From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 04:17:54 1994
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From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Message-Id: <199404011218.EAA14119@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Your Sister's House
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 04:18:42 -0800 (PST)
Cc: socal-raves@ucsd.edu, izzy4lm@mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Janelle Wong),
        usuz@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (suzy plotkin),
        brians@extol.sj.unisys.com (brian sassone), bananne@cyborganic.com,
        lisha@soda.berkeley.edu, stevec@violet.berkeley.edu,
        a540mtg@pic.asucla.edu
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Wow, well...I just got home and I wanted to get this out right now . I have 
always been biased about hte quality of the parties that the sisters put
on, but they outdid themselves tonight, the rest did them SO much good.

The site (which I understand just might be a semi-regular location for them)
was a warehouse in the "industrial wasteland" section of SF (I dunno, do we
call this China Basin?), and was an awesome display - it is normally the
humble abode for six people, who all live in little nooks and crannies way
up above...like treehouses, but gone completely mad...a huge playground of
ladders and platforms and...wow...and the sisters spruced it up (which didn't
even need decoration) with trees (YES trees), flowers, great projections
(at least at first), and a huge glowing YSH sign.

Ethan's sound system was in full effect, busting out Autechre when I arrived
(consult the IDM list if you are not familiar with this band (: ). As I 
unserstand it, Ethan's sound system (or a piece of it_) took a nasty crash,
ruining two hundred dollars worth of records (HIS records) as well as 
damaging his turntable. Thank you very much, Ethan, for the use of your
beautiful sound system, and I am very sorry about the accident. :( And
Bryce, you are wonderful for going home to get your turntable.

Susan started off the evening with some acidy dubby tribal funk house (that's
me, inventing those labels...) while the discussion group focused on the 
medical uses of marijuana - Pebbles, the panelist, was apparently involved in
a court case or is still involved in one, regarding her rights to use the
herb medicinally. She freaked me out, but she has a wonderful collection of
political buttons and bumper stickers out for display (ex: "The difference
between Bush and God is that God doesn't think he is Bush")...satisfied the
political scientist in me, anyway.

Tara took over after 90 minutes from Susan...I thought it would be funk, down
and dirty...but the first 30 minutes or so weren't that at all...once I pointed
it out to Bryce that I thought we would hear funk from her...she started 
cranking the funk. She eventually ended with some hilariously bitchy house
diva tune that she said was her favorite track, only costing her 99 cents. It
put her in a great mood, and all throughout my set she would sneak up behind
me and say, "you go, girl!".

By this point, my fingertips were numb and I was thrust behind the wheels of
steel. :) I got to play my new kitschy ragtime house record followed by what
I thought was today's great find at the vinyl solution in san mateo - ye ke ye
ke by Mory Kante...a great cheesy Steve Masters classic - sorry if you had to
suffer through it, but at least I know Susie liked it! :) By this time my game
plan had been thrown completely out of the window, and although I feel like I
made a lot of mistakes (plus had difficulty carrying out a single theme in my
set, instead opting for a huge variety), I know I did at least a FEW good
things, and I am proud of myself. Doesn't mean I have reached my goal though.

Anyway, Jan Cooley pumped up her renowned house after me, and I left about a
half hour into her set. She played a test pressing of the new Daisy Glow
record (I had the pleasure of meeting the author, Kelix, who accompanied
Jan. When he approached me I happened to be playing a Twitch remix of a 
Daisy Glow song, which I love, and he thanked me profusely for playing it)...
it's cool in that it breaks the regional boundaries...it evokes an overwhelming
urge to pigeonhole it as "New York House", with it's Aretha Franklin wails and
Xpress 2 horns, but hey, it's coming from SF. The boundaries are blurring.

OK, here come my thank you's...this would be a good time to hit the delete key
if you're sick of me indulging myself:

Socal-Ravers: I felt a certain emptiness without you, you are very important
to me and I missed your energy. The vrave link-up with Dub (a new ambient
club which opened tonight, featuring socal ravers and friends) and the 
presence of a certain ex-girlfriend of the tallest socal-raver, her dancing her
ass off right in front of me, were comforting and I really felt like you guys
were there.  Joe: I have three words for you: Smith and Mighty.

SFRavers: Your support means a lot to me, thank you for being a large part of
why this party has always felt so good.  

YSH possee: I want to publicly thank all the sisters, especially Susan and
Maui (and honorary sister Sean) for persevering when it looked like this 
party would just die.  I hope that someday they will know the kind of impact
that they have had on people.

So those are my big ups. I must also send a big fat fuck you to the random
girl who asked me to play some fucking cheesy Murk song...and loudly 
interrupted me while i had one hand on the volume and the other on the
crossfader...on my very last mix of the evening. Grrr. The raspberry of the
evening goes to Jon Drukman, who, had he sacrificed mere moments of sleep, 
would have been treated to The Snowball Effect.

OK, I am very tired...I could write for hours...one last thought. Susan 
remarked that she and I are similar in that we both have trouble narrowing
down our likes into one main style of dance music. Instead, we both tend to
be what you would nicely call "eclectic" or insultingly call "all over the
place". My question to you is - how much does variety within a set mean to you
as dancers?

Good night, and remember, your sisters love you all....MMMMWWWWAHHHHHH!



Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
...............................................................................

trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 10:18:56 1994
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Date: 01 Apr 1994 10:17:37 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: Palo Alto Weekly
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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hey, the (i think?) world's first WWW-based newspaper is online, at this
  URL (for Mosaic'ans):


    http://www.service.com/PAW/home.html

looks like mostly fluff at this time, but who knows, there mite be a
  funnies page in the works  :)


Dave Scruton

snorting smog in LA

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 10:44:59 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 10:44:46 -0800
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Your Sisters' Notes . . .
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Top 10 Reasons to Jump for Joy at the Return of YSH (in no particular order)

* Susan's into dubby acid that is so seriously spaced out that even the
        most serious Rotterdam headbanger (no, this is not an ethnic
        slur, it's a musical reference) would get something positive out 
        of it.

* Peace's banner 

* some of the nicest people in San Francisco dance there

* Sound*Vision 

* use of a non-club location

* is it just me or does the YSH-going-crowd not smoke a lot of cigarettes?

* $20 worth of fun and vibe for only $5

* "the little things" like candles, flowers, interesting hand outs

* starts at 10 so us 9-to-5-ers can party down and still get a decent night's
	sleep

* with all the different women who have played there, the lineup is always 
	changing so YSH always delivers something new  (even though I don't
	like Tara's chosen style of music, I really have to say that she is 
	GREAT!  Tamara is still hard to classify (yay!!) and is putting out 
	an energetic groove -- and don't be so darn hard on yourself.  I 
	didn't stay for Jan because I had to go home and sleep.)


Laura

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 11:46:24 1994
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From: ake@lighthouse.com (Alan Eyzaguirre)
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Subject: Your Sisters' Notes . . .
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This was my first sfraves adventure, and I have to admit, it was quite a blast.
"The music was fantastic." One of the things I was reallly afraid of was
to find standard pop music, but it wasn't. The music was the ride.

Thanks for the pixie sticks and intros. The group seems like a friendly,
open bunch.

@

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 13:36:57 1994
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Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 13:37:46 -0800
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Message-Id: <199404012137.NAA12283@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: YSH report
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

The Sisters are Back
====================

  "Your Sisters House" back on-line again for the first time in
thie new rave year.    This time,  with a killer space,  an old
warehouse in SF,  somewhere near the China Basin area.

   Things got started early this time,  and we arrived sometime
around 10 pm.   At first,  few people showed up,   but later on,
things were just the right size.    The dance floor got kinda crowded,
but the environment was really great.   Not hot and stuffy,   but
rather cool an pleasant.

   When I arrived,  Susan was spinning,   and she never let me down,
spinning a constant beat,  really great new and refreshing tunes.
It's really good to hear some new talant,  and the "Sisters" certainly
didn't lack that at all.

   All ths usual crowd was there,  heavily attended by the SFR folks,
and as usual,  the attitude was "Luv phasers all the way".

   As usual,  I danced my butt off,  and feel very much stronger now
that I'm completly healed.       

   Outside,  a fire was lit in an old barbeque,  and some folks were
chilling out by the fire.    It was a really nice evening.   Not too
cold,   and was just right.

   Saw a lot of new faces this time,   some from the Universal Groove
gig also happening on the same night.

   It's hard to tell how many people showed up,   but I estimate
somewhere between 40 and 60 people (correct me if I'm wrong),  but
for the first "YSH" of the year,   I would say it was well attended.

   Although I didn't make the discussion group because of Brian's party
at Ameba,   I couldn't say how that turned out.

   At any rate,  WELCOME BACK Sisters....


Crunch


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 14:38:47 1994
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From: Scott Everett Swiger <scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Outdoor events
To: John Draper <crunch@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Wed, 30 Mar 1994, John Draper wrote:

> Say!  I got this killer idea,    Lets get together a small group of people
> some weekend,  and go out driving around,   looking for suitable sites
> to have killer outdoor gigs.   We could make a picnic/camping trip out
> of it,   discover neat areas seldom visited by people.   Sorta like the
> "Bay Area Backroads" places.     I remember a long time ago,  when I was

The Mother Earth Sound System hears you loud and clear, CC.  We have a
friend who owns a 40 ft. long fully equipped Ford bus (bunk beds, kitchen,
storage space, etc) and we have been tossing around the idea of a MESS
road trip for some time now.  Given the climate and scenery around here, 
we almost have an obligation to party outdoors! :)  Anyone else on our 
wavelength?

Peace + respect,
scottie


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 14:49:21 1994
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From: Robert Jesse <rjesse@us.oracle.com>
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: MDMA Research:  SoCal volunteers needed
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

MDMA RESEARCH: UPDATE ON THE HARBOR-UCLA PROJECT
BY CHARLES S. GROB, M.D.

[This article was published in the Spring, 1994 issue of the newsletter of the
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), a
membership-based non-profit research and educational organization.  See the  
end of this message for more info about MAPS.]

Efforts are underway to initiate human research with MDMA
(3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) at Harbor-ULCA Medical Center.
Comprehensive work-ups of several individuals with extensive histories of
past use of MDMA have been performed. These evaluations have focused on the
effects of MDMA use on serotonergic neurotransmitter function, and have
examined such parameters as sleep electroencephalograms (EEG), fenfluramine
challenge tests, SPECT brain scans and neuropsychological testing. Our
preliminary data (which we hope to report on in a subsequent MAPS newsletter)
has turned out to be quite fascinating. We believe this study will shed
considerable light on the psychophysiological mechanisms by which MDMA exerts
its unique effects.

We currently have FDA approval to conduct two studies of MDMA administration
in humans. The first study will be an examination of MDMA's general safety
parameters. It will involve a gradual ascending dose model to determine
threshold for subjective psychological effects as well as analgesia. This
study will be preparatory to eventual studies for which we hope to receive
permission to conduct with patients who have terminal medical illness. 


SAFETY AND DOSE-FINDING STUDY

The safety and dose-finding study in healthy volunteers will involve three
separate experimental sessions in the Clinical Studies Center at the
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center. The sessions will utilize each of two different
dosages of MDMA as well as an inactive placebo. Both subjects and research
personnel will be blind as to what is administered at each session. We will
start with what we consider to be a sub-threshold dose (0.25 mg/kg) and
gradually increase the dosages with successive subjects into the range we
anticipate will induce the unique MDMA effect.  Parameters to be examined in
this study include blood pressure, temperature, electrocardiograms, hepatic
function, renal function and thyroid function.  A variety of measures will be
utilized to quantify both acute psychological effect as well as
neuropsychological function. Non-invasive assessment of pain perception and
analgesia will also be pursued.  Given that this study is anticipated to be
preparatory to an extensive investigation of the use of MDMA as a putative
therapeutic modality in individuals with end-stage medical illness associated
with refractory pain and psychological distress, we will also work with the
guided imagery models we hope to eventually employ in these future studies.

SEROTONIN SYSTEM STUDY

Our second study of MDMA administration in humans will involve a careful
and extensive evaluation of effects on parameters of brain function. Given
the concerns of the past decade with the phenomena described as "serotonergic
neurotoxicity", it is imperative that we conduct objective and fair-minded
studies into the effects of MDMA on parameters influenced by serotonergic
neurotransmitter function.  Although there is laboratory evidence that low
dose MDMA causes no discernable lasting effect to brain structures, there
is no doubt on the basis of animal histopathological investigations that
repeated parenteral administration of high dosages of MDMA will exert
profound changes to serotonergic neuronal distribution.

What the implications of this animal data are to the functional status of
individual human beings who take MDMA, however, is not at all clear. Are
we looking at a "neurotoxic" phenomena which will inevitably lead to
deterioration of neuropsychiatric function over time, or are we in fact
observing the histopathological substrate for what may eventually be
recognized as therapeutic "neuroplasticity"? Without access to data from
research studies of human use of MDMA, we can only conjecture as to what
the implications may be. Fortunately, we have reached the point where it
is now possible to conduct the level of comprehensive, well-controlled
methodological studies into the effects of MDMA in human subjects which
will be essential to answer these critical questions.

The extensive investigation of MDMA effects on parameters of serotonergic
neurotransmitter function is under way at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center.
My primary collaborator on this project is Dr. Russell Poland, a senior
researcher in the Department of Psychiatry.  Subjects enrolled in this
particular study will be required to come into the Clinical Studies Center
at Harbor-UCLA on six separate occasions. They will receive comprehensive
neuropsychiatric assessments to include neuroendocrine challenge tests, sleep
electroencephalograms, brain SPECT scans and neuropsychological testing.
Extensive investigation of these parameters we anticipate will provide for
us an enhanced understanding of the effects of MDMA use on serotonergic
neurotransmitter status and its functional consequences.

VOLUNTEERS NEEDED

We are currently recruiting subjects to take part in both of the studies
described above. We are looking for both male and female volunteers who would
be willing to invest the necessary time, energy and inconvenience that
participation would require.  We are particularly interested in identifying
prospective subjects who have used significant amounts of MDMA but have
relatively little experience with other drugs.  Our subjects will need to be
between the ages of 21 and 65, be in good medical and psychiatric health and
have had prior first hand experience with the self-administration of MDMA.
The criteria that subjects must be health professionals was recently waived
by the FDA with the stipulation that participants be sufficiently
knowledgeable of the controversy over MDMA's effects that true informed
consent be possible.  Anyone interested in participating in these studies
can call our research coordinator, Carla Edwards, at (310) 222-1663.

FUNDING NEEDED

Although  Dr. Poland and I recently received a small "in-house" grant from
the Harbor-UCLA Research and Education Institute, we must acquire significant
additional funding to carry out our investigational plans. This funding we
have obtained is actually specified for the study extensively evaluating
serotonergic parameters of brain function, and will enable us to collect
pilot data which we will use in a submission to a large government granting
agency. We are at this point without designated funding for the smaller
scale, dose-finding and safety study,  which is a necessary first step for
the work we hope to do with individuals with end-stage medical illness. It is
our strong hope, however, that together with the generous support of MAPS, we
will be able to identify sufficient funding sources which will allow this
work to begin. There is much at stake here.  There are many questions to be
asked and answered.  There are myths to be dispelled. There is new knowledge
to acquire and paths to explore.  This is an exciting time. With the
necessary funding support, we are ready to begin a series of research
investigations which we anticipate will begin to address these very important
issues. With the necessary funding support, we are ready to begin a series of
research investigations which we anticipate will begin to answer these
questions which must be addressed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tax-deductable donations to this project may be made through MAPS, 1801 Tippah  
Avenue, Charlotte, NC. 28205.  Phone (704) 358-9830, FAX (704) 358-1650,  
e-mail SYLVIAMAPS@aol.com.

Please specify how much of your donation you would like to have directed  
towards Dr. Grob's MDMA research.  Donors of $30 or more (even if 100%  
designated for the MDMA studies) will receive a one year membership in MAPS.

Becoming a member of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic
Studies, Inc. (MAPS) and receiving the MAPS newsletter is an excellent way to
stay abreast of the latest developments in psychedelic research around the
world.  In addition, your membership donation will be used to support
research into the medical uses of MDMA, LSD, marijuana, and a cornucopia of
other fascinating compounds.
 

MAPS is an IRS-approved non-profit corporation supported by tax-deductible
contributions from a membership of about seven hundred people and growing.
MAPS  works to develop the medical potential of MDMA and other psychedelics
by assisting researchers around the world to design, obtain governmental
approval for, fund,  conduct and report on psychedelic research.  MAPS is
also involved in research  exploring the medical use of marijuana.  MAPS'
primary goals are to help researchers conduct the studies necessary to
transform MDMA and marijuana into FDA-approved prescription medicines. For
MDMA, this is an estimated ten-year, $10 million project;  for marijuana,
a two-year, $500,000 task.

MAPS offers its members a quarterly newsletter reporting on MAPS-sponsored
and other psychedelic research in progress both in the US and abroad,
political developments that affect psychedelic research and use,  and
conferences, books and articles of interest.  In addition, MAPS offers for
sale various unique publications (for example the protocol submitted to the
FDA for the investigation of the use of MDMA in the treatment of pain and
distress in terminal cancer patients), videotapes (of a MAPS benefit held in
Berkeley in 1990 that featured Jerry Beck, Ram Dass, Bruce Eisner, Rick
Doblin,  Laura Huxley, Emerson Jackson, Mark Kleiman, Timothy Leary, Dennis
McKenna, Terence McKenna, Ralph Metzner, Andrew Weil, and Robert Zanger), and
audiotapes (of a MAPS seminar held in Prague in 1992 featuring Ram Dass, Ken
Ring and Richard Yensen discussing working with the terminally ill with
psychedelics).

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 14:57:47 1994
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Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 14:41:06 -0800 (PST)
From: "D. Ronan Hallowell" <holo@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Your Sisters' Notes . . .
To: Alan Eyzaguirre <ake@lighthouse.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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I am a so called "newbie" in these parts but have been to a few events 
recently. YSH definitely  had it goin' on!

I hooked up with Ethan and Bryce about a week ago (via the list) and they 
among others have made me feel very welcome. 

I arrived at the space close to 10PM and things hadn't quite got going yet.
I said hi to Ethan and Bryce milled around a little and then found my 
self spinning some of Ethan's records for 25 mins or so until Susan took 
over and got the heavy beats going. 

Susan and I had a pleasant exchange and she told me that I was the first 
male DJ to spin at a YSH event. I must say I feel quite honored and the 
funny thing is it was just so casual and unplanned. There was a real warm 
and open vibe and that's what the "scene" (and Our world) needs!!!

Many thanks to the DJ's, YSH collective and SoundVision for a fun evening.

Onward to the promised land(s)...

					Ronan

"Evoloution is an interpaly between habit and creativity. And creativity 
involves the prodigous production of new forms"

						-Rupert Sheldrake


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 15:03:33 1994
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From: chinacat@netcom.com (J. Petersen)
Message-Id: <199404012304.PAA16413@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Personal to Sameer
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 15:04:22 -0800 (PST)
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Please drop me a line. I lost your address and wanted to talk to you
a bit about your net-access idea. Thanks!

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jim Petersen                              Argue for your limitations...
chinacat@netcom.com                            And they are yours


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 15:17:20 1994
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Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 15:08:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Everett Swiger <scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: MESS April 2
To: sfraves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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Hi folks,

Just some final details on our one-year anniversary party tomorrow:

- Sound by *SoundVision* (yahoooo!!!)

- East Bay location (call Sat. morning for directions: (510) 814-2402 and 
(415) 487-7655)

- Markie is going to play early in the afternoon cuz he has to leave for 
San Diego, and Anton will most likely close.

- Bring picnic-type munchies and toys (Sean, I hope you're still bringing 
your giant bubble-maker :)!!!

- Going to Basics/CM?  Stop by in the afternoon and chill with us under 
the sun for a while, grab some food and a nap, and then head on out to 
B/CM, well rested and fed.

Hope to see y'all tomorrow!!!

Peace + respect,

			*************************
			MOTHER EARTH SOUND SYSTEM
			*************************
			>>>RESPECT YOUR MOTHER<<<
			*************************
			UNITE  CELEBRATE  SURVIVE
			*************************




From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 20:39:51 1994
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 1 Apr 1994 23:38:15 EST
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 23:38:15 -0500 (EST)
From: luftdruck <PICK1731@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: FYI.rBGH
To: idm@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Cc: dcraves@auvm.bitnet
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i apologize for the lack of rave-relation in this post, but its
pertinence to our culture is certain.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
* ATTENTION * CONSUMERS * ATTENTION * CONSUMERS * ATTENTION * CONSUMERS*
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  
Untested, unlabeled, genetically engineered hormones enter dairy goods.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Starting on Feb. 3, 1994, milk, cheese, butter, ice cream, yogurt, beef,
and infant formula sold and consumed throughout the United States will
contain genetically engineered recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH) 
- also know as Bovine Somatotropin (BST). Recently, the U.S. Food and  
Drug Administration (FDA) approved the use of rBGH in dairy cows without 
long-term testing of the hormone's health effects on the consumer.

What is it?
^^^^^^^^^^^
rBGH is a drug which acts to "rev up" the cows system, forcing them to 
produce a higher output of milk, but in the process makes them sick. 
The FDA and Monsanto Chemical (the giant chemical conglomerate that 
won the FDA approval) admit that the cows injected with rBGH suffer 
from increased udder infections (mastitis) and greater stress and 
disease. A multitude of health concerns are currently being debated 
on both sides of this issue and we welcome you to research and decide
about them individually.

Why do we need this in our dairy system?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The simple answer is, WE DON'T. American dairy farmers already produce 
such a massive surplus of milk and cheese that taxpayers spend billions 
to buy up the excess. The use of rBGH to create an even greater milk 
surplus will cost the American taxpayer additional billions in dairy 
price supports. This overproduction of milk caused by rBGH will force 
30 percent of American dairy farmers out of business within 36 months 
of its introduction to the market. For each dairy farmer driven out of 
business, 25 other dairy-related jobs will also be lost.

So why has the FDA approved the use of this drug?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's happened because chemical and pharmaceutical giants like Monsanto,
Eli Lilly, American Cyanamid, and Upjohn have invested hundreds of 
millions of dollars developing a product that has absolutely no consumer 
benefit, and is potentially dangerous, BUT WILL EARN THEM BILLIONS. The 
risks associated with rBGH use has led the European Economic (EC) to 
make a preliminary decision to ban the use of rBGH until after the year 
2000.

How do we know what we are eating?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You won't be able to avoid eating rBGH contaminated foods because the 
FDA refuses to require labeling of rBGH-derived foods. The FDA decision 
is an outrage considering that, according to recent surveys, more than 
90 percent of consumers favor labeling of rBGH products so they can avoid 
buying them.

How can we overcome this situation?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A MASSIVE CONSUMER BOYCOTT is our only hope for defeat of this product
as well as the thousands of other harmful genetically engineered foods
to come.

The Vegetarian Awareness Committee of the State University of New York 
at Plattsburgh has utilized the following petition arranged by the Pure 
Food Campaign and will forward it to all the major dairy producers in the 
country. If you would like your name added to this petition, please send  
a message to the following address with "I OPPOSE rBGH", your full name,  
and zip code as whole body of the message. We the people can work further 
on-line.

                PICK1731@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU

                                or

                     PICK1731@SNYPLAVA.BITNET  


Where can you get more information?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All information listed here has been supplied by the Pure Food Campaign,
a project of the Foundation on Economic Trends, 1130 17th St., N.W.,
Suite 300, Washington, D.C., 20036 (1-800-451-7670). 

For a partial listing of producers, distributors, brand name companies, 
and supermarket chains that are free of synthetic rBGH please send a 
separate message to PICK1731@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU with "rBGH-FREE 
LIST" as the body of the message.

--> PLEASE FORWARD THIS DOCUMENT TO ANY AND ALL PEOPLE YOU FEEL WOULD BE
--> INTERESTED AND PLEASE REMEMBER TO DELETE PREVIOUS HEADERS IN ORDER TO
--> KEEP THE FORWARDED MESSAGE IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM.

***************************************************************************

Referenced
Vendor
Address

Dear Dairy Vendor/Manufacturer/Seller:

We the undersigned, pledge to boycott foods contaminated with "recomb-
inant Bovine Growth Hormone" (rBGH), and other genetically engineered
food products.

We demand that all milk, dairy, and beef products be clearly labeled as
to whether or not they are derived from cows injected with synthetic
genetically engineered hormones.

We will refuse to purchase milk, dairy, or beef products that do not
bear a label stating that they are rBGH free.

We will patronize only those dairy and beef producers who have pledged,
in a written affidavit, to remain completely rBGH-free.

Signatures

 <^>  | michael j. pickering                   \/
6 4 1 | pick1731@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu    <@@>
 ^^^  | aeiou.&.sometimes.y                 ...00

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 20:49:07 1994
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Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 20:50:03 -0800
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Message-Id: <199404020450.UAA21076@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Calendar??
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Was there a calendar this week or ????? 
Cuz I didn't get it!

Rox

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  1 21:45:08 1994
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Message-Id: <9404012138.ZM21127@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 21:38:31 -0800
In-Reply-To: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
        "Your Sister's House" (Apr  1,  4:18am)
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Cc: socal-raves@ucsd.edu, izzy4lm@mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Janelle Wong),
        usuz@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (suzy plotkin),
        brians@extol.sj.unisys.com (brian sassone), bananne@cyborganic.com,
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        a540mtg@pic.asucla.edu
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Thanks to tam for the great write-up.

Eclectic?  ECLECTIC???  You should see my play lists from when I was
on college radio in 1976!  Everything from Zappa to Bohannan to Villalobos
to Steely Dan to Grover Washington to Bill Monroe to Average White Band.

Eclectic is the way to go, trust me on this.  So you GO!!

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 09:33:29 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404021734.JAA08611@netcom10.netcom.com>
Subject: Dancing & Jewelry
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 09:34:23 -0800 (PST)
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This is going to be one of those "has this ever happened to you" postings -

 The last few times I've gone dancing since I got married , I've noticed 
something odd. It seems that the weight of the wedding ring on my left hand 
is distracting when I get into near-trance state. I think it has to do 
with the difference between the weight of my left and right hands, and the
different inertias of the two hands.

 When I do the trance-dance stuff , I like to use my hands as "vibe" 
sensors ( leaving off for now what "vibe" is defined as ...). The ring seems
to throw my left hand "antenna" out of sync with my right hand "antenna".

 The easiest solution - taking the ring off while I'm dancing - is 
unacceptable , as I might lose it ( even if it's on a chain around my 
neck ). Leaving it at home is not prefferable , since I'm proud to be
married . 

 So , I've asked my wife Mary to find me another ring to put on my right
hand , to balance my hands! I'm going to consider it my "rave ring"...

-------

 Anybody else out there have "problems" with jewelry while dancing?

		Larry "No Larry , just you ..." Ching 
			larryc@netcom.com


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 11:44:04 1994
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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 11:26:12 -0800
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404021926.LAA25903@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Raving and sexualove (oh my!)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



	It seems that this subject has never really been explored
	here on sfraves but I think if there ever was a place to talk
	about raving and sex/love this would be it.  First a few qualifiers,
	I'm using the term sexualove to try to be a little more accurate
	and to also side step some flames.  Sexualove is that special energy
	that you feel for (an)other(s) that would or could reach expression
	in a physical (sexual) way.  It doesn't mean that you have to actually
	"have sex" (but it could) but it is a "deeper" feeling then just the
	"platonic" emotions that have readily been shared.

	My questions are:

	1) How has your sex/love life, capacity, expression, etc. changed
	since you have been raving?

	2) For people who are single, do you find it easier or harder to get
	into a sexualove relationship now that you are a raver?

	3) For people in committed relationships, how has raving changed your
	sexualove cycles/behavior?

	4) Is making love to another raver "different" than making love to
	a "non-raver"?

	5) Does the Eros that is generated at some parties (like a Wicked)
	excite you or is it a turn off?

	6) Since you have become a raver, do you think that you are more or less
	open to exploring other sexualove lifestyles then the one you are
	currently practicing?

	7) Do you think ravers are more tolerant of other people's sexualove
	preferences?

	8) If you are at a party and the music is _really_ goin-off and
	a friend comes up to you (that you've wanted for sometime, I
	might add) and wants you to go with them to the chill-out room
	(obviously to make- out); do you go with them or do you stay on the
	dance-floor?

	9) For those of you who trance, how has this affected your sexualove
	life?  Do you enter trance states more easily while making love?  Does
	it get in the way of meeting perspective partners at a party (as in
	you look pretty funny with your eyes crossed :)

	10) How many of you now (or have) made love to music (house or
	otherwise) and how has this experience affected you?


I know some of these questions are pretty intimate, you can use some 
anonymous mailers to reply, if you don't want anyone to know who you are.


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 12:10:32 1994
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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 94 12:09:59 -0800
From: jsd@cyborganic.com (Jon Drukman)
Message-Id: <9404022009.AA06325@cyborganic.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: rave in park easter sunday
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

just to let y'all know there will be a free party in golden gate park
on sunday (tomorrow).  DJs: carlos, kenneth paul and chach.
call 415-824-3440 for information on sunday - please don't call
earlier because it's someone's personal answering machine.  the info
will be on the machine tomorrow probably starting around 10 am.

don't ask me any more questions about it cos that's all i know.

/jon

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 13:36:48 1994
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From: "Michael Standish" <standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com>
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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 13:13:31 -0800
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Apr 2,  9:34am, Larry Ching wrote:
>  Anybody else out there have "problems" with jewelry while dancing?

	Yeah my nipple piercing used to get real irriatated if wore
overalls while dancing. Just imagine the horror of not being able
to wear overalls to a rave. It's still painfull to think about.
	I finaly gave up on the nipple ring and took it out.

Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S




From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 14:59:52 1994
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Message-Id: <9404021757.tn360498@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 94 17:57:50 EST
Subject: Re: Raving and sexualove (oh my!)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

geoffw@nexsys.net asks:

> (a number of intimate questions about sex/love vis-a-vis raves
> and parties...>

hmmmm - 

Interesting point that came across my mind as well last week at the Mixmaster
Morris Ambient show. As I tranced to the music for hours and stared across
the carpeted floor literally covered with bodies I couldn't understand how
people were able to keep their expressions of sex/love down to such a muted
level.

Personally, one of the great draws of techno/rave music has been the tantric
rush I get from the big sub-bass slam beat. When I am dancing or listening
and move into a trance state, it seems to be always more grounded in the
earthy/sexual side of the spirit/soul than the lofty/religious ecstacy of
perhaps the Sufi trance dancers. Actually, I'm not that sure that these mind
sets are really that far apart, both being expressions of love and devotion
in their own ways...

As for making love to trance/dance/techno, I have unfortunately found few
partners in the last 20 years or so who were as interested as I in bedding
down to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, or Music for Airports, or any of the many
others disks in the library of this sort...(one girlfriend even complained
that Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" had too come off the turntable one evening
because it was 'too compelling'...funny, I thought that was the whole point
of having the stereo on whilst in bed...


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 15:12:23 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9404022259.AA19196@gaia.internex.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Sexualove follow-up...
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	I should also add that it is OK to reply just to me
	and if you want me to keep your replies anonymous I will do so.

	I will compile a summary of all anonymous replies and post it to the
	group.  (If I think that the nature of your reply will "out" you,
	I will ask your permission first.)

	As far as anonymous remailers are concerned maybe someone like 
	sameer or the capt'n could give people better directions then
	I could, In fact I think that the list might reject post that are
	not from subscribers, Brian, Is this true?

	You can definitely send anonymous mail to me at geoffw@nexsys.net


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 15:28:59 1994
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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 15:14:06 -0800
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404022314.PAA26164@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, geoffw@nexsys.net
Subject: Re: Raving and sexualove (oh my!)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I suppose I should step to the plate and answer my own survey :)





> 	My questions are:
> 
> 	1) How has your sex/love life, capacity, expression, etc. changed
> 	since you have been raving?

I would most definitely say yes.  It has changed for the better.  I feel much
more open, relaxed and adventurous about and around issues of sex and love

> 
> 	2) For people who are single, do you find it easier or harder to get
> 	into a sexualove relationship now that you are a raver?

Hmm, well it seems to be harder to be in relationships with people who are
not in the scene, most of this has to do with the weird sleep cycles and
other forms of night-time activity (like prowling around on remote beaches
at 3 a.m.).  People are much more open and apparently available but if you
spend all of your time dancing...
> 
> 	3) For people in committed relationships, how has raving changed your
> 	sexualove cycles/behavior?

Not Applicable

> 
> 	4) Is making love to another raver "different" than making love to
> 	a "non-raver"?

Well *some* ravers are incredible. I think that once you learn to ride the
wave of the music, then this can apply to other aspects of your life like
love-making.  It seems like once you make love to a raver, you'll find it
hard to "go back" :)

> 
> 	5) Does the Eros that is generated at some parties (like a Wicked)
> 	excite you or is it a turn off?

For me, I absolutely _love_ it.

> 
> 	6) Since you have become a raver, do you think that you are more or less
> 	open to exploring other sexualove lifestyles then the one you are
> 	currently practicing?
> 

I would say more open.

> 	7) Do you think ravers are more tolerant of other people's sexualove
> 	preferences?
> 

There are bigots and homophobes in all groups but I think ravers as a whole
tend to be more tolerant.

> 	8) If you are at a party and the music is _really_ goin-off and
> 	a friend comes up to you (that you've wanted for sometime, I
> 	might add) and wants you to go with them to the chill-out room
> 	(obviously to make- out); do you go with them or do you stay on the
> 	dance-floor?

Well I asked this one because it has happened to me.  ( I opted to keep 
dancing, (being a trance-addict *does* have it's problems) But I've been
looking at this type of behavior lately and I'm not sure it is a good thing.
But I guess I will take each situation as it makes itself available.

> 
> 	9) For those of you who trance, how has this affected your sexualove
> 	life?  Do you enter trance states more easily while making love?  Does
> 	it get in the way of meeting perspective partners at a party (as in
> 	you look pretty funny with your eyes crossed :)

YES! Well um, hmm let's just say that with the right person, sex has taken
on a whole new meaning.  I don't know how much of this is the raving and how 
much is the tantra (is there a difference?)  As far as "going-off" at a party
well I've gotten used to being stared at so as long as I'm among family, I'm
not worried.


> 
> 	10) How many of you now (or have) made love to music (house or
> 	otherwise) and how has this experience affected you?

If you haven't tried it, you should, that's all I'll say.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 17:28:22 1994
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Subject: Re: Sexualove follow-up...
To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 17:27:58 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404022259.AA19196@gaia.internex.net> from "Geoff White" at Apr 2, 94 02:59:35 pm
From: Sameer <sameer@soda.berkeley.edu>
Pgp-Strong-Print: 3C AE E4 00 C2 6A 81 FF  49 4E EE 0C CD CD 1D 80
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Geoff White spake:
> 	As far as anonymous remailers are concerned maybe someone like 
> 	sameer or the capt'n could give people better directions then
> 	I could, In fact I think that the list might reject post that are
> 	not from subscribers, Brian, Is this true?

	If the list rejects post that aren't from subscribers we just
need to subscribe nobody@soda.berkeley.edu to the list, or something.
	If that won't work I can reactivate my soda.berkeley.edu
remailer, as I'm subbed, so posts to the list through my remailer
should still work. (I don't quite know how the list checks these
things)

	Anyhow.. to learn about the remailers, check out by ftp:

soda.berkeley.edu:/pub/cypherpunks/remailer/INDEX

	Or by WWW:

ftp://soda.berkeley.edu/pub/cypherpunks/remailer/.html


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From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 21:12:25 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 21:12:14 -0800
In-Reply-To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
       "Sexualove follow-up..." (Apr  2,  2:59pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Sexualove follow-up...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

On Apr 2,  2:59pm, you proclaimed:
} 	As far as anonymous remailers are concerned maybe someone like 
} 	sameer or the capt'n could give people better directions then
} 	I could, In fact I think that the list might reject post that are
} 	not from subscribers, Brian, Is this true?

They will be forwarded to me, but I'll resend them to the list, no
problem.

	Brian

From bbehlen  Sat Apr  2 21:22:35 1994
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From: bbehlen@techno.Stanford.EDU (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 21:22:28 PST
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: sfraves
Subject: fwd: Come-Unity location
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

--- Forwarded mail from crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)

>From crunch@netcom.com Sat Apr  2 14:32:12 1994
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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 14:33:17 -0800
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Message-Id: <199404022233.OAA05673@mail.netcom.com>
To: SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Come/Unity tonight


I just talked with Martin O'Brian,  promoter of the Come/Unity rave
tonight,  and he gave me permission to give out the location...

It's held at the same place as the 4th of July Gathering.   Remember
the hill fire?   Same place.    Refreshing your memory,   take 580
out towards Livermore to Vasco Rd.   Go north for about 15 minutes
until you encounter your first stop sign at Camino Diablo Rd,  Right
onto Camino Diablo road,  look for sign saying "Sand Hills Ranch".
You're there... look for the parking folks to guide you to your parking
place.   Yowsa!!    First Outdoor of the year.....   BE THERE!!

CC


--- End of forwarded message from crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  2 22:52:02 1994
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Message-Id: <9404022251.ZM2253@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 22:51:49 -0800
In-Reply-To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
        "Dancing & Jewelry" (Apr  2,  9:34am)
References: <199404021734.JAA08611@netcom10.netcom.com>
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Larry, it's pretty clear what you've got is a Simple Matter of Chakras

  :-)

phred

"Why make it simple & easy
 When you can make it complex & wonderful!"

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr  3 22:57:21 1994
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Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 22:57:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Michael Nelson <drenalin@duckmail.uoregon.edu>
Subject: west coast rave..
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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	Someone mentioned tryiong to throw a rave somewhere in between 
Seattle/Vancouver and SF meaning approxiamately Portland or Eugene! well 
I reside in Eugene currently and just went to the phatest party last 
night.  The vibe was great (I was feeling phresh from my Liquid Air 
rejuvanation) and people came out to make it a great night.  I talked to 
Raymon who threw the party and he said that he would be willing to help 
throw this west coast thingee, there is another promoter Sky who I'm 
friends with and he would help too I'm sure.  So if you guys want to use 
these 'resources' give me a ring on the 'ol e-line and I'll Connect you 
to what's going on in Eugene (we've got two raves coming up this month 
and Psychic TV is playing this next weekend lots more things happening up 
here it's great!)  

The Cloud Factory (back in action!)

DJ Adrenalin

"What I love about her is she still dances when the music stops..."
					-anonymous
"Scott, keep dancing to the music that no one else can hear."
			-Tyla, a yearbook farewell

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 00:30:31 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 00:22:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: A Message of PLUR (fwd)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9404040052.A8055-0100000@sutro>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

i thought you guys and gals would enjoy this....susie(:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 22:04:00 EST
From: Machine Media <0005995336@mcimail.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list NE-RAVES <NE-RAVES@umdd.umd.edu>
Subject: A Message of PLUR

DEAREST CYBERTRIBE:
        This cool kid (who would make inhuman look old ;) handed me this
flyer. It was badly photocopied on the top half of a piece cheap white
office paper. It was made with a typewriter with artless ballpoint
scribbles, this is what it said (all caps omitted):

        Why are you at this event? The rave scene is not just about
techno. This scene is not just about drugs. This scene is not just about
fashion. It is something special about unity and happiness. It is about
being yourself and being loved for it. It should be a harbor from our
society. But our scene is disintegrating! Old style ravers -- remember
when everyone hugged all the time -- not just to say hello and goodbye?
Remember when people just said hi for no other reason except to be your
friend? Remember how good that felt? Why don't we do it anymore? Newcomers
-- you are wanted and should know that this scene is about openness. We
all share a bond -- the desire to groove to a good beat all night long --
and no man is an island. Everyone needs friends and the outside world is
tough enough. We don't need fronts and attitudes in our scene. Open your
hearts and let the good feelings flow. Look around you, pick a person, ask
them their name, and make a friend. Eliminate boundaries. Open your hearts
and minds. Ravers unite and keep the scene alive!!!


        If U ask me the worlds greatest graphics company could not have
made a better flyer!

:D :) :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :)

PEACE OUT :)

I LOVE U ALL!!!


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 00:32:56 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 00:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: A Message of PLUR (fwd)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9404040044.B8055-0100000@sutro>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

i thought you would enjoy this also....susie(:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 23:43:44 EDT
From: John Goldman <jgoldman@tmn.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list DCRAVES <DCRAVES@american.edu>
Subject: A Message of PLUR

Original Message(s):
>MESSAGE from =NE-RAVES@UMDD.UMD.EDU               03-APR-94 23:17
>From: Machine Media <0005995336@MCIMAIL.COM>
>Date:         Sun, 3 Apr 1994 22:04:00 EST
>Reply-To: NE Raves Discussion <NE-RAVES@UMDD.UMD.EDU>,
>Sender: NE Raves Discussion <NE-RAVES@UMDD.UMD.EDU>
>
>DEAREST CYBERTRIBE:
>        This cool kid (who would make inhuman look old ;) handed me this
>flyer. It was badly photocopied on the top half of a piece cheap white
>office paper. It was made with a typewriter with artless ballpoint
>scribbles, this is what it said (all caps omitted):
>
>        Why are you at this event? The rave scene is not just about
>techno. This scene is not just about drugs. This scene is not just about
>fashion. It is something special about unity and happiness. It is about
>being yourself and being loved for it. It should be a harbor from our
>society. But our scene is disintegrating! Old style ravers -- remember
>when everyone hugged all the time -- not just to say hello and goodbye?
>Remember when people just said hi for no other reason except to be your
>friend? Remember how good that felt? Why don't we do it anymore? Newcomers
>-- you are wanted and should know that this scene is about openness. We
>all share a bond -- the desire to groove to a good beat all night long --
>and no man is an island. Everyone needs friends and the outside world is
>tough enough. We don't need fronts and attitudes in our scene. Open your
>hearts and let the good feelings flow. Look around you, pick a person, ask
>them their name, and make a friend. Eliminate boundaries. Open your hearts
>and minds. Ravers unite and keep the scene alive!!!
>
>
>        If U ask me the worlds greatest graphics company could not have
>made a better flyer!
>
>:D :) :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :)
>
>PEACE OUT :)
>
>I LOVE U ALL!!!
>---

I got this at RED..
photocopied and on a small piece of paper...

one side said

Are you a radient being full of light and love?
>>Please Respond<<

the other side said

Some things to ask yourself:

ask yourself why you are here.
             what makes you happy and how you can obtain it.
             why you dance
             how wealthy you are
             What true wealth means to you
             How you can share that wealth with the world
             Whether you are being honest w/yourself and your friends
             Whether you will be comfortable with the choices you make
                 today later on in your life
             Why you go to these gatherings
             What these gatherings do for you
             What message the DJ is sending with his/her music
             Whether you trust your self
             Whether that trust should be given away blindly to every
                 person, promoter, or event that comes along
             Whether you know a promoter, why she/he is doing a party and
                 what their track record is
             Whether you are receiving value and where your dollars go.
                 Is a promoter taking more than giving?
             Whether promoters help those who can't afford the full tkt
                 price and why they would(n't)
             Whether you are asking more of others then you are prepared
                 to do yourself
             How you can help your scene grow and flourish-as well as
                 contribute to the success of the events you attend
             Whether you need rest, nourishment or water
             Whether healthy stuff is available should you need it
             Whether water is readily available.  Demand it if it isnt
             If you would like to share it
             What your reasons are for (not) doing the drugs you do
             Whether you know exactly what you are ingesting and what it
                 does to your body
             What the motives are behind the information that comes your
                 way
             If you need time alone to find your truth
             If you want to share that truth with others who are willing to
                listen
             How your lifestyle impacts out planet, live accordingly
             Why positive energy attracts positive energy
Ask yourself because ultimately the answers come from within

Live the light, love to all

Souls for total freedom, Montreal Div.

Feel free to copy, post, and distribute this information- its free!

(Special than to Ministry of Love for inspiring us to action)

________________________________________________________________________

I love it

I wish people would remember what this is about

It isnt about doing so much K that you cant move, and it isnt about having
every piece of clothing Addidas ever put out, and it isnt about knowing
everyone or being a promoter or a Dj or knowing the right people...it is
about having fun and loving everyone and dancin' to the beats...

After this weekend and that post I feel so loveydovey rave-ish

Peace to all

(I love this 'rave' stuff......)


john g.


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 00:35:02 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 00:27:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Message of PLUR (fwd)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9404040016.C8055-0100000@sutro>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

oh and what the hell....i thought you would enjoy this too...viva la plur 
(peace, love, unity, respect)....susie (:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 00:09:57 -0400
From: secret agent #33 <cmellow@world.std.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list NE-RAVES <NE-RAVES@umdd.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: A Message of PLUR

me and jeannie got this flyer in detroit over thanksgiving and i always
thought it was really cool.  good to see that the same type of flyers are
now circulating in the north east.  maybe someone should make up some
ne-raves messages of p.l.u.r. or whatever you want to call them.

this flyer was printed on acetate paper (the clear overhead projection
shit) :)

Underground Unite
what makes these underground events so special? it is the openness and
unity that can be expressed at them. we all share a bond...the desire to
groove to a good beat all night long...and no person should ever feel
isolated. in the underground, each individual is an interconnected part
of the experience.  everyone needs friends in an outside world which is
so tough.  this scene is about being yourself and being loved for it. it
is a harbor from our society. allow the freedom you experience at these
events let you rediscover your instinctive love for humanity. let's all
open our hearts and let the good feelings flow.  look around you, pick a
person, ask them their name and make a friend.  let's eliminate boundries
and open our hearts and minds.


i think everyone should make up their own version and print them out on
anything you have.  then give 'em to people :)

chris



--

The four building blocks of the universe      *      Finger for pgp key.
are fire, water, gravel and vinyl.            *


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 12:06:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 12:05:36 -0700
From: ubu Carasik <ubu@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199404041905.MAA15262@adelbert6.Stanford.EDU>
To: larryc@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  Dancing & Jewelry
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Interesting.  I had the same sensation wrt my wedding ring while doing
armwaving-type aerobics.  theweight of the ring (about 8 grams) seemed
very distracting.  After a few weeks or maybe months, it was no longer
distracting; I think one's arm muscles and cerebellum adjust and compensate
after a while.  A rave ring sounds like more fun, tho.

Bob

P.S. My wife si named Mary too!


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 12:27:40 1994
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Subject: from a cookie monster ;)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, v-raves@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: delaja00 <delaja00@dons.ac.usfca.EDU>
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 0
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 12:49:34 1994
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Subject: From the cookie monster 
To: vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 12:38:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: delaja00 <delaja00@dons.ac.usfca.EDU>
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> 
> Pass it on to everybody!!! and enjoy!
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>  My daughter & I had just finished a salad at Neiman-Marcus Cafe
> >>>in Dallas & decided to have a small dessert.  Because our family
> >>>are such cookie lovers, we decided to try the "Neiman-Marcus
> >>>Cookie". It was so excellent that I asked if they would give me
> >>>the recipe and they said with a small frown, "I'm afraid not."
> >>>Well, I said, would you let me buy the recipe?  With a cute
> >>>smile, she said, "Yes."  I asked how much, and she responded,
> >>>"Two fifty." I said with approval, just add it to my tab.
> >>>
> >>>  Thirty days later, I received my VISA statement from
> >>>Neiman-Marcus and it was $285.00.  I looked again and I
> >>>remembered I had only spent $9.95 for two salads and about $20.00
> >>>for a scarf.  As I glanced at the bottom of the statement, it
> >>>said, "Cookie Recipe - $250.00."  Boy, was I upset!! I called
> >>>Neiman's Accounting Dept. and told them the waitress said it was
> >>>"two fifty," and I did not realize she meant $250.00 for a cookie
> >>>recipe.  I asked them to take back the recipe and reduce my bill
> >>>and they said they were sorry, but all the recipes were
> >>>this expensive so not just everyone could duplicate any of their
> >>>bakery recipes....the bill would stand.  I waited, thinking of
> >>>how I could get even or even try and get any of my money back.
> >>>
> >>>I just said, "Okay, you folks got my $250.00 and now I'm going to
> >>>have $250.00 worth of fun." I told her that I was going to see to
> >>>it that every cookie lover had a $250.00 cookie recipe from
> >>>Neiman-Marcus for nothing. She replied, "I wish you wouldn't do
> >>>this." I said, "I'm sorry but this is the only way I feel I can
> >>>get even," and I will.
> >>>
> >>>  So, here it is, and please pass it to someone else or run a few
> >>>copies....I paid for it; now you can have it for free.
> >>>(Recipe may be halved.):
> >>>
> >>>2 cups butter                  4 cups flower
> >>>2 tsp. soda                    2 cups sugar
> >>>5 cups blended oatmeal**      24 oz. chocolate chips
> >>>2 cups brown sugar             1 tsp. salt
> >>>1  8 oz. Hershey Bar (grated)  4 eggs
> >>>2 tsp. baking powder           3 cups chopped nuts
> >>>2 tsp. vanilla                        (your choice)
> >>>
> >>>  Cream the butter and both sugars.  Add eggs and vanilla; mix
> >>>together with flour, oatmeal, salt, baking powder, and soda.  Add
> >>>chocolate chips, Hershey Bar and nuts.
> >>>  Roll into balls and place two inches apart on a cookie sheet.
> >>>Bake for 10 minutes at 375 degrees.  Makes 112 cookies.
> >>>
> >>>** measure oatmeal and blend in a blender to a fine powder.
> >>>
> >>>Have fun!!!  This is not a joke --- this is a true story..
> >>>
> >************************************************************
> >
> >>>  That's it. Please, pass it along to everyone you know, single
> >>>people, mailing lists, etc.....
> 


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 16:39:01 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 16:36:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Everett Swiger <scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: MESS April 2
To: sfraves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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Hello everyone,

This is just a quick report on the Mother Earth party Saturday and to give
you an idea of upcoming events.  Our one-year anniversary was a wonderful
reminder of why we started doing free outdoor parties in the first place
-- a small, intimate gathering of friends and like-minded folks who came
together to celebrate music, dance, and nature out in the fresh air of the
Berkeley Marina.  We were able to party until about 10:30 pm, when a
Berkeley cop showed up and asked us to leave (almost nervously, I
thought), which we did with no real disappointment, as we had planned on 
ending around 10 or 11 anyway.

Thanks to the 100 or so people who came throughout the course of the 
afternoon and evening, bringing food, bubbles (thanks Sean!), and great 
vibes all around!  

Super big thank you to Ethan and Bryce for *SoundVision*, which 
definitely lived up to all the descriptions I had heard of it!

As for upcoming tings...

* * * * *

VIVID
in memory of Gabriel Cesar
Friday, April 8
Wool, Ethan, Drew, James(SC), Scottie & Stonie
(415) 292-3289

* * * * *

Jazz Brunch at Chateau
with the BROUN FELLINIS and DJs
Saturday, April 9
noon til later
come be our guests and enjoy some good food and great acid jazz!
2545 Hillegass in Berkeley, email or call me for more info (510) 549-6233

* * * * *

Chateaupia End of the Semester Blow-Out
Saturday, April 30
featuring the Mother Earth DJs and guests

* * * * *

Mother Earth Sound System #2
middle of May sometime

* * * * *

June New Moon Festival Party

* * * * *

We'll keep you all fully posted!!!

Peace + respect,

			
			MOTHER EARTH SOUND SYSTEM
			*************************
			>>>respect your mother<<<
			*************************
			UNITE  CELEBRATE  SURVIVE


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 18:43:23 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 21:43:06 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404050143.AA14815@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Des Moines cracks down on raves
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

  [My official opinion on the matter is that raves are a very safe
  place for kids to go--far better than the usual alternatives.
  Trying to tell bored kids to stay home is like trying to tell them
  that abstinence is the best way to deal with their sex drive. The
  best thing to do, in my opinion, is accept human nature instead of
  stifling it. Provide safety without disruptive interference.

  Is it not ironic that in parts of the city, it is very unsafe to
  walk around at night, while police will aggressively respond to a
  party that doesn't have the proper "permits"? What's wrong with this
  picture? -Sean]

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Dancing in the dark can get you arrested in
Des Moines.

The city is using a 1950s ordinance to crack down on all-night dance
parties known as ``raves.'' Officials say they're concerned about
safety, underage drinking and noise.

Organizers of raves say young people are being singled out unfairly.

``We just want to be able to dance longer -- that's the whole idea,''
Chris Goodwin said. ``We want to offer Des Moines something for the
youth to do.''

Raves, with their hard bass, techno-music and outrageous light shows,
became popular in Europe before reaching the United States.  They
caught on in 1992 in Des Moines, where raves have been held mostly in
warehouses.

City officials were investigating whether a planned rave had proper
noise and fire permits when they discovered an ordinance that barred
dancing after 2 a.m., said Cara Gill, an administrative assistant to
the city manager.

City Councilman Tom Vlassis said no one had been charged under the
ordinance for 10 years until the past month, when three people were
charged. The penalty is 30 days in jail or a $100 fine. The cases are
pending.

``It's not a move to stop raves. It's not a move to stop dances,''
Vlassis said. ``It's a move to define what the citizens of Des Moines
want and to help protect the citizens of Des Moines.''

For example, Gill said, raves shouldn't be allowed to operate all
night in residential areas if businesses there can't. And raves
shouldn't be allowed to play loud music all night if bars have to turn
down the volume.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 19:38:18 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 19:38:01 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: words from down unda'
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Since it has been a slow day, I figured this wouldn't hurt the 
traffic too much to post.  Enjoy.

--- Forwarded mail from Karl Cornel <cornel@ist.flinders.edu.au>

>From cornel@ist.flinders.edu.au Mon Apr  4 17:21:06 1994
Received: from nova.cs.flinders.edu.au (nova.cs.flinders.edu.au [129.96.41.2]) by soda.berkeley.edu (8.6.8/PHILMAIL-1.10) with SMTP id RAA03625; Mon, 4 Apr 1994 17:21:00 -0700
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To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu
Cc: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Full Moon Parties, Renegade parties, and Site Finding
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 09:52:02 +0930
From: Karl Cornel <cornel@ist.flinders.edu.au>
Status: OR

Howdy , Brian and whoever else is reading this, I,m from Oz and read
your little article about "outdoor" raves as we call them and sounds
like you have a lot of trouble putting these things on. Down here
(in Adelaide) we don't seem to have all that much trouble with cops
etc and venues are much easier to find due to the fact that there is
a lot of open space around here. The way we seem to get around the
cop situation is by only letting out the location of the rave hours
before it actually begins by the way of a pre-arranged meeting place
around town. The best idea we have had was to put a rave out in the
middle of a vineyard in the Barrossa Valley, put up a marquee shove
in some speakers, lights etc and away you go, the cops didn't show
their faces at all and everyone had a good time. The best type of
venues are the ones you find accidentally. No alcohol is the best
medicine as far as no problems with d...heads are concerned just fly
high on your own adrenalin or maybe with some extra help from some
little tablet etc.! 
What is the music like over there? Down here in Adelaide we are
mainly into the Hardcore style of music (Lenny Dee etc) but some
pommie DJ that was down here called it a bit like Jungle music. By
the way Carl Cox is a fucking legend!!
If you liked to write back about your "rave" scene and tell me about
it cause I write for the local dance/rave magazine and could do an
article about how different our scene is compared to yours!
See Ya later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--- End of forwarded message from Karl Cornel <cornel@ist.flinders.edu.au>


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 20:35:30 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 20:35:11 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404050335.UAA01969@well.sf.ca.us>
To: delaja00@dons.ac.usfca.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re:  From the cookie monster
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

The ridiculous position of Needless 
Markup over the cookie recipe provides a perfect intro to a question
that's been on my mind since YSH:

Why is sugar so much a part of raving?  Isn't that (bleached) stuff
really unhealthy?

Aren't there better things to use to keep your juice up & mouth wet?

Inquiring minds (and a few mindless ones) want to know.
peach,
alpha-10

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 21:14:03 1994
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From: Greg Richards <gregrich@microsoft.com>
To: drenalin@duckmail.uoregon.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon,  4 Apr 94 21:13:37 PDT
Subject: RE: west coast rave..
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


...and similarly we (the ChocLit Factory and other groups up in 
Seattle) would be WAY up for pulling together and throwing in on this.  
We have some upcoming events (indoor and outdoor) in the works, and 
this (IMHO) would be a _sweet_ way to widen the range of full-spectrum 
celebration.  Drop an e~signal, let's get on it!

	>>Greg

P.S.  It was _so_ great to have you up to visit, GeoffW.  Come back soon!

	q8^)

----------
>From: Scott Michael Nelson  <netmail!drenalin@duckmail.uoregon.edu>
>To:  <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
>Subject: west coast rave..
>Date: Sunday, April 03, 1994 10:57PM
>
>
>	Someone mentioned tryiong to throw a rave somewhere in between
>Seattle/Vancouver and SF meaning approxiamately Portland or Eugene! well
>I reside in Eugene currently and just went to the phatest party last
>night.  The vibe was great (I was feeling phresh from my Liquid Air
>rejuvanation) and people came out to make it a great night.  I talked to
>Raymon who threw the party and he said that he would be willing to help
>throw this west coast thingee, there is another promoter Sky who I'm
>friends with and he would help too I'm sure.  So if you guys want to use
>these 'resources' give me a ring on the 'ol e-line and I'll Connect you
>to what's going on in Eugene (we've got two raves coming up this month
>and Psychic TV is playing this next weekend lots more things happening up
>here it's great!)
>
>The Cloud Factory (back in action!)
>
>DJ Adrenalin
>
>"What I love about her is she still dances when the music stops..."
>					-anonymous
>"Scott, keep dancing to the music that no one else can hear."
>			-Tyla, a yearbook farewell
>
>

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr  4 23:50:04 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 23:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: oooo dante
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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i got a message from Dante...he has a new place in sf..and is going to 
spin at together this week...he is closeing the house down from 2:30-3:30 
wheee...there has been some debate in the past on neraves about the 
softening of dante..and his move out here *i guess he use to play really 
hardbeats but now is into the more housey stuff* ...who knows...see ya 
there...susie (;

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 02:22:50 1994
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From: chinacat@netcom.com (J. Petersen)
Message-Id: <199404050923.CAA19419@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Des Moines cracks down on raves
To: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 02:23:47 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404050143.AA14815@pilot.njin.net> from "Sean Casey" at Apr 4, 94 09:43:06 pm
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> noise and fire permits when they discovered an ordinance that barred
> dancing after 2 a.m.
> 

> ordinance for 10 years until the past month, when three people were
> charged. The penalty is 30 days in jail or a $100 fine. The cases are
> 

Wait a minute. What is illegal: organizing a dance (in which case
the three people are the organizers), or the physical dancing
(in which case the three people are three ravers who were dancing)?

If it's the latter, this is too funny. The article says the
orginance bars 'dancing after 2 a.m.'... what if you're dancing
at home??  8-)

If it's the former, that's too bad, but I really can't say I'm
surprised. I grew up in southern Minnesota (not all that far
from Des Moines) and you're talking about an area of the
country that closes liquor stores at 8pm and bars at 1am. And
doesn't allow liquor sales on Sunday. Get the picture? The
whole world isn't like S.F...

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jim Petersen                              Argue for your limitations...
chinacat@netcom.com                            And they are yours


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 08:56:22 1994
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 21:00:00 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: MESS April 2
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Correction:

>VIVID
>in memory of Gabriel Cesar
>Friday, April 8

>>>>>  Wool. Drew, James(SC), Scottie & Stonie, Ethan, Meme

>(415) 292-3289

take it easy
ethan



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 10:35:31 1994
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Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 10:39:09 -0700
To: Greg Richards <gregrich@microsoft.com>, drenalin@duckmail.uoregon.edu,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: andy@mailhost.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Subject: RE: west coast rave..
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At 09:13 PM 4/4/94 PDT, Greg Richards wrote:
>>	Someone mentioned tryiong to throw a rave somewhere in between
>>Seattle/Vancouver and SF meaning approxiamately Portland or Eugene!

The Grateful Dead are playing afternoon shows in Eugene on June 17-19.
They let people camp in the parking lots all night last year.
Atomic Dog???

                         &andy
                         KC1IP/6
                         the tie-dyed side of the force
                         


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 12:00:34 1994
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Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 12:00:22 PDT
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Message-Id: <9404051900.AA29484@dre.hal.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: oh yeah!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I (we) need some help/info/input.

The SJ Women's Collective _will_ be hosting free, outdoor 
events every 3rd Sunday of the month. Yes, that means 
April 17. The location is La Raza picnic area in Hellyer 
park. This location has bathrooms, picnic tables, a 
barbeque pit, and a small, but more than sufficient, 
bandstand and dance floor. 

These events are being modeled after Emma's Easter 
Birthday Party- which happened this past weekend.
I would guess about 150 people showed up. Mei Lwun, 
Wool, Julius Papp, Harry Who, and Rick Preston laid the 
dope egg beats out on the grass for us to hunt for. 
There was no particular order- whoever brought records 
was welcome to play. We would like this open format to 
continue, though it does depend on people showing up.
(Here's where you come in) If you want to play, just let 
me know. Being a women's collective, we're especially 
interested in having some women play. with any luck at 
all, we'll be luring Tara our way for the next go, and
Harry Who has said that he would like to play as well.

And speaking of playing- there were lots of frisbees,
hackey-sacks, soccer balls, complete whiffle ball-n-bat
sets, dogs, food, kids, etc.... but NO alcohol!
(well, maybe I did see a few beers coiffed with the 
utmost of discretion and mellowness.) So, bring your toys,
kids, friends, anything and everything to share.
And, yes, the barbeque pit was on fire!

The park rangers stopped by to say a very courteous hello,
and went on their merry way. the police also stopped by, 
checked the permits, said hello, and went on their merry way.

If all goes well with the rangers and the cleanliness of the site, 
we are hoping to leave a rolling trash deposit ($100) to hold 
the site every 3rd Sunday. For the deposit, we have the space from
8 am 'til dusk; but we'll probably start around noon or one.
The SJ women's collective will also pick up the sound permits 
($165 per gig, non-refundable). 

Here's what we need help with: you guessed it: the equipment!
turntables & sound system. We have (owned outright) a 
generator (It's sitting in Emma's garage), but a generator 
does not a party make. Any ideas where we might find something 
fairly cheap? *wink*nudge*nudge* Scottie? Bryce? Ethan?

Any other ideas? Wanna spin? Let me know, and mark your calendars.

Take care-

Jocelyn

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 12:09:15 1994
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From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Message-Id: <199404051909.MAA27739@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Easter Weekend rave report
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Weekend Rave report
-------------------

Sorry to be a tad late on this one,   but Internet Connections
between WELL and Netcom were flakey at best.    Anyway,   here 
is what happened this weekend through my eyes and experience.

After dancing my ass off at "Your Sisters House" (YSH) this last
Thursday,   and being as strong as I have ever been,   I was "Chomping
at the bit" to get into even more dancing and raving this weekend.

So I check the SFRaves calander and see the following events to
attend this weekend...

Saturday, April 2nd - The One-Year Reunion of the Mother Earth Sound System
        Brad  Scottie  Stonie  Markie
        around 3 pm to about 11 pm
        'This'll be a picnic-flavor party, complete with veggie BBQ and other
        goodies.  It'd be great if we could make this a pot-luck type
        gathering, so if you can bring some grub, please do!
        Remember, "Always free, always outdoors" 
        Location info: (510) 814-2402  (415) 487-7655

Saturday, April 2nd - Basics + Come/Unity
        Garth  Tony  Josh  Simon  Doran  Jeno  & Dubtribe  
        in the ambient room: jason  nick philip  jonah
        - planned for outdoors -
        415.905.9629  415.241.8815
        [no "first Wednesday" Come/Unity this month]

As seen above,   it looks like two really great events were planned,
so I could go to both,  and I did.

Unfortunately,   due to a lot of work I had to do this weekend,
I couldn't get down to the "One year Reunion of MESS until sometime
after 9 pm,   but when I arrived,   the scene was really hopping,
it was FREE,  and had a wonderful time warming up,  getting ready for
Basics + Come/Unity.   Unfortunately,  the pigs busted it up fairly early,
but did happen to get in a lot of dancing before that happened.

We arrived at the site (Which I will NOT disclose this time,  due
to a lot of flack I got from earlier postings),  which we had no problem
finding.

The site was really great...   A grassey park,   pretty far removed
from other places,  so noise shouldn't be a problem.  

The vibe was really great,   luv phasers were shooting all over the
place,  smiles and happy faces on just about everyone.    Really
fun time...  The cop that shut us down was fairly nice,   and after
the music stopped,  we were asked to sit around in a circle and were
thanked for showing up and having a good time.

Afterwards,  we had to go back to SF,  and pick up a few more friends 
before heading out to Come/Unity,  which was held out at the Livermore 
racetracks.   This was at the same place the Gathering was held last 
4th of July.   When we got to the site,  it was really windy, dusty 
and cool.    Lyons handled the security,  and all cars had to be 
searched for weapons,  and other things,  but we didn't mind that.    
The cost was a whopping $20 to get in (Rather steep in my opinion),  
but the sound system was totally awsome.

Huge banks of speakers really filled the area with clean bassey sounds,
and almost ANYWHERE in the area was suitable for dancing.   

Once I started dancing,  I didn't mind the cold and the wind,  and after
a while,  eventually the cold wind failed to cool me down.   It sure was 
great to be able to dance for hours at a time without over-heating,  but 
with  the intense sound energy and my insane dancing,   I had to eventually
stop and cool down.   Yow!  I went totally beserk...    

I must have missed DubTribe,  or been totally spaced out to have not
noticed them,  but the other DJ's  Simon especially really gave me
a total workout.   I think I danced his entire set non-stop.  Oh!
How I love those outside raves...

When Jeno went on,  I practically left the planet...  was out there 
among the stars somewhere.   As Dawn was approaching,  I was still going
strong,  all the way till the end,  then eventually, Jeno faded out the
music.    People yearned for more,  but when Mertin finally gave the
go-ahead for one more song,   the power had already been cut.

We finally packed our stuff,  and headed out to the car for the very long
2 hour drive back to SF.   Somehow I finally made it back,  and we head
for the new re-encarnation of Boogy Buffet,  now called "Light-n-up",
with a new type of acid jazz (Slighly different),   but no $2 breakfast
like before (I really miss that).   Light-n-up was held at 1015 Folsom
st.    Same as Boogey Buffet,   and promoted by Preston.

I also stopped by "Good Houskeeping" at 1190 Folsom st.   But the place
was practically deserted.   They did serve breakfast there,  but with
no money,   I headed back to Light-n-up.

This Easter Sunday was the opening night of Light-n-up,  so it wasn't
as crowded as the origional Boogy Buffet.   I suspect thats to change
as more and more people realize it's back again.

I also visited the End Up of course,   as it was a warm and beautiful
day.  It's really great to have 3 after-parties all within close walking 
distance to each other.

I finally left the End-up around 5 pm dancing all Sunday as well,
still going strong.    We went into Daylight time on Sunday as
well,  so had lots of daylight for my after-rave hike to the waterfalls
near where I live. 

I'm really glad to see the scene this year will be yet another raving
year for me,  and I yearn for the chance to travel to other places and
raves sometime this summer.

Keep the scene alive and kickin...
Cap'n Crunch

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 12:38:02 1994
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Date: 05 Apr 94 15:32:55 EDT
From: Gregory Harrison <73133.2775@CompuServe.COM>
To: "RAVES, San Fran" <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Smart Drinks?
Message-Id: <940405193255_73133.2775_FHF57-2@CompuServe.COM>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hello everyone,

Forgive me, for i am rather new to the rave scene, but what exactly are smart
drinks?  from what little i know of them, they are juices with a healthy supply
of amino acids, vitamins, etc???  but i imagine there's more to it all... 
 
greg


ip is a go at all I'll have the group get
in touch with you.... thanks again!!!

Peace,
Greg


-eat life in a love tribe -


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 13:40:37 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 13:40:21 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: The Eighth House (new and improved)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I just got off the phone with Philip and here's the deal on
the Eighth House.

He's moved the parties to Sunday nights.  The next one is this 
Sunday, April 10.  There will be ambient in the lounge area,
and the main dance floor will open later (11 pm) with a live
performance by Sir Sensual, and with DJs Alex and Jonah.  It
will only go to about 2pm.

Location is the same as last time, the Oasis at 11th and Folsom.
Rumor has it they've cleaned up the sound system.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 15:36:13 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404052235.PAA28188@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Ameba Battered
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 15:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
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Ameba will do a booth at friday Apocolypse Hardcore at HAZE because i 
want to be battered.

Sunday Tofu Ambient BBQ followed by Film , BBQ lit at 5pm.
Bring BBQ ables , blankets, records till one hour after dark.

Geoff White contact me....good news.

salutations, allen@ameba


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 16:12:36 1994
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Date: 05 Apr 94 19:09:20 EDT
From: Gregory Harrison <73133.2775@CompuServe.COM>
To: SFRaves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Smart Drinks
Message-Id: <940405230919_73133.2775_FHF96-1@CompuServe.COM>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Laura,

thanks for the info... now are these drinks comprised of things you can buy at
any old store... and where would one get "recipe" info for drinks like this?

Also, you mention feeling "effects" from drinking smart drinks daily after a 6
month period... what are the effects?... and lastly, why are they connected to
the rave scene? (i can guess the answer to the last question: as an alternative
source of energy to other more "synthetic" forms?)

I also so heard that the term "smart drink" refers to the fact that many of the
amino acids and vitamins reportedly enhance mental functioning, awareness,
improve memory, etc... true?

greg


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr  5 19:04:50 1994
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Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathryn Ankrum <kathank@crl.com>
Reply-To: Kathryn Ankrum <kathank@crl.com>
Subject: Come/Unity
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Hey friends!

I heard today through the rumor mill that Come/Unity is in fact happening 
tomorrow (Wednesday) night.  The info line confirmed it.  DJs are Simon, 
Jeno and Garth.  Location info will be available tomorrow. The C/U number 
is 415-241-8815.

Kathryn




From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 00:31:18 1994
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From: cvoigt@flute.aix.calpoly.edu
Message-Id: <9404060730.AA52685@flute.aix.calpoly.edu>
Subject: delete, a test
To: che@flute.aix.calpoly.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 00:30:26 -0800 (PDT)
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 please delete this it is only a test

thx
(:-)
CHE


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 00:51:48 1994
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From: cvoigt@flute.aix.calpoly.edu
Message-Id: <9404060752.AA63434@flute.aix.calpoly.edu>
Subject: radio show
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 00:52:11 -0800 (PDT)
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howdy all

as some of you may know i am currently going to college down at cal
poly.  that would be 4 hours south of SF.  I work at the college radio
station here.  after a ton of work and all i have gotten all the things
together and had a house/acid/trance/tribal show. (yeah!!!)

It is called RHYTHUM ASYLUM and is on 10-11pm on monday nights

thru trial by fire im learning alot.  but i have two messages for the
net:

1) i would like to get as many differnt sounds and styles on the air as
possible so if any of the DJ's out there would like to get there set on
here is a formal (well kinda formal) request for it.  Dont really expect
any one to drive 4 hrs down here (if you want to great).  rather, maybe
a tape mixed for the show and an interview would be the best.  if your
intrested mail me.

2) for those of you that are involved in record labels (house music OR
ANYTHING ELSE) or involed with bands etc and you would like to get air
play talk to me and i'll get the stuff promo'd to the people here.  no
promises about pushing it thru.  KCPR is the station, it is somewhere in
the top 20 college ststions nation wide. mail me or call 805.782.4544
(my home)

ill be a wicked this weekend hpoe to see ya there

CHE



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 01:11:25 1994
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From: cvoigt@flute.aix.calpoly.edu
Message-Id: <9404060811.AA58289@flute.aix.calpoly.edu>
Subject: varity in the mix
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 01:11:47 -0800 (PDT)
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this is a quick note on different styles in the mix;

i like it. recently in my mixing im tring more and more to mix stuff up
style wise.  im tring to get that sound that goes from acid to diva
sampled house and bach to acid or acid trance.  here is why other than i
simply like parts of both sounds.  acid is a harder edge that gets me
moving and trips me BUT too much dark stuff and i feel like a T800
(moive ref.)  now the houser and euro sounds are warmer and makes feel
warm and good BUT too much (especially diva) makes me feel like im in
saturday night fever (another moive ref) SO these sounds and feelings
balance each other out, like chocolate and peanut butter they can go
together nicly

(:-)
CHE



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 01:28:14 1994
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From: robertj308@aol.com
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Message-Id: <9404060425.tn467264@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 94 04:25:56 EDT
Subject: Basics-Jazid Up-"Bass Closing Party"
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I went to Jazid Up on Monday night....Yeah, it was clubby, yeah it was very
hot on the dance floor, yeah, the dance floor was crowded, but  Mark Farina
and Julius are the real SpinDocors.  They both were working it!!! Trancey,
funkadunk and ravey.........God, you gotta like horns...Brass and Big Bass. 
It touched my homesick Chicago soul. On a Monday night..packed from 11.00 to
4:00am. I drove back down to Monterey, and it felt like a ghost town. I'm
starting not to like my little paradise by the sea. Would someone please move
it 100 miles up the coast, so my Beemer doesn't die a premature death?

However, I've plans to create a rave scene here by throwing a few renegade
parties in the summer. I'm be asking some of you for advice, and invite you
all to a Big Sur Renegade, or a Carmel Valley Renegade party.  Would you come
down to celebrate the closing of Fort Ord? "A Bass Closing
Renegade"...........

Anyway, I did make it to Basics. Driving near 3 hours to get there, I pull
off before Vasco Rd and run right into Cap Crunch in a gas station.  I was
happy to be going back to the site of my first rave, Let Freedom Rave.....on
July 4th.  Now I know why my friends were so excited that it was my first
rave because it was so great. By comparison, (and comparisons can be so
cruel) I was disappointed in the Basics turnout. Fear of Rain? Easter
Weekend? Why didn't they come? I didn't feel a real connected vibe there
either ( or maybe just me?) 

Sound system was cranking, Simon and Josh wore me out. I'm still spitting the
dust out of my mouth. 

I'm going to Motion on Wed. to see Garth and Rick Preston. Hope to see some
sfravers there.  Oh well, another 500 mile weekend. See ya!!
Robertj..........Monterey Rave Posse...DJ Roadmaster.....Dj MotorHead, aka.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 02:28:13 1994
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 02:28:04 -0700
In-Reply-To: robertj308@aol.com
        "Basics-Jazid Up-"Bass Closing Party"" (Apr  6,  4:25am)
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Ford Ord -- great idea.  When does the Army finally clear out?  There
would be *no problem* finding any number of good out of the way spots
there, but there are old ordnance areas and other spots which need
to be avoided, and by all means stay well away from the racetrack.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 06:57:32 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404061358.GAA26182@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: Tomorrow's South Bay Lunch
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 06:58:24 -0700 (PDT)
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 This is a reminder for tomorrow's South Bay Lunch - if the weather
looks good , I'll see you there , with my "boom box" -
				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

When: Thursday  
Time: 12.00 noon
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
  Northbound: Past San Antonio Road 
  Southbound: Past University Avenue 

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Turn into the first 
  driveway on your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll , behind the round baseball fence.
  Next to the restrooms and ball courts.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!





From bbehlen  Wed Apr  6 09:52:37 1994
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From: bbehlen@techno.Stanford.EDU (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 09:52:29 PDT
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To: sfraves
Subject: a few forwards...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Watch those "To:" fields, kidz...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From robcamp@seas.gwu.edu  Fri Apr  1 04:31:04 1994
From: "Robert N. Campanell" <robcamp@seas.gwu.edu>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 94 07:30:56 -0500
To: ne-raves@umdd.umd.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Documentary about our community

  PLUR is a forthcoming documentary about the rave/house community.  It
  focuses on every aspect of the community and the people who have
  made it a central part of their lives for the past few years. 
  
  The theme of this documentary is look at the rave/house community in
  1994.  The primary audience is the community itself.  We
  intended to create an introspective documentary. Our goal is to
  give an accurate description of the positive contributions our
  community has made to society.
  
  The following is list of activities that people are doing that
  define the community.
  
  
                                Musicians
                              Computer nets
                                   DJs
                   Graphic Artists who make the flyers
             The people who treasure their flyer collections
                              Photographers
                             Event promoters
                             Scene promoters
                People who organize bus rides to events.
                  People who organize charitable events
                              Video Artists
                           Record store owners
                           Clothing designers
                            'Zine publishers
                              Smart drinks
                                     
  
  This documentary is being produced by Rob Campanell and Todd
  Porter Boedeker.  Rob will cover the east coast (DC, Balt.
  Philly, NYC) and Todd will cover the San Francisco area.  We
  intend to conduct interviews from April through May.  Expected
  completion date is September 1994.
  
  We intend to submit the documentary for broadcast on U Network, a
  national network of college television stations.  Both Rob and
  Todd have been involved with programs on U Network.  Rob is the
  producer of "Cyberia"; Todd has been the host of "Video
  Underground".  They have also produced and directed music videos for
  techno acts Paperboy 2000 and Axon.
  
  We would like your support for this project.  We have been
  involved in the community since it's early days here in the
  U.S.  We believe it's special and feel there is a need to present
  a sincere video document about the community.
  
  Our goal is to portray the rave/house community that we know, in the
  best way that we can, in 28 minutes.  It might not be as complete
  as some people would like, but we hope it will be sincere and
  honest.
  
  
  Rob Campanell
  Todd Porter Boedeker
  
  
  P.S.  A limited quanity of video will be available for purchase.  At 
  this point, we are focusing our efforts on getting the project completed.  
  We will post information on how to obtain a copy of the video at a later 
  date.
  


----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From sybex!afeinber@netcom.com Tue Apr  5 10:45:21 1994
Date:  Tue, 05 Apr 94 09:32:39 PDT
From: Alissa Feinberg <AFEINBER@sybex.com>
Sender: afeinber@sybex.com
To: <sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Subject:  Re: Dancing & Jewelry

My wedding ring also used to throw me off (when I had a ring...we're 
still married but ringless). Oddly enough, part of the reason we're now 
ringless is that we were both having centering problems. Also our 
lifestyles just don't support ring-wearing.

In martial arts classes my instructors would insist on my taking off ALL 
jewelry, mostly because of the safety hazard, but I was also told that 
the jewelry would throw "off" my perception and awareness..

While dancing I did notice that I compensated, got used to it and 
became able to focus on other things again. For dancing or other 
non-threatening experiences it took a few months to get balanced out. 
In emergency situations (getting mugged) I didn't notice the jewelry at 
all.

In meditation these days I do notice my jewelry. It does seem to effect 
the flow of energy, especially on my ears where the pierces are not 
symmetrical. I have a tongue piercing (centered) which becomes 
REALLY enhanced during meditation, though in dancing it has never 
bothered except that I do worry if I'm playing with it that I'll bite my 
tongue! Over time I've been able to work with it by focusing on it and 
then forcing myself to move on to other things.

I think you'll probably get used to your ring, though the "rave ring" idea 
is great and you will be truly more balanced.

Alissa


----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From sybex!afeinber@netcom.com Tue Apr  5 13:55:24 1994
Date:  Tue, 05 Apr 94 13:31:18 PDT
From: <AFEINBER@sybex.com>
Sender: afeinber@sybex.com
To: <sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Subject:  Re:  From the cookie monster

Is anyone else out there REALLY tired of all this "cookie monster" 
stuff?

Alissa

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 09:54:15 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404061652.JAA05362@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, kathank@crl.com
Subject: Re: Come/Unity
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU




	yes indeed there WILL BE a Come/Unity tonight,
	they lost money on the Basics/ComeUnity and this is an emergency
	party so that Mal can pay his rent.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 10:25:22 1994
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:25:00 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404061725.AA24198@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: robcamp@seas.gwu.edu
Subject: Re: Documentary about our community
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


>   The theme of this documentary is look at the rave/house community in

>   The following is list of activities that people are doing that
>   define the community.
>      
>                                 Musicians
>                               Computer nets
>                                    DJs
>                    Graphic Artists who make the flyers
>              The people who treasure their flyer collections
>                               Photographers
>                              Event promoters
>                              Scene promoters
>                 People who organize bus rides to events.
>                   People who organize charitable events
>                               Video Artists
>                            Record store owners
>                            Clothing designers
>                             'Zine publishers
>                               Smart drinks
   
Don't forget to include people who actually go to events, i.e. ravers.

Lee

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 10:32:35 1994
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:32:14 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
Cc: robcamp@seas.gwu.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: Lee Fogel's message of Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:25:00 PDT <9404061725.AA24198@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Documentary about our community
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


of course there are many others too:

tapers
sound people
"collectives" / "posses"
"rave store" owners

not sure if these groups exist as much outside of SF, but they
definitely exist here in ways which contribute to the scene.

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 11:16:49 1994
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 14:15:52 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404061815.AA04155@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: You're on Film!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Okay, so like I'm dancing, really jammin having a wonderful time, and
I realize that someone has been videotaping me. I don't mind...I've
thought of taping a few events myself.

But it disturbs me to think that I might end up in a video in a store
someday. That people outside the scene, who don't _understand_, might
be watching me and judging me.

I like to think of raves as a TAZ, a private space where one can be
totally free with one's mind and body. That's pretty hard to do when
there's a video camera pointed in your direction. It's worse when one
finds out that such videos have been copied and sold in stores to
anyone who wants to buy them.

Strictly speaking, selling such a videotape is illegal because it is
not news, people are clearly identifyable, and there is no release
form signed. That's invasion of privacy, and can be punished with some
fairly stiff penalties. As a photographer, it's pretty routine for me
to get model releases of people I photograph. Otherwise, distributing
or selling the photos is out of the question.  Some of these
videotapes don't seem to be made with the same consideration, and that
bothers me. If it were consentual (a very important word in my
vocabulary), that would be fine. But so far I've never seen a
videographer asking permission or getting model releases, or even an
event ticket that says "You may be taped without compensation."
(Which, by the way, only allows extremely limited use of the images.)

So far, I'm not a victim. I try and avoid videotapers, and I forgive
the disruption. But if I were victimized, I'd ask the producer not to
sell the tape, and aggressively pursue it in court if refused.

Well, that's my views on being taped...

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 11:23:56 1994
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From: baron@netcom.com (Baron Arnold)
Message-Id: <199404061824.LAA07787@netcom10.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Documentary about our community...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 11:24:55 -0700 (PDT)
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 From baron Wed Apr  6 11:20:09 1994
 Subject: Re: Documentary about our community
 To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 11:20:09 -0700 (PDT)
 In-Reply-To: <9404061725.AA24198@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM> from "Lee Fogel" at Apr 6, 94 10:25:00 am
 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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 > 
 > 
 > >   The theme of this documentary is look at the rave/house community in
 > 
 > >   The following is list of activities that people are doing that
 > >   define the community.
 > >      
 > >                                 Musicians
 > >                               Computer nets
 > >                                    DJs
 > >                    Graphic Artists who make the flyers>
 > >              The people who treasure their flyer collections
 > >                               Photographers
 > >                              Event promoters
 > >                              Scene promoters
 > >                 People who organize bus rides to events.
 > >                   People who organize charitable events
 > >                               Video Artists
 > >                            Record store owners
 > >                            Clothing designers
 > >                             'Zine publishers
 > >                               Smart drinks
 >    
 
 Even more than the physical realities, even more than the enhanced 
 realities, even more than the ravers themselfs, there are the 'epic 
 adventures' some of us have taken to get to, or home from a party. 
 
 I remember 3500 kids at the santa rosa fairgrounds, all kicked on to the 
 highway at 7am, kicked out of a party they thought would go till 
 11. Camped out in an isuzu work truck with a broken speedo, searching 
 for a radio station we could stand, the pickup drove itself past 85-90 
 cars with 'if' stickers and flower stickers and drivers with sunglasses to 
 dim the morning sun, all trying to color between the lines, south 
 down 101, south back to the city, through farms with no fences, 'cause 
 the cows can't go that far from home.
 
 Out side the fairground gates there was an old man sitting at a stop 
 sign, probly on his way to the hardware store to buy a tool to fix 
 something, that gently asked me and my friend as we crossed in front of 
 his car, "What's goin' on at the fairgrounds this morning?" and Jon 
 turned and said with a smile, "Nothin' man. Just a dance party..."
 
 -baron
 
 


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 11:42:32 1994
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 11:42:00 -0700
From: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404061842.LAA18763@soda.berkeley.edu>
To: baron@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Documentary about our community...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

By the way you all, don't panic about the documentary Rob Campenell
posted about.  Most of you all don't know Rob because he's living
in DC, but he's been going to illegal warehouse parties before
they were even called *raves* in the US.

He did a short video for the DCraves group that was very nice.
He knows what he's doing, believe me.  

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 13:50:23 1994
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Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 14:30:46 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@WordPerfect.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Dubtribe
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	I'm attempting to get in contact with somebody from Dubtribe, to
talk about booking them for an underground here in Salt Lake City,
Utah, but I wasn't successful after leaving a message on their voice
mail.  Does anyone know a phone number for their booking agent? 
Thanks in advance for your help.

Luke


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 15:10:00 1994
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Date: 06 Apr 1994 15:07:56 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: Documentary about our community
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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don't ferget us lurkers in LA :)

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 15:27:24 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404062227.PAA17025@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Spiral Jive
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 15:27:07 -0700 (PDT)
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SPiral Jive

Bog, Dave, Jeno, Dante, Tomas(the other one)
Friday the 8th
outside
free
281 8405 in SF nearby the park

salutations, allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 15:50:28 1994
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 15:50:17 -0700
From: Bill Knight <gelal@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404062250.PAA20580@well.sf.ca.us>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Contact
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Saturday April, 23 - CONTACT
dj Jan Cooley
9:30p - ? (free before 10:30p)
2721 Broadway - Sacramento, California
916.484.5661 infoline

Sunday April, 24 - AFTERNOON VIBE
djs Dave Andersen/Tony D./Thomas
4:00p-11:00p
2721 Broadway - Sacramento, California
916.484.5661

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 16:42:24 1994
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From: child@netcom.com (Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild)
Message-Id: <199404062343.QAA08655@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: mixer
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Hi ev-ry-bo-dyyyyy,

I'm a looking for a used mixer that is within my budget.  Anyone of you happen
to be selling a mixer right about now?

Space

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr  6 16:51:00 1994
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From: neilrest@ecotone.toad.com (Neil Rest)
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel) writes:
> There's a lesson to be learned here:  Take a nap, show up late.
More of the lesson is "Bring extra trash bags"!
	furthur,
		Neil

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 01:47:10 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 01:46:31 -0700
From: anthrax@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ann Elizabeth Loraine)
Message-Id: <199404070846.BAA21695@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: new moon
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Saturday is this month's New Moon party - as before, it's free and outdoors.
Bring firewood if you can!  (Maybe a certain person will bring his bubbles
and slinkies? hint hint)

Info:  415-267-3076, Great Day Times voicemail

I will let you know maybe tomorrow or Friday what the dj lineup will be.

*****annthrax

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 01:52:14 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 01:52:02 -0700
From: Kerry Jaggers <jaggedge@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404070852.BAA20320@well.sf.ca.us>
To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, robcamp@seas.gwu.edu
Subject: Re: Documentary...and list of activities that define us
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


In your listing of the people who help define the community I couldn't 
help noticing that there was no reference to the technicians who use 
lighting and atmospherics to enhance the visual aspect, with the 
exception of the Video Artists, whose contribution was duly noted.  

I certainly would suggest getting their support for any endeavor that you 
intend to put on film or tape, unless of course you're shooting in 
natural light!
  

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 09:24:28 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 09:28:02 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: new moon
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  1:46 AM 4/7/94 -0700, Ann Elizabeth Loraine wrote:
>Saturday is this month's New Moon party - as before, it's free and outdoors.
>Bring firewood if you can!  (Maybe a certain person will bring his bubbles
>and slinkies? hint hint)
>
>Info:  415-267-3076, Great Day Times voicemail
>
>I will let you know maybe tomorrow or Friday what the dj lineup will be.
>
>*****annthrax

Mona told me it was *sunday*....calendar agrees.

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 12:07:51 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 12:04:17 -0700
From: anthrax@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ann Elizabeth Loraine)
Message-Id: <199404071904.MAA13203@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: new moon time
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Hi!  There's been a little confusion about the time of the New Moon party, so
I called up Glen & Mona, who are organizing it, to ask what the deal.

According to Glen, the party will start about 4 or so in morning Sunday
morning...that's kind of like Sat. night, I guess!  Since the new moon
(astronomically speaking) is actually during the day sunday, Glen said
that the party will be more of a day party than before.  The idea is also
to take in the sunrise as well as all the beautiful stars!  And then
enjoy the fabulous weather on the beach all day Sunday.

Hope to see you all there!!!

-annthrax

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 12:26:33 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 12:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "D. Ronan Hallowell" <holo@netcom.com>
Subject: VOCE improv voice workshop
To: nrg@netcom.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, mpesce@netcom.com
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There will be a VOCE gathering Fri. 4/8 at  8pm at OM Body Yoga Center
234c Fell St., S.F.

VOCE is an environment of consciousness in which individuals share their 
creative process. These activities are in the shamanic tradition of 
performance, celebration and listening. This organically expanding 
community of creative people is committed to the nurturing of the 
individual voice and self-esteem - personal healing through shared 
creativity.

Check it out. Great vibes. Small donation requested.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 13:01:16 1994
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Sorry to burden the list with this, but I can't seem to get the
sfraves-request infobot to drop me, and I _have_ to be off of this
list by tomorrow morning at the latest.

I'm going to South Africa for the elections.  Every e-mail message I
receive there will cost me a noticable amount of money.

- Erik

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 13:22:44 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Depth Probe: a crystalized web of cultural explorations
Reply-To: ake@lighthouse.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Explore Depth Probe, a crystalized mixture of book reviews, movie reviews,  
music reviews, thoughts, and dreams geared towards exploration of modern  
culture, including: Aristotle, Rousseau, Fellini, and Elvis.

Via World Wide Web:

http://www.omnigroup.com/DepthProbe/index/home.html

Thanks,

@

ake@lighthouse.com
Alan Eyzaguirre

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 13:24:38 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 13:24:24 -0700
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A while ago sfraves was put under "majordomo" list management
software, which made the sfraves-request address obselete.

To get off sfraves mail majordomo@techno.stanford.edu and
put 

unsubs*ribe sfraves

in the body of your message, but replace the * in my example with a c

If you forget this method never fear, subscription information is
appended to the end of the weekly calendar that Larry posts.

I *think* there is a bug in majordomo that can prevent some addresses
from being properly unsubbed.  If you have trouble because of this
let Brian know, he can be reached at brian@techno.stanford.edu
(same address as the sfraves list, just his name, so it's fairly
easy to remember).

If you are having a real emergency, you can try contacting me and I
will prod Brian in person for you.



Wanting to be helpful,

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 13:46:36 1994
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From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFRaves)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 13:48:53 PDT
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Lotsa variety this weekend: housey (Wicked) to technoey (Apocalypse)
to trancey(Test), a benefit (Vivid), freebies (Spiral Jive, new moon
party), big parties (Wicked, Apocalypse), little parties (new moon,
maybe some of the others), indoor parties (Wicked, Test, etc), outdoor
parties (Spiral Jive, new moon party), etc etc.  So there's something
for everyone this weekend!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------- UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA ---------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friday, April 8th - Vivid 
        Wool  Ethan  James (SC)  Drew  Scottie & Stonie  Meme
        $5 w/canned food, in the hills of Santa Cruz.  
        profits will be donated to Santa Cruz shelter, The Pajaro Mission;
        This party is in memory of Gabriel Ceasar, who was killed at a party 
        in Santa Cruz one year ago.  415.292.3289

Friday, April 8th - Apocalypse
        Demigod  Buck  DRC  Frank Nitty  Galen  Binnie  Chris Lum  
        Christophe  DJ Gary  Alex  Kwashi  Mars  Richie  Maxx  Spinner
        R.A.W.(LA) +  NRSHA performing live
        $5.   415.979.8411

Friday, April 8th - Spiral Jive
        Bog, Dave, Jeno, Dante, Tomas (the other one)
        outside, free, in SF near the park.  415.281.8405

Saturday, April 9th - Wicked
        21+, 415.512.5713

Saturday, April 9th - Test
        Downstairs: Takesh, Ethan, Alex & Jonah
        Upstairs: Planet Six sound system w/live ambience and technodub
        Lights by Hyperdelic and Gerry Abrahams
        till 6am.  415.395.8380  415.SOLS666
        ["first in a series of monthly parties aiming to provide an
        alternative to usual S.F sound, more along the lines of
        experimental electronics"]

Saturday, April 9th - Earth House Hold  
        John Howard  Billy  Cyril  Galen
        415.267.6193

Saturday, April 10th - new moon party
        actually begins early Sunday morning, around 4am
        info from Great Day Times: 415.267.3076

Sunday, April 10th - The Eighth House
        DJs Alex and Jonah
        live performance by Sir Sensual
        278 11th St @ Folsom

Thursday, April 14 - Pure Space
        jeno, spun & ernie
        375 11th St at Harrison St, 21+  415.267.0640

Saturday, April 16th - Organic party in the Golden Gate Park Bandshell
        Jeno  Graeme  DJ Dan  Digit  Neon Leon
        11am-6pm

Saturday, April 16th - House
        Chicago Style - Freddy Bain  Lil' John  Orlando
        SF Style - Tommy Rogers
        415.677.7952

Saturday, April 16th - Close Encounters
        DJ Alex  Jonah  Zero  Ethan  Julio See  & special guests
        $7 before 11pm, $10 after.  415.708.5697  415.560.3275

Sunday, April 17th - SJ Women's Collective outdoor party
        in the La Raza picnic area in Hellyer Park
        free!

Friday, April 22nd - Earth Day Wicked
        415.512.5713

Saturday, April 23rd - Organic
        Jeno  Tony  Graeme  DJ Dan  Simon  Markie
        415.266.8215   415.267.6129

Saturday, April 23rd - Contact
        DJ Jan Cooley
        9:30p - ? (free before 10:30p)
        2721 Broadway, Sacramento   916.484.5661 

Sunday, April 24th - Afternoon Vibe
        djs Dave Andersen/Tony D./Thomas
        4:00p-11:00p, 2721 Broadway, Sacramento.  916.484.5661

Saturday, April 30th/Sunday, May 1st - Beltane Wicked
        415.512.5713

Saturday, May 14th - Fundamental
        Spun  Josh  DJ Dan  Ernie Munson  Rick Preston
        Visuals by Donovan, Pure, Ken Stone
        $10, 18+ w/id.  415.487.4339  415.486.9400

Saturday, May 28th - SFRaves presents - In The Light
        Laura, Markie, and guests
        12-6pm, Golden Gate Park at the Bandshell


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies, in the house/techno/acid jazz/etc vein.  Some
of them may have ended - let me know when that happens...

---------------------------- T h u r s d a y --------------------------------

Your Sisters' House - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-435-7575
Universal Groove - Thunder Bay, Berk. 9pm-5am, $5. 415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax - Acid Jazz w/Julius Papp (San Jose)
Lift - Digit, EFX, David Harness & guests - 55 Natoma, SF - 415.267.5984
Inspirations - 610 Coleman Ave, San Jose.  9pm-2am, 18+.
        408.236.2102  415.267.6974

------------------------------ F r i d a y ----------------------------------

Corduroy City  - $5 - call for DJs and location - 415.974.9715
Life/Twirl - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
	DJs include Doc Martin, Aaron O, Pete Avila
Deep - Nikki Rivera, Jason Hayes, Lewis. 6th & Harrison (the End-Up)
Raw - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, David Harness & guests - 540 Howard - 415.243.8181
Ooga Booga - 2600 Watt Ave (upstairs @ country club lanes) - 916.484.4006

---------------------------- S a t u r d a y --------------------------------

Dorothy's Tribe - Neon Leon, Rick Preston, Tommy Rogers & guests
	6am-2pm at the EndUp, 401 6th @ Harrison.  $2.  415.979.4515
Funky Buddha - presented by Spundae - 435 Broadway, 9pm til late.
        Head on House DJs: Simon, Henrik, Ernie, Jay-J, Mic, Eric Lacy, Josh.
        House of Funk & Killa Grooves: Bam Bam, Miquel, Melvin J, John Howard
        21+, $8 before midnite.  415.764.2922
Dig! - DJs George and Charlotte. the Kennel Club, Divisadero & Grove.

------------------------------ S u n d a y ----------------------------------

Groove Morning - 6am-3pm, 18+, $5.  Atlantis, 1st & Harrison.  415.905.6441
Sunday School - Tommy Roger, Aaron O, Swing Kid, Smile-E.  6am-midnight.
        free before 2, $2 after.  the EndUp (6th & Harrison).  415.543.7700
Signs of Life - 375 11th @ Harrison (DNA).  $3, 6am-3pm, 21+
Good Housekeeping - presented by Flavor - w/sound technicians Alfie, James,
        Markie, Harry Who & live guests.  7am-4pm, $4, 21+.  
        spuds & stuff @ 9.  1190 Folsom St, SF.   415.928.2710
Light-n Up - watch for details
Sunset - 2pm-sunset. Free! - 415.985.5264

Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (usually last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Ameba Ambient Tofu BBQ + films - BBQ lit at 5pm; bring BBQables, blankets,
        records.  1732 Haight.
Spundae - various guest DJs - 9pm-5am, 21+, $5 b4 12 - 55 Natoma. 415.974.9389
I-Beam Tea Dance - Neon Leon & others - 5pm-1am. 1748 Haight.
Zuvuya - DJs Josh, Charlotte & guests - 10pm-4am, 1015 Folsom - 415.281.8494

------------------------------ M o n d a y ----------------------------------

Mushroom Jazz (Jazid Up)- acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is,
	Alex, Kevin, Bob Taylor and/or Julius Papp.
	$4, 10pm-4am.  1190 Folsom St, 21+. 415-905-8811
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@ Montgomery) in San Jose.
Pepper - djs buck & digit - 510 larkin @ turk  (the old Jacks), 21+

----------------------------- T u e s d a y ---------------------------------

Together/Happiness - 21+, $5, 1015 Folsom - 10pm-3:30am - 415-979-8825
Check - rare grooves & house - Alfie, James & guests - 
        the I-Beam, 1748 Haight @ Cole.  21+, $2.  415.668.6006
Body and Soul - Larry Blakes, Berkeley 10pm-2am, acid jazz and funk $3

--------------------------- W e d n e s d a y -------------------------------

Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X). 21+.  408.236.3787
Fixx - Jan Cooley, Phillip, Aaron, Neon Leon.  Cocktails, 9th & Howard.
Stone Groove - presented by Bulletproof.  $3, 8pm-2am.
        Miss Pearl's Jam House, 601 Eddy @ Larkin.  info 415.255.7168.
SPAZ (Semi-Permanent Autonomous Zone), 2 sound systems, new DJs and live
        performances each week.  $3, 60 Sixth Street.  info 415 sols666 
N-Tyme - Serving up HOUSE - Bahia, 1600 Market @ Franklin.  $3.
        Doors open at 9:00 pm   D.J. Reuben Mancias L.D. Petty Kimo'n
Recycle - every other Weds w/Carlos, Dutch, Christophe & guests. 415.599.3750
Pacific - 683 Clementina @ 8th (between Folsom & Howard) - 
        Starts at 10pm, $5.  415.985.5264
Gemini - josh, spun, donald glaude, la paix, rick preston, dj dan,
        carlos & dutch.  415.979.4915
Wednesdays -- M2/Spring Cleaning March 1994
       Jellybear, Jay-J and Chris Lum  2260 Van Ness @ Vallejo

------------------------------- Info Lines ----------------------------------

Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087.  Usually has 5-10 listings, updated daily.
Elmo - 415-884-ABCD

------------------------------ Radio Shows ----------------------------------
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Sunday evening 6:30-9pm - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Sunday evening 9-11pm - Universal radio at 89.1 FM.  Trance dance
        and power house.  Guest DJs weekly (SF & East Bay)
Sunday night 10pm-2am - Ambience w/Michael Hayes & David X  KWOD 106.5 (Sac)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe or uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

(type 'u' in place of the '*' - i've taken out the 'u' so this message
 passes thru majordomo's filter)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 14:49:35 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Re: From the cookie monster
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199404050335.UAA01969@well.sf.ca.us>
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On Mon, 4 Apr 1994, Randy Tinkerman wrote:

> Why is sugar so much a part of raving?  Isn't that (bleached) stuff
> really unhealthy?

Because people like them.  I never really liked to chew on Blow Pops.  I 
thought they were too big and they make to want even more water.  I do 
like StarBursts though and original BubbleGum flavor Extra.

> Aren't there better things to use to keep your juice up & mouth wet?

Water is best and then when you're hungry, oranges and bananas are 
great.  I feel so energized after having a nice juicy orange and banana.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 15:00:15 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:06:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Question about 21+ places...
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9404071548.B2925-0100000@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
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Why are some clubs 18+ and others 21+?  If the only difference is that 
one doesn't serve alcohol and the other does, then why are the clubs 21+ 
since alcohol is usually looked down upon away?

(I don't know if I make sense but I hope someone can answer.)


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 15:34:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:34:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter J Schenk <psiborg@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: From the cookie monster
To: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Cc: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404071445.A2925-0100000@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
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On Thu, 7 Apr 1994, Sun Kim wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Apr 1994, Randy Tinkerman wrote:
> 
> > Why is sugar so much a part of raving?  Isn't that (bleached) stuff
> > really unhealthy?
> 
> Because people like them.  I never really liked to chew on Blow Pops.  I 
> thought they were too big and they make to want even more water.  I do 
> like StarBursts though and original BubbleGum flavor Extra.
> 
> > Aren't there better things to use to keep your juice up & mouth wet?
> 
> Water is best and then when you're hungry, oranges and bananas are 
> great.  I feel so energized after having a nice juicy orange and banana.
> 
> 
at Choc-Lit Factory events here in seattle, fruit and vegetable bars are 
made available to the patrons.  like last friday i'd be dancin my ass off
to dimitry's (dee-lite) set then i'd wander over and have a carrot or an 
orange.  it totally hit the spot.

_-_->psiborg<-_-_


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 15:57:08 1994
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From: Don Littlefield II <unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu>
Message-Id: <199404072256.PAA07508@pathogen.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Subject: Weird thing happened...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:56:44 -0700 (PDT)
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Heya all,

This past weekend at Basics I had a very unusual experience (for me). 
Basically what happened was this.  I was dancing.....for how long, I 
dont know.  I remember groovin pretty hard though.  I dont know how much
time had passed, but someone bumped me.  And I opened my eyes (I dance 
with them shut).  I was looking at the hill behind the DJ and it was lit
up by the laser show.  I didnt know where the hell I was.  After a 
second or two I remembered where I was.  It was weird!!!!!!!!  
Like I was groovin so hard I actually forgot about everything that was 
going on around me and entered a dance zombie state.  I was dead sober too 
which made it even a more cool thing.  The only thing I can equate the 
feeling to is being knocked out by a nitrous hit and waking up not knowing 
what happened.  Anyway..  It was cool.    
-- 
                            Don Littlefield II
                         unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu
                    Chico State University, California 


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 16:16:46 1994
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From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: psiborg@halcyon.com, sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Re: From the cookie monster -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	I think that lack of food in general tends to do you in after you've
been at a party for 5 or 6 hours.  I mean, most people probably
haven't eaten since dinner Saturday evening, and the party started at
midnight, so by 6 or 7 in the morning, you're famished.  But, you
probably didn't realize you were famished because the walls are still
melting...  I like to bring quick energy snacks like candy bars and
stuff like that.  Fruit is really good, but it doesn't have very many
calories.  Calories are what you need if you're dancing for a long
time.  So, you could eat pasta all day before the party and get some
good long-lasting calories, or you could eat a Snickers or
something... (and be satisfied :)

>>> Peter J Schenk <psiborg@halcyon.com>  4/7/94, 04:34pm >>>

On Thu, 7 Apr 1994, Sun Kim wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Apr 1994, Randy Tinkerman wrote:
>  > > Why is sugar so much a part of raving?  Isn't that (bleached)
stuff
> > really unhealthy?
>  > Because people like them.  I never really liked to chew on Blow
Pops.  I  > thought they were too big and they make to want even more
water.  I do  > like StarBursts though and original BubbleGum flavor
Extra.
>  > > Aren't there better things to use to keep your juice up &
mouth wet?
>  > Water is best and then when you're hungry, oranges and bananas
are  > great.  I feel so energized after having a nice juicy orange
and banana.
>  >  at Choc-Lit Factory events here in seattle, fruit and vegetable
bars are  made available to the patrons.  like last friday i'd be
dancin my ass off to dimitry's (dee-lite) set then i'd wander over
and have a carrot or an  orange.  it totally hit the spot.



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 16:18:38 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 16:18:18 -0700
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To: Don Littlefield II <unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu>,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Weird thing happened...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

You have acheived trance.

Isn't it cool?

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 18:16:26 1994
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From: child@netcom.com (Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild)
Message-Id: <199404080117.SAA06078@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: Don Littlefield II's message of Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:56:44 -0700 (PDT) <199404072256.PAA07508@pathogen.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Subject: Re: Weird thing happened...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


>with them shut).  I was looking at the hill behind the DJ and it was lit
>up by the laser show.  I didnt know where the hell I was.  After a 
>second or two I remembered where I was.  It was weird!!!!!!!!  

yeah, this happened to me at the July 4th Let Freedom Rave at the same location
a while back.  I didn't know where in this universe I was for what I 
later estimated to be about 5 hours.  That's when I coined this phrase:
someone asks, "where are you?" and I would answer, "I'm lost right here in 
space"
That experience plus a few others I had simultaneously to that one had a great
positive effect upon my Earthly existence.

Space

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 20:33:36 1994
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 20:33:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter J Schenk <psiborg@halcyon.com>
Subject: MESS  --->charles rader
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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for those of you involved with MESS, does charles raeder still hang with 
you guys?  his friends here in seattle are going to storm the bay area in 
a few weeks.  we've lost contact with him since christmas.


see you in the phuture
_-_-_->psiborg<-_-_-_


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr  7 23:11:10 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
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To: unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        laura@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Weird thing happened...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Thu Apr  7 16:52:43 1994
> Return-Path: <SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
> From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 16:18:18 -0700
> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
> To: Don Littlefield II <unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu>,
>         sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: Weird thing happened...
> Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Content-Length: 49
> X-Lines: 5
> Status: RO
> 
> You have acheived trance.
> 
> Isn't it cool?
> 
> Laura
> 
Yeah, and it only gets better from there !

		G

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 02:22:35 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 02:22:19 -0700
In-Reply-To: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
       "Question about 21+ places..." (Apr  7,  3:06pm)
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To: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>, SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about 21+ places...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

On Apr 7,  3:06pm, you proclaimed:
} Why are some clubs 18+ and others 21+?  If the only difference is that 
} one doesn't serve alcohol and the other does, then why are the clubs 21+ 
} since alcohol is usually looked down upon away?
} 
} (I don't know if I make sense but I hope someone can answer.)

Because for most established clubs their main source of income is
alcohol, so they don't even bother trying to get 18+ licenses.  Also,
the city has established a couple arcane loopholes to make getting an
18+ license hard - such as requiring the place to serve food 3 nights
a week, etc.  However, there are places which are 18+ all night, so no
one can tell me it's impossible for places that really care.  I do
remember that around the time of Alternity (October 92?) 1015 Folsom
had a sign in their window saying they were applying for their 18+
permit, but I guess nothing ever came of that.  

The 21+ schism is a lot more dangerous than most people realize, in my
mind, and I think it's contributed to a lot of the friction and
division in the scene here.  In effect, the scene has been sharply
divided between 21+ parties that go on every week (Wicked, anything at
174 King or 1015 Folsom, etc) and 18+ parties (Basics, 16th & Harrison
parties, outdoors, etc).  Only at a couple events - full moons,
Gatherings, Your Sisters' House, etc - do both groups actually have a
chance to interact.  The problem I see is that in my opinion each
fraction needs the other - the younger crowd needs the maturity and
wisdom of the older crowd, and the older crowd needs the dynamicism
and energy and creativity of the younger crowd.  Both groups have
stagnated in the absence of the other.  The clubs used to be a lot
less strict about their age limits, often letting in 18+ after 2am
when they couldn't serve alcohol anyways, but the police have gotten
more severe in their monitoring and punishing, (*3rd* offense -
$125,000!!)  so clubs have really tightened up.


	Unfortunately, those with the power to change this (the club
owners, who fought IN FAVOR of keeping the curfew laws in effect)
don't care, and those who have the power to influence those with the
power (I.e. YOU - the party-goers, the party-throwers, etc) mostly
don't think it matters much, either.  So the schism persists.  Even
though I've crossed the age barrier recently, I'm not going to give
any strictly 21+ place my business, unless they have been trying to
get an 18+ license or allow them in after a certain time.  Period.
I used to say things like the above, and still sneak into 21+ parties,
until someone called me on it amd I realized I was being a hypocrite
by going to 21+ parties.  It's not a problem, really - there are still 
lots of 18+ parties around anyways.  

	Sorry to vent my spleen.... 

	Brian

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 05:14:03 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:13:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tanya Smith <tmsmith@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: From the cookie monster -Reply
To: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
Cc: psiborg@halcyon.com, sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Thu, 7 Apr 1994, Luke Youngblood wrote:

> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 17:14:04 -0600
> From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
> To: psiborg@halcyon.com, sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu
> Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: From the cookie monster -Reply
> 
> 	I think that lack of food in general tends to do you in after you've
> been at a party for 5 or 6 hours.  I mean, most people probably
> haven't eaten since dinner Saturday evening, and the party started at
> midnight, so by 6 or 7 in the morning, you're famished.  But, you
> probably didn't realize you were famished because the walls are still
> melting...  I like to bring quick energy snacks like candy bars and
> stuff like that.  Fruit is really good, but it doesn't have very many
> calories.  Calories are what you need if you're dancing for a long
> time.  So, you could eat pasta all day before the party and get some
> good long-lasting calories, or you could eat a Snickers or
> something... (and be satisfied :)
>  
> Actually, it depends on how long you've been dancing, what you ate 
before, and how much more time you are going to spend engaging in 
physical activity.  
Sounds like your glycogen levels have been depleted.  In order to prevent 
this from happening, eat lots of fruit and complex carbohydrates before 
you dance.  It takes the body longer to break these down; hence, the body 
receives energy in steady amounts for a long period of time.  Simple 
carbohydrates, like candy bars, will give you an immediate rush but will 
leave you feeling taxed when your blood sugar level comes crashing down.  
You really don't need this if you are already crashing from "other 
things".  Instead, drink high fructose drinks, like orange juice.  It has 
lots of carbs and calories and won't leave you exhausted after an already 
exhausting "workout".
Later,
Tanya> 

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 07:10:29 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404081411.HAA04041@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: RE: Weird thing happened ...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 07:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
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Don "unibrow" recently posted a testimonial about trance dancing, here's
my two cents worth , also a question ...

 I got close to a similar state a few times at last week's Your Sister's
House , even before I indulged in smokables. It is really impressive
to get to that state unaided by chemicals , "natural" or manufactured.

 I haven't got as deep for as long as some folks - I tend to be too
concerned about other folks around me. Some folks dance as if other 
people have to watch out for them instead of vice-versa - raving
as a kind of diluted mosh pit. ( Maybe I'm letting one or two person's
dancing styles bug me too much ).

 Question: Is there a correlation to the who the DJ is and the ease of
  dropping into trance? Who are the best trance-induction DJs?

		Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

Don said:
> ...  I didnt know where the hell I was.  After a 
> second or two I remembered where I was.  It was weird!!!!!!!!  
> Like I was groovin so hard I actually forgot about everything that was 
> going on around me and entered a dance zombie state.  I was dead sober too 
> which made it even a more cool thing.  
> -- 
>                             Don Littlefield II
>                          unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 08:39:37 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404081536.IAA12291@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: larryc@netcom.com
Subject: RE: Weird thing happened ...
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

> 
>  Question: Is there a correlation to the who the DJ is and the ease of
>   dropping into trance? Who are the best trance-induction DJs?
> 
> 		Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com

Well speaking as a person who trances (sometimes long and hard), there
is definitely a correlation to who the DJ is.  Now I belive that
different people like different things and each person has a different
"door" into the one, House. The DJs hold the keys, but different DJs can
open the doors of different types of people.  
For me, I have been the deepest with
Jeno, he has played sets that have touched me (I feel) down to an
almost genetic :) level, definitely down to a very subconscious one,
something akin to self hypnosis. The deepest trance that I _ever_
achieved was at a bonny doon full moon in the morning completely sober
at the hands of Jeno.  I'm also a meditator and I must say that I have
reached some deep states of consciousness on the dance floor, many of
them have been with the aid of Jeno.  Currently he is not playing stuff
that sends me directly to this state, (although he can still trance me
out pretty well, at the last Basics I had to be at church by 9 a.m. and
I _couldn't_ be late, so at 7:30 when I saw Jeno getting his crate
together, I got my posse together and bolted outta there cuz' if he got on
and dropped a beat of the good shit, I would _never_ make it out of
there on time :) but he is still a very capable trance DJ for me and
definitely one of my Shamen.  For me right now, the person that plays
the _sickist_  (by this I mean mind altering) is Markie.  I have had a
true out-of-body experience (like looking at yourself and others from
the celing of 1015) at the hands of Markie's spinning. But these are
just the people that can do it consistantly for me,  I have gone out
pretty well to our own Jon D. not to mention Toni, Ernie Munsen, Josh,
and others.  For me the DJ needs to be able to set up a "standing wave" 
of trance energy, this is hard to explaine but on a good night with Jeno,
I like catch this wave and I can ride it for hours, it's not just a tempo
or type of music thing, it's the ability to know _exactly_ what record to play
next, how to tweek the bass and treble and when to phase into it,  it is
alos case of building momentum, suspense and release, but without pushing
too hard too fast, Jeno knows how to bring you closer and cxlose to the edge
of exaustion, pull you back for a while push you a little closer and
just when you think you don't have an ounce of energy left, he drops the
phatest shit you've ever heard, your middle eye pops on, this energy rushes
up your spine, your eye cross and you enter deep trance, in this state, you
can dance for litterally hours with out the use or need of chemicals because
the energy system that you are using is pranic not chemical.
There are different states of trance as well, Jeno's music
tends to open the crown and third eye chakra, whereas the music that
Markie plays, sets off the sacral, heart and eye chakra respectively.
Wailing Diva house is almost entirely a heart  and first Chakra thing.  
It is the expression of agape, the kind of unconditional love for all of 
creation that is only arrived at after experiencing great a tribulation like
opression (because your black or gay or both) of some sort, or violence (
both emotional as well as physical)  where the 
fact that you are still alive to hear it is a personal victory.  It comes from
the same source as gospel music, which has a long history of being a trance
music (though unless you spent time in a black church you wouldn't know this).
In Black Christian churches (especially certain  pentacostal denominations)
there is a state that people reach that is called "gettin happy", where the
music (or preaching or both) over comes the individual and they are "filled
with the spirit", they may put their hands in the air, jump up and down,
shout out, walk up and down the ailes and make other rhymic motions.  There
are churches that have services that are set up to bring the congregation
to a state where this can be experienced.  The music is rthymic and starts out
slow but picks up tempo until it is around 120 BPM and then people start
going-off.  This kind of behaviour is understood, it is considered a blessing,
and people are not stared at or rediculed; in many ways, some black folks
have been "raving" (or trance dancing) for years.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEXUS SYSTEMS/CYBERTRIBE-5 : Voice:(415)965-2384   Fax: (415)473-3062
Editor/Instigator/Catalyst : Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>
Production Crew		   : Universal Movement Trinity <umt@nexsys.net>

        "They might stop the party, but they can't stop the future"

		--PGP Public key available upon request--
     "If I can't trance, I don't want to be part of your revolution"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 09:01:25 1994
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From: phuture@aol.com
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 94 11:59:05 EDT
Subject: Sustenance
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

A couple of personal energy boost favorites, tested extensively biking Mt.
Tam, are Power Bars(especially the chocolate) and Ultra Fuel(which is like
thick Gatorade.)  Most people hate the latter because its thick and sweet
containing complex sugars/simple carbohydrates--but when those calves HURT
and your body burns it can really help.  Power Bars are easier to get used
to.  If you taste one sitting at home you might not be impressed, but once
you eat one when you need it you'll be hooked--they are infinitely better
than a candy bar.  Of course there is never a substitue for LOTS of
water--most people just don't drink enough.

phuture


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 11:18:49 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:18:34 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: the  misinformation superhighway
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


is paved with good intentions

I messed up.

It is DEREK not Larry who is doing the weekly calendar.

Brian tells me his address at techno is bbehlen@techno.stanford.edu
(although I could have sworn I've gotten mail from his as brian, but who knows
anymore, I think my brain is dying from watching too much Beevis and 
Butthead).

Heh heh heh huh huh ehe  mailing lists are COOL.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 11:21:49 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404081801.LAA12540@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: raving and Sexual love response
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



	So far, I have received about 4 responses to my survey,
	I'm a little surprised and don't know exactly what this means.
	I had expected to be either flamed by various factions or accoused
	of starting a flame war but I was not ready for... silence.
	The low tunrnout could be for one or more of the following reasons:

	1)The question's were way too intimate for most people and they
	were afraid to answer.

	2)It's spring break and people are either unsubbed or haven't plowed
	through those 100 messages to get to mine.

	3) Talking about these matters is _really_ uncomfortable for the people
	on the list.

	4) People on the list have not/ are not having enough sexuallove
	experiences that they feel that they can contribute to the survey.

	5) Folks just don't care.

	6) You are all perverts and don't want to "out" yourselves :) :)

In any event, for those of you who are shy, if you want to send me anonymous 
mail on the subject you can get info on how to do this by fingering:

	remailer@soda.berkeley.edu 

for those who don't have direct internet access a simple explanation is ...
This document describes some of the special features of the
hh remailer.  Because this remailer is essentially just a
modification of the standard Cypherpunk's Remailer, I recomend that you also
read soda.berkeley.edu:/pub/cypherpunks/remailer/hal's.remailer.gz.

= Where is this remailer running?

The following sites run this remailer package, and will work according to
the instructions below:

	hh@soda.berkeley.edu

I will describe the operations of this remailer using hh@soda.berkeley.edu
as the example, but all of the instructions below apply to all of the
remailers on the above list.  Just replace hh@soda.berkeley.edu with one of
the other account names.  They are listed in order of inception, and
probably also in order of stability.  Increase your security by spreading
your usage among them!

= What does this remailer do?

This remailer allows anyone who can send mail to post to Usenet newsgroups,
and also to send mail to anyone else on the Internet.  Both of these
functions can be anonymous (the identity of the sender is hidden from the
recipient) or non-anonymous (the identity of the sender is known to the
recipient).


= A note about header fields

This remailer/poster looks at the header of the mail you send it to decide
what to do.  Some mail programs don't allow easy editting of the header.  If
your program doesn't allow editting of the header, you can still use the
remailer.  To do this, send mail in the normal way, but start your message
like this:

	::
	Anon-Post-To: rec.fish

leaving no blank lines before the :: and a blank line after the header field
to be inserted.  The remailer will consider the line after the :: to be a
part of the header.  All of the instructions bellow can be used with actual
header fields or the :: format.

= Anonymous mail

This remailer is capable of sending anonymous mail.  To send mail to
foo@bar.com, send a message like this:

	To: hh@soda.berkeley.edu
	Anon-Send-To: foo@bar.com
	Subject: Ronald Sukenick

	I think you should read something by Ronald Sukenick.

and foo@bar.com will recieve the message, without knowing who sent it.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 11:23:55 1994
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Message-Id: <199404081822.LAA23691@soda.berkeley.edu>
From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:22:51 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: RE: Weird thing happened ...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Larry asks:

 Question: Is there a correlation to the who the DJ is and the ease of
  dropping into trance? Who are the best trance-induction DJs?


It is purely a matter of personal taste -- i.e. it all depends on what 
music gets you "off" as it were.  One person's trance-inducing bliss
is another's "oh my god this sucks we have to leave NOW."

I like getting tranced out to ripping hardcore at times.  At 
other times I need spacey sounding stuff , at others hard
acid.  (the music not hte durg).  So a lot of it depends on mood,
too.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 11:46:34 1994
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Subject: Re: raving and Sexual love response
To: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 09:31:58 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404081801.LAA12540@nexsys.nexsys.net> from "Geoff White" at Apr 8, 94 11:01:33 am
From: Sameer <sameer@soda.berkeley.edu>
Pgp-Strong-Print: 3C AE E4 00 C2 6A 81 FF  49 4E EE 0C CD CD 1D 80
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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Content-Length: 1068      
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Geoff White spake:
> modification of the standard Cypherpunk's Remailer, I recomend that you also
> read soda.berkeley.edu:/pub/cypherpunks/remailer/hal's.remailer.gz.
> 

	The document I think Geoff means is: (maybe not.. but
hal's.remailer.gz is obsolete now, given remail-install.tar.gz)

soda.berkeley.edu:/pub/cypherpunks/remailer/hal's.instructions.gz

	If you have lynx and/or Mosaic you can check out
ftp://soda.berkeley.edu/pub/cypherpunks/Home.html

	If you'd like to run a remailer yourself, grab the file:

soda.berkeley.edu:/pub/cypherpunks/remailer/remail-install.tar.gz

	Soon remail-install will install remailer@soda's remailer
software. Right now it installs a slightly modified version of Hal's
original remailer.

- -Sameer

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.3a

iQCVAgUBLaWG+3i7eNFdXppdAQFxvQP+KoQjLsxVpjd13XwEDt89CfYmKTxv4Z9L
kGXFyQAlO/qDW2CBr27cZgtDI5XcLqbr/I79Agm+EtLB3FGp5+vYV/U1HDCY6bcw
5ppfpbPY4cyf7yexHnE8GVpjI9lYeGXxFAWG5aPorye56NtAtaMqGpTRv1uDhkPx
3558+Cj2j7U=
=ampu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 11:58:45 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 14:58:32 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404081858.AA24428@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: A State of Grace
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I probably would have left my first rave if it wasn't for this woman I
saw. She was dancing, and she was beautiful. But not in a sexual way,
for though she was attractive, her dance was everything. It was *all*
she was doing; absolute unity of without and within, perfect
expression, music and mind and body indistinguishable.

Watching her, I was enthralled. I had never seen such absolute purity
of purpose. It reminded me of myself, great chasms in my thought, such
division between heart and intellect and body, and here I was seeing
someone who had not only trancended that, but whose whole was now
merged with an outside thing--the music--to make something even more.
I wanted to experience that, to do this beautiful thing.

And that's why I stayed. I've found since that the trance state is not
only beautiful, but it is healing as well, and that it has profound
depths of what one may experience.

Trance can take one deep into the subconscious realm, or into places
totally new. It can remind us how extremely complex we are, and it can
show us what's in our hearts. It can teach us what it's like to be in
synergy, to have ourselves whole and directed. It can be within or
without. The journeys are as endless as we are.

The "vibe" is a part of this. It's when a lot of people reach the
trance state, but instead of turning inward, turn outward. Without
leaving that mind-music-body synergy, we realize what is happening,
that it is good and that it is shared. The thoughts of good and
sharing feed back to everyone, get turned outward, and feed back
again. The bounds of "me" and "them" dissolve, and for a while, we are
"one". It can be one of the most intense and moving things a person
may ever experience, and it has literally changed people's lives.

I will never forget that woman. Her image remains in my mind, a
doorway and a promise of what can be achieved. A promise that has been
fulfilled more than I ever imagined.

Happy trancing :)

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 12:03:31 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:02:13 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: apocalypse NOW
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Okay, so the name sucks, the location sucks (16th and Harrison),
and the music sucks (hardcore and breakbeat), but Jo, Susie, and
I are going anyway.

Yes, I am being defensive :-)

If anyone else is going to Apocalypse and would like to
meet up with us drop me a line and we'll work something out.

Otherwise, the party is supposed to go from 9.30 pm until 6 am.
The phone line was very emphatic that this is 18 and up, and that
you need to bring ID, so don't forget.

Looking forward to crunching my brain to the spinnage of
DRC, Alex, RAW, and others.  All this for only $5.

*quite excited*

Laura
"bass-bins-R-us"

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 13:07:23 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 13:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter J Schenk <psiborg@halcyon.com>
Subject: Kurt Cobain dead
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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it's a sad day here in seattle.  kurt cobain committed suicide today.
whatever your opinion is of him, we should all feel for his family.
suicide is such an ugly beast.


_-_->psiborg<-_-_

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 13:15:41 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 13:16:42 -0700
From: child@netcom.com (Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild)
Message-Id: <199404082016.NAA11603@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: trancing
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


My fav trance-inducing dj's whose names I have found out are Jeno, Markie,
and John Howard.  

On a related note, I happened to be watching, "rescue 911" at a friend's house
a while back and there was this story about a guy who was hanging out of a 
window of a highrise apartment that was on fire.  Smoke was pouring out from
behind him and it wasn't clear if he would be forced to jump to his death.
Two firepeople with scuba tanks and facial masks and the whole outfit
roped down from the roof into an adjacent window, broke the 
window and entered through it.  It was obvious that they were risking their
lives.  Well they rescued the guy and later they interviewed him.  He was 
basically saying  that he was so surprised that two humans who didn't even 
know him would actually put their own lives at risk to save his.  And he was 
crying and he just couldn't believe their kindness.  And I was crying too.
And it gave me the warm fuzzies all over.

All right so it wasn't related to raving but I just wanted to relate that 
story.  Hey, the warm fuzzies is a great feeling too.  Acts of human kindness
and compassion make my day.

ex-fractal surfer who wanders all over the place (topic-wise)
Space


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 13:33:37 1994
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	id sma017462; Fri Apr  8 13:32:11 1994
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 13:25:41 -0700
From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz)
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To: psiborg@halcyon.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Kurt Cobain dead
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

More like a selfish act!!!



Noah Ruiz
noah@cadence.com  (San Jose)
"True friendship comes when silence
 between two people is comfortable".



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 13:33:47 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 13:39:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kendall Griggs <kgriggs@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Question about 21+ places...
To: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Cc: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404071548.B2925-0100000@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
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On Thu, 7 Apr 1994, Sun Kim wrote:

> Why are some clubs 18+ and others 21+?  If the only difference is that 
> one doesn't serve alcohol and the other does, then why are the clubs 21+ 
> since alcohol is usually looked down upon away?
> 
> (I don't know if I make sense but I hope someone can answer.)

well, I can't really make heads or tails of that whole bs.  Some clubs 
think it's a matter of economics.  They want to only let people in who 
can LEGALLY buy alcohol, and try to keep them drinking.  More drinks, 
more $$.  Other places (like Cactus Club) charge higher cover for their 
shows to those under 21.  There are others that do this; but I think if 
they want to make their quota of drinks per customer, they make us 
underaged folk buy drink tickets.  The only time this whole thing becomes 
a problem is when a band you really like plays at a 21+ place and won't 
let you in just because you are not 21.  That bites.  

enough of my .02...

Ps.  For energy, I too go for bananas and oranges.  But one think I've 
stumbled upon is a milkshake followed by some carbonated mineral water 
(like Calistoga).  The sugar high combined with the carbonation will keep 
you wired; and you don't get the caffiene jitters (when you slam 
coffee).  Do NOT try this before you're going to sleep though... 

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 13:35:47 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 13:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Weird thing happened ...
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199404081536.IAA12291@nexsys.nexsys.net>
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Geoff White said on April 8, 1994:

>up your spine, your eye cross and you enter deep trance, in this state, you
>can dance for litterally hours with out the use or need of chemicals because
>the energy system that you are using is pranic not chemical.

At the first (and only unfortunately) Wicked that I went to, Jeno made me 
dance and dance.  I just could not stop.  It was one of the greatest 
nights I've had.   

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 16:27:35 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Everett Swiger <scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Broun Fellinis
To: sfraves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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The Broun Fellinis will NOT be playing at Chateau tomorrow (Sat.)
afternoon, but we have rescheduled them to play on Saturday, April 23rd,
along with their acid jazz DJ (Charlotte, I believe), Malcolm, myself and
Brad.  Sorry about the short notice. 

Hope to see some of you South Bay folks at VIVID tonight!

Peace + respect,
scottie


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 16:34:24 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:38:04 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: vivid
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

For those of you that are in the santa cruz area or feel like a drive, I'm
playing vivid tonite (2:30-4) and would love to see *your* butt groovin  ;)

take it easy
ethan



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 16:48:21 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404082348.QAA03327@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Spiral Jive,Kurt,Apocalypse
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:48:09 -0700 (PDT)
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I've been told Dante will not be at Spiral Jive
and while it may no longer be outdoors,it will happen
281 8405

Though it was a suicide, probably his addiction to heroin was
the major factor...chippers beware, opium might sound sexy,
but "a soul black bitten, more sorely smitten" as Crowley once
wrote. I'm speaking about the death of Kurt Cobain.

Ameba Care unit will be on hand distributing band-aids and citrus
cause theese kids are gonna get high and fuck shit up...Im nervous

salutations, allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 17:21:05 1994
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Subject: Suicide and hope
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 17:20:00 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9404082025.AA29709@cadence.Cadence.COM> from "Noah Ruiz" at Apr 8, 94 01:25:41 pm
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	OK, so Kurt Cobain is dead.  He's not the only one from the
music scene to back out of life.

	The traditional band 'scene' says, in effect, "We're lonely
and alienated, and we'll always we lonely and alienated, so we'll make
it into a kind of contest where we recognize each other in the only
backhanded way we know for being the most lonely and alienated of
all."

	The way you distinguish yourself in the 'scene' is by having
seen everything already so you can be cool by capping on anything
anyone else says -- and compliment only things that no one else knows
about so you're not in danger of actually being contradicted.

	This is better than doing nothing and vanishing into the sea
of infinite solitude (which most people fear totally), but not by
much.  I have withstood this empty silence -- sometimes it chokes me
so hard I get dry tears -- but withstanding pain doesn't make it go
away.

	And this is why there is hope for the house nation -- because
there exists at least a shadow of recognition that the pain of being
alone isn't something to celebrate and wallow in -- and sometimes, we
reach a bright fine moment when we connect with the world and everyone
else, and nothing needs to be said because a smile or a hug says it
all.

	Keep it alive.

// g


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 17:37:15 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 17:31:54 -0700
From: anthrax@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ann Elizabeth Loraine)
Message-Id: <199404090031.RAA18741@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: new moon
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Hi again!  The dj's at the new moon party will be:

Mark Farina, Graham Hardkiss, Galen, DRC and Charlie Alexander.

The party will go from a little before sunrise to sunset Sunday...for
location, call:

415-267-3076.

seeyou there,

anthrax

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 18:44:24 1994
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From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404090144.SAA10134@well.sf.ca.us>
To: scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  Broun Fellinis
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

but the fellinis will be playing 2nite @ Kennel, sat & mon @ Elbo,
all w/ charlotte (Baroness).  4 those who ain't heard yet, it's like
watching miles or trane b4 their 1st record.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 21:22:33 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Good Housekeeping (in da house!!!)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

                                April 10, 1994
                              Good Housekeeping
                  doin' the do wit acid jazz, soul, funk, dub, &
             phat as phuck trip-hop will be Josh, Charlotte, Jason

                  doin' the special morning cold-trip-stuff are:
                       Swing Kid, Neon Leon, James, & Alfie

                           breakfast served all day!
                                 $3 7am-3pm 21+
                                 1190 Folsom St.
                               info: 415-928-2710

                              it's all about family,
                                  and then some!


Pax

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 23:06:58 1994
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 14:00:25 PDT
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404082100.AA22344@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!halcyon.com!psiborg@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Kurt Cobain dead
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Sad indeed, if it's true, but didn't he have a kid?  Once you bring children
to life, it's not your life to take anymore.  Otherwise, it's a selfish act.
Obviously this doesn't include suicides that precede terminal illness or
other extreme but rare situations.

-Guthrie (new name tag-line, too many Marks around)

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr  8 23:07:13 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu, uunet!sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu!kgriggs@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Question about 21+ places...
Cc: <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>, uunet!sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu!Raves@uunet.UU.NET,
        uunet!sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu!SF@uunet.UU.NET
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Ps.  For energy, I too go for bananas and oranges.  But one think I've
stumbled upon is a milkshake followed by some carbonated mineral water
(like Calistoga).  The sugar high combined with the carbonation will keep
you wired; and you don't get the caffiene jitters (when you slam
coffee).  Do NOT try this before you're going to sleep though...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still say Spirulina Smoothies!!!  It's spirulina (wonderful for energy)
in a base of bananan, coconut, and pineaple juice (gives you everything
in the banana and oranges).  If that doesn't apeal to your tastes, try it
anyway, I usualy don't like pineapple/coconut-type tropical drinks but
this is blended just right with the spirulina and tastes great!

-Guthrie

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 05:13:03 1994
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Subject: Re: Cobain dead
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 5:05:59 PDT
From: "David M. Ilstrup" <dmi@holonet.net>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


I guess it's just really suprising that Kurt Cobain's death is effecting me at
all, but considering that just about the best time out I've had in the last
several months was the New Year's show at the colloseum maybe it makes sense.
Actually I went to the show with the intention of seeing the Butthole Surfers
and was most pumped up for Jazzid Up later that night; Nirvana was an after-
thought. I won't repeat what Cobain said when he opened the show, because it
will probably just sound obscene and senseless :) But that's not really what it
was about. It was about breaking out of traps and freeing basic human spirit,
and it was about trust. If you've been in a mosh pit, you know what I mean 
about trust; you've got alot of agressive energy and so does everyone around 
you.You're frustrated and have no outlet for it, so you just start thrashing 
into everyone. It's not random, because if you aren't careful and the people 
around you aren't careful, you are going to get hurt really fast. At the same 
time, the music is really sending you off. When everyone connects this way, it 
can be wonderfully reassuring. It's sort of a spiritual reality check, where
you confirm the frustration that the people around you are feeling about the 
world,and realizing that you can make yourself very vunerable to complete 
strangers and have them respect your well being. I dunno, that's the way it 
feels to me. It's a real loss that K.C. is gone, but that energy is definitely
manifest in the rave scene and the music scene in general in the Bay Area. 
I don't think anyone has to do anything but what comes naturally to keep it 
alive. It's the un-natural that worries me...

-Dave






From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 09:18:45 1994
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From: Don Littlefield II <unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu>
Message-Id: <199404091618.JAA24796@pathogen.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Subject: How much life is left in the Rave Scene?
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 09:18:39 -0700 (PDT)
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I was just thinking last night about the whole rave scene and I was 
wondering what sort of things will it morph into in the next 2 to 5 
years.  I mean everything has its day right?  I dont think that it will 
die out, but it has to change into something different.  What do any of 
you think the rave scene will be like in 2 to 5 years.  Will it even be 
around in 5?  I sure hope so! :)

BTW - Seeing as I am stuck up here in Chico till May I was wondering if 
anyone could tell me if there are any "Dont Miss" raves going on.  I 
would like to get out of here for a weekend and go party, but only if I 
know it will be worth the cash to drive down and stuff.  Thanks!
 -- 
                            Don Littlefield II
                         unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu
                    Chico State University, California 
                  ..TeChNo..HaRdCoRe..TeChNo..HaRdCoRe..

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 09:42:34 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Good Housekeeping Redux
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Was not sure if this was sent so:

                                April 10, 1994
                              Good Housekeeping
                  doin' the do wit acid jazz, soul, funk, dub, &
             phat as phuck trip-hop will be Josh, Charlotte, Jason

                  doin' the special morning cold-trip-stuff are:
                       Swing Kid, Neon Leon, James, & Alfie

                           breakfast served all day!
                                 $3 7am-3pm 21+
                                 1190 Folsom St.
                               info: 415-928-2710

                              it's all about family,
                                  and then some!


Pax

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 10:34:56 1994
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Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 10:35:51 -0700
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Message-Id: <199404091735.KAA17170@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Rave in park?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Is there a rave in GG park at the polo fields this afternoon?

CC

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 13:31:38 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 13:31:18 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: apocalypse THEN
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Random thoughts:

I don't see why people hate the Haze so much.  Sure, I got
WELL searched by security but it beats the alternative (i.e.
being knifed).  And they let me bringin my own water, soy milk, 
candy, and even ink pens (they were confiscating pens from would-be 
taggers).

The space had that "someone's basement" feel to it, and I really
appreciated the couches all over the place.  Lots of good 
places to sit down.  And I didn't experience any sort of "bad vibe"
or "evil feeling" eminating from the building.

The only thing *wrong* with the Haze is a problem endemic to
San Francisco because of their ridiculous caberet laws.  Since
there are so few places for under-21's to go in ANY scene, kids
from ALL scenes turn up at the Haze regularly because they have
*no* other place to go.  So there are always a good number of people
there who could care less about the music or much else, they just
want and need a place to hang out.

Interestingly enough, the kids at the Haze were decent and even
friendly.  People said "excuse me" and smiled when they
bumped into me, no one pushed or shoved, random people talked
to me, and very few people actually seemed menacing.

Susie, Jo, Chris, and I got there around 12:30 just at the start
of R.A.W.'s breakbeat set.  It was GREAT and fun and DIFFERENT
for a while, but he played for over 2 hours and it got rather boring.
I think an hour and a bit would have been a lot better -- people were
getting annoyed with break break break and started leaving.  R.A.W.
can mix breaks wonderfully, but he just needs to think a bit about
VARIETY in his sets.  There are enough sub-styles of breaks to
avoid monotony in a set, he needs to either spin shorter sets or
vary what he's playing more.

Chris and Susie left just as R.A.W.'s set was ending, but Jo 
convinced me to stay and I'm really glad we did.  Demigod put
down the nicest hardcore + breaks set.  He'd play weird 
breaks for a few tracks, and then segue into a few SLAMMING hardcore
tunes.  It made me feel so happy, like when I used to go to parties
in grimy warehouses in Brooklyn in 1992.  After Demigod came Alex,
and the music stayed hard but got really trancey.  By this
time my body could not really dance anymore so I sat on Allen's
huge bean bag chair and just chatted and bounced around happily.

Upstairs they had some house DJs, I actually  never went up 
there but people said it was good.

For $5 this party is definately  worth checking out.  It just needs
some more "old time" ravers who are there for dancing not just
hanging to liven it up.  I seriously recommend giving this party
a chance.  It's not perfection, but it's interesting, varied,
and good for a night out.  With good support it could be really
nice.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 17:40:57 1994
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From: jvlraves@aol.com
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Message-Id: <9404092038.tn589785@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 94 20:38:30 EDT
Subject: Re: How much life is left in the Rave Scene?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

A topic that inevitably comes up, after exploring 'the scene' for a year more
is "How much is left for the rave scene", or It's not the same anymore", or a
person just gets tired of it.  Personally, I'm not tired of it, it's O.K.,
and I welcome change.
The music ALWAYS goes on in San Francisco.  I friend of mine, who happens to
be an alcohol and substance abuse counselor, is very interested in my
impressions of raves, clubs, et al.  He is 67 years old, goes not indulge in
nightclubs anymore, and is retired.  But his wisdom is worth a thousand
raves.
He listened to my diatribe about the great music, wild light shows, and the
people who love these venues.  He says that he went to parties in wharehouses
and SOMA clubs 20 - 25 years ago that sound very similar.  The music was
different.  The *enhancements* were different.  And there was a lot of sex in
dimly lit rooms.  (Sounds like a chill room, doesn't it?)  The difference may
be, perhaps the gentleless and happy vibe that we enjoy at today's parties. 
But it always goes on here.  HS Advice is not to feel that you missed a great
party, or that you've gotta be at this party tonight.  There will always be
another party.  And if you think you're out of control with the costly
enhancements - stop for 6 months.  If you can do that, then it probably isn't
a problem in your life.
My lover said, "yeah, just stop going out for 6 months, you seem so far away
these days."  That lasted 6 weeks, maybe.
But the perspective really helpee me.  It was a paradigm for that particular
part of my psyche.  It's always there, it's got to change, and it's only old
to you if you're old to it.  If you go for the dancing, and that's what it's
all about, pop music changes.  The clothing styles change.  The designer **
change too.  Have fun.  Make a contribution to the event, however small.  (A
smile to start)  And be careful.
Peace.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 20:28:47 1994
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From: gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Message-Id: <9404100328.AA11270@coreys.maggot>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: looking for canopy for new moon
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


	Hi, this is kind of short notice but i'm wondering if anybody 
out there has a canopy/shade tent we could borrow for the new moon 
party.  i've got a tarp and tripods so we can jury rig it, but thoght 
i'd check and see if anyone has the real thing.

	Please e-mail me or leave a message on the Great Day Times line:
(415)267-3076

					thanx,
					hope to see y'all there,
					gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 20:36:56 1994
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From: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
Message-Id: <199404100337.UAA29714@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: c-ya @ test tonite
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



i'll be there. can't wait....

/

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 21:38:41 1994
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From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Message-Id: <199404100439.VAA28249@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Test Location
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 21:39:34 -0700 (PDT)
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The promoters asked me to post the location for Test (for any of you
late night undecideds:  510 Larkin St. at Turk.  Hope to see you there!
Ethan, Alex and Jonah promise to phuq it up good.
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@netcom.com-----
"We have a problem. Too many of you know who we are."  AMI
Semiconductor ad copy

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 23:48:14 1994
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From: gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Message-Id: <9404100648.AA11333@coreys.maggot>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: New Moon DJ update!!!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


	Just found out that Dante will also be spinning at the 
New Moon party!  Things should get started about 5 AM and go 
till sunset.  Call the Great Day Times line for location:
(415)267-3076.

					see you there,
					gregg


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr  9 23:50:03 1994
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From: chinacat@netcom.com (J. Petersen)
Message-Id: <199404100651.XAA21933@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Seeking housemates in S.F.
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 23:51:02 -0700 (PDT)
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Have you ever wanted to live in a big beautiful house with a
bunch of friends and an internet connection right to your room?
We've found just the place!

We need wired housemates! We want to rent this beautiful,
incredibly spacious three level house in the Golden Gate
Heights. Amazing panoramic view of SF from every window in
the house. Six bedrooms (two per floor) and three bathrooms
(one with whirlpool tub). Two large, open communal living
areas, both with fireplace. Large modern kitchen with dining
area on second floor and wooden-floor dining room with bar
on third floor. Carpet and marble flooring, high ceilings
and large picture windows. Modern-contemporary styling, clean,
and in like-new condition. Sunroom adjacent to first floor
bedroom and large two-deck patio (great for lots of potted
plants). Balcony off third floor. All with uninterrupted view
of the SF skyline! Safe, quiet neighborhood, one garage and
plenty of parking on the street. Lots of storage space.

The cost for all this should be about $500 per bedroom, plus
utilities.

It's located at 1580 15th street, cross street Lawton--four
blocks from Golden Gate Park, a long walk or short bike ride
to Haight Ashbury, and 2 blocks to a major MUNI route (N),
which takes you downtown or to the BART. Close to Lincoln
Way (out to 101) and Highway 1 (down to 280 or up to the
Golden Gate Bridge).

And...we want to hardwire the whole house to the Internet.
Are you tired of second-hand net access, shell accounts,
and disk quotas? We're ready to make the leap to a full
Internet connection. A totally wired household, running
a 56KB leased line net connection (?), a gopher/www public
server, whatever else turns you on. 


Here's what we're picturing:
* Incredibly intense house
* Run a LAN in the house, with terminals throughout.
* Connect via leased line (ISDN?) to the net, very likely
  through The Little Garden or Internex.
* Link up with other Bay Area Internet cooperatives such
  as Cyborganic and Nexus-Berkeley.
* Offer Internet introductions and SLIP connectivity to the
  community.
* Live cooperatively, at least to an extent. It would be nice
  if people were interested in doing group meals a couple
  times a week, throwing a party here and there, etc.

A little information about us:
Julie is 26, Jim is 25.
Jim works at home, Julie works at Wired Magazine.
This would NOT be a no alcohol, no drugs household. If you're
  not comfortable with someone smoking a joint, it probably
  wouldn't work out. 
We are more into music than television. There will be Grateful
  Dead music played in this house. If you can't stand this, it
  probably wouldn't work out. On the other hand, we are also
  into a wide variety of music from The Orb to Nirvana to John
  Zorn to Robert Johnson (and an occasional Gregorian chant).
We're into live music, raves and much more that SF has to offer
  but we also like to relax at home sometimes.

The house is available May 1, but we'll need to make a decision
immediately. If this sounds good to you, call us at 510-889-0362
(or call julie@work at 415-904-6458) or email us at
chinacat@netcom.com/julie@wired.com.

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jim Petersen                              Argue for your limitations...
chinacat@netcom.com                            And they are yours


From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 10 02:11:31 1994
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Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 02:10:56 -0800
To: Don Littlefield II <unibrow@ecst.csuchico.edu>,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
Subject: Re: How much life is left in the Rave Scene?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  9:18 AM 4/9/94 -0700, Don Littlefield II wrote:
>What do any of
>you think the rave scene will be like in 2 to 5 years.  Will it even be
>around in 5?  I sure hope so! :)

Rather than thinking about what the rave scene will be like in 2-5 years
from now, try to redirect your thoughts and figure what you will be like in
2-5 years.  That's really the main factor in all this.

- Steve



From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 10 02:55:43 1994
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Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 02:58:08 -0700
From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea of Sin)
Message-Id: <9404100958.AA11859@noc.usfca.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: test
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


this is not a test of the mailing system. this is a report on test, the event.
I thought the event was great. There was great music thanks to Ethan and 
Alex, who spun great sets. It was cool to see some familiar faces(Mommy, Daddy,
Big Sister, Ravi, and Steve). I thought the space was great, it has a lot of
potiential, though it was in the Tenderloin. Hopefully more events will take
place there. The event was $3 and I actually had money to go to this one:). 
The first level was the dance floor, pool tables, bars, and they even had 
pinball machines:). What was really great was that the DJs were spinning
out of an Utiltity/Janitorial closet. Downstairs was the basement where the
ambient room was. The second ambient DJ had the levels up too loud:(. T he
first DJ was great though. Who was she? I would like to know her name because
I am compiling a list of women DJs. She played a mixture of things from 
a -8 version of the Cocteau Twins toMiddle Eastern Music,to  Electronic Ambient
music. I thought she was wonderful. 

Anyway too bad the party had to stop at 2. (I didnt stick around if it was
moved downstairs or somewhere else). 

seaofsin 




From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 10 11:36:26 1994
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Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 11:36:08 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404101836.LAA16217@well.sf.ca.us>
To: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  test
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

just to let you know, the site of Test is the home of the house alternative
Monday Nite Pepper.  Toph has great djs, often guys from the world of remix
who do not play out as much.  (You all missed sometink last week not hearing
rassoul, who even played some of his own shit.)  I have no clue who's
playing this monday, but the calendar says Buck & Digit, who in fact were
only there the first nite.  Thomas & Chris Lum traded sets a few weeks ago.
for a bar in the Tenderloin, its subdued "elegance" is surprising.

but the music is dope.

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 10 11:50:10 1994
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Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 11:49:56 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404101849.LAA22055@well.sf.ca.us>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: bleeeeehh
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


while most o you enjoy the beach/sun new moon, i'm stuck here fronto cathode
rays finishing a script.  i'm not jealous.  i'm not jYalous.  i'm not
jealous.  i'm not jealous.  what's there to be jealous about?


i'm not jealous.

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 10 21:34:19 1994
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Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 21:35:21 -0700
From: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
Message-Id: <199404110435.VAA06467@netcom9.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: aphex used DAT?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	Here it is- my observations from the APHEX TWIN show
	in SF on the NASA tour.

	
	1)	Richard James wasn't moving very much
		during his set. The amount of sounds
		he was producing would require lots of
		control over the equipment. He seemed hovered
		over only a Studio 440 SMPTE reader/sequencer.

	2)	His studio material soudned exactly like the
		live stuff with a few extra sounds added.

	3)	I bought Selected Ambient Work II and two of the
		trax on it were IDENTICAL to his live ones- note for
		note, beat for beat.

	4)	Finally I asked someone who had been working at the show
		and they said "yeah- i was working on stage when he started.
		He put a DAT in a player and off it went."

	Here are my conclusions:

	1)	He used a time-code DAT- a DAT tape with a stripe of
		SMPTE time code on it.

		His Studio 440 read the SMPTE time code and triggered
		some additional sounds adding a little to the set.

	2)	I'm not really upset about not seeing a live performance.
		I know that when my electronic music band performs it
		takes 3 people who have been rehearsing for YEARS
		to make a cohesive set on all electronic analog
		equipment.

	3)	The only reason I analyze his set like this is becase I
		am a eternal student of electronic music. I was really
		blown away by the idea that one person can control
		that many sounds from so few gear without moving around
		to control it at all.

		At least it doesn't seem that I'm crazy- in order to make
		that much sound you'd need about 3 people with lots of
		percussion and synth modules all clocked together to 
		generate a set like that.

		Its a shame that he had to resort to DAT show.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 01:37:28 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 01:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: test
To: Sea of Sin <kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404100958.AA11859@noc.usfca.edu>
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I'm pissed.

Myself, along with 3 friends, were planning on going out to TEST this 
saturday night.  Alex had told me about the idea a couple of months ago, 
and I have been anxiously awaiting its materialization.  We were all 
ready to go around 11, just needing to call the info line to get the 
location.

"The party will be strictly 21 and over, so bring a valid ID" 

Now, I'm not really upset that it was 21 and over (well, actually I am), 
but the real reason I am upset is that this information was not given 
until LATE saturday night, even on the flier.  What is the reason for 
this?  I can see NO excuse.  People under 21 are making 
plans to go to this party, and at the last minute, they are told they can't 
get in.  What is 
the point?  Was it not known that the party would be 21+ until saturday?  
I doubt it.  Can someone involved in this party please explain (Ethan? 
Bryce?)???

Dissapointed again,
//////////{{{{{{{{{{{((((((((((([[[[[[232]]]]]])))))))))))}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\
Seth

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 01:38:00 1994
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From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Message-Id: <199404110839.BAA20786@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Medical FTP Sites?
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 01:39:02 -0700 (PDT)
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Does anyone know of any ftp or gopher sites that have medical
information? I am particularly looking for information about AIDS for
use in an article I am writing.

Thanks!

OBRave: Has anyone heard whether YSH is going weekly or monthly yet?



And how are those sexualove things coming along? :)


Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
...............................................................................

trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 01:41:22 1994
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From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Message-Id: <199404110842.BAA20948@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Medical FTP Sites?
To: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 01:42:21 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404110839.BAA20786@mail.netcom.com> from "Tamara Palmer" at Apr 11, 94 01:39:02 am
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> 
> Does anyone know of any ftp or gopher sites that have medical
> information? I am particularly looking for information about AIDS for
> use in an article I am writing.


Never mind, I answered my own question. :)


Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
...............................................................................

trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 05:27:09 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 05:26:50 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
Subject: Drive-by shooting in front of Sound Factory?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I just heard some disappointing news, but wanted some confirmation.  Is it
true a female was fatally shot in a drive-by attack whilst waiting in front
of Sound Factory Saturday night?

Will this insanity ever stop????



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 05:36:04 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 05:35:45 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
Subject: Re: Documentary about our community
Cc: robcamp@seas.gwu.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At 10:32 AM 4/6/94 -0700, Bob Ramstad wrote:
>of course there are many others too:
>
>tapers
>sound people
>"collectives" / "posses"
>"rave store" owners

I'm a tab bit late responding, but how 'bout the homeless folx who follow
you and almost sit in your car to come home with you if you don't give them
their spare change, and then some?
>
>not sure if these groups exist as much outside of SF, but they
>definitely exist here in ways which contribute to the scene.
>
>Bob



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 09:57:43 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 10:00:31 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: test
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  1:35 AM 4/11/94 -0700, Seth Joshua Horvitz wrote:

>I'm pissed.
...

>Now, I'm not really upset that it was 21 and over (well, actually I am), 
>but the real reason I am upset is that this information was not given 
>until LATE saturday night, even on the flier.  What is the reason for 
>this?  I can see NO excuse.  People under 21 are making 
>plans to go to ths party, and at the last minute, they are told they can't 
>get in.  What is 
>the point?  Was it not known that the party would be 21+ until saturday?  
>I doubt it.  Can someone involved in this party please explain (Ethan? 
>Bryce?)???

Please exclude bryce from any grief you may have about the above situation.
He posted directions at my request and in fact, neither he nor I promoted
this party. I always regret when a party is 21+.

Not to duck the issue however, please note the following:

Directions were posted by 8:30 pm.

Up until wednesday it was beleived that the party would be <21-friendly.
This however was contingent on the space in question receiving permits that
were in the application processing stage. That person felt very confident
about reciving the permit--cabaret, which in this case decided use of the
space in general as opposed to simply the 18+/21+ issue. However she, like
many others recently, was denied. Many permits are now being *revoked* in
what seems a decided backlash against the recent 18+ ruling.

We (I certainly count myself in this group!) have very high expectations of
our promoters. We expect them to find nice places that can accomodate
hundreds of people at high volumes all night and at a low cost for all
ages.
Spaces like this are hard to find and cost money. Show me a promoter (and
this goes for the _big ones_ I know too) and I'll show you someone who
loses money 1 out of every 2 (if not 4 out of every 5!) parties. These
people *are not* getting rich; rather they're providing the _substance_ of
the famed "keep it alive." 

A lot of the promoters I know (myself included) don't have the money or the
inclination to book the galleria or the concourse, which as we all know,
are: all ages, all night, high volume, high cost. In the case of _test_ the
promoters didn't have *any money.* It was either: throw the party as best
you could under the circumstances or, cancel the party. Net effect to you:
exactly the same. In any event, the party happened, lots of people had a
good time. I'm sorry you weren't there.

I should however add that, in truth, I was fairly pissed about the location
confusion as well cos really up until the last minute this party was
basically cancelled. 

Anyway, to sum it all up let me say this: We should hold our promoters to
very high standards but we should also forgive them their occasional
'failings.' 

And, most importantly, if you can do a better job, please do so, the scene
needs it.

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 10:03:08 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 13:02:52 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404111702.AA04658@pilot.njin.net>
To: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Cc: Sea of Sin <kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: test
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404110154.B18458-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
References: <9404100958.AA11859@noc.usfca.edu>
	<Pine.3.89.9404110154.B18458-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Seth Joshua Horvitz writes:
 > Was it not known that the party would be 21+ until saturday?  I
 > doubt it.  Can someone involved in this party please explain
 > (Ethan?  Bryce?)???

They may not have had a site or had to change sites on a couple days
notice. Other than that, there's no excuse for not making it crystal
clear that it's a 21+ party as soon as possible.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 11:08:49 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 11:06:45 -0700
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404111806.LAA20770@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Question about 21+ places...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

> 
> 
> 	Unfortunately, those with the power to change this (the club
> owners, who fought IN FAVOR of keeping the curfew laws in effect)
> don't care, and those who have the power to influence those with the
> power (I.e. YOU - the party-goers, the party-throwers, etc) mostly
> don't think it matters much, either.  So the schism persists.  Even
> though I've crossed the age barrier recently, I'm not going to give
> any strictly 21+ place my business, unless they have been trying to
> get an 18+ license or allow them in after a certain time.  Period.
> I used to say things like the above, and still sneak into 21+ parties,
> until someone called me on it amd I realized I was being a hypocrite
> by going to 21+ parties.  It's not a problem, really - there are still 
> lots of 18+ parties around anyways.  
> 
> 	Sorry to vent my spleen.... 
> 
> 	Brian

I understand your position but now that you are 21 AND a resident of SF
(which means you vote for whoever is on the Board of Supervisors you might
consider a more pro-active stance.  Ultimately the real culprets in this
issue are the SFPD.  They have decided to take the law into their own 
hands and enforce the 18 curfew ANYWAY.  So you might want to fax or phone 
the police commissioner or as I have suggested before set up voter registration
tables outside <21 parties.  If the tactics that the police are using succeed
it will only be a matter of time before ALL parties are shut down unless you
pay them off (which is what this is _really_ all about any ways)

I hear that there is going to be a series of renegade/break-ins planned for the
spring/summer months which, as far as I'm concerned, is all for the better.

If people try to obey the lawful process and the police still insist on
having it their way (In amerikkka the man with the money and guns make the
rules) then it is our duty to push back against this.  The police have 
absolutely no right to instill any form of social engineering.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 11:28:09 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 14:27:53 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404111827.AA09116@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: And speaking of 21+ parties...bad time at Wicked
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I had a perfectly bad time at Wicked. You should, of course, take this
with a grain of salt, since all experiences are subjective. And this
is not a comment on the promoter, but on the party in general.

After I spent 15 minutes finding some legal parking that wasn't on a
totally dark street, I walked over to the King St. garage, a space I
went to once before and didn't like (and which other people have
complained about). It's too small and has poor ventilation. Very very
hot and smokey. You know, I read the other day that smoking has
dropped considerably in California, though you wouldn't know it from
the rave scene. If you're smoking in a closed space where people are
exercising, then basically you just don't give a fuck about anyone
else's health and what you're doing to them. Let's call a duck a duck,
eh?

So anyway, it was $15, which was too much for a party in a small space
like that with no visuals other than a few intellabeams. Acoustics
weren't very good either, with the bass overwhelming everything. Poor
Jeno was tweaking the knobs all night trying to get a good sound out
of that space. I didn't connect the directions with that particular
space, or I probably wouldn't have went. The Goons weren't being
gooney like the other time I went there (Which Crunch wrote all
about), so that was very cool.

I hooked up with a couple of friends of mine I was supposed to meet,
who had come with other friends, and after about a minute they danced
off and never acknowledged me again. Well, foo.

And for that matter, something really bothers me about the Wicked
crowd. I just don't feel like I belong. There *was* a big vibe going,
but it was a strange one; not much smile factor.

And people kept bumping into me. I'd find a nice spot and dance
without moving around a lot, and I'd get an elbow in the back, or
someone would accidentally swipe my head. No big deal, but they were
oblivious to it. A couple of people bumped me several times without
even acknowledgeing me. I'd move off to a less crowded spot and the
experience was repeated.

Friends and Family was even more crowded than this event, had just a
big a vibe, and a lot of people were clearly out of their heads, but
they were _nice_. If someone whopped you one, they apologised, or
turned and smiled. No such courtesy at Wicked.

So anyway, Markie was laying down one of his fat house grooves, so I
headed up cause I wanted to watch his technique. I found a clear spot
near the turntables, and watched (with a big fat grin on my face cause
he's so good) and bobbed a bit. After about 10 minutes, some woman
shoves by me very rudely, and dances next to me. She edges over and
bumps me. I look at her. She says something, but I can't hear it.
I figure she's apologising (wow), so I turn my attention back to
Markie. I get bumped again. And again. I turn and she's looking at me.
I lean over so she can yell in my ear, and she tells me that if I'm
not going to dance, go over there.

What?

I just shake my head and again turn back to Markie. She yells at me
again. Says this is her spot. I tell her to be nice, I want to watch
Markie. She repeats this a couple of times and I end up telling her
quite forcefully to FUCK OFF!

At which point I was having strong thoughts of FUCK THIS. Is this the
usual Wicked crowd or did I pick a bad night, or does one need to go
to Wicked 30 or 40 times before people are nice to you?

Well anyway except for that asshole, I really enjoyed watching Markie
do his stuff. I never realized before just how much he works at it,
and how much he samples. Cool beans.  I hung around for Jeno's set,
which I had high hopes for, but I left an hour into 122 BPM wailing
diva house, which the crowd really liked but which I wasn't in the
mood for.

In general, I got the impression that Wicked is a fraternity, that a
lot of the people there know each other, and I wasn't one of them. I
didn't meet any friendly people. And it wasn't just me, cause I was
emanating a lot of smile factor all night, trying to draw people out.
But it just didn't happen.

So I don't think I'll be going to Wicked anymore, unless it's with a
small crowd of my own, then I can get some good vibes. Don't know if
that will be possible, cause I don't age discriminate and Wicked is
usually in 21+ spaces.

After that I was just too bummed out to drive the two hours to the new
mooner. I hope it went well!

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 12:21:12 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 12:20:11 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Testing TESTing 1-2-3
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

WOOSH!!!  Technophiles and electronic music junkies UNITE!  Now
THIS is a good idea.

The only bad thing about TEST was that they lost their space but got
saved by Cleo (of Cleo's in the Haight).  It seems that Cleo let the
TEST people have their party in a bar she owns in the Tenderloin.  So
it was a bar, and therefore HAD to be 21+, but it was better than there
being  no party at all.  Cleo should get some kind of award for what
she's done for the scene, from having gear in the Cafe to supporting 
Your Sister's House to letting TEST use the Art Deco.

ANYWAY, Cindy and I got there around 11 pm, just as things were getting 
started.  We chilled in the chill basement while a woman (who IS she?)
did weird things in the name of ambient.  If you slow Liz Frazer's voice
down enough she sounds like Brendan Perry.  Humm.  And they worked 
together on some This Mortal Coil stuff.  Humm.  Have you ever seen
Liz Frazer and Brendan Perrty together in the same place at the same
time?  *Maybe* they are the same person?  HUMMMM :-)

We went upstairs to hear Ethan (our techno daddy) put down thick 
layers of acid techno trance.  The dance floor filled up and Ethan
worked the energy levels up to that amazing "we're all in outer space"
level.  Even more remarkable because he was doing it in a BAR for
god's sake where random people would wander in beer in hand to hit
on tranced out dancers.  I can not WAIT to hear Ethan do it in a dark
warehouse at 4 am with one strobe and a single sweeping blue beam,
shades of Brooklyn, where you can feel the entire consciousness of
the room lift off and orbit out near Venus.  I mean, if Ethan can get
it together in a bar in the Tenderloin, you DON'T want to miss it in
more favorable surroundings like, oh, Bonny Doon or something.  I LOVED
IT ETHAN!  HEARING THAT TRANCE (oh so well mixed) MADE ME SOOO HAPPY.

Okay (calm down, dill weed, heh heh heh).

I danced myself into a sweat, and then shared a refreshing hard apple
cider with Cindy.  You know, like any other substance, alcohol when
used properly works just *fine* at a party.  By this time the Art Deco
was totally taken over by ravers and electronic music fans, and had a
great feel.  

Next came Alex, who took Ethan's power boost and just kept running 
with it.  Alex got the joy of spinning to a full floor, something that
was unhappily denied him on Friday night at the Haze.

At 2am Test closed up -- it would have been rude and disrespectful of
Cleo's hospitality to continue into the realm of illegality.  After all,
she *is* a businesswoman too.  Cindy and I left, but I think the party
might have moved deep into the basement (or bassment).

I hope things work out better for TEST space-wise next time.  It is a
brilliant party (made me want to take back all the positive things I said
about Apocalypse, I guess I was just so starved for a harder party that
it seemed like water to a person in a desert).  If any test organizers
are reading this *please* keep doig this, and *please* keep trying to 
find spaces that will allow you to do this as all ages.  Spring is
coming, maybe a TEST outdoor renegade?

All warm and fuzzy, purely from the spaced-out beats,

Love and community,

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 12:29:41 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 12:28:01 PDT
From: PLUI@IOSSVR.gm.hac.com
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Received: by DniMail (v1.0); Mon Apr 11 12:27:48 1994 PDT
To: hac2gm::arpa::"sfraves@techno.stanford.edu"@hac2arpa.hac.com
Subject: help w. blown speaker repairs
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

hullo, 

I burnt the voicecoil of a Fostex 18" speaker, the local repairhouse wants $400
to fix it :(  

Can anyone help me find a source for replacement parts?


thanks, pat (bass-deprived)

plui@iossvr.gm.hac.com

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 12:50:22 1994
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Date: 11 Apr 1994 12:49:48 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: Look People
To: socal-raves@ucsd.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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saw this band, Look People, with Dread Zeppelin in Ventura on Saturday.

if you get a chance, you've gotta check out Look People; they're from
  canada, and even have their own comic book :)
  they
're  'thrash jazz', and their act is a bunch of hard-driving thrash segments
  punctuated with carnival acts and childish pranks.

their drummer is a dwarf, their guitar player is 7 ft tall, and the lead
   singer has gotta have some of Frank Zappa's AND Peewee herman's blood
     in there somewhere; they may look funny, but they're tight as shit;
       absolutely perfect timing riff-wize...

they say they'll have e-mail soon; i'll post the addr if i get it

Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 14:27:28 1994
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Date: 11 Apr 1994 14:20:20 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: transcription of the madonna interview on letterman
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From:	SMTP%"jsquires@CERF.NET"  8-APR-1994 20:37:34.79
To:	SCRUTON@joyce.edsg.hac.com
CC:	
Subj:	The dave and madana show

Date: 08 Apr 1994 20:37:08 -0700
From: "James A. Squires" <jsquires@CERF.NET>
Subject: The dave and madana show
To: SCRUTON@joyce.edsg.hac.com
Message-id: <199404090337.UAA07319@nic.cerf.net>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


This is off of the newsgroup alt.fan.letterman. You know what
Madonna's like, if you don't want to read naughty words, hit "n"
now.

dykstra (dykstra@falcon.cc.ukans.edu) wrote:
: **********
: This is Greg Greenberg's posting, with a few lines fixed and
: spelling corrected by the VAX vms Spelling Checker.

: Thanks to GG for original post.  SGM
: **********

: I have graciously transcribed the Thursday Night Letterman for all of
: you to enjoy.  Why?  I don't know!  Why was Madonna such a bitch?  Please read
: it and enjoy it because it took way to long not to be read.  The conversation
: is almost verbatim, of course not all [applause] is noted, only the major
: ones. The bleeped out cuss words have been inserted, so those who don't
: approve, don't read on, they are in parenthesis.

: D is for Dave
: M is for Madonna
: P is for Paul

: Spelling is not accurate, but who cares, I've had enough of this for
: now.


: D	Our first guest tonight is one of the biggest stars in the world, in
: 	the past ten years she has sold over 80 million albums starred in
: 	countless films and slept with some of the biggest names in the 
: 	Entertainment industry.

: P	She's your guest!
: D	It's right there on her bio for heavens sake.  
: P	She's your guest.
: D	It's what it says
: P	She's your guest.
: D	Oh, she's, oh, everything's fine just relax will ya
: D	We're just trying to have fun
: P	Ok, I know
: D	Ok, Ladies and Gentleman, here she is Madonna

: --Music- Holiday? by Madonna

: [Madonna comes out and hands Dave her panties]

: D	How are you doing?
: M 	I'm only here cause there isn't a Knicks game, don't get excited.
: D	Oh,come on.
: D	Lets go kiss a guy in the audience, why don't you go kiss a guy in
: 	the audience
: M	Why are you so obsessed with my sex life?
: D	As we all know, I have none of my own
: M	Well, um
: D	Go kiss the guy in the audience, it would knock him out
: D	Look at that guy, just, like on the forehead, just on the forehead
: M	I can't

: [both laughing]

: M	He's not tall enough
: D	I like that, she said "I can't", lot of people would cave into the
: 	pressure and say oh alright, they'd go out and kiss him and 
: 	get it over with.
: M	yeah well I've never succumbed to peer pressure
: D	Well good for you, that's what we love about you madonna
: M	yes
: D	What brings you. . . .
: M	Incidentally, you are a sick (fuck)
: M	I don't know why I get so much (shit)
: D 	You realize this {Madonna: "you're twisted"}is being broadcast,
: 	don't you?
: M	yeah

: [both laughing]

: D	Well you canomi (can't ) be talking like that.
: M	What?
: D	I say, oh never mind
: D	What brings you to. . . 
: M	Wait a minute, Aren't you going to smell them?  (referring to the
: 	panties)
: D	[Sighs twice]
: M	i gave them to you for a reason
: D	Let's see what I'm doing at my house right now ladies and gentleman
: M	no,no,no,no,no
: D	I'll take care of that later, it's a lovely. . .
: M	I gave him, my, come on, I gave him my underpants and he wont smell.
: . .
: M	[laughing]
: M	That's not where they go.  [dave putting them in his desk drawer]
: D	No, that's, no believe me, that's where the underwear go, that's. . 
: D	That's where, see look here's where I keep my socks, here's where I
: 	keep my panties
: M	[laughing]
: D	that's where they go
: M	No, that's where, that's where you keep my panties
: D	Ok
: D	So what are you doing in new york city?  Let me ask you a question,
: 	are you buying an NBA team, you buying the Bulls, you buying
: 	the Miami Heat, you buying a whya whya.. . .
: M	No
: D	How come?
: M	uhhmm
: D	Is that just a rumor? Is that an un. . 
: M	Yes
: D	Untrue rumor?
: D	But you like basketball
: M	Isn't that an oxymoron?  An untrue rumor.
: D	No . . .Not necessarily
: M 	Isn't that sort of like jumbo shrimp?
: D	Some rumors are true.
: D	Yeah jumbo shrimp, yes, oxymoron, I mean
: M 	Untrue rumor
: D	No,no some rumors are true
: M	Untrue rumor, I mean that's like funny David Letterman
: D	Oh, man
: [boos]
: D	Sir, [to the man who would have been kissed by Madonna] you're the
: 	luckiest man in the house!
: D	So you like basketball a great deal, where's your interest in
: 	basketball.
: M	[looking up at microphone] That microphone is really long.
: M	Speaking of the NBA
: M	I'm sorry [giggling]
: M	I always go there, and really I don't care, I mean 
: D	So now lets talk about your interest in the NBA, you go to a lot of
: 	games, you were, you were friends with Charles Barkely
: M	I wouldn't go that far
: D	You weren't friends with Charles Barkley?
: M	I don't think he understands the meaning of friendship.
: D	Oh, really he seems like he might be a hothead, that guy.
: M	Hmmm, Hmhm
: D	Did you know him at all
: M	Hmmm,Hmm
: D	yeah
: M	Yeah
: D	Did it hurt when you had that thing put in your nose?  [referring to
: 	her nose ring]
: M	I thought you were going to ask me if it hurt something else, but , I
: 	thought you were going to continue the Charles Barkely line of
: 	questioning
: D	Ohhhh, man, this is. . 
: M	(fuck)
: D	What a revelation
: M	And the question, and the answer is , um. . . 
: D	What a lovely young woman
: M	hmm, yes
: D	But, you have like, a nose ring there.
: M	It hurt, the answer is yes, both questions
: D	What happens when you take that out, will you ever take that out
: M	What happens whey you take it out?
: D	Yeah
: M	Both questions?
: D	Oh, come on, come on, what a, what a ,what am I speakin' Chinese
: 	here, now stop it.
: M	Listen, all you do is talk about my sex life on your show, so now you
: 	don't want to talk about my sex life when I'm on your show.
: D	Now what do you mean, do you mean because we refer to you
: 	periodically, we make jokes. . .
: M	Periodically?
: D	yeah
: M	You can't get through a show without talking about me or thinking
: 	about me.
: D	[laughing]
: D	No, but do you mind that, is that a problem for you?
: M	It's never a problem
: D	yeah
: D	Alright, I'll tell you what, let's do, let's do a commercial, do you
: 	want to do a commercial?
: M	No
: D	Ok, we'll do a commercial. . .
: M	I don't think we should ever cut to a commercial, 
: D	No , we'll. . . 
: M	Let's keep talking and film every second of it
: D	Oh yeah, because if the rest of it is as fascinating as the first 
: 	part of it. . .then we've , we've got something there, there,
: 	that's money in the bank, there [making hand gestures that signify
: 	money]
: M	Before, wait, wait, wait, before we cut to a commercial, I just want
: 	to know. . .um is that a rug?
: D	You talkin' about my hair?   well, alright what is that a swimcap? 
: 	What are you wearing

: [applause]

: D	Come on, Let's go [gets up and puts his dukes up] here we go, 

: [applause]

: D	come on

: [madonna gets up and takes his challenge]

: D	No, no,no, I got a bad neck, I can't, i can't just sit down
: D	Just sit down, Sit down, just have a seat
: M	Don't make me act a fool, Dave, alright
: [both laughing]
: D	Have a seat
: M	don't make me , do you want to touch my dress?
: D	I would, I would I would like to touch your dress, [touches dress]oh,
: 	very nice, very nice [sighs]
: [both sit down]
: D	I tell you what , we are going to do a commercial, and uh, we are
: 	going to wash her mouth out with soap. . .
: M	And he's going to smell my underwear
: D	and then we'll be right back
: M	and um. . .
: D	. . . kids, come on back

: Commercial Break

: D 	How do you do ladies and Gentleman, welcome back, Madonna is here, 
: 	Madonna and I are just sitting around smoking cigars and swapping
: 	recipes.
: M	[with cigar in mouth] yeah
: D	Also uh Counting Crows and the uh world champion grocery bagger, Did
: 	you have jobs like that when you were a kid?  Did you work in grocery 
: 	stores, bagging groceries, any of that?
: M	No
: D	Have you ever been in a grocery store?
: M	you really have , you really. . . 
: [both giggling]
: M	yeah [ to grocery store question]
: D	yeah?, good
: D	uh, and uh. . .
: M	You know you really changed since the last time I was on the show.
: D	Well we haven't seen you in like 6 years or 7 years
: M	You used to be really kind of , like, cool.
: D	I know, there is no bigger dweeb than me.
: M 	Money's made you soft
: D 	really, you think so?
: M	yeah
: D	in what sense?
: M 	Because you just kiss up to everybody on your show now
: [oohs from crowd]
: M	You do man, you're always kissing up to like all, I see all these,
: 	like you know movie stars coming here and you just  all  ga-ga,
: 	you should just give people a hard time.
: D	Yeah, I can suspend that behavior tonight if you'd like.
: [applause and laughter]
: M	[laughing] I believe you have already
: D	oh,  I know, now we're just kidding around, now explain to folks,
: 	we're just kidding around.
: M	Don't treat me special, Ok?
: D	Alright, sure
: M	I wouldn't want you to do that.
: D	Now what specifically are you getting at, what is driving you nuts 
: 	here? What's troubling ya?
: M 	About you or life in general?
: D  	We'll let's start with life in general
: M	No let's just get back to you.
: D	Ok,fine
: M	um
: D	First of all, you're not irritated at all, you're not irritated at
: 	all, I know this is a little act
: M	You are not irritating me.
: D	Ok, good
: M	Are you trying to?
: D	No, I'm not trying to irritate you
: M	Actually you do irritate me sometimes
: D	hmm, hmm
: D 	Well you kind of irritate me to.
: M	Really?
: D	You see we have so much in common
: M	I know
: M	Why are you always . . .Actually I brought something, to like make a	
: 	point.
:  . .
: D	Right, ok, good
: M	because you are always (fucking) with me on the show
: D 	God
: M	You are always (fucking) with me on the show
: D	This, you kn. . . 
: M	You are always (fucking) with me on the show

: [an older couple is shown gasping at madonna's comments]

: M	Where is that thing? [the camera]
: D	See what you're doing
: D	You see, you see what you're doing?

: [applause]

: D 	Now there, you see
: M	What? 
: D	A, a nice couple, Where are you folks from?, yeah Appleton
: 	Wisconsin, look they drove all the way, they came in an Avis car
: 	and they wanted . .
: .
: M 	Will you shut up please, can we. . .let's get to the tape, I brought
: 	a tape to prove that he's obsessed with my, obsessed with me
: D	alright, you think we refer to you much to much on the show.
: M	yeah
: D	alright, roll the tape Hal, let's see what she's talking about here
: ---tape--
: D	As luck would have it, I look up and there's madonna...
: P	There she was
: D	...riding her bicycle.  Hal roll my home video tape of Madonna. 
: 	Watch this, this is very impressive ladies and gentleman, look there
: 	she is

: [applause]

: D	ok, stop it, 

: [the tape is film of a naked woman riding her bicycle away from the
: camera, with a black spot over her butt]
: [tape over]
: D	alright
: M	What's that all about?
: D	Now can you do that? Don't you have a problem with chaffing when
: 	you're out there like that?
: M 	My ass looks a lot better than that.
: D 	[laughing] Are you enjoying that smoke there?
: M	It's just the right size.
: D	What are you, uh now when you leave here tonight, what are you gonna
: 	do, are you gonna go out are you going to...
: M	Don't (fuck) with me Dave
: D	Oh, jeez
: D	please
: M	Aren't there any other segments? That's it?
: D	Do we have more tape for Madonna?
: D	Sounds to me. . 
: M	I like the way you say my name, by the way
: D	It sounds to me like somebody might be hmm,hmm  with you. . .
: M	somebody fucked up
: D	[laughing] oh, god
: M	It's ok
: D	I want to thank you folks for coming out for this run through show, 
: 	thank you very much, this of course will never see the light of day,
: 	you won't miss a thing tonight, ummm, you have, you have a top ten
: 	list, I'm told
: [acting like end of a show]
: M	Yah I'm sitting on it.
: D	You're sitting on it, oh are we going to do the list?
: Morty	Yes
: D	I heard Morty over there weaseling, first he said "no, no, no,no"
: 	and then I said, and then I said "are we going to do the list"
: 	and he said "sure."
: M	There seems to be a lot of confusion right now
: D	Yeah guess why
: [audience Dave and Madonna laughing]
: M	Is it cause I've been saying (fuck)?
: D	You just, you can't. . . 
: M	Speak the truth or train(chain?) the devil baby
: D	No, you can't be comin' on here, this is American Television, you
: 	can't be talkin' like that, now we're going to have to. . .
: M	Why?
: D	Because people don't want that in their own homes at 11:30 at night.
: M	They don't?
: [applause]
: M	Wait a minute, wait a minute
: D	Yeah, Yes sir!

: [Dave stands up and salutes the older couple]

: M	Stop!
: [organ music and clapping]
: M	Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute
: M 	People don't want to hear the word (fuck) in their. . . 
: D	Oh, stop it, will you stop. . . Ladies and Gentleman turn down your
: 	volume, turn the volume down immediately, she can't be stopped 
: [applause]
: D	There's something wrong with her. . .
: M	I want to know, what do people. . .
: M	There is definitely something wrong with me. . .
: D	Yeah
: M	. . . I'm sitting here.
: M	anyways, what , oooh {mimicking the crowd}
: [crowd oohing]
: D	We have to do another commercial, we have to do another commercial,
: 	we'll figure. . .
: M	I don't think we should. . .
: D	No, we are going to do one. . .
: M	I don't think, I think we should break the rules. . .
: D	Oh, yah, I'm callin' the shots
: M	. . . tonight. . .I think we should
: D	We're doin' another commercial
: D	We'll be right back

: ---Commercial---
: [Madonna smoking a cigar]
: D	Counting Crows will be out here in a little bit and Madonna is with
: 	us, if you're just joining us, so far it has been a fascinating
: 	interview.
: M	yeah, you just, Dave just slobbered all over my cigar
: D	ya, know you asked me to light it for you and I thought I was doing
: 	the gentlemanly thing
: M	This is the closest I'm ever going to get to kissing you
: D	Aaah, well. . . 
: [crowd aahing]
: D	. . .We could certainly change that, ya know what I mean
: D	. . .If I don't have to wait in line
: [laughter]
: D	it's a joke, I'm sorry
: M	We'll you're not in the NBA, so forget about it
: D	[laughing] now, Madonna, I'm told that you've prepared a little
: 	special comedy thing for us, your own kind of . . 
: M	Me?
: D	Yes you, your top ten list,there, and I think all America is. . 
: M	Want to get it?  [she is sitting on it]
: D	[Madonna leans to the right and Dave reaches to get it] oh, man, uh
: 	damn thing seems to be stuck
: [Madonna laughing hysterically]
: D	Somebody bring me the Jaws of Life!
: M	See?
: D	There, Ok
: M	See, I haven't dated that many basketball players
: D	alright, just, [unwrinkling paper]
: M	That was a very subtle joke
: D	there, ok.  How you been, ya doin' alright? You look pretty good, 
: 	everything going alright?
: M	Are you talkin' to me?
: D	I'm talkin' to you, yah
: M	This seems all very rehearsed
: D	I know
: M	Why did you have to go and read a top ten list?
: D	We do it every night, have you ever seen the show?
: [laughter]
: M	Well, actually I have seen the show, but I've never, I mean I've
: 	always been doing something while I was watching the show.
: D	Oh, I know , I've heard, I've heard all about you.  
: M	Exactly, So
: M	I don't really, it's not funny [crumples up top ten and throws it
: 	behind her] forget it.
: [audience claps]
: D	Well, now what the hell are we going to do?
: M	oh (fuck) it
: D	Now, come on, you, you know you
: M	We're going to have to deal with each other
: D	oh, lets don't do that.
: M	No holds, barred
: D	We have tape?  Tape of what?
: M	Tape? Why can't we just talk to each other , why do we have to have
: 	all of this contrived (bullshit) 
: M	You know, (fuck) the tape, (fuck) the list, everything. . . .you know
: 	what I'm saying?
: D	Oh, man
: M	I think we should get. . .don't you want to show everybody the	
: 	underwear
: D	well, uh, I think most everybody has seen underwear 
: M	No they haven't seen , they haven't seen my unde. . , mine
: D	Now ,that's not true
: [laughter]
: M	no,no,no,no, they saw me out of my underwear, they haven't seen me in
: 	my underwear
: D	What? oh, jeez we're out of time,
: D	[laughing] you know, uh. . .
: M	don't make me act a fool, Dave
: D	no, no, you know it was fun, I get a big kick out of you and . . . 
: M	really? in what way
: D	yeah. . .
: M	what part of your body?
: D	I think you're a nice. . .
: M	where?
: D	You know I think you're a decent, nice person, you know. . .
: M	uh, huh
: D	and uh, I'm happy you came by here tonight and gross us all out
: [laughter]
: D	But you know, I'm just you know
: M	Isn't there anything you really want to ask me?
: D	[sighs] you know, it's seems like we know almost everything there is
: 	to know about you
: M	really?
: D	Tell us something we don't know.
: M	You don't know a (god) damn thing
: D	yeah?, like what?
: D	What's the next look?  What's the next incarnation?  What's the next
: 	sort of a image, what do we uh . . 
: M	That's what you want to know?
: D	yeah
: M	No, that's not what you want to know.
: D	Oh, jeez were out of time again
: [laughter]
: D	What are you going to do now, what are you going to do after the show
: M 	Did you know that it's good if you pee in the shower?
: D	I'm sorry 
: M	I'm serious
: M	No seriously, peeing in the shower is really good, it, it fights um
: 	um athletes foot.
: M	I'm serious, no urine is like , is like, is like an antiseptic, it's	
: 	all got to do with the enzymes in your body.

: D	Don't, don't you know a good pharmacist? 
: [laughter]
: M	uhm
: D	get yourself some Desinex or whatever that stuff is
: M	I wanted to share something that I knew with you
: D	Ok, well, thank very much and uh I'm going to try to wrap this up.
: M	Do you have a girlfriend?
: D	Yeah
: M	Really?
: D	Yeah
: M	uhm
: D	what do you care?  
: [laughter]
: D	What, like a guy like me, wouldn't have a girlfriend?
: [Audience member]	yeah Dave!
: D	Yeah, thank you very much sir!
: [laughter]
: D	What about you, do you have a boyfriend?
: M	I thought you were going to ask me if I had a girlfriend. um
: D	Are you currently interested in someone?
: M	hmm,hmm
: D	Oh, really, what's his name?
: M	Dave
: D	Dave?  No. no,no, not . . .former mayor of New York, Dave Dinkins?
: [laughter]
: D	GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY! [stands up waving and kissing like show is
: 	over]
: M	look I don't want to . . .
: D	you have to, we have to say goodbye now
: M	why?
: D	because we have other guests
: M	why?
: D	probably, probably not anymore, but we should
: M	can't this just go on and on?
: D	oh, it seems like it has, don't it?
: [laughter]
: D	you know we want to get the Counting Crows out here and we want to
: 	get the bagger 
: M	why?
: D	We want to hear their song, they have a little song they've planned
: 	for us, so we'd like to hear it
: D	and the grocery bagger, you don't want to break his heart, do you?
: M	[Shakes her head yes]
: D	No, look at this [clock showing the time is 12:13] Look see? Hi how
: 	ya doing?
: 	oh, ok, so.
: M	It's not really this late anyway, this is all a fantasy.
: D	right, but I mean when
: M	We are living ahead of the time when it actually is
: D	Exactly, very heavy Madonna, thank you
: [laughing]
: D	I don't know, I don't kn. . .
: M	Don't fuck with me Dave?
: D	I know
: M	Don't make me act a fool
: D	um, so I think what we'll do is. . 
: M	wait a minute, I just want to ask you one more question
: D	yeah, sure, go ahead shoot
: M	Have you ever smoked Endo?
: D	I'm sorry? 
: M	Have you ever smoked Endo?
: D	I don't know what you're talking about
: M	You're a (god) damn liar!
: D	I , No, I ah, uh, ah, I don't ah, I don't 
: [Madonna laughing hysterically]
: [organ music]
: D	No, I don't , I , uh sorry, I don't, I don't know what you're talking
: 	about
: M	Well, you should.
: D	alright, well, I'll put that on my list of things to do 
: Audience member 	Get off!
: D	[writing on a piece of paper] Smoke some endo!  
: M	oh, oh, oh, and pee in the shower
: D	Ok, pee in the shower
: 	Get those panties cleaned, ok, alright Madonna
: M	Don't tell me you haven't peed in the shower.
: D	[laughing strangely] whoop
: M	Everybody pees in the shower and everybody picks their nose.
: Audience member		Get off!
: D	Ok, now, um
: M	Why do we have to be, Why do you keep flashing that card?
: D	because, we because. . .
: M	Can't we just break the rules?
: Audience member		Get off!
: M	Who said that?
: D	No, no, that's the guy you wouldn't kiss earlier
: [laughter]
: D	The guy out there, you irritated him
: D	alright, ok, now
: M	Is the show almost over?
: D	The show is nearly over, we have to say goodbye now
: M	We only have a few minutes
: D	We only have a few minutes and thank you again from the bottom of my
: 	heart, it was nice of you to stop by tonight
: [applause]
: D	Madonna!
: [applause]
: M	When you come back I'll still be here, (fuck) it!
: D	of course that's what I was going to say, she, she, [in a loud crazy
: 	voice] she won't leave, we can't get rid of her, what if she's still 
: 	here tomorrow  night!
: [laughter]
: [organ music, Jaws?]
: D	[in a strange voice] ah, that's crazy, ah, ah, 
: [laughter]
: D	Ah, just for the hell of it let's do a commercial and see what
: 	happens, we'll be right back
: [laughter]
: ----Commercial---

:           __
:          /  \		
:         / ..|\		If I could wave my magic wand 
:        (_\  |_)		I'd make everything all right
:        /  \@'		If I could wave my magic wand
:       /     \		I'd set everybody free		--Neil Peart, Rush
:  _   /  `   |
:  \\/  \  | _\
:   \   /_ || \\_						Greg Greenberg
:    \____)|_) \_)			 dykstra@falcon.cc.ukans.edu

: From: elemargo@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (STEPHEN G. MARGOLIS)
: Newsgroups: alt.fan.letterman
: Subject: Show transcript, slightly editted
: Date:  3 Apr 1994 21:47 EST      
: Distribution: world
: Keywords:  

: -------------------
: Stephen G. Margolis                                     University at Buffalo
: Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering               201 Bell Hall
: Telephone: (716)645-2596  FAX: (716)645-3656              SUNY Amherst Campus
: E-mail: elemargo@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu                    Buffalo NY 14260 USA


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 14:43:54 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 14:32:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: test
To: ethan miller <nrg@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404111657.JAA27499@mail.netcom.com>
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Thanks, Ethan, for the explanation.  I hope I didn't sound too accusative 
in pointing out Bryce and your name.  I didn't mean to pin the blame on 
anyone, I just wanted some info.  

I can understand the situation that TEST was in, and I agree that in most 
cases, we have to blame the bunk SF laws and not the promoters.  I just 
wish the voice mail had indicated the age limit on wednesday instead of 
saturday night...

Also, since TEST seems to be the logical follow-up to SpaceLab, why not 
try to use the Trocadero, which is 18+?  If the upstairs space is too 
small, then how about downstairs?

///////{{{{{{{{{{{(((((((((([[[[[[[[232]]]]]]]])))))))))}}}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\
Seth

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 15:38:39 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 15:36:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Can anyone help me with the following records??
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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At the last two Full Moons, I heard Markie play some incredible sets.  I 
was curious if anyone could help me with the record titles.

Record kept on saying 'Activator' 'Activator' 'You need some Activator'

Another one is a Cypress Hill sample from the instrumental song Interlude.  
It's a echoey siren sound that fades in and out.

And the last one keeps on saying "Ami Ami Ami" and has this incredible 
high pitched female voice singing in the background.  Wow what a song!

So if anyone can ID them for me, I'd appreciate it.


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 16:06:42 1994
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 16:06:29 -0700
In-Reply-To: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
        "And speaking of 21+ parties...bad time at Wicked" (Apr 11,  2:27pm)
References: <9404111827.AA09116@pilot.njin.net>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.0 15dec93)
To: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: And speaking of 21+ parties...bad time at Wicked
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The thing about King St. is it can be bad when it's too crowded and hot,
or it can be just about damn near perfect.

Wickeds have been drawing a cross-section of the club, street and rave
crowds for a long time.  Since King St. is so much smaller than 1015
Folsom, it's no wonder it got over-crowded.  

I am particularly sensitive to crowd dynamics which is why I wait for
that optimal time when the music and the crowd density and attention are
all converging.  It's cheaper than playing the lottery or the ponies and
overall a lot more fun!

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 16:31:11 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 16:34:24 -0800
To: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: test
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  2:32 PM 4/11/94 -0700, Seth Joshua Horvitz wrote:
>Thanks, Ethan, for the explanation.  I hope I didn't sound too accusative 
>in pointing out Bryce and your name.  I didn't mean to pin the blame on 
>anyone, I just wanted some info.  
>
>I can understand the situation that TEST was in, and I agree that in most 
>cases, we have to blame the bunk SF laws and not the promoters.  I just 
>wish the voice mail had indicated the age limiy instead of 
>saturday night...
>
>Also, since TEST seems to be the logical follow-up to SpaceLab, why not 
>try to use the Trocadero, which is 18+?  If the upstairs space is too 
>small, then how about downstairs?
>
>///////{{{{{{{{{{{(((((((((([[[[[[[[232]]]]]]]])))))))))}}}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\
>Seth

It's all about money. Trocadero wanted $300 plus the bar. Downstairs they
try and get $3000 + $1500 bar guarantee. Unfortunately none of us (alex,
jonah, myself) have the draw to be able to count on covering those kind of
numbers....

Deco (where test was) keeps the bar and lets the promoters keep the door.

Really warehouses are the way to go, just very hard to find.

We are however trying, and you'll be happy to know that I've recently
struck a deal with Komotion (which is an artists collaborative
workspace/recording studio/party space in SF) to do parties there this
summer. They are absolutely *all ages* not just 18+.

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 17:07:36 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 17:00:43 -0700
From: scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu (Scott Everett Swiger)
Message-Id: <199404120000.RAA09424@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Lane & Eileen @ UC Davis
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


My friend Chuck Raeder is trying to get ahold of Lane or Eileen from
UC Davis, so would anyone that has their number(s) please email in 
person.  Thanks in advance!

Peace + respect,
scottie

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 17:08:03 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Music
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I just got the William Orbit - Strange Cargo III disk and think it's some
of the best tasting ear candy I've ever heard.  Are Strange Cargo and
Strange Cargo II as good or better or how do they compare?

-Guthrie

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From: scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu (Scott Everett Swiger)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: VIVID
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Hi folks, just a quick report on VIVID...it was a break-in (my first
break-in, and my first SC party) in an abandoned warehouse in SC, near
some offices and a gym so it went from about 1 to 6 am, but oh, how it
_went_!  This party reminded me of when I first started going to raves -
the crowd seemed relatively young (-21) and their energy, friendliness,
and high-spiritedness translated into a whopping Vibe - I haven't heard
that many whoops, screams, and cheers for a long time :)  About 150 
people attended, so I imagine the prmo
J

promoters were able to give some $ to the SC homeless shelter (this so,
Andy?).  My only real complaint was with the sound system, which was
sufficiently loud, but WAY too bassy, that muddy, reverberant bass that
vibrates your chest and hurts your ears.  The result was that for the 
first 4 hours, the music sounded remarkably similar, except when a break
would hit and you could actually hear the treble & midrange in the songs
for a short time, then back to the boom-boom-boom.  Another problem was
that the DJs were forced to play 40-45 min. sets, due to time constraints.

But don't get me wrong, these were just details in an otherwise wonderful
encounter with the South Bay house community, an experience that has
prompted Mother Earth Sound System to (more) seriously consider doing an
outdoor event down there in the future (so all you DJs and sound equipment
owners that are interested in a joint effort get in touch with us!  My # is
(510) 549-6233)

Anyway, things ended around 6:30, and we headed back north very pleasantly
surprised and satisfied.  Too bad throwing parties up here isn't as easy!
(Thank goodness for the beautiful outdoor sites around here, that allow
a bit of escape from the whole SF bureaucracy of party politics!)

Peace + respect to the Santa Cruz underground and all y'all!

			s   c   o   t   t   i   e
			*************************
			MOTHER EARTH SOUND SYSTEM
			*************************
			UNITE  CELEBRATE  SURVIVE

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 18:45:56 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 18:45:26 -0700
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To: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>,
        ethan miller <nrg@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: test
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Seth says:

>I just wish the voice mail had indicated the age limit on wednesday instead 
>of saturday night...

I'm not sure what the status was on Wednesday night, but as of
Friday there was no location for TEST, and on Saturday the
party was practically cancelled until someone hooked up with Cleo
for the Art Deco bar. So, there was no way they could have known 
on Wednesday that it was going to be 21+ because on Wednesday they
didn't know that they would end up at the Art Deco.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 19:42:42 1994
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From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Message-Id: <199404120243.TAA21446@netcom8.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Can anyone help me with the following records??
To: sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Sun Kim)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 19:43:38 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404111515.C9018-0100000@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu> from "Sun Kim" at Apr 11, 94 03:36:20 pm
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> 
> Another one is a Cypress Hill sample from the instrumental song Interlude.  
> It's a echoey siren sound that fades in and out.

That is the new one by Air Liquide.

> And the last one keeps on saying "Ami Ami Ami" and has this incredible 
> high pitched female voice singing in the background.  Wow what a song!

That might be The Tribal EP from River Ocean on Strictly Rhythm...


Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
...............................................................................

trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................




From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 20:50:33 1994
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From: janie@netcom.com (Janie Fogel)
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Subject: light-n up
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From lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM Mon Apr 11 17:08:13 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 17:06:51 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
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To: janie@netcom.com
Subject: lighten-up
Status: RO


Well, lee and i decided to try out light-n up.  It was great fun.  
Considering that this is just the second week of the new season, critical 
mass was achieved (bearly, but achieved).  First off, they have made some 
physical changes at 1015...i.e., the upstairs room above the main bar in 
the sun room is now an outdoor balcony with tables and chairs.  
Unfortunately it was not open on Sunday but will be totally wonderful when 
it is.  They now have couches by the stage and removed the tables and 
chairs on the dance floor making the dance area larger.  The dark room
is much lighter now which makes it much more friendly.  Also, they have
replaced all beanbags with new ones!  

Markie was spinning in the dark room on Sunday and he was just 
an absolute madman.  Even the sun room had great music -- acid jazz.  
 
It was strange not to see too many of the old regulars from the past, but  
it's still a fun dress-up party, and i believe that in a few more weeks it 
will be right where it left off.   

Light-n up, boogie buffet, whatever you wish to call it -- Welcome back.

janie
 



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 21:19:08 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Wicked, GH, LU, 21+ (long)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I went to Wicked (my favorite nightime event) this weekend to do some
promo, and of course have a good time.  I missed Markie's set :(, but came
in time to hear Jeno do the do.  Since I got there @ 4:00 and had to leave
by 6, I had to compact my good time into 120 minutes.  Success!  I talked
to a reliable source who said the boyz were in rare form for the most part.
I could not stay to hear Garth's set, but it was good to at least catch
geeno for a few.  Wicked is the shit!  A great party, a cool vibe, only for
the serious crackers.

GH was GOIN ON.  Although the numbers could use some improvement we had
Swing Kid & Leon spinning some deep trippy house beats.  This was the first
time I heard the Swing Kid and he is a really good DJ. He will be there
next week, so try not to miss him.  Leon is Leon, he really played a much
harder house set than I've heard him spin, but he was all that.  Al & James
I've ranted and raved enough about so...onto the front room!  We had Josh
doin the dub/soul/funk do, then Jason took over getting that deep soulful
groove along with some wicked funk, and then the Baroness took over to
bring things to the next level Chicago style.  That girl is the shit!  I
look forward to hearing her again this weekend @ GH.  Plus she's a really
nice and *real* person.  Loves her work and it shows.  I am continually
amazed at the amount of talent in SF,and the number of people just into
spinning.  Josh & Markie are probably the two DJ's who are *the* most
diverse in terms of music, style, etc.  Josh is a really smooth DJ who is
unparalleled when it comes to his work.  He and Markie are at THAT level,
and that's why it's always a pleasure to hear them spin.  It seems GH is
the place for grubbin and groovin, so stop by if your stomach is empty and
you want a kickin breakfast/brunch & brew! I met Larry & his lovely wife!
Man, it's so cool to see two people into each other!  Coolness!  Thanks for
coming!!!!

After GH ended, I strolled over to P's party @ 1015. Light-n-up was
cracker-jack central!  They ALL came out of the woodwork for that gig (I
HAD to steal that line Geoff; all props to ya for it tho!)!  When I got
there Mark Farina was fuckin it up!  Some bouncy, boomin Chi style grooves
that had the place rockin.  Even Markie got up to dance. I told P to open
that fuckin' roof to let that good air in, but the cops are WAITIN to shut
it down for the slightest reason, so until it cools off, that place will be
one hot house.  Cool party tho' and it continues to go on!

21+, King St., etc.
Contrary to what everyone thinks a party ought to be, I thought that Wicked
was *wicked*.  To address some of Sean's comments tho...Yeah, it is a posse
of sorts.  I would say that Wicked is being very true to their posse.  The
21+ *IS* the foundation of Wicked.  People have grown in the scene
listening to the boyz, and gettin' into the groove that is Wicked.  Just as
YSH has it's ideals and it's goals, and it's family, Wicked has theirs.
Nothin to bag on just because they have a loyal following.  Every party
does in one way or another.  In general I have always had a good time @
Wicked's.  I have not had such luck with the disorganized FMM, so I stopped
attending, and stopped talkin' about it (sorry for this brief lapse ;) ).
I am glad Wicked is still goin' although I do wish that they would feature
an SF DJ every once in a while (DM, puhleeze, there are others who spin
here hella more consistently than that Doc dude so..), but it's their gig,
and it is obvious their posse (damn near 1000) likes what they do so...I
guess I just don't understand the gripe Sean.  Yeah some woman bumped into
you and was rude, but like so many have pointed out to me there are some
general rules of etiquette, and when in Rome...Wicked is a dance party.  I
figure if you want to stand around and stare.gawk.talk why not do it near
the DJ booth, not in front of it?  There are plenty of places on either
side (including behind) that allow you to see all the manueverings of the
DJ, so I am perplexed as to why you did not choose those options after the
second bump...People can be really high on the music or other things and
may not *think* before they act/react.  So I know, whenever I am at a
Wicked to have that *long* fuse goin.  With 600-1000 people there it can
get messy.  There was no excuse for her behaviour, but then why bag on the
whole party just because of a tweek?  As for smoking and all the other
*rave* ecoutrements (lights, etc.), that ain't Wicked.  Personally I have
seen just about all the visuals I want to see, they are in the music!  I
don't need intellabeams and other shit to get me off.  Kickin beats, good
mixing, and motherfuckers goin off is what I need, and *expect* at a party.
Wicked did all of that + some.  I *HATE* smoke, I hate the smell of the
shit in my clothes, etc.  However, I have come to expect, reluctantly, that
there are alot of people who smoke on the scene.  I wish they wouldn't, but
they do.  I made a conscious choice to enter despite that, and accept the
consequences (laundry the next day and dark soot in my nose).

As for smile factor, it could be what you were giving off.  I saw penty of
people smiling and having a great time.  Lotsa hugs, lotsa smiles.  You get
what you give, in sincerity.  I understand how you feel about being "out of
it" (i.e. the family), but in some well established sub-scenes, you know as
well as I it can take a while to get comfortable, but once you do things
will happen.  It can be difficult; time is the answer IMHO.

I am *not* defending Wicked per se.  Just giving an alternative view of
what I consider a solid party.  I had a good time in my 120 minutes there.

21+ to me is very cool.  I like hangin' with 21+ cuz most of the people I
hang with are 21+.  It's not that I dislike 18+  (let's face it, the 18+
crowd comes and if they stick it out eventually become the 21+ crowd), it's
just that most of the real digs IMO are at the 21+ parties.  The
expectations are a bit higher in terms of music, and the DJ's have a bit
more flexibility to mix it up a bit, from what I've heard.  Also, if you've
grown up in a scene, your tastes may change over time.  Yeah I use to love
the tweaked out visuals and the overloading of the senses, but I could be
without all of that if the music is bumpin'.  It seems others feel the same
way.  Each type of club has it's own essence. 18+ can be really magical.
Witness the first Equinox.  All ages, and was so full of energy from
everyone that it just went ballistic. 18+ gives out that crucial energy a
party needs to get kickin, and should not be underestimated.  But neither
should an older crowd.  The energy and tastes may be different, but that's
all surface.  As long as what's underneath is real then there is room for
everyone to do what they want, how they want!  I just don't understand the
"don't smoke", "don't drink", "don't dose" mentality that people sometimes
bandy about.  I like to smoke, but not tobacco.  Love to have a few beers
in the night, and nothing beats a cold beer in the morning IMO.  And if
people wanna get loose, more power to them, as long as they respect others
and be somewhat considerate when they enter the next phase of
consciousness.

Man, it's just a party.  Light-n-up!

Chi style:  Charlotte is really good, and I have really been impressed with
her selection, etc.!  Mark F. is the man!.  I can't wait till Derek C.
Comes back so I can hear him do the do.  It is refreshing to hear that Chi
sound come to SF.  Just another ingredient in the Mix to make things even
more diverse!  Only in the Bay Area!  Fuck YEAH!!!!

Audi 5 & Pax,
John


=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 22:00:29 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9404120501.AA15778@gaia.internex.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, csc@pilot.njin.net
Subject: Re: And speaking of 21+ parties...bad time at Wicked
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> 
> After I spent 15 minutes finding some legal parking that wasn't on a
> totally dark street,

I got there at about 1 am and parked on 2nd street in a reasonably
lighted (though dimly) place

> I walked over to the King St. garage, a space I
> went to once before and didn't like (and which other people have
> complained about). It's too small and has poor ventilation. Very very
> hot and smokey. You know, I read the other day that smoking has
> dropped considerably in California, though you wouldn't know it from
> the rave scene. If you're smoking in a closed space where people are
> exercising, then basically you just don't give a fuck about anyone
> else's health and what you're doing to them. Let's call a duck a duck,
> eh?

Well I don't like smoke and I don't like inhaling other's smoke but I like
the music and the crowd that goes to Wicked so i put up with it.

> 
> So anyway, it was $15, which was too much for a party in a small space
> like that with no visuals other than a few intellabeams. Acoustics
> weren't very good either, with the bass overwhelming everything. Poor
> Jeno was tweaking the knobs all night trying to get a good sound out
> of that space. I didn't connect the directions with that particular
> space, or I probably wouldn't have went. The Goons weren't being
> gooney like the other time I went there (Which Crunch wrote all
> about), so that was very cool.

It is true the sound was not as good as I have heard in that place, the
bass was _way_ to muddy and the highs weren't bright enough.

> 
> I hooked up with a couple of friends of mine I was supposed to meet,
> who had come with other friends, and after about a minute they danced
> off and never acknowledged me again. Well, foo.
> 
> And for that matter, something really bothers me about the Wicked
> crowd. I just don't feel like I belong. There *was* a big vibe going,
> but it was a strange one; not much smile factor.

There are plenty of smiles at wicked's but this is a psychedelic 
trance-dance party, most of the regulars a gettin busy dancing themselves
into oblivion.

> 
> And people kept bumping into me. I'd find a nice spot and dance
> without moving around a lot, and I'd get an elbow in the back, or
> someone would accidentally swipe my head. No big deal, but they were
> oblivious to it. A couple of people bumped me several times without
> even acknowledgeing me. I'd move off to a less crowded spot and the
> experience was repeated.

Yeah I got bumped alot to, it is newbies for the most part, they haven't
learned how to move through a crowd or dance without bumping into each other.

> 
> Friends and Family was even more crowded than this event, had just a
> big a vibe, and a lot of people were clearly out of their heads, but
> they were _nice_. If someone whopped you one, they apologised, or
> turned and smiled. No such courtesy at Wicked.
> 
> So anyway, Markie was laying down one of his fat house grooves, so I
> headed up cause I wanted to watch his technique. I found a clear spot
> near the turntables, and watched (with a big fat grin on my face cause
> he's so good) and bobbed a bit. After about 10 minutes, some woman
> shoves by me very rudely, and dances next to me. She edges over and
> bumps me. I look at her. She says something, but I can't hear it.
> I figure she's apologising (wow), so I turn my attention back to
> Markie. I get bumped again. And again. I turn and she's looking at me.
> I lean over so she can yell in my ear, and she tells me that if I'm
> not going to dance, go over there.
> 
> What?
> 
> I just shake my head and again turn back to Markie. She yells at me
> again. Says this is her spot. I tell her to be nice, I want to watch
> Markie. She repeats this a couple of times and I end up telling her
> quite forcefully to FUCK OFF!

Sean, Wicked IS NOT, I repeat NOT the party to just stand in front of the 
DJ and watch.  Mutha fuckers are always goin-off in front of the DJ and
It really pisses me off when I really getting into it and some (usually guy)
decides to just stand there and gawk at the DJ right in front of me.
I must admit she was rude, but I have wanted to do what she did to you, I just
have more restraint than she had.

> 
> At which point I was having strong thoughts of FUCK THIS. Is this the
> usual Wicked crowd or did I pick a bad night, or does one need to go
> to Wicked 30 or 40 times before people are nice to you?


Sean try calming down and dancing a bit, Wicked is a Psychedelic
Acid House Dance Party.  That is what the crowd comes there to do.
You notice there is not much of a chill out space there, it because it
is a DANCE party.

> 
> Well anyway except for that asshole, I really enjoyed watching Markie
> do his stuff. I never realized before just how much he works at it,
> and how much he samples. Cool beans.  I hung around for Jeno's set,
> which I had high hopes for, but I left an hour into 122 BPM wailing
> diva house, which the crowd really liked but which I wasn't in the
> mood for.

Wicked is a Acid House Party.


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 23:09:41 1994
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 23:09:26 -0700
In-Reply-To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
        "Wicked, GH, LU, 21+ (long)" (Apr 11,  9:20pm)
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Nice to see the props for the Baroness from jsl!

All these reports are getting me juiced for my return to SF!!
My travel is being cut severely this month by a combo of work, an
unexpected need to search for a new abode after living at my old
QTH (old ham radio term) for eight years, and practice for my
incipient promo tape (did my first rehearsal Friday and it went well!).

Tonight I'll be on KBOO FM between 2:30 and 5:30 am with my old friend
Jan Celt, we'll be spinning NEWNESS of all types including some vinyl,
some CDs and some mix tapes.  If I can arrange it I'll be on vrave
from there too!

see yez in da fewchah!

phred

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 11 23:14:40 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 23:14:27 -0700
In-Reply-To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
        "Re: And speaking of 21+ parties...bad time at Wicked" (Apr 11, 10:01pm)
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Before we stand on Sean's virtual toes for too long, let me just point
out that the clubber elbows-swanging-cigarette-jabbin'-plowin-through-da-
floor move is always well on display at Wicked (and ComeUnity too), and
it comes wid da territory -- but it comes down to *awareness*.  When the
*awareness quotient* goes up, you KNOW it.  And some of those club-types
turn out to be some of the most aware on the floor, when the time comes.
Sometimes the party needs to get hot'n'sweaty
'n'bumpy'n'crowdy before it gets OFF.  It's damn disappointing when it
doesn't, of course, but more times than not it does if you hang in there.

That's why timing and patience are an essential part of catching the groove.

imho

phred


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 00:07:16 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 03:04:53 EDT
Subject: Join The Tribe!!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I apologize for taking up any more bandwidth than necessary but I work with a
cutting edge company involved in AppleTalk (Mac) based networks in the East
Bay. The technology is definitely cutting edge, the mindset is very
progressive and low key, and the organizational structure is decidedly flat. 
If you are interested in what is essentially a jr. sales position (no the pay
isn't ridiculously low) and at least have 
some level of sales background, shoot me off an e-mail at:

mark@tribe.com

and we'll get into some more detail about the position, the potential and
what you bring to the table. This is definitely a growing company. The
position we're looking to fill is the position I was hired for just six weeks
ago so there is definitely growth potential....

NOW, BACK TO WRESTLING!!

Thanks,

Mark Sigal                  "From the seeds of personal responsibility,
mark@tribe.com          Blossoms the power to change the world."
510-814-3900

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 01:32:00 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 01:24:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!! (fwd)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, dcraves@american.edu
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hahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahah this is pretty cute...susie(:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 01:37:14 MDT
From: Juggler <IH23%UTEP.bitnet@utepvm.ep.utexas.edu>
To: Vrave List <v-raves@gnu.ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!

                     Little Red Raver Girl
                            by
                      Noah "juggler" Lee
              (respect to the original of course)


[ed's note: This evolved from a trip to Albuquerque for the Orbital X
rave. We had to keep ourselves entertained on the four hour drive with
no radio or tape deck. Gotta do something!!]


   Once upon a time, cuz, heck, what better time than that, there lived
Little Red Raver Girl. She was a happy little girl who loved to wear
baggy overalls and the groobiest striped shirts. Her red pigtails and
keen shoes could charm the Blow-Pop (tm) out of any raver's mouth.

   Well, it seems that Little Red Raver Girls's promoter grandmother was
not feeling so hot cuz an event she was throwing wasn't going so great.
Little Red Raver Girl decided to take a skippity trip over to her grand-
ma's house to deliver some lollipops, a new whistle, and a hit of X. She
only wanted Grandma Promoter to feel better. :)

   Little Red Raver Girl set out into the scary city with a warning from
her tired out hippy mother, who warned her of the evils of the world. As
usual it went in one ear and out the other. Little Red Raver Girl only
wanted peaz and unity and didn't like to hear about the bad people out
there because they gave off such bad vibes.

  Hippity, trippy skipping down the avenue whistling some housy, funky
toon, Little Red Raver Girl hardly noticed the Big Bad Gothic Girl come
out of the shadows of an alley.

"Whoa!" said Little Red Raver Girl, "You put quite a fright into me!"

"Yeah, whats new?" angrily replied the Big Bad Gothic Girl.

"Hey, you wanna sticker? I got heart stickers!! Or how about a
lollipop?" asked Little Red Raver Girl.

"Nah, I don't want no stinking lollipop," gothically replied Big Bad
Gothic Girl. "Where you think you're headed to in this dark, cold,
miserable world of ours??"

"Well," said Little Red Raver Girl, "i'm off to see Grandma Promoter
to deliver some goodies so she can be happy and throw the phattest event
this side of the world."

"Big event eh?" interestingly replied Big Bad Gothic Girl. She thought
to herself, "Hmmmm....you know I bet if I get those goodies I could
throw a dark, scary event the way I want it."

"Well, I best be off now. Peace, love and unity to you Ms. Gothic Girl."

"Uhh...yeah, sure."

And Little Red Raver Girl was off. But so was Big Bad Gothic Girl.
Seeing as how she hung out in dark alleys all night she happened to know
a shortcut to Grandma Promoter's warehouse. She sped ahead to beat
Little Red Raver Girl there.

[here's a plot twist in the story! Oooooohhhh!!!]

Little Red Raver Girl continued on her way wondering why someone would
paint their face chalk white and wear all black clothing on such a
beautiful day. Just as she was daytripping this she ran into a funky
phresh young man stepping from a record store.

"Yowza!" exclaimed Little Bloo DJ Guy, "Sorry about the bumping action
there."

"Oh excuse me! I wasn't watching where I was going. Would you like a
sticker? A lollipop?"

"Yeah! Sure! Thanks a lot!"

"Here ya go," said Little Red Raver Girl as she stuck on a groovy frog
sticker onto Little Bloo DJ Guy's chest. She hands him a lollipop and
asks, "Are you a DJ by any chance?"

"I certainly am! In fact i'm supposed to be spinning later at Grandma
Promoters event. You going??"

"Yesssss!!! I'm her granddaughter! I'm Little Red Raver Girl! I bet you
are Little Bloo DJ Guy then!" exclaimed she. Quite a good guess too
seeing as how he had on a bloo hoody shirt with "Bloo DJ" in holographic
type on it. She's quite the quick witted one ya know. :)

"Yep! That's me! I'm sooo happy to meet you! Hey, I gotta run but i'm
going over to Grandma Promoter's Houze of Funky Toons for the Pre-Party,
so I hope I see you there," said Little Bloo DJ Guy.

"You sure will. Be seeing you later!" happily exclaimed Little Red Raver
Girl. And off went Little Bloo Dj Guy. Little Red Raver Girl breathed
a sigh, for Little Bloo DJ Guy was sooo sweet and just the nicest guy
she had met in the longest time. She really wanted to hear him spin
and get to know him better. "Maybe at the pre-show," she excitedly
thought.

[Meanwhile...]

   Back at Grandma Promoter's Houze of Funky Toons, the bass was
bumping as Grandma prepared for the rave and was stressing hard getting
ready for the show. Then, all of a sudden a "ding, dong, boom boom boom"
came from her specially designed doorbell.

"Who is it??" asked Grandma Promoter.

"Tis me! Little Red Raver Girl" replied a slightly gruff and not quite
happy voice.

"I best let her in to help me and cheer her up. She sounds as bad as
I do!" thought Grandma Promoter to herself and opened the door.

As soon as she had in leaped Big Bad Gothic Girl and she quickly tied
up Grandma Promoter in a extra long pair of fishnet stockings and
handcuffed her to the sink in the bathroom with her handcuff belt.

"You can't do this! It doesn't promote peace and unity!" cried Grandma
Promoter. "Lemme go and i'll hook you up with a hit of X and you can
dance all night with us and feel the groove. I guarantee you'll feel
better."

"Nice try grandma. Stuff it," and Big Bad Gothic Girl promptly
crammed a black candle into Grandma Promoter's mouth to quiet her down.
She then went on to change the music to something much less happy and
got into some of Grandma's  clothes. "Ick...these are soooo bright and
happy. I think i'll throw up."

At just about the time she was done there came a sound in the warehouse,
"ding, dong boom boom boom."

"Yeah, who is it??" asked Big Bad Gothic Girl who was now dressed like
Grandma Promoter.

"It's me!! Little Red Raver Girl!!" came the reply. "Let me in Grandma!
We need to change that music and make you feel phresh!"

Big Bad Gothic Girl opened the door and let Little Red Raver Girl in.

"Why Grandma! What a pale, icky, clammy white face you have!" said
Little Red Raver Girl.

"The better to scare you with my dear." came the reply.

"Why Grandma! What morbid, black fingernails you have!" exclaimed Little
Red Raver Girl.

"The better to scratch off your face with you little happy hippie wanna
be!!" yelled Big Bad Gothic Girl and she LEAPED from her baggies and
pounced on Little Red Raver Girl.

Just at that moment the door swung open and in sped Little Bloo DJ Guy
with his patented Bag O' DJ Music. He rapidly threw on the phattest of
toons and started spinning and cutting it up as best as he could.

As he did this, a strange feeling overcame Big Bad Gothic Girl. She
felt a pumping bass shaking her body. She felt a warmth overcome her
entire soul. She wanted to stop almost, but she couldn't help herself
from getting up off of Little Red Raver Girl and dance. She got down.
She boogied. She threw massive moves. Little Red Raver Girl rushed to
the john and freed Grandma Promoter. They went out to the dancefloor
right as a large crowd had gathered at the door. The pre-party was in
full effect and at the heart of it was Big Bad Gothic Girl dancing
everyone into amazement. She gave everyone a hug and some a kiss she
felt so good. The vibe was the best they had ever felt that night.
Grandma's event went off like never before and was of legend promoter
proportions. Little Bloo Dj Guy spun his best set and fell deeply in
love with Little Red Raver Girl to everyones happiness.

And they lived happily ever after.

T h e  E n d.

[The people in this story are totally fictional and any relation to any-
one in real life is purely coincidence. Heck, I made it up on a trip
for Christs sake!! :) Hope you liked it. You can reprint it, distribute
it to anywhere you want as long as you don't modify it and keep my
name attached to it as the author. Peace to all of you and keep the
vibe alive. - - - Juggler [Noah Lee - ih23@utep.bitnet]


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 07:43:47 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 07:43:36 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404121443.AA02776@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Music
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Mark:
> I just got the William Orbit - Strange Cargo III disk and think it's some
> of the best tasting ear candy I've ever heard.  Are Strange Cargo and
> Strange Cargo II as good or better or how do they compare?

Strange Cargo I&II are definately worth having.  II is a little darker
than I, a nice mix of atmospheric ambience and new age electronics.  S.C. I
has some nice guitar work and plenty of electronics as well.  The
Orbit disk closest to S.C. III, however, is Bassomatic - diverse dance
music, also very well produced.  If you're really into sound
production, you'll probably enjoy *everything* William Orbit has done.
Also, look out for the remixes of Water From a Vine Leaf which offer techno
and ambient versions of the first cut off of S.C. III
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 09:06:43 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 09:10:36 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: Testing TESTing 1-2-3
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>Next came Alex, who took Ethan's power boost and just kept running 
>with it.  Alex got the joy of spinning to a full floor, something that
>was unhappily denied him on Friday night at the Haze.

If you ask me, Alex is easily one of the best djs in SF at the moment.
Relentless, deep, tweaky groove_____________

>At 2am Test closed up -- it would have been rude and disrespectful of
>Cleo's hospitality to continue into the realm of ilr all,
>she *is* a businesswoman too.  Cindy and I left, but I think the party
>might have moved deep into the basement (or bassment).

Yes, deep into the bassment where jonah totally blew my mind. Spinning deep
ambient techno, beatmatched no less, is *really* an art.

>I hope things work out better for TEST space-wise next time.  It is a
>brilliant party (made me want to take back all the positive things I said
>about Apocalypse, I guess I was just so starved for a harder party that
>it seemed like water to an a desert).  If any test organizers
>are reading this *please* keep doig this, and *please* keep trying to 
>find spaces that will allow you to do this as all ages.  Spring is
>coming, maybe a TEST outdoor renegade?

Sounds about right  :)

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 09:46:38 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 12:46:01 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404121646.AA24621@pilot.njin.net>
To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Wicked, GH, LU, 21+ (long)
In-Reply-To: <199404120420.VAA04331@mail.netcom.com>
References: <199404120420.VAA04331@mail.netcom.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

John S. Lee writes:

 > ...I guess I just don't understand the gripe Sean.  Yeah some woman
 > bumped into you and was rude, but like so many have pointed out to
 > me there are some general rules of etiquette, and when in
 > Rome...Wicked is a dance party.  I figure if you want to stand
 > around and stare.gawk.talk why not do it near the DJ booth, not in
 > front of it?  There are plenty of places on either side (including
 > behind) that allow you to see all the manueverings of the DJ, so I
 > am perplexed as to why you did not choose those options after the
 > second bump...

I really wasn't in anyone's way. I was off to the side, specifically
because I'm tall and didn't want to block anyone's view (Geoff was
there too, he may have seen me). And I *was* dancing (to quote my own
post, I was "bobbing"). This person was just plain rude, as was
several others. Maybe I just don't do enough "E", but I'm not into
mosh. And I was in a *good* mood at that party. I was really up for
it. Oh, well. I know what to expect next time, so if I go and it does,
I won't complain about it.

Sean




From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 10:04:01 1994
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From: Sharif Torpis <storpis@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199404121702.AA15176@crl.crl.com>
Subject: Re: transcription of the madonna interview on letterman
To: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:02:40 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <01HB1VKAN8MQ00N2FQ@EDEN1.HAC.COM> from "SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com" at Apr 11, 94 02:20:20 pm
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If you don't know why maddie was acting like she was (noone in the media
seems to want to mention it), it was b/c she was high on Indo.


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 10:06:19 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:06:09 -0700
From: ubu Carasik <ubu@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199404121706.KAA17407@elaine27.Stanford.EDU>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Wicked, GH, LU, 21+ (long)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



>> several others. Maybe I just don't do enough "E", but I'm not into
> mosh. And I was in a *good* mood at that party. I was really up for

Jeez, I thought  that raves were mosh as sublimated sex, which is
a massive improvement on mosh as violence.  I *like* mosh, it's like
body surfing with real bodies!  It's all part of inner peace through
sensory overload: it's about epinephrine & pheromones, we all make 'em 
ourselves, the other condiments can come later if at all.  Trances are
swell, but this "alone together" stuff can add up to no shared vibe,
which is a loss, imnsfho.

I think I'd best get me to a Wicked real soon now.  And if it's a good 
night, I'll have left without even caring where the dj's were.  If I wanted
to be a spectator, I'd just stay at my ternimal and post to mailing 
lists!  (hmmmmmmmmm.)

AstroBoy


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 10:11:31 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:11:21 -0700
From: ubu Carasik <ubu@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199404121711.KAA17414@elaine27.Stanford.EDU>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Before the corpse compeletely cools off
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

.........  
as usual, grigsby's keep-it-alive mesage about Kurt Cobain
said stuff I'd like to have said first, and probably said it better.
Ditto mark guthrie.  < preachy part omitted here >


I'll save my tears for Marlon Riggs.  His death wasn't shlock performance
art, it was caused by a virus.  Art & life, keep 'em together, keep 'em
distinct.

AstroBoy

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 10:21:07 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 11:20:12 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: storpis@crl.com, SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Re: transcription of the madonna interview on letterman
	-Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	Would somebody please explain (for someone that's probably totally
ignorant of this) what Indo (or Endo) is exactly?  How's it used? 
Side effects?  Thanks for your time.

>>> Sharif Torpis <storpis@crl.com>  4/12/94, 11:02am >>>

If you don't know why maddie was acting like she was (noone in the
media seems to want to mention it), it was b/c she was high on Indo.




From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 11:15:03 1994
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From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Message-Id: <9404121814.AA06467@bethe.ucdavis.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: strippers and house music
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



Hello, I was in Sacramento on Friday for a bachelor's party (very dirty ...)
but later went to Ooga Booga (a weekly in the calendar).

My brief report is that it wasn't bad.  I didn't pay attention to who
the dj was - it looked like one guy for a long time.  The music was
generic house that got a bit repetitive.  I just like more variety.
Decorations/lighting were minimal.  That is ok with me.

It was above a bowling alley in a new area that was good for a few hundred
people.  (this bowling alley has had after-hours dancing for years)
18+ and $6

It closed around 4:30-5:00 (not 6:00, like the door said) but this might
have been because of a *tired* looking dj.  Maybe some of you under-employed
SF djs could get a job ...?

People were young, beautiful, and very positive.                    
Dave


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 11:16:31 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 11:17:32 -0700
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Message-Id: <199404121817.LAA17857@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: SF rave report
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

SF Rave report  by John Draper (Cap'n Crunch)
---------------------------------------------

  I don't know where to start,  there was so much going on.   I'll start off
with a report of a Golden Gate park rave at the Polo fields thats supposed
to start by 1 pm.    We get there,  but with the Soccer World Cup taking
place soon,  the fields are full of Soccer related activities,  and no sign
of the party.    After calling the info number,  in case it got moved,  we
confirm that its to take place there.   Upon our return,  my friend
recognizes the brightly colored speakers getting loaded on the fields, 
and a few familiar friends hanging around.   Apparently the organizers 
didn't make arrangements for the generator.   I left again to pick up a friend,
and by my return,  the sounds were starting,  but it wasn't that well attended,
but I enjoyed the clear sunney day in the park,  dancing,  warming up for the
evening,  fully intending to go to Wicked.

   In the evening,  I call the Wicked line and discover the location this time
to be at 174 King St.  (King St. garage).   Bummer!!  After such bad vibes 
from attending the last rave at the King St garage,  I had to have my lungs
pumped out after getting seriously ill due to the lack of proper ventilation.
Reports I've gotten from friends confirmed this,  even at 4 am,   it was hot
and crowded.    Instead,  I opted for another outdoor event "Earth House Hold"
scheduled for Saturdy evening.    Before leaving for SF to pick up a friend,
I get word that its to be located out at the Berkeley dump (Same place as
the Full Moon rave was held several months ago).    Just before heading out
there,  I call the info line again just to make sure everything is OK,   but
learned it got moved to the end of 24th St in Potrero district (Not one of
my favorite places,  but it was at least outside).

   I get there around 1:30 am and things were just starting.   This wasn't
one of those 500+ parties,   but the small crowd was just about right,  so
we danced until daylight.   On the way back to the car,  we get reports that
the New Moon rave is really happening,   but it's about a 2 hour drive through
winding roads to get to Pt Reyes Beach.    I somehow manage to get there by
about 9 pm to observe a small crowd,  2 sound systems,  beautiful surroundings,
and spend the early morning to mid afternoon there.   Darcy spun the most 
outragious German trance 140+ bpm that had me skittering about the sand
like an insane idiot.    After that,  someone else (I didn't get his name)
spun Ambient so I took a break from dancing,  and tossed the frisbee around
until the next DJ went on.    Funkey house music soon started to fill the
air,  and I was back dancing again.    Eventually,  the DJ segued into a
really groovy trancey set putting me in pure bliss as I was chilling around
the beach.

   Soon after that,  the park pigs came up and we had to shut down,  due to
the faschist rules they have on amplified sound.    We pack up and head back
to SF,  where I dropped my friend off so he can crash,   but I wanted to party
some more,  so headed over to Light-n-up.   By about 3 pm,   things were really
hopping.   This,  being the 2nd week of Light-n-up,  the crowd of people were 
really groovy,  and good vibes all around.   Markey Mark was spinning some
mixtures of Acid Jazz,  then sped things up into the more traditional housey
sounds when the dark room closed.   Light-n-up closed down shortly after 5 pm,
sp headed over to the EndUp because I still wanted to get in more dancing.

   After several hours,   Aaron picked me up,  we headed out to eat,  shower,
and get cleaned up.    At about 8 pm,  we head back to the End Up,  and danced
until they closed down the outside area (About 11:30 PM).  Shortly after that,
I head back,  being awake an entire weekend without sleep,  chalking up yet
another ravingful weekend in the Bay area.

Keep the scene alive.....
CC

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 13:56:18 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 10:54:02 PDT
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404121754.AA24577@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com, storpis@crl.com,
        uunet!wordperfect.com!LUKEY@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: transcription of the madonna interview on letterman -Reply
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

 Would somebody please explain (for someone that's probably totally
ignorant of this) what Indo (or Endo) is exactly?  How's it used?
Side effects?  Thanks for your time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marijuana.  Indo is slang for Indica, as in Cananbis Indica, one of the
three species of Marijuana.  Or slang for marijuana grown indoors instead
of outside (in-doe, get it?).  Depends on who you ask.

-Mark

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 14:20:03 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 14:21:02 -0700
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Message-Id: <199404122121.OAA13073@mail.netcom.com>
To: jsl@netcom.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404120420.VAA04331@mail.netcom.com> (jsl@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Wicked, GH, LU, 21+ (long)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Regarding your reply about Wicked...Right On!!! I always have had a great
time at a Wicked party. I didn't get to make this one unfortunately, but
I had a great time at the last one at the Townsend. Great crowd, Great Vibe!!!
See you at the next Wicked.

Rox

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 15:24:26 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 15:24:11 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404122224.PAA01078@well.sf.ca.us>
To: jsl@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  Wicked, GH, LU, 21+ (long)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

props to jslee for realizing charlotte is the shit! (finally)  
props to the fellinis, toph & josh for getting her set up
props to buck & toph for helping to bring chisoun, mark & derek, here
(amazing to think that half the cool posts about djs in the past year on
this net postdated those same djs brought to Church while that was still
happening.)
props 2 Wicked for finally realizing they oughta getta sound system.

peace

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 15:31:19 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 16:30:58 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Re: transcription of the madonna interview on letterman
	-Reply -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	Thanks for the info.  Somehow I get the feeling that she wasn't
really on Indo.  Well, she'd have to be on an awful lot to act that
out of it...  I get the impression that Madonna probably knows how to
handle her drugs pretty well.

>>> Mark Guthrie <winston@lurnix.com>  4/12/94, 11:54am >>>

Marijuana.  Indo is slang for Indica, as in Cananbis Indica, one of
the three species of Marijuana.  Or slang for marijuana grown indoors
instead of outside (in-doe, get it?).  Depends on who you ask.

-Mark



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 15:55:19 1994
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From: tazzleberry <tess@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Reply-To: tazzleberry <tess@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: test
To: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Cc: Sea of Sin <kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404110154.B18458-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

in response to your  message about the 21+ problem,let me explain our 
situation.when trying to  put together a party ,youy have certain ideals 
that you try to reach ,such as getting a space thats all ages,having 
cooldoor people ,comfortable space ,free water,etc.we always do 
everything we can to live up to our own ideals.the space on saturday 
night was friendly,comfortable,we didnt have to pay rent thus the 3 
dollar door,the standard of music was excellent and we managed to keep it 
going after hours.the fact that we were slightly limited by 21+ thing was 
minor to anyone who made it there.have you ever considered getting a fake 
i.d.?most parties that we do ,including s.p.a.z. on wednesdays will have 
our own door staff.we will usually let anyone in as long as they show us 
any piece of paper that resembles an i.d. and we rarely check the actual 
dates.this is sometimes risky and when we feel it`s not safe,we become 
more careful,but 90% of the time we can operate that way.it's against the 
law,but so what.we want to have a party and we want everyone to come so 
we'll take the chance.on your end ,you could help us by getting a fake 
i.d. and reducing the risk.in the meantime ,we're working on getting a 
legal license to make s.p.a.z. an 18+ event,but this will take time and 
money,and we're currently making about $15 each a night.we'd appreciate 
any information about getting an all ages permit!!

planet 6 sound 




From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 16:41:51 1994
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From: robertj308@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
Message-Id: <9404121939.tn688406@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 19:39:23 EDT
Subject: Rav-O-Rama or Sticky Wicked (long)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Rave-o-RAma-Or Sticky Wicked,

I wrote last week about going to Basics, Jazid Up, Motion, Come/Unity...I was
on a  regular Rave-o-rama vacation for the Easter bunny this
year....Outfitted with my SFrave guide I stuttered off, "down the rabbit
hole,"  to parties that I can't attend during the week  while living in
Monterey. 

Well, I ended up at Wicked and (at the End Up on Sunday), and met, and talked
to more people. than ever before.  Wish I had know about Light-n-Up. The
guide said, "look for details." 

It  is probably my sixth Wicked party.  I had my fears about going to the
King Street garage, a return to "Summer and Smoke." But, it wasn't so bad.
Someone said the ventilation had been improved?  True?.  The sound has
sounded better there, but the spinning hasn't.

Three of my former students from Monterey were at the party. They came up and
couldn't believe I was there!! !Now they're twenty-five, living in the City,
and ravin'  It was bound to happen. I told them my friends of friends story
who took me to my first rave. We ended up dancing all night, and I stayed
over at one of their places. Now I've got another place to stay!!

I had more people ask me how old I was (42) and were really excited I was
there.  Some people get excited because they imagine, or  want their parents
to be there. They've imagined it before, and when they see me dancin, they
know at least, it's possible. Especially since I'm having a great time. The
smil-E look doesn't hurt either.

My other friends from the city showed up at 5:00am, and I saw two people from
Monterey there.  The world is definately getting smaller. I've danced or
practiced martial arts all week, so I'm really starting to get my rave legs.
I'll be trancin and dancin soon.

My house is for sale in Monterey. I plan to move to Santa Cruz, then rent a
room in the City for the summer. If you see a tall, old guy getting younger
by the moment, say hello. 

I'm still going to put on a Big Sur renegade. I promise you it will be a
magic party, at a magic spot. The dj's I've talked to already are into
it!!!I've gotten good responses back from the sound guys too!!!

I'm sorry I didn't meet Sean at Wicked, I really thought I would. Give it
another try Sean, and I'll see you down the road..........

.robertj-...............................Monterey Rave Posse....aka,
roadmaster, motorhead.......Thanks SF.

"only the shallow know themselves" 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 robertj308@aol.com                                                          
           
              or                                                ............
.rojohns@eis.calstate.edu

From bbehlen  Tue Apr 12 16:54:05 1994
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From: bbehlen@techno.Stanford.EDU (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 16:53:53 PDT
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: sfraves
Subject: fwd'd mail
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

a few more bounces - watch those headers (sometimes when you do a "r", it'll
send it to "sfraves-owner" instead of sfraves - this is usually so that
only I see the bounces to the list (there are *tons*) but sometimes mail
programs get confused...)

--- Forwarded mail from sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>From brian@indigo.nrccso.com  Thu Apr  7 16:24:43 1994
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 17:24:47 -0600
From: brian@indigo.nrccso.com (Brian Barnhart)
Message-Id: <9404072324.AA14138@indigo.nrccso.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Psych Annals - READ


hey folks ...

been awhile, but i'm not completely out-of-touch.
Here's some interesting reading
{beware of PROPAGANDA}


Psychiatric Annals

March 1994.  vol.24, no.3

Editorial : Stimulants, Hallucinagens, and the Generation Gap

The Epidemiology, Attitudes, and Pharmacology 
  of LSD Use in the 1990s

MDMA: Its History and Pharmocology

LSD and Ecstasy: Pharmacology, Phenomenology and Treatment

Inward the Mind's I: Description, Diagnosis and Treatment of
  Delayed LSD Hallucinations

Serotonin andthe Action of LSD in the Brain

The Role of the Laboratory in the Diagnosis of 
  LSD and Ecstasy Psychosis

LSD: History and Toxicity

The New Psychedelic Culture: LSD, Ecstasy, 
  "Rave" Parties and the Grateful Dead



bye for now,
brian

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From gelal@well.sf.ca.us  Sat Apr  9 05:49:45 1994
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 05:49:43 -0700
From: Bill Knight <gelal@well.sf.ca.us>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Smartdrinks

On Saturday-23 I have to work a Smart Bar for an event that evening and I
was kind of wondering if anyone had some good advice as far as recipes go.
I'd really appreciate it!! :)  Thanx...
Hypnotically Yours,
Gelal
<<<<<gelal@well.sf.ca.us>>>>>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From lrc@netcom.com  Sun Apr 10 16:00:26 1994
From: lrc@netcom.com (Henry O. Farad)
Subject: Looking for tunes
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 16:01:32 -0700 (PDT)

I'm going to be having my annual party in about a month, (may 14th)
and would really groove on having good dance music happening
(like at the resort new years eve party).  What sort of incantation
and such would be involved in getting someone to spin some tunes?

Since I do have neighbors within earshot, the dancing would 
have to be in the afternoon/early evening but since I live in 
the redwoods it should still be pretty cool.

Due to technical problems, my ability to read sf-raves is
intermittant at best (until I get the new OS up on red4est),
so please send any replies to me at my netcom account.

Also, does anybody know anything about the King Raffi gigs 
that are starting up at the Catalyst in satan cruz next wednesday?

      Larry
-- 
-UUU-v^v^-||- Henry O. Farad / Larry Colen      lrc@netcom.COM
H:408-335-7505  W:408-774-2215                  lrc@red4est.felton.ca.us


----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From jaggedge@well.sf.ca.us Mon Apr 11 10:52:29 1994
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 10:52:26 -0700
From: Kerry Jaggers <jaggedge@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404111752.KAA28420@well.sf.ca.us>
To: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Ten15 update

I think I have some good news for y'all!  There was much discussion 
recently regarding Ten15's problems with being open for after-hours  
i.e., past 3:30am).

This week Ira succeeded in persuading the Court that there's no reason we 
should be singled out (as we have been for the past several months).  So 
starting this week, the club is once again capable of throwing 
all-nighters. (Yeah! ;-} ! etc)

The staff has also been working to try to help improve our ability to 
give y'all a more copacetic environment, and yes, even Ira is coming 
around.  If you've been discouraged with us recently, I suggest giving the 
club another chance.  Swedish DJ Henrik (hope I spelt it right) has been 
truly amazing on the last two Fridays, providing me (the Lighting operator) 
with two of the most hypnotic "trips" I've ever taken without chemical 
inspiration! 

Hope to party with you soon!...Come by the booth and say hi!   

Kerry
   

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From BUEHRING@sonoma.edu Tue Apr 12 04:40:19 1994
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 4:40:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: BUEHRING@sonoma.edu
To: SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <940412044016.21c0aaf3@sonoma.edu>
Subject: RE: VIVID
Status: OR


>Hi folks, just a quick report on VIVID...it was a break-in (my first
>break-in, and my first SC party) in an abandoned warehouse in SC, near
>some offices and a gym so it went from about 1 to 6 am, but oh, how it
>_went_!  This party reminded me of when I first started going to raves -
>the crowd seemed relatively young (-21) and their energy, friendliness,
>and high-spiritedness translated into a whopping Vibe - I haven't heard
>that many whoops, screams, and cheers for a long time :)  About 150 

Thanks, Scottie, for the kind words.  We were stoked that you and the
MESS crew made it down and joined us (+ you spun a groovin set :).


>Anyway, things ended around 6:30, and we headed back north very pleasantly
>surprised and satisfied.  Too bad throwing parties up here isn't as easy!

Throwing the party was far from easy!  About a week before the date, 
we lost our original location "in the hills."  Thus began a mad, daily
search for another location.  Legally obtaining a warehouse with less
than a week's time is next to impossible, so we decided to go with
an easy, outdoor location (in the Bonny Dune area).  But low and
behold on Friday the rain came pouring down.  Actually, we had a last-
resort location to fall back on, but late Friday afternoon, we recieved
word that it could not be used either.  The party was nearly called off.
But that evening we found a beautiful warehouse and it's doors were 
open!

Unfortunately, it was right next to a health club that closed at midnight
so we couldn't start setting up until then, and had to cut down
the set up to a bare minium.  Piecing together a sound system in a dark
warehouse, with little time, and with a hundred or so impatient people
running about is very stressful.  At this point, things seemed *very*
sketchy and chaotic.  But as soon as the first beat came on things got
moving.

The crowd did indeed have a pretty good vibe.  It was mostly a 
younger bunch but also with some mix to it.  The dance floor stayed
full all night with blasts of energy here and there.  There were no
problems, everyone was pretty mellow! 

We scrambled out of there at about 6:30 (before people started 
showing up at the health club).  Everyone who was left helped clean
up and the place was left like we were never there.

I am stoked that we pulled it off!:)


-James from Santa Cruz


ps. We were able to donate 3 gigantic bags of canned food to the homeless 
plus a cash contribution to The Pajaro Mission (feel free to write me for
details).  Thanks to all who attended!  

pss.  Also a thanks to Ethan (raging acid set) and Bryce who 
came down and helped us out:)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 17:17:33 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 20:17:16 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404130017.AA15730@pilot.njin.net>
To: robertj308@aol.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Rav-O-Rama or Sticky Wicked (long)
In-Reply-To: <9404121939.tn688406@aol.com>
References: <9404121939.tn688406@aol.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Yeah I'm gonna give it another try, and I'll probably have a good
time. A couple things I'll do different are:

1. Go there with friends.
2. Be in a state of mind where I don't mind a massive, aggressive
   crowd, however that may be accomplished.
3. Try harder to meet people.

Hope to meet you Robert!

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 18:00:16 1994
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--- Forwarded mail from JEFFRED@CLEMSON.CLEMSON.EDU

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Date:    Tue, 12 Apr 94 00:57 EDT
To: sfraves@SODA.BERKELEY.EDU
From: JEFFRED@CLEMSON.CLEMSON.EDU
Subject: WHACKED..................
Status: OR

hey all u nice bay people.............................
i really x100g miss the scene out there in sf.i am really
home sick...i want to know what is goin on out there. i
have been gone for about 5 months..this is the first time
i have thought about using email until i met my teknoshaman
friend todd here is sc.......(he is letting me use his
account to send ya'll this message...how is the scene these days.
has it died down or still peaking. i saw scott hardkiss about
four weeks ago he blew up and said he really liked the scene
in charlotte north carolina...it is really kewl out here even
though it is small...the vibe is really familish and good..
they get djs from all over the usa. on may 14 the hardkiss
brothers are comin back to charlotte. on may 8th i am going
to essence in nyc, ,,,,that micro is throwing..he's from
caffine is long island.the last one i heard was really good.
garth and tomas was there,,,i heard they might be there again.
if so i am deffinently there.if anyone wants to respond to
this todd will print me out a hardcopy and give it to me
since i dont have access and send some flyers if you could oh
and i really need some new music...i miss garth and dj spun
positive vibes out2ya......chris
 - * -       - * -              1=left eye
  - -         - -               2=right eye
 - 1  -     - 2   _             3=both eyes shut (real time) -todd


--- End of forwarded message from JEFFRED@CLEMSON.CLEMSON.EDU


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 18:41:49 1994
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To: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re:  Wicked, GH, LU, 21+ (long)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>props to jslee for realizing charlotte is the shit! (finally)

Damn g,

Since I do not go out alot unless I got my own gig goin' I don't get much
of a chance to sample everything that everyone raves about, especially new
talent.  But as Buck will tell you, I am and have always been down for new
folx, as well as props to the *original* SF posse (Josh, Toph, Buck, Noel,
James, Brennan, Neon, etc.).  It just takes some time that's all :)  Hell,
better late than never!  Er uh, I had a cold?!?  I uh, had to work late? :)

Pax man & get your butt down to Good House will ya? (tell Buck to drop by
and support the boys!),
John


=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 18:41:50 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Good Housekeeping...FREE & CLEAR
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

You know I have always wanted to do this for quite a while...

This weekend GOOD HOUSEKEEPING will be a FREE party!
Yeah, there will still be kickin tunes and grub @ reasonable rates, but
there wil be no cover all day!

So stop by, bring your ID (it is 21+), a good vibe, and an empty stomach
(we make $0 on the food).  Get some serious Chi style from Charlotte, get
that smooth groove from Josh, and let Harry Who take you to the sunday funK
zone.

In da back we have Swing Kid, Alfie, James, and a very special guest going
on quite hard in the back (only for the seriously tranced!).  It will be a
special day, and we want to share it with you.  So if you have a chance,
stop by and say hi!

1190 Folsom St (@8th & Folsom [Cat's Grill & Alley Club).

It's ON!,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 18:43:35 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Good Housekeeping...FREE & CLEAR
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

You know I have always wanted to do this for quite a while...

This weekend GOOD HOUSEKEEPING will be a FREE party!
Yeah, there will still be kickin tunes and grub @ reasonable rates, but
there wil be no cover all day!

So stop by, bring your ID (it is 21+), a good vibe, and an empty stomach
(we make $0 on the food).  Get some serious Chi style from Charlotte, get
that smooth groove from Josh, and let Harry Who take you to the sunday funK
zone.

In da back we have Swing Kid, Alfie, James, and a very special guest going
on quite hard in the back (only for the seriously tranced!).  It will be a
special day, and we want to share it with you.  So if you have a chance,
stop by and say hi!

1190 Folsom St (@8th & Folsom ()).

It's ON!,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 19:23:29 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 19:24:33 -0700
From: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
Message-Id: <199404130224.TAA29666@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: need a job?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Company:	Sonic Solutions
Location:	San Rafael, CA
		20 min North of San Francisco
 
Position:	Network Test Engineer, Customer Support
 
Skills:	Unix networking and system administration
		Testing strategies
		NFS, TCP/IP, Appletalk
		Macintosh 
		Excellent communications skills
 
Responsibilities:	Benchmark Sonic Solutions MediaNet and other network
			related products.
 
			Designing and running tests and benchmarks.
 
			Administration of bug testing.
 
			Customer support for customers and dealers.
 
			Pre-sales technical support.
 
Sonic Solutions manufactures professional digital audio editing workstations
 for sound for picture, mastering, editing, and sound restoration. Recently 
added are network products for high bandwidth
Macintosh networking. Sonic is a rapidly growing company and is looking
for a highly organized and articulate person to fill this position.
 
Please email an 80x24 ascii resume and cover letter to 
soniccare@sonic.com or mail to:
 
Personnel Department
Sonic Solutions
1891 East Francisco Blvd.
San Rafael, CA 94903

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 21:08:53 1994
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From: Courtney Love-Cobain  <payn@scf.usc.edu>
Message-Id: <199404130408.VAA04860@aludra.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 21:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
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Forwarded message:
From payn Tue Apr 12 21:06:40 1994
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
To: susie@sutro.sfsu.edu (Susan R. Kameny)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 21:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404120130.C5842-0100000@sutro> from "Susan R. Kameny" at Apr 12, 94 01:24:00 am
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I posted the Li'l Red Raver fairy tale to the alt.gothic newsgroup to see
the reactions (along with the heading "In case you're wondering, here's 
how goths figure in the imagination of the ravers").

Here are the reactions:

---
No, I think this is the image goths should be promoting of themselves.
Until that Big Bad Gothic Girl "got down", she was...interesting me...

Caoi'mhi'n.
---
Oh, I agree. I can actually go to raves and enjoy them, but I find goths
much more interesting. I keep picturing the BBGG dancing to Temple of
Love or some other such song that so offends the Ravers (they hate
that line about "Life is short and love is always over in the morning"
for some reason...) and I just want to end the story there... Still,
it's kinda interesting to imagine what the BBGG looked like when she
got down. Did she still wlk around the dance floor, waving her veil
around, raising her arms to the sky, etc., trying to fit it all into
the beat of the new Orb song? I wish I could imagine that.... Maybe
some more smart drinks and a little X will do he trick.
---
Ich!  I don't know about you folks, but it sure scared me.  Just
think...  If Goths could be converted to ravers!  The Horror!  Sure sent
a shiver down my spine (I liked that part of it though).  I can see it
now... Goth-Ravers: "hey little boy want a lolly?  It's laced with
strychnine!  Yummy yum yum!"
Ha Ha HA!
---
[rave horror story deleted]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Back, back foul fiend, or be impaled on the blood blackened blade of
my sword-cane.

Perhaps we should give it 0.5 of a goth point for not having a happy ending ?
---

So there you go.


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 21:47:22 1994
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 21:38:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: XDZebra dead?
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Just curious,

What ever happened to those XDZebra reviews that were posted by 
Pete Ashdown periodically on sfraves?

/////////{{{{{{{{{((((((((([[[[[[[[[[232]]]]]]]]))))))))))}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\
Seth

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 12 22:24:09 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404130408.VAA04860@aludra.usc.edu> (message from Courtney Love-Cobain on Tue, 12 Apr 1994 21:08:38 -0700 (PDT))
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 22:21:20 PDT
From: jpp@markv.com
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  Well, I don't know.  I guess I have this real personal reaction, but
I want to share it with you.  I hope you don't mind.

  Down here in LA at _Velvet_, I personally danced to gothic
(_Temple_of_Love_ by Sisters of Mercy), Techo ("Its time to start
running" by _The_Mesiah_ (?)), and even some housey beats (*mumble* by
_Dee_Lites_) this very weekend.  There were both Black&Whites
(gothics) and Smile&Stripes (housers) there in abundance.  We all
grooved together in one big family -- not all of us happy -- it was a
_real_ family.  Some of us were down right spoo-oo-oo-ooky.  But I
respect that, I have some understanding of that headspace.

  After all, *I* am one of those (ex?)goth's the goth's are scared
of.  In 1982 (when it still was 'Death Rock') I was danceing to
Bauhaus et al. at _Fetish_ on Melrose blvd., and in 1992 I was
danceing to Moby et al. at _Circa_92_ in the Shrine Auditorium.  These
days I am even more mushy and warm.  I house.  But it happens: one day
you discover that there really is happyness in the world, and some of
it can be yours.  And you begin.

  If this house nation is really gonna be inclusive, it has to include
even those who would exclude us.  Like the Big Bad Goth Girl.  That is
one reason this (radical?) fairytail is so right -- unlike the Big Bad
Wolf who is mercylessly axed to death, the Big Bad Goth Girl just
grows into another member of the house family.  All the ravers accept
her into their party.

  It is harder in real life.  It is hard to transform your self from
goth to house.  It is hard to accept goth (or any other "not-with-it
folks") into your house.  But still we try, grow and learn, all ways
trying to honor, love, and respect others, to live in peace, and of
course, dance our asses right off!

from deep within the house nation, with love,

j'
--
		   O I am Jay Prime Positive jpp@markv.com
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Your feedback is welcome directly or via my symbol JPP on hex@sea.east.sun.com

Resist the Clipper Chip, write "I oppose Clipper" to Clipper.petition@cpsr.org

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 01:40:45 1994
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From: Courtney Love-Cobain  <payn@scf.usc.edu>
Message-Id: <199404130840.BAA14260@aludra.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 01:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To:  <9404122221.aa23220@hermix.markv.com> from "jpp@markv.com" at Apr 12, 94 10:21:20 pm
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Well, to let you in on a big secret, goths actually _do_ smile and have
a good time and feel such things as happiness. They even joke amongst
themselves (hence the reference to "goth points" in the responses....)
What "scared" them about the story was just the fact that they tend to
be very introspective people and tend to find other such people more
interesting than loudly-dressed, loud people like Ravers. Most goths
would happily join the house nation as long as people will leave them
alone every once in a while so they can crank up the Faith and Disease
and read. Oh, and as long as they don't have to go outside in
daylight, of course....


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 07:29:32 1994
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From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea of Sin)
Message-Id: <9404131432.AA16342@noc.usfca.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: an interview
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


This morning I realised that in one of my classes, we will be interviewing
a SF Police Sgt. today. *DUH* Stoopid me completely lost track of time and
realised I should have asked if any of you wanted me to ask this guy anything.
He is required to answer questions since this is a reporting class. 

And then I have to write an interesting feature article on him based on 
the interview in class. :P


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 07:47:57 1994
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From: "Michael Standish" <standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com>
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:48:11 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Apr 12,  9:08pm, Courtney Love-Cobain wrote:
>
> I posted the Li'l Red Raver fairy tale to the alt.gothic newsgroup to see
> the reactions (along with the heading "In case you're wondering, here's
> how goths figure in the imagination of the ravers").

Actualy I don't think of them as evil just hopelessly unfashionable
frumps who haven't noticed that the '80s are over.

> Here are the reactions:
> ---
> Ich!  I don't know about you folks, but it sure scared me.  Just
> think...  If Goths could be converted to ravers!  The Horror!

Well Just call me too fucking trendy but I used to be a goth but
then fashion changed so I jumped on the rave train. (thinly veiled
goth reference warning)


Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S




From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 07:58:39 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:58:24 -0700
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To: Courtney Love-Cobain  <payn@chaph.usc.edu>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


I don't know how people can make such horrid generalizations based
on what type of dance music subculture you happen to follow.

"Goths are more introspective."  "Ravers are loud."

This is such bull malarky.  I know loud and obnoxious goths (well,
except when they are on the dance floor) and I know shy ravers 
(well, except when they are on the dance floor).  My point is that
someone's dance floor behaviour may not necessiarly correspond to
anything, it's just how they are reacting to their surroudings and
the music.

Maybe it's more a case of that old lemmingism-I-have-to-fit-in.  Maybe
some people who like goth music etc behave the way the do so they can
fit in.  Ditto for some people who like house/techno.  I've found that
most of all people just want a place in some sort of society that they
can belong in, so a goth would wear black and a crucifix and a raver
would wear orange and a glowstick but it's really all the same thing
now isn't it?

I thought the story was really cute . . . but then I'm neither a goth
or a raver.  Don't take yourselves so seriously folks.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 08:02:57 1994
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From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea of Sin)
Message-Id: <9404131505.AA16672@noc.usfca.edu>
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
To: jpp@markv.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Discoravers)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:05:06 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To:  <9404122221.aa23220@hermix.markv.com> from "jpp@markv.com" at Apr 12, 94 10:21:20 pm
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Previously, jpp@markv.com said:

>   It is harder in real life.  It is hard to transform your self from
> goth to house.  It is hard to accept goth (or any other "not-with-it
> folks") into your house.  But still we try, grow and learn, all ways
> trying to honor, love, and respect others, to live in peace, and of
> course, dance our asses right off!

The transition is easier if  you like industrial/goth -> hard trance/acid.
I think my new goal is to find records to best mix into industrial ->hard 
trance. I went to The House of Usher and those people cannot mix. (So I 
am picky about mixing these days, but I understand they try). The point 
that the transition of goth to house is difficult, because of the style 
of the beats - happy, hip-hoppy, wailing diva, disco groove. 

All of this shouldn't matter since music in all cultures have the same 
effect on people - it brings them together. Some might eventually 
crossover into a completely genre of music and maintain a balance between 
the two. Not to flame you, but it's not "your house," it can be anyone's,
as long as people are open minded to new things and people. It would be 
nice if people didn't have to label others - goth, raver, hippie, geek, etc.
It associates the idea of those characteristics portrayed by the media. 
However I am glad the people on this list see beyond all of that hype. 




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sea Of Sin <kawakami@usfca.edu>		|"I've done ... questionable things. 
	   <seaofsin@well.sf.ca.us>     | Nothing the God of biomechanics 
  	   <and so on....>		| wouldn't let you into heaven for."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 08:14:00 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:13:25 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea of Sin), jpp@markv.com,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Discoravers)
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Cindy makes a comment about how the transistion musically from goth
to house is difficult because of the styles.

Well, there are other forms of music played at raves . . . the dark
trancey acid that I like seems to be a good place to start.  When
I was at the Eighth House two weeks ago playing things like Seefeel's
"Plainsong" and Bio-Dreams' "White Sands" there were people who dressed
like the goth stereotype and people who dress like the raver stereotype
both getting deep into the trance.

Someone on alt.rave has already suggested that deep trance (in the techno
vein they meant) could be a good musical bridge between the two subcultures.

I was talking to someone at a party last Friday who was telling me that
trance does get played at traditionally goth clubs and they also said
that the Eighth house was promoted to the goth, rave, and art
communities.  If the sounds system had been better it would have gone
over a lot better, but you've all heard that line on this before.

(I can't back up because of my editor but yes Cindy, I know you know
there are other forms of music, I was being rehtorical.  And, since
I'm adding disclaimers and stuff, I do fully understand that "Courtney
Love-Cobain's" posts were humorous, I actually agree with where he/shie
(I mean she) is coming from, I was just in general criticizing those
people who actually BELIEVE those stereotypes and try to keep 
propagating them by being offended by the whole thing.)

See you all later,

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 09:27:48 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:31:43 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: vivid
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Just wanted to add my voice to those congratulating vivid for pulling off
not only a *sucessfull* benefit (unheard of), but also throwing a great
party.  Nice job under tough circumstances. 

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 10:07:51 1994
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   i would also like to thank everybody who was involved with vivid.  i had a 
great time there.  i hope there will be more events like that one in the
near future (especially in santa cruz)...  =)

matt
calvin@cats.ucsc.edu

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 10:10:25 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Discoravers)
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Yeah, I wanna know where I can hear some really dark trancey stuff or
better yet, some really dark techno. I heard some once at my first
event about a year ago, and never have since.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 10:45:26 1994
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From: Courtney Love-Cobain  <payn@scf.usc.edu>
Message-Id: <199404131745.KAA26955@aludra.usc.edu>
Subject: gothrave
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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So says laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa):
> I don't know how people can make such horrid generalizations based
> on what type of dance music subculture you happen to follow.
>
> "Goths are more introspective."  "Ravers are loud."
>
> This is such bull malarky.  I know loud and obnoxious goths (well,
> except when they are on the dance floor) and I know shy ravers
> (well, except when they are on the dance floor).  My point is that
> omeone's dance floor behaviour may not necessiarly correspond to
> anything, it's just how they are reacting to their surroudings and
> the music.

When I first read this last night, I responded (privately, I think) that 
my letter was meant as a joke, and left it at that (although I suspect
that she recognized that I was joking and meant something else that I
missed, it being late on a boring night and all). Then I went to sleep, 
and suddenly I awakened in the middle of the night (aka 9:30am) and 
realized that I actually wanted to answer her seriously. Don't ask why.

There really is more to being a goth than just clothes and music. In fact, 
the clothes and the music really aren't nearly as important as the 
mindset. By definition, a goth is _gothic_, which means that she (I use 
the word "she" here as the generic pronoun just to balance out all the 
times "he" is used the same way) has romantic and introspective tendencies, 
that she can recognize the beauty in the dark and gloomy. Naturally, 
there are other tendencies that go along with this--the pretentiousness 
(although every goth I know recognizes that she's being pretentious and 
enjoys it all the more because it's such a conscious, maybe even 
self-conscious, form of pretention), the aristocratic mindset, the quiet 
self-absorption, and so forth.

Of course the truth is, everyone has this side, and the goths may not be 
on average any more gloomy or introspective than anyone else. The 
difference is, this is the side of themselves that they enjoy expressing, 
and therefore choose to express.

Similarly, there's more to being a raver than the clothes and the music. 
Everyone at some point in her life feels infectiously happy, feels like 
she can change th world through the sheer force of her joy. This is a 
wonderful feeling. The central difference between ravers and other people 
is that this is the side that ravers enjoy expressing, and therefore 
choose to express. Sure, the clothes are a fashion statement, and they 
look cool, but when it comes down to it, the real reason these clothes 
are raver clothes in the first place is that they're fun and expressive.

Of course these two expressions are't necessarily contradictory (at 
least I hope not--I personally can and do fit in somewhat with either 
group, so either they fit together pretty well or I'm just a 
schizophrenic). But despite the similarities between the raver and goth 
subcultures, the differences are more fundamental. All the more reason, 
of course, to seek unity. To use Marx's (no, not Gary Marx of the Sisters 
of Mercy, don't be silly) ideas in a way which would probably annoy him, 
if the gleefully post-borgeous ravers are the antithesis of the 
artistocratic goths, there has to be a synthesis. And it ought to be fun 
getting there....

And all this explains why, as I mentioned earlier, goths can and do smile.


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 11:00:27 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 13:57:54 EDT
Subject: "Smokin'" Ernie Munson-Wed.-SJ
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Ernie Munson will be a "MOTION" in San Jose-Tonight-Wed.
at 400 S. 1st Street--

Forest and I (robertj) are going to come up from Monterey
tonight--Hope to see some of you there!! We're going to be recording ernie's
set tonight. In the past few weeks, the music at Motion has been incredible;
Jeno, Tony, Garth, and now, Ernie Munson. See Ya!

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 11:24:15 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 11:24:00 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: if you ever go East
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I often get requests from people for rave info for the east coast.
I'm always happy to help, but please give me as much lead time as
possible so I can track down the ne-raves calendar.  I don't always
save it every week since I don't get to go to NYC very often now that I
live out here in SF.

Generally, I get the calendar sometime during the day on Wednesday.

If you have enough lead time before your trip you can also hop on the
ne-raves calendar list briefly before you go.  That way you'll
get the calendar automatically dumped in your mailbox on Wednesdays.

To sub to it, send a message to majordomo@techno.stanford.edu and put

        subs*ribe ne-raves-cal

in the body of the message (but use a c instead of the * in my example).

Otherwise, you can just drop me a line and I'll send you the calendar as soon
as I get it myself, but please be patient as it only comes out once a week.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 12:19:11 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 12:18:54 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: robertj308@aol.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: robertj308@aol.com's message of Wed, 13 Apr 94 13:57:54 EDT <9404131357.tn716204@aol.com>
Subject: "Smokin'" Ernie Munson-Wed.-SJ
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


i'm planning on being there too.  look for a big bald/blonde guy,
probably in shorts and black (or brightly colored or Unity) shirt.  i
haven't been out in a while and am looking forward to seeing y'all
there!

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 12:36:23 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 12:39:59 -0800
To: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Discoravers)
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: the.dark.side
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  1:09 PM 4/13/94 -0400, Sean Casey wrote:

>Yeah, I wanna know where I can hear some really dark trancey stuff or
>better yet, some really dark techno. I heard some once at my first
>event about a year ago, and never have since.
>
>Sean

try *close encounters* this saturday, myself, alex, jonah, julio and others
will be rollin the deep techno trance......  

!-!

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 14:13:10 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 14:10:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "D. Ronan Hallowell" <holo@netcom.com>
Subject: Motion In S.J.
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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I will most likely be going to Motion tonite. I'll be driving , if anyone 
(from SF) wants  to carpool give me a call @415-558-8694.

Ronan


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 15:13:24 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 11:19:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
Subject: rumoured Free Basics this Friday
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Hello everyone--

I have heard that there is a very good possibility there is  a free
Basics going on this Friday.  Last time I heard from Martin, he wanted to
throw a free party to make up for New Year's...

So there you go.  I will post more when more is provided...

mike

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 15:19:25 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 15:18:30 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: motion??? is it on?
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


from the guide:
Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X). 21+.  408.236.3787

calling this number gives a short and cryptic message which doesn't
say anything about Motion --- talks about some other event, seemingly.

is this number wrong?

i can only assume from the post that RobertJ made that it's going on,
but decided to give a quick call anyway, and now i'm nervous :-)

does anyone know the definitive deal?
Bob

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 15:22:33 1994
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Message-Id: <9404132045.AA12265@vestek.com>
Subject: Re: XDZebra dead?
To: SFRaves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 13:45:39 PDT
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404122156.B14960-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>; from "Seth Joshua Horvitz" at Apr 12, 94 9:38 pm
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-> 
-> 
-> Just curious,
-> 
-> What ever happened to those XDZebra reviews that were posted by 
-> Pete Ashdown periodically on sfraves?
-> 
-> /////////{{{{{{{{{((((((((([[[[[[[[[[232]]]]]]]]))))))))))}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\
-> Seth
Also, what ever happened to Pete Ashdown?  That last time I heard about him, he was
selling techno cds on the Internet rec.music.marketplace newsgroup. 


don 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 15:39:41 1994
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From: robertj308@aol.com
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Message-Id: <9404131836.tn725971@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 18:36:21 EDT
Subject: Motion-ON for Wed.
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hey Sfraves,

I just called Rick Preston to confirm MOTION and Ernie Munson,
(at 3:30pm) Motion is definately on, the number listed in Rave Guide is NO
longer valid. No new number yet. robertj

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 16:17:08 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 15:43:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: JMRTNKO DSGN ETC SFCA <martinko@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: XDZebra dead?
To: Don Labutay <don@vestek.com>
Cc: SFRaves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404132045.AA12265@vestek.com>
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On Wed, 13 Apr 1994, Don Labutay wrote:

> -> What ever happened to those XDZebra reviews that were posted by 
> -> Pete Ashdown periodically on sfraves?
> -> 
> Also, what ever happened to Pete Ashdown?  That last time I heard about him, he was
> selling techno cds on the Internet rec.music.marketplace newsgroup. 
> 
Well, actually Pete moved to New York and is currently in a common-law 
marriage with Lydia Lunch who both collaborate with the Orb (Alex, 
Thrash, Frank Sinatra, Stan Kenton and 2 of the Shirelles) part-time. 
Look for his (quite popular) pen-name -RICH^H^HARD JAMES /qBL00DY HELL- 
on the new 5LP/4cd Orb double-gatefold release "Big Fluffy Clouds live 
remixed remixes 94." I think Pete plays the accordion on track 32. I don't 
have the track name though as they are only identified by scratch-n-sniff 
panels in the booklet. I think it smells like a burnt chocolate used gym 
sneaker, but then again so does tracks 48, 2, 13, 22, 14, and 50 (Bingo!)

As for XDZebra, a certain animal rights group felt the name was a slight 
to certain species and thus after a drawn out legal battle, the name was 
changed to XDAnimalswithstripesofblackandwhite to be more correct. You 
can find it in the XDFTP site FTP12/klxwty,megafoo:12:3:Pinto in the 
directory :

/top/next-to-top/still-alittle-lower/watchyourhead/almost-there/reviews 

Oh, I forgot to mention this is only accesible to users on the FishNET 
network connecting both machines in Antarctica. All files are compressed 
with Mu-zip (pronounced myoo-zeep') so don't forget to pick up the 
shareware decompressor De-load on your way out. Of course, the reviews 
mainly cover the growing number of artists composing with samples from 
Electronic greeting cards, but they're still well written (8/10).

But seriously, he was just on idm today (wasn't he?) I haven't tried 
digging up any XDZebra's lately, but Pete seems to post quite a bit, so 
he's definitely around. In fact by the time I get around to finishing 
this message, he will have probably answered your question. Jeez. I gotta 
get out of the house more...

Just 400IUs of JMRTNKO supplies you with 1333% of the US RDA!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bandwidth Hogging via the kind courtesy of DesignLink FCBBS (1) 510 933 96 76
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  J M R T N K O  D S G N  E T C  S F C A  |  t h e  t h i r s t y  f i s h .
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From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 16:24:13 1994
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From: DAVID LEE FOUST <dhouse@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Free BASICS this Friday
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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I talked to Martin myself on Saturday at Wicked. He handed me a basics 
flyer and then told me it was free. I told him I would be there. Straight 
from Martin. You know the number. C-ya Friday night.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 16:28:39 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 16:27:44 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!! (fwd)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

[dcraves list removed...]

At  1:24 AM 4/12/94 -0700, susie wrote:
>                     Little Red Raver Girl
>                            by
>                      Noah "juggler" Lee
>              (respect to the original of course)

Call me stoopid;  Call me clueless;  But, who are these Goth Girls???
and what is the music they listen to???

- Steve (hopelessly out of date :)



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 16:42:59 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 16:41:33 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: dhouse@mercury.sfsu.edu
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: DAVID LEE FOUST's message of Wed, 13 Apr 1994 16:19:22 -0700 (PDT) <Pine.3.89.9404131650.A5678-0100000@mercury>
Subject: Free BASICS this Friday
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


ahem.  if you've got the number, might be nice to post it.  i know
it'll save me about 23 minutes of digging around in the old flyer
drawer...


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 16:51:09 1994
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From: Franklin Shotwell <shotwell@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Reply-To: Franklin Shotwell <shotwell@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: XDZebra dead?
To: Don Labutay <don@vestek.com>
Cc: SFRaves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Wed, 13 Apr 1994, Don Labutay wrote:

> -> What ever happened to those XDZebra reviews that were posted by 
> -> Pete Ashdown periodically on sfraves?
> -> Seth

	He posted a little review of the new Biosphere album on the nm-list,
but I haven't seen an XDZ in ages.  

> Also, what ever happened to Pete Ashdown?  That last time I heard about him, he was
> selling techno cds on the Internet rec.music.marketplace newsgroup. 
> don 

	I think he posted a review of the Ambience party here, not too long
ago.  Mostly I see him on the nm-list, though.

		...minor...


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 16:51:12 1994
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From: DAVID LEE FOUST <dhouse@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Basics #
To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Here it is 415.905.9629. Just a side note, on the flyer I was handed it 
said "IT'S TIME TO STOP FUCKING AROUND". Sorry if you had to look for 23 
minutes. ;)

Dave Foust

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 17:00:35 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 16:59:19 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: basics info
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


first, i suggest that everyone call 415 905-9629.  martin has a pretty
cool message we should all listen to and think about :-)

thanks to the list for tipping us all off...

Basics Friday
free party with one stipulation
you have to bring a big beautiful smile and
warm friendship and love for everyone around you
tony doran spun (maybe markie) 
finalized DJ lineup and location announced on the day of the event

Bob




From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 17:21:17 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 17:19:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Franklin Shotwell <shotwell@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Earth House Hold
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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	Thanks to those of you who showed up at Earth House on Saturday.
This was my first flyered gig, spinning, and I had a blast!  It was kind 
of bizarre having such glossy flyers for such a low-budget party.  Noah, 
the promoter, grabbed a corner of someone else's print run for cheap.
	So we set up at the Albany landfill spot, around eleven, and 
found out that the power 'switch' (an infernally and unnecessarily 
complex mechanism) on one of the turntables was busted.  As Noah and I 
were pulling out to go get another table, Albany's finest pulls in for a 
bust.  Too bad I didn't have my trading cop cards handy to get some 
autographs.  
	So we moved it across the bay, and got started at 24th & 
Illinois.  Noah was distressed at this point, with the fact that none of 
the dj's were anywhere to be found.  I wasn't.  It just meant I could 
spin a 3 1/2 hour set.  I opened up with the D St. Herbie Hancock Megamix --
a style I must confess I lifted off of John D (thanks for the tip), and 
worked electro breakbeats in and out of the next couple hours of mixing.
	Gary Nurriso showed up around 4:30 and took it off for real.  
He's got a breathtaking progressive house style -- mixed seamlessly, with 
just enough vocals for the crowd, and just enough acid to keep it 
interesting. 
	I was psyched to finally meet John Draper, dancing as furiously 
as ever, and Bryce and Pat out on the street by their car, laying down 
their own chill space, in an Ultraworld manner.  As much as I lurk on the 
list, I still don't know many of you.  Hope to remedy that over the 
course of this upcoming summer o' luv, and I'll fill you in on the next 
Earth House.

		...minor...


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 20:06:43 1994
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To: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu, Dee Discoravers <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <9404131505.AA16672@noc.usfca.edu> (message from Sea of Sin on Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:05:06 -0800 (PST))
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
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> From: Sea of Sin <kawakami@noc.usfca.edu>
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:05:06 -0800 (PST)
> 
> Previously, jpp@markv.com said:
> 
> >   It is harder in real life.  It is hard to transform your self from
> 
> The transition is easier if  you like industrial/goth -> hard trance/acid.

  Actually I was talking about the transformation of my inner
landscape, not preference in music (or clothes, etc.).  I expect
others may have a similarly hard time.  But, I don't know this for a
fact.  I think the music, and fashion transformation is trivial by
comparison.

> Not to flame you, but it's not "your house," it can be anyone's,
> as long as people are open minded to new things and people.

  Not a flame at all!  Exactly my sentiment.  It isn't "my house" or
"The Wicked Posse's house".  But I, or "The Wicked Posse" can act to
either welcome other folks, or drive them away.  When you drive folks
away you are burning down the house, and damping the vibe.  When you
are accepting, open and welcoming, then you are building a house with
those around you, you are energizing the vibe.

> It would be nice if people didn't have to label others - goth,
> raver, hippie, geek, etc.  It associates the idea of those
> characteristics portrayed by the media.

  I agree.  Labels are dangerous to assign to people.  But labels are
nice for a hint about what kind of music to expect at a club.  When I
pay $20 for one thing, and hear another, I can be very disapointed.
BagPipe, Tin Whistle, and Fiddle music is nice...._sometimes_ =).

  And in my many years being a 'death rocker' I certainly encountered
a large variety of people who all claimed the 'death rocker' label.
Homogeneous they were not.  I would never say 'all goths are unhappy'
or that 'all ravers are happy'.  But there is a difference between the
philosophy that seems common to house and that which seems common to
gothic.  At least to me.  My psychology is affected by what I see and
here, and what I choose to see and here is affected by my psychology.
I loved _Temple_of_Love_, and that says something.  Think about it.

> However I am glad the people on this list see beyond all of that hype.

  Me too.

j'

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 20:34:21 1994
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Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
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> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 22:21:20 PDT
> From: jpp@markv.com
> 
> [...]  It is hard to accept goth (or any other "not-with-it
> folks") into your house.  [...]

  Wait... _I_ said that??  I thought I spent entierly too much time
thinking out what I had to say... but I missed that...  Sigh...

  If someone didn't know me well they might think that I felt 'goths'
weren't with-it.  I don't.

  I have met some 'housers' who think 'goths' are not-with-it,
and some 'goths' who think 'housers' are not-with-it.  I think that
this kind of attitude is easy to develop, and hard to avoid.  And
most importantly, I endeavor to avoid this kind of attitude myself.

Respect, when I am aware enough, and apologies when I am not,

j'

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 21:09:34 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 21:09:26 -0700
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404140409.VAA01864@soda.berkeley.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: caliban spins ambient tomorrow
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


	that's right, i will be spinning what i hope to 
	be my first (sort of) of many ambient appearances,
	tomorrow, thursday.  


	here's the scoop:

		the party is called illusion (i think) 
		and is located upstairs at a place called
		'dimensions' in san jose.  the address
		is 364 south market street, downtown,
		between san calros and san salvador 
		streets.

		scheduled dj's for the dance floor are eric
		hill (sj), liquid (journees@netcom) and
		garth.

		the ambient room, where i will be spinning,
		is a cave and i am told it is large.

		the event is 18+ with a full bar.  i do not 
		know the cost yet, but will post when i find
		out.  hope to see you there, say hi to me!




cali


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 21:40:59 1994
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 21:34:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathryn Ankrum <kathank@crl.com>
Subject: Re: rumoured Free Basics this Friday
To: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@scuacc.scu.edu>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Wed, 13 Apr 1994, YOUR FRIEND MIKE wrote:

> I have heard that there is a very good possibility there is  a free
> Basics going on this Friday. 

Thanks for the reminder; for some reason I'd forgotten all about this. 
We got the Basics flyer outside Wicked 
last Sunday am.  The guy handing them out said the party would be free.
The flyer sez:

Basics
Friday April 15th
415-905-9629

Coexistence/Acceptance/Communication
It's time to stop fucking around

____

Enjoy!
Kathryn


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 13 23:38:48 1994
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From: buehring@Sonoma.EDU
To: "sfraves@techno.stanford.edu"%MAILER.dnet@mvax.Sonoma.EDU
Subject: Re: vivid
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


>i would also like to thank everybody who was involved with vivid. i had a 
>great time there. i hope there will be more events like that one in the
>near future (especially in santa cruz)...  =)
>
>matt
>calvin@cats.ucsc.edu

Thanks for your support!
Actually, there will be a sc underground happening this friday
(the 15th).  DJ's will probably be Wool, myself, and other santa
cruz locals.  It will get going at around 1am or so.  For those of
you in the south bay + sc, that don't feel like driving to the 
city, come join us!  Directions will be on the voice mail # late
friday evening (415 292 3289).

I think I'll try and make it to Basics that night too.  Sounds like
that will be a very positive event :)


good day,

James and Andy

      
  

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 06:47:48 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
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Subject: South Bay Lunch Reminder
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 06:48:53 -0700 (PDT)
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 This time I'll be bringing a CD/cassette/AM/FM portable ,
so bring some music media with you . Looking out my window, I see 
blue sky and little fluffy clouds ... see you there! 
				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
today's SFR South Bay Lunch ...

When: Thursday  
Time: 12.00 noon
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
  Northbound: Past San Antonio Road 
  Southbound: Past University Avenue 

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Turn into the first 
  driveway on your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll , behind the round baseball fence.
  Next to the restrooms and ball courts.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!





From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 13:09:53 1994
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Position Paper
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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I will be writing a position paper on the 'rave' scene, specifically
whether the scene enhances or detracts from leisure expression /
participation (creativity, optimism, love, playfullness, curiosity, simple
joyfullness, resilience, explorativeness, eagerness, imagination,
frinedship, sensitivity, trust).  I'm having a really hard time trying to
find references for my paper.  Can anyone tell me of any references that I
could use? 


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 13:14:23 1994
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:13:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kendall Griggs <kgriggs@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: need RIDE to Anything Box/ slowdive
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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I apologize if I completely shift subjects here, but here's one synth 
band with lots of energy that'll make you want to dance your ass off!  
Remember ANYTHING BOX? In 1990, they were radio/club semi-demi-gods with 
such hits as "Living in oblivion", "Jubilation (This Thing Called Life)", 
and "Soul on Fire".  Believe it or not, I have yet to find a 12" lying 
around of "Living in Oblivion."  I have been a fan since 1990's album 
_Peace_.  Now they have released a NEW album in '93 called _Hope_, which 
is fabulous.  Yet, it has virtually been IGNORED by the so-called 
"alternative" radio station, Live 105.  Just because they are on a new 
indie label (from LA) does NOT mean they should be avoided.  They NEED 
support to gain back the status they had while they were on Epic.  Epic 
tried to commercialize them and turn them into a rock band; instead of 
using synth/techno energy.  The vocals are mesmerizing, and their dance 
versions are PUMPED up.  I wish DJ's would play them more.  Check them 
out, it's "worth" it.

For the matter at hand, they are PLAYING down in Santa Monica at:
		Fair City
		2020 Wilshire Blvd.
		Santa Monica, CA

		Date: 4/28/94  (Thursday)
		Time: 7:30.

I NEED a RIDE there, and will be GENEROUS with gas $$$$.  If ANYONE from 
up here is going down there, PLEASE let me know and we'll work something 
out. I am considering other options, so the sooner I know, the better.

ps.  Slowdive kinda induced a trance.  Or I may have inhaled something. 
Rachel was more mesmerizing this time around...they NEED to do "waves" 
through. 

that's my .02


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 13:14:51 1994
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From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
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Subject: Re: Position Paper
To: sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Sun Kim)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:15:54 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404141311.A15969-0100000@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu> from "Sun Kim" at Apr 14, 94 01:09:24 pm
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Sun Kim sez:
> 
> I will be writing a position paper on the 'rave' scene, specifically
> whether the scene enhances or detracts from leisure expression /
> participation (creativity, optimism, love, playfullness, curiosity, simple
> joyfullness, resilience, explorativeness, eagerness, imagination,
> frinedship, sensitivity, trust).  I'm having a really hard time trying to
> find references for my paper.  Can anyone tell me of any references that I
> could use? 
> 

Um, how about going to some parties and asking people if you can quote
them?  Original research shouldn't count against you :-)

-H-


-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
"Here in Singapore, if someone is observed to be acting strangely the police 
can force them to take drug tests.  That could never happen in America."
- Singapore official, in SF Chron     "And you BRAG about this?"  -Me

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 13:36:19 1994
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From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFRaves)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 13:38:31 PDT
Cc: sfraves-calendar@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFR Calendar)
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Another interesting weekend with lots of choices; practically everything
looks intriguing.  The low-budget weekend would be Basics, the Organic
Golden Gate Park party, and Good Housekeeping on Sunday.  But the others
look quite reasonable too...

I've also heard about something tonight at Art Deco (510 Larkin) and
another free party Saturday night, but I don't have details.  If
anyone knows more, post it!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------- UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA ---------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday, April 14th - Pure Space
        jeno, spun & ernie
        375 11th St at Harrison St, 21+  415.267.0640
        [will be weekly]

Thursday, April 14th - Illusion
        DJs Garth  Eric Hill  Liquid
        + Caliban in the ambient room
        18+, 364 S Market St, San Jose.

Friday, April 15th - ZenDada
        Djs Jeno and Taj
        1015 Folsom Basement, $5, 21+.  12am-7am

Friday, April 15th - Basics
        Tony  Doran  Josh & others
        Free, bring a smile :)  415.905.9629

Friday, April 15th - DJs Wool and others in a Santa Cruz underground
        415.292.3289

Saturday, April 16th - Organic party in the Golden Gate Park Bandshell
        Jeno  Graeme  DJ Dan  Digit  Neon Leon
        11am-6pm   415.266.8215   415.267.6129

Saturday, April 16th - House
        Chicago Style - Freddy Bain  Lil' John  Orlando
        SF Style - Tommy Rogers
        415.677.7952

Saturday, April 16th - Close Encounters
        DJ Alex  Jonah  Zero  Ethan  Julio See  & special guests
        $7 before 11pm, $10 after.  415.708.5697  415.560.3275

Saturday, April 16th - Dig!
        an evening of metaphysical jazz stylings and underground funk vibes
        featuring the Broun Fellinis with the African Identity
        and DJs Mark Farina, Charlotte & Dani
        doors at 10, band at 11.  $5, 21+.
        Kennel Club, 648 Divisadero @ Grove, SF.

Sunday, April 17th - San Jose Women's Collective outdoor party
        in the La Raza picnic area in Hellyer Park
        free!

Friday, April 22nd - Earth Day Wicked
        415.512.5713

Saturday, April 23rd - Organic
        Jeno  Tony  Graeme  DJ Dan  Simon  Markie
        18+  415.266.8215   415.267.6129

Saturday, April 23rd - Contact
        DJ Jan Cooley
        9:30p - ? (free before 10:30p)
        2721 Broadway, Sacramento   916.484.5661 

Sunday, April 24th - Afternoon Vibe
        djs Dave Andersen/Tony D./Thomas
        4:00p-11:00p, 2721 Broadway, Sacramento.  916.484.5661

Saturday, April 30th - Anthem of the Sun
        Jeno  Thomas  Simon  Spun  Markie  Carlos  Rick Preston 
         Dutch  Tony  Ernie Munson  Chris Lum  Ghost  
        415-979-3005

Saturday, April 30th - possible Basics
        415.905.9629

Saturday, May 7th/Sunday, May 8th - Beltane Wicked
        415.512.5713

Saturday, May 14th - Fundamental
        Spun  Josh  DJ Dan  Ernie Munson  Rick Preston
        Visuals by Donovan, Pure, Ken Stone
        $10, 18+ w/id.  415.487.4339  415.486.9400

Saturday, May 14th - possible Vision
        415.267.4800

Saturday, May 28th - SFRaves presents - In The Light
        Laura, Markie, and guests
        12-6pm, Golden Gate Park at the Bandshell


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies, in the house/techno/acid jazz/etc vein.  Some
of them may have ended - let me know when that happens...

---------------------------- T h u r s d a y --------------------------------

Your Sisters' House - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-435-7575
Universal Groove - $5. 415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax - Acid Jazz w/Julius Papp (San Jose)
Lift - Digit, EFX, David Harness & guests - 55 Natoma, SF - 415.267.5984
Inspirations - 610 Coleman Ave, San Jose.  9pm-2am, 18+.
        408.236.2102  415.267.6974

------------------------------ F r i d a y ----------------------------------

Corduroy City  - $5 - call for DJs and location - 415.974.9715
Life/Twirl - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
	DJs include Doc Martin, Aaron O, Pete Avila
Deep - Nikki Rivera, Jason Hayes, Lewis. 6th & Harrison (the End-Up)
Raw - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, David Harness & guests - 540 Howard - 415.243.8181
Ooga Booga - 2600 Watt Ave (upstairs @ country club lanes) - 916.484.4006

---------------------------- S a t u r d a y --------------------------------

Dorothy's Tribe - Neon Leon, Rick Preston, Tommy Rogers & guests
	6am-2pm at the EndUp, 401 6th @ Harrison.  $2.  415.979.4515
Funky Buddha - presented by Spundae - 435 Broadway, 9pm til late.
        Head on House DJs: Simon, Henrik, Ernie, Jay-J, Mic, Eric Lacy, Josh.
        House of Funk & Killa Grooves: Bam Bam, Miquel, Melvin J, John Howard
        21+, $8 before midnite.  415.764.2922
Dig! - DJs George and Charlotte. the Kennel Club, Divisadero & Grove.
Contact! - various guest DJs. $5, 18+, 2721 Broadway, Sacramento.  916.484.5661

------------------------------ S u n d a y ----------------------------------

Groove Morning - 6am-3pm, 18+, $5.  Mission Rock, China Basin.  415.905.6441
Sunday School - Tommy Roger, Aaron O, Swing Kid, Smile-E.  6am-midnight.
        free before 2, $2 after.  the EndUp (6th & Harrison).  415.543.7700
Signs of Life - 375 11th @ Harrison (DNA).  $3, 6am-3pm, 21+
Good Housekeeping - presented by Flavor - w/sound technicians Alfie, James,
        Markie, Harry Who & live guests.  7am-4pm, $4, 21+.  
        spuds & stuff @ 9.  1190 Folsom St, SF.   415.928.2710
     [4/17 - Josh, Charlotte, Harry Who, Swing Kid, Alfie, James & no cover!]
Light-n Up - 1015 Folsom, 21+, 9am-5pm.  415.267.7615
Sunset - 2pm-sunset. Free! - 415.985.5264

Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (usually last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Ameba Ambient Tofu BBQ + films - BBQ lit at 5pm; bring BBQables, blankets,
        records.  1732 Haight.
Spundae - various guest DJs - 9pm-5am, 21+, $5 b4 12 - 55 Natoma. 415.974.9389
I-Beam Tea Dance - Neon Leon & others - 5pm-1am. 1748 Haight.
Zuvuya - DJs Josh, Charlotte & guests - 10pm-4am, 1015 Folsom - 415.281.8494

------------------------------ M o n d a y ----------------------------------

Mushroom Jazz (Jazid Up)- acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is,
	Alex, Kevin, Bob Taylor and/or Julius Papp.
	$4, 10pm-4am.  1190 Folsom St, 21+. 415-905-8811
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@ Montgomery) in San Jose.
Pepper - various djs - 510 larkin @ turk  (Art Deco), 21+

----------------------------- T u e s d a y ---------------------------------

Together/Happiness - 21+, $5, 1015 Folsom - 10pm-3:30am - 415-979-8825
Check - rare grooves & house - Alfie, James & guests - 
        the I-Beam, 1748 Haight @ Cole.  21+, $2.  415.668.6006
Body and Soul - Larry Blakes, Berkeley 10pm-2am, acid jazz and funk $3

--------------------------- W e d n e s d a y -------------------------------

Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X). 21+.  
Fixx - Jan Cooley, Phillip, Aaron, Neon Leon.  Cocktails, 9th & Howard.
Stone Groove - acid jazz n' cosmic funk.  presented by Bulletproof.
        $3, 21+, 9pm-2am.  Miss Pearl's, 601 Eddy @ Larkin.  415.255.7168.
        [April DJs - Mark Farina, Gavan, Dani, Alex, Kevin, Gerry V, Kirk,
                     Andrew (Groove Merchant), Harry Who]
SPAZ (Semi-Permanent Autonomous Zone), 2 sound systems, new DJs and live
        performances each week.  $3, 60 Sixth Street.  info 415.sols666 
Recycle - every other Weds w/Carlos, Dutch, Christophe & guests. 415.599.3750
Pacific - 683 Clementina @ 8th (between Folsom & Howard) - 
        Starts at 10pm, $5.  415.985.5264
Gemini - josh, spun, donald glaude, la paix, rick preston, dj dan,
        carlos & dutch.  415.979.4915

------------------------------- Info Lines ----------------------------------

Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087.  Usually has 5-10 listings, updated daily.
Elmo - 415-884-ABCD

------------------------------ Radio Shows ----------------------------------
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Sunday evening 6:30-9pm - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Sunday evening 9-11pm - Universal radio at 89.1 FM.  Trance dance
        and power house.  Guest DJs weekly (SF & East Bay)
Sunday night 10pm-2am - Ambience w/Michael Hayes & David X  KWOD 106.5 (Sac)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe or uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

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From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 13:40:24 1994
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:39:35 -0800
To: child@netcom.com (Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild),
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
Subject: Re: trancing
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  1:16 PM 4/8/94 you warmly wrote:

[...]

>On a related note, I happened to be watching, "rescue 911" at a friend's house
>a while back and there was this story about a guy who was hanging out of a
>window of a highrise apartment that was on fire.  Smoke was pouring out from
>behind him and it wasn't clear if he would be forced to jump to his death.
>Two firepeople with scuba tanks and facial masks and the whole outfit
>roped down from the roof into an adjacent window, broke the
>window and entered through it.  It was obvious that they were risking their
>lives.  Well they rescued the guy and later they interviewed him.  He was
>basically saying  that he was so surprised that two humans who didn't even
>know him would actually put their own lives at risk to save his.  And he was
>crying and he just couldn't believe their kindness.  And I was crying too.
>And it gave me the warm fuzzies all over.
>
>All right so it wasn't related to raving but I just wanted to relate that
>story.  Hey, the warm fuzzies is a great feeling too.  Acts of human kindness
>and compassion make my day.

Shows like that and sometimes COPS, do that to me a lot.  It shows there
isn't enough human kindness in the world, especially when we hear shit
coming from Bosnia and Rwanda.  And then when we see things like that on a
show, it catches our emotions off-guard.  Thanks for sharing...

- Steve
>
>ex-fractal surfer who wanders all over the place (topic-wise)
>Space



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 13:46:59 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404142046.NAA23346@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: 24th outside in berkeley
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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This is from DJ Elf

Free Outdoor Party at the berkeley waterpark, which is right next to
thunder bay(a club),

more news as I get it       24th of April Sunday daytime

Basics 415.905.9629 friday
Wicked 512.5713 next friday        some boddy has figured out fridays
                                                   are open.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 15:04:44 1994
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 14:56:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: well... (fwd)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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i thought i would pass along this message i got from a promoter in 
baltimore...i was hoping you guys would have some good advice for 
him...so reply to lonnie @ ultraworld@aol.com...susie (:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 02:26:08 EDT
From:ultraworld@aol.com
To: susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU
Subject: well...

so do they have daytime raves in san fran that end at about midnight or two? 
if so, how are they?

there's a lot of great spaces (outdoors) that we could use, but we can't use
them at night past 12 am.  

we're trying to decide if it's worth it.

lonnie


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 15:32:22 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: apocalypse?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


   i thought i heard that there was going to be another apocalypse friday
night.  is that just a rumor or is it true?  just wondering....  thank 
you...

calvin@cats.ucsc.edu   (matt......)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 16:02:23 1994
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From: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
Subject: park party on Sunday?
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I read in the calendar about the SJ Women's collective party happening
on Sunday....now, I talked to someone in that collective and she said that
there wasn't going to be a party.  But I talked to Harry last night and
he said there would be something going on.


What's happening?

I figure I will just end up at Good Housekeeping anyway, but I wanted
to get that question out so there would be some attempt at an answer!


see ya
m i k e


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 16:18:19 1994
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Date: 14 Apr 1994 14:01:00 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: Viva Las Vegas (elvis drawl excluded)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, socal-raves@uci.edu
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hey, the dead are goin' ta LV on june 24,25,26.  just was announced fer sure
  today for mail order, and ticket-o-tron or whatever probably in 2 weeks

the vegas show is now the biggest non-business event of the ENTIRE YEAR in
  that kooky town, and there is a MASSIVE parkinglot scene there, too (I
    was there last year and couldn't get enuf of the deadheads taking over
      the casinos :)

anywho, what about atomic rooster making a road trip? any socal'ers gonna
  set up? and what about all those high desert ravers i keep reading about???

seeya!

Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 17:26:29 1994
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 17:26:01 PDT
From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Message-Id: <9404150026.AA24189@dre.hal.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: oh no! or park party on Sunday?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hello All!

No, there won't be a party at the park this Sunday
(insert tail between legs)- basically, we had the 
choice between newsletters and parties- we picked 
the newsletter (a little late in the game, I 
might add). I'll make sure Harry knows the deal. 

BUT, we will do a party someday; that is certain.
Probably a joint function with YSH.

If anyone's interested, the SJ Collective will be 
participating in a (women's) clinic defense VERY 
early Saturday morning. e-mail me for more info &
come on down!  

parties will happen when we're ready-
sorry for the confusion,

Jocelyn


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 18:51:52 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 21:48:45 EDT
Subject: FREE PARTY!! 4/20
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

                            Free Outdoor Party
                                April 20, 1994
                                    Join DJ's
                    John, Justin, Pat, and Friends
                         For an afternoon of the
                funkiest house, techno, and hip hop
                              (415) 485-6597

This will be an outdoor party very close to San Francisco at a bust free
beach location (we have permits for loud music). We'll be starting up at
around noon and continue until sunset or later. Please call the info line for
further infornmation.
Remember: "Bongs not Bombs and Buds not Bullets"
Hope to see you all there for 4:20!

Sean

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From: Courtney Love-Cobain  <payn@scf.usc.edu>
Message-Id: <199404141941.MAA08171@phakt.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!! (fwd)
To: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno
In-Reply-To: <199404132329.QAA24322@mail.netcom.com> from "Steve Saeedi" at Apr 13, 94 04:27:44 pm
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> Call me stoopid;  Call me clueless;  But, who are these Goth Girls???
> and what is the music they listen to???
How 'bout if I call you Steve?

> - Steve (hopelessly out of date :)
Oh, good, it's your name anyway....

OK, goths are people who dress gothic, listen to gothic music, and think
like goths. Real helpful, right? Basically, the clothing is black, often
covering either as much of the body as possibly (sometimes down to veils 
and gloves) or as little as possible, most often just a simple long black
dress. The accessories are steel and silver jewelry, usually with mythical
(including Christian or otherwise) significance, and sometimes (thanks to
Andrew Eldritch of the Sisters of Mercy, the gothest guy around) dark
sunglasses and leather jackets, despite the fact that they don't really
fit the look. Most goths are pale with black hair (not always natural,
of course). Some wear makeup designed to make them look more corpselike,
but this is not as common as it was in the days when Fad Gadget made fun
of his followers for it. Gothic music is an interesting genre, better
defined by the tone of the music and lyrics than by the sound (it's hard
to imagine where the common ground is between Siouxsie and the Banshees,
Christian Death, Sisters of Mercy, and the Cult, in purely musical terms).
Other important bands, besides those four, are Fields of the Nephilim,
Joy Division, Bauhaus, and the various splinter groups and precursors of 
all of the above (except for New Order, of course). Goths also often
listen to industrial bands like Skinny Puppy and sometimes to ambient
and atmospheric music.

Speaking of hopelessly out of date, there are those who say the goths 
are hopelessly out of date. In one sense, this is certainly true--they
celebrate romanticism, aristocratic and--well--gothic myths (like, oh,
I don't know, vampires), and so forth. Of course the Sisters of Mercy
seem to be more cyberpunk than vampiric, actually, and their videos are
full of large metal structure, factory machinery, lasers, black leather,
sunglasses... but still, the prevailing ideas in gothdom are romantic.
In the other sense, this is somewhat true. The real heyday of gothic
music died out in the mid-1980s, when some of the bands that the goths
held close to their hearts suddenly became mainstream alternative bands
(the Cure, Siouxsie), others broke up (in particular, the Sisters of 
Mercy--of course Andrew just formed a new band, as he is wont to do,
but there's only been one album since 1987's Floodland, and that one
album really kind of sucks), and for various other reasons (in LA, for
example, The Crypt shut down), many goths just stopped being goths. Of 
course the most dedicated continued on, driving farther to find clubs
or just being gothic at home. Recently, for no good reason as far as I
can see, there was a new explosion of gothic music, and cities like
Sydney, Melbourne, London, Los Angeles, and even Salt Lake City suddenly
have thriving gothic scenes, mostly made up of newcomers of course. It
is to these, who most outsiders see as trendy copycats (and maybe they
are, but the old goths certainly don't mind them), who are usually
called out of date, for celebrating what's essentially seen as a retro
scene (tell that to the Neph or Rosetta Stone, though) as if it were new.

If you want more info, I've e-mailed a FAQ from the alt.gothic newsgroup
to Steve, and I'll be happy to send it to the list if anyone wants it,
but to avoid wasting bandwidth, I won't send it unless someone asks. You
can also FTP it from ftp.maths.tcd.ie in /pub/music/gothic/gothic-faq,
or if you have Web access, you can find it in http format at
http://gothic.acs.csulb.edu:8080/~vamp/Gothic/Text/gothic-faw.html,
or ask me for it.




From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 20:14:51 1994
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To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: quit using bandwidth!
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 18:38:49 -0700
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@eit.COM>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


just joking, rave on rave on....

------- Forwarded Message

To: interesting-people@eff.org (interesting-people mailing list)

From: Tony Rutkowski <amr@isoc.org>

The NSF-NIS NSFNet statistics were released today.  A couple of developments
of some strategic significance:


A new traffic record was reached in the Internet world. Traffic on the NSF
backbone grew by a stunning 20.7 percent - nearly 2 terabytes - during the
month of March, for a new total of 11.226 Terabytes per month.  This is the
largest single jump in the history of the Internet.

The browsing services continue to grow at remarkable rates.  Gopher traffic
grew by 17.6 percent and http (WWW) grew by 32.9 percent to a new total of
one-half terabyte per month.  Indeed, http traffic grew by a total of 0.7
percent of total NSFNet traffic, and is now 5th in service rank after
ftp, telnet, netnews, and smtp mail.


The new statistics are embodied in the latest Internet Society
powerpoint graphs:

ftp://ftp.isoc.org/isoc/charts/internet.ppt and browsing.ppt

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Anthony M. Rutkowski
 Executive Director
 Internet Society

 12020 Sunrise Valley Dr, Suite 270
 Reston VA  22091
 USA

 email: amr@isoc.org

 tel: +1 703 648 9888
 fax: +1 703 648 9887

 THE INTERNET IS ITS OWN REVOLUTION
 Internet est sa propre revolution
 INTERNET ES SU PROPIA REVOLUCION

------- End of Forwarded Message



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 20:57:31 1994
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From: Katharine Mary Nester <kkat@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: quit using bandwidth!
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@eit.com>
Cc: San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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I have a question for anyone who can help.
does anyone know the wicked address? if you do I'd be very grateful if 
you wo

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 21:07:14 1994
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 20:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Katharine Mary Nester <kkat@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: wicked
To: sfravers <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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sorry.....
my last message got untimely interrupted, and was sent prematurely under 
the wrong heading. anyway if anyone knows the wicked address please send 
it to me thanks.                     
                                        Talizman.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 14 23:06:39 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, socal-raves@uci.edu,
        uunet!joyce.dnet.hac.com!SCRUTON@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Viva Las Vegas (elvis drawl excluded)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

hey, the dead are goin' ta LV on june 24,25,26.  just was announced fer sure
  today for mail order, and ticket-o-tron or whatever probably in 2 weeks

the vegas show is now the biggest non-business event of the ENTIRE YEAR in
  that kooky town, and there is a MASSIVE parkinglot scene there, too (I
    was there last year and couldn't get enuf of the deadheads taking over
      the casinos :)

anywho, what about atomic rooster making a road trip? any socal'ers gonna
  set up? and what about all those high desert ravers i keep reading about???

seeya!

Dave Scruton

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ya, and the casinos have big banners saying "Welcome Deadheads".   I guess
as long as your monies green....

Bonus:  Traffic is opening for the Dead in Vegas too.
Warning:  Nevada has pretty strict drug laws as states go.

-Guthrie

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 08:32:00 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404151532.IAA06825@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 08:32:53 -0700 (PDT)
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 I'm at work , so I can't quote the article at length , but this 
morning's San Francisco Chronicle ( Friday morning ) has a lower-front-page
article about a new series of "rave masses" that will be starting at Grace
Cathedral. It will be held by Mathew Fox "the avant-garde priest 
defrocked by the Vatican for his free-spirited theology" .
 The article says he was inspired by a visit to England , where alternative
Anglicans have been holding these things . ( Can our British readers
confirm this? "Rave in the Nave" ?). 
 The article says "he hopes to celebrate the first Rave Mass in October".

 Any reactions? Personally , it's been one of my "fantasy raves" to hold a
rave with a Christian spiritual focus - 

	JESUSRAVESJESUSRAVESJESUSRAVES!!!

	Larry " Not very Christian these days , actually" Ching


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 09:32:21 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 09:32:15 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, larryc@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Here are some excerpts from today's Chronicle article:

"Mathew Fox the avant-garde priest defrocked by the Vatican for his 
free-spirited theology, will become an Episcopal priest and begin a
high-tech, high-decibal 'Rave Mass' this year in the basement of Grace
Cathedral.

"Fox got the idea for the rock and roll liturgy after visiting a band of
unorthodox young Anglicans in England - where the "Rave in the Nave
features loud music, women dancing in bikinis and vieo monitors flashing
messages such as "Eat God".

[...snip..]

"During Fox's visit to England, the Mass was held in the basement of a
sports complex and included 42 television sets flashing images of
galaxies, dancing atoms, DNA, lunar eclipses and male-femal archetypes

[...snip..]

"Episcopal Bishop William Swing said he has talked to Fox about his
theological ideas and has determined that 'his understanding of Jesus
Christ is both orthodox and biblical.'

[...snip..]

"Fox acknowledged that designer psychedelic drugs such as 'Ecstasy' are
popular in the Rave culture in both the United States and England.

'That's exactly what they (the sponsors of the Rave Masses in England)
are trying to combat', he said. 'The Rave culture did not begin with drugs.  
You can go drugs, or you can go religion, go transcendence, go for the
spiritual power of community and ritual.'"

[...snip..]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 09:43:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 09:47:05 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: Viva Las Vegas (elvis drawl excluded)
Cc: miga@well.sf.ca.us
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>hey, the dead are goin' ta LV on june 24,25,26.  just was announced fer sure
>  today for mail order, and ticket-o-tron or whatever probably in 2 weeks
>
>the vegas show is now the biggest non-business event of the ENTIRE YEAR in
>  that kooky town, and there is a MASSIVE parkinglot scene there, too (I
>    was there last year and couldn't get enuf of the deadheads taking over
>      the casinos :)
>
>anywho, what about atomic rooster making a road trip? any socal'ers gonna
>  set up? and what about all those high desert ravers i keep reading about???
>
>seeya!
>
>Dave Scruton

Sounds good to me....

take it easy
ethan

                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 10:02:16 1994
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From: tazzleberry <tess@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Little Red Raver Girl fairy tale!!
To: Sean Casey <csc@pilot.njin.net>
Cc: Discoravers <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <9404131709.AA16825@pilot.njin.net>
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planet 6 sound 


On Wed, 13 Apr 1994, Sean Casey wrote:

> Yeah, I wanna know where I can hear some really dark trancey stuff or
> better yet, some really dark techno. I heard some once at my first
> event about a year ago, and never have since.
> 
> Sean
> 
check out any event where dj synthesis is playing.he's been playing dark 
trance since way before raves were even existant.he plays at s.p.a.z. 
once a month and whenever we do a renegade.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 10:39:42 1994
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From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404151739.KAA06956@well.sf.ca.us>
To: larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I think "Christian Rave" in an oxymoron. Having said that I have no
problem with christians at raves or with christians throwing raves.
I'd like to spin at Grace Cathedral on a Halloween night, particularly
if you could talk them into holding it upstairs, which is also a great
place to watch the scilent version of the Hunchback of Notre Dame, another
yearly event (or at least used to be).

Gil

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 11:00:26 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9404151801.AA23479@gaia.internex.net>
To: larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        tow@well.sf.ca.us
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
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> Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
> 
> I think "Christian Rave" in an oxymoron. Having said that I have no
> problem with christians at raves or with christians throwing raves.
> I'd like to spin at Grace Cathedral on a Halloween night, particularly
> if you could talk them into holding it upstairs, which is also a great
> place to watch the scilent version of the Hunchback of Notre Dame, another
> yearly event (or at least used to be).
> 
> Gil
>
 
I don't think "Christian Rave" is any more of an oxymoron than "Pagan Rave"
There are people who go to parties for basically religious (or spiritual)
reasons (like me :) and I must say that  as far as I'm concerned, the 
ultimate goal (at a good party) is to reach some sort of state of trancendance,
so I applude his actions.  I think if anybody actually read and thought about
the things that Jesus said (or stuff that people said that he said), it in 
itself is not a bad thing.  I think if you read the words and decide the meaning
for yourself that is good, this is my experience of a good party, there isn't
someone up there telling you "how to rave" or how to feel or anything like that
but yet a lot of people who go to parties are having a group experience of
"communitas" as it was called in the early church.

 anybody know how I can get in touch with him?


			G

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 11:12:45 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 11:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Reply-To: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: rave mass
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, socal-raves@ucsd.edu, dcraves@american.edu,
        seraves@american.edu, ne-raves@umdd.umd.edu, vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu,
        alt.rave@sutro.SFSU.EDU
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i am really shocked that any church could/would want to do this...and i
bet this guy fox has never been to a "real" rave (i love when they 
talk about that loud rock n roll at raves...and i bet they will 
have no problem getting permitts for sites..ahhhrrg!)...susie (:  from the 
San Francisco Chronicle April 15, 94

     'RAVE MASS' PLANNED FOR GRACE CATHEDRAL

by Don Lattin

     Matthew Fox, the avant-guarde priest defrocked by the Vatican for his
free-spirited theology, will become an Episcopal priest and begin a
high-tech, high-decibel "Rave Mass" this year in the basement of Grace
Cathedral. 

     Fox got the idea for the rock and roll liturgy after visting a band
of unorthodox young Anglicans in England--where the "Rave in the Nave" 
features loud music, women dancing in bikinis and video monitors flashing
messages such as "Eat God." 

     "I'm grateful it's in the basement," said the Rev. Alan Jones, dean
of Grace Cathedral, the seat of the Episcopal Diocese of California. 

     Rave Masses are all part of a high-risk, high-energy attempt by Fox,
53, and the local Episcopal church to get the attentin of the young
Americans bored by traditional Christian worship. 

     During Fox's visit to England the Mass was held in the basement of a
sports complex and included 42 television sets flashing images of
galaxies, dancing atoms, DNA, lunar eclipses and male-female archetypes. 

     Fox--whose blend of Christianity, eco_mysticism and liberal politics
led to a 10-year-old batle with Vatican authorities--now describe himself
as "a post-denominational priest." 

     "We don't have a lot of time to fiddle around with whether we're in
this demomination or that one," Fox said.  "I challenge you to find any
20-year-old cho can tell the difference between a Presbyterian, aLutheran,
a Methodist, an Episcopalian and a Roman Cathlic.  An who cares?" 

     Under Vatican pressure, the Dominican order dismissed Fox last year
after he refused his supervisor's order to leave his Institue for Culture
and Creation Spirituality, based in Oakland, and return to Chicago. 

     Fox, an internationally known author and lecturer, was accepted into
the Episcopal Church as a lay person earlier this year in a quite ceremony
at Grace Cathedral.  He is now being tutored in Anglican studies and is
scheduled to be ordained as an Episcopal priest in December. 

     He hopes to celebrate the first Rave Mass in October. 

     Episcopal Bishop William swing said he has talked to Fox about his
theological ideas andhas determined that "his undrstanding of Jesus Christ
is both orthodox and bibical." 

     "What makes him so controversial is that he attempts to translate the
central revelation of Christianity in a vocabulary that is not easyly
recognized in traditional circles," Swing said. 

     "He attempts to be a conduit for allowing a new generation to come to
terms with creation and the primary human need to worship God." 

     In a statement he plans to read at a press conference this moring at
Grace Cathedral, Fox laments that the Roman Catholic Church "is losing the
spirits and adventurous energies of the young." 

     "The Roman Cathlic Church is this archdiocese alone is busy selling a
dozen of its churches rather than asking the obvious quetion: Why do
people no longer want to attend church?" his statement reads. 

     Officials at Holy Names College in Oakland, the Catholic school that
has housed Fox's Institute for Culture and Creation Spirituality for the
past decade, said that they are "saddened" by Fox's decision to join the
Episcopal Church but that Fox will continiue to be associated with the
ecumenical institute. 

     Fox, whose mother was an Episcopalian, said in the interview that
"there is more elbow room" in the Episcopal Church today. 

     "Look what they've done about ordaining women, about maintaining a
balance of lay and clerical decision-making," he said.  "On issues of
birth control or married priests, they have not hid their heads in the
sand." 

     Fox acknowledged that designer psychadelic drugs such as "Ecstasy" 
are popular in the Rave culture in both the United States and England. 

     "That's exactly what they (the sponsers of the Rave Masses in
England) are trying to combat," he said.  "The Rave culture did not begin
with drugs.  You can go drugs, or you can go religion, go transcendence,
go for the spiritual power of community and ritual." 

     Jones, a native Briton who has met the Anglican priest who started
Rave Masses in England, said he has mised feeling about Fox's move from
the Catholic Church. 

     "He's a brilliant communicator and reaches a generation in a ver
exciting way," he said.  "But I am sad for the Roman church.  It's a
failure for the whole church when someone can't be at home in his won
tradition." 

     Jones also has some misgivings about Rave Masses. 

     "It sounded horrendous until i thought about my 17-year-old-son," he
said.  "We need to rish more to communicat the good news to young people. 
If it doesn't work, we'll try something else." 

     Fox is scheduled to preach at Grace Cathedral at 11 a.m. April 24.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 12:30:57 1994
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From: phuture@aol.com
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Message-Id: <9404151528.tn32053@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 15:28:27 EDT
Subject: Jesus raves?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I have a serious problem with any organization trying to use the 'rave' 
enviroment.  It takes a lot of personal effort for many just to be open, 
friendly, and have fun.  Renegade parties are an escape from the power
structure that most nightclubs are a willing and integral part of.  It is not
easy to let yourself become succeptible and theological  or politcal head
trips can bring fear and paranoia--just the playful use of some of its
imagery by the visul artists can really bug you out. I'd be seriously UNHAPPY
if it was 'for real.'  No message needs to be conveyed--the event speaks for
itself.  The use of heavy-handed, mass media style communication (how many
TVs did they have?) to try and channel the energy is a blatant attempt to
steal something that they lost long ago.  The good part is this means that
they acknowledge the fact they we got it like that!  Keep it goin.
BTW, I do agree that most of the Jesus stuff is, in of itself, a pretty
positive message but I don't think it can be separated from all that is 
associated with it at this point in time.

phuture  


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 13:09:08 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404152008.NAA01154@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Mathew Fox
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 13:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
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Matthew Fox is a Very New Age kind of person. Many New Agers have a set of
religious preferences which are taken from traditional religion of one 
kind or another. I think raving is part of new age culture.
Terrence mckenna/esalen/space time. Ghandi said he would be happy if the 
west was more christian. Its that Global village with pluralist, 
multi-cultural perspective that New Agers advocate. When I used to shelve 
books I used to have a hard time determining whether to put him in 
religion or new age sections. Ultimately he ended up in religion with the 
other christ-ey stuff. I too got queezy when confronted with the "died so 
you could live again" thing. The mental flips required to erase my bad
time at the Salvation Army are too great. There is room under the new age 
umbrella for rev. Fox but my predjudices and marketing skills got in the way.

salutations, allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 13:17:12 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9404152017.AA25045@gaia.internex.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Mathew Fox
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> Ghandi said he would be happy if the 
> west was more christian. Its that Global village with pluralist, 

I think the actual quote was when someone asked Ghandi whether he thought
that India would ever be a christian nation, his reply was

"When christians become as Christ, then all of the world will be christian"

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 13:30:47 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: drenalin@duckmail.uoregon.edu (Adrenalin)
Subject: baraka
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I'm not sure if it was on idm or sfraves but earlier this month there was a
discussion about a movie called Baraka.  It is an excellent movie.  I swa
it last night in the theater and am going to go see it again tomorrow
night.  I would have to say that it is probably the most evocative movie I
have ever seen, I had no idea that it was so possible to evoke the
incredible amounts of emotion that I felt in a movie without a single
word...
:)


The Cloud Factory
Our People Make the Difference

-------------------------------------------------------
(:   The Madlander - Doctor Goto - Tim - DJ Adrenalin         :)
(:               Dancing to reach a higher consciousness...        :)
-------------------------------------------------------
"I was running around handing out happiness to people..."
                                                       -groovy Chris



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 14:03:24 1994
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From: kalin@netcom.com (andy kalinowitsch)
Message-Id: <199404152104.OAA09995@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: baraka
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 14:04:29 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <199404152030.NAA18903@duckmail.uoregon.edu> from "Adrenalin" at Apr 15, 94 01:30:36 pm
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>I'm not sure if it was on idm or sfraves but earlier this month there was a
>discussion about a movie called Baraka.  It is an excellent movie.  I swa
>it last night in the theater and am going to go see it again tomorrow
>night.  I would have to say that it is probably the most evocative movie I
>have ever seen, I had no idea that it was so possible to evoke the
>incredible amounts of emotion that I felt in a movie without a single
>word...

on may 1st and 2nd, baraka will be playing at the red vic on haight
street (cross street cole).

andy
--
this moment may be brief, but it can be so bright; come on and shine like it.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 15:36:07 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 15:33:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "D. Ronan Hallowell" <holo@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
To: Larry Ching <larryc@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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This sort of interesting. Matthew Fox is pretty cool. An invoocation of 
the Sacred certainly wouldn't hurt the Rave scene. 
Love-Spirituality-Celebration go hand in hand!


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 15:51:58 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994   15:47 -0800 (PST)
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
To: holo@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

In-Reply-To: holo@netcom.com -- 04/15/94 15:45

hi folx,
regarding xtianity and raves, i am curious how the good rev. will
put together the life-affirming aspect of raving, its sheer sensuousness
of the beat, of the sexual energy with the decidedly death-whorshipping
aspect of the cross. it could be powerful, but not sure the death-kult
can 'accept' the life force. but then, maybe we can all learn somethin'
if it can be done.
take care/shalom/(se)X hits the spot
ovid

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 16:27:33 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
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To: larryc@netcom.com, holo@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Fri Apr 15 15:38 PDT 1994
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 15:33:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "D. Ronan Hallowell" <holo@netcom.com>
> Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
> To: Larry Ching <larryc@netcom.com>
> Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> 
> 
> This sort of interesting. Matthew Fox is pretty cool. An invoocation of 
> the Sacred certainly wouldn't hurt the Rave scene. 
> Love-Spirituality-Celebration go hand in hand!
> 
The other good thing about this is that since Matthew Fox is a "certified"
religous figure, it lends credence to the premise that "raving" is a
spiritual/religous endevor and falls under protection of the constitution 
due to freedom of religion.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 16:30:09 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 19:29:32 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404152329.AA09773@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Offering ride to Basics/GG Park party
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Me and two friends are trekking up from Sac/Davis for Basics/GG park
party. We'll hit Basics around 11 I guess, stay the whole time, get
something to eat, and then go to the park party. I have room for one
(or two if you squeeze!), so if you need a ride let me know. If you're
in Berzerkely, that's fine, just know I won't be heading back till
Sunday afternoon/eve. If you're closer, I can take you back Sat
morning if you want.

Email me before 6pm TODAY when I go offline, or call me at
916-488-8184 before 8pm.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 17:23:21 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 17:23:07 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
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To: larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>'That's exactly what they (the sponsors of the Rave Masses in England)
are trying to combat', he said. 'The Rave culture did not begin with drugs.

You can go drugs, or you can go religion, go transcendence, go for the
spiritual power of community and ritual.'"


just goes to show you how advanced church minds are.  we all know drugs are
no substitute for true organized god.

peach
alpha

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 17:30:32 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
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To: larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        rmt@well.sf.ca.us
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> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Fri Apr 15 17:25 PDT 1994
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 17:23:07 -0700
> From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
> To: larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
> 
> >'That's exactly what they (the sponsors of the Rave Masses in England)
> are trying to combat', he said. 'The Rave culture did not begin with drugs.
> 
> You can go drugs, or you can go religion, go transcendence, go for the
> spiritual power of community and ritual.'"
> 
> 
> just goes to show you how advanced church minds are.  we all know drugs are
> no substitute for true organized god.
> 
> peach
> alpha
> 
Not to dis on anybody or anything but Matthew Fox is _far_ from a real
representative of "organized" god.  He takes up with witches, voodoo queens,
shamen, native american medicine men, etc.  this is what got him into trouble.

If anything, he has tried to bring "organized religion" to recognize that they
have lost the meaning of true spirituality.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 17:35:27 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 17:35:15 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404160035.RAA03715@well.sf.ca.us>
To: geoffw@internex.net, larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com,
        rmt@well.sf.ca.us, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>Not to dis on anybody or anything but Matthew Fox is _far_ from a real
>representative of "organized" god.  He takes up with witches, voodoo
queens,
>shamen, native american medicine men, etc.  this is what got him into
trouble.

i'm not quibbling w/ matthew fox, who i've met several times, but with his
public statement on drugs, which is cowardly.  how do you think he evolved?
and let's not forget that religeous freedom even for the "native american
shamen" you say he consorts with is not a true freedom yet in the US.

peach
alpha

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 17:43:58 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
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To: geoffw@internex.net, larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com,
        rmt@well.sf.ca.us, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
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> From rmt@well.sf.ca.us Fri Apr 15 17:36 PDT 1994
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 17:35:15 -0700
> From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
> To: geoffw@internex.net, larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com,
>         rmt@well.sf.ca.us, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
> 
> >Not to dis on anybody or anything but Matthew Fox is _far_ from a real
> >representative of "organized" god.  He takes up with witches, voodoo
> queens,
> >shamen, native american medicine men, etc.  this is what got him into
> trouble.
> 
> i'm not quibbling w/ matthew fox, who i've met several times, but with his
> public statement on drugs, which is cowardly.  how do you think he evolved?
> and let's not forget that religeous freedom even for the "native american
> shamen" you say he consorts with is not a true freedom yet in the US.
> 
> peach
> alpha
> 


Yes, I'm sure he has "dosed" which is one of the reasons he is as open as
he is.  Maybe his statement is "cowardly" as you put it, but in a time where
the word "drug" brings an equivilent response as the word "witchcraft" did
3 centuries ago I think he is being a little shrewd and maybe a little
cowardly, let's see what the rave/mass is like and then judge.

Susie and I will be going to see his Mass at Grace Cathedral on the 24 if
anybody else in interested.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 17:51:55 1994
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From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404160046.RAA07636@well.sf.ca.us>
To: geoffw@internex.net, larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com,
        rmt@well.sf.ca.us, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

if one wants to be shrewd, one doesn't mention drugs at all.  but one
doesn't put them down, for that feeds continuing the present ridiculous
situation.
alpha

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 18:42:07 1994
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From: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Christian raves?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


The pushers of Christianity (an addictive drug, like all organized 
religions) often try to excuse themselves by the same tired argument
Matthew Fox has used, that "Well, a lot of people who _call_ themselves
Christian do bad things, but _real_ Christianity is a good thing."

You can't separate the two.  What Christianity is is determined by the
people that practice it, and that has been an overwhelmingly shameful
legacy of corruption, oppression, hatred, and destruction.

Besides, the Bible is very clear on how one must be intolerant to be
Christian, even to the point of killing those who don't practice its
arcane rituals of daily life.

All the reasonable people I've met who call themselves Christian actually
talk and act more like Buddhists than Christians.

I believe that if we want to build a community based on love, trust, and
transcendence through trance (not to mention indulgence), we ought not
to handicap ourselves by starting from a belief that is based on fear of
eternal punishment and dependence on misogynist authority.

// g

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 19:31:01 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9404160231.AA00178@gaia.internex.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: This Months WiReD
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Hey check out this month's wired the cover has a supposed "zippie"
on it and an article about the new cultural phenomenon in the UK called
zippies... funny, they still look like ravers to me :)

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 19:37:46 1994
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From: THE Mike <ez040312@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
To: Larry Ching <larryc@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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That's soooooo RAD!!!! (sorry for the out of date terminology, but I've 
been living near the beach for the last decade and I'm now going through 
withdrawls.)

Mike--in the pit of the valley

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 20:09:28 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 20:09:17 -0700
In-Reply-To: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
        "Re: Viva Las Vegas (elvis drawl excluded)" (Apr 15,  9:47am)
References: <199404151644.JAA09132@mail.netcom.com>
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I mailed in for LV tickets too.  But I think the best idea would be
to start in the parking lot and then move out to the desert for an
allnighter after the show.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 20:14:28 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404160315.UAA13510@netcom10.netcom.com>
Subject: Mass Thread Headers
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 20:15:32 -0700 (PDT)
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 Just asking a favor to those who are engaged in the Rave Mass thread -
if you are going to post to sfraves in general , you can take me off the
distribution , as I get sfraves@techno.stanford.edu postings pretty
dependably. I am trying to "fine-tune" my second-hand Mac II's terminal
software to act properly with NETCOM , and reading duplicated mail is
a hassle.

		Thanks!   Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
e

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 21:57:07 1994
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From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Basics location??
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It's almost 10pm and Martin has still not changed the info-line to reveal 
the location.  Does anyone have any inside tips?  I've heard rumours of 
Bonny Doon...

If at Bonny Doon, would it get started before 3am?

INFO PLEEEZ!
:)

-Seth

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 22:16:09 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404160517.WAA07198@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: Another Twist on Rave Mass
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 22:17:17 -0700 (PDT)
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Here's another twist to the Rave Mass story. The San Jose Mercury News
also had an article about Matthew Fox , and while most of the same 
information was covered, there were some interesting new data:

Quote Source: San Jose Mercury News , April 15 , 1994
Writer: Richard Scheinin , Mercury News Religion and Ethics Writer
Title:"A Catholic moved by a new spirit: Maverick priest, theologian 
turns Episcopalian"

 After 27 years as a Roman Catholic priest and a decade of engaging in 
public brinkmanship with the Vatican, Matthew Fox is moving to the 
Episcopal church. 

 Characteristically, the Oakland-based theologian and author, whose 
writings were once denounced as "deviant and dangerous" by Rome and 
whose international audience keeps growing among many who are 
disgruntled with the Vatican and other religious institutions is making 
the move with a splash . 

 Today he will announce his new association with San Francisco's Grace 
Cathedral, which will sponsor him as a candidate for the Episcopal 
priesthood and provide a forum for his work in "creation spirituality."
And, true to form, the man who once placed a witch on the faculty of his 
Institute of Culture and Creation Spirituality at Holy Names College in 
Oakland will announce his "solidarity" with a group of blue-collar, 
Anglican youths from England who are "reinventing rituals" with rave 
dancing, electronic media and techno art. A contingent of these radical, 
electronic Christians will soon come to San Francisco to establish an 
independent "base community" with the prospect that Grace will help them 
find a home for their Masses in the Bay Area.   

[text removed]

 He expects the Episcopal Church, whose relatively liberal policies 
support the ordination of women as priests, to be more accepting of his 
"revisioning" of Christianity and his conception of a "Cosmic Christ" who 
infuses and transcends all creation. From his new home, Fox will pursue  
his latest project: working with the young Britons from a depressed 
industrial town outside Manchester, England. Each Sunday, 600 of them meet 
for Mass in the darkened basement of a sports complex.  

 "They have 42 television sets and a dozen video screens with images of 
DNA dancing and galaxies and atoms ... flitering on all sides of the 
altar," said Fox, who visited in November and February. "It's dark and 
mysterious. The only light comes from these electronic sources - but it's 
a MASS.... Ten of these young people are coming here this summer to show  
us that you can pour this youth culture, this cutting-edge art, into  
the spiritual tradition of the West and turn everyone on by creating  
these rituals .
 
[text removed]

 ... he has often said creation spirituality is concerned with 
returning spiritual power from institutions to individuals and communities.
Why then is Fox now aligning himself with a new institution, albeit an 
Episcopal one? 

 "Because I'm not New Age," he said, "and because I believe in tradition. 
And the Anglican tradition is very close to the Roman Catholic. Half my 
books are about the medieval mystical tradition in Christianity. To teach, 
you have to be connected with a tradition. 

[text removed]
[ end of article ]

---------------------------

 So , who are these British blue-collar Anglican radical electronic
Christians?????

	Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 15 22:42:47 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404160540.WAA02942@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: A weird crosspost
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


----- Begin Included Message -----

From rkrouse@octel.com Fri Apr 15 21:36:51 1994
Return-Path: <rkrouse@octel.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 15:57:22 PDT
From: robert.rouse@octel.com (Robert Rouse)
To: homeboys@nexsys.net
Content-Length: 2897
X-Lines: 69
Status: RO



GS> This is about a Book....

Date  _____________
Copied: March-31-1994
>From  : LIBOR SPACEK
To    : ALL
System: XBN
Conf. : 0080 - C:NEW_AGE2

From: spacl@essex.ac.uk (Libor Spacek)

In the rain forests of Peru, an ancient manuscript has been discovered.
Within its pages are 9 key insights into life itself - insights each
human being is predicted to grasp sequentially, as we move toward a
completely spiritual culture on Earth.

1. Nothing happens "by accident". (Everything carries personal meaning).

2. Our thinking is shaped and limited by the time we live in but we
   can gain broader perspective.

3. Everything is made of pure Energy that can be directly experienced.
   Evolution is seen as an increase of the Energy (frequency). Human beings
   have a lot of this Energy.

4. All human interactions have been motivated by trying to obtain this 
   Energy from other people (mostly unconsciously).

5. The Energy can be gained directly from the Source by mystical experience
   thus putting human interactions on the right footing.

6. The Energy is taken from others by controlling them through one (or more)
   of the following set behaviours: intimidation (inducing fear), 
   interrogation (finding fault), aloofness (begging attention), "poor me" 
   (inducing guilt). There are set patterns of interactions that get passed
   from parents to children. If we recognise these patterns in our own life,
   we can become aware of our true life purpose (strategy).

7. We get immediate (tactical) guidance at all times from (all) people we
   meet, from our dreams and from "daydreaming". Cf. (1). The skill is to
   formulate the right questions - the answers will come. In future, we will
   naturally reward people for the way they touched us, rather than for
   their material goods.

8. We can stop other's "control dramas" by recognising and naming them.
   The energy can be given and freely exchanged (cf. 5), rather than taken.
   In loving relationships this happens at first, later often degenerating
   into the usual energy competition. If energy (full loving attention)
   is consciously given out within a group to one person at a time,
   everyone is energised = evolved much more. 

9. On the level of a society, this can set up a "positive feedback loop"
   whereby whole groups of people (such as the Mayans who had left us the
   Manuscript) will be so energised as to turn into light, ie. become
   invisible and Ascend. Fear is the only way to stop/drain this energy.



GLENDA STOCKS                  | FidoNet 1:330/201.0 
SearchNet HeadQuarters         | InterNet GS@rochgte.fidonet.org
Snet Mailing List info, Send   | Data: 508-586-6977 / 617-961-4865
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majordomo@world.std.com        | Voicemail: +1-617-341-6114


 * RM 1.3 00257 * CAT Scan: a medical test for the presence of furballs.



----- End Included Message -----


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 01:12:54 1994
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 01:12:48 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404160812.BAA12624@well.sf.ca.us>
To: larryc@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  Another Twist on Rave Mass
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>So , who are these British blue-collar Anglican radical electronic
Christians?????

just more flock seekers (albeit well-meaning).

make your own flock, priests.  thank you.

peach,
alpha

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 01:17:18 1994
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 01:17:13 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404160817.BAA13197@well.sf.ca.us>
To: geoffw@nexsys.net, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  A weird crosspost
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

in regards to the weird peruvian post:

you all know what you need already.
having spent much time in peru, i can guess that post is bullshit.
besides, you all know what you need already.
you may not know how to listen to yourself, 
but you can get that figured out, maybe dancing.

peach,
alpha

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 03:58:20 1994
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To: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
Subject: Re: Christian raves?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  6:41 PM 4/15/94 -0700, JUMP IN THE FIRE wrote:
>The pushers of Christianity (an addictive drug, like all organized
>religions) often try to excuse themselves by the same tired argument
>Matthew Fox has used, that "Well, a lot of people who _call_ themselves
>Christian do bad things, but _real_ Christianity is a good thing."
>
>You can't separate the two.  What Christianity is is determined by the
>people that practice it, and that has been an overwhelmingly shameful
>legacy of corruption, oppression, hatred, and destruction.

Unlike Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddism, ...
>
>Besides, the Bible is very clear on how one must be intolerant to be
>Christian, even to the point of killing those who don't practice its
>arcane rituals of daily life.

Which Bible are you referring to?  Can you cite a source?
>
>All the reasonable people I've met who call themselves Christian actually
>talk and act more like Buddhists than Christians.

If I call myself God, but die when a truck plows into me, then perhaps I'm
not God.
>
>I believe that if we want to build a community based on love, trust, and
>transcendence through trance (not to mention indulgence), we ought not
>to handicap ourselves by starting from a belief that is based on fear of
>eternal punishment and dependence on misogynist authority.

I certainly don't want to live my life transcending through trance.  If you
want to talk about love, why is it that when I posted about someone getting
shot in front of Sound Factory last week, no one gave a rat's ass about it,
but talked about their favourite homebrew party instead?  Didn't _you_ care
enough to respond?  What happened?

You're sure quick to respond to anti-christian gobbley gook, finding some
easy target to vent your frustrations on.  Do you think _all_ Christians
blindly listen to the bable of the first reverend that comes along and then
go out and kill the neighbor Planned Parenthood doctor?

I'm rather sick of all this garbage about love, peace, & harmony from many
of the raver community myself.  Why?  Because they're so unapproachable.
How many times I have ran into many of them at parties, having already
introduced myself at a previous party, then to have to remind them of who I
am;  Again!

So, you want to talk about love, then you can start by doing the hardest
thing first;  Love a Christian!

- Steve (who goes to church, then to light-n-up)
>
>// g



From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 05:53:05 1994
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 05:53:00 -0700
In-Reply-To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
        "Another Twist on Rave Mass" (Apr 15, 10:17pm)
References: <199404160517.WAA07198@netcom9.netcom.com>
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It'll be interesting to see this Grace Cathedral MASSive!

I wonder if we can entice 'em out to the Grace Pavilion (the big
armory-style building at the Sonoma County Fairgrounds) to show 'em
*our* style of massive!

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 07:29:13 1994
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From: Courtney Love-Cobain  <payn@scf.usc.edu>
Message-Id: <199404161428.HAA16381@aludra.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: This Months WiReD
To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404160231.AA00178@gaia.internex.net> from "Geoff White" at Apr 15, 94 07:31:37 pm
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> Hey check out this month's wired the cover has a supposed "zippie"
> on it and an article about the new cultural phenomenon in the UK called
> zippies... funny, they still look like ravers to me :)

It seems to me that the SF rave scene has already accepted the hippies
in a way that the ravers in most other cities haven't. In particular, in
England, the "crusties" used to be despised by just about every group
of alternatives, from punks to grebos to ravers. So when British ravers
decided to hang out with the crusties and see what they could learn, it
was pretty open-minded of them.

In other words, the zippies are about as "advanced" (or whatever word
you want to use) as ravers from SF (in that they're interested in what
deadheads have to teach them, for example).

Anyway, having said that, the article was definitely overhyped silliness
to some extent. However, the big Evolution rave at the Grand Canyon in
August sounds quite cool. Not only do you get the ultimate outdoor 6-day
rave, you can meet these zippies and see what the hype is all about (if 
anything). 

I've written for info (to England), but if anyone else knows anything
substantive, go ahead and tell us. 
  ___________ ______________________________________________________________
 /   payn@    \ "Let an artist show you how to bring a curse down on Satan" \
/ scf.usc.edu /                         --Hilt                              /
\____________/_____________________________________________________________/

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 08:47:52 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404161549.IAA26801@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Sound Factory Shooting
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <199404161059.DAA14337@mail.netcom.com> from "Steve Saeedi" at Apr 16, 94 03:57:43 am
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 The subject of the (maybe) Sound Factory shooting was brought up in
a recent post about another subject -

> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 03:57:43 -0800
> To: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
> Subject: Re: Christian raves?
> 
 JUMP IN THE FIRE said: 
> >I believe that if we want to build a community based on love, trust, and
> >transcendence through trance (not to mention indulgence), we ought not
> >to handicap ourselves by ..... 

 To which Steve Saeedi said: 
> ....  If you
> want to talk about love, why is it that when I posted about someone getting
> shot in front of Sound Factory last week, no one gave a rat's ass about it,
> but talked about their favourite homebrew party instead?......
> 
 As far as I remember , there was still a matter of wether the incident
had actually occured or not. Weren't we waiting for someone to confirm
the shooting? Looking at my old mail , it seems that no one confirmed it.

 Over the last two years , there have been a few tragic incidents where
ravers have been killed , and there has always been some mourning here
on SFRaves. Obviously , if the shooting actually occured , and if someone
had actually been hurt or killed at the Sound Factory , it seems that  
nobody on this list knows the person or even if the tragedy occured. 

		Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com



From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 09:10:12 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404161608.JAA03502@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: geoffw@internex.net, payn@chaph.usc.edu
Subject: Re: This Months WiReD
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

> 
> I've written for info (to England), but if anyone else knows anything
> substantive, go ahead and tell us. 

From what I can assertain, this Grand Canyon Evolution thing is none other than
the Godd Ol' 'merican RAINBOW GATHERING of which the zippies have invited
themselves too.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 09:30:18 1994
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 94 12:29:45 -0400
From: carmela@umich.edu
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: evolution/grand canyon
Cc: carmela@umich.edu
Message-Id: 
 <Mailstrom.1.053UM.35513.-3114.carmela@c.imap.itd.umich.edu>
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hey now,

        could someone please fill me in on all this talk im hearing
about some massive 6-day shin-dig going down at the grand canyon
supposedly, sometime in august?



thanks 8)

sunshyne



From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 09:51:04 1994
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From: "Atherton, Darren" <datherton@EA.COM>
To: SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Sound Factory Shooting
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 94 09:53:00 PDT
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U know what that is true.. when ever stuff about violence in our community 
has come up on this line.. people have not said much of anything-instead they 
go on about admission prices and smoked out locations+ i think we need to 
start thinking about what is goin on in this culture of ours and talk more 
about how we can keep violence and hate away from the raving experience 
because it has been creeping it's way in like almost every where else in this 
state/country..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY FROM: Atherton, Darren
Return-Path: <SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404161549.IAA26801@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Sound Factory Shooting
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <199404161059.DAA14337@mail.netcom.com> from "Steve Saeedi" at
    Apr 16, 94 03:57:43 am
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 The subject of the (maybe) Sound Factory shooting was brought up in
a recent post about another subject -

> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 03:57:43 -0800
> To: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
> Subject: Re: Christian raves?
> 
 JUMP IN THE FIRE said: 
> >I believe that if we want to build a community based on love, trust, and
> >transcendence through trance (not to mention indulgence), we ought not
> >to handicap ourselves by ..... 

 To which Steve Saeedi said: 
> ....  If you
> want to talk about love, why is it that when I posted about someone getting
> shot in front of Sound Factory last week, no one gave a rat's ass about it,
> but talked about their favourite homebrew party instead?......
> 
 As far as I remember , there was still a matter of wether the incident
had actually occured or not. Weren't we waiting for someone to confirm
the shooting? Looking at my old mail , it seems that no one confirmed it.

 Over the last two years , there have been a few tragic incidents where
ravers have been killed , and there has always been some mourning here
on SFRaves. Obviously , if the shooting actually occured , and if someone
had actually been hurt or killed at the Sound Factory , it seems that  
nobody on this list knows the person or even if the tragedy occured. 

                Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com



From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 12:04:05 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404161903.MAA14287@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: High-Tech xtravaganza
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 12:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
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Joel Slayton and his Do-What-Do multi - media hightech madness
will be in front of the Palo Alto City Hall tonight, sat 16th.

He created a multi-media drive in on top of a sanjose parking garage
last year. This one will be like a cyber lawrence welk. Starts at 8pm.

The Budget is huge, The Technology is abundant.

Joel Slayton is a MIT artist castaway from the abandoned MIT project
which combined artists and engineers to develop new media. Many of the 
creative people left in the early eighties to join the silicon frontier
out here in the bay area. He is now a professer at SJSU and is my 
favorite working artist and a great guy.

salutations, allen@ameba


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 12:18:08 1994
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 12:18:00 -0700
From: Raul Gilbert MinaMora <tow@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404161918.MAA23112@well.sf.ca.us>
To: larryc@netcom.com, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        tow@well.sf.ca.us
Subject: Re: Rave Masses at Grace Cathedral
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

from Geoff White:
>I don't think "Christian Rave" is any more of an oxymoron than "Pagan Rave"
>There are people who go to parties for basically religious (or spiritual)
>reasons (like me :) and I must say that  as far as I'm concerned, the 
>ultimate goal (at a good party) is to reach some sort of state of
trancendance,
>so I applude his actions.  I think if anybody actually read and thought
about
>the things that Jesus said (or stuff that people said that he said), it in 
>itself is not a bad thing.  I think if you read the words and decide the
meaning
>for yourself that is good, this is my experience of a good party, there
isn't
>someone up there telling you "how to rave" or how to feel or anything like
that
>but yet a lot of people who go to parties are having a group experience of
>"communitas" as it was called in the early church.

 anybody know how I can get in touch with him?


			>G

 Well spirtuality and religion are two different things,
and as soon as you attach any religious moniker to rave it brings
with it at least its core beliefs if not all the dogma. So if you
don't share thier beliefs you are excluded in a very fundamental
way, your denied the very wellspring of your own spirituality,
wherever it may come from or whatever it might be. One of the 
wonderful things about raves is that they can be a spiritual
event for individual and group without as you point to "someone up
there telling you "how to rave" or how to feel or anything like that"
and I'd like them to stay that way. In the same scence "pagen" as defined
these days as "not christian or not judeo/christian" (from the dictionary
I have at hand) would also be an oxymoron because it denies the Jewish
and the Christian thier wellspring. Though when I see it on a flier it 
rings as more of an empty phrase.
 At any rate like I said I have no qualms with christians, independants,
wickians (sp?), artists, frog worshipers or people who just want to throw
a daaaang good party putting together a rave. Its when its used to codify
spiritualy in the framework of a particular belief system and used to
support that particular belief system and when its used to bring people
into the fold of that particular belief system that you lose me. From 
whats been posted out of the articals from the two newspapers these
things are clearly intended by the priest named Fox. Why else call them
"Rave Masses". To the priests credit he recognises that raves have a 
spiritual aspect and doesn't deny it. Its one of the strengths of the 
house community. But what binds us as a community (at the very least) is 
our enjoyment of dancing together in an event where people consiciously
try and create a benevolent vibe. We are able to do it quite well with
out a shared belief system and good for us I say.

Gil		

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 13:04:02 1994
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From: "Barry Alexander" <barryale@symantec.com>
Message-Id: <9403167665.AA766526633@symantec.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re[2]: Sound Factory Shooting
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


    if my neurons aren't failing me, i remember this being on the
    local news.  its was an out-of-town tourist female who got
    shot.  maybe that's why we/the list has shown such disinterest
    in this event.  sad but true.

    barry
> 
> As far as I remember , there was still a matter of wether the incident
>had actually occured or not. Weren't we waiting for someone to confirm
>the shooting? Looking at my old mail , it seems that no one confirmed it.
>
> Over the last two years , there have been a few tragic incidents where
>ravers have been killed , and there has always been some mourning here
>on SFRaves. Obviously , if the shooting actually occured , and if someone
>had actually been hurt or killed at the Sound Factory , it seems that  
>nobody on this list knows the person or even if the tragedy occured. 
>
>  Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
>




From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 13:32:17 1994
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 13:32:07 -0700
From: Kerry Jaggers <jaggedge@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404162032.NAA12705@well.sf.ca.us>
To: SFRaves@techno.Stanford.EDU, datherton@ea.com, saeedi@netcom.com
Subject: Sound Factory shooting
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

In reference to the questions re: the shooting, I'll pass on what a 
couple of rival club owners said occurred.  

Apparently, a customer got into an argument with a bartender over 
"something to do with *ice*" (the cold, wet kind) and was expelled from 
the club, shouting threats and curses throughout the ordeal.  The guy 
stood out front making threats of violence for awhile afterward.  The 
police were not involved at that time according to most sources.   I'm 
told that the club management later said they *had* called by this point.
Anyway, there were no police present until well after the guy had gotten 
into a pickup, driven around the club several times, hazing staff and 
pedestrians, and finally pulling a pistol from under the seat and firing 
six rounds into the entrance before speeding off.  An otherwise uninvolved 
girl was hit and hospitalized.  I have heard every possible option 
regarding her condition, so maybe someone else can help you there.

Hope that helps.  Like I said, it's all heresay, but is probably as close to
the truth as we're liable to get.   Take care, Kerry

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 16:15:27 1994
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 16:15:08 -0700
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404162315.QAA02878@soda.berkeley.edu>
To: grigsby@agames.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  Christian raves?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 18:41:37 PDT
	From: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
	
-	Besides, the Bible is very clear on how one must be intolerant to be
-	Christian, even to the point of killing those who don't practice its
-	arcane rituals of daily life.
	

	where in the bible (regarding christianity) do you find
	support for this statement?  maybe someplace in the old
	testament, but i don't belive you can back these words 
	text from the new testament.

cali



From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 16:24:29 1994
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From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404162324.QAA03656@soda.berkeley.edu>
To: mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  High-Tech xtravaganza
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	i saw do-what-do last year, and it was quite impressive.
	look into it if you can get down to pa!

cali

	From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Sat Apr 16 12:05:35 1994
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	From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
	Message-Id: <199404161903.MAA14287@soda.berkeley.edu>
	Subject: High-Tech xtravaganza
	To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
	Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 12:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
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	Joel Slayton and his Do-What-Do multi - media hightech madness
	will be in front of the Palo Alto City Hall tonight, sat 16th.
	
	He created a multi-media drive in on top of a sanjose parking garage
	last year. This one will be like a cyber lawrence welk. Starts at 8pm.
	
	The Budget is huge, The Technology is abundant.
	
	Joel Slayton is a MIT artist castaway from the abandoned MIT project
	which combined artists and engineers to develop new media. Many of the 
	creative people left in the early eighties to join the silicon frontier
	out here in the bay area. He is now a professer at SJSU and is my 
	favorite working artist and a great guy.
	
	salutations, allen@ameba
	
	


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 16 20:53:59 1994
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From: chinacat@netcom.com (J. Petersen)
Message-Id: <199404170355.UAA11265@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: This Months WiReD
To: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 20:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404161608.JAA03502@nexsys.nexsys.net> from "Geoff White" at Apr 16, 94 09:08:11 am
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> 
> > 
> > I've written for info (to England), but if anyone else knows anything
> > substantive, go ahead and tell us. 
> 
> From what I can assertain, this Grand Canyon Evolution thing is none other than
> the Godd Ol' 'merican RAINBOW GATHERING of which the zippies have invited
> themselves too.
> 
> 

Except that, according to alt.gathering.rainbow, the prospective
locations for the National Rainbow Gathering don't include
the Grand Canyon. Besides, I can't see them choosing such
a public place to HOLD a Rainbow Gathering...

My guess is that the zippies are trying to associate themselves
with something they read about in Rolling Stone magazine, and
aren't really 100% aware of what the Rainbow Gathering is all
about.  I can't see how a mass of generators playing amplified
techno music is going to fit into a Rainbow Gathering without
being a major disruption. If they have their own camp, out on
the peripheral of the main Rainbow camp, that might work.

It would be great to get the ravers together with the Rainbows,
but I would feel terrible if it in any way detracted from the
Rainbow experience. I am afraid of the prospect of tons of
ravers descending on a Rainbow Gathering without first being
fully informed what the Rainbows believe in and what they
are looking for out of their Gathering.

Just as you wouldn't want a bunch of Rainbows to come over
to your rave and unplug all the machines, it's not fair for
Ravers to go to a Rainbow Gathering and plug IN all kinds
of machines.

Hopefully there will be some forethought and some planning
about all of this.

If it happens, it will be quite an experience!  :-)



D


-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jim Petersen                              Argue for your limitations...
chinacat@netcom.com                            And they are yours


From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 03:18:15 1994
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From: JMRTNKO DSGN ETC SFCA <martinko@netcom.com>
Subject: Respect for the Living (was Sound Factory...)
To: ezzevvravess <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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Well, what are you gonna do? At the risk of sounding cynical, all the 
raves in the world won't stop senseless violence. And even if it could, 
it can't stop death. Life is a fragile thing and nobody gave you a 
guarrantee that it would be either long or good (the two not necessarily 
going hand-in-hand). Heartless? I don't think so. I can't do anything for 
the woman killed or any of the other people I hear about. I *can* do 
something for myself and the people I love to make sure that if these 
lives do (regrettably) turn out to be short, that they were at least *good*.

My grandmother died last month and they guy who was in all the papers a 
couple weeks ago after he was stabbed to death in the Haight was Carmen's 
friend Justin who spent his last afternoon on my couch before heading 
back up there. So, sorry to be selfish, but I've had my share of death 
this month. I don't want sympathies, nor does Carmen. Long or short, they 
both had good lives mostly due to the people around them, and that's what 
we want. Good people and good friends, because that's what matters and 
what should be remembered, not an obituary.

As far as preventing violence, I'll pat everyone's back and say we've 
already done more than a herd of legislators, lawyers and cops. For 
whatever reason, we bring together hundreds, sometimes thousands of
people of all kinds weekly without incident. How many events or 
activities can you say that about? Our goals seem simple enough: to use 
our individual talents and desire to celebrate this little piece of life 
we have and to share it with and connect it to others. Instead of dwelling  
on the past and 'what might have been' we learn and look forward to 'what 
might be.' Sure this is the pure gristle for cheesy rave-luv-unity flyers 
and such, but there *is* an amount of simple truth to it. This truth takes 
a while to sink in as it is certainly not the prescribed norm of 'consumer 
dissatisfaction,' but for many of us it has. And as the number of people 
around us grows, there are bound to be folks who don't fully share this 
ideal yet, but given time, it'll sink into them as well. Wherever techno 
or house or rave or trance or whatever unimportant musical style is hot 
at the time, hopefully we'll all still remember that simple ideal.

As I said, death is inevitable, and we've not been without our share. 
Though nobody here may specifically say anything, I suspect noone giggles 
when they hear about a death. I personally consider it disrespectful to 
remember someone only in death, thus unless I can comment on their life, 
I choose to remain silent, so that others who can are able to do so. My 
sympathies go out to the Chocolate Factory people for their loss, but 
what's really important is support for all the people who remain. Life 
isn't the same after someone dies, but life does go on, and if anything 
is learned, it gets stronger.

When I came back to SF after my Grandmother's funeral in Detroit, I can 
say that having people come by the bbq, just to stop by, and when seeing 
people at Eigth House, the simple kindness of them remembering my name 
and saying hello meant a lot more than the biggest truckload of sympathy 
cards. Because it's a reminder that no matter what happens, there's still 
a lot more life to live. And that respect and kindness paid to someone 
while they are living means a lot more than when they're gone.

We may not have a global solution to the problem, and I don't think there 
is any, but if my story says anything, you're all doing a great job one 
person at a time. Sorry this was so long. The topic came up and I guess I 
just needed to write this. Thanks. John.

------

On Sat, 16 Apr 1994, Atherton, Darren wrote:
> U know what that is true.. when ever stuff about violence in our community 
> has come up on this line.. people have not said much of anything-instead they 
> go on about admission prices and smoked out locations+ i think we need to 
> start thinking about what is goin on in this culture of ours and talk more 
> about how we can keep violence and hate away from the raving experience 
> because it has been creeping it's way in like almost every where else in this 
> state/country..

>  To which Steve Saeedi said: 
> > ....  If you
> > want to talk about love, why is it that when I posted about someone getting
> > shot in front of Sound Factory last week, no one gave a rat's ass about it,
> > but talked about their favourite homebrew party instead?......

And Larry Ching wrote:
>  Over the last two years , there have been a few tragic incidents where
> ravers have been killed , and there has always been some mourning here
> on SFRaves. Obviously , if the shooting actually occured , and if someone
> had actually been hurt or killed at the Sound Factory , it seems that  
> nobody on this list knows the person or even if the tragedy occured. 

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From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 06:26:51 1994
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From: Courtney Love-Cobain  <payn@scf.usc.edu>
Message-Id: <199404171326.GAA26868@aludra.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: This Months WiReD
To: chinacat@netcom.com (J. Petersen)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 06:26:45 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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> It would be great to get the ravers together with the Rainbows,
> but I would feel terrible if it in any way detracted from the
> Rainbow experience. I am afraid of the prospect of tons of
> ravers descending on a Rainbow Gathering without first being
> fully informed what the Rainbows believe in and what they
> are looking for out of their Gathering.

Well, the whole point of the zippie movement, supposedly, is
uniting the ravers and the "crusties." If they've worked out
something with the Rainbows and explained to them the benefits
(both to the ravers and the Rainbows, presumably) of having a 
bunch of ravers come over with high-tech gizmos and loud music,
then they're thinking the same way as you are. Hopefully, a
group made up of wandering post-hippies as well as ravers will
know how to handle this all properly.

> If it happens, it will be quite an experience!  :-)

I agree.



From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 08:51:12 1994
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From: "Atherton, Darren" <datherton@EA.COM>
To: SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Cc: "Smith, Andrea" <asmith@ea.com>
Subject: Respect for the Living (was Sound Factor
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Well for one thing if you are a promoter you could think twice about where 
you are going to throw a party. Don't get wrong i know that their is no real 
way of predicting a safe location but you could think twice about throwing a 
party at let's say locations like Hunters point. Yep all the raves in the 
world won't stop humans so called unstopable need to C:/hate/kill/control 
one another. 

But hay some of our closest musical cousins like - hip-hop- 
share similarities to us like the way they dress and as of recently the 
places they go. Listen and look closely at what hip hop is saying to the 
world i know it has its good points too but most of it is pure anger.. Do you 
feel that what we have been apart of could in some way have an impact on 
that generation of kids? All you have to do is pick up mags like URB and you 
can see the anger in the eyes in the hip hop ads right next to reviews of 
parties of smileing ravers. 

i don't know what i am going to do change 
anythang other then remain open and free of hostility. But it is O.K. to 
chat about life/death here. Your right we all face it in its many forms. And 
i think in some way it helps others on this line to realize that there is 
more to this then drugs and flashing laser beams.   
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY FROM: Atherton, Darren
Return-Path: <SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 00:59:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: JMRTNKO DSGN ETC SFCA <martinko@netcom.com>
Subject: Respect for the Living (was Sound Factory...)
To: ezzevvravess <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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Well, what are you gonna do? At the risk of sounding cynical, all the 
raves in the world won't stop senseless violence. And even if it could, 
it can't stop death. Life is a fragile thing and nobody gave you a 
guarrantee that it would be either long or good (the two not necessarily 
going hand-in-hand). Heartless? I don't think so. I can't do anything for 
the woman killed or any of the other people I hear about. I *can* do 
something for myself and the people I love to make sure that if these 
lives do (regrettably) turn out to be short, that they were at least *good*.

My grandmother died last month and they guy who was in all the papers a 
couple weeks ago after he was stabbed to death in the Haight was Carmen's 
friend Justin who spent his last afternoon on my couch before heading 
back up there. So, sorry to be selfish, but I've had my share of death 
this month. I don't want sympathies, nor does Carmen. Long or short, they 
both had good lives mostly due to the people around them, and that's what 
we want. Good people and good friends, because that's what matters and 
what should be remembered, not an obituary.

As far as preventing violence, I'll pat everyone's back and say we've 
already done more than a herd of legislators, lawyers and cops. For 
whatever reason, we bring together hundreds, sometimes thousands of
people of all kinds weekly without incident. How many events or 
activities can you say that about? Our goals seem simple enough: to use 
our individual talents and desire to celebrate this little piece of life 
we have and to share it with and connect it to others. Instead of dwelling  
on the past and 'what might have been' we learn and look forward to 'what 
might be.' Sure this is the pure gristle for cheesy rave-luv-unity flyers 
and such, but there *is* an amount of simple truth to it. This truth takes 
a while to sink in as it is certainly not the prescribed norm of 'consumer 
dissatisfaction,' but for many of us it has. And as the number of people 
around us grows, there are bound to be folks who don't fully share this 
ideal yet, but given time, it'll sink into them as well. Wherever techno 
or house or rave or trance or whatever unimportant musical style is hot 
at the time, hopefully we'll all still remember that simple ideal.

As I said, death is inevitable, and we've not been without our share. 
Though nobody here may specifically say anything, I suspect noone giggles 
when they hear about a death. I personally consider it disrespectful to 
remember someone only in death, thus unless I can comment on their life, 
I choose to remain silent, so that others who can are able to do so. My 
sympathies go out to the Chocolate Factory people for their loss, but 
what's really important is support for all the people who remain. Life 
isn't the same after someone dies, but life does go on, and if anything 
is learned, it gets stronger.

When I came back to SF after my Grandmother's funeral in Detroit, I can 
say that having people come by the bbq, just to stop by, and when seeing 
people at Eigth House, the simple kindness of them remembering my name 
and saying hello meant a lot more than the biggest truckload of sympathy 
cards. Because it's a reminder that no matter what happens, there's still 
a lot more life to live. And that respect and kindness paid to someone 
while they are living means a lot more than when they're gone.

We may not have a global solution to the problem, and I don't think there 
is any, but if my story says anything, you're all doing a great job one 
person at a time. Sorry this was so long. The topic came up and I guess I 
just needed to write this. Thanks. John.

------

On Sat, 16 Apr 1994, Atherton, Darren wrote:
> U know what that is true.. when ever stuff about violence in our community 
> has come up on this line.. people have not said much of anything-instead
they 
> go on about admission prices and smoked out locations+ i think we need to 
> start thinking about what is goin on in this culture of ours and talk more 
> about how we can keep violence and hate away from the raving experience 
> because it has been creeping it's way in like almost every where else in
this 
> state/country..

>  To which Steve Saeedi said: 
> > ....  If you
> > want to talk about love, why is it that when I posted about someone
getting
> > shot in front of Sound Factory last week, no one gave a rat's ass about
it,
> > but talked about their favourite homebrew party instead?......

And Larry Ching wrote:
>  Over the last two years , there have been a few tragic incidents where
> ravers have been killed , and there has always been some mourning here
> on SFRaves. Obviously , if the shooting actually occured , and if someone
> had actually been hurt or killed at the Sound Factory , it seems that  
> nobody on this list knows the person or even if the tragedy occured. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     John A. Martinko, west desk chief, Illegibility Engineering Division
      <martinko@netcom.com>  mmoooon...yipyipyipyipyip...uhhuh...uhhuh...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 09:59:07 1994
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From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404171659.JAA17261@well.sf.ca.us>
To: martinko@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  Respect for the Living (was Sound Factory...)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>re: JMRTNKO's excellent rant about Carmen & Justin

What he said!  Rave culture is still the best thing to hit the civilized
world in decades.  things are going ok.  entropy ain't all that easy to
overcome.

my son, dj buck, hung around w/ justin quite abit, and he was pretty shook
about it.  i saw his face just after he found out.  that was more real than
any online ranting i've seen inawhile.

peach

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 11:23:14 1994
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From: Sun Kim <sunkim@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Christian Raves?
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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Steve Saeedi said:

>I'm rather sick of all this garbage about love, peace, & harmony from many
>of the raver community myself.  Why?  Because they're so unapproachable.
>How many times I have ran into many of them at parties, having already
>introduced myself at a previous party, then to have to remind them of 
>who I am;  Again!

Why are you equating someone forgetting your name with "this garbage 
about love, peace, & harmony."  I have met plenty of people that I forget 
their names but that doesn't mean I appreciate them being there.  
Yesterday when I went to the Organic party at GG Park I met a lot of 
people from the last Full Moon that I did not remember their names for.  
I remember most faces but you meet so many people and/or high that it's 
very difficult to remember all the names.  

The names I tend to remember are the people who have a deep personal 
meaning to me.  I met someone at Organic named Casper that I will not 
forget because she was so kind to me.  A random act of kindness that just 
bewildered me and made me so happy that a stranger could be so nice. 

I know that not everyone that goes to a rave has the ideal of "love, 
peace, and harmony."  It's a personal meaning for each person that 
attends.  I know some people just go for the drugs or for the music.  
It's up to the individual to decide if want to be open and giving.  

Sun.


From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 13:53:24 1994
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From: THE Mike <ez040312@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: This Months WiReD
To: "J. Petersen" <chinacat@netcom.com>
Cc: Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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>general discussion of people not knowing what the Rainbow gathering is 
all about...

I was wondering-since I'm not one of those enlightened-- What *is* the 
purpose of the Rainbow gathering? Just curious.

Thanks,

Mike	<masolis@ucdavis.edu>
"Yes, I is a college student."

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 16:20:33 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Good Housekeeping...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

***** "It ain't over yet muthaf*ckas!" - Ice Cube *****

Good Housekeeping was, if nothing else, a chance to make a change...with
that said I wanna thank the following for making GH (Good Housekeeping)
everything we wanted to be, and more:

Alfie, James, Harry Who, Kyla, Jason (Sacramento OG Posse), The Doug
Ellington Quintet (yeah, the grand nephew of Duke Ellington...), Loren,
Charlotte, Josh, Swing Kid (Larry),Neon Leon, Mark Farina, Ron Ciron, Toph,
Brad, Geoff White (my MAN), Moni (monicat - > I like Moni better, much more
*flavor*), Tom, Larry C., Jeff, Lisa, Preston, Julianna, Barbara, Gina,
Aida, Tammy, Erin, Tony, Roy, Zoe, Sharon (Fremont), Lee Fogel, Adrian,
Andrea, Rob, Ron, Mike, Kari, Tommy, Marina, Tony, Kelly G., Kelly (Tasti
Box), Na Na & Sig Other, Capn. Crunch, Joe Harp, Michelle Harp, Tunni,
Traci B. Fierce,  and anyone else I forgot to mention...Thanks for making
Good Housekeeping all THAT.

Onto FLAVOR!!!!

Audi 5,
John

P.S.  I talked with an SFR today who is a lurker.  I forgot your name, but
enjoyed our conversation.  Please contact me via e-mail.  You are fucking
right on!!!!

P.S.S.  I really enjoyed doing GH.  And although we did not get the numbers
we wished we had gotten, we did have the vibe goin' on....and THAT is THE
most important thing.  I cannot thank all those who attended, enough for
stopping by and saying Hello.  This year has just begun, and some day the
*TRUTH* will be told, but that time is not now.  For now however there are
bigger mountains to conquer, and a bigger vibe to achieve.  The next few
weeks will be my time off.  The weeks after that will be my time on.  The
next level cannot be stopped.  Mediocrity will be confronted, challenged,
and defeated.  All people who front will be outed, so keep the shit real!
Anything less is a waste!!!!

Peace and keep everything *REAL*.
All Love,
John

"It ain't over yet...."

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 17:16:51 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 17:16:45 -0700
In-Reply-To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
       "Re: Sound Factory Shooting" (Apr 16,  8:49am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Sound Factory Shooting
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

On Apr 16,  8:49am, Larry asked:
}  As far as I remember , there was still a matter of wether the incident
} had actually occured or not. Weren't we waiting for someone to confirm
} the shooting? Looking at my old mail , it seems that no one confirmed it.

I'll confirm that it had happened - I was working late at Wired (on
2nd street near Bryant) and as I was leaving I heard sirens, so I
decided to see what was going on.  There were 3 fire engines and
4 squad cars outside of the club, that whole block of Harrison was
closed off, and everyone was outside.  The crowd looked like the
typical Sound Factory crowd, not Wicked which I thought might be there 
that night.  Anyways, as I turned around I asked someone on the street
what had happened and they said there had been a shooting, but that's
all I heard of it.

	Brian


From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 21:11:15 1994
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From: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
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Subject: Religion, respect, and "the scene"
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 21:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <199404161059.DAA14337@mail.netcom.com> from "Steve Saeedi" at Apr 16, 94 03:57:43 am
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> >What Christianity is is determined by the
> >people that practice it, and that has been an overwhelmingly shameful
> >legacy of corruption, oppression, hatred, and destruction.
> 
> Unlike Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddism, ...

All organized religions are structures whose purpose is to maintain
themselves by controlling the behavior of others.  The easiest way is
to view anyone not part of your cult as inferior.  From there, it is
easy to justify harming or killing them, because you are better than them
and are justified in deciding their fate.  This is an explicit tenet
of the major messianic religions (Islam, Christianity), and is an
easy step that has often been taken from other religions (Confucianism,
Hinduism, the Sikhs).

Someone brought up the difference between religion and spirituality,
which is important.  Religion is a power structure, spirituality an
individual experience.  Religion purposely confuses the two in an
effort to ensnare people who have experienced spirituality outside its
confines.  ("Don't you see, that was the Lord telling you to quit
shooting up.  And He also says...")

> >Besides, the Bible is very clear on how one must be intolerant to be
> >Christian, even to the point of killing those who don't practice its
> >arcane rituals of daily life.
> 
> Which Bible are you referring to?  Can you cite a source?

Um, all of Leviticus, to start?  "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to
live," etc.?

I've heard some people say that those were directions to the Jews way
back in BC and don't apply now, but they're still used to justify
hatred and oppression -- which is my point.

> >I believe that if we want to build a community based on love, trust, and
> >transcendence through trance (not to mention indulgence), we ought not
> >to handicap ourselves by starting from a belief that is based on fear of
> >eternal punishment and dependence on misogynist authority.
> 
> I certainly don't want to live my life transcending through trance.

I only go out about once a month, but it's still important to me.  If
it's not important at all to you, why rave?  I'm not sure I understand
you here.

> If you
> want to talk about love, why is it that when I posted about someone getting
> shot in front of Sound Factory last week, no one gave a rat's ass about it,
> but talked about their favourite homebrew party instead?  Didn't _you_ care
> enough to respond?  What happened?

Mourning for the dead achieves nothing, as JMAR so eloquently stated.
The past is the past, and cannot be erased.  What we can do is to build
a mobile community of TAZs within which we can keep BS like that from
happening -- and we have.  I can remember two deaths that occurred during
actual raves in the past year or so, and in each case, we've learned 
more about how to keep ourselves safe.  What's the SF homicide rate in
the neighborhoods most of us rave in between midnight and 7 AM?  Damn
high -- and of the two deaths I remember, one was in Santa Cruz and the
other in Santa Clara.

If people can be made to feel guilt over something they had nothing to
do with and could not have prevented, they can be simultaneously
controlled by those instilling the guilt and distracted from the
actual solution.  "Jesus died for your sins."

> You're sure quick to respond to anti-christian gobbley gook, finding some
> easy target to vent your frustrations on.  Do you think _all_ Christians
> blindly listen to the bable of the first reverend that comes along and then
> go out and kill the neighbor Planned Parenthood doctor?

No, I do not.  I don't judge you based on the actions of others.  What
I am saying is that, to me, a belief system that causes most people
(hundreds of millions!) to become willfully ignorant and hate-filled is
not worth salvaging or supporting, even implicitly, no matter what
some people might tell me it "really" means.

This is why I'm an anarchist -- government seems to always end up
screwing over the people (for instance, me) despite the best
intentions of its founders -- but that's another topic for another
time.

> I'm rather sick of all this garbage about love, peace, & harmony from many
> of the raver community myself.  Why?  Because they're so unapproachable.
> How many times I have ran into many of them at parties, having already
> introduced myself at a previous party, then to have to remind them of who I
> am;  Again!

I remember faces but I'm terrible at names.  I don't think I've met you,
though.

I agree that people can still be unapproachable, especially at
massives.  This is why I enjoy the UG parties net.people have thrown,
because the community is small enough that I can meet, remember, and
talk to people.  We have a long way to go before we live up to
its ideals, but at least the ideals are good, and progress is
happening.

> So, you want to talk about love, then you can start by doing the hardest
> thing first;  Love a Christian!

When I meet people, I start with respect, which can descend to tolerance
(or worse), or ascend to love.  Your group identification doesn't matter
to me except as it affects your actions.

// g

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 22:55:17 1994
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From: tazzleberry <tess@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: evolution/grand canyon
To: carmela@umich.edu
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, carmela@umich.edu
In-Reply-To: <Mailstrom.1.053UM.35513.-3114.carmela@c.imap.itd.umich.edu>
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planet 6 sound 


On Sat, 16 Apr 1994 carmela@umich.edu wrote:

> 
> 
> hey now,
> 
>         could someone please fill me in on all this talk im hearing
> about some massive 6-day shin-dig going down at the grand canyon
> supposedly, sometime in august?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks 8)
> 
> sunshyne
> 
we've been getting similar info---but more along the lines of four 
corners,not grand canyon.> > 

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 17 23:45:18 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404180643.XAA09827@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: A chance to check out Matther Fox
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

A bunch of people from matthew fox' organization were
at a church that I attend (unfortunately I wasn't there
at the time) today, anyway There are several oppertunities
to hear him speak...




Matthew Fox will be speaking on Ritual
TOMORROW (monday)at 9:30 a.m. 


At Holy Names College in Oakland
Heafy hall

for info call
lauri zook
(510)436-1046

also

Matthew Fox and Tom Hayden will be speaking on
Politics and Spirituality
26 April 7:30 p.m. Sky Room  @ Holy Names College

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 01:02:50 1994
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From: deaks@netcom.com (Ernie Deakyne)
Message-Id: <199404180804.BAA14859@netcom8.netcom.com>
Subject: Big Sur 'Natives'
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 01:04:02 -0700 (PDT)
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  Unfortunatley for me, it's a two hour commute to check out any parties 
up in the city, however I have had the chance to experience the Big Sur 
Natives....

  On Saturday night me and some friends all went to a party, hung out for 
a while until someone suggested we go to the Natives.  We all live in 
Monterey so Big Sur is only a 30 min trip.  Anyways, I was stoked to go 
but a bit tweaked. ;)

  Anyways, we get there around 11:30.  My friend informs me it's "Just 
like a rave."  But it was much more of a tribal gathering then a rave.  
Lots of people I know are milling around an open fire while the drummers 
are going crazy inside.  I notice the inside of the River Inn is packed 
with people so I go on in and begin to dance.  

  It was jammin.  Ive seen some guys play bongos at raves before, but 
this was intense, four drummers and various other people with different 
percussion instruments.  Each person was in a trance but somehow the 
music flowed of their hands like magic.  I took the whole image into my 
head and began to smile BIG :)  Infact, I didn't stop smiling for the 
rest of show, which unfortunatley ended at 12.  Of course, we got in free 
for being late, but I would of had no problem paying $10+ (It's only three)

  Anyways, this was a very inspirational show for me.  I woke up the next 
morning not fealing like left over chinese food, but rather energized.  
I ended up jogging 12 miles around Carmel and Monterey basking in the sun.
The vibe from the 100 or so people there was great, everyone was having a 
great time and smiling at each other.  

  This was my first trip to see the Big Sur Natives, and I think I am 
going to start making it a regular occourance.  It happens every two 
weeks at the River Inn (Just take Highway One, You'll see it) But it's 
happening next week too, so I don't know the exact schedule :| 

Btw, this is my first post to SFraves.  Been reading messages for a 
couple months but since I'm just on the edge of the scene, I dont get to 
participate in much.  Oh well, I'll be going to USF next year, then 
things will be different :)

-=*DJ Deaks*=-



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 02:36:03 1994
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From: Hans Peasoup <ez040308@chip.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion, respect, and "the scene"
To: JUMP IN THE FIRE <grigsby@agames.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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I guess this is the age old argument- what ideal religion has turned 
into.  I don't think it's going to be solved...
But there are a few fundamental things everyone is overlooking, that i 
think need to be expressed.  As a Christain i can only speak 
confidently about Christianity, but i think all relegions experience the 
same lack of justice. 
I'm confident that Christ should be the center of a "Christain's" faith 
and life.  If that's the case then Christianity should be something 
different than what the 'church' presents it as.  Christ was truly an 
anarchist of sorts, who rebelled and opposed the power structure of the 
Jewish law.  He claimed to be the provider of Life.  But that Life he 
preached was not any external power structure, it was and is a spiritual 
experience- and a personal one.  One needs to separate what Christ 
taught with what the Church presents, because the Church is human and 
humans distort.  No matter what anyone says- Christainity is only about 
Christ- nothing else.  He provides a personal experience with God, and 
that experience is separate from any one or anything else!  Perhaps 
religion does purposefully confuse spirituality with sick power 
structure- indeed, that's what Ceasar did when he forced Christainity as 
a national religion...  but Christ is still Christ, and despite human 
actions, his purpose to provide us with a new spiritual life remains...

Christianity should be equated with Jesus and his actions, his life, not 
with the modern church.  He loved completely, he was in perfect 
harmony...  he should be the image one sees when one thinks of  
Christainity, but unfortunately he's not.

I guess one just has to just quit judging others, and start to judge 
themselves.

There's the same mixture of love and selfishness in raves as there is 
in the rest of reality... 

so be it.

--hans
     

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 03:07:02 1994
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From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Basic frustration...
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Well, Basics marks I think my fourth attempt in a row to go dancing over 
the past few weeks (others have been 21+, busted, or unfindable).

Made the trek from Berkeley to Bonny Doon, noticing ONE cop car while 
passing the small group of parked cars.  Kept going, turned at the next 
street, only to find Martin and a small group of others waiting with the 
sound system still in the van.  They said they were waiting for the cops 
to leave before they set anything up.  By this time it was about 1:30.  
Passing the parked cars on the way back, there were close to 10 (TEN!) 
cop cars flashing pretty blue and red lights.  

Went to a friend's place in Santa Cruz to wait, called the info line 
about 45 minutes later, and it said the party was busted, maybe would be 
moving to San Fran.  

After the trek DOWN from San Fran, we weren't about to go back up there 
to hunt for a wharehouse.  So what happened?  DID it happen?

-Seth
//////////{{{{{{{{{{((((((((([[[[[[[[[232]]]]]]]]]])))))))))}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\
PS- never trust anyone who calls themself a zippy :)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 05:41:37 1994
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From: Tanya Smith <tmsmith@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion, respect, and "the scene"
To: JUMP IN THE FIRE <grigsby@agames.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404180410.AA01861@agames.agames.com>
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Institutionalized religion and personal spirituality is not the same.  I 
happen to find the Bible as I interpret it a meaningful and important 
part of my faith experience.  
The difficulty rises when one attacks the tenets of the faith rather than 
those who pervert, distort it to their advantage.  Lets face it, 
institutions, in general, are corrupt.  Our government has succeeded in 
turning the Constitution into a means of controlling the masses.  TV 
evangelists have succeeded in turning the Bible into a method of sucking 
the money and life out of little old ladies.  UNC at Chapel Hill has 
succeeded in turning an academic atmosphere into an athletic fanatisism 
where sports players have no financial ceiling and receive absurd amounts 
of money, facilities, etc for their use.  However, in and of itself, the 
Constitution is an innocent, if not beneficial, doctrine.  In and of 
itself, the Bible is a positive book, and in and of itself, UNC Chapel 
Hill has a very good academic program.
Please don't scrutinize me because I happen to believe in our 
Constitution, in and of itself, because I find value in the Bible, in and 
of itself, and because I support academic environments, in and of themselves.
Tanya

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 07:05:17 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Good HousekKeeping Props...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

You know, whenever you start doin' those credit listings you ALWAYS leave
people off you wish you didn't.  I am glad that corrections, addendums can
be sent quickly in our virtual environment....with THAT said I wanna give
*FULL* uncensored Good Housekeeping props to the following important
people:

Sue (Alfie's Sig Other) who helped in ways to innumerous to mention.  She
did everything we did, and some.  Kept that fire lit under our asses when
we needed it, and when we didn't :)  Love ya Sue!!!

Bryce Ryan & Ethan Miller - They provided the *PROPER* kickoff to what
would be a wonderful party by giving us a most important ingredient: SOND!
That shit was so pumped the first time out, people who missed it missed a
real treat.  Especially with the boys spinning!  Incredible sound,
incredible guys!

These will be the last shouts out, so IF I missed you this time, I won't
the next time!!!

Pax,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 09:26:14 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404181625.AA05649@pilot.njin.net>
To: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Christian raves?
In-Reply-To: <9404160141.AA00208@agames.agames.com>
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

JUMP IN THE FIRE writes:
 > I believe that if we want to build a community based on love, trust, and
 > transcendence through trance (not to mention indulgence), we ought not
 > to handicap ourselves by starting from a belief that is based on fear of
 > eternal punishment and dependence on misogynist authority.

Bravo!

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 09:33:00 1994
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From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Message-Id: <9404181633.AA11517@bethe.ucdavis.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: god & community (short)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



>I believe that if we want to build a community based on love, trust, and
>transcendence through trance (not to mention indulgence), we ought not
>to handicap ourselves by starting from a belief that is based on fear of
>eternal punishment and dependence on misogynist authority.
>// g

My community accepts that faith is personal.  An individual choice.
However odd it may seem, I can envision a belief in God that involves
"fear of eternal punishment" which has deep personal meaning. 

I respect the fact that words can't always convey a person's faith or
spirituality.  I trust that others will respect me.
It ain't my job to pick the handicaps...  

Dave


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 09:43:31 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404181643.AA06391@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Sound Factory Shooting
In-Reply-To: <199404161549.IAA26801@netcom9.netcom.com>
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	<199404161549.IAA26801@netcom9.netcom.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I don't recall hearing that the Sound Factory shooting occurred at a
rave. Did it?

I have a friend who is all twisted up inside because she hears about
all the killings and the pollution and corruption and the myriad of
bad things that happen in the world. Just about everything she hears
affects her personally. It makes her very unhappy and her anxiety is
killing her.

So where does one draw the line? What things may we see as unrelated
to us, and what things must make us experience angst?  What things
must make us angry? How related to us must something be before we're
obligated to get involved?

Personally I think a lot of tolerance is in order. I know a lot of
people for whom every little bit of happiness is a thing to be
cherished. Many of my friends are struggling to get their own life in
order, much less save the world.

How does that saying go? "Spend a day in their shoes."

Sean


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 11:31:29 1994
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From: robertj308@aol.com
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 14:28:34 EDT
Subject: Bonny Doomed 2 (complete Text)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Basics Busted or Bonny Doomed

The raver kid in the "Rolling Stone" said "The cops can't do anything because
it's on private property. They just give tickets,...........it's the best
party in Northern California." Well, the last thing Santa Cruz wants is to
become a Rave Mecca. It's already the city "that time forgot," meaning it
became the Sun City for every aging 60's hippie still living in America.
'

So much for pissing off the police, and throwing down the gauntlet. I'm sure
the article reached members of the police and city government of Santa Cruz.
Since it has gone "public" they no longer have the option of looking the
other way while the ravers play.

As we drove up to Basics, from a distance I saw the red lights flashing.
There must have been 15 police cars (Highway Patrol) not city police.  People
were being pulled over, flashlights in their eyes. I can only guess that
people were arrested for drug or alcohol possession.

Being older, I felt strangely alien, or protected as I walked around amid the
police cars along the road. I thought about the British Rave Police, and
realized that raving is a counter-cultural revolution, and as such, the
police and city governments, will rightfully interpret it as a threat. Can
you envision the day in sunny California, when you get 2-5 years for putting
on, or attending a rave? The English posse, Garth, Jeno, Thomas,etc. left
England to find a safe haven to Rave, (which the club scene provides)
however, I think we're just beginning to see the kind of police tactics they
were trying to escape.       Robertj..........MRP

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 12:17:49 1994
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From: robertj308@aol.com
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 15:15:10 EDT
Subject: "House"-Chicago Style Stiffed (review)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Chicago Style Stiffed--

Alright, so I'm a tiny bit prejudiced, being from Chicago. But, I think SF
missed another extraordinary opportunity to experience Chicago House music. A
few months back, Luciana (the promoter) put  "La Pleisure de Vivre." She flew
3 Chicago  Dj's out here to spin. (Remember that the Rolling Stone article
cited Europe's almost religious appreciation for Chicago House music.)  The
party was attended by approximately 700 people, and someone from Sfraves
reviewed it. 

Unfortunately, only about 100 people showed up. not to say it wasn't a great
party, and I did get to meet "Ahmeet," (msp?) from sfraves. It was  the 174
King street, without the crowd, and without the smoke. Plenty of room to
dance. And the music..........great music!!!

Chicago House,  is often distinguished by it's black female  rhythm and blues
vocals, or it's more rhymic jazz baselines and drums instead of a "thud,
thud, thud." It is also driven a bit more by piano and organ instrumentals,
than synthesized techno computer stuff.  The Aretha Franklin "Deeper Love,"
falls into this category.

Anyway, Luciana said she printed 8,000 flyers, and had hoped to build on the
700 peole who attended the previous party. So why didn't they come? Were
people at other parties? Bad Promotion? Bad Promoter? Bad Location?
Snobbishness?  "E" all of the above?

I thought Luciana was a wonderful person, who in addition to the thought of
making money, honestly wanted to bring music she loved to SF. I never saw
someone having  so much fun, while they were losing so much money!!!

For all the past complaining I've heard on the Net about the "same dj's,"it
was a shame more people did not avail themselves of something different. I
don't know if there will be another  Chicago Style party soon, but judging
from Saturdays turnout, I suspect NOT. Which is too bad, IMHO. Robertj....MRP

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 12:32:51 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 12:32:38 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: robertj308@aol.com, acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: "This will stop"
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


To make a long story short, I saw cops on the way in, but they seemed
to just be ticketing cars in the main lot.  There was only one cop car
on the way in.  While down on the beach, at around 1 AM, the cops came
around to each group of people, shining flashlights and told us that
the beach was closed and that we would have to leave.  There were also
cop cars up on the tops of the cliffs, shining bright spotlights down
on the beach.  Walking out I saw four or five cop cars in the main
lot.  Ethan and I ran into Tony on the way back to my car.  We talked
to him for a minute and started up Bonny Doon Road.  A cop drove up,
leaned out the window, and asked Tony what was in the box.  He said
records, and the cop said "please stand over there, I want to talk to
you".

We (around eight of us) decided to hang out and see what went down.
Again to cut to the chase, after establishing that the records were
his and that he had no official connection with the group throwing the
event, the cop asked us if we were with Tony.  We said yes, and the
cop said "well, then, gather around, you might as well all hear this".

I can't recall precisely what all was said, but here were some of the
high points.

This will stop.  The next step for us is to set up sobriety
checkpoints on both sides of Highway 1 and stop all cars coming in or
out.  If we need to, we can cite each individual on the beach after 10
PM for trespassing at $250 apiece.  The residents here have been
tolerating these parties for a long time and they can't happen here
any more.  Find a new place for them.  The board of supervisors has
told the sheriff that this can't continue.  Even liberals support
stopping these parties, if you had seen the beach after the last
party that was here, you'd understand why.  Not to mention that
someone ripped up a fence in Davenport for firewood during the last
party.  10% of the people cause 100% of the problem.

I could go on, but if you could have seen the resolve in the face of
the cop, you'd understand exactly what he was saying.  There will be
no more parties at night at Bonny Doon.

Now, I did ask him point blank if daytime no alcohol public free
parties would be OK, and he said if it was small, that wouldn't be a
big deal.  "300 or 400 people, you'd probably want to check with park
& rec, and call the sheriff and let them know so they could come out
and make sure that people weren't bringing alcohol or glass out on to
the beach."

I think it might be the right time to have a daytime party there,
don't flyer, have SFR do it, bring lots of garbage bags, have everyone
who comes fill up one bag of garbage and clean the place up.  It's
still fairly cool there even when it's clear and sunny.

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 12:33:52 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 12:33:47 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Basics
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


oh, yeah, and Basics did eventually move to a classic city renegade
location (intentionally vague), and went off there with about 75
people.  this is secondhand from people who were at the Organic GGP
party.



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 12:36:38 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 12:36:25 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: datherton@ea.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, asmith@ea.com
In-Reply-To: "Atherton, Darren"'s message of Sun, 17 Apr 94 08:53:00 PDT <2DB15B5A@pcsmtp.ea.com>
Subject: Respect for the Living (was Sound Factor
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


>But hay some of our closest musical cousins like - hip-hop- share
>similarities to us like the way they dress and as of recently the
>places they go. Listen and look closely at what hip hop is saying to
>the world i know it has its good points too but most of it is pure
>anger.. Do you feel that what we have been apart of could in some way
>have an impact on that generation of kids? All you have to do is pick
>up mags like URB and you can see the anger in the eyes in the hip hop
>ads right next to reviews of parties of smileing ravers.

Maybe I'm just confused, but I always thought that hip-hop was stuff
like Digable Planets and Arrested Development and Us3.  I've never
gotten any anger vibes on anything I consider hip-hop.  Now, gangsta
rap, that's a whole different story.

Anyone got the true low-down on these genres?
Bob


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:11:49 1994
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From: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
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Subject: Bonny Doomed
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 13:11:11 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9404181428.tn03275@aol.com> from "robertj308@aol.com" at Apr 18, 94 02:28:34 pm
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> The raver kid in the "Rolling Stone" said "The cops can't do anything because
> it's on private property. They just give tickets,...........it's the best
> party in Northern California."

I hope everyone has learned a lesson from this naive kid.  Proving your
cool to J. Random Journalist by citing specific future UG events will
ruin them completely.  Keep the illegal stuff out of the media, hey?

Word of mouth travels plenty fast.  Use it.

// g

PS: I'm not saying people should be clandestine -- talking about the
scene, the legal events, the vibe, etc. is good -- just use some damn
sense.  Don't tell a reporter anything you wouldn't shout out over the
PA at Candlestick during a playoff game.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:29:06 1994
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Message-Id: <9404181328.ZM25053@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 13:28:39 -0700
In-Reply-To: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
        ""This will stop"" (Apr 18, 12:32pm)
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Sorry to hear about what happened at Bonny Doon, but I guess it couldn't
last forever.  The late October FMR was my last one there (of the 'classic'
BD period :) and that was certainly a great one.

But I dig the idea of daytime parties, although the lack of shade is a 
problem.  I'd love to do either a dawn to noon or 3 pm to twilight kind
of event there, though.  Especially combined with a cleanup like we've
talked about.  I'll bring my daytime house mix bag :)

phred

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:43:52 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 13:34:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
To: JUMP IN THE FIRE <grigsby@agames.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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i think we should all write rolling stone and let them know what we think 
of there stupid publicity *(i haven't read the artical yet)* btw don't 
they have an email address someone could post? heheheh ...susie(:

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:45:08 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, grigsby@agames.com
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> 
> > The raver kid in the "Rolling Stone" said "The cops can't do anything because
> > it's on private property. They just give tickets,...........it's the best
> > party in Northern California."
> 
> I hope everyone has learned a lesson from this naive kid.  Proving your
> cool to J. Random Journalist by citing specific future UG events will
> ruin them completely.  Keep the illegal stuff out of the media, hey?
> 
> Word of mouth travels plenty fast.  Use it.
> 
> // g
> 
> PS: I'm not saying people should be clandestine -- talking about the
> scene, the legal events, the vibe, etc. is good -- just use some damn
> sense.  Don't tell a reporter anything you wouldn't shout out over the
> PA at Candlestick during a playoff game.


Yes it seems like the days of Full Moon Massives at Bonnie Doone are
over but I still think we can have _small_ (50 - 200) person _underground_
parties there.  Unfortunately I don't think there will be any Full Moons
there for a long time. But maybe this is good, the last FMM at Bonnie Doon
had over 3000 people and the beach was left in a mess, I think it's better
to stop them and keep the beach beautiful then to continue them and
totally trash the place.

What do you think?  Should we write an anonymous letter to the SCPD
explaining the situation and thanking [sic] them for the tolerance
that they have shown for the past 2 years?  It might go a long way to
mending some fences that the Rolling Stone article have splintered.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:47:46 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404181842.AA28857@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: grigsby@agames.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        uunet!soda.berkeley.edu!caliban@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re:  Christian raves?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

 where in the bible (regarding christianity) do you find
        support for this statement?  maybe someplace in the old
        testament, but i don't belive you can back these words
        text from the new testament.
------------------------------------------------------------------

The bible is the bible.  Next your gonna tell us that such and such
was in the writings of Paul so "i don't belive you can back these words
text from Peter"  The christian line is that the bible (which ever one
you choose) is the word of god and the collection of writings were written
and put together through divine intervention and that they stand %100 correct
as a whole because it is of and from god (funny how Gutenberg's first run
had a bunch of typos in it though).  Anyway, what differnce does it make
if "suffer not a witch to live" is in the biblical chapter of Liviticus
or Mathew?  Except maybe your gonna say because it would be before or afte
Jesus.  But the old an new testament represent the same god.

-Winston (changing my name yet again to match my login)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:48:10 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404181948.AA28885@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: grigsby@agames.com, uunet!chip.ucdavis.edu!ez040308@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Religion, respect, and "the scene"
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I guess this is the age old argument- what ideal religion has turned
into.  I don't think it's going to be solved...
But there are a few fundamental things everyone is overlooking, that i
think need to be expressed.  As a Christain i can only speak
confidently about Christianity, but i think all relegions experience the
same lack of justice.
I'm confident that Christ should be the center of a "Christain's" faith
and life.  If that's the case then Christianity should be something
different than what the 'church' presents it as.  Christ was truly an
anarchist of sorts, who rebelled and opposed the power structure of the
Jewish law.  He claimed to be the provider of Life.  But that Life he
preached was not any external power structure, it was and is a spiritual
experience- and a personal one.  One needs to separate what Christ
taught with what the Church presents, because the Church is human and
humans distort.  No matter what anyone says- Christainity is only about
Christ- nothing else.  He provides a personal experience with God, and
that experience is separate from any one or anything else!  Perhaps
religion does purposefully confuse spirituality with sick power
structure- indeed, that's what Ceasar did when he forced Christainity as
a national religion...  but Christ is still Christ, and despite human
actions, his purpose to provide us with a new spiritual life remains...
Christianity should be equated with Jesus and his actions, his life, not
with the modern church.  He loved completely, he was in perfect
harmony...  he should be the image one sees when one thinks of
Christainity, but unfortunately he's not.
I guess one just has to just quit judging others, and start to judge
themselves.

There's the same mixture of love and selfishness in raves as there is
in the rest of reality...

so be it.

--hans
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
But how do you know what christ said if "humans distort" because the bible
is bunch of different and often conflicting human accounts that were then
considered for truth and accuracy by a bunch of humans (who werent impartial
as they were all christians) and some accounts were even discarded such as
that of mary and other people.

-Winston (the man with a thousand names)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:48:15 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404181949.AA28889@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!internex.net!geoffw@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: This Months WiReD
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hey check out this month's wired the cover has a supposed "zippie"
on it and an article about the new cultural phenomenon in the UK called
zippies... funny, they still look like ravers to me :)
---------------------------------------------------------------
And the name is already taken isn't it?

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:48:19 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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U know what that is true.. when ever stuff about violence in our community
has come up on this line.. people have not said much of anything-instead they
go on about admission prices and smoked out locations+ i think we need to
start thinking about what is goin on in this culture of ours and talk more
about how we can keep violence and hate away from the raving experience
because it has been creeping it's way in like almost every where else in this
state/country..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think anyone is avoiding reality here on this list.  What else can
you say?  Oh someone got shot - just like the other couple hundred that
happend somewhere in the country.  Oh, I feel bad for that persons family
and friends.  Oh, it happened at a party, it coulda been me or someone I
care for.  None of this helps.  What helps is taking an individual 
responsability to making sure not to do something like this yourself and
to try to make sure your friends and children don't.  I would bet everyone
on this list already does that.  Anything else is preaching to the converted.

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:48:23 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!nexsys.net!geoffw@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: A chance to check out Matther Fox
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Isn't he also interviewed in one of those wonman's/pagan spirituality
movies such as "The Goddess Remembered" or "The Burning Times".

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:52:25 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
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To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com, robertj308@aol.com,
        acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu, phred@well.sf.ca.us
Subject: Re: "This will stop"
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> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Mon Apr 18 13:31 PDT 1994
> From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 13:28:39 -0700
> To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com, robertj308@aol.com,
>         acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: "This will stop"
> Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> 
> Sorry to hear about what happened at Bonny Doon, but I guess it couldn't
> last forever.  The late October FMR was my last one there (of the 'classic'
> BD period :) and that was certainly a great one.
> 
> But I dig the idea of daytime parties, although the lack of shade is a 
> problem.  I'd love to do either a dawn to noon or 3 pm to twilight kind
> of event there, though.  Especially combined with a cleanup like we've
> talked about.  I'll bring my daytime house mix bag :)
> 
> phred

Yeah, I still think we should have the daytime clean-up party.
I bet if we are small and don't pose a tremendous parking problem they might
let us stay.  But all in all I think the best remedy for the situation is
communication and letting the space rest for a while.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 13:55:42 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 13:55:25 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Susie writes:

>i think we should all write rolling stone and let them know what we think 
>of there stupid publicity *(i haven't read the artical yet)* btw don't 
>they have an email address someone could post? heheheh ...susie(:


Now please before you get all bent out of shape maybe you SHOULD read
the article first.  

According to Tamara it was written by someone who writes for Urb who
has been involved with raving for like two years or so now.

I read the article and it was quite positive and honest and well-written
and for once didn't go on and on about drug use in the scene.

It's not Rolling Stone's fault the cops found the Bonny Doon party. 
It was a combination of using the location SO many times for so many HUGE
parties and of the mess the beach was reportedly left in after the last
party there (before Basics tried it).

Face it:  you can't easily hide 700 cars and 3000 people.  It had to
give sometime.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 14:02:38 1994
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Date: 18 Apr 1994 14:01:54 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: pank floyd
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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floyd's coming to oakland soon you guys!

see da show if you can; the lights are unbelievable, plus they have some
   HUGE sound f/x  (they use a pentaphonic 5-point system all around the arena)

the animations are real good, too.

yeah, i know, it's dinosaur rock, but it's gotta be the best of the lumbering
   creatures what ever walked the earth :)

Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 14:04:27 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 14:03:08 -0700
In-Reply-To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
       "Re: Bonny Doomed" (Apr 18,  1:45pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        grigsby@agames.com
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

On Apr 18,  1:45pm, Geoff proclaimed:
} Yes it seems like the days of Full Moon Massives at Bonnie Doone are
} over but I still think we can have _small_ (50 - 200) person _underground_
} parties there.  Unfortunately I don't think there will be any Full Moons
} there for a long time. But maybe this is good, the last FMM at Bonnie Doon
} had over 3000 people and the beach was left in a mess, I think it's better
} to stop them and keep the beach beautiful then to continue them and
} totally trash the place.
} 
} What do you think?  Should we write an anonymous letter to the SCPD
} explaining the situation and thanking [sic] them for the tolerance
} that they have shown for the past 2 years?  It might go a long way to
} mending some fences that the Rolling Stone article have splintered.

The Rolling Stone article didn't do nearly as much damage it seems as 
leaving the beach trashed did.  I can't believe that the beach was left
like that after the last one.  Didn't the last people to leave feel any
obligation to leave the place as clean if not cleaner than when the 
group arrived?  Maybe they shouldn't be there - or ANYwhere else - 
if people can't control the amount of trash they leave behind.  That and
things like breaking fences for firewood... god, no wonder I haven't been
to a full moon in ages.  This group needs to do a LOT of internal
housecleaning before anything else happens.

I'd support a daytime party down there, but I don't think it'll have
much of an effect.  The damage is done.  A letter might help, but 
it takes more than words to mend fences (literally, in this case).

Sorry if I sound angry in this letter, but I am, as I and a couple
others here worked hard when parties were first being held there to
establish some sort of unwritten unspoken contract with the locals.
They held out their end of the deal, which was to do their job but not
bother us over the hill, and we failed ours, which was to hold
peaceful, nondestructive gatherings.  Look back over posts made here
during that time and this becomes abundantly clear.  At this point,
I'm on the cops' side.  Sad thing is, I think the beach could have
survived the publicity from Rolling Stone had people done enough to
act responsibly (and it wouldn't have even needed to be a majority
who acted responsibly, either.)  

End of an era.

	Brian



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 14:24:39 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 14:24:26 -0700
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Palo Alto Wetlands -- according to Brian they now station a ranger there
	at night because the rangers were so mad at how trashed the wetlands
	were after the one party that was held there.  I think in this
	case what was meant by "trashed" was that the ground was all
	torn up.

Berkeley Marina -- noise from incoming party-goers and worn-out grass
	from dancing got to the point where cops are stationed there
	to prevent parties.

Albany (??) landfill -- cops busted the last party there, not sure why.

Bonny Doon -- large amounts of trash and broken fences become the straw
	that breaks the camel's back.

So, the Bonny Doon thing wasn't exactly an isolated incident.  I know
I'm speaking to the converted here:  the vast bulk of the net-ravers
are quite contientious, but we're not the only people out there partying,
but at the same time are we required to babysit the irresponsible 
practicies of everyone?  It's good to help out but there's a limit to
how much of your brother's keeper you can be.  The Liquid Air parties
always look spotless afterwards, so I *know* that the net-ravers know
what to do with their trash and when to do it, and I'm always happy
to see it.

Even though it might not do much good in the long run a cleanup down
at Bonny Doon is still a good idea, if for no other reason than the fact
that it's the right thing to do.  The cops and the locals might not ever
forgive the ravers, but at least the birds and other animals won't have
to suffer for it.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 14:24:40 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 14:24:26 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: SCRUTON@joyce.dnet.hac.com's message of 18 Apr 1994 14:01:54 -0800 (PST) <01HBBMWVYF2Q00P862@EDEN1.HAC.COM>
Subject: pank floyd
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


the floyd shows are incredibly oversold due to massive amounts of
ticket speculation.  the sj mercury news has over 70 classified ads
for floyd tickets.  prices vary from face value to $400 each.

do not pay more than face value plus BASS fees for your ticket(s).

if no one pays outrageous ticket prices, the organized ticket
speculators (read: scalpers) will ease off, and the fans will be able
to get better seats more easily direct from BASS.

to give you an idea of the situation, the who, led zepplin, rolling
stones, even U2 --- none of them have ever even tried to play three
shows in a row at oakland stadium.  3 * 60,000 is a lot of tickets to
sell.  my personal guess is that there'll be people selling tickets
below face value in the parking lot (especially wed/thurs).

note that i also generally do not pay less than face value for a
ticket, unless it's clear that i'm buying from a scalper, in which
case he can eat the loss for all i care.  scalping hurts everyone who
has ever had an extra ticket for a show only to discover that because
of ticket speculation, massive numbers of tickets are being sold below
face, and so the ticket is worth less and sometimes worthless.

example: David Bowie, Foxboro MA, summer 1990 tickets through
Ticketron were $30.  day of show at the venue there were scalpers
offering "buy one at face, get four free".  my extra ticket was
effectively worthless.  this after the show had sold out in 20 minutes
when tickets originally went on sale.

off soapbox,
Bob

tidbit: i'll be ushering at the floyd show wednesday, actually.



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 14:25:17 1994
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From: meclay@netcom.com (Michael E. Clay)
Message-Id: <199404182126.OAA05548@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Close Encounters, Chicago &
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 14:26:18 -0700 (PDT)
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  This is my first post to this group after lurking for several months but
  I wanted to comment on a couple of observations:

  I just read how few people attended Chicago. I went to Close Encounters
  at the Haze. Except for reading past posts about how bad the Haze was
  I wouldn't have known it. This was my second time there and I had a great
  time - just gotta love the music. I did notice the small turnout however.
  If both Chicago & Close Encounters were low turnout - where was 
  everyone ?

  I did enjoy the Haze event and there were no noticable problems other
  than security confiscating pipes etc. if used in an obvious way but I
  did notice at least 2 distinct groups did I not ? ( I'm new remember )
  Group 1 are presumed Ravers (TM) dancing mid floor all smiles etc.
  Group 2 are presumed Gangers (??) mostly Hispanic, mostly stern, didn't
    seem to like the music, certainly didn't dance.
  The non mixing of these two groups seemed like potential trouble to me
  but before I get paranoid...
  Why would the group 2 gang types even bother coming to an event where
  they didn't even like the music ?  What would happen if the ravers 
  attempted to communicate with these folks and perhaps enticed more of
  them to take part and dance? These questions were just on my mind.

  Finally, I have been an electronic musician for years and was brought
  up on really spacey European electronic music T. Dream, Schulze , 
  Kraftwerk are those more commonly cited. I wondered where tastey  
  electronic music went to then I discovered house - the Orb, Orbital,
  Aphex Twin etc. and I'm home again... I'll be about and my partner and
  I are investigating the possibilities of playing live within the rave
  community.. P.S. I'm another "old guy" at 42 but most people would
  not recognize me as that age either inside or out..

  Last question : Was that an SFraver with the light stick swinging away
  at close encounters? 

  Mike

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 14:35:15 1994
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From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Message-Id: <199404182136.OAA16855@netcom12.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
To: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 14:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404182055.NAA07958@soda.berkeley.edu> from "Laura La Gassa" at Apr 18, 94 01:55:25 pm
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Laura La Gassa sez:
> 
> Susie writes:
> 
> >i think we should all write rolling stone and let them know what we think 
> >of there stupid publicity *(i haven't read the artical yet)* btw don't 
> >they have an email address someone could post? heheheh ...susie(:
> 
[...]
> 
> Face it:  you can't easily hide 700 cars and 3000 people.  It had to
> give sometime.
> 

Definantly.

Plus remember that it was [evidently... I didn't read the article] a
raver AT the party who made the incredibly stupid remark about the
party being untouchable by the cops.  I'm sure Rolling Stone would get
a good laugh out of a bunch of people writing them claiming they
weren't accurate.

-H-



-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
"Here in Singapore, if someone is observed to be acting strangely the police 
can force them to take drug tests.  That could never happen in America."
- Singapore official, in SF Chron     "And you BRAG about this?"  -Me

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 14:38:58 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 14:38:45 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago &
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Mike asks:

  >I
  >did notice at least 2 distinct groups did I not ? ( I'm new remember )
  >Group 1 are presumed Ravers (TM) dancing mid floor all smiles etc.
  >Group 2 are presumed Gangers (??) mostly Hispanic, mostly stern, didn't
  >  seem to like the music, certainly didn't dance.
  >The non mixing of these two groups seemed like potential trouble to me
  >but before I get paranoid...
  >Why would the group 2 gang types even bother coming to an event where
  >they didn't even like the music ?  

I had it explained to me like this when I was at a party two weekends
ago at the Haze, and it made perfect sense:

Those non-rave kids are mostly under 21 and, due to the stupid caberet
laws in San Francisco, really have no place to go out.  So, they
keep going to the Haze no matter WHAT is going on there because at
least they CAN go there.  They don't really care about the music or
who's DJing or whatever, it's just a place where they are allowed
entry so they can hang out, see their friends and aquaintences, and just
BE rather than sitting on a street corner where they'll get in trouble
for having no place to go.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:02:38 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404182202.AA19212@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: dead full moon sites
In-Reply-To: <199404182124.OAA11402@soda.berkeley.edu>
References: <199404182124.OAA11402@soda.berkeley.edu>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

It may just be a fact of life that when more than a certain number of
people go to a site they're going to trash it. The question is: How do
you fine tune a party like that so it doesn't get too big or stay too
small?

There was a lot of garbage on the ground after the Organic GG park
party. I cleaned up some, and noticed Bob doing the same. 
I did it for the promoters, because they spent their money and their
effort to throw that party. I did _not_ do it for the "good of rave";
people should clean up their own mess, or, like me, not make one in
the first place!

I wonder if people would act responsively if there were a _lot_ of
garbage cans around? Ideas?

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:05:25 1994
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From: child@netcom.com (Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild)
Message-Id: <199404182206.PAA14545@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Bonny Doomed
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Ok, ok, I cannot keep my fingers from not typing anymore.  Now I was at the 
last  Bonny Doon Full Moon and I stayed there till about 3pm.  Before leaving,
I helped clean the beach - the southern half.  There were many garbage bags
piled full of trash neatly piled near the main enterance.  When I left, the
beach did NOT look trashed!  That was my interpretation.  I not only looked 
for large obvious pieces of trash but picked up every cigarette butt I could
find, some which were obviously weathered so much that they didn't come from
that night.  

There was no organized concerted effort to clean the beach but several others
also started picking up trash after the music stopped.  I stopped by the
beach again at 5pm to look at it again and viewed it from the cliff in front
of the railroad tracks and from that distance, the beach looked CLEAN.  I 
know it was from a distance but I couldn't pick out any obvious large pieces
of trash in my view.

Now please somebody who actuallly inspected the beach at say 4 or 5pm please
speak up and say if the beach was trashed then or not.

According to mine eyes and some effort on my part the beach was not trashed.

Space

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:07:42 1994
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From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Message-Id: <199404182208.PAA09869@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
To: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 15:08:31 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404182055.NAA07958@soda.berkeley.edu> from "Laura La Gassa" at Apr 18, 94 01:55:25 pm
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> 
> Susie writes:
> 
> >i think we should all write rolling stone and let them know what we think 
> >of there stupid publicity *(i haven't read the artical yet)* btw don't 
> >they have an email address someone could post? heheheh ...susie(:

Laura writes:

> 
> Now please before you get all bent out of shape maybe you SHOULD read
> the article first.  
> 
> According to Tamara it was written by someone who writes for Urb who
> has been involved with raving for like two years or so now.

Let me clear up what I actually DID say: she is not involved with Urb at all.
She is the music editor of LA Weekly. What I did say is that she wrote a very
informed article on the LA scene about three years ago. I had not read the
Rolling Stone article so I couldn't comment on its contents but I wanted to 
point out that she had at least been writing about this subject for a few 
years and wasn't just some writer who just stumbled upon and infiltrated the
scene.

Since my post I have had occasion to read the Rolling Stone article. I felt
it was somewhat irresponsible journalism and basically nothing new from what
was covered in the mainstream press within the last two years.


Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
...............................................................................

trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................




From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:10:16 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:09:26 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: meclay@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Close Encounters, Chicago & -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	First of all, I apologize for making this broad generalization, but
I've found that while "ravers" (TM) :) generally go to a party to
dance, enjoy the music, and have a great time, group 2, the
"gangstas" that I've seen at parties seem to be more interested in 2
things: 
1. scoping out any females in the crowd and attempting to victimize
them.
2. making a profit by selling drugs.
	I'll be the first to admit that not all gang members are like this,
but when I say "gangstas", I'm referring to the people that you can
always tell are like this because you see them stand in the middle of
a party in a circle and project negative energy and attitude in all
directions around them.  They don't come to a party to contribute to
the vibe, or to show love for any other person; their goals seem to
be more selfishly driven.  Maybe it's wrong for me to make a
generalization like this, but those are the only reasons I can see
for that type of people to come to a party.

>>> Michael E. Clay <meclay@netcom.com>  4/18/94, 03:26pm >>>

I did notice at least 2 distinct groups did I not ? ( I'm new
remember )
  Group 1 are presumed Ravers (TM) dancing mid floor all smiles etc.
  Group 2 are presumed Gangers (??) mostly Hispanic, mostly stern,
didn't
    seem to like the music, certainly didn't dance.
  The non mixing of these two groups seemed like potential trouble to
me
  but before I get paranoid...
  Why would the group 2 gang types even bother coming to an event
where
  they didn't even like the music ?


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:21:57 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404182221.PAA19546@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Bonnie doon
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 15:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
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I lived in santa cruz for most of the 80's and there have always been 
drug parties at bonnie doon, especially during spring and summer.
They began cracking down every summer and virtually shut down 
every beach North of Santa Cruz using massive amounts of manpower to
achieve the total curfew after dark. 

We cant party there in the summer because it appeals to to many people
who don't care about anything other than getting high and fucking shit up.

I bet when the weather gets cold and wet this winter we can use the spot
with discretion.

This problem has existed for as long as I can remember in Santa Cruz.
And it probably is a social reality of kabalistic proportion.

salutations, allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:26:58 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404182226.AA19898@pilot.njin.net>
To: meclay@netcom.com (Michael E. Clay)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Close Encounters, Chicago&  (response & review)
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

The one with the light stick was either me or Greg Mosheh. Greg has a
buzz-cut with a ponytail. I have med-length straight brown hair & was
wearing a white T-shirt and jeans. I gave him the light-stick after a
while cause he was having so much fun with it :).

Close Encounters rocked. Alex played a wonderful techno-trance set and
Synthesis played some great _techno_!! 

The crowd was into it at first, then dispersed during Alex's set. I
agree pretty much with Mike's assessment. Most of the crowd seemed to
just be there, not even realizing what kind of music was to be played.
I went specifically because of the music, and was completely aurally
satisfied :).

They did a good job of dispersing the Haze Curse and turning it into a
decent rave space. The security, as usual, were hassling everyone. I
saw them bust into the bathroom stall and tell a guy he had to hand
over his drugs or be ejected. (Hmmm I wonder what hapens to the
drugs?)  Does anyone have any idea why they look so hard for drugs?
Hell, I've seen cops do security at events and not be that intrusive.

They shut it down at 4am when there were about 6 people left.
Synthesis looked pretty pissed. He wanted to keep spinning! Look out
for this guy. He can _really_ spin techno!

We rescued a couple of tripped out people and took them to a safe
place :). Lesson learned: If you see someone who you think might be
having a bad time, _ask_them_. I should have talked to this guy much
earlier, but I was afraid of interrupting him. It turned out he was
having a _really_ bad trip and desperately needed help. We could have
rescued him 2 hours earlier. Don't wait: ask.

I think the Haze can work. It needs good visuals, a friendly promoter
touch, more real ravers, and a bit less harassment from the security.
The latter really needs to be addressed because sooner or later
someone is going to react to it violently.

The sound was pretty decent, too. The trick, I think, is to not put
too much sound in there. At first, it was too lound and boomy. Ethan
had them turn it down a bit, and tweaked things for a while (it was
not his system), and then it sounded _good_. Better than most events.

Well, that wraps it up. Best of luck to the promoters -- I thought
they put on a good event.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:37:54 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404182237.AA20211@pilot.njin.net>
To: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
Cc: meclay@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Close Encounters, Chicago & -Reply
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that I've never had so many people ask me
if I knew where to find drugs. Maybe the 'E' factor was just too low
:).

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:40:14 1994
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From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Message-Id: <199404182241.PAA13249@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Rave report
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

SF Rave report
==============

  This weekend promised to be more outdoors raving with the free Basics
gig this friday,  which turned out to be a big bust.    Bonny Doon was
the selected place for Basics this Friday,  but with extra publicity
and focus on Bonny Doon because of the Rolling Stone article,  the cops
were there waiting.    We get there just after 2:45 AM and as we left
Lancaster on the last 2 mile stretch of hiway 1,  we notice an unusual
amount of cop cars and other "Piggish" activities in the area,  so we
just drove on a while until we came up to a group of cars and found
out that the pary was busted.   Arghh!!    

   Instead,  I visited a friends place in Santa Cruz and we fired up some
old Jeno tapes,  cranked up the volume and had our OWN rave until about
11 am,  then headed back to SF where I had to attend a SRL meeting. (Survival
Research Lab - those crazy people who build monster machines that spit
out fire and fight each other).   After the meeting,  I head out to
Golden gate park for the Band Shell rave that was hoppin.   DJ Dan was
spinning some really good funkey tunes until they had to shut down.

  Sat evening we had.....  XYZ at Richmon Civic center (A $20 commercial
thingie) which none of us self respecting SFRavers wanted to patronize due
to the high cost.    We also had some Chicago origional DJ's spinning at
174 King St and at 16th and Harrison for only $7 (Before 11 am) we had
some true European and British style Acid Trace (which I liked the best),
so I had to put up with the 16th and Harrison (Hayes Theator) goons again
(Arghhh!),  and they sure lived up to their reputation.

  This rave was called Close Encounters,  and featured Alex from Gia Montra
records,  Ethan,  and Jonah.    I think Jonah was spinning when we got there
(About 12:30),  and I sure was happy to dance to the faster paced european
acid trance.    And BOY was I tranced out that evening!!  :-)

  The attendance factor wasn't that good,  especially when the faster paced
misic was being spun,  but I dug the shit out of it,  and was as happy as
"Pig in shit" hopping around an almost empty dance floor.   I guess the
California weenies cannot handle this stuff,  but I don't think that explained
why it was so poorly attended.    

   As the evening wore on,   Sean and me noticed this dude standing by the speakers
totally fried out staring at the cieling.   Sean commented... "I'm sure what he is
seeing is quite a bit different than what we see...".    Unfortunately,  by 3 am
the place was practically deserted and shut down early,  but I was totally 
incapable of driving anywhere, so thanx to Sean and his friends,  we made plans 
to hang out together and go somewhere to chill out.    Just as we were leaving,  
that dude that was staring up quietly said...  "Please help me!!",  so I sat 
him down,  summoned Sean over and this guy was totally hosed.   We found out later 
on,  that he had overdosed on speed.    We head out to the IHOP on Lombard St 
for some coffee and food.    Our spaced out friend wa staying in Lafeyette 
(About 35 miles east of SF),  and he begged me to stay with him until he 
recovered from his high.    Sean drives us over there, and I say with this 
dude and his friend trying to talk him out of doing more speed and comforted 
him as he was going through the last stages of the effects of the speed.  

   Eventually,  I head back to SF on BART,  pick up my car,  and
headed over to Light-n-up.   I didn't get much dancing in this weekend,
(only 6 hours),  so after Light-n-up I head over to the End-Up and went
insane,  dancing my ass off to make up for all the raving time I missed.

   While at the End-up,  this girl comes up and asks me how old I was,
then she commented.... "You are one awsome stud"...   We talked for a while
and made plans to get together next weekend.   That incident with the girl
brightened up my day,  that's for sure... Normally, by the time I get
to the End-up,  I'll have been dancing almost 20+ hours,  but because of the
Bonny Doon bust,  helping out a fellow raver on speed,   I had lots more
energy left and wanted to literally burn it up....   Eventually,  I had to
get back early to get ready to leave town on Monday,  so I (sigh) had to
leave.    The End-up was especially crowded,   but the outside porch
provided me plenty of room (and cooler environment). along with a beautiful
sunney day,   more than made up for all the hassles I had in my attempts
to go out raving this weekend.

Cheers...
Cap'n Crunch

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:43:53 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9404182244.AA23830@gaia.internex.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, robertj308@aol.com
Subject: Re: "House"-Chicago Style Stiffed (review)
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Robert,
	These were my sentiment _exactly_!
	Earlier in the day, wile I was at the GG park party I ran into
	a well know orange-haired rave queen who asked me where I was going
	that night, I told her I was going to House, she kinda squinted,
	SShe said "Who's spinning" I said these fantastic DJ from Chicago,
	Lil John, Orlando and "Freddie", when they were here last they
	_fucked_ it up! She gets this sorta doubtful look on her face
	and then asked "Well, who's party is it?" I say to her, "Who the
	fuck cares? It _should_ be about the MUSIC not who's party or
	what DJ's are spinning!" And this weekend, this point was driven
	home to me in a very sad way at "House".  Here were three GREAT DJs
	people like lil john could give even the likes of Jeno a serious run
	for his money (he did just that at La P de V).  They played stuff that
	SF DJ's like Jeno and Markie all have in their crates and play to
	estactic crowds, but on saturday this "House" was near empty.

	These three did something neat that I though SF should really see,
	rather then each playing one 2 hours set a piece the each took 20 - 40
	minute turns, and co-operated to make the product a more communal
	group effort.

	It's a shame that the Scene is becomming so clickish and factionalized
	but I guess it is inevitable.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:49:18 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404182249.PAA23506@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: APocalypse
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 15:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
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APOCALYPSE 415.979.8411

Hardcore weekly at the HAZE for at least 1 more month

friday 04.22.94 Demigod,DRC,Buck,Frank Nitty, 
Richie,Binnie,Ben,Galen,Kwashi,Maxx,Gary,Spinner,Dice,Mars,
R O N  D  C O R E

friday 04.29.94 Demigod , DRC, Binnie,Ben,Galen,Kwashi,Frank Nitty,
Christophe, Gary Maxx, Chris Lum,
R A W

(We Saw Motorhead at the HAZE and the vibe at the HAZE has been
 Thouroughly cleansed + they had beer and pizza)

$7 all ages

salutations, allen@ameba


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:50:56 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 15:32:28 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: "This will stop"
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>But I dig the idea of daytime parties, although the lack of shade is a 
>problem.  I'd love to do either a dawn to noon or 3 pm to twilight kind
>of event there, though.  Especially combined with a cleanup like we've
>talked about.  I'll bring my daytime house mix bag :)


The beach is legally open until 10pm. So yeah, 2-10 would be cool.

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:51:19 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 15:32:23 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: "House"-Chicago Style Stiffed
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>For all the past complaining I've heard on the Net about the "same dj's,"it
>was a shame more people did not avail themselves of something different. I
>don't know if there will be another  Chicago Style party soon, but judging
>from Saturdays turnout, I suspect NOT. Which is too bad, IMHO. Robertj....MRP

If I remember correctly, the first "La Pleisure de Vivre" suffered from its
*deservedly* bad association with one "jalim" (haleem? whatever) of local
infamy. I don't care *who* he brings out here to play, you will not find me
at one of his parties. Too, I remember someone I know getting stiffed by
him/them that night. So it is no big surprise, to me, that their second
effort was met with little enthusiasm. If Luciana is as cool as you say I
wish her luck in the future.

ObChicago House: one set's worth of wailing divas almost put me in the
loony bin at the one rhythm I attended. Jan Cooley had a similar effect on
me recently. I can't imagine being able to survive a whole night of it.
Occasionally a morning set of it can be a nice way to start the day
however.

One problem I have with wailing divas and more generally vocals is that
they imply lyrics which imply meaning. This is a very limiting factor; I
prefer to just entirely disengage the lyric>decode>meaning>insight part of
my brain. If I want meaning from words I'll read faulkner. What I want from
a rave is a deep trance unhindered by "deeper loves","brighter days" or
other such "insights".

roll the deep techno trance
ethan

                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:54:51 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 15:54:35 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: sorry tam and urb (was bonny dommed)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I'm sorry Tamara and Urb Magazine for mis-remembering what 
Tamara had said about the author of the Rolling Stone
article.  Tamara and Urb Magazine should by no means be
considered as endorsing, approving of, or even agreeing
with anything in that article (unless they come out and say
so for themselves).

Regardless of what was written in that article, I think
blaming the demise of Bonny Doon as a primo outdoor party
spot is HARDLY the fault of the article (which I did in
fact read, it's even sitting on my bedroom floor somewhere).

End of disclaimer, please don't bug Tam or Urb, etc etc etc.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 15:59:13 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9404182259.AA24041@gaia.internex.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, child@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

> 
> There was no organized concerted effort to clean the beach but several others
> also started picking up trash after the music stopped.  I stopped by the
> beach again at 5pm to look at it again and viewed it from the cliff in front
> of the railroad tracks and from that distance, the beach looked CLEAN.  I 
> know it was from a distance but I couldn't pick out any obvious large pieces
> of trash in my view.
> 
> Now please somebody who actuallly inspected the beach at say 4 or 5pm please
> speak up and say if the beach was trashed then or not.
> 
> According to mine eyes and some effort on my part the beach was not trashed.

Thanks for the observation,
	If you were there then I believe you. But I think that
we all stressed the good will of the SC cops, 3000+ people and almost
as many cars allong rt 1 was alittle too much, coupled with the Rolling Stone
article.  In my opinion the last full moon should _not_ have happened there.
It didn't help that there was a party BEFORE the FM and another party
AFTER.  Martin announced his party on his voice mail and started _early_
it was asking to be busted.  But as i have said, just as well.  The site needs
a rest.  I'm still down for a clean up patrol.  I think we owe it to the site
for all the good times some of us have had there.

I think I'll write a letter to the SC authorities and tell them that we are 
going to spend a day cleaning up the beach and maybe ask for some support
from the sanitation/parks dept.  It might show that at least _some_ ravers
care about such things.  It might be a good way to initiate some dialog
with the cops so that _small_ parties won't be hassled.
Brian B. since you were the person who "found" (with proper props
to caliban :) the site as far as raves are concerned and I was the one who
convinced the cops to let us have the very first "rave" on that site, I think
we should be the ones to write a letter, and maybe even sign it.
are you interested in helping me draft a letter?

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 16:03:26 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404182056.AA29008@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu, boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com,
        robertj308@aol.com, uunet!well.sf.ca.us!phred@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: "This will stop"
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Why and how was Basics stopped at Bonny Dune anyway?  We must analyze this.
Will they always try to stop parties there now?  Just in time to spoil the
spring/summer '94 season?

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 16:03:32 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404182101.AA29013@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: grigsby@agames.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        uunet!internex.net!geoffw@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

What do you think?  Should we write an anonymous letter to the SCPD
explaining the situation and thanking [sic] them for the tolerance
that they have shown for the past 2 years?  It might go a long way to
mending some fences that the Rolling Stone article have splintered.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds good except we would need to make sure we were speaking for the
community.  I would hate to write the letter and have someone attempt
a party there the following weekend.  They'd think we were a bunch of
lying jerks.

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 16:05:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:04:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Urmanita <urmanitb@ucs.orst.edu>
Reply-To: Brian Urmanita <urmanitb@ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion, respect, and "the scene"
To: Tanya Smith <tmsmith@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>, sf <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404180802.A11578-0100000@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
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Tanya, I totally relate to what you are saying.  And it pisses me off 
when people scrutinize me or the Bible because they believe otherwise.  
People often say that all Christians do is condemn others because of 
what they believe or don't believe.  What I find to hold true is that being a 
Christian is not necesssarily tolerating others but accepting others for 
who they are.  Maybe I don't agree with a person's views but I do have 
profound repect for them, just as they should for me.  And it pisses me 
off when people, who call themselves Christians, condemn others because a 
difference in beliefs, Jesus loved and cared about EVERYONE regardless of 
who they were. And if we are going about carelessly calling ourselves 
Christians while we fling accusations then we are no better than who we 
scorn.  If I sound a bit preachy its because I have friends who are gay, 
straight, white, black, brown (me :), friends that have various assorted 
hair colors;  and maybe being a pit preachy will make some people realize 
that respect is a major part of this scene and when it gets a bit hard, 
its just a test of how strong we are as individuals and as one group.  
Well, there's what I think.  I hope that I have at least made some people 
think of what its *supposed* to be like to be a Christian.
-Brian


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 16:10:07 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 19:09:23 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404182309.AA21592@pilot.njin.net>
To: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: "House"-Chicago Style Stiffed
In-Reply-To: <199404182229.PAA25676@mail.netcom.com>
References: <199404182229.PAA25676@mail.netcom.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

In general, I don't like deep house or Chicago house, no matter how
well it's played. It's like country to me; I just gotta be in that
rare mood. I acknowledge the brilliance of Mark Farina and others,
it's just that the entire genre puts me to sleep most of the time.

What I'd like to hear more of is hard trance, high-energy house and
progressive house, and some hard dark dark dark claws coming out of
the speakers 150+ bpm black as night bad trip techno.

:)

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 16:18:44 1994
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From: Brian Urmanita <urmanitb@ucs.orst.edu>
Reply-To: Brian Urmanita <urmanitb@ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: re:  bonny doomed
To: sf <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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I don't think its the end of an era;  at least I hope its not.  I think 
that the recent exposure of bonny doon is just a temporary "fad".  Since 
rolling stone thinks its cool, you know, it must be.  But the way fads, 
fashions, styles and other mindless crap the exudes from the corporate 
hole of Rolling Stone, it will be just another back issue that we will 
want to forget about and continue on with the reality of the scene.  
Bonny Doon was my first fmr and it was the time of my life.  I never felt 
such warmth from total strangers.  And I would hate to see it get tossed 
away labled as another overused site.  I just hope that the people that 
really care about what's going on can keep on dancing and forget the 
mainstream. I know I'd like to forget about them.
Brian


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 16:28:32 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:26:51 -0700
In-Reply-To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
       "Re: Bonny Doomed" (Apr 18,  3:59pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        child@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

On Apr 18,  3:59pm, you proclaimed:
} I think I'll write a letter to the SC authorities and tell them that we are 
} going to spend a day cleaning up the beach and maybe ask for some support
} from the sanitation/parks dept.  It might show that at least _some_ ravers
} care about such things.  It might be a good way to initiate some dialog
} with the cops so that _small_ parties won't be hassled.
} Brian B. since you were the person who "found" (with proper props
} to caliban :) the site as far as raves are concerned and I was the one who
} convinced the cops to let us have the very first "rave" on that site, I think
} we should be the ones to write a letter, and maybe even sign it.
} are you interested in helping me draft a letter?

Yes, Geoff, I'll help with this.  If anyone else has memes they would like
to help us weave into this, send them to me or Geoff.  Let's get a draft
together by Friday.  Here are some ideas in my head:



We believe it *is* possible to hold large events there, if we take
the right precautions.  "In the old days" this meant people parking
cars, on-site medical volunteers, people making sure others came down
the cliffs the right way, etc.  This was perhaps lost on others who
have used the beach since, but it can be relearned.

Mention that there is little lateral communication in our scene (I feel
this is true, despite SFRaves) and that means sometimes abuse of social
contracts can take place.  This is what happened here, and we need to
learn from it.

There is lots more but you know what I mean.  This letter shouldn't be
meant as an attempt to reconcile or find a solution to the problem or
be an apology.  It should be an attempt to let them hear the other
side of things, in a situation other than at the beach at 2am.  They are
smarter than we might think, and recognizing that is important.

Additionally, it would really help if there were Santa Cruz residents,
particularly older Santa Cruz residents, who could speak to or 
communicate with the community about this as well.

	Brian
 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 16:32:07 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:31:36 -0700
In-Reply-To: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
       "Re: Bonny Doomed" (Apr 18,  2:00pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie), grigsby@agames.com,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!internex.net!geoffw@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

} What do you think?  Should we write an anonymous letter to the SCPD
} explaining the situation and thanking [sic] them for the tolerance
} that they have shown for the past 2 years?  It might go a long way to
} mending some fences that the Rolling Stone article have splintered.

It needs to have a real name attached, in my opinion.  It will carry
ten times the weight.  And if it's from a Santa Cruz resident it will
mean even more.

} Sounds good except we would need to make sure we were speaking for the
} community.  I would hate to write the letter and have someone attempt
} a party there the following weekend.  They'd think we were a bunch of
} lying jerks.

Exactly, which is why "speaking for the community" might not be the
right tack.  

They've seen parties there a long time now.  They know that no one person
or small group of people could represent the "partiers".... which might
be why they see direct confrontation as the only way to communicate 
that it's gotten out of control (which I think we all agree it has.)
This is a quandry I don't have a solution for.

	Brian



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 16:42:44 1994
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From: gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Message-Id: <9404182342.AA12527@coreys.maggot>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Rolling Stone article
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


	Since this article is coming up a lot in recent threads, could 
someone out there post it and/or add it to the archives?  It's long gone 
from the magazine rack...


					thank you thank you thank you,
					gregg


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 17:25:56 1994
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Message-Id: <9404181725.ZM5047@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 17:25:31 -0700
In-Reply-To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
        "Re: Bonny Doomed" (Apr 18,  1:45pm)
References: <9404182045.AA22091@gaia.internex.net>
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Why not send a *signed* letter from those of us at sfraves and elsewher
who enjoyed the scene at Bonny Doon.  I would sign.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 17:38:12 1994
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Message-Id: <9404181736.ZM8933@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 17:36:39 -0700
In-Reply-To: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
        "Close Encounters, Chicago & -Reply" (Apr 18,  6:37pm)
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Cc: meclay@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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One thing Sean mentioned about Ethan getting them to turn down the
sound . . . one thing I'm realizing is how important the concept
of "enough" is to sound reinforcement.  Enough meaning, sometimes tere
is too much and you have to turn it down.  This was a problem again
this week in Portland at the event Jeno spun at, in a concrete warehouse
where the mid-bass is just packed solid and gets overly percussive with
just a *little* too much drive.  They had it EQed down but it was still
too loud.  My view of it is when I'm in the sound sweet spot (they had
this set up as a quad), I shouldn't need earplugs.  And I needed plugs
pretty much all night.

If all you want is THUD BOOM, fine, breaks are for you.  If you want
more musicality, demand better sound!  I *know* it can be loud and good,
that was the lesson of the legendary 1992 Troc sound system.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 17:55:52 1994
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <9404181755.ZM16644@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 17:55:24 -0700
In-Reply-To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
        "Re: Bonny Doomed" (Apr 18,  4:26pm)
References: <199404182326.QAA28144@soda.berkeley.edu>
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        child@netcom.com
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Bravo!  I would suggest adding that as the initial instigators, if you
will, of using Bonny Doon for raves that you were always aware of the
carrying capacity of the area and did what you could to help keep
traffic organized and so forth.  

I think many of us can testify to the spiritual aspects of the place.
So thank you Santa Cruz County and especially the earth that made us
for letting us have this kind of experience even now in these drive-
fast-cars-drop-cigarette-butts-and-empty-beer-cans era.

Nothing could beat thrashing through the surf in the morning sun while
Garth was playing the remix of Eddy Grant's 'Walking on Sunshine.'  Nothing!

phred

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 18:31:30 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: drenalin@duckmail.uoregon.edu (Adrenalin)
Subject: rolling stone article (long)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

     Here is some of the article why doesn't someone else keep typing where
I left off,  hint, hint.. anyway it's long and this is the main part about
SF and the FMM.  I'm thinking of sending one with many comments, because
I'm not very fond of the article but this is unadulterated version.  Enjoy!
:)

----------------
         Along a deserted strecth of highway north of Santa Cruz, Ca., and
a few miles south of the San Andreas fault, the shoulder of the road
suddenly turns into a parking lot, with 600 cars jammed tightly on either
side.  Three police officers frantically write tickets.  "What's going on
here tonight?" one of them asks a group of people getting out of a truck.
They give a vague answer and hurry across the asphalt, disappearing over
the bluff toward the distant heartbeat of a sound system.  The Southern
Pacificcoastal railway runs along the west side of the highway.  Acoross
the tracks, a ridge descends to an exquisite beach secluded within a cove,
a setting so pristine it wouls suit a travel brochure.  Roughly 2,000
people are gathered, dancing in the sand, sitting around fires or walking
along the surf.  Some have pitched tents, and a circle of men sit on the
ground with drums, pounding a rhythmic counterpoint to the throb from the
speakersand the random hiss of a nitrous oxide tank.  The ocean carries the
palpable buzz of psychedlics.  Some people pass joints, and a few hold
bottles wrapped in brown paper.  The tribal scene would remind a baby
boomer of Woodstock.
        Threre's no bandstand tonight; instead, dancers press up around two
turntables on a stand planted in the middle of the beach.  The makeshift DJ
booth is lit by a portable generatorthat also fuels two massive speaker
stacks decorated with columns of balloons.  DJ Garth, one of the stars of
the bay Area rave scene, has just pulled Tranquility Bass' "Cantamilla"
into a pulsating, meditative mix of techno and house.  The record booms
against the cliffs, which form a natural echo chamber, and the full moon
glows over the ocean, bathing the landscape in dim blue light.
        Tonight's crowd is an even blend of college kids, club poeple,
Santa Cruz hippies and ravers.  Predominantly white, but also Asian, Latin
and black, they've come from all over Northern California and as far away
as Los Angeles and San Diego.  Assembled without promotion except for word
of mouth spread earlier this evening, they are here for the free party that
in the last two years has become a Bay Area Ritual: the Full Moon Massive
rave.  tThe trunout is especially large because the full moon is rising on
a Friday night and the weather is fine.
        Over the last few months, 20 year-old Shawn O'Docaharty, a
pierced-and-tatooed student at Cabrillo College, near Santa Cruz, has
become a regular at Full Moon.  At a perch high on the enbankment, he sits,
enjoying the view of the beach and the crisp air off of the water.  "It's
the best rave in Northern California," he says.  "The cops can't do
anything, because it's a private beach, and ther's too many people here for
them to break it up.  A $20 parking ticket split between a car of four or
five people is still a bargain for most ravers.  They'd pay $20 each
somewhere else."
        At 6am, the moon still hangs in the sky, and the first rays of
morning illuminaste the terra-cota and purple layers of the cliffs.  Nearly
500 people remain, dancing or sharing blankets around fires.  "The last
party lasted until 4 in the afternoon," says O'Docharty.  "By that time,
things get pretty communal: 'I've got food food, you've got water, he's got
a bowl.'  There's kind of a family value to it."

-----------
Thanks for smiling, please come again!

The Cloud Factory
Our People Make the Difference

-------------------------------------------------------
(:   The Madlander - Doctor Goto - Tim - DJ Adrenalin         :)
(:               Dancing to reach a higher consciousness...        :)
-------------------------------------------------------
"I was running around handing out happiness to people..."
                                                       -groovy Chris



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 19:15:28 1994
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 19:14:47 -0700
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404190214.TAA20057@soda.berkeley.edu>
To: grigsby@agames.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        uunet!soda.berkeley.edu!caliban@uunet.UU.NET,
        winston@lurnix.lurnix.com
Subject: Re:  Christian raves?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	Subject: Re:  Christian raves?
	
	 where in the bible (regarding christianity) do you find
	        support for this statement?  maybe someplace in the old
	        testament, but i don't belive you can back these words
	        text from the new testament.
	------------------------------------------------------------------
	
	The bible is the bible.  Next your gonna tell us that such and such
	was in the writings of Paul so "i don't belive you can back these words
	text from Peter"  The christian line is that the bible (which ever one
	you choose) is the word of god and the collection of writings were written
	and put together through divine intervention and that they stand %100 correct
	as a whole because it is of and from god (funny how Gutenberg's first run
	had a bunch of typos in it though).  Anyway, what differnce does it make
	if "suffer not a witch to live" is in the biblical chapter of Liviticus
	or Mathew?  Except maybe your gonna say because it would be before or afte
	Jesus.  But the old an new testament represent the same god.
	
	-Winston (changing my name yet again to match my login)
	
	this is bullshit, winston.  i was raised and confirmed a
	catholic, and though i pretty much have abandoned their
	scene altogether, i still remember it all.  the new 
	testament and the old testament are seperate entities in
	many ways.  the new testament is a revision, and in many 
	ways, a renunciation of the old ways.   the old ways are
	what killed christ, so the story goes, who was there to
	teach a new life to everyone.  

	how can you say that christianity advocates killing of
	non-believers (and that the bible *supports* this, which 
	is the main point you made) when the first and foremost
	*prime directive* of the new testament is "thou shall
	not kill"?  think about this for a moment.  now read on.

	i am in no way denying the slaughter of thousands upon
	thousands of people at the hands of christians, christians
	who believed they were doing gods work.  fuckin-a, people
	died horrible tortuous deaths because of the inquisition
	alone.  factoids like this are what made me abandon the
	christian life very shortly after i was confirmed.  but
	nonetheless, i hold my ground that the new testament says
	*nothing* to support this sort of terror, or any killing
	at all.  it preaches love above all, really, and i think
	it is a good book.  unfortunately, throughout the ages 
	and including this age, people have been interpreting the
	bible in a vast variety of ways, to the point of making 
	the words fit exactly their philosophy and desires.  it
	is going on right now with homosexuality and with the
	exclusion of women, mainly.

cali



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 20:57:53 1994
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From: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed
To: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Cc: Geoff White <geoffw@internex.net>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        grigsby@agames.com
In-Reply-To: <9404181725.ZM5047@well.sf.ca.us>
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> Why not send a *signed* letter from those of us at sfraves and elsewher
> who enjoyed the scene at Bonny Doon.  I would sign.


Send to whom?

Sam


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 22:14:43 1994
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Subject: Articles needed
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Bay Area Ravers list)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 22:14:41 PDT
From: DWATANAB@uci.edu (Dana Watanabe)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I have an assignemnt where i have to summarize/review an article
that meets one of the following criteria

an article in a scholarly social science journal that presents
a theory or reviews the literatue in some area

an article that is devoted primarily to evaluating a measurement procedure
employed in the social sciences

both need to be 1990 or later...

i want to use an article that deals with chemicals or some such
but am having a hell of a time finding one 
so if anyone knows of sucha n article that fits one of these descriptions
then if you could drop a line 'twould be much appreciated

 ,
dana

"I had a vision, and in it, I was looking down upon the world.  And
there was a bright light shining from North America to the rest of
the world. God spoke to me, and He said, 'Satellite.'"

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 18 23:14:22 1994
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From: jvlraves@aol.com
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 94 02:11:49 EDT
Subject: Eyeglasses Lost at GG Park Organic
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

To: People at the band shell sat afternoon
A pair of prescription eyeglasses were lost at the band shell during organic
sat afternoon.  They are in a black case labeled "site for sore eyes" and the
lenses are in really cool frames.   Did anyone happen to pick them up and/or
turn them in?  They belong to Ellen Ferrato, and she would really appreciate
a call from anyone that may have found them.  Please dial 821-6012, and lv
msg, or e-mail me and I will forward the msg.  Thanks.
Jim

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 06:42:09 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404191343.GAA19236@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: New Site/Time 4 SB Lunch
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
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 I beleive it would be easier for more people to come to the South
Bay lunch if it was at a different day/time/place. So , I need 
suggestions.

 I personally would like to move it to Wednesday , and start a
half-hour later at 12:30PM. Also , I think a slightly more northerly
location would be better for more folks to attend. However , for
my schedule , I couldn't make it to anything very much farther
north than Menlo Park or Redwood City.

 What are people's feelings about this? Send your comments and suggestions
to me ( larryc@netcom.com ) , and I'll summarize them and send the
summary back out to the list.

	Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 07:01:27 1994
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To: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>Mike asks:
>
>  >I
>  >did notice at least 2 distinct groups did I not ? ( I'm new remember )
>  >Group 1 are presumed Ravers (TM) dancing mid floor all smiles etc.
>  >Group 2 are presumed Gangers (??) mostly Hispanic, mostly stern, didn't
>  >  seem to like the music, certainly didn't dance.

What the *FUCK* is this shit?  Let me get this straight:

Group 1 MUST be mostly white, peaceful beings with all love in mind.
Group 2 MUST be the others, bangers, whatever...

And to boot Laura, you did not call him on it.  Well I will...This streak
of racism that has been going around in very masked terms sickens me.  That
is not what this scene is about, that is not what the music is about, and
it is not what life is about.

Classifying people by their looks is stupid, moronic, and rather
old-fashioned.  Not what I have come to expect from people who consider
themselves enlightened.
I also find it TRAGIC that everyone let this shit slide by with some brief
elucidation about what's what and hows what at the Haze.  Weak.

Here let me clue some of you in...that term "Gangster" seems to be applied
to people who are of the browner persuasion.  It has always, at least here
on the list as well as the fucked up media, been applied to African
Americans & Latino/Hispanics. Why is that?  The only gansters I know of are
the few thugs (most of whom do NOT fit the above sickening stereotype [i.e.
they are WHITE]) who have caused fights at clubs, been so high as to fight
the cops, try to beat up dj's, etc.  So far, I have found NO bangers do
such shit.  And if you wanna spot me the few incidents of voilence I can
site several more where no minority was involved.

Stop the classification, stop the racist bullshit, stop the codewords.
It's plain as day what you mean, and even moreso when people let the shit
slide.

Late,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
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From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 07:01:27 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Religion & raves...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Man I just go for the good times with friends and family.  The Torah stays
home, along with other personal stuff.  I try to go in "clean", and go out
"cleaner"!

Remember:  It ain't all that if you can't cracker-jack!!!

Crackin' on,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 07:01:29 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: I just don't get it, AT ALL!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Bonnie Doon - I for one am *GLAD* that it may not be used again.  Poor
planning, and just stepping onto ground where no arrangements were made
beforehand, only begs the question, "Were they asking to be shut down?".
Yes, IMHO.  The second thing about Bonnie Doon (in general terms) and
outdoor shit in general is that people really could give a fuck.  It's free
so they go.  Yes, many of us who respect the scene and respect what
djs/promoters/ravers-partiers do to make it real, but what we have lost
sight of is that there are MANY who are not clued into the big picture
(thus the term, for lack of a beeter one, clueless).  It's not that they
are not tied in or know the right person, but they are really not informed
of the etiqutte involved with being at a party.  I would venture to say
that the majority of us were introduced to the "scene" by people who were
in it, had gone to a few, and were versed as to the goings on.  Like any
"trip" a good guide can tell you whats to be expected, as well as what is
expected of you.  What we fail to understand is many, and I would say the
majority, have not had such kind intro's into our community.  The result,
3000 cracker-jacks: 200-400 that have gone out before, 2600-2800 new folx
just there for the big show == taking things for granted == mess at the
beach.

To further this nonsense it has been the community at large (many here on
the list), who have volunteered their time, and thinking of ways to correct
a problem that they have taken as their own.  That is very human, and very
good.  However, where in the FUCK is Allan, Trish & the Boyz when it comes
to this catastrophe?  What, if anything, have any of them done to try to
clear up this mess, and make things right with the SC police.  They should
be the focus of the effort (it was their efforts that made it possible),
and they should take the high road and do something about it.  They should
be held JUST as responsible for the mess as every person who dropped
rubbish on that beach.  It would really be nice if I can eat my words, but
knowing what's up, I know I am not far off in my assesment of their lack of
response in this area (and it would NOT be the first time things were
foisted onto the community due to actions of a very, very few ;(  ).

Although I do not go out to outdoor parties (due to the mess humans leave,
and the general respect I have for nature), I do hope that this will not be
the last one for those who enjoy such events.  Good luck in the repair of
Bonnie Doon. I wish there were more people like those who have the
initiative to take such action, in the general public; it would be a better
place to live.

Urrgh Music Wars/Possification of SF - I am glad I am stepping away for a
few weeks from the innards of the rave/club scene.  It seems every time I
get involved with it, I find the new high points of the people who are in
it, as well as thier lows.  But I ain't about slingin mud here, just wanna
chat about what I see as the strong opinions truning into stone realities.
Let's take music for instance...."House" @ 174 King St.  shoulda gotten
more support.  Great DJ's great music.  The reason they did not do well is
simple, there were a bunch of unknowns on the flyer.  Unknowns don't play
here real well (unless they play here often enough to get a rep).  This
sucks.  People are starting to form their own little camps of music posses.
You know, where it's the DJ you like, or the Promoter, or the "style" of
music.  The result, posses and super-posses.  Wicked is a classic example.
Yeah, I've defended the party most recently, but it *IS* a huge posse of
people who love to hear the boyz.  Most of them wanna hear *ONLY* the boyz.
The same can be said of many parties.  Either it's "I hate lyrics..." to
"I hate 150+ bpm..." to "...too many gays..." to "...too many gangsters..."
to "...too much of this..." and "...too little of that...".  I can't wait
for the day people open their heads again and give other things a try.  I
used to HATE screaming diva stuff.  I would BAG on any DJ who played it,
and any promoter who allowed such garbage to be played at his/her party.  I
have found that some lyrics in some songs are really cool, even when that
screaming goes on it can be fun.  Yeah, I know some is preachy, but MOST is
not!  I have learned to appreciate it for what it is, and have realized
that the alchemist (dj) who's tellin that tale is the real force behind the
story being told.  It's beyond just lyrics and vocal tricks.

The same can be said of "hardcore".  I personally don't like it.  Why?
I've listened to that stuff for the past 4 years that's why (to me it's
played out, heard it at Halim's, heard it at Toon Town, heard it in LA;
I've heard it, grew up on it). IMHO it has not evolved to the extend of
other genres of house.  However, I have quite a few "hardcore" trance
techno CD's that I've taken to work recently, and listento at home.  I have
found I have a great time listenting to it, given the right circumstance.
I even , omigod, booked a hardcore DJ for a Vortex a while back.  He
slammed it, and I had a GREAT time with his set.  Even though I was not
"into" it personally , I could hear the story, and got off on it!  It's all
about keeping that open mind and giving things a chance.  That's what it's
about.  Isn't it?

All of these tastes turn into posses when people take it to the next level
of discrimination (and you should be discrimitating at times IMHO).  You
know what I'm talkin about:  "I/We only go to Wicked..." or "I/We only go
to YSH..." or "I/We only go to anypartyname/anypartytype...".  This ensures
this scenes demise.  And if such selectivity continues, I will be VERY
happy to see the whole thing end.  Nature abhors a vaccum and it abhors the
specialist.  Only through many offerings/many tastes can this scene thrive.
Diversity is strength so diversify every now and then.  When out of town
DJ's come in for a spin, take a listen to 'em (esp. if it's cheap).  Try
out parties you would not normaly attend, just for kicks (and keep a good
'tude.  Just go for the fun of it! Hell, it's just a party :) ).  Support
the good parties, and give the new promoters/dj's/etc. a chance to prove
themselves (The majority of the folx here on the list do this last item
pretty well, but I had to say it nonetheless).  And if possible do
something yourself, or with a collective.  Keep it goin' !

Peace,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 08:54:54 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 94 08:36:14 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404191536.AA07370@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Our scene In The Light
Cc: sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU, jlf3@mofo.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I think Geoff's idea of a letter to local Santa Cruz officials is a good 
one, and in a way, underscores the main problem that's happening with our 
scene.  What has been sorely missing from the scene is COMMUNICATION.

Let's face it, FMRs lost their full moon ritualistic nature focus a long
time ago, and there has been no attempt at all to communicate *anything*
worthwhile to the party-goers.  And what was that free Basics party all
about?  "Let's stop fucking around" and go invade the Bonnie Doon
neighborhood again?  If the scene is just about the music and partying, 
even free ones aren't going to "keep it alive".  Parties like Kindness 
and Your Sisters' House have the right idea because they attempt to 
communcate something beyond the mainly hedonistic aspects of raving.  At 
all the other major parties I go to, I rarely see info sheets about 
*anything* anymore, just flyers for other parties.  Have you all seen
the flyer for "Apocalypse" with the nuclear mushroom cloud?  Now there's
a nice image for ya. 

In case no one noticed, we're supposed to be putting on a party on May 
28th, the Saturday of Memorial Day weekend.  This could be a chance to get 
a positive message out to people in the scene who are not online, 
including some of the none-raver public.

But first, I have a confession to make.  After the success of CONNECTION
EARTH last October, it was clear that another SFRaves party in the park
would be a good thing.  So I went ahead and made the arrangements, and
lined up May 28th, for us.  With the help of a couple of others, all the 
basic elements are in place: permits, DJs, sound system, U-haul, generator,
flyers... but something is missing here, and in the last couple of days,
it's been eating at me - and I think the Bonnie Doon bust has been my wake
up call.

I think I've been overlooking the fact the IN THE LIGHT is supposed to be
an SFRaves party.  Because I wanted it to happen so badly, I've pretty much
forged ahead with the arrangements, just assuming that the list was behind
me.  Well, this isn't supposed to be about *me* at all.  Even though I've
already put my personal signature on it, if this doesn't become *our* 
party, I'm going to have to cancel it.  And I'm *not* talking about the 
money.

I want to hear from people.  Do we really want to do this?  What's the 
point?   Would it make sense to bring Geoff & Brian's letter to the party 
and get signatures?  Should we have handouts that talk about how important
it is for ravers to respect the environment?  Can we get more signatures 
for the Hemp Initiative?  Can we, as a group do something worthwhil, or is
the scene really dying?  With your help, I think we can get a good turnout 
and make a positive impact.  But I just don't know if the enthusiasm is 
there.  There's no point in having a party for the sake of a party.

I want to thank my wife, Janie, for helping me understand what it was I
was forgetting about.  It's just like what a lot of people in the scene are forgetting about - raving is not about personal accomplishment or egos,
or getting off on helping people have fun.  It's about all of us, together, 
connected, communicating the things we believe in, trying to make our world
a little better for *everyone*.  What should we do?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________




From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 10:08:17 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 10:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@netcom.com>
Cc: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404191402.HAA09257@mail.netcom.com>
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> >  >did notice at least 2 distinct groups did I not ? ( I'm new remember )
> >  >Group 1 are presumed Ravers (TM) dancing mid floor all smiles etc.
> >  >Group 2 are presumed Gangers (??) mostly Hispanic, mostly stern, didn't
> >  >  seem to like the music, certainly didn't dance.
> 
> What the *FUCK* is this shit?  Let me get this straight:
> 
> Group 1 MUST be mostly white, peaceful beings with all love in mind.
> Group 2 MUST be the others, bangers, whatever...

No.  She wrote "presumed Ravers."  She made no specified comment on  
their race or their mindset.  You assumed benevolent, innocent, white 
people in accordance with whatever stereotype *you* have.  Who's being 
racist now?  She then made observations based on what she saw.  Stern, 
not dancing, didn't like the music: that's easy enough to see.  Then she 
made an observation on their race--*not* pro or con, just that it existed 
and that she saw it.  It is sad that no longer can one make simple 
observations without encountering some unspoken social code that employs 
reactionary Macarthyistic attitudes.

Please don't assume that everyone on this list is white, etc, etc.  I'm 
not, others aren't either.

Sami

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 10:20:18 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 10:24:36 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: >>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<<
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>One thing Sean mentioned about Ethan getting them to turn down the
>sound . . . one thing I'm realizing is how important the concept
>of "enough" is to sound reinforcement.  Enough meaning, sometimes tere

I'm really glad this got picked up as a thread cos it's an essential issue
at this point in time. 

Close Encounters as a party was *destroyed* by the sound system. Alex's set
which should have been great (certainly his music was) was unbearably
painful at the volumes at which it occurred. It drove bryce and I screaming
from the room. So I did not ask them to turn it down, I went and found the
amps and turned it *way the fuck down*, 50% at the amps. At those levels it
was still insanely loud but free of distortion, basically listenable. 5
minute later the promoter came and harassed alex for turning down 'his'
system. My ears rang for a day. Vivid suffered from the same probelm,
Kindness, Townsend, Groove Kitchens at King Street, Basics at trocadero,
etc. Thank god most of Martin's big parties (Gathering, Vision et al)
employ the famed Mark Wayne and is Meyer Sound gear which while not
altogether Hi-fi is nonethless plenty powerful and very well managed.

Compounding this problem is that djs don't know what a good sound system
sounds like. I'm sure you'll disagree Geoff but I've heard Garth do it and
I've heard Jeno do it; I've heard Spun, Josh, and Evil Eddie do it. DJs
invariably want to know *what it sounds like out there*, that very deep
urge to actually hear the set you're playing. A well poistioned DJ booth
(or table etc.) should disallow this; DJs should be behind the main system
with excellent monitors. Somtimes they are in which case the DJ turns it up
until the whole room resonates. They think they're hearing *it* what
they're actually hearing is the compressors in the amp rack compressing the
distortion they're forcing out of the mixer. Those red lights on the LEDs?
THEY'RE RED FOR A REASON! So that big DJ sound? Compressed, badly
reverberant distortion. 

Promoters and djs take note:

>>>>>>  Bad audio will kill this scene. <<<<<<

The door to trance is thru sound. If the sound system drives you out of the
room, the party's over.

Repeat after me: 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 
I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. I love my eardrums. 

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 11:03:29 1994
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From: seanc43@aol.com
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 94 14:00:24 EDT
Subject: FREE PARTY THIS WEDNESDAY! 4/20
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

                            Free Outdoor Party
                                April 20, 1994
                                    Join DJ's
                    John, Justin, Pat, and Friends
                         For an afternoon of the
                funkiest house, techno, and hip hop
                              (415) 485-6597

This will be an outdoor party very close to San Francisco at a bust free
beach location (we have permits for loud music). We'll be starting up at
around noon and continue until sunset or later. Please call the info line for
further infornmation.
Remember: "Bongs not Bombs and Buds not Bullets"
Hope to see you all there for 4:20!

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 11:06:43 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 11:06:09 -0700
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To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee), laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

John S. Lee writes:

> [ from a non JSL post ]
>>Group 1 MUST be mostly white, peaceful beings with all love in mind.
>>Group 2 MUST be the others, bangers, whatever...
>
>And to boot Laura, you did not call him on it.  

Look, leave me out of this.  It's not my job to pc police the world.
If you want to call someone on being racist fine, but I really don't
feel like doing it and I really don't feel like being told I should
do it either.  It seems no matter what I post on this damn list I
get chewed on for it:  I try to praise people but I leave people out
so I get shit.  I don't flame someone for making a stupid remark so
I get shit.  I express my musical preferences so I get shit.  I
suggest that maybe the community here could learn from other non-SF
communities and I get shit.

>I also find it TRAGIC that everyone let this shit slide by with some brief
>elucidation about what's what and hows what at the Haze.  Weak.

It's so easy for people to slam what goes on at the Haze without realizing 
that maybe these are just a bunch of kids who have no place to go because 
the stupid caberet laws don't have enough clubs open for people under 21 
to find music and atmosphere they like.  I don't consider my eludication
weak . . . in fact, the information I gave did not make any racial or
ethnic claims or excuses.  It was all based on age and the licencing
laws.  I didn't use any classifications (other than age, which applies
in the case of what is going on at the Haze and with the SF laws), and
I didn't use any codewords either.

>It's plain as day what you mean, and even moreso when people let the shit
>slide.

Oh leave me alone.  I went to the party at the Haze the week before last.  I 
had a good time.  I gave out oranges and bublegum to people there (whether 
they were dancing around or just standing watching).  I don't give a shit what 
color their skin is -- I certainly wasn't making an issue out of it -- I only 
cared that here was a bunch of kids who were basically screwed over by the SF 
caberet laws and so go to the Haze because that's the only place there really 
is for under 21's to go.  If you want to pursue higher goals of education
and retribution fine but leave me out of it.  You only seem to pay attention
when someone says something that goes against your little corner of the
world.  Where were you two weeks ago when I wrote a POSTITIVE review of the 
Haze and said that the kids there there polite and even talkative to me?  Would 
you have felt better if I had said "the non-white kids were polite and even 
talkative?"  Well, as a matter of fact they were but I didn't see the need to 
point out the courtesy levels along the different racial and ethnic lines.  
As far as I was concerned kids are kids:  they want places to go so they can 
hang out, see their friends, and have a good time.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 11:14:39 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 11:14:00 -0700
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To: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>, "John S. Lee" <jsl@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
Cc: Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Sami writes:

>No.  She wrote "presumed Ravers."  She made no specified comment on  
>their race or their mindset.  

If by "she" you meant me Sami, it wasn't me who wrote any of that.
It was someone else who went to the party at the Haze the weekend
that just past.  I was at the Haze two weekends ago and didn't
say anything racial about the kids there, just made remarks based on
the age laws in SF clubs.

Please keep me out of this.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 11:28:44 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 11:28:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kerry Jaggers <jaggedge@well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Re: >>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<<
To: ethan miller <nrg@netcom.com>
Cc: SFRaves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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On Tue, 19 Apr 1994, ethan miller wrote:

> >One thing Sean mentioned about Ethan getting them to turn down the
> >sound . . . one thing I'm realizing is how important the concept
> >of "enough" is to sound reinforcement. . .


  You Go, Ethan!!!   No-one is more <painfully> aware of the problems with 
Djs <who *may* play good tunes but have no listening for their environ> 
than those of us who must work in the same small, painfully loud, booth 
with them!   I do have a bit of a different view as to cause and effect, 
though:  I think the monitors are the enemy. 

I was a very successful club dj from 1975 thru the late 80's, working 
mostly in Texas, but also in NYC and SF, and was actually the original dj 
*and* light operator at 1015 when Ira got it in '86. Now I find I'm not 
as consumed by the need to be the one who introduces the music, so I try to 
work the space and support the DJs, the scene, and the music visually.
Somehow I kept 20/20 hearing while playing four to five night per week
in large clubs. I believe it is because I would not work in a space that 
required me to guess what the crowd was hearing while being locked away 
in a remote closet with a totally different sound system.  Trying to dj 
in the most booths in SF is sorta like trying to compete in the Indy 500, 
while driving by remote control from the press box.  You just don't have 
the same feel for the road and thus the ability to finesse the machinery 
to the same degree.

I've recently been told by my doctor that my left eardrum (the side 
towards the dj) is noticeably more inflamed at every checkup for the past 
year.  He says to expect that to evolve into a significant hearing loss.  
Now consider this:  I'm a good 8 feet or more from the monitors in the 
booth while the dj is INCHES away.  It's not hard to figure what's 
causing the poor sound quality in the clubs if you check out what the 
jocks are doing to their own ears!  I'd be willing to make a wager that 
very few if any will be hearing accurately <if at all> before we know 
it.  And who wants to listen to a deaf dj?   Roll over Beethoven!  

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 11:40:16 1994
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From: phuture@aol.com
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Message-Id: <9404191437.tn43691@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 94 14:37:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Hispanic Gangstas
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I just got through this thread and tend to agree with John, since race was
mentioned(Hispanic nonetheless) and this white boy got the same vibe.  I
recently had the chance to work on a recording project with some Chicano
rappers(who fit the description previously given) and I made some good
friends and learned a lot.  Here are some things I came away with. First,
Chicano is preferable to mexican which is preferable to latino which is
prefeable to hispanic.  There are large cultural differences among these
groups.  Chicanos have a distinctive culture here in California and
rightfully don't like to see it always lumped in with the diverse group of
cultures encompassed by a term like hispanic.  Second, these guys have had a
happening dance/party scene for a LONG time--decades with multiple
generations partying together.  There is a lot of history here with respect
to DJing and dancing.  Techno is very popular with a lot of the younger
generation.  OK, the hard, cool , macho thing can be a barrier--but that's
what it is.  Defensiveness is a way of life growing up in the enviroment they
did.  I have been to several parties, where the vibe got so huge that no one
could resist and the contribtution when this group opened up and expressed
was massive energy(not negative)--the party slammed!  Its about feeling
comfortable and that can be much harder for people who come from violent,
tough 'hoods.  Hip-hop(Chicano or regular flavor) is much abused and often
blamed for violence, but there is a lot of really positive music, art,
clothes and the rave scene has certainly benefitted from this cultural
crossover so far.  With so many questions about our scene's possible death
maybe the answers lie in this 'other' culture that many don't yet understand
or appreciate.
phuture   

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 12:21:01 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 14:21:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Keigo Goto  <kgoto@artsci.wustl.edu>
Subject: re: >>>Big sound etc...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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	I agree with having to much sound is going to kill us.  My 
suggestion is turn down the treble and mid-range sounds and let the bass 
do the trick.  From my experience loud bass doesn't make your ears ring 
only piercing treble does...

take care,
Dr. Goto



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 12:59:24 1994
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From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Message-Id: <199404192000.NAA13089@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: >>>Big sound etc...
To: kgoto@artsci.wustl.edu (Keigo Goto)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 13:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404191450.B21867-0100000@banana> from "Keigo Goto" at Apr 19, 94 02:21:05 pm
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My mailer says that Keigo Goto said:
> 
> 	I agree with having to much sound is going to kill us.  My 
> suggestion is turn down the treble and mid-range sounds and let the bass 
> do the trick.  From my experience loud bass doesn't make your ears ring 
> only piercing treble does...
> 
I heartily concur.  There are several issues in addition to the psycho-
acoustics: overal volume, equalization, room acoustics, and efficiency.
It is almost always the case that the mid-high and high frequency 
speakers are *lots* more efficient than the bass frequency drivers.
this is largely due to the fact that the power needed to move woofers
is substantially larger than tweeters: the magnets weigh more, and
they have to move a *lot* more air.  The room acoustics, if not taken
into account, can wreak havoc, since an improperly or unequalized
room will accentuate certain frequencies, attenuate others, and in
general turn the best system into mush.  If you can hear a room
resonate (sounds like you're inside a drum) at low frequencies (with
the bass beat), then the high frequencies are also going to resonate
(that is, be accentuated) potentially at very high power levels (perhaps
as much as 4 times the rated output power of the system---and that's
an incredible volume level).  

There is also a critical power level below which the room will be
predominated by *direct* sound, rather than *resonant* sound.  The
system at the Haze is a classic example of too much power for the
room.  Rooms sound much better if you keep the power below this
level, because when the room resonates, the music starts to sound
like mush.  This is because it takes *time* to build up that much 
energy, and *time* to dissipate that much energy. meanwhile, the 
program material (the record) may be a beat or two or even more, past
the sound that started it all--mush.

Folks familiar with acoustics: i'm taking some liberties with the terms
here. Bear with me, please.

So, another secret to good sound is the keep the volume below the
above-mentioned critical power level.  Finally, it is *necessary*
to equalize the sound system for the room.  This is because room
acoustics have an amazing effect at such high power levels. And
also because of the above-mentioned differences in efficiency between
the drivers.

Some of the ways that DJs can mess up the best laid plans of the sound
people are: turning the levels up at the mixer (results in distortion
being pushed through the system), messing substatially with the
equalizer on the mixer (kills the best tuning and results in that
painful high frequency ring), and not evening out the levels between
records. 

one of the problems that i personally have with certain kinds of music
is the predominance of high frequencies (at irregular intervals). rarely
are the systems tuned for worst case: usually just for average.  so, if
the material goes from being full frequencied to being very high level
high frequency material, the sound system exceeds the threshhold of pain
on that high frequency stuff, and blammo: Permanent Hearing Loss.

Badly tuned systems, over-powered systems, and the like do just that:
they CAUSE permanent hearing loss.  If your ears ring the day after
an event, you have been subjected to too much sound power. if you
hear distortion (especially at high frequencies), or your head kind
of hurts, you are being subjected to too much power. My suggestion
to anyone experiencing discomfort at a party because the sound is
too loud for you:  if you can find the promoter or a staff person,
demand they turn down the system.  if you can't find a responsible
person, leave and demand your money back.  Don't suffer.  No single
party is worth the possibility of permanent damage to your body. And
promoters should have the health and well-being of fellow-partiers
at heart.  if they don't, avoid supporting them if you can.

<stepping down from soapbox>
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@netcom.com-----
"We have a problem. Too many of you know who we are."  AMI
Semiconductor ad copy

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 13:02:22 1994
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From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Message-Id: <199404192003.NAA13434@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: >>>Big sound etc...
To: kgoto@artsci.wustl.edu (Keigo Goto)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 13:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404191450.B21867-0100000@banana> from "Keigo Goto" at Apr 19, 94 02:21:05 pm
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Oh, and another suggestion if it's too loud at an event: don't forget
to tell the DJ to turn it down.  They are as much responsible for the
loudness (in some senses, moreso) than the promoter(s).
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@netcom.com-----
"We have a problem. Too many of you know who we are."  AMI
Semiconductor ad copy

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 13:34:17 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 14:33:23 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: nrg@netcom.com, jaggedge@well.sf.ca.us
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Re: >>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<< -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

** Long message ... skip to ObSFrave if tech stuff bores you **

	With a good mixing board, a DJ can eliminate monitors all together
and mix inside headphones alone.  All that's required is a cueing
system that lets you hear the mix through one ear and the track
you're mixing in through the other.  The only problem is that it's
then harder to set the master levels properly, because you're
isolated (same as in a booth) and can't hear what it sounds like on
the main sound system.  You can't just rely on LEDs alone...  As far
as I can see, the only way to keep the sound quality good is to
constantly monitor what it sounds like on the dance floor.  This has
to be done either by the DJ or the sound people.  A good sound person
can do a great job, just by constantly eqing and adjusting various
levels.  Of course, clipping caused by the DJ overdriving the levels
will always be a problem, but that's why it helps if the sound guy
and the DJ can work together, and the DJ can drop his mixer levels,
so the sound guy can turn it up out on the floor.

ObSFrave:	What I think most promoters don't realize is that you
can't just set an amp stack over in the corner, run cable to the
speakers, turn the amps up to full volume and let it go...  A good
sound system takes lots of tuning, and precision placement of the
speakers.  Even though some promoters are starting to realize this,
there's still a lot that don't and it's kind of sad.  I hate events
where you feel as if the sound system is _physically_ damaging you. 
I've heard good sound enough that I know it can be loud, and bassy,
the kind of bass you feel, without hurting your ears.

>>> Kerry Jaggers <jaggedge@well.sf.ca.us>  4/19/94, 12:28pm >>>

> >One thing Sean mentioned about Ethan getting them to turn down the
> >sound . . . one thing I'm realizing is how important the concept
> >of "enough" is to sound reinforcement. . .


  You Go, Ethan!!!   No-one is more <painfully> aware of the problems
with  Djs <who *may* play good tunes but have no listening for their
environ>  than those of us who must work in the same small, painfully
loud, booth  with them!   I do have a bit of a different view as to
cause and effect,  though:  I think the monitors are the enemy. 

I was a very successful club dj from 1975 thru the late 80's, working
 mostly in Texas, but also in NYC and SF, and was actually the
original dj  *and* light operator at 1015 when Ira got it in '86. Now
I find I'm not  as consumed by the need to be the one who introduces
the music, so I try to  work the space and support the DJs, the
scene, and the music visually.
Somehow I kept 20/20 hearing while playing four to five night per
week in large clubs. I believe it is because I would not work in a
space that  required me to guess what the crowd was hearing while
being locked away  in a remote closet with a totally different sound
system.  Trying to dj  in the most booths in SF is sorta like trying
to compete in the Indy 500,  while driving by remote control from the
press box.  You just don't have  the same feel for the road and thus
the ability to finesse the machinery  to the same degree.

I've recently been told by my doctor that my left eardrum (the side 
towards the dj) is noticeably more inflamed at every checkup for the
past  year.  He says to expect that to evolve into a significant
hearing loss.   Now consider this:  I'm a good 8 feet or more from
the monitors in the  booth while the dj is INCHES away.  It's not
hard to figure what's  causing the poor sound quality in the clubs if
you check out what the  jocks are doing to their own ears!  I'd be
willing to make a wager that  very few if any will be hearing
accurately <if at all> before we know  it.  And who wants to listen
to a deaf dj?   Roll over Beethoven!  



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 15:18:17 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 94 18:10:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Bad audio
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

You know what would be really cool is to get one of the AKG or Neumann dummy
head microphone systems and hang it or mount it out above the crowd.  The DJ
would then have a true binaural stereo monitor source--he'd literally have a
head in the crowd.  The voulume issue wouldn't be automatically resolved, but
the DJ (or soundperson) would then have a much more accurate idea of what the
system sounds like out on the floor.
phuture

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 15:52:06 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404192250.AA06868@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: >>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<< -Reply
In-Reply-To: <sdb3ecf9.052@wordperfect.com>
References: <sdb3ecf9.052@wordperfect.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

What really bugs me is how many DJs just jam the knobs all the way up.
They were doing this at Wicked in 174 King St. I remember seeing it in
the back room at the Gathering in Richmond Civic Center. All the red
LEDs were on all the time. And both systems sounded like shit, because
mixing decks introduce distortion when you push them into the red.
Even if one has a compressor-limiter between the board and the amp so
it _can't_ be turned up too loud, all that distortion is still there.

It's really a shame, because I bet most DJs just don't know how shitty
those records--the ones they sweated blood finding--sound to the
crowd.

And as far as stuff being too loud... I bet OSHA would have a word or
two to say about it. Anyone filed a workman's comp yet? :)

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 15:55:17 1994
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From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404192255.PAA09718@soda.berkeley.edu>
To: jaggedge@well.sf.ca.us, nrg@netcom.com
Subject: Re: >>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<<
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	i always bring earplugs to shows and work (often the
	same thing for me.)  i have them in a little case that
	i keep on my toilet-bead necklace.  i actually prefer
	high sound pressure level enviornments, especially when
	i am running lights, but i always protect myself.

cali


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 16:20:58 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404192320.AA07933@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
In-Reply-To: <199404191402.HAA09257@mail.netcom.com>
References: <199404191402.HAA09257@mail.netcom.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

John S. Lee writes:
 > >  >I
 > >  >did notice at least 2 distinct groups did I not ? ( I'm new remember )
 > >  >Group 1 are presumed Ravers (TM) dancing mid floor all smiles etc.
 > >  >Group 2 are presumed Gangers (??) mostly Hispanic, mostly stern, didn't
 > >  >  seem to like the music, certainly didn't dance.
 > 
 > What the *FUCK* is this shit?  Let me get this straight:
 > 
 > Group 1 MUST be mostly white, peaceful beings with all love in mind.
 > Group 2 MUST be the others, bangers, whatever...

I was there, and Mike's assessment of it was correct. From Mike's
statements, the following conclusions are NOT supported:

Group 1 was caucasion. They may have been mostly black, indian, asian,
or of mixed races. They were in fact of mixed races.

Hispanics are gangsters. Group 2 was mostly hispanic, but that does
not imply the opposite is true.

All of the asshole security guards were wearing yellow jackets. Not
all the security guards were assholes. Not everyone wearing a yellow
jacket was an asshole, and it would be foolish to assume so.

Mike was making an observation without judgement, and me having been
there to confirm it, it was an accurate one. I don't think an angry
response is justified. If Mike doesn't like the gangster look and
attitude, then that's a differerent issue to be taken up.

Personally, I don't like being around the "angry testosterone" vibe,
though I respect people's right to be and feel however they like. I
just choose to not be around them. I've had enough anger and hate for
three lifetimes. I wish to embrace something else. And that is _my_
choice.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 16:29:55 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Subject: "MOTION" Wed./ J. Howard & R. Preston
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Sfraves,

john Howard and Rick Preston will be at Motion-10-2:OOam.
 400 S. 1st Street-San Jose

The new Info phone number is (408) 236-3732.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 17:22:22 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Anyone else having trouble with vrave?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


I haven't been able to get to it in days... The machine pings okay and the
SMTP port is alive.

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 17:51:49 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 17:51:38 -0700
In-Reply-To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
        "I just don't get it, AT ALL!" (Apr 19,  7:02am)
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Keep it goin' your*self*, John S. Lee.  

Great postings the last couple of days.  

As for me, I keep going where the music is interesting and the people are
good, and see no end to either of those situations, so therefore no chanc
of the scene 'dying'.  Changing, yes.  Take it from one who's been living
on the front lines of the record bins for the last six months -- we are
in a golden era for the music, when *every* style from club disco to
the fastest gabber has great tracks coming out all the time.  (You
didn't catch me saying the good ones are *easy* to find, they never are!)
What seems to be changing most is the taste of the audience, broadly
considered, for all this kind of music.  The intense convergence of
1991-92 is over, and a thousand flowers and considerable confusion are
blooming.  

On the commercial tip, the word in the biz is 'get commercial'.  This is
the theme throughout the trade rags I get.  One representative example -
the main wheel at ZYX Records, a Brooklyn label with a German operation
that covers a fairly broad range of music but focuses on club releases,
says "no more dub tracks," that is, no more non-vocal remixes from their
label, in an effort to develop "identifiable" artists (a la M People,
2 Unlimited, others of greater or lesser merit).  On the other end of
the spectrum are the hardcore and jungle labels which seem determined to
drive as much as possible into harder-and-faster territory no matter who
they leave behind.  In some ways I don't mind either trend, but underneath
it is an air of exclusivity about the desired target audience that I really
don't like, instead of an attitude of adherence to quality music and
educating rather than satiating the audience.  

But we've seen this pattern before, for example the 1979-81 era where
punk and new wave severed their fragile alliance and headed off in their
own directions.  But that opens up fresh territory for new approaches,
like the American-jangly-guitar bands of the mid-1980s exemplified by
REM or Husker Du who really weren't directly from either tradition.

I expect clubs to get clubbier, the underground to go more under, and
some openings for those adept at finding the fertile spaces in between.

So jslee, you GO!!

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 18:06:33 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 18:01:05 -0700
In-Reply-To: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
        ">>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<<" (Apr 19, 10:24am)
References: <199404191721.KAA24173@mail.netcom.com>
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I couldn't possibly say it any better than Ethan just did.

*Some* people get off on bass thumps that practically boil your blood.
I am *not* one of those people.  When the bass *permeates* you and
helps get you energized and you can still hear every point on the audio
spectrum with excellent clarity. . . then you *got* me!

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 18:07:16 1994
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From: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Physics Lab
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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I met two guys in my UCB physics 7a lab on Tuesday who say they sub to 
this list.  Remember me?  I forgot to get your names and/or e-mail 
addresses.  RSVP if you get this (which you should, I guess).

Later

Sami

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 18:20:35 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 17:57:29 -0700
In-Reply-To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com (Lee Fogel)
        "Our scene In The Light" (Apr 19,  8:36am)
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Of COURSE we want May 28 to be an inclusive one, Lee.  Which is why
I'm planning to be there if I can possibly manage it.

I'm all for providing a way for people to distribute messages, do voter
reg, whatever, at In the Light.  But as many of you have heard me rant
about to the point of boredom or worse, the biggest contribution I think
we can make is to have really great events that make a reality of the
underlying principles we talk about as important to us and which keep
drawing us toward public gatherings involving music and interaction and
all that good stuff.  Anything less, as jslee keeps putting it, is
frontin' pure and simple.  We gotta walk it like we talk it.


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 19:03:39 1994
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From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: In The Light
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Long before I had a sound system or thought of being a dj I used to go out
to parties every week and bring a table, a blacklight and neon body paints.
I never met a promoter that wouldn't let me in free. I'd set up the paints,
hang out while it was still early, meet people, talk, joke, help out etc.
After a while I'd leave the paints and go dance. Every once and a while I'd
come back and clean up a little, refill the paint saucers and then go dance
some more. People loved the paints. I remember at the first Imagination at
Townsend/King St. I came back at 6am and these two people who were just
*lit* had been sitting there for hours painting each other. They both had
full-body, neon tribal work of astonishing complexity. Wow.

I remember knowing then, quite clearly, that my *active* particapatory
positive energy was an absolutely essential ingredient in any party I
happened to be at, that a good party was something we all had to build
together, that *any* party could be a great one if everyone there took
responsibility for making it one. Nobody dances until someone dances. Faces
are mail reflectors; smile and the world smiles with you.

I think I'm only recently realising that I got bored of 'consuming' raves a
long time ago. I think I started throwing parties, doing sound, dj-ing,
etc. because it *ensured*, for me, a particpatory experience. And, in
truth, I have the best times at the small (often *very* small;) parties
that we do together.

sfraves is something very, very special. I won't try and define it. We all
love it for our very own and exactly the same reasons. It is a community,
it gives meaning.

In The Light is yet another chance for us to do it our way, to make it mean
something. May 28th lets get *together* and put a sonic dent in the fucking
universe. 

(That's the cool thing about sound you know, it just keeps on goin.)

:)

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 21:41:10 1994
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From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Race rubbish...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Oversensitive me...

I guess you just have to walk on eggshells when posting on the list, lest
JSL jump all over your ass....UNTRUE.

C'mon people let's face it.  As much as many would HATE to admit it, CA is
as racist as racist can be.  The Bay Area is certainly no exception to this
rule.  And CA in general is pretty bad.

In Miami we do not have skinners (or didn't when I left years back;  if
they're there now, they are most likely dead).  Sure got 'em here tho!  The
west coast is home to these creeps.  SF was a bastion for these pigs for
the longest time.  Ask certain...forget it.

KKK?  Yeah sure, but not as many as CA (in 1950 the LARGEST KKK contingent
was in Anaheim CA. >40000  The city council was chock full of 'em.  Home of
DIsney == Home of the KKK.  Real California dreamin').

Guys like Metzger were so underground in Miami cuz' you got every non-white
type in FL. Most Metzger types had to escape North & West to get some
acceptance.  It seems they found fertile ground in Az., Texas, all the way
to the hotbed of fermentable thought, CA.  Numbers do bear me out on this.

So what's up?  What's with me getting all chip-on-the-shoulderish with the
simple term, gangsta?  Hey, he (Mike) was only talkin about:

Clothes/fashion.
A small group who was not necessarily minority.
A group of folx not into the vibe.

And *I* am the racist because:
He never said the first group was white, *I* did.

The trend:
There has been so much gangsta talk.  Either it's gangsta-moll, or gangsta
type.  I have seen post, after post from a few on the list, using this
reference.  And I and *SOME* others of color have begun to ask:

Who are they talking about?
What are they talking about?
What are they seeing that we're not?

I have noticed that the term is used primarily to denote those of
non-european ancestry (i.e. non-white for the sake of converstaion).  And
it is most often used to distinguish the real "loving" ravers, from those
who supposedly do not belong.  I guess it is coincidental that whenever
there is a greater presence of latino/chicano/hispanics or blacks/af. am.s
that this term is used more often.
Ok it's a coincidence, I am being oversensitive (why else would I be so
observant as to notice how/why/when it's used ) ;).

I have also noticed that when a party does not have many of the, er group
2's  ;), that the term disappears.  I guess it's a coincidence, and I am
being oversensitive.

I have also noticed that the news always shows blacks and latinos getting
arrested when it comes to gang activity, or drugs (even though the
consumers are for the most part white; as well as the kingpins [bka US
Govt.]).  But I guess I should never believe the news, or even watch it.
It may sensitize me.

On the other hand I have to ask: Why are these classifications being used,
in a community that prides itself on breaking down barriers?  Why classify,
and allow classification based upon appearance rather than deed?  Is the
concept of measuring a person by his/her deeds and character gone to the
wayside while appearance, once again has taken the forefront?  Is judging
by character now considered PC?

A gangsta would, from *my* experience:
Kick your ass for looking at him/her for 1/4 sec.
Call you out, and kick your ass for stepping in his/her space.
Kick your ass because you're there and he/she's there.
Steeping into territory where you do not belong.
Shoot your ass on a good day.

Dress is unimportant.  There are certain styles of dress, but it varies
from group to group.  There is susally a signal of some sorts that is done
before things are done, and afterward.  Soemtimes there are even colors.

There is a west coast style, as well as an east coast style.  In both
dress, and deed.

By the time you notice them, it's too late.


Now I ask AGAIN, what gangsters has anyone seen at a party?
What gang was it?
What colors?
Where is their territory?
Do they go to BASICS?  Wicked?  Etc.

Why would they SPEND money to get into a place, when they would do just as
well to bum rush it?  Especially if it costs $20 to get in?

I submit that the term has been used as a classification of certain groups
of people based along race lines.  That's why I blew up.

I know I'm not oversensitive because:
I went to an industrial show a while back, saw many bald headed white guys,
in all black, army boots, white tee shirts.  I never assumed they were
skinners.  I assumed they are a bunch of dudes with bald heads.  I was
re-assured when one of the guys black/latina girlfriend gave him a whopping
kiss.  He even said, "What's up bra'" as we were all leaving.  This was in
Strong Beach , CA. (long beach)  Bald headed, yes.  Skinhead however would
be a stretch....my mediocrity was defeated and I then knew my calling ;)

And that's what I'm sayin....There are two type of mutha's born in this
world, some would say three:  Good, Bad, & Ugly.  All are IMHO determined
by their actions, not what the fuck they wear, not what the fuck color they
are, only through someone's deed or LACK of it can a determination be made
as to a person's worth.  Anything less is weakness.  And anyone not
attacking such weakness is, in my little corner of the world, a traitor to
humanity at best.
I just wish people would see thru the bullshit and get to what's under the
skin, cuz that is REAL.

*** John S. Lee, it is written, then takes the staff of G-d, spreads it
over the SF Bay and parts the water.  He then looks over his shoulder to
see that Mediocrites, struck in awe of the power of G-d, stop, allowing the
masses to cross the now parted bay.  With rubber boots on, the Partyites
cross the bay, to seek refuge in the land of milk, honey, E (fruit and
veggies for those on a strict no-dose diet), SoundVision, and Hella DJ's
spinning that is called, er uh, The Land of Milk and Honey.  Somewhere
north of Telegraph (SF is paved over ). It is written, it is done. ***

Audi 5,
John





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                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
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             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
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From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 21:41:34 1994
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To: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>
>Mike was making an observation without judgement, and me having been
>there to confirm it, it was an accurate one. I don't think an angry
>response is justified. If Mike doesn't like the gangster look and
>attitude, then that's a differerent issue to be taken up.

Please inform me as to *WHAT* constitutes the ganster look. I would like to
know?

Did you see ANY of them signing/signaling?
Did you see any colors?

I would like to know.

>
>Personally, I don't like being around the "angry testosterone" vibe,
>though I respect people's right to be and feel however they like. I
>just choose to not be around them. I've had enough anger and hate for
>three lifetimes. I wish to embrace something else. And that is _my_
>choice.
>
>Sean

Agreed.  But when you talk about gangsters, *who* are you talking about?  I
mean, do they come from Concord?  BlackHawk?  Where do these gangsters come
from?  Where do they live?  Has there been ANY gang activity in our scene?
Where?  How did you *KNOW* they were gangsta's, if you knew at all?

I despise the "angry testosterone" vibe (one of the many reasons I stay
away from "hardcore" parties ;) ).  But really, this classification
nonsense should stop, if we are to move on as a community.  This scene as
far as I am concerned, needs an injection of diversity if it's gonna last.
All the classification, and re-classification is killing it; the numbers
tell all.  Time for new ways of thinking.  Time to call a human a human and
leave it at that.  Time to know the good thru the deed, and the bad thru
the greed.  Let's get real.

Pax,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
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             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
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From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 21:41:43 1994
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To: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>> >  >did notice at least 2 distinct groups did I not ? ( I'm new remember )
>> >  >Group 1 are presumed Ravers (TM) dancing mid floor all smiles etc.
>> >  >Group 2 are presumed Gangers (??) mostly Hispanic, mostly stern, didn't
>> >  >  seem to like the music, certainly didn't dance.
>>
>> What the *FUCK* is this shit?  Let me get this straight:
>>
>> Group 1 MUST be mostly white, peaceful beings with all love in mind.
>> Group 2 MUST be the others, bangers, whatever...
>
>No.  She wrote "presumed Ravers."  She made no specified comment on
>their race or their mindset.  You assumed benevolent, innocent, white
>people in accordance with whatever stereotype *you* have.

Wrong.  Omission says as much as mentioning it.  LOOK at what he said:
Group 2 are presumed Gangers (??) mostly Hispanic, <-
This is all one thought one sentence.  What the hell else was I to think of
the previous?  Which was:
Group 1 are presumed Ravers (TM) dancing mid floor all smiles etc.

By mentioning that the second group was hispanic the classification
started.  It really didn't matter *who* the other group was, but I have
found that these statements, especially classifications are genrally not
made by the people who are being classified.  ESPECIALLY in this scene.  I
have not heard brothers or sistahs who are of color say "Man, there were
alot of bangers there..." it always seems to come from a certain segment of
the population.  It comes thru the news (white-elite owned), thru movies
(white-elite owned), and thru various stereotypes that have poisoned this
society.

>Who's being
>racist now?

My Ashkenaze Jewish wife as well as my bi-racial son would get a *real*
kick out of this one ;).

>She then made observations based on what she saw.

SHE said nothing....thus my post.

>Stern,
>not dancing, didn't like the music: that's easy enough to see.

Is it?  So when I go out, have my arms folded, looking around, no smiles, I
guess that would be stern, or would it just be my way of easing into an
experience?

>Then she
>made an observation on their race--*not* pro or con, just that it existed
>and that she saw it.

Race, and the concpet of race does not "just exist".  It is one of the MANY
methods used by those in power (who happen to be white), to  keep people at
each others throats.  Just another way to point out THEM from US.  The
second you stop seeing THEM the US becomes stronger.  And that's what I'm
pissed about.  Too much THEM/US.  Epsecially along racial lines.  So
regressive, so stupid, so old.

>It is sad that no longer can one make simple
>observations without encountering some unspoken social code that employs
>reactionary Macarthyistic attitudes.

You are DAMN right.  There are social codes we all have to follow.  You
break them, you face certain consequences, that is your right as well.  The
social code is quite clear, if you wanna follow it then cool, if not then
deal with the consequences.  You can't go around calling people racial
epithets, without at some time someone crackin your skull.  And if you want
to engage in classification based upon something as benign and
old-fashioned as race, then you can enjoy the 21st century quite alone.

As for simple observations:  Tell me what a gangster is and how many YOU
have seen at parties.

What did they look like and *HOW* did you know they were gangsters?
What *does* a gangster look like?

>
>Please don't assume that everyone on this list is white, etc, etc.  I'm
>not, others aren't either.
>
>Sami

Hello?!?!?!?  Did I say that everyone was white?  Where did you get THAT
idea?  Are you feeling "white guilt" or something ;)  I dunno.  I made no
assumption.  I've met some people on the list, and the one thing I do know
is that it is a rainbow of sorts.  Some colors of it are more abundant than
others, but a rainbow nonetheless.  Please don't assume that I assume
anything about this list.  I do however deplore racist statements, and
deplore people who ignore them; whether they be white, black, yellow,
brown, red, I could give a damn.  Racist rubbish is a blight.


Pax,
John

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                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
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Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
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From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 19 22:10:18 1994
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From: Sun Kim <sunkim@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Full Moon NOT on Apr 24/25?
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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I'm troubled by something folks.  I called the Wicked line today.  I
find out the Earth Day Wicked is this Friday, the 22nd.  Then after
that, Allain goes ahead and says that the Full Moon will be the week
after.  The week after?  It will not be held on an actual lunar Full
Moon?  Has this happened before?
 
I'm really distressed over this because I have three friends that are
supposed to come up this weekend to attend the Full Moon party with me.
I'm going to be very disappointed if the Full Moon doesn't happen this
week.  I'll probably end up going to Organic with them or Funky S.F.
Anybody have any info on Funky S.F.?

Sun

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Subject: re:race rubbish
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howdy

i may regret this but $.02

in response to the racist as racist can be note on CA.

i was in malta (a small island in the middle of the mediterranan
(fcuk-up sp but that is not the point).  There i meet some of the nicest
people that i have EVER meet in my life.  good soild people.  after
staying and talking to them for close to two weeks found something out.
they were discusing there biz (guest house owners) and very matter a
factly told us that of course they don't allow arabs to stay there.  in
that way that suprises you: "of course you agree there is no question
about it right".  this kind of racism always bothers me the most.  it is
deeply accepted as a resonable and correct pt-o-vw.

here in CA i find most of the shit to be at more of a surface level.
people will defend there pt-o-vw if called on it (as a non-racist i've
nvr heard a good arguement but.. ).  rather then just deeply beliving
that people should not allow to be.

so ca is racist and so is the whole damn world.  after watching
perviously unreasled footage from the final-solution camps last night CA
is not as racist as racist can be.

remember were those *five-star-states* are, every time that that crap
seems to be over something dumb happens.

peace

disclaimer: this is not a flame, please dont take it that way (:-)

CHE



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From: child@netcom.com (Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild)
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just testing to see why I didn't recieve my last post.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 01:00:34 1994
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From: "D. Ronan Hallowell" <holo@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: >>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<<
To: ethan miller <nrg@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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I couldn't agree more with Ethan's astute assessment.

Quality not volume is #1


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 07:10:02 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
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Subject: No "Official" SB Lunch This Week
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Hello Folks!

 In case anyone was wondering which day the South Bay lunch is going to be 
be this week , I decided not to "officially" announce one , since I'm still
receiving opinions about the location and time. However , I'll be there 
at Greer Park today at 12:30 , just to get my weekly dose of sunshine
and fresh air - I'll bring the "boom-box" too.

	Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
 ( poll results to follow ... ) 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
today's "unofficial" SFR South Bay Lunch ...

When: Wednesday  
Time: 12.30 PM 
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
  Northbound: Past San Antonio Road 
  Southbound: Past University Avenue 

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Turn into the first 
  driveway on your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll , behind the round baseball fence.
  Next to the restrooms and ball courts.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!
------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: New day/time/site for the South Bay Lunch 
 Results So Far: It seems that most of the folks who responded can make
  it Wednesday at 12:30 . Menlo Park seems like the absolute northern
  most location , as the work-to-park-and-back distance would be too
  far for some folks - even Menlo Park was bad for one person.

 
 Diane Tabellija sent in some suggestions , which I've edited and listed
below:
 
> Downtown PA:
>- Johnson Park bounded by Waverly and Everett & Hawthorne (no bathrooms 
>  but #1 choice).
>- City hall with the grass and the tables and chairs.
>- A small mini-park near the Palo Alto Medical Center between Channing/
>  Addison near Scott St. (no bathrooms)
>- A grassy area w/ benches on Lytton across from the Gatehouse.

>Oh I should also mention that meeting in downtown PA can be bad because of
>parking so good luck in finding a spot.  

 Also , for me , driving from HW101 to downtown PA and back would cut
a lot of time out from my lunch schedule, and looking for parking would
be worst. Maybe a weekend? ....

> ...Flood Park is good.  It's off of Hwy 101/Marsh Road Exit.  Turn left 
>(fake South) onto Bay Road and proceed until you see a sign for Flood Park 
>(turn left into the park and find a specific place to meet since it's a 
>big park). "
 
 It it's off HW101 , that would be great. I'll have to check a map to 
see how much more driving time is involved , as opposed to Greer Park.

 Keep those sugestions for a site coming!

	Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com






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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 09:19:42 -0700
In-Reply-To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
       "Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE" (Apr 19,  9:23pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee), csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

On Apr 19,  9:23pm, Jay Ess Ell Double-E said:
(quoting Sean)
} >Personally, I don't like being around the "angry testosterone" vibe,
} >though I respect people's right to be and feel however they like. I
} >just choose to not be around them. I've had enough anger and hate for
} >three lifetimes. I wish to embrace something else. And that is _my_
} >choice.
} 
} Agreed.  But when you talk about gangsters, *who* are you talking about?  I
} mean, do they come from Concord?  BlackHawk?  Where do these gangsters come
} from?  Where do they live?  Has there been ANY gang activity in our scene?
} Where?  How did you *KNOW* they were gangsta's, if you knew at all?

I wasn't there so I'm not going to defend the classification, I'll only
say that the "gangsta" "look" doesn't have to be qualified by whether or
not someone's really in a hardcore gang or not.  My dad could sport over-
size jeans, a plaid shirt buttons at the top button, and a red bandana,
and a scowl across his face, and some would say he's sporting a "gangsta
look".  Whether or not it strikes YOU as a racist classification, John,
to most of us it simply classifies a look and perhaps lifestyle, and
I've seen all shades of skin color sporting that look.  

} I despise the "angry testosterone" vibe (one of the many reasons I stay
} away from "hardcore" parties ;) ).  But really, this classification
} nonsense should stop, if we are to move on as a community. 

Whoa whoa whoa... why do we have to lose our sense of subjectivity in
order to act as a community?  We should always have the right to call a
spade a spade, and in the case that started this whole thing, the
"gansta look" wasn't what distinguished that group of people as being
a problem, it was that "angry testosterone" vibe that accompanied it.
The two are not synonymous, and no one was suggesting they were.  I've
seen people with the "gangsta look" wiggling their behinds at lots of
parties.  

And good thing you put that smiley in there, or we'd really think you
really meant to associate "angry testosterone" with "hardcore" parties.

} This scene as
} far as I am concerned, needs an injection of diversity if it's gonna last.
} All the classification, and re-classification is killing it; the numbers
} tell all.  Time for new ways of thinking.  Time to call a human a human and
} leave it at that.  Time to know the good thru the deed, and the bad thru
} the greed.  Let's get real.

	Diversity we need, yes.  But let's be clear: we need to
destory the cliqueishness going on in the scene, not "classification",
Classification agreed is a tool people use to define their clique at
times, but as long as it isn't based on an unfair basis like race or
creed or income level or "you don't ususally go to these parties, what
are you doing here?", what's the problem?

	Brian

	

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 10:09:11 1994
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 09:58:12 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404201658.JAA06281@well.sf.ca.us>
To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, csc@pilot.njin.net, jsl@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

brian's freudian slip:
	>We should always have the right to call a
	>spade a spade...

next we'll be calling a hoe, ho.  ?-)  

(the aforementioned is a bad to-early-in-the-mornig-to-be-on-the-computer
joke, but for those self-righteous judgemental snits on this list who wish
to flame me for being racist, or too droll, or just not funny, take it
offline, please.)

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 10:14:52 1994
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 10:00:52 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: Full Moon NOT on Apr 24/25?
Cc: sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

> 
>I'm troubled by something folks.  I called the Wicked line today.  I
>find out the Earth Day Wicked is this Friday, the 22nd.  Then after
>that, Allain goes ahead and says that the Full Moon will be the week
>after.  The week after?  It will not be held on an actual lunar Full
>Moon?  Has this happened before?
> 
>I'm really distressed over this because I have three friends that are
>supposed to come up this weekend to attend the Full Moon party with me.
>I'm going to be very disappointed if the Full Moon doesn't happen this
>week.  I'll probably end up going to Organic with them or Funky S.F.
>Anybody have any info on Funky S.F.?
>
>Sun

There *will be* a full-blown, sfr-flavored renegade (with audio by
soundvision :) this weekend. Stay tuned or, better yet, get involved :)

you know where to find us
ethan

                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 10:38:51 1994
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From: calvin@cats.ucsc.edu
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: blue cube?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


   hi.  right before i left for spring break (a couple weeks ago) i noticed
a message about the possibility of having another blue cube party.  did i
miss it, or has it not happened yet?  i was just wondering...thanks   =)

matt
calvin@cats.ucsc.edu

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 10:38:53 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
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To: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Cc: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, csc@pilot.njin.net, jsl@netcom.com,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Close Encounters, Chicago & RACE
In-Reply-To: <199404201658.JAA06281@well.sf.ca.us>
References: <199404201658.JAA06281@well.sf.ca.us>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Randy Tinkerman writes:
 > brian's freudian slip:
 > 	>We should always have the right to call a
 > 	>spade a spade...
 > 
 > next we'll be calling a hoe, ho.  ?-)  

For the record, there are a lot of uses and phrases associated with
the term "spade". Only one of them is considered offensive and is not
very commonly used. "Calling a spade a spade" is not a racist term.

1spade \'spa^-d\ n
[ME, fr. OE spadu; akin to Gk spathe^- blade of a sword or oar, OHG
     spa^-n chip of wood -- more at SPOON]
(bef. 12c)
1: a digging implement adapted for being pushed into the ground with
     the foot
2: a spade-shaped instrument
-- spade-ful \-,fu-l\ n 
-- call a spade a spade
1: to call a thing by its right name however coarse
2: to speak frankly 

2spade vb  spad-ed; spad-ing vt
(1647)
:to dig up or out or shape with or as if with a spade
~ vi: to use a spade
-- spad-er n 

3spade n
[It spada or Sp espada broad sword; both fr. L spatha, fr. Gk spathe^-
     blade]
(1598)
1a: a black figure that resembles a stylized spearhead on each playing
     card of one of the four suits; also: a card marked with this
     figure
1b pl but sing or pl in constr: the suit comprising cards marked with
     a spade
2: NEGRO -- usu. taken to be offensive
-- in spades: to an unusually great degree: in the extreme 
============
Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th Ed., Copyright 1991 Oxford Univ. Press

/spade/1 <<speId>> n. & v. 

n. 
1. a tool used for digging or cutting the ground etc., with a sharp-edged
   metal blade and a long handle.
2. a tool of a similar shape for various purposes, e.g. for removing the
   blubber from a whale.
3. anything resembling a spade.

v.tr. dig over (ground) with a spade. 

"call a spade a spade" speak plainly or bluntly.

"spade beard" an oblong-shaped beard.

"spade foot" a square spadelike enlargement at the end of a chair-leg.

/spadeful/ n. (pl. /-fuls/). 

OE spadu, spada 

/spade/2 <<speId>> n. 
1. 
   a. a playing-card of a suit denoted by black inverted heart-shaped
      figures with small stalks.
   b. (in "pl.") this suit.
2. [sl.] [offens.] a Black.

"in spades" [sl.] to a high degree, with great force.

"spade guinea" [hist.] a guinea of George III's reign with a spade-shaped
shield on the reverse.

It. spade pl. of spada sword f. L spatha f. Gk spath&emac., rel. to
/spade/1: assoc. with the shape of a pointed spade 
============

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 13:47:20 1994
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 09:47:56 PDT
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404201648.AA00719@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: caliban@soda.berkeley.edu, grigsby@agames.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        uunet!soda.berkeley.edu!caliban@uunet.UU.NET, winston@lurnix.COM
Subject: Re:  Christian raves?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

how can you say that christianity advocates killing of
        non-believers (and that the bible *supports* this, which
        is the main point you made) when the first and foremost
        *prime directive* of the new testament is "thou shall
        not kill"?  think about this for a moment.  now read on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Actualy Cali, I didn't realy say or imply this, I think you misunderstood
me or the poster before me.  My point is to discredit the bible due to
it's many inconsistencies and inaccuracies to show that it is not a writing
that was "sponsered" by god, thus the doctarines of all christian churches
are fudamentaly flawed.  I beleive we all on this list would have partied
with Jesusa and he was most surely a cool dude, even if he did claim to 
be god (unless he realy was in which case he was a REAL cool dude).

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 13:47:35 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404201803.AA00850@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!netcom.com!jsl@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

C'mon people let's face it.  As much as many would HATE to admit it, CA is
as racist as racist can be.  The Bay Area is certainly no exception to this
rule.  And CA in general is pretty bad.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRONG!  This isn't worth arguing as I'm sure nobody belies it, not even you
John.



The trend:
There has been so much gangsta talk.  Either it's gangsta-moll, or gangsta
type.  I have seen post, after post from a few on the list, using this
reference.  And I and *SOME* others of color have begun to ask:

Who are they talking about?
What are they talking about?
What are they seeing that we're not?

I have noticed that the term is used primarily to denote those of
non-european ancestry (i.e. non-white for the sake of converstaion).  And
it is most often used to distinguish the real "loving" ravers, from those
who supposedly do not belong.  I guess it is coincidental that whenever
there is a greater presence of latino/chicano/hispanics or blacks/af. am.s
that this term is used more often.
Ok it's a coincidence, I am being oversensitive (why else would I be so
observant as to notice how/why/when it's used ) ;).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well because of the input I've recieved from "gangstas" themselves, I and
it seems others thought that a "gangsta" was different from a gangster and
that "gangsta" didn't mena you had to be part of a gang just a hard tough-
guy/girl that dresses gangsterish and emits "hard" vibes.  And no John, it's
not just you and others of color who have begun to ask what they are talking
about we all did and I thought that I had it figured out with the above
definition.  And you haven't "noticed that the term is used primarily
to denote those of non-european ancestry" because it wasn't in the posts, 
your assuming it.


I have also noticed that the news always shows blacks and latinos getting
arrested when it comes to gang activity, or drugs (even though the
consumers are for the most part white; as well as the kingpins [bka US
Govt.]).  But I guess I should never believe the news, or even watch it.
It may sensitize me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The news is skewed and racist because they focus on this stuff but blacks
and latinos do comprise most of the street gangs and that drug consumers
are mostly white is bull shit.  Especialy if you mean crack.  It was a 
popular un-fact for a while that white people were the primary crack 
consumers but then the facts came out.  As a generality, blacs deal and
consume crack, whites deal and consume powder and the laws are indeed
racist because there are harsher penalites for crack by weight.


On the other hand I have to ask: Why are these classifications being used,
in a community that prides itself on breaking down barriers?  Why classify,
and allow classification based upon appearance rather than deed?  Is the
concept of measuring a person by his/her deeds and character gone to the
wayside while appearance, once again has taken the forefront?  Is judging
by character now considered PC?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been anoyed for quite a while when people start complaining about
classifications because although we should always no a person is deeper
than the outside shows, for the most part classifications are self-imposed.
When someone dresses like a raver they wanna be seen that way.
When someone dresses like a goth they wanna be seen that way.
When someone dresses like a hippy they wanna be seen that way.
When someone dresses like a gangsta they wanna be seen that way.

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 13:56:23 1994
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Message-Id: <199404202035.NAA20699@holonet.net>
Subject: Race, Sex, Drugs, $$$, Scene
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 13:35:08 PDT
From: "David M. Ilstrup" <dmi@holonet.net>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Hi Kidz, so here's my $0.02 regarding this discussion of race, gangsta's etc.

Not every guy in a T-Shirt standing around with his arms crossed is a 'gangsta'.
Not every phunkily attired 'raver' is full of love and happiness.
Not every white guy with a shaved head is a skinhead nazi.
Not every 'goth' is full of gloom and wants to drink your blood.
Not every person in a biznis suit and tie wants nothing but money.
	-etc.-, but you know that already really...

Com'on people. If this scene is supposed to be about 'acceptance' then it is
going to take some work. Most of the 'scenes' I know about or take part in
are about identification. There is something that everyone has in common that
draws them in. Maybe this is obvious, but I feel it needs to be said because.

	Acceptance does not equal identification

Some scenes are mixed racially, like many Jazz clubs.
Some scenes are mixed economically, like many bars in the City.
Some scenes are very polarized by race and age, like parts of the punk scene.

The point is that the demographics vary wildly, but each social environment
has a focal point (maybe a fuzzy one) of interest. Please call me on it if
I'm wrong, but raving to me as it stands is just a psychedelic dance party,
with a few extra flavors thrown in. Don't get me wrong, I *love* psychedelic
dance parties, that's why I go. And like any party, it can go off or it can 
sputter and die. But if you keep the definition at that, then you leave room 
for everyone that seems to show up. Then it is OK to, trance out, just dance,
check people out, flirt, stand around, listen to music, trip on the visuals,
dose, etc.

More than a few female friends have commented that these guys standing around
with their arms crossed are a real turn on. Do you think you are going to get
someone to stop doing something that works for them to attract people?

People are at these parties for different reasons, and if acceptance really
is the emphasis, then everyone is going to have to live with the increased
friction that can happen when people are misreading each other's signals.

For instance, if you are spiffily attired in layers of too nifty clothing and
are well rested and dosed and beaming, you are going to feel prickly to someone
that could barely afford the door and is burnt anyways from working all day at
some shit job. I'm not saying people *must* modify their behavior in 
consideration of this fact, but it would be *kind* to do so. For example, I and
some friends who are probably reading this were at U.Groove and having, uh,
nutritional supplements in a very indiscrete fashion and the kids at the booth
next to us were pissed and threw the stuff on their table on the floor to
'express' their anger. Stupid but not unexpected and not the end of the world. 
We could have been more discrete. Maybe I'm just projecting, but that's where
I was and how I felt when I was just getting started in the Bay Area.

Anyway, I could keep babbling but let me just say that I don't think there
is anything wrong with this scene. It has alot more variety in terms of
music and people than just about anything else around.

-Dave


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 14:28:08 1994
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From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Message-Id: <199404202129.OAA04591@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Race, Sex, Drugs, $$$, Scene
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 14:29:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <199404202035.NAA20699@holonet.net> from "David M. Ilstrup" at Apr 20, 94 01:35:08 pm
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David M. Ilstrup sez:
> 
> Not every white guy with a shaved head is a skinhead nazi.

Well, I'm not, anyway.  :-)

Look, these generalizations (and refutation of generalizations) is
getting silly.  We all know these things.  Now granted, every month or
so there has to be some big flamefest on SFRaves (at least
historically there has been) but this one got stupid faster than the
others.  Look, give each other the benefit of the doubt once in a
while.  If you're so fuckin touchy that fellow SFRavers comments about
the composition of a party cause you to run lemming-like into a sea
of PC buzzword-slingin then take a few moments to relax before you
post, and realize that knee-jerk generalizations from you are no
better than knee jerk generalizations from the original poster.  If
they even existed or were meant that way (doubtful) in the first
place. 

-H-




-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
"Here in Singapore, if someone is observed to be acting strangely the police 
can force them to take drug tests.  That could never happen in America."
- Singapore official, in SF Chron     "And you BRAG about this?"  -Me

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 14:37:19 1994
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 14:37:12 PDT
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: howard@netcom.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: Howard Berkey's message of Wed, 20 Apr 1994 14:29:10 -0700 (PDT) <199404202129.OAA04591@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: Race, Sex, Drugs, $$$, Scene
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


damn, and i thought that shaving my head would get around all those
awkward moments when blacks/latinos/asians tried to talk to me just
because i was hanging out at a rave.  sheesh, the nerve of some
people.


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 14:46:35 1994
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From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Message-Id: <199404202147.OAA06893@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Race, Sex, Drugs, $$$, Scene
To: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 14:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404202129.OAA04591@netcom9.netcom.com> from "Howard Berkey" at Apr 20, 94 02:29:10 pm
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Howard Berkey sez:
[...]
> while.  If you're so fuckin touchy that fellow SFRavers comments about
> the composition of a party cause you to run lemming-like into a sea
[...]

Forgot to add that this is meant as an example, not a specific slam
against whoever (jsl?) started the thread.  

-H-




-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey                                             howard@netcom.com   
"Here in Singapore, if someone is observed to be acting strangely the police 
can force them to take drug tests.  That could never happen in America."
- Singapore official, in SF Chron     "And you BRAG about this?"  -Me

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 14:59:06 1994
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From: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Race, Sex, Drugs, $$$, Scene
To: Howard Berkey <howard@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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> post, and realize that knee-jerk generalizations from you are no
> better than knee jerk generalizations from the original poster.  If

Perhaps I'm guilty of this one.  Apologies.

Sami


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 15:25:48 1994
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To: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
From: drenalin@duckmail.uoregon.edu (Adrenalin)
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


>The news is skewed and racist because they focus on this stuff but blacks
>and latinos do comprise most of the street gangs and that drug consumers
>are mostly white is bull shit.
I don't know if this is bullshit.  Do you have any facts?  I would bet that
looking at a comparison of people w/ different ethnic backgrounds who use
drugs in the U.S. in a proportional way (something like per capita) that
the result s would be different than we all think.??

>  Especialy if you mean crack.  It was a
>popular un-fact for a while that white people were the primary crack
>consumers but then the facts came out.  As a generality, blacs deal and
>consume crack, whites deal and consume powder and the laws are indeed
>racist because there are harsher penalites for crack by weight.
At my high school my janitor was dealing crack (not to students) and got
busted, I got busted also because someone had narced on me for getting dope
from him.  If I would've gotten busted for the acid I had at the time I
probably would've gotten off light becuase I was only 17.8 yrs old.  A
couple of more months and I might've faced going to jail for ten years!!
My janitor is out on probation and only faced a max of 15 yrs in prison.
Years were added because he had sold crack on a school campus to officers
who had come onto campus...this is quite skewed if you ask me.

Peace :)

The Cloud Factory
Our People Make the Difference

-------------------------------------------------------
(:   The Madlander - Doctor Goto - Tim - DJ Adrenalin         :)
(:               Dancing to reach a higher consciousness...        :)
-------------------------------------------------------
"I was running around handing out happiness to people..."
                                                       -groovy Chris



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 15:46:40 1994
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From: drenalin@duckmail.uoregon.edu (Adrenalin)
Subject: rolling stone addendum (long)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Here are comments that I had threatened to put in and was actually
requested.  Just some questions I had thought of and comments, I thought it
was subpar article .  My comments are in parentheses.


>         Along a deserted strecth of highway north of Santa Cruz, Ca., and a
>few miles south of the San Andreas fault, the shoulder of the road suddenly
>turns into a parking lot, with 600 cars jammed tightly on either side.  Three
>police officers frantically write tickets.  "What's going on here tonight?"
>one of them asks a group of people getting out of a truck.  They give a vague
>answer and hurry across the asphalt, disappearing over the bluff toward the
>distant heartbeat of a sound system.  The Southern Pacific coastal railway
>runs along the west side of the highway.  Acoross the tracks, a ridge descends
>to an exquisite beach secluded within a cove, a setting so pristine it would
>suit a travel brochure.  Roughly 2,000 people are gathered, dancing in the
>sand, sitting around fires or walking along the surf.  Some have pitched
>tents, and a circle of men sit on the ground with drums, pounding a rhythmic
>counterpoint to the throb from the speakersand the random hiss of a nitrous
>oxide tank.  The ocean carries the palpable buzz of psychedelics

 (what is the' palpable' buzz of psychedelics? something I've never heard
of before).

Some people pass joints, and a few hold bottles wrapped in brown paper.
The tribal scene would remind a baby boomer of Woodstock.

 (another stupid association with the past, I have much respect for past
movements and such but why do we always have to be equated to something in
the past)

>        Threre's no bandstand tonight; instead, dancers press up around two
>turntables on a stand planted in the middle of the beach.  The makeshift DJ
>booth is lit by a portable generator that also fuels two massive speaker
>stacks decorated with columns of balloons.  DJ Garth, one of the stars of the
>bay Area rave scene,

(one of the stars? maybe this is from Nevada :) I'm going out with a girl
from Carson City and her friends call any 'ravers', 'ravestars', this kind
of threw me off!)

 has just pulled Tranquility Bass' "Cantamilla" into a pulsating,
meditative mix of techno and
house.

(what is a mix of meditative TECHNO and HOUSE? does this happen often at
the Full Moon?)
I've never heard it? sorry if I'm being to sarcastic here :))

 The record booms against the cliffs, which form a natural echo chamber,
and the full moon glows over the ocean, bathing the landscape in dim blue
light.
>        Tonight's crowd is an even blend of college kids, club poeple, Santa
>Cruz hippies and ravers.

(labels that don't need to be worried about in my opinion)

 Predominantly white, but also Asian, Latin and black, they've come from
all over Northern California and as far away as Los Angeles and San Diego.
Assembled without promotion except for word of mouth spread earlier this
evening, they are here for the free party that in the last two years has
become a Bay Area Ritual: the Full Moon Massive rave.  The trunout is
especially large because the full moon is rising on a Friday night and the
weather is fine.
>        Over the last few months, 20 year-old Shawn O'Docaharty, a
>pierced-and-tatooed >student at Cabrillo College, near Santa Cruz, has become
>a regular at Full Moon.  At a perch high on the enbankment, he sits, enjoying
>the view of the beach and the crisp air off of the >water.  "It's the best
>rave in Northern California," he says.  "The cops can't do anything, because
>it's a private beach, and ther's too many people here for them to break it up.
>A $20 >parking ticket split between a car of four or five people is still a
>bargain for most ravers.  >They'd pay $20 each somewhere else."

(I wouldn't pay $20 dollars for a rave that's cold, starts late and now
doesn't have enough sound to reach past the people dancing?!)

>        At 6am, the moon still hangs in the sky, and the first rays of morning
>illuminate the >terra-cota and purple layers of the cliffs.

(I don't ever remember the cliffs being all that spectacular where have I
been :))

> Nearly 500 people remain, dancing or sharing blankets around fires.  "The
>last party lasted >until 4 in the afternoon," says O'Docharty.  "By that time,
>things get pretty communal: 'I've >got food food, you've got water, he's got a
>bowl.'  There's kind of a family value to it."

(Why doesn't this happen earlier Shawn?  Do we need to wait until we have
something that we can barter with until we become communal?  If anyone on
this list ever experienced QMart (free water donuts and rolls at the FM's
last summer) I hope you know what I'm talking about!)

I really have enjoyed the FM's I've been to but at the last one when I
measured 1.2 miles of cars along Highway 1 alone I knew that things were a
little out of hand (that doesn't include Bonnie Doon Road).  The FM's I
first went to were more intimate and special.  I personally think that
there shouldn't be a "Full Moon" that is always by Wicked people.  Liquid
Air was a Full Moon Rave in my opinion more people should be willing to
throw other Full moon's and not feel obligated to go THEE Full Moon.  When
the feeling of intimacy was lost for me some of the magic definitely went
with it.  To find people you know you shouldn't have to go to the Lost and
Found booth :)

Look for some other Full Moon's this summer, I'll try to throw one!

The Cloud Factory
Our People Make the Difference

-------------------------------------------------------
(:   The Madlander - Doctor Goto - Tim - DJ Adrenalin         :)
(:               Dancing to reach a higher consciousness...        :)
-------------------------------------------------------
"I was running around handing out happiness to people..."
                                                       -groovy Chris



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 16:16:25 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:15:51 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: I need a date for S.P.A.Z.
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hello . . . I'm going to S.P.A.Z. tonight and although they are very 
nice people (I had such a good time at the last party of theirs I
was at!) I really don't want to show up alone (yep, she is obnoxious
AND shy).  I can't "not go" because I am spinning there tonight.

So, if someone would like to come with me, keep me company, help carry 
my records, and maybe even give me a ride (I don't have a club or car 
alarm for my new car yet) I would be most appreciative.  Brian won't go 
because it's in a bar and you have to be 21+ to get in and you know how he 
feels about that.  (I generally agree, but I really like what S.P.A.Z.
is doing so I couldn't say no to them.)

Drop me some email and we'll work something out.  I am spinning from 9pm 
to about 11, and intend to leave soon after I am done because I have
to go to work tomorrow.

Thanks a lot,

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 16:33:26 1994
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From: robertj308@aol.com
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 19:30:24 EDT
Subject: The Grey Gangsta or Flame Follies (long)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Well, Bob was able to "bald" to avoid the slings and arrows of outrageous PC
persecution. However, what  can this grey-haired gangsta do? Oh well, I'm in
such a minority here that no one even wants  or bothers to flame me. I'm
offended that when I reviewed by Organic party at Little Caesar's a while
back, and felt fearful of the "gangsta crowd," and that I got more "what are
you doing here vibes"  there than at any other party I've been to, nobody
scorched me in the slightest. Should I feel discriminated against by this
group? Or simply venerated? Just asking?

Another perspective here, from the philosopher Wittenstein said that the mind
thinks by making distinctions; from seeing differences(black,white, hispanic,
gangsta) by seeing "what is, by what is not." i.e., you can't see a ball
unless you see everything that is not ball.  In the case of "seeing"
differences in race, the mind will do that automatically. The danger is in
the thinking, or the meaning we attach to those differences; good, bad, etc.
Further, The problem is that the mind will also attach pre-conceived, or
previous meaning to the same or like circumstances; the "pre-judiced" or
prejudgements based on earlier-similiar experience. The trick is to live in
the moment, and not in the past, or prejudice. It is not far flung for John
to have attached negative, or fearful associations to the "gangsta-look."
However, where we diminish people, or discrimiate against people, is when we
attach prejudice to all people, and are not responsible for our
pre-judgements. We also diminish ourselves in the sense that we do not allow
people to be more than we think they are. Lastly, I try to remember
Augustine's admonition: " Hate the Sin. but Love the Sinner." In this case,
we may hate gangs, violence, etc. but our only hope is to come from love
regarding people. In particular, I began studying martial arts, so as not to
live in fear of many of the gangsta kids I teach, so I can keep my heart
open. But, I'm not perfect, I wouldn't come to rave with my friend for over a
year, because I "knew" I hated electronic   music. It ain't easy keeping your
mind open (in the present) when you're young, and it's harder when you're
old. However, you may discover that in a flame-war, both sides are probably
wrong, because neither side is on the side of love. 

 From a politically grey-haired incorrect minority of one.   
Robertj.........MRP

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 17:09:53 1994
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From: nrg@netcom.com (Ethan I. Miller)
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From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: I need a date for S.P.A.Z.

>So, if someone would like to come with me, keep me company, help carry 
>my records, and maybe even give me a ride (I don't have a club or car 
>alarm for my new car yet) I would be most appreciative.  Brian won't go 
>because it's in a bar and you have to be 21+ to get in and you know how he 
>feels about that.  (I generally agree, but I really like what S.P.A.Z.
>is doing so I couldn't say no to them.)


As SPAZ themselves pointed out, you don't have to be 21 you just have to
show the doorman a scrap of paper :)



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 17:38:14 1994
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From: THE Mike <ez040312@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Christian raves?
To: Mark Guthrie <winston@lurnix.com>
Cc: caliban@soda.berkeley.edu, grigsby@agames.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        uunet!soda.berkeley.edu!caliban@uunet.uu.net, winston@lurnix.com
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On Wed, 20 Apr 1994, Mark Guthrie wrote:
Could you post some "inconsistencies" or "contradictions" to back up your
statements? Most if not all of these are just different interpretations 
of verses that are addressing different issues altogether. I'm not here
to "Bible thump" you or anyone, but I'm tired of hearing this without any
substantial base.

Mike	<masolis@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
"Asbestos flame suit on..."

> Actualy Cali, I didn't realy say or imply this, I think you misunderstood
> me or the poster before me.  My point is to discredit the bible due to
> it's many inconsistencies and inaccuracies to show that it is not a writing
> that was "sponsered" by god, thus the doctarines of all christian churches
> are fudamentaly flawed.  I beleive we all on this list would have partied
> with Jesusa and he was most surely a cool dude, even if he did claim to 
> be god (unless he realy was in which case he was a REAL cool dude).
> 
> -Winston
> 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 19:07:51 1994
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To: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re: >>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<<
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>I couldn't possibly say it any better than Ethan just did.
>
>*Some* people get off on bass thumps that practically boil your blood.
>I am *not* one of those people.  When the bass *permeates* you and
>helps get you energized and you can still hear every point on the audio
>spectrum with excellent clarity. . . then you *got* me!

AGREED!!!  I definitely MUST FEEL the BASS.  All the better when my insides
jiggle around!

I have heard sets where Markie & Jeno, when on a good sound system, get
that bass goin', and I'm in heaven.  Nothin put me there like the bass.


=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 19:08:03 1994
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To: winston@lurnix.lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>C'mon people let's face it.  As much as many would HATE to admit it, CA is
>as racist as racist can be.  The Bay Area is certainly no exception to this
>rule.  And CA in general is pretty bad.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>WRONG!  This isn't worth arguing as I'm sure nobody belies it, not even you
>John.


Double wrong on you sir.  Things in CA, in general, are no better, and
offten times WORSE than the South (I am from the south, have people there,
and visit there often enough, and am black enough to know <- sorry but RACE
has everything to do with the type and strength of discrimination you get
from society.  Observing is fine; living it is a different matter).  Rodney
King did not happen in the South for example.  In any case the type of
discrimination here is very subtle.  People here smile in your face, then
stick it in when you're turned.  There are hella codewords here like: "Bad
area", "High crime", etc.  Everyone knows what's meant when they are said.
In the South, and the Northeast, things are much more honest and open.  You
know somebody donesn't like you it's hardly hidden.  CA is much more
covert,  but just as bad.
>
>
>
>The trend:
>There has been so much gangsta talk.  Either it's gangsta-moll, or gangsta
>type.  I have seen post, after post from a few on the list, using this
>reference.  And I and *SOME* others of color have begun to ask:
>
>Who are they talking about?
>What are they talking about?
>What are they seeing that we're not?
>
>I have noticed that the term is used primarily to denote those of
>non-european ancestry (i.e. non-white for the sake of converstaion).  And
>it is most often used to distinguish the real "loving" ravers, from those
>who supposedly do not belong.  I guess it is coincidental that whenever
>there is a greater presence of latino/chicano/hispanics or blacks/af. am.s
>that this term is used more often.
>Ok it's a coincidence, I am being oversensitive (why else would I be so
>observant as to notice how/why/when it's used ) ;).
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Well because of the input I've recieved from "gangstas" themselves, I and
>it seems others thought that a "gangsta" was different from a gangster and
>that "gangsta" didn't mena you had to be part of a gang just a hard tough-
>guy/girl that dresses gangsterish and emits "hard" vibes.  And no John, it's
>not just you and others of color who have begun to ask what they are talking
>about we all did and I thought that I had it figured out with the above
>definition.  And you haven't "noticed that the term is used primarily
>to denote those of non-european ancestry" because it wasn't in the posts,
>your assuming it.

Let's just say this:  I know what parties people attend, and I know when
the term is used.  It may be coincidental that for the parties where things
are a bit less "colorful" the term is hardly used.  But when we start to
get that brown goin, it is a different matter.  Comments on BASICS are
classic examples.  Yeah, the party for the most part escaped the gangsta
comment when there was a majority white.  But when you started to get the
influx of the brown, who at times, danced in the huge cirlces, the comments
started to pour out.  It was not as if the "style" of clothes had all of a
sudden change (I've seen plenty of people from Concord wearing gangsta
style, if I may call it that), it was that the parties constituents had
changed.  I have noticed this trend in regards to reviews given.  That's
all I'm saying.  The wonderfully perverse thing about codewords is that
they can be said with relative impunity.  Impunity until the person who
it's targeted at notices the transgression.

>
>
>I have also noticed that the news always shows blacks and latinos getting
>arrested when it comes to gang activity, or drugs (even though the
>consumers are for the most part white; as well as the kingpins [bka US
>Govt.]).  But I guess I should never believe the news, or even watch it.
>It may sensitize me.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>The news is skewed and racist because they focus on this stuff but blacks
>and latinos do comprise most of the street gangs and that drug consumers
>are mostly white is bull shit.


I see that YOU may have been watching too much news, and you need to take a
look at the HVP (Hayes Valley Projects), or PoHill (Potrero Hill).  I see
more whites venturing in that area than I do see blacks.  You do see the
crackheads outside with their shriveled bodies.  But what you fail to
notice is the stream of cars that pour through these areas for purchases.
The FACT is the projects do not have the economic resources to keep crack
flowing, so there must be another source outside of the community that is
the main supply line for not only the money but the drugs.  As for crack
usage, yes, it does tend to concentrate itslef in lower-socioeconomic rungs
(hows that for a codeword).  But cocaine is still flowing freely, in it's
powdered state, all over middle/uppermiddle/upper class white
neighborhoods.  The stats from the DEA, ATF, & CIA do bear me out on this
one.

>Especialy if you mean crack.

crack==coke+baking soda

I mean coke.

>It was a
>popular un-fact for a while that white people were the primary crack
>consumers but then the facts came out.

They do consume the majority of cocoaine in this country.  Crack is just a
small component of sales.  And if you wanna see strung out, I would still
have to say that there are more whites on crack than blacks/others.  It's
just that they tend to have the support mechanisms avaialbe to get help,
and thus make the problem seem less than it is.  I can give you some stats
if you wish.


>As a generality, blacs deal and
>consume crack, whites deal and consume powder and the laws are indeed
>racist because there are harsher penalites for crack by weight.
>

Another stereotype...give me stats, and where you got this information.
For a quick look, go to lower haight at about 3-4 in the morning.  Amongst
the black crack dealers you will see PLENTY of whites getting that rock.
Skinny women getting out of brand new Samurai's in one of the toughest
parts of SF, all to get that rock.  And just look in the rehab programs.
It sure as fuck ain't filled with black folks.  And I would say the
majority of them sure as hell ain't on the horse either.

>
>On the other hand I have to ask: Why are these classifications being used,
>in a community that prides itself on breaking down barriers?  Why classify,
>and allow classification based upon appearance rather than deed?  Is the
>concept of measuring a person by his/her deeds and character gone to the
>wayside while appearance, once again has taken the forefront?  Is judging
>by character now considered PC?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I have been anoyed for quite a while when people start complaining about
>classifications because although we should always no a person is deeper
>than the outside shows, for the most part classifications are self-imposed.
>When someone dresses like a raver they wanna be seen that way.
>When someone dresses like a goth they wanna be seen that way.
>When someone dresses like a hippy they wanna be seen that way.
>When someone dresses like a gangsta they wanna be seen that way.
>
>-Winston


I get annoyed at insensitivity.  And the oversimplification of
classifications belies a real problem with communication.  Blacks/Af. Am.'s
surely did not classify themselves as Nigra's/Niggers/Colored.  Please
Winston...a little historical perpective on American History surely taught
you better...

In any case,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 19:08:08 1994
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To: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Christian raves? # The first rave
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>how can you say that christianity advocates killing of
>        non-believers (and that the bible *supports* this, which
>        is the main point you made) when the first and foremost
>        *prime directive* of the new testament is "thou shall
>        not kill"?  think about this for a moment.  now read on.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Actualy Cali, I didn't realy say or imply this, I think you misunderstood
>me or the poster before me.  My point is to discredit the bible due to
>it's many inconsistencies and inaccuracies to show that it is not a writing
>that was "sponsered" by god, thus the doctarines of all christian churches
>are fudamentaly flawed.  I beleive we all on this list would have partied
>with Jesusa and he was most surely a cool dude, even if he did claim to
>be god (unless he realy was in which case he was a REAL cool dude).
>
>-Winston

I think that the group of partiers Moses was with were the first true
ravers.  Remember what they were doing when Moses came down the mountain to
give up those two big tabs! (Thanks to GW for the elucidation!!!) :0

;)

Pax,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 19:19:08 1994
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From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Message-Id: <199404210220.TAA17452@netcom8.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 19:20:19 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404210209.TAA24915@mail.netcom.com> from "John S. Lee" at Apr 20, 94 07:09:04 pm
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I really don't know about you all, but i am uncomfortable at events that are 
ultra white or ultra homogenous. I have been in a very mixed element all of
my life, and I really get a nervous feeling if I happen to find myself at these
subtly segregated events - if this whole scene, movement, whatever you want to
call it is supposed to be a diversion from the ugliness of what's really out
there, the fact that there aren't many events that have a peaceful and positive
balance of people is a real commentary.

Comments? This is very interesting to me.

JSL - I would appreciate it if you send me private mail and tell me what's
upcoming for Good Housekeeping. I have something neat to share with you.

Transmitting from the racially harmonious city of Los Angeles, (ha)

Tamara


Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
...............................................................................

trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 19:30:26 1994
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To: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>I really don't know about you all, but i am uncomfortable at events that are
>ultra white or ultra homogenous. I have been in a very mixed element all of
>my life, and I really get a nervous feeling if I happen to find myself at these
>subtly segregated events - if this whole scene, movement, whatever you want to
>call it is supposed to be a diversion from the ugliness of what's really out
>there, the fact that there aren't many events that have a peaceful and positive
>balance of people is a real commentary.
>
>Comments? This is very interesting to me.
>
>JSL - I would appreciate it if you send me private mail and tell me what's
>upcoming for Good Housekeeping. I have something neat to share with you.
>
>Transmitting from the racially harmonious city of Los Angeles, (ha)
>
>Tamara
>
>
>Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
>...............................................................................
>
>trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
>izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
>izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
>urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
>...............................................................................

Yo GO GIRL!!!

To A true sistah!!,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 20:40:36 1994
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 20:40:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Transistor Rhythm <psiborg@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: >>> Bad audio will kill this scene <<<
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@netcom.com>
Cc: Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404210208.TAA24909@mail.netcom.com>
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On Wed, 20 Apr 1994, John S. Lee wrote:

> >I couldn't possibly say it any better than Ethan just did.
> >
> >*Some* people get off on bass thumps that practically boil your blood.
> >I am *not* one of those people.  When the bass *permeates* you and
> >helps get you energized and you can still hear every point on the audio
> >spectrum with excellent clarity. . . then you *got* me!
> 
> AGREED!!!  I definitely MUST FEEL the BASS.  All the better when my insides
> jiggle around!
> 
> I have heard sets where Markie & Jeno, when on a good sound system, get
> that bass goin', and I'm in heaven.  Nothin put me there like the bass.
> 
> 
   i find myself going mentos (crazy) when a bone-jarring bass kicks in 
working in perfect harmony with the bass line.  it commands attention and 
makes the body react and jack.  on the other hand, i'm perfectly content 
listening to mixmaster morris revelling in my beatless bliss.

see you in the phuture,
 _-_->psiborg<-_-_
 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 20:57:41 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 23:54:59 EDT
Subject: TX Parties
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hi, I'm new to this list so please consider this a my official hallo!  Just
wanted to post a list of a couple of great parties coming up in Dallas and
Austin in case someone is to be there looking for a groovy time.

Dallas - April 23rd - Hazy Daze & Groove Kitchen (SF) with DJs Ernie Munson -
John Howard - Darkhorse (SF) - Robert Taylor - Cle - and Rob Vaughan
INFO 214-522-4674 or 214-682-9022

Dallas - April 30 - GROOVE - (this is a party I'm having so It will
definately kick! He!)
Genesis P. Orridge will be DJing (SF) along with Robert Taylor - Rob Vaughan
- A1 - Steve Morton - Intox - JaJo. Outside 10-10.
InFo - 214-682-9026 or 918-241-3352 Ext. 269

Austin - Planetary Peek-A-Boo April 22 - DJs Mark Dean - Seville, & Rob
Vaughn.  Should be, well VERY interesting if you know Austin.  He He!  INFO
(512) 472-8922

If anyone would like more info please drop a bomb here!  Later.
Also, anyone interested in trading DATs of these or other parties lemme know.

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 22:27:46 1994
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From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Message-Id: <199404210528.WAA13974@netcom8.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 22:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
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Perhaps this would be a good time to mention that there is a new list set up
for the discussion of gangs...

gangtm-request@dhvx20.csudh.edu

The list owner is a very well intentioned prof from Cal State Dominguez Hills,
and he envisions this list as someday being a link for high school kids or
younger with gang or former gang members. It sounds lofty, and without a lot
of money and manna from heaven, it probably won't happen. I am trying to get
UCLA faculty interested to at least propel the discussion into more than
the direction in which it is headed right now, namely a bunch of people who
don't seem to know much about gangs and just have bad things to say. I don't
know much myself beyond 
a few books that I have read and I just think that more people with more resources need to be a part of the discussion.  I dunno...

I am sorry this isn't rave related and I am perpetuating non rave threads
on the list. SO...if anyone has got a copy of the record by The Mephisto
Odyssey (Jon, didn't you say you had an extra copy???), PLEASE mail me...!!!



It's on Orpheus Records outta The City.



Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
...............................................................................

trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 20 23:28:55 1994
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 23:30:04 -0700
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Message-Id: <199404210630.XAA27759@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: [trance@netcom.com: Re: Race rubbish...]
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

It does seem like the parties have gotten alot more homogenous and
younger than they used to be. At the earlier Toontowns there was a mix
of all ages from teens to 70's, outrageously dressed transvestites,
gays, Af/Americans, asians, hippies, computer geeks, suburbanites,
goths and some punk dressed types. I prefer to be in a mix like this,
cuz there's so much energy. Also I didn't mind the people dancing in
circles at the Basics at the Armory. I enjoyed seeing people having fun.
One of the reasons I started partying in The City even though I lived 
in Santa Cruz at the time is because I liked the diversity of the people
at the various parties/clubs/etc. I also liked the diversity of the
music available here. I like to dance to more than house or techno at
times. I like reggae/dancehall/dub, Industrial body music, and the more 
melodic hip-hop as opposed to "gansta". I really wouldn't mind that style 
either if it weren't so misogynistic and racist. I too am uncomfortable
at events that are too "white bread" because I don't feel like I fit in.

Rox 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't know about you all, but i am uncomfortable at events that are 
ultra white or ultra homogenous. I have been in a very mixed element all of
my life, and I really get a nervous feeling if I happen to find myself at these
subtly segregated events - if this whole scene, movement, whatever you want to
call it is supposed to be a diversion from the ugliness of what's really out
there, the fact that there aren't many events that have a peaceful and positive
balance of people is a real commentary.

Tamara
...............................................................................
trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................




From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 00:26:33 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 00:27:46 -0700
From: child@netcom.com (Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild)
Message-Id: <199404210727.AAA09428@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: prejuice
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Ok, fellow keyboard tappers,

here's a simple and easy experiment you can all do:  in the next month or so
if you happen to be watching bay area TV news or "world" news or commercials 
on channels 2,4,5, or
7 and they are doing a report on the "war against drugs" or a commercial type
"keep our children from drugs" or a commercial or news story on violent
crime look closely at the race of the actors who play the drug pushers and
even the actors who play the drug addicts in the anti-drug commercials or
in the videos of convicts.  Not of specific convicts, just when they show
a video clipping to go along with a report on generalized violent crime.
You may learn something, if you haven't noticed it already.  It's pretty
fascinating.

Space

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 00:34:10 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
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To: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Cc: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
In-Reply-To: <199404210220.TAA17452@netcom8.netcom.com>
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	<199404210220.TAA17452@netcom8.netcom.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I feel _really_ weird when sometimes I go to an event and notice there
are few, if any, black people. This happens a lot at YSH, and I've
often wondered why. I have seen many other non-caucasians there, but
black seem to be particularily under-represented. Anyone have any idea
why?

Sean

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From: trance@netcom.com (Tamara Palmer)
Message-Id: <199404210739.AAA29511@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
To: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 00:39:57 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: trance@netcom.com, jsl@netcom.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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> 
> I feel _really_ weird when sometimes I go to an event and notice there
> are few, if any, black people. This happens a lot at YSH, and I've
> often wondered why. I have seen many other non-caucasians there, but
> black seem to be particularily under-represented. Anyone have any idea
> why?

Hmmm...I have no idea...any possible explanation I could come up with 
would be some sweeping generalization that I am sure does not apply,
because I don't believe things work that way...

(silly racist bullshit like "blacks don't like women" or some such
stupid shit)

YSH really strikes me as a very mixed bag of people - also very gay
friendly, something that seems to be kind of an oddity sometimes
(and unfortunately - I want to revive that thread on here, why is it that
the raver crowd and the gay crowd generally do not mix THAT much. Sure,
there are notable exceptions like Rhythm, although I don't know if that is
still going on, but here again is an example of that commentary that i was
talking about earlier)


Tamara Palmer                                            Women Respond To Bass
...............................................................................

trance@netcom.com   (the address of choice)
izzyzi5@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
izzypk3@mvs.oac.ucla.edu  (yes, i is a college student)
urbmag@netcom.com   (open for your comments about URB Magazine!)
...............................................................................




From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 04:52:04 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 07:51:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tanya Smith <tmsmith@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: prejuice
To: Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild <child@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Thu, 21 Apr 1994, Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild wrote:

> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 00:27:46 -0700
> From: Spaced-Out Funky Earthchild <child@netcom.com>
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: prejuice
> 
> 
> Ok, fellow keyboard tappers,
> 
> here's a simple and easy experiment you can all do:  in the next month or so
> if you happen to be watching bay area TV news or "world" news or commercials 
> on channels 2,4,5, or
> 7 and they are doing a report on the "war against drugs" or a commercial type
> "keep our children from drugs" or a commercial or news story on violent
> crime look closely at the race of the actors who play the drug pushers and
> even the actors who play the drug addicts in the anti-drug commercials or
> in the videos of convicts.  Not of specific convicts, just when they show
> a video clipping to go along with a report on generalized violent crime.
> You may learn something, if you haven't noticed it already.  It's pretty
> fascinating.
> 
> Space
> 
You know whats funny.  Its like they are saying only Afro-Americans can be 
drug addicts and only Afro-Americans can be drug pushers.  Furthermore, 
they suggest the only drugs out there people are abusing are crack 
cocaine and you have to be poor to be a drug addict!  Talking about 
generalizations and stereotypes!  These commercials won't do a d@#$ worth 
of good eccept reinterate that addiction only victimizes a certain few 
and they have to be of a certain race, socio-economic background, etc.  I 
can't wait for the commercial where they show a really rich, famous dude 
snorting cocaine and drop dead of a heartattack.  Until then, I will 
silently laugh.
HA...HA...HA...
Tanya

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 09:52:17 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 12:49:09 EDT
Subject: Matthew Fox's 'Rave in the Nave'
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

To:  SFRaves
From:  Cliff

Greetings!

Pardon my breach of protocol for posting so early after I joined the mailing
list, but I may have something to offer to a discussion I understand is
underway among many subscribers. The topic is Matthew Fox and the Chronicle
and San Jose Mercury-News articles of April 15.

I work with Matthew Fox, currently as director of new projects for his
non-profit organization.  I have been working with him for more than a year,
helping to develop new ways of getting his work into the culture.  I traveled
with him to England in November to visit the community that inspired his
decision to show solidarity with young people who are using technology to
reinvent ritual.  He ended his latest book, The Reinvention of Work, with a
section on ritual, saying that ritual is the new work of our species, that it
is the shortcut to awaken the energy we desperately need to reinvent the
ageist, patriarchal, human-centered, consumption-addicted culture that is
effectively destroying the life systems of the earth.

Matt was so moved by both the English community and their "rave mass" that he
returned to teach the group for three weeks.  He said someone there told him,
"We are the first generation to understand your work."  As someone under 30
myself, I think they are absolutely right.

We'll understand Matt's work because we're the first postmodern generation. 
We operate in a new frame of mind understood by only a few people who were
radical in the 60s.  We know that the modern ways of doing government,
economics, education, religion and business have proven to be manifest
failures in the face of ecological crisis.  While global fisheries are fished
to extinction, frogs disappear worldwide, and agri-business washes away the
remaining topsoil, government has prostituted itself to lobbyists, business
continues its agenda of promoting increasing consumption of diminishing
nonrenewable resouces, and the pope says it's a sin to masturbate.  It's time
somebody woke up around here, and it looks like it's going to have to be us.

Doing things in a postmodern way demands a choice.  Postmodernism can lead
either to deconstruction or to restructuring.  Choose deconstruction, and you
might as well check out, there's no reason to live.  Choose restructuring,
and you've got hope.  In this mindset, you realize that your reality is what
you choose it to be.  So, you look at what's out there, pick what you choose
to go along with, and move on.

That's where Matt's work in creation spirituality comes in.  To make choices,
you've got to have some sort of spiritual grounding.  Which spirituality do
you choose?  Certainly not what most churches have to offer now.  They're
stuck in a theology called theism - the idea of god as some bearded white man
in the sky.  This thinking says that god is outside you, and you are
originally sinful and cursed, so you have to go to some man-made institution
to make it to a puffy cloud with your name on it. That's the bad news.  But,
Matt says, the good news is that you don't have to buy that crap.  That's not
the only way of looking at things.  Matt proves that there's an even older
way of looking at things - called panentheism.  This says that god is in all
things, and all things are in god.  Since god is within you, you must be
originally blessed.  So, things start with praise for creation, for the
fireball that exploded 16 billion years ago and gave birth to the photons
that are in every cell of your body and your computer. This mindset is
praise-based, not guilt-based.  It's about reclaiming your own responsibility
to get a spiritual life, about expressing yourself through your creativity,
about paying back the gift of life you have been given by doing something for
the people and the environment around you.  

Unlike "all is light" New Age, though, this tradition recognizes pain, the
pain of letting go, the death that gives way to new life, the bottoming out
that hollows the soul and allows it to hold more life.  Unlike those who use
drugs and mushrooms to reach a mystical state, this tradition uses
non-chemical ways of getting high and celebrating beauty, including
electronic ritual, art and making love within committed relationship.  This
tradition helps to put things in perspective, requiring those who have
discovered mysticism to pour their new energy into healing the hurting people
and planet around them.  It's about engaging and interfering directly in the
culture, not opting out into some cynical, self-pitying stupor.  It's about
the evolution of the culture, not the enlightenment of the individual.  It's
about learning more about science to find out more about god, not allowing
science to be used to kill more people or sell more things.  It's about the
living organism of base communities, not the cold isolation of nuclear
family. It's about clearing the way so the Cosmic Christ can emanate from
within each person and meet itself in its fullness.

The great thing about this whole schtick is that it's been around a long
time.  Matt didn't invent it; he's just teaching what was taught by Hildegard
of Bingen, Meister Eckhart, Nicholas of Cusa, Julian of Norwich, Rainer Maria
Rilke, Abraham Heschel, Gregory Bateson, Albert Einstein, and the Celts and
the aboriginal peoples.

Matt's written 15 books in case you want to read more about it.  There's an
article on-line from last year in Mercury Center.  He did a dialogue Tuesday
night with scientist Brian Swimme at Herbst Theater, and will speak at Grace
Cathedral at 11 a.m. April 24.  He's working on two books with British
biologist Rupert Sheldrake (author of a hot new book in England called
something like "Seven Experiments You Can Do At Home to Disprove the
Scientific Establishment.")

If you would like any more information about what Matt's doing, or would like
to pass on a message to him, please let me know.  He says he would like to
know more about the work you're doing and would love to be invited to a San
Francisco rave...

keep in touch
cliff



    

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 09:56:07 1994
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To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: andy@mailhost.wco.ftp.com (Andy Nourse)
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
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>KKK?  Yeah sure, but not as many as CA (in 1950 the LARGEST KKK contingent
>was in Anaheim CA.

That's rather a long way from SF (fortunately).

>There has been so much gangsta talk...
>On the other hand I have to ask: Why are these classifications being used,
>in a community that prides itself on breaking down barriers?  Why classify,
>and allow classification based upon appearance rather than deed? ...

>A gangsta would, from *my* experience:
>Kick your ass for looking at him/her for 1/4 sec.
>Call you out, and kick your ass for stepping in his/her space.
>Kick your ass because you're there and he/she's there.
>Steeping into territory where you do not belong.
>Shoot your ass on a good day.
>
>There is susally a signal of some sorts that is done
>before things are done, and afterward...
>
>By the time you notice them, it's too late.

You have answered your own question.

If you have any pointers on how to distinguish _real_ gangsters from
people who aren't, without getting one's ass kicked, please elucidate.
None of us want to miss a chance to make a friend out of misplaced fear.
                         &andy
                         KC1IP/6
                         the tie-dyed side of the force
                         


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 10:19:19 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 10:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
To: Sean Casey <csc@pilot.njin.net>
Cc: Tamara Palmer <trance@netcom.com>, "John S. Lee" <jsl@netcom.com>,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Not flaming, just curious:

> I feel _really_ weird when sometimes I go to an event and notice there
> are few, if any, black people. 

Is that not simply another form of discrimination (ie realizing that 
there are not "enough"--what constitutes "enough"--people who look a 
certain way, and wishing there were more because, since all people who 
look like that act basically the same, they will add another dimension 
to this party)?  Again, not flaming.  That is just how I interpreted the 
excerpted statement above.

> This happens a lot at YSH, and I've often wondered why. I have seen 
> many other non-caucasians there, but black seem to be particularily 
> under-represented. 

Under-represented?  I am confused again.  I thought the point of clubbing 
is to go out and dance.  Representation implies a common interest or 
ideology in an attempt to achieve certain goals.  Applying the term 
"representation" to people trying to have fun seems to be bringing all 
of these people in question down to some basic stereotype...which is 
racism, IMHO.

*Again*, not flaming.  Sean, if I'm wrong, can you clarify?

Sami

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 10:23:57 1994
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Date: 21 Apr 1994 10:23:28 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: jesus raves
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one of the biggest discussions amongst ecumenical groups of all the
  various christian religions is whether jesus actually said he was
    the son of god.  actually, there still is no single statement
      attributable to him in which he made that assertion.  he did
        refer to the "son of man" on several occasions, but it is
          possible that the original translation from hebrew to greek
            somehow munged that statement. 
  yerz truly is NOT a religious scholar, but i do have a passing interest
    in christianity...

  furthermore, any supposed religious "scholar" you may see on TV or 
    whatever who doesn't read hebrew isn't worth his weight in
      communion crackers...

seeya!

Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 10:34:22 1994
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> 
>   furthermore, any supposed religious "scholar" you may see on TV or 
>     whatever who doesn't read hebrew isn't worth his weight in
>       communion crackers...

Amen to that!
You might want to throw coptic and arramaic in their as well.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 10:58:38 1994
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From: "Barry Alexander" <barryale@symantec.com>
Message-Id: <9403217669.AA766950871@symantec.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: prejuice
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


>
>here's a simple and easy experiment you can all do:  in the next month or so
>if you happen to be watching bay area TV news or "world" news or commercials 
>on channels 2,4,5, or
>7 and they are doing a report on the "war against drugs" or a commercial type
>"keep our children from drugs" or a commercial or news story on violent
>crime look closely at the race of the actors who play the drug pushers and
>even the actors who play the drug addicts in the anti-drug commercials or
>in the videos of convicts.  Not of specific convicts, just when they show
>a video clipping to go along with a report on generalized violent crime.
>You may learn something, if you haven't noticed it already.  It's pretty
>fascinating.
>
>Space
>
    yes, this is true.  we all know how to watch tv.  not all know how to
    critique it.  "if its on the tube, it must be true!"  *NOT*
    ever since i did a project for the non profit outfit Stragies For Media
    Literacy, i haven't looked at tv/media with that spoon fed, passive mode
    that alot of us are/were accustom to.  know what theyre feedin ya,
    it aint all true.

    barry

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 11:35:46 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 11:39:53 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: Matthew Fox's 'Rave in the Nave'
Cc: mauzi@aol.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hi Cliff and Welcome!

It's nice to get some of these ideas nearly straight from the source,
however, as I think you'll soon notice, your entre will most likely
generate a flurry (to say the least) of empassioned and very pointed
discussion so let's get Matt on-line with us and get right down to it.  :)

In general, I have few problems with Matt's schtick as you present it. I
must however take issue with at least two points.

  o Christ on the Cross has little if no meaning to anyone I know. Rather,
    it seems a growingly inappropriate anachronism heavily burdened with
    2000 years of questionable cultural/mythological baggage. I shudder to
    think at the volumes of blood let in Christ's name. As a myth *or as a
    factual event* it has simply outlived it's usefulness if, in fact, it
    ever had any. So Cosmic Christ still puts me off.

  o I was more than a little dismayed at your barely masked contention
    that "use of drugs or mushrooms to reach a mystical state" implies 
    "opting out into some cynical, self-pitying stupor," especially given
    that you cite aboriginal (indigenous?) peoples as one of his/your
    models, many of whom have/had shamanic traditions of which naturally
    occurring plant psychoactives are an integral part. 

    God and the cumulative psychic manifestations of life may easily be
    present in dimensions reachable by a simple chemical. Organisms are,
    after all, not only spiritual beings, but also bio*chemical* systems.
    Why then this chemical alienation? Does it make it too easy? Does one
    have to be *worthy* of god (like we've been hearing for 10000 years?)
    I sure hope not. 
   
    People find god in their own way. The conscious use of psychoactives
    towards these or other like goals is an entirely valid and historically
    verified approach. 

    However I would go further and add that a truly recreational,
    psychoactive induced reality shift *for it's own sake*: fun
    is something I think everyone on this planet could use. That this is
    available with relatively low overhead in terms of dogma or ideology 
    is a proverbial *good thing*.

Let The Good Times Roll!

peace always, and please forward this to Matt.

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 12:12:43 1994
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  I notice that you all seem to comment on the 'race' of the people in
the drug comercials.  I think being aware of this 'programming' is
good, and I encorage you to keep your eyes open.

  I don't watch TV at all, so I don't know for sure, but I wonder
about the gender.  I'll bet you the 'criminal' vendor is depicted as
male, and the 'victim' consumer as female or a child.  Just my
(sexist?) guess.  It is also different from my personal experience.

  For a while, I used to hang out near a particular corner just west
of down town LA.  At that corner, a lot of crack was bought, sold, and
used.

  The folks I met who used crack (and who seemed to live on the
street) left me with the impresion that the consumers were about 75%
men, but formed a fairly representative sample of 'races'.  (I expect
that living on the street biases the sample towards men, but I don't
know for sure.)

  My impression was that the vendors were about 75% male, but I didn't
run around with a clip board counting heads, and asking to see
genitillia.  (Although that kind of crack was also available at this
particular street corner, with female vendors predominating.)  The
vendors were (almost 100%) 'chicano'.  Actually they were all 18th
st. gang members near as I could tell.  I suspect that the gang was
racist. (Goodnews though, I hear that trend is passing away here in
LA.  Most gangs are (voluntarily -- no government mandate!)
integrating.)

  ObRave: The house at that corner was lived in by many ravers, and
rave organizers.  Infact, the guy who introduced me to raving lived
there.  It was a really cool, funky, victorian house (much rarer in LA
than SF), and had some really nice spaces inside.

j'

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 13:01:37 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 13:00:29 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Rave in the Nae
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Grrrrr. My mailer mangled a key paragraph. Here it is again:

>prior text deleted

I was more than a little dismayed at your barely masked contention
that "use of drugs or mushrooms to reach a mystical state" implies
"opting out into some cynical, self-pitying stupor," especially given
that you cite aboriginal (indigenous?) peoples as one of his/your
models, many of whom have/had shamanic traditions of which naturally
occurring plant psychoactives are an integral part. 


>following text deleted


take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 13:46:51 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404211712.AA13399@jimi.lurnix.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

> Rodney King did not happen in the South for example.

No, they just have good 'ol fashioned misissippi style jail lynchings.
(I'm not kidding here unfortunately, there have been some local 
benefits and fund-raisers for groups and families suing some
southern jails for an upsettingly high ammount of these occurances
lately).

>There are hella codewords here like:ad area", "High crime",

They're not "codewords" they are outright warnings on places for certain
people not to go because there is a high probability of being robbed
and/or beaten up.  For me that may be parts of Oakland for you John,
thay may be parts of Contra Costa County.

>Let's just say this:  I know what parties people attend, and I know when
>the term is used.  It may be coincidental that for the parties where things
>are a bit less "colorful" the term is hardly used.  But when we start to
>get that brown goin, it is a different matter.  Comments on BASICS are
>classic examples.  Yeah, the party for the most part escaped the gangsta
>comment when there was a majority white.  But when you started to get the
>influx of the brown, who at times, danced in the huge cirlces, the comments
>started to pour out.  It was not as if the "style" of clothes had all of a
>sudden change (I've seen plenty of people from Concord wearing gangsta
>style, if I may call it that), it was that the parties constituents had
>changed.  I have noticed this trend in regards to reviews given.  That's
>all I'm saying.  The wonderfully perverse thing about codewords is that
>they can be said with relative impunity.  Impunity until the person who
>it's targeted at notices the transgression.

Let's just say this:  I doubt that anyone on this list or even in this scene is
"racist".  I doubt that they anyone gets uncomfortable when there are too many
black or any other type of people at a party, John.  I do think that when there
are people at a party who dress "gansta" and give hard looks it makes people 
nervous and wonder why people like that would come to a party and this thought
may be in part due to ignorance but you can't realy blame people when there 
have been incidences of "gangstas" being violent at parties or elsewhere, a
stereotype yes but self preservation has a way of causing that.  If you were
swiming in the ocean and you saw a shark it would be considered wise to get
out of the water.  Yet, we all know that there are very few man-eating varieties
and of those they rarely attack.  But, we all know that this situation has as
much a probability of becomng an attack as any other and the fact that it could
be you is all you need to know and nobody can realy blame you for being affraid.
Besides, a lot of the complaint is that these people stand around not dancing
and detracting from the vibe just like the occaisional gawking suits or suave
"hey baby" don Juans.  I'm sure you have a keen eye for racism John, but somtimes
I think you might be miss-analysing some situations and I'd caution you to try to
consider other possibilities or reasons for things instead of always assuming
everybody is a racist.

>Another stereotype...give me stats, and where you got this information.
>For a quick look, go to lower haight at about 3-4 in the morning.  Amongst
>the black crack dealers you will see PLENTY of whites getting that rock.
>Skinny women getting out of brand new Samurai's in one of the toughest
>parts of SF, all to get that rock.  And just look in the rehab programs.
>It sure as fuck ain't filled with black folks.  And I would say the
>majority of them sure as hell ain't on the horse either.

I heard it on either NPR or KPFA during a story about the unfair crack laws and
how they are racist against blacks John, and I consider those reputable sources
as they were citing FBI and California State crime statistics AND it was a pro-
black anti-racism peice of news, I doubt they'd lie.  And my origional statement
was started with "As a generality",  we all know that plenty of whites do crack
but the statistics show that percentage-wise blacks traffic and consume crack,
whites and latinos traffic and consume powder, that's all I said and your right
about the powder being a bigger industry, as even crack starts out that way for
what that's worth but drug-related street crime and crack are more in the public
eye and more frequent than the occasional big-time coke bust so my argument was
that it wasn't neccesarily due to racism, or at leas not in the way you were
saying, that the news showed those peices more.

>And if you wanna see strung out, I would still
>have to say that there are more whites on crack than blacks/others.  It's
>just that they tend to have the support mechanisms avaialbe to get help,
>and thus make the problem seem less than it is.

Sorry, I just don't buy this.

>I get annoyed at insensitivity.  And the oversimplification of
>classifications belies a real problem with communication.

True, as I said, we should always know a person is deeper than the outside shows.

>Blacks/Af. Am.'s
>surely did not classify themselves as Nigra's/Niggers/Colored.  Please
>Winston...a little historical perpective on American History surely taught
>you better...

Your puting words in my mouth and going out of context, the point was that most
people, gagstas in this case, dress in certain ways to identify themselves as
part of a certain class, culture, or subculture.

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 13:46:56 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Could you post some "inconsistencies" or "contradictions" to back up your
statements? Most if not all of these are just different interpretations
of verses that are addressing different issues altogether. I'm not here
to "Bible thump" you or anyone, but I'm tired of hearing this without any
substantial base.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I realy don't have the time, energy, or inclination to go into it, Tanya
wore me out on this a couple months ago ;-) but seriously, I find that
christians realy beleive strongly with there heart and can answer any
point I make with a biblical answer that they believe to be accurate,
even when were arguing about the legitamacy of the bible itself!  But,
let me assure you I'm not just some "heathen" who know not what he speaks,
I'm a "heathen" that does know what he speaks |-) I was raised going to
church, reading the bible, and even went to church school in 7th grade.

Just for a taste though, how did you know that Moses was raised under the
Tamarian (Tamaria - ancient north-African name for Egypt) Education
System, living in the pharoa's palace and all and was given an extensive
education about this religion/belief system.  Funny then, how the ten
comandments were a subset of the 40 commandments of the Tamarian system,
word for word, yet he said Jehova (who didn't exist before this) gave them
to him on the mountain top.  It is also true that this Tamarian system may
be as old as 10,000 years B.C., before there were any Hebrew or Jewish
people as a race, but oops I forgot the common theological view is that
the earth and human race is younger than 10,000 years B.C.  There are
also some other direct pleagerisms in Moses' books of the bible from
well known scholars and leaders of Moses' history books.  The whole
christian spiel, including the concept of heaven and hell, the judgement
of the soul, the virgin birth are all taken from the Tamarian system, that
predates christianity, and is common folklore in other cultures.

Or how about the story of Sodom and Gamora?  God destroys it because it's 
evil and the whole town "turned" gay!  Except for Lot and his family who
happend to be the only straits in town.  So they were warned to leave,
left, Lots wife looks back after being told not to, turns into pillar of
salt.  That night in order to re-populate, Lots daughters get him drunk 
and screw him (sheesh this is gettin like a soap opera).  Moral of the
story:  Homosexuality bad, incest O.K.?

Though shal not kill - fist commandment
Suffer not a witch to live - text in Leviticus 

David, one of the godliest biblical men, infact a favorite of god,
also one of the most warlike, some also say homosexual.

Most of you, unless your a seventh day baptist, seventh day adventist, branch
davidian, Jewish, or a few others, don't even go to church on the day god 
supposedly told you to with the commandment that says 6 days shall though
labour but rest and worship on the seventh day.  The calendar starts with
Sunday as the first day and Saturday is the 7th.  The church changed this to
convert the sun (sunday) worshiping pagans.  Why would god care?  I 
don't know but "He" supposedly made it a commandment and why would god want
religious dogma and to be worshiped.  I feel intelectualy superior at my level
to not want beings to gravel and worship me if I could create them.

Noah was actualy able to build a boat big enough and house two of every species
of every earth animal and the whold world flooded despite no archeological
evidence of such a cotastrophe.  Amazing!

Political parable of the swine taken by christians as a case of demon expulsion
when it was a political alegory about Roman occupation.

Multiple differing accounts of the last days of christ by his disciples, 
including whold conversations and his last words.  (The) church still trying
to sort it out.

Most or all of the saints and miracle stories are Anthro-cataloged folk stories,
often lifted from pagan god or goddesses, look 'em up yourself.  Same with all
the holidays and there symbolisms.  Easter (Eostra, a saxon goddes of the dawn,
associated with springtime), Christmas tree - pagan christmas evergreen, easter
eggs, young chicks, bunnies -  common pagan symbols of fertility and life,
St. Johns day - Summer solstice,  St. Valentine's day - pagan fertility and lovers
holiday roots,  Christmas - close to winter solstice for a reason, etc.


and the list goes on...

but I find it particularly enlighening to trace the roots of the cristian 
belief system to find that it like other CULTURAL phenomena borrows heavily
from other system even when it claims to be origional or the first.  There's
nothin new under the sun.

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 13:46:59 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Religion
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Oh, and as a follow-up to my last post if anyone is interested I have a book at home
that I could post info from that uses biblical text, mostly from Daniel and Revelations
to convict the pope as the anti-christ.  It's dead-on, the "evidence" is so overwhelming
that it's trippy, I'd beleive it if I believed in the bible or religious prophecy.
Every description of the anti-christ fits the pope as a historical icon, not JP whatever
name is specificaly.

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 14:00:16 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 13:59:40 -0700
In-Reply-To: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
        "Re: jesus raves" (Apr 21, 10:35am)
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Of course, about the only TV preacher who *does* know any of the original
Biblical languages is Gene Scott (gosub alt.fan.gene-scott for further
info :)

phred

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 14:01:54 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Race rubbish...
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Sami Khoury writes:
 > Not flaming, just curious:
 > 
 > > I feel _really_ weird when sometimes I go to an event and notice there
 > > are few, if any, black people. 
 > 
 > Is that not simply another form of discrimination (ie realizing that 
 > there are not "enough"--what constitutes "enough"--people who look a 

Of course I don't think there should be a quota. It just makes me
wonder what the cultural differences are when a race that represents a
substantial part of the population is hardly evident at a gathering.

*RANT ON*

[This is not directed at you Sami, it just needs to be said.]

I don't discriminate. For that matter, I was savagely ostracized
growing up in W.Va and Ky for NOT discriminating, for not being
prejudiced, for not being misogynist, and for criticizing those who
perpetuate hate and belittlement of other people.  I've spent most of
my adult life trying to fix that damage, and it really bothers me when
someone suggests I am being prejudiced. I have worked too hard and
paid too high a price for my ideals to have to put up with that.

And to those who are victims of discrimination: Don't hate. Don't find
the least excuse to scream "Racism!" and accuse and spread more hate. 
I have no sympathy for people who do that, because they are *just* as
bad as those they accuse. You want to save the world? Stop the cycle
of hate.

The bottom line is, I'm not going to be PC for anybody. If you're
going to be offended, then be offended. It's your energy you're
wasting; I won't let you waste mine. Everything I say will offend
someone. I can either follow everybody's instructions on what to say,
or nobody's. I can't follow everybody's.

*RANT OFF*

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 14:14:04 1994
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From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: non-rave threads
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


yep, it's about that time, folks.  i must admit to two things:

1) i find both the racism and religion threads pretty interesting
2) i believe that both are getting out of hand for this particular
mailing list.

those of you who disagree with me, either send private email or
include this info along with the next post about the subject.  i'm
asking this because even worse would be resurrecting the ever
recurring meta thread of "what is appropriate discussion on sfraves?"
everyone gets the same info when they sign up, we all know the
guidelines.

oh, yeah, and those of you who agree with me, please don't send email
to the list saying "yeah, me too"...

Bob


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 15:07:16 1994
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From: pandora@hulk.sfsu.edu (Candice)
Message-Id: <199404212200.PAA03849@hulk.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Fox
To: winston@lurnix.com (Mark Guthrie), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (sfraves)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 15:00:52 -40962758 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9404211816.AA13425@jimi.lurnix.com> from "Mark Guthrie" at Apr 21, 94 11:15:50 am
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Mark Guthrie sez:

> Most or all of the saints and miracle stories are Anthro-cataloged folk stories,
> often lifted from pagan god or goddesses, look 'em up yourself.  Same with all
> the holidays and there symbolisms.  Easter (Eostra, a saxon goddes of the dawn,
> associated with springtime), Christmas tree - pagan christmas evergreen, easter
> eggs, young chicks, bunnies -  common pagan symbols of fertility and life,
> St. Johns day - Summer solstice,  St. Valentine's day - pagan fertility and lovers
> holiday roots,  Christmas - close to winter solstice for a reason, etc.

This is the part of all of this Fox stuff that worries me.  Christians
have an extensive history of going into another culture adopting their 
symbols changing, diluting, or completely dissolving the original meaning
while they say "look, we're with you".  Easter Eggs, a symbol of fertility
have nothing to do with the resurection of Christ.  And (what is now
called) the Christmas Wreath has again nothing to do with Christ but
was displayed during Winter Solstice to welcome the sun back from its
rest.  So now we've got this Fox guy coming into the rave world and saying,
"look, I'm with you".  I won't buy it.  I wish he'd just go away.


Take care,
CC
-- 
Candice			pandora@hulk.sfsu.edu


    I'm nothing now, but I'm something compared to what I used to be.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 15:18:06 1994
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From: pandora@hulk.sfsu.edu (Candice)
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Subject: Re: non-rave threads
To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (sfraves)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 15:11:45 -40962758 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9404212113.AA12131@groovy.us.oracle.com> from "Bob Ramstad" at Apr 21, 94 02:13:54 pm
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Bob Ramstad sez:
> 
> 
> yep, it's about that time, folks.  i must admit to two things:
> 
> 1) i find both the racism and religion threads pretty interesting

Interesting and educational.

> 2) i believe that both are getting out of hand for this particular
> mailing list.

I think that these threads are still somewhat rave related.  Occasionaly
a post appears that may be better suited elswhere but for the most
part things are staying within the rave vein.  The racism discussion
is mostly directed towards how people feel about racism at raves and with
Fox trying to infiltrate the rave scene right here in SF discussion
of the impact of organized religion on the scene is important.

Take care,
CC
-- 
Candice			pandora@hulk.sfsu.edu


    I'm nothing now, but I'm something compared to what I used to be.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 15:36:11 1994
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From: rpcaras@srv.PacBell.COM (Bob Carasik)
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To: pandora@hulk.sfsu.edu
Subject: Re: Fox
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I think Fox is kind of interesting, not that I'm any kind of Christian,
g-d forbid.  But I'd just like to hear him lecture sometime, maybe.  
I don't think he'll be able to appropriate raves for his church with the 
attitudes expressed by his aide today, and I won't worry about it.  
Hey, jsut cause they play techno at a Sharks game doesn't make it a rave!
I'm more interested in how he can claim to be an orthodox Christian; is
he engaged in cultural appropriation, or is it the other way round? 
And Christianity was not the first or last to borrow other folks gods,
Look at what those cold prosaic Romans did to those passionate mushroom-
chompin Greeks.  Bacchus, a pale drunken caricature of the entrancing
devouring Dionysus,  Saturn, a grumbling shadow of cannibalistic Chronos.
Hell, them Romans went and *barfed* after they feasted!  Hypocrites. No 
sacred oracles for them, just deer guts. Techno-fetishisitc aqueduct-swillin
 clear-cuttin legislature-purchasin lost souls, all of 'em.  I gotta go.

AstroBoy

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 15:51:15 1994
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From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Subject: The Earth Day SF Rave Guide!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFRaves)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 15:53:46 PDT
Cc: sfraves-calendar@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFR Calendar)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



The Organic Golden Gate Park party last weekend was quite nice,
good turnout from SFR and the rest of the scene.  I also had
a chance to check out the tail end of Dig that night - it
turned out to be more rap-oriented, with Mark Farina, Dani
and Charlotte tag-teaming - pretty good stuff overall.  Last
Thursday, I also caught Mark Farina and Dani at Flower (@ Deco),
nice space with a mellow crowd of mostly old-skoolers.  This week,
I might check out Wicked, the Launch Pad party, Mushroom Jazz or
Pepper, Together, and/or Light-n Up.  See ya there! :)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------- UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA ---------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friday, April 22nd - Earth Day Wicked
        415.512.5713

Friday, April 22nd - Free Boat Party   415.765.7666

Saturday, April 23rd - Organic
        Jeno  Tony  Graeme  DJ Dan  Simon  Markie
        18+  415.266.8215   415.267.6129

Saturday, April 23rd - Contact
        DJ Jan Cooley
        9:30p - ? (free before 10:30p)
        2721 Broadway, Sacramento   916.484.5661 

Saturday, April 23rd - Universal Groove
        Josh  Erik  Spinner  Jaz  Dave Alga
        10pm - sunrise, $9, all ages.
        415.281.5913  510.869.2727  408.236.2032

Saturday, April 23rd - Launch Pad - 415-487-8497

Sunday, April 24th - Afternoon Vibe
        djs Dave Andersen/Tony D./Thomas
        4:00p-11:00p, 2721 Broadway, Sacramento.  916.484.5661

Sunday, April 24th - Free Outdoor Party at the berkeley waterpark,
        (next to Thunder Bay) ---  daytime

Sunday, April 24th?? - lunar dance festival

Monday, April 25th - Mushroom Jazz productions presents...
        This Is Acid Jazz record release & giveaway what not
        Djs Is  Kevin  Thomas  Bob  and special guest Greyboy
        1190 Folsom St, SF.  10pm-4am.  21+  415.905.8811

Friday, April 29th - R.A.W. (Reactive Audio Wavelength)
        Spun  Jeno  Garth  Suiki  Rick Preston  Dedan  Thomas
        Julius Papp  Christophe  John Howard  Jan Cooley  
        Visuals by Donovan
        10 PM - 8 PM, 18+ After 2 A.M.
        55 Natoma St. Info: 415-243-8181

Saturday, April 30th - Anthem of the Sun
        Jeno  Thomas  Simon  Spun  Markie  Carlos  Rick Preston 
         Dutch  Tony  Ernie Munson  Chris Lum  Ghost  
        415-979-3005  415.905.6312  408.486.9455

Saturday, May 7th - Beltane Wicked
        415.512.5713

Saturday, May 7th - Rush
        Ghost  Simon  Carlos  Bones  Jaz  Christophe
        415.487.7471

Saturday, May 14th - Fundamental
        Spun  Josh  DJ Dan  Ernie Munson  Rick Preston
        Visuals by Donovan, Pure, Ken Stone
        $10, 18+ w/id.  415.487.4339  415.486.9400

Saturday, May 14th - Vision
        Markie Mark  Garth  Josh  Tony  Doran & guests
        415.267.4800

Saturday, June 11th - Basics 2-year anniversary
        415.905.9629


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies, in the house/techno/acid jazz/etc vein.  Some
of them may have ended - let me know when that happens...

---------------------------- T h u r s d a y --------------------------------

Your Sisters' House - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-435-7575
Universal Groove - $5. 415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax Lounge - Acid Jazz w/Julius Papp (San Jose)
Lift - Digit, EFX, David Harness & guests - 55 Natoma, SF - 415.267.5984
Inspirations - 610 Coleman Ave, San Jose.  9pm-2am, 18+.
        408.236.2102  415.267.6974

------------------------------ F r i d a y ----------------------------------

Corduroy City  - $5 - call for DJs and location - 415.974.9715
Life/Twirl - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
	DJs include Doc Martin, Aaron O, Pete Avila
Deep - Nikki Rivera, Jason Hayes, Lewis. 6th & Harrison (the End-Up)
Raw - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, David Harness & guests - 540 Howard - 415.243.8181
Ooga Booga - 2600 Watt Ave (upstairs @ country club lanes) - 916.484.4006
Apocalypse - 16th & Harrison, $7, all ages - 415.979.8411
        [04.22 - Demigod,DRC,Buck,Frank Nitty,Richie,Binnie,Ben,
                 Galen,Kwashi,Maxx,Gary,Spinner,Dice,Mars + RON D CORE]
        [04.29 - Demigod,DRC,Binnie,Ben,Galen,Kwashi,Frank Nitty,
                 Christophe, Gary Maxx, Chris Lum, R A W]

---------------------------- S a t u r d a y --------------------------------

Dorothy's Tribe - Neon Leon, Rick Preston, Tommy Rogers & guests
	6am-2pm at the EndUp, 401 6th @ Harrison.  $2.  415.979.4515
Funky Buddha - presented by Spundae - 435 Broadway, 9pm til late.
        Head on House DJs: Simon, Henrik, Ernie, Jay-J, Mic, Eric Lacy, Josh.
        House of Funk & Killa Grooves: Bam Bam, Miquel, Melvin J, John Howard
        21+, $8 before midnite.  415.764.2922
Dig! - DJs George and Charlotte. the Kennel Club, Divisadero & Grove.
        [next one April 30th]
Contact! - various guest DJs. $5, 18+, 2721 Broadway, Sacramento.  916.484.5661

------------------------------ S u n d a y ----------------------------------

Groove Morning - 6am-3pm, 18+, $5.  Mission Rock, China Basin.  415.905.6441
Sunday School - Tommy Roger, Aaron O, Swing Kid, Smile-E.  6am-midnight.
        free before 2, $2 after.  the EndUp (6th & Harrison).  415.543.7700
Signs of Life - 375 11th @ Harrison (DNA).  $3, 6am-3pm, 21+
Good Housekeeping - presented by Flavor - w/sound technicians Alfie, James,
        Markie, Harry Who & live guests.  7am-4pm, $4, 21+.  
        spuds & stuff @ 9.  1190 Folsom St, SF.   415.928.2710
Light-n Up - 1015 Folsom, 21+, 9am-5pm.  415.267.7615
Sunset - 2pm-sunset. Free! - 415.985.5264

Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (usually last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Ameba Ambient Tofu BBQ + films - BBQ lit at 5pm; bring BBQables, blankets,
        records.  1732 Haight.
Spundae - various guest DJs - 9pm-5am, 21+, $5 b4 12 - 55 Natoma. 415.974.9389
I-Beam Tea Dance - Neon Leon & others - 5pm-1am. 1748 Haight.

------------------------------ M o n d a y ----------------------------------

Mushroom Jazz (Jazid Up)- acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is,
	Alex, Kevin, Bob Taylor and/or Julius Papp.
	$4, 10pm-4am.  1190 Folsom St, 21+. 415-905-8811
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@ Montgomery) in San Jose.
Pepper - various djs - 510 larkin @ turk  (Deco), 21+

----------------------------- T u e s d a y ---------------------------------

Together/Happiness - 21+, $5, 1015 Folsom - 10pm-3:30am - 415-979-8825
Check - rare grooves & house - Alfie, James & guests - 
        the I-Beam, 1748 Haight @ Cole.  21+, $2.  415.668.6006
Body and Soul - Larry Blakes, Berkeley 10pm-2am, acid jazz and funk $3

--------------------------- W e d n e s d a y -------------------------------

Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X). 21+.  408-236-3732
Fixx - Jan Cooley, Phillip, Aaron, Neon Leon.  Cocktails, 9th & Howard.
Stone Groove - acid jazz n' cosmic funk.  presented by Bulletproof.
        $3, 21+, 9pm-2am.  Miss Pearl's, 601 Eddy @ Larkin.  415.255.7168.
        [April DJs - Mark Farina, Gavan, Dani, Alex, Kevin, Gerry V, Kirk,
                     Andrew (Groove Merchant), Harry Who]
SPAZ (Semi-Permanent Autonomous Zone), 2 sound systems, new DJs and live
        performances each week.  $3, 60 Sixth Street.  info 415.sols666 
        [4/27 - Captain Bastard mans the moongarden > court is being held
         by Sir Sensual > DJ Sunflrfish and the disco balls >>>]
Recycle - every other Weds w/Carlos, Dutch, Christophe & guests. 415.599.3750
Pacific - 683 Clementina @ 8th (between Folsom & Howard) - 
        Starts at 10pm, $5.  415.985.5264
Gemini - josh, spun, donald glaude, la paix, rick preston, dj dan,
        carlos & dutch.  415.979.4915

------------------------------- Info Lines ----------------------------------

Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087.  Usually has 5-10 listings, updated daily.
Elmo - 415-884-ABCD

------------------------------ Radio Shows ----------------------------------
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Sunday evening 6:30-9pm - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Sunday evening 9-11pm - Universal radio at 89.1 FM.  Trance dance
        and power house.  Guest DJs weekly (SF & East Bay)
Sunday night 10pm-2am - Ambience w/Michael Hayes & David X  KWOD 106.5 (Sac)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe or uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

(type 'u' in place of the '*' - i've taken out the 'u' so this message
 passes thru majordomo's filter)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 15:58:14 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 15:53:56 pst
From: "Barry Alexander" <barryale@symantec.com>
Message-Id: <9403217669.AA766968836@symantec.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re[2]: Matthew Fox's 'Rave in the Nave'
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


nrg sez:
>
>  o Christ on the Cross has little if no meaning to anyone I know. Rather,
>    it seems a growingly inappropriate anachronism heavily burdened with
>    2000 years of questionable cultural/mythological baggage. I shudder to
>    think at the volumes of blood let in Christ's name. As a myth *or as a
>    factual event* it has simply outlived it's usefulness if, in fact, it
>    ever had any. So Cosmic Christ still puts me off.
>
    did me too, i dont understand the preoccupation with christ.  its sorta
    like those elvis sightings.  people, the guy is dead.  yeah, he was cool
    and all that, he taught some heavy shit, but lets address the now.

>  o I was more than a little dismayed at your barely masked contention
>    that "use of drugs or mushrooms to reach a mystical state" implies 
>    "opting out into some cynical, self-pitying stupor," especially given
>    that you cite aboriginal (indigenous?) peoples as one of his/your
>    models, many of whom have/had shamanic traditions of which naturally
>    occurring plant psychoactives are an integral part. 
>
    say it brother!!!

>    God and the cumulative psychic manifestations of life may easily be
>    present in dimensions reachable by a simple chemical. Organisms are,
>    after all, not only spiritual beings, but also bio*chemical* systems.
>    Why then this chemical alienation? Does it make it too easy? Does one
>    have to be *worthy* of god (like we've been hearing for 10000 years?)
>    I sure hope not. 
>   
>    People find god in their own way. The conscious use of psychoactives
>    towards these or other like goals is an entirely valid and historically
>    verified approach. 
>
    yeah, until this fox guy or anyone else for that matter has the courage
    to acknowlege these points.  i'll save my spiritual endeavors to going
    to raves.

    barry

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 15:59:03 1994
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To: rpcaras@srv.pacbell.com (Bob Carasik), pandora@hulk.sfsu.edu
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Fox
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At  3:36 PM 04/21/94 -0700, Bob Carasik wrote:

>Hell, them Romans went and *barfed* after they feasted!  Hypocrites. No 
>sacred oracles for them, just deer guts. Techno-fetishisitc aqueduct-swillin
> clear-cuttin legislature-purchasin lost souls, all of 'em.  I gotta go.

Hey, they sound fun ta me! Where they live again?
;)

>AstroBoy

-j



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 16:07:11 1994
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From: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Audium
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A while back there was a thread concerning this place.  Anybody ever go?  
Critiques?

Sami

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 16:46:06 1994
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From: "Michael Standish" <standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com>
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 16:46:32 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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On Apr 21,  1:00pm, ethan miller wrote:
<stuff deleted>
> I was more than a little dismayed at your barely masked contention
> that "use of drugs or mushrooms to reach a mystical state" implies
> "opting out into some cynical, self-pitying stupor,"
<more stuff deleted>
>-- End of excerpt from ethan miller

	Well thats a pretty damn good description of what drugs
do to me. Drugs of any kind completly destroy my spiritual
conection with the gods.(or the universe, the force whatever
you wanna call it)

Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S




From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 17:03:41 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 17:03:10 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: non-rave threads
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>yep, it's about that time, folks.  i must admit to two things:
>
>1) i find both the racism and religion threads pretty interesting
>2) i believe that both are getting out of hand for this particular
>mailing list.
>
>those of you who disagree with me, either send private email or
>include this info along with the next post about the subject.  i'm
>asking this because even worse would be resurrecting the ever
>recurring meta thread of "what is appropriate discussion on sfraves?"
>everyone gets the same info when they sign up, we all know the
>guidelines.
>
>oh, yeah, and those of you who agree with me, please don't send email
>to the list saying "yeah, me too"...
>
>Bob

While I'm not sure that the point/counterpoint biblical citation stuff has
a place on this list (no offense intended); raving as it relates to
spirituality most certainly does; (IMO:) of course.

take it easy
ethan



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 17:11:46 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 17:10:34 -0700
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To: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: non-rave threads
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I don't have any rave threads.  I look bad in baggies and
horizontal stripes just do NOT go with my wide hips.

:-)

(Sorry, I couldn't resist the pun.)

Laura

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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 17:03:40 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: sfr.renegade.this.saturday (4.23)
Cc: sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Greetings Friends & Co-Conspirators!

Following numerous proddings both internal and external, we (you, me,
bryce, us: we :) have decided to try and unleash the first full-blown,
*free*, outdoor, all ages, sfraves renegade rave and general bru-ha-ha of
the spring season. Yippee!

We've selected a beautiful and centrally located sf spot of great renegade
tradition and no little infamy--jsl once decribed this spot as weak (with a
little w) so you know it's great ;-). Said spot has a glorious view of the
bay, large warehouse walls (for projecting on) and has been recently
renovated, now sporting a *very wide* swath of asphalt for your dancing
comfort and convenience. 

SoundVision will be in full effect so bring your ears ;) On the wheels of
steel will be:

  Meme
  Lee An
  Ethan
  Laura
  Buck

Yes, that's right, Buck. He's psyched, we're psyched. Some other guest djs
may join us as well.

What You Can Do:
Bring yourself, bring your friends (lots), bring your absolutely positive
energy, food, drink, duraflame logs, blankets, pillows, toys, lights
doohickeys and other enhancements. I know one of you (but I forget who) has
a video projector so please bring it and twist our minds :)

I've printed up little fliers (we thought we'd call it Launch Pad, cos of
the tarmac :) so if you're in sf tonite or tommorrow gimme a call, come get
some and give em to all your friends and cohorts. Or, you/they can call:
415.487.8497 for up-to-date information.

Remember this is *your scene*--we're just facilitating--this party can be
anything you want it to be, so please, set aside the night and come help us
blast this one off! 

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



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   religion flames    <<<=====>>>    east-west coast flames


   racism flames      <<<=====>>>    pizza flames


am i being trite?


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 18:06:04 1994
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Date: 21 Apr 1994 16:08:53 -0800
From: "Scott Nozawa" <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>
Subject: Re: Non-Rave
To: "SpaceDancers" <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

                       Subject:                               Time:15:42
  OFFICE MEMO          RE>Non-Rave                            Date:4/21/94

     My $0.02:

     Please...  this is SFRaves.  Granted the Bible is a good story, but if you
choose to quote it or talk about it's (or any other religious document's)
values please use them to show how they have affected you and how this involves
raving. 

with a worn out delete key...          T. Scot
     



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 18:47:18 1994
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From: meclay@netcom.com (Michael E. Clay)
Message-Id: <199404220148.SAA04516@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Audium Review
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 18:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
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>Subject: Audium


>A while back there was a thread concerning this place.  Anybody ever go?  
>Critiques?

>Sami

  Great little theatre of sound run by Stanley Shift (sp?) who controls
  the performances of multichannel music that he composes. Everyone 
  should try it at least once but make sure to take some friends to
  insure a performance. If only 2 people show up he may or may not run
  the show and crowds are not to be found at a space that has been going
  for more than a decade. Check pink sheet for times etc.

  The music is not beat oriented but rather inspired by a process more
  like lucid dreaming - music concrete, ambience constiting of children,
  parades etc. are swept around, above and under you as you sit in total
  darkness in a room resembling a planetarium but filled with 100+ 
  speakers (talk about cross-overs!) Large woofers in the subfloor often
  vibrate the entire area etc. Sounds swirl and pass through you... close
  your eyes or open them doesn't matter all that much.. disorienting to
  some, fascinating to some, boring to others - opinions vary. 

  I last attended with a group of four friends and another couple showed
  up so the performance was on. After the show our group was completely
  thumbs up. Outside I noticed Jennifer crying - she said it was because
  she experienced her birth during the show.(She was unaltered by chemicals
  except those produced internally). Her response while not typical is
  well within the range of reported reactions. You should note that Stanley
  said his wife is bored by his compositions so there is quite a range.

  So definitely go try it and see ... 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 19:24:12 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 19:24:06 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404220224.TAA06426@well.sf.ca.us>
To: mauzi@aol.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  Matthew Fox's 'Rave in the Nave'
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

My initial freeflow response to cliff's posting about Matthew Fox follows,
with the caveat that it is an instantaneous online respone, with no editing
or months of refined generation of ideas.

I'm glad Fox recognizes that this post-modern generation has the tools to
make grand spiritual and social changes.  Cliff's version of his thoughts
indicate that he's forgotten that every generation is the first post-modern
generation from the previous one.  That technology and other variables seem
to be exploding exponentially is a given, but I can attest that many people
in the 60's recognized the same, even to the point of noticing that we were
the "first" postmodern generation.

If there was a break with the past, that break was absolutely related to the
widespread use of sacramental substances, both chemical and organic, which
allowed the individual to experience alternate realities that differed from
the socially imprinted norm.  To disallow, or put down, the validity of
these experiences, and its social effect both then and now, misses the key
nature of those experiences.  Let's not forget that path of sacramental
substances may well have deeper roots than any mystical tradition, but goes
back before recorded history.

In fact, those substances may even be necessary to break down socially
imposed conditioning or imprinting. The rave community did not spring solely
from technological experiments with computing, lasers and midimedia.  Its
roots are firmly in the tradition of ritual substance communally shared.
To make statements putting down the validity of this tradition violates what
is happening here.  Further, the right to explore one's own mind may be the
most basic right of all, and any action that does not further the cause of
obtaining those rights is a disservice.

That he recognizes the validity of ancient ways of spirituality is fine,
especially that he rcognizes what does not even need to be spoken of in
aboriginal cultures.  So God is in everything, so what's new. In my life
that's a given to the depth of my being. But even the native tradition of
the creator may not give true picture of some high-level heterarchical
self-organizing quantum principle that underlies the universe.

So making love is OK in a committed relationship?  Thanks alot. Non-corecive
good-hearted fucking in the streets may be just as good.  Are we seeing the
new rules of *scripture* being formed, updating the old sins to post-modern
level?  In some aboriginal cultures, ritual fucking was essential to the
spritual health of the community.  Young people were encouraged to split off
into the woods.  Dream desires were fulfilled by authority of the community.
Don't tell me what the acceptable social norm should be.  Just do what's
good for *you.*

Certainly, Fox's approach moves strongly in the desired direction.  Just
don't put down something other's do that doesn't fit your own choices.

In the long run, though the outward death wish of present society may be
mitigated by a move in Fox's direction, and a better world fostered by him,
the true mysticism will always remain underground.

Skennah Kowa.  Hiro Kone.
alpha-10

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 19:31:08 1994
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Subject: Re: Audium Review
To: meclay@netcom.com (Michael E. Clay)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 19:15:38 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404220148.SAA04516@mail.netcom.com> from "Michael E. Clay" at Apr 21, 94 06:48:29 pm
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Michael E. Clay spake:
> 
> >Subject: Audium
> 
> 
> >A while back there was a thread concerning this place.  Anybody ever go?  
> >Critiques?
> 
> >Sami
> 
[excellent review]

	Also in the thread was the suggestion of getting together a
relatively sizeable sfraves bunch to go to see a show...
I'm up for it.


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From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 19:44:45 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404220244.TAA10272@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Launch Pad/Spiral Jive
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 19:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
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Spiral Jive was also planning a Renegade Party This Saturday,
and I dont like the Idea of going against each other and Organic
Here is my Idea,

Lets do Launch pad as planned but add 2 spiral jive djs.
We'll keep their set up in a nearby van, and if the cops come
we'll send them to set up at their location, and we'll party
all night no matter what.

If this sounds good I think we should have a list vote.
This is acceptable to them and they are good people...DJs.

Bryce, Ethan, SFRavers in the House?

salutations, allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 19:57:58 1994
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From: "Brad M. Steffen" <fuzzy@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199404220256.AA03386@crl.crl.com>
Subject: CompuGov Deal Goes Through (humor?)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 19:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
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Forwarded message:
From com-priv-forw@lists.psi.com Thu Apr 21 17:57:46 1994
Message-Id: <2976040329.0.p00997@psilink.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 14:57:10 -0400
To: "com-priv" <com-priv@psi.com>
From: "David Rothman" <rothman@netcom.com>
Reply-To: rothman@netcom.com
Sender: p00997@psilink.com
Subject: CompuGov Deal Goes Through
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.6.1)

WASHINGTON-The federal government was sold today to CompuGov, a
high-tech consortium that includes IBM, Microsoft, AT&T, Northern
Telecom, Sony and several other corporate giants in Europe and Japan.

"It's the ultimate vindication of the Free Market philosophy," said a
high-ranking Administration official. "This deal is the logical
extension of lessons from the computer and telecommunications 
industries. What's government but the processing and transmission of
information?"

Effective immediately, the popular vote was ended at the federal level.
Instead Americans will be able to buy Stakeholder Shares. Those with
sufficient numbers of Shares may attend CompuGov board meetings in
Tokyo. Members of Congress each received 10,000 Stakeholder Shares and
Golden Parachute protection--in addition to extra Shares reflecting the
sizes of past campaign donations from Political Action Committees run by
CompuGov members.

CompuGov announced the spin-off of most nondefense assets and the
dismissal of 75 percent of the federal workforce. Tennessee entrepreneur
Chris Whittle will buy the Department of Education, for example, while
Humana will purchase the Department of Health and Human Services.

"We regret the need for downsizing," a CompuGov spokesperson said, "but
education and health have been lacking as profit centers. "They just are
not part of our corporate mission. Our role is simply to protect our
customers against force and fraud."

Asked about the pending spin-off of the Securities and Exchange
Commission to New York businessman John Gotti, the spokesperson said:
"We must always be open to the wisdom of the Free Market. If Mr. Gotti
can make the SEC more responsive to the needs of business, I see no
reason why we could not also sell him the Justice Department."

Final negotiations are continuing between CompuGov and the individual
states, with deals expected shortly. Only Massachusetts is balking.

"The consensus is that the Free Enterprise system is best," said the
CompuGov spokesperson. "America's big mistake was in simply trying to
get government out of the economy. The best solution is to get
government out of government." 

                              - 30 -

[Hey, it's still April.]

**************************************************************************
David H. Rothman                             "So we beat on, boats against
rothman@netcom.com                            the current...."
805 N. Howard St., #240
Alexandria, Va. 22304
703-370-6540(o)(h)
          I *encourage* online reproduction of my public postings.
       Permission hereby granted--implicit, explicit, whatever. Down
          with unnecessary restrictions on the flow of knowledge!
**************************************************************************




From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 20:40:35 1994
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 20:40:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Transistor Rhythm <psiborg@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Non-Rave
To: Scott Nozawa <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>
Cc: SpaceDancers <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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On 21 Apr 1994, Scott Nozawa wrote:

>                        Subject:                               Time:15:42
>   OFFICE MEMO          RE>Non-Rave                            Date:4/21/94
> 
>      My $0.02:
> 
>      Please...  this is SFRaves.  Granted the Bible is a good story, but if you
> choose to quote it or talk about it's (or any other religious document's)
> values please use them to show how they have affected you and how this involves
> raving. 
> 
> with a worn out delete key...          T. Scot
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
               me too...  :)

enough is enough.  while raving is very 'spiritual' to me as well,  i 
find that the said thread has been reduced to an 'us-them' debate.  
i'm with T. Scott,  if it has something to do with the rave experience 
then i'm more than eager to listen.  otherwise, shuuutt upppp.  oy!

see you in the phuture,
  _-_->psiborg<-_-_

p.s.  laura,  your threads pun was quite timely and necessary.  :)
      
 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 21 21:02:58 1994
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From: humphrey@unity.ncsu.edu
Message-Id: <9404220402.AA27754@cc02du.unity.ncsu.edu>
Subject: california here i come
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 00:02:55 -0400 (EDT)
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hello. my name is john humphrey and i just subbed to sfraves. 

the reason i did so is because i am going to be in santa cruz on may 8th 
to go to my sister's wedding, and want to meet as many people as i 
can while i'm there. it will be my first time in california in about 19 
years.

i also am a dj and would like to try to hook up with any promoters 
throwing events around that time about possible gigs. i don't think i 
will get there before the 8th but i will be around until the end of the 
month.

anyone who lives in san francisco or santa cruz or anywhere near there 
and would like to hook up, mail me and we'll get together!
the same applies to anyone working on events in the area..please get in 
touch!

also, i was told that san francisco and santa cruz are about an hour and 
a half apart. is that correct?

thnaks, and hope to see you soon!

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//////////  john     humphrey@unity.ncsu.edu ///////
/////////  rainbow   john_humphrey@ncsu.edu ///////
////////  humphrey   pgp key upon request  ///////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 00:35:21 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 00:35:19 -0700
From: Lisa M. Wyatt <lwyatt@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Message-Id: <199404220735.AA02935@maelstrom.berkeley.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Culture Communication
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


True...there HAVE been a high number of messages on the various
groups at parties, on racism, on prejudice...etc. But please realize
these are HUGE issues, issues that continually affect all aof us, 
and communication is VITAL if we ever want to solve the difficulties
brought on by them. And this, if I'm not mistaken, is a communication
zone, eh? If more needs to be said, it seems very appropriate and
necessary that it should be.

Enjoy your days!
Lisa.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 00:56:22 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 00:56:15 -0700
From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404220756.AAA10634@soda.berkeley.edu>
To: sfraves.planners@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: impact is where i work, go see this show
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



----------------------------->  IMPACT  <-----------------------------

			lighting and production

				presents

			"THE LIGHT FANTASTIC"

please join us for an afternoon of high tech lighting and lunch muncies

		a demonstration of High End Systems 
		intelligent lighting and special effects.
	
		---a coreographed light and sound show!---

FEATURING:			the revolutionary new cyberlight
				intellabeam 700hx
				trackspot 8500q
				emulator
				f-100 fog machine and cold flow system
				dataflash xenon strobe system
				multiray
				df-30 diffusion fogger (oil cracker)

			    *controlled by*
			Studiovision software on an
			Apple Macintosh MIDI platform

			ten minute long continuous demos
		       	  from twelve noon to three pm
			       on 29 april 1994
				  do drop by!
created by: clint gilbert, terry ohm, lady trash, tim miller, howard will 
				and andre lucero

Showroom location:  one mississippi street (@sixteenth) in san francisco




From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 01:14:41 1994
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From: kalin@netcom.com (andy kalinowitsch)
Message-Id: <199404220815.BAA19207@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Audium
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 01:15:56 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404211648.C11302-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu> from "Sami Khoury" at Apr 21, 94 04:02:38 pm
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>
>A while back there was a thread concerning this place.  Anybody ever go?  
>Critiques?

i went expecting to hear some funky 3-d stereophonic sensaround 
waves of tangerine dream weaving all around me, and i was rather
disappointed.  the arrangement and acoustics are incredible -- 132
speakers -- but the show itself seemed somewhat dated, like maybe
mid-to-late 70's.  a lot of old synthesizer sounds, running up and
down the scales and such.  there were definitely some neat effects,
though -- like a drop of water that seems to splash through the
whole room, and a train that runs through everything.  if you've
got nothing else to do on a friday or saturday night and you've
got eight bucks to spend, it's something to consider ...

andy

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 01:15:40 1994
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From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Message-Id: <199404220816.BAA23600@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Launch Pad/Spiral Jive
To: mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu (Mark Metz / Future Forum)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 01:16:52 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404220244.TAA10272@soda.berkeley.edu> from "Mark Metz / Future Forum" at Apr 21, 94 07:44:38 pm
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My mailer says that Mark Metz / Future Forum said:
> 
> ...<proposal for spiral jive to join with launch pad>...
>
> If this sounds good I think we should have a list vote.
> This is acceptable to them and they are good people...DJs.
> 
i'm very interested to hear everyone's feelings on this. perhaps 
you could send ethan or i some mail, and we'll take your thoughts 
into consideration.  we will also summarize to the list. 

if you do want your thoughts to be heard, please let us know ASAP,
since this is happening a scan 45 hours from when i post this.
Thanks, all!
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@netcom.com-----
"We have a problem. Too many of you know who we are."  AMI
Semiconductor ad copy

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 07:16:52 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 07:17:39 +0800
From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <9404221417.AA01480@gaia.internex.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, lwyatt@ocf.berkeley.edu
Subject: About Race (Was Re: Culture Communicationn
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 6612
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Fri Apr 22 00:37 PDT 1994
> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 00:35:19 -0700
> From: Lisa M. Wyatt <lwyatt@ocf.berkeley.edu>
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Culture Communication
> 
> 
> True...there HAVE been a high number of messages on the various
> groups at parties, on racism, on prejudice...etc. But please realize
> these are HUGE issues, issues that continually affect all aof us, 
> and communication is VITAL if we ever want to solve the difficulties
> brought on by them. And this, if I'm not mistaken, is a communication
> zone, eh? If more needs to be said, it seems very appropriate and
> necessary that it should be.
> 
> Enjoy your days!
> Lisa.
> 

I agree, this is VERY relevant to the Scene (at least here in SF)
and I think that we can make alot of head way in this group where a lot
of different people know each other (at least virtually :)
Just make sure that as you post and reply you honor and respect the opinions
and feelings of those around you.

In fact the opportunity that is before the rave scene is to ADDRESS and
go through these issues once and for all.  It has been my observation
that we have to chance to go beyond political correctness.  Affirmative
Action is no longer needed when people of other backgrounds get
together socially.  I worked at a _very_ progressive computer
networking organization a few years ago, and people would always say to
me, "we need to get more people of color in here" my response to them
was "well, how many people of color do YOU know personally?" Most
people hire or refer other people that they know socially!  If young
people party with diversity, they will build a society that IS diverse,
from the ground up.  Equality will not have to be legislated (which
AA/EEOG is, it's a _last resort_, it should not have to be this way.)
The Scene (except for it's deplorable performance with regards to women
DJs) has been pretty good in this arena, the problems that have been
there and that have been aired (often starting on this forum), I have
seen efforts made to address these issues.  As far as racism and code
words, well of course they exist,  and I have seen them used on this
and other list,we have to guard against stereotyping of all sorts.
I don't mean the ocasional joke about "Black people having more rhythym"
or "Patriarcial White Males" it is important for us to make jokes BUT realize
that these type of things are stereotypes and that they can be very dangerous
if believed.  Stereotypes come in both good and bad flavors, both are damaging
to the believer and to the person that is the target.  My friend Jack who is
chineese says that when he would pal around with a black friend of his (who
also goes to stanford) when people would find out that they both went there
they would ask Jack what his major was and his friend what sport did he play :)
I'm sure these people didn't think that they were being racist, but their
questions originated in stereotypes that have very racial overtones.

As I have said before, I have no problems with "Oaktown Hommies" comming
to ANY party as long as they respect the people around them.  Unfortunately
I have often heard remarks about said group along with talk about "ganstas"
and the like.  This saddens me because eventhough some of these folks could
cause trouble at parties, except for one incident (Candlestick park), I don't
know of any overwhelming occurance of trouble by any of these groups.
I also never hear people being afraid of the "Concord Cowboys" who IMHO
have as much stereotypic potential for perpetuating violence and abuse
at a party as any "darker" posse.  Let's face it, fear and prejudice go
hand in hand.  I must say I'm more afraid to be alone in Concord at night
(where black men have been lynched at BART stations in RECENT history) then
in Emeryville or Oakland, but it doesn't stop me from going to martin's parties
when they turn up there.  The rule is not to be stupid but we must all realize
that racism IS A DISEASE of our culture, it is a strong meme and WE ALL HAVE
IT to some degree.  Raving, in proper doses administed with love has proven to 
be a _very_ effective treatment against this disease which is why I will be 
on the dance-floor tonight, and future nights.  This is why I also tend to go to
parties where the racial makeup is more diverse (WICKED, GATHERING, SPUNDAE)
It's nice to bask in a cocoon of safety and love and be around people that all
look and think and act like you, it is rejuvinating and re-energizing, and there
is nothing wrong with it.  But that is NOT why I go to parties.  I go to 
parties to _radiate_ love, respect and consciousness.  The Oaktown Homies
and the Concorde Cowboys both need to learn this lesson badly, what better place
than at a rave?  As some of you know, I'm a rather large :) guy.  This often
gives me a sense of (and actually !) security that many other people can't 
have.  I try to use this not in an intimidating way but in a positive way.
I go up to the gangsta and the cowboys and talk to them, tell them I'm glad they
made the party, answer their questions, etc.  Let me ask you, if you don't
do this who will?  As many of you know, I often wind up talking to the police
at renegades and the like, some people say I have a "way" with them, but what 
you may not know is how hard this is for me to do.  I grew up in an 
environment where  THE POLICE WERE NOT YOU FRIEND!  When I was 
young in Brooklyn, folks would call the neighborhood black panthers during
a domestic squabble before they would call the police.  My inner automatic
feelings about police border on out and out hatred but I also have learned
to realize that underneath that uniform is a human being, no matter what
an asshole he/she is being, they were a little baby once, who came into
this world with fear and wonder and all that other bullshit is just (as my
man jsl would say) frontin'.  What all this leads up to is you have to 
look BEYOND the enemy.  What you might see are your own fears and prejudices.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEXUS SYSTEMS/CYBERTRIBE-5 : Voice:(415)965-2384   Fax: (415)473-3062
Editor/Instigator/Catalyst : Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>
Production Crew            : Universal Movement Trinity <umt@nexsys.net>

        "They might stop the party, but they can't stop the future"

                --PGP Public key available upon request--
     "If I can't trance, I don't want to be part of your revolution"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 07:31:08 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Non-Rave Posts...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Oh no, not another hard line....

Yes, there have been some interesting threads about:  religion, race,
politix, and a host of other subjects.

I have found that most of these topics started out as rave related
conversation.  And they end up as rave realted conversation.  And end as
rave realted as well.  There is no such thing IMO as a pure rave post.
Unless all anyone wants is where the party is, who threw it, how good/bad
it was.  To me this seems pretty boring.

Also, given the fact that the number of parties have shrunk (yes, the scene
has become less larger than life) to just a FEW promoters, and even fewer
DJ's people are willing to give a listen to, it becomes inevitable that we
dig a little deeper to find out why we go/don't go to parties, why there
are so few people out, why the number of people throwing parties has
shrunk.  These topics answer some of these questions, even though, on the
surface, it may seem a bit trivial and nit-picky.  The underlying feelings
as to why people do not go out, it seems are numerous, but based in the
realities of life:  money, culture, classification (this is an
oversimplification, but for brevity's sake...).

Just look at what has happened:  People only go out becuase of certain
cliques that may be around.  People go only to hear DJ x,y, or Z.  People
only go out if the party is done by a certain promoter, certain music,
certain classification.  And Whaddaya get?  England ALL OVER AGAIN.  Posses
and more posses.  Gang wars due to party alliances.  The list goes on.  The
same thing is happening here (the rave community US stylee) and it's sad.
The real issue here is that people have rally not noticed it at all.  And
these little prejudices have crept into eevery aspect of what we call rave.

There was a time that if you threw a gig, and did things even half way
decent, you would get a certain number of people.  Now the hardest thing is
getting people to let go of their preconceptions and try something new.
This is especially true of old-skoolers, who still carry hella weight when
it comes to goin' out.  It's all become a business, a way to pay the rent,
a way to get a bit higher in the economic climate, and a way to shut others
down. A way to make sure that people attend only certain events by playing
certain ways/things at some people's parties while playing the best at your
own (so fucking unfair).  A way to make sure you don't get certain
"elements" by having it in certain areas, inviting only certain groups of
people, etc.

So race has everything to do with rave these days (at one time it didn't
the number of people of color going out is rebounding, but for the past two
years it has shrunk to nothing.  The numbers bear me out, and it was NOT
always this way.  Something happened.). Culture has everything to do with
rave (WHO can drive some 60 miles out to a gig, and WHO has the resources
to scramble some resource to get that goal done.  And when you get there
WHO is dancing).  And MONEY has to do with everything!!!! :( :( :( :(
:(!!!!! (YES,  there are PLENTY of RENT RAVES going on.  Plenty of people
getting stiffed due to cash.  People trying to ensure that they get theirs.
Promoters still being greedy.  DJ's still being greedy.  Everyone
wonderin' when they're gonna get theirs.  What bullshit!).

So as I see it, people have begun to analyze how/what they think.  More
importantly we have started to talk about what we see as problems in a very
open way.  This IMHO is a very good thing.  No, the time for brushing shit
under the rug, and saying "well, we know it's unresolvable, so let's just
get back to the subject of rave....", is over.  The fact that we have begun
to talk about it gives least a possibility of resolution.  To me it's
getting real about something we all treasure in one way or another (i.e
rave).  And even though a certain thread may die, it sparks some
conciousness on everyone's part.  Just gives that extra something to think
about when we go out.  You know, remeber what used to THINK about when in a
mass of 2000+ people.  How this many people, from soo many backgrounds, can
put away their shit, and dance, TOGETHER.  Where everyone is there for the
dance.   Where the music guides you into the inner realm (sometimes it
didn't even matter WHAT the DJ was spinning, as long as it was done well.
99% of the time it WAS).  A week later you would see a fellow cracker-jack
along the street, and you two exchange glances that meant "I know where you
were last weekend, and what you looked like with that big smile plastered
across that face of yours!".  Nothing more neede to be said, all done with
a look.

I think these discussions will eventaully take us back to these essential
roots of the rave culture.  One good time crackin-on with your friends, in
a sea of cracker-jacks, everyone there for the music, everyone there for
the dance.

Coolness.

Audi 5,
John

P.S.  So I guess I think the discussions of late have been MORE than
relevant to our scene.  It's all about that communication.  Tellin' that
story, and having others tell theirs.  Right on!

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 07:42:37 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 07:41:14 PDT
From: rpcaras@srv.PacBell.COM (Bob Carasik)
Message-Id: <9404221441.AA23734@zeus.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: brycer@netcom.com, allen@srv.PacBell.COM, nrg@srv.PacBell.COM
Subject: Re: Launch Pad/Spiral Jive
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Combining parties sounds like a great idea to me, esp., if one
group has a backup site prepared.  Esp. with all these underattended
things happening, instead two almosts, let's have one success!

AstroBoy

P.S Am I missing something or is this decision a no-brainer?  Seems
like the only issue is having more but shorted dj sets.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 07:52:43 1994
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From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: A message from the UK
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I got this message via the umt mail alias (some of you remember
CyberTribe-5).  I thought I would share it with all of you,
I have removed the name to respect the person's privacy.

----------------------------------------

To: umt@nexsys.net
From: 
Date: 24 Jan 94 10:02:54
Subject: re:CyberTribe rising
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
Content-Length: 3819

I read your piece entitled CyberTribe rising when it was posted on
the activl listserv (is that the right word?) anyway, it was
interesting to hear that people call themselves ravers in parts of
the world other than here and that huge raves are still happening
elsewhere if not in the country of their origin. One aspect that had
me a tad worried was the prominence given to the role drugs play in
the rave culture and the assumption that the rave culture was some
kind of unifying world family. I've been living in and arround the
rave 'scene' for a good many years now and have come to the
conclusion that it and the drugs that define it are very much a
part/symptom of the dominant 'control' culture that sructures our
governments etc. Apart from having watched a number of people i love
die or go insane from drugs, i have also observed that at the times
when things look especially promising for any kind of breakthrough in
favour of the creation of more TAZs or PAZs the quantities of drugs
miraculously increase to guarantee that as many people as possible
are too lost to the world to do anything consciously positive. This
may sound a lot like a far fetched conspiracy theory but time and
again I and many others have noticed that in the summer when the
weather and the mood calls for parties and festivals it is suddenly
easier to buy smack than anything else.
  Drugs and the culture they have evolved from/into provide an escape
from the 'real world' in all its grimness but due to the fact that as
a reaction against that world they are still part of it and due to
the fact they are manifestly predudicial to life I do not feel like
celebrating them, neither do I feel like part of a 'family'.
  I am what is called here in Britain a 'New Age Traveller', this is
not what i call myself believing that labels of all kinds are
restrictive bullshit, but what it does mean is that as part of a
group of people that has been conclusively shat on by our government
i do feel i have a lot of personal experience of sub/counter-culture.
The rave thing grew out of the festival scene which was very much
Traveller territory for many years before the ravers arrived. What I
mean by that is that Travellers organised them (if the semi-
miraculous accumulation of random people in one place at one time can
be called organisation) Travellers provided food, entertainment and
of course cheap soft drugs in copious quantities and so we bumbled on
happy and relatively un-noticed (except for events like the battle of
the beenfield in '85) till rave happened.  Then thousands of peole
descended on festivals for the weekend with no idea of how to behave,
left their excrement lying around took lots of hard drugs, left
enough rubish lying on the ground to totally cover the grass, left
broken glass where our children and animals trod on it and caused
enough trouble to motivate the government to draw up legislation
aimed at us specifically in order to outlaw our way of life.
  I don't of course believe that the ravers acted in malice but in
ignorance, nonetheless the damage is done. The driving desire of
thousands of people to forget their lives for a while by dancing and
taking what were then thought to be harmless drugs has destryoed our
small attempt to build a permanent autonomous zone in this country. I
feel sad and angry about this and very sceptical of any kind of
concept of world family and love and harmony based on the party ethic
because it is essentially escapist, short-sighted and self-
destructive.

  As for cyber-space I have only recently discovered it and I'm very
excited about its possibilities. I was intrigued and puzled at your
linking that with the rave scene, but maybe rave means something
different on your side of the atlantic!

Keep cheerful,





















From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 10:28:52 1994
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From: jocelyn@hal.com (Jocelyn Cordell)
Message-Id: <9404221728.AA23122@dre.hal.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Launch Pad/Spiral Jive
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Aye!

Combine & combust! 

Jocelyn

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 10:41:44 1994
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From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Message-Id: <199404221742.KAA12706@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Pure space....  A new experience
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


   I attended the 2nd "Pure Space" happening this Thursday evening
at the DNA Lounge on 11th St.    For those that missed it,  I would
venture to say you missed ONE HOPPIN party.....  The vibe was what
really made that party something I'll remember for a long time.

   I would say about 60 - 100 people showed up,  and the music was
just killer,  some of the trancies acid stuff I've heard in a long 
time.    When I got there,  Josh was spinning,  and I've heard some 
really great new stuff.    Initially,  he had trouble keeping up the 
beat,   but once he warmed up,  the place was one hoppin party.    
As usual,  I went  totally insane,  trancing out,  digging the shit 
out of the great music.

   About 2 pm,  just before the bar closed,   I talked to Marky Mark
and said "give me a good dance workout",  and he lived up to my 
expectations by laying down one of the longest most continious sets of 
NEW MUSIC!! and stuff I haven't heard before.   For all I know,  it 
could have been some really old stuff,  but in the state my head was 
in,  I hardly cared.... They were Loooong sets....

   So,  in conclusion, check out Pure Space as an alternate to Your
Sisters House.... You Won't be dissapointed....

John D.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 10:51:37 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        uunet!motorrad.mfg.sgi.com!standish@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: re: Rave in the Nae
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

 Well thats a pretty damn good description of what drugs
do to me. Drugs of any kind completly destroy my spiritual
conection with the gods.(or the universe, the force whatever
you wanna call it)

Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, have you not done psychedelics or you think your employer is
eavesdropping on your mail?  ;-)

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 10:53:22 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404221753.AA10874@pilot.njin.net>
To: rpcaras@srv.pacbell.com (Bob Carasik)
Cc: allen@srv.pacbell.com, brycer@netcom.com, nrg@srv.pacbell.com,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Launch Pad/Spiral Jive
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Bob Carasik writes:
 > P.S Am I missing something or is this decision a no-brainer?  Seems
 > like the only issue is having more but shorted dj sets.

You know, something I'd like to see sometime is some tag-team DJing.
Never seen it, but it sounds like fun (and sounds like fun to do,
too).

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 11:28:46 1994
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From: seanc43@aol.com
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 14:25:58 EDT
Subject: Records Wanted!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I am looking for record stores that specialize in hard to find 12" funky
house/dance/techno/whatever  records for mail order. Any names, addresses, or
phone #s would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx,

Seanc43@aol.com

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 11:30:47 1994
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Subject: New Bay Area Info Line
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Call the Freak Out line for info on local events (415) 485-6597

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 11:34:44 1994
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From: seanc43@aol.com
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 14:32:00 EDT
Subject: 4:20 Party a Success!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Just want to thank everybody for coming down to the beach for a wicked day!
DJ's John, Pat, Justin, Sean, Josh rocked Kirby Cove with some incredible
tunes.
We'll be doing some more free parties soon so keep in touch either here or
call 
(415) 485-6597.

Lots of love and keep the faith,

SeanC43@aol.com

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 11:44:05 1994
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From: "Michael Standish" <standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com>
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 11:44:25 -0700
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To: winston@lurnix.lurnix.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: re: Rave in the Nae 
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On Apr 22, 10:49am, Mark Guthrie wrote:
>> Subject: re: Rave in the Nae
>>  Well thats a pretty damn good description of what drugs
>> do to me. Drugs of any kind completly destroy my spiritual
>> conection with the gods.(or the universe, the force whatever
>> you wanna call it)
>>
>> Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, have you not done psychedelics or you think your employer is
> eavesdropping on your mail?  ;-)
>
> -Winston
>-- End of excerpt from Mark Guthrie

So what do  you want a laundry list of the drugs I've done? Son
your disk drive ain't that big. Yes "drugs of any kind" includes
psychedelics. Maybee if I did them in moderation. I am however not
cabable of doing drugs in moderation nor can I even begin to
understand why anyone would want to. And no I don't give a shit
what SGI thinks.

Michael Standish DoD #732  standish@motorrad.mfg.sgi.com      '76 R90S




From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 12:37:54 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 12:37:11 -0700
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To: mtnraves@xmission.com, ne-raves@umdd.umd.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Subject: Grand Canyon Festival
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Wired Magazine reported that Megatripolis from the UK was going to join up 
with the Rainbow Gathering to do a big event in the Grand Canyon.

I started reading alt.gathering.rainbow and found out some interesting things:

(1)  The Rainbow Gathering isn't going to be in the Grand Canyon this year.

(2)  Even if it were, the on-line Rainbow people aren't in to the idea of a 
	rave invading their space (ravers are welcome, so long as they leave 
	their generators and loud music at home).

(3) There *is* something happening in the Grand Canyon, it's just
        not quite as it was alluded to in Wired:

>Article 1457 of alt.gathering.rainbow:
>Subject: RE: Rainbow in Wired
>Date: 22 APR 94 19:05:03 GMT
>
>The Gathering which I know about in August at the Grand Canyon is called the
>"World Unity festival and conference" and it's officially from Aug.22-28.
>I saw an add for it in "Threshold", the magazine of the Student Environmental
>Action Coalition (SEAC). It's described as a gathering of world artists,
>musicians, and organizations, and sounds amazing. There's places for camping
>and hotel accomadations, there're $20 concerts and free festivals, and it
>sounded like something for people from all walks of life. It's produced by
>Quetzacoatl Productions (I probably spelled that wrong) based in San Francisco
>(I think). I don't have the address but they'd probably know at seac@igc.org.
>I'm planning on going so see you there.
>             Peace -Andy

Just thought you all would be interested before you pack up your tents and 
drive cross-country.

If I happen across any other useful information I will post it.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 12:43:46 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 12:30:50 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Matthew Fox Meeting
Cc: sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Greetings Friends!

Sometime last week two local newspapers ran a story on Matthew Fox and the
"Rave Mass" he is planning. As I'm sure you noticed, the concept generated
a lively debate on the list covering ground from: how raving and
spirituality interact, to the potential ill effects of organized religion
on our culture, to the similarities between raving and established
religious practice--the gospel experience for example.

I was very intrigued by the idea. For me it was the third event in a three
pronged synchronicity that I experienced surrounding people discussing the
relation of raving to the more classically defined transcendant religious
experience. 

So I attempted to contact Matthew Fox to get a better grip on exactly what
he had in mind. One of his associates, Cliff Atkinson, contacted me. We
talked and he sketched for me a brief outline of both Matthew's ideas in
general and as they related to the "Rave Mass". My curiousity remained
piqued.

I asked him if he was aware of sfraves and that there was a lively
discussion underway regarding these ideas, suggesting that perhaps he
subscribe to the list and enter into the fray. Which he promptly did,
yesterday morning.

Since then many of us have responded vigorously, both publicly and
privately, to the points he made. Clearly the issues under discusion run
very deep.

Matthew and Cliff were, I think, very surprised and pleased by the volume
and the depth of the mail they received and would like the opportunity to
get together with us to meet each other, respond to our questions,
criticisms etc., and just generally hang out and exchange ideas. They have
asked me to coordinate a meeting for this Sunday afternoon, which I am
happy to do.

I think it's important to stop and state at this point that I neither
support nor dis-support what they have in mind. I don't know what they have
in mind. It's not an it yet. And, from what I understand, what 'it' becomes
will be the result of whatever common ground they and the bay area
house/raver community can find. But I'm going too far. Come and find out
for yourself.

Let me just add this one point: clearly they, like us, have realised that
music, dancing, the active particpatory celebration of life and relation
creates a transcendant experience and that community often falls out of
groups of people that share in the creation of transcendant experiences.
Make no mistake, I for one will *never* contribute to the cooption,
dogmatization, distortion or other such degradation of our scene, but from
what I can gather, they are here seeking our similarities rather than our
differences, as people in community we should do no less. 

So I urge you to take advantage of this remarkable opportunity to get
together and talk. And please, bring your absolutely positive energy; this,
like everything else, can you be anything you want it to be.

Please rsvp me by private email or call me at home (I go off-line on
weekends): 415.826.6137

take it easy
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 13:22:55 1994
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From: pandora@hulk.sfsu.edu (Candice)
Message-Id: <199404222016.NAA05733@hulk.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Splinter groups
To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (sfraves)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 13:15:59 -40962758 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <199404221432.HAA16902@mail.netcom.com> from "John S. Lee" at Apr 22, 94 07:32:21 am
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John S. Lee sez:
> 
> Just look at what has happened:  People only go out becuase of certain
> cliques that may be around.  People go only to hear DJ x,y, or Z.  People
> only go out if the party is done by a certain promoter, certain music,
> certain classification.  And Whaddaya get?  England ALL OVER AGAIN.  Posses
> and more posses.  Gang wars due to party alliances.  The list goes on.  The
> same thing is happening here (the rave community US stylee) and it's sad.
> The real issue here is that people have rally not noticed it at all.  And
> these little prejudices have crept into eevery aspect of what we call rave.
> 
I'm glad that this was brought up again.  I have a different outlook on the
issue though.  I don't feel that people are in general closing their minds 
down and becoming unwilling to try new things (although this of course does
happen) it seems to me that people are becoming more discriminating.
That through trying out different things they have found what it is
that makes them happy.  If I go to a restaurant and order something 
that I really like I'll go back for that particular item again or to try
something else believing that the restaurant is capable of making good food.
But if I go to eat someplace and have a bad experience with one menu
item I'll be hesitant to go back there for anything at all.  It really is
just a simple learning process.  Experiences of people that I know and
trust have an impact on my decisions also.  The cleaners really messed
up my friends clothes so now I won't take my clothes there.  I'm sure
that my analogy between rave and consumerism is not pleasing to
everyone but I think there is some truth here.  If a person has a great
experience with a DJ they will go to other events where this Dj will
be, etc.  It seems more like a decision making process than a clique.
If people are being exclusive that's a clique.  I really can't say
that I've experienced this too much (not saying that it's not happening,
just that it hasn't personally affected me).

These splinter groups may also just be part of an evolutionary process.
People always said "rave won't die it will just evolve"  Maybe that is
exactly what is happening.  The rave sub-culture is now breaking off into
new and different sub-cultures.  This may not be something to mourn, but
rather to celebrate and keep on moving forward.  Change is the only
constant.  Also, diversity doesn't necessarily mean a bunch of different
types of people doing the same thing.  It can also mean different types of
people doing different things with acceptance and respect for each others
tastes and prefferences.

Just a couple different perspectives...

Take care,
CC
-- 
Candice			pandora@hulk.sfsu.edu


    I'm nothing now, but I'm something compared to what I used to be.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 13:32:19 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 13:31:34 -0700
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        "Re: Launch Pad/Spiral Jive" (Apr 22,  1:53pm)
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	<9404221753.AA10874@pilot.njin.net>
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I've seen tag team DJing, at the DNA about a year and a half ago the
Hardkiss crew were doing that.  I think Jeno might have be in on it too.

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 13:38:31 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 13:30:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: vrave
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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i am just curious (as i have no statistics) that proportionally there are 
less sfravers on vrave than from any other region? go and chat with your 
fellow global raver....

telnet techno.stanford.edu 7283

...susie (:

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 13:42:32 1994
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From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404222042.NAA16149@well.sf.ca.us>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: tag-team djs
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


heard thomas & chris lum "tag-gig" at Pepper a few weeks ago.
If new slang is "you go,"  "they went."
alpha

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 14:42:04 1994
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Subject: Re: vrave
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 14:42:47 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404221314.J2344-0100000@sutro> from "Susan R. Kameny" at Apr 22, 94 01:30:01 pm
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Susan R. Kameny spake:
> 
> i am just curious (as i have no statistics) that proportionally there are 
> less sfravers on vrave than from any other region? go and chat with your 
> fellow global raver....
> 
> telnet techno.stanford.edu 7283
> 
> ...susie (:
> 

	It's my theory that we lucky folk in the sf area actually have
*raves* to attend, so we don't have time to vrave. (Of course I'm not
one to talk.. I'm a bum and haven't been to an event in *HOW* long?)
=)


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From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 14:57:12 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 17:31:38 -0400
To: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
From: will@panix.com (WILL-E)
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon Festival
Cc: mtnraves@xmission.com, ne-raves@umdd.umd.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu, uk-dance@tqmcomms.co.uk
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Laura wrote:
>Wired Magazine reported that Megatripolis from the UK was going to join up
>with the Rainbow Gathering to do a big event in the Grand Canyon.

I just got off the phone with one of the Megatripolis DJs, Darius.  He read
the article and says that while they are thinking about coming to the US,
the idea of hooking up with the Rainbow family was conjecture and was never
something definite due to lack of funds.  I was one of the fortunate people
who actually made it to the grand reopening of Megatripolis last October in
England.  Believe it when they say it's as good as it is!  I'm friends with
some of the DJs and organizers and plain ole partygoers who are involved
with Megatripolis.  Before I left England in November, they told me they
were coming to San Francisco in April to hook up with old time friends
Jeno, Garth and Markie who were part of the original "Tonka" replaced by
"SLACK," and now they're talking about possibly New York later this year.
Go figure.

>(1)  The Rainbow Gathering isn't going to be in the Grand Canyon this year.

Correct, the family are having their grand reunion in Wyoming this year.
Supposedly the Megatripolis people know it's not taking place there and
think that Wyoming is 60 miles away from the Grand Canyon.  *chuckle*
However "the turtles" also have a separate but small yearly gathering.
They are a splinter group who broke off from the family because basically
they wanted alcohol included in the festivities while the majority don't
etc.  This group I hear is more radical and their politics don't sound very
wholesome but this is all heresay anyway.  Judge for yourself.  I don't
know where they are meeting but I don't think it's in the Grand Canyon
either.

>(2)  Even if it were, the on-line Rainbow people aren't in to the idea of a
>        rave invading their space (ravers are welcome, so long as they leave
>        their generators and loud music at home).

Correct again, the family doesn't appreciate amplified music of any sort.
I don't know if "the turtles" would either so don't get your hopes up.  I
made this clear to my friend who didn't realize that the family are more
traditional hippies that don't embrace technology like they do.

and in reference to the article from alt.gathering.rainbow:
>>The Gathering which I know about in August at the Grand Canyon is called the
>>"World Unity festival and conference" and it's officially from Aug.22-28.

I don't think the Megatripolis people even know about this.  And this still
doesn't agree with the dates in the Wired article which several times
states August 1-15 as the dates.  It seems as this article has a bit of
disinformation.  I've never even heard the term "zippie" and I've been
friends with people that fit the definition off and on since 1990.

                      ___
 / /  /  /  /   /  _  __/
(_/__/  /  (__ (__  ___/



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 15:34:27 1994
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Subject: Re: Launch Pad/Spiral Jive
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From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 17:21:18 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 20:21:16 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404230021.AA25729@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: 1015 Folsom in the news: "SF Nightclub Wins Restraining Order"
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	A federal judge in San Francisco has issued a temporary order 
blocking San Francisco police from requiring a large gay night club 
south of Market Street  to close by 3:30 a.m.
	The owner of the club, 1015 Folsom, filed a federal civil rights 
suit against the city this week claiming that attempts to close the 
cabaret early violated First Amendment guarantees.
	Owner Ira Sandler claims he holds a city permit that allows him to 
keep the dance bar open until 6 a.m., like a dozen other after-hours 
clubs south of Market.  
	But in February, police ordered him to close by 3:30 a.m., citing 
permit conditions that Sandler claims he had removed after he took 
over the property in 1990.
	U.S. District Judge Eugene Lynch on Thursday granted Sandler's 
request for a temporary restraining order.
	But Deputy City Attorney Thomas Owen said the city will resist any 
attempt to make the order permanent.
	Owen said Sandler's permit still contains the 3:30 a.m. operating 
limit.
	According to Owen, police want to restrict the club's hours due to  
``significant problems with noise.''   

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 20:15:34 1994
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From: buehring@Sonoma.EDU
To: "sfraves@techno.stanford.edu"%MAILER.dnet@mvax.Sonoma.EDU
Subject: Re: Launch Pad/Spiral Jive
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

(sorry about that blank post)

>
>You know, something I'd like to see sometime is some tag-team DJing.
>Never seen it, but it sounds like fun (and sounds like fun to do,
>too).
>
>Sean

I saw Digs & Whoosh (from the DIY renegades in the UK) here in SF
a while back.  They tag-teamed it, each took a turntable and took
turns mixing in songs.  I saw them spin an excellent set at a FMR
last year.  Their set was pumping and they got into a thick
groove.  It was cool, one could cover and help the other if needed;
they seemed to be more relaxed and less presured than playing
alone.  
At another party (channeling i think) I saw whoosh pull off
the sketchiest save manuever.  Digs was attempting to match up his
next song and was having trouble due to poor monitors.  He must of
been stoned or something cause he didn't notice the record was about
to run out.  Whoosh was watching him and when the record was just about
over he reached over and picked up the needle (on beat) and dropped
it back in the middle of the record and somehow it landed on beat- 
and just sounded like a transform!  (This was pretty sketchy to do
over a such a large PA system).  Actually digs was so spaced out
he didn't even notice it and continued to match... the record was
about to run out again and whoosh picked up the needle and dropped
back again... this time it came down off beat and digs hadn't
noticed and he had just started to come in with his song- which
created a massive train wreck. so things can be tricky with two
people at the wheels!

Seeing digs & whoosh was inspiring.  A friend and I used to try
and tag-team it at parties in santa cruz.  Its a lot of fun, and
definitely takes some of the pressure off.  It can be hard though
to get into a coherent, deep groove.  You really have to follow each
other or the set can get very scattered.  But If you work together well,  
you can create a blazing set with variety.  Also it helps to play
with someone who has a similar style.

So I'm all for tag-teaming djs.  Hopefully we'll see some more soon.



James from santa cruz


hope to meet you all at Launch Pad sat :) !   
  


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 21:00:39 1994
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From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea of Sin)
Message-Id: <9404230403.AA03142@noc.usfca.edu>
Subject: Re: vrave
To: sameer@soda.berkeley.edu (Sameer)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 21:03:09 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Discoravers)
In-Reply-To: <m0puSzo-00010yC@infinity.hip.berkeley.edu> from "Sameer" at Apr 22, 94 02:42:47 pm
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Previously, Sameer said:
> Susan R. Kameny spake:
> > 
> > i am just curious (as i have no statistics) that proportionally there are 
> > less sfravers on vrave than from any other region? go and chat with your 
> > fellow global raver....
> 
> 	It's my theory that we lucky folk in the sf area actually have
> *raves* to attend, so we don't have time to vrave. (Of course I'm not
> one to talk.. I'm a bum and haven't been to an event in *HOW* long?)
> =)

I agree with Sameer. However the fact that majority of the sfraves group are
working professionals. Sometimes they don't have time to vrave, but then 
again there are some procrastinators out there who vrave while they work 
in another window. I am a student who likes to procrastinate in 
windows:). 

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sea Of Sin <kawakami@usfca.edu>		|"I've done ... questionable things. 
	   <seaofsin@well.sf.ca.us>     | Nothing the God of biomechanics 
  	   <and so on....>		| wouldn't let you into heaven for."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 21:05:55 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 21:05:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robin Roseanne Penfield <rrose@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: dead full moon sites
To: Sean Casey <csc@pilot.njin.net>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404182202.AA19212@pilot.njin.net>
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On Mon, 18 Apr 1994, Sean Casey wrote:

> It may just be a fact of life that when more than a certain number of
> people go to a site they're going to trash it. The question is: How do
> you fine tune a party like that so it doesn't get too big or stay too
> small?
> 
> There was a lot of garbage on the ground after the Organic GG park
> party. I cleaned up some, and noticed Bob doing the same. 
> I did it for the promoters, because they spent their money and their
> effort to throw that party. I did _not_ do it for the "good of rave";
> people should clean up their own mess, or, like me, not make one in
> the first place!
> 
> I wonder if people would act responsively if there were a _lot_ of
> garbage cans around? Ideas?
> 
> Sean

This is a good question Sean.  Although the fact that some raves leave a 
mess is not adequate excuse for the cops to bust them at will or simply 
prohibit them from ever taking place at a certain venue, clearly there is 
ample room for improvement on our side as well.

I think your suggestion of having garbage cans available is a good one.  
I also think you can accomplish wonders by giving people an incentive.  The 
WOMAD palooza/fest/schmorgasbord last summer in Golden Gate Park was attended 
by around 100,000 people who littered left and right, yet as I followed 
the crowd off the polo field at the end of the day the area was 
remarkably clean, thanks to an offer by Ben & Jerry's ice cream for a 
free treat coupon in exchange for a bag of trash on the way out (bags 
were provided on site).  Another way we can improve cleanup is by urging 
promoters to mention this on their voicemail messages for outdoor 
parties, and/or print it on the fliers.

Promoters can also communicate with ravers at the events to let them know 
this is a concern.  If people are made to feel it is their party also, 
they will generally care enough to not want to leave a mess.  

This is my first message to sfraves, and it seemed appropriate for Earth 
Day.  Happy Earth Day & Love & Smooches to Everyone!

                              *** Starchild ***



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 21:45:47 1994
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From: Robin Roseanne Penfield <rrose@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Bonny Doomed???
To: Brian Behlendorf <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Cc: Mark Guthrie <winston@lurnix.com>, grigsby@agames.com,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!internex.net!geoffw@uunet.uu.net
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In my opinion, this proposed letter to the cops/Santa Cruz authorities 
should include a reference to how much money they made off us ravers by 
giving out parking tickets.

In effect, you can almost say that the cops were the "promoters" of the 
large events that took place there.  They didn't put out fliers or line 
up DJs, and they *definitely* didn't do anything to help make the parties 
go down well, but they sure took in a nice cover charge, didn't they?

People may have parked illegally, but more to the point, were they in 
anyone's way, or engaged in reckless activity of any kind?  Maybe someone 
has more knowledge on the local angle on this.  Laws should have a 
purpose aside from raising more money for the government machine at our 
expense, and we should not be conceding this in my opinion.

Rave On,                  =)   *** Starchild ***



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 21:53:57 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 21:53:13 -0800
To: Dmitri Chtchourov <dchtcho@eis.calstate.edu>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: saeedi@netcom.com (Steve Saeedi)
Subject: Re: Hello everybody!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

On 1/13/94, you wrote:
>    Hi everybody!

Hi Dmitri,

> I came from Russia not a long time ago, and I will go to college here
> in US ( in Chico ). I love rave and if anybody have any questions about
> Russia, I would love to try to answer them.

So, how do you like the US now that you have a chance to spend more time
here?  Have you also had an opportunity to attend any of the local SF
parties here yet?

>   I just thought I could be useful!

Thanks,

> Peace,
>           Dmitri.

- Steve



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 22 23:19:52 1994
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From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Message-Id: <199404230621.XAA16477@mail.netcom.com>
Subject: Launch Pad & Spiral Jive Together
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 23:21:07 -0700 (PDT)
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Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and expressions.  The universal
groove was to go for it.  And, we've gone for it...Lanch Pad and Spiral
Jive will be kicking it off tomorrow night at a nifty place.  Give the
Liquid Air line a jingle tomorrow night for the final arrangements:
415.487.8497.  
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@netcom.com-----
"We have a problem. Too many of you know who we are."  AMI
Semiconductor ad copy

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 10:19:45 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404231717.KAA11239@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: A rumor
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Rumor has it that WICKED has be "cleared" to
play at the Earth Day Festival in Bay Meadows.

They just had a killer party last night so I don't
know if they will actually get it together in time but
be on the look-out.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 13:24:48 1994
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <9404231324.ZM23553@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 13:24:49 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Out for a Spin on a Rainy Saturday
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I'll be DJing this afternoon at Ameba on Haight St., starting around
3 pm.  Stop in and say hi if you're in the neighborhood!

phred

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 13:30:41 1994
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Subject: rain.
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 13:30:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sameer <sameer@soda.berkeley.edu>
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	Think it'll stop before tonight? eeps.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 13:57:19 1994
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From: stevec@violet.berkeley.edu (Steve Collins)
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Subject: re: rain
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 13:57:19 -0700 (PDT)
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> Subject: San Francisco Bay Area Forecast
> 
> SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA FORECAST  
> NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SAN FRANCISCO CA  
> 930 AM PDT SAT APR 23 1994 ...DO NOT USE AFTER 330 PM SATURDAY  
>   
> .TODAY...RAIN THIS MORNING. AFTERNOON SHOWERS WITH A CHANCE OF  
> THUNDERSTORMS. HIGHS MID 50S TO MID 60S. SOUTH-SOUTHWEST WIND  
> TO 20 MPH.  
> .TONIGHT...SHOWERS LIKELY. A CHANCE OF EVENING THUNDERSTORMS.  
> LOWS MID 40S TO LOWER 50S. WEST WIND 15 TO 25 MPH.  
>   
> .PROBABILITY OF MEASURABLE PRECIPITATION TONIGHT, 60 PERCENT.  
>   

uh oh...is there a plan B?  'nother location?  'nother rave?  hmmm,
have to think about this...

stevie "yes, i _am_ going out tonight, don't look so surprised"
collins.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 14:30:32 1994
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From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: fair weather ravers ;)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


I was wondering if anyone could post about whether
Launch Pad has actually been combined with Spiral Jive?
I am not clear on this.

And will it be outside rain or (moon) shine?
Not to suggest that the rain would be all bad - I was just wondering.

Dave


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 14:51:06 1994
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From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404232151.AA11105@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Re: fair weather ravers ;)
To: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 94 14:51:01 PDT
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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> I was wondering if anyone could post about whether
> Launch Pad has actually been combined with Spiral Jive?

Yes

> And will it be outside rain or (moon) shine?

I doubt that they'll do it if it's raining.  Call the 
Liquid Air # just incase.  The rain has stopped asof
2:45pm.  I'm sure that it will go on even if there's
the threat of rain.  Ethan & Bryce are real troopers.

Lee

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 15:56:32 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404232256.PAA03448@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: allen,michael,phred
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group posting is cool,

heh, heh

:0

lets rave at fry's electronics.

phred,allen,michael


From bbehlen  Sat Apr 23 16:39:03 1994
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From: bbehlen@techno.Stanford.EDU (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 16:38:56 PDT
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

(one or two of these are old - sorry about that.  Remember to mail to
sfraves@techno.stanford.edu, not sfraves-owner@techno.stanford.edu.)

--- Forwarded mail from Sheri Hendrickson <sherih@kitchen.mcad.edu>

>From sherih@kitchen.mcad.edu Thu Apr 14 14:01:42 1994
From: Sheri Hendrickson <sherih@kitchen.mcad.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 16:05:01 -0500
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To: Sun Kim <sunkim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>, sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Position Paper
Cc: sherih@kitchen.mcad.edu
Status: OR

Sun Kim asks,
"I will be writing a position paper on the 'rave' scene.... I'm  
having a really hard time trying to find references for my paper.   
Can anyone tell me of any references that I could use?"

	Okay, I am usually quiet on the sfraves net since I live the  
Midwest but here I go. Books will be obsolute on this new and  
underground subject matter. Here are some better sources.

1. MAGAZINE ARTICLES. Look in the periodicals in the library for the  
subjects of "techno" and "raves." I guarantee you'll find something.  
As you know, the current Rolling Stones did an article on the Bay  
area's scene. Some other mags that had a couple of pages on the "rave  
scene" are Newsweek, Time, Sassy, and etc. But these articles are  
sort of cheezy and candy-coated. Nothing really in depth except a  
report on a bunch of kids dancing to a special kind of music.

2. RAVE ZINES. Big zines like Urb, Slurp, and Reactor are a start. I  
know I can hook you up with some really underground Midwest zines. (I  
happen to do one myself). There are a ton of them here. One zine,  
Massive, is a compilation of zines. * One thing about Reactor, it  
hypes about what a super ravey scene Chicago has. It's sort of dead  
there. Most of the Chicago ravers go to Minneapolis or Wisconsin for  
the parties. Also, Reactor did an interview with cheezy Hi-NRG band,  
Pyskosonik, of Minneapolis. (I'm so embarrassed that these pretty  
pin-up boys live in the same town as I do). Reactor was suppose to  
interview Drop Bass Recording artist, DJ ESP Woody McBride (Earthworm  
Sings, Amplification '94, There's No Such Thing as Bad Acid, etc)  
instead of those Pyskos. Woody is a better representation and more  
respectable music maker and dj of Minneapolis.

3. INTERVIEWS. (You're best option.) Talk to promoters, djs, zines,  
and ravers themselves. They can fill you in a lot of info. However,  
promoters might be cautious on talking to you unless you them  
personally. They might think you are a narc. Just reassure them you  
aren't. Call up a promoter's voicemail to set-up an appointment to  
talk to them. (At their own party when they are running around to see  
if everything is going okay, is a bad time).

I hope this can help you.


Sincerely,
HKK
expositor 


--- End of forwarded message from Sheri Hendrickson <sherih@kitchen.mcad.edu>

--- Forwarded mail from Matthew Michael Jones <mmj@wam.umd.edu>

>From mmj@wam.umd.edu Sat Apr 16 10:34:50 1994
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 13:34:18 -0400
From: Matthew Michael Jones <mmj@wam.umd.edu>
Message-Id: <199404161734.AA12780@rac1.wam.umd.edu>
To: SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Rave in the Nave


Hi, I'm from England and I remember this happening about a year ago, or maybe it
was longer. Anyway, in the UK we all decided it was another pathetic attempt by
the established church to reach the next generation seeing as they already have
almost complete control of the last generation.

Personaly I don't think anyone should go to a Rave which is held by anyyone from
the church, as has already been said Christian and Rave don't go together, they
never have and they never will. The truth is that if Rave has to be associated 
with any religion it would be Shamanism. And if Christianity is further away
from any religion it would be Shamanism.

Me, I am mostly against all religions which limit a person or tries to control
society. I believe in the power of my mind and that a human being can do
anything if he knows how to use his/her mind. That's why I believe in the power
of the Rave as not just a place where people dance and do drugs but as a whole
ideal, even a religion in its own right.

			just thought I'd tell you,

					Matt.....





--- End of forwarded message from Matthew Michael Jones <mmj@wam.umd.edu>


>From mode@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu  Thu Apr 21 21:37:40 1994
Subject: Re: Audium
To: sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu (Sami Khoury)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 23:37:43 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404211648.C11302-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu> from "Sami Khoury" at Apr 21, 94 04:02:38 pm
From: modE@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu

Sami Khoury III writes:

:A while back there was a thread concerning this place.  Anybody ever go?  
:Critiques?

i was there. i wasnt very impressed, however the old man that runs the
place (it was his idea) is very nice. you walk down this dark hall turning
a bunch of corners and enter a circular room with 20 or so chairs. the 
parameter of the room is lined with lights that slowly fade to complete
blackness. the music starts (analogue beeps and tones, no samples, NOT
digital) and persists for something like 2 hours with a break. it was a tape
recording including lots of hiss. i think he was actually playing and
overlaping tape loops live. there were 300 some speakers in the room, around,
under and above you. dont expect the sounds to moving all over the place
(this was disappointing). he got some federal grant to construct the thing.
he wants to create a digital version of the audium, but he cant get the
funding.

dan.			
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
modE@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


--- End of forwarded message from sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 17:12:34 1994
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Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 17:12:30 -0700
From: ubu Carasik <ubu@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199404240012.RAA20293@elaine23.Stanford.EDU>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Liquid Air cancelled
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

As of 3:15 pm, the Liquid Air phone line says it'
s  postponed to the 21st of May.  Sorry to hear that.
Anybody got backup ideas for tonite?

Bob

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 17:29:00 1994
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Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 17:22:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: THE Mike <ez040312@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Sac. Tonite...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Is there anyone going to Contact tonite? I *NEED* directions. 

And if there are going to be any sfr'ers there, I'd like to meet them. My 
email address is masolis@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
and my phone number is 916/754.2426. Give me a call and leave a message 
on my "disco answering machine" if I'm not home. Thanks a mill.

Mike	<masolis@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
	<hula@deeptht.armory.com>

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 18:17:24 1994
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From: Sun Kim <sunkim@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Liquid Air cancelled
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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On Sat, 23 Apr 1994, ubu Carasik wrote:

> As of 3:15 pm, the Liquid Air phone line says it'
> s  postponed to the 21st of May.  Sorry to hear that.
> Anybody got backup ideas for tonite?

There's always Organic (520 4th St @ Bryant) and Universal Groove.  I 
found from a friend of mine about Funky S.F.  Don't know the location, 
but here is the info:

Simon * Garth * Thomas * Markie * Carlos * Joe Harp
415.267.7623 for location later on tonight.

I was looking forward to Launch Pad.. :(


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 19:00:47 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
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To: csc@pilot.njin.net
Subject: Re: 1015 Folsom in the news: "SF Nightclub Wins Restraining Order"
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU




Thanks Sean for this post, It save my ass last night at Wicked!
Details later.

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 19:43:29 1994
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Subject: Raving or Naving: a choice?
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 19:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <199404220224.TAA06426@well.sf.ca.us> from "Randy Tinkerman" at Apr 21, 94 07:24:06 pm
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	After considering the long spiel containing some of Matthew Fox's
beliefs, I found the source of my discontent in cognitive dissonance.

	Fox's message is contradictory at best and deceitful at worst.
Either he doesn't believe at all in Christianity and is trying to
reach a wider audience by calling himself a priest of their cult, or
he's trying to bring those rebellious young'uns back into the fold
through gradual indoctrination, or possibly both.

	Anyone seduced by his images will eventually be confronted by
a basic dilemma, to wit: "If we are all God, then what makes Christ
special?  Why would he die for the sins of those equal to he?
Furthermore, why should I, as God, give a shit anyway?  For if I am
God, there can be none sitting in judgement above me, and I should
fear no judgement but my own."

	At some point, we all have to make a choice: do you believe in
the Cosmic Patriarchy, or do you believe in being a master without slaves?
Do you act according to the rules of the Cosmic Patriarchy in hopes of
getting a gold sticker by your name in the Book of Life, or do you make
your own decisions and accept the joy (and pain) of their consequences?
Is your life based on the fear of reprisal or the joy of existence?

"Give up on life after birth
 for life after death?
 It's a hard choice.
 Don't blow it."
		-Sperry

"The fence is not a comfortable seat." -me

// g

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 20:42:08 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404240342.UAA29266@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Spiral Jive
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Spiral Jive is in the park somewhere,
Phred may spin, Bog, Dave also,
415.281.8405

I post when I am asked to

salutations, allen@ameba

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 23 21:33:44 1994
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From: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
Message-Id: <199404240435.VAA02696@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: i'll be @ organic
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


	c-ya there


From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 24 11:22:39 1994
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From: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu (Sea of Sin)
Message-Id: <9404241825.AA15539@noc.usfca.edu>
Subject: the cost of having fun
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (Discoravers)
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Well the attempt to go to Organic was ill-fated. What ever happened to nice
cheap events at the Troc?  I didn't think that the Organic crew would 
charge more than $10 for a rave. I was wrong. The price was $20. That is 
way too much for me these days. I don't think it is worth it attend these 
events. I understand it is to cover costs and all, but still i see it as 
a capitalistic ploy to suck the money out of young people (there were a 
lot of young people there) who want to have a good time. Commercialism +
Capitalism = means for profit. People could of had a better time  for 
free at Sprial Jive in the park. Even though it was cold, and 
there wasnt any big name DJs, it was nice. (yes, it was VERY cold :)).
Underground small parties are the only way to go these days. 

I am not completely ripping on the Organic people, I know they have good 
intentions and they also do free events, just they should consider other 
optional costs of an entrance fee. I know that if the group I was with 
(5 people) went in they would have made a hundred dollars, instead they 
lost it. c'est la vie.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sea Of Sin <kawakami@usfca.edu>		|"I've done ... questionable things. 
	   <seaofsin@well.sf.ca.us>     | Nothing the God of biomechanics 
  	   <and so on....>		| wouldn't let you into heaven for."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 24 11:45:10 1994
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Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 11:45:09 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404241845.LAA17515@well.sf.ca.us>
To: kawakami@noc.usfca.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re:  the cost of having fun
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

RE:  Organic

Just because promoters do "free" events doesn't mean they're free to the
people who go to the commercial events.  If someone charges $20 for a $15
event (to cover the expenses of their "free" party) then the party is only
free for those who don't show up at the paid event, while the paying
regulars pay for the free party.  It's called getting you audience to pay
for your advertising.

Parties should be judged on the quality of sound, lights and space per
dollar, w/ a nod to quality fo DJs.   ?-)   maybe there should be a vibe
fadctor as well  ?-)

peach

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 24 11:47:31 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404241845.LAA16616@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: "Rave" Not an Effective (or Meaningful) Counter-Culture Movement
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


This statement was posted to the anarchy-list
(anarchy-list@cwi.nl) in response to my response
on his list of "Youth Movements over the last 100
years".  I sited "The Acid House Movement" as the 
latest version in this tradition which includes

the Dadaist in Germany, 
the beat movement and the
hippie "movement.  
This person sites punk as the 
phase culminating in the riot grrrls.

I sent him a copy of "CyberTribe Rising" and told him
this was my view a year ago and it has changed somewhat
since then.

Here is his replay,
if you want to correspond with me off-line thats OK 
(I know some people would like to talk about the
quality of parties then this heave stuff) but if you don't
want to discuss this on the main list, it OK with me.

I am composing a response to this and intend to publish it on May 1
(The anaversary of the last one :).  The last umt communication
was a collaboration of 3 people (including myself).  I would
welcome dialog and feedback from anyone who has comments on the 
political nature of the Scene (if any) or the previous documents
or what-ever.  I will be setting up a WWW home page to make
this a little easier, stay tuned.






----- Begin Included Message -----

>From jamal@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sun Apr 24 10:00:03 1994
Return-Path: <jamal@gnu.ai.mit.edu>
From: jamal@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jamal Hannah)
Subject: "Rave" Not an Effective (or Meaningful) Counter-Culture Movement
To: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 94 12:59:17 WET DST
Cc: anarchy-list@cwi.nl (Anarchy List)
Organization: Planet Earth
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Content-Length: 3356
X-Lines: 59
Status: RO

Well, I read over the Rave response, and the "Cybertribe" essay.
I cant say that, from this perspective, "Rave" has much to
do with counterculture, at least effectivly,
because it's primarily hedonistic in nature.. youre also relying on
technology that's been created by a system that was oppresive to begin with.
Granted, you can use it as you wish, but being dependant on it, but not
the _owner_ of it's means of production (the computer companies,
the record label companies, etc), means basicly relying too much
on something one is fighting against.   Hakim Bey's "Temporary Autonomous
Zone" was a cute way to make what a bunch of well-to-do college kids
had the ability to do anyway (chat with computers, go to rave
parties, etc) and made it seem somehow political.
But a "rave" culture is far to dependant on the very forces that
caused the problems they are fighting against.

All of the other countercultures I mentioned, with the exception of
the Riot Grrrls, seriously consider the role of the working class
vs. the ruling class.  And Riot Grrrls at least realize that the one
with the power over them they are fighting against is the _male_.

Going to a "Rave", dressing up wild, and taking drugs is a way to
have fun for some, perhaps.. but the notion that because everyone is
dancing together means some fundimental racial or class barriers have been
broken all over the world, is just plain wrong.  It's just another party,
really.  If the event encourages people, through some form of propaganda,
to do activism which encourages and stimulates people to commit themselves
to actions and organization which effect real _change_ instead of simply
hanging out together in one's own "autonomous zone", it could be
dewscribed as political, but the "rave" or "house party" in itself
is not what is progressive, or specificly "counter" to a system of
oppression.

Since a "Rave" party is intended to be as intense and flashy as possible,
it's easy enough for some rich entripeneur to throw the party themselves,
and reap the profits, by possesing a huge, flashy technological setup
that will "blow peoples minds".

Dancing in a rave is like masterbation:  ok, so you liberated yourself
from your own inhibitions against doing it, fine.. but, does it really change
the dominating relationship of Capitalists towards working people?  Hardly!
If anything, the system simply re-adjusts, and opens "official" rave-party
locations.

Rave does not put a progressive philosophy first and formost, as it's
central structure.  You couldnt be closely associated with the other
movements without being political yourself.   The real Hippies
were not the peopel who dressed up in bellbottoms, etc. Thsoe wernt the
peopel I was talking about.  The people who _activly sought_ ways to
undermine or abandon Capitalism and Industrialization altogether were
the real hippies, but at the time of intense crisis, they seemed
Godlike in their ability to stand up for what was right, which made them
"hip" and popular, and widely imitatable.

I know it seems like a big "killjoy" to say that youre just not being
revolutionary when you're partying... sorry.  No one is going to stop you
from doing it, but is it gonna help feed the starving?  Fight oppression?
Stop people from being exploted by corporations in Columbia?  Nope.

 - Jamal Hannah  <jamal@gnu.ai.mit.edu>


----- End Included Message -----




----- End Included Message -----


From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 24 11:59:23 1994
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Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 12:00:42 -0700
From: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
Message-Id: <199404241900.MAA09044@mail.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: $20!!!!????
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



	$20 allows you to manufacture 10 compact discs w/
	jewel cases.

	$20 gets two people a meal at the Felafel place on
	16th/Valencia.

	$20 gets you an import CD of music you like that you'll have
	forever.

	I was floored to have someone at a nightclub tell me that
	it costs $20 come inside. I just couldn't believe it. It reminded
	me of when someone asked me for the same amount of money to see
	X play in 1987 or so. 

	The Aphex Twin/Orbital/Vaporspace show wasn't $20 and these
	guys came from far away to play here and their lights and sound
	were amazing.

	I don't care if they have free parties in the park. SFraves puts
	on parties at the park and never charges a dime for anything.

	Owning a soundsystem for use outdoors is expensive but completely
	obtainable and there is no reason to try and justify one act
	with charging $20 at a NIGHTCLUB.

	The guy at the door said "its $20. Its Organic".

	So we went to Spiral Jive in the park and it was awesome.
	Gorgeous weather. Great sound/music. And some guy brought a 
	gorgeous Great Dane that I got to play with.

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 24 13:56:51 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404242058.NAA19835@netcom10.netcom.com>
Subject: British Jesus Ravers ID'd
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 13:58:07 -0700 (PDT)
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Hello - Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com here ...
 For those of you who can't access Internet newsgroups , there was a 
recent reply to my request to identify the British ravers who will be
coming to the SF Bay area to help Mathew Fox with his Christian Rave
events:
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
From: R.J.Green-SE1@cs.bham.ac.uk (Robin J Green)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: Xtain "raving" comes to SF
Date: 22 Apr 1994 10:20:27 GMT

Larry Ching <larryc@netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>  A contingent of these radical, electronic Christians will 
>soon come to San Francisco to establish an independent "base community" 
>with the prospect that Grace will help them find a home for their Masses 
>in the Bay Area. <<<<<<<<<<<<!!!! 

Cool. You'll be getting the NOS (Nine O'Clock Service) experience then,
chaps.

[ stuff deleted from Robin Green's reply ...]

>From his new home, Fox will pursue  
>his latest project: working with the young Britons from a depressed 
>industrial town outside Manchester, England. Each Sunday, 600 of them meet 
>for Mass in the darkened basement of a sports complex.  

What, you mean Sheffield?

>---------------------------
>
> So , who are these British blue-collar Anglican radical electronic
>Christians?????

It's the NOS collective, the Sheffield based Praise-Rave merchants. Not
quite as mysterious as they sound, really, they're nice people.

- Robin Green.

------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 24 17:01:30 1994
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From: THE Mike <ez040312@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: My first...?
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This may be long, I don't know right now, so you might want to save this 
for later.

I don't know, but have the people in the "scene" changed? I went to 
Contact in Sac. last night and it was fun and all, but there were not 
many people dancing for any amount of time.  There seemed to be people 
from the Mexican Mafia (no, not really, but just the stereotypical look 
of that particular group of people--don't flame me, this isn't racist, 
I'm Mexican too.) 

It's really hard to go out and dance when you're a big guy like me when 
almost everyone else is sitting/standing around looking at you. Maybe the 
Sacramento scene isn't as close and friendly as it was back in SLO. I 
don't know, except that Contact was my first technoey/housey club that 
I've gone to since I moved here in August, LAST YEAR!

Now,  enough of the griping.  Contact was held in a small cafe type 
place. The dance floor was good enough for the amount of people that were 
there. One thing though, the visual stand (or whatever it's called) sort 
of was just there in the middle and it chopped about 1/3 of the dance 
floor off.  It was difficult to dance around it too because I'm very 
conscious of other people's stuff and I didn't want to hit it or 
anything, causing things to break.

The visuals were cool. That's about as much as I can say about it. They 
had projections of hindu god sculptures and people running after a car, 
all the time with different color gels sweeping across them.  

The music was really good. Some of it I'd even heard before. (I love 
singing along with the music--especially when others can't hear me above 
the speakers.) The house music got a little old with the 
thump-thump-thump always being around the same bpm.

As for the security and such, they were very nice about some things. In's 
and out's were allowed, they didn't check my backpack (although that 
could be dangerous around Oak Park and such--if the rumors are true of 
what I've heard about it, including some stories from a resident that I'm 
friends with.)  You could bring in your own water, and I had brought in 
some Gatoraid, which got warm, and the bartender even put ice in it for 
me! He really was a nice guy. Water was free, but I think that it should 
have been served in plastic cups instead of glass. Glass can be pretty 
dangerous you know? :)  They had beer and such for the 21+ crowd--the 
crowd that I'm not a member of yet....They had candy sales: blow pops, 
and others, I thought that was pretty groovin'.

Alll in all, I think that with some more variety in the music styles and 
more promotion, that place can go off pretty well, considering Sacramento 
has it in them.

Check it out, if you can.

Mike	<masolis@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>    >thE musiC oF choicE<
	<hula@deeptht.armory.com>       >iS iN thE voicE<

From sfraves-owner  Sun Apr 24 23:21:11 1994
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Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 23:21:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robin Roseanne Penfield <rrose@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: In The Light
To: ethan miller <nrg@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404200156.SAA09436@mail.netcom.com>
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On Tue, 19 Apr 1994, ethan miller wrote:

> Long before I had a sound system or thought of being a dj I used to go out
> to parties every week and bring a table, a blacklight and neon body paints.
> I never met a promoter that wouldn't let me in free. I'd set up the paints,
> hang out while it was still early, meet people, talk, joke, help out etc.
> After a while I'd leave the paints and go dance. Every once and a while I'd
> come back and clean up a little, refill the paint saucers and then go dance
> some more. People loved the paints. I remember at the first Imagination at
> Townsend/King St. I came back at 6am and these two people who were just
> *lit* had been sitting there for hours painting each other. They both had
> full-body, neon tribal work of astonishing complexity. Wow.
> 
> I remember knowing then, quite clearly, that my *active* particapatory
> positive energy was an absolutely essential ingredient in any party I
> happened to be at, that a good party was something we all had to build
> together, that *any* party could be a great one if everyone there took
> responsibility for making it one. Nobody dances until someone dances. Faces
> are mail reflectors; smile and the world smiles with you.
> 
> I think I'm only recently realising that I got bored of 'consuming' raves a
> long time ago. I think I started throwing parties, doing sound, dj-ing,
> etc. because it *ensured*, for me, a particpatory experience. And, in
> truth, I have the best times at the small (often *very* small;) parties
> that we do together.
> 
> sfraves is something very, very special. I won't try and define it. We all
> love it for our very own and exactly the same reasons. It is a community,
> it gives meaning.
> 
> In The Light is yet another chance for us to do it our way, to make it mean
> something. May 28th lets get *together* and put a sonic dent in the fucking
> universe. 
> 
> (That's the cool thing about sound you know, it just keeps on goin.)

Dear sfravefriends,
     Ethan's message is so right-on!  I'm replying here partly so 
everyone who maybe skimmed over it will get a chance to take a second 
look and really think about what he's saying...
     I'm sure everyone has heard this before, but building positive 
energy is what it's all about, and it is frighteningly easy to lapse back 
into a mode of being where we are not truly spreading joy at parties, 
where we are inhibited and afraid to be too nonconformist, reluctant to 
let go and be as happy as we can be.
     Whatever talents you have, whatever you can bring to the raves you 
attend, do it!  Don't be inhibited by others lack of creativity -- your 
efforts will inspire them, and build a better scene for us all.
     Peace, Love & Strawberry Lollipops,
 
                            *** Starchild! ***



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 02:17:34 1994
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From: tazzleberry <tess@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Reply-To: tazzleberry <tess@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: British Jesus Ravers ID'd
To: Larry Ching <larryc@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404242058.NAA19835@netcom10.netcom.com>
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planet 6 sound 


On Sun, 24 Apr 1994, Larry Ching wrote:

> Hello - Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com here ...
>  For those of you who can't access Internet newsgroups , there was a 
> recent reply to my request to identify the British ravers who will be
> coming to the SF Bay area to help Mathew Fox with his Christian Rave
> events:
> ------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------
> From: R.J.Green-SE1@cs.bham.ac.uk (Robin J Green)
> Newsgroups: alt.rave
> Subject: Re: Xtain "raving" comes to SF
> Date: 22 Apr 1994 10:20:27 GMT
> 
> Larry Ching <larryc@netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>  A contingent of these radical, electronic Christians will 
> >soon come to San Francisco to establish an independent "base community" 
> >with the prospect that Grace will help them find a home for their Masses 
> >in the Bay Area. <<<<<<<<<<<<!!!! 
> 
> Cool. You'll be getting the NOS (Nine O'Clock Service) experience then,
> chaps.
> 
> [ stuff deleted from Robin Green's reply ...]
> 
> >From his new home, Fox will pursue  
> >his latest project: working with the young Britons from a depressed 
> >industrial town outside Manchester, England. Each Sunday, 600 of them meet 
> >for Mass in the darkened basement of a sports complex.  
> 
> What, you mean Sheffield?
> 
> >---------------------------
> >
> > So , who are these British blue-collar Anglican radical electronic
> >Christians?????
> 
> It's the NOS collective, the Sheffield based Praise-Rave merchants. Not
> quite as mysterious as they sound, really, they're nice people.
> 
> - Robin Green.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
re "christian ravers" ... AKA the "jesus army" ?  Come on, we all know what 
the score is, regurgitated religion already. I mean 2000 years of 
oppressive mentalies ain`t enough for you, so now you got to `infiltrate` 
dance music and the cultute it spawns? Yes I do say "infiltrate", because 
thats exactly what it is, classic tactics though, subdue the anarchist 
pagan earth cults by adopting their customs dressed down for the 
spiritually illiterate and then claim all those nasty ravers are spoiling 
it for the rest of us by taking drugs, playing to loud, having parties 
without `proper authorisation`, acting heathen already...pretty soon we 
all be dancing to the tune of that patriarchal capatilist bullshit, you 
know the "love your father, cause if you don`t  he`ll whomp you with his 
mighty sword already" (and as people living in the post fruedian age we 
can all take a stab as to what `sword` symbolically represents. We need 
christian ravers like Rodney King needs police protection.  The whole 
point of taking drugs (and, yes therein potentially fucking our heads 
up), dancing all night (yes it is so short term, but I gotta wake up to 
the sanitised denatured husk of an environment thats been left to us by 
the concept of "man" as gods "central" creation) and listening to devil 
mucic real loud, and then maybe I can obliterate the conditioned me that 
has been brought up to think that I have to be thankful for my existance 
to those who claim they have the ear and the voice of god.  Christian 
beebop...pah. > > 

               THREE (Club Dog UK)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 04:46:55 1994
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From: Tanya Smith <tmsmith@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: Raving or Naving: a choice?
To: JUMP IN THE FIRE <grigsby@agames.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404240243.AA02411@agames.agames.com>
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On Sat, 23 Apr 1994, JUMP IN THE FIRE wrote:

> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 19:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: JUMP IN THE FIRE <grigsby@agames.com>
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Raving or Naving: a choice?
> 
> 
> 	After considering the long spiel containing some of Matthew Fox's
> beliefs, I found the source of my discontent in cognitive dissonance.
> 
> 	Fox's message is contradictory at best and deceitful at worst.
> Either he doesn't believe at all in Christianity and is trying to
> reach a wider audience by calling himself a priest of their cult, or
> he's trying to bring those rebellious young'uns back into the fold
> through gradual indoctrination, or possibly both.
> 
> 	Anyone seduced by his images will eventually be confronted by
> a basic dilemma, to wit: "If we are all God, then what makes Christ
> special?  Why would he die for the sins of those equal to he?
> Furthermore, why should I, as God, give a shit anyway?  For if I am
> God, there can be none sitting in judgement above me, and I should
> fear no judgement but my own."

Although I don't endorse Matthew Fox's theology--there is something about 
him and it that doesn't sit right with me, call it intuition--his 
apparent statement that "we are all God" is not necessarily irreconcilable 
with the statement that Christ is the son of God.  According to the 
Bible, once someone is born again he or she is instilled with the Holy 
Spirit.  This spirit is part of the trinity--God in man, as opposed to 
Jesus, who was God as man.  Consequently, we are a part of God, but we 
are not God per se.


> 
> 	At some point, we all have to make a choice: do you believe in
> the Cosmic Patriarchy, or do you believe in being a master without slaves?
> Do you act according to the rules of the Cosmic Patriarchy in hopes of
> getting a gold sticker by your name in the Book of Life, or do you make
> your own decisions and accept the joy (and pain) of their consequences?
> Is your life based on the fear of reprisal or the joy of existence?
> 
> "Give up on life after birth
>  for life after death?
>  It's a hard choice.
>  Don't blow it."
> 		-Sperry
> 
> "The fence is not a comfortable seat." -me
> 
> // g
> 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 08:39:29 1994
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From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Radio Show
Newsgroups: alt.rave
In-Reply-To: <2pflkj$j7v@panix.com>
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Cc: 
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

In article <2pflkj$j7v@panix.com> Adam Curry writes:
>My name is Adam Curry, and I run mtv.com on the net.
>I currently host and oproduce a radio show for Holland, and I'm looking
>to syndicate it here in the states. Ofcourse most stations are waaay
>to conservative to want to take the "risk" of playing rave-techno-hardcore-
>trance-progressive dance music.
>
>Alot of the traxx we play are promos, and haven't seen the light of day 
>anywhere...but they are all major talent! This show is kick ass, and
>I think that there's quite an audience out there for it.
>
>My DJ on the show (regular) is Ronald Molendijk from Basic Beat Records
>in Rotterdam.
>
>What IO';m looking for is station call letters so that I can start sending
>out demos to them. Even if you *think* that your local station might
>play the show, anything here helps. I'm also plannign on adding an etire
>section to mtv.com dedicated to this type of music, with interviews
>with DJ's and samples of the hottest new traxx, not to mention the RAVE
>announcements. 
>
>ANy and all help is greatly appreciated. You may reply to this post, or send 
>mail to adam@mtv.com
>
>
>Keep The Vibe Alive!
>
>Adam
>
>



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 08:53:25 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404251551.IAA17771@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
Subject: Re: Radio Show
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Uh-oh, here we go folks...



> >
> >What IO';m looking for is station call letters so that I can start sending
> >out demos to them. Even if you *think* that your local station might
> >play the show, anything here helps. I'm also plannign on adding an etire
> >section to mtv.com dedicated to this type of music, with interviews
> >with DJ's and samples of the hottest new traxx, not to mention the RAVE
> >announcements. 
> >
> >ANy and all help is greatly appreciated. You may reply to this post, or send 
> >mail to adam@mtv.com
> >
> >
> >Keep The Vibe Alive!
> >
> >Adam
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 09:55:14 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 09:54:55 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404251654.JAA20871@well.sf.ca.us>
To: grigsby@agames.com, tmsmith@gibbs.oit.unc.edu
Subject: Re: Raving or Naving: a choice?
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>According to the 
Bible, once someone is born again he or she is instilled with the Holy 
Spirit.  This spirit is part of the trinity--God in man, as opposed to 
Jesus, who was God as man.  Consequently, we are a part of God, but we 
are not God per se.

	"I'm God.  Not THE god, just a God."
			---bill murray the groundhog

Fox in the henhouse, xtian raves, bah!
read everything, keep your eyes & ears open wider than ever,
win your own peace/initiation.

there
s never too much love.
alpha

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 09:55:55 1994
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From: ellisd@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
Message-Id: <9404251253.tn06219@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 12:53:05 EDT
Subject: TX Parties
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hi again.  Well here is an update to TX parties or RAVES.  A lot of response
from my first posting on many different areas from the NET.  Sooo.  I suppose
I may make this a habit if interest keeps up.  Good habit I think! He!
Anyhouse, I am pretty linked on parties and if people would like to know
about happenings here in the Midwest lemme know, especially ST. Louis,
Chicago, Milwaukie, and Detroit.
Heres my update:

_________________________________________________
Dallas - April 23rd - Hazy Daze & Groove Kitchen (SF) with DJs Ernie Munson -
John Howard - Darkhorse (SF) - Robert Taylor - Cle - and Rob Vaughan
INFO 214-522-4674 or 214-682-9022

This party was *(#@_ great!!! About 1,000 people, it was held on a ranch
outside of Dallas.  The sound was great, and Ernie Munsen (SF) John Howard
(SF) kicked hard.  Wow!  First time to hear them and it won't be the last. 
These boys have gotta come back!
________________________________________________
DALLAS - April 30 - GROOVE - (this is a party I'm having so It will
definately kick! He!)
Genesis P. Orridge will be DJing (SF) along with Robert Taylor of Good Vibe
Tribe - Rob Vaughan - A1 of Nasa Project - Steve Morton - Intox from OKC -
JaJo from St. Louis. Outside at the CompleX 10-10 (no earlier! but maybe
later!)  Film and Video will be MORE than abundant by myself, ZERO, and
locals.
InFo - 214-682-9026 or 918-241-3352 Ext. 269

EL PASO, UNITY  -- May 7th  -- 915.578.8995
   brought to you by Eagle of Ecore Productions, PRB and
     Universal Alliance
DJs: Laura La Gassa (San Fran), D-Quest (Denver), Shawn &
    Intensity (Albuquerque), Wisc (Houston) and Trans (El
    Paso)
   Be there to experience El Paso's phattest and best
            rave EVER!! Peace and love and Unity!

If anyone would like more info on these parties or for other states Midwest
please drop a bomb here!

Also, anyone interested in trading digital recordings of these or other
parties lemme know and I'll send out a list.  Some really great stuff this
month beside locals there is HardKiss, Ernie Munsen, John Howard and
Darkhorse (SF), Dub Tribe and Aphex Twins.  Approved for TRADE only!
Later.

ellisd

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 10:07:04 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404251704.KAA17891@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: No rest for the Wicked
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



The party was going to be at 1015? Really? But isn`t Martini's
happening there? Yes and yes, I was told.  When I got there with my
friend, Ali, there was already a line out of the side door, it seemed
that WICKED was to go on in the basement while Martini's would carry on
up stairs.  Strange but it seemed to work, Martini's is, as someone
posted a while back, "all about scammin" and the energy was thick,
still alot of the regular Martini party goers became curious about this
"seperate party" (which they couldn't go to unless they got a stamp,
which I'm sure they had to pay extra for). People always want something
even more if you tell them they can't have it.  The WICKED party was
your standard sweaty e-pit type WICKED, in the basement, hot,
smokey,steamy, sexy and killer music.  When I got there at about 1:00,
Bones was going off on the decks, warming the crowd up (as if it needed
it).  I ran into jsl and complained to him about the temperature in the
basement, he made a very prophetic statement when he said something
like "It don't matter, the true believers will all be down there before
the night is over" Markie took control around 3:00, and proceeded to
slam it.  It was hot and smokey which seriously interfears with my
ability to dance, but I went for it anyway, as I looked around, I saw a
lot of "old-skool" in the house, people I haven't seen in months, some
of the Martini's crowd would filter in, most couldn't stand the heat
and left but a few remained... to have their minds blown open.  I must
say that the smile factor was high but the craker-jack factor was even
higher (can I get a witness jsl? )  Markie had muthafuckers jumpin and
screamin and carrying on in 100 deg. heat.  I would periodically go
upstairs to get air, you know I have a great idea, instead of selling
hits of nitrous at these hot basement wickeds, why not sell hits of
oxygen?  I know I'd buy a balloon :) Anyway by 4:30 am the place was
"out of control" when I saw Jeno push through the crown and open his
crates, jsl and I looked at each other, we both knew what was about to
happen, I said "Aw shit, here we go", Jeno was _relentless_ it is
definitely the best set I've heard him play all summer, (I hear he's
been practicing and it shows) I had a feeling that he would have to
bust it open _way_ past Markie and I'm glad Markie set the marker way
up high so he really had to go for it, and go for it he did! Even in
the heat, "old-skool" was in the back tranced out, doing flips, twirls,
summersaults,and floor dives :) It was so intense that some folks
couldn't take it any more and had to take their asses home :) (Can I
get another witness jsl? :).  But in the end John you were right the
true believers did wind up in that basement in the morning.

Oh I forgot about my episode with Sgt.Buchard, the one man raver hating
task force.  This guy has been hassling south of market clubs for the
last year or so, he really has it in for WICKED, I'm upstairs at the moment
trying to deal with a kid that has taken one hit too many and is screaming
"help me, sombody help me" at the top of his lungs.  I had to move him out of
the stimulus of the basement (which was a trip in it's self) almost getting
in a fight with a "gangsta" (I guess my overwhelming size _is_ an asset,
this guy pushes the dosed raver real hard as I'm trying to get him through the
crowd, I kinda loose my kool and tell him to get out of the way, "gangsta"
stands there being kool, then the Brooklyn blood wells up in me and I yell
"Step the FUCK back, NOW!" Gangsta says "fuck you" but he gets out of my way.
We sit the guy down in the hall way, he is still screaming, finally I give
him some rescue remedy (a bach flower remedy, sorta like a homeopathic 
remedy) and he begins to calm down, just then Buchard comes through the door,
I say OH shit, the last thing WICKED needs is for this asshole cop to find a
kid out of him mind dosed, so I bust-myself of any contra-band that I might have
been carrying and step to him.  He engauges me immediately (which is what I 
wanted) and starts asking me my name, I tell him John :) "John what"
"John Waters", OK where do you live John, "Why do you want to know? Are you 
gonna come visit me big boy? (Straight cops _hate_ gay male energy, it makes 
them uncomfortable, and when they are uncomfortable, YOU have the upperhand,
(I don't mind being queen for a day :).  "Well what's your phone number"
I say "I don't have to tell you that, we haven't even met yet, , What's your 
name?" He says "Sgt. Buchard, let me ask you, why did you come here tonight?
Do you work here?" I say "No, I'm a patron, I've come to dance and have a good
time, why did you come here?" He says " I'm here to make sure that these people
have their permits in order and.." I cut in "OH I heard about that, but didn't
a federal judge put a restraining order on the city of san francisco? Something
about civil rights violations?" He says "Yeah, well I gotta go John" and out the
door he goes. Shit, a very psychicly draining experience.  It totally blew
my high and it took the best part of Jeno's set to restore my vibe factor,
still mission accomplished I guess.  As I said, thanks Sean for posting that
tid bit of info, it really came in handy.


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 10:14:18 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 13:11:24 EDT
Subject: Full Moon Party?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Was there a full moon party last night or are they doing it tonight (mon)?

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 10:34:09 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 10:34:12 PDT
From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Message-Id: <9404251734.AA19855@bethe.ucdavis.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Raving or Naving ...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Well, to the dismay of everyone sick of the bible-raving thread I
am inclined to comment again.  Let me preface this with the following:
there have been only a few posts expressing discomfort or disatisfaction
with Mathew Fox's proposed rave mass.  I share this discomfort.
I believe it is part anti-drug crusading and partly a move to embrace 
young, hip, christian kids (i.e. give them "cooler" church dances).

( the words of //g )
> ... I found the source of my discontent in cognitive dissonance.
> ...  he's trying to bring those rebellious young'uns back into the fold
> through gradual indoctrination, or possibly both.

He is preaching to the converted - let him be.  If he starts sending
out missionaries to other raves who are spreading "the word" then
I would be concerned.  This type of behavior could easily cause some
people to feel guilty or angry and could trigger "bad trips".

> "If we are all God, then what makes Christ special ...

Here is my interpretation.  Christ is an ideal.  He is an abstraction.
A model of perfection provided to those who want such a model to guide
them in their lives.  Like in a dog show - the dogs don't compete
against each other but against the Kennel Association's description of
the perfect dog.  It seems to work for some people.

>	At some point, we all have to make a choice ...
> Is your life based on the fear of reprisal or the joy of existence?

Although words like "fear of reprisal" seem crazy to many of us.  We
have to hope and trust that it is not the same literal fear that motivates
the KKK and other hate mongers.  I still think that there are decent
Christians who believe deeply in those words in a way that I don't
understand or care to.  I try and be happy for their happiness.  Period.

Please keep any reponses rave-related and short or else send it just
to me.  Thanks.

Dave


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Date: 25 Apr 1994 11:10:34 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: geek/wonk alert
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From:	PAELE::LARSON       "Howard Larson 60215" 25-APR-1994 11:02:20.09
To:	JOYCE::SCRUTON
CC:	
Subj:	

THE HACKER TEST - Version 1.0
 
Preface:  06.16.89
 
This test was conceived and written by Felix Lee, John Hayes and Angela
Thomas at the end of the spring semester, 1989.  It has gone through
many revisions prior to this initial release, and will undoubtedly go
through many more.
 
 
(Herewith a compendium of fact and folklore about computer hackerdom,
cunningly disguised as a test.)
 
 
Scoring - Count 1 for each item that you have done, or each
question that you can answer correctly.
 
 
If you score is between:                    You are
 
0x000 and 0x010       ->         Computer Illiterate
0x011 and 0x040       ->         a User
0x041 and 0x080       ->         an Operator
0x081 and 0x0C0       ->         a Nerd
0x0C1 and 0x100       ->         a Hacker
0x101 and 0x180       ->         a Guru
0x181 and 0x200       ->         a Wizard
 
Note: If you don't understand the scoring, stop here.
 
 
And now for the questions...
 
 
0001 Have you ever used a computer?
0002 ... for more than 4 hours continuously?
0003 ... more than 8 hours?
0004 ... more than 16 hours?
0005 ... more than 32 hours?
 
0006 Have you ever patched paper tape?
 
0007 Have you ever missed a class while programming?
0008 ... Missed an examination?
0009 ... Missed a wedding?
0010 ... Missed your own wedding?
 
0011 Have you ever programmed while intoxicated?
0012 ... Did it make sense the next day?
 
0013 Have you ever written a flight simulator?
 
0014 Have you ever voided the warranty on your equipment?
 
0015 Ever change the value of 4?
0016 ... Unintentionally?
0017 ... In a language other than Fortran?
 
0018 Do you use DWIM to make life interesting?
 
0019 Have you named a computer?
 
0020 Do you complain when a "feature" you use gets fixed?
 
0021 Do you eat slime-molds?
 
0022 Do you know how many days old you are?
 
0023 Have you ever wanted to download pizza?
 
0024 Have you ever invented a computer joke?
0025 ... Did someone not 'get' it?
 
0026 Can you recite Jabberwocky?
0027 ... Backwards?
 
0028 Have you seen "Donald Duck in Mathemagic Land"?
 
0029 Have you seen "Tron"?
 
0030 Have you seen "Wargames"?
 
0031 Do you know what ASCII stands for?
0032 ... EBCDIC?
 
0033 Can you read and write ASCII in hex or octal?
0034 Do you know the names of all the ASCII control codes?
 
0035 Can you read and write EBCDIC in hex?
 
0036 Can you convert from EBCDIC to ASCII and vice versa?
 
0037 Do you know what characters are the same in both ASCII and EBCDIC?
 
0038 Do you know maxint on your system?
 
0039 Ever define your own numerical type to get better precision?
 
0040 Can you name powers of two up to 2**16 in arbitrary order?
0041 ... up to 2**32?
0042 ... up to 2**64?
 
0043 Can you read a punched card, looking at the holes?
0044 ... feeling the holes?
 
0045 Have you ever patched binary code?
0046 ... While the program was running?
 
0047 Have you ever used program overlays?
 
0048 Have you met any IBM vice-president?
0049 Do you know Dennis, Bill, or Ken?
 
0050 Have you ever taken a picture of a CRT?
0051 Have you ever played a videotape on your CRT?
 
0052 Have you ever digitized a picture?
 
0053 Did you ever forget to mount a scratch monkey?
 
0054 Have you ever optimized an idle loop?
 
0055 Did you ever optimize a bubble sort?
 
0056 Does your terminal/computer talk to you?
 
0057 Have you ever talked into an acoustic modem?
0058 ... Did it answer?
 
0059 Can you whistle 300 baud?
0060 ... 1200 baud?
 
0061 Can you whistle a telephone number?
 
0062 Have you witnessed a disk crash?
0063 Have you made a disk drive "walk"?
 
0064 Can you build a puffer train?
0065 ... Do you know what it is?
 
0066 Can you play music on your line printer?
0067 ... Your disk drive?
0068 ... Your tape drive?
 
0069 Do you have a Snoopy calendar?
0070 ... Is it out-of-date?
 
0071 Do you have a line printer picture of...
0072 ... the Mona Lisa?
0073 ... the Enterprise?
0074 ... Einstein?
0075 ... Oliver?
0076 Have you ever made a line printer picture?
 
0077 Do you know what the following stand for?
0078 ... DASD
0079 ... Emacs
0080 ... ITS
0081 ... RSTS/E
0082 ... SNA
0083 ... Spool
0084 ... TCP/IP
 
Have you ever used
0085 ... TPU?
0086 ... TECO?
0087 ... Emacs?
0088 ... ed?
0089 ... vi?
0090 ... Xedit (in VM/CMS)?
0091 ... SOS?
0092 ... EDT?
0093 ... Wordstar?
 
0094 Have you ever written a CLIST?
 
Have you ever programmed in
0095 ... the X windowing system?
0096 ... CICS?
 
0097 Have you ever received a Fax or a photocopy of a floppy?
 
0098 Have you ever shown a novice the "any" key?
0099 ... Was it the power switch?
 
Have you ever attended
0100 ... Usenix?
0101 ... DECUS?
0102 ... SHARE?
0103 ... SIGGRAPH?
0104 ... NetCon?
 
0105 Have you ever participated in a standards group?
 
0106 Have you ever debugged machine code over the telephone?
 
0107 Have you ever seen voice mail?
0108 ... Can you read it?
 
0109 Do you solve word puzzles with an on-line dictionary?
 
0110 Have you ever taken a Turing test?
0111 ... Did you fail?
 
0112 Ever drop a card deck?
0113 ... Did you successfully put it back together?
0114 ... Without looking?
 
0115 Have you ever used IPCS?
 
0116 Have you ever received a case of beer with your computer?
 
0117 Does your computer come in 'designer' colors?
 
0118 Ever interrupted a UPS?
 
0119 Ever mask an NMI?
 
0120 Have you ever set off a Halon system?
0121 ... Intentionally?
0122 ... Do you still work there?
 
0123 Have you ever hit the emergency power switch?
0124 ... Intentionally?
 
0125 Do you have any defunct documentation?
0126 ... Do you still read it?
 
0127 Ever reverse-engineer or decompile a program?
0128 ... Did you find bugs in it?
 
0129 Ever help the person behind the counter with their terminal/computer?
 
0130 Ever tried rack mounting your telephone?
 
0131 Ever thrown a computer from more than two stories high?
 
0132 Ever patched a bug the vendor does not acknowledge?
 
0133 Ever fix a hardware problem in software?
0134 ... Vice versa?
 
0135 Ever belong to a user/support group?
 
0136 Ever been mentioned in Computer Recreations?
 
0137 Ever had your activities mentioned in the newspaper?
0138 ... Did you get away with it?
 
0139 Ever engage a drum brake while the drum was spinning?
 
0140 Ever write comments in a non-native language?
 
0141 Ever physically destroy equipment from software?
 
0142 Ever tried to improve your score on the Hacker Test?
 
0143 Do you take listings with you to lunch?
0144 ... To bed?
 
0145 Ever patch a microcode bug?
0146 ... around a microcode bug?
 
0147 Can you program a Turing machine?
 
0148 Can you convert postfix to prefix in your head?
 
0149 Can you convert hex to octal in your head?
 
0150 Do you know how to use a Kleene star?
 
0151 Have you ever starved while dining with philosophers?
 
0152 Have you solved the halting problem?
0153 ... Correctly?
 
0154 Ever deadlock trying eating spaghetti?
 
0155 Ever written a self-reproducing program?
 
0156 Ever swapped out the swapper?
 
0157 Can you read a state diagram?
0158 ... Do you need one?
 
0159 Ever create an unkillable program?
0160 ... Intentionally?
 
0161 Ever been asked for a cookie?
 
0162 Ever speed up a system by removing a jumper?
 
* Do you know...
 
0163 Do you know who wrote Rogue?
0164 ... Rogomatic?
 
0165 Do you know Gray code?
 
0166 Do you know what HCF means?
0167 ... Ever use it?
0168 ... Intentionally?
 
0169 Do you know what a lace card is?
0170 ... Ever make one?
 
0171 Do you know the end of the epoch?
0172 ... Have you celebrated the end of an epoch?
0173 ... Did you have to rewrite code?
 
0174 Do you know the difference between DTE and DCE?
 
0175 Do you know the RS-232C pinout?
0176 ... Can you wire a connector without looking?
 
* Do you have...
 
0177 Do you have a copy of Dec Wars?
0178 Do you have the Canonical Collection of Lightbulb Jokes?
0179 Do you have a copy of the Hacker's dictionary?
0180 ... Did you contribute to it?
 
0181 Do you have a flowchart template?
0182 ... Is it unused?
 
0183 Do you have your own fortune-cookie file?
 
0184 Do you have the Anarchist's Cookbook?
0185 ... Ever make anything from it?
 
0186 Do you own a modem?
0187 ... a terminal?
0188 ... a toy computer?
0189 ... a personal computer?
0190 ... a minicomputer?
0191 ... a mainframe?
0192 ... a supercomputer?
0193 ... a hypercube?
0194 ... a printer?
0195 ... a laser printer?
0196 ... a tape drive?
0197 ... an outmoded peripheral device?
 
0198 Do you have a programmable calculator?
0199 ... Is it RPN?
 
0200 Have you ever owned more than 1 computer?
0201 ... 4 computers?
0202 ... 16 computers?
 
0203 Do you have a SLIP line?
0204 ... a T1 line?
 
0205 Do you have a separate phone line for your terminal/computer?
0206 ... Is it legal?
 
0207 Do you have core memory?
0208 ... drum storage?
0209 ... bubble memory?
 
0210 Do you use more than 16 megabytes of disk space?
0211 ... 256 megabytes?
0212 ... 1 gigabyte?
0213 ... 16 gigabytes?
0214 ... 256 gigabytes?
0215 ... 1 terabyte?
 
0216 Do you have an optical disk/disk drive?
 
0217 Do you have a personal magnetic tape library?
0218 ... Is it unlabelled?
 
0219 Do you own more than 16 floppy disks?
0220 ... 64 floppy disks?
0221 ... 256 floppy disks?
0222 ... 1024 floppy disks?
 
0223 Do you have any 8-inch disks?
 
0224 Do you have an internal stack?
 
0225 Do you have a clock interrupt?
 
0226 Do you own volumes 1 to 3 of _The Art of Computer Programming_?
0227 ... Have you done all the exercises?
0228 ... Do you have a MIX simulator?
0229 ... Can you name the unwritten volumes?
 
0230 Can you quote from _The Mythical Man-month_?
0231 ... Did you participate in the OS/360 project?
 
0232 Do you have a TTL handbook?
 
0233 Do you have printouts more than three years old?
 
* Career
 
0234 Do you have a job?
0235 ... Have you ever had a job?
0236 ... Was it computer-related?
 
0237 Do you work irregular hours?
 
0238 Have you ever been a system administrator?
 
0239 Do you have more megabytes than megabucks?
 
0240 Have you ever downgraded your job to upgrade your processing power?
 
0241 Is your job secure?
0242 ... Do you have code to prove it?
 
0243 Have you ever had a security clearance?
 
* Games
 
0244 Have you ever played Pong?
 
Have you ever played
0246 ... Spacewar?
0247 ... Star Trek?
0248 ... Wumpus?
0249 ... Lunar Lander?
0250 ... Empire?
 
Have you ever beaten
0251 ... Moria 4.8?
0252 ... Rogue 3.6?
0253 ... Rogue 5.3?
0254 ... Larn?
0255 ... Hack 1.0.3?
0256 ... Nethack 2.4?
 
0257 Can you get a better score on Rogue than Rogomatic?
 
0258 Have you ever solved Adventure?
0259 ... Zork?
 
0260 Have you ever written any redcode?
 
0261 Have you ever written an adventure program?
0262 ... a real-time game?
0263 ... a multi-player game?
0264 ... a networked game?
 
0265 Can you out-doctor Eliza?
 
* Hardware
 
0266 Have you ever used a light pen?
0267 ... did you build it?
 
Have you ever used
0268 ... a teletype?
0269 ... a paper tape?
0270 ... a decwriter?
0271 ... a card reader/punch?
0272 ... a SOL?
 
Have you ever built
0273 ... an Altair?
0274 ... a Heath/Zenith computer?
 
Do you know how to use
0275 ... an oscilliscope?
0276 ... a voltmeter?
0277 ... a frequency counter?
0278 ... a logic probe?
0279 ... a wirewrap tool?
0280 ... a soldering iron?
0281 ... a logic analyzer?
 
0282 Have you ever designed an LSI chip?
0283 ... has it been fabricated?
 
0284 Have you ever etched a printed circuit board?
 
* Historical
 
0285 Have you ever toggled in boot code on the front panel?
0286 ... from memory?
 
0287 Can you program an Eniac?
 
0288 Ever seen a 90 column card?
 
* IBM
 
0289 Do you recite IBM part numbers in your sleep?
0290 Do you know what IBM part number 7320154 is?
 
0291 Do you understand 3270 data streams?
 
0292 Do you know what the VM privilege classes are?
 
0293 Have you IPLed an IBM off the tape drive?
0294 ... off a card reader?
 
0295 Can you sing something from the IBM Songbook?
 
* Languages
 
0296 Do you know more than 4 programming languages?
0297 ... 8 languages?
0298 ... 16 languages?
0299 ... 32 languages?
 
0300 Have you ever designed a programming language?
 
0301 Do you know what Basic stands for?
0302 ... Pascal?
 
0303 Can you program in Basic?
0304 ... Do you admit it?
 
0305 Can you program in Cobol?
0306 ... Do you deny it?
 
0307 Do you know Pascal?
0308 ... Modula-2?
0309 ... Oberon?
0310 ... More that two Wirth languages?
0311 ... Can you recite a Nicklaus Wirth joke?
 
0312 Do you know Algol-60?
0313 ... Algol-W?
0314 ... Algol-68?
0315 ... Do you understand the Algol-68 report?
0316 ... Do you like two-level grammars?
 
0317 Can you program in assembler on 2 different machines?
0318 ... on 4 different machines?
0319 ... on 8 different machines?
 
Do you know
0320 ... APL?
0321 ... Ada?
0322 ... BCPL?
0323 ... C++?
0324 ... C?
0325 ... Comal?
0326 ... Eiffel?
0327 ... Forth?
0328 ... Fortran?
0329 ... Hypertalk?
0330 ... Icon?
0331 ... Lisp?
0332 ... Logo?
0333 ... MIIS?
0334 ... MUMPS?
0335 ... PL/I?
0336 ... Pilot?
0337 ... Plato?
0338 ... Prolog?
0339 ... RPG?
0340 ... Rexx (or ARexx)?
0341 ... SETL?
0342 ... Smalltalk?
0343 ... Snobol?
0344 ... VHDL?
0345 ... any assembly language?
 
0346 Can you talk VT-100?
0347 ... Postscript?
0348 ... SMTP?
0349 ... UUCP?
0350 ... English?
 
* Micros
 
0351 Ever copy a copy-protected disk?
0352 Ever create a copy-protection scheme?
 
0353 Have you ever made a "flippy" disk?
 
0354 Have you ever recovered data from a damaged disk?
 
0355 Ever boot a naked floppy?
 
* Networking
 
0356 Have you ever been logged in to two different timezones at once?
 
0357 Have you memorized the UUCP map for your country?
0358 ... For any country?
 
0359 Have you ever found a sendmail bug?
0360 ... Was it a security hole?
 
0361 Have you memorized the HOSTS.TXT table?
0362 ... Are you up to date?
 
0363 Can you name all the top-level nameservers and their addresses?
 
0364 Do you know RFC-822 by heart?
0365 ... Can you recite all the errors in it?
 
0366 Have you written a Sendmail configuration file?
0367 ... Does it work?
0368 ... Do you mumble "defocus" in your sleep?
 
0369 Do you know the max packet lifetime?
 
* Operating systems
 
Can you use
0370 ... BSD Unix?
0371 ... non-BSD Unix?
0372 ... AIX
0373 ... VM/CMS?
0374 ... VMS?
0375 ... MVS?
0376 ... VSE?
0377 ... RSTS/E?
0378 ... CP/M?
0379 ... COS?
0380 ... NOS?
0381 ... CP-67?
0382 ... RT-11?
0383 ... MS-DOS?
0384 ... Finder?
0385 ... PRODOS?
0386 ... more than one OS for the TRS-80?
0387 ... Tops-10?
0388 ... Tops-20?
0389 ... OS-9?
0390 ... OS/2?
0391 ... AOS/VS?
0392 ... Multics?
0393 ... ITS?
0394 ... Vulcan?
 
0395 Have you ever paged or swapped off a tape drive?
0396 ... Off a card reader/punch?
0397 ... Off a teletype?
0398 ... Off a networked (non-local) disk?
 
0399 Have you ever found an operating system bug?
0400 ... Did you exploit it?
0401 ... Did you report it?
0402 ... Was your report ignored?
 
0403 Have you ever crashed a machine?
0404 ... Intentionally?
 
* People
 
0405 Do you know any people?
0406 ... more than one?
0407 ... more than two?
 
* Personal
 
0408 Are your shoelaces untied?
 
0409 Do you interface well with strangers?
 
0410 Are you able to recite phone numbers for half-a-dozen computer systems
but unable to recite your own?
 
0411 Do you log in before breakfast?
 
0412 Do you consume more than LD-50 caffeine a day?
 
0413 Do you answer either-or questions with "yes"?
 
0414 Do you own an up-to-date copy of any operating system manual?
0415 ... *every* operating system manual?
 
0416 Do other people have difficulty using your customized environment?
 
0417 Do you dream in any programming languages?
 
0418 Do you have difficulty focusing on three-dimensional objects?
 
0419 Do you ignore mice?
 
0420 Do you despise the CAPS LOCK key?
 
0421 Do you believe menus belong in restaurants?
 
0422 Do you have a Mandelbrot hanging on your wall?
 
0423 Have you ever decorated with magnetic tape or punched cards?
0424 Do you have a disk platter or a naked floppy hanging in your home?
 
0425 Have you ever seen the dawn?
0426 ... Twice in a row?
 
0427 Do you use "foobar" in daily conversation?
0428 ... "bletch"?
 
0429 Do you use the "P convention"?
 
0430 Do you automatically respond to any user question with RTFM?
0431 ... Do you know what it means?
 
0432 Do you think garbage collection means memory management?
 
0433 Do you have problems allocating horizontal space in your room/office?
 
0434 Do you read Scientific American in bars to pick up women?
 
0435 Is your license plate computer-related?
 
0436 Have you ever taken the Purity test?
 
0437 Ever have an out-of-CPU experience?
 
0438 Have you ever set up a blind date over the computer?
 
0439 Do you talk to the person next to you via computer?
 
* Programming
 
0440 Can you write a Fortran compiler?
0441 ... In TECO?
 
0442 Can you read a machine dump?
0443 Can you disassemble code in your head?
 
Have you ever written
0444 ... a compiler?
0445 ... an operating system?
0446 ... a device driver?
0447 ... a text processor?
0448 ... a display hack?
0449 ... a database system?
0450 ... an expert system?
0451 ... an edge detector?
0452 ... a real-time control system?
0453 ... an accounting package?
0454 ... a virus?
0455 ... a prophylactic?
 
0456 Have you ever written a biorhythm program?
0457 ... Did you sell the output?
0458 ... Was the output arbitrarily invented?
 
0459 Have you ever computed pi to more than a thousand decimal places?
0460 ... the number e?
 
0461 Ever find a prime number of more than a hundred digits?
 
0462 Have you ever written self-modifying code?
0463 ... Are you proud of it?
 
0464 Did you ever write a program that ran correctly the first time?
0465 ... Was it longer than 20 lines?
0466 ... 100 lines?
0467 ... Was it in assembly language?
0468 ... Did it work the second time?
 
0469 Can you solve the Towers of Hanoi recursively?
0470 ... Non-recursively?
0471 ... Using the Troff text formatter?
 
0472 Ever submit an entry to the Obfuscated C code contest?
0473 ... Did it win?
0474 ... Did your entry inspire a new rule?
 
0475 Do you know Duff's device?
 
0476 Do you know Jensen's device?
 
0477 Ever spend ten minutes trying to find a single-character error?
0478 ... More than an hour?
0479 ... More than a day?
0480 ... More than a week?
0481 ... Did the first person you show it to find it immediately?
 
* Unix
 
0482 Can you use Berkeley Unix?
0483 .. Non-Berkeley Unix?
 
0484 Can you distinguish between sections 4 and 5 of the Unix manual?
 
0485 Can you find TERMIO in the System V release 2 documentation?
 
0486 Have you ever mounted a tape as a Unix file system?
 
0487 Have you ever built Minix?
 
0488 Can you answer "quiz function ed-command" correctly?
0489 ... How about "quiz ed-command function"?
 
* Usenet
 
0490 Do you read news?
0491 ... More than 32 newsgroups?
0492 ... More than 256 newsgroups?
0493 ... All the newsgroups?
 
0494 Have you ever posted an article?
0495 ... Do you post regularly?
 
0496 Have you ever posted a flame?
0497 ... Ever flame a cross-posting?
0498 ... Ever flame a flame?
0499 ... Do you flame regularly?
 
0500 Ever have your program posted to a source newsgroup?
 
0501 Ever forge a posting?
0502 Ever form a new newsgroup?
0503 ... Does it still exist?
 
0504 Do you remember
0505 ... mod.ber?
0506 ... the Stupid People's Court?
0507 ... Bandy-grams?
 
* Phreaking
 
0508 Have you ever built a black box?
 
0509 Can you name all of the 'colors' of boxes?
0510 ... and their associated functions?
 
0511 Does your touch tone phone have 16 DTMF buttons on it?
 
0512 Did the breakup of MaBell create more opportunities for you?




From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 11:23:37 1994
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <9404251123.ZM27536@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:23:26 -0700
In-Reply-To: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
        "$20!!!!????" (Apr 24, 12:00pm)
References: <199404241900.MAA09044@mail.netcom.com>
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To: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Actually, events have been $20 at the Troc since I can remember.  When they
had the best club sound system I've *ever* heard, 15 months ago, it almost
seemed worth it.  I bet Organic had to pay an enormous rental for the place.
The lack of medium-sized indoor spaces is beginning to constrict the scene
severely.  Not a single new one seems to have become reliably available
in the last year in the Bay Area, at least that I know of.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 11:33:33 1994
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <9404251133.ZM1494@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:33:33 -0700
In-Reply-To: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
        ""Rave" Not an Effective (or Meaningful) Counter-Culture Movement" (Apr 24, 11:45am)
References: <199404241845.LAA16616@nexsys.nexsys.net>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.0 15dec93)
To: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: "Rave" Not an Effective (or Meaningful) Counter-Culture Movement
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Jamal Hannah's opinion that raving is not 'progressive' because it relies
on technology produced by the same system that oppresses us is the same
old tired academic-left argument which misunderstands what Marx wrote
about the relationship between technology and capital.  Consider that
the computer he -- and we -- use to write and read these messages are
far more closely allied with the post-World War II technologies of
nuclear weapons, guidance systems, COMINT and all the other military
and commercial electronic technology that is in use, than the turntables,
loudspeakers and vinyl-cutting and pressing machines that are the 
technological backbone of musical events.  Contradictions, contradictions :)

Hakim Bey had some very canny things to say about the technology/capital
relationship, and I wish Hannah had taken them into account.  But even his
radical critique of social relations mediated by technology, and the
counter-efforts to subvert/transform those relations -- for example, by
redirecting their intent and use in the T.A.Z. -- is hardly a new thought.

Emma Goldman said it best (and many remember this quote even though they
know little of her own efforts otherwise):

If I can't dance, I won't be part of your revolution!



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 11:38:54 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:36:56 -0700
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404251836.LAA17984@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, seanc43@aol.com
Subject: Re: Full Moon Party?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Mon Apr 25 10:14:03 1994
> Return-Path: <SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
> From: seanc43@aol.com
> X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 13:11:24 EDT
> Subject: Full Moon Party?
> Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Content-Length: 75
> X-Lines: 1
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> 
> Was there a full moon party last night or are they doing it tonight (mon)?
> 

The FMR is tonight.

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 11:47:40 1994
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From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Message-Id: <199404251848.LAA17227@netcom.com>
Subject: A (Long) Weekend
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
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Greetings, Ravers!

Sorry for the disappointment of no Launch Pad.  We've decided to take
a rain check <groan> to Saturday, May 21st.  In preparation for Launch
Pad, I got to go out and promote at a number of different parties
from Thursday through Sunday, so I thought I would share my impressions.

On thursday night, i stopped in to Pure Space at the DNA. $5, and a party
put on by Donovan.  Spinning were Spun, Josh, and Markie.  I heard
the tail end of Jason's set, and the first 2/3 of Josh' set, which
were both quite good.  The sound system is a little peculiar at DNA,
and completely lacked any focus, but there _was_ sound everywhere,
since there were speakers everywhere (it seemed).  Lots of old and
familiar faces there.  A fine party that seems to have a bright
future.

Friday, I visited Apocalypse at the Haze, to visit with DRC.  Unfortunately,
I had my ears blown out again, and so I'm going to swear off the Haze
for a while, or always take earplugs, or both. Sigh.  I wandered over
to 1015 to check out Wicked.  I always hang out outside at 1015 to check
the vibe before I go in.  This time, I decided *not* to go in, since
two people who i know well (and who know me) completely ignored my
screaming in their ears.  Plus, i got to witness several people being
abused and ignored at the line for the plebians.  Sigh. just another party
at 1015.

Saturday, after much sturm und drang over Launch Pad, i eventually popped
out to Spiral Jive.  These folks have a good sound system (phuq all loud
enough), are good DJs, and have a fine location.  I got to visit with
some friends and hear some fine tunes, well mixed, and get my renegade
fix that i had been jonesing for.  Check out this party some time.

Sunday, at phred's recommendation, and my own desire to visit the Tofu
BBQ and Ambient Party, i stopped in to Ameba's.  This is a fine get-
together hosted by Allen.  I highly recommend stopping in to visit with
Allen and the crew for a tofu burger, barbequed garlic, a yam perhaps,
and some fine tunes, all in the outdoors.  i spun a bit of ambient,
got to listen to Adam from SD as well as Galen and phred.  love this
party, and loved the energy.  Brycer says: check it out.

Well, that's that.  See you all soon, i hope!
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@netcom.com-----
"We have a problem. Too many of you know who we are."  AMI
Semiconductor ad copy

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 11:49:21 1994
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Message-Id: <9404251149.ZM6976@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:49:16 -0700
In-Reply-To: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
        "No rest for the Wicked" (Apr 25, 10:04am)
References: <199404251704.KAA17891@nexsys.nexsys.net>
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If I didn't know Geoff as well as I do, it would be a little hard to
imagine his back-to-back showdowns with The Attitude and The Law.
Truth is stranger, and *better*, than fiction!!


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 12:04:47 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:09:23 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Recent Thoughts
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Greetings Friends!

Well, I've got a lot of ground to cover so get a cup of coffee and 
settle in :)

First off Launch Pad:
Really sorry this one didn't happen as planned (a first for us!) but my
take on the situation (and others, though not all involved) was that rain
was an easy possibility in addition to which the wind was positively
howling and the air temp was the coldest I've felt since winter proper.
I've been at this site (for our parties) numerous times when it was
brutally cold. The usual scenario is that all our friends and often others
show up to support us, get driven away by the cold around 2ish, and ten or
so of us dance as hard as possible for the rest of the night to keep from
dying;) I'm still concinced that, as much as I love playing to/with my
friends (especially on my system ;) parties need people. In retrospect I
think the correct decision was made. Most of you that I've talked to since
concurr. However let me add this: this party would have gone *off*. I
bumped into people on the street that were planning on going, I know lots
of you were planning on going, people I barely know--that I have know idea
how they found out--were calling me, etc. I think 100-150 is a very
accurate estimate of the nights potential. So anyway, weather permitting,
(!-!) we *will* do this party on Saturday May 21, so mark your calendar and
save up that good energy!

Spiral Jive:
Allright I'm gonna put this right on the table, and allen I'm sorry, but
you're the one that made it a *public* issue. It really pissed me off that
allen raised the issue of joining parties publicly instead of asking us how
we felt about it first. Obviously everyone would think it was a good idea
so in truth he was forcing us to accomodate SJ lest we look like dicks
which, as you can see, I feel would have been a very unfair assesment. For
at least this reason: In trying to set up a schedule for djs that would
give them at least enough time to find some kind of a groove, we
necessarily said yes to some and no to other very close friends (and sfr
djs) of ours. Why should we say no to them (who've worked with us and
supported us for a long time now, asked for slots, etc., etc.) and then
suddenly accomodate some other folks who just happened to be throwing a
party that night as well, especially considering the fact that they've been
doing parties almost every week. On any night, especially this summer,
there's gonna be lots of parties. What would've happened if we'd called
Organic and said: Hey, we're doin a party too, why don't you give our djs a
couple of slots and we'll join forces?
Which brings me to my next point.

Organic:
When allen said he was concerned about LP 'going up against' Organic (and
SJ) I basically replied (about organic): Fuck those scum sucking, plastic
palm tree, commerical $20 shitheads; they're almost the whole reason for
doing a renegade! And in indeed that reaction is one I tend towards easily.

Us and *Them* (generally, as opposed to organic or SJ):
After we decided to cancel LP I fell into a very dark mood. I started
wondering if by voting no on the party I was getting weak in my old age ;)
if I was getting jaded, lazy, complacent; if I had let you, and bryce, and
everybody else that was planning on coming down. As the rain resumed
falling and it got colder I grew a little more comfortable with that
decision but I also found myself bothered by my own awareness of the
emotional severity of my reaction to both Organic and the SJ collaborative
issue. So after some thought, I decided that, like it or not, I'd fallen
prey to the exact cliquishness, posseishness, us/them-ness that is really
chopping this scene up. More often than not it's easy to dress this up and
rationalize it, saying for instance; they're killing this scene by throwing
$20 parties, by only ever playing *their* djs, by always using the same
stupid nightclub, blah, blah, blah. There's a fine line between being an
astute consumer and applying the only leverage consumers have: not
consuming and--content in the knowledge that, 'only *we* know how to do it
right'--giving up on everything else cos 'it all sucks.' 

So I decided to just go out and give organic a chance. Ronan came over, we
played some records, went to Organic, got absolutely twisted and had a
really excellent time. I still feel that $20 is outrageous for any party at
the Trocadero but then again seing any band at the coliseum (yucchh!) would
cost ya $30+ for a three hour show so....In any event, all the djs were
excellent. Jeno went totally mad, playing *yes, it's true* very deep techno
trancy stuff, some nice hard acid and even a couple of my favorite choons
from my crate, Robert Armani stuff for instance. Unfortunately half the
sound system died during his set (for about an hour), which totally pissed
him off, but otherwise was the best big sound I've heard in a while. Tony
was brilliant, Graeme was great, DJ Dan impressed me and Markie went deep
on a *very experimental* tip early in the morning. I think he was playing
new material blind cos he was train wrecking all over the place, but the
music itself was just weird and twisted, right up my alley. He finally
settled down a bit and we ended the party with daylight filling the place,
little groups of people sitting, talking, tons of room on the dancefloor
with like twenty people just going mad! Jumping up and down, bouncing off
the walls, jogging leaping, cartwheeling. Best pure out dance release I've
had in a while. Viusally lots of hype and glitz. Big light show, dayglow
dancers prancing and dancing all night. Pink, green, purple, glow in the
dark, blobby "Organic" custom dj booth, and the ever amazing Make Mattel
banners. His banners are going down in history, he's an absolute genius.
I'm sure they'll be worth million some day. 

So if you feel like paying a premium for production values there's always
Organic. So how do I feel about that? Well, yesterday while talking with
Matt Fox (I'm gonna let that settle for a while before I post) we were all
kinda railing agaisnt the specifics of christianity and Bob Jesse asked the
question (and I paraphrase here): Religions are like lifeforms evolving
thru time, christianity is one of these. Do we really want it gone, dead,
extinct or, despite the fact the some of us detest it, does it nonetheless
have some value to the world? I would ask the same about Organic or any of
the 'biggies'. The economies of scale and associated risk seem to determine
that massives will remain in the $15-$20 range. So, is it over? Do we just
want small posse-related renegades? When I first got into this there were 4
$20 parties with lasers every weekend. I went, though I didn't often pay,
and more often than not I found what I wanted there: smiles, warmth,
massive sound, nifty visuals, release. People, maybe not us of late, are
still finding these things at raves. Do we want them gone? I don't know.

Sometimes it's awfully lonely being right.

peace always
ethan


                                _______ 
 ethan miller                     nrg                            pgp me   
_________________________ 'one unbroken whole' _________________________   
                         
                (: positive energy can save the world :)
               __________________________________________



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 12:05:55 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 15:05:53 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404251905.AA22400@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: My first...?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404241656.A29708-0100000@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I've been to 4 parties in Sac, and they all had that Universal Groove
let's wear grunge and stand around and project bad attitude vibe. RUDE
too. People always walking from A to B and back to A all night PUSHING
you aside. Bad vibe? Trance out in front of the speakers. Not! Not
when people are shoving you all night. I've pretty much given up on
Sac parties. If someone knows different, I'll try again.

Sean


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 12:08:05 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:07:59 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Radio Show
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Geoff comments in reference to Adam Curry's post about bringing a European
techno show to US radio markets:

>Uh-oh, here we go folks...

And what do you mean by that?  I happened to have talked to Adam about
this last night.  His aim is to bring techno/trance/progressive (as
in progressive house) music to radio in the US.  

Right now the best we have on "alternative" commercial radio is Steve 
Master's TACKY mix show on Live 105.  Masters plays bad tracks (i.e. 
Messiah's latest, "Thunderdome") the WORST mixes of tracks (i.e. the 
butchered breaky/diva mix of "Kinetic"), and plays stuff that is at 
least a year old (he finally played "Gravitational Arch of 10" three 
weeks ago, and I first bought it over a year ago.)

Sure, college stations often have good shows but I can't get any of
the good stations at my house or in my car.

So, if Curry's thing works, that would be good!  It's bound to be
better than the "Modern Mix" on Friday nights.  And if it doesn't work, 
then it certainly won't hurt us.

By the way, Adam also told us (we were on vrave at the time) that he
has quit his job at MTV, and is in the process of changing his 
machine at mtv.com to a new name.  So if you were really groaning
about the MTV aspect of it then never fear.

A friend of mine and I were talking the other day about how techno
is so locked into the rave scene.  I welcome the chance to hear it
in a new non-rave context.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 12:21:36 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:22:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
Subject: wwwwicked!
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Just a quick post--

I hadn't gone to a wicked in a long time; I had read all the posts about
the vibe and all that and I just didn't know if I wanted to go to a
"club" type party---

well, fuck that.  Wicked was absolutely kicking.  And, I must say, I met
more people at that party than any other this year.  Easily.  It was
hot, and it was awesome.  It was crowded and it was fantastic.  People
were there to dance and scream and shout and go OFF.  Everyone shared
water and smiles were abundant.  I introduced myself to a lot of people,
because I was tired of "people not meeting each other" and people
were into it.  It was a fantastic party, and Markie was fucking brilliant.

Brilliant party.  Gives me hope.  If you haven't checked out a Wicked for 
awhile, do try to check out the Bassment jams.  They are great.

Thanks for the good time!

m

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 12:25:48 1994
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Subject: Re: About Race // New Kids on the Block!
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 22 Apr 94 07:17:39 +0800."
             <9404221417.AA01480@gaia.internex.net> 
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 12:26:59 -0700
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


From: geoffw@internex.net (Geoff White)
> As I have said before, I have no problems with "Oaktown Hommies" comming
> to ANY party as long as they respect the people around them.  Unfortunately
> I have often heard remarks about said group along with talk about "ganstas"
> and the like.  This saddens me because even though some of these folks could
> cause trouble at parties, except for one incident (Candlestick park), I don't
> know of any overwhelming occurance of trouble by any of these groups.

Well, there was this "Rave Called Sharon" Free-Party at the beach below the
stables in Daly City. Some A.A. gangsta types with a large/mean Rottweiler
got the dog to start attacking ravers. A fight ensued, but no
injuries. Eventually the rave got going again, but it pretty much killed
the vibe for an hour or so. As the gangstas were retreating, ravers shouted
stuff like "you would have been welcome at our party but instead you had to
come ruin everybody's fun". I also heard mention that the fatal shooting at
that warehouse rave in santa cruz was mexican gang related.

However, in general, when I refer to "gangsta types" (and I have in the
past), I am not necessarily thinking about any particular race group, and
in the Bay Area there are Vietnamese, Mexican, Afro-American, Chinese
Samoan, Hawaiian, "redneck", and geek gangstas (we carry cellular Apple
Newtons, instead of pagers). A gangsta for every color of the rainbow.

But my brain hasn't melted down to the point that I'm so morally
relativistic to think that gangstas should be tolerated, exalted, or made
into a fashion statement. And if you think about it, that's what many of
the gangstas are -- fashion poseurs. And some of that 'tude is nothing but
a front that might be changed or grown out of.

This isn't a race thing, you should understand -- it's just a matter of not
accepting violence, domination, agression, and groupthink as a way to live.
On the other hand, isn't it kinda "imperialistic" of us to be asserting our
'tude on them? Why do we feel the need to prosletise and assimilate? And is
their 'tude and pose perhaps nothing more than their need to prosletise and
assimilate and fit in.

--------------------

Speaking of poseurs, a strange cultural event ensued yesterday while
walking off Jeno's Sunday afternoon trance @ 1015 Folsom (L.U.). There was
this huge line of people, many dressed in "gangsta wear" but basically too
young and innocent (and female :-) to look like it would pose much
danger. And besides, their parents, parked nearby in Voyagers and Vanagons,
would yank their allowance for a week if they got unruly. 

Turned out to be the line for that night's appearance of "NEW KIDS ON THE
BLOCK" at the Trocadero. Hoo boy. So I and a few other people that happened
to find themselves at Hotel Utah having an afternoon brew went outside to
watch the ebulluient, effervescent, unbridled innocence of youth. There
was a line of NKOTB fans, and a line across the street of over 21-year old
gawkers. We could also see the comings and goings of personnel in the New
Kids on the Block Tour bus. We were hoping to either see whether there was
blatant groupie activity going on, and secretly hoping that we'd see a
Beatlesque stampede on the tourbus -- Police tearing just-pubescent girlz's
grip's from band-member's legs and all that.

Eventually, due to the fact that the expectations of our overactive
imaginations weren't being met by the dull goings-on, we found ourselves
cackling insanely while we joked "Ohmigod!  Donny's Wearing a HUGE
strap-on!". And wondering aloud "what's that glass pipe he's smoking from?"

We figured we could run back to the Hotel Utah if we got attacked, since
the whole NKOTB line wasn't of age....

I guess the moral of this story is that it's damn hard not to be an asshole
to some other group; no matter how innocent the laughter, the laugher, or the
laughee. As someone said, "we're not laughing at them, we're not laughing
with them, we're laughing through them!"...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==           Niels Mayer -- netcom!mayer -- mayer@netcom.com               ==
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 12:28:20 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 12:13:32 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404251913.AA29465@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: SFRAVES Presents IN THE LIGHT
Cc: sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


....flashback...October..1993...from.the.sfraves.archives...................
 
"Every now and then, when I think that the Scene is really bad, when I 
think that it is dead, it's over, fucked.  A party will come along that 
helps me remember why we are all here and connected.  This was the party 
that did that for me this summer, It was a most fitting way to bring in 
fall and say farewell to the warm weather and regular outdoor parties. My 
hat goes off to all the SFRAVERS who  helped to put this party on."

"The vibe was strong and I really got a good groove fix."

"...and *so* many sfravers in attendance!  i think many of us got our views 
of the scene pleasantly refreshed.  thank you so much."

"Sunday in the park was major FUN stuff.  BIG Thanks to everyone
who made it go off ...   I just love losing my head w/SFravers.  :)"

"Well gang, the park party was fantastic.  Great to see everyone.  I think 
we need to throw another one just to thank the crew that put up this first 
one! "

"i also tryly enjoyed connection earth... i even had my picture taken by 
some ravergurlz."

"Then we went to the GG Park rave. It was killer!  It was just a 
fantastic time from beginning to (Alas!) end."

"Ditto on the kudos, boyo! That was a great party!"

"The other reviews were right on. It was a good vibe all day with people
dancing and hanging out and just being family.  It's truly a privilege to 
have all of you around as you spread such a good vibe and so many good
feelings. That's what it's all about :)."

"I hope everyone who went to the GG Park rave had as much fun as I did. 
Good dj-ing, communal sharing of stuff to eat and drink, dancing  Praises 
and applause for all the people who made it happen.  Let's do it again."
..........................................................................

Out from the darkness and away from our terminals, the varied talents of
SFRavers will mix and merge to send a message to the Bay Area House scene 
and to the crazy city of San Francisco: 

Organized by technology and motivated by the love of music & dance, 
SFRaves will present on May 28th, the Saturday of Memorial Day Weekend:

		       	IN THE LIGHT

A Celebration of Positive Intent, the Respect for Diversity, 
And the Ability to Transcend our Limits in Harmony with the World with a 
Ritual of Fun:
			
		->Get Infected by Meme -> 
		->Trance out with Laura ->
		->Take an Acid House Bath with Markie->

	      Audio by SoundVision - Three Turntables

	   Noon to 6PM at the Bandshell in Golden Gate Park


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
____________________________________________________________________________


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 12:28:25 1994
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From: humphrey@unity.ncsu.edu
Message-Id: <9404251927.AA03476@cc02du.unity.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Radio Show
To: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 15:27:58 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404251908.MAA05037@soda.berkeley.edu> from "Laura La Gassa" at Apr 25, 94 12:07:59 pm
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

i agree with laura about hearing techno music in places other that rave 
related. if techno were played in other places, and it's as good as we 
know it is, more people will like it. that will mean more possibilities 
for 'ravers' to have fun with the rest of society. 

while i sort of like the fact that most of the music i listen to, most 
people i know have never heard of and will never hear, it would be nice 
to be able to buy music at a store in the same town i live in and not 
have to mail order everything. it would be nice to go to the park with 
friends and bring a boom box and play some music that my friends have 
heard of before and like. it would be nice to go more events with the 
rest of my friends who have not been introduced to 'rave music' and not 
have it be at a rave. 

a lot of my friends don't live the same scedule and aren't willing to stay
up all night. i'd still like for them to get a chance to listen to good
music. 

i know there are also some drawbacks to rave music becoming more popular, 
like exploitation of the scene and capitolism ruining some aspects. 
aren't we strong enough to overcome that though? 

actually, i'm not certain what the outcome will be when rave and rave 
associated music reaches more mainstream bandwiths. i think it is bound 
to happen though, and we should think about it so that we can hopefully 
guide it and let it grow in to something good. can we change the world 
with music? that seems to be a reacurring cycling philosophy with 
sub-cultures around the world. maybe this is it? maybe it can happen? 
we'll see. i know i'm gonna try my hardest.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//////////  john     humphrey@unity.ncsu.edu ///////
/////////  rainbow   john_humphrey@ncsu.edu ///////
////////  humphrey   pgp key upon request  ///////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 12:45:22 1994
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Subject: Re: Radio Show
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At 12:07 PM 04/25/94 -0700, Laura La Gassa wrote:

>By the way, Adam also told us (we were on vrave at the time) that he
>has quit his job at MTV, and is in the process of changing his 
>machine at mtv.com to a new name.  So if you were really groaning
>about the MTV aspect of it then never fear.

Really? I was just watching him vj a show on Saturday. Actually, I think
it is about time for him to do so... Lookin' kinda old and unMTVhip... ;)

>Laura

-j



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 14:30:18 1994
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From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Message-Id: <199404252131.OAA01160@netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Wicked
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Wicked was hot sweaty and fun! I got there pretty late, ~3:30 or so, just
as they closed the upstairs and ushered everyone down to the bassment.
Great Vibe, except for this one asshole that kept coming up and just
standing in my dance space. So close to really cut into my style. I kept
moving to different parts of the room to escape him and finally I did. Also
he was smoking cigarette after cigarette which I just can't handle when I'm
exercizing. The music was the best I've heard in a long time. I couldn't
stop dancing! 
I wanted to check out Lighten-up  on Sunday but just couldn't get motived
to go out. Oh well, another time.

Rox

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 14:32:39 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404252132.AA28600@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: SFRAVES Presents IN THE LIGHT
In-Reply-To: <9404251913.AA29465@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
References: <9404251913.AA29465@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Yay! I'm going to bring bubbles (of course!), a zillion trash bags,
toys, and some giveaways. I was giving away flourescent string at
Close Encounters and they were loving it. String! Sometimes the
simplest things are best.

I'll help flyer for it, too...

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 15:09:47 1994
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From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404252153.AA02727@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: more light on IN THE LIGHT
Cc: sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

After putting everything on hold for week to assess the overall picture
concerning our scene, the attitudes on SFRaves, and my own convictions, 
it has become clear that not only do people want _In The Light_ to happen, 
but it may be more important *than ever* that we unite for parties that 
that come from the heart and speak to the ideals that transcend the 
differences among us and among the various factions of the Bay Area House 
Music scene.  This is *not* to say the Organic and Wicked don't have
heart, because they do.  Every party has its own flavor but some of us
prefer certain flavors over others... 
 
The flavor for _In The Light_ has the potential to be very special - all 
ages, outdoors, free (or a donation), in harmony with the public,
and the participation of SFRavers who come from a broad crossection of
tastes and "loyalties".  This will be a party of Unity, with the vibe
in full view, on stage...Liquid Air meets Your Sisters' House meets
Wicked meets the Dead Sea scrolls at the De Young Museum... Spiritualists,
Wiccans, Christains, goths, gangsta types, smokers, nudists... all will 
be welcome (not necessarily in any particular order :-).

Planning: As some of you know, there's a separate planners list
in existance.  It was created long ago to plan parties like Connections
that did not have a legal site and required a lot more secrecy and coor-
dination.  
 
The situation for _In The Light_ is a little different. The fundamentals
are all in place, though there is still some coordination that has to take
place.  But this is a party where everyone can voluntarily participate in a 
number of ways - ie. lot's of easy little things that do not require formal
planning - so unless there are major objections, I'm gonna keep SFRaves
completely in the loop.  More on those things in the coming weeks.
 
I want to thank everyone who contacted me and helped *me* see the light
and realize that there is never a wrong time for us to do what we feel is 
right.  Stay tuned...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 16:41:04 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 16:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Susan R. Kameny" <susie@sutro.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: help susie get a big A!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, dcraves@american.edu, seraves@american.edu,
        ne-raves@umdd.umd.edu, socal-raves@ucsd.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9404251644.A5875-0100000@sutro>
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hey all i am doing a paper on virtual communities..and wanted to get some 
thought from  you guys about netravers/cybertribe! please send your 
replies back to me so not to bother the lists...(:...thanx susie (:

How has recieving a a weekly rave calender influenced your raving?

Do you normally read all of your list mail?

Do you ever go to list gatherings/netravers/cybertribe parties/raves?

If yes, are they different in anyways?

What does it mean to you to be a net raver/cybertriber?

Has the net influenced raves or have raves influenced the net? explain...

Have you ever met other netravers/cybertribers? (which term do you prefer?)

Do you ever wear anything that marks the fact that you are a 
netraver/cybertriber? (ie badges, pins?) Why or why not?

Do you ever vrave? if yes does what does it add to your experience on the 
net?  Have you ever vraved from a party/rave or been on vrave while 
someone from a party was logged in? if yes explain

Are they any terms,acronyms,vocabulary about raves that were 
created by your list?  If yes what are they?

DDo you feel more or less of a part of your local rave community because 
you are on the net?

Do people refer to you by your net name/address or your real name?

Feel free to enlighten me on anything i might have missed...any anadotes 
or stories would be wonderfully welcomed!...thanx...susie (:


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 16:49:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 16:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Everett Swiger <scottie@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: MESS @ Chateau
To: sfraves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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Hi folks,

The members of Mother Earth Sound System are doin' it indoors:

CHATEAUPIA
Saturday, April 30
10 pm -> ?

Brad, Josh, Scottie, Stonie
$3

At Le Chateau
2545 Hillegass @ Parker, Berkeley

DIRECTIONS:

Take I-80 to Berkeley
Exit University Ave.
Follow University towards the hills, and turn RIGHT on Shattuck Ave.
Take Shattuck Ave. to Dwight and make a LEFT
Take Dwight up past Telegraph, and make a RIGHT on Hillegass
Chateau is at the end of Hillegass, a big white house on the left

Looking forward to seeing all you there!

(for clarification, this party is called "Chateaupia" rather than "Mother 
Earth Sound System" because this is not a free outdoor MESS party, but an 
indoor house party, to profit the co-op where it is being held, and to 
give us some money to invest in our sound system - after all, 3 bucks 
aint a whole lot to ask for at least 6 solid hours of good music and 
fellowship! :)

If you need any more info, feel free to call me at (510) 549-6233,
or Whitsitt at (510) 549-6240.

Peace + respect,
scottie

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 17:08:32 1994
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994   15:49 -0800 (PST)
From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
To: adam@mtv.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Radio Show
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

In-Reply-To: lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com -- 04/25/94 08:51

hi adam,
i have a few things to say. please don't take this as a flame. i just don't
see how rave music fits in with the whole music establishment . i mean ,
the goal of establishment music, a BUSINESS really,
is to move a product, mass ,popular music. rave musick is about being
underground ( NOT alternative). 'alternative' music, which MTV does really
well, is now part of the establishment - we can ( and probably should )
argue about this . there are 'alternative' raves, but i hope there will be
some part of it which stays underground. and i don't think this is elitist.
it is about having the proper 'knowledge', vibe , to let go and connect
with other folx without goals like being 'cool', 'hip', 'with-it'. i hope
mtv continues its alternative musick, since it exposes many people to
really new musick which it would not be heard otherwise. i give
mtv all the  credit to bringing 'alternative' music into the mainstream.
i just hope underground musick stays there.  so maybe mtv can be a gateway
to the undeground, without  trying to bring it 'above ground'.
 curious for any comments you might have.
take care/shalom/acid+bass
ovid

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 18:22:29 1994
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From: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
Message-Id: <199404260104.SAA23813@netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: AWESOME NEWS
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


	if you haven't heard, as of october 1st the Presidio becomes

			a park


	which means tons of new gorgeous space for our city

	and tons more space for small renegade parties.


From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 18:31:05 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 18:30:57 -0700
In-Reply-To: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
       "AWESOME NEWS" (Apr 25,  6:04pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: AWESOME NEWS
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

On Apr 25,  6:04pm, Resonate boomed:
} 	if you haven't heard, as of october 1st the Presidio becomes
} 
} 			a park
} 
} 	which means tons of new gorgeous space for our city
} 	and tons more space for small renegade parties.

Except, it's going to become a *National* park, which means we'll be
able to party there about as well as we could expect to be able to
party at Yosemite.  Additionally, in a dangerous precedent, the
Department of Interior is determined to see that the park "pays for
itself", which is in direct violation of the spirit of the national
park system, and which means companies and institutions will be filling
up the empty offices.  Oh well.  Some interesting political maneuvering
is going down with PG&E and the Presidio - the Bay Guardian has been
following the issue pretty closely, for further reading.

	Brian



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 20:01:14 1994
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To: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee)
Subject: Re: No rest for the Wicked
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>The party was going to be at 1015? Really? But isn`t Martini's
>The WICKED party was
>your standard sweaty e-pit type WICKED, in the basement, hot,
>smokey,steamy, sexy and killer music.  When I got there at about 1:00,
>Bones was going off on the decks, warming the crowd up (as if it needed
>it).  I ran into jsl and complained to him about the temperature in the
>basement, he made a very prophetic statement when he said something
>like "It don't matter, the true believers will all be down there before
>the night is over"

I gotta agree with you there Geoff, it was a REAL WICKED in every sense.
It was held in their old watering hole, there was alot of good energy, and
the cracker-jack crew was in full force.  It was a wonderful site!  I am
also amazed at the diverse crowd WICKED seems to be gettin of late.  People
groove to get down at WICKED's which is why it remians one of my favorite
parties.  Nice, sweaty, hot, sensual, it was ALL THAT.  Fucka full moon,
I'm all about the REAL madness!

>Markie took control around 3:00, and proceeded to
>slam it.

As everyone knows, I admire Markie's talents.  However, for some reason he
was slow to warm up, and he seemed to be holdin' back quite a bit.  I have
heard Markie get on the decks and blow-the-doors off!  He usually takes no
more than 30 minutes to get in that "pocket".  But for some reason, and I
can't tell you why, I felt as though he was being restrained, and waas
holding back the goods.  The set was, as usual, BRILLIANT, but it did not
reorganize my brain like he normally does.  Coulda been me, but after
listening to Markie for years now, I could tell he did not pull out all of
the stops.  I guess even DJ's have a conscience :)

>It was hot and smokey which seriously interfears with my
>ability to dance, but I went for it anyway, as I looked around, I saw a
>lot of "old-skool" in the house, people I haven't seen in months, some
>of the Martini's crowd would filter in, most couldn't stand the heat
>and left but a few remained... to have their minds blown open.  I must
>say that the smile factor was high but the craker-jack factor was even
>higher (can I get a witness jsl? )  Markie had muthafuckers jumpin and
>screamin and carrying on in 100 deg. heat.

I dunno wassup wit Markie!  That man is a danger on the decks, and should
rightly be arrested for the lunacy he causes people to engage in!  When
Markie spins, people like, go on autopilot.  He releases something in
people that gets them wilder, wilder, and wilder.  Bodies begin to mesh,
push & pull.  People go fucking OFF!  It is a truly incredible site to see!
Markie has undoubtedly set a new standrd for what I would call excellent
spinning!  He ALWYAS comes out with differnt ways to do the do.  And he is
a maniac when he totally let's loose.  Even on this night, which I would
characterize by his spinning as restrained, it was enough to get
muthafuka's OFF!  Incredible!!!

>Anyway by 4:30 am the place was
>"out of control" when I saw Jeno push through the crown and open his
>crates, jsl and I looked at each other, we both knew what was about to
>happen, I said "Aw shit, here we go", Jeno was _relentless_ it is
>definitely the best set I've heard him play all summer, (I hear he's
>been practicing and it shows) I had a feeling that he would have to
>bust it open _way_ past Markie and I'm glad Markie set the marker way
>up high so he really had to go for it, and go for it he did!

I gotta say, although I have heard the ups-and-downs of the Master (as he
is called by other DJ's), I felt his set was the most restrained.  Note, I
left @ 5:30 thereabouts, so I did not hear the entire thing.  But after the
10th song I easily recognized, and the super long mixesx of old tunes, I
was not impressed.  I understand that he really fucked it up in the end.
But before I left, people had started to leave the dance floor.  It had to
be the ONLY time I had seen Jeno clear a floor somehwat.  But then again,
it coulda been the weaklings who left, and allowed the headstrong to go
off.  I dunno, I felt as though he coulda done alot better in his set.  I
look forward to the next Wicked to see how he does.  This was an aberration
for Jeno, I look forward to his next session.

>Even in
>the heat, "old-skool" was in the back tranced out, doing flips, twirls,
>summersaults,and floor dives :) It was so intense that some folks
>couldn't take it any more and had to take their asses home :) (Can I
>get another witness jsl? :).  But in the end John you were right the
>true believers did wind up in that basement in the morning.

I know I HAD to take my sorry ass home!  After listening too all those
grooves by Markie, my head was impatient for more restrcuturing excersizes.
I went home, smoked a fatty, and got where I needed to be.  I know Jeno
won't let me down next time!

If you are hard-core IMO, Wicked is the place to be.  Basement, warehouse,
anywhere.  As long as they keep that sweaty style that is theirs, it will
be a party I will eagerly attend. I am not interested in the outdoors, I am
interested in the FUNK.  Wicked has got dat!

>
>Oh I forgot about my episode with Sgt.Buchard, the one man raver hating
>task force.  This guy has been hassling south of market clubs for the
>last year or so, he really has it in for WICKED, I'm upstairs at the moment
>trying to deal with a kid that has taken one hit too many and is screaming
>"help me, sombody help me" at the top of his lungs.

I did not see this incident (a VERY good example of a tweeker).  I was to
busy hugging, kissing, loving the world when this went on.  I had a couple
of friends there with me since we were watching out for each other (too
messed up to be alone ;).  In any case Tami took care of me, getting me
water and the like, really cool person (another one of the SJ posse) (It
seems the coolest of cool people come from SJ.  It has GOTTA be the
freindliest bunch of partiers I have met in my travels.  These folx will
put you up, smoke you out, and just watch out for you as if you were their
own.  They are genuine and REAL.  They are also the biggest bunch of
cracker-jacks I have met, but the shit is under control!  SJ has it goin'
on!  Right ON!!!).  Sgt Asshole has a problem, I think he works too much.

Wicked gets my undisputed ;) ALL THAT <- (I plan on using this until its
really old hee hee) AWARD.  With the dancing, music, sensuality, and
straight-up cracker-jackin' I doubt I will ever miss one of their parties.
I do hope that they feature an SF local every now and then, instead of one
of the English posse (c'mon guys, Josh, James, Buck are all GREAT.  Better
than Garth or Thomas.  Give 'em some respect, and give 'em their due.  They
are just a few of the pioneers here, so get them on baord every once in
awhile.  It's called "giving back some".  Too much posse!).

CYA (esp GeoffW) at the next Wicked!

Oh yeah, I gotta say this:  I am GLAD that I'm married.  If I weren't I
would be in hella trouble at Wicked!!!!  DAMN!!!!


Audi 5 & stayin' alive,
John

=================================================================
                 Ain't no future in your frontin'
=================================================================
             --PGP Public key available upon request--
Best  : jsl@netcom.com
other : John_Lee.DPI@notes.worldcom.com
=================================================================



From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 20:45:12 1994
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From: Robert Benjamin <vaguy@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199404260345.UAA13100@elaine40.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: ride to Full Moon
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 20:45:05 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Hey there, fellow sfravers
	
	Just wondering, if anyone is headed to the Full Moon tonight, and could possibly give me a ride, there and back.  I'm at Stanford, near Palo Alto.  If you can help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it.  Call me or email me  ASAP!
							Bobby

vaguy@leland.stanford.edu
(415)497-6438
				Thanks!:)

From sfraves-owner  Mon Apr 25 23:36:38 1994
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From: tazzleberry <tess@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: AWESOME NEWS
To: Brian Behlendorf <bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu>
Cc: analog resonate <resonate@netcom.com>, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404260130.SAA12291@soda.berkeley.edu>
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planet 6 sound 


On Mon, 25 Apr 1994, Brian Behlendorf wrote:

> On Apr 25,  6:04pm, Resonate boomed:
> } 	if you haven't heard, as of october 1st the Presidio becomes
> } 
> } 			a park
> } 
> } 	which means tons of new gorgeous space for our city
> } 	and tons more space for small renegade parties.
> 
> Except, it's going to become a *National* park, which means we'll be
> able to party there about as well as we could expect to be able to
> party at Yosemite.  Additionally, in a dangerous precedent, the
> Department of Interior is determined to see that the park "pays for
> itself", which is in direct violation of the spirit of the national
> park system, and which means companies and institutions will be filling
> up the empty offices.  Oh well.  Some interesting political maneuvering
> is going down with PG&E and the Presidio - the Bay Guardian has been
> following the issue pretty closely, for further reading.
> 
> 	Brian
> 
      so let's do it NOW while everybodys CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!> 
> 

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 00:11:50 1994
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From: Sun Kim <sunkim@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Why was FMR moved to Tuesday night?
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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Why was FMR moved to Tuesday night?


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 00:13:01 1994
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From: rocky mullin <caliban@soda.berkeley.edu>
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To: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, resonate@netcom.com,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: AWESOME NEWS
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	       
	       brian, sounds like lots of the uc system.


	From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Mon Apr 25 18:33:01 1994
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	From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
	Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 18:30:57 -0700
	In-Reply-To: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
	       "AWESOME NEWS" (Apr 25,  6:04pm)
	X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
	To: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
	Subject: Re: AWESOME NEWS
	Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
	
	On Apr 25,  6:04pm, Resonate boomed:
	} 	if you haven't heard, as of october 1st the Presidio becomes
	} 
	} 			a park
	} 
	} 	which means tons of new gorgeous space for our city
	} 	and tons more space for small renegade parties.
	
	Except, it's going to become a *National* park, which means we'll be
	able to party there about as well as we could expect to be able to
	party at Yosemite.  Additionally, in a dangerous precedent, the
	Department of Interior is determined to see that the park "pays for
	itself", which is in direct violation of the spirit of the national
	park system, and which means companies and institutions will be filling
	up the empty offices.  Oh well.  Some interesting political maneuvering
	is going down with PG&E and the Presidio - the Bay Guardian has been
	following the issue pretty closely, for further reading.
	
		Brian
	
	
	

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 02:33:48 1994
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From: Koenig Feurio  <payn@scf.usc.edu>
Message-Id: <199404260933.CAA23496@phakt.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: grand canyon
To: kblohm@cln.etc.bc.ca (Kathleen Blohm)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 02:33:36 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: idm@techno.Stanford.EDU (IDM), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFRaves list),
        socal-raves@ucsd.edu (SoCal Raves list)
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Kathleen Blohm recently asked on idm:

> What is up with the grand canyon this summer(august?)...is this for real,
> if so who's performing? 

There's been discussion of this on both idm and sfraves. The actual
facts seem to be that the "zippies" will not be at the rainbow gathering
and the rainbows will not be at the canyon anyway. However, there may be
something there that was just horribly misreported in Wired.

Personally, I think that if there isn't something happening there, someone
ought to think about planning something. Enough people have heard about
the week-long rave at the start of August that if one is actually held,
it should be easy to get the word out and bring in thousands of people
from all over the place....


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 08:25:51 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 11:22:49 EDT
Subject: Wed.-Motion-Simon
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Sfravers,

Ravers in South Bay unite! SIMON  will be at MOTION in San Jose. 400 S. !st
Street. With Dj Loren. 9:00 to 2:00am

(408)-236-3732--New Info line.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 09:01:49 1994
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From: brycer@netcom.com (Bryce Ryan)
Message-Id: <199404261602.JAA29642@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: grand canyon
To: pashdown@xmission.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 09:02:54 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: idm@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, socal-raves@ucsd.edu
In-Reply-To: <9404261312.AA04227@xmission.com> from "Pete Ashdown" at Apr 26, 94 07:12:29 am
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My mailer says that Pete Ashdown said:
> 
> Well kids, I know that at least I will be out in the desert for at least one
> weekend in August.  If you don't think its worth the drive, just ask the
> people who came from Cali last year.
> 
Hear,hear! as one "who came from Cali" i can attest to how wonderful Pete's
desert raves are.  Be there! Aloha.
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@netcom.com-----

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 09:43:23 1994
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From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
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To: Sun Kim <sunkim@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Cc: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Why was FMR moved to Tuesday night?
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Sun Kim writes:
 > 
 > Why was FMR moved to Tuesday night?

Rain?

Maybe because Wednesday is a national federal holiday?

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 11:14:40 1994
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From: Ben Sims <sunshine@halcyon.com>
Subject: inner-peace.
To: nw raves <nw-raves@wimsey.bc.ca>
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
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watch for signs of peace.  the hearts of a great many have already been 
exposed to it and it seems likely that we could find our soceity 
experiencing it in epidemic proportions, which then, of course, could 
pose a serious threat to what has up to now seemed a fairly stable 
condition of conflict in the world!

some signs and symptoms of inner peace:
	1. tendency to think and act spontaneously rather than from fears 
based on past experiences.
	2. an unmistakable ability to enjoy each moment.
	3. loss of interest in judging other people.
	4. loss of interest in judging self.
	5. loss of interest in inerpreting actions of others.
	6. loss of interest in conflict.
	7. loss of ablility to worry.  (this is a very serious symptom)
	8. frequent, overwhelming episodes of appreciation.
	9. contented feeling of connectedness with others and nature.
	10. frequent attacks of smiling through the eyes from the heart.
	11. increasing tendency to let things happen rather than make 
them happen.
	12. increase susceptibility to love extended by others as well as 
the uncontrollable urge to extend it.

	warning:
if you have all or even most of the above symptoms, please be advised 
that your condition of PEACE may be so far advanced as to not be 
curable!  if you are exposed to anyone exhibiting several of these 
symptoms , remain exposed only at your own risk. this condition of PEACE 
is probably in its' infectious stage.

-Saskia Davis

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 11:47:53 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404261849.LAA19424@netcom.com>
Subject: South Bay Lunch
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 11:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
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 Howdy! I'm going to try to hold this week's South Bay Lunch
tomorrow in Greer Park at 12:15 PM ( whatta compromiser! )
 This time I'll be bringing a CD/cassette/AM/FM portable ,
so bring some music media with you . Hopefully , it'll be dry
enough to sit on the grass ... 
				Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a quick reminder to let everyone know about
tomorrow's SFR South Bay Lunch ...

When: Wednesday  
Time: 12.15 PM to ? 
Where: Greer Park, Palo Alto

Directions:

* From 101 (South or North) take the Oregon Expressway Exit
  Northbound: Past San Antonio Road 
  Southbound: Past University Avenue 

* Left at the first signal - W. Bayshore
  (it's a frontage road that takes you south again)

* Follow this road approx. 1/4 mile (pass apartment complexes on right)
  
* You will see the park on your right hand side. Turn into the first 
  driveway on your right.

* We'll meet on the grassy knoll , behind the round baseball fence.
  Next to the restrooms and ball courts.

Bring lunch, toys, yourselves!





From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 11:59:21 1994
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From: robertj308@aol.com
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Message-Id: <9404261456.tn10757@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 14:56:32 EDT
Subject: Ladle Red Raving Hut-(Humor)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Ladle Red Raving Hut--or Answer to Geek Wonk

The Geek/Wonk Alert---Gee, I haven't written anything in days because I've
been trying to go through my dictionary to find the meaning of such words as
Modula-2, Comal, Mugwumps, Smtp, Algol-w. or Foo-bar. Why aren't any of these
words in the dictionary?   I wonder, If a word isn't in the dictionary, does
it exist? Does it have a right to exist? Now I ask you, if you e-mail a
message to a computer in a forest, and there is no one there to read it, does
the e-mail exist? The computer? The E-mailer? 

Since I am interested in the linguistic exclusivity associated with increased
technological specialization, I've noticed that Sfraves is developing certain
linguistic idioms which might run counter to our notions of openness and full
frontal acceptance, i.e., IMHO, BTW, and the ever ubiquitous "X." If we
continue this "thread" I imagine that one day our computer screens will look
something like the following; thus precluding any need for secrecy, or
private  access codes. Little Rave Riding Hood:

" Wants pawn-term, dare worsted ladle rave gull how lift wetter murder inner
ladle cardage honor itch offer lodge dock florist. Disk ladle rave gull
orphan worry ladle rave cluck,  dock shows, wetter putty ladle rave hut end
fur disk raisin pimple caulder "Ladle Rave Rotten Hut" 

Wan moaning Rave Rotten Huts murder colder inset Ladle Rave Rotten Hut heresy
ladle basking winsome burden barter end shirker pot cocklers. Tick disk ladle
basking tudor Isaid hows offer groin murder how lifts honor udder site offer
florist. Shaker lake, dun stopper laundry wrote, end yonder nor sorghum
stenches dun stopper torque wet SFRAVERS."

Robertj............MRP
Robert

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 12:08:18 1994
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From: trash@netcom.com (Frances Bortz)
Message-Id: <199404261909.MAA26674@netcom.com>
Subject: Intelligent Lighting Demo
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 12:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: caliban@soda.berkeley.edu
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This Friday, April 29th., Impact Lighting will be premiering our new 
Intelligent Lighting Demo at our showroom at ONE MISSISSIPPI St. in San 
Francisco ( the cross is 16th. St) It will run continuously from Noon to 
3 P.M. Anyone interested in Moving Lights and Midi Control , or anyone 
just interested :-), is welcome to stop by. You may ask for me, Lady 
Trash, ( I am the one on crutches %-) and I programmed the show. This is 
the same demo posted by Rocky at an earlier date. So come by if you can!
Peace and Love Lady Trash
 (please don't call me Frances as I believe it 
will be posted under that name - this is my first post to sfraves)

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 13:09:29 1994
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From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
To: sunshine@halcyon.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: inner-peace.
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

In-Reply-To: sunshine@halcyon.com -- 04/26/94 11:31

dear sunshine,
i was wandering what was happening to me! now i know. i certainly had
a massive 'attack' of love this past weekend, and love it ! certainly,
receiving love and sending love seems so much easier with more love
around. keep spreading it, like you are. and i think you were asking
for a witness. i am here , jb.
love/shalom/acid+bass
ovid

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 13:41:24 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: The FMR will happen tonight
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU



	Keep a look out for the FMR tonight.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 15:33:56 1994
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From: carmela@umich.edu
To: sf-raves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: server info
Cc: carmela@umich.edu
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hey now

        could someone  please tell what the name of the server for
sfraves is? and also, any any info on other lists out thataway would be
greatly appreciated...

thanks
plur :)
sunshyne



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 17:52:52 1994
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From: cvoigt@flute.aix.calpoly.edu
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Subject: Re: Ladle Red Raving Hut-(Humor)
To: robertj308@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 17:53:26 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9404261456.tn10757@aol.com> from "robertj308@aol.com" at Apr 26, 94 02:56:32 pm
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howdy

first: the dictionary is a historical system.  it does not deal with the
present use of a word ( new meaning of an older word or a new word
altogether ).  therefore, every word in existence was in use before that
word was written into the dictionary.

second: cyber-type-cultures have little respect for vowels, CAPITAL
letters, and words that are a) completly written out b)spelled
"correctly" (back to the spellings of the past, the dictionary) rather
than phonetically (s/b fonetikly) c) used often but not abbreviated,
IMHO

knowing your background here is a humourous relpy to your post.

WP in SC w/b game on the check-out 2

  ;)

Cya
CHE



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 18:22:33 1994
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From: Robert Benjamin <vaguy@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199404270122.SAA07478@elaine40.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Full Moon
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 18:22:33 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Does anyone know if the Full Moon Rave is tonight?
		If so, where is it?
			And finally, if anyone is going there from the Stanford campus area, could you possibly give me a ride there and back?
			Give me a call or email me:
				vaguy@leland.stanford.edu
				(415)497-6438
			


						Bobby B.

From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 21:18:47 1994
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Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 21:18:46 -0800
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From: matts@teleport.com (Matt Stevens)
Subject: What a weekend!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I just wanted to tell everyone what a great time I had this weekend, and
put things into perspective about the great scene you have.

I drove down from Portland on Friday to stay with Jeno over the weekend and
prepare for a Monday interview.  I arrived Saturday evening and went out to
dinner with Jeno and Stephanie.  After dinner we went back a napped before
going to Organic.

Now here's where my bit of perspective comes in...  I agree that $20 is a
lot to pay, but as Ethan pointed out, it really was a quality show.  The
thing that I envy about your scene is that you have CHOICES, up here in
Portland we usually have one event per night if we're lucky.  The fact is;
yes Organic cost a bit of money, but it wasn't the only game in town.  So
remember what it's like elsewhere before you complain about your plethora
of opportunities.

Now back to our story :)  Organic was great!  The visuals were wonderful,
and Jeno was feeling better after resting.  Those of you who heard him
Friday heard the effects of a week of moving piled on top of little sleep. 
But Saturday he went off!  The problems with the sound system were
annoying, but Jeno was his usual quiet self and just accepted it and
overcame it.  The morning ended well with Markie playing some fun stuff, he
wasn't at his best, but it's still always a pleasure to here him spin. 
After breakfast and another nap (lot's of naps, little sleep this weekend) 
it was off to Light-n-Up.  I thought Jeno played well Sat. night, but his
the start of his set on Sun. just blew me away.  You guys are really lucky
to have him.  I wanted to stay for the Full Moon, but time ran out and work
(or rather bills payed by work) called me back north.

I hope I get a chance to meet more of you next time I'm down.  The marathon
nature of my visit precluded any advance planning.  Hope everyone who
enjoyed themselves this weekend!  And I just want to thank Jeno for letting
me impose upon him for the weekend.
--
matts



From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 22:24:19 1994
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From: Andrew Monko <n9010387@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Reply-To: Andrew Monko <n9010387@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Radio Show
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On Mon, 25 Apr 1994 humphrey@unity.ncsu.edu wrote:

> i agree with laura about hearing techno music in places other that rave 
> related. if techno were played in other places, and it's as good as we 
> know it is, more people will like it. that will mean more possibilities 
> for 'ravers' to have fun with the rest of society. 
> 
> while i sort of like the fact that most of the music i listen to, most 
> people i know have never heard of and will never hear, it would be nice 
> to be able to buy music at a store in the same town i live in and not 
> have to mail order everything. it would be nice to go to the park with 
> friends and bring a boom box and play some music that my friends have 
> heard of before and like. it would be nice to go more events with the 
> rest of my friends who have not been introduced to 'rave music' and not 
> have it be at a rave. 
> 
> a lot of my friends don't live the same scedule and aren't willing to stay
> up all night. i'd still like for them to get a chance to listen to good
> music. 
> 
> i know there are also some drawbacks to rave music becoming more popular, 
> like exploitation of the scene and capitolism ruining some aspects. 
> aren't we strong enough to overcome that though? 
> 
> actually, i'm not certain what the outcome will be when rave and rave 
> associated music reaches more mainstream bandwiths. i think it is bound 
> to happen though, and we should think about it so that we can hopefully 
> guide it and let it grow in to something good. can we change the world 
> with music? that seems to be a reacurring cycling philosophy with 
> sub-cultures around the world. maybe this is it? maybe it can happen? 
> we'll see. i know i'm gonna try my hardest.
> 
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> //////////  john     humphrey@unity.ncsu.edu ///////
> /////////  rainbow   john_humphrey@ncsu.edu ///////
> ////////  humphrey   pgp key upon request  ///////
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////

John,

	Sorry to have to drop some cynicism your way...but:  you speak of
wondering what it would be like if rave became more mainstream and more
people beyond the scene became involved.  Well, what was 1992?  This was
the year that the underground sound DID enter the mainstream, and
unfortunately (in my opinion), like any on the fringes artistic movement,
it resulted in a sad dissolution to where going to a rave was (literally)
like going to a fucking frat party--meaning jock-o's w/o shirts, their
perfect tan girlfriends, and an egotistical-top40danceclub-attitude that
completely ruined the warm, postive vibe.  In addition, corporate rave
promoters became involved, major labels became involved, and I thought for
certain the scene was dead for ever (on a national scale).  Luckily, the
hardcores went back underground to escape (I'm talking Northwest here, but
before you guys dis me, I'm sure this is applicable to other areas of the
west coast and country...), and speaking for Seattle, there is once again
a close-knit, positive vibe going on.  
	Overcoming exploitation?  Look at what happened to the grunge scene...
It became (and still is) SO mainstream that Kurt Cobain reached the
frustation point to where he simply told the macho-asshole types to STOP
buying and supporting their music...these are the same mall-shopping
fucks that make me bloody ashamed I have something in common with with
them when they drive by in their BMW's blasting Orbital going "WOOOOOOOOO!"
	Before the rave-techno thing re-emerges to the mainstream, which
it invevitably, I agree, will, we again have something temporarily special.
Yeah, I know I shoudn't be such an elitist, but there are precious few
havens from our americanized, commericialized, and homogenized society and
culture that I cannot help but be vehemently defensive (and cynical) about
this topic.  

	It is my belief that the drawbacks you speak of DO outweigh the
advantages of the scene remaining less than conspicious.

		A northwest perspective,

			>andrew<



Do you recognize the sound, the sound of the underground?

							Irr.Force/Morris


From sfraves-owner  Tue Apr 26 23:06:48 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!aol.com!robertj308@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Ladle Red Raving Hut-(Humor)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

" Wants pawn-term, dare worsted ladle rave gull how lift wetter murder inner
ladle cardage honor itch offer lodge dock florist. Disk ladle rave gull
orphan worry ladle rave cluck,  dock shows, wetter putty ladle rave hut end
fur disk raisin pimple caulder "Ladle Rave Rotten Hut"

Wan moaning Rave Rotten Huts murder colder inset Ladle Rave Rotten Hut heresy
ladle basking winsome burden barter end shirker pot cocklers. Tick disk ladle
basking tudor Isaid hows offer groin murder how lifts honor udder site offer
florist. Shaker lake, dun stopper laundry wrote, end yonder nor sorghum
stenches dun stopper torque wet SFRAVERS."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that's the evolution of language for ya.

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 00:15:35 1994
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Subject: Soundsystems and DJs: FMR at BDB!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 0:10:46 PDT
From: William Penna <wpenna@cruzio.com>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Message-Id:  <9404270010.ab00339@cruzio.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

who brought us Ritual of Spring
at Bonny Doon Beach on March 20
invite one and all to bring DJs
and Sound to BDB tonight!
 
408.462-5235


-- 


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 00:40:08 1994
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From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404270738.AAA21016@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, wpenna@cruzio.com
Subject: Re: Soundsystems and DJs: FMR at BDB!
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


> From SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU Wed Apr 27 00:15:23 1994
> Return-Path: <SFRaves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU>
> Subject: Soundsystems and DJs: FMR at BDB!
> To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 0:10:46 PDT
> From: William Penna <wpenna@cruzio.com>
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
> Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU
> Content-Length: 144
> X-Lines: 10
> Status: RO
> 
> who brought us Ritual of Spring
> at Bonny Doon Beach on March 20
> invite one and all to bring DJs
> and Sound to BDB tonight!
>  
> 408.462-5235
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
>

 
I just talked to this person and he doesn't want people 
to call this number.



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 00:47:08 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 00:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Seth Joshua Horvitz <acid23@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Christian techno
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Relating to the recent "Jesus raves" thread, there's a CD at KALX by the 
name of "Dance House Children", a full-length album of Christian techno.  
It's really hilarious.  By today's standards, the music is pretty bad (I 
think it came out in '91 or so), but the samples are funny as hell.  

In the liner notes, it talks about how they support good, pure, family 
values, along with a bunch of other right wing ideals.  They end by 
saying something like, "we will continue to use whatever kind of music 
we think is popular to spread our message to young people." That's not 
exactly it, but something very similar.  It's interesting to see techno 
being used as a purely functional means of spreading the News...  

//////////{{{{{{{{{{((((((((([[[[[[[[232]]]]]]]])))))))))))}}}}}}}}}}\\\\\\\\\\

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 01:52:10 1994
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From: tazzleberry <tess@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: grand canyon
To: Koenig Feurio <payn@chaph.usc.edu>
Cc: Kathleen Blohm <kblohm@cln.etc.bc.ca>, IDM <idm@techno.Stanford.EDU>,
        SFRaves list <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>,
        SoCal Raves list <socal-raves@ucsd.edu>
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planet 6 sound 


On Tue, 26 Apr 1994, Koenig Feurio wrote:

> Kathleen Blohm recently asked on idm:
> 
> > What is up with the grand canyon this summer(august?)...is this for real,
> > if so who's performing? 
> 
> There's been discussion of this on both idm and sfraves. The actual
> facts seem to be that the "zippies" will not be at the rainbow gathering
> and the rainbows will not be at the canyon anyway. However, there may be
> something there that was just horribly misreported in Wired.
> 
> Personally, I think that if there isn't something happening there, someone
> ought to think about planning something. Enough people have heard about
> the week-long rave at the start of August that if one is actually held,
> it should be easy to get the word out and bring in thousands of people
> from all over the place....
> 
> 
                         ive been hearing about this gathering for about 
two years now.a lot of different people have mentioned it describing 
vaious different variables , but it's always the same time and the same 
area.it's also believed to tie in with hopi and mayan prophesy.we're 
going........

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 03:29:13 1994
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From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404271029.DAA00188@well.sf.ca.us>
To: payn@chaph.usc.edu, tess@ocf.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: grand canyon
Cc: <idm@techno.Stanford.EDU>, <kblohm@cln.etc.bc.ca>,
        <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>, <socal-raves@ucsd.edu>,
        Blohm@ocf.berkeley.edu, IDM@ocf.berkeley.edu,
        Kathleen@ocf.berkeley.edu, Raves@ocf.berkeley.edu,
        SFRaves@ocf.berkeley.edu, SoCal@ocf.berkeley.edu,
        list@ocf.berkeley.edu
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>>>it's also believed to tie in with hopi and mayan prophesy.we're 
going........

how come w/ such musings the hopi & mayan elders, the ones whose actual
charge is to interpret these prophecies, never seem to getting around to
support such events.  more arguelles crap?  well-meaning new-age
dilletantes?  

please, have your own visions, interpret the prophecies that move inside
you, and stop claiming legitimacy from stuff you know little about.  if it's
a true prophecy, you will feel it grow inside you.  if some ancient
tradition needs your help or interpreetation, believe me, they'll contact
you themselves.

peace anyway,
alpha-10

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 10:15:29 1994
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From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: grand canyon
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why doesn't some luminary out there try cross-posting this thang over to
  the uk-raves list and see if anyone nibbles?

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 10:30:50 1994
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From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad@us.oracle.com>
To: n9010387@henson.cc.wwu.edu
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: Andrew Monko's message of Tue, 26 Apr 1994 22:05:32 -0700 (PDT) <Pine.3.07.9404262038.A389-d100000@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Radio Show
Reply-To: boccibob%groovy@us.oracle.com
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Andrew Monko:

>it resulted in a sad dissolution to where going to a rave was (literally)
>like going to a fucking frat party--meaning jock-o's w/o shirts, their
>perfect tan girlfriends, and an egotistical-top40danceclub-attitude that
>completely ruined the warm, postive vibe.  In addition, corporate rave

I just can't let this slide.  For me, my experiences in my fraternity
were overwhelmingly positive.  I realize that this is not true for
many people at many universities, but this depends on the attitude of
the school and the members of the house(s) --- for example, the U of
Washington fraternity system makes me positively ill.

I just feel compelled to say that this stereotype is just that, a
stereotype, and if you were talking about skin color or religion or
ancestry, people would call you on it for being way out of line.

Bob "yes, I was a frat-boy, and never had a perfect tan girlfriend,
where do you sign up for one?" 



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 13:22:33 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>how come w/ such musings the hopi & mayan elders, the ones whose
>actual charge is to interpret these prophecies, never seem to
>getting around to support such events.  more arguelles crap?  
>well-meaning new-age dilletantes?  

>please, have your own visions, interpret the prophecies that 
>move inside you, and stop claiming legitimacy from stuff you 
>know little about.  if it's a true prophecy, you will feel it
>grow inside you.  if some ancient tradition needs your help or
>interpreetation, believe me, they'll contact you themselves.

>peace anyway,
>alpha-10

From other similar posts of your Randy/alpha-10 I know that your
an avid defender of Native American rights and culture and I 
highly respect that. But how do you know the previous poster
doesn't know about the culture or that hopi elders won't be invited
to this Grand Canyon thing?  I also think it's O.K. to speculate
when you know little as long as what you do know isn't mis-
information that your helping spread.

Culturaly/historicly, the person who has visions or prophecies
isn't always the interperater of them and I think anyones'
interpritations can be right/wrong, valid/invalid.

Not that you said this but, I also want to point out that I don't
think non-Native American people shouldn't study or speculate any
facet of the culture.  That's not exploitation. I don't go around
telling non-European Wiccans that they're stealing from my culture.
I didn't mind, infact enjoyed, seeing a Japanese-American wearing
a kilt and dancing Scottish rheels at last years Solano Stroll.
One of my great-great-great grandmothers was full- blood Cherokee
and an other great-great-great grandparent on the other family side
was apparently full-blood Native American, probably also Cherokee
(not sure yet, family trees take LOTS of time and work).  Does this
mean, in accordance to the views of some, that I have 1/8 of a right
to enjoy or participate in Native American culture?

I do think Native American culture has and is being exploited by
certain new-agers but I don't think all new-agers using the culture
are exploiting it.  I've also read about, and I'm sure you probably
know much more about this than I, certain Native Americans exploiting
there own culture as well as I'm sure there are non Native Americans
who were taught accurate tradition by Native American elders.  Just
like my 1/2 black, 1/2 white Kung Fu teacher is better than many
chinese who teach/practice.  It would be a racist stereotype to
claim that people can only find merrit or practice facets of there
own culture and I don't see Native Americans as different from
anyone else except they happen to be the local exploited culture.

I would like to re-emphasize the part of your message that encourages
people to study or find out exactly what they're talking about before
spreading information.

Lastly, many Native Americans do need help, again something you
probably know way more about than I, and they haven't specificly
contacted me.  I think there is an open call for help from Native
Americans to anyone that can help.

And to tye this in with rave, does anyone know how this event
supposedly does tye in with hope/mayan prophecies or is that
BS that Alpha-10 and the rest of us have a right to be 
annoyed/angry with?

-Winston 

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 14:26:03 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 14:26:05 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404272126.AA00360@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Recent Thoughts
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Ethan speaks:
> First off Launch Pad:
> Really sorry this one didn't happen as planned (a first for us!) but my
> take on the situation (and others, though not all involved) was that rain
> was an easy possibility in addition to which the wind was positively
> howling and the air temp was the coldest I've felt since winter proper.

I agreed (and was somewhat relieved) with this decision.  Although I 
admire resiliency in the face of adversity, I think the days are over
where a lot of people will go through *anything* to attend and stay
at a party, even one thrown by friends.  Outdoor parties work best when
we can be in a certain amount of harmony with the elements - good call.   

> Organic:
>[...] I decided that, like it or not, I'd fallen
> prey to the exact cliquishness, posseishness, us/them-ness that is really
> chopping this scene up. More often than not it's easy to dress this up and
> rationalize it, saying for instance; they're killing this scene by throwing
> $20 parties, by only ever playing *their* djs, by always using the same
> stupid nightclub, blah, blah, blah.

Almost all parties have *something* to offer, and I for one am glad that
there are different kinds to choose from.  Different parties for different
moods.  The one thing I learned, though, is that I am never be assured of
having a great time at *any* party, (except Park parties :-).  There
are too many variables involved, especially the ones in my own head.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with charging $20 for a 
party if people are willing to pay it.  At worst, it helps perpetuate a 
party atmosphere in this town and increases the demand for cheaper events
and renegades.  I'm actually glad to see some people make money at it. 
There's a lot of hard work involved in throwing *any* party.  Some people
will pay $7.50 to go to a 2 hour movie, so $20 for 6 hours of fun is not 
terribly unreasonable.  What might be missing from the scene here is 
regular parties that cuts across the tast barriers can enjoy.  Two years 
ago, the weekly GG Park parties and monthly ComeUnitys did a lot to bring 
people together.  Maybe Light-n Up will help fill this gap? 

> Well, yesterday while talking with
> Matt Fox (I'm gonna let that settle for a while before I post) 

That meeting left me with some very mixed feelings and I'm not quite ready
to express a suitable subset of them here yet either.  I probably should
mention that I recorded much of that meeting and if enough people express 
an interest, we can have it transcribed and made available.  I found the
meeting and subsequent discussions to be very intense.

> ...Religions are like lifeforms evolving
> thru time, christianity is one of these. Do we really want it gone, dead,
> extinct or, despite the fact the some of us detest it, does it nonetheless
> have some value to the world? I would ask the same about Organic or any of
> the 'biggies'. 

Not to open up the religion debate or anything, but Organic has never 
done much that can be considered detrimental to any specific groups of
people that I know of.  They haven't tried to have other parties shut down,
nor have they tried to take over the scene in any major way.  IMO, parties
like Organic help the scene much more than hurt it. 

> more often than not I found what I wanted there: smiles, warmth,
> massive sound, nifty visuals, release. People, maybe not us of late, are
> still finding these things at raves. Do we want them gone? I don't know.

As long as the music is good, the people friendly, and my participation
does not support of some obvious freedom-repressing power structure, I'll
go to these and other kinds of parties and hopefully continue to have 
some great times with them.  Here's one vote for Pluralism.  The cool thing
about our scene, is that small groups of people have the power to make a
real impact if they want to.   
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 15:01:09 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 16:00:32 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@WordPerfect.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Warning, please read.
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	I meant to post this earlier, but I haven't been at work for a
couple of days.  Let me first introduce myself.  My name is Luke, and
I'm a house and ambient DJ here in Salt Lake City, Utah.  I've been
fairly heavily involved in the scene around here for a while, and
I've helped a lot of organizers throw parties, and I've also spun at
a lot of the local parties as well as a couple out of state ones.
	A couple months ago, I was asked if I would like to spin at a party
in Salt Lake that was being thrown by an out of state promoter.  The
promoter's company was called E-Core, and he goes by Eagle.  His real
name is Elijah Lewis, and he lives in Denver.  The party I was to
spin at was called Orbital Dawn, and happened April 23rd.
	I've been communicating with Eagle over the internet, and when I
found out that only a few days before the event was to happen, there
was NO LOCATION lined up, I decided I would help him out and I
introduced him to my friend Greg.  Greg owns a non-profit performance
arts center called Playscool, and he and Eagle were able to work out
terms for the rental of the space, sound, and lights.
	Apparently Eagle has a way of doing business no matter which city he
goes to, where he expects a local promoter to cover all expenses, and
then pays them back at the end of the night.  Because of this Greg
had him contractually bound to pay the specified amount.

	Basically, what happened was this:

	A few months ago, Eagle had met with Blaine Lincoln over the
internet, who lives here locally in Layton, Utah.  Blaine had agreed
to do local promotion for the Orbital Dawn event, but this never
panned out.
	Blaine did not go to one party to hand out flyers and promote the
event.  The only thing he did was leave flyers at the door of
Playscool one night, and leave flyers at a local clothing store.
	Blaine had informed me that I would be spinning in the main dance
area.  A day before the party, I found out differently, that Eagle
had decided to bump me out of my slot in the main area into the
ambient room.  This was alright, however, as I do have a lot of
ambient music as well.
	The night of the event, there were 2 cancellations in the ambient
room, so I ended up going on early and playing for 4 hours instead of
the 1 or 2 that I was planning on.  This was alright as well.  I
didn't plan on charging Eagle anything extra for doing this, because
I basically spin just for the love of spinning.
	Due to Blaine's lack of promotion, and Eagle's lack of pre-planning,
only about 140 give or take a couple people showed up at the party,
and this was entirely too few to cover expenses.  I didn't find out
about this until the night was almost over due to the fact that I was
in the ambient room DJing most of the night.  The only way I found
out was when the 2 DJs that drove up with Eagle came up to me and
said goodbye.  At that moment, Eagle was seriously trying to walk out
the door without even paying me, or talking to me at all. I grabbed
Blaine and told him to go get Eagle, and he did.  Eagle informed me
that not only had he not made enough money to cover expenses, he
could not pay me any money at all, and had been unable to cover Greg
even the cost of the sound and lights that Greg had rented for his
event.
	My warning is this:  Don't trust this guy one bit.  He has no job,
nor financial backing to promote parties with, and relies on local
promoters to carry all the risk.  If it pans out and there is a good
turnout, he might actually pay the people that paid for the party,
but several times that night he actually tried to leave town with
what little money he had and not pay anyone.  I don't know exactly
how much he owes Greg, but it is in the hundreds of dollars, and he
hasn't paid me one cent for my time DJing, or for my time helping him
get this party together that wouldn't have even happened had I not
connected him with my friends.  Jon Bishop and Shaheen Shary played
there also, and they probably got paid since he has them booked to do
other parties in other states, but since we're just local promoters
and local DJs that don't really matter to him, he just decided to
fuck us over.
	Watch out for this guy; he's very unethical, and in his own words
"just tries to get enough money from one party to support himself
until the next one..."  If anyone has any questions about this
situation, please ask and I'll be happy to answer them.  I also have
several friends that can attest to the truth of this.  Thanks for
taking the time to read this long post and hopefully he won't try to
rip you off too.

Luke

P.S.  Eagle, if you decide to pay Greg and I back all the money you
owe us, I will publically retract this statement, but you better pay
us back quickly, as you have seriously harmed the ability for
Playscool to continue to run a non-profit performance arts center for
the good of the public, and you've caused Greg to have to put his
personal money into Playscool just to keep it running.

>>> Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>  4/26/94, 07:10pm >>>

	Oscar,
This is Elijah...well plaese call me Eagle..that is what everyone
else does....and yes I am with E-core productions.  I did that event
on april
16th called "orbital X", unfortunaelrty the guy I worked with only
really promoted in the clubs. I was wondering if 
	you heard anything about it?  I do try and stay away fro the
commercial BS...my next event in phoenix will be...


May 14th in phoenix, az from 11pm till dawn E-core productions in
association with  Panic brings you into the realm of...
     
                       FANTASY

with Djs Carlos from san fran, Jon bishop and Shaheen the
percussionist from san deig{, D-Quest from Orlando, and locals Niel
and Gary

look for the flyers!you







From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 15:41:15 1994
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Subject: Re: Warning, please read.
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 15:33:12 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <sdbe8c33.041@WordPerfect.com> from "Luke Youngblood" at Apr 27, 94 04:00:32 pm
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OK, let me get this straight.  This guy Elijah expects local people to
front all the money for his events, and he has no sound, lighting, or
permits.

What does he contribute to the party, then?  And why is it to anyone's
advantage to work with him at all instead of throwing their own party?
If he doesn't travel with any DJs then he does absolutely nothing
that you couldn't do better locally.

// g

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 15:46:46 1994
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From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 15:46:43 -0700
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To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
Subject: MOTION in SJ tonight
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

forwarding this message along, as it didn't make it through for some reason...

--- Forwarded mail from "Scott Nozawa" <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>

>From scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com Wed Apr 27 11:41:10 1994
Message-Id: <9404271507.AA19875@federal-excess.apple.com>
Date: 27 Apr 1994 09:12:15 -0800
From: "Scott Nozawa" <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>

>Sfravers,
>Ravers in South Bay unite! SIMON  will be at MOTION in San Jose. 400 S. !st
>Street. With Dj Loren. 9:00 to 2:00am
>(408)-236-3732--New Info line.

Also, please note that there are three Djs playing that evening Simon, Loren
and Tamotsu ( me ).   Anyone who can possibly make it down, please do so!!!
The party starts at 9pm and lasts only until 2am.  It is important to get to
the party promptly at 9pm to hear the full story. ( not to mention I play
first)  This party will slam so start the journey at the begining and enjoy the
ride!!!!!  

Peace & Strength              Tamotsu Scot

--- End of forwarded message from "Scott Nozawa" <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 15:55:57 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404272255.PAA11743@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Allen's Fascination
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 15:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
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Personally, I am fascinated by themes of inevitable new age evolution, 
as opposed to Revolution and alienation. Technology, 
Capitalism(Trilateralism), and the new spiritual attitudes which coincide 
with this inevitable destiny. The world will be one big rave with a 
machine enhanced beat. We will own only what we have in our backpacks and 
rent the rest (some of us might have chill spaces). We will creatively 
consume and produce to the high energy muzak. Every once in a while a 
cute fashionable person will bring by a plate of fruit. 

This is the best possible future.

salutations, allen@ameba


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 16:15:46 1994
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Subject: Virtual Duologues
To: Lee Fogel <lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 16:10:38 PDT
From: William Penna <wpenna@cruzio.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

It's --among other things--what I call "virtual
duologues" like the recent one between ethan and lee
on Organic, Mathew Fox, the scene, tthe nexus--if any--
with organized religion, that keep we a loyal lurker
and sometime participant in the ongoing sfraves online
community.  I believe through the medium of internet we
have a distinctly new and valuable form of discourse that
is both humane and technologically advanced, as old as
the concept of the Greek chorus where all the community
participated by listening in and eventually having their
say and as cutting edge as the information explosion
where more and more of us are being grown through mmore
and more information exchange!

Does that make sense?

Cheers,
Will

-- 
Will Penna               408.423 8907
Peace on earth will come from making peace inside yourself
and bringing it with you into the world.

                         ILLUMINATIONS   Paul and  Collins  HarperSan Francisco

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 16:16:50 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 16:16:19 -0700
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To: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Warning, please read.
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I went to a party Eagle threw in Denver (where he lives).  Here
is my experience:

Before the party Eagle mailed me a plane ticket.  I flew out to
Denver on the appointed day.  My friend Eric met me, we hung
out and went to the rave site.  It was beautiful, well set-up,
and well run.  I spent a good part of the night talking to Mike,
who did the lights there.

Turnout was low but the party was huge amounts of fun.  I got
paid 60% of my fee, which is more than I usually get.  Based
on my experience I agreed to go back for a party he is doing in 
May in Albequerque.

I don't know Eagle well and I don't know about pre- or post-
production at the Denver party, but what I did see worked out
well.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 17:10:31 1994
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From: gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Looking for Philip
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


	Hi, sorry to waste bandwidth, but i'm trying to locate Philip 
(whose last name i don't know) who taped the last New Moon.  Mona is 
trying to find you (she lost your phone #).  Please e-mail me your # 
or leave a message on the Great Day Times line (415)267-3076.  She's 
leaving town for a while starting Friday and would really like to 
find you before then.

							thanx,
						gregg@fly2.berkeley.edu


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 18:23:29 1994
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From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Message-Id: <199404280124.SAA19216@netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Benefit!! (for Chet Helms)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

  After his heart attack and subsequent operation,San Francisco
former impresario Chet Helms is in a very sorry financial state.
His friends are throwing a benefit for his hospital bills Saturday at
the Maritime Hall (above Atlantis) with 
many performers too numerous to mention...It should be a really
hard to duplicate event.A lot of people are chipping in.He really needs the 
money.


Chet Helms was one of the major forces behind the 60's explosion in 
SF,and unlike Bill Graham,his rival,he never,from what people tell me,
sold out...He and his girlfriend,Judy still live here in the city,and are
really nice people and members of the community.Chet's venue,the
"Avalon Ballroom" was really a part of history.


From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 18:49:29 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 18:49:34 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: donpierr@netcom.com (Don Gray)
Subject: Re: Benefit!! (for Chet Helms)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>  After his heart attack and subsequent operation,San Francisco
>former impresario Chet Helms is in a very sorry financial state.
>His friends are throwing a benefit for his hospital bills Saturday at
>the Maritime Hall (above Atlantis) with
>many performers too numerous to mention...It should be a really
>hard to duplicate event.A lot of people are chipping in.He really needs the
>money.
>
>
>Chet Helms was one of the major forces behind the 60's explosion in
>SF,and unlike Bill Graham,his rival,he never,from what people tell me,
>sold out...He and his girlfriend,Judy stll live here in the city,and are
>really nice people and members of the community.Chet's venue,the
>"Avalon Ballroom" was really a part of history.

Who's going to be playing?


Don
donpierr@netcom.com



From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 18:49:56 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 15:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
Subject: A motion to go to...
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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hi everyone,
it was posted earlier this week that Loren and Simon (!) will be at Motion
tonight, but so will one of our own--Tomatsu...T. Scot hasn't been able
to get his messages into the server for some reason, but he wanted to make
sure people knew what's up...

see ya tonight.  It should be fun...

(Get your feet back on the ground!)

mike 
(loving his new Sandals records)

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 19:55:15 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 19:54:54 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: foward from Eagle
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Eagle isn't on sfraves and so sent this to me to post (recall that
if you are not on sfraves then the list software will not accept
a posting).  

Please DO NOT reply to my address, I'm just the messenger here :-)

**************************************************************************

>From jahlewis@csn.org Wed Apr 27 19:01:41 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 19:26:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Subject: "Orbital Dawn"
To: laura@soda.berkeley.edu
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Status: ORr


Hi San Fran Ravers!

My name is Eagle of E-core Productions based out of Denver, Co.  This
letter is in defense to what Luke from Salt Lake City<SLC>, Utah has been
posting about on a list I don't even belong to.

"Orbital Dawn" in SLC, UT on April 23rd was a event I put on there in
association with Blaine of HipSway Productions.

with DJs Jon Bishop <SD>, Shaheen the percussionist <LA>, Intensity
<ALBQ>, D-Quest <Orlando>, and locals Mechinized, Merman, Luke, and live
act Dreamscape Unlimited

I had the biggest sound...and 4 intellabeams with dataflashes, and extras
for lights, as well as a REAL smart Bar from Boulder, co, there was a main
room with an Ambient chill room.

Well the local guy I was working with did not go out and promote the event
very well at all, and some of the local hardcores of the scene called me
asking what they could do to help out.  Greg of Playskool offered to let
me use the location, plus get sound/lights, security, and new flyers and
ticket sales all for $1500. Which I found was fair. This was agreed to
Wednesday before the event.

Well the night of the event, everything went down hill. The tickets had to
be sold at the Mechinized Store for .50 cents surcharge cause of how the laws 
work in SLC. that is fine and that is what I agreed to. At 2:30am I went to 
the store to get the money to organize it all and deal with it. the event only
had 148 ticket sales which equal $1480 in cash. Well Jodie who owns the
store with her boyfriend DJ MEchinized was there with a "large" associate.
with 148 ticket sales that should have been $74.00 paid for ticket chage
to the Store, well Jodie desides  to say $200 minimum and I can't leave
the store till I pay. That is not what we agreed to, but I had to pay or
get beat up.

Then I got to the event and talked to Greg of Playskool about the problem
of being short on cash. He said "Screw your Djs, and give me ALL the money"
Well I am sorry, but I am not going to screw Talent that works hard to
make kids happy and dance, I paid Jon $200, Shaheen $350, D-Quest $80,
Intensity $80, and I gave Mechinized $50...but he gave it to greg and
bailed from the party without spinning "not gonna play for this bunk ass
party". and then I gave Greg about $630, which is all the money I had
left.  Add that all up 200+200+350+80+80+50+630= $1590...which means I put
in my own money to do what I could. I left town broker then arriving
getting back with my DJ paying Gas money. I told Greg I would pay him back
the $800 I owed him before I would ever do an event in SLC again.

As far as Luke saying I tried to skip town...that is untrue..I purposely
went to the Store not in my own car, while my DJs were the ride anyway and
spinning at the party. Secondly Luke was the last person I talked to cause
he was the least of my worries. But I told him I would pay him back $100
as well when I came back. Luke as not been around as much as he says he
was.

A note about Dj Mechinized, he had the gall to come up to Jon Bishop and
say "You gonna get off now so I can spin for MY crowd" 30 minutes into his
set. Mechinized has pulled up 20 records from front to back in order
before this, He is known for playing the same set for the last year, but
because of the Utah Laws and everyone needing, not neccessarily wanting
the Mechinized store he plays at every event. well except mine. and Kids
came up to me and said they were glad they didn't have to listen to him
for once.

The Quote Luke said I said was only half there, and this is what it is "As
Long as one event pays for itself and gets the next going and gets me
there, I'm happy, and if not as long as the crowds smiles its worth the loss"
I am not greedy, but I would like what I put into it to come back. Luke is
right I have no job, I am not a trust fund brat, nor am I a drug dealer.
And how I work with my local promoters in each town is they do some
upfront cost and so do I, and none of us gets paid back till the end of
the night. And if there is profit it is split up by those who invested.

I had kids saying it was one of the best events they had been too, and
asked when I was coming back. Mechinized is also a promoter and they
events have half as much as what i gave their crowd. Perhaps they are
jealous and greedy and now have to work harder to live up to that. 

To greg of Playskool..proper respects and thanks for hard work
to Luke..quit whining
to the Mechinized crew..perhaps greed will get you one day, trying to be
controlling of a scene and allowing to things get stagnant will get you 
nowhere
to the Kids of SLC...thanks for the thanks.....

to SF ravers...I may never do a party there cause its out of my area, but
I love to party there!

Eagle of E-core
jahlewis@csn.com
303/575-1330 <VM>



:w! eagle

From sfraves-owner  Wed Apr 27 21:06:31 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 21:06:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jess <jgeddes@reed.edu>
Reply-To: Jess <jgeddes@reed.edu>
Subject: Re: foward from Eagle
To: jahlewis@csn.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199404280254.TAA15853@soda.berkeley.edu>
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I'm from SL city and have been in the scene there since shortly after it 
began. I live in Portland now so i wasn't in SL for this 
party. I know greg, luke, and the mechanized crew...have hung out with 
them, seen the way they work, and have been to plenty of their parties.  So 
here is my two cents on this whole eagle thing.  


> That is not what we agreed to, but I had to pay or get beat up.

Mechanized may not be the greatest business people in the world, and 
Chris(DJ Mechanized) is definately not one of the greatest dj's.  However 
i can not picture them beating anyone up or even threating to do such.

> Then I got to the event and talked to Greg of Playskool about the problem
> of being short on cash. He said "Screw your Djs, and give me ALL the money"

WOW!!!(hella surprised)  would of liked to been there to hear Greg say 
that.  Greg and his partner Devin have been the greatest thing that have ever
happened to the SL scene. He has constantly worked to keep the scene alive and
the vibe good without screwing anyone over.  He tries to stay away from the BS 
politics.  

> Well I am sorry, but I am not going to screw Talent that works hard to
> make kids happy and dance

Seems to me like greg also worked hard and fronted alot of money to "make 
kids happy and dance".  I don't think you should screw over dj's but it 
doesn't make sense to screw over the person who saves your ass and makes 
the party possible.  It's the responsability of the production group to 
pay everyone and take losses themselves.  


> As far as Luke saying I tried to skip town...that is untrue..I purposely
> went to the Store not in my own car, while my DJs were the ride anyway and
> spinning at the party. Secondly Luke was the last person I talked to cause
> he was the least of my worries. But I told him I would pay him back $100
> as well when I came back. Luke as not been around as much as he says he
> was.

Is there guarantee you will be back in SL soon, and be able to pay them 
back.  Large IOU's to people you don't know well aren't responsible 
promotion.

> And how I work with my local promoters in each town is they do some
> upfront cost and so do I, and none of us gets paid back till the end of
> the night. And if there is profit it is split up by those who invested.

I wonder how much luck you'll have in the future doing it in this way.


> To greg of Playskool..proper respects and thanks for hard work

he deserves it, and $900 on top of that that!

> to Luke..quit whining

weak flame :(


> 
> Eagle of E-core
> jahlewis@csn.com
> 303/575-1330 <VM>
> 
> 
> 
> :w! eagle
> 


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 00:37:08 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 01:32:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Subject: E-core has joined
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Props to the Sf massive from Eagle of E-core productions here in Denver, Co
I am here at the suggestion of Laura La Gassa <brian b.'s girlfriend>
Appparently Posts have been made here to discredit me and I thought I
would look at them first hand. I do not want to turn this into a battle
ground between a promoter and a Dj. Peace to you all!

and how or where do I send posts about events for any of you traveling
types of ravers to either Phoenix or Utah?

.......feel the vibe!
Eagle!



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 01:16:41 1994
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <9404280116.ZM15218@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 01:16:33 -0700
In-Reply-To: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
        "Allen's Fascination" (Apr 27,  3:55pm)
References: <199404272255.PAA11743@soda.berkeley.edu>
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Subject: Re: Allen's Fascination
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Aside from Allen's Amusing Fascination for cute fashionable people bringing
plates of fruit, I wonder if anyone here has seen Doug Rushkoff's new book
'Cyberia' which I got today and has a lengthy section on the early SF
rave scene (Toon Town and the like).  I haven't read it much but there's
a whole bit about Mark Heley and also the whole gamut of groove gurus
(Tim Leary, Terrence McKenna etc.)  Rushkoff has some fanciful ideas
about the music -- "dub [house], coined from Gibson's Neuromancer for
Reggae-influenced house" (like hell, dub in the dance music tradition
which covers disco all the way to melodic techno just means remixed
with minimal vocals, and doesn't generally employ the reverb and
effects of real reggae dub, and *certainly* has nothing to do with
Gibson, but no matter).  And the book seems kind of superficially
focused on 'personalities' in the scene, but that's not too surprising.
I'm looking forward to reading it in depth before making any real
judgements.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 08:46:40 1994
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From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching)
Message-Id: <199404281547.IAA13015@netcom.com>
Subject: San Jose has forward MOTION
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 08:47:56 -0700 (PDT)
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

 Let me say again , MOTION is a great party! If you're free to be in San 
Jose on a Wednesday night , I highly recomend it! 
 After a long absence , I was able to make it to MOTION last night. Our
own SFRaver Scott Nozawa ( DJ Tamotsu ) was laying down such great music,
that I started dancing as soon as I got into the space! Both he and 
MOTION "house" DJ Loren have some amazing selection of techno/tribal/acid
jazz stuff that sounds great! ( I hope that Scott will be able to post his
playlist from last night ...).
 There is usually one drummer there as well , but last night there were
two ... I hit a great "head/body" trip by dancing next to them! There's
just something that good real-time drummers can bring to a rave music
setting that really does it for me.
 Oh yeah, Simon was good too(!) , but I had to leave after 1/2 hour of his
set in order to get some pre-work sleep ( speaking of work - gotta sign
off now! ).
			Get Moving To MOTION !
					Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com

 --- Forwarded mail from "Scott Nozawa" <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>
 >Sfravers,
 >Ravers in South Bay unite! SIMON  will be at MOTION in San Jose. 400 S. !st
 >Street. With Dj Loren. 9:00 to 2:00am
 >(408)-236-3732--New Info line.
> 
> Also, please note that there are three Djs playing that evening Simon, Loren
> and Tamotsu ( me ).   Anyone who can possibly make it down, please do so!!!
> The party starts at 9pm and lasts only until 2am.  It is important to get to
> the party promptly at 9pm to hear the full story. ( not to mention I play
> first) ... 
 --- End of fwded msg from "Scott Nozawa" <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>
> 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 09:04:39 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 17:44:05 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: grigsby@agames.com, laura@soda.berkeley.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Re: Warning, please read. -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	Perhaps things are different here in Utah.  I wouldn't expect Eagle
to pay me 100% of my dj fee, just because of the fact that he lost
money on the event, but I would expect him to pay my friend 100% of
his expense to throw the party, which Eagle didn't even risk at all. 
I thought Eagle was a very nice and friendly person, until it came to
the point where he tried to leave the party without even paying or
talking to me.  What kind of ethics or friendliness does this show
you?

Luke

>>> Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>  4/27/94, 05:16pm >>>

I went to a party Eagle threw in Denver (where he lives).  Here is my
experience:

Before the party Eagle mailed me a plane ticket.  I flew out to
Denver on the appointed day.  My friend Eric met me, we hung out and
went to the rave site.  It was beautiful, well set-up, and well run. 
I spent a good part of the night talking to Mike, who did the lights
there.

Turnout was low but the party was huge amounts of fun.  I got paid
60% of my fee, which is more than I usually get.  Based on my
experience I agreed to go back for a party he is doing in  May in
Albequerque.

I don't know Eagle well and I don't know about pre- or post-
production at the Denver party, but what I did see worked out well.

Laura



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 09:19:49 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 09:19:49 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Warning, please read. -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I am not here to debate Eage's ethics, I am only reporting 
what happened to me.

I thought it a bit odd that Luke's original post was made only
to sfraves rather than mtnraves.  Mtnraves is a list covering
the geographic area where the bulk of the affected parties live,
and more than that both Eagle and Luke and people who have worked
at parties in SLC and Denver past and present are on that list.  
It just seems to me that starting this discussion there would have 
made more sense because until late last night Eagle didn't even 
belong to sfraves, and also because then the affected parties and 
concerned bystanders who make up the mtnraves membership
would see it.

But anyway, I'm bowing out of this as of now.

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 09:28:31 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 17:39:56 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: grigsby@agames.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Re: Warning, please read. -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	Eagle brought 2 DJs with him, and also arranged for Jon Bishop and
Shaheen Shary to play at the event.  Other than this, he did nothing.
If all it takes for me to throw a party is booking DJs, that's cake;
I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Luke

>>> JUMP IN THE FIRE <grigsby@agames.com>  4/27/94, 04:33pm >>>

OK, let me get this straight.  This guy Elijah expects local people
to front all the money for his events, and he has no sound, lighting,
or permits.

What does he contribute to the party, then?  And why is it to
anyone's advantage to work with him at all instead of throwing their
own party?
If he doesn't travel with any DJs then he does absolutely nothing
that you couldn't do better locally.

// g



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 10:04:08 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 10:03:07 -0700
From: Randy Tinkerman <rmt@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199404281703.KAA14682@well.sf.ca.us>
To: LUKEY@wordperfect.com, grigsby@agames.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Warning, please read. -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

In Hollyweird, if you provide financing or truly key elements to a
production, you are *executive* producer.  If you provide the dance floor or
the sound system, at your financial risk, you're the producer.  If you
provide a portion of the other key elements, you're an *associate* producer.

and if you bring a couple of DJs, you're the *chauffeur.*  (Unless it's a
union production, in which case you're the *driver.*)

?-)
alpha-6&1/2

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 10:38:50 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 10:38:46 -0700
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: desperately seeking "Mayday"
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Does anyone within a reasonable drive of the Bay Area have a copy
of Westbam's "Mayday" on vinyl I can borrow for the weekend?

I am looking for the original version, the one with Marusha going
"mayday mayday mayday mayday" in the beginning.  (I found a bunch
of remixes of it but when I got them home none of them were the
right one :-( )

Please, no comments on what you think of the song or the genre,
just let me know if I can borrow it -- I can come pick it up Friday
night or during the day Saturday.

Thanks a LOT,

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 11:24:27 1994
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Subject: Re: Warning, please read. -Reply (!) Enough!
To: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 10:13:26 PDT
From: William Penna <wpenna@cruzio.com>
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <sdbf90e4.094@wordperfect.com>; from "Luke Youngblood" at Apr 27, 94 5:39 pm
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Something, methinks, smells fishy in cyberspace!

This thread, I think, has gone on long enough.  I
believe Laura has mada a very good point that raises
an important issue about this whole discussion. If
anything is to be addressed, let *that* be discussed
rather than continuing tto repeat and repeat again the
same contentions and counter-contentions! Both the content
and the way in which this discussion is being waged are,
in fact, entirely too contentious!

Laura's sage observation, if you missed it:

I thought it a bit odd that Luke's original post was made only
to sfraves rather than mtnraves.  Mtnraves is a list covering
the geographic area where the bulk of the affected parties live,
and more than that both Eagle and Luke and people who have worked
at parties in SLC and Denver past and present are on that list.
It just seems to me that starting this discussion there would have
made more sense because until late last night Eagle didn't even
belong to sfraves, and also because then the affected parties and
concerned bystanders who make up the mtnraves membership
would see it.

The Italian has landed in the New World,
Will

-- 
Will Penna               408.423 8907
Peace on earth will come from making peace inside yourself
and bringing it with you into the world.

                         ILLUMINATIONS   Paul and  Collins  HarperSan Francisco

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 11:32:04 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:10:17 EDT
From: FKDV20A@prodigy.com  (MR BLAINE E LINCOLN)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, smegma@xmission.com, lukey@wordperfect.com,
        vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu, jahlewis@teal.csn.org, fkdv20a@prodigy.com,
        blincoln@cc.weber.edu
Subject: SLC Fanmail and all that stuff
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

First of all, this is not SFRaves oriented mail.  I strongly urge any
SFRaves people to hit 'n' now.  This is concerning the Salt Lake City
controversy that is running about right now.  It truly should be on the
MOUNTAIN RAVES list, but this is where the original post was made, so I am
putting it here as well as mtnraves and then any further dialogue I have
will take place on mtnraves only.

Here's your chance to 'n'

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 11:35:21 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!soda.berkeley.edu!laura@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: desperately seeking "Mayday"
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Does anyone within a reasonable drive of the Bay Area have a copy
of Westbam's "Mayday" on vinyl I can borrow for the weekend?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Does this by chance have to do with the fact that this weekend (Sunday)
is Mayday?  Have a happy Mayday/Beltaine everybody!

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 11:49:07 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 12:48:46 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, smegma@xmission.com
Cc: vrave@gnu.au.mit.edu, jahlewis@teal.csn.org, mtnraves@xmission.com
Subject:  Warning, please read -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

[non-pertaining material deleted]

>True: the party did not cover expenses.  Neither Blaine or Luke were
>reimbursed for DJ'ing in the chill-out room.  The out-of-state DJ's
>were paid, and Eagle gave the rest of the money to Greg.  I have
>talked to Eagle since this event and he is committed to paying Greg
>the balance of the amount.
>As far as Luke is concerned, Blaine has made arrangements for him to
>get paid.

	This is the only part of your message that has any relevance at all
to the original posting.  What I was complaining about is the fact
that Playscool and I have been ripped off.  When, and if, we do get
paid, I will retract the bad things I've said about Eagle, but it
seems as if you're trying harder to save Blaine's reputation than
anything else, and all this excess filler you're throwing in is crap.
I could come up with a 500 line rebuttal for everything you've just
said, but is it worth it?  Do people really want the bandwidth on all
these mailing lists polluted with this type of shit?  I'll leave it
at that.

Luke


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 12:15:24 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 13:14:53 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: jahlewis@csn.org, smegma@xmission.com
Cc: vrave@gnu.au.mit.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, mtnraves@xmission.com
Subject:  Re: Warning, please read -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	The original message was posted to sfraves and mtnraves.  The reason
I posted it to both lists was because you yourself told me that you
were planning on doing an event in SF.  I thought it only fair to
warn them.

>>> Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>  4/27/94, 11:59pm >>>

I would like to make a few corrections to this

Greg and I never signed a contract in physical form, but I approved
over email. having no contracts is part of the problem of this event,
in which
I usually do in other towns. if Luke desides to  pay Luke then my
devt is transferred to Blaine. My reasons for paying greg to settle
everyone's trust are simple personal: ita a matter of principal and
my reputation
Professional: I would never be able to do an event in utah again and
I do not beleive in staying debt Other; it is too greg worked very
hard and we all took losses. I have the deepest respect for greg of
Playskool.

I will not encourage or discourage anyone from going to anyone's
store or events...I do not want to start a political war. my
bussiness and personal dealing are with them. It upsets me to see
Luke slandering me too the San
Fran crowd which had nothing to do with this area, or will probably
never see a E-core event. Utah is technically in the mountain raves
scene.
Probably cause Luke is too afraid to Slander me in my own area of
operation he want whining to the sfraves list.

Luke this is the crowd you play for, and that I promote for without
tthem neither of us are anything!......As much as SLC left a bad
taste in my mouth over such negativity..I want to go back to utah and
do what I can to help promote positive vibes.  Cause when kids are
smiling, coming up to and saying thank you, and asking when your
coming back cause they thought you had one of the raddest events in
awhile, it makes lossing money almost worth it.  and though things
went bad and screwy behind the scenes, there is no reason to effect
the crowd!



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 12:36:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 13:20:17 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: laura@soda.berkeley.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Re: Warning, please read. -Reply -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	I originally sent the message to mtnraves, and then as an
afterthought, re-posted it to sfraves.  The message is on both lists.

Luke

>>> Laura La Gassa <laura@soda.berkeley.edu>  4/28/94, 10:19am >>>
I am not here to debate Eage's ethics, I am only reporting  what
happened to me.

I thought it a bit odd that Luke's original post was made only to
sfraves rather than mtnraves.  Mtnraves is a list covering the
geographic area where the bulk of the affected parties live, and more
than that both Eagle and Luke and people who have worked at parties
in SLC and Denver past and present are on that list.   It just seems
to me that starting this discussion there would have  made more sense
because until late last night Eagle didn't even  belong to sfraves,
and also because then the affected parties and  concerned bystanders
who make up the mtnraves membership would see it.

But anyway, I'm bowing out of this as of now.

Laura



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 12:37:09 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 13:32:31 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
To: blincoln@cc.weber.edu, vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu, fkdv20a@prodigy.com,
        jahlewis@teal.csn.org, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        smegma@xmission.com
Subject:  SLC Fanmail and all that stuff -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

--- Blaine Lincoln (blincoln@cc.weber.edu) writes ---
 -->  You have no viable reason to tell people not to trust him.  In
this country, a person is innocent until PROVEN guilty.  Period.  No
exceptions.
 You and I have a deal for you to get paid and that will happen.  If
it turns out that Eagle does not pay Greg, Greg will have my full
backing in whatever action he decides to take, judicially or
otherwise.  Eagle never once tried to leave town without paying
people.  The party would most certainly have happened if you hadn't
"made all the arrangements and singlehandedly come to the rescue of
the damsel in distress and all that stuff."  You were helpful, I'll
grant you that much, and we appreciate it a lot.
-----------------------------------------------------

	But Blaine, you don't understand at all.  He IS guilty.  The fact
that he has not paid Greg or I makes him so.  When a crime has
occured, some party is guilty.  Eagle is the one who committed to pay
us, and because he did not, he is guilty.  When, and if, he decides
to pay us, then I will take back what I've said about him.  Until
then, I have every right to tell people what we've experienced in
doing business with him.


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 13:47:20 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:46:06 -0600 (MDT)
From: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Reply-To: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Subject: Re: Warning, please read. -Reply
To: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
Cc: grigsby@agames.com, laura@soda.berkeley.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <sdbf8b45.073@wordperfect.com>
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Luke
I didn't try to leave without paying you, you were just last om my list of
people to get to. I am not trying to belittle you, but I was thinking of
other things..Like greg , and what else still needed to be done. Talking
to you only took five minutes and was one of the last things I needed to
do. greg and chris came by and said nbye cause they were anxious to leave
town cause they did not enjot themselves. YThey were ready to leave at
5am!...but we didn't leave until six. Why don't you stop whining to
everyone and wait to get paid. I just subscribed to this list yesterday
th...at the suggestion of others so I mat defend mydelf against your
slanders and whinings on a net that covers and area that doesn't even
concern us when you didn't even post it to mtn raves until a couple days
later. You and Greg will get paiq???S





From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 14:25:20 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 15:21:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Subject: Re: SLC Fanmail and all that stuff -Reply
To: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>
Cc: blincoln@cc.weber.edu, vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu, fkdv20a@prodigy.com,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, smegma@xmission.com
In-Reply-To: <sdbfbd14.041@wordperfect.com>
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Luke,

 would have paid if I had the money I have already said enough times.  I
gave out what ,money I had which was more then what we took in for ticket
sales. I got home on my DJ paying for gas! Sometimes parties don't go off
as well as we would like, and sometimes we lose money. I will pay back
greg and You what I owe, and I am still out about $700 myself in the DJ
travel expenses I had to pay out before the party. That money I will never
see again. Atleast Greg and you will see the money you put in too it. Just
not right now. I can't promise when, but trust me I definitley know you
won't shut up till I do...besides all the other reasons I have stated
before that is becoming another!

Eagle!



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 14:38:20 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:39:26 -0700
From: rox@netcom.com (Roxanna Stieber)
Message-Id: <199404282139.OAA29289@netcom.com>
To: jahlewis@csn.org
Cc: LUKEY@wordperfect.com, blincoln@cc.weber.edu, vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu,
        fkdv20a@prodigy.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, smegma@xmission.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9404281502.C1470-a100000@teal> (message from Elijah Lewis on Thu, 28 Apr 1994 15:21:07 -0600 (MDT))
Subject: Re: SLC Fanmail and all that stuff -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

To ALL concerned regarding this flamefest. Please, please, please take it
to personal email. Just about every message I read today at lunch was
regarding this thread. You posted your say, do you REALLY have to involve
all these people on these lists in your squabble??? It's such a downer.

Peace,
Rox

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 14:43:51 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 15:43:22 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@WordPerfect.com>
To: jahlewis@csn.org
Cc: grigsby@agames.com, laura@soda.berkeley.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  Re: Warning, please read. -Reply -Reply
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	Everything I've said was true.  I don't consider my postings
"whinings and slanderings", I merely want to insure that a non-profit
business like Playscool, that provides a definite good for our
community, doesn't get harmed by the bad dealings of a single
promoter.	Like I said before, if, and when, Greg and I get paid, I
will take back what I've said.  Until then, YOU are the person in the
wrong, and any attempt to prove otherwise just makes you sound more
guilty.

>>> Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>  4/28/94, 02:46pm >>>
Luke
I didn't try to leave without paying you, you were just last om my
list of people to get to. I am not trying to belittle you, but I was
thinking of other things..Like greg , and what else still needed to
be done. Talking to you only took five minutes and was one of the
last things I needed to do. greg and chris came by and said nbye
cause they were anxious to leave town cause they did not enjot
themselves. YThey were ready to leave at
5am!...but we didn't leave until six. Why don't you stop whining to
everyone and wait to get paid. I just subscribed to this list
yesterday th...at the suggestion of others so I mat defend mydelf
against your slanders and whinings on a net that covers and area that
doesn't even concern us when you didn't even post it to mtn raves
until a couple days later. You and Greg will get paiq???S







From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 14:45:40 1994
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From: Robert Benjamin <vaguy@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199404282145.OAA01440@elaine4.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: whining
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:45:35 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Stop your whining, luke and others!  I tried to throw a big party last year, and got screwed by the venue I was going to hold it at the last minute.  I was out almost $2000 and I still ended up keeping my word, and paid the DJs something.  If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.  And by the way Luke, you might consider getting a real job.
						Bobby B.

					btw:  it was around this time last year and it was called Obsession

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 14:54:38 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:51:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jess <jgeddes@reed.edu>
Subject: Re: SLC Fanmail and all that stuff -Reply
To: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Cc: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>, blincoln@cc.weber.edu,
        vrave@gnu.ai.mit.edu, fkdv20a@prodigy.com, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU,
        smegma@xmission.com
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okay..enough already.  Personally i'm getting sick of these _personal_ 
arguments and attacks.  It seems that both parties opinions and points have 
been 
expressed sufficiently.  I am only speaking for myself, but i think 
that it is time for these posts to be addressed personally and not to  
everyone.  These last few posts have been basically repeats of what has 
already been said, and are insignificant other than to the individuals 
involved, it's getting old.

sorry
jess

On Thu, 28 Apr 1994, Elijah Lewis wrote:

> Luke,
> 
>  would have paid if I had the money I have already said enough times.  I
> gave out what ,money I had which was more then what we took in for ticket
> sales. I got home on my DJ paying for gas! Sometimes parties don't go off
> as well as we would like, and sometimes we lose money. I will pay back
> greg and You what I owe, and I am still out about $700 myself in the DJ
> travel expenses I had to pay out before the party. That money I will never
> see again. Atleast Greg and you will see the money you put in too it. Just
> not right now. I can't promise when, but trust me I definitley know you
> won't shut up till I do...besides all the other reasons I have stated
> before that is becoming another!
> 
> Eagle!
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 14:55:16 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 15:53:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Subject: Re: Warning, please read. -Reply -Reply
To: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@WordPerfect.com>
Cc: grigsby@agames.com, laura@soda.berkeley.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
In-Reply-To: <sdbfd9a3.090@WordPerfect.com>
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Luke,

whatever...I'm over it and quit posting your insults all over the nation,
your alreading pissing of most of the world your trying to protect supposedly.
you'l get paid, and so will greg..so save your sermon to yourself.

Eagle!



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 15:03:55 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 16:03:42 -0600
From: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@WordPerfect.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject:  off-topic postings
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

	To sfraves:  I'm very sorry that this entire thread has ended up
being posted to this list.  You won't see one more message from me
concerning this topic on this list.  I apologize again for filling
your mailboxes.

Peace,
Luke


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 15:11:07 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 15:09:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: YOUR FRIEND MIKE <MROMO@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
Subject: C H I L L
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <01HBPO8LLOQQ003CJX@scuacc.scu.edu>
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Jeez, people, take the thing offline.  Notice how you are the only people
posting recently?

mike

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 15:24:51 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 15:26:01 -0700
From: crunch@netcom.com (John Draper)
Message-Id: <199404282226.PAA27963@netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: An opportunity to address city officials
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

ATTENTION!! To all SFRavers....

   I have an opportunity to address city officials tommorrow at a rehersal
for the upcoming "Global Tea Party",  an international awareness gathering
to help solve local and global problems.    There will be a "Space Bridge"
connecting several European sites,  where this hi-tech meeting will be
geared to discuss such problems.

   I've been invited to talk about local social problems,  and plan to
bring up the SF social problem of the lack of suitable sites for young people
to have a plave to dance.    Because I was invited,  I've been given the
"go ahead" to invite as many people as I need to help substantiate this
awareness and problems the SF rave community has in Obtaining permits, 
lack of suitable venues,  and constant harrassment by the police.

  This is somewhat short notice,  primarily do to the fact that I had to
go to Redding to find work.   I returned late last night and was given the
go ahead just this morning.

   This gathering rehersal is scheduled for 10 am tommorrow,  and if anyone
wants to go,  please RSVP to me immediately,  and I'll send you the address
of the location in SF (Pacific Heights) on where this is to take place.
Bill McCarthey,  a prominent rock promoter who promoted Peter Gabrial,
the US Festival,  and a number of other popular events will be heading
the promotion of the main Tea Party to take place sometime in June.

   For those RSVP'ing,  please include your phone number so I can phone you
to discuss the details.

John D.

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 16:01:06 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 16:02:26 -0700
From: rth@netcom.com (Robert Hughes)
Message-Id: <199404282302.QAA15331@netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: pure space
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Was fairly cool last week. Tonight my flyer sez its:
garth
robbie hardkiss
spun
(415)267-0640
375 11th st. S.F. 21+


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 16:11:24 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 16:11:45 PDT
From: gregg@coreys.berkeley.edu (Gregg Helt)
Message-Id: <9404282311.AA29843@coreys.maggot>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: FMR (not SLC related...)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


	So was there a FMR?  We followed a rumor Monday night, then heard 
it would be Tuesday.  Did it happen?

				living vicariously through others,
				gregg


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 16:12:08 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 19:11:54 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404282311.AA27288@pilot.njin.net>
To: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Cc: Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>, grigsby@agames.com,
        laura@soda.berkeley.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Why are we here?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9404281417.C26926-a100000@teal>
References: <Pine.3.05.9404281417.C26926-a100000@teal>
	<sdbf8b45.073@wordperfect.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

When one starts using second person tense, i.e. "you this" and "you
that," then it's time to take it to email.

First we have a major complaint posted to sfraves...including a lot of
accusations about someone not even in the bay area and who does not
throw parties in the bay area. Then we have the accused joining
sfraves with the sole purpose of engaging the first person in a
public argument.

Why are we here? I've begun to wonder about that lately.  The last six
months has shown a dramatic rise in flame wars and personal attacks.
It seems we can't disagree about something without invoking the "you"
word.

Regardless of what the charter for sfraves is, and for what we want it
to be, it is what it is. Everything we post here every day is the
spirit and soul of our community, our public message.

We've all made mistakes. Are we going to repeat them? Are we creatures
of intent or action?

I've had no less than three people tell me recently that they felt the
sfraves crowd was exclusionary and clubbish, and they didn't want to
have much to do with them because of their vibe. And I was surprised
to hear it, but who knows, maybe I have a deficit of perspective
lately. And these were mature, very friendly people who said this,
people I know and respect, so I consider their words carefully.

Someone once told me that when someone says something that's
impossible, instead of your first reaction being to refute it, it
should be to search for answers to "In what ways could this possibly be
true?"

How *could* people be seeing sfraves as an undesirable crowd? Could it
have something to do with the viciousness and negativity expressed
here? Does it leak over into "real life", or perhaps it is the
unrestrained online expression of real life feelings? Or is it
something else? Why would anyone say that?

I don't know. All I know is I see too much self-protection, too much
judgement. It makes one weary and sad.

Personally, I think I'm going to back-out a while, and start getting
personally involved with parties and proactive action. I *love* most
of you people. I just wish I weren't losing faith in our collective
ability to love, accept, and understand.

I wish you the best,

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 16:30:49 1994
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <9404281630.ZM6681@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 16:30:33 -0700
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.0 15dec93)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: PRZ article in WSJ
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Not exactly rave-related, but there's an interesting front-page
article in today's Wall Street Journal about PGP (Pretty Good Privacy)
and Phil Zimmermann.  Worth checking out . . .

See you in the future!

phred

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 16:52:04 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 17:48:42 -0600 (MDT)
From: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Subject: Re: Why are we here?
To: Sean Casey <csc@pilot.njin.net>
Cc: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>, Luke Youngblood <LUKEY@wordperfect.com>,
        grigsby@agames.com, laura@soda.berkeley.edu,
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Righton Sean!

I agree with you totally, and I feel bad that my joining sfraves was to
defend myself from someone who is also from out of the area, due to that
they didn't want to make theese accusations on our own area.  The mtnraves
posts are usually pretty posivitive, cause we are smaller and a closer
knit family. Anyway I wia..wish you all well and as with look I am sorry
this thread dragged out for this long this much.

Peace........feel the vibe!
agle



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 16:59:29 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 19:37:38 EDT
From: FKDV20A@prodigy.com  (MR BLAINE E LINCOLN)
X-Mailer: PRODIGY Services Company Internet mailer [PIM 3.0-109.43]
Message-Id: <013.00658154.FKDV20A@prodigy.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: this is making me sick
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

The subject should say it.  This is NOT what the rave culture/community is
all about as far as I am concerned.  I think I may just take a break from
the whole rave thing for a few weeks.  Be it known that all of my dialogue
on the current thread other than my original post, defending myself, has
been made via private, person to person Email.  Also, I am hereby
withdrawing from the whole messy affair.  Everyone should listen to Laura
L. more often.  She's usually right.  Truly this is a shame to see no less
than 3 mailing lists virtually destroyed with this.

Increase the PEACE--
Blaine


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 17:03:12 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 19:44:13 EDT
From: FKDV20A@prodigy.com  (MR BLAINE E LINCOLN)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Keyboard this month
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Speaking of magazines...

Keyboard Magazine, has some very good interviews and so forth with Richard
James (Aphex Twin, Polygon Window), Vapourspace, and some other really
great artists this month.  It describes a lot of Mr. James' equipment, that
it seems he built himself, which I consider a tremendous accomplishment,
considering how great his music is.

Just an FYI, I had a lot of fun reading it.  It should be available at any
Waldenbooks or magazine selling chainstore.

Blaine


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 17:07:11 1994
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From: meclay@netcom.com (Michael E. Clay)
Message-Id: <199404290008.RAA22484@netcom.com>
Subject: RE RE: Why are we here?
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 17:08:29 -0700 (PDT)
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Sean asks Why are we here ? and makes some interesting observations about
flames, perceptions etc. 

Being new to the internet, sfraves and RAVES - boy have I been lost ! I am
absorbing it all at a rapid rate and geez am I being taught !!!

First although I have yet to meet any of you outside of cyberville I feel
that I am learning about each of you from just hanging around out here. I
feel that I already like Sean for his "sense of fairness" amoung other things
and do not want to see his imput diminsih from the list. 

After analyzing my first post - which initiated a flame cycle I came to
realize something about technology - it can make us "crazy". I am
particularly focusing on any form of "distance" technology. Consider:
Driving - in our isolation mobiles don't we flame each other, cut each other
  off Etc. ? Would we act this way face to face ?
TV - don't we bitch at people on the tube in ways we would not dare if we
    were face to face.
Recordings - it's much easier to blast someone's latest recording than to
    blast away at them face to face. Perhaps we could see in their face
    some reflection of how we all fear critical bitching.
And finally the cyberspace "discussions" 

  It seems to be far too easy to jump to conclusions and release the 
  flamethrowers. Certainly when pressing the flesh we probe a bit longer
  before we go to war and the immediate nature of direct communication
  facilitates the process. In cyberspace it seems that we need to reflect
  longer when something strikes us as being amiss. Perhaps it would also
  help if we took our negative thoughts into direct email as a first course
  of action rather than group posting ? If direct contact did not solve our
  perceptions we could then bring up appropriate communications at the
  group level. Groups are strange beasts to tame or even understand.



I have learned more than I can even begin to communicate about Raving from
the posts I read on sfraves - so as a beginning explorer of the scene and
the music I must say that I appreciate what the list gives to me and I am
able to get over my perception that maybe the group is too negative or
whatever... every family has a squabble now and again.

Bottom line: What the group seems to be about is sharing the scene. Sean
seems to be a rather large and very positive part of that sharing - but
certainly not the whole by any means. So set back - chill refortify the
faith and just keep the best vibe going possible and before posting that
flame pretend for a minute that a real person is before you and have your
post reflect the humanity of that individual. 


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 17:08:21 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 17:09:37 -0700
From: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
Message-Id: <199404290009.RAA23305@netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: blue cube 5/14/94
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

*******************************************************************************
				Saturday

			     May 14th 1994

				SFRaves
			    Blue Cube Party

		             San Francisco 

		   DJs: Meme, Laura, Lee, Will, Ethan

		        for info/directions email
		          resonate@netcom.com 
			with subject line: INFO

*******************************************************************************

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 17:14:41 1994
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From: JACOB%SLACVM.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
To: csc@pilot.njin.net, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are we here?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

In-Reply-To: csc@pilot.njin.net -- 04/28/94 16:24
 hi y'all,
 i've been holding on  to john's reply for a couple of days now, and
want to add a bit -geoff and john pretty much covered the experience
at wicked really well.
    Geoff :
>The party was going to be at 1015? Really? But isn`t Martini's
>The WICKED party was
>your standard sweaty e-pit type WICKED, in the basement, hot,
>smokey,steamy, sexy and killer music.  When I got there at about 1:00,
>Bones was going off on the decks, warming the crowd up (as if it needed
>it).  I ran into jsl and complained to him about the temperature in the
>basement, he made a very prophetic statement when he said something
>like "It don't matter, the true believers will all be down there before
>the night is over"
 john :
]I gotta agree with you there Geoff, it was a REAL WICKED in every sense.
]It was held in their old watering hole, there was alot of good energy, and
]the cracker-jack crew was in full force.  It was a wonderful site!  I am
]also amazed at the diverse crowd WICKED seems to be gettin of late.  People
]groove to get down at WICKED's which is why it remians one of my favorite
]parties.  Nice, sweaty, hot, sensual, it was ALL THAT.  Fucka full moon,
]I'm all about the REAL madness!

i won't repeat their words. the party was outta this world. i wished i had
seen more sfravers, tho'. i do hope to see more of us at the come/unity
next wed.. the musick was incredible, the mix of people great, the vibe
real strong. wicked is all that.
take care/shalom/(se)X hits the spot
ovid

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 17:30:32 1994
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From: meclay@netcom.com (Michael E. Clay)
Message-Id: <199404290031.RAA25111@netcom.com>
Subject: SPAZ and other groups?
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 17:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
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 Just went to my first SPAZ last night and I liked it much.. A small 
 gathering with some DJ's that I and my music partner Jim find to be
 warm people. Jennifer often seems to start their music sets with a more
 ambient type of groove and things move from there. She played a 
 reggae oriented piece last night that sounded to us like the "theme
 from Gilligan's Island" on dope :-) ! I like them perhaps because we
 met them in the basement of Close Encounters and got on well from there.
 One note: I noticed SPAZ was 21+ Please don't start flaming that.. I've 
 already read those threads and know pretty much how they wear :-).

 Without getting into flames and negative bursts - do others of you have
 groups of people that you have found to be very positive? I am in search
 of the most positive of responses. In other words where would you tell a
 friend to check out ?  Ameba BBQ ? Funky Buddha? Reviews I want reviews!
 I'm a not much of a joiner so it's easy for me to gladly move from group
 to group without much concern for becoming a tight part of a clique. I
 will gladly share postive vibes wherever I find them and the more the
 better..

 In case you might wonder I'm not ignoring sfraves but have not been able
 to be free for a lunch and I have noticed the postings giving thumbs up
 to Motion? in SJ. I'm just new enough that I am trying to survey the best
 the scene has to offer. Also, for listening I love things that move
 toward the ambient side of the house - and I love to listen since it
 affects what I play....

 Keep on dancing... Keep on listening... and let us know what you find..

 Mike 
 

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 17:50:05 1994
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From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404290050.AA16567@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Re: this is
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 17:50:07 PDT
In-Reply-To: <013.00658154.FKDV20A@prodigy.com>; from "MR BLAINE E LINCOLN" at Apr 28, 94 7:37 pm
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

>   Truly this is a shame to see no less
> than 3 mailing lists virtually destroyed with this.

Destroyed?  Far from it.  SFRaves has been through worse.  I
used to let this kind of stuff get me down, but it doesn't
so much anymore.  Perseverence in the face of adversity will
only strengthen us.  I've seen our scene take some hits,
pull back, regroup, and come back out with positive vibe
fully intact.  The rave scene has its ups & downs, just like
life.  I've seen people who have flamed the shit out of each 
other shake hands and dance side by side at a party.  To
anyone who is bummed over some recent petty negativism, I recommend
taking a longer view: raving will survive because we can
express our *entire* nature to each other - the good, bad &
ugly - and *still* go out and transcend it all.  

We are the weird - If feeling good was so easy, then it wouldn't feel
so good to feel good.  Or something. d:~]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 18:10:30 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 18:10:23 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: rth@netcom.com (Robert Hughes)
Subject: Re: GUIDELINES FOR POSTING TO SFRAVES
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Well it's been about a year since Brian posted this to the list. I
hope he does'nt mind me posting it again. I'm especially fond
of guideline 2a. 



>From: bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf)
>Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 13:03:28 -0700
>X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
>To: sfraves@soda.berkeley.edu
>Subject: GUIDELINES FOR POSTING TO SFRAVES
>
>Some guidelines for posting to SFRaves.   Print this out and tape it to
>your computer for handy reference.  This list will be given to all new
>members from now on.
>
>1)  First realize that
>
>        a) SFRaves is a large mailing list.
>
>        b) The volume is already quite high.
>
>        c) For every editorial or opinion there are hundreds of
>           possible replies.
>
>        d) Topics of world import such as feminism and race relations
>           will *always* be with us, at least for the current generation,
>           and while discussion about them is important the issues *won't*
>           be resolved by just talking about them here on the list.  They
>           are appropriate here as long as they aren't more appropriate
>           in soc.feminism, etc.
>
>        e) Ego has NO PLACE on the mailing list.
>
>        f) Even with a high signal-to-noise ratio, a high volume means more
>           people skim articles than actually read them.  This is a bad thing.
>
>2)  Now for the general rules:
>
>        a) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS - even if someone is being a complete
>           jerk and everyone agrees, please refrain from flaming him/her
>           in public.  Send him/her all the private email you want.  If
>           they flame you first, be the wise one and take the argument
>           off the list.  If he/she is truely being a jerk everyone knows
>           it anyways.  The difference between a well-reasoned argument
>           and a personal flame should be quite clear.
>
>        b) Try and set an upper limit to your number of posts to 2 a day.
>           Making more is fine, but as you're typing your third make *sure*
>           it's something that's worth the time of the 250 people you are
>           sending it to.
>
>        c) BREVITY IS THE SOUL OF WIT.  Paragraphs prove you have a point.
>
>        d) Ranting is the opposite of raving (thanks to rth@netcom.com for
>           reminding us)
>
>        e) Don't reply to a post until you have read your entire mail
>           queue and made sure no one else has replied exactly what you
>           would say.
>
>        f) Refrain from making "me too" posts, where you simply add "I agree"
>           to the bottom of a quoted message.
>
>        g) If you reply to a post someone makes, READ EVERY WORD THEY SAY
>           CAREFULLY, and in the absence of facial and hand gestures interpret
>           their comments in the best possible light.  It's very hard for the
>           "TV" generation (which we are whther you own a TV or not) to know
>           how to communicate without visual cues.  Make sure you understand
>           what the other person is saying.  
>
>        h) If a conversation turns into a particulary heated argument, wait
>           at least an hour before making your reply, to allow you to see 
>           what they are saying in the absence of a testosterone rush.
>
>        i) Be SURE of what you are saying when you say it.  Proofread your
>           comments several times.  Make sure your use of certain words is
>           the generally accepted use by the community at large, not what
>           *you* think that usage should implicate.
>
>
>We are at the brink of something BIG here, and SFRaves can be a part of
>it.  But only if we keep ourselves as high quality as we've been in the
>past, and these guidelines are a part of it.  Anyone who's spent a good
>deal of time on the net knows these as part of an unwritten policy, but
>they bear repeated for those who are new.  
>
>The Conciousness Revolution has begun.
>
>        Brian
>
>



From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 19:03:43 1994
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From: Derek Chung <dhchung@us.oracle.com>
Subject: This Week's SF Rave Guide!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFRaves)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 19:06:16 PDT
Cc: sfraves-calendar@techno.Stanford.EDU (SFR Calendar)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Sorry if this is slightly late for your Thursday night partying, but I
guess the only things happening tonight are the weeklies you should
already know about from last week.  Anyway, between my car being in
the shop and being generally busy, I haven't been out to get flyers
(except stopping in a couple of stores while biking home), so I could
be missing a lot of stuph.  Anyway, I will definitely go to Come/Unity
next week - last month's was the first one I had missed since mid-92.
Looking ahead, watch for several SFR events in the next month...

-Derek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------- UPCOMING RAVES IN THE SF/BAY AREA ---------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friday, April 29th - R.A.W. (Reactive Audio Wavelength)
        Spun  Jeno  Garth  Suiki  Rick Preston  Dedan  Thomas
        Julius Papp  Christophe  John Howard  Jan Cooley  
        Visuals by Donovan
        10 PM - 8 PM, 18+ After 2 A.M.
        55 Natoma St. Info: 415-243-8181

Saturday, April 30th - Anthem of the Sun
        Jeno  Thomas  Simon  Spun  Markie  Carlos  Rick Preston 
         Dutch  Tony  Ernie Munson  Chris Lum  Ghost  
        415-979-3005  415.905.6312  408.486.9455

Saturday, April 30th - CHATEAUPIA
        DJs Brad, Josh, Scottie, Stonie
        10 pm -> ?, $3, @ Le Chateau - 2545 Hillegass @ Parker, Berkeley
        DIRECTIONS:  Take I-80 to Berkeley, Exit University Ave.
        Follow University towards the hills, and turn RIGHT on Shattuck Ave.
        Left at Dwight, right on Hillegass, Chateau is at the end.

Saturday, April 30th - free party this weekend in Marin
        Call 485-6597 for more info

Saturday, April 30th - Dig!
        DJs Pause, Charlotte, Thomas, George & Dani
        Kennel Club, 628 Divisadero @ Grove.  21+, 10pm-2am.

Wednesday, May 4th - Come/Unity
        Jeno  Garth  Simon
        back at 1015 Folsom
        415.241.8815

Saturday, May 7th - Beltane Wicked
        415.512.5713

Saturday, May 7th - Rush
        Ghost  Simon  Carlos  Bones  Jaz  Christophe
        415.487.7471

Saturday, May 14 - SFR Blue Cube Party
        DJs: Meme, Laura, Lee, Will, Ethan
        for info/directions email resonate@netcom.com w/subject line: INFO

Saturday, May 14th - Fundamental
        Spun  Josh  DJ Dan  Ernie Munson  Rick Preston
        Visuals by Donovan, Pure, Ken Stone
        $10, 18+ w/id.  415.487.4339  415.486.9400

Saturday, May 14th - Vision
        Markie Mark  Garth  Josh  Tony  Doran & guests
        415.267.4800

Saturday, May 21st - Launch Pad II

Saturday, May 28th - SFRaves presents In The Light
         ->Get Infected by Meme -> 
         ->Trance out with Laura ->
         ->Take an Acid House Bath with Markie->
         Audio by SoundVision - Three Turntables
        noon to 6pm at the bandshell, Golden Gate Park.

Saturday, June 11th - Basics 2-year anniversary
        415.905.9629


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some weeklies, in the house/techno/acid jazz/etc vein.  Some
of them may have ended - let me know when that happens...

---------------------------- T h u r s d a y --------------------------------

Your Sisters' House - 9pm discussion - 10pm-4am funkygrooves - 415-435-7575
Universal Groove - $5. 415.281.5913  510.869.2727
Ajax Lounge - Acid Jazz w/Julius Papp (San Jose)
Lift - Digit, EFX, & guests - $5, 21+, 55 Natoma, SF - 415.267.5984
Inspirations - 610 Coleman Ave, San Jose.  9pm-2am, 18+.
        408.236.2102  415.267.6974
Pure Space - 10pm-4am, 21+, $5. DNA Lounge, 375 11th @ Harrison. 415.267.0640
        [04.28 - Garth, Spun, Robbie Hardkiss]

------------------------------ F r i d a y ----------------------------------

Corduroy City  - $5 - call for DJs and location - 415.974.9715
Life/Twirl - Sound Factory - 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF    415.543.1300   21+
	DJs include Doc Martin, Aaron O, Pete Avila
Deep - Nikki Rivera, Jason Hayes, Lewis. 6th & Harrison (the End-Up)
Raw - Neon Leon, Jan Cooley, David Harness & guests - 540 Howard - 415.243.8181
Ooga Booga - 2600 Watt Ave (upstairs @ country club lanes) - 916.484.4006
Apocalypse - 16th & Harrison, $7, all ages - 415.979.8411
        [04.29 - Demigod,DRC,Binnie,Ben,Galen,Kwashi,Frank Nitty,
                 Christophe, Gary Maxx, Chris Lum, R A W]

---------------------------- S a t u r d a y --------------------------------

Dorothy's Tribe - Neon Leon, Rick Preston, Tommy Rogers & guests
	6am-2pm at the EndUp, 401 6th @ Harrison.  $2.  415.979.4515
Funky Buddha - presented by Spundae - 435 Broadway, 9pm til late.
        Head on House DJs: Simon, Henrik, Ernie, Jay-J, Mic, Eric Lacy, Josh.
        House of Funk & Killa Grooves: Bam Bam, Miquel, Melvin J, John Howard
        21+, $8 before midnite.  415.764.2922
Dig! - DJs George and Charlotte. the Kennel Club, Divisadero & Grove.
        [next one April 30th]
Contact! - various guest DJs. $5, 18+, 2721 Broadway, Sacramento.  916.484.5661

------------------------------ S u n d a y ----------------------------------

Groove Morning - 6am-3pm, 18+, $5.  Mission Rock, China Basin.  415.905.6441
Sunday School - Tommy Roger, Aaron O, Swing Kid, Smile-E.  6am-midnight.
        free before 2, $2 after.  the EndUp (6th & Harrison).  415.543.7700
Signs of Life - 375 11th @ Harrison (DNA).  $3, 6am-3pm, 21+
Good Housekeeping - presented by Flavor - w/sound technicians Alfie, James,
        Markie, Harry Who & live guests.  7am-4pm, $4, 21+.  
        spuds & stuff @ 9.  1190 Folsom St, SF.   415.928.2710
Light-n Up - 1015 Folsom, 21+, 9am-5pm.  415.267.7615
Sunset - 2pm-sunset. Free! - 415.985.5264

Bulletproof boat party - 5-9pm pier 40 (usually last Sunday of each month) 
        Tickets at Bulletproof 629 Haight (255.7168)
Ameba Ambient Tofu BBQ + films - BBQ lit at 5pm; bring BBQables, blankets,
        records.  1732 Haight.
Spundae - various guest DJs - 9pm-5am, 21+, $5 b4 12 - 55 Natoma. 415.974.9389
I-Beam Tea Dance - Neon Leon & others - 5pm-1am. 1748 Haight.

------------------------------ M o n d a y ----------------------------------

Mushroom Jazz (Jazid Up)- acid jazz w/Mark Farina, Thomas, Ammon, Is,
	Alex, Kevin, Bob Taylor and/or Julius Papp.
	$4, 10pm-4am.  1190 Folsom St, 21+. 415-905-8811
FreeLife - every other Monday at 551 W.Julian (@ Montgomery) in San Jose.
Pepper - various djs - 510 larkin @ turk  (Deco), 21+

----------------------------- T u e s d a y ---------------------------------

Together/Happiness - 21+, $5, 1015 Folsom - 10pm-3:30am - 415-979-8825
Check - rare grooves & house - Alfie, James & guests - 
        the I-Beam, 1748 Haight @ Cole.  21+, $2.  415.668.6006
Body and Soul - Larry Blakes, Berkeley 10pm-2am, acid jazz and funk $3

--------------------------- W e d n e s d a y -------------------------------

Motion - 400 S 1st St, SJ (side entrance of F/X). 21+.  408-236-3732
Fixx - Jan Cooley, Phillip, Aaron, Neon Leon.  Cocktails, 9th & Howard.
Stone Groove - acid jazz n' cosmic funk.  presented by Bulletproof.
        $3, 21+, 9pm-2am.  Miss Pearl's, 601 Eddy @ Larkin.  415.255.7168.
        [April DJs - Mark Farina, Gavan, Dani, Alex, Kevin, Gerry V, Kirk,
                     Andrew (Groove Merchant), Harry Who]
SPAZ (Semi-Permanent Autonomous Zone), 2 sound systems, new DJs and live
        performances each week.  $3, 60 Sixth Street.  info 415.sols666 
        [4/27 - Captain Bastard mans the moongarden > court is being held
         by Sir Sensual > DJ Sunflrfish and the disco balls >>>]
Recycle - every other Weds w/Carlos, Dutch, Christophe & guests. 415.599.3750
Pacific - 683 Clementina @ 8th (between Folsom & Howard) - 
        Starts at 10pm, $5.  415.985.5264
Gemini - josh, spun, donald glaude, la paix, rick preston, dj dan,
        carlos & dutch.  415.979.4915

------------------------------- Info Lines ----------------------------------

Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087.  Usually has 5-10 listings, updated daily.
Elmo - 415-884-ABCD
Freak Out - 415.485.6597

------------------------------ Radio Shows ----------------------------------
Sunday mornings 1-3:30am - Minor Minor KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Sunday evening 6:30-9pm - Mescalina, KALX 90.7 (Berkeley)
Sunday evening 9-11pm - Universal radio at 89.1 FM.  Trance dance
        and power house.  Guest DJs weekly (SF & East Bay)
Sunday night 10pm-2am - Ambience w/Michael Hayes & David X  KWOD 106.5 (Sac)
Mondays 10pm - Belladonna, KFJC 89.7, Foothill College (Los Altos Hills)
Tuesdays noon-3pm - "London Jamaica" w/Unknown KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
weeknights ~9pm - the Modern Mix w/Steve Masters KITS 105.3 (SF)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has info on any other events, submit them! I can't possibly hope
to get all the info every week. 

Brian Behlendorf, bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu, and
Derek Chung, dhchung@us.oracle.com, 415-506-6195

To s*bscribe or uns*bscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
majordomo@sfraves.stanford.edu with either the line

s*bscribe sfraves-calendar   or
uns*bscribe sfraves-calendar   

(type 'u' in place of the '*' - i've taken out the 'u' so this message
 passes thru majordomo's filter)

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 19:35:21 1994
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	id AA09593; Thu, 28 Apr 94 19:35:13 PDT
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 19:35:25 PDT
From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Message-Id: <9404290235.AA23682@bethe.ucdavis.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: I want reviews ...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


> .... In other words where would you tell a
> friend to check out ?  Ameba BBQ ? Funky Buddha? Reviews I want reviews!
> Mike 
 
Last Saturday I went to a party with friends and then we wanted to go out.
I was sorta looking forward to the doubled-up free party thinking the
price was right and maybe more people would be there (being two parties).

I guessed that Organic would be expensive.

Anyway, we went to Funky Buddha mostly because there was supposed to be
House and HipHop/AcidJazz.  We arrived at 3.  Only payed $2.50 each because
it was late (I guess) - I think it was $10 earlier.  I had never been there
before. 

I expected a total singles scam scene because it was Saturday night.
It wasn't so bad.  Some people said hello - which I thought was pleasant.
Unfortunately, the House room (larger of the two) was really loud and gave
me an instant headache.  The HipHop dj's stopped right as we got there.
Got water for free and tipped the friendly bartender.

Overall, I'd say it was mostly a bar/club atmosphere.
We didn't stay too long cuz everyone seemed to be leaving - I concluded
that it isn't much of an "after-hours" place.
It had a nice view of downtown though ...

Dave


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 20:29:37 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 20:29:44 PDT
From: alves@bethe.ucdavis.edu (David Alves)
Message-Id: <9404290329.AA23745@bethe.ucdavis.edu>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are we here?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


My words of advice to the weary and sad Sean who eloquently poses the 
question, "Why are we here?"

>Why are we here? I've begun to wonder about that lately.  The last six
>months has shown a dramatic rise in flame wars and personal attacks.

I think the list has been flowing fairly smoothly lately.

> ... Everything we post here every day is the
>spirit and soul of our community, our public message.

Sean, I think you (sorry for the second person) are taking this 
email-discussion-list we call sfraves a little bit *too* seriously

>We've all made mistakes. Are we going to repeat them? Are we creatures
>of intent or action?

Just for the record, I never make any mistakes ...
And, I am a man of action
Or, maybe I am the man of steel - I forget

>How *could* people be seeing sfraves as an undesirable crowd? 

I can't imagine anyone thinking we are a bunch of undesirables.
We sit around and chat about cool places to dance and our dreams
of lovely fruit platters.

> ... It makes one weary and sad.
> Sean

Please don't get all weary and sad over something like flame wars
on the internet - even if it is the almighty sfraves.  
There are a lot of different people on this list. 
I think that is a big plus.

I wish you the best.
Dave


From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 21:11:12 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 14:08:00 PDT
From: grigsby@agames.com (JUMP IN THE FIRE)
Message-Id: <9404282108.AA09213@agames.agames.com>
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Two respectful requests
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


1) When replying to a message, please don't send it both to the list and
to a person on the list.  I am getting two copies of everything in this
discussion.
2) Could people please keep personal contractual disputes off the net?
(the whole list, I mean)  A synopsis of the deal/problems is fine so we
know what's up, but "am not/are too" should probably stay on private email.
I share some guilt in this.

Just a thought.

// g

From sfraves-owner  Thu Apr 28 23:42:30 1994
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	(1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA27638; Fri, 29 Apr 94 02:39:40 -0400
From: dublhitmky@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
Message-Id: <9404290239.tn120440@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 02:39:36 EDT
Subject: Anyone from L.A.?
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hey all you L.A. ravers out there send me some mail telling me who you are. 
I used to live in L.A. and used to work at 'Family Groove', when it went off
on Saturday nights at the Hong-Kong Cafe in Chinatown.  I'm now in Chicago,
been gone for about 6 months, but would like to hook back up with some old
friends.
Oh and if anyone is going to Sound Factory this weekend Doc Martin is
spinning there, someone tell him Blitz that used to work with Jaqueline at
Family Groove said WWWWUUUUZZZZ UP!!!  Send all responses directly to my
Internet address which is 'dublhitmky@aol.com'.

PEACE,
  LOVE,
    & UNITY,

           BLITZ

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 00:18:23 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 01:13:08 -0600 (MDT)
From: Elijah Lewis <jahlewis@csn.org>
Subject: E-core offline
To: mtnraves@xmission.com
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9404290108.B2975-a100000@teal>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU


Hey all net-ravers!

I will be off the net for while, due to moving and a variety of other things.
I need to take care of some stuff, and get away from the negativety of how
the net/cyberrave/info-highway ass been for me lately. I am still doin
events almost weekly in the four corners area, and texas. Peace to you all
and if you need to absoultly reach me, or want to get me dme some
informaytion of any kind here is how to find me

jahlewis@csn.com
303/575-1330 <vm>

feeel the vibe!

Eagle

<<<<if you wanna play with the eagles, you must first learn to fly>>>>>>



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 05:32:07 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 08:32:43 -0400
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: will@panix.com (WILL-E)
Subject: visiting in May
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Hey all, just wanted to let you know it's official

Phil Z and I are coming to San Francisco finally!

We're arriving on May 12 and I'll be staying with Laura & Brian that first
weekend... thanks you two!

I'll be spinning at the Blue Cube party on Saturday the 14th so I hope to
meet many of you finally as well as seeing lots of familiar faces & old
friends who have been on the east coast.

excited!

                      ___
 / /  /  /  /   /  _  __/
(_/__/  /  (__ (__  ___/



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 05:58:51 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 05:56:47 -0700
From: geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199404291256.FAA28519@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Clipper Chip 2/ Wired (fwd)
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Before someone flames me about whether this is rave related or not,
imagine what the Scene would be like if this were england and the government
could evesdrop on everything you said or every e-mail that you sent.

Hit delete now if you don't want to hear this...




Forwarded message:
>From carter@drum.ncsc.org Thu Apr 28 07:22:50 1994
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 09:58:22 EDT
From: carter@drum.ncsc.org (Carter E. Bing)
Message-Id: <9404281358.AA06661@drum.ncsc.org>
Subject: Clipper Chip 2/ Wired
Content-Type: text/plain
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Courtesy-Of: NCSA Mosaic 2.1 on Sun
X-Url: http://wired.com/clipper/privacy.meeks.html
Apparently-To: tech@drum
Apparently-To: blackspace@drum

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=-=-Copyright 1993,4 Wired USA Ltd.  All Rights Reserved=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=For complete copyright information, please see the end of this file=-=-
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WIRED 2.04

Electrosphere

The End Of Privacy

Did you know there's a working group of security agents and telecommunications
companies designing backdoors into the information infrastructure? Now you do. 

By Brock N. Meeks 

[Note: The following article will appear in the April 1994 issue of WIRED. We,
the editors of WIRED, are net-casting it now in its pre-published form as a
public service. Because of the vital and urgent nature of its message, we
believe readers on the Net should hear and take action now. You are free to pass
this article on electronically; in fact we urge you to replicate it throughout
the net with our blessings. If you do, please keep the copyright statements and
this note intact. For a complete listing of Clipper-related resources available
through WIRED Online, send email to with the following message: "send
clipper.index". - The Editors of WIRED] 

If privacy isn't already the first roadkill along the information superhighway,
then it's about to be. The panel members didn't try to finesse the subject. They
went right for the privacy jugular, saying law enforcement agencies wanted to
"front load" the NII with trapdoor technologies that would allow them easy
access to digital conversations, including capturing electronic communications
midstream. 

But these are tools the "good guys" said would be used only to catch the "bad
guys." Honest. We hard-working, law-abiding citizens have nothing to fear from
these cops selling out our privacy rights to make their jobs easier. Nope, we
can rest easy, knowing that child pornographers, drug traffickers, and organized
crime families will be sufficiently thwarted by law enforcement's proposed
built-in gadgetry, which they want to hang off every telephone and data network,
not to mention fax machine and PBX. 

There's just one small crack in this logic: No law enforcement agency has yet
proven it needs all these proposed digital trapdoors. In fact, "Right now most
law enforcement personnel don't have any idea what the NII is," this according
to Assistant US Attorney Kent Walker, who appeared on the panel. 

Gore Gives Go Ahead

In January, Vice President Gore had promised that the White House would work to
ensure that the NII would "help law enforcement agencies thwart criminals and
terrorists who might use advanced telecommunications to commit crimes." Panel
members representing the Justice Department, FBI, and US Attorney's office said
they had taken his promise as a tacit approval of their proposals to push for
digital wiretap access and government-mandated encryption policies. 

Gore buried those remarks deep in a speech he made in Los Angeles in which he
fleshed out how the administration planned to rewrite the rules for
communications in a new, perhaps more enlightened age. His pledge went unnoticed
by the mainstream press. 

Notwithstanding that it fell on reporters' deaf ears, Gore dropped a bombshell.
Forget Ross Perot's NAFTA-inspired "giant sucking sound." This was the dull
"thump" of Law Enforcement running over the privacy rights of the American
public on its way **at the on-ramp??**to the information superhighway. The real
crime is that the collision barely dented the damn fender. 

Walker blithely referred to this cunning, calculated move to install
interception technologies all along the information superhighway as "proactive"
law enforcement policy. Designing these technologies into future networks, which
include all telephone systems, would ensure that law enforcement organizations
"have the same capabilities [they] enjoy right now," Walker said. 

For today's wiretap operations, the Feds must get a court to approve their
request, after supplying enough evidence to warrant one. But Walker seemed to be
lobbying for the opposite. Giving the Feds the ability to listen in first and
give justification later amounts to "no big difference," he said. Besides, "it
would save time and money." 

And Walker promised that law enforcement would only use this power against evil,
never abusing it. "Frankly, I don't see the empirical evidence that law
enforcement agencies have abused [wiretap authority]," he said. With a straight
face. 

It's Us vs. Them

For Walker, privacy issues weighed against law-enforcement needs is a
black-and-white, or rather good-guys-versus-bad-guys, issue. For example, he
said, the rapid rise of private (read: not government-controlled) encryption
technologies didn't mean law enforcement would have to work harder. On the
contrary, "it only means we'll catch fewer criminals," he said. 

But if law enforcement is merely concerned with the task of "just putting the
bad guys in jail," as James Settle, head of the FBI's National Computer Crime
Squad insists, then why are we seeing a sudden move by government intelligence
agencies into areas they have historically shied from? Because law enforcement
agencies know their window of opportunity for asserting their influence is open
right now, right at the time the government is about to make a fundamental shift
in how it deals with privacy issues within the networks that make up the NII,
says David Sobel, general counsel for Computer Professionals for Social
Responsibility, who also addressed the Working Group on Privacy. 

"Because of law enforcement's concerns (regarding digital technologies), we're
seeing an unprecedented involvement by federal security agencies in the domestic
law enforcement activities," Sobel said, adding that, for the first time in
history, the National Security Agency "is now deeply involved in the design of
the public telecommunications network." 

Go ahead. Read it again. 

Sobel backs up his claims with hundreds of pages of previously classified memos
and reports obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. The involvement of
the National Security Agency in the design of our telephone networks is, Sobel
believes, a violation of federal statutes. 

Sobel is also concerned that the public might soon be looking down the throat of
a classified telecommunications standard. Another move he calls "unprecedented"
is that - if the National Security Agency, FBI, and other law enforcement
organizations have their way - the design of the national telecommunications
network will end up classified and withheld from the public.**These two
sentences are the same** 

Sobel is dead on target with his warnings. 

The telecommunications industry and the FBI have set up an ad hoc working group
to see if a technical fix for digital wiretapping can be found to make the
bureau happy. That way, legislation doesn't need to be passed that might mandate
such FBI access and stick the Baby Bells with the full cost of reengineering
their networks. 

The industry-FBI group was formed during a March 1992 meeting at the FBI's
Quantico, Virginia, facilities, according to previously classified FBI documents
released under the Freedom of Information Act. The group was only formalized
late last year, under the auspices of the Alliance for Telecommunications
Industry Solutions. The joint group operates under the innocuous sounding name
of the Electronic Communications Service Provider Committee. 

The committee meets monthly, pursuing a technological "solution" to the FBI's
request for putting a trapdoor into digital switches, allowing agents easy
access to phone conversations. To date, no industry solution has been found for
the digital-wiretap problem, according to Kenneth Raymond, a Nynex telephone
company engineer, who is the industry co-chairman of the group. 

Oh, there's also a small, but nagging problem: The FBI hasn't provided concrete
proof that such solutions are needed, Raymond said. Sobel, of Computer
Professionals for Social Responsibility, raised this same point during the panel
discussion. 

The telecommunications industry is "trying to evaluate just what is the nature
of the [digital-access] problem and how we can best solve it in some reasonable
way that is consistent with cost and demand," Raymond said. One solution might
be to write digital wiretap access into future switch specifications, he said. 

If and when the industry does find that solution, do you think the FBI will put
out a press release to tell us about it? "I doubt it very much," said FBI agent
Barry Smith of the Bureau's Congressional Affairs office. "It will be done
quietly, with no media fanfare." 

Underscoring Sobel's warnings was the little-noticed move by the Commerce
Department to establish the Federal Wireless Policy Committee. The work of this
seemingly benign committee will be "invaluable" as the administration evaluates
key issues in wireless communications with the NII, said Larry Irving,
administrator of the National Telecommunications Information Agency. But the
devil is in the details. The policy committee's four subcommittees include
Policy, Standards and Requirements, Security and Privacy, and Acquisitions.
Standards and Requirements is headed by Richard Dean, a National Security Agency
official. And Security and Privacy is to be chaired by Raymond Kammer of the
National Institute of Standards and Technology. Kammer's organization, of
course, is knee-deep responsible for the government's Clipper Chip encryption
scheme. 

Is it just me or are these headlights getting awfully close? 

The FBI's Settle is also adamant about trapdoor specifications being written
into any blueprints for the National Information Infrastructure. But there's a
catch. Settle calls these "security measures," because they'll give his office a
better chance at "catching bad guys." He wants all networks "to be required to
install some kind of standard for security." And who's writing those standards?
You guessed it: The National Security Agency, with input from the FBI and other
assorted spook agencies. 

Settle defends these standards, saying that the "best we have going for us is
that the criminal element hasn't yet figured out how to use encryption and
networks in general. When they do, we'll be in trouble. We want to stay ahead of
the curve." 

In the meantime, his division has to hustle. The FBI currently has only 25 "Net
literate" personnel, Settle admitted. "Most of these were recruited two years
ago," he said. Most have computer science degrees and were systems
administrators at one time, he said. 

You think that's funny? Hell, the Net is still a small community, relatively
speaking. One of your friends is probably an FBI Net snitch, working for Settle.

Don't laugh. 

The law enforcement establishment doesn't think you really know what you expect
when it comes to privacy. 

Assistant US Attorney Walker said: "If you ask the public, 'Is privacy more
important than catching criminals?' They'll tell you, 'No.'" 

(Write him with your own thoughts, won't you?) **e-mail addresses here for our
outraged readers to express themselves - We haven't got addresses for Walker.
There's president@whitehouse.gov and vice- president@whitehouse.gov....** 

Because of views like Walker's, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act "needs
to be broader," said Mike Godwin, legal counsel for the Electronic Frontier
Foundation. The act protects transmitted data, but it also needs to protect
stored data, he said. "A person's expectation of privacy doesn't end when they
store something on a hard disk." 

But Walker brushed Godwin aside, saying, "It's easy to get caught up in the
rhetoric that privacy is the end all be all." **correct cliche is "the be- all
and end-all"** 

Do you have an expectation of privacy for things you store on your hard disk, in
your own home? Walker said that idea is up for debate: "Part of this working
group is to establish what is a reasonable expectation of privacy." 

That's right. Toss everything you know or thought you knew about privacy out the
window, as you cruise down the fast lane of the information superhighway. Why?
Because for people like Walker, those guardians of justice, "there has to be a
balance between privacy needs and law enforcement needs to catch criminals." 

Balance, yes. Total abrogation of my rights? Fat chance. 



Brock N. Meeks (brock@well.sf.ca.us) is a frequent contributor to WIRED. He is a
reporter for Communications Daily, a Washington, DC-based trade publication. 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=WIRED Online Copyright Notice=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

           Copyright 1993,4 Wired USA Ltd.  All rights reserved.

  This article may be redistributed provided that the article and this 
  notice remain intact. This article may not under any circumstances
  be resold or redistributed for compensation of any kind without prior 
  written permission from Wired Ventures, Ltd.

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  about licensing materials from WIRED Online, please contact us via 
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       WIRED and WIRED Online are trademarks of Wired Ventures, Ltd.

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----- End Included Message -----


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 08:21:44 1994
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Date: 26 Apr 1994 09:40:26 -0800
From: "Scott Nozawa" <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>
Subject: Re: Wed.-Motion-Simon
To: "SpaceDancers" <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

                       Subject:                               Time:9:15
  OFFICE MEMO          RE>Wed.-Motion-Simon                   Date:4/26/94
>Sfravers,
>Ravers in South Bay unite! SIMON  will be at MOTION in San Jose. 400 S. !st
>Street. With Dj Loren. 9:00 to 2:00am
>(408)-236-3732--New Info line.

Also, please note that there are three Djs playing that evening Simon, Loren
and Tamotsu ( me ).   Anyone who can possibly make it down, please do so!!!
The party starts at 9pm and lasts only until 2am.  It is important to get to
the party promptly at 9pm to hear the full story. ( not to mention I play
first)  This party will slam so start the journey at the begining and enjoy the
ride!!!!!  

Peace & Strength              Tamotsu Scot



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 08:36:54 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 08:24:25 PDT
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Message-Id: <9404291524.AA22717@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM>
To: meclay@netcom.com
Subject: Positive stuff
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves-planners@techno.Stanford.EDU
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Mike asks:
> do others of you have
> groups of people that you have found to be very positive? I am in search
> of the most positive of responses. In other words where would you tell a
> friend to check out ? 

Well this Sunday, Ovid and I will be hanging out at Light-n Up.  One room
features acid jazz and another is your standard techno/house.  I usually 
always have a good time there and it's the type of party where you can
dance/trance *and* socialize.  I'll be there dropping teaser flyers for
_In The Light_  and I'll have extras with me in case anyone wants to help
flyer for SFRaves's upcoming party in the park.

I'll be wearing a hat with a question mark on the back of it.  If Ovid
and I seem to be overly engrossed in a conversation about raving's link 
to the Quantum mechanical nature of reality, feel free to interrupt us;
the Universe isn't going anywhere just yet.  If you're new to SFRaves, 
I will be happy to introduce you to every SFRaver I know who happens to 
be there.

Light-n up is at 1015 Folsom.  It doesn't really start hopping until about
1pm.  I plan to be there at around 12:30.

It has been generally agreed that the consistantly best party over the
last 3 years has been ComeUnity, also at 1015 Folsom.  It happens once a
month, and is happening again this Wednesday nite.  I will be there, and
so will a lot of SFRavers.  If you want to meet some of us, or just want
to go to a great party, this one is it.  I highly recommend that people go
to these parties because 1015 Folsom, one of the best indoor venues in
the City, is having some legal troubles; i.e. enjoy it while you still can.

> I'm a not much of a joiner so it's easy for me to gladly move from group
> to group without much concern for becoming a tight part of a clique. 

The reported cliquishness of SFRavers is a bit overblown.  Some of us are
more friendly than others, some of us have strong friendships outside the
SFRaves sphere.   SFRavers come in all sizes and shapes - and yes, we can 
be assholes too.  Many SFRavers happen to be more comfortable socializing
from behind terminals, or mainly with silicon-based entities.  For many, 
raving is a way to just *be* with people without having to get real close 
to them.  I too have never been much of a "group" joiner, preferring to 
connect with people on an individual basis.  The only real clique I belong 
to is the one I have with my wife. :-)

>I will gladly share postive vibes wherever I find them and the more the
> better..

I think you'll find that there are plenty of positive vibes around;
sometimes they lie just beneath the surface, waiting to be prodded into
the open.  Our society continues to train us to mistrust one another, so
it is no surprise that empathy/acceptance/love doesn't happen 
automatically wherever we go, even at raves.  Anyway, Ovid and I look
forward to meeting you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 09:12:25 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:08:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sun Kim <sunkim@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Re: FMR (not SLC related...)
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <9404282311.AA29843@coreys.maggot>
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On Thu, 28 Apr 1994, Gregg Helt wrote:

> 	So was there a FMR?  We followed a rumor Monday night, then heard 
> it would be Tuesday.  Did it happen?

Yes, it did happen. We got to Tuesday/Wednesday's Full Moon around 3:30.
After going to the park off Central, we tried a few more places before
going to Pt. Reyes. There was Markie spinning. It seemed like 'regular'
(whatever that is) house music and then he got into a bit more trippy
stuff. It was a small crowd of less than a 100. Everyone seemed to be have
a good time. I know I did. Garth came on later and played music that was
different but still trippy. The cops came about 7:30 to tell 'em to turn
the music off. Garth played one more record and just let it play as they
all started packing. Allen, Trisha, and Garth danced behind the turntables
while the music finished. The two cops and guy just talked until the record
ended.
 
I ended up staying at the park until about 1:30. It was a beautiful day out
and some even played in the 6 foot tall dried plants over the other side of
the park. What a fun afternoon. I got to see friends which I hadn't for a
month which was very nice.


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 09:25:08 1994
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Date: 29 Apr 1994 09:24:04 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: hurl this url
To: socal-raves@UCSD.EDU, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Message-Id: <01HBQQFKQ5J6002VJH@EDEN1.HAC.COM>
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hey, found a whole bunch o' muzik samples on mosaic today, here's the URL:

   http://rg.media.mit.edu/RG/RG.html

sample files are in 22khz and 8khz format, kinda grainy, but tolerable...

  (nothing like the keen-o sfraves collection)

seeya!

Dave Scruton

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 09:29:24 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:31:07 -0800
To: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate), sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: blue cube 5/14/94
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  5:09 PM 4/28/94 -0700, analog resonate wrote:

>***************************************************************************
>                                Saturday
>
>                             May 14th 1994
>
>                                SFRaves
>                            Blue Cube Party
>
>                             San Francisco 
>
>                   DJs: Meme, Laura, Lee, Will, Ethan
>
>                        for info/directions email
>                          resonate@netcom.com 
>                        with subject line: INFO
>
>***************************************************************************

Heh, heh. 
My birthday weekend too. I think I' gonna get loopy ;-) 
See ya'll there.

ethan



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 09:33:30 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:35:04 -0800
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: nrg@netcom.com (ethan miller)
Subject: Re: blue cube 5/14/94
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

At  5:09 PM 4/28/94 -0700, analog resonate wrote:

>***************************************************************************
>                                Saturday
>
>                             May 14th 1994
>
>                                SFRaves
>                            Blue Cube Party
>
>                             San Francisco 
>
>                   DJs: Meme, Laura, Lee, Will, Ethan
>
>                        for info/directions email
>                          resonate@netcom.com 
>                        with subject line: INFO
>
>***************************************************************************

Heh, heh. 
My birthday weekend too. I think I' gonna get loopy ;-) 
See ya'll there.

ethan



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 09:44:22 1994
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Date: 29 Apr 1994 09:43:03 -0800 (PST)
From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com
Subject: neat-o t-shirt offer
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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From:	EDEN1::IN%"SCRUTON@delphi.com" 28-APR-1994 22:15:02.12
To:	IN%"scruton@joyce"
CC:	
Subj:	shirt

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From: SCRUTON@delphi.com
Subject: shirt
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From:	IN%"pam5@midway.uchicago.edu" 28-APR-1994 14:59:15.14
To:	IN%"SCRUTON@delphi.com"
CC:	
Subj:	WARES - TShirt

Return-path: <fringeware@io.com>
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 02:40:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: fringeware@io.com (FringeWare Inc)
Subject: WARES - TShirt
To: SCRUTON@delphi.com
Errors-to: fringeware-owner@io.com
Reply-to: pam5@midway.uchicago.edu ("Peter A. McNamara")
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List-Server: fringeware-request@io.com

Sent from: pam5@midway.uchicago.edu ("Peter A. McNamara")


I realize that the date on this has just about run out, but I just
got a hold of it, so I thought I'd pass it on... maybe he can be
convinced to keep the date open (I think its a school-related
deadline)

Pete
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Show your concern for cyberspace civil rights and make fun of the NSA at
the same time!

At the last Computers, Freedom and Privacy conference, an interesting
idea for a t-shirt was jokingly suggested, ironicly, by one of the 
participants from the NSA.   I thought it was a cool idea, so I arranged
to have some printed.  Roughly, it looks like:


         1984
         +---+
         |(O)|   <---- halftone of an eye
         +---+
     "We're Behind
        Schedule"
National Security Agency


The design will be printed in white ink on a black, dark blue, dark
green, or maroon shirt.  The back of the shirt is the "Cyber Rights
Now!" logo from Wired magazine.  It will only cost $15 to get one for
yourself, which includes postage for shipping within the United States.

The design looks great, but you don't have to trust me.  To see the
design for yourself, fire up Mosaic,Lynx or other WWW client, and
connect to:
http://phoenix.aps.muohio.edu/users/jdblair/t-shirt.html

Mosaic will show you a bitmap of the design, and ascii based clients
should allow you to download a gif of the image.

The design is also available via anonymous ftp from:
ftp.atd.ucar.edu:/pub/Crypto
ftp.wimsey.bc.ca:/pub/crypto/shirt

Be sure to set the transfer method to Binary.

The Web page describes how to order the shirt, as well as prices for
shipping outside of the United States.  If you don't have access to
a Web client, e-mail me at:

jdblair@nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu

for more information.

If you're interested, I will be accepting orders for the first printing
run until April 27.  I realize that this day is approaching quickly... I
will be printing extras, and if necessary will arrange for a second 
printing run.


- -john.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Blair: <jdblair@nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu>         voice: (513) 529-4877
http://phoenix.aps.muohio.edu/users/jdblair/home.html            KILL YOUR
PGP public key available upon request                           TELEVISION
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.3

iQBVAgUBLbWrAYuQSr5WjekpAQF+bAIAnH5jX5tBTxSuNRa37PTlCMM65mLuWHoc
iRMtdT1frzQ76KkKYmxPSqj68EGKQfnyzzM7yDWhPxzpLzQvOJvtZQ==
=B1uh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

1984 NSA T-Shirt Ordering Information


What will it look like?

The design will be printed in white ink on a dark colored shirt. The 
front design is:

         1984
         +---+
         |(O)|  <--- half-tone picture of an eye
         +---+
     "We're Behind
        Schedule"
National Security Agency

The text is EuroStyle Extended.  The eye will be rendered in a coarse
half-tone, which should silk-screen pretty well.  The back of the shirt is
the "Cyber Rights Now" fist and lightning logo from Wired Magazine. 
The shirts are 100% cotton.  Available shirt colors are black, navy, 
dark green, and maroon. Available sizes are L, XL, and XXL.  3XL is also
available for an extra $2/shirt in the same colors, excluding maroon.


Where can I see the design?

The design is available via WWW clients at:
http://phoenix.aps.muohio.edu/users/jdblair/t-shirt.html
Mosaic will display the images directly.  Lynx, as well as other ascii 
based systems, should let you download the gifs to your local system.

It is also available via anonymous ftp at:
ftp.atd.ucar.edu:/pub/Crypto
ftp.wimsey.bc.ca:/pub/crypto/shirt


How much does it cost?

The t-shirt is priced at $15 if sent to an address within the United
States. For addresses in Canada, the price is $16. For addresses in
most of Western Europe, the price is $18. If you wish the shirt to be
shipped outside of these areas, please e-mail me for pricing information.
If you can come pick it up from me personally, the charge is only $13. 


How do I get one? 

Unfortunately, the Cypherpunks don't have any digicash on-line (yet), so
you'll have to snail-mail me the money.  To guarentee a shirt, I must 
receive your order by Wednsday, April 27. I realize this day is approaching
quickly... I will be printing extras in case I receive orders after this
day, and will arrange for a second printing run if there is interest.
If all goes well, the shirts will be mailed by Saturday, May 14th. 

Make out your check or money order to: 
                John Blair

and send it to: 
                1984 T-Shirt 
                John Blair 
                210 Mary Lyon Hall 
                Oxford, OH 45056

Be sure to include the size, and color of the shirt you want, as well as a
snail-mail address where I should send the shirt, and an e-mail address
for confirmation of the order. Be sure to include a snail-mail address
that will be valid after May 14. 

Money order is preferable. If you send a check, I will have to wait until
the check clears before sending your shirt. 

Notice for international orders: Payment must be in U.S. Dollars. 

For more information, please e-mail me at: 
jdblair@nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu

I hope you enjoy the design. Thanks to all who offered suggestions while I
was refining the design, and for the un-expected interest. 


This file was last updated on 20.Apr.94.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.3

iQBVAgUBLbWtPIuQSr5WjekpAQFSawH+OYFm60ZJjOGpaeCQV68Khtqb0yL0B9td
8ZfN1GRX//R1LhFX8+N3cPSlixCgQXhqWucHyM6OZZzvqhlOxzJxnA==
=AmmL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 09:44:24 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sun Kim <sunkim@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Letter to Santa Cruz PD..
To: SF Raves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9404290922.A18143-0100000@mercury>
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Just curious, was the letter ever sent?  If it was sent, was there a 
response?


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 10:46:22 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 10:22:33 PDT
From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
Message-Id: <9404291722.AA07348@cassy.lurnix.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Bad stereotype
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I've had no less than three people tell me recently that they felt the
sfraves crowd was exclusionary and clubbish, and they didn't want to
have much to do with them because of their vibe. And I was surprised
to hear it, but who knows, maybe I have a deficit of perspective
lately. And these were mature, very friendly people who said this,
people I know and respect, so I consider their words carefully.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is bullshit.  This list is so wide and varied that this just can't
be truthfuly said.  Are these people that were on the list?  Probably not
which means they don' know what the hell they're talking about because
most of us have only met up to 20 other sfravers (rough estimate) so
I know there's no way non sfravers have met enough of us to form a valid
blanket opinion about us.


How *could* people be seeing sfraves as an undesirable crowd? Could it
have something to do with the viciousness and negativity expressed
here? Does it leak over into "real life", or perhaps it is the
unrestrained online expression of real life feelings? Or is it
something else? Why would anyone say that?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Gee, I don't know Sean, why didn't you ask them?

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 12:08:11 1994
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From: Brian Urmanita <urmanitb@ucs.orst.edu>
Reply-To: Brian Urmanita <urmanitb@ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: Re: Bad stereotype
To: sfraves <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <9404291722.AA07348@cassy.lurnix.com>
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I don't see how people can think of sfraves as exclusive clubby type-if it 
was I don't think I'd ever post or even be on the list!  Granted, I haven't 
met many people from the list;  I just know a few friends, but when I get 
home to California I know I'm going meet some people I'd be proud to call 
my friends.  Or maybe I'm just naive in my assumption to believe that the 
people here preach PLUR and when it comes down to the wire they are the 
same assholes that I went to high school with.
rave on-Brian 


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 12:09:50 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 15:09:44 EDT
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Message-Id: <9404291909.AA03638@pilot.njin.net>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Bad stereotype
In-Reply-To: <9404291722.AA07348@cassy.lurnix.com>
References: <9404291722.AA07348@cassy.lurnix.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Mark Guthrie writes:
[In response to some people I know saying they don't like the sfraves vibe]

 > This is bullshit.  This list is so wide and varied that this just can't
 > be truthfuly said.  Are these people that were on the list?  Probably not
 > which means they don' know what the hell they're talking about because
 > most of us have only met up to 20 other sfravers (rough estimate) so
 > I know there's no way non sfravers have met enough of us to form a valid
 > blanket opinion about us.

How could it possibly be bullshit? Everyone's experience is valid to
them, and until we start acknowledging this, how can we project
acceptance?

I won't name the people, or disclose whether or not they were on the
list. Because if I do, regardless of how enlightened they are, it will
only result in people attacking their credentials or motives, rather
than an open minded discussion of the issue. I would really like to
believe that this is not true, and it _is_ true for some, but even one
such attack is one too many.

 >> Why would anyone say that?

 > Gee, I don't know Sean, why didn't you ask them?

Sometimes we answer our own questions. Perhaps this sort of dripping
sarcasm is what turns some people from our group. I don't know. Can we
discuss something without being mean?

Instead of being automatically defensive, why don't we take a deep
breath, sit down, and think of ways to make things better. Think about
how we project ourselves both online and off.

Maybe my friends are just stupid. Maybe not. Why not give them the
benefit of the doubt, and think of ways we might be turning people
away, and strive to make it better?

Sean

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 12:29:29 1994
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From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199404291928.AA09121@crl.crl.com>
Subject: Liquid Air
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
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Greetings.  I'll be brief, i promise.  i recently acquired a small-ish
sound system for our listening pleasure.  i'm going to break it in this
coming saturday night, april 30th.  please call my voice mail number
(which is 415.486.8497) if you'd like to join me.  this is sort of a
Liquid Air Lite, but mostly just for fun. Lee An, Laura, Ethan, and I
will be generating some SPL, so stop by if you can.  Thanks!
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@crl.com-----
======================================= NEW ADDRESS =======

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 13:10:02 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 13:09:58 -0700
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Bryce writes:

>please call my voice mail number
>(which is 415.486.8497) if you'd like to join me.  

The number is (415) - 487 - 8497

Looking forward to seeing you there!

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 13:43:16 1994
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From: winston@lurnix.COM (Mark Guthrie)
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, uunet!pilot.njin.net!csc@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Bad stereotype
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

How could it possibly be bullshit? Everyone's experience is valid to
them, and until we start acknowledging this, how can we project
acceptance?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Because a few experiences with a few members of a group are not enough
to make gerneralizations on and I was a little offended (not by you Sean).
Evryone's experiences may be valid but there stereotypes may not be.


Sometimes we answer our own questions. Perhaps this sort of dripping
sarcasm is what turns some people from our group. I don't know. Can we
discuss something without being mean?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if this was perceived that way, I was being quite literal, not
sarcastic.


Instead of being automatically defensive, why don't we take a deep
breath, sit down, and think of ways to make things better. Think about
how we project ourselves both online and off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but I just knew this was wrong in a nano-second.  I didn't have
to ponder it.  But we should try to be aware of our projection.


Maybe my friends are just stupid. Maybe not. Why not give them the
benefit of the doubt, and think of ways we might be turning people
away, and strive to make it better?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

They're not stupid, they just stereotyped all 250-300 of us from a few
experiences.  We all do this to some degree but we strive not to and
point it out to each other when we do.            ^should

-Winston

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 14:10:59 1994
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From: Bryce Ryan <brycer@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199404292109.AA21767@crl.crl.com>
Subject: Liquid Air Number Mistake
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:09:39 -0700 (PDT)
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Sorry: is said it wrong...the number is 415-487-8497
-- 
Bryce Ryan ------- AMBIANCE ----------- brycer@crl.com-----
======================================= NEW ADDRESS =======

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 14:44:07 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sami Khoury <sk1@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: fighting
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, idm@techno.Stanford.EDU
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Despite the pleas for a cease fire, it continues.  So instead of trying 
to force ppl to shut up, how about this: if you're gonna flame what 
someone else said, just quote the *few* pertinent lines so those who care 
know what you're referring to.  I'm tired of scanning screenfulls for 
rave/idm related stuff and just seeing tons of ">".  Dammit, we're all on 
the same list!  We've seen the postings the first time around!

Incidentally, I have more respect for someone who takes a flame to 
private mail after they've been flamed/slammed/whatevered than for someone 
who tries to show the whole list who's the more clever laureate.  That's 
just my opinion, however, now hit the "d" key...and yes, I do see the 
self-reference present in this posting  ;)

later

Sami

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 15:35:04 1994
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Message-Id: <9404291835.tn09455@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 18:35:42 EDT
Subject: FREE PARTY 4/29
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Saturday April 29, 1994

The Renegade sound system will be making noise outdoors
With DJs John, Pat, and Justin

Hopefully it won't rain but if it does, we may have an alternate
indoor location.

Call (415) 485-6597 for more info

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 19:08:55 1994
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 19:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Wells <flux@netcom.com>
Reply-To: Jonathan Wells <flux@netcom.com>
Subject: Flux Television debut in SF
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Cc: manthra@netcom.com
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The music video show I first reported to the list several months ago is 
finally making its San Francisco debut (barring any unforeseen act of god).

The vast majority of SFRavers felt the show should air on Sunday rather 
than Thursday nights. So... This Sunday at 10PM and every Sunday night 
thereafter,  Flux Television can be seen on Viacom Cable Channel 47.

The first show leans a little alternative, but in the coming month we will 
have the new Future Sound of London video, an interview with Richard 
James, and more features.

We welcome your requests and feedback at <flux@netcom.com> or (415) 
281-3377.  -Jonathan Wells
 
Playlist for Sunday May 1st/in no particular order 

New Order	"Spooky"
Dead Can Dance	"The Carnival is Over"
Aphex Twin	"On"
Cocteau Twins	"Blue Beard"
Revolting Cocks	"Cracking Up"
Psychosonic	"Welcome to my..." 
Bjork		"Big Time Sensuality"





From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 19:43:25 1994
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From: Mark Metz / Future Forum <mmetz@soda.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199404300243.TAA06116@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Parties and stuff
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 19:43:26 -0700 (PDT)
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OK these are parties I was asked to post and the only thing 
I know is Im starting at Ozric Tenticles @ kennel club.
Eat Static is the techno manifestation of these space rockers.

FRIDAY NITE

Spiral /jive the recession session, free outdoor
281,8405  David , Thomas,Michael, das, Willard

Lock in or Subway ?  979,1120  breakin map point madness 10$
7$ if you are wearing something fabulous (ravey) lock - in after
1:00am I guess no ins or outs....Simon,tracy, and others.

Sat Nite

BASICS $10 415.905.9629 

29th &30th    salutations, allen@ameba
 
P.S. Liquid Air-ette (la petite) bon nuit ma charmante 

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 19:47:06 1994
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To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
From: choices@netcom.com (BASICS)
X-Sender: choices@netcom.com (Unverified)
Subject: BASICS APRIL 30TH
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

There will be a warehouse stylee BASICS party tomorrow, Saturday april 30.

Call the Basics voice mail tomorrow for line-up and location. 415.905.9629


From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 23:04:13 1994
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Subject: Call 408.684-3434 for party!
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 22:58:13 PDT
From: William Penna <wpenna@cruzio.com>
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-- 
Will Penna               408.423 8907
Be understanding and compassionate,
but not responsible for others.
                         ILLUMINATIONS   Paul and  Collins  HarperSan Francisco

From sfraves-owner  Fri Apr 29 23:45:49 1994
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From: Andrew Monko <n9010387@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Radio show
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On Wed, 27 Apr 1994, Bob Ramstad wrote:

> 
> Andrew Monko:
> 
> >it resulted in a sad dissolution to where going to a rave was (literally)
> >like going to a fucking frat party--meaning jock-o's w/o shirts, their
> >perfect tan girlfriends, and an egotistical-top40danceclub-attitude that
> >completely ruined the warm, postive vibe.  In addition, corporate rave
> 
> I just can't let this slide.  For me, my experiences in my fraternity
> were overwhelmingly positive.  I realize that this is not true for
> many people at many universities, but this depends on the attitude of
> the school and the members of the house(s) --- for example, the U of
> Washington fraternity system makes me positively ill.
> 
> I just feel compelled to say that this stereotype is just that, a
> stereotype, and if you were talking about skin color or religion or
> ancestry, people would call you on it for being way out of line.
> 
> Bob "yes, I was a frat-boy, and never had a perfect tan girlfriend,
> where do you sign up for one?" 
> 
> 

Bob,

	In my rant against 'mainstreamification' of rave  music/culture
I may have gotten carried away in my descriptions, but I believe it is
obvious the kind of pretentious crowd I referred to, and was not meant to
insult fraternity people who do not fit that description.  Stereotype, or
otherwise, I cannot recall ever attending a function with frat. people
where there was not a sickening atmosphere of meat-market machoism and
elitism. This kind of environment kills any possibility of a
friendly/positive vibe, be it SF, Seattle, or wherever.  Being from the
northwest, I guess I AM speaking of the U of W frat crowd, and if your
frat system differed in any way regarding attitude of this sort, could you
encourage them to move here?  If you indeed wish to debate this further,
let's do it e-mail.
  
	Again, my initial point was an ardent apprehension to encouraging
MTV-related personnel getting involved in the promotion of rave music/culture.
But as a blurb in the latest Newsweek affirms, Mr. Curry indeed has quit
MTV for internet pursuits, and I encourage his endeavor.
	

			>>>andrew<<<




From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 30 10:32:22 1994
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Date: 26 Apr 1994 13:35:57 -0800
From: "Scott Nozawa" <scott_nozawa1@quickmail.apple.com>
Subject: test
To: "SpaceDancers" <sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU>
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

                       Subject:                               Time:13:26
  OFFICE MEMO          test                                   Date:4/26/94
that is alllllllllllllllll



From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 30 19:59:35 1994
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Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 20:01:02 -0700
From: resonate@netcom.com (analog resonate)
Message-Id: <199405010301.UAA00796@netcom.netcom.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: blue^3 HOUSEMATE needed: aug 1
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

As of August 1st, satie3- the *other* Blue Cuban, will be out of the Blue
Cube and moved in with his girlfriend. His room will be OPEN and I am 
starting the search now to fill this then-to-be vacant room in my unique
household.

email me: Steve Lerner, resonate@netcom.com to apply

The Blue Cube:

	A freestanding 2 story house- no floors, ceilings, or walls shared
	with anyone else

	2 bedroom, 1 bathroom, eat in kitchen, breakfast room
	large party/dance/chill/living room suitable for parties,
	recording music, or having many guests sleep over.

	set off from the street with another house in front of it.

	Quiet Noe Valley district- 28th & Church

	parking is not a problem in the neighborhood but all the house
	dedicated parking is full

	site of SFRave parties

	storage space downstairs

	50 feet from Muni J line- 24 hour public transport
	walking distance to 24th street shops

	totally cool neighbors who don't mind loud all nite parties

	awesome landlord

The room:

	12' wide x 12' long x 8' high
	Hardwood floor
	wired for its own phone line
	small fireplace suitable for very small fires (wouldnt' recommend
	it unless you get a sealed screen for it though
	small brass chandelier
	decent sized closet

me:

	full time studio sound consultant/engineer
	musician
	internet dweller
	SFraver
	vegetarian
	completely manic about kitchen and bathroom cleanliness
	very into building stuff onto the house

Requirements:

	$550/mo rent subject to slight change if lease amount changes in
	august- I sign and maintain the lease.
	$550 deposit
	Need to demonstrate ability to pay rent either through employment
	or other support
	Non smoker
	No pets of *any* kind
	Needs to be able to maintain an immaculate household- sterile
	kitchen and bathroom
	not a heavy meat eater- i don't mind light chicken and fish cooking
	but no massive amounts of pork and cowbutt oven projects
	
Preferences:

	Musician
	Internet dweller

The room will be available to move into on August 1st although we can
probably get some stuff stored downstirs beforehand.
I am accepting applications NOW for this room. 

Sorry but no compromises on the "requirements" section. 

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 30 20:50:00 1994
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From: dublhitmky@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
Message-Id: <9404302350.tn12284@aol.com>
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 23:50:42 EDT
Subject: G.H.B.
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

Could anyone please tell me the chemical breakdown of GHB, the precursers,
and the necessary amounts of each precurser to synthesize GHB.  I would
appreciate this info, please send it directly to my Internet address which is
'dublhitmky@aol.com'.

PEACE

  BLITZ

From bbehlen  Sat Apr 30 21:27:49 1994
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From: bbehlen@techno.Stanford.EDU (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 21:27:42 PDT
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To: sfraves
Subject: a few more forwards...
Sender: sfraves-owner@techno.Stanford.EDU

I really should check mail here more often... sorry about the delay in
this.

>From phred@teleport.com  Mon Apr 25 13:15:38 1994
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 13:15 PDT
From: phred@teleport.com (Fred Heutte)
To: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: April Showers

  I came down to San Francisco this weekend with a mission . . . two
missions, actually.  One was to help my friend Mark the Lawyer witha
computer project.  The other was to get in some actual DJ time playing
music for actual people instead of just myself for a change.  So I'm
pleased to report, now that I'm back in sunny (!) Portland: mission(s)
accomplished!

The logistics for this weekend were complicated by the fact that I need
to move (like, *this week*!) from the house where I've lived the last
eight years to some as yet unidentified place.  But I felt that not
being around to apartment-search over the weekend would not be a major
loss, as I've got some good leads already.  And I really needed to get
out of town after a hellish month dealing with taxes, campaign spending
reports, hardware failures and all that other usual workaday stuff.

It was an unusual weekend, the first time in probably at least two years
I've gone to SF and not paid dime one to attend a 'rave'-related event.
In fact, where I was *nobody* paid admission.  I made up for it, though,
by going to see Pink Floyd at the Oakland Coliseum (stadium) on Friday
night (for -- gack -- 38 bux!!) thanks to an extra ticket from a friend
of mine.  I used to be a major Pink Floyd fan in, oh, about 1972 (oops,d
displaying my advanced age again :) but lost interest when Dark Side of
the Moon became some kind of generational anthem.  If you've never 
listened to pre-Dark Side Floyd, you should give it a try, especially
Meddle and Saucerful of Secrets and (in some parts, anyway, because it
was an overbloated, self-indulgent mess) Ummagumma.  A very interesting
look at a band trying to find a focus.  Well, they did find the focus,
it's that minor-major key change that underlies virtually everything they
do and gives their stuff that bittersweet bleak sound everyone loves about
the band.  

But mostly I went for the cultural experience, as a long-time fan (at 
least of their earlier work) I'd never actually seen them play and have
had little interest in seeking them out because I generally abhor the
mega-concert scene.  It was a mellow crowd, mostly, and quite a bit
older than I expected although the age range seemed fairly wide.  But
talk about huge!  55,000 tickets sold *each night*, I'm told, which
works out to a gross of about $2.5 million each night.  There are 39
cities listed on the tour t-shirt so probably at least 60 shows, each
likely to gross $1 million average.  We're talking major major major
bucks.  I think one Pink Floyd concert probably equates to an entire
week of admissions to all the clubs and raves and what-have-yous in
our circuit . . . times FIVE!

OK, cut to the chase -- the weather was fine, cool with little flu**y
clouds and a nice moon.  The music -- predictable, smoothly played.
I especially liked 'One of These Days' played at the end of the first
set, the only pre-Dark Side tune I recognized.  The second was less
interesting, plus there was continuous MTV-style video reaching the
usual levels of vapidity amidst high production values.  Excellent
light show, uninteresting lasers.  

Saturday afternoon I fulfilled part one of my mission by going over to
Ameba and taking a spin on the wheels of steel for about an hour and 45
minutes.  It was definitely my Sampler Set, including a special one-off
(which I affectionately dubbed the 'Change Will Come' segment) of
South African mbaqanga ('township jive') in honor of this week's elections.
Felt pretty good, actually, and though I didn't really have a full
complement of tracks from the various styles it was fun.  Got a big
reaction again to some of the stuff from the 'Havana Condensed' double
pack.  

It was around this time that news of the postponed Launch Pad came around.
Shortly thereafter, Bog from Spiral Jive dropped in to say that they were
going to try a renegade in Golden Gate Park starting at midnight and,
oh by the way, one of their DJs might not show up and would I be interested
in coming over, no promises about playing?  And I said of course!  Even
the idea of just being in the park with good sound despite the weather
(which had been alternating between sunbreaks and downpours all day) . . .
of course!

Allen and I and others stopped for a couple of hours at a party with
some of the Nux Vomica folks (interesting people and excellent home brew!),
then they dropped me off at the park on their way to the Troc for Organic.
I found the site easily enough, the sound was quite loud from a good
distance.  When I arrived, maybe a dozen folks were there with turntables,
a portable generator and two smallish but nice speaker cabinets; all
this not too far from the Great Highway so it was quite windy and chilly.

After a while Bryce and then Mike Wertheim, Cindy and other folks showed
up and we had a good time groovin' with the tunes and chatting it up.
But it *was* cold and by 3 there was still no indication that I'd get
a slot, so I prevailed on Bryce to give me a ride and I called it a night.

Sunday the weather improved somewhat.  I would have been interested in
meeting with Mathew Fox but Mission #2 superseded, so I dealt with that
during most of the afternoon.  Back to Ameba around 5 to find Allen
preparing the grill for the Ambient Tofu BBQ.  I'm sure Bryce will want
me to tell you he's *not* just an ambient DJ, but I'm also glad he
brought his good stuff and gave us a solid couple of hours.  It's
very pleasant out back of Ameba, it's the site of the old Haight St.
Theatre and Allen is recycling the spot for that particular use by
projecting films on one of the walls encircling a scrubby-grassy
sort of area incorporating the backyards of all the shops on the block.
Unfortunately the projector wasn't available last night but we made do
with a nice fire, marshmallows and graham crackers, you know, the whole
bit.  I spun after Bryce, then Topher and a little by Dave the Rave at
the end.  There were only about a dozen of us but it was nice until
around 10 when it began to rain.  I don't really have an 'ambient'
collection as that
s normally defined, so I picked out some interesting relatively beat-less
things to play ranging from my still-favorite Jade Warrior (from 1972!)
to Tangerine Dream to recent Alien Signal and Guerilla in Dub tracks.
And here's one for the dumb-mistakes-by-DJs confessional: I didn't notice
Bryce had pitched down one of the 1200s to -8 for his last track (at 45),
so when I put on an old John Martyn thing called 'Small Hours' I was
aghast at the error, but even the vocals didn't sound all that bad so
I faded it and went on . . . wonder if anyone noticed :)

It's a rare time I would miss both a Wicked and an Organic in the same
weekend, but that's what happens under constricted time conditions. 
I'll be back in May!

As for the Spiral Jive/Launch Pad thing, I only want to say it's my
observation that Allen was simply trying to help glue things together
in the scene; my observation of the Spiral Jive folks is that they are
much fewer in number and resources than sfraves, but they seem like
nie folks and are organized and have good ideas about how to pull
things off.  As I said when the idea came up, it seemed like a g ood
idea to me to have the two organizing groups communicate, but trying
to merge things at the last minute is tough under any circumstances.
And I don't mind that Launch Pad was postponed; the weather was just
not congenial.

This week I get to look for a place to live AND keep working on my
promo tape . . . stay tuned!!

And thanks again to Allen@Ameba for the hospitality. . .

phred


----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From pashdown@xmission.com  Tue Apr 26 06:12:43 1994
From: pashdown@xmission.com (Pete Ashdown)
Subject: Re: grand canyon
To: idm@techno.Stanford.EDU (Intelligent Dance Music),
        sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU (SF Raves),
        socal-raves@ucsd.edu (So Cal Raves)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 07:12:29 -0600 (MDT)

> Personally, I think that if there isn't something happening there, someone
> ought to think about planning something. Enough people have heard about
> the week-long rave at the start of August that if one is actually held,
> it should be easy to get the word out and bring in thousands of people
> from all over the place....

Well kids, I know that at least I will be out in the desert for at least one
weekend in August.  If you don't think its worth the drive, just ask the
people who came from Cali last year.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From eric@nit.AirTouch.COM  Tue Apr 26 08:29:52 1994
From: eric@nit.AirTouch.COM (Eric Pederson)
Subject: Re: grand canyon
To: pashdown@xmission.com (Pete Ashdown)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 08:28:20 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: idm@techno.Stanford.EDU, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU, socal-raves@ucsd.edu

Pete Ashdown writes...
> 
> > Personally, I think that if there isn't something happening there, someone
> > ought to think about planning something. Enough people have heard about
> > the week-long rave at the start of August that if one is actually held,
> > it should be easy to get the word out and bring in thousands of people
> > from all over the place....
> 
> Well kids, I know that at least I will be out in the desert for at least one
> weekend in August.  If you don't think its worth the drive, just ask the
> people who came from Cali last year.


the desert was ok, but that grocery store was the best!
-- 
Eric Pederson                                        AirTouch Communications
eric@nit.airtouch.com                                          (don't laugh)
eric@nit.pactel.com                                             510-210-8890


----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From robcamp@seas.gwu.edu  Tue Apr 26 09:03:21 1994
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 12:02:27 -0400
Message-Id: <199404261602.AA08310@gwusun.seas.gwu.edu>
To: nacb@gwuvm.gwu.edu, fringeware@io.com, seraves@american.edu,
        ne-raves@umdd.umd.edu, sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: "Cyberia" program guide, April 1994

Program Guide: "Cyberia"

Episode #15 April 1994


This is the final episode for this season, and we loaded it 
up with lots of computer animations.  They include works from
The Rochester Institute of Technology Brown University,
Texas A&M, George Tech, Ohio State's ACCAD, and Wisconsin,
plus computer animated music video from Microglobe and
Biosphere. 

C O M P U T E R   A N I M A T I O N

"Uaguzi"
Chris Walsh
Rochester Institute of Technology

It a period piece about a time when life was very simple ---
you hunted wild animals for food, and painted pictures on
your cave walls.  Those were the good ol' days 


"Deus Ex Machina"
Various Students
Georgia Tech

An old decrepit factory coming to life.
 

"The Visitor"
Rob Berry
Ohio State University

The feeling of mysterious energies making their presence
known.  


Various Works
Various Students
Texas A&M University

Four short works.  Pinball games, The Terminator, New agey
stuff, and a frog are the themes.


"Mr. Cube and the Dinosaur" - Jeff Beall
"Untitled" - Matthew Fanuele
Brown University

Tired of purple dinosaurs?  Jeff Beall comes up with an
ingenious way to kill off that Barney nemesis.  Matthew
Faunele's work is a real head turner


"Techno Rebel"
 Joe Tojek
University of Wisconsin

The skate punk lifestyle clashes with authoritative figures
who tell you how you should live your life.  It's almost
enough to make you puke.


M U S I C   V I D E O


"High on Hope"
Microglobe
>From the video compilation: "X-Mix-1: The MFS Trip"

This in an engaging 2-D animation.  Makes extensive use of
color cycling that moves at the same pace as the beats.  The
transitions evolve fluidly throughout the song.  Snowflakes
and flowers are the primary images.


"Cloudwalker"
Biosphere
>From the video compilation: "3-Lux-3: A Journey through
ambience"

Total ambience.  Three humanoid figures move around in a 
circular motion.  Planetoids orbit the galaxy.  Scenes at
dusk.


PLEASE NOTE:  "Cyberia" is broadcast only.  It airs on U
Network, a national network of college TV stations.  No
tapes are available for sale.  A list of U Network affiliate
stations is available via anonymous ftp on
techno.stanford.edu
get /pub/raves/media/television/CyberiaTVstations


Robert Campanell
Producer, "Cyberia"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From jpp@markv.com  Thu Apr 28 17:43:08 1994
To: phred@well.sf.ca.us
Cc: sfraves@techno.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: PRZ article in WSJ
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 17:42:57 PDT
From: jpp@markv.com

If you find that stuff interesting, you might want to be reading
cypherpunks@toad.com.  Mail to cypherpunks-request@toad.com will get
you a pointer to how to subscribe I bet.

j'
--
		   O I am Jay Prime Positive jpp@markv.com
1250 bit fingerprint B06229 = B8 95 E0 AF 9A A2 CD A5  89 C9 F0 FE B4 3A 2C 3F
 524 bit fingerprint 2A915D = 8A 7C B9 F2 D5 46 4D ED  66 23 F1 71 DE FF 51 48
Public keys via `finger jpp@markv.com', or via email to pgp-public-keys@io.com
Your feedback is welcome directly or via my symbol JPP on hex@sea.east.sun.com

Resist the Clipper Chip, write "I oppose Clipper" to Clipper.petition@cpsr.org


From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 30 21:59:58 1994
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From: laura@soda.berkeley.edu (Laura La Gassa)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 21:59:53 -0700
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Subject: Liquid Air 
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If Brycer's voice mail is busy finger laura@soda.berkeley.edu

Laura

From sfraves-owner  Sat Apr 30 23:54:50 1994
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From: Andrew Monko <n9010387@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Radio show
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On Sat, 30 Apr 1994, Bob Ramstad wrote:

> 
> >insult fraternity people who do not fit that description.  Stereotype, or
> >otherwise, I cannot recall ever attending a function with frat. people
> >where there was not a sickening atmosphere of meat-market machoism and
> >elitism. This kind of environment kills any possibility of a
> 
> listen.  i am a brother of a fraternity, and i assure you, dozens of
> cool events go off here in SF where i am in attendance.  please
> re-read what you've said, and realize how incredibly offensive it
> could be to someone who considers himself a "frat person" and is an
> active contributor to the rave scene here.
> 
> Bob


	Gosh, Bob, why don't YOU read, in its entirety, my last post,
instead of, seemingly for further conflict's sake, displaying a portion 
of it out of context and subsequently responding to it with the SAME basic
retort as your first one.  I adequately compensated for any offense you
may have taken to my intial post, and CLARIFIED the orgin of my perceptions.
This was meant to calm the waters, Bob, and I fail to see why any further
negative response on your behalf is warranted (assuming you read and
understood my post from yesterday...).  The orgin of my stereotype comes
from the NW, where you yourself expressed disdain for the UW system.  To
take this much offense to my impetuous use of the word fratboy must
indicate that you indeed are involved in a positive system in SF. If I
didn't realize how offensive my remarks were, I would not have sent my
last post.  If your frat system is of such merit like you suggest, than I
truly empathize with you regarding the negative perceptions you must
encounter concerning frats in general, because as I'm sure you know, MANY
frat systems at MANY colleges do portray a negative image to the public,
and therefore 'fraternity` has hardly become synonymous with 'rave.`  Due to
my experience, you (and others like you) are an exception (I'm glad there
IS one...), and it is to those that I recant from using the frat reference.  

andrew


