Phone calls to all sups ASAP
might be a great idea.

Hallinan:  554-7766
Leal:  554-6644
Shelley: 554-4005
Bierman: 554-6661
Conroy: 554-7751
Hsieh: 554-5015
Kaufman: 554-4880
Kennedy: 554-4880
Maher: 554-5401
Migden: 554-4033
Alioto: 554-7788

see ya later
ethan
-- 

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 09:34:16 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 08:44:23 PDT
Subject: What day/night is FMR???
Status: 



well, that about says it...what night is the FMR this month??

*

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 09:34:27 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 08:46:59 PDT
Subject: Re:  help...
Status: 


I am hoping to do the FMR this month as I've missed it
the last couple of times.  Are you interested in that?
I live in SF, but I could swing out to the OAK to get you if you
want.  I may also be going with a guy from Berkeley, so...
drop a line if you want to go...


*

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 09:36:28 1993
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 07:31:42 PDT
Subject: Re: MasqueRave in San Jose
Status: 

Yesterday it appeared that we would not be successful in getting a DJ for the
party, BUT now it appears that there will be not one but two DJ's and also there 
will be visuals by Mathew. The DJ's will be starting at about 1:30 AM so until then
we will make do with CD's and tapes. And YES we will take requests and play em if 
we got em.

We plan on starting at 8:00 PM with some ambient, and other sounds just to get
everyone peaceful and relaxed before the frenetic dance frenzy starts at 1:30.
We figure to go as long as you can so at least till 8:00 AM.

Oh and we will supply Jolly Rancher blow pops and masks too. So hey, what do you 
have to lose? It's FREE. Friday night, Oct. 29th be there.

RSVP to
john@makesys.com
or 
John Turman work 415-941-9800 ext.124

Kippis, (Finnish for cheers)

John T.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 10:20:31 1993
From: howardb@enlil.premenos.sf.ca.us (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 10:18:07 -0800 (PDT)
Subject: Re: What day/night is FMR???
Status: 

> 
> 
> 
> well, that about says it...what night is the FMR this month??
> 
> *
> 

My calendar says Friday.  

-H-


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 11:16:14 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 09:41:18 PDT
Subject: Re:  Cabaret Meeetin Today
Status: 



What were the things added to the law that susie mentioned?  I have not
heard what was added and would like to know, so I can either support or
decry the ammendment, with or without additions, etc.

see ya,

*

PS: thanks for the supes #'s!!

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 11:17:20 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 10:39:17 PDT
Subject: Re:  Cabaret Meeetin Today
Status: 


Just spoke to:

Conroy: 554-7751
Hsieh: 554-5015

They're both against allowing 18-21 year olds to dance after 2AM.
I think if they got enough calls saying that if they don't change
their tune, they'll lose my vote [i.e. the caller's vote] that
they'd change their positions.  I also told them that I'd publicise
their positions (against 18 year olds being allowed to stay out
after 2 AM) and that they might lose votes, so here it is.  Never
underestimate the power of information and opinion, so call these
suckers and let 'em know what time it is!!!


*

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 11:51:44 1993
From: Thomas Christopher Cuellar <chris@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 11:47:25
Subject: definition of music...
Status: 

I really dig techno, but I'm not sure I understand the differences between
the different types that fall in that category of music. Can someone
please describe:
1. techno
2. rave
3. trance
4. ambient
5. any others?
Thanks! BTW i have a few c.d.'s including Rave Til Dawn, Technomancer, and
this is techno. If any examples from these c.d.s fit the above categories
specifically, please indicate this so I'll have a better understanding.
also, is there a FAQ for this mailing list?? Thanks...Spinister


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 12:15:49 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 15:09:10 CST
Subject: Re: definition of music...
Status: 

On Tue, Thomas Christopher Cuellar punched deck and....:

>Thanks! BTW i have a few c.d.'s including Rave Til Dawn, Technomancer, and
>this is techno. If any examples from these c.d.s fit the above categories

if this is basically ALL the techno you have, you're in for a BIG treat...
theres a HORDE of other things out there that fall under the umbrella term 
of "techno"...

unfortunately i won't even attempt to define the perpetually 
metamorphasizing definative catagories of techno...there are others on the 
net that are far more qualified than i...i simply listen to what i like and 
dance like a banshee !

hell i still buy stuff released in 1990 :)

peace.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<<GOLDEN BOY.CYBERTRIBE>>                             deb9@pop.cwru.edu
              

             "Elvis has left the building...permanently"
                                                        

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 12:33:58 1993
From: phred@well.sf.ca.us (Fred Heutte)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 12:30:13 -0700
Subject: Re: weekend deadhorse show...
Status: 

I'm sorry to hear that the sound at the Troc/Bridge has deteriorated so much.
Last winter, they had the best club/house/rave/younameit sound I've heard
*anywhere*.  I haven't met the audio geniuses who put it together but I did
meet some of their friends who described in some detail what it was all
about.  It was a great space with the best sound while it lasted, but as
with many things in the scene it achieved the pinnacle only briefly before
club and promoter priorities turned elsewhere.  But nonetheless I'm glad
to see the Troc space being used again for this stuff.

Glad also to see jslee's props to Tony, who's knocked off a whole laundry
load of my sox this year :)  I know that Funky Techno Tribe has a rep for
inconsistency and organizing problems -- especially the last one -- but
I'm looking forward to Saturday night.

If Carter & Farina start doing their two-on-four thang again, everyone
better be ready for brainmelt!

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 12:47:36 1993
From: Scott Everett Swiger <scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 12:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: email & masscom
Status: 


Hi folks!

I'm doing a research paper for my Mass Communications class at Cal on
email as a form of alternative mass communication, and I'd like to get
some input from all ya'll.  Specifically, being fairly illiterate in the
actual workings (structure, technology, uses, etc.) of email, I'd like
some general info on what sort of uses email has to Joe Public. What sort
of user groups (for lack of a better word) exist out there and how can
they enable the "average" person to communicate with others in ways
different from existing forms of communication (in other words, what
differentiates email communication from other types?).  Other issues I'm
looking at include how email has affected and will affect mass
communications as an institution, what threats are being posed to email
users by the government (if someone could give me the email address/ph.#
of the Cypherpunks I'd ge most grateful), and basic questions of privacy
and rights in email use.

This discussion could be on sfraves or just send mail to me if your
response is lengthy, or if it's info I can get from existing
archives/files/whatever please point me in the right direction.

BTW, Mother Earth Sound System has not left the planet, we're planning an
indoor party up on the Sonoma State Campus in mid-November, and other
indoor parties for this fall.

If you like jazz OR house music, come to Le Chateau (the co-op in Berkeley
where a bunch of us live) this Saturday for our Halloween extravaganza.  
At noon, a tasty brunch with the Broun Fellinis providing jazzy grooves to
eat and dance by, then from about 2-7 pm, MESS DJs Brad, Stonie, and
Scottie (that's me) will spin some appropriately funky midday house, hip
hop, acid jazz, and dub, then (whew) stay for dinner at 7 and if you're
still standing, bands until late (it's a 13 hour party! and free if you
show up early and say your guests of Whit or Scott!)

In any case, BIG THANKS in advance to those that can help me out with info
for my project!

Peace + Respect...

			s   c   o   t   t   i   e
			*************************
			MOTHER EARTH SOUND SYSTEM
			*************************
			>>>RESPECT YOUR MOTHER<<<



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 13:11:06 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 13:07:55 PDT
Subject: Re: definition of music...
Status: 

I really dig techno, but I'm not sure I understand the differences between
the different types that fall in that category of music. Can someone
please describe:
1. techno
2. rave
3. trance
4. ambient
5. any others?
Thanks! BTW i have a few c.d.'s including Rave Til Dawn, Technomancer, and
this is techno. If any examples from these c.d.s fit the above categories
specifically, please indicate this so I'll have a better understanding.
also, is there a FAQ for this mailing list?? Thanks...Spinister
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!  Don't open this can of worms - ooops,  too late. ;-)

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 13:29:22 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 13:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: help...
Status: 

On Tue, 26 Oct 1993, Chris Hart wrote:

> 
> I am hoping to do the FMR this month as I've missed it
> the last couple of times.  Are you interested in that?
> I live in SF, but I could swing out to the OAK to get you if you
> want.  I may also be going with a guy from Berkeley, so...
> drop a line if you want to go...
> 
I'd be interested in going.  I'm a student at Berkeley, but I don't have a
car, so I guess I'd be bumming a ride from a compliant third party.  Later.

Sami


From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 14:35:59 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 14:36:20 -0700
Subject: Come-Unity price..
Status: 

If any of the list people write or see Mal..maybye you could prevail
upon him to charge maybye $7-10 for C-U instead of $5.00.
I know this seems sort of commercial to say this,but as someone
who has a bit of a perspective on the whole thing..traditions are traditions
but he could really use the money..    :(
I dont think he has the heart to ask for more himself!
-Chris.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 14:57:58 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 14:57:54 -0700
Subject: My weekend at Rhythm
Status: 


Rhythm is definetely a good party for Saturday nights.  I refused 
to go to Basics and Cat in the Hat.  I cannot see spending any more 
than 10 dollars to go somewhere to dance till dawn when I can do 
that in a club in San Francisco.  We got there close to 4, just in 
time to catch the end of Marky's set which was excellent.  After 
Marky was Jan Cooley who was also very good.  I really recommend 
it for anyone who does not want to attend a rave but dance till the 
morning.  The people get really into it, and sometimes you may get 
elbowed or accidentally hit, but that aside, it is a lot of fun.  
I wanted to go to Boogie Buffet after but wanted to freshen up a 
bit.  We couldn't find our friends that lived in the city, so we 
drove around for a bit.  We happened upon Vaness where we found this 
place called The Hot Tub.  For 10.50 per person per hour, you could sit in a 
hot tub and or sauna and take a shower .
The hot tub seemed to have some kind of soothing oil in it, it was very nice.  
A great way to relax after dancing all night. It sure beat renting 
a motel room to get cleaned up.  After that we went to Boogie Buffet 
feeling very refreshed and comfortable.  
Living 45 minutes from the city, it is nice to have somewhere to 
go and almost feel like you went home and came back again. 


;-)
vivianm

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 15:35:45 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 15:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: yugoslavia
Status: 

does anyone know of an internet site in yugoslavia...???? partyon...susie(:



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 16:33:19 1993
From: Tony Grant <tgrant@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 16:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Last Together @ Big Heart
Status: 

Tonight is going to be the last Together at Big Heart City.  The space is
closing semi-permanently, and the basement may be close for good, so it
may be your last chance to relive some memories.  ;)  (early Wicked anyone?)

Scheduled DJs are Rick Preston, Thomas, Simon and Garth.  Yours truly
providing visuals.  Hope to see you...

Tony

/--------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Tony Grant          tgrant@netcom.com       s y n e r g y   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------/



From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 19:24:18 1993
From: nineball@remarque.berkeley.edu (9ball)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 19:24:13 -0700
Subject: Off to new horizons.
Status: 


Hi again.

This will most likely be my last posting for quite some time (I
know, I know, so what...) as I am off to explore odd corners of
the world starting next week, namely Eastern Europe and the UK.
So far, it looks like the Czech and Slovak republics,
Poland, Bulgaria, possibly Turkey, and back to the UK (London)
and some time in Ireland (Dublin, Belfast.)

I'll let you all know when I return, (or perhaps during the
trip if I find an internet connection?) if I saw any evidence
of any sort of rave scene in those lands.  I would expect there
to be something in Prague, given the huge American and British
population there right now....

The bad news is I don't really plan on looking, as I've moved on
to other things recently.  I don't think I have ever really decided
to quit raving, it's just that it served it's purpose in my
life and other things seem to be popping up where I once spent
my time in those killer trances with some good people (YES! MOST
OF THE SFRAVERS INCLUDED!  You know who you are!)

Anyways, I'll read for a few more days, and if anyone has any ideas
or tips on what to do or where to go to find good people, ravers,
punks, and otherwise, in any of those countries (especially Prague,
London, Dublin, and Belfast) please e-mail me at

nineball@remarque.berkeley.edu

and let me know.

Later!

From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 21:09:44 1993
From: "Pete Reiter" <megatest!plethorax!preiter@uu2.psi.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 17:59:28 PDT
Subject: Basics
Status: 

Well, there seems to be some mixed reviews on Basics. Personally it was the best
party I've been to in a long time.

When we got there (around 11:30 p.m.) is was not yet going really strong, but
from looking around at the crowd I saw NO shirtless males, NO overdressed
females and a distinct absence of clubby types. In addition, the sound was
brilliant. Yes, by the end of the evening the sound system was completely 
unlistenable, but when we got there it was crystal clear and it completely
enveloped you without being terribly loud. The sound definitely deteriorated
sometime during the night. I bet they blew some speakers or something.

I thought Tony, Jon Williams and Jeno were all incredible. Spun's set was
probably also amazing, but I couldn't listen to it because of the sound system.

The vibe was definitely there, but it was one of those vibes that dissapears
as soon as you leave the dance floor. Maybe the vibey people just stayed on the
dance floor all night. I know I had trouble leaving.


						Pete




From sfraves-owner  Tue Oct 26 23:10:22 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 23:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hawkwind afterparty
Status: 

 HI
WE have no definate dates or location for the HAWKWIND/helios creed on
guitar/gen-p rumoured to be there as well. But.... this is an acid party
if you ever been to one. Dave and Allen want to make it close by, and with
lots of plants and projectors. We would like everybody to start thinking
about a plant and a slide with projector that they could bring. We want
it to be a party: warm , moist, and cheap! So if you see a projector or plant,
cheap, nurse them to health and in january some time we'll all come down
together.
 
Dave is an XKP and new PTV person who has this to say,
"hardcore goin' down on the mutha funky haight, get the picture?!!"'

Also the final Sky High Club is in the works for november before the
Sir Frances Drake Closes For Ever...
 
Elf and Galen and Dave will spin at ameba on Sat Oct 30th and these
3 are young talent with fresh vinyl, dig?  

Anybody heard any more about levitating the financial district?

galen 2-4pm
elf 4-6pm
dave 6-close?    sat oct 30th at AMEBA  where every day is a cyber-day.

salutations,
allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 06:23:42 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 09:16:58 CST
Subject: Mal...
Status: 

On Tue, 26 Oct 93 14:36:20 -0700, Chris Beaumont wrote:

>If any of the list people write or see Mal..maybye you could prevail
>upon him to charge maybye $7-10 for C-U instead of $5.00.
>I know this seems sort of commercial to say this,but as someone
>who has a bit of a perspective on the whole thing..traditions are traditions
>but he could really use the money..    :(
>I dont think he has the heart to ask for more himself!
>-Chris.

hey how is Mal doing ? i havent been on the list for a while, and when i 
was i sent him a car and a ne-raves sticker :)

just wonderin.

peace.
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

 "Case hit the simstim switch.  And flipped in to the agony of 
 broken bone.  Molly was braced against the blank grey wall of a 
 long corridor, her breath coming ragged and uneven.  Case was back
 in the matrix instantly, a white-hot line of pain fading in his 
 left thigh."   
                                                 W. Gibson
                                                 Neuromancer
--------

golden boy

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 06:58:11 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 09:51:29 CST
Subject: Re: Mal...
Status: 

On Wed, 27 Oct 93 09:16:58 CST, Golden Boy wrote:


>hey how is Mal doing ? i havent been on the list for a while, and when i 
>was i sent him a car and a ne-raves sticker :) 
                  ^^^
oopz...:)...that was supposed to say carD...hey what can i say...i was only 
half way done with the first cup of coffee of the morning...

peace.
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

 "Case hit the simstim switch.  And flipped in to the agony of 
 broken bone.  Molly was braced against the blank grey wall of a 
 long corridor, her breath coming ragged and uneven.  Case was back
 in the matrix instantly, a white-hot line of pain fading in his 
 left thigh."   
                                                 W. Gibson
                                                 Neuromancer
--------

golden boy

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 09:16:48 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 09:17:22 -0700
Subject: Sunday rave w/ Regis McKenna - where is the info number?
Status: 

I heard of a rave on Sunday,  w/ Regis McKenna but don't have the
flyer.    Does anyone know or have the flyer and the info number?

CC

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 09:53:12 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 09:53:49 -0700
Subject: A Faschist supervisor needs more pursuasion
Status: 


Re:  Supervisors meeting coming up...
I talked to Mary Lonergan of Conroys office and her views haven't yet been
expressed on ths cabaret law.   But when I talked to the assistant of Hsieh's
office,   WOW!  that guy is really faschist,  and I encourage ALL to continue
to call his office and express your views and flood his office with faxes
opposing his faschist views.


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 10:22:24 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 10:24:51 -0800
Subject: Re: A Faschist supervisor needs more hair gel
Status: 

At  9:53 AM 10/27/93 -0700, John Draper wrote:

>opposing his faschist views.

That anything like faschion views?
"You there- on the runway- that dress is abominable! Take her to the camp!"

:-}


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 11:01:21 1993
From: nrg@netcom.com (Ethan I. Miller)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 11:01:56 PDT
Subject: Re: Basics
Status: 

> When we got there (around 11:30 p.m.) is was not yet going really strong, but
> from looking around at the crowd I saw NO shirtless males, NO overdressed
> females and a distinct absence of clubby types. In addition, the sound was
> brilliant. Yes, by the end of the evening the sound system was completely 
> unlistenable, but when we got there it was crystal clear and it completely
> enveloped you without being terribly loud. The sound definitely deteriorated
> sometime during the night. I bet they blew some speakers or something.
> 
Geez, I don't know...I thought the sound *sucked* all night long; you must
have been higher than I was ;)

see ya
ethan

-- 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 11:11:48 1993
From: nrg@netcom.com (Ethan I. Miller)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 11:12:19 PDT
Subject: Chez Groove
Status: 

Hi friends, just wanted to give you a little advance notice on the
following:

Chez Groove
Friday, November 12

Join us for an intimate evening of Progressive House & Very Deep Trance

Jon D.  Lee  Tony  Doran  Jamie (Universe UK)

Brought to you by your friends at Home
Audio by Sound Vision
Breakfast when we're done dancing :)
In a totally fresh, unused sf space!

415.979.8519
This is gonna be a monthly thing focusing on small, intimate gatherings of
friends and family. Look forward to seeing you there.

love ya
ethan & mark
-- 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 11:29:00 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 11:30:32 PDT
Subject: Anon Salon
Status: 


flyer from Together (look for the hidden SFRaver!) :


pARTy SCIENCE invites you to the 1st off-site ANON SALON

Inside the digital forest maze:

Virtual Haunted House (Dave Ray)
"Take a Ride with the Devil" CD-ROM (HELL-CAB/Phil Simon)
Spoonimation Stand (Mark Petrakis & Mitchelll Yawitz)
RiGBy/D'Cuckoo's Digital Puppet (Ron Fischer/SGI)
Cyborganic Cafe NetJam (Jonathan Steuer) 
A MYST-ical floating table CD-ROM (MYST/Broderbund)
Vince Koloski/Neon Sculptures
Jeff Allen's Holographic Ghosts
etc. etc.

Costume Contest

On the Main Stage:
 
Beasts of Paradise (World Pop/Harp/Percussion/Voice)
Amy X Neuberg & MEN (Techno-Jam)
Patrick Martin (Orgiastic Meta-Magician)
DJ: UP Beat World Mix

Friday, October 29th 
50 Oak St, SF, in the ornate International Center
Doors at 9pm.
$20 at the door/$15 w/invite/$10 anon members
to benefit Climate Theatre

info: 666-3487

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 14:22:09 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 14:22:42 PDT
Subject: [POLL] Daytime Liquid Air?
Status: 

Hey, my partners and I have been kicking this around, and we'd
like to ask you, the list people, what you think:

Would you attend a daytime version of Liquid Air (featuring
fabulous DJs, Sound Vision, and the usual good vibe)?

If enough of you say yes, we'll get one in the works for
November.

Replies to me, please...let's spare the list.  I will summarize
by Monday morning.

Thanks!
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE -------- brycer@netcom.com--------
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party Dec93 -----
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 14:46:40 1993
From: Lisa M. Wyatt <lwyatt@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 14:46:33 -0700
Subject: East Bay Carless People
Status: 


It seems there's a lot of discussion about people over here
on the East Bay having a lack of rides...Well guess what -
you can add two more to that list. We're students @ Cal, 
and although we may have a ride to FMR, it's likely not.
Any help would be wondrously appreciated! Many many thanks!

Lisa.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 14:57:43 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 14:57:34 PDT
Subject: Mothership ** ticket advisory **
Status: 


the George Clinton show Halloween night at Berkeley Community Theatre
is almost sold out, only a couple of hundred tix left.

fyi,
Bob


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 15:02:02 1993
From: PLUI@IOSSVR.gm.hac.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 15:01:54 PDT
Subject: 
Status: 

Here's the accompanying bit on e that was in The Globe and Mail from Toronto.

plu

-------------------------article------------------------------------------------
FACT VERSUS FICTION
The agony over ecstasy

BY CHARLOTTE PARSONS	
The Globe and Mail	 

The drug known to ravers as ecstasy has a history that is long and rife with 
misconceptions.  Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) was patented 81 years ago 
in Germany by the Merck Pharmaceutical Co., and more or less forgotten until 
1976, when a research paper was published on its psychoactive effect on humans.

MDMA has been described as a psychedelic drug but Bruce Eisner, the U.S. author 
of Ecstasy, the MDMA Story, calls it an empathogen. This means that it 
heightens a user's appreciation of others without causing the perceptual 
distortions associated with a true hallucinogen.

"People on MDMA are open, loving and alert," he says. "They don't generally, 
with normal doses, have hallucinatlons or confusion. The change is more an 
internal change."

However, the rumour mill has accused ecstasy of a variety of negative side 
effects. It has been dubbed a "wheelchair" drug for supposedly sapping the body 
of spinal fluid. According to another story, it can cause symptoms similar to 
those of Parkinson's disease.

Mr. Eisner, a San Francisco writer with a master's degree in psychology, says 
he has found no evidence to support such claims. He says there are several 
shortterm side effects, but they are far less dangerous, they include a 
wiggling of the eyes, loss of appetite and, occasionally, jaw clenching. A user 
also may experience sleeplessness or fatigue until the drug wears off.

"This is typical of what happens" when a drug is made illegal", he says. 
"Availabiiity drops, prices go up and rumours abound. 

He says the link to Parkinson's may have stemmed from someone who confused MDMA 
with a synthetic heroin that can cause a false form of the disease when made 
incorrectly. But the rumoured draining of spinal fluid is groundless.

In all, about 20 people have died after taking MDMA. Mr. Eisner says the 
victims can be divided roughly into two groups: those who had heart problems 
and those who fell prey to "rave dehydration syndrome." 

Several British ravers died after organizers shut off the flow of drinking 
water to the site in an attempt to boost beverage sales.
Prices for ecstasy skyrocketed after it became popular on the rave scene and 
after the United States made it illegal in 1985. A single dose once cost less 
than $10 but now fetches about $45.

The high demand and dwindling supply of MDMA's ingredients have prompted 
basement chemists to produce bastardized versions of the drug. Amphetamine-
laced pills and powders have appeared on the rave scene masquerading as ecstasy.

"It's a real crapshoot whether people are going to get the real stuff or not, " 
Mr. Eisner says.

He blames the ban, arguing that with alcohol and cigarettes killing millions, 
it makes little sense to blacklist MDMA.

------------------abidda-abidda-abidda-thats-all-folx-----------------------

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 15:05:48 1993
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Date: 27 Oct 1993 15:05:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RIGHT-WING TYPOS
Status: 

I hate to nit-pick, but extreme right-wingers are usually referred to 
  by the term 'fascist'.   'Faschist' isn't anything...

Zeig hell!    :)

Dave Scruton

              "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"

                      - Hunter S. Thompson


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 15:42:40 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 15:41:55 -0700
Subject: Re:  Basics
Status: 

I agree there were no clubby attitudes but there were shirtless people wether they were cool or not I don't know though I think everyone was cool!

The sound system if that is what they had sucked. It was like a car stereo system that is outdated and has no bass and makes the music sound too loud and fuzzy w/ too much treble.

All the DJ's were great, it was just that they were deprived of a good turntable and soundsystem, but they pulled through.....

I liked the way the November Basics was at Daily City.......


Hoss


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 16:17:42 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 16:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: A Faschist supervisor needs more pursuasion
Status: 

	My first encounter with these cabaret laws occured when I attended
the Orb show in SF.  I had not heard of such a ridiculous attempt to stem
crime in SF until I saw a guy walking around with a poster yelling that
all under 21ers (that's me) had to leave at 2 am.  Admittedly, the law was
enforced with an almost laughable amount of laxness (I just snipped the
excess from everyone elses bands and stuck em together with Marlo's
stickers), but the whole idea is ludicrous.
	I'm from Texas, and a similar law was enacted in Dallas for a bit.
It eventually got repealed by a district judge on the basis that *any*
curfew law essentially amounts to *house arrest* and is therefore unjust
for those youths who wouldn't be causing trouble regardless of the time of
day (or night).
	I can't vote in Cali and don't live in SF, but those of you for
whom both of those apply, you may want to take that Dallas judge's
rationale to that fascist, I-know-what's-good-for-you fuck up.

Sami


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 16:22:13 1993
From: gregrich@microsoft.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 15:37:21 PDT
Subject: ...Basics...
Status: 


A couple of us came down from Seattle for this party...and a good thing, too...

Basics was a _blast_; pure and simple, end of story.  We got there 
about 1:00am.  There were a couple of logistical hassles that were 
irritating (no in & out, and no serious ventilation for those of us on 
the verge of heatstroke), but overall it was an amazingly good party.  
That strange "Cabaret Law" thing was a palpable force, wreaking 
confusion on the minds of all the people who were just gathering to 
have a good non-alcohol time; people over 21 were given wristbands at 
the door, and instructed not to take them off, or they would be asked 
to leave after 2:00.  People under 21 were ushered off to one side and 
sort of kept going in little circles, not being able to decide whether 
to go in or not if they were just going to be ejected at 2:00.  A small 
saving grace was that it was only $10 for 18-21, $15 for 21+.  That was 
an annoying little thorn in the side of otherwise carefree and happy 
partygoers...  Anyway, they were handing out Cabaret rule information 
at the door, getting the relevant information into the hands of the 
people who were directly affected enough to care about doing something 
about it.  I really just wish they'd repeal that sucker...

Inside, the Trocadero sported a sitting/chilling area open to the front 
door, allowing some (desperately!) needed cool, fresh air in.  Through 
two sets of doors, the grand ballroom opened up, a 1500+ sq dance floor 
with a stage at one end (though the djs set up on the floor), sprinkled 
with the 30+ foot floor to ceiling columns.  Green and red argon lasers 
cut entrancing pseudotopographical shapes through lazy drifting 
floorfog, then started etching the image of the rotating earth on the 
ultraglow painted murals all over the walls, catching the attention of 
the hundreds of ravers busting it up in earnest, just flat out _going 
off_.  The lighting, which started out really bright, faded as the 
night went on, as it became clear that the crowd was feeling a little 
oppressed by the strength of the lightshow and psyched to fill the 
space with their own brightness.  And ALL NIGHT, the djs were dropping 
the _sick_ bridges, doing a nonstop mix of the most crazy, ridiculous 
grooves that I've heard in a long time.  Hats off!!!  At around 2:00, 
the security started doing their sweep, flashlights jumping from wrist 
to wrist to check for the sacred band. They even ID'd those of us they 
didn't believe were over 21.  That was a downer for a while, but the 
music came to bring us all back.  The sound did seem to get a little 
muddier as the night wore on, but I couldn't tell if that was 
exhaustion creeping over me or what.  Sounds like it was 'or what'.

There was a really supercoolnrg dood (the one shirtless guy there) 
hanging out just off to one side of the dance floor handling Free Water 
distribution, and his luv phaser was set to "inhibition-vaporize".  
Someone else was wandering the floor with Free Fruit (bananas); he 
probably had as much fun watching people's faces light up in the chill 
room as they did in seeing him appear out of quasi-impenetrable dark.  
The chill room was upstairs, with windows overlooking the dance floor.  
But the room itself reverberated with ambient soundwork of steamtrains 
rushing by in low frequency electronic rumbles, pushing through your 
skin to writhe directly on your nervous system.  There were people 
strewn all over the floor and couches, just hanging.  Like it.

Everybody there was so friendly!!  Smiles smiles smiles smiles smiles 
everywhere.  I was there with three up-until-that-moment-non-ravers, 
and got the immense pleasure of watching the ice melt as they became 
more comfortable with the concept of hundreds of people, most complete 
strangers to each other, jamming and bootstrapping off each other's 
energy.  I got the immense pleasure of being with them as they lit up, 
as the rhythm invaded their spines, watching them drop all of their 
external armor and groove with the vibe.  That's the kind of thing that 
makes hundreds of miles worth travelling.

yeah, baby; basics.  Looking forward to having Basics up here in sunny 
seattle.

Peace.

	>>Dread-Eye


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 16:33:22 1993
From: "Atherton, Darren" <datherton@ea.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 15:37:00 PDT
Subject: RIGHT-WING TYPOS
Status: 

That's great if you read and know what it meant then why bother? Details, 
details. Onto some cool sounds check out the new FLUKE CD called Six wheels 
on my wagon it will send your spell checker on a new loop......... 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY FROM: Atherton, Darren
Return-Path: <SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 27 Oct 1993 15:05:28 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Subject: RIGHT-WING TYPOS
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <01H4M0QMGR3M004LON@EDEN1.HAC.COM>
X-Vms-To: EDEN1::IN%"sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to nit-pick, but extreme right-wingers are usually referred to 
  by the term 'fascist'.   'Faschist' isn't anything...

Zeig hell!    :)

Dave Scruton

              "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"

                      - Hunter S. Thompson


From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 16:36:22 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 16:36:15 -0700
Subject: Motion reminder
Status: 

Just a reminder to everyone to come out to the South Bay tonite, 
specifically FX on First Street in downtown San Jose. 
DJ lineup looks excellent, with our very own sfraver, Scotty starting 
off the night.  Please come down early to support him, he is an awesome 
DJ.







See ya there, 


vivianm

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 19:51:04 1993
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 19:51:35 -0700
Subject: Sunday rave w/ Regis McKenna - where is the info number?
Status: 

>I heard of a rave on Sunday, w/ Regis McKenna...

Don't you mean Terence McKenna?
The Great American Music Hall
Halloween - Oct 31, 1993
dj's @ 8:30 - Show @ 11:00

Rox

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 21:02:42 1993
From: mcorwine@comtch.iea.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 21:02:56 PDT
Subject: Re: Sunday rave w/ Regis McKenna - where is the info number?
Status: 

rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber) writes:

> >I heard of a rave on Sunday, w/ Regis McKenna...
> 
> Don't you mean Terence McKenna?
> The Great American Music Hall
> Halloween - Oct 31, 1993
> dj's @ 8:30 - Show @ 11:00
> 
> Rox

No, I think he means Regis Philbin.


--
mcorwine@comtch.iea.com (Matt Corwine)
IEAx for lack of a better name... (509) 624-0744

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 21:28:43 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 21:28:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Sunday rave w/ Regis McKenna - where is the info number?
Status: 

On Oct 27,  9:02pm, you proclaimed:
} > >I heard of a rave on Sunday, w/ Regis McKenna...
} > 
} > Don't you mean Terence McKenna?
} > The Great American Music Hall
} > Halloween - Oct 31, 1993
} > dj's @ 8:30 - Show @ 11:00
} > 
} > Rox
} 
} No, I think he means Regis Philbin.

OH MY GOD...

I just had a vision:

Terence and Kathy Lee!

Give those two wacky characters a show.  Watch the fireworks:

TM: "Shamanism is the pathway to the center of the soul; it's the super-
highway to elevated states of consciousness, a pathway into the 4th
vegetable dimension"

KL: "That's right, and coming up next, the lastest fashion in robes
for the modern shaman!  What's in for 94, what's out for 93... so
stay tuned!  Mmmmm, this is good coffee!"

(they both share a chuckle)

	Brian



----------------------------------------------------------------------
    But DARE executive director Glenn Levant calls the studies [which
showed Drug Abuse Resistance Education to be mostly ineffective]
flawed and not comprehensive: "Scientists, will tell you bumble bees
can't fly, but we know they can."

From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 22:22:26 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 17:52:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ride to YSH from South Bay
Status: 

Hi all,
	I am looking for a ride to YSH tomorow night from the South Bay area.
I live in South East San Jose but can get to somebody's house or whatever
but I just don't want to drive all the way to SF by meself.
Anyone interested should e-mail me directly by thursday afternoon, thats
when I'm leaving Davis for SJ, or they can call me in SJ at 408-270-0266.

Thanks,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 22:52:40 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 22:27:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ride to YSH from South Bay (fwd)
Status: 

I'm sending this again as I didn't see it the first time around in sfraves
mail.


Hi all,
	I am looking for a ride to YSH tomorow night from the South Bay area.
Bob?  I live in South East San Jose but can get to somebody's house or
whatever but I just don't want to drive all the way to SF by meself.
Anyone interested should e-mail me directly by thursday afternoon, thats
when I'm leaving Davis for SJ, or they can call me in SJ at 408-270-0266.

Thanks,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      




From sfraves-owner  Wed Oct 27 23:16:12 1993
From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 23:16:49 PDT
Subject: SFRavers Get Mad Props in URB!!
Status: 

Howdy y'all -- 

The new issue of URB Magazine, which should make it up there by the weekend,
gives props to some Sfravers!

First: check out the review of Ethan's club Home in the SanFranDisco column...

Next: JSL (hmmmm, who could that be? :) ) in the Word to Urb column writes in
      to criticize the SF column, noting that there are some great new DJs
      up there like Jon D. and Lee An! :) (I won't be hurt that I wasn't 
      mentioned -- hee hee)

You can now reach URB online at  urbmag@netcom.com or you can give any
suggestions to me (same thing, anyway!)


-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
                                Tamara Palmer
                              trance@netcom.com
                   Les beats sont hypnotiques et hallucinants
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
-- 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 02:04:26 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 12:32:09 PDT
Subject: Re:  Come-Unity price..
Status: 

If any of the list people write or see Mal..maybye you could prevail
upon him to charge maybye $7-10 for C-U instead of $5.00.
I know this seems sort of commercial to say this,but as someone
who has a bit of a perspective on the whole thing..traditions are traditions
but he could really use the money..    :(
I dont think he has the heart to ask for more himself!
-Chris.

-----------

That sounds totally reasonable to me.  I understood that Malachy
was trying to get on-line, has that happened yet?  If so, prevailing
upon him should be easy... also, is he still interested in trying to
get voice recognition technology in place?

Chris

(This text composed by voice)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 02:04:32 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 12:48:20 PDT
Subject: Re:  Hawkwind afterparty
Status: 


Hey Allen,

Is Steven Beltan (sp?), used to go by "Chameleon" going to spin
there (ameba) anytime soon?  [I saw him there a while back...]


*

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 02:04:54 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 13:00:20 PDT
Subject: Re:  A Faschist supervisor needs more pursuasion
Status: 


Status: R


Re:  Supervisors meeting coming up...
I talked to Mary Lonergan of Conroys office and her views haven't yet been
expressed on ths cabaret law.   But when I talked to the assistant of Hsieh's
office,   WOW!  that guy is really faschist,  and I encourage ALL to continue
to call his office and express your views and flood his office with faxes
opposing his faschist views.
---------

those were exactly my sentiments.  let's publicize his attitude and
get rid of the slimy m@$@%#&#$@%er....we don't need no steeenking faschists...


*

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 06:51:45 1993
From: mcorwine@comtch.iea.com
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 06:51:30 PDT
Subject: Terence and Kathie Lee
Status: 

Terence chuckles a little more than Kathie. "Good coffee, eh... if you 
only knew why...."

--
mcorwine@comtch.iea.com (Matt Corwine)
IEAx for lack of a better name... (509) 624-0744

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 07:19:21 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 7:19:58 PDT
Subject: Outdoor South Bay Lunch
Status: 



Looks like it's good enough weather for an outdoor lunch today. 
( If anyone can suggest a south bay spot that's outdoors but has a
pavillion or other roofed structure , please let me know ).

				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

-------------------------------------------------------------- 

Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
today's SFR South Bay Lunch ...

When: Thursday  
Time: 12.00 noon
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
  Northbound: Past San Antonio Road 
  Southbound: Past University Avenue 

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Park in the first
  carpark to your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll , behind the round baseball fence.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!




From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 09:05:24 1993
From: Adam Sah <asah@ginsberg.CS.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 09:06:07 -0700
Subject: looking for music...
Status: 

A couple of years old I know, but for purely nostalgic value... Does anyone
  have a copy of Apothesis?

Thanks,
-A.Sah'93                     ...Adam Sah...asah@cs.Berkeley.EDU...
                 meditation-guru-deep-black-voodoo-magic-strong-spell-code-sex


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 09:28:18 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 09:28:51 -0700
Subject: Caberet laws suck
Status: 

Re: Caberet law...Chris comments...

>those were exactly my sentiments.  let's publicize his attitude and
>get rid of the slimy m@$@%#&#$@%er....we don't need no steeenking faschists...


Yea,  lets load up those FAX machines  and send out our dis-approval of
their views on this issue...   Tell your friends...  Spread the word around...

CC


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 09:44:17 1993
From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 12:42:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: looking for music...
Status: 

Beyond the ultraworld of Adam Sah:
> 
> A couple of years old I know, but for purely nostalgic value... Does anyone
>   have a copy of Apothesis?

I have 2 but i am not selling them (different versions on vinyl). I also have
it on a CD compilation. But dont despair, here's a quote from a text i posted
2 weeks ago on ne-raves:

-start-
As for Apotheosis "O Fortuna" it was an interesting use of Carmina Burana. It
was first released without the proper royalties paid to the estate of Carl
Orff on Indisc records (note that even if the result was interesting, the use
of opera was not a first either in techno - T99 for example - or house - the
malcolm Mclaren presents diva love opera house is another example). At that
point all copies were removed from the market, but after that an agreement
was reached between Carl Orff's estate and Radikal records who could then
license O Fortuna from Indisc (so much for sacrilege, heh?). It was then
released on full of compilations and even bootlegs have been made (i have
seen cd singles like "O fortuna" by carmina or "Carmina" by O Fortuna etc...
-end-

So you can get the bootlegs or buy a CD comp, like Too Technocal (SPG music
Canada). I think it was also on Only for the headstrong... not sure. But it
is on one comp easily found in HMV and other big stores like that. Also, it
is of course on a Radikal compilation. Dont remember which one. In fact there
may be two versions on 2 Radikal compilations.

So it's all over the place. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 10:39:38 1993
From: gdallensworth@ucdavis.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 10:26:03 -0700
Subject: Chez Groove
Status: 


Sounds GREAT! If it's anything like Home in the production and anything
like YSH in the vibe, I HAVE to go! If the space is good, it'll be
Heaven on Earth.


BEGIN GENERIC SIGNATURE FILE
hazrat Gregor Mosheh
4301-B Ashland Terrace       Davis CA 95616   (916)757-7319
finger:   ez026264@hamlet.ucdavis.edu   AND   gmosheh@nyx.cs.du.edu
mail to: mosheh@cybernet.cse.fau.edu

IRC and ICB: Mosheh
Finger above addresses for info on PGP and myself. :)
-GM

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 10:57:47 1993
From: Tony Grant <tgrant@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 10:55:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Corduroy City Madness...
Status: 

This Friday night in the basement of 1015 (and upstairs after 2) :

dj digit, dubtribe, ernie munson, mark farina, derrick carter

not bad...

peace,
tony

/--------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Tony Grant          tgrant@netcom.com       s y n e r g y   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------/



From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 13:11:41 1993
From: inhuman@mindvox.phantom.com (Inhuman)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 16:07:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Corduroy City Madness...
Status: 

Tony Grant <tgrant@netcom.com> writes:

> This Friday night in the basement of 1015 (and upstairs after 2) :
> 
> dj digit, dubtribe, ernie munson, mark farina, derrick carter

If Mark Farina and Derek Carter are doing their four-turntable stunts, 
this is NOT to be missed!  I saw these two at Essence III in NYC and they 
played the phattest deep house set.  It was incredible.

I don't need to add that Dub Tribe is awesome as well.

Michael                 |  groovin' in the chocolate city!
(inhuman@phantom.com)   |  <PGP Key Available Upon Request>

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 13:35:04 1993
From: "Ron Nikel" <ren@nin.asd.sgi.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:34:49 -0700
Subject: Mixing Board Requirements
Status: 



	Hey,

	  I have a couple of questions for our resident experts in the area of
	DJ'ing.  I am looking to start up myself and would like some
suggestions
	on some entry level mixing equipment (i.e. types, how many channels,
	and some relative costs).  Thanks in advance.

	Ron.





From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 13:48:19 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 10:59:34 PDT
Subject: Re: East Bay Carless People
Status: 

O.K.,  I  live in Berkeley, I have a truck with a camper shell on it that 
could haul several bodies to the FMR and I'm about 80% sure I'm gonna go,
contact me if interested.  Late-

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 13:52:11 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 13:53:39 PDT
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
Status: 


Boo!

Even with everything going on this weekend, the party I'm most looking
forward to is actually on Wednesday night - Come/Unity returns!
Come/Unity was appropriately named - it attracted the core of the
house community for some of the highest-vibe, highest-energy parties
the Bay Area has ever seen.

Of course, the weekend looks great too, with something special every
night - the full moon party Friday night, any of the parties Saturday
night, and Raising the Stone and the ol' Castro thing on Sunday.

Special thanks to Philip Chang for several of this week's entries!


*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     	    Updated: 10.28.93
*****************************************************************************

Thursday, October 28th - Surface Magazine Monster Masquerade Ball
	Jan Cooley, Neon Leon, Aaron O. spinning
	DV8, 540 Howard.  doors at 10pm, $7 w/invite.

Friday, October 29th - a wickedly full moon 

Saturday, October 30th - The Finale of Funky Tekno Tribe
  	Doran, Simon, Garth, Graeme, Tony, Spun, Thomas, Jeno, DJ Dan
  	415/266-8215

Saturday, October 30th - 111 Minna party
	8pm - live jazz and art; 9pm mad scientist dungeon. djs till 8am.
	Ernie Munson & others.  $10, 18+.  415.974.1719

Saturday, October 30th - Casper
	DJs Carlos, Moonpup, Dutch, Christophe, Rick Preston
	indoor/outdoor warehouse/coast to coast casperlink/recycle chill zone. 
	415.905.6441

Saturday, October 30th - Awaken
	Loving life, a new decree bring your mind, body and spirit everlasting
	Markie, James, Joe Harp, Josh, Alfie, Enzo
	415.442.7922  	209.569.7867 	916.552.1599

Sunday, October 31st - Raising the Stone
	"a joint effort lecture-Dance concert-video show based on the
 	 written work of Terence McKenna"
	talk by Terence McKenna
	Ambient music by SpaceTime Continuum
	Visuals by Hyperdelic Video
	DJs Robbie Hardkiss, Charlie Edwards, M Normal
	Great American Music Hall - djs at 8:30, show at 11.

Sunday, October 31st - Elmo Halloween rave - 415.884.ABCD

Wednesday, November 3rd - Come/Unity
	Gavan  Simon  Jeno  Garth
	1015 Folsom, 10pm

Saturday, November 6th - An Evening at the Blue Cube
        Hey SFravers! its a party at the Blue Cube House!
        email resonate@netcom.com for info

Saturday, November 6th - Groove Kitchen - 415.267.3932

Friday, November 12th - Chez Groove 
	Join us for an intimate evening of progressive house and very
	deep trance...
	jon d, lee, tony, doran, jamie (universe uk)
	$10 all night long in a totally fresh space 
	brought to you by your friends at home - audio by sound vision
	415.979.8519

Saturday, November 13th - Wicked - 415.512.5713

Saturday, November 13th (daytime)- Universe 2000 
	DJs Carlos, Jonathan, Liquid, Dave Alga.
	10AM-7PM At the Cow Palace, San Francisco
	Mortal Kombat Competition, Interactive Multimedia, blah blah
	Advance tickets (BASS) $12.50	Day of Event $16.50
	415 979-4543   [pc: yow. big flyer warning]

Sunday, November 14th - See the Light tour w/Moby, Orbital, Aphex Twin
	Also: Young American Primitive, Vapour Space 
	DJs Tim (Utah Saints), Jonah, Jeno, Alex
	All ages, doors at 7pm, $15 in advance.
	Tix at Housewares, BPM, Makato, Primal, Upstairs Rec, Underground Rec.
	Galleria (101 Henry Adams), SF 
	415.241.1560

Wednesday, November 17th - bjork, ultramarine @ the Warfield, SF. 

Saturday, November 20th - Energy  
	live: deee-lite & alphabet soup.
	Doc Martin  Garth  Simon  Jeno  Spun  Ghost  
		Carlos  Alphie  Markie Mark.
	body piercing, tattooing, body painting, fruit and salad bar, 
	415 995-4787. 18+ til 2am. 21+ after.
	520 4th street (the Trocadero)

Saturday, November 20th - Basics in Seattle
	Donald Glaude  Josh  Spun  Jon Williams  Doran  Tony
	There may be a bus leaving from SF on Friday evening and returning
	early Monday morning.  The price, including the party admission,
	would be $45.
	Leave message at 415.905.9629 if interested.

Saturday, November 27th - Origin - 415.905.8831
	

Tribal Funk - 415.756.1531 - details to follow

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other goodwill 
	thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by flyers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their appropriateness 
in being on the list, let me know.  Also let me know when any of them stop...

---Thursday------------------------------------------------------------------

SFR South Bay Lunch - noon at Greer Park in Palo Alto.  
	e-mail larryc@netcom.com for directions.
YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-765-7670
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - Rick Preston, others
Universal Groove - Carlos, Ghost, Dutch, Dave Alga
	Thunder Bay, Berk.  9pm-5am, $5.  415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax - Acid Jazz w/Julius Papp (San Jose)
Eclipse - 2520 Camino Diablo, Walnut Creek. open till 4, 18+
Delusions of Grandeur - Jon Williams, Robbie & Scott Hardkiss.	Ambience 
	by SpaceTime Continuum.  Visuals by Synergy.  10pm - 6am, 1015 Folsom. 
The Blue Room - 801 K st. Sacramento 21+ no cover before 10 pm
Davoud - 1890 Arden Way Sacramento (the "Rage")  18+  (916)484-4062

---Friday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Mission Rock - guest DJs on patio, Alex & Kevin downstairs 
	817 China Basin - $5 - 21+
	[10/29 - Jon Williams]
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
Corduroy City - $5 - 11-6am - 415.974.9715
	[10/29 - Digit, Dubtribe, Ernie Munson, Mark Farina, Derrick Carter]
Dig! - Cleo's Cafe @ Haight & Pierce. Acid Jazz & deep house.
	6pm-?, no cover, all ages.
Hell's Kitchen - DJs Digit & Bobby T - 21+, $2 b4 11, $5 after.  375 1st St.

---Saturday------------------------------------------------------------------

Lost It - Steve Mitchel, Dutch, Richie, La Paix - 2am-noon - $5 - DNA Lounge
Housing Project - 6am-2pm - DJ Dani & guests - End Up 401 6th @ Harrison, 21+ 
	[might be nighttime now -dc]
Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - 4pm-8pm - cleo's, 698 Haight  415.487.6246
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762
Rhythm - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, Markie - 177 Townsend - 21+ - 415-281-3344
Diverse City - Jon Williams, La Paix, guests - $5 b4/11 - 415-469-2027
Energy - Doc Martin, Josh, Ghost, Willy Wonka, Jeno - 415-995-4787
The Fridge - on hold - 415-487-6305
Aurgasm - on hold - collective T.A.Z. - 415.974.9363

---Sunday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 6am-2pm - 415-979-8845
EndUp from 6am - 6th & Harrison
Cleo's Cafe - Haight & Pierce - informal YSH gathering - 2pm-8pm - free!
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Spundae - various guest DJs - 9pm-5am, 21+, $5 b4 12 - 55 Natoma  
Drift - the ambient club - spike's, 8th & Minna, 10 till 2 am
Tranceformation - 201 9th @ Howard - $3, 21+ - 415-267-6189
Punch Drunk - Cal's, 2001 Union St @ Buchanan - 6pm - 415-776-7036
Sunday Joy - 8th & Kirkham (in the Sunset) - 2pm-7pm - $2
Deep Forest - Carlos, Dutch, & Guests - 7am-? - 18+ - $3 - 415.679.8070
Flapjacks - by Curious George - 18+, 6am-3pm, $4 incl. pancakes. 510-505-8841

---Monday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pepper.  Deep House. Nickie's, 460 Haight, 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 415.435.8627
Mushroom Jazz - acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is, Alex, Kevin
	$3, 9pm-3am.  Club Oasis, 278 11th St, 21+. 415-905-8811
Depth Chamber - temporarily on hold - 9-2am, 21+, (415)241-1560
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@Montgomery) in San Jose.

---Tuesday-------------------------------------------------------------------

Together - Simon, Garth, guests - 201 9th @ Howard  415-979-8825
Jus' Pucker - House, Funk, Disco - the Bird Cage, 4822 Telegraph. 9pm-2am, 21+.

---Wednesday-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mystery School - 525 Harrison @ 1st (Sound Factory) - 21+, 11pm - sunrise
	415-337-4905
Tilt - nadeeah, jan cooley, aaron o., david harness, dani, larry reed.
	11pm-5am, 21+.  540 Howard (DV8).  415.957.1730	
Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X)  408.236.3787
Java - 2730 Harrison @ 16th - 18+, $6 - 415.905.6443

---Connection 2 Tapes--------------------------------------------------------
4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house from SFR's party in March
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr 
contact Bob Ramstad (rave-tapes%groovy@us.oracle.com) 
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund 

---RADIO SHOWS---------------------------------------------------------------
Friday night - midnite-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
        (mixing from 12-1, other tasty electreats from 1-3:30am)
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351 and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe/uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

(type 'u' in place of the '*' - i've taken out the 'u' so this message
 passes thru majordomo's filter)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 14:29:57 1993
From: rpcaras@srv.PacBell.COM (Bob Carasik)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 14:25:12 PDT
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide: 111 Minna party
Status: 

I jjust calle dthe 111 Minna number and the promoter filled in a few details:

ins and outs are OK.  dance area is OUTSIDE
9 - midnite: funhouse downstairs with whizzy sci-fi stuff like a Tesla coil.
8 - 11; Ernie Munson is spinning ambient in the dance tent  ( in a closed street ).
also 8 - 11: live jazz improv inside.
11 - 12 or 1 hip-house w/J. Campbell.
then: Tony Fader
then: Efx and Digit.  1 to 6, and some other names.

Not yer "classic rave" but sounds pretty interesting.

Promoted by an ex-Toon Towner.


Quoted by AstroBoy

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 14:34:15 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 13:09:04 PDT
Subject: What day and time
Status: 

Hey,

What day and time is the Castro st. Halloween festivities/St. riot/parade?

anybody know?


*

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 16:48:46 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:48:38 -0700
Subject: VRAVE disaster
Status: 


Hi everyone.

Sorry for the mass mailing but I thought I'd explain something now before
any vraver users tried to log in.

There was a massive corruption of the user database for vrave, so the 
entire database had to be deleted.  This means you will have to start all
over again with you accounts:  log in as new, set up your account with
either your REAL name or your login name as your vrave login name, and
so forth.  Don't forget that you will have to log out and in so you can
see what you are typing, and in some cases you might have to be re-verified.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 23:00:16 1993
From: aryba@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Adam Rybaczuk)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 00:57:54 CDT
Subject: BPM Counter, Por Favor !
Status: 

I'm sitting at home with my roommates Powerbook, and I've dialed in to my
work E-MAIL account. What I would really like to do is FTP a copy of a BPM
counter program to myself tonight, so that I can time some 12"'s If anyone
knows where I can get it I would you PLEASE E-mail me tonite? I will gladly
reward a positive response with a good tape.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Oct 28 23:00:27 1993
From: aryba@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Adam Rybaczuk)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 00:58:11 CDT
Subject: BPM Counter, Por Favor !
Status: 

I'm sitting at home with my roommates Powerbook, and I've dialed in to my
work E-MAIL account. What I would really like to do is FTP a copy of a BPM
counter program to myself tonight, so that I can time some 12"'s If anyone
knows where I can get it I would you PLEASE E-mail me tonite? I will gladly
reward a positive response with a good tape.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 08:41:11 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 09:39:19 -0600
Subject:  Mixing Board Requirements -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
	Hey,

	  I have a couple of questions for our resident experts in the area
of
	DJ'ing.  I am looking to start up myself and would like some
suggestions
	on some entry level mixing equipment (i.e. types, how many channels,
	and some relative costs).  Thanks in advance.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you're looking for something basic and inexpensive that puts out a
good sound, you might want to check out a Realistic mixer (don't
laugh).  You can get a cheap 2 channel mixer for about $120 at Radio
Shack, and even though it is a cheap mixer, my friend the audio
specialist says they put out better sound than a Newmark.  But
anyways, all you really need is a cross-fader and hopefully monitor
cues.  Monitor cues allow you to hear either one of the channels, or
both at the same time through your headphones.  Some four channel
mixers only allow you to hear one channel at a time, and even though
you can still mix that way, it makes it a little tougher.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 08:45:29 1993
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Date: 29 Oct 1993 08:44:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Levitate the Stock Exchange
Status: 

Hey, all yew ghosts & goblins in the bay area! Pleeze keep us in SoCal
  informed about the levitation thang!  Inquiring minds wanna know...

Maybe an hour-by-hour report from those of you with the most network
  implants....


Thanks!

Dave Scruton     "Celtic Warrior"
Hughes Aircraft


                 "I don't want to achieve immortality through my writing,
                    I want to achieve it through not dying"

                         - Mark Twain

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 09:33:05 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:32:54 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: BPM Counter, Por Favor ! (fwd)
Status: 

> I'm sitting at home with my roommates Powerbook, and I've dialed in to my
> work E-MAIL account. What I would really like to do is FTP a copy of a BPM
> counter program to myself tonight, so that I can time some 12"'s If anyone
> knows where I can get it I would you PLEASE E-mail me tonite? I will gladly
> reward a positive response with a good tape.

I have a small program I wrote for the Amiga to do BPMs, and there exists
similar programs for the IBM, and source code for the Sun, but I don't know of
anything for the Mac.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 09:45:00 1993
From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 12:42:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Mixing Board Requirements -Reply
Status: 

Beyond the ultraworld of LUKEY@wordperfect.com:
> 
> If you're looking for something basic and inexpensive that puts out a
> good sound, you might want to check out a Realistic mixer (don't
> laugh).

Or even better, find the product that has been licensed by RS and you'll pay
even less. I paid half RS price on a Pyramid with equalizer, 4 stereo line
channels (12 stereo line inputs switchable), echo and 2 microphone inputs
It was the top model RS had in Canada. It has seen a few years of heavy use
(hasn't seen a lot of days without work...) and i have yet to change one
potentiometer. however i take good care of it and have a special deoxydant/
cleaner than *doesn't* remove lubrification. At some point i tought i had a
problem with a pot but it was my ground! The only mods i have done is
to add a monitor out (it only had headphone monitoring), added phantom power
to the XLR jacks, and upgraded a few components on the lower board, but these
mods are clearly overkill for most apps. It's just i needed better sound
until i can afford either a Mackie CR-1604 or (maybe an S8 24 track).
You'll say that all these channels are not required for DJing, true. I will
use it for more than DJing.

> You can get a cheap 2 channel mixer for about $120 at Radio
> Shack, and even though it is a cheap mixer, my friend the audio
> specialist says they put out better sound than a Newmark.  But
> anyways, all you really need is a cross-fader and hopefully monitor
> cues.  Monitor cues allow you to hear either one of the channels, or
> both at the same time through your headphones.  Some four channel
> mixers only allow you to hear one channel at a time, and even though
> you can still mix that way, it makes it a little tougher.

It depends on how you learned to mix. I learned to mix with a speaker
playing main out locally and in my headphones, the track beeing monitored.
Most beat on beat i do are with the pots up when i start the song when it's on
CD and if on vinyl, as soon as the turntable has gained its speed i put it on.
(of course, i first match the speed :P ). Anyway, back to monitoring, yeah,
well at the station we cannot cue just one channel and i hate it. I also
prefer dual non assignable x-faders than one assignable x-fader. Of course,
if one only wants to dj with 2 turntables, that's it, then a 2 channel mixer,
1 x-fader, entry level mixer is probably enough. But CDs are more and more
into the picture, so are the samplers, beat box, DATs etc... so 4 channels
may also be a good idea if you need 3 or 4 simultaneous sources.

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 10:05:12 1993
From: saeedi@shell.portal.com (Steven J Saeedi)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:05:04 PDT
Subject: Update to Weekly Rave Guide
Status: 

Just got back from Delusion at 1015 Folsom and picked up a flyer for 
Sunday Morning.  It's at DNA with DJs Simon & Garth starting at 6am.

This could be a change to the Boogie Buffet routine and will bring back
AfterLife memories for some;  Well, I know it will for me!

Look forward to seeing sfravers & sfravettes;  I haven't seen anyone
for a while and I've been out 2-3 times a week.

- Steve

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 10:10:42 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 11:01:35 -0600
Subject:  Re: Mixing Board Requirements -Reply -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Beyond the ultraworld of LUKEY@wordperfect.com:
>>  > If you're looking for something basic and inexpensive that puts
>out a
>> good sound, you might want to check out a Realistic mixer (don't
>> laugh).
> Or even better, find the product that has been licensed by RS and 
> you'll pay even less. I paid half RS price on a Pyramid with 
> equalizer, 4 stereo line channels (12 stereo line inputs 
> switchable), echo and 2 microphone inputs

What was the price on that mixer?  I think I've seen some Pyramid
components before, but it was just car audio amps and subs.  

> deoxydant/ cleaner than *doesn't* remove lubrification. At some 

What's the name of this cleaner?  One thing about cheap mixers is
that you always have to clean things constantly or your x-faders etc,
will start acting strange on you.  Yesterday I was mixing on my
friend's system, and when I x-faded the mix from track 1 to track 2,
as soon as it reached the far right, all the way on track 2, track 1
kicked back in.  Messed up the mix pretty good, but the problem was
that the x-fader just hadn't been cleaned for a while, and was
starting to act funny electrically.

> (of course, i first match the speed :P ). Anyway, back to 
> monitoring, yeah, well at the station we cannot cue just one 
> channel and i hate it.

I like being able to cue either one or both, but if I had to, I'd
prefer to only be able to do one channel.  I mix all CD on a Denon,
and it's too hard to cue the beat while the other track is playing
through the headphones.  Once I've cued up the starting point, then I
add the other track to the monitor, so I can match them up.

BTW, somebody asked about a BPM program for a computer just a little
while ago.  Does anybody know of one for an IBM compatible?  I guess
I could write one, but I'd rather not if there's a good one already
available.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Luke.



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 10:19:27 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 11:15:39 -0600
Subject:  Vinyl vs. CD
Status: 

I don't really want to start an argument about the merits of vinyl or
CD to store your music on, but I had heard from some of my friends
that because of the way the groove is stamped on a record, you can
hear lower subsonic sounds and higher supersonic sounds that aren't
possible on a CD because of it's frequency range.  Does anyone know
if this is true?  Supposedly this is a major reason why DJs prefer
vinyl.  I can understand that too, because really good deep house
depends on an almost subsonic bass line.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 10:30:02 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:28:07 PDT
Subject: Vinyl vs. CD
Status: 

>I don't really want to start an argument about the merits of vinyl or
>CD to store your music on, but I had heard from some of my friends
>that because of the way the groove is stamped on a record, you can
>hear lower subsonic sounds and higher supersonic sounds that aren't
>possible on a CD because of it's frequency range.  Does anyone know
>if this is true?  Supposedly this is a major reason why DJs prefer
>vinyl.  I can understand that too, because really good deep house
>depends on an almost subsonic bass line.

i think it's a load of crap.  DJs (well, at least *THIS* DJ) prefer
records because right now all the DJ-oriented CD players SUCK!
although supposedly the new Denon has jog/shuttle dials so maybe that
will improve their usability a bit...

also, regarding the extra frequency info in vinyl - most DJs play
their records with VERY heavy tonearm weights... very likely to GOUGE
most of that extra info out after 4 or 5 plays, i'd say...

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 10:32:10 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 17:33:04 +0000
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD 
Status: 


> I don't really want to start an argument about the merits of vinyl or
> CD to store your music on, but I had heard from some of my friends
> that because of the way the groove is stamped on a record, you can
> hear lower subsonic sounds and higher supersonic sounds that aren't
> possible on a CD because of it's frequency range.  Does anyone know
> if this is true?  Supposedly this is a major reason why DJs prefer
> vinyl.  I can understand that too, because really good deep house
> depends on an almost subsonic bass line.
> 

There's certainly no theoretical basis for the above, and with decent
equipment, i sincerely doubt that it's true in practice either.

The theoretically achievable response of CD is DC-22kHz.  Inpractice,
something like 10Hz-20kHz should be achievable.

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 10:50:42 1993
From: "Mike Romo*" <mike_romo*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 29 Oct 1993 10:27:38 -0800
Subject: Cleaning Mixers...?
Status: 

                      Subject:                              Time:  10:23 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Cleaning Mixers...?                   Date:  10/29/93
Hi everyone happy hallow's eve and all that...

All this talk about cleaning mixers is making me nervous.  I have a Numark 1650
mixer and it seems to be working just fine, but I got it used, and it could
PROBABLY use some cleaning.  Where doth one start when one wants to cleaneth
the mixer?

If someone who knows my new number could call me about FMR tonight, that would
be fantastic, I moved and I got off the phone tree...

See most of you at many places this weekend,
m  i k e
(boo.)




From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 11:15:40 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 12:13:59 -0600
Subject:  Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Vinyl just sounds better, at least for house music, that really
depends on full bass sound...
Also, vinyl is more mixable, you can do more with records compared to
cds...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

With newer CD players, you can do almost anything you could do on
vinyl.  They even have some CD players with a scratch bar or an open
top so you can reach in and scratch with the disk.  The main thing
that I think vinyl has above CD is the ability to fine tune the
speed.  When you're in the middle of a mix, you don't have to use +
or - buttons to bump the speed a little bit, you can push the record
itself just a little bit, and it gives you a lot more control over
the pitch.  Buttons just aren't quite as user-friendly.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 11:28:27 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 18:29:26 +0000
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply 
Status: 



> With newer CD players, you can do almost anything you could do on
> vinyl.  They even have some CD players with a scratch bar or an open
> top so you can reach in and scratch with the disk.  


Oh, come on, no way can you scratch by reaching into your cd player
and playing with the disc....

	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 11:34:11 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 12:32:57 -0600
Subject:  Cleaning Mixers...? -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
All this talk about cleaning mixers is making me nervous.  I have a
Numark 1650 mixer and it seems to be working just fine, but I got it
used, and it could
PROBABLY use some cleaning.  Where doth one start when one wants to
cleaneth the mixer?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Well, what I did to clean it was just take a can of WD40 or some
similar cleaner, and connect the small straw-like attachment to the
nozzle (for pinpointing small areas), and spray it down in between
the slider notches.  Move the slider back and forth a few times to
work it in, then spray it again.  This cleaned it out very well, and
you wouldn't really believe how much easier it is to use your
cross-faders after you do this.  Dirt and dust can clog your faders
and make them "catch" during a mix.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 11:35:44 1993
From: grigsby@agames.com@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 11:34:57 PDT
Subject: Need levitation info again
Status: 


My mailbox got nuked and I want to make sure and show at the right time and
place.  Could anyone who still has the flyer please send it or the info to:

grigsby@agames.com

and I hope my mailer will come up in time for me to get it.

Also, what's the nearest CalTrain stop to it?  I hear 6th street is
Real Close (tm)...

Thanx // g

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 11:39:19 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 12:37:39 -0600
Subject:  Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply  -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> With newer CD players, you can do almost anything you could do on
> vinyl.  They even have some CD players with a scratch bar or an
open
> top so you can reach in and scratch with the disk.  

Oh, come on, no way can you scratch by reaching into your cd player
and playing with the disc....
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

That's just what I'd heard from a friend of mine.  I know they have
some with scratch bars, so you just bump a control and it scratches
for you, but these are very expensive.  One nice component that I'd
like to try out sometime is the Roland DJ-70.  I've heard good things
about them, but has anyone here ever used one before?  It's a sampler
that is made for live sampling, looping, etc.  It has a scratch pad
built into it and a smaller keyboard so as not to take up too much
space.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 11:40:29 1993
From: Roy Badami <roy@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 18:41:26 +0000
Subject: Re: Cleaning Mixers...? -Reply 
Status: 


> Well, what I did to clean it was just take a can of WD40 or some
                                                      ^^^^

NO! This'll do more harm that good in the long run.  Use a cleaner
that's designed for the purpose....


	Cosmic

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 11:42:19 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 12:41:07 -0600
Subject:  Re: Cleaning Mixers...? -Reply  -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Well, what I did to clean it was just take a can of WD40 or some
                                                      ^^^^
NO! This'll do more harm that good in the long run.  Use a cleaner
that's designed for the purpose....
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

What brand of cleaner would you recommend?


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 11:45:50 1993
From: SROSS@CGNET.COM
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 11:45:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RAVE spots in Rome?
Status: 

Hello SFRavers,
	I don't know many of you as I've just been on the Calendar list
and I've just started going to raves...(such as YSH), but now I'm
working in Rome for a while and wondering if anyone knows any ravvy
spots here?  

Thanks!  Seeya back in SF.

Steve Ross

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 12:06:09 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 13:06:03 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply
Status: 

> With newer CD players, you can do almost anything you could do on
> vinyl.  They even have some CD players with a scratch bar or an open
> top so you can reach in and scratch with the disk.

Ummm, CD's really don't work in the same way as vinyl does.  The only thing
they have in common is the fact that they're both round.  An "open top" CD
player would not only be ridiculous (the sound would stop as soon as you'd
touch the disc), but even if it did work the same way as vinyl, you'd have to
move the CD 100x farther in order to get it to do the same "scratch".

I've worked with just about every DJ CD player on the market.  Believe me,
they've got a long ways to go before they'll "scratch".  However, vinyl will
never go from 0 to 45 rpm in 0.01 second.

> The main thing
> that I think vinyl has above CD is the ability to fine tune the
> speed.  When you're in the middle of a mix, you don't have to use +
> or - buttons to bump the speed a little bit, you can push the record
> itself just a little bit, and it gives you a lot more control over
> the pitch.  Buttons just aren't quite as user-friendly.

Most professional DJs I've seen don't fine tune the player with their hands.
They bump the pitch control up or down.  I drag my finger on the vinyl, or
push it up.  I don't see that much difference between that and the +/-
buttons.

The moral of the story is, don't try and make CDs sound like vinyl or vinyl
sound like CDs.  They both have their individual caveats that you can
exploit.  This bit about vinyl being better for bass or house music is IMHO,
unadulterated bullshit.  Ask how many of the boom cars cruising the streets
how many of them prefer vinyl for their bass response.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 12:24:16 1993
From: rslau@ucs.usc.edu (Robert Lau)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 12:24:08 PDT
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply 
Status: 

hey, batman did it... :)
okay, okay, that was a stupid scene...

-robert

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 12:39:09 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 12:38:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply
Status: 

On Oct 29, 12:13pm, you proclaimed:
} With newer CD players, you can do almost anything you could do on
} vinyl.  They even have some CD players with a scratch bar or an open
} top so you can reach in and scratch with the disk.  

You saw "Batman Returns", didn't you? :)  Seriously, I HIGHLY
doubt there exists a CD player which would allow you to directly
touch the spinning disc and scratch with it; not only is the data
encoded in a way thay would make no sense played backwards, but
try backspinning at 200rpm! :)

} The main thing
} that I think vinyl has above CD is the ability to fine tune the
} speed.  When you're in the middle of a mix, you don't have to use +
} or - buttons to bump the speed a little bit, you can push the record
} itself just a little bit, and it gives you a lot more control over
} the pitch.  Buttons just aren't quite as user-friendly.

The Denon 2000 has a sliding pitch control; I've used it successfully
by "pulsing" (bumping it down or up a small amount and then returning)
to get the same effect as holding a finger on the spinning platter of
a 1200, to fine-tune it.

	Brian


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 12:55:29 1993
From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 15:52:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Cleaning Mixers...?
Status: 

>All this talk about cleaning mixers is making me nervous.  I have a Numark 1650
>mixer and it seems to be working just fine, but I got it used, and it could
>PROBABLY use some cleaning.  Where doth one start when one wants to cleaneth
>the mixer?

I'm crossposting to BPM because someone already brought the discussion there
while replying to you. First, never use WD40. Also, dont use something that
is not made for cleaning electrical contacts like lock de-icer (yup i've
heard this one a few times). Dont use alcohol either cause it will remove all
the lubricant. Radio shack sells a contact cleaner product specially made for
hifi volume controls. This is perfect. Dont put too much btw. If you really
want to deep clean, use compressed air (RS also sells that). If you do go for
a cleaner with lubricant (which contains a petroleum solvent to remove the
grease) (i dont suggest this) then you will have to do it each month or your
faders will grind down very fast. In worst case situation, you can get
replacement faders for most mixers. I had bought 2 when i got my mixer but i
have yet to use them (they costed 4.95$ each at my local electronic components
distributor).

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 13:00:53 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 13:57:33 -0600
Subject:  BPM counting software
Status: 

Well, never mind about the previous message regarding a BPM counting
program.  I just decided to whip one up really quick.  It's very
simple, and works with any DOS machine.  You simply press a key on
the downbeat, count 32 beats, then press a key again.  Remember when
you're counting beats, that the end of the 32nd beat is right at the
start of the next beat, so you'll want to press the key again right
on the downbeat of the 9th measure.  The program is very small, so
I've attached it to this message.  Feel free to give it to whoever
you want to.  If you have feedback on it for me, send me email
directly, so as not to tie up bandwidth.

begin 666 BPM.EXE
M35K``2X`#``@````__^4!8``````````/@````$`^U!J<@``````````````
M```````````````````````!````MP,``+P#``#(`P``+`0``.,$``#T!```
M_@0```H%```4!0``C04``%0G4@(`````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
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M9`!T;W1A;`!S96,`;6EN`&5N9`!S=&%R=`!F<&]S7W0`<VEZ95]T`'1I7VUI
9;@!T:5]H;W5R`'1I7VAU;F0`=&E?<V5C````
`
end


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 13:03:41 1993
From: Velocity-9 <punkboy@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 13:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: orbital/moby/afx tix help?
Status: 

hey, does anyone here know how to buy tickets for the orbital/moby/afx
thing on oct 14 in SF?

heeeeeelp!

thanks :)

-gts/uwiz

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 13:12:57 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 14:09:58 -0600
Subject:  Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> that I think vinyl has above CD is the ability to fine tune the
> speed.  When you're in the middle of a mix, you don't have to use +
> or - buttons to bump the speed a little bit, you can push the
record
> itself just a little bit, and it gives you a lot more control over
> the pitch.  Buttons just aren't quite as user-friendly.

Most professional DJs I've seen don't fine tune the player with their
hands.
They bump the pitch control up or down.  I drag my finger on the
vinyl, or push it up.  I don't see that much difference between that
and the +/- buttons.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

What I was saying was that you can get greater control by dragging
the record or bumping it up than you can with +/- buttons, simply
because you have a feel for how much to drag, or how much to push the
record up.  +/- buttons work the same way, but your only control over
how much it changes the pitch is by how long you hold the button
down.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 13:16:46 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 14:13:30 -0600
Subject:  Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Denon 2000 has a sliding pitch control; I've used it successfully
by "pulsing" (bumping it down or up a small amount and then
returning) to get the same effect as holding a finger on the spinning
platter of a 1200, to fine-tune it.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

That seems like a very hard way to do it.  The 2000 also has +/- keys
that do the same thing.  I'll have to give that a try though, but it
seems as if it would be tougher to get back to the original position
on the slider after bumping it.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 13:20:48 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 14:19:33 -0600
Subject:  Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But if you want to get more bass in the 30-60 Hz, there are full of
bass reconstructor units you can buy. These will simulate a "first
harmonic" from the first harmonic in the 60Hz to 120 Hz zone down to
half in 30-60Hz.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

What is an average price on a bass reconstructor?  I assume you could
find one at any type of store that sells proffesional audio
equipment.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 13:24:45 1993
From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 13:24:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: LIZ goodbye party
Status: 

Sf ravers Liz Loves You,
She is that fab YSH girl who always is dancing and being wonderful
(the one named liz) She is going east and is having a house party
oct 30th sat 5:00 till ? on 871 page st#3 between pierce and scott.
salutations
allen@ameba

ps no hawkwind info as yet.  stephen may spin today.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 13:28:21 1993
From: grigsby@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Spiral Death Trap)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 16:28:12 -0400
Subject: Help - when/where's the Stock Exchange 2nite?
Status: 


Yes, if anyone gets this early this aft, my mailbox vanished a while ago
and I am now clueless.  So, anyone with time/etc. can call me @
408-434-1762 and leave a message if I'm not around ... my net feed has
died too.  Blech!  (boccibob, maybe?  did you get my earlier mail or
did our feed die before that?)

I plan on making it but don't want to go all the way up to SF and miss.

Thanx in advance...leave msg ASAP.  If you're driving up from South Bay
that's even better, I can meet you from where you leave.  

Thanx. 408-434-1762. // g

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 14:07:10 1993
From: Jeffrey Moore <jmoore@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 14:06:50 -0700
Subject: Re:  Cleaning Mixers...?
Status: 

compressed air is the best thing for clogged sliders and dirty circuit
boards. Cans a can be had at your local hardware store.

-Jeff


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 14:17:06 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 14:17:23 -0700
Subject: SHARON
Status: 

WHere is it and when?

Hoss

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 14:17:22 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 14:19:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Help - when/where's the Stock Exchange 2nite?
Status: 

At  2:08 PM 10/29/93 -0400, High Priest X-X-X wrote:

>5:00 (when it starts, it will go for a while, I'd imagine).
>SF Stock Exchange, Pine St., about 3 blocks North of Emabarcadero BART.


jamie

jamiel@sybase.com
"Static- It's all just static"- Bryna Bank



From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 14:29:08 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 14:29:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply
Status: 

At 01:06 PM 10/29/93, Pete Ashdown wrote:
>                       Ask how many of the boom cars cruising the streets
>how many of them prefer vinyl for their bass response.

Yah, every time you hit a bump, instead of going "boom" it goes "srkitch
bounce bounce bounce", hit a pothole and you have to pry the needle out of 
the record.  :^)


From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 19:13:17 1993
From: megatest!kermit!preiter@uu2.psi.com (Pete Reiter)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 16:53:02 PDT
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Status: 

To me, the major reason why vinyl is currently better than CDs is the 
availability of music on the two formats. I'd give CDs the edge in sound
quality, only because most DJ's records are trashed. Just watch how your
average DJ treats their records some time. 

The vinyl vs. CD controls are not that big a deal. I would imagine that just
about anyone who DJs could get used to either one.

The real issue is, what format is the music you want to play available on?
There is just so much brilliant music out there on vinyl that will never
get to CD. If I were a DJ, and had to choose. I'd go with vinyl, for now.
I prefer the digital format because you don't need to baby it as much, but
let's face it, the music is what's important, not the format.



Pete

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 21:13:48 1993
From: martian <turpin@stargate.apple.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 21:06:57 -0700
Subject: On Sale Now at the Shack!
Status: 



Hey everybody! I just made my dreaded spare parts trip to
Radio Shack and found that the Minimus 7 speakers are on
sale now ($29.99 each). I know it may sound strange indorsing
a RS product, but if you have never heard these little speakers,
you should stop by and take a look  (listen?) at them.

These are portable die-cast metal two way speakers that actually sound
very good especially for $60 a pair. They are very rugged and
can handle alot of abuse (electronically and physically).

These work very well for small dj'ing monitors, especially if
you mix with the higher frequency stuff, but they do put out
more bass than you would expect. They also work great for
outdoor/patio speakers.

Notes:

* do not expect them to sound like a pair of $500 speakers

* they are not self powered - you need an amp (for $30 what do you expect)

* They are sold separately so you can buy just one
  if you only need it for mono monitoring

* Apr. size = 10h"x6w"x6d"

* RS would be a great place if they would just get rid of the fucking
  idiots that work there.


??? fmr tonight ?????

shazam!

johnny t.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Oct 29 23:25:59 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 23:26:37 PDT
Subject: On Sale Now at the Shack! 
Status: 

Forwarded message: (Originally from a johnnie t. post )
> Hey everybody! I just made my dreaded spare parts trip to
> Radio Shack and found that the Minimus 7 speakers are on
> sale now ($29.99 each). 

> These work very well for small dj'ing monitors, especially if
> you mix with the higher frequency stuff, but they do put out
> more bass than you would expect. They also work great for
> outdoor/patio speakers.

One thing , outside of the good characteristics - BEWARE! These speakers
are not magnetically shielded - so don't set them next to a video monitor 
or TV , and don't put magnetic media ( cassettes , floppy disks ) on them 
or next to them.

	Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

 

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 00:03:19 1993
From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 03:01:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: On Sale Now at the Shack!
Status: 

Beyond the ultraworld of Larry Ching:
> 
> Forwarded message: (Originally from a johnnie t. post )
> > Hey everybody! I just made my dreaded spare parts trip to
> > Radio Shack and found that the Minimus 7 speakers are on
> > sale now ($29.99 each). 
> 
> One thing , outside of the good characteristics - BEWARE! These speakers
> are not magnetically shielded - so don't set them next to a video monitor 
> or TV , and don't put magnetic media ( cassettes , floppy disks ) on them 
> or next to them.

The metal ones are not shielded? This is a bad move on their part... The MTX
, Ramsa and Bose are shielded for those who want to use them as multimedia
monitors.

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 00:07:40 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 93 00:07:19 PDT
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Status: 


> let's face it, the music is what's important, not the format.

Not really.  If Jeno's favorite track was released only on CD and not on vinyl,
do you think he would play it when he DJs?  Of course not.  When was the last
time you saw anyone play a CD at a rave (or club)?  (Other than Pete Ashdown,
of course.)


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 02:20:23 1993
From: martian <turpin@stargate.apple.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 93 02:14:50 -0700
Subject: Re: On Sale Now at the Shack! 
Status: 



>> Hey everybody! I just made my dreaded spare parts trip to
>> Radio Shack and found that the Minimus 7 speakers are on
>> sale now ($29.99 each). 

>> These work very well for small dj'ing monitors, especially if
>> you mix with the higher frequency stuff, but they do put out
>> more bass than you would expect. They also work great for
>> outdoor/patio speakers.

> One thing , outside of the good characteristics - BEWARE! These speakers
> are not magnetically shielded - so don't set them next to a video monitor 
> or TV , and don't put magnetic media ( cassettes , floppy disks ) on them 
> or next to them.


OK - So $60 for the speakers 
          +
     $1.99 Box of Aluminum Foil
 --------------------------------

  $61.99 - still a good deal :P


> The metal ones are not shielded? This is a bad move on their part... The MTX
> , Ramsa and Bose are shielded for those who want to use them as multimedia
> monitors.

How much are these? I use AR Powered Partner 570's as my "MultiMedia" monitors.
A little on the expensive side, but hey - their shielded and sound great.
BTW - Anyone know if AR(Acoustic Research) is still around? Someone at work just
tried to order a pair and couldn't find any.



johnny t.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 10:32:00 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 93 10:32:38 PDT
Subject: Re: On Sale Now at the Shack!
Status: 

 
Minimus 7 speaker review , continued:
 
> 
> >> Radio Shack ... Minimus 7 speakers are on
> >> sale now ($29.99 each). 
> 
> > One thing , outside of the good characteristics - BEWARE! These speakers
> > are not magnetically shielded - so don't set them next to a video monitor 
> > or TV , and don't put magnetic media ( cassettes , floppy disks ) on them 
> > or next to them.
> 
> 
> OK - So $60 for the speakers 
>           +
>      $1.99 Box of Aluminum Foil
>  --------------------------------
> 
>   $61.99 - still a good deal :P
> 
 Unfortunetly , aluminium foil only works to for electric fields , not
magnetic . You have to buy a special foil that blocks static magnetic fields
to do the job right. ( I don't know where they sell this foil - I've seen
it advertised in electronic catalogs ).

 I own a pair of these , and the magnetic field is kind of wimpy , if 
picking up nails is an alternate function you want to use Minimus 7 
speakers for. However , it is strong enough to screw up the colors and
focus on a video monitor or tv. I haven't tried to erase magnetic tape with
it yet , but I wouldn't leave any magnetic media near it. 

 I tried wrapping the back & sides of one of my speakers with aluminium
foil , but it still put out a magnetic field strong enough to warp my
monitor's display. Wrapping a magnet in aluminium foil still allowed me
to pick up paperclips.

Larry " Doctor Science " Ching/larryc@netcom.com 

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 14:33:41 1993
From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 17:31:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Status: 

Beyond the ultraworld of Pete Reiter:
> 
> To me, the major reason why vinyl is currently better than CDs is the 
> availability of music on the two formats. I'd give CDs the edge in sound
> quality, only because most DJ's records are trashed. Just watch how your
> average DJ treats their records some time. 

Not only that. A stanton 500 is far from hi end. Same thing with the Shure 35.
Stanton 680EEEL are semi hi end. Now an Ortofon MC30 SUPER is definitely high
end audio and has better frequency response than any CD player (or even
higher the model MC2000 which has a frequency response of 15 Hz to 90KHz but
cost more than a Denon 2700 dual cd player!) but you wont be able to
scratch with that and it would be a waste with the tonearm found on the 1200.

> The real issue is, what format is the music you want to play available on?
> There is just so much brilliant music out there on vinyl that will never
> get to CD.

Never say never... You can buy a CD recorder for less than 4000$ CDN now,
and prices have been falling very rapidly. Also you can go to some music
store and get a record or DAT transfered to CD for 40-50$ CDN. Now it may
look steep, but you can have 70 minutes of only the songs YOU want. Now,
some evil minded people would then resell their vinyls, but that is not
legal... Also, now with the 128 Mb "floppies" it is trivial to store a full
hour of music in ADPCM and do a DJ "floppy" player with a pair of these and
a pair of 16 bit soundcards in a PC...

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 16:13:38 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 93 16:14:17 PDT
Subject: small monitors
Status: 

Those baby JBL's with the titanium tweeter and bass port 
(more efficient) sometimes go on sale at Circuit City for $49.00 each.
The Minimus 7's can't take any real power.


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 17:19:32 1993
From: Adam Sah <asah@ginsberg.CS.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 93 17:20:15 -0700
Subject: an awesome awesome thing is fmr.
Status: 

Just a million thanks to everyone who made the halloween fmr happen, and
  especially Brian, for talking with the cops and helping fend off the
  impending bust.

I'll spare everyone the bandwidth of the what-happened story.  If you were
  there, then you were there.  If not, this was the -perfect- rave (good
  sound, good system, picture-perfect loc, right temp, good vibe), modulo
  the balloons everywhere: the 'greed ain't the deal.  see bri's faq- he's
  right.

raveoncatcharavevibedancepartychill

adam


From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 17:21:50 1993
From: Alex Holub <aholub@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 17:21:43 -0700
Subject: Re: This Week's SF Rave Guide: 111 Minna party
Status: 





b

.d

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 18:55:37 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 18:55:30 -0700
Subject: Addition to Rave Guide
Status: 


Juice & Where the Wild Thing Are Present
CHURCH (reborn)
Sunday, Halloween nite @ DV8
DubTribe Live
Carlos, Ernie, Buck + Reese (NYC, from the Orb show)
All Ages

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 19:30:14 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 19:30:09 -0700
Subject: FMR success story #545
Status: 

        The party last night went off really well; it was probably the largest
one there yet, with 2500 people or so.  The music started around 3, early for
them, so they got a LOT of nighttime music until the sun came up around 7.
The police showed up around 4, but a few of us talked to them and assuaged
their main concers, which were people hurting themselves in the water or on
the cliffs, cars being broken into, etc.  They didn't see any alcohol being
brought into the party, so that was a major plus for them.  Probably the
most brilliant thing was the columns of helium balloons someone had brought - 
it certainly provided an adequate explanation for the pshshshshst sound of
the nitrous tanks!

        The weather was PERFECT (I love california, did I mention?) and
when the sun rose one could see that a fair number of people in the crowd
actually got into the Halloween spirit bye dressing up.  

        The sound system could have been better, but it was because they were
using smaller speakers which were easier to haul up the ridge and down to
the beach.  I think at the next party we should collect money for the 
construction of a staircase from the parking lot up to where the gradual
sand pathway to the beach is on the left hand side.  Those rocks up the side
are REALLY dangerous.  How much would someone say a staircase could be 
built for?

        Anyways, it was great to see everyone, great to be a part of 
something I'll be telling my grandkids about, and great to show a couple
of new-timers the crown jewels of the SF scene.

        Brian

From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 20:46:59 1993
From: David L. Bayer <dlb@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 20:46:52 -0700
Subject: ???
Status: 



From sfraves-owner  Sat Oct 30 21:58:00 1993
From: Derek Yu <derek@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 21:57:55 -0700
Subject: SAT RAVES???
Status: 


can someone e-mail me the tel. # of the events goign on tonight...
thanks very much


-Derek



From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 31 01:04:41 1993
From: StevenJ <aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 03:04:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: from smiles to frowns
Status: 

Melissa and I just got back home from Grave Reverence.  We had a
GREAT time, but we had to leave a bit early 'cause we're both
getting over colds and have stuff to do this weekend.  The event
was everything it promised to be:  back to basics, thumpin' music,
wide & thick vibe, friendly, smiling people.  The best set spun was
ESP Woody's; a mix of harder trancier stuff with just enough of a
house influence.  I danced my ass off for the whole set.  The
number of vendors was kept down to a minimum and the venue for the
rave was about 40 minutes out from Milwaukee in a skate rink (ala
Rejoice, but not quite as big).  When we left around 3am there were
about 750-1000 people bouncin' around and enjoying the vibe.  But
then...

The music stopped and a man came on the mic.  He said his name was
John and was speaking on behalf of a gentleman named Attorney
Pangman who has been taking care of the civil suit left-over from
the Grave fiasco of last Halloween.  Pangman also had a booth set
up in the vendor area handing out flyers about `fighting for your
right to be left alone' and so on.  As John continued to speak
about Attorney Pangman he used phrases which evoked images of the
cops busting us all at Grave last year, muscling us around, holding
us without charging us for hours and for some an entire day.  It
may be legal, but it's just plain wrong.  John spoke of how our
rights were violated and how Mr. Pangman has been fighting for
those rights for months in Milwaukee civil court.  This is a
dubious claim at best.

If you don't know what happened last year at Grave I can give a
very brief summary.  A very large rave took place, Grave, on
Halloween, 1992.  At about 1:30am the Milwaukee police shut down
the party and proceeded to hand-cuff us all and write citations
which included fines of over $300.  Most of the details aren't that
important for the point I'm trying to get to.  It seems that Mr.
Pangman is now running for a Wisconsin State Senate seat and feels
that he will be able to snatch up the `rave scene vote' by
proselytizing the masses at raves in the Milwaukee area.  I don't
know about you, but this makes me sick to my stomach.  Details
aside, he had very little to do with getting the charges against us
dropped last year, this was the work of Peter Musante.  I am in no
way trying to pump up Mr. Musante's reputation, this is not my
mission.  What I want to do is make you aware of who Mr. Pangman is
and what he is really doing.

By stopping the vibe at a rave he doesn't at all support the scene. 
Also, I am very disappointed in Drop Bass for allowing Mr. Pangman
to speak at Grave Reverence when what he is doing has absolutely
nothing to do with the scene.  He just wants votes.  If he wants
our vote, drop some info in our backpacks and let us make an
informed decision for ourselves.  If we need more info or want to
volunteer for his cause we'll call him.  If he is so strongly
fighting for our right to be left alone, then leave us alone.  I
just don't feel that a rave is the place for getting votes for
being elected to a public office.

I'm going to be getting copies of this letter to all the rave
mailing lists on Internet, to some of the Milwaukee and Chicago
zines and to Reactor in Chicago.  I'm not trying to whip up anger
aimed at Mr. Pangman.  He has every right to do what he is doing,
I just feel that it is wrong and I would hope that everyone
realizes what he is really trying to do and just ignore him.  After
the next Wisconsin State Senate election, he'll just go back to his
law practice and hopefully we won't have to deal with him anymore.


Steve White
stevenJ on vrave
aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 31 07:51:46 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 93 7:51:39 PST
Subject: Re: FMR success story #545
Status: 

Brian:
>         The sound system could have been better, but it was because they were
> using smaller speakers which were easier to haul up the ridge and down to
> the beach.

When I first saw those speakers, I got worried cause they seemed rather
puny.  But they really delivered a powerful punchy sound.  No complaints
from me.

I thought Garth played an amazing set of hard driving stuff, a lot of
old favorites and I lot of songs I usually hear in other people's sets.
None of that slower funky disco house music this time.  He really blew
me away.  Markie & Jeno also delivered the goods.  A 4th DJ that no one
seemed to know (Nick?) ended the party with some really nice trance.
I was in heaven.  This was one great party.  What little rowdiness
there was (fireworks, nitrous, screaming assholes) seemed to fade away
long before sunrise.

>  Those rocks up the side
> are REALLY dangerous.

You mean the ones by the tracks that I fell on my ass on climbing
down?  

> How much would someone say a staircase could be 
> built for?

How about an escalator?

> something I'll be telling my grandkids about, and great to show a couple
> of new-timers the crown jewels of the SF scene.

It was pretty beautiful for us old timers too.  Janie & I thank
everyone involved. :-)

- leg of eel

From sfraves-owner  Sun Oct 31 12:18:08 1993
From: Seeta Pena Gangadharan <whoa@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 12:17:49 -0800
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD -Reply
Status: 



From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 09:42:41 1993
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 09:43:21 -0800
Subject: Rave report...
Status: 

Rave report
===========

  Busiest weekend for me since LoveStock...   I started at YSH where it
was held at end of 24th St.    Beautiful weather blessed us with wonderful
raving environment.

  Friday was the FMR,  Brian reported some on that,  but with about 2000+
people,  the energy was intense,   and the sound system might have needed
more balls,  I can see why nobody would want to haul bigger speakers
down that steep slope.

  I danced so hard that I had to jump in the ocean to chill out.   My first
"dip" was at about 4:30am,  and was most "chilling",  although the water
temperature was slightly warmer than the air.  I'd say about 60 degrees
or so.   But I think I might have raised the ocean temperature up a few
degrees I was so hot.    After that initial "dip",  I continued taking
ocassional swims to cool off.   Sure felt GREAT!!   Saw a few others also
taking the plunge.   The trick is to get past the breakers but not to
get out too far,  So's not to be "shark food".

   The party wound down about 1 to 2 PM,   and then I headed back up the
SF where we tried to find the "Boom box" party.   I looked for the radio
signal to try and tune it in on the car radio,   but wasn't sure of the
frequency.   I chilled out at Radions pad for a few hours then headed over
to Liz's party that evening,  then to the Taz party at 607 Haight st.

   Things were hopping over there,  but I also wanted to check out the
Vinnie St party.   It was really wonderful there..  But I missed the dungion
show by a few minutes (Drat!!).

   After that,  it was over to Casper,  thanx to the generosity of Carlos
who provided me an opportunity to attend.   As usual,  Carlos did his insane
set,  and I enjoyed very much the opportunity to provide my awsome energy to 
his sets.    It was very crowded,  but they had a nice outside chill area
but NO live video links (At least not while I was there),   like the flyer
said.

  Then over to the Funkey Techno Tribe I went,   and that enery was totally
awsome.   I think it was the best one yet.  Very powerful acid trance sets
kept my body moving in a tizzy.    By this time,  I had already been up
without sleep for 3 days,  and was pondering leaving early,  but thanx to
a head boost,  I stayed through the end,  before heading out to Boogie Buffet.

  Was thinking of heading over to the DNA for the after party,  but I liked
the Boogie Buffet scene and I just couldn't turn down the breakfast.

  How was the Crissy field party and the DNA after party... Any reports?
What about Awakening??  How was that?
  
Cheers.... T'was a wonderful sleepless weekend....  Now feel GREAT after
a 12 hour sleep.  Don't feel sore a bit...   And I'm back to work as
usual.   Have witnessed 3 sunrises since I slept last...

Hope you other ravers has as much fun as I did...

CC

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 10:28:22 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1993 11:16:01 -0800
Subject: Re: FMR success story #545
Status: 

At 07:51 AM 10/31/93 PST, Lee Fogel wrote:
>Brian:
>>         The sound system could have been better, but it was because they were
>> using smaller speakers which were easier to haul up the ridge and down to
>> the beach.

The sound did seem rather quiet at first, but got louder after a while.

>I thought Garth played an amazing set of hard driving stuff

\o/    _o/     o_   _ /   \*/ 
 |_    \|/    /|_    |    _|_
/             /     /o\

:^) :^) :^) 

>None of that slower funky disco house music this time.

I didn't hear hardly any disco until almost 9 in the morning (not sure who was
spinning by that time) at which point I bailed.  I can't get any energy from
that kind of music and I was getting hungry anyway.

>> ...great to show a couple of new-timers the crown jewels of the SF scene.
>It was pretty beautiful for us old timers too.  Janie & I thank
>everyone involved. :-)

Yes Yes Yes!!

That's such a fabulous place for a rave, and that was a fabulous rave!


From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 11:29:03 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 11:28:44 -0800
Subject: comparing CASPER "stories"
Status: 

I was at the East Coast Casper this weekend, and would like to compare
"stories" with any of you who went to the West Coast Casper.

(1) Video Link -- we were told in Rhode Island that the reason there was
	no video link was because the SF Casper crew didn't want to pay
	for their side of the link.  What story were you all given out
	in SF?

(2) Dutch -- I was looking forward to seeing him in Rhode Island, but
	I was told he pulled out two weeks before the event.  It's actually
	a very good thing he didn't come, for reasons that will be
	revealed below.

It was a dark and stormy night when the Trance Shuttle (piloted by Captain 
Mellow, with First Officer Finks navigating, Spaceman Spliff providing trance 
ambiance, and Cadet Trillian just being enthusiastic) arrived at Rocky Point 
Amusement Park near Warwick, RI, the site of the East Coast Casper.  

It was SOOOOO wet, simply pouring rain.  After wandering the park aimlessly
getting soaked we found "The Mausoleum," one of two major indoor dance areas.
Wonder of wonders, there was NO music coming out of it.  It seems that there
was some sort of lawyers banquet in the banquet hall next door, and they
couldn't hear the keynote speaker over dieselBoy's breaks.  So we checked out
the other dance floor and heard Guy DMC and Tiga spin and chilled with
Jake (Melon Dezign) a bit.  The visuals were so cool again, Jake, and thanks
for saying "hi" to us on the big screen.

At midnight all the net ravers met at the rollercoaster.  It had stopped
raining so some of us took a ride, and then we returned to the first dance 
floor where the music had taken off again.  The rest of the night was pretty 
much like any other rave -- lots of music, gorgeous lights, cool lasers,
friendly people.  

Personally, I was not too thrilled with the music except for Scott Henry's
otherworldly trance set.  Someone put down a really cheezoid wailing diva
house set, and then there was a spate of 70's disco, so that sort of put me 
out of the mood for dancing.  Overall, though, a huge number of people
were dancing their butts off, so I'd say that the party was a decent one.

And now for the aftermath:  around 6.00 am or so the promoter came on the
sound system and told us they had lost like 25K and so were collecting 
donations so they could pay the DJs.  I later heard from Jake (who will
hopefully share his story with us) that one of the investors, Greg, took
his money and left without making sure there was funding to pay the DJs
and lights/effects people.  There was a mob scene at the end, and I hear a 
number of people didn't get paid.  It seems to me there was quite a bit of 
poor planning here.  If they had merely rented the dance halls and not the 
whole park, and had charged $15 rather than $22/$25, I think things would
have worked out a lot better.  There wre a LOT of people there, but by
renting the whole park during this traditionally gross (weather-wise) time
of year, they were being a bit over-enthusiastic and naieve.

Oh well.  It was a nice party -- mainly because there were SO many ne-ravers
and other ravers there.  The people who came were having a great time.

See some of you at Colourbox on Wednesday, and at Timewarp on Friday!

Love and Community,

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 11:33:03 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 11:32:51 PST
Subject: weekend update...
Status: 


wednesday: Motion in SJ... a really good time, rick preston played
some incredible stuff, and spun was good too, though I left early
trying to conserve energy for...

thursday: YSH outside at the 24th and Illinois (off of 3rd) space,
with DRC spinning an INCREDIBLE set of hard driving tunes, followed up
by Susan and Rebecca.  I was in heaven!  Lots of fresh faces, good
sized crowd, good sound too.

friday: didn't make it to levitate the stock exchange (how was it?)
because I didn't get home until 7:30 AM :-) but I did get it together
for the FMR... it was wonderful to arrive at 2:45 AM and have the
sound going and about 2,000 people there already.  I was amazed when
someone told me that it was Garth that had been spinning for the first
couple of hours, it was totally different than the stuff he usually
plays.  Things really picked up for me once the sun came up and I
could see everyone... saw lots of friends I haven't seen since the
July FMR and/or Unity.

saturday: got home from the FMR at 1:30 PM, grabbed a couple of hours
of sleep and ate, went up to the city for Liz's going away party,
which was really nice and low key and it was cool to hang out with
everyone without a sound system for a change :-)  got home early
(1ish) to recover for...

sunday: thai food and George Clinton!  groovy show...

I think I would have died without that extra hour of sleep Saturday
night :-)

Bob

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 11:36:50 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 14:36:38 EST
Subject: Vinyl vs. CD
Status: 

To answer the *original* question:

 > I don't really want to start an argument about the merits of vinyl or
 > CD to store your music on, but I had heard from some of my friends
 > that because of the way the groove is stamped on a record, you can
 > hear lower subsonic sounds and higher supersonic sounds that aren't
 > possible on a CD because of it's frequency range.  Does anyone know
 > if this is true?

The answer is: it depends on what you believe.

Theoretically, vinyl has a wider frequency range than a CD. A great
deal depends upon the mass of the needle, tracking weight, tonearm
mass, shape of the needle, quality of the pressing, how dust filled
the grooves are, quality of the preamp, turntable resonation, etc.
These variables are rarely ever all optimal at the same time, except
perhaps in very expensive high-end systems. How often are they optimal
at a rave?

In any case, the ability of almost all speakers to reproduce music
drops off dramatically near the ends of the audible spectrum. It costs
a fortune to be able to pump out high-volume 20hz, and practically
nothing recorded has it. Almost all the bass thump you will ever hear
is 50-60hz. Speaker cabinets are tuned specifically for this.

As far as high end goes, your hearing rolls off quite steeply starting
at about 16 KHz. Practically nothing recorded has audio above 20 KHz.
Belief comes into play here, because some people feel that the ability
to hear ultra-high frequency harmonics (say 20-160 KHz) is important.
Other people will point out that science says you can't sense sound in
that range at all. I should point out that powerfully amplified
ultrasonics carry a lot of energy. Your ear couldn't sense it, but 
would be rapidly damaged by it.

The theoretical low end of a CD is 1/4500 Hz :) (one cycle every 75
minutes), but they roll it off steeply at 20 Hz. D/A conversion gets
weird below that anyway, at least for audio. The high end is 22.5 KHz.

D/A conversion, oversampling, etc. is truly a black art, and one of
the most misunderstood pieces of commonly used technology. I'm not
even going to go into that one :).

For purity of sound and frequency response, the chances of a turntable
beating out a CD player at a rave are grim. For whatever reasons DJs
use turntables, it isn't because of wider frequency response. I'd say
the availability of records, and the "hands on" format.

Sean

(closet audiophile)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 13:04:17 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 11:32:56 PST
Subject: School choice: long, non-rave
Status: 


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From: ww@blythe.org (Workers World Service)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Racist School Voucher System Assailed, NJ
Keywords: New Jersey, education, racism, school vouchers
Message-ID: <w925Bc44w165w@blythe.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 12:27:43 EDT
Reply-To: ww@blythe.org (Workers World Service)
Distribution: world
Organization: NY Transfer News Collective
Lines: 125


Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit


JERSEY CITY: COMMUNITY, TEACHERS EXPOSE RACIST VOUCHER SYSTEM

By Workers World Jersey City, N.J., bureau

On Oct. 11, the All-Peoples Congress held the first public
meeting in Jersey City to plan a response to a well-financed
national campaign against public education for all.

The dangerous initiative is called "school choice." Its leader is
Mayor Bret Schundler, a former Wall Street investment broker.

"School choice" is not about a child going to her/his school of
choice at all. It is a code word for school segregation.

It is also an effort to drain public schools of desperately
needed funds in order to bail out private schools through a
"voucher" system.

Under a "school choice" system, students from wealthier families
would receive public money to go to private schools.

But poor students wouldn't be able to afford the vouchers. And
private schools wouldn't be legally bound--as public schools
are--to accept all students, including people of color and those
who are disabled or have special learning needs.

Public funding of parochial schools violates the constitutional
separation of church and state. Reactionary forces have long
sought to overcome this barrier.

It amounts to privatization of the schools. A national
organization called "Citizens for School Choice" is coordinating
the effort.

To accomplish it here in Jersey City, Schundler has hired someone
from the right-wing think tank The Heritage Foundation.

WHO WILL PAY?

How would it work?

The mayor recently sent a mailing to 40,000 homes. In it he
promises parents a voucher worth $5,000 for each child taken out
of Jersey City public schools.

The information is misleading and inaccurate.

The voucher money would be pooled and divided equally among all
children currently enrolled in the private school. So the actual
value of the voucher would depend on the number of children
transferred.

This year the Jersey City schools will spend about $8,500 for
each of the district's 31,000 children. Using these figures, if
100 students transfer out of the public schools to private
schools, the voucher would be worth $50.

If 1,000 children leave the public schools the voucher would be
worth about $463.

The parents would make up the difference between the amount of
the voucher and the cost of the private school. The mayor doesn't
mention this.

UNION BUSTING AND SEGREGATION

Tom Favia, president of the Jersey City Education Association,
attended the Oct. 11 meeting, along with several teachers. Favia
discussed the union's opposition to vouchers.

He said: "This is union busting. The private school teachers are
underpaid and overworked."

Former Jersey City Superintendent of Schools--and the first
African American to hold this post--Franklin Williams was there,
too. He demanded, "What happened to $100 million in state aid to
our schools over the past four years?"

"The problem with the schools is unequal funding between the
suburban schools and inner-city schools," said Aura Highsmith,
YMCA board member and a parent. "The answer is not to take away
more money from public schools."

Public school teacher Vikki Chenette said: "The origins of the
school voucher movement are in the racist opposition to
desegregation. Vouchers are a code word for segregation and
racism."

The Rev. George Mazie is president of the Ministerial Alliance,
representing 26 churches in the Black community. He called for
demonstrations against the voucher plan.

Both Charles McCallister of the Bidwell Avenue Block Association
and Deacon Jake Mincey of the Mountain of Prayer Church
encouraged the community to join forces with the teachers' union.

All-Peoples Congress member Clinton Royster asked, "What will
happen to the curriculum of inclusion at these private schools?"
He said this underscores the voucher plan's anti-poor and
segregationist bent.

"School choice" is a first-step measure toward privatizing the
public schools. As it is, the public-school system is beset with
corruption, inadequate funding, insensitivity to people of
African, Latino and Asian heritage, and dominated by school
boards that are anti-gay and sexist.

As community leader John Jones concluded, "The answer is equal
funding and a strong united movement for community control of the
schools--not privatization."

                               -30-

(Copyright Workers World Service: Permission to reprint granted
if source is cited. For more information contact Workers World,
55 West 17 St., New York, NY 10011; via e-mail: ww@blythe.org.)


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-- 

                           "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
                                                     -- Dan Quayle
                      



	"The noblest of pursuits can hardly be thought much by men whose
	 own way of life run counter to it."
				Socrates from The Republic of Plato


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From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 13:31:29 1993
From: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 13:31:23 -0800
Subject: Halloweekend
Status: 

Well, it really started Wednesday when I picked up my new (new to me
anyway) 1200s :)

Thursday I flew in from portland and headed immediately to YSH.  Well,
not exactly immediately, it seems that Susie thought it was going to be
at the Somar space again.  Went there, found it deserted except for a
van with some folks who also seemed to be lost.  Turned out they were
from all over (one from New Jersey!) -- we called the info line, headed
to Cleo's in short order and then to the site.  So we made some new
friends along the way and helped them to get to the party and it all
worked out.  

And it was quite a workout -- musically, the best YSH I've been to (not
that I've been to all that many).  DRC was just flat kickin' out the jams,
a really high-intensity set with energy that just would not quit.  Susan
followed with an equally potent mix and both had a good portion of the
crowd going full-tilt.  When Rebecca arrived to do the cleanup spot, she
conferred for a moment and then gave Susan the go-ahead for what turned
out to be a brilliant second-wind finale; I think she was on for about
two and a quarter hours all told.  We had to leave fairly soon into
Rebecca's set which was deep and funkeeee.  The sound system was quite
good and Bob R "got down wit DAT" and I am certainly looking forward to
hearing my birthday show on tape :)

Plenty enough has been said about the FMR, so I won't add much more.
Eight of us arrived in M and P-ter Normals' little pickup truck at around
4:30 and found the massive in motion after parking way way waaaay up
Bonny Doon Rd.  I thought the vibe was much improved over the September
FMR, although still not all that great.  But there was much more dancing
and less nitrous and alcohol (and what there was of the latter was low
key and in good spirits).  If I were to quarrel about one thing, it's the
typical way the FMR crew sets up the sound.  Outdoor sound has some
characteristics that must be respected.  Although small, the system put
out quite a lot of oomph.  In the normal "sweet spot" (in the center in
front of the speakers, where you get the stereo image) it was just
simply too loud, and there was severe "combing" -- meaning you could
move just six inches and have the phase relationships change completely.
One solution is to spread the speakers out, maybe ten feet further from
the DJ table for each stack.  Another would be to create a 'dance floor'
by having four stacks pointing inwards, which would tend to concentrate
the crowd, *or* have four stacks tightly set around the DJ setup pointing
*outward* to help spread the crowd around and create four stereo images
to boot . . . just a thought, anyway.

The lineup was Garth, Markie, Jeno and Nickie.  I didn't think G., J. or
M. did anything exceptional, but they were steady with perhaps a nod to
Garth for taking a somewhat different approach.  Nickie (if I have the
name right) almost literally came directly off the plane from the UK
and played a nice mellow house/trance groove from about 11:30 to 1 pm
when things finally closed down.

Overall, an excellent time.  

I got a couple hour nap before we checked into the going-away party for
Liz of the YSH krewe.  Susie, Sean and others went off to Minna St. and
had a great time while I snoozed, overslept actually, to get ready for
a long Sunday run.  Initially I planned to make it to Funky Techno Tribe
but woke up late, at 5 am, so I went directly, instead, to the DNA one-
off afterparty.  Somewhat to my surprise and pleasure, since I missed FTT,
Tony was playing when I arrived at 7:30 (he wasn't listed on the flyer),
doing a decent if not great set for a sparse crowd, followed by Jeno who
got things moving a bit more.  Then I trucked over to Boogie Buffet, which
I haven't been to for a couple of months.  It was not overwhelming, just
exceedingly pleasant :)  This time, somewhat unusually, I spent little
time in the Buffet/Light/Slow room, and mostly jammed in the Boogie/Dark/Fast
room with a fine Rick Preston jam and a pumping set from none other than Jeno,
yet again, doing his third turn in about ten hours.  I had to look twice at
my plane ticket this morning to make sure I was on *R*eno Air :)

The Terence McKenna event had been heavily advertised -- I saw posters all
over town and flyers saturated Haight St. -- so I got there a little early
and discovered M Normal had already started her ambient set around 7:30
at the Great American Music Hall.  She ended up playing nearly two hours
until the next DJ arrived.  The crowd was restless and I was hungry, so
I ducked out to grab a bite, then decided to skip Terence (who I'm not
much interested in) and Robbie Hardkiss and check out two of the many other
events happening.  The brand-new Kilimanjaro event was happening at -- you
guessed it -- 1015 Folsom.  I'm a big fan of African and reggae, and they
had both, with the African/Caribbean sound in the "Boogie" space and 
dance hall in the basement.  I was disappointed with the turnout and the
DJs -- the upstairs was basically a salsa-oriented DJ who didn't understand
how to use the mixer (not in the sense of beat-matching, which is unknown
in that scene, but just in level-setting), and the downstairs was a not very
interesting selection of circa-1991 style dancehall as opposed to the new
techno-influenced stuff.  But I think the club has potential and of course
Ten Fifteen Folsom is a wondrous space under any circumstances.

Finally I checked in at the Trocadero.  It was set up nicely -- large
dayglo painted curtains, a fine Video Toaster driven light show, a good
woman DJ whose name I could not find out from anyone present, and I wasn't
about to interrupt her spinning to ask.  The odd thing is I was probably
one of ten paying customers in the place.  They were up against numerous
other events as well as the Castro block party and I just don't understand
the timing -- they must have lost a ton on space and equipment rental alone.
And the Troc is just not what it used to be.  There are some bass cabs on
the floor, but most of the sound is in some speaker decks hung around the
outside of the floor, leading to rather uneven and uninspiring sound overall
(though the blown-out distorted stuff reported previously seems to have
been fixed or replaced).  They were using the famed hanging tweeters as
hangers for party decorations, not audio :(  

The downstairs at Folsom has better sound now than the Troc.  (And it's 
really quite good -- we should have another sfraves party there I think . . .)

So now I'm back in the saddle in my office here in Portland.  Thanks to
everyone who made it such a great weekend.  The final note: several people
expressed considerable optimism about the scene.  The comment that 'the
energy is starting to come back' was heard from several quarters.  I don't
personally believe it ever *left*, but it's been scarce to find in recent
months as things have struggled through some kind of transition.  The old
style raves are gone gone gone, having mutated quickly into a commercial/
promoter approach which the scene has definitively rejected.  Big parties
are not out completely by any means, but they are certainly not the focus
they were even a year ago.  And the smaller parties are more diverse,
being put on in more places and bringing in a wider variety of music and
people.  

It sounds good to me!

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 14:31:16 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1993 14:30:51 -0800
Subject: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Status: 

At 02:36 PM 11/1/93 EST, Sean Casey wrote:
>the availability of records

This availability must be in all those special record stores for DJs that
I occasionally hear about but have never seen.  Where are they?

Most "record stores" don't even sell records anymore.

By the way, how long does a high-end
cartridge-and-stylus-that-costs-as-much-as-a-CD-player last, anyway?

I know that, at best, a stylus lasts until the first time it comes down
on anything that isn't a record, such as any part of the turntable.
I would think that the back-and-forth stresses that "scratching" impose 
would be pretty bad too.  Are any of them designed for that?


From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 15:21:45 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 15:21:37 PST
Subject: School choice: long, non-rave
Status: 

Please, let's not get into this again.  This really doesn't have a
place on this list and I can only assume you posted it because you
think that all ravers will support your position.  Let me assure you
many won't.


From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 15:42:42 1993
From: kxbehni@srv.PacBell.COM (Keyvan Behnia)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 15:42:37 PST
Subject: WANTED: Lounge Wizards
Status: 

Greetings.

I have been off the list for the last few months working on my Bar. It has been open since
Late August and we are finally getting our musical offerings sorted. The Bar is called Dalva
and is on 16th street between Valencia and Gurrero right next to the Roxie Theatre.

The main thing about Dalva is that the music is adventurous. First of all, there is Orpheus
our jukebox. It features latest releases ranging from Ultramarine, One Dove and MC Solar to Mathew Sweet,
Tindersticks and Lemonheads. 

As far as the current DJ line-up we have the folks from Message doing a Jazzbo thing on Tuesdays, 
I spin Vinyl 45`s on Wedensdays, Behind the Post Office will start FORTUNE this thursday and On Saturdays 
nights The Vibes Collective does a set bordering on anarchy under the title of Funk-Fu.

I would like us to have an ambient night and am looking for a good DJ. I envision music that would be 
an aperitif to a night out raving or substitue for a light adventure. There is no planned dancing at 
Dalva however there have been spontaneous bursts. But the emphasis needs to be on the music and my 
only requirement is that it be adventurous. Al the DJs at Dalva like the fact that they can play 
what they like without worrying about the dancefloor getting empty or a song being too new or slow.

So stop by, take a look at the place and say hello. I am usually there on Wed and Sat Nights.
or E-mail me with your questions, thoughts or ideas.


Keyvan

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 15:45:23 1993
From: jimt@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com (Jim S. Thompson)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 15:44:56 PST
Subject: Re: On Sale Now at the Shack!
Status: 

>> Hey everybody! I just made my dreaded spare parts trip to
>> Radio Shack and found that the Minimus 7 speakers are on
>> sale now ($29.99 each). 

> The metal ones are not shielded? This is a bad move on their part... The MTX
> , Ramsa and Bose are shielded for those who want to use them as multimedia
> monitors.


	I should think that the Minimus 7 speakers ARE shielded as they
	are in a metal box with a perf metal front screen.  This should
	act as a Faraday cage as far as EMI is concerned....

	Jim Thompson - CYBERIA

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 15:54:24 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 15:54:16 PST
Subject: School choice: long, non-rave
Status: 


seconded.  not to mention that I found some of the math quite strange
and most probably incorrect.  this is a good example of the stuff I
really don't like reading about here.  if I want to get involved in
discussions about this stuff, I can go to other mailing lists and
newsgroups.

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 15:56:17 1993
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 15:37:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: vote tommorrow-rave related!
Status: 

hiya i want to remind everyone that we are blessed with the right to vote
and tommorrow is election day and that i want to encourage all to remember
to go and vote!

now, here are some issue on the ballot that i feel are rave related and my
 humble opinion...

prop a--- this prop is a bond issue and the money is earmarked for somar!
as you all know this is where your sisters house now currently resides...i
think it is a lovey and important space and worth voting YES for to help
its preservation

prop n---this would make our city government review the city charter and
propose ideas for reorganization! i think this needs to be done...voting
yes might mean that permitting laws and that damm police code (ie cabaret
laws) be looked at too...

prop AA---i think everyone should take muni including city workers and
ravers...vote YES

prop BB---this poor police officer can't bring his dummy to work...i know
i would love to see a police officer at a renegade with a dummy telling
everyone to go home...vote yes so at least 1 one officer can have a sence
of humor and show that he is human/citizen.

state prop 174---this will be the demise of california's public education
system (both my parents are public school teachers) and uneducated people
means they don't have a good understanding of the humanities/arts and
their city and their world and this would be disasterous to raves...

these are just my opinions...but i wanted to show how this election will
have an impact on the "scene" and there is more to life than
raving...please don't make this a big thread, so send me private email if
you want to duke it out...(:(:

partyon...susie (:








From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 16:31:14 1993
From: Partyon <magskita@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 16:26:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: vote hehehehheheheh
Status: 

oh and for those of you who like to make pretty patterns in scantron
tests, one can also vote yes on A, E, X...partyon...susie(:
(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(: 



From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 17:03:12 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 93 17:03:06 -0800
Subject: Re: School choice: long, non-rave
Status: 




>seconded.  not to mention that I found some of the math quite strange
>and most probably incorrect.  this is a good example of the stuff I
>really don't like reading about here.  if I want to get involved in
>discussions about this stuff, I can go to other mailing lists and
>newsgroups.

>Bob

I absolutely agree. What is the point of that post in the first place 
to start an argument.

^^^^^^

In other news...

Come down to Greg's bar at Julian and Montgomery in San Jose tonite
for another Free Life. 
The music and company are good, and best of all it is Free :-) :-)
And you can park across the street in the arena parking lot. 




vivianm

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 17:14:26 1993
From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 20:12:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: On Sale Now at the Shack!
Status: 

Beyond the ultraworld of Jim S. Thompson:
> 
> > The metal ones are not shielded? This is a bad move on their part... The MTX
> > , Ramsa and Bose are shielded for those who want to use them as multimedia
> > monitors.
> 
> 	I should think that the Minimus 7 speakers ARE shielded as they
> 	are in a metal box with a perf metal front screen.  This should
> 	act as a Faraday cage as far as EMI is concerned....

Yes, but what metal? zinc? steel? aluminium? Aluminium alloys for example,
are good to shield RFI but not EMI. The magnets put out a magnetic field,
not radio interference so aluminium is no good.

I have a pair of "designer" speakers (they are two 8 inches balls, sliding on
small bases) which are quite crap (well they dont compare to Camber :P) but
are made of steel and so are shielded. I cant however use them as multimedia
speakers because my monitor is on an arm...

Ciao,
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...



From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 18:58:58 1993
From: DWATANAB@uci.edu (Dana Watanabe)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 18:58:33 PST
Subject: Re: School choice: long, non-rave
Status: 

>This really doesn't have a place on this list and

That could be argued, as it seemed one point of the post was about
segregation, and _IM_N_HO_ part of the "rave" scene/vibe/whatever
is about all people living together
dot dot dot a discussion of whether or not this bill would
create a segregated atmosphere is pertinent to me

>I can only assume you posted it because you think that all ravers will
>support your position.  

well... assumptions just.. :) no really.. dunno why it was posted
although i do appreciate the knowledge of the similar legislation
being sought elsewhere.. but ill take the blame for trying to get
my newsfeed of life from sfraves

>Let me assure you many won't.

Although i thought that as Bob said.. some of the stuff was just plain silly
i agree with the idea of it
and as there actually isnt a alt.stupid.argument.over.prop174
it would be nice to hear some arguements against it off sfraves

i should just reply this to certain people, but i do have a question
that might be list worthy (or not)

is the person who posts the original post to blame for the flame war
or all the people who reply to the list?

right now, i might say that the original person is just providing
a topic for discussion that everyone can go adn reply agreeing
or disagreeing with them
especially in this case where the person indicated that it was
not rave related so one could just ignore it if they dont care

like always.. just random thoughts

 ,
dana

"Orange County? That's Orwellian. Like Hitler with sunshine."

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 19:53:37 1993
From: Sean Finn <finns@smtplink.NGC.COM>
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 93 19:52:29 PST
Subject: quality of SFR postings ...
Status: 

> especially in this case where the person indicated that it was
> not rave related so one could just ignore it if they dont care

I've been lurking on this list for several weeks, and have found some gems of 
info here. I have also found a high "noise" quotient, and frequently assess 
whether it's worth the effort to wade thru the debris, or to unsubscribe. 
I would not like to give up this (potential) resource, but there is a point at 
which "ignoring it" may be applied to the list as a whole. (great empathy for 
those of you paying for connection time. Even tho I'm not in that category at 
the moment, I am still paying with my time.) 

Please, send all of the non-pertinent to "alt.somewhere.else".

thanx -- Sean (hoping to keep an enriching resource)


> "Orange County? That's Orwellian. Like Hitler with sunshine."

yikes.  ;-)


From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 20:27:13 1993
From: red@net.bio.net (Ben Wing)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 20:26:59 -0800
Subject: River Phoenix died ...
Status: 

Not exactly rave related, but I heard yesterday evening that River
Phoenix died.  He was only 23 ...

The NY Times didn't say what the cause of death was, but I heard
elsewhere that it was a heroin OD.

ben 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Nov  1 22:02:38 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 00:01:31 -0600
Subject: test
Status: 


This is a test ignore (NeXT mail sucks, it breakz too easy ;)

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 08:18:17 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 2 Nov 1993 08:28:19 -0800
Subject: DJ on KZSU
Status: 

                       Subject:                               Time:8:04
  OFFICE MEMO          DJ on KZSU                             Date:11/2/93
Heyyyyy!

     I heard a rumor that DJ Tamotsu is going to be spinning on KZSU from noon
to 3:00pm today!  Well, actually I can say that the rumor is true because it's
actually me 8*).  I am really exited to be playing London/Jamica.  I have some
new material and I would appreciate the support.  I know I won't be able to
tell if anyone is listening or not but I thought I would just inform those of
you close to a radio from noon to 3.
SLAMMM!
Keep it Alive and Thrive            T. Scot 



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 09:17:06 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 10:17:55 -0800
Subject: mdma+fluoxetine (PROZAC)
Status: 

thought some of you would like to see this.  i wonder if anyone has  
collected similar data for any of the SSRIs (selective seratonin reuptake  
inhibitors) other than fluoxetine, e.g. sertraline (ZOLOFT).
-----

From: lamontg@cs.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist)
Date: 25 Oct 93 20:51:33 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Medline info on drug-drug interactions

----------------------------------------------------------------------
On drug-drug interactions:

               Accession Number: 93000357.    Citation: 2 of 4

Author:       Strassman-R-J.
~Title:       Human hallucinogen interactions with drugs affecting
              serotonergic neurotransmission.
Source:       Neuropsychopharmacology.  1992 Nov.  7(3).  P 241-3.
Abstract:     The absence of relevant human research studies of
              hallucinogenic drugs has not curtailed their unsupervised
              use.  Two cases are presented that suggest decreased
              sensitivity to the serotonergic hallucinogens psilocybin and
              LSD induced by drugs with effects on serotonergic
              neurotransmission, allopurinol and fluoxetine.  These reports
              suggest that hallucinogens' effects in humans are mediated by
              serotonergic receptors.

              Accession Number: 92272338.    Citation: 3 of 4

Author:       Picker-W.  Lerman-A.  Hajal-F.
~Title:       Potential interaction of LSD and fluoxetine [letter]
Source:       Am-J-Psychiatry.  1992 Jun.  149(6).  P 843-4.

              Accession Number: 93359556.    Citation: 1 of 45

Author:       McCann-U-D.  Ricaurte-G-A.
~Title:       Reinforcing subjective effects of (+/-)
              3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine ("ecstasy") may be
              separable from its neurotoxic actions: clinical evidence.
Source:       J-Clin-Psychopharmacol.  1993 Jun.  13(3).  P 214-7.
Abstract:     (+/-)3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), a synthetic
              amphetamine derivative used recreationally by humans, damages
              brain serotonin neurons in experimental animals.  In
              preclinical studies, serotonin reuptake inhibitors block
              MDMA-induced serotonin release; they also block MDMA
              neurotoxicity.  Whether serotonin reuptake inhibitors also
              block MDMA's psychoactive effects in humans has not been
              established.  Reported herein are four individuals who
              describe their experiences after ingesting fluoxetine, a
              potent and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, before
              MDMA ingestion.  Their reports indicate that fluoxetine does
              not block MDMA's reinforcing subjective effects and raise the
              possibility that MDMA's psychoactive effects may be separable
              from its neurotoxic actions.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 09:47:43 1993
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 09:49:34 -0800
Subject: Non-neurotoxic epathogens/enactogens
Status: 

This is one of the reason that research needs to be supported,not suppressed.
Thanks for posting your refs,Bob.
-Chris.

-
Chris Beaumont                    nutrient cafe wholesale
ccat@netcom.com                  MIME mail graciously accepted
ccat@casa.stanford.edu           public key available via finger



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 09:54:00 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 09:56:24 -0800
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

At  3:21 PM 11/1/93 -0800, Sue Raisty wrote:
>Please, let's not get into this again.  This really doesn't have a
>place on this list and I can only assume you posted it because you
>think that all ravers will support your position.  Let me assure you
>many won't.

Gawd, here we go again. Sorry, politics doesn't stay off this list for
long. The only time discussions get boring is when everyone *does* agree.
"Don't post anything on this list that _I_ don't like" (that isn't directed
at you, Sue, just at the list in general.) What does have a place on this
list? 

recent sampling:

        FW: levitate the s.f. stock exchange oct. 29
        Ultraviolet Catastrophe
        A Faschist [sic] supervisor needs more hair gel

You tell me.

And besides- it was flagged 'non-rave'. Most people do that when something
like this comes up. Don't like it? put that phrase in a kill-file. Easy.

Back on topic, Let's not step on eachother's politics, OK? I'll bet money
that I don't agree with 98% of the list on 98% of the issues on the plate
this month. So? Should I post vehement tirades to that effect? I only do so
about once a month :). Please, folks, just because you don't agree doesn't
mean you are special. And stepping on other people to keep your ears clean
just isn't OK. I know (witness now for instance) I can tend towards the
same, but we all have to try.

Boy, diplomatic for the fourth time so far in this morning. Someone put
something in my coffee.
:)

Other string- anyone see the Moby quotes in _AXESS_ (that new magazine that
is a cross between all the WIRED ripoffs and Rolling Stone)? Said 'Rock'
(whatever that is) has been dead for 20 years. Thought only painters, Jazz
musicians and 70's punks got away with that :)

jamie

"Duh...  Maybe  the  fact  that he  chants  Mantras for 6  hours  a  day  has 
something to do with his inability to get a date."               - Bryna Bank
_____________________________________________________________________________
jamie lawrence                                             jamiel@sybase.com



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 10:56:26 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 10:48:19 PST
Subject: Re: River Phoenix died ...
Status: 

Paramedic at scene said classic cocaine od evidence.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 11:35:17 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 11:34:58 PST
Subject: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

--> And besides- it was flagged 'non-rave'. Most people do that when
--> something like this comes up. Don't like it? put that phrase in a
--> kill-file. Easy.

Dude, it isn't that easy.  I'm not sure what mailer you use that uses
kill-file, but mh and RMAIL (which I use) do not.  So please have a
little consideration out there!  These inappropriate messages get
mixed in with the rest of my mail, making it harder to find the
important stuff (such as letters from my boss).  

If I wanted to get political updates I would subscribe to an
appropriate list.  I do not want to sift through the stuff - PLEASE
don't send it.

I know some people on this list have a lot of time to read all the
mail and like to get the extra info on politics etc... But please,
just subscribe to an appropriate list on those topics or better yet,
read a newspaper or a newsgroup.  Some of us can't deal with the mail
volume - I have a job to do.n

And I'm really sorry for taking up bandwith here.  I just hope that
this message trims down the inappropriate topics here.  And it can be
done.  When I was on ne-raves last April-August or so, people decided
what are appropriate topics to the list and PEOPLE STUCK TO IT.  I
don't know why we can't do that here.

Sue



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 11:35:39 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 11:35:06 PST
Subject: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

--> And besides- it was flagged 'non-rave'. Most people do that when
--> something like this comes up. Don't like it? put that phrase in a
--> kill-file. Easy.

Dude, it isn't that easy.  I'm not sure what mailer you use that uses
kill-file, but mh and RMAIL (which I use) do not.  So please have a
little consideration out there!  These inappropriate messages get
mixed in with the rest of my mail, making it harder to find the
important stuff (such as letters from my boss).  

If I wanted to get political updates I would subscribe to an
appropriate list.  I do not want to sift through the stuff - PLEASE
don't send it.

I know some people on this list have a lot of time to read all the
mail and like to get the extra info on politics etc... But please,
just subscribe to an appropriate list on those topics or better yet,
read a newspaper or a newsgroup.  Some of us can't deal with the mail
volume - I have a job to do.n

And I'm really sorry for taking up bandwith here.  I just hope that
this message trims down the inappropriate topics here.  And it can be
done.  When I was on ne-raves last April-August or so, people decided
what are appropriate topics to the list and PEOPLE STUCK TO IT.  I
don't know why we can't do that here.

Sue



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 11:51:34 1993
From: Online Tsar <jonathan@wired.com> (Jonathan Steuer)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 11:35:55 -0800
Subject: online internship at Wired
Status: 

Hi folks-

I know this isn't directly rave-related, but this position seemed like
something that might be of interest to the kind of folks in the SFR
tribe...

Whoever we hire will be working closely with me and the rest of the online
staff at Wired in trying to expand Wired's online offerings. We need help
as soon as possible, and the position requires coming in to the Wired
offices (in San Francisco), so Bay Area residents will likely have an
advantage over those of you reading this elsewhere.

I'll be completely upfront about on thing: the starting pay is lousy.
However, most successful interns at Wired manage to negotiate real
contracts for less-appalling wages within a couple of months.

Please direct replies and inquiries to online@wired.com, since I'm no
longer on the main SFR list. 

Thanks-

-jonathan-

****************************************************************************

                          WANTED: TEXT NERD

Wired is looking for a motivated individual to help us with our online
offerings. The 30-hr. per week internship position, commencing immediately,
includes the following responsibilities:

  o formatting text of back-issues of our magazine for distribution
    via the Internet and other online means

  o assisting in the maintenance / innkeeping of Wired areas on online
    services including alt.wired, America Online, Mindvox, and the WELL

You should be familiar with the Macintosh and with at least one
standard Mac word processing program (Word, MacWrite Pro, Nisus), and 
should also have some experience with electronic communication (email,
BBS's, mailing lists, Internet tools, etc. -- if you're reading this
online, you're probably qualified). Experience with Quark XPress and
more detailed net.knowledge are big plusses, but are not required.

Most important, you should be willing to work for not very much money
in what's most likely the best work environment you've ever imagined, and you
should be ready to absorb a lot of knowledge about online systems and how they
work. 

For more information, send email to:

   online@wired.com

with a brief but relevant ASCII resume and cover letter.
(Please: no phone calls,  snail-mail, or carrier pigeons)


Thanks!


    Will Kreth                          Jonathan Steuer
  Online Director                      Online Development

                          Wired
                     online@wired.com





***********************************************************
                   jonathan steuer
                     online tsar                                          
           absolute power corrupts absolutely
   wired magazine    415.904.6457   jonathan@wired.com





From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 12:04:25 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 11:59:00 PST
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

> 
> Dude, it isn't that easy.  I'm not sure what mailer you use that uses
> kill-file, but mh and RMAIL (which I use) do not.  So please have a
> little consideration out there!  These inappropriate messages get
> mixed in with the rest of my mail, making it harder to find the
> important stuff (such as letters from my boss). 

What is appropriate depends on who's listening, where are these people when
people start going on about nitrous or some other thing that I think
is asenine, But just let someone try to encourage people to take a stand
for something and all of a sudden people don't want to hear it.

 
> 
> If I wanted to get political updates I would subscribe to an
> appropriate list.  I do not want to sift through the stuff - PLEASE
> don't send it.
> 

I'm sorry but raving by it's very nature is political, when we have a renegade
we sometimes operate on the edge of the law, some say that we are just
exercising our right to peaceable assembly, remember the constitution?  That's
a pice of paper that enables you to disagree with the majority and live to
tell the tale,  it's the thing that alows raves to happen with out us all
thrown in jail or worse.  Unfortunately ignoring situations or
"just sending light" won't always be enough.



> I know some people on this list have a lot of time to read all the
> mail and like to get the extra info on politics etc... But please,
> just subscribe to an appropriate list on those topics or better yet,
> read a newspaper or a newsgroup.  Some of us can't deal with the mail
> volume - I have a job to do.n

Maybe you should unsubscribe, we all have jobs to do here, if you don't
want to read, hit d.


> 
> And I'm really sorry for taking up bandwith here.  I just hope that
> this message trims down the inappropriate topics here.  And it can be
> done.  When I was on ne-raves last April-August or so, people decided
> what are appropriate topics to the list and PEOPLE STUCK TO IT.  I
> don't know why we can't do that here.
> 
> Sue

We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.



			G
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNex Information Services Inc.  Voice:(415)473-3060   Fax: (415)473-3062
Director of Network Operations				geoffw@internex.net

 The opinions expressed are my own and are not necessarily those of InterNex

        "They can stop an individual, but they can't stop a movement"

		--PGP Public key available upon request--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 12:09:54 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 12:12:07 -0800
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

At 11:59 AM 11/2/93 -0800, Geoff White wrote:

>We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.

Having moved here in January, I would just like to resoundingly say 

OH GOD YES!

And I don't think that is a bad thing. Putting annoying california things
in one basket and cool cali things in another, it works out quite a bit
better than it did livin' back east. Just thought I'd throw that out.

>                        G


jamie

"Duh...  Maybe  the  fact  that he  chants  Mantras for 6  hours  a  day  has 
something to do with his inability to get a date."               - Bryna Bank
_____________________________________________________________________________
jamie lawrence                                             jamiel@sybase.com



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 12:10:43 1993
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@squick.eit.COM>
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1993 12:09:48 -0800
Subject: FYI -- Adam Curry (MTV) program "RAVE" mentioned on mtv.com
Status: 


I randomly came across this while browsing around in the world wide
web. MTV has a WWW and FTP/Gopher site mtv.com, and I found this in the
middle of browsing the following WWW URL
http://mtv.com/aboutus/aboutadam.html

| ...
| The other program will start airing fall 1993, entitled 
| RAVE, Adam goes to underground Rave-Parties in 12 separate
| major European cities. RAVE is music intensive,
| highlighting house and techno music. 
| ...

Perhaps you might want to give Adam some pointers to local SF Rave footage.
Or invite him to an upcoming event...

| Comments and suggestions are always welcome, please send
| them to me at: adam@mtv.com

--------------------
http://mtv.com/aboutus/aboutmtv.html

| What is mtv.com?
| 
| Good question...it's been asked alot lately. 
| 
| First of all, this site is NOT sponsored in anyway by 
| MTV Networks, although they ARE aware of my endeavours
| and support it. 
| 
| My name is Adam Curry, I have been an on-air talent (VJ)
| with MTV for the past 6 years. I've been living a second
| life in cyberspace for about the same period of time,
| and have taken it upon myself to put this site on-line,
| with all expenses coming out of my own pocket. Don't
| feel bad, I make enough at my "real" job. 
| 
| This site will always remain free to the internet
| community, something that might not be the case would
| MTV be running it themselves I'm afraid, but that's
| their business. 
| 
| Anyway, to make a long story short, this is my hobby,
| and you get what you pay for when you connect to this
| server. Within the next couple of weeks/months you
| should see alot of cool stuff coming online here,
| including video and audio stuff that will absolutely
| blow you away! 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=		       Niels Mayer -- mayer@eit.com                         =
=	     MultiMedia Engineering Collaborative Environment               =
= Enterprise Integration Technologies, 459 Hamilton Ave, Palo Alto CA 94301 =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 12:19:39 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 10:54:44 PST
Subject: Re: FMR success story #545
Status: 

What was that song at the FMR that I think Garth played that had that
"I want my planet back" part in it.  Great song.  Tripped my head.  It
sounded like an angry god pushed to the limit, although I think a female
voice would have been better for that but I also fantasized as it was
playing that it was an immortal alien real estate developer that was
pissed that life had evolved on his property since the last time he'd
been here. |-)

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 12:57:17 1993
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Date: 02 Nov 1993 12:56:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Topanga canyon fire
Status: 

I'm in El Segundo, which is by LAX, and you can see a HUGE cloud of smoke
  up over the Malibu area.  Looks like it's started again... I'm talking
  Mt. St. Helens-esque; way up into the stratosphere.  Know anyone coming
  up on a flight? They'll probably be 1/2 hour late, cause the planes will
  have to go around the area instead of over it....

If you're in LA, take a look out the window. You won't believe it.



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 13:38:02 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 13:37:43 -0800
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

	For the record, extraneous conversation has always been a
hallmark of sfraves :) It's been a lot worse than a simple post here
and there, and I have stepped in a couple of times and asked people to
quit, but overall our prolixity is a virtue.  It shows we care about
more than just what last weekend's best party was or how slammin
Groove Kitchen is, etc.  I also think us old-timers have mastered the
ability of the d key when we see something we`re not interested in.  I
didn't mind the levitate the stock exchange or the school choice
things, because both are sorta relevant to SF and the latter is
definitely relevant to our future (kudos, Susie, for a wonderful SF
politics is rave politics post! :)

	Keep those letters coming.

	Brian



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 13:53:08 1993
From: Thomas Christopher Cuellar <chris@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 13:51:08
Subject: help!
Status: 

Hey! I know this is non rave related, but does anybody know the names of
computer clusters at UCLA I can finger? I'm desperately seeking some old
pals of mine, so sorry if I've inconvenience anybody here...also, does
anyone know how to finger Apple Computer?  Thanks!!!


From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 14:14:39 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:14:24 -0800
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

On Nov 2, 11:34am, you proclaimed:
} --> And besides- it was flagged 'non-rave'. Most people do that when
} --> something like this comes up. Don't like it? put that phrase in a
} --> kill-file. Easy.
} 
} Dude, it isn't that easy.  I'm not sure what mailer you use that uses
} kill-file, but mh and RMAIL (which I use) do not.  So please have a
} little consideration out there!  These inappropriate messages get
} mixed in with the rest of my mail, making it harder to find the
} important stuff (such as letters from my boss).  

I'm pretty sure mh does, but I don't use it so I'm not sure (I was told
I should switch to it because it had it).  If your site has ELM compiled
it probably also has "filter", which can be run outside of elm, and
can filter your email into smaller mailboxes.  I can send you a sample
 .filter file, or try the man page.

However, your point is correct, you shouldn't have to use any sort of
filter here.

} When I was on ne-raves last April-August or so, people decided
} what are appropriate topics to the list and PEOPLE STUCK TO IT.  I 
} don't know why we can't do that here. 

Thats not my recollection, and I've been on ne-raves from day one.
Most recently there was a flame war about Barney which brought
techno.stanford to its knees :) I think it's inherent in rave mailing
lists to go off the topic every now and then, and if people can tie it
back in, brilliant, and if it spirals out of hand, kill it.  I can't
remember the last time the wuarchive FTP mailing list had a flame
war about Barney!

	Brian



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 14:28:43 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:28:36 -0800
Subject: breeding techno dogs or something (was politics)
Status: 

Geoff White comments:

>We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.

I feel the need to say that statements like this upset me and
make me feel inferior (I currently live on the East Coast).

A number of you are ex-east-coasters.  Your work/school/personal 
life may be better in California than it was back East, and you might 
even prefer the scene in San Francisco to anything you might have 
experienced back East, but truth be told we're not any different 
"breed."  We are human beings who rave and who exist under different 
envrionmental conditions than you all, but we're still involved in 
netting and raving for the same fundamental reasons you all are:  we 
seek fun, information, community, friendship, peace, love, and happiness.

Comments like the above don't really serve to perpetuate the idea
of "unity."  It's one thing to say "well, Sue, they do things 
differently out east -- after all they are a younger crowd and are
much more geographically spread out" and yet another to imply that we
are fundamentally different to you by saying we are a different
breed.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 15:02:57 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:58:05 PST
Subject: Re: breeding techno dogs or something (was politics)
Status: 

> Geoff White comments:
> 
> >We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.
> 
> I feel the need to say that statements like this upset me and
> make me feel inferior (I currently live on the East Coast).

Laura I love you, the statement was not to imply that east coasters
are in anyway inferior, I lived on the east coast for 32 years, but I must
stick by my original statement, that is why I moved out here, I got tired
of being "different" and a "kook", out here I just like everyone else
(All the fruits and nuts slide to the left side of the country :)
> 
> A number of you are ex-east-coasters.  Your work/school/personal 
> life may be better in California than it was back East, and you might 
> even prefer the scene in San Francisco to anything you might have 
> experienced back East, but truth be told we're not any different 
> "breed."  We are human beings who rave and who exist under different 
> envrionmental conditions than you all, but we're still involved in 
> netting and raving for the same fundamental reasons you all are:  we 
> seek fun, information, community, friendship, peace, love, and happiness.

Yes but I got tired of being followed when I go into a store in Boston because
I was black, (the only city that I have ever been called a nigger while having
a beer bottle thrown at me).  Tired of not having cabs stop.  Tired of living
in fear because homicide is an epidemic in Baltimore where 90% of the crime
is black on black, tired of rude service station attendants, tired of having
to put on armor and carrying switch-blades or a nine in order to feel safe
while walking through the streets of Brooklyn.  I can't speak about
So Cal cuz I don't live there maybe it is as bad or worse then the east coast
(at least they don't have sub zero temperatures in the winter) but I must
say that yes we are a different breed, especially the people who emigrated here
from the east coast, most of my family is still back there putting up with all
of that.  When I left NYC when I was 14 I was sad, I though New York
was the greatest place on earth, now you couldn't PAY me to live there for 6
months.


> 
> Comments like the above don't really serve to perpetuate the idea
> of "unity."  It's one thing to say "well, Sue, they do things 
> differently out east -- after all they are a younger crowd and are
> much more geographically spread out" and yet another to imply that we
> are fundamentally different to you by saying we are a different
> breed.
> 
> Laura
> 


I know this will start some people howling but when you come out here and
live here a while, you'll understand.



			G

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 15:12:19 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 15:12:07 PST
Subject: Re:  breeding techno dogs or something (was politics)
Status: 


> >We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.

> but truth be told we're not any different "breed."

Well, maybe "breed" isn't eactly accurate, but there are some definite
differences in the two scenes --

1) SF has silicon valley, which means that there are more over-21 intellectual
   types in the SF rave scene than there are in the East Coast.

2) SF is the LSD capital of the US.  The price is lower here, and quality and 
   availablity are higher.  The result is that the music in SF is more
   psychedelic, and you find more hippie/deadheads at raves in SF than you
   do on the East Coast.



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 15:12:40 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 15:12:27 -0800
Subject: Re: help!
Status: 

On Nov 2,  1:51pm, Chris proclaimed:
} Hey! I know this is non rave related, but does anybody know the names of
} computer clusters at UCLA I can finger? I'm desperately seeking some old
} pals of mine, so sorry if I've inconvenience anybody here...also, does
} anyone know how to finger Apple Computer?  Thanks!!!

Sheesh, talk about net.hemorrage.  Okay, guys, don't take my defense of
frivolous threads THAT seriously (you were joking, right Chris?).   Hmm..
I have it here somewhere.... ah yes:


------> SFR.karma.points.gz <------
>From SFRaves-request@techno.Stanford.EDU Thu Jul 22 13:27:18 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: repeat messages? (fwd)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFRaves)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:34:53 PDT
>
>This is just ridiculous Brian.  People send out mail to the sfraves list for
>the most incredibly stupid things.  A typical RFC822 mail header is about
>12-15 lines long.  I see people send out messages with bodies that are 3-4
>lines long.  It's totally ridiculous.  I just can't deal with it anymore.  I
>know I sound uptight, but I already deal with enough naive users as it is
>without having to deal with anymore.
>
>*I* don't send out meaningless flames everytime I something I marginally 
>disagree with.  Neither do I send out mail correcting every little flaw I see.
>I don't understand why I should ever need to see more than 1-2 messages a
>day from people.
>

OK, in response to this I'm proposing the "SFR Karma System" (SFRKS),
in which you can gain SFR Karma points for free luv-phaser recharges.

Here how it works:

points  
+10     positive post, about a relevant topic
+5      honest, open-minded rave reviews
+3      useful rave-related information
+1      good posts on a topic somewhat related to raves

-10     personal flame, on an undeserving target
-5      personal flame, on a deserving target
+1      good-natured, humorous flame, on a deserving target

-1      completely unnecessary posting - redundant information,
                irrelevant to raves, posting that should be on private mail...
-3      subscribe/unsubscribe postings to the entire list
-5      "Your music sucks" posts
0       honest mistakes

SFR Karma points can be redeemed at any time for luv-phaser energy.
Negative points require you to smile at 100 people for each point.

:)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 o derek chung  o  oracle graphics  o  dhchung@us.oracle.com  o 415.506.6195 o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 15:27:14 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 15:13:56 PST
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

>can tie it
back in, brilliant, and if it spirals out of hand, kill it.  I can't
remember the last time the wuarchive FTP mailing list had a flame
war about Barney!
______________________________________________________________________

He's a big purple jurrasic dork!  And I dare anyone to say otherwise!

-Mark



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 15:31:05 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:30:58 -0700 (MST)
Subject: breeding techno dogs or something (was politics)
Status: 

Geoff White comments:

>We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.

Laura La Gassa comments:

> I feel the need to say that statements like this upset me and
> make me feel inferior (I currently live on the East Coast).

These statements upset me as well, since I think it is a well established fact
that Utah raves and ravers are the best on the planet.

(ample :-) thrown in for good measure)

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 15:35:50 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1993 15:35:24 -0800
Subject: This is home
Status: 

At 12:12 PM 11/2/93 -0800, Healthier, More Manageable Hair wrote:
>At 11:59 AM 11/2/93 -0800, Geoff White wrote:
>
>>We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.
>
>Having moved here in January, I would just like to resoundingly say 
>
>OH GOD YES!
>
>And I don't think that is a bad thing. Putting annoying california things
>in one basket and cool cali things in another, it works out quite a bit
>better than it did livin' back east. Just thought I'd throw that out.

Having moved here a year and a half ago...

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

I lived in New England all my life until then, though for the last 5-6
years I lived there I was coming out to SF every chance I got, and it
felt more like home than (my old) home ever did.  It still does!


From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 16:04:07 1993
From: Adam Sah <asah@ginsberg.CS.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 16:04:38 -0800
Subject: Re: breeding techno dogs or something (was politics) 
Status: 

> Geoff White comments:
> >We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.
>
> I feel the need to say that statements like this upset me and
> make me feel inferior (I currently live on the East Coast).
> 
> A number of you are ex-east-coasters.  Your work/school/personal 
> life may be better in California than it was back East, and you might 
> even prefer the scene in San Francisco to anything you might have 
> experienced back East, but truth be told we're not any different 
> "breed."  We are human beings who rave and who exist under different 
> envrionmental conditions than you all, but we're still involved in 
> netting and raving for the same fundamental reasons you all are:  we 
> seek fun, information, community, friendship, peace, love, and happiness.
> 
> Comments like the above don't really serve to perpetuate the idea
> of "unity."  It's one thing to say "well, Sue, they do things 
> differently out east -- after all they are a younger crowd and are
> much more geographically spread out" and yet another to imply that we
> are fundamentally different to you by saying we are a different
> breed.
> 
> Laura

I agree with you in principle, but as a classic "displaced New Yorker" of
  about a year now, I can honestly say that in practice, what you are
  saying is just not true:
  - the vibe out here is safer - meaning that people are reasonably friendly,
    and you can expend energy dancing and talking and... instead of keeping
    your guard up all the time.  At the FMR on Friday, people like Brian
    were actually making an attempt to look out for the safety of their
    fellow human...

  - people seem to be a lot cooler about money - I don't feel ripped off
    when I donate to help out something, and neither does anyone else, it
    seems.  Likewise, non-money goods are shared much more freely out here, 
    especially food and drink.

  - the weather is nicer.  This means that crashing outdoors in the middle
    of goddess-knows-where is doable (minus bears)- not something I would
    try in NY.  More fragile items can be left outdoors... there's even a
    building here on campus where there's no doors separating its "insides"
    from its "outside" - in NY, that would mean snow gets in all of the
    classrooms and heating would be expensive... I really think that this
    leads people to spend more time outdoors, leave things outside that
    would be destroyed by wind, (more) rain, snow, and extreme temperatures
    in other places - all of which (imho) leads people to be a little bit more
    aware of the environment we live in.  I'm not sure - but it also might
    mean that people are (somewhat) less apt to destroying any property
    they get near, stealing anything that isn't bolted down... The thing
    with cleaning up the beach after the FMR and the negotiating with the cops.
    I really couldn't imagine that happening where I'm (originally) from.
    Also, the geography is more interesting and varied, which again smacks
    you in the face and makes it hard to ignore your existence as a creature
    on this planet...

I don't think of myself as a "changed person" in any great sense, but the
  culture I'm living in *is* vastly different, and my own sensitivities
  have changed.  Since coming out here, I've gone CAMPING!  HIKING!
  (things I barely had heard of)  Outdoor partying - a concept!  What I'm
  saying is that people are different, but things are, and that makes
  enough of a difference.

But you're right, unity is what counts - so more east coasters should come
  out and visit! (and #&^&* clean up after themselves :)

adam "I admit it... I...I... I'm from... New York..." sah


From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 16:14:09 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:16:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Karma!
Status: 

At  3:12 PM 11/2/93 -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote:

>Sheesh, talk about net.hemorrage.  Okay, guys, don't take my defense of
>frivolous threads THAT seriously (you were joking, right Chris?).   Hmm..
>I have it here somewhere.... ah yes:
>
>

>
>Here how it works:
>

>
>SFR Karma points can be redeemed at any time for luv-phaser energy.
>Negative points require you to smile at 100 people for each point.
>

Ohh... can we keep a counter and increment it and put it in our .sig?
*that* would be great.

>:)

:) :)
(thought I'd better put two there for good measure)

jamie

"Duh...  Maybe  the  fact  that he  chants  Mantras for 6  hours  a  day  has 
something to do with his inability to get a date."               - Bryna Bank
_____________________________________________________________________________
jamie lawrence                                             jamiel@sybase.com



From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 16:32:34 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 16:32:15 PST
Subject: I love the East Coast
Status: 

Well, since everyone seems to be telling me that sfraves is not for
rave related discussion, but for whatever the hell you want to blath
about:

--> > Laura sez:
--> > Geoff White comments: We are a different breed then our
--> >   east coast counterparts. I feel the need to say that
--> >   statements like this upset me and  make me feel inferior (I
--> >   currently live on the East Coast).

Geoff White sez:
--> Laura I love you, the statement was not to imply that east
--> coasters are in anyway inferior, I lived on the east coast for 32
--> years, but I must stick by my original statement, that is why I
--> moved out here, I got tired of being "different" and a "kook", out

	[lots of examples why the east coast sucks]

--> I know this will start some people howling but when you come out
--> here and live here a while, you'll understand.

For the record,
I LOVE THE EAST COAST and I want to move back there.  But I can't do
it yet lest I be labled as a job-hopper.

1) They have SEASONS there.  The trees actually turn purty colors in
the fall.  Purple and Red and Yellow and Orange. Its totally awesome.
The best that happens here is a few leaves are yellow.  They even have
wicked cool thunderstorms and snow!

2) They play HARDCORE.  (rave related comment)

3) They have awesome PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.  I lived in Boston for 5
years and did not need a car.  You can get anywhere on the subway or
busses. 

4) They have no CABARET LAWS. (rave related comment)

5) The PEOPLE.  Call East coasters unfriendly, but at least they
aren't fake.  I don't like the mindless chatter with the supermarket
clerk that I get out here.  In my experience, East coasters are less
concerned with appearances and material possessions than Californians.
When I moved here, I could not imagine that so much emphasis would be
put on the car you drive, the furniture you own, the expensive
expensive hobbies you participates in (seems like paragliding, sky
diving, skiing, scuba diving, hang gliding, and other way $$$ hobbies
are the hip thing here.)  

6) With the exception of NYC, its a CHEAPER!  Lower taxes, lower
prices.

7) They have serious ICE HOCKEY.  (If anyone can tell me where I can
buy a reasonably priced Boys Large hockey helmet inthe Bay Area, I'd
appreciate the tip), and not just pros - for everyone. 

8) You don't have to go very far (at least in new england) to get
out of the sprawling city and suburbs.  In California, every time I
try to go into the wilderness to be alone there are already a zillion
people there. 

9) The East Coast has more CHARACTER.  In California, all the streets
are in a grid; every corner has a shopping mall with 3 restaraunts, a
drug store and a beauty salon, complete with a zillion speed bumps,
stucco walls, and a quasi-mexican red clay roof.  *Boring*  

10) NO EARTHQUAKES

11) Better NY style pizza.

I'm also curious about what you said Geoff.  Do you really think the
crime situation is alot better in SF than in Boston?  I really didn't
get that impression.  I'm much more scared walking around in SF.  But
maybe I'm just ignorant.


Sue










From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 16:42:44 1993
From: howardb@enlil.premenos.sf.ca.us (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:39:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

> [regarding Barney]
> He's a big purple jurrasic dork!  And I dare anyone to say otherwise!
> 
> -Mark
> 
> 

Actually, B'harne is merely the projection into 3 dimensions of a
6-dimensional child devouring space-god.  He also goes by
Nyarlathotep.  :-)

Actually, I'm still glad we haven't had any Barney rave themes.  It would
totally exemplify the false E-induced saccharine sweetness some people
attribute to ravers.  (watch the show once if ya don't know what I
mean :-)

-H-





From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 17:09:06 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 17:04:11 PST
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 

> 1) They have SEASONS there.  The trees actually turn purty colors in
> the fall.  Purple and Red and Yellow and Orange. Its totally awesome.
> The best that happens here is a few leaves are yellow.  They even have
> wicked cool thunderstorms and snow!


We have seasons here, they are just subtle, you have to tune in more.
But yes I must give it to you, I do miss the thunderstorms.
> 
> 2) They play HARDCORE.  (rave related comment)

I miss some hardcore but I really like to trance and I have a hard time doing
that on HARDCORE unless I imbibe alot of chemicals.


> 
> 3) They have awesome PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.  I lived in Boston for 5
> years and did not need a car.  You can get anywhere on the subway or
> busses.

You can do that in the bay area as well, you just have to get to know the system.
I was without a car for 2 months and it didn't effect my rave activity.
 
> 
> 4) They have no CABARET LAWS. (rave related comment)


AMEN!

> 
> 5) The PEOPLE.  Call East coasters unfriendly, but at least they
> aren't fake.  I don't like the mindless chatter with the supermarket
> clerk that I get out here.  In my experience, East coasters are less
> concerned with appearances and material possessions than Californians.
> When I moved here, I could not imagine that so much emphasis would be
> put on the car you drive, the furniture you own, the expensive
> expensive hobbies you participates in (seems like paragliding, sky
> diving, skiing, scuba diving, hang gliding, and other way $$$ hobbies
> are the hip thing here.)

This is true east coasters are less concerned with material things but 
VERY concerned with weather you have the same though pattern as them :)

  
> 
> 6) With the exception of NYC, its a CHEAPER!  Lower taxes, lower
> prices.
> 
> 7) They have serious ICE HOCKEY.  (If anyone can tell me where I can
> buy a reasonably priced Boys Large hockey helmet inthe Bay Area, I'd
> appreciate the tip), and not just pros - for everyone. 
> 
> 8) You don't have to go very far (at least in new england) to get
> out of the sprawling city and suburbs.  In California, every time I
> try to go into the wilderness to be alone there are already a zillion
> people there. 

Mt Tam , point reyes, bonnie dune are all 1 hour away from sf by car.

> 
> 9) The East Coast has more CHARACTER.  In California, all the streets
> are in a grid; every corner has a shopping mall with 3 restaraunts, a
> drug store and a beauty salon, complete with a zillion speed bumps,
> stucco walls, and a quasi-mexican red clay roof.  *Boring* 

Yea and so are the traffic jams along downtown boston "cow paths" 
> 
> 10) NO EARTHQUAKES

yes but more people die in both places from homicide then from earthquakes.

> 
> 11) Better NY style pizza.

Try Volare's on lower haight before you claim this.

> 
> I'm also curious about what you said Geoff.  Do you really think the
> crime situation is alot better in SF than in Boston?  I really didn't
> get that impression.  I'm much more scared walking around in SF.  But
> maybe I'm just ignorant.

YES YES YES.  The complexion of the two areas is different which to some
creates the image of more crime (more dark people = more crime) but
the homicide rates for boston are higher than for SF.  Don't know about the
hold up rates.  I didn't live in fear in Boston either, but now Baltimore
and NYC that's another matter.
 

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 17:10:32 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 17:10:16 PST
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 


> Actually, I'm still glad we haven't had any Barney rave themes.  It would
> totally exemplify the false E-induced saccharine sweetness some people
> attribute to ravers.  (watch the show once if ya don't know what I
> mean :-)

BTW: watch out for the new UVC release, entitled "Trip with Barney, the Violet 
Rave-o-saurus".


From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 17:20:52 1993
From: rslau@ucs.usc.edu (Robert Lau)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 16:59:07 PST
Subject: Re: help!
Status: 

okay...

  JSLee, you are a stupid idiot and your mom swims out to troop ships.

-10     personal flame, on an undeserving target

  JSLee, your music sucks.

-5      "Your music sucks" posts

  And so does the color of your car.  BTW, your music sucks.

-1      completely unnecessary posting - redundant information,

  i can't stand JSLee's posts.  unsubscribe me now!

-3      subscribe/unsubscribe postings to the entire list

  Mrs. Gore, jeez, i can't remember her name, should be dragged to a YSH,
  maybe she'll lighten up about the parental advisory label stuff.

-5      personal flame, on a deserving target

wow.  -24.

that's 2400 smiles...

;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^)
;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^)
...

-robert

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 17:33:32 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1993 17:33:09 -0800
Subject: Re:  breeding techno dogs or something (was politics)
Status: 

At 03:12 PM 11/2/93 PST, Michael Wertheim wrote:
>> >We are a different breed then our east coast counterparts.
>> but truth be told we're not any different "breed."

There is a different breed, and many (though not all) of us come to SF
sooner or later.  The determining factor is not what coast you live on,
but what coast you WANT to live on (assuming you have experienced both).

Geographical impairment (wrong-coast syndrome) is cureable!

>2) SF is the LSD capital of the US.  The price is lower here, and quality and 
>   availablity are higher.  The result is that the music in SF is more
>   psychedelic, and you find more hippie/deadheads at raves in SF than you
>   do on the East Coast.

True, and, of course (since you bring it up), SF has the Grateful Dead!
I was going to Grateful Dead concerts for years before there were raves
and I still do, every chance I get.  The Dead and Deadheads have been
cultivating the Vibe for over a quarter-century.  I've been to 20
Grateful Dead concerts this year, and thoroughly enjoyed every one.
But where do we find the Vibe the rest of the time?  This Deadhead
is eternally grateful to you all for providing an answer!

(and that answer is yet another reason I'm really really glad I live
in the SF area now.  Boston seems to be a place where raves do not happen.
Grateful Dead concerts do, but only because they know that having the
Dead sell-out the Garden for a week is the best thing that happens to
their economy all year!)

The music is far more potent than LSD, although LSD certainly influences
the music.

                                &andy


From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 18:06:10 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 17:13:57 PST
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

Actually, I'm still glad we haven't had any Barney rave themes.  It would
totally exemplify the false E-induced saccharine sweetness some people
attribute to ravers.  (watch the show once if ya don't know what I
mean :-)

-H-
___________________________________________________________________________

Well, if one happens we can hire those 13 yr. olds who beat up Barney and
tried to tear his head off in front of horrified parents and small children
at a southwestern mall a couple of weeks ago.  Gotta love it.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 18:28:57 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1993 18:28:33 -0800
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 

>1) They have SEASONS there.  The trees actually turn purty colors in
>the fall.  Purple and Red and Yellow and Orange. Its totally awesome.
>The best that happens here is a few leaves are yellow.

I seem to always make it back to New England for the fall foliage,
probably always will.

>2) They play HARDCORE.  (rave related comment)

Are there any raves in the Boston area?  I never heard of any, but
maybe they were just too well hidden.  One doesn't hear of any on
the ne-raves mailing list either, though.
NYC has them, but it is a long way from Boston.

>4) They have no CABARET LAWS. (rave related comment)

True for NYC, but it always seemed like everything was being shut down
early in New England.  Early was never later than 2 AM, often 1 or earlier.

>5) The PEOPLE.  Call East coasters unfriendly

No, but the (in)famous New England "reserve" always seemed to make it
pretty difficult to get to know people.  This was always particularly
true in small towns.  It really bothered me when I lived there.

>paragliding, skydiving, skiing, scuba diving, hang gliding

Skiing is pretty big in New England too,
most of the others seem to be related to some desire to make-like-a-bird.

>7) They have serious ICE HOCKEY.

but we have the Guppies -- I mean Sharks  :^) :^)


From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 19:19:50 1993
From: John Hailu <SYJWH@NASAGISS.GISS.NASA.GOV>
Date:         Tue, 02 Nov 93 22:13:11 EST
Subject:      Subscription Attempt
Status: 

Sorry if this is the wrong list for this posting.
I've tried several other ways to add my name to the
SFRAVES distribution list with no success.
Acknowledge-To: <SYJWH@NASAGISS>

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 19:21:43 1993
From: DWATANAB@uci.edu (Dana Watanabe)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 19:21:36 PST
Subject: okay.. one more thing
Status: 

Arguing over politics is one thing

even arguing over whther or not it is pertinent to sfraves
is somewhat cool

arguing over whether house is better than hardocre is stupid
in my never humble opinion

but arguing over which is better, the west or east coast?
oh come now

im not saying dont do it...
because i use elm and its real easy to delete mail

but seriously now...
ASIDE from the fact that people are saying east coast
and i think there is A) a HUGE diff between the south, and new england
B) a huge diff in the south and new england between diff states/ areas
C) no relationship between SF, LA SD SB SLO or whatever saint or saintess
you want to talk about

i think its safe to say that its mostly a personal choice about 
where you like to live and if i LOVE LA, it has nothing to do with
Sue liking the east coast or Andy like SF

but i do think barney is like way cool man

 ,
dana

like always... just random thoughts

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 19:53:26 1993
From: hitman@citrus.SAC.CA.US ( Hedger Lee )
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 15:20:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: River Phoenix died ...
Status: 

> 
> Not exactly rave related, but I heard yesterday evening that River
> Phoenix died.  He was only 23 ...
> 
> The NY Times didn't say what the cause of death was, but I heard
> elsewhere that it was a heroin OD.
> 
> ben 
> 

i think it's either valium od or cocaine od

-[ h i t m a n ]-

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 20:26:50 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 20:26:40 -0800
Subject: EC vs. WC bickering
Status: 

Well, all this discussion on why one coast is great etc. is NOT what I 
had in mind.  I was meaning to focus on the RAVERS in each place, that even
though we did things a bit differently on our list (ne-raves) and at our
parties (they are smaller and have lots of different types of music:
from deep house to early electro to trance to breakbeat to hardcore --
all at the same event even!) we were NOT "a breed apart" but part of some 
overall family.  

And what a family ne-raves is.  Although I get frustrated to HELL
sometimes by the dynamics, I am overall very proud of what we have
become.  We've managed to overcome ranges in age from 14 to 36 or so,
distances stretching from Maine to Washington DC, "occupational" 
differences from being a junior high student to being a brain surgeon,
all so we can spend time together sharing the music, the dance, the
fun, and the companionship.  For example, an ne-raver whom many of you 
have met, Michael Minnich, threw a party that was basically  the equivalent 
of Bryce's Liquid Air events.  This was in Washington DC in June.
People on the list drove from BOSTON (8 hours) to be at it.

I have been to San Francisco twice, and have met many active members
of the SFRaves community, and so was appalled by the idea that 
San Francisco Ravers -- no matter where they were originally -- held
themselves to be "a breed apart" from the North Eastern ravers ("our
East Coast counterparts").  It's funny, but once I even talked to 
Brian about this, saying that there were major similarities on the
BASIC level of what's going on -- and he insisted you all were different,
too.  Well, I didn't buy it then, but I'm thinking now I was wrong.
I was hoping the mere fact that we have some collective definition
of "raver" that we all claimed to be (music loving, peaceful, loving,
open-minded) would be enough of a base for some sort of overall unity
to be identified, but maybe not.

I'm very sorry I dragged you all into this thread.  I know Geoff
and everyone means well.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 21:45:33 1993
From: howardb@enlil.premenos.sf.ca.us (Howard Berkey)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 21:39:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 

> 
> For the record,
> I LOVE THE EAST COAST and I want to move back there.  But I can't do
> it yet lest I be labled as a job-hopper.
> 

So become a contractor.  If you're qualified you'll make more anyway.


> 1) They have SEASONS there.  The trees actually turn purty colors in
> the fall.  Purple and Red and Yellow and Orange. Its totally awesome.
> The best that happens here is a few leaves are yellow.  They even have
> wicked cool thunderstorms and snow!
> 

I'm from Ohio and Oregon.  I've also lived for a few months in N.
Carolina.    After moving to California, I DONT miss:

Blizzards
sub-freezing winters
Rain
Rain
Rain
Cold 
Cold
Cold
extreme humidity
predatory insects
swamps
[etc...]


> 2) They play HARDCORE.  (rave related comment)
> 

Been there, done that.  Next?  :-)


> 3) They have awesome PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.  I lived in Boston for 5
> years and did not need a car.  You can get anywhere on the subway or
> busses. 
> 

I commuted 35 miles for 9 months to work on BART + buses.  Which is
clean and fast.

> 4) They have no CABARET LAWS. (rave related comment)
> 

Ya got me there.  :-)

> 5) The PEOPLE.  Call East coasters unfriendly, but at least they
> aren't fake.  I don't like the mindless chatter with the supermarket
> clerk that I get out here.  In my experience, East coasters are less
> concerned with appearances and material possessions than Californians.
> When I moved here, I could not imagine that so much emphasis would be
> put on the car you drive, the furniture you own, the expensive
> expensive hobbies you participates in (seems like paragliding, sky
> diving, skiing, scuba diving, hang gliding, and other way $$$ hobbies
> are the hip thing here.)  
> 

Heh.  You haven't even scratched the surface :-)  
General Aviation  costs me $90/hr to learn to fly.  (The FAA is kinda
understandably sticky :-)
Then again, I get to fly airplanes.  I guess I could blow more cash on
booze and drugs and hawdcoah, but life is what you make it, I guess.

P.S.  Skydiving and Scuba are fun too.

> 6) With the exception of NYC, its a CHEAPER!  Lower taxes, lower
> prices.

You get what you pay for.  (I know its a cliche, but the quality of
life here is better than anywhere else I've lived.  Really.)

> 
> 7) They have serious ICE HOCKEY.  (If anyone can tell me where I can
> buy a reasonably priced Boys Large hockey helmet inthe Bay Area, I'd
> appreciate the tip), and not just pros - for everyone. 
> 

What was that about expensive hobbies? :-)

(Actually, I miss hockey too.)


> 8) You don't have to go very far (at least in new england) to get
> out of the sprawling city and suburbs.  In California, every time I
> try to go into the wilderness to be alone there are already a zillion
> people there. 
> 

Mt. Diablo national park is less than a 1/2 hr. busride from where I
work.  Beat that in NYC.

> 9) The East Coast has more CHARACTER.  In California, all the streets
> are in a grid; every corner has a shopping mall with 3 restaraunts, a
> drug store and a beauty salon, complete with a zillion speed bumps,
> stucco walls, and a quasi-mexican red clay roof.  *Boring*  
> 

You don't get in the city much here, do you?

> 10) NO EARTHQUAKES
> 

No terrorist attacks here.


> 11) Better NY style pizza.
> 

Try:
John Henry's Pizza (the Haight)
Volare's pizza (the Haight)
North Beach Pizza [note:  more chicago style, but very good]
Cafe Coexistance [Portland, OR]
(got one in for Fred :-)

> I'm also curious about what you said Geoff.  Do you really think the
> crime situation is alot better in SF than in Boston?  I really didn't
> get that impression.  I'm much more scared walking around in SF.  But
> maybe I'm just ignorant.
> 
> 

Sue, you aren't ignorant, just unaccustomed to SF.  I have to say
there is MUCH more racism present on the right coast (yes, even taking
the Pacific NW into acct), and definantly murder rates are higher
there.  I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that rape and
assault are higher (rate-wise) there as well.  


All that said, I really like Boston and NYC for their own charm.  The
southern eastern seaboard is (in my experience) somewhat redeeming as
well.  I just prefer california.

-H-




From sfraves-owner  Tue Nov  2 23:53:07 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 23:39:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: EC vs. WC bickering
Status: 


	Now we got to the point!  We all got caught up in East vs. West
when we should have been talking about the ravers and our scenes.  
	I can see your points now Laura and I'm sure our scenes our very
similiar however at first I thought we were talking about the West vs East
lifestyles not ravestyles =)
	I sense the community across the US and even farther.  I almost
instantly trust the judgments, morals etc of a raver even if I don't know
them personally. 
	Can't we all just get along! =)  Such a great world it would be.

Peace,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 00:03:10 1993
From: susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU (Susan R. Kameny)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 00:00:28 PST
Subject: stupid test
Status: 

Please forgive me for my stupidity.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 00:37:52 1993
From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 0:38:33 PST
Subject: [POLL RESULTS] Daytime Liquid Air
Status: 

Thanks to all of you who responded to my poll concerning a daytime
liquid air.  The results are:

Yes, I would attend:	25
No, I wouldn't:		0

The ayes have it.  Because of the overwhelmingly positive response,
the Fluid Groove crew has decided to give it a whirl on Saturday,
November 20th, from 1-5 PM.  Curent DJ list includes Jon D. and
Lee An. As always, donations will be gratefully accepted for the
sound system (provided by Sound Vision), DJs and space. Please call
the info number below and the calendar as the date approaches.

Everyone who answered the poll: I expect to see you there with an SO
or friend...I'm making a list and checking it twice :) Thanks for all
your kind comments and suggestions: we really care what you think,
and are doing our best to make this *your* rave. Also, be sure to 
check out Chez Groove on Friday, November 12th, if you're in SF--
audio is also by Sound Vision, and DJs include Jon D., Lee, Tony,
Doran and Jamie. Rave hard, peace, and hope to see you at Come/Unity!
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@netcom.com-----
Sound surrounds you like Liquid Air --- Next Party 20Nov93 ---
415-487-8497 -- Audio by Sound Vision -- Flyer by Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 05:46:16 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 23:52:47 PST
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 

Well Sue, you've unleeshed my very biased, unfair, immature (but hey you
were first, right?) "Why California Is Better Than Everywhere Else List".

1) We have distinct seasons but liveable weather.  If we want snow or
intense thunder showers or colored leaves we can go to the Sierras but
we don't live in misserable weather - for the most part.

2) We play VARIETY.

3) San Francisco's BART is a model for other railway systems.  I often 
overhear pleasantly surprised east-coasters compairing it against what
they're used to.  As for transportation in general, some cities are cool,
some suck, regarless of what coast your on.

4) We can buy beer in any store on any day of the week.

5) ----I will not make a people comparparison parody to Sue's origional
VERY stereotyped, mean, bitter, untrue, banter about super market clerks (?)
and Californians and what not.  It tells a lot, though.  Even though, 
East Coasters are just as easy to make mean-spirited stereotypes of.

6)If you exclude our large metro areas, the east coast isn't cheaper.  The
sticks are the same everywhere.

7)You can play any sport that exists here.  I'm quite sure you can find
anything from ice hockey helmuts to hang-gliders, which I'm sure is a
great sport, like skiing (did I mention we have this realy cool mountain
range called the Sierras, where you can do some of the best skiing and
rock climbing and hiking in the world?  Oh ya, and that it skirts one of
the most fertile agricultural areas of the world?  And that there are
beatuful red wood forests on one end and our very own desert on the other?
And to the west, our own ocean coast with SANDY beaches, surfing, etc.?

8)Cali and the rest of the west coast has more wildernes and better things
to do in it (see above).  We have almost any kind of terra you need, man.
If you can't find it, I don't know what to say.

9)Cali and the west has hella-character.  That's why everyone else always
jealously talks shit (see Sue's origional post).  Again, I refuse to make
rude but easily done stereotypes about east coast architecture, city 
planning, and culture.  But, San Francisco is one of the most beautiful
big cities and we have plenty of charismatic towns such as Berkeley,
Santa Cruz, and others.

10)There are earthquackes on the east coast with the emminent possibility of
a "big one".  True, not as much as hear but we don't get hurricanes (and
remnents thereof) or tornadoes or all-around shitty cold-ass misserable
weather and we don't have to shovel snow.

11)New Yorkers are always talkin it up about what we can't get here like 
they can there and it's always B.S.  Were as much or more of a culural mecca.
We can get anything you can.  I've had better bagels here than I can find
in NY.  That's an open challenge.  It is also just as stupid as any other
food comparison because it all comes down to individual taste and fond
memories.  On the subject of food though, we have a thriving culinary
culture, complete with some of the very best (in the worlk) wine from our
very own Napa valley and beer from the thriving micro beer revolution,
which started here.  Oh and what goes better with the food than Northern
California's finest green bud - the best in the world, smoke on that one.

Oh ya, we have the best coffee in the world too - better than seattle, whoo
got the rep from media/publicity hype, but they're technicly on the west
coast too, right?

12)We started the computer revolution.

13)Although it's crumbling, we have one of the best University systems.

14)You name it we got it.  Were cool, you suck.  Isn't this fun.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 06:11:04 1993
From: Harry Duran <hduran@UMDNJ.EDU>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 09:08:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: EC-Technopoodles
Status: 

As one of the east coast people on the outer spectrum of our gaussian
raver distrubution I would like to contribute my own pair-a-lincolns to the
raging EC vs WC debate:

	I like the east coast and I love NEW YORK!!!!!
	I love the neravers that I have met and raved with
	I think that hardcore and trance, acid, and heavy house are Gods own
		music

	I think that the environment here is very different from SF and 
		spawns a certain adaptation in style...here I agree 
		wholeheartedly with Laura

	The concept that people are nicer/friendlier nastier/meaner here
		or there doesnt wash with me, personal styles may vary
		and the cultural vibe may differ but it is just as easy 
		to be a creep or a kewldewd in NYC, SF, Dallas, Miami
		or what have you because what you are to the outside world
		is what you are inside :)
			if you are sincere you will be perceived as sincere
			if you are a jerk your jerkiness will manifest

Bigotry hatred and cruelty are part of the human condition. I rave because I see
an incipient spirituality that I can relate to. The feeling of togetherness that I get while dancing with friends and complete strangers to mind blowing music
and the spontaneity of our net villages are what keep it meaningful for me.

THe emphasis should be on appreciating each others differences and celebrating our diversity rather than trying to one-up each other. 

Yes the east coast technopoodle may be a breed apart but we are all visitors in the same house when we rave. 

well thats enough from my little ultraworld
peace love and ecstacy

Harry; wazzup/techno-woofer



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 06:41:38 1993
From: Rockman <cmkoski@FLASH.LakeheadU.CA>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 09:35:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 



On Tue, 2 Nov 1993, Sue Raisty wrote:

> Well, since everyone seems to be telling me that sfraves is not for
> rave related discussion, but for whatever the hell you want to blath
> about:
> 
> --> > Laura sez:
> --> > Geoff White comments: We are a different breed then our
> --> >   east coast counterparts. I feel the need to say that
> --> >   statements like this upset me and  make me feel inferior (I
> --> >   currently live on the East Coast).
> 
> Geoff White sez:
> --> Laura I love you, the statement was not to imply that east
> --> coasters are in anyway inferior, I lived on the east coast for 32
> --> years, but I must stick by my original statement, that is why I
> --> moved out here, I got tired of being "different" and a "kook", out
> 
> 	[lots of examples why the east coast sucks]
> 
> --> I know this will start some people howling but when you come out
> --> here and live here a while, you'll understand.
> 
> For the record,
> I LOVE THE EAST COAST and I want to move back there.  But I can't do
> it yet lest I be labled as a job-hopper.
> 
> 1) They have SEASONS there.  The trees actually turn purty colors in
> the fall.  Purple and Red and Yellow and Orange. Its totally awesome.
> The best that happens here is a few leaves are yellow.  They even have
> wicked cool thunderstorms and snow!
> 
> 2) They play HARDCORE.  (rave related comment)
> 
> 3) They have awesome PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.  I lived in Boston for 5
> years and did not need a car.  You can get anywhere on the subway or
> busses. 
> 
> 4) They have no CABARET LAWS. (rave related comment)
> 
> 5) The PEOPLE.  Call East coasters unfriendly, but at least they
> aren't fake.  I don't like the mindless chatter with the supermarket
> clerk that I get out here.  In my experience, East coasters are less
> concerned with appearances and material possessions than Californians.
> When I moved here, I could not imagine that so much emphasis would be
> put on the car you drive, the furniture you own, the expensive
> expensive hobbies you participates in (seems like paragliding, sky
> diving, skiing, scuba diving, hang gliding, and other way $$$ hobbies
> are the hip thing here.)  
> 
> 6) With the exception of NYC, its a CHEAPER!  Lower taxes, lower
> prices.
> 
> 7) They have serious ICE HOCKEY.  (If anyone can tell me where I can
> buy a reasonably priced Boys Large hockey helmet inthe Bay Area, I'd
> appreciate the tip), and not just pros - for everyone. 
> 
> 8) You don't have to go very far (at least in new england) to get
> out of the sprawling city and suburbs.  In California, every time I
> try to go into the wilderness to be alone there are already a zillion
> people there. 
> 
> 9) The East Coast has more CHARACTER.  In California, all the streets
> are in a grid; every corner has a shopping mall with 3 restaraunts, a
> drug store and a beauty salon, complete with a zillion speed bumps,
> stucco walls, and a quasi-mexican red clay roof.  *Boring*  
> 
> 10) NO EARTHQUAKES
> 
> 11) Better NY style pizza.
> 
> I'm also curious about what you said Geoff.  Do you really think the
> crime situation is alot better in SF than in Boston?  I really didn't
> get that impression.  I'm much more scared walking around in SF.  But
> maybe I'm just ignorant.
> 
> 
> Sue
> 

To each is own... I live in Canada and I would think all nice thungs about
Toronto and Vancouver...  but we have to all realize that every area has a
different feel, no matter where you go and each place has its good point
and bad points...so don't worry about the differences, just rave and keep
the information free!

Cory Koski

:)  rave, rave, rave...



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 06:53:44 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 09:51:43 CST
Subject: Appropriate and Inappropriate topix
Status: 

hello kidz...goldenboy here...I've been on a few lists for a while on and 
off.  What i don't understand is people complaining about articles that they
feel are inappropriate for the "rave" lists. I mean, i do understand, but 
why duplicate what they would call inappropriate activity, by posting a 
article to the list that, according to thier definition, shouldn't be 
there. certainly the address of the person that posted the article is 
included with the article.   Some people say its as easy as a kill file or 
simply deleteting the one (as far as i know i only get one copy of each 
post, unless it's posted to mutliple lists) post.  It's my understanding 
that the person who determines what is valid and what is invalid on lists 
is the list-admin.  I could say, if you dont like the diversity of the 
posts, then unsub.  But thats rather elitest.  what i do want to say is 
that sometimes the list is just a way to ask for friends advice, or tell a 
few friends whats going on...or just talk a little shit.  i'm not 
advocating mindless babble on the net, but i'm not condemning occasional 
posts that don't focus "directly" on a rave, or the price of xtc.

if you're a "raver" or you go to raves and listen to techno, so what if you 
post something a tad away from the mainstream of conversation.  you're 
still a raver aren't you ? and this is a part of your life isn't it, hence 
theorhetically, its rave related. i read a lot of things about a man named 
mal (sfraves) that i have never met. and to me (in cleveland) that isn't 
rave related. yet, i was concerned for him because he's a raver and a 
human.  so i sent him a ne-raves sticker and card.  and from what i hear, 
he'z getting better everyday, yay mal ! :)

these lists have become so much more than a forum for strictly rave related 
topix.  many people have developed legit relationships on the lists.  i've 
been going through some rough times and some of the people on the 
net have been there for me, if not in person, then virtually (vrave :) and 
i'm very very thankful for that. 

and too rap this up...i'm not flaming anyone, just saying don't be so quick 
to jump on someone, for something so trivial. i recieve tons of mail, and i 
just use the old 'F6' key and whack the stuff i don't want to read. no 
sweat. no hassle. no loss.  besides, if you're at work, you shouldn't be 
reading rave related stuff anyway :) or so my boss says *looks over 
shoulder to make sure boss isn't around* :)

peace to the net. *steps down off of milk crate*...i don't think they make 
soapboxes anymore :)  *applies flame retardant gel #OZ472*
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
goldenboy          
                          "Forget your name"
                        "Just close your eyes"
                             "Go insane"
                            

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 06:57:58 1993
From: "Golden Boy" <deb9@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 09:56:14 CST
Subject: Re: politics choice: long, tiradey
Status: 

On Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:14:24 -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote:


>} When I was on ne-raves last April-August or so, people decided
>} what are appropriate topics to the list and PEOPLE STUCK TO IT.  I 
>} don't know why we can't do that here. 
>
>Thats not my recollection, and I've been on ne-raves from day one.

mine either brian...ne-raves has had it's share of "inappropriate topics" 
if any list has.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
goldenboy          
                          "Forget your name"
                        "Just close your eyes"
                             "Go insane"
                            

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 10:01:40 1993
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Healthier, More Manageable Hair)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 10:04:10 -0800
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 

NO NO NO YOU'RE ALL WRONG. Memphis is the only place to live. Graceland!
the Mississippi river! No Coast in sight anywhere! Pickuptrucks and chewing
tobacco!

Don't eveyone move at once.

jamie

"Duh...  Maybe  the  fact  that he  chants  Mantras for 6  hours  a  day  has 
something to do with his inability to get a date."               - Bryna Bank
_____________________________________________________________________________
jamie lawrence                                             jamiel@sybase.com



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 10:26:32 1993
From: howardb@enlil.premenos.sf.ca.us (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 10:23:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 

> > When I moved here, I could not imagine that so much emphasis would be
> > put on the car you drive, the furniture you own, the expensive
> > expensive hobbies you participates in (seems like paragliding, sky
> > diving, skiing, scuba diving, hang gliding, and other way $$$ hobbies
> > are the hip thing here.)  
> > 
> 
> Heh.  You haven't even scratched the surface :-)  
> General Aviation  costs me $90/hr to learn to fly.  (The FAA is kinda
> understandably sticky :-)
> Then again, I get to fly airplanes.  I guess I could blow more cash on
> booze and drugs and hawdcoah, but life is what you make it, I guess.
> 
> P.S.  Skydiving and Scuba are fun too.
> 


I reread this today and wanted to clarify a bit.  My points were 
that people who like "expensive expensive" hobbies generally don't do
it because it's "hip", but rather because they ACTUALLY LIKE what they
are doing, and that it's silly to castigate them because in your
opinion they are doing "the hip thing".

I don't have an above average salary, and learning to fly costs me
nearly what my rent does.  I do it because its important to me, and I
like it a lot.  I could give a fuck less if its "hip".

Also, I'm sure we all know people who blow easily the same amount on
cover charges, E, and/or other intoxicants on the weekend.  Whether or
not they are the "hip" things to do, people do these things because
they like them.  

Sue, have you actually tried any of the things you mentioned in the
above paragraph?  You might like them.

-H-




From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 10:28:01 1993
From: hsarbaz@koko.csustan.edu (Hoss Sarbaz)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:28:23 -0800
Subject: Coatsal Flame Wars
Status: 

EXCUSE ME WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PLANET AND IT CONSISTS OF MANY BEAUTIFULL PLACES
SUCH AS:

AMAZON JUNGLE, TROPICAL PACIFIC AND ATLANTIC, HIMALAYA'S, I CAN GO ON SO CUT THIS
 BULLSHIT WILL YA USE YOUR POWER OF INFLUENCE TO SAVE THE REINFORREST YOU CAN USE
 THE TIME YOU TAKE TO FLAME ONE ANOTHER TO E-MAIL THE WHITE HOUSE AND HELP SAVE S
UCH ENVIRONMENTAL AREA'S..........

THANK YOU AND GOOD NYTE!

HOSS

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 10:36:29 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:36:13 PST
Subject: Re:  EC vs. WC bickering
Status: 


> It's funny, but once I even talked to
> Brian about this, saying that there were major similarities on the
> BASIC level of what's going on -- and he insisted you all were different,
> too.

On the other hand, when I met you this summer, Laura, I came up with a theory:
Hypothetically, if I had ended up taking a job in NY three years ago, and if
you had ended up taking a job in SF three years ago, I would have ended up
getting into the faster music and you would have ended up getting into the 
slower music.  In other words -- it's not the people who are different; rather
it's the environment/atmosphere that's different.


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 10:50:45 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1993 10:50:29 -0800
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 

>> I could not imagine that so much emphasis would be put on the car you drive

I was real proud of my teeny econo-box this morning, as I parked it in
half a parking space right near the BART station  :^) :^) :^) :^)

>Try:
>John Henry's Pizza (the Haight)
>Volare's pizza (the Haight)
>North Beach Pizza [note:  more chicago style, but very good]

Hey, this thread's actually getting useful, maybe.  I still haven't found
good pizza here yet, but I'll give these places a try :^) :^)

I cannot comment on the east coast rave scene, since I never managed
to find it when I was living out there.  Obviously I didn't look in
the right places.  But when I came out here it found me :^)
I do get to the east coast several times a year, and I would like
to go to an east coast rave next time I get out there.  (I tried last
time, but nothing was happening while I was there as far as I could tell)


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 11:15:24 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 11:15:18 -0800
Subject: access to EC information
Status: 

A number of people have written to me saying they either didn't know anything
was happening back East or couldn't find anything and could I help them on
their next trip that-a-way.

The best way to get information on what is going on is to give a yell to
the ne-raves (North Eastern US) mailing list before you go.  The address is
pretty easy to remember -- it's nearly the same as the sfraves address!

	ne-raves@techno.stanford.edu

Just ask for a copy of our calendar and you'll be on your way.  We also do
a lot of picnics and dinner parties before raves, so chances are if you
plan on attending something you'll be able to meet up with a bunch of the
ne-ravers.

Some of you who wrote to me mentioned you'd be East this summer . . . I'd
just like to note here that if the Universe continues to smile upon me as
it has been I'll be living in San Francisco by then.  Aside from being 
prettier than the part of New Jersey I live in, it also has Brian B. :-)
Records and CDs are portable, so since it's so hard to find techno in
San Francisco I'll just bring my own :-) (thus eliminating part of the music
issue). :-) :-) :-)

Be well everyone.

Laura

P.S.  In my opinion you can't get good "NY-Style" pizza in NYC, either.  The
best pizza I've had on the East Coast has been in Philadelphia.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:10:06 1993
From: grigsby@agames.com@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:09:17 PST
Subject: Pizza wars
Status: 


All you coastal types arguing about who has the best pizza are as jackals
squabbling over the lion's leavings.  Go to the Midwest, specifically
Chicago, if you desire only the perfect pie.  Edwardo's and Giordano's
both romp all over anyone else's idea of what deep-dish is supposed to 
taste like.  You can swim in an Edwardo's medium.  And, of course, the
original Uno's is there, should your tastes run to a more buttery crust.

And for those of you who think there is nothing between Tahoe and the
Appalachians, a resounding "piffle".  I have spent most of my life in the
zone no one on the coasts seems to care about, and while there are many
great things about California, Boston, etc., I still remember fondly lazy
summer nights on a tumbledown back porch in Ohio, smoking hash from a
doctored beer can and plugging at fluoro tubes with bows and an air rifle.
Oh- rent was $100/mo.

It's not where you are, it's who you're with.

// g

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:20:29 1993
From: ambient@netcom.com (Joseph Rice)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 12:10:21 -0800
Subject: Ambient record store
Status: 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere about an all ambient record store in
London, but I can't find the reference and I'm wondering if any one knows
what it's called, or what the address/# is.

Thanks.

Joe

----------(Joe Rice)--------------------------(they entered the vortex)--------
-----(ambient@netcom.com)------------------(and the dreams became reality)-----



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:29:35 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:27:50 PST
Subject: Pizza wars
Status: 

deep dish pizza is an abomination.  thin crust is the way to go.

/jon, who worked in a thin-crust pizza joint when he was in high school.

obrave... er, anybody going to comeunity tonight?  :)


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:32:09 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 13:30:35 -0800
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 


Oh no, I think I have to include my opinions on this one having come 
from the East Coast, specifically New York, some 9 years ago. 

Mark writes::::
>1) We have distinct seasons but liveable weather.  If we want snow or
>intense thunder showers or colored leaves we can go to the Sierras but
>we don't live in misserable weather - for the most part.
I agree.  I hate the cold weather, but if I ever have a desire to 
visit and see the snow I adored as a child, I can go to the Sierras 
>2) We play VARIETY.
agreed.  I for one do not like Hardcore, I enjoy the house and gay 
house that I can hear in San Fransisco, I even enjoy an occasional 
disco tune here and there. Long live Sundays at the End Up. !!!:-) 
:-)
>3) San Francisco's BART is a model for other railway systems.  I often 
>overhear pleasantly surprised east-coasters compairing it against what
>they're used to.  As for transportation in general, some cities are cool,
>some suck, regarless of what coast your on.
where I came from in New York, (middle state) there was no such thing 
as public transportation.  I love the fact of jumping on Cal train 
and being at work in less time than it takes me to drive and with 
a lot less hassle. 
>4) We can buy beer in any store on any day of the week.
and the shopping malls are open on Sundays unlike New Jersey. (or have they 
repealed that now?)
>5) ----I will not make a people comparparison parody to Sue's origional
>VERY stereotyped, mean, bitter, untrue, banter about super market clerks (?)
>and Californians and what not.  It tells a lot, though.  Even though, 
>East Coasters are just as easy to make mean-spirited stereotypes of.
I for one enjoy talking to my sales clerks in the grocery stores, 
or anyone for that matter. Last time I visited my family in New York, 
I tried to be friendly with my store clerk, and couldn't even get 
her to look up from the cash register to barely acknowledge my presence 
much less to ask me how I was or to even smile. I don't know why 
people who deal with the public feel the need to be so rude. But 
then this is just my opinion. 
>6)If you exclude our large metro areas, the east coast isn't cheaper.  The
>sticks are the same everywhere.
I thought it was about the same.
>7)You can play any sport that exists here.  I'm quite sure you can find
>anything from ice hockey helmuts to hang-gliders, which I'm sure is a
>great sport, like skiing (did I mention we have this realy cool mountain
>range called the Sierras, where you can do some of the best skiing and
>rock climbing and hiking in the world?  Oh ya, and that it skirts one of
>the most fertile agricultural areas of the world?  And that there are
>beatuful red wood forests on one end and our very own desert on the other?
>And to the west, our own ocean coast with SANDY beaches, surfing, etc.?
at least you can go skiing in one weekend and rock climbing in another. 
On the east coast, you ski all winter and have little choice as to 
what else to do.  
>8)Cali and the rest of the west coast has more wildernes and better things
>to do in it (see above).  We have almost any kind of terra you need, man.
>If you can't find it, I don't know what to say.
agreed 150%.
(skipped 9)

>10)There are earthquackes on the east coast with the emminent possibility of
>a "big one".  True, not as much as hear but we don't get hurricanes (and
>remnents thereof) or tornadoes or all-around shitty cold-ass misserable
>weather and we don't have to shovel snow.
agreed again.
>11)New Yorkers are always talkin it up about what we can't get here like 
>they can there and it's always B.S.  Were as much or more of a culural mecca.
>We can get anything you can.  I've had better bagels here than I can find
>in NY.  That's an open challenge.  It is also just as stupid as any other
>food comparison because it all comes down to individual taste and fond
>memories.  On the subject of food though, we have a thriving culinary
>culture, complete with some of the very best (in the worlk) wine from our
>very own Napa valley and beer from the thriving micro beer revolution,
>which started here.  Oh and what goes better with the food than Northern
>California's finest green bud - the best in the world, smoke on that one.
Here I thought the same about pizza, not having found anything better 
than New York's. But I thanks to you on the list, next time I am 
in the Haight I will have to check out the restaurants some of you 
mentioned., 
(rest deleted)
-Mark

Agreeing with Andy as well::::
>>Hey, this thread's actually getting useful, maybe.  I still haven't found
>>good pizza here yet, but I'll give these places a try :^) :^)


So go and flame me if you like, for me California is better than 
the East Coast. 

:-)
vivianm

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:38:38 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:38:30 PST
Subject: cum-uni-T
Status: 


really stoked for comeunity tonight.  see you all there!
Bob


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:49:21 1993
From: Jess <jgeddes@reed.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:47:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: East to West
Status: 

I'm new here, but I agree with Pete Ashdown, SL ravers and raves are the
best... but does it really matter?  It's all about the same thing!  What
ever happened to UNITY?
(Believe it or not SL has good pizza too. i.e. The Pie)

Jess


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:50:28 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:36:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Wicked
Status: 

Is wicked 21+ as it usually is?

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:50:52 1993
From: jdwaidho@hydra.dazixca.ingr.com (Doug Waidhofer)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:49:25 PST
Subject: Pizza Wars
Status: 

Toni & Alba's  (known locally as T&A's) in Mountain View, CA
has one of the best traditional style pizzas that I've ever
tasted.  Try the double garlic and clam if you ever make it out here.

Is it lunch time yet ?

-jdw

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:54:49 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:40:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ARGGHHHH!!   Come/Unity not Wicked
Status: 

Sorry Mal, I meant Come/Unity not wicked.  And its 21+ cause of the site
right?
Later,
G

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 13:57:48 1993
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:57:42 -0800
Subject: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 


All this EC/WC stuff is really making me sick, especially now that it's
starting to get personal what with -H-'s last letter in referene to
Sue Raisty.

This has all served to confirm to me that a number of people in San
Francisco do have smug superiority complexes.  Well, I've had enough,
and am unsubscribing from sfraves.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 14:00:08 1993
From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 14:57:59 -0700 (MST)
Subject: XDZebra Review #38
Status: 

Ok, yes, I'm backlogged.  I'm trying to catch up, please be patient.  The
amount of material I've been receiving recently has almost tripled.


XDZebra Review #38

        Addiction
        266 Delmar Ct.
        Salt Lake City, UT 84101-1817

When in Utah call the T A S T E hotline 801-461-3375.

Trying to find these releases?  Try Ear/Rational: angst@psych.colorado.edu

Back issues are available from me by mail or by ftp'ing to techno.stanford.edu.
They're in the pub/raves/music/reviews directory.

XDZebra Reviews may be reproduced without permission under one condition,
they remain intact and unchanged.  If you publish this in print, mail me a
copy via "Addiction".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Review #38 Contents:
C-Tank: Nightmares Are Reality
Jeff Mills: Waveform Transmission Vol. 1
Wakin' Up A Dead Planet - Hardnoize Cross Europe
Coordinate 01
The Inner Works 1+2 Only Double CD - Limited Edition
X-103: Atlantis
Fast 4 Motion EP
The Kosmik Kommando: Universal Indicator Yellow
The Caustic Window: Joyrex J9 EP  [45]
Jesus Jones: Zeroes & Ones


C-Tank: Nightmares Are Reality
Overdrive: CD OVER 030-2
1  180  07:02 Nightmares Are Reality
2  180  04:32 Air Bounce
3  160  06:00 House Hallucination
4  175  05:47 Holomania
5  190  03:40 The Rave Zone
6  172  05:43 Tank Trap
7  179  04:42 Monotonic
8  200  05:11 Biolunch
9  164  04:51 Drugtrash
10 180  04:37 Lost and Intellect
11 180  04:00 Mutation Step
12 170  06:36 Walk on Base (Remix)

Comments:  In listening to C-Tank one gets the sense that the only form of
structure is a rotation of instruments through rhythm patterns.  Certainly
sheer speed is a virtue here, but when either a headache or sleep is induced
from listening to it, the hardcore label becomes a farce.  C-Tank can produce
some good tracks, I enjoy "Holomania" and "Walk on Base", but the majority of
this album smells of filler.

Summary: 6/10.  Hard and fast, but at the same time unsatisfying.


Jeff Mills: Waveform Transmission Vol. 1
Tresor/Axis: CD11
1  149  04:47 Phase 4
2  140  05:27 Jerical
3  137  04:52 Changes of Live
4  145  05:56 Berlin
5  154  04:21 The Hacker
6  140  04:47 Late Night
7  136  04:09 DNA
8  136  04:49 Man-Like

Comments:  Jeff makes hardcore that evolves and progresses over the length of
the entire track.  Sometime this is subtle as in "Man-Like", or it knocks your
head off as in "The Hacker".  The opener, "Phase 4" is especially crushing and
sounds monstrous on a big sound system.  The only track I really don't
appreciate is "Changes of Live" which takes a house piano riff and tries to
bend it into something hard.  It doesn't work, and begins to sound terrible
after the first 30 seconds.

Summary: 8/10.  Better than average, with a lot of intelligence thrown in.
Sort of a short album at 40 minutes, but only one bum track.


Wakin' Up A Dead Planet - Hardnoize Cross Europe
Monotone: MONO-020
1  142  04:50 Force Mass Motion
2  160  04:03 Tribes of the Moon: Type C.
3  147  04:52 Cyclo-S9: Cry
4  182  04:14 The Speedfreak: Cos It's Hard
5  153  05:12 Illuminatae: Tremora Del Terra (Rmx)
6  148  04:31 Cyberchrist: Somebody Kill That Mutherfuckin' Pig!
7  144  05:23 Jammin' Unit: Low Density
8  139  04:49 Walker: Elevator To Hell
9  182  04:34 Harlot: Elastische Sozialsysteme
10 140  03:57 Atom Heart: X.X.X.
11 180  04:32 Search & Destroy: Reach the Sky
12 167  04:44 Vinyl Countdown: Paroles (Remix)
13 147  05:32 Cybersonic: Jackhammer
14 143  04:41 Djungle Fever: Volume 001
15 157  04:42 Planet Love: 3 Times A Lady
16 155  03:10 Atmo Shinzo: Infrared

Comments: This is a surprisingly good hardcore compilation, distinguished of
course, by the pair of excellent tracks by Atom Heart, "X.X.X." and
"Infrared".  Most tracks have been edited down, but for the most part, what is
missing is just repetition of what has already been played.  "Type C." and the
Harlot track are excellent breakbeat, "3 Times A Lady" is very cool
spaceycore, and tracks like "Low Density", "Elevator To Hell", and the entry
by Speedfreak test the limits of noise, distortion, and hardcore rhythm.
There are a few dogs, "Reach the Sky" is terrible chipmunk, although "Tremora
del Terra" is actually the best chipmunk I've heard.  In addition, Cyberchrist
pulls out all stops to give us a real stinker.

Summary: 8/10.  Actually a higher hit rate than other non-label hardcore comps
I've purchased recently.  Yet this is still an arena for hardcore fans only.


Coordinate 01
Dossier: DCD 9044
1  138  03:33 Blackland: 1^3
2  130  04:37 Sect: Neuronatics
3  129  06:03 Intermix: Phase One
4  129  04:59 MC^2: Superconductivity
5  130  05:13 Sect: Andromeda Storm
6  139  06:38 Philth: Sub-Aqua
7  115  06:39 Mr. Fist: Lucifer Song
8  122  03:42 Digital White Noise: Demoralize
9  135  04:42 Ithakrash: You Will Fry
10 138  05:28 a Duck: Phenethylamine Backwash
11 146  04:19 X.Drone: Sub-Lunar
12 151  04:15 Tensor: Get Him
13 134  08:21 Downtime: I Want You (To Kill)
14 145  06:13 DV8R: Sounwave

Comments: Imagine what it would be like if everyone took inspiration from the
first Intermix album.  Imagine if this came together on a compilation that was
produced with crystal clear production.  Imagine no more, for Coordinate 01 is
a brilliant result of the production talents of Mike Balch and Bill Leeb.  I
was expecting something more along the lines of classic industrial, but what I
found was sounds that rival the best of the electronic dance groups today.
"Sub-Aqua" is the prime track on here, a truly stunning trance piece that
rises from the depth of night into the light of day.  "Phenethylamine
Backwash" is breakbeat like only Dwayne Goettel of Skinny Puppy could give us,
the Altern8 samples will probably enrage the rave critics even more.
"Sub-Lunar" reminisces of Swamp Terrorists with a speed guitar over fast
beats.  The initial track by Blackland and "Superconductivity" by MC^2 is up
to date cybermaterial without cyberpretentiousness.

Summary: 9/10.  Supremely delicious compilation.  Give us further Coordinates
DRT!


The Inner Works 1+2 Only Double CD - Limited Edition
Overdrive: OVER LE 1
CD 1:
1  130  05:33
2  126  04:54
3  123  05:11
4  123  04:19
5  138  05:32
6  130  05:26
7  141  05:48
8  134  05:16
9  140  05:23
10 144  05:40
11 138  05:40
12 136  04:19
13 138  04:47
14 122  04:39
CD 2:
1  144  06:13 Microbots: Microillusions
2  144  05:00 C-Tank: Walk on Base
3  145  04:52 Tracid Posse: Vivarium
4  130  06:33 Jim Clarke: Qualification (Round 4)
5  151  04:08 Syncroflash A/B: Motorbike Raiders of the Lost Dead
6  143  05:27 Cell-U-Loid: Midnight, Tonight
7  136  03:54 Psycho Drums: Pattern 6
8  157  05:35 Mark N-R-G: Bless to Kill
9  154  04:28 Syncroflash A/B: Request
10 126  05:40 Nino and Atomic Robo Kid: Low Technology
11 150  07:02 C-Tank: Narcotize
12 130  04:08 Sound to Light: Clean Condition
13 166  05:19 Clone I.D.: Beyond 160
14 150  03:38 Turntable Hoschis: Peace

Comments:  Apologies for the lack of a track listing on the first disc.  This
release came without any listings, and I had the "Inner Works 2" around, so I
copied that.  Frankly, it isn't too much to worry about though.  These two
compilations have about a 1/3 hit rate, the rest is droning drek.  If it came
down to which comp to purchase, I'd recommend the second, it seems to be a bit
more fleshed out.  However, both of them are way under the premium hardcore.

Summary: 4/10.  Boring attempts spotted with interesting successes.


X-103: Atlantis
Axis/Tresor: 12
1       01:22 Introduction
2  134  03:52 Atlantis (The Entrance)
3       01:31 Interlude A
4  135  04:18 The Gardens
5  145  04:05 Acropolis
6  133  04:42 Hagia Triada
7       01:08 Seduction of Europa
8  139  04:57 Temple of Poseidon
9  110  06:36 Minnia (The Queen's Theme)
10 146  01:11 Eruption
11      00:55 Interlude B
12 141  02:07 Tephra
13 134  03:30 10,000 Chariots
14 140  03:45 Curse of God
15      04:28 Thera
16 139  03:04 Magma (Technology)

Comments:  "Atlantis" is much easier to digest than the last X-102 album,
"Rings of Saturn", but it also gives further understanding as to what is
trying to be accomplished here.  High on structure, low on content, these
albums are a soundtrack for the imagination.  Some tracks would work on a
dance floor, but most are just there to listen to.  X-103 is more hardcore
than anything else, even though there are a few nice ambient tracks thrown in,
especially "Thera".  The rest is a prime example of analog work with a large
experimental flavor to the piece as a whole.

Summary: 8/10.  More mature than previous X-10 work.  A bit of ambience, but
largely on a hardcore sound.


Fast 4 Motion EP
Overdrive: LC 6695
Side A:
1  165  100 Meter Final
2  169  Practiceroom
Side B: [45]
1  151  Hardcore Baseline

Comments: So I suppose this is my first taste of "Darkness" and although "100
Meter Final" is fairly slick, "Practiceroom" sounds like speedy breakbeat
diddling on a tape.  "Hardcore Baseline" throws the breakbeat for a return to
Force Mass Motion or Prodigy styled hardcore.  Listening to "Baseline" all the
way through could be a painful experience, which is probably why they've laid
the breaks out neatly on the record, it makes for better mixing.

Summary: 4/10.  Ho hum.  I'm sure there's better stuff available in this
genre, but the B-side takes the value way down.


The Kosmik Kommando: Universal Indicator Yellow
Rephlex: MC 202
Yellow Side:    [45]
1  141
2  
Sign Side:
1  140
2  137
3  141

Comments: Kosmik Kommando pulls off acid from the depths of distortion on the
"Yellow Side".  The first track is severely noisy, but not really hardcore in
an odd way.  However, with the following noisefest that defies description
with track two, I started to wonder if KK was going for the techno equivalent
of smashing his guitar.  Probably the noisiest electronics to hit my
turntables yet.  "Sign Side" sounds quited different, still acidic, but more
like Atom Heart's work.

Summary: 7/10.  Noiselicious and very original one side, but rather standard
on the B-side.


The Caustic Window: Joyrex J9 EP  [45]
Rephlex: CAT 009 ii
Paper Side:
1  152
2  159
Black Side:
1  150
2  136

Comments: At first it took me a while to determine the correct speed this
should be played at.  In reality, it sounds good on 33 as well, slow and
crushing with a dub sort of effect.  However, the samples used point to the
fact that this is indeed a 45.  Joyrex J9 represents more of a tubey hollow
sound for Richard James.  Although track 1 on the "Paper Side" is bitterly
acidic and hard, track 2 is almost ambient.  To emphasize this, it is recorded
at an obnoxiously lower level as well.  On the "Black Side" is an tribal acid
track that emphasizes the previously mentioned "hollowness".  Finally, the
closer is a reuse of the "We are the music makers" sample, but to better
effect than "Ambient Works 85-92".

Summary: 8/10.  Better than average release for the multitalented Richard
James.  Plus some free "Magic Gum"!  How can you lose?


Jesus Jones: Zeroes & Ones
EMI UK: 12FOOD44
Side A:
1  145  Zeroes & Ones (The Prodigy Versus Jesus Jones Mix)
2  120  Zeroes & Ones (Central Nervous System Mix)
3  120  Zeroes & Ones
Side B:
1  140  Zeroes & Ones (Aphex Twin Reconstruction #1 Mix)
2  140  Zeroes & Ones (Aphex Twin Reconstruction #2 Mix)

Comments: Gripping my intestines and bracing for the worst, I threw down the
Jesus Jones record and started it spinning.  Hmmm, sounds like Prodigy with a
Jesus Jones sample.  Then it sounds like Jesus Jones with more guitars.
Finally, just JesusJones.  Turning it over, I found Aphex Twin with a Jesus
Jones sample locked up, smashed down, and thrown into an ambient dungeon.
Richard James shoots and scores again.  This reminds me a lot of the Curve and
St. Etienne remixes, little snippet of the original thrown over unique rhythms
and sound.  I can only imagine what Aphex thought of the original piece.

Summary: 5/10.  One side is good.  The other side is expected.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 14:17:13 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 14:12:18 PST
Subject: Re: Pizza wars
Status: 


> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  3 13:28 PST 1993
> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:27:50 PST
> From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Pizza wars
> 
> deep dish pizza is an abomination.  thin crust is the way to go.
> 
> /jon, who worked in a thin-crust pizza joint when he was in high school.
> 
> obrave... er, anybody going to comeunity tonight?  :)
> 
> 
Yup I'll be there, luv phaser fully charged :)

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 14:23:50 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 17:22:06 EST
Subject: Pizza wars
Status: 

Impellizaris in Louisville Ky. They make their own sausage and tomato
sauce. A medium pizza is on average 3" thick, has many many layers,
takes about an hour to cook, and weighs 14 (!) pounds. Price: $26,
feeds 6-8. It is without question the best food I have ever eaten.

Sean


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 14:29:03 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 17:28:59 EST
Subject: DAT deal falls through: Looking for used 1200s.
Status: 


I was going to purchase a portable DAT deck, but the guy I was going
to buy it from succumbed to the lure of quick cash and sold it to
someone else.

So instead I'm looking for a pair of used 1200s, pref with styli. If
anyone knows of a good deal, please point me to it. Also looking for a
mixer, a high quality but not overfeatured one. And a shrubbery.

Thanks,

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 14:45:03 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 14:40:08 PST
Subject: Re: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 


> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov  3 14:23 PST 1993
> From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:57:42 -0800
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: ENOUGH ALREADY
> 
> 
> All this EC/WC stuff is really making me sick, especially now that it's
> starting to get personal what with -H-'s last letter in referene to
> Sue Raisty.
> 
> This has all served to confirm to me that a number of people in San
> Francisco do have smug superiority complexes.  Well, I've had enough,
> and am unsubscribing from sfraves.
> 
> Laura
> 
Laura, please don't unsubscribe we do value your opinion
I think most of this was all in fun.  You have to realize that SO MANY
of us out here were raised and grew up on the east coast, if we really liked it,
we would be there right now, it's not that the EC is bette than the WC but for
ME there is no question that HERE is where I want to live and I don't
want to live THERE.  I think NYC is a great place and I love to visit,
we have a saying "they always come back to Baltimore" and I do go back
and enjoy my stay.  I went to Denver a few weeks ago and liked it,
even passed through Salt Lake City, prety place.  I liked the land scape
but sooner or later I began to notice al of the people staring at me
(with aparent fear) (this old guy in the Colorado Springs airport actuall told
his wife to "watch out for that wild one over therre " (And I wasn't even 
dressed that ravey) The bottom line is that when I walk down the streets of SF
no matter how wild I look, people either smile at me or ignore me, they don't
look at me with hostility or fear, It's like they know we are all part of the
same tribe.  If I smile at someone in NYC if they are a woman she thinks I'm trying to hit on her and if he a man he thinks I'm gay or about to mug him :)
This is the place for me.  And I intend to stay through the quakes and
the fires and the epidemics.  Ecotopia is my home.



				G


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 15:19:20 1993
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 15:19:14 PST
Subject:  cum-uni-T
Status: 


after getting six email messages asking for info, from the guide:

Wednesday, November 3rd - Come/Unity
	Gavan  Simon  Jeno  Garth
	1015 Folsom, 10pm

cover will probably be $5 and this has always been a 21+ event due to
the venue.

Bob

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 15:24:42 1993
From: howardb@enlil.premenos.sf.ca.us (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 15:22:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Available now at Housewares...
Status: 

Housewares on Haight has two items I strongly recommend: Aphex Twin
Tickets (with Moby, Orbital, Young American Primitive, DJ's, etc...)
for $16 and the Exist Dance comp, "Transmitting from Heaven" for $17.

The ED comp is really, really good.
(I think Mike already reviewed it so that's all I'll say, besided if
you like Eden Transmission's "I'm So High" you'll like the remix,
apparently done at Casa Twitch by Mike himself, and that the High
Lonesome Sound System tracks are especially good).

-H-


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 15:35:42 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 15:35:32 -0800
Subject: Re: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 


>From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
>Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:57:42 -0800
>To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
>Subject: ENOUGH ALREADY
>Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
>Message-ID: <9311032157.AA04839@soda.berkeley.edu>


>All this EC/WC stuff is really making me sick, especially now that it's
>starting to get personal what with -H-'s last letter in referene to
>Sue Raisty.

>This has all served to confirm to me that a number of people in San
>Francisco do have smug superiority complexes.  Well, I've had enough,
>and am unsubscribing from sfraves.

>Laura


sorry it has all offended you Laura. I actually thought it was fun 
and funny, especially with the offspring, "Pizza Wars".




:-)

vivianm

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 15:44:44 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 15:44:33 -0800
Subject: Re: East and West
Status: 

Will people PUHLEAZE stop this coast-bashing?  It's embarrasing to those
of us here who have friends outside of California on this list who can 
conclude nothing from it other than San Franciscans are complete snobs!
I know we aren't!  It's not wrong to love where you live, I love it here
and it's not been without living elsewhere, but I don't go around trying
to cram that viewpoint into other people's faces because there are some
facets of life out here I can see people not liking.  WE ARE NOT PERFECT.
California is NOT MECCA. 

        Brian

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 15:47:43 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1993 15:47:08 -0800
Subject: Re: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 

At 01:57 PM 11/3/93 -0800, Laura La Gassa wrote:
>Well, I've had enough, and am unsubscribing from sfraves.

Please don't!!  We'll be good...


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 16:16:23 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 15:41:45 PST
Subject: Re:  School choice: long, non-rave
Status: 



Hello,

So I want you (yes, all of you) to email me and let me know if you want
the occasional post with political and other social-interest type pieces
of information.  If I get (hopefully) even a likely slant 1 way or the
other, I will honor that.  I also won't tell anyone what your opinion
was, no matter what "THEY" threaten to do to me.  So speak up, I don't
give a rat's ass  if you want this type of information (actually that's
not ENTIRELY true, but) or not, but I would like some even approximate
idea of the propriety of the information in this location, blah, blah,
blah, etc.  Ok?  Thanks...

Chris

(This text composed by voice)


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 16:24:16 1993
From: giamma@oas.olivetti.com (Gianmaria Clerici)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 16:23:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DENON 2000 (not rave raleted)
Status: 


I decided to sell my DENON 2000 double CD player because I want to buy some
other music equipment.

I know someone is gonna say:

	"you can't use SFRAVES for your own advertisment"

sorry, but I'm just thinking that someone on the list could find this 
usefull and helpfull. I know lots of people like me are trying to get into
CD DJing.

Anyway e-mail me if you are interested and I'll give you all the details.

see ya all at Come-Unity tonight: I'll be wearing a white Spacetime Continuum
T-shirt.

					Giamma

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 16:57:38 1993
From: DWATANAB@uci.edu (Dana Watanabe)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 16:57:26 PST
Subject: E v C
Status: 

first off... id REALLY like to repeat
saying that this is east coast v. west coast pisses me off

but anyhow..
id REALLY like to support what laura said
no.. not EVERYONE in SF is smug about living there
but..

like i just said like 20 minutes ago to brian
when i go up to SF and say that im from LA
people feel pity for me
they apologize
they act like i am missing an apendage or something
and quite frankly in case you cant tell
ITS FUCKING ANNOYING

wow... that feels good

although i cant really say im living in LA by choice
i do love El Pueblo de La Reina de Los Angeles
i love the beach, even santa monica
i love the mountains, i love the smog, i love being in a club all night
and in the morning seeing the hollywood sign, i love pink's hot dog
stand, i love mc arthur park even
its what makes me enjoy where i live and have lived

im not saying i dont get smug about living in LA, i do
and people in NY and Boston and all over have acted smug
about where they live, especially in this discussion

but what does any of that have to do with people
i used to make fun of the hardcore east coast stuff
but now i know too many people and cant help but respect them
and their musical/cultural choices

which is what i thought this was all supposed to be about

but i've been wrong before so it wouldnt surprise me if i am again

 ,
dana 

"Forget all this chocolate and vanilla, what you need is some Sasparilla!"
-Doc Martin
(originally from SF and visits often, but he seems quite happy where he is)



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:00:35 1993
From: rpcaras@srv.PacBell.COM (Bob Carasik)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 17:00:31 PST
Subject: Re: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 


OK, ENOUGH OF THAT ONE .  

It's time for a reprise of "Can Blue Men Sing the Whites?" !

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-p :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) >:.> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) XXoXX
> 
> >All this EC/WC stuff is really making me sick, especially now that it's
> >starting to get personal what with -H-'s last letter in referene to
> >Sue Raisty.
> 
> >This has all served to confirm to me that a number of people in San
> >Francisco do have smug superiority complexes.  Well, I've had enough,
> >and am unsubscribing from sfraves.
> 
> >Laura
> 
> 
> sorry it has all offended you Laura. I actually thought it was fun 
> and funny, especially with the offspring, "Pizza Wars".
>  
> :-)
> 
> vivianm
> 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:07:23 1993
From: "Scott Nozawa*" <scott_nozawa*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 3 Nov 1993 15:24:07 -0800
Subject: Not brave enough?
Status: 

                       Subject:                               Time:14:59
  OFFICE MEMO          Not brave enough?                      Date:11/3/93

Yo!

     For anyone who is just not up to a hellish thursday morning after ComUnity
or if you live in the South Bay and want a good warm up, come on down to Motion
at 400 S. 1st St. (F/X) in San Jose.
  
Tonights line-up is:
Loren                9 to 10:30
John Howard    10:30 to Midnight
John Williams  Midnight to Closing? 

'Til the Trance is induced...                     T. Scot

P.S.  I think that the snow on the North Pole is colder than that on Antartica
8*)
     



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:15:13 1993
From: megatest!kermit!preiter@uu2.psi.com (Pete Reiter)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:57:50 PST
Subject: Re: Pizza wars
Status: 



>obrave... er, anybody going to comeunity tonight?  :)

Ummm, no I don't think anyone's going. It'll probably be pretty dead. You know
the sound system at 1015 Folsom sucks, the DJs aren't very good and the old
Communities were all such vibeless parties anyway. Everyone would be better
off to just stay home.

Pete

P.S. :), See y'all tonight.


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:23:50 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 17:23:42 PST
Subject: ???
Status: 

geoffw@internex.net, howardb@enlil.premenos.sf.ca.us,
andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com, mw@sysbase.com, laura@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: EC/WC wars - I've had it. (long)
BCC: raisty

OK, fine.  I get the point.  I should go back to where I've come from.
Well believe me I'm working on it.  And I'll probably unsubscribe from
this list as soon as possible because it has a pretty crappy vibe.

But before I go, let me respond to some of the avalanches of email I
have received.  Since so many people had duplicate attacks, I'm going
to do it all in one letter.  Besides I erased alot of it already so I
can't even send it to the zillions of individuals who sent me stuff.

--- I am working on moving back to New England but I can't do it yet.
I just graduated from college, so Howard, I am not qualified to be a
contractor.  I don't have any experience and I'm finding out I'm
really ignorant about my field too.

--- Zillions of people have suggested that I must be a moron since I
complained about having to go a long way to get to the wilderness and
be alone, away for people.  You all missed the point of my original
post.  I'll give it to you, California has many more National parks
and open spaces, etc...  But you can NEVER seem to get away from all
the people.   I've been to just about all the places y'all suggested
and there were still TONS of people there.  Even when I went camping
with a wilderness permit in Tahoe.  Believe me, I've tried.  No need
to get hostile.

--- And YES I have tried some of those expensive hobbies.  And YES
they seem fun and I have no problem with someone who is participates
in one of them because she truly loves it.  But it seems like all the
people I've met here are not into it because they love it, but into it
because it is expensive and has "status."  I love bicycling and have
totally had my mtn. bike and road bike scoffed at out here.  True,
they're not made of titanium, but I'm not that good so why the hell
can't I use just a decent, average bike?  This NEVER happened out
east.  So what if I drive a 4-door and not a sportscar, if i'd rather
save my money for tickets home than blowing it on parasailing or the
latest fad?  You'd think it was a crime according to most of the
people I've met out here.  And it especially ticks me when these same
material object-mongers start bitching about money (as they always
will), I mean if you can't afford your car payments, sell the damn
car!  argh. i apologize for going off, but I have NEVER met people so
preoccupied with owning the newest toys and doing the cool things as I
have out here.  PERHAPS I've just met the wrong people, but...

And yeah, hockey (the equip. anyway) can be expensive.  I've been
playing since I stopped growing at age 13, so I already have all the
stuff. In the east the ice time and leagues are cheap; I'm finding
that's not the case here.

--- While CAL train and BART and the buses out here are nice, they
really can't compare.  They don't run often enough, they shut down too
early.  And things are so much more spread out here it is really not
possibl to cover everywhere.  In Boston, I could go out drinking
anywhere in the city and get safely home without driving.  

--- Regarding my original objection to posting political, non-rave
related stuff to this list:  I've gotten all these little notes that
tell me something like "For your information, NE-raves is much more
babbley and strays from the topic much more than SF-raves".  Well,
maybe I just had good timing or something, but that is not my
experience.  When I was first on Ne-raves last Jan, there was a lot of
babble but after a serious discussion it seemed like "guidelines" were
established and people generally stuck to them.  At least until I left
in August.  and there was no where near the ammount of political
posturing on that list that there is here, or the declarations of what
is the "correct" political opinion to have if you are a raver.  

--- I DID NOT START THIS COAST WARS DISCUSSION.  Someone out there
called my list biased, unfair and immature, and implied I started the
whole thing.  Well, I was responding to what I saw as a totally
negative and wrong list of everything that was wrong about the east
coast by Geoff White. And he was responding to Laura, who complained
about a comment by Michael W. who said that sfravers are a "breed
apart from east-coast counterparts".  I was just giving the reasons
why I love the east coast.   

--- AND YES there are Raves in the Boston Area.  From all the mail I
get, it seems like a lot of this list really thinks that there is no
scene up in the north-east (with the exception of new york).  Well,
that's just totally wrong.  Maybe I've just hit all the wrong raves
out here, but there seems to be much more of a feeling of community
out in NE.  Just an impression though.  So please DON'T lynch me.
 
--- PARDON me for my "VERY stereotyped, mean, bitter, untrue banter
about supermarket clerks" and for implying I am mean-spirited.  I've
never even met you.  Let me assure you that I am quite polite to the
supermarket clerks who start chatting with me.  And i believe that I
said: "I don't like the mindless chatter with the supermarket clerk."
Perhaps you are interpretting this statement incorrectly.  I do not
mean to imply that the supermarket clerks are stupid and have no
minds, its just their chatter is.  small talk generally is!  
I personally don't want comments on what I am buying "what do you need
that for?" and jokes about my purchases.  Perhaps some people like it,
but IN MY OPINION it is fake.  This person has no interest in being my
friend, so why act all chummy with me?  I just don't like it.

--- Believe me I'm not "jealous" of California's character, and that
is most certainly NOT the reason why I said I don't like it.  Please.
Have you ever been in a small New England town in the autumn?  Most of
the houses are different, and old, with basements and fireplaces and
shingles on the roof.  And the meandering streets and stone fences,
with rows of maple and oak trees that are bright bright shades of
purple and red.  There's nothing to compare in the Sierras I assure
you.  Been there.  I guess you've never been to New England though.
It has a hell of a lot more character - with the exception of the
Spanish missions, it's a lot older.

--- there are lots of GOOD microbreweries in boston at least, don't
claim it as SF's.  Commonwealth brewery, cambridge brewing co, boston
beer works, etc... (the Sam adams commercials claim they started the
microbrewery revolution, but thats not worth much...)

--- Thank you for the pizza suggestions.  I look forward to trying
them out.  Maybe it will help me forget my homesickness while I ache
to go back home.

And for EVERYONE who personally wrote me to tell me to get the fuck
out of their cherished state, thank you so much for thinking of me
enough to drop me a personal note.  It made my day, really.  Thanks
for acting like elitist prima donnas, and I'll be more than happy to
leave your state.

I'll get out of here soon, I promise.

sue raisty









From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:24:28 1993
From: "Barry Alexander" <barryale@symantec.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 17:24:04 pst
Subject: twitch email address?
Status: 



          has anyone out there ever ordered any stuff from twitch
          mail order?  i made an order recently and haven't got
          anything back yet.  does twitch have an email address?
          just wondering which black hole my letter fell into:
          ups or  twitch?  thanks!

          barry

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:35:26 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 17:35:11 PST
Subject: ???
Status: 

geoffw@internex.net, howardb@enlil.premenos.sf.ca.us,
andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com, mw@sysbase.com, laura@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: EC/WC wars - I've had it. (long)
BCC: raisty

OK, fine.  I get the point.  I should go back to where I've come from.
Well believe me I'm working on it.  And I'll probably unsubscribe from
this list as soon as possible because it has a pretty crappy vibe.

But before I go, let me respond to some of the avalanches of email I
have received.  Since so many people had duplicate attacks, I'm going
to do it all in one letter.  Besides I erased alot of it already so I
can't even send it to the zillions of individuals who sent me stuff.

--- I am working on moving back to New England but I can't do it yet.
I just graduated from college, so Howard, I am not qualified to be a
contractor.  I don't have any experience and I'm finding out I'm
really ignorant about my field too.

--- Zillions of people have suggested that I must be a moron since I
complained about having to go a long way to get to the wilderness and
be alone, away for people.  You all missed the point of my original
post.  I'll give it to you, California has many more National parks
and open spaces, etc...  But you can NEVER seem to get away from all
the people.   I've been to just about all the places y'all suggested
and there were still TONS of people there.  Even when I went camping
with a wilderness permit in Tahoe.  Believe me, I've tried.  No need
to get hostile.

--- And YES I have tried some of those expensive hobbies.  And YES
they seem fun and I have no problem with someone who is participates
in one of them because she truly loves it.  But it seems like all the
people I've met here are not into it because they love it, but into it
because it is expensive and has "status."  I love bicycling and have
totally had my mtn. bike and road bike scoffed at out here.  True,
they're not made of titanium, but I'm not that good so why the hell
can't I use just a decent, average bike?  This NEVER happened out
east.  So what if I drive a 4-door and not a sportscar, if i'd rather
save my money for tickets home than blowing it on parasailing or the
latest fad?  You'd think it was a crime according to most of the
people I've met out here.  And it especially ticks me when these same
material object-mongers start bitching about money (as they always
will), I mean if you can't afford your car payments, sell the damn
car!  argh. i apologize for going off, but I have NEVER met people so
preoccupied with owning the newest toys and doing the cool things as I
have out here.  PERHAPS I've just met the wrong people, but...

And yeah, hockey (the equip. anyway) can be expensive.  I've been
playing since I stopped growing at age 13, so I already have all the
stuff. In the east the ice time and leagues are cheap; I'm finding
that's not the case here.

--- While CAL train and BART and the buses out here are nice, they
really can't compare.  They don't run often enough, they shut down too
early.  And things are so much more spread out here it is really not
possibl to cover everywhere.  In Boston, I could go out drinking
anywhere in the city and get safely home without driving.  

--- Regarding my original objection to posting political, non-rave
related stuff to this list:  I've gotten all these little notes that
tell me something like "For your information, NE-raves is much more
babbley and strays from the topic much more than SF-raves".  Well,
maybe I just had good timing or something, but that is not my
experience.  When I was first on Ne-raves last Jan, there was a lot of
babble but after a serious discussion it seemed like "guidelines" were
established and people generally stuck to them.  At least until I left
in August.  and there was no where near the ammount of political
posturing on that list that there is here, or the declarations of what
is the "correct" political opinion to have if you are a raver.  

--- I DID NOT START THIS COAST WARS DISCUSSION.  Someone out there
called my list biased, unfair and immature, and implied I started the
whole thing.  Well, I was responding to what I saw as a totally
negative and wrong list of everything that was wrong about the east
coast by Geoff White. And he was responding to Laura, who complained
about a comment by Michael W. who said that sfravers are a "breed
apart from east-coast counterparts".  I was just giving the reasons
why I love the east coast.   

--- AND YES there are Raves in the Boston Area.  From all the mail I
get, it seems like a lot of this list really thinks that there is no
scene up in the north-east (with the exception of new york).  Well,
that's just totally wrong.  Maybe I've just hit all the wrong raves
out here, but there seems to be much more of a feeling of community
out in NE.  Just an impression though.  So please DON'T lynch me.
 
--- PARDON me for my "VERY stereotyped, mean, bitter, untrue banter
about supermarket clerks" and for implying I am mean-spirited.  I've
never even met you.  Let me assure you that I am quite polite to the
supermarket clerks who start chatting with me.  And i believe that I
said: "I don't like the mindless chatter with the supermarket clerk."
Perhaps you are interpretting this statement incorrectly.  I do not
mean to imply that the supermarket clerks are stupid and have no
minds, its just their chatter is.  small talk generally is!  
I personally don't want comments on what I am buying "what do you need
that for?" and jokes about my purchases.  Perhaps some people like it,
but IN MY OPINION it is fake.  This person has no interest in being my
friend, so why act all chummy with me?  I just don't like it.

--- Believe me I'm not "jealous" of California's character, and that
is most certainly NOT the reason why I said I don't like it.  Please.
Have you ever been in a small New England town in the autumn?  Most of
the houses are different, and old, with basements and fireplaces and
shingles on the roof.  And the meandering streets and stone fences,
with rows of maple and oak trees that are bright bright shades of
purple and red.  There's nothing to compare in the Sierras I assure
you.  Been there.  I guess you've never been to New England though.
It has a hell of a lot more character - with the exception of the
Spanish missions, it's a lot older.

--- there are lots of GOOD microbreweries in boston at least, don't
claim it as SF's.  Commonwealth brewery, cambridge brewing co, boston
beer works, etc... (the Sam adams commercials claim they started the
microbrewery revolution, but thats not worth much...)

--- Thank you for the pizza suggestions.  I look forward to trying
them out.  Maybe it will help me forget my homesickness while I ache
to go back home.

And for EVERYONE who personally wrote me to tell me to get the fuck
out of their cherished state, thank you so much for thinking of me
enough to drop me a personal note.  It made my day, really.  Thanks
for acting like elitist prima donnas, and I'll be more than happy to
leave your state.

I'll get out of here soon, I promise.

sue raisty









From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:51:13 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 14:34:00 PST
Subject: Song ID
Status: 

In case anyone's interested, I found out that that "I wan my planet back!"
song is Dub Tribes new single, which is probably not out yet (ecxept Garth's
copy).

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:51:18 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 14:21:43 PST
Subject: Re: Pizza wars
Status: 

As far as Chicago style goes, I've seen a very favorable review of
the bay areas Zachary's by an ex-Chicago(in, ite, whatever).

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 17:55:44 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 17:54:43 PST
Subject: Re:  Available now at Housewares...
Status: 


> Housewares on Haight has two items I strongly recommend: Aphex Twin
> Tickets (with Moby, Orbital, Young American Primitive, DJ's, etc...)
> for $16 and the Exist Dance comp, "Transmitting from Heaven" for $17.
> 
> The ED comp is really, really good.
> (I think Mike already reviewed it so that's all I'll say,
I did write a review, but I never posted it to sfraves.  I'll append my review
to the end of this message.

> if you like Eden Transmission's "I'm So High" you'll like the remix,
> apparently done at Casa Twitch by Mike himself
The Up Above The World track on the Exist Dance CD is their original version.
The UVC remix of this track is on Twitch CD #8.

-------

Exist Dance - "Transmitting From Heaven"
Exist Dance ED CD 01

bpm  time  artist - title
---  ----  -----------------------------------------
103  6:50  Tranquility Bass - "Cantamilla"
134  6:46  Eden Transmission - "I'm So High"
133  6:50  Voodoo Transmission - "Voodoo Fire"
133  5:54  Eden Transmission - "Transmission Maya"
125  4:22  High Lonesome Sound System - "Psychic Dreaming"
128  3:29  Tylervision - "Purdy Deyenol"
130  4:30  High Lonesome Sound System - "Champion Sound"
132  7:43  Up Above The World - "Straight Up Caffeine"
128  4:53  High Lonesome Sound System - "We're Go: Stage One"
130  7:34  High Lonesome Sound System - "Waiting For The Lights"
 90  8:06  Tranquility Bass - "They Came In Peace"
101  5:45  Tranquility Bass - "Mya Yadana"


Exist Dance is two guys from LA who put out records under various names.
Their two most well-known tracks are "I'm So High" by Eden Transmission
and "Mya Yadana" by Tranquility Bass.  "I'm So High" was an incredibly 
popular trance track in the San Francisco rave scene, right up there with
"Papua New Guinea" and "Stella".  "Mya Yadana" was released on the Caroline
Records compilation "Excursions in Ambience" and was many people's first
exposure to Exist Dance.

The Exist Dance guys collect old jazz and swing records from the 20s, 30s
and 40s.  Two of the more interesting tracks on this CD, "Cantamilla" and
"They Came in Peace", consist of samples from these old records combined 
seemlessly with hip-hop beats and Orb-ish ambience.

The remaining tracks on the CD fall into various other categories -- 
tribal ("Voodoo Fire"), ragga-tinged hip-hop ("Champion Sound"), acid trance
("I'm So High" and "Straight Up Caffeine") and ambient dub ("Mya Yadana" and
"They Came In Peace").  But each track is so well-written and well-produced
that it's almost degrading to try to pigeon-hole them into such typical genres.

And "Purdy Deyenol" by Tylervision is definitely the funniest song I've
heard in quite a while.

This CD is being distributed by Caroline, which means that most record stores
should be able to get it.


From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 19:21:53 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 21:22:26 -0600
Subject: Re: I love the East Coast
Status: 


I think you all are distnictly mistaken......

The midwest (Mich, Ill, Ohio, Ind, Wisc) is where it is at.....

why?!? one might ask? well for starters the lack of natural disasters comes to mind, I  
don't have to worry about being blown away by a feirce wind, having the earth shake and  
roll until my funturie disentegrates (imagine what that would do to a turntable  
spinning a record...ouch (oh has there ever been an earthquake during a party?!? and if  
so what did it sound like?) ), there is a general security in natures wonders around  
here....(and shoveling snow can be hella fun...plus you west coasters can't enjoy  
things such as making snow-creations (such as snowpersons to be pc) you can't enjoy a  
good snow ball war....or any of those other snow type things)

lets see....the weather provides a good amount of variety (one minute it will be a nice  
50 and sunny...5 minutes later it will be 30 and snowing) which keeps people on there  
toes.....the people in "that warm habitable place" are missing the pure pleasure and  
joy of going to party where you HAVE TO DANCE, just to keep warm (vibe! vibE! viBE!  
vIBE! VIBE!) we even have large patches of grass in some cities.

we have more variety that you can imagine (multiple room parties doesn't hurt)  we have  
3 scenes as apposed to everyone elses 1, which gives us twice as much variety. (the  
ungerground, the disco-house scene, and the ravers all very distinct and seperate)

CHICAGO TRANSIT AUTOHRITY rules the earth - I can get ANYWHERE in chicago and the  
suburbs through this marvel....

who would want to buy beer anyhow?!? (not I, but you can buy it at any-point in time)

mid-westerners are a family...drawn together by our lack of a good beach, which  
incedently elminates troubles from beer-musciling beach types....why were else could  
you have a conversation with a punk, a ganbanger, myself, a bussniess man, and a llbean  
dressing person on a crowed subway train during rush hour -- withou being killed! (this  
happened the other day :) 


we have the a fair tax system (our property values are increasing faster than the rate  
of tax)

sports?!? let see umm well we get our fair share (can you go curling on either  
coast...I doubt it!)

we have lots of flat areas, with lostsa neat grasses and lostsa forset land....anything  
else would tend to get boring now wouldn't it?!?

oh we have the best pizza to (nothing beats chi-deep dish nothing)

-----

in other words...be proud of were you live, make the most of it beacuse EVERYWHERE has  
its advantages and disadvantages, we all know what each part of the us is like so why  
are we blabing about who is better? its like an 8th grade ego comeption around here....

LETS END THIS STUPID THREAD!

thanks,

--Kurt






From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 19:32:23 1993
From: vile@il.us.swissbank.com (Kurt Vile)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 21:33:00 -0600
Subject: Re: East and West
Status: 



I need to read all my mail before I post something *ung* *slap me*

sorry about me last post,

--Kurt

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 20:40:37 1993
From: andy@kingkong.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1993 20:40:13 -0800
Subject: Re: 
Status: 

I read what you wrote, and I re-read what I wrote.  I don't think I was
attacking you, in fact I think I was agreeing with a lot of what you
said, but if it felt like an attack when you read it, I am sorry.

>I should go back to where I've come from.
Only if you want to.  Wherever feels like home to you.

>PERHAPS I've just met the wrong people
Possibly so.  Or I've been lucky.  

>--- AND YES there are Raves in the Boston Area.
So Laura tells me.  For whatever reasons the entire scene remained
completely invisible to me all the time I was living there.

>Have you ever been in a small New England town in the autumn?  Most of
>the houses are different, and old, with basements and fireplaces and
>shingles on the roof.  And the meandering streets and stone fences,
>with rows of maple and oak trees that are bright bright shades of
>purple and red... I guess you've never been to New England though.

I lived in New England for 40 years, most of it in small towns.
I grew up in an old colonial house in which all the floors and walls
were just a little out of kilter (as they always are in old houses)
in a town with more maple trees than people.  I even tapped said
maple trees late in the winter for a few seasons for maple syrup.
New England towns are certainly beautiful, especially in the fall.
  
I always seemed to have trouble getting to know the people who
live in them though.  My problem, not theirs, and certainly not
yours. 



From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 21:12:16 1993
From: dz5401a@palestrina.anderson-lab.american.edu (Douglas Zimmerman)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 0:11:32 EDT
Subject: Re: East and West
Status: 

> 
> Will people PUHLEAZE stop this coast-bashing?  It's embarrasing to those
> of us here who have friends outside of California on this list who can 
> conclude nothing from it other than San Franciscans are complete snobs!
> I know we aren't!  It's not wrong to love where you live, I love it here
> and it's not been without living elsewhere, but I don't go around trying
> to cram that viewpoint into other people's faces because there are some
> facets of life out here I can see people not liking.  WE ARE NOT PERFECT.
> California is NOT MECCA. 
                ^^^^^^^^^^

Wait a second! its not! Hmmm...and after i had printed the T-Shirts!
:)

No, i got a chance to visit SF this summer. 

   i think SF is blessed with
1) a very strong, friendly, rave scene
2) A different personality of people then on the East Coast
   (more friendly, so i never felt like i had to be on-guard like
    i have to here in the E.C. cities)
3) A very nice transit system (try living in Hartford CT on mass
   transit)
4) sfravers :)

> 
>         Brian
> 

  but i think im going to unsubscribe also
(because to much mail for this un-school-serious-kid) 

the ravers on both coasts seem the same to me. 

but maybe i can come again and check the place out.

(my 2 cents thrown into a tin cup)

doug ))))) a b00mingg baSS for a l0ving race (((((
dz5401a@palestrina.anderson-lab.american.edu
remember, love follows the rave

From sfraves-owner  Wed Nov  3 21:18:58 1993
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 21:18:54 -0800
Subject: Forgetful?
Status: 


Sometimes this net reads like a bunch of old folk whose arthritis acts up
when the weather gets bad so they can't knit or chew tobacco, and all that's
left is gossip.  East coast vs. west coast, my *&%$&#$)(>.

Has this community forgotten the inner forces that got us together in 
the first place?  Some (formerly) people are trying to take away our 
future.  We got work to do.

peace,
alpha-10

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 00:00:26 1993
From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 00:00:10 -0800
Subject: Seeking friends from Oct. 29-30 FMR Bonny Dune
Status: 

sorry for taking up bandwidth for a personal message, but starchild, a friend  
of mine, is trying to get in touch with somebody he met at the FMR.  if you  
know debbie/jim/jennifer and they're not on the list, perhaps you could pass  
this word along.  danke. - robert

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Debbie, I met you & your friends at the Bonny Dunes rave last Friday, and had  
a *wonderful* time!  Thanxx so much...  We talked about getting together  
afterward, but never traded phone #s.  If you or your friends Jim & Jennifer  
read this, please get in touch.  Contact me @ this e-mail address, & I'll  
call you!  *** Starchild ***

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 02:07:51 1993
From: Sami Khoury <sk2000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 02:02:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Available now at Housewares...
Status: 

On Wed, 3 Nov 1993, Howard Berkey wrote:

> Housewares on Haight has two items I strongly recommend: Aphex Twin
> Tickets (with Moby, Orbital, Young American Primitive, DJ's, etc...)
> for $16 and the Exist Dance comp, "Transmitting from Heaven" for $17.

I'm a carless (careless?) student at Berkeley.  How do I get to Housewares
from a BART station?

Sami


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 05:15:16 1993
From: Harry Duran <hduran@UMDNJ.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 08:12:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Forgetful?
Status: 

> 
> 
> Sometimes this net reads like a bunch of old folk whose arthritis acts up
> when the weather gets bad so they can't knit or chew tobacco, and all that's
> left is gossip.  East coast vs. west coast, my *&%$&#$)(>.
> 
> Has this community forgotten the inner forces that got us together in 
> the first place?  Some (formerly) people are trying to take away our 
> future.  We got work to do.
> 
> peace,
> alpha-10
> 
Eh..... ????

wheres my chaw, gawdddameetttt!!! Randy you wippah-snappah iw oas gonna flame ya but i fahgat what tha thread waz....
Cussed cold weathah i cahnt ty p my joints is actin up
Wazzup!!?


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 07:14:38 1993
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 7:15:14 PST
Subject: South Bay Lunch Reminder
Status: 


-- 

Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
today's SFR South Bay Lunch ...

When: Thursday  
Time: 12.00 noon
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
  Northbound: Past San Antonio Road 
  Southbound: Past University Avenue 

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Park in the first
  carpark to your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll , behind the round baseball fence.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!




From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 07:26:15 1993
From: "goldenboy" <deb9@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:24:16 CST
Subject: Re: East and West
Status: 

Vitamin B Sayz:

>> California is NOT MECCA. 
>                ^^^^^^^^^^

CLEVELAND, OHIO IS !!!! 

if this place isn't heaven on earth, then my name isn't Elvis !!!

be careful...it's e-z to take thingz personally on the net...when it isn't 
meant to be or shouldn't be.  so excuse me whilst i go gaze out the window 
upon the outstanding weather that cleveland has to offer...35 degreez and 
cloudy...i think cleveland and cockroaches would be the only things left 
standing after a nuclear war...reassuring, ehh :)

hell...i'm just happy to be alive...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
goldenboy          
                          "Forget your name"
                        "Just close your eyes"
                             "Go insane"
                            

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 09:26:32 1993
From: howardb@enlil.premenos.sf.ca.us (Howard Berkey)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 09:22:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Available now at Housewares...
Status: 

> 
> On Wed, 3 Nov 1993, Howard Berkey wrote:
> 
> > Housewares on Haight has two items I strongly recommend: Aphex Twin
> > Tickets (with Moby, Orbital, Young American Primitive, DJ's, etc...)
> > for $16 and the Exist Dance comp, "Transmitting from Heaven" for $17.
> 
> I'm a carless (careless?) student at Berkeley.  How do I get to Housewares
> from a BART station?
> 

Get off at any of the Market st. stops (I prefer not to use Civic
Center), and catch one of the (several) MUNI buses that go up Haight.
They all go by Housewares, which will be on the right side of the
street.

-H-


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 09:57:19 1993
From: plunkett@uclink.berkeley.edu (Matthew James Plunkett)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 09:48:15 -0800
Subject: GHB?
Status: 

The SF Comical this morn insinuated River Phoenix died from an od
of gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid.  Said it's the latest craze in LA.  One
anonymous Klubber said "Ive never been so high in my life."  This article
also called mdma a "hallucinogenic amphetamine" so they really don't know
what the hell is up to start with.
BUT, my point was, is this some fad unbeknownst to me?  I thought it was
just one of the many things to be found in smart drinks.  Anyone tried it
?

Thanks!
matt

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 09:57:34 1993
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 12:57:30 EST
Subject: I think you're all beautiful
Status: 


I love the people on both coasts. You're all very special and
wonderful in your own way.

All places have their own character and their own special attractions.
Some places we may consider ugly or frightening; those places need the
most love of all.

Speaking of needs, if one feels the need to say "my space is better
than your space," where does that need come from? What particular
internal drives cause this? Understanding this might help one
understand better ways to connect with others.

See you at YSH :)

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 10:33:42 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:33:37 PST
Subject: ComeUnity Returns!
Status: 


I can only speak for the last 3 hours, but from my unaltered POV,
ComeUnity rocked!  It was as though it never went away.  I would have
prefered the front room as a chill space over the basement, but I didn't 
do much chilling anyway.  Garth gave me a good workout, not quite as
consistent and aggressive as at the FMR, but pretty damn powerful
nonetheless.  The in-house lighting effects weren't used all that much, 
defering to the excellent double screen Synergy display.  All in all,
no surprises, just another wonderful morning for the SF house family.  
Thanx Malachy, for bringing it back. :-)

- leg of eel 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 10:41:58 1993
From: "Mike Romo*" <mike_romo*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 4 Nov 1993 10:31:46 -0800
Subject: Come Unity Unified
Status: 

                      Subject:                              Time:  10:22 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Come Unity Unified                    Date:  11/4/93
Well, after digging through the sort of innane East vs. West arguments, I just
wanted to say a resounding "hello" to everyone who went to Come/Unity (and to
all of you who didn't make it--"hello!")...
that party is the absolute model on what the scene should be like.  Fantastic
vibe (a lot of my friends who were totally clean (like myself) noted that they
felt like they were on e--now THAT'S a good party) and Ripping music.  Simon (I
thought) was outta control.  When I left at three Jeno was in his element,
throbbing the crowd to mindless submission....or just fantastic dancing.  Great
crowd...

Nothing beats Come/Unity.  For all of you who missed it, please make it the
next time (fingers crossed!)---paying five bucks for anything else seem
ludicrous...

only complaint?  Well, like Pete said, "Man, the ambient room is so ambient,
it's all I can hear!"  I thought it was about as ambient as World War II...

Ripping good time.  Well worth my bleary (but refreshed!) head...

take care all.  You know, the east/west thing did bring out a lot of good
things--it made people tell us about their homes.  I thought that was really
cool.  The quote about it's not where you are, but who you are with really is
quite perfect.  I am glad all of us feel so strongly about where we live and
dance.  I was a bit concerned that people were asking Sue to leave
California--no need for that, obviously.  If she don't like it, she don't like
it!  No problem.  A lot of people don't like California.  That's their trip.  I
enjoy it immensely, but I grew up in the City--but I love visiting New York
when I can.  

I feel like typing more, but I have to get back to work.

Love the morning, feel the headache.

mike



From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 10:48:22 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 09:33:18 PST
Subject: Re: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 

I third or fourth the "Don't unsub Laura", unless I missed one I thought
Howards mail was tactful and made good points and us west-coasters are
just being defensive after Sue's harsh critisizm.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 10:57:29 1993
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:46:53 PST
Subject: Re:  School choice: long, non-rave
Status: 

Yes, mail it.  My grandfather used to say that our family motto was
"It's usualy better to have something and not want it than to want
something and not have it."  I have found this to be true, though I
have discovered that the actual Guthrie family motto as printed on
the crest of the blazen of arms is Sto Pro Veritate, "I stand for truth."
Don't let the whiners sway you.  I get a lot of mail, work, and don't
have a filter installed and I have no problem hitting "d" when I don't
want to read something.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 11:03:26 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 11:03:13 PST
Subject: coastal wars
Status: 


> --- I DID NOT START THIS COAST WARS DISCUSSION.  Someone out there
> called my list biased, unfair and immature, and implied I started the
> whole thing.  Well, I was responding to what I saw as a totally
> negative and wrong list of everything that was wrong about the east
> coast by Geoff White. And he was responding to Laura, who complained
> about a comment by Michael W. who said that sfravers are a "breed
> apart from east-coast counterparts".  I was just giving the reasons
> why I love the east coast.

OK, I realize that when you have 20 people participating in a discussion,
it's easy to mix up who said what.  For the record, I *never* said that
sfravers were a "breed apart from east-coast counterparts".  In fact, 
*everything* I've said has implied exactly the opposite.

Second, this "flame war" seems really lame in my opinion.  90% of it (or at
least 90% if what ended up getting posted to the list) seemed like it was
being discussed in a reasonably mature manner.  You listed 12 reasons why
you prefered the east over the west, and a bunch of people calmly challenged
your reasons.  It didn't turn into a flame war until you and Laura went on
the defensive and started taking everything personally.



From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 11:03:31 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 11:01:40 PST
Subject:  Available now at Housewares...
Status: 

>> if you like Eden Transmission's "I'm So High" you'll like the remix,
>> apparently done at Casa Twitch by Mike himself
>The Up Above The World track on the Exist Dance CD is their original version.
>The UVC remix of this track is on Twitch CD #8.

i think you guys are talking about two different things... "i'm so
high" on the Transmitting From Heaven CD is not a remix, just an edit.
mike gets credit for the edit inside the CD booklet.

up above the world is as mike described, of course.

pedantically/j/yours

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 11:18:49 1993
From: "Mike Romo*" <mike_romo*@quickmail.apple.com>
Date: 4 Nov 1993 10:47:01 -0800
Subject: GH B(S)
Status: 

                      Subject:                              Time:  10:39 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         GH B(S)                               Date:  11/4/93
GHB is a high concentration of some amino acid(s).  It was first used by body
builders, but they discovered that if they took a lot of this salty liquid
(tastes a lot like sweat) they got pretty high.  (According to the paper
(Chron) it was a sleep supplement, meaning body builders using steroids
couldn't sleep so they took GHB and it chilled them out so they could sleep
(thanks to Zak for his reporting)...
I have tried it, and it's kinda weak, especially compared to other things. 
It's a liquid, and it hits you fast--a good analogy was it was like being drunk
without the slurring of the speech or the burping.  Fucking hard to dance to
(at least at F/X with that skate ramp floor)...  I really really really doubt
anyone could die from it, unless they took a whole helluva lot (yukky), and the
thing is, before you took that much, you would probably puke, you beging to
feel nauseous and dizzy ANYWAY....I bet you River Phoenix mixed it with
something else.  
GHB is pleasant, but you would have to go out of your way (IMHO) to kill
yourself on it.

And that anonymous klubber probably hasn't been THAT high, then.  It's cool,
but not too big of a deal...

Mike (trying to be clean for awhile--I felt fantastic at C/U!!) RRRR

All this negative press is bad for GHB.  It's a cool, natural drug, and lots of
people like it.  I hope this doesn't make the press/feds go nutso on it.  



From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 11:18:57 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 11:18:46 PST
Subject: where's housewares
Status: 


> Get off at any of the Market st. stops (I prefer not to use Civic
> Center), and catch one of the (several) MUNI buses that go up Haight.
> They all go by Housewares, which will be on the right side of the
> street.

More specifically, Housewares is on Haight between Buena Vista and Masonic.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 11:42:10 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 11:42:00 PST
Subject: coastal wars
Status: 

First, I apologize for misattributing the "breed apart" comment.  I'm
very sorry.

You say " it didn't turn into a flame war until you and laura went on
the defensive and started takign everything personally".

well, i beg your pardon, but look at some quotes of mail i've
received.  Names not included because some of it is from personal maiil.
--------------------------

> Don't like it? get the fuck out.  stop polluting us, we don't want
you here anyway.

>Well Sue, you've unleeshed my very biased, unfair, immature (but hey you
were first, right?) "Why California Is Better Than Everywhere Else
List".

>5) ----I will not make a people comparparison parody to Sue's origional
VERY stereotyped, mean, bitter, untrue, banter about super market clerks (?)
and Californians and what not.  It tells a lot, though.  Even though, 
East Coasters are just as easy to make mean-spirited stereotypes of.

>9)Cali and the west has hella-character.  That's why everyone else always
jealously talks shit (see Sue's origional post).  Again, I refuse to

>Oh please shut the fuck up.  You have no clue what you're talking
about ... just go away please.

>I would expect that from an East Coaster.  You've obviously incorporated
some racist attitudes (only to be expected, really).

----------------
So I'm being "defensive" huh?  These are all clearly personal
atttacks.  Far from "calmly challenging" my reasons.  And that's just
a sampling!  For the record, I've received 11 personal letters flaming
me with various degrees of rudeness (and also 2 very nice letters.)

(Of course, since women who stand up for themselves are frequently
labeled "defensive" by men, I'm used to this by now.)

Sue








From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 11:50:25 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 12:50:02 -0700
Subject:  Available now at Housewares... -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
for $16 and the Exist Dance comp, "Transmitting from Heaven" for $17.
The ED comp is really, really good.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you're looking for another good compilation check out Reactivate 8
by React records.  The first track is by Country and Western and it
is hot!  I forget the name, though.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 12:37:56 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 12:35:17 PST
Subject: Available now at Housewares... -Reply
Status: 

>If you're looking for another good compilation check out Reactivate 8
>by React records.  The first track is by Country and Western and it
>is hot!  I forget the name, though.

undoubtedly this is "positive energy"

/j/



From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 12:39:24 1993
From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 12:39:46 PST
Subject: Re: GH B(S)
Status: 

Mike Romo* wrote:

(stuff deleted)

> (at least at F/X with that skate ramp floor)...  I really really really doubt
> anyone could die from it, unless they took a whole helluva lot (yukky), and the
> thing is, before you took that much, you would probably puke, you beging to
> feel nauseous and dizzy ANYWAY....I bet you River Phoenix mixed it with
> something else.  
> GHB is pleasant, but you would have to go out of your way (IMHO) to kill
> yourself on it.

GHB was extremely popular in the LA scene for awhile last year, and from what 
I've seen it's fairly safe (although I don't see it's attraction).  There were, 
however, at least two instances of people having seizures and collapsing, 
leading to hospitalization. One person supposedly died, but I can't confirm 
that.  I can confirm the hopitalizations.  The important factor in these cases 
was that GHB was ued in combination with other drugs. The big no-no,from what 
I understand, is using GHB with alcohol.  Crystal was also involved in one 
of the cases.

Basically, any drug can be relatively safe _if used reponsibly_.

Regarding River Phoenix, according to the LA times this morning, the 
toxicology reports won't be available for 6-8 weeks.  Reports of cocaine, 
valium, PCP laced joints, ecstacy, and GHB arejut hearsay until then.

Joe

----------(Joe Rice)--------------------------(they entered the vortex)--------
-----(ambient@netcom.com)------------------(and the dreams became reality)-----
     

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 12:42:17 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 12:42:06 PST
Subject: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 

--> I third or fourth the "Don't unsub Laura", unless I missed one I
--> thought Howards mail was tactful and made good points and us
--> west-coasters are just being defensive after Sue's harsh
--> critisizm.

--> -Mark

I find this ironic because I was being defensive after YOUR harsh
criticism.

Sue

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 12:48:56 1993
From: raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 12:48:46 PST
Subject: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 

Shit, I screwed up again.  Its hard to keep track of whats going on
here when I have received over _90_ messages.

I mistakenly thought the MArk Guthrie was the person who posted about
how the east coast sucks.  I was wrong,  it was Geoff White.  My "I
love the east coast" post was in direct reaction to that "east coast
sucks" post.

--> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 12:42:06 PST From: raisty (Sue Raisty)

--> --> I third or fourth the "Don't unsub Laura", unless I missed one
--> I --> thought Howards mail was tactful and made good points and us
--> --> west-coasters are just being defensive after Sue's harsh -->
--> critisizm.

--> --> -Mark

--> I find this ironic because I was being defensive after YOUR harsh
--> criticism.

--> Sue


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:00:28 1993
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 12:55:06 PST
Subject: The Scene's not dead (yet) !
Status: 

> that party is the absolute model on what the scene should be like.

AMEN! Thanks Mal, you really outdid yourself,(although I half expected as much)
This is one of those parties when you have almost given up hope on the scene
and afterward you say "damn, well maybe...."
It was great to see so many "old-timeers" people who hadf stopped going out
who came out to Come-Unity partly to see/be with Mal and support his parties,
partly because they remembered what the old Come-Unities were like.  I saw some
"newbies", newborn Rave Goddesses(tm) like Joy who Tranced the entire night, this was her first Come-Unity and it was a BLAST!

> Fantastic
> vibe (a lot of my friends who were totally clean (like myself) noted that they
> felt like they were on e--now THAT'S a good party) and Ripping music. 
YES!!! around 5:30 when Garth really ripped into his set, I felt that familiar
"on fire" sensation and I had not partaken of anything stronger then a little
rasta assist :)
> 
> Nothing beats Come/Unity.  For all of you who missed it, please make it the
> next time (fingers crossed!)---paying five bucks for anything else seem
> ludicrous...

Yes and If you want offer more then just $5, Mal could use the money and 
if he asked for $15 at the door it would still be a deal!

For me it took a while for this Come-Unity to really get rolling
but when it did BOY! I really got my TRANCE-FIX last night during Garth's
set which started sorta discoy (I'm not too partial to this) but then moved into
some REAL HOUSE MUSIC (which I love, wailing divas and all) he then tranced us
but still stayed funky.  I remember looking around me in the early morning
light and seeing FAMILY.  There were a few tweekers there but not overly so,
and the attitude that was in the room withered when confronted with the
relentlessness of the VIBE! My luv-phasers were a little rusty but by the
middle of Jeno's set they were firing with the strength and precision
of a year ago.

Mal say's these are going to be MONTHLY parties (at least!) so  we can look 
forward to them.  I know he is doing these parties because he feels that the 
scene needs them and I agree.  I think we have an oppertunity to gather
momentum now starting with the last FMR, Come-Unity, let's make sure YSH and
the upcomming Liquid Air parties are successful and heavy with the Vibe.

There is a Wicked on Nov 13 and Mody/Orbital/Aphex Twin the following day
followed by a fanother FMR and a C4? somewhere? Not to mention John Lee's
friday party which will be F.A.T.!

Who says we can't singlehandedly transform the scene?


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:05:22 1993
From: vivianm@src.dec.com
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 93 13:05:18 -0800
Subject: Re: coastal wars
Status: 




>Second, this "flame war" seems really lame in my opinion.  90% of it (or at
>least 90% if what ended up getting posted to the list) seemed like it was
>being discussed in a reasonably mature manner.  You listed 12 reasons why
>you prefered the east over the west, and a bunch of people calmly challenged
>your reasons.  It didn't turn into a flame war until you and Laura went on
>the defensive and started taking everything personally.

I agree, but we did not exactly know until she told us, that Sue 
was recieving private email messages telling her that if she didn't 
like CA she should leave.  I don't exactly think that was an excusable 
thing to say to her being that she was just stating her opinion like 
the rest of us.  I thought it was fun to participate in the discussion 
of why I like California. Unfortuntely people seem to take things 
personally (as I can be accused of doing in the past) and start flaming, 
as people often will.  I will be the first to apologize if my "jumping 
on the bandwagon upset anyone".  I like to think that sfraves is 
an open forum and a bit more personal than any other newsgroup on 
the net. I feel like I can post my opinion more openly and freely 
since I do know quite a few of the people that post, unlike other 
newsgroups.  To me sfraves is like talking to a bunch of friends 
all at once. And not having to repeat yourself over and over like 
you would if you were talking to someone face to face.  
Does anyone else feel this way, or am I just rambling. 


:-)

vivianm




From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:07:26 1993
From: (Chris.Hilker) <cspot@cats.ucsc.edu>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 93 13:07:21 +45722724
Subject: Re: Available now at Housewares... 
Status: 

Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com> writes:

>>The Up Above The World track on the Exist Dance CD is their original version.
>>The UVC remix of this track is on Twitch CD #8.

>up above the world is as mike described, of course.

>pedantically/j/yours

As long as we're being pedantic, how come the track is called "Unleashed in
the East" on the Twitch CD and "Straight Up Caffiene" on TfH? The flyer
Exist Dance sent me says that there's a track called "Unleashed..." on the
b-side of the "Caffiene" 12". Did Kandel and company pull a title switch on
you?

C.

--
(chris.hilker) cspot@cats.ucsc.edu

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:12:58 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 13:11:03 PST
Subject: Available now at Housewares... 
Status: 

chris hilker pedantically asks:

>As long as we're being pedantic, how come the track is called "Unleashed in
>the East" on the Twitch CD and "Straight Up Caffiene" on TfH? The flyer
>Exist Dance sent me says that there's a track called "Unleashed..." on the
>b-side of the "Caffiene" 12". Did Kandel and company pull a title switch on
>you?

the track listing for the Up Above The World 12" single (Exist Dance
Records ED 09):

	Unleashed In The East
	Straight Up Caffeine
	Bonus Trip

UitE and SUC sound remarkably similar - in fact they are the same song
in two different incarnations (Tom Chasteen mix and Mike Kandel mix).
We didn't specifically remix one particular version, since they both
sound the same.  So we got to pick which title we wanted to use.  For
my money (and I think I'm speaking for all of the UVC here),
"Unleashed In The East" is a great title; "Straight Up Caffeine" is a
less great one.

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:18:15 1993
From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 13:18:04 PST
Subject: Re:  coastal wars
Status: 


> > Don't like it? get the fuck out.  stop polluting us, we don't want
> you here anyway.
> 
> >Oh please shut the fuck up.  You have no clue what you're talking
> about ... just go away please.
> 
> >I would expect that from an East Coaster.  You've obviously incorporated
> some racist attitudes (only to be expected, really).
Geez, sfraves sure has gone downhill lately, hasn't it?  I don't think I've
*ever* seen any mail on sfraves that has been this rude.  It would be rather
interesting to see if whoever sent this mail would admit it to the list and
attempt to defend what they said (though I doubt this would happen).

> ----------------
> So I'm being "defensive" huh?  These are all clearly personal
> atttacks.  Far from "calmly challenging" my reasons.  And that's just
> a sampling!  For the record, I've received 11 personal letters flaming
> me with various degrees of rudeness (and also 2 very nice letters.)
Look at it from my (or any other sfraver's) point of view.  No one else has
seen your personal mail, so it simply appeared that for no apparent reason
you started sending what seemed to be unnecessarily defensive mail to the list.

> (Of course, since women who stand up for themselves are frequently
> labeled "defensive" by men, I'm used to this by now.)
Anyone who stands up for themselves is "defensive".  That's sort-of what
"defensive" means, dig?


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:33:50 1993
From: Jessica Grace Wing <she@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 13:33:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Delusions of Grandeur TONITE!
Status: 

Delusions of Grandeur is a weekly party put on every Thursday at
1015 Folsom by the Hardkisses.  I've been the last few times and it's
been really fun!  Last week was a bit mellow, but the week before
the energy was amazing -- people were cheering and yelling, hands
in the air, etc.  The music is also really good -- Scott 'n' Robbie 
Hardkiss and Jon Williams, plus guest DJ's sometimes.  And the
visuals by Synergy are AMAZING... I can't even describe it but
I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about!!!

The party starts at 10, ambient music 'till midnight, then dancing
'till 5 or 6.  Costs $5 and is a great alternative to YSH.

BY the way, the sound system in that big room with the towers of
speaker is the best thing I have ever heard in my LIFE!!  

Love 'n' pine-nuts -- JESSICA

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:49:36 1993
From: LUKEY@WordPerfect.com
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 14:29:27 -0700
Subject:  Available now at Housewares... -Reply -Reply
Status: 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>If you're looking for another good compilation check out Reactivate 8
>by React records.  The first track is by Country and Western and it
>is hot!  I forget the name, though.

undoubtedly this is "positive energy"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Nope.  I know that song, and it's not "positive energy".  It's a more trancy
song; doesn't have much of a house feel.  But, speaking of "positive
energy", does anyone know where I can find that on CD?  If it's on any
kind of compilation that's cool.  Also, does Country and Western have a
full length album?


From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:51:49 1993
From: amaranth@cats.ucsc.edu
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 13:51:41 -0800
Subject: Re: GH B(S)
Status: 

----
GHB is a high concentration of some amino acid(s).  It was first used by body
builders, but they discovered that if they took a lot of this salty liquid
(tastes a lot like sweat) they got pretty high.  (According to the paper
(Chron) it was a sleep supplement
 
   --stuff deleted--

It's a liquid, and it hits you fast--a good analogy was it was like being drunk
without the slurring of the speech or the burping.  Fucking hard to dance to
(at least at F/X with that skate ramp floor)...  I really really really doubt
anyone could die from it, unless they took a whole helluva lot (yukky), and the
thing is, before you took that much, you would probably puke, you beging to
feel nauseous and dizzy ANYWAY....I bet you River Phoenix mixed it with
something else.

-----

  I was told that GHB has very negative effects when mixed with alcohol (i.e.
death).  Could this have been what happened to River Phoenix?  I've seen it 
around a couple times at raves, but only in southern California, and the guys
selling it would usually give out a little warning not to mix it with anything
else..
 
  -K.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:52:38 1993
From: Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 13:50:49 PST
Subject: Delusions of Grandeur TONITE!
Status: 

>Delusions of Grandeur is a weekly party put on every Thursday at
>1015 Folsom by the Hardkisses.

*bzzzt* sorry, thanks for playing.

according to gavin hardkiss, who i ran into last night (don't worry, i
scraped him off the grille and he's ok now) the party is NOT happening
tonight.

Jon Drukman                                         jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:53:22 1993
From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 13:54:54 PST
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
Status: 


Ahhh...Come/Unity, besides being a great party, was a great place
for flyers, and this month is taking shape rather nicely.  This weekend,
Groove Kitchen looks mighty tasty, with Mark Farina, Doc Martin
and Markie, and you can also hang out before at the Blue Cube House,
which is kindly offering up some tunes.


Top Ten Rejected Names for Groove Kitchen/Boogie Buffet :)

10. CyberLunch
 9. International House of House
 8. Garth's Eats
 7. Jeno's Pizza
 6. Rhythm Wok
 5. Soul Brunch
 4. Jack in the Box
 3. McDisco's
 2. Funka-delicatessen
 1. Boogie King


*****************************************************************************
UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA                     	    Updated: 11.04.93
*****************************************************************************

Friday, November 5th - ?
	Markie Mark and James
	415.979.8600

Saturday, November 6th - Party at the Blue Cube House 9pm-???	
        dance space with trance till 2am 
        2am roll out the carpet and go ambient 
        crash room with Middle Eastern music
	162 28th Street @ Church (162 is BEHIND 160) 
        a residential neighborhood so be cool - no hangin out on the street!
        email resonate@netcom.com for info

Saturday, November 6th - Groove Kitchen 
	Mark Farina  Doc Martin  Markie Mark
	visuals by Pure & Synergy
	520 4th St, SF		415.267.3932

Saturday, November 6th - Roots
	Christophe  Carlos  Olivier
	live techno by Gods of the Groove/live ambient by Manny
	702.353.6098	916.478.8787

Friday, November 12th - Chez Groove 
	Join us for an intimate evening of progressive house and very
	deep trance...
	jon d, lee, tony, doran, jamie (universe uk)
	$10 all night long in a totally fresh space 
	brought to you by your friends at home - audio by sound vision
	415.979.8519

Saturday, November 13th - Wicked 
	Jeno  Garth  Markie  Thomas
	1015 Folsom, 21+, $3 off before midnight
	415.512.5713

Saturday, November 13th (daytime)- Universe 2000 
	DJs Carlos, Jonathan, Liquid, Dave Alga.
	10AM-7PM At the Cow Palace, San Francisco
	Mortal Kombat Competition, Interactive Multimedia, blah blah
	Advance tickets (BASS) $12.50	Day of Event $16.50
	415 979-4543   [pc: yow. big flyer warning]

Sunday, November 14th - See the Light tour w/Moby, Orbital, Aphex Twin
	Also: Young American Primitive, Vapour Space 
	DJs Tim (Utah Saints), Jonah, Jeno, Alex
	All ages, doors at 7pm, $15 in advance.
	Tix at Housewares, BPM, Makato, Primal, Upstairs Rec, Underground Rec.
	Galleria (101 Henry Adams), SF 
	415.241.1560

Wednesday, November 17th - bjork, ultramarine @ the Warfield, SF. 

Saturday, November 20th - Liquid Air sees the light of day
	DJs Jon D, Lee An and guests	Audio by SoundVision
	1pm-5pm	 415.487.8497	Donations taken

Saturday, November 20th - Energy  
	live: deee-lite & alphabet soup.
	Doc Martin  Garth  Simon  Jeno  Spun  Ghost  
		Carlos  Alphie  Markie Mark.
	body piercing, tattooing, body painting, fruit and salad bar, 
	415 995-4787. 18+ til 2am. 21+ after.
	520 4th street (the Trocadero)

Saturday, November 20th - Get Down Get Down Get Down Get Down Get Down
	Garth  Thomas  Markie Mark  Carlos  Rick Preston
	   Harry Who  Tara  Jeno
	$15 or $10 w/canned goods
	415.974.4320	510.464.4525	408.236.2253

Saturday, November 20th - Basics in Seattle
	Donald Glaude  Josh  Spun  Jon Williams  Doran  Tony
	There may be a bus leaving from SF on Friday evening and returning
	early Monday morning.  The price, including the party admission,
	would be $45.
	Leave message at 415.905.9629 if interested.

Friday, November 26th - Tribal Funk
	Carlos	Tony  Donald Glaude  DJ Utopia
	Live - The Darwin Chamber w/The SF Unity Crew
	$10 before 12am w/can of food for the homeless
	415.905.4476

Saturday, November 27th - Origin - 415.905.8831


Sometime in November - Dandelion 415.267.6193
	
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        People who want to send money, cards and other goodwill 
	thoughts to Malachy can make checks payable to the:
                M. O'Brien Healing Fund
                1388 Haight st #117
                San Francisco CA. 94112
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be-AT INFO LINE: 415-626-4087. 
The Elmo line - (415) 884-ABCD
Ameba - 415-750-9368
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies - whether or not they count as real "raves" is 
debatable, but they were advertised by flyers and the music could be
good. If anyone can provide reviews of them, i.e., their appropriateness 
in being on the list, let me know.  Also let me know when any of them stop...

---Thursday------------------------------------------------------------------

SFR South Bay Lunch - noon at Greer Park in Palo Alto.  
	e-mail larryc@netcom.com for directions.
YOUR SISTERS' HOUSE - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-765-7670
	[11/4  - Nadeeah, Tara, Dani]
	[11/11 - Charlotte, Susan, Polly Wog]
	[11/18 - DRC, Jan Cooley, w/sisters neona leona, mona truder(?)]
Deep Space - 200 N. 1st Street, SJ - 21+ - Rick Preston, others
Universal Groove - Carlos, Ghost, Dutch, Dave Alga
	Thunder Bay, Berk.  9pm-5am, $5.  415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax - Acid Jazz w/Julius Papp (San Jose)
Eclipse - 2520 Camino Diablo, Walnut Creek. open till 4, 18+
Delusions of Grandeur - Jon Williams, Robbie & Scott Hardkiss.	Ambience 
	by SpaceTime Continuum.  Visuals by Synergy.  10pm - 6am, 1015 Folsom. 
The Blue Room - 801 K st. Sacramento 21+ no cover before 10 pm
Davoud - 1890 Arden Way Sacramento (the "Rage")  18+  (916)484-4062

---Friday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Mission Rock - guest DJs on patio, Alex & Kevin downstairs 
	817 China Basin - $5 - 21+
Life - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
Corduroy City - $5 - 11-6am - 415.974.9715
	[11/5 - John Howard, Simon, Mark Farina]
Dig! - Cleo's Cafe @ Haight & Pierce. Acid Jazz & deep house.
	6pm-?, no cover, all ages.
Hell's Kitchen - DJs Digit & Bobby T - 21+, $2 b4 11, $5 after.  375 1st St.

---Saturday------------------------------------------------------------------

Lost It - Steve Mitchel, Dutch, Richie, La Paix - 2am-noon - $5 - DNA Lounge
Housing Project - 6am-2pm - DJ Dani & guests - End Up 401 6th @ Harrison, 21+ 
	[might be nighttime now -dc]
Deep House Sessions at the Groove Station  1141 Polk St  6-9 pm  FREE
Cornbread - acid jazz, house - 4pm-8pm - cleo's, 698 Haight  415.487.6246
Funky Underground - Dimensions, S 1st St, San Jose 408.920.1762
Rhythm - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, Markie - 177 Townsend - 21+ - 415-281-3344
Diverse City - Jon Williams, La Paix, guests - $5 b4/11 - 415-469-2027
Aurgasm - on hold - collective T.A.Z. - 415.974.9363

---Sunday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Boogie Buffet - 1015 Folsom - 7am-3pm - 415-979-8845
Cleo's Cafe - Haight & Pierce - informal YSH gathering - 2pm-8pm - free!
Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Spundae - various guest DJs - 9pm-5am, 21+, $5 b4 12 - 55 Natoma  
Drift - the ambient club - spike's, 8th & Minna, 10 till 2 am
Tranceformation - 201 9th @ Howard - $3, 21+ - 415-267-6189
Punch Drunk - Cal's, 2001 Union St @ Buchanan - 6pm - 415-776-7036
Sunday Joy - 8th & Kirkham (in the Sunset) - 2pm-7pm - $2

---Monday--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pepper.  Deep House. Nickie's, 460 Haight, 10-2AM, $3, 21+. 415.435.8627
Mushroom Jazz - acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is, Alex, Kevin
	$3, 9pm-3am.  Club Oasis, 278 11th St, 21+. 415-905-8811
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@Montgomery) in San Jose.

---Tuesday-------------------------------------------------------------------

Together - Simon, Garth, guests - 201 9th @ Howard  415-979-8825
Jus' Pucker - House, Funk, Disco - the Bird Cage, 4822 Telegraph. 9pm-2am, 21+.

---Wednesday-----------------------------------------------------------------

Tilt - nadeeah, jan cooley, aaron o., david harness, dani, larry reed.
	11pm-5am, 21+.  540 Howard (DV8).  415.957.1730	
Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X)  408.236.3787
Java - 2730 Harrison @ 16th - 18+, $6 - 415.905.6443
7up - $5 w/recyclable - 510-505-8841

---Connection 2 Tapes--------------------------------------------------------
4 cassettes >> 6 hours >> complete live house from SFR's party in March
DJs: Moonpup, Scott Hardkiss, Jon Drukman, Lee and Blurrr 
contact Bob Ramstad (rave-tapes%groovy@us.oracle.com) 
$15 + $5 shipping, $5 of which goes to the Malachy O'Brien healing fund 

---RADIO SHOWS---------------------------------------------------------------
Friday night - midnite-3:30am - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
        (mixing from 12-1, other tasty electreats from 1-3:30am)
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, 510-649-0351 and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe/uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

(type 'u' in place of the '*' - i've taken out the 'u' so this message
 passes thru majordomo's filter)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:59:48 1993
From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 13:59:14 -0800
Subject: Re: ENOUGH ALREADY
Status: 

On Nov 4, 12:42pm, Sue quoted Mark as saying:
} --> I third or fourth the "Don't unsub Laura", unless I missed one I
} --> thought Howards mail was tactful and made good points and us
} --> west-coasters are just being defensive after Sue's harsh
} --> critisizm.

} I find this ironic because I was being defensive after YOUR harsh
} criticism.

I think the lesson here is that we need to look at this from more
angles than just the CA-centered perspective or the East Coast
perspective or what not.  A lot of things became clear when I
considered the hypothetical situation where I posted a list to
ne-raves of why I live in California and not on the east coast - I
could FULLY expect to be flamed to pieces, probably a lot worse than
people flamed Sue.  Or I could post to SE-Raves saying how I'd never
go to a rave in Florida because I'd be afraid of being mistaken for a
German tourist, or post to NW-raves saying I'd never go to a Seattle
rave because I don't own any plaid, etc etc.
 
So, please, let's lift our mouths out of the muck and go on?

How was the 21-- policy at C/U?

	Brian

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 14:08:12 1993
From: hart@ntmtv.com (Chris Hart)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 16:23:50 PST
Subject: Re: School choice: long, non-rave
Status: 


Hey,

Thanks dana, for that open mind...but on this:->


is the person who posts the original post to blame for the flame war
or all the people who reply to the list?
---------

ABSOLUTELY NOT, you (we) are all still responsible for your (our) OWN
actions...


BTW, I've been meaning to ask where your .sig came from, this->

"Orange County? That's Orwellian. Like Hitler with sunshine."


"...ya know I go way back
 to cool nuts, phat 'stangs and cadillacs"

*

From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 14:14:02 1993
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 14:13:55 PST
Subject: coastal piss
Status: 

Growing up in the NY Metropolitan area, the geography wars I heard
mostly revolved around which part of New York you were from.   Forget
about even *trying* to be cool if you were from New Jersey or Long 
Island.    It all seems so old and pointless, just like nationalism 
and racism.  I guess it's all just part of the territorial nature of 
humans, who are nothing more than stupid animals who, once having 
sprayed their territory with piss, feel threatened when some other 
stupid animal exhudes even the slightest scent of antagonism toward 
their turf.  Someday, hopefully, people will spend more energy learning
how to take pride in themselves instead of their spacetime coordinates.

ObRave: Groove Kitchen at the Troc, shitty sound and all, should
be an improvement over 174 King St.  I'll be arriving late, hopefully
for Markie's set, but Doc Martin or Mark Farina should also be good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Thu Nov  4 14:43:21 1993
From: Gioni Pasquinelli <pasque@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 14:26:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C/U  
Status: 

	
How about making the next C/U for us younger folks?

Gioni Pasquinelli
pasque@hamlet.ucdavis.edu      



