From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 01 16:30:24 1998
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To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: TOON TOWN IS POSTPONED!!! 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Dec 97 20:04:56 EST."
             <b466b14f.34aaebba@aol.com> 
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 08:30:19 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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I know it's a bit late to ask this, but is this rescheduled "Toon Town"
party worth going to? I mean, is this the "real" Toon Town that put on
some of the early 90's raves in the Bay Area, or is it just some
promoters grabbing the name from a cartoon? Cartoon-ripoff-name raves
tend to be pretty sucky, in general, but then again, I'd probably call
a rave I promoted somethin' like "A huge ever growing pulsating
sphincter that rules from the center of the ultraworld" or something
like that, which is  one of the myriad reasons why I don't promote
raves. :-)

I just want some assurance that this isn't "Cool World" or some other
kiddie-raver-snuck-out-past-momma, bouncy-castle-havin', gauntlet-of-E-
dealer-runnin', hours-of-preparation-to-get-that-wasted-look-posin', 
jock-boys-sniffin'-for-E-girlies-doggin',
no-vibe-standin'-round-arms-crossin' middle-of-the-dancefloor-sittin',
crashed-mommies-accord-on-the-way-back-tweakin' kinda event.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 01 16:58:33 1998
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References: Your message of "Wed, 31 Dec 97 20:04:56 EST."            
 <b466b14f.34aaebba@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:01:03 -0800
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: TOON TOWN IS POSTPONED!!!
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 8:30 AM -0800 1/1/98, Niels P. Mayer wrote:
>I know it's a bit late to ask this, but is this rescheduled "Toon Town"
>party worth going to? I mean, is this the "real" Toon Town that put on
>some of the early 90's raves in the Bay Area, or is it just some
>promoters grabbing the name from a cartoon? Cartoon-ripoff-name raves
>tend to be pretty sucky, in general, but then again, I'd probably call
>a rave I promoted somethin' like "A huge ever growing pulsating
>sphincter that rules from the center of the ultraworld" or something
>like that, which is  one of the myriad reasons why I don't promote
>raves. :-)
>
>I just want some assurance that this isn't "Cool World" or some other
>kiddie-raver-snuck-out-past-momma, bouncy-castle-havin', gauntlet-of-E-
>dealer-runnin', hours-of-preparation-to-get-that-wasted-look-posin',
>jock-boys-sniffin'-for-E-girlies-doggin',
>no-vibe-standin'-round-arms-crossin' middle-of-the-dancefloor-sittin',
>crashed-mommies-accord-on-the-way-back-tweakin' kinda event.
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Not to rain on anybody's parade but this certainly is NOT the same Toon
Town of yesteryear.  In the first instance the old Toon Town (which , of
course was a ripoff fromthe jump of that Bob Hoskins movie "who Framed
Roger Rabbit") wouldn;t have needed or wanted to team up with anybody.  The
pricipals involved with this event consist (on Toon Town side) of a small
contingent of what was the original Toon Town squad.

Also let's get real, if this is in fact a team up with Martin's production
The Gathering, then you can bet it will be 18 and up.  Toon Town's
(thankfully for me), were 21+ events.  Martin doesn't do those kind of gigs
so you can bet there will be lots of young adults there at a minimum.

So get your baggy pants ready, you wallet chain a swingin', and get ready
to show your chest.  Because it's gonna be a gig fest '98, and the boy with
the sweatiest chest, and the most dangerous circle dancing moves wins.
What does he win, a biscuit betty for true fun & real rave romance.

I would also suspect that the bathign factor may take a dive, so get ready
to smell a brand new kind of funk for the new year.  Yeah they got rid of
smoking in clubs, but they'll never get rid of the raver who barely bathes.
Long live the stinky ones!

Now of course you can throw the dice at a 21+ event today, such as Stompy
held at the notorious VSF.  But be careful there too, you might not be able
to stay long due to circumstances outside of anyones control.  It's a
crapshoot but it may be worth the money to get in.  I would suspect a high
bathing ratio, some very good smelling people, some good looking people,
smoking outside (it's the LAW, now we'll see if VSF security is righteous
about enforcing smoking laws as well as their own brand of justice), and
some good grooves.  So smell good, look good, be good, and it's all good, I
hope.

Well that's my suggestion for '98.  I'm sitting this one out, next year
too, and maybe the year after that.  I'll wait till Abstract Soul has Loren
spinning again if I want some house music.

BTW speaking of Loren, my homeboy got married to his long time love Gina T.
It was a wonderful wedding and a wonderful reception.  Congrats and much
happiness!
NewYorican in da house!   Much love!

Happy New Year,
John




"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 01 17:07:40 1998
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References: Your message of "Wed, 31 Dec 97 20:04:56 EST."            
 <b466b14f.34aaebba@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:09:58 -0800
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: TOON TOWN IS POSTPONED!!!
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 8:30 AM -0800 1/1/98, Niels P. Mayer wrote:
><snip>... I'd probably call
>a rave I promoted somethin' like "A huge ever growing pulsating
>sphincter that rules from the center of the ultraworld" or something
>like that, which is  one of the myriad reasons why I don't promote
>raves. :-)

That party would probably be called:
-Booty Call @ 10k Feet.
or
-My Baby's got Butthole.
-Anal Vortex.
-Crapshoot '98
-Everyone's Got One.
-Uptight Alright

Now I want you to go and print up some big ass 4 color flyers, book the
names that will fill a sizeable space (make sure they're notables like
Keoki), have plenty of porta potty's (cause your party's the shit), get a
sound system (booty bumbin sound), and promote (kiss ass), promote (kiss
more ass) , promote (your teeth aren't brown enough, go and kiss more ass).

I think this party should have a fully hosted bar featuring GHB, Meth,
Special K.  Dealers welcome.

And to squeeze every bit out that you can it should be ALL AGES.  $35 at
the door, no in-outs, and of course, no free water.  The sign above the $$$
water station should read "Hey, what do you want from me?, I gotta pay rent
too!".

Now THAT's a GIG.  Neils, can I get guest list?


Out,
John


"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 01 19:34:16 1998
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 11:39:43 -0800
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Subject: Status Reports
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So I didn't go out last night :)
Did Origin and the treasure Island Party go unmolested?

What happened at CAMP?



						G

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 01 20:09:43 1998
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:09:32 -0800
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From: Michael Standish <standish@sirius.com>
Subject: Free Party at Peoples Park
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Free Party at Peoples Park today 1-1-98

Ulrich, Vertigo, Slim, Bloom, Tune, Veriphine, Wonderboy

1:00 to sundown

Sir Ulrich Knight of the Turntables



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 01 22:42:11 1998
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To: SFRavEs Mailing List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Todays party in Peoples Park has beeen postponed until sat 1-10-98.

Peace and Happy New Year
Ulrich (via deepfogs account)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 01 22:47:40 1998
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 14:48:17 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Subject: NRR astrology for the new year
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There must have been some really great partys last night
since no one has crawled out of bed to tell us about them
yet.

So while waiting for all the wonderful reviews here is
something interesting for those of you that would like to
start the year off with some spiritual thingys.

This site has lots of astrology articles including predictions
for jan and the coming year plus artilcles about
other spiritual things and some good poetry also.

http://pages.prodigy.net/astrology/

in joy and happy new years everyone...its going to be 
an exciting one.

	><{{{">  peace <"}}}><

	     foolish fish

ps ...for those waiting for my newsletter...it should be ready 
in a couple of weeks....hehehe. Sorry for the delay and to everyone
who wrote me about it , im not ignoring you i just havent gotten
to answering the HUGE amount of responses i got.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 01 23:59:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:14:06 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Terri Young <ez053642@sol.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: TOONTOWN ETC
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>Not to rain on anybody's parade but this certainly is NOT the same Toon
>Town of yesteryear.  In the first instance the old Toon Town (which , of
>course was a ripoff fromthe jump of that Bob Hoskins movie "who Framed
>Roger Rabbit") wouldn;t have needed or wanted to team up with anybody.  The
>pricipals involved with this event consist (on Toon Town side) of a small
>contingent of what was the original Toon Town squad.

Well, we tend to agree with John on this one. It smelled kind of fishy from
the start, and just got fishier when it was "postponed".  We're going
anyway, but with low expectations, that is, if it even happens. My
girlfriend went to Toontown in the early 90s and tells me the experience
was mindblasting. I, on the other hand, never got to experience the
extravaganza and probably never will.

So sad, too bad.

What happened that was REALLY great on New Year's??? I'm lusting for
REVIEWS REVIEWS REVIEWS.  Send me good New Year's vibes since I sat at home
and did nothing but watch South Park marathon. Which, actually, was pretty
damn fun for being free.

Happy New Year Everyone!

peace,
T 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 01:36:10 1998
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:35:35 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: regarding toontown's jungle room
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Regardin toontown:
could someone give me the line up for the jungle room?
I would really appreciate it.
Hope you all had a wonderful, safe, fun New Year's.  And I hope you all were
smart.  And I hope that smartness leads to being able to party with all my
friends in this coming year.
-Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 01:36:55 1998
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:36:24 -0800 (PST)
From: mancia marco a <mancima@laney.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
cc: marco@ina.com
Subject: Ricochet Sat. Jan. 3rd
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                               RICOCHET



     Ethan          Alex                  Elf Lord

              Q                Aneurysm



      with a live performance by OPTIC


     speAkeR "23"      Da Mule          Pelican Boy



and maybe more.................



                         January 3, 1998


                            510.665.6524

				$5









orb...............magick...................Media Assessiiiiiinnnozzzzzzzz..................Computer TERRA~Ist..................speakEr............................................23......................out



Marco Mancia
CyberSounds, Inc.

**************************
sound experimentor

tripologist

**************************

marco@ina.com
mancima@earth.laney.edu
Vibepool@aol.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 01:39:04 1998
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From: Karma2001 <Karma2001@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:35:01 EST
To: Karma2001@aol.com, brian@hyperreal.org, dreamer@ziplink.net
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject:  Happy New Year :) <3 (: I must find this person from seattle
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Ok its me again......and I have too big of a head ache to get into any details
about last night....except......I met some one at Cloud Factory last night and
I regret not getting their # or address.....It was one of the people who came
down from Seattle....His name is Steve and he is adorable!!!!!!!!!! He was
wearing big pants with pink fuzzy material on the bottom and he had a blue
shirt on with white gloves in his pocket.....I need to find him....so if any
of you know who I am talking about please tell me how I can get ahold of
him.....and yes Cloud Factory threw and excellent party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     <3
*MushyB!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 01:45:04 1998
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:53:28 -0700
Subject: Resolution Reviewish
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Ok , so I might not agree with all of Dennis's politics but last night
was one damn fine celebration of all life and why it is worth living.  An
all hands ahh and warm fuzzy thanks to all the people that made this
party happen. (I am sure this isn't all of them) Gateway, CCC, Hunab ku, 
Sacred Dance Society, Dionysus Dreams, Konanonia, every single DJ down to
that one guy that spun in the ambient room at about 7am for his first
time (Daniel I think) ,  Stephanie and her  dad doing the smothie bar,
and all those people that cooked all those little treats for us hungry
ravers, and of course let me not forget all the wonderful people that
came out and made last night one of my most favorite parties, notching up
there with harmony 3 year.  5 floors of people ozzing with good spirits
and wonderful vibes and of course 4 floors of some of the most astounding
music that I have experienced so far.  Trance, D&B, old 60's songs,
ambient puddle music, did I mention Goa Trance and of coarse more Goa
Trance, now that is one  addictive substance.

My personal thanks to some others: Marvin for practicing standing with me
tell noon today (We are experts now, do you think people will pay us for
it?) Boddie for those yummy blue berries, two really cool 19 year old
kids with that neat stretchy frog and the amazing yo-yo, Stephanie and
Philip, two kids that definitely have there priorities straight, Daniel
for contemplating the purpose of existence with me, Seofon because he is
mine,  Levin ( he is just an amazing person in general), who ever threw
that cuddle teddy bear at me (it now resides on my bed for the next year)
and everybody that said they loved my painting.

		THANK YOU!..HAPPY NEW YEAR!

			WHAT A GREAT BEGINNING!

Lady Love
	Rebecca Love
		The Purple People Eater
				One very tired girl
					I need sleep, sleep, sleep, z z z
zz..

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 02:14:52 1998
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Happy New Year Everyone...  And Best wishes For 1998




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 02:15:07 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:25:30 EST
To: solr@sacraves.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR)
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In a message dated 97-12-31 21:16:40 EST, solr@sacraves.org writes:

<< my point was, that *growing* and *selling* marijuana really doesn't have to
 have anything to do with the legalization of it for medical use.  The fact
 that an orally ingested  pill will take effect later, and *longer* leads me
 to believe it would be the preferred perscription by doctors.   >>

  If you were in deep deep pain, you had really really bad naseau, don't you
think you would want the quickest relief you could get? Also, marijuana in a
tablet form is probably not as organic as straight of the plant.  Wouldn't you
prefer to heal or ease pain with something that has less chemicals?
   I am going to ask a question: Do any of you know if some pain killers do
not work well with the drugs cancer/AIDS/glaucoma ppatients need to take?
perhaps that is why.  I ask this question because: I don't know the answer.
   The biggest bonus I see for patients who take marijuana as medicine is the
organic quality.  I know that I can not take vicadin.  It makes me sick.  I
would rather smoke a spliff than take a hit of morphine any day to ease my
pain.
-Ms. K1dd 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 03:10:43 1998
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From: invalid opcode <coredump@argyreia.nervosa.sf.ca.us>
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Subject: Review: Treasure Island
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  Where to begin.. where to begin..

  Well, first off, we arrived at about 10pm, spent a small while looking for
  the ticket line, as there were multiple lines. After getting tickets
  ($35 each), we proceeded to wait in line, or what you would think was the
  line, for the bus for the next 2 hours (yes 2 hours!). Besides the fact that
  the high percentage of selfish assholes were cramming into the line and 
  cutting in from all sides (one wonders what the security was doing), we
  shouldn't have been sitting there for 2 hours to get on the bus. It's quite
  obvious Space Children completely oversold this, seeing as how they had a 
  total of 4 buses and 1 ferry for about 5000 people or so (rough estimation).
  After listening to various cool dudes, fly chicks, and other whiners complain
  about the heat in the bus we eventually made it to the island.

  Having made it successfully through the ticket filters (we did buy our
  tickets), our first act on our "countdown to the next millennium" was some
  DJ spinning some jungle outside. Sound wasn't too bad, seeing as how it was
  outside and excessive reverb was non-existant. I passed this on, as I'm not
  too much of a jungle fan. The next room was a small one, mainly filled with
  "hip-hop" looking people. I don't know what made me pass through this room
  quicker, the coolness factor, or the lame tagging art written in dust on the
  windows.

  Next room, the "Fire" room had some serious problems. First off, the sound
  was excrutiatingly loud. It seems as if the sound check (heh, yeah right)
  consisted of someone standing at the far wall of the warehouse and raising
  the gain until it seemed right. Problem with this method is that the sound
  near the "stage" is ear destroying loud. Since I waited for the bus for 2
  hours, it was about 1:00am now, and already one less year towards the next
  millenium - whatever. Greeted by the sounds of Derrick May at 120dB wasn't
  too pleasant of an experience, and I like May. I made my way up towards the
  front through the swirling mass of agro-boys, tweakers, and glitter-girls
  until I could watch May spin for my own observatory reasons - it was pretty
  obvious I wouldn't be doing any dancing. Five minutes after watching Derrick
  spin various hard edge 313, we were introduced to the sight of tweaker-boy
  number one trying to pull the DAT off of one of the monitors, at which point
  May pushed him back with a 10 foot throw and grimace of anger. Give two more
  minutes and this obviously unstable human was trying to grab May's left
  turntable, which caused Derrick to take a swing at him - and turn the mixer
  gain to 0. Derrick took a minute to cool down and went back to the music,
  obviously aggrivated. The room had a very uncomfortable feel to it, dark
  corners, very cheesy lighting affects, passe black lights - it pretty much
  looked like a rush job. The sound was so obviously out of whack, that you
  would take cover when any kind of midrange sound came through the
  sonic-demons, I mean speakers - the distortion was absurd, and towards the
  end of the room the reverb affect had a swooshing sound. The high point of
  this room was hearing Derrick play Strings of Life, of which maybe 20 people
  knew, but sadly it was made unenjoyable by the wailing wall of sound.

  We ventured to the other larger room, which looked very akin to the previous
  room - overly loud and passe. It didn't take too much look for the bus out of
  here after that. We found the bus line and proceeded to wait in that for a
  relatively short time. This short time was extended by the selfish assholes
  again who don't quite understand how mass compression of human bodies into a
  3 ft wide bus door isn't comfortable - this caused us to miss our bus we
  patiently waited for and in turn shuffled onto the ferry.
  
  We were so relieved to step onto the trash-laden asphalt at pier 43 and
  finally get the hell out of there after a long night of unenjoyment and
  displeasure.

  Things I learned:
    a. The percentage of impatient selfish people and egotistical assholes is
	disheartening.
	b. Space Children is evil, and were obviously interested in only the money.
	c. Alternate transportation not controlled by you is not a good idea.

  (Relative) High point:
    Derrick May playing Strings of Life.

  All in all the event completely sucked and appeared to be fueled by drugs,
  money, and just unintelligent dancing to whatever "sounded good at the
  time," or people looking for a party with no insight. I will not be attending
  any Space Children events in the future.

== Chris Layne =============================== Flames to my private email ==
== coredump@nervosa.sf.ca.us ====== http://www.nervosa.sf.ca.us/~coredump ==


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 03:11:21 1998
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:13:29 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Daytime Curfews in Sonoma County
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Dear Rave Friends,

        I just received this disturbing missive...

        Any of you second class (under 18, that is) citizens live in Sonoma
County?  Isn't it great to know they want to be able to implement a law
that could make you a criminal for walking to the grocery store when home
sick from school?
        Anyone know what curfews are in effect elsewhere in the Bay Area?
A few years ago they tried to enforce a law that under-18s couldn't dance
after 2am in San Francisco, but that idea got shut down when ravers and
others showed up to protest at City Hall hearings.  Let's not let them get
away with this bullshit.
        Next they'll be telling us "there's no socially redeeming value to
staying out after 2am" (my favorite quote from the SF City Hall hearings,
from a woman with some neanderthalian neighborhood organization).

May the bass be with us,
                                <<< Starchild >>>

>Subject: Daytime Curfews in Sonoma County
>Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:27:18 -0800
>BestServHost: lists.best.com
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Sender: ba-liberty-errors@lists.best.com
>To: ba-liberty@lists.best.com
>
>Anyone who wants to help the fight against Daytime Curfews should
>contact Cyndie Moi, Chair of Californians Against Daytime Curfews, at
>cynmaui@metro.net. Those calls, letters, and public testimony do make a
>difference
>
>
>The Press Democrat
>
>     Dec. 27, 1997
>
>          Mullins to revive county curfew plan
>
>          By MARY CALLAHAN
>          Staff Writer
>
>          Sonoma County District Attorney Mike Mullins, who yanked a
>proposed daytime curfew from county supervisors' agenda early this
>          month, says his plan isn't dead and he'll ask the board to
>designate new daylight restrictions for youth early next year.
>
>          While acknowledging unexpected opposition to the plan, much of
>it based on questions of constitutionality, Mullins said he wants to
>meet
>          with critics and perhaps try to address their concerns in a
>revised proposal.
>
>          "But I'm going to do something," Mullins said, suggesting he
>may be ready to come back to the board in February. "I intend to put
>this
>          back on the agenda."
>
>          Whether he'll meet with success re mains in question, however,
>as an important ally, County Schools Superintendent Tom Crawford, is
>          expressing doubts about the plan, aimed at keeping students
>off the streets from 8:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. on school days.
>
>          "I've heard more from people on this issue than any issue
>since I've been in office," Crawford said, adding that most opponents
>have aired
>          a deep-seated distrust of authorities, and fear children will
>be harassed by those attempting to enforce the law.
>
>          "As it stands right now, I am in support of children attending
>school," Crawford said. "If a curfew needs to be put in place to see
>that
>          children will be in attendance, then I'm not in total
>opposition, but I would like to hear the debate, and I would like to
>hear from the people
>          who are just adamant about this infringing on the rights of
>young people."
>
>          Mullins' proposed ordinance, part of a larger movement
>sweeping the state in the last few years, includes a new night-time
>curfew for
>          unincorporated parts of the county, as well as a provision
>precluding minors who are under 18 and subject to compulsory education
>from
>          remaining in public, unsupervised, before 1:30 p.m., with
>certain exceptions for emergencies and authorized activities. The law
>also would
>          hold parents responsible for the costs of detaining youths
>caught in violation.
>
>          Seeking support
>
>          Mullins has approached local police chiefs about sponsoring
>similar city laws "and all be on the same page."
>
>          While all of the county's nine cities already have nighttime
>curfews, only Rohnert Park has adopted daytime restrictions. Sonoma
>officials
>          will take up the issue on Jan. 7, while discussion is expected
>as well in Santa Rosa, Petaluma and Healdsburg, officials said.
>
>          Santa Rosa Police Chief Michael Dunbaugh, a leading voice on
>the Sonoma County Chiefs' Association, said he doesn't foresee
>          wholesale acceptance of the daytime curfew, though Rohnert
>Park's "appears to be working very well."
>
>          "It's one of those issues that's going to be (decided)
>community by community," Dunbaugh said. Without stating his own opinion,
>          Dunbaugh said he expected the city's teen council to address
>the proposal sometime soon.
>
>          The goal of the daytime curfews, fashioned after similar laws
>adopted around the state and nation since the Southern California city
>of
>          Monrovia led the way three years ago, is both to keep kids in
>school and reduce opportunities for them to commit or become victims of
>          crime, Mullins said.
>
>          Statistics look good
>
>          In Monrovia, for instance, police recorded a 54 percent
>reduction in the dropout rate during the first two years the daytime
>curfew was
>          enforced, and a 49 percent reduction in daytime crime,
>according to a publication put out by the state Attorney General's
>Office.
>
>          Truancy also is a known risk factor for trouble later in life,
>Mullins said, and may signal family or other problems that could be
>addressed
>          early if a pattern of poor school attendance were uncovered
>through curfew enforcement.
>
>          Local officials have been inundated by calls and letters in
>recent weeks, however, from constituents opposing the daytime curfew for
>a
>          variety of reasons, including fears that home-schooled youths
>could be stigmatized because they have more flexible hours and they
>could
>          be stopped often; concerns about students being harassed by
>police; and beliefs that the law would violate mi nors' rights to
>assembly and
>          free speech rights.
>
>          Mullins countered, "If a 10-year-old is out at the mall at
>noon with no one around, wouldn't you like someone to ask them why
>they're
>          here?"
>
>          But hearing of opposition to the proposal, Mullins pulled it
>from the board's Dec. 9 agenda.
>
>          Objections raised
>
>          The move was prompted primarily because of objections lodged
>with the county by the Virginia-based National Home School Legal
>          Defense Fund, a Christian organization that also has a suit
>pending against Monrovia because of its nationally recognized curfew
>program.
>
>          The documents, County Counsel Jim Botz said, raise two
>fundamental legal questions, one suggesting the local curfew was
>pre-empted by
>          state mandatory schooling laws, and the other alleging the
>curfew would interfere with young sters' constitutional rights to free
>speech and
>          association.
>
>          "We haven't really analyzed it," Botz said. "If the district
>attorney wants to put it back on the agenda, obviously we have to go
>back
>          through their work and scrutinize it very closely, because
>we're talking about civil rights."
>
>          Monrovia Police Chief Joseph Santo ro, whose city was
>commended by President Clinton for its daytime curfew, said allegations
>raised in
>          the legal defense suit against his town are simply unfounded
>even if one questions the same children named as targets of harassment
>by
>          curfew opponents.
>
>          "We've been through depositions with every one of these kids,"
>he said. "None of them have ever said that an officer ever spoke with
>          them harshly, abused them or even scared them."
>
>          Distrust of authority
>
>          Crawford said he doesn't totally understand the concerns of
>curfew oppo nents, "because I think kids ought to be in school."
>
>          "What I've heard more than anything," Crawford said, "is there
>seems to be a distrust, a distrust of our law enforcement, in that they
>seem
>          to believe kids would be harassed, kids that are not truant,
>and that we don't want to pass any more laws that create that kind of
>          environment.
>
>          "Unless some people come out, I believe, in favor of
>supporting Mr. Mullins and his initiative here ... I think that it will
>probably not go into
>          effect," Crawford said.
>
>          "My sense," Supervisor Paul Kelley said, "is that there are
>some serious questions about daytime curfews by different members of the
>          board. I have some serious concerns about it, especially as it
>relates to constitutional freedoms for youth, the potential for
>liability by the
>          county" in the event a civil rights suit were filed.
>
>          "I'm hopeful that this doesn't come back to the Board of
>Supervisors," Kelley said. "I think it's something that's unnecessary in
>Sonoma
>          County. My hope is that we can find other avenues to encourage
>the schools to keep kids in class."
>
>                                                 Copyright 1997, The
>Press Democrat
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 03:17:18 1998
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:19:35 -0800
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Evil thoughts?
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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That's as much fun as the evil thought about planting marijuana seeds
outside the police department and on the property of politicians and law
enforcement types...  ;)

                                <<< Starchild >>>

Foolish fish shared:

>I just had an evil thought. We should all call the police tonight
>and report a "big out of control drug and sex orgy" at so and
>so address...fake ones of coarse, like the local
>safeway or something. We could have then chasing
>so many wild geese that when they got a complaint about an actual
>party they wouldnt be able to respond due to the backlog of fake
>complaints. And make the calls from a phone booth so they
>cant be traced.
>
>Sorry, im just upset about these "last minute cancelations"
>
>        ><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>remember the boston tea party
>
>~~~Follow your dream! Unless it's the one where you're at work in your
>underwear during a fire drill.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 04:24:25 1998
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Hey i went to the Origin shit party and it sucked! I am glad Toon Town
didn't team up with them! I don't like Origin because they charged my
$25 to go to a party with hellza mean people. Someone grabbed my ass.
Some guy almost rapped Victoria. And it was sooo dark i couldn't see
shit. I don't care what people say about Nomad. All my predjudices come
experience!
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Fumbler151 wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-12-31 04:26:52 EST, you write:
> 
> > They called Origin and asked if they
> >  could team up with them but the Origin jerks were gonna charge them
> >  hellza money! .....I refuse to go to Origin because of what
> >happened last year since, the party was busted because a certain person
> >from a certain production company called the po-po's on them and even
> >before then the party really sucked. It was small and crampt, the music
> >was bad, the lighting was bad and there were drunk people in the party.
> >The map point was on Haight and the party was in Oakland!
> 
>      I thought we had dispensed with this kind of crap on the list. i'm going
> to add fuel to the fire right now, because i'm tired of the way people always
> come down on nomad.
>       why must they be referred to as jerks? you have no idea what really went
> down between them and the toon town promoters, so don't go around bad mouthing
> people. find out all of the facts first, then post something that will make
> you sound semi-intelligent.
>     it's rather ironic that your e-mail account is "goodvibe", because your
> shitty attitude about all of tonight's festivities leads me to believe that
> it's better that you keep you ass at home.
> 
> just my $.02,
> dorena
> right front speaker family

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 04:24:50 1998
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From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Leslie Ayres <leslie@netcommunications.net>
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Subject: Re: Opinions please
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  yeap... I think that was "the Advocate"...=)...yummy!



On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Leslie Ayres wrote:

> when i first heard jungle, i thought all the songs sounded the same, and
> then someone said (hi reagan!) ... "wow!!! this is my favorite song!!" and
> i thought she was out of her mind...  then i learned to listen differently,
> and saw the subtleties and learned about the styles, and generally became
> more educated...
> 
> house is easier, because there are usually some sort of lyrics or
> distinctive beat patterns, it's more like a "song" usually ..... but that's
> just one end of the spectrum...
> 
> i think that anyone who thinks that any genre of music all sounds the same
> hasn't really learned to listen to that music yet, and that if they pay
> attention, they'll begin to feel it...
> 
> a dj shouldn't have to trainwreck just to show that these are two separate
> records.... because it's in the mixing, the layering, the gradual
> transitions, where two or more pieces of music blend to create something
> entirely different, that the truest and most beautiful music is made.
> 
> 
> my two cents,
> 
> leslie
> 
> 
> 
> >After spinning at a house party a couple of weeks ago, I was talking to
> >some of the
> >people about trance.  One girl said, "You know, I can never tell the songs
> >apart.
> >It all sounds the same.  What are you [DJs] doing?" I told her that it was
> >a good
> >sign that she couldn't tell when a new record came in...good beat
> >matching, etc.
> > Later I was wondering...is it really a good sign that they can't tell the
> >records
> >apart?  Stylistically, of course.  I mean, shouldn't they be able to tell
> >that a
> >set has gone somewhere?  I was wondering what y'all thought...
> >Post if you think others would be interested.  Otherwise, reply straight
> >to me.
> >
> >The curiously strong peppermint...
> >>:) Amber
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 04:26:00 1998
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Yes this part is definetly worth going to!!
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Niels P. Mayer wrote:
> 
> I know it's a bit late to ask this, but is this rescheduled "Toon Town"
> party worth going to? I mean, is this the "real" Toon Town that put on
> some of the early 90's raves in the Bay Area, or is it just some
> promoters grabbing the name from a cartoon? Cartoon-ripoff-name raves
> tend to be pretty sucky, in general, but then again, I'd probably call
> a rave I promoted somethin' like "A huge ever growing pulsating
> sphincter that rules from the center of the ultraworld" or something
> like that, which is  one of the myriad reasons why I don't promote
> raves. :-)
> 
> I just want some assurance that this isn't "Cool World" or some other
> kiddie-raver-snuck-out-past-momma, bouncy-castle-havin', gauntlet-of-E-
> dealer-runnin', hours-of-preparation-to-get-that-wasted-look-posin',
> jock-boys-sniffin'-for-E-girlies-doggin',
> no-vibe-standin'-round-arms-crossin' middle-of-the-dancefloor-sittin',
> crashed-mommies-accord-on-the-way-back-tweakin' kinda event.
> 
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> ==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
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> =RUx1
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 04:41:40 1998
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>So I didn't go out last night :)
>Did Origin and the treasure Island Party go unmolested?

Origin went off. When we got there at 1:15, I saw cop cars leaving and I
thought that it had either just been closed down or that they had done
their thing and were moving on for the night. Fortunately, it was the
latter. I heard rumors in line that there had been a number of fights;
perhaps that was the reason for the visit.

The "main" room sound level was turned way down starting around 3:30-4am; I
saw some older guy in a uniform (security?) yelling at the dj to do so
until he complied (but later turned it up a bit :). The organizers shut the
party down at 6 am.





[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

   "While personal computers remain extremely relevant, they're no longer
    the overwhelmingly dominant fact of techno-life. Communications is
    becoming the story."
    - The San Jose Mercury News

                                  rob oliver
                          san francisco, california

                               throb@netcom.com

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 06:05:06 1998
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Subject: mY nEw yeAR scHpieL!
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SOOOOOOOOO happy to have been back for New Year's...I hauled my ass out from
tractile land relative territory in SoCal...got home just in time to party!

2nd and Jackson...stuffy main room, which was unfortunate because there was
really good progressive house playing, but you couldn't dance for more than 20
minutes without choking from the smoke and steam from all the bouncy bodies.
They need some ventilation!!!!

$2 water =*\

The third room, with some weak jungle and pretty good trance was the best room
in terms of comfort, because you could breathe and the temperature was
perfect...

Middle room, really housey, groovy vibe...smiley.

Crowd: very designer hello we only wear tommy, nautica, adidas, lots of those
androgynous kids, very few candy kidz, not too many gangsters, very very big
breaker circles.

Overall typical massive, good music...I had a pretty good time, but my friends
and a few other people were the only ones that seemed to care that it was New
Year's...I would think that there would be some sort of special vibe since it
was New Year's...but I was wrong...it felt like any other regular party =]

SoOoOo...what did everyone else do/experience/engage in? Oh ya so how was
Treasure Island or any of the other parties? The postponing of Toon Town must
have been disappointing...I met someone on my flight home from SoCal who was
stopping in SF just for New Year's to go to that party.

Share those stories!

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 06:06:03 1998
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Let me first state that I attended Origin as a last resort, due to Toon
Town's postponement and not being able to obtain tickets to the smaller
events. I did not want to go to Spundae as I resorted to do last New Years
after the cancellation of one of the Oakland events (and losing money on
the pre-sale tickets for it); 1015 Folsom just gets too many
clubbers/drunkards IMHO.

Having low expectations for this event, I can say that they were met. I am
sad to say that the best thing about the party was that it did not get
busted.

It exceeded my expectations for a long line to get in; we only waited 1/2
hour, having arrived at 1:15 am. It exceeded my expectations for visuals
(at least in the "main" room) since either because I haven't out in a while
and I haven't seen the particular animations and laser displays or they
were actually original. Oh and plenty of port-o-potties: no/low waiting!

Three sound systems: a mostly house room, a mostly techno/trance room, and
a mostly chill room (that was playing hip-hop when I made a brief pass
through).

It met my diminished expectations for being crowded and having a lack of
vibe. I think one person smiled at me. Lots of 'tude in the house room; I
saw some guys admiring some fresh tags on the wall there. I'd guess the
average age was 18.5. No offense to young listers, but I have noticed that
at a young age people have less confidence in themselves and coupled with
lots more energy than us old fogies contributed to a constant movement of
groups of people apparently uncertain about where they wanted to be. There
was no hint of a focused vibe until the end, when there was only one sound
system going and a smaller crowd. Many people rudely pushed through on
their way to and from the "front;" I felt this constant stream of people
going in front and behind me all night! Then there was the huge crowd of
young guys standing in front of the dj, which was so deep at one point that
the guys in back looked like they felt that they *should* be up there but
for no apparent reason.

Same with water. They had it for sale: $2/bottle at first and $3 towards
the end when they were running low (supply and demand, they reasoned!).

Janet and I spent 99.9% of our time in the techno/trance room. I must say
there were some pure moments where I could trance-out undisturbed to the
poorly tuned sound system, and I really relished them. We decided to leave
at 6 am to save our energy for this weekend. The organizers decided to call
it a night as well ;), turning off the sound off at that time. Party over!




[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

   "While personal computers remain extremely relevant, they're no longer
    the overwhelmingly dominant fact of techno-life. Communications is
    becoming the story."
    - The San Jose Mercury News

                                  rob oliver
                          san francisco, california

                               throb@netcom.com

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 07:18:35 1998
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***In my experience, it is much easier to DJ to a rave/party crowd than
a top
40/club crowd. The top 40 crowd is always in your face asking for
requests,
etc. and they are completely dependant on your ability to keep their
interest
in the music (you are, after all, competing against their next "pick-up"
ortheir inebriated state).

I can vouch for that completely. Top 40 at a friend's house party, peeps
liquored up big-time, and on New Year's Eve. Woo-hoo! Happened to me
last night. You can hear snips of what Torontoe partiers are like on my
Web site  in Real Audio ... http://www.interlog.com/~hen.

When you go to raves, you know whose playing beforehand and that's the
reasons you go. So it is different because peeps certainly don't go to
bars, let alone house parties, to hear a particular DJ. So, yeah, in the
1 hour set I did [three of us shared DJing], I made real sure I played
music that would keep them bouncing non-stop ... disco, dance, and
Latino. Howz that for pure fromage :) But hey, most of my friends are
non-ravers and would shudder the words "techno" even if I played someone
like Jeno [I believe he's a San Fran resident now]. But I'm a music fan
and love going to parties, so I'll play anything so long as it's good
times for all.

***One girl said, "You know, I can never tell the songs apart.  It all
sounds the same.  What are you [DJs] doing?"

Recalling back, though, when I went to my first few raves, I thought it
was the same DJ for hours because the music sounded the same. I'm older
and wiser now ... heheh ... but I can relate to people who just don't
understand.

da Hen      hen@interlog.com       http://www.interlog.com/~hen
************************************************
Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be
dynamically humourous, fundamentally serious,
ballplayin' delirious, an all night House tripper,
and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper. Yeah, baybee!
*************************************************


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 07:40:14 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: new years resolutions 
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If the messiah will allow I would like to offer up my
own testomonial.

While I don't necessarily want to start any new bad
habbits and I think that I would look funny in nipple
clips- I feel that the year of 97 was the first time
I decided to risk regretting having done something
rather than my usual listen to the messiahs wild
stories and regret not having done them.

It started in the early part of the year when I
decided to abandon my hometown and head out west.  I
left friends, a large chalet style house with killer
rent, a car (in fact, just about all my material
possesions)- all to move out here to public
transportation and residential hotels. I, hoever, do
not regret moving one iota.  One can easily live a
quiet death of luxury.

Later in the year my friends told me they were going
to burning man.  My usual response was- I don't think
i'll be able to get off work, tell me how it was. 
Fortunately the Messiah and my other friends
convinced me to at least ask first, and sure enough I
was able to go.  Despite the mental, physical, and
financial strains that Burning Man led to I can
honestly say that it was the most wonderous time I
have ever had.

Finally, later in the year my friends told me that
they were going to Santacon.  Ever since I had heard
about this event where 200 Santas were going to take
a plane in costume down to LA to party for the
weekend- I badly wanted to go.  Once again, however,
I assumed that I wouldn't be able to take off time to
go- and once again the messiah convinced me to at
least try to get time off.  

Well this time I could not get time off- but I went
anyway.  I was turning 30 that weekend and gosh
darnit the choice between getting screamed at by
customers and partying with my friends in LA in a
Santa suit seemed painfully obvious- even if it meant
my job.  Santacon turned out to be the most fun I
have ever had.

So what I guess I am trying to say- as my brain
operates in fuzzy logic mode due to an Eventful
Newyears eve is that I decided last year that I don't
want to spend the next years of my life trying to do
the right thing only to find that I did not enjoy it
when im 64.

So while I shall try to maintain some balance- my
resolution is to not pass up any oportunities, to
broaden my horizons, to meet new people- hell maybe
even to go to that power exchange fetish ball, and I
think most importantly not to try to write any more
posts when I haven't slept for over 24 hours.

can I get an amen.
PJ





---Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> this year, instead of giving up my bad habits, i
resolve to cultivate
> new ones.  i will try new drugs, and over-indulge
in the ones i
> already know and love, starting tonight.  i will
dance harder, and
> more often, despite the pain and stiffness i know i
will suffer the
> next day.  i will wear clothing that is
inappropriate to my age and
> station in life.  i will stay up all night on
weekdays, and perform
> poorly at work the next day.  i will post things to
sfraves that are
> non-rave related, and not label them as such.  i
will continue to
> smoke.  i wish ill tidings on those select few i
consider my enemies. 
> in fact, i resolve to actively seek to make their
lives miserable if
> at all possible, convenient, and untraceable.  i
will give free reign
> to my hormones, no matter what a slut people think
i am.  i will
> attend an orgy.  i will pay someone to spank me.  i
will blow my
> savings on things i don't really need, like a big,
plush,
> mid-seventies luxury sedan that will pollute the
atmosphere and break
> down regularly.  i will get a tattoo i will regret
later.  i will
> encourage others to behave similarly.  i will start
my own religion.
> 
> love, messiah w
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 09:01:45 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 04:01:11 EST
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In a message dated 98-01-01 23:26:13 EST, goodvibe@geocities.com writes:

<< Some guy almost rapped Victoria. >>

was it a good rhyme?
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 09:02:02 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:59:58 EST
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Subject: Re: Daytime Curfews in Sonoma County
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In a message dated 98-01-01 22:12:08 EST, dreamer@ziplink.net writes:

<< Dear Rave Friends,
 
         I just received this disturbing missive...
 
         Any of you second class (under 18, that is) citizens live in Sonoma
 County?  Isn't it great to know they want to be able to implement a law
 that could make you a criminal for walking to the grocery store when home
 sick from school? >>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Couldn't you tell the piggy you are going to the store, have them call mommy
or daddy to confirm this?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
        << Anyone know what curfews are in effect elsewhere in the Bay Area?
>>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
San Jose has a midnight curfew of midnight, of which I had never had to deal
with. 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 << A few years ago they tried to enforce a law that under-18s couldn't dance
 after 2am in San Francisco, but that idea got shut down when ravers and
 others showed up to protest at City Hall hearings.  Let's not let them get
 away with this bullshit. >>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Under 21's can't dance past 2 am either at most places unless it is at a
"rave" even then, it's fairly illegal.  And some places kick those under 21
out at 2 a.m.  You think that by turning 18 you get more freedom? Hardly.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
        << Next they'll be telling us "there's no socially redeeming value to
 staying out after 2am" (my favorite quote from the SF City Hall hearings,
 from a woman with some neanderthalian neighborhood organization). >>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
At the age of 17, don't you think school is more important than staying out
sitting on a street corner til 3 a.m? And wouldn't you BE somewhere by 3 a.m.
anyway?  When I was 17, Yeah, I was having fun, but my main priority was
getting the hell out of high school.  
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
 << May the bass be with us,
                                 <<< Starchild >>> >>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When I was young, I thought these laws and such were ridiculous too, don't get
me wrong.  I understand what you are saying as well.  I was mad as hell when I
turned 18 that some of my friends couldn't kick it with me downtown past
midnight.  But oh well.  You must understand that the government is trying to
protect/supress the youth.  And keep down crime rates.  Yeah, it's pretty fuct
up, but think, when you are a mother, do you want your 17 yr old son or
daughter out past 2 a.m?  The older I get (oh my wise 20 years) the more I
understand this.  The time will come for evreyone (except those who die young)
to go out and sit on a street all night.  I am waiting patiently my last few
months before I turn 21.  It will be fun, but I am still young, I don't care.
And in the small town I went to high school in, they passed a midnight curfew,
Damn the days I left my ID somewhere, I had to deal with it and go home early.
Food for thought.  It's good to sleep and get up early!! (laughing
hysterically :)
-Ms. Kidd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 09:10:02 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:12:14 -0800
To: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR)
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Dear Brian,

        My response is interspersed with your post below...

>At 04:48 PM 12/31/97 -0800, Starchild wrote:
>>        Say you've been engaging in an illegal activity and a cop stops you
>>to question you about it.  Are you going to tell the truth, knowing your
>>word one way or the other is the only evidence he has?  I don't think so!
>
>Trust me, the last thing you want to do when a cop is asking you a question
>is lie to them.  Lying to a police officer is a felony, having a small
>amount of pot on you is a citation at worst, and unless you're a REALLY
>good liar, it's going to come out, the cop's going to be pissed, and any
>chance you had for on-the-spot clemency is shot.
>
>Just ask the folks who helped throw a recent underground in SF that got
>busted.  The promoter of the party was in the crowd but refused to step
>forward when the cops arrived due to sound complaints.  The cops, pissed
>that no one was coming forward, decided to confiscate the equipment -
>somebody had to have owned at least the equipment, and those who did
>stepped forward, and one was arrested.  A far worse outcome than if the
>promoter had simply stepped forward and handled the cop situation directly.
>
>>Both of you may know you're lying, but it doesn't matter.  If you tell the
>>truth, he may feel obligated to bust you, whereas if you lie, he can't.
>
>I'm sure you're not really as dim as this sentence suggests.

        I think you've misunderstood me somewhat.  I was not suggesting
that lying to the police is the best tactic all or even most of the time.
You seem to have missed or ignored my premise, which was that you are in a
situation where the only evidence is your word.
        Just as the authorities may "know" the Cannabis Buyer's Club is
selling pot to people for what they regard as non-medical use, without
evidence or someone willing to come forward and say "yes, this is
happening", they don't have a case.
        Of course they could just send in the goon squad, but strangely,
this seems to hurt their public image.

>>        Frankly, I don't know whether the CBC is selling pot to people
>>without doctors' prescriptions or not.  I hope they are, and I hope they
>>continue to do so and get away with it.  Better that people have a safe and
>>reliable place to buy marijuana than that they risk being ripped off by
>>shady street dealers, or busted by undercover cops posing as dealers.
>
>Even if it means the state government, or the feds (who can simply declare
>that 215 doesn't apply to federal regulations on narcotics, which has been
>upheld by the Supreme Court before) comes in and shuts down the CBC
>permanently, voids 215, and ends up closing other medical marijuana
>dispensaries around the state?  Is that really a better option than the
>alternative, which is that the dispensaries stay open and truly sell only
>to those with a legit notice from a doctor?  Do you think that /won't/
>happen if the CBC isn't hardened up?
>If you read the newspaper, you'll see that both Governor Wilson and Dan
>Lungren recognize that 215 is a mandate from the public to license medical
>marijuana dispensaries, and that they are prepared to carry that out.  It
>might be with a conservative interpretation of 215, but that's better than
>nothing.

        With all the examples you gave of government lying to us (below),
I'm surprised you're willing to take Pete Wilson's and Dan Lungren's
statements to the media at face value.  Do you really believe they're
committed to the idea of cannabis as a healing plant?  My guess is if they
manage to shut up people like Dennis Peron, they'll start backsliding
pretty quick.
        If the feds try to void California's medical marijuana law, the
result will be even more people waking up to the true nature of our
government.  I think they know such a move would be vastly unpopular and
thereforethey would much rather engage in low-profile activities to
restrict the availability of medical marijuana and keep it under their
control.
        As some of you may know, the federal government has had its own
small-scale marijuana-cultivation program for years.  There are something
like 7 individuals who are actually authorized to receive federally-grown
pot!

>>        And yes, I know what 215 says about needing a doctor's
>>prescription, but to me it's not an issue of what the law says, but what's
>>right and wrong.
>Then why bother with a proposition at all?

        Because unfortunately, people have too much respect for the law,
thus it carries a lot of weight.  Also, bad laws have bad consequences,
like jail time and loss of liberties.

>>        Ending the drug war is right -- it will save many lives every year
>>of people who are killed in drug-related violence due to illegality, many
>>of them young and healthy with their whole lives ahead of them.  We musn't
>>become so preoccupied with the suffering of medical marijuana patients that
>>we lose sight of the larger picture and throw away the chance to save more
>>lives and ease more suffering in the long run.
>
>Since you're a big fan of analogies, let me give a few that I think
>illustrate why Patrick's ire is up:
>
>1) Recent tax cuts which were promoted as being "pro-middle-class" because
>they gave an extra $500 tax deduction for children, yet also contained
>staggering cuts in capital gains and estate taxes.  Overall those with
>greater than $150K in household income fared far better than those with
>less than $150K.

        Brian, I notice you quoted Noam Chomsky at the end of your post.
If you share Chomsky's concerns about the growing consolidation of the
media, then you should be glad for cuts in capital gains and estate taxes.

        As documented in the textbook "Media Ethics" by Conrad Fink, the
destruction of the family newspaper and the wave of media mergers in this
country were largely due to small family-run media companies being unable
to pay the whopping taxes that came due when an owner died, leaving them
little attractive alternative other than selling out to a big conglomerate
able to pay the bills.

>2) "Desert Storm" - ostensibly to "restore democracy and autonomy to
>Kuwait", yet clearly it was for the purpose of protecting American oil
>interests.  Democracy in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia?  Laughable.  Human rights?
> What are those?

        Desert Storm was fought to protect the geopolitical status quo, not
cheap oil.  If Washington only wanted a guarantee of cheap oil, they
would've cut a deal with Saddam:  You keep Kuwait, in fact take Saudi
Arabia while you're at it, we'll back you up -- just keep the oil coming at
low prices.

>3) Recent "fines" levied on big tobacco manufacturers by the feds and
>several states; while they sounded staggering (over $1Billion), they are
>actually a boon for these companies because it exempts them from liability
>from all other class-action lawsuits, *and* it allows them to deduct those
>payments from their business taxes directly.  It's a giant shell game - the
>public has been conned into thinking "yeah, we showed 'em!" yet the
>cigarrette makers were hardly affected.

        Uh... it's more like the public was conned into thinking the
tobacco companies should be liable for others' use of their products.
That's ridiculous -- they shouldn't have to pay a dollar.  They're not the
ones causing lung cancer, any more than junk food manufacturers are causing
you to get fat.  I don't smoke, and I don't particularly enjoy breathing
cigarette smoke, but the more I see smokers and tobacco companies
villified, the more sympathetic I become toward them.  Someone's making a
play to add tobacco as a new category in the War on Drugs, and I'm not
buying it.

>In all three cases it's the government lying to the people.  In this case,
>it's an "outside" group lying to the people.  To me, each is deplorable, no
>matter how transparant it is.

        It's best to be honest, and generally I think one should be, but
when someone is faced with criminal prosecution if they tell the truth, I'm
willing to grant them a little breathing room.

Flower power to the people,   ;)
                                        <<< Starchild >>>

>
>        Brian
>
>
>--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
>"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
>a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 09:10:04 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:09:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: XGrRLsTrX <XGrRLsTrX@aol.com>
cc: SFraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: mY nEw yeAR scHpieL!
In-Reply-To: <16eedca3.34ac8372@aol.com>
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Was this the site of Origin?  We almost ended up there but decided to stay
at home.  Actually we rounded up a few of the best DJ's in Davis and threw
a really great small house party, Davis Gathering II (new years) went off.

razor


On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, XGrRLsTrX wrote:

> SOOOOOOOOO happy to have been back for New Year's...I hauled my ass out from
> tractile land relative territory in SoCal...got home just in time to party!
> 
> 2nd and Jackson...stuffy main room, which was unfortunate because there was
> really good progressive house playing, but you couldn't dance for more than 20
> minutes without choking from the smoke and steam from all the bouncy bodies.
> They need some ventilation!!!!
> 
> $2 water =*\
> 
> The third room, with some weak jungle and pretty good trance was the best room
> in terms of comfort, because you could breathe and the temperature was
> perfect...
> 
> Middle room, really housey, groovy vibe...smiley.
> 
> Crowd: very designer hello we only wear tommy, nautica, adidas, lots of those
> androgynous kids, very few candy kidz, not too many gangsters, very very big
> breaker circles.
> 
> Overall typical massive, good music...I had a pretty good time, but my friends
> and a few other people were the only ones that seemed to care that it was New
> Year's...I would think that there would be some sort of special vibe since it
> was New Year's...but I was wrong...it felt like any other regular party =]
> 
> SoOoOo...what did everyone else do/experience/engage in? Oh ya so how was
> Treasure Island or any of the other parties? The postponing of Toon Town must
> have been disappointing...I met someone on my flight home from SoCal who was
> stopping in SF just for New Year's to go to that party.
> 
> Share those stories!
> 
> -=~*LaUrE@*~=-
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 09:18:29 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:20:45 -0800
To: holmannh@wellsfargo.com
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR)
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Dear Sister Kitty,

        Some thoughts on what you shared...

><<< Starchild >>> wrote:
>        It seems from your several recent messages that your real beef
>with
>Dennis Peron is with what you see as his deceptiveness -- you "don't
>like
>to be lied to," in your words.  But can't you see that any deception
>here
>is a direct result of the criminalization of marijuana use, not of an
>intent on his part to deceive the public?
>=-=-=-=-=-
>I know this wasn't directed to me but..bzzzt! wrong.
>Dennis has been knowingly puffin' smoke in any direction needed to be
>able to continue his sales. IMO he's also doing WAY cool public service
>so many folks don't give a big rip. But don't cloud over the facts, he
>doesn't want too many to know that he has thousands of untaxed
>unaccountable CASH going through his club every day it's open.

        Are you implying that the alleged deception is a result of Dennis'
desire to make an untaxed profit without attracting attention?

        First of all, even if he were driven by the profit motive, I don't
see anything wrong with that.  Businesspeople, including drug sellers,
should be allowed to make a profit on what they sell.

        In Dennis's case however, the idea seems silly on the face of it.
If you're trying to avoid scrutiny of your finances, running for governor
is not the best idea.  Besides, he just doesn't strike me as someone out to
make money.

        As for paying taxes, I hope he's not.  Coercive taxation sucks.  If
you can avoid it, more power to you.  After all, your taxes are paying for
Dan Lungren's salary and financing the War on Drugs.

><major snip of very right on ideas>
>
>        Ending the drug war is right -- it will save many lives every
>year
>of people who are killed in drug-related violence due to illegality,
>many
>of them young and healthy with their whole lives ahead of them.  We
>musn't
>become so preoccupied with the suffering of medical marijuana patients
>that
>we lose sight of the larger picture and throw away the chance to save
>more
>lives and ease more suffering in the long run.
> -=-==-=-
>I agree with most everything you've stated, well put, right on! etc.
>
>I think we all agree that there is some f**ked up laws that effect us
>and the entire drug war needs to be re-aligned with common sense &
>reality...

        Personally I don't want it "re-aligned", just ended.  Maybe that's
what you meant.

>the point is the long-term goals and how many folks are not sure what to
>do about his F**K the laws I'm going to do what I'm doing attitude and
>waiving (mainly) AIDS patients in the face of anyone who disagrees

        Hold on a minute; who's waving AIDS patients around in this debate?
Dennis is standing up for the right of *everyone* to use marijuana, even
at the risk of the authorities trying to put him out of business supplying
pot to the sick.  Aren't YOU the one invoking the moral power of AIDS
patients, by criticising him for "keep(ing) at risk the people who are
actually sick and will die without pot"?

        When the laws are fucked, a "fuck the law" attitude is the attitude
that one should have, imho.

>A lot of good has come out of the work Dennis has done, the concern has
>always been that his sloppy disregard for how to run the
>service/self-policing and providing to those not covered under the law
>will keep at risk the people who are actually sick and will die without
>pot.
>
>Each time the club has been shut down the patients are the ones that
>suffer. You probably won't get many to go on record against him because
>they are the same people that need him every so often. It's like living
>with a corrupt sherriff - you need the relationship to remain even
>though things are kinda screwy.
>
>IMO he dis-credits all the folks who are doing research & education (and
>yes legislation) and have to work twice as hard to be accepted for the
>work they do (and unfortunately just distance themselves from him).

        I suspect these patients find the authorities a lot more
intimidating than they find Dennis.  After all, if he won't sell to them
they can go to one of the other pot clubs (not that I've heard of this
happening), but they can't entirely escape the War on Drugs even if they
leave the country.

        You say other people have to work twice as hard to be accepted
because of Dennis.  Accepted by whom?  If anti-drug people find you
acceptable, it's probably because you aren't threatening their agenda.
Dennis is unacceptable to them because he's doing something right.

        Being associated with someone who's doing the right thing is not a
discredit in my book, even if it may make you unpopular in certain circles.

                                  <<< Starchild >>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 11:35:25 1998
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Subject: WOW...What A NEW YRS....(CFC Review)
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Hello everyone... i just woke up its about 7:45
pm...thursday Jan. 1st....and boy did i have quite an
experience last nite...I got to tha location around
2:30 weds afternoon...and slowly everyone started to
arrive...for set-up...and by 9:30 it looked
beautiful...considerin we were not allowed to start
putting things in the where till 6 pm... this was my
1yr anniversary since i started partying...and i
wanted to make a memory of it but 1st i had a parkin
shift to do...once that was done i went inside the
music was rockin...sirnod vs. forrest green that
funky breaks house seemed to be what everyone
needed...from there i was pleasently surprised by
daniel v. vs. j.bot...not usually the techno i like
but for sum reason it was perfect...from there for me
it kept gettin better...inTimid8r vs. astronaut
skot...that shiiite kicked ass....even down to there
40 minutes of jungle comin out of hard techno n
trance...and in the morning as i started to get
tired...of course the only dj who has witout one
exceprion got me up off my butt in the
morning...drenalin vs cloud....it was beautiful those
r the only words i can use to explain that set...down
to the last song...sista sledges "We are
Family"....it was beautiful...everyone was back up
dancing...it made me appreciate everyone there that i
love from the cfc... this party was what i needed
endin one yr of a new life.. goin into more to
come....all i can say is if everyone out there had
half the time i had u had a blast...thank u cfc...u
know how to do it rite...love jeremy



===

~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~








From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 12:17:25 1998
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sorry i stuttttered.
oh and the guy was some gangster on GHB who kept trying to dance with
her and was all over her. Gloria finallly dug her nails into him and the
guy ran away.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog


Just a K1D wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-01 23:26:13 EST, goodvibe@geocities.com writes:
> 
> << Some guy almost rapped Victoria. >>
> 
> was it a good rhyme?
> Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 12:19:33 1998
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You can count the number of ravers in less than 5 minutes.
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 12:22:02 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: mancia marco a <mancima@laney.edu>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org, marco@ina.com
Subject: Re: Ricochet Sat. Jan. 3rd
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What type of a party is this gonna be?
House? Trance? Jungle? Goa?
& which portion of the bay will it be held in?
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

mancia marco a wrote:
> 
>                                RICOCHET
> 
>      Ethan          Alex                  Elf Lord
> 
>               Q                Aneurysm
> 
>       with a live performance by OPTIC
> 
>      speAkeR "23"      Da Mule          Pelican Boy
> 
> and maybe more.................
> 
>                          January 3, 1998
> 
>                             510.665.6524
> 
>                                 $5
> 
> orb...............magick...................Media Assessiiiiiinnnozzzzzzzz..................Computer TERRA~Ist..................speakEr............................................23......................out
> 
> Marco Mancia
> CyberSounds, Inc.
> 
> **************************
> sound experimentor
> 
> tripologist
> 
> **************************
> 
> marco@ina.com
> mancima@earth.laney.edu
> Vibepool@aol.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 17:13:17 1998
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To: blkadder@value.net
cc: leftjab <leftjab@well.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Dec 97 15:14:47 PST."
             <Pine.BSI.3.95.971231143601.12013A-100000@value.net> 
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 98 09:13:08 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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> Normally, I would agree with you. However, the gravity of the situation,
> and the people involved warrant speaking up. Some very misguided
> folks are backing Dennis Peron as a canidate for governor. The man is not
> fit to serve in any public office, IMO, and in order to explain why I feel
> this, it is necessary to discuss the reasons I feel this way. And
> unfortunately, those reasons are the illegal activities being conducted
> by the CBC led by this man. Sorry, but if someone is going to run for
> public office, then they entertain a whole different level of scrutiny.
> And if you find that bad forum, deal with it.

Oh please....

Seems to me that illegal activities are a prerequisite for political
office. Illegal activities are the only way to move yourself up fast
enough to gain power in a nation that is otherwise stifled by an
overabundance of law. After all, where would the Kennedy's be without
Moonshining during prohibition? Where would Bush be without cocaine
import business he set up while heading the CIA? Where would Wilson be
without kickbacks from the incarceration industry and support from his
racist/elitist constituency?

And on a potentially more positive note, where would George Washington
have been were it not for his illegal activities against the British?

I'll gladly vote for any Clown over Gov. Wilson or Dan Lundgren or
whoever steps up to become chief clown-master of this 3hree ring circus
we call California. Other than my desire to stay out of it's clutches,
i have no faith in our so called "law" nor our so called "courts" and
their so called "justice" -- all it takes is a good lawyer and lots of
money to smokescreen the issues and you can do whatever the fuck you
want, with or without law with or without the US Constitution. ANd most
judges and district attorneys are the ultimate in mediocrity -- because
if they weren't bumbling fools biding their time working a gum'mint
job, they'd be able to perform as real lawyers in a real competitive
marketplace.

Bottom line is that it's a different law depending on whether you're a 
"have" or a "have not", a politician or a citizen, or a citizen w/
enough clout to make/break a politician ... and the line on that law is
entirely related to your political clout and your level of
capitalization. Our democracy has nothing to do with votes or law --
just nouveau feudalism with a good PR/media coverup to make us thing
that things are really a whole lot better than they were back when
kings and noblemen made and enforced the laws.

So please, let's not hear another word about someone being unfit for
office due to "illegal activity." The line between legal and illegal
is that of not being caught, of having the power to ensure that
the enforcers look the other way, and as a last resort, to have the
money to hire a gaggle of lawyers to obfuscate the issues to a point
where nothing can be decided, should you be unlucky enough to get caught.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 17:58:21 1998
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At 4:22 AM -0800 1/2/98, Paul Hayden wrote:

>What type of a party is this gonna be?
>House? Trance? Jungle? Goa?

The party is in the east bay.

Expect techno, trance (not goa), some progressive house, house, ambient
experimental and even some hardcore...

see ya
ethan



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 18:18:37 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:13:43 EST
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Subject: A Wild and Wacky NYE
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	Well, after hearing the dreadful news about Toontown's cancellation, we
decided to go to Origin, hoping that the party would embody that "Bring-in-
the-New-Year-together-with-your-fellow-ravers"-type of atmosphere.  True, it
was a massive, but I suppose we were hoping for the best.  
	WELL.  We not only waited in line for over an hour and a half, but there was
NO separate line for peeps with pre-sales, so all that a presale ticket got
you was $5 off, which really wasn't much consolation as we brought in the New
Year together - in line.  Once inside and after a mad attack of the
claustrophobieee monster :)  we were immersed in an overcrowded sweaty, smoky,
and poorly-ventilated space, very UNlike previous parties I had attended in
the same place.  The vibe was spotty at best, and I really had to search out
those feel-good vibes I was hoping for.  Still trying to lose ourselves in the
spirit of the New Year, we travelled to the different rooms - in my opinion,
the trance room was the BEST, and I really thought the lasers were incredible.
VERY well done, i coulda stayed in there all night if it wasn't so damn HOT
and the speakers weren't blowing out my eardrums.  The house-y room was
...er....housey, and the jungle "lionpit" (as I called it) was reminiscent of
some dark cave with strange random music that made absolutely NO sense in my
head (sorry jungle people, i guess I haven't yet gotten into that style of
music, nothing against it, it's just not for me...) I bolted out of there
faster than Elmo on a tricycle  ;)
	On a *positive* note, however, the night was NOT a complete and total failure
- it was, despite the annoyances and disappointments with the setup and
organization,  an *eXtremely* memoriable NYE, one that will get filed away in
my memory under "random and strange yet unforgettably meaningful rave
eXperiences."  There was NO line for potties (horrayy!!), and the security
was, as always, VERY friendly, very unobstrusive, even a bit plurry (as PLURry
as security could possibly be) - that was a really positive thing, considering
the hoards of people and lack of organization.  
	And last but certainly not least - I had the *BESTEST* time with Geoff, Adam,
and Marsh!!  You guys are incredible!!  Through all the dizzy huggie crowd-
navigational "what the f*ck is this?" scary sweaty-but-younger :) jungly
trancy energizer-bunny jumpity journeys through the paper-mache cave and back,
I had such a super duper unforgettable time!!  I couldn't have asked for a
better New Year's....and hell, we even managed to navigate back to Bizerkeley
without a map or a freeway  =D  Thank you for a NYE I'll never forget!  Happy
1998 to everyone, much happiness and fulfilled dreams to all....
luv n hugs n green donuts,
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 18:51:25 1998
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Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:04:37 -0800
From: Doreen <costad@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Daytime Curfews in Sonoma County
To: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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i bet it was somebody from rohnert park who thought up that law.
god, hearing that only reminds me of how this place makes me want to 
flee.

doreen

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 18:55:17 1998
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Im real curious as to what makes people go to these
big partys that are put on by producers that are known
for having lousy partys. Even after all the talk
here on sfraves about these partys 
lots of people still went. And now they are saying they 
feel ripped off for going. 
And these same producers are having more partys in the near
future and im sure we will see people  going right back
even tho they know the reputation of these partys.

With all the discussion here you cant really say you didnt
know that it was going to be a waste and yet they gladly
go and pay their $35 and then come back monday morning whining
about the terrible time they had. 

Whats the thinking here? 

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 19:27:43 1998
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At 10:55 AM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>With all the discussion here you cant really say you didnt
>know that it was going to be a waste and yet they gladly
>go and pay their $35 and then come back monday morning whining
>about the terrible time they had. 
>
>Whats the thinking here? 
*****
this is on my mind as well this morn...  I wen't to Resolution, and
although superficially, it may seem it wen't over crappy... Though the
lines were long, security was unecessarily rude and incompetant, and the
general attituide of many was shit.

I still had a great time, and won't let anyone convince me otherwise.

Full review to follow today/tomorrow sometime... i think it will be worth
reading, it's a good story.

peace2U498,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 19:44:53 1998
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To: dreamer@ziplink.net
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:44:00 -0800
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dreamer@ziplink.net wrote in response (etc) to me
 Some thoughts on what you shared...
>Dennis has been knowingly puffin' smoke in any direction needed to be
>able to continue his sales. IMO he's also doing WAY cool public service
>so many folks don't give a big rip. But don't cloud over the facts, he
>doesn't want too many to know that he has thousands of untaxed
>unaccountable CASH going through his club every day it's open.
        Are you implying that the alleged deception is a result of
Dennis'
desire to make an untaxed profit without attracting attention?
=--==-=-
no, I would suggest that he's not just a poor martyr who has only circus
tactics available to him though; he chooses to be below the table in
almost all his operations. He doesn't need to and the other clubs prove
this true on a daily basis

        First of all, even if he were driven by the profit motive, I
don't
see anything wrong with that.  Businesspeople, including drug sellers,
should be allowed to make a profit on what they sell.
        In Dennis's case however, the idea seems silly on the face of
it.
If you're trying to avoid scrutiny of your finances, running for
governor
is not the best idea.  Besides, he just doesn't strike me as someone out
to
make money.
        As for paying taxes, I hope he's not.  Coercive taxation sucks.
If
you can avoid it, more power to you.  After all, your taxes are paying
for
Dan Lungren's salary and financing the War on Drugs.
 -==-=-=-
I don't know what exaactly drives him, he's burned (no pun intended)
so many bridges that he's probably sealing his future. The governor race
- well that won't show any finances!?! You'd have to actually write a
dollar figure down somewhere before you can declare taxes! It may be the
media trick of the new year & I hope it works and doesn't backfire.

>I think we all agree that there is some f**ked up laws that effect us
>and the entire drug war needs to be re-aligned with common sense &
>reality...
        Personally I don't want it "re-aligned", just ended.  Maybe
that's
what you meant.
=-=-=-
well, I tend to think that some drup use has less merit (or something)
with a high level of violence involved. I support at least awareness
with most drugs and some (maybe) should pushed into non-exitence.

>the point is the long-term goals and how many folks are not sure what
to
>do about his F**K the laws I'm going to do what I'm doing attitude and
>waiving (mainly) AIDS patients in the face of anyone who disagrees
        Hold on a minute; who's waving AIDS patients around in this
debate?
 -=-=-==-
Dennis has been using AIDS patients (and the survivor guilt of anyone he
can) to keep his club open and keep dealing for years. He has
continually invoked "His lover who has died of AIDS" (let's just gloss
over the fact they were never lovers) whenever he needed some PC karma.
He is not the first to do so he will not be the last. This is not
completely wrong or immoral - as had been implied before - ends can
justify the means - let's be real though he's doing it for reasons
beyond just dealing to the sick - they are simply the best reason -- for
now.

Dennis is standing up for the right of *everyone* to use marijuana, even
at the risk of the authorities trying to put him out of business
supplying
pot to the sick.  Aren't YOU the one invoking the moral power of AIDS
patients, by criticising him for "keep(ing) at risk the people who are
actually sick and will die without pot"?
=-=-=-=-
I'm deeply concerned that his antics (which have been going on for years
and show no sign oof slowing down) are putting ALL the delivery clubs at
risk of being closed for good. {as if one Company was immoral so close
down the Industry}
	It IS HIVAIDS patients i will play the guilt card for because
that's what got people to vote for prop 215 and that what makes it
acceptable. Now if this were a step towards legalization for all - fine.
If not, fine. years ago when prop 215 started we knew the two issues
would get mushed all the time.

        When the laws are fucked, a "fuck the law" attitude is the
attitude
that one should have, imho.
=-=-=-
I agree with you in principle but, again, not at the risk of losing the
entire right to get medicinal pot to those that need it most

>A lot of good has come out of the work Dennis has done, the concern has
>always been that his sloppy disregard for how to run the
>service/self-policing and providing to those not covered under the law
>will keep at risk the people who are actually sick and will die without
>pot.
>Each time the club has been shut down the patients are the ones that
>suffer. You probably won't get many to go on record against him because
>they are the same people that need him every so often. It's like living
>with a corrupt sherriff - you need the relationship to remain even
>though things are kinda screwy.
>IMO he dis-credits all the folks who are doing research & education
(and
>yes legislation) and have to work twice as hard to be accepted for the
>work they do (and unfortunately just distance themselves from him).

        I suspect these patients find the authorities a lot more
intimidating than they find Dennis.  After all, if he won't sell to them
they can go to one of the other pot clubs (not that I've heard of this
happening), but they can't entirely escape the War on Drugs even if they
leave the country.
 -==-=-=-
Dennis will sell to almost anyone; the patients that won't be serviced
by the other clubs (not covered under prop 215 including dealers and the
healthy) go to him. Depending where they go they CAN escape the U.S. war
but I doubt that's the reason to switch countries.

        You say other people have to work twice as hard to be accepted
because of Dennis.  Accepted by whom?
 -==-=-=-
The District Atty; law enforcement - local, county, state, federal
(including Dan Lungren) and, of course, the voters who allowed this in
the first place. Not everyone is against prop 215 or even legalization
but they do want to see respect for the law on some level (at least a
good faith effort).

If anti-drug people find you acceptable, it's probably because you
aren't threatening their agenda. Dennis is unacceptable to them because
he's doing something right.
 -==-=-=-
he's unacceptable in certain ways because of his careless disregard for
the other service groups, the patients long-term needs and the laws of
the land

        Being associated with someone who's doing the right thing is not
a
discredit in my book, even if it may make you unpopular in certain
circles.
=-=-=-=-
I have no problem doing what's right even if it's not popular, he's had
loads of people give him advice how to play nice with other's but he
chooses not too; he choose to be Dennis vs. the world and i won't be
surprized to see him in jail _> how soon and for which charge I don't
know; when it happens I hope the rest of the clubs don't suffer because
of it and I hope the patients that rely in his club aren't denied
service either.

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 20:05:45 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, solr@sacraves.org
Subject: Re: Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:06:00 -0700
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From: SolR
>Smoked, it takes effect much quicker than taken orally, as in a tablet
or
>cookies/brownies/pasta, etc...  Marijana had been used often until the
approx
>1890's, and still used until the 1930's.
>Marijuana started becoming illegal in the advent of MORPHINE!!!  Some
food
for thought.
*****
my point was, that *growing* and *selling* marijuana really doesn't have
to
have anything to do with the legalization of it for medical use.
 -==-=--=
well in America they do (I'm guessing you do live in USA).
When looking at a delivery service you have supply & demand and growing
is something you have to support even if you don't do it yourself.
Several of the clubs are doing that to bring down the prices although
one (oh I think you can guess by now which one) seemingly never really
brings it's prices down. Others have been able to half there ticket
price much to the delight of their patinets
	and selling is what it is until you get a judge to agree that
handing over a set ammount of goods for a set ammount of money (or
compensation) is something else

 The fact that an orally ingested  pill will take effect later, and
*longer* leads me
to believe it would be the preferred perscription by doctors.
=-=-=-=-
it's been posted already but Marinol is no substitute and even if the
side effects weren't so unfavorable the cost is prohibitive (imagine
paying $25 to get high for an hour or so - you could simply budget
another $75 a day so you wouldn't be so neaseated you could eat & not
waste away! yippee sign me up)

Not, find a drug dealer, buy some sticky greens.. and smoke up at least
3
times a day for meals, eat an apple if you get the munchies.... oh, and
don't get any of the funky mexican browns, it's stony, but that's not
what
i'm perscribing.
 -=-==-
that's why we DO want the delivery services

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 20:43:16 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Dennis Peron/Pot
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Hi all!  ]=}

 I hope everyone had a great NYE! I know I did!!! The Trance party at 
CBC was fantastic!!!!!!!!!  :)

 Just some observations; CBC very closely monitors their doors. 
Apparently only those with a CBC (or other Club) ID can get in unless it 
is registration time and those folks can go in with their doctors 
perscription and get a club card. It also seems that the store at CBC is 
also selling pot sprouts (they're soooo cute!) to card members so that 
they *are NOT dependent* on the CBC to grow pot! This is an important 
issue! The CBC in SF is giving sick people and their care takers the 
oppertunity to grow their own. So much for the idea Dennis is running a 
"drug cartel".

 I must say that it was interesting working with the CBC folks. *Very* 
mellow people-- a nice change of pace from the caffine induced folks 
(which I am at times).

hugz,

Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 20:50:44 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
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   Well, my friend and I didn't show up until 12:05 am, we were stuck at 
an Exxon Station :( but we were so excited to be going to this party.  
Walking up to the door, there was a very nice lady explainning the rules 
of this location...no smoking inside and no climbing, okay sure...no 
prob and we were in...  There was hardly any people (compared to any 
other party)  It was very nice, you could run and not be running into 
anyone except for Seamus and Jeremy who I managed to bump into every ten 
minutes :)
   The people were so friendly, especially our new friend Jimmy who gave 
me a hug that actually hurt, I'm okay though :P
   The music was unbelievable,  The highlight of the night was Sabin and 
Scott's set, nice loud, butt movin', memory lovin' trance.  It has been 
such a long time since I've heard anything good at a party (trance)  
Every beautiful song that I have ever heard and wanted someone to play 
at a party was in their set, with the exception of an Ave Maria remix 
that I onvce heard.  Olive's "You're Not Alone" got everyone hootin and 
hollerin, jumping, smiling, and of course I was singing :O  "Callin yer 
name duh duhdu callin yer name can't yuh hera me calln callin callin  
callin etc etc, the other awsome song.  inTimid8r kicked ass too...This 
party was by far the best 'musically'-to my tastes and preferences-that 
I've been to...mad props to all the talent and to Cloud Factory crew for 
putting on a very nice  show...oh and did anyone catch Chris playin 
"tainted Love"  I was looovin it!!!!  Nice to see Terry ;) and many of 
the "City" kids or Viberations's crew
 Peace all and Happy New Year!!!

Danny


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 21:04:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:59:27 EST
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                                         Diverse City Prod. Present:
 ========================================================================
                                                      SUE-AH
                                         (the search for ones self)

                                   SATURDAY, JANUARY 3RD, 1998.

                                       DJs for this event will be:

                                                   DJ ODDESSEY
                                              *TORONTO,CANADA

                                                      JORDAN
                                                      *FRESNO

                                                  JON WILLIAMS
                                                          *SF

                                                        ETHAN
                                              *FRIENDS AND FAMILY

                                                          NOEL
                                              *SF/PHUNCKATECK
 =======================================================================

                                 COME JOIN US JAN 3RD @ SUE-AH 
                                        ALL AGES,ALL NIGHT, $10       

                                       INFO LINE 415.267.5939

              A GOOD MIXTURE OF MUSIC & VIBES...EXCELLENT WAY TO KICK OFF THE
NEW YEAR.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 21:17:27 1998
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Hey solr(and others),
  
   You are arguing with a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence. The San 
Francisco order participates heavily in the eradication of pain for 
AIDS(and others) sufferers. Sister Kitty raised the first 1000$ for 
Prop. 215. Rumor has it that MANY Sisters +MAY+ help deliver to the home 
bound. And we are talking HOMEBOUND, with tubes in differant orifices, 
diapers on, skin discoloring, and Bald heads. ##Living in Pain##

  When you think of Medical Marijuana don't believe the right wing HYPE.
Don't think of the short comings of a program run by hippies, ravers, 
potheads and anarchists, because you WILL find many. Think of someone at 
home walled off from the outside world by pain. Havent you ever been in 
pain? Can we excuse a couple of shortcomings when you view the BIG 
PICTURE?
> that's why we DO want the delivery services
> 
> sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 21:43:30 1998
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From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR)
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At 01:17 PM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey solr(and others),
>  
>   You are arguing with a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence. The San 
>Francisco order participates heavily in the eradication of pain for 
*****
i'm not arguing with *anyone*... I can understand the points being made
here... I just don't quite understand how they are going to regulate it...
and am provoking an answer to my question... 

I have recieved additonal information.. and haven't disagreed with anything
that has been said.  I just think it would be easier to regulate in pill
form.. and see the growing, selling, and delivery as presenting the problem...

peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 21:54:27 1998
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Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon wrote:

> After spinning at a house party a couple of weeks ago, I was talking
> to some of the
> people about trance.  One girl said, "You know, I can never tell the
> songs apart.
> It all sounds the same.  What are you [DJs] doing?"

I've irked more than one dj by saying  "all you need to know is how to
count to four." I'm an imp - can't help it....  I also know that this
huge generalization isn't so far from the mark. It's unlikely anyone
would use 7/8 in a set - perhaps that's where the beat matching comes
in?

HOWEVER, when you talk about trance, you aren't really talking about
songs anymore, are you? Particularly if you're talking about the trance
that I love, Goa.

"Goa trance is best described as a psychedelic dance music. In Goa,
India the main dance drug is LSD. Needless to say, the music and its
composers take full advantage of this, constructing each song with a
complex weaving of synth, 303 and analog noises into a powerful,
kaleidescopic  apestry of sound.  Then add to this strange samples from
films and other sources, and whooshes and bleeps that further stimulate
the psychoactive mind. The beat is a steady 4/4 kick but is often hidden
deep within the twirling array of analog sounds. Much of the melody
comes with a constant barrage of evolving 16th or 32nd note sound
streams." [http://services.worldnet.net/~psyexp/]

I've heard Goa Gill do up to ten hours w/o a break [thanks to dat].  I
can also attest to the fact that, although trance is a psychadelic
genera, it's not necessary to be under any influence in order to achieve
a trance state.  All you need is an open mind, and the willingness to
*feel* the music.

http://www.saturn5.com/~tsheets/music.html - Troy's tretise on trance.
Definitely worth checking out....

and for Brian B, here's the yahoo! info on it:
http://www.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Music/Genres/Electronica/Styles/Trance/
- for the music
http://www.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/India/States_and_Union_Territories/Goa/

> I told her that it was a good sign that she couldn't tell when a new
> record came in...good beat matching, etc.  Later I was wondering...is
> it really a good sign that they can't tell the records apart?
> Stylistically, of course.  I mean, shouldn't they be able to tell that
> a set has gone somewhere?  I was wondering what y'all thought... Post
> if you think others would be interested.  Otherwise, reply straight to
> me.

It seems to me that the set doesn't go somewhere, *you* do.  Ethan
Miller, btw, is unbelieveably adept at creating and maintaining
experience in his work.  He's in Fnf, and he just played the CF party on
New Year's, so we will probably be seeing a lot more of him [yippie!]

I'm not a promoter, and I don't calim to know everything.  I'm still
learning how to build trance, and I'm finding myself drawn more and more
to the likes of Rob Rail, probably because of my background in classical
piano....

Kate


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 22:10:40 1998
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Subject: SPACECHILDREN DOES IT AGAIN
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Well, it looks as though SPACECHILDREN has done it to the scene again. 
There New Years party was so far below what they had advertised it to 
be that it was painful. After listening to there voicemail message to get 
directions, ity was pretty obvious what was going on. They had asked 
for a permit from the police for a small amount of people, but were 
planning to have as many as they could fit. I think that it was pretyy funny 
that the police lkimited the bus and boat trips to coincide with the 
number of guests the party was permitted for.

But, in the end, the party sucked! Friends of mine with pre-sale 
tickets didn't even get in, after waiting nearly 3 hours in line. Those that 
did get in said that it was the worst party they'd ever gone to.

IT IS TIME FOR THIS SCENE TO STOP SUPPORTING PROMOTERS LIKE 
SPACECHILDREN. THEY ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY< AND ARE WILLING TO TAAKE IT FROM YOU 
HOWEVER THEY CAN>>FALSE ADVERTISING, FALSE PROMOTION, KNOWINGLY PRINTING 
DJ'S WHO WON'T BE AT THEIR PARTY. FUCK THEM, AND DON'[T GO TO THEIR 
PARTIES.

Sorry for all of the negative stuff, but I'm tired of my friends being 
screwed by these people.

later,
pokey



Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 22:10:55 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:09:33 -0800
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At 1:52 PM -0800 1/2/98, Katie Zitterbart wrote:

>It seems to me that the set doesn't go somewhere, *you* do.  Ethan
>Miller, btw, is unbelieveably adept at creating and maintaining
>experience in his work.  He's in Fnf, and he just played the CF party on
>New Year's, so we will probably be seeing a lot more of him [yippie!]

Thanks for the props =) though I hope you're not confusing me with someone
else, as I did not have the honor of playing the CF new years eve party. I
did have the honor of playing last, from 6:00 - 8:20 am, on the gateway
floor at the CBC party... are you sure which party you were at ;)

By the way of BSPs...interested parties can hear me this saturday either at
Sue-Ah early (10:00 pm), or in the east bay at Ricochet around 1:30 am...

take it easy
ethan



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 22:55:05 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:54:56 -0800 (PST)
From: mancia marco a <mancima@laney.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Trance & Jungle Factory once again
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Having another party folks,


      		   January 17, 1998


dJ's to be annoucned, $10, STRICTLY!!!!!!!!!! 200 PRE-SALE TICKETS ONLY at
the Trance & Jungle Factory.............

stay tuned..........




((((((((((((((((TranceFactory heads)))))))))))))))))))))









orb...............magick...................Media Assessiiiiiinnnozzzzzzzz..................Computer TERRA~Ist..................speakEr............................................23......................out



Marco Mancia
orbIenT f6, Enc.

**************************
sound experimentor

tripologist

**************************

marco@ina.com
mancima@earth.laney.edu
Vibepool@aol.com
Marco 23@sfbayguardian.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 02 22:56:49 1998
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Ethan Miller wrote:

> At 1:52 PM -0800 1/2/98, Katie Zitterbart wrote:
>
> >It seems to me that the set doesn't go somewhere, *you* do.  Ethan
> >Miller, btw, is unbelieveably adept at creating and maintaining
> >experience in his work.  He's in Fnf, and he just played the CF party
> on
> >New Year's, so we will probably be seeing a lot more of him [yippie!]
>
> Thanks for the props =) though I hope you're not confusing me with
> someone
> else, as I did not have the honor of playing the CF new years eve
> party. I
> did have the honor of playing last, from 6:00 - 8:20 am, on the
> gateway
> floor at the CBC party... are you sure which party you were at ;)

I was at a private party with one other person on new year's....
Didn't make it to CBC or justin's like i hoped, bcause  - well - you
know why ;)

I thought you were at CF because goolie and forrest both said you're
gonna be playin' with them, and some FnF peeps in the city said
likewise.

last time i heard you spin was at the organic birthday bash in November
- f*ck - can't make it to either party on saturday, but you're slated
for somethin' at the end of the month, right?


> By the way of BSPs...interested parties can hear me this saturday
> either at
> Sue-Ah early (10:00 pm), or in the east bay at Ricochet around 1:30
> am...
>
> take it easy
> ethan




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:01:34 1998
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pokeyp@usa.net wrote:
> 
> Well, it looks as though SPACECHILDREN has done it to the scene again.
> There New Years party was so far below what they had advertised it to
> be that it was painful. 


What do you mean? Are you saying that all the people
on sfraves that warned everyone about space children 
were telling the truth? How strange!

Well they have another party in a couple of weeks...so
get your tickets now. It will be the BEST rave ever.
Dont miss it.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:33:21 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:58:16 -0700
Subject: Denver raving?
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Does anybody know about anything going on out in Denver, or where I could
find out?  I have to go back to the frozen tundra land for two weeks and
will definitely need some escape time or a techno fix.


RLove

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:37:37 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:37:23 -0800 (PST)
From: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>
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To: pokeyp@usa.net
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Subject: Re: SPACECHILDREN DOES IT AGAIN
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Is this criticism also applicable to the other promoters, Funky
Techno Tribe and Bagok Tribe?

David

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 pokeyp@usa.net wrote:

> Well, it looks as though SPACECHILDREN has done it to the scene again. 
> There New Years party was so far below what they had advertised it to 
> be that it was painful. After listening to there voicemail message to get 
> directions, ity was pretty obvious what was going on. They had asked 
> for a permit from the police for a small amount of people, but were 
> planning to have as many as they could fit. I think that it was pretyy funny 
> that the police lkimited the bus and boat trips to coincide with the 
> number of guests the party was permitted for.
> 
> But, in the end, the party sucked! Friends of mine with pre-sale 
> tickets didn't even get in, after waiting nearly 3 hours in line. Those that 
> did get in said that it was the worst party they'd ever gone to.
> 
> IT IS TIME FOR THIS SCENE TO STOP SUPPORTING PROMOTERS LIKE 
> SPACECHILDREN. THEY ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY< AND ARE WILLING TO TAAKE IT FROM YOU 
> HOWEVER THEY CAN>>FALSE ADVERTISING, FALSE PROMOTION, KNOWINGLY PRINTING 
> DJ'S WHO WON'T BE AT THEIR PARTY. FUCK THEM, AND DON'[T GO TO THEIR 
> PARTIES.
> 
> Sorry for all of the negative stuff, but I'm tired of my friends being 
> screwed by these people.
> 
> later,
> pokey
> 
> 
> 
> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:40:41 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:40:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: Ravermail <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: SPACECHILDREN DOES IT AGAIN
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Yeah, I'm glad I didn't go.  Just because they got a great location, a
wonderful line up, and charge $15 more than they usually do doesn't mean
Space Children got a clue somewhere.

Razor

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> pokeyp@usa.net wrote:
> > 
> > Well, it looks as though SPACECHILDREN has done it to the scene again.
> > There New Years party was so far below what they had advertised it to
> > be that it was painful. 
> 
> 
> What do you mean? Are you saying that all the people
> on sfraves that warned everyone about space children 
> were telling the truth? How strange!
> 
> Well they have another party in a couple of weeks...so
> get your tickets now. It will be the BEST rave ever.
> Dont miss it.
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:44:15 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:44:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: Ravermail <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: SPACECHILDREN DOES IT AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980102163346.7595A-100000@shell>
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Actually Funky Techno Tribe raves have been pretty good as well as Bagok
Tribe, although under a different name Bagok was know for screwing people
over.  They appearantly got a clue somewhere.  But I would still rate
Oakland's legal raves as pretty crappy in general.  

Razor

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, David Minuk wrote:

> Is this criticism also applicable to the other promoters, Funky
> Techno Tribe and Bagok Tribe?
> 
> David
> 
> On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 pokeyp@usa.net wrote:
> 
> > Well, it looks as though SPACECHILDREN has done it to the scene again. 
> > There New Years party was so far below what they had advertised it to 
> > be that it was painful. After listening to there voicemail message to get 
> > directions, ity was pretty obvious what was going on. They had asked 
> > for a permit from the police for a small amount of people, but were 
> > planning to have as many as they could fit. I think that it was pretyy funny 
> > that the police lkimited the bus and boat trips to coincide with the 
> > number of guests the party was permitted for.
> > 
> > But, in the end, the party sucked! Friends of mine with pre-sale 
> > tickets didn't even get in, after waiting nearly 3 hours in line. Those that 
> > did get in said that it was the worst party they'd ever gone to.
> > 
> > IT IS TIME FOR THIS SCENE TO STOP SUPPORTING PROMOTERS LIKE 
> > SPACECHILDREN. THEY ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY< AND ARE WILLING TO TAAKE IT FROM YOU 
> > HOWEVER THEY CAN>>FALSE ADVERTISING, FALSE PROMOTION, KNOWINGLY PRINTING 
> > DJ'S WHO WON'T BE AT THEIR PARTY. FUCK THEM, AND DON'[T GO TO THEIR 
> > PARTIES.
> > 
> > Sorry for all of the negative stuff, but I'm tired of my friends being 
> > screwed by these people.
> > 
> > later,
> > pokey
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
> > 
> > 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:45:34 1998
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To: ldylove@juno.com (Rebecca L Cardennis), sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: "Wayne D. Correia" <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: Denver raving?
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At 2:58 PM -0800 1/2/98, Rebecca L Cardennis wrote:
>Does anybody know about anything going on out in Denver, or where I could
>find out?  I have to go back to the frozen tundra land for two weeks and
>will definitely need some escape time or a techno fix.
>
>
>RLove

Check out Mountain Raves (http://www.hyperreal.org/raves/mtn/) on Hyperreal.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:46:08 1998
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To: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>, owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Michael Standish <standish@sirius.com>
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At 3:59 PM -0500 1/2/98, PHUNKN3 wrote:
>                                                      SUE-AH
>                                         (the search for ones self)
>
>                                   SATURDAY, JANUARY 3RD, 1998.
>                                        ALL AGES,ALL NIGHT, $10

Sueah is gonna be 18+.

Sir Ulrich Knight of the Turntables



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:48:30 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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David Minuk wrote:
> 
> Is this criticism also applicable to the other promoters, Funky
> Techno Tribe and Bagok Tribe?
> 
> David


Well let me show you something from an earlier post to sfraves.
The other promoters were very aware of space childrens behavior
so i would say they deserve equal credit for the party

here is what moshe wrote:
 seeing as how i am helping to put
this party on (with my posse,nexus)i suppose i had no choice. First of all
the new years party is being put on by ,bagok tribe,funky tekno tribe,space
children,and NEXUS(bsp)and it will be out of control(in a good way)tthe
talent and the location will make this a party to truly remember. . THirdly 
i know scott
and coz. I know they love the music and the scene and i know that they have
lost ALOT of money at a few odf their parties but they continue to throw
them big or small. THis leads me to belive that they are not in it strictly
for the money.  i dont know if there is anything wrong with promoters who
thorw parties for money as long as they take care of busniess(i know that
one of the points made was that space children dosent but still) Promoters
dont have to be rave kids, they are  promoters and fed up with the scene 
for
the most part. so do u guys think that throwing a party for money is
wrong... i dont think i do (but i will always love the music and all
promoters should love it too.)      NEW YEARS ON TREASURE ISLAND  WILL
FUCKIN ROCK!!!!!!!(OH YEA IM PLAYING THERE)......MOSHE
PS.SCINCE THERE ARE ALL THESE OTHER CREWS THROWING THIS PZRTY ITS NOT JUST
A SPACE CHILDREN PARTY AND THE PROMOTIONAL SKILLS OF ALL THESE GUYS WILL BE
IN EFFECT 

Note...the above has been edited for brevity


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:50:38 1998
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To: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: "Wayne D. Correia" <wayne@club.net>
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At 4:44 PM -0800 1/2/98, Michael H Guddal wrote:
>Actually Funky Techno Tribe raves have been pretty good as well as Bagok
>Tribe, although under a different name Bagok was know for screwing people
>over.  They appearantly got a clue somewhere.  But I would still rate
>Oakland's legal raves as pretty crappy in general.

What was the other name that Bagok Tribe was doing parties under?



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 00:59:47 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
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Subject: ATTN: Davis Ravers
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Hey kids.

Could one of you Davis Ravers give me the info on Jeyson and Jericho's 
weekly at Mansion Pub (eg. what night, cover charge, info line #)?  
Thanks a million.  If there are flyers, I would love to get one at some 
point.

Thanks a lot!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 01:11:45 1998
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Hello hello every one. My name is Craig and I am going to be coming to SF
in the first week of march. I am looking for some nice weeklies to attend.
I am into deep funky house and rare groove but anything nice and original
will do. If any one has any info, please send me some. I would really
appreciate it.
Peace love and pancakes
Craig



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 01:51:44 1998
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SOLR>I still had a great time, and won't let anyone convince me otherwise.

<lurk_off>

Working on convincing him otherwise.

He sure posts a lot when he is supposed to be working......

POT/ One of the problems I see with distribution of THC in a pill form is
the fact that the huge medical companies, Upjohn, Baxter Travenol, etc,
can't get a solid, and profitable patent on their specific synthetic
version, or extraction process, since a natural and easily grown
alternative exhists.  Ergo, there is no 20 years of patent profit to reap,
no economical incentive, no political push.

Unless they come up with some very aggresive and unique synthetic version
of THC.  Which in my book would be bad, I don't trust companies that make
life or death decisions based on profit margin and stock incentives.

Then again I could be wrong.

Ian


</lurk_off>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 02:08:46 1998
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Subject: RE: Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR)
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 Think of someone at
home walled off from the outside world by pain. Havent you ever been in
pain? Can we excuse a couple of shortcomings when you view the BIG
PICTURE?
> that's why we DO want the delivery services
>
> sister kitty
 -=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-

OK, well thank you but I don't see it as arguing. Sounds Goods point (I
think) is that there are different kinds of delivery services and I'm
familiar with only about a dozen so far.

Only one of them is risking all the rest - it is that same one where a
bunch of people defect from to start there own homebound delivery
service for whom going to a nightclub was not an option and moving to
5th & Market only made it worse.

Now I comend Dennis for making a comfy space and all and opening the
doors to everyone. But it wasn't all good -  if you had a magic pass
(not real hard to get a membership card) you got into the club. That
sounds great but it meant that some seedy types (no pun intended) were
there amongst folks who really shouldn't be out of bed.

There are complex issues and at the end of the day I'm more concerned
that those who need the medicine gets it and I'm willing to bet y'all
agree.

I won't go into how this has affected me personally but I'll tell you
that there are wonderful people working at most of these clubs that are
ready to go to jail and cringe each time Dennis et al are in the news
again what will happen this time, call the lawyers...again. Heck, maybe
it's good to force them into covering there asses twice over but for a
drug that s'pose to decrease stress he sure is causing a lot to.

wish I coiuld wave a wand and make it all better,

sister kitty

 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 02:53:45 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, solr@sacraves.org
Subject: growing, selling, and delivery
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 SolR wrote:
 how they are going to regulate it....
<sniper>
I have recieved additonal information.. and haven't disagreed with
anything
that has been said.  I just think it would be easier to regulate in pill
form.. and see the growing, selling, and delivery as presenting the
problem...
 -==-=-=-=-=-
so...are you saying let's pretend there was a tablet form rather than
smoking it/baking in brownie that could be more easily regulated?
	(whew I hope so cause otherwise I'm not sure what you mean)
IF we had such easy capability then it would be like regulating eggs or
tomatoes with inspectors at approved locations (like certified organic -
soil testing, inspection for chemicals, etc) and with certified grade A,
AA+, etc. and would, of course, drive the price right up for cost of
regulating and then your packaging and yer...ah...handling fees.

OK, selling would also get tricky but plenty would be willing to set up
shop or paying extra license fee and put bottles of the stuff "SOUNDS
HIGH - but feels great!" along side lottery tickets and shot bottles of
scotch.

Delivery?
if it were by prescription it goes through the pharmacies with some
wacky name and (again) the price would probably go up again
for...handling.

If not then I guess you'd find out that as THE cash crop (no potatoes
this) you'd probably see a fair amount of scandal going on between
farmers & producers and the public as well as some of the happiest
migrant workers ever. (In an ironic twist prisoners would be forced to
cultivate - they'd also be the experts).

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 03:05:49 1998
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Subject: NYE review (long, even for me)
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Well,

I had a chance to go to two parties this year, thanks to some weird
planning and a couple last minute things coming together.

On the night of the 30th, I got a call from the Origin people, and they
asked me if I'd mind spinning first slot at their NYE event.. well... I'd
already bought CF NYE tickets for myself and a few friends, but I figured
there might be a way to do both so I agreed (this is before I realized
that I wouldn't have a chance to practice mixing a few of my new
records... my decks were already on their way to Monterey). 

Origin:  Came by about an hour before the party was scheduled to start,
just kinda walking around and checking out the props and planning.  The
lights in the middle room were sweet, right up my alley as far as
intelligent lighting goes.  The big main room was setup for 2 DJs and a
video guy in the center, but everything was on this small screen at the
front, and probably wasn't too exciting from the back of the room unless
you had 20/20 vision and were 6+ feet tall.  They also had a fat eye
frying laser with some really clean programming.  Not too many cute props,
or little things all over the place, it was just a plain old warehouse
_rave_...  something I personally have a soft spot in my heart for
(warehouse parties rock, remember the chrysalis at the warehouse off
3rd?). With these two rooms in mind, I got all stoked about what might be
going on in the small techno/trance/local DJs room where I was
scheduled...

I walk in... two small green pinspots on the decks, and two small white
pinspots aimed at the ceiling, black plastic on the walls, and a cargo
net hanging over the DJ area... couldn't see diddley... just the way I
like it   :)   totally neglected, just blackness and a sound system.

They start letting people in, and I'm just kinda checking out the vibe
when it dawns on me, that if the other DJs are playing, I should go find
out what's up...

So I drop a couple records for an empty room, and about half an hour into
my set, it starts going off a little, a few people dancing, a couple
screams here and there when a mix hooked up nicely...I think I had a
pretty good night, and then Greg Sandler comes up and starts to kick some
ass.  I always learn something new when I see this guy spin... his sense
of when songs should switch over, and his idea of what songs should be
layered and when is so up there... he tends to look a little bored at
times, but damn that mixing... my high point of the evening was pointing
out the huge circle dancing pit that had created during his techno set...
I don't get it, might never get it, but it was great seeing the look on
Greg's face.  It was also really strange, having tons of people asking me
what I call the music I spin, where to buy it, etc, etc... I guess a lot
of people haven't heard techno mixed with a little bit of minimal trance
or something. Nice to get that kind of exposure, where you're turning
people onto new music (this was by far the closest thing to a massive I've
ever spun at, and to be honest I had a shitload of fun - different but
fun).

So I'm in a really good mood, and I start walking around the party.  Both
of the other rooms were pretty mellow, one playing really clubby house and
breaks and the other busting out some pretty radio friendly R&B to get the
groovers mackin proper.  Not exactly my musical taste, but it made me
marvel at how fortunate we are to have a scene that acknowledges pretty
much all forms of dance music (lotsa people were REALLY getting into it
all over the place). I was very pleased to see a greater level
of diversity... all kinds of people, all colors, different scenes, and I
met maybe two people that I knew previously, and a whole bunch I hadn't.

Outside (it's about 12:30 at this point), the shit starts getting ugly
outside, and the promoters are flipping out... the place is full, and I
guess about 1000 people are REALLY wanting to get in... doh...

All in all, I think it was pretty good.  The price was a little steep I
guess, but permits were really hard to come by for NYE, and I'm sure
there's some additional costs involved with throwing a party on that
night.  I really hope Nomad and other crews that throw larger parties
continue to promote a variety of musics, that was really my favorite
aspect of the event.  Lotta "tough guys", but I didn't see anybody there
really looking for trouble, no noticeable bad vibes while I was there.

Suggestions: Free or $1 water...

So we hop in the car with Herb and Todd and aim for Monterey... 1.5 ish
hours later...

Cloud Factory New Years Eve:

Location was well, remarkably similar to last year's location... very
funky.  Sound was pretty good, but a little too quiet and sounded wimpy if
you weren't right between the speakers.  Totally decked out for an
"underground" complete with 3 full visual screens running various stuff
including lots of custom animations from the viberation crew, and 4
emulators (those funky intelligent lights that can double duty by looking
kinda lasery).

I got there around 2am, and the party is going of in a good solid
underground way... decent vibe from the dance floor, pretty happenin scene
outside too with the Gypsy Uhaul o' Love in full effect (if the rental
truck is rockin, go away or something).  Sith was laying down some twisted
funk, soundscape and jungle... I go back in to check out the remainder of
Astronaut Scott and InTimd8r's set... this is about the point where they
shifted gears and went into jungle, and I spent some good time dancing in
the floor made of rubber shards (the bounce is better suited for dancing
to jungle by the way).  Shot around a bit and then kinda started feeling
crappy about getting there so late (I had this idEa I wanted to
pursue...).  Well, I just rode it out, dancing to the end of Cloud and
Drenalin's 2x4 set and felt pretty damn good about the whole thing.  I
dislike sister sledge, I usually hate disco for that matter, but "we are
family" said so much about the whole CF vibe.  Almost all the old gang
were there, plus a few welcome additions, and we closed the party by all
dancing together for a song or two (and of course I got sentimental and
started totally pondering about OODE, Condensation, the three year, Spin
Cycle, and the rest of the solid events CF has delivered over the past
year and a half I've been fortunate enough to visit them).

It was in my opinion a lot better than last year, where the crowd was full
of really new ravers that were really young and just trying too hard.
This year was emotionally deeper, it sounded better, and the DJs had
improved their 2x4 chops by 1000%.  Really good party, although the drive
home almost killed us (well the road looks pretty straight here, I can
close my eyes for a second... um... no).

New years day consisted of a few friends coming over to the house, and me
not being able to sleep from being too tired.  So I ... er... decided to
pursue that idEa from earlier with my friend Todd who visited from LA for
the NYE... and got made fun of by my best friends for suckin on my own
face, not being able to complete a sentence, enjoying being pet like a 
dog, eyes rolling back into my head for no apparent reason from time
to time, the permagrin, etc. A great night/morning/afternoon/evening. 8P

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I had fun.. I get the feeling this
year is going to go by really slowly, so I'm glad I started it off on a
good note.

Peace,
AndyW


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 03:51:22 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:47:40 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: *MWAH*
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Hey, I hope everyone had a decent NYE.  I gave up on New Years after never
really having as good a time as I thought I should have.  It's amazing how
much more fun you have doing nothing when it's what you expect to be doing.
NEWays, I lounged around my time share with some new friends I made and rang
in 98.  Hm.. all we needed was some speakers and 4x4's to move tha party out
to the desert.  Too bad....
      
Anyways.. it's such a relief to be home.  I was bored out of my mind and
missed the bay area.  ANd all my SFR drama stuff.  Geezz.. you guys really
keep me going.  Fighting and all.   So I'm gonna be wandering around for the
first two weeks of the year and then I'll pop up at Planet Rock.  

I don't care what anyone says about this list.. You guys ROCK... (um.. sorry
RAVE!) and since I'm in a shitty mood from just wasting a week of my life
doing nothing, it makes me feel a ton better to come home and listen to you
all complain.  Is that crazy???

        hugs n'stuff,
           'trice the *unpacking still* tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 04:46:26 1998
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:46:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: forget you like forget me <TANGJ@carleton.edu>
Subject: thanks: prof smith
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so the party on t island sucked. the only good thing was sage and prof smith
outside. will never go to any party where jungle got such crappy spot. it was
slightly louder than my home stereo. never saw profesoor smith spins. he kept
pushing surprising corners and turning sounds around. does he spin anywhere
regularly?  and also, did stareyes spin?  miss her every time.  

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 05:29:57 1998
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In 1998 i will:

  Try to avoid transmission of inter-species diseases from
   hong kong chickens or mad cows

  Avoid airplanes that spontaneously drop 1000 feet
  (especially when they are less than 1000 feet above the ground)

  Stay off the Mir space station

  not eat cloned meat

  Try not to have seven children at once

  Avoid drunk limo drivers on anti-depressants

  not give real name when making campaign bribes

  not send a car all the way to Mars without remembering the spare battery.

  not apply glitter or other makeup to my eyes while
  eating juicy jalopenos


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 06:39:23 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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DAMN RIGHT!!! It's about time.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

pokeyp@usa.net wrote:
> 
> Well, it looks as though SPACECHILDREN has done it to the scene again.
> There New Years party was so far below what they had advertised it to
> be that it was painful. After listening to there voicemail message to get
> directions, ity was pretty obvious what was going on. They had asked
> for a permit from the police for a small amount of people, but were
> planning to have as many as they could fit. I think that it was pretyy funny
> that the police lkimited the bus and boat trips to coincide with the
> number of guests the party was permitted for.
> 
> But, in the end, the party sucked! Friends of mine with pre-sale
> tickets didn't even get in, after waiting nearly 3 hours in line. Those that
> did get in said that it was the worst party they'd ever gone to.
> 
> IT IS TIME FOR THIS SCENE TO STOP SUPPORTING PROMOTERS LIKE
> SPACECHILDREN. THEY ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY< AND ARE WILLING TO TAAKE IT FROM YOU
> HOWEVER THEY CAN>>FALSE ADVERTISING, FALSE PROMOTION, KNOWINGLY PRINTING
> DJ'S WHO WON'T BE AT THEIR PARTY. FUCK THEM, AND DON'[T GO TO THEIR
> PARTIES.
> 
> Sorry for all of the negative stuff, but I'm tired of my friends being
> screwed by these people.
> 
> later,
> pokey
> 
> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 06:58:43 1998
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From: ERMODA <ERMODA@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:56:44 EST
To: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: B E S T  O F  ' 9 7
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Here are my favorites of '97:

FAVORITE PARTIES (In no particular order):

1. Big Top (85th and Baldwin) for Eat Static, Kevin Saunderson, Banco De Gaia
&
    Moby on the Electrotek sound system.
2. Bigfloor (Home Base) for Dan and Donald on the E.A.R. sound system.
3. Believe (2nd & Jackson) for Uberzone (live) and Pink Six anime visuals.
4. Experience (Home Base) for the main room visuals and the main room
    progressive lineup.
5. Celtic (Mission Rock) for the unbelievable banners from Ireland.
6. The Gathering (85th and Baldwin) for A Man Called Adam and Ashley Beedle.
7. Electric Highway (Pier 45) for UV99's visual show during Crystal Method's
set.
8. Nebula (Big Heart City) for Stryke and Uberzone (live).
9. Harmony Massive (2nd & Jackson) for Daniel from Moontribe and Dimension 23.
10. Lifeforce (2nd night, 85th & Baldwin) ONLY!!! for Casper Pound's
progressive morning set.

FAVORITE DJ SETS IN THE BAY AREA (in no particular order):

1. Paul Van Dyke
2. Sasha
3. John Digweed
4. 'Evil' Eddie Richards
5. Stryke
6. Keoki
7. Dan & Donald
8. Daniel (Moontribe)
9. Doc Martin
10. Kevin Saunderson

Just thought I'd share my fav moments.

8) MODA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 07:04:56 1998
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From: luunatik <luunatik@deepthought.armory.com>
Subject: Re: SPACECHILDREN DOES IT AGAIN
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Its about time we got a clue.  The space children haven't thrown anything
for the scene since they started.  They leach this scene and suck it dry.
Support your local crew and mostly your friends.  If thats 6000 people, who
cares.. keep it pure.

PLUR
lUUNATiK


At 10:38 PM 1/2/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
>DAMN RIGHT!!! It's about time.
>Love,
>Paul*E*Wog
>
>pokeyp@usa.net wrote:
>> 
>> Well, it looks as though SPACECHILDREN has done it to the scene again.
>> There New Years party was so far below what they had advertised it to
>> be that it was painful. After listening to there voicemail message to get
>> directions, ity was pretty obvious what was going on. They had asked
>> for a permit from the police for a small amount of people, but were
>> planning to have as many as they could fit. I think that it was pretyy
funny
>> that the police lkimited the bus and boat trips to coincide with the
>> number of guests the party was permitted for.
>> 
>> But, in the end, the party sucked! Friends of mine with pre-sale
>> tickets didn't even get in, after waiting nearly 3 hours in line. Those
that
>> did get in said that it was the worst party they'd ever gone to.
>> 
>> IT IS TIME FOR THIS SCENE TO STOP SUPPORTING PROMOTERS LIKE
>> SPACECHILDREN. THEY ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY< AND ARE WILLING TO TAAKE IT
FROM YOU
>> HOWEVER THEY CAN>>FALSE ADVERTISING, FALSE PROMOTION, KNOWINGLY PRINTING
>> DJ'S WHO WON'T BE AT THEIR PARTY. FUCK THEM, AND DON'[T GO TO THEIR
>> PARTIES.
>> 
>> Sorry for all of the negative stuff, but I'm tired of my friends being
>> screwed by these people.
>> 
>> later,
>> pokey
>> 
>> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 07:24:13 1998
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My favorite Parties:

Euphonic Genesis (Big warehouse is San jose)
Lepidoptera 2 (Cyborganic
Sinister (College Dorm in Berkley)
Viberation (Cyborganic)
Harmony Massive (2nd & Jackson)
Big Floor (Home Base)
Love (Maritime Hall)
Cloud House 1 (Apartment with Elevator)
True Love (Cyborganic)
Wonder (Dance Studio)
Warmth 2 (Dance Studio)

Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 09:01:44 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 03:59:49 EST
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In a comment to the fish, people who have been partying for a while, well,
they should know better.  But it should be realized that the people who these
promoters are trying to advertise to are probably looking for more than
listening to music and seeing friends, this being, getting some actions
between the sheets (and I am not talking about sheets of acid here).  The only
thing that would ever possess me to go to a bad name party is if:
A.  Jungle room >> got it goin on
B.  The price is right
C.  Friends are present
In that order.
But if all three are accounted for then, hell, I am a happy camper.
Happy New Year!!
-Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 09:13:06 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:11:48 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: 97 favorites
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To, 97 was a fun year.
Now as far as memeory serves, these were my favorite parties of 97.  Galactic
tunnel.  Even though they were dirty, stinky, crowded, hot, and the building
had a nasty vibe, they were bomb.  Damn, I remember those old days, it seemed
that at these parties the vibe was up and people were good.  Damn, even when
the celing nearly caved in, it was still a dope vibe, and people were happy.
Anyone else remember those great days at the stevenson warehouse (past the
unfortunate last party and the Golden Gates experience, the later of which I
was involved)?  I also loved all the parties I attended at the Cyborganic
warehouse.  I would tend to go there every weekend for a few months time.
Also, those at the Dance Studio, they were fun, plenty of space to dance and
groove.  My favorite time at the Dance Studio was at Divinity, seeing my
friends Dan (DJ Jack Tripper) play a live jungle set, then going on a run to
Rosa for some nuggets with my brotha Jesse Daniels (I love that kid) who was
coming down off acid and having a hard time concentrating on  the road, almost
hitting palm trees and the like.  I even had fun when a party got busted at 11
pm and we had to drive to the beach in SF.
So, hopefully 98 gives me such good feelings and some more good parties.  I
guess the half of it is the company you keep.  Have an excellent year.  and
many more after.
-Ms. K1dd    

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 10:03:42 1998
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To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: SPACECHILDREN DOES IT AGAIN
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Dear rave-friends,

        Anybody else find this particularly disheartening?

>here is what moshe wrote:

>> ...Promoters dont have to be rave kids, they are promoters and fed up
>>with the
>> scene for the most part.

        How good a job can you possibly do promoting something you are fed
up with?  You may have the skills, but by definition you are lacking the
vibe.
        Someone should flog you with a wet noodle until you smile and
promise to provide free water!   ;)

                                <<< Starchild >>>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 10:28:32 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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I have a question about GHB. I never tried it and am not really planning
on doing it. Still, someone told me that body builders use it because it
induces "slow-wave sleep" in which hormones in your body that are
connected to incresaing muscles are more active. Since GHB is still
legal (as far as I know) this person told me you can go to your local
GNC and purchase it there. Does anyone know anything about this???
Is this true??? 

Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 17:16:19 1998
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:18:40 -0800
To: Katie Zitterbart <marilyn@best.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Opinions please (long)
Cc: Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon <frosting@mailexcite.com>,
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At 1:52 PM -0800 1/2/98, Katie Zitterbart wrote:
>Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon wrote:
>
>> After spinning at a house party a couple of weeks ago, I was talking
>> to some of the
>> people about trance.  One girl said, "You know, I can never tell the
>> songs apart.
>> It all sounds the same.  What are you [DJs] doing?"
>
>I've irked more than one dj by saying  "all you need to know is how to
>count to four."

This was brilliant!  I can't wait to talk to one of my *working* Dj friends
and use this one.  Seriously, you're right, and funny to boot.

One of the things that irks me even more about this whole "I'm a DJ!" thing
is what actually makes a good DJ.  Many people think that they can buy into
being a good DJ.  You know, the right mixer, the right turntables, the
right records, the right this and that.  I have now come to understand this
is only a samll part of the equation.  It really is more of where you come
from and where your heart is.

I can tell just about everything from a good DJ these days.  I can tell
what there economic background is, I can tell what type of experiences
they've had in life (hard vs easy), I can tell their influences (in life,
music, etc.), I can tell whether they listen to others or like Miles Davis
have struck out on their own paying little attention to what others are
doing because they are dancing to their own beat.

And I've heard it all, here are some of the ridiculous golden rules of
DJ'ing I've heard from so many "pro's" it makes me want to puke:

"In order to be a good DJ you must:"
-Learn how to beat match.
-Buy the latest shit.  Nobody wants to hear old tunes.
-Learn how to mix
-Learn how to feel the mood of a crowd.
-Move the crowd with your music.
-Play live, and often.
-Learn what record is next.
-Blahblahblahblahblahblahblah

I'm glad there aren;t too many people who subscribe to these things anymore
since, if everyone did, we wouldn't have jungle or the myriad of other
music available for our listening pleasure.

What I think makes a good DJ are desire, and patience.  All that other
rubbish is for the birds.  Pollywog is a good DJ, Charlotte is a good DJ
(for many folx you have not heard Charlotte go from house into low tempo,
into hip-hop, into a spoken word, into techno, into house).  I use these
ladies as an example since they do not follow the conventions and yet
people when they hear them, are blown away by thier interpretations and use
of music.  The mix is important if all you want to do is count to four
(i.e. house), other than that, all bets are off.

If you feel it, the people you play for will too.

Oh let me debunk some of those silly assed rules:
-Learn how to beat match.
Yes, if you're goin to play house.  Otherwise you need to learn to come in
on a beat, the right one.  this technique is used in hip-hop and jungle. If
you can count to four you're on your way.

-Buy the latest shit.  Nobody wants to hear old tunes.
This is utter rubbish.  It's more how you put a tepstry together than
buying new material.  I have heard old tunes come out which were like I
never heard them before because of the DJ's interpretation.  I say like
what you play, and go for it.  Hip-hop would be nowhere if this rule was
followed, and hip-hop has been around for a longer time than house so I'll
go with the proven time tested ways.

-Learn how to mix
Yes, if your going to be counting to four all night this is essential.  The
mix is much more than beatmatching, and real mixers can do it in all styles
and in all ways.  I have  great respect for hip-hop and jungle DJ's as I do
for house.  But let's face it, I *know* a good hip-hop DJ could mix house
in his sleep.  The same cannot be said of many good house DJ's (except
those who started in hip-hop).

-Learn how to feel the mood of a crowd.
It should be a mood that is coming from you and hopefully people can tune
into what you're doing and trying to represent.

-Move the crowd with your music.
Move yourself and others may follow.

-Play live, and often.
If you aspire to play live this is essential.  But being a good DJ doesn't
require live play.  There are good DJ's in bedrooms who go on to make
music, and there are good *working* DJ's who couldn't put together a record
if they tried.

-Learn what record is next.
Another one.  this is a good technique for presentation, like mixing colors
and knowing what will come out, however sometimes the unexpected leaves the
greatest impression and impact.  Sometimes the *wrong* record can be a very
good thing.  Don;t try to hard though because then you begin to sound
pretentious. Go with your flow and what you know and it will all be good.
Good Dj's throw convention out the window.

-Blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
There are soo many friggin rules it's no wonder the begiining DJ is
confused.  My advice, get under someones wing, keep your ears open, listen
to what you wish and make your own moves.

Of course my debunk is only my opinion in a mass of opinion about what
makes a good DJ.  I could be full of shit as much as these others who have
thier rules.  After all, if my rule is to break rules then I may be nothing
more than a rule breaking rebel.  Well to that I'd say I'd rather be a
rebel than a victim of popular opinion.

Much peace and that was some funny shit:

"What it takes to be a good DJ:"

Definitive answer:
"all you need to know is how to
count to four."

Now go buy some rekkids and play.

Much peace,
John

"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 17:31:11 1998
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:33:47 -0800
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
From: Megan Haggerty <megan@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: a pavlov question
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 10:55 AM -0800 1/2/98, fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>Im real curious as to what makes people go to these
>big partys that are put on by producers that are known
>for having lousy partys. Even after all the talk
>here on sfraves about these partys
>lots of people still went. And now they are saying they
>feel ripped off for going.
(snip)

Regardless of how many times someone hears something, it usually takes
personal experience for a lesson to be learned.  I mean, how many times did
your parents tell you to stay away from the stove because it's hot?  And
how many of us didn't believe them until we actuallly touched it & got
burned?  Only *after* we experienced the pain ourselves did we not touch
the stove anymore, right?

Experience is the best teacher.
Always has been.
Always will be.

Best New Year's Wishes To All...
Megan



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 18:43:37 1998
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Unfortunately, I'd have to say My order would be:
A: Many Friends are attending to be with.
B: Its a k0i0n0nea Party.  Santa Cruz Y0
C: Jungle room is hoppin
D: Price Is Right

At 03:59 AM 1/3/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a comment to the fish, people who have been partying for a while, well,
>they should know better.  But it should be realized that the people who these
>promoters are trying to advertise to are probably looking for more than
>listening to music and seeing friends, this being, getting some actions
>between the sheets (and I am not talking about sheets of acid here).  The
only
>thing that would ever possess me to go to a bad name party is if:
>A.  Jungle room >> got it goin on
>B.  The price is right
>C.  Friends are present
>In that order.
>But if all three are accounted for then, hell, I am a happy camper.
>Happy New Year!!
>-Ms. K1dd
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 19:31:25 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Subject: Re: Question on GHB??
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I thought i heard that the law was recently modified so that it
is now illegal as of jan 1st. Im not sure and would like to know the
current legal status...and personally, this is one chemical
that i would be too upset if it dissapeared, but thats just my personal
opinion.

On a related note...how will the new smoking laws effect raves?
It is now illegal to smoke indoors...will this be enforced at raves?
Will the producers and police be enforcing or ignoring this law?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> I have a question about GHB. I never tried it and am not really planning
> on doing it. Still, someone told me that body builders use it because it
> induces "slow-wave sleep" in which hormones in your body that are
> connected to incresaing muscles are more active. Since GHB is still
> legal (as far as I know) this person told me you can go to your local
> GNC and purchase it there. Does anyone know anything about this???
> Is this true???
> 
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 20:04:14 1998
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To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: glittergirl@value.net (glittergirl@value.net)
Subject: Re: Question on GHB??
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Last I heard, the possession of GHB is not illegal, but it is illegal to
sell it in this state, so I don't think you can go down to the local GNC
and purchase it.  You can buy it via mail, though, in power form.  Check
some websites.

>I have a question about GHB. I never tried it and am not really planning
>on doing it. Still, someone told me that body builders use it because it
>induces "slow-wave sleep" in which hormones in your body that are
>connected to incresaing muscles are more active. Since GHB is still
>legal (as far as I know) this person told me you can go to your local
>GNC and purchase it there. Does anyone know anything about this???
>Is this true???
>
>Love,
>Paul*E*Wog



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 20:54:48 1998
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From: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:53:49 EST
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It's my understanding that FTT wasnt directly involved in the production of
the event, but the SpaceChildren agreed to pay FTT a sum of money in exchange
for permission to use the FTT name and some DJ's. I think.
--Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 20:57:09 1998
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:55:43 EST
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Subject: BSP: SUE-AH 2NITE!!
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                                           Diverse City Presents...
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  January 3rd, 1998

                                                 SUE-AH
                                      (to search for one self)


            an eclectic night of Jungle , Techno, House, and Down Tempo
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                           Djs for the journey will include:

ODDESSEY
* TORONTO, CANADA

JORDAN
*FRESNO

JON WILLIAMS
*SF/ ORGANIZED NOIZE

ETHAN
*SF/ FRIENDS AND FAMILY

NOEL
*SF/ PHUNCKATECK

                                        * 18+ * ALL NIGHT * $10 *

                                       *INFO LINE 415 . 267 . 5939*
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

HOpe to see you out!!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 21:10:43 1998
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:13:16 -0800
To: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
From: Megan Haggerty <megan@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: SPACECHILDREN DOES IT AGAIN
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At 3:53 PM -0500 1/3/98, Tekno313 wrote:
>It's my understanding that FTT wasnt directly involved in the production of
>the event, but the SpaceChildren agreed to pay FTT a sum of money in exchange
>for permission to use the FTT name and some DJ's. I think.
>--Monty

Simply by allowing their name to be used, they became involved, even though
they may have been hands off in the production of the event.  If I were
selling my name, I would at least stand behind the group buying it.  If
they stand behind SC, that says something about them.  If they don't stand
behind them but the offered price for their name just happened to be right,
that too says something about them.  Sounds like a lose/lose situation, to
me.  If they are so easily bought, they deserve to go down with the ship.

Megan



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 21:26:51 1998
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From: jonas@nit.AirTouch.COM (Jonas Edgeworth)
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>
> On a related note...how will the new smoking laws effect raves?
> It is now illegal to smoke indoors...will this be enforced at raves?
> Will the producers and police be enforcing or ignoring this law?
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><

I believe the key word in the new law is "public". By charging an admission
to an event, the facility is now considered private, thereby making it legal
to smoke. Thats why bars are the hardest hit. I've seen two instances where bars 
are getting around it. The first way was a prohibition style lock-out, where the 
management consider the bar a "private party", where you have to knock on the 
door, and give a password. The other method, was to leave a penny jar out in 
front of the bar, and charge a penny admission.

But even if the cops come and cite you, the first offense is only
a 100 bucks. And unless you're running a weekly, it will always be a 100 fine, 
since there is no one venue, and a promoter can always shift responsiblity. But
then again, I could be completely wrong.

Jonas

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 21:27:47 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Question on GHB??
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:28:15 -0800 
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as far as i can tell, sounds illegal to sell, legal to own.

here's a place to buy it in precursor form to synthesize (sounds super
easy).
http://home.earthlink.net/~apuresource/aps_ghb.html

and of course, make sure you do your research on any drug you do, here's
a great starting point:

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/synthetics/ghb/

better living through modern chemistry

dodger


> >I have a question about GHB. I never tried it and am not really
> planning
> >on doing it. Still, someone told me that body builders use it because
> it
> >induces "slow-wave sleep" in which hormones in your body that are
> >connected to incresaing muscles are more active. Since GHB is still
> >legal (as far as I know) this person told me you can go to your local
> >GNC and purchase it there. Does anyone know anything about this???
> >Is this true???
> >
> >Love,
> >Paul*E*Wog
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 21:47:47 1998
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From: "ID W" <idw@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: CBC NYE review (late)
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Well I totally blew off my original NYE plans(sit at home with my 
family) to hang out with my friend who had no plans for New Years Eve

So I meet him about 8pm downtown, we walked around, dropped off my 
motorcycle at his house, had coffee and we are trying to decide between 
going to one of three places(we had no idea what was going on at any of 
them): Union^2, Civic Center, or Embarcadero (I knew about CBC but rave 
style events are just not my friends thing). To make a long story short 
we wound up at Union Square with way too many people that had that usual 
mob mentality which I have never felt comfortable around, I knew at 
midnight that I didn't belong there, because unruly, unfocused, violent 
crowds are not my thing!! In addition some guy in the crowd got totally 
messed up from a random (m-80 style) firecracker(hope he's okay!!), 
among other things. So after midnight had come and gone my friend and I 
ate, we walked back to his house, I picked up my motorcycle and we 
parted company because he needed to go back to his parents house. 

So I'm headed home (2am) and I decide to drive by the CBC, I hear the 
killer groves in passing and just cannot resist. So I park my bike, and 
go on in (first party since dance of the dead on Halloween), it was 
great, I stayed long enough to hear and dance to some killer sets from 
John Carel (<-<- MVDJ for the night !!!), Anon, and Consciousness Lab. 
And the only mind altering substance I had all night was the music, 
which was more than enough to keep me going till 6am. I felt right at 
home, dancing, writing, seeing all the beautiful people wondering around 
the 5 story environment, watching the DJ's, and just chilling on a 
couch, listening to the music.So I leave about then to head home because 
my last day of training was at 3pm that night and I needed my sleep!

I was extremely anti-social that night (at CBC, not at work) but that 
was because I have not been a very social mood all week, kind of lost in 
my own thoughts about living in SF again, going back to school, and 
working two jobs, but I still had a great time!!!

So I come into work at 3 and it turns out that I'm the only one there 
without a hangover (he he, my trainer was going to kill me if I didn't 
remove my large grin on my face [guess I was the only one who wasn't 
drinking the night before from my work]!! *B^) )

Well that's how I spent my NYE!!

-idw
"Kids these days!" - Darth Vader
idw@hotmail.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 22:05:00 1998
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Subject: Cloud Factory/ year in review
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 14:15:26 -0700
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what a nice way to bring in the new year. i was gone for a week and 
didn't have a pre-sale tick.et, but brian came through at the last minute 
with a ticket and a ride :) thanks! as i said the people were great
reagan and angelika and samantha and sig and danny, alex and jenny, karen 
and . one of those parties that makes you feel better about yourself and 
about other people, that's what it's all about. it's been a rough year 
but one i'm pretty proud of. we are family

best of the year.
return to the source, roseland, nyc
click! brooklyn crib
it!, circle k, philly
stacey pullen at twilo, nyc
bbq-beats campout
play nice
vertigo
sunset (date?)
abyss
various outdoors in people's park
cloudfactory nye.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 22:31:02 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: review - Energy Project 1/2/98
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Energy Project was a lot of fun last night, kids!  Thank you so very much 
for all of your support!  We had a nice group of happy chillin' people 
there who seemed to really be into the grooves and liked being together 
for the evening. :)

I had to run to Redondo to pick up Doran (long story...) and had some 
automotive troubles along the way, but we made it in time to open the 
doors and get the show on the road.  Big props to the crew for getting 
the decorations and everythign up so quickly!

Gregg started in with his trademark mix of just enough hits and just 
enough psychedelia adn the crowd was in a good mood.

Doran started up and put on a lot of really fun tracks.  Rumor has it 
there was a new original track that he just got pressed to acetate in his 
set, too!  I love it when DJs bring in their original material!  Doran is 
the superstar he is for good reason and I felt really lucky to have him 
there with us (even if he did disappear to the fast food joint for a 
while) :D

JBondy stepped up to the decks and spun one of the most interesting sets 
I've heard out of him yet.  Some real techy Detroit-ish techno, some dark 
housey tracks, some tracks with spots that went into beatless ambience 
and then back to those thick big-beat rekkids that the kids love

DJ 725 came all the way from the great north of San Francisco adn brought 
with him the most unique sets of the night!  I love it when DJs don't 
conform to the "rules" of techno DJing.  It shows a level of artistry and 
appreciation for the music that goes beyond whatever flash or fame there 
is to spinning records.  And anyone who can drop in a really fresh swing 
tune (too bad I was out workign the door... I wasnted to go in and dance 
a little Lindy Hop!!) and end their set with The Good, The Bad and The 
Ugly gets major respect in my book.  I'm sorry about the unplugging 
problem... Gregg needed to leave really quickly and was a bit anxious :/  
Thank you Josh for sharing your records with us and let us know when 
you're in town again so we can have you back!!!!

Big up to all our supporters and crew.  Extra special thanks to the Intrepid 
Traveller for his generous extra support.

NEXT WEEK:  
ALL-STAR LINEUP INCLUDING JESSE BROOKS (Joe Friday's favorite DJ) AND 
OTHER INTERNATIONAL SUPERSTARS!! stay tuned...
:)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 23:13:47 1998
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Jeyson and Josh are starting thier weekly this coming thursday.  It will
be held at manson (mansion) pub.  The cover is three bucks and they are
located at F and Second in Davis.  The club will be called Schoolhouse
Rocks and trust me IT WILL!!!!
Hours are 10-2 and there is no info line but you can call mansion or one
of us Davis kids for any more info.

Sat Kriya

Ps. it is 21+ and all of us who can sneak in ;)


 > > Hey kids.
> 
> Could one of you Davis Ravers give me the info on Jeyson and Jericho's 
> weekly at Mansion Pub (eg. what night, cover charge, info line #)?  
> Thanks a million.  If there are flyers, I would love to get one at some 
> point.
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 03 23:18:36 1998
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From: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Subject: strawberrys, champagne and crank
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ahhh, a good end to an amazingly good year, and a great start to what
promises to be an even better one.  i can truly say i've started my
new years out the way i intended to, though i didn't wake up with a
new tattoo....

seemed like most of the raves in sf were bust bound, apparently its a
bit of a local nye tradition to shut them down, so we decided to
explore our other options.  after leaving an exceptionally lame hot
tub party in the oakland hills at 11:20, managed to race back to the
city in record time.  got to the anon salon at about quarter till,
inside by 5 till, and scored a bottle of champagne from the bar just
in time to pop the cork and toast the new year with my peeps!  the
anon salon was a great space to bring in the new year, sort of a
burning man/mondo 2000 multigenerational crowd in a small space
covered floor to ceiling in bizzare art installations, not bad for a
last minute backup plan.  downed a pill with the bubbly and started
groovin to an interesting blend of good techno and house and 70's
soul.  god damn i must say dancing to james brown and stevie wonder
and barry white is a whole lotta fun...

wound up at static at about 3am, closed door party but i talked our
way in anyway, place was thumpin, nice pleasantly sketchy crowd of
friendly locals, the bar was still serving drinks when we left at 6...

woke up at noon new years day, my roommates were already up partying
with a bunch of our friends, so i stepped out of bed into a streamer
covered space and had strawberrys, champagne and crank for breakfast
(one more new years resolution already taken care of!)  we kicked it
for a few hours, chatting and listening to a friend spin, then headed
to stompy's where we danced and chilled till after 6 ("look! the sun's
rising!  oh, wait, it's setting isn't it...")  went home and took a
nap till 2:30 am, got out of bed to pee and my roommates were still
going at it, so i got up and continued partying till dawn again...

easily one of the best new years celebrations i've had, have a feeling
this is gonna be a stellar year...

-messiah
 




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 00:44:14 1998
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To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: SPACECHILDREN DOES IT AGAIN
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Curiouser and curiouser!  I wonder how much it costs to buy Funky Tekno
Tribe's name for an evening?
                                <<< Starchild >>>

>It's my understanding that FTT wasnt directly involved in the production of
>the event, but the SpaceChildren agreed to pay FTT a sum of money in exchange
>for permission to use the FTT name and some DJ's. I think.
>--Monty



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 01:55:13 1998
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> On a related note...how will the new smoking laws effect raves?
> It is now illegal to smoke indoors...will this be enforced at raves?
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...make that "smoke indoors in a public place"...if the rave isn't permitted
i don't think anyone should care about whether smoking was taking place...

> Will the producers and police be enforcing or ignoring this law?

...typically the way it works is the health department is called, usually
by a patron...so it's really up to you...


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 01:56:29 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: NRR-Chat up
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hey, I was just wondering...
My brother gave me the name of an online chat site-
something like ardvark, adamak,  I'm not sure.
are there any good chat rooms that y'all, youse guys,
go to- while I like posting I like the immediacy of
live chats- I like to crash the online parties.

pjf

"utilizing only the finest in fuzzy logic"







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 02:04:09 1998
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Anyone coming out to toon town tonight?

I will be working at the door so say hello if you are coming by.
 

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

sorry to those i owe email...hopefully in a few days.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 02:31:21 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
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i'm sure he's talking about alamak.  www.alamak.com.  i'm on there
sometimes as dodger, if ya see me say hi.

but ya might be more interested in #sfraves on IRC or vrave
(instructions on www.hyperreal.org)

dodger

> ----------
> From: 	pj fuzzy[SMTP:pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com]
> Sent: 	Saturday, January 03, 1998 5:53 PM
> To: 	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: 	NRR-Chat up
> 
> hey, I was just wondering...
> My brother gave me the name of an online chat site-
> something like ardvark, adamak,  I'm not sure.
> are there any good chat rooms that y'all, youse guys,
> go to- while I like posting I like the immediacy of
> live chats- I like to crash the online parties.
> 
> pjf
> 
> "utilizing only the finest in fuzzy logic"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 02:31:55 1998
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Subject: RE: tonight at toon town
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i'll be there.  whatcha look like?  I'll have on a huge yellow and
orange top hat and my signature computer geek lil' round glasses.

hope ta see ya all there!

dodger

> ----------
> From: 	fish1111@pacbell.net[SMTP:fish1111@pacbell.net]
> Sent: 	Saturday, January 03, 1998 6:04 PM
> To: 	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: 	tonight at toon town
> 
> Anyone coming out to toon town tonight?
> 
> I will be working at the door so say hello if you are coming by.
>  
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> sorry to those i owe email...hopefully in a few days.
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 08:55:31 1998
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I don't normally post anything, but I must say a few words about
ToonTown.  I've been going to raves for quite a few years now, and I
don't think I've ever seen such a GREAT set up.  Almost every room was
fantastic:  There were lasers in a couple of the rooms, and the long
narrow room had a beautiful collection of banners with a very cool
entrance way.  The music was kickin'  everywhere (especially in the long
narrow room, I think it was Come-Unity's?).  All along the walls there
were different colored pin spots shooting up a angles.  Even though it
was raining everyone there was having a really great time.

After having their permits for New Year's Eve pulled at the last minute,
I think all the people involved with this party deserve praise for being
so dedicated to the scene.  They could have thrown a shitty make-up
party, but instead they threw a party that was better than any of the
New Year's parties I went to.

If you missed this party, you missed out.  Don't miss the next one! 
ToonTown is still great as ever.

Jake


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 17:34:02 1998
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From: "ID W" <idw@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Evil thoughts? (NRR)
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Um, I don't think it would be very evil, more along the lines of 
redundant, if you did this to Dennis Peron :^P



>That's as much fun as the evil thought about planting marijuana seeds
>outside the police department and on the property of politicians and 
law
>enforcement types...  ;)
>
>                                <<< Starchild >>>


-idw
"Point and match" -Rosencrantz or was it Guildenstern ;^)
idw@hotmail.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 18:45:07 1998
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To: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Ed Korthof <ek@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dennis Peron/Pot (NRR)
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At 11:45 AM 12/31/97 -0800, fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
[snip]
>I know several that use marijuana for things like nausea, migrains,depression
>and various other minor ailments. Why should we have to go to a doctor
>everytime we get indigestion or headache? Part of the medical
>problem today is that we have given too much athourity to the medical
>community that is controlled by the government and drug companies which
>by the way are the ones fighting this law. There are so many cases
[snip]

Actually, some professional medical associations (including the AMA)
published results which strongly support the use of marijuana for medical
purposes, within the past year.  Unless they later retracted those or
published conflicting reports, I don't think the medical community is the
group which is fighting against medical marijuana -- it's much more law
enforcement officials and politicians (and possibly drug companies as well
-- if they think they can make more money in other ways...).

Structurally, law enforcement folks have some much to gain by a continued
"drug war" that it's little surprise that many of them are against even
partial legalization.  As for politicians... folks like Pete Wilson and Dan
Lungren (or whatever the attorney general's name is) are just evil, IMO.  I
don't generally like conservative politicians anyway, but California's
conservatives particularly bad -- they've given us Reagan as well as Pete
Wilson (I grew up in Orange County in the eighties, so perhaps I'm not
objective here).

Which is not to say doctors should be the only ones able to determine
whether or not you can smoke pot -- our "drug war" is one of the most
outrageous, self-destructive, and immoral things our government has done
within our borders (and, of course, outside them as well) in the past
century, imo.

Ed


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 20:57:11 1998
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From: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1fc7bc5a.34aff734@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:55:14 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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In a message dated 1/4/98 3:49:00 AM, you wrote:

<<If you missed this party, you missed out.  Don't miss the next one! 
ToonTown is still great as ever.

Jake
>>
I disagree. This party had no vibe. There were too many rooms playing similar
music, and just too many rooms in general for the amount of people who were
there. The Toon Town room's sound system was way too loud. Period. I was'nt
even near the friggin speakers, and anytime I was in that room, my ears hurt.
A fight broke out right in front of me. Looked like a bunch of bored suburban
kids who wanted to build a rep over some bullshit, really. It took about a few
minutes for security to show up to brake up the fight. By that time, it had
pretty much ended on its own. Real effect means of controlling the crowd,
guys!

--Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 21:07:22 1998
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From: "elf" <elf@sirius.com>
To: "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Jungle dj's
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:06:58 -0800
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    Would of ya'll jungle dj's be agreeable to letting me sample some of
your dopest beats?  Just the beats...

    I could arrange for some (cough) sort of kickback and I can travel.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 23:13:38 1998
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From: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
Subject: BSP: HaPpY kIdS oNe YeAr AnNiVeRsArY
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Happy Kids One Year Anniversary
Saturday Jan. 10th 1998

Meandering through this funny existance I have beenso
fortunate enough to stumble upon such beautiful kids
as all of you, my friends. The love, support and good
times have been DY-NO-MITE!!

Now it appears we all keep growing up. As we are
tosseed into time, change keeps making mocking faces,
licking our lives profoundlly. Magic memories seem to
slip through our fingers. Past pals scatter to make
dreams come true. Now I am hopelessly sentimental and
nastalgic, missing the helloutta everyone, i have so
much warmth and glow in who I am because of you . . .
. . US. We touch eachothers' lives in unfathomable
measures, and then, alas, we go on to travel our own
pathes. All I ask is that we stop every once in a
while at our roads' crossings. Sit in the middle of
the intersection, and have show - n- tell and PLAYTIME.

THe child in us is still breathing. Lets see if we
can have her panting, gasping, bawling in laughter
and delite. So come reunite with old homies and also
meet some new ones that you may later remember and
smile about.

                 Many smiles
              Much love, Marty
       "Ian firmly, fully, and fluffily agrees"

Bring all the warm fuzzies and smiles you can muster
up.  Tis true that a positive vibe and lotsa love
make a party!!


We invite you to celebrate the one year anniversary
of HaPpY kIdS wit us on January 10th....

Party goes from 8pm till 4 am in a bust proof
location in sf.
Pre-sale tix on sale @ f-8 in sf for $12
$15 at door b4 10pm
Pre-sale tix soon to be on sale in east bay...south
bay...and north bay.

                  415.750.3020


===

~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~








From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 04 23:31:28 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  ToonTown review (short)
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but the jungle room was KICKIN!
small turnout..


On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Tekno313 wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 1/4/98 3:49:00 AM, you wrote:
> 
> <<If you missed this party, you missed out.  Don't miss the next one! 
> ToonTown is still great as ever.
> 
> Jake
> >>
> I disagree. This party had no vibe. There were too many rooms playing similar
> music, and just too many rooms in general for the amount of people who were
> there. The Toon Town room's sound system was way too loud. Period. I was'nt
> even near the friggin speakers, and anytime I was in that room, my ears hurt.
> A fight broke out right in front of me. Looked like a bunch of bored suburban
> kids who wanted to build a rep over some bullshit, really. It took about a few
> minutes for security to show up to brake up the fight. By that time, it had
> pretty much ended on its own. Real effect means of controlling the crowd,
> guys!
> 
> --Monty
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 00:38:42 1998
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:36:34 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Humor.........NRR
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 I thought this was too funny to save for myself ......
                                                  Carli



..............................................................snip............
.......................................
A teacher gave her fourth-grade students the beginning of a
list of famous sayings and asked them to provide original endings for
each one.  Here are some examples of what they submitted:

The grass is always greener when you leave the sprinkler on.

A rolling stone plays the guitar.

The grass is always greener when you remember to water it.

A bird in the hand is a real mess.

No news is no newspaper.

It's better to light one candle than to waste electricity.

It's always darkest just before I open my eyes.

You have nothing to fear but homework.

If you can't stand the heat, don't start the fireplace.

If you can't stand the heat, go swimming.

Never put off 'til tomorrow what you should have done yesterday.

A penny saved is nothing in the real world.

The squeaking wheel gets annoying.

We have nothing to fear but our principal.

To err is human.  To eat a muskrat is not.

I think, therefore I get a headache.

Better to light a candle than to light an explosive.

It's always darkest before 9:30 p.m.

Early to bed and early to rise is first in the bathroom.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a blister.

There is nothing new under the bed.

The grass is always greener when you put manure on it.

Don't count your chickens -- it takes too long.

Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and someone yells, "Shut
up!"


			Submitted by: Rick Archer @ mum.edu



                \\|//
                (o o)                ORACLE SERVICE HUMOR MAILING LIST
------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-----------------------------------------------

HOW DO I SUBSCRIBE?                  
It's free! Just send a message to 
oracle-humor-subscribe@lyris.oraclehumor.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 00:50:40 1998
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:45:29 EST
To: Tekno313@aol.com, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Re:  ToonTown review (short)
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Are you sure you were at Home Base on Saturday Night? For arguments' sake, I
bring up the following points to your comments: You said that there were "just
too many rooms in general for the amount of people who were there."
Considering the weather, I thought the turn-out was better than it really
should have been. I thought that 1500+ people @ Home Base was far better than
1500+ @ 2nd & Jackson. The promoters had no choice in opening up as many rooms
as they did. Give this some thought; surely, if the event had taken place on
NYE, the amount of rooms might have been perfect for the attendance. The
promoters had no choice but too use the space that they paid $$$ for in
advance. I applaud them for honoring their agreement with their original line-
up. I don't believe any of the artists listed on the promo were cut. Eddie
Richards did not show because of a customs' problem. I praise the promoters
for giving those that were holding pre-sales the event that they were
promised. Now, you claimed that the Toon Town system was "way too loud." I
believe that you're speaking from your own experience. I operated that system
last night, and in my 8+ years in this scene, I've never heard the M2000
system run so good. We weren't driving the system no where near as hard as we
usually run it. I had my DJ mixer's internal master volume turned down @ -12
db. therefore, there was no distortion. Interestingly enough, I spent most of
my evening/morning in the Toon Toon Room, and I came home without my ears
ringing. MAJOR PROPS TO DIANA, MARTIN, ABBEY and all the others responsible
for hosting the BEST NYE party in the Bay Area. As a former Toon Town
Production Coordinator, I look forward to working with my good friends once
again in their efforts to bring you all an example of how wonderful the scene
was in the early '90's.

8) M O D A

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 01:09:35 1998
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From: Katie Zitterbart <marilyn@best.com>
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>From lycaeum's forum on gamma-hydroxybutyrate, "Known in Europe as
Gamma-OH, and in the US as GHB, gamma-hydroxybutyrate is a novel
compound that increases sociability and functions as a true
anti-depressant. It's use was banned in the US in 1990, in spite of the
fact that there was no scientific evidence that it posed any possible
health risk when used responsibly. "
http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/synthetics/ghb/ - for complete info.

Kate





Paul Hayden wrote:

> I have a question about GHB. I never tried it and am not really
> planning
> on doing it. Still, someone told me that body builders use it because
> it
> induces "slow-wave sleep" in which hormones in your body that are
> connected to incresaing muscles are more active. Since GHB is still
> legal (as far as I know) this person told me you can go to your local
> GNC and purchase it there. Does anyone know anything about this???
> Is this true???
>
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 01:59:09 1998
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From: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: Ravermail <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: ATTN: Davis Ravers
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Actually it's at 2nd and Est behind the mansion on that corner and also
behind the Big theater that is around the block on F if you see that.  And
it starts this thurs.

Razor

On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Satkriya Khalsa wrote:

> Jeyson and Josh are starting thier weekly this coming thursday.  It will
> be held at manson (mansion) pub.  The cover is three bucks and they are
> located at F and Second in Davis.  The club will be called Schoolhouse
> Rocks and trust me IT WILL!!!!
> Hours are 10-2 and there is no info line but you can call mansion or one
> of us Davis kids for any more info.
> 
> Sat Kriya
> 
> Ps. it is 21+ and all of us who can sneak in ;)
> 
> 
>  > > Hey kids.
> > 
> > Could one of you Davis Ravers give me the info on Jeyson and Jericho's 
> > weekly at Mansion Pub (eg. what night, cover charge, info line #)?  
> > Thanks a million.  If there are flyers, I would love to get one at some 
> > point.
> > 
> > Thanks a lot!
> > 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 02:18:05 1998
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:17:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: shimmer <shimmer@concentric.net>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Cloud Factory/ year in review
In-Reply-To: <199801032204.RAA25423@newman.concentric.net>
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       Yeap!....CF rocked!!!....and the crew was crazy and fun (ya wacky
drunks ;) ).....It was great talkin' to ya Shimmer..thanks for holding me
up=).......
                                            love-reagan





On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, shimmer wrote:

> what a nice way to bring in the new year. i was gone for a week and 
> didn't have a pre-sale tick.et, but brian came through at the last minute 
> with a ticket and a ride :) thanks! as i said the people were great
> reagan and angelika and samantha and sig and danny, alex and jenny, karen 
> and . one of those parties that makes you feel better about yourself and 
> about other people, that's what it's all about. it's been a rough year 
> but one i'm pretty proud of. we are family
> 
> best of the year.
> return to the source, roseland, nyc
> click! brooklyn crib
> it!, circle k, philly
> stacey pullen at twilo, nyc
> bbq-beats campout
> play nice
> vertigo
> sunset (date?)
> abyss
> various outdoors in people's park
> cloudfactory nye.
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 03:09:07 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Reply-To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Jungle dj's
To: elf <elf@sirius.com>
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Instead, invest in some jungle sample CDs!  They cost about $100 each, 
but for that you get lots and lots of beats, little samples snippets and 
you get the liscencing for the beats so you can legally use them in your 
own arrangements.

A couple of the most popular right now are "Jungle Warfare" volume 1 and 
2 and "Pitbull Jungle".  All of these are available through East West 
Communications (who I do not work for, but who have a great selection of 
sampling CDs).

If you contact them, I'm sure they'd send you a catalogue:

East West 
345 N. Maple Drive, Suite 277
Beverly Hills, CA  90210
vox: (800) 833-8339, (310) 858-8797
fax: (310) 858-8795
www.eastwestsounds.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 04:30:14 1998
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:28:15
From: <annatrip@usa.net>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: record search
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I am looking for a Frankie Knuckles track called the whistle song. It 
was released in 91 on Virgin. If you have it, know someone who has it 
(that would possibly want to make a trade for records or cash), or know 
where I could find it, please email me at:  annatrip@usa.net
thankyous and happy new year!!!!!!!
       



Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 06:51:51 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:45:26 EST
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Subject: toon town review
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I had fun.  The jungle room was dope.  And I was their with my cosmic power
pussy (love you girl!!)  The other rooms I didn't like too much, but it's just
cuz the music doesn't make my booty shake.  They might have been dope too, but
hey, I am just not too down with the music.  My favorite thing about the night
was the fact I had room to dance!! And it wasn't funkin hot as hell inside, it
was actually fairly cool.  So, I had fun at toontown.  And the free fruit in
the morning got me shakin. 
-Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 07:08:23 1998
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:08:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: rekkid wanted
To: Ravers in the Southland <socal-raves@ucsd.edu>,
  "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Okay, I have finally hit the point where I'm going to hit the lists with 
this request because I can't seem to find this rekkid.  If you've got it 
and are willing to sell/trade, let me know:

Cut & Paste "Forget It"

Thanks :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 07:44:36 1998
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:46:57 -0800
To: "Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon" <frosting@mailexcite.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: Opinions please
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Dear Amber,

        You've asked a very good question, and a hard one to answer (for me
at least).  So forgive me if I don't actually answer it, but instead pursue
the interesting train of thought the question raised for me.  8)

        Although if I concentrate I can usually tell when one song being
spun at a rave is fading into another, I'm not usually very conscious of
individual songs, just of a steady flow of sound that permeates the
environment (an effect I find very pleasant!).

        Another interesting thing (to me at least):  I have around a
thousand pieces of vinyl, a good portion of them dance singles, and have
been raving fairly regularly since the end of 1991, but still when I go to
an underground event I doubt I recognize one song out of ten that I hear.
Of course DJs tend to play newer stuff I may not have heard yet, but it is
also my impression that I'm less likely to remember particular tracks spun
at underground raves because they are less distinctive on average than the
typical dance single one might buy, even at a dance-specialty store like
BPM or the Trance & Jungle Factory.

        By "less distinctive" I don't mean necessarily bad, just having
fewer lyrics and longer stretches of similar-sounding beats and samples.
Presumably such tracks are used partly because they are easier to
beat-match into a seamless whole where energy can rise and fall over
several songs rather than peaking and falling within a single song, leading
the dancers more readily into a "trance state".

        Occasionally I'm lucky enough to find this blissful state of
trance, where my movements feel virtually effortless, flowing and
automatic.  During these experiences, I have sometimes thought that from a
body chemistry perspective, the music couldn't possibly get any better.
But I have also noticed that music which "works" well for me at a rave is
not necessarily the same music I enjoy most at home.

        When I have tried to compare the tracks I'm hearing to favorites I
have at home by imagining a song I love played in the same setting, what
I'm listening to often falls short.  I've reluctantly concluded that the
music I enjoy hearing most at home which sends shivers down my spine or
gives me a tingle of excitement is not necessarily best suited to the
stream-of-conciousness DJ-mix style that I hear at raves.

        The anthem-type songs that I buy and love, I rarely hear at parties
In case you're wondering what I mean by anthems, here are a few of my
continuing dance (i.e. techno-trance) favorites.  The newest song on here
is probably a year old, so these have stood the test of time, at least for
me...

Title                                  Artist
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
"Kinetic"                               Golden Girls
"Everybody"                             Capella
"You Got To Know"                       Capella
"Stella"                                Jam 'N Spoon
"What Time Is Love"                     The KLF
"Last Train To Transcentral"            The KLF
"I Sit On Acid"                         Lords Of Acid
"New York London Paris Chicago"         Soup
"Doop"                                  Doop
"I Believe In You"                      Our Tribe
"Insomnia"                              Faithless
"Sweet Freedom: The Return"             Positive Gang
"Boss Drum"                             The Shamen
"Funky Guitar"                          TC 1992
"Radio Freedom"                         Red Family
"Jungle Bill"                           Yello
"Only With You"                         Captain Hollywood Project
"Something Good"                        Utah Saints
"Go"                                    Moby
"James Brown Is Dead"                   L.A. Style
"I'm Raving"                            L.A. Style
"LSD Is The Bomb"                       Radioactive Goldfish
"Jump"                                  Todd Terry
"2/231 (Ooh I Love You Baby)"           Anticapella
"Another One Bites The Dust"            Captain Jack
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

        There are others like Technotronic's "Move This", Pat & Mick's "Use
It Up And Wear It Out", Blondie's "Heart Of Glass", Voice Farm's "Hey
Freethinker", etc., which I would also put on the above list.  To me these
songs are similar to the high-energy dance music listed above, but I don't
think many DJs would play them unless at an '80s-themed new wave event,
more's the pity.  I also know there are those of you who would barf at
these songs, and no doubt will think most of my list is cheesy and
overplayed, but I stand by my tastes.  8)

        Many of the tracks above are from the early '90s, so if you're a
younger raver who likes distinctive, high-energy music, you might try
looking for some of these if you're unfamiliar with them.  And of course if
you can suggest any tracks for me to check out that you think I'd like
based on what I have listed, I'm more than willing to listen (pun
intended).

May the bass be with us,
                                        <<< Starchild >>>


>After spinning at a house party a couple of weeks ago, I was talking to
>some of the
>people about trance.  One girl said, "You know, I can never tell the songs
>apart.
>It all sounds the same.  What are you [DJs] doing?" I told her that it was
>a good
>sign that she couldn't tell when a new record came in...good beat
>matching, etc.
> Later I was wondering...is it really a good sign that they can't tell the
>records
>apart?  Stylistically, of course.  I mean, shouldn't they be able to tell
>that a
>set has gone somewhere?  I was wondering what y'all thought...
>Post if you think others would be interested.  Otherwise, reply straight
>to me.
>
>The curiously strong peppermint...
>>:) Amber
>
>
>
>Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>http://www.mailexcite.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 07:58:45 1998
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From: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:58:07 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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While a good party, Origin (held on NYE at 2nd and Jackson), thrown by Nomad
Interactive, proved to be a real bummer for the many fine talents who actually
made the night come to life. I was very sad to see DJ's and technicians, with
shoulders slumped at 7am, when their payment was finally made to them (5 hrs
late) via personal check. Subsequent verification for funds revealed what all
hoped would not come to pass: INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.  
*******
What happened? A question all who were left with worthless paper in their
hands were asking of themselves.  A very good friend of mine was asked to
front the rental on some very expensive video gear, do the set-up and tech Cy
Funk3's show...a show that would not have gone off with out his generosity of
labor, gear, and trust. If we had not agreed at the last minute to come up for
the gig, VJ Avant would not have had the gear to pull off his portion of the
show--a major aspect of Cy Funk3's act, and (aside from the lasers--good job
guys!) there would have been no video visuals in the main room.
*******
The last communique from Nomad was that they would make good on the money owed
(at least to my friend) on Monday, January 5th. I would very much enjoy
sending a message to this list that all our fears were for naught, and that
Nomad made good on their promise. Until then, my friend (and others) remains
out several hundred dollars for rental equipment he covered, and no payment
for his time, travel and expertise.
*******
To Stacey @ Nomad: Show the people whose talent and equipment are essential to
pulling off great parties that they are appreciated, and that their trust in
you was deserved. When you do, you have my promise that I will immediately
inform this list.

--vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 08:33:14 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:34:14 -0800
To: SF Raves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: throb@netcom.com (Rob Oliver)
Subject: Re:  ToonTown review (short)
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>In a message dated 1/4/98 3:49:00 AM, you wrote:
>
><<If you missed this party, you missed out.  Don't miss the next one!
>ToonTown is still great as ever.
>
>Jake
>>>
>I disagree. This party had no vibe. There were too many rooms playing similar
>music, and just too many rooms in general for the amount of people who were
>there. The Toon Town room's sound system was way too loud. Period. I was'nt
>even near the friggin speakers, and anytime I was in that room, my ears hurt.
>A fight broke out right in front of me. Looked like a bunch of bored suburban
>kids who wanted to build a rep over some bullshit, really. It took about a few
>minutes for security to show up to brake up the fight. By that time, it had
>pretty much ended on its own. Real effect means of controlling the crowd,
>guys!
>
>--Monty

I have to disagree with your disagreements. ;)

While I spent most of the night in the Toon Town room, I moved in and out
of the other rooms throughout the night. No way were they playing similar
music--even as the sound varied from dj to dj within a room. Certainly you
can't say that the Step 2k area sounded like the others!

I was dancing right near the front, near the speakers, in the Toon Town
room and I came away with *no* ear ringing. I do not think it was too loud.
It was a well tuned system.

While I don't think I got the full feeling of the good ole Toon Town
spirit, I think I got a good enough taste of it. DJ Pierre really made my
experience very special (thanks Phred for the ID). Plus there was enough
room to dance; people really gave each other plenty of space to move it.
Nice, nice!

As for the "bored suburban kids," I at first thought I saw these types of
guys. But after talking with and getting to know a few as well as getting
others to start dancing by making motions to them and mouthing "dance," I'd
say your description only counts for a very small group of attendees. If
people didn't at first have the vibe, they picked up on it. In fact, I
think some of the younger folk came to pick up on the "old school"
experience/vibe (as one young guy told me)!

My time at Toon Town was the opposite of that which I experienced at Origin
on NYE (which I resorted to attend due to the Toon Town postponement). I
too came away from this event wanting to tell others that they missed out!
Oh, and speaking of old school, where were all the "old" SF Ravers? ;)

Rob




[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

   "While personal computers remain extremely relevant, they're no longer
    the overwhelmingly dominant fact of techno-life. Communications is
    becoming the story."
    - The San Jose Mercury News

                                  rob oliver
                          san francisco, california

                               throb@netcom.com

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 14:27:21 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:25:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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Just to let you know,
alot of times parties don't break even
and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment providers.
I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN and
WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks dick, yeah,
but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they just enjoy
playing out.
Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
peace

lara
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Vortexbrad wrote:

> While a good party, Origin (held on NYE at 2nd and Jackson), thrown by Nomad
> Interactive, proved to be a real bummer for the many fine talents who actually
> made the night come to life. I was very sad to see DJ's and technicians, with
> shoulders slumped at 7am, when their payment was finally made to them (5 hrs
> late) via personal check. Subsequent verification for funds revealed what all
> hoped would not come to pass: INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.  
> *******
> What happened? A question all who were left with worthless paper in their
> hands were asking of themselves.  A very good friend of mine was asked to
> front the rental on some very expensive video gear, do the set-up and tech Cy
> Funk3's show...a show that would not have gone off with out his generosity of
> labor, gear, and trust. If we had not agreed at the last minute to come up for
> the gig, VJ Avant would not have had the gear to pull off his portion of the
> show--a major aspect of Cy Funk3's act, and (aside from the lasers--good job
> guys!) there would have been no video visuals in the main room.
> *******
> The last communique from Nomad was that they would make good on the money owed
> (at least to my friend) on Monday, January 5th. I would very much enjoy
> sending a message to this list that all our fears were for naught, and that
> Nomad made good on their promise. Until then, my friend (and others) remains
> out several hundred dollars for rental equipment he covered, and no payment
> for his time, travel and expertise.
> *******
> To Stacey @ Nomad: Show the people whose talent and equipment are essential to
> pulling off great parties that they are appreciated, and that their trust in
> you was deserved. When you do, you have my promise that I will immediately
> inform this list.
> 
> --vortexbrad
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 14:39:25 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:37:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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Am I the only one who didn't care about the vibe @ Toon Town?
I mean... I went to dance.. I went to listen to bombass jungle..
I didn't go to worry about the people around me. Does this make me a *bad*
raver? Just curious anyway.
	So.. ToonTown.. Yeah, alot of house, which kept me pretty much in
the jungle room. I wanted to point out that since there was only ONE
jungle room, they should have put it where it was NOT at the entrance. It
gets REALLY annoying when people have to push through all the junglists to
get to the rest of the party. Why not put one of the 4 other rooms there?
OH WELL. the sound was BOOMIN as i like it to be, and i too walked away
with ringless ears despite the fact i was sittin/dancin right next to the
speakers/decks all night long. 
STEP2K room was my residency that night...
	I wasn't particularly impressed with the first (second? dunno) DJ
as his set was anticlimactic, often throwing down a hard track and
following it up with some jazzy mellowish hardstep. just didn't raise the
heat.
	Push i believe was up next and he threw down a few popular anthems
including the obviously kick-ass KRS-one/Goldie track... Next came the
bois... Rinse threw down, shit did HE THROW DOWN! I gotta say i love
watching him spin, his facial expressions are dope. I love his hard dark
style, it's unique i think around here. yum. Then came Flux with his own
style... I admit to wandering at this point, wondering where the hell some
of the people i came with were. Ms. K1dd was my accomplice for the evening
;)
	Sifu comes on next followed by HoneyB and those 2 have a style of
their own, which kept my booty shakin until the very end. Those 2 are the
sweetest junglists I have met in the scene, with perma-smiles and a great
attitude about everything in general. Their rolling basslines are
user-friendly as well ;)
	SO anyway..= That's my opinion. I didn't see an excessive amount
of what i call the bad-vibe kru, I saw less than usual if anything. But
then I wasn't really looking. I didn't care much yanno?
	The decorations were kickass, and the painting wall was cool until
a few people painted ont he walls instead of the butcher paper. Good Job
and too bad more people didn't come... If anything, you junglists missed a
shitload of GOOD sets thrown down by the SF junglist massive.
	xo n see u all at our 1 year next weekend... *HAPPY KIDZ*
lara


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 16:09:26 1998
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From: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:01:08 EST
To: lara@vibe.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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In a message dated 1/5/98 7:30:05 AM, you wrote:

>Just to let you know,
>alot of times parties don't break even
>and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment providers.
>I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
>emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
>Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
>There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN and
>WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks dick, yeah,
>but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they just enjoy
>playing out.
>Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)

thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the difficulties in
promoting large events, having done so many times in the past. Please
understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the presence of a
contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and technicians is one
reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this country. To
put on a show without being able to cover your expenses up front is poor
business and passes the financial responsibility of a successful show onto
those that were hired to perform and tech. This is WRONG. It takes lots of
money to put on shows like this and to pretend that it does not is also WRONG.

Peace, and thanks for your response

--vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 17:24:54 1998
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Origin was so packed, I think they could of paid everyone double and still made huge amounts of cash. Come on, doesn't anyone at Nomad have any respect . Contract or no contract.

ready or not,


Billabong



"lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org> wrote on Monday January 5, 1998 at  6:27am:
>Just to let you know,
>alot of times parties don't break even
>and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment providers.
>I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
>emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
>Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
>There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN and
>WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks dick, yeah,
>but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they just enjoy
>playing out.
>Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
>peace
>
>lara
>On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Vortexbrad wrote:
>
>> While a good party, Origin (held on NYE at 2nd and Jackson), thrown by Nomad
>> Interactive, proved to be a real bummer for the many fine talents who actually
>> made the night come to life. I was very sad to see DJ's and technicians, with
>> shoulders slumped at 7am, when their payment was finally made to them (5 hrs
>> late) via personal check. Subsequent verification for funds revealed what all
>> hoped would not come to pass: INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.  
>> *******
>> What happened? A question all who were left with worthless paper in their
>> hands were asking of themselves.  A very good friend of mine was asked to
>> front the rental on some very expensive video gear, do the set-up and tech Cy
>> Funk3's show...a show that would not have gone off with out his generosity of
>> labor, gear, and trust. If we had not agreed at the last minute to come up for
>> the gig, VJ Avant would not have had the gear to pull off his portion of the
>> show--a major aspect of Cy Funk3's act, and (aside from the lasers--good job
>> guys!) there would have been no video visuals in the main room.
>> *******
>> The last communique from Nomad was that they would make good on the money owed
>> (at least to my friend) on Monday, January 5th. I would very much enjoy
>> sending a message to this list that all our fears were for naught, and that
>> Nomad made good on their promise. Until then, my friend (and others) remains
>> out several hundred dollars for rental equipment he covered, and no payment
>> for his time, travel and expertise.
>> *******
>> To Stacey @ Nomad: Show the people whose talent and equipment are essential to
>> pulling off great parties that they are appreciated, and that their trust in
>> you was deserved. When you do, you have my promise that I will immediately
>> inform this list.
>> 
>> --vortexbrad
>> 


------------------------------------------------------
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 17:53:21 1998
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From: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
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In a message dated 1/5/98 1:45:29 AM, you wrote:

<<Are you sure you were at Home Base on Saturday Night?>>
Oh absolutely. For arguments sake, let me remind you that we all have our own
opinions, and that I am certainly entitled to mine. I think that the party
sucked. It was Vibeless. It was nothing like Toon Town was back in the day. At
least it wasnt like the one I remember attending on Townsend street back in
Feb. '92....


>>For arguments' sake, I bring up the following points to your comments: You
said that there were "just too many rooms in general for the amount of people
who were there." Considering the weather, I thought the turn-out was better
than it really should have been.>>

I disagree, I think we've all been to events that have been amazing whether
the weather was a factor or not....When people want to jam, they jam. Talk to
some of the mid-western transplants who live out here now about how they would
drive across two states in sleet, snow and blizzards just to be at a rocking
party. I also think most of the people who showed up were pre-sale ticket
holders. Maybe the party should have been postponed another week or so. Maybe
the attendance would have gone back up, because at it stood, having a party on
the Saturday night after NYE isnt necessarily a great idea. People get worn
out, and I think that was the case here. But I understand that DJ's,
performers' and equipment schedules are tight, and that's why they did it on
Saturday. 

The collective energy of the relatively small amount of people in attendance
was further diminished by the fact that there were four separate areas of
music, three of which were(while I was there), essentially all playing House.
Anyone who has thrown more than one party knows that this isnt the smartest
thing in the world to do. Is the average club-goer really getting his/her
moneys worth when three of the four main areas in that venue are pumping the
same stuff. I mean, Buck was in one room, while Simon was on in the Gathering
room and some other guy was on in the By the People/Sunset Room and then there
was the D&B room.  

>> Now, you claimed that the Toon Town system was "way too loud." I believe
that you're speaking from your own experience. I operated that system last
night, and in my 8+ years in this scene, I've never heard the M2000 system run
so good. We weren't driving the system no where near as hard as we usually run
it. I had my DJ mixer's internal master volume turned down @ -12 db.
therefore, there was no distortion. Interestingly enough, I spent most of my
evening/morning in the Toon Toon Room, and I came home without my ears
ringing.>>

Dude, let me tell you something. Your ears were ringing after you came home,
you just couldnt hear it. I guarantee you. Even if you had earplugs in, as
most of the people I knew in there did, you would've still had some ringing.
People I talked to in that room who were working there acknowledged that it
was too loud, so don't go there. I've been standing in front of loudspeakers
since I was 15, and if I say something is too loud, it's probably true. The
absence of distortion is immaterial to the fact that it was way too
loud--which is why a few minutes before I left, I actually heard the sound
level go down at one point.


>> MAJOR PROPS TO DIANA, MARTIN, ABBEY and all the others responsible for
hosting the BEST NYE party in the Bay Area. As a former Toon Town Production
Coordinator, I look forward to working with my good friends once again in
their efforts to bring you all an example of how wonderful the scene was in
the early '90's.>>

Uh huh. The party was after New Years' Eve. I think that Martin would welcome
any criticism I, or anyone else would have about this event. Constructive or
no. Brownosing and coddling will lead you nowhere.

Happy New Year

--Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 17:55:39 1998
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From: "Neves, Kathleen" <kneves@gwa.com>
To: 'sfraves' <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Nomad: Origin 
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:59:19 -0800
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Among all these other problems surfacing around Nomad's Origin party 
on NYE, about people not getting paid, the space being totally packed, 
etc. etc. Did anyone happen to notice the fact that Mark Farina did 
not play the 5 hour set as promised? Was anyone bothered by that? I 
know I was. I think it was more like a two hour set that ended with 
the record constantly skipping and stopping. The guy who played 
directly after him seemed to do fine. So what is the deal? Anyone 
know? I don't buy the "there was a problem with Mark Farina's mixer 
story". I feel that was a cop out. Anyone?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 18:04:14 1998
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     i must say... cf was one of the best parties i've experienced! and to 
     that i owe 'JONATHAN' a big hug. he gave up his tix for me!  you rock 
     my world :)!!
     
     thank you CF for a great entrance, one year closer to the millenium!
     
     hugs to everyone,
     
     have a happE day
     
     Lacie
     >inkerbelle


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 18:06:54 1998
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From: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:03:13 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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In a message dated 1/5/98 3:40:19 PM, you wrote:

<<Am I the only one who didn't care about the vibe @ Toon Town? I mean... I
went to dance.. I went to listen to bombass jungle.. I didn't go to worry
about the people around me. Does this make me a *bad* raver?>>

No, but it does make you sound lame. And if you were so unconcerned with the
vibe, then why say this:

>> I wasn't particularly impressed with the first (second? dunno) DJ
as his set was anticlimactic, often throwing down a hard track and
following it up with some jazzy mellowish hardstep. just didn't raise the
heat.>>

What you describe here is that the DJ in question basically didnt create a
mood you could appreciate for one reason or another, right? This is what is
called a "vibe" amongst the people I chill with, and it's exactly what I felt
was missing on Saturday night. There was no discernible mood that was set
anywhere in that building I could feel. They "just didnt raise the heat."

And if I read one more post from someone who said they went home and their
ears werent ringing after standing in front of the speakers all night, I'm
going to laugh myself out of my office and into the unemployment line!

--Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 18:33:32 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
To: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
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Hey Tek, don't go callin' my gurl Lara lame.  
She's got more hipness in her little pinky toe than most ravers got in 
their whole booty!


On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Tekno313 wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 1/5/98 3:40:19 PM, you wrote:
> 
> <<Am I the only one who didn't care about the vibe @ Toon Town? I mean... I
> went to dance.. I went to listen to bombass jungle.. I didn't go to worry
> about the people around me. Does this make me a *bad* raver?>>
> 
> No, but it does make you sound lame. And if you were so unconcerned with the
> vibe, then why say this:
> 
> >> I wasn't particularly impressed with the first (second? dunno) DJ
> as his set was anticlimactic, often throwing down a hard track and
> following it up with some jazzy mellowish hardstep. just didn't raise the
> heat.>>
> 
> What you describe here is that the DJ in question basically didnt create a
> mood you could appreciate for one reason or another, right? This is what is
> called a "vibe" amongst the people I chill with, and it's exactly what I felt
> was missing on Saturday night. There was no discernible mood that was set
> anywhere in that building I could feel. They "just didnt raise the heat."
> 
> And if I read one more post from someone who said they went home and their
> ears werent ringing after standing in front of the speakers all night, I'm
> going to laugh myself out of my office and into the unemployment line!
> 
> --Monty
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 18:40:20 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: "Tekno313" <Tekno313@aol.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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><<Am I the only one who didn't care about the vibe @ Toon Town? I mean... I
>went to dance.. I went to listen to bombass jungle.. I didn't go to worry
>about the people around me. Does this make me a *bad* raver?>>

I don't get it. Why does this make this person sound lame?


Please reply. But I doubt I will have the time to correct your mistakes.

=]:..
Jeff


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 18:44:48 1998
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And Lara is quiet aware that the music can create the vibe.
 But you know as well as I, she was NOT talking about "that" vibe.

I think. I don't know...
You got your music vibe, and you got your people vibe. And sometimes, it
just don't matter how good your music vibe is. Half the ravers are to busy
creating other one's no matter what mood is set with the music.

Jeff


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 18:49:59 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Aloha
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=adama+40magicarts+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of 01-02-98 11:58

sup Adama!...not a problem, Brian was way cool...do unto others right?...got to
spread the PLUR no matter where we are...had a great time, mystic
actually...questioned fate/destiny and got sledge hammered with some heavy
occurences...chased the sunrise on the east side of the island and walked on
the beach for a few miles with the first sunrise of the new year...regards to
your people...take care...

e malama pono,
Moki


---- Included Message ----

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Brian got back last night and told me about his trip. Sounds like you all
had an awesome time. I have to say that I've hesitated before ever meeting
anyone from this list. In fact, I never have. I'm really glad you met up
with Bri, b/c now I know that there are some really kewl people out there
who share this list as a bond. Be sure to send me an e-mail or call whenever
you're coming to San Francisco. My home is your home.


Home:    415-885-0108
Work:     415-543-7794
Pager:    1-800-SPRINT-1, pin# 3968551



Peace,
Adam

Adam Allen
MagicArts Corporation
adama@magicarts.com
www.magicarts.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 19:00:06 1998
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To: Vortexbrad@aol.com, lara@vibe.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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hi lara!!....  *8)


just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the space
where they held the party is owned by the promoters...they did much more
than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see that a
sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm not
gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
believe that they can retain their credibility...

an example of where their intentions are....in their pockets...>smirk<



miragirl

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Vortexbrad [SMTP:Vortexbrad@aol.com]
> Sent:	Monday, January 05, 1998 8:01 AM
> To:	lara@vibe.org; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject:	Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/5/98 7:30:05 AM, you wrote:
> 
> >Just to let you know,
> >alot of times parties don't break even
> >and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment
> providers.
> >I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
> >emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
> >Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
> >There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN
> and
> >WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks dick,
> yeah,
> >but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they just
> enjoy
> >playing out.
> >Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
> 
> thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the difficulties in
> promoting large events, having done so many times in the past. Please
> understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the
> presence of a
> contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and technicians is
> one
> reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this
> country. To
> put on a show without being able to cover your expenses up front is
> poor
> business and passes the financial responsibility of a successful show
> onto
> those that were hired to perform and tech. This is WRONG. It takes
> lots of
> money to put on shows like this and to pretend that it does not is
> also WRONG.
> 
> Peace, and thanks for your response
> 
> --vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 19:03:42 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Question on GHB?? (Spundae NYE)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:03:06 -0800
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Pretty sure GHB is illegal... They pulled it off the shelves at GNC  years
ago. GNC used to sell it in powder form.

So no SPUNDAE reviews huh?
 Was it packed? Hell yes.. To packed to dance.. But I managed.
I was lucky enough to bump into a couple of beautiful SFRavers right at the
NYE count down . =]:.. I hope to see you all soon.
 This is my responcible year. No more drugs mang. You kids will understand
someday that... There no good for you.

 Anyways. Speachless.
  I had a pretty depressing weekend after New Years..

Let's just see how things turn out this year.
PHONE CALL!
Jeff





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 19:12:09 1998
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From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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If you're not gonna "name-game", how are we going to separate the 
proverbial wheat from the chaff?  Let's expose these greedy bastards
who are out to bust up the scene and take as much money out of it as
possible.  That way we can boycott their "parties" and tell our
off-list friends about their atrocities, as well as giving our hard-
earned cash to those who are truly deserving and supportive of the
scene and PLUR.

On a tangential note (ooh! $5 word!), perhaps it's a good thing that 
we have these losers who throw massives that attract other losers.
Keeps them from going to the smaller ug parties and ruining them
by their presence . . .

Just my 1/50th of a dollar.

PLUR-all,
Steve.

BTW, anyone else go to 30 Minna late nite on NYE?

mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> 
> hi lara!!....  *8)
> 
> just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the space
> where they held the party is owned by the promoters...they did much more
> than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see that a
> sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
> play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm not
> gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
> believe that they can retain their credibility...
> 
> an example of where their intentions are....in their pockets...>smirk<
> 
> miragirl
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vortexbrad [SMTP:Vortexbrad@aol.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:01 AM
> > To:   lara@vibe.org; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > Subject:      Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/5/98 7:30:05 AM, you wrote:
> >
> > >Just to let you know,
> > >alot of times parties don't break even
> > >and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment
> > providers.
> > >I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
> > >emptyhanded when promised a fee.
> > >Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
> > >There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN
> > and
> > >WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks dick,
> > yeah,
> > >but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they just
> > enjoy
> > >playing out.
> > >Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
> >
> > thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the difficulties in
> > promoting large events, having done so many times in the past. Please
> > understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the
> > presence of a
> > contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and technicians is
> > one
> > reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this
> > country. To
> > put on a show without being able to cover your expenses up front is
> > poor
> > business and passes the financial responsibility of a successful show
> > onto
> > those that were hired to perform and tech. This is WRONG. It takes
> > lots of
> > money to put on shows like this and to pretend that it does not is
> > also WRONG.
> >
> > Peace, and thanks for your response
> >
> > --vortexbrad

-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:01:39 1998
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:03:02 +0000
From: jen ya good missy nub nubbin <jenniw@pacbell.net>
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I have to agree with Monty here.  Granted, I was only at the party for
less than
an hour or so around midnite, but while I was there my ears were killing
me.
I was mostly in the water bar sushi bar area, but did walk through all
of the
rooms and have to say that it was a bit painful.

And again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I would give
Monty a little
credit though.  And basically, if you had a good time, then that's
great.  But, it
is kind of hard to convince someone of the relative greatness of
anything.  They
have to try it themselves and if they like it, great and if they don't,
oh well.

Whatever that meant.....

see ya
jen
 
 
 

Tekno313 wrote:

> In a message dated 1/5/98 1:45:29 AM, you wrote:
>
> <<Are you sure you were at Home Base on Saturday Night?>>
> Oh absolutely. For arguments sake, let me remind you that we all have
> our own
> opinions, and that I am certainly entitled to mine. I think that the
> party
> sucked. It was Vibeless. It was nothing like Toon Town was back in the
> day. At
> least it wasnt like the one I remember attending on Townsend street
> back in
> Feb. '92....
>
> >>For arguments' sake, I bring up the following points to your
> comments: You
> said that there were "just too many rooms in general for the amount of
> people
> who were there." Considering the weather, I thought the turn-out was
> better
> than it really should have been.>>
>
> I disagree, I think we've all been to events that have been amazing
> whether
> the weather was a factor or not....When people want to jam, they jam.
> Talk to
> some of the mid-western transplants who live out here now about how
> they would
> drive across two states in sleet, snow and blizzards just to be at a
> rocking
> party. I also think most of the people who showed up were pre-sale
> ticket
> holders. Maybe the party should have been postponed another week or
> so. Maybe
> the attendance would have gone back up, because at it stood, having a
> party on
> the Saturday night after NYE isnt necessarily a great idea. People get
> worn
> out, and I think that was the case here. But I understand that DJ's,
> performers' and equipment schedules are tight, and that's why they did
> it on
> Saturday.
>
> The collective energy of the relatively small amount of people in
> attendance
> was further diminished by the fact that there were four separate areas
> of
> music, three of which were(while I was there), essentially all playing
> House.
> Anyone who has thrown more than one party knows that this isnt the
> smartest
> thing in the world to do. Is the average club-goer really getting
> his/her
> moneys worth when three of the four main areas in that venue are
> pumping the
> same stuff. I mean, Buck was in one room, while Simon was on in the
> Gathering
> room and some other guy was on in the By the People/Sunset Room and
> then there
> was the D&B room.
>
> >> Now, you claimed that the Toon Town system was "way too loud." I
> believe
> that you're speaking from your own experience. I operated that system
> last
> night, and in my 8+ years in this scene, I've never heard the M2000
> system run
> so good. We weren't driving the system no where near as hard as we
> usually run
> it. I had my DJ mixer's internal master volume turned down @ -12 db.
> therefore, there was no distortion. Interestingly enough, I spent most
> of my
> evening/morning in the Toon Toon Room, and I came home without my ears
>
> ringing.>>
>
> Dude, let me tell you something. Your ears were ringing after you came
> home,
> you just couldnt hear it. I guarantee you. Even if you had earplugs
> in, as
> most of the people I knew in there did, you would've still had some
> ringing.
> People I talked to in that room who were working there acknowledged
> that it
> was too loud, so don't go there. I've been standing in front of
> loudspeakers
> since I was 15, and if I say something is too loud, it's probably
> true. The
> absence of distortion is immaterial to the fact that it was way too
> loud--which is why a few minutes before I left, I actually heard the
> sound
> level go down at one point.
>
> >> MAJOR PROPS TO DIANA, MARTIN, ABBEY and all the others responsible
> for
> hosting the BEST NYE party in the Bay Area. As a former Toon Town
> Production
> Coordinator, I look forward to working with my good friends once again
> in
> their efforts to bring you all an example of how wonderful the scene
> was in
> the early '90's.>>
>
> Uh huh. The party was after New Years' Eve. I think that Martin would
> welcome
> any criticism I, or anyone else would have about this event.
> Constructive or
> no. Brownosing and coddling will lead you nowhere.
>
> Happy New Year
>
> --Monty

  


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:08:03 1998
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Gee, Kids, It seems like it was just yesterday when we were all
complaining about Nomad and their consumer-unfriendly endeavors.

Maybe the few remaining folks out there that haven't heard the news
should write this down:  NOMAD IS BAD.  

Diana Greer

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:08:25 1998
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From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
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At 11:01 AM 1/5/98 EST, Vortexbrad wrote:
>thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the difficulties in
>promoting large events, having done so many times in the past. Please
>understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the presence of a
>contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and technicians is one
>reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this country.

Bzzzt.  I think there's an direct correlation between the rise of
techno/raving in the US and the presence of money-grubbing half-witted
promoters who are *all* into it for the money, at the expense of everyone
else.  

There's only so many people Nomad will be able to fuck over before they run
out of victims and can't throw any more parties in SF.  Unfortunately
there's a lot of people in this area for them to fuck over before they
quit, and also unfortunately, they're destroying up otherwise progressive
relationships with authorities.

Don't extrapolate Nomad's behavior upon the promoters in SF in general, by
any means.

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:10:54 1998
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Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
To: lara@vibe.org (lara at vibe.org)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:58:37 -0800 (PST)
Cc: Vortexbrad@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980105092241.28528C-100000@linux.announce.com> from "lara at vibe.org" at Jan 5, 98 09:25:15 am
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> Just to let you know,
> alot of times parties don't break even
> and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment providers.

There seems to be a case of wanting to have cake and eat it too. I've read
complaints here of promoters being in it for the money. But at the same time,
entertainment providers won't work for scooby snacks either. Nomad is a case
where they suffered. Throwing parties is a business. Whether you are in it
for the $ or not, it should be run like a business.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:11:39 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-03 14:31:52 EST, fish1111@pacbell.net writes:

<< On a related note...how will the new smoking laws effect raves?
 It is now illegal to smoke indoors...will this be enforced at raves?
 Will the producers and police be enforcing or ignoring this law?
 
 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
  >>
.................snip.........................................................
......

    from what our local rag says, the police will only enforce the law after 
   a number of complaints of noncompliance.
   so, if peeps don't complain, it's a non-issue.
   the reality of the law is,that its uninforceable.
   
                                               carli
    





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From: "Digital Devil" <raf_one@hotmail.com>
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  mira@wellsfargo.com
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I happen to have not only DJ'd but also worked the Orgin Party in 
advance. As far as I know, everyone got paid-there was a suspicion 
raised about the promoters because alot of the djs had to wait awhile 
before getting paid altho this sucks (I was waiting too) I do happen to 
know that they were dealing with the police so that the party did not 
get shut down (New Year's it seems permits don't mean shit anywhere). 
Also this location has served as a back-up many a time and has one time 
or another saved many a party from not happening. There are a lot of 
things that happen behind the scenes in order for a party to happen. Not 
just setting up but a lot of other things beyond any single individual's 
control. I think the Orgin new year's went pretty damn well. any CYFUNK 
3 rocked it!(as well as being very humble and down to earth).  As it has 
been said before before you go and denounce Nomad once again do some 
checking on the facts before you jump on the bandwagon.


Raf

>
>
>just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the space
>where they held the party is owned by the promoters..
.they did much more
>than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see that a
>sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
>play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm not
>gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
>believe that they can retain their credibility...
>
>an example of where their intentions are....in their pockets...>smirk<
>
>
>
>miragirl
>

>> 
>> >Just to let you know,
>> >alot of times parties don't break even
>> >and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment
>> providers.
>> >I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
>> >emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
>> >Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
>> >There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN
>> and
>> >WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks dick,
>> yeah,
>> >but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they just
>> enjoy
>> >playing out.
>> >Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
>> 
>> thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the difficulties 
in
>> promoting large events, having done so many times in the past. Please
>> understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the
>> presence of a
>> contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and technicians is
>> one
>> reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this
>> country. To
>> put on a show without being able to cover your expenses up front is
>> poor
>> business and passes the financial responsibility of a successful show
>> onto
>> those that were hired to perform and tech. This is WRONG. It takes
>> lots of
>> money to put on shows like this and to pretend that it does not is
>> also WRONG.
>> 
>> Peace, and thanks for your response
>> 
>> --vortexbrad
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:34:40 1998
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:05:45 -0800
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From: Terri Young <ez053642@sol.ucdavis.edu>
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OKAY SMOKAY

lara - you're absolutely right in NOT caring about the surroundings and
just dancing dancing dancing.  THAT is HOW the vibe is created - by not
worrying what others are thinking or doing and just having fun.

rob - I am 27 and where were you all night Mr. old SF raver??????  I had
Ms. candy-bright blue hair, ya couldn't have missed me as I am an old-style
old folk.

ANYWAY

I had a wonderful time, although the crowd was a little young-n-tuff, I
actually really enjoy the refreshing young vibe MIXED in of course with an
older crowd so I don't feel so much like a Teaching Assistant hanging out
with my students. There was plenty of space even when it was really crowded
after 2 am.  The lights, etc. were quite enjoyable and gave a happy gleam
to my eye (well, that wasn't the only thing). But the music, the music,
took me there more than once, especially in the Toontown room and in the
House room when Mark(?) was spinning between 2 and 3 am. I danced so hard I
thought I was gonna fall over and drop dead, which would have been the
perfect way to die, by the way. 

I loved those fruit people from Santa Cruz.

It was great to finally meet Ms. Natasha and by chance run into
Dodger-with-the-cool-hat.

I am in a good mood and should really get to work while it lasts.

Peace and love to every little dove out there!

Terri



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:49:25 1998
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To: raf_one@hotmail.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:46:26 -0800
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	johnny fiasco was driven to airport steaming mad...no pay...not
saying this to contribute to mass-hysteria doggin' that often happens on
this list...but i feel it is important to relay the facts as they
stand....

	oh...also wanted to mention in light of recent concerns...some
props must be given to vsf and stompy for recent efforts to curb their
security frenzy...stompy went off with much less of them and damn....did
you see that line?

	*8)


	miragirl
	____________________________

	etc..etc...etc.... 
	>  As it has been said before before you go and denounce Nomad
once again do some checking on the facts before you jump on the
bandwagon.


> Raf
> 
> >
> >
> >just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the
> space
> >where they held the party is owned by the promoters..
> .they did much more
> >than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see that
> a
> >sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
> >play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm
> not
> >gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
> >believe that they can retain their credibility...
> >
> >an example of where their intentions are....in their
> pockets...>smirk<
> >
> >
> >
> >miragirl
> >
> 
> >> 
> >> >Just to let you know,
> >> >alot of times parties don't break even
> >> >and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment
> >> providers.
> >> >I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass
> playing
> >> >emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
> >> >Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
> >> >There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters
> CAN
> >> and
> >> >WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks
> dick,
> >> yeah,
> >> >but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they
> just
> >> enjoy
> >> >playing out.
> >> >Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
> >> 
> >> thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the difficulties
> 
> in
> >> promoting large events, having done so many times in the past.
> Please
> >> understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the
> >> presence of a
> >> contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and technicians
> is
> >> one
> >> reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this
> >> country. To
> >> put on a show without being able to cover your expenses up front is
> >> poor
> >> business and passes the financial responsibility of a successful
> show
> >> onto
> >> those that were hired to perform and tech. This is WRONG. It takes
> >> lots of
> >> money to put on shows like this and to pretend that it does not is
> >> also WRONG.
> >> 
> >> Peace, and thanks for your response
> >> 
> >> --vortexbrad
> >
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:57:18 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:57:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: [BSP] Happy Kids' 1-Year this Saturday 1/10!!!
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Okay kids, I think this is the one you've been waiting for. :)

Happy Kids are havin gtheir 1-year celebration and it's going to be 
great!  I'm flying up from the southland with a box full of breaks to 
help keep the party moving and there are a grip of high-class DJs that 
will be rocking your world at this party (including my namesake, DJ Noah 
from LA who I haven't met yet but have tried to meet about 50 times!).

Call the Happy Kids number at 415-750-3020 for the DJ list (you'll be 
impressed!) and other important info!!

I can't wait to come up and party with all you great folks again!  I've 
missed you tons and tons and tons!  See you Saturday!!!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:58:47 1998
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From: jen ya good missy nub nubbin <jenniw@pacbell.net>
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That depends on whether you are throwing a party or a
rave/event/concert.
IMHO, a party is where you get a group of friends together and maybe
invite
all of their friends and even maybe their friends friends and get
together to
hang out and have a good time doing whatever you like to do at a party.
I think that most people would spin for free at a party like that.   And
somehting
like that doesn't need to be run as a business, right?

But something LARGEscale with lots of $ involved IS a business.  But I
wouldn't
really call it a party.

see ya
jen
 
 

Sharif Torpis wrote:

> > Just to let you know,
> > alot of times parties don't break even
> > and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment
> providers.
>
> There seems to be a case of wanting to have cake and eat it too. I've
> read
> complaints here of promoters being in it for the money. But at the
> same time,
> entertainment providers won't work for scooby snacks either. Nomad is
> a case
> where they suffered. Throwing parties is a business. Whether you are
> in it
> for the $ or not, it should be run like a business.

 

  


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 20:59:35 1998
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:57:10 -0800
To: "Digital Devil" <raf_one@hotmail.com>
From: Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com>
Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
Cc: Vortexbrad@aol.com, lara@vibe.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  mira@wellsfargo.com
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At 12:24 PM 1/5/98 PST, Digital Devil wrote:
>
>I happen to have not only DJ'd but also worked the Orgin Party in 
>advance. As far as I know, everyone got paid-

I personally know one dj and sound person who did not get paid.  They have
been unsuccessful in trying to contact the promoters since the party.  This
is not "as far as I know", this is absolute fact.  And according to them,
there were many other djs, sound people, and lighting people who did not
see a cent.  

-Seth

>there was a suspicion 
>raised about the promoters because alot of the djs had to wait awhile 
>before getting paid altho this sucks (I was waiting too) I do happen to 
>know that they were dealing with the police so that the party did not 
>get shut down (New Year's it seems permits don't mean shit anywhere). 
>Also this location has served as a back-up many a time and has one time 
>or another saved many a party from not happening. There are a lot of 
>things that happen behind the scenes in order for a party to happen. Not 
>just setting up but a lot of other things beyond any single individual's 
>control. I think the Orgin new year's went pretty damn well. any CYFUNK 
>3 rocked it!(as well as being very humble and down to earth).  As it has 
>been said before before you go and denounce Nomad once again do some 
>checking on the facts before you jump on the bandwagon.
>
>
>Raf


|||| d j . s u t e k h 
|||| b e l i e f - s y s t e m s  
|||| o a k l a n d . c a . u s a
|||| http://www.belief-systems.com
|||| http://www.nodeone.com/static
|||| http://oms1.berkeley.edu/KALX

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:00:23 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: is there NoTV on tonite
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just wundering.

thought it was every 1st monday of month.

if it is then i'll be there!!!

pjf 
fuzzy but not frazzled yet.








From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:01:37 1998
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Hey Noah!

It will be Super! Super! to have you here in the Bay!

Diana

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:06:46 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [BSP] Happy Kids' 1-Year this Saturday 1/10!!!
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*In* the bay!  I think it might be a little too cold to get *in* the bay...

:D :D :D :D

What's the weather like up there anyway?  I wanna make sure I don't 
freeze like I did when I came up for RTD... Man-o-Man was I chilly!

On Mon, 5 
Jan 1998, inanna wrote:

> Hey Noah!
> 
> It will be Super! Super! to have you here in the Bay!
> 
> Diana
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:08:15 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Week in review (LONG)
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Well my NYE started off with me calling in Sick to
work. Well I was a little sick :p~   So I start my
day doing usually stuff. And end up on a sketch
mission all day. I tried to get CFC tickets but heard
they were sold out. I would have gotten a ticket
sooner but I was supposed to play a party and then
heard the promoters backed out. Then come to find out
the party did happen with some of the DJ's I was
supposed to spin with. So I assume I got dissed on
that one. But anyway that is another long story. So I
think to myself I am not going to waste my money on
any of the other parties and such plus I got asked to
play at a small XOR Mixing lab party. SO I show up
there in time before NYE and at midnight we all had
yucky champagne Man that stuff sucks!! but I got to
give props to my Boys down at the XOR mixing lab they
were throwing down the phat beats a new/old addition
to the mixing lab is this dope house DJ Winston from
Colorado this boy makes some of these Jeno Garth
types look weak. He has the cleanest skillz I have
seen in a while. Nice track selections and superb
mixing skillz look out for him he will be playing one
of my up and coming parties. So we all chilled out
there it was nice and small. 

Now on to Saturday:
I thought to myself I would go to the Toon Town party
and rock on down cause they had a nice lineup and I
had never seen Pierre before but have bought many of
his rekkids. So we all trek down to homebase and I
have to say that the Decor was excellent I love the
banners and black lights lasers etc!! That place
looked real good the Sound system was very clean. The
crowd was very small I thought it would be a bigger
turnout. I could tell they lost a lot of $$$ I feel
bad for them cause they put on a good party but the
people were just not there. The people that were
there though were having a good time. The vibe was
spotty by my means. The Two best DJ's of the night
was Markie playing hard acid house from 2-3 in the
Come-unity room and DJ Pierre. Pierre through down
the hard acid house it was so good on the virge of
Tek/house it was hard for me to get in the frame of
mind though cause as he was going off I was going off
hard but people around me looked confused on how to
act or feel I could tell they were not getting it. A
lot of people were just shaking there heads and hands
like if they were at a 2short concert :( but it was
nice beats. His skillz were not all that great but
track selection was nice. All and all it was a nice
party just real sparse at most points.

Sorry so long but that is just about it!!

Macadio (Mack-Audio)


===









From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:12:09 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
To: Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com>, Digital Devil <raf_one@hotmail.com>
Cc: Vortexbrad@aol.com, lara@vibe.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
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I have a few friends also Seth, who got shit. Besides
some of the out of town folks who were MORE than
pissed at the Bart station and had plenty of words to
say on the matter. Raf perhaps you should take your
own advice, like you said, there is a lot that goes
on behind the scenes.   

Just my .02 cents
LL





---Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com> wrote:
>
> At 12:24 PM 1/5/98 PST, Digital Devil wrote:
> >
> >I happen to have not only DJ'd but also worked the
Orgin Party in 
> >advance. As far as I know, everyone got paid-
> 
> I personally know one dj and sound person who did
not get paid.  They have
> been unsuccessful in trying to contact the
promoters since the party.  This
> is not "as far as I know", this is absolute fact. 
And according to them,
> there were many other djs, sound people, and
lighting people who did not
> see a cent.  
> 
> -Seth
> 
> >there was a suspicion 
> >raised about the promoters because alot of the djs
had to wait awhile 
> >before getting paid altho this sucks (I was
waiting too) I do happen to 
> >know that they were dealing with the police so
that the party did not 
> >get shut down (New Year's it seems permits don't
mean shit anywhere). 
> >Also this location has served as a back-up many a
time and has one time 
> >or another saved many a party from not happening.
There are a lot of 
> >things that happen behind the scenes in order for
a party to happen. Not 
> >just setting up but a lot of other things beyond
any single individual's 
> >control. I think the Orgin new year's went pretty
damn well. any CYFUNK 
> >3 rocked it!(as well as being very humble and down
to earth).  As it has 
> >been said before before you go and denounce Nomad
once again do some 
> >checking on the facts before you jump on the
bandwagon.
> >
> >
> >Raf
> 
> 
> |||| d j . s u t e k h 
> |||| b e l i e f - s y s t e m s  
> |||| o a k l a n d . c a . u s a
> |||| http://www.belief-systems.com
> |||| http://www.nodeone.com/static
> |||| http://oms1.berkeley.edu/KALX
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:27:03 1998
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From: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2b405191.34b14eb7@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:20:52 EST
To: brian@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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In a message dated 1/5/98 1:09:42 PM, you wrote:

>Bzzzt.  I think there's an direct correlation between the rise of
>techno/raving in the US and the presence of money-grubbing half-witted
>promoters who are *all* into it for the money, at the expense of everyone
>else.  
>
>There's only so many people Nomad will be able to fuck over before they run
>out of victims and can't throw any more parties in SF.  Unfortunately
>there's a lot of people in this area for them to fuck over before they
>quit, and also unfortunately, they're destroying up otherwise progressive
>relationships with authorities.
>
>Don't extrapolate Nomad's behavior upon the promoters in SF in general, by
>any means.
>
>	Brian

Thanks for your comments Brian.....and I agree with you that the actions of
Nomad cannot be applied to all promoters, and I think it was apparent in my
first message (dated 01.04.97) that I was being specific to Nomad and others
of their ilk....not responsible promoters. I have had the pleasure of dealing
with many of the latter, and props to them.  They are out there, just as
surely as there are irresponsible promotors like Nomad. ***I still stand by my
statement at the end of my first communique:  I will immediately notify this
list if/when Nomad makes good on their debt.***

--vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:28:42 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:28:00 EST
To: raf_one@hotmail.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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In a message dated 1/5/98 1:27:58 PM, you wrote:

> happen to have not only DJ'd but also worked the Orgin Party in 
>advance. As far as I know, everyone got paid-there was a suspicion 
>raised about the promoters because alot of the djs had to wait awhile 
>before getting paid altho this sucks (I was waiting too) I do happen to 
>know that they were dealing with the police so that the party did not 
>get shut down (New Year's it seems permits don't mean shit anywhere). 
>Also this location has served as a back-up many a time and has one time 
>or another saved many a party from not happening. There are a lot of 
>things that happen behind the scenes in order for a party to happen. Not 
>just setting up but a lot of other things beyond any single individual's 
>control. I think the Orgin new year's went pretty damn well. any CYFUNK 
>3 rocked it!(as well as being very humble and down to earth).  As it has 
>been said before before you go and denounce Nomad once again do some 
>checking on the facts before you jump on the bandwagon.
>
>
>Raf

Thanks for your comments Raf and I am VERY happy you got paid. But the facts
stand for themselves: I was there as well and Cyfunk3 (who i agree rocked
HARD) was paid with a rubber check, Viewmaster was paid with a rubber check,
as well as others. Plain and simple.

Peace

vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:58:31 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: What is going on in the scene?
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I have seen the Threads on several posts about The
sketchyness of promoters in the scene and especially
this past holiday and it is just a shame. I heard
from several reliable sources that Tom and Stacy did
not pay any of the DJ's at all They say they lost
money?? Now maybe some one can talk to Mohan or
Hector of FTT cause I know they are good friends with
Dan and I know Dan played maybe someone can confirm
this? I don't understand how you can "Lose money"
when your party is packed to the Rim at $20-$30 I am
not sure what the price of Admin: was? but with
2,000-2,500 people at even $20 a pop $40,000-$50,000
Now there is no way you can say you did not break
even making that kind of $$ when you have the lease
on a space. I have seen budgets costing 50-80K but
not when the person has the lease on the venue in
most cases that is a good portion of the budget the
venue. So I think that is very sketchy and as far as
Bagok tribe and the whole Treasure Island thing they
supposedly lost $$ on that as well. A Friend of mine
Dave had just about all of his black lights
stolen/Missing from that party and they were like
"yea we lost money" like no big deal but when my
buddy was like well im missin $2,500 worth of lights
they were like we can't afford to pay for those. That
is just wrong!!! So now my buddy may not be able to
do to many big events cause he does not have the
lighting for them as a result of irresponsible
people. It just makes me upset how some people just
like to rape the scene and get away with it time
after time. Thankfully I have not worked to closely
with people like that or have never had that really
happen to me. I recall when I played a party in Santa
Rosa for what now is a pretty good friend and he lost
a lot of money on his party and he still payed me and
micron after we both refused to get paid cause we
felt bad his party did not go off. And he told me "No
take the money it was in the budget" and I was blown
away by that. Most promoters would try to shuck and
jive with you and stuff but this kid was on the
money. There is a key thing here "In the budget" you
have to plan for things and not bank on shit.

ADVICE.. for would be promoters and some of you old
skewlers.

I have done several small parties of my own and
continue to do so. One thing you have to keep in mind
is you have to set aside several grand and say hey I
am going to lose this money it is gone history etc..
You have to have $$ before you can do a party you
can't bank on a crowd, or names or anything you have
to have the money to start with. Most persons don't
they bank on stuff. Over budget your party for those
last minute expenses and trust me there will be some
if not many unexpected expenses. If you lose, break
or screw something up take responsibility for it. For
instance I lost about $300 worth of my buddys lights
the one that may be getting screwed for the lost
lights. And you better believe that I payed out of my
own pocket for the missing lights I did not give him
some bull shit story or anything. You have to be
stand up person for people to respect you.. Sorry I
am rambling the point is no one is perfect but if you
are going to do parties you have to take some
responsiblity for your shit!! and have plenty of $$
to lose and plenty of tylenol cause doing parties is
very stressfull but fun :-)

Peace,
Macadio  


===









From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 21:59:52 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <18f3f66f.34b155a2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:50:24 EST
To: kneves@gwa.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Nomad: Origin
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In a message dated 1/5/98 11:06:39 AM, you wrote:

<<Did anyone happen to notice the fact that Mark Farina did 
not play the 5 hour set as promised? Was anyone bothered by that? I 
know I was. I think it was more like a two hour set that ended with 
the record constantly skipping and stopping.>>

YES !!!  I noticed a lot of things weren't "exactly as originally
promised".....
and it bothers me quite a bit .  On the other hand, the party didn't get 
busted and I personally didn't witness any violence & was with "good-
vibe" peeps....so perhaps that helped to neutralize my annoying feelings 
of being CHEATED....

Toontown put this party to shame...
luv n hugs,
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:00:53 1998
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 14:00:43 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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I am proud to anounce the creation of my 
new production company and our first party

Its free so if you want to spin or be a part of it
you dont get no money.

heres the plan

We all get together and complain about this or that greedy
producer, thats where i stole ...i mean made the name space nomads.

Hopefully we will get some "good dj's" to spin and mix
in live voice samples of our complaining.

any prophets made at this party will be donated to charitys
to prophesy about our future and create a new religion
based on raving.

Free fruit and water

L.U.C.E    F.P.L E.  P.D.S.F 
note that these letters dont stand for anything...they just added to
make me seem like im cool cause im in on the secrets of the ug.

We are doing a few things differently like if are "special"
and want to be on the guest list send me your name and some
money. Since you believe you are special you probably
are a producer or someone that has lots of money...most
special people have money right...so you can be special
at my party by helping me pay for it.

415 767-7626 to get the time and more info

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:07:22 1998
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From: "Neves, Kathleen" <kneves@gwa.com>
To: 'sfraves' <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: FW: What is going on in the scene?
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:11:04 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From:	Neves, Kathleen
Sent:	Monday, January 05, 1998 2:10 PM
To:	'macadio'
Subject:	RE: What is going on in the scene?

A friend of mine threw a kick ass party in Seattle a couple of years 
ago. He spent way over his budget and only 300 people showed up. But 
the vibe was true and strong. That was a priceless. It was worth the 
debt to go through an experience like that. That is when you step back 
and say you are truly doing it for the scene and all of its members. 
That is what this scene began as and that is just the way it should 
be.

-----Original Message-----
From:	macadio [SMTP:macadio6@rocketmail.com]
Sent:	Monday, January 05, 1998 1:56 PM
To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject:	What is going on in the scene?


I have seen the Threads on several posts about The
sketchyness of promoters in the scene and especially
this past holiday and it is just a shame. I heard
from several reliable sources that Tom and Stacy did
not pay any of the DJ's at all They say they lost
money?? Now maybe some one can talk to Mohan or
Hector of FTT cause I know they are good friends with
Dan and I know Dan played maybe someone can confirm
this? I don't understand how you can "Lose money"
when your party is packed to the Rim at $20-$30 I am
not sure what the price of Admin: was? but with
2,000-2,500 people at even $20 a pop $40,000-$50,000
Now there is no way you can say you did not break
even making that kind of $$ when you have the lease
on a space. I have seen budgets costing 50-80K but
not when the person has the lease on the venue in
most cases that is a good portion of the budget the
venue. So I think that is very sketchy and as far as
Bagok tribe and the whole Treasure Island thing they
supposedly lost $$ on that as well. A Friend of mine
Dave had just about all of his black lights
stolen/Missing from that party and they were like
"yea we lost money" like no big deal but when my
buddy was like well im missin $2,500 worth of lights
they were like we can't afford to pay for those. That
is just wrong!!! So now my buddy may not be able to
do to many big events cause he does not have the
lighting for them as a result of irresponsible
people. It just makes me upset how some people just
like to rape the scene and get away with it time
after time. Thankfully I have not worked to closely
with people like that or have never had that really
happen to me. I recall when I played a party in Santa
Rosa for what now is a pretty good friend and he lost
a lot of money on his party and he still payed me and
micron after we both refused to get paid cause we
felt bad his party did not go off. And he told me "No
take the money it was in the budget" and I was blown
away by that. Most promoters would try to shuck and
jive with you and stuff but this kid was on the
money. There is a key thing here "In the budget" you
have to plan for things and not bank on shit.

ADVICE.. for would be promoters and some of you old
skewlers.

I have done several small parties of my own and
continue to do so. One thing you have to keep in mind
is you have to set aside several grand and say hey I
am going to lose this money it is gone history etc..
You have to have $$ before you can do a party you
can't bank on a crowd, or names or anything you have
to have the money to start with. Most persons don't
they bank on stuff. Over budget your party for those
last minute expenses and trust me there will be some
if not many unexpected expenses. If you lose, break
or screw something up take responsibility for it. For
instance I lost about $300 worth of my buddys lights
the one that may be getting screwed for the lost
lights. And you better believe that I payed out of my
own pocket for the missing lights I did not give him
some bull shit story or anything. You have to be
stand up person for people to respect you.. Sorry I
am rambling the point is no one is perfect but if you
are going to do parties you have to take some
responsiblity for your shit!! and have plenty of $$
to lose and plenty of tylenol cause doing parties is
very stressfull but fun :-)

Peace,
Macadio


===










From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:10:42 1998
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Subject: NRR: loftmates (again...)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 14:21:10 -0700
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it's been a while since i posted this. i'm still looking for a live work 
loft situtation in sf. i'm looking to pay between 600 - 1000 depending on 
the space etc. i would like to live with other raver-artist-netheads if 
possible. i have a sound system, dj and would like to have loftmates that 
are into the music among other things. i'm looking at a couple lofts 
right now, but would need to share, so if anyone else is interested in 
going in on them, let me know. also if you have a loft space and are 
looking for a room mate, of course that's even easier.
seamus.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:16:24 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:13:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Capriles <micron1@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, mira@wellsfargo.com
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i don't think that this is just a rumor.  But i could be wrong.  I
hear gateway still hasn't been paid for their sound and that several
of the dj's remain un-paid.  Do tom or stacy want to comment on this????

--dan





---Digital Devil <raf_one@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> I happen to have not only DJ'd but also worked the Orgin Party in 
> advance. As far as I know, everyone got paid-there was a suspicion 
> raised about the promoters because alot of the djs had to wait awhile 
> before getting paid altho this sucks (I was waiting too) I do happen
to 
> know that they were dealing with the police so that the party did not 
> get shut down (New Year's it seems permits don't mean shit anywhere). 
> Also this location has served as a back-up many a time and has one
time 
> or another saved many a party from not happening. There are a lot of 
> things that happen behind the scenes in order for a party to happen.
Not 
> just setting up but a lot of other things beyond any single
individual's 
> control. I think the Orgin new year's went pretty damn well. any
CYFUNK 
> 3 rocked it!(as well as being very humble and down to earth).  As it
has 
> been said before before you go and denounce Nomad once again do some 
> checking on the facts before you jump on the bandwagon.
> 
> 
> Raf
> 
> >
> >
> >just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the
space
> >where they held the party is owned by the promoters..
> .they did much more
> >than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see
that a
> >sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
> >play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm
not
> >gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
> >believe that they can retain their credibility...
> >
> >an example of where their intentions are....in their
pockets...>smirk<
> >
> >
> >
> >miragirl
> >
> 
> >> 
> >> >Just to let you know,
> >> >alot of times parties don't break even
> >> >and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment
> >> providers.
> >> >I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass
playing
> >> >emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
> >> >Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
> >> >There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters
CAN
> >> and
> >> >WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks
dick,
> >> yeah,
> >> >but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they
just
> >> enjoy
> >> >playing out.
> >> >Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
> >> 
> >> thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the
difficulties 
> in
> >> promoting large events, having done so many times in the past.
Please
> >> understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the
> >> presence of a
> >> contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and
technicians is
> >> one
> >> reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this
> >> country. To
> >> put on a show without being able to cover your expenses up front is
> >> poor
> >> business and passes the financial responsibility of a successful
show
> >> onto
> >> those that were hired to perform and tech. This is WRONG. It takes
> >> lots of
> >> money to put on shows like this and to pretend that it does not is
> >> also WRONG.
> >> 
> >> Peace, and thanks for your response
> >> 
> >> --vortexbrad
> >
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:19:14 1998
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Subject: Re: growing, selling, and delivery
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At 06:53 PM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>so...are you saying let's pretend there was a tablet form rather than
>smoking it/baking in brownie that could be more easily regulated?
****
so... there *isn't* a pill form *at all?*

i was my understanding there was... and I didn't realize it was so useless.
did i miss something? it's not uncommon.

peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:25:29 1998
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I know that there is a pill form of synthesized THC, but it is hard to
find and very potent and Very illegal, as far as I know. The last time I
heard of someone taking it was a couple of years ago, and even then it was
rare.

sat kriya



> At 06:53 PM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >so...are you saying let's pretend there was a tablet form rather than
> >smoking it/baking in brownie that could be more easily regulated?
> ****
> so... there *isn't* a pill form *at all?*
> 
> i was my understanding there was... and I didn't realize it was so useless.
> did i miss something? it's not uncommon.
> 
> peace,
> -SolR
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:26:43 1998
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Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
To: jenniw@pacbell.net (jen ya good missy nub nubbin)
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I was using party interchangeably w/ rave.

> That depends on whether you are throwing a party or a
> rave/event/concert.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:31:21 1998
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From: Dan Capriles <micron1@rocketmail.com>
Subject: more on the nomad thread...
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i too have thrown a party and lost money.  We stayed pretty close to
our budget, but didn't promote hard enough and ended up losing a lot
of money.   I personally lost a $1000 (which is a lot of $ to me) and
still paid EVERYONE!!!  there is NO excuse for not paying people. 
They held up their end of the deal and now as a promoter it is your
RESPONSIBILTY to hold up your end.

I would hate to see some good talent ignore SF because the promoters
around here have such a bad rep.

=)
dan


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:37:58 1998
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ok then what is going on tonight- I been alseep since
new years day and its time I went out left I suffer
from bedsores.

PJLAZy







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:40:26 1998
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At 06:53 PM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>so...are you saying let's pretend there was a tablet form rather than
>smoking it/baking in brownie that could be more easily regulated?
****
so... there *isn't* a pill form *at all?*

i was my understanding there was... and I didn't realize it was so
useless.
did i miss something? it's not uncommon.
 -==-=-=-=-

Originally I thought you were referring to Marinol which is evil
man-made extract that has nasty side effects and costs way to much to be
considered medicina; you can regulate it but those to issues alone it's
not worth it.,

a pill form from mother nature would come under much scrutiny for
quality control as the variety of herb is immense from bogus skunk to
"I'm the Queen of curtains & all". Most folks IMO would be quite
skeptical of what qualty a pill would be and that would really be from
the seller/providor back to the grower & producer.

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:45:15 1998
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At 11:25 AM 1/3/98 -0800, you wrote:
>On a related note...how will the new smoking laws effect raves?
>It is now illegal to smoke indoors...will this be enforced at raves?
>Will the producers and police be enforcing or ignoring this law?
*****
NRR - was at a local dance club, and this guy lit up... went out onto the
dancefloor, and was swooped up and escorted out by security.

no lieniency whatsoever... they weren't nice about it one bit.

peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:46:38 1998
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In a message dated 1/5/98 3:19:16 PM, you wrote:

<< I hear gateway still hasn't been paid for their sound and that several
of the dj's remain un-paid.  Do tom or stacy want to comment on this????>>

I don't think the bloodsucking two-timing wanna-be PLURry cheap-*sses
have the couth to overcome their ignorance & justify *any* of their
actions with a response to the very ravers who feed their pockets and 
make their parties go off....wonder what they'd do if nobody showed 
up at their next ripoff event?!?  

So sad that some individuals contribute such a bad vibe to such a beautiful
undiscriminating and forgiving scene...

Just shows that it's really about being *together*....with friends, *real*
people,
and peeps who are in it for the music and community..

What comes around gets around so simple thermodynamics tells us that each
action merits an equal and opposite response...everyone gets theirs in the
end.

natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:48:13 1998
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i too have thrown a party and lost money.  We stayed pretty close to
our budget, but didn't promote hard enough and ended up losing a lot
of money.   I personally lost a $1000 (which is a lot of $ to me) and
still paid EVERYONE!!!  there is NO excuse for not paying people.
They held up their end of the deal and now as a promoter it is your
RESPONSIBILTY to hold up your end.

I would hate to see some good talent ignore SF because the promoters
around here have such a bad rep.

=)
dan
 -==-=-=-=-=-=-

I will 2nd that emotion, Ive thrown quite a few events and learned from
each one how to do better but even the ones where I lost money I paid or
made barter arrangements with EVERYONE so that my name would still be
worth something.

Bad news travels farther (studies will tell you) than good news; it's
somewhat human nature.

IMO you agree ahead of time and can say if things suck I'll still pay
$___ no matter what & $___ if we do well

obviously if the promoter or whoever is a blood sucking scum they won't
be honest as a general rule (why associate with them anyway)

sister kitty




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 22:55:28 1998
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Hey, this debate is fascinating, and now I have a question.

The discussion from last week has focused my thoughts on the terminally
ill, homebound patient relying upon marijuana for pain relief.  My
question is: Does all pot medicate the same?  I am betting the answer is
"no."  And I bet Perone and his Compadres' have taken the "sweetest
buds" and reserved them for the very ill?  (Or is qualaty not a problem
anymore?)

Diana Greer
got some in the freezer from '96

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 23:54:56 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:54:52 -0800 (PST)
From: mancia marco a <mancima@laney.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Trance & Jungle Factory once again (fwd)
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BSP









orb...............magick...................Media Assessiiiiiinnnozzzzzzzz..................Computer TERRA~Ist..................speakEr............................................23......................out



Marco Mancia
orbIenT f6, Enc.

**************************
sound experimentor

tripologist

**************************

marco@ina.com
mancima@earth.laney.edu
Vibepool@aol.com
Marco 23@sfbayguardian.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:54:56 -0800 (PST)
From: mancia marco a <mancima@laney.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Trance & Jungle Factory once again

Having another party folks,


      		   January 17, 1998


dJ's to be annoucned, $10, STRICTLY!!!!!!!!!! 200 PRE-SALE TICKETS ONLY at
the Trance & Jungle Factory.............

stay tuned..........




((((((((((((((((TranceFactory heads)))))))))))))))))))))









orb...............magick...................Media Assessiiiiiinnnozzzzzzzz..................Computer TERRA~Ist..................speakEr............................................23......................out



Marco Mancia
orbIenT f6, Enc.

**************************
sound experimentor

tripologist

**************************

marco@ina.com
mancima@earth.laney.edu
Vibepool@aol.com
Marco 23@sfbayguardian.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 05 23:57:41 1998
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Subject: Re: growing, selling, and delivery
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Hey, this debate is fascinating, and now I have a question.

The discussion from last week has focused my thoughts on the terminally
ill, homebound patient relying upon marijuana for pain relief.  My
question is: Does all pot medicate the same?  I am betting the answer is
"no."  And I bet Perone and his Compadres' have taken the "sweetest
buds" and reserved them for the very ill?  (Or is qualaty not a problem
anymore?)

Diana Greer
got some in the freezer from '96
 -==-=-=-=-=-

because of the illegality the studies that could show this info haven't
been done (but some are begining)

with folks who are in pain the first issue is to just deal with the pain
first -- whatever works

then long term solutions with questions like respitory illness, budget,
is swallowing difficult, general health, etc to find a decent solution

a lot of folks can't eat much or smoke so they have an eensir weensie
brownie

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 00:16:05 1998
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From: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: density + tonite + dj shadow = ?
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:14:35 -0800
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just heard from a friend that a friend got fliered for justice league /
density tonite... i don't want to be starting a rumor here, but he said
dj shadow was on the bill...

anyone out there have true-life details...?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 00:18:09 1998
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Subject: Origin & Wayne
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OMIGOD!!!!!!
I can't believe it--all these flames re: Nomad and not ONE post from Wayne
Corriera! 
Ladies and Gentleman, I am stunned.
--Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 00:27:41 1998
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Yeah, Monty, I think we caught Wayne sleepin' at the keyboard....

Diana

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 00:57:20 1998
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From: "information" <info@fslc.com>
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Subject: MY RANT OVER  RAVES!  (long)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:54:02 -0800
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What IS the deal with this list!
 
Over the last 3 years whenever the NOMAD people have thrown a party people
on this list slam them.  I've also heard several disparaging comments in
relation to The  Space Children & Bagcock Tribe crews as well.  I have used
the privileged information acquired as a member of this list to sort out
good parties from bad.  It seems only logical to me that others do the same
yet obviously they do not.

In all my years of promoting I have never reneged on a promised financial
obligation. I'm not trying to sound like a damned saint it's just that I
conduct myself reciprocally in both my business and personal life.  I don't
write bad checks or procure goods on credit that I have no intention of
repaying the debt.  I can remember borrowing upwards of 10 ATM cards and
running back and forth several times in order to secure the proper funds to
pay entertainment when a particular party didn't pan out attendance-wise 3
years back.  To not pay the entertainment just wasn't an option and I'm
personally surprised to learn that in some cases it is.  A note to
scheduled talent, visual crews, etc.:  If you're dealing with a sketchy
party crew ask for deposits up front and reduce you relative risk exposure.
It's standard for out of town talent. (That said, I fear that we don't have
the whole story on the ORIGIN crew so I'll reserve judgement for later. 
They seem to tune in to this list after every party and always respond to
this list sooner or later).

It's really very easy to throw a successful party.  You don't need to be
rocket scientist to figure out the formula.  Yes, there is also sufficient
risk involved but in my opinion the inherent risk is adequately diminished
by the amazing return offered on your investment. The question ends up
being WHO WANTS TO.  I made a choice 2 years ago to not participate in what
could be considered actual "Rave" promoting any longer.  Throwing parties
for circle dancing teens and dangerous thugs just wasn't the reason that I
became involved in "The Scene" in the first place.  Those factors in
conjunction with the city of SF's attitude toward parties, the potential
for injury to paying patrons and the evil rise in speed consumption in the
scene made the prospect of promoting in that arena particularly undesirable
to me. In fact, what I came to dislike in parties has now seemingly become
the norm.  As of late, I rarely venture out to those types of events except
to support old friends attempts as they had supported me.  

If you don't want crap in your scene don't support it.  The "TOON TOWN was
cancelled so I regretfully went to ORIGIN and it sucked," attitude just
perpetuates more crap.  IMO there are too many promoters throwing too many
terrible parties.  Believe me, less parties will mean better parties.  The
scene needs some sorting out.  

But don't just blame the promoters.  This is a DJ driven medium in which
we're participating. Boy, wouldn't it be something if Big DJ A actually
showed up more than 5 minutes before their set and/or actually stuck around
afterwards to enjoy the party (assuming that he actually shows up).  You
know I can remember when big DJA actually danced and smiled during his set.
 Now he just stares down at tables, depressing.  You know, I do remember
The TOON TOWNS of yore and I remember the way that I found out about that
party initially was from a DJ scheduled to spin at it.  He had a stack of
flyers in his pocket.  You know, I can't remember the last time that I had
a one of the bigger DJs in this city give me a flyer for an upcoming gig
that he wasn't financially involved in.    

You know I saw several DJs double, even triple booked on New Year's Eve.
I'd like to think that their motive was to spread the good word of their
art to all music lovers around the bay, but I know better.  Double and
triple booking has become the norm and not just on New Year's Eve.  As a
promoter I've been the ripped off first stop on a three party tour and the
exhausted last stop at the end of a long night.  Anyway you shape it up the
audience gets ripped off and it shouldn't be tolerated.  Yes, DJs deserve
to get paid fairly but a New Year's Eve journey that nets $2,000/stop and
makes 3 stops is equally as bad as the promoter who charges too much for
admission.  In fact can't you see that one yields the other?  It's very
interesting to me that fans of pro sports hate the owners for rising prices
but admire the player who makes millions/year. Make the correlation people.


The simple fact of the matter is that when you pay admission at a door that
isn't a negotiable donation you've left the realm of the underground and
chosen to participate in a form of commerce known as "The Rave Party.  If
you don't get the DJs you expected or the performances as scheduled ask
someone why?  If the soup's got a fly in it you send it back.  If the new
suit falls apart you return it!  While there are some good parties that
still go off in roving spaces I've noticed that most of the crews that had
any credence in the first place have ventured into clubs (FTT, Pure Space,
Come-Unity, Wicked, Sugar Shack, ToonTown-Loveworks, Stompy, etc.) I'm not
sure if they got older or just grew tired of the hassle but you can bet
that you'll get what's promised when you go to one their parties.   I wish
that this was the standard for our medium that we call "The Rave Party"
maybe 1998 should be the year that we make it that so.

Thanks for the space.  It's been a while since I've contributed and I'm
thankful for your time and consideration.

- 'Ol DJ & Promoter Guy


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 01:00:48 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:56:08 EST
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Subject: Michael Dog review (long-ish)
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Happy 98!
With last years NYE "Bust-O-Rama" up and down the state (permits of no) still
clear in my head (one of the few things that is - ha ha) - I stayed in all
week and finally couldnt stand it any longer so I ventured down to Spundae
with low expectations - just wanted to hear some music and get a little
exercise.

What a pleasant surprise. IMHO it was the best (read:most like the old
Spundae) since the move to VSF (a location less than optimal for a rave-open
till 5:30AM Monday type club - excepting the open air terrace of course)

I'm not sure wether it was the slight change in configuration of the place
(front room decks moved agains north wall, more bench and movie seats added to
other walls-opens up the room so you don't have to choose your focus - DJ vs.
rest of room, front door, etc) - the main room also was minus the restaurant
style booths on the wall near the bathrooms-they instead had some bench type
seating I think. This adds a lot of room to that walkway and allows more
people to sit. Aslo you don't feel as if you're invading someones privacy if
you plop down next to 2 strangers talking, whereas the booth seats made
joining strangers somewhat intimidating at times, akward or whatever. Hope
they do the same to the other side.

A smoking area has been created on the roof, seemed to be covered tent -I'm
not a smoker so I didn't get a close look.

The crowd was actually larger than I expected for the tail end of holidays.
But there were definately less people than recently - which wes GOOD! Lots of
room to dance, sit etc. And those that were there obviously really wanted to
be and it showed. Great to see lots of old familiar faces from Spundaes in
years past 
**   :)    *** as well as lots of raver types and assorted others to keep
things interesting.  More dancing than standing around starig - like old
times.

Of course the MUSIC must have contributed a lot.... I only saw in the front
room the end of David Michael's set (great as always) - and a real get up and
dance - loads of variety well mixed set from J-Rock (thanks for Size 9s I'm
Ready!). Lots of new (to me anyway) tracks/sounds - very cool!

Main room had Carlos which unfortunatley I missed this time, but others
praised-
Finally, Michael Dog from the UK, well known for trance trance trance (which
is OK but sometimes I can't get into as much). Once again there was a lot of
variety, although I was happy it was all pretty fast, not too fast but perfect
to carry tired bodies into Mon AM. "Access" still gets the floor going.

I hope this wasn;t a fluke and we can see more of the DV8 style Spundae soon
(rainy winter when everyone else stays home?) - I'd almost given up. Much
better than any New Years party could have been (for me anyway)    :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 01:21:58 1998
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Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 17:35:26 -0800
From: Doreen <costad@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
To: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Message-id: <32D056DE.5C56@sonoma.edu>
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> No, but it does make you sound lame. And if you were so unconcerned with the
> vibe, then why say this:

cuz she's demonstrating HOW to create a GOOD vibe for all the people 
who proclaimed that 'the vibe sucked'. ;P  it's just not wise these 
days to go a party or a RAVE (note that i distinguish a difference 
between the two) and expect the vibe to MOVE you.  sometimes you gotta 
do it your damn self.  in other words, not giving a shit can create 
this euphoric vibe you want.  the party is what YOU make of it.
  
doreen

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 01:33:16 1998
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 15:40:26 -0800
To: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Megan <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: Re: BSP space nomads
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Hey ff~ 

i need an address...
	... so i know where to send my $$$ to be $pecial.

;)

At 02:00 PM 1/5/98 -0800, fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>I am proud to anounce the creation of my 
>new production company and our first party
>
>Its free so if you want to spin or be a part of it
>you dont get no money.
>
>heres the plan
>
>We all get together and complain about this or that greedy
>producer, thats where i stole ...i mean made the name space nomads.
>
>Hopefully we will get some "good dj's" to spin and mix
>in live voice samples of our complaining.
>
>any prophets made at this party will be donated to charitys
>to prophesy about our future and create a new religion
>based on raving.
>
>Free fruit and water
>
>L.U.C.E    F.P.L E.  P.D.S.F 
>note that these letters dont stand for anything...they just added to
>make me seem like im cool cause im in on the secrets of the ug.
>
>We are doing a few things differently like if are "special"
>and want to be on the guest list send me your name and some
>money. Since you believe you are special you probably
>are a producer or someone that has lots of money...most
>special people have money right...so you can be special
>at my party by helping me pay for it.
>
>415 767-7626 to get the time and more info
>
>	><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>		foolish fish
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 01:48:58 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: question re: the vibe?
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at parties and/or raves, if the music is good and you got a little space to
dance, is that enough to give you a good vibe?...I mean we've all been to
locations that were a bit cramped, but say the music was good, not phenomenal
on every track but really good...would that be a good vibe?...all I'm reading
on the recent posts is that it sucked or the vibe was bad, or the promoters
sucked...WHAT SUCKED?...'cause if it was the music, then that's what I'm
concerned about first and foremost...make the party good for you, I think
someone else said that earlier...it all starts with the music and if that truly
sucks, then that's when you're screwed...so I wouldn't go to that promoter's
party anymore...simple...there are more parties and/or raves to attend...

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 02:16:11 1998
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:10:54
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I have a 4 channel Gemini mixer for sale with 8 second sampler.  Anyone
interested?  It's $100...e-mail me for details


 ______  ___        _____ _____ ______                   
 ___   |/  /______ ___  /___  /____  /_ _____ ___      __
 __  /|_/ / _  __ `/_  __/_  __/__  __ \_  _ \__ | /| / /
 _  /  / /  / /_/ / / /_  / /_  _  / / //  __/__ |/ |/ / 
 /_/  /_/   \__,_/  \__/  \__/  /_/ /_/ \___/ ____/|__/  
                                                         
 
 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 02:29:24 1998
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Tekno313 wrote:

> OMIGOD!!!!!!
> I can't believe it--all these flames re: Nomad and not ONE post from
> Wayne
> Corriera!
> Ladies and Gentleman, I am stunned.
> --Monty

Wayne,
oh please please please post something eloquent and spiteful, so that
the sfravers who thirst so desperately for your wisdom and guidance may
benefit from your knowledge....

katie 'i worship the ground wayne walks on' z




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 02:57:16 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:35:28 EST
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In a message dated 98-01-05 20:06:23 EST, you write:

<< If you don't want crap in your scene don't support it.  The "TOON TOWN was
 cancelled so I regretfully went to ORIGIN and it sucked," attitude just
 perpetuates more crap.  IMO there are too many promoters throwing too many
 terrible parties.  Believe me, less parties will mean better parties.  The
 scene needs some sorting out.   >>

    I'm not a party every weekend type of person, but I do definately agree
with this.  Everything is overwhelming right now and is just blowing up in our
faces.  ARe we doing anything about this?? We're so desperate to have a good
time we give up and go to whatever rave we can find.  I don't get to go that
often, so I only pick the parties I really want to go to.  Maybe that's why I
have a good time.  Or maybe it's just that I have a positive outlook on the
whole scene.  OR maybe everyone's so jaded and drugged and sick of it all that
they just don't care about changing things for the better.  I'm not going to
preach.. I'm not exactly the oldest or wisest person on the list.  But maybe
that means I have the more hopeful outlook.  All I know is when I'm older and
I can get my shit together I'm going to throw the type of party I want to be
at.  ANd it's going to be as friggin cheap to get in as it can possibly be and
everyone is going to have the time of their life even if I have to personally
go around cheering them all up.  I know there's a ton of you out there that
want to throw a party like that.  You all have this *perfect rave* in your
heads.  So get together... if you all pool your money you can do it.  It
doesn't even have to cost that much.  A free party or something.  I don't even
know what to say anymore.  It's all negative energy and people getting screwed
over.  And a lot of good points have been made in the argument, but it's time
to put our money where our blowpops are.   After all.. the scene is what you
make it.

          hugs n'stuff.
           'trice the tekno diva

 "We should make liquid E that you can absorb through your skin.  Then we
could go around squirting people with it at raves, and they'd love everyone
without ever knowing why."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 03:00:23 1998
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From: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Subject: what is vibe?
To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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what is vibe?  either it's there or it's not.  you feel it or you
don't.  it's hard to explain.


vibe is free glow-in-the-dark oranges...
vibe is stuffed animals making creepy passes at you... 
vibe is every individual on the dance floor bonding like atoms into
one giant mind-altering molecule...
vibe is people tagging the wall with jello...
vibe is when the 303 filter-sweep knob rotates
threethousandninehundredandsixtyninedegrees...
vibe is pouring the sand out of your shoes between sets, and it's a
warehouse party...
vibe is when people you never meet remember your name...
vibe is when the the voice mail directions include instructions for
building your own spacecraft...
vibe is when you hug someone at midnight, and when you open your eyes
and let go you're the last two people there...
vibe is leaving after dawn, only to remember you're parked on the
other side of the country...


-messiah



---Steven_Allas <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu> wrote:
>
> 
> at parties and/or raves, if the music is good and you got a little
space to
> dance, is that enough to give you a good vibe?...I mean we've all
been to
> locations that were a bit cramped, but say the music was good, not
phenomenal
> on every track but really good...would that be a good vibe?




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 03:01:19 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <31fc7d98.34b19aed@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:46:02 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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*Ahem*
      WHat this list needs is a pointless thread to get our minds off
political issues in the scene.  Something that will take up tons of bandwidth
and be so irrelevant that no one can possibly flame it.  So.. here is my
futile attempt to brainwash you all from these negative energies surrounding
us and our parties.

        WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is the
coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or elsewhere?

   Mine would be:
*My Nosy bear (orange and blue bear with a basket ball hoop in his nose, so
when you squeeze his tummy the ball goes through the hoop)
*Frank (a little sesame street honker guy)
*A plastic camera with colorful knobs and a flashing red light on the front
that played house music when you pressed it
*Eyedrops that make your eyes glow in the dark

          Now you all will spend your days mindlessly replying to this letter.
GO!

           hugs n'stuff,
           'trice the i have too much time on my hands tekno diva

"Grow up.. not old"

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 03:12:08 1998
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TeKnODiVa wrote:

> 
>         WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is the
> coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or elsewhere?


Have to think about this for a while but in the mean time,
one thing i really thought was funny was when we collected
roaches all week and then dipped them in glow in the dark paint
and then dumped hundreds of them on the dance floor at a 
trance party. 

note* by roaches im refering to the bugs not the smoked ones.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 03:25:11 1998
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From: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:10:40 EST
To: micron1@rocketmail.com, wonderworks@wonderwrks.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  more on the nomad thread...
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In a message dated 1/5/98 3:32:47 PM, you wrote:

>i too have thrown a party and lost money.  We stayed pretty close to
>our budget, but didn't promote hard enough and ended up losing a lot
>of money.   I personally lost a $1000 (which is a lot of $ to me) and
>still paid EVERYONE!!!  there is NO excuse for not paying people. 
>They held up their end of the deal and now as a promoter it is your
>RESPONSIBILTY to hold up your end.
>
>I would hate to see some good talent ignore SF because the promoters
>around here have such a bad rep.
>
>=)
>dan


thanks for your comments dan. I began this thread yesterday, and so far i have
recieved pretty much nothing but support and confirmation....I appreciate
everyone who is standing by the responsibility of paying the poeple you hire
to make a great scene possible. Many people have yet to be paid for working at
Origin, and many people are out a great deal of money. I still remain hopeful
that Nomad will make good on their obligations...cross your fingers for us

peace

vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 03:30:16 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:32:30 -0800
To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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Dear Rave Friends,

Lara shared (in part):

>Am I the only one who didn't care about the vibe @ Toon Town?
>I mean... I went to dance.. I went to listen to bombass jungle..
>I didn't go to worry about the people around me. Does this make me a *bad*
>raver? Just curious anyway.

        I must say I'm curious too... particularly why someone would have
"vibe" as part of her email address, yet apparently believe the vibe at a
party makes no difference!

        I'm not saying your attitude is "bad," Lara, I just find it very
hard to relate to.  It's hard for me to understand how someone could really
dig the rave scene but not care about the vibe, because for me rave and
vibe are synonomous.  I don't care if the music is the best I've ever heard
-- with vibe, it's a rave; without vibe, it's just a party with great dance
music.

        If vibe doesn't matter to you, would you be just as happy cruising
up and down the boulevard with a bunch of cool jock/cheerleader types as
you would be at a party, as long as you had a terrific car stereo and your
favorite jungle mix tapes?

        Might you also say it doesn't matter who you're eating dinner with
as long as the food is good?

May the vibe be with us,
                                       <<< Starchild >>>





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 03:36:50 1998
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Lookit - putting on parties is a big deal.  Production is difficult, and
not a lot of people are qualified to do anything with the amount of
media, constituents, logistics, and risks [legal and illegal] involved
in putting on a party.  Nomad Sucks. So What?  It doesn't make them evil
devil-raver hellhounds.  It makes them bad businesspeople - DUH

If you expect the people taking your money [or promising you pay] to be
responsible for your happiness, then you're just the sucker evil-types
are looking for.

Likewise, if you think you'll find what you're *really* looking for at a
rave - you should consider calling your parents or another adult-type
you trust so they can box your ears and illuminate for you just how
f*cking clueless you are.. You can't pay for community, and there is no
such thing as a *guaranteed* good time.

Friends and family are the two most valuable things you have.  Maybe
people should start putting on their own parties with their friends?

oh, wait a minute...

we already do.

K



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:06:16 1998
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So where is the meeting spot gonna be peoples????
Cause i'm going and i wanna see you guys....ok
byebye for now :)
peace
Philip
disordr


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:12:27 1998
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Subject: Re: ToonTown review (short) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 98 00:34:14 PST."
             <v02130501b0d6453558cc@DialupEudora> 
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 20:12:22 -0800
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> My time at Toon Town was the opposite of that which I experienced at Origin
> on NYE (which I resorted to attend due to the Toon Town postponement). I
> too came away from this event wanting to tell others that they missed out!
> Oh, and speaking of old school, where were all the "old" SF Ravers? ;)

Well, I (as an "old" SF Raver) fell asleep at 11PM on Saturday, woke up
around 4AM and said "doh" and went straight back to sleep ... then I
went skiing the next day. I don't regret it one bit, since I've partied
before, and there aren't too many days in the Sierras w/ this much
fresh powder on the slopes. In fact, I'm still up in Tahoe now...

I sure hope they throw another Toontown! I was especially disappointed
that I missed DJ Pierre, who is probably one of my most favorite DJ's
(up there w/ Derreck Carter and Mark Grant).

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:15:55 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5bf28e07.34b1ae7e@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:09:29 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: PHUNCKATECK ON THA MOVE..
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                       >>PHUNCKATECK IS MOVING TO A NEW LOCATION!!<<

CATS ALLEY has felt the need to bump us from their program...(booo!)
so we've had to relocate.

PHUNCKATECK will begin in FEBRUARY @ the new location.

It'll still be 18+...and it will remain $5 ($6 for special events)
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                                >>INFO LINE 415.331.1500  ext. 160<<
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

PHUNCKATECK...

THE LAST WORD IN FUTURE SOUNDS OF DRUM & BASS.

Stay up,
all of us @ PHUNCKATECK
PHUNKN3@AOL.COM

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:21:58 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@HYPERREAL.ORG
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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Well my favorite toys are my nipples and the new slinky that Hai so 
kindly gave to me @ Harmony, oooh, buh bye
Danny

Slinky
o     
 o   
  o o0 o0
   0  O  o

oh, and cigarettes as a dietary supplement 3 times daily (geeesh, I wish 
it were only three)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:23:07 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:00:54 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: "Wayne D. Correia" <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Nomad Interactive: Still Suck in 1998
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I didn't really feel the need to pollute the otherwise wonderful thread
you've been creating about just how much Nomad Interactive sucks -- you all
have been doing a mighty fine job yourselves, but once beckoned, I just
can't be put back into the bottle. :-)

First, let me say that I just wish that more people would have listened to
me about 1.5 years ago when I started calling those foons on the carpet for
clearcutting their way though the scene and generally sucking as much as
they do.

If you remember, there had been dark, nasty rumors about them being narcs
from approx October 1995 onward, of which just about anyone in the
underground could tell you it was so well known, none of which were
ultimately proven or disproven.

Feeling bad that "unnamed sources" in the underground were spereading these
accusations, and based a bit on Nomad's expertly delivered, "Poor me, I'm
being repressed, we love the underground." schpiel, I spent at least one
hundred hours of my time and my good reputation over the course of several
weeks to attempt to debunk that on their bahalf. BIG MISTAKE on my part --
I should have just let all that ride, as they ultimately deserved the rap
on their idiot factor alone. In retrospect, I see that was the way the
underground was attempting to rid itself of a virus, and all I did was slow
the expunging by defending them on these counts.

Hindsight is 20/20.

In the meantime, I remained in communication with them and actually helped
them with all their parties from Dec 2nd, 1995 through a party they did at
the Deli on April 6th, 1996, they succeded in bumbling their way through
these parties, largely with the help and on the backs of people who were
established and trusted in the underground like Mark Ameba (splish boat
cruise, Oct 95), Mike Clay and myself (Dec 95 -> April 96.) Those parties
made those parasites quite a bit of money, while at the same time they were
telling all the people helping "Oh dear, we didn't make any money, so we're
really sorry but there's none for you." One memory comes to bear where they
had hopelessly oversold the Deli in March or April 1996 (they were in
league with Mufid and the Arab mafia at the time.), with door receipts of
nearly $20,000, all of which was quickly squirreled away into the trunk of
their BMW and tales of high costs were quickly spread amongst the staff
(same story: no money made, thanks for your help.) One of them worked in
public relations for the tabacco industry. That should have been enough of
a heads-up where their morals were.

This was right around the same time that there was another rumor they were
helping funnel information on all other underground parties happening in
SOMA to Mufid (owns the Deli, Arab mafia, yadda yadda) and his on-payroll
SFPD cops which were busting competing parties (competing: any party not
being thrown in a space controlled by Mufid, like the Deli or Pier 66) on
their behalf, etc., etc.

You know, all the stuff that makes for a very ugly underground.

I remember having a conversation with them in conjunction with Mike Clay
just before they had a huge, out of control, shitty party at 666 Indiana
back on May 18th, 1996 that went a little something like this; "If we want
to bribe the cops to have a party, and bribe the space owner to rent to us
instead of you, we can do that, and we will do that because we have the
money, and that's just the way it is done in Chicago."

Yeah, well Fuck You.

Quite a few people in the building I lived in, just two blocks from 666
Indiana called the police on those bastards that night; we could hear the
BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOMING from over two blocks away in a residential
neighborhood.

I didn't bother calling the police. I knew it would do no good, of cource,
since all the graveyard cops from the Potero police station were all on the
take, and being well fed by the Arab home-boys that ran the 'hood. The
power of cold, hard, cash, Chicago stylee, baby.

But that's all rave folklore, isn't it. Not sure it's true, not sure it's
not. Well, use your own/best judgement, and remember, character does count.
:-)

At this time, Ethan Miller told them in very plain english on SF Raves to
get out of town, Mike Clay told them to get out of town, and I told them to
get out of town, albiet we were all slightly less polite at the time. :-)
Search the SF Raves archives for the month of May 1996 for the 411 on that
thread.

Many of you on the list were perplexed at that time. I think we just knew
too much about all their bullshit and most of it was *way* too politically
hot to actually go into detail in a public forum. I guess you just had to
trust what we were telling you via SF Raves. Most of you did, having faith
in the character of the accusers vs. those lusers, who did their business
under a black cloud, leaving a trail of mistrust and failed relationships
in their wake.

But there were a couple of you on this list were foolish enough to champion
their cause, even above the cries of those that had been fucked over by
them. I hope that now all of you have the knowledge of history and the
wisdom of experience to call a thief a thief when you see one, both in this
case and in the future.

Suprisingly, carried by the defense of the naive but equally vocal, Nomad
was fairly successful in overcoming all the rumors and the stories of the
various bullshit that they perpetrated on the underground community, and
seemed to have a sweet thing going over there at their "2nd and Jackson $2
Watering Hole", and becuase of this even I am a little perplexed as to why
they'd take the money and run after seemingly surviving all of this.

Maybe all they needed was one really good overpriced, oversold, running out
on all their bills NYE party to *really* clean up.

I feel deeply sorry for others that have been taken advantage of,
especially those that pay their rent by renting their sound systems and
DJing for fair and pre-agreed upon prices. They are the real victims here,
and I really hope that you get what's owed you. I also really hope that
Nomad gets what's 'owed' them, too.

If not, I hope those rat bastards at least do us the favor of going back to
Chicago and crawling back into whatever sewer they crawled out of.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:23:30 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:21:01 -0700
To: sf-jungle@saturn5.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: susan@langan.net
Subject: b.a.s.s. kru & eklektic breakitdown
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{SFJ: We haven't been using the list quite as often as of late, but}
I thought all of you would like to know some junglistic stuff that's coming
up soon:

JANUARY 8 * Eklektic
Dr. Decent (the RV, NYC) & Noel (Phunckateck)
with yin resident Sage
10-2 .:. sorry 21+ .:. $5
Kate O'Brien's .:. 579 Howard @ 2nd St.
415.332.5800 x24-7

JANUARY 10 * Acid Breaks 2
Jungle room featuring
Flux & Rinse (B.A.S.S. Kru)
Noel, Sage & UFO (Phunckateck)
Hak (Solid Grooves)
Moshe (Bay Area Underground)
for more info call 415.273.1474,
510.986.9227 or 408.881.0678

JANUARY 15 * Eklektic
Bombshelter DJs Z-trip & Emile (Phoenix, AZ)
hip hop flava with yin resident Star Eyes
10-2 .:. sorry 21+ .:. $5
Kate O'Brien's .:. 579 Howard @ 2nd St.
415.332.5800 x24-7

* System Check
Step 2K, B.A.S.S. Kru &
Lowerworld Productions (CO) present
for their 1st SF appearance
DJs Darren Jay & Mickey Finn with MC GQ
plus locals Flux, Rinse, Noel & Push
18+ .:. 10-4 .:. completely secure SF location
$10 limited pre-sale tix at Housewares
415.789.7690

for more jungle updates check www.langan.net/basskru/events.html

 Peace
.: Q :.

susan k.c. langan
susan@langan.net


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:30:41 1998
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To: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
From: Scott Galloway <scottg@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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>        WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is the
>coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or elsewhere?

Well...my all time favorite trip, er that is rave toy, has to be this thing
called the "String Ray"...An old old friend has it (although it's now in
Seattle - ack!)...

It was basically a string between two spinning motors that you could adjust
the speed on...and below this spinning string was a color wheel which could
be adjusted as well, in time to the spinning string.

The result of the combined two, was a constantly changing, three
dimensional barrage of color and wave patterns in the string.  Simply
amazing.  

We have spent many long hours tripping on, er playing with that thing...

Smiles,

Scott =)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:40:03 1998
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:41:54 -0800
From: Sounds Good <hernancz@sirius.com>
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Subject: Re: BSP space nomads
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Sounds Good Pro Audio(the dinky sound company that could) would like to 
imply that it has over 40 billion watts of sound system to fuel the 
Space Nomad RAVE. We might be using 2 decommissioned nuclear subs to 
power the wall of amps(hot air from which could be used to heat homes in 
Hunters Point and the Tenderloin). 

We may have invented the worlds first 18 foot(not inch) subwoofer. Using 
a Kevlar polymer in the speaker cone, we will be able to use the speaker 
as a Bouncy Cassle!!

Please bring canned foods so's our DJ's dont go home hungry and empty 
handed.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:48:20 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:48:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: HaPpY KyDs
To: Break Dancer <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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The meeting point is right in front of the decks during my set! :D :D :D :D



On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Break Dancer wrote:

> So where is the meeting spot gonna be peoples????
> Cause i'm going and i wanna see you guys....ok
> byebye for now :)
> peace
> Philip
> disordr
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 04:57:59 1998
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cc: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: BSP space nomads 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 98 20:41:54 PST."
             <34B1B612.7732@sirius.com> 
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 20:57:50 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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> We may have invented the worlds first 18 foot(not inch) subwoofer. Using 
> a Kevlar polymer in the speaker cone, we will be able to use the speaker 
> as a Bouncy Cassle!!

Yeah, but what would really be killer is a mega-huge bouncy-castle rave
with a bunch of  Meyer Sound "sound beam" speakers. 

For details, see http://www.meyersound.com/pubs/soundbeam.htm
and http://www.meyersound.com/low/sb-1.htm

PS: this one is for real.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 05:13:10 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:15:33 -0800
To: mira@wellsfargo.com
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Dear Mira,

        I appreciate your desire not to get personal by naming names.
Without sounding too mushy, it is this kind of niceness that helps make the
scene what it is!

        In the case of unscrupulous promoters however, if we aren't willing
to publicly identify them it should come as no surprise to you or anyone
else when they DO retain their credibility.  Unless you recognize from the
name of the party that it has a bad rep, how can you avoid parties thrown
by bad people if you don't know who they are?  Party names are easily
changed, after all.

        I'm not saying anyone's house should be toilet-papered, but there
should be some kind of social cost to doing business as a sleazebag --
public embarrassment and loss of image are punishments that fit the crime,
imho.

        There is a huge difference between stating an unpleasant fact just
to be unpleasant and stating an unpleasant fact in order to accomplish a
positive result, like keeping people from being burned.  Tellling the world
that a promoter constantly picks his nose, for example, is not particularly
important for anyone to know even if it happens to be true. Therefore
spreading this information falls into the category of simply being nasty
(not to mention grossing people out!)  8)

        But if you believe a promoter is ripping people off, you have
strong evidence that this is true, and the person(s) in question
can't/won't give info to the contrary, then you're doing people more of a
disservice NOT to share the information!

        Think:  If you are one who was ripped off, and it turns out the
person(s) who screwed you has/have a history of such behavior, wouldn't you
like to have known this in advance?

Keeping it real,
                                        <<< Starchild >>>


(Mira shared):

>hi lara!!....  *8)
>
>just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the space
>where they held the party is owned by the promoters...they did much more
>than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see that a
>sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
>play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm not
>gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
>believe that they can retain their credibility...
>
>an example of where their intentions are....in their pockets...>smirk<
>
>miragirl



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 05:20:29 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
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ssshhhhhh!   don't w a k e him....



>
>Yeah, Monty, I think we caught Wayne sleepin' at the keyboard....
>
>Diana
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 05:32:06 1998
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To: Scott Galloway <scottg@mindspring.com>, TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>,
  SFRaves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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I, too, have the privedge of owning this amazing toy that has given me
hundreds of fun-filled hours: )  It hypnotizes like kryptonite.  No one in
my house knows exactly where it came from, either, which makes it all the
more exciting.

Long live spinning tri-colored strings from outer space!

At 08:34 PM 1/5/98 -0800, Scott Galloway wrote:
>>        WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is the
>>coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or elsewhere?
>
>Well...my all time favorite trip, er that is rave toy, has to be this thing
>called the "String Ray"...An old old friend has it (although it's now in
>Seattle - ack!)...
>
>It was basically a string between two spinning motors that you could adjust
>the speed on...and below this spinning string was a color wheel which could
>be adjusted as well, in time to the spinning string.
>
>The result of the combined two, was a constantly changing, three
>dimensional barrage of color and wave patterns in the string.  Simply
>amazing.  
>
>We have spent many long hours tripping on, er playing with that thing...
>
>Smiles,
>
>Scott =)
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 05:48:31 1998
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From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: VENTING: A sad state of affairs
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well, this has thoroughly gotten to me.  I am really depressed about what
has happened to some very talented people who worked for Nomad.  I have to
say my life would not be the same without music and the people who make it
and spin it.  I THOUGHT that by paying to go to a rave i was showing my
appreciation for the community and the creative environment, and now it sort
of being confirmed that, once again, my money is not going where my heart is
(can I buy anything in this country with confidence in where my dollar is
going???).

As a community, we stand together, right?  But all we can do is boycott or
inform eachother about the maladies. I feel sort of disempowered.  I guess
the reason I'm not rich is because I would probably pay people for their
worth which is a lot more than what they get.  In addition, I, as a
promoter, would have an emergency
I-Really-Appreciate-You-and-I'm-Sorry-You-Got-Ripped-Off D.J. Fund.  

Wishing I could do something worthwhile

Terri


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 05:54:10 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b4719e20.34b1c6e0@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:53:32 EST
To: Tekno313@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: ToonTown review (short)
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In a message dated 98-01-05 13:06:49 EST, Tekno313@AOL.Com writes:

You say: It was nothing like Toon Town was back in the day. At
 least it wasnt like the one I remember attending on Townsend street back in
 Feb. '92....
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd:  Get over it, change happens, the scene has changed since '92, and
it will change before 2002.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You say: Talk to some of the mid-western transplants who live out here now
about how they would drive across two states in sleet, snow and blizzards just
to be at a rocking party.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd: You think that _maybe, just MAYBE_ we as Californians take for
granted the good weather and perhaps a lot of Californians are not very GOOD
at driving in the rain?  If I were a bad driver ain't no fucken way I woulda
gone out in tha rain like it was comin down Saturday.  Hell, as it was I could
barely see out the window!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 You say: The collective energy of the relatively small amount of people in
attendance
 was further diminished by the fact that there were four separate areas of
 music, three of which were(while I was there), essentially all playing House.
 Anyone who has thrown more than one party knows that this isnt the smartest
 thing in the world to do. Is the average club-goer really getting his/her
 moneys worth when three of the four main areas in that venue are pumping the
 same stuff. I mean, Buck was in one room, while Simon was on in the Gathering
 room and some other guy was on in the By the People/Sunset Room and then
there
 was the D&B room.  
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Ms. K1dd:  I agree with you here, in one point, that house in too many rooms
is too much, yet, as you put it, the "average club goer" does listen to house.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 You say:  Dude, let me tell you something. Your ears were ringing after you
came   home, you just couldnt hear it. I guarantee you. Even if you had
earplugs in, as
 most of the people I knew in there did, you would've still had some ringing.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd: Let me tell _you_ something, I was in the speakers in the jungle
room and I do believe in preserving my hearing for future generations, so I
was wearing earplugs, and my ears were NOT ringing at the conclusion of the
evening.  From what I gathered at this party, the volume was no louder here
than at other massive parties I have been to.
=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
 Your Point?:
 >> MAJOR PROPS TO DIANA, MARTIN, ABBEY and all the others responsible for
 hosting the BEST NYE party in the Bay Area. As a former Toon Town Production
 Coordinator, I look forward to working with my good friends once again in
 their efforts to bring you all an example of how wonderful the scene was in
 the early '90's.>>
 
 Uh huh. The party was after New Years' Eve. I think that Martin would welcome
 any criticism I, or anyone else would have about this event. Constructive or
 no. Brownosing and coddling will lead you nowhere.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd's point:  Fuck it all if you can't give props to your brotha's,
sista's, and friends.  It was a fucken new year's party, it was to celebrate
the coming of the new year.  And for your information, brown nosing got me an
A in my EWRT 1A class. 

love from Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 05:59:32 1998
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Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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In a message dated 98-01-05 13:11:52 EST, Tekno313@AOL.COM writes:

<< What you describe here is that the DJ in question basically didnt create a
 mood you could appreciate for one reason or another, right? This is what is
 called a "vibe" amongst the people I chill with, and it's exactly what I felt
 was missing on Saturday night. There was no discernible mood that was set
 anywhere in that building I could feel. They "just didnt raise the heat." >>

So you are saying that a person can't point out that the music didn't do it
for them?  Maybe that when I say the other rooms didn't do it for me, you
would say it was the people, not the fact that the music isn't my style?
 
 << And if I read one more post from someone who said they went home and their
 ears werent ringing after standing in front of the speakers all night, I'm
 going to laugh myself out of my office and into the unemployment line! >>

Have fun.
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 06:23:08 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:22:18 EST
To: TeKnODiVa@aol.com, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: MY RANT OVER  RAVES!  (long)
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In a message dated 98-01-05 21:59:33 EST, TeKnODiVa@AOL.COM writes:


  You say:   I'm not a party every weekend type of person, but I do definately
agree
 with this.  Everything is overwhelming right now and is just blowing up in
our
 faces.  ARe we doing anything about this?? We're so desperate to have a good
 time we give up and go to whatever rave we can find. 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd:  Speak for yourself or others as you are doing here, honey, because
excuse me, I do NOT go out to any party, but have tended to go out every
weekend for weeks at a time every once in a while.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  
You say:  I don't get to go that often, so I only pick the parties I really
want to go to.  Maybe that's why I have a good time.  Or maybe it's just that
I have a positive outlook on the whole scene.  OR maybe everyone's so jaded
and drugged and sick of it all that they just don't care about changing things
for the better.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd: Listen, September child, I have not done drugs in a very long time.
Your "positive outlook" stems from not having seen the same things others of
us have seen.  True, here I have only been partying for a little less than a
year and a half, but I have seen the change, and I understand it.  I have also
seen some dope parties push through, as well as some shoddy ones.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  
 You say:  I'm not going to preach..
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Ms. K1dd:  Are you sure about that?
=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=
 You say: All I know is when I'm older and I can get my shit together I'm
going to throw the type of party I want to be at.  ANd it's going to be as
friggin cheap to get in as it can possibly be and everyone is going to have
the time of their life even if I have to personally go around cheering them
all up.  I know there's a ton of you out there that want to throw a party like
that.  You all have this *perfect rave* in your
 heads.  So get together... if you all pool your money you can do it.  It
 doesn't even have to cost that much.  A free party or something.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd:  Ideally, sure, you have friends with decks, friends who spin and
friends who have speakers, friendsd who have a generator and friends who will
attend, yeah you could do it.  Outside or in someone's home.  It has been done
before dear, it is nothing  new.  I have done it at my house plenty of times.
You think maybe a reason would be: IT"S FRIGGEN COLD AND RAINING OUTSIDE
BECAUSE IT IS THE MIDDLE ON WINTER!!!!!!! and that is why there have not been
any free out door parties in the past few months?

Sincerely,
Ms. K1dd


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 06:29:40 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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OK i guess my definition of vibe is the overall attitude of the CROWD. not
the MUSIC.
the music can be KICKASS and there can be tons of assholes standing
around.
it can also be the otehr way around: SUCKY music, "goodvibey" people.

if i'm stupid for blocking out bad attitudes and dancing all night, then
so be it.
i paid my $20, i wanted to hear jungle. i did so, without letting other
people's "bad vibes" destroy my fun.
i didn't particularly like the first dj's set, it wasn't to my taste.
didn't build up.
it's true that music can sometimes set the vibe at a party.
but the vibe i was saying i didnt care avbout is the vibe of the people
around me.
i'm a lamer and i admit it.
xo
lara

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Tekno313 wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 1/5/98 3:40:19 PM, you wrote:
> 
> <<Am I the only one who didn't care about the vibe @ Toon Town? I mean... I
> went to dance.. I went to listen to bombass jungle.. I didn't go to worry
> about the people around me. Does this make me a *bad* raver?>>
> 
> No, but it does make you sound lame. And if you were so unconcerned with the
> vibe, then why say this:
> 
> >> I wasn't particularly impressed with the first (second? dunno) DJ
> as his set was anticlimactic, often throwing down a hard track and
> following it up with some jazzy mellowish hardstep. just didn't raise the
> heat.>>
> 
> What you describe here is that the DJ in question basically didnt create a
> mood you could appreciate for one reason or another, right? This is what is
> called a "vibe" amongst the people I chill with, and it's exactly what I felt
> was missing on Saturday night. There was no discernible mood that was set
> anywhere in that building I could feel. They "just didnt raise the heat."
> 
> And if I read one more post from someone who said they went home and their
> ears werent ringing after standing in front of the speakers all night, I'm
> going to laugh myself out of my office and into the unemployment line!
> 
> --Monty
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 06:36:08 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:33:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: mira@wellsfargo.com
cc: Vortexbrad@aol.com, lara@vibe.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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my intention wasn't to back NOMAD and say that they are right for not
paying the DJ's, I agree this is wrong.
my intention was to merely say that hey, it happens all the time and it
sucks.
:) i truly hope the Dj's get paid. it sucks how shit like this happens,
when in reality, without the dj's we wouldn't have the music to shake our
booties, we'd just have kidz wandering around day-glo warehouses listening
to a tape. on drugs. or somethin.
anyway, i've seen and heard and observed how much heart soul and effort
some of these dj's put into their skills, and it saddens me to see them
get jocked. 
peace out
lamer of the year:)

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:

> hi lara!!....  *8)
> 
> 
> just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the space
> where they held the party is owned by the promoters...they did much more
> than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see that a
> sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
> play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm not
> gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
> believe that they can retain their credibility...
> 
> an example of where their intentions are....in their pockets...>smirk<
> 
> 
> 
> miragirl
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Vortexbrad [SMTP:Vortexbrad@aol.com]
> > Sent:	Monday, January 05, 1998 8:01 AM
> > To:	lara@vibe.org; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > Subject:	Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
> > 
> > 
> > In a message dated 1/5/98 7:30:05 AM, you wrote:
> > 
> > >Just to let you know,
> > >alot of times parties don't break even
> > >and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment
> > providers.
> > >I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
> > >emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
> > >Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
> > >There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN
> > and
> > >WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks dick,
> > yeah,
> > >but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they just
> > enjoy
> > >playing out.
> > >Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
> > 
> > thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the difficulties in
> > promoting large events, having done so many times in the past. Please
> > understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the
> > presence of a
> > contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and technicians is
> > one
> > reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this
> > country. To
> > put on a show without being able to cover your expenses up front is
> > poor
> > business and passes the financial responsibility of a successful show
> > onto
> > those that were hired to perform and tech. This is WRONG. It takes
> > lots of
> > money to put on shows like this and to pretend that it does not is
> > also WRONG.
> > 
> > Peace, and thanks for your response
> > 
> > --vortexbrad
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 06:45:36 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d6267325.34b1d0a3@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:35:12 EST
To: dreamer@ziplink.net, lara@vibe.org
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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In a message dated 98-01-05 22:31:17 EST, dreamer@ziplink.net writes:

 
  You say:  I must say I'm curious too... particularly why someone would have
 "vibe" as part of her email address, yet apparently believe the vibe at a
 party makes no difference!
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd:  Are you stoopid? Orson gave her the account.  If you had been
around earlier in LIFE you would have known that.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 You say:  I'm not saying your attitude is "bad," Lara, I just find it very
 hard to relate to.  It's hard for me to understand how someone could really
 dig the rave scene but not care about the vibe, because for me rave and
 vibe are synonomous.  I don't care if the music is the best I've ever heard
 -- with vibe, it's a rave; without vibe, it's just a party with great dance
 music.
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd:  You never want to go to a party just to hear the music?  She is a
JUNGLIST, music is of the utmost, friends and "vibe" are just a plus.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 You say:  If vibe doesn't matter to you, would you be just as happy cruising
 up and down the boulevard with a bunch of cool jock/cheerleader types as
 you would be at a party, as long as you had a terrific car stereo and your
 favorite jungle mix tapes?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd:  What is wrong with jocks and cheerleaders?  I have taken the
sweetest cheerleader to aprties and she had a fun time, loved it in fact. You
know, you need to get to know epopel before you judge them.  And honey, sorry,
but you CANNOT do I need to repeat that? dance in a car, and no system in a
car is the same as that at a party.
=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
  You say:  Might you also say it doesn't matter who you're eating dinner with
 as long as the food is good? 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ms. K1dd:  HELL YEAH!!! it's all about good grubbin.  

So, now what I gotta say is, you suck.  You say you  weren't gonna talk shit
about one of my closest freinds?  Well, I better see a woops comin from my
screen next time I see your name.

Sincerely,
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 06:56:36 1998
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From: Dj Marq <DjMarq@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:55:53 EST
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Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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let me see...favorite rave toy....hmm....It would probably have to be
my...uh...PACIFIER!! yeah! my pacifier!! My pacifier has saved my butt lots of
times before. When you're Eing really hard, or frying, you need something to
chew on(rather than your finger) so you chew on a pacifier. yeah baby yeah!!
other than that, it would probably have to be my baby kermit. moving on to
clothes....hmm.....my 13 inch stacks, my lucky rainbow visor, and all my
beautiful BEADS!! Beads rooole 'n stuff. yeah.

                                      peace, love, 'n hairgrease,

                                                     MarQ
   "The Dj is like the guru, the booth is the altar, and the dancefloor is the
sacred ground we worship"

p.s. Love ya 'trice!!!       =)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 07:15:32 1998
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Message-ID: <e4a3243e.34b1d9ca@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:14:15 EST
To: TeKnODiVa@aol.com, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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In a message dated 98-01-05 22:02:23 EST, TeKnODiVa@AOL.COM writes:

<<         WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is the
 coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or elsewhere? >>

My favorite costume is the one I wore to make fun of candy ravers
The favorite costumes I have seen are the ones I make fun of because they look
so stoopid.
My favorite toy is my baseballbat

Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 07:28:34 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
Reply-To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
cc: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>, Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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I enjoy a good vibe just like the next person.
i'd also like to think that i don't emit bad vibes to people.
i care about people.
i love my friends very much, and their company at dinner is wonderful.
but when you go to a party, and the "vibe sucks" and not many of your
friends are there, you can do 1 of 2 things

1) let it ruin your night, and be miserable. to use your analogy,
starchild let the food taste like shit.

2) don't give a shit and indulge in the music (or food, to go with star's 
analogy), which is the reason i
entered, and remain in the scene in the first place.

you can't judge me as a vibeless person just because i don't want to run
around smiling and throwing candy and flowers at bad vibe people when
there's a negative "vibe" at a party.
	i went to dance.
i danced.
yeah ok i admit the vibe sucked, but *AGAIN* i didn't let it effect me. 
i also gave the party the benefit of the doubt because not many people
showed.
sorry if this makes me a horrible lame bad person, but wait.. no i'm
really not sorry. i didn't make anyone frown, i didn't hit anyone, i
didn't sell bunk drugs. i didn't do anything to negatively hurt anyone so
i have no reason to apologize, so i take it back.

i'm sure some of you would be HAPPY if i were to revert to my bedroom
dancing in the small 5 foot by 3 foot area i have in my room, but to be
quite honest, starchild, it's not that easy to get the quality i want.

i don't have DJ's in my room with skillz. all i have are a handful of my
favorite recordz and about a hundred mixtapes and cd's. 
fresh live sets are alot better than mixtapes you've heard over and over
again.
i don't have a kickass system that makes my whole body shudder.
and i sure as hell don't have the dancing room.

it's not that i don't care about the vibe. it's that i care about the
music so much that if the vibe sucks, i can ignore it and go with the
melody.
yeah it's great to have someone dancin by ya pumpin their body to the beat
and givin ya hugs n smiles.
but if i don't have it, it don't phase me.
lame. vibeless. call me waht you want.
but i know who i am, and i know how to have a good time at a massive that
has good jungle and little "vibe."
*shrug*

i only hope one day those of you who have awful times at parties can
realize that you CAN sometimes ignore those "badvibers" and still have a
good time.

until then,
xo
lara

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Starchild wrote:

> Dear Rave Friends,
> 
> Lara shared (in part):
> 
> >Am I the only one who didn't care about the vibe @ Toon Town?
> >I mean... I went to dance.. I went to listen to bombass jungle..
> >I didn't go to worry about the people around me. Does this make me a *bad*
> >raver? Just curious anyway.
> 
>         I must say I'm curious too... particularly why someone would have
> "vibe" as part of her email address, yet apparently believe the vibe at a
> party makes no difference!
> 
>         I'm not saying your attitude is "bad," Lara, I just find it very
> hard to relate to.  It's hard for me to understand how someone could really
> dig the rave scene but not care about the vibe, because for me rave and
> vibe are synonomous.  I don't care if the music is the best I've ever heard
> -- with vibe, it's a rave; without vibe, it's just a party with great dance
> music.
> 
>         If vibe doesn't matter to you, would you be just as happy cruising
> up and down the boulevard with a bunch of cool jock/cheerleader types as
> you would be at a party, as long as you had a terrific car stereo and your
> favorite jungle mix tapes?
> 
>         Might you also say it doesn't matter who you're eating dinner with
> as long as the food is good?
> 
> May the vibe be with us,
>                                        <<< Starchild >>>
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 07:31:19 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:30:32 EST
To: JustaK1D@aol.com, TeKnODiVa@aol.com, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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In a message dated 98-01-06 02:16:26 EST, JustaK1D@Aol.com writes:

<< My favorite toy is my baseballbat
 
 Ms. K1dd
  >>
and mine a huge can of glitta to dump all over your head, 10,000 glowie
things, furry bellbottoms, candy, candy, candy, blow-pops, pacifiers, lites,
hair dye, glow in tha dark halter top, massive platforms, bubbles, a little
backback, fake eyelashes, faux fur, beads, beads, beads, and anything day-glow
color...and its all for you ms. k1dd
LOVE YA!
JiL :o)
ps LOL if you know me you know how it really is :o)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 07:42:01 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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My personal favorite rave toy is vibrating Mr. Potatohead.  Actually any 
kind of Mr. Potatohead product is good if you ask me, but the vibrating 
one is fun to play with when you're around kids on E.   :)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 08:16:29 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-06 02:16:23 EST, you write:

<< My favorite costume is the one I wore to make fun of candy ravers >>


what does this costume consist of justakid?

marq

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 08:31:05 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:35:50 -0700
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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I would have to say my favorite toy is my plastic flounder fish (from the
little mermaid) that some cute candy raver gave me at the gathering, it
will definitely out last any silly pacifier.  Hell, I get to walk around
with this cute yellow and blue fish hanging out of my mouth, I love
it!!!!  My favorite e-toy is most definitely anyone that will let me
nibble on there fingers.

RLove

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 08:40:34 1998
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Cool Rave toys I have know and loved:

Visual:
   *My buzz light year from burger king that I put a flashing red     
light that I built in the chest to make it really cool
   *My green bike light that I lost one night at acme
   *light sticks on mint dental floss (strange! I know!)

Touchy/Feely toys:
   *This cool new vibrating hair brush that I just got!!!
   *The tickle me Cookie Monster I saw at KB.
   *happy massagers (they're so cute)
   *balloons
   *big fuzzy speakers (I discoverd this when I didn't want to be near     
anybody at a masssive)

-idw
"If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do Humanitarians eat?"
idw@hotmail.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 08:51:23 1998
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I have been working with Jack Meyer to hurry up production of our 
"Ultra-Beam"s. They sport flat 20-20/135db responce at over 2 miles. We 
need this because I believe the ultimate chill room would be the 
Farrallon Islands. "Bumpin' wid da Puffins" Our chill room is called. We 
have already put in calls to ALL of the greatist Chill DJ's in the 
world,
So be surprised if they show!

Here at Space Nomads "No promise will be left un-said"


Niels P. Mayer wrote:
> Yeah, but what would really be killer is a mega-huge bouncy-castle rave
> with a bunch of  Meyer Sound "sound beam" speakers.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 08:55:49 1998
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To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org, TeKnODiVa@aol.com
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This one's easy...

"Wicket," my rave Ewok...A.K.A. "The bear"

-M-


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 09:36:42 1998
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From: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: Break Dancer <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: HaPpY KyDs
In-Reply-To: <19980106040545.10479.qmail@hotmail.com>
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How about at 1:30 on the top floor closest to the leftmost entrance as you
face the area where there is usually a bar.  Depending on which floor they
open there will be one.  Yes I know where it is but can't tell you all. 

Razor

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Break Dancer wrote:

> So where is the meeting spot gonna be peoples????
> Cause i'm going and i wanna see you guys....ok
> byebye for now :)
> peace
> Philip
> disordr
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 09:39:55 1998
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From: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: Ravermail <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: HaPpY KyDs
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9801052001.A1461-0100000@netcom20>
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An even better spot since most of the Davis Tribe will be there to watch
Uncle Noah in his KDVS shirt.

Razor


On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Noah Apodaca wrote:

> 
> 
> The meeting point is right in front of the decks during my set! :D :D :D :D
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Break Dancer wrote:
> 
> > So where is the meeting spot gonna be peoples????
> > Cause i'm going and i wanna see you guys....ok
> > byebye for now :)
> > peace
> > Philip
> > disordr
> > 
> > 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 10:12:04 1998
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    'Lo there, peeps! YEAH!  U go, Noah!  KDVS partEEs on.... :-))

> An even better spot since most of the Davis Tribe will be there to watch
> Uncle Noah in his KDVS shirt.
>
> Razor
>
> On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Noah Apodaca wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The meeting point is right in front of the decks during my set! :D :D :D :D
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Break Dancer wrote:
> >
> > > So where is the meeting spot gonna be peoples????
> > > Cause i'm going and i wanna see you guys....ok
> > > byebye for now :)
> > > peace
> > > Philip
> > > disordr
> > >
> > >
> >



--
<<<A PLURry boy...>>>                    dr. XeNo
"Sing while you may!"                                      >:-)
          -- Edward Qa-Spel        "Set me free,
                                                Remotivate me!"
       >:-(                                         -- Martin L. Gore
              <<<<<< dr_XeNo@pacbell.net >>>>>>
*TeK-iNduCed EuPHoria*



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 10:51:34 1998
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From: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: Ravermail <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: What is going on in the scene?
In-Reply-To: <19980105215606.6633.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com>
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yeah he knows what's up ( you play a killer set by the way).  You just
can't think about the money.  Before I got into the rave scene I had
organized and thrown many a party (not techno) for upwards of around
300-400 people at my place, multiple kegs, and band in the back.  We never
charged money for the beer and the bands would paly for free because all
they wanted to do was have fun.  We never thought about the money because
we felt it was our duty to all the free parties we had been to.  It's all
Karma.  To this day I will leave any Davis college party that "charges to
get in".  The idea is if you're thinking about anything else but sharing
your fun with your guests the party won't be as fun as it could be.  I
know Marty of Happy Kids has lost money in the past but all those parties
have been the best, right along with BBQ Beats where they waved you in
with flashlights and asked for donations the next day.

Razor

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, macadio wrote:

> 
> I have seen the Threads on several posts about The
> sketchyness of promoters in the scene and especially
> this past holiday and it is just a shame. I heard
> from several reliable sources that Tom and Stacy did
> not pay any of the DJ's at all They say they lost
> money?? Now maybe some one can talk to Mohan or
> Hector of FTT cause I know they are good friends with
> Dan and I know Dan played maybe someone can confirm
> this? I don't understand how you can "Lose money"
> when your party is packed to the Rim at $20-$30 I am
> not sure what the price of Admin: was? but with
> 2,000-2,500 people at even $20 a pop $40,000-$50,000
> Now there is no way you can say you did not break
> even making that kind of $$ when you have the lease
> on a space. I have seen budgets costing 50-80K but
> not when the person has the lease on the venue in
> most cases that is a good portion of the budget the
> venue. So I think that is very sketchy and as far as
> Bagok tribe and the whole Treasure Island thing they
> supposedly lost $$ on that as well. A Friend of mine
> Dave had just about all of his black lights
> stolen/Missing from that party and they were like
> "yea we lost money" like no big deal but when my
> buddy was like well im missin $2,500 worth of lights
> they were like we can't afford to pay for those. That
> is just wrong!!! So now my buddy may not be able to
> do to many big events cause he does not have the
> lighting for them as a result of irresponsible
> people. It just makes me upset how some people just
> like to rape the scene and get away with it time
> after time. Thankfully I have not worked to closely
> with people like that or have never had that really
> happen to me. I recall when I played a party in Santa
> Rosa for what now is a pretty good friend and he lost
> a lot of money on his party and he still payed me and
> micron after we both refused to get paid cause we
> felt bad his party did not go off. And he told me "No
> take the money it was in the budget" and I was blown
> away by that. Most promoters would try to shuck and
> jive with you and stuff but this kid was on the
> money. There is a key thing here "In the budget" you
> have to plan for things and not bank on shit.
> 
> ADVICE.. for would be promoters and some of you old
> skewlers.
> 
> I have done several small parties of my own and
> continue to do so. One thing you have to keep in mind
> is you have to set aside several grand and say hey I
> am going to lose this money it is gone history etc..
> You have to have $$ before you can do a party you
> can't bank on a crowd, or names or anything you have
> to have the money to start with. Most persons don't
> they bank on stuff. Over budget your party for those
> last minute expenses and trust me there will be some
> if not many unexpected expenses. If you lose, break
> or screw something up take responsibility for it. For
> instance I lost about $300 worth of my buddys lights
> the one that may be getting screwed for the lost
> lights. And you better believe that I payed out of my
> own pocket for the missing lights I did not give him
> some bull shit story or anything. You have to be
> stand up person for people to respect you.. Sorry I
> am rambling the point is no one is perfect but if you
> are going to do parties you have to take some
> responsiblity for your shit!! and have plenty of $$
> to lose and plenty of tylenol cause doing parties is
> very stressfull but fun :-)
> 
> Peace,
> Macadio  
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 12:34:00 1998
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From: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a27a919e.34b22497@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:33:25 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: REPOST OF ORIGINAL: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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THE FOLLOWING IS A REPOST OF THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE IN THE NOMAD/ORIGIN
THREAD:::::::::::::::
-----------------
Forwarded Message: 


--------------
Forwarded Message:

Date: 	Monday, January 5, 1998 12:58:07 AM
From: 	Vortexbrad
Subj: 	Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
To: 	sfraves@hyperreal.org

While a good party, Origin (held on NYE at 2nd and Jackson), thrown by Nomad
Interactive, proved to be a real bummer for the many fine talents who actually
made the night come to life. I was very sad to see DJ's and technicians, with
shoulders slumped at 7am, when their payment was finally made to them (5 hrs
late) via personal check. Subsequent verification for funds revealed what all
hoped would not come to pass: INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.  
*******
What happened? A question all who were left with worthless paper in their
hands were asking of themselves.  A very good friend of mine was asked to
front the rental on some very expensive video gear, do the set-up and tech Cy
Funk3's show...a show that would not have gone off with out his generosity of
labor, gear, and trust. If we had not agreed at the last minute to come up for
the gig, VJ Avant would not have had the gear to pull off his portion of the
show--a major aspect of Cy Funk3's act, and (aside from the lasers--good job
guys!) there would have been no video visuals in the main room.
*******
The last communique from Nomad was that they would make good on the money owed
(at least to my friend) on Monday, January 5th. I would very much enjoy
sending a message to this list that all our fears were for naught, and that
Nomad made good on their promise. Until then, my friend (and others) remains
out several hundred dollars for rental equipment he covered, and no payment
for his time, travel and expertise.
*******
To Stacey @ Nomad: Show the people whose talent and equipment are essential to
pulling off great parties that they are appreciated, and that their trust in
you was deserved. When you do, you have my promise that I will immediately
inform this list.

--vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 15:34:26 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:32:43 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Fun at Toontown!!
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	We got there kinda early on Sat, like 11-ish 
Finally met the Fish himself :) and then we proceeded to lose ourselves in the
many rooms and dark hallways and kewl little booths selling all sorts of 
neat items.  There was sushi (looked like it, but didn't try it cuz i was in
no 
mood for food :) and handmade beaded bracelets and clay trinkets with 
"Peace" written on them in a gazillion different languages and even free
water!  Nice!!  I especially liked the wall in the black light where we could 
paint in these neat flourescent paints.  Great way to chill while the 
place was still filling up 
	It wasn't very crowded ....personally, i like a nice packed warehouse so it
was OK by me when peeps finally started pouring in after like 2 or 3.  The
banners in the middle room (the one next to Toontown) were *SO* beautiful,
whoever did those has some real artistic talent. The green laser next door
looked even better when they finally got some smoke in the place & dimmed the
lights and the music got crazy kewl...in the beginning there were a lot of
peeps just standing around *watching* the DJ spin but nobody really dancing
(which sorta bugs me) but eventually everyone just got into it as the nite
wore on
	Highlights of my evening:   Seeing Adam (we are always at the same parties!)
and meeting his friend Michelle (you are so kewl!) and, as always, hanging
with Hai (*big* hugs) and Alex.  Met Terri, too -- great hair!! :)  Got to
make a bog 'ol fool of myself (as usual! LOL), talking to Steve Loria and his
record :) , not even realizing who he was until he told me.  Duh!!  
	The VIBE situation was basically "bring-your-own", but hey I was with some
awesome peeps so we had nothin but fun :)  If this had been on NYE as planned,
it woulda probably been one of the best parties I'd been to up here in the
Bay...I've never been to past Toontown parties so I have nothing to compare it
to, but I thought everyone did a super job, in spite of the yucky weather and
postponement from NYE to Sat 

luv n hugs
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 16:36:27 1998
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From: Guy Smith <guy.smith@segasoft.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: My favorite rave toy
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:44:58 -0800
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My favorite rave toy is a squishy foam ball from microsoft. Its blue and =
has a big E printed on it. But its starting to fall apart from all the =
tweekers trying to stick their fingers in da middle of it!=20
C U all at Happy Kidzzz!!!
W/Love&Harmony
Mr Buster

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 18:13:56 1998
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To: forget you like forget me <TANGJ@carleton.edu>
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
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To: TANGJ & the sfraves crews

Prof Smith does not spin anywhere regularly that I know of, he does play the
XLR8R events around town & guest spots at a lot of parties.  Keep an eye out
for his name on fliers.  No Star Eyes did not spin at TI, she is out of
town, she'll be back soon.  Thanks for the props on Sage, I'm her manager,
I'll let her know you dug her set.

So you want more info on the yin huh?  Well, for the sounds of the female
junglists check out:
  
Eklektic, Thursday's at Kate O'briens (579 Howard Street, 21+, $5) with yin
residents Sage & Star Eyes, you can get an eargasm on a weekly basis, 10:pm
-- 2:am.  Please join us.  

Please call the hotline# 415.332.5800 X247 --- 

dmarie of Eklektic & Ground Score
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 10:46 PM 1/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
>so the party on t island sucked. the only good thing was sage and prof smith
>outside. will never go to any party where jungle got such crappy spot. it was
>slightly louder than my home stereo. never saw profesoor smith spins. he kept
>pushing surprising corners and turning sounds around. does he spin anywhere
>regularly?  and also, did stareyes spin?  miss her every time.  
>


me...dmarie


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 18:24:27 1998
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To: dreamer@ziplink.net
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Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:25:58 -0800
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thank you starchild for your words of wisdom.  much of what you said is
well presented and true on the whole.  =)

i do agree that evil (in a general sense) must be exposed to the masses
for what it is...evil.  i guess something that must be said about me is
that i have never agreed with the often spineless
name-gaming...bordering on libel... that exists sometimes on this list
when facts are presented fueled by rumors and maliciousness.  sometimes
it is harder for people to distinguish facts between media-hype,
particularly to newer members of the sf scene, who haven't had a chance
to experience people's intentions first-hand.  i was fortunate enough to
know in advance about nomad interactive and the promoters behind the
party.  i've had my own experience with them (see wayne's post of
earlier) and chose not to go to origin.  i hoped for the best though
considering the fact that my friends were all spinning there and of
course, it was new year's eve after all (dawn of new
year...make-dreams-happen-kinda-night, yanno.)  i can tell you i was
shocked but not surprised to find the worst had come true.  i didn't
think that they'd go there again quite frankly and i didn't think that
they'd put the sf scene in such jeopardy when they fly in outta-towners
to throw tracks down and then bogg on the deal.  if "that's just the way
it is done in chicago" (thank you wayne for the quote) then i doubt my
friend would have flown out here to sf when he can get the same
treatment at home...hell...airline food sucks right?

i guess in this case i figured everyone already knew exactly who we are
talking about...am i'm sure everyone did.  it is often my practice to
sit back and listen...i have never been one to post unless i felt
strongly...even when i found my own friends or parties in the
cross-fire.


miragirl

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	dreamer@ziplink.net [SMTP:dreamer@ziplink.net]
> Sent:	Monday, January 05, 1998 9:16 PM
> To:	mira@wellsfargo.com
> Cc:	Rave Friends
> Subject:	RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
> 
> Dear Mira,
> 
>         I appreciate your desire not to get personal by naming names.
> Without sounding too mushy, it is this kind of niceness that helps
> make the
> scene what it is!
> 
>         In the case of unscrupulous promoters however, if we aren't
> willing
> to publicly identify them it should come as no surprise to you or
> anyone
> else when they DO retain their credibility.  Unless you recognize from
> the
> name of the party that it has a bad rep, how can you avoid parties
> thrown
> by bad people if you don't know who they are?  Party names are easily
> changed, after all.
> 
>         I'm not saying anyone's house should be toilet-papered, but
> there
> should be some kind of social cost to doing business as a sleazebag --
> public embarrassment and loss of image are punishments that fit the
> crime,
> imho.
> 
>         There is a huge difference between stating an unpleasant fact
> just
> to be unpleasant and stating an unpleasant fact in order to accomplish
> a
> positive result, like keeping people from being burned.  Tellling the
> world
> that a promoter constantly picks his nose, for example, is not
> particularly
> important for anyone to know even if it happens to be true. Therefore
> spreading this information falls into the category of simply being
> nasty
> (not to mention grossing people out!)  8)
> 
>         But if you believe a promoter is ripping people off, you have
> strong evidence that this is true, and the person(s) in question
> can't/won't give info to the contrary, then you're doing people more
> of a
> disservice NOT to share the information!
> 
>         Think:  If you are one who was ripped off, and it turns out
> the
> person(s) who screwed you has/have a history of such behavior,
> wouldn't you
> like to have known this in advance?
> 
> Keeping it real,
>                                         <<< Starchild >>>
> 
> 
> (Mira shared):
> 
> >hi lara!!....  *8)
> >
> >just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the
> space
> >where they held the party is owned by the promoters...they did much
> more
> >than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see that
> a
> >sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
> >play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm
> not
> >gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
> >believe that they can retain their credibility...
> >
> >an example of where their intentions are....in their
> pockets...>smirk<
> >
> >miragirl
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 18:51:53 1998
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From: SCiEnCe <djscience@rocketmail.com>
Subject: DJ Blues
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Sorry for the rant, but...

...I HATE this time of year. There are virtually NO records coming out
right now and it's been this way for almost a month. 

(scrambles for his methadone)

-Science







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 18:57:22 1998
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Hey I second that motion!!!
I have been to several stores in the past 2 weeks and
there has not been any good stuff that I like (at
least by my standards) I hate the holidays as well
for rekkids :(  But I got a tip on this new well not
so new but new to me label and they have some dope
stuff :)

Macadio 







---SCiEnCe <djscience@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the rant, but...
> 
> ...I HATE this time of year. There are virtually NO
records coming out
> right now and it's been this way for almost a month. 
> 
> (scrambles for his methadone)
> 
> -Science
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 19:10:24 1998
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> ...I HATE this time of year. There are virtually NO records coming out
> right now and it's been this way for almost a month. 

Propellerheads long player is due for domestic release any day now .. woohoo!

On a related note, it seems Kraftwerk will be in town ~April ... double woohoo!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 19:11:56 1998
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At 8:00 PM -0800 1/5/98, Wayne D. Correia wrote:

>At this time, Ethan Miller told them in very plain english on SF Raves to
>get out of town.

Just to be clear, I didn't tell them to "get out of town". I did express
some rather severe displeasure with their behaviour at the time though.

see ya
ethan



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 Yet another amazing observation from a raver. No wonder Tom and Stacey 
have been able to rip off ravers for years.

>Just to let you know,
>alot of times parties don't break even



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 19:24:57 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: My Fav TOy
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bummer, I thought I had posted this but it never went through (??)

my fave toy WOULD be:

A miniature Mulder and Scully I could keep in my pocket and take out every
time I wonder "Why?".  THey would then proceed in intelligently debating the
purpose and existence of such pondered phenomena.  This would fascinate my
sorry Gemini self  for hours.

LOVES!!
Terri


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 19:32:12 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:27:53 -0800
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From: "Wayne D. Correia" <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: Still Suck in 1998
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At 11:11 AM -0800 1/6/98, Ethan Miller wrote:
>At 8:00 PM -0800 1/5/98, Wayne D. Correia wrote:
>
>>At this time, Ethan Miller told them in very plain english on SF Raves to
>>get out of town.
>
>Just to be clear, I didn't tell them to "get out of town". I did express
>some rather severe displeasure with their behaviour at the time though.
>
>see ya
>ethan

Hi Ethan,

Sorry to improperly misquote you (I should have checked the archives before
posting, but I was late for dinner :-) and thanks for the clarification. I
definitely remember your "severe displeasure" was communicated very
eloquently. :-)

-w



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 19:39:48 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:32:33 -0800 (PST)
From: SCiEnCe <djscience@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Blues
To: Sharif Torpis <storpis@crl.com>
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---Sharif Torpis <storpis@crl.com> wrote:
>
> > ...I HATE this time of year. There are virtually NO records coming
out
> > right now and it's been this way for almost a month. 
> 
> Propellerheads long player is due for domestic release any day now
.. woohoo!
> 
> On a related note, it seems Kraftwerk will be in town ~April ...
double woohoo!

Well it seems that it isn't such a problematic time for domestics as
much as British imports. The distributers in the UK take 2 big
holidays a year- 1 from july to the end of august, and one for the end
of the year (that usually covers all of december). Seeing as 99% of
all drum'n bass comes out of the UK, it makes it a somber time for the
humble record buyer. 

-peace

Science


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 19:54:00 1998
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SCiEnCe wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the rant, but...
> 
> ...I HATE this time of year. There are virtually NO records coming out
> right now and it's been this way for almost a month.
> 
> (scrambles for his methadone)
> 
> -Science


hey...why not be creative and make your own music.
I mean if a dj is worth hundreds of dollars an hour then
they should have some musical talent dont you think  =)

	><{{{">   <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 19:59:56 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-06-98 00:35

my friend Ryan took some jeans and sewed all kinds of little stuffed animals
on it and wore big cartoon gloves and a groovy jester kind of hat with bells
and all...he wore a neon orange hunting vest with words on the back "DON'T
SHOOT! I'M A RAVER KID!"...seemed to be a hit that night...peace...

aloha,
moki4u2c

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 20:00:07 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-06-98 01:35

all this talk about the vibe reminds me of an incident when I was at school in
Texas...decided to date this sorority girl 'cause she was crip...you know,
blonde, blue eyed southern gal...she invited me over to her home in Houston's
River Oaks area (tres poshee)...party for her cousin' who was home from
abroad...seems one of the maids (she was black, oh what a surprise) had a
nephew who was a dj and was in town passing through on his way back to
Chicago...so he was asked to spin some music at the party later in the evening
after the quartet was done...well, I went to this cavernous mansion to chill
and get to know my date better...the food was gourmet out da ass and the drinks
were flowin'...I cut through the kitchen and I saw the help was eating their
dinner since they didn't have enough time earlier to sit down...someone saw me
lookin' and told me not to be shy so I dug in...mash potatoes, fried chicken.
green beans, corn bread, breaded catfish, you name it...damn if I didn't stuff
myself...the evening drags on in the main room with the boring chit-chat and
various lame scenarios...haven't seen you in a while we should meet at the
club, etc., but hey I'm not judging right...then I hear the faint bassline of a
groovy beat...I excuse myself and follow the music to a corner of what I assume
is the living room right by the glass door to the pool area...saw this kid
goin' through some records so I asked him to take me on a ride just jokin' like
and he says he don't know if these people might freak or somethin'...but I said
the hell with it, he's here anyway...he smiles and it's on...thank god for Bose
speakers...so he's playing trax and it's just off the hook...he's got his food
behind the table by the record crates and we're snackin', listenin', dancin' my
boodie off...and my point is, the location sucked, the people sucked (talk
about fake), the vibe was non-existent...but I ate some tasty grinds and got my
perpetual groove in motion...I travelled that night with the music and got fed
both body and soul...so am I an uncouth non-connoiseur of parties since all the
ingredients sure weren't there?...I mean, I guess I'm just a simpleton since
slammin' music and good food were enough for me right?...I'm eatin' with my
hands and I'm the only one dancing, literally...how embarrassing?...I don't
give a flyin' rat's ass!...no one can tell me there wasn't vibe there, know
why?...I wasn't alone!...it only takes two and that's where it starts...I take
it back to where I'm from and he takes it back from where he's from...it speads
see?...but I guess I'm just an unsophisticated kind of kid...

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 20:09:02 1998
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To: "Wayne D. Correia" <wayne@club.net>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: Still Suck in 1998
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Wayne, Oliver Stone just called.  Can you meet for lunch?  

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 20:22:56 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:23:21 -0800
To: sfraves@qmail.hyperreal.org
From: Leslie Ayres <leslie@netcommunications.net>
Subject: Vibes, Lara, Nikita and such
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It's making my day to see lara having to defend herself for going to a
party and saying she didn't really care about the vibe... that she went for
the music and had fun anyway...

cuz, i don't think i've *ever* been at a party where lara was that didn't
have a vibe...

and that's because when you see lara's smiling face (and it's usually
smiling in a most contagious way) at a party, and you see her dancing with
her heart and soul to music she loves (heck, i've seen her dance with her
heart and soul to music she *didn't* love!) ....

THAT *IS* THE VIBE!!!

maybe that's why lara doesn't care about having the vibe already there when
she goes out.... because she brings it with her... and she spreads it
around...

so the next time we feel that little annoyance at a party, cuz the vibe
ain't there for us.... first, look around for lara, and go dance next to
her, and it'll be all good!  and then if she's not there, maybe we can each
try to create what she does, and make the vibe ourselves!

creating a vibe isn't up to the other people, folks, it's in your mood and
your attitude, and what you create will affect others... sure, sometimes
it's a little more work, because the other dancers have a few more layers
of attitude to get through... but it can be done if you really want to.

love,
leslie


btw, i've been meaning to post about Nikita last Friday!  holy moley!  i
went out because i had stayed in over new years and needed to dance... and
hoped that it would be a fairly dedicated crowd since the occasional
partiers were tired from their new years craziness....

got there at 11:30 and carlos was making the main room into a cathedral of
house music, i danced solid in front of the turntables until he was done at
1am, and he actually brought tears to my eyes.... with his music, his
energy, the love he puts out... and a sample that blew me away, that said
"Not everyone understands house music.... house music is a spiritual thing"
....  and the amazing guy with the striped sweater who turned around and
started dancing with me in the middle of it with a huge smile on his face,
i'll never forget the energy at that moment!

thank you carlos for an amazing set.... i didn't see a person i knew until
2:30 am (hi phred!), which made the evening even more special to me....
lest we think that the underground has some sort of hold on the "vibe" ....
please know it just ain't so... there was more vibe on that dancefloor with
carlos than i've seen at many an underground party.  it ain't about if it's
a club, or if it's an underground, or whatever... it's about a special
alchemy of time and place, heart and soul, beats and movement, and when it
happens, it's pretty damned cool!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 21:09:47 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:10:16 -0800
To: sfraves@qmail.hyperreal.org
From: Leslie Ayres <leslie@netcommunications.net>
Subject: a letter to Nomad
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an open letter to nomad/stacey and tom:

as pointed out by an earlier post, in the past you have responded to
criticism on sfraves, usually in a fairly direct and informative manner.

the current thread is very explicit in its statements about non-payment of
performers and suppliers for your recent party.  these are very serious
staements, and there has not yet been a response from you so far.

in my opinion, rehashing personal conflicts in a public forum (i.e. your
history and issues with wayne correia, some of which he talked about, some
of which he didn't), and responding to rumors about rumors about rumors is
not something we should expect in this public forum -- unless you chose
to...

and, as you know, i have nothing to do with any of these issues, nothing to
do with nomad, and no involvement with this topic except that it affects
the scene that is important to me and an important part of my life...

but because i have in the past spoken out against what i felt were
inaccurate, self-serving and manipulative remarks made by others on sfraves
about nomad, i think it is appropriate that i make this request here.

my intent has always been that people should speak out fairly and honestly,
and let the cards fall where they may.

this issue is, to me, a serious accusation, and it would be honorable to
respond to it in this forum, made up of many people who support this scene,
which your parties are a part of.

here's your chance.  i hope you take it.

respectfully,
leslie



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 21:14:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:14:26 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: "Wayne D. Correia" <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: Still Suck in 1998
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At 12:06 PM -0800 1/6/98, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>Wayne, Oliver Stone just called.  Can you meet for lunch?

Why, did he see Nomad near the book depository on New Years Eve? :-)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 21:19:27 1998
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come *on*, Macadio.  You're completely in this for the money! -  at
least that's the distinct impression I got at your overcrowded,
obnoxiously overpriced, underdeveloped party on dore alley  the week
before comdex....

The two miliseconds you weren't staring at my tits, you took time to
tell me how smart and 'cool' you are, because you had to go to comdex.
Of course, you explicitly told me that i wouldn't understand what it is
that you do - apparently you're some kind of tech person or something?
hmmmmm - nope - don't know anything about technology...

isn't that right *all who know better*?

Oh - you don't remember me?  I was the woman who was waiting and waiting
and waiting outside one of two bathrooms while you changed your clothes
- i said something like 'i promise we don't care what you look like', as
the folks waiting in line got more restless...

 And you walked up to me and said, and I quote "what do I care, I
already got your money"

<pfffth>  yeah, you got my money - once.  The door goons were rude, the
owners of the space even got worked up, and I almost couldn't leave
because some pimply-faced *jerk* wouldn't let me go - apparently it was
a fire hazard for me to leave with my friend who will most likely never
go to another rave, because she had such a horrific time.

SO there you have it  - either you're a totall boob all the time, or you
had a bad night.  I'm thinkin' you're probably a nice guy, and you don't
really have a preoccupation with pierced nipples to the extent that the
rest of a woman disappears, and it's a really good thing that i give
people more than one chance.

but you still only get my money once

Kate


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 21:26:22 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:25:33 EST
To: JustaK1D@aol.com, dreamer@ziplink.net, lara@vibe.org
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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Hey guys I have to admit something and I guess I just want to know if this
makes me a bad person....Just like Lara...I to have gone to a "bad vibe party"
and had a great time by myself dancing my ass off.....and I didn't let the
"bad vibe evening" ruin my night.....is that bad??????????
                                           <3*MushyB!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 21:45:25 1998
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:38:55 -0800
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I don't get it :)   What's the point to all this silly slamming.   I was at toon
town, and I saw Lara several times that night.  And Every time I saw her, even the
times I didn't come over and say HI, She was Creating her own Vibe.... Smiling,
and Dancing, and Having a Great time.     There are at least Two Types of Vibes at
a Party..... Individual, and Cumulative.
    It is no great mystery that you can have a great time at a party, despite the
overall lower vibe of the event.  When I am having a good time at a party, despite
the vibe, be it overwhelming, or flat, I don't care about it, because I am too
wrapped up in my own space.  And I believe many people are the same way.  We each
create our own vibe, and that adds to the cumulative vibe of the event.
    I saw Lara That night, and not only did she seem like she was having a great
time at the party, but everyone AROUND HER was having a great time, because they
were feeding of her vibe.

Keep it Real
Vlad

Just a K1D wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-05 22:31:17 EST, dreamer@ziplink.net writes:
>
>
>   You say:  I must say I'm curious too... particularly why someone would have
>  "vibe" as part of her email address, yet apparently believe the vibe at a
>  party makes no difference!
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Ms. K1dd:  Are you stoopid? Orson gave her the account.  If you had been
> around earlier in LIFE you would have known that.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=
>  You say:  I'm not saying your attitude is "bad," Lara, I just find it very
>  hard to relate to.  It's hard for me to understand how someone could really
>  dig the rave scene but not care about the vibe, because for me rave and
>  vibe are synonomous.  I don't care if the music is the best I've ever heard
>  -- with vibe, it's a rave; without vibe, it's just a party with great dance
>  music.
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Ms. K1dd:  You never want to go to a party just to hear the music?  She is a
> JUNGLIST, music is of the utmost, friends and "vibe" are just a plus.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=
>  You say:  If vibe doesn't matter to you, would you be just as happy cruising
>  up and down the boulevard with a bunch of cool jock/cheerleader types as
>  you would be at a party, as long as you had a terrific car stereo and your
>  favorite jungle mix tapes?
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Ms. K1dd:  What is wrong with jocks and cheerleaders?  I have taken the
> sweetest cheerleader to aprties and she had a fun time, loved it in fact. You
> know, you need to get to know epopel before you judge them.  And honey, sorry,
> but you CANNOT do I need to repeat that? dance in a car, and no system in a
> car is the same as that at a party.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=
>   You say:  Might you also say it doesn't matter who you're eating dinner with
>  as long as the food is good?
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Ms. K1dd:  HELL YEAH!!! it's all about good grubbin.
>
> So, now what I gotta say is, you suck.  You say you  weren't gonna talk shit
> about one of my closest freinds?  Well, I better see a woops comin from my
> screen next time I see your name.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ms. K1dd




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 21:47:30 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is going on in the scene?
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-06-98 13:17

Katie's letter was one of the more enjoyable ones I've read all day...way to be
fierce miss thing...you go girl...I think I am relatively intuitive when I'm
out and I must say that I see less ogling from women that I do from men...not
saying I've never flat out stared at a woman but I draw the line on more than a
glance at her breasts...I'm a beast but try to remain at the very least rather
polite about it...might have to quit lookin' all together as Katie could be
around and I wouldn't want to have to resort to that second chance...hah!...you
only have one opportunity to make a first impression...

aloha,
moki
p.s. what's the most people you've seen in a group hug?...just wondering...


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come *on*, Macadio.  You're completely in this for the money! -  at
least that's the distinct impression I got at your overcrowded,
obnoxiously overpriced, underdeveloped party on dore alley  the week
before comdex....

The two miliseconds you weren't staring at my tits, you took time to
tell me how smart and 'cool' you are, because you had to go to comdex.
Of course, you explicitly told me that i wouldn't understand what it is
that you do - apparently you're some kind of tech person or something?
hmmmmm - nope - don't know anything about technology...

isn't that right *all who know better*?

Oh - you don't remember me?  I was the woman who was waiting and waiting
and waiting outside one of two bathrooms while you changed your clothes
- i said something like 'i promise we don't care what you look like', as
the folks waiting in line got more restless...

 And you walked up to me and said, and I quote "what do I care, I
already got your money"

<pfffth>  yeah, you got my money - once.  The door goons were rude, the
owners of the space even got worked up, and I almost couldn't leave
because some pimply-faced *jerk* wouldn't let me go - apparently it was
a fire hazard for me to leave with my friend who will most likely never
go to another rave, because she had such a horrific time.

SO there you have it  - either you're a totall boob all the time, or you
had a bad night.  I'm thinkin' you're probably a nice guy, and you don't
really have a preoccupation with pierced nipples to the extent that the
rest of a woman disappears, and it's a really good thing that i give
people more than one chance.

but you still only get my money once

Kate


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 21:48:02 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Matthew Wietzke <xpress@popstar.com>
Subject: No pay at Origin, well...
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 m>
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In regards to DJ's not getting paid.  Well with my experience and from
others that I know, if you are a DJ this will happen sometimes.  If you are
a DJ with some clout, ASK FOR THE MONEY UP FRONT.  I know at a recent party
that I played at, Barry Weaver was prepaid $600 for a set that he didn't
even play because the party got broken up.  A lot of the big name DJ's can
get deposits or prepayment upfront so that they are gauranteed to get paid.
 If the DJ's are already at the party and they get prepaid, I doubt that
the DJ will back out of playing.

This is the safest way to go about it when you are an established DJ and
this ensures that you don't get screwed from the promoters.  And I know
that a lot of times you will get your money up front since promoters don't
want a DJ to back out at the last minute because no one will cover for the
2 hours that you were scheduled to play.

I really feel for Johnny Fiasco and the others that didn't get paid since a
lot of talent was at this party and Johnny could have played at numerous
other New Year's parties that night.  He put a lot into his set and should
have gotten what he deserved.  

As for Mark Farina, a lot of the reason that he didn't play the 5 hour set
and he kept on turning the sound system off was because the security kept
on telling him to turn down the music.  The security went as far as turning
off the outside speakers and only keeping the monitors on to keep down the
music level!  When I was was chatting with him, he told me that the reason
that he was getting pissed off (as I would too) was because he was putting
so much effort into his set and it could only be heard by the people
standing up front by the monitors.


At 01:33 AM 1/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>my intention wasn't to back NOMAD and say that they are right for not
>paying the DJ's, I agree this is wrong.
>my intention was to merely say that hey, it happens all the time and it
>sucks.
>:) i truly hope the Dj's get paid. it sucks how shit like this happens,
>when in reality, without the dj's we wouldn't have the music to shake our
>booties, we'd just have kidz wandering around day-glo warehouses listening
>to a tape. on drugs. or somethin.
>anyway, i've seen and heard and observed how much heart soul and effort
>some of these dj's put into their skills, and it saddens me to see them
>get jocked. 
>peace out
>lamer of the year:)
>
>On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
>



 ______  ___        _____ _____ ______                   
 ___   |/  /______ ___  /___  /____  /_ _____ ___      __
 __  /|_/ / _  __ `/_  __/_  __/__  __ \_  _ \__ | /| / /
 _  /  / /  / /_/ / / /_  / /_  _  / / //  __/__ |/ |/ / 
 /_/  /_/   \__,_/  \__/  \__/  /_/ /_/ \___/ ____/|__/  
                                                         
 
 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 21:58:04 1998
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Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 14:08:35 -0700
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floam. hours of fun and amusement. you have to deal with soapy smelling 
hands afterwards tho

a close second is the vibrator bug. you know the purple and white bug 
with pink knobby feet and you press it's nose to make it run. someone had 
one at cloudfactory. where do you get them out here anyway? does anyone 
know?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 22:02:08 1998
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:59:36 -0800
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From: Ian <root@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: What is going on in the scene?
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That is the one thing I kept thinking to myself concerning the Treasure
Island get2gether.

At $35 at the door and what $20 presale?  They had to make some money.
I guess the location was expesive?

Then again its the responsibility of the promoters to balance their budget
on the appropiate things.  Safe Enviroment <security & site> and Scene
<DJ's, lighting> and Promotion.

But I do have to say thank you to the SF crowd for giving me the last
couple years of great scenes.  Only ever had 2 or 3 bummer events out of
all of them.
I say thats a great success rate.

Hopefully we can get Sac up to par in the next year.
Since I run into new people that live within blocks of me everytime I hit SF.


Ian


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 22:16:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:13:49 -0800 (PST)
From: SCiEnCe <djscience@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Blues
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---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> SCiEnCe wrote:
> > 
> > Sorry for the rant, but...
> > 
> > ...I HATE this time of year. There are virtually NO records coming
out
> > right now and it's been this way for almost a month.
> > 
> > (scrambles for his methadone)
> > 
> > -Science
> 
> 
> hey...why not be creative and make your own music.
> I mean if a dj is worth hundreds of dollars an hour then
> they should have some musical talent dont you think  =)

There's an assumption here, Duane, that dj'ing isn't an expression of
musical talent in its own right. Whether you meant it or not, I don't
know, but I think the point is that many of the abilities that make
one a great musician help dj'ing...however there are a number of
characteristics that dj's possess that are exclusive of 'making music'.

Anyways, I'd make music if a) I had the funds to invest in a studio,
or b) I lived in the city where I had access to a studio.

Just because one wants to, doesn't mean one can.

-Science


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 22:26:10 1998
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From: "U.A.A." <anarchy@galaxy.galstar.com>
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Subject: NRR: Very Important Please Read This
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:26:00 -0600 (CST)
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I am not sure how many of you are already aware but I thought I would inform as
many people as I can.

Although I don't aree with the FCC, I have even swallowed my pride and have sent
an email expressing my concern.  Please read more below and check out the URL
as well.  This isn't a joke or hoax.

 
 http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html
 
There is a very important matter currently under review by the FCC. Your
local telephone company has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute
charges for your internet service. They contend that your usage has or will
hinder the operation of the telephone network. It is my belief that internet
usage will diminish if users were required to pay additional per minute
charges. The FCC has created an email box for your comments, responses must be
received by February 13, 1998. Send your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them
what you think. Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to
sneak it in just under the wire for litiagation. Let everyone you know hear
this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of. 

FCC Email----->   isp@fcc.gov 

For all of you who are unaware who the internet currently works its pretty 
simple.  Your ISP has leased a connection to whomever's Internet Network be it
Sprint MCI or AT&T .. etc.  Not only do they pay the carrier they also have to
pay a monthly service fee to the local telephone company for a link up.  I think
the  current rate for a T1 in santa clara county is around $1200 a month with
an additional $250-400 (depending on milage) a month going to Pac Bell.  There
are a lot of other fees associated with it as well. The point is that the 
portion of Pac Bell's network that gets used goes from whereever your ISP is to 
the nearest Carrier junction. Then your ISP pays the local carrier for all of 
the dialup access lines be it analog, isdn, or what not.
You then have to use a analog/ISDN/ or whatever you use to connect to your ISP
junction of the Internet carrier.  Not only that but you yourself are paying foryou local line as well.  The Phone companies are trying to get paid twice for
not doing anything. If the phone companies aren't making enough money to feel
satisfied they should look internally to make some changes and not force
the consumer who is already paying enough to cover the costs associated with
internet service, to eat those costs.

Please send the FCC email and express you opinion on the matter.

--Herb



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 22:28:08 1998
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Subject: is static active again?
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Liquid has finished it's revonations right?
I definitely want to go tonight if that is the case?
Has anyone seen the new liquid- is it bigger or just
redecorated?

PJF







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 22:36:34 1998
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From: Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com>
Subject: BSP: Static
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At 02:20 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Liquid has finished it's revonations right?
>I definitely want to go tonight if that is the case?
>Has anyone seen the new liquid- is it bigger or just
>redecorated?
>

Hey, what a perfect moment for a BSP ;)

Liquid is back in full effect.  I haven't seen the renovations myself, so
I'm not sure exactly what they did.  I guess we'll see tonight...

Anyhow, we've just confirmed a very special guest tonight: Tim Taylor,
founder of Missile Records UK.  Playing with him will be resident djs Re
Ach and Quantum23.

Hope to see you there!

S T A T I C 
T u e s d a y s
w/ resident djs sutekh, bre ad, quantum23, re ach
2925 16th St. at South Van Ness
21+ $2  10p-2a

-Seth
|||| d j . s u t e k h 
|||| b e l i e f - s y s t e m s  
|||| o a k l a n d . c a . u s a
|||| http://www.belief-systems.com
|||| http://www.nodeone.com/static
|||| http://oms1.berkeley.edu/KALX

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 22:37:44 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Subject: hugging bugs <"}}}><
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Steven_Allas wrote:

> p.s. what's the most people you've seen in a group hug?...just wondering...

Well when i was a kid we used to see how many we could cram
into a bug (vw). You know back then it wasnt ok for guys to hug each
other so they had to find creative ways to be intimate. So
they did things like craming 50 people into a bug. A group bug
perhaps was the origin of the group hug of today. 

To celebrate the new release of a new vw bug yesterday,
perhaps we should organize a party to see how many we can 
squeeze into a bug. Actually we can have a party in each 
city around the world and have a competition. Also as part
of the contest we can see which city can create the biggest
group hug. Who knows, maybe the whole world will hug itself
oneday....tickets $35 or $34.95 if you have a good vibe.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 22:45:28 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: "U.A.A." <anarchy@galaxy.galstar.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: Very Important Please Read This
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, U.A.A. wrote:

>  http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html
>  
> There is a very important matter currently under review by the FCC. 

Uhh, you are off by oh, about a year. From their web site:

"The final deadline for comments on the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking is
Friday, February 14, 1997. "
		     ^^^^^
This is long over....

				Black Adder


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 22:49:39 1998
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Subject: DOH!!! NRR
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MY bad.... you know iwas reading it and thinking that it was a typo seeing
how it was just new years and all oh well... hehe 

-Herb


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 23:02:20 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: What is going on in the scene?
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Well I see you took the time to post this to the list
I am sorry that you felt my party was Very over
priced. But that does happen when you have 3
different sound systems in 3 different rooms 3
different sound guys to pay 10-15 DJ's to pay 3
different light guys to pay etc.. Yes I did make
money I am not going to lie and say I did not but I
did not make Thousands and if you really knew me then
you would know I am not in this for money you can ask
any promoter on this list that has booked/worked or
knows me that I have played many parties for free
where people or promoters have gotten paid at. I have
volunteer my small and meager sound system many times
for free etc.. If I was looking at your tits it is
probably cause they were in my face. If you feel that
upset about it then I will give you back your $15 you
paid for a party with certain DJ's sound Etc that was
promised and that was what was delivered. Now it
terms of over crowding etc. I was bummed about that
but at the same time (which is no excuse) but I had
several partners that were helping me throw that
party is was not me solely and I could not control a
crowd of people that were already there. I am sorry
if you had a bad experience but at that time of the
party were weren't bitching or else I would have gave
you back your money and you could have left. You made
the decision to stay. If you wish to discuss this
issue more lets take it off the list and I will
straighten this matter with you.Quick question as
well have you ever done a party? do you know how much
it costs? for you to assume that the price was to
high means you obviously have never thrown your own
party with your own hard earned money now have you? 

Macadio








---Katie Zitterbart <marilyn@best.com> wrote:
>
> come *on*, Macadio.  You're completely in this for
the money! -  at
> least that's the distinct impression I got at your
overcrowded,
> obnoxiously overpriced, underdeveloped party on
dore alley  the week
> before comdex....
> 
> The two miliseconds you weren't staring at my tits,
you took time to
> tell me how smart and 'cool' you are, because you
had to go to comdex.
> Of course, you explicitly told me that i wouldn't
understand what it is
> that you do - apparently you're some kind of tech
person or something?
> hmmmmm - nope - don't know anything about
technology...
> 
> isn't that right *all who know better*?
> 
> Oh - you don't remember me?  I was the woman who
was waiting and waiting
> and waiting outside one of two bathrooms while you
changed your clothes
> - i said something like 'i promise we don't care
what you look like', as
> the folks waiting in line got more restless...
> 
>  And you walked up to me and said, and I quote
"what do I care, I
> already got your money"
> 
> <pfffth>  yeah, you got my money - once.  The door
goons were rude, the
> owners of the space even got worked up, and I
almost couldn't leave
> because some pimply-faced *jerk* wouldn't let me go
- apparently it was
> a fire hazard for me to leave with my friend who
will most likely never
> go to another rave, because she had such a horrific
time.
> 
> SO there you have it  - either you're a totall boob
all the time, or you
> had a bad night.  I'm thinkin' you're probably a
nice guy, and you don't
> really have a preoccupation with pierced nipples to
the extent that the
> rest of a woman disappears, and it's a really good
thing that i give
> people more than one chance.
> 
> but you still only get my money once
> 
> Kate
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 23:07:39 1998
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Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: Still Suck in 1998
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At 01:14 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Wayne D. Correia wrote:
>At 12:06 PM -0800 1/6/98, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>>Wayne, Oliver Stone just called.  Can you meet for lunch?
>
>Why, did he see Nomad near the book depository on New Years Eve? :-)

No, he thinks Mufid may have been involved in the assassination of Sonny Bono.

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 23:35:16 1998
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Better late then never, way to be on the ball! =) Maybe we should vote for a new g0vern0r tooo. I've never liked pete w. 

Billabong

<blkadder@value.net> wrote on Tuesday January 6, 1998 at  2:45pm:
>On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, U.A.A. wrote:
>
>>  http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html
>>  
>> There is a very important matter currently under review by the FCC. 
>
>Uhh, you are off by oh, about a year. From their web site:
>
>"The final deadline for comments on the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking is
>Friday, February 14, 1997. "
>     ^^^^^
>This is long over....
>
>Black Adder


------------------------------------------------------
| Your boss can read your Email.  Is this what you want?
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000001 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 23:39:34 1998
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macadio wrote:

> If I was looking at your tits it is
> probably cause they were in my face.

you've just downgraded yourself to asshole.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 06 23:45:52 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:13:37 -0800
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From: "Wayne D. Correia" <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: Still Suck in 1998
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At 3:02 PM -0800 1/6/98, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>At 01:14 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Wayne D. Correia wrote:
>>At 12:06 PM -0800 1/6/98, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>>>Wayne, Oliver Stone just called.  Can you meet for lunch?
>>
>>Why, did he see Nomad near the book depository on New Years Eve? :-)
>
>No, he thinks Mufid may have been involved in the assassination of Sonny Bono.

Was there a deli up there at Heavenly Valley? :-)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 00:05:45 1998
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Brian Behlendorf wrote:
 
> No, he thinks Mufid may have been involved in the assassination of Sonny Bono.
> 
>         Brian


Seems there is now evidence to support this theory. Tests have shown
traces of chemicals in the sap of the trees that killed bono and kennedy.
It is unclear whether these chemicals were injected by cubans seeking 
revenge or if it was because trees are tired of politicians abuse of
the environment. There is evidence to suggest that the trees are luring
politicians off the path and causing them to smash into them. There
were reports of the tree that killed bono singing "i got you babe"

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 00:24:15 1998
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From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: BSP:  Ground Score Bookings & Promotions
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A new service for all:  Ground Score  @ 415.332.5800 X 797

I operate Ground Score in SF.  At this time we represent the following
turntablists:

Flux - BASS kru
Rinse - BASS kru
Star Eyes - BASS kru
MC Phulid - BASS kru
UFO - Phunckateck
Sage - Phunckateck
Felix the Dog - Black Diamond
Tomas - Umoja Soundsystem
Rebel-lion - Ground Score

Please call the hotline for information on booking any of the above talent.
Additions or deletions to the roster are done at the end of each month.  

Respect,
dmarie.





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 00:50:38 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:49:40 EST
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Subject: Commentary on VIBE!
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In a message dated 98-01-06 16:46:33 EST, you write:

<< When I am having a good time at a party, despite
 the vibe, be it overwhelming, or flat, I don't care about it, because I am
too
 wrapped up in my own space.  And I believe many people are the same way.  We
each
 create our own vibe, and that adds to the cumulative vibe of the event. >>

(rayvonie@ix.netcom.com)

I completely agree. The overall presiding vibe taking place when you walk into
a party definitely has an impact on how you'll feel about the mood of the
party. Even though the mood might be stale or snotty or whatever, if you just
have a positive outlook and the motivation to change the overall feeling of
the party for yourself and others, you'll probably have a better time.

If you walk into a room and no one is dancing, and you feel like it, you
should just set forth and BUST. That will probably invite others to dance, and
little by little, a vibe is born...

I think that instead of bitching about the lack of vibe at a party (which
actually makes the mood worse), people should help eliminate that negativity
and just try to contribute their own positivity and good feeling in any way
they can.

...Now everyone take a deep breath from all the drama...

=O aaahhhhhh........

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 01:19:07 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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>aloha,
>moki
>p.s. what's the most people you've seen in a group hug?...just 
wondering...
>
>
hmmm.. well at a party back in LA... a free outdoor RTD party at the 
federal building.. there was this huge ginourmous group hug... at least 
150+ people......
but i cant estimate very well.....
oh well.....
bye bye 
Philip
disordr

p.s. all you davis ravers.. we should start a mini-mailing list...
ok.. peace




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 01:30:52 1998
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 18:29:01
From: <pokeyp@usa.net>
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In response to whether the criticism of before relates to the other 
promoters...Not as heavily, but they ain't helping anybody cross the 
streets with their groceries either.

pokey



Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 01:47:21 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 17:47:16 PST
From: tschwarz@sunrise.scu.edu (Thomas Schwarz)
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: come-unity tomorrow???
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Hi all,

I was out of town for the last weeks and I would like to
know if there's a come-unity tomorrow.
The reason why I'm not sure is that I think they did a 
come-unity party on new-year's eve. Thus, I don't know 
if they also do the 'regular' come-unity this wednesday. 
Does anybody know???
Thanx,
Thomas 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 01:47:37 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:46:35 -0800 (PST)
From: aminita <aminita@linex.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Toon Town Review by Ashley
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Ashley wrote:

Granted there weren't a lot of people  there the set up was great. I
was working at the Housewares booth, and on my breaks I couldn't decide
which room I wanted to dance in!! The idjut boys, steve loria, pier, and
onionz ROCKED!!! and it was nice having the hometown favorites solar and
galen there, who played lot's of eightys favs. The vibe was good but
everyone was high so I didn't seem to meet very many people who were sober
enough to hold a decent conversation. But the music was BOMB and if you
love to dance to house you missed a great party and that is all i have to
say.



Now for shira's commentary.....
   just got back from South Africa and I was so impressed with the scene
over there.
But I will write specifically about that later.

aminita.....aka shira

sounds like too much drama went down over here.

	




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 01:57:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:59:42 -0800
To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
Cc: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 9:25 AM -0500 1/5/98, lara at vibe.org wrote:
>Just to let you know,
>alot of times parties don't break even
>and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment providers.

Interesting.  I threw six parties, one broke even, everyone got paid.
Moral of the story honor and your word are everything OR "Don't do parties
unless you can afford to lose money!".

I know some DJ's wouldn't have left until they got the green duckets.

>I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
>emptyhanded when promised a fee.

They should not have done that.  It perpetuates dishonesty and sob stories.
If someone agress to pay you x dollars, and you do your end of the bargain
by performing, there is no reason NOt to expect x dollars.  That is why
bigger DJ's have thier own crew with them to, er, enforce certain
agreements.

>Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.

Why did that happen?  If I was a DJ playing at that, I would go for
someone's throat.  Anyway this is just plain wrong and bad.  People should
do what they promise.  There really is no excuse.


>There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN and
>WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money.

A verbal agreement is a contract.

> It sucks dick, yeah,
>but that's the way it is I guess.

It may be that way for some parties when people allow themselves to be
gaffled.  How could anyone accept a check after seeing all that green
flowing.

> Some DJ's don't mind as they just enjoy
>playing out.

Dig, but if they agreed to get paid they should get thiers with great
vigor.  There is no need not to pay someone in a timely fashion.

>Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)

Me too.  The fool is the person who works with a crew that has such a
dubious reputation.  Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shmae on me.
I guess the Bay Area has now cuahgt up to LA parties of the past when it
comes to the sleeze factor.

>peace
>
>lara

Peace,
John



"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 02:20:36 1998
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 18:15:07 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Harmony <ascend@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Discovery this Friday! (bsp)
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Hello Sfraves!

Happy 1998!!! I hope everyone had a safe and fun new years! 

This Friday Jan 9th, The Harmonics Crew is proud to present the following...

***DISCOVERY***

With Djs:

URN
Greg Sandler  = ) 
Ryan Wilber
Eric Brown

+ Guest

9pm - 2am  21 +

$4 cover

@ 625 Fifth St in Santa Rosa Ca (just 45-60 min from SF... It's a quick
drive trust me ; )

Take the Downtown Santa Rosa exit off of 101 north. Go right at the light
(that is Third st). Then take a left at E st. then go left at Fifth and
your there!!!

***Also... Mention this post and get %10 off all music, including cds,
tapes, and vinyl @ Harmonics!!! (lots of good stuff!!!)

Harmonics is located @ 1067 Fourth St. Santa Rosa. Call us at
(707)571-8747. Hope to see some of you up here in Santa Rosa this weekend!

Peace and love,

Greg = )

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 02:22:49 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:20:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: SCiEnCe <djscience@rocketmail.com>
cc: Sharif Torpis <storpis@crl.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: DJ Blues
In-Reply-To: <19980106193233.235.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com>
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for the junglists out there...
mickey finn and darren jay are coming out on the 15th!!
WOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, SCiEnCe wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---Sharif Torpis <storpis@crl.com> wrote:
> >
> > > ...I HATE this time of year. There are virtually NO records coming
> out
> > > right now and it's been this way for almost a month. 
> > 
> > Propellerheads long player is due for domestic release any day now
> .. woohoo!
> > 
> > On a related note, it seems Kraftwerk will be in town ~April ...
> double woohoo!
> 
> Well it seems that it isn't such a problematic time for domestics as
> much as British imports. The distributers in the UK take 2 big
> holidays a year- 1 from july to the end of august, and one for the end
> of the year (that usually covers all of december). Seeing as 99% of
> all drum'n bass comes out of the UK, it makes it a somber time for the
> humble record buyer. 
> 
> -peace
> 
> Science
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 02:28:48 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:24:23 EST
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Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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Hello San Fran

My name is Capt C and im with Stric 9 prodctions. I just wanted to put in my
two cents in on this conversation. A DJ goes in to a party knowing fully that
if he is not good he is not going to attract a big crowd, and there for he is
not going to get paid. Big name DJs charge up to 1200.00 for a set at a party.
Knowing that they might not be paid in full they charge a deposit of up to and
sometimes more than half. Getting a big name means going through a manager and
requires more work, how ever there is less risk. Alot of promoters dont even
break even or come up way short by the end of the party. If a DJ is there and
he played on good faith well than of course he is going to be on the loosing
end as well. It is not easy to make money in the underground scene, and money
is not what it is all about. So lighten up there are no gaurantees, and
promises will certainly never amount to much, esspecially in the underground
scene. 
Anyways I look forward to partying in San Fran again

P*L*U*R
Capt C
 <A HREF="http://www.users.cts.com/king/p/pala/index.htm">The General's Room
</A> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 02:41:18 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:41:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
cc: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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  when I had my hair *reaallyy short* I guess like bald..people used to
see my head as there favorite rave toy...;)...
                          -Reagan




On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Noah Apodaca wrote:

> 
> My personal favorite rave toy is vibrating Mr. Potatohead.  Actually any 
> kind of Mr. Potatohead product is good if you ask me, but the vibrating 
> one is fun to play with when you're around kids on E.   :)
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 02:48:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:48:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: shimmer <shimmer@concentric.net>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
In-Reply-To: <199801062157.QAA03619@mcfeely.concentric.net>
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  Hon-- do you mean Foam?!...if not then what's floam?...I know what
you're talking about in regards to that bug vibrator..uh..I mean vibrating
bug;)...I have one...you can probaly get one at a new age store/ toy
store??...I'll be in touch soon..been busy w/ work....
                                 -Reagan




On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, shimmer wrote:

> floam. hours of fun and amusement. you have to deal with soapy smelling 
> hands afterwards tho
> 
> a close second is the vibrator bug. you know the purple and white bug 
> with pink knobby feet and you press it's nose to make it run. someone had 
> one at cloudfactory. where do you get them out here anyway? does anyone 
> know?
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 02:50:32 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:50:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Katie Zitterbart <marilyn@best.com>
cc: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is going on in the scene?
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  Damn....!



On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Katie Zitterbart wrote:

> macadio wrote:
> 
> > If I was looking at your tits it is
> > probably cause they were in my face.
> 
> you've just downgraded yourself to asshole.
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 02:52:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:52:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Break Dancer <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org, Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
Subject: Re: BiGgEsT GrOuP HuG
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  Biggest group hug.....?   does anyone remember that F&F party with the
double rainbows in the a.m.?.....-Reagan




On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Break Dancer wrote:

> 
> >aloha,
> >moki
> >p.s. what's the most people you've seen in a group hug?...just 
> wondering...
> >
> >
> hmmm.. well at a party back in LA... a free outdoor RTD party at the 
> federal building.. there was this huge ginourmous group hug... at least 
> 150+ people......
> but i cant estimate very well.....
> oh well.....
> bye bye 
> Philip
> disordr
> 
> p.s. all you davis ravers.. we should start a mini-mailing list...
> ok.. peace
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 03:00:52 1998
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To: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
cc: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>,
  "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Reagan Reid wrote:

> 
>   when I had my hair *reaallyy short* I guess like bald..people used to
> see my head as there favorite rave toy...;)...
>                           -Reagan
> 

Um... I try to never "me too" on this list... but Reagan's head is pretty
damn cool.

And yes Noah, I might even say it's a little better than a vibrating Mr.
Potatohead... but for my weird reasons (noted below).  So my vote goes
with Reagan's head.

In fact, one thing that tends to bum me out is you'll get these people
that are so far out on thier little adventurE, and people seem to want to
give them an inanimate object... I like pets, or just some really down to
earth friends.  They aren't toys, they aren't diversions... they're the
real thing.

I just remember the first time E really rocked my world... this girl I
don't know (the first time I did E, I didn't know ANYBODY up here in the
scene) looks over and hands me an Elmo (a plain old-skool pre-"tickle me"
model). It was cozy and all, but didn't really cut it... after a while, I
thought about Jim Henson, and how he died and all.  Needless to say, this
was kinda buzzkill... thinking about this weird vessel onto which I
imprint emotions because of it's similarity to other things... when in
fact it's just cloth and fur and stuffing and two plastic balls created to
be a weak Grover ripoff (but red and fatter).

I really couldn't deal any more so I went and did something I'd never done
before at a party... danced all night like it was the only thing that
made sense anymore.

Peace,
AndyW


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 03:18:06 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: what Lara said 'bout the VIBE
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=lara+40vibe+2Eorg+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of 01-06-98 21:23

Thanks Lara.  It seems from all the posts that you truly understand the
importance of staying positive if you're happy with yourself.  I mean how do we
know who we really affect right?  Maybe someone will go away with a different
view of the scene just because he/she sees others having a great time.  If I'm
somewhere new, I make it a point to meet people in a non-intrusive manner, see
where they're coming from.  I bring my positive energy and try to see if we can
all LIFT da f%$!@ off this earth for a few hours through our collective choice
to gather and get away from the BS of our outside lives.  One of the only real
choices you have in life is your attitude.  I've had friends that were there
one day and gone the next, like gone forever.  Why would I want to bring drama
and neg s#%$ to a rave and/or party.  Find your groove and runaway...I swear
the ride gets better every time...peace...

aloha,
moki


---- Included Message ----

Received: 01-06-98 19:22                         Sent: 01-06-98 21:23 
From: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=lara+40vibe+2Eorg+3B@apollogrp.edu
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Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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that's a fuckin RAD story.
props to gettin your groove on in even theleast groovalicious places
possible!
peace
lara

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:

> In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-06-98 01:35
> 
> all this talk about the vibe reminds me of an incident when I was at school in
> Texas...decided to date this sorority girl 'cause she was crip...you know,
> blonde, blue eyed southern gal...she invited me over to her home in Houston's
> River Oaks area (tres poshee)...party for her cousin' who was home from
> abroad...seems one of the maids (she was black, oh what a surprise) had a
> nephew who was a dj and was in town passing through on his way back to
> Chicago...so he was asked to spin some music at the party later in the evening
> after the quartet was done...well, I went to this cavernous mansion to chill
> and get to know my date better...the food was gourmet out da ass and the drinks
> were flowin'...I cut through the kitchen and I saw the help was eating their
> dinner since they didn't have enough time earlier to sit down...someone saw me
> lookin' and told me not to be shy so I dug in...mash potatoes, fried chicken.
> green beans, corn bread, breaded catfish, you name it...damn if I didn't stuff
> myself...the evening drags on in the main room with the boring chit-chat and
> various lame scenarios...haven't seen you in a while we should meet at the
> club, etc., but hey I'm not judging right...then I hear the faint bassline of a
> groovy beat...I excuse myself and follow the music to a corner of what I assume
> is the living room right by the glass door to the pool area...saw this kid
> goin' through some records so I asked him to take me on a ride just jokin' like
> and he says he don't know if these people might freak or somethin'...but I said
> the hell with it, he's here anyway...he smiles and it's on...thank god for Bose
> speakers...so he's playing trax and it's just off the hook...he's got his food
> behind the table by the record crates and we're snackin', listenin', dancin' my
> boodie off...and my point is, the location sucked, the people sucked (talk
> about fake), the vibe was non-existent...but I ate some tasty grinds and got my
> perpetual groove in motion...I travelled that night with the music and got fed
> both body and soul...so am I an uncouth non-connoiseur of parties since all the
> ingredients sure weren't there?...I mean, I guess I'm just a simpleton since
> slammin' music and good food were enough for me right?...I'm eatin' with my
> hands and I'm the only one dancing, literally...how embarrassing?...I don't
> give a flyin' rat's ass!...no one can tell me there wasn't vibe there, know
> why?...I wasn't alone!...it only takes two and that's where it starts...I take
> it back to where I'm from and he takes it back from where he's from...it speads
> see?...but I guess I'm just an unsophisticated kind of kid...
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 03:58:12 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-06-98 21:24

I have to disagree with the comments of Cpt C...regardless of whether the party
did well...maybe it's Doc Martin spinning in NYC and there's a blizzard, only a
couple of hundred people show up...you tellin' me you ain't gonna pay the man
cause he didn't draw the people he was supposed to?...he played his set, you
got to pay him...same thing if it was Bukem, Cox, Farina,
whoever...professional athletes get paid regardless if the fans come to the
games...the operative word is professional which is, for the sake of argument,
let's say all DJ's are pros...the risk is on the side of the people throwing
the party, not the other way around...

A DJ goes in to a party knowing fully that if he is not good he is not going to
attract a big crowd, and there for he is not going to get paid. Big name DJs
charge up to 1200.00 for a set at a party. Knowing that they might not be paid
in full they charge a deposit of up to and sometimes more than half. Getting a
big name means going through a manager and requires more work, how ever there
is less risk. Alot of promoters dont even break even or come up way short by
the end of the party. If a DJ is there and he played on good faith well than of
course he is going to be on the loosing end as well. It is not easy to make
money in the underground scene, and money is not what it is all about. So
lighten up there are no gaurantees, and promises will certainly never amount to
much, esspecially in the underground scene. 
Anyways I look forward to partying in San Fran again


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 04:16:53 1998
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In-Reply-To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
        "Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?" (Jan  6,  5:59pm)
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Much has and much remains to be said about what went down over
the last week.  On the one hand, I benefitted from the postponement of Toon Town
and got to see DJ Pierre at long last.  On the other hand, attendance was way down,
the financial loss was large and it put Martin and his team in the position
of having to cut DJ payments.  That's not good and yes, it should never
happen, but Martin has a good record from what I can tell of
satisfying his obligations, so please consider the context before
drawing any final conclusions.  As I said, much of the story remains to be told.

The shame of it is quite a few of the DJs lost twice -- once for giving up other gigs
for New Year's (including well-paying out of town dates), and second for losing
out on the follow-up.  The final loss was having excellent sound and lights and
playing for rooms full of people who by and large were paying no
attention whatsoever to the music being played.

More thoughts on this and other things shortly . . 

phred

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 04:24:21 1998
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Brownosing and coddling have never lead me anywhere, that's why I speak from
the heart. Your criticism was appreciated. 8)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 04:25:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:25:15 EST
To: storpis@crl.com, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org, lara@vibe.org
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Subject: Re:  Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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Well put! 8) MODA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 04:52:48 1998
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To: mira@wellsfargo.com, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org, Vortexbrad@aol.com,
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Subject: Re:  RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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The promoters in question do not own the space, they lease it. 8) MODA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 05:20:41 1998
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 21:19:29 -0800
From: "Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net>
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To: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
CC: shimmer <shimmer@concentric.net>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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They used to have the vibrating bugs at Walmart. I got a blue/green/black one
last year there! Luv it! Favorite rave toy next to a Jibba Jabba, and these
koool flourescent rubber balls that flash when you bounce them. (Toys R Us fer
both of 'em!)

Bruce
Square One

Reagan Reid wrote:

>   Hon-- do you mean Foam?!...if not then what's floam?...I know what
> you're talking about in regards to that bug vibrator..uh..I mean vibrating
> bug;)...I have one...you can probaly get one at a new age store/ toy
> store??...I'll be in touch soon..been busy w/ work....
>                                  -Reagan
>
> On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, shimmer wrote:
>
> > floam. hours of fun and amusement. you have to deal with soapy smelling
> > hands afterwards tho
> >
> > a close second is the vibrator bug. you know the purple and white bug
> > with pink knobby feet and you press it's nose to make it run. someone had
> > one at cloudfactory. where do you get them out here anyway? does anyone
> > know?
> >




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 05:22:03 1998
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From: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: BSP:  Ground Score Bookings & Promotions
To: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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how do you feel about promoting parties thrown by a religious
organization?  it's tax-free...

-messiah



---Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com> wrote:
>
> A new service for all:  Ground Score  @ 415.332.5800 X 797
> 
> I operate Ground Score in SF.  At this time we represent the following
> turntablists:
> 
> Flux - BASS kru
> Rinse - BASS kru
> Star Eyes - BASS kru
> MC Phulid - BASS kru
> UFO - Phunckateck
> Sage - Phunckateck
> Felix the Dog - Black Diamond
> Tomas - Umoja Soundsystem
> Rebel-lion - Ground Score
> 
> Please call the hotline for information on booking any of the above
talent.
> Additions or deletions to the roster are done at the end of each
month.  
> 
> Respect,
> dmarie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 05:23:02 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org, TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Subject: RE: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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> From: 	TeKnODiVa[SMTP:TeKnODiVa@aol.com]
> 
>         WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is
> the
> coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or
> elsewhere?
> 
a pair of bouncing rubber balls, that have flashing red lights in them
when you bounce them or hit them together

toys that light up are the BEST!

dodger

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 05:27:27 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Northwest Raves" <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Cc: "funkateers" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NYE review - I love SF!!!
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:36:34 -0800
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This will be short 'cause I'm still mass tired after only getting
3 hours sleep, then heading back to school and work!

The Seattle Caravan departed on Tuesday night (coincidentally
at 9:09, and also coincidentally picking up a friend in Eugene at 3:03am)
and arrived on Wednesday. I immediately began to bounce with
excitement about New Years. We headed down to the Cloud Factory
party which was held in Sand City. Even on the drive down I was way
tired since we hadn't slept after driving all night to SF, but I was still
super excited...the highway was beautiful as we drove along the  coast
and I wanted to stop and get out and take pictures....but didn't want to
miss the countdown.....

Sand City seemed appropriately named and Paul and I got out of the car
when suddenly I began to panic. I had left our tickets back in San
Francisco at the place we were staying! Luckily the people at the
door believed us that we had come from Seattle and let us in - they
were really nice.

What a fun party! Unfortunately I was kinda sad and tired so I wasn't
really dancihng much but the people were really nice and the decorations
were cool. Little bits of foam padding were spread in certain areas
which reminded me of playgrounds and interesting quotes/sayings were
taped on the wall. Free fruit and water is always cool, too. It was also
awesome to see all the northwest ravers there (angelika, nathan, steve,
jeff, aron, maybe even more?) The other caravaners had headed off
to treasure island and the goa party so I wasn't expecting to see so many
familiar faces....There were also friendly sfravers too! (hi jeremy :)

One thing I realized though - In spite of how much better SF is - it kind
of sucks for partiers if you're under 21! I called every info line and
checked
everywhere to see what was going on Thursday and Friday nights and
there was basically nothing good for 18+ people.....that's lame! Somehow
I had this idea there was a party every night in SF......then again there's
lots of other fun things to do to make up for the lack of parties.

Saturday night we were considering Toon Town and Sue-Ah but hadn't
decided....we headed over to the Trance and Jungle factory in Berkeley..
The girl working there was super nice and told me about a small party
called Ricochet and even called the info line to write down directions
for us! So we headed over to that and it was really cool...the space kind
of reminded me of the Lish house here in Seattle (i guess people live
there?) Paul, Bri, Joe and I were all enthralled with a jungle dj in the
upper
room (Paul says his name was Re-act?) Does he have any mixtapes?
He was AWESOME! The rest of the djs were good too but that set
especially stands out in my mind. I liked the decorations there too esp.
the tinfoil covering the walls and the do not walk sign (where'd they get
that?!) and it was cool meeting another sfraver (hi michael!)

Overall the trip was really fun - I love seeing the sun and the beach
again after so long and the record stores + parties were great!

If anyone's curious I have some quick cam pictures taken at Joe's
apartment up at http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/pics.html

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 05:33:24 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: STRC9PRO <STRC9PRO@aol.com>
cc: jsl@twenty-hz.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, STRC9PRO wrote:

> Hello San Fran
> 
> My name is Capt C and im with Stric 9 prodctions. I just wanted to put in my
> two cents in on this conversation. A DJ goes in to a party knowing fully that
> if he is not good he is not going to attract a big crowd, and there for he is
> not going to get paid. 

It really depends with which model you treat the party. If it is a
"friends doing it for friends" model a.k.a the underground, then what you
say has some merit. However, if the party is treated as a business(or
looked at from a legal standpoint), as would be the case with Nomad, what
you say is absolute and utter bullshit. Not if, not maybe:

There exists in this wonderous country of ours the concept of "common
law." And under common law we find the contract. A contract is a an
agreement between two or more persons involving mutual promises to do or
not do something. In order for a contract to be legally valid, there has
to be "consideration," that is, that one party has to give something of
value to the other party to make the contract legally binding.  In the
case of a DJ, that consideration takes the form of their spinning. If one
party, the promoter, agrees to pay a specific amount of money to a DJ, for
specific duties, such as spinning a 2 hours set, that DJ is entitled to
that money as long as they perform the duties as stated orally or in
writting. The promoter cannot *legally* arbitrarily  decide to pay the DJ
less if they didn't make the amount they expected.  


> Big name DJs charge up to 1200.00 for a set at a party. Knowing that
> they might not be paid in full they charge a deposit of up to and
> sometimes more than half. Getting a big name means going through a manager and
> requires more work, how ever there is less risk. Alot of promoters dont even
> break even or come up way short by the end of the party. 

Again, this is not an excuse for breaking legally binding contracts. If
the promoter did not make as much as they expected, that is the cost of
doing business, and there is no automatic assumption that that cost is
borne by the performing artists and crew. If the promoter is running a
business, and happen to make double what they expected to make, do you
think they are going to hand everyone double what they expected to be
paid? Doubtful. 

In the case of Nomad, not only is there an apparent breach of contract,
but there is deliberate fraud. Writing personal checks to someone knowing
that those checks will bounce is fraud, and many counties will prosecute. 
And they *have* to prosecute if you decide to press charges.

Also, it may interest the involved parties to know that you can sue for
treble damages(three times the amount of the check) in addition to
whatever criminal charges that you may choose to press.  

> If a DJ is there and he played on good faith well than of course he is
> going to be on the loosing end as well. 

They don't have to be. 

> It is not easy to make money in the underground scene, and money
> is not what it is all about. 

I would hardly consider Nomad underground. As far as I can tell, they have
been run as a for-profit business at all times. 

> So lighten up there are no gaurantees, and promises will certainly never
> amount to much, esspecially in the underground scene. 

Perhaps you could tell that to your landlord when they are wondering where
the rent is.

Personally, I don't like the "business" of parties. I much prefer to do
parties for friends, lose my own money and/or give away any I make, and
enjoy *every* damn minute of it.

However, if you are treating this is a business, it is most decidedly
in your best interest to know the law,  and not let sleazy people screw
you. 

					Black Adder


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 05:46:18 1998
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From: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
To: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
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me 'n pj got high and went to fao schwartz over the holiday season. 
quite an experience.  not only was the atmosphere in the store
strangely surreal, but i have to say it was candy raver heaven in
there.  saw hundreds of unique bizzare toys with rave written all over
them.  crazy muppetesque marianettes with built in dope dance moves...
 sick star wars t-shirts...  4 ft geometric sculptures you could fold
up and put in your pocket...

but i'm not really a candy raver myself.  for me the all time best
rave toy is and will always be glowsticks.  like legos they are
infinitely variable, you can always find a new "dance" to use them in,
or a new game to play with them.  hold them in your hands, or swing
one on a string.  tag sentences in the air - can anyone read what your
writing?  it's like speaking aloud in a foreign language no one else
knows.  or get a different kind -  you can use the "bracelets" like
longer, thinner sticks, or fold them up into glowing circles, or
squeeze them in your fingers and make them flap like seagulls...

-messiah


---TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com> wrote:
>
> *Ahem*
>       WHat this list needs is a pointless thread to get our minds off
> political issues in the scene.  Something that will take up tons of
bandwidth
> and be so irrelevant that no one can possibly flame it.  So.. here
is my
> futile attempt to brainwash you all from these negative energies
surrounding
> us and our parties.
> 
>         WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is
the
> coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or
elsewhere?
> 
>    Mine would be:
> *My Nosy bear (orange and blue bear with a basket ball hoop in his
nose, so
> when you squeeze his tummy the ball goes through the hoop)
> *Frank (a little sesame street honker guy)
> *A plastic camera with colorful knobs and a flashing red light on
the front
> that played house music when you pressed it
> *Eyedrops that make your eyes glow in the dark
> 
>           Now you all will spend your days mindlessly replying to
this letter.
> GO!
> 
>            hugs n'stuff,
>            'trice the i have too much time on my hands tekno diva
> 
> "Grow up.. not old"
> 
 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:07:50 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:05:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Leslie Ayres <leslie@netcommunications.net>
cc: sfraves@qmail.hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Vibes, Lara, Nikita and such
In-Reply-To: <l03110702b0d83fbed826@[38.248.198.58]>
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leslie, i swear you are the best! 
but i honestly think you're overestimating the contagiousness of my smile.
your smile is just as lovely as well as your vibe.

so is the smiles and vibes of many of you!@

what i'm saying is.. don't let other people fuck with that vibe you have!
if the only connection you have is with the music, FLOW WITH IT.
leslie knows what's up.
the vibe is up to you.
i guess i'm just lucky that the natural position of my face is "grin mode"
and not "staring blankly with a pout on my face" mode ;)
xo
lara

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Leslie Ayres wrote:

> It's making my day to see lara having to defend herself for going to a
> party and saying she didn't really care about the vibe... that she went for
> the music and had fun anyway...
> 
> cuz, i don't think i've *ever* been at a party where lara was that didn't
> have a vibe...
> 
> and that's because when you see lara's smiling face (and it's usually
> smiling in a most contagious way) at a party, and you see her dancing with
> her heart and soul to music she loves (heck, i've seen her dance with her
> heart and soul to music she *didn't* love!) ....
> 
> THAT *IS* THE VIBE!!!
> 
> maybe that's why lara doesn't care about having the vibe already there when
> she goes out.... because she brings it with her... and she spreads it
> around...
> 
> so the next time we feel that little annoyance at a party, cuz the vibe
> ain't there for us.... first, look around for lara, and go dance next to
> her, and it'll be all good!  and then if she's not there, maybe we can each
> try to create what she does, and make the vibe ourselves!
> 
> creating a vibe isn't up to the other people, folks, it's in your mood and
> your attitude, and what you create will affect others... sure, sometimes
> it's a little more work, because the other dancers have a few more layers
> of attitude to get through... but it can be done if you really want to.
> 
> love,
> leslie
> 
> 
> btw, i've been meaning to post about Nikita last Friday!  holy moley!  i
> went out because i had stayed in over new years and needed to dance... and
> hoped that it would be a fairly dedicated crowd since the occasional
> partiers were tired from their new years craziness....
> 
> got there at 11:30 and carlos was making the main room into a cathedral of
> house music, i danced solid in front of the turntables until he was done at
> 1am, and he actually brought tears to my eyes.... with his music, his
> energy, the love he puts out... and a sample that blew me away, that said
> "Not everyone understands house music.... house music is a spiritual thing"
> ....  and the amazing guy with the striped sweater who turned around and
> started dancing with me in the middle of it with a huge smile on his face,
> i'll never forget the energy at that moment!
> 
> thank you carlos for an amazing set.... i didn't see a person i knew until
> 2:30 am (hi phred!), which made the evening even more special to me....
> lest we think that the underground has some sort of hold on the "vibe" ....
> please know it just ain't so... there was more vibe on that dancefloor with
> carlos than i've seen at many an underground party.  it ain't about if it's
> a club, or if it's an underground, or whatever... it's about a special
> alchemy of time and place, heart and soul, beats and movement, and when it
> happens, it's pretty damned cool!
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:12:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:20:23 +0000
From: Tony Garcia <deepfog@hooked.net>
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hi sfravers. 

i'll be working at macworld with lacie if any of you are there you 
might want to stop by and say hi to me, near me or on me.  you can 
come see Dr. Farallon N.D. and his crazy antics with his nurse, I 
don't know what her name is.  But she's cool.  

There is some pretty neato stuff there this year, I think we will 
start seeing some pretty cool people coing out of the computer 
generation and making the incredible jump into rave visual technology.  
I mean, we are really the computer generation, cause we grew up on the 
computer, which is in spanish called computadora.  

Raves in Spain seem unlikely for me in the near future, but think of 
spinning in Barcelona.  Like right in the middle of a Sim City 2000 
simulation where Barcelona has a nuclear device explode right in the 
city and takes everything out.  What violent thoughts from such a 
musical mind.  

Speaking of music, there's a little house and techno slivered in to 
some of the booths.  We love our house music, eh?

Speaking of love, oh, ok i'll stop now.  See you there or see you not.  

peace.  

deepfog (how come no one ever ever calls me deepfig?) (Peter Sellers 
pronunciation)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:13:01 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a6786318.34b31cda@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:12:40 EST
To: CheerioHN@aol.com, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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In a message dated 98-01-06 02:30:32 EST, CheerioHN writes:

<< ps LOL if you know me you know how it really is :o) >>

Jilly, you are one dope girl!!
Ms. K1dd :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:16:59 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-06 03:17:55 EST, DjMarq@aol.com writes:

<< << My favorite costume is the one I wore to make fun of candy ravers >>
 
 
 what does this costume consist of justakid?
 
 marq >>

see reply from cheeriohn :)
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:37:43 1998
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To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Fwd: Terrapin Station to be built in SF??
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 22:37:37 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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sounds like this may become a potentially good SF venue to throw
dance music parties, (never mind the lingering patchouli odor).

anybody getting a weird "This is Spinal Tap" feelin' of Deja-Vu from
this annoucement?

------- Forwarded Message

January 6, 1998
Grateful Dead Living on Memory and Master Plan
By NEIL STRAUSS
NOVATO, Calif. -- If the red-brick warehouse in this Marin County town were 
open to the public, it would be a haven for one-stop shoppers. Its endless 
shelves are lined with everything from toothbrushes to golf balls, dog 
collars to stamps, skis to motorcycle parts, baby rompers to electric 
lanterns.
But this is not a supermarket. It is the headquarters of Grateful Dead 
Merchandising, where the golf balls are tie-dyed and the dog collars are 
emblazoned with the head of Jerry Garcia. A thousand packages of Grateful 
Dead items are shipped from this warehouse each day, bringing in an annual 
gross of $50 million to $60 million.
But much more than the sale of memorabilia is involved here. There is a 
Grateful Dead master plan. Most of the revenue coming in is being earmarked 
for an enormous project, perhaps the biggest undertaking ever attempted by 
a single band.
It is called Terrapin Station, to be built in San Francisco, a $60 million 
museum, amusement park, gathering place, concert hall, research center and 
possibly even a hotel for Grateful Dead fans who have lost their way since 
the band broke up after Garcia, its leader, died two and a half years ago.
"There's a way to keep this band going, even without Jerry, God bless him," 
said Dennis McNally, the band's press agent for 14 years. "Instead of 
dying, the Grateful Dead is morphing."
Rock-and-roll is a 50-year-old beast, and its founders and early innovators 
are just beginning to die off. With its pioneering musicians and bands 
gone, rock-and-roll is becoming a museum piece. Two years ago, the 
Rock-and-Roll Hall of Fame opened in Cleveland. And Paul Allen, a Microsoft 
entrepreneur, is in the process of developing a $60 million Experience 
Music Project rock museum in Seattle.
But Terrapin Station, named after a 1977 Grateful Dead album, promises to 
be a different type of tourist attraction altogether.
"This is probably the first rock-and-roll museum dedicated to one artist," 
said Bob Grossweiner, the senior editor of the concert industry magazine 
Performance. "If kids traveled all over the country following the band when 
they toured, I'm sure they'll all go to San Francisco to see the museum. It 
will bring a lot of money into the economy, and it's very possible that 
Terrapin Station will outdraw the Rock-and-Roll Hall of Fame, because it's 
in a bigger city, and some people are going to be spending weeks there 
instead of just a day. Hopefully, they'll have smoke alarms in the 
bathrooms and the staircases."
In its 30-year existence, the Grateful Dead was transformed from a band 
into a cult, attracting and retaining a more loyal, obsessive and dedicated 
following -- the Deadheads -- than any other rock group. Its tours were 
among the highest grossing, regularly earning some $50 million in a good 
year. But when the band broke up in 1995, it left tens of thousands of fans 
with nowhere to go, no band worthy of following so slavishly around the 
country.
One of the roles of Terrapin Station will be as a kind of shrine and 
meeting place for Deadheads. Its builders expect, in their most 
conservative estimates, that Terrapin Station will attract 1.2 million 
people in its first year.
Though a site has not yet been chosen, the band is considering two San 
Francisco locations and expects to close a deal by the end of the month. 
Meetings have already begun with city officials. Spokesmen for the band 
said that the city had pledged its support.
Phil Lesh, the Grateful Dead's bassist, said the idea first germinated in 
the late '60s when the band dreamed about becoming what he called "a 
rock-and-roll satellite" that would stay in one place and broadcast 
concerts around the world.
"The relationship between the band and the Deadheads needs to be nurtured 
because they are us, and we are them," Lesh said in a recent interview. 
"We'd been talking about Terrapin Station more seriously for the last five 
years, but the touring overhead and the number of employees we had were so 
great that we couldn't think of a way to generate enough time and energy, 
let alone money.
"With Jerry's death, everything changed. We are no longer a viable touring 
operation. We couldn't even support our entire staff. To make a smooth 
transition, we had to fall back on merchandising our music archives, and 
that became the cash cow for the whole organization."
"But we didn't want to just put out old live concerts until the material 
and interest dwindled away," he continued. "As big a draw as the music at 
our shows was the fellowship and community people had there with one 
another. We wanted to create a place that would be a presentation of what 
we did musically and culturally, and a place where people could gather, and 
new music could be showcased, and a nonprofit organization for music groups 
in the Bay Area could be developed."
The entrance to the 65,000-square-foot Terrapin Station, which Lesh said he 
hoped would be open by New Year's Eve 1999 for reunion of surviving 
Grateful Dead members, will be a parking lot, a re-creation of the place 
outside concert halls where Deadheads used to meet and sell food and 
crafts.
Inside, there will be a 1,000-seat auditorium for concerts by Bay Area 
bands and by members of the Dead, most of whom have formed their own 
groups; rotating museum exhibits focusing on the Bay Area music scene since 
the '60s, world music and chapters in Grateful Dead history, and a store 
full of band merchandise.
Plans also call for a roomful of percussion instruments for spontaneous 
drum circles and jam sessions; a multimedia theater that will recreate the 
experience of Grateful Dead concerts, and a restaurant tentatively called 
the Dancing Bear Cafe. (Expect the vegetarian burritos and grilled cheese 
sandwiches typically served up in a Dead concert parking lot.)
Depending on the size of the site that the Grateful Dead buys, there may 
also be a theme hotel or apartment complex, named Mars Hotel after another 
Dead album.
Terrapin Station will not be a giant Hard Rock Cafe, those involved say.
"I want to put my entire legal and business files on display," said Hal 
Kant, the band's lawyer for 30 years. "The music industry is kind of new, 
and I was one of the first lawyers, so maybe my files can help teach people 
about the development of contracts and business practices from the 
beginning. A substantial part of the museum is intended to be a research 
center."
Deadheads seem to be behind the project and have already contributed $1.5 
million.
Unlike most rock corporate ventures, the Grateful Dead has a very elaborate 
business partnership in which the musicians are heavily involved. Each 
original member owns an equal share in Grateful Dead Productions and has an 
equal vote in approving merchandise and business decisions.
When Garcia died, in keeping with an agreement made 25 years ago, the 
remaining members of the band bought back his interest in the corporation 
while his estate continued to receive his royalties from music and 
merchandise.
Although it isn't involved in band decisions, the estate is behind Terrapin 
Station, said Garcia's widow, Deborah Koons Garcia. "It sounds like a 
really fun and imaginative project," she said. "I think it's a few years 
off, but my understanding is that people are most excited about it being a 
high-tech playground and looking toward the future, which is something 
Jerry was really interested in."
(The estate still owes $4.6 million to Garcia's second wife, Carolyn Adams 
Garcia, known as Mountain Girl.)
The shock of his death, and the realization that with Terrapin Station the 
Grateful Dead would survive as a business entity long after its members 
were gone, has forced the rest of the band to set up a trust and start 
appointing trustees to take over their stock after their deaths.
"Band members are the board of directors," Kant said. "They're not 
figureheads. They make all the decisions, and we don't do anything until 
everyone agrees, so we're not dragging along a reluctant party. We're among 
the first rock groups to have health coverage, pension plans and other 
employee benefits."
Grateful Dead Productions itself is a complex, rapidly growing machine 
fueled by the band's insistence on direct control over its products, 
enabling it to control its image and keep a greater share of the profits 
than most musicians who work through separate record labels and 
merchandising companies Besides the new company being established to run 
Terrapin Station, Grateful Dead Productions includes a retail arm, which 
develops products and runs a mail-order catalog for direct sales.
A division licenses the Grateful Dead name and trademark to manufacturers 
(from multinational companies to entrepreneurs working out of the trunks of 
their cars) to develop and sell products.
There is a also a merchandising service, which works on product 
development, inventory control and concession sales not just for 
Dead-related concerts but also for other music acts like the Gipsy Kings 
and Maxwell, and sports teams like the Oakland Raiders.
And there is Grateful Dead Records, which recently expanded, to compensate 
for some of the loss of touring revenue and merchandise, releasing albums 
by Crosby and Nash and the Allman Brothers as well as the Dead, whose 
rigorous and extensive archives of some 2,300 concerts and numerous studio 
sessions are kept in a vault in the Novato warehouse.
In case of a fire, the vault has a security system that will pump the air 
out from the room, killing anyone inside but saving the music.
		   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (NPM: looks like they got their
		   			    priorities right... :-) )
"Thanks to the archive that the band had the foresight to compile over 30 
years, the music can be presented in different ways in the band's absence," 
said Peter McQuaid, the chief executive of Grateful Dead Productions. "With 
Terrapin Station, the Grateful Dead could theoretically go on and on 
performing without even having to show up and get on stage and play their 
instruments."


--------------------

------- End of Forwarded Message


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:42:14 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:15:43 -0700
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
Message-ID: <19980106.234020.3438.0.ldylove@juno.com>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980106184602.16754E-100000@value.net>
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If we are voting,  I will put one in for Reagan's head.  That pretty red
color and its so soft and fuzzy, way better than any elmo, might have to
try it as an e-toy though, some day if we ever go to the same party
maybe.  All I know is it kept me awake more than one boring class.  Hey
Reagan!!!!! I know I am a weird one, I happen to like myself that way and
a no way before or after hell freezes over on you know who!!!!

cherrios, 

RLove

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:48:43 -0800 (PST) Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
writes:
>
>
>  Hon-- do you mean Foam?!...if not then what's floam?...I know what
>you're talking about in regards to that bug vibrator..uh..I mean 
>vibrating
>bug;)...I have one...you can probaly get one at a new age store/ toy
>store??...I'll be in touch soon..been busy w/ work....
>                                 -Reagan
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, shimmer wrote:
>
>> floam. hours of fun and amusement. you have to deal with soapy 
>smelling 
>> hands afterwards tho
>> 
>> a close second is the vibrator bug. you know the purple and white 
>bug 
>> with pink knobby feet and you press it's nose to make it run. 
>someone had 
>> one at cloudfactory. where do you get them out here anyway? does 
>anyone 
>> know?
>> 
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:43:14 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7052ee39.34b3235c@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:40:26 EST
To: leslie@netcommunications.net, sfraves@qmail.hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Vibes, Lara, Nikita and such
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In a message dated 98-01-06 15:24:09 EST, leslie@netcommunications.net writes:

<<  that's because when you see lara's smiling face (and it's usually
 smiling in a most contagious way) at a party, and you see her dancing with
 her heart and soul to music she loves (heck, i've seen her dance with her
 heart and soul to music she *didn't* love!) ....
 
 THAT *IS* THE VIBE!!!
 
 maybe that's why lara doesn't care about having the vibe already there when
 she goes out.... because she brings it with her... and she spreads it
 around...
 
 so the next time we feel that little annoyance at a party, cuz the vibe
 ain't there for us.... first, look around for lara, and go dance next to
 her, and it'll be all good!  >>


True 'dat!!!
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:49:15 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <de2ff196.34b324e9@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:47:03 EST
To: Karma2001@aol.com, dreamer@ziplink.net, lara@vibe.org
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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In a message dated 98-01-06 16:25:33 EST, Karma2001 writes:

<< Hey guys I have to admit something and I guess I just want to know if this
makes me a bad person....Just like Lara...I to have gone to a "bad vibe party"
and had a great time by myself dancing my ass off.....and I didn't let the
"bad vibe evening" ruin my night.....is that bad??????????
                                            <3*MushyB! >>

HELL NO girl, you let it move you anyway you want, more power to you!!!  The
more you not allow the shoddy vibes to get to you the better.  Laugh them off.
That is what I have been doing with the flames I have gotten, and that is what
all you should be doin with the flames I'm givin!!  It's all just coping with
what you like, and dislike.  Dude, what is the point if you aren't having fun?
-Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 06:51:00 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b6728b9e.34b3254f@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:48:44 EST
To: rayvonie@IX.NETCOM.COM
Cc: dreamer@ziplink.net, lara@vibe.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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In a message dated 98-01-06 16:48:22 EST, rayvonie@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< I saw Lara That night, and not only did she seem like she was having a
great
 time at the party, but everyone AROUND HER was having a great time, because
they
 were feeding of her vibe.
 
 Keep it Real
 Vlad >>

HELL YEAH!!
-Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 07:08:28 1998
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Subject: RE: Vibes, Lara, Nikita and such
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> and that's because when you see lara's smiling face (and it's usually
> smiling in a most contagious way) at a party, and you see her dancing
with

speaking of smiles, i saw a girl at toon town that had the best smile...
she had long dark straight hair and a sf house collective shirt on, but
every time i saw her, she was smiling at people, or smiling at the
music, or maybe just smiling at herself.  she made such an impression on
me that i told her that her smile was great, and she smiled some more!

I've told people that the vibe at toon town was spotty.  and though
"spotty" means that it wasn't great all the time, it also means there
certainly is some, and if you look for it, you'll have to find it, just
because YOU are looking for it! that girl created some, as did a lot of
the other ravers i met there that night.  Byroni was kickin it to
come-unity for HOURS, you could tell he was into it!  i met terri young
and dina when they complimented me on my hat (LOVE your hair terri!),
and spent some quality playdoh time w/ some other davisravers.  i
chatted for a good hour w/ a neato girl from the "just say know to
drugs" booth.  and i brought home email addresses and phone numbers from
a buncha new friends.

it's like love:  you can't love anyone till you love yourself, and you
won't find good vibe, till you have some to share.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 08:14:55 1998
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:15:15 -0800
From: Andy Rudkosky <andyraver@earthlink.net>
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I didn't get a chance to go to any NYE parties in the bay cause I was
stuck in Sac, I went to my friends house and had a killer time though.
I miss SF and I want to come back(only 2 more weeks)  But I just want to
say that this is the best scene in all of the world..  Every town has
their shit parties, and shit promoters, and shit everything, but hey, we
can't all be happy, even though that's what we are all trying to
achieve.  I've been around the scene for about 1.5yrs, I've seen it go
through alot of changes since I've been partying, but I haven't given up
on it.  I believe in what we are all trying to do.  When I get back to
the city(2 more weeks) I plan to party hardy and contribute to the scene
and not try to take from it.  This could be one of my NY resolution, I
don't know.  But I hope to see alot of you out there doing the same in
'98!  Take care, and keep it real!

Andyraver


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 10:36:23 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:33:33 -0800 (PST)
From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: es gibt tantzen. Eine Static Review
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My German is 5 years old so sue me.

Well, call me crazy but I braved the ealy morning
drizzle to bring you this review of Static.  I
thought that by reviewing it right after it
happenened my memory would be fresher-even if the Two
Bass and the Pear cider made my brain well more fuzzy.

Anyhow- as usual the Static crew delivered me a
memorable tuesday night- I especially enjoyed the
stylings of the house Dj I was really getting off on
the dissonant yet synchronous mix.

Then the Gabberman took the stage.  I usually don't
like gabber, but this dj was endearing (kind of a mad
Mozart orchestrating his laptop throughout the set). 
 I think gabber at its best sounds like an electrical
plant gone haywire overdubbed by Fabrik(factory)
propaganda.  For me it has to mesh just right for me
to get it, and tonight it just clicked.

Allow me to wax romantic about liquid and static, I
don't think I have ever had a bad time there- there
is always a warm vibe and such a warm vibe that
you'll swear you fell in love, even if you go home
alone.

with that thought I leave you to make it home before
I collapse.

PJF






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To: STRC9PRO <STRC9PRO@aol.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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At 9:24 PM -0500 1/6/98, STRC9PRO wrote:
>Hello San Fran
>
>My name is Capt C and im with Stric 9 prodctions. I just wanted to put in my
>two cents in on this conversation. A DJ goes in to a party knowing fully that
>if he is not good he is not going to attract a big crowd, and there for he is
>not going to get paid.

I strongly disagree.  A Dj goes into a party under a contract, verbal or
otherwise.  If a part of the contract is the attendance then your rule is
true, otherwise if a contract is given, verbal or otherwise, that makes no
mention of this possibility then you as a promoter MUST pay up.

Don't promise what you cannot deliver.

>Big name DJs charge up to 1200.00 for a set at a party.

The reason for that is demand, draw, and previous gaffling from promoters.

>Knowing that they might not be paid in full they charge a deposit of up to and
>sometimes more than half.

Is there any wonder?  Please read your first statement for the answer. If
people did business correctly then I doubt we would see such fees and
extremes.  People don't so DJ's *have* to act in their own best interest.

>Getting a big name means going through a manager and
>requires more work, how ever there is less risk. Alot of promoters dont even
>break even or come up way short by the end of the party.

You should have realistic expectations.  Coming up short doesn't mean you
short other people.  It means *you* take the loss.  If you exepect to make
the gains then you have to be able to accept the possibility of a loss.  A
DJ is part of that expense.

I just don;t get the business accumen of some promoters.  I'm sorry, but
the second someone has to get paid the business aspect starts, and certain
rules apply.

>If a DJ is there and
>he played on good faith well than of course he is going to be on the loosing
>end as well.

There are plenty of DJ's who will not walk away empty handed no matter
*what* condition the party was in.

> It is not easy to make money in the underground scene, and money
>is not what it is all about.

Then don;t charge people to get in, have DJ's spin for free, get your
flyers printed up gratis, and convince a club that it's not about the
money.  The second you have a monetary exchange you create excpectations.
The second these expectations are in place the business end of raving
starts.

There are plenty of parties that have DJ's spin for free, and keep their
costs low.  They don't flyer, and break even covering the costs of a sound
system (if needed), and the space.  Then there are those who cannot or will
not pull this type of "profit-free" venture off and the rules of business
begins to apply itself.

Yes, it's not easy making money, but I thought that was not what it was
about anyway.  Hmmm...seems like you're slightly contradicting yourself.
Anyway money is a factor in many events.  Only the naieve would ignore such
factors when printing up a four color flyer to get people to come.

> So lighten up there are no gaurantees, and
>promises will certainly never amount to much, esspecially in the underground
>scene.

As Adder said, tell that to your landlord when you can't pay your rent,
because "there are no gurantees" and see what happens.

>Anyways I look forward to partying in San Fran again
>
>P*L*U*R
>Capt C
> <A HREF="http://www.users.cts.com/king/p/pala/index.htm">The General's Room
></A>


Out,
John

"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 14:07:15 1998
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Subject: What is Right in the Scene.
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	It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the 
scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the 
scene.

Thanks
-Faro

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 15:06:42 1998
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At 9:54 PM -0800 1/6/98, Faro wrote:
>	It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the
>scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the
>scene.

What's right in the scene? Here's one possibility:

While Nomad was doing their thing, there were undoubtedly friends, dancing
with each other in their living rooms on NYE to a good mixtape or a friend
who's just learning to DJ, loving each other and the music, in a safe
space, wondering what 1998 will bring.

Start anything in your living room, and it's destined to be real. :-)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 15:23:39 1998
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Andy wrote:

>say that this is the best scene in all of the world..  


Amen to that, man!! You're apart of why this scene is the best!!

Be well,

Carol


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 15:31:51 1998
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>Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the 
>scene.
>
>Thanks
>-Faro
>


Sure, I'll give this my 25 cents worth..IMHO - Having the opportunity to 
spread positive energy throughout the scene, making new 
friends/acquaintances, and freedom of expression/ideas:-)

Be well,

Carol


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 17:03:01 1998
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STRC9PRO wrote:
> Big name DJs charge up to 1200.00 for a set at a party.

yeah, I wish that was all they charged up to.
-SUNNY


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 17:07:23 1998
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STRC9PRO wrote:
> Big name DJs charge up to 1200.00 for a set at a party.

yeah, I wish that was all they charged up to.
-SUNNY



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 17:10:56 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
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Hey!  My name's kinda big... I mean it's like nine letters... Hay Happy 
Kids!  Cough up my $1200.00!!  :D :D :D :D  Just kidding Marty, don't go 
pop a blood vessel or something :D :D :D :D


On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Sunny wrote:

> STRC9PRO wrote:
> > Big name DJs charge up to 1200.00 for a set at a party.
> 
> yeah, I wish that was all they charged up to.
> -SUNNY
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 17:18:45 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:18:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: "Good" in The Scene
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Let's see... there's lot sof stuff that's "Good" in The Scene!

- The Spice Girls didn't get a grammy nomination
- 'Better Living Through Chemistry' has been released like 3 times in teh 
last year and a half
- People are a little more tolerant of breakbeat nowadays
- I have seen more up-start "live" techno acts in the last 8 months than 
in the last 4 years
- I've seen a real growth in the underground no matter what's going on in 
the mainstream arena
- Jungle
- My two favorite internet lists, SFR and SCR :) :) :)   No matter how 
much bitching and drama, these lists keep me sane!!
- Mr. Potatohead (okay, so he's not really scene-related but I like him.)
- S (it's a So-Cal thing.... maybe I'll bring some S to Happy Kids!)
- E-kisses :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) I love e-kisses :) :) :)
- S-kisses are good too :) :) :)
- Did I mention breakbeat?  Breakbeat is always good :D
- Wacky parties with odd stuff happeneing at them (like moonbounces, 
weddings, etc. etc. etc.)
- Just Jer climbing up in that vent at Minna (I still think that was 
funny!)
oh lots of other stuff is good in The Scene.  :)

it would take all day to list it all!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 17:41:16 1998
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Hmmm Breakbeat yes I think this could be a good weekend
for that maybe Acid Breaks 2 at a Virgin 




> - Did I mention breakbeat?  Breakbeat is always
good >:D

i like this thread lets name some good things on a
positive tip...


Breakbeat 8) yeah I like that...kisses and stuff sure
I'll take some of those to go...uuhhh hugs are always
good maybe even a  cyberhug ))))))))))squeeze((((((((((
or two O.K. lets keep this going.. good hard ass techno
---- did I mention Breakbeat 8)

LL


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 18:17:20 1998
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From: Christopher Porter <cporter@exploretech.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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My favorite rave toy is the MUSIC... No brainier, eh?  If the music doesn't do it however... or if the legs refuse to do their thing... necks, shoulders, and hands usually do the trick.

Mmmmm... Necks... :)

--ChrisP

P.S. Andy W's favorite toy is a 4 foot circle of carpet in the middle of James Allen's living room... (hi Andy!)



Chris Porter
Customer Support coordinator
Explore Technologies
408-654-3846, 8-5 PST.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 18:32:55 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-06 22:03:19 EST, you write:

<<   Hon-- do you mean Foam?!...if not then what's floam?. >>

IT's that Nickelodeon stuff.  Like broken up styrafoam in this gooey substance
that you can sculpt or just play with like putty.  It feels really neat =)  I
have some that's day glow orange

       hugs n'stuff,
          'trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 18:38:22 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: FRIDAYS ?? boom boom
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yeah! - I want to take some friends to the City on Friday 16th to boom boom
dance dance dance all night : )

love drum-n-bass/jungle.... Heard about Nikita and Stir-Fri-Day

Any recommendations?

LOVE TO EVERYONE!!

Terri


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


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From: "Carol Saldana" <csaldana@hotmail.com>
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You wrote:-)

>Freedom my ass.
>


Hmmm....don't really know what you mean, too bad you have that 
attitude.:(

Be well,

Carol


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 18:46:39 1998
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Terri E. Young wrote:
> 
> yeah! - I want to take some friends to the City on Friday 16th to
>boom boom dance dance dance all night : )
> 
> love drum-n-bass/jungle.... Heard about Nikita and Stir-Fri-Day
> 
> Any recommendations?
> 
> LOVE TO EVERYONE!!
> 
> Terri

Nikita is about the only place in town where I've consistantly found
d&b/jungle on ANY weekend night.  Drum & Bassment w/ DJ Kayar is
OUTSTANDING, Esp if your'E in the right framE of mind. . .  (that's
downstairs at Nikita).

Anyone know of a good weekend d&b spot in town?  I've spent hours in
search of some, but always ended up at Nikita.

Luck!
Steve.

-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 18:56:21 1998
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In a message dated 1/7/98 5:23:10 AM, you wrote:

<<On the other hand, attendance was way down,
the financial loss was large and it put Martin and his team in the position
of having to cut DJ payments.  That's not good and yes, it should never
happen, but Martin has a good record from what I can tell of
satisfying his obligations, so please consider the context before
drawing any final conclusions. >>

It's my understanding that Martin took the time to contact the DJ's involved
and re-negociated thier fees for the postponed ToonTown. So, it was probably
no surprise to anyone that they received less money than they expected for a
ToonTown that would have happened on NYE.
--Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 19:55:58 1998
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Faro wrote:
> 
>         It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the
> scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the
> scene.
> 
> Thanks
> -Faro

There is an indian story about how a long time ago a huge star exploded.
>From that star many worlds were created. In each of our hearts is a fragment
of that star. In life we often experience heart aches that are like
water thrown on that flame in our heart. Sometimes that water hurts so much 
that the flame is extinguished and we give up and die or become
lost souls with no heart left. But if that flame is a strong one
it will continue to burn and actually become stronger. And each
time we have water thrown at us we grow even more stronger. Eventually
we find something to fan the flames and the fire in our our heart becomes
so strong that it can burn with love and light and passion no matter what.
 
When these people die, the love in their hearts is so brite and strong
that it becomes a star. Look up tonight and you will see
many of these beaming their love and offering strength and support
to those of us that have just had water thrown on our hearts.

If you look around you will still see many of those people here
on sfraves or at the partys beaming their love around. No matter
how vicious or hateful people online or off line get there are always
those beautiful souls that have a smile or a hug or a kind word or
a blowpop or a fuzzy toy to play with or some new music.

When we share our love/light we all become stronger and brighter stars.
Every moment we have a choice as to whether we are going to throw
water on the person in front of us or throw love. There are many that
are throwing water and even mud and those that want to exploit the 
light by just taking and not giving anything back. Its really
up to us to chose which direction we want to go. Every moment
we choose to add light or water. Its easy to throw water and complain
or fight, any idiot can do that...it takes a little more character
to rise above that and fan the flame by finding solutions.

For all the problems here, the love is still strong and vibrant.
And the music continues fan those flames...often
to a ferociously hot fire that leaves us glowing for a long time.

Be a star...hug someone. 

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

ps...one more piece of indian wisdom....
when you point a finger at someone else you have three fingers
pointing at yourself.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 19:55:59 1998
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From: who me? <elmo@cloudfactory.org>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR: need Be-In info
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I'll be at the MacWorld expo for the next three days... I was wondering if
somebody could please send me the Be-In info.... I seem to have misplaced
it.

Please respond privately...

Thanks-

-matt (aka mc^2)
CFC

------------------------------------------------------------------------
matt cantu      <elmo@cloudfactory.org>
http://arts.ucsc.edu/Random/Matt/cantu/

"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, yeah Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants our size?"
from Pinky and the Brain  (Animaniacs)
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 19:58:08 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: Rebecca L Cardennis <ldylove@juno.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Rebecca L Cardennis wrote:

> If we are voting,  I will put one in for Reagan's head.  That pretty red
> color and its so soft and fuzzy, way better than any elmo, might have to
> try it as an e-toy though, some day if we ever go to the same party
> maybe. 

I claim all rights to the aforementioned head. :-)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 19:58:20 1998
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From: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org, "'Wayne D. Correia'" <wayne@club.net>
Subject: RE: What is Right in the Scene.
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new year's eve. a couple friends rented a space and a sound system.
invitation only which meant that some one told you where. give that name
at the door and you're in.

dj's were friends. played for fucking bottles of wine. including ellen
ferrato who plays main room for $ at release (by the way someone was
asking when was the last time anyone saw a dj dancing their ass off
during their set... check her out. more energy than her crowd, and her
crowd is always moving). 

they asked for a $10 donation. not everyone could pay. didn't mean they
couldn't come in. after the sound and expenses were reimbursed there was
a profit of over $1000. the party was thrown to have fun with friends
and like minded people. not to make money. those profits became a
donation to the space which is owned by a local non profit group for
renovations.

that was real as any else i've seen in the last 8 years... and if you
were there say hi!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 20:09:37 1998
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Cc: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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Hey fuck face..

Was I talking to the whole list?


-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Saldana <csaldana@hotmail.com>
To: stuff@hooked.net <stuff@hooked.net>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.


>
>You wrote:-)
>
>>Freedom my ass.
>>
>
>
>Hmmm....don't really know what you mean, too bad you have that 
>attitude.:(
>
>Be well,
>
>Carol
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 20:13:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 12:09:18 -0800
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From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re:  Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
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 m>
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At 01:27 AM 1/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>OK i guess my definition of vibe is the overall attitude of the CROWD. not
>the MUSIC.
****
I agree.  

I also agree that the music *can* enhance the vibe.. but when i refer to a
party... the music is the music, and the vibe is the overall energy  given
off by the crowd there.

people are pretty much either "so happy to be here" or "tired of being
here", and this is the energy of the  crowd.  granted, that can be
manipulated slightly via auditory dopeness... but when it comes right down
to it, either you're having a good time, or you're not. that's "vibe" to me.

peace2enhanceTHAvibe,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 20:20:55 1998
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From: Christopher Porter <cporter@exploretech.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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>Rebecca L Cardennis wrote:
> If we are voting,  I will put one in for Reagan's head.  That pretty red
> color and its so soft and fuzzy, way better than any elmo, might have to
> try it as an e-toy though, some day if we ever go to the same party
> maybe. 

>Then At 11:57 AM 1/7/98 -0800, blkadder@value.net wrote:
>I claim all rights to the aforementioned head.  :-)

Cool!  You should licence the rights to my company.  We can make replica Reagan Head toys and sell'em for 10 bucks at the SpaceNomads party!!  We'll make a killing, hide the money and not pay Reagan anything!  

Now, what should we call this toy?  How'bout Red Hedz... Or Raygin's Noggins?

Surely I Jest... Surly..

--ChrisP

Chris Porter
Customer Support coordinator
Explore Technologies
408-654-3846, 8-5 PST.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 20:22:42 1998
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Subject: Re: FRIDAYS ?? boom boom
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Naw.. I suggest you get some sleep Friday night, and hit up the Jungle room
at Acid Breaks on Saturday.. DJ resident Kayar seems to play rather mellow
"boom, bap, boom boom, bap) jungle.. It's not at all like the crazy, wild,
out of control jungle you will hear at Acid Breaks on Saturday...



Peace..
Fuck Face.. I like that one..

=]:..
Jeff


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 20:23:46 1998
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:58:52 -0800
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From: Terri Young <ez053642@sol.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: ? @ Fridays in SF
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K. I wanna take some friends to the City on Friday 16th.

Looking for dancing dancing dancing, especially drum-n-bass/jungle.

Anyone know whats goin on?  Been to Nikita or Stir-Fri-Day??

Recommendations anyone?:)

lotsolove
Ter

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Message-ID: <34B2C271.4818@cloudfactory.org>
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 16:47:03 -0700
From: Terry Estioko <terry@cloudfactory.org>
Reply-To: terry@cloudfactory.org
Organization: Viberation Graphics Workshop
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Subject: Full on senseless ramble...
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Hello all-

I spent the better part of the day reflecting on
things...parties....friends...love...my
future...existence....parties...list-servs...collectives....

I've been so gung-ho over the last few months, sometimes it's nice to
just stop.

Stop everything and think....

Now most of you don't know who I am, but a lot of you do. And I've been
a devoted SFRaver through thick and thin for over two years.  I don't
post much...well I did back in the day...I suppose I was once quite a
post whore. 

I've been reading most of the posts ever since, I just didn't feel like
posting back and rehashing the same topics over and over and over...

But you all give me quite a chuckle at times, and other times you make
my blood boil...

I love it!....raving's my passion, it's been for a long time.

And for some unknown reason, I've felt the urge to share a bit of my
$.02 with you.

I've met some really interesting ravers in my day, I'm one of the few
displaced ravers on this list that has gained a real appreciation for
the SF scene. And the difference between SF, LA, and SD parties is so
great, I know I could never comprehend the stories I've heard about
Seattle, the East Coast, and the techno-Mecca of Europe.

My conclusion through my own experiences and through others is that
there are no "real" raves, nobody's better than anyone, nobody's way is
the right way.

Just because you're a "raver", it doesn't make you immune to the ying
and yang of life, there are bad ravers, and good ravers, and sometimes
bad ravers really aren't bad and good ravers really aren't all that
good. And one cannot coexist without the other.

It's a Kantian way of thinking, I guess.

I feel for those of you who have had bad experiences in the past,
believe me, I've had plenty myself (Exx-why-Zzz). But this way of life
we call "raving" is no limbo, it is not detached from the rest of the
world as much as it may seem. 

I have seen completely irresponsible actions done by promoters both here
and in so-cal, especially in so-cal (sorry!). Unfortunately, I feel the
best we can do is respond in a postive reaction of our own, in our own
way, within our own limits.

I suppose I could devote my life to spanking those greedy liitle San
Diego promoting bastards that won't even rent those poor little souls a
*FAN* and those happy little ravers don't know any better....=(

Are you getting my point, or falling asleep? Well, good night.

Shit Happens...little of it correctable, some of it addressable.

Allow me to summarize a bit....our scene is beautiful! Some people are
bad people and know it, they will go to hell. Some people are bad and
don't know it, they will either learn or join the previous hell-bound
ones. Some people are good and know it and make a difference, and
others, well....they just *enjoy life*!

***I just think if you find peace, energy, love, spirituality, or even
just a good time in the music and keep it in your heart, *that's what
matters*.****

If you just love the music, and love getting dressed up, and love an EAW
stack in your ear for 8 hours, I think that's great! 

If you want to get involved and help throw parties and find your energy
through others, I think that's great too!

But *be yourself*,* be genuine*, and you will be surrounded by those who
share your passion.

I'm lucky I guess...to be in the position I'm in, I've found a group of
really amazing people. And not just those whom I cohort with, but those
people whom I've had the opportunity to meet in the past who just 
fuckin' rock the scene, in their own way, with their own vision. 

I know a bunch of you are reading this....thanks!!!.....=)

All of you, this list, this scene has made such a difference in my life.
I don't know what to expect this coming year....I just know it will be
good, *real good*!

Aw okay...enough ramble for now...if you've made it this far... well,
cool....I guess.

And now back to our normal scheduled bandwith of bicker and flames,
plur-oozing posts, and other diversions of the SFRaves variety.

Best Wishes this New Year!

much love and energy,

Terry Estioko

--------------------------------*Viberation*-------
http://www.saturn5.com/viberation/
viberation@saturn5.com------> Contact us
terry@cloudfactory.org-------> Contact me
-------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 20:31:51 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:31:24 -0800 (PST)
From: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
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Reply-To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
To: Faro <Faro@usa.net>
cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Faro wrote:

> 	It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the 
> scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the 
> scene.
> 
> Thanks
> -Faro
> 

The music is at times amazing.

Some people are still down to earth.

Harmony is back to throwing smaller parties (even though I loved John
Williams at the Massive like I have never loved a sober set before or
since).

E is still $20, despite several years of inflation.

House parties.

Cari Lekebush is still making records.

There is no single cool thing to do.

Really clean sounding sound reinforcement equipment is dropping in price.

Digital recording can be done at home for almost nothing if you have a PC.

Vinyl is still alive and well.

Friends and Family, Cloud Factory, BBQ & Beats, Viberation, Lepidoptera,
Gateway (and all the other collectives!).

Baggy clothes made of soft fabrics.

Small parties can sometimes still play host to big names.

Cabin parties.

A genuine smile from someone you know you'll end up being friends with.

There are more subgenres of techno than there are ravers, I think.

WBL still plays once in a blue moon.

If you're in a good mood, you can still show up to just about any party
and have a good time.

Night air coming into a hot, sweaty building through a window.

Free water.

Love.

Ridiculously heavy bass.

Leaving your backpack on the floor, and not really worrying about it.

We still have chill rooms at some parties.

Mendecino/Humboldt's finest.

ReBirth-338.

Bill Gates can't see you... yet.

Green Extra still glows under blacklight.

Dancing makes more sense as I get older.

There is a part of the scene that really doesn't care about money.

It's still possible to wake up on Saturday morning, and decide to throw a
renegade that night.

I have a photo of Greg and Micron in drag.

People are usually much nicer in person than on the net.

You can use SFRaves as a shrink, paging service, info line, support group,
or record hunting tool anytime day or night.

Less random psychedlic bullshit, more thematic party decorations.

Hyperreal goes down less often than our corporate E mail server (uh... I
don't administer that one, okay?).

People's Park, the Marina and Point Molate still go great with Sunday
afternoon sunshine and good house music.

Most ravers are still going at 5am.

Some promoters still base their lineups on musical flow rather than on
draw vs. cost.

I'm hearing the word "drama" less now... and seeing less meth use.

The Primal used bin, and the techno section at Solid Grooves.

Sooner or later, good or bad, people tend to get what they deserve.

Power bars and blow pops are both available at Costco (as well as 5000
watt generators for $500).

Smiling shows no signs of becoming illegal despite recent conservative
trends in government.

I think we haven't seen the last of parties that serve fresh fruit in the
morning.

Not everybody concentrates on the negative.

Peace,
AndyW


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 20:48:17 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:47:44 -0800 (PST)
From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: Christopher Porter <cporter@exploretech.com>
cc: Rebecca L Cardennis <ldylove@juno.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980107122722.007b37b0@exploretech.com>
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On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Christopher Porter wrote:

> >Then At 11:57 AM 1/7/98 -0800, blkadder@value.net wrote:
> >I claim all rights to the aforementioned head.  :-)
> 
> Cool!  You should licence the rights to my company.  We can make replica 
> Reagan Head toys and sell'em for 10 bucks at the SpaceNomads party!!
> We'll make a killing, hide the money and not pay Reagan anything!  

Why are you thinking so small? Franchise fees.... Franchise Fees...

SpaceNomads will team up with McDonalds(tm) and become McNomads(tm). The
same business model that was used to make McDonalds great will be applied
to McNomads. 

> Now, what should we call this toy?  How'bout Red Hedz... Or Raygin's Noggins?

That is a problem for the marketing dept. 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 21:00:26 1998
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:05:56 -0800
From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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I may have sent this to you all before, but there is a LOT of cool
stuff here.  All videos, but you know . . .  The sound quality is
outstanding.  Check it out.


> >
> > http://www.streamland.com

Steve.

-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 21:13:15 1998
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Message-ID: <34B3EF32.5320878@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:10:10 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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Faro wrote:

>         It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the
> scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the
> scene.

    This scene, when you remove the internal politix, is one of the most
enlightening entertainment experiences available on this planet.  Not
only does it promote positive interactions through music and dance over a
diverse culture of people, but it plants the idea of the whole Peace ,
Love, Unity, and Respect Philosophy into the minds of the young and
impressionable youth of our chaotic society.  Not to mention, that it is
a whole lot of FUN to got out to parties, make new friends, and dance to
great music.  In a nutshell... aside from the politix.... FUN doesn't get
better than this :)

Keep it Real.... Vlad



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 21:13:31 1998
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To: Terri Young <tyyoung@ucdavis.edu>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: oops - Ignore that second message
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silly me, I posted same thing 2x 

thanks for the comments I received so far : P

At 10:58 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Terri Young wrote:
>K. I wanna take some friends to the City on Friday 16th.
>
>Looking for dancing dancing dancing, especially drum-n-bass/jungle.
>
>Anyone know whats goin on?  Been to Nikita or Stir-Fri-Day??
>
>Recommendations anyone?:)
>
>lotsolove
>Ter
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 21:37:59 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:40:27 -0800
To: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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>*Ahem*
>      WHat this list needs is a pointless thread to get our minds off
>political issues in the scene.  Something that will take up tons of bandwidth
>and be so irrelevant that no one can possibly flame it.  So.. here is my
>futile attempt to brainwash you all from these negative energies surrounding
>us and our parties.
>
>        WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is the
>coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or elsewhere?

        100 pot brownie points to Teknodiva for starting this fun thread!
Not at all pointless, imho, and I took the liberty of removing "NRR" from
the subject line -- what were you thinking?

        "Kumagoro" (Japanese for "boy bear"), my furry teddy-bear backpack
would have to be my current favorite rave-toy, because he is perfect for
holding other toys & stuff in his well-upholstered zippered pockets, and is
fun to touch and look at to boot!

        I can't even begin to remember all the cool toys I've seen other
people with that made me giggle in wonder & delight.  One terrific item was
this sort of battery-operated ball-object, that had glowing lights and
rubber protrubances and vibrated in your hands so much that it could be a
bit of a challenge to hold onto.

        Some of these toys, you almost have to wonder if the designers had
ravers in mind, they're just *too* perfect for happy, tripping people, and
too weird for just about anything else.

        I'd also love to get my hands (or should I say feet?) on a pair of
those bouncing moon shoes.  I've been told they don't make them anymore,
probably due to the same liability concerns that prevent so much cool stuff
in this country from happening.  The only ones I ever saw for sale were
very flimsy plastic and looked like they would've broken almost
immediately, but I've seen a couple ravers who had sturdy, durable-looking
ones, which looked like a total blast to wear!

        Now if you want to see the hippest, most stylin' raver clothing
around, look no further than the infants/toddlers section of your favorite
large clothing store!  Wouldn't it be cool if we were all be the size of
infants for a night so we could wear some of those groovy colorful
fashions?  Most of it just doesn't come in adult sizes... 8(

Love & snuggles,
                                <<< Starchild >>>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Except ye become as little children, ye shall not enter into the Kingdom
of Heaven."



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 21:38:58 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:41:29 -0800
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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        Fish:  You must tell us exactly how this went over!  I think I
would've gotten a huge kick out of it, but it can't have been popular with
everyone...

Much love,
                                <<< Starchild >>>

>one thing i really thought was funny was when we collected
>roaches all week and then dipped them in glow in the dark paint
>and then dumped hundreds of them on the dance floor at a
>trance party.
>
>note* by roaches im refering to the bugs not the smoked ones.
>
>        ><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>                foolish fish



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 21:43:14 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:45:44 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Update on Daytime Curfews
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>Tuesday, Jan 6, '98
>11:30am
>Dear Friends,
>
>This email contains two distinct messages re: daytime curfew in both the
>City and the County of Sonoma _and_ a message re: Napa City.  If you have
>alerted associates, friends, news groups, loops, lists, etc., please forward
>this email immediately so that no one is inconvenienced by a trip to Sonoma
>for a meeting the agenda of which will NOT contain daytime curfew.  <BG>
>
>1)  The Sonoma CITY Council WILL NOT be hearing daytime curfew at its
>meeting Wednesday evening, 1/7/98.  According to Sonoma's City Clerk, the
>council has decided to wait until the County ordinance is heard and decided
>upon, one way or the other, before they take action on the City's proposal.
>
>***********************Please apprise all within your 'sphere's of
>influence' of the change.....we WILL NOT attend this Wednesday evening's
>meeting!*******************************
>
>2)  The COUNTY ordinance has been shelved temporarily while District
>Attorney Mike Mullins meets with several representatives of the anti-daytime
>curfew coalition in an attempt to hear our concerns.  (???)  I and 2 others
>will be meeting with Mr. Mullins this Friday afternoon.
>
>3)  Now, to what I feel is the most interesting news item.  I received this
>just moments ago, (it's hot off the wire!) from a friend, Phil Graf, a
>resident of Sonoma County.  (Thanks, Phil!...you dig up the greatest
>stuff...I owe you a Diet Coke when next we see each other!)  The following
>should cause everyone to grin and to raise an eyebrow or two!
>
>Read on.  Have a great Tuesday and a relaxed, unencumbered Wednesday evening.
>Love,
>Cyndie
>
>---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
>Date:        01/06  7:28 AM
>Received:    01/06  10:24 AM
>From:        Harry Martin, sentinel@napanet.net
>To:          philgraf, philgraf@dsp.com
>
>THE NAPA CITY ATTORNEY HAS RULED THAT THE DAYTIME CURFEW IS
>UNCONSTITUTIONAL. AS A MEMBER OF THE NAPA CITY COUNCIL, WE REJECTED SUCH A
>CURFEW BECAUSE OF ITS ILLEGAILITY. IF YOU NEED TO CONTACT OUR CITY
>ATTORNEY, HIS NAME IS TOM BROWN HIS PHONE IS 257-9516.
>
>Harry Martin, Publisher, Napa Sentinal/Calistoga Citizen
>
>----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 21:45:04 1998
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To: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>, "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Dear Lara & Ms. Kidd,

        Okay, I apologize for my opening sentence below.  Although I did
not intend it disrespectfully, I can see how it could be taken that way.  I
only meant it in the same way that I would understand someone commenting on
the irony if I said something like "dreams are a waste of time, you should
be concerned with real life" when my email address is
<dreamer@ziplink.net>.

>  You say:  I must say I'm curious too... particularly why someone would have
> "vibe" as part of her email address, yet apparently believe the vibe at a
> party makes no difference!
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Ms. K1dd:  Are you stoopid? Orson gave her the account.  If you had been
>around earlier in LIFE you would have known that.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=

        I have to admit to a certain pleasure at being called "stoopid"
that would just not be there if you had merely called me "stupid", and I
thank you for that.  8)

Lara shared:
>you can't judge me as a vibeless person just because i don't want to run
>around smiling and throwing candy and flowers at bad vibe people when
>there's a negative "vibe" at a party.

        I'm not judging you.  Hey, I have to be in a pretty good mood to do
that myself, so it would be hypocritical to expect it from others.

Ms. Kidd shared:
> You say:  I'm not saying your attitude is "bad," Lara, I just find it very
> hard to relate to.  It's hard for me to understand how someone could really
> dig the rave scene but not care about the vibe, because for me rave and
> vibe are synonomous.  I don't care if the music is the best I've ever heard
> -- with vibe, it's a rave; without vibe, it's just a party with great dance
> music.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Ms. K1dd:  You never want to go to a party just to hear the music?  She is a
>JUNGLIST, music is of the utmost, friends and "vibe" are just a plus.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=

        The only time I've ever gone to a rave-type party specifically for
the music that I can recall was to see the Orb, Shamen, Utah Saints, and
Moby.  And even though these acts were the main draw for me, I still
would've stayed away had I been given reason to believe the vibe would
suck. I can understand that other people are different, but it's still hard
for me to imagine being into the music more than the vibe.  It's not that I
don't love the music, it's just that I have seen the same vibe present
elsewhere, such as around Grateful Dead shows, and I've had a great time in
such environments in spite of not being very into the music.

Lara shared:

>it's not that i don't care about the vibe. it's that i care about the
>music so much that if the vibe sucks, i can ignore it and go with the
>melody.

        This seemed to be the point of your message Lara (which is why I
didn't paste the rest of it in here), and I completely respect it.  You are
lucky to be able to do that.  Also note that I wrote the above paragraph in
reply to Ms. Kidd before reading your response, and I am struck by the
similarity, in reverse, of what we each say about the vibe and the music.

        On behalf of the vibe though, I will say this.  Techno's been
around only a decade or so, and jungle an even shorter time.  Who knows
what most underground types will be listening to in another ten or twenty
years?  Vibe, however, is kind of timeless.

        A couple years ago I saw an interesting movie about the gypsy
culture in Europe by the name of "Latcho Drom".  I remember smiling from
time to time while watching it, as the thought kept occuring, "These people
have been on this nomadic trip for hundreds of years, but basically they're
just the historical equivalent of a bunch of ravers!"  The colorful dress,
the casual lifestyles, the willingness to break into song and dance at
every opportunity, it all seemed so familiar even though all the details
were different.

        Mind you, the music they were playing wasn't my idea of a good
dance beat, nor I doubt would it be yours.  Looking back at the
countercultural tradition on this planet, which stretches back in many
times and places way before the psychedelic '60s, a shared vibe seems
closer to the heart of it than any kind of shared music, imho.

And Ms. Kidd continues:

> You say:  If vibe doesn't matter to you, would you be just as happy cruising
> up and down the boulevard with a bunch of cool jock/cheerleader types as
> you would be at a party, as long as you had a terrific car stereo and your
> favorite jungle mix tapes?
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Ms. K1dd:  What is wrong with jocks and cheerleaders?  I have taken the
>sweetest cheerleader to aprties and she had a fun time, loved it in fact. You
>know, you need to get to know epopel before you judge them.  And honey, sorry,
>but you CANNOT do I need to repeat that? dance in a car, and no system in a
>car is the same as that at a party.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=

        I debated with myself whether to even include that
"jock/cheerleader" bit, knowing someone would more than likely take
offense.  But the fact is, I found it hard to depict the boulevard-cruising
scene without some stereotypical reference.  Obviously stereotypes have a
downside, but most stereotypes also have at least a grain of truth to them,
that's how they get started and spread.  That's why I don't get too upset
at non-ravers talking disdainfully about drugged-out ravers, because I know
that while many of us are sober, enough of us are not to make it a valid
generalization for conversational purposes (how d'ya like that for a
grammatical zinger?)  In any case, I didn't mean to say ALL cheerleaders or
jocks were less than wonderful people (something I hoped I wouldn't have to
explain, but apparantly I do.)

>  You say:  Might you also say it doesn't matter who you're eating dinner with
> as long as the food is good?
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Ms. K1dd:  HELL YEAH!!! it's all about good grubbin.

        Well, to each her own I guess.  I think friends make it happen.  If
you can have fun in spite of a shitty vibe, more power to you.  I just hope
that people who do not share your vibe-ignoring abilities are not lured to
events they won't enjoy after reading glowing reviews of the music at
bad-vibe parties.

>So, now what I gotta say is, you suck.

        Of course I do, and I have a lot of fun at it.  ;)-  Ever hear the
Consolidated song about that?

>You say you  weren't gonna talk shit
>about one of my closest freinds?  Well, I better see a woops comin from my
>screen next time I see your name.
>
>Sincerely,
>Ms. K1dd

        I'm sorry if I made you (or Lara) upset, and if I knew where to
find a Woops (that's a Dr. Seuss creature, right?) and make him come out of
your screen, I'd love to do that.

Much love,
                                        <<< Starchild >>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 22:22:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:22:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
To: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
cc: raygun@value.net, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <42ce64c3.34b3c737@aol.com>
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That stuff's great!  I gave it to my odler neice and told her to rub it 
into my sister's carpet!  

She didn't though.  :/

:D


On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, TeKnODiVa wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-06 22:03:19 EST, you write:
> 
> <<   Hon-- do you mean Foam?!...if not then what's floam?. >>
> 
> IT's that Nickelodeon stuff.  Like broken up styrafoam in this gooey substance
> that you can sculpt or just play with like putty.  It feels really neat =)  I
> have some that's day glow orange
> 
>        hugs n'stuff,
>           'trice the tekno diva
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 22:39:55 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7132888.34b40412@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:39:12 EST
To: dreamer@ziplink.net
Cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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In a message dated 98-01-07 16:38:57 EST, you write:

<<       I'd also love to get my hands (or should I say feet?) on a pair of
 those bouncing moon shoes.  I've been told they don't make them anymore,
 probably due to the same liability concerns that prevent so much cool stuff
 in this country from happening.  The only ones I ever saw for sale were
 very flimsy plastic and looked like they would've broken almost
 immediately, but I've seen a couple ravers who had sturdy, durable-looking
 ones, which looked like a total blast to wear! >>

AHH!! I've been trying to get a hold on some of these for a looooonng time.  I
bet even if I did find them they Wouldn't support my weight.  Speaking of
bouncy toys I have this pogo stick with black light responsive markings on it.
Mebbe I will bring it to a party, although It might get heavy to carry arround
=)~*  
ALso.. One of my favorite toys that I forgot to mention was the stuffed alien
from Toy Story that talks and lights up when you squeeze him.  "You have been
chosen... OHHHHH"   When I saw it I didn't have money, and when I did have
money I couldn't find it anymore.  Even Disneyland was out of them.  DOes
anyone know where I can find one.
OH! And always check out the Playskool section at toy stores..;. they have big
colorful plastic toys with not a lot of pieces.  Perfect for parties!!  The
best is this teddy bear that has a heart on his tummy.  When you touch the
heart it lights up.

            hugs n'stuff,
               'trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 22:46:30 1998
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Subject: i dunno if you guys have seen this yet but it's cute...
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yeah, a tad outdated...  but, whatever...


>> >>>                     	  The Set Before Christmas
>> >>>                         or A Visit from DJ Nicholas
>> >>>                     (apologies to Clement Clarke Moore)
>> >>>
>> >>>       'Twas the night before Christmas, and the party was phat,
>> >>>       All the groovers were jumping, no one was on crack;
>> >>>       The bassbins were blasting the fresh funky sounds,
>> >>>       In hopes DJ Nicholas soon would be 'round;
>> >>>
>> >>>       The tunes filled the warehouse with positive vibes,
>> >>>       While visions of glowsticks danced in our eyes;
>> >>>       My friends with their tablets, and I with a cap,
>> >>>       Had just settled down, way too couched to chat,
>> >>>
>> >>>       When beneath the black lights there arose such a beat,
>> >>>       I sprang from the rave sludge and onto my feet.
>> >>>       Away to the speakers to hear better the grooves,
>> >>>       Whipped out my glowsticks and busted some moves.
>> >>>
>> >>>       The Technics had a plate on the slipmat so dope,
>> >>>       It rotated at +8 and filled me with hope,
>> >>>       When, what to my shade-wearing eyes should I see,
>> >>>       A DJ dropping tracks with squealing 303.
>> >>>
>> >>>       With a cut and a backspin, so lively and quick,
>> >>>       I knew in a moment it was DJ Nick.
>> >>>       More rapid than heartbeats his white labels came,
>> >>>       The kids whistled, and shouted, and all went insane;
>> >>>
>> >>>       "Now, JUNGLE! now, GOA!  HOUSE and FUNKY BREAKS!
>> >>>       He gets the crowd pumping whatever it takes!
>> >>>       If the music's da shit then he'll play 'em all!
>> >>>       He keeps the floor shaking, we dance 'till we fall!"
>> >>>
>> >>>       Spotters gathered 'round to check his mad skills,
>> >>>       But ol' Nick has a sound that tickles and thrills,
>> >>>       Soon they couldn't help dancing to beats going down,
>> >>>       Faces plastered with grins, not the usual frowns.
>> >>>
>> >>>       And then, through the dry-ice, I heard a loud thump,
>> >>>       Nicholas was snoozing, his body a lump,
>> >>>       "Wake up, DJ Nick!," was the entire crowd's plea,
>> >>>       Nick's drink had been spiked with heavy GHB.
>> >>>
>> >>>       In his red and white tracksuit he so soundly slept,
>> >>>       The grumpy old ravers laughed and called him inept;
>> >>>       But his nose worked the faders, and he snored to the beat,
>> >>>       Ever the pro, Nick could mix in his sleep.
>> >>>
>> >>>       His eyelids -- they twitched! He was finally awake!
>> >>>       His pupils dilated as he dropped the next break!
>> >>>       This DJ, with goatee as bleached white as snow,
>> >>>       Had the crowd blown away with his kickin'-ass show;
>> >>>
>> >>>       The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
>> >>>       And he filled up the bowl with prime bud, shake and leaf.
>> >>>       Then just as he'd gotten 3 tables to lock,
>> >>>       A low voice shook the room, "This party must stop!"
>> >>>
>> >>>       He was chubby and plump, a right scary old cop,
>> >>>       And it seemed that the evening might end with a flop;
>> >>>       But ol' Nick knew the score, he went over to talk,
>> >>>       And gave me to know I'd no reason to sulk;
>> >>>
>> >>>       Nick reached in his pocket and then with a flash,
>> >>>       Brought out his wallet and a big wad of cash.
>> >>>       The cop gave it back, said "If it's all the same,
>> >>>       I'd rather go off to Hawtin or Richard D. James"
>> >>>
>> >>>       He sprang to his decks, spun the requested tracks,
>> >>>       And when he was finished, disappeared with his wax.
>> >>>       But I heard him exclaim, as he hopped in his jet,
>> >>>       "PLURRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD SET!"
>Happy Holidaze
>Hope Dat Everybodeee Had A Fab New Years
>{Keep the Vibe Alive}
>j
>**sm:)e**


-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."

		--from The History of Magic

do-reeeeee
http://dori.space
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres

-------------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 22:48:22 1998
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Message-ID: <34B4050A.77A5@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:43:22 -0800
From: Sunny <solle@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: SugarShack@mindless.com
Organization: Pablo's Sugar Shack
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To: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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Josh Damon Williams wrote:
> including ellen
> ferrato who plays main room for $ at release (by the way someone was
> asking when was the last time anyone saw a dj dancing their ass off
> during their set... check her out. more energy than her crowd, and her
> crowd is always moving).

Never had the pleasure of seeing Ms. Ferrato do her stuff as she's been
forbidden (as have all of the Release DJs) from playing for competing
promoters by a couple of clowns that go by the initials M&N.  
MORE STUFF THAT'S WRONG WITH THE SCENE.  FYI: The DJs at Release don't
get the big $...the promoters do.  
Believe me, I know first hand.
-SUNNY


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 22:49:24 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:47:15 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: To All You Raver's!
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Hey... Just a note...one more to make me a post whore, rite??

 HUgs n'stuff,
    'trice the tekno diva

In a message dated 98-01-07 17:23:29 EST, you write:

<<          " Fusion, music, & spirit become one.  Intertwined in a
translucent vision, racing up with the sun.  Crusified by the norm, the music
becomes our voice.
 Our resurrection, our common thread, our choice.  Out there we stand alone
 ( different ), yet in here our true identity is found.  Within the music,the
beat we find
 a common ground.  We are part of the mix the music surrounds our soul.  It
 nurishes our primal instincts, it makes us whole.  So darkness falls & thus
begins
 to RAVE.  A celebration of music & of unity, a time when we are no longer
society's
 slave"
  >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 22:54:14 1998
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From: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
To: "'SugarShack@mindless.com'" <SugarShack@mindless.com>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: What is Right in the Scene.
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:51:37 -0800
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i don't think forbidden is the right word. i know it's frowned upon but
keep your eyes open, sunny. ellen is @ electric ave, was @ hiatus, was @
sister, is @ sugar and more that i can't think of.... 


> ----------
> From: 	Sunny
> Reply To: 	SugarShack@mindless.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, January 7, 1998 3:43 PM
> To: 	Josh Damon Williams
> Cc: 	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: 	Re: What is Right in the Scene.
> 
> Josh Damon Williams wrote:
> > including ellen
> > ferrato who plays main room for $ at release (by the way someone was
> > asking when was the last time anyone saw a dj dancing their ass off
> > during their set... check her out. more energy than her crowd, and
> her
> > crowd is always moving).
> 
> Never had the pleasure of seeing Ms. Ferrato do her stuff as she's
> been
> forbidden (as have all of the Release DJs) from playing for competing
> promoters by a couple of clowns that go by the initials M&N.  
> MORE STUFF THAT'S WRONG WITH THE SCENE.  FYI: The DJs at Release don't
> get the big $...the promoters do.  
> Believe me, I know first hand.
> -SUNNY
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 22:58:03 1998
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From: Sounds Good <hernancz@sirius.com>
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Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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Ellen Ferranto is hot.

She is my favorite DJ!

I was there for that NYE party. What a mix of people!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 23:11:40 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48a4b00b.34b40855@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:57:23 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP:UPCOMING PHUNCKATECK RELATED EVENTS
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THE FOLLOWING INFO IS SECTIONED IN TWO PARTS..

CLUB GOINGS ON...
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

THURSDAY, JAN. 8TH
*EKLECTIC*
slinging vinyl: DR. DECENT(NYC)
                       NOEL(PHUNCKATECK)
                       SAGE (PHUNCKATECK/ EKLECTIC/ this b***h kicks a**!!)
KATE O BRIENS
579 HOWARD @ 2ND
10-2
$ 5
21+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SUNDAY, JAN. 11TH
*TRINITY*
servin' licorice pizza: PHUNCKATECKS VERY OWN...
                                   ABSTRACT
                                   UFO
                                   SAGE   
                                   NOEL
KATE O BRIENS(again)
579 HOWARD @ 2ND
10-2
*THREE DOLLARS!!*
21+
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


RAVE RELATED...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

SATURDAY, JAN, 10TH
ACID BREAKS(whoopie)

JUNGLE GROUND ACTION W/: UFO (PHUNCKATECK)
                                            NOEL (PHUNCKATECK)
                                            SAGE (PHUNCKATECK)
                                            RINSE( BASS KRU)
                                            FLUX (BASS KRU)
                                            HAK (SOLID GROOVES/S.J.)
                                            MOSHIE (B.A. UNDERGROUND)

INFO LINES:        415.273.1474---510.986.9227---408.881.0678
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THURSDAY, JAN. 15TH
*SYSTUM CHECK*
W/ UK JUNGLE SCENE ORIGINATORS: DARREN JAY (WEST COAST DEBUT!!)
                                                        MICKEY FINN
                                                        MC GQ
          your usual cast of charaters: FLUX
                                                        RINSE
                                                        PUSH 
                                                        NOEL

*LIMITED PRE-SALE TIX @ HOUSEWEARS--1322 HAIGHT ST. S.F.--415.252.1440*
                                                 *TEN DOLLARS*
10PM-4AM
18+
INFO LINE:    789.7690
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SATURDAY, JAN. 17TH
PLANET ROCK
JUNGLE ROOM PLAYAS: DANNY DA WILD CHILD
                                    R.A.W. (L.A.)
                                    JOSH SWISSMAN & HERETIC (119 CREW/L.A.) 
                                    STAREYES (B.A.S.S. KRU)
                                    ABSTRACT / NOEL / UFO ( U GUESSED IT..)
                                    SIMON APEX (SACRAMENTO/ big ups..)
                                    JETS & NEME
                                    PARADOX

HOMEBASS CONCOURSE
533 HEGENBERGER RD. OAKTOWN

  INFO LINES   415.675.5603---510.869.4137---916.492.5477---408.984.4033 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
MORE TO COME..

                     *PHUNCKATECK INFO LINE 415.331.1500 ext. 160*
 
also...PHUNCKATECK IS MOVING...STAY TUNED!!  

peace,
PHUNCKATECK
PHUNKN3@aol.com                  


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 23:26:35 1998
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:26:19
From: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
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>   Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:20:23 +0000 
>   From: Tony Garcia <deepfog@hooked.net> 
>   Subject: deepfog@macworld 

>Raves in Spain seem unlikely for me in the near future, but
>think of spinning in Barcelona. Like right in the middle of
>a Sim City 2000 simulation where Barcelona has a nuclear
>device explode right in the city and takes everything out.
>What violent thoughts from such a musical mind. 

Eh? Barcelona has a thriving house and techno scene. I've been to a wikked party with Derrick Carter playing in the open air in the middle of the city.
There was a huge summer festival down the road near Castelleon with a big techno tent with the likes of Dave Angel, Luke Slater, Carl Cox, Autechre etc... - then there is the Sonar festival which beats the shit out of anything that's ever happened here - Tribal Gathering but in the sun.
And Gaudi is to buildings what Jeff Mills is to Techno. Pure insanity wandering round Barcelona gawping at the warped genius of a mind that created the buildings.
One word of caution for wary travellers - AVOID their home grown techno. It is happy hardcore industrial cheezy crap that is best steered well clear of.
L8Rs
C@weasel.
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 23:43:00 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <61063e1e.34b41188@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:36:37 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Blind and Deaf Ravers (My last post, I swear!!)
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OK.. did I post about this already?? I can't remember.. Ok.. well

     I was in this place (I don't remember where) with my mom.  Whenever we're
across a crowded room we use sign language to communicate.  It works out
great, no shouting or anything.  ANyways... so this lady that was in the room
mistook me for being deaf.  NOt that it matters, it just made me think one of
those random thoughts that I have.  
    Do you know anyone that raves or clubs that is either deaf or blind?  I'm
interested in hearing about experiences at parties where one of your senses is
not present.  I'm wondering that if you can only feel the bass, not really
hear the music, that the lasers and visuals would still be a really great
experience.  ANd if a person was blind if they could emmerse themselves in the
music to have a great time. They're probably even more oblivious to bad vibes.
(i.e. can't see people dogging them, can't hear people yelling out mean stuff)
    So what are your comments on this?? I have yet to meet a party-goer with
such afflictions, and I'm pretty curious.  Let me know...

     hugs n'stuff,
        'trice

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 07 23:50:34 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Blind and Deaf Ravers (My last post, I swear!!)
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this is a great question!  I know a lot of ravers who are more-or-less 
deaf from spending too much time in the bassbins... but I dont think they 
count :D

-Uncle Noah
"What!?!??  Could you speak up?!!?"

PS:  I had to get my hearing tested for work adn they played this series 
of tones that got higher and higher in frequency through some headphones 
and I had to hit a button when I heard them, liek I was about to answer a 
question on Jeopardy or something (Yes Art, I'll take Drum & Bass for 400 
please!).  Anyway, might right ear tested out fairly normal, but my left 
ear (the one I mix in) was like Super Ear. :D  I had totally trained it 
to hear all those high 303 tweaks n'stuff so I was hearing like a dog in 
that ear! :D :D :D :D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 00:13:44 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:16:27 -0800
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From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: toontown review
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At Luckey Layne Loomis'  suggestion, me and my best girl Jam-Master Jamie
went to toontown, ate a square meal, and hit the floor.

great party.  i didn't catch any bad vibes.  lots more people dancing than
I'm used to seeing at big parties.  lots of BEAUTIFUL dancers, boys & girls
alike.  not too crowded--there were  probably not enough heads to fill the
promoters' bank accounts, but perfect for taking those acid leaps and
bounds,  gleeful psychedelic pirhouettes across the floor.  the lightshows
were great,  particularly in the back-back room where Galen of Sunset
played.

The volume level on the main dancefloor was PERFECT for most  of the night.
No ego-driven DJ's trying to blast us to kingdom come.  Nice, solid sound
pushed to the threshold and not an inch further.

A couple of good-natured breakdancing competions; I cleared the floor with
my patented Boomerang NoseSpin.    didn't  meet any meanies.  a couple of
older kids were there...Phred Heutte, F. Fish, et. al.   JonDabomb Wishnev,
back from London with frosted hair and decidedly English  sideburns.  There
wasn't any deepheavy trance or techno, most was kind of bouncy and
uncomplicated, lots of pianos and horns...maybe this was why everything was
cheerful...?


  b
   o
   o
 m
e
r
a
n
g    H
    ERE               http://www.slip.net/~hatfyr
   ARETH
  EFACTSYO
 UREQUESTED       -enlarged for easy listening-

\\\///\\\///\\\///\\//\\//\/\/\\/\\//\\//\\\///\\\///\\\///
        "...the end of all our exploring
        will be to arrive where we started
        and know the place for the first time."
                             - t.s. eliot



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 00:30:13 1998
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To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Blind and Deaf Ravers (My last post, I swear!!)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:29:00 -0800
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TeKnODiVa wrote:

<sniper>
    So what are your comments on this?? I have yet to meet a party-goer
with
such afflictions, and I'm pretty curious.  Let me know...
 -==-=-=-

one of the best hiphop dancers I've ever worked with was deaf and
(shock!) a non-drinker (well back then it was still shocking)
but as cute as a button and the music was so loud he could feel the
vibes through dancing boxes (when working with deaf kids sometimes you
can have them sit on a speaker or hold balloons to feel the vibrations
of the music) and watching the other dancers.for the softer tunes. He
was amazing and quite a treat to watch

sister kitty

 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 00:35:54 1998
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From: Fumbler151 <Fumbler151@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9073cd2e.34b41e4c@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:30:46 EST
To: Vortexbrad@aol.com
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?(please read)
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In a message dated 98-01-06 07:35:31 EST, you write:

> when their payment was finally made to them (5 hrs
>  late) via personal check. Subsequent verification for funds revealed what 
> all
>  hoped would not come to pass: INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.  


       did anyone stop to consider the reasons why the account that the checks
were drawn on showed insufficient funds? i worked at bank of america for 2
years and i know that it was often called upon for us to place a standard hold
on funds that were deposited into an account. a standard hold could last from
3 to 5 business days. sometimes when a hold is placed on the funds you
deposit, a small amount of the funds (usually $300) are available for you to
use until the hold is taken off. there are other types of holds that require a
longer period of time than the standard hold. also, when you deposit a large
amount of cash into an account, there are IRS forms that must be filled out.
these forms record the number of each particular bill. they can also delay the
funds getting into the account that they need to be in. these are the
standards for bank of america, so you can pretty much assume that other banks
follow the same guidelines.
     since the party went down on wednesday, the money that was made could not
have been deposited on thursday because it was a bank holiday. if the money
was deposited on friday and a hold was placed on the funds, then the account
would show NSF until the hold is taken off.
       i'm not trying to start a flame war. so, save your posts of rage. i'm
merely offering up a view into the complicated world of banking procedures.
 
that's my $.02,
dorena

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 00:40:36 1998
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From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
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oh yes, and I forgot...there was a man dancing around in his underpants.

b))merang


>At Luckey Layne Loomis'  suggestion, me and my best girl Jam-Master Jamie
>went to toontown, ate a square meal, and hit the floor.
>
>great party.  i didn't catch any bad vibes.  lots more people dancing than
>I'm used to seeing at big parties.  lots of BEAUTIFUL dancers, boys & girls
>alike.  not too crowded--there were  probably not enough heads to fill the
>promoters' bank accounts, but perfect for taking those acid leaps and
>bounds,  gleeful psychedelic pirhouettes across the floor.  the lightshows
>were great,  particularly in the back-back room where Galen of Sunset
>played.
>
>The volume level on the main dancefloor was PERFECT for most  of the night.
>No ego-driven DJ's trying to blast us to kingdom come.  Nice, solid sound
>pushed to the threshold and not an inch further.
>
>A couple of good-natured breakdancing competions; I cleared the floor with
>my patented Boomerang NoseSpin.    didn't  meet any meanies.  a couple of
>older kids were there...Phred Heutte, F. Fish, et. al.   JonDabomb Wishnev,
>back from London with frosted hair and decidedly English  sideburns.  There
>wasn't any deepheavy trance or techno, most was kind of bouncy and
>uncomplicated, lots of pianos and horns...maybe this was why everything was
>cheerful...?
>
>
>  b
>   o
>   o
> m
>e
>r
>a
>n
>g    H
>    ERE               http://www.slip.net/~hatfyr
>   ARETH
>  EFACTSYO
> UREQUESTED       -enlarged for easy listening-
>
>\\\///\\\///\\\///\\//\\//\/\/\\/\\//\\//\\\///\\\///\\\///
>        "...the end of all our exploring
>        will be to arrive where we started
>        and know the place for the first time."
>                             - t.s. eliot



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 01:02:11 1998
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Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?(please read)
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Dorena,

Nice try.  Most ravers have a heart of gold; and really want to give
others the benefit of the doubt.  You sound like you are doing your best
to figure out some reason to explain Nomad's latest rape of our rave
scene.  

I am willing to gamble that the bank didn't cause the rubber-checks.  If
the bank is responsible for the rubber checks, then it is still a shame
on Tom and Stacey to not perform their business functions in a timely
and professional manner.  

I think the silence created by their non-participation in this very
thread is indicative of how they feel about you and your wondering about
why people were not paid.  I am sure they are off confidentially
counting their money and scheming for their next attempt to steal more
of you kiddies cash.  It is so easy for them to take your money.  Like
taking candy from a raver....

Diana Greer
I am not judging you as stupid.  I got burned by them too, and I even
knew better at the time, but I bought a ticket anyway...

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 01:30:21 1998
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Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?(please read)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:29:00 -0800
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>  hoped would not come to pass: INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.
 ------
Fumbler151 wrote:

       did anyone stop to consider the reasons why the account that the
checks
were drawn on showed insufficient funds? i worked at bank of america for
2
years and i know that it was often called upon for us to place a
standard hold
on funds that were deposited into an account. a standard hold could last
from
3 to 5 business days. sometimes when a hold is placed on the funds you
deposit, a small amount of the funds (usually $300) are available for
you to
use until the hold is taken off. there are other types of holds that
require a
longer period of time <snip>
 -=-==-=
tis very true, I've been in banking for 5 years now and it's a common
practice with checks and special situations. Holds do happen but it's a
predictable thing that these business folks are probably well should be
well versed in

and holds are almost never involved with cash transactions; if you make
a deposit before close of day friday the credit is there sat, if the
deposit is mad sat it's counted with mondays work (the next business
day) and shows on tuesday.

regardless I'm willing to bet that most if not all paid at the door not
w/check or credit card but good ol fashioned green backs

If the organizers wanted to they can pay all with cash in most
circumstances (it is a business practice not to but not with a business
that writes rubber checks) and something I hope the few of you who want
tyo work with them will insist upon.

sister kitty


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 02:13:41 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:13:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Faro <Faro@usa.net>
cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
In-Reply-To: <19980107140459.19022.qmail@dns01.ops.usa.net>
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  acting like *yourself* and others accepting you for who *you really are*
and not who they want you to be.
                              -Reagan




On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Faro wrote:

> 	It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the 
> scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the 
> scene.
> 
> Thanks
> -Faro
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 02:15:45 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:15:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: blkadder@value.net
cc: Rebecca L Cardennis <ldylove@juno.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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  Hey now..I thought you were only Butthead's agent??...;)




On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 blkadder@value.net wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Rebecca L Cardennis wrote:
> 
> > If we are voting,  I will put one in for Reagan's head.  That pretty red
> > color and its so soft and fuzzy, way better than any elmo, might have to
> > try it as an e-toy though, some day if we ever go to the same party
> > maybe. 
> 
> I claim all rights to the aforementioned head. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 02:18:18 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:17:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Christopher Porter <cporter@exploretech.com>
cc: blkadder@value.net, Rebecca L Cardennis <ldylove@juno.com>,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: WhaT's YouR FaVoRiTE RaVe Toy???
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  yeah...all the best go unpaid!....=(...




On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Christopher Porter wrote:

> >Rebecca L Cardennis wrote:
> > If we are voting,  I will put one in for Reagan's head.  That pretty red
> > color and its so soft and fuzzy, way better than any elmo, might have to
> > try it as an e-toy though, some day if we ever go to the same party
> > maybe. 
> 
> >Then At 11:57 AM 1/7/98 -0800, blkadder@value.net wrote:
> >I claim all rights to the aforementioned head.  :-)
> 
> Cool!  You should licence the rights to my company.  We can make replica Reagan Head toys and sell'em for 10 bucks at the SpaceNomads party!!  We'll make a killing, hide the money and not pay Reagan anything!  
> 
> Now, what should we call this toy?  How'bout Red Hedz... Or Raygin's Noggins?
> 
> Surely I Jest... Surly..
> 
> --ChrisP
> 
> Chris Porter
> Customer Support coordinator
> Explore Technologies
> 408-654-3846, 8-5 PST.
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 02:24:02 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Faro <Faro@usa.net>
cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
In-Reply-To: <19980107140459.19022.qmail@dns01.ops.usa.net>
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there's right or wrong in the scene?

if so
do NOT enlighten me with the list of RAVING RULES
because i don't play by any rules
i go with what is in my heart.
ya'all can have your damn rules
i'll just keep smiling ignorantly
raving how i want to :)
xo
lara

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Faro wrote:

> 	It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the 
> scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the 
> scene.
> 
> Thanks
> -Faro
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 02:39:31 1998
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Yeah, i know those Nomad people-we threw Quest at their space-they're dicks.






On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Neves, Kathleen wrote:

> Among all these other problems surfacing around Nomad's Origin party 
> on NYE, about people not getting paid, the space being totally packed, 
> etc. etc. Did anyone happen to notice the fact that Mark Farina did 
> not play the 5 hour set as promised? Was anyone bothered by that? I 
> know I was. I think it was more like a two hour set that ended with 
> the record constantly skipping and stopping. The guy who played 
> directly after him seemed to do fine. So what is the deal? Anyone 
> know? I don't buy the "there was a problem with Mark Farina's mixer 
> story". I feel that was a cop out. Anyone?
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 02:42:48 1998
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Hey - What are Tom and Stacey's last name?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 02:43:05 1998
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From: Jonathan Schiller Serviss <yankee@cats.ucsc.edu>
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To: mira@wellsfargo.com
cc: Vortexbrad@aol.com, lara@vibe.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
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yeah i'm telling yah, Nomad production people are shady, not to mention 
not very smart either.






On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:

> hi lara!!....  *8)
> 
> 
> just a quick comment on your note below...wanted to say that the space
> where they held the party is owned by the promoters...they did much more
> than break even...and i can tell you first hand, it's sad to see that a
> sucky party like this may make talented dj's like johnny fiasco never
> play in sf again.  it's amazing to think that these promoters (i'm not
> gonna name-game) can have the audacity to do something like this and
> believe that they can retain their credibility...
> 
> an example of where their intentions are....in their pockets...>smirk<
> 
> 
> 
> miragirl
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Vortexbrad [SMTP:Vortexbrad@aol.com]
> > Sent:	Monday, January 05, 1998 8:01 AM
> > To:	lara@vibe.org; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > Subject:	Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?
> > 
> > 
> > In a message dated 1/5/98 7:30:05 AM, you wrote:
> > 
> > >Just to let you know,
> > >alot of times parties don't break even
> > >and the first thing that doesn't get paid is teh entertainment
> > providers.
> > >I've seen friends walk away from gigs they busted their ass playing
> > >emptyhanded when promised a fee. 
> > >Toontown for example, left a handful of dj's unpaid.
> > >There's no contract signed, from what I understand, so promoters CAN
> > and
> > >WILL refuse to pay if they didn't make enough money. It sucks dick,
> > yeah,
> > >but that's the way it is I guess. Some DJ's don't mind as they just
> > enjoy
> > >playing out.
> > >Hope everyone gets paid @ Origin. :)
> > 
> > thanks for your reply lara, and i am well aware of the difficulties in
> > promoting large events, having done so many times in the past. Please
> > understand that there was a contract signed with Nomad. But the
> > presence of a
> > contract or not, this type of treatment of artists and technicians is
> > one
> > reason why rave/house culture has not taken strong root in this
> > country. To
> > put on a show without being able to cover your expenses up front is
> > poor
> > business and passes the financial responsibility of a successful show
> > onto
> > those that were hired to perform and tech. This is WRONG. It takes
> > lots of
> > money to put on shows like this and to pretend that it does not is
> > also WRONG.
> > 
> > Peace, and thanks for your response
> > 
> > --vortexbrad
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 02:45:12 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-07-98 21:21

like they say lara, ignorance is indeed sometimes bliss...just had a thought of
the 1 million ravers in Germany outdoors just goin' off like lunatics...man,
what a powerful thing this is in our lives...

aloha,
moki


---- Included Message ----

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Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
Cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org 
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there's right or wrong in the scene?

if so
do NOT enlighten me with the list of RAVING RULES
because i don't play by any rules
i go with what is in my heart.
ya'all can have your damn rules
i'll just keep smiling ignorantly
raving how i want to :)
xo
lara

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Faro wrote:

> 	It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the 
> scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the 
> scene.
> 
> Thanks
> -Faro
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 03:21:26 1998
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On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:39:12 -0800 (PST) Jonathan Schiller Serviss
<yankee@cats.ucsc.edu> writes:
>
>Yeah, i know those Nomad people-we threw Quest at their space-they're 
>dicks.


can some one clear this up for me? Does nomad own or lease
the space at 2nd and jackson.

And are these the same people that own the store in the north bay?

An are they connected to nomad graphics that do so many of the flyers?

thanks

	><{{{">   <"}}}><

		foolish fish



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 03:30:14 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
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my only comment on this would have to be

that you say that vibe is timeless but the type of muysic i listen to will
change..
well

that's what i love so much about music... it's forever changing.. getting
better...

my passion for music will last my lifetime... and beyond..:)
thanks for your words starchild.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 03:42:45 1998
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Banks have different rules for personal and business accounts also.
As sister kitty noted, cash deposits are immediately available for
withdrawal in any event.

phred

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 04:00:41 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:58:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: slackers (NRR)
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has anyone else seen that car commercial where 2 business men are napping
in their car until the last minute, then fix their ties, drive their asses
back to work and go back to work?

that's TOTALLY ME!!!
i sleep during my lunchbreaks if/when possible!
is that SLACKER or WHAT? hahaha:)
just wanted to know if i was the only one out there who does this.
xo
lara


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 04:06:05 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=lara+40vibe+2Eorg+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of 01-07-98 22:43

{{{{{{{{{{lara}}}}}}}}}}

I'd like to go to happE Kids one year and kick it...I'm thinking about coming
up for my friend Ramiro's party on Feb. 14th called "Sunshine Daydream" with
Doc Martin, Steve Loria, Mark Farina, Riddler, Tosh, etc.  Trying to work out
the funds right after the holiday season is kinda tight.  Where do you live out
there?  I usually stay around the Nob Hill area about a block from the Ritz at
my buddy's pad.  What's the scoop on the vibe at Happy Kids?

BTW, I'm mostly a house head and I was wondering if you or anyone else got
tapes to trade.  I got tapes from NYC, Chicago, Brazil, all over.  Let me know
'cause I definitely like to feel the flow from different dj's.  Peace in ya
hood...

aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com


---- Included Message ----

Received: 01-07-98 20:42                         Sent: 01-07-98 22:43 
From: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=lara+40vibe+2Eorg+3B@apollogrp.edu
To: Steven_Allas smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu 
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=lara+40vibe+2Eorg+3B@apollogrp.edu
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ignorance can cause alot of shit.
but ignorance in this case..
well i'd reatehr dance around like a fool than worry about if i'm
practicing "rave etiquette" hehe :)
are you planning to go to happy kids 1 year?
if so, i hope to see you there!
xo
lara

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:

> In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-07-98 21:21
> 
> like they say lara, ignorance is indeed sometimes bliss...just had a thought of
> the 1 million ravers in Germany outdoors just goin' off like lunatics...man,
> what a powerful thing this is in our lives...
> 
> aloha,
> moki
> 
> 
> ---- Included Message ----
> 
> Received: 01-07-98 19:19                         Sent: 01-07-98 21:21 
> From: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol
> To: Faro Faro@usa.net 
> Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
> Cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org 
> Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apollogrp+2Eedu+40hyperreal+2Eorg+3B@apollogrp.edu
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> 
> 
> there's right or wrong in the scene?
> 
> if so
> do NOT enlighten me with the list of RAVING RULES
> because i don't play by any rules
> i go with what is in my heart.
> ya'all can have your damn rules
> i'll just keep smiling ignorantly
> raving how i want to :)
> xo
> lara
> 
> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Faro wrote:
> 
> > 	It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the 
> > scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the 
> > scene.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > -Faro
> > 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 04:26:27 1998
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-07-98 22:58


i sleep during my lunchbreaks if/when possible!
is that SLACKER or WHAT? hahaha:)

<nah, your lunchtime is yours to do as you please...you're just getting much
needed rest right?...I do the same thing at work on my break, there's a nice
dark room and I have a pillow that is a roll of unused toilet paper, talk about
slacker!...I don't even bring a real pillow, so no tell me ah...>

just wanted to know if i was the only one out there who
does this. 
xo
lara

<but does that mean you don't eat lunch on your break?...I need to eat most
definitely...I got studyin' to do tonight and I was out late last
night...ugh!...hope I can make it, and get this, I don't drink anything with
caffeine so my friends think I'm the alien Mulder's been looking for all this
time...peace...>

aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 04:58:52 1998
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The Glad Hand
live electronic music

Tuesday January 13, 8:30pm $5 21+
@ Justice League 628 Divisadero

performing live: 
Halou
Junior Varsity KM
Skoop

dropping the beats:
DJ Monkey
DJ Radon 



415.440.0409

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 05:11:15 1998
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References: holmannh@wellsfargo.com        "Re: Nomad Interactive: No
 Pay?(please read)" (Jan  7,  5:29pm)
 <199801080126.RAA25840@unixm2.WellsFargo.Com>
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From: "Wayne" <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?(please read)
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At 7:42 PM -0800 1/7/98, Fred Heutte wrote:
>Banks have different rules for personal and business accounts also.
>As sister kitty noted, cash deposits are immediately available for
>withdrawal in any event.
>
>phred

If they took in cash at the door (and it's inevitable that they did) and
they were holding all this cash (they must have been) then why did they pay
by check?

I postulate that is could have been willful fraud, plain and simple. If
that's the case, I wonder if this party was indeed their last great hurrah
and they did in fact flee the state with their ill-gotten gains? From their
perspective, this was their own version of "Fuck you San Francisco."

I suggest every person who's holding a rubber check from Nomad contact the
Alameda County District Attorney's Office immediately as passing that many
bad checks to that many people all at the same time smells like
(criminally) intentful fraud, and they'd probably prosecure the case.

While you're doing that, you should also suggest that they get their
permits pulled for creating an unsafe events at their space (6 security vs.
the 20 mandated by their permits) as well as file complaints with the
better business bureau, the Oakland PD, Oakland Chamber Of Commerce, and
the city planning commission.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 05:13:01 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:06:10 EST
To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  moki4u2c@hotmail.com
Subject:  Re: slackers (NRR)
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In a message dated 1/7/98 9:30:45 PM, you wrote:

<<ugh!...hope I can make it, and get this, I don't drink anything with
caffeine so my friends think I'm the alien Mulder's been looking for all this
time...peace...>

aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com>>

Right on!! Me & caffeine don't get along too well either, yet still my middle
name is like, Energizer Bunny   hehee
I have *tons* of nervous energie =D

luv n hugs
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 05:19:43 1998
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:21:36 -0800
From: Sounds Good <hernancz@sirius.com>
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR: Space Nomad's obtain Navy Blimp hangers! 
References: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980107124258.14760A-100000@value.net>
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> SpaceNomads will team up with McDonalds(tm) and become McNomads(tm). The
> same business model that was used to make McDonalds great will be applied
> to McNomads.

Not exactly, people can find the beef in a McDonalds Burger. We at Space Nomads have no 
such obligations.


But listen up we have obtained exclusive entertainment rights to the Blimp Hangers!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 07:25:13 1998
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980107225711.5412H-100000@linux.announce.com> from "lara at vibe.org" at Jan 7, 98 10:58:28 pm
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> that's TOTALLY ME!!!
> i sleep during my lunchbreaks if/when possible!

I'll be sure to note this on my timesheet ;-)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 08:23:47 1998
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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:42:11 -0800
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First of all, we would like to thank everyone for their concern
regarding the Origin New Years eve party. Thank you to everyone who came
out to support the party. Also, I woulds like to thank all the people
who worked so hard to put everything together. We are happy to provide
any information which might help to alleviate any concerns anybody has
with regards to what happened the night of the party.


Basically there were some problems. Mainly there were more people inside
the facility than tickets counted at the door. We are not pointing
fingers, but we can safely say that there was a major security probem.
In essence we contracted a security company who was an approved vendor
of the City of Oakland as required by the permit process. They were
contracted to provide 15-20 security personnel, but only showed up with
9 guards. This left the party vulnerable to public safety issues. In
addition, they left a major exit area unmanned for most of the night
thus allowing people to enter the facility without paying. We became
aware of the situation after it was too late. In addition the head of
security quit at 12:30 am claiming he couldn't take the pressure. We
have sent a letter to the security company as well as the City of
Oakland stating the particular problems which we faced the night of and
we will be persuing further action if need be. 

Yes we were shortstaffed, yes we incurred some huge due to the fact that
a great number of people entered the party without paying. We incurred
huge financial loses when in fact this should have been a tremendous
financial success. Unfortunately, we did not have enough additional
funds on hand the night of to take care of certain committments. Many
people were paid in full, others were given a huge deposit upfront, yet
some were not paid yet, but we have spoken to everyone and have made
arrangements to take care of our financial committments as soon as
possible. Granted we weren't able to communicate as much as we would
have liked to during the party because we were so busy dealing with
security issues and the local authorities. Our line of communication
with everyone concerned has been ongoing.

Someone mentioned that Mark Farina did not perform for 5 hours as
promised. The reason for this was that Johnny Fiasco was delayed at his
hotel because he couldn't find a taxicab and there was a forty minute
wait. When he did arrive Mark was kind enough to share his time slot
with him. We personally spoke with Johnny Fiasco in the morning and he
understood how crazy things had gotten that night. He was only upset
with the inconveniences which he had to face in order to get to the
party and not being able to communicate with us because we were so busy.

Other problems we faced had to deal with several production people
promising to have things set up in a timely manner and not following
through with their committments.

 We were severely understaffed, some of the production people were not
on time and ready at the times they promised they would be. Delays
occured due to the fact that everyone wanted use of the same equipmwent
at the same time when in fact we scheduled the use of the equipment to
begin two days before the party.  We were unable to complete any of our
own props and decorations due to these delays on the production end.We
are not blaming anyone. Things often go wrong despite all the planning. 
The Origin party drew in a record number of people; more than we
anticipated. Thankfully, noone was injured and the party went on all
night. We do want to thank everyone who helped out during the night and
we are extremely grateful to everyone for their time and their good
will.  

Can most of you relate to the difficulty in obtaining proper venues for
parties? Can you relate to greedy space owners trying to take advantage
of promoters and pitting them against each other in an effort to find
the highest bidder. There are different politics involved at every level
of the scene and many people are naive and easily persuaded to believe
one thing or another. This is one of the reasons we acquired the 2nd and
Jackson facility; to be able to have a safe and secure space and to be
able to co-share the space with other promoters who want to create
something positive and share it with others.

We are good people, we care very much about the scene and we are not fly
by night promoters. We do take care of our obligations. Due to
unforeseen circumstances beyond our control, we were unable to meet some
of our obligations the night of.

If anyone who has posted recently on this matter would like to discuss
things in more detail, please call us and leave your number on our
infoline. We will call back and speak with you personally.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 08:34:21 1998
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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:52:49 -0800
From: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>
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First of all, we would like to thank everyone for their concern
regarding the Origin New Years eve party. Thank you to everyone who came
out to support the party. Also, we woulds like to thank all the people
who worked so hard to put everything together. I am happy to provide any
information which might help to alleviate any concerns anybody has with
regards to what happened the night of the party.


Basically there were some problems. Mainly there were more people inside
the facility than tickets counted at the door. We are not pointing
fingers, but we can safely say that there was a major security probem.
In essence we contracted a security company who was an approved vendor
of the City of Oakland as required by the permit process. They were
contracted to provide 15-20 security personnel, but only showed up with
9 guards. This left the party vulnerable to public safety issues. In
addition, they left a major exit area unmanned for most of the night
thus allowing people to enter the facility without paying. We became
aware of the situation after it was too late. In addition the head of
security quit at 12:30 am claiming he couldn't take the pressure. We
have sent a letter to the security company as well as the City of
Oakland stating the particular problems which we faced the night of and
we will be persuing further action if need be. 

Yes we were shortstaffed, yes we incurred some huge due to the fact that
a great number of people entered the party without paying. We incurred
huge financial loses when in fact this should have been a tremendous
financial success. Unfortunately, we did not have enough additional
funds on hand the night of to take care of certain committments. Many
people were paid in full, others were given a huge deposit upfront, yet
some were not paid yet, but we have spoken to everyone and have made
arrangements to take care of our financial committments as soon as
possible. Granted we weren't able to communicate as much as we would
have liked to during the party because we were so busy dealing with
security issues and the local authorities. Our line of communication
with everyone concerned has been ongoing.

Someone mentioned that Mark Farina did not perform for 5 hours as
promised. The reason for this was that Johnny Fiasco was delayed at his
hotel because he couldn't find a taxicab and there was a forty minute
wait. When he did arrive Mark was kind enough to share his time slot
with him. We personally spoke with Johnny Fiasco in the morning and he
understood how crazy things had gotten that night. He was only upset
with the inconveniences which he had to face in order to get to the
party and not being able to communicate with us because we were so busy.

Other problems we faced had to deal with several production people
promising to have things set up in a timely manner and not following
through with their committments.

 We were severely understaffed, some of the production people were not
on time and ready at the times they promised they would be. Delays
occured due to the fact that everyone wanted use of the same equipmwent
at the same time when in fact we scheduled the use of the equipment to
begin two days before the party.  We were unable to complete any of our
own props and decorations due to these delays on the production end. We
are not blaming anyone. Things often go wrong despite all the planning. 
The Origin party drew in a record number of people; more than we
anticipated. Thankfully, noone was injured and the party went on all
night. We do want to thank everyone who helped out during the night and
we are extremely grateful to everyone for their time and their good
will.  

Can most of you relate to the difficulty in obtaining proper venues for
parties? Can you relate to greedy space owners trying to take advantage
of promoters and pitting them against each other in an effort to find
the highest bidder. There are different politics involved at every level
of the scene and many people are naive and easily persuaded to believe
one thing or another. This is one of the reasons we acquired the 2nd and
Jackson facility; to be able to have a safe and secure space and to be
able to co-share the space with other promoters who want to create
something positive and share it with others.

We are good people, we care very much about the scene and we are not fly
by night promoters. We do take care of our obligations. Due to
unforeseen circumstances beyond our control, we were unable to meet some
of our obligations the night of.

If anyone who has posted recently on this matter would like to discuss
things in more detail, please call us and leave your number on our
infoline. We will call back and speak with you personally.

Thank you again,
Nomad Interactive

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 10:45:51 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:45:40 +0000
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> We are happy to provide any information which might help to 
> alleviate any concerns anybody has with regards to what happened the 
> night of the party.

	Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the 
rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a 
party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put 
our minds at ease.

-Faro

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 11:11:12 1998
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From: "Faro" <Faro@usa.net>
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:11:03 +0000
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Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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	My own little story on what is right in the scene:

	I attended the now infamous Origin NYE.. and had a good time there. 
But, I managed to wear myself out.. and took a break and sat down for 
a while to rest. A girl who had been dancing near me for a bit came 
over after I'd been there for about 15 mins and asked why  I wasn't 
dancing, and if I needed any help. I assured her that I was ok.. 
and was just taking a break. She smiled.. and said ok.. and went back 
to dancing. About 5 mins. later.. I was still there so she came back, 
concern on her face, and asked if I was *sure* I was ok, or if I 
needed some water or something. I repeated that I was ok.. but I was 
thankful for her concern.. And she gave me a big Happy New Years 
Hug.    
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

	To me this is the essence of what is right out there in the  scene. 
Out in the rest of society.. it is most often a dog eat dog world 
where people are to busy looking out for themselves to care about 
anyone else, but here.. people care. I did not know her.. and she did 
not know me, but she still took the time to show concern and  make 
sure I was alright. No ulterior motives.. No pursuit of personal 
gain.. No facade of "I'm too cool to worry about others"...  Just 
genuine CARING.
  
-Faro

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 18:04:51 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: ORIGIN- facts
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On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, thenomad wrote:

> a great number of people entered the party without paying. We incurred
> huge financial loses when in fact this should have been a tremendous
> financial success. Unfortunately, we did not have enough additional
> funds on hand the night of to take care of certain committments. Many
> people were paid in full, others were given a huge deposit upfront, yet
> some were not paid yet, but we have spoken to everyone and have made
> arrangements to take care of our financial committments as soon as
> possible. 

[Tale of woe deleted]

If you incurred a huge loss as you say, then what were you doing writing
checks you must have known would not clear? Deliberately writing a bad
check is fraud. And obviously you did not speak to *everyone*, because
someone took the time to relate their story or rubber checks here.

					Black Adder


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 19:02:42 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:05:08 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re:  Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
Cc: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
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Dear SFRavefriends,

SolR shared:

>At 01:27 AM 1/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>OK i guess my definition of vibe is the overall attitude of the CROWD. not
>>the MUSIC.
>****
>I agree.
>
>I also agree that the music *can* enhance the vibe.. but when i refer to a
>party... the music is the music, and the vibe is the overall energy  given
>off by the crowd there.

        This is my understanding of vibe too.

>people are pretty much either "so happy to be here" or "tired of being
>here", and this is the energy of the  crowd.  granted, that can be
>manipulated slightly via auditory dopeness... but when it comes right down
>to it, either you're having a good time, or you're not. that's "vibe" to me.
>
>peace2enhanceTHAvibe,
>-SolR

        I believe vibe is more complex than simply whether a person is
having a good time or not, although there's definitely a correlation
between the vibe and the amount of fun being had.

        Some people manage to exude quite a good vibe even when they are
not feeling that great, as in Smoky Robinson's song "Tears Of A Clown".

        Then there are others whose idea of a good time is kicking the shit
out of somebody, or otherwise making people around them miserable.  A bunch
of loud, drunk, obnoxious yahoos at a party may be having the time of their
life, but what they are projecting is not my idea of a good vibe.

May the vibe be with us,
                                        <<< Starchild >>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 19:23:16 1998
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 11:20:58 -0800
To: Faro@usa.net
From: Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com>
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts 
Cc: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 02:45 AM 1/8/98 +0000, Faro wrote:
>
>> We are happy to provide any information which might help to 
>> alleviate any concerns anybody has with regards to what happened the 
>> night of the party.
>
>	Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the 
>rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a 
>party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put 
>our minds at ease.
>
>-Faro

I second this motion.  Also, a clear idea of how many tickets were counted
versus people unpaid would be very helpful.  Most of the "facts" given in
your post are extremely vague.

Thanks,
Seth

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 19:30:58 1998
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From: dj radon <radon@kzsu.Stanford.EDU>
To: sfravers <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: bsp: come see me at glad hand
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hey everyone.

I'm djing at the Justice League in san francisco on tuesday. It's my 
first club gig, so you should all come out and make me nervous. 
Unfortunately, it's 21+, so bust out your IDs if you're not-yet-legal.
Apparently, there's some "bands" playing, and I'll be playing jungle 
rekkids in between bands and/or after all the bands are finished (around 
12:30am?). Anyhow, here's the info (as seen on the sfraves calendar):

Tuesday, January 13rd - The Glad Hand
Halou (live), Junior Varsity KM, Skoop (live), DJ Monkey, DJ Radon (KZSU).
8:30p-2a, 21+, $5. Justice League, 628 Divisadero, SF.
                                                 415.440.0409

drum'n'bass in 98,
-dj radon

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 19:39:25 1998
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To: The Family I Love So Much <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Faro wrote:
> 
>  Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a
> party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put
> our minds at ease.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think asking to see receipts is going too far, and besides, the letter
from Nomad doesn't change a darn thing.  Nomad is still guilty as
charged for knowingly writing rubber checks to the people who worked for
them.  Nomad's tale of sadness and "poor me" eight days later does not
make them immune to being responsible for their business contracts. 
Remember Nomad, a verbal promise is just as binding as a formally
written contract on paper.)  Nomad; if the security people you did
business with screwed you then do something about it.  Take them to
court.  How lame of you to try to pass on the bullshit to the kids that
worked for you!  That action right there indicates your complete and
utter lack of respect for this scene.  You had cash in hand from the
door, why didn't you use that for the dj's?  What kind of crybaby story
are you going to have to make up now?

Diana Greer

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 19:52:02 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:44:59 -0800 (PST)
From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Best of 97**
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Well there was a little thread that I saw about the
"Best parties of 97" I did not see that much input
about it but thought I would list SOME not all of my
Fav's of 97. (In no paticular order)

Harmony (All of them past and present)
Viberation
Lepidoptera
Pro-Soy
Cloud factory
Abyss (cough dusty)
Experience (All FGE parties + my first big party
playing out)
Warmth (I think first UG playing out?)
Wonder
Gate 30
play nice
@spire
XOR Mixing lab (ON NYE)
MAD
Gatherings


There are a bunch more but it is lunch time have to
eat you know..

Peace,
Macadio









From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 19:52:09 1998
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From: "Zza" <JLACZKO@us.oracle.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: rE: slackers (NRR)
Cc: lara@vibe.org
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>>is that SLACKER or WHAT? hahaha:) 
 
Not at all!!  I'm pretty sure it's been shown 
that people are more productive if they nap at midday. 
 
Plus it's just a society/cultural labeling. Kinda 
like Americans saying Japanese businesspeople are 
fitness nuts for doing calisthenics during the day. 
 
But yes I see people napping in their cars from time to time. 
It kinda annoys me because I'm usually looking for a parking spot 
at that time. Yep, I roll into work quite often at noon... 
 
That may grounds for slackerdom :) 
 
 
zza

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 20:11:16 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Vibe Theory
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Derived from the theory of Vibe Relativity:

All this esoteric talk about Vibe.  Vibe is simply short for vibration of
energy through mass.  Each particle (person) has internal vibe/energy  which
must resonate with external vibe/energy.  If both internal/external energy
are in homeostasis there is "good vibe".   However, if either internal or
external energy level is deficient OR excessive then vibe can be in
disequilibrium. This can lead to "bad vibe".  As you can see, internal and
external vibe can merge like two wavelengths and become one (excellent!).


 Each particle has it's unique internal vibe which must find the correct
resonating external vibe to harmonize (this is why we sometimes have
different definitions of good vibe).  Otherwise, there is just internal vibe
or static vibe (this "no vibe") which is fine if you are dancing and
creating your own world. 

good vibe = you (internal) and everyone else (external) around is in
resonance - Ecstatic!
no vibe = you are your own resonance without much external effect - still
happy if you like yourself.
bad vibe = someone is negatively affecting your resonance e.g.. throwing
rocks at you while you dance : (   not happy.

that's my "scientific"  hee hee  stance on vibe.

love!
Terri


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 20:11:41 1998
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I guess eight days after the fact isn't too late for an NYE review, so here's
mine, it was amusing:

A friend's band plays neo-Dead hippie revival music, heavy on the stringed
instruments and the twirling dancers who show almost a complete disregard for
any beat when dancing, but hey no judgement, everyone's having good "clean"
fun.
With backstage passes I got to see the mindless roadies and the hippie chicks
sucking up to friend Travis, and the reason behind his rapidly swelling
ego...But did also have a chance to see a bunch of crusty Santa Cruz college
friends, which was good.  
The crowning achievement of this night of hippie bliss was a 12am jam, when
this big float like thing done up as a hippie bus lumbers around the floor of
the Kezar; and to the sounds of "If You're Going to San Francisco," (you know
the rest,) two hippie chicks tossed roses from on high their hippie bus.

I unwillingly and laughingly experienced a moment of collective nostalgia for
a time when I (and most of the audience) was barely alive.  The collective (in
concert with music, and drugs,) sure does work in mysterious ways.

LG

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 20:28:18 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-08-98 11:38

Furthermore, I would like to add on everyone else's good points.  Nomad should
have paid all the people with the money made that evening instead of
blatantly, wantonly, and knowingly passing bad checks.  They were looking out
for #1 first and not the people they hired.  You've got to take care of
obligations FIRST before worrying about your pockets.  And who gives a rat's
ass if there were delays and unforeseen circumstances?  That's the risk you
take as a promoter putting on a huge event.  It's called show coordination,
did you have contigency plans?  Did you have designated scouts in the crowd
to report back to you on everyone's vibe?  The people who paid can let you
know how the evening is going.  But, I digress.  You still have to pay the
people who carried out their end of the agreed upon service, or do you not see
that?  

As I stated in an earlier post, Number 1 DJ in the world plays for you and then
you're going to tell him after you've got cash in hand to more than cover his
cost, "Hey, sorry man, there were unforeseen circumstances so we're not sure if
we made enough money.  Here's a check (but don't pay attention to the bags of
cash I got in my pants, can you pick up those hundy bills falling out of my
pocket?).  Thanks, I knew you'd understand."

Give me a break, did everyone have idiot tattoed on their forehead that night? 
And the letter was dripping with self-pitying cheese.  I just hope that the
people who got stiffed will let us know when/if they finally get paid.  Suffice
to say, when this is finally resolved.  The rep you acquire travels in
nanoseconds over the internet.

The power of the truth and the people who uphold it will always win out over
plain deceit.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 20:28:43 1998
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From: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>
Message-Id: <199801082028.MAA23667@atari.saturn5.com>
Subject: sampler deals...
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:28:36 -0800 (PST)
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hey kids,

just to let you know if you are in the market for dance-music production
tools...  Guitar Center is blowing out their EMU esi-32 samplers for
700 dollars... thats a damn good price for a quality sampler...

-troy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tsheets@saturn5.com                        <- You have found me   
tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com                  <- Official Use Only
http://www.saturn5.com/tsheets/            <- Instant Content
troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com               <- Inquire Within

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 20:36:24 1998
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Subject: NRR: valetines day 
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http://www.topchoice.com/~psyche/lovetest/
 
 http://www.thekiss.com
 look at the goodnight kiss


For those of you getting ready for valentines day here are
a couple of nice sites. the first one is a test you can take
to find out about your style of love and if you have found
your true love. 
The second is a place to send someone a virtual smooch.

Are there any small parties being planned for V-day?
Its on a saturday this year so maybe we can put together
something interesting. Any ideas?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 20:53:59 1998
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I havent been to any of these please email me if the addie is wrong



http://www.synthmuseum.com


http://www.synths.headcleaner.com


http://www.pacificnet.net/~hypno


http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/test.html


http://www.synthfool.com


http://www.synthony.com/museum.html


http://www.magicnet.net/~audioply

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 20:59:15 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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In a message dated 1/8/98 1:36:27 AM, you wrote:

<<yes we incurred some huge due to the fact that
a great number of people entered the party without paying. We incurred
huge financial loses when in fact this should have been a tremendous
financial success. Unfortunately, we did not have enough additional
funds on hand the night of to take care of certain committments. >>

Is a little eloquent wording supposed to make up for the fact that some
of us were cheated?  I personally don't buy this whole "We-are-mature-We-are
good-people-We-are-Nomad-and-we-are-there-for-you" - bullcrap

this is really hilarious

natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:12:51 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:12:38 -0500 (EST)
From: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
To: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: bsp x2: come see me at glad hand, too!
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On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, dj radon wrote:

> Tuesday, January 13rd - The Glad Hand
> Halou (live), Junior Varsity KM, Skoop (live), DJ Monkey, DJ Radon (KZSU).
> 8:30p-2a, 21+, $5. Justice League, 628 Divisadero, SF.
>                                                  415.440.0409


The Glad Hand crew have graciously invited me up to play for you all, so
I'm gonna pack up my car, and make the trip up to the city.  This'll be my
first gig in SF, so I'm looking forward to it.

I'll be playing an eclectic blend of drum'n'bassy funky techno...please
come and lend your support!  A limited number of free tapes may be
available...find me and ask.

I'll be the guy wearing the fuzzy Mouse on Mars shirt.

-jimg/skoop


--skoop@slackers.net
--http://www.slackers.net/~skoop


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:22:18 1998
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At 12:56 PM -0800 1/8/98, Natasha426 wrote:
>In a message dated 1/8/98 1:36:27 AM, you wrote:
>
><<yes we incurred some huge due to the fact that
>a great number of people entered the party without paying. We incurred
>huge financial loses when in fact this should have been a tremendous
>financial success. Unfortunately, we did not have enough additional
>funds on hand the night of to take care of certain committments. >>
>
>Is a little eloquent wording supposed to make up for the fact that some
>of us were cheated?  I personally don't buy this whole "We-are-mature-We-are
>good-people-We-are-Nomad-and-we-are-there-for-you" - bullcrap
>
>this is really hilarious
>
>natasha

And undoubtedly, we, colletively, can only know the tip of the iceberg of
everything they've done to the community.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:32:46 1998
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        "ORIGIN - facts" (Dec 12, 12:52am)
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Let's just say I heard a considerably different version on Saturday
night from one of the security people who worked at Origin on New Year's
Eve.  

I've seen situations where event organizers had trouble controlling venue
access.  Let's face it, a lot of people will take advantage of an open
side door if they can.  On the other hand, if one is talking about one's
own facility as opposed to a rented space where details have to be worked
out on the fly, the context is quite different.

I've had pleasant conversations with Tom and Stacey over the years but
have never attended their events (not out of avoiding them, it's just
that being out of town there are many things I never have done, like
for example CCC to name just one).  I *have* done event management and
know what it's like trying to keep a chaotic situation under some
control.  But it strikes me that either Nomad is somewhat incompetent
as an event organization or else there's something more to the story.
DJs and security get paid only a fraction of event costs in any event,
but somehow they are the first to take a hit when the money isn't there.

Frankly, larger commercial parties are of little interest to me anyway
these days.  The motivation to pack as many people as possible into a
space reduces comfort levels for dancing and socializing.  That was the
most important lesson I've learned over the last couple of years.  

phred

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:39:24 1998
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Hi Everyone....

        Is this thread now turning into a witch-hunt.  The promoters from
Nomad said their peace....  everything from this point on is now personal.
Nomad has taken a lot of heat from this list over the last few weeks.  I have
read every post, some of which were amusing, and others were down right cruel.

        I personally feel very bad for the Nomad promoters, because I have
been in the same situation on this list over the past few years when I had
stuck up and defended Cool World, Other promoters, and at times our own
parties. I can tell you first hand that this type of thread is very painful
and very absurd....  especially when you compare it to the fundamental nature
of raving.  This is not sounding like a RAVE list anymore, but more like the
panel and audience for the next Jerry Springer Show.  (Chicago reference not
intentional)
       But in all seriousness....  There is no way that it is fair to ask a
promoter to open their books on a public forum such as this, and hold them
"guilty as charged" if they do not comply.   Not only can that post get
forwarded to ... anyone (IRS, NEWS, PD... ETC.) but its not really anybody's
business.
        Nomad said that They were taking care of the situation...  So let them
do it.   How out of touch have we become to let this thread go so far that we
feel we have the right to dictate how promoters should handle their Personal
business.
        The promoters function in this scene is to produce the event, and the
function of the raver is to go and have fun at the party and support the
promoter, so that they have the resources to produce future parties.  There is
a big separation between producer and participant.  So if you like what's
being produced...  then go out and participate... and if you don't.. then
don't go!  but don't sit around dictating your version of of how somone else
should handle thier own personal buisness.   No one likes a backseat
driver...  or a backseat/armchair promoter.
        History dictates that Nomad will rectify the situation, and still
throw future parties, and despite all the name calling and drama, people will
still go to their events.  AND  DJ's will still spin, and Lighting people will
still do visuals, and Sound companies will still bring out their gear...
etc.   WHY????   Because we live in a Capitalistic Market Economy... And
people need to earn a living.
         We each have our own feeling about all these issues, and we all feel
very strongly about our positions.  But lets not get so wrapped up in this
type of controversy that we wind up sacrificing our selfs, and our positive
outlooks on life.

Summery.....
1.  Never make someone else's business your agenda.
2.  If you don't like it... don't suport it.
3.  If you think it can be done better... do it yourself... and put your money
were your mouth is.
4.  Live by the Golden Rule.
5.  Keep it Real

Thanks to everyone that chose to read my personal perspective on this issue.
Yours in the Bond of PLUR.....   Vlad

Seth wrote:

> At 02:45 AM 1/8/98 +0000, Faro wrote:
> >
> >> We are happy to provide any information which might help to
> >> alleviate any concerns anybody has with regards to what happened the
> >> night of the party.
> >
> >       Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the
> >rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a
> >party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put
> >our minds at ease.
> >
> >-Faro
>
> I second this motion.  Also, a clear idea of how many tickets were counted
> versus people unpaid would be very helpful.  Most of the "facts" given in
> your post are extremely vague.
>
> Thanks,
> Seth




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:41:09 1998
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From: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, "'thenomad@pacbell.net'" <thenomad@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: ORIGIN - Another opinion (Mine) 
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:40:04 -0800
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here's the deal as i see. you go into business, you're taking a gamble.
to try to keep the odds in your favor and protect your investment, you
do EVERYTHING you can in the way of preparation. it's all about being
professional. example; johnny fiasco and the taxi debacle... it's NYE,
everyone in the bay is vying for cab time... you know you have to get
someone from point A to point B on time... don't wait to the last
fucking minute then cry because you can't pull it together... you PLAN
ahead to have a cronie make the pickup.

worried about not making enough cash to cover your ass at wrap time?
then make sure you have the money before you open your doors.  that way
you won't piss anybody off by making them deal with your flakiness. 

you say you're good people, fine, that and a buck gets you coffee. be
good people AND professional promoters. then start throwing parties. if
the rest of the world ran way you people operate we'd all be fucked on a
regular basis instead of just when we try to have fun....

trying to explain away your problems is a clear indication that, in this
case, you were not prepared to deal with the ball you started rolling.
in my experience...most people who work this way get served w/ a pink
slip.

in a hundred years, no one will care, but at the moment i'd say nomad,
et. al. have some soul searching to do about their future as promoters
and how to attone.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:43:18 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:45:49 -0800
To: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, Faro@usa.net
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Dear Nomad folks,

        I'm glad you have chosen to participate in a dialogue on this list
and respond to the serious allegations made against you.

        In addition to what Faro mentioned, it might be beneficial to other
promoters if you would share the name of the security company you hired and
the other production people you feel did not come through on commitments
they made to you.  We don't want more people getting burned.

        You also mentioned a letter you sent to the security company; could
you post a copy of this to the list?

        Knowing the costs you incurred in buying (and bringing up to
code/getting permits for?) the warehouse at 2nd & Jackson and how much of
this cost you have recouped might also help people understand your side of
this story.  If you have been willing to let others use the space at zero
or low cost, this would certainly speak in your favor.

        As came up earlier, I'm also still curious how much you paid Funky
Tekno Tribe for the use of their name, and why, if this in fact occured.

        Just as I would encourage anyone who says they had a bad experience
with you guys to post the full details to the list, I encourage you to do
the same, if you feel there were circumstances not known to us which are
relevant to the controversy.

        By getting solid information spread as widely as possible, the
scene will benefit.

May the vibe be with us,
                                 <<< Starchild >>>

>> We are happy to provide any information which might help to
>> alleviate any concerns anybody has with regards to what happened the
>> night of the party.
>
>        Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the
>rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a
>party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put
>our minds at ease.
>
>-Faro



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:44:20 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:46:56 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE
Cc: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
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Lara shares:

>my only comment on this would have to be
>
>that you say that vibe is timeless but the type of muysic i listen to will
>change..
>well
>
>that's what i love so much about music... it's forever changing.. getting
>better...

        Yes it is, and I love that too.  Especially since the old music is
still always there for us to reach back and reclaim, as long as
civilization continues.

        What I was getting at is that while I think most of us can agree to
a large extent on what is good vibe (hugs, smiles, energetic dancing, etc.)
and bad vibe (tough/mean attitudes, rude, selfish behavior, etc.), it is
much harder to reach agreement on which music is good and bad.

        The tunes considered good in the underground today would not be
what most people in the underground liked 30 years ago (hell, they weren't
even around then), and I doubt today's music will be the most popular thing
in 30 years.  And if you go from region to region, you will find that
different types of music are popular with ravers and fellow travelers.

        But I don't think hugs and smiles will ever lose their popularity.
That's what I meant about vibe being timeless and universal compared to
music.

Much love,
                                 <<< Starchild >>>


                       "Friendliness never goes out of style."
                           -paraphrasing of Levi's slogan





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:46:37 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:06:38 -0700
To: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
From: terry estioko <terry@cloudfactory.org>
Subject: Re: Vibe Theory
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org, viberation@cloudfactory.org
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On one fine day in Jan 1998, Terri Young proclaimed:

>Derived from the theory of Vibe Relativity:
>
>All this esoteric talk about Vibe.  Vibe is simply short for
>***viberation*** of
>energy through mass.

As you can see, internal and
>external vibe can merge like two ***wavelengths*** and become one
>(excellent!).

> Each particle has it's unique internal vibe which must find the correct
>resonating external vibe to ***harmonize*** (this is why we sometimes have
>different definitions of good vibe).

>love!
>Terri

hehe....hehehe...cool. =)

-T



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:49:13 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:51:43 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: The big world out there
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I thought you guys might get a kick out of this snippet of a recent
conversation I had with someone who is (obviously) not a raver...   8)

>>        Hi! You were inquiring whence "Starchild"?  My name is Starchild
>>because I am a raver.  Raves are typically all-night dance parties...
>
>   Hmmm...  Interesting.  I can see what you describe in my mind, but it
>surprises me that it would become a broad phenomenon--broad enough to have a
>name and apparently a subculture of its own.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:49:19 1998
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Subject: sort of rr? 
To: cat.weasel@usa.net, lucke@rocketmail.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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okay, we're all sitting here at work, working hard, but we're so tired of the
cds that we've brought in... any suggestions for web sites that will keep us
aurally entertained for the afternoon? any help would be appreciated! 

and if you could, reply to me in person (at the above addy) coz i'm off list
once again.

cheers! e. :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 21:53:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:46:23 EST
To: macadio6@rocketmail.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Best of 97**
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In a message dated 1/8/98 12:56:23 PM, you wrote:

<<thought I would list SOME not all of my
Fav's of 97. (In no paticular order)

Harmony (All of them past and present)
Viberation
Lepidoptera
Pro-Soy......(snip) >>


My goodness! How could I forget Pro-soy?? That was one of the first parties I
wento when I first moved up here ..... what a great time!!  =D  I don't even
know who was spinning there .....??

luv n hugs
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 22:30:25 1998
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Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
References: <3490FB61.7318@pacbell.net> <3.0.1.32.19980108112058.01371a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> <34B5452D.725BC4B8@ix.netcom.com>
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Vlad defended Nomad with this:
--------------------------------
Summery.....
1.  Never make someone else's business your agenda.
2.  If you don't like it... don't support it.
3.  If you think it can be done better... do it yourself... and put your
money were your mouth is.
4.  Live by the Golden Rule.
5.  Keep it Real

So why are you talking in Nomad's defense, Vlad?  You made good points
about people voting with their consumer dollars; that has been said here
before.  I think this incident with Nomad will not be the last - but I
do hope that less people will be hurt in the future because of what they
learned in this incident. 

And I haven't witnessed any "...we wind up sacrificing our selfs, and
our positive outlooks on life." by discussing facts and rumors and fears
around the Origen/Nomad issue here on SFRaves.  Vlad, SFRaves is the
appropriate forum for this discussion to take place.  This discussion is
timely and appropriately placed in this public forum.  I think promoters
should accept the fact gracefully that if you actively court this online
community to attend your functions, and something goes wrong at those
functions, you will hear about it in this public rehash manner. It may
take a little more time for people to get this out of their systems. 
There is some genuine anger and pain in this group about being taken for
a bunch of rubes in the very environment, a rave, that we are all
conditioned to let our guards down in!  Last but definitely not least, I
think we all want to see our fellow ravers, the dj's, be paid for their
work.

Diana

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 22:31:37 1998
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Always seeking to please i have worked out a partnership
between starbucks, chippendales/hooters and a few sfraves dj's>
If you are bored at work just give us a call and we will have 
music, coffee and dancers in your office to provide you with
your own private party/music while you work.

Note...we are accepting applications from local dj's to participate
in this new venture. Just send us your mixtape and resume.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

===============================================


emenon@kpmg.com wrote:
> 
> okay, we're all sitting here at work, working hard, but we're so tired of the
> cds that we've brought in... any suggestions for web sites that will keep us
> aurally entertained for the afternoon? any help would be appreciated!
> 
> and if you could, reply to me in person (at the above addy) coz i'm off list
> once again.
> 
> cheers! e. :)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 22:33:23 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-08-98 13:29

It's all well and good to take the high ground on this.  But people generally
get really pissed when they feel they've been taken.  And that's what's
happening here.  People just want an explanation for something that doesn't
make sense.  To not discuss it and just decide, "Well, I'm just not going to go
to any of those sets by Nomad anymore."  That takes away from the collective
movement that are raves.  Not to mention the exercise that is eons old, what is
right and what is wrong in our society?  For ravers are a society unto
themselves no matter what type of raver.

Additionally, I don't think it's too far fetched for fellow ravers to ask for
an explanation.  I mean who the hell do the promoters make money off of right? 
You tellin' me the fans in Chicago got no say about the Bulls at all?  Hey, if
you livin' off me, then I got say in how you do business with me, straight up.

Josh said that you need to be prepared BEFORE the event to pay people and that
is how it should be.  It's not the stock market, there should be no margin and
cover because that's what gets people in trouble especially if there is a
crash, a.k.a. unforeseen circumstances.

This topic of discussion is a cathartic process.  Where all opinions relating
to the subject are welcome right?  It's unfortunate that the heat is rising
because people plunked down some of their hard earned cash.  

Failing to prepare is like preparing to fail.  That's all...I'm out...


not a promoter,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com


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Subject: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
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Hi Everyone....

        Is this thread now turning into a witch-hunt.  The promoters from
Nomad said their peace....  everything from this point on is now personal.
Nomad has taken a lot of heat from this list over the last few weeks.  I have
read every post, some of which were amusing, and others were down right cruel.

        I personally feel very bad for the Nomad promoters, because I have
been in the same situation on this list over the past few years when I had
stuck up and defended Cool World, Other promoters, and at times our own
parties. I can tell you first hand that this type of thread is very painful
and very absurd....  especially when you compare it to the fundamental nature
of raving.  This is not sounding like a RAVE list anymore, but more like the
panel and audience for the next Jerry Springer Show.  (Chicago reference not
intentional)
       But in all seriousness....  There is no way that it is fair to ask a
promoter to open their books on a public forum such as this, and hold them
"guilty as charged" if they do not comply.   Not only can that post get
forwarded to ... anyone (IRS, NEWS, PD... ETC.) but its not really anybody's
business.
        Nomad said that They were taking care of the situation...  So let them
do it.   How out of touch have we become to let this thread go so far that we
feel we have the right to dictate how promoters should handle their Personal
business.
        The promoters function in this scene is to produce the event, and the
function of the raver is to go and have fun at the party and support the
promoter, so that they have the resources to produce future parties.  There is
a big separation between producer and participant.  So if you like what's
being produced...  then go out and participate... and if you don't.. then
don't go!  but don't sit around dictating your version of of how somone else
should handle thier own personal buisness.   No one likes a backseat
driver...  or a backseat/armchair promoter.
        History dictates that Nomad will rectify the situation, and still
throw future parties, and despite all the name calling and drama, people will
still go to their events.  AND  DJ's will still spin, and Lighting people will
still do visuals, and Sound companies will still bring out their gear...
etc.   WHY????   Because we live in a Capitalistic Market Economy... And
people need to earn a living.
         We each have our own feeling about all these issues, and we all feel
very strongly about our positions.  But lets not get so wrapped up in this
type of controversy that we wind up sacrificing our selfs, and our positive
outlooks on life.

Summery.....
1.  Never make someone else's business your agenda.
2.  If you don't like it... don't suport it.
3.  If you think it can be done better... do it yourself... and put your money
were your mouth is.
4.  Live by the Golden Rule.
5.  Keep it Real

Thanks to everyone that chose to read my personal perspective on this issue.
Yours in the Bond of PLUR.....   Vlad

Seth wrote:

> At 02:45 AM 1/8/98 +0000, Faro wrote:
> >
> >> We are happy to provide any information which might help to
> >> alleviate any concerns anybody has with regards to what happened the
> >> night of the party.
> >
> >       Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the
> >rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a
> >party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put
> >our minds at ease.
> >
> >-Faro
>
> I second this motion.  Also, a clear idea of how many tickets were counted
> versus people unpaid would be very helpful.  Most of the "facts" given in
> your post are extremely vague.
>
> Thanks,
> Seth




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 22:44:12 1998
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Donald McCasland wrote:
> 
> >I suppose you've heard the weather forecast for Tahoe?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Clouds, but Sonny on one side of a tree.
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 22:48:07 1998
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From: "LYLE, THOMAS" <LYLET@pab281a.ssd.loral.com>
Subject: Re: sort of rr?
To: emenon <emenon@kpmg.com>, fish1111 <fish1111@pacbell.net>,
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Would that be possible?  Could you have Starbucks, djs, and 
chippendales/hooters frolicking around while "working"?  I don't know ff. 
 I'll be more than happy to demo your services while studying sometime and 
then report to everyone my 'findings'. :-)

Thomas
B-)
 ----------
From: fish1111
To: sfraves; emenon
Subject: Re: sort of rr?
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 2:37PM

Always seeking to please i have worked out a partnership
between starbucks, chippendales/hooters and a few sfraves dj's>
If you are bored at work just give us a call and we will have
music, coffee and dancers in your office to provide you with
your own private party/music while you work.

Note...we are accepting applications from local dj's to participate
in this new venture. Just send us your mixtape and resume.

     ><{{{">  <"}}}><

===============================================


emenon@kpmg.com wrote:
>
> okay, we're all sitting here at work, working hard, but we're so tired of
the
> cds that we've brought in... any suggestions for web sites that will keep 
us
> aurally entertained for the afternoon? any help would be appreciated!
>
> and if you could, reply to me in person (at the above addy) coz i'm off 
list
> once again.
>
> cheers! e. :)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 23:24:56 1998
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Subject: RE: NRR: valetines day 
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We should put together a list and exchange valetines cards. That would be fun. I'd bring lots of candy!


1 luv,

billabong


fish1111@pacbell.net wrote on Thursday January 8, 1998 at  2:12pm:


>Are there any small parties being planned for V-day?
>Its on a saturday this year so maybe we can put together
>something interesting. Any ideas?
>

------------------------------------------------------
| Keeping your email PRIVATE is our business.
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000002 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 23:30:23 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:10:20 EST
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Subject: Re: NRR: valetines day
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In a message dated 98-01-08 15:44:55 EST, you write:

<< Are there any small parties being planned for V-day?
 Its on a saturday this year so maybe we can put together
 something interesting. Any ideas? >>

    heheheh This is my BIRTHDAY =)~*  Little TeKnODiVa Luv child.  I could
think of a few things I'd like to do. (SFR partE at chuckE chEEsEs... Hi,
JEN!)  Hm... well.. I am going to Love-a-Fair... and if a whole bunch of you
wanna meet me in tha chill room I think we could have our own little par-tahy.
Yep yep.  SO excited, I can't wait.  *mwah*

         hugsn'stuff
            'trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 08 23:37:20 1998
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I'll donate my small 900 watt system (since I will be in Tahoe I cant 
donate my bigger system).

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 00:16:42 1998
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emenon@kpmg.com wrote:
> any suggestions for web sites that will keep us
> aurally entertained for the afternoon? 

<persuses his bookmarks>

Well to start with:
http://www.hotwired.com/betalounge/
has some music and links, the best of which I found
to be:
http://www.pirate-radio.co.uk/interface/pirate.html
and
http://www.pirate-radio.co.uk/global/live.htm
is great too.

http://www.liveconcerts.com/listening/concerts/
has an Orbital concert and oodles of non-techno stuff.


If you find anything else, post it ere!


Victor W.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 00:24:11 1998
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Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
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At 01:29 PM 1/8/98 -0800, Ray Vonie wrote:
>        Is this thread now turning into a witch-hunt.  The promoters from
>Nomad said their peace....  everything from this point on is now personal.

And everything they say is supposed to be accepted at face value, despite
numerous claims to the contrary by people directly involved with the event?
 Fuck that.  

>I can tell you first hand that this type of thread is very painful
>and very absurd....  especially when you compare it to the fundamental nature
>of raving.  This is not sounding like a RAVE list anymore, but more like the
>panel and audience for the next Jerry Springer Show.  (Chicago reference not
>intentional)

What, RAVEing is supposed to be about blissful ignorance of one's immediate
environment?  RAVEing is supposed to be about smiling back at the one who
robbed you asking, "thank you, can I please have another"?  Fuck that. 

>        The promoters function in this scene is to produce the event, and the
>function of the raver is to go and have fun at the party and support the
>promoter, so that they have the resources to produce future parties.
There is
>a big separation between producer and participant.

Oh, THANK YOU for letting us, the "raver", know what our proper place in
the rave scene is.  I know they covered this in high school but I must have
been asleep that day or something.  They said it wouldn't be on the midterm.  

Fuck that.  Fuck any line between "promoter" and "raver".

>So if you like what's
>being produced...  then go out and participate... and if you don't.. then
>don't go!  but don't sit around dictating your version of of how somone else
>should handle thier own personal buisness.   No one likes a backseat
>driver...  or a backseat/armchair promoter.

And you, sir, should not presume that those of us participating in this
thread do not have experience throwing parties.  In fact most of the people
involved in this have directly thrown at least a couple of parties that I
know of.  I myself lost a boatload of money this year throwing a couple
parties.  "shut up, be happy!" Fuck that.

>        History dictates that Nomad will rectify the situation, and still
>throw future parties, and despite all the name calling and drama, people will
>still go to their events.  AND  DJ's will still spin, and Lighting people
will
>still do visuals, and Sound companies will still bring out their gear...
>etc.   WHY????   Because we live in a Capitalistic Market Economy... And
>people need to earn a living.

And anyone who thinks they should be able to earn a living by throwing
parties needs to have their heads examined.  Do something else, and throw
parties because it's fun.  Even many massives are thrown by those with
regular day jobs.  Heck, even Martin has another job.

>         We each have our own feeling about all these issues, and we all feel
>very strongly about our positions.  But lets not get so wrapped up in this
>type of controversy that we wind up sacrificing our selfs, and our positive
>outlooks on life.

Rubber checks do wonders to people's "positive outlooks on life".  Fuck that.

>Thanks to everyone that chose to read my personal perspective on this issue.
>Yours in the Bond of PLUR.....   Vlad

You know Vlad, I've always given you more than a fair share of the benefit
of the doubt.  And heck, I still bet your comments are sincere and coming
from some sort of source of decency inside.  Unfortunately I think there is
a very wide gap between your concept of what the rave scene should be like,
and how many others feel it should be.  

I wonder if when Geoff White outlined the principles behind the acronym
PLUR if this was anything close to what he meant.  My guess is that it's not.

	Brian "more raving for your entertainment dollar"


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 00:34:47 1998
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I wrote:
>>manipulated slightly via auditory dopeness... but when it comes right down
>>to it, either you're having a good time, or you're not. that's "vibe" to me.

so you wrote:
>        I believe vibe is more complex than simply whether a person is
>having a good time or not, although there's definitely a correlation
*****
granted.  my intention *was* to leave the "good time or not" open for
interpertation, *because* it's a tad more complex that *anyone* can quite
describe.

that's the point.  it's all part of the vibe... *everything* affects the
vibe...

to me, "vibe" is the ambient energy of the entire party... 
you can feel it like stepping off a plane into 98 degree/98% humidity
weather... or, coming out of it into an air conditioned building...  it's
there... all around you.  
it can change you as you walk toward the door, passing the ticket takers...
as you enter the main room and take in the visuals, the rythmic undulations
of the dancers, and absorb the intensity of the mix, catch that bassline
and... >>POW<<  you're hooked.. you're become part of it, you are swept up
into the energy of the party.. 
or... not. 
you may walk in and the energy of the crowd is just flat.  it can be hard
to pick out what exactly the dj is expressing, the floor is empty... blah.

'course, you can make anything out of it you want... i figure i keep most
of my energy for myself in the low-vibe situations just to make sure i'm
not showing the negs... which only means you have to get closer to me to
share... 

when the vibe is kickin' it can swirl in and out of everybody, between,
over, and under... you can close your eyes and feel it move around you like
a warm summer breeze...

tha vibe is just... there.  regardless.  sometimes it's up, sometimes it's
down. 

it's the collective vitality of the party's participants, perceived as
diversely as each individual there; generally interperated as an energetic
yet intangible, dinstinctive emotional atmosphere; sensed intuitively.
[have to give Webster's props...]

anyway, i'm rambling...
peaceout,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 00:39:48 1998
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   Hope everyone is having a good new year...the Digital Be-In should
   be the most interesting event on Friday, there's the music, of
   course, and then some panels and speakers on our 'culture'.  There's
   a lot of stuff to check out in the weeklies too, if you get bored
   this week!


                              The SFR Calendar
                                      
           http://www.hyperreal.org/raves/sf/calendar/gencal.cgi
     _________________________________________________________________
   
               Upcoming Parties in the San Francisco Bay Area
                                      
   Friday, January 9th - DEEP
   BioJeff, ReAch, Des Jardines.
   First Friday of the month (except January!).
   9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Il Pirata, 2007 16th St @ Potrero, SF.
   
   Friday, January 9th - A Gathering of the Tribes for the 10th Annual
   Digital Be-In
   ETI (live), Soulstice (live), CIEBA (live), Polywog, Garth, Tracy,
   Galen, Grey-V, Tom, Neil, Douglas, Rob, Joe Rice, Professor Smith,
   Andrew Rawnsley, Ammon, EK.
   Live Mixman demonstration by George Clinton.
   Didgeridoo ceremony w/Steven Kent.
   Speakers: Mark Ameba, John Beresford, Bruce Eisner, Matthew Fox,
   others TBA.
   Advance tix at Housewares, Distractions, Ion Exchange, Mixology,
   TicketWeb.
   7pm-7am, $15. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.777.9199
   
   Friday, January 9th - Foundation
   Hipp-E, Kid Bippy, Eric, Wyatt.
   Visuals by Eyelusions.
   916.829.6485 415.451.0866
   
   Saturday, January 10th - Ghostribe Productions presents Acid Breaks 2
   The 1 Year Anniversary
   Bringing you the Ruff Beats: Carlos, DJ Ghost, Frank Nitty, Miss
   Knight, Joey, Kwashi, Tripnotix, introducing Oscar Meyer, Down in the
   Jungleground: Noel, UFO, Rinse, Star Eyes, Flux, MC Phluid, Hak, Moshe.
   in a fully permitted, friendly and safe, VIRGIN location
   Visuals by I-Candy, L.S.D. - Laser by UV-99.
   Limited presale tix on sale until 1/8 at Solid Grooves (SJ), Diversity
   (Walnut Creek), Twilight Zone (Hayward).
   9pm-6am, . 415.273.1474 510.986.9227 408.881.0678
   
   Saturday, January 10th - 12 Monkeys presents Little House in the City
   Doc Martin (LA), Simon, Tony, DJ BIZZ (Chemically Minded Records),
   Utopia, Dan Issac (12 Monkeys), DJ Champ, DJ Pat (Company Correct).
   415.436.0714 510.407.1208
   
   Saturday, January 10th - Happy Kids One Year Anniversary
   presale tix $12 at F-8. $15 at door before 10pm.
   8pm-4am, . SF. 415.750.3020
   
   Tuesday, January 13rd - The Glad Hand
   Halou (live), Junior Varsity KM, Skoop (live), DJ Monkey, DJ Radon
   (KZSU).
   8:30p-2a, 21+, $5. Justice League, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   Wednesday, January 14th - Hiatus
   Hiatus Hails tribute to "el Nino"
   Spun, Jonene, Jeno, Ellen Ferrato, Little John, Adam, Sheamus, Liquid
   performing live.
   free before 10pm. $7 with flyer.
   4am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, January 17th - Space Children presents All Together Now
   3 year anniversary
   Expect an absolutely stellar line up from all around our beautiful
   planet.
   415.675.4700 510.461.SPACE
   
   Saturday, January 17th - Planet Rock
   supa dj dimitry, silver & vj avant aka cy funk 3, John Aquaviva,
   (charles) feelgood, DJ Dan, donald glaude, jim hopkins, kid bippy,
   sugarhill gang, grandmaster flash, del tha funkee homosapien, invisibl
   skratch piklz, emil & z-trip, funkmaster flex, stylus & ernan,
   essence, chris, joey, danny da wild child, r.a.w., 119 crew (josh
   swissman & heretic), phunckateck (noel, ufo & abstract), star eyes,
   simon apex, dj jets & neme, dj paradox, radley marx, mike moss, bryun,
   tune & bloom, dlx, mike barrett, rockit, huck, neil.
   415.675.5603 510.869.4137 916.492.5477
   
   Saturday, January 17th - Trance & Jungle Factory party
   DJs TBA. 200 Presale tix only at the Trance & Jungle Factory...
   $10.
   
   Wednesday, January 21st - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records
   presents Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Graeme, Garth.
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Friday, January 23rd - House Blends
   Rob Doten, Joey (A.M.Crew), Tim (Intervene Prod.), DJ Tune, Bloom,
   Abdul, Mes.
   510.988.7447
   
   Friday, January 23rd - SF House Collective presents Love
   DJ Dan, Carlos, Jason, Melanie, Jason Allan, Jorge.
   $15 with a flower.
   510.594.4076 415.615.8559
   
   Saturday, January 24th - 6 in da mornin and On 1 Technologies presents
   Ground Zero 3: the Resurrection
   2 Year Anniversary
   DJ Doubt (Ministry of Sound/UK), Terry Mullan (Chicago), Jason Jinx
   (Nervous/NY), Jim Hopkins (Twitch), dB (Sm:)e/NYC), Dara (Breakbeat
   Science/NY), DJ Dan, Simply Jeff (LA), Hipp-E (Elevator/Colo), Ghost &
   Frank Nitty on 4, Tripnotix, DJ Kimo & Scott LIVE, Joe Lanzon, Paucus,
   Kwashi, Jedi, Rig-A-Tony, Bryen, Sci-Fi, More TBA.
   3 rooms, free giveaways, fully permitted/safe SF location.
   Lasers by NU-SALT. Lighting by On 1 Technologies & Lumatech. Sound by
   JK. Visuals by Liquid Lights.
   8pm-6am, $20. SF. 510.286.7927 415.995.1940 916.484.3734 408.236.2059
   800.590.7032
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Lightseed presents Lightseed One Year
   Anniversary
   Benefitting the world's rainforests, the Cloud Forest Institute and
   the Ceiba Foundation.
   John Howard, Sean Murray, Tracy, Joey, Jeff Taisch, Billy Haste,
   Freaky Chakra (live), Ethan Miller, Anon, Ryan Cimino, Dutch, Re Ach,
   DJ Jets, Russell, Bonnie, Benji, Eric Brown, Greg Sandler, Rob Rayle
   (live), Robert Hart (live), Stephen Kent (live).
   $13 w/can $15 w/out - donations go to Food Not Bombs.
   SF. 415.339.8464 707.329.2189
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Motorway presents Education
   B-Side, Kevin, Dre, Hans.
   $5. Sacramento. 916.491.5891
   
   Friday, January 30th - Navigator Productions presents Journey
   Simply Jeff (LA), DJ Heretic (LA), Imix (S.L.T.), Neme (Sac), Patrick
   (Sac).
   916.829.6207
   
   Saturday, January 31st - Adrenalin presents In House We Trust
   Jeno, Tony, Simon, Carlos, Mellanie, Pat Allen, Jazz-e, Moda, Shaft,
   Paucus, Kwashi, Essence, Spinner, Tripnotix, Kimo.
   Visuals by Multimedia Meltdown.
   more info TBA.
   
   Saturday, January 31st - ASR Productions presents Question Reality
   Terrac (cloud factory), micron (viberation), James Slayer, Sho
   (mad/fnf), Andy W (viberation).
   Indoors. Free water/free fruit. Presale tix limited to 300; on sale
   jan 3rd.
   monterey bay.
   
   Saturday, February 7th - 420 Kids! presents Vibe Creation
   Macadio, Bryan Lee, Huggie (LA), Kwashi, J. Splatt (LA), Tyson (Chi),
   Jazz-E, Aloren D'Angelo (Greater House of Berkeley), DJ Toon, Mars x
   Mystr-E (2x4).
   415.995.4983
   
   Saturday, February 14th - Feel Good Entertainment presents Love A-Fair
   '98
   Valentine's Day PLURity Vibe-Fest and Six year anniversary
   Much more info to follow...
   415.263.0483
   
   Wednesday, February 18th - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records
   presents Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Henrik, Josh.
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, February 28th - Nexus presents 2nd Chakra
   Everything TBA soon...
   
   Wednesday, March 18th - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records presents
   Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Jeno, Deep Fuzz (Rob Doten and Ben).
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, April 4th - FunkyBeat presents FEDEX
   guaranteed to take you there overnight
   DJ Dan, Donald Glaude, Jim Hopkins, Simon, Essence, Matthew, Paucus &
   Tripnotix (2x4), Ghost & Frank Nitty (2x4), Kimo & Scott (2x4),
   Spinner & Little Ricky (2x4).
   Presale tix $20, at the door $25.
   415.219.5831
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                              W E E K L I E S
                                      
   House/techno/acid jazz/ambient/etc reg'lar happenins Some of them may
   have ended - let me know when that happens...
   
                                  Thursday
                                      
   Sharpshooter - acid jazz, hip hop, soul w/DJs George, Aural B,
   Romanowski, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $4. elbo room, 647 Valencia, SF.
   415.552.7788
   
   Anthem - house, funk, disco w/DJs David Harness, Ruben Mancias, Jorge
   Martinez, Sista Black, guests. 10pm-6am, 21+, $3. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   415.978.0181
   
   Sprung - funk meets the future w/DJs Manny Rosa, the Baroness, Jimmm
   the dj, guests. alternate Thursdays (10/30...)
   9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   
   Royal Jelly - explorations in creative and social behaviour. Sound
   experiments in digital rhythm and note fantasies w/DJs Lefebvrier,
   Toph, Travis, guest DJs and live acts weekly. 7pm-, 21+, Free. Liquid,
   2925 16th St @ So.Van Ness, SF.
   
   Vibe - deep acid trance, gay, bi and straight w/DJs Jon Bush, Natalie
   Dierickx. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Stud, 9th & Harrison, SF.
   
   Thursday Night Therapy - house, techno w/DJs Jazz-E, Josh Schwab,
   Corey, guests. call for location.
   9pm-3am, 18+. , SF 415.281.8466
   
   karmachanics - house music w/DJs Erin, guests. Alternate Thursdays.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   
   Kit Kat - house. 10pm-4am, 21+. the End Up, 6th & Harrison, SF.
   
   Mosaic - Mauricio, the Baroness, Shannon, Franky. begins July 17th.
   7 Spring St between Kearny & Montgomery, SF.
   
   Trainspotters - UK Progressive House w/DJs DJ Phat Pat, guests. 21+,
   $3. 1333 Columbus @ North Point, SF.
   
   Eklektic - jungle w/DJs StarEyes, Sage, weekly guests. $3 before 11
   10p-2a, 21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 279 Howard @ 2nd, SF. 415.332.5800
   x24-7
   
   Discovery - a night of house and disco music w/DJs Greg Sandler, Erik
   Brown, Urn. bi-weekly.
   21+, Free. Masses Pool Hall, 625 Fifth St, Santa Rosa. 707.571.8747
   
   Moving Co. - house w/DJs Pete Avila, guests. free before 10.
   9pm-2am, 21+, $5. justice league, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   Schoolhouse Rock - house, disco w/DJs jeyson, jericho, occasional
   guests. cheap cover ($1, $3, ?).
   10pm-, 21+. Mansion Pub, 132 E St, Davis. 530.753.4708
   
   The Cafe - house w/DJs Mathew Baker. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. the Cafe,
   2367 Market Street, SF. 415.861.3846
   
                                   Friday
                                      
   Nikita - house, techno w/DJs Simon, Jeno, David Michael, Jerry Bonham.
   Broadcast live on the net at www.1015.com.
   Downstairs, Sticks and Stones- provacateurs of Bass present Drum +
   Bassment with resident DJ Kayar.
   10pm-6am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.267.0568
   [1.9 - David Michael's B-day party, Digital Be-In]
   [1.16 - Tony Humphries (NY), AK 1200 (FL)]
   [1.23 - Jason Jinx (NY), Dara (NY)]
   [1.30 - Cirrus (live)(LA)]
   [2.6 - Grant Plant (UK)]
   [2.20 - Pete 'the shaker' Bones (UK)]
   
   Fusion - house w/DJs Pat Allen, TJ, Jay R, Larry Live, Phil Salter,
   Cameron, Mark Engler, Rob Bishop. 3 DJs per night, free before 10pm.
   9pm-4am, 21+, $5. 1220 Pine St, Walnut Creek.
   
   the Electric Company - an evening of energetic fusion w/DJs Jonene,
   Ellen Ferrato, guests. 9pm-power outage, 21+, $5. Cat's Grill, 1190
   Folsom, SF. 415.635.6906
   
   Product - house w/DJs Norman 'The Truth' Stradley, sherif, Jay-J, Marc
   Jellybear, DJ Fuze. 21+. the Sound Factory, 525 Harrison St, SF.
   415.979.8686
   
   JR's/Club X - 2 Dancefloors w/DJs DJ Allen (Club X), DJ Charles
   (JR's). $9 for the under 21 crowd.
   8p-4a, 18+, $5. 2520 Camino Diablo, Walnut Creek. 510.256.1200
   
   Heat - Paul. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. 2200 Harvard (in Club Avalon inside the
   Hilton), Sacramento. 916.922.4700
   
   Moist and Delicious - Mellow hip-jazz to rollin' dnb w/DJs Jake, Visa,
   guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Skylark, 16th & Valencia, SF.
   
   RoM - an evening of sophisticated deep house... w/DJs Chad Mitchell.
   21+, Free. Liquid, 2925 16th St, SF. 415.289.6833
   
   beware of the naughty nurse - house w/DJs Robbie Hardkiss. 10pm-2am,
   21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   
   Drunkyn Mastyrz - hip-hop breaks and jungle w/DJs Drunkyn Mastyrz,
   dayzr. every first friday of the month.
   10pm-2am, Free. The Attic, 3336 24th St @ Bartlett, SF.
   
   Abstract Soul - house w/DJs Corey Black, Loren, Solar, guests. free
   before 11.
   21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard St, SF.
   [1.9 - John Howard, Corey]
   [1.16 - Mattski, Loren]
   [1.23 - Corey, Solar]
   [1.30 - Tweekin Records Release Party: DJ Iz, Solar]
   [2.6 - Loren, Corey]
   
   Stir-Fri-Day - drum & bass-dub-hip-hop-house-funk-rare grooves w/DJs
   guests weekly. 5pm-9pm, 21+. Minna St Gallery, 111 Minna St, SF.
   
   Liquid - Sugar-D, guests. 10pm-3am, 21+, $5. Neptune's, 5990 S Land
   Park Dr, Sacramento. 916.452.9823
   
   Electric Avenue - house, techno w/DJs Jonene (Stompy), Ellen Ferrato,
   Danny Deep, Jeff Fetterman (Up & Down, Release). $2 off with student
   ID.
   9pm-5am, 21+. Cat's Alley, 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF.
   
   Groovology - house w/DJs Tracy, guests. $3 before 11p.
   10p-2a, 21+, $5. , Santa Rosa 707.526.1230
   [1.9 - see ya at the Digital Be-In]
   [1.16 - Garth w/John Henry]
   [1.23 - Markie w/Erik Brown]
   [1.30 - Buck w/Jason]
   
                                  Saturday
                                      
   Other Whirled - House, Techno w/DJs Nobel, Vince, Christine, Daniel,
   guests. saturday morning
   5:30am-3pm, 21+. 201 9th @ Howard, SF. 415.208.7665
   
   Release - Acid Jazz, Funk, Reggae, House w/DJs Jerry Ross, Josh, Mr.
   Sulu, Randy Wong. 21+. 1015 Folsom, , SF. 415.337.7457
   
   Vanilla Fudge - House w/DJs Corey Black, Sunshine, Moonbeam, Jason,
   Big Lee, Darren. occasional saturday nights.
   10pm-2am, Free. Cafe Bastille, 55 Belden Alley, SF. 415.764.2903
   
   Loveworks - house w/DJs Dani, Matt Valenz, guests. i.a.o [inspiration
   aaron o]
   9pm-infinity, . 111 Minna Street, SF. 415.646.0744
   
   GrassRoots - growing the freshest in house beats. w/DJs kelvin k,
   Uneke, Adonis, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   415.864.7386
   
   Pablo's Sugar Shack - SF's Funkiest House and Rare-Jazzy Grooves w/DJs
   Taj, Jay-J, Lele, Buna, Monty, Markiss, Mofo, Roman, SFRaves lounge +
   guests. 10pm-afterhours, 21+, $10. VSF, 278 Folsom @ 11th, SF.
   415.668.2476
   
   Moist and Delicious - Mellow hip-jazz to rollin' dnb w/DJs Jake, Visa,
   guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Skylark, 16th & Valencia, SF.
   
   i Heard That - house w/DJs Alain del Corazon, Ruben Mancias, Chris
   Lum, Rasoul, guests. 9:30pm-2am, 21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard
   St, SF. 415.626.9097
   
                                   Sunday
                                      
   Spundae - House, Techno w/DJs Carlos, David Michael, weekly guests.
   free b4 10:30p
   10pm-5:30am, 21+, $5. 278 11th St @ Folsom, SF. 415.974.9389
   [1.11 - Mark Anthony (NY), DJ Bizz (Houston), Carlos, Ryno, David
   Michael]
   [1.18 - John Acquaviva (Canada), Charles Feelgood (Balt), Donald
   Glaude (Sea), Troy (Sea), Jerry Bonham, David Michael]
   [1.25 - Terry Mullan (Chi), Taj, Niven, David Michael, Scott DC,
   Safar]
   [2.1 - Sasha and John Digweed at 1015 Folsom]
   [2.15 - 5 year anniversary]
   
   Leopard Lounge - Acid Jazz, Funk & Live Bands. w/DJs Suiki, Jay-J,
   Anthony, Julius Papp, Mark Farina, guests. 2125 Lombard @ Fillmore,
   SF. 415.771.2583
   
   Pleasuredome - House w/DJs Neil Lewis, Ruben Mancias, guests. 21+, $8.
   177 Townsend, SF. 415.985.5256
   
   Mix Lounge - techno, house, jungle w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am,
   $4. 2513 Van Ness, SF. 415.928.0404
   
   Dub Mission - SF's only dub night w/DJs Sep, J.Boogie, Ludichris,
   other surprises. 9pm-, 21+, $3. the Elbo Room, 647 Valencia @ 17th,
   SF. 415.552.7788
   
   Plush - house, jungle, trance, ambient w/DJs guest DJs weekly.
   9:30p-2a, 21+, $5. 2708 J St, Sacramento. 916.484.4285
   [1.25 - DJ Dan]
   
   ultra magnetic/left coast chronicles - jungle, drum n bass w/DJs
   abstract, spell, jason mouse, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424
   Haight St, SF.
   
   float - chillin' house beats in a new space w/DJs John Howard, Jason
   Mouse, Erin (409). 10p-2a, 21+, Free. Liquid, 2925 16th @ Mission, SF.
   415.431.8889
   
   Breakfast at Tiffany's - Serving deep house w/DJs Para, Victor,
   Nickola. complimentary breakfast (bagels, fresh fruit, pastries)
   9am-5pm, 21+. DNA Lounge, 375 11th St, SF. 415.635.6906
   
   Super8000 - analogus expeririments in the chemical composition of
   celluloid and wax. 21+. Edinburgh Castle, 950 Geary @ Polk, SF.
   
   Nice - house, techno w/DJs Spun, special guests. free before 11.
   21+, $5. basement of the Agenda, , San Jose.
   
   Jungle Love - thumpin variety of drum and bass w/DJs Sifu, Gamekat, MC
   Angel, guests. $5 before 11pm.
   9pm-3am, 21+, $7. 161 Eddy St, SF. 415.281.0772
   
   gravity - funk, dub, hip hop, jungle w/DJs tomas, andrew jervis,
   markus, guests weekly. on the mic: jamalski
   9pm-2am, 21+, $3. upstairs at Paradise, 11th & Folsom, SF.
   415.974.4358
   
   Four Four Baby - an afternoon of house music w/DJs patrick, lamont,
   chris orr. 3pm-10pm, 21+, $6. il pirata, 16th St @ Potrero, SF.
   415.626.2626
   
   Waterproof - ethereal grooves, real people w/DJs Mauricio, Franky.
   10pm-, 21+, Free. backflip, 601 Eddy @ Larkin, SF.
   
   Saolta - a TrancelectroCeltic dance party altern8 Sundays.
   9pm-2am, 21+. 1600 Market St, SF. 415.273.1845
   
   The Cafe - house w/DJs Jay-R, Mathew Baker. 5pm-2am, 21+, Free. the
   Cafe, 2367 Market Street, SF. 415.861.3846
   
                                   Monday
                                      
   rotation - jazz, hiphop, soul, acid jazz, funk w/DJs racer x, yamu,
   stef, rasta cue-tip, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. up & down club, 1151
   Folsom St, SF.
   
   Phreak Mode - Bass, Booty and Beat Trax w/DJs DJ Positive P, Kit
   Clayton (One Jack Mind), Jim, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $2. The Top, 424
   Haight, SF.
   
   Beat Box - drum'n'bass, jungle, downtempo w/DJs Val. 9:30pm-, 21+,
   Free. Dalva, 3121 16th St, SF.
   
   Noc Noc - Drum'n'bass, downtempo and electronica w/DJs Mohsen. every
   other Monday.
   9pm-2am, 21+, Free. 557 Haight St, SF. 415.861.5811
   
   One - techno, trance w/DJs Ulf, T.C., guests. Visuals by
   Eyetribe.8pm-2am, 21+, $4. the Cellar, 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF.
   
   Undertow - hardcore, techno, jungle. every other Monday starting
   August 25th. More details to follow...
   21+, $2. Mansion Pub, 132 Est., Davis. 916.759.7163
   
   NO TV - From Pure Ambient to House in 7 hours w/DJs Wunjo, Henrik
   Rosal, guest(s). $5 b4 10pm. Every other Monday.
   9pm-3:30am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.675.9899
   [1.12 - John Howard]
   [1.26 - Kenneth Sol]
   
   Spackle - house, techno w/DJs Sean, guests weekly. 6am-12:30pm, 21+,
   $4. 1028 Geary Ave, SF.
   
   Mondays on Hayes - house, techno w/DJs guest DJs weekly. starts in
   November.
   21+, Free. 520 Hayes, SF.
   
   Curveball - a midtempo night's dream w/DJs Smove, Rhyme Scheme, Tony
   Scott, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Club Paradise, 1028 Geary Blvd., SF.
   415.605.9057
   
   Density - 98% Concentrated Urban Beats saturated with Drum & Bass
   Deconstructions w/DJs Al Simmons, Fluid Motion (Om/Mephisto), Paul (On
   The One), Aural B (Sharpshooter), Moc. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Justice
   League, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   Sister - house, jungle, hip hop w/DJs guests weekly. cat's grill, 1190
   Folsom St, SF. 415.255.4333
   
                                  Tuesday
                                      
   Eclectic - house, jungle, drum & bass w/DJs Yamu, Siege, Franko,
   Foster, guests. Fresh fruit & condoms to all
   9pm-2am, 21+. Paradise Bar & Grill, 5356 College Ave, Oakland.
   
   Rhythm - house, techno w/DJs Daniel, Stevian, Mark Willson, Mark
   Silva, live congas by Brian, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, Free. Greg's Bar,
   551 W.Julian/Montgomery, San Jose. 408.286.4388
   
   Buggin' Out and the terrorist society - drum'n'bass for your head
   space on the 11th of every month w/DJs mateo, push, gamekat. 9:30p-,
   21+, $3. cafe mars, 798 Brannan, SF. 415.522.2343
   
   Pure - house w/DJs Brian Brandon, guests. 9pm-, 18+. The Rage, 1890
   Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.929.0232
   
   Static - Techno, Drum & Bass, Downtempo, Electro w/DJs ReAch, Quantum,
   Brad, Darin Marshall, Sutekh, guests. 10pm-2am, $2. 2925 16th @ S Van
   Ness, SF.
   
   Sedate Grooves - downbeat, drum'n'bass, breaks, hip hop and weird
   noises w/DJs David, Erik (Phunkatech), weekly guests. 10pm-2am, 21+,
   $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   
   Move - house w/DJs DJ Josh, guests weekly. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. 1028
   Geary @ Polk, SF.
   
   Vision Quest - Joe Lanza, Will, Dice, JKR, weekly guests. 9p-2a, 21+,
   $5. 1655 B Willow Pass Rd, Concord. 510.594.4007
   
   Spin Cycle - guests weekly. 7pm-10pm, Free. the Black Box Cabaret, 3rd
   St & 4th Avenue, Monterey.
   
   Groove - deep funky freaky groovy trancy trippy jazzy spacey
   progressive dance w/DJs Jerry Bonham, Blackstone, Ellen Ferrato,
   Julius Papp, Mouse, DRC. Little nibbly things until 3am.
   10:30pm-4:30am, 21+, $5. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
                                 Wednesday
                                      
   Come/Unity - House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first
   Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.241.8815
   
   Audio Alchemy - jazz, hip hop, drum & bass, latin, futuristic beats
   w/DJs Groove Merchant DJs, Tom Thump, Cool Chris. 7pm-, 21+. Liquid,
   2925 16th St @ So.Van Ness, SF.
   
   Phunckatech - jungle, hiphop w/DJs UFO, Juju, Abstract, Spell, Noel,
   Jason Mouse, S.C.U.B.A. SKWAD DJs Charlie Bucket and Beatjakr.
   10pm-3am, 18+, $5. Cat's Grill and Alley, 1190 Folsom, SF.
   415.331.1500x16
   
   JR's Club - house, trance w/DJs DJ Allen. 8pm-2am, Free. 2520 Camino
   Diablo, Walnut Creek. 510.256.1200
   
   ElectroniKa - Spesh, Kimon, Gil. Visuals by Hyperdelic.Fantastic Vibe.
   5pm-9pm, Free. 111 Minna St, SF.
   
   Recline - rare and abstract w/DJs Wisdom, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $5.
   Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard @ 2nd., SF. 415.824.9878
   
   Escape - ali, mitch, hutch, special guests. Jax House, 1145 N.Fulton,
   Fresno. 209.268.4289
   
   The Lounge - house w/DJs house DJs from near and far. 10p-2a, 21+, $3.
   The Red Lion Inn, 1401 Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.484.3706
   
   Twist - Deep and Swing House w/DJs Christopher, weekly guests.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $5. the Beer Cellar, 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF.
   415.317.1754
   
   the Bulletproof Social - jazz, soul, latin, house, disco, dub, jungle
   w/DJs kevin, george, jayson, richard, kirsten, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+,
   Free. nickie's, 484 haight st, SF.
   
   The Basement Lounge - house w/DJs Miguel "Migs", rotating deep dj's
   weekly. Club 1028, 1028 Geary @ Polk, SF. 415.376.1176
   
   sofalize - ...next level loungin' w/DJs rotating DJs. donations
   appreciated...bring i.d. and please respect the space.
   full coffee bar / literature.
   9pm-. 415.789.8308
   
   the Vinyl Treetmnt - house, jungle, techno w/DJs guests weekly. 21+,
   $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF. 415.522.2343
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                                 Info Lines
                                      
     * Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087. Usually has 5-10 listings, updated
       daily.
     * the Buzz-line, a global party network - 415.569.3300
     * Clubline - 415.979.8686
     * Frequency 8 Trance/Techno infoline - 415.541.5019
     * The Groove Line - (415) 331.1500 ext.4788
     * Housewares Rave Line - 415.281.0125
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                             Radio/TV/Net Shows
                                      
     * Sunday night 8pm-10pm - "Soundz of Resistance" w/DJ Poohbear.
       Underground electronic music, mainly jungle/drum and bass, dub and
       hard techno along with guest DJs, interviews and not-so-random
       amples of life. KZSC 88.1 (Santa Cruz)
     * Sunday night 11pm-2am - "The Dreaming/Innermind Show" w/DJ Miracle
       & Mr. Monchichi. House, Jungle, Trip-Hop, Ambient, Dub,
       Break-Beats & guest DJs. KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara)
     * Sunday night midnight-1am - "Shortwave" - Electronic music in all
       of its guises. KALX, 90.7 FM (Berkeley)
     * Tuesday night 11:30pm-2:30am - "Conscious Groove" - a show all
       about ambientdowntempojungletechnotrancedrumnbasstriphop love and
       more with weekly guest DJs. Free Radio Berkeley 104.1 (Berkeley)
     * Wednesday night 9pm-11pm - free form music mix. KPFA 94.1
       (Berkeley)
     * Wednesday night/Thursday morning - "the tube" hosted by miss laura
       aka lola. an electronic excursion into ambient soundscapes,
       ethereal trance, and washes of other whimsical muzik. KAZU 90.3
       (Monterey Bay Community Radio)
     * Thursday morning 10am-2pm - "The Further Adventures of Aardvark" -
       trip-hop to experimental to ambient to gabba etc, etc. KSJS 90.5
       (San Jose).
     * Thursday 5pm-9pm - The Beta Lounge - Live netcast of jungle, dub,
       breakbeat, hiphop, ambient, experimental.
       http://www.betalounge.com/
     * Thursday night 9pm-mid - "An Epiphany of Sound" hosted by J.C. The
       best in beats to satiate your inner child. Electronic dance,
       noise, spoken word, world music and more. Also available in
       RealAudio. KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
     * Friday 10am-3pm - weekly DJ netcasts. x-radio.
     * Friday 3pm-6pm - free form music mix. KUSF 90.3 (SF) (also
       available on Realaudio
     * Friday 9:30am-noon - Snappy the Aligator plays deep groove music
       that dips into cool electronic sounds, classic soul, reggae &
       more. KALX, 90.7 FM (Berkeley)
     * Fridays 9pm-midnight - Andrew from Groove Merchant spins on KUSF
       90.3 (SF)
     * Friday night/Saturday morning - midnight-noon. House/techno mix
       with Johnny K, Ozone & guests - KCSS 91.9 Central Valley (Turlock)
     * Friday night/Saturday morning - "Just Desserts" w/Mr.Goodwrench -
       10pm-2am Jungle, Detroit, Techno, Acid House, whacked-out Dub, and
       noise KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills
     * Friday night - Moondance. Ambient; 3am-7:30am, KUSF 90.3 SF.
     * Saturday afternoon - "Bus Stop" - music and talk w/guest DJs from
       SF and beyond. 2pm-3pm. KUSF 90.3 SF.
     * Saturday night 9pm-mid - "Underbrush" w/DJ Radon and guests -
       Beats, Breakz and Buzz KZSU 90.1 (Stanford). Also broadcast via
       RealAudio.
     * Saturday night 11pm - Flux Television, Viacom Channel 53 -
       Ambient, acid jazz and house music videos & interviews. (415)
       281-3377. flux@flux.net
     * (every other) Saturday night 10p-12:30a - "1984" w/DJ Richtoffen.
       House, Trance and German rave. 90.1 (Chico)
     * Saturday night - "amp" 1am. MTV.
     * Saturday night - "Subsonic". 1am-6am, KITS 105.3 SF.
     * Saturday night - "House Nation" w/"Anthems Mix", Top 10s from
       guest DJs and "London Connection w/DJ Doubt". 2am-4am, WILD 94.9
       SF.
     * Ambiance Magazine - 9:30p weds-sun PNC Cable 2 (Modesto &
       Oakdale), 9p fri & sat, marcus cable ch 9 (ceres & turlock).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   For a search interface to the calendar, see the Late Train club
   section (http://www.latetrain.com/clubs/).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                            Administrative Notes
                                      
   If anyone has info on any other events, send it to me! I can't
   possibly hope to get all the info every week.
   
   This info gets sent via email every Thursday. To subscribe or
   unsubscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
   majordomo@hyperreal.org with either the line
   
   subscribe sfraves-calendar or
   unsubscribe sfraves-calendar
   
   There is also an sfraves discussion mailing list for issues related to
   clubs, parties, house and techno music, etc. To subscribe, send e-mail
   to majordomo@hyperreal.org with the line
   
   subscribe sfraves
   
   in the body of the message.
   
   
    Derek Chung - dhchung@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 01:13:22 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:43:48 EST
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In a message dated 1/8/98 10:34:11 PM, you wrote:

<<Let's just say I heard a considerably different version on Saturday
night from one of the security people who worked at Origin on New Year's
Eve.  
>>

Phred,
I think you should elaborate upon this some more for the sake of the people
involved who want their money.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 01:13:31 1998
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:08:58 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
In-Reply-To: <34B55323.91C009DF@wenet.net>
References: <3490FB61.7318@pacbell.net>
 <3.0.1.32.19980108112058.01371a00@postoffice.pacbell.net>
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At 02:28 PM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote:
>So why are you talking in Nomad's defense, Vlad?  You made good points
****
Probably because he hasn't taken any of this personally.

>learned in this incident. 
****
what *did* we learn...?
1. don't take a check from an organization with all their profits [which
they're paying you out of] sitting in a cash box behind them.
2. according to everyone, nobody quite understands PLUR but them.
3. you can enjoy yourself, even in the face of adversity.

>And I haven't witnessed any "...we wind up sacrificing our selfs, and
>our positive outlooks on life." by discussing facts and rumors and fears
***
perhaps not, but it's still a drag to hear so many people carrying on about
what a shitty situation it was...

peacesometimesoonplease,
-SolR


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 01:21:14 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: This Week's SFR Calendar!
To: dhchung@hyperreal.org
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  SFR Calendar <sfraves-calendar@hyperreal.org>
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Hey how come Happy Kids isn't on the Calendar!

Kids, don't forget to come to Happy Kids on Saturday and say hello to me! 
:D :D :D :D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 01:43:59 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:43:36 -0800 (PST)
From: spazzcadet <spazzcadet@yahoo.com>
Subject: LITLE HOUSE IN THE CITY
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Hello partE kidz
there is an awesome party this saturday that everyone must go to
LITTLE HOUSE IN THE CITY please go and support my friends Doc martins
spinning 
Also UTOPIA, TONY  SIMON  DJ BLIZZ, DJ PAT  DAN ISSAC &DJ CHAMP
EVERYONE MUST GO THE #IS (415)436-0714 
its on the 10th 
chris I misss you so much hows it down in SD well love ya and Linzey I
will die if I dont see you so meet me on Saturday

HuGz
SPAZZCADET


==
>>>>>>>Love Solmaz!!!!!<<<<<<<

                        



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 01:45:50 1998
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D'OH!!

Troy told me to get my eyes checked, so I got my glasses out and sure 
enough, there was the Happy Kids info

:D :D :D :D   Sorry for the freakout! :D :D :D :D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 01:49:32 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:47:22 EST
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In a message dated 1/8/98 1:32:35 PM, Steven Allas wrote:

>I just hope that the
>people who got stiffed will let us know when/if they finally get paid.
Suffice
>to say, when this is finally resolved.  The rep you acquire travels in
>nanoseconds over the internet.
>
>The power of the truth and the people who uphold it will always win out over
>plain deceit.

As I stated at the end of my original post, I WILL IMMEDIATELY notify the
members of this listserve when/if the matter was resolved insofar as the
obligation that is owed to my partner and myself.

--vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 01:51:51 1998
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Brian Behlendorf wrote:

> And anyone who thinks they should be able to earn a living by throwing
> parties needs to have their heads examined.  Do something else, and throw
> parties because it's fun.  Even many massives are thrown by those with
> regular day jobs.  Heck, even Martin has another job.

This certanly is a big controvery in Raves today. My feelings are mixed
about it for shure. I have always thought that everyone deserves to be
able to make a living at something they enjoy, scence you spend most of
your waking hours at it. I guess this comes back to the whole tension
between the concept of what an "artist" is. If Martin didn't have to
have a day job, would he? What if it meant compromising is artistic
integraty?

Thats whats going on here I think. The question of whether or not one
should compromise their artistic integraty. What I'm talking about goes
beyond just the Nomad issue ofcource.
-- 
-=Pengo=-

"For the introduction of a new kind of music must be shunned as
imperiling the whole state; since styles of music are never disturbed
without affecting the most important political institutions."

-Plato, circa 400 B.C.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 01:59:31 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-08-98 14:48


"Would that be possible?  Could you have Starbucks, djs, and 
chippendales/hooters frolicking around while "working"?  I don't know ff."

Well then, I'd like to donate my humble services to do a motion study in the
Hooters division just to check the feasibility of this venture.  But mind you,
I do require hazard pay for this type of work.  Since there are organization
trying to validate unforeseen circumstances as a money making scheme, I would
like to jump on the proverbial bandwagon.  Thanks ever so much.

aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 02:27:31 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
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i guess what i meant was that..
like friendships and love...
music, and my personal passion for it will last just as long.
so they're both timeless in my definition. :)

there's a sublime song that defines why i love music so persoanlly,
because..

"one good thing about music.. when it hits you, you feel no pain...
so hit me with music... hit me with music now, yeah... hit me with music..
brutalize me with music"

people can hurt you
turn their back on you
but music.. will remain to be my best friend :)

with all due respect i love my friends.. ms.k1dd and doreen in particular
xo girlz.

xo
lara



On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Starchild wrote:

> Lara shares:
> 
> >my only comment on this would have to be
> >
> >that you say that vibe is timeless but the type of muysic i listen to will
> >change..
> >well
> >
> >that's what i love so much about music... it's forever changing.. getting
> >better...
> 
>         Yes it is, and I love that too.  Especially since the old music is
> still always there for us to reach back and reclaim, as long as
> civilization continues.
> 
>         What I was getting at is that while I think most of us can agree to
> a large extent on what is good vibe (hugs, smiles, energetic dancing, etc.)
> and bad vibe (tough/mean attitudes, rude, selfish behavior, etc.), it is
> much harder to reach agreement on which music is good and bad.
> 
>         The tunes considered good in the underground today would not be
> what most people in the underground liked 30 years ago (hell, they weren't
> even around then), and I doubt today's music will be the most popular thing
> in 30 years.  And if you go from region to region, you will find that
> different types of music are popular with ravers and fellow travelers.
> 
>         But I don't think hugs and smiles will ever lose their popularity.
> That's what I meant about vibe being timeless and universal compared to
> music.
> 
> Much love,
>                                  <<< Starchild >>>
> 
> 
>                        "Friendliness never goes out of style."
>                            -paraphrasing of Levi's slogan
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 02:40:07 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-08-98 17:53


<<<<<This certanly is a big controvery in Raves today. My feelings are mixed
about it for shure. I have always thought that everyone deserves to be
able to make a living at something they enjoy, scence you spend most of
your waking hours at it. I guess this comes back to the whole tension
between the concept of what an "artist" is. If Martin didn't have to
have a day job, would he? What if it meant compromising is artistic
integraty?>>>>>

You make an excellent point.  Sort of like Monet working in a cafe while
creating his paintings.  Or perhaps doing family portraits to pay bills?  I
think it is up to the individual to make a choice to do things in a manner
consistent with some philosophy on life.  Take this recent event with Nomad,
look at their history, look at how people are/were affected by their actions. 
Now what conclusion would an average, reasonable, cautious, and prudent
person draw from all this?  That might speak volumes on what stance the general
raver public would take on this matter.

<<<<Thats whats going on here I think. The question of whether or not one
should compromise their artistic integraty. What I'm talking about goes
beyond just the Nomad issue ofcource.>>>
-- 
-=Pengo=-

There are those that would argue, "What artistic integrity?"  Nomad wrote a
vague, unspecific letter in response to heated statements.  Since you use the
word integrity, how about this scenario, "Hey man (Nomad crew), I just finished
my set.  Can I get the agreed upon fee 'cause I want to chill with my peeps and
not bother you later?"  Nomad's response would be, "Sure, no prob."  How's that
for integrity?  It's not some fanciful wish, I know of promoters who actually
do business like that see, like BAM, good set, here's the money, have a great
time the rest of the night.

<<<<"For the introduction of a new kind of music must be shunned as
imperiling the whole state; since styles of music are never disturbed
without affecting the most important political institutions."

-Plato, circa 400 B.C.>>>>

Outstanding historical find on this quote!  To think that in 400 B.C., music
was already creating such an intellectual debate to warrant this statement.  I
feel enlightened.  Thank you.

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 02:40:11 1998
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:MAILER-DAEMON's message of 01-08-98 19:14


hey spazz...do you have Doc's e-mail?...he was going to play at the next
Sunshine Daydream on Feb. 14th but he'll be in Australia on the Logic
tour...heard he might be in Hawaii in April with Carl Cox and just wanted to
touch base with him...aight den...

moki4u2c@hotmail.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 03:02:18 1998
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From: laura@hyperreal.org
To: brian@hyperreal.org, rayvonie@ix.netcom.com, sutekh@belief-systems.com
Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
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Brian Behlendorf wrote (in response to Vlad...):

>I wonder if when Geoff White outlined the principles behind the acronym
>PLUR if this was anything close to what he meant.  My guess is that it's not.

I don't think Geoff White meant that either.  My take is that the four
pillars of the house community, Peace, Love, Unity and Respect, were
more of a personal ideal and personal goal than anything else.  But
because enough people chose of their own free will to consider these
pillars and try to keep them in mind, that the community grew.

Vlad said something like 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 03:17:23 1998
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Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
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> Hi Everyone....
> 
>         Is this thread now turning into a witch-hunt.  The promoters from
> Nomad said their peace....  everything from this point on is now personal.
> Nomad has taken a lot of heat from this list over the last few weeks.  I have
> read every post, some of which were amusing, and others were down right cruel.
<snipped for brevity> 
 
	You are in fact, right. I wasn't even really concerned with whether 
Nomad replied or not. Their story just didn't jive with what I saw 
that night.. and I took it personally. Thanks for taking me to task 
and allowing me to step out of my own view of the event and see both 
sides. 
	We may not be able to change other people's behavior.. but we can 
change our own. The choice to attend Nomad's parties in the future is 
mine. I will not make that choice so lightly in the future. 

-Faro

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 03:23:00 1998
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        Slow Down Diana....   I Am not defending anyone, all I'm just
speaking from a removed position, and from my own perspective.   The only
thing I'm defending Is the right of promoters business privacy.
        This list is a discussion group about raving issues... And its the
perfect place to talk about this , as well as all aspects of parties.....
but lately it has been sounding like a promoter lynch mob.  It started with
the thread about people not getting paid at Resolution on Treasure Island,
then people not getting paid at Origin.  And now everyone is dumping all
their aggression (warranted or not) on Nomad.   Are they the designated
scapegoat for everyone to vent their anger on?  Well From an outside view,
it sounds like shit!  In this country people are still innocent until PROVEN
guilty....  and that means more than hearsay, innuendo, rumored character
references, and even circumstantial evidence.   I don't remember when this
list became some form of rave version of 'The Peoples Court'
        This thread has stretched the boundaries of rationality.  I know
that when you become too close to an issue, your emotions take over, and you
loose sight of the big picture, and that's what's happening here. Sure it's
a lot easier for me to make this evaluation, because i'm looking at it from
an outside view.  Im not saying that the promoters of Origin, or Resolution
are right or wrong... I have no idea because I don't know all the details.
I can say that it is wrong to judge a promoter negatively because they don't
'open their books' to you, or because they take a long time to reply to a
post.   Nomad said they are taking care of their obligations.   They don't
need to give anyone a timeline or answer why they paid people with check...
That called Proprietary Information.... It's no one else's business.
       This list has a tendency to OVERREACT when promoters and money issues
are involved.   You would all be surprised how much ALL promoters care about
this scene.   The only reason that most of you feel that promoters will rip
of the scene is because most of you don't give it a second thought when you
SLAM these same promoters.  That's why flame wars start so easy on this
forum, and in the end... NOTHING CHANGES!   If any of you think that
positive changes are going to come out of this whole Bashing of promoters...
well my 6 years of rave promoting experience disagrees with you.  The best
way to influence positive change in the way promoters treat OUR scene is by
giving them support and respect.  That way they will have higher goals to
fulfill, and they will try harder not to fuck up, cause they know that
people are counting on them.  But when you assume a promoter is going to
fuck up... and you let them know (via this list) before the party even takes
place....  Then Why are you all so surprised when it actually happens.
Positive Thought is a Major Contributor to Positive Output.

Keep it Real.     Vlad

inanna wrote:

> Vlad defended Nomad with this:
> --------------------------------
> Summery.....
> 1.  Never make someone else's business your agenda.
> 2.  If you don't like it... don't support it.
> 3.  If you think it can be done better... do it yourself... and put your
> money were your mouth is.
> 4.  Live by the Golden Rule.
> 5.  Keep it Real
>
> So why are you talking in Nomad's defense, Vlad?  You made good points
> about people voting with their consumer dollars; that has been said here
> before.  I think this incident with Nomad will not be the last - but I
> do hope that less people will be hurt in the future because of what they
> learned in this incident.
>
> And I haven't witnessed any "...we wind up sacrificing our selfs, and
> our positive outlooks on life." by discussing facts and rumors and fears
> around the Origen/Nomad issue here on SFRaves.  Vlad, SFRaves is the
> appropriate forum for this discussion to take place.  This discussion is
> timely and appropriately placed in this public forum.  I think promoters
> should accept the fact gracefully that if you actively court this online
> community to attend your functions, and something goes wrong at those
> functions, you will hear about it in this public rehash manner. It may
> take a little more time for people to get this out of their systems.
> There is some genuine anger and pain in this group about being taken for
> a bunch of rubes in the very environment, a rave, that we are all
> conditioned to let our guards down in!  Last but definitely not least, I
> think we all want to see our fellow ravers, the dj's, be paid for their
> work.
>
> Diana




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 03:27:56 1998
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Oops, I got typing so fast I cut myself off :-)

Anyway, let me start over again.

I see the PLUR acronym get thrown around so much that it's become
trite and the butt of many jokes and much sarcasm (hi Niels). 

	At the bare root, people go to raves because they like to.

Generating and/or receiving pleace, love, unity, and respect *can*
be a by-product, but generalizing too much and assuming that everyone
must feel it or does feel it, or even cares about it, is going too
far.

It's easy to throw around a fluffy sounding acronymn, and it's even easier 
to twist it into something bigger that what it is.

In 1993 I read an essay that was either written by Geoff White, or
at least found and passed around by him.  It was entitled something
like "the four pillars of the house community" and discussed peace,
love, unity, and respect.  The essay was innocent, thoughtful, and
expressed something very personal that a group of people who had
participated experienced.  Shortly thereafter -- after a series of
very positive experiences I had PRODUCING *and* attending parties -- I 
tried to write my own take on the whole thing....and so have other people.

In all cases:

* It WASN'T about proscribing a code of behavior for others.

* It WASN'T about creating a measuring stick to compare one person's
	perceptions, experience, or behavior to another's.

* It WAS a description of a certain spirituality that someone felt,
	and wanted to share -- with the hope that others might recognize it.

PLUR needs a breather, it needs a rest.  It needs to go back to being
the small jewel that some people find and carry within them rather than
a big flag that people wave.  It needs to be a choice, something
discovered, rather than something demanded of others.

Laura

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 03:31:14 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:29:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Max Vision <vision@mpath.com>
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It's been interesting, but I am buried in email...
see you on the dance floor!
Max


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From: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Subject: music and time
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> music, and my personal passion for it will last just as long.
> so they're both timeless in my definition. :)

> people can hurt you
> turn their back on you
> but music.. will remain to be my best friend :)
> 

actually, i find that as i grow older i develop something akin to a
very personal relationship with my music.  there's a whole box of cd's
that i used to listen to with my ex-wife, i really can't listen to
them now (though they're sitting in my parents' basement should i ever
decide i want to bring those memories back...)  there are albums i
listened to at certain times of my life, and listening to them can
take me right back to when i first heard them.  then there are a few
albums i've listened to for so long, over so many periods of my life,
that all the memories associated with the music are jumbled up into
thousands of shades of emotion, listening to them is like hanging out
with an old friend who's been with you through good times and bad...

but i'm not really one to live in my memories.  i've known some people
who never quit listening to the music they jammed out to in high
school - classic rock, generally, but it could be anything.  i have
this theory about people who listen to the same stuff all their lives
- it's like they've stopped living, and their musical tastes reflect
this stagnancy.  like maybe they long for their high school days when
everything seemed magical and new, but instead of finding new things
to bring that emotion back, they turn on the oldies station and
reminesce...

-mw







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 04:28:40 1998
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From: Doreen <COSTAD@SONOMA.EDU>
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awwww  lara!!  *Hug*
dood, we're going to kiLL sat. nite bay beee..and all friday before that.
and sunday too.  why not sunday?

i DO expect to see some of ya folx here ;)

doreen

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 04:29:28 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
cc: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: music and time
In-Reply-To: <19980109035602.12689.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com>
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i can agree to this.
i went from def leppard to the new kidz to vanilla ice to metallica to
morrissey and the cure and depeche mode and the smiths to 3'11 to juliana
hatfield to jungle and i'm still changing.
but just because i like pulling out my CURE and MORRISSEY CD's once in
awhile to hear a good tune doesn't mean i'm longing for the past :)

we are ever changing.


On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Messiah Wannabe wrote:

> 
> 
> > music, and my personal passion for it will last just as long.
> > so they're both timeless in my definition. :)
> 
> > people can hurt you
> > turn their back on you
> > but music.. will remain to be my best friend :)
> > 
> 
> actually, i find that as i grow older i develop something akin to a
> very personal relationship with my music.  there's a whole box of cd's
> that i used to listen to with my ex-wife, i really can't listen to
> them now (though they're sitting in my parents' basement should i ever
> decide i want to bring those memories back...)  there are albums i
> listened to at certain times of my life, and listening to them can
> take me right back to when i first heard them.  then there are a few
> albums i've listened to for so long, over so many periods of my life,
> that all the memories associated with the music are jumbled up into
> thousands of shades of emotion, listening to them is like hanging out
> with an old friend who's been with you through good times and bad...
> 
> but i'm not really one to live in my memories.  i've known some people
> who never quit listening to the music they jammed out to in high
> school - classic rock, generally, but it could be anything.  i have
> this theory about people who listen to the same stuff all their lives
> - it's like they've stopped living, and their musical tastes reflect
> this stagnancy.  like maybe they long for their high school days when
> everything seemed magical and new, but instead of finding new things
> to bring that emotion back, they turn on the oldies station and
> reminesce...
> 
> -mw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 04:42:09 1998
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Subject: How do you?
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What do you have do to decompress the .qz file format used in the SF Raves
archives.

BTW, I'm using a PC

-Sean

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 04:43:02 1998
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laura@hyperreal.org wrote:

> I see the PLUR acronym get thrown around so much that it's become
> trite and the butt of many jokes and much sarcasm (hi Niels).
>
>         At the bare root, people go to raves because they like to.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!  Because Raving is FUN!!!!!

> Generating and/or receiving pleace, love, unity, and respect *can*
> be a by-product, but generalizing too much and assuming that everyone
> must feel it or does feel it, or even cares about it, is going too
> far.
>
> It's easy to throw around a fluffy sounding acronymn, and it's even easier
> to twist it into something bigger that what it is.

Well that's the whole idea.  how else is the message going to get out.  We live
in a consumer society were the majority of people digest products based upon
their marketing and advertising philosophies.  Because Raving is FUN, and
enjoyable, it makes it a wonderful affiliate with a philosophy such as PLUR.
The association gets imbedded into the impressionable minds of the young ravers,
and then they begin to associate PLUR, with a good time.   I consider this
Positive Role Modeling.

> In 1993 I read an essay that was either written by Geoff White, or
> at least found and passed around by him.  It was entitled something
> like "the four pillars of the house community" and discussed peace,
> love, unity, and respect.  The essay was innocent, thoughtful, and
> expressed something very personal that a group of people who had
> participated experienced.  Shortly thereafter -- after a series of
> very positive experiences I had PRODUCING *and* attending parties -- I
> tried to write my own take on the whole thing....and so have other people.
>
> In all cases:
>
> * It WASN'T about proscribing a code of behavior for others.
>
> * It WASN'T about creating a measuring stick to compare one person's
>         perceptions, experience, or behavior to another's.
>
> * It WAS a description of a certain spirituality that someone felt,
>         and wanted to share -- with the hope that others might recognize it.

Yes you are correct about the above points... because PLUR is not tangible... It
is an Intrinsic Philosophy.

> PLUR needs a breather, it needs a rest.  It needs to go back to being
> the small jewel that some people find and carry within them rather than
> a big flag that people wave.  It needs to be a choice, something
> discovered, rather than something demanded of others.

I definitely disagree with you on this one.  PLUR needs to be spread.  It needs
to be taken to all the corners of the earth.  It is the grandest of all
philosophies, and needs to be extended to all brother man.  In a commercial day
and age that we live in, you need to use positive propaganda such as PLUR to
fight of the negative influences of our commercial brainwashing consumer
society.   How else can you hope to get the message out.  Stumbling over it
accidentally in life may be good for a few of the fortunate, but not everyone is
so lucky, and they need guidance and influence early in life before they are too
set in their ways, and sell their soul to today's capitalistic 'dog-eat-dog'
society.

Feel Good Entertainment is dedicated to spreading the positive philosophy of
PLUR to as many people as possible, and it is our sincere hope that the message
of PLUR that we promote today will influence the minds of the leaders of
tomorrow, and help create a better world for our children's children.

Keep it Real.     Vlad

ps. if any of you think that I am an eccentric lunatic with a God complex...
You may be right :)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 05:10:18 1998
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Vlad,

You have me confused with someone else.  I said that promoters should
NOT have to open their books.  I also said that promoters should honor
their business contracts.  I said we should talk about this and anything
else rave or not rave related until the conversation dies out
naturally.  I hate someone else decreeing that my topic should not be
discussed.  I decide what I want to talk about in this forum.  If no one
else wants to "converse" about this with me, then just don't respond to
my posts.

Diana Greer

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 05:11:59 1998
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Try: http://www.nova.edu/help/pcutil.html

Billabong

seanc@pacbell.net wrote on Thursday January 8, 1998 at  8:43pm:
>What do you have do to decompress the .qz file format used in the SF Raves
>archives.
>
>BTW, I'm using a PC
>
>-Sean

------------------------------------------------------
| Where do you want to get your Email today?
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000000 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 05:22:52 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:16:08 EST
To: spazzcadet@yahoo.com, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: D O C  I N  S F!!!!
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For those of you who haven't seen Doc Martin spin his 3+ hr. set yet, I
suggest you do at "Little House" This Sat. night. As I understand it, Doc will
be spinning on 3 decks. He's had some unbelievable sets on 3 decks in the
past, so look forward to this one. 8)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 05:24:37 1998
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I would really love to see these. Is there a place i can find
what geoff and you wrote?

lots of ash in that subject line.Must have been a fire here or something.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

laura@hyperreal.org wrote:
 
> In 1993 I read an essay that was either written by Geoff White, or
> at least found and passed around by him.  It was entitled something
> like "the four pillars of the house community" and discussed peace,
> love, unity, and respect.  The essay was innocent, thoughtful, and
> expressed something very personal that a group of people who had
> participated experienced.  Shortly thereafter -- after a series of
> very positive experiences I had PRODUCING *and* attending parties -- I
> tried to write my own take on the whole thing....and so have other people.
> 
> In all cases:
> 
> * It WASN'T about proscribing a code of behavior for others.
> 
> * It WASN'T about creating a measuring stick to compare one person's
>         perceptions, experience, or behavior to another's.
> 
> * It WAS a description of a certain spirituality that someone felt,
>         and wanted to share -- with the hope that others might recognize it.
> 
> PLUR needs a breather, it needs a rest.  It needs to go back to being
> the small jewel that some people find and carry within them rather than
> a big flag that people wave.  It needs to be a choice, something
> discovered, rather than something demanded of others.
> 
> Laura


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 05:25:54 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:23:07 -0800
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At 7:27 PM -0800 1/8/98, laura@hyperreal.org wrote:
>
>PLUR needs a breather, it needs a rest.  It needs to go back to being
>the small jewel that some people find and carry within them rather than
>a big flag that people wave.  It needs to be a choice, something
>discovered, rather than something demanded of others.
>
>Laura

This was a paragraph that's needed writing for *at least* the last year in
my not ever humble opinion.

I have become so tired of people beating each other over the head with the
four pillars of PLUR the same way that christians have historically beat
entire continents of unwitting 'converts' (i.e. convert or we'll kill you.)
over the head with the bible.

Both cases are just so ugly.

When you transform PLUR into an organized religion, it definitely loses
quite of bit of what made it special in the first place and in fact becomes
something itself that must me stopped.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 06:02:59 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Otay, otay, in the humblty of myself, the fact I am getting snot stuft sick,
and my dizzy head feeling I will now say one or too things.

1: I am sorry I said "you suck" starchild, but I was just upset. (excuses,
excuses)
2: I just wanted to clarify "stoopid" is not the same as "stupid".  And, yes,
I did mean to spell it like that.  And yes, it was fairly harsh, and I am
sorry for that as well.  
3: Monty, everyone's shit stinks the same.

Have a fun weekend you all!!
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 06:05:54 1998
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"...And now everyone is dumping all their aggression (warranted or not)
on Nomad.   Are they the designated scapegoat for everyone to vent their
anger on?...?  

I guess Nomad is the most unlike promoter in this discussion, Vlad. 
(Okay I am being a little sarcastic.) Now, let's examine why that is.  I
am willing to bet that Nomad has possibly screwed more people than
what's-their-names.  See look at that.  I remember Nomad's name,
(because I personally got ripped off by them last year.)  I didn't
remember the other promoter's name.  Maybe the other promoters ripped me
off more than Nomad ever tried to, but for some unlucky reason, (perhaps
I was partying sober, or I had a cold coming on, or who knows why.) I
walked away from that Nomad party feeling really ripped off.  The next
morning I went through my fliers to figure out who's party it was.  I
bitched about it on the list and then got my act together to request the
direct phone number to the promoters themselves.  When the phone number
finally arrived at least a week had passed and my courage to rant to the
promoter withered.  (I think this is pretty typical consumer behavior,
it is very difficult to complain to someone, especially when you feel
that they are not going to care about your feelings anyway.) (Boy, do I
understand how that comment will be interpreted!)  I vowed to never
attend another Nomad event - and I haven't, but I haven't partied too
much in the past 6 months anyway.  Now right or wrong, I felt that I
belonged in defending the DJ's who got written rubber checks.  I feel
that in this debate they may be unwilling to come forward with their
feelings.  (I imagine those guys really can't say a damn thing right now
because they have to make sure they don't rock the boat so badly that
they never get another gig again.)  That may be an erroneous stereotype
of mine, but it comes from a good place in my heart. ;) And speaking
about coming from a good place in my heart; I think Nomad should either
clean up their act so we quit hearing bad things about them, (it will be
hard for them; but not impossible.) Or perhaps Nomad should change to
another line of work. :)  Now okay, that is idealistic - but this is
really all kinda silly at this point anyway.  Nomad should pay their
bills.  Amen.

Diana

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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:17:16 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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I think that was a bit harsh. It was a massive. we can only expect
fights.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Tekno313 wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 1/4/98 3:49:00 AM, you wrote:
> 
> <<If you missed this party, you missed out.  Don't miss the next one!
> ToonTown is still great as ever.
> 
> Jake
> >>
> I disagree. This party had no vibe. There were too many rooms playing similar
> music, and just too many rooms in general for the amount of people who were
> there. The Toon Town room's sound system was way too loud. Period. I was'nt
> even near the friggin speakers, and anytime I was in that room, my ears hurt.
> A fight broke out right in front of me. Looked like a bunch of bored suburban
> kids who wanted to build a rep over some bullshit, really. It took about a few
> minutes for security to show up to brake up the fight. By that time, it had
> pretty much ended on its own. Real effect means of controlling the crowd,
> guys!
> 
> --Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 06:20:52 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:12:22 EST
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Subject: I'll see you at Happy Kids :o)
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Hey there! 
Most of you i havn't seen in way to long...and some even longer, well i hope
to be lucky enuf to see you all at Happy Kids on saturday nite. I'll be the
girl in the vest(jus fer you unkl noah!!) and a huge smile dancing her butt
off  :o) Is there a meeting spot? Besides in front during UnkleNoahs set?
well mad love to you all...see ya soon!!! 
JiL :o)
p.s. Ms.K1dd, i'll see you there rite?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 06:25:19 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:22:31 EST
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Subject: Re: PLUR bashing (was promoter bashing)
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my whole idea on plur, well, is the butt of a joke.  I heard it from some
people once and ever since it is what I associate plur with.

PLUFY = Peace, Love, Unity, Fuck You!!!

My personal opinion is that plur has turned into the new fashionable word,
much like the word "whatever" or the word "duh."  The difference to me,
though, is that plur had a meaning, but it got played out, now it is just the
popular phrase used by people who are trying to be cool, are high on drugs
(e), and very seldomly used in the sense it was meant to be used in, I
suppose.  God, do you guys remember back in the day (of my elementry and jr.
high days) when we used to be down with peace, love and friendship?  that's
what is used to be.  

I don't know, I am feelin kinda dizzy and not all there, so I am gonna jet.  I
can't clearly make my points tonight.

Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 06:29:49 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
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Subject: Happy Kids. :)
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Hey there,

Its me, Haze. :)  Well, I'm sure you guys have seen these before, however
here comes another one, and this time, like, not the same day as the Rave.
:)

What I wanna know is if any of you beautiful SFR peoples out there would
mind givin' the Haze kitty here a ride to and from Happy Kids so she
doesn't become an un-Happy Kid *sniffle*.

I can pay ya in money, or candy, or toys and stuff, promise!

I'm in the South Bay, San Jose. :)

Love and hugs and schtuff,
Haze

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 06:37:56 1998
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:35:39 -0800
From: Czefir <Czefir@ix.netcom.com>
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hi hi,

i was wondering if anyone could identify the name of the song these
lyrics come from..."sex drive...take a ride in my car"  im almost
totally sure its from a sheep on drugs song although ive only heard the
grace jones cover of it.  any help would be cool :)

thanks....
Megan          Czefir
  
:) :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 06:53:47 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
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Subject: Happy Kids Part II!
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BTW, did I mention that I REALLY wanna see Uncle Noah's set and meet 'the
man himself'? :)

Brought to you by the:
Help make Haze a Happy Kid fund.

tee hee :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:22:45 1998
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:22:28 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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I would just like to say that raves don't have to cost any money
whatsoever. You could take your home, re-arrange furniture, call a
friend who was turntables, call all the DJs you are friends with and ask
them to spin for free, borrow black lights from friends' rooms, borrow
strobes, borrow blacklight poster, stick in "Minds Eye" into your VCR,
call friends you know that sell "good" drugs, pick some oranges from
your yard, fill a huge jug up with cold water, throw pillows in a
corner, hang tarps and bed sheets all over your house, call about 50 or
so of your good friends and rave until sun up. Sounds good to me!

No Bad Vibes, No unwanted people, No bunk drugs, No knives, No guns, No
money! 

And just because it's at a house doesn't mean it's not a rave!
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

TeKnODiVa wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-05 20:06:23 EST, you write:
> 
> << If you don't want crap in your scene don't support it.  The "TOON TOWN was
>  cancelled so I regretfully went to ORIGIN and it sucked," attitude just
>  perpetuates more crap.  IMO there are too many promoters throwing too many
>  terrible parties.  Believe me, less parties will mean better parties.  The
>  scene needs some sorting out.   >>
> 
>     I'm not a party every weekend type of person, but I do definately agree
> with this.  Everything is overwhelming right now and is just blowing up in our
> faces.  ARe we doing anything about this?? We're so desperate to have a good
> time we give up and go to whatever rave we can find.  I don't get to go that
> often, so I only pick the parties I really want to go to.  Maybe that's why I
> have a good time.  Or maybe it's just that I have a positive outlook on the
> whole scene.  OR maybe everyone's so jaded and drugged and sick of it all that
> they just don't care about changing things for the better.  I'm not going to
> preach.. I'm not exactly the oldest or wisest person on the list.  But maybe
> that means I have the more hopeful outlook.  All I know is when I'm older and
> I can get my shit together I'm going to throw the type of party I want to be
> at.  ANd it's going to be as friggin cheap to get in as it can possibly be and
> everyone is going to have the time of their life even if I have to personally
> go around cheering them all up.  I know there's a ton of you out there that
> want to throw a party like that.  You all have this *perfect rave* in your
> heads.  So get together... if you all pool your money you can do it.  It
> doesn't even have to cost that much.  A free party or something.  I don't even
> know what to say anymore.  It's all negative energy and people getting screwed
> over.  And a lot of good points have been made in the argument, but it's time
> to put our money where our blowpops are.   After all.. the scene is what you
> make it.
> 
>           hugs n'stuff.
>            'trice the tekno diva
> 
>  "We should make liquid E that you can absorb through your skin.  Then we
> could go around squirting people with it at raves, and they'd love everyone
> without ever knowing why."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:23:58 1998
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:23:45 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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My favorite rave toys are:

Vibrating Mr. Potato Head
Silent Sam
Vics VapoRub
My rainbow lightsword (if anyone has seen it please email me)
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

TeKnODiVa wrote:
> 
> *Ahem*
>       WHat this list needs is a pointless thread to get our minds off
> political issues in the scene.  Something that will take up tons of bandwidth
> and be so irrelevant that no one can possibly flame it.  So.. here is my
> futile attempt to brainwash you all from these negative energies surrounding
> us and our parties.
> 
>         WHat is you favorite rave toy you've ever owned?  Or what is the
> coolest toy/costume accessory you have ever seen at a rave or elsewhere?
> 
>    Mine would be:
> *My Nosy bear (orange and blue bear with a basket ball hoop in his nose, so
> when you squeeze his tummy the ball goes through the hoop)
> *Frank (a little sesame street honker guy)
> *A plastic camera with colorful knobs and a flashing red light on the front
> that played house music when you pressed it
> *Eyedrops that make your eyes glow in the dark
> 
>           Now you all will spend your days mindlessly replying to this letter.
> GO!
> 
>            hugs n'stuff,
>            'trice the i have too much time on my hands tekno diva
> 
> "Grow up.. not old"

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:26:02 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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My friend said it best,

"The vibe at a party is everyone's collective energey put together as a
whole. And if there is a negative person at a party the vibe will drop
incredibly low, and it's not fun."
                        - Eric "Blow Pop"


Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Messiah Wannabe wrote:
> 
> what is vibe?  either it's there or it's not.  you feel it or you
> don't.  it's hard to explain.
> 
> vibe is free glow-in-the-dark oranges...
> vibe is stuffed animals making creepy passes at you...
> vibe is every individual on the dance floor bonding like atoms into
> one giant mind-altering molecule...
> vibe is people tagging the wall with jello...
> vibe is when the 303 filter-sweep knob rotates
> threethousandninehundredandsixtyninedegrees...
> vibe is pouring the sand out of your shoes between sets, and it's a
> warehouse party...
> vibe is when people you never meet remember your name...
> vibe is when the the voice mail directions include instructions for
> building your own spacecraft...
> vibe is when you hug someone at midnight, and when you open your eyes
> and let go you're the last two people there...
> vibe is leaving after dawn, only to remember you're parked on the
> other side of the country...
> 
> -messiah
> 
> ---Steven_Allas <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > at parties and/or raves, if the music is good and you got a little
> space to
> > dance, is that enough to give you a good vibe?...I mean we've all
> been to
> > locations that were a bit cramped, but say the music was good, not
> phenomenal
> > on every track but really good...would that be a good vibe?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:33:57 1998
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:33:42 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Katie Zitterbart wrote:

> devil-raver hellhounds.  It makes them bad businesspeople - DUH
Raves are not a business. The only reason there is an entrance fee is
because nothing is ever free. Yes, it is good for promoters to make
money. I definetly would want a promoter to make money. I just hope
that  the money is not the only reason they are throwing the rave. 

A Warning To All Money Grubbin Promoters:
	Besides all the gangsters, assholes, jerks, and bad vibes at a party
there are RAVERS. A great majority of these ravers can sense the vibe of
any room just by walking into it. They can sense the vibe of another
person accross the room. They can sense the vibe of the promoters just
by being at the rave. If then vibe is screaming money, you may be able
to fool the gangsters, the assholes, the jerks and all the bad vibes,
but you can't fool the ravers. Just remember this next time you charge
us $25 to get into a party that is only worth a nickle.

Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:36:38 1998
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And get the eviction notice on Monday morning before all your friends leave for
work...  *grin*

Paul Hayden wrote:

> I would just like to say that raves don't have to cost any money
> whatsoever. You could take your home, re-arrange furniture, call a
> friend who was turntables, call all the DJs you are friends with and ask
> them to spin for free, borrow black lights from friends' rooms, borrow
> strobes, borrow blacklight poster, stick in "Minds Eye" into your VCR,
> call friends you know that sell "good" drugs, pick some oranges from
> your yard, fill a huge jug up with cold water, throw pillows in a
> corner, hang tarps and bed sheets all over your house, call about 50 or
> so of your good friends and rave until sun up. Sounds good to me!
>
> No Bad Vibes, No unwanted people, No bunk drugs, No knives, No guns, No
> money!
>
> And just because it's at a house doesn't mean it's not a rave!
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
>
> TeKnODiVa wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 98-01-05 20:06:23 EST, you write:
> >
> > << If you don't want crap in your scene don't support it.  The "TOON TOWN was
> >  cancelled so I regretfully went to ORIGIN and it sucked," attitude just
> >  perpetuates more crap.  IMO there are too many promoters throwing too many
> >  terrible parties.  Believe me, less parties will mean better parties.  The
> >  scene needs some sorting out.   >>
> >
> >     I'm not a party every weekend type of person, but I do definately agree
> > with this.  Everything is overwhelming right now and is just blowing up in our
> > faces.  ARe we doing anything about this?? We're so desperate to have a good
> > time we give up and go to whatever rave we can find.  I don't get to go that
> > often, so I only pick the parties I really want to go to.  Maybe that's why I
> > have a good time.  Or maybe it's just that I have a positive outlook on the
> > whole scene.  OR maybe everyone's so jaded and drugged and sick of it all that
> > they just don't care about changing things for the better.  I'm not going to
> > preach.. I'm not exactly the oldest or wisest person on the list.  But maybe
> > that means I have the more hopeful outlook.  All I know is when I'm older and
> > I can get my shit together I'm going to throw the type of party I want to be
> > at.  ANd it's going to be as friggin cheap to get in as it can possibly be and
> > everyone is going to have the time of their life even if I have to personally
> > go around cheering them all up.  I know there's a ton of you out there that
> > want to throw a party like that.  You all have this *perfect rave* in your
> > heads.  So get together... if you all pool your money you can do it.  It
> > doesn't even have to cost that much.  A free party or something.  I don't even
> > know what to say anymore.  It's all negative energy and people getting screwed
> > over.  And a lot of good points have been made in the argument, but it's time
> > to put our money where our blowpops are.   After all.. the scene is what you
> > make it.
> >
> >           hugs n'stuff.
> >            'trice the tekno diva
> >
> >  "We should make liquid E that you can absorb through your skin.  Then we
> > could go around squirting people with it at raves, and they'd love everyone
> > without ever knowing why."




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:41:29 1998
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Subject: Re: ToonTown review (short)
To: goodvibe@geocities.com (Paul Hayden)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:25:41 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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>>A fight broke out right in front of me. Looked like a bunch of bored suburban
>>kids who wanted to build a rep over some bullshit, really. It took about a few
>> 
>> --Monty

And another thing ... let's lose the supremacist/snobbish attitude ... suburban
kids do not have the "build a rep over some bullshit" market cornered ...


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:46:40 1998
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Paul Hayden wrote:
>  If then vibe is screaming money, you may be able
> to fool the gangsters, the assholes, the jerks and all the bad vibes,
> but you can't fool the ravers.


How many True, Vibe Spotting, Ravers you reckon go to those kind of raves?
If the percentage is high. I may start going.




I wonder what I have been missing????

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:56:30 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Northwest Raves" <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>,
  "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:47:17 -0800
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Just a fun topic that came to mind...I remember discussing this once
before on a list and got lots of answers which led to me hearing
some great new stuff! ...What were you guys into before you 
ever listened to techno? (or, alternatively...what else
do you guys groove to besides techno? :)

-a curious kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>
To: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Cc: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>; sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: music and time


>i can agree to this.
>i went from def leppard to the new kidz to vanilla ice to metallica to
>morrissey and the cure and depeche mode and the smiths to 3'11 to juliana
>hatfield to jungle and i'm still changing.
>but just because i like pulling out my CURE and MORRISSEY CD's once in
>awhile to hear a good tune doesn't mean i'm longing for the past :)
>
>we are ever changing.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 07:59:24 1998
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So whats you address and what time should we be there?
I will bring lots of nice videos

	><{{{">   <"}}}><

		foolish fish

ps...richard seed is the name of the doctor wanting to clone 
a human...kind of funny if you think of the nick name
for his first name.

--------------------------------------------

Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> I would just like to say that raves don't have to cost any money
> whatsoever. You could take your home, re-arrange furniture, call a
> friend who was turntables, call all the DJs you are friends with and ask
> them to spin for free, borrow black lights from friends' rooms, borrow
> strobes, borrow blacklight poster, stick in "Minds Eye" into your VCR,
> call friends you know that sell "good" drugs, pick some oranges from
> your yard, fill a huge jug up with cold water, throw pillows in a
> corner, hang tarps and bed sheets all over your house, call about 50 or
> so of your good friends and rave until sun up. Sounds good to me!
> 
> No Bad Vibes, No unwanted people, No bunk drugs, No knives, No guns, No
> money!
> 
> And just because it's at a house doesn't mean it's not a rave!
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 08:12:13 1998
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To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jan 98 21:25:21 EST."
             <Pine.LNX.3.96.980108212050.6789F-100000@linux.announce.com> 
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 00:11:46 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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> there's a sublime song that defines why i love music so persoanlly,
> because..
> 
> "one good thing about music.. when it hits you, you feel no pain...
> so hit me with music... hit me with music now, yeah... hit me with music..
> brutalize me with music"

Hey, that's by Bob Marley, not Sublime! :-)

I personally like the gabber version of that tune that goes "bash my
head with muuusic boom boom boom boom make my ears bleed with music
boom boom boom boom tear my natty epoxy dreadlocks out my baldhead with
music jah, boom boom boom boom cause my intestines to shoot out my ass
w/ music, boom boom boom boom club me like an innocent baby seal with
music now... 

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 08:21:19 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
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It is my personal opinion that this is the understatement of the year.
Usually this list and the scene tends to UNDERREACT and tunr the other
cheek. This time the problem is beign discussed out in the open face up
and this is the first time i have ever seen enough people to get all
butt-hurt over something to really post about it and I like it. It means
that we are finally waking up and paying attention to all the problems
with our scene and trying to fix them.

Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Vlad (Ray Vonie) said:
>        This list has a tendency to OVERREACT when promoters and money issues
> are involved.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 08:26:19 1998
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emenon@kpmg.com wrote:
> 
> okay, we're all sitting here at work, working hard, but we're so tired of the
> cds that we've brought in... any suggestions for web sites that will keep us
> aurally entertained for the afternoon? any help would be appreciated!
> 
> and if you could, reply to me in person (at the above addy) coz i'm off list
> once again.
> 
> cheers! e. :)
Try this site out its kool and from Holland.  All sotrs od tid bits for
your listening pleasure.  Fate......www.vpro.nl/koudzweet or
www.tranzfusion.sprint.com.au.....enjoy!!!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 08:33:55 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:31:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
cc: Northwest Raves <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
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this is a great topic :) 
pre: techno i was into the following 
-- the cure
-- the smiths
-- morrissey
-- erasure
-- depeche mode
-- 3'11
-- the brownies/salmon (local bands)
-- and ALOT OF JULIANA HATFIELD
-- not to forget the doors
-- oh yeah and bob marley :)
BEST OF ALL THE BEASTIE BOYS 

i just listed the people who show up more than once on my list...
and to add onto this survey.. music i CURRENTLY listen to other than
jungle (yes, it's possible folks, i do have variety)
-- ALOT OF THE SAME (mostly 3'11 and beastie boys and juliana hatfield)
plus..
SUBLIME
REEL BIG FISH
MXPX (only a tad)
anything my brother owns that i can steal/borrow without him missing it,
i.e. skapunkbandz

:)

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, .oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:

> Just a fun topic that came to mind...I remember discussing this once
> before on a list and got lots of answers which led to me hearing
> some great new stuff! ...What were you guys into before you 
> ever listened to techno? (or, alternatively...what else
> do you guys groove to besides techno? :)
> 
> -a curious kim
> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> "i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
> the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
> (from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>
> To: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
> Cc: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>; sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 8:28 PM
> Subject: Re: music and time
> 
> 
> >i can agree to this.
> >i went from def leppard to the new kidz to vanilla ice to metallica to
> >morrissey and the cure and depeche mode and the smiths to 3'11 to juliana
> >hatfield to jungle and i'm still changing.
> >but just because i like pulling out my CURE and MORRISSEY CD's once in
> >awhile to hear a good tune doesn't mean i'm longing for the past :)
> >
> >we are ever changing.
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 08:37:05 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
cc: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>,
  San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Toon Town Review and tha VIBE 
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hehehe thanks for the correction :)
gabber.. hey now how come that hasn't exploded up here yet? ;)
xo

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Niels P. Mayer wrote:

> 
> > there's a sublime song that defines why i love music so persoanlly,
> > because..
> > 
> > "one good thing about music.. when it hits you, you feel no pain...
> > so hit me with music... hit me with music now, yeah... hit me with music..
> > brutalize me with music"
> 
> Hey, that's by Bob Marley, not Sublime! :-)
> 
> I personally like the gabber version of that tune that goes "bash my
> head with muuusic boom boom boom boom make my ears bleed with music
> boom boom boom boom tear my natty epoxy dreadlocks out my baldhead with
> music jah, boom boom boom boom cause my intestines to shoot out my ass
> w/ music, boom boom boom boom club me like an innocent baby seal with
> music now... 
> 
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> ==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: 2.6.3
> 
> mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP
> Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1
> X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR
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> M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F
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> =RUx1
> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 08:39:39 1998
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From: "Matt Schwartz" <thorfio@hotmail.com>
To: nw-raves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  groovinkim@connectexpress.com
Subject: Re: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
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Heh...cool question!

I was into OLD SCHOOL FUNK!...Parliment, Stevie Wonder, AWB, etc...
I played Trombone in this PHAT funk band called "Clubberlang." We 
frequented the club scene in San Jose. The music we played in that band 
was some of the best music I've ever heard or played...in fact, if it 
wasn't for the "personal problems" that band had I think we could have 
been huge. 

...Anyone from the south bay ever hear of?

-Matt-


*************************************************************
Stay Cool!

   /////// /// /// /////// //////   ////// /////// ///////   
    ///   /// /// ///  // ///  /   //       ///   ///  //
   ///   /// /// ///  // /////\   //////   ///   ///  //
  ///   /// /// /////// ///   \\ //     /////// ///////   tm.

 Matthew A. Schwartz
-Matt...the other one-

"Anyone can break a promise...it takes a real human being to apologize"
*************************************************************



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 08:43:52 1998
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To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
CC: Northwest Raves <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
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.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
> 
> Just a fun topic that came to mind...I remember discussing this once
> before on a list and got lots of answers which led to me hearing
> some great new stuff! ...What were you guys into before you
> ever listened to techno? (or, alternatively...what else
> do you guys groove to besides techno? :)
> 
> -a curious kim
> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> "i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
> the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
> (from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>
> To: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
> Cc: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>; sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 8:28 PM
> Subject: Re: music and time
> 
> >i can agree to this.
> >i went from def leppard to the new kidz to vanilla ice to metallica to
> >morrissey and the cure and depeche mode and the smiths to 3'11 to juliana
> >hatfield to jungle and i'm still changing.
> >but just because i like pulling out my CURE and MORRISSEY CD's once in
> >awhile to hear a good tune doesn't mean i'm longing for the past :)
> >
> >we are ever changing.
I was into groups like B.A.D., Tangerine Dream, Bryan Eno, KraftWerk,
and William Orbit.  At the moment I still am into these gruops just that
Orbital and BT seem to take up most of the time in my HeadPhones.
"Let Unity Be", Fate

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 08:58:42 1998
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From: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: Sheep on Drugs song ID
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At 10:35 PM -0800 1/8/98, Czefir wrote:
>hi hi,
>
>i was wondering if anyone could identify the name of the song these
>lyrics come from..."sex drive...take a ride in my car"  im almost
>totally sure its from a sheep on drugs song although ive only heard the
>grace jones cover of it.  any help would be cool :)
>
>thanks....
>Megan          Czefir
>
>:) :)

mary jane?
(I have the CD in the other room, but I am feeling like a lazy bastard and
am glued to my computer at this time.)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 09:11:26 1998
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The remarks made by wayne correia regarding Nomad are ludicrous,
slanderous and all false with regards to their content and accusatory
nature. He has stooped below the standards of decency and integrity. It
would be futile to respond to a person like this who has such hatred
inside him. It seems that mr. wannabe has found us to be his victim
again to try and engratiate himself in the eyes of others.

If I were to post certain facts about wayne that I know to be true from
personal experience, I don't think he would be too happy, but it's not
worth it.

Stacey

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 09:30:45 1998
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To: inanna <inanna@wenet.net>
CC: Fumbler151 <Fumbler151@aol.com>, Vortexbrad@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?(please read)
References: <9073cd2e.34b41e4c@aol.com> <34B4254E.5C5204A6@wenet.net>
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inanna wrote:
> 
> Dorena,
> 
> Nice try.  Most ravers have a heart of gold; and really want to give
> others the benefit of the doubt.  You sound like you are doing your best
> to figure out some reason to explain Nomad's latest rape of our rave
> scene.
> 
> I am willing to gamble that the bank didn't cause the rubber-checks.  If
> the bank is responsible for the rubber checks, then it is still a shame
> on Tom and Stacey to not perform their business functions in a timely
> and professional manner.
> 
> I think the silence created by their non-participation in this very
> thread is indicative of how they feel about you and your wondering about
> why people were not paid.  I am sure they are off confidentially
> counting their money and scheming for their next attempt to steal more
> of you kiddies cash.  It is so easy for them to take your money.  Like
> taking candy from a raver....
> 
> Diana Greer
> I am not judging you as stupid.  I got burned by them too, and I even
> knew better at the time, but I bought a ticket anyway...

Diana,

I would like to know exactly how you got burned by us. Maybe we can
clear this up.

Stacey @ Nomad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 09:32:41 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, thenomad@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: THEdisgusting WAYNE CORREIA
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Stacey and Tom and anyone else who calls themselves Nomad

 You suck dirt.




>The remarks made by wayne correia regarding Nomad are ludicrous,
>slanderous and all false with regards to their content and accusatory
>nature. 

 Prove it dirtbag.



>He has stooped below the standards of decency and integrity.

 Even if he had he would still need a parachute to reach your depths.

> It
>would be futile to respond to a person like this


 Especially since you don't have a leg to stand on.


> It seems that mr. wannabe 

 I don't think Wayne wants to be lying, thieving scum like yourselves.


>If I were to post certain facts about wayne that I know to be true from
>personal experience, I don't think he would be too happy, but it's not
>worth it.

 Lots of us have skeletons. So what? At least our buisness ethics don't 
suck as bad as Nomad's

 Pay your bills and shut up if you want any repect.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 09:58:47 1998
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From: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>
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Actually maybe there are a few things some of you would like to know.
Since acquiring the 2nd & Jackson location, there is a rather large
financial committment to the space and renting it to others who want to
produce something creative whether it be an art show or a dance does
help to support the space.

 There have been many times when others have rented the facility and
were unable to meet their financial obligations to us. At other times
damages occured from their production crews and yet there was no money
to take care of it. In a recent incident, a sound company drove through
the roll up door and damaged it. The repair bill was almost $700. The
promoter didn't have the funds to pay it. But we dealt with it and paid
it ourselves. At the recent Crash Worship show, one of their patrons
ripped the alarm system off the wall. That bill totalled almost $300. We
have been left many times to deal with these issues.

 Recently, we had several promoters who were unable to meet their
financial commitments to the space. On a business level this jeapordized
our cash flow and affected the amount of funds availalble for the new
year. We can't make these people pay, nor will we speak badly about them
because we know what they are going through and what they have to deal
with. This scene is self supportive in many ways and it is not easy.

I am not justifying anything. I am merely stating some facts.  

Stacey @ Nomad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 10:05:22 1998
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To: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Nomad Interactive: No Pay?(please read)
References: holmannh@wellsfargo.com        "Re: Nomad Interactive: No
	 Pay?(please read)" (Jan  7,  5:29pm)
	 <199801080126.RAA25840@unixm2.WellsFargo.Com> <v0400390db0da0e6e69a1@[209.104.216.103]>
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Wayne wrote:
> 
> At 7:42 PM -0800 1/7/98, Fred Heutte wrote:
> >Banks have different rules for personal and business accounts also.
> >As sister kitty noted, cash deposits are immediately available for
> >withdrawal in any event.
> >
> >phred
> 
> If they took in cash at the door (and it's inevitable that they did) and
> they were holding all this cash (they must have been) then why did they pay
> by check?
> 
> I postulate that is could have been willful fraud, plain and simple. If
> that's the case, I wonder if this party was indeed their last great hurrah
> and they did in fact flee the state with their ill-gotten gains? From their
> perspective, this was their own version of "Fuck you San Francisco."
> 
> I suggest every person who's holding a rubber check from Nomad contact the
> Alameda County District Attorney's Office immediately as passing that many
> bad checks to that many people all at the same time smells like
> (criminally) intentful fraud, and they'd probably prosecure the case.
> Sorry to disappoint you Wayne, but there are no rubber checks! Crawl back into your hole.
> While you're doing that, you should also suggest that they get their
> permits pulled for creating an unsafe events at their space (6 security vs.
> the 20 mandated by their permits) as well as file complaints with the
> better business bureau, the Oakland PD, Oakland Chamber Of Commerce, and
> the city planning commission.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 10:08:15 1998
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:26:53 -0800
From: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>
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To: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
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Josh Damon Williams wrote:
> 
> here's the deal as i see. you go into business, you're taking a gamble.
> to try to keep the odds in your favor and protect your investment, you
> do EVERYTHING you can in the way of preparation. it's all about being
> professional. example; johnny fiasco and the taxi debacle... it's NYE,
> everyone in the bay is vying for cab time... you know you have to get
> someone from point A to point B on time... don't wait to the last
> fucking minute then cry because you can't pull it together... you PLAN
> ahead to have a cronie make the pickup.
> There was someone sceduled to pick him up, but he never made it there in time.
> worried about not making enough cash to cover your ass at wrap time?
> then make sure you have the money before you open your doors.  that way
> you won't piss anybody off by making them deal with your flakiness.
> 
> you say you're good people, fine, that and a buck gets you coffee. be
> good people AND professional promoters. then start throwing parties. if
> the rest of the world ran way you people operate we'd all be fucked on a
> regular basis instead of just when we try to have fun....
> 
> trying to explain away your problems is a clear indication that, in this
> case, you were not prepared to deal with the ball you started rolling.
> in my experience...most people who work this way get served w/ a pink
> slip.
> 
> in a hundred years, no one will care, but at the moment i'd say nomad,
> et. al. have some soul searching to do about their future as promoters
> and how to attone.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 14:35:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:38:17 -0800
To: thenomad@pacbell.net
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: THEdisgusting WAYNE CORREIA
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 1:30 AM -0800 12/13/97, thenomad wrote:
>The remarks made by wayne correia regarding Nomad are ludicrous,
>slanderous and all false with regards to their content and accusatory
>nature. He has stooped below the standards of decency and integrity. It
>would be futile to respond to a person like this who has such hatred
>inside him. It seems that mr. wannabe has found us to be his victim
>again to try and engratiate himself in the eyes of others.
>
>If I were to post certain facts about wayne that I know to be true from
>personal experience, I don't think he would be too happy, but it's not
>worth it.
>
>Stacey

And with all of your counter accusations and *hidden* facts, you have
*still* not explained yourselves.  Let me help by asking two questions:

-Will you pay the people you supposedly owe money?
-When will you pay the people you supposedly owe money to?

Can you answer these questions please.

Thanks,
John

"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 16:46:20 1998
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THe song is called Motorbike.
It Iz available either on a single or the full length album. The whole
thing is a bit of fun.

k Boom

Czefir wrote:

> hi hi,
>
> i was wondering if anyone could identify the name of the song these
> lyrics come from..."sex drive...take a ride in my car"  im almost
> totally sure its from a sheep on drugs song although ive only heard the
> grace jones cover of it.  any help would be cool :)
>
> thanks....
> Megan          Czefir
>
> :) :)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 16:54:07 1998
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CC: Northwest Raves <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
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On the electronic music front;

Claus Schultz
Kraftwerk
Throbbing Gristle(then later Psychic TV)
Embarassingly enough - Depeche Mode
Brian Eno
Wendy/Walter Carlos-for those authentic analog moments
Einsturzende Neubauten
Front 242
Front Line Assembly

On the Rock end of the Spectrum

The Cure
The Smiths
The The
The Birthday Party
Bauhaus


And of course
The Beatles
The Doors
and
The Who



.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:

> Just a fun topic that came to mind...I remember discussing this once
> before on a list and got lots of answers which led to me hearing
> some great new stuff! ...What were you guys into before you
> ever listened to techno? (or, alternatively...what else
> do you guys groove to besides techno? :)
>
> -a curious kim
> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> "i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
> the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
> (from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>
> To: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
> Cc: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>; sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 8:28 PM
> Subject: Re: music and time
>
> >i can agree to this.
> >i went from def leppard to the new kidz to vanilla ice to metallica to
> >morrissey and the cure and depeche mode and the smiths to 3'11 to juliana
> >hatfield to jungle and i'm still changing.
> >but just because i like pulling out my CURE and MORRISSEY CD's once in
> >awhile to hear a good tune doesn't mean i'm longing for the past :)
> >
> >we are ever changing.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 16:57:30 1998
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thenomad wrote:

> The remarks made by wayne correia regarding Nomad are ludicrous,
> slanderous and all false with regards to their content and accusatory
> nature. He has stooped below the standards of decency and integrity. It
> would be futile to respond to a person like this who has such hatred
> inside him.

It would seem that you just have responded to his allegations, if only to
question his integrity. Although I'm no expert and certainly not free from
sin.

kBoom


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 17:05:25 1998
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In a message dated 1/9/98 2:31:06 AM, you wrote:

<<Diana,

I would like to know exactly how you got burned by us. Maybe we can
clear this up.

Stacey @ Nomad>>

*AHEM* we ALL got burned by Nomad, all the ravers who either bought presales
and waited in line PAST midnight, *hoping* to get in, AND the ravers who paid
full price to see a half-completed, disorganized effort

natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 17:10:42 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:03:32 -0800 (PST)
From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
To: a_sid_tst@hotmail.com, ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
Cc: Northwest Raves <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Well for me on the Elektronik front:
Kraftwerk (when I use to pop, you guys remember
"poping")
Egyptian lover
old school elctro DJ traxxs cut it up def etc..
90's High energy/Modern (you know the live 105 trend)
early stuff like "hip house" the KLF, Snap etc..

Now a days:

KBAY
MIX 106.5
KARA 100.3
KBLX 102.9
Howard Stern 98.5
"Smooth easy listening"

Macadio







---k bOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> On the electronic music front;
> 
> Claus Schultz
> Kraftwerk
> Throbbing Gristle(then later Psychic TV)
> Embarassingly enough - Depeche Mode
> Brian Eno
> Wendy/Walter Carlos-for those authentic analog
moments
> Einsturzende Neubauten
> Front 242
> Front Line Assembly
> 
> On the Rock end of the Spectrum
> 
> The Cure
> The Smiths
> The The
> The Birthday Party
> Bauhaus
> 
> 
> And of course
> The Beatles
> The Doors
> and
> The Who
> 
> 
> 
> .oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
> 
> > Just a fun topic that came to mind...I remember
discussing this once
> > before on a list and got lots of answers which
led to me hearing
> > some great new stuff! ...What were you guys into
before you
> > ever listened to techno? (or,
alternatively...what else
> > do you guys groove to besides techno? :)
> >
> > -a curious kim
> > .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> > "i married the funk, so i could never be
alone...i got
> > the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
> > (from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
> >
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> > seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ
#2388692
> > http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> > Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>
> > To: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
> > Cc: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>; sfraves
<sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> > Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 8:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: music and time
> >
> > >i can agree to this.
> > >i went from def leppard to the new kidz to
vanilla ice to metallica to
> > >morrissey and the cure and depeche mode and the
smiths to 3'11 to juliana
> > >hatfield to jungle and i'm still changing.
> > >but just because i like pulling out my CURE and
MORRISSEY CD's once in
> > >awhile to hear a good tune doesn't mean i'm
longing for the past :)
> > >
> > >we are ever changing.
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 17:11:31 1998
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From: "Mark Carey" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:11:46 -0800
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I am new to this list but I have been reading the posts for a few weeks now
so here go's my first post:

I started out listen ing to stuff like:
mc hammer
vanilla ice
whatever was on x100 (99.7FMbefore it became KFRC, again)

Then I listened to :
Alice Cooper, Metallica, G n R, Slayer, Cro-Magnons, DEath, Gwar

Then I listened To:
Primus, Nirvana, Mighty Might boss Tones, Dave Mathews Band, Atilla and Dave
Project,
Pink Floyd, Freedom Rock, John Lennon

For The Past Two Years Now: I have slowly but surely migrated over to
Trance, Funk and anything with a good beat.

One DJ that made an impression on me in the past year is Essence,
I was at Home Base at some buttie ass party I can't even remember the name
when out of nowhere this melody  started spilling out of the speakers to my
auditory delight. Well what could I do but skakin to da groove. It was like
my body started moving on instinct, it new good beat with out me even havin
to hear it. That melody start to evolve into a tight ass beat ( I not
familiar enough with the terms to describe any better but trust me it was
bomb) For one hour that room changed and became the best place in the world.
I didn't know anybody, and I didn't care, you could feel the energy of the
whole room skyrocket, it was awesome. If anybody has any mixes with this DJ
I would much want to get a copy.
Thanx  for puttin up wit me.

Mark <><

Carpe Cava- "Sieze the Guinea Pig"
-----Original Message-----
From: .oOo.oOo.oOo. <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: Northwest Raves <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>; sfraves
<sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 11:56 PM
Subject: Before techno? was: Re: music and time


>Just a fun topic that came to mind...I remember discussing this once
>before on a list and got lots of answers which led to me hearing
>some great new stuff! ...What were you guys into before you
>ever listened to techno? (or, alternatively...what else
>do you guys groove to besides techno? :)
>
>-a curious kim
>.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
>the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
>(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>
>To: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
>Cc: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>; sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 8:28 PM
>Subject: Re: music and time
>
>
>>i can agree to this.
>>i went from def leppard to the new kidz to vanilla ice to metallica to
>>morrissey and the cure and depeche mode and the smiths to 3'11 to juliana
>>hatfield to jungle and i'm still changing.
>>but just because i like pulling out my CURE and MORRISSEY CD's once in
>>awhile to hear a good tune doesn't mean i'm longing for the past :)
>>
>>we are ever changing.
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 17:27:16 1998
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From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: k bOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com>
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  Northwest Raves <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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 some of my Favs. on the electronic (?) possibly more like weird front
are:
The Tear Garden
Doubting Thomas
Skinny Puppy (industrial)
Legendary Pink Dots
Hilt
Clock DVA
                               -Reagan

              P.s.- does anyone out there like: 1)Faith & the Muse
   2)Malign or 3) Strange Boutique and know where to find their music??

	      P.S- Hey, Depeche Mode is cool!



On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, k bOOM wrote:

> On the electronic music front;
> 
> Claus Schultz
> Kraftwerk
> Throbbing Gristle(then later Psychic TV)
> Embarassingly enough - Depeche Mode
> Brian Eno
> Wendy/Walter Carlos-for those authentic analog moments
> Einsturzende Neubauten
> Front 242
> Front Line Assembly
> 
> On the Rock end of the Spectrum
> 
> The Cure
> The Smiths
> The The
> The Birthday Party
> Bauhaus
> 
> 
> And of course
> The Beatles
> The Doors
> and
> The Who
> 
> 
> 
> .oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
> 
> > Just a fun topic that came to mind...I remember discussing this once
> > before on a list and got lots of answers which led to me hearing
> > some great new stuff! ...What were you guys into before you
> > ever listened to techno? (or, alternatively...what else
> > do you guys groove to besides techno? :)
> >
> > -a curious kim
> > .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> > "i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
> > the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
> > (from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
> > http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> > seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> > http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> > Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>
> > To: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
> > Cc: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>; sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> > Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 8:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: music and time
> >
> > >i can agree to this.
> > >i went from def leppard to the new kidz to vanilla ice to metallica to
> > >morrissey and the cure and depeche mode and the smiths to 3'11 to juliana
> > >hatfield to jungle and i'm still changing.
> > >but just because i like pulling out my CURE and MORRISSEY CD's once in
> > >awhile to hear a good tune doesn't mean i'm longing for the past :)
> > >
> > >we are ever changing.
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 17:31:26 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
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Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:30:38 -0800
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You know..

 I have to admit, I too sometimes keep whining and whining about the same
old shit... But even I being the big cry baby I am, I am still able to let
things pass. Like you know what's up, your friends know what's up.

 I don't understand why someone would call their Tribe Nomad for one.
But, is it really right to keep going around bashing on someones business.
It's probably not a wrong thing to do. All you bashers might want to know,
when you go around talking shit about someone or something, you are actually
PROMOTING them.. Yep..
 Take me for instance. If I didn't have as many people running around
telling this guy and that person that "i am an asshole".... No one would
recognize me. But thanks to all these people going around talking shit about
me, I am probably the most recognized person in the scene think you.

 I myself, now want to goto the next Nomad ravE...JUST to see if I will get
ripped off or not. And that means $20 more dollars in Nomads pocket. Thanks
to you guys.. =]:..

 I personally like the "back seat driver" approach.. SHUTUP BACK THEIR!

Hmm... Maybe I should of read this whole thread first.. I just felt like
saying something..

ACID BREAKS tomorrow.. !!!  DJ Carlos, phat Jungle beats. People looking at
me like they just saw a ghost..

Frickin Legend.. (someone will quote that tomorrow night)//

 Yep.. Can't wait..
Lara!! Why you no go??  =[

=]:..
Jeff


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 17:34:54 1998
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Subject: Re: I'll see you at Happy Kids :o)
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Hey Hey.... enough of me biting my tongue on the topic of promoters...
when we all know the truth... it just upsets us when we're forced to focus
on it....  it's all BS... money making... otherwise everyone would be
underground... trully underground..... sigh... wish I went to
CLOUDFACTORY.

But on a better note...  I and a few other kids are going to
be at Happy Kids.... so look for us. I think I'll be wearing black and a
multi-colored soccer jersey.... and my head will be freshly buzzed.....
tall, skinny, dark and handsome.. hehe. ;)

Love..... positivity.... community...... and spirituality... eternal.

.Byron(i).

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, CheerioHN wrote:

> Hey there! 
> Most of you i havn't seen in way to long...and some even longer, well i hope
> to be lucky enuf to see you all at Happy Kids on saturday nite. I'll be the
> girl in the vest(jus fer you unkl noah!!) and a huge smile dancing her butt
> off  :o) Is there a meeting spot? Besides in front during UnkleNoahs set?
> well mad love to you all...see ya soon!!! 
> JiL :o)
> p.s. Ms.K1dd, i'll see you there rite?
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 17:36:53 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:34:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: (BSP) HAPPY KIDS
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hey kids it's finally here, our one-year celebration!
time to dance our asses off once again with the people we all love the
most -- each other.
january 10th.. tomorrow night.. 
(415)750-3020

pre-sales are $12 @ Solid Grooves in SJ, F-8 in SF and Primal in Berkeley.
tickets are $15 before 10pm.

and most importantly, you have to know the party goes from 8pm-4am
SO COME EARLY AND PLAN YOUR NIGHT ACCORDLINGLY
i.e. sober rides, if you take bart it doesn't open til 6am there's a 2
hour gap there..

we don't want any kidz wandering around early morning in the city:)
OH and this party is "bust proof"... aka permitted, which is why it ends
at 4am.
love you kids and see you all out!!
xo
lara

9:30 am on my 4th tripleshot cafe mocha.. must be illegal to drink this
much caffiene ;)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 17:47:22 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:47:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: RE: Before techno?
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Before I listened to "techno" I was listening to late 50's and early 60's 
groove tunes, from artists like Booker T. and the MG's and The Bar-Kays 
and folks like that... stuff that get's your booty wigglin' and your head 
bobbin.  I was also listening to early electronic music from folks like 
Kraftwerk, and the Dick Hymen Moog albums and stuff like that.  Every now 
and then I'd dig out an old trip record from the Hippy Days like the 
United States of America and stuff like that.  There was also a healthy 
dose of 80's synth-pop and rap as well.

It's kind of funny when I look back on it because I find all of these 
influences in the "funky breaks" techno that I listen to and spin now. :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:01:13 1998
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:05:40 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Bruce E <bruce@mindmedia.com>
Subject: Digital Be-In -- Friends of Island Foundation Speak
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Tonight -- Friday January 9th in San Francisco at 
1015 Folsom will be the10th Annual Digital Be-In. 
This year it will include a rave
as part of it's multidimensional structure. Island Foundation
is proud to spotlight two of the speakers. Both will be speaking
in the slot between 9PM and 9:30PM.
Mark Ameba - on rave culture and the Be-In ideal.
John Beresford - on "Theories on the War on Drugs"

Both of these men have written for Island Views and
Psychedelic Island Views. Mark has done Tribal Future
and John Bersford has written on two of his projects, 
"The Psychedelic Museum" and his "LSD Prisoners Project."
Mark is inspiring at integrating the rave and psychedelic scene.
John's personal commitment to prisoner work is amazing. He
makes personal visits and keeps up correspondence with several
LSD prisoners and has been personally responsible for changes in the
carrier weight law.

I hope that all of you will turn out to see them speak.
Bruce Eisner
Island Foundation
http://www.island.org




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:07:45 1998
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From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Wayne" <wayne@club.net>
Cc: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: PLUR bashing (was promoter bashing)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:07:57 -0800
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I agree with the point you were trying to make just not the way you made it.
If someone claims to be something, do take what they say at face value and
believe them or do you look at their actions and if their actions jive with
their words, that's when you believe them. Alot of people go around calling
themselves Christians and don't even know what that means. I am not trying
to preach just asking you not to stereo type us. If that was not your intent
then ignore this thank you.

Mark <><

PS I like to dance and have a good time like everybody else, I just make
sure that I do the right thing and let nothing but love overflow from my
heart, simple and pure.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: PLUR bashing (was promoter bashing)



>I have become so tired of people beating each other over the head with the
>four pillars of PLUR the same way that christians have historically beat
>entire continents of unwitting 'converts' (i.e. convert or we'll kill you.)
>over the head with the bible.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:08:57 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing/not
In-Reply-To: <349260BC.7CB2@pacbell.net>
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On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, thenomad wrote:

> Actually maybe there are a few things some of you would like to know.

Not really. Your poor/unfortunate/inept business dealings really don't
answer the question of why you wrote bad checks to one or more of the
folks that worked for you.

[Another tale of woe deleted]

> I am not justifying anything. I am merely stating some facts.  

Actually it sounds more like a cry for pity. Now, can you answer the
question?




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:40:08 1998
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Before Techno....  Hmm... I was listening to 80s whiney brit pop (still
do), alternative, and others...  I started listening to techno when I was
in 8th grade... when you had the electronic dance music playing on KWOD
106.5 after midnight.... I remember using the login name "Tekno" and no
one knew what it meant....  

House music is so beautiful. It's definately my favorite. The more deep
and soulful the better... funky... ketchy tunes... this is a perfect
example:

http://www.hotwired.com/betalounge/stuff/alton.ram

(Real audio)

That set is definately one of my favorites... Alton Miller is awesome.

Byroni

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Noah Apodaca wrote:

> 
> 
> Before I listened to "techno" I was listening to late 50's and early 60's 
> groove tunes, from artists like Booker T. and the MG's and The Bar-Kays 
> and folks like that... stuff that get's your booty wigglin' and your head 
> bobbin.  I was also listening to early electronic music from folks like 
> Kraftwerk, and the Dick Hymen Moog albums and stuff like that.  Every now 
> and then I'd dig out an old trip record from the Hippy Days like the 
> United States of America and stuff like that.  There was also a healthy 
> dose of 80's synth-pop and rap as well.
> 
> It's kind of funny when I look back on it because I find all of these 
> influences in the "funky breaks" techno that I listen to and spin now. :)
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:42:22 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:41:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
Subject: Name that tune
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
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First of all, hello to anybody who might remember me from my previous
incarnation on the list - I'm back!

My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the day:
Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark jungle song with this
sample:
 "I like the bass ...
   I like the bass that goes BOOM"

Thanks!
Matt.





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:43:16 1998
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Subject: ignore please if this even is fucking working piece o shit 
    friggin computer
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yo!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:46:53 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
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I personally have never herad it,  and I'm as always no help to you, 
however, I really liked the origonal (from what it sounds like)  
"We like the cars, The cars that go BOOM...
With Tigra, and Bunny cuz we like the BOOM"  -Salt'n Pepa I believe
My ass is shakin' now FellaZ!!! :P
Later,
Danny

>From sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri Jan  9 
10:42:27 1998
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>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:41:53 -0800 (PST)
>From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Name that tune
>To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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>
>First of all, hello to anybody who might remember me from my previous
>incarnation on the list - I'm back!
>
>My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the day:
>Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark jungle song with this
>sample:
> "I like the bass ...
>   I like the bass that goes BOOM"
>
>Thanks!
>Matt.
>
>
>
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:55:39 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:53:29 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: bABy HueY <poobear@hotmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Name that tune
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hahahahahaha
i know what you're talkin about Danny, i always start singin that song and
people in my car look at me like "what the FUCK are you singing?"
about that jungle track.. it's on my friends' mixtape and i'll ask him
which track it is..
xo
lara;)


On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, bABy HueY wrote:

> I personally have never herad it,  and I'm as always no help to you, 
> however, I really liked the origonal (from what it sounds like)  
> "We like the cars, The cars that go BOOM...
> With Tigra, and Bunny cuz we like the BOOM"  -Salt'n Pepa I believe
> My ass is shakin' now FellaZ!!! :P
> Later,
> Danny
> 
> >From sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri Jan  9 
> 10:42:27 1998
> >Received: (qmail 17579 invoked by uid 6000); 9 Jan 1998 18:42:20 -0000
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> >Received: from [192.86.155.91] by send1a; Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:41:53 PST
> >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:41:53 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Name that tune
> >To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
> >Precedence: bulk
> >
> >First of all, hello to anybody who might remember me from my previous
> >incarnation on the list - I'm back!
> >
> >My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the day:
> >Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark jungle song with this
> >sample:
> > "I like the bass ...
> >   I like the bass that goes BOOM"
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Matt.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 18:59:14 1998
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From: "AnonEmuss Raver" <anonemuss98@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: In regards to the Nomad Incident: put an end to these crappy 
    parties!
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All the bitching that you could possibly post to sfraves will never stop 
bad producers from throwing bad parties. The reason is, is that not 
everyone reads sf-raves. Only a small 'lil chunk of our raving community 
even knows about this whole situation. If the public was informed of 
what was going on, then Nomad, or any other crew that didn't have their 
act together, would have a 'lil more of a problem throwing parties. They 
wouldn't have any supporters or attendees.
Perhaps this is the reason Nomad just doesn't give a shit. Why should 
they even worry about justifying what they did to this list? It's only 
500 people out of thousands.

Something to think about.

anonEmuss


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:04:51 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Who's going to digital be in?
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:05:04 -0800
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I am hoping to get out to the digital be in tonight, and I was wondering if
there was anybody out there who plans on going. I am fairly new to the scene
(6 mo.) and I want to meet some new peeps to hang out wit that actually like
the same kind of music I do and like dancing. Most folks I know are into
Country line dancing and I can stand only so much Country.

Mark <><

"So long Mary-Anne,
It's time we began
To laugh and cry,
And Cry and laugh
about it all again."
    - Leonard Cohen


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:09:03 1998
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Subject: eklektic?
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did anyone go to eklektic last night?

what to find out the name of the last track that was played twice right at
the end, before the lights went on...

thanks in advance!
megan


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:15:58 1998
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From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: RE: Before Techno
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What was the inception of techno?  Before I listened to
drum-n-bass/house/world beat  I listened to club and old techno (i.e.
Apotheosis, Eon, 808 state).  But I also listened to industrial a lot (not
techno??) and gothic which also has some computerization.  Before that I
listened to 80's "progressive" (Cocteau Twins, Depeche Mode, New Order)
which was pretty computerized too.  I don't remember much music before that,
except classic rock which holds a lot of my childhood memories.

to me, it's all kind of fuzzy where techno began ....

what do you think?

Terri


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:16:32 1998
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Hey Mook,

I might be going to that tonight if I don't go to a party my buddy
(coworker) is having. That's going ot be really good. Look out for a buddy
of mine's group, ETI. They are really good. "20 Minutes of Disco glory" on
Doc Martin's MiX CD "Unlock your mind" is by them.

If I go I'll be in the main room at the front wearing a white shirt... and
a black baseball hat with a B on it.

Byroni

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Mook wrote:

> I am hoping to get out to the digital be in tonight, and I was wondering if
> there was anybody out there who plans on going. I am fairly new to the scene
> (6 mo.) and I want to meet some new peeps to hang out wit that actually like
> the same kind of music I do and like dancing. Most folks I know are into
> Country line dancing and I can stand only so much Country.
> 
> Mark <><
> 
> "So long Mary-Anne,
> It's time we began
> To laugh and cry,
> And Cry and laugh
> about it all again."
>     - Leonard Cohen
> 
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:19:53 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:17:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: In regards to the Nomad Incident: put an end to these crappy     parties!
To: AnonEmuss Raver <anonemuss98@hotmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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---AnonEmuss Raver <anonemuss98@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> All the bitching that you could possibly post to
sfraves will never stop 
> bad producers from throwing bad parties. The reason 

Its not bitching, its the truth. The fact that we speak
our minds and don't sit idly by, while someone tries
to 
fuck us, stems from the fact that we are a family of
sorts. We know how much time and energy it takes to be
a sound tech, a DJ, or a lighting tech. We understand
that you deserve what you are promised for all the work
put forth.


>is, is that not 
> everyone reads sf-raves. Only a small 'lil chunk of
>our raving community 
> even knows about this whole situation. If the
public was informed of 
> what was going on, then Nomad, or any other crew
that didn't have their 
> act together, would have a 'lil more of a problem
>throwing parties. They 

Think of the 500 or more folks on this list and then
the 10 or 20 friends that they tell of the b.s.
injustice and you have 10,000 or more folks, is
it sinking in now?

> wouldn't have any supporters or attendees.
> Perhaps this is the reason Nomad just doesn't give
a >shit. Why should 
> they even worry about justifying what they did to
>this list? It's only 
> 500 people out of thousands.

The bottom line is this is not the first time or the
second that Nomad has fucked us as a group and we are
tired of giving numerous chances. We want answers as a 
group - as a family. 


> Something to think about.


LL


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:29:15 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Who's going to digital be in?
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---Mook <mcarey@triad.com> wrote:

> Most folks I know are into
> Country line dancing and I can stand only so much
>Country.
> 


Mark - your scaring me - thats the C' word. Know hold
out your hand *tssh* you get a slap for mentioning
******* line danc--- I won't even call it dancing.
I never understood why everyone would want to dance
exactly the same as the person next to you. Where is
the improvisation, where is the soul - now back to 
our regularly scheduled programing

LL


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:31:35 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:24:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Name that tune
To: bABy HueY <poobear@hotmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Cc: lara@vibe.org
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Tooooo scary hehehe its by uhhh Le Trim but I don't
know that someone just told me I swear.... ;)

LL





---bABy HueY <poobear@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I personally have never herad it,  and I'm as
always no help to you, 
> however, I really liked the origonal (from what it
sounds like)  
> "We like the cars, The cars that go BOOM...
> With Tigra, and Bunny cuz we like the BOOM" 
-Salt'n Pepa I believe
> My ass is shakin' now FellaZ!!! :P
> Later,
> Danny
> 
> >From
sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri
Jan  9 
> 10:42:27 1998
> >Received: (qmail 17579 invoked by uid 6000); 9 Jan
1998 18:42:20 -0000
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Jan 1998 18:42:19 -0000
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> >  by taz.hyperreal.org with SMTP; 9 Jan 1998
18:42:19 -0000
> >Message-ID:
<19980109184153.10254.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>
> >Received: from [192.86.155.91] by send1a; Fri, 09
Jan 1998 10:41:53 PST
> >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:41:53 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Name that tune
> >To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
> >Precedence: bulk
> >
> >First of all, hello to anybody who might remember
me from my previous
> >incarnation on the list - I'm back!
> >
> >My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the
day:
> >Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark
jungle song with this
> >sample:
> > "I like the bass ...
> >   I like the bass that goes BOOM"
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Matt.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:36:49 1998
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From: "AnonEmuss Raver" <anonemuss98@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, lucke@rocketmail.com
Subject: Re: In regards to the Nomad Incident: put an end to these 
    crappy parties!
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>---AnonEmuss Raver <anonemuss98@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> All the bitching that you could possibly post to
>sfraves will never stop 
>> bad producers from throwing bad parties. The reason 
>
>Its not bitching, its the truth. The fact that we speak
>our minds and don't sit idly by, while someone tries
>to 
>fuck us, stems from the fact that we are a family of
>sorts. We know how much time and energy it takes to be
>a sound tech, a DJ, or a lighting tech. We understand
>that you deserve what you are promised for all the work
>put forth.
>

sorry, I just said bitching cause we are bitching, and hell.... I'm 
bitching too! I hate the fact that promoters get away with this crap, 
and that's why I want it to stop! I've read all the posts from the 
begining and it's pretty damn obvious that Nomad is "CRAP!" as someone 
put it. I've been to some of their parties, and I know that they were 
CRAP! I will never go again. I also don't want others to have to think, 
"hey, this is as good as it gets? raves suck!"

>
>>is, is that not 
>> everyone reads sf-raves. Only a small 'lil chunk of
>>our raving community 
>> even knows about this whole situation. If the
>public was informed of 
>> what was going on, then Nomad, or any other crew
>that didn't have their 
>> act together, would have a 'lil more of a problem
>>throwing parties. They 
>
>Think of the 500 or more folks on this list and then
>the 10 or 20 friends that they tell of the b.s.
>injustice and you have 10,000 or more folks, is
>it sinking in now?

I really don't think it works out that way, I know it does to some 
extent, but I really doubt it'll reach anywhere near 10,000 people.


>
>> wouldn't have any supporters or attendees.
>> Perhaps this is the reason Nomad just doesn't give
>a >shit. Why should 
>> they even worry about justifying what they did to
>>this list? It's only 
>> 500 people out of thousands.
>
>The bottom line is this is not the first time or the
>second that Nomad has fucked us as a group and we are
>tired of giving numerous chances. We want answers as a 
>group - as a family. 
>

they've never really given any clear answers in the past, I doubt 
they'll start now. I say we kill 'em! =)

>
>> Something to think about.
>
>
>LL
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:49:06 1998
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:50:52 -0800
From: "Sounds Good!" <hernancz@sirius.com>
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To: AnonEmuss Raver <anonemuss98@hotmail.com>
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	    crappy parties!
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AnonEmuss Raver wrote:

>  I say we kill 'em! =)
> >> Something to think about.

 The best thing about the "promoter bashing" is future promoters are reading this. Not 
just present day ravers/promoters. Hopefully future promoter will say Oh No I Wont Rip 
Off The Scene, remember NOMAD? you dont? Well they ripped everyone off and despite 
thier gangland connections thier warehouse burned down and they ended up in the bay.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:50:39 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:54:15 -0800 (PST)
From: tabitha hanrion <bewitched@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Who's going to digital be in?
To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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---*byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com> wrote:
> Look out for a buddy
> of mine's group, ETI. They are really good. "20 Minutes of Disco
glory" on
> Doc Martin's MiX CD "Unlock your mind" is by them.



YEAY!!!  That's the one with  Garth!  It really is incredible.
Impossible to listen to it without smiling and bouncing around a bit. 
Even at work.....


 "Like it, Like it, Like it."

Tabitha




















From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:52:34 1998
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Thanks to all the headz who rolled out last night for the 23rd week of
Eklektic.  Talented DJ's, Noel & Sage kicked some major drum n' bass ass,
and UFO's new track with West Side Chemical was f*@cking brilliant!  Check
it out.

I hope you all join us next week for a trip with Z-Trip, Radar and Emile,
The Bombshelter DJ's from Phoenix Arizona.  They will be playing a few
venues that week, but ours is first on their stop and the least expensive!
Dig it?

dmarie, one of the E3.

Peace & Respect

eklektic
thursday's
kate o'briens
$5    21+
415.332.5800 X 247




me...dmarie


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 19:55:37 1998
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From: spazzcadet <spazzcadet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Name that tune
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deacon- labrinths

you crazy junglist!!!!!!!!!!
spazzcadet

---Matthew Kodama  wrote:
>
> First of all, hello to anybody who might remember me from my previous
> incarnation on the list - I'm back!
> 
> My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the day:
> Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark jungle song with this
> sample:
>  "I like the bass ...
>    I like the bass that goes BOOM"
> 
> Thanks!
> Matt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 20:03:35 1998
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Thanks to all the headz who rolled out last night for the 23rd week of
Eklektic.  Talented DJ's, Noel & Sage kicked some major drum n' bass ass,
and UFO's new track with West Side Chemical was f*@cking brilliant!  Check
it out.

I hope you all join us next week for a trip with Z-Trip, Radar and Emile,
The Bombshelter DJ's from Phoenix Arizona.  They will be playing a few
venues that week, but ours is first on their stop and the least expensive!
Dig it?

dmarie, one of the E3.

Peace & Respect

eklektic
thursday's
kate o'briens
$5    21+
415.332.5800 X 247




me...dmarie


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 20:09:27 1998
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From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Name that tune
To: bABy HueY <poobear@hotmail.com>
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No way man, that's L'Trimm, "Cars With Tha Boom"
I've still got that shit on vinyl somwhere!!!  Man-o-man I wish I had 
time to go through all the old old rekkids so I could bring that one to HK!!

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, bABy HueY wrote:

> I personally have never herad it,  and I'm as always no help to you, 
> however, I really liked the origonal (from what it sounds like)  
> "We like the cars, The cars that go BOOM...
> With Tigra, and Bunny cuz we like the BOOM"  -Salt'n Pepa I believe
> My ass is shakin' now FellaZ!!! :P
> Later,
> Danny
> 
> >From sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri Jan  9 
> 10:42:27 1998
> >Received: (qmail 17579 invoked by uid 6000); 9 Jan 1998 18:42:20 -0000
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> >Received: from [192.86.155.91] by send1a; Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:41:53 PST
> >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:41:53 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Name that tune
> >To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
> >Precedence: bulk
> >
> >First of all, hello to anybody who might remember me from my previous
> >incarnation on the list - I'm back!
> >
> >My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the day:
> >Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark jungle song with this
> >sample:
> > "I like the bass ...
> >   I like the bass that goes BOOM"
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Matt.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 20:26:55 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:19:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
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What were you guys into before you 
> ever listened to techno? (or, alternatively...what else
> do you guys groove to besides techno? :)
> 
> -a curious kim

jeeze, this could take hours to answer...  umm, a partial list:

then:  new order...  robyn hitchcock...  butthole surfers... 
bauhaus... eisturzeneden neubauten(sp?)...  the cure...  dead
kennedies...  baroque hits...  indian classical...   violent femmes...
 devo...  corrosion of conformity...  jason and the nashville
scorchers...  dalek i...  black sabbath...  this mortal coil, dead can
dance, cocteau twins...  repo man soundtrack...  eno...  


now:  indian classical music...  brazilian bosa nova...  issac hayes,
barry white, al green...  julie london (50's lounge jazz torch
singer)...  vivaldi guitar concertos...  80's electro/funk...  burmese
folk songs...  hindi film sndtrk dance remixes...  miles davis (esp
his crazy fonky 70's shit)...  old jamacan ska (1st wave baby)...  js
bach mass in b minor...  a tribe called quest...  javanese gamelon
(the balinese stuff is too noisy)...  the congos (ganja-soaked classic
reggae)...    non-profit radio stations...  sade...  slayer... 
stravinsky's psalms...  motown oldies...  old 10" 78's...  chet
baker...  erykah badu...  watching goofy 50's musicals with my sis
(camelot's my fave)...  eno...  god this could go on forever, i'll
spare you the rest...


my all time top five list:

5. future sound of london (esp lifeforms)
4. soundtrack to blade runner (not the album but taped right off a
stereo vcr, try it it's very beautiful)... 
3. new order
2. john coltrane (esp. live stuff 63+)
1. brian eno (esp. apollo sdtk, music for airports, music for films III)


-messiah



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 20:32:05 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Hi all!  ]=}.


 My, my how time flies when you're partyin'...


								THE GATHERING:

 85th warehouse in Oakland (near Homebass). Sound in that building 
really sucks!! I've seen two Area 51's, LightFarce and now The Gathering 
there. Too much low frequency reverb that doesn't die for at least 20 
seconds. Add pounding sound systems and it sounds like shite unless you 
are right in front of a speaker (with 1000 others).

 Martin did a 50/50 job on this party. The main floor was really looking 
nice. Multi-Media Meltdown did a suberb job at visuals, D7 (Skippy) did 
a phatty laser show and the props looked good (even if recycled) and 
their were some nice fluro art there.

 The ambient room had almost no visuals (one mirror ball and a couple of 
hangings!?!?). I came in and did some visuals(last minute call and 
rushed) mostly as a favor to ATOI (whom I am a member of). Martin only 
agreed to pay me a $100 for a lot of work. I agreed to this with the 
implication that if he did well a tip would be nice. Martin had a 
fabulous turnout but was too cheap to pay me what I was worth. No big. I 
simply won't support his events. Ever.

 The jumgle room was dark with powerful bass sweeps. It looked scarey 
and fun at the same time.

 Props to Martin for bringing in the Headwaters folks.

									NYE-A HIGH RESOLUTION:

 This party was at the CBC in SF. 5 floors of music with free water and 
fruit for only $15!!!!!! Of course you had to be able to handle trance 
but there was some D&B/Trip Hop going on, on one floor.

 Great music from Koinonea, CCC, Hunab-Ku, Gateway and the Sacred Dance 
Society. Visually the place was exsquisite. Loads of smiling faces 
especially when the party was over. (sigh)

 Special thanks to RLove, Seofon, Jeff Gage, Amy Starkey, Daniel and 
friend, to Adam who made this happen and of course to Julia.


									DIGITAL BE-IN:

 I'll have an altar/art installation piece here with lasers and 
crystals. Lots of great speakers. George Clinton is scheduled to be 
there (doing some live digital mixing). Live NetCast. Nikita on the main 
floor after 11 and mostly Koininea DJ's upstairs. Should be a brainful.

hugz,

Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 20:41:21 1998
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Layne Loomis wrote:
> 
> ---Mook <mcarey@triad.com> wrote:
> 
> > Most folks I know are into
> > Country line dancing and I can stand only so much
> >Country.
> >
> 
> Mark - your scaring me - thats the C' word. Know hold
> out your hand *tssh* you get a slap for mentioning
> ******* line danc--- I won't even call it dancing.
> I never understood why everyone would want to dance
> exactly the same as the person next to you. Where is
> the improvisation, where is the soul - now back to
> our regularly scheduled programing
> 
> LL

I never really like country either but maybe it might be intersting
to do some twangy techo samples about the misses running
away with the dawg and leaving us with nothin but our
bottle of jack daniels. A bunch of glittery candy ravers
doing a line dance to techo twang might be interesting.
Of course if we are going to do a line dance it would 
have to be early in the night cause latter on i dought
if most could even walk a straight line let alone dance
one.

Maybe we could introduce a new improved vErsion of EnsurE
and take it to a squarE dancE and thEn as thE Evening
progrEssed we could mix in a little techno twang and sEE 
what happens. 

	><{{{">  <"}}}>< 

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 20:48:30 1998
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In a message dated 1/9/98, Terri wrote:

<<But I also listened to industrial a lot (not
techno??) and gothic which also has some computerization.  Before that I
listened to 80's "progressive" (Cocteau Twins, Depeche Mode, New Order)
which was pretty computerized too.  >>

I'm right there with Terri, I was a total alternative fiend before making the
jump to music without words 
Never looked back, either....  =)~

luv n hugs
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 20:56:14 1998
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I don't get it?  What's wrong with spreading PLUR around.  Its just a wonderful
positive message.  Just like.... "Have a nice day"  or   "Stay Positive"  or
"Drive Carefully"  or  any other good will gesture.   I highly encourage anyone
that has a negative outlook on a purely positive philosophy like PLUR to please
see a psychotherapist, or get into a drug rehab program, because there may be
something wrong with your perception between good and bad, because you're
really missing the point.

keep it real... Vlad

Wayne wrote:

> At 7:27 PM -0800 1/8/98, laura@hyperreal.org wrote:
> >
> >PLUR needs a breather, it needs a rest.  It needs to go back to being
> >the small jewel that some people find and carry within them rather than
> >a big flag that people wave.  It needs to be a choice, something
> >discovered, rather than something demanded of others.
> >
> >Laura
>
> This was a paragraph that's needed writing for *at least* the last year in
> my not ever humble opinion.
>
> I have become so tired of people beating each other over the head with the
> four pillars of PLUR the same way that christians have historically beat
> entire continents of unwitting 'converts' (i.e. convert or we'll kill you.)
> over the head with the bible.
>
> Both cases are just so ugly.
>
> When you transform PLUR into an organized religion, it definitely loses
> quite of bit of what made it special in the first place and in fact becomes
> something itself that must me stopped.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 20:56:24 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Who's going to digital be in?
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line sketching - I can see it now - oh boy!!

Swing yer' pawtna' by the hair
throw yer' glow stick in the air

uuuhhh I gotta' go

LL



---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> bottle of jack daniels. A bunch of glittery candy
ravers
> doing a line dance to techo twang might be
interesting.
> Of course if we are going to do a line dance it
would 
> have to be early in the night cause latter on i
dought
> if most could even walk a straight line let alone
dance
> one.
> 
> Maybe we could introduce a new improved vErsion of
EnsurE
> and take it to a squarE dancE and thEn as thE Evening
> progrEssed we could mix in a little techno twang
and sEE 
> what happens. 
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}>< 
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:02:13 1998
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k bOOM wrote:
> 
> THe song is called Motorbike.
> It Iz available either on a single or the full length album. The whole
> thing is a bit of fun.
> 
> k Boom

actually, thats not the song...i have that single right here...and those
lyrics arent anywhere...but thanks for the help anyway...helps to narrow
down the options :)

Megan           Czefir
> 
> Czefir wrote:
> 
> > hi hi,
> >
> > i was wondering if anyone could identify the name of the song these
> > lyrics come from..."sex drive...take a ride in my car"  im almost
> > totally sure its from a sheep on drugs song although ive only heard the
> > grace jones cover of it.  any help would be cool :)
> >
> > thanks....
> > Megan          Czefir
> >
> > :) :)

-- 
"Is it too much for me to ask if i ask you to leave?"

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:04:11 1998
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a really great friend sent me this...

>I've Learned.......
>
>I've learned that you can't hide a piece of broccoli in a glass of milk. 
> Age 6
>
>I've learned that I like my teacher because she cries when we sing 
>"Silent Night".  Age 7
>
>I've learned that when I wave to people in the country, they stop what 
>they are doing and wave back.  Age 9
>
>I've learned that just when I get my room the way I like it, Mom makes 
>me clean it up.  Age 12
>
>I've learned that if you want to cheer yourself up, you should try 
>cheering someone else up.  Age 13
>
>I've learned that although it's hard to admit it, I'm secretly glad my 
>parents are strict with me.  Age 15
>
>I've learned that silent company is often more healing than words of 
>advice. Age 24
>
>I've learned that brushing my child's hair is one of life's great 
>pleasures.  Age 25
>
>I've learned that wherever I go, the worlds worst drivers have followed 
>me there.  Age 29
>
>I've learned...that if someone says something unkind about me, I must 
>live so that no one will believe it. Age 39
>
>I've learned that there are people who love you dearly but just don't 
>know how to show it.  Age 41
>
>I've learned that you can make someone's day by simply sending them a 
>little card.  Age 44
>
>I've learned that the greater a person's sense of guilt, the greater his 
> need to cast blame on others.  Age 45
>
>I've learned that children and grandparents are natural allies.  Age 46 
>
>I've learned that singing "Amazing Grace" can lift my spirits for hours. 
> Age 49
>
>I've learned that motel mattresses are better on the side away from the 
>phone. Age 50
>
>I've learned that you can tell a lot about a man by the way he handles 
>these three things: a rainy day, lost luggage, and tangled Christmas 
>tree lights.  Age 52
>
>I've learned that regardless of your relationship with your parents, you 
> miss them terribly after they die.  Age 53
>
>I've learned that making a living is not the same thing as making a 
>life.
> Age 58
>
>I've learned that if you want to do something positive for your 
>children, try to improve your marriage.  Age 61
>
>I've learned that life sometimes gives you a second chance.  Age 62 
>
>I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catchers mitt on 
>both hands. You need to be able to throw something back.  Age 64
>
>I've learned that if you pursue happiness, it will elude you.  But if 
>you focus on your family, the needs of others, your work, meeting new 
>people, and doing the very best you can, happiness will find you.  Age 
>65
>
>I've learned that whenever I decide something with kindness, I usually 
>make the right decision.  Age 66
>
>I've learned that everyone can use a prayer.  Age 72 
>
>I've learned that it pays to believe in miracles. And to tell the truth, 
> I've seen several.  Age 73
>
>I've learned that even when I have pains, I don't have to be one.  Age 
>82
>
>I've learned that every day you should reach out and touch someone. 
>People love that human touch--holding hands, a warm hug, or just a 
>friendly pat on the back. Age 85
>
>I've learned that I still have a lot to learn. Age 92 
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:15:34 1998
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You know, perhaps a free party would be a way to make amends for the
hurt feelings here!  Nomad - this could be a great new beginning for
you!  The pr opportunities are limited only by your imagination!

Diana

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:17:52 1998
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From: Larry Ching <larryc@netcom.com>
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[NRR to SFRaves ]

 Time to unsub again - all the NYE party reviews are done, not 
counting the Nomad Interactive thread  :-\ . I'm getting busy at
work and in my non-rave portions of my life, so I gotta go , but
will return some day. Meanwhile, some senile ramblings ... 

 I had my birthday yesterday, 43 years! I remember when I was a kid 
reading about when Halley's Comet would come back to our solar system
and I calculated how old I would be then - I'd be ancient!  

 With the Cold War in full gear , I think a part of me did not expect
to survive long enough. I used to think about nuclear war at least 
once a week. Memories of mushroom clouds... 

 QUESTION for the twenty-something and younger folks on the list -
do you expect to survive up to and past 2013 ? If not, and if the reason's
not too personal, why not? Expect the killer asteroid to hit?  

 God! - can't wait for the Sunset parties to start up again !


 Cheerio!

 Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:21:39 1998
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The problem is that phrases like "Drive carefully" and "Have a nice
day" have become hackneyed and no longer mean anything at all to
anyone.  Plus, anytime midia conglomerates or big, heartless
corporations get their hands on an idea or movement like this they
stick it in people's face until it loses all meaning.  Look at what
people think when you say "Peace, brother." or something along those
lines . . .  You are a dirty hippy throw-back.  

Look for PLUR to be used in a Fruitopia ad in the next year.

Now, of course, it's a beautiful concept, but we have to be careful
not to kill it with over use.

Okay,
Steve.

Ray Vonie wrote:
> 
> I don't get it?  What's wrong with spreading PLUR around.  Its just a wonderful
> positive message.  Just like.... "Have a nice day"  or   "Stay Positive"  or
> "Drive Carefully"  or  any other good will gesture.   I highly encourage anyone
> that has a negative outlook on a purely positive philosophy like PLUR to please
> see a psychotherapist, or get into a drug rehab program, because there may be
> something wrong with your perception between good and bad, because you're
> really missing the point.
> 
> keep it real... Vlad
-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:25:35 1998
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Subject: Re: PLUR bashing (was promoter bashing)
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On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Ray Vonie wrote:

> I don't get it?  

Well at least you can admit it.

> What's wrong with spreading PLUR around.  Its just a wonderful
> positive message.  Just like.... "Have a nice day"  or   "Stay Positive"  or
> "Drive Carefully"  or  any other good will gesture.   I highly encourage anyone
> that has a negative outlook on a purely positive philosophy like PLUR to please
> see a psychotherapist, or get into a drug rehab program, because there may be
> something wrong with your perception between good and bad, because you're
> really missing the point.

I think what Wayne and others were saying is that they are tired of
people doing exactly what you are doing:  misusing the concept to put
other people down. 

Personally, you are up there in my book for misuse of the term. But I'll
be happy to stick to flaming you for the sometimes stupid things you say
rather than your (mis)use of that term. 

Patrick




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:28:23 1998
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On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, steve wrote:

> The problem is that phrases like "Drive carefully" and "Have a nice
> day" have become hackneyed and no longer mean anything at all to
> anyone.  Plus, anytime midia conglomerates or big, heartless
> corporations get their hands on an idea or movement like this they
> stick it in people's face until it loses all meaning.  

Hmm, you mean like using the term for marketing purposes, or writing the
term "PLUR" on envelopes of money you are paying people with? 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:33:01 1998
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Sounds Good! wrote:

> Paul Hayden wrote:
> >  If then vibe is screaming money, you may be able
> > to fool the gangsters, the assholes, the jerks and all the bad
> vibes,
> > but you can't fool the ravers.
>
> How many True, Vibe Spotting, Ravers you reckon go to those kind of
> raves?
> If the percentage is high. I may start going.
>
> I wonder what I have been missing????

<smile>  probably not too many.  I don't go to any of "those" kind of
raves, but a biz is a biz, and that's what I was tryin' to say.

K




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:35:58 1998
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b e n c h u n wrote:

> basically, the state of the list is that we have some allegations, an
> alternate version of the story from nomad, and the reply from vortexbrad
> that still nothing had been done. does this seem familiar? although i would
> love to see that situation fixed, it is of less interest to me than a core
> issue that came up when vlad gave his perspective and brain took offense.
>
> in essence, the debate is over the line between producer and participant,
> between organizer and attendee... where vlad says, "The promoters function
> in this scene is to produce the event, and the function of the raver is to
> go and have fun at the party and support the promoter, so that they have
> the resources to produce future parties.  There is a big separation between
> producer and participant." and brian weighs in with "Fuck that.  Fuck any
> line between 'promoter' and 'raver'."
>
> now personally, i tend to side with brian on that. but that's my own bias.
> i am not a person who wants to live in a society where we are held
> powerless to create for ourselves, to express anything beyond a decision
> between competing products. i am not a communist by any strech, but i'm not
> just a consumer demographic statistic. for example, i hope that none of you
> are taking the highest bidder to be your significant other. that
> demonstrates that there must a line in our lives where capitalistic
> relationships END and there is something more that we care about, some
> other system of valuation.

I can see how my statement can throw you off.  So let me expand on exactly how
i feel about this.  First of all... We Are ALL Ravers here.  However, there is
a certain creativity that goes into producing an event.  That is the difference
between a raver and a producer.  Take for example an artist, that creates
artwork.  without admirers, his work would go unnoticed, and just be a hobby.
But people who admire art, also critique it highly, because they did not create
it.  The same thing is true here.  producers put a lot of creativity into their
events.  Be it Organizational creativity, Artistic creativity, Musical
creativity... and so on.  They do this because this is their outlet.  And just
like the artists, they want to change peoples perception, and influence
people.  Rave producers ar the same way... They need an audience... they need
to feel that their efforts are justified and being enjoyed by the masses.  That
something positive is coming from their frustration and effort.  That is were
there needs to be a separation.   We are all creative people, and just like an
art exposition, were there are artists and art lovers....  A rave two must have
its producers and participants, or else there becomes an unbalance.  It sure
would be kind of funny if you could go to a art gallery or a museum, and add
your personal touch to any artwork you felt like.  It just wouldn't be
respectful of the art or it's artist.  Well likewise in this scene, ravers need
to enjoy the 12 hour masterpiece created by the produce....  That is what gives
the producer their zest to pursue other avenues of creativity, and produce
better and more creative events.

> for myself, i want to be a part of a rave community that is on the other
> side of that line, where i am not merely a consumer of the "rave party
> product" that someone else creates for me to "have fun... and support" but
> rather where i am a PART of the rave itself, where of course there are
> organizers but everyone including them is a participant in the true sense
> of the word. a party that we throw for each other.

This is a very wonderful concept, and in many aspects it takes place already.
Just by participating, you are becoming the most important part of the
creation.  You are the purpose.  You are the reason why the party is there...
its for YOU.. For everyone that wants it.  That is the beauty of it all.

> to be fair, some people might WANT to purchase "rave party product" which
> requires nothing of them, asks nothing of them. in my mind, that is why
> companies like nomad exist. for them, the "rave party" is a business. and i
> hold nothing against them for making it their business, but the parties
> they throw under such a value system are not something i am interested in
> attending or supporting. additionally, their integrity within such a
> business is not something i'm qualified to comment upon. =)

Rave producers are no different than DJ's.  DJ's have their sets, and their
particular styles, and someday you may love what they play, and other days you
don't.  The dj's produce their sets in an effort to bring people together
through dance and music.  EVERY Rave producer I know has the exact same
intentions!!!  But just like you wouldn't go up to a DJ and start playing with
the mixer during their set because you think it would sound better...  You
surely can not judge a producer and tell them how they need to do their parties
just because they had a one or two bad events.   Everyone is always receptive
to criticism, but the concept of RESPECT maintains a line between the creator
and the observer.  That is the point that I was trying to make.

> if more people recognized this core issue of what different production
> companies and collectives see the attendee's role as, i think we would have
> a stronger community making better decisions about what we want raving to
> be! it's been said before, but i'm going to say it again and please, think
> about what it really means to... "KEEP IT REAL."

Of all people.. I wouldn't be surprised if I am the one that says this the
most.  :)   But You are right... It is important for the ENTIRE community to
understand each other as well as each others desires and directions...  or else
WE can not call ourselves a community at all.

Keep it Real...   Vlad



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:38:38 1998
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Subject: Re: Who's going to digital be in?
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Layne,

That's scarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! :(
!!

Can you imagine "Bobby Joe Johnson" on E??? He'd start talking about his
facination with sheep... hehhe!

Byroni

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Layne Loomis wrote:

> line sketching - I can see it now - oh boy!!
> 
> Swing yer' pawtna' by the hair
> throw yer' glow stick in the air
> 
> uuuhhh I gotta' go
> 
> LL
> 
> 
> 
> ---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> 
> > bottle of jack daniels. A bunch of glittery candy
> ravers
> > doing a line dance to techo twang might be
> interesting.
> > Of course if we are going to do a line dance it
> would 
> > have to be early in the night cause latter on i
> dought
> > if most could even walk a straight line let alone
> dance
> > one.
> > 
> > Maybe we could introduce a new improved vErsion of
> EnsurE
> > and take it to a squarE dancE and thEn as thE Evening
> > progrEssed we could mix in a little techno twang
> and sEE 
> > what happens. 
> > 
> > 	><{{{">  <"}}}>< 
> > 
> > 		foolish fish
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:40:27 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Who's going to digital be in?
To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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hehehe ohhh and I thought I was the only one bored
at work  baaaaaaa

LL





---*byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Layne,
> 
> That's
scarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!
:(
> !!
> 
> Can you imagine "Bobby Joe Johnson" on E??? He'd
start talking about his
> facination with sheep... hehhe!
> 
> Byroni
> 
> On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Layne Loomis wrote:
> 
> > line sketching - I can see it now - oh boy!!
> > 
> > Swing yer' pawtna' by the hair
> > throw yer' glow stick in the air
> > 
> > uuuhhh I gotta' go
> > 
> > LL
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> > 
> > > bottle of jack daniels. A bunch of glittery candy
> > ravers
> > > doing a line dance to techo twang might be
> > interesting.
> > > Of course if we are going to do a line dance it
> > would 
> > > have to be early in the night cause latter on i
> > dought
> > > if most could even walk a straight line let alone
> > dance
> > > one.
> > > 
> > > Maybe we could introduce a new improved vErsion
of
> > EnsurE
> > > and take it to a squarE dancE and thEn as thE
Evening
> > > progrEssed we could mix in a little techno twang
> > and sEE 
> > > what happens. 
> > > 
> > > 	><{{{">  <"}}}>< 
> > > 
> > > 		foolish fish
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> 
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
> 			-me
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:41:11 1998
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From: inanna <inanna@wenet.net>
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To: AnonEmuss Raver <anonemuss98@hotmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: In regards to the Nomad Incident: It is EASY to rape and plunder sfraves because...
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AnonEmuss Raver wrote:
> 
> All the bitching that you could possibly post to sfraves will never stop
> bad producers from throwing bad parties. The reason is, is that not
> everyone reads sf-raves. Only a small 'lil chunk of our raving community
> even knows about this whole situation. If the public was informed of
> what was going on, then Nomad, or any other crew that didn't have their
> act together, would have a 'lil more of a problem throwing parties. They
> wouldn't have any supporters or attendees.
> Perhaps this is the reason Nomad just doesn't give a shit. Why should
> they even worry about justifying what they did to this list? It's only
> 500 people out of thousands.
> 
> Something to think about.
> 
> anonEmuss

I have to agree that the rave scene is pretty easy to rape and plunder
because of a few qualities our scene possesses.  I am sure that you can
come up with more reasons our scene is vulnerable.
1.)short-lived memories, and we tend to minimize our complaints when we
think we are alone in our viewpoint. 
2.)the quick turnover of people coming into/ going out of the scene
makes it possible for a bad promoter to not be recognized from their
horrible party one year ago. 
3.)the fact that most ravers are in the age range of 16-24, (an age
group that isn't always familiar with their legal and human rights.)

Actually, I am happy and impressed with the overtures from Stacey of
Nomad to rectify my complaint.  I think they are on the right track to
humbly seeking a way to fix what they did wrong.  Nomad could come away
form this as total heroes in the scene if they are diligent and honestly
care about this...

Diana

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 21:48:06 1998
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From: Satkriya Khalsa <satkhalsa@ucdavis.edu>
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Subject: happy kids
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I will see all of you there, I will be with about 20 other davis kids!  

sat kriya

I will be wearing a red tank top and pigtails and be grooving to Uncle
Noah!




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 22:30:46 1998
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From: "Brendan" <brendan@club.net>
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Subject: [bsp] DEEP line-up - Re'ach 9-11
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:30:45 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Rotundo <tony@xinet.com>
Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 2:18 PM
Subject: [fnf] DEEP line-up - Re'ach 9-11


>HI!
>
>Hope to see some of you kids at DEEP tonight.  Just a breif note to let you
>know Rich is spinning first, 9-11, and I think he said he'd go from
>Downbeat through DnB to gabber...=)
>
>Should be interesting, but come out early...
>
>Here is the info again.  Hey, could someone post this on SFR for me?  I'm
>not on that anymore.  Thanks!
>
>_____________________________________
>Top Ten Reasons to go to DEEP tonight
>_____________________________________
>
>10) Proceeds will NOT be going to the "Dennis Peron for Governor" fund.
>
>9) Thumb your nose at the new smoking law!  (There's a patio =)
>
>8) Your only opportunity to buy Jenny Miller a drink for her birthday.
>
>7) Left over bouillabaisse.
>
>6) See DJ the DJ.
>
>5) Hang out with Stacy Bloom and Claudia.
>
>4) Enjoy the down home feel of Potrero Hill.
>
>3) Listen to Greg Palino brag about his new black 1200s.
>
>2) Two syllables:  RE' ACH!!
>
>And the number one reason to go to DEEP this Friday...
>
>1) Another opportunity to marvel at the uncanny resemblance between Goolie
>and Fat Freddy of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers!
>http://xinet.com/tony/goolie.html
>
>The details:
>__________________________
>Friday, January 9th - DEEP
>ReAch, BioJeff, Des Jardines (DJ =)
>First Friday of the month (except January!).
>9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Il Pirata, 2007 16th St @ Potrero, SF.
>http://www.xinet.com/tony/deep
>__________________________
>
>Hope to see ya'll there!
>
>Love Tone
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 23:05:12 1998
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Larry Ching wrote:
 
>  QUESTION for the twenty-something and younger folks on the list -
> do you expect to survive up to and past 2013 ? If not, and if the > reason's not too personal, why not? Expect the killer asteroid to hit?

Since the Maya predicted a couple thousand years ago that the current
cycle of civilization would come to an end on December 23, 2012 (and
their calander STILL predicts solar eclipses and stuff with an accuracy
within, like, 40 SECONDS), I would have to say no, I don't expect to
be around in 2013.  But, then again, I'm out of your requested age
range, so maybe I'm just old and crochety.

Looking for DJ's to spin at a party on Dec 22, 2012.  You will get paid.

Steve.

Only users lose drugs.

-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 23:05:29 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:05:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sheep on Drugs song ID
To: Czefir <Czefir@ix.netcom.com>
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Right you are!  It's actually Track X.  
They have a pretty good album titled 'Track X', and
I'm sure it's on others also.
Matt.

P.S. The song also has the lyric 'See the size of my eyes - BIG!'
which make me laugh ...

---Czefir <Czefir@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > THe song is called Motorbike.
> 
> actually, thats not the song...i have that single right here...and
those
> lyrics arent anywhere...but thanks for the help anyway...helps to
narrow
> down the options :)
> 
> Megan           Czefir

> > > i was wondering if anyone could identify the name of the song
these
> > > lyrics come from..."sex drive...take a ride in my car"  im almost
> > > totally sure its from a sheep on drugs song although ive only
heard the
> > > grace jones cover of it.  any help would be cool :)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 23:13:48 1998
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  Northwest Raves <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Oh yeah. How could I possibly forget Skinny Puppy. And Hilt. And although this
goes a bit out of the line of thought Download, the current living incarnation of
Skinny Puppy is quite a bit of a head stretcher.

kbOOM

Reagan Reid wrote:

>  some of my Favs. on the electronic (?) possibly more like weird front
> are:
> The Tear Garden
> Doubting Thomas
> Skinny Puppy (industrial)
> Legendary Pink Dots
> Hilt
> Clock DVA
>                                -Reagan
>
>               P.s.- does anyone out there like: 1)Faith & the Muse
>    2)Malign or 3) Strange Boutique and know where to find their music??
>
>               P.S- Hey, Depeche Mode is cool!
>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 23:51:57 1998
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Hello everyone. Sorry to *SPAM* the list... but I have to. Because I want
you guys to do something for me.

Go out into the rain with an umbrella, a warm jacket and a walkman... and
listen to Robert Miles' "Dreamland". Especially songs #3... "Fantasya"...
you'll pick up so much good energy and give off so much good energy...
LIFE was made for this song.... and this song was made for life.. "Thank
you Robert Miles"... sigh... I picture myself flying free high above
deep  green, lush, rolling hills...
with distant clouds and a deep blue sky above and below me... listening to
this makes me feel soo good... the woman's voice is that of an angel
telling me that everything is as it was meant to be in my life... and that
my dreams are *real* as I want them to be and that love is all that
trully matters.... and that
loving yourself is #1... and with this song you will see the beauty in
yourself... (not that you haven't seen it before... but sometimes we
forget or take ourselves for granted...) ...don't think too deeply just 
*feel*... and you'll see that
your spirit is the superior power to this flesh... once your realize this
everything will begin to make sense...

(nice for someone who hasn't posted much lately... well this is why, I've
been thinking and feeling internally a lot more... and this is good once
in a while...)

The sky is deep... the air is fresh and cool... the night is young... we
are eternal.

another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 23:53:21 1998
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The further away from the changing edge of music/art/culture you stay the
greater a chance you run of being mired in one paradigm. Stuck in a
moment. Music is especially powerful. You can be endlessly that awkward
fifteen year old looking for a bit of romance and feeling mighty cool with
the knowledge that your buddies in aerosmith know just how you feel. Not
myself of course but a quick trip to the home stomping grounds confirms
that many people still live with a desire to recapture youth, to be
eternally young.
Personally I feel that the secret to doing just that, the staying young
thing is to keep a feel for how music is changing. Change is the essential
element of youthfulness. Staying flexible in body mind spirit soul. Keep
the motion happening.
I've got that same box full of memories. Occasionally I remove them and
listen for the sake of remembering or in some cases to forget. Same
feelings that one gets when pulling out a photo album. I see a snapshot. A
captured moment in passing time. The illusion of permanence. Is it real.
Was it ever. Does it matter?? Does it make you feel. Yes definitely.
Music is one of those powerful motivators. It's no accident that Church
services feature music as a cornerstone of the service. Rhythms and sound
touch us in very profound ways.
None of this is either surprising or revolutionary.
But in the spirit of this thread I can personally say that I do like to
reminisce from time to time, but would stop being playful and start being
bored if I ever really did have to listen to the same ten albums over and
over again on my little desert island.

kbOOM

Messiah Wannabe wrote:

> > music, and my personal passion for it will last just as long.
> > so they're both timeless in my definition. :)
>
> > people can hurt you
> > turn their back on you
> > but music.. will remain to be my best friend :)
> >
>
> actually, i find that as i grow older i develop something akin to a
> very personal relationship with my music.  there's a whole box of cd's
> that i used to listen to with my ex-wife, i really can't listen to
> them now (though they're sitting in my parents' basement should i ever
> decide i want to bring those memories back...)  there are albums i
> listened to at certain times of my life, and listening to them can
> take me right back to when i first heard them.  then there are a few
> albums i've listened to for so long, over so many periods of my life,
> that all the memories associated with the music are jumbled up into
> thousands of shades of emotion, listening to them is like hanging out
> with an old friend who's been with you through good times and bad...
>
> but i'm not really one to live in my memories.  i've known some people
> who never quit listening to the music they jammed out to in high
> school - classic rock, generally, but it could be anything.  i have
> this theory about people who listen to the same stuff all their lives
> - it's like they've stopped living, and their musical tastes reflect
> this stagnancy.  like maybe they long for their high school days when
> everything seemed magical and new, but instead of finding new things
> to bring that emotion back, they turn on the oldies station and
> reminesce...
>
> -mw




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 09 23:56:47 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Age restriction for digital be-in?
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:57:04 -0800
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Anybody know if there is an age restriction like 21+ or 18+ for tonight's
event.
I know 1015's Nikita is usually 21+ but I have a friend who is twenty and
she
is wondering if she can come.

Thanx

Mark <><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 00:05:23 1998
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			    crappy parties!
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Ray Vonie wrote: 
>      Are you just the stupidest person on this planet, or do you find it amusing to
> threaten some ones life in a public forum such as this.
>    You're a moron.  Grow
> Up... and from now on... Think before you speak.


Oops. I think Ray is right. I was trying to make a point about future 
promoters learning from past lessons and I used an evil and cruel 
hypothetical situation. This was a real bad move on my part and I would 
like to urge anybody who is thinking about acting on these felonious 
suggestions to seek serious help. It is NOT agood thing to destroy 
personal property and furthermore to plan to hurt someone is really BAD!
I also apologize to NOMAD for not thinking before posting. Boy is my 
face red!





> >  The best thing about the "promoter bashing" is future promoters are reading this. Not
> > just present day ravers/promoters. Hopefully future promoter will say Oh No I Wont Rip
> > Off The Scene, remember NOMAD? you dont? Well they ripped everyone off and despite
> > thier gangland connections thier warehouse burned down and they ended up in the bay.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 00:08:49 1998
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Happy Happy Birthday Larry!

We will miss you.  Come back soon.

Diana Greer

ps Hello Mary!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 00:15:10 1998
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In-Reply-To: <01bd1d5a$48f83490$5de0adcd@pcmc.triad.com> from "Mook" at Jan 9, 98 03:57:04 pm
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Unfortunatly, it is 21+

-troy

> 
> Anybody know if there is an age restriction like 21+ or 18+ for tonight's
> event.
> I know 1015's Nikita is usually 21+ but I have a friend who is twenty and
> she
> is wondering if she can come.
> 
> Thanx
> 
> Mark <><
> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tsheets@saturn5.com                        <- You have found me   
tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com                  <- Official Use Only
http://www.saturn5.com/tsheets/            <- Instant Content
troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com               <- Inquire Within

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 00:19:49 1998
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Subject: Re: Best of 97**
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 16:11:12 -0800
x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997
From: Alex Rosenberg <alexr@goonsquad.spies.com>
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I haven't seen anybody mention some of my favorites:

FnF Together Again
Trust Surrender
Sweet
Koinoneia 2012
Blue Room

+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Alexander M. Rosenberg <mailto:alexr@_goonsquad.spies.com> |
| Nobody cares what I say. Remove the underscore to mail me. |


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 00:42:31 1998
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To: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: [NRR] Millenium
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Isn't the Maya prophesy subject to other non-destructive interpretations,
such as infusion or recognition of "otherwordly" life forms in our society?
This would drastically change civilization as we know it.  This theory also
corresponds well to the astrology predictions concerning the age of aquarius
- when pisces enters this sign.
This is Mulder signing off ....
hee hee
My hope is that life will be different, maybe improved, but not over.

love, Terri


>Larry Ching wrote:
> 
>>  QUESTION for the twenty-something and younger folks on the list -
>> do you expect to survive up to and past 2013 ? If not, and if the >
reason's not too personal, why not? Expect the killer asteroid to hit?
>
>Since the Maya predicted a couple thousand years ago that the current
>cycle of civilization would come to an end on December 23, 2012 (and
>their calander STILL predicts solar eclipses and stuff with an accuracy
>within, like, 40 SECONDS), I would have to say no, I don't expect to
>be around in 2013.  But, then again, I'm out of your requested age
>range, so maybe I'm just old and crochety.
>
>Looking for DJ's to spin at a party on Dec 22, 2012.  You will get paid.
>
>Steve.
>
>Only users lose drugs.
>
>-- 
>And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
>Before you buy:
>http://www.compare.net/
>Information is Power
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 00:47:02 1998
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From: "AnonEmuss Raver" <anonemuss98@hotmail.com>
To: hernancz@sirius.com, rayvonie@ix.netcom.com
Cc: lucke@rocketmail.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: In regards to the Nomad Incident: put an end to these    
    crappy parties!
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>
>Sounds Good! wrote:
>
>> AnonEmuss Raver wrote:
>>
>> >  I say we kill 'em! =)
>>
>
>     Are you just the stupidest person on this planet, or do you find 
it amusing to
>threaten some ones life in a public forum such as this.  Do you realize 
that if anything
>happens to these people,  the police will be knocking on your door 
because you have shown
>MOTIVE!!!!  didn't you know better than to NEVER put threats in 
writing?  And especially
>Publicly talk about your feelings on killing someone.   Even if 
something unfortunate
>happened to them and you had nothing to do with it, you could still get 
blamed for
>conspiring, or assessor to murder just by opening your mouth.   You're 
a moron.  Grow
>Up... and from now on... Think before you speak.
>

are you just the STUPIDEST FUCKING PROMOTER IN THE FUCKIN WORLD?!??!?! 
it was a fucking joke. I am aware of the fucking law. If I get in 
trouble then I get in fuckin trouble, but don't you fuckin talk down to 
me!

"YOU FUCKING MORON! YOU FUCKING GROW UP!
AND FROM FUCKING NOW ON, YOU THINK BEFORE YOU FUCKING SPEAK!"

you're no better than any of us VLAD, so don't act/speak like you are! 

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO TALK TO ME LIKE THIS?

oh PLURRY ass promoter vlad, you should fucking follow what you fuckin 
preach! god damn you, be happy, you've seriously pissed me off! but now 
I feel better. =)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 00:55:28 1998
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From: blkadder@value.net
Reply-To: blkadder@value.net
To: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing/not
In-Reply-To: <349329D4.640D@pacbell.net>
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On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, thenomad wrote:

> There was one check written to an artist and immediately exchanged for
> full payment and only one other check written to a production person who
> wanted one until everything was taken care of. This person has received
> almost all of his fees and is very satisfied with the arrangement we
> have between us. That is the extent of it. There were no other checks
> written.

Hmm, that is a little bit different than what the original recipient of
one of you checks stated. 

> Personally, I don't feel it is any of your business to question the
> relationship we have with each and every one of our vendors or people we
> work with. 

Well, since we are sharing our feeling(ooh I feel warm and squishy),
personally I don't give a damn what you think my business is. 

A person repeatedly stated that you wrote them a bad check. And that is
something that you should be held accountable for IMO. The person in
question should have never had to have aired their grievance here if you
folks had your shit together. I am in no way questioning your relationship
with each and every one of your vendors, I am questioning your actions in
this specific instance. 

> They have a right to the same privacy. 

Perhaps you missed the original post from the person who, in a public
forum, stated that you wrote them a bad check. Now if I had to guess, I
would say that that person wasn't seeking privacy in this matter.  

> situation. The biggest risk takers are the promoters; they are also the
> most vulnerable because they do put themselves on the line every time
> and are under the most scrutiny. 

And how does this relate to the issue of rather or not you wrote a rubber
check? Please, stick to the topic at hand. 

> The production people come in for one night, do their thing and leave. A
> promoter may work for months to plan an event. 

Really? Gosh, I would never have guessed. It's not like I have ever done
anything to help throw a party. 

> I am not however saying that people shoudn't get paid.
> Everyone gets paid even if we don't get paid. 

Well, obviously there is at least one person awaiting that payment. I
guess the bigger question is that if people did not have to resort to/have
the ability to use a public forum such as this if you would have indeed
made good on your payment. 

> Rest assured that we are taking care of our obligations.

On the basis of *your* word? I think I'll pass.

Patrick




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 01:12:44 1998
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i don't think that vlad thinks he is better than any of us, he is merely
commenting on the situation in his opinion and expressing serious concern
over your words, i think your comment is outta line and you need to chill
			ken


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 01:22:22 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-09 14:02:10 EST, you write:

<< Perhaps this is the reason Nomad just doesn't give a shit. Why should 
 they even worry about justifying what they did to this list? It's only 
 500 people out of thousands.
 
 Something to think about.
 
 anonEmuss
  >>

Because the 500 or so people who are on this list obviously really care about
and are involved in the scene (or else why would we all bother to sort through
those continous throngs of email that pour at us EACH and everyday;),
therefore contributing to the scene significantly, plus, they all probably
know about 100 or so more people each =*) SoOoOo you BET that lotssss more
people are going to hear about this incident. They better worry and get their
act together, because if they don't, they'll eventually get whatever is coming
to them from all their past actions. KARMA baby KARMA!!!

Wishing she could be a happy kid =*(
Have fun everyone!

I hate winter and the flu it brings me!

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 01:27:33 1998
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anyone want to start a thread on >>fave<< techno-samples?  Not only as a
positive distraction, but to flesh out some of some of the old skool knowledge
on this list?

shivvers down your spine and a sublime grin to your face, and only a few of
your kind can even relate!

"BASS for LOVE, love FOR BASS"

peace, 
q.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 01:47:59 1998
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From: "AnonEmuss Raver" <anonemuss98@hotmail.com>
To: kgzanotto@ucdavis.edu
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Subject: Re: In regards to the Nomad Incident: put an end to these 
    crappy parties!
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Merely my ass. Look.... it's all fine and dandy to remind me of our 
great judicial system, however, the use of the words moron, stupid, etc. 
directed towards me, isn't nessesary at all. If you thought my comment 
was outta line, and I need to chill, then the same should be said 
towards vlad. He preaches all about PLUR so damn much, yet he doesn't 
seem to practice this. That in itself pissed me off, as did calling me 
stupid. I guess I might of over reacted just a tad, but I wrote exactly 
what I felt. It's hard to show how you feel when you post, but I'm sure 
it's pretty damned obvious how I felt when I wrote what I did.

if Jesus came back to earth and sinned, wouldn't that piss off a lot a 
Christians?

>
>i don't think that vlad thinks he is better than any of us, he is 
merely
>commenting on the situation in his opinion and expressing serious 
concern
>over your words, i think your comment is outta line and you need to 
chill
>			ken
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 02:25:48 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, larryc@netcom.com
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> QUESTION for the twenty-something and younger folks on the list -
>do you expect to survive up to and past 2013 ? If not, and if the 
reason's
>not too personal, why not? Expect the killer asteroid to hit?  

hmmm... I'm thinking around 2030 or 2040 when fresh water and the human 
popluation REALLY REALLY start to become a problem...
justa thought.....
let me leave you with a lighter note...
  its not the amount of time... but the quality of the time
ok bye bye 
Philip
disordr



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 02:29:11 1998
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From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: Name that tune
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yeah yeah, I'm old but I still like that techno bit "O Fortuna" by
Apotheosis and "Spice" by 808 State (or was it Eon?).  I just had an old
skool techno party last October and, boy, was there some crusty Steve
Masters stuff there!  But by the end of the night we were playing
drum-n-bass, of course.  = )  Sad part was, a lot of people there had never
even heard this stuff - they thought it was NEW!  Of course, they weren't
ravers, either ....

>
>anyone want to start a thread on >>fave<< techno-samples?  Not only as a
>positive distraction, but to flesh out some of some of the old skool knowledge
>on this list?
>
>shivvers down your spine and a sublime grin to your face, and only a few of
>your kind can even relate!
>
>"BASS for LOVE, love FOR BASS"
>
>peace, 
>q.
>
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 02:40:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:35:43 EST
To: alexr@goonsquad.spies.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: H/--\PPY /<iDs!!!!!!!! Lets all meet in front of uncle noahs set...yes?
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Hey Kids!!!!!!!!!! Tommorrow is the night to be HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!! Woo
Hoo....any ways I'll be there for sure and I will be wearing big jeans with a
sun patch on the butt!!!!! I have blonde hair and I am petite....I want to
meet more of you guys so please if you remember that the *MushyB! girl has a
sun on her butt with 2 buns in her hair....come and say hello....I love you
guys....looking forward to meeting some of you....in front of uncle noah's
set......can we all make it this time.....<3*MushyB!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 02:50:49 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: alexr@goonsquad.spies.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org, Karma2001@aol.com
Subject: Re: H/--\PPY /-iDs!!!!!!!! Lets all meet in front of uncle 
    noahs set...yes?
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when and where will uncle noahs set be????
see ya there
peace
Philip
disordr


>Hey Kids!!!!!!!!!! Tommorrow is the night to be HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!! Woo
>Hoo....any ways I'll be there for sure and I will be wearing big jeans 
with a
>sun patch on the butt!!!!! I have blonde hair and I am petite....I want 
to
>meet more of you guys so please if you remember that the *MushyB! girl 
has a
>sun on her butt with 2 buns in her hair....come and say hello....I love 
you
>guys....looking forward to meeting some of you....in front of uncle 
noah's
>set......can we all make it this time.....<3*MushyB!
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 03:02:45 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:02:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Name that tune
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Uncle Noah's favorite samples:

there are like 3 breaks from 'Security' by the The Beat Club that are used 
time and again and I love them every time...

of course, the break from 'Amen My Brother' by the Winstons and the 
Apache break are classics...


On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Q232de wrote:

> 
> anyone want to start a thread on >>fave<< techno-samples?  Not only as a
> positive distraction, but to flesh out some of some of the old skool knowledge
> on this list?
> 
> shivvers down your spine and a sublime grin to your face, and only a few of
> your kind can even relate!
> 
> "BASS for LOVE, love FOR BASS"
> 
> peace, 
> q.
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 03:37:04 1998
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bABy HueY wrote:
> 
> I personally have never herad it,  and I'm as always no help to you,
> however, I really liked the origonal (from what it sounds like)
> "We like the cars, The cars that go BOOM...
> With Tigra, and Bunny cuz we like the BOOM"  -Salt'n Pepa I believe
> My ass is shakin' now FellaZ!!! :P
> Later,
> Danny
> 
> >From sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri Jan  9
> 10:42:27 1998
> >Received: (qmail 17579 invoked by uid 6000); 9 Jan 1998 18:42:20 -0000
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> >Received: from [192.86.155.91] by send1a; Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:41:53 PST
> >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:41:53 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Name that tune
> >To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> >
> >First of all, hello to anybody who might remember me from my previous
> >incarnation on the list - I'm back!
> >
> >My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the day:
> >Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark jungle song with this
> >sample:
> > "I like the bass ...
> >   I like the bass that goes BOOM"
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Matt.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
No it was not S&P that much i know, I think it was Tigra and Bunny?? 
Fate

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 03:59:46 1998
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Stacey @ Nomad:
At the recent Crash Worship show, one of their patrons
ripped the alarm system off the wall. That bill totalled almost $300. We
have been left many times to deal with these issues.
 -=-==-=-

well now you got me pissed! That was _your_ place where the Crash
Worship fiasco was held!

OK, I'll just cool down a bit and offer you an idea to save your
financial butt --

design and market your own  water bottle & sell on a regular basis -
form a non-profit or not-for-profit if you have to

sell it for a $1 for small and maybe $2 for large

That crap that I witnessed at CW was in-human. (Maybe I'm naive but when
hundreds of people are dealing with heat exhaustion BUT you can get a
freet 1/2 shot of water?!

I hope you can create some long-term plans if you really care about
what's going on know and in years to come. I basically won't go to
larger venues as I makes me ill to see careless disregard for your
fellow humans. If that means not paying through the nose for larger than
life spaces or dj's or sound systems or whatever than do so - maybe
feature "up-&-coming talent space" there are so many talented folks that
would love the chance to play for a grateful crowd.

I agree with the soul searching idea, it will take time but everyone
will be happy

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 04:11:12 1998
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Terri E. Young wrote:
> 
> yeah yeah, I'm old but I still like that techno bit "O Fortuna" by
> Apotheosis and "Spice" by 808 State (or was it Eon?).  I just had an old
> skool techno party last October and, boy, was there some crusty Steve
> Masters stuff there!  But by the end of the night we were playing
> drum-n-bass, of course.  = )  Sad part was, a lot of people there had never
> even heard this stuff - they thought it was NEW!  Of course, they weren't
> ravers, either ....
> 
> >
> >anyone want to start a thread on >>fave<< techno-samples?  Not only as a
> >positive distraction, but to flesh out some of some of the old skool knowledge
> >on this list?
> >
> >shivvers down your spine and a sublime grin to your face, and only a few of
> >your kind can even relate!
> >
> >"BASS for LOVE, love FOR BASS"
> >
> >peace,
> >q.
> >
> >
> >
> 
>  -
> Terri E. Young
> Department of Entomology
> University of California, Davis
> Davis, CA  95616


I like the beginning that song that starts:"He who controls the Spice
Controls the Universe" and it is by Eon not 808 State.  Anybody know
where to get that instrumental song that played in the Dance club of the
movie"Basic Instinct"??  I know (or think)it is by Eon but have not been
able to find it, its one of those gems I'm still trying to find.  Kinda
like a William Orbit Remix I still can't find.  Keep your Vibe Up, Fate

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 04:11:45 1998
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Subject: RE: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:12:00 -0800
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        Is this thread now turning into a witch-hunt.  The promoters
from
Nomad said their peace....  everything from this point on is now
personal.
 -==-=-=-=-

harumphf! I wish these rules were set out before the discussion started
maybe like a week before the event.
	
	1) OK, you get a week or so to question the motives of those who
throw an event and then AFTER that it's all personal & bets are off

	2) Accountability? Don't make me laugh!

	3)Community? Sounds like a profit margin to me.

Seriously though, if people are making a living off the crowd then maybe
accountibility or payback (not revenge - just giving back in some way)
isn't unreasonable. If ANY one isn't looking at their intentions &
motive then maybe they should, who knows, perhaps they'll figure a way
to make it work and not leave dozens of performers questioning whether
or not to return next time?

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 04:14:19 1998
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Noah Apodaca wrote:
> 
> Uncle Noah's favorite samples:
> 
> there are like 3 breaks from 'Security' by the The Beat Club that are used
> time and again and I love them every time...
> 
> of course, the break from 'Amen My Brother' by the Winstons and the
> Apache break are classics...
> 
> On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Q232de wrote:
> 
> >
> > anyone want to start a thread on >>fave<< techno-samples?  Not only as a
> > positive distraction, but to flesh out some of some of the old skool knowledge
> > on this list?
> >
> > shivvers down your spine and a sublime grin to your face, and only a few of
> > your kind can even relate!
> >
> > "BASS for LOVE, love FOR BASS"
> >
> > peace,
> > q.
> >
> >
> >
Security is one of my favorites songs, I think I listened to that song
to many times.  I think it was used more than KraftWerk was used in the
80's.  Kepp you Vibe Up, Fate

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 04:17:55 1998
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Subject: Re: Name that tune
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 19:59:22 -0800
x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997
From: Alex Rosenberg <alexr@goonsquad.spies.com>
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>yeah yeah, I'm old but I still like that techno bit "O Fortuna" by
>Apotheosis and "Spice" by 808 State (or was it Eon?).

Eon did "Spice." 808 State's best track was "Cubik." (Or perhaps "One in 
Ten" or "10 x 10" or whatever your favorite was. Certainly nothing off 
"Don Solaris.")

>I just had an old
>skool techno party last October and, boy, was there some crusty Steve
>Masters stuff there!

Live 105 screwed up. Steve Masters knew the future of music and they were 
betting on grunge instead. And just who is that wingnut that they have on 
Saturday nights now anyway?

+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Alexander M. Rosenberg <mailto:alexr@_goonsquad.spies.com> |
| Nobody cares what I say. Remove the underscore to mail me. |


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 05:09:28 1998
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From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: PLUR bashing (was promoter bashing)
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At 08:41 PM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote:
<snip>
>I definitely disagree with you on this one.  PLUR needs to be spread.  It
needs
***
propagated even.  not strewn.

<snipity>
>Feel Good Entertainment is dedicated to spreading the positive philosophy of
***
ouch...how 'bout pasting a massive BSP on this? re.re.respect?

<snip>
>ps. if any of you think that I am an eccentric lunatic with a God complex...
***
no... just "real".

peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 05:20:07 1998
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At 09:23 PM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I have become so tired of people beating each other over the head with the
>four pillars of PLUR the same way that christians have historically beat
>entire continents of unwitting 'converts' (i.e. convert or we'll kill you.)
>over the head with the bible.
***
my usage of "propegate" may be misinterperated in light of this paragraph. 
rough analogy.

peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 06:02:53 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:09:28 +0100
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From: moshe1@jps.net (Moshe Kasher)
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts
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At 02:45 AM 1/8/98 +0000, Faro wrote:
>>
>>> We are happy to provide any information which might help to
>>> alleviate any concerns anybody has with regards to what happened the
>>> night of the party.
>>
>>       Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the
>>rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a
>>party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put
>>our minds at ease.
>>
>>-Faro
>
>I second this motion.  Also, a clear idea of how many tickets were counted
>versus people unpaid would be very helpful.  Most of the "facts" given in
>your post are extremely vague.
>
>Thanks,
>Seth


what in gods name makes yall think you are entitled to this information?
it may be your scene but it wasnt your party. I think this thread is
getting ridicoulous, childish(case in point: rann d dreams post),and just
plain mean. It makes me sick and makes me not want to get this list for a
while.

your freind,moshe



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 07:31:37 1998
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This comment of mine was not necessarily directed to Nomad. It was to
all promoters.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

thenomad wrote:
> 
> Paul Hayden wrote:
> >
> > Katie Zitterbart wrote:
> >
> > > devil-raver hellhounds.  It makes them bad businesspeople - DUH
> > Raves are not a business. The only reason there is an entrance fee is
> > because nothing is ever free. Yes, it is good for promoters to make
> > money. I definetly would want a promoter to make money. I just hope
> > that  the money is not the only reason they are throwing the rave.
> >
> > A Warning To All Money Grubbin Promoters:
> >         Besides all the gangsters, assholes, jerks, and bad vibes at a party
> > there are RAVERS. A great majority of these ravers can sense the vibe of
> > any room just by walking into it. They can sense the vibe of another
> > person accross the room. They can sense the vibe of the promoters just
> > by being at the rave. If then vibe is screaming money, you may be able
> > to fool the gangsters, the assholes, the jerks and all the bad vibes,
> > but you can't fool the ravers. Just remember this next time you charge
> > us $25 to get into a party that is only worth a nickle.
> >
> > Love,
> > Paul*E*Wog
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Most artists and production people charge between two and three times as
> much on New Years Eve. Also, other services cost more because it is a
> major holiday. Sorry about the hefty price tag, but it was necessary.
> Depending on the party and the particular cost of putting it together we
> have charged anywhere from $7, $10, $12, $15 and $20.
> 
> Stacey @ Nomad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 07:47:02 1998
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I disagree. A lot of highly influencial people are on SFraves,
regardless if they post or not. There are promoters, rave moms, rave
dads, some very popular and well known ravers, DJs, and all of our posts
are accesible in an archive section of SFraves.
Just about anyone who is anyone in this scene is or has been on sfraves.
Paul*E*Wog

AnonEmuss Raver wrote:
>The reason is, is that not
> everyone reads sf-raves. Only a small 'lil chunk of our raving > community even knows about this whole situation.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 07:53:19 1998
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This thing about the mayan calender running out and the world
ending in the tear 2012 is just like the millineum computer bug.
In a thousand years they will look back on us and say we thought 
the world was coming to an end because we didnt make our computers
to last past the year 2000. Even though there are predictions
of doomsday and the world ending when our computers
try to work beyond the year 2000, they are speaking figuratively.
Same thing happened with the mayans. Some silly archeologist
on auyushuga found something about doomsday and took it too
literally.

At least that is how the foolish fish sees it

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish
Terri E. Young wrote:
> 
> Isn't the Maya prophesy subject to other non-destructive interpretations,
> such as infusion or recognition of "otherwordly" life forms in our society?
> This would drastically change civilization as we know it.  This theory also
> corresponds well to the astrology predictions concerning the age of aquarius
> - when pisces enters this sign.
> This is Mulder signing off ....
> hee hee
> My hope is that life will be different, maybe improved, but not over.
> 
> love, Terri
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 07:56:05 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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There is a little something called freedom of speech. And we are all
entitled to our say on whatever, whenever, as long as it does not harass
or cause physical or mental abuse to anyone or thing. If you don't like
the post, DON'T READ IT!!!! But there are quite a lot of people who are
interested in this post.
And to add to our rights as a raver and an american, there also is a
little something called "I can SUE for FALSE advertising" Since Origin
was legal, we could all do that, but we won't because we choose to keep
our problems within the scene. We choose to keep our problems in the
Autonomous Zone that we call a rave. We do NOT involve outside
authorities, therefore Nomad is lucky that they are part of this scene
and not another, because by now someone would have gotten together and
formed a law suit.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Moshe Kasher wrote:
> 
> what in gods name makes yall think you are entitled to this information?
> it may be your scene but it wasnt your party. I think this thread is
> getting ridicoulous, childish(case in point: rann d dreams post),and just
> plain mean. It makes me sick and makes me not want to get this list for a
> while.
> 
> your freind,moshe

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 07:57:25 1998
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Yes, I agree, but please do not over promote it, we don't want another
$5 COOL WORLD party full of people getting jumped, or stabbed, or stuff
stolen.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

inanna wrote:
> 
> You know, perhaps a free party would be a way to make amends for the
> hurt feelings here!  Nomad - this could be a great new beginning for
> you!  The pr opportunities are limited only by your imagination!
> 
> Diana

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 08:05:41 1998
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I though the date was 2012 December 21st not 23rd. Or am i mistaken?
I dunno I will ask Erik again.
I don't think i have enlightened myself by use of natural tryptamines
enough to know if i will mutate into the next plane of existance.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Terri E. Young wrote:
> 
> Isn't the Maya prophesy subject to other non-destructive interpretations,
> such as infusion or recognition of "otherwordly" life forms in our society?
> This would drastically change civilization as we know it.  This theory also
> corresponds well to the astrology predictions concerning the age of aquarius
> - when pisces enters this sign.
> This is Mulder signing off ....
> hee hee
> My hope is that life will be different, maybe improved, but not over.
> 
> love, Terri
> 
> >Larry Ching wrote:
> >
> >>  QUESTION for the twenty-something and younger folks on the list -
> >> do you expect to survive up to and past 2013 ? If not, and if the >
> reason's not too personal, why not? Expect the killer asteroid to hit?
> >
> >Since the Maya predicted a couple thousand years ago that the current
> >cycle of civilization would come to an end on December 23, 2012 (and
> >their calander STILL predicts solar eclipses and stuff with an accuracy
> >within, like, 40 SECONDS), I would have to say no, I don't expect to
> >be around in 2013.  But, then again, I'm out of your requested age
> >range, so maybe I'm just old and crochety.
> >
> >Looking for DJ's to spin at a party on Dec 22, 2012.  You will get paid.
> >
> >Steve.
> >
> >Only users lose drugs.
> >
> >--
> >And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
> >Before you buy:
> >http://www.compare.net/
> >Information is Power
> >
> >
> 
>  -
> Terri E. Young
> Department of Entomology
> University of California, Davis
> Davis, CA  95616

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 08:35:39 1998
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Hey Everyone!! I got a real neat idea. How about we work something out
with the city of San Francisco to do a raver parade.
We get floats with DJs and soud systems on them spinning records.
We get everyone dressed up or just showing up and all of us walk down
the streets giving away candy, necklaces, and drug information.
We pass out flyers with our mission statemnts on them and saying what a
rave is all about. 
What do you people think???

Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 08:42:43 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:42:32 EST
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Subject: NRR: this is neat...
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This has been on my parents refridgerator since i can remember, i definatly
think its worth reading

from an old ann landers:

    " This is a story about four people named Everybody, 
Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody. 
      There was an important job to be done and
 Everybody was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody 
could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got 
angry about that because it was Everybody's job. 
Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody 
realized that Everybody wouldn't do it. It ended up
 that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did 
what Anybody could have done."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 09:02:53 1998
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> QUESTION for the twenty-something and younger folks on the list -
>do you expect to survive up to and past 2013 ? If not, and if the
reason's
>not too personal, why not? Expect the killer asteroid to hit?

We are entering a new age of flowers in 2013 according to some native
american prophecies including those of the maya. It is nothing to fear.
It's a matter of timing frequency. Right now most of us live according to
the 12:60 frequency of the gregorian calendar. This has its roots in the
ancient civilization of babylon which existed around the time of the start
of the current Mayan great cycle ending in 2012. The 5200 year cycle began
in 3113 BC. The Babylonians were a patriarchal society and instituted the
12 month calendar as a way of disempowering the females who visibly
function according to 13 moons  a year. This was the system of time many
tribes of the planet were operating on before the proliferation of
patriearchal society.
   Later the 60 minute hour was instituted with the invention of the clock
which has evolved into much of our mechanized world, and we're paid by the
hour. 'Time is money' is a pretty ugly idea. I prefer to think of time as
art.
   The Maya were and are existing according to a 13:20 timing frequency
which is based natural planetary, lunar, solar, and galactic cycles. I
believe I will be around in 2013 because I am doing what I can to live
free of 12:60 gregorian corporatization. I hope to be outside the
structure when it falls down. 
   All you who are interested, just do a search on the web for 'mayan
calendar' and check out the dedicated sights. I offer mayan calendar
readings as well for anyone interested. I just need a birthdate.
   Has anyone noticed the raves being thrown with the mayan calendar in
their theme? Prosoy's Chi-Universal Fire or Koininea's 2012. Then there's
Hunab K'u-Mayan for the 'Only giver of movement and measure' and Baktun 13
which is the final 400 year stage of this present 5200 year cycle. I feel
this is a pretty important issue and that we have so much to learn from
these ancient people.
   




In Lake'ch (Mayan for 'I am another yourself')

    Robert / Jara







			     White Solar Mirror

                        </\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\>
                        </////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\>
                        <\\\\/////////\\\\\\\\\////>
                        <///\\\\//////\\\\\\////\\\>
                        <//////\\\\///\\\////\\\\\\>
                        </////////\///\\\/\\\\\\\\\>
                        <\\\\\\\\\/\\\///\/////////>
                        <\\\\\\////\\\///\\\\//////>
                        <\\\////\\\\\\//////\\\\///>
                        <////\\\\\\\\\/////////\\\\>
                        <\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////>
                        <\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 09:23:32 1998
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The Greatest Gift in the World       by   Og Mandino

I will live this day as if it is my last.

And what shall I do with last precious day which remains in my keeping?
First, I will seal up its container of life so that not one drop spills
itself upon the sand.  I will waste not a moment mourning yesterday's
misfortunes, yesterday's defeats, yesterday's aches of heart, for why
should I throw good after bad? Can sand flow upwards in the hour glass?
Will the sun rise where it sets and sets where it rises? Can I relieve 
the
errors of yesterday and right them? Can I call back yesterday's wounds 
and
make them whole? Can I become  younger than  yesterday? Can  I  take  
back
the  evil  that  was spoken?, the  blows that  were struck, the  pain 
that
was  caused?  No. Yesterday is buried forever and I will think of it no
more.

I will live this day as if it is my last.

And what then shall I do? Forgetting yesterday neither will I think of
tomorrow.  Why should I throw now after maybe ? Can tomorrow's sand flow
through  the glass  before  today's? Will the sun rise twice in the
morning? Can I perform tomorrow's deeds while standing in today's path? 
Can
I place tomorrow's gold in today's purse? Can tomorrow's child be born
today? Can tomorrow's death cast its shadow backwards and darken today's
joy? Should I concern myself over events I may never witness? Should I
torment myself with problems that may never come to pass? No! Tomorrow 
lies
buried with yesterday, and I will think of it no more.

I will live this day as if it were my last.

This day is all I have and these hours now my eternity.  I greet the
sunrise with cries of joy as a prisoner who is reprieved from death. I 
lift
mine arms with thanks for this priceless gift of a new day. So too, I 
will
beat upon my heart with gratitude as I consider all who greeted 
yesterday's
sunrise who are no longer with the living today.  I am indeed a fortunate
man and today's hours are but a bonus, undeserved. Why have I been 
allowed
to live this extra day when others, far better than I, have departed? Is 
it
that they have accomplished their purpose while mine is yet to be 
achieved?
Is this another opportunity for me to become the man I know I can be? Is
there a purpose in nature? Is this my day to excel?

I will live this day as if it were my last.

I have but one life and life is naught but a measurement of time. When I
waste one I destroy the other. If I waste today I destroy the last page 
of
my life. Therefore, each hour of this day will I cherish for it can never
return. It cannot be banked today to be withdrawn on the morrow, for who
can trap the wind? Each minute of this day will I grasp with both hands 
and
fondle with love for it's value is beyond price. What dying man can
purchase another breath though he willingly give all his gold? What price
dare I place on the hours ahead? I will make them priceless.

I will live this day as if it is my last.

I will avoid with fury the killers of time. Procrastination I will 
destroy
with action; doubt I will bury under faith; fear I will dismember with
confidence.  Where there are idle mouths, I will listen not; where there
are idle hands I will linger not; where there are idle bodies I will 
visit
not. Henceforth I know to court idleness is to steal food, clothing and
warmth from those I love. I am not a thief. I am a man of love and today 
is
my last chance to prove my love and greatness.

I will live this day as if it were my last.

The duties of today I shall fulfill today.  Today, I shall love my
children while they are young; tomorrow they will be gone, and so will I.
Today I shall embrace my woman with sweet kisses; tomorrow she will be
gone, and so will I. Today, I shall lift up a friend in need; tomorrow he
will no longer cry for help, nor will I hear his cries.  Today, I shall
give myself in sacrifice and work; tomorrow I will have nothing to give,
and there will be none to receive.

I will live this day as if it is my last.

And if it is my last, it will be my greatest monument.  This day I will
make the best day of my life. This day I will drink every minute to its
full. I will savour it's taste and give thanks. I will make every hour
count and each minute I will trade only for something of value. I will
labour harder than ever before and push my muscles until they cry for
relief, and then I will continue. I will make more calls than ever 
before.
 Each minute of today will be more fruitful than hours of
yesterday. My last must be my best.

I will live this day as if it is my last.   And if it is not, I shall 
fall
to my knees and give thanks.


There's more than one truth out there in the sea

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 12:33:21 1998
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From: "ID W" <idw@hotmail.com>
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Subject: nomad, and the like!
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Hello all,

time to put in my 3.938215 cents(inflation ya know :^) ) in on this 
whole -know that we're mad-  :^) situation. 

A.) Nomad, shit happens, but organization really helps, you basically 
have downgraded yourself by the immature posts and have probably 
thrashed most of your credibility to the list, which may cause more 
damage than you think, I wish you luck on recovering any respect to your 
name if you desire to. Hope you are happy with the crowd you will most 
likely draw in the future.

B.) Vlad, um nope, in cyberspace YOU ARE GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT, 
yep it's screwed, deal with it, oh, also, nice attempt to push feel good 
entertainment. with this incident, but here's one more knock at your 
fucked (this is merely an opinion expressed by me, you don't like it, 
so. it's a free country, and so is my internet access :^) )production 
company, I happen to know that you(and coolworld for that matter) in 
your business dealings are very difficult to deal with when it comes to 
keeping to what you agree upon(times, money, conditions), due to the 
fact that I personally know a vendor that has had to deal with you 
people.

(to whom it may concern, you know who you are) 

Who do you people think you are, You think that people on this list are 
so blind to the BS that you post so often, well maybe some are, not me 
at least, but you will get the "witch hunt" posts (some of them more 
intelligent than others) if you present a reason, or give us reason to 
believe that you are taking, rather than giving to our community, you're 
going to get a grand on-line spotlight in your face, so that we may 
question you to the fullest. Remember this is one of the risks you take 
in your attempt to put on a public event. 

Go ahead try to rape our community, enjoy the money you make, hope it 
was worth the cost of your heart and soul. I will survive! Many of us 
will, we will go on, some of us enlightened, others lost in your bull 
shit that you try to feed that is no different that the spam from Cyber 
Promotions, or the force feed media we receive from the boob tube each 
day. Both good and bad karma will return to you.I can go to sleep w/o 
that kind of guilt, can you?

I look at raves as an escape (I'll even go so far as to say they are a 
parody) from the mindless, unthinking media driven culture which exists 
all around us, which I see in the TV we watch, the clubs I've been to, 
and many of these massives which are going on these days.

-idw
"If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do Humanitarians eat?"
idw@hotmail.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 13:03:59 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:32:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........)))))))))))
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Jan. 17th                The Trance & Jungle Facotry



          Vertigo



										           
Thomas Trouble

			B.A.S.S Cru

		     Stareyes
 

          Rinse



													Flux

                         and possibly others





       trip-chill room



		      speAkeR  "23"





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 13:23:57 1998
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From: "Mark Carey" <xchan_gamer@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Digital Be-In Review (kinda in beteween long and short)
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hey everybody,
I just got home from the Be-in over at 1015 Folsom,SF. I had a blast. 
The music was flowin, and so was I to the Beat. Met some new peeps, 
What's up Nick, Dan, and James, and that one girl with overalls goin 
nuts on the dance floor and smilin' all silly like. If you were that 
girl your just cool, what ever people say I know for a fact that a good 
vibe is contagious and you were definitely a carrier. On a side bar to 
that guy who kept bringing me water on the dance floor thanx and mad 
props. There was a quite a few obvious non-ravers, but a fair amount 
representin' scene. Hey byroni I was lookin for you with the white 
t-shirt and the letter b on your cap, but no find.

Michael David(I think that was his name) was spinnin some phat 
rekkids.Just when my body wanted to give out he would break out with 
some groovie transition an build up to an outstanding hypnotic beat. 
The Techno trance room upstairs was pretty cool but by the time the 
music got good the floor was too crowded to dance. Istayed mainly in the 
main room(that sounded dumb, oh well). I hope everybody had as good a 
time as I did!

Hey BBong did they ever let your 20 year old friend in? Apparently the 
21+ rule was in full force. However good news was I went expecting to 
pay 15 bones but the cover was only 10 bucks woo hoo!!!
That $5 bought me an extra Red Bull($3.50-ouch)and almost a water($2.25- 
double ouch) to go with it, yeah right.

I am giving this review of sober and sound mind, no drugs or alkihol 
tonight. Actually No drug's for two and a half years (blatant patting 
myself on the back) The hard part about staying awake is drinking a 
bunch of red bull's (lots of caffiene and metabolism boosters) and stay 
hydrated. 

Well my body wants take my brain out and have shot for makin me dance 
til it hurts all over and believe me right now I'm in serious ouchie 
land. I still wide awake but I should probably crash now. Hope to see 
some of you at Happy Kidz=) 

L8

Mark <><
 aka Mook (this is my weekend email service)

PS where and when's that meeting place again



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 17:32:59 1998
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To: "AnonEmuss Raver" <anonemuss98@hotmail.com>, hernancz@sirius.com,
  rayvonie@ix.netcom.com
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
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flipping thru my mail... 

What is this crap... sheesh folks... you think f**k makes a point...  

Wake up.. and BE NICE... 

-SugeR

TO QUOTE.... 

>are you just the STUPIDEST FUCKING PROMOTER IN THE FUCKIN WORLD?!??!?! 
>it was a fucking joke. I am aware of the fucking law. If I get in 
>trouble then I get in fuckin trouble, but don't you fuckin talk down to 
>me!
>
>"YOU FUCKING MORON! YOU FUCKING GROW UP!
>AND FROM FUCKING NOW ON, YOU THINK BEFORE YOU FUCKING SPEAK!"
>
>you're no better than any of us VLAD, so don't act/speak like you are! 
>
>WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO TALK TO ME LIKE THIS?
>
>oh PLURRY ass promoter vlad, you should fucking follow what you fuckin 
>preach! god damn you, be happy, you've seriously pissed me off! but now 
>I feel better. =)
>
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 17:36:40 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:39:23 -0800
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From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts
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Folks... as much as i am against Big-Promoter-Expolitation... i think Moshe
makes a valid point... 

It is none of our business what this person made... $$

was that party fun... was there a good vibe... where the people friendly..... 

these are the things we should be concerned about right.... ?

-SugeR



At 10:09 PM 1/9/98 +0100, you wrote:
>At 02:45 AM 1/8/98 +0000, Faro wrote:
>>>
>>>> We are happy to provide any information which might help to
>>>> alleviate any concerns anybody has with regards to what happened the
>>>> night of the party.
>>>
>>>       Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the
>>>rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a
>>>party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put
>>>our minds at ease.
>>>
>>>-Faro
>>
>>I second this motion.  Also, a clear idea of how many tickets were counted
>>versus people unpaid would be very helpful.  Most of the "facts" given in
>>your post are extremely vague.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Seth
>
>
>what in gods name makes yall think you are entitled to this information?
>it may be your scene but it wasnt your party. I think this thread is
>getting ridicoulous, childish(case in point: rann d dreams post),and just
>plain mean. It makes me sick and makes me not want to get this list for a
>while.
>
>your freind,moshe
>
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 18:28:25 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:27:01 -0800 (PST)
From: aminita <aminita@linex.com>
To: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980110093923.0093fc50@pop.webcom.com>
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So I think SugeR is right to an extent......we should be concerned with
everything stated below but when our scene doesn't take care of itself we
need to start taking care of the scene ourselves......and that's what this
commotion is about.   
my friends were personally screwed over by them and I only hope to god
that Tom and Stacey redeem themselves cause I thought they were chill
when we kicked
it in the past......but I also know that my friends needed that money to
live on and are stressing now.....ya know?

aminita


On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, SugeR wrote:

> 
> 
> Folks... as much as i am against Big-Promoter-Expolitation... i think Moshe
> makes a valid point... 
> 
> It is none of our business what this person made... $$
> 
> was that party fun... was there a good vibe... where the people friendly..... 
> 
> these are the things we should be concerned about right.... ?
> 
> -SugeR
> 
> 
> 
> At 10:09 PM 1/9/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >At 02:45 AM 1/8/98 +0000, Faro wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> We are happy to provide any information which might help to
> >>>> alleviate any concerns anybody has with regards to what happened the
> >>>> night of the party.
> >>>
> >>>       Another promoter on the list went out of their way, and gave the
> >>>rundown on recipts.. cost.. and net profit (or lack there of) for a
> >>>party. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do the same and help put
> >>>our minds at ease.
> >>>
> >>>-Faro
> >>
> >>I second this motion.  Also, a clear idea of how many tickets were counted
> >>versus people unpaid would be very helpful.  Most of the "facts" given in
> >>your post are extremely vague.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Seth
> >
> >
> >what in gods name makes yall think you are entitled to this information?
> >it may be your scene but it wasnt your party. I think this thread is
> >getting ridicoulous, childish(case in point: rann d dreams post),and just
> >plain mean. It makes me sick and makes me not want to get this list for a
> >while.
> >
> >your freind,moshe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

	




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 18:29:13 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:28:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Reply-To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Happy Kids!!!
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Okay folks, this is one of those posts where your Uncle Noah just lays 
shit down for you.  Let me start at the beginning:

Hi!  I'm Uncle Noah.  I'm a Disk Jockey.  I spin records at raves.  
Breakbeat, mostly.  I got booked to spin at this groovy party called 
Happy Kids that's going to be happening tonight from 8pm-4am.  I'll be 
there with a bunch of great grooves to keep you movin!

"So what do I have to do, Uncle Noah?" you may be asking.  

Here's the deal and I'm sorry to do this to you but this is just the way 
it is:  You gotta get your ass outta the house and get to the party!  I'm 
opening the night from 8pm-930pm.  So if you wanna hear some of these 
tracks, you gotta get your ass in gear and get down there when the doors 
open!

I'm really looking forward to seeing you kids and I'm really looking 
forward to spinning records for you, so all you gotta do is GET DOWN 
THERE and get your groove on!!!!

Peace!  See you in a few hours!

-Uncle Noah
(who just got a new Fatboy Slim remix yesterday and spun it before Jesse 
Brooks did at my club, so when Jesse put it on people kept coming up to 
me saying, "Isn't this that record you just played?" :D :D :D)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 18:50:03 1998
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 10 Jan 1998 10:49:55 PDT
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:49:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doreen <COSTAD@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Before techno?
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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before techno, i listened to and STILL love the following
-led zeppelin
-jimi hendrix (aka god)
-the beatles (mainly 67-70..the psychadelic years)
- a wise variety of other 70's classic rock
but i also like other stuff like U2, sublime, and motown (four tops, 
otis redding).  i've even made a few mixed tapes of classical and 
opera, so i'm pretty openminded i think...except i close my mind to 
country music for personal reasons.  and i mean country music on a 
whole, there are  FEW exceptions (kenny rogers).

doreen

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 18:51:56 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:15:49 -0800 (PST)
From: shira <aminita@linex.com>
Reply-To: shira <aminita@linex.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts
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So I seem to have heard straight from the horses mouth that Nomad
paid Dj Demitri (or however you spell his name) and ungodly $10,000 for
his coming out.......now don't think sound should of at least been paid
before the DJ's b/c woithout sound you ain't got no show!!!!!

Or as was stated before you should have enough to cover your ass if shit
doesn't go down as expected........shit happens.....should expect the
worst and hope for the best......



aminita

	





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 19:01:50 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:59:24 -0800 (PST)
From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: happy happy happy kids
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oh to have a camera sometimes.
yesterday I was on the bus when I saw this young
girl, about 8 she was all decked out with her
psychadelic vinyl happy bears back sack and I noticed
the back of her shoes said Happy kids(is this how the
party got christened?) anyway I thought a picture of
her would have made for a great flyer.

I have to say I am totally jealous of children's
fashion.  Why can't I buy a jumpsuit with dinosaurs
on them?  I swear the coolest clothes I see sometimes
are for ages 1-4

I am looking forward happy kids tonight.  I enjoyed
the party they threw down in Monterey. 

Unfortunately I don't think I'll make it for Uncle
Noah's set as I am working till 6:00 pm today and I
need to nap seeing as I work from 7:00 am till 3:00
pm tomorrow.

So look for me tonight and say hi- i'll be the fuzzy
one. :)

pjf




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 19:33:01 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:32:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: bABy HueY <poobear@hotmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Name that tune
In-Reply-To: <19980109184623.5441.qmail@hotmail.com>
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     Nope..it's not from Salt & Pepa...but I don't know who from??



On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, bABy HueY wrote:

> I personally have never herad it,  and I'm as always no help to you, 
> however, I really liked the origonal (from what it sounds like)  
> "We like the cars, The cars that go BOOM...
> With Tigra, and Bunny cuz we like the BOOM"  -Salt'n Pepa I believe
> My ass is shakin' now FellaZ!!! :P
> Later,
> Danny
> 
> >From sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri Jan  9 
> 10:42:27 1998
> >Received: (qmail 17579 invoked by uid 6000); 9 Jan 1998 18:42:20 -0000
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> >Received: from [192.86.155.91] by send1a; Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:41:53 PST
> >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:41:53 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Name that tune
> >To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
> >Precedence: bulk
> >
> >First of all, hello to anybody who might remember me from my previous
> >incarnation on the list - I'm back!
> >
> >My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the day:
> >Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark jungle song with this
> >sample:
> > "I like the bass ...
> >   I like the bass that goes BOOM"
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Matt.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 19:43:29 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:43:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Sfraves <Sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: NRR  Tahoe Forecast (fwd) To Reagan (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980110114005.13631G-100000@value.net>
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  Disclaimer:....I'm not forwarding this to the list so I can get flamed
for posting another chain letter...I just would like to lighten up the
mood a bit..so, people (especially the women) read this and I hope you get
a couple chuckles out of it!..Have a great weekend everybody!!
                                              love-Reagan




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:34:34 EST
From: Artjet123 <Artjet123@aol.com>
To: raygun@value.net
Subject: Re: NRR  Tahoe Forecast (fwd) To Reagan

                        Chain Letter for Women Only

This letter was started by a woman like yourself in the hopes of bringing
relief to other tired and discontented women.  Unlike most chain letters, this
one doesn't cost you anything. Just send a copy of this letter to five of your
friends who are equally frustrated. Then, bundle up your husband or partner,
send him to the woman whose name appears at the top of the list, add your name
to the bottom of the list.  When your name comes to the top of the list, you
will receive 16,877 men. One of them is bound to be a hell of a lot better
than the one you already have.  Do not break the chain. One woman broke the
chain and got her old son-of-a bitch back again.  At this writing, a friend of
mine had already received 384 men. They burried her yesterday, but it took
three undertakers to get the smile off her face, and two days to get her legs
togeether so they could close the coffin. Hurry and send this letter so my
name can move up fast!!!!.  Your Aunt Nellie.       


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 19:56:46 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:56:42 -0800 (PST)
From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
cc: bABy HueY <poobear@hotmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Name that tune
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On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Reagan Reid wrote:

> 
> 
>      Nope..it's not from Salt & Pepa...but I don't know who from??
> 
> > I personally have never herad it,  and I'm as always no help to you, 
> > however, I really liked the origonal (from what it sounds like)  
> > "We like the cars, The cars that go BOOM...
> > With Tigra, and Bunny cuz we like the BOOM"  -Salt'n Pepa I believe
> > My ass is shakin' now FellaZ!!! :P

Lil' Trimm or something like that I believe...




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 20:02:33 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:59:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Raver Parade
In-Reply-To: <34B732D5.A4D3BEFB@geocities.com>
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this is a cute idea in an ideal world
but do we REALLY want to hand out drug information to people omnn the
streets? 
little kids are gonna love the colorful floats and all the candyravers...
if they're handed a poamphlet on drugs.. 
well anyway 
you get my idea.
xo
lara

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Hey Everyone!! I got a real neat idea. How about we work something out
> with the city of San Francisco to do a raver parade.
> We get floats with DJs and soud systems on them spinning records.
> We get everyone dressed up or just showing up and all of us walk down
> the streets giving away candy, necklaces, and drug information.
> We pass out flyers with our mission statemnts on them and saying what a
> rave is all about. 
> What do you people think???
> 
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 20:22:19 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts
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On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, SugeR wrote:

> 
> 
> Folks... as much as i am against Big-Promoter-Expolitation... i think Moshe
> makes a valid point... 
> 
> It is none of our business what this person made... $$
> 
> was that party fun... was there a good vibe... where the people friendly..... 
> 
> these are the things we should be concerned about right.... ?

It really depends IMO. If you are throwing a party for friends, 
absolutely. If you are running a business, and being accused of failing to
meet financial obligations, it is a bit different.

You have to look at the series of events and the order in which they
occured:

1) Vortebrand posted that someone received a bad check from Nomad. 

2) Various other ruminations from other folks about people not getting
   paid. I don't particularly attach any importance to that portion
   of the rumor mill.

3) Nomad posts about their losses for the evening.

4) Again, the question is posed about why they wrote one or more people
   bad checks.

5) Nomad responds, stating that everyone is getting paid, arrangements 
   are being made, etc.


Now, being the admittedly suspicious person I am, I find items 3-5 very
peculiar. 

Nobody, at any time, questioned their losses for the evening prior to
Nomad posting about them. What I find odd about that particular
chain of events, is how they answered the question of why they were
writing someone a bad check. They choose to respond with a tale about how
much money they lost. 

So, given this response from them in answer to the question of why they
were writing bad checks, why do some of you feel it is so out of line to
inquire about those losses at that time? *THAT* was their answer to the
question. At that time they mentioned *NOTHING* about making sure people
got paid, or addressing the issue of the bad check that I can recall. 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 20:54:29 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:22:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, dhchung@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........))))))))))) (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:32:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........)))))))))))

Jan. 17th                The Trance & Jungle Facotry



          Vertigo



										           
Thomas Trouble

			B.A.S.S Cru

		     Stareyes
 

          Rinse



													Flux

                         and possibly others





       trip-chill room



		      speAkeR  "23"

Limited amount of pre-sales only at the TranceFactory)))))))))))))))))




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 21:06:08 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:04:46 -0800 (PST)
From: aminita <aminita@linex.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: South africa vs. SF scene
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Thanks Monty, apreciate the props.......after coming back from south
africa I have been so dissapointed in our scene.  

everyone looks to us as what's supposed to be one of the best
scenes.....and our scnene sux!
Everyone running everyone else out of buisness.

There they have awesome clubs, dope music, Dj's with style and no EGO's!
All wonderful people to talk to. Not that are DJ's are so bad i jsut wish
they were friendlier. 

The scene is also a lot older over there.....average age is around 20....I
mean I did see some 18 year olds but mainly 20 year olds around the rave
clubs. The actual raves though are around 17 years of age......but they
are ENORMOUS!!!!!   ranging from 6,000 people to 30,000.  For New years
30,000 kids showed up for the capetown Rave. WOW.....although I do like
our undregrounds....when they happen that is.  

For those of you who have been to static on Tuesday nights.....that place
has the same good vibe as the ones in south africa....except there were
more peole in south africa......packed beyond belief!!!

That was also because there were about 6 clubs all in the same vacinity.
Three housey techno ones right by each other and the hip hop ones down the
way......and an ice cream place and candy store downstairs that sold
cigarettes....(healthy idea eh?...hehe...JK). it was a great set up.  The
one club was a little cheesy but totally bumped......then Krypton-the gay
club- but all ravers went cause their system rocked so hard....it was the
best club in town till my friend set up the resident DJ's next door at a
bar called 96 degrees. Also had some dope DJ's.

Then they have an internet cafe that throws parties and has weekly live
audio spin outs...we kinda do....theirs is better.   




i just thought the scenen wa dope along with all the poepel and the music
they like over there......hard house....my favorite.  :) 

if you wanna check out the spin out it is:
http://www.milkyway.co.za/spinout



On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Tekno313 wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 1/10/98 10:31:31 AM, you wrote:
> 
> <<.we should be concerned with
> everything stated below but when our scene doesn't take care of itself we
> need to start taking care of the scene ourselves......>>
> 
> THANK YOU!
> --Monty
> 

	




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 21:25:11 1998
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From: Sharif Torpis <storpis@crl.com>
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Subject: Re: Name that tune
To: alexr@goonsquad.spies.com (Alex Rosenberg)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:16:23 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <199801100356.TAA24514@scv1.apple.com> from "Alex Rosenberg" at Jan 9, 98 07:59:22 pm
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> Eon did "Spice." 808 State's best track was "Cubik." (Or perhaps "One in 
> Ten" or "10 x 10" or whatever your favorite was. Certainly nothing off 
> "Don Solaris.")

Pacific.

> Live 105 screwed up. Steve Masters knew the future of music and they were 
> betting on grunge instead. And just who is that wingnut that they have on 
> Saturday nights now anyway?

But Steve Masters was program director. He *was* the Live 105 that screwed up.
As for the wingnut, Axelson is one of the few doing great things for Bay Area
radio these days. Where else can you hear those wacky Air kids from France?
Listen before judging.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 21:36:34 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:33:22 -0800
To: loveworks@sfstation.com
From: nori <iron@construct.net>
Subject: Loveworks & Co.
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	start your new year off with a saturday night disco adventure at
	the one-eleven minna street gallery, january tenth (this saturday).
	
	featuring dj's matt valenz + dani
	the most bad-ass house music on the planet
	
	five clams keeps the love + support in groove
	http://www.sfstation.com/clubs/loveworks.htm

	new production, sound, energy + love by:
	Loveworks & Co....dianna, dani, mark, nori + matt
	sponsors:	Other Records UK  	unknown@dircon.co.uk
			sfstation.com		http://sfstation.com
			4sound Productions

	next Loveworks, january twenety-third, matt valenz's birthday event!
	stay in tune and stay in love...

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 21:42:21 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:42:00 -0800 (PST)
From: SpazzCadet <spazzcadet@yahoo.com>
Subject: DOC TONITE!!!!!!!!!
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HELO kIdZ!!!
who is going to doc tonite please go and support my friends here are
the info lines
(415)436-0714
(510)407-1208

email me to see whos going also TONY UTOPIA DJ BIZZ AND MORE are gonna
be there so please go to Little House in the City its a new SF location 

SPAZZCADET

lady linz i will see ya there!!!!!!!!  I LOVE YOU!!!!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 22:14:59 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:10:48 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Harmony <ascend@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: About This whole Nomad Thread...
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First off, I am not taking sides with anyone on this matter... I have my
faith in people in general to do the right thing in the end, and let's just
leave it at that...

The reason I am posting this letter is to ask all of you to please take
this issue to a private forum. If you have a question, complaint, or even a
supportive comment for the Nomads, send it to them privately. What good
does it do to post this kinda stuff publicly for over 10 days in a row? It
is almost like when I was in high school, there was always this "popularity
contest" going on. Well bitching (repeatedly) about others and their
faults, mistakes, or misfortunes doesn't make you look more popular. I feel
it is ok to bring something up once, maybe even twice, but after ten days
of bitching about a NYE party... it gets old.

It is now Jan 10th, it is not NYE... Go to a party this weekend (there are
a lot of good ones going on) and dance your butts off. And please take this
to a private forum. Thanks in advance!

Peace and love,

Greg = )

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 23:22:50 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:25:36 -0800
To: Harmony <ascend@ix.netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: About This whole Nomad Thread...
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At 2:10 PM -0800 1/10/98, Harmony wrote:
>First off, I am not taking sides with anyone on this matter... I have my
>faith in people in general to do the right thing in the end, and let's just
>leave it at that...
>
>The reason I am posting this letter is to ask all of you to please take
>this issue to a private forum. If you have a question, complaint, or even a
>supportive comment for the Nomads, send it to them privately. What good
>does it do to post this kinda stuff publicly for over 10 days in a row? It
>is almost like when I was in high school, there was always this "popularity
>contest" going on. Well bitching (repeatedly) about others and their
>faults, mistakes, or misfortunes doesn't make you look more popular. I feel
>it is ok to bring something up once, maybe even twice, but after ten days
>of bitching about a NYE party... it gets old.
>
>It is now Jan 10th, it is not NYE... Go to a party this weekend (there are
>a lot of good ones going on) and dance your butts off. And please take this
>to a private forum. Thanks in advance!
>
>Peace and love,
>
>Greg = )

I would counter ask everyone, if you do not feel satisfied with what you
have been told, continue to talk about Nomad.  If Nomad had done the right
thing there would be no topic at all.

Don;t let others dictate the conversation you decide is important.

I for one think that given the heanous nature of everything that went on
NYE, that the list has overall been very calm.  I hope things continue in
this vein since people are learning so much by this very important
conversation.

Just because there are negative aspects does not make the entire
conversation negative or *bitchy*.

Please continue if any of you wish, I think it is high time, and I think
that this is invaluable to the list.

Use your filter if you no longer wish to see Nomad messages.  The delete
key works as well.

Peace & conversation,
John

"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 10 23:34:39 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:34:18 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
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Subject: Re: Raver Parade
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Yeah I get what you're saying, but i mean, we don't hand out pamphlets
to kids! I mean like adults & teenagers. People are gonna do drugs
either way. It's best that they do them safley than unsafley. That's the
idea behind that "Just say KNOW" campaign that I've been seeing drug
pamphlets from at all the parties latley.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

lara at vibe.org wrote:
> 
> this is a cute idea in an ideal world
> but do we REALLY want to hand out drug information to people omnn the
> streets?
> little kids are gonna love the colorful floats and all the candyravers...
> if they're handed a poamphlet on drugs..
> well anyway
> you get my idea.
> xo
> lara
> 
> On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > Hey Everyone!! I got a real neat idea. How about we work something out
> > with the city of San Francisco to do a raver parade.
> > We get floats with DJs and soud systems on them spinning records.
> > We get everyone dressed up or just showing up and all of us walk down
> > the streets giving away candy, necklaces, and drug information.
> > We pass out flyers with our mission statemnts on them and saying what a
> > rave is all about.
> > What do you people think???
> >
> > Love,
> > Paul*E*Wog
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 00:08:21 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:05:19 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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> B.) Vlad, um nope, in cyberspace YOU ARE GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT, yep
> it's screwed, deal with it

Well.. if that's true... Then based on your comments below... You are guilty
of being a real big JERK!!!!

> oh, also, nice attempt to push feel good
> entertainment. with this incident, but here's one more knock at your
> fucked (this is merely an opinion expressed by me, you don't like it,
> so. it's a free country, and so is my internet access :^) )production
> company, I happen to know that you(and coolworld for that matter) in
> your business dealings are very difficult to deal with when it comes to
> keeping to what you agree upon(times, money, conditions), due to the
> fact that I personally know a vendor that has had to deal with you
> people.

Shit... Well bring on the details...  Lets bring it into the open.  I have
nothing to hide about my business integrity.  If Your friend has a problem
with working with me.. well then we can put an end to this situation
immediately.  I certainly have never had anyone come up to me and say to my
face that they don't like how i handle my business organization.  But since
you brought it up, why don't you give US ALL some more details on what the
problem seems to be.  It is obvious that You must be up on all the latest
gossip.. so please fill US in on what you heard about how hard it is to deal
with me when it comes to business arraignments.

> (to whom it may concern, you know who you are)

Actually... I doubt that anyone except you knows who you're referring to.
The rest of us that don't live in your head have to guess what you're
talking about.

> Who do you people think you are, You think that people on this list are
> so blind to the BS that you post so often, well maybe some are, not me
> at least, but you will get the "witch hunt" posts (some of them more
> intelligent than others) if you present a reason, or give us reason to
> believe that you are taking, rather than giving to our community, you're
> going to get a grand on-line spotlight in your face, so that we may
> question you to the fullest. Remember this is one of the risks you take
> in your attempt to put on a public event.

WOW...  That's a real mouthful.  This type of attitude truly chaps my hide.
Who has the right to decide?  <give us reason to believe that you are
taking, rather than giving to our community>  and what about the other way
around... Will there be some sort of props given the the people that give
more than they take from this community...  or is that not even an aspect of
your perspective.  And by what definitions do you plan on evaluating these
people that you talk about?  And what about this Community you speak of, are
these people immediately ostracized from your community upon the slightest
possibility of wrongdoing?  If so.. then who would want to be a part of this
fake community... when each of us if full of our own faults.

> Go ahead try to rape our community, enjoy the money you make, hope it
> was worth the cost of your heart and soul.

So this is your basis for your argument... MONEY.  Well maybe one day you
will reach a point of personal enlightenment when you realize that money is
just a tool to get a job done, and not an end product of any means.  Since
we live in a monetary society, and money is required to live as much as air
and water.. you can more or less cross it out of your equation... because it
becomes a fundamental constant.    Talking about money is a joke... MONEY
makes the world go round and at the same time it is the root of all evil.
Vision is a goal... Money is a tool.  The sooner you learn this, the happier
your life will be.

> I will survive! Many of us
> will, we will go on, some of us enlightened, others lost in your bull
> shit that you try to feed that is no different that the spam from Cyber
> Promotions, or the force feed media we receive from the boob tube each
> day. Both good and bad karma will return to you.I can go to sleep w/o
> that kind of guilt, can you?

YOU WHO?  Im still trying to figure out who you are talking to?

> I look at raves as an escape (I'll even go so far as to say they are a
> parody) from the mindless, unthinking media driven culture which exists
> all around us, which I see in the TV we watch, the clubs I've been to,
> and many of these massives which are going on these days.

Raves aren't an escape from our chaotic culture... they are a reflection of
today's culture.  If you want an escape.. go camping in the mountains, and
commune with nature.  Don't go to a loud, and noisy party or club were
people are just a sample group of today's youth, music, and dance culture.
Raves and clubs are for fun, for dancing,  and making friends... but they
are not and escape from today's reality... they are today's reality.
Keep it Real.    Vlad


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 00:23:22 1998
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To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>, Harmony <ascend@ix.netcom.com>
From: Ed Korthof <ek@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: About This whole Nomad Thread...
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At 03:25 PM 1/10/98 -0800, John S. Lee wrote:
>At 2:10 PM -0800 1/10/98, Harmony wrote:
[snip]
>>The reason I am posting this letter is to ask all of you to please take
>>this issue to a private forum. If you have a question, complaint, or even a
[snip]

>I would counter ask everyone, if you do not feel satisfied with what you
>have been told, continue to talk about Nomad.  If Nomad had done the right
>thing there would be no topic at all.
>
>Don;t let others dictate the conversation you decide is important.
[snip]

Well, talk about what you want -- but at this point, I think talking about
Nomad isn't going to fix anything, though it will spread negative vibes.
I'd much rather hear & read a more positive discussion.

I've read enough of the thread that I never plan on going to a Nomad party
(unless I hear from vortexbrad & others that Nomad did ultimately pay).
Hearing more about the incident isn't going to make me any more or less
convinced -- it does make the rave scene seem a lot less friendly, though.

This 'space,' sfraves, is what we make it.  I hope we choose to make it more
than just a forum for bashing shady promoters & others.  It's good that
folks like me (new to the scene) get a warning about them, but we've gone
far past the point of simply giving warnings.

Ed, interested in raves going on tomorrow


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 01:19:18 1998
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From: "Mark Carey" <xchan_gamer@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Name that tune
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I'm sad to say I actually know this but the group's name is:

 L'Trimm

Mark<><
  aka Mook

Raygun said:
>
>
>     Nope..it's not from Salt & Pepa...but I don't know who from??
>
>
>
>On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, bABy HueY wrote:
>
>> I personally have never herad it,  and I'm as always no help to you, 
>> however, I really liked the origonal (from what it sounds like)  
>> "We like the cars, The cars that go BOOM...
>> With Tigra, and Bunny cuz we like the BOOM"  -Salt'n Pepa I believe
>> My ass is shakin' now FellaZ!!! :P
>> Later,
>> Danny
>> 
>> >From sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri Jan  9 
>> 10:42:27 1998
>> >Received: (qmail 17579 invoked by uid 6000); 9 Jan 1998 18:42:20 
-0000
>> >Received: (qmail 17567 invoked from network); 9 Jan 1998 18:42:19 
-0000
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>> >  by taz.hyperreal.org with SMTP; 9 Jan 1998 18:42:19 -0000
>> >Message-ID: <19980109184153.10254.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>
>> >Received: from [192.86.155.91] by send1a; Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:41:53 
PST
>> >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:41:53 -0800 (PST)
>> >From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
>> >Subject: Name that tune
>> >To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
>> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> >Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
>> >Precedence: bulk
>> >
>> >First of all, hello to anybody who might remember me from my 
previous
>> >incarnation on the list - I'm back!
>> >
>> >My non-promoter-bashing-related question for the day:
>> >Does anybody know the name/artist for a dark jungle song with this
>> >sample:
>> > "I like the bass ...
>> >   I like the bass that goes BOOM"
>> >
>> >Thanks!
>> >Matt.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 01:43:17 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: the nomad ordeal
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:30:49 -0800
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I was visiting from Seattle and was in a record store in Berkeley
when a guy came in asking if that store had sold presales for Origin.
He asked if I had gone. I said "no." He explained what was up.

Of course, It could have just been a matter of coincidence...but I feel
that if a person from Seattle (12 hours driving time away) has heard
what's going on...pretty much everyone in San Francisco is probably
aware of what happened....

I'm not saying you guys shouldn't discuss it.....and if people 
were ripped off , they definitely deserve retribution.....

But what goes around comes around....and if Nomad really are
treating people badly, and throwing bad parties, they will go down.....

A lot of people seem to feel it's important to spread the word about
Nomad being all screwed up...but it seems to me that their events
speak for themself...if a promoter wants money, you can tell that in
their event......from the flyer to the music to everything about it....

People will surely notice a bad promoter and stop attending their 
events even if they haven't been warned....

-kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 02:24:47 1998
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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:43:36 -0800
From: thenomad <thenomad@pacbell.net>
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I am going to post one final letter. Granted, I am not as well versed on
the finer points of composing and disecting all these posts and frankly
I don't have time to address each and every one of them. 

I have posted individually to alot of people and I am not sure if they
received the posts, but I would like to set the record straight and post
publicly in the hopes that this can be put to rest. 

I am truly disheartened that just the accusations alone can imply that a
person is guilty of something they are not.  I don't care how you see
it. I know the truth and the truth is that we (Nomad) have NOT written
any bad checks. I don't have to elaborate. I know the truth and so do
others. Vortexbrad was never even a vendor for our new years party yet
he feels he can post about it. 

It is unfortunate that I am not as quick on the internet as all of you
proficient computer people are, and I have already been tried, judged
and discarded until your next topic comes up. 

I don't have the time or energy to reply to everyone who posted on this
matter. I don't think a normal pperson would want to. You people have
really shown how much hatred you have in your hearts and how
disrespectful you are to the scene and the different types of people
there are in it. Most of you haven't been around a long time yet you act
as if you know everything and as if you have a right to judge people. 

I know that I am a good person, I don't rip people off and I have made
good contributions to the scene. In my heart I know the truth and I can
say that I do learn every day of my life. Sometimes I learn more from a
16 year old than a 40 year old person. 

This experience has been an extremely hurtful experience for me and I
hope that you are all very happy to hear that. I am sure that this was
your agenda to begin with.

 I thought for a moment that I could learn a few things from you and you
could share your insight and what was important to you and we could
improve certain things. 

But now I know, that what is important to most of you who have posted,
is a chance to put people down and try to discourage them and hurt their
spirit and that is the biggest crime of all. 

Stacey @ Nomad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 02:50:19 1998
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Do you really expect anyone to believe the crap you posted. You did 
not in any way respond to any of the accusations. Actually, in perfect 
manipulator form, you made every attempt to turn the situation around in 
order that you might garner some sympathy for yourself.

The reality on all of this is that you have time and again failed to 
pay your sound people, DJ's, vendors, and performers. If anyone would 
like a copy of a verifiable list of people that NOMAD INTERACTIVE owes 
money to, shorted on pay, or fucked over completely, I can furnish this. I, 
more than likely will have to ask this group of people if I can give 
them out as a negative reference to NOMAD, but I'm sure they won't mind.

Just like SPACECHILDREN, this group of losers has sucked our scene to 
the bottom of the barrell. What NOMAD proclaims to be truth, justice, 
and the raving way is a bunch of bullshit. They'll smile at you, talk 
sweetly, and (pardon the expression) fuck you in the ass with an oversized 
glowstick at the same time. 

Do not believe a word Stacey,Tom, or anyone from NOMAD says. Their 
word means nothing to them. They have no problem looking a person right in 
the eye and lying. 

The rumors that they are cops were many back in the day. Wiht time, 
they slowly faded from peoples minds. None of the Old Skool wants to work 
with them, trusts them, respects them, or likes them. Yet, I must admit 
that none of the rumors were ever proved true or false. But, they fucked 
someone over for them to start in the first place. Whether that was 
just busting them, or fucking them over, only the popel at NOMAD, and maybe 
a select few others know the truth. 

FUCK NOMAD. 'Cause that's all they are doind to you.

Pokey



Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 03:20:27 1998
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From: Ian <root@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: In regards to the Nomad Incident: put an end to these
  crappy     parties!
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>Perhaps this is the reason Nomad just doesn't give a shit. Why should 
>they even worry about justifying what they did to this list? It's only 
>500 people out of thousands.

My non raving straight edge friend handed me a print up from www.hypereal
on GHB last night and wondered if I ever wanted to try it?
<lol>.

Of my entire group of friends that go raving, only 2 of us are on thist
list, but there is about 20 of us in our extended group and we relay lots
of info from this list to them, and back and forth.

It may be 500, but if everyone extends their info out 5 people deep....


Oh FYI:
	Foundations rave in Sac was great!  Good groove, Eric was a mixing like a
madman, and really getting into it.  Had a blast, and brought a couple of
first timers, and some havn't been there in years plus types.

Ian


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 03:48:40 1998
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I would just like to say that the comment below is total bull shit.
Raves are a Temporary Autonomous Zone. To some, raves go far damn deeper
that fun. To many they are a way of life. To many they are religion and
spirituality. To many they are the only thing that keep them from
committing suicide. For some, that is the only thing that keeps them
going in an un-fair and cruel world. As a wise friend once said: The
rave never ends. There is just a really long pause until it starts up
again. I don't consider a rave loud or noisy either. I consider it full
of life and energy that is lacking in daily reality.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog
> 
> Raves aren't an escape from our chaotic culture... they are a reflection of
> today's culture.  If you want an escape.. go camping in the mountains, and
> commune with nature.  Don't go to a loud, and noisy party or club were
> people are just a sample group of today's youth, music, and dance culture.
> Raves and clubs are for fun, for dancing,  and making friends... but they
> are not and escape from today's reality... they are today's reality.
> Keep it Real.    Vlad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 03:51:08 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Happy Kids With Your bABy :)
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   Hey all, come to find out that I WILL be at the cool party with all 
of you cool ass folks and my friends ate all of my m&m's and there is a 
very cute guy nibbling on my ear...very distracting ya Know, he;'ll be 
there too.   I'll be there and so will I, so hopefully we'll see you 
huh?  I NOW have new bleached hair, I'm fat, ugly, and have a big gash 
in my forhead from passing out on the toilet...don't ask.
Peace,
bAByHueY


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 04:18:25 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:20:50 -0800
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing [Re: ORIGIN - facts]
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Dear Vlad,

        I admire your courage for taking an unpopular position, and for
being civil and respectful, and I hope you always receive a civil and
respectful response from those like myself who disagree with you.

        You shared:

>The only thing I'm defending Is the right of promoters business privacy.

        The *right* to business privacy is one thing; I agree completely
that they have that right.  None of us can or should be able to force them
to tell us anything, short of in legal proceedings in a court of law, and I
haven't heard anyone say otherwise.

        It looks to me as if what you're defending is not the *legal right*
to business privacy, but rather what you consider a reasonable
*expectation* of promoters not to be questioned about certain matters.  But
I don't think one should have any such expectation when "doing business" in
a scene without established and enforceable business practices -- in such a
scene it is up to the entire community to do its policing on an ad hoc
basis.  If this seems harsh and arbitrary, consider that the problem stems
as much from using the scene as a place to "do business" in a conventional
money-making sense as from anything else.

>        This list is a discussion group about raving issues... And its the
>perfect place to talk about this , as well as all aspects of parties.....
>but lately it has been sounding like a promoter lynch mob.  It started with
>the thread about people not getting paid at Resolution on Treasure Island,
>then people not getting paid at Origin.  And now everyone is dumping all
>their aggression (warranted or not) on Nomad.

        When a controversy arises, we on this list have two basic options:
Talk about it or not talk about it.  Under the talk category, we can plant
gnawing suspicions to fester in people's heads by vaguely hinting at bad
things that have happened without giving details and naming names, or we
can have a thorough airing of what happened and get it behind us.

        It all boils down to a question of how much reliable and accurate
information the average raver is going to have about the scene he/she loves
and participates in.  The greater the number of people having information
who share what they know, the greater our collective understanding will be.
I am in favor of more such information being out there; you, apparantly,
believe there should be less.

        We must face the reality that some promoters will act unethically
-- I don't think even you would deny this.  The question is what to do
about it.

        It can seem like a lot of negativity occurs when we talk about such
allegedly unethical promoters on this list.  But are you so sure if this
topic were gone, that it would be replaced by something warm and fuzzy and
not something else "negative"?  My observation is that Internet lists, even
rave lists, will have a certain amount of disagreement; on a large list,
occasional flames seem unavoidable.  (And sometimes they are called for,
although I don't like to be the one delivering the burns.  Every society,
even an anarchist one, must have informal rules defining certain things as
unacceptable behavior.)

>Are they the designated
>scapegoat for everyone to vent their anger on?  Well From an outside view,
>it sounds like shit!  In this country people are still innocent until PROVEN
>guilty....  and that means more than hearsay, innuendo, rumored character
>references, and even circumstantial evidence.   I don't remember when this
>list became some form of rave version of 'The Peoples Court'

        Upholding the idea that people are innocent until proven guilty is
*exactly why* it is important that everyone post what they know, ESPECIALLY
the promoters involved.  That way we can avoid rushing to judgment on the
basis of incomplete information.

        This may not be "People's Court," but it *is* a court, the court of
public opinion.  There are no judges, no one who can enforce any rules;
only plaintiffs, defense, witnesses, and a jury including those people plus
all the rest of us.

>        This thread has stretched the boundaries of rationality.  I know
>that when you become too close to an issue, your emotions take over, and you
>loose sight of the big picture, and that's what's happening here. Sure it's
>a lot easier for me to make this evaluation, because i'm looking at it from
>an outside view.  Im not saying that the promoters of Origin, or Resolution
>are right or wrong... I have no idea because I don't know all the details.

        Like you, I am also looking at this as an outsider (rationally, I
hope).  I didn't go to Origin or Resolution, and I have no personal
connections to, or grudges against, the promoters in question.

        I won't say I don't have my suspicions as to where the truth lies,
because I do, but I'm willing to hear both sides with an open mind as to
what the particular facts may be.

>I can say that it is wrong to judge a promoter negatively because they don't
>'open their books' to you, or because they take a long time to reply to a
>post.   Nomad said they are taking care of their obligations.   They don't
>need to give anyone a timeline or answer why they paid people with check...
>That called Proprietary Information.... It's no one else's business.

        If you are promoting openly and honestly, why should it matter?  If
everyone promoting rave-type events was as evidently good-hearted and
dedicated to the scene as I know some are, I would never give a second
thought to a promoter's handling of money.

        In the collective I'm part of, St. John's Divine Rhythm Society, I
have never bothered to double-check on people handling donations (we don't
charge admission to our events), because I know and trust them.  As a
group, we certainly have our family feuds, but to the best of my
recollection, no one in nearly two years has ever accused anyone else of
being dishonest with our funds in any way.

        However if anyone, inside or outside the collective, were to come
forward and say, "please open your books, I don't feel comfortable with
what I perceive to be going on, and here's why," I would wholeheartedly
support their request.  That's because I don't think we have anything to
hide, and if someone has been hiding something, I'd also want to know about
it.

>       This list has a tendency to OVERREACT when promoters and money issues
>are involved.   You would all be surprised how much ALL promoters care about
>this scene.

        A mere six days ago Vlad, I responded to this statement, from
someone who was *defending* the businesslike conduct of promoters:

        >> ...Promoters dont have to be rave kids, they are promoters and
fed
        >> up with the scene for the most part.

        Sad though it is, it appears not all promoters do care about our
scene.  Looking at their actions, one could easily conclude that some of
them seem to regard raves primarily as a business -- an opportunity to make
money.  Looking at others, one might come away with the impression that
they think the rave scene is primarily an opportunity to be a big-shot.

        Of course promoters aren't the only ones with negative attitudes;
we're all guilty of it from time to time, myself included.  But when
someone is acting as a promoter, he/she has a special responsibility for
promoting a good vibe, imho.

>The only reason that most of you feel that promoters will rip
>of the scene is because most of you don't give it a second thought when you
>SLAM these same promoters.  That's why flame wars start so easy on this
>forum, and in the end... NOTHING CHANGES!

        It's NOT AT ALL true that nothing changes.  When the truth is
spoken, and recognized as truth, EVERYTHING changes.  Remember the story of
the Emporerer who had no clothes?

>If any of you think that
>positive changes are going to come out of this whole Bashing of promoters...

        Positive change will come about from awareness of what's going on.
Understandably, as people become aware, there may be some anger, but it
will largely pass if amends are made.

>well my 6 years of rave promoting experience disagrees with you.  The best
>way to influence positive change in the way promoters treat OUR scene is by
>giving them support and respect.  That way they will have higher goals to
>>fulfill,

        I fully agree [for once! 8)] with Brian Behlendorf, who said that
we shouldn't be drawing a line between promoters and ravers.  When I'm
involved in putting on an event, I want people attending to feel it is
their event as much as mine, and not just because that's what it says on a
flyer, but because it feels like a cooperative venture, not a
producer-consumer relationship (thank you Bryce for illuminating that for
me, many moons ago on the list).

        I don't want promoters to have "higher" goals than other ravers!  I
want us to be working together toward the same goals...

>and they will try harder not to fuck up, cause they know that
>people are counting on them.  But when you assume a promoter is going to
>fuck up...

        If someone with a history of crashing his car while drunk is
spotted weaving down the road with a can of beer in one hand, it's not
unreasonable to assume they're going to have an accident.

       This is less about assumptions than behavior.  Instead of blaming
bad results on a lack of trust and support from the community, let's look
at the behavior that fuels the mistrust and try to change it.  If the
mistrust is unwarranted, then let's prove that by coming clean on the
information.

        Just shutting up the critics won't solve anything, in fact it will
make the situation worse.

and you let them know (via this list) before the party even takes
>place....  Then Why are you all so surprised when it actually happens.
>Positive Thought is a Major Contributor to Positive Output.
>
>Keep it Real.     Vlad

        Yes, but all it takes for evil to triumph is for people of good
will to do nothing.  Or, as Martin Luther King put it, injustice anywhere
is a threat to justice everywhere.

                                <<< Starchild >>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 05:32:04 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:00:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP:  Trance & Jungle Factory
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	just added      to the line up





from SF House Collective-Melanie




and                   Boomerang Fidget............




$10

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 07:32:46 1998
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To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Name that tune 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Jan 98 20:04:06 EST."
             <8e7310b6.34b6c906@aol.com> 
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 23:32:42 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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> anyone want to start a thread on >>fave<< techno-samples?  Not only as a
> positive distraction, but to flesh out some of some of the old skool knowledge
> on this list?

One of my fave samples (heard in about 3 difft house/techno songs,
sometimes even as a "breakbeat") is the weird lip-fluttering-vocal
(brrr-bap-bu-bu-bu) from Ramsey Lewis' "Jungle Strut" from his 1974 LP
"Sun Goddess"...

Also, the intro to DJ Icey's "Grand Canyon Suite" ("meine damen und
herren, mes dames et mesieurs, ladies und gentlemen, and now...") is
from the movie Cabaret.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: [NRR] Millenium 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Jan 98 23:55:37 PST."
             <34B72979.138C@pacbell.net> 
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 23:35:02 -0800
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2012 is when they're finally going to solve the year 2000 problem in
software systems worldwide. except that we won't know it's 2012 because
of delays in releasing windows2000. you see, bill gates will have taken
over all the calendar companies and forced them to put in a bunch of
leap months so that we don't notice the passing of the extra 12 years 
until they actually get windows2000 released. to us, it'll just seem
like  it's really been a drag-of-a-long-time to wait for that big
year2000 mega/new/years/rave, but in reality it was just another one of
Bill's nefarious plans to sell presale tickets many years in advance so
he could collect enough capital/interest on the tickets to be able to
fund millions of software engineers checking millions of lines of
machine code for year 2000 bugs... you'll know it's nearing millenium
time because Bill will dupe millions of ravers to attend
millemium/mega/rave/2000 and the attendees will take one-way-shuttles
to some godawful desert island (such as the UK) where they'll find
they're forced into slavery doing product testing and Q&A on windows
2000 with background music by superstar DJ keoki doing "MTV unplugged"
while various rave promoters wander about muttering PLUR and "love is
wonderful to love" with vacant eyes flashing triple-$ like someone
turned their heads into jackpot slotmachines illuminated against a
nightsky that glows like a TV-indian testpattern they put on late at
night after the station goes off the air.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 08:20:01 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-10 22:49:18 EST, you write:

<<  I don't consider a rave loud or noisy either.

I do, in a really good intense way though. Come on, don't ya hear the Earth
pounding ~^~bass~^~ SCREAMING at you to groove your body? =*)

<< I consider it full
 of life and energy 

YES! Parties are beautiful...

<<that is lacking in daily reality.
 Love,
 Paul*E*Wog >>

This is where I disagree...your reality is what you want it to be. It can be
as full of life and energy as you want, or as dull and boring as you make it.
There are always options and choices you can make to get yourself out of any
undesirable situation, be it by physicality or mindset.

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-


==============================================================================
=======
Polyrythmick activity is available while supplies last.

CLAP YOUR HANDS
STOMP YOUR FEET.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 08:41:29 1998
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From: "Chris Ledesma" <vespa_raver@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Robert Miles (_23am_)
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So what does everyone think of the new Robert Miles CD (_23am_)?  (If 
you respond, plese cc vespa_raver@hotmail.com ... I'm only on the digest 
list while I'm down in San Diego and I usually don't have time to go 
through it all.)

Personally, I do like it.  While it is VERY, VERY different from 
_Dreamland_, and while I like _Dreamland_ far better, I do like it.  I 
especially like track 6 ("Enjoy").  Anyway, I'd love to hear everyone 
else's opinions on it.  Sorry if this is a thread that's already gone 
around, but I've been gone for 3 weeks.  I can't wait to get back up 
there, but I still have two more weeks down here in hell!  Anyway, if 
you respond to this, don't forget to cc vespa_raver@hotmail.com

thanks!

love,
the VespaRaver


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 12:40:36 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:01:49 -0800
To: Faro@usa.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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The Music as always... 

Is Always The Bomb.... 

Love the Music not the Drugz...

-SugeR


At 05:54 AM 1/7/98 +0000, you wrote:
>	It seems that there are a lot of things that are WRONG in the 
>scene right now. Could someone please tell me what is RIGHT in the 
>scene.
>
>Thanks
>-Faro
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 18:25:27 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Happy Kids with A Groove(review)
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Mornin all,  My man and I cruised up to the city from the depths of my 
woodland grove (treacherous weather doods :() and we got lost,,,of 
course All I have to say is that it is a very good thing he has a memory 
(a good one too!)  
   The location was nice and roomy, big enough for my ass to be wigglin' 
right next to Ms. Lara's  :P  A very big main room, It was lit a little 
too much for my tastes, they could have had a few more strobes or 
somethin' that way I would have been able to stop harrassing everyone I 
saw or met (YO kids!  wuz up?)  They had a nice BIG chill area for all 
those pesky kids who like pot n' all...I visited for a short period of 
time myself ;) very long period actually, but it was fun.  Downstairs 
was beautiful...dark, with many blacklights and smiling faces and great 
muzic...Greg Sandler and his hard and whacky tastes took, me for a 
journey or two, then it was Mars & MysterE, with some mind boggling 
"jump higher" trance and sort...nice, very nice.  Up in the main room, 
Elte was after Uncle Noah ( sorry I missed your set man, I blame the 
tweekers who put together the entire city of SF) and she was touching a 
lot of people, she touched my man and I broke her leg...just kidding.  I 
was dancing so much and I was in such "space oddyssey" whhooooo hoo, 
don't remember much except for meeting Haze and her other friend "who 
doesn't post much, and of course Tall Paul making love to the sound 
system while dancing in his style worth seeing...majestic would be a 
good word to describe that boy, whudda happy kid huh? Then Carlos was on 
for a very long time and he was taring poop up.  The whole dance floor 
was hopping more than us crasy people were.  Ian and Marty were fun, 
though I wish Marty woulda stayed on a bit more than he did, but Ian's 
little touch of disco made things a bit better (cheese ya know? I dig 
it) 
   It was a beautiful night with a good, stong vibe. It was a different, 
and kind of weird, but that is what made it's uniqueness.  I had a great 
time as I'm sure many others did too.  Tyler, my newest member into my 
heart was experiencing his first party and he was loving it, I have to 
help him dance though...shhhh, don't tell him I said that...he'll figure 
something out and then I wont have to break Elte's leg...just kidding.
Deliriously tired and going to wait tables now
oh, how fun :(
The guy with the shirt wrapped around his brain and his belly waiving 
"hello" to alll of you folks out there, hairy-ew

That's it, I'm shaving
Nah, I'm too lazy.
Peace,
Danny


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 18:29:49 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: wish I could be a Nappy Kid
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Well I hope most of the happy kids participants are
more lucky than I and are are nestled all snug in
their beds- unfortunately for me I had to go almost
straight to work.  So you'll excuse me if I drift off
into incoherence.

I have to say that the Happy kids was a mixed bag for
me, and I won't try to place blame the organizer's
for it (because God knows I don't want another 3 week
thread on who's to blame) 

On the plus side the PLUR side- I liked the
decorations that were put up for the event, I felt
the effort to make the enviroment special.  Also, I
liked the vibe- I thought it was nice to be asked if
I was enjoying myself, although one of the Karma
patrol thought I was having a bad trip or something
when really I was just worn out.  Anyway I've always
like the Idea of a Karma patrol that are there just
in case something goes wrong. Someone to talk to the
person without being judgemental.

But on the downside I thought the security were way
too full of themselves, and did not add to the vibe
except negatively.  I thought it was a silly
excercise in petty control to regulate when the
smoker's could go outside.  I felt like I was in high
school again (which has been a long time for me). 
And at 4 when I sat down to wait for my friends to
show up two security guards said "What does he think
he's doing?"
"Get up the parties over you gotta leave."
It felt completely patronizing to me, and I thought
unneccessary as well.  As I said before I don't
really want to address accountability- except for the
security staff.  Personally, I think I would rather
go to an unlicensed underground party that risked
being shut down than deal with that again.

I am disappointed that I didn't get to meet more
SFRAVERS(I happened to recognize MushyB's sunpatch
from her post- but that was about it) and hear Uncle
Noah's set but I had to get at least 2 hours sleep
before going out.  

I am definately looking forward to spring and more
underground outdoor raves.  I am also dying to go on
a boat rave- so if anyone has the scoop on that let
me know.

I should quit before my fuzzy brain starts
daydreaming online.

pjf
  






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 18:51:33 1998
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I haven't posted or checked my mail in like a week or two now...."You 
have 611 messages."   Ahggggg!  As I read the first 90 I just wanted to 
post a BIG Hi & Hello to everyone. 

(I'm sooo sick!  No details-too yucky.  I've been sick since Monday!)  

Tah-tah for now!

TERESA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 19:47:32 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:50:10 -0800
To: thenomad@pacbell.net
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
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At 6:43 PM -0800 12/14/97, thenomad wrote:
>I am going to post one final letter. Granted, I am not as well versed on
>the finer points of composing and disecting all these posts and frankly
>I don't have time to address each and every one of them.

Not to attack but you seem very eloquent and very well versed at posting
replies.  The fact that you have been silent is one of your problems.  The
other problem is that of owed monies, which people insist that obligation
still exists.

>
>I have posted individually to alot of people and I am not sure if they
>received the posts, but I would like to set the record straight and post
>publicly in the hopes that this can be put to rest.

It seems this will never be put to rest until you come correct.

>
>I am truly disheartened that just the accusations alone can imply that a
>person is guilty of something they are not.  I don't care how you see
>it. I know the truth and the truth is that we (Nomad) have NOT written
>any bad checks. I don't have to elaborate. I know the truth and so do
>others. Vortexbrad was never even a vendor for our new years party yet
>he feels he can post about it.

Can someone post the names of the people this group owes money to?  Out
with it already.

>
>It is unfortunate that I am not as quick on the internet as all of you
>proficient computer people are, and I have already been tried, judged
>and discarded until your next topic comes up.

You have been the only jury and judge and prosecutor.  Your silence, just
like VSF's speaks volumes.  And your replies speak libraries.

>
>I don't have the time or energy to reply to everyone who posted on this
>matter. I don't think a normal pperson would want to. You people have
>really shown how much hatred you have in your hearts and how
>disrespectful you are to the scene and the different types of people
>there are in it.

You are NOT the scene.  You are a group of individuals who throw parties,
just like a number of people on the list, myself included.  What has really
happened is a promoters nightmare:
-Your business practices are *out* in the open.

Promoters hate this more than anything.  The contempt of your silence
proves this.  If you would have paid everyone correctly then there would be
no topic.  This is not 1992, people are far more savvy than years past.
You just happened to screw up at a time when people are hip to the game.

Now if you're saying you owe noone nothing then come out and say it, stop
the pity party and putting it off on others , just come correct, state the
truth and say nothing more.  You keep interjecting with pleas of innocence
without ever refuting the allegations.

-Didi you pay the people who you hired?

Simple enough, and it's a yes or no question.  I dare you to answer it.  No
long paragraphs, just answer the question.  People are telling me an
emphatic NO, NOMAD DIDN'T PAY ME!

> Most of you haven't been around a long time yet you act
>as if you know everything and as if you have a right to judge people.

You are so very wrong.  Most of the people on this list have been around
long enough (many approaching the 6 year mark and others quite longer BTW)
to know when a rip-off has occurred.  I'll short the list many things, but
group experience is not one of them.  Collectively this list has attended,
I would gather, tens of thousands of parties.  This list has new people,
but they are in the minority.  Before you go putting off people's
criticisms of your poor business practices, maybe you should give them
credit for not buying into what you're "pushing" on them.  People know
what's up.

So once again, you are wrong, the people on the list have been around long
enough to know what's up.  As for judging, it is a part of human nature.
it is a part of survival.  People must judge what is good vs what is
counterproductive.  It seems you have been judged the former, and it is
within people's right to do so (after all, you're trying to make money
based upon the assumption that people will judge you *good* in order for
them to shell out $$$'s for your parties, c'mon already).  It is also your
responsibility to maintian your rep.  What you do affects how others see
you.  So far, you're striking out.

>
>I know that I am a good person, I don't rip people off and I have made
>good contributions to the scene.

What are these contributions?

> In my heart I know the truth and I can
>say that I do learn every day of my life.

And the lesson here is?  "Pay people or your name is shit!".

Hey, do you think you'll ever be able to throw another party here without
correcting the problem you've created..

> Sometimes I learn more from a
>16 year old than a 40 year old person.

Yes indeed.  A 16 year old might forgive you for your trespasses much
eaiser than a 40 year old.  I think you depend upon this naievete to make
money.  Whatever.  I also know some 16 year olds who would have done
terrible things to you if they hadn't been paid, another testament to age
IMO.

>
>This experience has been an extremely hurtful experience for me and I
>hope that you are all very happy to hear that. I am sure that this was
>your agenda to begin with.

The agenda has been to seek the truth.  Yours has been not to deal with the
agenda, thus the recent state of affairs as public opinion of your group
has turned sour.  Hey did you know that xlr8r can piblish some of this
stuff if it's brought to them via a letter.  Maybe people who aren't
satisfied should complain through publications.  Hmm...did someone say
letter writing campaign?

>
> I thought for a moment that I could learn a few things from you and you
>could share your insight and what was important to you and we could
>improve certain things.

Like giving people what was promised.  You still haven't answered
accusation one.  Didi you pay people, YES or NO?  That is the only insight
people are interested in.  One other insight is if the answer is NO, when
will you make good on your promises and contracts?

>
>But now I know, that what is important to most of you who have posted,
>is a chance to put people down and try to discourage them and hurt their
>spirit and that is the biggest crime of all.

The biggest crime of all is murder, the taking of an innocent life, don;t
get to melodramatic please.  The next biggest is lying.  By not answering
the allegations, you accept them. With this in mind it has been determined
that Nomad has lied.  Onmly you can correct this by *coming correct* and
answering the questions:

-Did people get paid?
-If not when will they?

Simple.

Later,
jsl

P.S.  I would hope that this seves as a lesson to us all.  This scene is
polluted with people concerned with many other things than the music.  At
one time I defended people's right to make money via the rave scene.  I
think people can do that, as long as it is done ehtically (this means
keeping your promises, and delivering on what is promised and expected).  I
have noticed a certain creeping though.  This is the creep of greed and it
has reached SF just in time for the millenium.

-Question for everyone:  How much do you think it will cost to attend the
1999 or 2001 parties.  I expect $40-$50 or more.  And I won't attend any
rave, guranteed (I wouldn't mind doing a $20 party).

>
>Stacey @ Nomad


"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 20:49:25 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:45:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Raver Parade
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like i said paul..
in a perfect, utopian raver world, this would be perfect.
but this is real life.
xo
lara

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Yeah I get what you're saying, but i mean, we don't hand out pamphlets
> to kids! I mean like adults & teenagers. People are gonna do drugs
> either way. It's best that they do them safley than unsafley. That's the
> idea behind that "Just say KNOW" campaign that I've been seeing drug
> pamphlets from at all the parties latley.
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
> 
> lara at vibe.org wrote:
> > 
> > this is a cute idea in an ideal world
> > but do we REALLY want to hand out drug information to people omnn the
> > streets?
> > little kids are gonna love the colorful floats and all the candyravers...
> > if they're handed a poamphlet on drugs..
> > well anyway
> > you get my idea.
> > xo
> > lara
> > 
> > On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > 
> > > Hey Everyone!! I got a real neat idea. How about we work something out
> > > with the city of San Francisco to do a raver parade.
> > > We get floats with DJs and soud systems on them spinning records.
> > > We get everyone dressed up or just showing up and all of us walk down
> > > the streets giving away candy, necklaces, and drug information.
> > > We pass out flyers with our mission statemnts on them and saying what a
> > > rave is all about.
> > > What do you people think???
> > >
> > > Love,
> > > Paul*E*Wog
> > >
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 21:26:48 1998
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From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Happy kids was no Nomad ....
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:17:04 -0800
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By far i'll remember this one as one of the best parties of 1998 ...
and 1998 just started a couple of weeks ago ...

The location was awesome, the DJs rocked my world (Elte (sp?) took me to
the next level and reminded me of why i go to raves - Thank you girl !!!),
the crowd was all smiles and after 1.5 years on this list (and going to
parties) I finally met a couple of SFRavers  (Hi Michael, Baby huey)

Millions of thanks to Haze (you multilingual, multicultural you) for
taking me to this party, introducing me to the SFRavers and for being
so much fun to be with ... you're the best and we got to do this again ...

Much respect to the happy kids crew for throwing an awesome party and
this should be the proof that you can throw a legal rave with the feel
of the underground ...

Peace and until next time ...

Rudi

The content of this message | mailto:rudir@aimnet.com
in no way reflects the      | mailto:rrughoon@mipos2.intel.com
opinion of my employer :)   | http://www.aimnet.com/~rudir/
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 21:43:50 1998
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From: Karma2001 <Karma2001@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:42:03 EST
To: poobear@Hotmail.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: H/--\ppY /<iDs....Lots of Bubbles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hey all you H/--\ppY /<iDs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
        Let me just tell you I had so much fun last night I'm still having
fun...and the parties over. I made a huge effort with rebecca to get there at
8pm to hit up Uncle Noahs set....well we got there at 830pm....not bad. So we
ran into the big room and POW!!!!!!!! It's uncle noah.....Hi remember me? It
was cool...I got my groove on a little bit...it was 830 so it took me a bit to
get into that "shake your butt thang" ok....the first sfraver I met was
Hayze.....Hey girl....and she gave me a pretty little
bracelet...thankyou!!!!!! The I met MARQ!!!! And he had all these cute things
smoothered all over him....he IS a Toys R Us KID!!!!!!!! and I I look through
my looking glass I see Lara I see Doreen I see Tall Paul I see Jeremey...he
he..... I see Danny with his new man...you go.....and I see Dan (micron)....ok
so then I did all that running around and someone said "JUNGLE
DOWNSTAIRS!!!!!!!!!!!" WoooHooo....so I ran down there dances for about 37
seconds and then I saw this fan....I got posted....I couldn't leave....I had
this infactuation of making sure that eveyone got hit with a fan....so I had
on these gloves with people and animals and flowers on the ends of my
fingers...popped on my shades and made the fan hit everyone that walked
by....I did this for about 1.5 hours...it was a good way to meet people....I
saw starianna cricket blake brian janel and a whole bunch more people.....ok
so yeah....After getting torn away from the fan by rebecca she dragged me
upstairs.....and Carlos was spinning....he went off like a mo--fo....I was
getting bad breath by this time so I reached down in my bag for some gum and
POW....I found my bubbles that I got in my stocking for X-mas....so then I
started blowing bubbles uncontrolably....I couldn't stop....the rest of my
night consisted of making sure that everyone got a wif of thise bubbles....so
I thought what a better place to go and blow some bubbles???? The chill
room!!!!!!!!!!! Ok so I went in there....and I ran into PJFuzzy!!!!!! And he
on a Fuzzy Jacket it was cool!!!!!!!!So I was blowing all those bubbles and
let me just tell you those people in that chill room were so gosh darn HAPPY
to see those"beautiful" bubbles that I got attacked...in a good way
though....I saw RUBILICIOUS....my friend of 10 years...she looked soooooo
cute!!!!!!!!! And she liked the bubbles too.....I got drawn on my some people
with a highlighter and they insisted they draw on me.....so I said why
not....I figure hey if thats what they really want to do why not......so
yeah.....then MARTY came on.....Damn!!!!!! He was tearing that shit up on the
turntables.....I did got my groove on and blew lots more bubbles....after he
was done someone else came on (dont know his name) and he was on for only 45
minutes but he tore that shit up too.....it was an awsome night i had a really
good time....then it was over and we had to all leave that second.....or else
those mean security guards were going to kick our butts!!!!!!!!!! so  yeah I
had an awsome time.....sorry this was so long....I'm holding back a lot
too.......so have a wonderful day....I bet all of you are still sleeping.....I
wuv you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   <3 *MushyB!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 21:57:26 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:57:20 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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I have no idea where to start on this one. I just got and idea and need
help. I am too young to deal with the po's and the city and i have no
budget. I am willing to help as much tho.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

*byroni* wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> 
> I think this would be a great idea, but it would have to be focused on
> the Music. With emfasis on the rave scene. THe only problem is that a lot
> of aspects of our scene are illegal. So I'm not sure how we'd swing it.
> What we could do is find out how THE LOVE PARADE is supported and how it
> got started. I'd be interested in helping out on this one.
> 
> Byron
> 
> On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > Hey Everyone!! I got a real neat idea. How about we work something out
> > with the city of San Francisco to do a raver parade.
> > We get floats with DJs and soud systems on them spinning records.
> > We get everyone dressed up or just showing up and all of us walk down
> > the streets giving away candy, necklaces, and drug information.
> > We pass out flyers with our mission statemnts on them and saying what a
> > rave is all about.
> > What do you people think???
> >
> > Love,
> > Paul*E*Wog
> >
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                         -me

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 21:59:48 1998
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True!
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

lara at vibe.org wrote:
> 
> like i said paul..
> in a perfect, utopian raver world, this would be perfect.
> but this is real life.
> xo
> lara
> 
> On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > Yeah I get what you're saying, but i mean, we don't hand out pamphlets
> > to kids! I mean like adults & teenagers. People are gonna do drugs
> > either way. It's best that they do them safley than unsafley. That's the
> > idea behind that "Just say KNOW" campaign that I've been seeing drug
> > pamphlets from at all the parties latley.
> > Love,
> > Paul*E*Wog
> >
> > lara at vibe.org wrote:
> > >
> > > this is a cute idea in an ideal world
> > > but do we REALLY want to hand out drug information to people omnn the
> > > streets?
> > > little kids are gonna love the colorful floats and all the candyravers...
> > > if they're handed a poamphlet on drugs..
> > > well anyway
> > > you get my idea.
> > > xo
> > > lara
> > >
> > > On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Everyone!! I got a real neat idea. How about we work something out
> > > > with the city of San Francisco to do a raver parade.
> > > > We get floats with DJs and soud systems on them spinning records.
> > > > We get everyone dressed up or just showing up and all of us walk down
> > > > the streets giving away candy, necklaces, and drug information.
> > > > We pass out flyers with our mission statemnts on them and saying what a
> > > > rave is all about.
> > > > What do you people think???
> > > >
> > > > Love,
> > > > Paul*E*Wog
> > > >
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 22:15:23 1998
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Subject: Re: Robert Miles (_23am_)
To: vespa_raver@hotmail.com (Chris Ledesma)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:14:31 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org, vespa_raver@hotmail.com
In-Reply-To: <19980111084059.12937.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Chris Ledesma" at Jan 11, 98 00:40:59 am
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Hi Vespa!

Well I'd never heard anything by Robert Miles until I read byroni's
post the other day (was it byroni?) which inspired me to go check him 
out. The only CD the store had was 23am, so I bought it, and while it's 
very different from anything I normally listen to, I'm enjoying it very
much. I've only run it through a couple of times, but I really like
the acoustic guitar (!) on like track2 or 3. Yup, "Enjoy" is a nice
one too. The whole CD has a very warm, positive feel to it - lots of 
vocals, quite non-techno (even though it was under the "techno" section 
in the store!). Almost a soul album, which surprises me as that's 
normally not my thing. I'll have to pick up Dreamland as it's so highly 
recommended. Thanks to byroni for a good lead!


peace

- Martin

> 
> So what does everyone think of the new Robert Miles CD (_23am_)?  (If 
> you respond, plese cc vespa_raver@hotmail.com ... I'm only on the digest 
> list while I'm down in San Diego and I usually don't have time to go 
> through it all.)
> 
> Personally, I do like it.  While it is VERY, VERY different from 
> _Dreamland_, and while I like _Dreamland_ far better, I do like it.  I 
> especially like track 6 ("Enjoy").  Anyway, I'd love to hear everyone 
> else's opinions on it.  Sorry if this is a thread that's already gone 
> around, but I've been gone for 3 weeks.  I can't wait to get back up 
> there, but I still have two more weeks down here in hell!  Anyway, if 
> you respond to this, don't forget to cc vespa_raver@hotmail.com
> 
> thanks!
> 
> love,
> the VespaRaver
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 22:34:50 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:03:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR-Mixer for Sale
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would anyone be interested in buying a brand new mixer?..........it has 2 
phono inputs and 2 line inputs, master volume, and bass and treble, it's 
your basic startemup' mixer, but brand new, it's the new line from 
RadioShack.................it looks a lot and has the feel of the Gemini 
ScractchMaster series............oh, it has signal cutting.....for breaks 
or cuts.............the funny thing is I havent heard it yet, so , I cant 
give a sound quality tip on it, but I t will be for sale in about a 
week............

if interested let me know...........

I will sell it the same price I bought it for.............$69.00
mail me............

-Marco

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 11 23:08:05 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:05:13 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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Hi Starchild... Man....You Wrote a whole lot ... I don't even know were to
begin.  You just made so may good points.  After reading what you wrote, It gives
me a good understanding of your impression of what a party is in your opinion.  I
think that the biggest difference is that when I wrote what I did, I was coming
from the perspective of a Massive event, and a purely business perspective.  But
the majority of your comments seemed like they were reflective of a smaller and
more UG party perspective.  This difference in reference makes me completely
agree with what you wrote, when I evaluate it from your perspective.

In my Opinion, There is this VERY large separation when it comes to throwing
smaller parties for the fun and the music, compared to producing entertainment
for a living.   I try as hard as I can to incorporate both aspects into my life,
and my work.  But In this case, because The thread was regarding massive's... I
was coming from a very industry viewpoint, and not so much a community viewpoint
as you were.  That is one of the big difference between UG and Massives...(in my
VERY generalized definition) is that UG's thrive on the community support, and
Massive's utilize Industry resources.   Now this is in no way an exact definition
by any means, but it is a prime factor in the obvious nature of the two distinct
operations.    In any case, It would be hard to throw any party without both
aspects.  But the biggest difference between community and industry, is that
while community is public domain information... Industry information is
proprietary.

What was happening here with this thread is that the community was inquiring
about industry information, that from a business perspective should not be the
communities concern.    Below you brought up that I posted info About or Finances
after the SPIRIT of giving party on Thanksgiving...  I did, and I did so, because
the nature of that party was a Community Benefit for the Homeless, and I said IN
ADVANCE that I would inform the Community about the amount of the donation after
all figures were calculated, and true to my word I posted them.  But If someone
would to ask me to post my financial record after an event... I would never even
consider it.   I have always posted, and plan to continue to inform this
community of any contribution that is made after our events, because I know that
this community helped make that donation possible, but I will not justify it..
because that is my business, and not the communities.  There is an old saying
that goes something like this: "If you let everyone know your business...
Eventually, you have no business of your own"  Well it's the same thing
here....We all need to have our secrets.  It's what makes us individuals.   And
in addition... If YOU were Nomad... and You were reading these angry and Hateful
posts... would you want to give out financial information that can be forwarded,
by any disgruntled raver to anywhere on the net????  Think about it???  I sure
wouldn't.  There are a lot of issues involved here... and anything that is posted
is something that can possibly be used against you.. just like this post... I
doubt that everyone will read it with the understanding of where I was coming
from when I wrote it... but that's the nature of this list.  It is something you
learn to deal with... is having people misunderstand you by fitering out your
perspective... and the meaning gets misinterperted... no matter how hard you may
try.

I love Raving, and I love organizing parties... not just because I have a vision
to fulfill, but because I enjoy knowing that something that I do has the
potential to bring people together, and possibly give them a very good and
memorable experience that they may cherish for some time.  And If you ask any
promoter... Nomad, Space Children, Cool world, Ghost tribe, Bagok... or any other
promoter that has taken MUCH heat from this list... You will get a VERY similar
answer.

Those of you out there that think there are promoters that are making a grip off
of exploiting this scene...  You really should try to throw your own party
sometime... because its a HUGE misconception that you can get rich from producing
events.  I have been on this list for a few years now, and I see promoters get
flamed left and right...  silly little things... usually rumors...  and i find it
sad, that people can find the time to knit pick a petty issue to death, while
overlooking all the positive issues that promoters deal with in order to make an
event possible.   It's sad that there is so much misunderstanding in this
scene.   Im just glad that there are so many wonderful things about this scene
that these petty little issues can be overlooked and forgotten, when one focuses
on the big picture.

Keep it Real... Vlad


Starchild wrote:

> Dear Vlad,
>
>         I admire your courage for taking an unpopular position, and for
> being civil and respectful, and I hope you always receive a civil and
> respectful response from those like myself who disagree with you.
>
>         You shared:
>
> >The only thing I'm defending Is the right of promoters business privacy.
>
>         The *right* to business privacy is one thing; I agree completely
> that they have that right.  None of us can or should be able to force them
> to tell us anything, short of in legal proceedings in a court of law, and I
> haven't heard anyone say otherwise.
>
>         It looks to me as if what you're defending is not the *legal right*
> to business privacy, but rather what you consider a reasonable
> *expectation* of promoters not to be questioned about certain matters.  But
> I don't think one should have any such expectation when "doing business" in
> a scene without established and enforceable business practices -- in such a
> scene it is up to the entire community to do its policing on an ad hoc
> basis.  If this seems harsh and arbitrary, consider that the problem stems
> as much from using the scene as a place to "do business" in a conventional
> money-making sense as from anything else.
>
> >        This list is a discussion group about raving issues... And its the
> >perfect place to talk about this , as well as all aspects of parties.....
> >but lately it has been sounding like a promoter lynch mob.  It started with
> >the thread about people not getting paid at Resolution on Treasure Island,
> >then people not getting paid at Origin.  And now everyone is dumping all
> >their aggression (warranted or not) on Nomad.
>
>         When a controversy arises, we on this list have two basic options:
> Talk about it or not talk about it.  Under the talk category, we can plant
> gnawing suspicions to fester in people's heads by vaguely hinting at bad
> things that have happened without giving details and naming names, or we
> can have a thorough airing of what happened and get it behind us.
>
>         It all boils down to a question of how much reliable and accurate
> information the average raver is going to have about the scene he/she loves
> and participates in.  The greater the number of people having information
> who share what they know, the greater our collective understanding will be.
> I am in favor of more such information being out there; you, apparantly,
> believe there should be less.
>
>         We must face the reality that some promoters will act unethically
> -- I don't think even you would deny this.  The question is what to do
> about it.
>
>         It can seem like a lot of negativity occurs when we talk about such
> allegedly unethical promoters on this list.  But are you so sure if this
> topic were gone, that it would be replaced by something warm and fuzzy and
> not something else "negative"?  My observation is that Internet lists, even
> rave lists, will have a certain amount of disagreement; on a large list,
> occasional flames seem unavoidable.  (And sometimes they are called for,
> although I don't like to be the one delivering the burns.  Every society,
> even an anarchist one, must have informal rules defining certain things as
> unacceptable behavior.)
>
> >Are they the designated
> >scapegoat for everyone to vent their anger on?  Well From an outside view,
> >it sounds like shit!  In this country people are still innocent until PROVEN
> >guilty....  and that means more than hearsay, innuendo, rumored character
> >references, and even circumstantial evidence.   I don't remember when this
> >list became some form of rave version of 'The Peoples Court'
>
>         Upholding the idea that people are innocent until proven guilty is
> *exactly why* it is important that everyone post what they know, ESPECIALLY
> the promoters involved.  That way we can avoid rushing to judgment on the
> basis of incomplete information.
>
>         This may not be "People's Court," but it *is* a court, the court of
> public opinion.  There are no judges, no one who can enforce any rules;
> only plaintiffs, defense, witnesses, and a jury including those people plus
> all the rest of us.
>
> >        This thread has stretched the boundaries of rationality.  I know
> >that when you become too close to an issue, your emotions take over, and you
> >loose sight of the big picture, and that's what's happening here. Sure it's
> >a lot easier for me to make this evaluation, because i'm looking at it from
> >an outside view.  Im not saying that the promoters of Origin, or Resolution
> >are right or wrong... I have no idea because I don't know all the details.
>
>         Like you, I am also looking at this as an outsider (rationally, I
> hope).  I didn't go to Origin or Resolution, and I have no personal
> connections to, or grudges against, the promoters in question.
>
>         I won't say I don't have my suspicions as to where the truth lies,
> because I do, but I'm willing to hear both sides with an open mind as to
> what the particular facts may be.
>
> >I can say that it is wrong to judge a promoter negatively because they don't
> >'open their books' to you, or because they take a long time to reply to a
> >post.   Nomad said they are taking care of their obligations.   They don't
> >need to give anyone a timeline or answer why they paid people with check...
> >That called Proprietary Information.... It's no one else's business.
>
>         If you are promoting openly and honestly, why should it matter?  If
> everyone promoting rave-type events was as evidently good-hearted and
> dedicated to the scene as I know some are, I would never give a second
> thought to a promoter's handling of money.
>
>         In the collective I'm part of, St. John's Divine Rhythm Society, I
> have never bothered to double-check on people handling donations (we don't
> charge admission to our events), because I know and trust them.  As a
> group, we certainly have our family feuds, but to the best of my
> recollection, no one in nearly two years has ever accused anyone else of
> being dishonest with our funds in any way.
>
>         However if anyone, inside or outside the collective, were to come
> forward and say, "please open your books, I don't feel comfortable with
> what I perceive to be going on, and here's why," I would wholeheartedly
> support their request.  That's because I don't think we have anything to
> hide, and if someone has been hiding something, I'd also want to know about
> it.
>
> >       This list has a tendency to OVERREACT when promoters and money issues
> >are involved.   You would all be surprised how much ALL promoters care about
> >this scene.
>
>         A mere six days ago Vlad, I responded to this statement, from
> someone who was *defending* the businesslike conduct of promoters:
>
>         >> ...Promoters dont have to be rave kids, they are promoters and
> fed
>         >> up with the scene for the most part.
>
>         Sad though it is, it appears not all promoters do care about our
> scene.  Looking at their actions, one could easily conclude that some of
> them seem to regard raves primarily as a business -- an opportunity to make
> money.  Looking at others, one might come away with the impression that
> they think the rave scene is primarily an opportunity to be a big-shot.
>
>         Of course promoters aren't the only ones with negative attitudes;
> we're all guilty of it from time to time, myself included.  But when
> someone is acting as a promoter, he/she has a special responsibility for
> promoting a good vibe, imho.
>
> >The only reason that most of you feel that promoters will rip
> >of the scene is because most of you don't give it a second thought when you
> >SLAM these same promoters.  That's why flame wars start so easy on this
> >forum, and in the end... NOTHING CHANGES!
>
>         It's NOT AT ALL true that nothing changes.  When the truth is
> spoken, and recognized as truth, EVERYTHING changes.  Remember the story of
> the Emporerer who had no clothes?
>
> >If any of you think that
> >positive changes are going to come out of this whole Bashing of promoters...
>
>         Positive change will come about from awareness of what's going on.
> Understandably, as people become aware, there may be some anger, but it
> will largely pass if amends are made.
>
> >well my 6 years of rave promoting experience disagrees with you.  The best
> >way to influence positive change in the way promoters treat OUR scene is by
> >giving them support and respect.  That way they will have higher goals to
> >>fulfill,
>
>         I fully agree [for once! 8)] with Brian Behlendorf, who said that
> we shouldn't be drawing a line between promoters and ravers.  When I'm
> involved in putting on an event, I want people attending to feel it is
> their event as much as mine, and not just because that's what it says on a
> flyer, but because it feels like a cooperative venture, not a
> producer-consumer relationship (thank you Bryce for illuminating that for
> me, many moons ago on the list).
>
>         I don't want promoters to have "higher" goals than other ravers!  I
> want us to be working together toward the same goals...
>
> >and they will try harder not to fuck up, cause they know that
> >people are counting on them.  But when you assume a promoter is going to
> >fuck up...
>
>         If someone with a history of crashing his car while drunk is
> spotted weaving down the road with a can of beer in one hand, it's not
> unreasonable to assume they're going to have an accident.
>
>        This is less about assumptions than behavior.  Instead of blaming
> bad results on a lack of trust and support from the community, let's look
> at the behavior that fuels the mistrust and try to change it.  If the
> mistrust is unwarranted, then let's prove that by coming clean on the
> information.
>
>         Just shutting up the critics won't solve anything, in fact it will
> make the situation worse.
>
> and you let them know (via this list) before the party even takes
> >place....  Then Why are you all so surprised when it actually happens.
> >Positive Thought is a Major Contributor to Positive Output.
> >
> >Keep it Real.     Vlad
>
>         Yes, but all it takes for evil to triumph is for people of good
> will to do nothing.  Or, as Martin Luther King put it, injustice anywhere
> is a threat to justice everywhere.
>
>                                 <<< Starchild >>>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 02:09:01 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Happy Kids fun fun fun!!!
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Hello all you beautiful happy happy people!! :)
My quick review....
IT WAS DOPE!!!!
I met so many of you sfravers :)  thanks jeremy for introducing me too 
these wonderful souls...
i was soo happy there was some jungle :), i wasnt expecting it...
ya know a friend and i were talking.... like.. so many people say they 
"love" jungle, yet whenever it starts playing the room seems to thiin 
out.... its all good... more room for me to dance :) hehehehe
ok ok ok
after party at adams.. thank you for your hospitality and warm, cushiony 
blankets and pillows :)
slumber party.... yeah letsz throw a rave slumber party! hehehehe
well im home now.. its 6:00 (pm)
time for Bio.....
I love you guys :)
peace
Philip
disordr


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 02:28:05 1998
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Subject: RE: ORIGIN- reply
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:30:36 -0700
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did anyone else feel completely patronized by this post?  it sounds like
a speech that has been rehearsed over and over until it sounds just
right..  

	"I know that I am a good person, I don't rip people off and I
have made good contributions to the scene. In my heart I know the truth
and I can say that I do learn every day of my life."    

oh brother >eyeroll<...right now your heart seems to be full of
something else...  *8)

TO REITERATE: the one thing that will put a stop to the endless number
of Nomad posts...and what i hope we're all looking for... is to find out
that outstanding bills are paid!  until then, these words are
meaningless.


miragirl

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	thenomad [SMTP:thenomad@pacbell.net]
> Sent:	Sunday, December 14, 1997 6:44 PM
> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject:	ORIGIN- reply
> 
> I am going to post one final letter. Granted, I am not as well versed
> on
> the finer points of composing and disecting all these posts and
> frankly
> I don't have time to address each and every one of them. 
> 
> I have posted individually to alot of people and I am not sure if they
> received the posts, but I would like to set the record straight and
> post
> publicly in the hopes that this can be put to rest. 
> 
> I am truly disheartened that just the accusations alone can imply that
> a
> person is guilty of something they are not.  I don't care how you see
> it. I know the truth and the truth is that we (Nomad) have NOT written
> any bad checks. I don't have to elaborate. I know the truth and so do
> others. Vortexbrad was never even a vendor for our new years party yet
> he feels he can post about it. 
> 
> It is unfortunate that I am not as quick on the internet as all of you
> proficient computer people are, and I have already been tried, judged
> and discarded until your next topic comes up. 
> 
> I don't have the time or energy to reply to everyone who posted on
> this
> matter. I don't think a normal pperson would want to. You people have
> really shown how much hatred you have in your hearts and how
> disrespectful you are to the scene and the different types of people
> there are in it. Most of you haven't been around a long time yet you
> act
> as if you know everything and as if you have a right to judge people. 
> 
> I know that I am a good person, I don't rip people off and I have made
> good contributions to the scene. In my heart I know the truth and I
> can
> say that I do learn every day of my life. Sometimes I learn more from
> a
> 16 year old than a 40 year old person. 
> 
> This experience has been an extremely hurtful experience for me and I
> hope that you are all very happy to hear that. I am sure that this was
> your agenda to begin with.
> 
>  I thought for a moment that I could learn a few things from you and
> you
> could share your insight and what was important to you and we could
> improve certain things. 
> 
> But now I know, that what is important to most of you who have posted,
> is a chance to put people down and try to discourage them and hurt
> their
> spirit and that is the biggest crime of all. 
> 
> Stacey @ Nomad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 02:59:11 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:58:37 EST
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Subject: happy kidz
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oh my god.
what a party.

i arrived kinda late, like 12:30 which was pretty stupid since the party only
lasted until 4. but anywayz, this was the second party i had been to at the
maritime and i really dont like the location.  i dunno what it is but i always
feel like i'm in school or something and its hard for me to get into it. but
the muzic was SOOOO good that nothing could hold me back, not even being stone
sober the whole night. i spent most of my time downstairs and the music was
just fucking wild.  sweat dripping from the ceiling made it feel like it was
raining harder inside than outside. the only thing that sucked was the room
was so slippiry from all the sweat and gunk on the floor and they enforced the
new smoking law which surprised me. but newayz, the only people i remeber
seeing spin were mars and mystere who laid down some phat beats. all of the
truly beautiful people were just going NUCKING FUTS!!! so many nice beautiful
people. it was one of those parties where you wake up in the afternoon and you
just feel at peace and that life is a beautiful beautiful thing. thank you
happy kids!!!!!!

blake

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 03:13:18 1998
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I had a picture just swim into my head while
out playing in the rain...

I would like to get a couple hundred people together
to spell out sfraves and some other words with their bodies.

It would be interesting to have a video of a mass of poeple
standing around randomly walking around downtown and then the music 
starts and they start dancing and then as the dance and 
music build, people dance into a pattern that can be seen from overhead
as the words, sfraves, peace, plur, love etc.

Perhaps we can dance an entire poem or story. 

anyone interested in dancing, writing the poem, filming,
playing or creating the music, directing or any other
part of this?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 04:06:14 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a027e46.34b99511@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:59:12 EST
To: CheerioHN@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: this is neat...
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The little something Jill sent reminded me of my favorite poem, it's by e e
cummings, one dope poet, so I hope you all enjoy this.  Hope your weekend was
fun, and so sorry I missed happy kids, I was sick and asleep with the flu.
Ms. K1dd


anyone lived in a pretty how town

anyone lived in a pretty how town
(with up as floating many bells down)
spring summer autumn winter
he sang his didn't he danced his did.

Women and men(both little and small)
cared for anyone not at all
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
sun moon stars rain

children guessed(but only a few
and down they forgot as up they grew
autumn winter spring summer)
that noone loved him more by  more

when by  now and tree by leaf
she laughed his joy she cried his grief
bird by snow and stir by still
anyone's any was all to her

someones married their everyones
laughed their cryings and did their dance
(sleep wake hope and then)they
said their nevers they slept their dreams

stars rain sun moon
(and only the snow can begin to explain
how children are apt to forget to remember
with up so floating many bells down)

one day anyone died i guess
(and noone stopped to kiss his face)
busy folk buried them side by side
little by little and was by was

all by all and deep by deep
and more by more they dream their sleep
noone and anyone earth by april
wish by spirit and if by  yes.

Women and men(both dong and ding)
summer autumn winter spring
reaped their sowing and went their came
sun moon stars rain
			
		e. e. cummings

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 04:12:15 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <783b454a.34b997c4@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:10:43 EST
To: Nycra@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: happy kidz
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In a message dated 98-01-11 21:59:20 EST, Nycra@aol.com writes:

<<  sweat dripping from the ceiling made it feel like it was
 raining harder inside than outside. >>

We all know at the cyborganic location, this meant a leaky toilet :)
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 04:16:12 1998
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Anyone heard of, or have, a song called "Dreams of Avarice" by Avarice?
DJ Special K used to spin it at Release and I can't find him anywhere!
Brilliant positive trance song! It has a helicopter fly by in the middle
of it, but only then.

Also looking for a slow, almost ambient version of "Fruit of Love" by
Transformer 2 that builds to a byou-t-ful peak!!!! Jimmy Zimms from
Sacto played it at my party on Pier 15 in 96, and I can't find it. He
played it as the sun came up, and we rolled up the back doors of the
pier and pushed everyone out on the patio to watch the sun rise. Most
fucking brilliant way to end a party!!

Please help a poor, lost raver find his toons!

bunny


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 04:57:57 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:00:41 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Country Techno
Cc: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>, Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>,
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Dear Rave Friends,

        I think this is fertile ground... I enjoyed The Grid's "Texas
Cowboys", "Cotton-Eyed Joe" from the Rednex, and on a more ambient note,
the hauntingly beautiful "Build A Fire" from the KLF.
        Why not a song about gun racks in pickup trucks, achy-breaky
hearts, and mama & apple pie?   8)  I like the idea foolish fish describes
below, with the line dancing candy ravers.
        For a country rave, I say we get the guys in the cleansuits from
the Intel commercial dancing around with the computers, and put some cowboy
hats and boots on them.  Put them in a warehouse decorated like a big barn,
with visuals of an animated horse galloping across the screen over and over
again.  I can see the breakdancing crowd getting into some good
old-fashioned lasso-dancing circles, can't you?

                                <<< Starchild >>>

>I never really like country either but maybe it might be intersting
>to do some twangy techo samples about the misses running
>away with the dawg and leaving us with nothin but our
>bottle of jack daniels. A bunch of glittery candy ravers
>doing a line dance to techo twang might be interesting.
>Of course if we are going to do a line dance it would
>have to be early in the night cause latter on i dought
>if most could even walk a straight line let alone dance
>one.
>
>Maybe we could introduce a new improved vErsion of EnsurE
>and take it to a squarE dancE and thEn as thE Evening
>progrEssed we could mix in a little techno twang and sEE
>what happens.
>
>        ><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>                foolish fish



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 04:58:07 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:00:46 -0800
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: PLUR bashing (was promoter bashing)
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>Feel Good Entertainment is dedicated to spreading the positive philosophy of
>PLUR to as many people as possible, and it is our sincere hope that the message
>of PLUR that we promote today will influence the minds of the leaders of
>tomorrow, and help create a better world for our children's children.

>Keep it Real.     Vlad

Hear hear!  Spread it AND keep it real... I'm with you on this one.  Phat
props to you for thinking big...

Much love,
                                <<< Starchild >>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 04:58:11 1998
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To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: PLUR bashing (was promoter bashing)
Cc: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>, Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
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Dear Rave Friends,

        In Texas, they have road signs that say "Drive Friendly".  I like
that.  Anyway, to the point of my message...

        These phrases may seem somewhat hackneyed, but they also become
history.  "Peace, brother," "you dig, man?" etc., get quasi-permanently
associated with the psychedelic '60s, reminding people of the grooviness
that took place then.

        I believe language influences reality.  Sometimes, when someone
tells me to "have a nice day," the cliche rings sincere, and it actually
DOES help me to have a nice day.

        I'd much rather have the rave scene remembered for adding "PLUR" to
the common language, than for the phrase "smack my bitch up" (no thank you,
Prodigy).

May the vibe be with us,
                              <<< Starchild >>>

>The problem is that phrases like "Drive carefully" and "Have a nice
>day" have become hackneyed and no longer mean anything at all to
>anyone.  Plus, anytime midia conglomerates or big, heartless
>corporations get their hands on an idea or movement like this they
>stick it in people's face until it loses all meaning.  Look at what
>people think when you say "Peace, brother." or something along those
>lines . . .  You are a dirty hippy throw-back.
>
>Look for PLUR to be used in a Fruitopia ad in the next year.
>
>Now, of course, it's a beautiful concept, but we have to be careful
>not to kill it with over use.
>
>Okay,
>Steve.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 04:58:59 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:01:37 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: are you a participant?
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Dear Rave Friends,

       Ray Vonie shared (in reply to Ben Chun):

>I can see how my statement can throw you off.  So let me expand on exactly how
>i feel about this.  First of all... We Are ALL Ravers here.  However, there is
>a certain creativity that goes into producing an event.  That is the difference
>between a raver and a producer.  Take for example an artist, that creates
>artwork.  without admirers, his work would go unnoticed, and just be a hobby.
>But people who admire art, also critique it highly, because they did not create
>it.  The same thing is true here.  producers put a lot of creativity into their
>events.  Be it Organizational creativity, Artistic creativity, Musical
>creativity... and so on.  They do this because this is their outlet.  And just
>like the artists, they want to change peoples perception, and influence
>people.  Rave producers ar the same way... They need an audience... they need
>to feel that their efforts are justified and being enjoyed by the masses.  That
>something positive is coming from their frustration and effort.  That is were
>there needs to be a separation.   We are all creative people, and just like an
>art exposition, were there are artists and art lovers....  A rave two must have
>its producers and participants, or else there becomes an unbalance.  It sure
>would be kind of funny if you could go to a art gallery or a museum, and add
>your personal touch to any artwork you felt like.  It just wouldn't be
>respectful of the art or it's artist.  Well likewise in this scene, ravers need
>to enjoy the 12 hour masterpiece created by the produce....  That is what gives
>the producer their zest to pursue other avenues of creativity, and produce
>better and more creative events.
>
>> for myself, i want to be a part of a rave community that is on the other
>> side of that line, where i am not merely a consumer of the "rave party
>> product" that someone else creates for me to "have fun... and support" but
>> rather where i am a PART of the rave itself, where of course there are
>> organizers but everyone including them is a participant in the true sense
>> of the word. a party that we throw for each other.
>
>This is a very wonderful concept, and in many aspects it takes place already.
>Just by participating, you are becoming the most important part of the
>creation.  You are the purpose.  You are the reason why the party is there...
>its for YOU.. For everyone that wants it.  That is the beauty of it all.

        The toilet paper you buy from a shelf in the store also exists for
you; for everyone who wants it.  That's all well and good; I mean products
designed with the consumer in mind sure beats the hell out of centrally
planned production as an economic model, but I think what Ben was saying is
that he wants the rave experience to be more than just another consumer
product.  Raves *are* more than simply people coming to be entertained by
the creative work of a few.

        A few days ago, I visited the SF Museum of Modern Art (free
admission the first Wednesday of each month -- check it out!) and had a
conversation with one of the docents who was giving a guided tour.

        The MOMA's art installations included, on the fourth floor, a room
full of canvases with only white painted brushstrokes on them, and on the
fifth floor, a string of 42 normal electric lightbulbs hanging from the
wall.

        Of course at the MOMA, you aren't supposed to touch, let alone "add
your personal touch" to any of the "artwork".  Why, I wanted to know,
should a public museum display a normal string of lights hanging from a
wall as "art"?  If such is fit for display, why shouldn't the public be
allowed to come in and create this kind of "art"?

        I asked the docent a hypothetical question:  If someone broke in at
night with a cow (I have a book of college pranks called "If At All
Possible, Involve A Cow"), and had the cow take a shit on the middle of the
floor, and then the person marked off the area with ticker tape, would this
be "art"?  She replied that the curators of the museum decide what is and
isn't art.  She then took me into an adjoining room, where lo and behold,
there was a photograph of horse dung hanging on the wall.

        If you're looking for a nice, neat summation of my conclusions from
this experience, unfortunately there isn't one.  I invite you to draw your
own.  ;)  I will say that I wouldn't be in favor of allowing members of the
public to add personal touches to works by artists like Van Gogh and
Rembrandt, or even to most works on display at most museums.  But I wish
museums in general were more interactive.  Clearly some people are more
talented at creating things than others, but everyone has the potential for
creativity, and there should be at least as many public forums for
creating, as for viewing creations, in my opinion.

        Bringing this back to raving, I feel that promoters should strive
to produce more interactive parties, and fewer "12 hour masterpieces" that
must be supported and appreciated, but not examined too closely.

>> to be fair, some people might WANT to purchase "rave party product" which
>> requires nothing of them, asks nothing of them. in my mind, that is why
>> companies like nomad exist. for them, the "rave party" is a business. and i
>> hold nothing against them for making it their business, but the parties
>> they throw under such a value system are not something i am interested in
>> attending or supporting. additionally, their integrity within such a
>> business is not something i'm qualified to comment upon. =)
>
>Rave producers are no different than DJ's.  DJ's have their sets, and their
>particular styles, and someday you may love what they play, and other days you
>don't.  The dj's produce their sets in an effort to bring people together
>through dance and music.  EVERY Rave producer I know has the exact same
>intentions!!!  But just like you wouldn't go up to a DJ and start playing with
>the mixer during their set because you think it would sound better...  You
>surely can not judge a producer and tell them how they need to do their parties
>just because they had a one or two bad events.   Everyone is always receptive
>to criticism, but the concept of RESPECT maintains a line between the creator
>and the observer.  That is the point that I was trying to make.

        While it would be disrespectful to fiddle with a DJ's equipment
during his/her set without permission, I don't find it disrespectful to
voice opinions as to how events should be put on.  I admire those
creators/artists/producers who love to teach their skills by involving
others in the process of creation, and who conciously and deliberately blur
the line between creator and observer.

>> if more people recognized this core issue of what different production
>> companies and collectives see the attendee's role as, i think we would have
>> a stronger community making better decisions about what we want raving to
>> be! it's been said before, but i'm going to say it again and please, think
>> about what it really means to... "KEEP IT REAL."
>
>Of all people.. I wouldn't be surprised if I am the one that says this the
>most.  :)   But You are right... It is important for the ENTIRE community to
>understand each other as well as each others desires and directions...  or else
>WE can not call ourselves a community at all.

        Yes... in my view, this understanding is facilitated by the free
flow of information.  This covers everything from DJ's not covering up the
labels on the records they spin to promoters revealing their costs and
profits.

May the vibe be with us,
                                <<< Starchild >>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 05:13:25 1998
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From: Karma2001 <Karma2001@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f81ff945.34b99e75@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:39:17 EST
To: Karma2001@aol.com, poobear@HOTMAIL.COM, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Where did everybody go????
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I wanted to see how everyones evening was at happy kids and only about 5
people said anything.....what up with that?????   <3*Mushy!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 05:53:26 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:53:13 +0000
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	I got there early around 8:30 (I didn't want to miss Uncle Noah's 
set :D).. and waited in line a few minutes w/ Guy.. nice chatting 
with ya. 
	Once inside.. I explored the place real quick.. since it was 
my first time there.. then stayed on the main dance floor.. getting 
down to Uncle Noah's awesome set. (I was the one in the funky gold, 
 silver, white and grey shirt). It was definitely worth getting there 
early for. I noticed he even had his cool Mr. Potato Head up on the 
decks while spinning... cute. ;-)
	Through Elte's and Carlos' sets who tore it up as usual, I 
alternated between upstairs and downstairs.. (I couldn't decide what 
I liked best they were all so  good.) After that I took a break and 
chilled in the chill room for a while... I lost my watch recently.. 
so it was nice to be able to just look outside at the BofA building 
and see what time it was.
	I went downstairs afterwards.. and Mars & Mystere were tearing it 
up.. wow. I was caught up in it.. and even though there was only 
enough room to wiggle and the room was dripping.. I was in the middle 
of the crowd with only a short break for water for the rest of the 
evening. 
	Sorry I was too busy getting down to meet most of you S.F. Ravers.. 
but I had a wonderful evening.. and was indeed a Happy Kid.

-Faro
 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 05:58:57 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:58:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Subject: I'm BAAAAACK :)))))
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Hi Peeps and ParoleKatz,

	This lidda Buddahflye is back in town, and will be around for a
couple more moons :)  I had a good time in SoCal (believe it or not) due
to the efforts and good vibe of Noah A. (HI UNCLE NOAH!!! *hugs*) and a
"proper" intro to some of those SCRubbers out there at the ODP New Year's
bash.  And sorry to say, this lidda buddaflye had a bit too much ambrosia
from the potatoe god (courtesy Smirnoff) and was rather, er, flighty...I'm
a very nice person, really--I am ;) I wonderful highlight was
deflowering Elizabeth with Vick's and Vaseline and vavavoom a vibrating
MR. Potato-Head...think kleen Peeps; it was her first mescaline after
all:) Thanks for the eXelLent mixtape DJ Thomas, U 'da Bomb--literaly, so
to speak; sorry I was such a jerk towards the end, the twinkies made me do
it, I swear. And HughMungo *hugs* to all those other ppls I met but can't
remember and I hope my dayglo orange trousers didn't give any of you a bad
trip :)
	Did I see you at 1015 Folsom's X'th Dig Be-In Friday...did you see
me? Again, I was agent orange with red-pack to go and havin' lots of fun
during DJ Carlos's awwwwesome upstairs set. Unfortunately, I was too
burned out to go out yesterday...did I miss Happy Kids? Please tell me I
didn't...Oh well, we'll party again Noah!


:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 06:03:29 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Damn, Damn, Damn...I missed it.  And all for what?  Good Will Hunting and
a couple o' pints at Jupiters. Oh well, sleeping was kinda nice wid the
raindrops hitting my window n'stuff.


:)
M&m



On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Faro wrote:

> 	I got there early around 8:30 (I didn't want to miss Uncle Noah's 
> set :D).. and waited in line a few minutes w/ Guy.. nice chatting 
> with ya. 
> 	Once inside.. I explored the place real quick.. since it was 
> my first time there.. then stayed on the main dance floor.. getting 
> down to Uncle Noah's awesome set. (I was the one in the funky gold, 
>  silver, white and grey shirt). It was definitely worth getting there 
> early for. I noticed he even had his cool Mr. Potato Head up on the 
> decks while spinning... cute. ;-)
> 	Through Elte's and Carlos' sets who tore it up as usual, I 
> alternated between upstairs and downstairs.. (I couldn't decide what 
> I liked best they were all so  good.) After that I took a break and 
> chilled in the chill room for a while... I lost my watch recently.. 
> so it was nice to be able to just look outside at the BofA building 
> and see what time it was.
> 	I went downstairs afterwards.. and Mars & Mystere were tearing it 
> up.. wow. I was caught up in it.. and even though there was only 
> enough room to wiggle and the room was dripping.. I was in the middle 
> of the crowd with only a short break for water for the rest of the 
> evening. 
> 	Sorry I was too busy getting down to meet most of you S.F. Ravers.. 
> but I had a wonderful evening.. and was indeed a Happy Kid.
> 
> -Faro
>  
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 06:12:50 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:15:25 -0800
To: thenomad@pacbell.net
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: ORIGIN- reply
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Dear Stacey,

        I don't know if you've attempted to send one, but I have not
received an individual reply from you.  I have not judged you, and am not
trying to hurt you, however I would still like to hear your side of the
story, which I feel you haven't told.

        For instance you mentioned a significant financial commitment to
your space, but you didn't mention how much.  You mentioned specific
amounts of a couple repair bills you incurred from other events, but
without the context of how much you took in, how many people in attendance,
what the expenses were, etc., it's hard to draw any conclusions.

        I have to say that from my outside perspective, unless you post
some concrete details, you APPEAR guilty as hell, and at present I'm likely
to avoid your parties.  It would be sad if I (and I'm sure others) are
mistaken about this, but continue to believe it simply because you are
unwilling to post the facts that would clear your name.

        If, on the other hand, you are guilty as charged, then it makes
sense that you would not want to provide details.

May the vibe be with us,
                                <<< Starchild >>>

>I am going to post one final letter. Granted, I am not as well versed on
>the finer points of composing and disecting all these posts and frankly
>I don't have time to address each and every one of them.
>
>I have posted individually to alot of people and I am not sure if they
>received the posts, but I would like to set the record straight and post
>publicly in the hopes that this can be put to rest.
>
>I am truly disheartened that just the accusations alone can imply that a
>person is guilty of something they are not.  I don't care how you see
>it. I know the truth and the truth is that we (Nomad) have NOT written
>any bad checks. I don't have to elaborate. I know the truth and so do
>others. Vortexbrad was never even a vendor for our new years party yet
>he feels he can post about it.
>
>It is unfortunate that I am not as quick on the internet as all of you
>proficient computer people are, and I have already been tried, judged
>and discarded until your next topic comes up.
>
>I don't have the time or energy to reply to everyone who posted on this
>matter. I don't think a normal pperson would want to. You people have
>really shown how much hatred you have in your hearts and how
>disrespectful you are to the scene and the different types of people
>there are in it. Most of you haven't been around a long time yet you act
>as if you know everything and as if you have a right to judge people.
>
>I know that I am a good person, I don't rip people off and I have made
>good contributions to the scene. In my heart I know the truth and I can
>say that I do learn every day of my life. Sometimes I learn more from a
>16 year old than a 40 year old person.
>
>This experience has been an extremely hurtful experience for me and I
>hope that you are all very happy to hear that. I am sure that this was
>your agenda to begin with.
>
> I thought for a moment that I could learn a few things from you and you
>could share your insight and what was important to you and we could
>improve certain things.
>
>But now I know, that what is important to most of you who have posted,
>is a chance to put people down and try to discourage them and hurt their
>spirit and that is the biggest crime of all.
>
>Stacey @ Nomad



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 07:05:53 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:05:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: :)
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Hi Kids.
<SFRavers>: Hi Uncle Noah.

Welp folks, I had a splendid 28-hour hit-and-run visit by the Bay!  I 
would like to publicly thank my wonderful hostess and kind-hearted 
chauffeur, Diana Greer, for putting up with my bullshit and making sure 
that I got where I need to go and still had a really goot time n'stuff!  
You're the best!

I really liked the Maritime Hall.  I'm a sucker for nice city views and 
the view out that window (before it fogged up) was really amazing.  It 
was really great to be there, too, because the last time I was at that 
venue was to see James Brown like 2 years ago.  That's why I played 
"James Brown is Dead" and that Coldcut "Payback Megamix" when we were 
tryin out the sound right before opening. :)  I thought the decorations 
looked really great, and that huge visuals screen sure was fun!  The 
downstairs area was wonderfully cozy and vibey.  I didn't spend too much 
time down there, but it seems like a nice spot to get your groove on!
 
I met a grip of SFRavers and I *FINALLY* got to meet DJ Noah!!!  Though I 
missed his grooves, it sure was nice to finally get to see the guy! :D

In some ways I expected this visit to satiate some of my longings for The 
Scene up there... kinda like getting my SF fix for a little while or 
something... but what actually happened was that I came home thinking 
"Man-o-man I gotta get back up there soon!!" :)

So, if any reputable promoters are in need of a breakbeat DJ from SoCal, 
drop me a line :)

I'm sure I'll see all you kids soon, but not soon enough! :)
Thank you Happy Kids and thank you SFRavers for making it such a fun weekend!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 07:11:54 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Acid Breaks review (short)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:11:44 -0800
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First off I would like to say..Hi everybody! 
 And I'm sorry I turned out so weird.  =]:. .

 Ghost Tribe did a great job on the party. The lights were in the right
place, the banners, the water booth, bathrooms just where they should
be..They're not out to steal your backpacks! The "G-HOST" tribe appears to
me to be, just a bunch of ravErs living out their dreams.. Positive /
Normal human behavior.  =]..

  I feel I could of helped out on the sound staging alittle bit. It seems
like with that venue, it is crucial to have your rooms facing back to back.
The Acid Breaks room was bleeding into the Jungle room enough to throw you
off rhythm. Although FLUX found a way to filter out distractions. I think
back to back across the building, leaving a muffled ear plug sounding large
hallway heading towards the bathrooms, main sound stage facing the DJ
trapped in the corner facing the speakers. Woh.. That woulda been cool..

 Personal opinions on the Acid Break room.. Too slow.. Carlos had trouble
speeding his set up! Everyone else seemed to be slowing it down trying to
keep a steady m-e-l-l-o-w vibe (atmosphere) the whole night. I need
stimulants! I completely run on the energy of music (in this case music).
 It's so real...the music actually fills my body with carbs or something. I
can go as long as the fuel lasts. And the fuel coming from the main room
was not giving me any power AT ALL.. I was hoping I would get up to that
point where I can start experimenting with new motions. The music in the
main room left me unattached. I couldn't hop on that track last
night.

 It's totally phenomenal. I truly do feel healthier when the music has
more energy..
 Lately I have been spoiling myself with that high-energy house stuff at
Nikita Friday nights. And being able to grip a cold beer on the dance
floor don't hurt either - my mind is wondering...you with me?
  I just was not hip to that frequency last night. Perhaps if I were able
to relax with one of thoughs cold beers in my hand while I "PARTIED" my
way!!
 Is that how slow Acid Break is suppose to be? I can move that slowly with
the right motivation. Dancing that slow can infact be stimulating in the
right mind frame. Beer! Get a couple beers in me I will drop down to that
speed. I could of effortlessly turned that slow energy into something
perhaps...explicit. If I were to have been feeling allitle more LOOSE perhaps!
 Am I talking to much?
 
 Smooth.. Anyone find that word to be uncomfortable? I used that word once
to compliment a guy on his breaks(break dancing). Dood thought I was either
hitting on him or being sarcastic, either way his response made me feel
some what depressed.
 Strange to, that was at what couldn't of been more than my fourth ravE. No
one even thinks they know me at this point in time. Dancing to tekno
took effort back then, I had not yet reached that point where you actually
surf the music. Infact it was the following ravE that I found out you can
stole-away on that musical journey  (tekno-ly speaking) 

 Hmmm.. I wonder...
 Well it's just that my parents were always on valiums when I was growing
up.. Beer just calms my nerves.. You ever heard that song that goes, "the
freaks come out at night"? Well that's me. I completely change at night. I
don't actually have knowledge into the true lyrics of the song.. 
  I think I should be allowed to drink beer at ravEs. . Think of it like a
translator, to able me to intermingle within a large scale social
environment. Yea.. }:\.. It's MY party though.  It's like I am not allowed to enjoy
my party with the way I want to. Stimulants! Stimulants!

  It's just amazing at times. I think most people would be amazed at the
amount of vibe I can pick up. Vibe to me goes beyond some feeling in a
room. It's everything.. It truly is an energy form. And it pours out from our
eyes like guiding lasers.. You can feel the energy glowing around everyone,
pushing against one another. The whole elbow room thing applies somewhere..
  When I goto a ravE. I just feel like this vibe magnet.. I take in
uncontrollable amounts of vibe. No bullshit, I have had many hours handed
down to me to proove these theories.
 And one explanation I can give for my weirdness. I can't seem to stop myself
from blocking vibes. If I sense vibes that can potentially cause an over load of
50/50 (good/bad) vibes and even impressions. And without having a grip on it,
I woos out and take the easy way out. STOP VIBE IN IT"S TRACKS! Something
I need to reverse.......no.......because it makes me uncomfertable when I close up
like that.
  I close up for what seems like no reason at times. And it happens so fast. Yep.
      Weird.. That sense of vibe I get though....I feel it. Not everywhere..
 People getting pissed at me? What about me? It's not like I act that way
 everywhere, all the time, around everybody!
 But like knowing is half the battle right? Still with me?

 I'm usually a rather private person.. You ravErs sure gottah way at poking
into shit though.. You make up possibilities and wait for reaction. Like
having people of different life stiles walk by me to see which one
stimulates me the most?? First time I actually witnessed this was Mega
Buzz, someone premeditatedly directed a cast of members to walk past me one
after the other, to see which one I would "check out" more....Don't you
think me knowing about this might change my reaction to it for one? =]:.. 
  It's just funny.. I am weird to everyone, that makes me kind of special I
think. haha..

Back to the MUSIC.
 It infact does create vibe. It just gives me that extra power I thrive on
the dance floor and it is as real as vitamin C. I would have to assume it
gives all of us similar powers.. 

 And coming to to a screeching halt.
Somewhere up there I beleive you will find in depth reports on Acid Breaks. 
Good luck finding them.


Acid Breaks  *** three stars for Peace, Unity, and Respect..
 The party (rave) was well under control, everything by the book.

 And last but not least. The VIBE.. From my perspective?  =]:..
I don't want to say cliques, because it wasn't like that to me. Seemed more
like peacefull congregations. Everyone appeared to be getting along. A great
mix of people dealing with differences, except for me.

 No one can deal with MY differences though. I do not feel I was punished
with bad vibes or anything but, there were alot of pretty pissed off women
floating around the place. Spite and alot of "pressure" vibes floating my direction,
to be expected. I just can't seem to respond to pressure in a submisfull fasion.
 Asking might be a better approach, perhaps give it a try.. I don't lie...


 So much for small talk.
  Jeff nStuff



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 07:43:23 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:46:13 -0800
To: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
From: Megan Haggerty <megan@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: ORIGIN- reply
Cc: thenomad@pacbell.net, Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 10:15 PM -0800 1/11/98, Starchild wrote:
>Dear Stacey,
(snip)
>        I have to say that from my outside perspective, unless you post
>some concrete details, you APPEAR guilty as hell, and at present I'm likely
>to avoid your parties.  It would be sad if I (and I'm sure others) are
>mistaken about this, but continue to believe it simply because you are
>unwilling to post the facts that would clear your name.
(snip)

Some have compred this thread to a "witch hunt" or called it promoter
bashing.  I disagree with those characterizations of this discussion.  I
think Starchild is right.  People are simply trying to give nomad a chance
to redeem themselves.  We don't want the allegations against them to be
true.  We want them to come to us and say everything has been taken care
of.  But, sadly, it doesn't seem to be happening.  We may be left with no
choice but to believe they are guilty.

For those who have grown tired of this discussion, I sympathize, even
empathize, with you.  It has been going on for a while.  But ignoring an
unresloved situation for the sake of more "pleasant" conversation will only
prove detrimental in the end.  Any issue which is not resolved with
inevitably resurface.  So if the conversation gets too uncomfortable for
some of you, just remember that those involved are simply trying to get to
the bottom of a sensitve & frustrating situation.  If we can avoid having
to deal with something like this again, I think it's worth the effort.

Megan



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 08:27:29 1998
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Subject: I am one happy kid!
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Woah...where should I start? Lets see...Skye, Lesley, Jeremy, adn me arrived
at the maritime around 1pm or so to help set up 'n stuff. That went pretty
smooth (kinda hectic at times). There was so much to do! We were there till
about 6pm or so when we went out to run some erronds, get something to eat,
and change. We got back around 8 or so and the first person i saw in line was
haze and rudi ( that started my evening off right!) We then went inside when i
saw most of the people that were setting up that day (lara, tall paul, doreen,
marty,  and a whole buncha other peepes). I was dancing crazy through uncle
noah's set. PHAT BREAKS!!! I thought that the whole chef outfit was hella
tight! (uncle noah, thanks for the cracker with cheese! yummy!) After dancing
for a while, i ran into a whole bunch of friends that i hadnt seen in a really
long time. Now i was really happy! I ran into mushyB (hey girl!) who had on
the cutest pig tails I had ever seen! =)  after dancing for a while, i started
cruing around to see who had arrived. It was o wonderfull to see all those
happy people! I didnt spend that much time in the downstairs room too much
mainly because it was hotter than hell, and i'm not exactly the biggest fan of
jungle. 
For some reason or anouther, I was SOOO tired by 12 or 1 that I couldnt dance
anymore. This was eally strange considering that I always dance way too much.
So i just spent the rest of the night wandering and chillin in the chill room
talking to peeps and getting to know those who I didnt know already. Its so
kewl the things you find out when you just sit down and talk to people for a
LONG time! 
   Thank you to all the SFR peeps who made this one special evening, and to
everyone else who I ran into. i love you all and I hope to see all of you
again soon(maybe sooner!)

                                 Peace, Love, and Hairgrease,

                                             MarQ

             "The dream of my life is much better than my life itself."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 09:42:11 1998
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From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Before techno? was: Re: music and time
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 03:08 PM 1/9/98 -0800, k bOOM wrote:
>Oh yeah. How could I possibly forget Skinny Puppy. And Hilt. And although
this
>goes a bit out of the line of thought Download, the current living
incarnation of
>Skinny Puppy is quite a bit of a head stretcher.

Not really, their most recent album "III" is *very* techno/ambientish, and
quite good.  

What was *I* into before techno?  Hmm.  Lots of your typical top
alternative stuff of the 80's (like Depeche Mode, New Order, REM, Smiths,
Wire, U2, etc), a fair bit of industrial (Front 242, Frontline Assembly,
PIL, old Ministry), and just about anything on 4AD (this mortal coil,
cocteau twins, his name is alive, the pixies, etc).  But I am having a very
hard time finding that line between "techno" and "non-techno" these days -
for example, Colin Newman from Wire is one of the guys behind Swim, a great
new dance/ambient label; U2 and Brian Eno collaborated on an album called
"Passengers" which has a really great song I use in ambient sets; and then
there's guys like Bill Laswell, who has been producing, playing bass, and
writing his own stuff for over 20 years now and was behind everything from
"World Destruction" by Timezone to a boatload of recent CD's on the FAX
record label.  Music is now this one fucking huge continuum of styles and
histories being blended together in amazing ways; and I wish more fans of
techno were interested in looking at the boundaries of their genres.  My
favorite thing about Depeche Mode was always the b-sides anyways, *many* of
whom would be quite suitable for a main floor at a massive in 1997.  

	Brian

 
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 15:06:41 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:04:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: South africa vs. SF scene
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Hey girl,

Actually, its pretty hard to compare the two. South
Africa is the bomb, then again so is SF. I have lived
in both places and I agree South Africa is deffinately
superb in many ways, but so is SF. Take the good out of
everything you do and try not to compare. A party is
what you make it period. Our scene does not suck,
trust me try going out in some of our lovely mid-west
towns
we have a lot to be thankful for.

LL

P.S. I have some rocking video of parties in South
Africa if you are interested.





 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 15:46:50 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: ORIGIN- reply
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HMMM sounded more like she was trying to convince
herself - no really - I'm a good person. Stacey you
probably are a good person, just don't try to convince
us of it. Usually people can make their own
determinations of individuals, without them having to
explain how good they are.
Thanks anyway,

LL







---mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
>
> did anyone else feel completely patronized by this
post?  it sounds like
> a speech that has been rehearsed over and over
until it sounds just
> right..  

> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 16:49:52 1998
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From: "Thomas, Cassandra" <cthomas@kmd-arch.com>
To: Raves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: FW: [sfwg] (off topic) FCC and ISP / phone company fees
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:54:15 -0800
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"Cassandra Ann Thomas

"I  do not say,however, that every delusion or wandering of the  mind
should be called  madness."
Erasmus of Rotterdam 


> ----------
> From: 	susan farrell[SMTP:winsom@netgate.net]
> Sent: 	Saturday, January 10, 1998 12:15 AM
> To: 	webgrrls-sf@cgim.com
> Subject: 	[sfwg] (off topic) FCC and ISP / phone company fees
> 
> Just got this from another list. BTW, I wrote to the FCC during the
> original comment period, and they basically said that they weren't
> even
> entertaining the idea of stifling the online development by imposing
> the
> charges discussed. Wired covered this also, I think
> 
> susan
> 
> >>Copied from:
> http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html
> 
> THE FCC, INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS, AND ACCESS CHARGES
> 
> This fact sheet offers informal guidance on an issue that has
> generated a
> great deal of public interest. For more specific details about the
> proceedings currently before the Commission, please visit our web site
> (http://www.fcc.gov/).
> 
> In December 1996, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
> requested
> public comment on issues relating to the charges that Internet Service
> Providers (ISPs) and similar companies pay to local telephone
> companies. On
> May 7, 1997, the FCC decided to leave the existing rate
> structure in place. In other words, the FCC decided not to allow local
> telephone companies to impose per-minute access charged on ISPs.
> 
> Please Note: There is no open comment period in this proceeding. If
> you
> have recently seen a message on the Internet stating that in response
> to a
> request from local telephone companies, the FCC is requesting comments
> to
> <isp@fcc.gov> by February 1998, be aware that this
> information is inaccurate. <<
> 
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 17:38:27 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:32:44 EST
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In a message dated 1/10/98, ORIGIN wrote:

<<I know that I am a good person, I don't rip people off and I have made
good contributions to the scene. In my heart I know the truth and I can
say that I do learn every day of my life. >>
<<This experience has been an extremely hurtful experience for me and I
hope that you are all very happy to hear that. I am sure that this was
your agenda to begin with.>>

I am laughing *really* hard now....  =D  =D  =D  Is anyone else amused by this
plea for sympathy??  "We are Nomad.  We love you but you have hurt us.  We are
good people.  We care about you.  We love the scene.  We care not about money.
It is
all about learning and giving.  Now we are crushed....pity us...feel our
pain....we
thought we were in this together...."  
HAHAHAHAHAHA  I find this pretty amusing, since it is pretty far from the
truth.  Ah, freedom of speech.  Hey, but we know better.  And hopefully we
will all 
*remember* for the next time  :)

It's overwith so hopefully we learned our lesson and can move on!

natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 17:43:30 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:46:08 -0800
To: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
From: Megan Haggerty <megan@twenty-hz.com>
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Okay, okay... let's say that Stacey is a good person.  I believe she is.  I
believe most people are.  Given that, I also understand that good people
are capable of doing bad things.  That's what makes us human.  No one is
perfect or expects perfection from others.  But we all need to be held
accountable for our actions and do what is necessary to correct any
mistakes we might make.  You might be surprised at how many people forgive
you is you aceept responsibility for your actions, apologize, and correct
yourself.
Megan

At 7:43 AM -0800 1/12/98, Layne Loomis wrote:
>HMMM sounded more like she was trying to convince
>herself - no really - I'm a good person. Stacey you
>probably are a good person, just don't try to convince
>us of it. Usually people can make their own
>determinations of individuals, without them having to
>explain how good they are.
>Thanks anyway,
>
>LL
>
>---mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
>>
>> did anyone else feel completely patronized by this
>post?  it sounds like
>> a speech that has been rehearsed over and over
>until it sounds just
>> right..
>
>>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 17:47:49 1998
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From: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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Subject: KRR/SALE: DJ GEAR $1400!
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Look for DJ gear?? Well, my buddy is moving and
needs to get rid of his. So he's selling it...

. Technics 1200s x 2 
  (w/ Blue Ortfon Needles)

. Rane MP22X (1 Month Old)

$1400

If interested e-mail me <<privately>>.

another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 18:04:54 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:03:03 EST
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Subject: Happy Kids=happy natasha
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	I was feeling a bit under-the-weather Sat PM, but decided to head out to
Happy Kids to get the heck out of my apartment and forget about being sick...
MAN! I was sure happy I did - what a great evening!  I don't think I have ever
been to a happy kids event where there wasn't a good vibe - everybody was so
beautiful and happy and psyched about the music!!  
	
Carlos's set was *amazing* - he is so funny , jumping around and dancin all
over the place.  Totally amps up the energie!  And he's such a ham in front of
the  camera  =P~  DJ Noah's set was so full of energie I thought I was gonna
leap out of my skin!  Hella nice guy, too.  Didn't spend too much time
downstairs except to hear Mars&MysterE - it was so packed down there but I
just couldn't leave once I heard 'em rippin the place up Lots and lots of
energie everywhere!  I'm usually the "bring-yer-own-vibe"-kinda gal, but on
Sat, I was content to feed off of all the happy kids around me  :) It's pretty
funnie when I'm partying sober and peeps ask me if I'm on e   I take that as a
compliment!!  =P~  

Was great to meet haze (you are such a sweetie pie) and see Jeremy, Hai, Mike,
Mackdaddio, and get to meet Doreen and Clay. =)  I know I prolly met some
other peeps too, but I am so bad with names so forgive me!!  Everybody was in
the best of spirits and with the music being so full of energie, I don't see
how I coulda possibly had less than a spectacular time  :)

Luv hugs Kleenex n chicken soup (*sniff*)
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 18:04:59 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:31:05 -0800
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From: lUUNATiK <luunatik@192.122.209.42>
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happy happy happy happy HAPPY DAMN KIDS!   MAN This party was the bomb.
The No smoking thing was the only thing that I had to contend with.  Even
though I don't smoke, hangin' out in the bathroom so a couple friends
could, felt like highschool.  No offense, none at all but... Uhm... 

MARQ!!!  I love your colors!  So bright.. and uhm.. HAPPY!!!!!  (thats the
point, right?)

We got there about 10 o'clock, due to sleeping for a couple hours.. (gotta
be able to stay up ,right?)
and walked in upon the upstairs room.  It took us about 2 hours to figure
out they had a different room downstairs open then they usually do.  SOO
Stoked when we found it, they were playing JUNGLE MUSAK!!!  I lub jungle
music.
(Going to start a netcast of parties globally probably by spring... i'll
update that later)
About 12:30 they cut the jungle and started up with some trance, so we
decided to hit the chill room and wait for mars vs mystrE.  What needs to
be said about them?  THEY ROCKED.  Slippery floors?  SO YOU CAN
GROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE baby... I had soo much fun.

i'm glad I got to see all my old friends, and I made quite a few new ones
too!  Alas, the one lone reason I attend the parties, the people, the
smiles... and all the HAPPY KIDS!!

lUUNATiK

At 03:27 AM 1/12/98 EST, Dj Marq wrote:
>
>
>Woah...where should I start? Lets see...Skye, Lesley, Jeremy, adn me arrived
>at the maritime around 1pm or so to help set up 'n stuff. That went pretty
>smooth (kinda hectic at times). There was so much to do! We were there till
>about 6pm or so when we went out to run some erronds, get something to eat,
>and change. We got back around 8 or so and the first person i saw in line was
>haze and rudi ( that started my evening off right!) We then went inside
when i
>saw most of the people that were setting up that day (lara, tall paul,
doreen,
>marty,  and a whole buncha other peepes). I was dancing crazy through uncle
>noah's set. PHAT BREAKS!!! I thought that the whole chef outfit was hella
>tight! (uncle noah, thanks for the cracker with cheese! yummy!) After dancing
>for a while, i ran into a whole bunch of friends that i hadnt seen in a
really
>long time. Now i was really happy! I ran into mushyB (hey girl!) who had on
>the cutest pig tails I had ever seen! =)  after dancing for a while, i
started
>cruing around to see who had arrived. It was o wonderfull to see all those
>happy people! I didnt spend that much time in the downstairs room too much
>mainly because it was hotter than hell, and i'm not exactly the biggest
fan of
>jungle. 
>For some reason or anouther, I was SOOO tired by 12 or 1 that I couldnt dance
>anymore. This was eally strange considering that I always dance way too much.
>So i just spent the rest of the night wandering and chillin in the chill room
>talking to peeps and getting to know those who I didnt know already. Its so
>kewl the things you find out when you just sit down and talk to people for a
>LONG time! 
>   Thank you to all the SFR peeps who made this one special evening, and to
>everyone else who I ran into. i love you all and I hope to see all of you
>again soon(maybe sooner!)
>
>                                 Peace, Love, and Hairgrease,
>
>                                             MarQ
>
>             "The dream of my life is much better than my life itself."
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 18:05:34 1998
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>> Live 105 screwed up. Steve Masters knew the future of music and they were
>> betting on grunge instead. And just who is that wingnut that they have on
>> Saturday nights now anyway?
>
>But Steve Masters was program director. He *was* the Live 105 that screwed up.

Not true.  I met Steve Masters in 1993, and I told him that I and most of
my friends wished that Live 105 played more techno.  He told me that that's
what he would like too, but that he wasn't allowed to.  Live 105 is owned
by some company in the mid-west.  Each week the Live 105 music director
submits a playlist (a list of which songs that staion will play heavily and
which songs the station will play moderately) to the main office in the
midwest.  The main office then makes their changes to the playlist and
sends it back to Live 105, and that's what they play.  The changes that the
main office makes usually involves deleting songs that stray too far from
the mainstream and replacing them with songs from Billboard Magazine's
modern rock chart.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 18:16:12 1998
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In a message dated 1/12/98 11:10:19 AM, you wrote:

<<The No smoking thing was the only thing that I had to contend with.  Even
though I don't smoke, hangin' out in the bathroom so a couple friends
could, felt like highschool. >>
 
I am not a smoker, so I was kinda glad about the "no smoking rule" (plus I had
a little cold that nite), but to be honest, it *was* a bit of a blast from the
past to walk into a smoke-filled bathroom and see all these peeps puffin
away!! =)

luv n hugs
natasha

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Subject: Re: Name that tune
To: mikew@hyperreal.org (Mike Wertheim)
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In-Reply-To: <v03007803b0df09a47a43@[209.60.53.20]> from "Mike Wertheim" at Jan 11, 98 11:52:05 pm
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> Not true.  I met Steve Masters in 1993, and I told him that I and most of

How do I contact him now?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 18:46:24 1998
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 Ugghh - this makes me sick. More corporatization - supposedly representing
what "mainstream" america wants.  But, wait a minute, I thought Live 105 was
supposed to be "alternative".  Oh yeah, alternative IS mainstream. Ha.

GO college radio!

>
>Not true.  I met Steve Masters in 1993, and I told him that I and most of
>my friends wished that Live 105 played more techno.  He told me that that's
>what he would like too, but that he wasn't allowed to.  Live 105 is owned
>by some company in the mid-west.  Each week the Live 105 music director
>submits a playlist (a list of which songs that staion will play heavily and
>which songs the station will play moderately) to the main office in the
>midwest.  The main office then makes their changes to the playlist and
>sends it back to Live 105, and that's what they play.  The changes that the
>main office makes usually involves deleting songs that stray too far from
>the mainstream and replacing them with songs from Billboard Magazine's
>modern rock chart.
>
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 19:10:50 1998
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A web site with some philosophy about TAZ's

http://www.unicorn.com//lib/zone.html

dodger

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 19:12:45 1998
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From: Megan <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: Re: What is Right in the Scene.
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ok... i realize that this thread came and sort of phased out... BUT~

as a web/graphic designer, i feel it is my duty to check out all sites that
are listed in people's signatures...
(can you sense the sarcasm?)
nosey? 
	perhaps...
curious? 
	yes...  kind of like to get a closer look and a better understanding of
those that often post this great  list.
(and i'm lookin' for some good stuff!)

i checked out matt's site -->  <elmo@cloudfactory.org>  and came upon these
beautiful words -->

(below is the text taken from a flier that matt ran across from a couple of
years ago...  i'd love to thank this anonymous author! )

-----------------------8<----------------------------------8<---------------
-----------
READ THIS: 
Why are you at this event? The rave scene is not just about Techno or
House. This scene is not just about drugs. This scene is not just about
fashion. It is something special about Unity and Happiness. It is about
being yourself and being loved for it. It should be a harbor from our
society. But our scene right now is disintegrating!! Old school ravers,
remember when everybody hugged all the time, not just to say Hello and
Goodbye? Remember when people just said Hi for no reason except to be your
friend? Remember how good that felt? Why don't we do it anymore? Newcomers,
you are wanted and you should know that this scene is about openess. We all
share a bond-the desire to groove to a phat beat all night long-and no man
is an island. Everyone needs friends and the outside world is tough enough.
We don't need fronts and attitudes in our scene. Open your hearts and let
the positive energy flow. Look around you, pick a person, ask them their
name, and make a friend. Eliminate boundries. Open your hearts and minds.
Ravers unite and keep our scene alive!!!!!!! 
-----------------------8<----------------------------------8<---------------
-----------

now THAT is what's right in this scene!
it may be from 2 years ago... but should still ring true in ALL of our hearts!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

matt~ thank you for including that flier on your page!

megan


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 19:29:06 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: song i.d. please
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I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat. nite...Hawaii is a few
hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before I went out...need
to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone understands house
music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this song please let
me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the new one is called
"House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still slammin' around the
city?...want to hook my friends up on the east coast...thanks y'all...peace...

aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmai.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 19:31:00 1998
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Ooo..Carlos (?) played that one at Happy Kids. It was much coolness...
instructional almost, but you knew what was coming, added to the
anticipation. :)  Unfortunately, being such a raver newbie I dunno squat
about who does what with who how or why. :)

Haze

Steven_Allas wrote:
> 
> 
> I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat. nite...Hawaii is a few
> hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before I went out...need
> to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone understands house
> music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this song please let
> me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the new one is called
> "House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still slammin' around the
> city?...want to hook my friends up on the east coast...thanks y'all...peace...
> 
> aloha,
> moki4u2c@hotmai.com
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 19:32:06 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Northwest Raves" <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Cc: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Fw: [NWR] Before techno?
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:22:50 -0800
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doh! forgot the cc's =)
.
-----Original Message-----
From: .oOo.oOo.oOo. <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: matthew k hamer <sin7@juno.com>



>Sorry, didn't mean to fill up the list again =P....I just like hearing
about
>the
>people on the list...I feel that it fosters a greater sense of community
>since there are a lot of lurkers and I know there are some people
>who say "I never post because I don't have anything to say...or no one
>would care....." so I like to post topics that _everyone_ can have
something
>to share.......
>
>Anyway, I guess I should answer my own question since I never did.....
>
>The first music I was into was most likely disco (my first record I believe
>was Sesame Street Disco which I still have....i love the cookie monster
>song "me lost me cookie at the disco....(OO OO) me lost me cookie
>in the boogie music"....
>The first cassette tape I ever got was Madonna "True Blue" and after
>that was into pop/dancey stuff like Madonna, Michael Jackson, etc...
>In elementary school and middle school I was lovin' my mom's old
>records....the doors, grateful dead, led zeppelin, beatles, creedence
>clearwater revival, pink floyd to name a few.....
>later my freshman year - phish and bob marley were my cd's of choice....
>Also that year I was buying cd's from cellophane square on the Ave
>and noticed a bin they had that said "get anything from this box free
>with a $20 purchase....
> so I picked up a tape and looked for one with an interesting cover...
>ended up getting a tape by a group called "St. Vitus' Dance" which
>featured a remix of Nirvana called "Grungeraving" (hahahahahha)
>
>Is there any relation between that band and Vitus Dance? *Grin*
>Kind of seems likely.....The artwork on the tape front is also the same as
>a rave flyer for "A rave called Sharon" I saw from 1993...(which is when
>the tape came out)
>
>my sophomore year i had to quit figure skating due to knee surgery
>so i was hella depressed....everything i listened to then was dark...
>i love nine inch nails, and any kind of industrial or angry rap....
>the next year i discovered the wonderful world of raves and my musical
>choices became bouncier and more beat-y....digable planets, funk (esp
>parliament, kool & the gang, etc) and i started collecting mixtapes and
>cd's....i don't remember what my first techno cd was but i think it was an
>acid jazz compilation with funki porcini loaned to me by an ex boyfriend...
>
>I do remember my first jungle cd though...i can't remember the name
>but i do remember the bright red cover with yellow curly writing and
>the cheesy ragga samples...i didn't like the ragga but LOVED the way
>the beats sounded....I kept on going to parties expecting to hear
>jungle and never did and couldn't figure out why.....
>
>My musical tastes expanded so widely the year after that, i can't remember
>or list everything....but here are some other musical folk i love....
>
>jamiroquai, beck, sarah mclachlan, tori amos, bjork, 311, portishead,
>a tribe called quest, beastie boys (especially paul's boutique), anything
> off sugarhill records (and especially anything by grandmaster flash),
>cut chemist, kid koala, liz phair, and much more.....
>
>love+groovin
>
>kim
>.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
>the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
>(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: matthew k hamer <sin7@juno.com>
>To: nw-raves@hyperreal.org <nw-raves@hyperreal.org>
>Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 9:54 PM
>Subject: [NWR] Before techno?
>
>
>>Kim, every time you start one of these threads my mailbox gets REAL full.
>>Took me a loooong time to catch up with my email tonite, between this and
>>the whole MEAT thing!
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 20:00:25 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Mike Wertheim" <mikew@hyperreal.org>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "Terri E. Young" <tyyoung@ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Radio was:Re: Name that tune
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:51:09 -0800
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I recently read something which said that something like 12?
companies control all radio in the U.S., with 2 major ones
owning most of it. 

These folk control what the rest of us hear.

All the more reason to support pirate + independent radio!

I don't know how many people in s.f. are involved with that,but
my bookstore, Raverbooks, carries a good book on how to
start+maintain a pirate station :)

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 20:15:44 1998
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cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Name that tune
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Mike Wertheim wrote:

> 
> Not true.  I met Steve Masters in 1993, and I told him that I and most of
> my friends wished that Live 105 played more techno.  He told me that that's
> what he would like too, but that he wasn't allowed to.  Live 105 is owned
> by some company in the mid-west.  

Live 105 is owned by CBS. How's that for corporate rock?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 20:27:30 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
Message-Id: <199801122029.MAA24774@u2.netgate.net>
Subject: Happy Kids! - Review kinda.
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:29:52 -0800 (PST)
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Woo hoo!

Hi all! :)

Well, I've now been to my second rave: Happy Kids. Not like you all
couldn't tell from the people who went to Happy Kids and posted that they
met me (tee hee).  It was great meeting so many SFRavers!  I made some
neato glow in the dark and flourescent  bracelets (13 of them) and aside
from 3 I gave to non-SFRavers, I gave them all away before anyone turned
into a pumpkin (that's midnight ;) ), and still met another 4 or 5
SFRavers after that who I didn't have any left for. I was kinda bummed,
but I was also psyched that I got to meet so many!

Lessee, if I can remember who all I met/saw:

Baby Huey
Lara
Macadio
Rudi
Natasha
Mushy B
Michael
Alex
Hai
Uncle Noah

Er..um..I'm missing a couple, but I met lotsa people and it was a blast!
If I were to compare this to Beautiful People, I'd say this won hands
down.  Beautiful people had cooler decorations in my opinion, but the
vibe, the music and the people at Happy Kids were just out there, much
more my style, there weren't any sets I didn't like.  I do have to say
however, that Elte's set was just /AMAZING/ she was really getting into it
and I just loved the tracks she was spinning, just one big ol' dance floor
fulla groovin' chicks and dudes, and other things. ;)

Thanks to all of you for meeting me and hanging out and such, I had a
great time! Looking forward to seeing all of you again!

Love alla ya!
Haze

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 20:31:24 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
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Subject: Re: I am one happy kid! (fwd)
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A blast from the past and a sear to the lungs. Smoke was so thick in that
tiny little lady's room you could barely see, had a tangible quality
difference. Heh. :)
 
More from me later (I saved some other messages to reply to, and I
promise, they won't be like this one!)
 
Love and stuff,
Haze

(Hi Natasha!)

> 
> Natasha426 wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > In a message dated 1/12/98 11:10:19 AM, you wrote:
> > 
> > <<The No smoking thing was the only thing that I had to contend with.  Even
> > though I don't smoke, hangin' out in the bathroom so a couple friends
> > could, felt like highschool. >>
> >  
> > I am not a smoker, so I was kinda glad about the "no smoking rule" (plus I had
> > a little cold that nite), but to be honest, it *was* a bit of a blast from the
> > past to walk into a smoke-filled bathroom and see all these peeps puffin
> > away!! =)
> > 
> > luv n hugs
> > natasha
> > 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 20:38:18 1998
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From: "ID W" <idw@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: nomad, and the like!
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-----------------snip--------------------------------------------
>Well.. if that's true... Then based on your comments below... You are 
guilty
>of being a real big JERK!!!!
-----------------snip--------------------------------------------

If I am than so be it, you will most likely find people on the list who 
don't like me, others who think I'm a nice guy(I hope :) ), everyone is 
entitled to their opinion of me! In my 21 years on this planet I've 
learned to deal with it. 

-----------------snip--------------------------------------------
>> oh, also, nice attempt to push feel good
>> entertainment. with this incident, but here's one more knock at your
>> fucked company, 
-----------------snip--------------------------------------------
this was wrong of me I should not jave made a direct attack on your 
prod. co., that was not my origianl intention! I merely wanted to 
address the greed factor!!

-----------------snip--------------------------------------------
I happen to know that you(and coolworld for that matter) in
>> your business dealings are very difficult to deal with when it comes 
to
>> keeping to what you agree upon(times, money, conditions), due to the
>> fact that I personally know a vendor that has had to deal with you
>> people.
>
>Shit... Well bring on the details...  Lets bring it into the open.  I 
have
>nothing to hide about my business integrity.  If Your friend has a 
problem
>with working with me.. well then we can put an end to this situation
>immediately.  I certainly have never had anyone come up to me and say 
to my
>face that they don't like how i handle my business organization.  But 
since
>you brought it up, why don't you give US ALL some more details on what 
the
>problem seems to be.  It is obvious that You must be up on all the 
latest
>gossip.. so please fill US in on what you heard about how hard it is to 
deal
>with me when it comes to business arraignments.
-----------------snip--------------------------------------------
um, actually this was just a personal opinion, and I was merely saying 
that I know for a fact, and that is what my opinion is based on.once 
agian I made a mistake in directly attacking feel good ent and cool 
world, but I will complete what I have started!! The vendor was Nob hill 
pizza, the event was a cool world event, Which I am guessing your crew 
is closely(I could be wrong, plz plz plz correct me if I am wrong) 
related to and the person I spoke to said that the main person for cool 
world said that he would be the only food vendor there and of course he 
was not, in adition he supplied a  bounce, which was originally agreed 
upon for x amount, and he was promised all the power needed which wasn't 
the case, so you said you would pay him less than half of the agreed 
upon amount, which he had to chase down at the end of the night, mind 
you the half was almost half of what the original fee for the bounce 
was!! I have much respect for this person because he is running a 
business to try and support his family.

-----------------snip--------------------------------------------
>> (to whom it may concern, you know who you are)
>
>Actually... I doubt that anyone except you knows who you're referring 
to.
>The rest of us that don't live in your head have to guess what you're
>talking about.
----------------------snip n clip-----------------------------

if the shoe fits wear it!! this was aimed at people tring to make a 
quick buck from raver community, instead of tring to advance it.

-----------------snip--------------------------------------------
>> Who do you people think you are, You think that people on this list 
are
>> so blind to the BS that you post so often, well maybe some are, not 
me
>> at least, but you will get the "witch hunt" posts (some of them more
>> intelligent than others) if you present a reason, or give us reason 
to
>> believe that you are taking, rather than giving to our community, 
you're
>> going to get a grand on-line spotlight in your face, so that we may
>> question you to the fullest. Remember this is one of the risks you 
take
>> in your attempt to put on a public event.
>
>WOW...  That's a real mouthful.  This type of attitude truly chaps my 
hide.
---------------------------snip---------------------------------

why because you might be questioned??

---------------------------snip---------------------------------
>Who has the right to decide?  <give us reason to believe that you are
>taking, rather than giving to our community>  
---------------------------snip---------------------------------

the rave community, you, me, and every raver out there,but for arguments 
sake, all of those on SFraves. several people & groups of people have 
been questioned by SFraves, some have faired better than others.

---------------------------snip---------------------------------
and what about the other way
>around... Will there be some sort of props given the the people that 
give
>more than they take from this community...  or is that not even an 
aspect of
>your perspective.  
--------------------snip-----------------------------
what do you want, a cookie :^) I have several, upp no more I guess I ate 
them all, Well I do have a couple of cool CDs I picked up today, oh yea, 
I got the last three glow sticks from toys r us the other day, that's 
got to be worth something! =^P

no, but seriously, I talked to a guy named Josh who I used to work with, 
he was telling me about the parties(the early raves) he and his friends 
used to throw in their garages back in the 80s. Why were they doing 
this?? to enjoy themselves! To get away from the present day 
entertainment which they found less joy in to a more enlightening 
experience. 

I personally think that's what it's about! Enlightening others around 
you, that why I am the way I am! I feel that if I bring a smile to 
others it's a good thing, tring to do what you can to correct wrongs and 
making things good around you!

------------------------snip--------------------
And by what definitions do you plan on evaluating these
>people that you talk about?  And what about this Community you speak 
of, are
>these people immediately ostracized from your community upon the 
slightest
>possibility of wrongdoing?  If so.. then who would want to be a part of 
this
>fake community... when each of us if full of our own faults.
-------------------SNIP---------------------------------------

No, that is an extremist view on what I have said don't you think, I 
guess a better way of understanding it would be a group of friends say 
one of the friends lies and starts saying things behind others backs, 
the more it's done the less and less trust the person has from the crew, 
unless they make amends(by the way this actually did happen to my crew 
of friends and the person did a total 180 and is now very trusted by all 
of us).

in our society it is posible to be ostracized from communities w/o any 
wrong doing what so ever, that is why I like the SF area because it is 
much more accepting than many other areas I have visited.

Back to the nomad situation, people on the list requested that nomad 
make amends to the people they supposidly ripped off, maybe they have 
maybe they haven't, many people voiced their opinion about the 
situation.


----------------------------snip-----------------------------
>> Go ahead try to rape our community, enjoy the money you make, hope it
>> was worth the cost of your heart and soul.
>
>So this is your basis for your argument... MONEY.  Well maybe one day 
you
>will reach a point of personal enlightenment when you realize that 
money is
>just a tool to get a job done, and not an end product of any means.  
Since
>we live in a monetary society, and money is required to live as much as 
air
>and water.. you can more or less cross it out of your equation... 
because it
>becomes a fundamental constant.    Talking about money is a joke... 
MONEY
>makes the world go round and at the same time it is the root of all 
evil.
>Vision is a goal... Money is a tool.  The sooner you learn this, the 
happier
>your life will be.
>
-------------------------------SNIP-----------------------

no, actually GREED was the basis for my argument. I do realize that 
money is a tool that's why I have two jobs, one for learning, the other 
to pay the bills(actually there's more to it than that). I'm also a 
student, to further myself, mentaly and financialy, I could drop out 
right now and make a decient living, but I am seeking more than monetary 
gain.

=====================================SNIP--------------------
>> I will survive! Many of us
>> will, we will go on, some of us enlightened, others lost in your bull
>> shit that you try to feed that is no different that the spam from 
Cyber
>> Promotions, or the force feed media we receive from the boob tube 
each
>> day. Both good and bad karma will return to you.I can go to sleep w/o
>> that kind of guilt, can you?
>
>YOU WHO?  Im still trying to figure out who you are talking to?
-----------------------SNIP------------------------------------
once again if the shoe fits wear it! Do I have to spell out everthing?? 
If the post hit close to home..... need I say more??

-----------------SNIP---------------------------------
>> I look at raves as an escape (I'll even go so far as to say they are 
a
>> parody) from the mindless, unthinking media driven culture which 
exists
>> all around us, which I see in the TV we watch, the clubs I've been 
to,
>> and many of these massives which are going on these days.
>
>Raves aren't an escape from our chaotic culture... they are a 
reflection of
>today's culture.  If you want an escape.. go camping in the mountains, 
and
>commune with nature.  Don't go to a loud, and noisy party or club were
>people are just a sample group of today's youth, music, and dance 
culture.
>Raves and clubs are for fun, for dancing,  and making friends... but 
they
>are not and escape from today's reality... they are today's reality.
>Keep it Real.    Vlad
-----------------------------SNIP----------------------



Bull Shit! They are a (escape was the wrong word to use perhaps, but it 
is defined as flight from confinement & evasion of something 
undesirable) pathway to a peaceful and enligtened state I enjoy, This 
helped lift me out of a year and a half long depression on new years eve 
of this year(mind you I was totaly sober on new years!). 

I ask that you don't try to tell me that they aren't, like you said 
earlier you aren't in my head, so don't try to tell me what raves are or 
aren't to me! I actually do enjoy many other activities that aren't 
raves, that is only one aspect of my reality. I like certain things in 
our society, and dislike others, I am only stating that raves present a 
way for me to tone down certain aspects of todays society, which I find 
less than desirable.

Oh and my life at this point is very real!!



-idw
"If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do Humanitarians eat?"
idw@hotmail.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 21:21:27 1998
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From: "brian j tang" <fafol@royalblueny.com>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:25:21 -0500
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so here is my one chance to introduce myself.

So anyway, read the subject.  I'm from NYC.  I'll be in San Fran 
starting the 19th for 2 weeks, very possibly longer, up to six weeks.

So who do I know??  you ask.  Well DJ Marrs, the one from New Jersey 
(I understand there are multiple DJ Marrs out there), is a former 
associate of mine.  Any of you know camper??  I love camper.  If you 
don't know camper you should.  He lives out there.

How about the former member of your list, the lovely Nancy Shaw, who
now resides out in NYC now also.  I have the chance to meet her a 
couple of times.

So that's the name of people I got name-drop.

So what's my purpose in writing this??  Well the 16 hours I'll have 
to spare I'd like to do something with.  Sitting around in my hotel 
won't cut it.  I need people to do, and places to see.

So, first off, I'm not really a raver, I just play one on the 
internet.  I'm much more into clubs, staying up until 11:00 a.m. 
being debaucherous etc. etc.

I hate PLUR.  I hate little kids in big pants.  Well not hate 'em, I 
mean I know a few cool 16 year olds here and there, but when I goto 
parties/clubs, I really do prefer an older more vibe-killing crowd.  
I'm a club.kid.  Or more a club man, per se, not being the age to 
call myself a kid.  But anyway I digress.

I mean I basically don't like parties, where there are:
a)  people in a circle watching one person almost take my head off 
with a foot.
b)  Sweaty people try to hug me, exclusively because of substances 
they have ingested, and we happen to be at the same party.
c)  people trying to sell me dust.

I like parties/clubs where there are:
a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and look at each 
other.

My Least Favourite genres are jungle and breaks.  I've been exposed 
to jungle for the past two years, and I'm really really bored with 
it.  My favourite genres are Minimal Techno and Electro.  I'm also 
very into that very obnoxiously named genre called intelligent 
techno.

So maybe if somebody would have some recommendations for some places 
I might like to hit, you could post them here, or send them to me 
personally, or flame me loudly saying we don't need such a 
vibe-killing trendoid like me ruining your scene.  Any of the above 
would be helpful.

PLUR,

Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.



freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 21:28:29 1998
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The San Francisco scene is all about PLUR and a good Vibes.... what's the
point otherwise?? Why go out into the night and party if you don't want to
feel good energy???

PLUR, :)
Byroni

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, brian j tang wrote:

> 
> so here is my one chance to introduce myself.
> 
> So anyway, read the subject.  I'm from NYC.  I'll be in San Fran 
> starting the 19th for 2 weeks, very possibly longer, up to six weeks.
> 
> So who do I know??  you ask.  Well DJ Marrs, the one from New Jersey 
> (I understand there are multiple DJ Marrs out there), is a former 
> associate of mine.  Any of you know camper??  I love camper.  If you 
> don't know camper you should.  He lives out there.
> 
> How about the former member of your list, the lovely Nancy Shaw, who
> now resides out in NYC now also.  I have the chance to meet her a 
> couple of times.
> 
> So that's the name of people I got name-drop.
> 
> So what's my purpose in writing this??  Well the 16 hours I'll have 
> to spare I'd like to do something with.  Sitting around in my hotel 
> won't cut it.  I need people to do, and places to see.
> 
> So, first off, I'm not really a raver, I just play one on the 
> internet.  I'm much more into clubs, staying up until 11:00 a.m. 
> being debaucherous etc. etc.
> 
> I hate PLUR.  I hate little kids in big pants.  Well not hate 'em, I 
> mean I know a few cool 16 year olds here and there, but when I goto 
> parties/clubs, I really do prefer an older more vibe-killing crowd.  
> I'm a club.kid.  Or more a club man, per se, not being the age to 
> call myself a kid.  But anyway I digress.
> 
> I mean I basically don't like parties, where there are:
> a)  people in a circle watching one person almost take my head off 
> with a foot.
> b)  Sweaty people try to hug me, exclusively because of substances 
> they have ingested, and we happen to be at the same party.
> c)  people trying to sell me dust.
> 
> I like parties/clubs where there are:
> a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and look at each 
> other.
> 
> My Least Favourite genres are jungle and breaks.  I've been exposed 
> to jungle for the past two years, and I'm really really bored with 
> it.  My favourite genres are Minimal Techno and Electro.  I'm also 
> very into that very obnoxiously named genre called intelligent 
> techno.
> 
> So maybe if somebody would have some recommendations for some places 
> I might like to hit, you could post them here, or send them to me 
> personally, or flame me loudly saying we don't need such a 
> vibe-killing trendoid like me ruining your scene.  Any of the above 
> would be helpful.
> 
> PLUR,
> 
> Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
> 
> 
> 
> freshie
> Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
> http://silly.com/~tang
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 21:30:38 1998
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wow. could have fooled me......
     
>Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
     
     
     


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 21:44:01 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: My name is freshie
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Hey Freshie,

Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why don't
you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
great time. 8)


> I like parties/clubs where there are:
> a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
look at each 
> other.
 
> Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.

No I'm sure your not - really, you just make yourself
out to sound like a complete idiot. Did I see you on
Jerry Springer last week?

LL


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 21:57:13 1998
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brian j tang wrote:
> So anyway, read the subject.  I'm from NYC.  I'll be in San Fran
> starting the 19th for 2 weeks, very possibly longer, up to six weeks.  Well the 16 hours I'll have
> to spare I'd like to do something with.  Sitting around in my hotel
> won't cut it.  I need people to do, and places to see.


Dont miss the Mother Lode at post and larkin.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 21:58:18 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: My name is freshie
To: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>, fafol@royalblueny.com,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Hey guys..

I kind of know freshie and some of the "12b" posse
and they are pretty kewl. They are just from NYC can
you blame them?? Home of Keoki need I say more?
hehehe naw but for reals he is a nice guy don't flame
him to hard.

Hi phressssiiieeee

Macadio 




---Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Freshie,
> 
> Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why
don't
> you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
> great time. 8)
> 
> 
> > I like parties/clubs where there are:
> > a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> > b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
> look at each 
> > other.
>  
> > Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
> 
> No I'm sure your not - really, you just make yourself
> out to sound like a complete idiot. Did I see you on
> Jerry Springer last week?
> 
> LL
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:06:03 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:55:08 EST
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In a message dated 98-01-12 16:52:31 EST, lucke@rocketmail.com writes:

<< 
 Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why don't
 you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
 great time. 8)
 
 
 > I like parties/clubs where there are:
 > a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
 > b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
 look at each 
 > other.
  
 > Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL. >>


Hey!!  I have an idea!!! Let's all take him to the edge!!!  It'll be so much
fun!!!
Ms. K1dd 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:07:11 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:03:39 -0500
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
Subject: so you met my friend freshie
Cc: fafol@royalblueny.com
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hi guys, get ready for more dry new york wit...

freshie's coming to town and he's really a SWELL guy with a big heart (and
lots of candy)...

just kidding on that candy part...

he IS a lotta fun - i spend countless weekends telling freshie i should
probably go home now, it's 8am and we're still awake, or kicking him out of
MY apartment so i can lay in bed and try (usually to no avail) to go to
sleep...

at any rate, if you thought I was bad, freshie's nearly so...

and as a matter of fact, layne, we WERE the ones fighting with all the
candy ravers on Jerry Springer last week over whether jncos look stupid or
not.  After I punched Jerry Springer out, Freshie came in with the final
jab - below the belt of course, cuz that's how us evil, nasty new yorkers
do it...

nah, really...  y'all sf-ravers take stuff SO seriously sometimes!  here's
a hint:  when dealing with the nyc crew (and periodically you have to,
especially if we come out to sunny california to spread around dangerous
flu bugs, kill the vibe at your parties, spread our vain and self-absorbed
attitudes all over your scene like butter and sell bottles of ketamine for
extremely inflated prices, etc.), turn on that sarcasm sniffer...

*here's a hint* - if you're offended by now, turn your sarcasm sniffer on,
reread this entire message, and with the exception of the note on how cool
freshie is (and how we seriously inflate the price of liquid ketamine when
selling it to californians), i'm being so damn sarcastic it ain't funny...

now you guys BE NICE and San Franciscan and show freshie a good time.
Besides, i remember when I was on sfraves and I heard people making MUCH
worse idiots out of themselves than freshie...  i mean hell, remember the
girl with the crisis situation because mom couldn't understand the price of
jncos and took away her glitter?  come ON folks!

don't worry, he's every BIT as plurry as you'd like him to be.  (ha ha i
can see him cringing now but he's a big softie with a pretentious attitude
- comes from living in the east village i guess)...

>------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
>Date:          Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:41:33 -0800 (PST)
>From:          Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
>Subject:       Re: My name is freshie
>To:            fafol@royalblueny.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
>
>Hey Freshie,
>
>Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why don't
>you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
>great time. 8)
>
>
>> I like parties/clubs where there are:
>> a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
>> b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
>look at each
>> other.
>
>> Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
>
>No I'm sure your not - really, you just make yourself
>out to sound like a complete idiot. Did I see you on
>Jerry Springer last week?
>
>LL


-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."

		--from The History of Magic

do-reeeeee
http://dori.space
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres

-------------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:08:45 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: My name is freshie
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-12-98 13:41

I think Freshie is just being silly.  It's a New York sarcasm thing.  Please
give him some real advice on where to go so he can go back to NYC and tell'em
how phat the WCoast is.

Hey Freshie, I guess that approach didn't work too well huh?  Try another.  I
know you probably aren't as bad as you sound.  But in the case that nobody (and
it's a good chance) gives you any spots to hit, just go to the Hyperreal site
and check out the San Fran for weeklies, etc.

Good luck!  BTW, what clubs do you hang out at in NYC?  You're not a DannyT or
Juniorverse guy are you?  Peace.

Aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com


---- Included Message ----

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Hey Freshie,

Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why don't
you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
great time. 8)


> I like parties/clubs where there are:
> a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
look at each 
> other.
 
> Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.

No I'm sure your not - really, you just make yourself
out to sound like a complete idiot. Did I see you on
Jerry Springer last week?

LL


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:15:37 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Live 105?
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>Not that I listen to Live 105 but hell, i know a lot of people that hate
>techno and listen to live 105 and buy those albums.  I hate to say it
>but I think they are giving the mainstream what they want...I think they
>are speaking to the majority...

Exactly.  Alternative rock is mainstream for the majority, decided upon by
corporations in the midwest who do surveys (radio, telephone, MTV) to tag
what is or is not popular.  My whole point was that the word alternative has
been quite bastardized from its origins.  We should probably be calling it
popular rock or something by now.  I remember in 1983 when I first started
listening to 105 that the station actually played songs that were not
usually heard on other stations.  In 1988 I started listening to Steve
Master's show which was also quite different from the rest.  I dunno,
something weird happened in the past 10 years.  Anyone have the history of
the ownership of this station?

>
>"Cassandra Ann Thomas
>
>"I  do not say,however, that every delusion or wandering of the  mind
>should be called  madness."
>Erasmus of Rotterdam 
>
>
>> ----------
>> From: 	tyyoung@ucdavis.edu[SMTP:tyyoung@ucdavis.edu]
>> Sent: 	Monday, January 12, 1998 10:46 AM
>> To: 	Mike Wertheim; sfraves@hyperreal.org
>> Subject: 	Re: Name that tune
>> 
>>  Ugghh - this makes me sick. More corporatization - supposedly
>> representing
>> what "mainstream" america wants.  But, wait a minute, I thought Live
>> 105 was
>> supposed to be "alternative".  Oh yeah, alternative IS mainstream. Ha.
>> 
>> GO college radio!
>> 
>> >
>> >Not true.  I met Steve Masters in 1993, and I told him that I and
>> most of
>> >my friends wished that Live 105 played more techno.  He told me that
>> that's
>> >what he would like too, but that he wasn't allowed to.  Live 105 is
>> owned
>> >by some company in the mid-west.  Each week the Live 105 music
>> director
>> >submits a playlist (a list of which songs that staion will play
>> heavily and
>> >which songs the station will play moderately) to the main office in
>> the
>> >midwest.  The main office then makes their changes to the playlist
>> and
>> >sends it back to Live 105, and that's what they play.  The changes
>> that the
>> >main office makes usually involves deleting songs that stray too far
>> from
>> >the mainstream and replacing them with songs from Billboard
>> Magazine's
>> >modern rock chart.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>>  - 
>> Terri E. Young
>> Department of Entomology
>> University of California, Davis
>> Davis, CA  95616
>> 
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:15:46 1998
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From: "brian j tang" <fafol@royalblueny.com>
Organization: royalblue
To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:19:30 -0500
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Subject: Re: My name is freshie
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> In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-12-98 13:41
> 
> I think Freshie is just being silly.  It's a New York sarcasm thing.  Please
> give him some real advice on where to go so he can go back to NYC and tell'em
> how phat the WCoast is.
> 
> Hey Freshie, I guess that approach didn't work too well huh?  Try another.  I
> know you probably aren't as bad as you sound.  But in the case that nobody (and
> it's a good chance) gives you any spots to hit, just go to the Hyperreal site
> and check out the San Fran for weeklies, etc.
> 
> Good luck!  BTW, what clubs do you hang out at in NYC?  You're not a DannyT or
> Juniorverse guy are you?  Peace.

I've never made it to Juniorverse, and am not a Junior Vasquez fan at 
all, although I have been interested in checking it out, just to see 
if I could possibly make it until 2pm the following day.

I', definitely into Twilo, we they have good DJ's.  Thursday night 
Life is also a favourite of mine, although often lacking in good 
music.

I like swanky parties like Jackie 60 also.

> Aloha,
> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
> 
> 
> ---- Included Message ----
> 
> Received: 01-12-98 14:40                         Sent: 01-12-98 13:41 
> From: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol
> To: fafol@royalblueny.com sfraves@hyperreal.org 
> Subject: Re: My name is freshie
> Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apollogrp+2Eedu+40hyperreal+2Eorg+3B@apollogrp.edu
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> 
> 
> Hey Freshie,
> 
> Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why don't
> you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
> great time. 8)
> 
> 
> > I like parties/clubs where there are:
> > a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> > b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
> look at each 
> > other.
>  
> > Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
> 
> No I'm sure your not - really, you just make yourself
> out to sound like a complete idiot. Did I see you on
> Jerry Springer last week?
> 
> LL
> 
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:23:27 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: so you met my friend freshie
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Dori wrote:

> and as a matter of fact, layne, we WERE the ones
fighting with all the
> candy ravers on Jerry Springer last week over
whether jncos look stupid or
> not.  After I punched Jerry Springer out, Freshie
came in with the final
> jab - below the belt of course, cuz that's how us
evil, nasty new yorkers
> do it...


Yeahhh Baaaby I new that was you whippin' ass on Jerry
hehehe O.K. already we're a little sensitive don't
worry I pointed your boy to some good shhpots. hehe

Lates
layne


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:24:18 1998
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To: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: My name is freshie
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Excellent recommendation, fish!!   ; o

>brian j tang wrote:
>> So anyway, read the subject.  I'm from NYC.  I'll be in San Fran
>> starting the 19th for 2 weeks, very possibly longer, up to six weeks.
Well the 16 hours I'll have
>> to spare I'd like to do something with.  Sitting around in my hotel
>> won't cut it.  I need people to do, and places to see.
>
>
>Dont miss the Mother Lode at post and larkin.
>
>	><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>		foolish fish
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:35:29 1998
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From: glittergirl@value.net (glittergirl@value.net)
Subject: Lepidoptera
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So, I heard a rumor that there is a Lepidoptera party this weekend, but
can't find any more information.  Does anyone know anything?



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 22:37:27 1998
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     i heard tix are $2.....??? where can we buy them???


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Lepidoptera
Author:  Non-HP-glittergirl (glittergirl@value.net) at HP-MountainView,mimegw3
Date:    1/12/98 2:35 PM


So, I heard a rumor that there is a Lepidoptera party this weekend, but 
can't find any more information.  Does anyone know anything?
     


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 23:12:49 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: <fafol@royalblueny.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: duh! sarcasm! was:Re: My name is freshie
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*Grin* Maybe it's just me and my sense of humor, but I immediately
understood that the boy was joking.

Sometimes people take life a bit too seriously!

Then again, I have learned to be completely blunt and not sarcastic
at all on the net...sometimes things don't come across the same way
in print as they do in person and if you say something sarcastically
people will often take you literally.....

but lighten up guys, he is obviously (to me) kidding.

At least check out a person's website before deeming them lame.
That's my rule-of-the net...i love the mentos picture!

-love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 23:13:00 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:12:00 -0700
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The Year's Best Actual Headlines (yes, they are real)

1.  Include Your Children When Baking Cookies
2.  Something Went Wrong In Jet Crash, Expert Says
3.  Police Begin Campaign To Run Down Jaywalkers
4.  Safety Experts Say School Bus Passengers Should Be Belted
5.  Drunk Gets Nine Months In Violin Case
6.  Survivor Of Siamese Twins Joins Parents
7.  Iraqi Head Seeks Arms
8.  Prostitutes Appeal To Pope
9.  Panda Mating Fails; Veterinarian Takes Over
10.  British Left Waffles On Falkland Islands
11.  Lung Cancer In Women Mushrooms
12.  Eye Drops Off Shelf
13.  Teachers Strike Idle Kids
14.  Clinton Wins On Budget, But More Lies Ahead
15.  Enraged Cow Injures Farmer With Ax
16.  Plane Too Close To Ground, Crash Probe Told
17.  Miners Refuse To Work After Death
18.  Juvenile Court To Try Shooting Defendant
19.  Stolen Painting Found By Tree
20.  Two Sisters Reunited After 18 Years In Checkout Counter
21.  Killer Sentenced To Die For Second Time In 10 Years
22.  Never Withhold Herpes Infection From Loved One
23.  War Dims Hope For Peace
24.  If Strike Isn't Settled Quickly, It May Last A While
25.  Cold Wave Linked To Temperatures
26.  Deer Kill 17,000
27.  Enfields Couple Slain, Police Suspect Homicide
28.  Red Tape Holds Up New Bridge
29.  Typhoon Rips Through Cemetery; Hundreds Dead
30.  Man Struck By Lightening Faces Battery Charge
31.  New Study Of Obesity Looks For Larger Test Group
32.  Astronaut Takes Blame For Gas In Spacecraft
33.  Kids Make Nutritious Snacks
34.  Chef Throws Hes Heart In Helping Feed Needy
35.  Arson Suspect Held In Massachusetts Fire
36.  Ban On Soliciting Dead In Trotwood
37.  Local High School Dropout Cuts In Half
38.  New Vaccine May Contain Rabies
39.  Hospitals Are Sued By 7 Foot Doctors

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 23:13:29 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:10:49 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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ID W wrote:

> -----------------snip--------------------------------------------
> >> oh, also, nice attempt to push feel good
> >> entertainment. with this incident, but here's one more knock at your
> >> fucked company,
> -----------------snip--------------------------------------------
> this was wrong of me I should not jave made a direct attack on your
> prod. co., that was not my origianl intention! I merely wanted to
> address the greed factor!!

Thank you for setting this strait.  But I hardly feel that FGE is a greedy
production company.  I do not like to speak on my own behalf, but of all the
Production groups out there, I feel that our methods are the LEAST greedy.
FGE ALWAYS donates a portion of our proceeds, from every event, to a
worthwhile charity.  We Support the local underground scene by booking a
majority of local DJ's and Production.  We run a very high budget, to ensure
that all safety, security, and possible comfort is made available to the
people that support our events.   We always make available discounted
advance tickets so that people can save some cash.   FGE provides the buzz
line for free... 24-7-365, when we do not have our own parties, so people
can always know were other events are going on, and to support other
promoters.  And our events are produced to an extreme detail, with no stone
left unturned.  And by the way.. when we do make money...  It is not
spent... it goes into making the next party even better, safer, and more
FUN.   As I said.. I do not like to blow my own horn... But on behalf of all
the people that contribute to our events, I thought it was only fair to
point these thing out.   Because if we were greedy, then why would we do any
of these things?

>
>
> -----------------snip--------------------------------------------
> I happen to know that you(and coolworld for that matter) in
> >> your business dealings are very difficult to deal with when it comes
> to
> >> keeping to what you agree upon(times, money, conditions), due to the
> >> fact that I personally know a vendor that has had to deal with you
> >> people.
> >
> >Shit... Well bring on the details...  Lets bring it into the open.  I
> have
> >nothing to hide about my business integrity.  If Your friend has a
> problem
> >with working with me.. well then we can put an end to this situation
> >immediately.  I certainly have never had anyone come up to me and say
> to my
> >face that they don't like how i handle my business organization.  But
> since
> >you brought it up, why don't you give US ALL some more details on what
> the
> >problem seems to be.  It is obvious that You must be up on all the
> latest
> >gossip.. so please fill US in on what you heard about how hard it is to
> deal
> >with me when it comes to business arraignments.
> -----------------snip--------------------------------------------
> um, actually this was just a personal opinion, and I was merely saying
> that I know for a fact, and that is what my opinion is based on.once
> agian I made a mistake in directly attacking feel good ent and cool
> world, but I will complete what I have started!! The vendor was Nob hill
> pizza, the event was a cool world event, Which I am guessing your crew
> is closely(I could be wrong, plz plz plz correct me if I am wrong)
> related to and the person I spoke to said that the main person for cool
> world said that he would be the only food vendor there and of course he
> was not, in adition he supplied a  bounce, which was originally agreed
> upon for x amount, and he was promised all the power needed which wasn't
> the case, so you said you would pay him less than half of the agreed
> upon amount, which he had to chase down at the end of the night, mind
> you the half was almost half of what the original fee for the bounce
> was!! I have much respect for this person because he is running a
> business to try and support his family.

Well... This is a very complicated story, so let me first clear up some
misconceptions.  Firstly FGE and CoolWorld are 2 separate companies.  Many
years ago, we worked together, but now we produce completely different
events.  Now with this thing about Harry form Nobb Hill Pizza.  I'm More
than sure that the event your referring to was one of ours.. The First
Megga-Buzz-One on Labor Day - '96.  It was agreed upon between Him and
Myself that he would have the Exclusive to selling all food (hot dogs,
cotton candy, pizza) at the event.   The only other food that was being sold
was OtterPops at the Smart Bar.  In exchange for having the exclusive on the
food, Harry gave me a very good price for the 2 bounce houses he owns - the
panda, and the dragon... both for $1000.  His normal rate for both is
$1500.  I asked him how much power he was going to need for his cart and the
two pandas, and he told me that 60 amps on 3 cords would be enough, and that
is exactly what he was provided.  Unfortunately it was not enough power.  We
even brought out more power to him, which still was not enough.  because of
the lack in power, and because his hot dog cart required most of it, only
one Bouncy house was able to run , at 3/4 capacity over the course of the
night, and the other one never even got blown up, because he did not want to
sacrifice power to his cart, and no more power was available.  At the end of
the night, I told him that I did not feel it was fair for me to pay for the
other bounce house and I only wanted to pay him $500, in consideration of
the fact that he sold A LOT of food and made good money of the exclusive.
He did not think that was fair, and in the end, we agreed on $700, which I
paid him, even though I felt it was still to much.    Despite our
differences, I still invited Harry to come out and sell food at the next
event... A Feel Good Love A-Fair.  He did well that night, and was supposed
to pay me 20% of gross for the food exclusive at the end of the night, which
he told me was $300, And I asked him to give that to me before he left the
event, and he said he would, but before I knew it,  he packed up his truck
and bailed without paying me.  I made several attempts to contact him, and
he said " the check is in the mail", but it never came.... So i did not
invite him to the next party.   Time passes, and we start planing
Megga-Buzz-Mania, and I wanted to get some bouncy castles for the party.
So I give my old buddy Harry a call.   He is more than happy to work with me
again, and we come to an agreement on giving him another food exclusive, and
bringing out the 2 bounce houses for the party, and factoring the percentage
on the exclusive and the $300 balance into the price of the bounce houses,
he gives me a deal that we both felt comfortable about.  I go out of my way
and rent a bohemous generator, that costs me $300, in order to provide
enough juice in the yard for him and his bounce houses, setting aside and
entire area for him to set up in.  I talked to him 3 times that week, just
to make sure everything was on schedule, and that we were solid.  Everything
seemed ok, and even though he had a street fair in Burlingame to do that
afternoon, he reassured me several time that he would be at the party.   BUT
HE NEVER MADE IT!!!  And we had no bouncy houses, as i had promised on the
flyer, and the voice lines... making me look bad, and leaving many ravers
hopes shot.  Not only did i go out of my way to work with a person that had
previously burned me, and not did he cost me money on the generator, but he
cost me credibility.  And weather he has a family to support or not, I will
work with him again.  Because I have a family to support also... The Feel
Good Family, and they count on me to come through on my promises, and
obligations.  So if you do speak to your buddy Harry, thank him from me for
letting everyone down, and remind him that he still owes me that check for
$300.

> ----------------------------snip-----------------------------
> >> Go ahead try to rape our community, enjoy the money you make, hope it
> >> was worth the cost of your heart and soul.
> >
> >So this is your basis for your argument... MONEY.  Well maybe one day
> you
> >will reach a point of personal enlightenment when you realize that
> money is
> >just a tool to get a job done, and not an end product of any means.
> Since
> >we live in a monetary society, and money is required to live as much as
> air
> >and water.. you can more or less cross it out of your equation...
> because it
> >becomes a fundamental constant.    Talking about money is a joke...
> MONEY
> >makes the world go round and at the same time it is the root of all
> evil.
> >Vision is a goal... Money is a tool.  The sooner you learn this, the
> happier
> >your life will be.
> >
> -------------------------------SNIP-----------------------
>
> no, actually GREED was the basis for my argument. I do realize that
> money is a tool that's why I have two jobs, one for learning, the other
> to pay the bills(actually there's more to it than that). I'm also a
> student, to further myself, mentaly and financialy, I could drop out
> right now and make a decient living, but I am seeking more than monetary
> gain.

I'm glad that you are a student.  I to was a student for many years, and
received a BS in Industrial and Systems Engineering from SJSU.  But instead
of pursuing a career of GREED, and self indulgence working for some big
Silicon Valley company.  I chose to throw parties for a living, to make
people happy, and because I love the scene.   I do not deny that there is
Greed amongst promoters of this scene.   But Greed is a Comparative term.
Is a promoter that charges $25 for a one room party with a 6 dj lineup more
greedy than FGE that charges $25 for a 4 room party with 50 dj's????   I
doubt it.  Or how about the promoter that looses a fortune and still pays
everyone vs, the promoter that makes a bundle, but doesn't give anyone a
bonus.  Every promoter is diferent, in vison, and folowthrough.    I know
that there are many GREEDY people in this scene, and from personal
experience, of working with most of the promoters out there, I would not
classify them as greedy... but more like GIVING.

> -----------------SNIP---------------------------------
> >> I look at raves as an escape (I'll even go so far as to say they are
> a
> >> parody) from the mindless, unthinking media driven culture which
> exists
> >> all around us, which I see in the TV we watch, the clubs I've been
> to,
> >> and many of these massives which are going on these days.
> >
> >Raves aren't an escape from our chaotic culture... they are a
> reflection of
> >today's culture.  If you want an escape.. go camping in the mountains,
> and
> >commune with nature.  Don't go to a loud, and noisy party or club were
> >people are just a sample group of today's youth, music, and dance
> culture.
> >Raves and clubs are for fun, for dancing,  and making friends... but
> they
> >are not and escape from today's reality... they are today's reality.
> >Keep it Real.    Vlad
> -----------------------------SNIP----------------------
>
> Bull Shit! They are a (escape was the wrong word to use perhaps, but it
> is defined as flight from confinement & evasion of something
> undesirable) pathway to a peaceful and enligtened state I enjoy, This
> helped lift me out of a year and a half long depression on new years eve
> of this year(mind you I was totaly sober on new years!).
>
> I ask that you don't try to tell me that they aren't, like you said
> earlier you aren't in my head, so don't try to tell me what raves are or
> aren't to me! I actually do enjoy many other activities that aren't
> raves, that is only one aspect of my reality. I like certain things in
> our society, and dislike others, I am only stating that raves present a
> way for me to tone down certain aspects of todays society, which I find
> less than desirable.

I guess a rave Is something different for everyone.  Im glad that it is
something special for you.  And I'm glad that you care enough about it to
want to see things improve within our scene.  Never give up on what you
believe in.

Keep it Real... Vlad



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 23:15:46 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:15:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Kenneth Zanotto <kgzanotto@ucdavis.edu>
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hey davis peeps,
	anyone up for putting together somethin of a party this weekend?
I know i've suggested this before and i flaked, but there was a death in
my family, so i apologize, but family always takes precedence.  anyway,
there will be no more flakin on my part, so if anyone is interested, let's
set somethin up.  peace.
				ken


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 23:27:09 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:24:14 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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To: fafol@royalblueny.com
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: My name is freshie
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Welcome to San Francisco, California.

    Hope you enjoy your stay with us.  You can always check the SFRaves
Clander for info,but if you need daily updates, and you don't feel like
going online, you can call the Buzz-Line @ 415-569-3300...  Lots of info
on daily clubs and parties.   Enjoy your stay... and don't let the door
hit you in the ass on your way out of town :)

Keep it Real...  Vlad

brian j tang wrote:

> so here is my one chance to introduce myself.
>
> So anyway, read the subject.  I'm from NYC.  I'll be in San Fran
> starting the 19th for 2 weeks, very possibly longer, up to six weeks.
>
> So who do I know??  you ask.  Well DJ Marrs, the one from New Jersey
> (I understand there are multiple DJ Marrs out there), is a former
> associate of mine.  Any of you know camper??  I love camper.  If you
> don't know camper you should.  He lives out there.
>
> How about the former member of your list, the lovely Nancy Shaw, who
> now resides out in NYC now also.  I have the chance to meet her a
> couple of times.
>
> So that's the name of people I got name-drop.
>
> So what's my purpose in writing this??  Well the 16 hours I'll have
> to spare I'd like to do something with.  Sitting around in my hotel
> won't cut it.  I need people to do, and places to see.
>
> So, first off, I'm not really a raver, I just play one on the
> internet.  I'm much more into clubs, staying up until 11:00 a.m.
> being debaucherous etc. etc.
>
> I hate PLUR.  I hate little kids in big pants.  Well not hate 'em, I
> mean I know a few cool 16 year olds here and there, but when I goto
> parties/clubs, I really do prefer an older more vibe-killing crowd.
> I'm a club.kid.  Or more a club man, per se, not being the age to
> call myself a kid.  But anyway I digress.
>
> I mean I basically don't like parties, where there are:
> a)  people in a circle watching one person almost take my head off
> with a foot.
> b)  Sweaty people try to hug me, exclusively because of substances
> they have ingested, and we happen to be at the same party.
> c)  people trying to sell me dust.
>
> I like parties/clubs where there are:
> a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and look at each
> other.
>
> My Least Favourite genres are jungle and breaks.  I've been exposed
> to jungle for the past two years, and I'm really really bored with
> it.  My favourite genres are Minimal Techno and Electro.  I'm also
> very into that very obnoxiously named genre called intelligent
> techno.
>
> So maybe if somebody would have some recommendations for some places
> I might like to hit, you could post them here, or send them to me
> personally, or flame me loudly saying we don't need such a
> vibe-killing trendoid like me ruining your scene.  Any of the above
> would be helpful.
>
> PLUR,
>
> Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
>
> freshie
> Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
> http://silly.com/~tang




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 23:34:54 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Dj Marq" <DjMarq@aol.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "lUUNATiK" <luunatik@192.122.209.42>
Subject: smoking was:Re: I am one happy kid!
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:25:35 -0800
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Hmmm. I am a part-time smoker (quit, then start when things
get stressful in my life, then quit) so i have mixed feelings about
this. On the one hand, it's really frustrating + nasty if you don't
smoke to be trapped in a smoke-filled room when you're trying to 
dance.

Then again, up here in Seattle it's snowing...so I can see how going
outside when it's cold outside to have a cigarette can really suck!
(Or just going outside in general)

Do you guys have re-entry fees? We have this stupid law here
that says all parties must have them...so if you go outside you have
to pay anywhere from $1 to $5 to get back in. Therefore pretty 
much everyone smokes inside, which can make for a pretty harsh
on the lungs experience if it's a small party, especially if there
are fog machines going....

love kim

p.s. i know nothing at all about happy kids, but how could you resist
going to a party by a group called happy kids? *grin* sounds awesome!      
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: lUUNATiK <luunatik@192.122.209.42>
To: Dj Marq <DjMarq@aol.com>; sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: I am one happy kid!


>happy happy happy happy HAPPY DAMN KIDS!   MAN This party was the bomb.
>The No smoking thing was the only thing that I had to contend with.  Even
>though I don't smoke, hangin' out in the bathroom so a couple friends
>could, felt like highschool.  No offense, none at all but... Uhm... 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 12 23:58:06 1998
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From: "brian j tang" <fafol@royalblueny.com>
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Subject: RE: OT:) RE: ) (Fwd) Re: My name is freshie
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rofl.  damn sister.

> yo what do you mean by that statement "sarcasm doesn't work too well
> over the net when it's strangers"?  it doesn't take half a brain to spot
> sarcasm, and i know you left coasters atleast have a quarter brain
> leftover after shoving all that glitter into your ears.  renew my faith,
> otherwise we're gonna sic puff daddy on yo asses & blast you with our
> guns jacked with old wads of blowpop gum (YES, THEY DO FUCKING HURT WHEN
> YOU SHOOT THEM AT 58 MPH YOU DUMBASSES) and wtf is this 'OG' shit?
> aren't you people fucking RAVERS believing in the gospel of PLUR and THE
> ALMIGHTY MY PANTS AIN'T PHAT YO IF DEY AIN'T GOT 65" BOTTOMS
> TICKLEMEELMO LIKMAID STIX SUCKING LIGHTSTICKS USED AS DILDOS REBORN
> PATCHOULI WEARING HIPPIES CALLING THEMSELVES 'OGs' LIKE THEY WERE TOUGH
> N SHIT.   THERE AIN'T NO GANSTAS IN DA RAVE SCENE YO!$#!@#$  KEEP IT
> PURE!$%!#@$  KEEP IT REAL!!$$%@#$%  SHOUT IT OUT MUH FELLOW AMOEBAS.
> 
> FUCK that.  you got a bridge named golden gate.  THAT AIN'T FUCKIN
> HARDCORE.  MUH FUCKIN BROOKLYN BRIDGE COULD KICK THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR
> WIMPY GOLDEN GATE ANYDAY.  I'LL MEET YOU ON THE CORNER, YOU MONKEYSPANK.
> YOU BITCHES ARE SO SLOW, A SNAIL COULD BEAT YO ASS TO THE DAMN CORNER.
> 
> and quit sending the hardkiss brothers out here.  WE DON'T LIKE EM,
> ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S THREE OF THEM SPINNING CRAPPY LAME ASS PLUR
> SHIT.
> 
> i gotta go pee.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Nancy Shaw [SMTP:nshaw@panix.com]
> > Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 5:27 PM
> > To:	off-topic@dewline.com
> > Cc:	off-topik@dewline.com; 'sfraves@hyperreal.org'
> > Subject:	Re: OT:) RE: ) (Fwd) Re: My name is freshie
> > 
> > 
> > Yeah, your shit is just so fly here, my little ole San Francisco
> > brain's
> > just gonna burst!  Especially throwin' that attitude about how much
> > fresher you all are than anywhere else?  That's the coooolest!
> > 
> > PS  Shouts out, SFRaves!!!  i know I owe y'all a scene report from out
> > here, I've been lazy (jeez, I hope there's still some OG's on the list
> > who
> > remember me!)  SO great to run into the old school at Harmony Dec
> > 27th,
> > AWESOME party!!  And don't worry about these NY folks, people, sarcasm
> > doesn't work too well over the net when it's strangers but believe me,
> > even New Yorkers aren't this lame
> > 
> > love, Nancy
> > 
> > On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Greg Minnig wrote:
> > 
> > > that's okay, freshie, 
> > > they're a little slow out there in san francisco.
> > > in reality they're only three hours behind, 
> > > it just SEEMS like three years.
> > > 
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: 	brian j tang
> > > > Reply To: 	off-topic@dewline.com
> > > > Sent: 	Monday, January 12, 1998 9:50 PM
> > > > To: 	off-topik@dewline.com
> > > > Subject: 	OT:) (Fwd) Re: My name is freshie
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > so somebody please help me.  My current sarcasm spotter isn't 
> > > > compatible with sfraves.
> > > > 
> > > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
> > > > Date:          Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:41:33 -0800 (PST)
> > > > From:          Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
> > > > Subject:       Re: My name is freshie
> > > > To:            fafol@royalblueny.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > > > 
> > > > Hey Freshie,
> > > > 
> > > > Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why don't
> > > > you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
> > > > great time. 8)
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > I like parties/clubs where there are:
> > > > > a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> > > > > b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
> > > > look at each 
> > > > > other.
> > > >  
> > > > > Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
> > > > 
> > > > No I'm sure your not - really, you just make yourself
> > > > out to sound like a complete idiot. Did I see you on
> > > > Jerry Springer last week?
> > > > 
> > > > LL
> > > > _________________________________________________________
> > > > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > freshie
> > > > Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
> > > > http://silly.com/~tang
> > > > 
> > > 
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:00:42 1998
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Subject: Re: Country Techno
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 16:11:13 -0700
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well, i have a friend in texas that after several failures, succeeded in 
getting her parent's minds around the idea by describing raves as 
"electronic hoe-downs". she says the scene there can get a little weird, 
barn parties, cow pastures. hell, Xoranxorax in Chicago a couple years 
ago was in a deserted country western bar. i particularly remember the 
giant neon cow on the wall that someone figured out how to plug in.

seamus.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:10:30 1998
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From: "brian j tang" <fafol@royalblueny.com>
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Subject: RE: OT:) RE: ) (Fwd) Re: My name is freshie
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sorry people.  this one was my mistake with not deleteing headers.  
this is just another example of our twisted nyc sense of humour, 
from somebody who isn't me.  trust me, this is not serious at all and 
really funny.  sorry for the CC in the first place.

*puts on flame-retardant abestos suit*

> yo what do you mean by that statement "sarcasm doesn't work too well
> over the net when it's strangers"?  it doesn't take half a brain to spot
> sarcasm, and i know you left coasters atleast have a quarter brain
> leftover after shoving all that glitter into your ears.  renew my faith,
> otherwise we're gonna sic puff daddy on yo asses & blast you with our
> guns jacked with old wads of blowpop gum (YES, THEY DO FUCKING HURT WHEN
> YOU SHOOT THEM AT 58 MPH YOU DUMBASSES) and wtf is this 'OG' shit?
> aren't you people fucking RAVERS believing in the gospel of PLUR and THE
> ALMIGHTY MY PANTS AIN'T PHAT YO IF DEY AIN'T GOT 65" BOTTOMS
> TICKLEMEELMO LIKMAID STIX SUCKING LIGHTSTICKS USED AS DILDOS REBORN
> PATCHOULI WEARING HIPPIES CALLING THEMSELVES 'OGs' LIKE THEY WERE TOUGH
> N SHIT.   THERE AIN'T NO GANSTAS IN DA RAVE SCENE YO!$#!@#$  KEEP IT
> PURE!$%!#@$  KEEP IT REAL!!$$%@#$%  SHOUT IT OUT MUH FELLOW AMOEBAS.
> 
> FUCK that.  you got a bridge named golden gate.  THAT AIN'T FUCKIN
> HARDCORE.  MUH FUCKIN BROOKLYN BRIDGE COULD KICK THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR
> WIMPY GOLDEN GATE ANYDAY.  I'LL MEET YOU ON THE CORNER, YOU MONKEYSPANK.
> YOU BITCHES ARE SO SLOW, A SNAIL COULD BEAT YO ASS TO THE DAMN CORNER.
> 
> and quit sending the hardkiss brothers out here.  WE DON'T LIKE EM,
> ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S THREE OF THEM SPINNING CRAPPY LAME ASS PLUR
> SHIT.
> 
> i gotta go pee.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Nancy Shaw [SMTP:nshaw@panix.com]
> > Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 5:27 PM
> > To:	off-topic@dewline.com
> > Cc:	off-topik@dewline.com; 'sfraves@hyperreal.org'
> > Subject:	Re: OT:) RE: ) (Fwd) Re: My name is freshie
> > 
> > 
> > Yeah, your shit is just so fly here, my little ole San Francisco
> > brain's
> > just gonna burst!  Especially throwin' that attitude about how much
> > fresher you all are than anywhere else?  That's the coooolest!
> > 
> > PS  Shouts out, SFRaves!!!  i know I owe y'all a scene report from out
> > here, I've been lazy (jeez, I hope there's still some OG's on the list
> > who
> > remember me!)  SO great to run into the old school at Harmony Dec
> > 27th,
> > AWESOME party!!  And don't worry about these NY folks, people, sarcasm
> > doesn't work too well over the net when it's strangers but believe me,
> > even New Yorkers aren't this lame
> > 
> > love, Nancy
> > 
> > On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Greg Minnig wrote:
> > 
> > > that's okay, freshie, 
> > > they're a little slow out there in san francisco.
> > > in reality they're only three hours behind, 
> > > it just SEEMS like three years.
> > > 
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: 	brian j tang
> > > > Reply To: 	off-topic@dewline.com
> > > > Sent: 	Monday, January 12, 1998 9:50 PM
> > > > To: 	off-topik@dewline.com
> > > > Subject: 	OT:) (Fwd) Re: My name is freshie
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > so somebody please help me.  My current sarcasm spotter isn't 
> > > > compatible with sfraves.
> > > > 
> > > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
> > > > Date:          Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:41:33 -0800 (PST)
> > > > From:          Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
> > > > Subject:       Re: My name is freshie
> > > > To:            fafol@royalblueny.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > > > 
> > > > Hey Freshie,
> > > > 
> > > > Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why don't
> > > > you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
> > > > great time. 8)
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > I like parties/clubs where there are:
> > > > > a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> > > > > b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
> > > > look at each 
> > > > > other.
> > > >  
> > > > > Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
> > > > 
> > > > No I'm sure your not - really, you just make yourself
> > > > out to sound like a complete idiot. Did I see you on
> > > > Jerry Springer last week?
> > > > 
> > > > LL
> > > > _________________________________________________________
> > > > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > freshie
> > > > Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
> > > > http://silly.com/~tang
> > > > 
> > > 
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:13:23 1998
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>well, i have a friend in texas that after several failures, succeeded in
>getting her parent's minds around the idea by describing raves as
>"electronic hoe-downs". she says the scene there can get a little weird,
>barn parties, cow pastures. hell, Xoranxorax in Chicago a couple years
>ago was in a deserted country western bar. i particularly remember the
>giant neon cow on the wall that someone figured out how to plug in.
>
>seamus.



a couple of years back I was hanging out on the coast of Maine, and there
was a little rave
helf in this fisherman's diner down at the boat landing.  all these kids
slipping around on the greasy linoleum,    sliding past the walk-in
freezer, dancing behind the grill.  and of course, all those Lobstermen who
wake up at 5am to load up the boats were like,  "what in tarnation...?"

b))merang



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:13:27 1998
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I think it's supposed to be a private staff and friends party.

glittergirl@value.net wrote:
> 
> So, I heard a rumor that there is a Lepidoptera party this weekend, but
> can't find any more information.  Does anyone know anything?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:24:17 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
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im way down Ken....
how, when, where.. and ill be there to help in any way i can...
p.s. i dont do physical labor ;) hehehe j/k
sounds like fun....
peace
Philip
disordr

>
>hey davis peeps,
>	anyone up for putting together somethin of a party this weekend?
>I know i've suggested this before and i flaked, but there was a death 
in
>my family, so i apologize, but family always takes precedence.  anyway,
>there will be no more flakin on my part, so if anyone is interested, 
let's
>set somethin up.  peace.
>				ken
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:37:36 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:40:15 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Coming clean (was Re: nomad, and the like!)
Cc: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
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Dear Rave Friends,

        Ray Vonie/Vlad may talk in favor of business privacy, but he's
given us what appears to be a very thorough and honest account of what
happened between FGE and Nob Hill Pizza.

        Now if promoters would just respond with this kind of detail every
time an issue came up, I think we would be able to figure out pretty quick
who has integrity, and be confident in our support of them, saving the
badgering questions and withering comments for those who chose to evade or
don't bother to reply at all.

        My only request Vlad is that next time you hit the 'RETURN' key a
couple times to break up these mile-long paragraphs!  8)

Much love,
                                <<< Starchild >>>

My computer tells me Ray Vonie shared (in part):

>Well... This is a very complicated story, so let me first clear up some
>misconceptions.  Firstly FGE and CoolWorld are 2 separate companies.  Many
>years ago, we worked together, but now we produce completely different
>events.  Now with this thing about Harry form Nobb Hill Pizza.  I'm More
>than sure that the event your referring to was one of ours.. The First
>Megga-Buzz-One on Labor Day - '96.  It was agreed upon between Him and
>Myself that he would have the Exclusive to selling all food (hot dogs,
>cotton candy, pizza) at the event.   The only other food that was being sold
>was OtterPops at the Smart Bar.  In exchange for having the exclusive on the
>food, Harry gave me a very good price for the 2 bounce houses he owns - the
>panda, and the dragon... both for $1000.  His normal rate for both is
>$1500.  I asked him how much power he was going to need for his cart and the
>two pandas, and he told me that 60 amps on 3 cords would be enough, and that
>is exactly what he was provided.  Unfortunately it was not enough power.  We
>even brought out more power to him, which still was not enough.  because of
>the lack in power, and because his hot dog cart required most of it, only
>one Bouncy house was able to run , at 3/4 capacity over the course of the
>night, and the other one never even got blown up, because he did not want to
>sacrifice power to his cart, and no more power was available.  At the end of
>the night, I told him that I did not feel it was fair for me to pay for the
>other bounce house and I only wanted to pay him $500, in consideration of
>the fact that he sold A LOT of food and made good money of the exclusive.
>He did not think that was fair, and in the end, we agreed on $700, which I
>paid him, even though I felt it was still to much.    Despite our
>differences, I still invited Harry to come out and sell food at the next
>event... A Feel Good Love A-Fair.  He did well that night, and was supposed
>to pay me 20% of gross for the food exclusive at the end of the night, which
>he told me was $300, And I asked him to give that to me before he left the
>event, and he said he would, but before I knew it,  he packed up his truck
>and bailed without paying me.  I made several attempts to contact him, and
>he said " the check is in the mail", but it never came.... So i did not
>invite him to the next party.   Time passes, and we start planing
>Megga-Buzz-Mania, and I wanted to get some bouncy castles for the party.
>So I give my old buddy Harry a call.   He is more than happy to work with me
>again, and we come to an agreement on giving him another food exclusive, and
>bringing out the 2 bounce houses for the party, and factoring the percentage
>on the exclusive and the $300 balance into the price of the bounce houses,
>he gives me a deal that we both felt comfortable about.  I go out of my way
>and rent a bohemous generator, that costs me $300, in order to provide
>enough juice in the yard for him and his bounce houses, setting aside and
>entire area for him to set up in.  I talked to him 3 times that week, just
>to make sure everything was on schedule, and that we were solid.  Everything
>seemed ok, and even though he had a street fair in Burlingame to do that
>afternoon, he reassured me several time that he would be at the party.   BUT
>HE NEVER MADE IT!!!  And we had no bouncy houses, as i had promised on the
>flyer, and the voice lines... making me look bad, and leaving many ravers
>hopes shot.  Not only did i go out of my way to work with a person that had
>previously burned me, and not did he cost me money on the generator, but he
>cost me credibility.  And weather he has a family to support or not, I will
>work with him again.  Because I have a family to support also... The Feel
>Good Family, and they count on me to come through on my promises, and
>obligations.  So if you do speak to your buddy Harry, thank him from me for
>letting everyone down, and remind him that he still owes me that check for
>$300.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:37:56 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Happy Kidz = WoW!!!!!!
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:38:34 -0800
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I picked my sore butt out of bed on saturday, having gone to digital be-in
on friday, and proceeded with extreme slowness to get something done before
the sun went down. After much hassle I finally made it to Happy Kidz about
11:30- . Sorry I missed Uncle Noah's set, heard it was pretty phat though.
parking was a pain( had to park hella far away)- and I didn't reallize that
admission went up after 10pm. I was thinking great tonight's gonna suck I
just know it, everything was just going wrong( more to this story that you
don't wanna hear, trust me)
BOY WAS I WRONG!
 I got inside and the music was just bomb. I went in scoped out the place
and proceeded to the dance floor where I let myself go. I took a break and
went to the chill room where dante was giving free massages which I really
needed and really appreciated. I am still getting used to the whole
everybody is friendly thing so when people were all smilin and say hi and
talkin just cuz I was a little wierded out, in a good way. The only sfraver
I met was CheerioHN and yes I did read that post you made over the weekend I
just didn't realize that was you.
I kept dancing the whole night, usually I need caffiene which Red Bull has
lots of( I usually drink anywhere from 3 to 6 before dancing) There was so
much energy in the place that I was giddy and all I had was water.
My main reason for posting this is at about 3am I went downstairs and sat
down to catch my breath, only problem was the music and the crowd were so
alive that I couldn't sit down. I had get up and move to the beat. I think
the song was going "more Bass, more Bass, more Bass, Phat Bass" with tight
beats in between each more Bass and after Phat Bass the whole place went off
the hook. Granted I have only been apart of the scene for 6 mos. but damn I
ain't neva seen so many people on the same wave length and so excited about
music and dancing. WWWWWOOOOWWWW!!!!!!!

I REALLY GOTTA KNOW WHO WAS SPINNIN BETWEEN 3-4 DOWNSTAIRS, CUZ DAMN!

I agree the only drawback I saw was the security. I tried to leave to go
home using a side door, after I was already outside this big security guard
told me and my frienz that I had to come BACK INSIDE and leave out the main
door. I'm sorry but that don't make no sense to me. Oh well I still had a
time. I will definitely be there at the next happy kidz event.

Mook<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:44:28 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <28fad890.34bab83a@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:41:29 EST
To: luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org, fafol@royalblueny.com
Subject: Re:  so you met my friend freshie
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In a message dated 1/12/98 3:10:41 PM, you wrote:

<<nah, really...  y'all sf-ravers take stuff SO seriously sometimes!  here's
a hint:  when dealing with the nyc crew (and periodically you have to,
especially if we come out to sunny california to spread around dangerous
flu bugs, kill the vibe at your parties, spread our vain and self-absorbed
attitudes all over your scene like butter and sell bottles of ketamine for
extremely inflated prices, etc.), turn on that sarcasm sniffer...>>

HAH! I knew it@!  I can smell that East-Coast sarcasm a mile away...
I'm orig from NJ myself, and man, it's pretty refreshing to hear some 
NYC hardass wit  

I must be getting too mushy, bein out here in cali for all this time  .... LOL

natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:45:13 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Kidz = WoW!!!!!!
To: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>, Sfraves Discussion <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Between 3-4 I believe it was Mars and Mr.E  (I know
that is not how he speels his name :P)

Macadio (Mack-Audio)


---Mook <mcarey@triad.com> wrote:
>
> I picked my sore butt out of bed on saturday,
having gone to digital be-in
> on friday, and proceeded with extreme slowness to
get something done before
> the sun went down. After much hassle I finally made
it to Happy Kidz about
> 11:30- . Sorry I missed Uncle Noah's set, heard it
was pretty phat though.
> parking was a pain( had to park hella far away)-
and I didn't reallize that
> admission went up after 10pm. I was thinking great
tonight's gonna suck I
> just know it, everything was just going wrong( more
to this story that you
> don't wanna hear, trust me)
> BOY WAS I WRONG!
>  I got inside and the music was just bomb. I went
in scoped out the place
> and proceeded to the dance floor where I let myself
go. I took a break and
> went to the chill room where dante was giving free
massages which I really
> needed and really appreciated. I am still getting
used to the whole
> everybody is friendly thing so when people were all
smilin and say hi and
> talkin just cuz I was a little wierded out, in a
good way. The only sfraver
> I met was CheerioHN and yes I did read that post
you made over the weekend I
> just didn't realize that was you.
> I kept dancing the whole night, usually I need
caffiene which Red Bull has
> lots of( I usually drink anywhere from 3 to 6
before dancing) There was so
> much energy in the place that I was giddy and all I
had was water.
> My main reason for posting this is at about 3am I
went downstairs and sat
> down to catch my breath, only problem was the music
and the crowd were so
> alive that I couldn't sit down. I had get up and
move to the beat. I think
> the song was going "more Bass, more Bass, more
Bass, Phat Bass" with tight
> beats in between each more Bass and after Phat Bass
the whole place went off
> the hook. Granted I have only been apart of the
scene for 6 mos. but damn I
> ain't neva seen so many people on the same wave
length and so excited about
> music and dancing. WWWWWOOOOWWWW!!!!!!!
> 
> I REALLY GOTTA KNOW WHO WAS SPINNIN BETWEEN 3-4
DOWNSTAIRS, CUZ DAMN!
> 
> I agree the only drawback I saw was the security. I
tried to leave to go
> home using a side door, after I was already outside
this big security guard
> told me and my frienz that I had to come BACK
INSIDE and leave out the main
> door. I'm sorry but that don't make no sense to me.
Oh well I still had a
> time. I will definitely be there at the next happy
kidz event.
> 
> Mook<><
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:47:41 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7bf03c8c.34bab64f@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:33:16 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  My name is freshie
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In a message dated 1/12/98 2:22:50 PM, you wrote:

<<I hate PLUR.  I hate little kids in big pants.  Well not hate 'em, I 
mean I know a few cool 16 year olds here and there, but when I goto 
parties/clubs, I really do prefer an older more vibe-killing crowd.  
I'm a club.kid.  Or more a club man, per se, not being the age to 
call myself a kid. >>

Is this guy kidding?? I mean, this is really funny, considering that he has
posted this on a RAVES list.  OK - let's be positive:  Perhaps he is just
trying to be deliberately sarcastically funny in his own self-absorbed way?
like a joke?

Maybe I am just too darn happy but this guy's pretty hilarious

luv n hugs n Sudafeds (I'm too busy to be sick, dammit!!)
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 00:50:49 1998
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just like The Simpsons learned last night...never trust a carnie!

b))merang



>>Well... This is a very complicated story, so let me first clear up some
>>misconceptions.  Firstly FGE and CoolWorld are 2 separate companies.  Many
>>years ago, we worked together, but now we produce completely different
>>events.  Now with this thing about Harry form Nobb Hill Pizza.  I'm More
>>than sure that the event your referring to was one of ours.. The First
>>Megga-Buzz-One on Labor Day - '96.  It was agreed upon between Him and
>>Myself that he would have the Exclusive to selling all food (hot dogs,
>>cotton candy, pizza) at the event.   The only other food that was being sold
>>was OtterPops at the Smart Bar.  In exchange for having the exclusive on the
>>food, Harry gave me a very good price for the 2 bounce houses he owns - the
>>panda, and the dragon... both for $1000.  His normal rate for both is
>>$1500.  I asked him how much power he was going to need for his cart and the
>>two pandas, and he told me that 60 amps on 3 cords would be enough, and that
>>is exactly what he was provided.  Unfortunately it was not enough power.  We
>>even brought out more power to him, which still was not enough.  because of
>>the lack in power, and because his hot dog cart required most of it, only
>>one Bouncy house was able to run , at 3/4 capacity over the course of the
>>night, and the other one never even got blown up, because he did not want to
>>sacrifice power to his cart, and no more power was available.  At the end of
>>the night, I told him that I did not feel it was fair for me to pay for the
>>other bounce house and I only wanted to pay him $500, in consideration of
>>the fact that he sold A LOT of food and made good money of the exclusive.
>>He did not think that was fair, and in the end, we agreed on $700, which I
>>paid him, even though I felt it was still to much.    Despite our
>>differences, I still invited Harry to come out and sell food at the next
>>event... A Feel Good Love A-Fair.  He did well that night, and was supposed
>>to pay me 20% of gross for the food exclusive at the end of the night, which
>>he told me was $300, And I asked him to give that to me before he left the
>>event, and he said he would, but before I knew it,  he packed up his truck
>>and bailed without paying me.  I made several attempts to contact him, and
>>he said " the check is in the mail", but it never came.... So i did not
>>invite him to the next party.   Time passes, and we start planing
>>Megga-Buzz-Mania, and I wanted to get some bouncy castles for the party.
>>So I give my old buddy Harry a call.   He is more than happy to work with me
>>again, and we come to an agreement on giving him another food exclusive, and
>>bringing out the 2 bounce houses for the party, and factoring the percentage
>>on the exclusive and the $300 balance into the price of the bounce houses,
>>he gives me a deal that we both felt comfortable about.  I go out of my way
>>and rent a bohemous generator, that costs me $300, in order to provide
>>enough juice in the yard for him and his bounce houses, setting aside and
>>entire area for him to set up in.  I talked to him 3 times that week, just
>>to make sure everything was on schedule, and that we were solid.  Everything
>>seemed ok, and even though he had a street fair in Burlingame to do that
>>afternoon, he reassured me several time that he would be at the party.   BUT
>>HE NEVER MADE IT!!!  And we had no bouncy houses, as i had promised on the
>>flyer, and the voice lines... making me look bad, and leaving many ravers
>>hopes shot.  Not only did i go out of my way to work with a person that had
>>previously burned me, and not did he cost me money on the generator, but he
>>cost me credibility.  And weather he has a family to support or not, I will
>>work with him again.  Because I have a family to support also... The Feel
>>Good Family, and they count on me to come through on my promises, and
>>obligations.  So if you do speak to your buddy Harry, thank him from me for
>>letting everyone down, and remind him that he still owes me that check for
>>$300.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 01:04:34 1998
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From: "Mark Carey" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "macadio" <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Cc: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Happy Kidz = WoW!!!!!!
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:05:01 -0800
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Thanx  alot, do they have any mix tapes or CD's cuz I gotta say again WoW!

MooK<><
-----Original Message-----
From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
To: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>; Sfraves Discussion <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Happy Kidz = WoW!!!!!!


>
>
>
>Between 3-4 I believe it was Mars and Mr.E  (I know
>that is not how he speels his name :P)
>
>Macadio (Mack-Audio)
>
>
>---Mook <mcarey@triad.com> wrote:
>>
>> I picked my sore butt out of bed on saturday,
>having gone to digital be-in
>> on friday, and proceeded with extreme slowness to
>get something done before
>> the sun went down. After much hassle I finally made
>it to Happy Kidz about
>> 11:30- . Sorry I missed Uncle Noah's set, heard it
>was pretty phat though.
>> parking was a pain( had to park hella far away)-
>and I didn't reallize that
>> admission went up after 10pm. I was thinking great
>tonight's gonna suck I
>> just know it, everything was just going wrong( more
>to this story that you
>> don't wanna hear, trust me)
>> BOY WAS I WRONG!
>>  I got inside and the music was just bomb. I went
>in scoped out the place
>> and proceeded to the dance floor where I let myself
>go. I took a break and
>> went to the chill room where dante was giving free
>massages which I really
>> needed and really appreciated. I am still getting
>used to the whole
>> everybody is friendly thing so when people were all
>smilin and say hi and
>> talkin just cuz I was a little wierded out, in a
>good way. The only sfraver
>> I met was CheerioHN and yes I did read that post
>you made over the weekend I
>> just didn't realize that was you.
>> I kept dancing the whole night, usually I need
>caffiene which Red Bull has
>> lots of( I usually drink anywhere from 3 to 6
>before dancing) There was so
>> much energy in the place that I was giddy and all I
>had was water.
>> My main reason for posting this is at about 3am I
>went downstairs and sat
>> down to catch my breath, only problem was the music
>and the crowd were so
>> alive that I couldn't sit down. I had get up and
>move to the beat. I think
>> the song was going "more Bass, more Bass, more
>Bass, Phat Bass" with tight
>> beats in between each more Bass and after Phat Bass
>the whole place went off
>> the hook. Granted I have only been apart of the
>scene for 6 mos. but damn I
>> ain't neva seen so many people on the same wave
>length and so excited about
>> music and dancing. WWWWWOOOOWWWW!!!!!!!
>> 
>> I REALLY GOTTA KNOW WHO WAS SPINNIN BETWEEN 3-4
>DOWNSTAIRS, CUZ DAMN!
>> 
>> I agree the only drawback I saw was the security. I
>tried to leave to go
>> home using a side door, after I was already outside
>this big security guard
>> told me and my frienz that I had to come BACK
>INSIDE and leave out the main
>> door. I'm sorry but that don't make no sense to me.
>Oh well I still had a
>> time. I will definitely be there at the next happy
>kidz event.
>> 
>> Mook<><
>> 
>> 
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 01:17:07 1998
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To: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Subject: Re:  My name is freshie
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Yeah.... San Francisco is definately not the scene for someone that
doesn't want to be apart of something beautiful.... a good vibe. What's
the point of raving otherwise?!?!?

Byroni

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Natasha426 wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 1/12/98 2:22:50 PM, you wrote:
> 
> <<I hate PLUR.  I hate little kids in big pants.  Well not hate 'em, I 
> mean I know a few cool 16 year olds here and there, but when I goto 
> parties/clubs, I really do prefer an older more vibe-killing crowd.  
> I'm a club.kid.  Or more a club man, per se, not being the age to 
> call myself a kid. >>
> 
> Is this guy kidding?? I mean, this is really funny, considering that he has
> posted this on a RAVES list.  OK - let's be positive:  Perhaps he is just
> trying to be deliberately sarcastically funny in his own self-absorbed way?
> like a joke?
> 
> Maybe I am just too darn happy but this guy's pretty hilarious
> 
> luv n hugs n Sudafeds (I'm too busy to be sick, dammit!!)
> natasha
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 01:32:05 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: Freshie the sarcatic one
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:32:38 -0800
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I've spent a while living back east (in BOston) and had a lot of friendz
from NY. Let me tell you they were almost more sarcastic than my family,
that's say so much more than you could ever know.  Anybody posting to a
discussion group looking for info after insulting everybody in the group is
either a prick or joking. I mean who wants to have their inbox filled with
flames. Give the guy a break if turns out to be a prick at least he can't
say that he wasn't given a chance to have a good time in SF.

As the saying goes "give him just enough rope to hang himself" If he turns
out to be a cool person to chill with and you decided that you didn't want
to have anything to do with him then you'd really miss out. And if he is a
prick then you can give a really painful wedgie ;-)

MooK<><

-----Original Message-----
From: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
To: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: My name is freshie


>
>Yeah.... San Francisco is definately not the scene for someone that
>doesn't want to be apart of something beautiful.... a good vibe. What's
>the point of raving otherwise?!?!?
>
>Byroni
>
>On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Natasha426 wrote:
>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/12/98 2:22:50 PM, you wrote:
>>
>> <<I hate PLUR.  I hate little kids in big pants.  Well not hate 'em, I
>> mean I know a few cool 16 year olds here and there, but when I goto
>> parties/clubs, I really do prefer an older more vibe-killing crowd.
>> I'm a club.kid.  Or more a club man, per se, not being the age to
>> call myself a kid. >>
>>
>> Is this guy kidding?? I mean, this is really funny, considering that he
has
>> posted this on a RAVES list.  OK - let's be positive:  Perhaps he is just
>> trying to be deliberately sarcastically funny in his own self-absorbed
way?
>> like a joke?
>>
>> Maybe I am just too darn happy but this guy's pretty hilarious
>>
>> luv n hugs n Sudafeds (I'm too busy to be sick, dammit!!)
>> natasha
>>
>
>
>another deep space transmission from... ..  .
>or...
>another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
>
>
>(byroni)
>TheSPACEcowboy
>
>"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
> -me
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 01:56:36 1998
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they own F-8 in SF. go there any buy all their stuff.... =) their tapes
are really good.

Mark Carey wrote:
> 
> Thanx  alot, do they have any mix tapes or CD's cuz I gotta say again WoW!
> 
> MooK<><

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 02:04:44 1998
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Mook wrote:
 
> I agree the only drawback I saw was the security. I tried to leave to go
> home using a side door, after I was already outside this big security guard
> told me and my frienz that I had to come BACK INSIDE and leave out the main
> door. I'm sorry but that don't make no sense to me. 

The reason for that is the managmnet at the maritime hall 
keep track of every single person who comes in and leaves.
They generally get a percentage of the ticket sales and
they are anal about their pennys and nickels among other things.

It should not reflect badly on happy kids other than the fact that
they chose to use a space that is known for having major
problems. The managemnet in that building are some pretty nasty people
and if you go to partys there you just have to accept that.
Nothing the promoters can do except use another space.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 02:04:49 1998
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of course this he was just playing and so were the
people that decided to have some fun with him.


Saint Peter was manning the Pearly Gates when a rowdy crowd from New York
City showed up.  Being somewhat skeptical, Saint Peter said he would have
to check with God.  After hearing the news, God instructed him to admit
them, as they were for better or worse, still all his children.  A few
minutes later, Saint Peter returned to God breathless and said, "They're
gone!" "What? All of the New Yorkers are gone?" asked God.  "No!" replied
Saint Peter.  "The Pearly Gates!"

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 02:23:37 1998
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Subject: yo freshie
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>Hey guys..
>
>I kind of know freshie and some of the "12b" posse
>and they are pretty kewl. They are just from NYC can
>you blame them?? Home of Keoki need I say more?
>hehehe naw but for reals he is a nice guy don't flame
>him to hard.
>
>Hi phressssiiieeee

  Hiya Freshie. I'm from Chicago, and I can identify with a shit-talking
city boy. Just so you know: SF is kind of a weird place. It's very hip but
at the same time it's kind of provincial. People don't always seem to
understand sarcasm or attitude here.
  (PS - you probably don't really want to check out the Mother Lode. It's
for folks with extremely specific tastes.)




                                                             w
                                                             w
                                                             w
  / // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //    b         \\ \
   // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //     o          \\
  // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //      w           \\
  / // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //       k            \
  \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\       e            /
  \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\      t           //
   \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\     t          //
  \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\    c         // /
                                                             o
                                                             m



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 02:35:53 1998
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Subject: Re: Promoter Bashing/not
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:35:00 -0800
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> design and market your own  water bottle & sell on a regular basis -
> form a non-profit or not-for-profit if you have to
>
> sell it for a $1 for small and maybe $2 for large
>
<sniper>
 If that means not paying through the nose for larger than
> life spaces or dj's or sound systems or whatever than do so - maybe
> feature "up-&-coming talent space" there are so many talented folks
that
> would love the chance to play for a grateful crowd.
>

Stacey @ Nomad
then did reply to crash worship events...

I still think you should look into selling your own bottled water &
maybe the non or not for profit.

I also think an up & coming area or something

I'm sure on some level it's worth paying a solidly silly ammount for big
names and sound systems the size of a large truck but I've witnessed
much smaller well-managed systems do just as well

these are my sincere suggestions & I hope someone uses them - y'all have
a decent space and you could do a lot of cool stuff with it - I wish you
well

sister kitty


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 02:55:10 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, tyyoung@ucdavis.edu
Subject: RE: Live 105?
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:56:00 -0800
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KALX (Cal's station @ 90.7) has continual bit about how they REALLY
played song/group X first and not Live 105 like they claim.... Between
KALX, KZSU (Stanford, 90.1) and KFJC (DeAnza Foothills CC, 89.7)
stations there is continually some great stuff on.

dodger

> ----------
> From: 	tyyoung@ucdavis.edu[SMTP:tyyoung@ucdavis.edu]
> Sent: 	Monday, January 12, 1998 2:15 PM
> To: 	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: 	Live 105?
> 
> >Not that I listen to Live 105 but hell, i know a lot of people that
> hate
> >techno and listen to live 105 and buy those albums.  I hate to say it
> >but I think they are giving the mainstream what they want...I think
> they
> >are speaking to the majority...
> 
> Exactly.  Alternative rock is mainstream for the majority, decided
> upon by
> corporations in the midwest who do surveys (radio, telephone, MTV) to
> tag
> what is or is not popular.  My whole point was that the word
> alternative has
> been quite bastardized from its origins.  We should probably be
> calling it
> popular rock or something by now.  I remember in 1983 when I first
> started
> listening to 105 that the station actually played songs that were not
> usually heard on other stations.  In 1988 I started listening to Steve
> Master's show which was also quite different from the rest.  I dunno,
> something weird happened in the past 10 years.  Anyone have the
> history of
> the ownership of this station?
> 
> >
> >"Cassandra Ann Thomas
> >
> >"I  do not say,however, that every delusion or wandering of the  mind
> >should be called  madness."
> >Erasmus of Rotterdam 
> >
> >
> >> ----------
> >> From: 	tyyoung@ucdavis.edu[SMTP:tyyoung@ucdavis.edu]
> >> Sent: 	Monday, January 12, 1998 10:46 AM
> >> To: 	Mike Wertheim; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> >> Subject: 	Re: Name that tune
> >> 
> >>  Ugghh - this makes me sick. More corporatization - supposedly
> >> representing
> >> what "mainstream" america wants.  But, wait a minute, I thought
> Live
> >> 105 was
> >> supposed to be "alternative".  Oh yeah, alternative IS mainstream.
> Ha.
> >> 
> >> GO college radio!
> >> 
> >> >
> >> >Not true.  I met Steve Masters in 1993, and I told him that I and
> >> most of
> >> >my friends wished that Live 105 played more techno.  He told me
> that
> >> that's
> >> >what he would like too, but that he wasn't allowed to.  Live 105
> is
> >> owned
> >> >by some company in the mid-west.  Each week the Live 105 music
> >> director
> >> >submits a playlist (a list of which songs that staion will play
> >> heavily and
> >> >which songs the station will play moderately) to the main office
> in
> >> the
> >> >midwest.  The main office then makes their changes to the playlist
> >> and
> >> >sends it back to Live 105, and that's what they play.  The changes
> >> that the
> >> >main office makes usually involves deleting songs that stray too
> far
> >> from
> >> >the mainstream and replacing them with songs from Billboard
> >> Magazine's
> >> >modern rock chart.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> 
> >> 
> >>  - 
> >> Terri E. Young
> >> Department of Entomology
> >> University of California, Davis
> >> Davis, CA  95616
> >> 
> >
> >
> 
> 
>  - 
> Terri E. Young
> Department of Entomology
> University of California, Davis
> Davis, CA  95616
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 03:02:55 1998
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From: b e n c h u n <benchun@MIT.EDU>
Subject: college radio
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Terri E. Young wrote:
>GO college radio!

seriously! the left of the dial is the only place on the FM airwaves you're
going to find that wacky, wierd, out of the ordinary stuff that makes me
happy that college radio exists. it is a true alternative media outlet, in
the way cable access is for television... only it's usually a bit more
professional! coupled with realaudio or some other kind of live-to-the-net
streaming format, this has some real POWER. i love being able to sit around
in boston listening to KDVS (if whatever is on WMBR isn't doing it for me!)
people can say what they will about the ivory tower, but it sure does
support stuff that wouldn't be able to survive in a purely commercial
market... and that's a GOOD thing in this case!


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 03:03:02 1998
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in the ongoing saga of my hyperreal.org email troubles... sorry if you end
up seeing this twice:

ok, so i was a little sketched out when i found out that this was going to
be at maritime hall. not that i had ever been there myself... now that i
have, let me say: this is not a BAD place to have a party. it is not a
GREAT place either. the security people are not very nice. the space itself
almost overwhelmed the decorations with its sheer size and feel. but the
party itself went off, so let's focus on that!

in the main room it was cool to be able to look past the DJ, out that
window, at downtown... before it got fogged up from everone dancing so
much! i heard uncle noah and elte spin upstairs, then checked out greg
sandler downstairs, back up for carlos... he gets the BOMB DJ OF THE NIGHT
award in my book, mad skills scratching as well as great selection... sifu
vs. honeybee went off (and big props to their MC, she was great) and of
course mars vs. mystre was the energy high point of the night... anyone
know why they were downstairs in that little room?

didn't meet very many new people for some reason... a nice guy named levi
who lives in napa and came down by himself! as well as jill (cheerio) who
matt introduced me to! i shared my new toys with them... wish i would have
connected with more of you, sounds like there was a big sfr crew there...
i'd love to see someone carry out leslie's idea of a photo booth or
something similar where we could check in and find each other... i realized
there's a lot of you who have come on the list in the past year or two that
i don't know at all!

looking out on a big room (or a small sweaty room!) full of HAPPY KIDS,
everyone getting down to the same sounds, everyone excited about the music,
that's what it's really all about... all in all, respect to happy kids for
all the work i know it must have taken to do a party at maritime hall, i'm
glad i experienced your version of it... and maybe i'll see some of you at
something a little more "rebellious" next weekend!  ;)


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 03:06:17 1998
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From: Nancy Shaw <nshaw@panix.com>
To: off-topic@dewline.com
cc: off-topik@dewline.com, "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: OT:) RE: ) (Fwd) Re: My name is freshie
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Yeah, your shit is just so fly here, my little ole San Francisco brain's
just gonna burst!  Especially throwin' that attitude about how much
fresher you all are than anywhere else?  That's the coooolest!

PS  Shouts out, SFRaves!!!  i know I owe y'all a scene report from out
here, I've been lazy (jeez, I hope there's still some OG's on the list who
remember me!)  SO great to run into the old school at Harmony Dec 27th,
AWESOME party!!  And don't worry about these NY folks, people, sarcasm
doesn't work too well over the net when it's strangers but believe me,
even New Yorkers aren't this lame

love, Nancy

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Greg Minnig wrote:

> that's okay, freshie, 
> they're a little slow out there in san francisco.
> in reality they're only three hours behind, 
> it just SEEMS like three years.
> 
> > ----------
> > From: 	brian j tang
> > Reply To: 	off-topic@dewline.com
> > Sent: 	Monday, January 12, 1998 9:50 PM
> > To: 	off-topik@dewline.com
> > Subject: 	OT:) (Fwd) Re: My name is freshie
> > 
> > 
> > so somebody please help me.  My current sarcasm spotter isn't 
> > compatible with sfraves.
> > 
> > ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
> > Date:          Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:41:33 -0800 (PST)
> > From:          Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
> > Subject:       Re: My name is freshie
> > To:            fafol@royalblueny.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > 
> > Hey Freshie,
> > 
> > Wow you sound like one fun guy! Lets see here why don't
> > you head down to Johnny P's I'm sure you'll have a
> > great time. 8)
> > 
> > 
> > > I like parties/clubs where there are:
> > > a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> > > b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and
> > look at each 
> > > other.
> >  
> > > Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
> > 
> > No I'm sure your not - really, you just make yourself
> > out to sound like a complete idiot. Did I see you on
> > Jerry Springer last week?
> > 
> > LL
> > _________________________________________________________
> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> > freshie
> > Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
> > http://silly.com/~tang
> > 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 03:15:46 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:06:53 EST
To: macadio6@rocketmail.com, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org,
  lucke@rocketmail.com, fafol@royalblueny.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: 12b --> was re:My Name Is freshie
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as i have recently moved frm NY myself...and too see such a familiar on
here...
hark is dat 12b i see? oooh man oh man.....heheh i dont even know if i should 
further comment on that one...may break out in giggles....
 
*remembering nights on the fire escape*
~p

>
>Hey guys..
>
>I kind of know freshie and some of the "12b" posse
>and they are pretty kewl. They are just from NYC can
>you blame them?? Home of Keoki need I say more?
>hehehe naw but for reals he is a nice guy don't flame
>him to hard.
>
>Hi phressssiiieeee
>
>Macadio 
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 03:31:00 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, moshe1@jps.net
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Seth said:
>>
>>I second this motion.  Also, a clear idea of how many tickets were 
counted
>>versus people unpaid would be very helpful.  Most of the "facts" given 
in
>>your post are extremely vague.


Moshe said;



>
>what in gods name makes yall think you are entitled to this 
information?

 Well, after Dumb and Spacey (who incidently had two people DIE at a 
party of theirs not too long ago) fuck over people in the scene they 
seem to be confused as why the folks in this here scene are pissed and 
have no respect for them. We are not entitled to this info, but if the 
dynamic dummies want respect, from us, they will comply.


>it may be your scene but it wasnt your party. 


 Gee. Tell that to Vlad (ravers are more important than promoters or 
artists).


>I think this thread is
>getting ridicoulous, childish(case in point: rann d dreams post),and 
just
>plain mean. 

 Of course you are going to say that. You have a bias. And pointing 
fingers is also childish. I think mean is more along the lines of not 
paying people rather than calling some assholes out to deal with thier 
responsibilities.



>It makes me sick and makes me not want to get this list for a
>while.


 Poor baby.


>your freind,moshe

 Your not our friend Moshe. Most of us don't even know you (or care to).





Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 03:34:18 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:31:07 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
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There is a beutifull full moon in the sky :)   But its is colder then a
'wiches tit in a metal bra' outside, so I doubt that there will be a
party tonight, but if anybody hears something... please post it...

Keep it Real... Vlad (aka Ray Vonie)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 04:02:43 1998
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To: "You're Busted!" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
Subject: How the name Deepfog came into being?
Cc: hak1@earthlink.net, fubari@valueserve.com,
  Boomerang Fidget <peter@niles.com>, Kevin Slack <kslack@istar.ca>,
  christopher hymas <christopher.hymas-next@attws.com>,
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You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on me?  I
thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.  Better
read this one.

>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:39:36 -0500
>From: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
>Reply-To: hen@interlog.com
>Organization: Gang of Virtue Webmedia ... http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: deepfog@hooked.net
>Subject: How the name Deepfog came into being?
>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>Status: RO
>X-Status:
>X-Keywords:
>X-UID: 17
>
>Hey there Deepfog.
>
>Listen, I'm curious as to how you came up with the handle "Deepfog". The
>reason I'm asking is because I'm co-writing a short film script about
>the rave scene and I have been using the handle Deepfog for the one
>character, who is a DJ.
>
>That doesn't mean it's going to continue that way as we are only
>beginning writing but I wanted to find out from you how you came up with
>the name because we are doing character bios and this may help.
>
>DJ Deepfog, at this point, is going to be the creator of a new sound
>called Deepfog Acid, which is like hard acid with some Jungly
>drum'n'bass.
>
>Thanks a lot.
>
>da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
>humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
>night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 04:16:43 1998
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Message-ID: <c860aeec.34bae69e@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:59:25 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR: Titanic... any coincidence?? I think not....
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 Hey people, what's up?? Doing well, i hope?  Ok, sNIKers and I just sat
through 2 hours and 74 minutes (WAIT! 3 hours and 14 minutes) of Titanic and
hm... there are some amazing things about their little boat party.  

1st:  When they're not in first class, they spend all their time on the E deck

2nd:  The E deck sign comes up at least 20 times in the movie

3rd:  They have more fun partying on the E deck, where everyone is wasted

Coincidence?? NAh.. these kids knew how to party>  Heck.. they didn't shut off
the music till the boat went all the way under water.  Yep =)~*
But I'm never going on a boat again.

       hugs n'stuff,
         'trice the tekno diva


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 04:17:29 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: song i.d. please
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=groovinkim+40connectexpress+2Ecom+3B@apollo's message of 01-12-98 15:22

so far no reply on my query...so I wanted to send again to keep it
fresh...that's how desperate I am dammit...I need to hear this song at my
leisure so please help if you can...thanks...read the message below...


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 04:17:29 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: song i.d. please
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=groovinkim+40connectexpress+2Ecom+3B@apollo's message of 01-12-98 15:22

forgot to attach this, sorry...


>
>I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat. nite...Hawaii is a
few
>hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before I went
out...need
>to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone understands
house
>music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this song please
let
>me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the new one is
called
>"House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still slammin' around
the
>city?...want to hook my friends up on the east coast...thanks
y'all...peace...
>
>aloha,
>moki4u2c@hotmai.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 04:22:00 1998
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From: absynthe@sirius.com
Subject: Why Rave
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I'm new to the list, and this is my first post.  The threads about Nomad
and vibe have been churning around in my head, making me think about why I
rave. Then I went to a very funny party over the weekend.  For the last
year or so I've mostly gone to raves when I go out, but last Friday one of
the guys at my work  dragged me along to this party.  I had a great time,
but it did nothing but reaffirm me in my parting choices:  It was Yuppies
wall to wall!!  Now I'm not down on yuppies, I've known and loved some.  I
even imagine that I could be suspected of being one.  But I had forgotten
what that world is like!

The first thing I noticed was the colors.  Far too many neatly pressed
plaid shirts, granted, but most remarkable was that nearly all of the women
were wearing black (in all honesty, me too).  They looked good, for the
most part, but so somber.  Ravers just look so much more cheerful!  Maybe
it is that ravers want to be kids forever, and yuppies just want to grow up.

What also struck me was the drinking.  I'm pretty sure now that alcohol is
my *last* party drug of choice.

As I stood at the keg-something I haven't done in more than a few years-
the guy standing next to me looked down at his red plastic cup and said
"I've gotta pound three or four of these so I can get shitty."  He was
already swaying on his feet.

As I listened to the DJ trainwreck her way through the night and just tried
to dance, I got stepped on, spilled on, elbowed, leered at and felt up.

In the worst move of the night I saw some guy actually pick the needle up
off of the record the DJ was spinning.  The DJ's skill aside, I can't even
put into words how rude that was.  I'm not sure that more than a few of the
people there noticed, however.

Etc. etc. etc.

I had a lot of fun, however.  I met really nice, interesting people: An
architect, a graphics designer, someone in Human Resources.  I had several
fabulous talks on why to love this city.  I met someone who might actually
be a friend, and others who it would be nice to run into.  By the same
token, many or all  of the things I have mentioned, both positive and
negative, could easily happen at a rave.

But it wasn't the same.

I'm not going to describe raving--even from only being on this list since
X-mas (props to Santa for my new modem) I see that *everyone* has their own
way to feel  a rave.  We all know, deep down somewhere what it is we want
from a rave, what our "vibe" is, or we wouldn't  keep going and looking for
it.  When we find it though, it is sheer joy and glory.  That yuppie party,
that glimpse into a different lifestyle allowed me to see again (or perhaps
simply more clearly) what it is I can only find at a rave.  To me it is
nameless, or just too large for mere words, but I know it when I feel it.

That said, why do *you* rave?

absynthe@sirius.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 04:32:55 1998
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Beautiful post, and well worth a try!! Also try this with Northern Exposure
vol. 2, Sasha's disk. I got it on Friday, and haven't taken it out of my cd
player since! It's the only thing that's kept me sane through this weekend! I
was dancing in the rain, by myself, at a friends house as we listened to it.

A must for anyone who loves Robert Miles, BT or the Renaissance set series...
guarantied byroni!

bunny


*byroni* wrote:

> Hello everyone. Sorry to *SPAM* the list... but I have to. Because I want
> you guys to do something for me.
>
> Go out into the rain with an umbrella, a warm jacket and a walkman... and
> listen to Robert Miles' "Dreamland". Especially songs #3... "Fantasya"...
> you'll pick up so much good energy and give off so much good energy...
> LIFE was made for this song.... and this song was made for life.. "Thank
> you Robert Miles"... sigh... I picture myself flying free high above
> deep  green, lush, rolling hills...
> with distant clouds and a deep blue sky above and below me... listening to
> this makes me feel soo good... the woman's voice is that of an angel
> telling me that everything is as it was meant to be in my life... and that
> my dreams are *real* as I want them to be and that love is all that
> trully matters.... and that
> loving yourself is #1... and with this song you will see the beauty in
> yourself... (not that you haven't seen it before... but sometimes we
> forget or take ourselves for granted...) ...don't think too deeply just
> *feel*... and you'll see that
> your spirit is the superior power to this flesh... once your realize this
> everything will begin to make sense...
>
> (nice for someone who hasn't posted much lately... well this is why, I've
> been thinking and feeling internally a lot more... and this is good once
> in a while...)
>
> The sky is deep... the air is fresh and cool... the night is young... we
> are eternal.
>
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
>
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
>
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                         -me




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 04:37:16 1998
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From: luunatik <luunatik@deepthought.armory.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Kidz = WoW!!!!!!
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At 04:48 PM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>
>Between 3-4 I believe it was Mars and Mr.E  (I know
>that is not how he speels his name :P)

MystrE I believe? :)

>
>Macadio (Mack-Audio)
>
>
>---Mook <mcarey@triad.com> wrote:
>>
>> I picked my sore butt out of bed on saturday,
>having gone to digital be-in
>> on friday, and proceeded with extreme slowness to
>get something done before
>> the sun went down. After much hassle I finally made
>it to Happy Kidz about
>> 11:30- . Sorry I missed Uncle Noah's set, heard it
>was pretty phat though.
>> parking was a pain( had to park hella far away)-
>and I didn't reallize that
>> admission went up after 10pm. I was thinking great
>tonight's gonna suck I
>> just know it, everything was just going wrong( more
>to this story that you
>> don't wanna hear, trust me)
>> BOY WAS I WRONG!
>>  I got inside and the music was just bomb. I went
>in scoped out the place
>> and proceeded to the dance floor where I let myself
>go. I took a break and
>> went to the chill room where dante was giving free
>massages which I really
>> needed and really appreciated. I am still getting
>used to the whole
>> everybody is friendly thing so when people were all
>smilin and say hi and
>> talkin just cuz I was a little wierded out, in a
>good way. The only sfraver
>> I met was CheerioHN and yes I did read that post
>you made over the weekend I
>> just didn't realize that was you.
>> I kept dancing the whole night, usually I need
>caffiene which Red Bull has
>> lots of( I usually drink anywhere from 3 to 6
>before dancing) There was so
>> much energy in the place that I was giddy and all I
>had was water.
>> My main reason for posting this is at about 3am I
>went downstairs and sat
>> down to catch my breath, only problem was the music
>and the crowd were so
>> alive that I couldn't sit down. I had get up and
>move to the beat. I think
>> the song was going "more Bass, more Bass, more
>Bass, Phat Bass" with tight
>> beats in between each more Bass and after Phat Bass
>the whole place went off
>> the hook. Granted I have only been apart of the
>scene for 6 mos. but damn I
>> ain't neva seen so many people on the same wave
>length and so excited about
>> music and dancing. WWWWWOOOOWWWW!!!!!!!
>> 
>> I REALLY GOTTA KNOW WHO WAS SPINNIN BETWEEN 3-4
>DOWNSTAIRS, CUZ DAMN!
>> 
>> I agree the only drawback I saw was the security. I
>tried to leave to go
>> home using a side door, after I was already outside
>this big security guard
>> told me and my frienz that I had to come BACK
>INSIDE and leave out the main
>> door. I'm sorry but that don't make no sense to me.
>Oh well I still had a
>> time. I will definitely be there at the next happy
>kidz event.
>> 
>> Mook<><
>> 
>> 
>
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 04:40:50 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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>
>The reason I am posting this letter is to ask all of you to please take
>this issue to a private forum. If you have a question, complaint, or 
even a
>supportive comment for the Nomads, send it to them privately. What good
>does it do to post this kinda stuff publicly for over 10 days in a row? 


 Yes! God knows we shouldn't be discussing our scene *here*! (shudder) 
Especially let us not be discussing the practices (good or bad) of those 
that take money from us! And gosh, I'm sure the promoters don't give a 
shit what we have to say anyways.

 I feel
>it is ok to bring something up once, maybe even twice, but after ten 
days
>of bitching about a NYE party... it gets old.


 Some things (and issues) are worth discussing. If it's old for you, I'm 
sure you know how to use a delete key.



>Peace and love,

 No thanks. Especially if it translates to "shut up and take it".

Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 05:02:32 1998
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Yea, Live 105... the top 40 of alternative music... oxymoron? You deside...

CBS purchased Live 105 about 6 months ago, canned the morning personality four
months later, and promptly started playing the same stuff over and over and over
again. Turn it on any time during the day, and you're bound to hear 311,
Sublime, Mighty Mighty Bosstones, or Beck within the first five minutes. It's
bullshit...

bunny

Terri E. Young wrote:

>  Ugghh - this makes me sick. More corporatization - supposedly representing
> what "mainstream" america wants.  But, wait a minute, I thought Live 105 was
> supposed to be "alternative".  Oh yeah, alternative IS mainstream. Ha.
>
> GO college radio!
>
> >
> >Not true.  I met Steve Masters in 1993, and I told him that I and most of
> >my friends wished that Live 105 played more techno.  He told me that that's
> >what he would like too, but that he wasn't allowed to.  Live 105 is owned
> >by some company in the mid-west.  Each week the Live 105 music director
> >submits a playlist (a list of which songs that staion will play heavily and
> >which songs the station will play moderately) to the main office in the
> >midwest.  The main office then makes their changes to the playlist and
> >sends it back to Live 105, and that's what they play.  The changes that the
> >main office makes usually involves deleting songs that stray too far from
> >the mainstream and replacing them with songs from Billboard Magazine's
> >modern rock chart.
> >
> >
> >
>
>  -
> Terri E. Young
> Department of Entomology
> University of California, Davis
> Davis, CA  95616




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 06:34:46 1998
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Would the P.S. message make Giles "provincial" or Freshie "Provincial".
Or is it that we are so "Provincial", that when we are sarcastic, we are 
a bit "quaint".  You didnt hurt my feelings but maybe you hurt 
Sister Kitty's feelings. ;-)

Giles Bowkett wrote:
> It's very hip but
> at the same time it's kind of provincial. People don't always seem to
> understand sarcasm or attitude here.
>   (PS - you probably don't really want to check out the Mother Lode. It's
> for folks with extremely specific tastes.)
> 
>                                                              w
>                                                              w
>                                                              w
>   / // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //    b         \\ \
>    // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //     o          \\
>   // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //      w           \\
>   / // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //       k            \
>   \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\       e            /
>   \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\      t           //
>    \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\     t          //
>   \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\    c         // /
>                                                              o
>                                                              m

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 06:39:59 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:42:46 -0800
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From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: My name is freshie
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At 4:25 PM -0500 1/12/98, brian j tang wrote:
>so here is my one chance to introduce myself.
>
>So anyway, read the subject.  I'm from NYC.  I'll be in San Fran
>starting the 19th for 2 weeks, very possibly longer, up to six weeks.
>
>So who do I know??  you ask.  Well DJ Marrs, the one from New Jersey
>(I understand there are multiple DJ Marrs out there), is a former
>associate of mine.  Any of you know camper??  I love camper.  If you
>don't know camper you should.  He lives out there.
>
>How about the former member of your list, the lovely Nancy Shaw, who
>now resides out in NYC now also.  I have the chance to meet her a
>couple of times.
>
>So that's the name of people I got name-drop.
>
>So what's my purpose in writing this??  Well the 16 hours I'll have
>to spare I'd like to do something with.  Sitting around in my hotel
>won't cut it.  I need people to do, and places to see.
>
>So, first off, I'm not really a raver, I just play one on the
>internet.  I'm much more into clubs, staying up until 11:00 a.m.
>being debaucherous etc. etc.
>
>I hate PLUR.  I hate little kids in big pants.  Well not hate 'em, I
>mean I know a few cool 16 year olds here and there, but when I goto
>parties/clubs, I really do prefer an older more vibe-killing crowd.
>I'm a club.kid.  Or more a club man, per se, not being the age to
>call myself a kid.  But anyway I digress.
>
>I mean I basically don't like parties, where there are:
>a)  people in a circle watching one person almost take my head off
>with a foot.
>b)  Sweaty people try to hug me, exclusively because of substances
>they have ingested, and we happen to be at the same party.
>c)  people trying to sell me dust.
>
>I like parties/clubs where there are:
>a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
>b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and look at each
>other.
>
>My Least Favourite genres are jungle and breaks.  I've been exposed
>to jungle for the past two years, and I'm really really bored with
>it.  My favourite genres are Minimal Techno and Electro.  I'm also
>very into that very obnoxiously named genre called intelligent
>techno.
>
>So maybe if somebody would have some recommendations for some places
>I might like to hit, you could post them here, or send them to me
>personally, or flame me loudly saying we don't need such a
>vibe-killing trendoid like me ruining your scene.  Any of the above
>would be helpful.
>
>PLUR,
>
>Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
>
>
>
>freshie
>Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
>http://silly.com/~tang

This was the funniest post in ages!!! :)  Freshie's fresh!
(Damn, I love using that old skool lingo, bringing that beat back).

There are plenty of places here to cater to your tastes housewise:
Abstract Soul, and if you dare Stompy.

Others can clue you on the techno tip.

Both are solid, over 21, drinking and smoke free environs.  Enjoy!

People, lighten up.  Classic New York humor & attitude.  A crisp breeze!

Out,
John

"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 06:48:02 1998
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From: Adam oooo <sordidpuppy@yahoo.com>
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To the person who stole my laser at Acid Breaks:

First off, I bear you no ill will. What's the point, harboring a
grudge about something that has passed and is done with? You must
understand, however, that when I said you could see it, I didn't mean
you could toss it in your pocket and walk away, then whirl around and
take a swing at me when I attempted to talk to you.
Needless to say, you destroyed my vibe and my evening. Maybe i'm
hopelessly naive, but I simply cannot understand why someone would go
to a rave and spread around such terrible vibes. It beats PLUR,
overexposed but meaningful nontheless, directly into the mud.

A word of caution: One of these days, Karma is going to come around
and bite you on the ass. Ideally, Karma will manifest itself in the
form of a speeding Buick.
Whoops! That sounds like a grudge. Disregard it. =\

Peace,
Zet




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 06:48:30 1998
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To the person who stole my laser at Acid Breaks:

First off, I bear you no ill will. What's the point, harboring a
grudge about something that has passed and is done with? You must
understand, however, that when I said you could see it, I didn't mean
you could toss it in your pocket and walk away, then whirl around and
take a swing at me when I attempted to talk to you.
Needless to say, you destroyed my vibe and my evening. Maybe i'm
hopelessly naive, but I simply cannot understand why someone would go
to a rave and spread around such terrible vibes. It beats PLUR,
overexposed but meaningful nontheless, directly into the mud.

A word of caution: One of these days, Karma is going to come around
and bite you on the ass. Ideally, Karma will manifest itself in the
form of a speeding Buick.
Whoops! That sounds like a grudge. Disregard it. =\

Peace,
Zet




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 07:05:13 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:02:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
cc: Dj Marq <DjMarq@aol.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  lUUNATiK <luunatik@192.122.209.42>
Subject: Re: smoking was:Re: I am one happy kid!
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about the smoking @ maritime hall..
january 1st a law was passed against smoking in bars, and just about any
inside place. 
happy kids was a legal party (hence the 4am ending)
legally, we had to keep everyone from smoking.
at any given time, someone can report the maritime hall to some health
bureau and they can get the place in trouble now.
so unfortunately, i don't know if maritime hall was no smoking BEFORE the
new year, but nowadays, you can't smoke there.
can't smoke anywhere inside public i guess.
something about second hand smoke being more dangerous than first hand...
xo
lara


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 07:16:19 1998
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To: SFRavEs Mailing List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
Subject: (NRR) Santa Cruz<->SF Connection
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Hi Everyone,

If you make semi-regular trips to Santa Cruz from SF, please email me, I am
setting up a list of people that do that perhasp we can carpool
periodically.

Thanks,

Deepfog



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 07:19:29 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: Titanic... any coincidence?? I think not....
In-Reply-To: <c860aeec.34bae69e@aol.com>
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actually darlin, not to rain on your parade but
the movie is historically correct, and the titanic sunk WAY before the
term E was invented, and before MDMA was even invented. :)
they didn't know how to party, they knew how to play
the rich vs. the poor in a dog-eat-dog world.
xo
lara

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, TeKnODiVa wrote:

>  Hey people, what's up?? Doing well, i hope?  Ok, sNIKers and I just sat
> through 2 hours and 74 minutes (WAIT! 3 hours and 14 minutes) of Titanic and
> hm... there are some amazing things about their little boat party.  
> 
> 1st:  When they're not in first class, they spend all their time on the E deck
> 
> 2nd:  The E deck sign comes up at least 20 times in the movie
> 
> 3rd:  They have more fun partying on the E deck, where everyone is wasted
> 
> Coincidence?? NAh.. these kids knew how to party>  Heck.. they didn't shut off
> the music till the boat went all the way under water.  Yep =)~*
> But I'm never going on a boat again.
> 
>        hugs n'stuff,
>          'trice the tekno diva
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 07:24:37 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:16:46 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: KRR/SALE: DJ GEAR $1400!
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At 9:47 AM -0800 1/12/98, *byroni* wrote:
>Look for DJ gear?? Well, my buddy is moving and
>needs to get rid of his. So he's selling it...
>
>. Technics 1200s x 2
>  (w/ Blue Ortfon Needles)
>
>. Rane MP22X (1 Month Old)
>
>$1400
>
>If interested e-mail me <<privately>>.

FYI, this configuration sells for about $2000 new, so I'd consider this a
fair deal. :-)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 07:27:00 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:26:50 EST
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=)  Hi SF ravers!

=)  I'm brand new to the SF Raves list. . .name's John from Sacramento.  I'm
18 and never been to a rave (this sounds like a nice place to learn about rave
culture).  I took 1997 off from school to get spiritually centered but am
enrolled at Sierra (the local JC) this semester, double majoring in philosphy
and communications;  I want to write.  I have been a Starbucks partner for 2
years (to all those who are anti-Starbucks:  I do have a Peet's card =).
Guitar, harmonica, writing and enthusiasm for life are some of my passions.

=)  Nice to be here, hopefully I'll see some of you in the future at a rave.
I've always heard so much about the energy and positivity of rave culture, I'm
excited to go to my first one! =)

=)  P.L.U.R. and best wishes,

=)  John S.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 07:27:51 1998
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From: Giles Bowkett <giles@bowkett.com>
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To: Sounds Good <hernancz@sirius.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: yo freshie
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Sounds Good wrote:

>Would the P.S. message make Giles "provincial" or Freshie "Provincial".
>Or is it that we are so "Provincial", that when we are sarcastic, we are 
>a bit "quaint".  You didnt hurt my feelings but maybe you hurt 
>Sister Kitty's feelings. ;-)
>
>Giles Bowkett wrote:
>> It's very hip but
>> at the same time it's kind of provincial. People don't always seem to
>> understand sarcasm or attitude here.
>>   (PS - you probably don't really want to check out the Mother Lode. It's
>> for folks with extremely specific tastes.)

  Who's Sister Kitty? I didn't mean 'provincial' as a dis to SF - it's
just kind of true. There's less than a million people living in the city,
and this just isn't a place with a big city flavor. I love it here, but it
took me forever to adapt when I first arrived, because I was very much
used to a big city point of view.
  Anyway, no disrespect, and no real desire to get into a flame war (or a
long debate over the flavors of respective cities).


                                                             w
                                                             w
                                                             w
  / // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //    b         \\ \
   // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //     o          \\
  // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //      w           \\
  / // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //       k            \
  \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\       e            /
  \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\      t           //
   \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\     t          //
  \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\    c         // /
                                                             o
                                                             m



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 07:55:16 1998
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Subject: Re: Live 105?
To: Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com (Stirling, Earl)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:41:32 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org, tyyoung@ucdavis.edu
In-Reply-To: <933713F1FB7BD111AC2300A0C98F1AD101082F@MILXPR06> from "Stirling, Earl" at Jan 12, 98 06:56:00 pm
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> KALX (Cal's station @ 90.7) has continual bit about how they REALLY
> played song/group X first and not Live 105 like they claim.... Between
> KALX, KZSU (Stanford, 90.1) and KFJC (DeAnza Foothills CC, 89.7)
> stations there is continually some great stuff on.

The Bay Area is indeed lucky. Don't forget KSJS (San Jose State) and
KUSF.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 08:04:37 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, moki4u2c@hotmail.com, smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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Subject: Re: song i.d. please
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>also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the new one is
> called "House Nation" ...want to hook my friends up on the
>east coast...thanks y'all...peace...

That would be "House Nation Under a Groove" by Da Rebels.  It is pretty
hard to find.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 08:05:25 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:02:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: How the name Deepfog came into being?
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Deepfog wrote:

> >DJ Deepfog, at this point, is going to be the creator of a new sound
> >called Deepfog Acid, which is like hard acid with some Jungly
> >drum'n'bass.
> >

Deepfog Acid?  This sounds strangely like Speed Garage to me, kids...

:D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 08:27:26 1998
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To: lara@vibe.org, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
From: Mike Wertheim <mikew@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: NRR: Titanic... any coincidence?? I think not....
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> actually darlin, not to rain on your parade but
> the movie is historically correct, and the titanic sunk WAY before
> the term E was invented, and before MDMA was even invented. :)

It doesn't surprise me that the Titanic has E references any more than it
surprises me that the structure of the Bay Bridge contains references to
candyflipping.

The Bay Bridge was constructed in the 1930s.  LSD was discovered in the
1940s, and the psychedelic properties of MDMA were discovered in the 1960s.

Try this the next time you are driving on the top deck of the Bay Bridge
(i.e. driving from the East Bay into SF).  On the first half of the bridge
(the part that connects Oakland to Treasure Island), look for the letter
"A" in the structure of the bridge.  Once you see it, you will see a *lot*
of them.  And when you get to the second half of the bridge (the part that
connects Treasure Island to SF), look for the letter "X" in the structure
of the bridge.  There are fewer X's than A's (which makes sense, since X is
so much more expensive than A).

It's not that there just happens to be a few A's and X's in the Bay Bridge.
It's more like the Bay Bridge is actually built almost entirely out of A's
and X's.

So, what is the message behind these two oddities?  Well, let's see... What
do the Titanic and the Bay Bridge have in common?  The answer, of course,
is that they are both associated with large quantities of water.  So the
message that the universe is trying to tell us is:

DRINK LOTS OF WATER WHEN YOU CANDYFLIP.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 08:30:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:37:03 +0100
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From: moshe1@jps.net (Moshe Kasher)
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>randy said-
> Your not our friend Moshe. Most of us don't even know you (or care to).
>


Randy ive put alot of thought into this. You are right.NO one here is my
freind,no one likes me,thank you for helping me see the light.

humbly,moshe



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 08:43:53 1998
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Subject: Re: NRR: Titanic... any coincidence?? I think not....
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See what happens when you build bridge....Up it goes
and next thing you know you have kids doing acid and E.
I wonder what would happen if we built another bridge.
Maybe we could use the E and A to build bridges between
our hearts...that would be a nice completion of the circle
now wouldnt it?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

-------------------------------------
MIke Wertheim wrote:

> The Bay Bridge was constructed in the 1930s.  LSD was discovered in the
> 1940s, and the psychedelic properties of MDMA were discovered in the 1960s.
> 

> It's not that there just happens to be a few A's and X's in the Bay Bridge.
> It's more like the Bay Bridge is actually built almost entirely out of A's
> and X's.
> 
> So, what is the message behind these two oddities?  Well, let's see... What
> do the Titanic and the Bay Bridge have in common?  The answer, of course,
> is that they are both associated with large quantities of water.  So the
> message that the universe is trying to tell us is:
> 
> DRINK LOTS OF WATER WHEN YOU CANDYFLIP.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 08:51:16 1998
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> See what happens when you build bridge....Up it goes
> and next thing you know you have kids doing acid and E.

Are you implying that the Bay Bridge is some sort of "gateway" drug?


> Maybe we could use the E and A to build bridges between
> our hearts...that would be a nice completion of the circle
> now wouldnt it?

As long as it doesn't collapse when the monster earthquake strikes.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 09:58:47 1998
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Subject: Re: Why Rave
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>That said, why do *you* rave?

that's a compelling question. something along the lines of "why are we
here?" ok, maybe not that intense... =) here's my thoughts, for what
they're worth:

i've been thinking a lot on this subject lately. people always say that the
scene itself is cyclical, as are our relationships with it. i guess i'm
entering a phase of that cycle i haven't seen before... *gasp* am i growing
up? gosh, i turn 20 this year!

a thought, i think someone else asked earlier: what does it say about the
depth of community that we often refer to this as a "scene" ? maybe
nothing, it's just a word. maybe it says a lot.

when i first fell in to this lovely idea we call rave, it was pretty
overwhelming. never had i had experiences like this before, and i'm not
talking about drugs at all (we'll get to that later). i'm talking about
just the idea of people coming together to dance, places to do such a thing
not only existing but also fun ideas like a "creation wall" to draw on or
video feedback being explored. and it was easy for me (especially WITH drug
enhancement) to project my utopian ideal world on to the new-found rave
world. to be fair, it's often closer than the daytime world. but it's not
exactly perfect. such is life. these are the realizations you come to.

first, music. after spending some time with it, one begins to know the
music in a more intimate way. and this is the foundation of "why i rave".
innovation, emotion, and technology coming together to make new sounds. i
dig. these days, i find myself listening with a more critical ear to the
DJ, appreciating good mixing and turntable skills. but forever lost is the
bliss of being unable to tell one song from the next all night long. this
change is a process. there's all sorts of analogies to growing up.

and then there's the drug aspect. (yes, i know this list is archived and
public.) no drug experience i've ever had, before or since, was like the
first time on MDMA. yes, there is a lot of potential to learn from this.
it's also simplistically easy to take a pill to have a good time,
guaranteed. i see a lot of my friends stagnant in their lives, stuck in a
routine of going to every "good" party, taking e, enjoying it, and moving
on to the next day without another thought. i'm not one (obviously) to
pontificate on the evils of drugs, but this isn't what i want from a drug
that i have felt has the potential for so much more. i want it to remain
special to me. i don't want my good times to just come from a capsule,
although they have in the past.

going to parties and staying sober is different when the newness of raving
has worn off. i feel like i see a much more balanced view, yet i miss that
effortless rise above the surroundings to feelings of joy at the simple
existance of the party. i get bummed out when i see people stand on the
dance floor and pose in brand name clothes that were made in a sweat shop
in a third world country. i get bummed when a DJ starts scratching, 50 kids
run up to the front, watch him scratch and then walk away as soon as he
stops and miss seeing him actually drop the next record and perform the
mix. i get bummed out when people start to idolize certain DJs, and stop
listening to the actual music. i get bummed out when people smoke in
non-smoking places. lots of things. not to focus on the negative, but my
point is this: people do things at parties that i don't think they should
do, that i think take away from what we can create together. but this is
only my opinion, and i don't feel that i have the right to take away
someone else's good time just because i don't like how they do it.

*boom* suddenly the rave world looks a lot more like the real world again.
same people, same problems. so now i feel myself evolving, trying to take
what i loved so much about the way things felt and make that more real.
with one of my friends (mattd@cwnet.com), i'm trying to put together a drum
and bass early evening event at a local coffee shop. remember, i live in
vacaville. =) and i'm thinking about the future a lot. i'd like to host
parties some day, but they would probably be private. but then there's the
whole elitism thing, which i do want to avoid. so it gets complicated.
maybe i'll just work on graduating from college first.

well, somehow "why do you rave" turned in to "tell us all about your
thoughts on your experience with the rave scene and also where you are in
life" but i'm glad it did... sfraves is a place i feel like sharing all
this stuff, and hopefully there's some kindred souls out there... and now,
good night...


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 10:08:30 1998
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To: <lara@vibe.org>, <SFRaves@hyperreal.org>,
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Subject: Re: NRR: Titanic... any coincidence?? I think not....
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Interestingly enough, the letters E and A are both in
the expression Straight-Edge.

*grin*

-kim, an always musically enhanced and rarely chemically
enhanced continous dance fanatic
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Wertheim <mikew@hyperreal.org>
To: lara@vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>; SFRaves@hyperreal.org
<SFRaves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: NRR: Titanic... any coincidence?? I think not....


>
>> actually darlin, not to rain on your parade but
>> the movie is historically correct, and the titanic sunk WAY before
>> the term E was invented, and before MDMA was even invented. :)
>
>It doesn't surprise me that the Titanic has E references any more than it
>surprises me that the structure of the Bay Bridge contains references to
>candyflipping.
>
>The Bay Bridge was constructed in the 1930s.  LSD was discovered in the
>1940s, and the psychedelic properties of MDMA were discovered in the 1960s.
>
>Try this the next time you are driving on the top deck of the Bay Bridge
>(i.e. driving from the East Bay into SF).  On the first half of the bridge
>(the part that connects Oakland to Treasure Island), look for the letter
>"A" in the structure of the bridge.  Once you see it, you will see a *lot*
>of them.  And when you get to the second half of the bridge (the part that
>connects Treasure Island to SF), look for the letter "X" in the structure
>of the bridge.  There are fewer X's than A's (which makes sense, since X is
>so much more expensive than A).
>
>It's not that there just happens to be a few A's and X's in the Bay Bridge.
>It's more like the Bay Bridge is actually built almost entirely out of A's
>and X's.
>
>So, what is the message behind these two oddities?  Well, let's see... What
>do the Titanic and the Bay Bridge have in common?  The answer, of course,
>is that they are both associated with large quantities of water.  So the
>message that the universe is trying to tell us is:
>
>DRINK LOTS OF WATER WHEN YOU CANDYFLIP.
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 12:57:08 1998
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Subject: happy kids (late....)
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Hey everyone....

I've read the posts on the Happy Kids' party and I'm glad 2 see everyone had
as much fun as I did....  it just seemed like it was the perfect party! Not 2
big, not 2 small, loud enough, etc.... I've still got "bass" chills going
on....  (but maybe it's the weather....  naw)

I think the only thing I would have changed is the security ....
They were really uptight at (most of the...) times.

I got to meet some really kewl SFRAVERS too...

Props to:
Uncle Noah ~ for playing the funkiest beats!  hope u play the bay again soon!
Haze ~ 'cuz u r the sweetest....  thanx again 4 the bracelet!!
Lara ~ 'cuz u always had a smile =)
Rudi ~ 'cuz u had the vibe going on...!
Marq ~ for being real... peace
 and of course, Alex ~ 'cuz u r just the f@8k*#g kewlest... thanx man!!!

***this is where short term memory sets in....
...this party was so phat i met so many peeps but i'll have 2 catch up with u
later....

~Michael


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 13:02:26 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:02:16 -0500
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
From: SLiNKy Dee <dynamic@interlog.com>
Subject: Coming to SanFran to Visit
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Hi all,

This is SLiNKyDee from Toronto, Canada.  Yes, we're freezing our butts off
up here, but I'll be getting away from it for a short while. :)  I'll be in
San Francisco on business from Wednesday, January 14 to Monday, January 19. 

Of course, business will only take Thursday and Friday, so I'm wondering:

Any recommended jungle, happy hardcore (maybe I'm pushing my luck there) or
HARD house (not deep) club nights or events in that time ?  I'll party
every night if possible. :)  Locations and phone numbers would help even
more.  How accessible are these events via transit or taxi ?

Secondly, record stores - my style is classic house.  Any good stores (even
used vinyl outlets) that I can hit ?  

I have already visited the web site on hyperreal, and was rather
overwhelmed by the sheer amount of information. :)

Also, what areas of town should I avoid ?

Looking forward to visiting your fine city.


                .-.     .-.     .-.
 |||||/\/\/\/\ /    Slinky Dee /   \ /\/\/\|||||
              '     `-'     `-'  
formerly SLiNKy GaL	     CASHP #26-96-I, FOA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 14:21:55 1998
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To: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>, fafol@royalblueny.com
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: so you met my friend freshie 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 98 17:03:39 EST."
             <v04003a26b0e040ed3699@[207.168.222.15]> 
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 06:21:39 -0800
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Damn, maybe I should move to NYC. I read Freshie's message and I felt
an immediate rapport, especially the dissing of PLUR, and those
candyravers that have turned some of the SF rave scene into some kind
of cool high-school sosh thing. I wouldn't describe myself as a
clubkid, but I actually recall that clubkids I hung out with in NYC
when checking out various places in the mid-late 80's (Palladium (ok,
so i'm lame), Save the Robots, etc) were actually a lot more open and
friendly than any candy raver I've ever met. The only way a candy raver
will show you any PLUR is if you're on the same drugs as they are and
wearing those godawful lame-ass UGLY raverclothes, glitter, and/or
stoopid hairdo's whose only purpose is to piss off yer mommies. Really
no differnet than a pack of izod/polo-wearing fratboys and blazer-chick
sororitygirls only accepting "their own" and turning up their noses at
those that aren't just like they are. But I guess when you're 16-20 you
feel you need a "pack" to run with and you can define "you" by the
pants you wear, which is pretty shallow, IMHO... I guess that's what I
like about normal "club" over-21 raves in SF... that you actually feel
real unity when a bunch of lone-wolves of different 
backgrounds/races/colors/sexes/orientations/etc get together despite
their differences and dance. 

In any case, I saw Freshie's message as OBVIOUSLY humorous, and 
detecting that humor is definitely not a SF thing or a left coast
thing. People that didn't notice it probably suffer from that horrible
brain-inflammation known as PLUR that leaves you as stupid and
repressed and humorless as the dourest blueblood protestant. Hopefully,
it's a passing thing. I think it passes rather quickly, like when
mommie kicks you out of the house and you have to get a job,
feed/house/clothe yourself and actually function along with
society/reality and accept/compromise with all the bullshit that real
life has to offer.

That's probably what I like about NYC folks. They're real, and the
realities/harshness they face is what makes them interesting, not 
their child-like innocence. That's a trait that makes toddlers and
babies interesting and fun, not adults.

Also, Dori, I must say, this is classic:
| now you guys BE NICE and San Franciscan and show freshie a good time.
| Besides, i remember when I was on sfraves and I heard people making MUCH
| worse idiots out of themselves than freshie...  i mean hell, remember the
| girl with the crisis situation because mom couldn't understand the price of
| jncos and took away her glitter?  come ON folks!

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 15:28:44 1998
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From: "brian j tang" <fafol@royalblueny.com>
Organization: royalblue
To: Sqwhirl <Sqwhirl@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:32:48 -0500
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Subject: Re: 12b --> was re:My Name Is freshie
Reply-To: fafol@royalblueny.com
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> as i have recently moved frm NY myself...and too see such a familiar on
> here...
> hark is dat 12b i see? oooh man oh man.....heheh i dont even know if i should 
> further comment on that one...may break out in giggles....
>  
> *remembering nights on the fire escape*
> ~p

12b is infamous even out on sfraves.  I'm a latecomer to it myself.
 
> >
> >Hey guys..
> >
> >I kind of know freshie and some of the "12b" posse
> >and they are pretty kewl. They are just from NYC can
> >you blame them?? Home of Keoki need I say more?
> >hehehe naw but for reals he is a nice guy don't flame
> >him to hard.
> >
> >Hi phressssiiieeee
> >
> >Macadio 
> >
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 16:14:49 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:08:43 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Why Rave
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In a message dated 1/13/98, you wrote:

<< i guess i'm entering a phase of that cycle i haven't seen before... *gasp*
am i growing up? gosh, i turn 20 this year!>>

MAN, I wish *I* was 20 again!!  Are you at MIT?  Duh, of course you are, your
name says it :)  Well, when I was 20, I was a junior at a no-name ivy league
institution  and knew *nothing* about raving, or even electronica/techno for
that matter.  I was so caught up in school....work work work....and it was
only when I moved to Cali that I got the opportunity to learn to *enjoy* life
(while at grad school, mind you!!) and see that there is a *whole* other
dimension out there that I had "missed out on" while pursuing the endless
string of problem sets I was always wrapped up in while at college.  I agree
completely with your post about raving.....it's something which holds such a
special place in my heart because it helped me to see a world outside the
stress-laden unforgiving boundaries of my textbooks and lab...

<<going to parties and staying sober is different when the newness of raving
has worn off. i feel like i see a much more balanced view, yet i miss that
effortless rise above the surroundings to feelings of joy at the simple
existance of the party. >>

Yup yup, I hear ya.  It' s a completely different eXperience raving sober, yet
one that is just as enjoyable - just in a different way.  I tend to feed off
the existing vibe more, instead of creating my own.  i realize how much I
*still* love the music, despite my lack of "enhancers"  ;)  And I realize that
yes, raving has changed me for the better, because I realize that I can be
productive and intelligent and ambitious but STILL enjoy something as
beautiful and effortless as music, and go on a mental journey every time I
immerse myself in its arms. 

You are quite wise, compared my myself when I was in college in your same
position.  You have experienced a dimension of life at 20 that I never even
knew existed until a few years ago....and i know that i am changed (in a good
way) forever  :)

take care sweetie,
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 16:24:49 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:17:59 EST
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Subject: X's and A's on the bridge
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In a message dated 1/13/98 1:32:09 AM, you wrote:

<<Try this the next time you are driving on the top deck of the Bay Bridge
(i.e. driving from the East Bay into SF).  On the first half of the bridge
(the part that connects Oakland to Treasure Island), look for the letter
"A" in the structure of the bridge.  Once you see it, you will see a *lot*
of them.  And when you get to the second half of the bridge (the part that
connects Treasure Island to SF), look for the letter "X" in the structure
of the bridge. >>

I think I'd get into an accident before I found all the X's and A's!!  
Geez, i have all to do just to walk & chew gum, here... =D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 16:39:49 1998
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References: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 98 17:03:39 EST."            
 <v04003a26b0e040ed3699@[207.168.222.15]>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:41:50 -0800
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: so you met my friend freshie
Cc: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>, fafol@royalblueny.com,
  "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 6:21 AM -0800 1/13/98, Niels P. Mayer wrote:
>Damn, maybe I should move to NYC. I read Freshie's message and I felt
>an immediate rapport, especially the dissing of PLUR, and those
>candyravers that have turned some of the SF rave scene into some kind
>of cool high-school sosh thing. I wouldn't describe myself as a
>clubkid, but I actually recall that clubkids I hung out with in NYC
>when checking out various places in the mid-late 80's (Palladium (ok,
>so i'm lame), Save the Robots, etc) were actually a lot more open and
>friendly than any candy raver I've ever met. The only way a candy raver
>will show you any PLUR is if you're on the same drugs as they are and
>wearing those godawful lame-ass UGLY raverclothes, glitter, and/or
>stoopid hairdo's whose only purpose is to piss off yer mommies. Really
>no differnet than a pack of izod/polo-wearing fratboys and blazer-chick
>sororitygirls only accepting "their own" and turning up their noses at
>those that aren't just like they are. But I guess when you're 16-20 you
>feel you need a "pack" to run with and you can define "you" by the
>pants you wear, which is pretty shallow, IMHO... I guess that's what I
>like about normal "club" over-21 raves in SF... that you actually feel
>real unity when a bunch of lone-wolves of different
>backgrounds/races/colors/sexes/orientations/etc get together despite
>their differences and dance.

Said as only the one Neils P. Mayer could do.  Damn Hammer, don't hurt 'em!
The   "us" vs "them" mentality reigns supreme.  There are so many cliques
in SF it's mind boggling.  21+ clubs have less of this, but that is to be
exepected to a certain degree.  Age adds a certain amount of healthy
indifference IMO.

>
>In any case, I saw Freshie's message as OBVIOUSLY humorous, and
>detecting that humor is definitely not a SF thing or a left coast
>thing.

No because here on the left coast biting humor is called meaned spirited
and will not measure up well against four letter acronyms often bandied
about but rarely implemented.

> People that didn't notice it probably suffer from that horrible
>brain-inflammation known as PLUR that leaves you as stupid and
>repressed and humorless as the dourest blueblood protestant. Hopefully,
>it's a passing thing. I think it passes rather quickly, like when
>mommie kicks you out of the house and you have to get a job,
>feed/house/clothe yourself and actually function along with
>society/reality and accept/compromise with all the bullshit that real
>life has to offer.

Amen, and hallelujia!  Preach that word!  Yessir!

>
>That's probably what I like about NYC folks. They're real, and the
>realities/harshness they face is what makes them interesting, not
>their child-like innocence. That's a trait that makes toddlers and
>babies interesting and fun, not adults.

Yessir!

>
>Also, Dori, I must say, this is classic:
>| now you guys BE NICE and San Franciscan and show freshie a good time.
>| Besides, i remember when I was on sfraves and I heard people making MUCH
>| worse idiots out of themselves than freshie...  i mean hell, remember the
>| girl with the crisis situation because mom couldn't understand the price of
>| jncos and took away her glitter?  come ON folks!
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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"The first casualty of war is truth." - Rudyard Kipling



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 17:42:35 1998
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To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: song i.d. please
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:45:22 -0800
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what's up steve..

the song is called "house music" and it's by some guy... eddie
something-or-other.  the song has not yet been released but will be
coming out in a few weeks.  it's in a test press right now and a few djs
have it (Carlos and David Harness it seems, in the city.)  i'll get back
to you on his last name, i always seem to forget it but i'm sure you'll
be seeing it all over in the next 3 weeks...k?

also yes...imo..."the word is love" is still slamming in the city...my
personal fav right now is "show me" though.

miragirl

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Steven_Allas [SMTP:smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu]
> Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 8:12 PM
> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject:	Re: song i.d. please
> 
> In-Reply-To:
> UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=groovinkim+40connectexpress+2Ecom+3B@apollo's message
> of 01-12-98 15:22
> 
> forgot to attach this, sorry...
> 
> 
> >
> >I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat. nite...Hawaii
> is a
> few
> >hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before I went
> out...need
> >to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
> understands
> house
> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this song
> please
> let
> >me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the new one
> is
> called
> >"House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still slammin'
> around
> the
> >city?...want to hook my friends up on the east coast...thanks
> y'all...peace...
> >
> >aloha,
> >moki4u2c@hotmai.com
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 18:04:40 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:03:46 -0800 (PST)
From: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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To: absynthe@sirius.com
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Why Rave
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Raving is my "religion"... but I don't believe in the word "Religion"..
because in most people's eyes it's an ORGANIZED way of living that is
fundamentally a pretty *pushed-on-you* method of learning about devinity,
life practice and faith... anyone that needs to go to CHURCH every week to
regain their faith, admit their sins, and basically give their *soul* to
something that they were taught to believe in, are in my eyes, sheep.
Fallow your heart and believe in what you want to believe in. It's your life, 
and you have the choice. Anyone that denies themself this is nothing more
than a sheep.... 

By raving being a religion of sorts, a rave is actually more a place of
practice.... where a house, park, etc etc can be the same. You can be
anywhere. The only thing that needs to exist for you to practice, is your 
focus on what you're doing and what your purpose is at that moment.

Raving is about music and pure energy.... about delving deep within
myself, discovering who I am/and who others are even more, placing focus
on my soul. As I place focus on my soul I focus outward to my
brothers and sisters. 

Music  is a voice from within us that is brought to human ears by diligence, 
love for music, and love for others... because you want others to *feel*
and *experience* what you do when you hear a particular sound.... that
DEEP House sound.... the tribal elements... drumming... the
percussion... tropical elements....  all culminating into a *place* that
exists within us... something we're remembering from our pasts, or the
pasts of elements around us... on a universal, eternal scale...  even
though we haven't seen this *place* here on earth physically...
it doesn't matter because realistically, there are more places we'll
travel metaphysically then physically in our lifetimes... it doesn't matter
where/how we've seen things, the important thing is that we've *seen*
them....

I don't think RAVING is quite a fitting word for how I take parties. I
want to come up with a better term for myself. "RAVE" sounds like too much
of a PHYSICAL act. When I'm definately on a different level as I enter
into the deep fog as laser beams dance above me and around me.... telling
me to *be here now* and to place focus here... and let it take me to
where ever I wish to be. "Transcendence".... Heaven on Earth.... created
within my mind (by deep space transmissions from within) and supported by
the electronic elements of man... placed accordingly to create this
*place* that we see and feel, and can now somehow *touch*...

Raving = A Tribal Gathering of sorts, with people coming for different
reasons, giving different things, taking different things... but hopefully
keeping things in *balance*.... and creating a vibe (collective
conscienceness) that we all are apart of... and by us being apart of it,
itcan be nothing less than beautiful... so if you feel a vibe that is less
enjoyable, give your energy to the collective and you'll see how quickly
things change for the better.

So where's the rain??? :) 

...................... Byroni 


On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 absynthe@sirius.com wrote:

> I'm new to the list, and this is my first post.  The threads about Nomad
> and vibe have been churning around in my head, making me think about why I
> rave. Then I went to a very funny party over the weekend.  For the last
> year or so I've mostly gone to raves when I go out, but last Friday one of
> the guys at my work  dragged me along to this party.  I had a great time,
> but it did nothing but reaffirm me in my parting choices:  It was Yuppies
> wall to wall!!  Now I'm not down on yuppies, I've known and loved some.  I
> even imagine that I could be suspected of being one.  But I had forgotten
> what that world is like!
> 
> The first thing I noticed was the colors.  Far too many neatly pressed
> plaid shirts, granted, but most remarkable was that nearly all of the women
> were wearing black (in all honesty, me too).  They looked good, for the
> most part, but so somber.  Ravers just look so much more cheerful!  Maybe
> it is that ravers want to be kids forever, and yuppies just want to grow up.
> 
> What also struck me was the drinking.  I'm pretty sure now that alcohol is
> my *last* party drug of choice.
> 
> As I stood at the keg-something I haven't done in more than a few years-
> the guy standing next to me looked down at his red plastic cup and said
> "I've gotta pound three or four of these so I can get shitty."  He was
> already swaying on his feet.
> 
> As I listened to the DJ trainwreck her way through the night and just tried
> to dance, I got stepped on, spilled on, elbowed, leered at and felt up.
> 
> In the worst move of the night I saw some guy actually pick the needle up
> off of the record the DJ was spinning.  The DJ's skill aside, I can't even
> put into words how rude that was.  I'm not sure that more than a few of the
> people there noticed, however.
> 
> Etc. etc. etc.
> 
> I had a lot of fun, however.  I met really nice, interesting people: An
> architect, a graphics designer, someone in Human Resources.  I had several
> fabulous talks on why to love this city.  I met someone who might actually
> be a friend, and others who it would be nice to run into.  By the same
> token, many or all  of the things I have mentioned, both positive and
> negative, could easily happen at a rave.
> 
> But it wasn't the same.
> 
> I'm not going to describe raving--even from only being on this list since
> X-mas (props to Santa for my new modem) I see that *everyone* has their own
> way to feel  a rave.  We all know, deep down somewhere what it is we want
> from a rave, what our "vibe" is, or we wouldn't  keep going and looking for
> it.  When we find it though, it is sheer joy and glory.  That yuppie party,
> that glimpse into a different lifestyle allowed me to see again (or perhaps
> simply more clearly) what it is I can only find at a rave.  To me it is
> nameless, or just too large for mere words, but I know it when I feel it.
> 
> That said, why do *you* rave?
> 
> absynthe@sirius.com
> 
> 
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 18:25:53 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:20:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Carlos E Soto <philboyd@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Dj tapes wanted
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hey if you want a chance to play at a party in the next few months, please
send me a tape. i'm looking for stuff appropriate for an 11-12:30 time
slot and stuff good after 3:30 am. maybe some good breakbeat or happy
bounvy techno type stuff or morning house. clean mixing skills are
important as is interesting and varied song selection. most importantly
i'd like to get the feeling that a dj will really work a crowd (although i
know its sometimes hard to convey this in tapes.

if interested please send a tape to Dj pistachio
                                    1820 fairview st
                                     berkeley, ca 94703

or if you want more info and have questions reply to this message.
thanks for your time :)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 18:29:17 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doreen <COSTAD@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: happy kids, better late than never
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ok, sorry this is late, and short too, but ihave to be at work a half 
hour ago.  
i agree with everybody, the security were dicks.  i got yelled at 
twice by the downstairs lady (maybe lady is overshooting) once for 
being in the bathroom when there were ppl outside waiting (so sorry) 
and another for trying to torch up downstairs using my new christmas 
present (thank you lara SO much).
other than that, i guess there wasn't much to say.  i finally got to 
hear uncle noah's set which was rad.  i liked the jungle downstairs, 
sifu and honeyb.  then marty and ian came on...
ok, late for work. bye

doreen

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 18:42:00 1998
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Subject: Re: Why Rave
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I agree with you. The reason people post on the subject and then go off on
tangents is because this is so much to us.... what it means floods
guidelines.

I think perhaps we'll have to have private parties... private to those who
are positive, and are on the same level of meaning and undestanding.... or
those who wish to be. Because I know exactly what you're saying about kids
dressed in Tommy Hilfiger clothes, looking *better* than the rest in
*their* eyes.... when we should all be equal and that's what it's about.
Moving beyond *this* and on to something greater... as ***one***. So lets
not focus on our clothes, but on -*eachother*-.... it's nice to look good,
but sometimes $100 pants can be reconsidered..... :) It's so evidant
that some people just don't take it as deep or place as much of
themselves into this... but that's fine... the problem is when it's
becoming more and more like this... and we're having to go underground
even more and more to find that vibe we're after.... until you reach the
point where there is only a speaker, 2 turntables, and a DJ and his sound... 
and you.... because anything that isn't giving to the collective, is
taking away from it. By giving to the collective you're giving to
yourself. We are all one and the same.

The main problem I see is when promoters PROMOTE to the masses... and the
masses aren't generally going to give positive energy to the vibe of a
party. So what exactly is the promoter's intension.... it can't be the
vibe of the party, because they know what the average citizen is like...
but they also know what their capable of (giving, loving, discovering who
they really are)... so are they interested in getting as many oxygen
aborbers in one place and cashing in, or are they interested in spreading
the good energy and enlightening others....??? I think if it was trully
the second opion, they wouldn't be packing people into wharehouses that
are unpermited, lack ventalation, generally dark and uncomfortable, and
$20!!!..... People... we need to organize more events such as SUNSET...
where the price tag is positive notions... and kindness to others...
Money spoils the truth that we're seeking.... and the truth that we
discover is frightening....     exploitation for financial gain.... when
someone turns their back on their real intensions and focuses on
themselves.... 

Hmmmm..........

Byron

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, b e n c h u n wrote:

> >That said, why do *you* rave?
> 
> that's a compelling question. something along the lines of "why are we
> here?" ok, maybe not that intense... =) here's my thoughts, for what
> they're worth:
> 
> i've been thinking a lot on this subject lately. people always say that the
> scene itself is cyclical, as are our relationships with it. i guess i'm
> entering a phase of that cycle i haven't seen before... *gasp* am i growing
> up? gosh, i turn 20 this year!
> 
> a thought, i think someone else asked earlier: what does it say about the
> depth of community that we often refer to this as a "scene" ? maybe
> nothing, it's just a word. maybe it says a lot.
> 
> when i first fell in to this lovely idea we call rave, it was pretty
> overwhelming. never had i had experiences like this before, and i'm not
> talking about drugs at all (we'll get to that later). i'm talking about
> just the idea of people coming together to dance, places to do such a thing
> not only existing but also fun ideas like a "creation wall" to draw on or
> video feedback being explored. and it was easy for me (especially WITH drug
> enhancement) to project my utopian ideal world on to the new-found rave
> world. to be fair, it's often closer than the daytime world. but it's not
> exactly perfect. such is life. these are the realizations you come to.
> 
> first, music. after spending some time with it, one begins to know the
> music in a more intimate way. and this is the foundation of "why i rave".
> innovation, emotion, and technology coming together to make new sounds. i
> dig. these days, i find myself listening with a more critical ear to the
> DJ, appreciating good mixing and turntable skills. but forever lost is the
> bliss of being unable to tell one song from the next all night long. this
> change is a process. there's all sorts of analogies to growing up.
> 
> and then there's the drug aspect. (yes, i know this list is archived and
> public.) no drug experience i've ever had, before or since, was like the
> first time on MDMA. yes, there is a lot of potential to learn from this.
> it's also simplistically easy to take a pill to have a good time,
> guaranteed. i see a lot of my friends stagnant in their lives, stuck in a
> routine of going to every "good" party, taking e, enjoying it, and moving
> on to the next day without another thought. i'm not one (obviously) to
> pontificate on the evils of drugs, but this isn't what i want from a drug
> that i have felt has the potential for so much more. i want it to remain
> special to me. i don't want my good times to just come from a capsule,
> although they have in the past.
> 
> going to parties and staying sober is different when the newness of raving
> has worn off. i feel like i see a much more balanced view, yet i miss that
> effortless rise above the surroundings to feelings of joy at the simple
> existance of the party. i get bummed out when i see people stand on the
> dance floor and pose in brand name clothes that were made in a sweat shop
> in a third world country. i get bummed when a DJ starts scratching, 50 kids
> run up to the front, watch him scratch and then walk away as soon as he
> stops and miss seeing him actually drop the next record and perform the
> mix. i get bummed out when people start to idolize certain DJs, and stop
> listening to the actual music. i get bummed out when people smoke in
> non-smoking places. lots of things. not to focus on the negative, but my
> point is this: people do things at parties that i don't think they should
> do, that i think take away from what we can create together. but this is
> only my opinion, and i don't feel that i have the right to take away
> someone else's good time just because i don't like how they do it.
> 
> *boom* suddenly the rave world looks a lot more like the real world again.
> same people, same problems. so now i feel myself evolving, trying to take
> what i loved so much about the way things felt and make that more real.
> with one of my friends (mattd@cwnet.com), i'm trying to put together a drum
> and bass early evening event at a local coffee shop. remember, i live in
> vacaville. =) and i'm thinking about the future a lot. i'd like to host
> parties some day, but they would probably be private. but then there's the
> whole elitism thing, which i do want to avoid. so it gets complicated.
> maybe i'll just work on graduating from college first.
> 
> well, somehow "why do you rave" turned in to "tell us all about your
> thoughts on your experience with the rave scene and also where you are in
> life" but i'm glad it did... sfraves is a place i feel like sharing all
> this stuff, and hopefully there's some kindred souls out there... and now,
> good night...
> 
> 
> . . . . . . .
> benchun@mit.edu
> http://mdma.mit.edu/
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 18:50:28 1998
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To: mira@wellsfargo.com, Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Andrew Lawson <lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: RE: song i.d. please
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At 09:45 AM 1/13/98 -0800, mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
>what's up steve..
>
>the song is called "house music" and it's by some guy... eddie
>something-or-other.  the song has not yet been released but will be
>coming out in a few weeks.  it's in a test press right now and a few djs
>have it (Carlos and David Harness it seems, in the city.)  i'll get back
>to you on his last name, i always seem to forget it but i'm sure you'll
>be seeing it all over in the next 3 weeks...k?
>
>also yes...imo..."the word is love" is still slamming in the city...my
>personal fav right now is "show me" though.
>
>miragirl
>

The remix of house nation he is talking about was in the stores last
August... haven't seen it lately.  (Sorry... I can't remember the artist or
label.
Andrew



>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:	Steven_Allas [SMTP:smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu]
>> Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 8:12 PM
>> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
>> Subject:	Re: song i.d. please
>> 
>> In-Reply-To:
>> UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
>> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=groovinkim+40connectexpress+2Ecom+3B@apollo's message
>> of 01-12-98 15:22
>> 
>> forgot to attach this, sorry...
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> >I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat. nite...Hawaii
>> is a
>> few
>> >hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before I went
>> out...need
>> >to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
>> understands
>> house
>> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this song
>> please
>> let
>> >me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the new one
>> is
>> called
>> >"House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still slammin'
>> around
>> the
>> >city?...want to hook my friends up on the east coast...thanks
>> y'all...peace...
>> >
>> >aloha,
>> >moki4u2c@hotmai.com
>> 
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 19:02:12 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:05:08 -0800
To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
From: Megan Haggerty <megan@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Why Rave
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At 10:03 AM -0800 1/13/98, *byroni* wrote:
>Raving is my "religion"... but I don't believe in the word "Religion"..
>because in most people's eyes it's an ORGANIZED way of living that is
>fundamentally a pretty *pushed-on-you* method of learning about devinity,
>life practice and faith... anyone that needs to go to CHURCH every week to
>regain their faith, admit their sins, and basically give their *soul* to
>something that they were taught to believe in, are in my eyes, sheep.
>Fallow your heart and believe in what you want to believe in. It's your life,
>and you have the choice. Anyone that denies themself this is nothing more
>than a sheep....

I find it interesting that you think those who practice the religion they
were raised in as "sheep".  I am not a religious person, but I do respect
the choice of others to practice their religious rituals.  (*note: you
allow for the choice, but do not seem to respect it)  I do not assume that
they do this blindly.  Being raised in a Catholic family who is very
involved in their church community, I grew up submerged in religion.  I
constantly heard people questioning and challenging their faith.  I
witnessed several convertions.  Religion can be a strenuous discipline, a
familiar ritual or an open ended question.  I do not claim to understand
each and every reason people have for being involved with religion.  I try
not to make un-warrented assumptions about large groups of people; that's
called sterotyping.  Just as people rave for many different reasons, so do
those practicing religion.  Some enjoy the ritulas practiced; others may
simply prefer to worship with their community.  Tradition, alone, may be
their motivation.  Tradition is what keeps cultures together.  Societies
are based upon culture.  Culture is based on tradtions and rituals.
Religion is nothing without ritual.  Religion and culture is so
intertwined, the distinction is often impossible to make.

I am by no means saying that you or anyone else should run out and join up
with their local church.  I am simply requesting a bit more repsect of
others when it comes to discussion your personal religion of raving.

>
>By raving being a religion of sorts, a rave is actually more a place of
>practice.... where a house, park, etc etc can be the same. You can be
>anywhere. The only thing that needs to exist for you to practice, is your
>focus on what you're doing and what your purpose is at that moment.
>
>Raving is about music and pure energy.... about delving deep within
>myself, discovering who I am/and who others are even more, placing focus
>on my soul. As I place focus on my soul I focus outward to my
>brothers and sisters.
>
>Music  is a voice from within us that is brought to human ears by diligence,
>love for music, and love for others... because you want others to *feel*
>and *experience* what you do when you hear a particular sound.... that
>DEEP House sound.... the tribal elements... drumming... the
>percussion... tropical elements....  all culminating into a *place* that
>exists within us... something we're remembering from our pasts, or the
>pasts of elements around us... on a universal, eternal scale...  even
>though we haven't seen this *place* here on earth physically...
>it doesn't matter because realistically, there are more places we'll
>travel metaphysically then physically in our lifetimes... it doesn't matter
>where/how we've seen things, the important thing is that we've *seen*
>them....
>
>I don't think RAVING is quite a fitting word for how I take parties. I
>want to come up with a better term for myself. "RAVE" sounds like too much
>of a PHYSICAL act. When I'm definately on a different level as I enter
>into the deep fog as laser beams dance above me and around me.... telling
>me to *be here now* and to place focus here... and let it take me to
>where ever I wish to be. "Transcendence".... Heaven on Earth.... created
>within my mind (by deep space transmissions from within) and supported by
>the electronic elements of man... placed accordingly to create this
>*place* that we see and feel, and can now somehow *touch*...
>
>Raving = A Tribal Gathering of sorts, with people coming for different
>reasons, giving different things, taking different things... but hopefully
>keeping things in *balance*.... and creating a vibe (collective
>conscienceness) that we all are apart of... and by us being apart of it,
>itcan be nothing less than beautiful... so if you feel a vibe that is less
>enjoyable, give your energy to the collective and you'll see how quickly
>things change for the better.

You might be surprised to hear someone use similar words to describe their
relgious experiences.  In calling religious people sheep, you are robbing
them of their personal experiences and spirituality.  You are assuming they
put no emotion or thought into their lives.

I also find it interesting that you hope to keep raving in *balance*.  Does
this balance apply only to your rave world or to the world, at large?
Without balance of views, beliefs, and even religions, the world would
become a pale, scary place.  Respect is the key to balance.  Respect allows
contributions from all groups, not just those who agree with you or
understand you.

Respect... that's all I ask.
Megan

>
>So where's the rain??? :)
>
>...................... Byroni



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 19:06:47 1998
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Hey Andy I need to talk to you ASAP could you please
E-mail me or page me if you can?

Thanks,
Macadio 









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To: lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU, mira@wellsfargo.com,
  Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: song i.d. please
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Thanks Andrew...I'm actually talking about the song that he quoted ( see
below) but didn't know the name of...not the "House Nation" song.  


	>>...need
	>> to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
	>> understands
	>> house
>> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this song

miragirl

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Andrew Lawson [SMTP:lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU]
> Sent:	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 10:49 AM
> To:	mira@wellsfargo.com; Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu;
> sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject:	RE: song i.d. please
> 
> At 09:45 AM 1/13/98 -0800, mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> >what's up steve..
> >
> >the song is called "house music" and it's by some guy... eddie
> >something-or-other.  the song has not yet been released but will be
> >coming out in a few weeks.  it's in a test press right now and a few
> djs
> >have it (Carlos and David Harness it seems, in the city.)  i'll get
> back
> >to you on his last name, i always seem to forget it but i'm sure
> you'll
> >be seeing it all over in the next 3 weeks...k?
> >
> >also yes...imo..."the word is love" is still slamming in the
> city...my
> >personal fav right now is "show me" though.
> >
> >miragirl
> >
> 
> The remix of house nation he is talking about was in the stores last
> August... haven't seen it lately.  (Sorry... I can't remember the
> artist or
> label.
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:	Steven_Allas [SMTP:smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu]
> >> Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 8:12 PM
> >> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> >> Subject:	Re: song i.d. please
> >> 
> >> In-Reply-To:
> >>
> UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
> >> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=groovinkim+40connectexpress+2Ecom+3B@apollo's
> message
> >> of 01-12-98 15:22
> >> 
> >> forgot to attach this, sorry...
> >> 
> >> 
> >> >
> >> >I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat.
> nite...Hawaii
> >> is a
> >> few
> >> >hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before I went
> >> out...need
> >> >to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
> >> understands
> >> house
> >> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this
> song
> >> please
> >> let
> >> >me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the new
> one
> >> is
> >> called
> >> >"House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still
> slammin'
> >> around
> >> the
> >> >city?...want to hook my friends up on the east coast...thanks
> >> y'all...peace...
> >> >
> >> >aloha,
> >> >moki4u2c@hotmai.com
> >> 
> >
> >

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> That's probably what I like about NYC folks. They're real, and the
> realities/harshness they face is what makes them interesting, not
> their child-like innocence. That's a trait that makes toddlers and
> babies interesting and fun, not adults.

Much as I like to identify with NY folks, I have to disagree with above
generalization.  (Maybe living in SF for 7 years has had an impact on me
and made me less of a real New Yorker.)

I am currently involved in an email conversation with an old college friend
that I haven't seen in over 7 years.  She lives in NYC, recently completed
a law degree, and is now complaining that she doesn't like being a lawyer.
In addition to that, she also complains about aging.  She just turned 29
and complains that she is aging less gracefully than her peers, and she
says that she heard that "30 is like death".  (Meanwhile, I know a bunch of
30-something people in SF who have way more fun than a lot of the
20-something people I know, and I bet there are loads of fun 30-something
people in NYC, too.)

Is it the realities and harshnesses that my friend faces that makes her
interesting?  No, not at all!  She would be way more interesting if she
accepted that most of her "problems" are just her negative judgments of
what's going on in her life, and then stopped complaining and started
realizing that she can make changes that will improve her health, career
satisfaction, etc.

Going overboard with negativity is just as escapist and self-defeating as
going overboard with positivity.


Mike


PS -- Niels, this is my new preferred address.  I don't use
mw@ultraviolet.com for personal correspondence cuz it gets way too much
spam.

PPS -- Does anyone out there know where I can rent an ice cream truck for a
few weeks this summer?




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 19:39:43 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: miragirl RE: song i.d. please
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who does that song "show me"?...thanks...

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 20:13:49 1998
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It's funny how you can express an idea, and people will see two words
together (sheep & religion) that upset them and not interpret the meaning
as the person who stated it wanted it to be interpreted... but that is
really my fault, because for you or anyone to understand what I mean I
should tell you in person... 

lets see.. scroll down...

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Megan Haggerty wrote:

> At 10:03 AM -0800 1/13/98, *byroni* wrote:
> >Raving is my "religion"... but I don't believe in the word "Religion"..
> >because in most people's eyes it's an ORGANIZED way of living that is
> >fundamentally a pretty *pushed-on-you* method of learning about devinity,
> >life practice and faith... anyone that needs to go to CHURCH every week to
> >regain their faith, admit their sins, and basically give their *soul* to
> >something that they were taught to believe in, are in my eyes, sheep.
> >Fallow your heart and believe in what you want to believe in. It's your life,
> >and you have the choice. Anyone that denies themself this is nothing more
> >than a sheep....
> 
> I find it interesting that you think those who practice the religion they
> were raised in as "sheep".  I am not a religious person, but I do respect
> the choice of others to practice their religious rituals.  (*note: you
> allow for the choice, but do not seem to respect it)  I do not assume that
> they do this blindly.  Being raised in a Catholic family who is very
> involved in their church community, I grew up submerged in religion.  I
> constantly heard people questioning and challenging their faith.  I
> witnessed several convertions.  Religion can be a strenuous discipline, a
> familiar ritual or an open ended question.  I do not claim to understand
> each and every reason people have for being involved with religion.  I try
> not to make un-warrented assumptions about large groups of people; that's
> called sterotyping.  Just as people rave for many different reasons, so do
> those practicing religion.  Some enjoy the ritulas practiced; others may
> simply prefer to worship with their community.  Tradition, alone, may be
> their motivation.  Tradition is what keeps cultures together.  Societies
> are based upon culture.  Culture is based on tradtions and rituals.

I would say that our society lacks culture... and is too seperated between
the lines of races, nationality, religion.... Just look at Oakland for
instance.... I feel comfortable here... but for what reason??? Perhaps
because there are more minorities and we're more accepting of eachother
because we've always been minorities.... not of the majority. We're at the
other side of the table... aware of ignorance and hate. When there is no
reason for such things.... because if you sit down and think, there is no
logic between loving and hating someone depending on their skin color or
national origin..... 

Tradition is a continual loop of an act of way of thinking... simply
because it has happened before. We need to PROGRESS... and move away from
traditions that are unbenefitial to the collective... and having
traditions that lack this aspect is horrible... but people will not change
because it is a "Tradition" that their family practices... and things need
to change for change to take place.

> Religion is nothing without ritual.  Religion and culture is so
> intertwined, the distinction is often impossible to make.
> 

I don't agree. (if you're thinking of religion as Catholisism, etc)  I
think that most people these days do not have a REAL religion and choose to 
not focus on death and the like. Because they see religions as their only
real choice... when if they followed their own beliefs they would see that 
they trully have and can create their own way of living.... which could be
their own form of religion. Religion that is unbenificial to the community
is evident.... a lot of religions tell you and make you think that you're
HIGHER than others.. when in reality you're not. Thinking that you're
higher makes you lower... we are all the same. Some of us know the truth
that we feel and some do not. But we're all the same. 

> I am by no means saying that you or anyone else should run out and join up
> with their local church.  I am simply requesting a bit more repsect of
> others when it comes to discussion your personal religion of raving.
> 

I'm respecting the church/religion enough to bring the topic into the open
and share my opinions. I respect and love people and would like to say
what i have to say. What benefit do I gain by babble like I do...? None.
In fact I set myself up for arrows... but I have to tell you what's on my
mind and what i belive in so strongly. I want others to do the same and I
challenge you to do so. You've got fingers and a mind.. use them instead
of lurking.... :)


Sheep... baahh.. That's not what I meant. I was using the word "sheep" to
describe what i feel is someone that is unable to make their own choices, 
do not believe
in their own feelings, and  and *must* return to a place where they are *told* 
what to believe... (because they are conscience that they will go to
hell if they don't go to Church... regardless if they are good or bad) 
that they are bad, sinners, and should give their *soul*.... your soul is who 
you are (or actually a balance between the flesh and the soul is who youa 
re here... in my opinion), and to give yourself,your purpose, so blindly
is ridiculous and self destructive... losing your true identity as you are 
shifting the
responsibility and control of your life to a GOD. Just as you wouldn't
give your soul to evil... (or let a drunk fool drive you home form a
party) and how GOOD is this *being* that we don't know about until we're
told of them... shouldn't we *FEEL* GOD...? (GOD is WITHIN) and if you are
once told and do not FEEL GOD, why would you give your *soul* to it's/his 
control
(I've been to church a lot and they are always talking about "giving yourself 
to GOD, letting him control you.. as you are his servant)... what better
definition of such a being than a "Sheep"?? A sheep is an animal that
follows herds, has no real choice  (actually it has a choice, but it
relies on the decisions of a others and superiors [no one is superior...
but once you look at someone as a superior you have made yourself a person
less meaningful and powerful than he/she]  instead of it's
own...).... and I'm saying that you always have a choice, and if you're 
dening yourself that
choice if you don't follow your TRUE feelings... and forget the fear
factor and find out who you are here.. on earth... regardless if you're a
"sinner"... what is a sinner anyways??... I think a sinner is someone that
causes pain to others directly... intentionally.. a sinner isn't someone
who swears, does drugs, etc....  a good point would be the fact that if
you're GAY (meaning you choose to love someone of the same sex) you're
supposed to be going to hell.....   isn't it about LOVE... who said who
has the right to say who you can love. I have gay friends, and they are
beautiful(even more beautiful sometimes... just as anyone could be...) as
the rest of us.... can a RELIGION be so shallow as to set a rule on who you 
can love?????  strange..... ignorant.... STUPID. 

> >
> >By raving being a religion of sorts, a rave is actually more a place of
> >practice.... where a house, park, etc etc can be the same. You can be
> >anywhere. The only thing that needs to exist for you to practice, is your
> >focus on what you're doing and what your purpose is at that moment.
> >
> >Raving is about music and pure energy.... about delving deep within
> >myself, discovering who I am/and who others are even more, placing focus
> >on my soul. As I place focus on my soul I focus outward to my
> >brothers and sisters.
> >
> >Music  is a voice from within us that is brought to human ears by diligence,
> >love for music, and love for others... because you want others to *feel*
> >and *experience* what you do when you hear a particular sound.... that
> >DEEP House sound.... the tribal elements... drumming... the
> >percussion... tropical elements....  all culminating into a *place* that
> >exists within us... something we're remembering from our pasts, or the
> >pasts of elements around us... on a universal, eternal scale...  even
> >though we haven't seen this *place* here on earth physically...
> >it doesn't matter because realistically, there are more places we'll
> >travel metaphysically then physically in our lifetimes... it doesn't matter
> >where/how we've seen things, the important thing is that we've *seen*
> >them....
> >
> >I don't think RAVING is quite a fitting word for how I take parties. I
> >want to come up with a better term for myself. "RAVE" sounds like too much
> >of a PHYSICAL act. When I'm definately on a different level as I enter
> >into the deep fog as laser beams dance above me and around me.... telling
> >me to *be here now* and to place focus here... and let it take me to
> >where ever I wish to be. "Transcendence".... Heaven on Earth.... created
> >within my mind (by deep space transmissions from within) and supported by
> >the electronic elements of man... placed accordingly to create this
> >*place* that we see and feel, and can now somehow *touch*...
> >
> >Raving = A Tribal Gathering of sorts, with people coming for different
> >reasons, giving different things, taking different things... but hopefully
> >keeping things in *balance*.... and creating a vibe (collective
> >conscienceness) that we all are apart of... and by us being apart of it,
> >itcan be nothing less than beautiful... so if you feel a vibe that is less
> >enjoyable, give your energy to the collective and you'll see how quickly
> >things change for the better.
> 
> You might be surprised to hear someone use similar words to describe their
> relgious experiences.  In calling religious people sheep, you are robbing
> them of their personal experiences and spirituality.  You are assuming they
> put no emotion or thought into their lives.
> 

Religion is everything to people... That's fine. The people who are SHEEP
are those who are conscience of what they really want, and deny them self
this. It is my OWN opinion that people who are relgious in this manner are
sheep..
because if you follow a religion's true meaning... you realize that each
one has common meanings... and those elements exist within
and stem from spirituality... 
because I think spirituality is simply the underlying meaning within a
religion.. what makes religions wrong (in my opinion) is how the biases,
lack of intelligence and ignorance of the "enlightened" one who
interpreted the messages and wrote the scriptures... because as time
passes and we become more intelligent, you begin to see through the bs and
realize how unintelligent and closed minded most religious people really
are....   I can't tell you how many people I know that go to Church who 
are the most selfish, racist, closed minded individuals.... 

> I also find it interesting that you hope to keep raving in *balance*.  Does
> this balance apply only to your rave world or to the world, at large?
> Without balance of views, beliefs, and even religions, the world would
> become a pale, scary place.  Respect is the key to balance.  Respect allows
> contributions from all groups, not just those who agree with you or
> understand you.
> 

It's not my world. It's the world as I interpret it. And I'm not the only
one that interprets it this way. nothing on this Earth is MINE. It's
*ours*... for us to share. I respect everyone, and I accept them... but I
also have my opinions and I wish they respected mine... but people who are
so deep into the church don't want to think of spirituality.... because if
they did, they'd realize how all religion stem from it... and that they
are theorie.. and that someone wrote the bible.... a HUMAN being..ased on
feelings... just as I write my own spiritual beliefs.... I think the main
thing is that spiritual people aren't AFRAID... and religious people
trully are.. because they constantly need that reasurrance... every
sunday....   I don't question myself like this because my faith is not
blind, it's real... I've had experiences and moments that will forever
keep me at the place I am now... from the moments of being a child and
*knowing* and *feeling* something more.... something deeper... sitting in
Church knowing that the messages and ideas were passed on.. and not
necessary from the horse's mouth... if you have to be TOLD how to believe
and what to believe in there's a problem... my whole point was just to say
that I think it's sad that people might live a whole life before realizing
what they really wanted to do in life and what they wanted to believe....
it's a choice and freedome we're given.... and we should take advantage
of... because based on your beliefs and values, you will live your life
the way you choose....  

> Respect... that's all I ask.
> Megan
> 
> >
> >So where's the rain??? :)
> >
> >...................... Byroni
> 
> 
> 

I love everyone's spirit.... and I'm simply trying to express an idea a
feeling... a belief... to perhaps make them realize that deep down insdie
the same ideas and feeling exist for them.. because this isn't something
I've made up... but have been "reminded of" by something....  everything
we know was already known, everything we hear has already been heard... we
just have re-heard it... remembered it.... relived it.... nothing is new.

No one will fully understand you either... you just have to understand
yourself and focus energy on that... and try to accept that. But continue
to live and give....  

Just as I'm aware that I don't enjoy eating sardines and crakers all day,
I'm conscious of what I BELIEVE in. What would you do if were brought into
a sardine and cracker eating family and never said you didn't like what
you were being forced to eat.... and then when you finally say something
about it, the rest  of your family comes out and says the same thing...
and that they hadn't before because they were afraid to be an
individual... capble of making a decision... because they were never
given hat opportunity before and don't know how to go about it... but they
have said it now and with your support and love you can continue to
respect sardine eaters, but come up with your own snack that you can enjoy
and share with others....  :)  and now.. I am not on drugs...! I am on
life...


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
"another deep transmission from spacey byroni!" :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 20:22:32 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: miragirl RE: song i.d. please
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not sure who the singer is...miragirl knows the info...

aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com


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Lina Santiago does a version is that the one your
speaking of? 

LL





---Steven_Allas <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu> wrote:
>
> In-Reply-To:
UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=mira+40wellsfargo+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu's
message of 01-13-98 09:45
> 
> who does that song "show me"?...thanks...
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 20:24:50 1998
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Frankie Nuckles pun this track at Nikita... I feel in love with it and
needed it. If you can find out the producer of the same PLEASE post it
peoples...

Byroni

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:

> Thanks Andrew...I'm actually talking about the song that he quoted ( see
> below) but didn't know the name of...not the "House Nation" song.  
> 
> 
> 	>>...need
> 	>> to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
> 	>> understands
> 	>> house
> >> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this song
> 
> miragirl
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Andrew Lawson [SMTP:lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU]
> > Sent:	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 10:49 AM
> > To:	mira@wellsfargo.com; Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu;
> > sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > Subject:	RE: song i.d. please
> > 
> > At 09:45 AM 1/13/98 -0800, mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> > >what's up steve..
> > >
> > >the song is called "house music" and it's by some guy... eddie
> > >something-or-other.  the song has not yet been released but will be
> > >coming out in a few weeks.  it's in a test press right now and a few
> > djs
> > >have it (Carlos and David Harness it seems, in the city.)  i'll get
> > back
> > >to you on his last name, i always seem to forget it but i'm sure
> > you'll
> > >be seeing it all over in the next 3 weeks...k?
> > >
> > >also yes...imo..."the word is love" is still slamming in the
> > city...my
> > >personal fav right now is "show me" though.
> > >
> > >miragirl
> > >
> > 
> > The remix of house nation he is talking about was in the stores last
> > August... haven't seen it lately.  (Sorry... I can't remember the
> > artist or
> > label.
> > Andrew
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From:	Steven_Allas [SMTP:smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu]
> > >> Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 8:12 PM
> > >> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > >> Subject:	Re: song i.d. please
> > >> 
> > >> In-Reply-To:
> > >>
> > UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
> > >> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=groovinkim+40connectexpress+2Ecom+3B@apollo's
> > message
> > >> of 01-12-98 15:22
> > >> 
> > >> forgot to attach this, sorry...
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> >
> > >> >I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat.
> > nite...Hawaii
> > >> is a
> > >> few
> > >> >hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before I went
> > >> out...need
> > >> >to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
> > >> understands
> > >> house
> > >> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this
> > song
> > >> please
> > >> let
> > >> >me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the new
> > one
> > >> is
> > >> called
> > >> >"House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still
> > slammin'
> > >> around
> > >> the
> > >> >city?...want to hook my friends up on the east coast...thanks
> > >> y'all...peace...
> > >> >
> > >> >aloha,
> > >> >moki4u2c@hotmai.com
> > >> 
> > >
> > >
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 21:07:09 1998
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From: CheerioHN <CheerioHN@aol.com>
Message-ID: <532e659b.34bbd370@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:49:50 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Happy Kids weekend in review :o)
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HEY!
Welp, can we say big huge funky SNOW STORM!?!?! So i took off from here, it
took me 4½ hours(ugh!) to get to the east bay and then off we were, To my
major dissappointment Unkle noah went first and i missed hearin him :o(  But i
was lucky enough to catch him before he left(Happy TUUsday UnkL Noah!!) Talk
about a dope location!! Easy to get to, lots of room, perfect setup, no
smokin...which i liked, everynow an then the sweet smell of weed, or carlos'
nag champa would fill the air, i could breathe a lot easier :o) Carlos went
off, as usual, i doubt he could ever spin an unsatisfying set, and hes so cute
playin round behind the tables! But i had to pull myself away and hit up the
jungle down stairs, Honey B and her MC singer Ms. Angel tore the place up, she
got me dancin like no other!  Eliah after had the place rockin too! A friend
and i couldn't take the crowded Mars an MysterE room so we took off up stairs
to practice our breakdancin(heeheehee), but we fergot our helmets with handles
at home so we resorted to just dancin our lil hearts out, marty and ian kept
us groovin till the end!  Sheesh! what a good ass party! Im sorry to say i
didn't get to meet a whole lotta you but i did meet Ben and Mook and it was
supa dope to see Lara, shes one cool cat! Jeremy, i love gettin hugs from him,
it was nice to be bak!!! :o)  
No matter what the whole nite i couldn't stop smilin' and neither could all
the kids around!! it was awsome! 
Well now im back to the fresh 3FEET of snow that fell while i was there, some
kids are buildin jumps in my bak yard...i better go help :o)
I love you all thanks fer makin the pary even doper by bein there...i missed
you april!!!!
p  a    s      s         i             g                o
u                         t   .  .  .

JiL :o)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 21:13:11 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:15:47 -0800
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>, Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Toward better massives (was: Re: Promoter bashing)
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Dear Vlad,

        Hi again!  My responses are below...

>Hi Starchild... Man....You Wrote a whole lot ... I don't even know were to
>begin.  You just made so may good points.  After reading what you wrote,
>It gives
>me a good understanding of your impression of what a party is in your
>opinion.  I
>think that the biggest difference is that when I wrote what I did, I was coming
>from the perspective of a Massive event, and a purely business
>perspective.  But
>the majority of your comments seemed like they were reflective of a smaller and
>more UG party perspective.  This difference in reference makes me completely
>agree with what you wrote, when I evaluate it from your perspective.

        Thank you for your kind words.  I'm happy that I've communicated my
thoughts well.  Interesting what you say... are we like the blind men
feeling the elephant?

        Anyway, addressing the distinction you make between large
commercial parties and small non-commercial ones, I'll say this for
large-scale promoters:  A massive is by its nature much harder to put on
than a small underground event, and you have to take more care to produce a
good vibe.  I don't doubt it was easier when raving was new and the rave
hadn't become as much of a formula, but we can still do it.  And it's
definitely worth doing!  I love a good massive, they have been some of my
favorite events.

        Now I assume you've read my previous posts and know how I feel
about producing raves as "entertainment for a living," so I won't go into
that all over again.  But you also say that you and other promoters of
large events do what you do because you enjoy bringing people together for
a positive and memorable experience.

        If you ("you" being promoters of massives) strongly value this
aspect of what you do, and feel that without providing this aspect you
wouldn't be comfortable making money by throwing parties, then I see some
hope for you.  8)

        Kidding aside, I think by changing a few things, most at little or
no cost, one can greatly improve the vibe and reputation of large-scale
events.  More on this below...

>In my Opinion, There is this VERY large separation when it comes to throwing
>smaller parties for the fun and the music, compared to producing entertainment
>for a living.   I try as hard as I can to incorporate both aspects into my
>life,
>and my work.  But In this case, because The thread was regarding massive's... I
>was coming from a very industry viewpoint, and not so much a community
>viewpoint
>as you were.  That is one of the big difference between UG and
>Massives...(in my
>VERY generalized definition) is that UG's thrive on the community support, and
>Massive's utilize Industry resources.   Now this is in no way an exact
>definition
>by any means, but it is a prime factor in the obvious nature of the two
>distinct
>operations.    In any case, It would be hard to throw any party without both
>aspects.  But the biggest difference between community and industry, is that
>while community is public domain information... Industry information is
>proprietary.

       If events came clearly labeled as either "community" or "industry",
I think I would agree with this.  But as it stands, there is too much
overlap -- as you say, "it would be hard to throw any party without both
aspects."

        Because the rave community draws its sustanence from goodwill and
cooperation, rather than competition, marketing parties to ravers for a
profit is a direct drain on the psychic resources of the community.  Every
time this kind of drain occurs, the scene loses some positivity.

        I'll admit I'm not entirely satisfied with this answer myself --
consider it a working hypothesis until my reasoning catches up with my
intuition (as if!).  8)

>What was happening here with this thread is that the community was inquiring
>about industry information, that from a business perspective should not be the
>communities concern.    Below you brought up that I posted info About or
>Finances
>after the SPIRIT of giving party on Thanksgiving...  I did, and I did so,
>because
>the nature of that party was a Community Benefit for the Homeless, and I
>said IN
>ADVANCE that I would inform the Community about the amount of the donation
>after
>all figures were calculated, and true to my word I posted them.  But If someone
>would to ask me to post my financial record after an event... I would
>never even
>consider it.   I have always posted, and plan to continue to inform this
>community of any contribution that is made after our events, because I
>know that
>this community helped make that donation possible, but I will not justify it..
>because that is my business, and not the communities.  There is an old saying
>that goes something like this: "If you let everyone know your business...
>Eventually, you have no business of your own"  Well it's the same thing
>here....We all need to have our secrets.  It's what makes us individuals.   And
>in addition... If YOU were Nomad... and You were reading these angry and
>Hateful
>posts... would you want to give out financial information that can be
>forwarded,
>by any disgruntled raver to anywhere on the net????  Think about it???  I sure
>wouldn't.  There are a lot of issues involved here... and anything that is
>posted
>is something that can possibly be used against you.. just like this post... I
>doubt that everyone will read it with the understanding of where I was coming
>from when I wrote it... but that's the nature of this list.  It is
>something you
>learn to deal with... is having people misunderstand you by fitering out your
>perspective... and the meaning gets misinterperted... no matter how hard
>you may
>try.
>
>I love Raving, and I love organizing parties... not just because I have a
>vision
>to fulfill, but because I enjoy knowing that something that I do has the
>potential to bring people together, and possibly give them a very good and
>memorable experience that they may cherish for some time.  And If you ask any
>promoter... Nomad, Space Children, Cool world, Ghost tribe, Bagok... or
>any other
>promoter that has taken MUCH heat from this list... You will get a VERY similar
>answer.

        Vlad, what you say sounds very reasonable.  I would like to believe
it, yet... there are too many things I notice about too many parties that
just don't square with promoters having a primary objective of bringing
people together for a good experience.  Of course it hardly needs
mentioning that few people are going to *admit* to being primarily
motivated by money, power, or ego if asked, so one can only look at their
actions.

        Two ingredients under "actions" are key to producing good vibe,
imho, and these apply just as much to promoters doing events for a living
as to those doing it out of love for the scene:

                (1) honesty
                (2) friendliness

        Honesty (or lack of it) is communicated by the massive promoter in
many ways.  For starters, your flyers and voicemail messages should list
the cost of your event -- both pre-sale price and door price, if these
differ.  (One lesson I've learned from my years of raving is that if they
don't mention what the cover will be, you can expect it to be on the high
side.)

        If your location is permitted and you expect the event to go off
bust-free, let people know where it is, so they can better plan their
evening.  If you fear drawing unwanted attention, at least give a general
location, like the city or part of town.

        Then there's the obvious -- if someone isn't scheduled to play at
your event, for example, don't advertise that they'll be there, and if
you've made a deal with someone, try your best to honor it.

        Everyone has bad luck sometimes, and everyone makes mistakes.  If
it happens to you, be upfront about it and explain exactly what happened.
If it was something major, like a big act cancelling on you who many people
may have come to see, offer refunds.  Chances are your apology will be
well-received by people who appreciate good vibe, and may actually benefit
you in the long-run.

        Okay, what about friendliness?  Again, there's a lot one can do to
be friendly, and the good news is, most of it doesn't cost a dime.

        Flyer design says a lot, as does the tone of the person recording
your voice-mail message and their choice of words.  My advice would be to
seek beauty and creativity, perhaps try to evoke a smile.  If you design
your flyers and messages with the objective of impressing people with how
"cool" your party is going to be, as appears to be the case with many
flyers and messages, you've probably succeeded in making the party *less*
cool than it would have been otherwise due to the image you're projecting.


        Important, important, important: Make sure the security people at
your event are friendly and non-intrusive!  If the venue insists on
providing their own people, or you have to work with cops (heaven forbid),
talk to them beforehand and make sure you have people who are going to be
cool, or request different personnel.  Thuggish security is a huge
vibe-killer, and the safety benefits are dubious.  I've read about numerous
cases where people have gotten shot at nightclubs after altercations with
security.

          And I know some people will disagree with this, but I don't think
anything is accomplished by searching people at the door.  If you're trying
to confiscate weapons, well, give a person the benefit of the doubt --
maybe they're carrying because they have to walk home through a rough
neighborhood, not because they want to make trouble inside.  Drugs?  I'd
rather a person be allowed to bring whatever it is inside and take it
there, than have them imbibing before they arrive so that you have a bunch
of high people walking around (or worse, driving) on the street.  If you
are at a venue where you have to do a search for legal reasons, make it a
cursory one.

        Part of being friendly is trying to anticipate people's needs, and
attempting to meet on the spot those needs you haven't anticipated.  Having
an obvious place for people to go in an emergency, providing some kind of a
coat check (if you're going to charge extra for this, or if you're going to
sell water when there's no free water available, these things should be
revealed upfront under "costs", imho), doing periodic sound checks so
people won't ruin their hearing, having some earplugs available, etc.

        It won't take a bite out of your budget to greet people with a
smile and maybe a hug at the door.  Fresh fruit and bread in the morning
isn't free, but it's relatively inexpensive.

        It also costs nothing to have an opening and a closing ceremony.
Carefully choreographed ceremonies could be hard to pull off at a massive,
but there's still lots of possibilities.  Take the microphone and ask
everyone to reach out and and hold the hands of people nearby them for a
few moments of silence, for example.  Or instead of someone from the crew
speaking, pick some happy and energetic-looking ravers to come up and
briefly share their experiences of the evening.

        Finally, take some time to get feedback and appreciate the
temporary autonomy you've conjured up.  Walk around and ask people if
they're having a good time, explaining that you're the promoter and you
want to hear their ideas about the party.  Chances are, if you've done good
by them in the above areas, you will get the support and appreciation
you've been looking for, in oodles!

        Many ravers love to help out, given the chance.  If they're treated
with respect, and not simply as free labor, it will make them feel like
participants.  Rather than hiring people to do clean-up and figuring that
into what you charge at the door, ask for volunteers to stay after the
party.

        I would think that by putting the word out in advance, you can get
many services taken care of, or at least discounted, by barter (i.e. --
okay, you bring the sound system, I'll let in you and 10 of your friends
for free and give you free t-shirts).  Then you find a clothing vendor and
let them have a booth in exchange for 10 shirts or something.  The
possibilities are virtually endless...

        ...but I'll leave off for now.  I don't want you to get the idea
I'm trying to tell you how to run your parties or anything.  ;)

Much love,
                                <<< Starchild >>>

                                        8)

       <<< <<< Free vibe-consultation services and hugs on request! >>> >>>





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 21:28:36 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:56:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........))))))))))) (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.980113135034.8326B-100000@www.ina.com>
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:22:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, dhchung@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........))))))))))) (fwd)

	

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:32:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........)))))))))))

Jan. 17th                The Trance & Jungle Facotry



          Vertigo



										           
Thomas Trouble

			B.A.S.S. Cru

		     Stareyes
 

          Rinse



													Flux

                         and possibly others





       trip-chill room



		      speAkeR  "23"

Limited amount of pre-sales only at the TranceFactory)))))))))))))))))

call the TranceFactory at 510-704-9876

ps-just added Melanie of SF House Collective 
   Boomerang Fidget


pss-Dear Bass Cru, sorry about the misinformation, please email me the 
corrections, I have lost your original message to me.  This is Thomas' 
party, if you have any questions call him up.......510/704.9876


-marco

:-)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 21:38:24 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:40:42 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Subject: earplugs?
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Can someone tell me where to get those big bottles
of bright green earplugs. The ones that are rounded on
one end and come in a bottle of about 40 pair?
They are called super 31 i think.
I have heard vague locations like walgreens but need a specific
store(sf or berkeley) as i have checked several walgreens with no luck.

Thanks.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


Smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 21:53:14 1998
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	for <sfraves@hyperreal.org>; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:49:38 -0800 (PST)
From: mira@wellsfargo.com
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To: byroni@ccnet.com, mira@wellsfargo.com
Cc: lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU, Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: song i.d. please
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:55:58 -0800
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i'll post it as soon as i remeber the guys last name...sorry i'm such a
dunce but i'll give you the 411 as soon as i come to.

mira

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	*byroni* [SMTP:byroni@ccnet.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 12:24 PM
> To:	mira@wellsfargo.com
> Cc:	lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU; Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu;
> sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject:	RE: song i.d. please
> 
> 
> Frankie Nuckles pun this track at Nikita... I feel in love with it and
> needed it. If you can find out the producer of the same PLEASE post it
> peoples...
> 
> Byroni
> 
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Andrew...I'm actually talking about the song that he quoted (
> see
> > below) but didn't know the name of...not the "House Nation" song.  
> > 
> > 
> > 	>>...need
> > 	>> to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
> > 	>> understands
> > 	>> house
> > >> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know this
> song
> > 
> > miragirl
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:	Andrew Lawson [SMTP:lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU]
> > > Sent:	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 10:49 AM
> > > To:	mira@wellsfargo.com; Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu;
> > > sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > > Subject:	RE: song i.d. please
> > > 
> > > At 09:45 AM 1/13/98 -0800, mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> > > >what's up steve..
> > > >
> > > >the song is called "house music" and it's by some guy... eddie
> > > >something-or-other.  the song has not yet been released but will
> be
> > > >coming out in a few weeks.  it's in a test press right now and a
> few
> > > djs
> > > >have it (Carlos and David Harness it seems, in the city.)  i'll
> get
> > > back
> > > >to you on his last name, i always seem to forget it but i'm sure
> > > you'll
> > > >be seeing it all over in the next 3 weeks...k?
> > > >
> > > >also yes...imo..."the word is love" is still slamming in the
> > > city...my
> > > >personal fav right now is "show me" though.
> > > >
> > > >miragirl
> > > >
> > > 
> > > The remix of house nation he is talking about was in the stores
> last
> > > August... haven't seen it lately.  (Sorry... I can't remember the
> > > artist or
> > > label.
> > > Andrew
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From:	Steven_Allas [SMTP:smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu]
> > > >> Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 8:12 PM
> > > >> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > > >> Subject:	Re: song i.d. please
> > > >> 
> > > >> In-Reply-To:
> > > >>
> > >
> UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
> > > >> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=groovinkim+40connectexpress+2Ecom+3B@apollo's
> > > message
> > > >> of 01-12-98 15:22
> > > >> 
> > > >> forgot to attach this, sorry...
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> >
> > > >> >I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat.
> > > nite...Hawaii
> > > >> is a
> > > >> few
> > > >> >hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before I
> went
> > > >> out...need
> > > >> >to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
> > > >> understands
> > > >> house
> > > >> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know
> this
> > > song
> > > >> please
> > > >> let
> > > >> >me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove", the
> new
> > > one
> > > >> is
> > > >> called
> > > >> >"House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still
> > > slammin'
> > > >> around
> > > >> the
> > > >> >city?...want to hook my friends up on the east coast...thanks
> > > >> y'all...peace...
> > > >> >
> > > >> >aloha,
> > > >> >moki4u2c@hotmai.com
> > > >> 
> > > >
> > > >
> > 
> 
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> 
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
> 			-me

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 21:55:32 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:48:03 -0800 (PST)
From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: yo stalie
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Cc: Giles Bowkett <giles@bowkett.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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like I was trying to say yesterday
You can't walk into a group bust everyones balls and 
not expect some backlash
I mean, hey maybe were just being sarcastic back-right?
you give- you get capishe?
ye shall reap what ye shall sow
If you cant take it don't dish it out
If you can't stand the heat
And many other timeless quotes on the subject.



---Giles Bowkett <giles@bowkett.com> wrote:
>
> >Hey guys..
> >
> >I kind of know freshie and some of the "12b" posse
> >and they are pretty kewl. They are just from NYC can
> >you blame them?? Home of Keoki need I say more?
> >hehehe naw but for reals he is a nice guy don't
flame
> >him to hard.
> >
> >Hi phressssiiieeee
> 
>   Hiya Freshie. I'm from Chicago, and I can
identify with a shit-talking
> city boy. Just so you know: SF is kind of a weird
place. It's very hip but
> at the same time it's kind of provincial. People
don't always seem to
> understand sarcasm or attitude here.
>   (PS - you probably don't really want to check out
the Mother Lode. It's
> for folks with extremely specific tastes.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                                                    
         w
>                                                    
         w
>                                                    
         w
>   / // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //
//    b         \\ \
>    // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //
//     o          \\
>   // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //
//      w           \\
>   / // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // //
      k            \
>   \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\
      e            /
>   \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\
\\      t           //
>    \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\
\\     t          //
>   \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ \\
\\    c         // /
>                                                    
         o
>                                                    
         m
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 22:03:57 1998
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From: mira@wellsfargo.com
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To: mira@wellsfargo.com, byroni@ccnet.com, Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
Cc: lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: song i.d. please
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:06:41 -0800
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wooohooooo...i remembered...sorry to keep you all in suspense...the
"house music" song that you guys are wondering about is by a guy named
eddie amador.  i do not know what label it's on cuz i've only heard it
on a test press.  it'll be hitting the stores in a few weeks my sources
say, so be watching out for it cuz it's gonna be GONE!

mira

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	mira@wellsfargo.com [SMTP:mira@wellsfargo.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 1:56 PM
> To:	byroni@ccnet.com; mira@wellsfargo.com
> Cc:	lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU; Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu;
> sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject:	RE: song i.d. please
>=20
> i'll post it as soon as i remeber the guys last name...sorry i'm such
> a
> dunce but i'll give you the 411 as soon as i come to.
>=20
> mira
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	*byroni* [SMTP:byroni@ccnet.com]
> > Sent:	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 12:24 PM
> > To:	mira@wellsfargo.com
> > Cc:	lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU; Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu;
> > sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > Subject:	RE: song i.d. please
> >=20
> >=20
> > Frankie Nuckles pun this track at Nikita... I feel in love with it
> and
> > needed it. If you can find out the producer of the same PLEASE post
> it
> > peoples...
> >=20
> > Byroni
> >=20
> > On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> >=20
> > > Thanks Andrew...I'm actually talking about the song that he =
quoted
> (
> > see
> > > below) but didn't know the name of...not the "House Nation" song.
>=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > 	>>...need
> > > 	>> to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
> > > 	>> understands
> > > 	>> house
> > > >> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know
> this
> > song
> > >=20
> > > miragirl
> > >=20
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From:	Andrew Lawson [SMTP:lawson@nature.Berkeley.EDU]
> > > > Sent:	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 10:49 AM
> > > > To:	mira@wellsfargo.com; Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu;
> > > > sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > > > Subject:	RE: song i.d. please
> > > >=20
> > > > At 09:45 AM 1/13/98 -0800, mira@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> > > > >what's up steve..
> > > > >
> > > > >the song is called "house music" and it's by some guy... eddie
> > > > >something-or-other.  the song has not yet been released but
> will
> > be
> > > > >coming out in a few weeks.  it's in a test press right now and
> a
> > few
> > > > djs
> > > > >have it (Carlos and David Harness it seems, in the city.)  =
i'll
> > get
> > > > back
> > > > >to you on his last name, i always seem to forget it but i'm
> sure
> > > > you'll
> > > > >be seeing it all over in the next 3 weeks...k?
> > > > >
> > > > >also yes...imo..."the word is love" is still slamming in the
> > > > city...my
> > > > >personal fav right now is "show me" though.
> > > > >
> > > > >miragirl
> > > > >
> > > >=20
> > > > The remix of house nation he is talking about was in the stores
> > last
> > > > August... haven't seen it lately.  (Sorry... I can't remember
> the
> > > > artist or
> > > > label.
> > > > Andrew
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From:	Steven_Allas
> [SMTP:smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu]
> > > > >> Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 8:12 PM
> > > > >> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> > > > >> Subject:	Re: song i.d. please
> > > > >>=20
> > > > >> In-Reply-To:
> > > > >>
> > > >
> >
> =
UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=3DUS+3Ba=3D+20+3Bp=3DApollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=3DCorpE=
xchGtw
> > > > >> =
y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=3Dgroovinkim+40connectexpress+2Ecom+3B@apollo's
> > > > message
> > > > >> of 01-12-98 15:22
> > > > >>=20
> > > > >> forgot to attach this, sorry...
> > > > >>=20
> > > > >>=20
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >I was plugged in on the netcast from Release this Sat.
> > > > nite...Hawaii
> > > > >> is a
> > > > >> few
> > > > >> >hours behind so I went on a groovalicious funky ride before
> I
> > went
> > > > >> out...need
> > > > >> >to know the 411 on the house song that goes, "not everyone
> > > > >> understands
> > > > >> house
> > > > >> >music..it's a spiritual thing, a soul thing..."if you know
> > this
> > > > song
> > > > >> please
> > > > >> let
> > > > >> >me know...also, the remix of "One Nation Under A Groove",
> the
> > new
> > > > one
> > > > >> is
> > > > >> called
> > > > >> >"House Nation..."and is that song "The Word is Love" still
> > > > slammin'
> > > > >> around
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> >city?...want to hook my friends up on the east
> coast...thanks
> > > > >> y'all...peace...
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >aloha,
> > > > >> >moki4u2c@hotmai.com
> > > > >>=20
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> > or...
> > another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> >=20
> >=20
> > (byroni)
> > TheSPACEcowboy
> >=20
> > "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
> > 			-me

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 22:06:33 1998
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To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: miragirl RE: song i.d. please
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the "show me" song is by urban soul.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Steven_Allas [SMTP:smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu]
> Sent:	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 12:17 PM
> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject:	Re: miragirl RE: song i.d. please
> 
> In-Reply-To:
> UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=lucke+40rocketmail+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of
> 01-13-98 11:58
> 
> not sure who the singer is...miragirl knows the info...
> 
> aloha,
> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
> 
> 
> ---- Included Message ----
> 
> Received: 01-13-98 12:55                         Sent: 01-13-98 11:58 
> From:
> UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=lucke+40rocketmail+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu
> To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu 
> Subject: Re: miragirl RE: song i.d. please
> Reply-To:
> UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=lucke+40rocketmail+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu
> Return-Path:
> <IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3B
> dda+3ASMTP=lucke+40rocketmail+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu>
> Mime-Version:  1.0
> Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> Lina Santiago does a version is that the one your
> speaking of? 
> 
> LL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---Steven_Allas <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu> wrote:
> >
> > In-Reply-To:
> UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtw
> y+3Bdda+3ASMTP=mira+40wellsfargo+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu's
> message of 01-13-98 09:45
> > 
> > who does that song "show me"?...thanks...
> > 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 22:26:59 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:30:42 -0800 (PST)
From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: so you met my friend staley freshie 
To: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
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yeas but were I to actually give him the Bronx cheer-
I 
would not suddenly be wounded if he were to send me
one back, and I would expect no one to defend me for
my actions- that's all I dont hate freshie.  In fact,
I must congradulate him on getting us fired up on
another topic besides who's a bad promoter/ who's a
good promoter BSI(blatant Self Interest) threads that
have been going around as of late.

PJFlaming





---Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com> wrote:
>
> At 2:51 PM -0800 1/12/98, pj fuzzy wrote:
> >I say flame freshie till he's burnt to a crisp
> >you get what you give
> >I know freshie being the smart, hip, New Yorker
would
> >feel amiss if he didn't get the bronx cheer for his
> >post.
> >
> >pjf
> 
> well sure!  he'll just have to make sure to take
you're advice and "give
> what he got" - and aim a "bronx cheer" somewhere in
your near vicinity...
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> "If you wish to make a contract with hell...you
must first decide whom
> you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb
Satan in person, when
> an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."
> 
> 		--from The History of Magic
> 
> do-reeeeee
> http://dori.space
> http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 22:27:04 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:30:37 -0800 (PST)
From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: so you met my friend staley freshie 
To: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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yeas but were I to actually give him the Bronx cheer-
I 
would not suddenly be wounded if he were to send me
one back, and I would expect no one to defend me for
my actions- that's all I dont hate freshie.  In fact,
I must congradulate him on getting us fired up on
another topic besides who's a bad promoter/ who's a
good promoter BSI(blatant Self Interest) threads that
have been going around as of late.

PJFlaming





---Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com> wrote:
>
> At 2:51 PM -0800 1/12/98, pj fuzzy wrote:
> >I say flame freshie till he's burnt to a crisp
> >you get what you give
> >I know freshie being the smart, hip, New Yorker
would
> >feel amiss if he didn't get the bronx cheer for his
> >post.
> >
> >pjf
> 
> well sure!  he'll just have to make sure to take
you're advice and "give
> what he got" - and aim a "bronx cheer" somewhere in
your near vicinity...
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> "If you wish to make a contract with hell...you
must first decide whom
> you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb
Satan in person, when
> an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."
> 
> 		--from The History of Magic
> 
> do-reeeeee
> http://dori.space
> http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 22:28:35 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: miragirl RE: song i.d. please
Cc: mira@wellsfargo.com
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
Original-To: UNIX:sfraves@hyperreal.org
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=mira+40wellsfargo+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of 01-13-98 14:06

so who's the artist that does "show me"?...do tell...

aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 22:49:50 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4cb38a79.34bbed1e@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:39:21 EST
To: deepfog@hooked.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: How the name Deepfog came into being?
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Damn, Deepfog, your names just fun to say!!!

DEEEEEEP FOOOOOOOOOOG

so, I guess I can't reach you at 1-800-FARANON anymore, huh ;)
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 22:52:30 1998
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From: "brian j tang" <fafol@royalblueny.com>
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To: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
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Subject: Re: so you met my friend staley freshie 
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> yeas but were I to actually give him the Bronx cheer-
> I 
> would not suddenly be wounded if he were to send me
> one back, and I would expect no one to defend me for
> my actions- that's all I dont hate freshie.  

people often hate me cause I'm beautiful. ;)

glad to see you can overcome those stereotypes.  *big fat saucy 
wink*

seriously, good to see that most people saw humour in my last post.  
And believe me, not everyone out in NYC and surrounding areas, has 
the same sense of humour.  nyc-raves is particularily known for 
boorish and uptight people.  But I gotta love their list 
administrators, will and john.

And thanks to everyone for your suggestions.

I most definitely want to go to Stompy.  Hope my product 
installation goes really bad, and I can stay for that long.  I'll 
most likely go to Static to meet up with Macadio.  Nikita @ 1015 does 
sound promising.  Honestly trannie bars are always good for a laugh, 
so I think I will see what is going on at Mother Lode.

And Bondage a Go Go.  I mean is this cheesy or anything??  I mean I 
am into the campy aspect of S&M.  It's not like if I miss my monthly 
session with the dominatrix, that I'll go into convulsions or 
anything.  It's just the "ladies and trannies handcuffed to the bar, 
drink for free before 11pm" makes it sound like it's not all it could 
be.

The rest of the time I think I'll be checking out dirty little hovels 
with camper inspecting the local glory-holes.

So look for me.

"references provided upon request"

> In fact,
> I must congradulate him on getting us fired up on
> another topic besides who's a bad promoter/ who's a
> good promoter BSI(blatant Self Interest) threads that
> have been going around as of late.
> 
> PJFlaming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com> wrote:
> >
> > At 2:51 PM -0800 1/12/98, pj fuzzy wrote:
> > >I say flame freshie till he's burnt to a crisp
> > >you get what you give
> > >I know freshie being the smart, hip, New Yorker
> would
> > >feel amiss if he didn't get the bronx cheer for his
> > >post.
> > >
> > >pjf
> > 
> > well sure!  he'll just have to make sure to take
> you're advice and "give
> > what he got" - and aim a "bronx cheer" somewhere in
> your near vicinity...
> > 
> > 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 22:53:34 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:54:08 -0800
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I may be new but the last time I checked this was supposed to be a
discussion group about raves and the music and culture and community that
stem from such events.

 I think discussing sensitive topics such as religion on a forum so diverse
as this is not only dangerous, easily turning friends into enemies, but also
strays from the purpose and goals we are trying to achieve here, whatever
they are they don't involve religion in any way (except for those of you
that look at raving as your religion). Comments that tear down and insult
different religions are hurtful and maddening. Many people hold their
beliefs very sacred, and when somebody goes around and trashes those
beliefs, it isn't right. In the future it would probably be a good idea that
if you want to discuss religion either take it off the list and onto
personal email, or a religious chat room. Using religious examples to make
your point is just dangerous and should be avoided.

How would you like it if I started using this list to fill up your mailbox
with religious messages trying to convert everybody to my way of thinking.
Reguardless of whether my way of thinking is right or wrong everybody has
the right to believe what they want. My beliefs do not make me better than
anyone and are totally about love, but that does not give me the right to
beat somebody over head with those beliefs like a baseball bat.

So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST

THANX,

MooK <><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:05:11 1998
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Subject: -->> ACID BREAKS!! <<-- short review
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 15:05:09 -0000
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From: * mercury * <ravergirl@liquidmercury.com>
To: "Mr nStuff" <stuff@hooked.net>, "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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This party KICKED ASS!!!

Oh my god!! The breaks were phatter than ever (except for Carlos :(  )
The vibe was insane!!  I haven't danced so much or so hard for long time. 
 
I was very impressed with the job Ghost and Jake did with the set up and 
much props on the VIRGIN location (though my Jinco's will never be clean 
again).  

Mr. nStuff is right...they are just ravers living out there breakbeat
raver dreams...you should have seen/talked to Ghost that night.  He was
like a kid on Christmas...and boy did set show it!!! (Best set he ever
did)

-------------------------------------------------------->>  mercury

>First off I would like to say..Hi everybody! 
> And I'm sorry I turned out so weird.  =]:. .
>
> Ghost Tribe did a great job on the party. The lights were in the right
>place, the banners, the water booth, bathrooms just where they should
>be..They're not out to steal your backpacks! The "G-HOST" tribe appears to
>me to be, just a bunch of ravErs living out their dreams.. Positive /
>Normal human behavior.  =]..
>
>  I feel I could of helped out on the sound staging alittle bit. It seems
>like with that venue, it is crucial to have your rooms facing back to back.
>The Acid Breaks room was bleeding into the Jungle room enough to throw you
>off rhythm. Although FLUX found a way to filter out distractions. I think
>back to back across the building, leaving a muffled ear plug sounding large
>hallway heading towards the bathrooms, main sound stage facing the DJ
>trapped in the corner facing the speakers. Woh.. That woulda been cool..
>
> Personal opinions on the Acid Break room.. Too slow.. Carlos had trouble
>speeding his set up! Everyone else seemed to be slowing it down trying to
>keep a steady m-e-l-l-o-w vibe (atmosphere) the whole night. I need
>stimulants! I completely run on the energy of music (in this case music).
> It's so real...the music actually fills my body with carbs or something. I
>can go as long as the fuel lasts. And the fuel coming from the main room
>was not giving me any power AT ALL.. I was hoping I would get up to that
>point where I can start experimenting with new motions. The music in the
>main room left me unattached. I couldn't hop on that track last
>night.
>
> It's totally phenomenal. I truly do feel healthier when the music has
>more energy..
> Lately I have been spoiling myself with that high-energy house stuff at
>Nikita Friday nights. And being able to grip a cold beer on the dance
>floor don't hurt either - my mind is wondering...you with me?
>  I just was not hip to that frequency last night. Perhaps if I were able
>to relax with one of thoughs cold beers in my hand while I "PARTIED" my
>way!!
> Is that how slow Acid Break is suppose to be? I can move that slowly with
>the right motivation. Dancing that slow can infact be stimulating in the
>right mind frame. Beer! Get a couple beers in me I will drop down to that
>speed. I could of effortlessly turned that slow energy into something
>perhaps...explicit. If I were to have been feeling allitle more LOOSE 
>perhaps!
> Am I talking to much?
> 
> Smooth.. Anyone find that word to be uncomfortable? I used that word once
>to compliment a guy on his breaks(break dancing). Dood thought I was either
>hitting on him or being sarcastic, either way his response made me feel
>some what depressed.
> Strange to, that was at what couldn't of been more than my fourth ravE. No
>one even thinks they know me at this point in time. Dancing to tekno
>took effort back then, I had not yet reached that point where you actually
>surf the music. Infact it was the following ravE that I found out you can
>stole-away on that musical journey  (tekno-ly speaking) 
>
> Hmmm.. I wonder...
> Well it's just that my parents were always on valiums when I was growing
>up.. Beer just calms my nerves.. You ever heard that song that goes, "the
>freaks come out at night"? Well that's me. I completely change at night. I
>don't actually have knowledge into the true lyrics of the song.. 
>  I think I should be allowed to drink beer at ravEs. . Think of it like a
>translator, to able me to intermingle within a large scale social
>environment. Yea.. }:\.. It's MY party though.  It's like I am not allowed 
>to enjoy
>my party with the way I want to. Stimulants! Stimulants!
>
>  It's just amazing at times. I think most people would be amazed at the
>amount of vibe I can pick up. Vibe to me goes beyond some feeling in a
>room. It's everything.. It truly is an energy form. And it pours out from our
>eyes like guiding lasers.. You can feel the energy glowing around everyone,
>pushing against one another. The whole elbow room thing applies somewhere..
>  When I goto a ravE. I just feel like this vibe magnet.. I take in
>uncontrollable amounts of vibe. No bullshit, I have had many hours handed
>down to me to proove these theories.
> And one explanation I can give for my weirdness. I can't seem to stop myself
>from blocking vibes. If I sense vibes that can potentially cause an over 
>load of
>50/50 (good/bad) vibes and even impressions. And without having a grip on it,
>I woos out and take the easy way out. STOP VIBE IN IT"S TRACKS! Something
>I need to reverse.......no.......because it makes me uncomfertable when I 
>close up
>like that.
>  I close up for what seems like no reason at times. And it happens so 
>fast. Yep.
>      Weird.. That sense of vibe I get though....I feel it. Not everywhere..
> People getting pissed at me? What about me? It's not like I act that way
> everywhere, all the time, around everybody!
> But like knowing is half the battle right? Still with me?
>
> I'm usually a rather private person.. You ravErs sure gottah way at poking
>into shit though.. You make up possibilities and wait for reaction. Like
>having people of different life stiles walk by me to see which one
>stimulates me the most?? First time I actually witnessed this was Mega
>Buzz, someone premeditatedly directed a cast of members to walk past me one
>after the other, to see which one I would "check out" more....Don't you
>think me knowing about this might change my reaction to it for one? =]:.. 
>  It's just funny.. I am weird to everyone, that makes me kind of special I
>think. haha..
>
>Back to the MUSIC.
> It infact does create vibe. It just gives me that extra power I thrive on
>the dance floor and it is as real as vitamin C. I would have to assume it
>gives all of us similar powers.. 
>
> And coming to to a screeching halt.
>Somewhere up there I beleive you will find in depth reports on Acid Breaks. 
>Good luck finding them.
>
>
>Acid Breaks  *** three stars for Peace, Unity, and Respect..
> The party (rave) was well under control, everything by the book.
>
> And last but not least. The VIBE.. From my perspective?  =]:..
>I don't want to say cliques, because it wasn't like that to me. Seemed more
>like peacefull congregations. Everyone appeared to be getting along. A great
>mix of people dealing with differences, except for me.
>
> No one can deal with MY differences though. I do not feel I was punished
>with bad vibes or anything but, there were alot of pretty pissed off women
>floating around the place. Spite and alot of "pressure" vibes floating my 
>direction,
>to be expected. I just can't seem to respond to pressure in a submisfull 
>fasion.
> Asking might be a better approach, perhaps give it a try.. I don't lie...
>
>
> So much for small talk.
>  Jeff nStuff
>
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:11:20 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ba7b7501.34bbf0b7@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:54:45 EST
To: groovinkim@connectexpress.com, DjMarq@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  luunatik@192.122.209.42
Subject: Re: smoking was:Re: I am one happy kid!
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I just have to laugh.  Anyone else recall the last smoking/happy kids thread??
HAHAHA, HEEHEEHEE.
Sorry, the drugs have finally gotten to me :)
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:16:15 1998
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To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
CC: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Raver Parade
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Commence rambling on pointlessly::
If this idea was going to work anywhere in th USofA it would almost have to be
here in the squishy innards of the heart of the chemical culture. What other
metropolis could even think of harboring such an event. Our culture could only
benefit from mass propogation of impartial, unbiased(I'm thinking excerpts of
Andrew Weil's From Chocolate to Morphine) information about all the substances
we consume. We are already a culture that is substance dependant, whether it be
coffe, chocolate, crank, or codine. We already love drugs. If we get sick we
pop down a little psudoephadrine or chlororphenamarine(Yes my spelling sucks)
to take us away from the misery. If we're tired try a cup o' Joe. Hungry have
some caffine to supress your appetite. TO fat, take some speed to help you lose
the weight(and keep it off).
Depressed well just reworkt that old brain chemestry with the amazing wonder
drug Prozac. Yes indeed. In our own subtle ways we already encourage our kids
to enjoy thier God given rights to be addicted to as many legal drugs as the
want.
Enter information.
Enter parade.
Enter floats.
Enter good vibes.
Enter objectivity.
Present both sides. Lets face it, many substances that are fun may not be as
benificial to your health as a nice juicy peach. Many substances that are
feared by the masses may be relatively inocuous. Many of these substances are
definately catalysts for another way of living.
I am not the same person I was before I started doing psycadelics.
If  for no other reason than my body's cells hve died and been replaced with
newer ones. My chemistry has been altered.
Rarmble Ramble Ramble
It's too late in the work day to worry about making sense.
A parade would be frabjoyous, sureal, informational, and above all fun.

Why not a midnight parade through the streets of San Francisco. A sort of after
hours "Critical Dance" to steal the streets and use them for dancing.

kbOOM

Paul Hayden wrote:

> Yeah I get what you're saying, but i mean, we don't hand out pamphlets
> to kids! I mean like adults & teenagers. People are gonna do drugs
> either way. It's best that they do them safley than unsafley. That's the
> idea behind that "Just say KNOW" campaign that I've been seeing drug
> pamphlets from at all the parties latley.
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
>
> lara at vibe.org wrote:
> >
> > this is a cute idea in an ideal world
> > but do we REALLY want to hand out drug information to people omnn the
> > streets?
> > little kids are gonna love the colorful floats and all the candyravers...
> > if they're handed a poamphlet on drugs..
> > well anyway
> > you get my idea.
> > xo
> > lara
> >
> > On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Everyone!! I got a real neat idea. How about we work something out
> > > with the city of San Francisco to do a raver parade.
> > > We get floats with DJs and soud systems on them spinning records.
> > > We get everyone dressed up or just showing up and all of us walk down
> > > the streets giving away candy, necklaces, and drug information.
> > > We pass out flyers with our mission statemnts on them and saying what a
> > > rave is all about.
> > > What do you people think???
> > >
> > > Love,
> > > Paul*E*Wog
> > >




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:18:48 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:18:39 -0800
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Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
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MooK said. . .
>I may be new but the last time I checked this was supposed to be a
>discussion group about raves and the music and culture and community that
>stem from such events.
> . . . .
>So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST

I feel that religion is very intimately related to rave culture and
community.  Many people feel that raving fulfills a need for religion in
many people.  Other people feel that the views of traditional religions are
antithetical to the values ravers endorse.  Personally, I feel almost every
issue is/can be related to raves, rave music, rave culture, or rave
community in some way.  Everyone has the right to believe what they want,
but we also all have the right to discuss why we have rejected other
beliefs.  As long as we make an effort not to purposely and gratuitously
piss off others on the list, there is no reason why we can't have
productive discussions about controversial topics on this list.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:22:57 1998
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It's so funny how people can look past the true meaning of things. The
word RELIGION was used... and my OPINION of people who follow religion
BLINDLY was used. Nothing more. People freak out too easily. RELAX.

I will refrain from speaking of topics of much life changing
significance.... am I really affending you or am I making you question 
something you are uncomfortable questioning? Because your faith isn't
that strong... and mommy and daddy can't answer the questions
themselves.... "Just believe in the bible son... it's right".... uuuh ok.

Byroni

ps. Refrain from posting about RELIGION unless raving is your religion???
I clearly stated that it is a religion for me and many others. I simply
spoke my mind about sheep and people get upset instead of using
constructive critism... which is funto hear and feedback.... (private
e-mail??? anyone)

I need to get a majordomo server running to start a SPIRITUAL RAVER
list.... hmmm..

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Mook wrote:

> I may be new but the last time I checked this was supposed to be a
> discussion group about raves and the music and culture and community that
> stem from such events.
> 
>  I think discussing sensitive topics such as religion on a forum so diverse
> as this is not only dangerous, easily turning friends into enemies, but also
> strays from the purpose and goals we are trying to achieve here, whatever
> they are they don't involve religion in any way (except for those of you
> that look at raving as your religion). Comments that tear down and insult
> different religions are hurtful and maddening. Many people hold their
> beliefs very sacred, and when somebody goes around and trashes those
> beliefs, it isn't right. In the future it would probably be a good idea that
> if you want to discuss religion either take it off the list and onto
> personal email, or a religious chat room. Using religious examples to make
> your point is just dangerous and should be avoided.
> 
> How would you like it if I started using this list to fill up your mailbox
> with religious messages trying to convert everybody to my way of thinking.
> Reguardless of whether my way of thinking is right or wrong everybody has
> the right to believe what they want. My beliefs do not make me better than
> anyone and are totally about love, but that does not give me the right to
> beat somebody over head with those beliefs like a baseball bat.
> 
> So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST
> 
> THANX,
> 
> MooK <><
> 
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:24:11 1998
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At 02:54 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
<snipity>
> I think discussing sensitive topics such as religion on a forum so diverse
*****
i may have missed something... i didn't hear any harpings regarding
religious preferances [besides byroni's rave as his religion].

i think the discussion stems from the rave scene having been said to be
analogous with religion.

so, then, the issue is: raving=religion?  

IMHO: not quite that organized, nor are we worshiping any god.  you'll
find, that in every organized religion, there is a figurehead, supernatural
power, or powers that control destiny.  to this/these the follower must
have faith, obedience, and give due honor.

we just like the music. and gather about it, cuz it's fun.  oh, and plus,
we like to look at neat colors 'n stuff, so we decorate ourselves and our
environment.

i think that raving, and religion are quite different.  enough so that they
cannot be compared.

what say you?

peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:28:37 1998
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Perhaps then we should define the word RAVE.  What makes a rave a rave.
The music. The people. The vibe. The location. The promoter. The cover fee. I
find it hard to reconcile calling any event that you have to pay money for a TAZ.
By Hakim Bey's definition of TAZ it seems a little absurd to put forth the
argument that  an event designed to generate revenue, designed to screw you out
of 30 dollars, is a Zone of Escape from the real world and all of  its troubles.
Which is not to say that it couldn't be. It's just not implicitly so by
association of music, peopl, culture etc.

So anyhow. What is a rave. Does such a creature exist? Or has it been usurped by
our Culture of Appropriation. Marked to. Accessorized. Packaged and sold to an
eager public.

kbOOM


Paul Hayden wrote:

> I would just like to say that the comment below is total bull shit.
> Raves are a Temporary Autonomous Zone. To some, raves go far damn deeper
> that fun. To many they are a way of life. To many they are religion and
> spirituality. To many they are the only thing that keep them from
> committing suicide. For some, that is the only thing that keeps them
> going in an un-fair and cruel world. As a wise friend once said: The
> rave never ends. There is just a really long pause until it starts up
> again. I don't consider a rave loud or noisy either. I consider it full
> of life and energy that is lacking in daily reality.
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
> >
> > Raves aren't an escape from our chaotic culture... they are a reflection of
> > today's culture.  If you want an escape.. go camping in the mountains, and
> > commune with nature.  Don't go to a loud, and noisy party or club were
> > people are just a sample group of today's youth, music, and dance culture.
> > Raves and clubs are for fun, for dancing,  and making friends... but they
> > are not and escape from today's reality... they are today's reality.
> > Keep it Real.    Vlad




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:30:48 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:23:50 -0700
Subject: BSP-all those that goth
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This goes out to all those that like to go to goth clubs.  I am sure that
most people are familiar with Radericks's Chamber at the X on tuesday
nights well this tuesday it will be at the Sound Factory and if it does
well will continue to be there.

Instead of being Roderick's Chamber at the X, it is House of Usher at the
Sound Factory.  Tuesday night, doors at 9 (I believe) ...

See, it's like this:  Peter, Shawni, and X used to promote House of
Usher,
which was the main goth club in SF.  Then Peter split off to do other
things (A Winter Gone By, Europa, Cyberden), and Shawni and X eventually
opened Roderick's Chamber.  Now they're contemplating getting back
together
to do Usher ... for now it's a "Roderick's Chamber and the Cyberden
present:" sort of thing, but if it goes well they'll do it instead of
Roderick's, and at the new location (Sound Factory, 1st & Howard, across
the street and 1/2 block down from the Maritime Hall).

I won't be there this tuesday considering I am way out in freezing
Colorado right now, but I sure will be there next week.

if things go well and they stay at the new location there will be an
experimental kind of chill area on the top floor in the near future


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:31:38 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: brian j tang <fafol@royalblueny.com>
cc: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: so you met my friend staley freshie 
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, brian j tang wrote:

> And Bondage a Go Go.  I mean is this cheesy or anything??  

Yes. It is horrible. It used to be good. Now it mostly consists of a bunch
of 40-something voyeurs and really crappy music. Oh, did I mention the
charming security? 

While not really S&M, if you are looking for something on the darker side
of life, try Roderick's Chamber on Tuesday Nights @ 715 Harrison.

					Black Adder



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:35:18 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:19:26 EST
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In a message dated 98-01-13 16:39:42 EST, you write:

<< Can someone tell me where to get those big bottles
 of bright green earplugs. The ones that are rounded on
 one end and come in a bottle of about 40 pair?
 They are called super 31 i think.
 I have heard vague locations like walgreens but need a specific
 store(sf or berkeley) as i have checked several walgreens with no luck. >>

IF you can't find them, it's good to invest in a custom pair.  FOr those of
you that haven't seen them, they're made custom fit to your ear, which stops
more dangerous noise from entering, and is a heckof a lot comfier.  They're
fun, too!! Mine are color coded (swirls of flourescent pink, orange, yellow on
the right and flourescent, blue, green, purple on the left) so I can tell them
apart under the blacklights.  They also come on this nifty jelly necklace so
when you're not wearing them you can hang them around your neck.  Don't forget
to protect your hearing and have it checked once in a while to stop problems
before they start!! Tinnitus is not a fun thing, people!!

       hugs n'stuff,
               trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:36:38 1998
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From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
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Subject: Okay but please be careful
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:37:22 -0800
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I have recieved a ton of resposes so I am going to post my own response:
Maybe I went over board in asking people not to talk about religion at all.
I just know that some, again I say some, of the statements that have been
made in the past couple of weeks were hurtful. IMHO I don't think flaming is
productive, as was suggested to me. So Iwanted to avoid hurtful statements
in the future. I in NOO WAY was intending censorship or restriction of
freedom of speech just moving such topics to a forum designed for these
topics. I apologize for making a statement that sounded like that. I was not
resonding to byroni's statements I did that privately. I know people have
had bad experiences with the church and awesome experiences with the church.
To me raving is putting aside religions, colors, and any thing else that
gets in the way of communicating and sharing something we all have in
common- phat grooves and dancing our butts off.

As I write this and more mails and posts come in I realized I opened up the
wrong can o' worms. Talk about what you want Forgive me for being a
presumptuous jerk. I just don't like people stereo typing others and whether
you want to believe it or not relgions and religious beliefs are easliy
stereo typed and often are.

That was my point. Sorry to waste your time.

MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:40:01 1998
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Just curious about the inconsistency.


>
>
> I hate PLUR.

So why sign your letter???

> PLUR,
>
> Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
>
> freshie
> Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
> http://silly.com/~tang




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:44:22 1998
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Mook wrote:

>  I think discussing sensitive topics such as religion on a forum so diverse
> as this is not only dangerous, easily turning friends into enemies, but also
> strays from the purpose and goals we are trying to achieve here, whatever
> they are they don't involve religion in any way (except for those of you
> that look at raving as your religion). 

Discussing *ANYTHING* on this list can be "dangerous." 

Please give us a list of what we can and can't talk about and I will be
happy to totally ignore it. 

> How would you like it if I started using this list to fill up your mailbox
> with religious messages trying to convert everybody to my way of thinking.

I imagine that I would view you as one of the millions of slightly
unstable people in this world that managed to get an email address, and
offer you an honored place in my mail filters.

> So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST

You know, I see comments like this as well as the one from Greg asking
people to take their discussions to private mail, and I have to ask, what
the hell do you people want? Do you want a totally sanitized world where
no one can speak their mind for fear of "offending" or "upsetting"
someone? 

Get real.






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 13 23:50:34 1998
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> Just curious about the inconsistency.

*holds hand in heads*

because this letter was a humour vehicle for myself.

see here is the deal:  contradicting myself == humour.

see my definitive guide to dry wit for information, available on a 
mailing list near you.

> 
> >
> >
> > I hate PLUR.
> 
> So why sign your letter???
> 
> > PLUR,
> >
> > Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
> >
> > freshie
> > Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
> > http://silly.com/~tang
> 
> 
> 
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:00:54 1998
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Amen.
In both your posts you have elloquently given word to the feelings that resonate
in my soul.
kbOOM

*byroni* wrote:

> I agree with you. The reason people post on the subject and then go off on
> tangents is because this is so much to us.... what it means floods
> guidelines.
>
> I think perhaps we'll have to have private parties... private to those who
> are positive, and are on the same level of meaning and undestanding.... or
> those who wish to be. Because I know exactly what you're saying about kids
> dressed in Tommy Hilfiger clothes, looking *better* than the rest in
> *their* eyes.... when we should all be equal and that's what it's about.
> Moving beyond *this* and on to something greater... as ***one***. So lets
> not focus on our clothes, but on -*eachother*-.... it's nice to look good,
> but sometimes $100 pants can be reconsidered..... :) It's so evidant
> that some people just don't take it as deep or place as much of
> themselves into this... but that's fine... the problem is when it's
> becoming more and more like this... and we're having to go underground
> even more and more to find that vibe we're after.... until you reach the
> point where there is only a speaker, 2 turntables, and a DJ and his sound...
> and you.... because anything that isn't giving to the collective, is
> taking away from it. By giving to the collective you're giving to
> yourself. We are all one and the same.
>
> The main problem I see is when promoters PROMOTE to the masses... and the
> masses aren't generally going to give positive energy to the vibe of a
> party. So what exactly is the promoter's intension.... it can't be the
> vibe of the party, because they know what the average citizen is like...
> but they also know what their capable of (giving, loving, discovering who
> they really are)... so are they interested in getting as many oxygen
> aborbers in one place and cashing in, or are they interested in spreading
> the good energy and enlightening others....??? I think if it was trully
> the second opion, they wouldn't be packing people into wharehouses that
> are unpermited, lack ventalation, generally dark and uncomfortable, and
> $20!!!..... People... we need to organize more events such as SUNSET...
> where the price tag is positive notions... and kindness to others...
> Money spoils the truth that we're seeking.... and the truth that we
> discover is frightening....     exploitation for financial gain.... when
> someone turns their back on their real intensions and focuses on
> themselves....
>
> Hmmmm..........
>
> Byron
>
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, b e n c h u n wrote:
>
> > >That said, why do *you* rave?
> >
> > that's a compelling question. something along the lines of "why are we
> > here?" ok, maybe not that intense... =) here's my thoughts, for what
> > they're worth:
> >
> > i've been thinking a lot on this subject lately. people always say that the
> > scene itself is cyclical, as are our relationships with it. i guess i'm
> > entering a phase of that cycle i haven't seen before... *gasp* am i growing
> > up? gosh, i turn 20 this year!
> >
> > a thought, i think someone else asked earlier: what does it say about the
> > depth of community that we often refer to this as a "scene" ? maybe
> > nothing, it's just a word. maybe it says a lot.
> >
> > when i first fell in to this lovely idea we call rave, it was pretty
> > overwhelming. never had i had experiences like this before, and i'm not
> > talking about drugs at all (we'll get to that later). i'm talking about
> > just the idea of people coming together to dance, places to do such a thing
> > not only existing but also fun ideas like a "creation wall" to draw on or
> > video feedback being explored. and it was easy for me (especially WITH drug
> > enhancement) to project my utopian ideal world on to the new-found rave
> > world. to be fair, it's often closer than the daytime world. but it's not
> > exactly perfect. such is life. these are the realizations you come to.
> >
> > first, music. after spending some time with it, one begins to know the
> > music in a more intimate way. and this is the foundation of "why i rave".
> > innovation, emotion, and technology coming together to make new sounds. i
> > dig. these days, i find myself listening with a more critical ear to the
> > DJ, appreciating good mixing and turntable skills. but forever lost is the
> > bliss of being unable to tell one song from the next all night long. this
> > change is a process. there's all sorts of analogies to growing up.
> >
> > and then there's the drug aspect. (yes, i know this list is archived and
> > public.) no drug experience i've ever had, before or since, was like the
> > first time on MDMA. yes, there is a lot of potential to learn from this.
> > it's also simplistically easy to take a pill to have a good time,
> > guaranteed. i see a lot of my friends stagnant in their lives, stuck in a
> > routine of going to every "good" party, taking e, enjoying it, and moving
> > on to the next day without another thought. i'm not one (obviously) to
> > pontificate on the evils of drugs, but this isn't what i want from a drug
> > that i have felt has the potential for so much more. i want it to remain
> > special to me. i don't want my good times to just come from a capsule,
> > although they have in the past.
> >
> > going to parties and staying sober is different when the newness of raving
> > has worn off. i feel like i see a much more balanced view, yet i miss that
> > effortless rise above the surroundings to feelings of joy at the simple
> > existance of the party. i get bummed out when i see people stand on the
> > dance floor and pose in brand name clothes that were made in a sweat shop
> > in a third world country. i get bummed when a DJ starts scratching, 50 kids
> > run up to the front, watch him scratch and then walk away as soon as he
> > stops and miss seeing him actually drop the next record and perform the
> > mix. i get bummed out when people start to idolize certain DJs, and stop
> > listening to the actual music. i get bummed out when people smoke in
> > non-smoking places. lots of things. not to focus on the negative, but my
> > point is this: people do things at parties that i don't think they should
> > do, that i think take away from what we can create together. but this is
> > only my opinion, and i don't feel that i have the right to take away
> > someone else's good time just because i don't like how they do it.
> >
> > *boom* suddenly the rave world looks a lot more like the real world again.
> > same people, same problems. so now i feel myself evolving, trying to take
> > what i loved so much about the way things felt and make that more real.
> > with one of my friends (mattd@cwnet.com), i'm trying to put together a drum
> > and bass early evening event at a local coffee shop. remember, i live in
> > vacaville. =) and i'm thinking about the future a lot. i'd like to host
> > parties some day, but they would probably be private. but then there's the
> > whole elitism thing, which i do want to avoid. so it gets complicated.
> > maybe i'll just work on graduating from college first.
> >
> > well, somehow "why do you rave" turned in to "tell us all about your
> > thoughts on your experience with the rave scene and also where you are in
> > life" but i'm glad it did... sfraves is a place i feel like sharing all
> > this stuff, and hopefully there's some kindred souls out there... and now,
> > good night...
> >
> >
> > . . . . . . .
> > benchun@mit.edu
> > http://mdma.mit.edu/
> >
>
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
>
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
>
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                         -me




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:01:06 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@*triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: <blkadder@value.net>
Cc: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:01:37 -0800
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fyi I love to discuss this stuff. I am not unstable. Read my other post
badly titled"Okay but please be careful" I was not trying to endorse
sensorship. I am an extremely fun loving guy, dedicated to love and respect
of all peoples and I was just tring to ask people to think twice about what
they post, yes they have the right to post what they wnat but I have seen
relgious falme wars and they are not fun and they find their way into almost
every discusion, chat room. I was hoping to spare this discusion from that.
I overeacted
I am sorry. Let it go move on. Smile Be happy. Take a deep breath and let
out a big huge belch ; )

MooK<><

ps- doh!! I should kept my mouth shut when Ihad the chance Well I learned my
lesson
-----Original Message-----
From: blkadder@value.net <blkadder@value.net>
To: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>
Cc: Sfraves Discussion <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves


>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Mook wrote:
>
>>  I think discussing sensitive topics such as religion on a forum so
diverse
>> as this is not only dangerous, easily turning friends into enemies, but
also
>> strays from the purpose and goals we are trying to achieve here, whatever
>> they are they don't involve religion in any way (except for those of you
>> that look at raving as your religion).
>
>Discussing *ANYTHING* on this list can be "dangerous."
>
>Please give us a list of what we can and can't talk about and I will be
>happy to totally ignore it.
>
>> How would you like it if I started using this list to fill up your
mailbox
>> with religious messages trying to convert everybody to my way of
thinking.
>
>I imagine that I would view you as one of the millions of slightly
>unstable people in this world that managed to get an email address, and
>offer you an honored place in my mail filters.
>
>> So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST
>
>You know, I see comments like this as well as the one from Greg asking
>people to take their discussions to private mail, and I have to ask, what
>the hell do you people want? Do you want a totally sanitized world where
>no one can speak their mind for fear of "offending" or "upsetting"
>someone?
>
>Get real.
>
>
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:02:52 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:09:18 -0500
From: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
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Organization: Gang of Virtue Webmedia ... http://www.interlog.com/~hen
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To: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
CC: "You're Busted!" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, hak1@earthlink.net,
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Subject: Re: How the name Deepfog came into being? -- MY EMAIL
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"You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on me?  I
thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.  Better
read this one."


Although I am known as quite the Prankster to my friends and have even
written 4 drafts of  a book called Prankster on my Web site, my email
was, and is, for real :)

The little film will be extreme low budget and will focus on two
characters, a DJ and his girlfriend touring the US [including Toronto].
I am planning to do a short story based on this as well, but essentially
the DJ’s name is currently Deepfog. Why? I don’t know. Call it Karma or
just that I wanted to keep the names "real" and chose yours -- on a whim
-- after sifting through over 1000 emails from 8 mailing lists.

My "home" mailing list for years is WYNSOR [Western New York, Southern
Ontario – I’m in Toronto], the other two writers reside in Austin and
LA.

The female name we are currently using is also from this list, and I’ll
be contacting her about the origins of her name, too. So sorry to spook
you, but we just picked a name and are doing some research to follow up
and make the story as real as we can. Vrave will also be a part of the
story and we will be using names from there as well, and inform the real
people as I have done.

Deepfog, when you get a chance and if you want, please email me
"personally".

Thanks.

da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Deepfog wrote:

> You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on me?
> I
> thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.
> Better
> read this one.
>
> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:39:36 -0500
> >From: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
> >Reply-To: hen@interlog.com
> >Organization: Gang of Virtue Webmedia ...
> http://www.interlog.com/~hen
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >To: deepfog@hooked.net
> >Subject: How the name Deepfog came into being?
> >X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
> >Status: RO
> >X-Status:
> >X-Keywords:
> >X-UID: 17
> >
> >Hey there Deepfog.
> >
> >Listen, I'm curious as to how you came up with the handle "Deepfog".
> The
> >reason I'm asking is because I'm co-writing a short film script about
>
> >the rave scene and I have been using the handle Deepfog for the one
> >character, who is a DJ.
> >
> >That doesn't mean it's going to continue that way as we are only
> >beginning writing but I wanted to find out from you how you came up
> with
> >the name because we are doing character bios and this may help.
> >
> >DJ Deepfog, at this point, is going to be the creator of a new sound
> >called Deepfog Acid, which is like hard acid with some Jungly
> >drum'n'bass.
> >
> >Thanks a lot.
> >
> >da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
> >humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
> >night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:03:14 1998
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Subject: Re: Bondage a No Go
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brian j tang wrote:

> And Bondage a Go Go.  I mean is this cheesy or anything??

Yes. It is horrible. It used to be good. Now it mostly consists of a
bunch
of 40-something voyeurs and really crappy music. Oh, did I mention the
charming security?
 -=-==-

o boy I get to show my bitter side...

I got thrown out (welll...forcibly pushed out for using the women's
bathroom) I had been in there for ten minutes talking with my friends
and giving them details for an upcoming show while waiting for a stall.
The line had disappeared and as I was stepping in this foolish guard
popped his head in & said "hey you out out of here" I might have but I
told him after i go to the bathroom. After I came out I told him I would
leave the restroom After I washed my hands thank you. I asked him what
the big deal was but all he would state was that I had to leave.

he then told me I had to go & asked him again what for, you have to go

then I said well then I have to tell my friends I'm leaving

you have to go are you willing to leave --> no.

he then pushed me out

the other guards at the door ask what for and that's when he said for
using the wowen's bathroom

Oh did I mention, I had just gotten done talking with the club's general
manager who had given me drink tickets & VIP pass because I had told him
I was honestly concerned about hostessing two drag events at the Troc
with how the security at the door coming inb was nightmare-ish &
homophobic (anti-security)) it was after his re-assurances that none of
these guys would be working the nights of our shows (I pointed out that
that wasn't what I was seeking - maybe better secuirty guards or
training for the current ones might help)

again when it's money as the goal you start to lose the soul

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:06:21 1998
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From: jonas@nit.AirTouch.COM (Jonas Edgeworth)
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> > Just curious about the inconsistency.
> 
> *holds hand in heads*
> 

How do you that? I only have one head, so I dont know how to hold my hand.


with a slightly inferior # of heads,

JoNaS

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:09:07 1998
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> 
> > > Just curious about the inconsistency.
> > 
> > *holds hand in heads*
> > 
> 
> How do you that? I only have one head, so I dont know how to hold my hand.
> 

lol.  sorry.  been working to hard, trying to finish the project I'm 
gettting sent out there for.
 
> with a slightly inferior # of heads,
>
> JoNaS
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:12:00 1998
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Subject: Re: Bondage a No Go
To: holmannh@wellsfargo.com
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In-Reply-To: <199801140000.QAA23925@unixm1.WellsFargo.Com> from "holmannh@wellsfargo.com" at Jan 13, 98 04:04:00 pm
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Wacky, the last time I went, which was quite a while ago, admittedly,
there were three trannies in the ladies room and none of them got any
crap. 

Granted, like I said, I haven't been there in a /long/ time, but yet, it's
becoming full of tourists (as I say in my webpage in fact! :) ).

Haze

holmannh@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> 
> I got thrown out (welll...forcibly pushed out for using the women's
> bathroom) I had been in there for ten minutes talking with my friends
> and giving them details for an upcoming show while waiting for a stall.
> The line had disappeared and as I was stepping in this foolish guard
> popped his head in & said "hey you out out of here" I might have but I
> told him after i go to the bathroom. After I came out I told him I would
> leave the restroom After I washed my hands thank you. I asked him what
> the big deal was but all he would state was that I had to leave.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:12:35 1998
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Ran D. Dreams wrote:

> 
> Moshe said;
> >what in gods name makes yall think you are entitled to this 
> information?
> 
>  Well, after Dumb and Spacey (who incidently had two people DIE at a 
> party of theirs not too long ago) fuck over people in the scene they 
> seem to be confused as why the folks in this here scene are pissed and 
> have no respect for them. We are not entitled to this info, but if the 
> dynamic dummies want respect, from us, they will comply.
> 

I see, we've gone to name calling and blaming them for things that had
nothing to do with their parties, planning or methods.  Straight up, I
played, I haven't been paid, but I've talked to Stacey and we've worked it
out.  I recommend anyone else to do the same.  They aren't ogres in my
limited experience... perhaps in a bit of a pinch right now, but to me
this scene is about being a good human, and hoping others are trying to do
the same.  I give the benefit of the doubt.  The same figurative gesture
of trusting people by accepting candy from strangers usually fails when
taken to something more important, like taking people's word on things.

Nomad should get wise, and do whatever they can to get square with anyone
they owe money to, but I don't think lambasting them gets their hopes to
high about working with people from the list.

The boat party tragedy is not their fault.  Think about it... two people
died... one lost on drugs decided to dive off the side of the boat and the
other died trying to save his life.  That is a horrible, horrible tragedy,
and in this day and age, if there was anything that they did to cause or
even allow that to happen, they'd be up for manslaughter or criminal
negligence charges.  They're not, so back down on that.  I have listened
to what you and Wayne (two people in the scene I have a great deal of
respect for btw) have to say (some of which seems very viable and rather
unsettling), and it's cheap shots like comments about the Splish party
that started causing me to disregard your comments and opinions regarding
Nomad, regardless of how valid the remainder of your comments, experiences
and observations may be. 

I just don't think name calling and low blows are going to help anybody
see the truth... which is something I'm not too sure of at this point but
choose not to make assumptions about.

> 
> >it may be your scene but it wasnt your party. 
> 
> 
>  Gee. Tell that to Vlad (ravers are more important than promoters or 
> artists).
> 

Without a rave it's hard to be a "raver".  Not that I'd want to be one.  I
hope years after raves are a memory, we can still gather, and dance and be
ourselves from time to time.  Some of us did it, or felt a need to do it
before this scene came into our lives, and I hope to do it after it's a
dead fad by the roadside of fashion's cruel progress.  It brings me a
deep, satisfying joy, one I go home smiling and reminiscing about, one I
wake up the next morning still elated about.

> 
> >I think this thread is
> >getting ridicoulous, childish(case in point: rann d dreams post),and 
> just
> >plain mean. 
> 
>  Of course you are going to say that. You have a bias. And pointing 
> fingers is also childish. I think mean is more along the lines of not 
> paying people rather than calling some assholes out to deal with thier 
> responsibilities.
> 

Nomad in my limited experience returns phone calls.  I honestly feel I
will be taken care of... I'll let anyone burn me once but it's not in
Nomad's best interest to burn me, regardless of their motives.  If they're
a business, they should understand that I have legal recourse to collect
the previously agreed amount.  If they are in it for love of seeing people
get together in love with music and life, then I'm sure I'll be taken care
of as well, as I hope they realize that I provided my part of the bargain,
and now wait for them to meet their end of the agreement. 


> 
> 
> >It makes me sick and makes me not want to get this list for a
> >while.
> 
> 
>  Poor baby.
> 

Some people may have gone too far with this discussion, I think that would
be my summation.  I'd personally be really upset if someone talked like
this to my face.  It's patronizing, and isn't doing anything for the
discussion at hand.  Quick hint: if anybody wants anything from me, they
might want to consider not addressing me as "dynamic dummy" unless they
know me pretty well (regardless of how accurate a description of me that
might be   ;)    ).

> 
> >your freind,moshe
> 
>  Your not our friend Moshe. Most of us don't even know you (or care to).
> 

Moshe, like yourself Randy, is a stand up mofo who has a solid block of
ideals.  He has been sober for some time, and stays in the scene as a DJ,
as a member and willing assistant to several crews, and loves to dance and
play records and hang out and meet people.  Like you Randy, he is real, he
is moody, but I'd rather surround myself with people who have opinions
than the fake yahoos who ride the plur line and never seem capable of any
expression but smiling and asking where to score another E cap so they can
keep their personal vibE alive.  It's about gathering despite our
diversity... we should be able to agree to disagree on some issues.

I love you both, your unique contributions to the scene are an amazing
gift that lots of people have enjoyed and used for personal growth and
connection.  Let's not cheapen it by reducing ourselves to bickering over
someone else's problems.  Chill out por favor.

Peace,
AndyW



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:21:29 1998
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Subject: Trannys? a No Go
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If anyone wants Sister Kitty(holmannH@) to grace the girls bathroom at their next UG, 
party,rave or massive, it WILL cost you. 

Also The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence raise money for many needy organizations. 
Noone ever throws a benefit for them. (thier overhead is low). 

Haze wrote:
> 
> Wacky, the last time I went, which was quite a while ago, admittedly,
> there were three trannies in the ladies room and none of them got any
> crap.
> 
> Granted, like I said, I haven't been there in a /long/ time, but yet, it's
> becoming full of tourists (as I say in my webpage in fact! :) ).
> 
> Haze
> 
> holmannh@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> >
> > I got thrown out (welll...forcibly pushed out for using the women's
> > bathroom) I had been in there for ten minutes talking with my friends
> > and giving them details for an upcoming show while waiting for a stall.
> > The line had disappeared and as I was stepping in this foolish guard
> > popped his head in & said "hey you out out of here" I might have but I
> > told him after i go to the bathroom. After I came out I told him I would
> > leave the restroom After I washed my hands thank you. I asked him what
> > the big deal was but all he would state was that I had to leave.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:33:18 1998
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Wacky, the last time I went, which was quite a while ago, admittedly,
there were three trannies in the ladies room and none of them got any
crap.

Granted, like I said, I haven't been there in a /long/ time, but yet,
it's
becoming full of tourists (as I say in my webpage in fact! :) ).

Haze
 -==-=-

someone told me it was reasonable until they started getting writeups in
the mainstream press

then became a tourist trap

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:42:09 1998
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Subject: RE: Trannys? a No Go
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Love Caterpillar wrote:

If anyone wants Sister Kitty to grace the girls bathroom at their next
UG,
party,rave or massive, it WILL cost you.
 -==-=-=-=-
ummm...I've never put this out as a service but...ummmm...I've yet to
charge just for showing up...
what is your point?

Also The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence raise money for many needy
organizations.
Noone ever throws a benefit for them. (thier overhead is low).
=-=-=-=-=-
actually our overhead is about $19,000 this year which is still less
than non-profits that have any paid staff (in general)
again, (Iyou're bored aren't you?) what is your point --> you were
there!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:42:40 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: With a C...
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You know, I really don't know where this came from. A friend of mine sent it
to me.. It kind of reminds me of a Levis commercial or something.


Someone wrote:

>I just got some questions:
>wondering like how long it takes to be a dope scratcher is
>there any > books and shit to learn how or is there anyone
>who teaches out of van > I got two sets of 1200's and just
>like crates,crates,crates of vinyl.  Reply back !!!

peace

---------------------

it takes the length of the toad man multiplied by the silver duck moosemeat
crossfader... i dont think you really understand what real skratching is...
fools dont know... i dont teach how to skratch... i skratch with anybody but
if fools bite they feel the wrath of the mixmaster ice skratch...i am
skratch you dont need crates and crates... i am happy with toasted
marshmello breaks and booger breaks and marsupial bellyflop breaks... all i
do is skratch to "its tiiiime" all fuckin day, then speed it up to 45 speed
and skratch some more... you will soon see who can skratch... dmc vancouver
im gonna blow it to frozen toad land... you should feel blessed with this
knowledge... i ussually dont talk to people who spell skratching with a C...
peace


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:55:27 1998
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Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
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Cc: blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <01bd207f$95a11820$5de0adcd@pcmc.triad.com> from "Mook" at Jan 13, 98 04:01:37 pm
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> badly titled"Okay but please be careful" I was not trying to endorse
> sensorship. I am an extremely fun loving guy, dedicated to love and respect

Take it easy Mook. Anybody accusing you of censorship doesn't know the meaning
of the word. Adhering to the topic of a mailing list is not censorship. But
then again you'll get a buttload of people here telling you that a sale on
purple pickles at Safeway is rave-related.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 00:58:38 1998
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From: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>
To: "'socal-raves@ucsd.edu'" <socal-raves@ucsd.edu>,
  "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Stargaze II review...
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:02:24 -0800
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Hey there listers...

Just a few thoughts while I'm winding down after a weekend filled with
many cool impressions and deep thoughts.

For those of you who were able to come for the first time and join our
raving family last weekend, I want to again welcome you to our group!
And for those of you who couldn't come, especially if you came to the
first Stargaze, we missed you!  It was so great seeing all the old
And new faces... it really was a weekend that I'll always cherish...

Again the weekend exceeded my hopes for our gathering.... There are many
time (especially lately) when people have asked me, and I've asked
Myself about the death/ dying / commercialization /going above ground of
our scene.... but after a weekend like this it is super encouraging to
see
That the vibe, the music, and the energy that creates and exists as the
basic structure of our culture is alive and well.... one of my only
regrets is that
I wish we could have had more people along.  The invite for this party
(as opposed to the first one) was private only-- there was just no way
we could 
Accommodate 200 people for a skiing/ raving retreat up in the mountains.


In the end we had 34 people show up, from all parts of California... LA,
the city, Sacramento... it was so nice to see the different centers of
our scene come together and cooperate and work so hard to have something
go off like it did.   All the SF vs. LA stuff personally bugs the shit
out of me, and even though we are a little different by nature and
locale, we all hold the important stuff close to our hearts... the love
for the music, dancing, freedom, and friendship.  

A bunch of people from LA drove up late Thursday night and crashed at my
house in SLO... a small house and a bunch of ravers.  It was crowded but
it was kind of fun too!  My dogs indeed went nuts, and I'm sorry
(snicker snicker) I had to crank on Goa Gil in the morning to get
everyone up... but with the smiles from Cyblade and aimee, dawg, joe and
stacie, suzette, dave and ian... everything went pretty well.  on Friday
we were on the road by 10am, on the way to Tahoe.  Several of the others
from LA had left at 6:30 that morning!  that's impressive.  We caravaned
on the way up, and arrived in Tahoe at our house after dark.  Rob, Dave
and his crew were already settled in (hmmmgh.  the place was already
OPEN huh?) ;)  We really lucked out we got a super cool place... our
place had 7 bedrooms, 5 bathrooms, and had beds / futon spaces for 24,
hot tub for 10 peeps and it was within walking distance from
Heavenly!!... we actually had more people there for Saturday nights
party.... Cyblade went out into the snowbank at one point and stamped
STARGAZE II into the snow in 10' letters....

Saturday we all got up to a yummy breakfast (thanx team wolfgang puck)
(our gatherings are organized into teams, some that do sound, some who
provide the music (djs, pa etc), some who did food, some who organized
the carpooling, etc etc). for the daytime some people went snowboarding,
some went skiing, and others had a great time snowshoeing...  the
weather was incredible.... Snow was everywhere.... Hanging off the roof
of our house were icicles 5' long!  Super cool.  Skiing with ravers is
awesome.  They are all bugged to no end by the weak muzak that the lift
lodges blast out while you're in lift line.  They all have skis that are
either Rossignol XTC this, E series that, etc.  It was odd that the lift
ticked "word of the day" was a sesame street character--snuffalufagus
(sp?) there was even a lift called GROOVE.  Scary and eerie.  Our
retreat was called stargaze and all the runs at Heavenly practically are
stars, constellations, or the like.  Odd huh?  Being ravers we were all
in great shape (heh) and had fun blowing our whistles when we were bored
on the chairlifts too!  and elmo doesn't look so good all snowy after a
good ski wreck!  I guess all the different groups had a great time...
that doesn't surprise me at all! 

The day went well.... no one tried drinking and playing football, and no
one smacked into trees either.  That night we had a great family style
sit down dinner (imagine feeding 30+ staved tired ravers!) and then
cleaned up and rearranged the furniture for our party.  Downstairs Rob
and Dave and crew helped setup a chill room.  It had a smoke machine,
this real cool strobe light thing (freaky cause it was inside this lamp
shade thing they threw together).  Upstairs was the main area, and we
had schedules posted around the house to let everyone know who was
playing when.  We had TONS of sound-- we were quite concerned about
people stopping in and checking in on that enormous thumping sound, but
the house was pretty remote, surrounded by snowbanks and hills, and
there was no one in the surrounding cabins/ condos.  And the fact that
sat night a BLIZZARD was in full effect so no snoopy cruisers were
around (even if they had chains I'm sure they would have slid down the
hill!)  Zza (sfraves) spun a real cool hard dark trance set (even after
a nasty knife/apple/thumb cutting accident.... What a DJ!) to begin the
night, and then StillWind (Fuz-E prods, from Sac) spun.  IMHO he is one
of the best trance DJs I've ever seen spin in person... period.  Amazing
stuff!  Then we had Radley Marx (Elemental, Seismic, SF) right after
him-- again a crazy hard trance performance... it literally blew my mind
that right in front of me two of my all time fav DJs spun back to back!
Kurt went on after Radley with his live stuff-- he called it the mind
resonation sequence, and it was super mind numbing.  He did the same
type of thing with his 303 at the last party-- and floored us all there
too!.  Andy W from the BBQ & Beats crew ended up with a cool morning
set, spinning on 3 1200s at a few points in his set.  We recorded the
whole thing, and are hopefully going to burn a 6-7 CD set from the
event.  Once I have more info I'll post to the lists again and see if
people out there want copies....

Sunday we got to sleep in, hang out in the snow, recover from the night
before, and just kick back.  Some people had to leave on Sunday, but
most were able to stay for the night.  I tried trainwrecking on the main
system for a while, but then StillWind hopped on again, and he spun for
like 5 hours while we prepared dinner, cleaned dishes, and restored the
layout of the house.  Kurt also played along with him live, and it was
almost too good to be true.  I remember checking in with Adam who was
busy doing dishes that night, and he had that confused and bored look on
his face (the one that says "boy do I love dishes!") but I simply asked
him when was the last time he did dishes to a live StillWind set... and
a smile crossed his face and he bouncily went back to work.  StillWind
and Kurt played on for all of us right up to the point where suzette
said "food" the suddenly there was a trainwreck and a strange static
silence sound... ;)

Again we had a delicious home cooked dinner, watched the simpsons
(imagine 30+ cracked out ravers all watching the Simpsons together!
Hilarious!) I think we had like 3 Playstations, 1 nintendo and other
game stuff.....  the hot tub was super cool... and the vibe was awesome!
We left Monday after helping everyone get on their way (from cables
slipping off cars, to locking the keys in a running vehicle (whew!) to
sliding and slipping our ways down the mountain to grab some food before
returning to society.

It was a great time.  Hi to everyone who helped out... Chris for all the
website stuff, Zza, Radley, StillWind, Kurt, and Andy for the music sat
nite.  Thx Suzette for the food (awesome), and to all the socalers and
sfravers who came.  I had a great time... it was truly.. magical.  And I
look forward to seeing you all, new faces and old, at stargaze III (stay
posted)

Geoffs top ten highlights of the weekend

10	Cyblades hot tub dash / snow angel attempt / back to the hot tub
relay!
9	Zza spinning with half a thumb after his accident...
8	Snging "I got you babe" on Orion... 
7	Andy's advice "never get a synth" (in response to me complaining
about computer games sucking the freetime from my life!) 
6	Hot Tub... ;) or was it Tubby? ;)
5	Pure, uncut, snow.  (do you have any idea what the street value
of this mountain is?)
4	Bijans jungle set during dinner prep on sat nite...
3	Sending radley, jewelz, and josh on a 5 mile goosechase when
they asked for directions to the house (they should know better!) 
2	Terra Firma Floating... with snow falling outside!
1	The music! The vibe! And the people! 

We have a website but its currently locked at the moment-- we'll release
it soon.  Please email me if you want to find out more about our
gatherings and about our ideas, especially if you are interested in
attending or helping out with our next gathering!   We'll be posting
some reviews soon as well as our pics we took of the weekend... and stay
tuned for the information about the stargaze II CD set... that is going
to be a super compilation! 

And for me, its back to work!  (Hope to see you all at Planet Rock this
weekend!) 

Hugs and better ways of respiring (inside joke) and Andy... you can keep
the belt.  But please don't hold buckle up your rad sense of humor!   

gEoff ;)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:03:50 1998
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From: Love Butterfly <hernancz@sirius.com>
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holmannh@wellsfargo.com wrote:
>  (Iyou're bored aren't you?) what is your point --> you were
> there!

I was engaging in enigmatic 
BSPing for my favorite Non-Profit Organization. 
The original club kids--

The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:11:02 1998
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From: glittergirl@value.net (glittergirl@value.net)
Subject: Re: purple pickles/Religious Discusions on SFRaves
Cc: storpis@crl.com
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>Sharif Torpis said....
> But then again you'll get a buttload of people here telling you that a sale on
>purple pickles at Safeway is rave-related.

Only if the pickles have those flourescent produce stickers on them that
glow in the blacklight.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:28:44 1998
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By opening this Email your system has now been infected
with the foolish fish virus. This virus will cause warm
fuzzy feelings in your heart knowing that someone lovEs
you enough to have sent you this. 

If you have been properly infected you will now
bE feeling warm and possibly a tiny smi)e is beginning
to spread over your facE. 

If not you have recieved a faulty version of this virus.

	><{{{">   <"}}}><

		foolish fish

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:29:02 1998
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To: cybertours@ina.com
From: al@ina.com (INTERNET alfredo--SF's BEST CYBERCAFE)
Subject: SF WEBMIXER: PLEASE NO MORE FREE BEER!!
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Yes! In further attempts to loosen up the internet industry
INTERNET alfredo & Brian Webster, in conjunction with
Black Star Beer (http://www.blackstarbeer.com/) are giving
away beer AGAIN!!!

DRINK UP! This Wed 14 starting at 5:30pm.

And if that is not reason enough to come meet the most
fascinating OLD BOYS network in SOMA valley then how about
this: MEET THE BIG DADDY HIMSELF!

Curt Mayer, Co-founder of Emergent Corporation and Chief
Technologist of Emergent Corporation in San Mateo
(http://www.emergent.com ). Emergent Corporation is a
leading professional services firm in the area of scalable
application design and development.

The firm is dedicated to assisting clients in deploying
high-impact information technology systems that deliver
unprecedented levels of scalability and adaptability.
Emergent Corporation recently won a contract with the
Internet Council of Registrars (CORE) to build and operate
the new Internet Domain Name Shared Registry System (SRS).
The SRS is the neutral, shared database repository that
coordinates registrations from CORE and propagates those
names to the global Internet Domain Name System (DNS).
Under The Generic Top Level Domain Memorandum of Understanding
(gTLD-MoU), seven new domain suffixes will be available
in early 1998 :

.firm - "for businesses, or firms"
.shop - "for businesses offering goods to purchase"
.web  - "for entities emphasizing activities related to the WWW"
.arts - "for entities emphasizing cultural and entertainment activities"
.rec  - "for entities emphasizing recreation/entertainment activities"
.info - "for entities providing informationservices"
.nom  - "for those wishing individual or personal nomenclature"

Pre-registration for new domain names has already begun.
The new top level domain names will have a profound effect
upon the structure, culture, and functionality of the internet.
Curt will talk about the new Internet Domain Name Shared
Registry System that Emergent is building and how it will work
to keep track of the new domain names being registered.
Information will also be available from several of the many
companies who are authorized to register the new domain names
and are providing competitive domain registration services.
This evening will provide first hand knowledge on
a topic important to all those who have a unique domain name
or are planning to apply for one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Where:
INTERNET alfredo
San Francisco's 24 Hour Cyberlounge
790-A Brannan Street @ 7th Street
South of  Market, San Francisco
http://www.ina.com/directions.html

Who:
Brian Webster and Associates is a consulting firm
specializing in Internet business networking events.
INTERNET alfredo is San Francisco's premiere cyberlounge
and salon for the digital age. INTERNET alfredo provides
Web business people and cyber-nomads a 24 hour multimedia
studio with a lightning-fast T1 line and powerful workstations
for project work, classes and events.

When:
This Wednesday January 14th   5:30 - 8:30 PM


The Deal:
$5.00 admission gets you in the door and a name badge to identify
yourself and your company. Table space is available for everyone's
business cards and brochures. Industry sponsors will be showcasing
new cutting edge technology, Web tools and services.  Each evening
features a VIP speakers (Very Interesting Person) talking from
7 to 7:30 PM.  VIP speakers are available for personal conversations.
Many Internet connected computers are available for all to use.

Please come with your business cards, brochures and URLs!
Forward this email to invite your business friends and associates!

RSVP is encouraged
Brian@brianwebster.com    (415) 835-4732

_______________________________
Alfredo Lusa
INTERNET alfredo
http://ina.com/

open 24hrs: 790-A Brannan Street
San Francisco, CA, U.S.A.
415.437.3140 T
415.437.3149 F


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:30:04 1998
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From: Jeffrey Pascone <jpascone@dnai.com>
To: "'SF Raves'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Need a DJ for this Saturday (17th)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:40:41 -0000
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New Years in Tahoe was a major success. Mike and Jason spun until 5:00AM 
and people were seriously digging. The next morning when my red eyes barely 
opened, I noticed the bulk of the plaster on the ceiling of the third floor 
had fallen. Now that's a party! Great job guys! They managed to spin 
without a hitch through 4 kegs and lord knowZe how many people.

Unfortunately, these two aren't available for this weekend and I am looking 
for somebody to come spin at a little shin-dig I am throwing Saturday 
evening in the East Bay. There will be some live music up front (my band) 
then after that the DJ owns the floor. As some of you who attended on New 
Years might know, my friends LOVE to party so expect it to blast in to the 
wee hours... I have a PA with a couple of large Peavy cabinets and a 12 
track mixer. All you need bring is vinyl and decks or whatever your weapons 
of choice are.
Let me know if you are interested. Of course any cute raving ladies are 
more then invited too. Will probably be a smallish crowd, 20+, but fun, 
major energy, tasty beer, kewl energy, yadda-yadda-yadda..


Regards,
Jeffrey



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:30:17 1998
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From: OKELLY@peddie.org (OKELLY)
Subject: Re[2]: Happy Kidz = WoW!!!!!!
To: Mark Carey <mcarey@triad.com>, just jer <jer@best.com>
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  Sfraves Discussion <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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If you are intrested in Mix tapes by dj Mars and Mystere
go to Haight street and on the first block across from ameobia records, is F8

        its a bomb little store where you can sample music on both vinal and cd,
there mix tapes are in the glass box. IF you buy any tapes I suggest Mars "let 
peace prevail": its a great melodic peace that takes you away, 
        If you go say high to Mike he works in there, stay cool and party on
        
        O W E N

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:30:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:30:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Alex Mouton <parch@kzsu.Stanford.EDU>
Message-Id: <199801140130.RAA09829@kzsu.Stanford.EDU>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: <[BSP]> ICE! the best party jan 30th has ever seen
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HEY EVERYONE!

I want to let you all know about
a party that my family, the numinous collective
is throwing here in San Luis Obispo.  On Jan 30th
we have  3 great Djs, Jorge Reyna, Mr. Annand, and Nando, of 
planet 9 coming up from LA to spin house and TRANCE (accent on 
the trance ;) These guys are definite up and comings in the LA 
scene...and the COOLER part of the LA scene no less ;)  on top 
of that my man SPACEBOY will be spinning his bestest trance as well
and then Aleks will be spinning trance and breaks for the opener.

We have a great location claimed with enough space for all of you to dance all
night =) thats right ALL NITE!  ICE will continue rocking untill a solid 6 am 
and i can say that with no fear of fals advertising ;)

what might a toasty party like this cost one? one might ask?
45? like what seems to be the trend these days?
25? massive presale prices?

NO!

were talking an honest 10$ to wiggle and shake all night =)
and if youre in town early, we have 8$ presales availible!

San Luis Obispo is only 3 hrs from the bay area, and I 
am sure you will all enjoy our cozy little scene we got 
going, no stabbings, no frowney bizness..just smiley fun!

so give us a call!

I look foreward to seeing you aoll down here! this is gonna be 
one for the boox!

MEEKS
for info..
805.594.5964

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:30:59 1998
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From: sarchibald@nummi.com
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:38:42 -0800
Subject: *** A Message From Rebel Alliance Sound *** (BSP)
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Hello everyone and Happy New Year.

I hope that the new year has brought many of you a new (and hopfully
better) outlook on life, love and just plain fun.  To those that have
allready broken your new years resoultion: better luck in 99'.

Well a few of us on the East Bay have gathered our forces to get a lil'
event goin on, I hope some of you have caught wind...
Our event is called _Under One Sky_ named so after an old 91' rave
magazine.  The event will have three skilled, up'n'comer DJ's (Ruen,
Balance, Anakin) and two special guests (Trace, JohnQ).  From 10:30 till
dawn - all ages.

The date: Saturday, January 17th. The space is indoors (a CBC), in the East
Bay, and a limited capacity.  A few tickets will be avalibale presale (only
100).  To be fair, the rest will be avaliable on the night of the event at
a nearby mappoint location from the party.

The cost: 5$. (Just the Rebel Alliance way of fightin' inflation)

I understand that both Thomas (trance'n'jungle factory) as well as Macadio
are throwing parties that night as well.  I firmly believe that our SF
scene is big enough to have three UG's and still keep everyone happy.  To
you two guys: the best of luck.

Final note:  I really have no qualms against others means of recreations,
however the proprietors of the space are adamantly against the consumption
of alcohol on the premises- so get sloshed in your car.

So if your in the mood for melodic to hard trance, hard acid, and plain old
skool techno (and I MEAN Old Skool!).  Give a buzz 'round the 17th.
(510.218.7494).  Hope to see some of ya there...

_Stay Connected_


-Adam

P.s. Hope to see some of you @ _Trance Masters_ on Friday!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:38:57 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:41:39 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: The New Law...
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Hello all.. 

i would like to bring up a point that seems to have been forgotten... 

i understand the new NON-Smokin law has gone into affect....

now.. i have no prollems going outside to smoke... 

but what do we do if the party won't let me out to have a cigarette....

i have to hide in the bathroom like i was in high school again... 

any one got any suggestions... 

**Promoters.. just let folks KNOW that it is going to be a NON-Smoking
Party.. and you aint going to let us folks out to smoke... **

at least with the information ... i can choose a different party... 

Peace and Stuff... 

-SugeR


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:55:31 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
cc: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: Titanic... any coincidence?? I think not....
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--The movie wasn't all that historically correct.  The last song the
titanic played wasn't a dirge; it was most likely ragtime to keep the
panic down and spirits up. Amazing what one learns in newspapers these
days (not that I read or anything).

:)
M&m

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, lara at vibe.org wrote:

> actually darlin, not to rain on your parade but
> the movie is historically correct, and the titanic sunk WAY before the
> term E was invented, and before MDMA was even invented. :)
> they didn't know how to party, they knew how to play
> the rich vs. the poor in a dog-eat-dog world.
> xo
> lara
> 
> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, TeKnODiVa wrote:
> 
> >  Hey people, what's up?? Doing well, i hope?  Ok, sNIKers and I just sat
> > through 2 hours and 74 minutes (WAIT! 3 hours and 14 minutes) of Titanic and
> > hm... there are some amazing things about their little boat party.  
> > 
> > 1st:  When they're not in first class, they spend all their time on the E deck
> > 
> > 2nd:  The E deck sign comes up at least 20 times in the movie
> > 
> > 3rd:  They have more fun partying on the E deck, where everyone is wasted
> > 
> > Coincidence?? NAh.. these kids knew how to party>  Heck.. they didn't shut off
> > the music till the boat went all the way under water.  Yep =)~*
> > But I'm never going on a boat again.
> > 
> >        hugs n'stuff,
> >          'trice the tekno diva
> > 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:56:13 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:53:00 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Re: Toward better massives (was: Re: Promoter bashing)
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Starchild,   Thank you for all the wonderful input.  I agree with ALMOST everything
you pointed out.  They are all great ideas, and I think there are a lot of promoters
out there that could really benefit by reading your insights.   Especially the parts
about honesty and friendliness.

I left your original reply below if anyone following this thread still cares to read
it, but there were two things that i did want to comment on:

firstly..... you wrote:

" Because the rave community draws its sustenance from goodwill and
cooperation, rather than competition, marketing parties to ravers for a
profit is a direct drain on the psychic resources of the community."

in a utopian society, it would be a perfect model.  And I truly wish you were right,
However in this scene, on a promoter level... this does not take place.    It is
very competitive, and as far as good will and cooperation between promoters....
Well.... The all mighty dollar and the fear of loss is the decisive factor.
The competitiveness between promoters in our scene is the primary reason why raves
cost what they do.  It is the main reason why a $10 party has a $25 cover
charge.     There are just too many parties on the same night, and by charging a
higher cover, it lowers the number of people until you break even.  And there are so
many other factors that contribute to this... its way more than i can get into right
now.

the other point that I disagree on is the security thing.  You said:

"And I know some people will disagree with this, but I don't think
anything is accomplished by searching people at the door.  If you're trying
to confiscate weapons, well, give a person the benefit of the doubt --
maybe they're carrying because they have to walk home through a rough
neighborhood, not because they want to make trouble inside.  Drugs?  I'd
rather a person be allowed to bring whatever it is inside and take it
there, than have them imbibing before they arrive so that you have a bunch
of high people walking around (or worse, driving) on the street.  If you
are at a venue where you have to do a search for legal reasons, make it a
cursory one."

Security is more important as a deterrent, than anything else.  Maybe as far as a
small underground event goes... sure searching everyone is a bit excessive, but at a
larger event its mandatory.  Security is there to protect the guests.  That is their
job, and when organized properly, at an organized event,  they compliment the party
In more ways than anyone ever notices.   In addition... there is a enormous
liability at an event for promoters, that having a security crew reduces.
Searching people, sets a tone at the party that not everything is accepted here.

any ways.. I don't think tat many people are still following this thread, so Mark,
why don't you reply to me privately if you want to continue this discussion.   Keep
it real    Vlad

Starchild wrote:

> Dear Vlad,
>
>         Hi again!  My responses are below...
>
> >Hi Starchild... Man....You Wrote a whole lot ... I don't even know were to
> >begin.  You just made so may good points.  After reading what you wrote,
> >It gives
> >me a good understanding of your impression of what a party is in your
> >opinion.  I
> >think that the biggest difference is that when I wrote what I did, I was coming
> >from the perspective of a Massive event, and a purely business
> >perspective.  But
> >the majority of your comments seemed like they were reflective of a smaller and
> >more UG party perspective.  This difference in reference makes me completely
> >agree with what you wrote, when I evaluate it from your perspective.
>
>         Thank you for your kind words.  I'm happy that I've communicated my
> thoughts well.  Interesting what you say... are we like the blind men
> feeling the elephant?
>
>         Anyway, addressing the distinction you make between large
> commercial parties and small non-commercial ones, I'll say this for
> large-scale promoters:  A massive is by its nature much harder to put on
> than a small underground event, and you have to take more care to produce a
> good vibe.  I don't doubt it was easier when raving was new and the rave
> hadn't become as much of a formula, but we can still do it.  And it's
> definitely worth doing!  I love a good massive, they have been some of my
> favorite events.
>
>         Now I assume you've read my previous posts and know how I feel
> about producing raves as "entertainment for a living," so I won't go into
> that all over again.  But you also say that you and other promoters of
> large events do what you do because you enjoy bringing people together for
> a positive and memorable experience.
>
>         If you ("you" being promoters of massives) strongly value this
> aspect of what you do, and feel that without providing this aspect you
> wouldn't be comfortable making money by throwing parties, then I see some
> hope for you.  8)
>
>         Kidding aside, I think by changing a few things, most at little or
> no cost, one can greatly improve the vibe and reputation of large-scale
> events.  More on this below...
>
> >In my Opinion, There is this VERY large separation when it comes to throwing
> >smaller parties for the fun and the music, compared to producing entertainment
> >for a living.   I try as hard as I can to incorporate both aspects into my
> >life,
> >and my work.  But In this case, because The thread was regarding massive's... I
> >was coming from a very industry viewpoint, and not so much a community
> >viewpoint
> >as you were.  That is one of the big difference between UG and
> >Massives...(in my
> >VERY generalized definition) is that UG's thrive on the community support, and
> >Massive's utilize Industry resources.   Now this is in no way an exact
> >definition
> >by any means, but it is a prime factor in the obvious nature of the two
> >distinct
> >operations.    In any case, It would be hard to throw any party without both
> >aspects.  But the biggest difference between community and industry, is that
> >while community is public domain information... Industry information is
> >proprietary.
>
>        If events came clearly labeled as either "community" or "industry",
> I think I would agree with this.  But as it stands, there is too much
> overlap -- as you say, "it would be hard to throw any party without both
> aspects."
>
>         Because the rave community draws its sustanence from goodwill and
> cooperation, rather than competition, marketing parties to ravers for a
> profit is a direct drain on the psychic resources of the community.  Every
> time this kind of drain occurs, the scene loses some positivity.
>
>         I'll admit I'm not entirely satisfied with this answer myself --
> consider it a working hypothesis until my reasoning catches up with my
> intuition (as if!).  8)
>
> >What was happening here with this thread is that the community was inquiring
> >about industry information, that from a business perspective should not be the
> >communities concern.    Below you brought up that I posted info About or
> >Finances
> >after the SPIRIT of giving party on Thanksgiving...  I did, and I did so,
> >because
> >the nature of that party was a Community Benefit for the Homeless, and I
> >said IN
> >ADVANCE that I would inform the Community about the amount of the donation
> >after
> >all figures were calculated, and true to my word I posted them.  But If someone
> >would to ask me to post my financial record after an event... I would
> >never even
> >consider it.   I have always posted, and plan to continue to inform this
> >community of any contribution that is made after our events, because I
> >know that
> >this community helped make that donation possible, but I will not justify it..
> >because that is my business, and not the communities.  There is an old saying
> >that goes something like this: "If you let everyone know your business...
> >Eventually, you have no business of your own"  Well it's the same thing
> >here....We all need to have our secrets.  It's what makes us individuals.   And
> >in addition... If YOU were Nomad... and You were reading these angry and
> >Hateful
> >posts... would you want to give out financial information that can be
> >forwarded,
> >by any disgruntled raver to anywhere on the net????  Think about it???  I sure
> >wouldn't.  There are a lot of issues involved here... and anything that is
> >posted
> >is something that can possibly be used against you.. just like this post... I
> >doubt that everyone will read it with the understanding of where I was coming
> >from when I wrote it... but that's the nature of this list.  It is
> >something you
> >learn to deal with... is having people misunderstand you by fitering out your
> >perspective... and the meaning gets misinterperted... no matter how hard
> >you may
> >try.
> >
> >I love Raving, and I love organizing parties... not just because I have a
> >vision
> >to fulfill, but because I enjoy knowing that something that I do has the
> >potential to bring people together, and possibly give them a very good and
> >memorable experience that they may cherish for some time.  And If you ask any
> >promoter... Nomad, Space Children, Cool world, Ghost tribe, Bagok... or
> >any other
> >promoter that has taken MUCH heat from this list... You will get a VERY similar
> >answer.
>
>         Vlad, what you say sounds very reasonable.  I would like to believe
> it, yet... there are too many things I notice about too many parties that
> just don't square with promoters having a primary objective of bringing
> people together for a good experience.  Of course it hardly needs
> mentioning that few people are going to *admit* to being primarily
> motivated by money, power, or ego if asked, so one can only look at their
> actions.
>
>         Two ingredients under "actions" are key to producing good vibe,
> imho, and these apply just as much to promoters doing events for a living
> as to those doing it out of love for the scene:
>
>                 (1) honesty
>                 (2) friendliness
>
>         Honesty (or lack of it) is communicated by the massive promoter in
> many ways.  For starters, your flyers and voicemail messages should list
> the cost of your event -- both pre-sale price and door price, if these
> differ.  (One lesson I've learned from my years of raving is that if they
> don't mention what the cover will be, you can expect it to be on the high
> side.)
>
>         If your location is permitted and you expect the event to go off
> bust-free, let people know where it is, so they can better plan their
> evening.  If you fear drawing unwanted attention, at least give a general
> location, like the city or part of town.
>
>         Then there's the obvious -- if someone isn't scheduled to play at
> your event, for example, don't advertise that they'll be there, and if
> you've made a deal with someone, try your best to honor it.
>
>         Everyone has bad luck sometimes, and everyone makes mistakes.  If
> it happens to you, be upfront about it and explain exactly what happened.
> If it was something major, like a big act cancelling on you who many people
> may have come to see, offer refunds.  Chances are your apology will be
> well-received by people who appreciate good vibe, and may actually benefit
> you in the long-run.
>
>         Okay, what about friendliness?  Again, there's a lot one can do to
> be friendly, and the good news is, most of it doesn't cost a dime.
>
>         Flyer design says a lot, as does the tone of the person recording
> your voice-mail message and their choice of words.  My advice would be to
> seek beauty and creativity, perhaps try to evoke a smile.  If you design
> your flyers and messages with the objective of impressing people with how
> "cool" your party is going to be, as appears to be the case with many
> flyers and messages, you've probably succeeded in making the party *less*
> cool than it would have been otherwise due to the image you're projecting.
>
>         Important, important, important: Make sure the security people at
> your event are friendly and non-intrusive!  If the venue insists on
> providing their own people, or you have to work with cops (heaven forbid),
> talk to them beforehand and make sure you have people who are going to be
> cool, or request different personnel.  Thuggish security is a huge
> vibe-killer, and the safety benefits are dubious.  I've read about numerous
> cases where people have gotten shot at nightclubs after altercations with
> security.
>
>           And I know some people will disagree with this, but I don't think
> anything is accomplished by searching people at the door.  If you're trying
> to confiscate weapons, well, give a person the benefit of the doubt --
> maybe they're carrying because they have to walk home through a rough
> neighborhood, not because they want to make trouble inside.  Drugs?  I'd
> rather a person be allowed to bring whatever it is inside and take it
> there, than have them imbibing before they arrive so that you have a bunch
> of high people walking around (or worse, driving) on the street.  If you
> are at a venue where you have to do a search for legal reasons, make it a
> cursory one.
>
>         Part of being friendly is trying to anticipate people's needs, and
> attempting to meet on the spot those needs you haven't anticipated.  Having
> an obvious place for people to go in an emergency, providing some kind of a
> coat check (if you're going to charge extra for this, or if you're going to
> sell water when there's no free water available, these things should be
> revealed upfront under "costs", imho), doing periodic sound checks so
> people won't ruin their hearing, having some earplugs available, etc.
>
>         It won't take a bite out of your budget to greet people with a
> smile and maybe a hug at the door.  Fresh fruit and bread in the morning
> isn't free, but it's relatively inexpensive.
>
>         It also costs nothing to have an opening and a closing ceremony.
> Carefully choreographed ceremonies could be hard to pull off at a massive,
> but there's still lots of possibilities.  Take the microphone and ask
> everyone to reach out and and hold the hands of people nearby them for a
> few moments of silence, for example.  Or instead of someone from the crew
> speaking, pick some happy and energetic-looking ravers to come up and
> briefly share their experiences of the evening.
>
>         Finally, take some time to get feedback and appreciate the
> temporary autonomy you've conjured up.  Walk around and ask people if
> they're having a good time, explaining that you're the promoter and you
> want to hear their ideas about the party.  Chances are, if you've done good
> by them in the above areas, you will get the support and appreciation
> you've been looking for, in oodles!
>
>         Many ravers love to help out, given the chance.  If they're treated
> with respect, and not simply as free labor, it will make them feel like
> participants.  Rather than hiring people to do clean-up and figuring that
> into what you charge at the door, ask for volunteers to stay after the
> party.
>
>         I would think that by putting the word out in advance, you can get
> many services taken care of, or at least discounted, by barter (i.e. --
> okay, you bring the sound system, I'll let in you and 10 of your friends
> for free and give you free t-shirts).  Then you find a clothing vendor and
> let them have a booth in exchange for 10 shirts or something.  The
> possibilities are virtually endless...
>
>         ...but I'll leave off for now.  I don't want you to get the idea
> I'm trying to tell you how to run your parties or anything.  ;)
>
> Much love,
>                                 <<< Starchild >>>
>
>                                         8)
>
>        <<< <<< Free vibe-consultation services and hugs on request! >>> >>>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 01:59:51 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:00:01 -0800
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i'm back hoo~hah!
while i was down south, i checked out two parties...

*SUGAR* was amazing! put on by <Cande Productions> props to them for  
putting together such an awesome event
my fave moments were listening to
<<Jason Blackmore>> and especially <<Jasen>> i think he's from Santa 
Barbara, wowie, what at set!
<<Jamie Thinnes>> from <Jujubeats> [i think] ended the evening nicely
a fairly good vibe, but my heart is here in SF ;) 

New Year's Eve i attended *ENCORE* well it started off miserably, and 
ended up great thanks to a cute guy named Guillermo from Argentina, no 
he wasn't a dj spinning, he just made my heart spin, ANYWAYS, let me 
describe to you the horrible way people were treated before getting in 
the party cost $35, ouch, but hey it was New Year's, the event was 
held at the Orange Show Fairgrounds.
boys and girls were SEPARATED, two lines, so everybody immediately 
lost who they were with, including myself, ack!
the following items were _not_ allowed to bring in...
no candy [no ring pops, no blow pops, no pez, get this NO GUM] ack!
and 50% of my bag was candy :(
no contact lense rewetting drops [like i'd put GHB in my eyeballs]
no chaplipstick [who knows]
no whistle
no pepperspray [ok i sortof figured that one]
at this point i wanted to attack the female security guard with 
glitter and hugs [not really]
no vicks
so me and another girl walked back to my car to dump off our stuff so 
we wouldn't have to throw it away
get inside at 11pm one hr to countdown
i watched/listened to the following... 

in Celestial Seance room...
*THEE-O* 2x4 Tony Gamboa pure techno, everybody "raves" about Thee-0 
for a reason!

outside on the platform Creatures of the Shade [d+b]
*MARVELOUS CAIN* wonderful UK style w/ live MC "rewind...rewind"
we cheered for the cheerish bomb~ass~bass~beat to kick in

in Soular de Escalator room...
*LARS* remember the Berlin dj on MTV Real World London?? yup! not 
impressive, some good tracks though.
MY ULTIME FAVORITE 
****SIMPLY JEFF****ROCKED THE HOUSE AND MY WORLD!!!
THAT BOY CAN SCRATCH!!!he's the whole reason i chose this party.
the Happy Core room, Peckatron, was iNsAnE, great phun, i thought the 
speakers would fall w/ so many kids all over 'em ;)

at 2am, Guille and i ran back in forth between 
*JASON BLAKEMORE* aka dj Trance and
*HOSCHI* from Germany pure techno in the other room

3am...
*HYPERACTIVE* from Chicago/La
4am
*STEVE LORIA*
5am
*REZA vs dj kam*
6am zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Thanks to the following Socal pEEps aka "scrubbers"
*General E* and friends for driving to my house from San Diego. 
Spinangst, Max Alert, George Tseng, Uncle Noah, Thee-O, SUPERBEAN 
pEEps, the Dave, Cande pEEps.  If you're ever up in SF ya got my addy!
huggies absorb more PLUR,
Elena

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:25:13 1998
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From: Scott Nelson <drenalin@salinas.net>
To: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
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Subject: Re: The New Law...
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The new smoking law isn't quite what you might think it is.  It only
applies to venues that have employees, and it is complaint driven.
Promoters should check it out, many of them might not be affected by the
law.  Actual clubs may be suspect, but one-off venues will probably be
quite easy to get out from any actual problems.

scott 


On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, SugeR wrote:

> Hello all.. 
> 
> i would like to bring up a point that seems to have been forgotten... 
> 
> i understand the new NON-Smokin law has gone into affect....
> 
> now.. i have no prollems going outside to smoke... 
> 
> but what do we do if the party won't let me out to have a cigarette....
> 
> i have to hide in the bathroom like i was in high school again... 
> 
> any one got any suggestions... 
> 
> **Promoters.. just let folks KNOW that it is going to be a NON-Smoking
> Party.. and you aint going to let us folks out to smoke... **
> 
> at least with the information ... i can choose a different party... 
> 
> Peace and Stuff... 
> 
> -SugeR
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:27:19 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:26:39 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Phunky Cancerian <bodac@bodac.com>
Subject: Happy Kids!!! Oooooh La La (Not too long:)
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Peeps,

OK, so my phone was off the hook most of the night!!! No one could get
through to me 'cause I was lost in the muzac. Huh, and I had to keep
running back and forth, up and down the stairs. Why? Because the music was
soooo good in both places that I couldn't make up my fricken mind! I tried
to stand at the middle of the stairs...but that didn't work too well, it
only really confused my body hearing Mars&MysterE in one ear...and Carlos
in the other!@

Marty...U rock boy!!! Not only do you throw a PhAT partE, but you kick-ass
on the turntables :) Yea, and U Jeremy B. I looked at you...groovin' to
Marty's set..I wuz really, seriously afraid your eyeballs were gonna pop
right out! Damn, you were havin' a good time!

Jeremy (Asian version, forgive me - I think, and one of the party helpers),
you are a bomb pEEp, I do have your lights. The bicycle lights you let me
dance with for a while. I am soooooo sorry I coudn't find you to give them
back. Well, you'll be happy to know that they are in a very safe
place...and I really want to get them back to you. Soooo...if someone who
is reading this (or Jeremy himself is) please let him know that I want to
get them back to him!!! Thanks for the trip bro :)

Has anyone seen OSCAR? He's a purple octopus. Yea I know it sounds funny
but he's really cute...and the best part is he vibrates. Yea he's a
massager with his tentacles. Last I knew he was playing with Joe....a guy I
met from Daly City. Kewl kid! But from there....as it was being passed
around the dance floor...he got lost. Soooo...if anyone knows of his
whereabouts....please take care of him until he is returned :) THankX

DAVIS CREW - you folks are Phresh - I saw Seany (hugs and kisses, my bud),
Satkriya (oh so sweet), Mara (yo groove thang) and all the other 20 or so
of you there!!! Sorry I can't remember all you pEEP'z names. I need to meet
more of you:) Thanks for the back scratches Satkriya!!!!!! WOW :()

All you other dopE kids there I met - JoE, Chris, Camron, Baby HuEY and is
BOY, Jen, Chad (yea I remember you from Halloween:)).  Awe can't wait to
see you all again! :)

The oranges....I've never had more sweeter oranges in my life. Dawg-on-it
they were oh so tastie!!!

Karma2001 - thank you soooooo much for the bubbles....I was wondering where
they were coming from. I went to look....but it seemed as though I kept
getting pulled back to the speakers....so I never found you. I'm glad you
got obsessed with blowing the bubbles :)

I hope that all you pEEps out there had a chance to grab a bottle of
Odwalla juice. We brought a bunch for you. If not....well, let me know what
you like...and I'll be extra doubly sure to put your name on one for next
time. Well, that is of course if Marty let's us bring it again!!!@

Warm hugs and love,

Steve-o-matic
The Phunky Cancerian

PS - One other oh so small thing...I wish all p-E-z dispEnsErs whErE truEly
honEst about what thEy dispEnsE to us pEEps. Catch my drift??

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:29:45 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:32:22 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980113182236.20126A-100000@sugarbeet.salinas
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Not if they don't let you out... 

or let you smoke... 

-SugeR

btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$ to go to
a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just give us
the Scoop... 

:)


At 06:25 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>The new smoking law isn't quite what you might think it is.  It only
>applies to venues that have employees, and it is complaint driven.
>Promoters should check it out, many of them might not be affected by the
>law.  Actual clubs may be suspect, but one-off venues will probably be
>quite easy to get out from any actual problems.
>
>scott 
>
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, SugeR wrote:
>
>> Hello all.. 
>> 
>> i would like to bring up a point that seems to have been forgotten... 
>> 
>> i understand the new NON-Smokin law has gone into affect....
>> 
>> now.. i have no prollems going outside to smoke... 
>> 
>> but what do we do if the party won't let me out to have a cigarette....
>> 
>> i have to hide in the bathroom like i was in high school again... 
>> 
>> any one got any suggestions... 
>> 
>> **Promoters.. just let folks KNOW that it is going to be a NON-Smoking
>> Party.. and you aint going to let us folks out to smoke... **
>> 
>> at least with the information ... i can choose a different party... 
>> 
>> Peace and Stuff... 
>> 
>> -SugeR
>> 
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:32:59 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:29:52 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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Just a few points I wish to comment on.

SugeR wrote:

> **Promoters.. just let folks KNOW that it is going to be a NON-Smoking
> Party.. and you aint going to let us folks out to smoke... **
>
> at least with the information ... i can choose a different party...

Some facts to be aware of.

1.  Smoking is not allowed in venues that are LICENSED as a Cabaret.
2.  This includes places like :  Maritime Hall, The Truckadero, Big Hart
City, 1015 Folsom.... etc.
3.  Most warehouses and warehouse parties are NOT licensed as cabarets...
therefor you can still smoke in them... without braking the law.
4.  Most clubs and bars DO NOT CARE about this law... So what's the
difference.
5.  This law is a good reason to stop smoking.

And finally I just have this to bring up:   Don't smokers also have to
breathe the same second hand smoke that non smokers breathe.  So what's the
point of all those stupid radio commercials trying to make it look as if
smokers are ok because they smoke with a filter, and non-smokers are
dropping dead like flies because of the second hand smoke????   I don't get
it.

Keep it Real...   Vlad


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:34:29 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:32:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
cc: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>, fafol@royalblueny.com,
  San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: so you met my friend freshie 
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hahahahahahahahaha
god i love the fact that this list isn't moderated
*grins*


On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Niels P. Mayer wrote:

> 
> Damn, maybe I should move to NYC. I read Freshie's message and I felt
> an immediate rapport, especially the dissing of PLUR, and those
> candyravers that have turned some of the SF rave scene into some kind
> of cool high-school sosh thing. I wouldn't describe myself as a
> clubkid, but I actually recall that clubkids I hung out with in NYC
> when checking out various places in the mid-late 80's (Palladium (ok,
> so i'm lame), Save the Robots, etc) were actually a lot more open and
> friendly than any candy raver I've ever met. The only way a candy raver
> will show you any PLUR is if you're on the same drugs as they are and
> wearing those godawful lame-ass UGLY raverclothes, glitter, and/or
> stoopid hairdo's whose only purpose is to piss off yer mommies. Really
> no differnet than a pack of izod/polo-wearing fratboys and blazer-chick
> sororitygirls only accepting "their own" and turning up their noses at
> those that aren't just like they are. But I guess when you're 16-20 you
> feel you need a "pack" to run with and you can define "you" by the
> pants you wear, which is pretty shallow, IMHO... I guess that's what I
> like about normal "club" over-21 raves in SF... that you actually feel
> real unity when a bunch of lone-wolves of different 
> backgrounds/races/colors/sexes/orientations/etc get together despite
> their differences and dance. 
> 
> In any case, I saw Freshie's message as OBVIOUSLY humorous, and 
> detecting that humor is definitely not a SF thing or a left coast
> thing. People that didn't notice it probably suffer from that horrible
> brain-inflammation known as PLUR that leaves you as stupid and
> repressed and humorless as the dourest blueblood protestant. Hopefully,
> it's a passing thing. I think it passes rather quickly, like when
> mommie kicks you out of the house and you have to get a job,
> feed/house/clothe yourself and actually function along with
> society/reality and accept/compromise with all the bullshit that real
> life has to offer.
> 
> That's probably what I like about NYC folks. They're real, and the
> realities/harshness they face is what makes them interesting, not 
> their child-like innocence. That's a trait that makes toddlers and
> babies interesting and fun, not adults.
> 
> Also, Dori, I must say, this is classic:
> | now you guys BE NICE and San Franciscan and show freshie a good time.
> | Besides, i remember when I was on sfraves and I heard people making MUCH
> | worse idiots out of themselves than freshie...  i mean hell, remember the
> | girl with the crisis situation because mom couldn't understand the price of
> | jncos and took away her glitter?  come ON folks!
> 
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> ==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: 2.6.3
> 
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> Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1
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> =RUx1
> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:35:21 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:37:57 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
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i also thought that freedom of religion/beliefs were a very cherished
value for the raver... 

am i mistaken... 

-SugeR				


>At 03:18 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>MooK said. . .
>>>I may be new but the last time I checked this was supposed to be a
>>>discussion group about raves and the music and culture and community that
>>>stem from such events.
>>> . . . .
>>>So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST
>>
>>I feel that religion is very intimately related to rave culture and
>>community.  Many people feel that raving fulfills a need for religion in
>>many people.  Other people feel that the views of traditional religions are
>>antithetical to the values ravers endorse.  Personally, I feel almost every
>>issue is/can be related to raves, rave music, rave culture, or rave
>>community in some way.  Everyone has the right to believe what they want,
>>but we also all have the right to discuss why we have rejected other
>>beliefs.  As long as we make an effort not to purposely and gratuitously
>>piss off others on the list, there is no reason why we can't have
>>productive discussions about controversial topics on this list.
>>
>>
>>
>>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:46:56 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:46:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
To: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
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---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
>
> btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$
to go to
> a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
give us
> the Scoop... 
> 
> :)

I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who like
to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying $$ to
go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!

It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if they
have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
Matt.

P.S.
I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not trying
to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
"Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:52:40 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:52:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
To: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
cc: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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The whole point of the "Rave" environment is to have a place where you 
can experience an extreme level of personal and social freedom.  You are 
free to dance crazy, dress crazy, take drugs, not take drugs, not dance 
crazy, not wear clothes at all, etc. etc. etc.

That's kinda one of the backbones of the whole raving philosophy.

So why would people support regulation on any form of personal expression 
or enjoyment at a rave?  If everyone smoked anyway what would happen?

I wonder about this kind of thing sometimes.

IMHO I think that if you're going to a rave you should go with an open 
mind and be ready to experience a little taste of freedom.  Freedom is an 
amazing and frightening thing, but trust me kids, it's better than the 
alternative.


On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Matthew Kodama wrote:

> ---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
> >
> > btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$
> to go to
> > a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
> give us
> > the Scoop... 
> > 
> > :)
> 
> I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who like
> to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying $$ to
> go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!
> 
> It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if they
> have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
> Matt.
> 
> P.S.
> I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not trying
> to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
> "Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:54:03 1998
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:55:42 -0800
From: Raver <raver@digitalmoon.net>
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Why is it that in San Franciscans can no longer smoke in bars, but can
smoke at parties?    What ever happened to the whole conciousness thing?
I though the rave scene was ahead of the club scene in that respect...

Anyone know of any cool no-smoking indoor parties coming up?

Raver @ Digitalmoon.net

Matthew Kodama wrote:

> ---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
> >
> > btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$
> to go to
> > a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
> give us
> > the Scoop...
> >
> > :)
>
> I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who like
> to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying $$ to
> go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!
>
> It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if they
> have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
> Matt.
>
> P.S.
> I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not trying
> to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
> "Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 02:59:14 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:43:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
cc: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>, Sfraves Discussion <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980113151050.27603W-100000@ccnet3>
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here here. byroni's right. 

besides, i enjoy hearing about other peoples' religions, and what they
believe to be true and what they believe to be false, scientific proof or
not.
we're all different., we're all stars, we all shine in our own different
way.

saying we shouldn't talk about religion on the list (which wasn't the
case, as byroni states below) is like saying we shouldn't talk about
anything controversial. 
diversity, including our belleifs, i believe is wonderful, and what keeps
us from being the most boring species on the earth.
xo
lara


On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, *byroni* wrote:

> 
> It's so funny how people can look past the true meaning of things. The
> word RELIGION was used... and my OPINION of people who follow religion
> BLINDLY was used. Nothing more. People freak out too easily. RELAX.
> 
> I will refrain from speaking of topics of much life changing
> significance.... am I really affending you or am I making you question 
> something you are uncomfortable questioning? Because your faith isn't
> that strong... and mommy and daddy can't answer the questions
> themselves.... "Just believe in the bible son... it's right".... uuuh ok.
> 
> Byroni
> 
> ps. Refrain from posting about RELIGION unless raving is your religion???
> I clearly stated that it is a religion for me and many others. I simply
> spoke my mind about sheep and people get upset instead of using
> constructive critism... which is funto hear and feedback.... (private
> e-mail??? anyone)
> 
> I need to get a majordomo server running to start a SPIRITUAL RAVER
> list.... hmmm..
> 
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Mook wrote:
> 
> > I may be new but the last time I checked this was supposed to be a
> > discussion group about raves and the music and culture and community that
> > stem from such events.
> > 
> >  I think discussing sensitive topics such as religion on a forum so diverse
> > as this is not only dangerous, easily turning friends into enemies, but also
> > strays from the purpose and goals we are trying to achieve here, whatever
> > they are they don't involve religion in any way (except for those of you
> > that look at raving as your religion). Comments that tear down and insult
> > different religions are hurtful and maddening. Many people hold their
> > beliefs very sacred, and when somebody goes around and trashes those
> > beliefs, it isn't right. In the future it would probably be a good idea that
> > if you want to discuss religion either take it off the list and onto
> > personal email, or a religious chat room. Using religious examples to make
> > your point is just dangerous and should be avoided.
> > 
> > How would you like it if I started using this list to fill up your mailbox
> > with religious messages trying to convert everybody to my way of thinking.
> > Reguardless of whether my way of thinking is right or wrong everybody has
> > the right to believe what they want. My beliefs do not make me better than
> > anyone and are totally about love, but that does not give me the right to
> > beat somebody over head with those beliefs like a baseball bat.
> > 
> > So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST
> > 
> > THANX,
> > 
> > MooK <><
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> 
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
> 			-me
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 03:08:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:11:30 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
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hmmm.. lets see.. 

i think all i did was ask for the 411 on the situation... 

and for not trying to be sassy... you sure did a good job.. thanx... 

Peace.. Love... & FAMILY!!!!!
-SugeR

At 06:46 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
>>
>> btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$
>to go to
>> a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
>give us
>> the Scoop... 
>> 
>> :)
>
>I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who like
>to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying $$ to
>go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!
>
>It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if they
>have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
>Matt.
>
>P.S.
>I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not trying
>to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
>"Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.
>
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 03:16:12 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:16:12 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980113214045.22842F-100000@linux.announce.co
 m>
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right on.. 

glad to see most of us do.. 

i certainly enjoy and learn from the diversity that is the ''rave'' scene

live and learn... 

-SugeR


At 09:43 PM 1/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>here here. byroni's right. 
>
>besides, i enjoy hearing about other peoples' religions, and what they
>believe to be true and what they believe to be false, scientific proof or
>not.
>we're all different., we're all stars, we all shine in our own different
>way.
>
>saying we shouldn't talk about religion on the list (which wasn't the
>case, as byroni states below) is like saying we shouldn't talk about
>anything controversial. 
>diversity, including our belleifs, i believe is wonderful, and what keeps
>us from being the most boring species on the earth.
>xo
>lara
>
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, *byroni* wrote:
>
>> 
>> It's so funny how people can look past the true meaning of things. The
>> word RELIGION was used... and my OPINION of people who follow religion
>> BLINDLY was used. Nothing more. People freak out too easily. RELAX.
>> 
>> I will refrain from speaking of topics of much life changing
>> significance.... am I really affending you or am I making you question 
>> something you are uncomfortable questioning? Because your faith isn't
>> that strong... and mommy and daddy can't answer the questions
>> themselves.... "Just believe in the bible son... it's right".... uuuh ok.
>> 
>> Byroni
>> 
>> ps. Refrain from posting about RELIGION unless raving is your religion???
>> I clearly stated that it is a religion for me and many others. I simply
>> spoke my mind about sheep and people get upset instead of using
>> constructive critism... which is funto hear and feedback.... (private
>> e-mail??? anyone)
>> 
>> I need to get a majordomo server running to start a SPIRITUAL RAVER
>> list.... hmmm..
>> 
>> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Mook wrote:
>> 
>> > I may be new but the last time I checked this was supposed to be a
>> > discussion group about raves and the music and culture and community that
>> > stem from such events.
>> > 
>> >  I think discussing sensitive topics such as religion on a forum so
diverse
>> > as this is not only dangerous, easily turning friends into enemies,
but also
>> > strays from the purpose and goals we are trying to achieve here, whatever
>> > they are they don't involve religion in any way (except for those of you
>> > that look at raving as your religion). Comments that tear down and insult
>> > different religions are hurtful and maddening. Many people hold their
>> > beliefs very sacred, and when somebody goes around and trashes those
>> > beliefs, it isn't right. In the future it would probably be a good
idea that
>> > if you want to discuss religion either take it off the list and onto
>> > personal email, or a religious chat room. Using religious examples to
make
>> > your point is just dangerous and should be avoided.
>> > 
>> > How would you like it if I started using this list to fill up your
mailbox
>> > with religious messages trying to convert everybody to my way of
thinking.
>> > Reguardless of whether my way of thinking is right or wrong everybody has
>> > the right to believe what they want. My beliefs do not make me better
than
>> > anyone and are totally about love, but that does not give me the right to
>> > beat somebody over head with those beliefs like a baseball bat.
>> > 
>> > So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST
>> > 
>> > THANX,
>> > 
>> > MooK <><
>> > 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
>> or...
>> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
>> 
>> 
>> (byroni)
>> TheSPACEcowboy
>> 
>> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>> 			-me
>> 
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 03:24:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:42:18 -0800
From: just jer <jer@best.com>
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hey.... I'm looking for a cheap place to live in the south bay. me and
my friend brian. we have good jobs, and aren't losers! =)

we're good people =)

room for rent, cheap apartments, shared housing, blah blah blah.

heeeeeeeellllllppppp! thanx, have a good one!

e-mail: jer@best.com
pgr: 408.948.3318

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 03:35:57 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:21:45 -0800
To: ldylove@juno.com (Rebecca L Cardennis), sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: BSP-all those that goth
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At 3:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, Rebecca L Cardennis wrote:
>This goes out to all those that like to go to goth clubs.  I am sure that
>most people are familiar with Radericks's Chamber at the X on tuesday
>nights well this tuesday it will be at the Sound Factory and if it does
>well will continue to be there.
>
>Instead of being Roderick's Chamber at the X, it is House of Usher at the
>Sound Factory.  Tuesday night, doors at 9 (I believe) ...
>
>See, it's like this:  Peter, Shawni, and X used to promote House of
>Usher,
>which was the main goth club in SF.  Then Peter split off to do other
>things (A Winter Gone By, Europa, Cyberden), and Shawni and X eventually
>opened Roderick's Chamber.  Now they're contemplating getting back
>together
>to do Usher ... for now it's a "Roderick's Chamber and the Cyberden
>present:" sort of thing, but if it goes well they'll do it instead of
>Roderick's, and at the new location (Sound Factory, 1st & Howard, across
>the street and 1/2 block down from the Maritime Hall).
>
>I won't be there this tuesday considering I am way out in freezing
>Colorado right now, but I sure will be there next week.
>
>if things go well and they stay at the new location there will be an
>experimental kind of chill area on the top floor in the near future

How many of you out there used to go to House of Usher at that place in
Albany all those years ago?

How about Drug #6 at 650 Howard before (and during) that?

crusty old goth/industrials, out of the closet now!

:-)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 03:38:36 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:38:22 -0800
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From: utopia <utopia@cwia.com>
Subject: Tell us about your religion
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Remember the "Tell us about yourself" string of messages last month?  One
thing not included was religion.  What is everyone's religion?



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 03:43:18 1998
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Subject: tonite: The Glad Hand 02 support your fellow SFRavers
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tonite!!!

your fellow SF Ravers DJ Radon (spinning jungle) and Skoop (live) will
be doing their stuff at the Glad Hand tonight at Justice League, 628
Divisadero, $5, 21+, 9p-2a.

Also on the bill,
Halou (live)
Junior Varsity KM (live)
DJ Monkey

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 03:54:46 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:53:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
cc: Rebecca L Cardennis <ldylove@juno.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: BSP-all those that goth
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-->Hey peeps!

	I'ma'gonna'b'there tonite so if you wanna see this lidda
buddahflye wearing different wings look for black velvet, white ruffles,
Louis XV hair, and a whole lota white powder :)))
	I am soooo excited, I haven't been to a goth club in ages (except
for Helter Skelter in LA this past Holidaze break, which doesn't
count)...I hope my make-up is gonna last. Oh, and yeah, the Troc's
Bondage'a'No'Go is definitively out and has been so for a very long time.
I can't believe the security would hassle a guy in the girl's loo...all
true goths know that the powder room is what the sitting and drawing room
was of yesteryear and gender segregation is not to be tolerated.


:)
M&m


On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Wayne wrote:

> At 3:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, Rebecca L Cardennis wrote:
> >This goes out to all those that like to go to goth clubs.  I am sure that
> >most people are familiar with Radericks's Chamber at the X on tuesday
> >nights well this tuesday it will be at the Sound Factory and if it does
> >well will continue to be there.
> >
> >Instead of being Roderick's Chamber at the X, it is House of Usher at the
> >Sound Factory.  Tuesday night, doors at 9 (I believe) ...
> >
> >See, it's like this:  Peter, Shawni, and X used to promote House of
> >Usher,
> >which was the main goth club in SF.  Then Peter split off to do other
> >things (A Winter Gone By, Europa, Cyberden), and Shawni and X eventually
> >opened Roderick's Chamber.  Now they're contemplating getting back
> >together
> >to do Usher ... for now it's a "Roderick's Chamber and the Cyberden
> >present:" sort of thing, but if it goes well they'll do it instead of
> >Roderick's, and at the new location (Sound Factory, 1st & Howard, across
> >the street and 1/2 block down from the Maritime Hall).
> >
> >I won't be there this tuesday considering I am way out in freezing
> >Colorado right now, but I sure will be there next week.
> >
> >if things go well and they stay at the new location there will be an
> >experimental kind of chill area on the top floor in the near future
> 
> How many of you out there used to go to House of Usher at that place in
> Albany all those years ago?
> 
> How about Drug #6 at 650 Howard before (and during) that?
> 
> crusty old goth/industrials, out of the closet now!
> 
> :-)
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 04:07:04 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:06:02 +0100
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>Giles wrote>
>Hi phressssiiieeee

  Hiya Freshie. I'm from Chicago, and I can identify with a shit-talking
city boy. Just so you know: SF is kind of a weird place. It's very hip but
at the same time it's kind of provincial. People don't always seem to
understand sarcasm or attitude here.
  (PS - you probably don't really want to check out the Mother Lode. It's
for folks with extremely specific tastes.)
 
Freshie,
you probably DO want to check out the motherlode, it's a transexual, 
transvestite bar and it's a blast. You don't need extremely specific tastes to 
appreciate  the kinker side that this city has to offer, just an open mind 
and respect (and a liking for house and disco). It's not so "provincinal" as 
some other places and not full of people trying so hard to be king and queen 
of the scene...well at least not king!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 04:12:39 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:09:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Scott Nelson <drenalin@salinas.net>
cc: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: The New Law...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980113182236.20126A-100000@sugarbeet.salinas.net>
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... unless the security guards are hired by the venue.
:)

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Scott Nelson wrote:

> 
> The new smoking law isn't quite what you might think it is.  It only
> applies to venues that have employees, and it is complaint driven.
> Promoters should check it out, many of them might not be affected by the
> law.  Actual clubs may be suspect, but one-off venues will probably be
> quite easy to get out from any actual problems.
> 
> scott 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, SugeR wrote:
> 
> > Hello all.. 
> > 
> > i would like to bring up a point that seems to have been forgotten... 
> > 
> > i understand the new NON-Smokin law has gone into affect....
> > 
> > now.. i have no prollems going outside to smoke... 
> > 
> > but what do we do if the party won't let me out to have a cigarette....
> > 
> > i have to hide in the bathroom like i was in high school again... 
> > 
> > any one got any suggestions... 
> > 
> > **Promoters.. just let folks KNOW that it is going to be a NON-Smoking
> > Party.. and you aint going to let us folks out to smoke... **
> > 
> > at least with the information ... i can choose a different party... 
> > 
> > Peace and Stuff... 
> > 
> > -SugeR
> > 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 04:15:53 1998
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Subject: Culture (was Re: Why Rave)
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, *byroni* wrote:

<snip>

> > called sterotyping.  Just as people rave for many different reasons, so do
> > those practicing religion.  Some enjoy the ritulas practiced; others may
> > simply prefer to worship with their community.  Tradition, alone, may be
> > their motivation.  Tradition is what keeps cultures together.  Societies
> > are based upon culture.  Culture is based on tradtions and rituals.
> 
> I would say that our society lacks culture... and is too seperated between
> the lines of races, nationality, religion.... Just look at Oakland for
> instance.... I feel comfortable here... but for what reason??? Perhaps
> because there are more minorities and we're more accepting of eachother
> because we've always been minorities.... not of the majority. We're at the
> other side of the table... aware of ignorance and hate. When there is no
> reason for such things.... because if you sit down and think, there is no
> logic between loving and hating someone depending on their skin color or
> national origin..... 

-->Why does everyone think that American society lacks culture? I admit
that there are strong regional characteristics present but as a whole, the
nation shares a "pop" culture that has been successefully marketed to the
rest of the world.  If nothing else, the old cliche of rock music and jazz
as American music can be correlated with "classical" as European music and
seikh music as Indian, etc.  Did you know car culture sprung up from the
Americas as well as the poop tube?  I still remember the many Germans (as
well as other Europeans) I met in Europe that felt no obligation to visit
the US because they felt that imported television programs like Melrose
Place, Baywatch, ER, etc. were sufficient indicators of US life and times.
Would you define yourself as a character from Beverly Hills 90210 or
Dallas? Well, too bad, because the rest of the world sure is. But the
knife cuts both ways...just like many Americans think that Germans are
defined by Sauerkraut, Oktoberfest, Black Forest cake, Lederhosen, and
beer; too bad those stereotypes only apply to some parts of southern
Germany and not the rest of the  country. Stereotypes result from a
misunderstanding of the truth, and if the pure abundance of American
cultural stereotypes is any indication, believe me, the US is not lacking
in culture. 
	Maybe it is better to start a discussion over culture by first
defining the term, but I can't, because to me, culture is impossible to
define and only worth the sum of its parts. But back to American culture,
I will give you a couple of concrete examples: Hollywood & movies, Elvis
Presley and Michael Jackson, Cowboys and Beachbunnies, Las Vegas and
Miami, Jackson Pollack and Jack Karouak, NASA and the Hydorgen bomb
Muhammed Ali and Michael Jordan, and the list goes on, but more often than
not, there is a common thread and that thread is as green as the currency
lining the seat of your trousers. If nothing else, America's culture is
tied with money and money is what fuels the American dream and opens the
doors to the White House and the gates of the Maritime Hall. 
	Oh come on Byroni, I know you don't actively subscribe to what you
just said about Oakland and minorities? Minoroties are not more accepting
of other minorities and they do not tend to show a common front to the
"enemy".  If the LA riots were any proof, blacks and koreans in that
locale have been uncomfortable bedbuddies for some time. Minoroties are
people and people will always be people and that means that they will
always be suspicious of folks that look different from them. Do you know
how difficult it would be for a black person to marry into a traditional
asian family--not to mention "other" asians? Prejudice, racism, and
discrimination _are_ colorblind because they can be found in all people of
every nationality to some degree. I hate hypocrisy; especially if it is
within myself, but I think it is better that I know what or whom I am
prejudiced against and deal with it, instead of lie to the world and tell
it that I am accepting of everybody...because I know I don't. 


:)
M&m

> 
> Tradition is a continual loop of an act of way of thinking... simply
> because it has happened before. We need to PROGRESS... and move away from
> traditions that are unbenefitial to the collective... and having
> traditions that lack this aspect is horrible... but people will not change
> because it is a "Tradition" that their family practices... and things need
> to change for change to take place.
> 
> > Religion is nothing without ritual.  Religion and culture is so
> > intertwined, the distinction is often impossible to make.
> > 
> 
> I don't agree. (if you're thinking of religion as Catholisism, etc)  I
> think that most people these days do not have a REAL religion and choose to 
> not focus on death and the like. Because they see religions as their only
> real choice... when if they followed their own beliefs they would see that 
> they trully have and can create their own way of living.... which could be
> their own form of religion. Religion that is unbenificial to the community
> is evident.... a lot of religions tell you and make you think that you're
> HIGHER than others.. when in reality you're not. Thinking that you're
> higher makes you lower... we are all the same. Some of us know the truth
> that we feel and some do not. But we're all the same. 
> 
> > I am by no means saying that you or anyone else should run out and join up
> > with their local church.  I am simply requesting a bit more repsect of
> > others when it comes to discussion your personal religion of raving.
> > 
> 
> I'm respecting the church/religion enough to bring the topic into the open
> and share my opinions. I respect and love people and would like to say
> what i have to say. What benefit do I gain by babble like I do...? None.
> In fact I set myself up for arrows... but I have to tell you what's on my
> mind and what i belive in so strongly. I want others to do the same and I
> challenge you to do so. You've got fingers and a mind.. use them instead
> of lurking.... :)
> 
> 
> Sheep... baahh.. That's not what I meant. I was using the word "sheep" to
> describe what i feel is someone that is unable to make their own choices, 
> do not believe
> in their own feelings, and  and *must* return to a place where they are *told* 
> what to believe... (because they are conscience that they will go to
> hell if they don't go to Church... regardless if they are good or bad) 
> that they are bad, sinners, and should give their *soul*.... your soul is who 
> you are (or actually a balance between the flesh and the soul is who youa 
> re here... in my opinion), and to give yourself,your purpose, so blindly
> is ridiculous and self destructive... losing your true identity as you are 
> shifting the
> responsibility and control of your life to a GOD. Just as you wouldn't
> give your soul to evil... (or let a drunk fool drive you home form a
> party) and how GOOD is this *being* that we don't know about until we're
> told of them... shouldn't we *FEEL* GOD...? (GOD is WITHIN) and if you are
> once told and do not FEEL GOD, why would you give your *soul* to it's/his 
> control
> (I've been to church a lot and they are always talking about "giving yourself 
> to GOD, letting him control you.. as you are his servant)... what better
> definition of such a being than a "Sheep"?? A sheep is an animal that
> follows herds, has no real choice  (actually it has a choice, but it
> relies on the decisions of a others and superiors [no one is superior...
> but once you look at someone as a superior you have made yourself a person
> less meaningful and powerful than he/she]  instead of it's
> own...).... and I'm saying that you always have a choice, and if you're 
> dening yourself that
> choice if you don't follow your TRUE feelings... and forget the fear
> factor and find out who you are here.. on earth... regardless if you're a
> "sinner"... what is a sinner anyways??... I think a sinner is someone that
> causes pain to others directly... intentionally.. a sinner isn't someone
> who swears, does drugs, etc....  a good point would be the fact that if
> you're GAY (meaning you choose to love someone of the same sex) you're
> supposed to be going to hell.....   isn't it about LOVE... who said who
> has the right to say who you can love. I have gay friends, and they are
> beautiful(even more beautiful sometimes... just as anyone could be...) as
> the rest of us.... can a RELIGION be so shallow as to set a rule on who you 
> can love?????  strange..... ignorant.... STUPID. 
> 
> > >
> > >By raving being a religion of sorts, a rave is actually more a place of
> > >practice.... where a house, park, etc etc can be the same. You can be
> > >anywhere. The only thing that needs to exist for you to practice, is your
> > >focus on what you're doing and what your purpose is at that moment.
> > >
> > >Raving is about music and pure energy.... about delving deep within
> > >myself, discovering who I am/and who others are even more, placing focus
> > >on my soul. As I place focus on my soul I focus outward to my
> > >brothers and sisters.
> > >
> > >Music  is a voice from within us that is brought to human ears by diligence,
> > >love for music, and love for others... because you want others to *feel*
> > >and *experience* what you do when you hear a particular sound.... that
> > >DEEP House sound.... the tribal elements... drumming... the
> > >percussion... tropical elements....  all culminating into a *place* that
> > >exists within us... something we're remembering from our pasts, or the
> > >pasts of elements around us... on a universal, eternal scale...  even
> > >though we haven't seen this *place* here on earth physically...
> > >it doesn't matter because realistically, there are more places we'll
> > >travel metaphysically then physically in our lifetimes... it doesn't matter
> > >where/how we've seen things, the important thing is that we've *seen*
> > >them....
> > >
> > >I don't think RAVING is quite a fitting word for how I take parties. I
> > >want to come up with a better term for myself. "RAVE" sounds like too much
> > >of a PHYSICAL act. When I'm definately on a different level as I enter
> > >into the deep fog as laser beams dance above me and around me....
telling
> > >me to *be here now* and to place focus here... and let it take me to
> > >where ever I wish to be. "Transcendence".... Heaven on Earth.... created
> > >within my mind (by deep space transmissions from within) and supported by
> > >the electronic elements of man... placed accordingly to create this
> > >*place* that we see and feel, and can now somehow *touch*...
> > >
> > >Raving = A Tribal Gathering of sorts, with people coming for different
> > >reasons, giving different things, taking different things... but hopefully
> > >keeping things in *balance*.... and creating a vibe (collective
> > >conscienceness) that we all are apart of... and by us being apart of it,
> > >itcan be nothing less than beautiful... so if you feel a vibe that is less
> > >enjoyable, give your energy to the collective and you'll see how quickly
> > >things change for the better.
> > 
> > You might be surprised to hear someone use similar words to describe their
> > relgious experiences.  In calling religious people sheep, you are robbing
> > them of their personal experiences and spirituality.  You are assuming they
> > put no emotion or thought into their lives.
> > 
> 
> Religion is everything to people... That's fine. The people who are SHEEP
> are those who are conscience of what they really want, and deny them self
> this. It is my OWN opinion that people who are relgious in this manner are
> sheep..
> because if you follow a religion's true meaning... you realize that each
> one has common meanings... and those elements exist within
> and stem from spirituality... 
> because I think spirituality is simply the underlying meaning within a
> religion.. what makes religions wrong (in my opinion) is how the biases,
> lack of intelligence and ignorance of the "enlightened" one who
> interpreted the messages and wrote the scriptures... because as time
> passes and we become more intelligent, you begin to see through the bs and
> realize how unintelligent and closed minded most religious people really
> are....   I can't tell you how many people I know that go to Church who 
> are the most selfish, racist, closed minded individuals.... 
> 
> > I also find it interesting that you hope to keep raving in *balance*.  Does
> > this balance apply only to your rave world or to the world, at large?
> > Without balance of views, beliefs, and even religions, the world would
> > become a pale, scary place.  Respect is the key to balance.  Respect allows
> > contributions from all groups, not just those who agree with you or
> > understand you.
> > 
> 
> It's not my world. It's the world as I interpret it. And I'm not the only
> one that interprets it this way. nothing on this Earth is MINE. It's
> *ours*... for us to share. I respect everyone, and I accept them... but I
> also have my opinions and I wish they respected mine... but people who are
> so deep into the church don't want to think of spirituality.... because if
> they did, they'd realize how all religion stem from it... and that they
> are theorie.. and that someone wrote the bible.... a HUMAN being..ased on
> feelings... just as I write my own spiritual beliefs.... I think the main
> thing is that spiritual people aren't AFRAID... and religious people
> trully are.. because they constantly need that reasurrance... every
> sunday....   I don't question myself like this because my faith is not
> blind, it's real... I've had experiences and moments that will forever
> keep me at the place I am now... from the moments of being a child and
> *knowing* and *feeling* something more.... something deeper... sitting in
> Church knowing that the messages and ideas were passed on.. and not
> necessary from the horse's mouth... if you have to be TOLD how to believe
> and what to believe in there's a problem... my whole point was just to say
> that I think it's sad that people might live a whole life before realizing
> what they really wanted to do in life and what they wanted to believe....
> it's a choice and freedome we're given.... and we should take advantage
> of... because based on your beliefs and values, you will live your life
> the way you choose....  
> 
> > Respect... that's all I ask.
> > Megan
> > 
> > >
> > >So where's the rain??? :)
> > >
> > >...................... Byroni
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> I love everyone's spirit.... and I'm simply trying to express an idea a
> feeling... a belief... to perhaps make them realize that deep down insdie
> the same ideas and feeling exist for them.. because this isn't something
> I've made up... but have been "reminded of" by something....  everything
> we know was already known, everything we hear has already been heard... we
> just have re-heard it... remembered it.... relived it.... nothing is new.
> 
> No one will fully understand you either... you just have to understand
> yourself and focus energy on that... and try to accept that. But continue
> to live and give....  
> 
> Just as I'm aware that I don't enjoy eating sardines and crakers all day,
> I'm conscious of what I BELIEVE in. What would you do if were brought into
> a sardine and cracker eating family and never said you didn't like what
> you were being forced to eat.... and then when you finally say something
> about it, the rest  of your family comes out and says the same thing...
> and that they hadn't before because they were afraid to be an
> individual... capble of making a decision... because they were never
> given hat opportunity before and don't know how to go about it... but they
> have said it now and with your support and love you can continue to
> respect sardine eaters, but come up with your own snack that you can enjoy
> and share with others....  :)  and now.. I am not on drugs...! I am on
> life...
> 
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> "another deep transmission from spacey byroni!" :)
> 
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
> 			-me
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 04:18:17 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:15:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Raver <raver@digitalmoon.net>
cc: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>, SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: The New Law...
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oh yeah.
ravers are WAY more concious than the club scene - 
so concious that a large sum of them ingest chemicals that they may or may
not know can and probably will fuck up their brain in unimaginable ways.

here's a question: what do you smell like when you leave a party?
for me, whether or not i smoke,  or dance, 
it's sweat and smoke.

ravers have been smoking all this time! doesn't look like they're gonna
stop either. besides i hardly believe that SF would pass a "raver" law.

and the moral of the story is..
second hand sweat stinks.
xo
lara

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Raver wrote:

> Why is it that in San Franciscans can no longer smoke in bars, but can
> smoke at parties?    What ever happened to the whole conciousness thing?
> I though the rave scene was ahead of the club scene in that respect...
> 
> Anyone know of any cool no-smoking indoor parties coming up?
> 
> Raver @ Digitalmoon.net
> 
> Matthew Kodama wrote:
> 
> > ---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$
> > to go to
> > > a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
> > give us
> > > the Scoop...
> > >
> > > :)
> >
> > I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who like
> > to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying $$ to
> > go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!
> >
> > It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if they
> > have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
> > Matt.
> >
> > P.S.
> > I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not trying
> > to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
> > "Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 04:35:05 1998
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From: "elf" <elf@sirius.com>
To: "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: SL1200 dirt cheap!
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:34:29 -0800
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    Okay, I am moving to Australia in a little bit and am selling my SL1200
wih a stanton trackmaster cartridge and 2 stylus' in perfect working
condition for $250!

I'm also selling my LOADED pentium 233 for $1800.

Email all replies to    jon@bridgepath.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 04:40:28 1998
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Subject: Re: The New Law...
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Noah Apodaca wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole point of the "Rave" environment is to have a place where you 
> can experience an extreme level of personal and social freedom.  You are 
> free to dance crazy, dress crazy, take drugs, not take drugs, not dance 
> crazy, not wear clothes at all, etc. etc. etc.

Good point, however, by your same definition, just as they're free to
smoke, I should be free to not have to breathe in the remains of their
smoke? Get how it works? That's the whole issue with smoking and smoking
laws.  What's more important, their freedom to smoke, or my freedom to
breathe clean air and not up my risks of cancer through inhaling
smoke I didn't create, and not smell like smoke after a party which is
taken away from me when they excercise their freedom to smoke.  Does this
mean I or other non-smokers shouldn't go to certain places because people
smoke there? What about people who are allergic to cigarette smoke? Should
they not be allowed to go to certain places either so that smokers can
smoke?  See? It goes on and on, it's not something cut and dry.


> 
> That's kinda one of the backbones of the whole raving philosophy.
> 
> So why would people support regulation on any form of personal expression 
> or enjoyment at a rave?  If everyone smoked anyway what would happen?

Again, see issue above, what if someone's personal expression or enjoyment
is infringed upon by the people smoking?  Do the smokers have more rights
to personal enjoyment than the non-smokers? Or vice versa? Smokers can
still go outside to smoke and experience their freedom to smoke, I can't
go outside to breathe, or I won't be in the rave at all.

> 
> I wonder about this kind of thing sometimes.
> 
> IMHO I think that if you're going to a rave you should go with an open 
> mind and be ready to experience a little taste of freedom.  Freedom is an 
> amazing and frightening thing, but trust me kids, it's better than the 
> alternative.

A taste of freedom at the expense of my own?  There's lots more to both
the freedom, and the smoking issue than you're covering.

Haze

> 
> 
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Matthew Kodama wrote:
> 
> > ---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$
> > to go to
> > > a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
> > give us
> > > the Scoop... 
> > > 
> > > :)
> > 
> > I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who like
> > to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying $$ to
> > go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!
> > 
> > It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if they
> > have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
> > Matt.
> > 
> > P.S.
> > I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not trying
> > to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
> > "Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 


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Reply-To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
To: k bOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com>
cc: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>, "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Raver Parade
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<snip>
> 
> Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > Yeah I get what you're saying, but i mean, we don't hand out pamphlets
> > to kids! I mean like adults & teenagers. People are gonna do drugs
> > either way. It's best that they do them safley than unsafley. That's the
> > idea behind that "Just say KNOW" campaign that I've been seeing drug
> > pamphlets from at all the parties latley.
> > Love,
> > Paul*E*Wog
> >
> > lara at vibe.org wrote:
> > >
> > > this is a cute idea in an ideal world
> > > but do we REALLY want to hand out drug information to people omnn the
> > > streets?
> > > little kids are gonna love the colorful floats and all the candyravers...
> > > if they're handed a poamphlet on drugs..
> > > well anyway
> > > you get my idea.
> > > xo
> > > lara
> > >
> > > On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Everyone!! I got a real neat idea. How about we work something out
> > > > with the city of San Francisco to do a raver parade.
> > > > We get floats with DJs and soud systems on them spinning records.
> > > > We get everyone dressed up or just showing up and all of us walk down
> > > > the streets giving away candy, necklaces, and drug information.
> > > > We pass out flyers with our mission statemnts on them and saying what a
> > > > rave is all about.
> > > > What do you people think???
> > > >
> > > > Love,
> > > > Paul*E*Wog
> > > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
-->I think it would be a HORRIBLE idea.  That is the surest way to
commercialize and kill the sfraves UG scene. It's been done in Berlin and
almost all major cities in Germany as well as spreading to Switzerland.
Truthfully, I can't see any US city supporting the notion cuz the states
are way too anal about the rave and drug scene. Every year the parade in
Berlin gets bigger and worse, but the reason the city keeps on doing it is
because the revenue garnered from hundreds and thousands (approaching a
million) visitors is a major source of income as well as adding "cultural
prestige" to the city. But the downside truly is a hastened death to the
underground party scene. 
	However, if this were a political rally and all these ravers and
clubbers marched on Washington 1 million strong to demonstrate that our
generation is able to rally itself under a cause and demonstrate the power
of the future electorate, I would totally go. Because to tell you the
truth, I don't think our generation gets the respect it deserves, aside
from our purchasing power, that is. 
	Drug flyers at a parade would only be a waste of resources and a
contributor of litter.  They would be more efficient next to stacks of
party flyers at venues or at party juice bars (attached to free
lollipops).


:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 04:56:33 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
cc: Rebecca L Cardennis <ldylove@juno.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: BSP-all those that goth
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Wayne wrote:

> How many of you out there used to go to House of Usher at that place in
> Albany all those years ago?

Thunder Bay. It was in Berkeley.

> How about Drug #6 at 650 Howard before (and during) that?

Guilty. 

> crusty old goth/industrials, out of the closet now!

The only thing that is in the closet is some of the clothes which need a
'dustin off, a 'wearin, and a 'using... :-)




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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
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Saith Wayne;


>How many of you out there used to go to House of Usher at that place in
>Albany all those years ago?
>
>How about Drug #6 at 650 Howard before (and during) that?
>

 Oh I usta hang around the House of Usher... something about watching 
eye surgery and dancing.  ;)

hugz.

Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 05:09:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:09:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: absynthe@sirius.com
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Why Rave
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 absynthe@sirius.com wrote:

> I'm new to the list, and this is my first post.  The threads about Nomad
> and vibe have been churning around in my head, making me think about why I
> rave. Then I went to a very funny party over the weekend.  For the last
> year or so I've mostly gone to raves when I go out, but last Friday one of
> the guys at my work  dragged me along to this party.  I had a great time,
> but it did nothing but reaffirm me in my parting choices:  It was Yuppies
> wall to wall!!  Now I'm not down on yuppies, I've known and loved some.  I
> even imagine that I could be suspected of being one.  But I had forgotten
> what that world is like!

-->Where you by any chance at 1015 Folsom on friday?  Cause no matter what
the theme; be it Nikita, the digital be-in, or something else, 1015 could
either be a funeral or a lumberjack convention at most nights.  


> 
> The first thing I noticed was the colors.  Far too many neatly pressed
> plaid shirts, granted, but most remarkable was that nearly all of the women
> were wearing black (in all honesty, me too).  They looked good, for the
> most part, but so somber.  Ravers just look so much more cheerful!  Maybe
> it is that ravers want to be kids forever, and yuppies just want to grow up.
> 

-->Well, to be a kid forever or to be grown up it is all very sad,
considering how so few people live in the now of their lives but always
wanting to be somewhere else.





> What also struck me was the drinking.  I'm pretty sure now that alcohol is
> my *last* party drug of choice.
> 


-->Oh yeah, I agree most full-heartedly, but I would rather drink than pop
a pill every weekend. Funny really, I become this major jerk after my 7th
drink but I sure do have a good time :) Thank gawd I haven't crossed my
limit any time soon...that gets so messy.




> As I stood at the keg-something I haven't done in more than a few years-
> the guy standing next to me looked down at his red plastic cup and said
> "I've gotta pound three or four of these so I can get shitty."  He was
> already swaying on his feet.
> 
> As I listened to the DJ trainwreck her way through the night and just tried
> to dance, I got stepped on, spilled on, elbowed, leered at and felt up.
> 
> In the worst move of the night I saw some guy actually pick the needle up
> off of the record the DJ was spinning.  The DJ's skill aside, I can't even
> put into words how rude that was.  I'm not sure that more than a few of the
> people there noticed, however.
> 

-->Wait, this doesn't happen at raves?




> Etc. etc. etc.
> 
> I had a lot of fun, however.  I met really nice, interesting people: An
> architect, a graphics designer, someone in Human Resources.  I had several
> fabulous talks on why to love this city.  I met someone who might actually
> be a friend, and others who it would be nice to run into.  By the same
> token, many or all  of the things I have mentioned, both positive and
> negative, could easily happen at a rave.
> 
> But it wasn't the same.
> 
> I'm not going to describe raving--even from only being on this list since
> X-mas (props to Santa for my new modem) I see that *everyone* has their own
> way to feel  a rave.  We all know, deep down somewhere what it is we want
> from a rave, what our "vibe" is, or we wouldn't  keep going and looking for
> it.  When we find it though, it is sheer joy and glory.  That yuppie party,
> that glimpse into a different lifestyle allowed me to see again (or perhaps
> simply more clearly) what it is I can only find at a rave.  To me it is
> nameless, or just too large for mere words, but I know it when I feel it.
> 
> That said, why do *you* rave?
> 
> absynthe@sirius.com
> 
> 
-->I rave for the backrubs, oh and the music too.  I always enjoy meeting
new people and going out with old friends...yeah, the muses of music armed
with Eros give me Terpischore feet to chase the night away :)


:)
M&m 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 05:23:18 1998
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To: Suger@santacruz-ca.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
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To some people raving is their religion....I dont think people will get off
track discussing religion....maybe those of us who are going to discuss
religion can possibly relate their religion to their "raver lifestyle" Just a
thought....<3*MushyB!

<< i also thought that freedom of religion/beliefs were a very cherished
 value for the raver... 
 
 am i mistaken... 
 
 -SugeR				
 
 
 >At 03:18 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
 >>MooK said. . .
 >>>I may be new but the last time I checked this was supposed to be a
 >>>discussion group about raves and the music and culture and community that
 >>>stem from such events.
 >>> . . . .
 >>>So once again PLEASE KEEP RELIGIOUS DICUSSIONS OFF THE LIST
 >>
 >>I feel that religion is very intimately related to rave culture and
 >>community.  Many people feel that raving fulfills a need for religion in
 >>many people.  Other people feel that the views of traditional religions are
 >>antithetical to the values ravers endorse.  Personally, I feel almost every
 >>issue is/can be related to raves, rave music, rave culture, or rave
 >>community in some way.  Everyone has the right to believe what they want,
 >>but we also all have the right to discuss why we have rejected other
 >>beliefs.  As long as we make an effort not to purposely and gratuitously
 >>piss off others on the list, there is no reason why we can't have
 >>productive discussions about controversial topics on this list.
 >> >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 06:39:39 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:38:18 -0800
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Ray Vonie wrote:
> We Are ALL Ravers here.  However, there is
> >a certain creativity that goes into producing an event.  That is the difference
> >between a raver and a producer. 

Wait a minute??? Didn't you just say that we are ALL ravers here??
And now you are saying that we are not ALL ravers and that we are not
ALL producers. I guess that could mean that ALL raver are not producers
and that ALL producers are not ravers right??
Or are we all ravers and there is no such difference between raver &
producer.

-Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 06:42:05 1998
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Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:48:16 -0500
From: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
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To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
CC: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>, "You're Busted!" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  hak1@earthlink.net, fubari@valueserve.com,
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Subject: Re: How the name Deepfog came into being? --SORRY
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*byroni* wrote:

> ATTENTION: DA HEN
>
> Show some REAL RESPECT and change the name of the DJ in your story. My
>
> friend DeepFog has spent a lot of time DJing and building a name for
> himself in the SF Bay Area.

Etc......

Point well taken, byroni. Deepfog seems OK with it based on his email to
me. But I will fill him in on more details of the story to make sure he
is completely OK, and if not, no big deal, we'll use something original.

I guess when you try to "keep it real" it can get too real; i.e., I
didn't know he was actually a DJ; and YES, you're right I should have
gotten to him beforehand.

Lesson learned. Thanks for the drop.

da Hen


> Before I used your name for a BOOK about RAVING I would definately
> show
> some RESPECT and ask you first. You should consider the equation from
> the
> other side of the table.
>
> E-mail him and *ASK* him. Don't use other's name in your search for
> PERSONAL gain. And you can only call it PERSONAL gain if you're using
> another person's name... which will forever taint their reputation, by
>
> placing focus on your character instead of the beautiful *real*
> DeepFog.
>
> SERIOUSLY reconsider.....  Use "DJ Innerstellar" instead... of maybe
> you
> can prove that you're a true creative mind, and perhaps do something
> really crazy... AND USE YOUR OWN IMAGINATION to create a DJ name.....
> besides if your story is that good the DJ name should be the least
> important part... because you want to create your own character and
> fill a
> name... if you use DEEPFOG you're going to be working twice as hard to
>
> create a NEW identity for your character.... if you respect our scene
> respect us as well... as we ARE the scene.
>
> Plur,
> Byron
>
> ps. The books for ravers right.... I would/always have been intersted
> in
> such a book... I will not read it if you use DEEPFOG without his
> permission.
>
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, da Hen wrote:
>
> > "You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on
> me?  I
> > thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.
> Better
> > read this one."
> >
> >
> > Although I am known as quite the Prankster to my friends and have
> even
> > written 4 drafts of  a book called Prankster on my Web site, my
> email
> > was, and is, for real :)
> >
> > The little film will be extreme low budget and will focus on two
> > characters, a DJ and his girlfriend touring the US [including
> Toronto].
> > I am planning to do a short story based on this as well, but
> essentially
> > the DJ’s name is currently Deepfog. Why? I don’t know. Call it Karma
> or
> > just that I wanted to keep the names "real" and chose yours -- on a
> whim
> > -- after sifting through over 1000 emails from 8 mailing lists.
> >
> > My "home" mailing list for years is WYNSOR [Western New York,
> Southern
> > Ontario – I’m in Toronto], the other two writers reside in Austin
> and
> > LA.
> >
> > The female name we are currently using is also from this list, and
> I’ll
> > be contacting her about the origins of her name, too. So sorry to
> spook
> > you, but we just picked a name and are doing some research to follow
> up
> > and make the story as real as we can. Vrave will also be a part of
> the
> > story and we will be using names from there as well, and inform the
> real
> > people as I have done.
> >
> > Deepfog, when you get a chance and if you want, please email me
> > "personally".
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
> > humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
> > night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> > Deepfog wrote:
> >
> > > You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on
> me?
> > > I
> > > thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.
> > > Better
> > > read this one.
> > >
> > > >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:39:36 -0500
> > > >From: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
> > > >Reply-To: hen@interlog.com
> > > >Organization: Gang of Virtue Webmedia ...
> > > http://www.interlog.com/~hen
> > > >MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > >To: deepfog@hooked.net
> > > >Subject: How the name Deepfog came into being?
> > > >X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
> > > >Status: RO
> > > >X-Status:
> > > >X-Keywords:
> > > >X-UID: 17
> > > >
> > > >Hey there Deepfog.
> > > >
> > > >Listen, I'm curious as to how you came up with the handle
> "Deepfog".
> > > The
> > > >reason I'm asking is because I'm co-writing a short film script
> about
> > >
> > > >the rave scene and I have been using the handle Deepfog for the
> one
> > > >character, who is a DJ.
> > > >
> > > >That doesn't mean it's going to continue that way as we are only
> > > >beginning writing but I wanted to find out from you how you came
> up
> > > with
> > > >the name because we are doing character bios and this may help.
> > > >
> > > >DJ Deepfog, at this point, is going to be the creator of a new
> sound
> > > >called Deepfog Acid, which is like hard acid with some Jungly
> > > >drum'n'bass.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks a lot.
> > > >
> > > >da Hen         hen@interlog.com
> http://www.interlog.com/~hen
> > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
>
> > > >humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
> > > >night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
> > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
>
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
>
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
>
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                         -me



--
da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 06:47:37 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Ummm, I think you should try "The Edge" Nothing but a bunch of club kids
there. Tons of them. It's all a club kid enviornment. Oh yeah and not a
single gangster so you don't gotta worry about people thinking your
wierd. I once went all candied out and everyone doged me, so I thik you
would have fun there.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, brian j tang wrote:
> 
> >
> > so here is my one chance to introduce myself.
> >
> > So anyway, read the subject.  I'm from NYC.  I'll be in San Fran
> > starting the 19th for 2 weeks, very possibly longer, up to six weeks.
> >
> > So who do I know??  you ask.  Well DJ Marrs, the one from New Jersey
> > (I understand there are multiple DJ Marrs out there), is a former
> > associate of mine.  Any of you know camper??  I love camper.  If you
> > don't know camper you should.  He lives out there.
> >
> > How about the former member of your list, the lovely Nancy Shaw, who
> > now resides out in NYC now also.  I have the chance to meet her a
> > couple of times.
> >
> > So that's the name of people I got name-drop.
> >
> > So what's my purpose in writing this??  Well the 16 hours I'll have
> > to spare I'd like to do something with.  Sitting around in my hotel
> > won't cut it.  I need people to do, and places to see.
> >
> > So, first off, I'm not really a raver, I just play one on the
> > internet.  I'm much more into clubs, staying up until 11:00 a.m.
> > being debaucherous etc. etc.
> >
> > I hate PLUR.  I hate little kids in big pants.  Well not hate 'em, I
> > mean I know a few cool 16 year olds here and there, but when I goto
> > parties/clubs, I really do prefer an older more vibe-killing crowd.
> > I'm a club.kid.  Or more a club man, per se, not being the age to
> > call myself a kid.  But anyway I digress.
> >
> > I mean I basically don't like parties, where there are:
> > a)  people in a circle watching one person almost take my head off
> > with a foot.
> > b)  Sweaty people try to hug me, exclusively because of substances
> > they have ingested, and we happen to be at the same party.
> > c)  people trying to sell me dust.
> >
> > I like parties/clubs where there are:
> > a)  People as vain and self-absorbed as myself.
> > b)  Shmooze-a-rama's were people stand around and look at each
> > other.
> >
> > My Least Favourite genres are jungle and breaks.  I've been exposed
> > to jungle for the past two years, and I'm really really bored with
> > it.  My favourite genres are Minimal Techno and Electro.  I'm also
> > very into that very obnoxiously named genre called intelligent
> > techno.
> >
> > So maybe if somebody would have some recommendations for some places
> > I might like to hit, you could post them here, or send them to me
> > personally, or flame me loudly saying we don't need such a
> > vibe-killing trendoid like me ruining your scene.  Any of the above
> > would be helpful.
> >
> > PLUR,
> >
> > Freshie <-- not really this big of asshole IRL.
> >
> >
> >
> > freshie
> > Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
> > http://silly.com/~tang
> >
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                         -me

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 06:52:51 1998
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>MY PANTS AIN'T PHAT YO IF DEY AIN'T GOT 65" BOTTOMS
Correction. That's 69" Bottoms. By the gypsies & thieves brand.
You can order them from UNiVibe. Ask Patrice.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 06:57:50 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
CC: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>, Sfraves Discussion <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Happy Kidz = WoW!!!!!!
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Hey Macadio you dumb ass! Who do you think you are. Dingle Berry DJ!!!
Pervert!! It's Myster-E Or Mister-E or something or other.
Paul*E*Wog the CANDY Kid Rebell

macadio wrote:
> 
> Between 3-4 I believe it was Mars and Mr.E  (I know
> that is not how he speels his name :P)
> 
> Macadio (Mack-Audio)
> 
> ---Mook <mcarey@triad.com> wrote:
> >
> > I picked my sore butt out of bed on saturday,
> having gone to digital be-in
> > on friday, and proceeded with extreme slowness to
> get something done before
> > the sun went down. After much hassle I finally made
> it to Happy Kidz about
> > 11:30- . Sorry I missed Uncle Noah's set, heard it
> was pretty phat though.
> > parking was a pain( had to park hella far away)-
> and I didn't reallize that
> > admission went up after 10pm. I was thinking great
> tonight's gonna suck I
> > just know it, everything was just going wrong( more
> to this story that you
> > don't wanna hear, trust me)
> > BOY WAS I WRONG!
> >  I got inside and the music was just bomb. I went
> in scoped out the place
> > and proceeded to the dance floor where I let myself
> go. I took a break and
> > went to the chill room where dante was giving free
> massages which I really
> > needed and really appreciated. I am still getting
> used to the whole
> > everybody is friendly thing so when people were all
> smilin and say hi and
> > talkin just cuz I was a little wierded out, in a
> good way. The only sfraver
> > I met was CheerioHN and yes I did read that post
> you made over the weekend I
> > just didn't realize that was you.
> > I kept dancing the whole night, usually I need
> caffiene which Red Bull has
> > lots of( I usually drink anywhere from 3 to 6
> before dancing) There was so
> > much energy in the place that I was giddy and all I
> had was water.
> > My main reason for posting this is at about 3am I
> went downstairs and sat
> > down to catch my breath, only problem was the music
> and the crowd were so
> > alive that I couldn't sit down. I had get up and
> move to the beat. I think
> > the song was going "more Bass, more Bass, more
> Bass, Phat Bass" with tight
> > beats in between each more Bass and after Phat Bass
> the whole place went off
> > the hook. Granted I have only been apart of the
> scene for 6 mos. but damn I
> > ain't neva seen so many people on the same wave
> length and so excited about
> > music and dancing. WWWWWOOOOWWWW!!!!!!!
> >
> > I REALLY GOTTA KNOW WHO WAS SPINNIN BETWEEN 3-4
> DOWNSTAIRS, CUZ DAMN!
> >
> > I agree the only drawback I saw was the security. I
> tried to leave to go
> > home using a side door, after I was already outside
> this big security guard
> > told me and my frienz that I had to come BACK
> INSIDE and leave out the main
> > door. I'm sorry but that don't make no sense to me.
> Oh well I still had a
> > time. I will definitely be there at the next happy
> kidz event.
> >
> > Mook<><
> >
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 06:59:36 1998
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Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
Don't i make all of you jeleous.
See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
Love,
Paul*E*Wog
P.S. Or what are you plans for this weekend??

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 07:14:29 1998
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
> pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
> And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...

Damn. If only I could be so cool. 





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 07:32:27 1998
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X T C wrote:
> 
> the Happy Core room, Peckatron, was iNsAnE, great phun, i thought the
> speakers would fall w/ so many kids all over 'em ;)
> 
> ??????
> hrmm., i didnt know there was a happy hard core room at encore, ??
> what was i smoking?
> dale

oops, major typo i meant to write "HARDCORE" sorry, hope what you were 
smoking was good though ;)
~ELENA~

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 07:42:59 1998
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Mook wrote:

>  
> ps- doh!! I should kept my mouth shut when Ihad the chance Well I learned my
> lesson


Actually even though i disagree with your original post in glad you brought 
this subject up. I know everyone seems to be into raving
for different reasons. I personally see it as part of a spiritual
adventure/experiment among other things.

I know some on this list dont like to have anything spiritual
posted here and others including myself would like to see more of it.

I often hear the reason some dont belong to this list
anymore is due to its lack of spititual content or even
a lack of tolerance for anything spiritual.

So im wondering if there is a majority opinion here and
how people on this list feel about spiritual discussions.
Would you like more or less of it?

While i dont really care when people start preaching
or trying to convince me that im wrong or should change,
i do like to see others beliefs and perspectives as it 
allows me to learn and understand others even if i disagree
with them.

I know lots of people have spiritual experience at raves
and even thru interaction on lists like sfraves. I really 
enjoy it when people share those experinces, their visions,
or what they saw or found at that last party or drug journey.

We often have reviews about this or that dj and how much fun
it was to worship her/him but rarely any stories about
the journey they took you on or what they showed you. 
I would love to see more of that and discussions of such things.

What do others think?


	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

there's more than one truth out there in the sea


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 07:44:01 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>, Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Cc: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: The New Law...
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:44:47 -0800
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the public smoking thing is slightly different.  it FORCES others to
share their drug.  

i don't care if others smoke around me, but i think knowing whether an
event is smoking, no-smoking or smoking-area'ed is a positive thing.

dodger

> ----------
> From: 	Noah Apodaca[SMTP:unclenoa@netcom.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, January 13, 1998 6:52 PM
> To: 	Matthew Kodama
> Cc: 	SugeR; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: 	Re: The New Law...
> 
> 
> 
> The whole point of the "Rave" environment is to have a place where you
> 
> can experience an extreme level of personal and social freedom.  You
> are 
> free to dance crazy, dress crazy, take drugs, not take drugs, not
> dance 
> crazy, not wear clothes at all, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> That's kinda one of the backbones of the whole raving philosophy.
> 
> So why would people support regulation on any form of personal
> expression 
> or enjoyment at a rave?  If everyone smoked anyway what would happen?
> 
> I wonder about this kind of thing sometimes.
> 
> IMHO I think that if you're going to a rave you should go with an open
> 
> mind and be ready to experience a little taste of freedom.  Freedom is
> an 
> amazing and frightening thing, but trust me kids, it's better than the
> 
> alternative.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Matthew Kodama wrote:
> 
> > ---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$
> > to go to
> > > a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
> > give us
> > > the Scoop... 
> > > 
> > > :)
> > 
> > I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who like
> > to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying $$
> to
> > go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!
> > 
> > It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if they
> > have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
> > Matt.
> > 
> > P.S.
> > I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not
> trying
> > to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
> > "Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 07:44:29 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: fish1111@PACBELL.NET, SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: earplugs?
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:44:45 -0800
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any industrial supply store will have them bulk like that.

dodger


> << Can someone tell me where to get those big bottles
>  of bright green earplugs. The ones that are rounded on
>  one end and come in a bottle of about 40 pair?
>  They are called super 31 i think.
>  I have heard vague locations like walgreens but need a specific
>  store(sf or berkeley) as i have checked several walgreens with no
> luck. >>
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 07:52:31 1998
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From: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tell us about your religion
To: utopia <utopia@cwia.com>
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---utopia <utopia@cwia.com> wrote:
>
> Remember the "Tell us about yourself" string of messages last month?
 One
> thing not included was religion.  What is everyone's religion?
> 
> 


oh, great.  i would get this while sitting at home really high...  ok,
since you ask i'm going to tell you a true story from my
autobiography, "the life and times of messiah wannabe".  it's about my
religion - at least, about a time i attained one-ness with the
universe.  or something like that...



the life and times of messiah wannabe:
--------------------------------------
the messiah finds a guru
------------------------


my friend craig and i had just crossed the indrihar pass in the indian
himalayas.  it was a rough crossing, about 6500 ft above sea level,
during a blizzard.  you should see the pictures, but that's another
story, really.  anyway, after the pass we trekked down into the
valley, then up another mountain to mani mahesh lake, where we
stripped down and bathed in the icy holy waters.  thus purified, we
finally ended our arduous journey in a small village called coarsi.

now, coarsi is a beautiful little mountain town, pop. 864, with an
extremely picturesque courtyard in the center, where the populace,
over the course of the last millennium, has built 932 temples.  i only
counted about 30, mind you, but the indian definition of a temple is a
little looser than ours.  those 30 temples were really amazing though
- most of them were these 25-40  foot tall hexagonal stone odalisques,
covered in intricate carvings that reminded me of mayan writing.  as
we walked into the courtyard i was immediately greeted by my wife
melissa, who had opted out of the blizzard crossing and had taken the
bus, an adventure in itself.  she was very happy to see us, as we were
a day late, and she had assumed we died in the snowstorm.  then, as
soon as we had properly hugged, she told me there was someone i _had_
to meet.

she took me to a square building in the middle of the courtyard, and
led me inside.  sitting on a raised dias in front of the eternally
burning holy fire was my best friend drew.  well, actually it was the
village sadhu, baba, but when i say this guy was the spitting image of
my friend, i mean he was an absolute exact fucking replica - the eyes,
the cheekbones and big head, the bird chest, the yogic build, the
nappy dreads, everything.  i was stunned.

now, you have to understand about sadhus.  i'm not sure how this
indian religious sect got passed all the way to the carribean, but
basically the rastifarian tradition borrows heavily from the sadhu's,
which has been a part of indian culture since times unknown.  although
they tend to sing trance-inducing vedic chants rather than reggae,
they otherwise have many of the same trappings - the dreds, the grime,
the constant scarfing of big phat joints (well more often they smoke
chillums, but let's not split hairs)...

anyway, from the instant i walked into the temple and assumed the
lotus position at baba drew's feet, the guy was basically on a holy
mission to get me as high as i had ever been in my life.  he
immediately rolled a tobacco/hash spliff, lit it, took a few drags
("baba first, hee hee hee"), then passed it to me.  i took a small
toke, then another, and was immediately blitzed out of my skull.  by
the time it was passed around three of four times, i felt sure i was
in the same head space as melissa, who had apparently been smoking
non-stop since the day before.  before the joint was finished, the
baba was rolling another one.  this went on for some time.  at one
point, melissa leans over and whispers, "doesn't the baba look exactly
like drew?"  "yeah, i noticed," i replied...

as the days rolls by, villagers wander in and out of the temple. 
baba, much like my friend drew, obviously enjoys being the center of
attention - i was sure he was performing five-way telepathic
performance art for the goatherds sitting in the back of the room as
he chatted away with his smoking buddies next to the fire, but then i
was pretty stoned, so maybe i was imagining it.  at some point craig
wanders breifly into the place.  "dude, are we sitting in a room with
drew or what!"  "yeah, he does look a bit like him..."

now, this place was pretty well off the beaten track.  it was the
height of the tourist season, and we were the only foreigners in town,
exept for sven.  sven was a swedish mountaineer who had settled in the
village about 8 years before.  he occasionally led treks through the
surrounding mountains, but business was pretty slow, which seemed fine
with him.  he was fairly clean cut and normal looking, exept for the
fact he had one rather prominent wall-eye.  he and baba were tight,
and for a while he took the trouble to act as a translator between the
baba and ourselves (the baba's english was almost as bad as our
hindi).  as we smoked and talked, it became clear that, much like drew
(the son of a used car salesman), baba was a bit of a scam artist. 
"it is not so bad being a sadhu" translated sven.  "the village ladies
bring me food and clean up after me.  i perform puja one hour in the
morning, and one hour in the evening.  the rest of the time i just
smoke, hee hee hee!"  when the mood took him, he would travel to
kathmandu, or perhaps gujarat, where he would party with his sadhu
cronies.  and his holy vow of chastity didn't keep him from
shamelessly flirting with melissa the whole time we were there.

anyway, after his evening puja (an elaborate and hypnotizing ritual
that lasted either 10 minutes or a week, i'm not sure which), baba
decides it's time for some exercise.  so he unwinds his loincloth,
covers his now naked body with ashes from the holy fire, and starts
performing power yoga in the corner of the room.  the spot he chooses
to perform this highly mobile style of yoga places him, from my line
of vision, directly behind sven's head, thankfully shielding the lower
half of his body from my sight - mostly...  so there i sit, stoned to
bejesus, unsure which eye to look my new friend in, trying to hold a
coherent conversation in svenglish, while every few seconds baba
drew's rather large penis sswwwwings out from behind sven's ear,
blowing my concentration completely.

and at that moment, i attained enlightenment.


-messiah wannabe


  


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 07:53:24 1998
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anakin said:
>I understand that both Thomas (trance'n'jungle factory) as well as Macadio
>are throwing parties that night as well.  I firmly believe that our SF
>scene is big enough to have three UG's and still keep everyone happy.

with the very limited capacity of at least two of these parties, this is
totally a non-issue. with ALL this new snow, though, the mountains are
calling and i don't think i'm going to make it to any of these... (sorry
mike! send me a tape, goddamnit!)


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 08:06:44 1998
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I am opening a vinyl co-op online soon. Can anyone provide
any website layout suggestions?

Thanks,
N


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 08:07:14 1998
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ya know, this is a tough one. i mean, people who do smoke should have the
right to, yet people who don't should also have the right to be free of the
stuff. well.... leave it to me to invent the PERFECT solution: the
smoke-o-matic. this is a simple ceiling mounted device that consists of a
clear plastic dome on a long hose. at the roof, there is a fan mounted in a
weather-proof housing which maintains a constant flux of air, going out.
want to light up? just reach for a dome, pull it down to you, puff away,
and all your smoke is quickly and cleanly sent out into the night! of
course, you probably wouldn't look quite so cool with a plastic dome over
your head. hmmmm. maybe it's time to get some sleep.


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 08:20:19 1998
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From: Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
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as a smoker, i never mind stepping outside to light up, if those are
the house rules.  however, i like (liked?) that there are a few places
left where i can still smoke inside.  i think they (the sf business
community, i guess) could provide choices - smoking bars and non
smoking bars, clubs, and so on.  a rave, however, being a gathering of
diverse people etc., seems like it might be an ideal candidate for a
"smoking outside" area (like the briefly open fenced-in area behind
happy kids, preferably with a cool view like that too)...

-mw





---Haze <haze@netgate.net> wrote:
>
> Noah Apodaca wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The whole point of the "Rave" environment is to have a place where
you 
> > can experience an extreme level of personal and social freedom. 
You are 
> > free to dance crazy, dress crazy, take drugs, not take drugs, not
dance 
> > crazy, not wear clothes at all, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> Good point, however, by your same definition, just as they're free to
> smoke, I should be free to not have to breathe in the remains of their
> smoke? Get how it works? That's the whole issue with smoking and
smoking
> laws.  What's more important, their freedom to smoke, or my freedom to
> breathe clean air and not up my risks of cancer through inhaling
> smoke I didn't create, and not smell like smoke after a party which is
> taken away from me when they excercise their freedom to smoke.  Does
this
> mean I or other non-smokers shouldn't go to certain places because
people
> smoke there? What about people who are allergic to cigarette smoke?
Should
> they not be allowed to go to certain places either so that smokers can
> smoke?  See? It goes on and on, it's not something cut and dry.
> 
> 
> > 
> > That's kinda one of the backbones of the whole raving philosophy.
> > 
> > So why would people support regulation on any form of personal
expression 
> > or enjoyment at a rave?  If everyone smoked anyway what would
happen?
> 
> Again, see issue above, what if someone's personal expression or
enjoyment
> is infringed upon by the people smoking?  Do the smokers have more
rights
> to personal enjoyment than the non-smokers? Or vice versa? Smokers can
> still go outside to smoke and experience their freedom to smoke, I
can't
> go outside to breathe, or I won't be in the rave at all.
> 
> > 
> > I wonder about this kind of thing sometimes.
> > 
> > IMHO I think that if you're going to a rave you should go with an
open 
> > mind and be ready to experience a little taste of freedom. 
Freedom is an 
> > amazing and frightening thing, but trust me kids, it's better than
the 
> > alternative.
> 
> A taste of freedom at the expense of my own?  There's lots more to
both
> the freedom, and the smoking issue than you're covering.
> 
> Haze
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Matthew Kodama wrote:
> > 
> > > ---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me
pay $$
> > > to go to
> > > > a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
> > > give us
> > > > the Scoop... 
> > > > 
> > > > :)
> > > 
> > > I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who
like
> > > to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying
$$ to
> > > go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!
> > > 
> > > It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if
they
> > > have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
> > > Matt.
> > > 
> > > P.S.
> > > I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not
trying
> > > to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
> > > "Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 08:32:45 1998
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Subject: RE: Opening vinyl co-op online
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I am opening a vinyl co-op online soon. Can anyone provide
any website layout suggestions?

Thanks,
N
=-=-=-=-

a VINYL co-op?

is this where young vinyl thrown to the streets but unsympathetic
"natural blend" parents go to find their inner weave?

just wondering

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 08:33:50 1998
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Okay sorry bout this, my New Years was okay, took my cousin for her first 
rave ever to Origin? in J.L.S.  I did not like the crowd too much at all. 
 She didn't dance at all.  No matter what I tried.  Over all i think that 
it was better than staying home.  I saw Vlad and some others at the party 
said hi & hi for Patrice since she was in the boonies of So. Cal.  Had a 
nice time.   Drink up the Bubbly yall!

(By the way I FEEL SUPER BETTER NOW, not sick any more!!)

TERESA


Thanks to all for being a friend when I see you.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 08:42:24 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:47:49 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: spaz@hyperreal.org (S.P.A.Z.)
Subject: radio M.U.T.A.N.T free party
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wednesday evening january 14----9pm-4am

radio M.U.T.A.N.T.---------free warehouse party

 at  #17 Tehama alley between 1st and 2nd street in San Francisco's SOMA

featuring  >>>>
 Pollywog
 DJ Sunflowrfish
Aquarius
Tittus
       dj Goldilox
Pongoid
and more unexpected guests...........

playing many different varieties of phukked up muzik-------


come and hang out with us IN THE FLESH, free admission, all ages


 no broadcast this week,unless someone shows up with a laptop and a
wireless modem......(hint,hint).



www.hyperreal.org/~spaz/





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 08:43:13 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
cc: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>, Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>,
  SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: The New Law...
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Stirling, Earl wrote:

> the public smoking thing is slightly different.  it FORCES others to
> share their drug.  

So, by this argument, a lot of concert goers and many ravers are forcing
their drug on me if I inhale second-hand pot smoke. However, while I don't
smoke pot , I don't see anyone rushing to protect my rights to not have to
be subjected to it.

The problem I have with the above line of reasoning is that as a fairly
intelligent and informed human being, I have a choice to enter into
situations where I will be subjected to such dangers. I know that if I go
into a party I may be subjected to certain chemicals. It is up to me to
make the decision whether I attend such an event or not. 

It is the absolute height of hypocrisy for people to argue against the
freedom to smoke while demanding the freedom to ingest whatever chemicals
they wish. No one forces you to attend an event or go to a specific venue.
Ultimately it is your choice, and if you wish to take the risks associated
with attending, that *should* be up to you. 

Think for yourselves.







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 09:10:30 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>, blkadder@value.net
Cc: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>, Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>,
  SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: The New Law...
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:11:12 -0800
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sure, that's fine.  but i attend raves FOR THE MUSIC AND DANCING.  and
they all have second hand smoke.  should i not go to raves?

i don't think i should be subject to second hand pot smoke if i don't
want to be either. but in that case, it's already illegal.  someone
already protected your rights to be free from second hand pot smoke.
just sometimes it's not enforced.

i want the freedom to ingest whichever chemicals i choose.  but that's
the point, I want to CHOOSE which chemicals i ingest.  i don't want joe
smoker to choose for me.

dodger

(even though this is all hypothetical.  i don't mind the smoke... but
some people do)

> ----------
> From: 	blkadder@value.net[SMTP:blkadder@value.net]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, January 14, 1998 12:42 AM
> To: 	Stirling, Earl
> Cc: 	Matthew Kodama; Noah Apodaca; SugeR; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: 	RE: The New Law...
> 
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Stirling, Earl wrote:
> 
> > the public smoking thing is slightly different.  it FORCES others to
> > share their drug.  
> 
> So, by this argument, a lot of concert goers and many ravers are
> forcing
> their drug on me if I inhale second-hand pot smoke. However, while I
> don't
> smoke pot , I don't see anyone rushing to protect my rights to not
> have to
> be subjected to it.
> 
> The problem I have with the above line of reasoning is that as a
> fairly
> intelligent and informed human being, I have a choice to enter into
> situations where I will be subjected to such dangers. I know that if I
> go
> into a party I may be subjected to certain chemicals. It is up to me
> to
> make the decision whether I attend such an event or not. 
> 
> It is the absolute height of hypocrisy for people to argue against the
> freedom to smoke while demanding the freedom to ingest whatever
> chemicals
> they wish. No one forces you to attend an event or go to a specific
> venue.
> Ultimately it is your choice, and if you wish to take the risks
> associated
> with attending, that *should* be up to you. 
> 
> Think for yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 09:43:51 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:38:49 -0800
From: "dr. XeNo" <drxeno@ucdavis.edu>
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Organization: UCD Student
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    'Lo there, peeps!  TeK InDucED EuPHoriA is back!  for th' few of u that
were able ta catch it last qrtr, I got some good vibes, so check it out if yer
up.  It's 2-4am this morn and every wed morn on KDVS 90.3fm, Davis.  Check out
on the airwaves if yer in hte greater Sac/Fairfield area, or go ta
http://www.mother.com/htbin/cgiwrap/~kdvs/timche and hear it live on RA for u
worldly typEs! Take care and make requests!!

--
<<<A PLURry boy...>>>                    dr. XeNo
"Sing while you may!"                                      >:-)
          -- Edward Qa-Spel        "Set me free,
                                                Remotivate me!"
       >:-(                                         -- Martin L. Gore
              <<<<<< dr_XeNo@pacbell.net >>>>>>
*TeK-InDucED EuPHoriA*



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 09:55:13 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <208703a.34bc8b74@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 04:54:57 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP: UPCOMING JUNGLE SHIITE!!
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jungle bumpin....

.
 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THURSDAY, JAN. 15TH
*SYSTUM CHECK*
W/ UK JUNGLE SCENE ORIGINATORS: DARREN JAY (WEST COAST DEBUT!!)
                                                        MICKEY FINN
                                                        MC GQ
          your usual cast of charaters: FLUX
                                                        RINSE
                                                        PUSH 
                                                        NOEL

*LIMITED PRE-SALE TIX @ HOUSEWEARS--1322 HAIGHT ST. S.F.--415.252.1440*
                                                 *TEN DOLLARS*
10PM-4AM
18+
INFO LINE:    415. 789.7690
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SATURDAY, JAN. 17TH
PLANET ROCK
JUNGLE ROOM PLAYAS: DANNY DA WILD CHILD
                                    R.A.W. (L.A.)
                                    JOSH SWISSMAN & HERETIC (119 CREW/L.A.) 
                                    STAREYES (B.A.S.S. KRU)
                                    ABSTRACT / NOEL / UFO ( U GUESSED IT..)
                                    SIMON APEX (SACRAMENTO/ big ups..)
                                    JETS & NEME
                                    PARADOX

HOMEBASS CONCOURSE
533 HEGENBERGER RD. OAKTOWN

  INFO LINES   415.675.5603---510.869.4137---916.492.5477---408.984.4033 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
SATURDAY, JAN. 24TH
 *PHUNCKATECK @ THE TOP*
SPECIAL B-DAY PARTY FOR SAGE & NOEL...(and all Aquarians...what up Dina!)
VARIOUS DJ'S (possible "rewind" session)

THE TOP
424 HAIGHT ST.
10-2
21+ 
*3 DOLLARS*
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MORE TO COME..

                     *PHUNCKATECK INFO LINE 415.331.1500 ext. 160*
 
also...PHUNCKATECK IS MOVING...STAY TUNED!!  


peace,

PHUNKN3@aol.com
*Music is life, the rest is just filler*                  

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 10:02:36 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:02:21 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  BSP: UPCOMING JUNGLE SHIITE!!
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Hey , I slipped.....

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EVERY FRIGGIN THURSDAY...
*EKLECTIC*
YIN RESIDENTS: STAREYES n SAGE

KATE O BRIANS
579 HOWARD @ 2ND
10-2
21+
* 5 DOLLARS *
INFO 415.332 .5800. ext. 24-7
( call for weekly guests...)

DONT SLEEP!!!
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

out,
PHUNK3@aol.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 12:07:20 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 04:09:21 -0800
From: Love Butterfly <hernancz@sirius.com>
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cool info site on tubes. for tech heads only!

http://www.cinternet.net/~vactubes/index.html

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 12:20:52 1998
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Subject: N.R.R. (decent sites FYI) freaks, art & catnip 
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:21:00 -0700
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dear M.Butterfly
I'm at work still 477-6993

sister kitty
 -==--=

Sideshows and Freaks: Step Right Up - If You Dare
Joe Bates has put together a unique collection of virtual sideshow
memorabilia, from information on the movie "Freaks" to actual
photographs like the ones you could buy from sideshow acts for a bit of
added money. The pages take time to load, both because the images are
big and because there's unnecessary Java flying around. The best pages
are the what-they-promised/what-you-got section, but be absolutely sure
you want to know the answer before you click to see it. We get the
impression that Joe is familiar with Dan Mannix's autobiography (the
sword swallower who wrote the children's classic "The Fox and the
Hound") but perhaps not so much with Ricky Jay's work, which is really a
must-read for anyone interested in bizarre examples of human abilities.
http://www.joebates.com/joesfreakshow/banners1.htm

Art Free for All
You can't quarrel with the price. The Free Art Site offers just that:
freebie artwork. Goodies range from an "elegant alphabet" to snowflakes
to suns. There are also tips for Photoshop users. Don't miss the
excellent links to graphic, HTML, shareware, and type resources.
http://www.mccannas.com/

Take Time to Paws and Smell the Catnip
Combine cat alphabets, cat postcards, and cat portraits, and you've got
CatArtz, a veritable heaven for the feline-friendly.
http://members.aol.com/catartz/catartz.htm


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 12:38:51 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 04:38:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: fish1111@pacbell.net
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

<snip>
> 
> So im wondering if there is a majority opinion here and
> how people on this list feel about spiritual discussions.
> Would you like more or less of it?
> 

-->I would rather like to see less of it.  I am quite
anti-religious/spiritual, whatever, and I sometimes piss off my close
friends about it. But I usually don't rag on the topic unless someone
brings it out into the open.  I figure what someone believes spiritually
is their own business, but I don't like it when they start corrupting my
beliefs...unless I asked for it (which usually never happens; usually).
I know this is just a facet of being alive, but it is very personal, and
to tell the truth, I don't know y'alls well enough to want to delve into
it yet.


:)
M%m



> While i dont really care when people start preaching
> or trying to convince me that im wrong or should change,
> i do like to see others beliefs and perspectives as it 
> allows me to learn and understand others even if i disagree
> with them.
> 
> I know lots of people have spiritual experience at raves
> and even thru interaction on lists like sfraves. I really 
> enjoy it when people share those experinces, their visions,
> or what they saw or found at that last party or drug journey.
> 
> We often have reviews about this or that dj and how much fun
> it was to worship her/him but rarely any stories about
> the journey they took you on or what they showed you. 
> I would love to see more of that and discussions of such things.
> 
> What do others think?
> 
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> there's more than one truth out there in the sea
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 12:44:01 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 04:43:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
X-Sender: mlowdrma@apocalypse
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: k bOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com>, "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Raver Parade
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Minh Q. Le wrote:
> 
> > -->I think it would be a HORRIBLE idea.  That is the surest way to
> > commercialize and kill the sfraves UG scene. It's been done in Berlin and
> > almost all major cities in Germany as well as spreading to Switzerland.
> > Truthfully, I can't see any US city supporting the notion cuz the states
> > are way too anal about the rave and drug scene. Every year the parade in
> > Berlin gets bigger and worse, but the reason the city keeps on doing it is
> > because the revenue garnered from hundreds and thousands (approaching a
> > million) visitors is a major source of income as well as adding "cultural
> > prestige" to the city. But the downside truly is a hastened death to the
> > underground party scene.
> >         However, if this were a political rally and all these ravers and
> > clubbers marched on Washington 1 million strong to demonstrate that our
> > generation is able to rally itself under a cause and demonstrate the power
> > of the future electorate, I would totally go. Because to tell you the
> > truth, I don't think our generation gets the respect it deserves, aside
> > from our purchasing power, that is.
> >         Drug flyers at a parade would only be a waste of resources and a
> > contributor of litter.  They would be more efficient next to stacks of
> > party flyers at venues or at party juice bars (attached to free
> > lollipops).
> > 
> > :)
> > M&m
> It is impossible to kill the udnerground, because as soon as the already
> established underground becomes commercial their is always a younger and
> newer one to take its place. It's the birth and re-birth of our scene.
> Happens every three years or so someone told me.
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
> 

-->Not necessarily so IMHO, because if there is a rebirth, it would be the
birth of a brand new scene and would be somebody else's scene, not ours.
And that would be sad because then ravedom would be nothing more than a
passing fad.

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 13:56:23 1998
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wwwwait.

so henboy.

what girl am i going out with from sfravEs?

i've got to know.  like...buy a red rose or somefun.

=BFcan you buy it for me?  =3D\

will we get married?



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 13:57:40 1998
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Subject: 604E
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nothing.

i just wanted to write something with a cool subject.

you macheads should know what im talkin about.

;]



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 15:16:34 1998
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Subject: Re: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK!/Weekend Plans?
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---blkadder@value.net wrote:
>
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> > I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be
wearing my new furry
> > pants. They are electric Blue with two furry
tiger stripes on the side.
> > And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
> 
> Damn. If only I could be so cool. 



Someday Patrick someday          hehe too funny

LL


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 16:19:54 1998
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speaking of late new years, I attended this genius party last friday. 
It was a combination New Years Eve Party (on January 9th) and a 
surprise birthday party for the baby jesus.  A card was passed around 
at which point people wrote how they felt about the baby jesus.  Also 
we counted down to the New Years, and opened champagne (again it was 
January 9th).

The party was in somebodies apartment and very cramped, but was a lot 
of fun.

> Okay sorry bout this, my New Years was okay, took my cousin for her first 
> rave ever to Origin? in J.L.S.  I did not like the crowd too much at all. 
>  She didn't dance at all.  No matter what I tried.  Over all i think that 
> it was better than staying home.  I saw Vlad and some others at the party 
> said hi & hi for Patrice since she was in the boonies of So. Cal.  Had a 
> nice time.   Drink up the Bubbly yall!
> 
> (By the way I FEEL SUPER BETTER NOW, not sick any more!!)
> 
> TERESA
> 
> 
> Thanks to all for being a friend when I see you.
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 16:23:16 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:25:27 -0800
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
Cc: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Man, the funny posts never cease these days.  My .02....

At 6:29 PM -0800 1/13/98, Ray Vonie wrote:
>Just a few points I wish to comment on.
>
>SugeR wrote:
>
>> **Promoters.. just let folks KNOW that it is going to be a NON-Smoking
>> Party.. and you aint going to let us folks out to smoke... **
>>
>> at least with the information ... i can choose a different party...
>
>Some facts to be aware of.
>
>1.  Smoking is not allowed in venues that are LICENSED as a Cabaret.

Smoking is not allowed in any facility with employees, period.


>2.  This includes places like :  Maritime Hall, The Truckadero, Big Hart
>City, 1015 Folsom.... etc.

A big Herb Alpert YES!

>3.  Most warehouses and warehouse parties are NOT licensed as cabarets...
>therefor you can still smoke in them... without braking the law.

Most warhouse parties aren't licensed in the first place.  If they are
licensed (i.e. permitted), I'm not sure this would or could be enforced.
As for breaking the law, there is so much that is "illegal" about parties
in the first place (one has to wonder why the IRS hasn't come out of the
woodwork at the door), that to call parties "legal" is damn near laughable.

>4.  Most clubs and bars DO NOT CARE about this law... So what's the
>difference.

Oh yes they do.  every bar I've been in doesn;t allow it , since they
eventually will HAVE to deal with fines.  All one need do is complain, and
a case is created.  It's that easy.

>5.  This law is a good reason to stop smoking.

I am mixed as to whther or not we are legislating ourselves to death.  All
of this could have been avoided if airlines, and places where non-smokers
eat & play, had good ventialtion or had a way to remove smoke from the air.
Since it was not economically "feasible" then we have to go the legal route
(g*d forbid people spending money to make thier customers comfortable).

Humans are often so unreasonable that if it weren't for laws we would be at
each others throat.  Especially on this rock called the USA.  Unfortunately
for us, laws keep us civil, and that's a sad statement to make about
humanity in general.

>
>And finally I just have this to bring up:   Don't smokers also have to
>breathe the same second hand smoke that non smokers breathe.  So what's the
>point of all those stupid radio commercials trying to make it look as if
>smokers are ok because they smoke with a filter, and non-smokers are
>dropping dead like flies because of the second hand smoke????   I don't get
>it.

I do.  I could give a fuck about a smoker.  If it ain't weed then it's
something I don't need.  I HATE the smell of cigarette smoke and despite my
rant against all of the legislation, it was time for smoking and smokers
filthy dance-inhibiting, clothes-and-hair-funkizing, black-lung creatin',
doo-doo teeth and bad breath making habit, to cease and desist.  Now clubs
are enjoyable, you can go home and not worry about bringing in the funk of
filthy processed tobacco home with you.  You also don't have to worry about
that funky crap being blown in your face, or being touched accidentally by
the burning ember while dancing.
If you still are worried, make a formal complaint, and you'll see what a
$1,000 fine will get you (they have to sell plenty of booze to make up for
those $$$'s BTW).  Even going to a bar is cool again.

For smokers, start a speakeasy with the rest of the smokers and go for it.
You can sit in a den full of others who have the habit, and get four times
the smoke per draw.  Yummy!  MMM-MMM-Good!

>
>Keep it Real...   Vlad

Gas, Grass, or Ass, nobody rides for free,
John


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 16:31:20 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:33:55 -0800
To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
Cc: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>, SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>,
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At 6:52 PM -0800 1/13/98, Noah Apodaca wrote:
>The whole point of the "Rave" environment is to have a place where you
>can experience an extreme level of personal and social freedom.  You are
>free to dance crazy, dress crazy, take drugs, not take drugs, not dance
>crazy, not wear clothes at all, etc. etc. etc.
>
>That's kinda one of the backbones of the whole raving philosophy.
>
>So why would people support regulation on any form of personal expression
>or enjoyment at a rave?  If everyone smoked anyway what would happen?
>
>I wonder about this kind of thing sometimes.
>
>IMHO I think that if you're going to a rave you should go with an open
>mind and be ready to experience a little taste of freedom.  Freedom is an
>amazing and frightening thing, but trust me kids, it's better than the
>alternative.
>

The problem with freedom is that we really don't know the real implications
of being free.  As a matter of human history we handle freely quite poorly,
often putting one's own idea of freedom above other people's notion of
respect.  Freedom and respect are oxymorons.  True freedom means doing what
I want, despite any residual effects to anyone else or myself.  We really
don;t want true freedom, we talk a good game, but we wouldn;t know what to
do with it if we had it.  I am certain that freedom when excersized to it's
logical conclusion, without any rules, would lead to someone being on the
short end of the freedom stick.

I think that if you go to a rave, it should be in a safe environment as
much as possible.  Smoking is not safe.  Like a gun, I don't think it
belongs there.

I also disagree on the whole "freedom is better than the alternative",
since I do not think anyone on this rock is totally free.  There are people
who thought they were free to do what they wished, and most of them end up
dead or in prison IMO.  Nope, that alternative to freedom is respect, which
often requires some curbs in the practice of being free.  I'm 100% down
with that alternative.

Pax,
John

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 16:48:59 1998
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Ditto on the below, and don't forget the "Twilight Zone"  in Alameda.  I
still have my "Zone" membership card!  

David

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 blkadder@value.net wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Wayne wrote:
> 
> > How many of you out there used to go to House of Usher at that place in
> > Albany all those years ago?
> 
> Thunder Bay. It was in Berkeley.
> 
> > How about Drug #6 at 650 Howard before (and during) that?
> 
> Guilty. 
> 
> > crusty old goth/industrials, out of the closet now!
> 
> The only thing that is in the closet is some of the clothes which need a
> 'dustin off, a 'wearin, and a 'using... :-)
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 16:53:11 1998
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Today's SF Weekly Riff Raff section contains an unattributed quote
concerning Toon Town culled from SFR.

David


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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>, Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
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---"John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com> wrote:

> Nope, that alternative to freedom is respect, which
> often requires some curbs in the practice of being
>free.  I'm 100% down
> with that alternative.


Hey John,

I agree, but perhaps a better word would be courtesy
instead of respect. Just being considerate towards
others. It seems to be somewhat of a lost practice
these days.    

Take Care
Layne


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 17:33:03 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:32:22 -0800 (PST)
From: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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To: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
cc: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>, "You're Busted!" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  hak1@earthlink.net, fubari@valueserve.com,
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Subject: Re: How the name Deepfog came into being? --SORRY
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That's cool when things can be said and both sides are cool with it.....
when a stressful transaction could have taken place.. :) it leaves me with =
just
a nice, warm, creamy, glowy feeling.... :)

Love and hugs,
Byroni

On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, da Hen wrote:

> *byroni* wrote:
>=20
> > ATTENTION: DA HEN
> >
> > Show some REAL RESPECT and change the name of the DJ in your story. My
> >
> > friend DeepFog has spent a lot of time DJing and building a name for
> > himself in the SF Bay Area.
>=20
> Etc......
>=20
> Point well taken, byroni. Deepfog seems OK with it based on his email to
> me. But I will fill him in on more details of the story to make sure he
> is completely OK, and if not, no big deal, we'll use something original.
>=20
> I guess when you try to "keep it real" it can get too real; i.e., I
> didn't know he was actually a DJ; and YES, you're right I should have
> gotten to him beforehand.
>=20
> Lesson learned. Thanks for the drop.
>=20
> da Hen
>=20
>=20
> > Before I used your name for a BOOK about RAVING I would definately
> > show
> > some RESPECT and ask you first. You should consider the equation from
> > the
> > other side of the table.
> >
> > E-mail him and *ASK* him. Don't use other's name in your search for
> > PERSONAL gain. And you can only call it PERSONAL gain if you're using
> > another person's name... which will forever taint their reputation, by
> >
> > placing focus on your character instead of the beautiful *real*
> > DeepFog.
> >
> > SERIOUSLY reconsider.....  Use "DJ Innerstellar" instead... of maybe
> > you
> > can prove that you're a true creative mind, and perhaps do something
> > really crazy... AND USE YOUR OWN IMAGINATION to create a DJ name.....
> > besides if your story is that good the DJ name should be the least
> > important part... because you want to create your own character and
> > fill a
> > name... if you use DEEPFOG you're going to be working twice as hard to
> >
> > create a NEW identity for your character..... if you respect our scene
> > respect us as well... as we ARE the scene.
> >
> > Plur,
> > Byron
> >
> > ps. The books for ravers right.... I would/always have been intersted
> > in
> > such a book... I will not read it if you use DEEPFOG without his
> > permission.
> >
> > On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, da Hen wrote:
> >
> > > "You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on
> > me?  I
> > > thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.
> > Better
> > > read this one."
> > >
> > >
> > > Although I am known as quite the Prankster to my friends and have
> > even
> > > written 4 drafts of  a book called Prankster on my Web site, my
> > email
> > > was, and is, for real :)
> > >
> > > The little film will be extreme low budget and will focus on two
> > > characters, a DJ and his girlfriend touring the US [including
> > Toronto].
> > > I am planning to do a short story based on this as well, but
> > essentially
> > > the DJ=92s name is currently Deepfog. Why? I don=92t know. Call it Ka=
rma
> > or
> > > just that I wanted to keep the names "real" and chose yours -- on a
> > whim
> > > -- after sifting through over 1000 emails from 8 mailing lists.
> > >
> > > My "home" mailing list for years is WYNSOR [Western New York,
> > Southern
> > > Ontario =96 I=92m in Toronto], the other two writers reside in Austin
> > and
> > > LA.
> > >
> > > The female name we are currently using is also from this list, and
> > I=92ll
> > > be contacting her about the origins of her name, too. So sorry to
> > spook
> > > you, but we just picked a name and are doing some research to follow
> > up
> > > and make the story as real as we can. Vrave will also be a part of
> > the
> > > story and we will be using names from there as well, and inform the
> > real
> > > people as I have done.
> > >
> > > Deepfog, when you get a chance and if you want, please email me
> > > "personally".
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
> >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
> > > humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
> > > night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> > > Deepfog wrote:
> > >
> > > > You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on
> > me?
> > > > I
> > > > thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.
> > > > Better
> > > > read this one.
> > > >
> > > > >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:39:36 -0500
> > > > >From: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: hen@interlog.com
> > > > >Organization: Gang of Virtue Webmedia ...
> > > > http://www.interlog.com/~hen
> > > > >MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > > >To: deepfog@hooked.net
> > > > >Subject: How the name Deepfog came into being?
> > > > >X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
> > > > >Status: RO
> > > > >X-Status:
> > > > >X-Keywords:
> > > > >X-UID: 17
> > > > >
> > > > >Hey there Deepfog.
> > > > >
> > > > >Listen, I'm curious as to how you came up with the handle
> > "Deepfog".
> > > > The
> > > > >reason I'm asking is because I'm co-writing a short film script
> > about
> > > >
> > > > >the rave scene and I have been using the handle Deepfog for the
> > one
> > > > >character, who is a DJ.
> > > > >
> > > > >That doesn't mean it's going to continue that way as we are only
> > > > >beginning writing but I wanted to find out from you how you came
> > up
> > > > with
> > > > >the name because we are doing character bios and this may help.
> > > > >
> > > > >DJ Deepfog, at this point, is going to be the creator of a new
> > sound
> > > > >called Deepfog Acid, which is like hard acid with some Jungly
> > > > >drum'n'bass.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks a lot.
> > > > >
> > > > >da Hen         hen@interlog.com
> > http://www.interlog.com/~hen
> > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > >Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
> >
> > > > >humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
> > > > >night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
> > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> >
> > another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> > or...
> > another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> >
> > (byroni)
> > TheSPACEcowboy
> >
> > "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
> >                         -me
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
> humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
> night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>=20
>=20
>=20


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
=09=09=09-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 17:33:50 1998
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From: Ruth Jennison <ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: goth/raver double identity disorder
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Hmmm. So is Rodricks Chamber still in action? Where does it go down?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 18:03:08 1998
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To: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
CC: Rebecca L Cardennis <ldylove@juno.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: BSP-all those that goth
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I not only used to go weekly but also work there as well. I still even listen
to Bauhaus on a semi irregular basis.

kbOOM

Wayne wrote:

> At 3:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, Rebecca L Cardennis wrote:
> >This goes out to all those that like to go to goth clubs.  I am sure that
> >most people are familiar with Radericks's Chamber at the X on tuesday
> >nights well this tuesday it will be at the Sound Factory and if it does
> >well will continue to be there.
> >
> >Instead of being Roderick's Chamber at the X, it is House of Usher at the
> >Sound Factory.  Tuesday night, doors at 9 (I believe) ...
> >
> >See, it's like this:  Peter, Shawni, and X used to promote House of
> >Usher,
> >which was the main goth club in SF.  Then Peter split off to do other
> >things (A Winter Gone By, Europa, Cyberden), and Shawni and X eventually
> >opened Roderick's Chamber.  Now they're contemplating getting back
> >together
> >to do Usher ... for now it's a "Roderick's Chamber and the Cyberden
> >present:" sort of thing, but if it goes well they'll do it instead of
> >Roderick's, and at the new location (Sound Factory, 1st & Howard, across
> >the street and 1/2 block down from the Maritime Hall).
> >
> >I won't be there this tuesday considering I am way out in freezing
> >Colorado right now, but I sure will be there next week.
> >
> >if things go well and they stay at the new location there will be an
> >experimental kind of chill area on the top floor in the near future
>
> How many of you out there used to go to House of Usher at that place in
> Albany all those years ago?
>
> How about Drug #6 at 650 Howard before (and during) that?
>
> crusty old goth/industrials, out of the closet now!
>
> :-)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 18:10:21 1998
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Subject: Re: Radio Show tonite!!!
To: dr_XeNo@pacbell.net
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:09:16 -0800 (PST)
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In-Reply-To: <34BC87A8.64F05EFA@ucdavis.edu> from "dr. XeNo" at Jan 14, 98 01:38:49 am
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Please give us more than 22 minutes advance notice next time. Thanks.

> were able ta catch it last qrtr, I got some good vibes, so check it out if yer
> up.  It's 2-4am this morn and every wed morn on KDVS 90.3fm, Davis.  Check out


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 18:12:17 1998
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  sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Christopher Porter <cporter@exploretech.com>
Subject: Re: BSP-all those that goth(ed)
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At 07:21 PM 1/13/98 -0800, Wayne wrote:

>How many of you out there used to go to House of Usher at that place in
>Albany all those years ago?
>
>How about Drug #6 at 650 Howard before (and during) that?
>
>crusty old goth/industrials, out of the closet now!

Guilty as charged.  Except the crusty part... <sniff>  My favorite was the Twilight Zone in Alameda, an oddly friendly vibe there.... I remember when there was a goth night somewhere in the bay area every night of the week... Except Mondays.  And yeah, I went out every night too... Then I got old... :/  And responsible :\  DOH!

ChrisP-- Live from the Temple of Love-ove-ove-ove
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|Chris Porter                 |
|Customer Support Coordinator |
|Explore Technologies         |
|408-654-3846, 8-5 PST.       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 18:25:35 1998
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Subject: Re: The New Law...
To: jsl@twenty-hz.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:17:55 -0800 (PST)
Cc: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com, Suger@santacruz-ca.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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> I do.  I could give a fuck about a smoker.  If it ain't weed then it's
> something I don't need.  I HATE the smell of cigarette smoke and despite my
> rant against all of the legislation, it was time for smoking and smokers
> filthy dance-inhibiting, clothes-and-hair-funkizing, black-lung creatin',
> doo-doo teeth and bad breath making habit, to cease and desist.  Now clubs
> are enjoyable, you can go home and not worry about bringing in the funk of
> filthy processed tobacco home with you.  You also don't have to worry about
> that funky crap being blown in your face, or being touched accidentally by
> the burning ember while dancing.

I wonder if this law would even make it to a vote in NY.

Only in CA ...

> Gas, Grass, or Ass, nobody rides for free,

I'm snarfing this for my sig. Excellent.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 18:42:39 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:39:29 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  The New Law...
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In a message dated 1/14/98 2:40:46 AM, you wrote:

<<i have no prollems going outside to smoke... 

but what do we do if the party won't let me out to have a cigarette....

i have to hide in the bathroom like i was in high school again... 
>>

Oh boo-hoo. How about trying to control your addiction and not smoking for a
few hours. It certainly wouldnt hurt you to do that. 

The thing that pisses me off about this new law is the fact that foolios are
still in clubs smoking. Many smokers are so inconsiderate that they STILL wont
step outside to smoke, even when it's ok for them to do so. They HAVE to have
their fix, no matter who is going to be affected by it. I was at Static last
week and this girl was smoking a few feet away. I wanted to tell her to go
outside, but for some reason, I figured maybe she would take it upon herself
to do it. She didnt and ended up immediately lighting another one up and
sharing it with a guy whe was there with. 

If anyone who reads this can offer me a legitimate reason why I should have to
inhale someone else's cigarette smoke, I'll show you more reasons why I
shouldnt.

If cigarette smoking and many people who smoke werent so inconsiderate, I
doubt this law would even exist today. But, oh well! 
--Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 18:49:13 1998
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> Oh boo-hoo. How about trying to control your addiction and not smoking for a
> few hours. It certainly wouldnt hurt you to do that. 

hello-

regardless of what you feel about the smoking law ( i, myself, am
undecided) it is NOT your place to lecture people about addiction control.
a venue has the responsibility to either provide a place for smokers, or
to let them outside.  smoking IS legal, and venues thus have a
responsibility.

at static last night, there were plenty of smokers, and i woke up with a
sort throat this morning from that.  in that situation, where they were
letting people outside to smoke, it was wrong for individuals to smoke in
there.  but (having been a smoker in a past life) in a situation where the
person either has to choose to leave or to not smoke, i'll gladly bend.

just my thoughts on smoking at parties...

later-

matt =)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 18:52:20 1998
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From: "brian j tang" <fafol@royalblueny.com>
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References: <v03102809b0e29356a731@[209.133.7.194]> from "John S. Lee" at Jan 14, 98 08:25:27 am
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> > I do.  I could give a fuck about a smoker.  If it ain't weed then it's
> > something I don't need.  I HATE the smell of cigarette smoke and despite my
> > rant against all of the legislation, it was time for smoking and smokers
> > filthy dance-inhibiting, clothes-and-hair-funkizing, black-lung creatin',
> > doo-doo teeth and bad breath making habit, to cease and desist.  Now clubs
> > are enjoyable, you can go home and not worry about bringing in the funk of
> > filthy processed tobacco home with you.  You also don't have to worry about
> > that funky crap being blown in your face, or being touched accidentally by
> > the burning ember while dancing.
> 
> I wonder if this law would even make it to a vote in NY.

errrrr no.  we like the exhilirating intoxication of carcinogen 
clouds more then fresh air.

> Only in CA ...
> 
> > Gas, Grass, or Ass, nobody rides for free,
> 
> I'm snarfing this for my sig. Excellent.
> 
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 19:10:30 1998
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Subject: Re: The New Law...
To: fafol@royalblueny.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:08:41 -0800 (PST)
Cc: storpis@crl.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <9801141830.AA05089@smtp.royalblueny.com> from "brian j tang" at Jan 14, 98 01:56:32 pm
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> errrrr no.  we like the exhilirating intoxication of carcinogen 
> clouds more then fresh air.

That's what I thought ;-)

Ditto for Europe and Asia.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 19:13:13 1998
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From: Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:16:51 -0800
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hey folks,

my name is adam and i have been lurking on here for a while.  i am
posting to ask you to please not use aliases when posting to this list.
the email software i am using (ms outlook) seems to get confused
whenever there is an alias for the "sfraves@hyperreal.org" in the to
field..  examples "Ravermail" or "You're Busted!" and others.  whenever
the address isn't "sfraves@hyperreal.org" it ends up in my work inbox...
i have tried adding the aliases one by one but it seems like there is an
awful lot of them...

thanks in advance...

--adam

(if anyone knows how to get ms outlook to filter correctly... please e/m
me)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 19:21:28 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:20:47 EST
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In a message dated 1/14/98 5:25:40 PM, you wrote:

<<I do.  I could give a fuck about a smoker.  If it ain't weed then it's
something I don't need.  I HATE the smell of cigarette smoke and despite my
rant against all of the legislation, it was time for smoking and smokers
filthy dance-inhibiting, clothes-and-hair-funkizing, black-lung creatin',
doo-doo teeth and bad breath making habit, to cease and desist.  Now clubs
are enjoyable, you can go home and not worry about bringing in the funk of
filthy processed tobacco home with you.  You also don't have to worry about
that funky crap being blown in your face, or being touched accidentally by
the burning ember while dancing.
If you still are worried, make a formal complaint, and you'll see what a
$1,000 fine will get you (they have to sell plenty of booze to make up for
those $$$'s BTW).  Even going to a bar is cool again.
>>

THANK YOU! 

John S Lee rides again! FYI though, my understanding of the law is that a $100
fine is levied after a first complaint, $200, and $400 after successive
complaints, and THEN the $1000 fine.

Monty
--Da Surgeon's Generale

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 19:27:23 1998
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From: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>
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To: Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com>
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Subject: i'm back!
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hello all-

i was off sfraves for quite a bit (couldn't handle the volume of mail, got
out of raving for a while).  being at static last night, and seeing all
those kiddee ravers made me realize just how distanced from the scene i
was.

so, i'm back!!!!!

i'll try to actually post on-topic things, this time through......

matt =)

matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists / matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too much /  
                _______
               /       \
              /  o   o  \
              |    ^    |
              |         |
     ___      \   \_/   /       ___
  __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
 (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
(_______  ____________________  _______)
 (______ /                    \ ______)
  (_____/                      \_____)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 19:28:19 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:25:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Eggplant <eeep@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re:  The New Law...
To: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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you know i was too at static and was wondering about this smoking law.

i do smoke sometimes, but i don't when i'm not allowed too. i knew
there would be smokers and smoking at static funny - hip club doesn't
give a cahoots about the new law, gues they <liquid> is waiting for
their first fine before they take it seriously.


ah scrambled eggs.......

> 
> The thing that pisses me off about this new law is the fact that
foolios are
> still in clubs smoking. Many smokers are so inconsiderate that they
STILL wont
> step outside to smoke, even when it's ok for them to do so. They
HAVE to have
> their fix, no matter who is going to be affected by it. I was at
Static last
> week and this girl was smoking a few feet away. I wanted to tell her
to go
> outside, but for some reason, I figured maybe she would take it upon
herself
> to do it. She didnt and ended up immediately lighting another one up
and
> sharing it with a guy whe was there with. 
> 
> If anyone who reads this can offer me a legitimate reason why I
should have to
> inhale someone else's cigarette smoke, I'll show you more reasons
why I
> shouldnt.
> 
> If cigarette smoking and many people who smoke werent so
inconsiderate, I
> doubt this law would even exist today. But, oh well! 
> --Monty
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 19:33:03 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:31:44 -0800
From: jonas@nit.AirTouch.COM (Jonas Edgeworth)
Message-Id: <199801141931.LAA06884@phoenix33.nit.airtouch.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, aweiss@xingtech.com
Subject: Re: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!)
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> my name is adam and i have been lurking on here for a while.  i am
> posting to ask you to please not use aliases when posting to this list.
> the email software i am using (ms outlook) seems to get confused
> whenever there is an alias for the "sfraves@hyperreal.org" in the to
> field..  examples "Ravermail" or "You're Busted!" and others.  whenever
> the address isn't "sfraves@hyperreal.org" it ends up in my work inbox...
> i have tried adding the aliases one by one but it seems like there is an
> awful lot of them... 
> (if anyone knows how to get ms outlook to filter correctly... please e/m
> me)


I coudn't agree more. As well, can everyone stop using acronyms like PLUR,BSP, 
etc. because my email filters get confused. While were at it, I am having 
problems with people talking about smoking so everybody stop doing it. In fact, 
I would really appreciate everyone on this list would bow to meet my every need, 
because everyone should know how very important I am.



Raring to set up aliases for this list,

JoNaS

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 19:54:06 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:53:47 -0800 (PST)
From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
cc: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>, Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>,
  SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: The New Law...
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Stirling, Earl wrote:

> sure, that's fine.  but i attend raves FOR THE MUSIC AND DANCING.  and
> they all have second hand smoke.  should i not go to raves?

Where you go is up to you. It is my opinion that is should be the venue
owners decision as to who they are catering to, smokers, non-smokers or
acommodating both.

And since businesses are mostly profit-driven, the owner will in all
likelyhood choose a policy that matches the wishes of the majority of his
clientel if they wish to have them for long. 

And in case anyone wants to try to use the argument... I am an ex-smoker.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 20:16:18 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:42:53 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: How the name Deepfog came into being? --SORRY
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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>That's cool when things can be said and both sides are cool with it.....
>when a stressful transaction could have taken place.. :) it leaves me with =
just
>a nice, warm, creamy, glowy feeling.... :)

will someone PLEASE give this man a tissue.






>
>Love and hugs,
>Byroni
>
>On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, da Hen wrote:
>
>> *byroni* wrote:
>>
>> > ATTENTION: DA HEN
>> >
>> > Show some REAL RESPECT and change the name of the DJ in your story. My
>> >
>> > friend DeepFog has spent a lot of time DJing and building a name for
>> > himself in the SF Bay Area.
>>
>> Etc......
>>
>> Point well taken, byroni. Deepfog seems OK with it based on his email to
>> me. But I will fill him in on more details of the story to make sure he
>> is completely OK, and if not, no big deal, we'll use something original.
>>
>> I guess when you try to "keep it real" it can get too real; i.e., I
>> didn't know he was actually a DJ; and YES, you're right I should have
>> gotten to him beforehand.
>>
>> Lesson learned. Thanks for the drop.
>>
>> da Hen
>>
>>
>> > Before I used your name for a BOOK about RAVING I would definately
>> > show
>> > some RESPECT and ask you first. You should consider the equation from
>> > the
>> > other side of the table.
>> >
>> > E-mail him and *ASK* him. Don't use other's name in your search for
>> > PERSONAL gain. And you can only call it PERSONAL gain if you're using
>> > another person's name... which will forever taint their reputation, by
>> >
>> > placing focus on your character instead of the beautiful *real*
>> > DeepFog.
>> >
>> > SERIOUSLY reconsider.....  Use "DJ Innerstellar" instead... of maybe
>> > you
>> > can prove that you're a true creative mind, and perhaps do something
>> > really crazy... AND USE YOUR OWN IMAGINATION to create a DJ name.....
>> > besides if your story is that good the DJ name should be the least
>> > important part... because you want to create your own character and
>> > fill a
>> > name... if you use DEEPFOG you're going to be working twice as hard to
>> >
>> > create a NEW identity for your character..... if you respect our scene
>> > respect us as well... as we ARE the scene.
>> >
>> > Plur,
>> > Byron
>> >
>> > ps. The books for ravers right.... I would/always have been intersted
>> > in
>> > such a book... I will not read it if you use DEEPFOG without his
>> > permission.
>> >
>> > On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, da Hen wrote:
>> >
>> > > "You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on
>> > me?  I
>> > > thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.
>> > Better
>> > > read this one."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Although I am known as quite the Prankster to my friends and have
>> > even
>> > > written 4 drafts of  a book called Prankster on my Web site, my
>> > email
>> > > was, and is, for real :)
>> > >
>> > > The little film will be extreme low budget and will focus on two
>> > > characters, a DJ and his girlfriend touring the US [including
>> > Toronto].
>> > > I am planning to do a short story based on this as well, but
>> > essentially
>> > > the DJ=EDs name is currently Deepfog. Why? I don=EDt know. Call it Ka=
rma
>> > or
>> > > just that I wanted to keep the names "real" and chose yours -- on a
>> > whim
>> > > -- after sifting through over 1000 emails from 8 mailing lists.
>> > >
>> > > My "home" mailing list for years is WYNSOR [Western New York,
>> > Southern
>> > > Ontario =F1 I=EDm in Toronto], the other two writers reside in Austin
>> > and
>> > > LA.
>> > >
>> > > The female name we are currently using is also from this list, and
>> > I=EDll
>> > > be contacting her about the origins of her name, too. So sorry to
>> > spook
>> > > you, but we just picked a name and are doing some research to follow
>> > up
>> > > and make the story as real as we can. Vrave will also be a part of
>> > the
>> > > story and we will be using names from there as well, and inform the
>> > real
>> > > people as I have done.
>> > >
>> > > Deepfog, when you get a chance and if you want, please email me
>> > > "personally".
>> > >
>> > > Thanks.
>> > >
>> > > da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>> >
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
>> > > humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
>> > > night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Deepfog wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on
>> > me?
>> > > > I
>> > > > thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.
>> > > > Better
>> > > > read this one.
>> > > >
>> > > > >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:39:36 -0500
>> > > > >From: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
>> > > > >Reply-To: hen@interlog.com
>> > > > >Organization: Gang of Virtue Webmedia ...
>> > > > http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>> > > > >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> > > > >To: deepfog@hooked.net
>> > > > >Subject: How the name Deepfog came into being?
>> > > > >X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>> > > > >Status: RO
>> > > > >X-Status:
>> > > > >X-Keywords:
>> > > > >X-UID: 17
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Hey there Deepfog.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Listen, I'm curious as to how you came up with the handle
>> > "Deepfog".
>> > > > The
>> > > > >reason I'm asking is because I'm co-writing a short film script
>> > about
>> > > >
>> > > > >the rave scene and I have been using the handle Deepfog for the
>> > one
>> > > > >character, who is a DJ.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >That doesn't mean it's going to continue that way as we are only
>> > > > >beginning writing but I wanted to find out from you how you came
>> > up
>> > > > with
>> > > > >the name because we are doing character bios and this may help.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >DJ Deepfog, at this point, is going to be the creator of a new
>> > sound
>> > > > >called Deepfog Acid, which is like hard acid with some Jungly
>> > > > >drum'n'bass.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Thanks a lot.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >da Hen         hen@interlog.com
>> > http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>> > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > > >Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
>> >
>> > > > >humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
>> > > > >night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
>> > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > another deep space transmission from... ..  .
>> > or...
>> > another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
>> >
>> > (byroni)
>> > TheSPACEcowboy
>> >
>> > "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>> >                         -me
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
>> humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
>> night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>another deep space transmission from... ..  .
>or...
>another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
>
>
>(byroni)
>TheSPACEcowboy
>
>"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                        -me



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 20:23:41 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:25:49 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBXE  (Win16; I)
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: surfs up...lets party
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Well im not a surfer but i just heard the waves in Pacifica
are at 25 feet. Even though i dont surf i would love to see
this. Any one like to have a small beach party this weekend? 
Nothing too big or complicated...just a few friends or fellow
sfravers...i can bring the eye candy and a few cds if we dont
have a record spinner type person.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 20:42:55 1998
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Subject: House .wav files?
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Hi all, I found this .wav mixing software I want to play with, but don't have
any decent sounds to play with.  Anybody know of some good websites that have
little house, techn or breakbeat files I can download?
BTW, the software I'm trying is Multiquence, you can find it at....
http://www.download.com  do a search for Multiquence.

Thanks,
       Eric

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 20:53:29 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:50:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: surfs up...lets party
To: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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He's lying its small, tiny even i tell ya' if you are
thinking of paddling out stay home its not worth it
honest hehe
LL





---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> Well im not a surfer but i just heard the waves in
Pacifica
> are at 25 feet. Even though i dont surf i would
love to see
> this. Any one like to have a small beach party this
weekend? 
> Nothing too big or complicated...just a few friends
or fellow
> sfravers...i can bring the eye candy and a few cds
if we dont
> have a record spinner type person.
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 20:55:06 1998
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From: Julie Hayes <julie@cscomputing.com>
To: "sfraves@hyperreal.org" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: surfs up...lets party
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:53:21 -0000
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The fish wrote:
>Any one like to have a small beach party this weekend?=20
>Nothing too big or complicated...just a few friends or fellow
>sfravers...


Great idea!!!!!! Is there a beach secluded enough to start the party =
around the time the sun sets? You know, before it gets too nipple-ly =
out????? Or maybe it could start even earlier in the day???? =
Suggestions????

Peace,
Julie

----------
From:  fish1111@pacbell.net [SMTP:fish1111@pacbell.net]
Sent:  Wednesday, January 14, 1998 8:26 PM
To:  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject:  surfs up...lets party

Well im not a surfer but i just heard the waves in Pacifica
are at 25 feet. Even though i dont surf i would love to see
this. Any one like to have a small beach party this weekend?=20
Nothing too big or complicated...just a few friends or fellow
sfravers...i can bring the eye candy and a few cds if we dont
have a record spinner type person.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 20:57:12 1998
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Subject: Re: surfs up...lets party
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Spoken like a true surfer.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 21:06:20 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:06:16 -0800 (PST)
From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR: Programmer wanted
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I am looking for a PERL (maybe a little C) programmer for a 3 month
contract. And sorry, I do need someone to warm a chair in the
office(Moraga.)

If you might be interested, or know of anyone that might, please drop me a
message.

Thanks.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 21:10:41 1998
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To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: The New Law...
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You know everyone, regulation or no regulation, I think the smoking
controversy is moot in face of the fact that I can't even bring my own damn
co-op carbon purified WATER into a rave (sigh, I had to toss it again at
Toontown).  It's not hurting anyone except maybe the people who are SELLING
water.  

boy that burns me (ouch!)
Terri


>
>
>The whole point of the "Rave" environment is to have a place where you 
>can experience an extreme level of personal and social freedom.  You are 
>free to dance crazy, dress crazy, take drugs, not take drugs, not dance 
>crazy, not wear clothes at all, etc. etc. etc.
>
>That's kinda one of the backbones of the whole raving philosophy.
>
>So why would people support regulation on any form of personal expression 
>or enjoyment at a rave?  If everyone smoked anyway what would happen?
>
>I wonder about this kind of thing sometimes.
>
>IMHO I think that if you're going to a rave you should go with an open 
>mind and be ready to experience a little taste of freedom.  Freedom is an 
>amazing and frightening thing, but trust me kids, it's better than the 
>alternative.
>
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Matthew Kodama wrote:
>
>> ---SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > btw.. all i want is the info ahead of time... don't make me pay $$
>> to go to
>> > a party that i am not going to be comfortable at.. is all.. just
>> give us
>> > the Scoop... 
>> > 
>> > :)
>> 
>> I've got to point out that this is exactly what those of us who like
>> to dance/hate to breathe ash have been doing meanwhile - paying $$ to
>> go to parties that we are made uncomfortable at!
>> 
>> It would also be polite of promoters to mention on infolines if they
>> have no intention of restricting smoking to certain areas at all.
>> Matt.
>> 
>> P.S.
>> I'm not trying to be snotty about this, and I'm _certainly_ not trying
>> to personally attack you.  From your post, you don't seem like the
>> "Screw off, I'll smoke here if I wanna" type.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 21:12:41 1998
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John and others,

Well, as I am on the side of "no smoking" where it can adversly affect others
in a negative way (healthwise), it seems that the law for smoking in public
areas is a good one.
Raves, on the other hand, should be the very place where one can experiment
with things that are not considered part of the accepted "common good." If
this means that it now includes cigarettes, so be it. 
(This is laughable to me however, considering how mediocre it sounds to say,
"yeah man, we can *smoke* indoors at a rave!" But if needs to be part of the
escapism aura that surrounds the Rave lifestyle, then bring on the smoke.) ---
Of course, my argument stems from the idea that raves should be underground
and illicit. That, IMO, is part of their appeal.
Anyway something that John L. brought up makes me feel compelled say something
concerning the statement below:

> Humans are often so unreasonable that if it weren't for laws we would be at
> each others throat.  Especially on this rock called the USA.  Unfortunately
> for us, laws keep us civil, and that's a sad statement to make about
> humanity in general.


This statement implies that people are inherently bad. I absolutely disagree
with this. Humanity, in general, is good. Everything that surrounds our lives
(social constructs, laws, major religions, etc.) is created by us (humans).
These things are created to support the good qualities that we need to
continue our existence in a meaningful way. If humans in general, were not
good at heart, there is no way that all of these things that we use to run our
lives (government, churches, families, etc.) would ever continue to exist.
We would destroy them, becuase at heart, we would not support what is good. 
In fact, it is hard for me to believe anything otherwise considering there are
over 4 billion people on this planet and we can continue to live amongst each
other in overwhelming harmony.
You say that laws protect us from the bad parts of humanity.
This is exactly my point.
We created it and the majority support it. Therefore humanity must be on the
side of good rather than bad.

If it were not so, everything would crumble.

When I go to Raves [oh so seldom these days  :( ], this is the attitude I take
with me.

It is a perspective of the world that has to be correct or else we will never
rise above what we are now.

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 21:41:05 1998
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To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: How the name Deepfog came into being? -- MY EMAIL
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i wasn't under the impression that he minded the use of his name...did I
misread?

besides, it's deepFROG, not deepfog.

bOOm




>ATTENTION: DA HEN
>
>Show some REAL RESPECT and change the name of the DJ in your story. My
>friend DeepFog has spent a lot of time DJing and building a name for
>himself in the SF Bay Area.
>
>Before I used your name for a BOOK about RAVING I would definately show
>some RESPECT and ask you first. You should consider the equation from the
>other side of the table.
>
>E-mail him and *ASK* him. Don't use other's name in your search for
>PERSONAL gain. And you can only call it PERSONAL gain if you're using
>another person's name... which will forever taint their reputation, by
>placing focus on your character instead of the beautiful *real* DeepFog.
>
>SERIOUSLY reconsider.....  Use "DJ Innerstellar" instead... of maybe you
>can prove that you're a true creative mind, and perhaps do something
>really crazy... AND USE YOUR OWN IMAGINATION to create a DJ name.....
>besides if your story is that good the DJ name should be the least
>important part... because you want to create your own character and fill a
>name... if you use DEEPFOG you're going to be working twice as hard to
>create a NEW identity for your character.... if you respect our scene
>respect us as well... as we ARE the scene.
>
>Plur,
>Byron
>
>ps. The books for ravers right.... I would/always have been intersted in
>such a book... I will not read it if you use DEEPFOG without his
>permission.
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, da Hen wrote:
>
>> "You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on me?  I
>> thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.  Better
>> read this one."
>>
>>
>> Although I am known as quite the Prankster to my friends and have even
>> written 4 drafts of  a book called Prankster on my Web site, my email
>> was, and is, for real :)
>>
>> The little film will be extreme low budget and will focus on two
>> characters, a DJ and his girlfriend touring the US [including Toronto].
>> I am planning to do a short story based on this as well, but essentially
>> the DJ=EDs name is currently Deepfog. Why? I don=EDt know. Call it Karma =
or
>> just that I wanted to keep the names "real" and chose yours -- on a whim
>> -- after sifting through over 1000 emails from 8 mailing lists.
>>
>> My "home" mailing list for years is WYNSOR [Western New York, Southern
>> Ontario =F1 I=EDm in Toronto], the other two writers reside in Austin and
>> LA.
>>
>> The female name we are currently using is also from this list, and I=EDll
>> be contacting her about the origins of her name, too. So sorry to spook
>> you, but we just picked a name and are doing some research to follow up
>> and make the story as real as we can. Vrave will also be a part of the
>> story and we will be using names from there as well, and inform the real
>> people as I have done.
>>
>> Deepfog, when you get a chance and if you want, please email me
>> "personally".
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
>> humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
>> night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>> Deepfog wrote:
>>
>> > You guys, this is just too weird.  Is someone playing a prank on me?
>> > I
>> > thought I was the only one with the name Deepfog.  I guess not.
>> > Better
>> > read this one.
>> >
>> > >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:39:36 -0500
>> > >From: da Hen <hen@interlog.com>
>> > >Reply-To: hen@interlog.com
>> > >Organization: Gang of Virtue Webmedia ...
>> > http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>> > >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> > >To: deepfog@hooked.net
>> > >Subject: How the name Deepfog came into being?
>> > >X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>> > >Status: RO
>> > >X-Status:
>> > >X-Keywords:
>> > >X-UID: 17
>> > >
>> > >Hey there Deepfog.
>> > >
>> > >Listen, I'm curious as to how you came up with the handle "Deepfog".
>> > The
>> > >reason I'm asking is because I'm co-writing a short film script about
>> >
>> > >the rave scene and I have been using the handle Deepfog for the one
>> > >character, who is a DJ.
>> > >
>> > >That doesn't mean it's going to continue that way as we are only
>> > >beginning writing but I wanted to find out from you how you came up
>> > with
>> > >the name because we are doing character bios and this may help.
>> > >
>> > >DJ Deepfog, at this point, is going to be the creator of a new sound
>> > >called Deepfog Acid, which is like hard acid with some Jungly
>> > >drum'n'bass.
>> > >
>> > >Thanks a lot.
>> > >
>> > >da Hen         hen@interlog.com         http://www.interlog.com/~hen
>> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >Caught in da coop by da Muthaship of Creativity to be dynamically
>> > >humourous, fundamentally serious, ballplayin' delirious, an all
>> > >night House tripper, and a spec fiction hardfloor ripper.
>> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>
>
>another deep space transmission from... ..  .
>or...
>another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
>
>
>(byroni)
>TheSPACEcowboy
>
>"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                        -me



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:01:08 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:03:47 -0800
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: surfs up...lets party
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>Well im not a surfer but i just heard the waves in Pacifica
>are at 25 feet. Even though i dont surf i would love to see
>this. Any one like to have a small beach party this weekend?
>Nothing too big or complicated...just a few friends or fellow
>sfravers...i can bring the eye candy and a few cds if we dont
>have a record spinner type person.
>
>        ><{{{">  <"}}}><



um,,  fish...


        ...it's raining, sweetie.

b))merang



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:18:24 1998
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In a message dated 1/14/98 6:58:53 AM, deepfog@hooked.net wrote:

>nothing.
>
>i just wanted to write something with a cool subject.
>
>you macheads should know what im talkin about.
>
>;]


i DO know exactly what your are talkin about...being a machead as well.  I'm
running one o those right now baaaaby  :)   at 225MhZ  ;)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:24:32 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re:  604E
To: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>, deepfog@hooked.net,
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Sorry boys I got ya' both beat how bout' an Octane
SGI style R10K  hehe  the mine is bigger than yours
theory truly applies here.


LL





---Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com> wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 1/14/98 6:58:53 AM,
deepfog@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> >nothing.
> >
> >i just wanted to write something with a cool
subject.
> >
> >you macheads should know what im talkin about.
> >
> >;]
> 
> 
> i DO know exactly what your are talkin
about...being a machead as well.  I'm
> running one o those right now baaaaby  :)   at
225MhZ  ;)
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:28:16 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Peter Sandifer wrote:

> um,,  fish...
> 
>         ...it's raining, sweetie.
> 
> b))merang


wimp =)

ok...maybe someone has a house near the beach that we could invade.
Its just water and it can be quite fun to stomp around in the rain
on the beach ....and there are no smoking restrictions for those
that suck...(suck on cigs that is)

	><{{{">  <"}}}><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:29:45 1998
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Oh step off, boyz.

I got an Origin SGI baby. Over a gig of ram for my desktop.

In fact, the origin is sooo big, it *is* my Desk.

I render 3D at will.

;)

rob.
7500/120 bound but awaitin' my G3 Mac.



Layne Loomis wrote:
> 
> Sorry boys I got ya' both beat how bout' an Octane
> SGI style R10K  hehe  the mine is bigger than yours
> theory truly applies here.
> 
> LL
> 
> ---Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/14/98 6:58:53 AM,
> deepfog@hooked.net wrote:
> >
> > >nothing.
> > >
> > >i just wanted to write something with a cool
> subject.
> > >
> > >you macheads should know what im talkin about.
> > >
> > >;]
> >
> >
> > i DO know exactly what your are talkin
> about...being a machead as well.  I'm
> > running one o those right now baaaaby  :)   at
> 225MhZ  ;)
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:32:08 1998
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Subject: Fwd: ...it'll be fun... ---> inR-active
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TO: Crisana808@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org, spacegrrl2@goplay.com,
  Girly77@aol.com, fabienne@ix.netcom.com, haze@netgate.net, leoj@goplay.com,
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     --- Forwarded mail ---
     From: Crisana808 <Crisana808@aol.com>
     Date: Wednesday January 14, 1998 at  2:48am
     
     
     >send this back with your info <
     
     Okay everybody so here's the deal. copy this >entire e-mail and change 
     the
     > answers so they apply to you (please) then send it to everyone you 
     know >including the person that sent it to you you'll get a lot of 
     these getting to >know you letters and learn a lot about your friends 
     you may have never known >before
     > 
     > this is really neat-o.  it helps you get to know people you think 
     you know >even better!  wow!   haley lyn
     
     *this reminds me of SLANG books back in the days I had to do it-do it 
     too!* cris  
     
     full name: Lacie Marie Murphy
     nicknames: Lace, space-lace, inkerbelle 
     dob: August 9, 1978
     parents: 1 + 1/2
     siblings:3(1/2's) and 1 fake sis 1 fake bro  
     favorite cartoon: Scobby DOo, Strawberry Shortcake, He-man, she-ra, My 
     lil' pony, pepper anne, reccess, school house rocks
     school: fothill/deanza jc
     future school: Uni of S. Cali
     best buddies: Ben, Rach, Ryss & LAURA! and whole bunch more
     pets and names: Dog: Sammy (samuel adams) rabbit: Tiffany, Bird: soup
     jobs:  hp
     hobbies: coffee, music, ravers, movies, sewing, BEADS..., other junk
     collect: stamps, beads, clothes, boys.....
     best advice ever given:  laugh alot.
     words or phrases used too much:  groovy
     a non-sport game  at which you excel: tetris
     a non-sport game you enjoy: checkers and connect 4
     dream car: ummmmm????? perhaps a dodge stealth
     coolest experience: ahhhh. cant tell
     scariest thing you've ever done: cant tell
     fave thing to do in the summer: beach, road trips, coffee, stars
     fave thing to do in the winter: more coffee
     fave thing to in the autumn: halloween 
     little known talent: very groovy sew-R
     character traits I look for in a person: someone who is nothing like 
     me :o)
     what i want to be: computer animator
     future goals:  finish school, watch cartoons forever, do the love 
     thing....
     denomination: I have no idea what this means 
     fave music: 70s, 80s, and rock (everything but nasty rap) techno
     fave colors: 'lello, orange, blu
     fave food: gumbas pizza
     funniest person: what?? who?? umm chris rock
     fave vacation(s): i'm a loosR! disneyland
     fave subject(s): art, recess
     fave sport: ???? possibly basket ball and race car stuff
     fave actor:  leanardo??
     fave actress: claire daines, jeanine garafolo
     fave movie:The Craft, romeo & juliette, toy story, james &the Giant 
     peach
     fave music video:none?
     fave animal: things that dont need to be cleaned up after :-)
     fave day: thursday & sat
     fave month: August
     fave holiday:  halloweeeeen
     fave part of newspaper:  comics, art / pink section
     fave toothpaste: anything but toms of maine orange NASTY!
     fave cereal: peanut butter puffs
     fave things to wear: birk's, overalls (cords), green
     least fave thing to wear: Nylons (Tights)  no lace, no bows!, no pinks 
     unless its on something really really really cute (amen sister!:-)
     personal quote: "oh so hot want to touch the hi-ney ah whoooooo!", 
     "nope can't", "TMD Baby, TO MUCH DRAMA!!!"
     
     Luv you!
     
     
     
     ------------------------------------------------------ | Keeping your 
     email PRIVATE is our business.
     | http://www.goplay.com/email/1000002 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:32:44 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: 604E
To: rwpointer@citiscape.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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My back up sever is J90 all Cray baaaby howz that?

LL




---Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com> wrote:
>
> Oh step off, boyz.
> 
> I got an Origin SGI baby. Over a gig of ram for my
desktop.
> 
> In fact, the origin is sooo big, it *is* my Desk.
> 
> I render 3D at will.
> 
> ;)
> 
> rob.
> 7500/120 bound but awaitin' my G3 Mac.
> 
> 
> 
> Layne Loomis wrote:
> > 
> > Sorry boys I got ya' both beat how bout' an Octane
> > SGI style R10K  hehe  the mine is bigger than yours
> > theory truly applies here.
> > 
> > LL
> > 
> > ---Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 1/14/98 6:58:53 AM,
> > deepfog@hooked.net wrote:
> > >
> > > >nothing.
> > > >
> > > >i just wanted to write something with a cool
> > subject.
> > > >
> > > >you macheads should know what im talkin about.
> > > >
> > > >;]
> > >
> > >
> > > i DO know exactly what your are talkin
> > about...being a machead as well.  I'm
> > > running one o those right now baaaaby  :)   at
> > 225MhZ  ;)
> > >
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:39:58 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:43:44 -0800
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
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Organization: CITISCAPE Media Design, LLC
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Hmmmm, my machine is soooo badass that:

1) I'm running unix based rhapsody on my mac partitioned hardrive that is
running virtual PC with Windows NT 4.0 within the Mac based blue box while
serving several servers through native TCP/IP ports as well as open transport 1.3.

My sh*t is so *on* that I back up my machine *with* my machine.

;)

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

p.s I can cut and paste anything anywhere. my skillz are supreme.

Layne Loomis wrote:
> 
> My back up sever is J90 all Cray baaaby howz that?
> 
> LL
> 
> ---Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oh step off, boyz.
> >
> > I got an Origin SGI baby. Over a gig of ram for my
> desktop.
> >
> > In fact, the origin is sooo big, it *is* my Desk.
> >
> > I render 3D at will.
> >
> > ;)
> >
> > rob.
> > 7500/120 bound but awaitin' my G3 Mac.
> >
> >
> >
> > Layne Loomis wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry boys I got ya' both beat how bout' an Octane
> > > SGI style R10K  hehe  the mine is bigger than yours
> > > theory truly applies here.
> > >
> > > LL
> > >
> > > ---Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 1/14/98 6:58:53 AM,
> > > deepfog@hooked.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >nothing.
> > > > >
> > > > >i just wanted to write something with a cool
> > > subject.
> > > > >
> > > > >you macheads should know what im talkin about.
> > > > >
> > > > >;]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i DO know exactly what your are talkin
> > > about...being a machead as well.  I'm
> > > > running one o those right now baaaaby  :)   at
> > > 225MhZ  ;)
> > > >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:40:56 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:43:47 -0800
To: rwpointer@citiscape.com
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law..."Humans are inherently good" tangent
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 1:16 PM -0800 1/14/98, Robert Pointer wrote:
<snip comments, all good btw>

>Anyway something that John L. brought up makes me feel compelled say something
>concerning the statement below:
>
>> Humans are often so unreasonable that if it weren't for laws we would be at
>> each others throat.  Especially on this rock called the USA.  Unfortunately
>> for us, laws keep us civil, and that's a sad statement to make about
>> humanity in general.
>
>
>This statement implies that people are inherently bad.

No it implies people will act with their own best interests in mind.  This
is sometimes counter to what could be called *your* best interests.   That
is where potential conflict lies.

Face it, we can't handle unbridled freedom.  Show me ONE free society and
I'll show you one in complete ruin.


> I absolutely disagree
>with this. Humanity, in general, is good.

Humanity in general is humanity.  And humanity has more dirt on it,
considering it's vast *intelligence* than any other species.  Yes, we've
done some interesting things as a species.  But as for perpetuation of our
kind, we put ourselves in peril constantly (the environment, unbridled
consumption, etc.).

> Everything that surrounds our lives
>(social constructs, laws, major religions, etc.) is created by us (humans).
>These things are created to support the good qualities that we need to
>continue our existence in a meaningful way.

To me this is a pollyanna view, no insult meant.  The things you mention
are there to uphold certain standards of behavior we have, in general
agreed to encourage.  Often times it is at a cost to those not thought
about  in the original conception of said concepts (the fact that most
major religions are male centric is an example of this view).

>If humans in general, were not
>good at heart, there is no way that all of these things that we use to run our
>lives (government, churches, families, etc.) would ever continue to exist.

Faulty logic.  They continue to exist because there is a benefit to the
person or people they are intended to help.  Which happens to be the very
rich often male population.

>We would destroy them, becuase at heart, we would not support what is good.

We often support what is not good for us:
-Fossil fuels
-War
-Poverty
-Pestilence
-The various isms.

>In fact, it is hard for me to believe anything otherwise considering there are
>over 4 billion people on this planet and we can continue to live amongst each
>other in overwhelming harmony.

Are you kidding?  Let's say that you prefer to look at the good for
arguments sake.  That will not erase Burundi's, Tibets, Rwanda's, BOsnia,
our CONTINUED war with Iraq & Iran and over half of the muslim world.  Our
perpetuation of chemical weapons...geez I could go on.

We live in harmony because we are cloistered Americans, dull to the real
pain that occurs in almost every country other than ours.  Let's not get me
started on the 20% of kids in this country who starve, the massive child
abuse, the neglect this society has of it's children, executions of the
mentally ill, executions?  Harmony?  It's only at CERTAIN raves I tell ya.
Real life is often brutal for the vast majority of the citizens of this
planet.

>You say that laws protect us from the bad parts of humanity.

Laws protect us from each other, that is my point.

>This is exactly my point.
>We created it and the majority support it. Therefore humanity must be on the
>side of good rather than bad.

The majority supports nothing.  Shit the majority doesn't even vote.

>
>If it were not so, everything would crumble.

Things are crumbling.  Come to the Haight sometime.  Better yet, live here
and tell me about harmony.

>
>When I go to Raves [oh so seldom these days  :( ], this is the attitude I take
>with me.

Good thing IMO, cause the real world is still not the prettiest place
sometimes.  Thus our need for various escape routes from time to time.
Life is good yes, but it is coupled with brutality and stress as the
machine rolls on, unattended.

>
>It is a perspective of the world that has to be correct or else we will never
>rise above what we are now.

We have a long way to go as a species.  Another millenium or two and we may
just get it.  At this time, we're in the red!  My .02.

>
>rob.
>http://www.citizenmag.com

Peace,
John


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:42:18 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:36:59 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  RE: The New Law...
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In a message dated 1/14/98 8:54:42 PM, you wrote:

<<
And since businesses are mostly profit-driven, the owner will in all
likelyhood choose a policy that matches the wishes of the majority of his
clientel if they wish to have them for long. 
>>

Oh! So rules and laws should be made to the whims of the majority, huh? Sounds
familiar....
--Monty
ps-Patrick, you know you're my boy, but I'm not letting go of this one!!! :P

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 22:42:36 1998
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To: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: ORIGIN - facts
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> Well, after Dumb and Spacey (who incidently had two people DIE at a
>party of theirs not too long ago)


you make it sound like they arranged it.



>>your freind,moshe
>
> Your not our friend Moshe. Most of us don't even know you (or care to).


speak for yourself.  he's my friend, and i know plenty of other people who
like him just fine.
assuming we're talking about the dj moshe from oaktown.  otherwise i can't
say.

but still, speak for yourself, not "us".

your email colleague,

b))merang




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 23:14:58 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:44:26 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Oh, and one more thing about smoking....
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To all the folks who want to herald your right to smoke at parties as an
expression of your desire to go against the grain now that it has been
outlawed here in Cali. Consider this, revolutionaries:

BY SMOKING YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY.

There is nothing subversive or revolutinary or enlightening or mind-enhancing
about puffing on a carniogenic stick. Just ask the "Cancer Man" on the X-
Files. 
--Monty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 23:20:57 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:20:42 -0800 (PST)
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dude-

chill....  the power of addiction is much greater than you make it out to
be.  your comments really don't add anything constructive that can help a
non-smoker stop smoking.  your comments don't really say anything that
smokers haven't heard yet.  and you come accross as intollerant.

now, if you'd like to discuss positive ways that parties might allow
people like you and me to stay away from smoke while allowing smokers the
ability to do so, lets talk about that.

later-

matt =)

matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists / matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too much /  
                _______
               /       \
              /  o   o  \
              |    ^    |
              |         |
     ___      \   \_/   /       ___
  __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
 (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
(_______  ____________________  _______)
 (______ /                    \ ______)
  (_____/                      \_____)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 23:22:12 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <927662cc.34bd4634@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:11:46 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Tell us about your religion
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In a message dated 98-01-13 22:41:42 EST, you write:

<< Remember the "Tell us about yourself" string of messages last month?  One
 thing not included was religion.  What is everyone's religion? >>

  LEt's See... organized religion?? I believe it was more of a social thing
for me.  I was raised Jewish (Gee.. those Jews suuure know how to party!).  I
guess that would make me a practicer of ~~~> Reform Judiasm.  I don't really
practice all that often, but at least I can say I'm actively involved.  Oh,
and mark me down as an aspiring Kabballist.  

             hugs n'stuff,
                 trice the tekno diva

    Shalom Ahavah Eechood V'Kavod

 "Yah.. it's just a bunch of my Jewish friends and me.  We're going up to the
woods and we're gonna party."
 "Suddenly I'm feeling a little Jewish."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 23:23:19 1998
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From: "brian j tang" <fafol@royalblueny.com>
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:27:33 -0500
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Subject: Re: Oh, and one more thing about smoking....
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> To all the folks who want to herald your right to smoke at parties as an
> expression of your desire to go against the grain now that it has been
> outlawed here in Cali. Consider this, revolutionaries:
> 
> BY SMOKING YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY.

and that's good.  cause who else will make cigarettes for me to buy.  
I mean that sweet inhale of carcinogens goes so well with all the 
other illicit substances, that are snorted, swallowed, or anally 
applicated.
 
> There is nothing subversive or revolutinary or enlightening or mind-enhancing
> about puffing on a carniogenic stick. Just ask the "Cancer Man" on the X-
> Files. 
> --Monty
> 

freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 23:33:17 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:35:54 -0800
To: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: Oh, and one more thing about smoking....
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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...  the power of addiction is much greater than you make it out to
>be.  your comments really don't add anything constructive that can help a
>non-smoker stop smoking.



not necessarily.  you never know what simple thing can make a difference.
One day, my boss asked me, after i'd been smoking for 10 years, "Why in
hell are you giving your money to some redneck down in Gawgia who doesn't
give a rat's as about you?"

I quit smoking that day.    Sometimes people just have to put it in the
simplest perspective for you.

b))merang



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 23:43:24 1998
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To: Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 98 11:16:51 PST."
             <985D3B8D9F6DD111B23A0060972DC795011ECA@MSMAIL> 
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 15:42:59 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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> my name is adam and i have been lurking on here for a while.  i am
> posting to ask you to please not use aliases when posting to this list.
> the email software i am using (ms outlook) seems to get confused
> whenever there is an alias for the "sfraves@hyperreal.org" in the to
> field..  examples "Ravermail" or "You're Busted!" and others.  whenever
> the address isn't "sfraves@hyperreal.org" it ends up in my work inbox...

Wait, lemme get this straight. The goons up in Redmond create a piece
of shit mail program that can't even handle RFC-822 standard address
headers correctly (even though a toddler could write a program to parse
said headers in their myriad (2) different formats) ... and we're all
supposed to go changing our extremely witty "names" for the list such
as "San FranDisco Ravers List."

Why don't you just submit a bug report to microslotht instead?

Or try keying off a different field than the "To:" or "Cc:" line. Every
piece of mail on sfraves has an additional field  "Sender:
sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org" -- why don't you tell Exchange (a name
which tells you what to do w/ the shitware you just bought) about that
header instead?

For example, I use MH's slocal (a libre program available for any Unix
system) and I filter sfraves with:
Sender sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org ^ ? "/usr/local/lib/mh6.7/rcvstore +sfraves"
Sender sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org ^ ? "/usr/local/lib/mh6.7/rcvstore +sfraves"

PS: microsoft sucks. long live Linux and libre software.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 14 23:48:36 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e05a7d0.34bd48f6@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:23:31 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK!/Weekend Plans?
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I am going to Planet Crock, and as promised, I'm going to be busting out with
the laser tag set.  OR maybe I should give up on that idea and just lug my
pogo stick with me.  It's a hell of a lot more useful in beating down the
gansta Rebels I'm going to encounter.  Ghetto Phest here I come!! OH hellz
yah!! I can't wait to see all of you there!! The majority of my will be
flashing (it's my theme of the nite) and I'm gonna wear my SFR shirt again.
Have a happy Three-Day weekend, those of you that get one.

          hugs n'stuff,
                'trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 00:30:26 1998
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To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "Chris 'Jack' Hart" <jack@twaxx.com>, "Geoff White" <geoffw@v-site.net>,
  "Jason Grotte" <jason@v-site.net>, "Simon Spero" <ses@tipper.oit.unc.edu>,
  Jonathan Magid <jem@sunsite.unc.edu>
Subject: is this for real? (Miss. Legislature House Bill 196)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 16:30:17 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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Cool. The war on drugs meets sharia law!

Taken from ftp://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/1998/HB/0100-0199/HB0196IN.htm
--------------------

MISSISSIPPI LEGISLATURE

1998 Regular Session

To: Judiciary A

By: Representative Moak

                                          House Bill 196

AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE REMOVAL OF A BODY PART IN LIEU OF OTHER
SENTENCES IMPOSED BY THE COURT FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE
CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES LAW; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES. 

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI:

SECTION 1. In lieu of any other penalty prescribed by law, the court
may allow any person who is convicted for a violation of the Controlled
Substances Law to have a body part removed. The convicted person and
the court must agree on which body part shall be removed.

SECTION 2. This act shall take effect and be in force from and after
July 1, 1998.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 00:48:14 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: Future Breaks is it!
Cc: susan@langan.net, grifem00@dons.ac.usfca.edu
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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Has anyone checked the kick ass new radio show on KUSF?  It is called Future
Breaks and it is a jungle drum n' bass showcase.  The show is hosted by Miss
E, Dj Push & The Arc Angel Gabe Real.

It has been on KUSF (90.3) for two weeks now and it flows through the
airwaves from 4:PM ~ 5:PM every Saturday afternoon.

Last week the guest was MC Phluid.  He was kickin' it hard and toasting as
only the man Kayheed can.

If you like the drum and you like the bass, check it out, it's worth it!


dmarie
Ground Score








me...dmarie


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 00:57:44 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:57:22 -0800 (PST)
From: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>
X-Sender: davidmin@shell
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: SF Weekly article
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OK kiddies, some of you wanted to know more about the Toontown article in
SF Weekly so here it is...

http://www.sfweekly.com/1998/current/riffraff1.html

A somewhat unreadable color scheme...
(I'll have you know I had to look it up on the only browser I can use at
work, the one in Pointcast under Win 3.1. (It's not our fault, I have
network software that won't run on anything more recent than NDIS 1.  No
other browsers I've tried work).  Oh, the pain).  

Yer pal, 

David


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 01:21:50 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:19:01 -0800
To: Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>,
  "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: Michael Standish <standish@sirius.com>
Subject: Re: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!)
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
Precedence: bulk

At 11:16 AM -0800 1/14/98, Adam Weiss wrote:
>(if anyone knows how to get ms outlook to filter correctly... please e/m
>me)

Try setting your email client to filter "any header", instead of just the
to portion of the header. If ms outlook can't do that, then buy Eudora Pro.;

Sir Ulrich Knight of the Turntables



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 02:02:30 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:02:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
cc: Rebecca L Cardennis <ldylove@juno.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: BSP-all those that goth
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   Wayne--- Pat and I used to go House of Usher when it was in *Berkeley*
down at the aquatic park off of 6th st.It was and still remains to be my
favorite club of all time!..When did you last go there?..wow!..maybe we
all went at the same time..hehe...hey Joe Rice weren't you hanging out
there also??   :^)..
                                 -Raygun


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 02:04:07 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:03:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: utopia <utopia@cwia.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Tell us about your religion
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980113193822.006ba018@mail.cwia.com>
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 I don't really have one.....but I believe in Karma. That's about it.



On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, utopia wrote:

> Remember the "Tell us about yourself" string of messages last month?  One
> thing not included was religion.  What is everyone's religion?
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 02:07:29 1998
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Organization: The Justice League Sound System
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:08:32 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>
Subject: Re: BSP-all those that goth
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At 6:02 PM -0800 1/14/98, Reagan Reid wrote:
>   Wayne--- Pat and I used to go House of Usher when it was in *Berkeley*
>down at the aquatic park off of 6th st.It was and still remains to be my
>favorite club of all time!..When did you last go there?..wow!..maybe we
>all went at the same time..hehe...hey Joe Rice weren't you hanging out
>there also??   :^)..
>                                 -Raygun

I think you might mean Minor Minor. =) I used to go to a couple things in
LA to see particular bands or whatnot, however, and I once took the time to
hand stud the Bauhaus logo onto the back of a jacket...uh...

It was exceedingly surreal to see throngs of dolled up goths standing
outside Sound Factory last night. What's next, the Red Onion?

Joe




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 02:09:03 1998
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Ok I'm wondering if anyone in the Bay Area is going to Planet Rock and
would possibly be able to take me along. Let me know......

Drakonis Darkheart
DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS - http://home.earthlink.net/~drakonis/index.htm

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 02:35:31 1998
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From: Harmony <ascend@ix.netcom.com>
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Hello Sfraves,

On Thursday Night Jan. 22nd

Harmonics Clothing presents...

***Discovery***

With djs: 	Greg sandler		Urn
		   Joey		    Erik Brown

				9pm-2am
18 and up
			$5

Discovery is located at 625 Fifth St, Santa Rosa (Masses Pool Hall)

Come into Harmonics, and mention this post, on the day of the party for a
%10 discount all music. (that includes cds, records and dj tapes)

Harmonics is at 1067 Fourth St, Santa Rosa
(707)571-8747

Peace and love,

Greg = )

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 03:11:26 1998
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<< start of forwarded material >>


From: InTheMix@groovelounge.com (InTheMix)
Sender: InTheMix@groovelounge.com
To: acid-jazz@ucsd.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:31:44 -0400
Subject: Q-Burns Abstract Message Concert Cybercast
Organization: N2K Inc.
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Gateway: NASTA Gate 1.18 for FirstClass(R)

The Groove Lounge (http://www.groovelounge.com)  is proud to present,

*****Q-Burns Abstract Message (1/14/97 at 8PM EST) along with Astral
Werks Chat*****

Spawned from Orlando, Florida's Phat N' Jazzy night club, Q-Burns
Abstract Message and a handful of other resident DJs put together
Eighth Dimension Records. Their latest release, "Selected Material,"
showcases the best of the label's solid, head-nodding rhythms. Q-Burns
stopped in LA on his tour with Gus Gus and was kind enough to let us
broadcast his show. Check out his upcoming releases this year on
Astralwerks.

*****Astralwerks Records Chat 1/14/97 7-9PM EST*****
Join DJ Orion and the Astralwerks Webgeek, both from Astralwerks
Records, on the Rocktropolis Music Chat from 7-9pm Eastern on
Wednesday, Jan 14.  They'll be on hand to answer questions about
running a label, finding and working with cutting edge artists, how to
get in the business, and much more!

*****Year End Poll******
While listening to the show don't forget to vote in the Groove Lounge
Year End Poll at ->  http://www1.rocktroplis.com/groove/poll.asp

Coming soon...

Electric Sky Church Cybercast - Wednesday, January 21
Mighty-Bop Cybercast - Wednesday, January 28
Straight No Chaser Issue #45


* All shows begin at 8 PM Eastern*

http://www.groovelounge.com
http://www.straightnochaser.com

In order to subscribe to groovelounge, simply send email to
"majordomo@n2k.com" with following command in the body of your message:

    subscribe groovelounge [your email address]

<< end of forwarded material >>

_______________________
EIGHTH DIMENSION, Inc.
P.O. Box 1909
Orlando, Florida 32802 USA
PH: (407) 420-4669
FX: (407) 422-8895
EMAIL: badmood@earthlink.net

"Repetition is a form of change."
                   -Oblique Strategy



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 03:52:54 1998
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To: Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>
CC: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!)
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Adam Weiss wrote:
> 
> hey folks,
> 
> my name is adam and i have been lurking on here for a while.  i am
> posting to ask you to please not use aliases when posting to this list.
> the email software i am using (ms outlook) seems to get confused
> whenever there is an alias for the "sfraves@hyperreal.org" in the to
> field..  examples "Ravermail" or "You're Busted!" and others.  whenever
> the address isn't "sfraves@hyperreal.org" it ends up in my work inbox...
> i have tried adding the aliases one by one but it seems like there is an
> awful lot of them...
> 
> thanks in advance...
> 
> --adam
> 
> (if anyone knows how to get ms outlook to filter correctly... please e/m
> me)
Ummmm how about trying a different E-Mail client? Just a simple thought!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 04:11:59 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:42:31 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, matt@saturn5.com
Subject: Re:  Re: Oh, and one more thing about smoking....
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In a message dated 1/14/98 3:21:01 PM, you wrote:

<<dude-

chill....  the power of addiction is much greater than you make it out to
be.  your comments really don't add anything constructive that can help a
non-smoker stop smoking.  your comments don't really say anything that
smokers haven't heard yet.  and you come accross as intollerant.

now, if you'd like to discuss positive ways that parties might allow
people like you and me to stay away from smoke while allowing smokers the
ability to do so, lets talk about that.

later->>

Matt-

I apologize for having an opinion. But the facts are the facts. I am not a
professional empath like you purport to be, and  I wholeheartedly admit to
having no sympathy for people who choose to smoke. In any event, I doubt the
majority of smokers would want me to have sympathy for them solely based on
the fact that they smoke.  Many of them obviously dont have a lot of sympathy
for non-smokers like myself.

You want me to suggest constructive means for smokers in parties to do what
they do? I've mentioned it before: step outside and smoke, the reality is that
the vast majority of clubs in SF do allow ins and outs. Outside of that is the
warehouses, and the law isn't applicable in those places so I guess people
like us will just have to deal. The other option is that they can quit. But
I've said that before and apparently that view isnt empathic enough for you.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 04:19:41 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:19:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: RE: The new law...
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Just because you are free to do something doesn't mean you have to do it.

I would much rather be at a rave where I knew that I was free to smoke, 
but I (and others) *chose* not to due to social norms or out of respect 
for the location or other guests.  I mean, for Pete's sake (who's Pete?!) 
I guess you're free to walk around the party farting on people, but folks 
don't do it because there's a social norm keeping that from happeneing, 
you know?  I think farts are just about as offensive as second-hand 
smoke, and I'm willing to bet we can get some folks to determine that 
they cause cancer (we already know that methane is a leading green-house 
gas and is contributing to ozone-layer holes!) but there aren't any 
anti-farting laws, now are there?

There doesn't need to be a law there to tell you *everything* that you 
should and should not do.  There's a difference between a law and a 
social norm, too.  If the group I hang out with doesn't condone a certain 
behavior, I have a choice to modify my behavior or leave the group.  If 
The State is continually building laws to regulate my behavior, I'm just 
another character in Orwell's _1984_ or Huxley's _Brave New World_.

I agree that there's a big difference between freedom and respect, but I 
see them as complimentary, not opositional.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 04:35:02 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <40dcc4ef.34bd909a@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:29:08 EST
To: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: surfs up...lets party
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In a message dated 98-01-14 15:24:40 EST, fish1111@pacbell.net writes:

<< 
 Well im not a surfer but i just heard the waves in Pacifica
 are at 25 feet. Even though i dont surf i would love to see
 this. Any one like to have a small beach party this weekend? 
 Nothing too big or complicated...just a few friends or fellow
 sfravers...i can bring the eye candy and a few cds if we dont
 have a record spinner type person.
 
 	><{{{">  <"}}}>< >>

May I pose a question?  You say eye candy, but, umm, wouldn't that be natures
job if this were to happen on a beach with 25 ft. waves?
:)
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 04:36:45 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:36:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Re: The New Law...
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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> If you still are worried, make a formal complaint, and you'll see what a
> $1,000 fine will get you (they have to sell plenty of booze to make up for
> those $$$'s BTW).  Even going to a bar is cool again.
> >>
> 
> THANK YOU! 
> 
> John S Lee rides again! FYI though, my understanding of the law is that a $100
> fine is levied after a first complaint, $200, and $400 after successive
> complaints, and THEN the $1000 fine.
> 

I hope to God that people don't start "narcing" each other out in The 
Scene.  Why is that kind of thing sooo enjoyable to some folks?  I 
remember someone getting really pissed because they got booted from a 
club because someone narced them out for seeimg a bit too drunk a little 
while back.  This violation of personal freedom and freedom of 
intoxication was presented as an outrage.  But file a complaint about a 
smoker?  Yeah yeah do that!  Do that here and now and "THANK YOU!" for 
the advice to do so.

Please kids, tell me this is some sick joke.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 04:55:27 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bc85cbf5.34bd93f0@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:42:41 EST
To: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: surfs up...lets party
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In a message dated 98-01-14 17:31:55 EST, fish1111@pacbell.net writes:

<< .and there are no smoking restrictions for those
 that suck...(suck on cigs that is) >>


BUT WAIT!!! one of my least favorite things to see at the beach are discarded
cig butts, so if ya gotta smoke on that vast sandy thang, please please
PLEASE!!! pick up you butts, save em till you get back, put em in yo pocket,
EAT THEM if you choose, I don't care, just please do not throw them on the
sand.  Maybe the butts do biodegrate, but it takes time and in the meantime,
they look ugly mixed in with the sand.  OK.  So that's all of my earth
consious preaching for now.

Have fun at the beach!! just pick up those butts!!  Future generations will
thank you:)

Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 04:56:39 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:55:17 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: b e n c h u n <benchun@MIT.EDU>
Subject: BSP: sustainable pleasure
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my first BSP!

tomorrow jan. 15, 1998
6:30-9 pm
cafe baci, vacaville, california

jazzy drum and bass
DJ matt davison

this really isn't a very big deal, basically we just convinced a local cafe
to let us come down and spin... but it's a cool place and we get to bring
the music out, and i wanted to let you all know! email me for more details...


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 05:26:27 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:24:55 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: The new law...
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Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the law state that you can't smoke in any
establishment that servers food or drink to the public....


just a thought	 		

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 06:03:26 1998
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Subject: Re: The New Law..."Humans are inherently good" tangent
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John S. Lee wrote:
> 
> At 1:16 PM -0800 1/14/98, Robert Pointer wrote:
> <snip comments, all good btw>

John,

Thank you for the polite and complimentary *snip*. No pain at all :). I was
hoping that my comments would create a response because I am having this very
debate within the office now and I am in the minority on this one. Let me see
if I can extrapolate a little further into my argument in light of your comments:

-----------------------
> >Anyway something that John L. brought up makes me feel compelled say something
> >concerning the statement below:
> >
> >> Humans are often so unreasonable that if it weren't for laws we would be at
> >> each others throat.  Especially on this rock called the USA.  Unfortunately
> >> for us, laws keep us civil, and that's a sad statement to make about
> >> humanity in general.
> >
> >
> >This statement implies that people are inherently bad.
> 
> No it implies people will act with their own best interests in mind.  This
> is sometimes counter to what could be called *your* best interests.   That
> is where potential conflict lies.
-----------------------

One of the basic tenets to my argument (of which I did not illustrate in my
first email) is this: Motive of action is not what matters to me, but rather
the action itself. Thoughts and Motivations cannot be quantified, but actions can.
This, of course, is very useful definition when trying to prove something!
Anyway, it is o.k. to think you are acting in your own best interest if along
the way you are helping others. There is much good in that (in the basic *and*
moral definitions of the word). 
Granted, we humans are not perfect, but we are far, far, from being only
self-interested. The classic example (taken from aristotle or plato, can't
remember which actually) is this:

Does one become a doctor to heal only oneself? No. Certainly the advantage is
there, but it is not even close to being the driving reason behind learning
the art of healing. (remember as well that doctors, healers, physicians have
been around a lot longer than when the profession was worth tons 'o money!) It
is, by necessity, done to help others who are sick.

The same goes for a Captain of the ship. Doesn't he make decisions based on
his own self-interest *as well as* for his crew's interests and his guests
safety? There is self-interest as well as a genuine interest in helping others
too for the captain. Both can exist and not be contradictory or in opposition
to each other. 

This is where, I feel, the human race stands. Conflict can (and certianly
does) exist, but it is *not* the general rule of thumb for humanity. As
humans, we have to help one another to survive by necessity. 

If we can agree that one of the definitions of good is helping others, then we
have to agree that humans are inherently good by the aforementioned definition
because they must help each other. [Even if it is survival that prompts us to
do so. Again, motivation and thoughts aside, it is actions that matter. ] 

Something else: Humans create laws (either by government or social construct)
that govern our behavior for the better. So when there is someone who acts in
a wrongful or evil way (that is: counter to good), we create punishments for
this. Every society that has existed has done this to preserve a good way of
life against those who may transgress against the common good. This is a
consistent thread throughout history (in the West *and* the East), and further
proves that people value taking care of each other is an overriding goal of
our species.

The sheer number of people that exist on our planet versus the amount of
killing, wars, and downright evil things that happen are small number compared
to the billions that live amongst each other without harm.

Statistically it would take over 2 billion people to be inherently bad (or
"evil") to prove that that the majority of the human race doesn't act with
reference to each other's benefit. I would submit to you again, that if this
were true, our entire species would disappear due to our apparent need to only
help ourselves as individuals.

Quantitatively and qualitatively it is true. We are inherently good.



-----------------------
> 
> Face it, we can't handle unbridled freedom.  Show me ONE free society and
> I'll show you one in complete ruin.

-----------------------



Without demanding what the definition of a "free" society is I will still
throw in my .02.
Of course one should say that complete freedom for everyone is freedom for
no-one as well. Furthermore, there is no value to something that everyone
equally has. That is why there has never been ONE "unbridled" free society
ever in the history of man, because humanity does not desire to live in an
"unbridled" environment. We are social creatures by nature and desire to
create hiearchy and "pecking" orders in order to provide order (to preserve
the good). 
There is no-way to prove the above statement because there is not a desire in
humanity to live that way.
What you are referring to is what many political philosophers regard as "state
of nature" where there is no rationalism and "passions" rule the land.
Fortunately this state does not exist, for if it did, we'd all kill each other.



-----------------------
> 
> > I absolutely disagree
> >with this. Humanity, in general, is good.
> 
> Humanity in general is humanity.  And humanity has more dirt on it,
> considering it's vast *intelligence* than any other species.  Yes, we've
> done some interesting things as a species.  But as for perpetuation of our
> kind, we put ourselves in peril constantly (the environment, unbridled
> consumption, etc.).
-----------------------


Again, we are not perfect, but we are always striving to help each other
survive. We make mistakes, but we also change our ways. We also try to create
things that perpetuate a good once it is found. This is a valuable trait (and
a good one) that allows humanity to survive. 
This is another key factor to consider whether humanity is "just humanity" [
which is no definition at all and really doesn't say anything ] or whether we
contain within ourselves an inherent goodness. 


-----------------------
> > Everything that surrounds our lives
> >(social constructs, laws, major religions, etc.) is created by us (humans).
> >These things are created to support the good qualities that we need to
> >continue our existence in a meaningful way.
> 
> To me this is a pollyanna view, no insult meant.  The things you mention
> are there to uphold certain standards of behavior we have, in general
> agreed to encourage.  Often times it is at a cost to those not thought
> about  in the original conception of said concepts (the fact that most
> major religions are male centric is an example of this view).
-----------------------


To harp on your one example: Have we not begun to accept women as equals? Have
we not begun to change the way religon accepts women? Granted, we are not
anywhere close to fixing these transgressions, but it's been recognized as
something we need to change. We have labeled it "bad" vs. "good". This says
something about us. Also, I am not referring to the leadership of the religion
(male vs. female), but rather the common fundamental views of the major
religions (Hindu, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc.) that
helping others is an important and sacred thing.
Anyway, despite our faults today (and the ones we will surely commit
tomorrow), we are *today* living with each other with minimal conflict. I
can't stress enough how important it is to realize that if the human race were
not dedicated to helping each other, we would not survive as a species nor
even live anywhere close to how we live today (whether you are in a hut in
Africa, a house in America, or in a cave in Siberia). We would be at war with
one another always and constantly, without end.


----------------------- 
> >If humans in general, were not
> >good at heart, there is no way that all of these things that we use to run our
> >lives (government, churches, families, etc.) would ever continue to exist.
> 
> Faulty logic.  They continue to exist because there is a benefit to the
> person or people they are intended to help.  Which happens to be the very
> rich often male population.
-----------------------

I think I answered this in the beginning paragraph.

-----------------------
> >We would destroy them, becuase at heart, we would not support what is good.
> 
> We often support what is not good for us:
> -Fossil fuels
> -War
> -Poverty
> -Pestilence
> -The various isms.
-----------------------

Do you think that you are the only one that recognizes that the above things
are bad? Probably not, sooooo... my point is this: We know these things are
bad and when given a chance, we stop it or work towards ending it. This
happens when the majority (as it always does) says, "enough is enough." But
the very fact that you are aware of these "bad" things means that someone has
brought it to your attention in the hopes that *you* as well as *others* will
do something to stop it. This something about us when we label these things as
wrong. More than likely your actions will not support the above things where
you are aware of it.

-----------------------
> >In fact, it is hard for me to believe anything otherwise considering there are
> >over 4 billion people on this planet and we can continue to live amongst each
> >other in overwhelming harmony.
> 
> Are you kidding?  Let's say that you prefer to look at the good for
> arguments sake.  That will not erase Burundi's, Tibets, Rwanda's, BOsnia,
> our CONTINUED war with Iraq & Iran and over half of the muslim world.  Our
> perpetuation of chemical weapons...geez I could go on.
-----------------------

Nope. I am not kidding. Add up all the people that are involved in a "bad"
conflict or in the process of harming another human in the world. Doesn't add
up to being anywhere close to the other 3 and half billion people that have no
beef with those around them.
Statistically it cannot be denied. People are inherently good.


-----------------------
> We live in harmony because we are cloistered Americans, dull to the real
> pain that occurs in almost every country other than ours.  Let's not get me
> started on the 20% of kids in this country who starve, the massive child
> abuse, the neglect this society has of it's children, executions of the
> mentally ill, executions?  Harmony?  It's only at CERTAIN raves I tell ya.
> Real life is often brutal for the vast majority of the citizens of this
> planet.
-----------------------

This is the toughest to answer without seeming like I'm an evil person, but
let me give it a try:

(Sidenote: Whether we are cloistered or not, you admit that we live in harmony
here in the good 'ol heartland ;). This seems a teensy weensy bit step towards
what I'm advocating dontcha think?)

o.k., time to get evil:

Starving children vs. children that are fed continually? 
Executions of the mentally ill vs. those that are taken care of?
Children that are abused vs. those that are loved and taken care of?

Common sense tells us that the latter in each question far outnumber those
that are done harm against. It must also be admitted that there are far more
people helping these groups than those trying to commit the atrocities against them.
What you have identified as representing the character of the human race, is,
in fact represented by a minority of those within our species. It doesn't
excuse the atrocities by any stretch of the imagination, but it IS NOT a
complete representation of our character. 

(It also means that we still have much work to do to help these people.)

----------------------- 
> >You say that laws protect us from the bad parts of humanity.
> 
> Laws protect us from each other, that is my point.
> 
> >This is exactly my point.
> >We created it and the majority support it. Therefore humanity must be on the
> >side of good rather than bad.
> 
> The majority supports nothing.  Shit the majority doesn't even vote.
-----------------------

The majority must support what we live under (laws, etc.) or else it (the
infrastructure) wouldn't exist. Voting isn't the only way to show approval or
support, y'know.


-----------------------
> >If it were not so, everything would crumble.
> 
> Things are crumbling.  Come to the Haight sometime.  Better yet, live here
> and tell me about harmony.
-----------------------

Haight is not representative of the majority of the United States or the
world. I am sure that it is harsh there and there are many people suffering
there, but it cannot surely be a representation of humanity's entire character
or a complete representation of our living conditions everywhere. If it was,
every place where people lived would resemble what you find distasteful in Haight.

-----------------------
> >When I go to Raves [oh so seldom these days  :( ], this is the attitude I take
> >with me.
> 
> Good thing IMO, cause the real world is still not the prettiest place
> sometimes.  Thus our need for various escape routes from time to time.
> Life is good yes, but it is coupled with brutality and stress as the
> machine rolls on, unattended.
-----------------------

I'm glad that you agree that it is a good thing to attend raves with this
opinion. (I knew that you would. I've read enough of your posts that I knew
you would support such an ideal.).
But anyway, I have to make something clear about why I believe the way I do:

I believe this way because I believe in the human species' ability to do good
things that help us live together peacefully and in harmony with our
environment. I believe that my perspective *is the perspective we need* that
will allow us to grow into something magnificent. My belief tells me we can
achieve good things for all because it is inherent to us. This belief creates
the doorway for great possibilities to happen. It makes me diligent to things
that are wrong that need to be changed. 

It means that I know that I am empowered to change things for the better
because it is my nature as a human to help others.

That is what makes me human.

This is what defines humanity.


Take care,

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 06:27:40 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:27:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: And one more thing!
To: Ravers in the Southland <socal-raves@ucsd.edu>
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Happy Wednesday by the way!!

I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of us had a pretty good time last 
weekend (me included). :)

God, I hate Wednesday.  I wish I could just skip straight from Tuesday 
night to Friday afternoon. :D :D :D


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 06:27:44 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:31:55 -0800
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To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Raver parading madpeople,


>         However, if this were a political rally and all these ravers and
> clubbers marched on Washington 1 million strong to demonstrate that our
> generation is able to rally itself under a cause and demonstrate the power
> of the future electorate, I would totally go.

What cause would Ravers unite under that would warrant such a massive march?
Not to diss the "raver" philosophy too harshly, but I haven't heard too many
meaningful "political" stances occur out of the raving circle...

hmmmm.....

Raves - 

right to dance?
right to hear music?
right to assemble? (stronger...)
right to take drugs?
right to DJ? (Getting weaker...)
right to pontificate about PLUR (ah yes, this would be it)


oh well.

;)

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

p.s. *I do need to go out again. I think I'm losing the faith...*

PLANET CRACK ROCK - HERE I COME!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 06:52:01 1998
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From: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
Subject: no **QUESTION REALITY**
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Damn.... due to stupid landlords.. and an unforseen
change in there minds....we are unable to have
Question Reality as planned.. on Jan. 31st.....but
look out for ASR productions after soon..
enough....we will hit ya wit sumthin .. u'll never
forget
love jeremy


===

~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~








From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 07:11:27 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: <rwpointer@citiscape.com>, "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>,
  <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, <joe@citiscape.com>, <dave@citiscape.com>,
  <mike@citiscape.com>, <josh@citiscape.com>
Subject: NRR Re: The New Law..."Humans are inherently good" tangent
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:01:59 -0800
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This debate seems pointless to me, as I do not believe in the terms
good or bad. They are all relative and over-generalizations....

first, define good and bad and then perhaps i will be interested in 
the debate...but to say things as simply as "people are bad" or
"people are good" ........

*shrug*

-kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!

Robert Pointer wrote:

>Quantitatively and qualitatively it is true. We are inherently good.





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 07:20:06 1998
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.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
> 
> This debate seems pointless to me, as I do not believe in the terms
> good or bad. They are all relative and over-generalizations....
> 
> first, define good and bad and then perhaps i will be interested in
> the debate...but to say things as simply as "people are bad" or
> "people are good" ........


free water=good

$5 water= bad

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 07:43:38 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:41:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
cc: San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "Chris 'Jack' Hart" <jack@twaxx.com>, Geoff White <geoffw@v-site.net>,
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Subject: Re: is this for real? (Miss. Legislature House Bill 196)
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my breasts..
for the love of god take my breasts...

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Niels P. Mayer wrote:

> 
> Cool. The war on drugs meets sharia law!
> 
> Taken from ftp://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/1998/HB/0100-0199/HB0196IN.htm
> --------------------
> 
> MISSISSIPPI LEGISLATURE
> 
> 1998 Regular Session
> 
> To: Judiciary A
> 
> By: Representative Moak
> 
>                                           House Bill 196
> 
> AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE REMOVAL OF A BODY PART IN LIEU OF OTHER
> SENTENCES IMPOSED BY THE COURT FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE
> CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES LAW; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES. 
> 
> BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI:
> 
> SECTION 1. In lieu of any other penalty prescribed by law, the court
> may allow any person who is convicted for a violation of the Controlled
> Substances Law to have a body part removed. The convicted person and
> the court must agree on which body part shall be removed.
> 
> SECTION 2. This act shall take effect and be in force from and after
> July 1, 1998.
> 
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> ==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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> naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ==
> =RUx1
> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 07:45:50 1998
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In-Reply-To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
        "Re: is this for real? (Miss. Legislature House Bill 196)" (Jan 15,  2:41am)
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To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>, "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
Subject: Re: is this for real? (Miss. Legislature House Bill 196)
Cc: jack@twaxx.com, Geoff White <geoffw@v-site.net>,
  Jason Grotte <jason@v-site.net>, Jonathan Magid <jem@sunsite.unc.edu>,
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my breasts..
for the love of god take my breasts...
---------
I have some toenail I'm willing to part with...

-=j=-


-- 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 07:50:10 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>, "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
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Subject: NRR Re: is this for real? (Miss. Legislature House Bill 196)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:40:31 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: lara at vibe.org <lara@vibe.org>
Subject: Re: is this for real? (Miss. Legislature House Bill 196)

>my breasts..
>for the love of god take my breasts...

Now that's an offer I can't refuse....

-kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 07:50:14 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:51:26 -0800
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>, Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>
From: andy@pythagoras.org (Andrew Nourse)
Subject: Re: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!) (NRR)
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 03:42 PM 1/14/98 -0800, Niels P. Mayer wrote:
>
>> my name is adam and i have been lurking on here for a while.  i am
>> posting to ask you to please not use aliases when posting to this list.
>> the email software i am using (ms outlook) seems to get confused
>> whenever there is an alias for the "sfraves@hyperreal.org" in the to
>> field..  examples "Ravermail" or "You're Busted!" and others.  whenever
>> the address isn't "sfraves@hyperreal.org" it ends up in my work inbox...

>Wait, lemme get this straight. The goons up in Redmond create a piece
>of shit mail program that can't even handle RFC-822 standard address
>headers correctly (even though a toddler could write a program to parse
>said headers in their myriad (2) different formats) ... and we're all
>supposed to go changing our extremely witty "names" for the list such
>as "San FranDisco Ravers List."

People seem to be doing all sorts of perverse things to accomodate these
brain-dead
mail programs.  Some lists are prefixing the subject name of every message.
 Others
set the list address to be the From: field all the time (making
reply-to-sender send
to the list -- not good).

>Why don't you just submit a bug report to microslotht instead?

Please do.  If enough people do it,  *maybe* they might add Sender: as a
filterable item at least.

>Or try keying off a different field than the "To:" or "Cc:" line. Every
>piece of mail on sfraves has an additional field  "Sender:
>sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org" -- why don't you tell Exchange (a name
>which tells you what to do w/ the shitware you just bought) about that
>header instead?

I've been trying to find a way to do that.  There doesn't seem to be any
way in Outlook Express.  These mail programs only know about To:, From:,
CC:, and Subject:!  If you fill in more than one, it assumes that both must
match,
so you need 2 filters for every list.
Putting other headers into the registry manually doesn't help -- it ignores
them.

That's why I use Eudora, despite its less-than-wonderful user interface.
It has much better filtering.

>For example, I use MH's slocal (a libre program available for any Unix
>system) and I filter sfraves with:
>Sender sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org ^ ? "/usr/local/lib/mh6.7/rcvstore
+sfraves"
>Sender sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org ^ ? "/usr/local/lib/mh6.7/rcvstore
+sfraves"

I would not surprise me if some of the listers here would find this a bit
intimidating.

>PS: microsoft sucks.

That's why I've gotten so much practice reverse-engineering their operating
systems.


> long live Linux and libre software.

There is just too much commercial Windows software I don't want to do without.
Like word processors.  Emacs is a wonderful text editor, but a word
processor it isn't.
Like the software to back up my Pilot.  Distant Suns (astronomy program).
Tax software.
That delightful screensaver I have with the cats.

The Tie-Dyed Side of the Force


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 07:51:34 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:49:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
cc: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: surfs up...lets party
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... but ms.k1dd my darlin, 
IT LOOKS SO MUCH LIKE A HUGE ASHTRAY!!!
just jokin, i hate seein' them litter the beaches too ;))
xo
lara

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Just a K1D wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-14 17:31:55 EST, fish1111@pacbell.net writes:
> 
> << .and there are no smoking restrictions for those
>  that suck...(suck on cigs that is) >>
> 
> 
> BUT WAIT!!! one of my least favorite things to see at the beach are discarded
> cig butts, so if ya gotta smoke on that vast sandy thang, please please
> PLEASE!!! pick up you butts, save em till you get back, put em in yo pocket,
> EAT THEM if you choose, I don't care, just please do not throw them on the
> sand.  Maybe the butts do biodegrate, but it takes time and in the meantime,
> they look ugly mixed in with the sand.  OK.  So that's all of my earth
> consious preaching for now.
> 
> Have fun at the beach!! just pick up those butts!!  Future generations will
> thank you:)
> 
> Ms. K1dd
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 08:01:33 1998
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Kim et al.,

Ahhh, I'm one not to let an opportunity pass me by, Soooo....

I said: "People are good."

Good is defined in the webster dictionary as:

"of favorable character or tendency", "free from injury or disease", "not
depreciated", "certain to last or live", "certain to pay or contribute",
"deserving of respect", "virtuous, just, commendable", "Right, kind, benevolent".

But more to the point I was trying to make:

"something conforming to the moral order of the universe, praiseworthy
character, advancement of prosperity or health (the "good" of the community)."

That should help you understand my point better and hopefully you can see my
argument a little more clearly. 
BTW, if you don't believe in the terms "good" or "bad" (or equivalent
monikers) then how can you critique anything?

You can't. It's impossible.

Without a stance or perspective you have no way of making a contribution
anyway. This is one of the great problems with people who have no strong convictions.

Anyway, love your fellow human (even if it only happens at raves),

=:)

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
> 
> This debate seems pointless to me, as I do not believe in the terms
> good or bad. They are all relative and over-generalizations....
> 
> first, define good and bad and then perhaps i will be interested in
> the debate...but to say things as simply as "people are bad" or
> "people are good" ........
> 
> *shrug*
> 
> -kim

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 08:09:36 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: Ruth Jennison <ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Ruth Jennison wrote:

> Hmmm. So is Rodricks Chamber still in action? Where does it go down?
> 
> 
-->Apparently last night was a one-off type of deal and next Tuesday
Roderick's chamber will be back at its old Harrison location.  However,
due to the success of last night's House of Usher rebirth expect to see
House of Usher at Soundfactory again--but there is a glitch; if House of
Usher is a success, don't expect Roderick's to last for long. That's what
the guy on the microphone said anyways.
	You know, it's been a long time since I went gothing and saw
everyone so dressed up; up to their knives so to speak.  Hey Joe Rice,
were you there last night? I arrived at the witching hour of midnite and
caused quite a stir...actually, it wasn't me, but the huge white Marie
Antoinette headress I had on that made my head look like cotton candy.
Thank gawd I didn't trip on my cape and cause a major faux pas...can you
imagine that damned ball of white fluffed and teased filament hitting
someone in the face and destroy their whiteface? I was also very impressed
by some very ingenous uses of latex and rubber; I just wonder how they
got into those things; Jessica "dominatrix" Rabbit all over again.
	Standing there in the industrial room I was reminded oh so dearly
by the gabber and hardcore scene, there were even some cute punks hugging
the speakers :)  But all in all, the music in the main room was the best
ever, but it was damned hard to dance with so many people on the floor. I
had a wonderful time though, I must say.


:)
M&m
"da dark buddahflye...sometimes"

PS	I remember trying to go to the Aquarium by the Berkeley Marina for
a gothing a very long ago night, but they were closed...so we eventually
ended up at Teargarden.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 08:14:27 1998
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From: ASYDFANMAN <ASYDFANMAN@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cae72dd.34bdc516@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:13:08 EST
To: benchun@MIT.EDU
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: more on smoke
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 I want to buy stock in your new company, 
                                                          Carli

In a message dated 1/14/98 12:08:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, benchun@MIT.EDU
writes:

<< ya know, this is a tough one. i mean, people who do smoke should have the
 right to, yet people who don't should also have the right to be free of the
 stuff. well.... leave it to me to invent the PERFECT solution: the
 smoke-o-matic. this is a simple ceiling mounted device that consists of a
 clear plastic dome on a long hose. at the roof, there is a fan mounted in a
 weather-proof housing which maintains a constant flux of air, going out.
 want to light up? just reach for a dome, pull it down to you, puff away,
 and all your smoke is quickly and cleanly sent out into the night! of
 course, you probably wouldn't look quite so cool with a plastic dome over
 your head. hmmmm. maybe it's time to get some sleep.
 
 
 .. . . . . . .
 benchun@mit.edu
 http://mdma.mit.edu/ >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 08:18:53 1998
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Message-ID: <3038045e.34bdc664@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:18:42 EST
To: deepfog@hooked.net
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: 604E
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 why do you have to be a mac head to know what a cpu is?


In a message dated 1/14/98 5:58:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
deepfog@hooked.net writes:

<< Subj:	 604E
 Date:	1/14/98 5:58:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
 From:	deepfog@hooked.net (Deepfog)
 Sender:	sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
 To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org (SFRavEs Mailing List)
 
 nothing.
 
 i just wanted to write something with a cool subject.
 
 you macheads should know what im talkin about.
 
 ;]
 
  >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 08:58:39 1998
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To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
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Subject: Re: raves and politics was:Re: Raver Parade
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, .oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:

> In my opinion, that is a positive thing...that ravers are not involved
> in bullshit politics....by being un-involved you are making just as
> big of a statement as wandering around with placards and signs...

-->No, I think you are wrong. You are not making a big statement by being
uninvolved because no one will know what your statement is. I think the
political process of this nation demands involvement and active
participation, otherwise you'll just get bulldozed. Isn't it bad enough
that the minority have to live with the decrees of the majority?
	I don't have the most sparkling views regarding politics and I am
disaffected by the process, but I don't not participate either.  It's easy
to just be inactive and let the shit run its course and then sit back and
moan and groan and bitch about how fascist everything is, but you don't
have the pregorative to do that because you didn't participate and try to
stop the shit from happening in the first place.
	I don't advertise that I am a raver either (well, sometimes) by
wearing placards and smiley faces and pacifiers around my neck because I
don't give much weight to the idea that superficial image could possibly
encompass the whole ME or the whole YOU. Image is fun to play with, and I
wear different guises all the time, but underneath all the glitter I still
have my own opinions and hopefully my own thoughts and I am not afraid to
back them up. I might not carry a screaming sign, but I am able to hold my
own under discussions and that in its way is participating in the process.


> 
> i like the fact that ravers don't feel the need to run full color ads
> advertising in magazines or television.
> "You, too, can be a raver, or just look
> like one! DUN DUN Rave-a-zon! DUN DUN DUN DUN"

-->Ravers might not do that but various other companies like Sketchers,
7-up, Red Bull, and Diesel sure don't share that particular reservation.
Wasn't there a previous thread about abuse and plunder of this "scene" and
how people ran into tricked out kids just to find out they were imitating
the latest fashion spread? The rave and clubber scene has always been ripe
for plunder because it is so easy to separate the cash from the kid;
just count the frequency of posts concerning promoter atrocities on this
list. Maybe the reason ravers don't have to run full color ads is because
so many others not in the raving scene have already stolen our voices and
beat us to the presses.


> 
> i like the fact that the majority of them don't try and "convert" other
> people to their way of thinking.....
> 
> -kim

-->Who said anything about converting? I think its enough to march on
Washington just to show those bastards that we have the power and to
remind them that we placed them in office too; not just our parents.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
> To: Minh Q. Le <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 10:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Raver Parade
> 
> 
> >Raver parading madpeople,
> >
> >
> >>         However, if this were a political rally and all these ravers and
> >> clubbers marched on Washington 1 million strong to demonstrate that our
> >> generation is able to rally itself under a cause and demonstrate the
> power
> >> of the future electorate, I would totally go.
> >
> >What cause would Ravers unite under that would warrant such a massive
> march?
> >Not to diss the "raver" philosophy too harshly, but I haven't heard too
> many
> >meaningful "political" stances occur out of the raving circle...
> >
> >hmmmm.....
> >
> >Raves -
> >
> >right to dance?
> >right to hear music?
> >right to assemble? (stronger...)
> >right to take drugs?
> >right to DJ? (Getting weaker...)
> >right to pontificate about PLUR (ah yes, this would be it)
> >

-->Well, I've seen the combination of techno and altruism...it's not a
pretty sight. If anything else, it's kinda lame (be happy, save the earth,
listen to techno, don't pollute, free love, etc. etc.) since not everyone
else is on X and they don't have a clue of what you are babbling about.
What's wrong about rally around PLUR?  It is applicable to all of
life, not just to raves, and I think it would demistify raving a bit to
let the establishment know that this is a philsophy that is non"dangerous"
and is able to stand on its own without drugs (can it?)...but since this
is a hypthetical situation it's just an esoteric excercise.


:)
M&m




> >
> >p.s. *I do need to go out again. I think I'm losing the faith...*
> >
> >PLANET CRACK ROCK - HERE I COME!
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 09:13:35 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>,
  "'blkadder@value.net'" <blkadder@value.net>
Cc: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>, Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>,
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good point.  i have to agree with you there.  personally, i don't think
it should be illegal to smoke in bars.  I DO think that A) if it's
illegal for minors to smoke or buy cigarettes, then it should be illegal
to smoke in places where minors are present.  otherwise it's kinda a
loophole in the law.  i mean, if they can't inhale the smoke first hand,
why should they get it second hand?  so where does that leave us?  i
guess smoking should be legal in bars, and illegal at raves.  funny
where the twists of logic lead you....


dodger

> ----------
> From: 	blkadder@value.net[SMTP:blkadder@value.net]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, January 14, 1998 11:53 AM
> To: 	Stirling, Earl
> Cc: 	Matthew Kodama; Noah Apodaca; SugeR; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: 	RE: The New Law...
> 
> On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Stirling, Earl wrote:
> 
> > sure, that's fine.  but i attend raves FOR THE MUSIC AND DANCING.
> and
> > they all have second hand smoke.  should i not go to raves?
> 
> Where you go is up to you. It is my opinion that is should be the
> venue
> owners decision as to who they are catering to, smokers, non-smokers
> or
> acommodating both.
> 
> And since businesses are mostly profit-driven, the owner will in all
> likelyhood choose a policy that matches the wishes of the majority of
> his
> clientel if they wish to have them for long. 
> 
> And in case anyone wants to try to use the argument... I am an
> ex-smoker.
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 11:05:12 1998
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        "SF Weekly article" (Jan 14,  4:57pm)
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Interesting, Diana is quoted as taking the blame for requesting the
permits too late in the process.  That's either noble or spin control.
One of the interesting issues is whether the Oakland PD even has the
authority to limit the number of such permits.  At least we seem to be
getting closer to the truth here.

phred

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 11:56:19 1998
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From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, dhchung@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........))))))))))) (fwd)
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	New updated and corrected version	

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:56:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........))))))))))) (fwd)

	

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:22:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, dhchung@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........))))))))))) (fwd)

	

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:32:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Marco Mancia <marco@www.ina.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: TranceFactory.........)))))))))))

Jan. 17th                The Trance & Jungle Facotry



          Vertigo



										           
Thomas Trouble

			B.A.S.S. Kru

		     Star Eyes
 

          Rinse



													Flux

                         and possibly others





       trip-chill room



		      speAkeR  "23"

Limited amount of pre-sales only at the TranceFactory)))))))))))))))))

call the TranceFactory at 510-704-9876

ps-just added Melanie of SF House Collective 
   Boomerang Fidget




-marco

:-)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 15:09:10 1998
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Macs would be so much better if they had decient multitasking!

-idw
"rain + motorcycles = :^("
idw@hotmail.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 17:01:15 1998
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A  ><FISH>  Wrote: 
> free water=good

For who?

> $5 water= bad

For who? 

There are two sides to every coin.

> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish

-Faro 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 17:01:24 1998
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> Granted, we humans are not perfect, but we are far, far, from being only
> self-interested. The classic example (taken from aristotle or plato, can't
> remember which actually) is this:
> 
> Does one become a doctor to heal only oneself? No. Certainly the advantage is
> there, but it is not even close to being the driving reason behind learning
> the art of healing. (remember as well that doctors, healers, physicians have
> been around a lot longer than when the profession was worth tons 'o money!) It
> is, by necessity, done to help others who are sick.
>

Another senario:

A doctor manages to pass medical school, and his heart is in the 
right place.. He really wants to help people and is not in it for the 
money at all, yet he is not very competent and continually botches 
his surgical procedures, and many of his patients die unnecessarily.

Question:

Is he a "good" doctor or a "bad" doctor?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As you say, the intentions of the person do not always reflect 
the effect that that person's actions have on society.

You state that "Thoughts and Motivations cannot be quantified, but 
actions can." But it is actually not that clear cut in my view. 
Because motivations and  subsequent actions necessarily have a case 
and effect relationship you can not separate the two. One has no 
meaning without the other.  While we may never truly *know* another 
person's motivation for doing something, if we ignore it completely 
then we are missing a part of the larger picture.

Part of what makes humanity so interesting is that we have different 
motivations, we think differently and therefore.. we act differently. 
We are not all clones that think alike. To illustrate:

If you put 10 different lions in a given situation, chances are all, 
or most of the lions will all react in exactly the same fashion. If 
you put 10 different people in a given situation chances are all or 
most of the people will react differently.

If you just look at the actions, the effect, or how 10 different 
people react you are missing half of the equation. The cause, the 
answer to the question: "why," lies in the motivations of the people, 
not in their subsequent action.     

Without knowing the motivation for a given action you can NEVER 
asses how "good" or "bad" the action is. Studying the action 
in the minutest detail will NEVER tell you what the intended goal of 
the action was, that forever remains hidden in the motivation. And 
without knowing that intended goal you can never know how "good" the 
action was at achieving it.
 
With this in mind re-read the senario at the top and  see if you can 
answer the question.

-Faro

Every once in a while, stop and enjoy an ice cream cone.  -- Albert Einstein

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 17:32:49 1998
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Robert Pointer wrote:

> This is where, I feel, the human race stands. Conflict can (and certianly
> does) exist, but it is *not* the general rule of thumb for humanity. As
> humans, we have to help one another to survive by necessity.
>
> If we can agree that one of the definitions of good is helping others, then we
> have to agree that humans are inherently good by the aforementioned definition
> because they must help each other. [Even if it is survival that prompts us to
> do so. Again, motivation and thoughts aside, it is actions that matter. ]
>
> Something else: Humans create laws (either by government or social construct)
> that govern our behavior for the better. So when there is someone who acts in
> a wrongful or evil way (that is: counter to good), we create punishments for
> this. Every society that has existed has done this to preserve a good way of
> life against those who may transgress against the common good. This is a
> consistent thread throughout history (in the West *and* the East), and further
> proves that people value taking care of each other is an overriding goal of
> our species.
>
> The sheer number of people that exist on our planet versus the amount of
> killing, wars, and downright evil things that happen are small number compared
> to the billions that live amongst each other without harm.
>
> Statistically it would take over 2 billion people to be inherently bad (or
> "evil") to prove that that the majority of the human race doesn't act with
> reference to each other's benefit. I would submit to you again, that if this
> were true, our entire species would disappear due to our apparent need to only
> help ourselves as individuals.
>
> Quantitatively and qualitatively it is true. We are inherently good.
>
>

Let's extrapolate with this line of thinking a bit. If I understand your argument
correctly, you put forth the nothion that by virtue of our seemingly altruistic
behaviors we demonstrate our "goodness". As an aside I must say I find no use in
coloring life as good or bad. These are relative terms, so grounded in subjectivity that
I doubt any two minds would have a complete overlap in their definition. My question to
you is this. Was Hitler by your definition good. Some of his actions greatly benifited
the German state, heralding a new era of prosperity. Maybe using Hitler is a little to
specific and stereotypical. Let's say any high ranking German officer in the SS. Now its
conceivable to assume that many of these officers had families which they loved and
cared for. They loved their county and their laws, which surely were designed for the
"betterment" of Nazi Germany. If your laws dictate that by virtue of genetics one race
is negatively affecting another and these laws are designed to pereserve the social
order and sanctity of the public are thse laws good. What if a majority of the citizens
support them and believe they should be upheld.All hail the power and goodness of the
benevolent state? This issue is so hard to take sides on.

> > > I absolutely disagree
> > >with this. Humanity, in general, is good.
> >
> > Humanity in general is humanity.  And humanity has more dirt on it,
> > considering it's vast *intelligence* than any other species.  Yes, we've
> > done some interesting things as a species.  But as for perpetuation of our
> > kind, we put ourselves in peril constantly (the environment, unbridled
> > consumption, etc.).
> -----------------------
>
> Again, we are not perfect, but we are always striving to help each other
> survive. We make mistakes, but we also change our ways. We also try to create
> things that perpetuate a good once it is found. This is a valuable trait (and
> a good one) that allows humanity to survive.
> This is another key factor to consider whether humanity is "just humanity" [
> which is no definition at all and really doesn't say anything ] or whether we
> contain within ourselves an inherent goodness.
>

This kind of attitude is very easy to adopt, when in our daily lives we suffer very
little from the ramifications of our actions. Whether you want to stratify this issue
along lines of culture or economic status, it's much easier for you dwelling in America
to dismiss the horor that many have to endure day in and day out and focus on "the
good". Our generation has not experienced true hardship, has not had to fight to
survive. Ideally as sentient creatures we should not have to. Realistically most people
in the world do not have the same luxury that we do. Do you really think that Union
Carbide had "changed its ways" and remidied the atrocities of the Bopauhl incident. Has
the American government spent time and energy reconnecting the indifgenous peoples with
their cultures and customs as a way of saying whoops, sorry about that trail of tears
thing. We didn't mean to nearly commit mass genocide. We're sorry.

I'm not a pessimist however. I do think that people have the power to interact lovingly
and altruistically(for a variety of internal motivations) toward others. But I don't see
it happening on a mass scale. I don't see it happening globally. And despite all the E
in the galaxy I still don't believe that "deep down inside everybody loves one another".
But I do believe that if the want to bad enough thec can choose to.

> To harp on your one example: Have we not begun to accept women as equals?

In america almost. In the majority of the globe, No. See this weeks issue of the SF
weekly for example.If you don't have it available to yopu I can excerpt you a few choice
items.

> Anyway, despite our faults today (and the ones we will surely commit
> tomorrow), we are *today* living with each other with minimal conflict.

Have you been to Isreal lately. How about Croatia. How about Hunter's Point. How about
the enterance to Golden Gate Park. How about a burning church in the south. Again unlike
the Beatles song, I can't admit that it's getting better. I would like to, but I don't
feel that that would be honest.Do you think that you are the only one that recognizes
that the above things

> are bad? Probably not, sooooo... my point is this: We know these things are
> bad and when given a chance, we stop it or work towards ending it. This
> happens when the majority (as it always does) says, "enough is enough."

I think that the assumption that people are to jaded to stand up and say enough is
enough. Perhaps you could provide some

> because it is my nature as a human to help others.
>

Me too. But I would have to call myself naieve if I thought that everyone had the same
opinion. I truly feel that most people have learned to be self centered and self
serving. Not that they can't change.

kbOOM



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 17:40:42 1998
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Subject: Re: 604E 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 98 14:17:10 PST."
             <19980114221710.16440.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> 
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 09:40:27 -0800
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> Oh step off, boyz.
> I got an Origin SGI baby. Over a gig of ram for my desktop.
> In fact, the origin is sooo big, it *is* my Desk.
> I render 3D at will.

> Sorry boys I got ya' both beat how bout' an Octane
> SGI style R10K  hehe  the mine is bigger than yours
> theory truly applies here.

Yeah, except that when i'm done buying the software for that SGI box,
plus paying SGI's over-inflated prices, it turns out you could probably
buy a separate 604E for each different finger and toe you have, and
still have money left over to buy the software you wanted.

A more fair comparison would be a VARStation YMP, with dual 300Mhz 
PentiumII's running Red Hat Linux 5.0 and/or WindowsNT
(http://www.varesearch.com/products/vy.html) . This system is complete
with all the software you'd need to do pretty much anything (no
$1000.00 C/C++ compiler as an "option" like you'd get with SGI) for
$4650 with 128M of RAM and 4.5G of disk for $4650.00. This system specs
out at:

SPECint_rate95		180
SPECfp_rate95		80.4

You could probably come up with a less memory, less disk, EIDE-based
$2500.00 Dual Pentium II system within 80% of this performance, which
means you could probably buy a whole working system for the price that
SGI charges you to upgrade from a 17" to a 19" monitor...

For comparison, this config beats an 1 processor SGI Origin200 which is
probably within 5% performance of a single processor Octane, and is
SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than $4650, esp. w/ 128M and 4.5Gig of
disk...

SPECint_rate95                92.6 
SPECfp_rate95                 139 

And these figures are for a pretty "pedestrian" Pentium system with
Intel's braindamaged (slow) slot-1 bus. In a few months, expect these 
figures to improve by 50% or more with the new fast intel buses and
450Mhz Pentium II's....

I would imagine that you'd pay $4650.00 on the SGI just to buy the
C/C++ compiler, upgrade to 128M of RAM and 4.5G of disk. You can't do
jack with an "base" SGI system (the one's with the "low low price" that
they advertise to get you to look at their boxes in the first place).
They don't have enough memory, enough disk, and almost no software
other than useless demos and some audio/video toys. I should know, I've
been writing software for SGI's for about 4-5 years now, and I'm even
writing this message on an SGI Indy I have at home. 

And it's not that I'm any big fan of Pentium systems (they're the CPU
equivalent of a turbocharged Christler Aries-K), it's just that given
it's potential, SGI has consistently shot itself in the foot in every
possible way (marketing, pricing, target, etc) other than perhaps
technical propellerheadedness. Unfortunately, for every technological
advantage you gain by SGI's propellerheadedness, you lose with SGI's
lack of economies of scale.  And SGI's stock is unfortunately a strong
indicator of just how successful SGI's "fuck the masses, we're a
boutique industry player" strategy has been. Fuck SGI, I reply, and so
have many of SGI's customers.

PS: the best part about buying a generic PentiumII/Linux system is that
when you want to run some commercial/big-name Windows software, just
boot into windows/NT and you're running a generic computer that'll run
all sorts of reasonably priced software with the same speed as you
could on the SGI. Hell, for the price of photoshop on the SGI, you
could probably buy a whole new workstation.

PPS: I'm writing this because I had high hopes for SGI (as a
shareholder and owner of SGI systems) but ultimately, I think they're
doomed to be a niche player that nobody will care about other than a
few hollywood CGI dweebs and a few people running big websites. that's
too bad because they had a good chance of at least turning the Indy/O2
series into something at least as competitive as the mac, and I'd
rather be running Irix than NT or MacOS any day. But out in industry,
you mention SGI and they'll laugh you out of the room, and tell you to
use NT, Linux, or BSDI instead. SGI's are too expensive, and with
support/software/etc the costs become astronomical. 

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 17:42:02 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Cc: <rwpointer@citiscape.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: raves and politics was:Re: Raver Parade
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:32:08 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Minh Q. Le <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>

>On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, .oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
>
>> In my opinion, that is a positive thing...that ravers are not involved
>> in bullshit politics....by being un-involved you are making just as
>> big of a statement as wandering around with placards and signs...
>
>-->No, I think you are wrong. You are not making a big statement by being
>uninvolved because no one will know what your statement is.

I am not saying that people on their own should not be involved in
politics -
i definitely think it's cool if they are. I am just saying I'm glad the rave
scene
in general is not. (and by politics i mean governmental)

By being uninvolved and throwing illegal, free parties we are definitely
making
a statement.

A statement that not everything on earth has to revolve around money, that
we don't care about stupid laws prohibiting teens and adults from dancing in
the same building (that is a law they have here in seattle called the teen
dance ordinance), that we feel that people should have REAL freedom to put
in their bodies what they want to without regard for smoking/drug laws, etc.

It's easy
>to just be inactive and let the shit run its course and then sit back and
>moan and groan and bitch about how fascist everything is, but you don't
>have the pregorative to do that because you didn't participate and try to
>stop the shit from happening in the first place.

I agree with that, and definitely think people should do their part and
participate.
I am just glad it's separate from raves.

>-->Who said anything about converting? I think its enough to march on
>Washington just to show those bastards that we have the power and to
>remind them that we placed them in office too; not just our parents.

I wouldn't disapprove of it, but I wouldn't want to label it a "raver"
thing.

love kim

.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 17:43:41 1998
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From: k bOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com>
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CC: utopia <utopia@cwia.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Tell us about your religion
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In that case. I don't have one either, but I do believe in transmogrification.
kbOOM

Reagan Reid wrote:

>  I don't really have one.....but I believe in Karma. That's about it.
>
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, utopia wrote:
>
> > Remember the "Tell us about yourself" string of messages last month?  One
> > thing not included was religion.  What is everyone's religion?
> >
> >
> >




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:07:31 1998
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Long live the Amiga!!!!!!!!!!!


kbOOM

ID W wrote:

> Macs would be so much better if they had decient multitasking!
>
> -idw
> "rain + motorcycles = :^("
> idw@hotmail.com




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:08:02 1998
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References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>        "SF Weekly article" (Jan
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At 3:05 AM -0800 1/15/98, Fred Heutte wrote:
>Interesting, Diana is quoted as taking the blame for requesting the
>permits too late in the process.  That's either noble or spin control.
>One of the interesting issues is whether the Oakland PD even has the
>authority to limit the number of such permits.  At least we seem to be
>getting closer to the truth here.
>
>phred

Oakland began limiting permits after noise complaints (regarding 2nd &
Jackson) and security issues at parties a few months ago - there was a
small write up in the Chronicle about it. The PD can also use the excuse
that they can't provide enough officers to safely monitor and patrol events
- the SFPD has pulled that one before.

Regarding Toon Town, indeed, what was quoted was true about the deadline
being missed, although I don't know that it was one person's fault. The
promoters hadn't had any problems in the past slipping permit deadlines and
didn't expect trouble this time, only to find out they were too late. A
permit for a late start (2am, I believe) was granted, however they couldn't
get that pushed earlier and the price asked by a group who possessed an all
night permit for a possible merger was exorbitant.

Joe





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:09:10 1998
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Wow! Amazing how we all progressed! This is the last place I'd expect to read
talk of goth/industrial! We've moved to hap-e-r grounds!

Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! Drug 6, Sub Club, Stargaze (well, sort of goth at one
time), Terminator (when Matt spun), Bolt, Red Square (more poppy), Club Hell
(One Step Beyond.. kool visuals), most any show at the I Beam. Nothin' like
breakfast at the Underground! Still crave that scene every once in a while,
but just can't shake off the house bugs!

So what's the average age of the SFR crew? I'm not *that* old (turdy won)!
I've lurked here for over 5 or 6 years... (uh, I can't remember. Where am I?)

bunny

blkadder@value.net wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Wayne wrote:
>
> > How many of you out there used to go to House of Usher at that place in
> > Albany all those years ago?
>
> Thunder Bay. It was in Berkeley.
>
> > How about Drug #6 at 650 Howard before (and during) that?
>
> Guilty.
>
> > crusty old goth/industrials, out of the closet now!
>
> The only thing that is in the closet is some of the clothes which need a
> 'dustin off, a 'wearin, and a 'using... :-)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:28:08 1998
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To: Mike Wertheim <mikew@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: so you met my friend freshie 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 98 11:36:10 PST."
             <v03007801b0e0fade2016@[209.60.53.20]> 
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 10:28:04 -0800
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Hi Mike (OLD SCHOOL IN DA HOUSE!!!)

> I am currently involved in an email conversation with an old college friend
> that I haven't seen in over 7 years.  She lives in NYC, recently completed
> a law degree, and is now complaining that she doesn't like being a lawyer.

I would be careful to generalize from a single instance. Especially if
that instance is a lawyer. Although there are a few good lawyers, it is
mostly a profession composed of liars and con-artists who have made a
career of professionally manipulating the truth for financial gain and
with absolutely no care about the lives their profession destroys in
it's wake. And even if you are "good" to begin with, you will be draged
down by having to stoop to the level of the hucksters that compose the
majority of one's peers in the law profession.

> In addition to that, she also complains about aging.  She just turned 29
> and complains that she is aging less gracefully than her peers, and she
> says that she heard that "30 is like death".

This seems to be a problem peculiar to people that feel the need to
validate their self-worth with notions of age/beauty/attractiveness
which, unfortunately, society is shoving down their throats.  I would
imagine this is particularly problematic if said person is a lawyer,
because then they'd have absolutely no other redeeming features by
which to feel good about themselves, other than the amount of moneny
they've extorted from their victims. I'm also sure this sentiment is
strongly reflected among her peers -- it's the scourge of the urban
yuppie. She should take solace that at least there's fewer body-nazi's
in NY than in Cali.

Although I am the first to admit that the body and face of a pretty
young girl is immensely attractive, that attraction departs as soon as
you speak to them. After all, a relationship is more than just fucking
a pretty face. I'd say your friend is obsessing about the wrong things,
perhaps because she's hanging with the wrong crowd. 

> Is it the realities and harshnesses that my friend faces that makes her
> interesting?  No, not at all!  She would be way more interesting if she
> accepted that most of her "problems" are just her negative judgments of
> what's going on in her life, and then stopped complaining and started
> realizing that she can make changes that will improve her health, career
> satisfaction, etc.

I totally agree. Neuroses suck.

> Going overboard with negativity is just as escapist and self-defeating as
> going overboard with positivity.

I don't think my statements about east-coasters being interesting
has anything to do with "negativity." Negative people suck, esp. if
all they ever do is complain. 

Then again, positive people suck too. Especially if you've personally
been dealing with some reality that is important to you, but is totally
misunderstood by a positivist's polyanna mindset. Sometimes, "have a
nice day" is not what one wants to hear -- as it indicates a sort of
selfishness on the part of the "positive" person who isn't willing to
understand you, your problems, or even to show that they care enough to
console or help others around them that are dealing with reality.

That's because it's easier to let some stupid and superficial
positivism roll of your lips than it is to share another persons 
burdens. With few exceptions, I've found people that are overly
positive have some severe issues of their own that they are masking, or
are simply too selfish to care about others.

Ultimately, it's all about humor and not about negativity. I think the
thing I like about east coasters is that they've culturally absorbed
some of that jewish self-deprecating humor and have learned to turn
potentially tragic situations into a source of humor. This resonates
with me because, after all, I'm jewish. 

It's like appreciation of woody allen movies. I almost always find them
to be funny and inspirational. But some positive/plur oriented folks
(as well as yer stuffy blueblood protestant) might just complain that
this form of humor is "a bunch of whining." 

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:30:56 1998
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> Macs would be so much better if they had decient multitasking!
> 
> -idw

Check out Mac's new OS: Rhapsody. Its all based on the BSD kernel so I'm sure 
it will have better performance and functionality (or at least better than NT).

-JoNaS-


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:36:46 1998
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From: jonas@nit.AirTouch.COM (Jonas Edgeworth)
Message-Id: <199801151836.KAA08979@phoenix33.nit.airtouch.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR Re: The New Law..."Humans are inherently good" tangent
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> free water=good
> 
> $5 water= bad
> 

free sex = good

$5 sex = scary


-JoNaS-

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:43:54 1998
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Message-Id: <199801151843.NAA28968@www10.web2010.com>
Subject: ***  Planet Rock - In Touch WWW ***
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 10:45:02 -0000
x-sender: liquidhg3@liquidmercury.com
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From: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
To: "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Hey Cyber Rave Nerds...

the NEW In Touch web site is up thanks to yours personally....
liquidmercury design.  It's so new the true URL http://www.in_touch.com 
isn't active yet and the URL is still just 209.12.212.247

So check it out :)  Hope you like it...remember this is jus the beginning!


much love,

liquid & mercury

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:44:24 1998
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Subject: Re: The New Law...
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 10:45:09 -0000
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From: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
To: "SugeR" <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>,
  "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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****************  SMOKING KILLS  *****************

      what more needs to be said!!!!!!!!


**************************************************


mercury


>Hello all.. 
>
>i would like to bring up a point that seems to have been forgotten... 
>
>i understand the new NON-Smokin law has gone into affect....
>
>now.. i have no prollems going outside to smoke... 
>
>but what do we do if the party won't let me out to have a cigarette....
>
>i have to hide in the bathroom like i was in high school again... 
>
>any one got any suggestions... 
>
>**Promoters.. just let folks KNOW that it is going to be a NON-Smoking
>Party.. and you aint going to let us folks out to smoke... **
>
>at least with the information ... i can choose a different party... 
>
>Peace and Stuff... 
>
>-SugeR
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:44:30 1998
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Subject: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK! --> Plese, stop bashing
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 10:44:52 -0000
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From: * mercury * <ravergirl@liquidmercury.com>
To: "Paul Hayden" <goodvibe@geocities.com>,
  "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Must we be so harsh with the name bashing...the people/kids
throwing these parties are ravez just like you and me.  They
are really nice and they have their hearts in the right place.

Planet Rock...it's just about bringing US ALL together to have fun ;)


---------------------------------------------------------> mercury
mercury@liquidmercury.com

>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
>Love,
>Paul*E*Wog
>P.S. Or what are you plans for this weekend??
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 18:59:28 1998
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From: "U.A.A." <anarchy@galaxy.galstar.com>
Message-Id: <199801151859.MAA03012@galaxy.galstar.com>
Subject: Planet Crock, Nomad, and a dog named boo
To: (Controlled Chaos), sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:59:22 -0600 (CST)
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Okay,

For about two weeks now I have read loads of email about Nomad and the scene
and what not.  Not that thats over now I see all these posts about Planet
Rock and shit.  Now come on,  maybe its me or have I missed something.
I am not saying I like one more than the other but if I had to choose between
the two I would go to a Nomad party hands down. Its like saying one thing but
doing another.  I know that I am generalizing a lot but I remeber the first
Planet Rock last year and I am sorry I attended.  Since then I vowed to never 
attend another one. Talk about your lack of security high ticket prices..
I could go on but i won't = )

I guess that the planet rock crew has yet to gain the infamous reputation of 
nomad but I do feel that they have very little concern for the scene.
IMHO

Happy Thursday,

Herb


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 19:07:51 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:06:13 -0800
From: DJ Nick <nicholas@sirius.com>
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I am starting an online record store (vinyl co-op perhaps).
Would anyone be interested in such a place? What kind of
stuff would you like to see there? Are there any sites which
you think are doing well (where you can purchase vinyl/cds)?
I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks,
N


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 19:33:34 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:32:15 -0800
To: Faro@usa.net
From: b e n c h u n <benchun@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Humans are inherently good" tangent
Cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
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At 09:01 AM 1/15/1998 +0000, Faro wrote:

>Part of what makes humanity so interesting is that we have different 
>motivations, we think differently and therefore.. we act differently. 
>We are not all clones that think alike. To illustrate:
>
>If you put 10 different lions in a given situation, chances are all, 
>or most of the lions will all react in exactly the same fashion. If 
>you put 10 different people in a given situation chances are all or 
>most of the people will react differently.

although i am now reminded of an interesting psychology experiment... in
which people were asked to administer electric shocks to another person
under the direction of a scientist. of course they weren't actually
shocking the other person, who was an actor. the experiment was to see how
far people would go, believing that they were hurting someone else but
still doing it because an authority figure was asking them to do it. the
results? almost all of the people gave shocks that were in the area
labelled "dangerous" on the fake machine... i've seen video of this, it
really is amazing. of course, now i forget the name of these experiments,
but they're quite famous... psych majors out there?


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 19:43:01 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: *Star Eyes* ~ Z-Trip ~ Emile ~ 2nite!  <<bsp>>
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~~~  T  O  N  I  G  H  T  ~~~


*Star Eyes* (Eklektic yin resident) has returned to town -- Z-trip & Emile
(the Bombshelter DJ's out of Phoenix AZ)  will be arriving later today and
tonight they will be the guests at Eklektic.  

Please join us at *Eklektic* to hear the amazing schooled talent of the
above mentioned turntablists.  

****Share our warm vibe on this cold and rainy day****

Sneak Peek:  NEXT WEEK Jan 22nd:  We present -- 
Dieselboy from Phili along side Rinse of the B.A.S.S. kru 
and our yin resident Sage of Phunckateck/Ground Score.
The shit will rock!

Eklektic 
$5   21+
Thursday's, Upstairs @ Kate O'Briens
579 Howard Street in SF BTW 1st & 2nd
415.332.5800 X 2-47

respect
dmarie
Ground Score



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 19:59:22 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: Future Primitive Soundsession-- This Sunday 
Cc: markw@cnet5.cnet.com, joe@kinetikgrooves.com
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The next installment of the Future Primitive Soundsession takes place this
Sunday, January 18th at Cat's Alley.  Well into its second year, the
Soundsession has been honored by both the SF Weekly and the Bay Guardian,
and has been featured in magazines like Mixmag, Urb, Phazer, and Straight No
Chaser.  The formula continues to evolve, and this next event will host
unique turntable collaborations.  As always, the event will bring together
turntablists on 5 decks.  The line-up for this Sunday's event is:


The Space Travelers, featuring DJ Quest, Eddie Def, Marz, and Cue
Z-Trip and Emile
Quail Breath, featuring DJ Disk and Buckethead
Andrew Jervis and Tomas
Polywog
DJ Anna
Felix the Dog
Toph One

Visuals by UV-99
Graffiti Installation by the Aerosol Syndicate and D23

Cat's Alley
1190 Folsom (between 7th and 8th St.)
San Francisco
9p to 3:30a
415.905.8868
http://www.plinko.com/

___________________________________________________

About the headlining Artists:  

The Space Travelers, a four man crew from Daly City, perform trickery in the
same vein as the Invisbl Skratch Piklz.  They've released some of the most
popular breaks records of the last few years.  Coming in from Phoenix,
Arizona, Bombshelter DJs Z-Trip and Emile have been featured on the Bomb DJs
compilations, as well as Om's "Deep Concentration" project.  Expect a set
ranging from Public Enemy to Black Sabbath.  

Quail Breath is the pairing of international guitar hero Buckethead, with
his partner DJ Disk, from Giant Robot II.  Buckethead has played with folks
like John Zorn, Bootsy Collins, and Mr. Bungle.  Also on the bill is Andrew
Jervis and Tomas, both of San Francisco's Ubiquity Records.  Together, they
co-host the Friday Night Session on KUSF.  Polywog, one of San Francisco's
most prominent female DJs, is back in town after being handpicked to tour
with Jane's Addiction last fall.

The last three Future Primitives have sold out very early.  $10 advance
tickets are strongly recommended, and available at the following locations:

Open Mind Music	342 Divisadero (at Oak)
Aquarius Records	1055 Valencia (at 22nd)
Behind the Post Office    1504 Haight (at Ashbury)
House of Flys	2029 Fillmore (at Pine)

and via Ticketweb
http://www.ticketweb.com/user/sfbay/venues/misc/catsalley

*to maintain the underground spirit of the event, please forward this
message to anyone who might be interested.



me...dmarie


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 19:59:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:58:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Humans are inherently good" tangent
To: b e n c h u n <benchun@MIT.EDU>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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If you search for info on Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment (which
is some even more disturbing shit) you should be able to find pointers
to this study.
Matt.

---b e n c h u n <benchun@MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
> At 09:01 AM 1/15/1998 +0000, Faro wrote:
> 
> >Part of what makes humanity so interesting is that we have different 
> >motivations, we think differently and therefore.. we act
differently. 
> >We are not all clones that think alike. To illustrate:
> >
> >If you put 10 different lions in a given situation, chances are all, 
> >or most of the lions will all react in exactly the same fashion. If 
> >you put 10 different people in a given situation chances are all or 
> >most of the people will react differently.
> 
> although i am now reminded of an interesting psychology
experiment... in
> which people were asked to administer electric shocks to another
person
> under the direction of a scientist. of course they weren't actually
> shocking the other person, who was an actor. the experiment was to
see how
> far people would go, believing that they were hurting someone else but
> still doing it because an authority figure was asking them to do it.
the
> results? almost all of the people gave shocks that were in the area
> labelled "dangerous" on the fake machine... i've seen video of this,
it
> really is amazing. of course, now i forget the name of these
experiments,
> but they're quite famous... psych majors out there?
> 
> 
> . . . . . . .
> benchun@mit.edu
> http://mdma.mit.edu/
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:00:19 1998
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From: "U.A.A." <anarchy@galaxy.galstar.com>
Message-Id: <199801152000.OAA11505@galaxy.galstar.com>
Subject: NRR: How to start snowboarding
To: (Snowboarding Ravers), sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:00:09 -0600 (CST)
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Hello again!

I have been meaning to write this for a while but I gues i have been lazy.
I try and go riding as much as I can and a lot of people have asked how to
get started and stuff.  I admit that until I went for the first time it did
seem like a huge unknown process with lots of equipment that I didn't have.
but after going the first time I wondered what i was so worried about.

This i what I did and it worked out very well.  I know a lot of people who 
chose this route as well.

First get a group of your friends that you would like to spend a couple of days
with in the snow. Snowboarding is a lot more fun wth a lot of friends. 
Decide where you want to go.  I recommend Sugar Bowl or 
Kirkwood.  Kirkwood is about an hour closer.  I know instructors at both
so I am a bit partial.  But I know both have a one day lesson/lift ticket/board
package which is perfect for your first time.

(PS  bring chains and make sure they fit before you leave !!!!!)

The lessons usually last half a day then you have the rest of the day to try out
the rest of the mountain. With friends thereyou can't help but have a good time.

What I do recommend is that you find someone yuo know that will let you borrow
some good waterproof shell pants and a waterproof jacket.  Or go out and
purchase your own clothes if you plan on going a lot.  You will spend most of
yer time on your butt and a cold wet butt is not a happy butt.  Also good gloves
is a plus.  I would rent the first couple of times just till you get the feel
of riding and the different types of boards and bindings.  Try the different
models out.  Step in bindings are nice but a bit heavy and it takes a while to
used to the boot. There are the conventional bindings and a new style which I
prefer called Flow bindings.  If you want to check them out its www.flow.com

But yeah try the stuff out before you commit a lot of money only to find you 
don't like the board you have.  Talk to people who have the model you want and
ask the person at the store.  Check out the SKi/Snowboard warehouse (on
lafayette just before 101)  or Go skate (the almaden store)  both are very 
friendly and helpful.  ASK Questions.  I recommend waiting till about
August/September when all of the new models come out.  You can usually
get a new board (last years model of course) for a very good price.

Look to spend about $500 for board, boots, and bindings depending on what you
get.

I was supposed to go to stargaze last weekend but injury prevented me from 
riding so I chose not to torture myself.  
But I would still love to have some sort of 
party up in the snow.  I know that Truckee has partys every once in a while
its just a matter of finding places to sleep and shower.

I hope this helps out a bunch of folks.  Its reall easy to get started honestly
it just seems like a lot of work.  And it is sooo much fun (barring injuries).

Hope to see all of you on the slopes = )

Love,

herb


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:01:03 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: "Humans are inherently good" tangent
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-15-98 11:32

The expereiment by Dr. Stanley Milgrim was supposed to prove that people in the
U.S. won't shock a person to the point of danger and/or death.  But the study
yielded the finding that people will indeed shock a person to the point of
danger and/or death while obeying an authoritarian figure.  Not to say that
there could be another holocaust here in the U.S. but it is very interesting. 
Is it worth it for a few dollars to inflict such discomfort on another human
being?  For the participants who were doing the shocking were indeed payed for
their services (odd term that).  All this information led to Kohlberg's "Stages
of Moral Development."  Our actions are categorized on a moral scale.  That in
a nutshell, is the gist of it.

aloha,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
p.s. I'm not a psych major...

"although i am now reminded of an interesting psychology experiment... in
which people were asked to administer electric shocks to another person
under the direction of a scientist. of course they weren't actually
shocking the other person, who was an actor. the experiment was to see how
far people would go, believing that they were hurting someone else but
still doing it because an authority figure was asking them to do it. the
results? almost all of the people gave shocks that were in the area
labelled "dangerous" on the fake machine... i've seen video of this, it
really is amazing. of course, now i forget the name of these experiments,
but they're quite famous... psych majors out there?"


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:04:24 1998
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From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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It was conducted sometime in the '50's by Stanley Milgrem, and the
vast majority of the people involved (giving "shocks" of increasing
intensity) went all the way to the most powerful dosage, despite the
fact that the actor in the booth (whom the subjects couldn't see)
began pleading with the person to stop, and then after a while was
silent, as if dead.  Each subject was told before hand that they
could withdraw from the experiment at any time.  The scientist
(Milgrem) simply sat in the room with the subject and told them that
the experiment required that they continue.  As far as most of the
people in the experiments knew, they were administering shocks to
a corpse, but kept going because someone told them to.

Kind of changed my view of humanity when I saw that film, let me
tell you . . .

Have a nice day, anyhow.
Steve.

b e n c h u n wrote:
> 
> At 09:01 AM 1/15/1998 +0000, Faro wrote:

> 
> although i am now reminded of an interesting psychology experiment... in
> which people were asked to administer electric shocks to another person
> under the direction of a scientist. of course they weren't actually
> shocking the other person, who was an actor. the experiment was to see how
> far people would go, believing that they were hurting someone else but
> still doing it because an authority figure was asking them to do it. the
> results? almost all of the people gave shocks that were in the area
> labelled "dangerous" on the fake machine... i've seen video of this, it
> really is amazing. of course, now i forget the name of these experiments,
> but they're quite famous... psych majors out there?


-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:11:25 1998
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  jdunning@compare.net
Subject: Re: [BSP--NRR]: How to start snowboarding
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The place I work, CompareNet (http://www.compare.net) just put
snowboards on our site.  If you have no idea what kind of board you
need, or what length/width you want, consult the all-knowing
Board Oracle.  We list 1700 different models of snowboards, so you'll
be sure to find the board (probably several!) that is right for you,
and in your price range.

Go to www.compare.net and hit the link to "Sports & Leisure".

Coolsville,
Steve.

U.A.A. wrote:
> 
> Hello again!
> 
> I have been meaning to write this for a while but I gues i have been lazy.
> I try and go riding as much as I can and a lot of people have asked how to
> get started and stuff.  I admit that until I went for the first time it did
> seem like a huge unknown process with lots of equipment that I didn't have.
> but after going the first time I wondered what i was so worried about.
> 
> This i what I did and it worked out very well.  I know a lot of people who
> chose this route as well.

-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:15:10 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:08:19 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: Religious Discusions on SFRaves
In-Reply-To: <34BC66FF.554A7695@geocities.com>
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Paul, I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here.  Are you adding, or
disputing?

I don't quite see the relationship between your mail and mine.  you're
saying vibe can feel religious or spiritual.  Not saying it can or cannot
be likened to raving.

I'm saying raving isn't a religion, it's just something we gather and do
because we choose to, not because any "god" says so.

peace...eh?
-SolR


At 11:19 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>In raving we do have an esstablished form or superpsyche controlling
>form or energey that we all worship and we call it: VIBE!!!
>The vibe teaches us about the rave and the vibe holds us close and
>comforts us or it can storm down on is in negative buckets or even flood
>us with such a positive energey that we can't take so much ecstacy at a
>time and clearheaded that we go insane and crave to re-experience that
>wonderful and RELIGIOUSLY uplifting SPIRITUAL sensation of the VIBE.
>Love,
>Paul*E*Wog
>
>SolR wrote:
>
>> so, then, the issue is: raving=religion?
>> 
>> IMHO: not quite that organized, nor are we worshiping any god.  you'll
>> find, that in every organized religion, there is a figurehead, supernatural
>> power, or powers that control destiny.  to this/these the follower must
>> have faith, obedience, and give due honor.
>> 
>> we just like the music. and gather about it, cuz it's fun.  oh, and plus,
>> we like to look at neat colors 'n stuff, so we decorate ourselves and our
>> environment.
>> 
>> i think that raving, and religion are quite different.  enough so that they
>> cannot be compared.
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:15:20 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:19:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Future Primitive Soundsession-- This Sunday 
To: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Cc: markw@cnet5.cnet.com, joe@kinetikgrooves.com
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Hey is this the Seattle DJ Quest? 

LL


> 
> The Space Travelers, featuring DJ Quest, Eddie Def, 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:16:22 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:14:25
From: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: The Electric Pussycat Psychedelic Swingers Club Mix
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Howdy Ho, SF cru.
It's that time of year again where the parties dry up and staying at home being creative is a good option to while away those winter blues.
And what better opportunity to rack up an insane mix to distribute to the world at large.
Yes, it's Weasel mix time again.
The first installment is a 70 minute affair consisting of spacey tripped out techno and tech/house tracks. It is a genre of music that you don't hear out often - techno when played out tends to come in cheezy bangin' flavour or hard jeff mils flavour and not much inbetween, pure tech/house tends to have too many cheesy synths floating around. This music is slower than bangin techno, has very trippy sounds and an inner beauty that sometimes astounds me (Urban Groove is perfectly etheral). The mix has been burned to CD to simultaneously sooth and disturb their owners as they funk along to the repetitive, heavy, basslines and drums and get throughly spooked by the freaked out sounds.

I have a few copies to give away if you think you thoroughly deserve one (if you're seriously into this kind of music, or if you want me to spin at a party or something).

For you lesser mortals, there is a Real Audio version that I have plonked up on my website, not quite as good quality as a CD, but it's only 9 meg compared to 700.

http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/underground/5185

The track listing is as follows:

Laurent Garnier - Hoe (FComm)
Space DJz - Celestial Funk (Ongaku)
Alien Disco - Slide (As it is)
Shatrax 09 (Shatrax)
Mark Bell - Soul Search (Synewave)
Richard Benson - Feel you deep inside (Force Inc)
Aubrey - Rapid Transit (Solid Groove)
Timeblind (Chris Sattinger) - De-televised (Missile)
Surgeon - Syllable (Downwards)
Heiko Laux - To all the believers (Yoshitoshi)
Urban Groove - Scenic Route (Plink Plonk)
Sir Real - Backwash (Round)
Octave One - Eniac (430 West)
DBX - Live Wire (Accelerate)
Ephebe - Sogu (Mosaic)
Speaker - Mine (Torema)
Christian Vogel - Doke (TEEX)
Subjective - Tremmer (Rotation)
Speaker - Vein (Torema)
Plastikman - Sikness (Novamute)

Apologies in advance to those offended by blatant misogeny, the first track is pretty amusing.

Look out for another CD sometime soon, next time it's hard funky techno.

C@weasel
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:31:54 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:31:27 -0800 (PST)
From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: How to start snowboarding
To: "U.A.A." <anarchy@galaxy.galstar.com>
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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great nrr post!  i used to ski a lot, but haven't been in years.  but
now that i live in northern cali (more or less) i'm thinking it's time
i finally learned to snowboard.  i'm planning to go this weekend with
some friends, but reading the stargate review reminded me it's about
time for that sfraves snowboarding/cabin party we were talking about a
few months ago.  jil/cheerioHN, are you still interested in organizing
something?  if you want any help, i'm down.  btw, if you or any other
sfravers want to reach me, my new address is messiahw@yahoo.com.

-mw

ps. can anyone reccomend where to get some fly snowgear in sf? 
snowboard rentals?



---"U.A.A." <anarchy@galaxy.galstar.com> wrote:
>
> Hello again!
> 
> I have been meaning to write this for a while but I gues i have been
lazy.
> I try and go riding as much as I can and a lot of people have asked
how to
> get started and stuff.  I admit that until I went for the first time
it did
> seem like a huge unknown process with lots of equipment that I
didn't have.
> but after going the first time I wondered what i was so worried about.
> 
> This i what I did and it worked out very well.  I know a lot of
people who 
> chose this route as well...>>>


<<<
From:
        Messiah Wannabe <messiahw@rocketmail.com> Add to Address Book
 Subject:
        Re: (lack of)SNOW UPDATE :o)

> >i'm totally up for an sfraves ski trip, complete w/big communal cabin
> >and decks for after the slopes close!  if we stuffed like 30 people
> >into a 10 person ski lodge for a big slEEp-over ski party the per
> >capita cost could be pretty low.  who else is up for this?
> >
> >-messiah wannabe
> >
---chris <chris@thirdage.com> wrote:
>
> Oh yes I am so down for this. I'd be happy to get involved in the
> organization of said trip too. 
> 
> Hey Messiah, do you want work together with me on this one?
> 
> -c

yeah, sure, guess someone's got to do it...  CheerioHN@aol.com (jil)
is interested in helping too, actually if it happens i bet she'd wind
up doing
most of the work since she lives in tahoe.  ya know, i think if we
pulled this off it could possibly be the coolest party i've ever been
to.  imagine snowboarding all day with thirty
happy raverkidz, then afterwards rolling in a cabin w/fireplace and
dj's all night... 

tell ya what, lets get in touch with this jil person and see what sort
of logistics we need to work out.  oh yeah, we'll need someone to
supply the drugz too...


> >>>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:31:57 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: idw@hotmail.com, a_sid_tst@hotmail.com
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i will hax0r you with my Apple IIc running miCr0$0ft Y00nix, off a 5.25 
( NO HD)
hahahahhahaha
Philly.. blunted too early in tha morn
>
>Long live the Amiga!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>kbOOM
>
>ID W wrote:
>
>> Macs would be so much better if they had decient multitasking!
>>
>> -idw
>> "rain + motorcycles = :^("
>> idw@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:34:48 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:28:50 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!)
In-Reply-To: <199801141931.LAA06884@phoenix33.nit.airtouch.com>
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For those of you using Outlook... 

*it* is the problem. Download Eudora Light 3.01, and introduce yourself to
a decent mail program.  It is hella easy to use and learn.. you can upgrade
to Pro, which allows you to use multiple personalities [several email
addresses with one program], filters, so that you can filter messages into
separate mailboxes, make them a color, alert you with a sound, and the
filter only has to be a word, address, or even text in the body of the
message.

I work for an ISP, and I get calls from people using Outlook... the first
thing I have them do is download Eudora. it's small too.
http://www.deepwell.com  go to software, and scroll down, it's there.
anyone using Outlook is destined to have problems with it.  it is retarded.

peace.
-SolR


At 11:31 AM 1/14/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> my name is adam and i have been lurking on here for a while.  i am
>> posting to ask you to please not use aliases when posting to this list.
>> the email software i am using (ms outlook) seems to get confused
>> whenever there is an alias for the "sfraves@hyperreal.org" in the to
>> field..  examples "Ravermail" or "You're Busted!" and others.  whenever
>> the address isn't "sfraves@hyperreal.org" it ends up in my work inbox...
>> i have tried adding the aliases one by one but it seems like there is an
>> awful lot of them... 
>> (if anyone knows how to get ms outlook to filter correctly... please e/m
>> me)
>
>
>I coudn't agree more. As well, can everyone stop using acronyms like
PLUR,BSP, 
>etc. because my email filters get confused. While were at it, I am having 
>problems with people talking about smoking so everybody stop doing it. In
fact, 
>I would really appreciate everyone on this list would bow to meet my every
need, 
>because everyone should know how very important I am.
>
>
>
>Raring to set up aliases for this list,
>
>JoNaS
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:36:00 1998
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From: "Matt Schwartz" <thorfio@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: How to start snowboarding
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>But I would still love to have some sort of party up in the snow.  I 
>know that Truckee has partys every once in a while its just a matter 
>of finding places to sleep and shower. I hope this helps out a bunch 
>of folks.  Its reall easy to get started honestly it just seems like >a 
lot of work.  And it is sooo much fun (barring injuries).
>

I'm all for the snowboarding trip!...it seems like this topic keeps 
coming up, and a lot of people want to do it, but no-one wants to take 
the initiative to head it up? Can it be done?

-Matt-

>Hope to see all of you on the slopes = )
>
>Love,
>
>herb
>
>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:39:06 1998
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Woah!
We just talked about this case study  in Psychology.. I guess school 
really IS relavant to "Real Life" hahahhaha
Philip
pdmarcus@ucdavis.edu
disordr@mother.com
disordr@hotmail.com
:)

>
>The expereiment by Dr. Stanley Milgrim was supposed to prove that 
people in the
>U.S. won't shock a person to the point of danger and/or death.  But the 
study
>yielded the finding that people will indeed shock a person to the point 
of
>danger and/or death while obeying an authoritarian figure.  Not to say 
that
>there could be another holocaust here in the U.S. but it is very 
interesting. 
>Is it worth it for a few dollars to inflict such discomfort on another 
human
>being?  For the participants who were doing the shocking were indeed 
payed for
>their services (odd term that).  All this information led to Kohlberg's 
"Stages
>of Moral Development."  Our actions are categorized on a moral scale.  
That in
>a nutshell, is the gist of it.
>
>aloha,
>moki4u2c@hotmail.com
>p.s. I'm not a psych major...
>
>"although i am now reminded of an interesting psychology experiment... 
in
>which people were asked to administer electric shocks to another person
>under the direction of a scientist. of course they weren't actually
>shocking the other person, who was an actor. the experiment was to see 
how
>far people would go, believing that they were hurting someone else but
>still doing it because an authority figure was asking them to do it. 
the
>results? almost all of the people gave shocks that were in the area
>labelled "dangerous" on the fake machine... i've seen video of this, it
>really is amazing. of course, now i forget the name of these 
experiments,
>but they're quite famous... psych majors out there?"
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:44:23 1998
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Actually they did a whole series of these Milgrim experiments over quite
some time (back in the '60s), controling for a number of different factors.
Among other things they moved the scientist (not necessarily Stanley M.
himself) around, having him in the room with the subject/ shock administer
person, having the contact only via telephone, no contact after the
original introducion, etc...
If memory serves, they found that the subject's likelyhood of administering
a harmful shock, and sticking with the experiment was directly correlated
to the proximity of the authority figure or scientist.

absynthe



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:51:55 1998
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I myself will be found sliding down some mountain this weekend.  It is great
fun.  I just started this season and am totally addicted.  I'm usually at
Kirkwood  -- there's gonna be tons of good snow too :))))  I'm psyched.

LaurenG.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 20:54:58 1998
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These expirements are also infamous as an example of "irresponsible science,"
by not providing enough information to the participants; some of whom were
traumatized when they glimpsed their own capacity for cruelty and obedience.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 21:14:14 1998
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I'm ready for some pow-pow.
I'll make time to go up if there's a plan...  I may be going this weekend,
although, I usually go to Boreal [my sis is a snowboard instructor there],
I often get half pricers, they have a couple of parks there, and they have
some good cruising runs there [i'm not into working to get down the hill].

peace&powder,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 21:17:27 1998
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     I'm totally willing to help do this Sno'B week-end! How many people 
     are seriously interested in going??  
     
     THANKS LACIE


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 21:28:17 1998
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To: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: DJ Quest
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LL
I do not know if he was originally from Seattle, but I know he kicks it in
the Bay Area and has for a while.

peace.
dmarie


At 12:19 PM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey is this the Seattle DJ Quest? 
>
>LL
>
>
>> 
>> The Space Travelers, featuring DJ Quest, Eddie Def, 
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 21:30:34 1998
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Well several have responded to the beach party idea.
We have sound, visuals and someone even has offered to donate mild
carcinogens to enhance the eye candy.
Now all we need is a house close to the beach.
Actually i heard the rain is supposed to stop sat till sunday eve.
Maybe we could somehow combine this with the snowboarding party.
Is that possible somehow? Maybe a snow party with a little stop
at the beach for a bonfire and gathering then up to the mountains for
fun in the snow. 
Bring your unbrellas for the beach and then use them as sleds
on the snow...will that work?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 21:39:32 1998
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        "Re: NRR: How to start snowboarding" (Jan 15, 12:31pm)
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I know of a coupla places in South City/San Mateo ish locales...

Helm of Sun Valley off of 101 is pretty resonably priced.
 Snowboard/Bicycle/Windsurf/Whatever Warehouse in SSF on Airport Blvd. has more
selection but is more pricey.

There's also a place in South Shore called Rip'n'Willy's that is really good.
 Like $26/day for a board and boot rental [you generally pay $70/wkend if you
rent down here.]  But rent at the resort for the first day if you're going to
take a lesson - you get the lesson/rental/lift ticket deal - like $50 a day, I
think.

If you're interested, I can find out more precisely where these places are.

Beth

The only reason I can deal with this fucking RAIN is that I know it's probably
snowin in the mountains...  =)

On Jan 15, 12:31pm, messiah wannabe wrote:
> Subject: Re: NRR: How to start snowboarding
>
>
> ps. can anyone reccomend where to get some fly snowgear in sf?
> snowboard rentals?
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 21:48:31 1998
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Here's the Scoop

hey d marie--

nope, i know who this guy is talking about and he's a regular ol'
trance/house DJ.  i think our quest was born/raised/resides in san
francisco... and he's also had the name for a whole lot longer...

Mark Wasserman
Designer, Creative Services


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 21:51:27 1998
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>>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
>>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
>>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
>>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
>>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
>>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
>>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
>>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
>>Love,
>>Paul*E*Wog


But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
colored people.
Smoking crack.


b))merang



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 22:03:15 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Andrew Nourse" <andy@pythagoras.org>
Cc: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!) (NRR)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:04:12 -0800
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I have outlook express and I have know problem with filtering the list mail.
I just use two filters one for the to: field and one for the cc: field.  Ms
outlook 97 is older than outlook express. either check for patches in ms
outlook or download ms ie4.0 for free outlook express is packaged with
ie4.0.

MooK<><

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Nourse <andy@pythagoras.org>
To: Niels P. Mayer <mayer@netcom.com>; Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>
Cc: San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: mailing list aliases and filters (PLEASE READ!) (NRR)


>At 03:42 PM 1/14/98 -0800, Niels P. Mayer wrote:
>>
>>> my name is adam and i have been lurking on here for a while.  i am
>>> posting to ask you to please not use aliases when posting to this list.
>>> the email software i am using (ms outlook) seems to get confused
>>> whenever there is an alias for the "sfraves@hyperreal.org" in the to
>>> field..  examples "Ravermail" or "You're Busted!" and others.  whenever
>>> the address isn't "sfraves@hyperreal.org" it ends up in my work inbox...
<<snip>>
>>Or try keying off a different field than the "To:" or "Cc:" line. Every
>>piece of mail on sfraves has an additional field  "Sender:
>>sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org" -- why don't you tell Exchange (a name
>>which tells you what to do w/ the shitware you just bought) about that
>>header instead?
>
>I've been trying to find a way to do that.  There doesn't seem to be any
>way in Outlook Express.  These mail programs only know about To:, From:,
>CC:, and Subject:!  If you fill in more than one, it assumes that both must
>match,
>so you need 2 filters for every list.
>Putting other headers into the registry manually doesn't help -- it ignores
>them.
<<snip>>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 22:10:46 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:10:36 -0800
From: jonas@nit.AirTouch.COM (Jonas Edgeworth)
Message-Id: <199801152210.OAA09059@phoenix33.nit.airtouch.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK!
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> >>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> >>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
> >>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
> >>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
> >>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
> >>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
> >>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
> >>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK?? 
> 
> But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
> colored people.
> Smoking crack.

If I smoked somr fraggle rock, would I hallucinate that I had 
electric-blue-tiger-stripe-fur for skin, and thereby be labeled a colored 
person?

tangentially,

JoNaS

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 22:12:12 1998
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From: Giles Bowkett <giles@bowkett.com>
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: raving + snowboarding
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  HELLLLLLLLLLL YEAH. Learning to snowboard is on my little list of things
to do this year; I've already got a trip to Colorado with friends planned,
and the more opportunities I get to go downhill really fast, the better. I
promise not to talk about shit-talking city kids or call anybody
provincial if I go. ;-)
  For what it's worth, I think there are two ways to go about this: the
Wouldn't That Be Cool way and the Making It Happen way.  The Wouldn't That
Be Cool way involves imagining the best possible thing - like 18 star DJs,
free drugs at the door, free equipment rentals, and renting out an entire
resort just for ravers - and then putting off actually doing it for so
long that global warming changes the climate and Tahoe no longer even has
snow.
  The Making It Happen way involves figuring out when you want to do it,
who's coming, how much it'll cost, and who can drive. I say do it this
way.


   --------]                   [--------
     ------] giles@bowkett.com [------
       ----]                   [----


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 22:19:02 1998
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Subject: 411 on Planet Rock anybody ?
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     Hey peeps,
     
     Can anybody tell me the approx location of the above ? Would help in 
     working out my transportation options and whether to lend my car 
     elsewhere. 
     
     Also the lowdown on schmokin' policy & set times would be nice ....
     
     See y'all there,
     
     John,

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 22:23:49 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: SF Weekly article
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:24:44 -0800
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Why would they be so pricy for used a place that already had all night
permits.
Maybe the costs were high but the admission to digital be-in was only $10.
And they used 1015's existing permits.

hmmmmm.....

MooK<><

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: SF Weekly article


>A permit for a late start (2am, I believe) was granted, however they
couldn't
>get that pushed earlier and the price asked by a group who possessed an all
>night permit for a possible merger was exorbitant.
>
>Joe



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 22:30:54 1998
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References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>        "SF Weekly article" (Jan
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Joe Rice wrote:

> At 3:05 AM -0800 1/15/98, Fred Heutte wrote:
> >Interesting, Diana is quoted as taking the blame for requesting the
> >permits too late in the process.  That's either noble or spin control.

Or it could be the TRUTH.

> >One of the interesting issues is whether the Oakland PD even has the
> >authority to limit the number of such permits.

Yes, they do, and they even have the authority to shut a permitted event
down... for almost any reason they feel like.

> Oakland began limiting permits after noise complaints (regarding 2nd &
> Jackson) and security issues at parties a few months ago

That's not true.  Oakland has had a "one party a night" policy since the
beginning of '97.

> - there was a
> small write up in the Chronicle about it. The PD can also use the excuse
> that they can't provide enough officers to safely monitor and patrol events.

They are actually VERY short handed.  I meet with the City Manager at least
once a month to go over Options regarding this dilemma.  We are trying to
figure out a way to have Police cadets work the parties, so that not so much
overtime has to be scheduled.  If we can not come to a solution soon, the new
policy may become 'One event per weekend'

> - the SFPD has pulled that one before.

See... this old school mentality of US against THEM is the exact reason why
there are no One-Off after-hours permits given to rave promoters in SF.  And
Treasure Island was an exception... not the new norm.   After all the medicals
they had, I would be surprised if the Island is used anytime soon....
especially for a rave.

> Regarding Toon Town, indeed, what was quoted was true about the deadline
> being missed, although I don't know that it was one person's fault. The
> promoters hadn't had any problems in the past slipping permit deadlines and
> didn't expect trouble this time, only to find out they were too late.

That's NOT true... They knew that they were not the only applicants for a
permit for that night.  And they knew only one event was going to be given  the
permit.   There is SO much more going on here than I am at liberty to divulge.
I'm In no way trying to bash toontown for their efforts on getting this party
to happen.   It was a major tragedy that these events unfolded this way.  And I
am not trying to pour salt on their wounds.  Only a promoter like myself can
really understand how something like this feels.  NO ONE to date has lost as
much money as I have from being involved in this scene and throwing parties.
So if anyone understands ... It's me.  BUT that does not change the facts on
the permit issues... and I just want the facts to stay strait.

> A
> permit for a late start (2am, I believe) was granted, however they couldn't
> get that pushed earlier

This is not true either.  It was never granted at all.

> and the price asked by a group who possessed an all
> night permit for a possible merger was exorbitant.

If you did everything the right way, and jumped through all the right
bureaucratic red tape, and took care of your business on time and as required
by the OPD, would you just give it away to someone else... all because they did
not follow pre-mandadet guidelines... and you did?????   Think about it?
Wouldn't you want to be compensated for your HARD work... or would you just
give it all away????

There is a WHOLE lot of REAL BULLSHIT that goes on in the OPD and this whole
permit thing.  I tried to bring up some of these FACTS during the whole Cool
World / Cuberfest 3 / Alameda Naval Base situation.  But no one really seemed
to care because it was Cool World that got Fucked.  Many people on this list
think that promoters are greedy money grubbing bustards...  But none of you can
possibly understand what it takes, nor what the costs are, to make an event in
Oakland possible... and how good it is right now... and how bad it will be next
year.   It's time to get off the bitch wagon and start to appreciate what we
have... because time is running out.

PS.   Whe it comes to east bay parties / permits I would argue that there isn't
anyone in this scene that is more up to speed than I am on the issues.  If you
have serious questions... I have serious answers.

Keep it Real.... Vlad


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:01:03 1998
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From: Nathan G Holderbein <nholderbein@comsysdev.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR: Ski/Snowboard trip
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:00:29 -0800
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I've been lurking the list from out in the central valley (Manteca to be =
specific) for a few weeks now, and the ski trip gig sounds awesome.  =
Someone step up and take charge, and while your at it put me down as a =
driver from this area. Any dates will work for me.

-Nate

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:01:16 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:56:50 EST
To: SFraves@hyperreal.org
Subject:  !~raves and politics~!
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In a message dated 98-01-15 03:59:11 EST, you write:

<< It's easy
 to just be inactive and let the shit run its course and then sit back and
 moan and groan and bitch about how fascist everything is, but you don't
 have the pregorative to do that because you didn't participate and try to
 stop the shit from happening in the first place. >>

Exactly...silence is compliance.

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:07:14 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "XGrRLsTrX" <XGrRLsTrX@aol.com>
Cc: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re:  !~raves and politics~!
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:08:08 -0800
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Some of us imports can't do squat cuz we can't vote.
>From Ireland orginally for those that care.

MooK<><
-----Original Message-----
From: XGrRLsTrX <XGrRLsTrX@aol.com>
To: SFraves@hyperreal.org <SFraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 3:00 PM
Subject: !~raves and politics~!


>In a message dated 98-01-15 03:59:11 EST, you write:
>
><< It's easy
> to just be inactive and let the shit run its course and then sit back and
> moan and groan and bitch about how fascist everything is, but you don't
> have the pregorative to do that because you didn't participate and try to
> stop the shit from happening in the first place. >>
>
>Exactly...silence is compliance.
>
>-=~*LaUrE@*~=-
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:15:46 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:14:32 -0800
To: absynthe@sirius.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: b e n c h u n <benchun@MIT.EDU>
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At 12:50 PM 1/15/1998 -0400, absynthe@sirius.com wrote:
>Among other things they moved the scientist (not necessarily Stanley M.
>himself) around, having him in the room with the subject/ shock administer
>person, having the contact only via telephone, no contact after the
>original introducion, etc...
>If memory serves, they found that the subject's likelyhood of administering
>a harmful shock, and sticking with the experiment was directly correlated
>to the proximity of the authority figure or scientist.

and also was inversely correlated with their proximity to the person they
thought they were shocking. (i.e. when they were "shocking" an actor that
was actually in the room with them, they stopped a lot sooner.) so maybe
we're not evil... =)


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:23:58 1998
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I thought the article was really funny, especially the part about all of
us being club kids.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

David Minuk wrote:
> 
> OK kiddies, some of you wanted to know more about the Toontown article in
> SF Weekly so here it is...
> 
> http://www.sfweekly.com/1998/current/riffraff1.html
> 
> A somewhat unreadable color scheme...
> (I'll have you know I had to look it up on the only browser I can use at
> work, the one in Pointcast under Win 3.1. (It's not our fault, I have
> network software that won't run on anything more recent than NDIS 1.  No
> other browsers I've tried work).  Oh, the pain).
> 
> Yer pal,
> 
> David

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:28:06 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:27:33 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: * mercury * <ravergirl@liquidmercury.com>
CC: SFRAVES SFRAVES <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK! --> Plese, stop bashing
References: <199801151843.NAA28959@www10.web2010.com>
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I can be as mean as i want to. I am only joking and besides i know the
people who are throwing it and i called it crack rock to thier faces and
they laughed so don't get so uptight and fightsey.
Paul*E*Wog

* mercury * wrote:
> 
> Must we be so harsh with the name bashing...the people/kids
> throwing these parties are ravez just like you and me.  They
> are really nice and they have their hearts in the right place.
> 
> Planet Rock...it's just about bringing US ALL together to have fun ;)
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------> mercury
> mercury@liquidmercury.com
> 
> >Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> >I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
> >pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
> >And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
> >Don't i make all of you jeleous.
> >See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
> >blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
> >Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
> >Love,
> >Paul*E*Wog
> >P.S. Or what are you plans for this weekend??
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:28:20 1998
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References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>        "SF Weekly article" (Jan
  14,  4:57pm) <Pine.GSO.3.96.980114165118.16938A-100000@shell>
 <v04003a01b0e3ff458b26@[207.93.14.13]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Organization: The Justice League Sound System
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:29:18 -0800
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
From: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>
Subject: Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 2:27 PM -0800 1/15/98, Ray Vonie wrote:

>That's not true.  Oakland has had a "one party a night" policy since the
>beginning of '97.

I based my info on a newspaper report from the Chronicle remarking on
Alameda residents' complaints about noise at 2nd & Jackson, wherein an OPD
spokesperson mentioned the one party per night policy. I may have
incorrectly inferred that it was a new policy at the time.

>> A
>> permit for a late start (2am, I believe) was granted, however they couldn't
>> get that pushed earlier
>
>This is not true either.  It was never granted at all.

Sorry, change granted to offered  in that sentance.

>> and the price asked by a group who possessed an all
>> night permit for a possible merger was exorbitant.
>
>If you did everything the right way, and jumped through all the right
>bureaucratic red tape, and took care of your business on time and as required
>by the OPD, would you just give it away to someone else... all because
>they did
>not follow pre-mandadet guidelines... and you did?????   Think about it?
>Wouldn't you want to be compensated for your HARD work... or would you just
>give it all away????

The sticking point was the amount of compensation.

I was merely trying to provide some background, not get into a dispute. It
wasn't my party, although I had extensive discussions with one of the
primary organizers about it.

>PS.   Whe it comes to east bay parties / permits I would argue that there
>isn't
>anyone in this scene that is more up to speed than I am on the issues.  If you
>have serious questions... I have serious answers.

Appreciate the offer - I'm sure many of the smaller and/or newer promoters
on the list would find a general rundown of the process invaluable. Here's
are a couple:

What's the economic feasibility of getting a permit for a small (500 person
or less) event in Oakland - are permit fees fixed, or variable depending on
attendance?

What are permit conditions like in Berkeley and Emeryville?

Joe




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:29:52 1998
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Subject: Re: Ravaz Snowboardin'
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     Well here it is....
     
     I found some cabins in tahoe that can fit any where from 10 people to 
     25 (sqozin: we can probably fit a lot more :o). I've not planned 
     anything like this before so if any one has suggestions/ advice 
     PLEEEEEAAAASSSE let me know! (i.e... approx. how many people? food? 
     music? etc......)  **** are we looking for great Sno'B or a snowy 
     party? ****
     
     I'll do a lot  but I NEED HELP!
     
     
     Lacie


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Ravaz Snowboardin'
Author:  Non-HP-mcarey (mcarey@triad.com) at HP-MountainView,mimegw3
Date:    1/15/98 3:01 PM


A tRiP to mountainz yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!!!! umm did forget to 
mention yes. I'm in for that. Of course $$$$ is an issue so I need to know 
like how much I gots to fork out for it.
     
MooK<><
-----Original Message-----
From: LACIE_MURPHY@Non-HP-MountainView-om3.om.hp.com 
<LACIE_MURPHY@Non-HP-MountainView-om3.om.hp.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org> 
Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 1:17 PM
Subject: Ravaz Snowboardin'
     
     
>     I'm totally willing to help do this Sno'B week-end! How many people 
>     are seriously interested in going??
>
>     THANKS LACIE
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:32:42 1998
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Organization: The Justice League Sound System
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:33:45 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>
Subject: (bsp) Beta Lounge tonight
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>Subject: ==>> Live Tonight, THE BETA LOUNGE<<==
>
>
>underwater roadways, mudslides, & urban flood warnings-- El Nino hits but
>the Syndicate strikes back with an extra strength, super concentrated
>episode of ...
>
>THE BETA LOUNGE!!! http://www.betalounge.com/
>
>TONIGHT, January 15th from 6pm to 10pm PST the Network Syndicate brings you...
>
>***********************
>DJs Joe Rice & Sho + DJ Gabriel
>***********************
>with resident DJs:
>BOLLWEEVIL / PERFECT / SIFU
>***********************



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:33:06 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com>
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Subject: Re: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK!
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No, ghetto children are not necessarily colored. They are just ghetto
lookin. Like this one girl. She is white but she is damn ghetto.
Love,
paul*E*Wog

Peter Sandifer wrote:
> 
> >>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> >>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
> >>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
> >>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
> >>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
> >>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
> >>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
> >>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
> >>Love,
> >>Paul*E*Wog
> 
> But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
> colored people.
> Smoking crack.
> 
> b))merang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:33:45 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: Jonas Edgeworth <jonas@nit.AirTouch.COM>
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Subject: Re: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK!
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No you wouldn't be colored you would be really furry.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Jonas Edgeworth wrote:
> 
> > >>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> > >>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
> > >>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
> > >>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
> > >>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
> > >>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
> > >>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
> > >>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
> >
> > But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
> > colored people.
> > Smoking crack.
> 
> If I smoked somr fraggle rock, would I hallucinate that I had
> electric-blue-tiger-stripe-fur for skin, and thereby be labeled a colored
> person?
> 
> tangentially,
> 
> JoNaS

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:34:39 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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It saids it on the flyer. Its at home base.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

John_Robertson@cc.chiron.com wrote:
> 
>      Hey peeps,
> 
>      Can anybody tell me the approx location of the above ? Would help in
>      working out my transportation options and whether to lend my car
>      elsewhere.
> 
>      Also the lowdown on schmokin' policy & set times would be nice ....
> 
>      See y'all there,
> 
>      John,

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:46:14 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:39:49 -0800
To: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: ***  Planet Rock - In Touch WWW ***
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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At 2:45 AM -0800 1/15/98, * sherry * wrote:
>Hey Cyber Rave Nerds...
>
>the NEW In Touch web site is up thanks to yours personally....
>liquidmercury design.  It's so new the true URL http://www.in_touch.com
>isn't active yet and the URL is still just 209.12.212.247
>
>So check it out :)  Hope you like it...remember this is jus the beginning!

"_" is not a valid character in a domain name.

Barring that, www.in-touch.com doesn't look like a bunch of cracked out
rave kids to me.

Whois: in-touch.com
In Touch (IN-TOUCH-DOM)
   96 Withington Rd.
   Newton, MA 02160

   Domain Name: IN-TOUCH.COM

   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Hochman, Ira  (IH8)  ira@IN-TOUCH.COM
      (617) 332-1704

   Record last updated on 08-Dec-94.
   Record created on 08-Dec-94.
   Database last updated on 15-Jan-98 04:43:25 EDT.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   ZORK.TIAC.NET199.0.65.2
   SUNDOG.TIAC.NET199.0.65.9


The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:53:38 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:59:20 -0800
From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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the numerical URL works, though, and has dj's and times for
Planet Rock.

ha ha ho ho and he he,
Steve.

Wayne wrote:

> >Hey Cyber Rave Nerds...
> >
> >the NEW In Touch web site is up thanks to yours personally....
> >liquidmercury design.  It's so new the true URL http://www.in_touch.com
> >isn't active yet and the URL is still just 209.12.212.247
> >
> >So check it out :)  Hope you like it...remember this is jus the beginning!
> 
> "_" is not a valid character in a domain name.
> 
> Barring that, www.in-touch.com doesn't look like a bunch of cracked out
> rave kids to me.
> 
> Whois: in-touch.com
> In Touch (IN-TOUCH-DOM)
>    96 Withington Rd.
>    Newton, MA 02160
> 
>    Domain Name: IN-TOUCH.COM
> 
>    Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
>       Hochman, Ira  (IH8)  ira@IN-TOUCH.COM
>       (617) 332-1704
> 
>    Record last updated on 08-Dec-94.
>    Record created on 08-Dec-94.
>    Database last updated on 15-Jan-98 04:43:25 EDT.
> 
>    Domain servers in listed order:
> 
>    ZORK.TIAC.NET199.0.65.2
>    SUNDOG.TIAC.NET199.0.65.9
> 
> The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
> (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).
> Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 15 23:59:54 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:49:15 -0800
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From: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
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At 10:59 AM -0800 1/15/98, U.A.A. wrote:
>Okay,
>
>For about two weeks now I have read loads of email about Nomad and the scene
>and what not.  Not that thats over now I see all these posts about Planet
>Rock and shit.  Now come on,  maybe its me or have I missed something.
>I am not saying I like one more than the other but if I had to choose between
>the two I would go to a Nomad party hands down. Its like saying one thing but
>doing another.  I know that I am generalizing a lot but I remeber the first
>Planet Rock last year and I am sorry I attended.  Since then I vowed to never
>attend another one. Talk about your lack of security high ticket prices..
>I could go on but i won't = )

I believe that the first Planet Rock party was at the skating rink out
there in 510-land (Pittsburg) on December 8th, 1995.

fyi,
-wdc

ps: There was a 4' tank of nitrous being dragged around the dance floor by
what I interpreted at the time to be a combination of the crew (or their
"investors") and their security staff, selling huge balloons of hippie
crack for $5.

Sitting right next to the person taking the tickets at the entrance was a
guy with a blueish glowing sign around his neck simply with a picture of a
slying saucer and underneath it said "$20." At that same time, there was
some really nasty "e" hitting the west coast called "flying saucers." Just
a data point. :-)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 00:31:53 1998
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we have a guy playing here in Honolulu on the 24th named Rob Drake from Daddy's
Records SF...ring a bell with anyone?...wanted to ask again to make
sure...thanks...

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 00:40:38 1998
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Subject: This Week's SFR Calendar!
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The Step2k party tonight ought to be worth checking out, it features
some jungle pioneers.  The Planet Rock party will be a massive, and
there are also smaller ones on Saturday if you like it like that.
Spundae on Sunday should be interesting too especially if you get
Monday off...

                              The SFR Calendar
                                      
           http://www.hyperreal.org/raves/sf/calendar/gencal.cgi
     _________________________________________________________________
   
               Upcoming Parties in the San Francisco Bay Area
                                      
   Thursday, January 15th - Step 2k and the B.A.S.S. Kru along with Lower
   World Productions presents Systum Check
   Darren Jay, Mickey Finn, MC GQ (UK Jungle Scene Originators), Flux,
   Push, Noel, Rinse.
   presale tix $10 at Housewares SF.
   10pm-4am, 18+. SF. 415.789.7690
   
   Thursday, January 15th - Purifide
   Cloud, J-BOT (aka James Christian), Urn.
   free b4 10pm.
   9pm-2am, 21+, $3. 107 4th St, Santa Rosa. 707.523.9588
   
   Friday, January 16th - Trance Force
   Dutch, DRC, Ramtin, Slim, other special guests.
   tix are limited.
   415.905.8847
   
   Saturday, January 17th - Planet Rock
   supa dj dimitry, silver & vj avant aka cy funk 3, John Aquaviva,
   (charles) feelgood, DJ Dan, donald glaude, jim hopkins, kid bippy,
   sugarhill gang, grandmaster flash, del tha funkee homosapien, invisibl
   skratch piklz, emil & z-trip, funkmaster flex, stylus & ernan,
   essence, chris, joey, danny da wild child, r.a.w., 119 crew (josh
   swissman & heretic), phunckateck (noel, ufo & abstract), star eyes,
   simon apex, dj jets & neme, dj paradox, radley marx, mike moss, bryun,
   tune & bloom, dlx, mike barrett, rockit, huck, neil.
   415.675.5603 510.869.4137 916.492.5477
   
   Saturday, January 17th - Trance & Jungle Factory party
   Vertigo, Thomas Trouble, B.A.S.S. Kru, Stareyes, Rinse, Flux, Melanie,
   Boomerang Fidget, and possibly others.
   200 Presale tix only at the Trance & Jungle Factory...
   $10.
   
   Saturday, January 17th - Decadence
   Deep House
   Spesh, Gil, Travis, Ryme.
   21+. the Top, 424 Haight, SF. 415.929.0644
   
   Wednesday, January 21st - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records
   presents Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Graeme, Garth.
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Thursday, January 22nd - Harmonics Clothing and Music Co. presents
   Discovery
   Greg Sandler, Urn, Eric Brown, guests.
   18+, $5. Santa Rosa. 707.571.8747
   
   Friday, January 23rd - House Blends
   Rob Doten, Joey (A.M.Crew), Tim (Intervene Prod.), DJ Tune, Bloom,
   Abdul, Mes.
   510.988.7447
   
   Friday, January 23rd - SF House Collective presents Love
   DJ Dan, Carlos, Jason, Melanie, Jason Allan, Jorge.
   $15 with a flower.
   510.594.4076 415.615.8559
   
   Friday, January 23rd - S.P.A.Z and Spiral Tribe presents Peristaltic
   Tekno Action
   representing the harder edge of electronic beat muzik
   Jason Ovabitch, dj Gabbergirl, Electric Mayhem (live), dj Din, more.
   All ages, $5. 17th and Capp, SF.
   
   Friday, January 23rd - Abstract Science
   Psychedelic Hip Hop from beyond 2000
   Toph, Darkhorse, Polywog, CK Smart, MC Phluid, experiments in real
   time by Ben Wa.
   9pm-2am, 21+. 111 Minna St, SF. 415.332.5800x211
   
   Saturday, January 24th - 6 in da mornin and On 1 Technologies presents
   Ground Zero 3: the Resurrection
   2 Year Anniversary
   DJ Doubt (Ministry of Sound/UK), Terry Mullan (Chicago), Jason Jinx
   (Nervous/NY), Jim Hopkins (Twitch), dB (Sm:)e/NYC), Dara (Breakbeat
   Science/NY), DJ Dan, Simply Jeff (LA), Hipp-E (Elevator/Colo), Ghost &
   Frank Nitty on 4, Tripnotix, DJ Kimo & Scott LIVE, Joe Lanzon, Paucus,
   Kwashi, Jedi, Rig-A-Tony, Bryen, Sci-Fi, More TBA.
   3 rooms, free giveaways, fully permitted/safe SF location.
   Lasers by NU-SALT. Lighting by On 1 Technologies & Lumatech. Sound by
   JK. Visuals by Liquid Lights.
   8pm-6am, $20. SF. 510.286.7927 415.995.1940 916.484.3734 408.236.2059
   800.590.7032
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Lightseed presents Lightseed One Year
   Anniversary
   Benefitting the world's rainforests, the Cloud Forest Institute and
   the Ceiba Foundation.
   John Howard, Sean Murray, Tracy, Joey, Jeff Taisch, Billy Haste,
   Freaky Chakra (live), Ethan Miller, Anon, Ryan Cimino, Dutch, Re Ach,
   DJ Jets, Russell, Bonnie, Benji, Eric Brown, Greg Sandler, Rob Rayle
   (live), Robert Hart (live), Stephen Kent (live).
   $13 w/can $15 w/out - donations go to Food Not Bombs.
   SF. 415.339.8464 707.329.2189
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Motorway presents Education
   B-Side, Kevin, Dre, Hans.
   $5. Sacramento. 916.491.5891
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Dimentional Transfer presents The Next Angle
   Oddessy (Air Space Safari, Flipside, Alien), Pat Ibbetson (Davis),
   Hutch (KFSR/Fresno), Jordan (U.P.S./Ohio), Deep (PA).
   11pm-?, $7. Fresno. 209.262.8100
   
   Friday, January 30th - Navigator Productions presents Journey
   Simply Jeff (LA), DJ Heretic (LA), Imix (S.L.T.), Neme (Sac), Patrick
   (Sac).
   916.829.6207
   
   Friday, January 30th - Trance Force
   Macadio, Dutch, MysterE, Ramtin, Dino, other special guests.
   tix are limited.
   415.905.8847
   
   Saturday, January 31st - Adrenalin presents In House We Trust
   Jeno, Tony, Simon, Carlos, Mellanie, Pat Allen, Jazz-e, Moda, Shaft,
   Paucus, Kwashi, Essence, Spinner, Tripnotix, Kimo.
   Visuals by Multimedia Meltdown.
   more info TBA.
   
   Saturday, February 7th - 420 Kids! presents Vibe Creation
   Macadio, Bryan Lee, Huggie (LA), Kwashi, J. Splatt (LA), Tyson (Chi),
   Jazz-E, Aloren D'Angelo (Greater House of Berkeley), DJ Toon, Mars x
   Mystr-E (2x4).
   415.995.4983
   
   Tuesday, February 10th - the glad hand three
   an evening of live electronics
   dj monkey, sweet trip, busheeloop, halou.
   8pm-, 21+, $5. justice league, 848 Divisadero, SF.
   
   Friday, February 13rd - Underground Sound Tech presents Love in the
   Phunk House
   Marques Wyatt (LA), Karizma (Sac), Jonene, Anand (Sac), J Smith, Mark
   Pedras.
   4 corner JK sound & UV 99 Full Spectrum Lazer
   916.974.8164 916.974.8104
   
   Saturday, February 14th - Feel Good Entertainment presents Love A-Fair
   '98
   "The Underground Carnival" Valentine's Day PLURity Vibe-Fest and Six
   year anniversary
   Pascal (XTC/Canada), Stryke (Adrenaline/Fla), Troy Roberts
   (Platnum/Sea), Tony & Simon (on 4), MODA & Jazz-E (TranceFusion),
   Carlos, Essence, Tracy, Ghost & Frank Nitty, Roman & Nitsuj (Sea),
   Kevin Kind & Kwashi, Paucus & Tripnotix, Josh Schwab & Corey, Macadio
   & Micron, Joey & Darrell, Rinse, Flux, Stareyes, MC Fluid, Tina K. &
   Max Alert (Generic/LA), MIA (Sea), hak, Sideburn Slim, Miss Knight,
   Glo Worm, Moshe, Vertigo, Ulrich, Spinner, Deepfog, Boomerang, Jeff
   Taisch, Jonathan, Chillz, Ray Vonie.
   limited presale tix go on sale 2.1.98 for $20.
   portion of proceeds benefit environmental organizations.
   Love-Bus trips including admission from LA ($45) and Seattle ($75).
   Call 415.568.1338 for info.
   415.263.0483 510.888.2358 408.881.0785
   
   Saturday, February 14th - Space Children presents All Together Now
   3 year anniversary
   Expect an absolutely stellar line up from all around our beautiful
   planet.
   415.675.4700 510.461.SPACE
   
   Wednesday, February 18th - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records
   presents Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Henrik, Josh.
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, February 28th - Nexus presents 2nd Chakra
   Everything TBA soon...
   
   Wednesday, March 18th - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records presents
   Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Jeno, Deep Fuzz (Rob Doten and Ben).
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, March 21st - Silver Pearl presents Quest
   amazing music, thumping sound, 3 rooms, free fruit and water, edible
   altars, lasers, visuals and so much more!
   415.273.5912 510.287.5620 408.278.5286
   
   Saturday, April 4th - FunkyBeat presents FEDEX
   guaranteed to take you there overnight
   DJ Dan, Donald Glaude, Jim Hopkins, Simon, Essence, Matthew, Paucus &
   Tripnotix (2x4), Ghost & Frank Nitty (2x4), Kimo & Scott (2x4),
   Spinner & Little Ricky (2x4).
   Presale tix $20, at the door $25.
   415.219.5831
   
   Saturday, April 18th - Dimentional Transfer presents Destination
   Arrival
   Dimentional Transfer celebrates 5 Years
   line up on its way!
   209.262.8100
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                              W E E K L I E S
                                      
   House/techno/acid jazz/ambient/etc reg'lar happenins Some of them may
   have ended - let me know when that happens...
   
                                  Thursday
                                      
   Sharpshooter - acid jazz, hip hop, soul w/DJs George, Aural B,
   Romanowski, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $4. elbo room, 647 Valencia, SF.
   415.552.7788
   
   Anthem - house, funk, disco w/DJs David Harness, Ruben Mancias, Jorge
   Martinez, Sista Black, guests. 10pm-6am, 21+, $3. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   415.978.0181
   
   Sprung - funk meets the future w/DJs Manny Rosa, the Baroness, Jimmm
   the dj, guests. alternate Thursdays (10/30...)
   9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   
   Royal Jelly - explorations in creative and social behaviour. Sound
   experiments in digital rhythm and note fantasies w/DJs Lefebvrier,
   Toph, Travis, guest DJs and live acts weekly. 7pm-, 21+, Free. Liquid,
   2925 16th St @ So.Van Ness, SF.
   
   Vibe - deep acid trance, gay, bi and straight w/DJs Jon Bush, Natalie
   Dierickx. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Stud, 9th & Harrison, SF.
   
   Thursday Night Therapy - house, techno w/DJs Jazz-E, Josh Schwab,
   Corey, guests. call for location.
   9pm-3am, 18+. , SF 415.281.8466
   
   karmachanics - house music w/DJs Erin, guests. Alternate Thursdays.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   
   Kit Kat - house. 10pm-4am, 21+. the End Up, 6th & Harrison, SF.
   
   Mosaic - Mauricio, the Baroness, Shannon, Franky. begins July 17th.
   7 Spring St between Kearny & Montgomery, SF.
   
   Trainspotters - UK Progressive House w/DJs DJ Phat Pat, guests. 21+,
   $3. 1333 Columbus @ North Point, SF.
   
   Eklektic - jungle w/DJs StarEyes, Sage, weekly guests. $3 before 11
   10p-2a, 21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 279 Howard @ 2nd, SF. 415.332.5800
   x24-7
   
   Discovery - a night of house and disco music w/DJs Greg Sandler, Erik
   Brown, Urn. bi-weekly.
   21+, Free. Masses Pool Hall, 625 Fifth St, Santa Rosa. 707.571.8747
   
   Moving Co. - house w/DJs Pete Avila, guests. free before 10.
   9pm-2am, 21+, $5. justice league, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   Schoolhouse Rock - house, disco w/DJs jeyson, jericho, occasional
   guests. cheap cover ($1, $3, ?).
   10pm-, 21+. Mansion Pub, 132 E St, Davis. 530.753.4708
   
   The Cafe - house w/DJs Mathew Baker. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. the Cafe,
   2367 Market Street, SF. 415.861.3846
   
                                   Friday
                                      
   Nikita - house, techno w/DJs Simon, Jeno, David Michael, Jerry Bonham.
   Broadcast live on the net at www.1015.com.
   Downstairs, Sticks and Stones- provacateurs of Bass present Drum +
   Bassment with resident DJ Kayar.
   10pm-6am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.267.0568
   [1.16 - Tony Humphries (NY), AK 1200 (FL)]
   [1.23 - Jason Jinx (NY), Dara (NY)]
   [1.30 - Cirrus (live)(LA)]
   [2.6 - Grant Plant (UK)]
   [2.20 - Pete 'the shaker' Bones (UK)]
   
   Fusion - house w/DJs Pat Allen, TJ, Jay R, Larry Live, Phil Salter,
   Cameron, Mark Engler, Rob Bishop. 3 DJs per night, free before 10pm.
   9pm-4am, 21+, $5. 1220 Pine St, Walnut Creek.
   
   the Electric Company - an evening of energetic fusion w/DJs Jonene,
   Ellen Ferrato, guests. 9pm-power outage, 21+, $5. Cat's Grill, 1190
   Folsom, SF. 415.635.6906
   
   Product - house w/DJs Norman 'The Truth' Stradley, sherif, Jay-J, Marc
   Jellybear, DJ Fuze. 21+. the Sound Factory, 525 Harrison St, SF.
   415.979.8686
   
   JR's/Club X - 2 Dancefloors w/DJs DJ Allen (Club X), DJ Charles
   (JR's). $9 for the under 21 crowd.
   8p-4a, 18+, $5. 2520 Camino Diablo, Walnut Creek. 510.256.1200
   
   Moist and Delicious - Mellow hip-jazz to rollin' dnb w/DJs Jake, Visa,
   guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Skylark, 16th & Valencia, SF.
   
   RoM - an evening of sophisticated deep house... w/DJs Chad Mitchell.
   21+, Free. Liquid, 2925 16th St, SF. 415.289.6833
   
   beware of the naughty nurse - house w/DJs Robbie Hardkiss. 10pm-2am,
   21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   
   Drunkyn Mastyrz - hip-hop breaks and jungle w/DJs Drunkyn Mastyrz,
   dayzr. every first friday of the month.
   10pm-2am, Free. The Attic, 3336 24th St @ Bartlett, SF.
   
   Abstract Soul - house w/DJs Corey Black, Loren, Solar, guests. free
   before 11.
   21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard St, SF.
   [1.16 - Mattski, Loren]
   [1.23 - Corey, Solar]
   [1.30 - Tweekin Records Release Party: DJ Iz, Solar]
   [2.6 - Loren, Corey]
   
   Stir-Fri-Day - drum & bass-dub-hip-hop-house-funk-rare grooves w/DJs
   guests weekly. 5pm-9pm, 21+. Minna St Gallery, 111 Minna St, SF.
   
   Liquid - Sugar-D, guests. 10pm-3am, 21+, $5. Neptune's, 5990 S Land
   Park Dr, Sacramento. 916.452.9823
   
   Electric Avenue - house, techno w/DJs Jonene (Stompy), Ellen Ferrato,
   Danny Deep, Jeff Fetterman (Up & Down, Release). $2 off with student
   ID.
   9pm-5am, 21+. Cat's Alley, 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF.
   
   Groovology - house w/DJs Tracy, guests. $3 before 11p.
   10p-2a, 21+, $5. , Santa Rosa 707.526.1230
   [1.16 - Garth w/John Henry]
   [1.23 - Markie w/Erik Brown]
   [1.30 - Buck w/Jason]
   
                                  Saturday
                                      
   Other Whirled - House, Techno w/DJs Nobel, Vince, Christine, Daniel,
   guests. saturday morning
   5:30am-3pm, 21+. 201 9th @ Howard, SF. 415.208.7665
   
   Release - Acid Jazz, Funk, Reggae, House w/DJs Jerry Ross, Josh, Mr.
   Sulu, Randy Wong. 21+. 1015 Folsom, , SF. 415.337.7457
   
   Vanilla Fudge - House w/DJs Corey Black, Sunshine, Moonbeam, Jason,
   Big Lee, Darren. occasional saturday nights.
   10pm-2am, Free. Cafe Bastille, 55 Belden Alley, SF. 415.764.2903
   
   Loveworks - house w/DJs Dani, Matt Valenz, guests. i.a.o [inspiration
   aaron o]
   9pm-infinity, . 111 Minna Street, SF. 415.646.0744
   
   GrassRoots - growing the freshest in house beats. w/DJs kelvin k,
   Uneke, Adonis, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   415.864.7386
   
   Pablo's Sugar Shack - SF's Funkiest House and Rare-Jazzy Grooves w/DJs
   Taj, Jay-J, Lele, Buna, Monty, Markiss, Mofo, Roman, SFRaves lounge +
   guests. 10pm-afterhours, 21+, $10. VSF, 278 Folsom @ 11th, SF.
   415.668.2476
   
   Moist and Delicious - Mellow hip-jazz to rollin' dnb w/DJs Jake, Visa,
   guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Skylark, 16th & Valencia, SF.
   
   i Heard That - house w/DJs Alain del Corazon, Ruben Mancias, Chris
   Lum, Rasoul, guests. 9:30pm-2am, 21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard
   St, SF. 415.626.9097
   
                                   Sunday
                                      
   Spundae - House, Techno w/DJs Carlos, David Michael, weekly guests.
   free b4 10:30p
   10pm-5:30am, 21+, $5. 278 11th St @ Folsom, SF. 415.974.9389
   [1.18 - John Acquaviva (Canada), Charles Feelgood (Balt), Donald
   Glaude (Sea), Troy (Sea), Jerry Bonham, David Michael]
   [1.25 - Terry Mullan (Chi), Taj, Niven, David Michael, Scott DC,
   Safar]
   [2.1 - Sasha and John Digweed at 1015 Folsom]
   [2.15 - 5 year anniversary]
   
   Leopard Lounge - Acid Jazz, Funk & Live Bands. w/DJs Suiki, Jay-J,
   Anthony, Julius Papp, Mark Farina, guests. 2125 Lombard @ Fillmore,
   SF. 415.771.2583
   
   Pleasuredome - House w/DJs Neil Lewis, Ruben Mancias, guests. 21+, $8.
   177 Townsend, SF. 415.985.5256
   
   Mix Lounge - techno, house, jungle w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am,
   $4. 2513 Van Ness, SF. 415.928.0404
   
   Dub Mission - SF's only dub night w/DJs Sep, J.Boogie, Ludichris,
   other surprises. 9pm-, 21+, $3. the Elbo Room, 647 Valencia @ 17th,
   SF. 415.552.7788
   [1.18 - Soundclash Round 2: DJ I, J.Boogie, Ludichris, Sep, Vinnie,
   special guests]
   
   Plush - house, jungle, trance, ambient w/DJs guest DJs weekly.
   9:30p-2a, 21+, $5. 2708 J St, Sacramento. 916.484.4285
   [1.25 - DJ Dan]
   
   ultra magnetic/left coast chronicles - jungle, drum n bass w/DJs
   abstract, spell, jason mouse, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424
   Haight St, SF.
   
   float - chillin' house beats in a new space w/DJs John Howard, Jason
   Mouse, Erin (409). 10p-2a, 21+, Free. Liquid, 2925 16th @ Mission, SF.
   415.431.8889
   
   Breakfast at Tiffany's - Serving deep house w/DJs Para, Victor,
   Nickola. complimentary breakfast (bagels, fresh fruit, pastries)
   9am-5pm, 21+. DNA Lounge, 375 11th St, SF. 415.635.6906
   
   Nice - house, techno w/DJs Spun, special guests. free before 11.
   21+, $5. basement of the Agenda, , San Jose.
   
   Jungle Love - thumpin variety of drum and bass w/DJs Sifu, Gamekat, MC
   Angel, guests. $5 before 11pm.
   9pm-3am, 21+, $7. 161 Eddy St, SF. 415.281.0772
   
   gravity - funk, dub, hip hop, jungle w/DJs tomas, andrew jervis,
   markus, guests weekly. on the mic: jamalski
   9pm-2am, 21+, $3. upstairs at Paradise, 11th & Folsom, SF.
   415.974.4358
   
   Four Four Baby - an afternoon of house music w/DJs patrick, lamont,
   chris orr. 3pm-10pm, 21+, $6. il pirata, 16th St @ Potrero, SF.
   415.626.2626
   
   Waterproof - ethereal grooves, real people w/DJs Mauricio, Franky.
   10pm-, 21+, Free. backflip, 601 Eddy @ Larkin, SF.
   
   Saolta - a TrancelectroCeltic dance party altern8 Sundays.
   9pm-2am, 21+. 1600 Market St, SF. 415.273.1845
   
   The Cafe - house w/DJs Jay-R, Mathew Baker. 5pm-2am, 21+, Free. the
   Cafe, 2367 Market Street, SF. 415.861.3846
   
   sabotage - techno derivatives w/DJs jon santos, sutekh, marcus miller,
   positive p, kit clayton, darin marshall, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3.
   kate o'brien's, 579 Howard @ 2nd, SF.
   
                                   Monday
                                      
   rotation - jazz, hiphop, soul, acid jazz, funk w/DJs racer x, yamu,
   stef, rasta cue-tip, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. up & down club, 1151
   Folsom St, SF.
   
   Phreak Mode - Bass, Booty and Beat Trax w/DJs DJ Positive P, Kit
   Clayton (One Jack Mind), Jim, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $2. The Top, 424
   Haight, SF.
   
   Beat Box - drum'n'bass, jungle, downtempo w/DJs Val. 9:30pm-, 21+,
   Free. Dalva, 3121 16th St, SF.
   
   Noc Noc - Drum'n'bass, downtempo and electronica w/DJs Mohsen. every
   other Monday.
   9pm-2am, 21+, Free. 557 Haight St, SF. 415.861.5811
   
   One - techno, trance w/DJs Ulf, T.C., guests. Visuals by
   Eyetribe.8pm-2am, 21+, $4. the Cellar, 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF.
   
   Undertow - hardcore, techno, jungle. every other Monday starting
   August 25th. More details to follow...
   21+, $2. Mansion Pub, 132 Est., Davis. 916.759.7163
   
   NO TV - From Pure Ambient to House in 7 hours w/DJs Wunjo, Henrik
   Rosal, guest(s). $5 b4 10pm. Every other Monday.
   9pm-3:30am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.675.9899
   [1.26 - Kenneth Sol]
   
   Spackle - house, techno w/DJs Sean, guests weekly. 6am-12:30pm, 21+,
   $4. 1028 Geary Ave, SF.
   
   Mondays on Hayes - house, techno w/DJs guest DJs weekly. starts in
   November.
   21+, Free. 520 Hayes, SF.
   
   Curveball - a midtempo night's dream w/DJs Smove, Rhyme Scheme, Tony
   Scott, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Club Paradise, 1028 Geary Blvd., SF.
   415.605.9057
   
   Density - 98% Concentrated Urban Beats saturated with Drum & Bass
   Deconstructions w/DJs Al Simmons, Fluid Motion (Om/Mephisto), Paul (On
   The One), Aural B (Sharpshooter), Moc. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Justice
   League, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   Sister - house, jungle, hip hop w/DJs guests weekly. cat's grill, 1190
   Folsom St, SF. 415.255.4333
   
                                  Tuesday
                                      
   Eclectic - house, jungle, drum & bass w/DJs Yamu, Siege, Franko,
   Foster, guests. Fresh fruit & condoms to all
   9pm-2am, 21+. Paradise Bar & Grill, 5356 College Ave, Oakland.
   
   Rhythm - house, techno w/DJs Daniel, Stevian, Mark Willson, Mark
   Silva, live congas by Brian, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, Free. Greg's Bar,
   551 W.Julian/Montgomery, San Jose. 408.286.4388
   
   Buggin' Out and the terrorist society - drum'n'bass for your head
   space on the 11th of every month w/DJs mateo, push, gamekat. 9:30p-,
   21+, $3. cafe mars, 798 Brannan, SF. 415.522.2343
   
   Pure - house w/DJs Brian Brandon, guests. 9pm-, 18+. The Rage, 1890
   Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.929.0232
   
   Static - Techno, Drum & Bass, Downtempo, Electro w/DJs ReAch, Quantum,
   Brad, Darin Marshall, Sutekh, guests. 10pm-2am, $2. 2925 16th @ S Van
   Ness, SF.
   
   Sedate Grooves - downbeat, drum'n'bass, breaks, hip hop and weird
   noises w/DJs David, Erik (Phunkatech), weekly guests. 10pm-2am, 21+,
   $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   
   Move - house w/DJs DJ Josh, guests weekly. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. 1028
   Geary @ Polk, SF.
   
   Vision Quest - Joe Lanza, Will, Dice, JKR, weekly guests. 9p-2a, 21+,
   $5. 1655 B Willow Pass Rd, Concord. 510.594.4007
   
   Spin Cycle - guests weekly. 7pm-10pm, Free. the Black Box Cabaret, 3rd
   St & 4th Avenue, Monterey.
   
   Groove - deep funky freaky groovy trancy trippy jazzy spacey
   progressive dance w/DJs Jerry Bonham, Blackstone, Ellen Ferrato,
   Julius Papp, Mouse, DRC. Little nibbly things until 3am.
   10:30pm-4:30am, 21+, $5. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
                                 Wednesday
                                      
   Come/Unity - House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first
   Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.241.8815
   
   Audio Alchemy - jazz, hip hop, drum & bass, latin, futuristic beats
   w/DJs Groove Merchant DJs, Tom Thump, Cool Chris. 7pm-, 21+. Liquid,
   2925 16th St @ So.Van Ness, SF.
   
   Phunckatech - jungle, hiphop w/DJs UFO, Juju, Abstract, Spell, Noel,
   Jason Mouse, S.C.U.B.A. SKWAD DJs Charlie Bucket and Beatjakr.
   10pm-3am, 18+, $5. Cat's Grill and Alley, 1190 Folsom, SF.
   415.331.1500x16
   
   JR's Club - house, trance w/DJs DJ Allen. 8pm-2am, Free. 2520 Camino
   Diablo, Walnut Creek. 510.256.1200
   
   ElectroniKa - Spesh, Kimon, Gil. Visuals by Hyperdelic.Fantastic Vibe.
   5pm-9pm, Free. 111 Minna St, SF.
   
   Recline - rare and abstract w/DJs Wisdom, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $5.
   Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard @ 2nd., SF. 415.824.9878
   
   Escape - ali, mitch, hutch, special guests. Jax House, 1145 N.Fulton,
   Fresno. 209.268.4289
   
   The Lounge - house w/DJs house DJs from near and far. 10p-2a, 21+, $3.
   The Red Lion Inn, 1401 Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.484.3706
   
   Twist - Deep and Swing House w/DJs Christopher, weekly guests.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $5. the Beer Cellar, 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF.
   415.317.1754
   
   the Bulletproof Social - jazz, soul, latin, house, disco, dub, jungle
   w/DJs kevin, george, jayson, richard, kirsten, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+,
   Free. nickie's, 484 haight st, SF.
   
   The Basement Lounge - house w/DJs Miguel "Migs", rotating deep dj's
   weekly. Club 1028, 1028 Geary @ Polk, SF. 415.376.1176
   
   sofalize - ...next level loungin' w/DJs rotating DJs. donations
   appreciated...bring i.d. and please respect the space.
   full coffee bar / literature.
   9pm-. 415.789.8308
   
   the Vinyl Treetmnt - house, jungle, techno w/DJs guests weekly. 21+,
   $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF. 415.522.2343
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                                 Info Lines
                                      
     * Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087. Usually has 5-10 listings, updated
       daily.
     * the Buzz-line, a global party network - 415.569.3300
     * Clubline - 415.979.8686
     * Frequency 8 Trance/Techno infoline - 415.541.5019
     * The Groove Line - (415) 331.1500 ext.4788
     * Housewares Rave Line - 415.281.0125
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                             Radio/TV/Net Shows
                                      
     * Sunday night 8pm-10pm - "Soundz of Resistance" w/DJ Poohbear.
       Underground electronic music, mainly jungle/drum and bass, dub and
       hard techno along with guest DJs, interviews and not-so-random
       amples of life. KZSC 88.1 (Santa Cruz)
     * Sunday night 11pm-2am - "The Dreaming/Innermind Show" w/DJ Miracle
       & Mr. Monchichi. House, Jungle, Trip-Hop, Ambient, Dub,
       Break-Beats & guest DJs. KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara)
     * Sunday night midnight-1am - "Shortwave" - Electronic music in all
       of its guises. KALX, 90.7 FM (Berkeley)
     * Tuesday night 11:30pm-2:30am - "Conscious Groove" - a show all
       about ambientdowntempojungletechnotrancedrumnbasstriphop love and
       more with weekly guest DJs. Free Radio Berkeley 104.1 (Berkeley)
     * Wednesday night 9pm-11pm - free form music mix. KPFA 94.1
       (Berkeley)
     * Wednesday night/Thursday morning - "the tube" hosted by miss laura
       aka lola. an electronic excursion into ambient soundscapes,
       ethereal trance, and washes of other whimsical muzik. KAZU 90.3
       (Monterey Bay Community Radio)
     * Thursday morning 10am-2pm - "The Further Adventures of Aardvark" -
       trip-hop to experimental to ambient to gabba etc, etc. KSJS 90.5
       (San Jose).
     * Thursday 5pm-9pm - The Beta Lounge - Live netcast of jungle, dub,
       breakbeat, hiphop, ambient, experimental.
       http://www.betalounge.com/
     * Thursday night 9pm-mid - "An Epiphany of Sound" hosted by J.C. The
       best in beats to satiate your inner child. Electronic dance,
       noise, spoken word, world music and more. Also available in
       RealAudio. KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
     * Friday 10am-3pm - weekly DJ netcasts. x-radio.
     * Friday 3pm-6pm - free form music mix. KUSF 90.3 (SF) (also
       available on Realaudio
     * Friday 9:30am-noon - Snappy the Aligator plays deep groove music
       that dips into cool electronic sounds, classic soul, reggae &
       more. KALX, 90.7 FM (Berkeley)
     * Fridays 9pm-midnight - Andrew from Groove Merchant spins on KUSF
       90.3 (SF)
     * Friday night/Saturday morning - midnight-noon. House/techno mix
       with Johnny K, Ozone & guests - KCSS 91.9 Central Valley (Turlock)
     * Friday night/Saturday morning - "Just Desserts" w/Mr.Goodwrench -
       10pm-2am Jungle, Detroit, Techno, Acid House, whacked-out Dub, and
       noise KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills
     * Friday night - Moondance. Ambient; 3am-7:30am, KUSF 90.3 SF.
     * Saturday afternoon - "Bus Stop" - music and talk w/guest DJs from
       SF and beyond. 2pm-3pm. KUSF 90.3 SF.
     * Saturday night 9pm-mid - "Underbrush" w/DJ Radon and guests -
       Beats, Breakz and Buzz KZSU 90.1 (Stanford). Also broadcast via
       RealAudio.
     * Saturday night 11pm - Flux Television, Viacom Channel 53 -
       Ambient, acid jazz and house music videos & interviews. (415)
       281-3377. flux@flux.net
     * (every other) Saturday night 10p-12:30a - "1984" w/DJ Richtoffen.
       House, Trance and German rave. 90.1 (Chico)
     * Saturday night - "amp" 1am. MTV.
     * Saturday night - "Subsonic". 1am-6am, KITS 105.3 SF.
     * Saturday night - "House Nation" w/"Anthems Mix", Top 10s from
       guest DJs and "London Connection w/DJ Doubt". 2am-4am, WILD 94.9
       SF.
     * Ambiance Magazine - 9:30p weds-sun PNC Cable 2 (Modesto &
       Oakdale), 9p fri & sat, marcus cable ch 9 (ceres & turlock).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   For a search interface to the calendar, see the Late Train club
   section (http://www.latetrain.com/clubs/).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                            Administrative Notes
                                      
   If anyone has info on any other events, send it to me! I can't
   possibly hope to get all the info every week.
   
   This info gets sent via email every Thursday. To subscribe or
   unsubscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
   majordomo@hyperreal.org with either the line
   
   subscribe sfraves-calendar or
   unsubscribe sfraves-calendar
   
   There is also an sfraves discussion mailing list for issues related to
   clubs, parties, house and techno music, etc. To subscribe, send e-mail
   to majordomo@hyperreal.org with the line
   
   subscribe sfraves
   
   in the body of the message.
   
   
    Derek Chung - dhchung@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 00:42:28 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 16:42:10 -0800
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Subject: snowboarding (for the insane)
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     Not only have i never planned anything like this before, I've never 
     boarded either :o)*** Also I doubt this will happen this week-end, but 
     i'm willing to try for middle of Feb?
     
     Okay my thoughts on the whole thing are below:
     
     ----------------->------------------>
     
     *number of people: 
     This is crucial.... are we looking at 50 or 500?
     
     
     *lodging:
     I found a few places off the net, but are we looking for the 
     cabin'ish, or the warehouse'ish? the most I've found fits 25 
     people.....but we could sqeeeeeze 50-60..
     
     
     *music:
     I thought we could ask people to DJ in trade for free lodging? or 
     donate their time?
     
     
     *food:
     I'm lost here...any thoughts?
     
     
     *decorations:
     I've got a ton of idea's, but this is menial....
     
     
     *fun stuff:
     Same as decorations.....latR
     
     *are we going to run it like a rave where you buy a pre-tix:
     This might be a good idea so we know how many people are really 
     serious. Also financing this might be a problem?? basically everything 
     come down to: "how many people?"
     
     
     *lift tix :
     hopefully we might be able to pull some strings and get some 
     discounts???
     
     
     *transportation:
     Carpool sounds nice?
     
     Okay if I left ANYTHING off please let me know!!! wow, a lot of 
     thoughts out there!! makes me wonder if i might be stepping over my 
     head? who knows?
     
     
     let me know what your thoughts are! (thanks for all the advice:o)
     
     Lacie the insane!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 00:49:51 1998
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From: Jonathan Schiller Serviss <yankee@cats.ucsc.edu>
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just curious, did anyone go to Little House in the City last Saturday 
night, because I don't think I've heard any reviews about it on the list.

Well if anybody did go, I was wondering how you liked Doc Martin's 
3-hour, 3-turntable set. I was also curious about the dynamics of mixing 
on three turn tables, because I have never heard as involved of a set as 
Doc put on. So if anyone has the 411, let me know.
Thanks,
Jonathan

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 00:52:27 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  !~raves and politics~!
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-15-98 15:08


"Some of us imports can't do squat cuz we can't vote.
>From Ireland orginally for those that care."

Ditto that...am a dual citizen of Philippines and Spain...I think I'd get
kicked outta here if I started protesting and getting really invovled...already
got turned down to be a U.S. citizen (family's political involvement elsewhere
I suspect)...just happy to have a greencard...you can say how the U.S. is lame
and it sucks until you live somewhere else...an informed decision is the best
decision...I do what I can but I know the limits, living under marshal law is
unpleasant to say the least...until you see people dying around you for no
reason, I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
(imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 00:55:07 1998
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Rob Doten.... :)
Daddy's is in Berkeley too.... 

Peeeeeeeesssshhhhout!

BYRONI da friendly neighborhood Spacey Cowboyee..

"He's not weird or spacey... you're just not on the level... whatever
level that is.. I do not know.. nor choose to go there..."
	-JL Washington, 12 Monkeys

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:

> 
> we have a guy playing here in Honolulu on the 24th named Rob Drake from Daddy's
> Records SF...ring a bell with anyone?...wanted to ask again to make
> sure...thanks...
> 
> DISCO 2000,
> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 01:03:59 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR - Cashing in that Check Slacker Style
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:05:00 -0800
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After some recent postings on banking proceedures/credit to yer account
I thought y'all may find the following info helpful:

I'm not endorsing skating on thin ice with your banking accounts but...

IF you have a check and you need it credited to your account asap try
this...

cash your check for as much money as you need to get
	 [for example you have $150 dollar check made out to you and you
know there is a $95 check that you wrote so you need that money credited
now, in this example get at least $95 cash back when you're depositing
the check]
then right away deposit the cash into your account
	[in the example you would then deposit the $95]

why it works: your bank may know & love you but to the banking community
that check could be a fraud or not have the funds in the account it's
drawn on. On your account there is a PENDING credit but not immediate
credit until the check clears (usually a banking day or so). But when
you deposit cash your account should be credited immediately because it
is government issued currency.

Of course you may want to try this out before you actually NEED it
and it is also subject to the posting times & policies of yer financial
institution.

happy banking,

sister kitty

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 01:11:21 1998
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From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
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Cc: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: snowboarding (for the insane)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:12:19 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: LACIE_MURPHY@Non-HP-MountainView-om3.om.hp.com
<LACIE_MURPHY@Non-HP-MountainView-om3.om.hp.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 4:46 PM
Subject: snowboarding (for the insane)


>     Not only have i never planned anything like this before, I've never
>     boarded either :o)*** Also I doubt this will happen this week-end, but
>     i'm willing to try for middle of Feb?


PLEASE not the weekend of the 14th or the weekend of the 20th I 've already
got ski trips those weekends. I will be skiing in Whistler Canada on weekend
of the 14th and in Bear Valley for the weekend of the 20th.

>
>     Okay my thoughts on the whole thing are below:
>
>     ----------------->------------------>
>
>     *number of people:
>     This is crucial.... are we looking at 50 or 500?


Smaller is better plus I don't think that tahoe has any place that can
support over 50 people, unless you want to do multiple cabins and each cabin
is a different dj/ style of music


>
>     *lodging:
>     I found a few places off the net, but are we looking for the
>     cabin'ish, or the warehouse'ish? the most I've found fits 25
>     people.....but we could sqeeeeeze 50-60..
>


Cabin sounds better, more homey and probabley a better time


>     *music:
>     I thought we could ask people to DJ in trade for free lodging? or
>     donate their time?
>


Good idea


>     *food:
>     I'm lost here...any thoughts?


If you pick a weekend I can go I can cook large amounts of really good
spagetti or stew or soup and sandwhich or whatever. Will need able bodies to
help with this though but I would be willing to help head this up.


>
>     *decorations:

>     I've got a ton of idea's, but this is menial....


I'll let you handle this


>
>
>     *are we going to run it like a rave where you buy a pre-tix:
>     This might be a good idea so we know how many people are really
>     serious. Also financing this might be a problem?? basically everything
>     come down to: "how many people?"
>


Pre-tix could be good or maybe set it up where people who want to go pay a
non refundable deposit of some set amount and pay the final amount when they
get there.


>     *lift tix :
>     hopefully we might be able to pull some strings and get some
>     discounts???
Lot's of places sell discounted lift tix to people under 22 or 24. Plus
group rates.

>
>     *transportation:
>     Carpool sounds nice?


Depending on the amount of people might want to charter a bus. maybe more
cost effective. Have everybody meet a central location and bus up from
there.

>     Okay if I left ANYTHING off please let me know!!! wow, a lot of
>     thoughts out there!! makes me wonder if i might be stepping over my
>     head? who knows?
>
>
>     let me know what your thoughts are! (thanks for all the advice:o)
>
>     Lacie the insane!
>

PS I am going to privately send you a locked url with userid and password
for a group that recently did this.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 01:14:21 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Planet Rock... rides. from davis
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Hello ... Davis Ravers.. sac town ravers.. i know you're all out 
there...
 does anyone perhaps have a place for me in their car... 
thanks.... 
Philip
disordr


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 02:43:59 1998
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From: davidmin@wco.com (David Minuk)
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Here's some more articles from our local press
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:47:20 GMT
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Here's one about a new club in town, Sister....

http://www.sfbg.com/Music/32/15/sister.html

And about Atari Teenage Riot...

http://www.sfbg.com/Earshot/core.html

Enjoy!

David
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
David Minuk
WWW:  My URL is http://www.wco.com/~davidmin/
Please note my new e-mail address & URL.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 02:48:44 1998
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From: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4ab61893.34bec64e@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:30:34 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: MY FINAL WORDS ON NOMAD/ORIGIN
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In reference to my original message dated 010498 and reposted 010698, and in
accordance with the statements made in the final paragraph of that communique,
I have the following to announce:
.
On 011598, Nomad Interactive completed their financial obligation to my
partner for the services he provided for Nomad Interactive's New Years Eve
event, Origin.
.
.
In a supreme act of willpower, I will say no more on the subject.
.
Peace to you all...
.
vortexbrad
.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 02:58:16 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:55:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
cc: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)
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thanks for this post vlad,
it truly cleared things up for me regarding permits and the OPD :)
lookin forward to love a-fair... anyone wanna be my valentine? :)~
xo
lara


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 04:29:02 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8a94184.34beded4@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:15:14 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Planet *AcHcEcM*Rock Dj Schedules?
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Does anyone have a list of who's spinning at what times?? Can't get lost in
all that jungle and miss some other good sets.  Also.. are we having a meeting
spot?? Or are you all just gonna look for my laser gun??

       hugs n'stuff,
          'trice the tekno diva

   "^v^v^v^v^I get goose bumps when the bass thumps...^v^v^v^v^"

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 04:32:02 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:33:34 -0800
To: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Oh, and one more thing about smoking....
Cc: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 3:20 PM -0800 1/14/98, Matthew D. P. K. Lanier wrote:
>dude-
>
>chill....  the power of addiction is much greater than you make it out to
>be.  your comments really don't add anything constructive that can help a
>non-smoker stop smoking.  your comments don't really say anything that
>smokers haven't heard yet.  and you come accross as intollerant.

The power of addiction comes down to choice.  I should not be made to
suffer for other people's choices.  Addiction or not.  Taking that stance,
damned near anything is tolerable due to certain things being out of one's
control.  I dig that it's a addiction.  I am also glad that I no longer
have to put up with other people's addiction going into my lungs and on my
clothes.

Tolerance, like freedom should properly have some limits.  I don;t have the
answers to what should and shouldn;t be tolerated, but I take the
libertarian view.  Your "rights" to your freedom ends when it interferes
with my "right" to freedom.

>
>now, if you'd like to discuss positive ways that parties might allow
>people like you and me to stay away from smoke while allowing smokers the
>ability to do so, lets talk about that.

I have the solution.  No smoking in clubs.  If you must smoke, go outside.
That seems like a very reasonable compromise.  Another option, develop a
smokers club  where smoking is the norm and people are hip to it.  The non
smokers can hang outside if they wish.  Of course they can look in and bet
on who'll be a corpse from inhaling all those carcinogens.

>
>later-
>
>matt =)
>
>matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org
>- i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists
>/ matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way
>too much /
>                _______
>               /       \
>              /  o   o  \
>              |    ^    |
>              |         |
>     ___      \   \_/   /       ___
>  __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
> (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
>(_______  ____________________  _______)
> (______ /                    \ ______)
>  (_____/                      \_____)

Peace,
John

P.S.  This new law has been a godsend.  I am so happy that I don't have to
deal with the filth of smokers.  I am tired of it and will always be.  It's
about time.  Since the addicts couldn't do it voluntarily (human nature's
constant: self interest), the group , i.e. society, decided for them.


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 04:34:55 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:37:52 -0800
To: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
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At 5:36 PM -0500 1/14/98, Tekno313 wrote:
>In a message dated 1/14/98 8:54:42 PM, you wrote:
>
><<
>And since businesses are mostly profit-driven, the owner will in all
>likelyhood choose a policy that matches the wishes of the majority of his
>clientel if they wish to have them for long.
>>>
>
>Oh! So rules and laws should be made to the whims of the majority, huh? Sounds
>familiar....
>--Monty
>ps-Patrick, you know you're my boy, but I'm not letting go of this one!!! :P

Didn't one of them slave owning founders talk about the Tyranny of the
Majority?  Wasn't it George Jefferson?  Oops I meant Thomas Jefferson....;)

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 04:39:07 1998
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To: Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK!
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Peter Sandifer wrote:

> >>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> >>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
> >>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
> >>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
> >>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
> >>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
> >>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
> >>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
> >>Love,
> >>Paul*E*Wog
> 
> But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
> colored people.
> Smoking crack.
> 
> b))merang
> 

Well pass me that pipe Peter, cause I got something to say... peel slowly
and see:

So far, I've visited Planet Rock's website, where they all but guarantee
no gangstas at their parties:

"Our message is simple, there is no message"

so we're coming together to celebrate... er... nothing (I tend to be
partial to those parties promising me a 14 orgasm mayan yellow overtone
seed spritual 7th layer headfuck with my inner child's third eye actually,
it's a little deeper than 10,000 people getting together after paying
money to get in to celebrate... er...  nothing.  I guess if you have
nothing to say, don't say "we have nothing to say", just say " ")... and
then later...

"welcome to the core of the underground, no corporations, no gangstas, no
attitude, just 10,000 happy kids sweatin, and jumpin, and cheerin."

It probably has a decent chance of being a good party, I've never been to
one, and I'll usually try anything once (I'd probably go at the insistence
of some great folks I met last weekend, if I wasn't doing stuff down
here).

I find this *no gangstas* thing funny (not funny ha ha, more like funny
something's wrong), because my only exposure to Planet Rock in any way was
meeting the promoter, an early-mid twenties caucasian kid who wears baggy
pants, a windbreaker with some obscure writing on the back (I'd probably
understand if I was down with his crew), short hair and a little bit of an
attitude problem (I realize it was probably a bad night for him, but I'm
making a point here) weilding a 40oz at a beach party, trying to tell me
what to do with my sound system (it wouldn't fit, I honestly don't know
what he was thinking). 

I'm pretty sure all I'd need to do is put the same clothes and attitude on
a gentleman of color with a similar physical build and half the people
planning on going would take off in the other direction (aieee... gang
members... honey, lock the door or they'll take our Blaupunkt and daddy's
gas card). So is color the only line between what we consider RAVER and
what we consider GANGSTA?  Check yourselves, we've avoided this topic for
a while, but I see stuff like this and I gotta ask... 

Just wanted to point that strange dissonance of statements out.

AndyW

P.S. Pictionary kicks ass with nice people.  I just hope that none of you
ever have the traumatic experience of having to draw "sabotage"  after a
session with the Grafix though... it almost killed me (no, it wasn't an
All Play, and no, my team didn't end up getting to roll again).  I'm still
depressed about it... the other team didn't get words like that...



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 04:45:27 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:43:20 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
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References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>        "SF Weekly article" (Jan
	  14,  4:57pm) <Pine.GSO.3.96.980114165118.16938A-100000@shell>
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Ok.. let's see.....

>What's the economic feasibility of getting a permit for a small (500 person
>or less) event in Oakland - are permit fees fixed, or variable depending on
>attendance?

Permits are based on capacity.  Based on capacity, you will have to pay for
overtime for the officers, at an average of $45 per hour per cop.. so if you are
expecting only 500 people... you should only have to pay between 2500-3500 dollars
for your event, depending on how many hours your party is going.

a party of about 500 would run 6 officers and a sergeant...  averaging to 350 per
hour... if you have a 10 hour party.. your permit fees are roughly 3500 bucks.

But in order to even apply for the permit... you need to have insurance ($$$) ,
Fire inspectors ($$) , electrical and safety inspector ($$).. bonded security ($$)
and an oakland business licenvce ($$)   as well as a contract with the venue
($$$$$$)...  Bottom line... for 500 people... its not cost effective for a party of
this size.. because after you break it all down...  you need to charge more than
people want to pay for a party.  the only way to do it legally and make it cost
effective would be to spread your costs over a larger crowd.   And you need to have
it all ready 30 days prior to the date of your party.

>What are permit conditions like in Berkeley and Emeryville?

At this point they are unavailable.. unless you get a special extension form the
mayor... which they do not plan on giving any time soon.

That's it for now... hope It cleared up some questions.

Keep it real  Vlad



Joe Rice wrote:

> At 2:27 PM -0800 1/15/98, Ray Vonie wrote:
>
> >That's not true.  Oakland has had a "one party a night" policy since the
> >beginning of '97.
>
> I based my info on a newspaper report from the Chronicle remarking on
> Alameda residents' complaints about noise at 2nd & Jackson, wherein an OPD
> spokesperson mentioned the one party per night policy. I may have
> incorrectly inferred that it was a new policy at the time.
>
> >> A
> >> permit for a late start (2am, I believe) was granted, however they couldn't
> >> get that pushed earlier
> >
> >This is not true either.  It was never granted at all.
>
> Sorry, change granted to offered  in that sentance.
>
> >> and the price asked by a group who possessed an all
> >> night permit for a possible merger was exorbitant.
> >
> >If you did everything the right way, and jumped through all the right
> >bureaucratic red tape, and took care of your business on time and as required
> >by the OPD, would you just give it away to someone else... all because
> >they did
> >not follow pre-mandadet guidelines... and you did?????   Think about it?
> >Wouldn't you want to be compensated for your HARD work... or would you just
> >give it all away????
>
> The sticking point was the amount of compensation.
>
> I was merely trying to provide some background, not get into a dispute. It
> wasn't my party, although I had extensive discussions with one of the
> primary organizers about it.
>
> >PS.   Whe it comes to east bay parties / permits I would argue that there
> >isn't
> >anyone in this scene that is more up to speed than I am on the issues.  If you
> >have serious questions... I have serious answers.
>
> Appreciate the offer - I'm sure many of the smaller and/or newer promoters
> on the list would find a general rundown of the process invaluable. Here's
> are a couple:
>
> What's the economic feasibility of getting a permit for a small (500 person
> or less) event in Oakland - are permit fees fixed, or variable depending on
> attendance?
>
> What are permit conditions like in Berkeley and Emeryville?
>
> Joe




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 04:46:18 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:46:44 -0800
To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Re: The New Law...
Cc: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 8:36 PM -0800 1/14/98, Noah Apodaca wrote:
>> If you still are worried, make a formal complaint, and you'll see what a
>> $1,000 fine will get you (they have to sell plenty of booze to make up for
>> those $$$'s BTW).  Even going to a bar is cool again.
>> >>
>>
>> THANK YOU!
>>
>> John S Lee rides again! FYI though, my understanding of the law is that
>>a $100
>> fine is levied after a first complaint, $200, and $400 after successive
>> complaints, and THEN the $1000 fine.
>>
>
>I hope to God that people don't start "narcing" each other out in The
>Scene.  Why is that kind of thing sooo enjoyable to some folks?

If that is narcing, then I'm one.  My rights to breathe good old air has
been trounced on enough by people's addiction.  Oh well, narc it is.  If I
see a cigarette lit, it's curtains.  First I'll politely ask the person, if
they insist, then I'll insist.  So it goes...


>  I
>remember someone getting really pissed because they got booted from a
>club because someone narced them out for seeimg a bit too drunk a little
>while back.

Yep, that was me. As far as I am concerned these are two totally different
matters.  Apples and oranges, dig?

>  This violation of personal freedom and freedom of
>intoxication was presented as an outrage.

Wrong!  I was NEVER told WHY I was ejected from the club, and the reasons
changed with the days.  Go to the archives and see John S. Lee's search for
the truth of his own ejection, in a party full of drugged out drunk maniacs.

And I didn;t bandy about freedom either.  All I wanted was the truth, I was
not fighting for my right to party like some lame ass Beastie Boy fronting
like it was my freedoms being trampled on (I don't even think I used
freedom once, so please don;t put words inot my mouth...thanks).  It was
never offered.  There is a difference.


>  But file a complaint about a
>smoker?  Yeah yeah do that!

Oh don't worry, I will.  Damn, it really does feel good to have the billy
club of the law backing you up.  Now I know what it must feel like to be a
resident of Simi Valley!

>  Do that here and now and "THANK YOU!" for
>the advice to do so.

You're welcome.

>
>Please kids, tell me this is some sick joke.

Smoking is a sick joke.  Being an innocent bystander to some smokestack, or
getting burned by the ember tip, or washing your clothes and hair directly
afterwards is alsso sick.  I also get sick (as do many of my friends),
after being in those carcinogen dens for 8 hours, with all those
nicotine-crack-heads puffing away.

Finally, the joke is on the smokers.  Hallelujia, dance hard, and breathe
free.  Now where in the fuck are those drink tickets.  I gotta get my
swerve on!

Amen,
John


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 04:55:12 1998
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References: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 98 11:36:10 PST."            
 <v03007801b0e0fade2016@[209.60.53.20]>
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:56:52 -0800
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: so you met my friend freshie
Cc: Mike Wertheim <mikew@hyperreal.org>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 10:28 AM -0800 1/15/98, Niels P. Mayer wrote:
>Hi Mike (OLD SCHOOL IN DA HOUSE!!!)
>
>> I am currently involved in an email conversation with an old college friend
>> that I haven't seen in over 7 years.  She lives in NYC, recently completed
>> a law degree, and is now complaining that she doesn't like being a lawyer.
>
>I would be careful to generalize from a single instance. Especially if
>that instance is a lawyer. Although there are a few good lawyers, it is
>mostly a profession composed of liars and con-artists who have made a
>career of professionally manipulating the truth for financial gain and
>with absolutely no care about the lives their profession destroys in
>it's wake. And even if you are "good" to begin with, you will be draged
>down by having to stoop to the level of the hucksters that compose the
>majority of one's peers in the law profession.

My brother, a lawyers job is to represent your client with great vigor and
to spare no legal means to do so.  Simple.  The only bad lawyer is one that
does not do that job.  Judges judge, lawyers try to win cases.  That is why
you hire one, to win for you, not to be a good or moral person.  Fuck that.
When you're in the system, you need a way to get out, and the lawyer is the
ticket.  I *love* lawyers.  I think they do the good shit.  Yes, they get
the scum of the earth off, ususally due to poor evidence gathering and
shitty work by their opponent.  But they also win meaningful cases that
actually help people.  Yes, yes, it's all done for a fee (the best lawyers
cost big bucks), but Gas, Grass, or Ass, nobody rides for free (Supa Old
Skool) in this here plantation called the USA.

>
>> In addition to that, she also complains about aging.  She just turned 29
>> and complains that she is aging less gracefully than her peers, and she
>> says that she heard that "30 is like death".

30's is just the beginning.  All those preliminaries were good, but nothing
beats the long stride of the 30's IMO.  I can't wait to be 40, 50,60.
Seeing the world change, watching New Mother Rome come full bore as she
degenrates into a total bread and circuses fest.  As long as I can afford
to eat and be entertained, I will look forward to aging.

Pax,
John

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 05:55:37 1998
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John S. Lee wrote:
> 
> If that is narcing, then I'm one.  My rights to breathe good old air has
> been trounced on enough by people's addiction.  Oh well, narc it is.  If I
> see a cigarette lit, it's curtains.  First I'll politely ask the person, if
> they insist, then I'll insist.  So it goes...

Key word being "cigarette." If it's weed then it's a good deed right?
Book
him Danno.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 07:02:54 1998
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From: NINJARAVER <NINJARAVER@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:02:39 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: PLANET CRACK ROCK
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Hello everyone.

I'm new to the SFR group.  Been reading everything for the past two weeks, and
so far I like it.  A lot

I'll be heading down to Planet Rock, and would love to get to know ya'all.
I'll be the guy with the long blond hair, in bright blue pants with the big
yellow stripe down the sides.  And if there's any good circles goin down,
that's where I'll be. 

Happy Hippity Hoppities,
FROGMAN

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 07:08:27 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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I musta missed the post on love affair.
when is it(i'm guessing around 14 feb duh)
where 
what 
why 
how
and under what circumstances?
pjf







---"lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org> wrote:
>
> thanks for this post vlad,
> it truly cleared things up for me regarding permits
and the OPD :)
> lookin forward to love a-fair... anyone wanna be my
valentine? :)~
> xo
> lara
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 07:09:07 1998
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From: CheerioHN <CheerioHN@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:07:13 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Fun iN tha SnoW!!!
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Ok i know a couple months ago i was planning sumthin like lacie seems to have
in mind...two things are extremely difficilt...money, and well...money...ive
put the whole thing off because im moving to another part of truckee and
things are confuzing...but LACIE!!! im more than willing to help from this
end...i know fer sure i can get us tons of free offee from starbucks...since i
werk there and food and stuff like taht is not too hard to deal with thats
what costo was invented for, and theres one in reno, where i go to skool
everyday...soooooooo lemme know about these cabins you have your eye on... i
can check them out and figure out if they'll suit our needs, we need a head
ount as soon as possiable, i would hate to lose money on this, im savin to
move back to the bay :o) I also have a connection to discounted lift tickets
and most resorts have group rates if you let them klnow in advene...they even
hook up with lessons...its quite nice!!  So lets start out by lookin at these
places...i can go this weekend, im jus werkin, and also make sure you tell
these people what will be going on in their house...its a lot easier to be
honest so theres no surprises(i know this with experence...lets jus say in
mississippi, we would have lost a few limbs!) :o)
The snow is nice and if your ever in Truckee....remember to stop by starbucks
and introduce yourself, im there A LOT!!!! im the gurrl werkin in JNCOs :o)
(the locals make fun of me!!)
lots of snow an love!!
JiL :o)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 07:25:04 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:24:53 EST
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Subject: Re: snowboarding (for the insane)
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Aaaaaawwwwww YEEEEEAAAA!!!

Flying down soft white hills at uncanny speeds is always a rush.
Especially when you can crash, roll for thirty feet, stop when your head
plows10 feet into the snow, realize that half of your equipment has flown off,
and then 
get up and go again like nothing has happened.

I don't know of any other sport where you can bail soooo hard, and not get a
scratch from it.  (usually)  I love it!!!!!!!

I will definately go, and help out any way I can.

FROGMAN   ;c>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 07:32:33 1998
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From: "l mook l" <xchan_gamer@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Craziest experience at a rave
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I don't know if this has been discussed recently but I was curious as to 
what other peoples craziest drug/non-drug related experience at a rave 
was. For me it was back when I was in Boston before I got clean, about 3 
years ago.

I show up to this Armory in chelsea, Mass. I go in and I was going to 
get some E but they were charging $20 for a half and that was just two 
expensive so I decided to be the daring idiot and buy and drop $20 worth 
of LSD and with the rest of my friends on E and me trippin my balls off, 
It made for a more than interesting weekend.(trip kept goin and goin 
like that damn pink bunny) Well they had this big ape bouncy thing with 
a palm tree in one hand and a bannana in the other. I went in and 
started doin flips and stuff, I got tired and laid down. Really wierd 
the whole place never stopped movin. Well while inside somebody flicked 
a cig and the cherry exploded and landed on me. Let me tell you that 
would hae scared the crap out of me had it not looked so darn cool.

Well my little world colapsed. 

Actually Somebody knocked over and deflated the bouncy ape while me and 
other people were inside. Not good. I came out the top finally after 
trying to find my way out, which took forever, and tried to go back in 
because tht wasn't the proper exit. Oops.

After that this wierd girl kept following me around, and trying to kiss 
me and grope me. Normally I'd be cool but my head was in la la land and 
that kind of stuff was not on the agenda. The rafters were raining 
electricity and everybody looked like the inside of a lava lamp. 

I was staring at these people cuz I thought I knew them (the people I 
thought they were lived on the west coast so this was impossible) and 
the said" can I help you I said " No I'm sorry I'm just little waisted/" 
Well let me tell you I did not realize the utter stupidity of my 
statement until they clued me in to the fact that yes we were at a 
raveand yes EVERYBODY there was waisted. In my mind I don't know where 
the hell I was but it was not there.

 Patronizing a person on LSD does not improve their trip and it 
definitely sketches them out.

Well I wanted so bad to talk to somebody else about what I was seeing 
but all the people I was with were club kidz. They were Fraternity and 
sorority kidz and they were not interested. They were so wrapped up in 
trying to get more E and feeling good that I started to wig out. I don't 
know what it is but Every time I've tripped the only people that I 
trusted were either trippin with me or just those really cool people 
that are like  your friend in every situation, even when you make that 
one mistake for the thousanth time.

Well the night ended when they rolled up the gates to the loading dock 
and turned on the lights causing a lot of other people on lsd to freak. 
"Outside land was bad." This however got my trip back up and on the good 
side of things. The sunrise was awesome and all the colors were so 
bright and vivid. The only problem was that it took 1 1/2 hours to get a 
cab to take us back to Boston.

When I got back I started spinning around and dancing singing "I'm free, 
I'm free." I watched many things move around and do wierd things but 
that's another story.

MooK<><

PS Now reformed and don't need drugz to experience that kind of stuff 
;-)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 09:25:41 1998
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        "Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)" (Jan 15,  2:27pm)
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	"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14   4:57pm) <Pine.GSO.3.96.980114165118.16938A-100000@shell> 
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Vlad loves to play these passive-aggressive games.  Oh, NOBODY could
POSSIBLY understand what we poor put-upon promoters have to go through.
In fact, if you ONLY KNEW what I do then you would see everything MY way
and all you snivelling little ravers wouldn't complain any longer and
stop demanding your money's worth for parties.  

puh-LEEZE.

Vlad, word to the wise: ya gotta walk it like ya talk it.  If you have
something more to contribute to this discussion than vague generalities
and defenses of promoters almost entirely without regard to what they
actually do, then let's hear it.

phred

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 10:52:53 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
cc: rwpointer@citiscape.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: raves and politics was:Re: Raver Parade
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, .oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Minh Q. Le <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
> 
> >On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, .oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
> >
> >> In my opinion, that is a positive thing...that ravers are not involved
> >> in bullshit politics....by being un-involved you are making just as
> >> big of a statement as wandering around with placards and signs...
> >
> >-->No, I think you are wrong. You are not making a big statement by being
> >uninvolved because no one will know what your statement is.
> 
> I am not saying that people on their own should not be involved in
> politics -
> i definitely think it's cool if they are. I am just saying I'm glad the rave
> scene
> in general is not. (and by politics i mean governmental)
> 
> By being uninvolved and throwing illegal, free parties we are definitely
> making
> a statement.

-->Yes, that statement would be that all ravers are not law-abiding
citizens and due to the nature of the scene breaking the law and doing
illegal things while on drugs is what raving is all about.  I love free
parties and illegal UGs that keep the scene fresh, but outside observers
don't see it as a party for the sake of the music and outside observers
certainly wouldn't know or care about all the bureaucratic costs that
"legal" events entail.
	The rave scene most definitely is involved with politics...we're
on every governmental hit list, and pulling an ostrich is certainly not
gonna make it go away.




> 
> A statement that not everything on earth has to revolve around money, that
> we don't care about stupid laws prohibiting teens and adults from dancing in
> the same building (that is a law they have here in seattle called the teen
> dance ordinance), that we feel that people should have REAL freedom to put
> in their bodies what they want to without regard for smoking/drug laws, etc.
> 

-->Well, that's all new news to me. If you hadn't told me the statement, I
would have missed some of its finer points.  However, place yourself in
the older generation who doesn't get any exposure to rave culture aside
from twisted expose's on television or other media...they most likely
would be very surprised at what you have just said; it would never  have
entered their minds.  The majority of people believe that raves are
nothing more than a front for drug abuse.





> It's easy
> >to just be inactive and let the shit run its course and then sit back and
> >moan and groan and bitch about how fascist everything is, but you don't
> >have the pregorative to do that because you didn't participate and try to
> >stop the shit from happening in the first place.
> 
> I agree with that, and definitely think people should do their part and
> participate.
> I am just glad it's separate from raves.


-->I don't understand how you can differentiate the two like that.  Don't
you get mad when someone dismisses you as a depravity because the image of
rave culture to them is completely false, and since you go to raves you
are part of this image?  And if this image in most likelyhood is negative,
wouldn't their political stance be against raves; and in a certain sense, 
against you as well? If someone said that all raves are full of sheep
stealing nazis, and accuse me of being one too because I am part of the
scene, I would most definitely educate them of their error. Doesn't that
touch on politics?


> 
> >-->Who said anything about converting? I think its enough to march on
> >Washington just to show those bastards that we have the power and to
> >remind them that we placed them in office too; not just our parents.
> 
> I wouldn't disapprove of it, but I wouldn't want to label it a "raver"
> thing.
> 
> love kim


-->What would you label it...parade of the disenchanted and disillusioned?
Seriously though, I don't think we have enough ravers in the USA to make a
strong showing at all.  And if the rally banner were more broad...say
Generation XY&Z go to Washington...it would be like transvestites in a gay
pride march; visible but pretty much segregated and unempowered.



:)
M&m  


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 11:52:15 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:

> In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-15-98 15:08
> 
> 
> "Some of us imports can't do squat cuz we can't vote.
> From Ireland orginally for those that care."
> 
> Ditto that...am a dual citizen of Philippines and Spain...I think I'd get
> kicked outta here if I started protesting and getting really invovled...already
> got turned down to be a U.S. citizen (family's political involvement elsewhere
> I suspect)...just happy to have a greencard...you can say how the U.S. is lame
> and it sucks until you live somewhere else...an informed decision is the best
> decision...

-->I _have_ lived somewhere else and I still think the U.S. is lame.  I
just like San Francisco, that's all. Believe me, I wouldn't want to be
stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or the MIdwest because I would
probably get lynched. You see, I am not European, i don't look European,
and even though I am more educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as
a European, and since the majority of US stock is still mostly European-
descendant I will get the shorter heavier end of the stick.  And since I
am an FoB from Vietnam and everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that
popular with veterans groups either.
	Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the
citizenship exam and been through the sworn in process?  I did it when I
turned 18 (this is kinda funny, but for some reason both of my parents
became naturalized when I was still a minor, technically making me a
citizen too, but they forgot to declare me as their son--their only
child--on their paperwork...go figure) and after numerous years of
elementary, junior high, and high school American history indoctrination
my BS alarm was going super-balistic. I couldn't believe the list of possible
exam questions, it would have eliminated the whole state of Kentucky as
citizen material, at least. Too bad there weren't any questions about
killing Injuns or enslaving Blacks or interning Japanese-Americans in
concentration camps. If that wasn't bad enough I almost gagged during the
swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last minute flight from SF to LA in
the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock of nationalist propaganda
shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and smelling apple pie with
visions of the American dream and the statue of liberty, of course...they
wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.
	But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.
	I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived
in Germany, I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have
also lived in freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout
price comparisons and informed decisions. And even though the USA is the
lesser evil, it's still got a long ways to go.




> I do what I can but I know the limits, living under marshal law is
> unpleasant to say the least...until you see people dying around you for no
> reason,

-->What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.


> I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
> forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
> (imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
> 
> DISCO 2000,
> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
> 

-->I'm not gonna say a single word about that one, not a single one, cuz
I've said plenty in previous threads about it already.


:)
M&m


PS	I think San Francisco has the best quality raves of all, and I'm
surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth off
so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time :)  Now does
that make it rave related? 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 12:10:46 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:10:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Subject: Re: Vietnamese Din Din Night?!
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-->Well, just to let you know that I'm back in the Bay Area (in case you
didn't know)...and that I am still up for it :))))~~  ...any time, any
place, any where baby...oh sorry, got carried away with Janet Jackson
there; damn radio.

:)
M&m

On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> Toof wrote:
> > 
> > Yummy!!!!!!!!!!!! I live right in da middle of where all the yummy yummy
> > vietnamese restaurants are...so if you guys are gonna do a
> > sfravers/vietnamese din din night..i wanna go!!!!!!! =P
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a few are interested. After the holidays when people
> have more time, we should all meet for dinner. I cant wait to 
> see the restaurant owners face.
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 14:42:21 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:39:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK!
To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>, Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com>
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This is too funny Andy.

> P.S. Pictionary kicks ass with nice people.  I just
>hope that none of you
> ever have the traumatic experience of having to
draw >"sabotage"  after a
> session with the Grafix though... it almost killed
me >(no, it wasn't an
> All Play, and no, my team didn't end up getting to
>roll again).  I'm still
> depressed about it... the other team didn't get
words >like that...

I had to draw "illusion" my sister is keeping the
pictures for bribing purposes, put it that way. I
didn't even have the Grafix excuse goin' for me.

LL


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 15:00:08 1998
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     I'm totally willing to help do this Sno'B week-end! How many people 
     are seriously interested in going??  
     
     THANKS LACIE

I wanna go...!  I do!  I really do...!  I will be glad 2 help anyway I can...!
I can fit 4 people in my Honda pretty comfortably... if anyone needs a
ride.... so lets do this!!!!!   

~Michael

p.s.  I've never boarded b4... only skiied.... but I'll take lessons!  ....and
i can use my roommate's ski rack too... 2 fit things on top....

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 15:13:14 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:17:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: dj i.d.
To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>, Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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Hey *byroni*,Steven

Could be Rob Rayle also??? You would be lucky thats for
sure.

Layne





---*byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Rob Doten.... :)
> Daddy's is in Berkeley too.... 
> 
> Peeeeeeeesssshhhhout!
> 
> BYRONI da friendly neighborhood Spacey Cowboyee..
> 
> "He's not weird or spacey... you're just not on the
level... whatever
> level that is.. I do not know.. nor choose to go
there..."
> 	-JL Washington, 12 Monkeys
> 
> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:
> 
> > 
> > we have a guy playing here in Honolulu on the
24th named Rob Drake from Daddy's
> > Records SF...ring a bell with anyone?...wanted to
ask again to make
> > sure...thanks...
> > 
> > DISCO 2000,
> > moki4u2c@hotmail.com
> > 
> 
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> 
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
> 			-me
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 15:21:01 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:24:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Here's some more articles from our local press
To: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Very cool post David, we need these ladies to get more
exposure, they sure deserve it.

Layne





---David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com> wrote:
>
> Here's one about a new club in town, Sister....
> 
> http://www.sfbg.com/Music/32/15/sister.html
> 
> And about Atari Teenage Riot...
> 
> http://www.sfbg.com/Earshot/core.html
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> David
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David Minuk
> WWW:  My URL is http://www.wco.com/~davidmin/
> Please note my new e-mail address & URL.
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 16:15:06 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:17:57 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Courtesy & Respect/Smoking
Cc: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>, "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
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Dear Rave Friends,

        You know, I'm really glad someone brought this up ("courtesy" as an
alternative to "respect").  It's too bad that "PLUC" doesn't have the ring
to it that "PLUR" does.

        Why do I prefer "courtesy" to "respect" in this context?  Some of
it has to do with word-associations:  For me, respect calls to mind the law
of the jungle ("you disrespect me, I'll kick your ass"), whereas when I
think of courtesy, I'm reminded of simple, often-overlooked personal
gestures of consideration ("do you mind if I smoke?").

       Respect is usually demanded, while courtesy is politely requested.
Respect implies a certain quality of admiration, which is why some people
like to say that "respect must be earned."  It is perhaps too much to
expect everyone to "respect" you at a party; but it is not too much to ask
that they be courteous.

        Which isn't to say you should have to ask everyone in a crowded
club before you light up, just to use good manners coupled with common
sense.  I don't smoke, but I don't like the ban, either -- the choice of
whether to allow smoking should be up to the owners or managers of an
establishment, not the state.  Perhaps the best solution is to have both
smoking and smoke-free areas.

Much love,
                                <<< Starchild >>>


My computer tells me that John shared:

>---"John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com> wrote:
>
>> Nope, that alternative to freedom is respect, which
>> often requires some curbs in the practice of being
>>free.  I'm 100% down
>> with that alternative.
>

And Layne shared:

>Hey John,
>
>I agree, but perhaps a better word would be courtesy
>instead of respect. Just being considerate towards
>others. It seems to be somewhat of a lost practice
>these days.
>
>Take Care
>Layne



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 16:22:27 1998
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To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: NRR: Sprite commercials
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Dear Rave Friends,

        Remember "image is nothing, thirst is everything"?  Well I just
heard a new radio commercial for Sprite yesterday that appears to be part
of the same campaign.

        This one really caught my attention, because it has the sound of an
Enigma song with Gregorian chanting.  Voices are intoning stuff like
"drinking Sprite will make you enlightened,"  "Sprite will help you achieve
universal harmony," "Sprite is the fountain of eternal youth," etc. (these
aren't direct quotes, I only heard it once).

        At the end of the commercial, a more normal-sounding voice comes
on, saying that if you think a beverage is going to make you young and
perfect you need to get a life, or something to that effect.

        I love ads that fuck with your head like that -- tell all these
wonderful lies about your product, then disassociate yourself from the
message.  Anybody know which ad agency comes up with this stuff, and what
other work they are doing?  It's fascinating to watch a company try to
build a product image by dumping on the idea of a product having an image.
Also interesting how some products become images as some images become
products...

                                   <<< Starchild >>>


                      Don't "just do it," think about it first!
                Don't "just be," be someone positive and interesting!






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 16:28:36 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:25:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Courtesy & Respect/Smoking
To: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>, Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Cc: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>, "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
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Hi Starchild,


> Respect implies a certain quality of admiration,
>which is why some people
> like to say that "respect must be earned."  It is 

Thank you, thats exactly what I am saying, I think John
is as well. Although, Webster's does include
"Willingness to show consideration or appreciation."
as one of the latter definitions I believe if we were
all a bit more considerate, perhaps some respect would
instantly be credited.

Layne


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 16:32:08 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:23:20 -0500
To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Ruth Jennison <ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re:  !~raves and politics~!
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At 03:08 PM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Some of us imports can't do squat cuz we can't vote.
>From Ireland orginally for those that care.

Voting has very little to do with the engine for social change which is far
more more likely to be produced by social pressure from below in the form of
demonstrations pickets rallies and most importantly i would argue, strikes
by the U.S's increasingly distrustful working class. 

There is simply no way for a rave "collective" to exist in capitalist
society, just like it is impossible to have socialism in one country.
However, what I find most exhilarating about raving is that it presents the
**possibilities** of social interaction and self organization, such as what
we might find in a society democratically controlled by its population.

Just my two cents.

PS Does anyone have anything to say about Juno Reactors remixes of Front 242
stuff, since weve been on the goth/ industrial/ techno hybrid thread?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 17:08:07 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:05:08 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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To: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org, "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
Subject: Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)
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pj fuzzy wrote:

> I musta missed the post on love affair.
> when is it(i'm guessing around 14 feb duh)
> where
> what
> why
> how
> and under what circumstances?
> pjf
>
> ---"lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org> wrote:
> >
> > thanks for this post vlad,
> > it truly cleared things up for me regarding permits
> and the OPD :)
> > lookin forward to love a-fair... anyone wanna be my
> valentine? :)~
> > xo
> > lara
> >
> >

Actually, the original post was not about Love A-Fair... but since you
asked....

Here is the information of the calendar.....

Saturday, February 14th - Feel Good Entertainment presents Love A-Fair
'98
"The Underground Carnival" Valentine's Day PLURity Vibe-Fest and Six
year anniversary
Pascal (XTC/Canada), Stryke (Adrenaline/Fla), Troy Roberts
(Platnum/Sea), Tony & Simon (on 4), MODA & Jazz-E
(TranceFusion), Carlos, Essence, Tracy, Ghost & Frank Nitty, Roman &
Nitsuj (Sea), Kevin Kind & Kwashi, Paucus &
Tripnotix, Josh Schwab & Corey, Macadio & Micron, Joey & Darrell, Rinse,
Flux, Stareyes, MC Fluid, Tina K. & Max Alert
(Generic/LA), MIA (Sea), hak, Sideburn Slim, Miss Knight, Glo Worm,
Moshe, Vertigo, Ulrich, Spinner, Deepfog,
Boomerang, Jeff Taisch, Jonathan, Chillz, Ray Vonie.
limited pre sale tix go on sale 2.1.98 for $20.
portion of proceeds benefit environmental organizations.
Love-Bus trips including admission from LA ($45) and Seattle ($75). Call
415.568.1338 for info.
http://www.globalparty.com
                               415.263.0483 510.888.2358 408.881.0785

call one of the info lines for additional info on the event.   And as a
special Bonus... We will be selling a very limited number of one time
only $15 pre sales to Love A-Fair at the Planet rock party, stop by the
FGE booth to pick up the flyer.

Have a great weekend...

Keep it Real....   Vlad


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 17:14:26 1998
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From: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>
Message-Id: <199801161714.JAA11209@atari.saturn5.com>
Subject: DRUGS - DEA finds sufficient grounds to reschedule marijuana (fwd)
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:14:04 -0800 (PST)
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A Press Release from the Law Offices of Michael Kennedy

For Immediate Release

DEA FINALLY CONFIRMS THE EXISTENCE OF SUFFICIENT GROUNDS TO REMOVE
MARIJUANA FROM HARD DRUGS SCHEDULE OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES

DEA REFERS MARIJUANA RESCHEDULING PETITION TO HHS

Introduction

Recent scientific evidence has forced the US Government through its
Justice Department agency, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), to
commence legally binding procedures that will likely result in the end of
marijuana prohibition.

On December 19th, DEA formally asked the Department of Health and Human
Services to conduct "a scientific and medical evaluation of the available
data and provide a scheduling recommendation" for marijuana and other
cannabinoid drugs.  This DEA request of HHS means that the DEA has for the
first time made its own determination that sufficient grounds exist to
remove marijuana from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act (CSA).
Schedule I is supposed to be limited to hard drugs with addictive
propensities and with no legitimate medical usage.

The DEA request was made in response to an administrative petition filed
July 10, 1995 by Petitioners Jon Gettman and Trans High Corporation,
publisher of High Times Magazine.

The Petition presents evidence and argument that marijuana and
cannabinoids lack the "high potential for abuse" required for Schedule I
and Schedule II drugs under the (CSA).

Trans-High Corporation, the publishers of High Times, joined with Mr.
Gettman in mid-1995 to provide support for the petition during the
administrative rule-making process.  Petitioners are represented by the
Law Offices of Michael Kennedy, which today released a copy of a letter
>from DEA notifying petitioners of the HHS referral.

Petitioners are represented by the Law Offices of Michael Kennedy in New
York City, which today released a copy of the letter from DEA notifying
Petitioners of the HHS referral.

Background.

According to a July 27, 1995, letter from DEA Deputy Administrator Stephen
Greene, accepting the Petition for filing:

"The DEA shall determine within a reasonable period of time whether there
are sufficient grounds to justify removing marijuana . . . from Schedule I
. . .(S)hould DEA determine that there are sufficient grounds, then it
must request a medical and scientific recommendation from the Secretary of
the Department of Health and Human Services."

Thus DEA can request the advice of HHS only after DEA's investigation
confirms that sufficient grounds exist to remove marijuana from Schedule
I.  According to the CSA the findings and recommendations of HHS with
regard to scientific and medical matters are binding on DEA.  DEA has
never before voluntarily referred a marijuana rescheduling petition to HHS
for binding review.

The Gettman/High times Petition demonstrates that HHS has never produced a
finding that marijuana actually has the high potential for abuse similar
to heroin or cocaine.  A high potential for abuse is required for Schedule
I treatment. Further, the legislative history of the CSA indicates that
Congress only intended for marijuana to remain in Schedule I or II if such
a finding could be produced.  This Petition challenges the government to
produce such a finding (where none exists) or be legally required to end
marijuana prohibition by removing marijuana from Schedule I.

Removal of marijuana from Schedule I will require the federal government
to sanction legal distribution of marijuana for medical uses, research and
prescriptions and adopt a regulatory rather than a prohibitory model for
marijuana.  The end of prohibition and the advent of regulation will
represent a radical change in the legal status of marijuana in the United
States.

The Petition argues that the discovery of the Cannabinoid Receptor System,
which has enabled scientists to explain the cause of marijuana's
characteristic effects, and provides a basis for making detailed
distinctions among the biological effects of marijuana and other drugs.
These distinctions provide the scientific basis for demonstrating that
marijuana does not have the same high potential for abuse as other
Schedule I or II drugs.

DEA reversal of position.

The DEA to HHS referral represents a historic turn-around for DEA..

Gettman first asked DEA to refer marijuana to HHS for the appropriate
scientific and medical evaluation back in October of 1994.  In March 1995,
in a letter to Gettman's congressman,  DEA claimed that "unless a
substance has an accepted medical use in the United States, in can only be
placed in Schedule I."  By letter dated April 21, 1995, DEA Administrator
Thomas Constantine stated that DEA was:

"unaware of any new scientific studies of marijuana that would lead us to
re-evaluate its classification at this time . . . If Mr. Gettman has
access to scientific data concerning marijuana which he wishes to bring to
our attention, we will be pleased to consider it, should he care to share
the documentation with us."

The Gettman/High Times Petition provided the specific scientific
documentation that caused the DEA to reverse itself and to acknowledge for
the first time ever that a sufficient scientific basis exists for
reclassification of marijuana out of Schedule I

Petitioners.

Jon Gettman served as National Director of the National Organization for
the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) from 1986 to 1989, and has provided
articles and columns for High Times since 1985.   Gettman is currently
working on his doctorate in public policy and regional economic
development at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia.

Mr. Gettman issued the following statement:

"People are sent to jail every day because of mistaken assumptions about
the abuse potential of marijuana, assumptions that have never been
scientifically proved.  DEA's recognition of this is a welcome and
important step, and in many respects recognition of the importance of the
scientific work of individuals such as Allyn Howlett, William Devane,
Miles Herkenham, Leo Hollister, Denise Kandel, Norman Zinberg, Lester
Grinspoon and other scientists on whose work my petition rests.  But this
is also recognition that in many respects marijuana prohibition has been a
cruel hoax on the American people.  People think marijuana is in Schedule
I for scientific reasons, and that these reasons legitimize prohibition,
arrests and prison terms.   DEA has just acknowledged that there is a lot
of scientific knowledge they haven't considered when they justify
marijuana's Schedule I status.  In other words, DEA has presented a
distorted picture of marijuana to government officials and to the public.
I hope our petition will contribute to resolving some of the confusion
created by these distortions."

High Times Magazine, by its Editor in Chief, Peter Gorman, issued the
following statement:

"High Times is thrilled that the DEA has acknowledged that there was never
sufficient reason to place cannabis in Schedule I of the CSA, and proud
that the petition originated with Jon Gettman's two part series on
"Marijuana and the Brain" which appeared in our pages in March and July
1995.  We hope that journalists from all media who have covered the War on
Drugs will recognize the importance of the DEA's admission regarding the
scheduling of cannabis -- which could potentially result in the end of
prohibition of this benign and medically helpful herb -- and will report
it with the same vigor with which they have reported other DEA findings.
High Times looks forward to the results of the Department of Health and
human Services' investigation of the scientific and medical data regarding
cannabis with great anticipation."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tsheets@saturn5.com                        <- You have found me   
tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com                  <- Official Use Only
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troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com               <- Inquire Within

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 17:38:04 1998
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From: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
To: "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: PLANET CRACK ROCK
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:41:52 -0800
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I would like to meet up with you at Planet Crack Rock!
I don't know what i'll be wearing but I will be looking for you...
Anybody else going?  I'd like to meet up with some SFRavers!!!!

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

Rick

>I'll be heading down to Planet Rock, and would love to get to know ya'all.
>I'll be the guy with the long blond hair, in bright blue pants with the big
>yellow stripe down the sides.  And if there's any good circles goin down,
>that's where I'll be. 
>Happy Hippity Hoppities,
>FROGMAN



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 17:52:04 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:55:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: DRUGS - DEA finds sufficient grounds to reschedule marijuana (fwd)
To: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Cc: goa@party.net
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I'll be damned there is a God after all.

LL





---Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com> wrote:
>
> 
> A Press Release from the Law Offices of Michael
Kennedy
> 
> For Immediate Release
> 
> DEA FINALLY CONFIRMS THE EXISTENCE OF SUFFICIENT
GROUNDS TO REMOVE
> MARIJUANA FROM HARD DRUGS SCHEDULE OF CONTROLLED
SUBSTANCES
> 
> DEA REFERS MARIJUANA RESCHEDULING PETITION TO HHS
> 
> Introduction
> 
> Recent scientific evidence has forced the US
Government through its
> Justice Department agency, the Drug Enforcement
Administration (DEA), to
> commence legally binding procedures that will
likely result in the end of
> marijuana prohibition.
> 
> On December 19th, DEA formally asked the Department
of Health and Human
> Services to conduct "a scientific and medical
evaluation of the available
> data and provide a scheduling recommendation" for
marijuana and other
> cannabinoid drugs.  This DEA request of HHS means
that the DEA has for the
> first time made its own determination that
sufficient grounds exist to
> remove marijuana from Schedule I of the Controlled
Substances Act (CSA).
> Schedule I is supposed to be limited to hard drugs
with addictive
> propensities and with no legitimate medical usage.
> 
> The DEA request was made in response to an
administrative petition filed
> July 10, 1995 by Petitioners Jon Gettman and Trans
High Corporation,
> publisher of High Times Magazine.
> 
> The Petition presents evidence and argument that
marijuana and
> cannabinoids lack the "high potential for abuse"
required for Schedule I
> and Schedule II drugs under the (CSA).
> 
> Trans-High Corporation, the publishers of High
Times, joined with Mr.
> Gettman in mid-1995 to provide support for the
petition during the
> administrative rule-making process.  Petitioners
are represented by the
> Law Offices of Michael Kennedy, which today
released a copy of a letter
> >from DEA notifying petitioners of the HHS referral.
> 
> Petitioners are represented by the Law Offices of
Michael Kennedy in New
> York City, which today released a copy of the
letter from DEA notifying
> Petitioners of the HHS referral.
> 
> Background.
> 
> According to a July 27, 1995, letter from DEA
Deputy Administrator Stephen
> Greene, accepting the Petition for filing:
> 
> "The DEA shall determine within a reasonable period
of time whether there
> are sufficient grounds to justify removing
marijuana . . . from Schedule I
> . . .(S)hould DEA determine that there are
sufficient grounds, then it
> must request a medical and scientific
recommendation from the Secretary of
> the Department of Health and Human Services."
> 
> Thus DEA can request the advice of HHS only after
DEA's investigation
> confirms that sufficient grounds exist to remove
marijuana from Schedule
> I.  According to the CSA the findings and
recommendations of HHS with
> regard to scientific and medical matters are
binding on DEA.  DEA has
> never before voluntarily referred a marijuana
rescheduling petition to HHS
> for binding review.
> 
> The Gettman/High times Petition demonstrates that
HHS has never produced a
> finding that marijuana actually has the high
potential for abuse similar
> to heroin or cocaine.  A high potential for abuse
is required for Schedule
> I treatment. Further, the legislative history of
the CSA indicates that
> Congress only intended for marijuana to remain in
Schedule I or II if such
> a finding could be produced.  This Petition
challenges the government to
> produce such a finding (where none exists) or be
legally required to end
> marijuana prohibition by removing marijuana from
Schedule I.
> 
> Removal of marijuana from Schedule I will require
the federal government
> to sanction legal distribution of marijuana for
medical uses, research and
> prescriptions and adopt a regulatory rather than a
prohibitory model for
> marijuana.  The end of prohibition and the advent
of regulation will
> represent a radical change in the legal status of
marijuana in the United
> States.
> 
> The Petition argues that the discovery of the
Cannabinoid Receptor System,
> which has enabled scientists to explain the cause
of marijuana's
> characteristic effects, and provides a basis for
making detailed
> distinctions among the biological effects of
marijuana and other drugs.
> These distinctions provide the scientific basis for
demonstrating that
> marijuana does not have the same high potential for
abuse as other
> Schedule I or II drugs.
> 
> DEA reversal of position.
> 
> The DEA to HHS referral represents a historic
turn-around for DEA..
> 
> Gettman first asked DEA to refer marijuana to HHS
for the appropriate
> scientific and medical evaluation back in October
of 1994.  In March 1995,
> in a letter to Gettman's congressman,  DEA claimed
that "unless a
> substance has an accepted medical use in the United
States, in can only be
> placed in Schedule I."  By letter dated April 21,
1995, DEA Administrator
> Thomas Constantine stated that DEA was:
> 
> "unaware of any new scientific studies of marijuana
that would lead us to
> re-evaluate its classification at this time . . .
If Mr. Gettman has
> access to scientific data concerning marijuana
which he wishes to bring to
> our attention, we will be pleased to consider it,
should he care to share
> the documentation with us."
> 
> The Gettman/High Times Petition provided the
specific scientific
> documentation that caused the DEA to reverse itself
and to acknowledge for
> the first time ever that a sufficient scientific
basis exists for
> reclassification of marijuana out of Schedule I
> 
> Petitioners.
> 
> Jon Gettman served as National Director of the
National Organization for
> the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) from 1986 to
1989, and has provided
> articles and columns for High Times since 1985.  
Gettman is currently
> working on his doctorate in public policy and
regional economic
> development at George Mason University in Fairfax,
Virginia.
> 
> Mr. Gettman issued the following statement:
> 
> "People are sent to jail every day because of
mistaken assumptions about
> the abuse potential of marijuana, assumptions that
have never been
> scientifically proved.  DEA's recognition of this
is a welcome and
> important step, and in many respects recognition of
the importance of the
> scientific work of individuals such as Allyn
Howlett, William Devane,
> Miles Herkenham, Leo Hollister, Denise Kandel,
Norman Zinberg, Lester
> Grinspoon and other scientists on whose work my
petition rests.  But this
> is also recognition that in many respects marijuana
prohibition has been a
> cruel hoax on the American people.  People think
marijuana is in Schedule
> I for scientific reasons, and that these reasons
legitimize prohibition,
> arrests and prison terms.   DEA has just
acknowledged that there is a lot
> of scientific knowledge they haven't considered
when they justify
> marijuana's Schedule I status.  In other words, DEA
has presented a
> distorted picture of marijuana to government
officials and to the public.
> I hope our petition will contribute to resolving
some of the confusion
> created by these distortions."
> 
> High Times Magazine, by its Editor in Chief, Peter
Gorman, issued the
> following statement:
> 
> "High Times is thrilled that the DEA has
acknowledged that there was never
> sufficient reason to place cannabis in Schedule I
of the CSA, and proud
> that the petition originated with Jon Gettman's two
part series on
> "Marijuana and the Brain" which appeared in our
pages in March and July
> 1995.  We hope that journalists from all media who
have covered the War on
> Drugs will recognize the importance of the DEA's
admission regarding the
> scheduling of cannabis -- which could potentially
result in the end of
> prohibition of this benign and medically helpful
herb -- and will report
> it with the same vigor with which they have
reported other DEA findings.
> High Times looks forward to the results of the
Department of Health and
> human Services' investigation of the scientific and
medical data regarding
> cannabis with great anticipation."
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> tsheets@saturn5.com                        <- You
have found me   
> tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com                  <-
Official Use Only
> http://www.saturn5.com/tsheets/            <-
Instant Content
> troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com               <-
Inquire Within
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 18:08:21 1998
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From: RaveOnSF <RaveOnSF@aol.com>
Message-ID: <598a5bf.34bf9ec9@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:54:15 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: HEEEYYYLOWW!
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In a message dated 98-01-16 02:26:11 EST, you write:

Hey everybodies!!!!!
 Im new so hi to all of yous that i know
 and all of yous that i don't! My name is 
 snoop dogee dog, but you can call me
 Snoop, most do. 
 Now about this smokin' shit, who da  
 fuck cares?!?! Yeah smokin is bad fer
 ya, it smells like shite, but people do it,
 Lots of damn cute raver kids do it and
 jus cuz they smoke shouldn't keep them 
 from a party, why would someone pass
 up a supa dope party jus cuz theres no 
 smokin'? I can't believe people let shite 
 rule their lives like that...damn pathetic
  if you ask me!
 This snowboardin shite looks dope too, 
 never been to lake tahoe myself but it 
 sounds cool, and snow sounds pretty 
 cool too!
 So you all keep it real...
 sNoop*


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 18:15:25 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:17:35 -0800
To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: Planet Crock/Crack Rock!
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boomerang said:
>> But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
>> colored people.
>> Smoking crack.
........................................
AndyDub said:
>Well pass me that pipe Peter, cause I got something to say...  [cut, see
>below for the rest]



Well shucks, Andy, I hope you didn't miss my point.  (Well, maybe
not....but your thoughts appeared to be...racing.)    Here's a a little
Pictionary hint:  one word, two syllables, sounds like flat tire.

I was intentionally using outdated, caucasian-centric vernacular to make my
point.   I have a very low tolerance for 14-year old rugrats making racist
and classist comments about parties where African- Americans are
performing.   Browse SFRaves Archives for Paul's "Ghetto Children" posts on
the last Planet Rock, which featured Afrikaa Bambaataa and Grandmaster
Flash.

It's sad that folks like Flash and Bambaataa were turntable/underground
party pioneers,
and when they show up at Our parties, we act as if they're invading Our
scene, bringing their crack cocaine from the ghettos.  Having this default
stereotype (nonwhite = ghettoes and crack cocaine) is a fucked up, back
asswards mentality.  An embarrassment to rave.

It's all fine and good if Paul is friends of the folks who are throwing the
party,  though I would question what sort of person promotes his friends'
parties with implications of crack cocaine and crocks of shit.

b))merang



............................................................
>Well pass me that pipe Peter, cause I got something to say... peel slowly
>and see:
>
>So far, I've visited Planet Rock's website, where they all but guarantee
>no gangstas at their parties:
>
>"Our message is simple, there is no message"
>
>so we're coming together to celebrate... er... nothing (I tend to be
>partial to those parties promising me a 14 orgasm mayan yellow overtone
>seed spritual 7th layer headfuck with my inner child's third eye actually,
>it's a little deeper than 10,000 people getting together after paying
>money to get in to celebrate... er...  nothing.  I guess if you have
>nothing to say, don't say "we have nothing to say", just say " ")... and
>then later...
>
>"welcome to the core of the underground, no corporations, no gangstas, no
>attitude, just 10,000 happy kids sweatin, and jumpin, and cheerin."
>
>It probably has a decent chance of being a good party, I've never been to
>one, and I'll usually try anything once (I'd probably go at the insistence
>of some great folks I met last weekend, if I wasn't doing stuff down
>here).
>
>I find this *no gangstas* thing funny (not funny ha ha, more like funny
>something's wrong), because my only exposure to Planet Rock in any way was
>meeting the promoter, an early-mid twenties caucasian kid who wears baggy
>pants, a windbreaker with some obscure writing on the back (I'd probably
>understand if I was down with his crew), short hair and a little bit of an
>attitude problem (I realize it was probably a bad night for him, but I'm
>making a point here) weilding a 40oz at a beach party, trying to tell me
>what to do with my sound system (it wouldn't fit, I honestly don't know
>what he was thinking).
>
>I'm pretty sure all I'd need to do is put the same clothes and attitude on
>a gentleman of color with a similar physical build and half the people
>planning on going would take off in the other direction (aieee... gang
>members... honey, lock the door or they'll take our Blaupunkt and daddy's
>gas card). So is color the only line between what we consider RAVER and
>what we consider GANGSTA?  Check yourselves, we've avoided this topic for
>a while, but I see stuff like this and I gotta ask...
>
>Just wanted to point that strange dissonance of statements out.
>
>AndyW
>
>P.S. Pictionary kicks ass with nice people.  I just hope that none of you
>ever have the traumatic experience of having to draw "sabotage"  after a
>session with the Grafix though... it almost killed me (no, it wasn't an
>All Play, and no, my team didn't end up getting to roll again).  I'm still
>depressed about it... the other team didn't get words like that...

.....................
>> >>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
>> >>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
>> >>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
>> >>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
>> >>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
>> >>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
>> >>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
>> >>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
>> >>Love,
>> >>Paul*E*Wog
.....................
>> But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
>> colored people.
>> Smoking crack.
>>
>> b))merang
.......................
>> >>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
>> >>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
>> >>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
>> >>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
>> >>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
>> >>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
>> >>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
>> >>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
>> >>Love,
>> >>Paul*E*Wog



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 18:35:07 1998
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From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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To: Fred Heutte <phred@well.com>
CC: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))
References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com> 
		"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14   4:57pm) <Pine.GSO.3.96.980114165118.16938A-100000@shell> 
		<v04003a01b0e3ff458b26@[207.93.14.13]> 
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Fred Heutte wrote:

> Vlad loves to play these passive-aggressive games.  Oh, NOBODY could
> POSSIBLY understand what we poor put-upon promoters have to go through.
> In fact, if you ONLY KNEW what I do then you would see everything MY way
> and all you snivelling little ravers wouldn't complain any longer and
> stop demanding your money's worth for parties.

A.  If you can't, or don't want to contribute to the 'informative' aspect of
this thread, and wish to make it personal... then you should respond
privately.

B.   If that's all that you retained after reading my post, clarifying the
permit aspects in oakland, then you missed the point.

C.   Just a few statistics for the record.  MOST promoters (2/3) that pour
their heart, soul, and money into throwing parties are lucky to break even.
Those that do break even only do so by a narrow margin.  And Those that do
not break even wind up loosing anywhere from $10K-$30K.  The Average return
on a party that does not loose money is about $10K.  But Statistics have
proven, that most promoters will take a bath 1 out of every 4 events, and
break even 1 out of 3 events.
        So lets review.....  if you throw 4 events a year... then it is
considered an excellent year if you make $10K... and a good year if you
don't loose any money.  And a pretty crapy year if you loose your ass.   So
where's all this money that all these promoters are exploiting from the rave
scene.   Of all my years in this scene, I've only seen a select handful of
promoters EVER able to make a living off throwing parties... and those that
did... Still struggled financially.    And every once in a while... a
promoter may finally get lucky and hit a jackpot.  But it takes a lot to get
to that point, and by then it is so overdue, that it is usually enough to
cover old debts form past parties, and you start the cycle all over again.
        Sounds dismal, and pointless doesn't it.  Financially it is.  And
the odds in Vegas, are way better than promoting raves... so the Question is
WHY BOTHER???    The answer to that is as individual as the promoters.  I do
it because I'm a big idiot that has a vision of making people happy, and
leaving my mark on society.  Others do it because they are DJ's and the only
way they can spin out is at their own parties, and their desire to play,
blinds them to the financial consequences.  Many do it for the fame,
popularity, sex and drugs (bad reasons).   But the majority of promoters
just want to have a party, express their ideals through their event, and
have a great time, with the hope of making some money on the side.  It's a
great dream :)  But its a harsh reality.

> puh-LEEZE.
>
> Vlad, word to the wise: ya gotta walk it like ya talk it.  If you have
> something more to contribute to this discussion than vague generalities
> and defenses of promoters almost entirely without regard to what they
> actually do, then let's hear it.

    Ok... if you want to know what promoters do.. The answer is simple...
They are the BACKBONE of this scene.  They are the only major interface
between; the public and the industry (or) the ravers and the community.
Promoters are the primary source By which this scene exists.  They are THE
economic distribution network that financially supports all those that make
a living in this community/scene.  Promoters build the scene by attracting
new ravers to their parties.  They take money form the ravers and distribute
it to the DJ's, Sound, Lighting, Visuals, Graphic/web designers, Record
labels, Printers, Magazines, Vendors, Staff, Flyer distributors, Record
Stores, Clothing Stores.... And the list goes on.   And If they are lucky,
there is something left over for their hard work.     Promoters health is
usually less than average because they are always under pressure form every
angle, and do not live a normal lifestyle (not that normal means anything
anymore in today's society).   Promoters are open targets to Police,
Lawyers, IRS, DEA, Insurance Investigators, Parents, News, Media and
Internet Discusion Group criticism.  Ravers are looking to promoters to give
them their moneys worth at the parties, and the community is looking to the
promoters for financial support, and image identification.  If things don't
go as expected... Everyone uses the promoter as a scapegoat to dump all
their negative aggression on.   And every once in a while someone will
actually recognize, and say something nice about how much hard work and
effort promoters do... and it feels good... because for once, it's not
coming from your Mom, or girlfriend.  Oh... and don't let me forget about
the receding hairline... that's a dead giveaway of a promoter.
    So basically... why bother... HUM????    Well... it all comes down to
this.....

        The harder the task.... the sweater the reward.  :)

And despite all the crap... there are things about bringing diverse cultures
of people together through music and dance that make it all worth it, and
whether money is lost or not... the smiles on peoples faces are forever
imprinted in your mind.  And you know that your efforts created those
smiles... and then all of a sudden... all the bullshit is forgotten.... and
it all somehow makes sense.

Keep it Real... Vlad




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 18:45:10 1998
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From: tabitha hanrion <bewitched@rocketmail.com>
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First of all I don't think  Vlad's  trying to get us to feel sorry for
him  anymore then you're trying to get sympathy for making a wrong
judgment on which event to go too.

Seems like Vlad bashing is just silly (like most personal attacks) and
you're using him as a scapegoat. I don't think he's trying to
represent all promoters, just giving a little insight on another
viewpoint.  If you don't agree, great, but why make it personal?

Even if he does have nice legs and photographs well, that doesn't make
him the spokesmodel for all promoters.  Only Ed McMann and his
celebrity  panel of judges can do that..



> 
> > Vlad loves to play these passive-aggressive games.  Oh, NOBODY could
> > POSSIBLY understand what we poor put-upon promoters have to go
through.
> > In fact, if you ONLY KNEW what I do then you would see everything
MY way
> > and all you snivelling little ravers wouldn't complain any longer
and
> > stop demanding your money's worth for parties.
 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 19:03:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:00:54 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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OK...  Here's the deal....

Because we love you....
Because we know how hard it is to make a buck...
Because we want you there....
and
just because we feel like it....

We (FGE) will be selling a limited number of discounted advance tickets
to Love A-Fair '98 "The Underground Carnival" ...
for .... Not $25 (door price)... Nor $20 (pre sale price)....   But for
an incredibly low... $15.
PLUS Everyone stopping by will receive a bonus gift of a free bright and
colorful Love A-Fair '98 flyer, which is yours to keep even if you do
not go to the party.

When?:  This Saturday Night ONLY.
Where?:  At the Feel Good booth @ 'Planet Rock' party @ Home Base.
Why?:  Because it's never been done before.
Why else?:  Because we Love YOU... and We don't want money to be the
reason you can't make it to one of our parties.

But this is a one night only deal.  And only at the Planet Rock party.
(and NO... this is not a gimmick to get people to go to their party)  so
if you don't want to go inside... have a security person call me and I
will go outside and sell you a ticket.  If you are not able to take
advantage of this opportunity, you can still save $5 off door admission
by getting a pre sale when they go on sale on Feb. 1st @ any of the 15
NoCal outlets.  Additional info on the calendar or call 415-263-0483 to
hear 5 minutes of my irritating voice talking about the party. :)

Keep it Real...   Vlad


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 19:08:25 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:05:39 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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To: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
CC: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Planet *AcHcEcM*Rock Dj Schedules?
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They are planing on making small flyers at the party with the lineup on it.  Pick
one up at the FGE booth... along with the new flyer for Love A-Fair '98... and we
will also be doing one night only limited $15 pre sales at the booth.   Stop by
and say hello.  :)

Keep it real... Vlad

TeKnODiVa wrote:

> Does anyone have a list of who's spinning at what times?? Can't get lost in
> all that jungle and miss some other good sets.  Also.. are we having a meeting
> spot?? Or are you all just gonna look for my laser gun??
>
>        hugs n'stuff,
>           'trice the tekno diva
>
>    "^v^v^v^v^I get goose bumps when the bass thumps...^v^v^v^v^"




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 19:24:39 1998
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From: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
To: "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "Dirty \(E-mail\)" <dirtylist@west.net>
Subject: A new game for the arcades
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:28:29 -0800
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There is a new game in development for the arcades that I think that you guys 
would enjoy learning about...  It's a DJ turntable game!  You play a DJ and 
you have to spin music!  

Here's the URL where I found out about this game, just click on the link
that the page provides for news...  Under the link "Everybody wants to be a DJ"
http://www.psmonline.com/jsmid/index.html

Have fun!  

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

~Kick! Punch!  It's all in the mind.  
If you want to test me, 
I'm sure you'll find,
The moves I'll teach you,
They're sure to beat you,
But never the less,
You'll get a lesson from teacher!
 - Parappa the Rapper


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 19:34:01 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:39:41 -0800
From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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To: SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, lkayser@compare.net,
  Chris Trovato <ctrovato@compare.net>, Houston Jayne <hjayne@compare.net>,
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In case you thought this was a hoax (as I feared, considering it came
from the office of Mike Kennedy: Ski Victim), the NORML site talks
about it, also!

http://www.norml.org/news/fax/98/98-01-15.shtml

Proposed: special celebration today at 4:20. . .

Cheers,
Steve.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 19:49:19 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: xGrlStrX Re: Filipino?
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=XGrRLsTrX+40aol+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of 01-15-98 23:49


"HeY! FliP in the house! Were u born there? I was...I lived there for ten
years. I don;t know of very many Pinoy(candy) ravers...  'cept fer myself =*)
-=~*LaUrE@*~=-

That's odd, I know lots of Filipino people who go to raves.  It's a music
thing, if it's good I figure anyone of any race will go party.  Incidentally,
Filipinos got the name "Flip" because of a coin game they would play by seeing
who got closest to a wall by flipping said coin.  

It was a rather derogatory term used in the past.  Kinda like calling all
African-Americans (black people, whatever you prefer, help me on the PC thing
here anyone) "nigga."  Might be alright for someone of the same race to use the
terms above but it is generally viewed, rather it is my opinion that a person
of another race would be looked upon with contempt when using these terms.

BTW, yeah, I was born there and am a nationalist still.  Call me "pinoy"
anytime you want instead.  

This message has been brought to you by my collective guilt perpetuated by
years of militant Roman Catholic upbringing.  And also by the ringing in my
ears of my parents asking me, "Are you only concerned with yourself?  What will
you do for your countrymen and fellow humans?"

Fack!  I tell ya it's getting harder on these family visits.  If it wasn't for
the funk keepin' my perpetual groove on, I'd be straight jacket bound.  

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com

"This music is great, what are you on?"

"Music is the drug!"

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 19:51:50 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:51:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
Reply-To: Michael H Guddal <guddal@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: Ravermail <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  Davis Tribe -- Aysha you raver babe <amtaff@ucdavis.edu>,
  Break Dancer <breaker2000@hotmail.com>, James B <jimmy@mail.solisys.com>,
  Kelly <Kmmccaughey@ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Davis Gathering tonight
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Tonight there will be another gathering.  4 Djs (Ken, Dr. W,
Jason, and Brian) and who knows who else will show.  It will be at a house
between Oeste and Anderson on 8th street.  I don't know the exact address
but it is Alex Chow's house if you know him.  Maybe the best desciption is
on the south side of the street it is the first house from the corner of
Oeste but not on the corner.  Come by and say hi if you are in town.

Razor


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:13:25 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Forgive me for being so skeptical but as you know i am 
a foolish fish. I hope you are correct but i am wondering if there
is any way to check this out. I find it difficult to believe the 
government would allow this to happen because it means a tremendous
loss of money to various people in power.
If anyone finds out any more on this please post it.
Also just as a side note there is a solar eclipse on march 13
at 4:20. Also happens to be my birthday. Can you imagine a bunch
of stoners sitting around unaware that an eclipse is about
to hapepen ,celebrating 4:20 and watching the sun go dark?
I know most of you dont believe in astrology but the long
awaited age of aquarius is about to begin. Some of the same
things are happening now in the sky that were happening when we put 
and end to slavery. I wont go into detail but it is a time of 
liberation. 

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

steve wrote:
> 
> In case you thought this was a hoax (as I feared, considering it came
> from the office of Mike Kennedy: Ski Victim), the NORML site talks
> about it, also!
> 
> http://www.norml.org/news/fax/98/98-01-15.shtml
> 
> Proposed: special celebration today at 4:20. . .
> 
> Cheers,
> Steve.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:14:06 1998
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To: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
CC: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>,
  "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Courtesy & Respect/Smoking
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Starchild wrote:
> 
>        Respect is usually demanded, while courtesy is politely requested.

I don't think so. Respect is usually given. We all want it but don't
always
get it. People who "demand" respect usually don't get it or deserve it.

> Respect implies a certain quality of admiration, which is why some people
> like to say that "respect must be earned."  It is perhaps too much to

Admiration? I don't think so. But yes, it must be earned.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:21:14 1998
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Can do, but i'd be really intrested if you wanted to play with 
web-objects. I know C/C++ JAVA blah blah blah blah

<blkadder@value.net> wrote on Wednesday January 14, 1998 at  1:07pm:
>
>I am looking for a PERL (maybe a little C) programmer for a 3 month
>contract. And sorry, I do need someone to warm a chair in the
>office(Moraga.)
>
>If you might be interested, or know of anyone that might, please drop me a
>message.
>
>Thanks.
>


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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:28:02 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:19:48 -0800
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Reply-to: "Bbong" <Bbong@goplay.com>
From: "Bbong" <Bbong@goplay.com>
To: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>,
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Try running Rhpasody with the latest Blue Box on a G3/266. No one else in the world has that type of back side cache. 

The power to crush the other kids.
-- Billabong


Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com> wrote on Wednesday January 14, 1998 at  2:41pm:
>Hmmmm, my machine is soooo badass that:
>
>1) I'm running unix based rhapsody on my mac partitioned hardrive that is
>running virtual PC with Windows NT 4.0 within the Mac based blue box while
>serving several servers through native TCP/IP ports as well as open transport 1.3.
>
>My sh*t is so *on* that I back up my machine *with* my machine.
>
>;)
>
>rob.
>http://www.citizenmag.com
>
>p.s I can cut and paste anything anywhere. my skillz are supreme.
>
>Layne Loomis wrote:
>> 
>> My back up sever is J90 all Cray baaaby howz that?
>> 
>> LL
>> 
>> ---Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Oh step off, boyz.
>> >
>> > I got an Origin SGI baby. Over a gig of ram for my
>> desktop.
>> >
>> > In fact, the origin is sooo big, it *is* my Desk.
>> >
>> > I render 3D at will.
>> >
>> > ;)
>> >
>> > rob.
>> > 7500/120 bound but awaitin' my G3 Mac.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Layne Loomis wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Sorry boys I got ya' both beat how bout' an Octane
>> > > SGI style R10K  hehe  the mine is bigger than yours
>> > > theory truly applies here.
>> > >
>> > > LL
>> > >
>> > > ---Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > In a message dated 1/14/98 6:58:53 AM,
>> > > deepfog@hooked.net wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >nothing.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >i just wanted to write something with a cool
>> > > subject.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >you macheads should know what im talkin about.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >;]
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > i DO know exactly what your are talkin
>> > > about...being a machead as well.  I'm
>> > > > running one o those right now baaaaby  :)   at
>> > > 225MhZ  ;)
>> > > >
>> >
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________
>> DO YOU YAHOO!?
>> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:32:19 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:27:32 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: Courtesy & Respect/Smoking
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At 08:17 AM 1/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>       Respect is usually demanded, while courtesy is politely requested.
>Respect implies a certain quality of admiration, which is why some people
>like to say that "respect must be earned."  It is perhaps too much to
>expect everyone to "respect" you at a party; but it is not too much to ask
>that they be courteous.
****
although every person deserves some respect just for being human.  if you
give everyone you meet that respect, and either build or subtract [if they
are inhuman in their actions or beliefs] from that...  it's difficult to go
wrong.

just that much respect will remind you that courtesy is something that
*should* be spread, regardless.  everybody deserves a bit of respect for
being who they are.

peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:32:29 1998
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Subject: --->>   Planet Rock Dj Schedules
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 12:33:40 -0000
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From: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
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>Does anyone have a list of who's spinning at what times?? Can't get lost in
>all that jungle and miss some other good sets.  Also.. are we having a 
>meeting
>spot?? Or are you all just gonna look for my laser gun??
>
>       hugs n'stuff,
>          'trice the tekno diva
>
>   "^v^v^v^v^I get goose bumps when the bass thumps...^v^v^v^v^"
>

Well the last schedule they notified me with is up on the
web site =    209.12.212.247

They may have changed it a little since this...but it's better than 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:35:16 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:34:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: raves and politics
To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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M,
I'm in agreement with most of what you're saying - except this part:

---"Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
> 	The rave scene most definitely is involved with politics...we're
> on every governmental hit list, and pulling an ostrich is certainly
not
> gonna make it go away.

I think this is a common notion in the raving community (the MAN wants
to stop the RAVES!), but is it actually true?  If SFPD really wanted
to, I would guess that they could bust half the large UG parties
(100+) in San Francisco every night.  It's not really _that_ hard to
find them.  And even if SFPD just put a squad car and a couple beat
cops in front of a party without busting it, it would probably  scare
off so enough people to make sure the promoters lose $$.

IMO, there's no real reason for the establishment to be worried about
most rave-ish parties.  So what if a bunch of kids stay out all night
smoking weed and dancing on E without an assembly permit?  They
probably won't be doing property crimes or violent assaults, they
won't be filing lawsuits against the city over getting injured at some
UG party.  Nobody important (meaning rich) gets hurt, and it distracts
all the young minds from the _real_ problems of the society we live
in.  Sounds like a win for the establishment to me.  Unless of course
we learn something from the parties we go to ... but that's another
question.

Anyway, what do other people think about this?
Matt.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:36:08 1998
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Subject: Re: ***  Planet Rock - In Touch WWW ***
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 12:37:07 -0000
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From: * mercury * <ravergirl@liquidmercury.com>
To: "Wayne" <wayne@club.net>, "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Once again...the OFFICIAL name and URL  in_touch.com is not
completely registered!!!  It is still just an FTP/IP address #

209.12.212.247

type that in and hit return






>"_" is not a valid character in a domain name.
>
>Barring that, www.in-touch.com doesn't look like a bunch of cracked out
>rave kids to me.
>
>Whois: in-touch.com
>In Touch (IN-TOUCH-DOM)
>   96 Withington Rd.
>   Newton, MA 02160
>
>   Domain Name: IN-TOUCH.COM
>
>   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
>      Hochman, Ira  (IH8)  ira@IN-TOUCH.COM
>      (617) 332-1704
>
>   Record last updated on 08-Dec-94.
>   Record created on 08-Dec-94.
>   Database last updated on 15-Jan-98 04:43:25 EDT.
>
>   Domain servers in listed order:
>
>   ZORK.TIAC.NET199.0.65.2
>   SUNDOG.TIAC.NET199.0.65.9
>
>
>The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
>(Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).
>Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.
>
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:36:23 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:36:11 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: "Eric P. Peterson" <basslion@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: 604E
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Well, with all these proud descriptions of phat systems,
do we all understand the double entendre of the title
of this thread? I suspect some people are thinking strictly
in terms of CPUs...but I love the trance reference!
Peace,
Eric

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2129/



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 20:50:54 1998
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To: * mercury * <ravergirl@liquidmercury.com>,
  "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: Wayne <wayne@club.net>
Subject: Re: ***  Planet Rock - In Touch WWW ***
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At 4:37 AM -0800 1/16/98, * mercury * wrote:
>Once again...the OFFICIAL name and URL  in_touch.com is not
>completely registered!!!  It is still just an FTP/IP address #
>
>209.12.212.247
>
>type that in and hit return

Nor will it be registered. Again, "_" is not valid in a domain name.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:00:34 1998
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In-Reply-To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
        "Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))" (Jan 16, 10:31am)
References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com> 
	"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14   4:57pm) <Pine.GSO.3.96.980114165118.16938A-100000@shell> 
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Cc: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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I haven't yet met a promoter who wasn't in it primarily for the money.
It's true, it's a pretty difficult task and the money has to be there
to make it worthwhile.  But Vlad, your argument boils down to, "What
we lose on selling by the unit we make up by selling in volume."
Nonsense.  Any promoter who loses money won't stay in the game for 
long (some get around this by specializing in finding suckers--, er,
"investors" one after the other).  

The only real question is whether money is the *only* motivator.  I've
met a few promoters who really did have more motivation than that.
Bill Graham, at least in his early years, had a wider view of things.
Many promoters start with an uplifting view of their role, but either
drop out or start focusing on the money.  Believe me, I've seen this
happen over and over in all different kinds of musical scenes.  

I also disagree on another point.  Promoters are not, by definition,
necessary.  They are only needed to expand event sizes to commercial
scales.  I have never been in favor of expanding *this* scene to a
commercial scale although, in many respects, that's inevitable.
I don't mind some commercial events as long as the balance doesn't
tip too far in that direction which has been the case (San Francisco
somewhat excepted) for several years now. My POV on this is influenced
by living in Portland and seeing how things are working on the west
coast and elsewhere.  

Promoting in this scene is a smalltime hustle.  Hardly anyone goes about
it professionally, with the exception of Spundae.  I always felt the self-
promoted events (even including Wicked) were basically the best in the
scene over time, though it's true I missed out on the great Toon Towns
of the past.  Overall, promotion has turned the scene into something 
I don't like very much, although I'm still devoted to the music and the
DIY approach.  Again, I'm not denying there was a certain inevitability
to all this.  "Raving" turned into a 6-month rite of passage for teenagers,
with "promoters" collecting the $20 tolls as they passed through along
the way to other things.  There are many who stick with it far longer
than that, of course, but if you look at the overall numbers that is
what it adds up to.

We now have a scene with no ambition or vision.  I bow to the inevitability
once again.  Perhaps we can learn some lessons from all this for the next
cycle, whenever it comes around.  In the meantime, my motto for some time
has been, "it's time to go underground to our own underground."  And in
the words of the Submariner, "we will never surface."

phred

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To: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Buyer's Clubs / Challenge to Health & Human Services
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:06:00 -0700
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here are three media clipping from the (National Organization to Repeal
Marijuana Laws) NORML folks

the last one is quite revolutionary

sister kitty

p.s. not to get a whole new thread going but the government can make
more on taxes if pot is legalized or even just taxed



internet http://www.norml.org
          . . . a weekly service for the media on news items related to
marijuana prohibition.

                                 January 15, 1998

                        U.S. Files Civil Suits To Shut Down California
Cannabis Buyers' Clubs

        January 15, 1998, Washington, D.C.:   Department of Justice
attorneys filed six civil lawsuits to
shut down several of California's largest medical marijuana clubs.  The
lawsuits, announced by Northern
California U.S. Attorney Michael Yamaguchi this past Friday, target the
San Francisco Cannabis Cultivators'
Club, the Oakland Cannabis Buyers' Club, San Francisco Flower Therapy,
the Marin Alliance for Medical
Marijuana, the Santa Cruz Cannabis Buyers' Club, and the Ukiah Cannabis
Buyers' Club.
        "California's medical marijuana statute ... has no effect on the
applicability of federal drug laws,"
Yamaguchi said.   "The issue is not the medical use of marijuana; it is
the persistent violation of federal law."
        California NORML Coordinator Dale Gieringer denounced the U.S.
government's action and proclaimed
that the organization will do everything possible to support legal
efforts to keep the clubs open.  In addition,
an emergency legal defense fund to help support medical marijuana
patients, caregivers, and dispensaries
against federal litigation has been established at The NORML Foundation.
        "These federal lawsuits presents the greatest peril to medical
marijuana patients [in recent memory,]
Gieringer said.   "These six clubs serve over 10,000 patients.  To close
them down now would be an
intolerable public health and safety disaster."
        Gieringer said that the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the U.S.
Constitution limit federal powers and
protect Californians' right to medical marijuana under Proposition 215.
"The federal government is trying to
turn the Constitution on its head," he argued.  "Nowhere does the
Constitution give the federal government
power to tell the states what kind of medicine their citizens may use."
        The clubs have 20 days to reply to the government's lawsuits in
court.  Should the court grants the
injunctions, the clubs will risk federal criminal charges if they
continue to operate.
        NORML Executive Director R. Keith Stroup, Esq. said that
cannabis buyers' clubs serve a vital role in
the lives of many seriously ill Californians and called efforts to shut
them down unconscionable.
        "Cannabis buyers' clubs remain the only viable source of medical
marijuana in California short of home
cultivation or purchasing marijuana on the street," Stroup said.  "To
close these clubs would force thousands
of seriously ill patients to suffer needlessly and force many patients
to enter the black market or go without
the medicine they need to survive."
        For more information, please contact either Tanya Kangas, Esq.
of The NORML Foundation @ (202)
483-8751 or Dale Gieringer of California NORML @ (415) 563-5858.  Those
wishing to contribute to the
Medical Marijuana Patients' and Caregivers' Fund may send donations to
The NORML Foundation.
=-=-=-=-=-
      State Senator Calls For Summit On "Responsible Medical Marijuana
Distribution"

        January 15, 1998, Sacramento, CA:   State Sen. John Vasconcellos
(D-Santa Clara) denounced
federal efforts to shut down California's medical marijuana clubs, and
called on state and federal officials to
attend an upcoming Public Safety Committee summit on the "safe,
responsible distribution of medical
marijuana."
        "I'm appalled," Vasconcellos announced at a January 12 press
conference.  "[I'm] dismayed our state
and federal governments have acted so arrogantly in the face of
California voters' decisive support of
Proposition 215.  I'm particularly angry that a president who won this
state by a smaller margin than voters
who approved Proposition 215 has the temerity to send his federal law
enforcement into our state to undo
the decision of our citizens."
        Vasconcellos -- who introduced unsuccessful legislation in 1997
to establish a Medical Marijuana
Research Center at a campus of the University of California -- announced
a six-point program to uphold the
spirit of Proposition 215.  In the first piece of the program,
Vasconcellos is inviting Gov. Pete Wilson,
California Attorney General Dan Lungren, and U.S. Attorney General Janet
Reno to join the Public Safety
Committee in convening a statewide summit on medical marijuana
distribution.
        "While local governments and law enforcement from Arcata to Los
Angeles have spent the last year
working with providers of medical marijuana to ensure responsible,
compassionate implementation of 215,
the state and federal governments have shown no leadership on the
essential if complicated issue of
distribution," he said.  "We who are policy makers and purport to be
leaders have an obligation to swiftly,
smartly effectuate the will of the voters."
        Vasconcellos also promised renewed efforts to move legislation
facilitating medical marijuana research
and distribution through the state Assembly.  In addition, he promised
to circulate a letter to
President Clinton urging him to reverse the U.S. Department of Justice's
position against California cannabis
buyers' clubs.
        For more information, please contact either Dale Gieringer of
California NORML or Rand Martin of Sen.
John Vasconcellos' office @ (916) 445-9740.
=-=-=-=-=-
            HHS To Conduct Binding Review Of Marijuana's Prohibitive
Status

        January 15, 1998, Washington, D.C.:   The Drug Enforcement
Administration (DEA) recently
determined that sufficient grounds exist to justify proceedings
re-evaluating marijuana's prohibitive Schedule
I status.  As a result, the agency has formally requested the Department
of Health and Human Services
(HHS) to conduct "a scientific and medical evaluation of the available
data and provide a scheduling
recommendation" for marijuana and other cannabinoid drugs.
        The DEA's action is in response to an administrative petition
filed by former NORML National Director
Jon Gettman and Trans High Corporation -- publisher of High Times
Magazine  -- on July 10, 1995.  The
petition argues that marijuana and cannabinoid drugs lack the "high
potential for abuse" required for
Schedule I and Schedule II drugs under the provisions of the Controlled
Substances Act (CSA).  Gettman
notes that the DEA has never before voluntarily referred a marijuana
petition to HHS for binding review.
        "People are sent to jail every day because of mistaken
assumptions about the abuse potential of
marijuana," Gettman said.   "[This] petition observes that HHS has never
produced a finding that marijuana
actually has the high potential for abuse similar to heroin or cocaine
required for Schedule I or Schedule II
status.  Furthermore, the legislative history of the CSA indicates that
Congress only intended for marijuana
to remain in Schedule I or Schedule II if such a finding could be
produced.  This petition challenges the
government to produce such a finding or be legally required to end
marijuana prohibition by removing
marijuana from Schedule I."
        Gettman initially asked the Department of Justice in 1994 to
request this evaluation from HHS.  At that
time, DEA Administrator Thomas Constantine argued that the agency was
"unaware of any new scientific
studies of marijuana that would lead [it] to re-evaluate [marijuana's]
classification at this time."  Constantine
then challenged Gettman to provide documentation indicating that new
research had taken place.  Gettman
responded by filing his 1995 petition.
        "The recent referral of the petition to HHS is an acknowledgment
by DEA of deficiencies in their
familiarity with scientific studies of marijuana, and of the validity of
[my] argument and its documented
scientific basis," Gettman said.
        Petitioners are represented by Michael Kennedy, Esq. of New York
City, a member of the NORML
Legal Committee.
        For more information, please contact either the law offices of
Michael Kennedy @ (212) 935-4500 or
Allen St. Pierre of The NORML Foundation @ (202) 483-8751.

MORE THAN 11 MILLION MARIJUANA ARRESTS SINCE 1965 . . . ANOTHER EVERY 49
SECONDS!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:05:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:08:32 -0800
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: NRR: your mama is so fat...
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i thought that these were hilarious!  just had to share!

(sorry if you've seen these before!)


The classics...


---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

YOUR MAMA IS SO FAT:

      When she hauls ass she has to make two trips. 

      When she dances she makes the band skip.

<paraindent><param>out</param>      When she was diagnosed with the flesh
eating disease the doctor 

             gave her 13 years to live.

</paraindent>      She puts mayonnaise on aspirin.

      Her cereal bowl came with a lifeguard.

      When she goes to the zoo the elephants throw her peanuts.

      Her high school graduation picture was an aerial photograph. 

      Her driver's license says "Picture continued on other side." 

      She has to iron her pants on the driveway.

      The back of her neck looks like a pack of hot dogs.

      Yo mama's so fat, all the restaurants in town have signs that 

 	say: "Maximum Occupancy: 240 Patrons OR Yo Mama"

      Yo mama's so fat, when she ran away, they had to use all four 

 	sides of the milk carton.

      Yo mama's so fat, instead of Levis 501 jeans, she wears Levi's 

 	1002's.

      Yo mama's so fat, when she gets in an elevator, it HAS to go 

 	down.

      Yo mama's so fat, she was born with a silver shovel in her mouth. 

      Yo mama's so fat, she's got smaller fat women orbiting around

 	her.

      Yo mama's so fat, she could sell shade.

      Yo mama's so fat, when she crosses the street, cars look out for 

	her.

      Yo mama's so fat, people jog around her for exercise. 

      Yo mama's so fat, I ran around her twice and got lost. 

      Yo mama's so fat, she gets runs in her jeans.

      Yo mama's so fat, her blood type is Ragu.

      Yo mama's so fat, when she goes to a restaurant, she doesn't get 

 	a menu, she gets an estimate.

      Yo mama's so fat, if she got her shoes shined, she'd have to take 

 	his word for it!

      Yo mama's so fat, she has to put her belt on with a boomerang. 

      Yo mama's so fat, she can't even jump to a conclusion.

      Yo mama's so fat, she broke her leg and gravy dripped out. 

      Yo mama's so fat, she went to the movies and sat next to 

 	everyone.


<<3,

megan





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:11:40 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Subject: Re: raves and politics was:Re: Raver Parade
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Minh Q. Le wrote:

> 
>  and due to the nature of the scene breaking the law and doing
> illegal things while on drugs is what raving is all about.  


Really? I know you speak for a lot who come to raves but
some go for other reasons, dont they? What ever happened
to community or all this talk about conciousness raising?
Im curious about why sfravers go to raves. Its been made very clear
that the spiritual or community reasons are not the motivation
as has been quite strongly stated and demonstrated here, so 
what is the motivation? Just to get wasted and feel good?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:16:07 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:14:27 -0800
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To: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org, goa@party.net
Subject: Re: DRUGS - DEA finds sufficient grounds to reschedule marijuana (fwd)
References: <199801161714.JAA11209@atari.saturn5.com>
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It's about time!! When will they Re-Schedule MDMA,MDEA,& MBDB, as
prescription drugs for very mildly depressed people. When will it
happen?? Someone please tell me??
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Troy Sheets wrote:
> 
> A Press Release from the Law Offices of Michael Kennedy
> 
> For Immediate Release
> 
> DEA FINALLY CONFIRMS THE EXISTENCE OF SUFFICIENT GROUNDS TO REMOVE
> MARIJUANA FROM HARD DRUGS SCHEDULE OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES
> 
> DEA REFERS MARIJUANA RESCHEDULING PETITION TO HHS
> 
> Introduction
> 
> Recent scientific evidence has forced the US Government through its
> Justice Department agency, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), to
> commence legally binding procedures that will likely result in the end of
> marijuana prohibition.
> 
> On December 19th, DEA formally asked the Department of Health and Human
> Services to conduct "a scientific and medical evaluation of the available
> data and provide a scheduling recommendation" for marijuana and other
> cannabinoid drugs.  This DEA request of HHS means that the DEA has for the
> first time made its own determination that sufficient grounds exist to
> remove marijuana from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act (CSA).
> Schedule I is supposed to be limited to hard drugs with addictive
> propensities and with no legitimate medical usage.
> 
> The DEA request was made in response to an administrative petition filed
> July 10, 1995 by Petitioners Jon Gettman and Trans High Corporation,
> publisher of High Times Magazine.
> 
> The Petition presents evidence and argument that marijuana and
> cannabinoids lack the "high potential for abuse" required for Schedule I
> and Schedule II drugs under the (CSA).
> 
> Trans-High Corporation, the publishers of High Times, joined with Mr.
> Gettman in mid-1995 to provide support for the petition during the
> administrative rule-making process.  Petitioners are represented by the
> Law Offices of Michael Kennedy, which today released a copy of a letter
> >from DEA notifying petitioners of the HHS referral.
> 
> Petitioners are represented by the Law Offices of Michael Kennedy in New
> York City, which today released a copy of the letter from DEA notifying
> Petitioners of the HHS referral.
> 
> Background.
> 
> According to a July 27, 1995, letter from DEA Deputy Administrator Stephen
> Greene, accepting the Petition for filing:
> 
> "The DEA shall determine within a reasonable period of time whether there
> are sufficient grounds to justify removing marijuana . . . from Schedule I
> . . .(S)hould DEA determine that there are sufficient grounds, then it
> must request a medical and scientific recommendation from the Secretary of
> the Department of Health and Human Services."
> 
> Thus DEA can request the advice of HHS only after DEA's investigation
> confirms that sufficient grounds exist to remove marijuana from Schedule
> I.  According to the CSA the findings and recommendations of HHS with
> regard to scientific and medical matters are binding on DEA.  DEA has
> never before voluntarily referred a marijuana rescheduling petition to HHS
> for binding review.
> 
> The Gettman/High times Petition demonstrates that HHS has never produced a
> finding that marijuana actually has the high potential for abuse similar
> to heroin or cocaine.  A high potential for abuse is required for Schedule
> I treatment. Further, the legislative history of the CSA indicates that
> Congress only intended for marijuana to remain in Schedule I or II if such
> a finding could be produced.  This Petition challenges the government to
> produce such a finding (where none exists) or be legally required to end
> marijuana prohibition by removing marijuana from Schedule I.
> 
> Removal of marijuana from Schedule I will require the federal government
> to sanction legal distribution of marijuana for medical uses, research and
> prescriptions and adopt a regulatory rather than a prohibitory model for
> marijuana.  The end of prohibition and the advent of regulation will
> represent a radical change in the legal status of marijuana in the United
> States.
> 
> The Petition argues that the discovery of the Cannabinoid Receptor System,
> which has enabled scientists to explain the cause of marijuana's
> characteristic effects, and provides a basis for making detailed
> distinctions among the biological effects of marijuana and other drugs.
> These distinctions provide the scientific basis for demonstrating that
> marijuana does not have the same high potential for abuse as other
> Schedule I or II drugs.
> 
> DEA reversal of position.
> 
> The DEA to HHS referral represents a historic turn-around for DEA..
> 
> Gettman first asked DEA to refer marijuana to HHS for the appropriate
> scientific and medical evaluation back in October of 1994.  In March 1995,
> in a letter to Gettman's congressman,  DEA claimed that "unless a
> substance has an accepted medical use in the United States, in can only be
> placed in Schedule I."  By letter dated April 21, 1995, DEA Administrator
> Thomas Constantine stated that DEA was:
> 
> "unaware of any new scientific studies of marijuana that would lead us to
> re-evaluate its classification at this time . . . If Mr. Gettman has
> access to scientific data concerning marijuana which he wishes to bring to
> our attention, we will be pleased to consider it, should he care to share
> the documentation with us."
> 
> The Gettman/High Times Petition provided the specific scientific
> documentation that caused the DEA to reverse itself and to acknowledge for
> the first time ever that a sufficient scientific basis exists for
> reclassification of marijuana out of Schedule I
> 
> Petitioners.
> 
> Jon Gettman served as National Director of the National Organization for
> the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) from 1986 to 1989, and has provided
> articles and columns for High Times since 1985.   Gettman is currently
> working on his doctorate in public policy and regional economic
> development at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia.
> 
> Mr. Gettman issued the following statement:
> 
> "People are sent to jail every day because of mistaken assumptions about
> the abuse potential of marijuana, assumptions that have never been
> scientifically proved.  DEA's recognition of this is a welcome and
> important step, and in many respects recognition of the importance of the
> scientific work of individuals such as Allyn Howlett, William Devane,
> Miles Herkenham, Leo Hollister, Denise Kandel, Norman Zinberg, Lester
> Grinspoon and other scientists on whose work my petition rests.  But this
> is also recognition that in many respects marijuana prohibition has been a
> cruel hoax on the American people.  People think marijuana is in Schedule
> I for scientific reasons, and that these reasons legitimize prohibition,
> arrests and prison terms.   DEA has just acknowledged that there is a lot
> of scientific knowledge they haven't considered when they justify
> marijuana's Schedule I status.  In other words, DEA has presented a
> distorted picture of marijuana to government officials and to the public.
> I hope our petition will contribute to resolving some of the confusion
> created by these distortions."
> 
> High Times Magazine, by its Editor in Chief, Peter Gorman, issued the
> following statement:
> 
> "High Times is thrilled that the DEA has acknowledged that there was never
> sufficient reason to place cannabis in Schedule I of the CSA, and proud
> that the petition originated with Jon Gettman's two part series on
> "Marijuana and the Brain" which appeared in our pages in March and July
> 1995.  We hope that journalists from all media who have covered the War on
> Drugs will recognize the importance of the DEA's admission regarding the
> scheduling of cannabis -- which could potentially result in the end of
> prohibition of this benign and medically helpful herb -- and will report
> it with the same vigor with which they have reported other DEA findings.
> High Times looks forward to the results of the Department of Health and
> human Services' investigation of the scientific and medical data regarding
> cannabis with great anticipation."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> tsheets@saturn5.com                        <- You have found me
> tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com                  <- Official Use Only
> http://www.saturn5.com/tsheets/            <- Instant Content
> troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com               <- Inquire Within

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:23:22 1998
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From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: DEA finds sufficient grounds to reschedule marijuana
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At 12:16 PM 1/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>government would allow this to happen because it means a tremendous
>loss of money to various people in power.
****
although, if legalized, the goverment would most likely regulate and tax it.

>Also just as a side note there is a solar eclipse on march 13
>at 4:20. Also happens to be my birthday. Can you imagine a bunch
****
that is sooo cool.

>awaited age of aquarius is about to begin. Some of the same
>things are happening now in the sky that were happening when we put 
>and end to slavery. I wont go into detail but it is a time of 
>liberation. 
****
glad to be aquarian.

jan28=quarter century
peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:29:29 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com>
CC: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Planet Crock/Crack Rock!
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Excuse me but i think that we all covered that last year. Ghetto
Children was not a post started by me, if you read the SFraves Archives
and i helped define the term as not having anythig to do with anyone's
race. I will say it again.
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE

And i am not 14 years old Tweaker Man. And the ghetto children post did
not have to do with planet rock it had to do with a Planet New Year by
COOL WORLD productions. Totaly differnet rave. Totally differnet
production.  

And i am not promoting for Planet Rock and I am going there and I can
call it the FUNK PHENOMENOM for all i care or i can call it a TECHNO
LOVE FESTIVAL it doesn't matter. It's a rave and i am going wether they
are giving away free crack or not for the first 100 people in the door.
Which they are not. 

Here is the term for GHETTO CHILDREN that was NOT started by me.
GHETTO CHILDREN does = people who look ghetto.
ghetto is a slang term used by african american, caucasian, hispanic,
etc. etc. teenagers. If you don't know what it means than don't worry
about it. 

That is that. Forget about it and don't bring up past shit that isn't
important anywyay. It just creats DRAMA.

Love,
Paul*E*Wog
Peter Sandifer wrote:
> 
> boomerang said:
> >> But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
> >> colored people.
> >> Smoking crack.
> ........................................
> AndyDub said:
> >Well pass me that pipe Peter, cause I got something to say...  [cut, see
> >below for the rest]
> 
> Well shucks, Andy, I hope you didn't miss my point.  (Well, maybe
> not....but your thoughts appeared to be...racing.)    Here's a a little
> Pictionary hint:  one word, two syllables, sounds like flat tire.
> 
> I was intentionally using outdated, caucasian-centric vernacular to make my
> point.   I have a very low tolerance for 14-year old rugrats making racist
> and classist comments about parties where African- Americans are
> performing.   Browse SFRaves Archives for Paul's "Ghetto Children" posts on
> the last Planet Rock, which featured Afrikaa Bambaataa and Grandmaster
> Flash.
> 
> It's sad that folks like Flash and Bambaataa were turntable/underground
> party pioneers,
> and when they show up at Our parties, we act as if they're invading Our
> scene, bringing their crack cocaine from the ghettos.  Having this default
> stereotype (nonwhite = ghettoes and crack cocaine) is a fucked up, back
> asswards mentality.  An embarrassment to rave.
> 
> It's all fine and good if Paul is friends of the folks who are throwing the
> party,  though I would question what sort of person promotes his friends'
> parties with implications of crack cocaine and crocks of shit.
> 
> b))merang
> 
> ............................................................
> >Well pass me that pipe Peter, cause I got something to say... peel slowly
> >and see:
> >
> >So far, I've visited Planet Rock's website, where they all but guarantee
> >no gangstas at their parties:
> >
> >"Our message is simple, there is no message"
> >
> >so we're coming together to celebrate... er... nothing (I tend to be
> >partial to those parties promising me a 14 orgasm mayan yellow overtone
> >seed spritual 7th layer headfuck with my inner child's third eye actually,
> >it's a little deeper than 10,000 people getting together after paying
> >money to get in to celebrate... er...  nothing.  I guess if you have
> >nothing to say, don't say "we have nothing to say", just say " ")... and
> >then later...
> >
> >"welcome to the core of the underground, no corporations, no gangstas, no
> >attitude, just 10,000 happy kids sweatin, and jumpin, and cheerin."
> >
> >It probably has a decent chance of being a good party, I've never been to
> >one, and I'll usually try anything once (I'd probably go at the insistence
> >of some great folks I met last weekend, if I wasn't doing stuff down
> >here).
> >
> >I find this *no gangstas* thing funny (not funny ha ha, more like funny
> >something's wrong), because my only exposure to Planet Rock in any way was
> >meeting the promoter, an early-mid twenties caucasian kid who wears baggy
> >pants, a windbreaker with some obscure writing on the back (I'd probably
> >understand if I was down with his crew), short hair and a little bit of an
> >attitude problem (I realize it was probably a bad night for him, but I'm
> >making a point here) weilding a 40oz at a beach party, trying to tell me
> >what to do with my sound system (it wouldn't fit, I honestly don't know
> >what he was thinking).
> >
> >I'm pretty sure all I'd need to do is put the same clothes and attitude on
> >a gentleman of color with a similar physical build and half the people
> >planning on going would take off in the other direction (aieee... gang
> >members... honey, lock the door or they'll take our Blaupunkt and daddy's
> >gas card). So is color the only line between what we consider RAVER and
> >what we consider GANGSTA?  Check yourselves, we've avoided this topic for
> >a while, but I see stuff like this and I gotta ask...
> >
> >Just wanted to point that strange dissonance of statements out.
> >
> >AndyW
> >
> >P.S. Pictionary kicks ass with nice people.  I just hope that none of you
> >ever have the traumatic experience of having to draw "sabotage"  after a
> >session with the Grafix though... it almost killed me (no, it wasn't an
> >All Play, and no, my team didn't end up getting to roll again).  I'm still
> >depressed about it... the other team didn't get words like that...
> 
> .....................
> >> >>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> >> >>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
> >> >>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
> >> >>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
> >> >>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
> >> >>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
> >> >>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
> >> >>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
> >> >>Love,
> >> >>Paul*E*Wog
> .....................
> >> But, Paul, there will undoubtedly be ghetto children there.  You know,
> >> colored people.
> >> Smoking crack.
> >>
> >> b))merang
> .......................
> >> >>Who is gonna go to Crack Rock on Saturday?
> >> >>I am suppose to be going with Victoria. I will be wearing my new furry
> >> >>pants. They are electric Blue with two furry tiger stripes on the side.
> >> >>And they have pockets and 30" bottoms. Ooooo...
> >> >>Don't i make all of you jeleous.
> >> >>See me there. Hopefully I can get Victoria to wear here knew bright ass
> >> >>blue Satin Mondoroma pants with orange trim. Theya re coolio-G funk!!!
> >> >>Anywayz? Who is gonna go to PLANET CROCK/CRACK ROCK??
> >> >>Love,
> >> >>Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:35:00 1998
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From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: why rave?
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---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> Really? I know you speak for a lot who come to raves but
> some go for other reasons, dont they? What ever happened
> to community or all this talk about conciousness raising?
> Im curious about why sfravers go to raves. Its been made very clear
> that the spiritual or community reasons are not the motivation
> as has been quite strongly stated and demonstrated here, so 
> what is the motivation? Just to get wasted and feel good?
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish

I think this is a good question - I'd like to hear other responses!

Here are my reasons:
 - to dance to good music with friends
 - to see friends and relate to them non-verbally
 - to see/hear/experience/do new things

IMO, most parties are too loud, and the attendees often too drugged,
to have enjoyable conversations.  Which means that you have to either
shut up and dance (good) or try relate to communicate with people
without talking (also good.)  There are of course exceptions to this
(like outdoor UG's) which can be wonderful.

I also don't go to raves to get or take drugs.  I'm not getting on a
soapbox, this is mainly a personal decision that I (and my usual party
friends) have made for ourselves.  Aside from the dangers of
questionable sources, we just don't feel the need.

One perspective among many, I'm sure.
Matt.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:36:15 1998
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To: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild), sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: glittergirl@value.net (glittergirl@value.net)
Subject: Re: NRR: Sprite commercials
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I like the idea behind the Sprite commercials, but I lost all my enthusiasm
for them recently.  Sprite also puts on the "Jooky" themed commercials that
make fun of companies that try to get you to buy their product by offering
merchandise if you collect enough labels (or game pieces or Camel cash or
bottle tops -- whatever).  HOWEVER, about an hour later I saw another
Sprite commercial -- in this one Sprite was saying that if you collect
enough Sprite labels you will be able to order all of this cool Sprite
merchandise.  Pretty hypocritic, no?

So, the ad agency that is doing the Sprite ads right now just seems to be
good at manipulating "Gen X" beliefs.  They recognize that a larger
proportion of our generation has become disillusioned with a consumer
culture based around style, image, and attitude.

I hate it when I feel manipulated.

Robin


>Dear Rave Friends,
>
>        Remember "image is nothing, thirst is everything"?  Well I just
>heard a new radio commercial for Sprite yesterday that appears to be part
>of the same campaign.
>
>        This one really caught my attention, because it has the sound of an
>Enigma song with Gregorian chanting.  Voices are intoning stuff like
>"drinking Sprite will make you enlightened,"  "Sprite will help you achieve
>universal harmony," "Sprite is the fountain of eternal youth," etc. (these
>aren't direct quotes, I only heard it once).
>
>        At the end of the commercial, a more normal-sounding voice comes
>on, saying that if you think a beverage is going to make you young and
>perfect you need to get a life, or something to that effect.
>
>        I love ads that fuck with your head like that -- tell all these
>wonderful lies about your product, then disassociate yourself from the
>message.  Anybody know which ad agency comes up with this stuff, and what
>other work they are doing?  It's fascinating to watch a company try to
>build a product image by dumping on the idea of a product having an image.
>Also interesting how some products become images as some images become
>products...
>
>                                   <<< Starchild >>>
>
>
>                      Don't "just do it," think about it first!
>                Don't "just be," be someone positive and interesting!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:43:39 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:43:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>
X-Sender: matt@atari
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: please protect yourself
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hello all-

this a public mailing list, and i really encourage people to moderate what
they say concerning illegal activities such as drug usage.  this list is
archived on the net, and is publicly available to ANYBODY who wants to
search on your name.

this may not seem important now, but employers are already starting to do
web searches on prospective employees.  this means that what you're
talking about now, including drug usage in a party atmosphere, though you
may think it has no bearing on your work habits, is available for any
potential employer.

please moderate what you say, and please respect what activities you
associate with who's name.

i've seen people get screwed this way, and i don't want it to happen with
you...

matt =)

matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists / matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too much /  
                _______
               /       \
              /  o   o  \
              |    ^    |
              |         |
     ___      \   \_/   /       ___
  __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
 (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
(_______  ____________________  _______)
 (______ /                    \ ______)
  (_____/                      \_____)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:47:56 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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The New Dance is called:
The Planet Crack Rock Crock.
Who knows how to do it? Strut your stuff at the Home Base Club Sat.
Night!
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:48:37 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:48:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Curious George <gchan@best.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Greetings from Tahoe (NRR)
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Hey everybody!  I've been away for a couple of months getting settled, but
now I'm back online at the community college.  All is good in south lake
tahoe.   I can't tell you how much I miss raving and dancing into the wee
hours.  But then again, I'm riding everyday... :)  

The dance/rave scene is limited compared to sf.  But there's
Tahoe City's Elevation tonight and guess who's spinnin'...  Mars and
MystrE !  I need that dancin' fix, just like I need my ridin' fix, and all
those other endorphin producing activities ;)  

Hugs to all my dancin' aquaintances in the south bay, davis, and sf.  I
miss you all.  If any of you's would like a place to crash in slt after a
day of riding, my home is your home.  I'm lookin forward to the ever
enlightening, trash-talkin', huggin and a kissin threads prevalent to
sfraves.

Wow Pow Pow,
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
G e o r g e



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 21:54:02 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:58:29 -0500
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So alas, Sunday sees me off to San Fran.  Don't really anticipating 
subscribing from our client's office.

So just look for me lying on a floor somewhere.  I kind of look like 
this:

http://www.silly.com/~tang/freshkru/freshness.jpg

but usually a lot less sober.  If you see me, kick me and wake me up. 
Send me home, I have like a fulltime job, and shouldn't be sending 
so much time out.  Sheez!


freshie
Paranoia:  The choice of a Tech Generation
http://silly.com/~tang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 22:02:07 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:01:34 -0800 (PST)
From: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>
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To: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>
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Yep, that's right!  Check out this amusing article:

http://cnn.com/TECH/9801/15/internet.firing.ap/index.html

Take care
David

P.S. Hi Matt! Good to see ya again!

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Matthew D. P. K. Lanier wrote:

> hello all-
> 
> this a public mailing list, and i really encourage people to moderate what
> they say concerning illegal activities such as drug usage.  this list is
> archived on the net, and is publicly available to ANYBODY who wants to
> search on your name.
> 
> this may not seem important now, but employers are already starting to do
> web searches on prospective employees.  this means that what you're
> talking about now, including drug usage in a party atmosphere, though you
> may think it has no bearing on your work habits, is available for any
> potential employer.
> 
> please moderate what you say, and please respect what activities you
> associate with who's name.
> 
> i've seen people get screwed this way, and i don't want it to happen with
> you...
> 
> matt =)
> 
> matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists / matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too much /  
>                 _______
>                /       \
>               /  o   o  \
>               |    ^    |
>               |         |
>      ___      \   \_/   /       ___
>   __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
>  (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
> (_______  ____________________  _______)
>  (______ /                    \ ______)
>   (_____/                      \_____)
> 
> 
> 
> 


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=2D-- Forwarded mail ---
From: CoRnKnutZ <CoRnKnutZ@aol.com>
Date: Thursday January 15, 1998 at  3:50am

In a message dated 98-01-14 20:28:34 EST, you write:

<< =

             FUCK YOU
      Perhaps one of the most interesting and colorful words in the Engl=
ish
 language today is the word "fuck". It is the one magical word which, ju=
st by
its sound, can describe pain, pleasure, love, and hate. In language, "fu=
ck"
falls into many grammatical categories. =

 It can be used as a verb, both transitive (John fucked Mary) and intran=
sitive
(Mary was fucked by John). =

 It can be an action verb (John really gives a fuck), a passive verb (Ma=
ry
really doesn't give a fuck), an adverb (Mary is fucking interested in Jo=
hn),
or
 as a noun (Mary is a terrific fuck). =

 It can also be used as an adjective (Mary is fucking beautiful) or an
interjection (Fuck! I'm late for my date with Mary).
 It can even be used as a conjunction (Mary is easy, fuck she's also stu=
pid).
 =

 As you can see, there are very few words with the overall versatility o=
f the
word   "fuck".
    =

 Aside from its sexual connotations, this incredible word can be used to=

 describe many situations:
 =

 1. Greetings           "How the fuck are ya?"
 2. Fraud               "I got fucked by the car dealer."
 3. Resignation         "Oh, fuck it!"
 4. Trouble             "I guess I'm fucked now."
 5. Aggression          "FUCK YOU!"
 6. Disgust             "Fuck me."
 7. Confusion           "What the fuck.......?"
 8. Difficulty          "I don't understand this fucking business!"
 9. Despair             "Fucked again..."
 10. Pleasure           "I fucking couldn't be happier."
 11. Displeasure        "What the fuck is going on here?"
 12. Lost               "Where the fuck are we."
 13. Disbelief         "UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE!"
 14. Retaliation       "Up your fucking ass!"
 15. Denial            "I didn't fucking do it."
 16. Perplexity        "I know fuck all about it."
 17. Apathy            "Who really gives a fuck, anyhow?
 18. Greetings         "How the fuck are ya?"
 19. Suspicion         "Who the fuck are you?"
 20. Panic             "Let's get the fuck out of here."
 21. Directions        "Fuck off."
 22. Disbelief         "How the fuck did you do that?"
 =

 It can be used in an anatomical description- "He's a fucking asshole."
 It can be used to tell time- "It's five fucking thirty."
 It can be used in business- "How did I wind up with this fucking job?"
 It can be maternal- "Motherfucker."
 It can be political- "Fuck Dan Quayle!"
 =

 It has also been used by many notable people throughout history:
 =

     "What the fuck was that?"
                                          Mayor of Hiroshima
      "Where did all these fucking Indians come from?"
                                         General Custer
      "Where the fuck is all this water coming from?"
                                          Captain of the Titanic
      "That's not a real fucking gun."
                                          John Lennon
      "Who's gonna fucking find out?"
                                         Richard Nixon
    "Heads are going to fucking roll."
                                         Anne Boleyn
     "Let the fucking woman drive."
                                        Commander of Space Shuttle
     "What fucking map?"
                                         "Challenger," Mark Thatcher
      "Any fucking idiot could understand that."
                                          Albert Einstein
     "It does so fucking look like her!"
                                         Picasso
     "How the fuck did you work that out?"
                                         Pythagoras
     "You want what on the fucking ceiling?"
                                          Michaelangelo
     "Fuck a duck."
                                          Walt Disney
      "Why?- Because its fucking there!"
                                           Edmund Hilary
      "I don't suppose its gonna fucking rain?"
                                           Joan of Arc
     "Scattered fucking showers my ass."
                                          Noah
       "I need this parade like I need a fucking hole in my head."
                                       J.F.K.
  >>



=2D-----------------------------------------------------
| Go Play with GoPlay Email!
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000004 - it's FREE!

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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 22:12:10 1998
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Don't get confused between multitasking and multithreading. Furthermore, Rhapsody is based on a mach3 kernel, not BSD. BSD, is a flavor of unix. Native MacOS is still the best OS on the planet. Second to none. There's nothing quite like it. 

Billabong 



jonas@nit.AirTouch.COM (Jonas Edgeworth) wrote on Thursday January 15, 1998 at 10:31am:
> 
>> Macs would be so much better if they had decient multitasking!
>> 
>> -idw
>
>Check out Mac's new OS: Rhapsody. Its all based on the BSD kernel so >I'm sure it will have better performance and functionality (or at  least better than NT).
>
>-JoNaS-


------------------------------------------------------
| Go Play with GoPlay Email!
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000004 - it's FREE!


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Minh said:
<<<Believe me, I wouldn't want to be stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or
the MIdwest because I would probably get lynched.>>> 

I said:
That's a bit of an extremist view isn't it?  I've lived in those places,
although not ideal by any means, I certainly haven't heard of lynchings in
decades.  But I do know that there were some in the early half of this century.
I think it's getting a little better these days not counting the church
burnings of African-American parishes.

<<<You see, I am not European, i don't look European, and even though I am more
educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as a European, and since the
majority of US stock is still mostly European- descendant I will get the
shorter heavier end of the stick.  And since I am an FoB from Vietnam and
everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that popular with veterans groups
either.>>>

So do you want a special award or something?  Statistics show that Asians,
Hispanics and people of mixed decent are on the rapid rise in the U.S.  Why
would you need veterans groups for support?  Do they dictate the quality of
your life here?  Are you or your family in the military where you are scorned
for being Vietnamese?

My uncle (by marriage) is Japanese and was in the "442nd Go for Broke" company
of WW II.  He and other Asian-American soldiers had bad experiences with the
veterans groups.  So I'm just wondering what part the veterans groups play in
your life?  Are they protesting outside your door for you to go back to
Vietnam?

More educated than most Europeans?  Do you see the irony, do you see the
perpetuation of the tragedy?  Maybe it's just me.  Shorter and heavier end of
the stick?  You make it seem like you are a slave in the garment district.  I'm
sure your education serves or should serve you well.  

We as minorities have to deal with lots of crap sometimes.  Don't be a victim
and raise y'ass up!  You seem to understand the system you are living under, do
what you have to do to make your life and those that are important to you
pleasant and enjoyable.  Whether it be studying in the wee hours of the morning
or working harder than the accepted majority.  These are just generalizations. 
I won't go into the whole, "I have numerous Vietnamese friends who were boat
people" schpiel.  I always crack up when people do that, regardless of what
ethnic group they're talking about.

By calling yourself an FoB from Vietnam and stating that "everyone knows that
can of worms", well it sickens me.  Why make such callous statements regarding
your parents decision to flee oppression.  YOU are not an FoB from Vietman,
your parents were trying to get you away from a harsher existence than you have
now.  It is not a can of worms, it is your immediate family's history and one
that I presume you will pass on to your children, grandchildren, etc.  So they
may know what their ancestors had to endure.

<<<Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the citizenship exam and
been through the sworn in process?  I did it when I turned 18 (this is kinda
funny, but for some reason both of my parents became naturalized when I was
still a minor, technically making me a citizen too, but they forgot to declare
me as their son--their only child--on their paperwork...go figure)>>> 

Haven't been sworn in and never witnessed it firsthand.  Took the exam and
passed though.  I'm assuming you took the oath of your own free will.  And yet
you maintain all these things wrong with the U.S.  You're like the person with
a gambling problem, they keep complaining that the casino is cheating them but
keep on coming back anyway.  It's the only game in town right?  But then
there's always another casino.

<<<I couldn't believe the list of possible exam questions, it would have
eliminated the whole state of Kentucky as citizen material, at least.>>>

I would venture to say that there are some good people in Kentucky who would
take umbrage at your comments.  You are the offspring of your own
self-victimized existence.  There are idiots everywhere, not necessarily
limited to Kentucky.

<<<Too bad there weren't any questions about killing Injuns or enslaving Blacks
or interning Japanese-Americans in concentration camps. If that wasn't bad
enough I almost gagged during the swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last
minute flight from SF to LA in the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock
of nationalist propaganda shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and
smelling apple pie with visions of the American dream and the statue of
liberty, of course...they wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.>>>

Let me get this straight, you were attending an institution of higher learning
in the U.S. where you petitioned to be a citizen (of the U.S.).  You got called
to indeed be sworn in at the court house.  And you have the audacity to call
the ceremony a "crock of nationalist propaganda shite (I'm assuming that's
"shit" since you didn't mention you had any fuckin' Scottish in you (oops,
pardon mon americain)."  

I ask you, what country does not have nationalist propaganda in their
citizenship swearing in ceremony?  Is there a country that says, "Hey thanks
for coming down to our ceremony.  We know we're a bunch of bastards running
this country trying to screw you all the time and we pretty much don't give a
damn about you or your refugee, torn clothes wearin', funky food eatin',
foreign language speakin' country asses.  But if you want to become a citizen
of our extremely oppressive and prejudiced country, then by God, which everyone
should believe in, homosexuals excluded, please join us." Give me an as yet
never before seen huge break will ya'?  BTW, many immigrants did not understand
that you had to declare children so they could automatically become citizens. 
I think it might have been a language barrier in the legalese of documents.

<<<But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.>>>

Is that what citizenship is reduced to?  Hassle free international travel and a
vote every now and then?  I'd love to have those rights and more.

<<<I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived in Germany,
I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have also lived in
freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout price comparisons and
informed decisions. And even though the USA is the lesser evil, it's still got
a long ways to go.>>>

Congrats on accumulating travel stamps.  But what do you bring to the table
other than "the U.S. sucks because I've lived elsewhere?"  You said so
yourself, the lesser evil?  Instead of creating your own utopia somewhere,
you've chosen the lesser evil, thereby ingratiating yourself to all the other
whiners about "I don't get a fair shake 'cause I'm a minority and I'm going to
tell everybody how this country jukes me everytime."

<<<What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.>>>

As I said in an earlier post, the comparison of marshal law (brought on by a
country's government) and AIDS is a stretch.  Unless you're saying that the
U.S. government unleashed AIDS on its citizens.  Those other problems you
mentioned are not only in the U.S. but elsewhere.

I said:
I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
(imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
 
DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
 

<<<You said: I'm not gonna say a single word about that one, not a single one,
cuz I've said plenty in previous threads about it already.>>>

Yeah, you've said enough alright.  Enough to let others of non-minority
backgroud get the wrong idea about immigrants.  I'm glad you don't speak for
minorities (and neither do I for that matter).  Your points of view contribute
to a food stamp state.  Can you get the correlation?  Please use all your
superior to Europeans' education for edification.  My main points are, if you
don't like it, get out.  Quit being a victim looking for excuses why your life
is not what you want it to be.  Be proud of your family history, where you are
from and who you are.  Oh fuck, that's it already, I sound like the 'rents. 
I'm out like a scout with no doubt.  Peace y'all!

<<<I'm surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth
off so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time.>>>

How's that for crucifiction?  Do your hands and feet hurt yet?  I got a crown
of thorns in my desk I can FedEx ya if ya likes.  Hah!  I slay me!

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"...not everyone understands house music, it's a spiritual thing, a soul
thing..."


			  << E N D   O F   M E S S A G E >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 22:45:56 1998
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Date: 16 Jan 98 14:43:44 -0800
From: "Zza" <JLACZKO@us.oracle.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: CDs
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http://www.cductive.com 
 
Is offering a site where you can pick the tracks 
you want to put on your own personal CD comp. 
 
The choices are somewhat limited: Tek9, Subject 13, q-Moog, 
Endemic Void, Ninja Tune stuff, .... 
 
zza

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 23:17:18 1998
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Reply-to: "Bbong" <Bbong@goplay.com>
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I'm so ready to hit the snow, it's disgusting. I haven't been up there since Sunny. Anyone got a bus?

Avoid TREES at all costs
--Billabong

LACIE_MURPHY@Non-HP-MountainView-om3.om.hp.com wrote on Thursday January 15, 1998 at  1:17pm:
>     I'm totally willing to help do this Sno'B week-end! How many people 
>     are seriously interested in going??  
>     
>     THANKS LACIE


------------------------------------------------------
| Your boss can read your Email.  Is this what you want?
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000001 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 23:17:53 1998
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HEy peeps,

 I have a favor to ask:

TEmporarily dislocated SFRAVER seeks any firsthand inform. on London
Scene/internet resources fer Parties... 

any words of wisdom from the cosmo-polite-s of the list would be more than
welcomed with positive vibes =)

Thanx,

q.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 23:25:10 1998
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From: Carlos E Soto <philboyd@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
cc: "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "Dirty \(E-mail\)" <dirtylist@west.net>
Subject: Re: A new game for the arcades
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a friend of mine went to japan and played it, said it was very fun. can't
wait to test my skills.

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Rick wrote:

> There is a new game in development for the arcades that I think that you guys 
> would enjoy learning about...  It's a DJ turntable game!  You play a DJ and 
> you have to spin music!  
> 
> Here's the URL where I found out about this game, just click on the link
> that the page provides for news...  Under the link "Everybody wants to be a DJ"
> http://www.psmonline.com/jsmid/index.html
> 
> Have fun!  
> 
> Your Jedi Bitch,
> Jedi666Boy
> 
> ~Kick! Punch!  It's all in the mind.  
> If you want to test me, 
> I'm sure you'll find,
> The moves I'll teach you,
> They're sure to beat you,
> But never the less,
> You'll get a lesson from teacher!
>  - Parappa the Rapper
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 23:32:34 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: THE Set times for Planet Rock
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These were given to me yesterday by Mikey of Planet Rock.  I was given set
times so that I would know where to go for press, (I am a photojournalist).
Do not believe everything you read or hear.  It's ben my experience that
times change and artists do not show up, so keep that in mind.

Peace
dmarie
Ground Score

HIP HOP ROOM
essence 8 - 9:15
sugarhill gang  12-1
del the funky   1-1:45
scratch piklz   1:45-2:30
ztrip/emile/radar   2:30-4:30
joey    4:30 - close


DRUM N BASS
simon 10-11
ufo, abstract, noel 11-12
RAW 12-1:30
Danny the Wild Child 1:30 -3PM
119 crew  3-4:30
Star Eyes 4:30 - close



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 23:42:05 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: THE Set times for Planet Rock
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:42:54 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 3:31 PM
Subject: THE Set times for Planet Rock


>HIP HOP ROOM
>essence 8 - 9:15
>sugarhill gang  12-1
>del the funky   1-1:45
>scratch piklz   1:45-2:30
>ztrip/emile/radar   2:30-4:30
>joey    4:30 - close
>
>
>DRUM N BASS
>simon 10-11
>ufo, abstract, noel 11-12
>RAW 12-1:30
>Danny the Wild Child 1:30 -3PM
>119 crew  3-4:30
>Star Eyes 4:30 - close
>
Are there more rooms cuz I don't see some names that are supposed to be on
the list here like:

DJ Dan
Dj dimitry
silver &cyfunk3
grandmaster flash
dj paradox
and like lots more that I don't have time to write.

Did these people just up and cancel or is this list incomplete.

MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 23:45:54 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: How much $$$ for Planet Rock
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:46:30 -0800
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Well like the title says how much moola for this massive

MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 23:47:28 1998
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From: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>
Message-Id: <199801162347.PAA16840@atari.saturn5.com>
Subject: "Princess pills" (fwd)
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:47:17 -0800 (PST)
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[www.telegraph.co.uk]
> ECSTASY tablets stamped with the names of Diana, Princess of Wales and
> Dodi Fayed are being sold in nightclubs, it emerged yesterday.
> 
> On the other side of the pills are the letters RIP, a spokesman for
> the National Criminal Intelligence Service said. Drug experts said the
> designs on the tablets were a marketing ploy used by pushers eager to
> increase sales by cocking a snook at the Establishment.
> 
> The spokesman for the NCIS, which monitors the drugs trade, said: "New
> designs for tablets are arriving all the time. You get people trying to
> be as inventive as they can to create a demand. Although it is illegal,
> it is still marketing and dealers are looking for ways to keep up their
> sales. There is no difference between the designs and the contents of
> the tablets - they can all be just as impure as each other."
> 
> The tablets are being circulated by drug pushers with others featuring
> the Queen's face and the emblem of Mercedes, the maker of the car in
> which the Princess and her friend Mr Fayed were killed in Paris.
> 
> Another batch of pills bears the name of Leah Betts, the Essex teenager
> who died after taking the drug on her 18th birthday.

-- 
"I have spoken to one cat, and to many.  And wherever I have gone,   www.zikzak
 my message is the same...  Dream it!  Dream the world. Not this     .net/~acb/
 pallid shadow of reality.  Dream the world the way it truly is."
		-- Neil Gaiman, _Dream of a Thousand Cats_

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tsheets@saturn5.com                        <- You have found me   
tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com                  <- Official Use Only
http://www.saturn5.com/tsheets/            <- Instant Content
troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com               <- Inquire Within

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 00:25:38 1998
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To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: No times for 3rd room - P Rock
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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YES, I am sorry, there is also a third room.  Since I have not been
contracted to any work with any of those headz I did not get the time slot
info.  

Silly of me not to note that on my post.

PEACE
~~~~~~~dmarie~~~~~Ground Score~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 03:42 PM 1/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
>To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 3:31 PM
>Subject: THE Set times for Planet Rock
>
>
>>HIP HOP ROOM
>>essence 8 - 9:15
>>sugarhill gang  12-1
>>del the funky   1-1:45
>>scratch piklz   1:45-2:30
>>ztrip/emile/radar   2:30-4:30
>>joey    4:30 - close
>>
>>
>>DRUM N BASS
>>simon 10-11
>>ufo, abstract, noel 11-12
>>RAW 12-1:30
>>Danny the Wild Child 1:30 -3PM
>>119 crew  3-4:30
>>Star Eyes 4:30 - close
>>
>Are there more rooms cuz I don't see some names that are supposed to be on
>the list here like:
>
>DJ Dan
>Dj dimitry
>silver &cyfunk3
>grandmaster flash
>dj paradox
>and like lots more that I don't have time to write.
>
>Did these people just up and cancel or is this list incomplete.
>
>MooK<><
>
>


me...dmarie


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 00:45:35 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1e9be59b.34bffc26@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:32:36 EST
To: mcarey@triad.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Set times for Planet Rock
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hmmm...

DAN  12
D Glaude 9:15
Dj dimitry  dunno? 

cyfunk3  1:30

grandmaster flash  no clue...?

dj paradox  dunno not listed, either...

natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 00:45:42 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <967de799.34bffad7@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:27:01 EST
To: mcarey@triad.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  How much $$$ for Planet Rock
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well, looks like 30 bucks
presales less maybe?

damn.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 00:52:00 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject:  Re: How much $$$ for Planet Rock
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:52:54 -0800
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WWWWWHHHHHHHAAAAAATTTTTTTT!@#@!#@!
$30
It's not New Years anymore peoples.
Anybody else think this is a hell of a lot to pay for something that's going
to be held at home base. I was thinkin about it but now I dunno know. I 'll
have to scrape the bottom of my piggy bank if I end up goin. Anybody else
frntin' the cash for this one?
-----Original Message-----
From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
To: mcarey@triad.com <mcarey@triad.com>; sfraves@hyperreal.org
<sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: How much $$$ for Planet Rock


>well, looks like 30 bucks
>presales less maybe?
>
>damn.
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 01:40:31 1998
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Subject: Yea, re: Planet Crock, Nomad, and a dog named boo...
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I provided some visuals for two of the Planet Rock shows. They seemed have little
concern for the other side of the scene. The promoters pile up thousands from
investors, put out flashy flyers that cost as much as the actual  party, and line
up all sorts of djs, visuals and other promises, then screw everyone in the end
when they don't break even. You think they'd learn after the last disaster. It's
sad when you hear dj's and other providers anxious to kick the shit out of the
promoters, and the party's not even over! (Myself NOT included. I take my loses,
suffer, and learn from the mistake. DOWN PAYMENTS AND DEPOSITS! Mind you , I love
to do shows, and money's NOT the object, but providers have to cover their setup
and operation costs.)

BTW, "investor" means RISK TAKER! They're the LAST people to get paid. They put
their money in a investment (the party) with NO GUARANTY they'll get any or all
of it back!!!! I've been burned too many times by bullshit excuses, like "I gotta
pay back the investors first!!" Well then, I guess my equipment leaves at 1 am.
(but, I can't do that cuz I respect the scene, and the fact that everyone paid
BANK to get in.)

Enough rant and bad vibe... Don't patronize the shit! We all talked about this
after the New Years fiasco....

bunny

U.A.A. wrote:

> Okay,
>
> For about two weeks now I have read loads of email about Nomad and the scene
> and what not.  Not that thats over now I see all these posts about Planet
> Rock and shit.  Now come on,  maybe its me or have I missed something.
> I am not saying I like one more than the other but if I had to choose between
> the two I would go to a Nomad party hands down. Its like saying one thing but
> doing another.  I know that I am generalizing a lot but I remeber the first
> Planet Rock last year and I am sorry I attended.  Since then I vowed to never
> attend another one. Talk about your lack of security high ticket prices..
> I could go on but i won't = )
>
> I guess that the planet rock crew has yet to gain the infamous reputation of
> nomad but I do feel that they have very little concern for the scene.
> IMHO
>
> Happy Thursday,
>
> Herb




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 01:48:20 1998
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People charge $30 because they know the world is full
of suckers. If you dont like $30 partys then dont go.
Duh

If you like $30 partys then get out there and support them
so they can do it again next week.

and be sure to come back monday and whine about this or that.
The whole nomad/space children discussion is forgotten by now isnt it?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 01:51:04 1998
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Subject: DEA marijuana decision  HYPE CHECK
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Just passing on the corrected info, just like others passed on the hype ...
don't you think someone would've known about this by know in this
community?

>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:29:26 -0800
>From: Bob Stutch <stutch@pacbell.net>
>To: "'oasis@curve.net'" <oasis@curve.net>
>Subject: FW: DRUGS - DEA marijuana decision
>
>Not to burst any bubbles but....as an adjunct to John's post.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:   FringeWare News Network [SMTP:email@fringeware.com]
>Sent:   Thursday, January 15, 1998 11:20 AM
>Subject:        DRUGS - DEA marijuana decision
>
>
>
>Sent from: "i.d."  <id@head.com>
>>From:  RickMAPS@aol.com
>>Date:  Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:50:50 -0500 (EST)
>
>Here is a more sober statement about the implications of the DEA decision
>regarding marijuana's abuse potential. This is by Kevin Zeese, the
>co-founder of the Drug Policy Foundation and former director of NORML.
>
>--------------
>
>This [the press release] is exaggeration and public relations. It is good
>to keep the issue alive, but there is no change in policy.
>In the late 70s we/NORML won an appeal to the US Court of Appeals for the
>DC Circuit when the DEA refused to send the NORML rescheduling petition to
>HHS for comment. The court required this as a step in the review process.
>All DEA is doing is what the court required-sending Gettman's petition to
>HHS for comment. It does not mean DEA agrees with anything in the petition
>or that it finds anything in the petition at all convincing.
>It is good that Jon Gettman is keeping the fires burning and stirring the
>pot, but it does not mean a change on the horizon.
>Political pressure will force change. The facts will provide cover.
>Kevin
>--------------------
>
>Here is my [RickMAPS@aol.com] assessment of the implications:
>The definition of abuse potential was at issue in the MDMA scheduling
>hearings that were held in 1985 before DEA Administrative Judge Francis
>Young. According to DEA's lawyers, abuse potential can be determined simply
>by counting the number of people who are using the drug for non-medical
>purposes or even for medical purposes outside of FDA-approved contexts.  In
>other words, MDMA had a high potential for abuse because lots of people
>used it, even though there was virtually no evidence of abuse.  The
>potential was there, however, because lots of people used it.  The key word
>was "potential", not "abuse."  While Judge Young did not accept this
>reasoning, DEA overruled his recommendation that MDMA be placed in Schedule
>3 and put it in Schedule 1, where it remains.
>As far as what this means for the HHS review of marijuana's potential for
>abuse, my guess is that HHS will not even break a sweat to declare that
>marijuana has a high potential for abuse. After all, what about the
>supposed 200,000 people a year who are in treatment for marijuana
>dependency?  Regardless of whether most were compelled to go to drug
>treatment and are not harmed by their use of marijuana, this statistic
>alone will enable HHS to justify keeping marijuana in Schedule 1.
>Jon Gettman's efforts are important for keeping the pressure on the DEA and
>HHS to justify the status quo. But it can be demoralizing to think that a
>strategy will work on a more sweeping level and then be emotionally
>depressed when that degree of change was blocked. Better to have a more
>realistic view of the chances for success so that the long-term struggle
>can be less emotionally draining and more endurable, perhaps even enjoyable
>somehow.
>Rick
>
>
>
>to unsubscribe: put "unsubscribe oasis <your email address>" in the message
>body of the email send to majordomo@curve.net
>to subscribe: do the same thing but kill the "un" in "unsubscribe"
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 02:04:21 1998
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Guys,

Gotta stay outta the heated debate about minority expectations and
perceptions (given that I would definitely be considered "European"),
but my .02 on this exchange is that famous saying (that goes a little
something like this):

U.S. Democracy - its a terrible form of government...But it's still
better than any other that's been invented.

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

p.s. Planet Rock, 30 bucks? hmmmmm, that'll stop me from goin' I
think....Are they giving anything away? Although a chance to see history
perform is damn appealing...


____________________________

They said:

As I said in an earlier post, the comparison of marshal law (brought on
by a
country's government) and AIDS is a stretch.  Unless you're saying that
the
U.S. government unleashed AIDS on its citizens.  Those other problems
you
mentioned are not only in the U.S. but elsewhere.

I said:
I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
(imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
 
DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 02:14:34 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: "glittergirl@value.net" <glittergirl@value.net>
cc: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: NRR: Sprite commercials
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the thing that's so funny about the whole damn Sprite campaign is..
it says to obey your thirst.
i fucking hate sprite.
;)


On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, glittergirl@value.net wrote:

> I like the idea behind the Sprite commercials, but I lost all my enthusiasm
> for them recently.  Sprite also puts on the "Jooky" themed commercials that
> make fun of companies that try to get you to buy their product by offering
> merchandise if you collect enough labels (or game pieces or Camel cash or
> bottle tops -- whatever).  HOWEVER, about an hour later I saw another
> Sprite commercial -- in this one Sprite was saying that if you collect
> enough Sprite labels you will be able to order all of this cool Sprite
> merchandise.  Pretty hypocritic, no?
> 
> So, the ad agency that is doing the Sprite ads right now just seems to be
> good at manipulating "Gen X" beliefs.  They recognize that a larger
> proportion of our generation has become disillusioned with a consumer
> culture based around style, image, and attitude.
> 
> I hate it when I feel manipulated.
> 
> Robin
> 
> 
> >Dear Rave Friends,
> >
> >        Remember "image is nothing, thirst is everything"?  Well I just
> >heard a new radio commercial for Sprite yesterday that appears to be part
> >of the same campaign.
> >
> >        This one really caught my attention, because it has the sound of an
> >Enigma song with Gregorian chanting.  Voices are intoning stuff like
> >"drinking Sprite will make you enlightened,"  "Sprite will help you achieve
> >universal harmony," "Sprite is the fountain of eternal youth," etc. (these
> >aren't direct quotes, I only heard it once).
> >
> >        At the end of the commercial, a more normal-sounding voice comes
> >on, saying that if you think a beverage is going to make you young and
> >perfect you need to get a life, or something to that effect.
> >
> >        I love ads that fuck with your head like that -- tell all these
> >wonderful lies about your product, then disassociate yourself from the
> >message.  Anybody know which ad agency comes up with this stuff, and what
> >other work they are doing?  It's fascinating to watch a company try to
> >build a product image by dumping on the idea of a product having an image.
> >Also interesting how some products become images as some images become
> >products...
> >
> >                                   <<< Starchild >>>
> >
> >
> >                      Don't "just do it," think about it first!
> >                Don't "just be," be someone positive and interesting!
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 02:18:16 1998
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
  (x 22 in case you're counting)

Okay, so it's not racist... then what is it Paul?

And I suppose it's not classist either... *yawn*.  So what does it mean
Paul... care to share with the class?

> And i am not 14 years old Tweaker Man. And the ghetto children post did
> not have to do with planet rock it had to do with a Planet New Year by
> COOL WORLD productions. Totaly differnet rave. Totally differnet
> production.  
> 
> And i am not promoting for Planet Rock and I am going there and I can
> call it the FUNK PHENOMENOM for all i care or i can call it a TECHNO
> LOVE FESTIVAL it doesn't matter. It's a rave and i am going wether they
> are giving away free crack or not for the first 100 people in the door.
> Which they are not. 

Of course not, they'll make more money selling it  <-- joke...

I'm not arguing with you going to Planet Rock... I have other plans, it
has no affect on my sorry ass life.  (I've never spent $30 on a rave
either, but I assume no GHETTO CHILDREN can afford it, so it must be
okay).

> Here is the term for GHETTO CHILDREN that was NOT started by me.
> GHETTO CHILDREN does = people who look ghetto.
> ghetto is a slang term used by african american, caucasian, hispanic,
> etc. etc. teenagers. If you don't know what it means than don't worry
> about it. 

What?  If you're not in the know then what?  Do you realize how backwards
this whole post seems from here?  Could you take some time to write an
explanation of "GHETTO CHILDREN" that doesn't alienate people?  If not
ghetto children, we'll give partial points for GHETTO. 

Maybe you don't know me.  I sometimes help throw parties.  I believe I was
involved in no less than half of your "fave" parties of last year.  You've
danced in front of my speakers, and I've picked up after your trash.  We
probably have a love for music, having fun, finding that place where you
can be yourself with people you just met, and a few friends in common.
I don't expect everybody to "get it", but I can't see someone
understanding the joy within, and then turning around and calling people,
any people that would attend those same events "ghetto children".  Do they
not go to events where I go?  Could you point one out?  How is a ghetto
child different?

Let me start guessing here:

It could be a socioeconomic group: the down and outs, the lower class... I
was raised poor, does that make me a ghetto child?

Could it be the less combly, the stinky, those who let go a little too
much from time to time... do they stop being ghetto children if they
shower?

It could be a reference to an unfashionable style of dress.  Now I know
you're fashion conscious, but I don't think you'd dis people just because
they don't dress "cool"... especially going so far as to avoid raves where
they are present... I mean, think how great you'd look in comparison.

It could be a codename for another group that you either lack the
vocabulary or guts to announce to the group here.

Look, you don't need to explain yourself, but that statement "if you don't
know what it means then don't worry about it" is just about as elitist as
it gets (like those Harley license plates... if I have to explain, you
wouldn't understand)... I personally would REALLY like to know what it
means, but I think my guess is correct, and I will continue to judge you
with that assumption until you clarify further. 

> 
> That is that. Forget about it and don't bring up past shit that isn't
> important anywyay. It just creats DRAMA.

You're referring to a nameless mass of people, that you cannot succesfully
describe to a understanding, caring bunch of people you consistently claim
to love, and then say don't worry about it?

Listen to yourself.

Okay...

Let's just assume I just got off the boat here, I speak English but lack
knowledge of many of the idioms and slang used here and that's all you
know about me.  You have a guy come up and offer you a thousand dollars if
you can get me to understand what a Ghetto Child is...  well?  Can you
explain?  In no vague terms?  I want to know... I mean, what if me or one
of my friends are a ghetto child?

I'm just confused at this point... there seems to be a lot of terms that
have some racial loading that get used a bit, and when push comes to shove
they just can't seem to explain why so and so, the cool raver, is
different than the gangsta/ghetto child/untouchable.  Is it that they
don't have a comuputer (technophobe)?  They're not on SFRaves
(connectivity challenged)?  Wear Dickies instead of JNCOs (thrifty, poor)? 
They are new to the scene (september child, newbie)?  Well? 

If you thought about raving and all the other good stuff, you'd realize
this is for everyone who is lame enough to commit a night to spending it
with other equally lame folk under the stars, in a scary location, at a
beach, in a house, on the run, in love with the music.  I don't understand
the idea of a class of people that somehow shouldn't be involved,
especially one I can't explain.

We don't make parties $5 or $10 so people can save money, we do it for two
reasons... we figured out that we should break even at that price, and we
hope to get anyone who wants to go to our event there, not just those who
can afford it.

Peace,
AndyW

p.s.	I realize we're having a heated discussion here, but I don't hate
you or anything like that, I'm just having a lot of trouble understanding
your viewpoint here on account of one term, and I just can't seem to
figure it out despite my honest attempts to understand.

"there is saurkraut in my leiderhosen"


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 02:29:58 1998
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Fishman,

Hmmmm....Maybe raves are a place where we can re-affirm our beliefs that
we are good creatures and our humanity is something that can be believed
in for the potential it contains?

Just a thought,

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

p.s. or maybe they are just places where water should be free and music
is really, really loud....your call.

Jfish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> 
> Minh Q. Le wrote:
> 
> >
> >  and due to the nature of the scene breaking the law and doing
> > illegal things while on drugs is what raving is all about.
> 
> Really? I know you speak for a lot who come to raves but
> some go for other reasons, dont they? What ever happened
> to community or all this talk about conciousness raising?
> Im curious about why sfravers go to raves. Its been made very clear
> that the spiritual or community reasons are not the motivation
> as has been quite strongly stated and demonstrated here, so
> what is the motivation? Just to get wasted and feel good?
> 
>         ><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
>                 foolish fish

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 02:31:42 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
cc: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is a Ghetto Child?
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, AndyW wrote:

> Could it be the less combly, the stinky, those who let go a little too
> much from time to time... do they stop being ghetto children if they
> shower?

You got it all wrong. If they start showering they stop being hippies...

Ducking for cover and running like hell :-)

				Black Adder
 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 02:47:29 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:47:32 -0800
From: ~e~l~e~n~a~ <epetzar@earthlink.net>
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my craziest "trip" of all was while camping with an old boyfriend, and
my best friend from college, Lance, up in Oregon admist the redwoods. 
Lance and i dropped LSD and went mountain biking, i had to be rescued by
the forrest rangers cuz i got lost in the woods, remember Bjork's video
w/ the big bear and her running? let's say i relate to that video, i
_thought_ there was a bear, anyways, it was getting dark, Mike was
getting worried, and knew Lance and i were probably up to no good ;)
they found me laying on a fallen tree trunk, i was trying to blend into
my surroundings, big ass bear ya know, Lance was found making out with a
tree, Mike and i took turns getting the splinters out of Lance's tongue,
OUCH! everytime i think about that i bust up! i tease him all the time,
"hey Barky, ever made out w/ a tree?" what are friends for?!

my first experience on LSD was when i was 15, my friends and i went to
Magic Mountain, it's like Great America, just north of LA, there was
this food court area, and i thought i was in Snorkle land, remember the
cartoon? they were like the Smurfs but under water, so i couldn't
understand anybody cuz it sounded like they were under water, while
waiting in one of the lines, we noticed some guys in line they were
mouthing the word "f-r-y-i-n-g" it freaked me out, i asked my friend how
they knew we were, and my friend said "of course they know, they are
too." the scarriest part was riding the rollercoasters, shiiiiit!!!!!
NEVER AGAIN at an amusement park
that's it....
~Elena~

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 02:57:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:01:18 -0700
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To: blkadder@value.net
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is a Ghetto Child?
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blkadder and gang,

Funny!

o.k., the serious part:
I actually think that the term, depending on its context and intent at
the time it is being used, can be either a derogatory term ("you ain't
nothin' but ghetto!" - which is trying to conjure all the bad things
about being in a ghetto and apply it to the person that is being
attacked with it) 

OR

it can be a term of endearment or show of support for the underdog which
tries to convey the idea that, hey, we are "ghetto" (children) and it is
your loss if that is all you can see or think that is all that we can
attain to.

I think both usages depend on the context and intent of the speaker. 
As far as race is considered, all people of cultures, races, or
nationalities suffer harsh living conditions that could be considered
"ghetto's".

It is truly equal opportunity living condition.

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com


 blkadder@value.net wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, AndyW wrote:
> 
> > Could it be the less combly, the stinky, those who let go a little too
> > much from time to time... do they stop being ghetto children if they
> > shower?
> 
> You got it all wrong. If they start showering they stop being hippies...
> 
> Ducking for cover and running like hell :-)
> 
>                                 Black Adder
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 03:22:29 1998
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When I think of Ghetto Children I think of hoodies who show up at raves 
and start fights and ruin the vibe. The only reason they show up is 
either to sell or do drugz in an environment that their drugz won't be 
taken away by the police. People like this don't care about the "scene" 
or about the vibe of the rave. They are usually not very nice and are 
almost always in the middle of any violence that happens at a rave. They 
are the element that makes massives unsafe. It doesn't matter what they 
wear or how they smell or what color they are. They are parasites and 
contribute nothing but bad vibes andscary situations. That's my 2&1/2 
cents

MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 03:38:57 1998
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Subject: As One -- in with their arps and moogs and jazz and things
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 19:38:48 -0800
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I picked up this CD on Clear (CLR430CD) knowing nothing about As One or
Clear other than having heard the name "As One" bandied about on this
list on occasion. I got it for $12.99 in lovely San Frandisco. I
usually make it a point to buy at least one mystery CD that people seem
to be talking about when i go shopping, and last trip to R.R., this was
it... Last one I bought was SKAMpler, which I don't like nearly as much
as this one, except for maybe about 4 trax on it. The rest sounded like
video game music.

Bottom line w/r/t "in with their arps and moogs and jazz and thins" --
I like it, probably a lot more than many other "idm" benighted releases
I've bought. I've usually found that the more "intelligent" the music
is, the less I like it.... I mostly like unintelligent dance music
(e.g. chicago house ala Derreck Carter or Mark Grant) because, after
all, it's my butt, not my brain, that dances.

Anyways, I was wondering how does this release compare w/ other "As
One" releases. Do they have this kinda sound? Are they better, worse,
different? I like this sound.

And who the hell is Kirk Degiorgio. I can swear i've heard that name
before in some other context that I can no longer remember.

Thanx.

PS: I found this in a net search offa
offa http://www.forcedexposure.com/labels/clearuk.html
-- looks like I saved $6.00!!

                 Artist: AS ONE
                 Title: in with their arps, and moogs, and jazz and things.
                 Label: CLEAR (UK)
                 Format: CD
Price: $19.00
Catalog Number: CLR 430 CD

As One is Kirk Degiorgio . He ran the A.R.T. (Applied Rhythmic
Technology) label, more recently superceded by by OP-ART. He has also
recorded as Future/Past & Esoterik, on labels such as R+S and New
Electronica, including an appearance on Planet E's Intergalactic Beats
compilation. In a similar vein to Black Dog productions or Carl Craig,
Degiorgio makes the intensely organic machine music of the highest
order, with lush jazzified keyboards floating across streaming
bottom-loaded techno basslines. This is a CD version of the previous
double-EP vinyl release The Message in Herbie's Shirt with an extra
track, and follows Celestial Soul (New Electronica) as the 2nd As One
album. An extremely high caliber production. 

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 04:33:29 1998
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Subject: Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))
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		"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14   4:57pm) <Pine.GSO.3.96.980114165118.16938A-100000@shell> 
		<v04003a01b0e3ff458b26@[207.93.14.13]> 
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Phred, it sounds to me like you think: That promoters are useless amateur
hustlers that lie, and exploit the ravers who are just a bunch of gullible
sheep that waste their time in our adolescent scene which exists without
purpose, and Bill Graham (whose company is about to stars strip-mining this
scene) is some sort of role model.  We really have nothing further to discus.
This is obviously not going anywhere, and I have more productive things to do
with my time.   Your view and mine are as opposite as night and day.  Thanks
for the reply ... it was... interesting.   Keep it Real... Vlad

Fred Heutte wrote:

> I haven't yet met a promoter who wasn't in it primarily for the money.
> It's true, it's a pretty difficult task and the money has to be there
> to make it worthwhile.  But Vlad, your argument boils down to, "What
> we lose on selling by the unit we make up by selling in volume."
> Nonsense.  Any promoter who loses money won't stay in the game for
> long (some get around this by specializing in finding suckers--, er,
> "investors" one after the other).
>
> The only real question is whether money is the *only* motivator.  I've
> met a few promoters who really did have more motivation than that.
> Bill Graham, at least in his early years, had a wider view of things.
> Many promoters start with an uplifting view of their role, but either
> drop out or start focusing on the money.  Believe me, I've seen this
> happen over and over in all different kinds of musical scenes.
>
> I also disagree on another point.  Promoters are not, by definition,
> necessary.  They are only needed to expand event sizes to commercial
> scales.  I have never been in favor of expanding *this* scene to a
> commercial scale although, in many respects, that's inevitable.
> I don't mind some commercial events as long as the balance doesn't
> tip too far in that direction which has been the case (San Francisco
> somewhat excepted) for several years now. My POV on this is influenced
> by living in Portland and seeing how things are working on the west
> coast and elsewhere.
>
> Promoting in this scene is a smalltime hustle.  Hardly anyone goes about
> it professionally, with the exception of Spundae.  I always felt the self-
> promoted events (even including Wicked) were basically the best in the
> scene over time, though it's true I missed out on the great Toon Towns
> of the past.  Overall, promotion has turned the scene into something
> I don't like very much, although I'm still devoted to the music and the
> DIY approach.  Again, I'm not denying there was a certain inevitability
> to all this.  "Raving" turned into a 6-month rite of passage for teenagers,
> with "promoters" collecting the $20 tolls as they passed through along
> the way to other things.  There are many who stick with it far longer
> than that, of course, but if you look at the overall numbers that is
> what it adds up to.
>
> We now have a scene with no ambition or vision.  I bow to the inevitability
> once again.  Perhaps we can learn some lessons from all this for the next
> cycle, whenever it comes around.  In the meantime, my motto for some time
> has been, "it's time to go underground to our own underground."  And in
> the words of the Submariner, "we will never surface."
>
> phred




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 05:04:26 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:04:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Reply-To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: raves and politics was:Re: Raver Parade
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> Minh Q. Le wrote:
> 
> > 
> >  and due to the nature of the scene breaking the law and doing
> > illegal things while on drugs is what raving is all about.  
> 
> 
> Really? I know you speak for a lot who come to raves but
> some go for other reasons, dont they? What ever happened
> to community or all this talk about conciousness raising?
> Im curious about why sfravers go to raves. Its been made very clear
> that the spiritual or community reasons are not the motivation
> as has been quite strongly stated and demonstrated here, so 
> what is the motivation? Just to get wasted and feel good?
> 

-->Hey Fish, you misquoted me!!! That's not nice at all, you should read
the message again and understand the context of what I was saying.  Now
it's gonna look like I'm a big druggie or something :(

...This is what kim said...and my response....

>> By being uninvolved and throwing illegal, free parties we are
>> definitely making a statement.
 
>-->Yes, that statement would be that all ravers are not law-abiding
>citizens and due to the nature of the scene breaking the law and doing
>illegal things while on drugs is what raving is all about.  I love free
>parties and illegal UGs that keep the scene fresh, but outside observers
>don't see it as a party for the sake of the music and outside observers
>certainly wouldn't know or care about all the bureaucratic costs that
>"legal" events entail.

--> Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I was being ironic...maybe next time
I write something I should add an (IR) symbol after every other sentence
to warn people or something...geesh. But if you read that far on my post,
the general gist of it would have clarified this passage?
	And no, I don't speak for other people, my opinions are mostly my
own and if they happen to coincide with other people's occassionaly,
great...if not, too bad, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it :) I would
never try to put my words in other people's mouths w/o their consent, and
when I happen to use "we" this or "us" that, it is only meant to imply
people that have similar opinions as myself and not the scene overall.  If
others have other opinions about it, they should voice it; nothing wrong
about that.

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 05:59:49 1998
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Hiya Megan & Everyone,

You know you have a fat momma when.... 

oh. oops. (Hey, Megan! I'm Doin' Great By the way - Sorry I didn't get a
chance to send you email last week. its been crazy!)

You know you are addicted to the Internet when:

-------------------

You find yourself typing 'com' after every period when using a word processor.com

You turn off your modem and get this awful empty feeling, like you just pulled
the plug on a loved one.

Your start introducing yourself as 'John at I-I-Net dot com.'

Your significant other (S.O.) drapes a blond wig over your monitor to remind
you of what she looks like.

All of your friends have an @ in their name.

You can't call your mother - she doesn't have a modem. 

Your phone bill comes to your doorstep in a box.

You laugh at people with 2400 modems.

You move into a new house and decide to Netscape before you landscape.

You refer to going to the bathroom as [downloading].

You tell the cab driver you live at: http://123.elm.street/house/bluetrim.html

Your S.O. makes a new rule: 'The computer cannot come to bed.'

You ask a plumber how much it would cost to replace the chair in front of your
computer with a commode.

You start tilting your head sideways to smile :-).

You turn on your computer and turn off your S.O.

Your spouse says communication is important in a marriage, so you buy another
computer and install a second phone line so the two of you can chat..."

;)

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 06:02:38 1998
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References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com>        "SF Weekly article" (Jan
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Subject: Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)
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At 2:27 PM -0800 1/15/98, Ray Vonie wrote:
>There is a WHOLE lot of REAL BULLSHIT that goes on in the OPD and this whole
>permit thing.  I tried to bring up some of these FACTS during the whole Cool
>World / Cuberfest 3 / Alameda Naval Base situation.  But no one really seemed
>to care because it was Cool World that got Fucked.

> Many people on this list think that promoters are greedy money grubbing
>bustards...

I read it this way:

> Many people on this list *know* that *many* promoters are greedy money
>grubbing bustards...



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 06:49:20 1998
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From: mikew@hyperreal.org
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> Hi Mike (OLD SCHOOL IN DA HOUSE!!!)

That's right... School is back in session!  (And with over 400 sfraves
messages in my mailbox, I already feel like I'm behind on my homework.)

> > I am currently involved in an email conversation with an old college friend
> > that I haven't seen in over 7 years.  She lives in NYC, recently completed
> > a law degree, and is now complaining that she doesn't like being a lawyer.
> 
> I would be careful to generalize from a single instance. Especially if
> that instance is a lawyer. Although there are a few good lawyers, it is
> mostly a profession composed of liars and con-artists who have made a
> career of professionally manipulating the truth for financial gain and
> with absolutely no care about the lives their profession destroys in
> it's wake. 

Wow!  Talk about generalizing from a single instance!  I can't say
anything about "most" lawyers, and I don't really know a lot of lawyers,
but the ones I do know are pretty cool in general.  The lawyer friend
of mine that we were talking about is considering going to South America
to help indigenous people protect their rainforest land.  And my sister's
husband recently left a high-paying litigation job for a lower-profile
job helping old people write wills.


> Then again, positive people suck too. Especially if you've personally
> been dealing with some reality that is important to you, but is totally
> misunderstood by a positivist's polyanna mindset. Sometimes, "have a
> nice day" is not what one wants to hear -- as it indicates a sort of
> selfishness on the part of the "positive" person who isn't willing to
> understand you, your problems, or even to show that they care enough to
> console or help others around them that are dealing with reality.
> 
> That's because it's easier to let some stupid and superficial
> positivism roll of your lips than it is to share another persons 
> burdens. With few exceptions, I've found people that are overly
> positive have some severe issues of their own that they are masking, or
> are simply too selfish to care about others.

Totally agreed.  To me, this is a sign of lack of respect for another
erson's reality.  And you can't have real unity without that respect.
It seems to me that the problem with some people's interpretation of 
"PLUR" is that the "U" and the "R" are missing (and as you said before,
the source of the "P" and the "L" can be highly questionable).


> Ultimately, it's all about humor and not about negativity. I think the
> thing I like about east coasters is that they've culturally absorbed
> some of that jewish self-deprecating humor and have learned to turn
> potentially tragic situations into a source of humor. This resonates
> with me because, after all, I'm jewish. 

Yeah -- as an ex-East Coaster, one of my biggest challenges in getting 
used to the West Coast was figuring out the different way that humor is
perceived in SF.  Right now, as am typing this, I am on vacation
"back home" in Ft Lauderdale.  I've been hanging out with some of my old
high school friends and have been noticing that I relate to them in a very
different way than I used to.  I find one of them so obnoxious that he's 
almost intolerable to be around.  And he is moving out to SF next week.  
Now *that* will be interesting!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 06:49:45 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Hey, this late bird is going to Tranceforce in the city from Berkeley in
'bout an hour.  If you have nothing to do, c'mon an' go...call me at (510)
845-3226.

:)
M&m 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 07:10:46 1998
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Ruth Jennison wrote:

>  
>
> There is simply no way for a rave "collective" to exist in capitalist
> society, just like it is impossible to have socialism in one country.

Have you ever heard of Friends and Family?  It definitely exists and is
definitely a collective.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 08:17:13 1998
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:

> 
> Minh said:
> <<<Believe me, I wouldn't want to be stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or
> the MIdwest because I would probably get lynched.>>> 
> 
> I said:
> That's a bit of an extremist view isn't it?  I've lived in those places,
> although not ideal by any means, I certainly haven't heard of lynchings in
> decades.  But I do know that there were some in the early half of this century.
> I think it's getting a little better these days not counting the church
> burnings of African-American parishes.

-->...Not counting the church burnings of African-American parishes?????
That should be example enough of what I was talking about.



> 
> <<<You see, I am not European, i don't look European, and even though I am more
> educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as a European, and since the
> majority of US stock is still mostly European- descendant I will get the
> shorter heavier end of the stick.  And since I am an FoB from Vietnam and
> everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that popular with veterans groups
> either.>>>
> 
> So do you want a special award or something?  Statistics show that Asians,
> Hispanics and people of mixed decent are on the rapid rise in the U.S.  Why
> would you need veterans groups for support?  Do they dictate the quality of
> your life here?  Are you or your family in the military where you are scorned
> for being Vietnamese?

-->Oh no, I don't want any medals thank you, I've had quite a few from
elementary school already that say I am special.  What the hell do I need
from statistics to tell me that I am moving up in the world? I know I'm
moving up and I know i'll be successful because that's who I am not; not
because I am asian, and to hell not because some two bit writer with a
flat ass from the Economist's statistics department says that I will. 
	I don't need veterans groups for support, but they do affect some facets
of my life here because of the numerous lobby groups that work for them in
D.C.  My family is not in the military and we are scorned for being
Vietnamese by some sects of O.C. in SoCal because they feel threatened by
the "yellow plague" and "...the rapid rise [of Asians] in the U.S."

> 
> My uncle (by marriage) is Japanese and was in the "442nd Go for Broke" company
> of WW II.  He and other Asian-American soldiers had bad experiences with the
> veterans groups.  So I'm just wondering what part the veterans groups play in
> your life?  Are they protesting outside your door for you to go back to
> Vietnam?

-->No, they are not protesting outside my door because I live in the urban
areas of California.  However, some of their sons and daughters happen to
call me gook, chink, nip, charlie, VC, commie bastard, ching chong
chinaman, and numerous other endearing nicknames that make me ever so
popular. When I happen to be in a mixed gathering and I answer the
inevitable ever so polite "...so where were your parents born?" I get
subsequently asked by a guy in his 50's "so what do you think about 'Nam?"
after he tells me his qualifications as being a veteran in this infantry
of that unit during this year at that location, and I am here
wondering...this guy must have children my age, I wonder if he asks his
children what they thought about 'Nam. Ohhh, but you should see their
faces when this uppity little VietMANese tells them that the US military
"excercise" in 'Nam was despicable and the whole war was the fault of the
US and he was sent as a child to do a "man's" job and butcher a nation so
that Washington could have pristine political ties with France...do you
think I'll ever get invited to afternoon tea at his house? Maybe i'll luck
out and get invited to join his family for X-mas dinner, and that would be
great 'cuz then I would be able to give him a copy of McNamara's
confession that the warlord that ordered him to serve in 'Nam to see his
fellow brother die thought that the war was...after all these
years...wrong.  Do you think he would be mad if I asked his permission to
date his daughter?

> 
> More educated than most Europeans?  Do you see the irony, do you see the
> perpetuation of the tragedy?  Maybe it's just me.  Shorter and heavier end of
> the stick?  You make it seem like you are a slave in the garment district.  I'm
> sure your education serves or should serve you well.  
> 

-->I'm glad that you managed to see the irony, or else everything would be
oh so hopelessly lost and we wouldn't understand each other. The tragedy
is that, for some unbeknownst reason to myself, Americans still feel the
need to place European decay on a pedestal...I just felt the need to shake
the pedestal for a bit; got a problem wid dat? Hey, watch your language
young man, i happen to have had relatives and family aquaintances that
were slaves in the garment district...how do you think all those nips in
my junior high got all those Guess jeans? I never wore any because they
are soooo tacky. I'm only comfy in my 501's and if I ever am down and out
in Europe I can always sell them to some sucker at an inflated price. Oh,
my education did you say? Well I learned the major points of rampant
consumerism and materialism while here, and I presently owe the federal
gov't $13,000 in loans for this "formal" B.S. education. But they owe it
to me anyways considering how they Napalmed everything and sent in Agent
Orange with a license to kill back in '72. Sure was hoot wasn't it with
all those little yellow dogs havin' the skin drip off their bones,
harharharhar, hand me 'nudder beer BillyBob....  



> We as minorities have to deal with lots of crap sometimes.  Don't be a victim
> and raise y'ass up!  You seem to understand the system you are living under, do
> what you have to do to make your life and those that are important to you
> pleasant and enjoyable.  Whether it be studying in the wee hours of the morning
> or working harder than the accepted majority.  These are just generalizations. 
> I won't go into the whole, "I have numerous Vietnamese friends who were boat
> people" schpiel.  I always crack up when people do that, regardless of what
> ethnic group they're talking about.
> 

-->For your information it's a German word and should be spelled "spiel"
but since you're using it as american slang why don't you spell it
"tzschpeel" instead?  What? Study? Work? You do that? I don't.  Now I feel
so guilty for being a slacker; woe is me, woe is me, what a bad minority I
am.

> By calling yourself an FoB from Vietnam and stating that "everyone knows that
> can of worms", well it sickens me.  Why make such callous statements regarding
> your parents decision to flee oppression.  YOU are not an FoB from Vietman,
> your parents were trying to get you away from a harsher existence than you have
> now.  It is not a can of worms, it is your immediate family's history and one
> that I presume you will pass on to your children, grandchildren, etc.  So they
> may know what their ancestors had to endure.
> 

-->How dare you  accuse me of convenience labeling, what do I look
like to you, safeway? What do you mean I am not an FoB from Vietnam? I was
born in Saigon you moron and I was on that boat with my parents in 1980
and I have the fucking pictures to prove it; and the refugee camp too.
I even made it into the local German town's newpaper sitting in a toy
store with other cute smiling Vietnamese kids straddling stuffed lions and
holding Matel toys with the approximate slogan "meet your new exotic
southeast asian FoB neighbors!" underneath it--we didn't get to keep a
single one of those damn toys. You know those cast off toy drives? Those
were _my_ toys. 
	I am not even your typical first generation malcontent if that's what
you are implying.  It is a can of worms because my nation of people were
forced to be a diaspora upon the other continents of the world. And if
possibly I were still in Vietnam and not here would I miss what I never
had?  Could I possibly imagine the excess and the horrors, the luxury and
the hardship?  Would I break from avalonian dreams or forget my dignity
and debase myself before a western tourist so I can craddle the buck that
would buy me my ticket outta there? Ignorance is not bliss, but knowledge
is so much worse.
	Oh my children will know, don't fret about that, because they
won't be born here.




> <<<Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the citizenship exam and
> been through the sworn in process?  I did it when I turned 18 (this is kinda
> funny, but for some reason both of my parents became naturalized when I was
> still a minor, technically making me a citizen too, but they forgot to declare
> me as their son--their only child--on their paperwork...go figure)>>> 
> 
> Haven't been sworn in and never witnessed it firsthand.  Took the exam and
> passed though.  I'm assuming you took the oath of your own free will.  And yet
> you maintain all these things wrong with the U.S.  You're like the person with
> a gambling problem, they keep complaining that the casino is cheating them but
> keep on coming back anyway.  It's the only game in town right?  But then
> there's always another casino.
> 

--> Sorry I can't empathize with you on that anology since I'm not a
gambler.  I didn't take the oath cause I wanted to; I had to if I ever
wanted to get off this rock. It was all for the passport baby.



> <<<I couldn't believe the list of possible exam questions, it would have
> eliminated the whole state of Kentucky as citizen material, at least.>>>
> 
> I would venture to say that there are some good people in Kentucky who would
> take umbrage at your comments.  You are the offspring of your own
> self-victimized existence.  There are idiots everywhere, not necessarily
> limited to Kentucky.

-->Self-victimized?  No...I know the good, and I know the bad...do YOU
know the difference?  Many don't.
	True they aren't limited to Kentucky, but there sure are a lot of
them there :)


> 
> <<<Too bad there weren't any questions about killing Injuns or enslaving Blacks
> or interning Japanese-Americans in concentration camps. If that wasn't bad
> enough I almost gagged during the swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last
> minute flight from SF to LA in the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock
> of nationalist propaganda shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and
> smelling apple pie with visions of the American dream and the statue of
> liberty, of course...they wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.>>>
> 
> Let me get this straight, you were attending an institution of higher learning
> in the U.S. where you petitioned to be a citizen (of the U.S.).  You got called
> to indeed be sworn in at the court house.  And you have the audacity to call
> the ceremony a "crock of nationalist propaganda shite (I'm assuming that's
> "shit" since you didn't mention you had any fuckin' Scottish in you (oops,
> pardon mon americain)."  
> 


-->I don't think you've been able _to_ get much straight concerning this
post, but it's okay cause you don't know where I'm coming from.  What are
you saying?  Only citizens of the USA deserve a higher education in this
nation?  I was forced to be at the swearing in; otherwise I wouldn't have
been able to get my certificate or passport and would have to wait another
couple of years before I was called up again...and all for a crock of
shite. I happen to like the Scotts and Irish, its the Brits I have
reservations about.  No, I don't think I have a single drop of Scottisch
blood in me, but I do speak English and German--does that place my
ethnicity in question too?  Oh, I forgot, you tried to use "spiel"
beforehand didn't you?




> I ask you, what country does not have nationalist propaganda in their
> citizenship swearing in ceremony?  Is there a country that says, "Hey thanks
> for coming down to our ceremony.  We know we're a bunch of bastards running
> this country trying to screw you all the time and we pretty much don't give a
> damn about you or your refugee, torn clothes wearin', funky food eatin',
> foreign language speakin' country asses.  But if you want to become a citizen
> of our extremely oppressive and prejudiced country, then by God, which everyone
> should believe in, homosexuals excluded, please join us." Give me an as yet
> never before seen huge break will ya'?  BTW, many immigrants did not understand
> that you had to declare children so they could automatically become citizens. 
> I think it might have been a language barrier in the legalese of documents.
> 


-->It would be refreshing though to get the truth from the gov't at least
once in a lifetime; at least you'll know what you're getting yourself
into.


> <<<But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
> passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
> to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
> bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.>>>
> 
> Is that what citizenship is reduced to?  Hassle free international travel and a
> vote every now and then?  I'd love to have those rights and more.

-->Pretty much. You don't have to be a citizen to die for this country you
know, but don't even try to run for office w/o it.


> 
> <<<I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived in Germany,
> I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have also lived in
> freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout price comparisons and
> informed decisions. And even though the USA is the lesser evil, it's still got
> a long ways to go.>>>
> 
> Congrats on accumulating travel stamps.  But what do you bring to the table
> other than "the U.S. sucks because I've lived elsewhere?"  You said so
> yourself, the lesser evil?  Instead of creating your own utopia somewhere,
> you've chosen the lesser evil, thereby ingratiating yourself to all the other
> whiners about "I don't get a fair shake 'cause I'm a minority and I'm going to
> tell everybody how this country jukes me everytime."
> 

-->Yeah, I'm kinda proud of my passport stamps too :)  Of course I chose
the lesser evil, what, you expect me to choose Botswana instead? I'm
obnoxious, but I'm not a fool. If I and other minorities don't speak out,
who will?  If we just sit and take it, who's gonna rally for legislation
reform?  Why don't you go create your own Utopia in the projects or the
flats of death valley?



> <<<What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
> abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
> It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
> international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.>>>
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, the comparison of marshal law (brought on by a
> country's government) and AIDS is a stretch.  Unless you're saying that the
> U.S. government unleashed AIDS on its citizens.  Those other problems you
> mentioned are not only in the U.S. but elsewhere.
> 

-->I'm not accussing the gov't of unleashing AIDS cause I don't have
access to classifed files, but they are damn slow 'bout providing funding
and back-up for the cure of it though...seems like the gov't is dragging
their feet, if you know what I mean...but you probably don't.



> I said:
> I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
> forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
> (imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
>  
> DISCO 2000,
> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
>  
> 
> <<<You said: I'm not gonna say a single word about that one, not a single one,
> cuz I've said plenty in previous threads about it already.>>>
> 
> Yeah, you've said enough alright.  Enough to let others of non-minority
> backgroud get the wrong idea about immigrants.  I'm glad you don't speak for
> minorities (and neither do I for that matter).  Your points of view contribute
> to a food stamp state.  Can you get the correlation?  Please use all your
> superior to Europeans' education for edification.  My main points are, if you
> don't like it, get out.  Quit being a victim looking for excuses why your life
> is not what you want it to be.  Be proud of your family history, where you are
> from and who you are.  Oh fuck, that's it already, I sound like the 'rents. 
> I'm out like a scout with no doubt.  Peace y'all!

-->Don't give me this bull 'bout the wrong idea about immigrants.  Your
mama was an immigrant and your grandmama and her mama before her and
so on until you find your FoB ancestor in the mists of time; you tell that
to their underpaid  no skill working 80 hour shifts in non-safe
child-ploitation immmigrant-enslaving rat infested hovel dwelling not
enough to eat bread stealing garbage rummaging rag encrusted non washed
bodies dirty smeared faces when they complained to the big boss man,
boyee...wow, almost feel like I'm a NYC person or somethin'.  
	I don't speak for anybody but for myself, and you just correlated
yourself there buddy, cuz most of Europe is a food stamp socialist state.
THanks for the tips, I think I'll go change my life now--I feel so
motivated; as if I just shook the hand of the father of this great nation
George " the mighty" Washington and received blessing from the ever
saintly abolitionist and saviour of us all: Abraham Lincoln, hallelujah!


> 
> <<<I'm surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth
> off so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time.>>>
> 
> How's that for crucifiction?  Do your hands and feet hurt yet?  I got a crown
> of thorns in my desk I can FedEx ya if ya likes.  Hah!  I slay me!
> 

-->Hurt me baby. If you make it good I'll let you borrow my whip, but
let me handcuff myself to a cactus first and then you go at it.  Oh
yeah, Oh yeah, OH Yeah, OH YEAH MOTHER OF GAWD use that stapler on me big
daddy, devirginize me with that huge hot saucepan...do it now!!!!



Wow, thanks. You got me all excited.
:)
M&m


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$25 presale. $30 at the door.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Mook wrote:
> 
> Well like the title says how much moola for this massive
> 
> MooK<><

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 08:21:31 1998
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I am not gonna talk shit. I know these people and i know thier
intentions. I am just going because I feel like going to a big massive
for some crazy reason. If  it sucks, oh well. It can't be worse than
certain other parties i have been to. If it really does suck then i will
tell them next time i see the people and ask them what is up. At least
they are upfront about it. There is Hip Hop there There WILL be a lot of
gangsters. There WILL be badvibes. There WILL be a lot of peope who
aren't ravers. at least %95 of those people who have never been to a
party before may not go again. It's a party. Go expecting the worse and
maybe you will find somethine good. Find me in the bouncy castle. I will
try to sneak my crack pipe in, hopefully they will let me. (JOKE)
I have pre-sale i better get a bag with a t-shirt and CD like it saids
on the flyer.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Bruce G. Meier, CRM wrote:
> 
> I provided some visuals for two of the Planet Rock shows. They seemed have little
> concern for the other side of the scene. The promoters pile up thousands from
> investors, put out flashy flyers that cost as much as the actual  party, and line
> up all sorts of djs, visuals and other promises, then screw everyone in the end
> when they don't break even. You think they'd learn after the last disaster. It's
> sad when you hear dj's and other providers anxious to kick the shit out of the
> promoters, and the party's not even over! (Myself NOT included. I take my loses,
> suffer, and learn from the mistake. DOWN PAYMENTS AND DEPOSITS! Mind you , I love
> to do shows, and money's NOT the object, but providers have to cover their setup
> and operation costs.)
> 
> BTW, "investor" means RISK TAKER! They're the LAST people to get paid. They put
> their money in a investment (the party) with NO GUARANTY they'll get any or all
> of it back!!!! I've been burned too many times by bullshit excuses, like "I gotta
> pay back the investors first!!" Well then, I guess my equipment leaves at 1 am.
> (but, I can't do that cuz I respect the scene, and the fact that everyone paid
> BANK to get in.)
> 
> Enough rant and bad vibe... Don't patronize the shit! We all talked about this
> after the New Years fiasco....
> 
> bunny
> 
> U.A.A. wrote:
> 
> > Okay,
> >
> > For about two weeks now I have read loads of email about Nomad and the scene
> > and what not.  Not that thats over now I see all these posts about Planet
> > Rock and shit.  Now come on,  maybe its me or have I missed something.
> > I am not saying I like one more than the other but if I had to choose between
> > the two I would go to a Nomad party hands down. Its like saying one thing but
> > doing another.  I know that I am generalizing a lot but I remeber the first
> > Planet Rock last year and I am sorry I attended.  Since then I vowed to never
> > attend another one. Talk about your lack of security high ticket prices..
> > I could go on but i won't = )
> >
> > I guess that the planet rock crew has yet to gain the infamous reputation of
> > nomad but I do feel that they have very little concern for the scene.
> > IMHO
> >
> > Happy Thursday,
> >
> > Herb

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 08:25:07 1998
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OK THIS IS THE FINAL WORD ON GHETTO CHILDREN!!!!!!
Go RENT THE MOVIE "BRAIN CANDY" AND THERE IS A PART IN THE MOVIE WITH A
REFERNECE TO GHETTO CHILDREN THAT IS WERE THIS WHOLE THING CAME FROM.
DONT YELL AT ME WRITE TO THE DAMN PEOPLE WHO MADE THE MOVIE. I CAN SAY
WHATEVER I WANT. YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT. JUST REMEMBER TO NOT
TAKE EVERYTHING IN EMAIL AT FACE VALUE. DONT BRING UP USLESS PAST SHIT.
THERE IS NO POINT TO IT. GET A LIFE. START A NEW POST ABOUT CRACK OR
SOMETHNG. POST ABOUT TECHNO. GO TO PLANET ROCK. HAVE FUN. BYE
LOVE,
PAUL*E*WOG
P.S. I CAN USE ALL CAPS IF I WANNA

Robert Pointer wrote:
> 
> blkadder and gang,
> 
> Funny!
> 
> o.k., the serious part:
> I actually think that the term, depending on its context and intent at
> the time it is being used, can be either a derogatory term ("you ain't
> nothin' but ghetto!" - which is trying to conjure all the bad things
> about being in a ghetto and apply it to the person that is being
> attacked with it)
> 
> OR
> 
> it can be a term of endearment or show of support for the underdog which
> tries to convey the idea that, hey, we are "ghetto" (children) and it is
> your loss if that is all you can see or think that is all that we can
> attain to.
> 
> I think both usages depend on the context and intent of the speaker.
> As far as race is considered, all people of cultures, races, or
> nationalities suffer harsh living conditions that could be considered
> "ghetto's".
> 
> It is truly equal opportunity living condition.
> 
> rob.
> http://www.citizenmag.com
> 
>  blkadder@value.net wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, AndyW wrote:
> >
> > > Could it be the less combly, the stinky, those who let go a little too
> > > much from time to time... do they stop being ghetto children if they
> > > shower?
> >
> > You got it all wrong. If they start showering they stop being hippies...
> >
> > Ducking for cover and running like hell :-)
> >
> >                                 Black Adder
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 08:31:31 1998
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Okay Andrew Witscanowskit or other.
You whole post was GHETTO.
You are GHETTO.
You spin GHETTO records.
Your shoes are GHETTO.
You sir are the essence of GHETTO.
Get a GHETTO life.
I love the GHETTO of you.
Lotsa GHETTO love,
Paul*GHETTO*Wog
P.S. One word:Dictionary!!!!!!
Look up ghetto.
Look up children
Put the words together. what you don't have a definition.
oh then your dictionary must be GHETTO.
How many times did i say the word GHETTO is this GHETTO post.
Do you GHETTO what i am saying yet?


AndyW wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
>   (x 22 in case you're counting)
> 
> Okay, so it's not racist... then what is it Paul?
> 
> And I suppose it's not classist either... *yawn*.  So what does it mean
> Paul... care to share with the class?
> 
> > And i am not 14 years old Tweaker Man. And the ghetto children post did
> > not have to do with planet rock it had to do with a Planet New Year by
> > COOL WORLD productions. Totaly differnet rave. Totally differnet
> > production.
> >
> > And i am not promoting for Planet Rock and I am going there and I can
> > call it the FUNK PHENOMENOM for all i care or i can call it a TECHNO
> > LOVE FESTIVAL it doesn't matter. It's a rave and i am going wether they
> > are giving away free crack or not for the first 100 people in the door.
> > Which they are not.
> 
> Of course not, they'll make more money selling it  <-- joke...
> 
> I'm not arguing with you going to Planet Rock... I have other plans, it
> has no affect on my sorry ass life.  (I've never spent $30 on a rave
> either, but I assume no GHETTO CHILDREN can afford it, so it must be
> okay).
> 
> > Here is the term for GHETTO CHILDREN that was NOT started by me.
> > GHETTO CHILDREN does = people who look ghetto.
> > ghetto is a slang term used by african american, caucasian, hispanic,
> > etc. etc. teenagers. If you don't know what it means than don't worry
> > about it.
> 
> What?  If you're not in the know then what?  Do you realize how backwards
> this whole post seems from here?  Could you take some time to write an
> explanation of "GHETTO CHILDREN" that doesn't alienate people?  If not
> ghetto children, we'll give partial points for GHETTO.
> 
> Maybe you don't know me.  I sometimes help throw parties.  I believe I was
> involved in no less than half of your "fave" parties of last year.  You've
> danced in front of my speakers, and I've picked up after your trash.  We
> probably have a love for music, having fun, finding that place where you
> can be yourself with people you just met, and a few friends in common.
> I don't expect everybody to "get it", but I can't see someone
> understanding the joy within, and then turning around and calling people,
> any people that would attend those same events "ghetto children".  Do they
> not go to events where I go?  Could you point one out?  How is a ghetto
> child different?
> 
> Let me start guessing here:
> 
> It could be a socioeconomic group: the down and outs, the lower class... I
> was raised poor, does that make me a ghetto child?
> 
> Could it be the less combly, the stinky, those who let go a little too
> much from time to time... do they stop being ghetto children if they
> shower?
> 
> It could be a reference to an unfashionable style of dress.  Now I know
> you're fashion conscious, but I don't think you'd dis people just because
> they don't dress "cool"... especially going so far as to avoid raves where
> they are present... I mean, think how great you'd look in comparison.
> 
> It could be a codename for another group that you either lack the
> vocabulary or guts to announce to the group here.
> 
> Look, you don't need to explain yourself, but that statement "if you don't
> know what it means then don't worry about it" is just about as elitist as
> it gets (like those Harley license plates... if I have to explain, you
> wouldn't understand)... I personally would REALLY like to know what it
> means, but I think my guess is correct, and I will continue to judge you
> with that assumption until you clarify further.
> 
> >
> > That is that. Forget about it and don't bring up past shit that isn't
> > important anywyay. It just creats DRAMA.
> 
> You're referring to a nameless mass of people, that you cannot succesfully
> describe to a understanding, caring bunch of people you consistently claim
> to love, and then say don't worry about it?
> 
> Listen to yourself.
> 
> Okay...
> 
> Let's just assume I just got off the boat here, I speak English but lack
> knowledge of many of the idioms and slang used here and that's all you
> know about me.  You have a guy come up and offer you a thousand dollars if
> you can get me to understand what a Ghetto Child is...  well?  Can you
> explain?  In no vague terms?  I want to know... I mean, what if me or one
> of my friends are a ghetto child?
> 
> I'm just confused at this point... there seems to be a lot of terms that
> have some racial loading that get used a bit, and when push comes to shove
> they just can't seem to explain why so and so, the cool raver, is
> different than the gangsta/ghetto child/untouchable.  Is it that they
> don't have a comuputer (technophobe)?  They're not on SFRaves
> (connectivity challenged)?  Wear Dickies instead of JNCOs (thrifty, poor)?
> They are new to the scene (september child, newbie)?  Well?
> 
> If you thought about raving and all the other good stuff, you'd realize
> this is for everyone who is lame enough to commit a night to spending it
> with other equally lame folk under the stars, in a scary location, at a
> beach, in a house, on the run, in love with the music.  I don't understand
> the idea of a class of people that somehow shouldn't be involved,
> especially one I can't explain.
> 
> We don't make parties $5 or $10 so people can save money, we do it for two
> reasons... we figured out that we should break even at that price, and we
> hope to get anyone who wants to go to our event there, not just those who
> can afford it.
> 
> Peace,
> AndyW
> 
> p.s.    I realize we're having a heated discussion here, but I don't hate
> you or anything like that, I'm just having a lot of trouble understanding
> your viewpoint here on account of one term, and I just can't seem to
> figure it out despite my honest attempts to understand.
> 
> "there is saurkraut in my leiderhosen"

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 08:32:36 1998
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YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY!! you get it. is it that hard Andy Witsconwoskitz???
this guy said it.
Love,
Paul*GHETTO*Wog

l mook l wrote:
> 
> When I think of Ghetto Children I think of hoodies who show up at raves
> and start fights and ruin the vibe. The only reason they show up is
> either to sell or do drugz in an environment that their drugz won't be
> taken away by the police. People like this don't care about the "scene"
> or about the vibe of the rave. They are usually not very nice and are
> almost always in the middle of any violence that happens at a rave. They
> are the element that makes massives unsafe. It doesn't matter what they
> wear or how they smell or what color they are. They are parasites and
> contribute nothing but bad vibes andscary situations. That's my 2&1/2
> cents
> 
> MooK<><

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 08:46:05 1998
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so i'm stuck home tonight w/ flu leftovers, blah, and i tune in to
SFRaves only to *yawn* not see any discussion about raves or music.

i think a couple of the threads should go private now

let's talk music or parties

what's going on tomorrow night?

what records/cds did pEEps buy this week?

please entertain me home on Fri nite sucks!
huggies absorb mor plur,
~Elena~

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 09:12:04 1998
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>
>let's talk music or parties
>
>what's going on tomorrow night?
>


    Hey girl, I feel for yahz.  I'm stuck in southern Cal until ... oh shit
I forgot ... oh yah until Sunday.
    Anywayz, on #sfraves we're kinda experience some conversational
difficulties, too.  Lots of ... I hate to even say the phrase .. but
non-ravers are in the channel and kinda dilluting the conversation.  While
there's nothing wrong with this a few people have come on and say,"Hey, I
thought you dumb bastards talked about raves."  Well not in those words of
course.

      : ) : ) : )

    But anyway, I don't really have a point.  I would however like to
suggest to the list that if you're really bored and stuck at home you should
come on IRC.  It's really simple and not difficult once you're on.

    Musique: Damn, I love every bit of techno I hear.  Well not booty house
and terrorcore but you know what I mean.  ; )

    Parties:  Don't go to Planet Rock.  Save the list another thread similar
to NYE's Origin shite.

    Love: Yah, I care about my #sfravers.  They're the best group of friends
I've had since I was in 3rd grade.

    *gimme some lovin'*

    : ) : ) : )  NICO   : ) : ) : )


**************************************************************************
                                            Techstep Industries
      nico@techstep.com                                   #sfraves [EFnet]
      http://www.techstep.com/nico                  #techstep [EFnet]
**************************************************************************




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 09:13:04 1998
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blkadder@value.net wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, AndyW wrote:
> 
> > Could it be the less combly, the stinky, those who let go a little too
> > much from time to time... do they stop being ghetto children if they
> > shower?
> 
> You got it all wrong. If they start showering they stop being hippies...
> 
> Ducking for cover and running like hell :-)
> 
>                                 Black Adder
> 


Well you know hippies are very concientious people that truely
care about our enviorment...unlike ravers who just toss their
empty 5 dollar water bottles and four color flyers on the ground.

This is how it work...its a selfish waste of water to shower by yourself.
So instead of mindlessly wasting water its better to wait until
you have someone else or preferably a group to shower with.
Saving water helps keep the price down so next time you see
a smelly hippie go up and thank him or get him stoned
because it is his noble sacrifice that allows you to pay one
dollar for a bottle instead of two.

or something like that.

	><{{{">   <"}}}><

		foolish fish



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 09:42:18 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:42:05 -0800
In-Reply-To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
        "Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))" (Jan 16,  8:30pm)
References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com> 
	"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14   4:57pm) <Pine.GSO.3.96.980114165118.16938A-100000@shell> 
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To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))
Cc: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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I'm hardly surprised you're twisting my statements to your purpose, Vlad.
For one thing, I'm no fan of the current situation with Bill Graham
Productions.  BGP has been in a tailspin of greed since Graham passed away
in the helicopter crash.  But you display your lack of knowledge here.
Graham worked in the early 1960s with the SF Mime Troupe, and gradually
moved over toward concert production.  He was the organized, businesslike
one who was perceived as an arrogant bully by the streetwise crowd around
Chet Helms and Family Dog Productions.  The hassles between them form a
crucial chapter in the history of SF music circa 1967-69.  I have some
sympathy for both sides.  Graham had a real heart and though he was a
businessman to the core, he did two things that stand well above most
concert promoters.  First, he professionalized the concert business and
made it possible for the average person to go see bands in an era when
promoter greed and stupidity was as widespread as it is in the 'rave'
scene but far more prevalent due to the far higher and wider profile of
rock music in the mid-1960s.  Second, he continually backed worthwhile
community projects, sponsoring benefit concerts and many other favors.
As I said, much of what he did was strictly business, but Graham stands
out as someone who walked it like he talked it.  He was a true hands-on
manager.  No hiding in the office avoiding personal contact with the
performers, the staff and the audience so he could dodge payment obligations
or deal with audience issues.  I once saw him personally tackle someone
who hopped the fence at Shoreline.  Maybe a little rough, but sneaking into
a show like that epitomizes one aspect of the scene.  One thing -- he
didn't send nameless goons to do the work for him.  

Graham was a complex guy, and I wouldn't want to be like him, but he
earned respect and we can all learn lessons from how he was and what he did.
Part of which is shown so clearly in the greed mob that BGP now is.

When Graham died, the spirit of his company died with him.

Rave promoters are making *all* of the same mistakes that were made
in the 1960s, and the defenses being given now are all the same ones
that were heard then about how central to the scene they were and how
hard it was to do things, golly gee.

Bob Marley, along about the same time, wrote verses in many of his songs
which alluded to similar conditions in the Jamaican music business.
One of them goes,

"Who the cap fit, let them wear it."


peace out
phred

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 10:05:28 1998
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Subject: Re: so you met my friend freshie 
In-reply-to: Your message of "17 Jan 98 06:49:18 GMT."
             <19980117064918.980.qmail@hyperreal.org> 
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> Wow!  Talk about generalizing from a single instance!  I can't say
> anything about "most" lawyers, and I don't really know a lot of lawyers,
> but the ones I do know are pretty cool in general.

>From the two instances below, you don't really know any real lawyers. I do.

Basic definition: Real lawyers are people one doesn't leave skidmarks
for when they walk infront of oncoming traffic. 
  
> The lawyer friend
> of mine that we were talking about is considering going to South America
> to help indigenous people protect their rainforest land.

She is definitely not a real lawyer. Real lawyers don't do this kind of
work, as it indicates they still have some soul left. Having a soul is
a career-killing proposition in the practice of law. Your friend sounds
like she used to work with "real lawyers" and and she probably can't
handle working with people that are scumbags, aka "real lawyers."

Good for her.

> And my sister's
> husband recently left a high-paying litigation job for a lower-profile
> job helping old people write wills.

Again, not a real lawyer. the people he left behind doing litigation
are real lawyers. helping old people write wills, although a function
of a lawyer, is not what i mean when i say "real lawyer." A real lawyer
stymies the prosecution of the guilty, or sentences an innocent person
to incarceration on a technicality. a real lawyer separates good
parents from their children, or puts children in custody of child
abusers. a real lawyer helps subvert the constitution. a real lawyer
buries real evidence in a mound of red tape and smokescreen arguments.
a real lawyer prevents justice from happening.

there's a difference between "having a law degree" and being a lawyer.
all sorts of people have law degrees and perform functions that don't
turn them into ethical pariahs. by definition, a real lawyer has no
ethics, they are there to win a case by any means necessary.

note that law didn't use to be this way. this kind of "law practice" 
really started becoming the norm after the 1970's. This is around the
time that the practice of law stopped focusing on semantics and began
treating the entire profession as a syntactical manipulation of
language.

because the practice of law has become so involuted, the act of
attaining justice ends up being a function entirely related to money.
the practice of law in the USA is, in fact, an elaborate system of
state-approved bribery in which those with the most money may exert the
most power to subvert the law, and therefore, have the best chance of
winning a case. the factors for winning become the amount of $$$ spent
to engage as many lawyers as possible in as much legal subterfuge as
possible, forcing the  opposing party to "give up" or to spend so much
time  fending off smokescreen-technicalities that the original dispute
becomes lost in the haze. the system no longer has anything to do with
justice.

i'd rather have the good old system of corruption in which you can
bribe your way to justice. ultimately, this costs both sides less money
because you're "eliminating the middle man" (lawyers) from the process.
you pay money to get yourself heard by those making decisions in 
government. simple corruption would also be cheaper because it is our
tax money that helps run the circus that we call the justice system and
provides a forum for this state-approved bribery to take place.

> Yeah -- as an ex-East Coaster, one of my biggest challenges in getting 
> used to the West Coast was figuring out the different way that humor is
> perceived in SF.

Humor isn't perceived in SF, it's regulated. In SF, humor is that fine
line that skirts the unknown boundaries between politically-correct and
bad taste. 
  
> Right now, as am typing this, I am on vacation
> "back home" in Ft Lauderdale.

FTP me some blintzes with a delicate sprinkling of schickses on top,
will ya?

> I've been hanging out with some of my old
> high school friends and have been noticing that I relate to them in a very
> different way than I used to.

Yeah. A couple years ago, this became real apparent to me. I was
hanging out w/ a bunch of ex-HS folk and they'd run around going
"that's so gay" and saying "fag" etc and I found it somewhat shocking,
coming from SF... It was also sad that they were all pretty much still
listening to whatever music they were listening to in high-school and
hadn't evolved in any way other than holding down jobs and/or raising
kids. This fortunately isn't true of all of them. Some of them are just
as weird (esp. w/r/t humor) as they were in high school, and even
though it's been a while now, we can usually get back to where we left
off pretty quick, because humor brings us back together despite the
years.

> I find one of them so obnoxious that he's 
> almost intolerable to be around.  And he is moving out to SF next week.  
> Now *that* will be interesting!

One ex HS friend of mine that i knew since PRESCHOOL always wanted to
fly jet planes and now he does, for the Navy. But in the process, they
turned him into a REAL ASSHOLE (brainwashing). Macho, Intolerant,
stupid, uptight are some of the words i'd now use to describe him. We
no longer can be in the same room together because he gets VIOLENT
during invariable political discussions that arise and he literally
starts calling me a FAG-LOVING COMMUNIST. As if those carefully chosen
words are supposed to jolt me out of some kind of ozzie-and-harriet
reverie and make me come to my senses. The Navy sucked all the humor
out of him... so I can't stand him anymore.

Oh well. Whadya expect from people that still live in Orange County?

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 10:52:13 1998
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From: "Matt Schwartz" <thorfio@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR...Fwd: Condoms - Again, SORRY bout the scroll... 
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I don't usually find post like these to amusing...but this one 
definately made me laugh :-)!

>
>>>> So which condom would you use....?
>>>>
>>>>  Nike Condoms:  Just do it.
>>>>  Toyota Condoms:  Oh what a feeling.
>>>>  Diet Pepsi Condoms:  You got the right one, baby.
>>>>  Pringles Condoms:  Once you pop, you can't stop.
>>>>  Mentos Condoms:  The freshmaker.
>>>>  Flintstones Vitamins Condom Pack:  Ten million strong and       
growing.
>>>>  Secret Condoms:  Strong enough for a man, but pH balanced for a       
woman.
>>>>  Macintosh Condom:  It does more, it costs less, it's that       
simple.
>>>>  Ford Condoms:  The best never rest.
>>>>  Chevy Condoms:  Like a rock.
>>>>  Dial Condoms:  Aren't you glad you use it? Don't you wish       
everybody did?
>>>>  New York Lotto Condoms:  Cause hey - you never know.
>>>>  California Lotto Condoms:  Who's next?
>>>>  Avis Condoms:  Trying harder than ever.
>>>>  KFC Condoms:  Finger-Licking Good.
>>>>  Coca Cola Condoms:  Always the Real Thing.
>>>>  Lays Condoms:  Betcha can't have just one.
>>>>  Campbell's Soup Condoms:  Mmm, mmm, good.
>>>>  General Electric Condoms:  We bring good things to life!
>>>>  AT&T Condoms:  Reach out and touch someone.
>>>>  Bounty:  The quicker picker upper.
>>>>  Microsoft: Where do you want to go today ?
>>>>  Energizer:  It keeps going and going and going....
>>>>  M&M condom:  It melts in your mouth, not in your hands!
>>>>  Taco Bell:  Get some; make a run for the border.
>>>>  MCI:  For friends and family
>>>>  Doublemint:  Double your pleasure, double your fun!
>>>>  The Sears latex condom:  One coat is good for the entire winter.
>>>>  Delta Airlines travel pack:  Delta is ready when you are.
>>>>  United Airlines travel pack:  Fly United.
>>>>  The Star Trek Condom:  To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone       
Before.
>>>>

>>>>  YOU WILL EXPERIENCE GREAT SEX within four days of receiving
>>>>  this letter, provided you send it on.  Since the copy must tour 
the
>world,
>>>>you must make ten copies and send them to others.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 14:07:27 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:07:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: n i c o <nico@techstep.com>
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  "\(\(\(\(plurry pEEps\)\)\)\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: tonights topics
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, n i c o wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> >
> >let's talk music or parties
> >
> >what's going on tomorrow night?
> >
> 
> 
>     Hey girl, I feel for yahz.  I'm stuck in southern Cal until ... oh shit
> I forgot ... oh yah until Sunday.
>     Anywayz, on #sfraves we're kinda experience some conversational
> difficulties, too.  Lots of ... I hate to even say the phrase .. but
> non-ravers are in the channel and kinda dilluting the conversation.  While
> there's nothing wrong with this a few people have come on and say,"Hey, I
> thought you dumb bastards talked about raves."  Well not in those words of
> course.
> 

-->I dunno, I kinda like it when there are other discussions on the list
besides "rave" topics.  It would be mighty boring if you only knew one
side of a person, and I would like to think that the peeps on this list
are real people with personalities and opinions too.  I too get annoyed
when there is nothing on this list but NRR topics and multiple posts
devoted to one single thread, but at this point, there is a
semi-balance...isn't there?

:)
M&m


PS I will contribute to the "rave" discussion by posting a review of what
I did tonight....




>       : ) : ) : )
> 
>     But anyway, I don't really have a point.  I would however like to
> suggest to the list that if you're really bored and stuck at home you should
> come on IRC.  It's really simple and not difficult once you're on.
> 
>     Musique: Damn, I love every bit of techno I hear.  Well not booty house
> and terrorcore but you know what I mean.  ; )
> 
>     Parties:  Don't go to Planet Rock.  Save the list another thread similar
> to NYE's Origin shite.
> 
>     Love: Yah, I care about my #sfravers.  They're the best group of friends
> I've had since I was in 3rd grade.
> 
>     *gimme some lovin'*
> 
>     : ) : ) : )  NICO   : ) : ) : )
> 
> 
> **************************************************************************
>                                             Techstep Industries
>       nico@techstep.com                                   #sfraves [EFnet]
>       http://www.techstep.com/nico                  #techstep [EFnet]
> **************************************************************************
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 14:48:45 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: SFRAVES <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Review:TranceForce
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Okay, I arrived at F-8 just as they were closing (guess why I was late,
just guess; that's right, keeping up with this list made me late--no
wonder I don't have a decent relationship, I spend too much time here :)
and managed to get a ticket (they were long gone at 1:30 AM) by begging
and pleading because I just had to, had to, had to hear Dutch spin again.
So I got my ticket from the Russian promoters (gave me chills; but that's
a personal issue) and hopped skipped and followed this woman named
A-something (if we lost each other we wouldn't have been able to get in).
So from Haight to deepest farthest SoMa the drive just disappeared cuz I
was anticipating so much (illegal $10 underground parties _rule_) fun! The
location was this art space called photo-something by 1st and Tahana (or
something similar) with plenty of parking.  
	It was a strange mixture of people there; candyravers and some
older folx, and nice "ghetto children" who knew how to dance and didn't
cause any trouble as far as I know. First off, I ran into the luscious sir
Ulrich ('trice's shadow and vice-versa; this time w/o trice tho') of the
turntables and we had a wonderful hanging out conversation about how the
music wasn't to our tastes. So then luscious U takes off, and I feel kinda
stranded, but it's okay cause I'm waiting for the DJ of the night, when I
run into my old buddies Clare and Betsy (we partied together all over
Germany and California) and I was as happy as I could be...until I found
out that we were in the midst of Dutch's set!!:)!!!:)!!!:)!!!:)!!!
Well, Dutch took some time warming up, but his set was sooo good after the
other guy's (no offense; just not my type of toons, that's all) I blythely
smiled.  It was one of the longer sets and kept the energy level (and
the humidity) so high that my feet gave out 2/3 through and I had to sit
the rest of the night.  Luscious U missed a fine set tonight. I met some
really kool fucked up ppl tonight too and took some pics :)  The three of
us were completely sober, and I kept on thinking how old I was that my
freakin' toes betrayed me and I couldn't dance till the end.
	After Dutch, came someone that managed to clear out the floor and
freeze everyone mid-move...his style was...er...interesting once he
stopped playing that scratched record. 15 minutes later the cops came and
busted the party at 5:30AM ; ending it 1.5 hours earlier than advertised.
But I didn't care once Dutch told me that it was completely illegal--viva
the UG!!! Nice guy that Dutch, too bad he's playin' massives lately...but
I'll go to a small party of his any 'ol day. And that A-something woman
that I had to follow...she knew my friends and they knew her too...small
scene or what?



:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 16:59:11 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
cc: SFRAVES <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Review:TranceForce
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Russian promoters? TranceForce?

These wouldn't happen to be the same kids who threw the GALACTIC TUNNEL
parties around the same time last year are they?
Coz amidst all the political drama held between these promoters and such,
the GALACTIC TUNNEL parties were a breed of their own -- and I loved them.
If these are the same kids -- damn do they know how to throw a UG. :)
xo
lara

On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Minh Q. Le wrote:

> 
> 
> Okay, I arrived at F-8 just as they were closing (guess why I was late,
> just guess; that's right, keeping up with this list made me late--no
> wonder I don't have a decent relationship, I spend too much time here :)
> and managed to get a ticket (they were long gone at 1:30 AM) by begging
> and pleading because I just had to, had to, had to hear Dutch spin again.
> So I got my ticket from the Russian promoters (gave me chills; but that's
> a personal issue) and hopped skipped and followed this woman named
> A-something (if we lost each other we wouldn't have been able to get in).
> So from Haight to deepest farthest SoMa the drive just disappeared cuz I
> was anticipating so much (illegal $10 underground parties _rule_) fun! The
> location was this art space called photo-something by 1st and Tahana (or
> something similar) with plenty of parking.  
> 	It was a strange mixture of people there; candyravers and some
> older folx, and nice "ghetto children" who knew how to dance and didn't
> cause any trouble as far as I know. First off, I ran into the luscious sir
> Ulrich ('trice's shadow and vice-versa; this time w/o trice tho') of the
> turntables and we had a wonderful hanging out conversation about how the
> music wasn't to our tastes. So then luscious U takes off, and I feel kinda
> stranded, but it's okay cause I'm waiting for the DJ of the night, when I
> run into my old buddies Clare and Betsy (we partied together all over
> Germany and California) and I was as happy as I could be...until I found
> out that we were in the midst of Dutch's set!!:)!!!:)!!!:)!!!:)!!!
> Well, Dutch took some time warming up, but his set was sooo good after the
> other guy's (no offense; just not my type of toons, that's all) I blythely
> smiled.  It was one of the longer sets and kept the energy level (and
> the humidity) so high that my feet gave out 2/3 through and I had to sit
> the rest of the night.  Luscious U missed a fine set tonight. I met some
> really kool fucked up ppl tonight too and took some pics :)  The three of
> us were completely sober, and I kept on thinking how old I was that my
> freakin' toes betrayed me and I couldn't dance till the end.
> 	After Dutch, came someone that managed to clear out the floor and
> freeze everyone mid-move...his style was...er...interesting once he
> stopped playing that scratched record. 15 minutes later the cops came and
> busted the party at 5:30AM ; ending it 1.5 hours earlier than advertised.
> But I didn't care once Dutch told me that it was completely illegal--viva
> the UG!!! Nice guy that Dutch, too bad he's playin' massives lately...but
> I'll go to a small party of his any 'ol day. And that A-something woman
> that I had to follow...she knew my friends and they knew her too...small
> scene or what?
> 
> 
> 
> :)
> M&m
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 18:24:18 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:27:12 -0800
To: XGrRLsTrX <XGrRLsTrX@aol.com>
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re: !~raves and politics~!
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umm easy there.. 

some of us DID throw our two cents out there about ''Massives'' and
''EXPENSIVE PARTIES''

so before you go saying we are all COMPLIANT... do a little research... 

peace and stuff... 

-SugeR



At 05:56 PM 1/15/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-15 03:59:11 EST, you write:
>
><< It's easy
> to just be inactive and let the shit run its course and then sit back and
> moan and groan and bitch about how fascist everything is, but you don't
> have the pregorative to do that because you didn't participate and try to
> stop the shit from happening in the first place. >>
>
>Exactly...silence is compliance.
>
>-=~*LaUrE@*~=-
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 18:38:49 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:41:47 -0800
To: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re: Oh, and one more thing about smoking....
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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UMM.. now listen... yea i am a smoker... and yes a smoke cigs... but come
now subversive... they don't put the cig in your mouth.. and light it for you

I DID THIS FOR MYSELF... no one made me do it...

i don't think that constitutes SUBVERSIVE... 

i just want to SMOKE when i go out... 

Sheesh....

-Suger


At 05:44 PM 1/14/98 EST, you wrote:
>To all the folks who want to herald your right to smoke at parties as an
>expression of your desire to go against the grain now that it has been
>outlawed here in Cali. Consider this, revolutionaries:
>
>BY SMOKING YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY.
>
>There is nothing subversive or revolutinary or enlightening or mind-enhancing
>about puffing on a carniogenic stick. Just ask the "Cancer Man" on the X-
>Files. 
>--Monty
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 18:45:40 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:48:35 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SugeR <Suger@santacruz-ca.com>
Subject: Re:  The New Law...
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i have one thing to say to you Monty... 

that simply was not even NICE... who do you think you are that you can
lecture me about My addictions... 

do you use chemicals... Monty... do you drink coffee Monty.... 

take a look at yourself... and be positive or not at all... 

Peace and Stuff... 

-SugeR


>From: Tekno313 <Tekno313@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:39:29 EST
>To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: Re:  The New Law...
>Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
>X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)
>Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
>
>
>In a message dated 1/14/98 2:40:46 AM, you wrote:
>
><<i have no prollems going outside to smoke... 
>
>but what do we do if the party won't let me out to have a cigarette....
>
>i have to hide in the bathroom like i was in high school again... 
>>>
>
>Oh boo-hoo. How about trying to control your addiction and not smoking for a
>few hours. It certainly wouldnt hurt you to do that. 
>
>The thing that pisses me off about this new law is the fact that foolios are
>still in clubs smoking. Many smokers are so inconsiderate that they STILL
wont
>step outside to smoke, even when it's ok for them to do so. They HAVE to have
>their fix, no matter who is going to be affected by it. I was at Static last
>week and this girl was smoking a few feet away. I wanted to tell her to go
>outside, but for some reason, I figured maybe she would take it upon herself
>to do it. She didnt and ended up immediately lighting another one up and
>sharing it with a guy whe was there with. 
>
>If anyone who reads this can offer me a legitimate reason why I should
have to
>inhale someone else's cigarette smoke, I'll show you more reasons why I
>shouldnt.
>
>If cigarette smoking and many people who smoke werent so inconsiderate, I
>doubt this law would even exist today. But, oh well! 
>--Monty
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 19:44:31 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: rwpointer@citiscape.com, blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What is a Ghetto Child?
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  god damn!! I hate it when PEOPLE YELL(in big caps) ON THIS LIST!!!




On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> OK THIS IS THE FINAL WORD ON GHETTO CHILDREN!!!!!!
> Go RENT THE MOVIE "BRAIN CANDY" AND THERE IS A PART IN THE MOVIE WITH A
> REFERNECE TO GHETTO CHILDREN THAT IS WERE THIS WHOLE THING CAME FROM.
> DONT YELL AT ME WRITE TO THE DAMN PEOPLE WHO MADE THE MOVIE. I CAN SAY
> WHATEVER I WANT. YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT. JUST REMEMBER TO NOT
> TAKE EVERYTHING IN EMAIL AT FACE VALUE. DONT BRING UP USLESS PAST SHIT.
> THERE IS NO POINT TO IT. GET A LIFE. START A NEW POST ABOUT CRACK OR
> SOMETHNG. POST ABOUT TECHNO. GO TO PLANET ROCK. HAVE FUN. BYE
> LOVE,
> PAUL*E*WOG
> P.S. I CAN USE ALL CAPS IF I WANNA
> 
> Robert Pointer wrote:
> > 
> > blkadder and gang,
> > 
> > Funny!
> > 
> > o.k., the serious part:
> > I actually think that the term, depending on its context and intent at
> > the time it is being used, can be either a derogatory term ("you ain't
> > nothin' but ghetto!" - which is trying to conjure all the bad things
> > about being in a ghetto and apply it to the person that is being
> > attacked with it)
> > 
> > OR
> > 
> > it can be a term of endearment or show of support for the underdog which
> > tries to convey the idea that, hey, we are "ghetto" (children) and it is
> > your loss if that is all you can see or think that is all that we can
> > attain to.
> > 
> > I think both usages depend on the context and intent of the speaker.
> > As far as race is considered, all people of cultures, races, or
> > nationalities suffer harsh living conditions that could be considered
> > "ghetto's".
> > 
> > It is truly equal opportunity living condition.
> > 
> > rob.
> > http://www.citizenmag.com
> > 
> >  blkadder@value.net wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, AndyW wrote:
> > >
> > > > Could it be the less combly, the stinky, those who let go a little too
> > > > much from time to time... do they stop being ghetto children if they
> > > > shower?
> > >
> > > You got it all wrong. If they start showering they stop being hippies...
> > >
> > > Ducking for cover and running like hell :-)
> > >
> > >                                 Black Adder
> > >
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 19:46:07 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:48:47 -0800
To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: DERROGATORY..was What is a Ghetto Child?
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At 6:18 PM -0800 1/16/98, AndyW wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
>
>> GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
>  (x 22 in case you're counting)

Here, let me cut right to the point since this is a stupid thread, and I'm
tired of people dancing around words, or trying to redefine them to suit
their own political purposes, and I'm sick and tired of ghetto this and
that spouted by a bunch of middle & upper middle class people:

CRACKER, PECKERWOOD, NIGGER, JUNGLE BUNNY, SPIC, BEANER, DAYGO, WOP, KIKE,
HEBE, MICK, POTATO HEAD, POLOCK, INJUN, DOT HEAD, CHINK, NIP.

"Ghetto" belongs with them.

I am so glad to understand the "goodness" of humanity exemplified above,
and so very happy to know that as we approach the 21st century, our species
still hasn't gotten out of the mud.

If this continues I gurantee we will go nowhere.  We will annihilate each
other.

When. dear g-d, will this sorry ass species stop the bullshit and get on
with the real deal.

Please do everyone a favor lord and start over, this experiment is a total
failure.  Do us a favor an erase us, for we really haven't learned one
fucking thing in 10,000 years.

Thanks g_d.

;(,
John



"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 20:23:34 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:26:16 -0800
To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re:  !~raves and politics~!
Cc: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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I am also tired of the "SF is the best place on earth, and the south sucks"
attitude:

At 3:52 AM -0800 1/16/98, Minh Q. Le wrote:
>On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:
>
>> In-Reply-To:
>>UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3A
>>SMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-15-98
>>15:08
>>
>>
>> "Some of us imports can't do squat cuz we can't vote.
>> From Ireland orginally for those that care."
>>
>> Ditto that...am a dual citizen of Philippines and Spain...I think I'd get
>> kicked outta here if I started protesting and getting really
>>invovled...already
>> got turned down to be a U.S. citizen (family's political involvement
>>elsewhere
>> I suspect)...just happy to have a greencard...you can say how the U.S.
>>is lame
>> and it sucks until you live somewhere else...an informed decision is the
>>best
>> decision...
>
>-->I _have_ lived somewhere else and I still think the U.S. is lame.  I
>just like San Francisco, that's all. Believe me, I wouldn't want to be
>stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or the MIdwest because I would
>probably get lynched.

Hmm...remember the killings of an Asian girl (I think two) in Concord.
What about the wonderful sex trade of teenage Asian girls here in wunnerful
SF.  As for being lynched, the best lynchings have occured here of late,
NOT in the south.  There are mor blacks in the south than out here in the
west, and blacks, in general, have done well in the south.  I have few
gripes with the South because out there, they call it as they see it, and
don;t spend time dancing around issues.  You know if you're liked or
disliked.  But in general, unlike here, people leave each other alone.  Now
compare that to SF, who has just recently asked the courts to recind the
order to desegregate the fire dept.  The police dept. of SF just got it's
first FEMALE homocide detective.  Give me a break.  SF is a great place to
be, but there are other places that are great as well.  SF seems on teh
surface to be very, very, progressive, and there are things about it that
are.  So tell me how many all night parties you can legally attend in this
wonderful liberal city, 2.  Compare that to a republican state like NY,
where you literally can go all night.  The best, maybe to some, to me this
place has a long way to cathc up.  You can;t even have a beer outside in a
cafe setting because of the restrictive ABC laws,  you can't even see some
naked people and have a drink here in "liberal" SF.  Puhleeze.

Rodney King happened here need I remind you, not in the South.

> You see, I am not European, i don't look European,
>and even though I am more educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as
>a European, and since the majority of US stock is still mostly European-
>descendant I will get the shorter heavier end of the stick.

Victim mentality, it's up to you.  There are barriers, yes, but if you pool
your money together, as many Asians do, anything is possible.  Blacks
haven;t done this so we and Natives tend to be on the shortest end, Asians
especially recent immigrants, do this and along with a great emphasis on
education have done relatively well here in the States and in Cali
especially.

>And since I
>am an FoB from Vietnam and everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that
>popular with veterans groups either.

Who cares?  Many vietnamese brothers I know start collectives, become
entrprenuers, and stomp!  That's the program for success that many
immigrant groups have used to get ahead.  Even Haitians in Fla. are doing
so much better than the Indigenous Black population in Miami (where blacks
have been for over 150 years).  The onyl barrier, it seems, for most recent
emigres is the barriers of the mind.  Usually though it can be traversed
via economics because here on this sorry asse rock called the USA, MOENY
RULES!

>	Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the
>citizenship exam and been through the sworn in process?

Being A citizen of New Mother Rome, I needed not take any entrance exams.
Massah didn;t have time for all that crap, he needed us for work, and
breeding.

>I did it when I
>turned 18 (this is kinda funny, but for some reason both of my parents
>became naturalized when I was still a minor, technically making me a
>citizen too, but they forgot to declare me as their son--their only
>child--on their paperwork...go figure) and after numerous years of
>elementary, junior high, and high school American history indoctrination
>my BS alarm was going super-balistic. I couldn't believe the list of possible
>exam questions, it would have eliminated the whole state of Kentucky as
>citizen material, at least. Too bad there weren't any questions about
>killing Injuns or enslaving Blacks or interning Japanese-Americans in
>concentration camps.

Sarcasm on:
All that stuff?  C'mon, it happened a long time ago, who cares, it is what
is going on now that counts.

Sarcasm off!

Sad that most Americans have such a short view, but you see, history has
never been America's strong suit.  We're to busy re-writing it to pay
attention to details, much less the truth.

>If that wasn't bad enough I almost gagged during the
>swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last minute flight from SF to LA in
>the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock of nationalist propaganda
>shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and smelling apple pie with
>visions of the American dream and the statue of liberty, of course...they
>wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.

Your ingratitude shows.  If you hate this place so much why even bother.
Was Vietnam better?

>	But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
>passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
>to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
>bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.
>	I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived
>in Germany, I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have
>also lived in freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout
>price comparisons and informed decisions. And even though the USA is the
>lesser evil, it's still got a long ways to go.

Agreed, but it's still better than any of those places.  Proof?  You're
here and not at any of those locales.

>
>> I do what I can but I know the limits, living under marshal law is
>> unpleasant to say the least...until you see people dying around you for no
>> reason,
>
>-->What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
>abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
>It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
>international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.

AIDS is a disease, for the most part, that can be totally prevented.  It is
a disease of behaviour for the most part.

I agree with your assertions.

>
>
>> I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
>> forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
>> (imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
>>
>> DISCO 2000,
>> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
>>
>
>-->I'm not gonna say a single word about that one, not a single one, cuz
>I've said plenty in previous threads about it already.
>
>
>:)
>M&m
>
>
>PS	I think San Francisco has the best quality raves of all, and I'm
>surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth off
>so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time :)  Now does
>that make it rave related?

So, when will the great SF allow all night parties?  This place ocould use
some enemas too!

Peace & citizenship to the New Mother Rome,
John


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 21:08:52 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:11:58 +0000
From: Billabong <Bbong@goplay.com>
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I'm going to Planet Rock this evening. If any of you peeps need a ride
from the south bay to oakland, I have extra seats. Plan to be there all
night. pgr (408)488-1020


happy happy joy joy,

Billabong


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 21:54:05 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:57:02 -0800
To: "l mook l" <xchan_gamer@hotmail.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Ghetto children or Gangstas
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At 7:22 PM -0800 1/16/98, l mook l wrote:
>When I think of Ghetto Children I think of hoodies who show up at raves
>and start fights and ruin the vibe. The only reason they show up is
>either to sell or do drugz in an environment that their drugz won't be
>taken away by the police. People like this don't care about the "scene"
>or about the vibe of the rave. They are usually not very nice and are
>almost always in the middle of any violence that happens at a rave. They
>are the element that makes massives unsafe. It doesn't matter what they
>wear or how they smell or what color they are. They are parasites and
>contribute nothing but bad vibes andscary situations. That's my 2&1/2
>cents
>
>MooK<><

This is stupid.  First of all Ghetto children , as you call them, could not
afford to go to raves if they tried.  Look up the word ghetto and you will
see it tied to economics.  Ghetto kids are poor and could care less about
fucking up your fun (you really think people who live in the ghetto could
give a shot about dumb ass raves?)  Now I would propose a more proper term;
White Boy.  Looking in the dictionary, white means pure, so let's go with
that.  The people you describe are pure idiots, purely ammoral, and of
course purely arrythmic.

Looking at the demographics of raves I think this term is far more
appropriate, since the majority of fights, the majority of drug dealing,
and the majority of people are by some massive coincidence, of European
ancestry.  But I digress, anyone can be white, yes?  I mean if anyone can
be ghetto, i.e. coming from lower socio-economic standard, then anyone
should be able to be white, i.e. pure, and coming from a certain place of
priviledge.  So since the majority of people who attend raves just happen
to have European ancestry, we'll overlook that for what is really
important, the attitude.  Which can be purely love driven, or purely
motivated by self interest, i.e. White Boy.

White Boy:  Purely self-motivated for his own selfish needs.  Purely
idiotic in putting himself before others no matter what the consequence.
Purely motivated by greed, avarice is his vehicle.  He is also purely
arrythmic, ca';t dance, but  loves to take off his shirt and try, like a
wolf, to attract females who are into his bravado.  After all, this guy
thinks he owns the world and that he has inalienable rights others should
"work" for, if they can.  Usually comes from a middle to upper-middle class
family.  Personal hygeine is can be discarded as a relic of the past to
many of these denizens.

Now my definition, like the re-definition of ghetto, can be applied to
anybody, because after all there are a number of people who can't dance,
who don't care, who come from a higher std of living, who start fights, who
drug deal, who go to raves, who are promoters, who are DJ's, yes?

So there it is, a term that I have redefined to have nothing to do with
history, but, like the redefinition of ghetto,  suits my needs.  I hope
none of you take offense because I will be using this word to describe a
few things I have witnessed in the scene during '97.  Time for a paradigm
shift.  I hope you like it as much as I like the bandying about of ghetto.

So stop acting like a White Boy and leave the people in the ghetto alone.
They don't go to your drug fests, they're to busy surviving to care.

Dear g-d:  When is armageddon and why are you taking so long to get it started?
Hello?  Is anyone there? G-d do you hear me? Is this machine here on?

Out,
John

P.S.  I ain't no White Boy.

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 22:42:31 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:

> I am also tired of the "SF is the best place on earth, and the south sucks"
> attitude:

-->Well, that's because it's true, so there :)


> 
> At 3:52 AM -0800 1/16/98, Minh Q. Le wrote:
> >On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:
> >
> >> In-Reply-To:
> >>UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3A
> >>SMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-15-98
> >>15:08
> >>
> >>
> >> "Some of us imports can't do squat cuz we can't vote.
> >> From Ireland orginally for those that care."
> >>
> >> Ditto that...am a dual citizen of Philippines and Spain...I think I'd get
> >> kicked outta here if I started protesting and getting really
> >>invovled...already
> >> got turned down to be a U.S. citizen (family's political involvement
> >>elsewhere
> >> I suspect)...just happy to have a greencard...you can say how the U.S.
> >>is lame
> >> and it sucks until you live somewhere else...an informed decision is the
> >>best
> >> decision...
> >
> >-->I _have_ lived somewhere else and I still think the U.S. is lame.  I
> >just like San Francisco, that's all. Believe me, I wouldn't want to be
> >stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or the MIdwest because I would
> >probably get lynched.
> 
> Hmm...remember the killings of an Asian girl (I think two) in Concord.
> What about the wonderful sex trade of teenage Asian girls here in wunnerful
> SF.  As for being lynched, the best lynchings have occured here of late,
> NOT in the south.  There are mor blacks in the south than out here in the
> west, and blacks, in general, have done well in the south.  I have few
> gripes with the South because out there, they call it as they see it, and
> don;t spend time dancing around issues.  You know if you're liked or
> disliked.  But in general, unlike here, people leave each other alone. 

-->Have you been to Concord?  Do you know what that place looks like?  I
don't think it's the safest place in the world.  YOu need to give more
details about the killings cause I don't know what you are trying to say;
was it proven they were killed because they were Asian, or was it just a
crime against women? The sex trade of Teenage asian children is centered
around Bangok (I think; somewhere around that area in any regard) and the
reason SF is involved is because SF has always been the "gate" to the
Pacific and the East...it's a question of demographics, not urban moral
decay. There are more blacks in the South because that's were all the
plantations used to be. And the reason lynchings in the South aren't as
visible is probably cause it is more common and most likely covered up
than out here.  I can't prove that assertion, true, but it is possible,
isn't it? 
	According to FBI reports, crimes against homosexuals is 12% of all
hate crimes, but SF accounts for 35% of those reported (written up by
the police as such) and Alabama 0%. You're not gonna tell me that there
are no hate crimes against gays in Alabama, now are you?
	What, it's okay to show racial hate and dislike in public?  I
don't think it's healthy to live in such an environment...to know that
half the population hates you cause your black/greeen/yellow/purple/
red/orange, and are able to verbally (if not physically) harass you with
impunity.  Yeah they call it like it is...kids call it like it is too;
look at his hare's lip, look at her braces, look at her limp, look at his
glasses, look at his funny nose, etc. etc. etc., but it still doesn't make
it more noble or admirable.
	Dancing around issues? Okay, PC-ness had gotten a bit out of
control, but if an asshole thinks that minorities are inferior he better
damn also know that it's not socially acceptable to believe that and
should feel more than just the guilt of trying to voice it in public,
cause he damn well knows there are going to be 20 people jumping on him if
he does.


> Now
> compare that to SF, who has just recently asked the courts to recind the
> order to desegregate the fire dept.  The police dept. of SF just got it's
> first FEMALE homocide detective.  Give me a break.  SF is a great place to
> be, but there are other places that are great as well.  SF seems on teh
> surface to be very, very, progressive, and there are things about it that
> are.  

--> SF is a _city_ and an urban sprawl.  Not only liberals and lefties and
pacifists and gays and lesbians and etc live here, but the total opposite
does too.  Like any city, it is a mosaic of residents that contribute to
its character, and to expect SF to be only one sided and on the Hippie
track is to underestimate the possibilites of the city. Of course there
are other great places in the world, but why are you here? If it was your
personal choice, then that's your answer right there, people have
different needs and expectations, but the city manages to steal most
visitors hearts within the very first few seconds and keep it too...not
many other places can claim that.


> So tell me how many all night parties you can legally attend in this
> wonderful liberal city, 2.  Compare that to a republican state like NY,
> where you literally can go all night.  

-->Answer me this: How big is NYC (I assume that's what you meant?)
compared to SF?  How much larger is the police force of NYC compared to
SF?  Does NYC share  California's legislation of a 2AM limit on alcohol
being served?  It's not only SF that practically goes to bed at 2AM, but
LA, and SD do too; it's statewide my friend.



> The best, maybe to some, to me this
> place has a long way to cathc up.  You can;t even have a beer outside in a
> cafe setting because of the restrictive ABC laws,  you can't even see some
> naked people and have a drink here in "liberal" SF.  Puhleeze.
> 

-->SF happens to be in the state of California, and even if certain
city ordinances allow for certain behaviour, I assume (I'm not a lawyer, I
wouldn't know for sure) state legislation overrides city legislation and
our lovable wonderful affable and oh so very liberal governor Pete Wilson
will allow Marijuana as a lunchtime option in high school caffeterias next
term.  SF might have the reputation as being liberal, but the more
populated and richer southern half of the state has a wee bit more pull.


> Rodney King happened here need I remind you, not in the South.

-->Rodney King happened in LA, not here, get your facts right. And if an
enterprising southerner ever learned how to use a camcorder once he can
afford it, he might be able to film something like that there too, but the
police would probably shoot him first. Okay, that was a low blow to all
southerners and I apologize, but LA is a hotbed of tension, and Rodney
King could have happened anywhere in the USA, it just happened to be
filmed in LA; like all your other television programs and movies :)


> 
> > You see, I am not European, i don't look European,
> >and even though I am more educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as
> >a European, and since the majority of US stock is still mostly European-
> >descendant I will get the shorter heavier end of the stick.
> 
> Victim mentality, it's up to you.  There are barriers, yes, but if you pool
> your money together, as many Asians do, anything is possible.  Blacks
> haven;t done this so we and Natives tend to be on the shortest end, Asians
> especially recent immigrants, do this and along with a great emphasis on
> education have done relatively well here in the States and in Cali
> especially.

-->It is not victim mentality, it is based on numerous personal
exxperience as well as the experiences from others. Did I ever say I
wouldn't succeed in life because I was Asian?  I don't ever recall saying
that, so why are you upraiding me for it? Don't make the mistake of
comparing cultures, it will only negate your argument and make you look
like a fool (honestly--not as an insult or as a joke, but as sound
advice).


> 
> >And since I
> >am an FoB from Vietnam and everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that
> >popular with veterans groups either.
> 
> Who cares?  Many vietnamese brothers I know start collectives, become
> entrprenuers, and stomp!  That's the program for success that many
> immigrant groups have used to get ahead.  Even Haitians in Fla. are doing
> so much better than the Indigenous Black population in Miami (where blacks
> have been for over 150 years).  The onyl barrier, it seems, for most recent
> emigres is the barriers of the mind.  Usually though it can be traversed
> via economics because here on this sorry asse rock called the USA, MOENY
> RULES!

-->That sentence was originally meant in irony by going overboard and
being melodramatic (see sig.) in addition to everyting else that was
being said in the passage, but since everyone seems to love it so much,
I guess I have to take it at face value too. Why do you keep mentioning
black trivia to me? Do you have a victim mentality?


> 
> >	Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the
> >citizenship exam and been through the sworn in process?
> 
> Being A citizen of New Mother Rome, I needed not take any entrance exams.
> Massah didn;t have time for all that crap, he needed us for work, and
> breeding.

-->Heh? Where is New Mother Rome, what are you talking about? Oh, you mean
slavery, didn't Abe Lincoln put that matter to rest already? (Irony alert)


> 
> >I did it when I
> >turned 18 (this is kinda funny, but for some reason both of my parents
> >became naturalized when I was still a minor, technically making me a
> >citizen too, but they forgot to declare me as their son--their only
> >child--on their paperwork...go figure) and after numerous years of
> >elementary, junior high, and high school American history indoctrination
> >my BS alarm was going super-balistic. I couldn't believe the list of possible
> >exam questions, it would have eliminated the whole state of Kentucky as
> >citizen material, at least. Too bad there weren't any questions about
> >killing Injuns or enslaving Blacks or interning Japanese-Americans in
> >concentration camps.
> 
> Sarcasm on:
> All that stuff?  C'mon, it happened a long time ago, who cares, it is what
> is going on now that counts.
> 
> Sarcasm off!
> 
> Sad that most Americans have such a short view, but you see, history has
> never been America's strong suit.  We're to busy re-writing it to pay
> attention to details, much less the truth.
> 

-->History repeats itself and you cannot rewrite history because it has
already happened (you can, however, reinterpret it; like so many do...for
better or worse). You lose the future to the past if you ignore history,
beware!



> >If that wasn't bad enough I almost gagged during the
> >swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last minute flight from SF to LA in
> >the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock of nationalist propaganda
> >shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and smelling apple pie with
> >visions of the American dream and the statue of liberty, of course...they
> >wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.
> 
> Your ingratitude shows.  If you hate this place so much why even bother.
> Was Vietnam better?
> 

-->Ingratitute at what?  That I am a human being born on this Earth to
live and try to function normally with happiness as a possible perk? We
are all of the same stuff, you and me, the grains and tears of stars from
that long ago explosion in space (misquoted from someone, I know) we are
no different in that respect, some just happen to tan better than others,
is that a cause for pain? I have every right to be here as the next person
because all of humanity originated someplace else besides here. You mean I
can't move from the projects to the 'burbs cause of my last name and some
fucked up zoning regulations?  That's bunk! 

> >	But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
> >passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
> >to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
> >bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.
> >	I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived
> >in Germany, I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have
> >also lived in freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout
> >price comparisons and informed decisions. And even though the USA is the
> >lesser evil, it's still got a long ways to go.
> 
> Agreed, but it's still better than any of those places.  Proof?  You're
> here and not at any of those locales.

-->That's what I said didn't I?


> 
> >
> >> I do what I can but I know the limits, living under marshal law is
> >> unpleasant to say the least...until you see people dying around you for no
> >> reason,
> >
> >-->What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
> >abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
> >It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
> >international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.
> 
> AIDS is a disease, for the most part, that can be totally prevented.  It is
> a disease of behaviour for the most part.
> 
> I agree with your assertions.

-->AIDS is more than a disease, it is a social catalyst that has far
reaching consequences.  What will happen when the 99.9% (exageration) of
Africa dies because the disease starts to become active?  It is marshal
law in the sense that you can't have a "normal" relationship with someone
with AIDS (cool down, let me explain) and live a life w/o anxiety. How do
you protect them from all the ignorance and fear still out there about the
disease?  How do you protect yourself? How do you deal when you have found
your soulmate just to know that you will lose them in countable moments?
How much more has sex been tainted from a normal biological act to one of
shame, fear, and possible death? Why do we have to protect ourselves from
death in the act of love? Ask yourself why AIDS is more than what it
appears to be. And if you don't worry about AIDS and you think you will
live forever because you are young and nothing can touch you, you are
fucked up in the head. (directed at everyone)


> 
> >
> >
> >> I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
> >> forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
> >> (imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
> >>
> >> DISCO 2000,
> >> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
> >>
> >
> >-->I'm not gonna say a single word about that one, not a single one, cuz
> >I've said plenty in previous threads about it already.
> >
> >
> >:)
> >M&m
> >
> >
> >PS	I think San Francisco has the best quality raves of all, and I'm
> >surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth off
> >so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time :)  Now does
> >that make it rave related?
> 
> So, when will the great SF allow all night parties?  This place ocould use
> some enemas too!

-->There are all-night parties happening all the time, check out the
underground.  I think SF uses a bit too many enemas if you ask me, but we
won't get into that...unless you want to :)

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 22:56:53 1998
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References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com> 		"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14  
 4:57pm) <Pine.GSO.3.96.980114165118.16938A-100000@shell> 	
 <v04003a01b0e3ff458b26@[207.93.14.13]> 	
 <34BE8D68.909DAD24@ix.netcom.com> 		<9801160125.ZM15640@well.com> 	
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:59:47 -0800
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))
Cc: Fred Heutte <phred@well.com>, Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
Precedence: bulk

At 8:30 PM -0800 1/16/98, Ray Vonie wrote:
>Phred, it sounds to me like you think: That promoters are useless amateur
>hustlers that lie, and exploit the ravers who are just a bunch of gullible
>sheep that waste their time in our adolescent scene which exists without
>purpose, and Bill Graham (whose company is about to stars strip-mining this
>scene) is some sort of role model.

Are you kidding?  First of all Fred knows what is up!  Next, EVERYONE WHO
DOES MASSIVES IS STRIP MINING THIS SCENE!

C'mon let's get very, very, real.  When you have money in the equation, it
eclipses everything else.  The second you have to worry about returns, is
the second your party has changed it's purpose.

Facts of life.

Fred also didn't hold Bill G up as a role model.  He was showing how anyone
with good intentions changes when money is involved.  I am no different,
and neither is anyone else.

Few are the warriors who are motivated by the good of the people.  For if
this paradigm wasn't true, everyone would be doing everything for free.

My .02 about my man, the properly right Rev. Fred!

And he ain't no White Boy either.

Peace,
john


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 23:34:33 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:34:17 EST
To: RaveOnSF@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: HEEEYYYLOWW!
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laugh :D
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 23:42:39 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:40:56 EST
To: andy@saturn5.com, goodvibe@geocities.com
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Subject: Re: What is a Ghetto Child?
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not this again.  Please, no this again.
me and my delete key will become best friends again, I guess.
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 17 23:46:24 1998
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To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Everyone pls read! Re:  !~raves and politics~!
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At 2:42 PM -0800 1/17/98, Minh Q. Le wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:
>
>> I am also tired of the "SF is the best place on earth, and the south sucks"
>> attitude:
>
>-->Well, that's because it's true, so there :)

You forgot IMHO.  To the homeless who have to deal with weather
circumstances, I am not sure, other than the generous nature of the people
here, that this place is the bomb.  Or the people who have been forcibly
relocated (hayes Valley Projects), or the elderly who have had the largest
number of move-in evictions in SF history.

Please, this place is what it is to the people who live here.  A heaven or
hell on earth, it depends on who you ask.

<snip>

>> >
>> >-->I _have_ lived somewhere else and I still think the U.S. is lame.  I
>> >just like San Francisco, that's all. Believe me, I wouldn't want to be
>> >stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or the MIdwest because I would
>> >probably get lynched.
>>
>> Hmm...remember the killings of an Asian girl (I think two) in Concord.
>> What about the wonderful sex trade of teenage Asian girls here in wunnerful
>> SF.  As for being lynched, the best lynchings have occured here of late,
>> NOT in the south.  There are mor blacks in the south than out here in the
>> west, and blacks, in general, have done well in the south.  I have few
>> gripes with the South because out there, they call it as they see it, and
>> don;t spend time dancing around issues.  You know if you're liked or
>> disliked.  But in general, unlike here, people leave each other alone.
>
>-->Have you been to Concord?

Yes.

>Do you know what that place looks like?

Yes.

>I
>don't think it's the safest place in the world.

No place really is.

>YOu need to give more
>details about the killings cause I don't know what you are trying to say;

Simple:  Racially motivated killings have occured here in Ca. and the bay
area along with other places.  Go get the Justice Departnets stats on Hate
Crimes '96.

Alos there was a lynching in Concord of a black man.  The person I am
talking of in Concord was killed on her way to a Bart station, a bullet to
the back of the head.  The same for one Asian man.  Of course, like the
lynching they have found nobody.  racially motivated?  I dunno, but every
state has it's shit, and for the record, the WEST is number one with all of
it's right wing activity and fanatics around.  BTW, hate crimes in the Gay
community was at a record high in 96 I beleive.  Right here in the Bay
Area.  Heaven on earth?  No it's just another place on earth, with it's own
problems.  No better or worse than the south.  The best place for you may
not be the bnest place for me.  FYI.

>was it proven they were killed because they were Asian, or was it just a
>crime against women? The sex trade of Teenage asian children is centered
>around Bangok (I think; somewhere around that area in any regard) and the
>reason SF is involved is because SF has always been the "gate" to the
>Pacific and the East...it's a question of demographics, not urban moral
>decay.

Fact:  There is a large amount of illegal sex trade in SF occuring with
young often Teenage Sex Slaves.  All the rest of that is minutea to the
fact that San Franciscans are perpetuating this by going to these illegal
sex slave dens.  this is happening here, not in Bangkok.  I know where it
comes from, that is not the point, where it is occurring IS the point.  SO
another mark against SF.

> There are more blacks in the South because that's were all the
>plantations used to be. And the reason lynchings in the South aren't as
>visible is probably cause it is more common and most likely covered up
>than out here.  I can't prove that assertion, true, but it is possible,
>isn't it?

Please.  There are more blacks in the south for a number of reasons, first
you discount the migration north, midwest, and the west.  You also have to
take into account the fact that MANY blacks are moving back to the South.
Why?  Racial and eceonomic conditoions are BETTER than those offered in the
west, midwest, and the northeast.  One reason why a city like Atlanta, run
almost entirely by blacks, but has a large white population is thriving.
And guess what , people get along.

Crime stats have CONSISTENTLY showed that the large number of crimes
against person occur WITHING the racial group.  Even in the south.  I am
from the South and don;t like anyone talking shit azbout the region of the
country that has gone through more shit than almost anywhere else.  Yes, it
is not perfect, but they have come much farther in race relations than
anywhere out here.  Let's not forget where 209 started!

Thanks.

>	According to FBI reports, crimes against homosexuals is 12% of all
>hate crimes, but SF accounts for 35% of those reported (written up by
>the police as such) and Alabama 0%. You're not gonna tell me that there
>are no hate crimes against gays in Alabama, now are you?

No, it does tell me that there are more hate crimes here against gays than
in Alabama though.  What is your point?

>	What, it's okay to show racial hate and dislike in public?

Here in Ca. it is considered "bad taste", in the South, it is considered
"bad taste" but people do it.  The difference with racism here is that
racism is often under the surface, whereas in the South it is in your face.
How do I like it?  Where I can see it!

>I
>don't think it's healthy to live in such an environment...to know that
>half the population hates you cause your black/greeen/yellow/purple/
>red/orange, and are able to verbally (if not physically) harass you with
>impunity.

I do not beleive this.  There are no facts toback up this assertion.

>Yeah they call it like it is...kids call it like it is too;
>look at his hare's lip, look at her braces, look at her limp, look at his
>glasses, look at his funny nose, etc. etc. etc., but it still doesn't make
>it more noble or admirable.

You point?

>	Dancing around issues? Okay, PC-ness had gotten a bit out of
>control, but if an asshole thinks that minorities are inferior he better
>damn also know that it's not socially acceptable to believe that and
>should feel more than just the guilt of trying to voice it in public,
>cause he damn well knows there are going to be 20 people jumping on him if
>he does.
>
>
>> Now
>> compare that to SF, who has just recently asked the courts to recind the
>> order to desegregate the fire dept.  The police dept. of SF just got it's
>> first FEMALE homocide detective.  Give me a break.  SF is a great place to
>> be, but there are other places that are great as well.  SF seems on teh
>> surface to be very, very, progressive, and there are things about it that
>> are.
>
>--> SF is a _city_ and an urban sprawl.

It is NOt an urban sprawl.  It cannot grow.  We are confined to a 49 square
mile space.

>Not only liberals and lefties and
>pacifists and gays and lesbians and etc live here, but the total opposite
>does too.

In the severe minority.

>  Like any city, it is a mosaic of residents that contribute to
>its character, and to expect SF to be only one sided and on the Hippie
>track is to underestimate the possibilites of the city.

I have seen some of the possibilites, and one of those is the massivce
gentrification.  That does not sit well with me, does it with you?

> Of course there
>are other great places in the world, but why are you here?

I like the views, the weather, the people, and the ladies.  I got my
wonderful lady, but I do love SF women, they are the absolute bomb!

>If it was your
>personal choice, then that's your answer right there, people have
>different needs and expectations, but the city manages to steal most
>visitors hearts within the very first few seconds and keep it too...not
>many other places can claim that.

Alot of places can claim that.  Miami, NY, Portand, Seattle to name a few.

>
>
>> So tell me how many all night parties you can legally attend in this
>> wonderful liberal city, 2.  Compare that to a republican state like NY,
>> where you literally can go all night.
>
>-->Answer me this: How big is NYC (I assume that's what you meant?)
>compared to SF?  How much larger is the police force of NYC compared to
>SF?  Does NYC share  California's legislation of a 2AM limit on alcohol
>being served?  It's not only SF that practically goes to bed at 2AM, but
>LA, and SD do too; it's statewide my friend.

Due to the restrictive nature of the laws I gurantee.  I copme from Miami
and they don;t have any of these dumb freedom limiting laws.  And that is
the South my friend.  You can drink when you want.

>
>
>
>> The best, maybe to some, to me this
>> place has a long way to cathc up.  You can;t even have a beer outside in a
>> cafe setting because of the restrictive ABC laws,  you can't even see some
>> naked people and have a drink here in "liberal" SF.  Puhleeze.
>>
>
>-->SF happens to be in the state of California, and even if certain
>city ordinances allow for certain behaviour, I assume (I'm not a lawyer, I
>wouldn't know for sure) state legislation overrides city legislation and
>our lovable wonderful affable and oh so very liberal governor Pete Wilson
>will allow Marijuana as a lunchtime option in high school caffeterias next
>term.  SF might have the reputation as being liberal, but the more
>populated and richer southern half of the state has a wee bit more pull.
>
>
>> Rodney King happened here need I remind you, not in the South.
>
>-->Rodney King happened in LA, not here, get your facts right. And if an
>enterprising southerner ever learned how to use a camcorder once he can
>afford it, he might be able to film something like that there too, but the
>police would probably shoot him first. Okay, that was a low blow to all
>southerners and I apologize, but LA is a hotbed of tension, and Rodney
>King could have happened anywhere in the USA, it just happened to be
>filmed in LA; like all your other television programs and movies :)

I was not talking about SF obviously I was talking about LA, fine what
about all the minorities that have died in SFPOD hands, like AAron
Williams?  I rest my case (and he is not the only one, some 13 people have
died in SFPD custody.  This wunnerful liberal city).

I love this place, but it has it serious problems and is like many of the
places you are afraid of becuase you might be lynched.  In a sense I have
more to worry about than you considering the stats.  Latinos and blacks are
under attack in this SF or some might say.  But I'm glad it's the bomb for
you.


>
>
>>
>> > You see, I am not European, i don't look European,
>> >and even though I am more educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as
>> >a European, and since the majority of US stock is still mostly European-
>> >descendant I will get the shorter heavier end of the stick.
>>
>> Victim mentality, it's up to you.  There are barriers, yes, but if you pool
>> your money together, as many Asians do, anything is possible.  Blacks
>> haven;t done this so we and Natives tend to be on the shortest end, Asians
>> especially recent immigrants, do this and along with a great emphasis on
>> education have done relatively well here in the States and in Cali
>> especially.
>
>-->It is not victim mentality, it is based on numerous personal
>exxperience as well as the experiences from others. Did I ever say I
>wouldn't succeed in life because I was Asian?  I don't ever recall saying
>that, so why are you upraiding me for it? Don't make the mistake of
>comparing cultures, it will only negate your argument and make you look
>like a fool (honestly--not as an insult or as a joke, but as sound
>advice).

Nope. All I am saying is that many groups FoB as you say pool thier money
and make it.  The only two groups who have not done so have been African
Americans and Native Americans.  Primarily because these two groups are not
immigrants and suffer from long standing hypocrisy of this govt.  You are
crying, or so it seems, because you're so called FoB.  Well the stats
indicate the "man" isn't keeping you down as much as you say.  Chinese make
95% on the dollar, Japanese make 90% on the dollar, Vietnamese make 90% on
the dollar.  Check the last census.

The only fool is the fool who cries victim about some "man" keeping him
down.  That is a victim mentality.  Take it froma descendant of slaves, it
takes you nowhere.

>
>
>>
>> >And since I
>> >am an FoB from Vietnam and everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that
>> >popular with veterans groups either.
>>
>> Who cares?  Many vietnamese brothers I know start collectives, become
>> entrprenuers, and stomp!  That's the program for success that many
>> immigrant groups have used to get ahead.  Even Haitians in Fla. are doing
>> so much better than the Indigenous Black population in Miami (where blacks
>> have been for over 150 years).  The onyl barrier, it seems, for most recent
>> emigres is the barriers of the mind.  Usually though it can be traversed
>> via economics because here on this sorry asse rock called the USA, MOENY
>> RULES!
>
>-->That sentence was originally meant in irony by going overboard and
>being melodramatic (see sig.) in addition to everyting else that was
>being said in the passage, but since everyone seems to love it so much,
>I guess I have to take it at face value too. Why do you keep mentioning
>black trivia to me? Do you have a victim mentality?

Trivia?  Facts.

>
>
>>
>> >	Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the
>> >citizenship exam and been through the sworn in process?
>>
>> Being A citizen of New Mother Rome, I needed not take any entrance exams.
>> Massah didn;t have time for all that crap, he needed us for work, and
>> breeding.
>
>-->Heh? Where is New Mother Rome, what are you talking about? Oh, you mean
>slavery, didn't Abe Lincoln put that matter to rest already? (Irony alert)

I have always said that America is like the Great Roman Empire (the empire
I admire the most BTW, see the archives).  I beleive she is blossoming into
her full glory.  Now since I have some income,I will certainly entertain
and enjoy myself.  That is unitl she crumbles like the sister before her.

>
>
>>
>> >I did it when I
>> >turned 18 (this is kinda funny, but for some reason both of my parents
>> >became naturalized when I was still a minor, technically making me a
>> >citizen too, but they forgot to declare me as their son--their only
>> >child--on their paperwork...go figure) and after numerous years of
>> >elementary, junior high, and high school American history indoctrination
>> >my BS alarm was going super-balistic. I couldn't believe the list of
>>possible
>> >exam questions, it would have eliminated the whole state of Kentucky as
>> >citizen material, at least. Too bad there weren't any questions about
>> >killing Injuns or enslaving Blacks or interning Japanese-Americans in
>> >concentration camps.
>>
>> Sarcasm on:
>> All that stuff?  C'mon, it happened a long time ago, who cares, it is what
>> is going on now that counts.
>>
>> Sarcasm off!
>>
>> Sad that most Americans have such a short view, but you see, history has
>> never been America's strong suit.  We're to busy re-writing it to pay
>> attention to details, much less the truth.
>>
>
>-->History repeats itself and you cannot rewrite history because it has
>already happened (you can, however, reinterpret it; like so many do...for
>better or worse). You lose the future to the past if you ignore history,
>beware!

The winner always re-write history.  The truth surfaces I agree.

>
>
>
>> >If that wasn't bad enough I almost gagged during the
>> >swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last minute flight from SF to LA in
>> >the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock of nationalist propaganda
>> >shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and smelling apple pie with
>> >visions of the American dream and the statue of liberty, of course...they
>> >wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.
>>
>> Your ingratitude shows.  If you hate this place so much why even bother.
>> Was Vietnam better?
>>
>
>-->Ingratitute at what?  That I am a human being born on this Earth to
>live and try to function normally with happiness as a possible perk? We
>are all of the same stuff, you and me, the grains and tears of stars from
>that long ago explosion in space (misquoted from someone, I know) we are
>no different in that respect, some just happen to tan better than others,
>is that a cause for pain? I have every right to be here as the next person
>because all of humanity originated someplace else besides here. You mean I
>can't move from the projects to the 'burbs cause of my last name and some
>fucked up zoning regulations?  That's bunk!

I'm sorry, you must be living a Star Trek existence.  I live in America
which resides on planet earth.  We have rules here as a nation.  If you
cannot abide by these rules you can leave orbe incarcerated.  If this place
was such a dump why the big fight to join it's ranks and vote in it's
election.  The earth citizen doesn't exist yet.  You're far ahead of your
time.  Your right to be here ends where the govt. says it ends.  Sad but
true.  But do';t slam this place while at the same time fighting to get in.
It's the height of hypocrisy.

>
>> >	But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
>> >passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
>> >to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
>> >bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.
>> >	I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived
>> >in Germany, I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have
>> >also lived in freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout
>> >price comparisons and informed decisions. And even though the USA is the
>> >lesser evil, it's still got a long ways to go.
>>
>> Agreed, but it's still better than any of those places.  Proof?  You're
>> here and not at any of those locales.
>
>-->That's what I said didn't I?

Then why bag on the ritual to join?  It's the price all immigrants pay.  So
pay up, shut up, and participate (at which time you can slam the hell out
of it, but not while fighting to become a citizen...we got enough upstarts!
;) ).

>
>
>>
>> >
>> >> I do what I can but I know the limits, living under marshal law is
>> >> unpleasant to say the least...until you see people dying around you
>>for no
>> >> reason,
>> >
>> >-->What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
>> >abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
>> >It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
>> >international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.
>>
>> AIDS is a disease, for the most part, that can be totally prevented.  It is
>> a disease of behaviour for the most part.
>>
>> I agree with your assertions.
>
>-->AIDS is more than a disease, it is a social catalyst that has far
>reaching consequences.  What will happen when the 99.9% (exageration) of
>Africa dies because the disease starts to become active?

The WHO has often been cited as being wrong with it's asserttion.  People
die in Africa they call it aids, people die of pestilence, they call it
AIDS, people die of starvation, they call it AIDS.  Fact gathering in that
region is haphazard at best.


>It is marshal
>law in the sense that you can't have a "normal" relationship with someone
>with AIDS (cool down, let me explain) and live a life w/o anxiety. How do
>you protect them from all the ignorance and fear still out there about the
>disease?  How do you protect yourself?

Don't have sex.

> How do you deal when you have found
>your soulmate just to know that you will lose them in countable moments?

Terrible.

>How much more has sex been tainted from a normal biological act to one of
>shame, fear, and possible death?

If it was purely A biologival act, we wouldn;t have AIDS.  SInce it is much
more than that, we pay the consequences.  Something about the sins of the
father...

> Why do we have to protect ourselves from
>death in the act of love?

Because love unbridled kills.  Anything unbridled kills.  Ask any of the
dead Ceasars.

>Ask yourself why AIDS is more than what it
>appears to be. And if you don't worry about AIDS and you think you will
>live forever because you are young and nothing can touch you, you are
>fucked up in the head. (directed at everyone)


I am not fucked up because I am in a monogomous relationship and that's
pretty much it.  I won;t get aids because I don;t fuck around.  I don't do
any ricky behaviour so, I am safe.  That is until I get into an accident
and I get bad blood...
>
>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
>> >> forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
>> >> (imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
>> >>
>> >> DISCO 2000,
>> >> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >-->I'm not gonna say a single word about that one, not a single one, cuz
>> >I've said plenty in previous threads about it already.
>> >
>> >
>> >:)
>> >M&m
>> >
>> >
>> >PS	I think San Francisco has the best quality raves of all, and I'm
>> >surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth off
>> >so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time :)  Now does
>> >that make it rave related?
>>
>> So, when will the great SF allow all night parties?  This place ocould use
>> some enemas too!
>
>-->There are all-night parties happening all the time, check out the
>underground.  I think SF uses a bit too many enemas if you ask me, but we
>won't get into that...unless you want to :)

Coffee, tea, or hot boiling water...ohhh the relief! :)

>
>:)
>M&m

Peace,
John


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 00:48:20 1998
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                                              check website for upcoming
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M.U.T.A.N.T. theater----------in cooperation with Art Developement Church
                                               every sunday afternoon from
1pm--? @973 Minna
                                                san francisco////an open
forum for live muzik--art---

performance--communication...admission is free...
                                                   all ages-----if you want
to be involved, email us...
                                                     or just show up.......

FULL ON MANIACAL TEKNO PARTY!!!!!!-----------january 23  9pm--??? @ Nidus space

17th and Capp , san francisco

w/dj's and livesets from S.P.A.Z. and

Spiral Tribe........

all night ,all ages  $5


                    spaz@hyperreal.org             www.hyperreal.org/~spaz/




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 00:48:50 1998
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  Hey, I've got a cool idea. Let's spend the whole weekend getting angry
about racial shit. We can even throw a "Get Angry About Racial Shit"
party! It'll be the bomb.


                                                         (
                                                           www
                                                            .
                                                         bowkett
                                                            .
                                                           com
                                                               )





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 00:52:09 1998
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anyone recognise this track from my vague descipt?:

female vocal w/ 303 line running through it with following quotables:

"earth radiating through time and space..."

"...you are becoming aware of yourself as game master"

"...goddess earth..."

sorry for the lack of eloquence in my recollection.  however, if you've
got the record, then i'm sure it's enough for a + id.

thanx,
n8


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 00:55:01 1998
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From: Nathan John Blumberg <cm2@cats.ucsc.edu>
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Subject: HIYA!  This's bout pants.
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Hiya,
	I'm new & just saying hi....  but I had a question.  I fell in 
love with a pair of pants at origin(sigh)... maybe some of you saw 
them... they had flashing blue light bars down each side in synch.  
Anyway, if anyone has any ideas on where I should look to make/buy a pair
I would be grateful.
	On another note... my friends might ditch me on the 23rd... 
Anyone have any idea if Love is gunna be more like happy kids or origin? 
(I spent new years on the street *cry*, but I got to dance YAY!) Later, 
Love,

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 03:57:17 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:55:21 -0800
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Subject: have fun all of you at planet rock and T&J
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i wanted to wish everyone going to any party a good time tonight.  dance
for me please :)

be safe and responsible.  no running with lollipops ;)

love,
Megan         Czefir

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 06:26:13 1998
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Subject: Re:  track id 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 98 16:52:54 PST."
             <34C15264.BCF27911@earthlink.net> 
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 98 22:26:05 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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> anyone recognise this track from my vague descipt?:
>
> female vocal w/ 303 line running through it with following quotables:
> 
> "earth radiating through time and space..."
> 
> "...you are becoming aware of yourself as game master"
> 
> "...goddess earth..."
> 
> sorry for the lack of eloquence in my recollection.  however, if you've
> got the record, then i'm sure it's enough for a + id.

I have this track on a 3CD compilation called "introspective of house"
from SOund Dimensions, UK. the track is called "the gamemaster" and
it's on a disk DJ'd by  DJ Sonique. It's a pretty cheez track, if you
ask me.

Unfortunately, I can't remember the artist, and I'm up in Tahoe right
now (skiing tomorrow).

If nobody else gives you the name of the artist, remind me and i'll
look it up when i'm home w/ my cd collection.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 06:29:05 1998
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To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: another song Id
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 98 22:29:00 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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it's a drum and bass track; the vocal is a sample of the lead singer
from the punk/new-wave group PERE UBU's lead singer CROCUS BEHEMOTH aka
david thomas (i think that's his name). He's got this high pitched,
strange way of singing, and I swear i heard a "jungle" track that had
his vocals throughtout the song. i cannot make out what the hell he's
saying tho.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3

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=RUx1
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 07:42:59 1998
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	Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:42:49 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:42:49 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Reply-To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
cc: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Everyone pls read! Re:  !~raves and politics~!
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:

> At 2:42 PM -0800 1/17/98, Minh Q. Le wrote:
> >On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:
> >
> >> I am also tired of the "SF is the best place on earth, and the south sucks"
> >> attitude:
> >
> >-->Well, that's because it's true, so there :)
> 
> You forgot IMHO.  To the homeless who have to deal with weather
> circumstances, I am not sure, other than the generous nature of the people
> here, that this place is the bomb.  Or the people who have been forcibly
> relocated (hayes Valley Projects), or the elderly who have had the largest
> number of move-in evictions in SF history.

-->I sympathize with the homeless, but the winters here are not all that
bad in relation to the rest of the nation. And if they (or anyone) truly
wanted to get out of this place they could...Greyhound isn't that
expensive.  Hell, there are still some trains operating that could be
"hitched". What, like no other city has been accused of forcibly
relocating people in low income areas? Yeah, that sucks about the elderly,
but that is due to society in a ways, cause their children and relatives
should have been obligated to help out and prevent such a thing from
happening.



> 
> Please, this place is what it is to the people who live here.  A heaven or
> hell on earth, it depends on who you ask.
> 

-->I agree, but I still opine that if someone truly hated SF they are able
to go somewhere else.  If this city were my living hell, I wouldn't be
here unless I had to for the shortest amount of time possible and then jet
on the first ticket out. Not every bad situation is permanent, especially
something as minor as were you live (compared to everything else). It's
not like we are living in a 1940's German attitude and there is a SF
ghetto and you are not allowed to leave at your own free will.


> <snip>
> 
> >> >
> >> >-->I _have_ lived somewhere else and I still think the U.S. is lame.  I
> >> >just like San Francisco, that's all. Believe me, I wouldn't want to be
> >> >stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or the MIdwest because I would
> >> >probably get lynched.
> >>
> >> Hmm...remember the killings of an Asian girl (I think two) in Concord.
> >> What about the wonderful sex trade of teenage Asian girls here in wunnerful
> >> SF.  As for being lynched, the best lynchings have occured here of late,
> >> NOT in the south.  There are mor blacks in the south than out here in the
> >> west, and blacks, in general, have done well in the south.  I have few
> >> gripes with the South because out there, they call it as they see it, and
> >> don;t spend time dancing around issues.  You know if you're liked or
> >> disliked.  But in general, unlike here, people leave each other alone.
> >
> >-->Have you been to Concord?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> >Do you know what that place looks like?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> >I
> >don't think it's the safest place in the world.
> 
> No place really is.

-->True, but it varies in degrees, and I think Concord is worse than say,
Noe Valley or Claremont.



> 
> >YOu need to give more
> >details about the killings cause I don't know what you are trying to say;
> 
> Simple:  Racially motivated killings have occured here in Ca. and the bay
> area along with other places.  Go get the Justice Departnets stats on Hate
> Crimes '96.

-->Like they happen in every other state in the nation, you can't single
out California out for that alone. And since CAlifornia is the most
populated state of the nation and probably the most diverse, racial
tension will most likely result in some areas.


> 
> Alos there was a lynching in Concord of a black man.  The person I am
> talking of in Concord was killed on her way to a Bart station, a bullet to
> the back of the head.  The same for one Asian man.  Of course, like the
> lynching they have found nobody.  racially motivated?  I dunno, but every
> state has it's shit, and for the record, the WEST is number one with all of
> it's right wing activity and fanatics around.  BTW, hate crimes in the Gay
> community was at a record high in 96 I beleive.  Right here in the Bay
> Area.  Heaven on earth?  No it's just another place on earth, with it's own
> problems.  No better or worse than the south.  The best place for you may
> not be the bnest place for me.  FYI.

-->You can point the finger and call it a racial hate crime, but what were
the motives: opposing gangs, personal vendettas, coincidence, what?  It's
not like someone goes out one night and decides that they are going to
shoot the first Asian they see because they don't like Asians. Do you know
why the rates are so high in the West and not in the South?  Because the
police are receptive to the idea that hate crimes against minorities is
possible and deserve to be reported as such.  This in turn encourages
victims to report such crimes.  I don't think the police in the South are
as broad minded or receptive. Case in point: rape...women used to be
accussed of initiating rape by behaviour, dress, whatever; it wasn't the
rapists fault, it was the woman's fault for making the rapist horny. In
that type of atmosphere why do you think the statistics for rape weren't
as high as they are today?  Cause no victim wants to go to the police
station to report a crime when they know the cops aren't gonna sympathize
but actually blame it all on the victim. That would also explain why there
are more gay hate crimes reported in SF than in the South or the rest of
the US for that matter.


> 
> >was it proven they were killed because they were Asian, or was it just a
> >crime against women? The sex trade of Teenage asian children is centered
> >around Bangok (I think; somewhere around that area in any regard) and the
> >reason SF is involved is because SF has always been the "gate" to the
> >Pacific and the East...it's a question of demographics, not urban moral
> >decay.
> 
> Fact:  There is a large amount of illegal sex trade in SF occuring with
> young often Teenage Sex Slaves.  All the rest of that is minutea to the
> fact that San Franciscans are perpetuating this by going to these illegal
> sex slave dens.  this is happening here, not in Bangkok.  I know where it
> comes from, that is not the point, where it is occurring IS the point.  SO
> another mark against SF.
>

-->Oh stop the high and moral attitude, like worse stuff doesn't happen in
the South. And the way your sentence is structured, it seems as if you are
saying all San Franiscans patronize these places when in  fact it is only
a select few that do. I agree that it is a problem, but it is more of a
problem in the sense that this is a national if not international problem
and the relevant law enforcement agencies should be busting these places
more often than they do. And what if a person is 19 and they get turned on
by being a sex slave and their master is 21 years old?  Do your high moral
standards deem them as revolting and perverted and in deservance of the
death penalty, even though they are consenting adults?


> 
> > There are more blacks in the South because that's were all the
> >plantations used to be. And the reason lynchings in the South aren't as
> >visible is probably cause it is more common and most likely covered up
> >than out here.  I can't prove that assertion, true, but it is possible,
> >isn't it?
> 
> Please.  There are more blacks in the south for a number of reasons, first
> you discount the migration north, midwest, and the west.  You also have to
> take into account the fact that MANY blacks are moving back to the South.
> Why?  Racial and eceonomic conditoions are BETTER than those offered in the
> west, midwest, and the northeast.  One reason why a city like Atlanta, run
> almost entirely by blacks, but has a large white population is thriving.
> And guess what , people get along.
> 

-->I do not discount the migrations from the south, but I do not feel they
were large enough to truly change the demographics. But the very most
important reason why there are so many blacks in the south is due to the
fact that these were the slave owning states that based their economy on
forced man labor and traded in this human cartel. You can't deny this fact
and everything else is just gonna lead back to this fact. If the northeast
had the plantations instead of the south I am sure it would be the same.




> Crime stats have CONSISTENTLY showed that the large number of crimes
> against person occur WITHING the racial group.  Even in the south.  I am
> from the South and don;t like anyone talking shit azbout the region of the
> country that has gone through more shit than almost anywhere else.  Yes, it
> is not perfect, but they have come much farther in race relations than
> anywhere out here.  Let's not forget where 209 started!

-->Maybe the reason they have come so far in race relations is due to the
sole fact that they had so far to go in the first place compared to every
other region; thus it was easier to see the improvement. Were was it again
that the national guard had to forcibly desegregate the schools in the
60's ?


> 
> Thanks.
> 
> >	According to FBI reports, crimes against homosexuals is 12% of all
> >hate crimes, but SF accounts for 35% of those reported (written up by
> >the police as such) and Alabama 0%. You're not gonna tell me that there
> >are no hate crimes against gays in Alabama, now are you?
> 
> No, it does tell me that there are more hate crimes here against gays than
> in Alabama though.  What is your point?
> 

-->That wasn't my point and you chose to misinterpret it as such.  My
point is that the two regions might share the same stats concerning hate
crimes against gays (unlikely since SF has a larger visible homosexual
population than any city in Alabama), but the gays in SF feel more secure
in reporting such crimes to the police here than a gay in Alabama would,
and if a gay in Alabama does happen to report the crime, will the police
acknowledge the fact as a hate crime or reclassify it as a petty breaking
and entering or random mugging?



> >	What, it's okay to show racial hate and dislike in public?
> 
> Here in Ca. it is considered "bad taste", in the South, it is considered
> "bad taste" but people do it.  The difference with racism here is that
> racism is often under the surface, whereas in the South it is in your face.
> How do I like it?  Where I can see it!
> 

-->Yeah, that's the difference all right.  People in the south still do it
not because of Nike but because it is still socially acceptable. 
	It depends in how and where you grew up. I don't deny racism's
existence in California, but I am used to it being invisble and when I am
in a situation where it is so out and accepted it makes me paranoid and
uncomfortable...maybe it's because I haven't built up enough defensive
shields to ward it off; but that's how it should be, a person should not
be forced to live with fear or hard defensive shields.


> >I
> >don't think it's healthy to live in such an environment...to know that
> >half the population hates you cause your black/greeen/yellow/purple/
> >red/orange, and are able to verbally (if not physically) harass you with
> >impunity.
> 
> I do not beleive this.  There are no facts toback up this assertion.
> 

-->It's based on my personal experience and I extrapolated it into a
logical hypothesis. I would like to think that experience is one of my
teachers and that's where I stand in the issue of hidden racism versus
open racism (check the archives). Racism will exist for a very long time
and most likely during all of this generation's existence and I choose to
live in a situation where I am afforded the "luxury" of occassionaly
forgetting about its presence.


> >Yeah they call it like it is...kids call it like it is too;
> >look at his hare's lip, look at her braces, look at her limp, look at his
> >glasses, look at his funny nose, etc. etc. etc., but it still doesn't make
> >it more noble or admirable.
> 
> You point?
> 

-->Check your original post, it's a direct reply to one of your
statements. Ask me again if you still don't get it.


> >
> >
> >> Now
> >> compare that to SF, who has just recently asked the courts to recind the
> >> order to desegregate the fire dept.  The police dept. of SF just got it's
> >> first FEMALE homocide detective.  Give me a break.  SF is a great place to
> >> be, but there are other places that are great as well.  SF seems on teh
> >> surface to be very, very, progressive, and there are things about it that
> >> are.
> >
> >--> SF is a _city_ and an urban sprawl.
> 
> It is NOt an urban sprawl.  It cannot grow.  We are confined to a 49 square
> mile space.

-->It is an urban sprawl because the whole Bay Area is defined by the
cultural presence of San Francisco just like LA is the hub of LA county
and outlying parts just as NYC is the defining force of its own region.
Just because the peninsula is named San Francisco doesn't mean that
Sausalito and Oakland aren't part of it; that's how San Francisco grew.


> 
> >Not only liberals and lefties and
> >pacifists and gays and lesbians and etc live here, but the total opposite
> >does too.
> 
> In the severe minority.

-->Where are your stats to back-up that statement?


> 
> >  Like any city, it is a mosaic of residents that contribute to
> >its character, and to expect SF to be only one sided and on the Hippie
> >track is to underestimate the possibilites of the city.
> 
> I have seen some of the possibilites, and one of those is the massivce
> gentrification.  That does not sit well with me, does it with you?
> 

-->I have problems with gentrification too, but it really is a city trying
to reclaim parts of itself that have fallen into disrepair, disuse, and
disrepute. A city in many ways resembles a living organism and waxes and
wanes and alot of other things as well...we are just the separate cells
within a larger more complex organism. Putting the ethical arguments 
aside, gentrification enlivens a once "dead" appendage and rejoins it into
the general life and circulation of a city. The main factor is, of course,
a question of money, but that's the hemoglobin of this particular
organism; cut it and its blood will run green.


> > Of course there
> >are other great places in the world, but why are you here?
> 
> I like the views, the weather, the people, and the ladies.  I got my
> wonderful lady, but I do love SF women, they are the absolute bomb!
> 
> >If it was your
> >personal choice, then that's your answer right there, people have
> >different needs and expectations, but the city manages to steal most
> >visitors hearts within the very first few seconds and keep it too...not
> >many other places can claim that.
> 
> Alot of places can claim that.  Miami, NY, Portand, Seattle to name a few.
> 

-->I've been to NYC and it didn't impress me that much, if at all. As for
Portland or Seattle, I think I would be more impressed by Vancouver (one
stop on my long itinerary of life). As for Miami, I would rather see
Habana or New Orleans (another stop to claim...soon). However, that's just
my personal preferance and of all the people I have spoken to (quite a few
I might add), the general consensus is that SF is usually held in a
positive light...with exceptions of course; after all, the city isn't for
everyone.

> >
> >
> >> So tell me how many all night parties you can legally attend in this
> >> wonderful liberal city, 2.  Compare that to a republican state like NY,
> >> where you literally can go all night.
> >
> >-->Answer me this: How big is NYC (I assume that's what you meant?)
> >compared to SF?  How much larger is the police force of NYC compared to
> >SF?  Does NYC share  California's legislation of a 2AM limit on alcohol
> >being served?  It's not only SF that practically goes to bed at 2AM, but
> >LA, and SD do too; it's statewide my friend.
> 
> Due to the restrictive nature of the laws I gurantee.  I copme from Miami
> and they don;t have any of these dumb freedom limiting laws.  And that is
> the South my friend.  You can drink when you want.
> 

-->The south never has had problems with access to alcohol if I recall,
but does it ever stop drinking moonshine, hmmmm?  Again, this is a
question of state legislation and does not have relevance to our
discussion of SF because it is not possible for the city to serve past
2AM (and I am sure it would love to; ask any bar owner)--it's out of the
city's hands. SF is liberal in a sense, yes, but the whole state of
California isn't, get it?


>> >> >>Rodney King happened here, not in the south.
>
> >-->Rodney King happened in LA, not here, get your facts right. And if an
> >enterprising southerner ever learned how to use a camcorder once he can
> >afford it, he might be able to film something like that there too, but the
> >police would probably shoot him first. Okay, that was a low blow to all
> >southerners and I apologize, but LA is a hotbed of tension, and Rodney
> >King could have happened anywhere in the USA, it just happened to be
> >filmed in LA; like all your other television programs and movies :)
> 
> I was not talking about SF obviously I was talking about LA, fine what
> about all the minorities that have died in SFPOD hands, like AAron
> Williams?  I rest my case (and he is not the only one, some 13 people have
> died in SFPD custody.  This wunnerful liberal city).
> 

-->Alot of people die in police custody all over the USA and the world, so
what's your point?



> I love this place, but it has it serious problems and is like many of the
> places you are afraid of becuase you might be lynched.  In a sense I have
> more to worry about than you considering the stats.  Latinos and blacks are
> under attack in this SF or some might say.  But I'm glad it's the bomb for
> you.


-->That's true, but I would rather take my chances here then there
concerning the historical basis of lynching within regions of the US.



> 
> 
> >
> >
> >>
> >> > You see, I am not European, i don't look European,
> >> >and even though I am more educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as
> >> >a European, and since the majority of US stock is still mostly European-
> >> >descendant I will get the shorter heavier end of the stick.
> >>
> >> Victim mentality, it's up to you.  There are barriers, yes, but if you pool
> >> your money together, as many Asians do, anything is possible.  Blacks
> >> haven;t done this so we and Natives tend to be on the shortest end, Asians
> >> especially recent immigrants, do this and along with a great emphasis on
> >> education have done relatively well here in the States and in Cali
> >> especially.
> >
> >-->It is not victim mentality, it is based on numerous personal
> >exxperience as well as the experiences from others. Did I ever say I
> >wouldn't succeed in life because I was Asian?  I don't ever recall saying
> >that, so why are you upraiding me for it? Don't make the mistake of
> >comparing cultures, it will only negate your argument and make you look
> >like a fool (honestly--not as an insult or as a joke, but as sound
> >advice).
> 
> Nope. All I am saying is that many groups FoB as you say pool thier money
> and make it.  The only two groups who have not done so have been African
> Americans and Native Americans.  Primarily because these two groups are not
> immigrants and suffer from long standing hypocrisy of this govt.  You are
> crying, or so it seems, because you're so called FoB.  Well the stats
> indicate the "man" isn't keeping you down as much as you say.  Chinese make
> 95% on the dollar, Japanese make 90% on the dollar, Vietnamese make 90% on
> the dollar.  Check the last census.

-->Check the other post I posted to steve (damn funny, I think--so read it
with humor, not anger) about the "so called FoB" thing. I am not crying
because I am an FoB, I am proud to be an FoB and get offended when people
use it in a derogatory way because they are putting me down as well.
People have preconceived ideas about me all the time, and they need to
understand that I am an FoB because it is such a strong positive part of
my character. I remember the jokes in my high school about FoB's on
campus and I was rather insulted because these jokes were from my
Vietnamese aquaintances that were born here and they thought I  shared
their elitist views...they didn't understand why I was offended after I
explained it to them; "...your not one of them" and all that shite too--
go figure.
	 I am not saying that the "man" is keeping me down, but don't you
think it's unsettling that most minorities only make partial percentages
on the dollar instead of the whole thing?  Is human labor so very
different coming from a chicano than from a european?



> 
> The only fool is the fool who cries victim about some "man" keeping him
> down.  That is a victim mentality.  Take it froma descendant of slaves, it
> takes you nowhere.
> 

-->I am only trying to make people aware that a double standard exists and
it affects everybody.  I am trying to lend a net-face to a phenomenon and
trying to claim it from the eschelons of political argument to the toils
of real life (isn't it ironic that I'm saying this on the net and haven't
even met most of you out there :) I fight for myself cause I look out for
#1, nobody is gonna keep me down but myself, and that's from the school of
hard knocks.
	Why is the fool a fool when the fool is obviously a victim and
stating the fact? Is it that obvious? Does the rest of America think that
minorities and immigrants are equals of natives and whites and don't get
discriminated against? What America are you living in? Victim mentality is
bullshit, who thought that crap up? Obviously someone who has never been
in a subservient position for an extended amount of time.  It's not like
the CEO of Ford is gonna hold a press conference saying that he was being
held hostage by the labour unions. 
	I don't have a "victim-mentality" because I wouldn't tolerate such
a situation if I could.  So now you're gonna bandy your favorite term
around and accuse me of weakness because I feel like exposing hypocrisy
for what it is?

> >
> >
> >>
> >> >And since I
> >> >am an FoB from Vietnam and everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that
> >> >popular with veterans groups either.
> >>
> >> Who cares?  Many vietnamese brothers I know start collectives, become
> >> entrprenuers, and stomp!  That's the program for success that many
> >> immigrant groups have used to get ahead.  Even Haitians in Fla. are doing
> >> so much better than the Indigenous Black population in Miami (where blacks
> >> have been for over 150 years).  The onyl barrier, it seems, for most recent
> >> emigres is the barriers of the mind.  Usually though it can be traversed
> >> via economics because here on this sorry asse rock called the USA, MOENY
> >> RULES!
> >
> >-->That sentence was originally meant in irony by going overboard and
> >being melodramatic (see sig.) in addition to everyting else that was
> >being said in the passage, but since everyone seems to love it so much,
> >I guess I have to take it at face value too. Why do you keep mentioning
> >black trivia to me? Do you have a victim mentality?
> 
> Trivia?  Facts.

-->Facts, but trivia nontheless--just like Jeopardy and trivial pursuit
and all of them; "what indigenous population in Miami has been present 
there for over 150 years?" "What US immigrant population hasn't been
successful due to the lack of money pooling for business ventures?"
etc. 


> >>
> >> >	Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the
> >> >citizenship exam and been through the sworn in process?
> >>
> >> Being A citizen of New Mother Rome, I needed not take any entrance exams.
> >> Massah didn;t have time for all that crap, he needed us for work, and
> >> breeding.
> >
> >-->Heh? Where is New Mother Rome, what are you talking about? Oh, you mean
> >slavery, didn't Abe Lincoln put that matter to rest already? (Irony alert)
> 
> I have always said that America is like the Great Roman Empire (the empire
> I admire the most BTW, see the archives).  I beleive she is blossoming into
> her full glory.  Now since I have some income,I will certainly entertain
> and enjoy myself.  That is unitl she crumbles like the sister before her.
> 

-->I hold the opposite view. I think America is approaching its decline.
I don't think the Roman Empire was that great either. To every their own
opinions.



<snip>
> >> >If that wasn't bad enough I almost gagged during the
> >> >swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last minute flight from SF to LA in
> >> >the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock of nationalist propaganda
> >> >shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and smelling apple pie with
> >> >visions of the American dream and the statue of liberty, of course...they
> >> >wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.
> >>
> >> Your ingratitude shows.  If you hate this place so much why even bother.
> >> Was Vietnam better?
> >>
> >
> >-->Ingratitute at what?  That I am a human being born on this Earth to

> >live and try to function normally with happiness as a possible perk? We
> >are all of the same stuff, you and me, the grains and tears of stars from
> >that long ago explosion in space (misquoted from someone, I know) we are
> >no different in that respect, some just happen to tan better than others,
> >is that a cause for pain? I have every right to be here as the next person
> >because all of humanity originated someplace else besides here. You mean I
> >can't move from the projects to the 'burbs cause of my last name and some
> >fucked up zoning regulations?  That's bunk!
> 
> I'm sorry, you must be living a Star Trek existence.  I live in America
> which resides on planet earth.  We have rules here as a nation.  If you
> cannot abide by these rules you can leave orbe incarcerated.  If this place
> was such a dump why the big fight to join it's ranks and vote in it's
> election.  The earth citizen doesn't exist yet.  You're far ahead of your
> time.  Your right to be here ends where the govt. says it ends.  Sad but
> true.  But do';t slam this place while at the same time fighting to get in.
> It's the height of hypocrisy.
> 

-->I didn't know Star Trek had a monopoly on literary quotes. I must not
be very well read then. No, the height of hypocrisy is the Gov't and the
propaganda that passes for lower education. I am not fighting to get in,
I am already here. I know I am far ahead of my time...I am Aquarius after
all. I and everyone on this world is an earth citizen; that's how it
should be.  I am just pointing out the shortcomings of nationalism and
patriotism.


> >
> >> >	But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
> >> >passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
> >> >to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
> >> >bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.
> >> >	I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived
> >> >in Germany, I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have
> >> >also lived in freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout
> >> >price comparisons and informed decisions. And even though the USA is the
> >> >lesser evil, it's still got a long ways to go.
> >>
> >> Agreed, but it's still better than any of those places.  Proof?  You're
> >> here and not at any of those locales.
> >
> >-->That's what I said didn't I?
> 
> Then why bag on the ritual to join?  It's the price all immigrants pay.  So
> pay up, shut up, and participate (at which time you can slam the hell out
> of it, but not while fighting to become a citizen...we got enough upstarts!
> ;) ).
> 

-->The ritual to join is condescending and patronizing. I don't think it
is necessary to give up one's integrity to join the club...that's why I am
against the greek system on university campuses as well.



> >
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> I do what I can but I know the limits, living under marshal law is
> >> >> unpleasant to say the least...until you see people dying around you
> >>for no
> >> >> reason,
> >> >
> >> >-->What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
> >> >abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
> >> >It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
> >> >international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.
> >>
> >> AIDS is a disease, for the most part, that can be totally prevented.  It is
> >> a disease of behaviour for the most part.
> >>
> >> I agree with your assertions.
> >
> >-->AIDS is more than a disease, it is a social catalyst that has far
> >reaching consequences.  What will happen when the 99.9% (exageration) of
> >Africa dies because the disease starts to become active?
> 
> The WHO has often been cited as being wrong with it's asserttion.  People
> die in Africa they call it aids, people die of pestilence, they call it
> AIDS, people die of starvation, they call it AIDS.  Fact gathering in that
> region is haphazard at best.
> 

-->I thought this was an estimate based on the number of AIDS cases in
medical files and projected onto the population as a whole, maybe I was
wrong.


> 
> >It is marshal
> >law in the sense that you can't have a "normal" relationship with someone
> >with AIDS (cool down, let me explain) and live a life w/o anxiety. How do
> >you protect them from all the ignorance and fear still out there about the
> >disease?  How do you protect yourself?
> 
> Don't have sex.
> 

-->Why? What have you against sex? Have performance anxiety? :)




> > How do you deal when you have found
> >your soulmate just to know that you will lose them in countable moments?
> 
> Terrible.
> 
> >How much more has sex been tainted from a normal biological act to one of
> >shame, fear, and possible death?
> 
> If it was purely A biologival act, we wouldn;t have AIDS.  SInce it is much
> more than that, we pay the consequences.  Something about the sins of the
> father...

-->WHAT!?! Don't even go there.




> 
> > Why do we have to protect ourselves from
> >death in the act of love?
> 
> Because love unbridled kills.  Anything unbridled kills.  Ask any of the
> dead Ceasars.

-->That's called jeaulousy and possesiveness; the darker side of "love".
I'm surprised Ceasars are capable of love. I don't have much respect for
killers (unless in self-defense; which means that all nasty crawly spiders
_must_die_ :P )



> 
> >Ask yourself why AIDS is more than what it
> >appears to be. And if you don't worry about AIDS and you think you will
> >live forever because you are young and nothing can touch you, you are
> >fucked up in the head. (directed at everyone)
> 
> 
> I am not fucked up because I am in a monogomous relationship and that's
> pretty much it.  I won;t get aids because I don;t fuck around.  I don't do
> any ricky behaviour so, I am safe.  That is until I get into an accident
> and I get bad blood...

-->You might not "fuck" around but what if your partner gets raped but was
too ashamed to tell you? What if you get raped? Whatever, I don't want to
save the world, if that's what you believe it's your Mephistopheles.


<snip>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >PS	I think San Francisco has the best quality raves of all, and I'm
> >> >surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth off
> >> >so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time :)  Now does
> >> >that make it rave related?
> >>
> >> So, when will the great SF allow all night parties?  This place ocould use
> >> some enemas too!
> >
> >-->There are all-night parties happening all the time, check out the
> >underground.  I think SF uses a bit too many enemas if you ask me, but we
> >won't get into that...unless you want to :)
> 
> Coffee, tea, or hot boiling water...ohhh the relief! :)
> 
> Peace,
> John
> 

-->I prefer battery acid and Hydrogen Peroxide personally :)

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 09:05:22 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Im real tired of everyone making fun of my memory problem
and getting twisted out of shape because i start something
and then never fini

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 09:20:33 1998
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At 12:56 AM 1/17/98 -0800, fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> You got it all wrong. If they start showering they stop being hippies...

Perhaps we just started dancing a little earlier
(and it is all too rare to find showers at a rave).

The Tie-Dyed Side of the Force


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 09:20:40 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:22:11 -0800
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
From: andy@pythagoras.org (Andrew Nourse)
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At 12:26 PM 1/17/98 -0800, John S. Lee wrote:
>So, when will the great SF allow all night parties?

Wasn't Da Mayor supposed to fix that?  What happened?

The Tie-Dyed Side of the Force


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 09:23:47 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:27:25 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Subject: midnight family picnics with music
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Tired of huge overpriced partys ?

well then just grow your own.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 12:02:53 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:02:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: raves and politics
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Matthew Kodama wrote:

> M,
> I'm in agreement with most of what you're saying - except this part:
> 
> ---"Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
> > 	The rave scene most definitely is involved with politics...we're
> > on every governmental hit list, and pulling an ostrich is certainly
> not
> > gonna make it go away.
> 
> I think this is a common notion in the raving community (the MAN wants
> to stop the RAVES!), but is it actually true?  If SFPD really wanted
> to, I would guess that they could bust half the large UG parties
> (100+) in San Francisco every night.  It's not really _that_ hard to
> find them.  And even if SFPD just put a squad car and a couple beat
> cops in front of a party without busting it, it would probably  scare
> off so enough people to make sure the promoters lose $$.

-->It's good they don't waste too much manpower busting parties cause
hopefully that means they are spending more time protecting innocents from
those viscious killer donuts :))

> 
> IMO, there's no real reason for the establishment to be worried about
> most rave-ish parties.  So what if a bunch of kids stay out all night
> smoking weed and dancing on E without an assembly permit?  They
> probably won't be doing property crimes or violent assaults, they
> won't be filing lawsuits against the city over getting injured at some
> UG party.  Nobody important (meaning rich) gets hurt, and it distracts
> all the young minds from the _real_ problems of the society we live
> in.  Sounds like a win for the establishment to me.  Unless of course
> we learn something from the parties we go to ... but that's another
> question.
> 

-->They would get alot of flack from parents if kids started dying from
inappropriate drug use at raves (which rings bells to me). And just the
drug element alone is worth the excuse. About crimes and assaults, you
wouldn't believe some of the logic that people are able to subscribe too;
just look at the Nat Enquiror'n'stuff.  There are children of rich people
too that happen to rave.

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 12:42:27 1998
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I came really super close to going, but I didn't get back to Berkeley
till about 3AM and was too lazy to try another party...I went to New Wave
City (a club in the city at 174 King St/3rd) with friends (who I missed;
bad idea to try and meet up w/anyone in a club).  They played good stuff.
The next NWC will be February 7th in case any were interested.

Thanx,
:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 14:16:18 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:15:57 EST
To: Czefir@ix.netcom.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: have fun all of you at planet rock and T&J
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Hey Megan,
    I Just got back from Planet Rock... all I can say is that  I was amazed at
the turn out!!!!  NO JOKE.... There were  alot of the same ol' ravers that you
just got to LOVE and then there were some(not  ravers) that were out of
control!!!  I have never seen so much Tagging and disrespect to HOMEBASE
before.... Although the true RAVERS were there they seemed to be the only ones
with RESPECT and Smiles on thier Faces... Man you just got LOVE them.....
>From what I know only one ambulance ride was called and some Crazy guy that
just felt he needed to become one with the music and his Naked body....
Praying like I have never seen before..=)  but it was alittle amusing....
Anyways You really know what kind of Pepole have Respect for the scene and
those who dont.... Have a good day!!!  I am sleepy and need to rest for a good
12 hour snooze.........  Take CAre.... =o)   Raven

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 15:38:43 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:43:12 -0700
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com>
Subject: BSP: Static 1 year anniversary
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On Friday, January 23, Static will celebrate its 1 year anniversary with a
special all night, all ages event!

DJs will be Static mainstays Bre Ad, Re Ach, Sutekh, Quantum23, and Darin

Guests will be Freaky Chakra (LIVE!), Joe Rice, Maiz, Shoam, and more to be
named...

As usual for Static, expect the unexpected musically- you will hear
everything from minimal techno to dark techstep drum and bass to hip hop to
electro, possibly in the same set! :)

Tickets are limited to 200, and are available via presale for $10.  You can
buy your tickets at Static this Tuesday, or call 415.789.8308 for more info
on how to acquire them.

It's hard to believe it's been one year already... wow.

Take care everyone,
Seth


|| d  j  .  s  u  t  e  k  h
|| b e l i e f - s y s t e m s
|| http://www.belief-systems.com
|| http://www.nodeOne.com/static
|| http://oms1.berkeley.edu/KALX



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 18:31:24 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:34:18 -0800
To: Giles Bowkett <giles@bowkett.com>
From: Megan Haggerty <megan@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: sfraves-digest V1 #489
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At 4:48 PM -0800 1/17/98, Giles Bowkett wrote:
>  Hey, I've got a cool idea. Let's spend the whole weekend getting angry
>about racial shit. We can even throw a "Get Angry About Racial Shit"
>party! It'll be the bomb.
>
>
>                                                         (
>                                                           www
>                                                            .
>                                                         bowkett
>                                                            .
>                                                           com
>                                                               )

I am pretty sure this post is meant to mock the racial conversations that
have been going on lately.  Well, personally, I would rather hear people
being angry about racial inequality than be bored with it and beg for more
conversations about where the next party is.  Some things need to be talked
about.  Race relations effect our scene, like it or not.  We have a long
way to go.

I'm not one to sweep unpleasantries under the rug and hope they go away.
But hey, maybe you are.  I can resepct that but don't make fun of people
who are having a much needed, serious conversation.

Megan



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 18:38:05 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:41:03 -0800
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>, Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: Oh, and one more thing about smoking....
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John shared:

>The power of addiction comes down to choice.  I should not be made to
>suffer for other people's choices.  Addiction or not.  Taking that stance,
>damned near anything is tolerable due to certain things being out of one's
>control.  I dig that it's a addiction.  I am also glad that I no longer
>have to put up with other people's addiction going into my lungs and on my
>clothes.
>
>Tolerance, like freedom should properly have some limits.  I don;t have the
>answers to what should and shouldn;t be tolerated, but I take the
>libertarian view.  Your "rights" to your freedom ends when it interferes
>with my "right" to freedom.

        Actually, the libertarian view is that the owners of private
businesses should be able to set their own smoking policies, not have the
government do it for them.

                                <<< Starchild >>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 18:40:07 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:43:02 -0800
To: rwpointer@citiscape.com
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: The New Law..."Humans are inherently good" tangent
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Dear Rob,

        I too believe people are inherently good (accepting your definition
of good).  Unfortunately, many people don't believe this.  They believe
people in general -- except themselves of course -- are greedy,
irresponsible and dangerous if not downright evil.  That's one reason why
so many laws are passed to control behavior -- the people voting for and
implementing these laws have a basic mistrust/dislike of their fellow human
beings.

                                <<< Starchild >>>

>John and others,
>
>Well, as I am on the side of "no smoking" where it can adversly affect others
>in a negative way (healthwise), it seems that the law for smoking in public
>areas is a good one.
>Raves, on the other hand, should be the very place where one can experiment
>with things that are not considered part of the accepted "common good." If
>this means that it now includes cigarettes, so be it.
>(This is laughable to me however, considering how mediocre it sounds to say,
>"yeah man, we can *smoke* indoors at a rave!" But if needs to be part of the
>escapism aura that surrounds the Rave lifestyle, then bring on the smoke.) ---
>Of course, my argument stems from the idea that raves should be underground
>and illicit. That, IMO, is part of their appeal.
>Anyway something that John L. brought up makes me feel compelled say something
>concerning the statement below:
>
>> Humans are often so unreasonable that if it weren't for laws we would be at
>> each others throat.  Especially on this rock called the USA.  Unfortunately
>> for us, laws keep us civil, and that's a sad statement to make about
>> humanity in general.
>
>
>This statement implies that people are inherently bad. I absolutely disagree
>with this. Humanity, in general, is good. Everything that surrounds our lives
>(social constructs, laws, major religions, etc.) is created by us (humans).
>These things are created to support the good qualities that we need to
>continue our existence in a meaningful way. If humans in general, were not
>good at heart, there is no way that all of these things that we use to run our
>lives (government, churches, families, etc.) would ever continue to exist.
>We would destroy them, becuase at heart, we would not support what is good.
>In fact, it is hard for me to believe anything otherwise considering there are
>over 4 billion people on this planet and we can continue to live amongst each
>other in overwhelming harmony.
>You say that laws protect us from the bad parts of humanity.
>This is exactly my point.
>We created it and the majority support it. Therefore humanity must be on the
>side of good rather than bad.
>
>If it were not so, everything would crumble.
>
>When I go to Raves [oh so seldom these days  :( ], this is the attitude I take
>with me.
>
>It is a perspective of the world that has to be correct or else we will never
>rise above what we are now.
>
>rob.
>http://www.citizenmag.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 18:41:42 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:44:42 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  glittergirl@value.net (glittergirl@value.net)
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: NRR: Sprite commercials
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Glittergirl shared:

>I like the idea behind the Sprite commercials, but I lost all my enthusiasm
>for them recently.  Sprite also puts on the "Jooky" themed commercials that
>make fun of companies that try to get you to buy their product by offering
>merchandise if you collect enough labels (or game pieces or Camel cash or
>bottle tops -- whatever).  HOWEVER, about an hour later I saw another
>Sprite commercial -- in this one Sprite was saying that if you collect
>enough Sprite labels you will be able to order all of this cool Sprite
>merchandise.  Pretty hypocritic, no?

        LOL!  Actually glittergirl, I think you're missing the point of the
ads.  Blatant hypocrisy *is* the idea behind the Sprite commercials.
They've tried to take blatant hypocrisy and make it a selling point.
That's what's so damn funny.

                                <<< Starchild >>>
>
>So, the ad agency that is doing the Sprite ads right now just seems to be
>good at manipulating "Gen X" beliefs.  They recognize that a larger
>proportion of our generation has become disillusioned with a consumer
>culture based around style, image, and attitude.
>
>I hate it when I feel manipulated.
>
>Robin
>
>
>>Dear Rave Friends,
>>
>>        Remember "image is nothing, thirst is everything"?  Well I just
>>heard a new radio commercial for Sprite yesterday that appears to be part
>>of the same campaign.
>>
>>        This one really caught my attention, because it has the sound of an
>>Enigma song with Gregorian chanting.  Voices are intoning stuff like
>>"drinking Sprite will make you enlightened,"  "Sprite will help you achieve
>>universal harmony," "Sprite is the fountain of eternal youth," etc. (these
>>aren't direct quotes, I only heard it once).
>>
>>        At the end of the commercial, a more normal-sounding voice comes
>>on, saying that if you think a beverage is going to make you young and
>>perfect you need to get a life, or something to that effect.
>>
>>        I love ads that fuck with your head like that -- tell all these
>>wonderful lies about your product, then disassociate yourself from the
>>message.  Anybody know which ad agency comes up with this stuff, and what
>>other work they are doing?  It's fascinating to watch a company try to
>>build a product image by dumping on the idea of a product having an image.
>>Also interesting how some products become images as some images become
>>products...
>>
>>                                   <<< Starchild >>>
>>
>>
>>                      Don't "just do it," think about it first!
>>                Don't "just be," be someone positive and interesting!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 18:43:34 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:46:29 -0800
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: "underground" carnival?
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Hi again Vlad,

        In one of our recent exchanges, you wrote:

>That is one of the big difference between UG and Massives...(in my
>VERY generalized definition) is that UG's thrive on the community support, and
>Massive's utilize Industry resources.   Now this is in no way an exact
>definition by any means, but it is a prime factor in the obvious nature of
>the two
>distinct operations.

        My understanding of what you were trying to say is that people on
SFRaves should not confuse massives with undergrounds and try to hold the
former to the standards of the latter, since they are two different things.

        However I notice you've used the words "Underground Carnival" as
part of the name of your upcoming Valentine's Day massive.  Do you have any
concern that with this title you may be misleading people into expecting
this will be an "underground" type event with a community, rather than an
industry feel to it?

        Or are you trying to design and promote this event in a
community-supported manner?

Much love,
                                <<< Starchild >>>


>Here is the information of the calendar.....
>
>Saturday, February 14th - Feel Good Entertainment presents Love A-Fair
>'98
>"The Underground Carnival" Valentine's Day PLURity Vibe-Fest and Six
>year anniversary



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 18:51:08 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:53:59 -0800
To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: RE: The new law...
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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This is a beautiful message... thanks Noah!

>Just because you are free to do something doesn't mean you have to do it.
>
>I would much rather be at a rave where I knew that I was free to smoke,
>but I (and others) *chose* not to due to social norms or out of respect
>for the location or other guests.  I mean, for Pete's sake (who's Pete?!)
>I guess you're free to walk around the party farting on people, but folks
>don't do it because there's a social norm keeping that from happeneing,
>you know?  I think farts are just about as offensive as second-hand
>smoke, and I'm willing to bet we can get some folks to determine that
>they cause cancer (we already know that methane is a leading green-house
>gas and is contributing to ozone-layer holes!) but there aren't any
>anti-farting laws, now are there?
>
>There doesn't need to be a law there to tell you *everything* that you
>should and should not do.  There's a difference between a law and a
>social norm, too.  If the group I hang out with doesn't condone a certain
>behavior, I have a choice to modify my behavior or leave the group.  If
>The State is continually building laws to regulate my behavior, I'm just
>another character in Orwell's _1984_ or Huxley's _Brave New World_.
>
>I agree that there's a big difference between freedom and respect, but I
>see them as complimentary, not opositional.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 19:12:04 1998
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>>  Hey, I've got a cool idea. Let's spend the whole weekend getting angry
>>about racial shit. We can even throw a "Get Angry About Racial Shit"
>>party! It'll be the bomb.
>
>I am pretty sure this post is meant to mock the racial conversations that
>have been going on lately.  Well, personally, I would rather hear people
>being angry about racial inequality than be bored with it and beg for more
>conversations about where the next party is.  Some things need to be talked
>about.  Race relations effect our scene, like it or not.  We have a long
>way to go.
>
>I'm not one to sweep unpleasantries under the rug and hope they go away.
>But hey, maybe you are.  I can resepct that but don't make fun of people
>who are having a much needed, serious conversation.

  I'm not one to sweep unpleasantries under the rug either. I'm one to
either do something about it or be quiet. I could go into why I hate
racial shit, but what's the point? Even writing that sentence makes me
remember things that have happened to friends, things that make me angry,
and I'm not going to get angry about something if I can't do anything
about it. There's enough negativity in the world as it is without me
generating my own personal bad vibes. I'd rather focus on the positive.
That's just the way I do things.
  Anyway, it was really just a joke. Sorry if I upset you.


     \------------------^-
     ! giles@bowkett.com !   *BANG*
      --------------------
    /++++/ \ )
   /++++/----
  /++++/
 /++++/
 ----



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 19:14:09 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:17:11 -0800
To: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: RE: The new law...
Cc: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>, Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 10:53 AM -0800 1/18/98, Starchild wrote:
>This is a beautiful message... thanks Noah!
>
>>Just because you are free to do something doesn't mean you have to do it.
>>
>>I would much rather be at a rave where I knew that I was free to smoke,
>>but I (and others) *chose* not to due to social norms or out of respect
>>for the location or other guests.  I mean, for Pete's sake (who's Pete?!)
>>I guess you're free to walk around the party farting on people, but folks
>>don't do it because there's a social norm keeping that from happeneing,
>>you know?

Yes, but farts, unless you've been ingesting radioactive materials do not
cause cancer.  Cigarette smoke does.

>>I think farts are just about as offensive as second-hand
>>smoke, and I'm willing to bet we can get some folks to determine that
>>they cause cancer (we already know that methane is a leading green-house
>>gas and is contributing to ozone-layer holes!) but there aren't any
>>anti-farting laws, now are there?

It's not a matter of offense as it is health.  Your right to hurt yourself
stops when you hurt me.

>>
>>There doesn't need to be a law there to tell you *everything* that you
>>should and should not do.

When people don;t respect each other laws are inevitable.

>> There's a difference between a law and a
>>social norm, too.  If the group I hang out with doesn't condone a certain
>>behavior, I have a choice to modify my behavior or leave the group.  If
>>The State is continually building laws to regulate my behavior, I'm just
>>another character in Orwell's _1984_ or Huxley's _Brave New World_.

too late.

>>
>>I agree that there's a big difference between freedom and respect, but I
>>see them as complimentary, not opositional.


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 20:08:32 1998
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To: SFRavEs Mailing List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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hi jeff.

i think this is the kind of stuff i really like to see more of on sfraves.
i for one do not have a car and i am watching it slowly get taken over by
mold because i can't park it indoors,,, someday i would like to have a
raver carpooling web page or somefun,,,including during the wekedays.
wouldn't it be nice to carpool to work with fellow raversr, maybe have a
mindboggleing discussion before you face your boss...don't be late now!

Thank you to b-bong for continuing this little thread.  i hope to see more
of you with cars offering.  when i get my car fixed i plan on doing so
wherever i may be going, unless im just going to whole foods down the
street.  you ARE all vegetarians out there, right?

>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:11:58 +0000
>From: Billabong <Bbong@goplay.com>
>Subject: South bay->Oaktown carpool
>
>I'm going to Planet Rock this evening. If any of you peeps need a ride
>from the south bay to oakland, I have extra seats. Plan to be there all
>night. pgr (408)488-1020
>
>
>happy happy joy joy,
>
>Billabong



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 20:13:59 1998
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Subject: Planet too expensive
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Well I wAAAas going to planet rock.  But there wasz no way I could aford to
shell out 30 doll hairs for just one night of joyous happyrificness.  Me being
a college student and all.  I'd love to hear from everyone how much it sucked.
Hopefully it will make me feel better.

FROGMAN

Living through rage, rottong of old age amid the exquisite shit of glory.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 21:09:33 1998
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Starchild,

Before I respond directly - I just gotta say this: I'm listening to FSOL's
ISDN and I was listening to Lifeforms yesterday, and I wanna know why we just
haven't flat out called these guys geniuses. The way that they approach music
and its composition is amazing (and revolutionary, IMHO). --- (I love Oribtal
and "dubnobasswithmyheadman" Underworld as well. I'm gonna pop in some of
those bad boyz inna moment as well.)
O.k., back to the business at hand...
Thanks. I'm just trying to forward a different way of thinking about who we
are and what we live up to. The problem that I have with most of the debate
going on right now with the "ravers and politics" and "I'm from here, I'm from
there, go home if you don't like it" threadz is the macro point of view behind
the statements.

<! Sidenote: I'm about to call out John and Minh on this one, but I only do
this because they are the most vocal on their particular issues right now.
John, Minh, I respect you two and these are just illustrations surrounding
your posts to date. So that being said....> 

You can argue till one is blue in the face about the details surrounding an
issue (which has been done), but I get no suggestions from either debating
party that really, *we are all in this together*.
Hmmmm, black, white, veitnamese, philipino, mexican, whatever. It's all
humanity. We chose to manifest our differences above in our social behaviors.
That's it. Period.
When I read about all of the statements that John Lee makes about how fucked
up racial relations are I can accept that. When I read about how Minh has
problems with the many ways life is lived in the United States, I can accept
that as well. What I cannot accept is that these problems are indicative of
humanity's entire character and that that is all they (John, Minh) are
responsible to.
I think it should be understood that when Minh indicts U.S. Veteran's
attitude, or when John indicts "White Boy" they are really condemning themselves.
Why?
Because they are responsible for not only their behavior and the particular
standard that they live by, but also upholding the goodness in others as well.
People fall down. People will hurt you. People will fuck you over. It is our
responsibility to have compassion for those people. It is our responsibility
to change the environment that we live in to be progressively better. It is
our responsibility to bring out the natural goodness that exist in those
around us.
You can run away from the problems you see (Minh) or condemn racial problems
(John) and go to a better place where those problems don't exist for you, but
the sad fact is this:

They still exist for others. You were aware of them. What did you do to help
better your fellow human? 

I believe that both of the two that I have targeted (Thanks!) are capable and
really do want to do these things (that is my belief in their humanity), but I
pose the questions so they are considered anyway. (John, I have read about
your efforts in the VSF/Stompy fiasco and have seen you put effort in trying
to fix your problem with the situation. I am just wondering if there was any
effort put towards the person that wronged you as well? If not, then they will
do it again to someone else. There is no victory in that. There are direct
ways and there are roundabout ways. Anyway, I was hoping to go to Stompy some
day and meet you finally, but it doesn't look like it'll be there :( )
Simply put, it doesn't matter whether you go back to Veitnam or that you
eliminate racial bias in your life, it matters most what you can do for those
around you that deal with the very same problems that you have already recognized.
It means caring for those who are victims and having compassion for those that
are causing the pain. 
Yep. This is a tough concept to swallow. It takes a strong person to be able
to do this. But I believe that we are capable.

How's that for exploring what "PLUR" may really be? 

Rave on,

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

the Starchild wrote:
> 
> Very well put & reasoned!
> 
> >Kim et al.,
> >
> >Ahhh, I'm one not to let an opportunity pass me by, Soooo....
> >
> >I said: "People are good."
> >
> >Good is defined in the webster dictionary as:
> >
> >"of favorable character or tendency", "free from injury or disease",
> "not
> >depreciated", "certain to last or live", "certain to pay or
> contribute",
> >"deserving of respect", "virtuous, just, commendable", "Right, kind,
> >benevolent".
> >
> >But more to the point I was trying to make:
> >
> >"something conforming to the moral order of the universe,
> praiseworthy
> >character, advancement of prosperity or health (the "good" of the
> community)."
> >
> >That should help you understand my point better and hopefully you can
> see my
> >argument a little more clearly.
> >BTW, if you don't believe in the terms "good" or "bad" (or equivalent
> >monikers) then how can you critique anything?
> >
> >You can't. It's impossible.
> >
> >Without a stance or perspective you have no way of making a
> contribution
> >anyway. This is one of the great problems with people who have no
> strong
> >convictions.
> >
> >Anyway, love your fellow human (even if it only happens at raves),
> >
> >=:)
> >
> >rob.
> >http://www.citizenmag.com
> >
> >.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
> >>
> >> This debate seems pointless to me, as I do not believe in the terms
> >> good or bad. They are all relative and over-generalizations....
> >>
> >> first, define good and bad and then perhaps i will be interested in
> >> the debate...but to say things as simply as "people are bad" or
> >> "people are good" ........
> >>
> >> *shrug*
> >>
> >> -kim

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 21:09:37 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:02:32 -0500 (EST)
From: MacBunny <akp2@acpub.duke.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: ONE LOVE 
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whatsupper!

i recently joined this list and thought i'd pass along a little something 
that really made me feel good.  i'm currently in north carolina for 
school, but spend all my vacation time back home in sf (too bad i won't 
be back until summer).  i hope all is 
well in ca - the people and parties there are like no other.  don't take 
for granted what you guys have :)

plur, hugs & kisses,

amber


---------------------------------------------
LOVE

A subject which defies the limits of space and time; which transcends all

boundaries of politics, religion, race, color, shape, size or history.
   Love is a beautiful world of mystery and infinite energy. Love is more
than a concept or physical motivation. Love is a pure energy which inhabits
everyone and
everything . . . one endless source of energy accessible to any human being,
at any given moment in any given environment. Be it in the sanctity of a
church, the stillness of a night, during a party of thousands, or on a
beach of
solitary splendor. Love is an intangible which has been both a source of
passionate desire and of intense sadness which has plagued and entranced
conscious man since the beginning of recorded history. A vast subject,
indeed, yet one which is inexhaustible and universal.

 Why? What is it about this thing called love that obsesses us so? Why is
it that
 we look upon it as something we "have" or are "in" or that we "fall into?"
 Wherever did we learn the idea that it was something that might chain us
 down, or break our hearts, or make us whole? Why is it that we need it and
 can't live without it? Why do we ever look for something outside of ourselves
 to make us whole? To define us? To make us feel better about ourselves? Or
 to forget ourselves? . . . There is so much more . . Love is constant,
 omnipresent and pure vibration which lives inside everyone of us. Love is
 inherent in our very nature. You are love. The power of love is always at
your
 fingertips because you are alive. Love exists inside and outside of every
living
 thing. Love is yours for the having.

 We are all so beautiful with infinite possibilities. Everyone of us is a
unique
 creature with thoughts, dreams, ideas, desires and creativity to be
cultivated
 and shared with each other. Love is a flow whose very nature is to move into
 and out of us like the air. Each of us is a unique force with our own unique
 way of expressing the love we have. The important thing is to do just
 that.....express love. Live in love...with love. We are all brothers and
sisters
 with boundless energy and Love to spare. We are stronger together. To love
 yourself. To love those around you. Love is what we have to give. Love is who
 we are. Love and respect yourself and the earth around you. Reach deep
 inside your soul and see how beautiful you and the world around you is. It is
 easy to hate. Easy to be jealous. Easy to take. Easy to be violent. It is
hard  to love and give of yourself. We think we know how. We don't know
anything. We
 must open our mind to each other...to support and love each other. We all
 want the same thing....to be loved and heard. So, love and listen.

           please feel free to photocopy and distribute this flyer

                               Ministry of Love

                               (san francisco)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 21:46:18 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:49:04 -0800
To: rwpointer@citiscape.com
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: For Goodnes sake! - Minh, Johh, etc.
Cc: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 3:26 AM -0800 1/19/98, Robert Pointer wrote:
>Starchild,
>
>Before I respond directly - I just gotta say this: I'm listening to FSOL's
>ISDN and I was listening to Lifeforms yesterday, and I wanna know why we just
>haven't flat out called these guys geniuses. The way that they approach music
>and its composition is amazing (and revolutionary, IMHO). --- (I love Oribtal
>and "dubnobasswithmyheadman" Underworld as well. I'm gonna pop in some of
>those bad boyz inna moment as well.)
>O.k., back to the business at hand...
>Thanks. I'm just trying to forward a different way of thinking about who we
>are and what we live up to. The problem that I have with most of the debate
>going on right now with the "ravers and politics" and "I'm from here, I'm from
>there, go home if you don't like it" threadz is the macro point of view behind
>the statements.

I have never taken the stance of you don;t like it leave.  That is NOT what
I'm about.  As you well know I am about "If you don;t like it, change it."
Citing issue after issue is pointless IMO.  Doing something has always
meant more to me than saying something.  I just found it hypocritical to
lambaste the American system while *fighting* to get in.  All at the same
time with the premise of slooling people to whats up...geez.


>
><! Sidenote: I'm about to call out John and Minh on this one, but I only do
>this because they are the most vocal on their particular issues right now.
>John, Minh, I respect you two and these are just illustrations surrounding
>your posts to date. So that being said....>
>
>You can argue till one is blue in the face about the details surrounding an
>issue (which has been done), but I get no suggestions from either debating
>party that really, *we are all in this together*.

Yes you have gotten suggestions from me, as always since I never go off
without some solutions, don;t sell me short.  I said pool resources and
money, all teh while Minh was talking about how shitty this place is.
There is a difference, and if one takes time to filter through the noise
one can find the truth.  We are not saying the same thing although we could
well want the same thing.  One is action, and one is words.

>Hmmmm, black, white, veitnamese, philipino, mexican, whatever. It's all
>humanity. We chose to manifest our differences above in our social behaviors.
>That's it. Period.
>When I read about all of the statements that John Lee makes about how fucked
>up racial relations are I can accept that. When I read about how Minh has
>problems with the many ways life is lived in the United States, I can accept
>that as well. What I cannot accept is that these problems are indicative of
>humanity's entire character and that that is all they (John, Minh) are
>responsible to.

To ourselves and humanity be true.  Fight and change the paradigm, that's
my motto.

>I think it should be understood that when Minh indicts U.S. Veteran's
>attitude, or when John indicts "White Boy" they are really condemning
>themselves.

I do not indict White Boy, I use that term in a general sesne just like
those who use "Ghetto".  I have just, like everyone else, redefined a term
to meet *my* criteria.  Using the same method others use to justify their
use of the phrase.  It has nothign to do with race, just attitude, yes?

>Why?
>Because they are responsible for not only their behavior and the particular
>standard that they live by, but also upholding the goodness in others as well.
>People fall down. People will hurt you. People will fuck you over. It is our
>responsibility to have compassion for those people. It is our responsibility
>to change the environment that we live in to be progressively better. It is
>our responsibility to bring out the natural goodness that exist in those
>around us.

Agreed.

>You can run away from the problems you see (Minh) or condemn racial problems
>(John) and go to a better place where those problems don't exist for you, but
>the sad fact is this:
>
>They still exist for others. You were aware of them. What did you do to help
>better your fellow human?

By bettering myself and my circumstance, humanity benefits.  By making sure
I take care of my child, by making sure I live a proper and moral life,
everyone benefits.  Me being happy is beneficial.  Community service is
beneficial.  Turning words into action is of benefit.  I walk the walk as
well as talk the talk.

>
>I believe that both of the two that I have targeted (Thanks!) are capable and
>really do want to do these things (that is my belief in their humanity), but I
>pose the questions so they are considered anyway. (John, I have read about
>your efforts in the VSF/Stompy fiasco and have seen you put effort in trying
>to fix your problem with the situation. I am just wondering if there was any
>effort put towards the person that wronged you as well?

And who might that be?  The security?  Most of them have been shifted
around or out right fired.  The drunken bartender?  He is still teh Bar
Manager who sticks up for security (and he better or else they won't do
shit for him when he really needs them).  Basically it was a big ass
covering cover up.  Nobody was responsible and there was nothign to target.
It is just a club, and one I will no longer go to.  Fuck 'em.  There are
other clubs I can take my money AND parties to.  VSF?  Fuck 'em, my action
is to not go there again, depriving them of dollars, and to tell anyone who
wants to know why I won;t go there, the reasons, hurting them even more.  I
have no vendetta, I'm onto other things.  In a bureaucracy it is difficult
to pinpoint a person.  All the platitudes by the Stompy crew won't erase
what happened, so I've moved on, wish them well (kinda), and am off to
other more important things.  A warrior knows when to fight, and when to
cease fighting.  I am satisfied in the sense I will never go there again.
My metric has been met, I did what I had to do, talked to dozens of
officials, tried to contact and threaten the club owners, and did far more
than anyone else I know who has been wronged.  With all that behind me I am
comfortable with my current stance:  No more parties will be attended by me
at VSF.  YMMV.

> If not, then they will
>do it again to someone else.

Considering the tepid response by some in the community, as long as it
didn;t happen to them , my incident is unimportant.  Time is always the
best teacher, but she is often blunt and direct in her lessons.

> There is no victory in that.

Well you can lead horses to water...my victory stands in the fact that I
took this to the people and to the law and to the owners.  I am satisfied
that I hgave all involved an opportunity to represent themselves.  I got
rationale, explanations (different and contradictory), and platitudes.  I
was not going to go anywhere after taking all the legal recourse I could.
Now it's up to g_d and karma.  That small fire that happened there the
night before Amatuer Day (Jan. 1st) was enough to satisfy me that that
place has a bad vibe, and is doomed for a short life, Preston or no Preston.

> There are direct
>ways and there are roundabout ways.

I was direct.  I got moral support from a few (a precious few I might add,
I love y'all that backed me!), but not enough outrage, after all the final
question became:"Hey drop it!" or "And what are *we* supposed to do?"


>Anyway, I was hoping to go to Stompy some
>day and meet you finally, but it doesn't look like it'll be there :( )

That is correct, no more Stompy Stomp as long as it's in that venue...who
knows it may happen sooner than I think.

>Simply put, it doesn't matter whether you go back to Veitnam or that you
>eliminate racial bias in your life, it matters most what you can do for those
>around you that deal with the very same problems that you have already
>recognized.

Action rather than words, I'm down.

>It means caring for those who are victims and having compassion for those that
>are causing the pain.

Agreed.

>Yep. This is a tough concept to swallow. It takes a strong person to be able
>to do this. But I believe that we are capable.

A greater step to healing of humanity I would agree.

>
>How's that for exploring what "PLUR" may really be?

respect is the word g money.

Much peace to you and thank you for the thoughful insight.  Some food for
thought.  I will consider your words.  Consider me silent for a while on
all of this.

Minh is a good person I know that, we want the same thing but perhaps
coming from differnt sides to accomplish said same tasks.

Food for thought, and I am not mad at him or anyone else who has a contrary
view.

Much peace again,
John


>
>Rave on,
>
>rob.
>http://www.citizenmag.com
>
>the Starchild wrote:
>>
>> Very well put & reasoned!
>>
>> >Kim et al.,
>> >
>> >Ahhh, I'm one not to let an opportunity pass me by, Soooo....
>> >
>> >I said: "People are good."
>> >
>> >Good is defined in the webster dictionary as:
>> >
>> >"of favorable character or tendency", "free from injury or disease",
>> "not
>> >depreciated", "certain to last or live", "certain to pay or
>> contribute",
>> >"deserving of respect", "virtuous, just, commendable", "Right, kind,
>> >benevolent".
>> >
>> >But more to the point I was trying to make:
>> >
>> >"something conforming to the moral order of the universe,
>> praiseworthy
>> >character, advancement of prosperity or health (the "good" of the
>> community)."
>> >
>> >That should help you understand my point better and hopefully you can
>> see my
>> >argument a little more clearly.
>> >BTW, if you don't believe in the terms "good" or "bad" (or equivalent
>> >monikers) then how can you critique anything?
>> >
>> >You can't. It's impossible.
>> >
>> >Without a stance or perspective you have no way of making a
>> contribution
>> >anyway. This is one of the great problems with people who have no
>> strong
>> >convictions.
>> >
>> >Anyway, love your fellow human (even if it only happens at raves),
>> >
>> >=:)
>> >
>> >rob.
>> >http://www.citizenmag.com
>> >
>> >.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This debate seems pointless to me, as I do not believe in the terms
>> >> good or bad. They are all relative and over-generalizations....
>> >>
>> >> first, define good and bad and then perhaps i will be interested in
>> >> the debate...but to say things as simply as "people are bad" or
>> >> "people are good" ........
>> >>
>> >> *shrug*
>> >>
>> >> -kim


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 21:52:49 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:46:42 EST
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WOW!! What a nite... heheheh.. and you all thought it was going to be a phat
ghetto party!! Well let me tell you... IT WAS!! ANd I loved every damn minute
of it.
       Started off with Nik and Marq coming to my house to get ready.  Always
fun to blow glitter onto each other so my carpet will sparkle for weeks.
After phone calls and adding a new person to our carpool, we were off.  Picked
up Teresa =) and then headed over to SunE's (kristin) house to grab her too.
Unfortunately, none of us are very good at either giving or receiving
directions.  (That includes driving into DO NOT ENTER zones, Nik... oncoming
traffic can be a hazard)
       The five of us arrived at the party somewhere between 9-10 and were
greeted by a classic Planet Rock line.  A huge mass of people... some of which
were screaming their indignations about having to wait and pay $30.  "LET"S
RUSH THE GATES"  C'mon people, we all get to the front eventually. 
      IN line I met two SFR peeps, Geoff and Natasha (hi!) after a rousing
chourus of "If you're a homie and you know it, clap your hands," and inventing
a tenative list entitled, "You know your at a massive when...."  we pushed
towards the front of the line.  We made it inside just in time to hear Simon
Apex.  Now... I've been wanting to hear happy hardcore at a party for a
loooong time, and I was NOT dissapointed.  Off to speaker fucking and such =)
The happy lyrics just threw me into happy party mode and started my night off
great =)  But alas... my short attention span led me outside with SunE to find
THree HUGE bouncy castles =)  Oh YAY! Let's forget about safety hazards for a
moment.... there's just something about being on a huge, enclosed trampoline
while hard techno is pounding that gets me going.  At least until we were
joined by some ruffians who tipped the whole thing over and sent  SunE and Me
diving for the exit.  I also heard later on in the night someone tried to
sneak into the party by jumping off the roof and using the bouncy castles to
break their fall.  This was the supposed reason for them being shut down. I
also heard there was an ambulance involved??  Let's think people... it's not
worth risking your life to get to a party.
        After I could get used to solid ground again, we went and grooved to
some housy stuff in the Flower room.  I wasn't too impressed with the first
big room (Invisble Skratch Pickles, Grandmaster Flash, etc)  The main room,
though, OH MY GOSH!! Let me just give Supreme props to Cy Funk 3, cuz they had
me stuck in front of the turntables going off for their whole set.  Talk about
getting the crowd going.  That was my favorite set of the night.  It was
exactly the release of energy I'd been looking for these past few days.  I
really love those moments of clarification where you just stop dancing and
look up and see everyone and smile because you know why you love to rave so
much.
        Stareyes was doing really well, but by then I was pretty much too worn
out to dance.  And who was on last in the first big room?? Joey?? They had the
last few partygoers jumping up and down.  I spent my last bit of energy
jumping up and down to that set.  
        Afterwards, we were the last people there (non-staff people that is)
and were just wandering around.  Got interviewed by some people about why we
rave and why we dress the way we do.  It's times like that when I'm glad I can
just quote SFR and go on my way ;)  Ok... well... if it shows up in that raver
movie thing I'll laugh at how bad we all look at six in the morning.
       OVerall I had a really great time.  you're not supposed to have that
much fun at a Planet Rock.  Hm... well.. spotty vibe and interesting crowd,
but I had a blast.  Oh so worth my money.  (well, maybe not all of it, but
some at least)    I never did get to play laser tag, though... 
        THe tagging is a definate issue.  I always find myself wanting to tell
people to stop, but being so afraid for my personal safety, that I don't.  
          OK.. hope everyone had a great weekend.  Enjoy the rain =)

      hugs n'stuff,
         'trice the tekno diva

 I have a list of people to say hi to, but I thought I'd put it at the end, so
if you don't want to read it you don't have to.
   Teresa, Nik, Marq, Jeremy, SunE, Natasha, Geoff, Philip, Paul, Victoria,
Shasta, Ivan, Vlad, Rob, Slim, Greg, Ron, Josh, J, Jen, Christy, Patti, Zoe?
and everyone else I'm forgetting because I'm so tired

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 22:56:07 1998
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Subject: --->> PlaNeT CrOCk ReVue <<---
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 14:57:15 -0000
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From: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
To: "TeKnODiVa" <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>, "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <SFRaves@hyperreal.org>
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>WOW!! What a nite... heheheh.. and you all thought it was going to be a phat
>ghetto party!! Well let me tell you... IT WAS!! ANd I loved every damn minute
>of it.
>
> TeKnODiVa



YOU GO GIRL ;)


....it was the BEST FUCKING b-day party I've ever had :)~

..........2 words...KID BIPPY !!!!!!!!!!!!

---------------------------------------------------------> mercury
mercury@liquidmercury.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 23:04:44 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Minh Re:  !~raves and politics~!
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=mlowdrma+40OCF+2EBerkeley+2EEDU+3B@apollogr's message of 01-16-98 03:52

You make some excellent points.  I am fully aware of the shortcomings of the
U.S. in various regions, both blatant and underlying.  But every country has
its problems right?  I have witnessed this first hand living in other
countries, but I needn't list that.  

You mention AIDS as a comparison to living under marshal law and seeing people
die around you.  I beg to differ with you in that I would hazard a guess that
the U.S. government did not release this deadly virus on its people.  I am
saying this based on information I know, please enlighten me (anyone) if you
have something more to contribute.

I too love the city of San Francisco as I find it a diverse mix of people
(to say the least) with the lowest level of ethnic static, especially at clubs
and/or raves.  You seem passionate about what's wrong here in the U.S.  I'm
assuming you are an activist?  Volunteering at the soup kitchen, e.g., Meals on
Wheels.  Spending a few hours a week at the hospice, teaching people to read,
e.g., children in the Reading is FUNdamental program, etc.?  Well, I don't do
any of those, like I said, I do what I can in my own way and I know that's all
I can do.

I take a positive attitude wherever I am and take in my surroundings.  Perhaps
I can learn from your experiences as an ethnic minority in this country.  Like
I said, you seem to be passionate about your convictions.  I enjoy living here
in the U.S.  If I didn't, I'd get outta Dodge and live somewhere else.  I am
aware of the pros and cons but choose not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"...gettin' down just for the funk of it..."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 23:04:59 1998
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* sherry * wrote:
> 
> ****************  SMOKING KILLS  *****************
> 
>       what more needs to be said!!!!!!!!
> 
> **************************************************
> 
> mercury


Actually smoking doesnt kill.
I used to suck...( on cigs) and quit about 8 years ago.

I am now so allergic to smoke that i get really sick from
breathing it. I would rather be slapped in the face than
have smoke blown in my face. The pain of being slapped is 
less that the pain i experience from breathing smoke all
night which is one reason i prefer outdoor raves and often
dont go to indoor partys.

Many indians believe that tobacco is sacred and that smoking
a small amount, like a handfull a week or less is actually
healing and part of many healing rituals just like marijauna.
It is the abuse and lack of RESPECT for the tobacco spirits
that kill. Like anything else, it is the abuse that kills.

As hospitals are finding out, trying to create a perfectly
sterile enviormnent will eventually backfire. Now our hospitals
are some of the most dangerous places to be and we now have
mutant viruses that are  threatening to wipe out
the human race. So a little bit of smoke or anything else
is not in itself a bad thing, its the abuse that causes problems.

Its interesting how much wisdom is in that word PLUR. I certainly
have not mastered plur but i find that thinking of things from
a perspective that includes plur and especially respect is
a way that i am finding ways to improve my life.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 23:05:45 1998
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From: "n i c o" <nico@techstep.com>
To: <holmannh@wellsfargo.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: [Important] NRR - More on Cashing in that Check Slacker Style
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:02:21 -0800
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>cash your check for as much money as you need to get
> [for example you have $150 dollar check made out to you and you
>know there is a $95 check that you wrote so you need that money credited
>now, in this example get at least $95 cash back when you're depositing
>the check]
>then right away deposit the cash into your account
> [in the example you would then deposit the $95]
>

    Policies differ between Bank of America and Wells Fargo.

    I used to work for BofA [the better bank  ; )] and cash is just as good
as check, meaning that BofA credits each deposit for $200 IMMEDIATELY.  The
rest is credited after someone processes the check or process the paperwork
[paper is substituted as the credit because the teller puts the money in
his/her drawer].
    Some more hints [for Bank of America customers]:

    If you deposit your check before 4pm through the teller, it'll be fully
credited by that evening.
    If you deposit your check before 6pm with the ATM, it'll be credited in
full by that evening.
    Watch the frag out though because even if a check processes that night,
it doesn't mean the check is good.  Electronic funds transfers take about 2
days, both for check varification and funds varification.  You may not know
the check was bad until you get a letter one week later telling you that the
funds were not present in the account the check was drawn from.
    Usually a bank processes a check twice before the check is returned to
the depositor.  This is good if you know a check didn't clear in the
evening.  You can still deposit the money the day after it happens and with
luck, the second time it processes, you'll have the funds in there to cover
the check.  [Redundancy, yes I know]

    Remember, this kinda stuphf is specific to Bank of America.  Dunno how
that wagon train bank does their shite.

    *much love and go to #sfraves*

    Nico


**************************************************************************
                                            Techstep Industries
      nico@techstep.com                                   #sfraves [EFnet]
      http://www.techstep.com/nico                  #techstep [EFnet]

**************************************************************************

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 23:09:38 1998
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Hey everyone while we are on the topic of raves and
religion, here is a post I copied from a newgroup a
few weeks back. It’s an article written by the
Jehovah’s witnesses on the rave culture... pretty
interesting reading 

=====

Excerpts from "Are Raves Harmless Fun," Awake!
magazine, published by Watch Tower Bible and Tract
Society of Canada, of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Put simply, techno refers to electronic dance music.
It includes many styles. Most people would describe
techno as rythmic, for it usually ranges between 115
and 160 beats per minute. "To the uninitiated," says
The European, "techno sounds like the noises you hear
when you sit in the dentist's chair coupled with the
noises you imagine their were the night Sodom and
Gomorrah got hit." Some listeners, however, are
captivated by techno's steady beat. "For me," says 18
year old Christine, "this music gives the feeling of 
unlimited freedom and independence." Sonja, feels
similarly. "At first," she admits, "I didn't like
techno music at all but the more you listen to it,
the more acceptable it becomes. If you turn it up
real loud, you can hardly escape the pounding beat.
You move automatically. If you're not careful, the
beat controls your whole body." Shirley, aged 19,
sees something deeper in techno. "It's more than just
music. It's a whole way of life, expressed in
clothing and language."

Christians desire to "keep on making sure of what is
acceptable to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:10) Therefore,
they should use caution with techno, just as they
would with any other style of music. If you find
yourself drawn to techno, ask yourself: "How does
this style of music affect me? Does it make me feel
happy, calm and peaceful? Or does it rile me up,
perhaps even inciting angry or immoral thoughts? Will
my
attraction to this music style draw me closer to its
lifestyle? Would I be tempted to attend a rave to
hear this style of music or dance to it?"

Really, the bottom line is this: Whatever your taste
in music, never allow it to come between you and your
heavenly father.

Other quotable moments in the Rave article:

Things to think about before attending a rave:

Are they following the bible's admonition to "cleanse
themselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit"?
(Corinthians 7:1)

Do the morals of those who frequent raves harmonize
in the standards found in God's Word, the Bible?

Do I want to spend all night with those who are
"lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God"? (2
Timothy 3:4)

Since revelries, or "wild parties", are condemned in
the Bible, would your presence at a rave enable you
to maintain a clear conscience before God and men?
(Galatians 5:21)






P*L*U*R*
General E
http://www.users.cts.com/king/p/pala/index.htm




 















From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 23:09:51 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:21:15 -0800
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Ok lovely plury fun tastical filled furry raver friends
Its.... STEALTHY..... its SEXY.......

its the place to listen to GOOD MUSIC from my record crate, some good
Real Audio Mixes..... Some Articles of recent parties.. with pictures....
plus I'm adding a whole bunch more... you have to at least check it out, 
I'm wondering if any of you scrubbers will mutually link with me etc.....
if you have a web page yourself

if you have been there befor, you will not really recognize it now....
its gotten better I think... but you let me know what it lacks or
whatever... thanks I appreciate it!!!!!

Since I'm still NOT SMOKING... this is what my mind has been focusing on,
hehe

http://www.djmike.com/promomag

Jaylee
"I've seen things... you people wouldn't believe..........."
http://www.djmike.com/promomag
jasonelee@juno.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 18 23:46:53 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:31:09 -0800
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: The New Law...
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At 12:51 PM -0800 1/15/98, fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>* sherry * wrote:
>>
>> ****************  SMOKING KILLS  *****************
>>
>>       what more needs to be said!!!!!!!!
>>
>> **************************************************
>>
>> mercury
>
>
>Actually smoking doesnt kill.
>I used to suck...( on cigs) and quit about 8 years ago.

Cigarettes do kill unless it is unprocessed tobacco.  That crap RJ Reynolds
and the like put out is sheer poison.  It is another thing to smoke, in
moderation, PURE tobacco.

<snip>

>Many indians believe that tobacco is sacred and that smoking
>a small amount, like a handfull a week or less is actually
>healing and part of many healing rituals just like marijauna.
>It is the abuse and lack of RESPECT for the tobacco spirits
>that kill. Like anything else, it is the abuse that kills.

Excellent point.

<snip, the rest of your comments are on the mark>

>
>As hospitals are finding out, trying to create a perfectly
>sterile enviormnent will eventually backfire. Now our hospitals
>are some of the most dangerous places to be and we now have
>mutant viruses that are  threatening to wipe out
>the human race. So a little bit of smoke or anything else
>is not in itself a bad thing, its the abuse that causes problems.
>
>Its interesting how much wisdom is in that word PLUR. I certainly
>have not mastered plur but i find that thinking of things from
>a perspective that includes plur and especially respect is
>a way that i am finding ways to improve my life.
>
>	><{{{">  <"}}}><

Agreed 100% fine point esp. the ponts on nativism vs western sterile ways
of doing things.

Peace out,
John


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 00:02:30 1998
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http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/3420/

Let me know what you think


-Sean


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Freak Zone!
(415) 227-7421
email: freak_zone@bigfoot.com
www: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/3420/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 00:13:17 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:02:37 EST
To: dreamer@ziplink.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org, glittergirl@value.net
Subject: SOMETHING REALLY ANNOYING ABOUT SFRAVES!!!!!!
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There is one pet peeve that i have at this moment about SFRAVES....when you
copy something and put it on your post.....please write your post on the
top.....it is sooooooooo annoying to have to scroll down to find what ever it
is you have to say.....if everyone could please just write your post on top,
my life would be so much better.....tee hee.....hey some people get annoyed by
strange things....anyone else have anything they would like to share????

                 *****~~~~*****I LUV YOU GUYS*****~~~~*****
xxXXxXxxXooooOOoOoXXxXxXxxXXooOOoOoOooXXxXxxXxXOoooOOOooOOOoXxXX

                            <3*MushyB! aka Melissa

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 00:19:00 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:23:23 -0700
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From: Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com>
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Hey everyone,

There's a new techno weekly kicking off tonight at Kate O'Brien's.
Resident djs for the weekly are myself, Jon Santos, Darin Marshall, Markus
Miller, Positive P, and Kit Clayton, representing the One Trak Mind and
Belief Systems crews.

Guests tonight will be Jun of UmojaHiFi (LA) and tentatively DJ Bone from
Detroit (still waiting on a confirmation from him).

As far as we know, this will be the only all techno weekly in the Bay Area,
so we hope all you techno freaks will come out and support us!

Sabotage
Sunday nights 10pm-2am
3 bux
21+
at Kate O'Brien's: 2nd/Howard, SF

-Seth

|| d  j  .  s  u  t  e  k  h
|| b e l i e f - s y s t e m s
|| http://www.belief-systems.com
|| http://www.nodeOne.com/static
|| http://oms1.berkeley.edu/KALX



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 00:19:25 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
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Damn.... that was a pretty decent party :)
Excellent sound in all the rooms... a first for any SF massive I've been 
to ;)
There were all kinds of flavours of music that I was able to jump around 
to...i dont know the names.. but it was exciting...
the hip-hop was a nice touch IMO.
I personally like to listen to hip-hop.. the sloWer beats allow for 
Complex movements that wouls otherwise be hard to feel with that bOOm 
BOOm.... but its all good :)
wow!..as im writing this, im listening to this funk cd and George 
Clinton is shouting "We just Dont stop We're gonna drive ya nuts... like 
Planet Rock "   hehehe
back to review-->
i met some sfr peeps.... the TeKno Diva.& nIk
And jeremy.. 
I also saw this breaker i know from so-cal.. strange shit.
Ummm oh..
lets see
White lines, vision dreams of passion....  hells jeah!
i got tired early which was strange 'cause i was sober ( i dont count 
being stoned as really being fucked up seeeing that im stoned a 
relatively large portion of each day; it's like the norm ;)

so i went home a little earlier.. 
I got presale for love affair :)

ok..
Bye bye
Philip
disordr
I'm hungry








From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 00:36:17 1998
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A long time ago Ran D. Dreams wrote:
> 
>  Just so folks know; There is talk of starting an email list for light
> show/visuals artists. At the moment we are looking for someone who would
> host the list for us. Strictly a non-profit. information and connection
> service. Any info would be appreciated.
> 
> hugz,
> 
> Ran D. Dreams_


Each month OakNet Publishing sends free emailed newsletters on a
variety of topics to over 20,000 subscribers around the world.
Our readers enjoy quality publications on  topics such  as Web
page development and the Internet, Windows 95, job opportunities,
public relations, hobby products, gardening, astrology, vacation
destinations, sales and marketing, living abroad, hurricane
information and more.          Come join us, it's free!

http://www.oaknetpub.com/

This is a place we can get a free mailing list to discuss visuals.
I am also working on setting up a list for raves interested in discussing
the ancient concept of going to a rave to be part of life changing
experience as opposed to just getting wasted and entertained.
Im also putting together a list for astrology/art and healing.
Im buying a new computer in feb or march and should have what i need
by april to give birth to these projects along with the art partys.
Anyone interested in any of this, check out the above site
or let me know how you would like to be apart of this or any
other of the fishy things i do.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 00:43:46 1998
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From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
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Actually I have to agree with You 'Trice... I thought that overall... planet rock
did not suck as bad as everyone expected it to.  The setup was decent, the DJ's
were great, and the crowd (of ravers) that were there seemed like they had a great
time.  Most of the NON Ravers cut out early, leaving a shit load of damage and
vandalism behind, but also allowing for a good positive energy to fill the event.
At the end.. there were still 1500 people dancing their asses of in the main
room... and none of them wanted to leave... so I would definitely say it was a
good event.

TeKnODiVa wrote:

>  my short attention span led me outside with SunE to find
> THree HUGE bouncy castles =)  Oh YAY! Let's forget about safety hazards for a
> moment.... there's just something about being on a huge, enclosed trampoline
> while hard techno is pounding that gets me going.  At least until we were
> joined by some ruffians who tipped the whole thing over and sent  SunE and Me
> diving for the exit.  I also heard later on in the night someone tried to
> sneak into the party by jumping off the roof and using the bouncy castles to
> break their fall.  This was the supposed reason for them being shut down. I
> also heard there was an ambulance involved??  Let's think people... it's not
> worth risking your life to get to a party.

Yep he sure did.... climbed onto the roof from the parking lot and jumped on the
thing, slammed against the ground... BOUNCED into the air... Landed on his ass...
got up and BOLTED into the party... One of the stupidest thinks i have ever seen
anyone ever do to save money... without any consideration for saving your life.

and there Was ONLY ONE ambulance call... Which is amazing for a party of such a
diverse crowed of 5500 people.  Only a handful of fights... and one Naked guy.   I
was overall very happy with the   event.. considering all the crap that went wrong
at last years party in April.

I figured that the promoter MUST have done something right... because  the rain
just seemed to have stooped long enough for them to have their party and then
started up again...  Karma must work in mysterious ways.. or maybe he just sold
his soul to the Devil????  Who knows... any way... it was an OK event, with a
spotty vibe.. but overall a 7/10 in my opinion.

Keep it real... Vlad





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 01:40:22 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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I would just like to say that this post is about Ecstacy.
Has anyone heard of this pressed tab of e called Waffles??
It is a big square. It is scored horizontally and vertically into 4
pieces. One friend of mine took one of these. He took the whole tab and
said he was on e for 3 days or so. I saw him on Tuesday and his eyes
were still dialted. At Planet Crock my friend bought a waffle. She split
it with another friend. They both puked hellza hard and dry heaved worse
than they ever had. One of them felt it and has been eing for at least
18 hours so far. What the hell is this shit???
Somone said it was like PMDA or PMEA or PMS or something. If anyone knwo
about this post please.
Love,
Paul*E*wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 01:56:29 1998
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Starchild wrote:

> Hi again Vlad,
>
>         In one of our recent exchanges, you wrote:
>
> >That is one of the big difference between UG and Massives...(in my
> >VERY generalized definition) is that UG's thrive on the community support, and
> >Massive's utilize Industry resources.   Now this is in no way an exact
> >definition by any means, but it is a prime factor in the obvious nature of
> >the two
> >distinct operations.
>
>         My understanding of what you were trying to say is that people on
> SFRaves should not confuse massives with undergrounds and try to hold the
> former to the standards of the latter, since they are two different things.

Yes.. This I agree with also.    But at the same time I feel that... a Massive can
Have an UG feel... and a Large UG can be seen by some as a massive.   And event
though a large UG can be a massive... a massive can never be an UG.  That is one of
the things that We have always tried to accomplish with FGE events... to create
that big party with that small party feeling.  Our events ar just REAL BIG
undeground parties.   :)

>         However I notice you've used the words "Underground Carnival" as
> part of the name of your upcoming Valentine's Day massive.  Do you have any
> concern that with this title you may be misleading people into expecting
> this will be an "underground" type event with a community, rather than an
> industry feel to it?

I'm assuming that by "Industry Feel" you mean "Commercial" or "Mainstream"   if so
then the answer is NO.  It is in no way my intention to misleading anyone.  The
title and the flyer speak for themselves.   This event Will be an Underground
Carnival.  The name of the party is Love A-Fair... as in Fair, or carnival, or
festival...etc.   This is the Theme of the party... and at the same token it's
about the Love Affair that people have with raving, the underground scene, the
music... etc.   In addition... its our 6 year birthday party, and it falls on
Valentines day.  When you put it all together.. you have the makings of an
incredible and very memorable event.

>         Or are you trying to design and promote this event in a
> community-supported manner?

Well... we hope that the 'community' will back this event.. but if  'it' doesn't...
it will still go off.  The only difference is that some people will miss out on a
great party.   It would be a dream of mine coming true if I were to have the
support of an entire "community" behind my event...  But its just a dream...   No
matter how hard you try.. there is very little that can be done to be able to
satisfy everyone... So the best you can do is do the best you can, and believe in
yourself, and what your doing... and not trip out on the people that don't like
it.  Because if your intentions are good... then you will always satisfy the
majority... and that's the focus.  If you apply to much effort into TURNING the
minority... you become distracted from your vision, and do not accomplish your
goals.And as far as communities go... when you think of communities... You think of
a large group of people with common interest that SUPPORT each other, and help each
other out... an maintain a common fundamental integrity.  Be honest an tell me if
the definition of community applies to this entire rave scene???    SFRaves is a
community within our large scene... but that's as good as it gets.
Our parties are open to everyone that wishes to come out and enjoy them.  But this
scene is way to open ended, with far to many Diverse individualities to really fit
the idealistic community profile.   Therefore... the best we hope to accomplish is
to create a feeling of community within our event.   That's were the VIBE or a
Community feeling exists... everything else is just a bunch of hype.

Keep it Real... Vlad



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 02:03:29 1998
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From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))
References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com> 		"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14  
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Ok.. Your right... Even I can Be in asshole sometimes.   I am very familiar with
the History of BGP... and I know VERY many people involved in their
organization... and even more people that used to be involved with them.  And
just like you said...  It's all nice and fine to think of a person for their
intentions.. but look at them now.  They have some very ruthless plans for our
scene and it's just to disturbing to talk about... and I don't want to add to
the rummer mill.  But basically today's PGP is despicable.  Phred was right on
the money when he said that when Bill died... the integrity of BGP died also.
So I do apologize to Phred for JUST the BGP/role model part of my reply... but
the rest of it stands as written.

And John ...You're right also...  I do think about money and return as the
principle aspect of my equation.  But not for the reasons you may want to
believe.    If you really care to know... Its because the more money my events
generate.. the more I can put back into the community as donations to
charities.   Also, the money I make (when this happens) is put back into making
the next event even better... not into some secret swiss numbered bank
account... or some shit like that.  And by Involving all my friends into the
event, I have a financial responsibility to them... and even though I want to
support my friends, I do NOT want to go broke doing it.  I also have a family to
consider.   Unlike other 'massives' out there... if you took the time to look
closely at any of our flyers you will se that we work PRIMARILY (95%) within OUR
local scene...  Keeping the money here were it belongs.  distributing it from
the ravers to the production personnel; local
dj's,spound,lighting,lasers,designers....etc.  Not wasting it on big name acts ,
air fare, and hospitality or novelty gimmicks... but keeping it REAL... and
putting it into the party... and giving it back to the community.
And as far as motivations go... " putting the good of the people in front of
yourself".  Well if I thought about myself first I Would NEVER be doing this.  I
graduated from the San Jose State School of Engineering with a degree in
Industrial and Systems Engineering.  It would not be hard for me to find a nice
and cushy corporate job, with a high 6 digit annual salary.  But I do this
because I enjoy it (call me crazy) and all my friends (promoters, dj's,
production, designers) are in this scene, and supporting them, by involving them
all in my events, makes me feel good.   So now, if you chose to believe what I
just wrote, You may understand a little bit more about my motivations.  And when
I do win the lottery, I will still throw parties.... except they will be for
FREE.

Keep it real...   Vlad

John S. Lee wrote:

> At 8:30 PM -0800 1/16/98, Ray Vonie wrote:
> >Phred, it sounds to me like you think: That promoters are useless amateur
> >hustlers that lie, and exploit the ravers who are just a bunch of gullible
> >sheep that waste their time in our adolescent scene which exists without
> >purpose, and Bill Graham (whose company is about to stars strip-mining this
> >scene) is some sort of role model.
>
> Are you kidding?  First of all Fred knows what is up!  Next, EVERYONE WHO
> DOES MASSIVES IS STRIP MINING THIS SCENE!
>
> C'mon let's get very, very, real.  When you have money in the equation, it
> eclipses everything else.  The second you have to worry about returns, is
> the second your party has changed it's purpose.
>
> Facts of life.
>
> Fred also didn't hold Bill G up as a role model.  He was showing how anyone
> with good intentions changes when money is involved.  I am no different,
> and neither is anyone else.
>
> Few are the warriors who are motivated by the good of the people.  For if
> this paradigm wasn't true, everyone would be doing everything for free.
>
> My .02 about my man, the properly right Rev. Fred!
>
> And he ain't no White Boy either.
>
> Peace,
> john
>
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 02:17:16 1998
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Break Dancer wrote:

> so i went home a little earlier..
> I got presale for love affair :)
>

Right ON!!!!!!     actualy Lauras Friend April, baught her the first ticket
sold to Love A-Fair '89.   Thanks guys.... for all your support. :)

Keep it Real.... Vlad


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 02:18:45 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:16:16 EST
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a friend of mine had a similar experience....IMO, sounds a lot 
like atropine....Try this site -- http://ecstasy.org/atropine.html

the pills you describe (square, scored into fours....) are exactly what 
some dude sold my friends and they were *messed* up (not necessarily
in a good way) for quite a while.  =(

be careful sweetie,
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 02:41:34 1998
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References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com> 		"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14  
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Ray,

So I, as well as others, might better judge your position, can you give me the
mission statement behind your parties?

I saw that you commented on giving back to the community, etc. 

Are you running a business? Are you running a non-profit? 

But more importantly, what is your mission statement for the event?

This will help, I think, clarify for people who may have a problem with the
integrity of massives and a select number of parties. 

If more promoters made their mission statement public and open for discussion
I think that we would all be able to figure out who we should support and who
we should not.
(you know - ferret out those decietful little bastards! <---JOKE! ;)  ) 

Subversion happens when intentions are hidden. Anyway, it would be easier to
tell the difference between someone wh was just trying to throw a party that
had techno music and that person that was trying to make a statement about
rave oriented "plur" (for example). 

Part of being a promoter is being held accountable for your actions before,
during, and after your event. Especially in the Rave scene (for what it is worth).

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

p.s. Furthermore, some promoters can throw parties for *only* money, but
provide a kick-ass vibe and a great party. In these instances, no one cares
about their intentions, really. I, for one, wouldn't care, given they put all
the right pieces together for our experience. If it was in their mission
statement to make a profit as well as put together a PLUR filled event, hey,
more power to 'em. And better yet, make it known publicly. That's honest,
upfront, and open.
I don't understand how the inclusion of making money automatically excludes
the possibility of doing something good. They can co-exist successfully. This
is what, I think, Ray is talking about. If promoters would make their mission
statments public, then any misperceptions would be eliminated fairly fast.
Nothing straightens people up like real accountability (pun intended)!
Shoot, if a promoter can make great parties and make a living off of it at the
same time, we should all be happy for them (and probably be a little envious
as well). 

;)

Damn, that was a long p.s.





> And John ...You're right also...  I do think about money and return as the
> principle aspect of my equation.  But not for the reasons you may want to
> believe.    If you really care to know... Its because the more money my events
> generate.. the more I can put back into the community as donations to
> charities.   Also, the money I make (when this happens) is put back into making
> the next event even better... not into some secret swiss numbered bank
> account... or some shit like that.  And by Involving all my friends into the
> event, I have a financial responsibility to them... and even though I want to
> support my friends, I do NOT want to go broke doing it.  I also have a family to
> consider.   Unlike other 'massives' out there... if you took the time to look
> closely at any of our flyers you will se that we work PRIMARILY (95%) within OUR
> local scene...  Keeping the money here were it belongs.  distributing it from
> the ravers to the production personnel; local
> dj's,spound,lighting,lasers,designers....etc.  Not wasting it on big name acts ,
> air fare, and hospitality or novelty gimmicks... but keeping it REAL... and
> putting it into the party... and giving it back to the community.
> And as far as motivations go... " putting the good of the people in front of
> yourself".  Well if I thought about myself first I Would NEVER be doing this.  I
> graduated from the San Jose State School of Engineering with a degree in
> Industrial and Systems Engineering.  It would not be hard for me to find a nice
> and cushy corporate job, with a high 6 digit annual salary.  But I do this
> because I enjoy it (call me crazy) and all my friends (promoters, dj's,
> production, designers) are in this scene, and supporting them, by involving them
> all in my events, makes me feel good.   So now, if you chose to believe what I
> just wrote, You may understand a little bit more about my motivations.  And when
> I do win the lottery, I will still throw parties.... except they will be for
> FREE.
> 
> Keep it real...   Vlad
> 
> John S. Lee wrote:
> 
> > At 8:30 PM -0800 1/16/98, Ray Vonie wrote:
> > >Phred, it sounds to me like you think: That promoters are useless amateur
> > >hustlers that lie, and exploit the ravers who are just a bunch of gullible
> > >sheep that waste their time in our adolescent scene which exists without
> > >purpose, and Bill Graham (whose company is about to stars strip-mining this
> > >scene) is some sort of role model.
> >
> > Are you kidding?  First of all Fred knows what is up!  Next, EVERYONE WHO
> > DOES MASSIVES IS STRIP MINING THIS SCENE!
> >
> > C'mon let's get very, very, real.  When you have money in the equation, it
> > eclipses everything else.  The second you have to worry about returns, is
> > the second your party has changed it's purpose.
> >
> > Facts of life.
> >
> > Fred also didn't hold Bill G up as a role model.  He was showing how anyone
> > with good intentions changes when money is involved.  I am no different,
> > and neither is anyone else.
> >
> > Few are the warriors who are motivated by the good of the people.  For if
> > this paradigm wasn't true, everyone would be doing everything for free.
> >
> > My .02 about my man, the properly right Rev. Fred!
> >
> > And he ain't no White Boy either.
> >
> > Peace,
> > john
> >
> > "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> > Narcotics

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 02:42:44 1998
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Hmmm, I know what you are talking about. Quite possibly it could be
atropine, because my friend told me that he felt like he was sorta
feeling really floaty like on special K or a robotrip/DXM. Although we
called the guy who sold it to us and he said it was MDMA with PMA. PMA
is similar to Amphetamine with some drguged/alcohol feelings and MDMA
feelings. Still this doesn't acount for why it is lasting so long.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Natasha426 wrote:
> 
> a friend of mine had a similar experience....IMO, sounds a lot
> like atropine....Try this site -- http://ecstasy.org/atropine.html
> 
> the pills you describe (square, scored into fours....) are exactly what
> some dude sold my friends and they were *messed* up (not necessarily
> in a good way) for quite a while.  =(
> 
> be careful sweetie,
> natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 02:44:59 1998
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WHoops.

Wherever I said Ray, please substitute "Vlad".

duh.

thanks,

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 03:17:40 1998
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well.....what can i say..that party kicked ASS.  =)

It seems like some of the UG's are getting better and better.  

The night starts at 11 with me looking for the the party in oakland. 
I get to what i *think* is the space...only to hear no music.  I'm
like...am i at the right place??  YUP....the space is soo tight that u
can't even hear the sound from the street.

I go in and find Andy W.'s sound system BOOMING in a nice lil
warehouse/loft space.

J. Bot is throwing down some nice...chunky...smooth techno.  This kid
is good...if u get a chance to, check him out.

The space and vibe are tight.  Bunches of cool kids having fun.  This
is why i like the underground so much.  Nice, small, tight parties
with no ambulance calls, figts, etc.  I'm not dissing
massives.....just re-affirming my beliefs.  =)

After my set macadio proceeds to throw down a fat trancey-techno set. 
I really like where he is headed with his music.  Unfortunately i
missed drenalins set, but am sure that it was tight.

i give the party a 9.5/10.  Good job mack-daddio.

watch for his next party...coming out soon.

=)
micron







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 05:11:35 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:10:20 EST
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hi everyone,
      i just heard that roni size and uberzone did remixes of the sarah
mclachlan song "sweet surrender". if anyone has seen or heard this track, i
would love to know where you found it.

thanks in advance,
dorena

p.s. for you sarah mclachlan fans on the list, she will be performing in
sacramento on march 7th and in san jose on march 9th. tickets for the sac.
show go on sale on jan. 31st and feb. 1st for the san jose show. for more
info., you can check out www.sarahmclachlan.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 06:55:04 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: The "Unghetto" & Oprah :)
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  Now let's just stop all of this right now!  I have been a Ghetto Child 
for quite some time now and the fact that my Ghetto Family can't afford 
to live in the city and can only afford to live in the depths of the 
forest like I'm a fairy, or a nome or something doesn't mean you can 
pick only on me..  
   Ghetto children are everywhere.   Paul you're from the ghetto, and so 
are you AndyW (but your's is a nice ghetto with many pink flowers) The 
only person in our society that is not ghetto like all of us is my 
cancerian goddess Oprah Winfrey.  She is supreme, a diety with once 
erect nipples seen all around the world, who does not rave, but diets 
and spends money. mmmm!  If you aren't Oprah, you are ghetto, live with 
it.  Don't bother calling somebody else ghetto because they'll probably 
bash you in the head with a big, rare, and highly expensive rubber stamp 
that says "No Shit! and do you know where the closest Starbucks is?"

  We all have to deal with eachother at some point and my time is now, 
so I am going to try something new,  We are not Ghetto, we are 
"Un-ghetto" and human. Oprah, sorry to break yer heart girl, but you are 
one of us now!! ha ha ha :P  We are everywhere  and us people who love 
mudslides and hate the rain, but have no choice but to deal with it and 
our parents who smoke too much grass man, yes, that is right, we are 
ghetto too, oops sorry, un-ghetto.
  now on to something worth my time,  "I need toilet paper damn it!"


Peace,
bAByHueY

>From sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 16 
18:18:29 1998
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>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:18:07 -0800 (PST)
>From: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
>X-Sender: andy@atari
>Reply-To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
>To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
>cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: What is a Ghetto Child?
>In-Reply-To: <34BFD006.50943861@geocities.com>
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>
>On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
>
>> GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
>  (x 22 in case you're counting)
>
>Okay, so it's not racist... then what is it Paul?
>
>And I suppose it's not classist either... *yawn*.  So what does it mean
>Paul... care to share with the class?
>
>> And i am not 14 years old Tweaker Man. And the ghetto children post 
did
>> not have to do with planet rock it had to do with a Planet New Year 
by
>> COOL WORLD productions. Totaly differnet rave. Totally differnet
>> production.  
>> 
>> And i am not promoting for Planet Rock and I am going there and I can
>> call it the FUNK PHENOMENOM for all i care or i can call it a TECHNO
>> LOVE FESTIVAL it doesn't matter. It's a rave and i am going wether 
they
>> are giving away free crack or not for the first 100 people in the 
door.
>> Which they are not. 
>
>Of course not, they'll make more money selling it  <-- joke...
>
>I'm not arguing with you going to Planet Rock... I have other plans, it
>has no affect on my sorry ass life.  (I've never spent $30 on a rave
>either, but I assume no GHETTO CHILDREN can afford it, so it must be
>okay).
>
>> Here is the term for GHETTO CHILDREN that was NOT started by me.
>> GHETTO CHILDREN does = people who look ghetto.
>> ghetto is a slang term used by african american, caucasian, hispanic,
>> etc. etc. teenagers. If you don't know what it means than don't worry
>> about it. 
>
>What?  If you're not in the know then what?  Do you realize how 
backwards
>this whole post seems from here?  Could you take some time to write an
>explanation of "GHETTO CHILDREN" that doesn't alienate people?  If not
>ghetto children, we'll give partial points for GHETTO. 
>
>Maybe you don't know me.  I sometimes help throw parties.  I believe I 
was
>involved in no less than half of your "fave" parties of last year.  
You've
>danced in front of my speakers, and I've picked up after your trash.  
We
>probably have a love for music, having fun, finding that place where 
you
>can be yourself with people you just met, and a few friends in common.
>I don't expect everybody to "get it", but I can't see someone
>understanding the joy within, and then turning around and calling 
people,
>any people that would attend those same events "ghetto children".  Do 
they
>not go to events where I go?  Could you point one out?  How is a ghetto
>child different?
>
>Let me start guessing here:
>
>It could be a socioeconomic group: the down and outs, the lower 
class... I
>was raised poor, does that make me a ghetto child?
>
>Could it be the less combly, the stinky, those who let go a little too
>much from time to time... do they stop being ghetto children if they
>shower?
>
>It could be a reference to an unfashionable style of dress.  Now I know
>you're fashion conscious, but I don't think you'd dis people just 
because
>they don't dress "cool"... especially going so far as to avoid raves 
where
>they are present... I mean, think how great you'd look in comparison.
>
>It could be a codename for another group that you either lack the
>vocabulary or guts to announce to the group here.
>
>Look, you don't need to explain yourself, but that statement "if you 
don't
>know what it means then don't worry about it" is just about as elitist 
as
>it gets (like those Harley license plates... if I have to explain, you
>wouldn't understand)... I personally would REALLY like to know what it
>means, but I think my guess is correct, and I will continue to judge 
you
>with that assumption until you clarify further. 
>
>> 
>> That is that. Forget about it and don't bring up past shit that isn't
>> important anywyay. It just creats DRAMA.
>
>You're referring to a nameless mass of people, that you cannot 
succesfully
>describe to a understanding, caring bunch of people you consistently 
claim
>to love, and then say don't worry about it?
>
>Listen to yourself.
>
>Okay...
>
>Let's just assume I just got off the boat here, I speak English but 
lack
>knowledge of many of the idioms and slang used here and that's all you
>know about me.  You have a guy come up and offer you a thousand dollars 
if
>you can get me to understand what a Ghetto Child is...  well?  Can you
>explain?  In no vague terms?  I want to know... I mean, what if me or 
one
>of my friends are a ghetto child?
>
>I'm just confused at this point... there seems to be a lot of terms 
that
>have some racial loading that get used a bit, and when push comes to 
shove
>they just can't seem to explain why so and so, the cool raver, is
>different than the gangsta/ghetto child/untouchable.  Is it that they
>don't have a comuputer (technophobe)?  They're not on SFRaves
>(connectivity challenged)?  Wear Dickies instead of JNCOs (thrifty, 
poor)? 
>They are new to the scene (september child, newbie)?  Well? 
>
>If you thought about raving and all the other good stuff, you'd realize
>this is for everyone who is lame enough to commit a night to spending 
it
>with other equally lame folk under the stars, in a scary location, at a
>beach, in a house, on the run, in love with the music.  I don't 
understand
>the idea of a class of people that somehow shouldn't be involved,
>especially one I can't explain.
>
>We don't make parties $5 or $10 so people can save money, we do it for 
two
>reasons... we figured out that we should break even at that price, and 
we
>hope to get anyone who wants to go to our event there, not just those 
who
>can afford it.
>
>Peace,
>AndyW
>
>p.s.	I realize we're having a heated discussion here, but I don't hate
>you or anything like that, I'm just having a lot of trouble 
understanding
>your viewpoint here on account of one term, and I just can't seem to
>figure it out despite my honest attempts to understand.
>
>"there is saurkraut in my leiderhosen"
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 07:43:09 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:44:01 -0800
From: Junichi Nakagawa <jun@concentric.net>
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Hi all.

My name is Jun. I'm a Japanese student currentry studying at Cal State
Univ fullerton in So. Cal(anyone around here?). I'm studying about
popular culture as a graduate sudent but not in a "academic way". I like
to go into the scene and share my time, make friends and do my paper
work from "a part of the scene" viewpoint. I know what I'm saying sounds
boring and sucks( I totally agree..) but I just like to have fun and
make new friends in different country and like to write about it. 

So, just started subscribing this list. I'm totally new to rave scene.
Don't know what to wear, what music I should listen to, where to
go..even though I jumped around a couple of rave web pages. I would
appreciate if you could give me some tips. I'll be in SF from next
Tuesdaty through Feb 1st and will come to SF any time I can spare time.
I am usually walking around Haight Ashbury wearing Black pull-over with
a black back-pack. If you saw me, just give me a kick from the back or
just say "hi"  :-)

Soory about my 'not good' English!  :-)

Junichi Nakagawa
California State University, Fullerton
American Studies
jun@concentric.net

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 07:55:46 1998
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Junichi Nakagawa wrote:

> I am usually walking around Haight Ashbury wearing Black pull-over with
> a black back-pack. If you saw me, just give me a kick from the back or
> just say "hi"  :-)

oh so youre the one in black...i think i may have seen you.

	><{{{">   <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 08:01:58 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:58:49 -0800 (PST)
From: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: PlaNeT CrOCk ReVue
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>, TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
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THe music was great.. the vibe sucked...but i was
happy to see.. 'trice...nik..philly...vlad...marQ...i
heard sum opf the best jungle i had ever heard last
nite... danny da wild child... that scratching..
wow...and yes of course stareyes...the music was
great the vibe sucked.... i cant say that enough...
well lotsa love jeremy




===

~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~









From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 08:59:23 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:56:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
cc: Break Dancer <breaker2000@hotmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: ,-*'^'~*-,._.,-*~>PlAnEt RoCk ReViEw,-*'^'~*-,._.,-*~
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hell fuckin yeah!
actually vlad, it's LARA (no U)
told you kidz i was excited to go!
;))
xo
lara

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Ray Vonie wrote:

> 
> 
> Break Dancer wrote:
> 
> > so i went home a little earlier..
> > I got presale for love affair :)
> >
> 
> Right ON!!!!!!     actualy Lauras Friend April, baught her the first ticket
> sold to Love A-Fair '89.   Thanks guys.... for all your support. :)
> 
> Keep it Real.... Vlad
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 09:45:05 1998
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Come on now.

It was a *black back-pack*. 

I know I've seen her.

Didn't bother to kick anything, tho.

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com


fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> 
> Junichi Nakagawa wrote:
> 
> > I am usually walking around Haight Ashbury wearing Black pull-over
> with
> > a black back-pack. If you saw me, just give me a kick from the back
> or
> > just say "hi"  :-)
> 
> oh so youre the one in black...i think i may have seen you.
> 
>         ><{{{">   <"}}}><
> 
>                 foolish fish

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 13:56:30 1998
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Reply-To: <info@funkytekno.com>
From: "Funky Tekno Tribe Sound System" <Info@FunkyTekno.com>
To: "SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: FTT National Tour 1998
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:48:21 -0800
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Hey everyone... we're embarking on yet another national tour over the next
few months... with some confirmed dates. Any interested parties... please
contact me. I'll send out information about the seperate parties later...

Mohan
FTT


FUNKY TEKNO TRIBE DJ TOUR 1998
Feb - April 98

Featuring FTT Residents
DJ SNEAK
DJ DAN
GRAEME
TONY
DONALD GLAUDE
BARRY WEAVER
TONY
JENO

Confirmed dates
Feb 14th    Chicago
Feb 21st    Los Angeles
Feb 28th    Seattle
March 9th   Miami

Promoters interested in hosting us please contact Mohan via email at
mohan@funkytekno.com





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 14:04:04 1998
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From: "Funky Tekno Tribe Sound System" <Info@FunkyTekno.com>
To: "SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: FTT Los Angeles Party February 21st
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:56:01 -0800
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CANDE PRODUCTIONS and FUNKY TEKNO TRIBE Present
Saturday February 21st

HOW SWEET IT IS...

FTT ROOM
Doc Martin, DJ Sneak, DJ Dan, Graeme, Donald Glaude, Barry Weaver

WRECK IGNITION ROOM
Deacon, Devas, Markmen, Curious, Machette, Raymond Roker, MC Kemst

HOME TOWN CONNECTION ROOM
Jason Blackmore, Thomas Micheal, Doran, Lenny V, Paolo, DJ Jasen, Jamie
Thinnes, C.Long

National Orange Show Event Center
9am - 6am
Tickets Pre-Sale $20 Door $25
info - 714-460-6947 909-778-3253 213-673-3536, 619-230-9038, 310-535-3283,
818-568-2692


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 15:01:08 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: music is the drug
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:51:40 -0800
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DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"This music is great, what are you on?"
"Music is the drug!"
..................
*laughing* I like that sig. It reminds me of this one massive party when I
must
have gotten asked 500 times for drugs. Nothing wrong with that,
but for some reason it was bugging me, guess I hadn't slept much or
something, or was wishing people could just enjoy their time and not
worry about it. I was getting really frustrated by this time.

While I was thinking about this, a girl came up to me and said:
"Do you know where I can find any Ecstasy? I really need some."

So I grabbed her by the hand and dragged her across the party
to the speaker and pointed at it and screamed over the bass
"It's right here!"

*giggling*

She was not very appreciative unfortunately of my help.....

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 15:13:50 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Ray Vonie" <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Cc: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:04:15 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>

> So where's all this money that all these promoters are exploiting from the
rave
>scene.   Of all my years in this scene, I've only seen a select handful of
>promoters EVER able to make a living off throwing parties... and those that
>did... Still struggled financially.

I don't think he is saying that they are exploiting the scene by making
money.
I think he is saying that it shouldn't be about money, and they are
exploiting
it by connecting the two.

Of course, I could be wrong, and it's not my place to speak for fred....

>    Ok... if you want to know what promoters do.. The answer is simple...
>They are the BACKBONE of this scene.

My thoughts on this:

(this is referring to massive parties)

A promotional group  for massives is made up of anywhere from one person to
10 (at least, that is the greatest number of people i have seen successfully
organize an event...any more than that and agreement becomes difficult)

The people that attend the party are anywhere from 2,000 to 10,000 or more.

How can you say the promoters are the backbone of the scene?

If those dancing people weren't there, they would just be a bunch of
disturbed
looking folks standing around in an empty building with some angry djs
glaring at them.

>Promoters are the primary source By which this scene exists.

*rolling eyes*

Vlad...how did you get started in promoting?

also...was that your letter in XLR8R? If so, can you explain?

-kim, from seattle, who has never met Vlad but found the
XLR8R letter a bit disturbing......
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 15:20:07 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Paul Hayden" <goodvibe@geocities.com>
Cc: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: legalizing MDMA (reply to paul)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:10:27 -0800
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i doubt they will. they have prozac so effectively marketed
that it would be a loss of money to go through all the court
procedures to get mdma legal and then market it.

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: DRUGS - DEA finds sufficient grounds to reschedule marijuana
(fwd)


>It's about time!! When will they Re-Schedule MDMA,MDEA,& MBDB, as
>prescription drugs for very mildly depressed people. When will it
>happen?? Someone please tell me??
>Love,
>Paul*E*Wog



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 15:59:55 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:03:01 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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If you haven't heard this CD I would suggest goin out ASAP and getting a
copy.  It is the bomb.  I just got a copy and I can say that it is one
slamming CD.  It's great to listen to, and the production is good as well.
The songs are well thought out and the mixing is excellent.  this is made
even better by the fact that this is a live CD!

Astral MAtrix has been making music for some time now.  I have his first
record and a couple of others as well.  I am also fortunate to hear some of
his work before anyone, 'cuz I'm homeys neighbor and all.  It is so good to
hear people do original compositions instead of the same ol' mix cd's and
mixtapes.  Nothing is sweeter than home spun original material, and Mr.
Matrix proves it.

If you like Astral Matrix, get this CD, if you haven't heard Astral Matrix
then this CD is one you don't want to miss to get a proper introduction.

And this is NOt a paid advert, he's good, period!

peace,
John

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 16:22:41 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:26:25 -0800
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
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Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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John,

Where can I find it to buy it?

rob
http://www.citizenmag.com

John S. Lee wrote:
> 
> If you haven't heard this CD I would suggest goin out ASAP and getting
> a
> copy.  It is the bomb.  I just got a copy and I can say that it is one
> slamming CD.  It's great to listen to, and the production is good as
> well.
> The songs are well thought out and the mixing is excellent.  this is
> made
> even better by the fact that this is a live CD!
> 
> Astral MAtrix has been making music for some time now.  I have his
> first
> record and a couple of others as well.  I am also fortunate to hear
> some of
> his work before anyone, 'cuz I'm homeys neighbor and all.  It is so
> good to
> hear people do original compositions instead of the same ol' mix cd's
> and
> mixtapes.  Nothing is sweeter than home spun original material, and
> Mr.
> Matrix proves it.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 16:32:25 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>,
  "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Cc: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR SF is the best? was: Re: Everyone pls read! Re:  !~raves and politics~!
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:22:40 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Minh Q. Le <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
>On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:
>
>> I am also tired of the "SF is the best place on earth, and the south
sucks"
>> attitude:
>
>-->Well, that's because it's true, so there :)

Admittedly, I have not yet lived in SF. I am currently living in Seattle,
and
dream of moving there. But I have lived in the south (North Carolina)
and spent much time in the states in between there and Florida, where my
grandma lives, so I feel justified in commenting.

True, SF is amazing. But I feel the south has an unfair stereotype.
True, there are racist and prejudiced people there. But, unfortunately,
there are prejudiced people everywhere, who come in every color and
gender. =(

I agree with John. I don't think there is a difference in the amount of
racism between SF and the south. I think people are just more overt/
obvious about it in the south.

Oftentimes people are afraid to not be "politically correct" so they will
hide their opinions or act it out in some other way rather than
verbally.....
and while i don't live in SF, i feel fairly certain that it has some
prejudiced
people in it........

Where I lived (Raleigh) it didn't seem any more prejudiced
to me than any other place I have lived or travelled to (up and down
the east and west coasts of the U.S. and canada...)

There's actually a lot of interesting things about the south
U.S....sunrises,
thunderstorms, the way that people act, the accent, etc....to say it is
"all bad" is silly....there is no "all bad" or "all good" place, it's all in
your mind...

-kim

.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 17:06:31 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: DERROGATORY..was What is a Ghetto Child?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:07:41 -0800
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Hey guess I'm ghetto cuz I'm a "Mick"
;-)

MooK<><

-----Original Message-----
From: John S. Lee <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
Cc: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>; sfraves@hyperreal.org
<sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 11:45 AM
Subject: DERROGATORY..was What is a Ghetto Child?


>At 6:18 PM -0800 1/16/98, AndyW wrote:
>>On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
>>
>>> GHETTO CHILDREN does NOT = AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE
>>  (x 22 in case you're counting)
>
>Here, let me cut right to the point since this is a stupid thread, and I'm
>tired of people dancing around words, or trying to redefine them to suit
>their own political purposes, and I'm sick and tired of ghetto this and
>that spouted by a bunch of middle & upper middle class people:
>
>CRACKER, PECKERWOOD, NIGGER, JUNGLE BUNNY, SPIC, BEANER, DAYGO, WOP, KIKE,
>HEBE, MICK, POTATO HEAD, POLOCK, INJUN, DOT HEAD, CHINK, NIP.
>
>"Ghetto" belongs with them.
>
>I am so glad to understand the "goodness" of humanity exemplified above,
>and so very happy to know that as we approach the 21st century, our species
>still hasn't gotten out of the mud.
>
>If this continues I gurantee we will go nowhere.  We will annihilate each
>other.
>
>When. dear g-d, will this sorry ass species stop the bullshit and get on
>with the real deal.
>
>Please do everyone a favor lord and start over, this experiment is a total
>failure.  Do us a favor an erase us, for we really haven't learned one
>fucking thing in 10,000 years.
>
>Thanks g_d.
>
>;(,
>John
>
>
>
>"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
>Narcotics
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 17:28:11 1998
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From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
In-Reply-To: <v03102803b0e92998768c@[209.133.7.194]>
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  Yes! Astral Matrix is one of my favorites - Hi Andrew! -
a very talented guy=)...where can one find this CD??
                    
                                  -Reagan


On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:

> If you haven't heard this CD I would suggest goin out ASAP and getting a
> copy.  It is the bomb.  I just got a copy and I can say that it is one
> slamming CD.  It's great to listen to, and the production is good as well.
> The songs are well thought out and the mixing is excellent.  this is made
> even better by the fact that this is a live CD!
> 
> Astral MAtrix has been making music for some time now.  I have his first
> record and a couple of others as well.  I am also fortunate to hear some of
> his work before anyone, 'cuz I'm homeys neighbor and all.  It is so good to
> hear people do original compositions instead of the same ol' mix cd's and
> mixtapes.  Nothing is sweeter than home spun original material, and Mr.
> Matrix proves it.
> 
> If you like Astral Matrix, get this CD, if you haven't heard Astral Matrix
> then this CD is one you don't want to miss to get a proper introduction.
> 
> And this is NOt a paid advert, he's good, period!
> 
> peace,
> John
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 17:31:58 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: First light Thanks you!!
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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I would just like to thank all that came out to
support my little par-ta It started out kind of
Sketchy and late being that I assumed that the VM
number would be able to leave long messages and it
turned out that if only supported like 30 seconds..
Doh!! so I had to revert to several different numbers
and what not. My sound and Lighting guys were not
there due to my wacky directions I think? After
stressing pretty hard and several pages and Cell
phone call's later the party was in full swing.. I
would personaly like to thank all that helped me with
the party. AndyW,Josh mitchell,Layne,Danny,
Micron,Scott nelson, Jbot, marcos, Tao ETI,
chris,terry estioko,shoot mind block it is early and
anyone else I may have missed. Sorry for those of you
that tried to attend and my have gotten lost or just
could not find the party. I think it was a decent
party not to crowded and not to few people it was
just right and the DJ's (except my set) all rocked I
personally sucked that night. Thank you guys... Look
for the next first light party coming sooon..

Peace,
Macadio (Mack-Audio)






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 17:34:06 1998
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From: MacBunny <akp2@acpub.duke.edu>
To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
cc: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>,
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to put my $0.02 in on the topic of east vs west, i am currently attending 
duke in nc and travel around a lot (va, atlanta, dc, fl) for parties and 
i've found that i definitly prefer the west coast.  i'm not just talking 
about the party scene - it's the poeple, the place, the attitude that 
makes sf my home.  i've lived there for 18 years of my life and wish i 
had decided to go to college in ca rather than out here - but i'm getting 
great expireinces that i wouldn't have gotten in california.  i'm not 
saying that the south sucks - i just can't handle living here after 
growing up in such a free environment which marin/sf gives you.  yes, the 
south does have much to offer, but i'm a cali grrrl and i always will be 
a cali grrrl.  nothing can compare to the life i have there.  i miss you all.

amber

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confucious said "To know what you know, and to know what you don't know, 
is the characteristic of one who knows."

amber perry-mcquown

Peace				akp2@acpub.duke.edu
Love				plur@radonc.duke.edu
Unity				amber@earthling.net
Respect(Rave)			http://www.duke.edu/~akp2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 17:54:28 1998
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DID i hear !!>>ASTRAL MATRIX<<!! =) live on cd?
nuff said, 
peace,
q.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 17:54:36 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:37:00 -0800
From: "LYLE, THOMAS" <LYLET@pab281a.ssd.loral.com>
Subject: NRR: Spinners
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------ =_0_MIME_Boundary_182.34c39210.imvplmp0.macpo.ssd.loral.com


This one is pretty cool.
Thomas
B-)

__________

[[ ATT1.EXE : 2363 in ATT1.EXE ]]

>
>
>>> Try this. This is Trippy.
>>> Not Recommended for those who get dizzy easily.
>>> INSTRUCTIONS:
>>> 1.    Put one hand flat on the desk
>>> 2.    Launch the attached file (pinwheel.exe)
>>> 3.    Look at the dot in the middle for about 20-25 Seconds
>>> 4.    Then without moving your hand look down at your hand

------ =_0_MIME_Boundary_182.34c39210.imvplmp0.macpo.ssd.loral.com
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="ATT1.EXE"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT1.EXE"


AAAAAAAAA=

------ =_0_MIME_Boundary_182.34c39210.imvplmp0.macpo.ssd.loral.com--

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 18:03:34 1998
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From: Steve <stevedb@best.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
cc: sfraves-digest@hyperreal.org
Subject: Help finding this record
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Calling old school record collectors .....

Does anyone have or know how to get access to an old trance record named
"Engine, engine #9" - kind of down tempo with the sound of a train passing
crescendoing and decresendoing over a  mellow 2-beat trance rhythm - 
at least that's the way I remember it - heard it 1st about 93-94, might be
older though ....

Reply stevedb@best.com
Thanx.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 18:03:33 1998
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From: Steve <stevedb@best.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Help finding this record
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Calling old school record collectors .....

Does anyone have or know how to get access to an old trance record named
"Engine, engine #9" - kind of down tempo with the sound of a train passing
crescendoing and decresendoing over a  mellow 2-beat trance rhythm - 
at least that's the way I remember it - heard it 1st about 93-94, might be
older though ....

Reply stevedb@best.com
Thanx.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 18:49:21 1998
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email axe105@aol.com...he's going to play it on subsonic next
week (saturday night/sunday morning 1a-6a 105.3fm)

Fumbler151 wrote:
> 
>       i just heard that roni size and uberzone did remixes of the sarah
> mclachlan song "sweet surrender". if anyone has seen or heard this track, i
> would love to know where you found it.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 18:56:51 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:04:18 -0800
To: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
From: astral matrix <astral@bass-station.com>
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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for those interested, the CD is availible at Housewares (1322 Haight) or
most of the other DJ record shops around the city...

...or soon even at that *other* Ameoba that opened up on Haight.

thanks,
andrew








>  Yes! Astral Matrix is one of my favorites - Hi Andrew! -
>a very talented guy=)...where can one find this CD??
>
>                                  -Reagan
>
>
>On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:
>
>> If you haven't heard this CD I would suggest goin out ASAP and getting a
>> copy.  It is the bomb.  I just got a copy and I can say that it is one
>> slamming CD.  It's great to listen to, and the production is good as well.
>> The songs are well thought out and the mixing is excellent.  this is made
>> even better by the fact that this is a live CD!
>>
>> Astral MAtrix has been making music for some time now.  I have his first
>> record and a couple of others as well.  I am also fortunate to hear some of
>> his work before anyone, 'cuz I'm homeys neighbor and all.  It is so good to
>> hear people do original compositions instead of the same ol' mix cd's and
>> mixtapes.  Nothing is sweeter than home spun original material, and Mr.
>> Matrix proves it.
>>
>> If you like Astral Matrix, get this CD, if you haven't heard Astral Matrix
>> then this CD is one you don't want to miss to get a proper introduction.
>>
>> And this is NOt a paid advert, he's good, period!
>>
>> peace,
>> John
>>
>> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
>> Narcotics
>>
>> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
>> Narcotics
>>
>>
>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 19:49:58 1998
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To: ndurham@earthlink.net
cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: track id 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 98 22:26:05 PST."
             <199801180626.WAA01779@netcom12.netcom.com> 
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 11:49:50 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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> anyone recognise this track from my vague descipt?:
>
> female vocal w/ 303 line running through it with following quotables:
> 
> "earth radiating through time and space..."
> 
> "...you are becoming aware of yourself as game master"
> 
> "...goddess earth..."

The track is "Gamemaster" by Lost Tribe, on Hooj Chewns label.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Version: 2.6.3

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=RUx1
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:02:09 1998
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dood... the party was phat phatty! =) who cares if it got off to a late
start.... perhaps if it started earlier, things might not of gone the
way they did, and it seemed to me, thing were going pretty damned good!!
do it again man!


macadio wrote:
> 
> I would just like to thank all that came out to
> support my little par-ta It started out kind of
> Sketchy and late being that I assumed that the VM
> number would be able to leave long messages and it
> turned out that if only supported like 30 seconds..
> Doh!! so I had to revert to several different numbers
> and what not. My sound and Lighting guys were not
> there due to my wacky directions I think? After
> stressing pretty hard and several pages and Cell
> phone call's later the party was in full swing.. I
> would personaly like to thank all that helped me with
> the party. AndyW,Josh mitchell,Layne,Danny,
> Micron,Scott nelson, Jbot, marcos, Tao ETI,
> chris,terry estioko,shoot mind block it is early and
> anyone else I may have missed. Sorry for those of you
> that tried to attend and my have gotten lost or just
> could not find the party. I think it was a decent
> party not to crowded and not to few people it was
> just right and the DJ's (except my set) all rocked I
> personally sucked that night. Thank you guys... Look
> for the next first light party coming sooon..
> 
> Peace,
> Macadio (Mack-Audio)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:02:55 1998
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To: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
cc: goodvibe@geocities.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: [NRR - with apologies] Re: What is a Ghetto Child?
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Just a K1D wrote:

> not this again.  Please, no this again.
> me and my delete key will become best friends again, I guess.
> Ms. K1dd
> 

I realize not everyone is excited about this topic, but I just thought the
use of the term "ghetto children" was potentially insensitive, and I asked
for some clarification before assuming the worst. My point has been proved
as far as I'm concerned, I feel there are some people on this list that
won't get it no matter how much I point at the sign, and I'll try to keep
it off the list I guess.

I can understand levity, ask anyone who knows me.  I try to give the
benefit of the doubt, but I looked for a meaning for the term which both
made sense and failed to be classist or racist.  I might say I did not
succeed. I waited for a response that satisfied my need to understand.  I
was mocked.  Well, not answering the question was all the answer I
needed... 

Really would have liked to have been proven wrong.  So, sorry kids, just
ignore the whole thing, wouldn't want to upset your stomachs with my
shpiel, especially on this day, when most everybody is off from school and
catching up on their e-mail...  I believe we're celebrating some holiday
where we should reflect on the way this country once was, the way it is,
and the way it should be.  Or maybe celebrating the birth of someone who
taught me a lot about... 

Peace,
Andy



Main Entry: ghetto
Pronunciation: 'ge-(")tO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural ghettos also ghettoes
Etymology: Italian, from Venetian dialect ghto island where Jews were
forced to live, literally, foundry (located on the island),
from ghetr to cast, from Latin jactare to throw -- more at JET
Date: 1611
1 : a quarter of a city in which Jews were formerly required to live
2 : a quarter of a city in which members of a minority group live
especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure
3 a : an isolated group <a geriatric ghetto> b : a situation that
resembles a ghetto especially in conferring inferior status or
limiting opportunity <stuck in daytime TV's ghetto> 

Main Entry: child
Pronunciation: 'chI(&)ld
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural children /'chil-dr&n, -d&rn/
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English cild; akin to Gothic kilthei
womb, and perhaps to Sanskrit jathara belly
Date: before 12th century
1 a : an unborn or recently born person b dialect : a female infant
2 a : a young person especially between infancy and youth b : a childlike
or childish person c : a person not yet of age
3 usually childe /'chI(&)ld/ archaic : a youth of noble birth
4 a : a son or daughter of human parents b : DESCENDANT
5 : one strongly influenced by another or by a place or state of affairs
6 : PRODUCT, RESULT <barbed wire... is truly a child of the plains -- W.
P. Webb>

If you made it this far I'd like to thank you for your time, and your
effort to understand my point of view.  I feel I'm right about my
convictions, and I honestly hope I'm wrong about my conclusions.

Paul, we can agree to disagree (I could be wrong for all I know, and if it
takes everything I have, I will remain civil towards you), but please
don't stoop to making fun of my last name again.  You can pick on my
records/opinions/words/actions/posts/beliefs/writing/spelling/grammar,
that's a matter of taste and execution and I know not everybody wants to
invest the time to figure me out, but I believe we were supposed to get
past name calling by about 5th grade or so (I'd really appreciate it,
thanks).


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:06:52 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: First light Thanks you!!
To: just jer <jer@best.com>
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Doh!!! How could I forget my main man that help my
little ass in a pinch Jer for helping me out with his
truck. This kid is bad ass he always comes through
for me with out any hesitation. However he does like
to sleep alot!!! was the bed comfy?  hehehe

Macadio 



---just jer <jer@best.com> wrote:
>
> dood... the party was phat phatty! =) who cares if
it got off to a late
> start.... perhaps if it started earlier, things
might not of gone the
> way they did, and it seemed to me, thing were going
pretty damned good!!
> do it again man!
> 
> 
> macadio wrote:
> > 
> > I would just like to thank all that came out to
> > support my little par-ta It started out kind of
> > Sketchy and late being that I assumed that the VM
> > number would be able to leave long messages and it
> > turned out that if only supported like 30 seconds..
> > Doh!! so I had to revert to several different
numbers
> > and what not. My sound and Lighting guys were not
> > there due to my wacky directions I think? After
> > stressing pretty hard and several pages and Cell
> > phone call's later the party was in full swing.. I
> > would personaly like to thank all that helped me
with
> > the party. AndyW,Josh mitchell,Layne,Danny,
> > Micron,Scott nelson, Jbot, marcos, Tao ETI,
> > chris,terry estioko,shoot mind block it is early
and
> > anyone else I may have missed. Sorry for those of
you
> > that tried to attend and my have gotten lost or
just
> > could not find the party. I think it was a decent
> > party not to crowded and not to few people it was
> > just right and the DJ's (except my set) all
rocked I
> > personally sucked that night. Thank you guys...
Look
> > for the next first light party coming sooon..
> > 
> > Peace,
> > Macadio (Mack-Audio)
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:14:19 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:12:53 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainmnet
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CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org, jsl@twenty-hz.com
Subject: Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits
References: David Minuk <davidmin@wco.com> 		"SF Weekly article" (Jan 14  
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Robert Pointer wrote:

> Ray,
>
> So I, as well as others, might better judge your position, can you give me the
> mission statement behind your parties?

Well, not meaning to sound defensive, but Im not on trial here, and I never felt that
there was any sort of Judgment that was being made about my events.  People have their
own opinions of me, and I never make it my business to trip on what people think of
me, because it's pointless.  I lead my life with positive intentions, and feel that I
have strong integrity, and everything else will fall into place.    I have also been
an active member of SFRaves for 2 years, and am getting to the point were Im getting
rather tired of having being made to feel like I need to defend myself or my actions
to receive respect from a community that I am a part of.

I would love to define a mission statement for you... but It would be muck too vague
and ambiguous for your liking, because Im an open minded person, and a mission
statement is something that is for Banks, and financial institutions, and government
agencies, but I can give you an idea of what the PURPOSE of our parties is, and If it
isn't to your satisfaction, then I apologize in advance.

The purpose of Feel Good Entertainment is to make people FEEL GOOD.

> I saw that you commented on giving back to the community, etc.
>
> Are you running a business? Are you running a non-profit?

I do not feel comfortable talking about my financial structure on this open forum, but
I can tell you this.

Giving back to the community is something we do, because we want to channel the
positive energy of the people that attend our events in a good direction.  We do it
because we want people to FEEL GOOD about their partying.  That their partying serves
a good purpose, and that this scene stands for good things.    This is not done
because of tax purposes, nor is it done for marketing.  It's because of good will, and
has many rollover benefits as well... such as gaining the respect of city agencies
that grant permits, and mandate policies, and it deters the media from publishing
derogatory reports about our scene, because good comes out of it.    There is lots of
illegal activity within our scene, and I do not have the resources to combat all of
it, BUT by making GOOD things, like donations, a part of a party, it OFFSETS the
impact of the bad aspects.

> But more importantly, what is your mission statement for the event?
>
> This will help, I think, clarify for people who may have a problem with the
> integrity of massives and a select number of parties.
>
> If more promoters made their mission statement public and open for discussion
> I think that we would all be able to figure out who we should support and who
> we should not.
> (you know - ferret out those decietful little bastards! <---JOKE! ;)  )

I Think people need to make their own decisions, and do what they think is right.  Not
every promoter is a member of SFRaves, most massive promoter ar probably not, that is
why I defend them at times when the flaming gets out of control, and they can't defend
themselves.  But I would generally say, that They all have good intentions, and every
event is a learning process for every promoter.  So a bad party in the past will
yields a better party in the future.  People need to make their own choices, and Not
count on a "WE" to be there for guidance... especially in a scene like this that is so
rampant with pear pressure on so many issues.

> Subversion happens when intentions are hidden. Anyway, it would be easier to
> tell the difference between someone wh was just trying to throw a party that
> had techno music and that person that was trying to make a statement about
> rave oriented "plur" (for example).
>
> Part of being a promoter is being held accountable for your actions before,
> during, and after your event. Especially in the Rave scene (for what it is worth).

This is very true.  Everyone is held accountable to their actions.  This scene... That
scene... your life... their life... it does not matter.   Accountability and
responsibility are a part of everyday life...  for everyone.   Promoters are people
too.  And they need to be treated as such.

As far as parties go, The promoters intentions are clearly projected through the
event.  A flyer can be made to mislead... but the event itself (the party on the other
side of were they collect your money) is were the truth and effort are communicated to
the people.  That's when you can fairly judge weather a promoter is giving you back
everything that they promised to deliver, and what type of party their vision chose to
manifest.

> p.s. Furthermore, some promoters can throw parties for *only* money, but
> provide a kick-ass vibe and a great party. In these instances, no one cares
> about their intentions, really. I, for one, wouldn't care, given they put all
> the right pieces together for our experience. If it was in their mission
> statement to make a profit as well as put together a PLUR filled event, hey,
> more power to 'em. And better yet, make it known publicly. That's honest,
> upfront, and open.
> I don't understand how the inclusion of making money automatically excludes
> the possibility of doing something good. They can co-exist successfully. This
> is what, I think, Ray is talking about. If promoters would make their mission
> statments public, then any misperceptions would be eliminated fairly fast.
> Nothing straightens people up like real accountability (pun intended)!
> Shoot, if a promoter can make great parties and make a living off of it at the
> same time, we should all be happy for them (and probably be a little envious
> as well).

I like making money, and I enjoy supporting my friends, and mostly I love to put
smiles on peoples faces, and bring happiness into peoples lives.  I hope that my
parties do this.  But money will always be just a tool, and FUN is the end product of
entertainment.

Keep it Real   Vlad

>
>
> > And John ...You're right also...  I do think about money and return as the
> > principle aspect of my equation.  But not for the reasons you may want to
> > believe.    If you really care to know... Its because the more money my events
> > generate.. the more I can put back into the community as donations to
> > charities.   Also, the money I make (when this happens) is put back into making
> > the next event even better... not into some secret swiss numbered bank
> > account... or some shit like that.  And by Involving all my friends into the
> > event, I have a financial responsibility to them... and even though I want to
> > support my friends, I do NOT want to go broke doing it.  I also have a family to
> > consider.   Unlike other 'massives' out there... if you took the time to look
> > closely at any of our flyers you will se that we work PRIMARILY (95%) within OUR
> > local scene...  Keeping the money here were it belongs.  distributing it from
> > the ravers to the production personnel; local
> > dj's,spound,lighting,lasers,designers....etc.  Not wasting it on big name acts ,
> > air fare, and hospitality or novelty gimmicks... but keeping it REAL... and
> > putting it into the party... and giving it back to the community.
> > And as far as motivations go... " putting the good of the people in front of
> > yourself".  Well if I thought about myself first I Would NEVER be doing this.  I
> > graduated from the San Jose State School of Engineering with a degree in
> > Industrial and Systems Engineering.  It would not be hard for me to find a nice
> > and cushy corporate job, with a high 6 digit annual salary.  But I do this
> > because I enjoy it (call me crazy) and all my friends (promoters, dj's,
> > production, designers) are in this scene, and supporting them, by involving them
> > all in my events, makes me feel good.   So now, if you chose to believe what I
> > just wrote, You may understand a little bit more about my motivations.  And when
> > I do win the lottery, I will still throw parties.... except they will be for
> > FREE.
> >
> > Keep it real...   Vlad
> >
> > John S. Lee wrote:
> >
> > > At 8:30 PM -0800 1/16/98, Ray Vonie wrote:
> > > >Phred, it sounds to me like you think: That promoters are useless amateur
> > > >hustlers that lie, and exploit the ravers who are just a bunch of gullible
> > > >sheep that waste their time in our adolescent scene which exists without
> > > >purpose, and Bill Graham (whose company is about to stars strip-mining this
> > > >scene) is some sort of role model.
> > >
> > > Are you kidding?  First of all Fred knows what is up!  Next, EVERYONE WHO
> > > DOES MASSIVES IS STRIP MINING THIS SCENE!
> > >
> > > C'mon let's get very, very, real.  When you have money in the equation, it
> > > eclipses everything else.  The second you have to worry about returns, is
> > > the second your party has changed it's purpose.
> > >
> > > Facts of life.
> > >
> > > Fred also didn't hold Bill G up as a role model.  He was showing how anyone
> > > with good intentions changes when money is involved.  I am no different,
> > > and neither is anyone else.
> > >
> > > Few are the warriors who are motivated by the good of the people.  For if
> > > this paradigm wasn't true, everyone would be doing everything for free.
> > >
> > > My .02 about my man, the properly right Rev. Fred!
> > >
> > > And he ain't no White Boy either.
> > >
> > > Peace,
> > > john
> > >
> > > "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> > > Narcotics




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:18:25 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:19:18 -0800
From: Junichi Nakagawa <jun@concentric.net>
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HER??? I'm a male.... :-) 

Anyway, I'm in SF from Tuesday.

Jun

> Come on now. 
> It was a *black back-pack*.  
> I know I've seen her.
> 
> Didn't bother to kick anything, tho. 
> rob.
> http://www.citizenmag.com
>  
> fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> > 
> > Junichi Nakagawa wrote:
> > 
> > > I am usually walking around Haight Ashbury wearing Black pull-over> > with> > > a black back-pack. If you saw me, just give me a kick from the back> > or> > > just say "hi"  :-)
> > 
> > oh so youre the one in black...i think i may have seen you.
> > 
> >         ><{{{">   <"}}}><
> > 
> >                 foolish fish

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:23:10 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: First light retraction...
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Ok it is a little later in the day so I better get my
thank you's str8..

ok think!!

Byroni was there before I was even at the space
helping out and stuff Sorry Byron!! you are badd ass
as well.
Derek for being early, Byroni's friend sorry don't
remember there names. Laynes friend, cat weasel for
the water. Pete, If there is anyone else that I am
forgetting which I know I am please let me know as
the night was a blurr and I don't recall who helped
and stuff. Thanks to all if you are on the list or
not!! if you are please send me mail and I will
include you in my "Public props"

Macadio






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:24:04 1998
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From: "Fred Heutte" <phred@well.com>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:23:48 -0800
In-Reply-To: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
        "Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD" (Jan 19,  8:26am)
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I got a copy of this at Tweekin in the Lower Haight.  A lot of the DJ
stores will probably have it also.

phred

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:30:12 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: znow'bound weekend
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:31:10 -0800
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So what's up are we goin to try for this weekend or not. I find out that I
can in fact do the Feb 14th weekend( postponement of plans) not that you
basing plans on what I was doing, but I am totally interested in getting
this together, and if you are going that weekend then I totally am in.

Lacie are you still headin this thing up? If you are, again I am ready to
help in any way I can.

If not then who is? I would be willing to try but I lack cash and same as
Lacie I have no prior experience.

So come on peoples let hear it:
WE WANT SNOW! WE WANT SNOW! WE WANT SNOW!

If I end up being the only one going and listening to mix tapes and cd's and
dancing my but off by myself and having a blast on the slopes then so be it.
Buuuuut I would like some company so lets do it right.... Lets do it
togetha.

Thanx 4 puttin up with my ranting. I am at work and am fearing the fate of
the flu finding its fingers around my heath (couldn't think of a health word
starting with f)

MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:46:21 1998
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From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainmnet
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Regarding Your comment and question bellow....

1.  In order to Exploit... you have to have lots of money and lots of power.   I
do not know of any rave promoters with these resources, and by means of logic...
If They did have these resources, they would most likely be doing something
else, and not throwing raves.

2.  In any scene, there must be organizers producing events so that the scene
may exist.   If there were not, then no one would have any place to go, and no
one would 'SEE' them... there for if you are NOT "Seen" then you're not in "The
Scene".   So if it's not for the promoters... then whose doing all the work?
Whose taking the initiative???  Whose Making it all happen?????   This does not
make promoters in any way more important.  In fact from a promoter perspective I
feel that the ravers have the more important role... because unlike promoters
that already believe in themselves, and what they are doing... ravers have to
place their trust in these promoters... and putting trust in others requires a
lot more dedication then trusting yourself.

3.  Anyone can be a promoter.  But to be a successful promoter takes commitment
and dedication.  Every promoter is different, primarily through their goals,
visions and methods.  In order to want to promote an event... you need to have a
love affair with this scene, and the culture.  If you have that, then it will be
important enough to you to either help or throw your own event... so your
efforts can make a difference.

4.  As far as XLR8R is concerned... and your referring to the Graffiti Letter
then all I have to say is that I am so much above them That I do not feel like
there is any need to defend myself against their low ball tactics to slander my
character.  They are sealing their Fate... and writing their own destiny.
XLR8R = PLURnography.  That's my response.

Keep it Real... Vlad


.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
>
> > So where's all this money that all these promoters are exploiting from the
> rave
> >scene.   Of all my years in this scene, I've only seen a select handful of
> >promoters EVER able to make a living off throwing parties... and those that
> >did... Still struggled financially.
>
> I don't think he is saying that they are exploiting the scene by making
> money.
> I think he is saying that it shouldn't be about money, and they are
> exploiting
> it by connecting the two.
>
> Of course, I could be wrong, and it's not my place to speak for fred....
>
> >    Ok... if you want to know what promoters do.. The answer is simple...
> >They are the BACKBONE of this scene.
>
> My thoughts on this:
>
> (this is referring to massive parties)
>
> A promotional group  for massives is made up of anywhere from one person to
> 10 (at least, that is the greatest number of people i have seen successfully
> organize an event...any more than that and agreement becomes difficult)
>
> The people that attend the party are anywhere from 2,000 to 10,000 or more.
>
> How can you say the promoters are the backbone of the scene?
>
> If those dancing people weren't there, they would just be a bunch of
> disturbed
> looking folks standing around in an empty building with some angry djs
> glaring at them.
>
> >Promoters are the primary source By which this scene exists.
>
> *rolling eyes*
>
> Vlad...how did you get started in promoting?
>
> also...was that your letter in XLR8R? If so, can you explain?
>
> -kim, from seattle, who has never met Vlad but found the
> XLR8R letter a bit disturbing......
> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> "i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
> the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
> (from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:51:16 1998
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From: ASYDFANMAN <ASYDFANMAN@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4abdb53d.34c3bc32@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:48:38 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: my windows computer
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 I keep hearing about your mac 'puters and your wonderful O.S.8,
 But no one has said a dang thing about that lovable windows95 O.S.
 O.S.8 may do somethings well, but no operating system is as good, all around
as 
 the microsponge O.S.
 if you want to do two things at once, mac won't do it.
 what 'puter has set a record for concecutive crashes? THE MAC!!!!
 I GOT IT !!!! it's a drunk irishman, thats why it crashes. "aye, mac's been
drinking again, better set him up , and put another ale in his hand", "but
won't he fall again"? "yes, but it's o.k., it's better him than that smart kid
of that gates fellow."
  if the mac was so good don't you think you'd see IT in all those homes
instead
 of P.C.'s,? 
 if it wasn't for Motorola designing a decent  chip (604e)
 mac would be out on the street, like a wet dog,and you know it.
when there's 90% mac's and 10% P.C.s, you can tell me how much better it is. 
 But, until that day, my computer will be a windows computer.

                                                  Carl  

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:51:23 1998
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Subject: Re: Just wanna say hi to all
References: <34C30442.4057@concentric.net> <34C307E7.286E@pacbell.net> <34C32189.75FAB6DD@citiscape.com> <34C3B545.7906@concentric.net>
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HA! The curse of assumptions and email has struck again!

;)

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

Junichi Nakagawa wrote:
> 
> HER??? I'm a male.... :-)
> 
> Anyway, I'm in SF from Tuesday.
> 
> Jun
> 
> > Come on now.
> > It was a *black back-pack*.
> > I know I've seen her.
> >
> > Didn't bother to kick anything, tho.
> > rob.
> > http://www.citizenmag.com
> >
> > fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> > >
> > > Junichi Nakagawa wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am usually walking around Haight Ashbury wearing Black pull-over> > with> > > a black back-pack. If you saw me, just give me a kick from the back> > or> > > just say "hi"  :-)
> > >
> > > oh so youre the one in black...i think i may have seen you.
> > >
> > >         ><{{{">   <"}}}><
> > >
> > >                 foolish fish

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 20:58:45 1998
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Sad, sad, sad.
This reminds me of when I first came outta the cave and saw the light. I saw
it and it was beautiful. I could not go back. I was held to the justice and
right way of life that manifested itself in that light.

Hey, carl....Get outta of the cave man!

rob.
mac user (ahem...8.1 user BTW).
http://www.citizenmag.com

p.s. try running Macintosh OS, linux, rhapsody, and Windows (NT, 95, or 3.11),
or DOS all from the same machine at the same time. Can't happen on Windows
machine! Sorry bud, but you are OS "bound and tied." My mac allows me all the
different flavors. Sorry you only get to taste one. 

DOH! How's that for doing more than two things at a time?

BTW, rave on.

ASYDFANMAN wrote:
> 
>  I keep hearing about your mac 'puters and your wonderful O.S.8,
>  But no one has said a dang thing about that lovable windows95 O.S.
>  O.S.8 may do somethings well, but no operating system is as good, all around
> as
>  the microsponge O.S.
>  if you want to do two things at once, mac won't do it.
>  what 'puter has set a record for concecutive crashes? THE MAC!!!!
>  I GOT IT !!!! it's a drunk irishman, thats why it crashes. "aye, mac's been
> drinking again, better set him up , and put another ale in his hand", "but
> won't he fall again"? "yes, but it's o.k., it's better him than that smart kid
> of that gates fellow."
>   if the mac was so good don't you think you'd see IT in all those homes
> instead
>  of P.C.'s,?
>  if it wasn't for Motorola designing a decent  chip (604e)
>  mac would be out on the street, like a wet dog,and you know it.
> when there's 90% mac's and 10% P.C.s, you can tell me how much better it is.
>  But, until that day, my computer will be a windows computer.
> 
>                                                   Carl

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 21:04:44 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: exploitation (was Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)))
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-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
To: .oOo.oOo.oOo. <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article))


>
>1.  In order to Exploit... you have to have lots of money and lots of
power.   I


Not true just more power than those you are exploiting, be-it knowledge,
money, friends, opportunity, whatever. You don't have to be some big
grandeous person to exploit, they just do it more often and better than
everybody else.


Not trying to prove or disprove anything here just clarifying, a minor
misconception.
Thanx
MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 21:18:10 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR: Re: my windows computer
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:19:14 -0800
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This belongs under NRR
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
To: ASYDFANMAN <ASYDFANMAN@aol.com>; sfraves@hyperreal.org
<sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: my windows computer



>p.s. try running Macintosh OS, linux, rhapsody, and Windows (NT, 95, or
3.11),
>or DOS all from the same machine at the same time. Can't happen on Windows
>machine! Sorry bud, but you are OS "bound and tied." My mac allows me all
the
>different flavors. Sorry you only get to taste one.
>
>DOH! How's that for doing more than two things at a time?
>


Actually WinNT can do all these except the mac os at the same time in
different Windows. And Win95 is better for games cuz there are lots more of
them for Win95 than Mac, infact there are more Win95 titles than Mac titles
across the board. PC's can be built at home at significant cost savings, Mac
cannot. Mac runs RISC processor's PC's run the more robust CISC design. For
the home and small business environment, Pentium Pro's are still the
fastest, beating the crap out of those PII's. Win95 supports their program
developers a 1000 times better than Mac. If I want to run something from a
mac os I'll use a mac, otherwise I'll use a pc anyday.

Now don't get me wrong. Mac's don't suck in fact their pretty damn powerful
machines, (otherwise why MS invest that $150 mil or bil,I can't rember, in
Apple) They appeal to the kind of people who design grfix art andwish they
had an SGI but could afford one(who could?!?) or those who think that the
salesman is always right, or that what they have in school should be what
they have at home.

MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 21:23:38 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Oj simpson recently said that if he killed his wife it was
because he loved her.

It also seems the planet rock drew over 5000 at 30 which
according to my calculations is about 150,000 dollars.

So to demonstrate my love for all of you i have decided
to have a party and charge 50 dollars cause i love you more
than those people at planet rock. I mean my love is so pure
that i even have a special limited edition $100 ticket for those
that want to experience the full exstasy of my love. Please
note that these $100 tickets will only be available as presale
and limited to the first 1000 requests.

Now I feel like i should explain where the money is going to go.
I must be honest with you and tell you that i havent decided,
but will leave immediately after the party for hawaii so that i may
devote myself to deciding how to use this money. I feel that i will
be able to figure that out with no more than 30 days on the beach.
I imagine that most of the money will go back to the scene so that 
i can continue to share my love with all you wonderful raver people.
I am a part of the scene as i do what you can not by having
partys. Its true that people have been having partys for
centuries but today it takes a special person like myself
to get people to party. So paying my rent is a donation to 
the scene since i am a part of the scene...understand?
As you all know being a promoter is a really hard lifestyle
and your donations will help pay my bills and ENABLE me to continue
to share my love with all you wonderful people of the community.

I look forward to sharing my love with all of you wonderful 
people....hugs and plur to all of you. I mean where
else can you find so many people willing to spend so much 
money for a night of music and drugs. It just so moving,
i almost want to cry thinking about all of you.

oh yeah, there will be a $5 dollar discount with a can of food
for those may feel guilty about spending so much money
on a party.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

ps...I love you too much to give you free water...i will
give you the pleasure of donating $5 per bottle to help
keep the scene alive. 

"dont count your chickens before they cross the road"


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 22:09:18 1998
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From: jonas@nit.AirTouch.COM (Jonas Edgeworth)
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> -->I sympathize with the homeless, but the winters here are not all that
> bad in relation to the rest of the nation. And if they (or anyone) truly
> wanted to get out of this place they could...Greyhound isn't that
> expensive.  Hell, there are still some trains operating that could be
> "hitched". What, like no other city has been accused of forcibly
> relocating people in low income areas? Yeah, that sucks about the elderly,
> but that is due to society in a ways, cause their children and relatives
> should have been obligated to help out and prevent such a thing from
> happening.

I think you may be forgetting some major issues here in regards to the homeless. 
First, the winters here, although not as bad as Chicago or Detroit, have at 
times been bad. I can remember several years back where roughly 30-50 homeless 
peolple died from the cold. 

The other point you may be missing in terms of the homeless is
their mental capacity. Dont you think if they knew that they could take a bus or 
train they would? And even if they had the capcity, would they even care to 
attempt to better themselves when the world around them has shunned them and 
written them off?  Some make it out of this situation and these are the lucky 
few.

Third, where is the magical twenty bucks coming from for them to afford a bus 
ticket? And about the elderly, what if there are no children or relatives, who 
is obligated to help out then?

Please try not to make sweeping generalizations about a segment of our culture
that has a difficult enough time as it is.

JoNaS

ps - In terms of the "half full/half empty" argument about SF, it is both and it 
is neither, IMHO. 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 22:14:34 1998
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I love PC's... mac's are cool for certain  things... but Windows isn't
much better than MAC OS. shit... it's buggy windows 95, sitting on top
of buggy dos, with buggy programs, buggy drivers, etc.etc. nothing's
flawless anymore.

it's a stupid arguement anyways... computers are built for different
uses/users.

and what the hell does this have to do with raving? hehe =) aside from
flyer design and visuals. and maybe for the massives, accounting?

ASYDFANMAN wrote:
> 
>  I keep hearing about your mac 'puters and your wonderful O.S.8,
>  But no one has said a dang thing about that lovable windows95 O.S.
>  O.S.8 may do somethings well, but no operating system is as good, all around
> as
>  the microsponge O.S.
>  if you want to do two things at once, mac won't do it.
>  what 'puter has set a record for concecutive crashes? THE MAC!!!!
>  I GOT IT !!!! it's a drunk irishman, thats why it crashes. "aye, mac's been
> drinking again, better set him up , and put another ale in his hand", "but
> won't he fall again"? "yes, but it's o.k., it's better him than that smart kid
> of that gates fellow."
>   if the mac was so good don't you think you'd see IT in all those homes
> instead
>  of P.C.'s,?
>  if it wasn't for Motorola designing a decent  chip (604e)
>  mac would be out on the street, like a wet dog,and you know it.
> when there's 90% mac's and 10% P.C.s, you can tell me how much better it is.
>  But, until that day, my computer will be a windows computer.
> 
>                                                   Carl

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 22:34:36 1998
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Subject: for fish so loved us all
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    for fish so loved the ravers that he gave up his innocence,
  to  save us all from the evils of spare cash .
 he has given us his wit, and charm, eased our mind of the stress
 that our bosses giveth us. he reminds us of the purity of PLUR
 he is gatekeeper of many raves calming our fears, projecting peace to all
that pass
     the fish truly does love us all
 50 of our unneeded dollars from each and all is a small price to pay for the
purity of   purpose that he holds in his heart
  and of the truly worthy, he requests a paltry sum of only 100 dollars.
   the fish truly does love us all
   





 Oj simpson recently said that if he killed his wife it was
 because he loved her.
 
 It also seems the planet rock drew over 5000 at 30 which
 according to my calculations is about 150,000 dollars.
 
 So to demonstrate my love for all of you i have decided
 to have a party and charge 50 dollars cause i love you more
 than those people at planet rock. I mean my love is so pure
 that i even have a special limited edition $100 ticket for those
 that want to experience the full exstasy of my love. Please
 note that these $100 tickets will only be available as presale
 and limited to the first 1000 requests.
 
 Now I feel like i should explain where the money is going to go.
 I must be honest with you and tell you that i havent decided,
 but will leave immediately after the party for hawaii so that i may
 devote myself to deciding how to use this money. I feel that i will
 be able to figure that out with no more than 30 days on the beach.
 I imagine that most of the money will go back to the scene so that 
 i can continue to share my love with all you wonderful raver people.
 I am a part of the scene as i do what you can not by having
 partys. Its true that people have been having partys for
 centuries but today it takes a special person like myself
 to get people to party. So paying my rent is a donation to 
 the scene since i am a part of the scene...understand?
 As you all know being a promoter is a really hard lifestyle
 and your donations will help pay my bills and ENABLE me to continue
 to share my love with all you wonderful people of the community.
 
 I look forward to sharing my love with all of you wonderful 
 people....hugs and plur to all of you. I mean where
 else can you find so many people willing to spend so much 
 money for a night of music and drugs. It just so moving,
 i almost want to cry thinking about all of you.
 
 oh yeah, there will be a $5 dollar discount with a can of food
 for those may feel guilty about spending so much money
 on a party.
 
 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
 
 		foolish fish
 
 ps...I love you too much to give you free water...i will
 give you the pleasure of donating $5 per bottle to help
 keep the scene alive. 
 
 "dont count your chickens before they cross the road"
 
 
 
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 22:44:38 1998
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Some humor from a friend on "You know you live in San Francisco when..."

Your co-worker tells you they have eight body piercings; none are visible.

When someone says TENDERLOIN, you don't think steak. You think danger.

You make well over $100,000 and you still can't find a nice place to live.

You think anyone who drives a car to work is decadent.

You keep a list of companies to boycott.

You would never dream of crossing a picket line.

You take the bus and are shocked at two people carrying  on a conversation
in English

The guy who cuts your hair is straight, your plumber is gay, The woman who
delivers your mail is straight and your Mary Kay Lady is gay.

Old friends you haven't talked to in years suddenly call -- do you have a
spare bedroom for a weekend?

You think anyone wearing a George Clooney haircut is visiting from the Midwest.

You can't remember...Is pot still illegal?

You go to your office manager's baby shower - the parent's are named Judy
and Becky.

You give a "thumbs up" gesture to a car with a FREE TIBET bumper sticker--
and you mean it.

You have a very strong opinion where your coffee beans are grown, and are
willing to fight about it.

A really great parking spot can move you to tears.

You prefer the Spanish Soaps on TV -- the guys are much hotter!

You know that anyone wearing shorts in June is just visiting from Ohio.

A man walks on MUNI in full leather regalia and crotch-less chaps. You
don't notice.

You still can't believe a company doesn't offer domestic partner benefits.

You curse those damn tourists -- but always stop to help a cute guy/gal who
is looking puzzled at a city map.

Driving beneath an underpass, for one moment you think "earthquake".

Your boss runs in "The Bay to Breakers" ...it's the first time you have
seen him nude.

Your child's 3rd grade teacher has a nose ring and is named "Breeze".

You haven't been to Fisherman's Wharf since the first month you moved to
the Bay Area.

You are thinking of taking an adult ed class -- but you can't decide
between Yoga, Channeling, or Building Your Web Site class.

Your new neighbor goes to temple -- but you are still not sure if they are
Jewish or Buddhist.

You realize the only Republicans you know are your Aunt and Uncle in Georgia.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 23:16:01 1998
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To: phred@well.com
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Promoters (was Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)
	)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:16:00 -0800
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From: Fred Heutte wrote:

 But you display your lack of knowledge here.
Graham worked in the early 1960s with the SF Mime Troupe, and gradually
moved over toward concert production.  He was the organized,
businesslike
one who was perceived as an arrogant bully by the streetwise crowd
around
Chet Helms and Family Dog Productions.  The hassles between them form a
crucial chapter in the history of SF music circa 1967-69.  I have some
sympathy for both sides.  Graham had a real heart and though he was a
businessman to the core, he did two things that stand well above most
concert promoters.  First, he professionalized the concert business and
made it possible for the average person to go see bands in an era when
promoter greed and stupidity was as widespread as it is in the 'rave'
scene but far more prevalent due to the far higher and wider profile of
rock music in the mid-1960s.  Second, he continually backed worthwhile
community projects, sponsoring benefit concerts and many other favors.
 -==-=-=-=-=-
to add (& perhaps refine) what's been stated...

Bothe entities did loads of community projects & favors, etc; in the
entertainment business that seems the norm (although I know it isn't),

Family Dog & Bill Graham both came from the same nucleus of activities
but where the seperation came in (as you stated) was in the
professionalism Bill Graham brought to his productions. Family Dog was &
still is notorious for throwing great parties that don't make much (if
any) money & often let little details (like safety or financial
accountability) go un-checked.

Now we have the gift of hind sight to see what has happened to Bill
Graham Productions as well...

did his vision carry on? Is the spirit of his company still give back to
the community?

There is a song that's chorus ends with

"You'll be remembered by the love once you're gone."

meaning that once you've left the room or this world or whatever it's
only love (or maybe last impressions?) that you're remembered by...

I would guess that any promoter on this list has at least a bit of
scrupples and a lot of hope at improving thier knowledge base as well as
motivations for doing what they do.

sister kitty



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 23:33:36 1998
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Subject: Re: What is a Ghetto Child?
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>Okay Andrew Witscanowskit or other.

how mature.

>> > And i am not 14 years old Tweaker Man. And the ghetto children post did


however, your statements cause us to believe otherwise. if you are not 14 as
you claim, then you should make an attempt to communicate in a manner
fitting of your age group.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 23:38:21 1998
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To: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: "underground" carnival?
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Dear Vlad,

        You shared:

>It would be a dream of mine coming true if I were to have the
>support of an entire "community" behind my event...  But its just a
>dream...   No
>matter how hard you try.. there is very little that can be done to be able to
>satisfy everyone...

        On the contrary, I think there is *much* that can be done.
Everyone's experiences are personal and subjective, and you cannot
*guarantee* anyone will have a good time, but surely you notice there are
raves about which scarcely anyone has a bad word to say?  You read some of
the suggestions I have; at the risk of being rude, are you following any of
them?

        I know I have given you somewhat of a hard time lately on here.  I
would like to go to Love Affair and give your claim of trying to do a large
underground a la The Gathering, rather than a party like Space Children, a
chance, however I will probably be in L.A. that weekend.

        Nevertheless I am tempted to volunteer to help you do advance work
for this party, if you are interested in such help, because I would like to
see a good massive come off, and you seem sincere about it.  But I want to
hear that you have a viable strategy, not just good intentions, for making
the party good, otherwise I feel I would be wasting energy that could be
better spent elsewhere.

        Selling discount tickets was a nice gesture, and $15 seems a
reasonable price for a large event; but at Planet Rock?  What were you
thinking?  Why not sell them at an Underground, or by word of mouth on
SFRaves or something?  Your review of Planet Rock sounds like even you felt
it was pretty negative until the "Non-Ravers" left, and should be
considered a "good event" only in light of expectations for it being so low
in the first place.

        If you can show us you have a plan to make Love Affair happen the
way it should happen, I'm with you 100%.

Much love,
                                <<< Starchild >>>


>Actually I have to agree with You 'Trice... I thought that overall...
>planet rock
>were great, and the crowd (of ravers) that were there seemed like they had
>a great
>time.  Most of the NON Ravers cut out early, leaving a shit load of damage and
>vandalism behind, but also allowing for a good positive energy to fill the
>event.
>At the end.. there were still 1500 people dancing their asses of in the main
>room... and none of them wanted to leave... so I would definitely say it was a
>good event.







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 19 23:42:24 1998
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From: tabitha hanrion <bewitched@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Martin Luther King Jr.
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Being the post hog Kim is, this  got sent back to her. :)
I'm sort of a surrogate poster I guess.


>
>I wasn't sure if I should post this with NRR or not. But then I decided
>that a person who was a speaker on behalf of nonviolence, equality,
>love, and acceptance, was definitely rave related.
>
>Here are some quotes from Martin Luther King Jr which I really like
>and decided to post in honor of him and the holiday. I may have gotten
>some of them off a bit due to my poor memory. If so, I apologize, and
>please correct me, but I think I have the general drift...
>
>"You cannot fight darkness with darkness....only light can do that.
>You cannot fight hate with hate...only love can do that."
>
>" Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from
the
cup
>of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the
high
>plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative
protest to
>degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the
>majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force."
>
>"But I wouldn't stop there. Strangely enough, I would turn to the
Almighty,
>and say, "If you allow me to live just a few years in the second half
of
the
>twentieth century, I will be happy." Now that's a strange statement to
make,
>because the world is all messed up. The nation is sick. Trouble is in
the
>land. Confusion all around. That's a strange statement. But I know,
somehow,
>that only when it is dark enough, can you see the stars." - from his
last
>speech sometimes referred to as "the promised land" (which
interestingly
>enough is the title of some drum and bass cd's i have)
>
>love+groovin
>
>kim
>.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
>the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
>(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!








From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 00:27:10 1998
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Subject: snowboarding!  VELOCITY QUEST
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     hey all
     
     i decided if i was going to coordinate this i would do it soooo right! 
     so the dates for snowboarding are March 6,7,8. We have yet to 
     determine cost...  I will post an official notice of everything as 
     soon as i find out!!
     
     we have a very groovy, happening group of people!!!
     
     at this point i can say: VELOCITY QUEST will be March 6,7,8--> details 
     to follow.
     
     if your interested in signing up or helping---->email me !
     
     i'll keep you current!
     
     Lacie
                               
     
     


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 01:30:35 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:18:29 EST
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Subject: Planet Ripoff??
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Well, I am happie to say, that was definitely *not* the case!  I was really
pleasantly surprised, I feel like I totally got my $25 worth - good variety of
music, great sound (no trickling into other rooms), lots and LOTS of happie
people dancing their tushies off!!  (no free stuff for peeps with presales tho
=(  Started off the nite meeting Trice (kewl blinking stuff!!), Nick (small
world, eh??) and Marq -- you know, it's people like that who make waiting in
line FUN!!  Marq I'm sorrie for almost breaking your back & thanx for the lift
:)  

It was SO nice to meet Chris, Jessica, Bijan, Tina, Radley, Jewelz, and Vlad
(nice braid!)....and naturally to see Ray, Adam, Alex, Michelle, and GEOFF :)
again!!  Did I leave anybody out?  Sorry if I did -- this premature senility
is the pitz.  :) Regardless of the vibe, spotty or not, we created our own!!
We stayed mainly in the big room all the way to the left with the kewl
lasers...but mosied over to the Family and Jungle and HipHop rooms to see what
was up periodically and it seemed like everyone was having a super time
*everywhere* 

We got there as Kid Bippy was spinning.....MAN he is amazing!  Lots and lots
of energie and those guys in back of him waving their hands and arms around,
working the crowd were really hilarious!  :D   He totally set our nite off in
a good way -- and his mixtapes are just as incredible!  Next was DJ Dan...I
thought he kinda got off to a slow start - mostly that housey disco funk stuff
that I really don't like.  But a half-hour into it and he started tearing the
place up....  WOW!  Total music overload!  Charles Feelgood was total high-
energie -- my feet are still recovering, we danced so hard!!  I was a little
disappointed with John Aquaviva's set -- to be honest, he seemed like he
wasn't really into it, and the energie just wasn't up there.  Maybe we were
just tired, but I wasn't too inspired by his choice of music.  People seemed
pretty kewl, only saw one arrest - this dude who felt the need to liberate
himself from his clothes and become one with the music  =)  And aside from the
Dry F*cking Alerts and random Backpack Mountains, the dance floor was pretty
obstacle-free and there was plenty of room to move around and get sweaty :)  

The one thing that really ticked me off was the fact that a lot of people had
their backpacks and purses and clothes and stuff stolen -- I mean, REALLY, I
thought we were all more mature than this??!@?  It's pretty sad, one of my
friends actually had his car keys and wallet stolen, and yes, we all know we
should watch our stuff or keep it on us, but CAR KEYS?!@?  that's just plain
cruel.  
Aside from those random acts of immaturity, it was a super-fun nite, totally
memorable :) and a nice way to end my winter break!

Luv n Hugs
natasha  :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 01:35:07 1998
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To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: i have a dream...
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 17:35:01 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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i say to you today my friends.... so even though we face the
difficulties of today and tomorrow -- i still have a dream! It is a
dream deeply rooted in the american dream.... i have a dream that  one
day, this nation will rise up and live out the the true meaning of it's
creed, "we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are
created equal..."

i have a dream, that one day on the asphalt hills of frisco, posters
from AOL.com and posters from ATT.COM, will be able to converse
together and not post post crap about "homie g's" or "ghetto child" on
sfraves... 

 ... i have a dream, that people in furry pants w/ 65" cuffs will sit
down at the table of brotherhood with those in addidas and tommy
hilfinger... yes, I have a dream.. that one day... even the town of
atherton/menlo park/fremont, sweltering with the stupidity of WT
transformed by crass consumerism, will one day live in a state where
they will not judge others by the clothes they wear or the friends they
keep or the cars they drive, but rather by the content of their
character... i have a dream today!

i have a dream, that in "deepest darkest oakland," little black boys
and black girls will be able to dance all night with little white boys
and white girls and have a good time in true unity and with true
respect, without the need for stupid hypocricies like PLUR. Yes, I have
a dream.

>From every mountainside, let freedom reign. From the mighty stoned
mountains of Santa Cruz to the valleys of Oakland... let freedom reign.
And when that happems, when we let it reign from every village and
every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed
up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews
and gentiles, Muslims and Catholic will be able to join hands and sing
the words of the old Negro spiritual, free at last, free at last, thank
God almighty, we are free at last!

(then i woke up and logged in and read all the ridiculous crap people
have posted).

NP: Amos, Let Love Shine (Cleveland City Dub). This is the most kickass
MLK-i-have-a-dream-sampling rave anthem i've ever heard... it inspired
the above.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 02:08:23 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:08:28 +0000
Subject: Glow Much???
From: "Scott Upper" <scupps@earthlink.net>
To: SF RAVES MAILING LIST <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Greetings San Fransisco Ravers!    :D

I'm sending you lots of warm vibes from Venice Beach. 

I want to get across five important points about Spinlolly, our brand new
"rave essentials" website:

1) We have tons of killer rave toys, outer-space toys, bubble toys, etc.
(Including HUGE 15" Glow                            
    Sticks and "Orbital" Headlights) that you can purchase on our secure
server now. 

2) You can enter our contest to win a years' supply of glow sticks! 

3) We're doing Electronica Reviews from Industry Insiders on our
"Electronica Picks & Profiles"         
   Page.

4) We have the current U.S. (and European) Tour Schedule for the Crystal
Method, BT, and Taylor.  
   (If you haven't seen these folk, DON"T MISS THIS SHOW!  We're desert
    ravers, but they have proven to us that there IS hope for live techno.)

5) We have been working like dogs on this website for months, so please stop
by and sign in so we know          
   we did the right thing.

A    GIANT    PLUR    TO     ALL

********************************
Scott Upper
Spinlolly   
...toys and tunes from outer cyber-space.
(310) 452-GLOW  :)
http://www.spinlolly.com
rave@spinlolly.com
**********************************

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 02:10:16 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:09:57 -0800 (PST)
From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King Jr.
To: tabitha hanrion <bewitched@rocketmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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y'all should check out the mlk waterfall memorial in yerba buena
gardens if you're ever in the area (its on mission btwn 3rd and 4th). 
it's really beautiful.

-messiah


---tabitha hanrion <bewitched@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Being the post hog Kim is, this  got sent back to her. :)
> I'm sort of a surrogate poster I guess.
> 
> 
> >
> >I wasn't sure if I should post this with NRR or not. But then I
decided
> >that a person who was a speaker on behalf of nonviolence, equality,
> >love, and acceptance, was definitely rave related.
> >
> >Here are some quotes from Martin Luther King Jr which I really like
> >and decided to post in honor of him and the holiday. I may have
gotten
> >some of them off a bit due to my poor memory. If so, I apologize, and
> >please correct me, but I think I have the general drift...
> >
> >"You cannot fight darkness with darkness....only light can do that.
> >You cannot fight hate with hate...only love can do that."
> >
> >" Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from
> the
> cup
> >of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the
> high
> >plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative
> protest to
> >degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to
the
> >majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force."
> >
> >"But I wouldn't stop there. Strangely enough, I would turn to the
> Almighty,
> >and say, "If you allow me to live just a few years in the second half
> of
> the
> >twentieth century, I will be happy." Now that's a strange statement
to
> make,
> >because the world is all messed up. The nation is sick. Trouble is in
> the
> >land. Confusion all around. That's a strange statement. But I know,
> somehow,
> >that only when it is dark enough, can you see the stars." - from his
> last
> >speech sometimes referred to as "the promised land" (which
> interestingly
> >enough is the title of some drum and bass cd's i have)
> >
> >love+groovin
> >
> >kim
> >.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> >"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
> >the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
> >(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
> >http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> >seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> >http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> >Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 03:01:08 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:05:08 -0800
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: NRR: tips on love from the mouths of babes...
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This is pretty cute, had to share...

if only love was this easy:


Tips on love. From those that should know (all questions are being 
answered by kids 5-10).
     

WHAT IS THE PROPER AGE TO GET MARRIED?? 

"Eighty-four, Because at that age, you don't have to work anymore, 
and you can spend all your time loving each other in your bedroom."
 (Judy, 8)

"Once I'm done with kindergarten, I'm going to find me a wife" 
(Tom, 5)

WHAT DO MOST PEOPLE DO ON A DATE?? 

"On the first date, they just tell each other lies, and that
usually gets them interested enough to go for a second date." 
(Mike, 10)

WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE?? 

"You should never kiss a girl unless you have enough bucks to buy 
her a big ring and her own VCR, 'cause she'll want to have videos of 
the wedding." (Jim, 10)

"Never kiss in front of other people. It's a big embarrassing 
thing if anybody sees you. But if nobody sees you, I might be willing 
to try
it with a handsome boy, but just for a few hours." (Kally, 9) 

THE GREAT DEBATE: IS IT BETTER TO BE SINGLE OR MARRIED?? 

"It's better for girls to be single but not for boys. Boys need 
 somebody to clean up after them" (Lynette, 9)

"It gives me a headache to think about that stuff. I'm just a kid. 
 I don't need that kind of trouble." (Kenny, 7)

CONCERNING WHY LOVE HAPPENS BETWEEN TWO PARTICULAR 
 PEOPLE

"No one is sure why it happens, but I heard it has something to do 
with how you smell. That's why perfume and deodorant are so 
popular."
(Jan, 9)

"I think you're supposed to get shot with an arrow or something, 
but the rest of it isn't supposed to be so painful." (Harlen, 8) 

ON WHAT FALLING IN LOVE IS LIKE

"Like an avalanche where you have to run for your life." 
(Roger, 9)

"If falling in love is anything like learning how to spell, I 
don't
want to do it. It takes too long." (Leo, 7) 

ON THE ROLE OF GOOD LOOKS IN LOVE 

"If you want to be loved by somebody who isn't already in your 
family, it doesn't hurt to be beautiful." (Jeanne, 8)

"It isn't always just how you look. Look at me. I'm handsome like 
anything and I haven't got anybody to marry me yet." (Gary, 7)

"Beauty is skin deep. But how rich you are can last a long time." 
(Christine, 9)

CONCERNING WHY LOVERS OFTEN HOLD HANDS 

"They want to make sure their rings don't fall off because they 
paid good money for them." (Dave, 8)

CONFIDENTIAL OPINIONS ABOUT LOVE 

"I'm in favor of love as long as it doesn't happen when 'The 
 Simpsons' is on television." (Anita, 6)

"Love will find you, even if you are trying to hide from it. I 
have been trying to hide from it since I was five, but the girls keep 
finding me."  (Bobby, 8)

"I'm not rushing into being in love. I'm finding fourth grade hard 
enough." (Regina, 10)

THE PERSONAL QUALITIES NECESSARY TO BE A GOOD LOVER 

"One of you should know how to write a check. Because, even if you 
have tons of love, there is still going to be a lot of bills." 
(Ava, 8)

SOME SUREFIRE WAYS TO MAKE A PERSON FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU 

 "Tell them that you own a whole bunch of candy stores." (Del, 6) 

"Don't do things like have smelly, green sneakers. You might get 
attention, but attention ain't the same thing as love." (Alonzo, 9) 

"One way is to take the girl out to eat. Make sure it's something 
she likes to eat. French fries usually works for me." (Bart, 9) 

HOW CAN YOU TELL IF TWO ADULTS EATING DINNER AT A RESTAURANT 
ARE IN LOVE?

"Just see if the man picks up the check. That's how you can tell 
if he's in love." (John, 9)

"Lovers will just be staring at each other and their food will get 
cold.  Other people care more about the food." (Brad, 8)

"It's love if they order one of those desserts that are on fire.
They like to order those because it's just like how their hearts 
are...on fire." (Christine, 9)

WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE THINKING WHEN THEY SAY "I LOVE YOU" 

"The person is thinking: Yeah, I really do love him. But I hope he 
showers at least once a day." (Michelle, 9)

HOW A PERSON LEARNS TO KISS

"You learn it right on the spot when the gooshy feelings get the 
best of you." (Doug, 7)

"It might help to watch soap operas all day." (Carin, 9) 

WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE? 

"It's never okay to kiss a boy. They always slobber all over 
you...That's why I stopped doing it." (Jean, 10)

HOW TO MAKE LOVE ENDURE

"Spend most of your time loving instead of going to work." (Tom, 7)

"Don't forget your wife's name...That will mess up the love." 
(Roger,8)

"Be a good kisser. It might make your wife forget that you never 
take out the trash." (Randy, 8)



***a good kiss can make a person forget everything!***

<3,
meg



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 03:42:35 1998
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Message-ID: <34C41D64.4755@mindless.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:43:32 -0800
From: Drakonis Darkheart <drakonis@mindless.com>
Reply-To: drakonis@mindless.com
Organization: DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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John S. Lee wrote:
> 
> If you haven't heard this CD I would suggest goin out ASAP and getting a
> copy.  It is the bomb.  I just got a copy and I can say that it is one
> slamming CD.  It's great to listen to, and the production is good as well.
> The songs are well thought out and the mixing is excellent.  this is made
> even better by the fact that this is a live CD!
> 
> Astral MAtrix has been making music for some time now.  I have his first
> record and a couple of others as well.  I am also fortunate to hear some of
> his work before anyone, 'cuz I'm homeys neighbor and all.  It is so good to
> hear people do original compositions instead of the same ol' mix cd's and
> mixtapes.  Nothing is sweeter than home spun original material, and Mr.
> Matrix proves it.
> 
> If you like Astral Matrix, get this CD, if you haven't heard Astral Matrix
> then this CD is one you don't want to miss to get a proper introduction.
> 
> And this is NOt a paid advert, he's good, period!
> 
> peace,
> John
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics

Can you elaborate more ? What type is this ??? Trance, hardcore, HOUSE
CRAP, ??? what ?

-- 
Drakonis Darkheart - GABBERS OF THE WORLD UNITE !!!

DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS http://home.earthlink.net/~drakonis/index.htm

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 03:45:33 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:46:31 -0800
From: Drakonis Darkheart <drakonis@mindless.com>
Reply-To: drakonis@mindless.com
Organization: DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS
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To: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: First light Thanks you!!
References: <19980119173550.6501.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com>
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macadio wrote:
> 
> I would just like to thank all that came out to
> support my little par-ta It started out kind of
> Sketchy and late being that I assumed that the VM
> number would be able to leave long messages and it
> turned out that if only supported like 30 seconds..
> Doh!! so I had to revert to several different numbers
> and what not. My sound and Lighting guys were not
> there due to my wacky directions I think? After
> stressing pretty hard and several pages and Cell
> phone call's later the party was in full swing.. I
> would personaly like to thank all that helped me with
> the party. AndyW,Josh mitchell,Layne,Danny,
> Micron,Scott nelson, Jbot, marcos, Tao ETI,
> chris,terry estioko,shoot mind block it is early and
> anyone else I may have missed. Sorry for those of you
> that tried to attend and my have gotten lost or just
> could not find the party. I think it was a decent
> party not to crowded and not to few people it was
> just right and the DJ's (except my set) all rocked I
> personally sucked that night. Thank you guys... Look
> for the next first light party coming sooon..
> 
> Peace,
> Macadio (Mack-Audio)

Well sounds like it was a good party........ hope to attend the next one
maybe :)

-- 
Drakonis Darkheart - GABBERS OF THE WORLD UNITE !!!

DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS http://home.earthlink.net/~drakonis/index.htm

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 07:43:47 1998
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Subject: Re: First light Thanks you!!
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>> Thank you guys... Look
>> for the next first light party coming sooon..
>> 
>> Peace,
>> Macadio (Mack-Audio)
>
>Well sounds like it was a good party........ hope to attend the next 
one
>maybe :)

yeah, it really was a good party.  Just wanna add that Micron's set was 
absolutely fantastic.  Totally beautiful and melodic, and yet had fast 
strong beats that kept everyone dancing like crazy.  Too bad i had work 
the next day, cuz i missed macadio's set =(.

-vlad-
trip008@usa.net


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 08:09:15 1998
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Subject: Happy birthday aquarius 
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* Transformational powers of sound and dance
* Community dance, music, celebration, and ritual as a viable and necessary 
form of community-building, love-generating,
spirituality, and personal and planetary healing
* Vibrational healing
* Global networking of like-minded groups and individuals
* Positive use of technology
* Consciousness
* Trance states, ecstatic trance-dancing, and other altered/enhanced states 
of awareness
* Psychoacoustics
* The free flow of light/information and creativity
* Spirituality
* Meditation / Energy Work
* "Vibe" / Bioelectricity
* Multidimensionality
* Focused efforts of global combined consciousness / group meditation
* Esoteric knowledge
* Actively co-creating a positive future
* Deepening our connections to Earth
* Deepening our connections beyond Earth

anyone interested in being part of a mailing list where ravers and 
other cosmic types from around the globe and a few from other globes
talk about the above stuff let me know. 

Sun goes into aquarius today and mars goes into the spiritual sign of 
pisces today in preparaton for next weeks ingress into the age of aquarius. 
The cosmic party is about to begin.

Happy birthday all you wacky aquarian geniuses.

	><{{{"> <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 08:44:17 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:44:42 -0800
From: ~e~l~e~n~a~ <epetzar@earthlink.net>
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it's great to be back in SF
hadn't been to *Spundae* in 2mo. 
although i have to take breaks from
the club scene, i missed my friends here
it was great to meet their new friends ;)

Donald Glaude, what can i say, he's never dissapointed me,
he's one of my favorite shaman

Q? who spun after him, i know i should know, um....?

to the cute Japanese boy, your moves were rockin and to the boy w/
talcom powder thanks for making the floor so smoooooth, i was having a
hell of a time dancing in my Buffalos before you so generously did that
;) and to the boy who we stared at each other for way too long, GET
UNSHY!! my guy friends look like bodyguards, but iz SINGLE! oh well
twas a great nite w/ my pEEps!
huggies absorb more plur,
Elena

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 09:40:52 1998
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From: Space Ghost <hernancz@sirius.com>
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Burningman is moving AGAIN! The deal hasnt been struck but this is the 
likliest site. Tack on 4-5 hours of driving. The festival will be more 
attractive to those So-cal'ers in the know.



Kevin Enzminger wrote:
> 
> gomonk wrote:
> 
> > The proposed new site (pending BLM et al) is in the flat
> > called "Alkali Flat"
> 
> Also known as "Mud" on most maps. :->  (it probably has a local name,
> but most mapmakers tend to call every dry lakebed an alkali flat.)
> 
> > near Goldfield in Esmerelda County, NV.
> 
> Okay, I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!  It's _EsmerAlda_ County, not
> EsmerElda.  Esmerelda is your mother's great aunt!!
> 
> > -- fly to Vegas and drive?
> 
> Goldfield is closer to Vegas, but only by about 36 miles.  However,
> there is a longer stretch of 4-lane road along Hwy 95 and the southern
> portion of that highway isn't nearly as convoluted as the northern half.
> 
> Kevin

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 09:41:17 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:45:12 -0800 (PST)
From: sNIKers <xtcin69@rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: XTCin69@aol.com
Subject: I am back! (mainly Planet Crock Review)
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WHEW!  Finally, after nearly 3 weeks, I get to catch up on all of the
fun stuff going on...I wish I was around for the little "Freshie"
inncident.  =)  Well, needless to say, I am back to checking my mail,
back living and going to school in Berkeley, and just plain feelin'
sill*E*...soo here I go....

PLanet rock...well...I went to the Planet rock last year and VOWED
never to go to another Planet Rock as long as I lived....but alas, a
lineup including a Happy Hardcore DJ, and a gang of friends convinced
me otherwise....THANK YOU!!!!  I can't believe it, the line actually
MOVED, no one tried to kill the security or fence, and although homey
G ghetto style, the party was still a decent experience, maybe not
worth the 26 dollars, but I am definately not regreting anything.

It seems as if Trice told most of our night, including meeting Natasha
and Geoff!  YaY!  Random meetings of SFR peeps in line...now what are
the odds of that?  We also have a new playmate in the group SunE aka
Kristin, and enjoyed her company as well.  For me the night was made
by Simon Apex...OH MY....Happy Hardcore in the Bay...YAY!  His set
wasn't the best I have ever heard, but he put out a vibe into the
crowd...if you were standing near him, you couldn't help but smile,
bounce, and sweat like mad!  When he finished...my wanderings took me
all over..I was a bit disappointed with the smaller room in the back,
and the hip hop room didn't seem to be quite the place for a kand*E*
kid.

While we were leaving we got interviewed for SOME movie or
something...wonder if its that raver movie thingie???  Hmm...I'd jsut
like to say that when we were asked if we did e, fry, etc that our
reply was a big "We come for the music, the people, and the vibe. 
That's all you need!"  hehehe...sure hope that gets published!

My biggest complaint is the fact that there was NO kind of chill
room...one was greatly needed...what crack was the Planet Crack Rock
people thinking...Brian (I think, we met him like as we were leaving
and tired), nice effort, but MAKE A CHILL ROOM NEXT TIME!!!

Well....enough of my aimless ramblings for now...I'll see you all at
the next party, and KEEP ON SMILING!!!

PLUR, HugZ, and a bit o' glitter stuck in there!
sNIKers ;^Þ*










From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 11:11:17 1998
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From: Dj Marq <DjMarq@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:11:09 EST
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Subject: Planet Rock review (late)
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After going to last years planet rock, i swore that I would never even think
of going to anouther planet rock party again. That was untill i saw the flyer
for this years party. It had SUPA DJ DMITRY. Now, anyone who knows me knows
that I WORSHIP Dmitry, and would do anything to go see him live in person as
often as I can. SO I decided that the only reason i was gonna go was to see
Dmitry.

lemme see...me and nik arrived at 'trice's house, got ready, went to get sunE,
and were off to the party. Seeing that big line kinda dissapointed me but i
had only one thing in my mind the whole time...:DMITRY!!  While we were in
line, i got to meet natasha and geoff(sp?) they were really kewl.( no natasha,
you didnt hurt me! i'm alright <big smile>) we went throught the line, and as
soon as we got inside, we ran to the happy hardcore room ( we knew it was
playing cuz you could hear it from outside). Simon apex played an awesome set.
I walked around after that to look for the time schedule and see what time CY
Funk 3 was gonna be on. 1:30-3:00  WooHoo!!!  While killing time, I saw
paulEwog, victoria, gwen,shasta, joni, and a bunch of other people. I was
having a dope time!!

ok, by this time it was 1:20. GOTTA get to the main room! I plopped my self
right in front of the turntables. 2 minutes later....who stands right in front
of me??? DMITRY!!! I was in seventh heaven! His 2 hour set was INCREDIBLE
along side dj silver. They tore shit up! Not just the fact that it was Dmitry,
but they really did a good job! WoooHooo!!!!! I was one happy camper!! after I
got to take pictures with him and hang out with him a for a while. I'm
surprised I didnt pass out or something! 

After they left, I wandered around looking at the other rooms and meeting all
those people who i missed from 1:30 till about 4. It was kewl!

All in all, I give props to the people who put on planet rock for making it
the way they did(and for booking dmitry!). Much love to everyone I saw, and I
hope to see you all again this saturday at GROUND ZERO 3!!

            Peace, Love, and Hairgrease,

                                marQ

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 11:49:52 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 03:59:28 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Crack Rock was one of the most stupid, retarded, rediculous, gangster
fests i have ever been to! And I had a lot of fun. I went expectinc the
worst and it lived up to my expectations so i was no upset at all. I was
greeted at the opening of Home Base by some drunk gangsters saying i
looked like a faggot. I just smilled and said "Yeah but I know where all
teh good drugs are! Hahaha." Oh and Patrice tells me some guy climbed on
top of Home Base ran accross and then jumped onto the bouncy castle.
Fell on his ass and then ran into the party!!! I think that is
histerical. I give that guy mad props. He wants to be at a party money
or not and it was really funny when she told me it on the phone.
I don't care I had fun and sported my new fur pants and Sunkist Good
Vibrations shirt.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:15:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:12:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: First light Thanks you!!
To: just jer <jer@best.com>, macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
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Madadio,

Yes, I agree this party went off great! Nice folks,
good music (Micron you rocked 8) AndyW managed to
work out the ticks with the decks and had his system
rocking  very nicely. Sorry Macadio had to split
early and check out some other partners, I'll catch
your next set brother. The space was perfect though
and it looked like everyone was having a great time.
Hola' to all
the folks I saw from the list Macadio, *byroni*, Dan
(Micron),Tony, AndyW, Cat Weasel (thanks for the
tape), Danny and friend, Mushyb, and anyone else that
escapes my feeble memory. Very cool location,great
music, and
good peeps this one rates up there for sure.

Layne  


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:37:32 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Love A-Fair/Underground Carnival
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:28:01 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd25c8$c24dafc0$d156dad0@groovinkim.connectexpress.com>
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hey all :) i was wanting to ask you guys' thoughts on the
Love A-Fair party. There is going to be a bus that leaves
from Seattle (where I'm at) for $75 which goes to the party
and includes admission and the trip back. That doesn't sound
like too bad of a price to me and I'm interested in checking it
out.
However, i wanted to ask you guys' opinions. Not that I don't
trust what Vlad has to say, but I've never had a promoter tell
me they thought their party would be bad. *laughing* So I wanted
to get a bunch of opinions on it.
That price doesn't seem bad, but at the same time it might make
me sad to come to SF just for that party and leave immediately
afterward and not get to go to the beach or hang out or anything.
On the other hand, since i don't drive, the only times I get to go
there are when I can convince friends to road-trip and unfortunately
that isn't as often as I would like.
I notice that a bunch of our local djs will be there...that's pretty cool!
Troy Roberts especially is very talented in my opinion....
maybe it would be more worth it though to travel down to LA for
Dune...I've been thinking about doing that for awhile. I have some
friends (Joe and David Center) who used to live there and have told
me a lot about it...a desert party definitely sounds interesting.
I have never been any further south in California than SF so i don't
know anything about LA or socal parties....
have any of you guys been to Dune, or one of vlad's parties? Please
give me your input/advice :)         
love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!

.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:38:12 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Ravers and Carpooling
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:28:38 -0800
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Doh! forgot the cc =)
-----Original Message-----
From: .oOo.oOo.oOo. <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>

>that's a good idea. i want to start a page like that too.
>there was this website i saw once where you could get code
>to put a free bulletin board up on your page. i wanted to do
>that and have it open to ravers so that people who were going
>to a certain party could post "i am going and have room for _ people"
>and people who needed a ride could post that too.
>
>However, I lost the page and have looked for it on numerous
>search engines to no avail.
>
>Does anyone happen to know it? Unfortunately I lack the skills
>to design a bulletin board of my own at the moment :(
>
>love kim
>.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
>the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
>(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
>To: SFRavEs Mailing List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 12:06 PM
>Subject: Carpooling nStuff
>
>
>>hi jeff.
>>
>>i think this is the kind of stuff i really like to see more of on sfraves.
>>i for one do not have a car and i am watching it slowly get taken over by
>>mold because i can't park it indoors,,, someday i would like to have a
>>raver carpooling web page or somefun,,,including during the wekedays.
>>wouldn't it be nice to carpool to work with fellow raversr, maybe have a
>>mindboggleing discussion before you face your boss...don't be late now!
>
>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:41:19 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Question about Planet Rock
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:31:47 -0800
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Doesn't anyone on this list like hip hop? I don't understand why people
keep talking about all these "homie g's" or whatever.

Grandmaster Flash is incredible in my opinion. I have never seen him
live, but if I got the chance, i would jump on it! Same with Sugarhill Gang.

But the way the listees are talking, none of you liked the hip hop room?
Did any of you go in there at all?

Just wondering...as you can tell from my sig, I'm a big sugarhill fan, and
I would probably have been in that room all night....but I sure would've
been annoyed to be referred to as a "gangsta"!

-a puzzled kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:49:31 1998
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From: "Brendan" <brendan@criticalpath.net>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: [nrr] Re: Re: my windows computer
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:16:47 -0800
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>>p.s. try running Macintosh OS, linux, rhapsody, and Windows (NT, 95, or
>3.11),
>>or DOS all from the same machine at the same time. Can't happen on Windows


that's heinous. you'd have to be insane to load all that at once and
mulitask between OSs. in fact, i'd go so far to consider that outright
moronic.

you might as well add solarisx86, freebsd, and sco unix to the list;
assuming your x86 card can handle them.

>cannot. Mac runs RISC processor's PC's run the more robust CISC design. For


incidently, the pentium pro and pentium II chips are mostly RISC processors,
with some hybridization.
RISC is a newer and more efficient design than CISC, and i can't think of
anyone who is releasing a new CISC chip and expecting to compete in the
microprocessor market.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:49:57 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR: Please read: Derek could use some good vibes..
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Hey everyone.

I want to take a second to direct your attention to something. 

Derek Fieldsoe, a guy who used to be on the list, a person that many of
you know and care about, got into a car accident on Saturday. He's ok
physically, but he's pretty upset and is feeling pretty bummed. Bummed
because he's not going to drive, and won't as easily be able to see the
people who he enjoys being around. So we all need to send him some love
and let him know that we're here... by e-mail and telephone, if not in
person... it's the meaning, the message, the support that matters.. not
wether or not we're face to face...(hence SFRAVES)

He's a beautiful person who gives so much to the world. Lets take a
moment to do the same to him... his e-mail address is "drek1@juno.com".

Peace, Love, Unity, Respect... lets apply these 4 words, if *we* really
believe and live by them...

Have a great week guys...!

another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:50:39 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:47:47 -0800 (PST)
From: aminita <aminita@linex.com>
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To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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He is so very right aboiut this CD!
It is so dope! I loved hearing his set on Friday night too at 115 Minna.
Wow....certainly go out and get a copy!!!!!

aminita  a.k.a  shira




On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:

> If you haven't heard this CD I would suggest goin out ASAP and getting a
> copy.  It is the bomb.  I just got a copy and I can say that it is one
> slamming CD.  It's great to listen to, and the production is good as well.
> The songs are well thought out and the mixing is excellent.  this is made
> even better by the fact that this is a live CD!
> 
> Astral MAtrix has been making music for some time now.  I have his first
> record and a couple of others as well.  I am also fortunate to hear some of
> his work before anyone, 'cuz I'm homeys neighbor and all.  It is so good to
> hear people do original compositions instead of the same ol' mix cd's and
> mixtapes.  Nothing is sweeter than home spun original material, and Mr.
> Matrix proves it.
> 
> If you like Astral Matrix, get this CD, if you haven't heard Astral Matrix
> then this CD is one you don't want to miss to get a proper introduction.
> 
> And this is NOt a paid advert, he's good, period!
> 
> peace,
> John
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics
> 
> 
> 

	



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:51:24 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:02:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Hai La <hai_la@yahoo.com>
Subject: natasha's birthday
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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hi guys and gals.  *hugs*  if ya know me, been a while huh?  just
wanna drop by and say hi and tell you all of our beloved natasha's
birthday (natasha426@aol.com) which is the 26 of january.  she'll be at
whatsoever age she wants to be.  that gal had helped me through some
down times so you bet, i'll write about it way one week in advance so
you all could wish her happy birthday.  no excuses.  

she is adorable isn't she?  if there's any dispute, waste your breaths
on me for i have no shame on this matter.

cioa, free love, and major huggings..
hai

and of course how could i forget, hiyas to me favorite short hair gal
*mua*






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 17:58:21 1998
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To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: Hip Hop & sfraves comments
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 09:31 AM 1/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Doesn't anyone on this list like hip hop? 

In answer to your question:  HELL YEAH.  Hip-hop is good dance music along
with drum n bass, dub, downtempo, experimental beats, etc.  It's not all
about speed garage or house of all forms or bangin gabber.....

The headz who associate all hip-hop with gangsta's etc are just as guilty
and ignorant as the headz who associate all ravers with tweekin & drugs.  In
both cases --  some are --- some aren't!

Planet Rock Hip Hop Room
The hip hop room was cool, it was PACKED with heads, I have the video to
prove it.  Sugarhill lip sank -- that sux -- Del was good, the scratch
picklz only had a 45 minute set but they ripped it as usual, Z-trip & Emile
rocked it.  ETC.

A philosophy:  Let's all grow-up & figure out that music doesn't label it's
listeners -- people do.  Open your minds, see clearly... and if you like to
dance try some old school hip hop, it'll blow your mind.

Peace
dmarie
Ground Score
415.332.5800 X 797


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 18:01:39 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:56:31 -0800
To: loveworks@sfstation.com
From: nori <iron@construct.net>
Subject: loveworks dancing !  the aquarius party !
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>
>             this saturday january 24, 1998
>
>                loveworks & co. presents:
>
>    l  o  v  e  w  o  r  k  s     d  a  n  c  i  n  g
>
>          ' a saturday night disco adventure '
>
>
>           featuring dj's dani and matt valenz
>
>
>                      your hosts:
>
>        dianna jacobs / mark evans / nori castillo
>
>                gatekeepers:  john + reed
>
>                   5 samolians, mac !
>
>                     seven >>> two
>
>                          @
>
>             the 111 minna street gallery
>     btwn 2nd / new montgomery / mission / howard
>
>      love   laughs   incense   flowers   candles
>
>    classics * soul * funk * terrifying house music
>
>tonight will also be our annual aquarius party in honor of
>    the water bearing brothers and sisters of the earth
>    and will be in special observance of the birthdays
>                of nori, matt, and eduardo
>
>              p l e a s e   j o i n   u s  !
>
>                      full info:
>
>                     415 646 0744
>
>        http://sfstation.com/clubs/loveworks.htm
>
>                  love and respect...
>
>                    loveworks & co.
>			other records uk
>			 sfstation.com
>			    4sound

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 18:27:23 1998
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From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject:    c   o   z   y         sat. 1/24   (BP)
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       c       o       z       y

s a t u r d a y,  j a n u a r y   2 4

      an   i n t i m a t e  affair
               so discreet
that we can't even announce the dj's here.

please call 510-704-9876 to get the dj line-up
       and to inquire about tickets.

   very limited tickets, pre-sale only.
 available at the trancefactory record
store, 2575 telegraph ave in berkeley
  (one block south of dwight way)





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 19:22:20 1998
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To: "Brendan" <brendan@criticalpath.net>
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: [nrr] Re: Re: my windows computer 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jan 98 15:16:47 PST."
             <006d01bd2530$50d90620$41d868d1@baal.cp.domain.net> 
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 11:22:02 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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Precedence: bulk


> >>p.s. try running Macintosh OS, linux, rhapsody, and Windows (NT, 95, or
> >3.11),
>>or DOS all from the same machine at the same time. Can't happen on Windows
>
>
>that's heinous. you'd have to be insane to load all that at once and
>mulitask between OSs. in fact, i'd go so far to consider that outright
>moronic.

I would assume that he's talking about a multi-boot configuration, not
running them all at the same time. Though I personally would love
to be able to run Linux and Window at the same time, I just boot between
them, for now.

Bottom line -- use the best tool for the job. If you enjoy your tools
breaking a few times a day and wasting many hours rebooting and
restarting your applications, then by all means go ahead and use
Windows or MacOS. I'm still amazed that so called "professionals"
willingly choose to use these tools -- how many plumbers do you know
that would knowingly continue to use a faulty plunger that squirts
shitwater in yer face a few times a day?

I personally use Linux, because it's totally reliable, fast, small, and
basically, all-around excellent. I couldn't give a fuck about a bunch 
of fancy GUI chrome  and multimedia crap that wastes colors, memory,
and CPU. Just give me a computer that works, and has
secure/fast/reliable connectivity to the internet, and fast graphics &
multimedia when I want to see/hear 'em (not all the time for flash).
Right now, Linux is the only OS that does that on mainstream hardware,
but I suspect that Rhapsody will be just as good once it settles down.

> incidently, the pentium pro and pentium II chips are mostly RISC processors,
> with some hybridization.
> RISC is a newer and more efficient design than CISC, and i can't think of
> anyone who is releasing a new CISC chip and expecting to compete in the
> microprocessor market.

MMX is CISC by definition. Adding special instructions to handle
media/graphics ops is basically a CISC mindset, and Intel seems to be
competing fine in the microprocessor market. Intel claims they have a
"hybrid" but in reality, they've completely missed the  point of RISC,
which is to be able to create small, inexpensive, and extremely fast
chips that don't require extraterrestrial manufacturing technologies,
and/or costly low yields. Intel may have stolen some pipelining ideas
from RISC, but their chips simply are too large, complex, power-hungry,
and costly to have anything to do with RISC.

Note that Intel's design has absolutely nothing to do with having
designed a good microprocessor -- it's just that Intel has managed to
use economies of scale in manufacturing to offset the fact that they've
got a braindamaged, brute-force design. Given their size and wealth,
they can afford to manufacture lots of chips with cranked down the
silicon geometries, cranked up number of transistors, and cranked up
speed. Nobody else can afford to make chips that expensive to
manufacture.

RISC is a good idea if it weren't for Intel's monopoly on the low-end
market that allows the above brute-force approach to "work." Apple/PPC
misses the economies of scale by attempting to use better-engineered
hardware and finesse (plus butt-stupid marketing and bad management)--
but the market doesn't care, because people are basically shortsighted
and herdlike and always choose "worse is better" approaches...  Same
goes for other better-engineered products like those from
SGI/Sun/HP/DEC and same goes for better-engineered software like Unix,
Linux, NeXT, etc.

PS: I persoanlly don't care. I plan to get a 333Mhz (or faster)
PentiumII system sometime relatively soon, since they're cheap, and
good enough, and run the software i want (Linux, plus windows to run a
few specific apps). Whether the architecture or the bus is "pristine"
simply doesn't matter as long as it gets the job done and doesn't crash.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 19:41:32 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:31:06 EST
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Subject: Re: I am back! (mainly Planet Crock Review)
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no body metioned the Sugar Hill Gang!! 
did anyone see them perfom?
how were they?


~*~jenna~*~


In a message dated 98-01-20 04:42:17 EST, you write:

<< 
 WHEW!  Finally, after nearly 3 weeks, I get to catch up on all of the
 fun stuff going on...I wish I was around for the little "Freshie"
 inncident.  =)  Well, needless to say, I am back to checking my mail,
 back living and going to school in Berkeley, and just plain feelin'
 sill*E*...soo here I go....
 
 PLanet rock...well...I went to the Planet rock last year and VOWED
 never to go to another Planet Rock as long as I lived....but alas, a
 lineup including a Happy Hardcore DJ, and a gang of friends convinced
 me otherwise....THANK YOU!!!!  I can't believe it, the line actually
 MOVED, no one tried to kill the security or fence, and although homey
 G ghetto style, the party was still a decent experience, maybe not
 worth the 26 dollars, but I am definately not regreting anything.
 
 It seems as if Trice told most of our night, including meeting Natasha
 and Geoff!  YaY!  Random meetings of SFR peeps in line...now what are
 the odds of that?  We also have a new playmate in the group SunE aka
 Kristin, and enjoyed her company as well.  For me the night was made
 by Simon Apex...OH MY....Happy Hardcore in the Bay...YAY!  His set
 wasn't the best I have ever heard, but he put out a vibe into the
 crowd...if you were standing near him, you couldn't help but smile,
 bounce, and sweat like mad!  When he finished...my wanderings took me
 all over..I was a bit disappointed with the smaller room in the back,
 and the hip hop room didn't seem to be quite the place for a kand*E*
 kid.
 
 While we were leaving we got interviewed for SOME movie or
 something...wonder if its that raver movie thingie???  Hmm...I'd jsut
 like to say that when we were asked if we did e, fry, etc that our
 reply was a big "We come for the music, the people, and the vibe. 
 That's all you need!"  hehehe...sure hope that gets published!
 
 My biggest complaint is the fact that there was NO kind of chill
 room...one was greatly needed...what crack was the Planet Crack Rock
 people thinking...Brian (I think, we met him like as we were leaving
 and tired), nice effort, but MAKE A CHILL ROOM NEXT TIME!!!
 
 Well....enough of my aimless ramblings for now...I'll see you all at
 the next party, and KEEP ON SMILING!!!
 
 PLUR, HugZ, and a bit o' glitter stuck in there!
 sNIKers ;^Þ* >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 19:54:40 1998
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Carole L. Morrell wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone know anything else about this place? Pictures, maps, satellite
> >photos, soil samples, ave. yearly rainfall, humidity, temperature, square
> >miles, comparisons to Black Rock/Hualapai, etc?
> 
> The proposed site is in Esmeralda County (not Nye). The nearest town is
> Goldfield, which is a very charming, picturesque town with a very low
> population.  Tonopah is about 35 miles further away and is a larger town.
> The nearest big city is Vegas.  I have been myself to Goldfield and to
> Tonopah, but not yet to the proposed site.  However, I have seen a lot of
> pictures and some soil samples, and here is the good word:
> 
> IT IS THE HARDEST, FLATTEST PLAYA YOU CAN IMAGINE.  The ground is so hard
> that when cars drive over it, very little dust is stirred up.  Everyone on
> the Project who has seen the site is extremely excited and agrees that it
> is even a better surface than the Black Rock Desert was.  It's more remote
> than the Hualapai site, and given some geographical features, we think we
> can control access better than in the Black Rock Desert.  The land in
> question is BLM land.
> 
> There are some hot springs within striking distance of the site, but we
> don't yet know very much about them.  (I must be honest and say that I
> don't think they will be as spectacular as the Fly Hot Springs).
> 
> We are applying for this site, but we are still keeping an eye out for good
> sites, preferably privately owned.  We intend to apply for more than one
> site this year.  It is conceivable that at some point the event will return
> to Hualapai; there is still some sentiment towards returning to that site
> because of all of the hard work put in, because it is privately owned, and
> because of the hot springs.
> 
> yrs,
> 
> Carole Morrell
> General Counsel, Burning Man

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 19:55:15 1998
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Carole L. Morrell wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone know anything else about this place? Pictures, maps, satellite
> >photos, soil samples, ave. yearly rainfall, humidity, temperature, square
> >miles, comparisons to Black Rock/Hualapai, etc?
> 
> Some more information: The Project did research these things, but I don't
> have the information at my fingertips.  I can just tell you in general
> terms.   it will be hotter than last year, probably comparable to the heat
> in '96 (I recall being afflicted by the heat putting up my shelter in '96
> and then learning that it was over 110 degrees).   Yearly rainfall is very
> low.  The playa is significantly larger than the Hualapai playa.  It really
> makes more sense to compare the potential new site with the Black Rock
> site, rather than the Hualapai site, as it is geographically more like that
> site.
> 
> The one negative thing is that we think it may be windier at the Esmeralda
> site than at Hualapai or the Black Rock desert.  Don't panic; you won't be
> in a wind tunnel.  Just be sure to incorporate good guywire strategies into
> your planning.
> 
> yrs,
> 
> Carole Morrell
> General Counsel, Burning Man

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 20:07:41 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Minh(and everyone else) re: raves & politics
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=mlowdrma+40OCF+2EBerkeley+2EEDU+3B@apollogr's message of 01-17-98 00:17

Minh Minh Minh!  Unfortunately we are seperated by distance and the lack of a
convenient virtual coffee shop.  May I suggest that we agree to disagree.
 Tell me if that seems like a cop-out, 'cause in a way, I wanted to save
my typing strenght for upcoming papers.  I do have freetel.com (webphone
software that's free) if you'd like to audio this discussion further.  My
mind works faster than I can type.  Again, you make some good points in that I
do not know exactly where you are coming from so I made the leaps of assumption
that could possibly get me in trouble.  And it did, hah.
 
I can truly emphathize with your Orange County experience.  The 'rents have a
house at the end of the peninsula in Newport Beach (don't rag on me 'bout that
ain't the ghetto, etc.).  What city do you live in?  Around Bolsa or Chapman? 
That area is getting worse I heard, so I could see why you seem pretty pissed. 
Actually, probably most of Orange County is grappling with Asian predjudice
right now.

Thanks for the clarification on "spiel", I wasn't aware that it had a German
origin.  I don't consider myself a wordsmith, but I hear that word often enough
and the info is appreciated.

The comments you made about being an FoB were taken by me as insulting to your
parents' heritage, etc.  You tell me otherwise (self-deprecating I suppose) and
I take your word for it.

Without a full history on both our lives, I doubt we can really understand the
nuances of our points.  I try to make mine bluntly and take chances on
connections.  But I must say that I think you underestimate my understanding of
the evolving refugee, political displacement, immigrant struggle, etc.  

That stuff about working hard and studying 'til the wee hours.  Well, I wasn't
sure of your intellectual capacity.  You tell me you don't do much of that but
do well anyway.  Well, bully for you(oh wait, was that a British saying? damn,
sorry 'bout that, I forgot your feelings about the British).

Like I said before, you seem to know and understand the game you're in. 
Without forgetting the past and hammering people with a toned down heat
regarding discussion of Vietnam, just state the facts.  People should be able
to grasp the reality that Vietnam was a futile excercise that cost precious
lives on both sides.

Let me ask you a personal question, do you have daily anger at this country for
how it has shaped your life?  I used to when I was younger, but someone helped
me to turn the energy required to fuel this anger and turn it around to
something more positive.  I guess that's all I'm trying to do with you.  Try to
understand where you're coming from and see if I can vicariously live through
your citizenship to achive my own selfish goals.  I don't think that would
qualify as Machiavellian, subversive perhaps.  So it's all just for selfish
reasons.  

I'm glad I at least got you thinking and reasoning why.  As a minority,
speaking for myself, I never stop questioning why.  I too am obnoxious, but I
would'nt have said what I said if I didn't think you could take it.  And take
it you did.

Let's get off this subject because we could fill volumes of books with both our
thoughts.  If and when we ever meet, I got the first round of coffee.  Actually
I don't deal with caffeine, but some Odwalla juice would be great.

As a side note, what's the deal on Metropolis in Irvine and Logic in L.A.? 
Never been to either but might be coming up to hang with some friends when it's
warmer there and they tell me I should at least go and check it out.  My main
interest is the quality of the dj's and music.

Aight den, I'm out...

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com


---- Included Message ----

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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Steven_Allas wrote:

> 
> Minh said:
> <<<Believe me, I wouldn't want to be stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or
> the MIdwest because I would probably get lynched.>>> 
> 
> I said:
> That's a bit of an extremist view isn't it?  I've lived in those places,
> although not ideal by any means, I certainly haven't heard of lynchings in
> decades.  But I do know that there were some in the early half of this century.
> I think it's getting a little better these days not counting the church
> burnings of African-American parishes.

-->...Not counting the church burnings of African-American parishes?????
That should be example enough of what I was talking about.



> 
> <<<You see, I am not European, i don't look European, and even though I am more
> educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as a European, and since the
> majority of US stock is still mostly European- descendant I will get the
> shorter heavier end of the stick.  And since I am an FoB from Vietnam and
> everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that popular with veterans groups
> either.>>>
> 
> So do you want a special award or something?  Statistics show that Asians,
> Hispanics and people of mixed decent are on the rapid rise in the U.S.  Why
> would you need veterans groups for support?  Do they dictate the quality of
> your life here?  Are you or your family in the military where you are scorned
> for being Vietnamese?

-->Oh no, I don't want any medals thank you, I've had quite a few from
elementary school already that say I am special.  What the hell do I need
from statistics to tell me that I am moving up in the world? I know I'm
moving up and I know i'll be successful because that's who I am not; not
because I am asian, and to hell not because some two bit writer with a
flat ass from the Economist's statistics department says that I will. 
	I don't need veterans groups for support, but they do affect some facets
of my life here because of the numerous lobby groups that work for them in
D.C.  My family is not in the military and we are scorned for being
Vietnamese by some sects of O.C. in SoCal because they feel threatened by
the "yellow plague" and "...the rapid rise [of Asians] in the U.S."

> 
> My uncle (by marriage) is Japanese and was in the "442nd Go for Broke" company
> of WW II.  He and other Asian-American soldiers had bad experiences with the
> veterans groups.  So I'm just wondering what part the veterans groups play in
> your life?  Are they protesting outside your door for you to go back to
> Vietnam?

-->No, they are not protesting outside my door because I live in the urban
areas of California.  However, some of their sons and daughters happen to
call me gook, chink, nip, charlie, VC, commie bastard, ching chong
chinaman, and numerous other endearing nicknames that make me ever so
popular. When I happen to be in a mixed gathering and I answer the
inevitable ever so polite "...so where were your parents born?" I get
subsequently asked by a guy in his 50's "so what do you think about 'Nam?"
after he tells me his qualifications as being a veteran in this infantry
of that unit during this year at that location, and I am here
wondering...this guy must have children my age, I wonder if he asks his
children what they thought about 'Nam. Ohhh, but you should see their
faces when this uppity little VietMANese tells them that the US military
"excercise" in 'Nam was despicable and the whole war was the fault of the
US and he was sent as a child to do a "man's" job and butcher a nation so
that Washington could have pristine political ties with France...do you
think I'll ever get invited to afternoon tea at his house? Maybe i'll luck
out and get invited to join his family for X-mas dinner, and that would be
great 'cuz then I would be able to give him a copy of McNamara's
confession that the warlord that ordered him to serve in 'Nam to see his
fellow brother die thought that the war was...after all these
years...wrong.  Do you think he would be mad if I asked his permission to
date his daughter?

> 
> More educated than most Europeans?  Do you see the irony, do you see the
> perpetuation of the tragedy?  Maybe it's just me.  Shorter and heavier end of
> the stick?  You make it seem like you are a slave in the garment district.  I'm
> sure your education serves or should serve you well.  
> 

-->I'm glad that you managed to see the irony, or else everything would be
oh so hopelessly lost and we wouldn't understand each other. The tragedy
is that, for some unbeknownst reason to myself, Americans still feel the
need to place European decay on a pedestal...I just felt the need to shake
the pedestal for a bit; got a problem wid dat? Hey, watch your language
young man, i happen to have had relatives and family aquaintances that
were slaves in the garment district...how do you think all those nips in
my junior high got all those Guess jeans? I never wore any because they
are soooo tacky. I'm only comfy in my 501's and if I ever am down and out
in Europe I can always sell them to some sucker at an inflated price. Oh,
my education did you say? Well I learned the major points of rampant
consumerism and materialism while here, and I presently owe the federal
gov't $13,000 in loans for this "formal" B.S. education. But they owe it
to me anyways considering how they Napalmed everything and sent in Agent
Orange with a license to kill back in '72. Sure was hoot wasn't it with
all those little yellow dogs havin' the skin drip off their bones,
harharharhar, hand me 'nudder beer BillyBob....  



> We as minorities have to deal with lots of crap sometimes.  Don't be a victim
> and raise y'ass up!  You seem to understand the system you are living under, do
> what you have to do to make your life and those that are important to you
> pleasant and enjoyable.  Whether it be studying in the wee hours of the morning
> or working harder than the accepted majority.  These are just generalizations. 
> I won't go into the whole, "I have numerous Vietnamese friends who were boat
> people" schpiel.  I always crack up when people do that, regardless of what
> ethnic group they're talking about.
> 

-->For your information it's a German word and should be spelled "spiel"
but since you're using it as american slang why don't you spell it
"tzschpeel" instead?  What? Study? Work? You do that? I don't.  Now I feel
so guilty for being a slacker; woe is me, woe is me, what a bad minority I
am.

> By calling yourself an FoB from Vietnam and stating that "everyone knows that
> can of worms", well it sickens me.  Why make such callous statements regarding
> your parents decision to flee oppression.  YOU are not an FoB from Vietman,
> your parents were trying to get you away from a harsher existence than you have
> now.  It is not a can of worms, it is your immediate family's history and one
> that I presume you will pass on to your children, grandchildren, etc.  So they
> may know what their ancestors had to endure.
> 

-->How dare you  accuse me of convenience labeling, what do I look
like to you, safeway? What do you mean I am not an FoB from Vietnam? I was
born in Saigon you moron and I was on that boat with my parents in 1980
and I have the fucking pictures to prove it; and the refugee camp too.
I even made it into the local German town's newpaper sitting in a toy
store with other cute smiling Vietnamese kids straddling stuffed lions and
holding Matel toys with the approximate slogan "meet your new exotic
southeast asian FoB neighbors!" underneath it--we didn't get to keep a
single one of those damn toys. You know those cast off toy drives? Those
were _my_ toys. 
	I am not even your typical first generation malcontent if that's what
you are implying.  It is a can of worms because my nation of people were
forced to be a diaspora upon the other continents of the world. And if
possibly I were still in Vietnam and not here would I miss what I never
had?  Could I possibly imagine the excess and the horrors, the luxury and
the hardship?  Would I break from avalonian dreams or forget my dignity
and debase myself before a western tourist so I can craddle the buck that
would buy me my ticket outta there? Ignorance is not bliss, but knowledge
is so much worse.
	Oh my children will know, don't fret about that, because they
won't be born here.




> <<<Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the citizenship exam and
> been through the sworn in process?  I did it when I turned 18 (this is kinda
> funny, but for some reason both of my parents became naturalized when I was
> still a minor, technically making me a citizen too, but they forgot to declare
> me as their son--their only child--on their paperwork...go figure)>>> 
> 
> Haven't been sworn in and never witnessed it firsthand.  Took the exam and
> passed though.  I'm assuming you took the oath of your own free will.  And yet
> you maintain all these things wrong with the U.S.  You're like the person with
> a gambling problem, they keep complaining that the casino is cheating them but
> keep on coming back anyway.  It's the only game in town right?  But then
> there's always another casino.
> 

--> Sorry I can't empathize with you on that anology since I'm not a
gambler.  I didn't take the oath cause I wanted to; I had to if I ever
wanted to get off this rock. It was all for the passport baby.



> <<<I couldn't believe the list of possible exam questions, it would have
> eliminated the whole state of Kentucky as citizen material, at least.>>>
> 
> I would venture to say that there are some good people in Kentucky who would
> take umbrage at your comments.  You are the offspring of your own
> self-victimized existence.  There are idiots everywhere, not necessarily
> limited to Kentucky.

-->Self-victimized?  No...I know the good, and I know the bad...do YOU
know the difference?  Many don't.
	True they aren't limited to Kentucky, but there sure are a lot of
them there :)


> 
> <<<Too bad there weren't any questions about killing Injuns or enslaving Blacks
> or interning Japanese-Americans in concentration camps. If that wasn't bad
> enough I almost gagged during the swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last
> minute flight from SF to LA in the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock
> of nationalist propaganda shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and
> smelling apple pie with visions of the American dream and the statue of
> liberty, of course...they wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.>>>
> 
> Let me get this straight, you were attending an institution of higher learning
> in the U.S. where you petitioned to be a citizen (of the U.S.).  You got called
> to indeed be sworn in at the court house.  And you have the audacity to call
> the ceremony a "crock of nationalist propaganda shite (I'm assuming that's
> "shit" since you didn't mention you had any fuckin' Scottish in you (oops,
> pardon mon americain)."  
> 


-->I don't think you've been able _to_ get much straight concerning this
post, but it's okay cause you don't know where I'm coming from.  What are
you saying?  Only citizens of the USA deserve a higher education in this
nation?  I was forced to be at the swearing in; otherwise I wouldn't have
been able to get my certificate or passport and would have to wait another
couple of years before I was called up again...and all for a crock of
shite. I happen to like the Scotts and Irish, its the Brits I have
reservations about.  No, I don't think I have a single drop of Scottisch
blood in me, but I do speak English and German--does that place my
ethnicity in question too?  Oh, I forgot, you tried to use "spiel"
beforehand didn't you?




> I ask you, what country does not have nationalist propaganda in their
> citizenship swearing in ceremony?  Is there a country that says, "Hey thanks
> for coming down to our ceremony.  We know we're a bunch of bastards running
> this country trying to screw you all the time and we pretty much don't give a
> damn about you or your refugee, torn clothes wearin', funky food eatin',
> foreign language speakin' country asses.  But if you want to become a citizen
> of our extremely oppressive and prejudiced country, then by God, which everyone
> should believe in, homosexuals excluded, please join us." Give me an as yet
> never before seen huge break will ya'?  BTW, many immigrants did not understand
> that you had to declare children so they could automatically become citizens. 
> I think it might have been a language barrier in the legalese of documents.
> 


-->It would be refreshing though to get the truth from the gov't at least
once in a lifetime; at least you'll know what you're getting yourself
into.


> <<<But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
> passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
> to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
> bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.>>>
> 
> Is that what citizenship is reduced to?  Hassle free international travel and a
> vote every now and then?  I'd love to have those rights and more.

-->Pretty much. You don't have to be a citizen to die for this country you
know, but don't even try to run for office w/o it.


> 
> <<<I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived in Germany,
> I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have also lived in
> freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout price comparisons and
> informed decisions. And even though the USA is the lesser evil, it's still got
> a long ways to go.>>>
> 
> Congrats on accumulating travel stamps.  But what do you bring to the table
> other than "the U.S. sucks because I've lived elsewhere?"  You said so
> yourself, the lesser evil?  Instead of creating your own utopia somewhere,
> you've chosen the lesser evil, thereby ingratiating yourself to all the other
> whiners about "I don't get a fair shake 'cause I'm a minority and I'm going to
> tell everybody how this country jukes me everytime."
> 

-->Yeah, I'm kinda proud of my passport stamps too :)  Of course I chose
the lesser evil, what, you expect me to choose Botswana instead? I'm
obnoxious, but I'm not a fool. If I and other minorities don't speak out,
who will?  If we just sit and take it, who's gonna rally for legislation
reform?  Why don't you go create your own Utopia in the projects or the
flats of death valley?



> <<<What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
> abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
> It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
> international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.>>>
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, the comparison of marshal law (brought on by a
> country's government) and AIDS is a stretch.  Unless you're saying that the
> U.S. government unleashed AIDS on its citizens.  Those other problems you
> mentioned are not only in the U.S. but elsewhere.
> 

-->I'm not accussing the gov't of unleashing AIDS cause I don't have
access to classifed files, but they are damn slow 'bout providing funding
and back-up for the cure of it though...seems like the gov't is dragging
their feet, if you know what I mean...but you probably don't.



> I said:
> I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
> forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
> (imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
>  
> DISCO 2000,
> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
>  
> 
> <<<You said: I'm not gonna say a single word about that one, not a single one,
> cuz I've said plenty in previous threads about it already.>>>
> 
> Yeah, you've said enough alright.  Enough to let others of non-minority
> backgroud get the wrong idea about immigrants.  I'm glad you don't speak for
> minorities (and neither do I for that matter).  Your points of view contribute
> to a food stamp state.  Can you get the correlation?  Please use all your
> superior to Europeans' education for edification.  My main points are, if you
> don't like it, get out.  Quit being a victim looking for excuses why your life
> is not what you want it to be.  Be proud of your family history, where you are
> from and who you are.  Oh fuck, that's it already, I sound like the 'rents. 
> I'm out like a scout with no doubt.  Peace y'all!

-->Don't give me this bull 'bout the wrong idea about immigrants.  Your
mama was an immigrant and your grandmama and her mama before her and
so on until you find your FoB ancestor in the mists of time; you tell that
to their underpaid  no skill working 80 hour shifts in non-safe
child-ploitation immmigrant-enslaving rat infested hovel dwelling not
enough to eat bread stealing garbage rummaging rag encrusted non washed
bodies dirty smeared faces when they complained to the big boss man,
boyee...wow, almost feel like I'm a NYC person or somethin'.  
	I don't speak for anybody but for myself, and you just correlated
yourself there buddy, cuz most of Europe is a food stamp socialist state.
THanks for the tips, I think I'll go change my life now--I feel so
motivated; as if I just shook the hand of the father of this great nation
George " the mighty" Washington and received blessing from the ever
saintly abolitionist and saviour of us all: Abraham Lincoln, hallelujah!


> 
> <<<I'm surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth
> off so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time.>>>
> 
> How's that for crucifiction?  Do your hands and feet hurt yet?  I got a crown
> of thorns in my desk I can FedEx ya if ya likes.  Hah!  I slay me!
> 

-->Hurt me baby. If you make it good I'll let you borrow my whip, but
let me handcuff myself to a cactus first and then you go at it.  Oh
yeah, Oh yeah, OH Yeah, OH YEAH MOTHER OF GAWD use that stapler on me big
daddy, devirginize me with that huge hot saucepan...do it now!!!!



Wow, thanks. You got me all excited.
:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 20:18:05 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: RE: Filipino?
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=XGrRLsTrX+40aol+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of 01-17-98 14:25

No offense taken, hell even Minh makes me laugh.  You can't say much to me that
would piss me off.  If I don't like it I just tune out.  So don't worry miss
thing, say whatever the hell you want.  Just remember this is all being saved
for posterity, at least I'd like to think that's the only reason.

Yeah, I can understand that there aren't many Filipinos in Marin.  I hang in
Tiburon sometimes when I'm up in SF.  But hey, that's what the city is for. 
You gotta get out girl. ;-)

Now that you know the root of the term "flip", then you can still use the term
kinda like using "ghetto child" in a humorous way.  Just that in the wrong
context, it's a major faux pas.  I speak from experience so let's not go there.

Look out for the Sunshine Daydream party in Feb.  My friends are throwing it at
VSF and it should be a real positive vibe with a real focus on the music. 
It'll probably be posted here as a BSP soon.

Aight den little miss missy, I'm out for now.  

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"...not everyone understands house music...it's a spiritual thing...a body
thing...a soul thing..."


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In a message dated 98-01-16 14:49:33 EST, you write:

<< That's odd, I know lots of Filipino people who go to raves.  It's a music
 thing, if it's good I figure anyone of any race will go party. 

Of course anyone from any race will go party! It's just that I live in Marin
County where there are virtually no Filipinos and ravers, let alone a hybrid
of the two, so i've never really met any Filipino ravers...I know they're out
there!
 
<< It was a rather derogatory term used in the past.  Kinda like calling all
 African-Americans (black people, whatever you prefer, help me on the PC thing
 here anyone) "nigga."  Might be alright for someone of the same race to use
the
 terms above but it is generally viewed, rather it is my opinion that a person
 of another race would be looked upon with contempt when using these terms.

I was not very aware of that, because in my family, when the word "flip" is
used, it's for humor purposes...
 
<< BTW, yeah, I was born there and am a nationalist still.  Call me "pinoy"
 anytime you want instead.  

I'm very sorry if i offended you! i didn't mean to....My mistake! =]
 
 <<This message has been brought to you by my collective guilt perpetuated by
 years of militant Roman Catholic upbringing.  And also by the ringing in my
 ears of my parents asking me, "Are you only concerned with yourself?  What
will
 you do for your countrymen and fellow humans?"

Do I know how that's like. It's calmed down a lot though since I've moved
here...since I 'm far from relatives...
 
<< Fack!  I tell ya it's getting harder on these family visits.  If it wasn't
for
 the funk keepin' my perpetual groove on, I'd be straight jacket bound.  

LOL! =*D



-=~*LaUrE@*~=-



sPaCe aNd ~^~bASs~^~ iN yOuR fAce*



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 20:35:34 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
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Subject: Lightseed
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Hey all!

Well tis me, the Haze-Machine sending out mail after her several day
absence (man you guys write a lot of mail!). 

This weekend:

What's everyone doing? I'm wanting to go raving and I was thinking of
going to Lightseed.  Anyone know the scoop on it? It looks like it would
be a massive.  Having never been to a massive, can anyone drop me a few
clues/opinions of them?

I'm planning on dragging one of my friends to his first rave, get him out
of the goth/industrial thing and transform him into a happy shiny raver!
:) (Or at least part time raver. ;) )

If you aren't going to Lightseed, where are you planning on going, and
why? :)



                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 20:46:42 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:32:13 EST
To: groovinkim@connectexpress.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Love A-Fair/Underground Carnival
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Hey there KIM.... =o)
   I wanted to responed to your POST. Well first of all I want to say I have
been to everyone of Vlads parties and I can say this much!!!!   VIBE VIBE
VIBE... This is one of those parties where the SF Family (ravers) always go..
I can say that I have never been disapointed in any one of his parties!!!!  He
just knows how to bring all together and have it be a great  FUN and
rememerable time. I also went to last years LOVE 
A-FAIR and all I can say is WOW....  Him and his girlfriend did a incredible
job. Everyone that I know and even the ones I dont know still talk about it.
The Guy that thought of the Idea of having the bus trips from Seattle and LA
to San Francisco told me about the Seattle rave secne and said that he couldnt
believe how incrediable it was and that so many of you Seattlers wanted to
come and join us. I think it would be so great if you decided to come here.
There is a bus also from LA coming here to SF as well... Vlad and his
girlfriend have been working really hard on this one to0, as well as ROBRAVE.
He is this most fun loving and great guy I have ever met. He is the one that
put together the bus from your city, and he goes to so many of your parties in
Seattle.  He is also on the list here if you ever have any questions. His e-
mail address is RobRave @aol.com  You should talk to him in more  detail...Or
you can just talk to Vlad... He is honest and he will tell you anything you
want to know. Even if it is his party he is down with everyone and even those
who throw other parites. He is one of those Promoters, producers and ravers
that have been around along time and who throws parties from the heart. AND
will never put down another Party giver . I think it would be so much fun
taking a bus with all my friends to your city as well. I also wanted to
comment on the LA party. I have been to some and I only really had one good
experience. There were so many problems and it was not organize at all, but I
guess everyone has problems. Maybe I just went to the wrong ones thats all. I
know that Feel GOODs have always been GREAT and never a disapointment!!!  It
is going to be alot of fun at LOVE A-FAIR. Rides, games,MUSIC, dancing,smiling
faces, great peppppole did I say MUSIC>>>> =o)  Well I thought you wanted to
know that!!! I have been to them all and if anyone knows about FEEL GOOD'S
parties it is ME and I have much respect for thier parties. Vlad is one of the
most giving men that I have ever known!!! He stands behind his name FEEL GOOD
and over the last 8 years I have seen him do so much for this community and
for us as ravers.... I know alot of pepole on this list give him hell but when
I read some of those negative posts about him all I can do is Laugh at them
because they have not been around long enough to know what is up. I feel
really sorry for them but they are cluelesssss when it come to some pepole.
ANYWAYS.........  Kim get a hold of ROBRAVE if you have anymore questions. I
know he would be happy to fill you in on anything you want know. I hope to see
you out there!!!!  I will be at the ravers racetrack watching the guys  and
girl go for the gold..... hehehe That is going to be a blast to watch!!!! 
                                                                  Peace and
much Love,  
P.S.  The price is great!
RAVEN
 I hope I can come to your city for a party
for $75 Bucks one day.... That would be a blast...

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 21:07:25 1998
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Subject: i have a question
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	I am writing an article and would like to
get responses to the following question,
in order to fill out the piece. Please respond to me
privately, and please keep your answers brief and to
the point! One paragraph, or a few sentences will do.
	I can't promise they will be
printed, and they won't be credited with
your individual names.  All responses are
confidential. The article is about
drug dealers, and how it relates to the
underground dance culture.
	So - here's the question:

What do you think about drug dealers?




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 21:11:01 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Everyone pls read! Re:  !~raves and politics~!
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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Minh Le and John Lee, damn I'm having a discussion with a freakin' gook and a
chink!  That's it, I feel disgusted that I would waste my thoughts on such
inferior substitutes for humans! (see below)



Ofcourse I am not serious in the statements above.  NOW you know that I am not,
I am curious as to your reaction.  Was it, "I wonder why he said that?", or was
it, "That fucking asshole, wait until I flame his ass and tell him what I
think!"  Just an exercise on your personal reaction to words.  I had to
evaluate my actions in the past and change the way I thought.

I will say that, IMHO, Minh seems to be defensive.  John, I appreciate your
thoughts and think that you truly understand that what anger you have at
the U.S. of historical events regarding your heritage needs to be redirected to
positive actions.

Furthermore, I think that I am tired of the apparent intellectual flexing of
Minh.  Therefore, I will only contribute to this topic when I feel that Minh is
not talking down to us, or anyone else for that matter.  While John and myself
have conceded when Minh has made some good points, we do not know if our points
are being considered in the least.  Hey Genghis Minh, it's a discussion miss
thing, not a witch hunt for your personal (or anyone else's) version of the
truth.  Although your fervency in your beliefs (ala Middle East terrorists) is
admirable, clearly you cannot beat it in to people by force.  It's a stretch,
but I don't give a damns, I'll go with it.

I must say emphatically, that my demeanor when writing to this list is always
one of gratefulness that this medium exists.  Additionally, my disposition is
generally sunny, being in Hawaii helps.  So don't take everything at life and
death.  Not everything is a conspiracy.  BTW, you will all find out that Mulder
is actually an alien that the government has been trying to mold all along. 
Scully is really his mother who doesn't age and she was chosen to keep an eye
on him.  This is from an extremely reliable source.

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"...gettin down just for the funk of it..."







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At 2:42 PM -0800 1/17/98, Minh Q. Le wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:
>
>> I am also tired of the "SF is the best place on earth, and the south sucks"
>> attitude:
>
>-->Well, that's because it's true, so there :)

You forgot IMHO.  To the homeless who have to deal with weather
circumstances, I am not sure, other than the generous nature of the people
here, that this place is the bomb.  Or the people who have been forcibly
relocated (hayes Valley Projects), or the elderly who have had the largest
number of move-in evictions in SF history.

Please, this place is what it is to the people who live here.  A heaven or
hell on earth, it depends on who you ask.

<snip>

>> >
>> >-->I _have_ lived somewhere else and I still think the U.S. is lame.  I
>> >just like San Francisco, that's all. Believe me, I wouldn't want to be
>> >stuck in the heart of Texas, the South, or the MIdwest because I would
>> >probably get lynched.
>>
>> Hmm...remember the killings of an Asian girl (I think two) in Concord.
>> What about the wonderful sex trade of teenage Asian girls here in wunnerful
>> SF.  As for being lynched, the best lynchings have occured here of late,
>> NOT in the south.  There are mor blacks in the south than out here in the
>> west, and blacks, in general, have done well in the south.  I have few
>> gripes with the South because out there, they call it as they see it, and
>> don;t spend time dancing around issues.  You know if you're liked or
>> disliked.  But in general, unlike here, people leave each other alone.
>
>-->Have you been to Concord?

Yes.

>Do you know what that place looks like?

Yes.

>I
>don't think it's the safest place in the world.

No place really is.

>YOu need to give more
>details about the killings cause I don't know what you are trying to say;

Simple:  Racially motivated killings have occured here in Ca. and the bay
area along with other places.  Go get the Justice Departnets stats on Hate
Crimes '96.

Alos there was a lynching in Concord of a black man.  The person I am
talking of in Concord was killed on her way to a Bart station, a bullet to
the back of the head.  The same for one Asian man.  Of course, like the
lynching they have found nobody.  racially motivated?  I dunno, but every
state has it's shit, and for the record, the WEST is number one with all of
it's right wing activity and fanatics around.  BTW, hate crimes in the Gay
community was at a record high in 96 I beleive.  Right here in the Bay
Area.  Heaven on earth?  No it's just another place on earth, with it's own
problems.  No better or worse than the south.  The best place for you may
not be the bnest place for me.  FYI.

>was it proven they were killed because they were Asian, or was it just a
>crime against women? The sex trade of Teenage asian children is centered
>around Bangok (I think; somewhere around that area in any regard) and the
>reason SF is involved is because SF has always been the "gate" to the
>Pacific and the East...it's a question of demographics, not urban moral
>decay.

Fact:  There is a large amount of illegal sex trade in SF occuring with
young often Teenage Sex Slaves.  All the rest of that is minutea to the
fact that San Franciscans are perpetuating this by going to these illegal
sex slave dens.  this is happening here, not in Bangkok.  I know where it
comes from, that is not the point, where it is occurring IS the point.  SO
another mark against SF.

> There are more blacks in the South because that's were all the
>plantations used to be. And the reason lynchings in the South aren't as
>visible is probably cause it is more common and most likely covered up
>than out here.  I can't prove that assertion, true, but it is possible,
>isn't it?

Please.  There are more blacks in the south for a number of reasons, first
you discount the migration north, midwest, and the west.  You also have to
take into account the fact that MANY blacks are moving back to the South.
Why?  Racial and eceonomic conditoions are BETTER than those offered in the
west, midwest, and the northeast.  One reason why a city like Atlanta, run
almost entirely by blacks, but has a large white population is thriving.
And guess what , people get along.

Crime stats have CONSISTENTLY showed that the large number of crimes
against person occur WITHING the racial group.  Even in the south.  I am
from the South and don;t like anyone talking shit azbout the region of the
country that has gone through more shit than almost anywhere else.  Yes, it
is not perfect, but they have come much farther in race relations than
anywhere out here.  Let's not forget where 209 started!

Thanks.

>	According to FBI reports, crimes against homosexuals is 12% of all
>hate crimes, but SF accounts for 35% of those reported (written up by
>the police as such) and Alabama 0%. You're not gonna tell me that there
>are no hate crimes against gays in Alabama, now are you?

No, it does tell me that there are more hate crimes here against gays than
in Alabama though.  What is your point?

>	What, it's okay to show racial hate and dislike in public?

Here in Ca. it is considered "bad taste", in the South, it is considered
"bad taste" but people do it.  The difference with racism here is that
racism is often under the surface, whereas in the South it is in your face.
How do I like it?  Where I can see it!

>I
>don't think it's healthy to live in such an environment...to know that
>half the population hates you cause your black/greeen/yellow/purple/
>red/orange, and are able to verbally (if not physically) harass you with
>impunity.

I do not beleive this.  There are no facts toback up this assertion.

>Yeah they call it like it is...kids call it like it is too;
>look at his hare's lip, look at her braces, look at her limp, look at his
>glasses, look at his funny nose, etc. etc. etc., but it still doesn't make
>it more noble or admirable.

You point?

>	Dancing around issues? Okay, PC-ness had gotten a bit out of
>control, but if an asshole thinks that minorities are inferior he better
>damn also know that it's not socially acceptable to believe that and
>should feel more than just the guilt of trying to voice it in public,
>cause he damn well knows there are going to be 20 people jumping on him if
>he does.
>
>
>> Now
>> compare that to SF, who has just recently asked the courts to recind the
>> order to desegregate the fire dept.  The police dept. of SF just got it's
>> first FEMALE homocide detective.  Give me a break.  SF is a great place to
>> be, but there are other places that are great as well.  SF seems on teh
>> surface to be very, very, progressive, and there are things about it that
>> are.
>
>--> SF is a _city_ and an urban sprawl.

It is NOt an urban sprawl.  It cannot grow.  We are confined to a 49 square
mile space.

>Not only liberals and lefties and
>pacifists and gays and lesbians and etc live here, but the total opposite
>does too.

In the severe minority .

>  Like any city, it is a mosaic of residents that contribute to
>its character, and to expect SF to be only one sided and on the Hippie
>track is to underestimate the possibilites of the city.

I have seen some of the possibilites, and one of those is the massivce
gentrification.  That does not sit well with me, does it with you?

> Of course there
>are other great places in the world, but why are you here?

I like the views, the weather, the people, and the ladies.  I got my
wonderful lady, but I do love SF women, they are the absolute bomb!

>If it was your
>personal choice, then that's your answer right there, people have
>different needs and expectations, but the city manages to steal most
>visitors hearts within the very first few seconds and keep it too...not
>many other places can claim that.

Alot of places can claim that.  Miami, NY, Portand, Seattle to name a few.

>
>
>> So tell me how many all night parties you can legally attend in this
>> wonderful liberal city, 2.  Compare that to a republican state like NY,
>> where you literally can go all night.
>
>-->Answer me this: How big is NYC (I assume that's what you meant?)
>compared to SF?  How much larger is the police force of NYC compared to
>SF?  Does NYC share  California's legislation of a 2AM limit on alcohol
>being served?  It's not only SF that practically goes to bed at 2AM, but
>LA, and SD do too; it's statewide my friend.

Due to the restrictive nature of the laws I gurantee.  I copme from Miami
and they don;t have any of these dumb freedom limiting laws.  And that is
the South my friend.  You can drink when you want.

>
>
>
>> The best, maybe to some, to me this
>> place has a long way to cathc up.  You can;t even have a beer outside in a
>> cafe setting because of the restrictive ABC laws,  you can't even see some
>> naked people and have a drink here in "liberal" SF.  Puhleeze.
>>
>
>-->SF happens to be in the state of California, and even if certain
>city ordinances allow for certain behaviour, I assume (I'm not a lawyer, I
>wouldn't know for sure) state legislation overrides city legislation and
>our lovable wonderful affable and oh so very liberal governor Pete Wilson
>will allow Marijuana as a lunchtime option in high school caffeterias next
>term.  SF might have the reputation as being liberal, but the more
>populated and richer southern half of the state has a wee bit more pull.
>
>
>> Rodney King happened here need I remind you, not in the South.
>
>-->Rodney King happened in LA, not here, get your facts right. And if an
>enterprising southerner ever learned how to use a camcorder once he can
>afford it, he might be able to film something like that there too, but the
>police would probably shoot him first. Okay, that was a low blow to all
>southerners and I apologize, but LA is a hotbed of tension, and Rodney
>King could have happened anywhere in the USA, it just happened to be
>filmed in LA; like all your other television programs and movies :)

I was not talking about SF obviously I was talking about LA, fine what
about all the minorities that have died in SFPOD hands, like AAron
Williams?  I rest my case (and he is not the only one, some 13 people have
died in SFPD custody.  This wunnerful liberal city).

I love this place, but it has it serious problems and is like many of the
places you are afraid of becuase you might be lynched.  In a sense I have
more to worry about than you considering the stats.  Latinos and blacks are
under attack in this SF or some might say.  But I'm glad it's the bomb for
you.


>
>
>>
>> > You see, I am not European, i don't look European,
>> >and even though I am more educated than most Europeans, I can't pass as
>> >a European, and since the majority of US stock is still mostly European-
>> >descendant I will get the shorter heavier end of the stick.
>>
>> Victim mentality, it's up to you.  There are barriers, yes, but if you pool
>> your money together, as many Asians do, anything is possible.  Blacks
>> haven;t done this so we and Natives tend to be on the shortest end, Asians
>> especially recent immigrants, do this and along with a great emphasis on
>> education have done relatively well here in the States and in Cali
>> especially.
>
>-->It is not victim mentality, it is based on numerous personal
>exxperience as well as the experiences from others. Did I ever say I
>wouldn't succeed in life because I was Asian?  I don't ever recall saying
>that, so why are you upraiding me for it? Don't make the mistake of
>comparing cultures, it will only negate your argument and make you look
>like a fool (honestly--not as an insult or as a joke, but as sound
>advice).

Nope. All I am saying is that many groups FoB as you say pool thier money
and make it.  The only two groups who have not done so have been African
Americans and Native Americans.  Primarily because these two groups are not
immigrants and suffer from long standing hypocrisy of this govt.  You are
crying, or so it seems, because you're so called FoB.  Well the stats
indicate the "man" isn't keeping you down as much as you say.  Chinese make
95% on the dollar, Japanese make 90% on the dollar, Vietnamese make 90% on
the dollar.  Check the last census.

The only fool is the fool who cries victim about some "man" keeping him
down.  That is a victim mentality.  Take it froma descendant of slaves, it
takes you nowhere.

>
>
>>
>> >And since I
>> >am an FoB from Vietnam and everyone knows that can of worms, I am not that
>> >popular with veterans groups either.
>>
>> Who cares?  Many vietnamese brothers I know start collectives, become
>> entrprenuers, and stomp!  That's the program for success that many
>> immigrant groups have used to get ahead.  Even Haitians in Fla. are doing
>> so much better than the Indigenous Black population in Miami (where blacks
>> have been for over 150 years).  The onyl barrier, it seems, for most recent
>> emigres is the barriers of the mind.  Usually though it can be traversed
>> via economics because here on this sorry asse rock called the USA, MOENY
>> RULES!
>
>-->That sentence was originally meant in irony by going overboard and
>being melodramatic (see sig.) in addition to everyting else that was
>being said in the passage, but since everyone seems to love it so much,
>I guess I have to take it at face value too. Why do you keep mentioning
>black trivia to me? Do you have a victim mentality?

Trivia?  Facts.

>
>
>>
>> >	Have you ever taken or known someone that has taken the
>> >citizenship exam and been through the sworn in process?
>>
>> Being A citizen of New Mother Rome, I needed not take any entrance exams.
>> Massah didn;t have time for all that crap, he needed us for work, and
>> breeding.
>
>-->Heh? Where is New Mother Rome, what are you talking about? Oh, you mean
>slavery, didn't Abe Lincoln put that matter to rest already? (Irony alert)

I have always said that America is like the Great Roman Empire (the empire
I admire the most BTW, see the archives).  I beleive she is blossoming into
her full glory.  Now since I have some income,I will certainly entertain
and enjoy myself.  That is unitl she crumbles like the sister before her.

>
>
>>
>> >I did it when I
>> >turned 18 (this is kinda funny, but for some reason both of my parents
>> >became naturalized when I was still a minor, technically making me a
>> >citizen too, but they forgot to declare me as their son--their only
>> >child--on their paperwork...go figure) and after numerous years of
>> >elementary, junior high, and high school American history indoctrination
>> >my BS alarm was going super-balistic. I couldn't believe the list of
>>possible
>> >exam questions, it would have eliminated the whole state of Kentucky as
>> >citizen material, at least. Too bad there weren't any questions about
>> >killing Injuns or enslaving Blacks or interning Japanese-Americans in
>> >concentration camps.
>>
>> Sarcasm on:
>> All that stuff?  C'mon, it happened a long time ago, who cares, it is what
>> is going on now that counts.
>>
>> Sarcasm off!
>>
>> Sad that most Americans have such a short view, but you see, history has
>> never been America's strong suit.  We're to busy re-writing it to pay
>> attention to details, much less the truth.
>>
>
>-->History repeats itself and you cannot rewrite history because it has
>already happened (you can, however, reinterpret it; like so many do...for
>better or worse). You lose the future to the past if you ignore history,
>beware!

The winner always re-write history.  The truth surfaces I agree.

>
>
>
>> >If that wasn't bad enough I almost gagged during the
>> >swearing in ceremony; I had to book a last minute flight from SF to LA in
>> >the midst of finals to bear witness to a crock of nationalist propaganda
>> >shite...waving little flags of stars'n'stripes and smelling apple pie with
>> >visions of the American dream and the statue of liberty, of course...they
>> >wouldn't mail me the damn certificate.
>>
>> Your ingratitude shows.  If you hate this place so much why even bother.
>> Was Vietnam better?
>>
>
>-->Ingratitute at what?  That I am a human being born on this Earth to
>live and try to function normally with happiness as a possible perk? We
>are all of the same stuff, you and me, the grains and tears of stars from
>that long ago explosion in space (misquoted from someone, I know) we are
>no different in that respect, some just happen to tan better than others,
>is that a cause for pain? I have every right to be here as the next person
>because all of humanity originated someplace else besides here. You mean I
>can't move from the projects to the 'burbs cause of my last name and some
>fucked up zoning regulations?  That's bunk!

I'm sorry, you must be living a Star Trek existence.  I live in America
which resides on planet earth.  We have rules here as a nation.  If you
cannot abide by these rules you can leave orbe incarcerated.  If this place
was such a dump why the big fight to join it's ranks and vote in it's
election.  The earth citizen doesn't exist yet.  You're far ahead of your
time.  Your right to be here ends where the govt. says it ends.  Sad but
true.  But do';t slam this place while at the same time fighting to get in.
It's the height of hypocrisy.

>
>> >	But a sweet certificate it is, because I have one of the stronger
>> >passports in the world (unless I go to Lybia or something), I don't have
>> >to deal with INS (immigration & naturalization "service"--five times as
>> >bad as the DMV) anymore, and ohhhh, don't hold your breath, I get to vote.
>> >	I have lived in Vietnam, I have lived in Singapore, I have lived
>> >in Germany, I have lived in the UK, I have lived in the States, and I have
>> >also lived in freakin' Tahiti gawdsakes, so I know a thing or two 'bout
>> >price comparisons and informed decisions. And even though the USA is the
>> >lesser evil, it's still got a long ways to go.
>>
>> Agreed, but it's still better than any of those places.  Proof?  You're
>> here and not at any of those locales.
>
>-->That's what I said didn't I?

Then why bag on the ritual to join?  It's the price all immigrants pay.  So
pay up, shut up, and participate (at which time you can slam the hell out
of it, but not while fighting to become a citizen...we got enough upstarts!
;) ).

>
>
>>
>> >
>> >> I do what I can but I know the limits, living under marshal law is
>> >> unpleasant to say the least...until you see people dying around you
>>for no
>> >> reason,
>> >
>> >-->What do you call the AIDS epidemic?  How 'bout homelessness, child
>> >abuse, racial crimes, gang violence, and the vicious cycle of poverty?
>> >It most certainly is a war zone out there, but lucky for us we have an
>> >international war every 20 years or so to divert our attention from it.
>>
>> AIDS is a disease, for the most part, that can be totally prevented.  It is
>> a disease of behaviour for the most part.
>>
>> I agree with your assertions.
>
>-->AIDS is more than a disease, it is a social catalyst that has far
>reaching consequences.  What will happen when the 99.9% (exageration) of
>Africa dies because the disease starts to become active?

The WHO has often been cited as being wrong with it's asserttion.  People
die in Africa they call it aids, people die of pestilence, they call it
AIDS, people die of starvation, they call it AIDS.  Fact gathering in that
region is haphazard at best.


>It is marshal
>law in the sense that you can't have a "normal" relationship with someone
>with AIDS (cool down, let me explain) and live a life w/o anxiety. How do
>you protect them from all the ignorance and fear still out there about the
>disease?  How do you protect yourself?

Don't have sex.

> How do you deal when you have found
>your soulmate just to know that you will lose them in countable moments?

Terrible.

>How much more has sex been tainted from a normal biological act to one of
>shame, fear, and possible death?

If it was purely A biologival act, we wouldn;t have AIDS.  SInce it is much
more than that, we pay the consequences.  Something about the sins of the
father...

> Why do we have to protect ourselves from
>death in the act of love?

Because love unbridled kills.  Anything unbridled kills.  Ask any of the
dead Ceasars.

>Ask yourself why AIDS is more than what it
>appears to be. And if you don't worry about AIDS and you think you will
>live forever because you are young and nothing can touch you, you are
>fucked up in the head. (directed at everyone)


I am not fucked up because I am in a monogomous relationship and that's
pretty much it.  I won;t get aids because I don;t fuck around.  I don't do
any ricky behaviour so, I am safe.  That is until I get into an accident
and I get bad blood...
>
>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> I for one am glad to be living as a guest here in the U.S., lest we
>> >> forget that this country is still the bastion of democracy in the world
>> >> (imperfect as the U.S. may be)...peace y'all...
>> >>
>> >> DISCO 2000,
>> >> moki4u2c@hotmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >-->I'm not gonna say a single word about that one, not a single one, cuz
>> >I've said plenty in previous threads about it already.
>> >
>> >
>> >:)
>> >M&m
>> >
>> >
>> >PS	I think San Francisco has the best quality raves of all, and I'm
>> >surprised I haven't gotten more shit from y'alls for blasting my mouth off
>> >so much...gawd knows randy dreams gets crucified all the time :)  Now does
>> >that make it rave related?
>>
>> So, when will the great SF allow all night parties?  This place ocould use
>> some enemas too!
>
>-->There are all-night parties happening all the time, check out the
>underground.  I think SF uses a bit too many enemas if you ask me, but we
>won't get into that...unless you want to :)

Coffee, tea, or hot boiling water...ohhh the relief! :)

>
>:)
>M&m

Peace,
John


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 21:30:38 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:18:46 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, hai_la@yahoo.com
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OHMIGOD
As my refrigerator magnet says: "Crap. I am blushing!"

I am the most horrific shade of magenta!!!

Hai, you better watch out cuz my HUGZ are LETHAL   =D  =D


crawling back under her rock and picking her jaw up 
off the floor,
natasha  =P

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 21:46:47 1998
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>> IT IS THE HARDEST, FLATTEST PLAYA YOU CAN IMAGINE.  The ground is so hard
>> that when cars drive over it, very little dust is stirred up.


turntable heaven!!!

or at least, not turntable hell.

and Hernan, your "Greasy Handjob for Beer Co-op" tent just might be a
success this year---finally!

;o)

b))m



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 22:02:39 1998
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=jsl+40twenty-hz+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of 01-18-98 10:20

Minh Le said:
>maybe it's because I haven't built up enough defensive
>shields to ward it off; but that's how it should be, a person should not
>be forced to live with fear or hard defensive shields.

John Lee said:
Indeed, they should never have to deal with anything so hard core, instead
everything should be masked so that more initiative such as 187 and 209 can
be passed.  Which may have altered your status BTW.  I guess that's how you
want it, wondering why there is such anti-immigrant feeling meanwhile
everything is lollypops and roses at the raves.  Hell, everyone likes you
so who in the hell doesn;t want you here?  You'll never know because it is
hidden from view like a tampon.  You haven;t learned a thing from Nazi
Germany huh?  Look, as pa person with a long standing legacy I will tell
you this, you don;t want this shit underground, that is the worse place it
should be.  Racism should be visible so like a cancer you can attack it.
The same for all teh other isms.  The second it goes underground is when
you have a real problem.  For it will hit you and you didn;t see it coming.
Like 187 and 209, suprise suprise, all that diversity and still those two
laws passed.  Good lawdy...



~~~> John, I agree with what you said and it reminds me when the point you
made above finally dawned on me.  It was some years ago and I immediately wrote
 a piece, poem, thoughts, whatever, I don't like labels.  I write though I do
not claim to be a writer.

"Tuesday and Thursday, 2:00 p.m. until 3:15 p.m."

Someone save me, during this state of removal
from what is going on, during this time when the 
interpretive skills are lost on the unclarity of
the souls pushing the walls of this room.
When the poems being read beg to be absorbed
like the poisonous venom of a cobra, making one
unsure of what is, just before death, just before
complete enlightenment, when the pirce is agreed upon.
When the poems stop screaming to be understood
and everyone screams yes, yes, I see!
Then I will close my book and lay awake on sleepless nights,
knowing we have entered a spell of dangerous times.


DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com

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From: NINJARAVER <NINJARAVER@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:19:30 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: 23AM Belated Review
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I finally got Robert Miles new album.  Or atleast got a copy of it.

Kinda a mix between soul and trance or somthin.
Not bad if yer lookin for some relaxing, kick back, studying music.  

Although, Orbital is good for the same thing, and is ten times better(than
almost anything).

>:l

FROGMAN

Behind each perilous leap, there is a purpose, an intention, an individual,
and emotion.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 22:44:53 1998
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From: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>
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To: ech@hooked.net (j)
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> 	So - here's the question:
> 
> What do you think about drug dealers?

Sometimes they can be a real pain.  I mean, sure, companies like Johnson
and Johnson, and Glaxo and Park-Davis make some chemicals that really do
help save lives and make us healthier.  On the other hand, they are
capitalistic companies, so often times they are more concerned about making
money than actually helping people.  I mean, c'mon, "Prozak for Kids"... 
thats just a little bit evil.  

-troy

ps:  Yes, I am mocking the fact that your quesiton is *way* too broad.  There
are drug dealers of all different sorts, big, small, ligit, underground,
good, evil.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tsheets@saturn5.com                        <- You have found me   
tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com                  <- Official Use Only
http://www.saturn5.com/tsheets/            <- Instant Content
troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com               <- Inquire Within

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 23:11:04 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:01:57 -1000
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From: silent@sirius.com (silent records)
Subject: loveworks dancing
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             this saturday january 24, 1998

          the loveworks organisation presents:

    l  o  v  e  w  o  r  k  s     d  a  n  c  i  n  g

          ' a saturday night disco adventure '


           featuring dj's dani and matt valenz


                      your hosts:

        dianna jacobs / mark evans / nori castillo

                gatekeepers:  john + reed

                   5 samolians, mac !

                     seven >>> two

                          @

             the 111 minna street gallery
     btwn 2nd / new montgomery / mission / howard

      love   laughs   incense   flowers   candles

    classics * soul * funk * terrifying house music

tonight will also be our annual aquarius party in honor of
    the water bearing brothers and sisters of the earth
    and will be in special observance of the birthdays
                of nori, matt, and eduardo

              p l e a s e   j o i n   u s  !

                      full info:

                     415 646 0744

                  love and respect...




                      loveworks



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 20 23:14:03 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:32:27 -0800
From: just jer <jer@best.com>
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massive... I THINK NOT!!! =) Lightseed parties are some of the _BEST_
undergrounds. Their parties are a 'lil different than your typical
underground.... dunno how... but it definately is different! and OH OH
OH SO GOOD! =) go.. I swear you will NOT regret it! =) Lightseed RULES!
=) seriously!. They're parties are on in my top 3 parties to always go
to!

hope to see ya there, jer =)

Haze wrote:
> 
> Hey all!
> 
> Well tis me, the Haze-Machine sending out mail after her several day
> absence (man you guys write a lot of mail!).
> 
> This weekend:
> 
> What's everyone doing? I'm wanting to go raving and I was thinking of
> going to Lightseed.  Anyone know the scoop on it? It looks like it would
> be a massive.  Having never been to a massive, can anyone drop me a few
> clues/opinions of them?
> 
> I'm planning on dragging one of my friends to his first rave, get him out
> of the goth/industrial thing and transform him into a happy shiny raver!
> :) (Or at least part time raver. ;) )
> 
> If you aren't going to Lightseed, where are you planning on going, and
> why? :)
> 
>                                    Haze
>  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
>  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
>  +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
>  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:07:08 1998
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From: CheerioHN <CheerioHN@AOL.COM>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:40:43 EST
To: jer@best.com, haze@netgate.net
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Subject: Re: Lightseed - NOT MASSIVE AT ALL!
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NO KIDDIN! lightseed partys always go way the funk off!!! i wish i could go!!!
lots of love n'snow
JiL :o)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:11:31 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:09:12 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com>
Subject: BSP: Static tonight and Friday...
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Just wanted to mention that tickets for the Static 1 year anniversary party
this Friday will be available tonight at the Static weekly, as well as at
Drop Beat Records in Oakland (5417 College Ave., near Rockridge Bart) and
Open Mind Music in San Francisco (342 Divisadero).

This will be our first all night, all ages event, and will feature two
sound systems with all 5 resident Static djs along with a special LIVE
performance by Freaky Chakra and guest djs Joe Rice, Shoam, Maiz, Sig, and
more.  For info, call 
415-789-8308.

Tickets are $10 and are limited to only 200.

Tonight at Static we welcome the A.R.M. crew featuring djs Maiz, Shoam,
Benji, Sifu, Re Ach, and Quantum23.  Drum and bass, downtempo, and
experimental funk on 4 turntables!  Hope to see you there...

-Seth

|||| d j . s u t e k h 
|||| b e l i e f - s y s t e m s  
|||| http://www.belief-systems.com 
|||| http://www.nodeone.com/static 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:12:37 1998
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From: Andy Thomas <andy@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: ryuichi sakamoto @ the top tonight...
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:02:49 -0500 (EST)
From: 21st Century Soul <mikebee@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
Subject: (idm) this Tuesday in SF

This Tuesday, January 20, Sony Music, The Top and Le Belle Epoche are
proud to present a special session featuring Le Belle Epoche DJ's Mikebee
and Wish FM plus special guest RYUICHI SAKAMOTO (spinning new jungle and
original works) at the Top, 438 Lower Haight st. @ Fillmore, SF starting @
10pm. Admission hasn't been determined yet, but it should be pretty cheap.
Hope to see you there!

mikebee
<mB.twenty-first century soul.
<mikebee@freenet.tlh.fl.us.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:24:28 1998
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In a message dated 1/20/98 2:08:03 PM, you wrote:

<<The article is about
drug dealers, and how it relates to the
underground dance culture.

What do you think about drug dealers?>>

What?   Drug dealers?? 
Well, I guess they dance too  =D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:27:41 1998
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From: SLiNKy Dee <dynamic@interlog.com>
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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At 11:04 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>for those interested, the CD is availible at Housewares (1322 Haight) or
>most of the other DJ record shops around the city...
>
>...or soon even at that *other* Ameoba that opened up on Haight.

I saw it at Wicked in Berkeley on the weekend.



                .-.     .-.     .-.
 |||||/\/\/\/\ /    Slinky Dee /   \ /\/\/\|||||
              '     `-'     `-'  
formerly SLiNKy GaL	     CASHP #26-96-I, FOA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:34:08 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:38:03 -0800 (PST)
From: sNIKers <xtcin69@rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: XTCin69@aol.com
Subject: Bouncy Castles (was Re: Bucket O' Crack Rocks)
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---Paul Hayden  wrote:
> Oh and Patrice tells me some guy climbed on
> top of Home Base ran accross and then jumped onto the bouncy castle.
> Fell on his ass and then ran into the party!!! I think that is
> histerical. I give that guy mad props. He wants to be at a party money
> or not and it was really funny when she told me it on the phone.


Well Paul...problem is that asswipe shut them down...=(
sNIKers ;^)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:41:19 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Terri & Everyone pls read! Re:  !~raves and politics~!
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=tyyoung+40ucdavis+2Eedu+3B@apollogrp.edu's message of 01-20-98 15:55

Terri said:
EVIL Moki!! You'd better be lying about this!! I do not have 12 full tapes
of X-files episodes that I faithfully watch to end up KNOWING THE FINAL
ANSWER to the truth is out there!!. Please, please tell me this is a joke.
My heart is beating very fast,....getting
 di
        z
                z
                        y.

I choose to hypnotize my self to forget all of this ; )

Terri

I originally said:
  BTW, you will all find out that Mulder
>is actually an alien that the government has been trying to mold all along. 
>Scully is really his mother who doesn't age and she was chosen to keep an eye
>on him.  This is from an extremely reliable source.
>

~~~>Relax Terri, no really, please do.  I was merely making a subtle point
about the power of the net.  He said she said with a few "reliable sources"
phrases thrown in for good measure and voila, a fact is born.  It was just a
joke, albeit an accidental cruel one to some.  I apologize wholeheartedly to
you and hope you are feeling better now that you know the truth.  

I will tell you something that is true and y'all can contribute if you've heard
this too.  In Pulp Fiction, the scene where honey bunny and her boy are robbing
the diner and Jules opens the briefcase.  You see the bad guy's face light up
from a reflection as he states how beautiful IT is.  You never really know what
it is.

Well, it was the soul of Marcellus stolen back from the devil's minions (the
college kids that were shooting at Jules and Vince).  Vince died because he
failed to receive salvation, while Jules lived because he saw the lord as his
savior.  This is the gist of a conversation between a movie buff and Quentin in
a diner in L.A.  Watch the movie again.  To my knowledge, this is absolutely
true.  You have just read a piece of real truth.  Please go back to watching
X-Files in good health.  May I commend you on your diligence for taping all the
shows.


DISCO 2000,
>moki4u2c@hotmail.com
>"...gettin down just for the funk of it..."


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:45:19 1998
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I just read this.

Christ.

Hand me the tissues please.

Diana Greer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``
thenomad wrote:
> 
> I am going to post one final letter. Granted, I am not as well versed on
> the finer points of composing and disecting all these posts and frankly
> I don't have time to address each and every one of them.
> 
> I have posted individually to alot of people and I am not sure if they
> received the posts, but I would like to set the record straight and post
> publicly in the hopes that this can be put to rest.
> 
> I am truly disheartened that just the accusations alone can imply that a
> person is guilty of something they are not.  I don't care how you see
> it. I know the truth and the truth is that we (Nomad) have NOT written
> any bad checks. I don't have to elaborate. I know the truth and so do
> others. Vortexbrad was never even a vendor for our new years party yet
> he feels he can post about it.
> 
> It is unfortunate that I am not as quick on the internet as all of you
> proficient computer people are, and I have already been tried, judged
> and discarded until your next topic comes up.
> 
> I don't have the time or energy to reply to everyone who posted on this
> matter. I don't think a normal pperson would want to. You people have
> really shown how much hatred you have in your hearts and how
> disrespectful you are to the scene and the different types of people
> there are in it. Most of you haven't been around a long time yet you act
> as if you know everything and as if you have a right to judge people.
> 
> I know that I am a good person, I don't rip people off and I have made
> good contributions to the scene. In my heart I know the truth and I can
> say that I do learn every day of my life. Sometimes I learn more from a
> 16 year old than a 40 year old person.
> 
> This experience has been an extremely hurtful experience for me and I
> hope that you are all very happy to hear that. I am sure that this was
> your agenda to begin with.
> 
>  I thought for a moment that I could learn a few things from you and you
> could share your insight and what was important to you and we could
> improve certain things.
> 
> But now I know, that what is important to most of you who have posted,
> is a chance to put people down and try to discourage them and hurt their
> spirit and that is the biggest crime of all.
> 
> Stacey @ Nomad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:47:55 1998
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From: Space Ghost <hernancz@sirius.com>
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To: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>
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Subject: NRR. Drug Dealers was i have a question
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I must agree with Troy. I enjoy the occaisional Ibuprofen and Drixoral 
covers the symptoms of my colds but I think drug dealers like the 
manufacturers of AIDS drugs should be looked upon somewhat like slave 
traders.  

 I would ove to launch into an anti amnufacturer of aids drugs rant 
here. 



But I wont.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:52:58 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:09:51 -0500
To: off-topik@dewline.com
From: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
Subject: Ecstacy Club - the Movie
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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oh fun - Miramax is doing the movie version of Doug Rushkoff's Ecstacy Club
- and the screenwriter "has been in contact with some of the Bay Area's
best party promoters to get a better sense of just what happened back
around 1992, and how it's trickled up to the present."

i wonder who these promoters happen to be?  all you candy ravers can
probably expect to see yourselves on the big screen pretty soon - and watch
out, soon after you'll be able to buy your clothes at the nearest kmart.
pretty soon the entire country will be sucking lollipops and sporting
pigtails and fat pants...  and calling themselves "baby" something, with a
pacifier to match...

from:  http://www.levity.com/rushkoff

p.s.  i hope you guys are taking good care of freshie (brian) or i'll have
to fly out there and kick some california ass...

just kidding...

well, except for macadio.  he's gonna get his ass kicked anyway, just
because he's asking for it...


-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."

		--from The History of Magic

do-reeeeee
http://dori.space
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres

-------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 00:54:02 1998
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Subject: Attention LA & SF promoters: Steffan Robbers/Acid Junkies in the area
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Promoters et al.: Here's a message from Eevo Lute label supremo Stefan Robbers
(who also records music under the name Acid Junkies, among others).  He's
coming to San Francisco and Los Angeles in two weeks on vacation.  Someone
should jump on this offer like a fly on horseshit!  hehe.  Read on:

------- Forwarded Message

X-Sender: eevo@iaehv.nl
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:41:05 +0100
To: 313@hyperreal.org, idm@hyperreal.org, lowlands@xs4all.nl
From: Stefan Robbers <stefan@eevolute.com>
Subject: (idm) contacts/parties in LA and/or San francisco
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Hi everybody,

I'm just posting this message to lay contacts in the LA and SF area, where
I'm going in two weeks to 'enjoy the good life'.  I'm looking for meeting
up with anybody who's interested in any of the following:

- Knowing good parties / record stores / hangouts

- Possibilities for us to play/DJ: having played in America (as Acid
  Junkies) on a couple of occasions, I would really like to do that again.
  So booking agencies: interested in having Acid Junkies play or DJ at your
  party?  Now is your chance since we are coming anyway!

- Opening talks about licensing our music for your territory: Our mixed
  compilation has just been finished, and in March our new album is being
  released in Europe.

If you think you can help us out our know anybody who could, please reply
or pass this messsage along.  Thank you! 

Please reply to stefan@acidjunkies.com

Stefan Robbers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| EEVO LUTE MUSIC AND TECHNOLOGY, PO BOX 2169, 5600 CD EINDHOVEN,        |
| THE NETHERLANDS  Phn: +31-40-2961270, Fax: +31-40-2961269              |
| Stefan Robbers, e-mail: stefan@eevolute.com, stefan@acidjunkies.com    |
| http://www.eevolute.com  "The Eevo Lute music and technology Web site" |
| http://www.acidjunkies.com  "The official Acid Junkies web site"       |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------- End of Forwarded Message

(Note: Reply-To: set to "stefan@acidjunkies.com" at Stefan's request.)

	- Greg


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 01:00:22 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:08:49 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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I'm ready for my close up Mr. Devile!!
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Dori wrote:
> 
> oh fun - Miramax is doing the movie version of Doug Rushkoff's Ecstacy Club
> - and the screenwriter "has been in contact with some of the Bay Area's
> best party promoters to get a better sense of just what happened back
> around 1992, and how it's trickled up to the present."
> 
> i wonder who these promoters happen to be?  all you candy ravers can
> probably expect to see yourselves on the big screen pretty soon - and watch
> out, soon after you'll be able to buy your clothes at the nearest kmart.
> pretty soon the entire country will be sucking lollipops and sporting
> pigtails and fat pants...  and calling themselves "baby" something, with a
> pacifier to match...
> 
> from:  http://www.levity.com/rushkoff
> 
> p.s.  i hope you guys are taking good care of freshie (brian) or i'll have
> to fly out there and kick some california ass...
> 
> just kidding...
> 
> well, except for macadio.  he's gonna get his ass kicked anyway, just
> because he's asking for it...
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> "If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
> you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
> an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."
> 
>                 --from The History of Magic
> 
> do-reeeeee
> http://dori.space
> http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 01:04:50 1998
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Reply-To: <info@funkytekno.com>
From: "Funky Tekno Tribe Sound System" <Info@FunkyTekno.com>
To: <sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org>, "Andy Thomas" <andy@hyperreal.org>,
  <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: ryuichi sakamoto @ the top tonight...
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:03:16 -0800
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THIS IS A MUST SEE!!!!

Just incase you don't know who Ryuichi Sakamoto is... basically he was
1) the man behind YMO, Yellow Magic Orchestra... techno-heads would know how
influential the band was in the early 80s
2) Collaborated with Japan and David Sylvian in the early 80s. Japan was and
still is an one of my all time favourite bands.
3) won the academy award for the soundtrack for "The Last Emperor". He was
also the Japanese Secret Service officer in the movie.
4) acted brilliantly opposite David Bowie in "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence"
5) is a producer extrodinairre!!!

Mohan
FTT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org [mailto:sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org]On
> Behalf Of Andy Thomas
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 4:13 PM
> To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: ryuichi sakamoto @ the top tonight...
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:02:49 -0500 (EST)
> From: 21st Century Soul <mikebee@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
> Subject: (idm) this Tuesday in SF
>
> This Tuesday, January 20, Sony Music, The Top and Le Belle Epoche are
> proud to present a special session featuring Le Belle Epoche DJ's Mikebee
> and Wish FM plus special guest RYUICHI SAKAMOTO (spinning new jungle and
> original works) at the Top, 438 Lower Haight st. @ Fillmore, SF starting @
> 10pm. Admission hasn't been determined yet, but it should be pretty cheap.
> Hope to see you there!
>
> mikebee
> <mB.twenty-first century soul.
> <mikebee@freenet.tlh.fl.us.
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 01:13:36 1998
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I'll be the one with bells on!  Woo hoo!

Steve.

(at work, so I'm jumping up and down on the inside, where it counts.)

Andy Thomas wrote:
> 
> This Tuesday, January 20, Sony Music, The Top and Le Belle Epoche are
> proud to present a special session featuring Le Belle Epoche DJ's Mikebee
> and Wish FM plus special guest RYUICHI SAKAMOTO (spinning new jungle and
> original works) at the Top, 438 Lower Haight st. @ Fillmore, SF starting @
> 10pm. Admission hasn't been determined yet, but it should be pretty cheap.
> Hope to see you there!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 01:15:45 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <40e9cf91.34c54505@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:44:45 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Happy birthday aquarius
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That's me!! Oddball =)

      hugsn'stuff,
        'trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 01:28:53 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, groovinkim@connectexpress.com
Subject: Re: Question about Planet Rock
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:28:21 PST
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I was in tha Hip-Hop room most of the time :)
there or the jungle, but they were soo close :)
I didn't really see many holmie "G's"
just people having a fun or whatever . chillin listening to some 
hip-hop..grafing.. breaking.. kinda like a b-boy fest :)
but all the music is all good whenever and in whichever flavour :)
ok..peace
Philip
disordr
>
>Doesn't anyone on this list like hip hop? I don't understand why people
>keep talking about all these "homie g's" or whatever.
>
>Grandmaster Flash is incredible in my opinion. I have never seen him
>live, but if I got the chance, i would jump on it! Same with Sugarhill 
Gang.
>
>But the way the listees are talking, none of you liked the hip hop 
room?
>Did any of you go in there at all?
>
>Just wondering...as you can tell from my sig, I'm a big sugarhill fan, 
and
>I would probably have been in that room all night....but I sure 
would've
>been annoyed to be referred to as a "gangsta"!
>
>-a puzzled kim
>.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>"i married the funk, so i could never be alone...i got
>the music, the turntables and the microphone!"
>(from "here comes the bride" on sugar hill)
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 02:23:30 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7ec4a9c4.34c55bdd@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:22:18 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: PHUNCKATECK @ THE TOP!!!
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PHUNCKATECK
THE LAST WORD IN FUTURE SOUNDS OF DRUM & BASS

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
This Saturday, January 24th we will be celebrating the B-days of DJs SAGE &
NOEL (and all other Aquarians..)

Come on down and enjoy good D & B...
Various Jungle Djs (NOEL, SAGE, UFO, JASON MOUSE, ABSTRACT.......)

THE TOP
424 HAIGHT ST S.F.
10-2
21+
$3 donation benefiting the poor Aquarians fund.   8}

INFO LINE 415.331.1500 ext. 160

   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Also dont forget to check out EKLECTIC this Thursday, Jan. 22nd......
One word: DIESELBOY!!
INFO LINE: 415.332.5800. ext 24-7


PEACE
PHUNCKATECK COMMUNICATIONS
PHUNKN3@aol.com
      ======>http://members.wbs.net/homepages/p/h/u/phunkn.html<=======

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 03:54:37 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Oakland Prmits (was Re: SF Weekly article)
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Wayne saith;
>
>I read it this way:
>
>> Many people on this list *know* that *many* promoters are greedy 
money
>>grubbing bustards...


 I say;

	Sad but true.

Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 04:24:07 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:55:08 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: review of planet rock - kinda long
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Welp, I gotsta say it sucked hard having to wait in line for and hour and a
half, seein as the party was SUPPOSED to start at 8.  But being there with my
best friend who only peeks her head out the shadows and joins me for a party
every rarely once in a while was great.  
  I gotta see some kids I hadn't seen in days.  I walked down the long hall to
that candy room with all the flowers on the walls and smurf stuff that made me
gag. so I waled out kinda quick.  Then I bounced over to the hip hop room.
And damn, I woulda kicked it in there for days had it not been so fucken
crowded and hot and hardf to dance in.  But the music was damn dope.  Then I
wandered into the main room.  And wandered right back out.  I realize I can
only dance to jungle and hiphop.  Trance, house, and techno just, well, I
can't move my ass to it for some reason.  
  Finally the music started in the jungle room.  A few minutes of unimpressive
jungle rang through my ears and then I heard this beat, this ever so FUNKY
BEAT!!!  And this beat was (drumroll) HAPPY HARDCORE!!  Not many kids were
dancin to it, and I am not too sure if it was because it was being played so
early or because sfkids don't really care so much for happy hardcore.  But I
was in love.  I remember running across the room and jumping on my best friend
becasue, I dunno, it just felt right.  
   And then the night carried on with some dope jungle.  I enjoyed it all,
from RAW to Danny da wild child straight up to 119 crew.  Then I guess
stareyes was okay (she threw down some serious bitch attitude towards me the
first time I met her so I don't care for the girl a whole lot, not a
reflection on the dj, just the person behind the tables)  Between times in the
jungle, I was in the hiphop room.  I wanted to see the scratch pickles, but
evertime I went in there it was a different group from who I thought it was so
I just got reallt confused and said fukkit and just danced where appropriet.
But my favorite part of the jungle room was when WHITE LINES came on.  That
had been one of  my favorite songs for days and days (I member when it came
oout on mtv) I just happened to have walked in at that perfect time!
  Either that or I was outside for breif times talkin, chillin, with my
brothas and sistas.  I had a lot of fun this night, even though I had the
constant nag of feeling I had to avoid someone, who ended up sticking his
tongue out at me when I finally did make eye contact after the party had
ended.  
  Mmmm, and I gotta say, even though I don't go to parties to meet the
opposite sex, there was some EYE candy there that I could not tear my eyes
away from.  I love looking at cute boys who can dance :)  But then again, it's
almost spring, right? Forgive my hormones.
   It's been fun.  I had fun.  And I hope you had fun!  It's all about the
line up and the music, even though I did get some neg. vibe (more from x-
friends due to x's) but I didn't let it phaze me!!
Ms. K1dd
~Let the bass invade your space  

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 04:42:16 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: haze@netgate.net, jer@best.com
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Lightseed - NOT MASSIVE AT ALL! (BSP included)
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:41:43 PST
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Hi all!  ]=}

 First off, my hotmail account has been *really* problematic lately and 
I apologise for not responding to some important communiques. I'll 
respond very soon.  ;)

 Dionysus Dreams (as noted on the lightSeed flyer) will be in da house 
doing some wacky decorations FOR THE JUNGALISTS!! Hope to see some of 
youse folks out there.  :)

hugz,

>
>massive... I THINK NOT!!! =) Lightseed parties are some of the _BEST_
>undergrounds. Their parties are a 'lil different than your typical
>underground.... dunno how... but it definately is different! and OH OH
>OH SO GOOD! =) go.. I swear you will NOT regret it! =) Lightseed RULES!
>=) seriously!. They're parties are on in my top 3 parties to always go
>to!


Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 04:50:11 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:36:37 -0500
From: John Davies <sputnik@voyageronline.net>
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I am currently constructing a sound archive for my promotion group and
am seeking high quality mixtapes for purchase.  If you have quality for
sale, please send me your list to sputnik@vol.net or fax it to me at
423.756.7298.  Thanks a lot!!

				sputnik@sputnik productions

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 04:57:41 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:52:30 -0800
From: "dr. XeNo" <drxeno@ucdavis.edu>
Reply-To: dr_XeNo@pacbell.net
Organization: UCD Student
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To: SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
CC: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Free BSP:  *TEK-InDuCED EuPHoriA*
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    'Lo there, ppl's!  And, Noah, yes, it waz Gaza, so i'll look around fer
that song, but I own T-99, and that tune Anastaestia is dope, I agree.  Anwyay,
me show is once again 2-4am tonite, wed morn basically, and its on KDVS
90.3fm.  Thaz fer the greater Sac valley, but u can also catch it on RA @
http://www.mother.com/htbin/cgiwrap/~kdvs/timche .  It'll be some more funky
breakz, tekstep, HH, and cybertrance flavors fo' the ear...take care....oh!
I'll be online and maning the request line tonite, so give me a buzz....

--
<<<A PLURry boy...>>>                    dr. XeNo
"Sing while you may!"                                      >:-)
          -- Edward Qa-Spel        "Set me free,
                                                Remotivate me!"
       >:-(                                         -- Martin L. Gore
              <<<<<< dr_XeNo@pacbell.net >>>>>>
*TEK-InDuCED EuPHoriA*



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 05:42:24 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:42:19 -0800 (PST)
From: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: mini BSP
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For all you Berkeley people desperately seeking crumby mixtapes, I'll be
dropping stuff on the air tonight (slow groovin stuff, ambient, maybe
other... I dunno).

Free Radio Berkeley 104.1 FM
>From 11:30pm till 2:30am
>>> Conscious Groove <<<

That's two 90 minute tapes for those seeking wierd mixtapes.  No
commercials. Hope you like it... I'm bringing whatever records are closest
to my bedroom door in an effort to be spontaneous.

Peace,
AndyW



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 05:46:02 1998
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From: "Py- Ro" <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR:hello all, I'm resubscribed...
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Hello all you beautiful people on sfraves, and the rest of you. :P It's 
me Pyro, and I'm resubscribed. For all you that know me, Hello, and hugs 
and stuff, and to all that don't, hope to meet you soon, etc. Take care 
all. Be happy and sm:)e!



:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
    PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
    PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
    PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
    PP         YY       RR    RR    OO  

Pyro

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 06:22:25 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:32:18 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: Py- Ro <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
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What up gangsta g? It's Paul*E*Wog.
How are ya.

Py- Ro wrote:
> 
> Hello all you beautiful people on sfraves, and the rest of you. :P It's
> me Pyro, and I'm resubscribed. For all you that know me, Hello, and hugs
> and stuff, and to all that don't, hope to meet you soon, etc. Take care
> all. Be happy and sm:)e!
> 
> :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
> 
>     PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
>     PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
>     PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
>     PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
>     PP         YY       RR    RR    OO
> 
> Pyro
> 
> :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 07:13:41 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:17:56 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Subject: things i learned on teh web today SNRR
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1. If you're bidding on a job for UPS, don't send your bid by FedEx.

2. If your computer says, "Printer out of Paper," this problem cannot
   be resolved by continuously clicking the "OK" button.

3. If you want your refrigerator's ice maker to work, you need to hook
   it to a water source.  Air doesn't make good ice unless it is mixed
   with water.

4. No matter how much data you add to your laptop, it will not get
   heavier.

5. A bad place to store your emergency backup diskette is on the
   underside of your desk drawer, secured by a large magnet.

6. It's okay to use the Polaroid Land Camera on a boat.

7. When the PC says, "Insert diskette #2," don't do it immediately.
   Remove disk #1 first, even if you're sure you can make them both fit
   in there.

8. When your PC says "You have mail," don't go to the company mail
   room and look for a package.

9. The French version of Netscape Navigator doesn't translate English
   language web pages into French.

10. If you're in the armed services, and it's April 1st, and you get
    an e-mail message to call Colonel Sanders for new orders, don't.

11. If you go to the computer store to buy a mousepad, you don't have
    to specify whether it's for a Windows or a Macintosh.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 08:10:38 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:10:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Laurence Y Maar <raver@mcl.ucsb.edu>
To: Undisclosed recipients: ;
Subject: Regarding PLUR
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  This isn't directly rave-related, but I thought that you might find this
  kind of touching. I saw it as an alogorical for the rave scene in
  general and it made me kinda misty so I wanted to share it with you if
  you were feeling down about life and stuff...

  Love,
  Laurence [SCR]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

      Two men, both seriously ill, occupied the same hospital room.  One 
man  was allowed to sit up in his bed for an hour a day to drain the 
fluids  from his lungs.  His bed was next to the room's only window.  The
 other  man had to spend all his time flat on his back.
       The men talked for hours on end.  They spoke of their wives and
families, their homes, their jobs, their involvement in the  military
service, where they had been on vacation. And every afternoon when  the 
man in the bed next to the window could sit up, he would pass the  time 
by describing to his roommate all the things he could see outside  the 
window.
          The man in the other bed would live for those one-hour periods
where  his world would be broadened and enlivened by all the activity and
color
 of the outside world. The window overlooked a park with a lovely  lake, 
the man had said. Ducks and swans played on the water while  children
sailed their model boats. Lovers walked arm in arm amid flowers of  every
 color of the rainbow. Grand old trees graced the landscape, and a  fine 
view of the city skyline could be seen in the distance.  As the man by 
the window described all this in exquisite detail, the man on the  other 
side of the room would close his eyes and imagine the picturesque scene.
           One warm afternoon the man by the window described a parade 
passing  by.  Although the other man could not hear the band, he could
see  it in  his mind's eye as the gentleman by the window portrayed it
with  descriptive words.  Unexpectedly, an alien thought entered his 
head:  Why  should he have all the pleasure of seeing every-thing while I
 never  get to see anything?
 	 It didn't seem fair.  As the thought fermented, the man felt 
ashamed  at first.  But as the days passed and he missed seeing more
sights,  his  envy eroded into resentment and soon turned him sour.  He
began to  brood  and found himself unable to sleep.  He should be by that
window - and that thought now controlled his life.
	Late one night, as he lay staring at the ceiling, the man by the 
window began to cough.  He was choking on the fluid in his lungs.  The 
other man watched in the dimly lit room as the struggling man by the 
window groped for the button to call for help.  Listening from  across 
the room, he never moved, never pushed his own button which would  have 
brought the nurse running.  In less than five minutes, the
 coughing  and choking stopped, along with the sound of breathing. Now,
there was
 only  silence--deathly silence.
           The following morning the day nurse arrived to bring water for
 their  baths. When she found the lifeless body of the man by the window,
she  was saddened and called the hospital attendant to take it away--no 
works, no fuss.  As soon as it seemed appropriate, the man asked if he
could be moved next to the window.  The nurse was happy to make the
switch and  after  making sure he was comfortable, she left him alone.
Slowly, painfully,  he propped himself up one elbow to take his first
look.  Finally, he would have the joy of seeing it all himself.  He
strained to slowly  turn
 to look out the window beside the bed.
               It faced a blank wall.

--Author Unknown



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 09:11:37 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:21:35 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Can anyone here describe the effects of combing MDMA with PCP.
Also known as an Elephant Flip or Domex.
I was told that it is said to rid PCP of the bad effects and make the
MDMA body high incredible. Please post any reports of this. Of course,
you heard this report from a friend of a friend. Does anyone know
anything about this?
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 09:24:20 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:26:15 -0800
From: Space Ghost <hernancz@sirius.com>
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To: Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com>
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Subject: Re: NRR Burningman new site info]
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That is not very PLUR-Y of you to say that Mr. Boomie.

I enjoyed going to your Mixtape release party at Starbucks Coffee the 
other day! Did anybody else show up?

If anyone wants a free beer at BM come by the G.H.B.(C) tent. 

> and Hernan, your "Greasy Handjob for Beer Co-op" tent just might be a
> success this year---finally!
> 
> ;o)
> b))m

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 09:41:47 1998
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To: SFRavEs Mailing List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
Subject: Virtual Lollipops
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1 for each of you!  =[]

i love you all,,,

dEEp (see you @ love afair (love-o-matic) this feb!)

<<<smooch>>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 09:47:17 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
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thanks deefrog...
can i request a cherry blowpop :)
see everyone at love-affair :)
peace
Philip

>
>1 for each of you!  =[]
>
>i love you all,,,
>
>dEEp (see you @ love afair (love-o-matic) this feb!)
>
><<<smooch>>>
>
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 15:04:08 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:07:04 -0800
To: drakonis@mindless.com
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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At 7:43 PM -0800 1/19/98, Drakonis Darkheart wrote:
<snip>
>Can you elaborate more ? What type is this ??? Trance, hardcore, HOUSE
>CRAP, ??? what ?

It's music.

Now go and take a listen and buy it.


>
>--
>Drakonis Darkheart - GABBERS OF THE WORLD UNITE !!!
>
>DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS http://home.earthlink.net/~drakonis/index.htm

jsl

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 15:13:25 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:16:16 -0800
To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Everyone pls read! Re:  !~raves and politics~!
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 2:05 PM -0700 1/20/98, Steven_Allas wrote:
>In-Reply-To:
>UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3A
>SMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-17-98
>15:40
>
>Minh Le and John Lee, damn I'm having a discussion with a freakin' gook and a
>chink!  That's it, I feel disgusted that I would waste my thoughts on such
>inferior substitutes for humans! (see below)
>
>
>
>Ofcourse I am not serious in the statements above.  NOW you know that I am
>not,
>I am curious as to your reaction.  Was it, "I wonder why he said that?",
>or was
>it, "That fucking asshole, wait until I flame his ass and tell him what I
>think!"  Just an exercise on your personal reaction to words.  I had to
>evaluate my actions in the past and change the way I thought.

My reaction:  Gotcha! ;)

I am African-American, and like alot of people from the south Lee (from
Leigh, not Gen. Lee btw) is my family name.  There are no g--ks or c---ks
in my bloodline.  That is the problem with assumptions and living here in
the often culturally myopic West.

I can tell you what, I play that predjudice like a violin, because it lands
me interview after interview, job after job on the first try.  My resume is
impressive, and with that last name coupled with the Wests prediliction
with its own myopic view, I can't help but win.

The funniest thing is watching people face as they find out I'm the Lee
theor interviewing. I'll always remember the interview @ Apple where the
interviewer walked right past me and went to the main office looking for
Mr. Lee.  He was so embarassed.  But he didn;t look like a Ryan either.
Quite a Vietnamese brother, 1st generation American.

>
>I will say that, IMHO, Minh seems to be defensive.  John, I appreciate your
>thoughts and think that you truly understand that what anger you have at
>the U.S. of historical events regarding your heritage needs to be
>redirected to
>positive actions.
>
>Furthermore, I think that I am tired of the apparent intellectual flexing of
>Minh.  Therefore, I will only contribute to this topic when I feel that
>Minh is
>not talking down to us, or anyone else for that matter.  While John and myself
>have conceded when Minh has made some good points, we do not know if our
>points
>are being considered in the least.  Hey Genghis Minh, it's a discussion miss
>thing, not a witch hunt for your personal (or anyone else's) version of the
>truth.  Although your fervency in your beliefs (ala Middle East terrorists) is
>admirable, clearly you cannot beat it in to people by force.  It's a stretch,
>but I don't give a damns, I'll go with it.
>
>I must say emphatically, that my demeanor when writing to this list is always
>one of gratefulness that this medium exists.  Additionally, my disposition is
>generally sunny, being in Hawaii helps.  So don't take everything at life and
>death.  Not everything is a conspiracy.  BTW, you will all find out that
>Mulder
>is actually an alien that the government has been trying to mold all along.
>Scully is really his mother who doesn't age and she was chosen to keep an eye
>on him.  This is from an extremely reliable source.
>
>DISCO 2000,
>moki4u2c@hotmail.com
>"...gettin down just for the funk of it..."
>

I agree.  Great commentary.

Out,
John

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 15:22:22 1998
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i give you a free lollipop and a fat frog.  fog?  frog?  eh.  what's the dif.

At 9:46 AM -0000 01/21/1998, Break Dancer wrote:
>thanks deefrog...
>can i request a cherry blowpop :)
>see everyone at love-affair :)
>peace
>Philip
>
>>
>>1 for each of you!  =[]
>>
>>i love you all,,,
>>
>>dEEp (see you @ love afair (love-o-matic) this feb!)
>>
>><<<smooch>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 16:21:49 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 08:21:08 -0800
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Subject: Light*Seed
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     hey all.....
     
     does anyone have the # for light seed???
     
     Lace


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 16:29:08 1998
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From: "Py- Ro" <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, jsl@twenty-hz.com
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Everyone pls read! Re: !~raves and politics~!
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man, I just resubscribed, and was blind sided with the truth about 
Mulder and Scully! Fuck, I didn't ask for it, it was dealt to me in 
cognito! I'm really upset. genuinely interested in the context promised, 
and slammed in the face with a fist full of quarters. This upsets me. 
Never in a million years would I have suspected such treason, such 
mallice. I know not what to say, and say no more...


:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
    PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
    PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
    PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
    PP         YY       RR    RR    OO  

Pyro

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

P.S. guess I'll never watch x-files again...


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 16:31:31 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>,
  "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Love A-Fair/Underground Carnival
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:30:44 -0800
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Just goto Love-Affair..

It rocks.
 I will probably not make it myself but. For everyone besides myself, the
party would be worth the trip..

Jeff


PS. Signing off the list. To much dumb shit for me to delete everyday. Later


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 16:46:14 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:38:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: FDA WARNING (NRR)
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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THE FDA HAS PROPOSED THAT WARNING SIGNS BE PLACED ON
BOOZE BOTTLES TO TIP OFF DRINKERS ABOUT THE POSSIBLE
PERIL OF POUNDING A PINT OR TWO:
          
1.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol may cause you to
wake up with breath that could knock a buzzard off a
shit truck at 100 yards.
  
2.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol is a major factor
in dancing like an asshole.

3.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol may cause you to
tell the same boring story over and over again until
your friends want to SMASH YOUR HEAD IN.

4.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol may cause you to
thay shings like thish.
  
5.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol may cause you to
tell the boss what you REALLY think while
photocopying your butt at the office Christmas party.
   
6.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol may lead you to
believe that ex-lovers are really dying for you to
telephone them at 4 in the morning.

7.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol may leave you
wondering what the hell ever happened to your pants
anyway.
   
8.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol may cause you to
roll over in the morning and see something really
scary 
       (whose species and or name you can't remember)

9.  WARNING: consumption of alcohol is the leading
cause of inexplicable rug burn on the forehead.
   

10. WARNING: consumption of alcohol may create the
illusion that you are tougher, handsomer and smarter
than some really, really big guy named Psycho.
          
          
          









From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 17:17:22 1998
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From: Kalidosope <Kalidosope@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fe2d6ca6.34c62d26@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:15:15 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Its Amanda and Dustin!
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Hey Kids,

		We just wanted to let you know that we are still alive and well! We havent
been out to SF in about 7 going on 8 months but..... we will be out for Love
Affair and I think Iam gonna bring my little sis too! We just had some life
issuse to deal with and a long neede break. I think we are about ready to go!
We really miss all of you and hope your doing well! Love Affair will be our
year anniversey of meeting some of our closest friends (hey Lara I love you)
so there was no holding us back on this one! Well we just wanted to say hi and
let all of you know were thinking of you and miss you dearly! Hope we will see
you at Love Affair!

Miss you all,
Amanda and Dustin

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 17:34:03 1998
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From: Eggplant <eeep@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Damn Smokers....and Static.......
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Damn those Static DJ's were smoking last night. Re ach's set tagging
with someone I assume was from ARM was long and had great energy.

ARM folks were in full effect - Bonnie was tight -  impressive as usual.

The vibe matched the music last night....yay static.

who was the first guy with long hair?

wonderboy enjoys the sky.............


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 17:49:04 1998
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 17:56:52 1998
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WOW!  Riuichi Sakamoto last nigh was outstanding!  Nice and
abstract/ambient/jungle/gabber/techno jams!   Most of the crowd was
too busy gabbing to pay much attention, though, but that was their
loss.  I still can't believe he played the Top!!!  So, so cool!  And
Mikebee's set jamed away the rest of the night, too!

Another stompin night at the Top!

It can't rain all the time,
Steve.

Don't worry
We have seen
Things will get better naturally
Don't worry
Shut up sit down
roll with it and be happy
Dum dum dum da dum dum da diddy diddy dum dum dum uh ahh ahhhhh
Dum dum dum da dum dum da duddy diddy dum dum dum uh ahh ahhhhh
		--Stereolab

Andy Thomas wrote:
> This Tuesday, January 20, Sony Music, The Top and Le Belle Epoche are
> proud to present a special session featuring Le Belle Epoche DJ's Mikebee
> and Wish FM plus special guest RYUICHI SAKAMOTO (spinning new jungle and
> original works) at the Top, 438 Lower Haight st. @ Fillmore, SF starting @
> 10pm. Admission hasn't been determined yet, but it should be pretty cheap.
> Hope to see you there!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 17:58:52 1998
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dA0K

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                  H.A.R.E. '98
                  HANSON ADMIRATION RESISTANCE EDUCATION 1998
     
                  MISSION: TO RESIST HANSON AND THEIR (so-called) MUSIC
     
                  PARTNERSHIP FOR A HANSON-FREE AMERICA
     
                  Just say NO to "MMMBop"
     
                  HANSON:
                  They came from the "MIDDLE OF NOWHERE." 
                  Now they must be stopped.
     
     
               THE ENEMIES:
                                                             
                           
                o          0         O  
               -|-        -|-       -|-
               / \        / \       / \
              Isaac      Taylor   Zachary
     
     
               We need YOUR help.    DARE TO PARTICIPATE IN H.A.R.E.
                  Pass this on to all fellow HANSON-haters.
     
     

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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 18:04:05 1998
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Subject: RE: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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I think it was PCP that made Rodney King so popular

messy stuff from what I've heard

sister kitty

 ----------

Can anyone here describe the effects of combing MDMA with PCP.
Also known as an Elephant Flip or Domex.
I was told that it is said to rid PCP of the bad effects and make the
MDMA body high incredible. Please post any reports of this. Of course,
you heard this report from a friend of a friend. Does anyone know
anything about this?
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 18:07:33 1998
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From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: rave archives/sfr calendar archives
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anyone know how i could find an archives of raves that have happened in the
bay area?  i need dates and other important info on particular parties.
something like a "Dead Base" catalogue for ravers?
is there a way to tap into the SFR Calendar archives?

thank you dearly,

b))m



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 18:27:36 1998
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From: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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wrong animal...

i think it's actually call that a --> (jack)ASS FLIP.



At 01:21 AM 1/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Can anyone here describe the effects of combing MDMA with PCP.
>Also known as an Elephant Flip or Domex.
>I was told that it is said to rid PCP of the bad effects and make the
>MDMA body high incredible. Please post any reports of this. Of course,
>you heard this report from a friend of a friend. Does anyone know
>anything about this?
>Love,
>Paul*E*Wog
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 18:28:15 1998
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Subject: Re: NRR Burningman new site info]
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if it wasn't so funny last year I would cry

in the middle of a really hot desert with a keg of cold beer - but it's
the shitiest beer ever!!!

sister kitty - not buzzed but amused

 ----------
That is not very PLUR-Y of you to say that Mr. Boomie.

I enjoyed going to your Mixtape release party at Starbucks Coffee the
other day! Did anybody else show up?

If anyone wants a free beer at BM come by the G.H.B.(C) tent.

> and Hernan, your "Greasy Handjob for Beer Co-op" tent just might be a
> success this year---finally!
>
> ;o)
> b))m

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 18:37:53 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:35:09 -0800
Subject: Ride to the city on saturday please?
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Hello and peace be with you.

I feel a bit cheeky delurking just to ask for a ride but  I have about 5
weekends left in the country so I don't want to waste any of them!

I'm stuck in San Jose untill about 10.30/11.00 this coming Saturday so I
need a ride to the city cuz the trains stop at 10.30. If anyone is going
in that general direction I'd be more than grateful and will pay for gas.
Thanks a lot

English Ed




Be alert............Your country needs Lerts.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 18:53:14 1998
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I used to know this cat name Eddie Discobisquit.  He was an e-slanging
fool, and the sweetest, grooviest cat you ever did know.  In his
bell-bottom britches and 12 inch plats, he was unloading the kind of bomb
that the Bay Area had never seen before.    He knew his was the best, but
it never changed him.  He'd be standing there at a party, getting all silky
on a little lollipop lady when the kids  started lining up in front of him.
And Eddie, with the charm of a prince, wouldn't even take his eyes off the
lovely lady,  he'd just hold an e between his fingers for you to see.  And
he never even looked at the bills you gave him.

One night at a party, the bass bins got to thumpin too much, and Old Lady
Milktoast across the street got on the horn and started fussing to the
fuzz.  So pretty soon Officer Leonard arrived with some boys in a paddy
wagon and closed the party down.  Well naturally, no one wanted to be the
first to leave after having dropped Eddie's special Twenty Megaton
Rubberleg Bomb.

But then Eddie Discobisquit made the first move!  He sauntered out into the
parking lot as the kids watched in drop-jawed wonder.  They felt nothing
short of love for this elegant cat who would risk it all.  So Eddie
stumbled around the parking lot and tried to key open a car door.   Nope,
wrong car.  Try again.   Well, damn,  that's not it either.  The kids
pressed their noses against the windows and gasped as Eddie fumbled around
and tried to unlock Officer Leonard's patrol car.   Old Officer Leonard
frowned and waited.   So finally Eddie found his car, and climbed inside.
Well, damn, there he was in the passenger seat.  Finally he got himself all
situated, fired up the engine, and lurched out of the parking lot like a
rhino on angel dust.  And Officer Leonard was on top of poor Eddie like
stink on poop, bubblegum tops lighting up the street like an impromptu
underground.

Meanwhile, all the kids quietly got in their cars and drove away, tears in
their eyes as they passed by their flambuoyant hero.  Officer Leonard gave
Eddie the breathalyzer test.  0.0.   He told Eddie to walk a straight line,
which Eddie did with the finesse of a ballerina, and then moonwalked in his
12- inch platforms back to the starting point.  The nose-touches were
perfect, and then Eddie said the alphabet backward in English AND in
Arabic.

By now, Officer Leonard was madder than a fratboy without a bottle opener.
He spat tobacco juice and stomped his feet.  "Dat-gum fiddlin sumbitchin---
what in Sam Hill is going on here?"

"Tonight," Eddie said, tossing his silk scarf over his shoulder with a
grace reserved for royalty,  "I am the designated decoy."


-b))merang



     H
    ERE               http://www.slip.net/~hatfyr
   ARETH
  EFACTSYO
 UREQUESTED       -enlarged for easy listening-

\\\///\\\///\\\///\\//\\//\/\/\\/\\//\\//\\\///\\\///\\\///
        "...the end of all our exploring
        will be to arrive where we started
        and know the place for the first time."
                             - t.s. eliot



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 19:22:18 1998
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From: Ravergrl27 <Ravergrl27@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46efdeae.34c646e0@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:05:02 EST
To: stuff@hooked.net, groovinkim@connectexpress.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  rayvonie@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Love A-Fair/Underground Carnival
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Subj:	Re: Love A-Fair/Underground Carnival
Date:	98-01-20 17:49:30 EST
From:	Ravergrl27
To:	rayvonie@ix.netcom.com

Hi Vlad.....
  I just wanted to say that everything I wrote is TRUE..... I have been around
for a long time and seen alot of pepole come and go as far as promoter, ravers
and producers..... YOU are a one of the true SPIRITS of RAves ...  I must have
sent this letter to the hole list by mistake.. opps!!!! Now that I have.....
Here is to a man with great meaning of the word P.L.U.R. I wanted to let Kim
know just aliittle about your parties and what I have seen over the last
8years of all your hard  work... I know it is not easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your
LOVE and DEVOTION  has been shown in so many ways to so many pepole. I think
it was time for me to say something about what you are ALL about. What I have
seen is  PURE>>>>>> P.L.U.R.   You do stand out from all the rest... Big props
to you Vlad........ =) And many more years of fat REAL parties... As you would
say """Keep it real"""AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE JUST DONE... If you and Jeannie
ever need more help Just ask... You both are great....     Sorry about posting
some of my personal thoughts to the hole list but now you all know....
watching someone grow  over the years with one thing in mind (making pepps
happy) is such a wonderful life experience. I have experieneced it with
FEELGOOD and will contuine to do so....... MUCH LOVE
                                                                  ****
RAVEN****
QQ you at LOVE A-FAIR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 19:26:49 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:23:48 -0500
To: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
From: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
Cc: "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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it ain't bad for a story, no - and if you get the real point of it (that
it's not a big glory story about the joys of raving, it's about the line
where reality ends and whatever else begins, and where that line IS) then
it's cool...

most of all, it's a fun read tho...  except that, uh, well, it made me want
to go out and ingest in a serious way afterwards... in fact, i think that
book is what kicked off my um, well, SUBSTANTIAL phase this summer - shit,
if i could have either all the stuff i ate after reading that book or all
the money i SPENT on that stuff i ate back, i'd be a happy camper...

i think it's gonna be a fun movie, to be honest - anxious to see who'll be
playing the roles, and i'm not that concerned about it being a movie,
because we can all safely admit that the definition of "underground" has
changed a helluva lot since "back in the day" - it's not like you still
can't throw a party and not invite the idiots who'll soon be raving due to
a movie (funny how "underground" sort of translates to "elitist" if you
think about it, selective invitation of groovy people) - unfortunately, the
plot of the story or its characters isn't going to lead to superpositive
representation, but hey, it's going to be interesting - and how the hell
they'll do it without having scientology sue anyone is beyond me...
they've already threatened, i think, over the thinly masked references in
the book.  fuck it - go get the book - if you rely on public transportation
to get to work and whatnot, it's a good thing to take with you.  besides,
doug rushkoff DOES have plenty of experience under his belt.

At 11:16 AM +0000 1/21/98, * sherry * wrote:
>The wierdest thing happened to me.  I was @ Virgin Megastore
>waiting in line to use the batheroom when I saw this book
>with a pretty loud, bright, tech design.  So I glance @ the
>title and it says "Ecstacy Club".  And think to myself "NO
>WAY" and I pick it up and read the back and hey wait a minute
>it is about raving....in good old Oakland?!  What a weird
>coincidence.
>
>I never known anyone else who had heard of the book and I've
>been meaning to buy it.  Have you read it?  Is it good?  Is
>it true/real?
>
>Anyhow,  so a movie huh.  Shit that kinda sucks, but hey
>I guess it's all gonna happen sooner or later....I mean look
>at Europe....techno and raving is a part of everyday life!!
>
>sherry
>
>---------------------------------------------------------> mercury
>mercury@liquidmercury.com
>
>
>>oh fun - Miramax is doing the movie version of Doug Rushkoff's Ecstacy Club
>>- and the screenwriter "has been in contact with some of the Bay Area's
>>best party promoters to get a better sense of just what happened back
>>around 1992, and how it's trickled up to the present."
>>
>>i wonder who these promoters happen to be?  all you candy ravers can
>>probably expect to see yourselves on the big screen pretty soon - and watch
>>out, soon after you'll be able to buy your clothes at the nearest kmart.
>>pretty soon the entire country will be sucking lollipops and sporting
>>pigtails and fat pants...  and calling themselves "baby" something, with a
>>pacifier to match...
>>
>>from:  http://www.levity.com/rushkoff
>>
>>p.s.  i hope you guys are taking good care of freshie (brian) or i'll have
>>to fly out there and kick some california ass...
>>
>>just kidding...
>>
>>well, except for macadio.  he's gonna get his ass kicked anyway, just
>>because he's asking for it...
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
>>you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
>>an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."
>>
>>		--from The History of Magic
>>
>>do-reeeeee
>>http://dori.space
>>http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>



-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."

		--from The History of Magic

do-reeeeee
http://dori.space
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres

-------------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 19:33:17 1998
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From: Ravergrl27 <Ravergrl27@aol.com>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:23:42 EST
To: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com (RayVonie), groovinkim@connectexpress.com,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Love A-Fair/Underground Carnival
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Rayvonie wrote:
Thanks you for the wonderfull suport ravergirl... Im very flatered... all
those
nice compliments...   Wow..

Hi Vlad.....
  I just wanted to say that everything I wrote is TRUE..... I have been around
for a long time and seen alot of pepole come and go as far as promoter, ravers
and producers..... YOU are a one of the true SPIRITS of RAves ...  I must have
sent this letter to the hole list by mistake.. opps!!!! Now that I have.....
Here is to a man with great meaning of the word P.L.U.R. I wanted to let Kim
know just aliittle about your parties and what I have seen over the last
8years of all your hard  work... I know it is not easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your
LOVE and DEVOTION  has been shown in so many ways to so many pepole. I think
it was time for me to say something about what you are ALL about. What I have
seen is  PURE>>>>>> P.L.U.R.   You do stand out from all the rest... Big props
to you Vlad........ =) And many more years of fat REAL parties... As you would
say """Keep it real"""AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE JUST DONE... If you and Jeannie
ever need more help Just ask... You both are great....     Sorry about posting
some of my personal thoughts to the hole list but now you all know....
watching someone grow  over the years with one thing in mind (making pepps
happy) is such a wonderful life experience. I have experieneced it with
FEELGOOD and will contuine to do so....... MUCH LOVE
                                                                  ****
RAVEN****
QQ you at LOVE A-FAIR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 19:33:46 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:35:53 -0800
To: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: BSPs lacking info
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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        This post makes little sense to me except as an advertising teaser
designed to arouse interest.  Why post about a party, including a phone
number to get the full info, if it's "so discreet" you can't give the info
out over the list?

        Since there is an SFRaves calendar for this stuff, if you're going
to post a BSP to the list as well, please at least make it worth our while
to read by giving us the full scoop:  Cost, ages allowed in,
smoking/no-smoking, water/no-water, general location of event (i.e. 15
minutes from S.F. in east bay), hours, DJs/extras, am I missing anything?

                                <<< Starchild >>>

>       c       o       z       y
>
>s a t u r d a y,  j a n u a r y   2 4
>
>      an   i n t i m a t e  affair
>               so discreet
>that we can't even announce the dj's here.
>please call 510-704-9876 to get the dj line-up
>       and to inquire about tickets.
>
>   very limited tickets, pre-sale only.
> available at the trancefactory record
>store, 2575 telegraph ave in berkeley
>  (one block south of dwight way)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 20:07:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:11:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: FDA WARNING (NRR)
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Hey Alpha,

Since I am assuming you meant this to go to the list
I will forward it for you with my thoughts:

---alpha@mondos.u-net.com wrote:
>
> Peeps:
> 
> Just remember, its not the drug that makes the
person 

Wow are you a rocket scientist?

>  psuedo intellectuals 
> 
> who think that their bright because they abuse
> 
> 'e', 'a', 'k' or whatever fucking drug
> 
>  are to me just as lame as any al K holic

Psuedo intellectuals? I am assuming your speaking of
yourself, since anyone with half a friggin' brain could
tell that was a joke.
 
> Lots of cool people in the scene know how to enjoy
a >nice drink,

Lots of un-cool people do to. What exactly defines a
cool person in the scene?

> I even remember someone started a "boozin ravers"
>night out (hi nancy =)
> from this list...

I would love to sit over a nice "Porter" and chat
with you about the good times you had.
 
> Why people like to bash on alcohol, I can only
>surmise, is because its
> easy, its mainstream, and lots of dimwits like to
>drink and do stupid
> things...

and I quote: "lots of dimwits like to drink and do
stupid things" you said it not me


> but my point in the end, is to ask what kind of
benefits do you gain draw
> by sterotyping
> people?

I am not stereo typing anyone in the heading it read:
THE (key word coming now pay attention) POSSIBLE  PERIL
would you like me to flame you again or will that do.

You need to have yourself a cocktail and read whats
written before you go off half cocked.

My sarcastic a** rests with that note.
Hey if I see you out drinks on me.

LL





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 20:15:51 1998
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Subject: Re: I have a question
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You rock man!

LL





---Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com> wrote:
>
> I used to know this cat name Eddie Discobisquit. 
He was an e-slanging
> fool, and the sweetest, grooviest cat you ever did
know.  In his
> bell-bottom britches and 12 inch plats, he was
unloading the kind of bomb
> that the Bay Area had never seen before.    He knew
his was the best, but
> it never changed him.  He'd be standing there at a
party, getting all silky
> on a little lollipop lady when the kids  started
lining up in front of him.
> And Eddie, with the charm of a prince, wouldn't
even take his eyes off the
> lovely lady,  he'd just hold an e between his
fingers for you to see.  And
> he never even looked at the bills you gave him.
> 
> One night at a party, the bass bins got to thumpin
too much, and Old Lady
> Milktoast across the street got on the horn and
started fussing to the
> fuzz.  So pretty soon Officer Leonard arrived with
some boys in a paddy
> wagon and closed the party down.  Well naturally,
no one wanted to be the
> first to leave after having dropped Eddie's special
Twenty Megaton
> Rubberleg Bomb.
> 
> But then Eddie Discobisquit made the first move! 
He sauntered out into the
> parking lot as the kids watched in drop-jawed
wonder.  They felt nothing
> short of love for this elegant cat who would risk
it all.  So Eddie
> stumbled around the parking lot and tried to key
open a car door.   Nope,
> wrong car.  Try again.   Well, damn,  that's not it
either.  The kids
> pressed their noses against the windows and gasped
as Eddie fumbled around
> and tried to unlock Officer Leonard's patrol car.  
Old Officer Leonard
> frowned and waited.   So finally Eddie found his
car, and climbed inside.
> Well, damn, there he was in the passenger seat. 
Finally he got himself all
> situated, fired up the engine, and lurched out of
the parking lot like a
> rhino on angel dust.  And Officer Leonard was on
top of poor Eddie like
> stink on poop, bubblegum tops lighting up the
street like an impromptu
> underground.
> 
> Meanwhile, all the kids quietly got in their cars
and drove away, tears in
> their eyes as they passed by their flambuoyant
hero.  Officer Leonard gave
> Eddie the breathalyzer test.  0.0.   He told Eddie
to walk a straight line,
> which Eddie did with the finesse of a ballerina,
and then moonwalked in his
> 12- inch platforms back to the starting point.  The
nose-touches were
> perfect, and then Eddie said the alphabet backward
in English AND in
> Arabic.
> 
> By now, Officer Leonard was madder than a fratboy
without a bottle opener.
> He spat tobacco juice and stomped his feet. 
"Dat-gum fiddlin sumbitchin---
> what in Sam Hill is going on here?"
> 
> "Tonight," Eddie said, tossing his silk scarf over
his shoulder with a
> grace reserved for royalty,  "I am the designated
decoy."
> 
> 
> -b))merang
> 
> 
> 
>      H
>     ERE               http://www.slip.net/~hatfyr
>    ARETH
>   EFACTSYO
>  UREQUESTED       -enlarged for easy listening-
> 
>
\\\///\\\///\\\///\\//\\//\/\/\\/\\//\\//\\\///\\\///\\\///
>         "...the end of all our exploring
>         will be to arrive where we started
>         and know the place for the first time."
>                              - t.s. eliot
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 20:32:54 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:35:48 -0800
To: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: BSPs lacking info/   "Cozy" verification
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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i was posting this as a favour for a friend and the trance and factory.  :o)
truth be told, i don't belief that all the dj's  were confirmed when he
asked me to post this.
except me.   and i didn't want to mention that, because people migh think
I'm weird.   :o)

but shucks, what's wrong with a little mystery?    as mentioned, it's a
cozy party.   this means that if i had been foolish, i would have mentioned
that Sasha ,Digweed and Carl Cox will make a surprise appearance, and then
the  place would have been flooded with thousands of crazed ravers trying
to fit into a 200 person venue, thus taking the "cozy" and "intimate" feel
out of the party.   :o)

besides, as I said, "please call 510-704-9876 to get the dj line-up and to
inquire about tickets."   :o)

used to be a time when the less you knew about a party, the more exciting
it was.  nowadays, kids need 4-color 4-fold 4-star fliers in order to make
it worth their while.  young whippersnappers these days...  :o)

you can call the trance and jungle factory at 510-704-9876,
as i mentioned earlier.   Their number is 510-704-9876.    they will have
info on the dj lineup, if you call 510-704-9876.    there will be tap
water.   you can even bring your own tap.  it is an all ages event in the
berkeley area.  you can smoke, but i personally don't recommend it.  hours
will be typical rave hours,  which often happen from mid-evening to early
morning, usually until sunrise.  there will be a roof and 4 walls.  :o)

this party is a small and intimate event.  there are no fliers.
you might  call it "word of mouth"...and this is some sort of "teaser",
intended to "tease" people into looking further.  please call the number.
(510-704-9876)  if you feel teased.    :o)

thanks much!   :o)

b))merangBTW, you can reach the T & J Factory at 510-704-9876.    :o)



>        This post makes little sense to me except as an advertising teaser
>designed to arouse interest.  Why post about a party, including a phone
>number to get the full info, if it's "so discreet" you can't give the info
>out over the list?
>
>        Since there is an SFRaves calendar for this stuff, if you're going
>to post a BSP to the list as well, please at least make it worth our while
>to read by giving us the full scoop:  Cost, ages allowed in,
>smoking/no-smoking, water/no-water, general location of event (i.e. 15
>minutes from S.F. in east bay), hours, DJs/extras, am I missing anything?
>
>                                <<< Starchild >>>
>
>>       c       o       z       y
>>
>>s a t u r d a y,  j a n u a r y   2 4
>>
>>      an   i n t i m a t e  affair
>>               so discreet
>>that we can't even announce the dj's here.
>>please call 510-704-9876 to get the dj line-up
>>       and to inquire about tickets.
>>
>>   very limited tickets, pre-sale only.
>> available at the trancefactory record
>>store, 2575 telegraph ave in berkeley
>>  (one block south of dwight way)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 20:42:07 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: the Scully and Mulder fiasco
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=shagaliscious+40hotmail+2Ecom+3B@apollogrp.'s message of 01-21-98 08:28

Once again, I was only making a point about the power of the net.  I wouldn't
know any secrets about the X-Files until AFTER the episode already aired.  But
the stuff I wrote about Pulp Fiction was as far as I know, true.

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"...young hearts run free..."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 21:05:15 1998
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From: "Michael J. Bruton" <mikeb@crystal.palace.net>
Message-Id: <199801212105.QAA24275@crystal.palace.net>
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
To: goodvibe@geocities.com (Paul Hayden)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:05:04 -0500 (EST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <34C5BE1F.F0783DA@geocities.com> from "Paul Hayden" at Jan 21, 98 01:21:35 am
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I imagine that an Elephant Flip (PCP/MDMA) would be similar to Ketamine 
and MDMA - which "little birdies" tell me is kinda pointless and a waste 
of the MDMA.

<Mike>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 22:35:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:04:41 -0800
To: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: i have an answer
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I used to know this cat named Eddie Discobisquit, he was an e-slanging
fool, and the sweetest, grooviest cat you ever did meet.  With bell-bottom
britches and 12 inch plats, the kid brought in the fuzziest bisquits in the
bay area, and he didn't even care about the money.  He was so cool he
didn't even wait for the kids to ask.   There he'd be, leaning against the
wall and getting silky on a foxy little lollipop lady, and when people
approached him, he wouldn't even take his eyes off the lovely lady's eyes,
he'd just hold up a bisquit in his fingers to show his wares.  And he never
even looked at the bill you gave him.

One night at a party, the bassbins got so loud that Old Lady Milktoast from
across the street started fussing about the noise, so she got on the horn
and gave a piece of her mind to the fuzz.  Well, once old Officer Leonard
and the boys with the paddy wagon arrived to close up shop,  all the kids
started worrying about how they were going to get out of the parking lot,
after having dropped Eddie's Twenty Megaton Rubberleg Bomb.

So good old Eddie, pal to everyone on God's green earth, and with the gait
of a prince,  decided to make the move first.  He stumbled on out to the
parking lot while all the kids watched in quiet awe.  Eddie fumbled with
his keys, dropped them on the ground, picked 'em back up,  tried opening
the car door.  Nope, wrong car.  Stumbled around,  tried again.  Wrong car
again.  Well, hot damn.  Of course the key ain't going to fit into old
Officer Leonard's patrol car.  And old Officer Leonard is none too pleased,
but watches to see what happens.

So finally Eddie finds his car, keys open the door, and sits down.  Well,
damn.  He's in the passenger seat.  So he gets out and gets back in on the
driver's side, and lurches out of the parking lot.  And old Officer leonard
was on poor  Eddie like stink on poop, bubblegum top lighting up the street
like an impromptu afterparty.

Meanwhile, all the other kids quietly and solemnly drive away, tears in
their eyes as they think about their flambuoyant hero.

So old Officer Leonard gives Eddie a breathalyzer test.  0.0.   He drags
him out of the car.  Makes him walk a straight line, which he does with the
grace of a ballerina.  And on his 12-inch platform tiptoes, no less, just
to show off.   And then he moonwalked back to the starting point.   The
nose touch was perfect, the alphabet he said backwards in English AND in
Arabic.

"Well dat-gum sumbitchin--  what the fiddle is going on here?"  says old
Officer Leonard, spitting out his chaw juice with an understandable rage.

"Tonight,"  says Eddie, tossing his silk scarf over his shoulder with a
style reserved for royalty,  "I'm the designated decoy."



-b))merang



  b
   o
   o
 m
e
r
a
n
g    H
    ERE               http://www.slip.net/~hatfyr
   ARETH
  EFACTSYO
 UREQUESTED       -enlarged for easy listening-

\\\///\\\///\\\///\\//\\//\/\/\\/\\//\\//\\\///\\\///\\\///
        "...the end of all our exploring
        will be to arrive where we started
        and know the place for the first time."
                             - t.s. eliot



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 22:38:46 1998
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Subject: Re: Light*Seed
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	Phones	415.339.8464
				707.329.2189
	URL		www.digitalmoon.net/lightseed
	email		lseed@digitalmoon.net




>     hey all.....
>     
>     does anyone have the # for light seed???
>     
>     Lace
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 22:56:51 1998
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tonight on radio M>U>T>A>N>T+++++++++++++




dj's

jason ovabitch  (spiral tribe)
sunflowrfish
feckless
liquid acrobat

live performance by the Magic Carpet

live webcam----

www.hyperreal.org/~spaz/

spaz@hyperreal.org



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 23:11:31 1998
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Hi all,  well I'm going to buy one of these things.  Any good ideas as
to where?   Kinda hoping to pick it up before the weekend.

Thanks,


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 23:15:13 1998
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=0AIn a message dated 1/21/98 1:07:51 PM, you wrote:=0A=0A<<Psuedo intell=
ectuals? I am assuming your speaking of=0Ayourself, since anyone with hal=
f a friggin' brain could=0Atell that was a joke.>>=0A=0A*gasp*=0AIt WAS??=
?!@>=0A=0A=0Aheehaaaa=0A=0Anatasha  :=ACD=0A


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 21 23:44:20 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:38:49 EST
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Subject:  !=RR=!Douglas Rushkoff (sp?)
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I think that before Douglas Rushkoff wrote "The Ecstasy Club", he wrote a book
called "Cyberia". Have any of you heard of it? (Patrice knows what I'm talkng
about, the one where it describes Jeno dancing...=)  It is a very interesting
and intriguing book about so-called "futuristic subcultures". There are two
chapters about the rave scene in the Bay Area during the early 90's when Toon
Town was at its peak. One of the chapters is entitled "Technoshamanism, the
Transition Team" or something of that sort, and it makes some points about
feedback and itieration at a party. There's a big section on the analysis of E
and DMT...

The book also describes some other stuff like role playing games, hackers,
"designer" drugs, TOPY's etc. It's something good to pick up when you want
some sort of literary stimuli...

Anyone going to the Spiral Tribe party on Friday? What else does anyone have
planned?

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 00:07:39 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:54:33 EST
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_885426873_boundary
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YES!! This is a really excellent book.  I really enjoyed it.  I doesn't dwell
much on raving and such, but it does have some indepth descriptions of
people's personal experiences and is hight entertaining.  I mean, c'mon, Jeno
Dancing ;)  Just kidding.  Aside from talking about Toon Town, it brings up
many good points about how there are more subcultures out there than just
ravers, but we're really all reaching towards a similar goal.  To be accepted
while staying away from becoming to mainstream.  WHich is almost the
impossible dream.  I guess that's what makes raving such a difficult issue to
argue for.  YOu want to spread the vibe and the love and teach everyone that
what we're doing isn't a crime, but at the same time, there's so many people
we don't want to be a part of it.  It's a personal decision, I guess, but it's
why we will never really be able to agree and come together to push for our
cause.  ANd all the while it's becoming more and more mainstream.....

        hugs n'stuff on a rambling note,
                 'trice the tekno diva

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I think that before Douglas Rushkoff wrote "The Ecstasy Club", he wrote a book
called "Cyberia". Have any of you heard of it? (Patrice knows what I'm talkng
about, the one where it describes Jeno dancing...=)  It is a very interesting
and intriguing book about so-called "futuristic subcultures". There are two
chapters about the rave scene in the Bay Area during the early 90's when Toon
Town was at its peak. One of the chapters is entitled "Technoshamanism, the
Transition Team" or something of that sort, and it makes some points about
feedback and itieration at a party. There's a big section on the analysis of E
and DMT...

The book also describes some other stuff like role playing games, hackers,
"designer" drugs, TOPY's etc. It's something good to pick up when you want
some sort of literary stimuli...

Anyone going to the Spiral Tribe party on Friday? What else does anyone have
planned?

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-


--part0_885426873_boundary--

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 00:08:17 1998
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To: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild), sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: BSPs lacking info
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oh come on now, starchild, where's your sense of 'mystery', hmmmm?

cutie, don't let that lust for information ruin life's elements of surprise
- tee hee

>        This post makes little sense to me except as an advertising teaser
>designed to arouse interest.  Why post about a party, including a phone
>number to get the full info, if it's "so discreet" you can't give the info
>out over the list?
>
>        Since there is an SFRaves calendar for this stuff, if you're going
>to post a BSP to the list as well, please at least make it worth our while
>to read by giving us the full scoop:  Cost, ages allowed in,
>smoking/no-smoking, water/no-water, general location of event (i.e. 15
>minutes from S.F. in east bay), hours, DJs/extras, am I missing anything?
>
>                                <<< Starchild >>>
>
>>       c       o       z       y
>>
>>s a t u r d a y,  j a n u a r y   2 4
>>
>>      an   i n t i m a t e  affair
>>               so discreet
>>that we can't even announce the dj's here.
>>please call 510-704-9876 to get the dj line-up
>>       and to inquire about tickets.
>>
>>   very limited tickets, pre-sale only.
>> available at the trancefactory record
>>store, 2575 telegraph ave in berkeley
>>  (one block south of dwight way)
>
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 00:17:03 1998
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Does anyone know how to get in touch with Wicked Crew, Jeno,Garth, or
Carlos.  I am promoting several large parties in Atlanta this year and
wish to possibly book several sf djs for a large event.  If anyone could
point me in the right direction I would be very grateful.  Thanxxxx!

					Sputnik@Sputnik Productions

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 00:53:57 1998
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Dom Moreci wrote:
> 
> A list of actual English subtitles used in films made in Hong Kong:
> 
> 1.  I am damned unsatisfied to be killed in this way.
> 2.  Fatty, you with your thick face have hurt my instep.
> 3.  Gun wounds again?
> 4.  Same old rules: no eyes, no groin.
> 5.  A normal person wouldn't steal pituitaries.
> 6.  Damn, I'll burn you into a BBQ chicken!
> 7.  Take my advice, or I'll spank you without pants.
> 8.  Who gave you the nerve to get killed here?
> 9.  Quiet or I'll blow your throat up.
> 10. You always use violence. I should've ordered glutinous rice chicken.
> 11. I'll fire aimlessly if you don't come out!
> 12. You daring lousy guy.
> 13. Beat him out of recognizable shape!
> 14. I have been scared shitless too much lately.
> 15. I got knife scars more than the number of your leg's hair!
> 16. Beware! Your bones are going to be disconnected.
> 17. The bullets inside are very hot. Why do I feel so cold?
> 
> And finally...
> 18. How can you use my intestines as a gift?

-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

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Please forward e-mails to Derek at the following e-mail address.. I'm
sorry to SPAM the list (not really! hehe) but I didn't want your good
vibes to miss Derek.. because he could sure use them... as per my last
-email regarding this fine fellow raver and spiritualist...

drekster@juno.com


Love...

another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 01:03:12 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:36:11 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP: PHUNCKATECK LOUNGING IT....
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Yes folks were back for #2 in a series of one-offs...
(#1 is @ THE TOP....this Saturday January 24th)
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 4TH

                             *PHUNCKATECK @ THE VELVET LOUNGE*

                                       WAXIN' THA DECKS WILL BE: 
                                                     SAGE
                                                     NOEL
                                                     ABSTRACT
                                                 &  UFO

                                      location: THE VELVET LOUNGE
                                          443 BROADWAY ST. S.F.
                                                   9PM-2AM
                                                  21+ (sorry)
                                                     5 bones
                                       There will be food served too...

                                     INFO LINE: 415.331.1500 ext 160


Hope to see you out...
PEACE
PHUNCKATECK COMMUNICATIONS
THE LAST WORD IN FUTURE SOUNDS OF DRUM & BASS

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 01:10:36 1998
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Subject: Re: !=RR=!Douglas Rushkoff (sp?)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 16:41:18 -0800
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>I think that before Douglas Rushkoff wrote "The Ecstasy Club", he wrote a 
>book called "Cyberia". Have any of you heard of it?

I'm waiting anxiously for Brian Behlendorf's glowing review of "Cyberia" 
to make a reappearance.

+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Alexander M. Rosenberg <mailto:alexr@_goonsquad.spies.com> |
| Nobody cares what I say. Remove the underscore to mail me. |


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 02:04:56 1998
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Subject: derek
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Lots of partys coming up...any way we could raise some
FUNds for derek or at least a huge get well card signed
by 1000 ravers? 

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

---------------------------------		

*byroni* wrote:
> 
> Please forward e-mails to Derek at the following e-mail address.. I'm
> sorry to SPAM the list (not really! hehe) but I didn't want your good
> vibes to miss Derek.. because he could sure use them... as per my last
> -email regarding this fine fellow raver and spiritualist...
> 
> drekster@juno.com
> 
> Love...
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                         -me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 02:16:28 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:08:08 EST
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I'll sign it!!!!!  WE LOVE YOU DEREK!!

         HUGS<
            "Trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 02:18:12 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:07:25 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Proposition 143
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  HEllo everyone!! This is ROb's idea, but since he won't post it I get to do
it for him =)~*  Ok

       Proposition 143:

    At 1:43 a.m. you must hug everyone near you to spread the love and unite
in mind, body, soul, and harmony (so far so good, Rob?)  To keep the good
vibes flowing and spread joy to everyone, whether you know them or not. 

   IT's easier than PLUR......

      VOTE YES ON PROP 143!!!!!

   (now we can start a campaign... T-shirts, buttons, posters, rallies... all
in favor of Prop 143)

       <3 <3 <3spreading the love <3 <3 <3 
                       'trice the tekno diva

    "The magic of first love is our ingnorance that it could never end."

    "What, are those dogs?? I must be tripping.. NO.. THEy"RE GOATS!!"

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 02:19:04 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:17:12 +0000
Subject: Thanks Ravers!
From: "Scott Upper" <scupps@earthlink.net>
To: SF RAVES MAILING LIST <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Hey Brothers and Sisters Up North: 
Hi.
I posted an invitation to my rave toy website Spinlolly last week.
I just wanted to say thanks to you guys up north for not FLAMING the heck
out of me.
I was really new to the lists, and didn't realize that my posting came
across as an unsolicited advertisement.  It certainly was not meant to be
that.
(Rest assured, the Midwest and Boston FREAKED on me - but then again, I
guess they are not really into "candy and toys - spread the good vibe thing"
over there.)

I just want to clarify in case anyone was wondering...nobody paid us to do
this.
We are just a couple of (starving) guys who really love rave toys and
electronic music, and decided to try to make rave toys available on-line
instead of only at parties.


I'd love any feedback you could give me on the site.
Major whopping peace to ya'.
Scott
P.S.  Raving in San Fransisco beats the hell out of raving in L.A. lately. 
Too many gangsters messin' up the vibe.
********************************
Scott Upper
Spinlolly   
...toys and tunes from outer cyber-space.
(310) 452-GLOW  :)
http://www.spinlolly.com
rave@spinlolly.com
**********************************

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 02:27:07 1998
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Message-Id: <34C6AF42.344C@millenniumpulse.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:30:26 -0800
From: Aeron Oshie <Aeron@millenniumpulse.com>
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Organization: Millennium Pulse
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*********************************************************** 
*         Millennium Pulse Productions Presents:          * 
*                                                         * 
*            ushering in the "Summer of Truth"            * 
*                                                         * 
*              http://www.millenniumpulse.com             *
***********************************************************

Date: Friday, January 23rd                  Time: 8pm - 3am 

Admission: $ 10.00                                 age: 21+

Millennium Pulse Event
----------------------
Please join us at the next Millennium Pulse Party, as we 
begin the count down to the "Summer of Truth" festival 
for the year 2000 in San Francisco.  Get involved with 
the movement and experience the unique musical vibration 
that is gaining popularity as we progress toward the next 
Millennium.

Music
-----
Featuring a family of Tribal/Middle Eastern/Asian influenced 
Rock bands:  

- 12:30 SUNFUR
- 11pm  Trillian Green
- 10pm  Aeron Oshie Band
- 9pm   Daniel Berkman (African Kora) 

* Tribal Drum Circle (bring your drum to participate)

Artwork/performances
--------------------
Artwork by the Millennium Artist, Mattison Fitzgerald. 
Various performances, dance and art installations will 
be featured throughout the night.  

Location
--------
Cafe Cocomo (Potrero Hills Venue) 
650 Indiana Street, (cross street- Mariposa) 
Potrero Hills, San Francisco 
(there is plenty of parking close by)

Directions
----------
Heading North on 101 take 280 East: 
-> Exit Mariposa St.
-> Turn Right onto Mariposa 
-> Turn Right onto Indiana St. (1st intersection) 
-> Cafe Cocomo on right hand side of street

-or-

>From Downtown on Mission Street take 17th Street East:
-> Turn Right onto Rhode Island
-> Turn Left onto Mariposa
-> Turn Right onto Indiana St. 
-> Cafe Cocomo on right hand side of street

Additional Information
----------------------
For more information checkout our website at:

http://www.millenniumpulse.com
-or-
call 415.265.3455

===============================================================================

Alpha Squids -> Laughing Squid Productions http://www.laughingsquid.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 02:42:37 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:40:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Ravergrl27 <Ravergrl27@aol.com>
cc: stuff@hooked.net, groovinkim@connectexpress.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  rayvonie@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Love A-Fair/Underground Carnival
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here here Raven i second your opinion on Vlad..

VLAD YOU ROCK!
i lurve that grin you flash around!
xo
lara

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Ravergrl27 wrote:

> Subj:	Re: Love A-Fair/Underground Carnival
> Date:	98-01-20 17:49:30 EST
> From:	Ravergrl27
> To:	rayvonie@ix.netcom.com
> 
> Hi Vlad.....
>   I just wanted to say that everything I wrote is TRUE..... I have been around
> for a long time and seen alot of pepole come and go as far as promoter, ravers
> and producers..... YOU are a one of the true SPIRITS of RAves ...  I must have
> sent this letter to the hole list by mistake.. opps!!!! Now that I have.....
> Here is to a man with great meaning of the word P.L.U.R. I wanted to let Kim
> know just aliittle about your parties and what I have seen over the last
> 8years of all your hard  work... I know it is not easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your
> LOVE and DEVOTION  has been shown in so many ways to so many pepole. I think
> it was time for me to say something about what you are ALL about. What I have
> seen is  PURE>>>>>> P.L.U.R.   You do stand out from all the rest... Big props
> to you Vlad........ =) And many more years of fat REAL parties... As you would
> say """Keep it real"""AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE JUST DONE... If you and Jeannie
> ever need more help Just ask... You both are great....     Sorry about posting
> some of my personal thoughts to the hole list but now you all know....
> watching someone grow  over the years with one thing in mind (making pepps
> happy) is such a wonderful life experience. I have experieneced it with
> FEELGOOD and will contuine to do so....... MUCH LOVE
>                                                                   ****
> RAVEN****
> QQ you at LOVE A-FAIR
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 02:57:25 1998
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hey kiddoz.... :)

would n-E-one happen 2 have tha inside edition on tha b-boy summit? or 
should i say adidas fest '98... he he :)
all i know iz that it iz supposed 2 b sumtime in february... 
hmmm... just wundering!! :)

MuchLollipopLuuuuv'n'MadKrazyHugzzzzz.....
(((((dEnisE)))))



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 03:28:22 1998
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Wait...what happened to Derek?

-Matt-

>Lots of partys coming up...any way we could raise some
>FUNds for derek or at least a huge get well card signed
>by 1000 ravers? 
>
>	><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>---------------------------------		
>
>*byroni* wrote:
>> 
>> Please forward e-mails to Derek at the following e-mail address.. I'm
>> sorry to SPAM the list (not really! hehe) but I didn't want your good
>> vibes to miss Derek.. because he could sure use them... as per my 
last
>> -email regarding this fine fellow raver and spiritualist...
>> 
>> drekster@juno.com
>> 

>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 04:01:57 1998
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Is anyone going and has anyone heard DJ Doubt from MoS UK before?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 04:31:39 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:31:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: b-boy summit '98?
To: denise castillo <elmozgrrl@hotmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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I want to know about this too! :D

-Uncle Noah
shameless lablewhore

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, denise castillo wrote:

> hey kiddoz.... :)
> 
> would n-E-one happen 2 have tha inside edition on tha b-boy summit? or 
> should i say adidas fest '98... he he :)
> all i know iz that it iz supposed 2 b sumtime in february... 
> hmmm... just wundering!! :)
> 
> MuchLollipopLuuuuv'n'MadKrazyHugzzzzz.....
> (((((dEnisE)))))
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 04:50:15 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:47:00 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Harmony <ascend@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Harmony Saturday March 7th!!!
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Hello Sfraves!

On Saturday March 7th, 1998

The Harmony Family will get together to produce a very special event. We
just secured a beautiful space, and are starting to plan a phat party!
There is so much more to be announced, so stay tooned. this is gonna be
awesome!!!

Peace and love


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 05:03:01 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:57:45 EST
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Another raver reading selection would have to be Altered States: the story of
ecstasy culture and acid house by Mathew collins (i think). theres a lot of
history in it which gets a little bit tedious in the middle, but theres  great
stuff about spiral tribe, the ibiza originals and about the whole evolution of
the scene and different genres of music. definitly a must for any raver
interested in their history.
blake


In a message dated 98-01-21 18:44:34 EST, you write:

<< I think that before Douglas Rushkoff wrote "The Ecstasy Club", he wrote a
book
 called "Cyberia". Have any of you heard of it? (Patrice knows what I'm talkng
 about, the one where it describes Jeno dancing...=)  It is a very interesting
 and intriguing book about so-called "futuristic subcultures". There are two
 chapters about the rave scene in the Bay Area during the early 90's when Toon
 Town was at its peak. One of the chapters is entitled "Technoshamanism, the
 Transition Team" or something of that sort, and it makes some points about
 feedback and itieration at a party. There's a big section on the analysis of
E
 and DMT...
 
 The book also describes some other stuff like role playing games, hackers,
 "designer" drugs, TOPY's etc. It's something good to pick up when you want
 some sort of literary stimuli... >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 05:14:28 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "XGrRLsTrX" <XGrRLsTrX@aol.com>, <SFraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: BSP Re:  !=RR=!Douglas Rushkoff (sp?)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:04:47 -0800
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<blatantselfpromo>

We sell both those books at Raverbooks if anyone is looking for
them. *grinning* http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave

</blatantselfpromo>

Hey! He has a website and I emailed him and he wrote back :)
He's cool!

love kim

p.s. Rave related content - thanks for the love a-fair advice! i think
i am going to come down for it!
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
         what does it mean when someone says
            "my computer went down on me"?
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: XGrRLsTrX <XGrRLsTrX@aol.com>
To: SFraves@hyperreal.org <SFraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 3:42 PM
Subject: !=RR=!Douglas Rushkoff (sp?)


>I think that before Douglas Rushkoff wrote "The Ecstasy Club", he wrote a
book
>called "Cyberia". Have any of you heard of it? (Patrice knows what I'm
talkng
>about, the one where it describes Jeno dancing...=)  It is a very
interesting
>and intriguing book about so-called "futuristic subcultures". There are two
>chapters about the rave scene in the Bay Area during the early 90's when
Toon
>Town was at its peak. One of the chapters is entitled "Technoshamanism, the
>Transition Team" or something of that sort, and it makes some points about
>feedback and itieration at a party. There's a big section on the analysis
of E
>and DMT...
>
>The book also describes some other stuff like role playing games, hackers,
>"designer" drugs, TOPY's etc. It's something good to pick up when you want
>some sort of literary stimuli...
>
>Anyone going to the Spiral Tribe party on Friday? What else does anyone
have
>planned?
>
>-=~*LaUrE@*~=-


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 05:29:25 1998
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From: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d09cddd5.34c6d91f@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:29:01 EST
To: goodvibe@geocities.com, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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In a message dated 1/21/98 2:11:46 AM, goodvibe@geocities.com wrote:

>Can anyone here describe the effects of combing MDMA with PCP.
>Also known as an Elephant Flip or Domex.
>I was told that it is said to rid PCP of the bad effects and make the
>MDMA body high incredible. Please post any reports of this. Of course,
>you heard this report from a friend of a friend. Does anyone know
>anything about this?


sounds like a freakin nightmare to me  :)

-vortexbrad

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 05:30:28 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:25:20 EST
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Subject: Re: i have an answer
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your the shit man
i love your stories


In a message dated 98-01-21 17:37:08 EST, you write:

<< I used to know this cat named Eddie Discobisquit, he was an e-slanging
 fool, and the sweetest, grooviest cat you ever did meet.  With bell-bottom
 britches and 12 inch plats, the kid brought in the fuzziest bisquits in the
 bay area, and he didn't even care about the money.  He was so cool he
 didn't even wait for the kids to ask.   There he'd be, leaning against the
 wall and getting silky on a foxy little lollipop lady, and when people
 approached him, he wouldn't even take his eyes off the lovely lady's eyes,
 he'd just hold up a bisquit in his fingers to show his wares.  And he never
 even looked at the bill you gave him.
 
 One night at a party, the bassbins got so loud that Old Lady Milktoast from
 across the street started fussing about the noise, so she got on the horn
 and gave a piece of her mind to the fuzz.  Well, once old Officer Leonard
 and the boys with the paddy wagon arrived to close up shop,  all the kids
 started worrying about how they were going to get out of the parking lot,
 after having dropped Eddie's Twenty Megaton Rubberleg Bomb.
 
 So good old Eddie, pal to everyone on God's green earth, and with the gait
 of a prince,  decided to make the move first.  He stumbled on out to the
 parking lot while all the kids watched in quiet awe.  Eddie fumbled with
 his keys, dropped them on the ground, picked 'em back up,  tried opening
 the car door.  Nope, wrong car.  Stumbled around,  tried again.  Wrong car
 again.  Well, hot damn.  Of course the key ain't going to fit into old
 Officer Leonard's patrol car.  And old Officer Leonard is none too pleased,
 but watches to see what happens.
 
 So finally Eddie finds his car, keys open the door, and sits down.  Well,
 damn.  He's in the passenger seat.  So he gets out and gets back in on the
 driver's side, and lurches out of the parking lot.  And old Officer leonard
 was on poor  Eddie like stink on poop, bubblegum top lighting up the street
 like an impromptu afterparty.
 
 Meanwhile, all the other kids quietly and solemnly drive away, tears in
 their eyes as they think about their flambuoyant hero.
 
 So old Officer Leonard gives Eddie a breathalyzer test.  0.0.   He drags
 him out of the car.  Makes him walk a straight line, which he does with the
 grace of a ballerina.  And on his 12-inch platform tiptoes, no less, just
 to show off.   And then he moonwalked back to the starting point.   The
 nose touch was perfect, the alphabet he said backwards in English AND in
 Arabic.
 
 "Well dat-gum sumbitchin--  what the fiddle is going on here?"  says old
 Officer Leonard, spitting out his chaw juice with an understandable rage.
 
 "Tonight,"  says Eddie, tossing his silk scarf over his shoulder with a
 style reserved for royalty,  "I'm the designated decoy."
 
 
 
 -b))merang
 
 
 
   b
    o
    o
  m
 e
 r
 a
 n
 g    H
     ERE               http://www.slip.net/~hatfyr
    ARETH
   EFACTSYO
  UREQUESTED       -enlarged for easy listening-
 
 \\\///\\\///\\\///\\//\\//\/\/\\/\\//\\//\\\///\\\///\\\///
         "...the end of all our exploring
         will be to arrive where we started
         and know the place for the first time."
                              - t.s. eliot
  >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 06:08:31 1998
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From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: <Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Resurrection
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:51:42 -0800
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Ministry of Sound ???? when and where ?

never heard of Dj Doubt ... sorry ... but i wouldnt mind
hearing some of the stuff they spin back in the UK ...

Rudi

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven_Allas <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 8:02 PM
Subject: Resurrection


>
>Is anyone going and has anyone heard DJ Doubt from MoS UK before?
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 06:08:37 1998
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From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: lightseed tickets on sale at the door or at map point ??
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:57:22 -0800
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I am planning on attending Lightseed this weekend ... I was wondering
whether they will be selling tix at the door or at a map point or
something ... they dont have any on sale in the san jose area and
i really dont feel like taking a trip to santa cruz or SF just to get
tickets ...

Thanks

:)

Rudi

The content of this message | mailto:rudir@aimnet.com
in no way reflects the      | mailto:rrughoon@mipos3.intel.com
opinion of my employer :)   | http://www.aimnet.com/~rudir/
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 06:43:50 1998
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Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 11:16:21 -0000
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From: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
To: "Dori" <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>, <off-topik@dewline.com>
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The wierdest thing happened to me.  I was @ Virgin Megastore
waiting in line to use the batheroom when I saw this book
with a pretty loud, bright, tech design.  So I glance @ the
title and it says "Ecstacy Club".  And think to myself "NO
WAY" and I pick it up and read the back and hey wait a minute
it is about raving....in good old Oakland?!  What a weird
coincidence.  

I never known anyone else who had heard of the book and I've
been meaning to buy it.  Have you read it?  Is it good?  Is
it true/real?

Anyhow,  so a movie huh.  Shit that kinda sucks, but hey
I guess it's all gonna happen sooner or later....I mean look
at Europe....techno and raving is a part of everyday life!!

sherry

---------------------------------------------------------> mercury
mercury@liquidmercury.com


>oh fun - Miramax is doing the movie version of Doug Rushkoff's Ecstacy Club
>- and the screenwriter "has been in contact with some of the Bay Area's
>best party promoters to get a better sense of just what happened back
>around 1992, and how it's trickled up to the present."
>
>i wonder who these promoters happen to be?  all you candy ravers can
>probably expect to see yourselves on the big screen pretty soon - and watch
>out, soon after you'll be able to buy your clothes at the nearest kmart.
>pretty soon the entire country will be sucking lollipops and sporting
>pigtails and fat pants...  and calling themselves "baby" something, with a
>pacifier to match...
>
>from:  http://www.levity.com/rushkoff
>
>p.s.  i hope you guys are taking good care of freshie (brian) or i'll have
>to fly out there and kick some california ass...
>
>just kidding...
>
>well, except for macadio.  he's gonna get his ass kicked anyway, just
>because he's asking for it...
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
>you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
>an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."
>
>		--from The History of Magic
>
>do-reeeeee
>http://dori.space
>http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 07:10:02 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:20:19 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
CC: SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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Where did you hear that?
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

megan hug wrote:
> 
> wrong animal...
> 
> i think it's actually call that a --> (jack)ASS FLIP.
> 
> At 01:21 AM 1/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >Can anyone here describe the effects of combing MDMA with PCP.
> >Also known as an Elephant Flip or Domex.
> >I was told that it is said to rid PCP of the bad effects and make the
> >MDMA body high incredible. Please post any reports of this. Of course,
> >you heard this report from a friend of a friend. Does anyone know
> >anything about this?
> >Love,
> >Paul*E*Wog
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 07:52:30 1998
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From: Dj Marq <DjMarq@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1ea7ab23.34c6f9ad@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:47:55 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: natasha's birthday
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um.....my birthday is on saturday too......just thought ide say it.  

i'm hoping to see some of you at ground zero. i'll be there.

marQ

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 08:31:33 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:31:15 EST
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I will be at this party, and I heard that dj doubt is DOPE!


marQ

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 09:22:07 1998
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-->Hmmm, don't know about Dj Doubt, but I avoid the Ministry of Sound like
the plague.  It was the same as SoundFactory or 1015 Folsom or LA's Arena
and probably similar to NYC's Twilo...one of those big commercial venues
for the club kids and fashion victims. I went once and that was enough.
Can't remember the music; I think it was good, but the vibe was all wrong.
Maybe the vibe in SF will be better...where's it at?

:)
M&m


On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Rudi Rughoonundon wrote:

> Ministry of Sound ???? when and where ?
> 
> never heard of Dj Doubt ... sorry ... but i wouldnt mind
> hearing some of the stuff they spin back in the UK ...
> 
> Rudi
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven_Allas <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
> To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 8:02 PM
> Subject: Resurrection
> 
> 
> >
> >Is anyone going and has anyone heard DJ Doubt from MoS UK before?
> >
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 09:24:02 1998
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From: Steve Simitzis <steve@saturn5.com>
Message-Id: <199801220923.BAA18532@atari.saturn5.com>
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
To: jsl@twenty-hz.com (John S. Lee)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:23:39 -0800 (PST)
Cc: drakonis@mindless.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <v03102805b0ebbf6b3f8a@[209.133.7.194]> from "John S. Lee" at Jan 21, 98 07:07:04 am
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>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:07:04 -0800
>To: drakonis@mindless.com
>From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
>Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
>Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
>Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
>
>At 7:43 PM -0800 1/19/98, Drakonis Darkheart wrote:
><snip>
>>Can you elaborate more ? What type is this ??? Trance, hardcore, HOUSE
>>CRAP, ??? what ?
>
>It's music.
>
>Now go and take a listen and buy it.
>

It's that crazy "doof doof oontz oontz" music I've heard so much about.

Steve

-- 
Steve Simitzis | steve@saturn5.com || steve@criticalpath.net | "Hup!" - R.Crumb
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 09:29:00 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
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--> Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm not ignoring you or
anything.  School just started yesterday, and this first week is a
nightmare...just have enough time to logon and clear my mailbox till free
time shows up again. I kept this thread on the list cause I thought we
were discussing important schtuff and since Californians are
passive/agressive they tend to be too non-confrontational as well.
However, this thread is getting ridiculous in length (it's taking forever
to type the replies) and ppl are probably getting bored of it as well...so
I will respond probably twice more before changing the thread or
somethin'.

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 14:47:27 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Resurrection
To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>,
  Rudi Rughoonundon <rudir@aimnet.com>
Cc: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Hey Minh,

Ministry of Sound is not just clubs, far from 1015 or
SoundFactory, Ministry of Sound has produced some of
the best DJ's in the world. Sure its about clubs, but
its also about consistently bomb ass
music. The clubs I went to in Ibiza were absolutely
crazy fun hi ~elena~ there isn't a club in the U.S.
that even comes close. (IMHO) DJ Doubt is dope Marc,
Ground Zero I'll see you there.

LL
 





---"Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
> 
> -->Hmmm, don't know about Dj Doubt, but I avoid the
Ministry of Sound like
> the plague.  It was the same as SoundFactory or
1015 Folsom or LA's Arena
> and probably similar to NYC's Twilo...one of those
big commercial venues
> for the club kids and fashion victims. I went once
and that was enough.
> Can't remember the music; I think it was good, but
the vibe was all wrong.
> Maybe the vibe in SF will be better...where's it at?
> 
> :)
> M&m
> 
> 
> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Rudi Rughoonundon wrote:
> 
> > Ministry of Sound ???? when and where ?
> > 
> > never heard of Dj Doubt ... sorry ... but i
wouldnt mind
> > hearing some of the stuff they spin back in the
UK ...
> > 
> > Rudi
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steven_Allas <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
> > To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 8:02 PM
> > Subject: Resurrection
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > >Is anyone going and has anyone heard DJ Doubt
from MoS UK before?
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 16:58:56 1998
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Steven_Allas wrote:
> 
> Is anyone going and has anyone heard DJ Doubt from MoS UK before?

If you would like to hear him he spins on Saturday nights at Club X and
on Wild 107s house music show (think its 94.? something now) not really
my type of house (big 'ol CeCe Penniston "Finally" remixes) 'nuff said.
At Pablo's we call it "tourist house" since that's generally what it
takes to get the tourists who wander by early in the evening to dance to
house music or I guess you could call it "East Bay high school prom
house."
-SUNNY


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 17:35:01 1998
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From: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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need i say more?

;)

At 11:20 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
>Where did you hear that?
>Love,
>Paul*E*Wog
>
>megan hug wrote:
>> 
>> wrong animal...
>> 
>> i think it's actually call that a --> (jack)ASS FLIP.
>> 
>> At 01:21 AM 1/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> >Can anyone here describe the effects of combing MDMA with PCP.
>> >Also known as an Elephant Flip or Domex.
>> >I was told that it is said to rid PCP of the bad effects and make the
>> >MDMA body high incredible. Please post any reports of this. Of course,
>> >you heard this report from a friend of a friend. Does anyone know
>> >anything about this?
>> >Love,
>> >Paul*E*Wog
>> >
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 17:51:30 1998
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From: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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To: Matt Schwartz <thorfio@hotmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: derek
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Matt,

He got into a car accident after "Mack Audio"'s party on Saturday night.
It was rainy and wet and he didn't see a traffic light. His car is
driveable but he can't really dirve it. The reason is because there is
enought damage for him to be pulled over for. So he's carless and pretty
bummed. 

A bunch of us are going to plan something (hush!) for him and surprise
him.... if you're interested in this, please e-mail me.

send an e-mail to "drekster@juno.com" to brightened his day and increase
the vibe.... 

Love,
Byronibear


On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Matt Schwartz wrote:

> 
> Wait...what happened to Derek?
> 
> -Matt-
> 
> >Lots of partys coming up...any way we could raise some
> >FUNds for derek or at least a huge get well card signed
> >by 1000 ravers? 
> >
> >	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> >
> >---------------------------------		
> >
> >*byroni* wrote:
> >> 
> >> Please forward e-mails to Derek at the following e-mail address.. I'm
> >> sorry to SPAM the list (not really! hehe) but I didn't want your good
> >> vibes to miss Derek.. because he could sure use them... as per my 
> last
> >> -email regarding this fine fellow raver and spiritualist...
> >> 
> >> drekster@juno.com
> >> 
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey byroni! :)


(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 17:52:23 1998
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From: laura@hyperreal.org
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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Steve 5 wrote (about Astral Matrix):
>>At 7:43 PM -0800 1/19/98, Drakonis Darkheart wrote:
>><snip>
>>>Can you elaborate more ? What type is this ??? Trance, hardcore, HOUSE
>>>CRAP, ??? what ?
>>
>>It's music.
>>
>>Now go and take a listen and buy it.
>>
>
>It's that crazy "doof doof oontz oontz" music I've heard so much about.

With a good amount of that wrrrble wrrble blurble blurble neeyook neeyook
acid 303 sound thrown in for good measure.  

Laura


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 18:57:20 1998
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Subject: NRR:FW: From DEREK.. :)
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Derek wanted me to forward this to the list...

I just want to thank everyone who sent me those good, juicy vibes.  It was
such a pleasant surprise to see a whole bunch of mail hit me and to also
see all the names that I remember oh so vividly from my dayz on SFRaves.
I'm doing alright now.  Only thing different in life is that I quit my job
(mainly because it sucked and not because of not having a car) and that I
also take the ACTransit when I go to college.  I think I'll get through
all this gibberish o.k. now that I have all your good vibes.  
C U L8R Everyone.  Maybe I'll see you at Lightseed.  Who knows?  Just look
for the crazy kid with bleached blonde hair.
Toodles.

Derek..


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 19:08:01 1998
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Subject: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2
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Hello-

Has anybody listened to the double CD, Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2.
I just got done listening to both CD's (westcoast edition, eastcoast
edition) and I was wondering what other people thought of these CD's.

Personally I love both of them.  The westcoast CD is more trancy, with some
older songs mixed in with some good songs from the recent year.  The
eastcoast CD is laidback, breakbeat stuff.  Not usually my type of thing,
but the choice of tracks are excellent and I'm turning into a convert.

Anyway, just wanted feedback if there's any out there :)     (I'm sure
there is!)

-Todd



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 19:32:24 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: HEY Music lovers!!
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HIIIIIIDy HO Cowboys!!  Does anyone have any of the following CDs?  I have a
one or two which are good -
 a lot of them look like they might be good, but I want to KNOW before I buy
because
 I am an anal information slut. : )

Thanks all you music-lovin raver gurus.
muchisimoamor
Terri

>>
>>Key: Title / Artists(s) / No. of Tracks / Year / Label / Price (includes
>postage)
>>
>>
>>...I care because you do / Aphex Twin / 12 / 95 / Sire / $8
>>
>>Richard D. James Album / Aphex Twin / 15 / 96 / Sire / $10
>>
>>Ventolin (Single) / Aphex Twin / 12 / 95 / Sire / $6
>>
>>Ambient Systems (2 CD) / Terre Thaemlitz; Sub Dub; Adham Shaikh; Omicron;
>Facil; Human Mesh Dance; Deep Space Network; Mysteries of Science; Seti;
>Evolve Now / 17 / 95 / Instinct Ambient/ $13
>>
>>werks like a twelve inch / Soul Oddity; Spacetime Continuum; 777; Freaky
>Chakra; Steve Fisk; Ben Neill / 10 / 96 / Caroline / Astalwerks / $7
>>
>>The American Dream / Animal Heroes; The Crystal Method; Wink; Uberzone;
>Rabbit in the Moon; Elastic Chakra; DJ Icee; Elements of Life; The Magi;
>Frankie =B3O=B2 / 10 / 95 / City of Angels / $6
>>
>>Chill Out or Die IV (2 CD) / Wagon Christ; Irresistible Force; Syzygy;
>Bedouin Ascent; Radiowaves; Air Liquide; Electronic Dub; James Bernard;
>Rabbit in the Moon; Humate; Neutron 9000; MLO; M-Age; Tanzmuzik; New London
>School of Electronics; Dreamfish / 16 / 95 / Rising High / $13
>>
>>The Deseo Remixes / Jon Anderson; Deep Forest; Trans-Global Underground;
>Future Sound of London; Global Communication / 8 / 95 / WH / $7
>>
>>Drum Club Live in Iceland / Drum Club / 8 / 95 / Instinct Live / $6
>>
>>Villager / Deighton, Matt / 10 / 96 / Hollywood-Acid Jazz / $7
>>
>>Buhloone Mindstate / De La Soul / 15 / 93 / Tommy Boy / $5
>>
>>Excursions in Ambience: the fourth frontier / Flying Saucer Attack;
>Me-Sheen; Luna Sol; Ben Neill; Far-Out Son of Lung; Labradford; 777; Single
>Cell Orchestra; Freezer; Node / 10 / 96? / Astralwerks / $6
>>
>>Fuck Jungle / DJ Soul Slinger; The Shooter; DJ Wally; MC Panic; DJ
>Darkstar; Ani & Beau; The River of Action; Marshall H; G-Man / 10 / 96 /
>Jungle Sky / $8
>>
>>Mixed Messages: A Robbie Hardkiss Mix / Sundata; Slam; Elements of Life; A
>Certain Ratio; Jondi & Spesh; The Drum Club; Too Funk; The Future Sound of
>London; Walker; Cajmere; Innocent; Percy X; She; Love Lee / 14 / 96 /
>Hardkiss / $7
>>
>>This Is Home Entertainment / Sub Dub; DJ Spooky; N2O; 4-E; Byzar; Alien
>Mind; Elijah; Yab Yum / 10 / 95 / Jungle Sky / $6
>>
>>hippy house + happy hop 2=8Bthe second coming / Johnny Dayglo; Extasis;=
 Sons
>of Be Bop; The Prophet Five; The Quiet Boys featuring Galliano; M.C. Sleeze
>& Solid Gone; A Silent Way / 7 / 96 / Hollywood-Acid Jazz / $8
>>
>>hardhop + trypno / Eboman; Philadelphia Blunt; Uberzone; Fatboy Slim;
>Keoki; Supersoul; Zen Cowboys; More Funky Shit; The Crystal Method; Mr.
>Funkster / 10 / 96 / Moonshine / $8
>>
>>hardhop + trypno v.2 / Hard Knox; Tales from the Hardside; Planet Jazz;
>Darkglobe; Uberzone; Supersoul; Control-x; Immigrant; Fatboy Slim; Mono;
>Coffee Boys; Mental Blox / 12 / 97 / Moonshine / $10
>>
>>inna rub a dub style numba 3 / Nuff Nuff; Nitty Kutchie & Boom Dynamite;
>Alley Cat; Harry Todler; Determine; Elephant Man; Linton Tony; Singing=
 Bird;
>Little Jack; Frisco Banton; Pinchers; Lukie D. / 13 / 95 / DownSound / $5
>>
>>Mysteries of Science: The Erotic Nature of Automated Universes / Mysteries
>of Science / 4 / 95 / Instinct Ambient / $7
>>
>>Moonshine Mixer no. 1 / Doc Martin; Elli Mac; E.K.O.; Stateside / 8 / 97 /
>Moonshine / $7
>>
>>Phuturistic Phunk / El Turco Loco; Triple R & Walker; Dr. Walker Meetz
>Soulslinger; Dr. Walker Meetz Thomas Thorn Meetz Frank Heiss; Silent Movie;
>Gizz TV & Walker; Bizz O.D.; X-911 / 9 / 96 / Jungle Sky / $7
>>
>>Electro Phunk / 611 Grooves; RAC; Stem; OSC; SEM; Uberzone; Africa
>Bambaataa & the Solsonic Force; The Techfunkers; Anoesis / 10 / 96? /
>Adrenalin / $7
>>
>>Super Ape Inna Jungle / Lee Perry featuring Mad Professor; Douggie Digital
>& Juggler / 10 / 95 / Ariwa Sounds / $7
>>
>>plug in & turn on x.2 (2 CD) / Evolve Now; Deep Space Network; Adham
>Shaikh; Sub Dub; Woob; Human Mesh Dance; Cabaret Voltaire; Seti; Mysteries
>of Science; The Drum Club; Terre Thaemlitz; Omicron; Prototype 909 / 18 /=
 94
>/ Instinct / $10
>>
>>Planet Dub (2 CD) / 100th Monkey; The Power Steppers; Silicon Drum; A.N.R.
>featuring Roots Lepkie; Hempolics; Children of the Bong; Full Moon
>Scientist; The Outsider meets Jah Works; Astralasia; Eat Static; Rootsman;
>Strangebrew; Alien Progeny; The Disciples; Alpha and Omega; the Rhythmites=
 /
>18 / 96 / Mammoth / Planet Dog / $8
>>
>>Nothing To Lose (Single) / S=B9Express / 9 / 91 / Sire / $1
>>
>>Songs of a Dead Dreamer / DJ Spooky / 16 / 96 / Asphodel / $10
>>
>>found sound / Spooky / 16 / 96 / A&M / $8
>>
>>Sub Dub / Sub Dub12 / 96 / Instinct Ambient / $8
>>
>>DJ Allstarz: In the Mix I=8BTaylor / Central Fire; The Crystal Method;=
 Libra
>Presents Taylor; Round Trip; Freaky Chakra; Drift; Futura; Sugar;=
 Skylab2000
>/ 11 / 95 / City of Angels / $6
>>
>>Trance Europe Express 4 (2 CD) / Deadstock; Fluke; Bytesize Nuns; Vulva;
>Rue East; Solcyc; LFO; Coldcut; Chemical Brothers; Rootless; Depth Charge;
>Node; A Guy Named Gerald; Hex; Redagain P; Acid Junkies; Miss DJax; Skylab
>vs DeLuxe; Future Perfect; Lava Lava; Move D; Alaska; Underworld / 24 / 96?
>/ BMG / $10
>>
>>Trip Hop Acid Phunk, Volume One: Continuous Mix by DJ Hardware / Darkside
>of the Shroom; John Debo; Housebailiffs; X-Calibur; Southside Reverb;
>Central Fire; Bassbin Twins; Peter Tall / 9 / 95 / Adrenalin / $7
>>
>>Ritual of Life / An Accident in Paradise (Singles) / Vath, Sven / 11 / 94=
 /
>Warner Bros / $3
>>
>>White Zombie Presents Supersexy Swingin=B9 Sounds / White Zombie / 10 / 96=
 /
>Geffen / $5
>>
>>Journeys by DJ: Justin Robertson Presents CD Scape (2 CD) / Folk=
 Implosion;
>Jeepbeat Collective; Req; Box Saga; Yellow Sox; Morels Grooves; Marshall
>Jefferson; Armando; Gabrielle; Octagon Man; T Power; Larceny; Lionrock;
>Redsnapper; Source Direct; The Electric Family; Club Heroes; Dajae;=
 Cristian
>Vogel; HMC; Green Velvet; Hot Lizard; Slam; Sleuth; Soundenforcer; Fix; Dan
>Curtin; Insync; S.T. Files; Ballistic Brothers; DJ Shadow; Chroma Obscura /
>35 / 96 / Music Unites / $15
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>bil
>>bdwyer@grove.ufl.edu
>>
>>
>
>


 -=20
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 19:48:00 1998
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From: Alex Mouton <parch@kzsu.Stanford.EDU>
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To: dchung@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Friday, Jan 30th numinous collective of SLO presents

ICE

NANDO, JORGE REYNA, and MR.ANNAND of planet 9 LA
SPACEBOY of NUMINOUS and ALEKS of DOONSDAY KRU

house trance and breaks from 10pm to 6am
safe secure location in San Luis Obispo, ~3 hrs south of SF

10$ at the door

for mor info 805.594.5964

see you all there =) #sfraves massive!

meeks

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 19:57:05 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-22 14:32:31 EST, you write:

> music-lovin raver gurus.

speaking of, does anyone have any beta on Freaky Chakra?

tanks, LaurenG.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 20:00:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:58:02 -0500
To: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
From: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
Cc: "SFRAVES SFRAVES" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 10:44 AM +0000 1/22/98, * sherry * wrote:

>     I just bought it yesterday and I have started reading it and plan to
>finish is on the plane to London as I go off to study abroad for a
>semester.  As far as I can tell  I think it will be an ok movie....hell
>after that HACKERS movie what's stopping this!!!

oh yeah, hackers was baaaaaaaaad, really really bad...  dear god i STILL
cringe...

regarding doug's experience, i just meant that he partied a lot and spent
some time hanging out with some pretty bizarre people.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."

		--from The History of Magic

do-reeeeee
http://dori.space
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres

-------------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 20:05:53 1998
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Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
To: luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com (Dori)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:08:18 -0800 (PST)
Cc: mercury@liquidmercury.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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In-Reply-To: <v04003a20b0ed551c1416@[207.168.222.15]> from "Dori" at Jan 22, 98 02:58:02 pm
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Yeah, not a great movie, unfortunately I and most of my friends are
computer geeks so we had to laugh when they talked about what a killer
refresh rate the notebook had. :)

Pretty cool soundtrack tho..

Dori wrote:
> 
> At 10:44 AM +0000 1/22/98, * sherry * wrote:
> 
> >     I just bought it yesterday and I have started reading it and plan to
> >finish is on the plane to London as I go off to study abroad for a
> >semester.  As far as I can tell  I think it will be an ok movie....hell
> >after that HACKERS movie what's stopping this!!!
> 
> oh yeah, hackers was baaaaaaaaad, really really bad...  dear god i STILL
> cringe...
> 
> regarding doug's experience, i just meant that he partied a lot and spent
> some time hanging out with some pretty bizarre people.
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> "If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
> you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
> an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."
> 
> 		--from The History of Magic
> 
> do-reeeeee
> http://dori.space
> http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 



                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 20:54:39 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:52:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2
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I'm with you Todd. Although not my normal listening
choice. I thought the track selection and mixing was 
great. They are playing together at a special Spundae
@1015 Folsom on Feb 1st might be well worth checking 
out.


Layne




---Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com wrote:
>
> 
> Hello-
> 
> Has anybody listened to the double CD,
Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2.
> I just got done listening to both CD's (westcoast
edition, eastcoast
> edition) and I was wondering what other people
thought of these CD's.
> 
> Personally I love both of them.  The westcoast CD
is more trancy, with some
> older songs mixed in with some good songs from the
recent year.  The
> eastcoast CD is laidback, breakbeat stuff.  Not
usually my type of thing,
> but the choice of tracks are excellent and I'm
turning into a convert.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted feedback if there's any out
there :)     (I'm sure
> there is!)
> 
> -Todd
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 21:36:28 1998
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Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 10:44:15 -0000
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From: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
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>it ain't bad for a story, no - and if you get the real point of it (that
>it's not a big glory story about the joys of raving, it's about the line
>where reality ends and whatever else begins, and where that line IS) then
>it's cool...
>
>most of all, it's a fun read tho...  except that, uh, well, it made me want
>to go out and ingest in a serious way afterwards... in fact, i think that
>book is what kicked off my um, well, SUBSTANTIAL phase this summer - shit,
>if i could have either all the stuff i ate after reading that book or all
>the money i SPENT on that stuff i ate back, i'd be a happy camper...
>
>i think it's gonna be a fun movie, to be honest - anxious to see who'll be
>playing the roles, and i'm not that concerned about it being a movie,
>because we can all safely admit that the definition of "underground" has
>changed a helluva lot since "back in the day" - it's not like you still
>can't throw a party and not invite the idiots who'll soon be raving due to
>a movie (funny how "underground" sort of translates to "elitist" if you
>think about it, selective invitation of groovy people) - unfortunately, the
>plot of the story or its characters isn't going to lead to superpositive
>representation, but hey, it's going to be interesting - and how the hell
>they'll do it without having scientology sue anyone is beyond me...
>they've already threatened, i think, over the thinly masked references in
>the book.  fuck it - go get the book - if you rely on public transportation
>to get to work and whatnot, it's a good thing to take with you. 



     I just bought it yesterday and I have started reading it and plan to
finish is on the plane to London as I go off to study abroad for a 
semester.  As far as I can tell  I think it will be an ok movie....hell
after that HACKERS movie what's stopping this!!!

> besides,
>doug rushkoff DOES have plenty of experience under his belt.


     Really, like what?  I've never heard of him before, of course I not
an avid book reader either...Any other good books he's written that you
would recommend??


Sherry
---------------------------------------------------------> mercury
mercury@liquidmercury.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 21:36:48 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:11:46 -0800
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Someone sent this to me once, but put it in a paragraph, with no explanation
of what it meant. Sounded psycotic! Be afraid.... ;)

bunny

steve wrote:

> Dom Moreci wrote:
> >
> > A list of actual English subtitles used in films made in Hong Kong:
> >
> > 1.  I am damned unsatisfied to be killed in this way.
> > 2.  Fatty, you with your thick face have hurt my instep.
> > 3.  Gun wounds again?
> > 4.  Same old rules: no eyes, no groin.
> > 5.  A normal person wouldn't steal pituitaries.
> > 6.  Damn, I'll burn you into a BBQ chicken!
> > 7.  Take my advice, or I'll spank you without pants.
> > 8.  Who gave you the nerve to get killed here?
> > 9.  Quiet or I'll blow your throat up.
> > 10. You always use violence. I should've ordered glutinous rice chicken.
> > 11. I'll fire aimlessly if you don't come out!
> > 12. You daring lousy guy.
> > 13. Beat him out of recognizable shape!
> > 14. I have been scared shitless too much lately.
> > 15. I got knife scars more than the number of your leg's hair!
> > 16. Beware! Your bones are going to be disconnected.
> > 17. The bullets inside are very hot. Why do I feel so cold?
> >
> > And finally...
> > 18. How can you use my intestines as a gift?
>
> --
> And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
> Before you buy:
> http://www.compare.net/
> Information is Power






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Sasha and John Digweed are at VSF on Sunday Feb 1st. Should be
brilliant! I'll be there with an black O2 hat on. (Go SGI!)

If you haven't bought Northern Exposure 2 from MoS, get it!!! Sasha's
mix is beyond brilliant! Artists include Gus Gus, Fluke, Uberzone,
Prana, Spooky, Sven Vath, Speedy J, Humate... beautiful!

bunny

PS. I have no affiliation with VSF, just saw the listing...




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 21:37:17 1998
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To: Scott Upper <scupps@earthlink.net>
CC: SF RAVES MAILING LIST <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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It's a cool site! Love the alien with the magnifying glass!

bunny

Scott Upper wrote:

> Hey Brothers and Sisters Up North:
> Hi.
> I posted an invitation to my rave toy website Spinlolly last week.
> I just wanted to say thanks to you guys up north for not FLAMING the heck
> out of me.
> I was really new to the lists, and didn't realize that my posting came
> across as an unsolicited advertisement.  It certainly was not meant to be
> that.
> (Rest assured, the Midwest and Boston FREAKED on me - but then again, I
> guess they are not really into "candy and toys - spread the good vibe thing"
> over there.)
>
> I just want to clarify in case anyone was wondering...nobody paid us to do
> this.
> We are just a couple of (starving) guys who really love rave toys and
> electronic music, and decided to try to make rave toys available on-line
> instead of only at parties.
>
> I'd love any feedback you could give me on the site.
> Major whopping peace to ya'.
> Scott
> P.S.  Raving in San Fransisco beats the hell out of raving in L.A. lately.
> Too many gangsters messin' up the vibe.
> ********************************
> Scott Upper
> Spinlolly
> ...toys and tunes from outer cyber-space.
> (310) 452-GLOW  :)
> http://www.spinlolly.com
> rave@spinlolly.com
> **********************************






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:04:50 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:06:02 -0800
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Although I haven't heard the CD I have heard Sasha spinning live and she is
awesome. Mad Props to tight fem fatal DJ's.
MooK<><
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com <Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 11:07 AM
Subject: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2


>
>Hello-
>
>Has anybody listened to the double CD, Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2.
<snip>
>Anyway, just wanted feedback if there's any out there :)     (I'm sure
>there is!)
>
>-Todd
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:05:08 1998
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To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this, even if I
did write it).

Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few minutes of
research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having to deal
with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for Phencyclidine
(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready for the
effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new effects... 
especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's just say,
you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the past, and
PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience (higher
percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable reactions).

Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I didn't
take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine and
Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K, and 1 hit
of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30 minutes later
(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a bad time
(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half hit was
ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because everything
looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was admitted
for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of them
cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of K (which
it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E.  Swore
he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...

Some crap I put together and assorted comments...

A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing number of
"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the late
sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became obvious
quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people selling PCP
and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD led to
the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution impossible.

Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage of very
er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking out of
handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that completely,
but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and reduced
sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down" from a bad
PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest explorers. 

PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it to my
cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a lot easier
to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the reason PCP is
no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of being "put
under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half psychotic
episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of sleeping
and eating, both of which require little brain function... most people end
up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc. 

Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
(sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered aurally
(often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a street slang
for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing your ass
off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to as "that
mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is going off",
jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so remember
to keep those fluids coming...) 

There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects of PCP,
and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known side
effects (listed elsewhere in this post). 

Some other throw ins...

FROM HYPERREAL.ORG

Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
448-455

.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then a short
history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog. 

Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present prominent body
image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background of
sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization, "sheer
nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel inebriated, are
usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience. 
Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their bodies and
are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not perceive
pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
(especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those produced
by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients. Perhaps the
hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and dissociative
properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police officers.
This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by standing in
front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb into a
polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or cliffs.
The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome mutilation
of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser pulled
out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her baby in
cooking oil 

(andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate this type
of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this drug...). 

There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both with and
without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug users
who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.

Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially comatose. 
Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short duration of
coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated with
higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
occasionally persisting as long as 10 days). 

The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most hallucinogens are
ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.

And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.

----------- phencyclidine/PCP ------------
hyperactive_LOC      anxiety/nervous/agitated/stimulated/excited
disassociation       blank stare/unresponsive to pain/catatonia/"sitting
coma"
nystagmus            bidirectional, vertical and horizontal
hyposecretion        dry mouth/mucous membranes
wet_skin             diaphoresis/sweating/perspiring/hyperhydrosis/moist
skin
miosis               normal or constricted pupils OR
mydriasis            dilated  (variable response)
faciculations        twitching muscles
hypertension         high blood pressure (at lower doses)
hallucinations       visual and auditory
disorientation       confusion/delirium/incoherance/psychosis
                     psychosis may be prolonged/detachment/violent  
                     behavior/unpredictable or paranoid, combative,  
                     dissociated sensory input(including pain)  
                     impared ability to estimate 30 second time interval
tachycardia          rapid heart/pulse
hyperpnea            rapid respirations/hyperventilation/tachypnea


>From a personal site hailing the finer points of the drug...

"As stated above, the effects are mainly determined by the user. Some
people experience paranoia, others have fits of rage, and others have
great euphoria. Mood alterations are always accompanied with time,
perception and visual hallucinations. Some people have tried the drug
and do not agree with it, so I do not approve of the practice of telling
people that your PCP is THC or some other hallucinogen. These drugs
are quite potent, so use them with a great deal of respect (I think that
overdoses have CP the bad reputation that follows it today) as bummers
from this drug have occurred often."




And finally:

If you still have doubts about PCP, just mention it within earshot of
anybody who has ever worked in an ICU/ER.  Although some are a little too
funky to believe, their stories are real.

Why the hell would anybody want to flip an elephant anyway?

Finally, in giving everything a voice, I did find this (paragraph below, I
start to spin some dumb yarn here)... which attempts to chip away at the
VIOLENT REACTION MYTH (I personally have witnessed hundreds of people take
acid, and seen three bad trips with only one requiring restraint... I've
seen tens of people take PCP, and seen three bad trips, one of them
requiring police intervention to subdue the individual who was throwing
trashcans and punched several good friends while screaming
"motherfucker... ha ha...  motherfucker . you want some?.... hahah!!!",
the guy did seem sane before taking two hits off a dipped Sherman... you
make the call.  The cops wouldn't even approach him when they saw him
until three more units of backup came (2 cops per car, LAPD stylee), and
he did not go peacefully and did not react in a sane fashion when police
pulled their weapons and asked him to stop... so they chased him down,
kicked his ass, and bound his wrists with two sets of handcuffs and tied
his feet while he passionatly resisted the whole time).  Nobody got upset
about the police treatment either, he was downright scary.



This is excerpted w/o permission from _Drug Abuse and Drug Abuse
Research_, an annual report to congress by the U.S. Dept. of Health and
Human Services, pg. 153. (1991) 

        "There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that
        have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well
        as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel.  Both aspects
concern
        the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive 
        behavior.  There are reports of increased aggressiveness and 
        'super-human' strength that develop in some people who take
        phencyclidine.

        Recent studies, including those of men arrested for criminal
        activity in Washington D.C. and New York City (Wish 1986) and
        evaluations of published clinical reports of phencyclidine
        intoxication (Brecher et al. 1988), indicate that if 
        phencyclidine induces violent, criminal behavior, it does so only
        extremely infrequently.  

        Although Wish (1986) noted that most men who had urines positive
        for phencyclidine were younger than those who had taken no drugs
        or other drugs, their crimes were likely to be __less aggressive__
        than the crimes of those who had not taken phencyclidine.  
        [emphasis added -ma]  Khajawall et al. (1982) found no
        difference in the behavior of clients admitted for phencyclidine
        detoxification and those admitted for opioid detoxification.
__Thus,
        phencylidine-induced aggression appears to be a rare phenomenon,
        if it occurs at all__. [emph -ma]"


Well... I'm done.  Gotta go.

Peace,
Andy

p.s.	Last note... on my quicky cut and paste and anecdote adventure, I
found this definition in a list of DRUG SLANG (which actually contained
Domex, but not "elephant flip") at http://www.addictions.org/slang.htm

Rave                    - party designed to enhance a hallucinogenic 
                          experience through music and behavior



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:07:01 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:09:50 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the book
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i got the book for my birthday last week and started reading it after you
guys reminded me.
overall, the writing is pretty bad (so far).   the story-telling is
awkward and uninteresting.

i haven't even gotten far enough to know what's really happening in the
story (as far as the timetravel & government conspiracies that are supposed
to happen later in the story), but  the way rushkoff describes the action
just doesn't make me care about the character or the story.

the main character seems like a dork, but not an interesting dork.  even
"less than zero" is interesting next to it, with its intentionally flat &
2D characters.  I guess because rushkoff is trying to create an exciting
atmosphere and falls way short, but b.e. ellis meant to create flat
characters and made them orgasmically dull.

i think in a way, that raving isn't meant to be written about.

ok then, that's my literary review for the week.
back to the mixtapes.  next tape review:  Deepfog's "The Deep"... pulsing
sexy house.

b))merang




>>it ain't bad for a story, no - and if you get the real point of it (that
>>it's not a big glory story about the joys of raving, it's about the line
>>where reality ends and whatever else begins, and where that line IS) then
>>it's cool...
>>
>>most of all, it's a fun read tho...  except that, uh, well, it made me want
>>to go out and ingest in a serious way afterwards... in fact, i think that
>>book is what kicked off my um, well, SUBSTANTIAL phase this summer - shit,
>>if i could have either all the stuff i ate after reading that book or all
>>the money i SPENT on that stuff i ate back, i'd be a happy camper...
>>
>>i think it's gonna be a fun movie, to be honest - anxious to see who'll be
>>playing the roles, and i'm not that concerned about it being a movie,
>>because we can all safely admit that the definition of "underground" has
>>changed a helluva lot since "back in the day" - it's not like you still
>>can't throw a party and not invite the idiots who'll soon be raving due to
>>a movie (funny how "underground" sort of translates to "elitist" if you
>>think about it, selective invitation of groovy people) - unfortunately, the
>>plot of the story or its characters isn't going to lead to superpositive
>>representation, but hey, it's going to be interesting - and how the hell
>>they'll do it without having scientology sue anyone is beyond me...
>>they've already threatened, i think, over the thinly masked references in
>>the book.  fuck it - go get the book - if you rely on public transportation
>>to get to work and whatnot, it's a good thing to take with you.
>
>
>
>     I just bought it yesterday and I have started reading it and plan to
>finish is on the plane to London as I go off to study abroad for a
>semester.  As far as I can tell  I think it will be an ok movie....hell
>after that HACKERS movie what's stopping this!!!
>
>> besides,
>>doug rushkoff DOES have plenty of experience under his belt.
>
>
>     Really, like what?  I've never heard of him before, of course I not
>an avid book reader either...Any other good books he's written that you
>would recommend??
>
>
>Sherry
>---------------------------------------------------------> mercury
>mercury@liquidmercury.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:08:29 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-22-98 10:44

Have any of you read "Idoru" by William Gibson?  That is another good book
written for the future generation.  I plan on picking up the Ecstasy Club to
peruse it but I won't get my hopes up.  

Whenever people write about our scene (I've been around kinda a while, since we
the question of what to call this new music), inevitably some intangible
nuances are lost.  

Please post your reviews in the future.  Thanks.

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"...it's a spiritual thing...a body thing...a soul thing..."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:09:23 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Terri E. Young" <tyyoung@ucdavis.edu>
Cc: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: HEY Music lovers!!
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:10:36 -0800
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>>
>>werks like a twelve inch / Soul Oddity; Spacetime Continuum; 777; Freaky
>Chakra; Steve Fisk; Ben Neill / 10 / 96 / Caroline / Astalwerks / $7
>>

I got this one. Very trancy. If your into trance. It's pretty good. Not
great though. I could be worth $7 buck if your really into trance.
MooK<><

-----Original Message-----
From: Terri E. Young <tyyoung@ucdavis.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 11:31 AM
Subject: HEY Music lovers!!


HIIIIIIDy HO Cowboys!!  Does anyone have any of the following CDs?  I have a
one or two which are good -
a lot of them look like they might be good, but I want to KNOW before I buy
because
I am an anal information slut. : )

Thanks all you music-lovin raver gurus.
muchisimoamor
Terri




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:18:20 1998
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To: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2
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Hey Mook,

Sasha is a man! 

See what assumptions do?

;)

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

Mook wrote:
> 
> Although I haven't heard the CD I have heard Sasha spinning live and she is
> awesome. Mad Props to tight fem fatal DJ's.
> MooK<><
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com <Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com>
> To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 11:07 AM
> Subject: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2
> 
> >
> >Hello-
> >
> >Has anybody listened to the double CD, Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2.
> <snip>
> >Anyway, just wanted feedback if there's any out there :)     (I'm sure
> >there is!)
> >
> >-Todd
> >
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:20:45 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2
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Mad props to fem fatal DJ's always, however, Sasha
is a man silly.

Layne



---Mook <mcarey@triad.com> wrote:
>
> Although I haven't heard the CD I have heard Sasha
spinning live and she is
> awesome. Mad Props to tight fem fatal DJ's.
> MooK<><

 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:21:18 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:22:32 -0800
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Oops I heard HIM on  a real audio "live" broadcast so I just mad an ass out
of me and upmtion

MooK<><
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
To: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>; sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2


>Hey Mook,
>
>Sasha is a man!
>
>See what assumptions do?
>
>;)
>
>rob.
>http://www.citizenmag.com
>
>Mook wrote:
>>
>> Although I haven't heard the CD I have heard Sasha spinning live and she
is
>> awesome. Mad Props to tight fem fatal DJ's.
>> MooK<><
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com <Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com>
>> To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 11:07 AM
>> Subject: Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure 2
>>
>> >
>> >Hello-
>> >
>> >Has anybody listened to the double CD, Sasha/Digweed Northern Exposure
2.
>> <snip>
>> >Anyway, just wanted feedback if there's any out there :)     (I'm sure
>> >there is!)
>> >
>> >-Todd
>> >
>> >
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:22:58 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:20:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: BSP, sort of, speaking of MoS...
To: bmeier@pacbell.net, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Hey Bruce,

Actually, its at 1015 partner 8) wouldn't want you
to end up at the wrong place.

layne





---"Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> Sasha and John Digweed are at VSF on Sunday Feb
1st. Should be
> brilliant! I'll be there with an black O2 hat on.
(Go SGI!)
> 
> If you haven't bought Northern Exposure 2 from MoS,
get it!!! Sasha's
> mix is beyond brilliant! Artists include Gus Gus,
Fluke, Uberzone,
> Prana, Spooky, Sven Vath, Speedy J, Humate...
beautiful!
> 
> bunny
> 
> PS. I have no affiliation with VSF, just saw the
listing...
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:24:40 1998
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> I have heard Sasha spinning live and she is
>awesome. Mad Props to tight fem fatal DJ's.
>MooK<><

Were you looking at the same person I've seen spin?  Sasha is a guy.  Just
wanted to clear this up :)

-Todd



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:24:44 1998
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To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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>to climb into a
>polar bear's cave to take a picture...


them eskimos git plum crazy once ya give 'em a little dust.

b))merang



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:36:31 1998
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Subject: Found keys at planet rock
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Hey all you ravers I found a set of keys and pager at Planet Rock.  I found
the owner of the pager, but if any of you know someone please let me know...



just a thought

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 22:42:25 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, tyyoung@ucdavis.edu
Subject: Re: HEY Music lovers!!
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>>>Buhloone Mindstate / De La Soul / 15 / 93 / Tommy Boy / $5


excellent albumm..... 3 ft high and rising is better in my opinion 
though :)
byebye
Philip


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 23:13:15 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:10:04 -0800 (PST)
From: sNIKers <xtcin69@rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: XTCin69@aol.com
Subject: Re: Proposition 143
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PROPOSITION 143:  YAY!!!

  Even though Rob DISSED me by saying he doesn't know who I am, I am
in total support of this!  Just think, at 1:43 AM, everyone can unify
for LuV!  But I was think, why does it just have to be 1:43 AM?  I say
that at ANYTIME its 1:43, AM or PM, you should hug, kiss, stare
lovingly into his/her eyes, whatever, just spread the LOVE!  Everyone
needs to feel loved, it truely is the BESTEST feeling in the world. 
We all know that feeling we get when that special someone is around
us, and just can't help but SMILE!  (I know I do! I hope you know who
you are!)  Pretty soon, you'll find out that its ALWAYS 1:43 in your
heart, and when you have nothing but love, you don't need anything else!

PROP 143!!!!  Make it YOUR life!

HugZ, LuV, and PLUR-y type things!
snIKers ;^)

PS-Much LuV goes out to Dj MarQ, Natasha, Paul*E*Wog, Geoff, Jeremy,
and Jenn Jenn!
PPS-Supa Special LuV goes out to TeKnODiVa!!!!

143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143143

---TeKnODiVa  wrote:
>
>   HEllo everyone!! This is ROb's idea, but since he won't post it I
get to do
> it for him =)~*  Ok
> 
>        Proposition 143:
> 
>     At 1:43 a.m. you must hug everyone near you to spread the love
and unite
> in mind, body, soul, and harmony (so far so good, Rob?)  To keep the
good
> vibes flowing and spread joy to everyone, whether you know them or
not. 
> 
>    IT's easier than PLUR......
> 
>       VOTE YES ON PROP 143!!!!!
> 
>    (now we can start a campaign... T-shirts, buttons, posters,
rallies... all
> in favor of Prop 143)
> 
>        <3 <3 <3spreading the love <3 <3 <3 
>                        'trice the tekno diva
> 
>     "The magic of first love is our ingnorance that it could never
end."
> 
>     "What, are those dogs?? I must be tripping.. NO.. THEy"RE GOATS!!"
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 23:24:53 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Yes, I read the information about PCP on Hyperreal. Still, when you mix
to drugs you get a completly differnet experience. In example,
candyflipping, hippieflipping, kittyflipping,roboflipping,dramflipping.
when you candy flip it doesn't feel like e and it doesn't feel like
acid. The takes away tons of the visuals and the paranoia effect of LSD
and LSD makes you peak about a million times on e and makes the e last
as long as the acid. The effect of PCP&E would have to be something else
all together.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

AndyW wrote:
> 
> To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this, even if I
> did write it).
> 
> Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few minutes of
> research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having to deal
> with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for Phencyclidine
> (PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready for the
> effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new effects...
> especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's just say,
> you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the past, and
> PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience (higher
> percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable reactions).
> 
> Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I didn't
> take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine and
> Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
> considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
> sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K, and 1 hit
> of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30 minutes later
> (the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a bad time
> (with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half hit was
> ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
> overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because everything
> looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was admitted
> for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of them
> cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
> decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of K (which
> it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E.  Swore
> he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
> 
> Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
> 
> A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing number of
> "LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the late
> sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became obvious
> quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
> generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people selling PCP
> and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD led to
> the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution impossible.
> 
> Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage of very
> er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking out of
> handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that completely,
> but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and reduced
> sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down" from a bad
> PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest explorers.
> 
> PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it to my
> cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a lot easier
> to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the reason PCP is
> no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of being "put
> under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half psychotic
> episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of sleeping
> and eating, both of which require little brain function... most people end
> up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc.
> 
> Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
> (sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered aurally
> (often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a street slang
> for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing your ass
> off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to as "that
> mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is going off",
> jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so remember
> to keep those fluids coming...)
> 
> There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects of PCP,
> and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known side
> effects (listed elsewhere in this post).
> 
> Some other throw ins...
> 
> FROM HYPERREAL.ORG
> 
> Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
> 448-455
> 
> .. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
> reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then a short
> history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog.
> 
> Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present prominent body
> image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background of
> sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization, "sheer
> nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel inebriated, are
> usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
> Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their bodies and
> are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not perceive
> pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
> (especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
> hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those produced
> by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
> Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients. Perhaps the
> hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
> strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and dissociative
> properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
> hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police officers.
> This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by standing in
> front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb into a
> polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or cliffs.
> The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome mutilation
> of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser pulled
> out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her baby in
> cooking oil
> 
> (andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
> individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate this type
> of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this drug...).
> 
> There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both with and
> without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug users
> who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.
> 
> Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially comatose.
> Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short duration of
> coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated with
> higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
> occasionally persisting as long as 10 days).
> 
> The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most hallucinogens are
> ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.
> 
> And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.
> 
> ----------- phencyclidine/PCP ------------
> hyperactive_LOC      anxiety/nervous/agitated/stimulated/excited
> disassociation       blank stare/unresponsive to pain/catatonia/"sitting
> coma"
> nystagmus            bidirectional, vertical and horizontal
> hyposecretion        dry mouth/mucous membranes
> wet_skin             diaphoresis/sweating/perspiring/hyperhydrosis/moist
> skin
> miosis               normal or constricted pupils OR
> mydriasis            dilated  (variable response)
> faciculations        twitching muscles
> hypertension         high blood pressure (at lower doses)
> hallucinations       visual and auditory
> disorientation       confusion/delirium/incoherance/psychosis
>                      psychosis may be prolonged/detachment/violent
>                      behavior/unpredictable or paranoid, combative,
>                      dissociated sensory input(including pain)
>                      impared ability to estimate 30 second time interval
> tachycardia          rapid heart/pulse
> hyperpnea            rapid respirations/hyperventilation/tachypnea
> 
> >From a personal site hailing the finer points of the drug...
> 
> "As stated above, the effects are mainly determined by the user. Some
> people experience paranoia, others have fits of rage, and others have
> great euphoria. Mood alterations are always accompanied with time,
> perception and visual hallucinations. Some people have tried the drug
> and do not agree with it, so I do not approve of the practice of telling
> people that your PCP is THC or some other hallucinogen. These drugs
> are quite potent, so use them with a great deal of respect (I think that
> overdoses have CP the bad reputation that follows it today) as bummers
> from this drug have occurred often."
> 
> And finally:
> 
> If you still have doubts about PCP, just mention it within earshot of
> anybody who has ever worked in an ICU/ER.  Although some are a little too
> funky to believe, their stories are real.
> 
> Why the hell would anybody want to flip an elephant anyway?
> 
> Finally, in giving everything a voice, I did find this (paragraph below, I
> start to spin some dumb yarn here)... which attempts to chip away at the
> VIOLENT REACTION MYTH (I personally have witnessed hundreds of people take
> acid, and seen three bad trips with only one requiring restraint... I've
> seen tens of people take PCP, and seen three bad trips, one of them
> requiring police intervention to subdue the individual who was throwing
> trashcans and punched several good friends while screaming
> "motherfucker... ha ha...  motherfucker . you want some?.... hahah!!!",
> the guy did seem sane before taking two hits off a dipped Sherman... you
> make the call.  The cops wouldn't even approach him when they saw him
> until three more units of backup came (2 cops per car, LAPD stylee), and
> he did not go peacefully and did not react in a sane fashion when police
> pulled their weapons and asked him to stop... so they chased him down,
> kicked his ass, and bound his wrists with two sets of handcuffs and tied
> his feet while he passionatly resisted the whole time).  Nobody got upset
> about the police treatment either, he was downright scary.
> 
> This is excerpted w/o permission from _Drug Abuse and Drug Abuse
> Research_, an annual report to congress by the U.S. Dept. of Health and
> Human Services, pg. 153. (1991)
> 
>         "There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that
>         have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well
>         as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel.  Both aspects
> concern
>         the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive
>         behavior.  There are reports of increased aggressiveness and
>         'super-human' strength that develop in some people who take
>         phencyclidine.
> 
>         Recent studies, including those of men arrested for criminal
>         activity in Washington D.C. and New York City (Wish 1986) and
>         evaluations of published clinical reports of phencyclidine
>         intoxication (Brecher et al. 1988), indicate that if
>         phencyclidine induces violent, criminal behavior, it does so only
>         extremely infrequently.
> 
>         Although Wish (1986) noted that most men who had urines positive
>         for phencyclidine were younger than those who had taken no drugs
>         or other drugs, their crimes were likely to be __less aggressive__
>         than the crimes of those who had not taken phencyclidine.
>         [emphasis added -ma]  Khajawall et al. (1982) found no
>         difference in the behavior of clients admitted for phencyclidine
>         detoxification and those admitted for opioid detoxification.
> __Thus,
>         phencylidine-induced aggression appears to be a rare phenomenon,
>         if it occurs at all__. [emph -ma]"
> 
> Well... I'm done.  Gotta go.
> 
> Peace,
> Andy
> 
> p.s.    Last note... on my quicky cut and paste and anecdote adventure, I
> found this definition in a list of DRUG SLANG (which actually contained
> Domex, but not "elephant flip") at http://www.addictions.org/slang.htm
> 
> Rave                    - party designed to enhance a hallucinogenic
>                           experience through music and behavior

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 22 23:27:55 1998
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From: CheerioHN <CheerioHN@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ea35ce35.34c7d0b8@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:05:25 EST
To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
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I haven't read Estacy Club yet, but i have read the book Ecstacy by Irvine
Welsh, and if you liked the movie Trainspotting, this is nothing like it, but
its oddly twisted and mindwarping, i couldn't put it down! He has a couple
other books also, im reading another of his right now, hes magnificent, it
takes awhile to figure out his writeing because he doesn't use quotes, which i
guess is normal in scotland, i dunno, its a good book, a little bit
disturbing, but worth reading! 
lots of love and books!
JiL :o)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 00:14:17 1998
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From: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
To: "'dirtylist@west.net'" <dirtylist@west.net>,
  "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Rave culture documentary...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:15:03 -0800
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I uncovered this in a Nine Inch Nails list...
Daily news by Paul H. Nulsen.  :)

>Reiss Documentary.
> 
>Jonathan Reiss (directed many NIN videos) is working on a documentary
>tentatively titled "Better Living Through Circuitry" about the rave
>scene. 

No date was present but I will keep you peeps informed!

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

Rick Fish
AirLink Communications, Inc.
www.airlink.com
rickf@airlink.com




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 00:29:09 1998
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Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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Since we're talking about idiotic things to mix with e. . .

Backflip -- pop an e and then jump off a building, bridge, or cliff.
	Buzz: helluva rush for 9.8 meters per second per second.
	Side effects: none reported . . .

Duckyflip -- eat some e and try and ride on a live duck.
	Buzz: frustration, but you may end up with a pet duck!
	Side effects: peck marks.

Whiskeyflip -- self explanatory.
	Buzz: who the hell remembers?
	Side effects: most likely you will dehydrate 100% and turn to
		dust.

Pistolflipping -- buy some bunk e from the biggest, shadiest dealer at
the party. Complain.
	Buzz: whatever it was that you ACTUALLY bought. Probly asprin.
	Side effects: blood loss, possible bruising.

Nerdflip -- e and then sit around playing computer games.
	Buzz: I'LL SHOW THOSE DAMN ALIENS!  I'LL SHOW 'EM! etc.
	Side effects: dorky glasses may suddenly appear on your face.

Skincrawlflip -- e and go to an insurance seminar. Sit through the
whole thing without fidgiting.
	Buzz: squandered.
	Side effects: admitting you actually did this.

Workflip -- e and go to work.
	Buzz: best day of work ever.
	Side effects: best day of work ever.

Okay,
Steve.

Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> Yes, I read the information about PCP on Hyperreal. Still, when you mix
> to drugs you get a completly differnet experience.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 00:31:25 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:22:01
From: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: MoS - kill kill kill
CC: dsp@raven.dartmouth.edu
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>  From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com> 
>  Subject: Re: Resurrection 

>  Hey Minh, 

>  Ministry of Sound is not just clubs, far from 1015 or 
>  SoundFactory, Ministry of Sound has produced some of 
>  the best DJ's in the world. Sure its about clubs, but 
>  its also about consistently bomb ass 
>  music. The clubs I went to in Ibiza were absolutely 
>  crazy fun hi ~elena~ there isn't a club in the U.S. 
>  that even comes close. (IMHO) DJ Doubt is dope Marc, 
>  Ground Zero I'll see you there. 

Ministry of Sound is the biggest leeching shitty lowest common denominator posey overpriced bunch of arse that has ever deigned to grace that city of insanity that is London.
The owner is an aristocratic ex-stockbroker who is blatantly proud that he's completely in it for the money - selling an image that makes people feel they're "cool" even though MoS most definitely isn't. They have dress codes for fucks sake! It's a beer monster's haven, strictly no illegal substances, dress up in nice checked shirts-lads-on-the-pull and a-line minidresses girls-on-the-piss kind of affair.
I could list tons of crimes against humanity that this putrescent organisation has committed, but I won't go into it here.
Anyone who is proud to have (Mos London) after their name is obviously going to be playing cheesy commercial formularic house. 
And the word on the street is they're going to go bust soon, and not before time.
Ministry of pound sux. Go listen to some decent music. And if you see anyone with a ministry of sound record bag (every 12 year old schoolkid in London) or tasteful black MoS "bomber" jacket then be sure to inform them of their serious error.
Basically it is the most sell-out-tastic pile of toss in the whole of the UK scene - they know it, everyone else knows it and you too should now know it. Avoid.
Rant over
C@weasel.


Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 00:37:53 1998
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From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: cozy ~ friday night trance &  jungle factory party UPDATE  (BP)
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      c       o       z       y

a Trance & Jungle Factory affair
has been moved to Friday night (the 23rd)
This will be an intimate gathering with limited tickets, presale only (200
heads only!)

               OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

We are pleased to introduce
>-=-=->   DJ Trance from Amsterdam, Holland for his Bay Area premiere
The Bass Kru/Flux & Rinse
Vertigo
Thomas Trouble
Annapurna
Chris
b))merang

                OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

All Ages,   $10,    10:45 pm-7am.  The party will be in the Berkeley area,
in a clean, cozy venue.  Tickets available at the Trance & Jungle Factory,
call 510-704-9876 for more details.
Or stop by the store at 2575 telegraph ave in berkeley (one block south of
dwight way)

                OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

I am not throwing this party...please contact the Trance & Jungle Factory
for more info.
thanks,

b))merang



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 00:42:09 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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This is a question mostly for dj's

I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 00:53:10 1998
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From: Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>
To: "'fish1111@pacbell.net'" <fish1111@pacbell.net>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: dj messages?
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:56:27 -0800
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	i'm not a dj... nor do i know much about this stuff... 

	but...

	flatly asking a dj what the message behind their music seems a
lot like asking mark twain what the meaning is behind huck finn...  

	good luck to you..

	--adam


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	fish1111@pacbell.net [SMTP:fish1111@pacbell.net]
> Sent:	Thursday, January 22, 1998 4:47 PM
> To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject:	dj messages?
> 
> This is a question mostly for dj's
> 
> I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
> and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
> often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
> like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
> If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 00:55:02 1998
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Message-Id: <34C7EB29.F7@millenniumpulse.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:58:17 -0800
From: Aeron Oshie <Aeron@millenniumpulse.com>
Reply-To: Aeron@millenniumpulse.com
Organization: Millennium Pulse
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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*********************************************************** 
*         Millennium Pulse Productions Presents:          * 
*                                                         * 
*            ushering in the "Summer of Truth"            * 
*                                                         * 
*              http://www.millenniumpulse.com             * 
***********************************************************

Date: Friday, January 23rd                  Time: 8pm - 3am 

Admission: $ 10.00                                 age: 21+

Millennium Pulse Event
----------------------
Please join us at the next Millennium Pulse Party, as we 
begin the count down to the "Summer of Truth" festival 
for the year 2000 in San Francisco.  Get involved with 
the movement and experience the unique musical vibration 
that is gaining popularity as we progress toward the next
 Millennium.

Music
-----
Featuring a family of Tribal/Middle Eastern/Asian 
influenced Rock bands:  

- 12:30 SUNFUR
- 11pm  Trillian Green
- 10pm  Aeron Oshie Band
- 9pm   Daniel Berkman (African Kora) 

* Tribal Drum Circle (bring your drum to participate)

Artwork/performances
--------------------
Artwork by the Millennium Artist, Mattison Fitzgerald. 
Various performances, dance and art installations will 
be featured throughout the night.  

Location
--------
Cafe Cocomo (Potrero Hills Venue) 
650 Indiana Street, (cross street- Mariposa) 
Potrero Hills, San Francisco 
(there is plenty of parking close by)

Directions
----------
Heading North on 101 take 280 East: 
-> Exit Mariposa St.
-> Turn Right onto Mariposa 
-> Turn Right onto Indiana St. (1st intersection) 
-> Cafe Cocomo on right hand side of street

-or-

>From Downtown on Mission Street take 17th Street East:
-> Turn Right onto Rhode Island
-> Turn Left onto Mariposa
-> Turn Right onto Indiana St. 
-> Cafe Cocomo on right hand side of street

Additional Information
----------------------
For more information checkout our website at:

http://www.millenniumpulse.com
-or-
call 415.265.3455

===============================================================================

Alpha Squids -> Laughing Squid Productions http://www.laughingsquid.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:09:21 1998
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Judge the music yourselves. Listen to their live broadcasts: http://www.ministry-of-sound.com

CAT WEASEL wrote:

> >  From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
> >  Subject: Re: Resurrection
>
> >  Hey Minh,
>
> >  Ministry of Sound is not just clubs, far from 1015 or
> >  SoundFactory, Ministry of Sound has produced some of
> >  the best DJ's in the world. Sure its about clubs, but
> >  its also about consistently bomb ass
> >  music. The clubs I went to in Ibiza were absolutely
> >  crazy fun hi ~elena~ there isn't a club in the U.S.
> >  that even comes close. (IMHO) DJ Doubt is dope Marc,
> >  Ground Zero I'll see you there.
>
> Ministry of Sound is the biggest leeching shitty lowest common denominator posey overpriced bunch of arse that has ever deigned to grace that city of insanity that is London.
> The owner is an aristocratic ex-stockbroker who is blatantly proud that he's completely in it for the money - selling an image that makes people feel they're "cool" even though MoS most definitely isn't. They have dress codes for fucks sake! It's a beer monster's haven, strictly no illegal substances, dress up in nice checked shirts-lads-on-the-pull and a-line minidresses girls-on-the-piss kind of affair.
> I could list tons of crimes against humanity that this putrescent organisation has committed, but I won't go into it here.
> Anyone who is proud to have (Mos London) after their name is obviously going to be playing cheesy commercial formularic house.
> And the word on the street is they're going to go bust soon, and not before time.
> Ministry of pound sux. Go listen to some decent music. And if you see anyone with a ministry of sound record bag (every 12 year old schoolkid in London) or tasteful black MoS "bomber" jacket then be sure to inform them of their serious error.
> Basically it is the most sell-out-tastic pile of toss in the whole of the UK scene - they know it, everyone else knows it and you too should now know it. Avoid.
> Rant over
> C@weasel.
>
> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com



--
"Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:12:08 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:04:22 -0800 (PST)
From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: cozy ~ friday night trance &  jungle factory party UPDATE  (BP)
To: Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Curious is the T&J factory going to be doing parties
every week now? I think his space is kewl and I have
only been to one but it was a nice party...

Macadio 




---Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com> wrote:
>
>       c       o       z       y
> 
> a Trance & Jungle Factory affair
> has been moved to Friday night (the 23rd)
> This will be an intimate gathering with limited
tickets, presale only (200
> heads only!)
> 
>                OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
> 
> We are pleased to introduce
> >-=-=->   DJ Trance from Amsterdam, Holland for his
Bay Area premiere
> The Bass Kru/Flux & Rinse
> Vertigo
> Thomas Trouble
> Annapurna
> Chris
> b))merang
> 
>                 OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
> 
> All Ages,   $10,    10:45 pm-7am.  The party will
be in the Berkeley area,
> in a clean, cozy venue.  Tickets available at the
Trance & Jungle Factory,
> call 510-704-9876 for more details.
> Or stop by the store at 2575 telegraph ave in
berkeley (one block south of
> dwight way)
> 
>                 OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
> 
> I am not throwing this party...please contact the
Trance & Jungle Factory
> for more info.
> thanks,
> 
> b))merang
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:26:08 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:25:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: dj messages?
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Yeah, I've got a message.  

I think my message is something like "Book me for more DJ gigs so I don't 
have to work a day job." :D :D :D



On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> This is a question mostly for dj's
> 
> I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
> and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
> often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
> like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
> If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:26:37 1998
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From: dhchung@hyperreal.org
Subject: This Week's SFR Calendar!
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org (SF Raves)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:26:32 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves-calendar@hyperreal.org (SFR Calendar)
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Everyone will be relieved to know that I think I have fixed the
year 2000 problem for the calendar, so you can start sending
in the January 1, 2000 party info. :)   I also added a few new
features to the CGI script for the calendar, there are links to
test them on the SFR home page (http://www.hyperreal.org/raves/sf).
There's a set of links to get the calendar for a subset of the greater bay
area (SF, south bay, east bay, sacramento) - note that they
do not list parties of unknown location.  There's also a link to 
get a more compact listing of the calendar if you want to print it
and save paper...  Let me know if you have any other ideas of ways to
present the calendar info or if you have any problems with the new
features...


                              The SFR Calendar
                                      
           http://www.hyperreal.org/raves/sf/calendar/gencal.cgi
     _________________________________________________________________
   
               Upcoming Parties in the San Francisco Bay Area
                                      
   Thursday, January 22nd - Harmonics Clothing and Music Co. presents
   Discovery
   Greg Sandler, Urn, Eric Brown, guests.
   18+, $5. Santa Rosa. 707.571.8747
   
   Friday, January 23rd - House Blends
   Rob Doten, Joey (A.M.Crew), Tim (Intervene Prod.), DJ Tune, Bloom,
   Abdul, Mes.
   510.988.7447
   
   Friday, January 23rd - SF House Collective presents Love
   DJ Dan, Carlos, Jason, Melanie, Jason Allan, Jorge.
   $15 with a flower.
   510.594.4076 415.615.8559
   
   Friday, January 23rd - S.P.A.Z and Spiral Tribe presents Peristaltic
   Tekno Action
   representing the harder edge of electronic beat muzik
   Jason Ovabitch, dj Gabbergirl, Electric Mayhem (live), dj Din, more.
   All ages, $5. 17th and Capp, SF.
   
   Friday, January 23rd - Abstract Science
   Psychedelic Hip Hop from beyond 2000
   Toph, Darkhorse, Polywog, CK Smart, MC Phluid, experiments in real
   time by Ben Wa.
   9pm-2am, 21+. 111 Minna St, SF. 415.332.5800x211
   
   Friday, January 23rd - STATIC One year anniversary celebration
   Bre Ad, Re Ach, Sutekh, Quantum23, Darin, Freaky Chakra (live), Joe
   Rice, Maiz, Shoam, more.
   Presale tickets $10. Limited to 200.
   10pm-8am, $10. 415.789.8308
   
   Friday, January 23rd - The Trance & Jungle Factory presents Cozy
   an intimate berkeley-area gathering with very limited tickets
   DJ Trance (Holland), Flux & Rinse (B.A.S.S. Kru), Vertigo, Thomas
   Trouble, Annapurna, Chris, B))merang.
   tix at the Trance & Jungle Factory (2575 Telegraph Ave/Berkeley).
   10:40p-7a, All ages, $10. Berkeley. 510.704.9876
   
   Saturday, January 24th - 6 in da mornin and On 1 Technologies presents
   Ground Zero 3: the Resurrection
   2 Year Anniversary
   DJ Doubt (Ministry of Sound/UK), Terry Mullan (Chicago), Jason Jinx
   (Nervous/NY), Jim Hopkins (Twitch), dB (Sm:)e/NYC), Dara (Breakbeat
   Science/NY), DJ Dan, Simply Jeff (LA), Hipp-E (Elevator/Colo), Ghost &
   Frank Nitty on 4, Tripnotix, DJ Kimo & Scott LIVE, Joe Lanzon, Paucus,
   Kwashi, Jedi, Rig-A-Tony, Bryen, Sci-Fi, More TBA.
   3 rooms, free giveaways, fully permitted/safe SF location.
   Lasers by NU-SALT. Lighting by On 1 Technologies & Lumatech. Sound by
   JK. Visuals by Liquid Lights.
   8pm-6am, $20. SF. 510.286.7927 415.995.1940 916.484.3734 408.236.2059
   800.590.7032
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Lightseed presents Lightseed One Year
   Anniversary
   Benefitting the world's rainforests, the Cloud Forest Institute and
   the Ceiba Foundation.
   John Howard, Sean Murray, Tracy, Joey, Jeff Taisch, Billy Haste,
   Freaky Chakra (live), Ethan Miller, Anon, Ryan Cimino, Dutch, Re Ach,
   DJ Jets, Russell, Bonnie, Benji, Eric Brown, Greg Sandler, Rob Rayle
   (live), Robert Hart (live), Stephen Kent (live).
   $13 w/can $15 w/out - donations go to Food Not Bombs.
   SF. 415.339.8464 707.329.2189
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Motorway presents Education
   B-Side, Kevin, Dre, Hans.
   $5. Sacramento. 916.491.5891
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Dimentional Transfer presents The Next Angle
   Oddessy (Air Space Safari, Flipside, Alien), Pat Ibbetson (Davis),
   Hutch (KFSR/Fresno), Jordan (U.P.S./Ohio), Deep (PA).
   11pm-?, $7. Fresno. 209.262.8100
   
   Friday, January 30th - Navigator Productions presents Journey
   Simply Jeff (LA), DJ Heretic (LA), Imix (S.L.T.), Neme (Sac), Patrick
   (Sac).
   916.829.6207
   
   Friday, January 30th - Trance Force
   Macadio, Dutch, MysterE, Ramtin, Dino, other special guests.
   tix are limited.
   415.905.8847
   
   Saturday, January 31st - Adrenalin presents In House We Trust
   Jeno, Tony, Simon, Carlos, Mellanie, Pat Allen, Jazz-e, Moda, Shaft,
   Paucus, Kwashi, Essence, Spinner, Tripnotix, Kimo.
   Visuals by Multimedia Meltdown.
   more info TBA.
   
   Saturday, February 7th - 420 KIDZ! presents Vibe Creation
   Macadio, Bryan Lee, Huggy (LA), Kwashi, J. Splat (LA), Tyson (Chi),
   Jazz-E, Aloren D'Angelo (Greater House of Berkeley), DJ Tune (House
   Blends), Mars x Mystr-E (2x4).
   Sound by Purple Turbo and visuals by I-Candy.
   415.995.4983 510.464.1306
   
   Saturday, February 7th - Conscious Session
   Tracy, Simon, Spun, Josh.
   visuals by Donovan.
   SF. 415.273.5599
   
   Tuesday, February 10th - the glad hand three
   an evening of live electronics
   dj monkey, sweet trip, busheeloop, halou.
   8pm-, 21+, $5. justice league, 628 Divisadero, SF.
   
   Friday, February 13rd - Underground Sound Tech presents Love in the
   Phunk House
   Marques Wyatt (LA), Karizma (Sac), Jonene, Anand (Sac), J Smith, Mark
   Pedras.
   4 corner JK sound & UV 99 Full Spectrum Lazer
   916.974.8164 916.974.8104
   
   Friday, February 13rd - Garnet presents Crewsade: The Last Judgment
   Four crews, Four decks, One drum&bass crusade
   J-Boogie w/DJ Quest, B.A.S.S. Kru: Star Eyes, Flux, Rinse,
   Highlanders: Saucer, Tomkat, Xanax, Future Breaks Crew: Arc Angel,
   Gabe Real, Mateo, No Battles.
   21+. the Justice League, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.436.0735
   
   Saturday, February 14th - Space Children presents All Together Now
   3 year anniversary
   Stacey Pullen (3 hour set/3 decks/Transmat, Detroit), Cesar, Steve
   Pagan, Das.
   $10 presale tickets only! Limited capacity of 500 space children.
   SF. 415.675.4700 510.461.SPACE
   
   Saturday, February 14th - Feel Good Entertainment presents Love A-Fair
   '98
   "The Underground Carnival" Valentine's Day PLURity Vibe-Fest and Six
   year anniversary
   Pascal (XTC/Canada), Stryke (Adrenaline/Fla), Troy Roberts
   (Platnum/Sea), Tony & Simon (on 4), MODA & Jazz-E (TranceFusion),
   Carlos, Essence, Tracy, Ghost & Frank Nitty, Roman & Nitsuj (Sea),
   Kevin Kind & Kwashi, Paucus & Tripnotix, Josh Schwab & Corey, Macadio
   & Micron, Joey & Darrell, Rinse, Flux, Stareyes, MC Fluid, Tina K. &
   Max Alert (Generic/LA), MIA (Sea), hak, Sideburn Slim, Miss Knight,
   Glo Worm, Moshe, Vertigo, Ulrich, Spinner, Deepfog, Boomerang, Jeff
   Taisch, Jonathan, Chillz, Ray Vonie.
   limited presale tix go on sale 2.1.98 for $20.
   portion of proceeds benefit environmental organizations.
   Love-Bus trips including admission from LA ($45) and Seattle ($75).
   Call 415.568.1338 for info.
   415.263.0483 510.888.2358 408.881.0785
   
   Wednesday, February 18th - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records
   presents Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Henrik, Josh.
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, February 28th - Nexus presents 2nd Chakra
   Everything TBA soon...
   
   Saturday, March 7th - Harmony
   Ethan, Li, Andy W (on 4 tables), J-Bot & Greg Sandler (4 tables), URN,
   more TBA.
   408.486.9591
   
   Tuesday, March 10th - Bonsai
   Paul, Travis, YT, Ivan.
   9pm-4am, 21+, $5. Jelly's, Pier 50, SF.
   
   Wednesday, March 18th - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records presents
   Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Jeno, Deep Fuzz (Rob Doten and Ben).
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, March 21st - Silver Pearl presents Quest
   amazing music, thumping sound, 3 rooms, free fruit and water, edible
   altars, lasers, visuals and so much more!
   415.273.5912 510.287.5620 408.278.5286
   
   Saturday, April 4th - FunkyBeat presents FEDEX
   guaranteed to take you there overnight
   DJ Dan, Donald Glaude, Jim Hopkins, Simon, Essence, Matthew, Paucus &
   Tripnotix (2x4), Ghost & Frank Nitty (2x4), Kimo & Scott (2x4),
   Spinner & Little Ricky (2x4).
   Presale tix $20, at the door $25.
   415.219.5831
   
   Saturday, April 18th - Dimentional Transfer presents Destination
   Arrival
   Dimentional Transfer celebrates 5 Years
   line up on its way!
   209.262.8100
   
   Saturday, June 13rd - Space Children presents Analog
   Expect an absolutely stellar lineup from all around our beautiful
   planet.
   SF. 415.675.4700 510.461.SPACE
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                              W E E K L I E S
                                      
   House/techno/acid jazz/ambient/etc reg'lar happenins Some of them may
   have ended - let me know when that happens...
   
                                  Thursday
                                      
   Sharpshooter - acid jazz, hip hop, soul w/DJs George, Aural B,
   Romanowski, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $4. elbo room, 647 Valencia, SF.
   415.552.7788
   
   Anthem - house, funk, disco w/DJs David Harness, Ruben Mancias, Jorge
   Martinez, Sista Black, guests. 10pm-6am, 21+, $3. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   415.978.0181
   
   Sprung - funk meets the future w/DJs Manny Rosa, the Baroness, Jimmm
   the dj, guests. alternate Thursdays (10/30...)
   9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   
   Royal Jelly - explorations in creative and social behaviour. Sound
   experiments in digital rhythm and note fantasies w/DJs Lefebvrier,
   Toph, Travis, guest DJs and live acts weekly. 7pm-, 21+, Free. Liquid,
   2925 16th St @ So.Van Ness, SF.
   
   Vibe - deep acid trance, gay, bi and straight w/DJs Jon Bush, Natalie
   Dierickx. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Stud, 9th & Harrison, SF.
   
   Thursday Night Therapy - house, techno w/DJs Jazz-E, Josh Schwab,
   Corey, guests. call for location.
   9pm-3am, 18+. , SF 415.281.8466
   
   karmachanics - house music w/DJs Erin, guests. Alternate Thursdays.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   
   Kit Kat - house. 10pm-4am, 21+. the End Up, 6th & Harrison, SF.
   
   Mosaic - Mauricio, the Baroness, Shannon, Franky. begins July 17th.
   7 Spring St between Kearny & Montgomery, SF.
   
   Trainspotters - UK Progressive House w/DJs DJ Phat Pat, guests. 21+,
   $3. 1333 Columbus @ North Point, SF.
   
   Eklektic - jungle w/DJs StarEyes, Sage, weekly guests. 10p-2a, 21+,
   $5. Kate O'Brien's, 279 Howard @ 2nd, SF. 415.332.5800 x24-7
   [1.22 - Dieselboy & Rinse]
   [1.29 - Honey B w/MC Angel & Rebel-lion]
   [2.5 - Polywog, UFO]
   [2.12 - Snuggles, Slak]
   [2.19 - Gamekat, Mike Bee]
   [2.26 - J-Boogie, Flux]
   
   Discovery - a night of house and disco music w/DJs Greg Sandler, Erik
   Brown, Urn. bi-weekly.
   21+, Free. Masses Pool Hall, 625 Fifth St, Santa Rosa. 707.571.8747
   
   Moving Co. - house w/DJs Pete Avila, guests. free before 10.
   9pm-2am, 21+, $5. justice league, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   The Cafe - house w/DJs Mathew Baker. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. the Cafe,
   2367 Market Street, SF. 415.861.3846
   
                                   Friday
                                      
   Nikita - house, techno w/DJs Simon, Jeno, David Michael, Jerry Bonham.
   Broadcast live on the net at www.1015.com.
   Downstairs, Sticks and Stones- provacateurs of Bass present Drum +
   Bassment with resident DJ Kayar.
   10pm-6am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.267.0568
   [1.23 - Jason Jinx (NY), Dara (NY)]
   [1.30 - Cirrus (live)(LA)]
   [2.6 - Grant Plant (UK)]
   [2.20 - Pete 'the shaker' Bones (UK)]
   
   Fusion - house w/DJs Pat Allen, TJ, Jay R, Larry Live, Phil Salter,
   Cameron, Mark Engler, Rob Bishop. 3 DJs per night, free before 10pm.
   9pm-4am, 21+, $5. 1220 Pine St, Walnut Creek.
   
   the Electric Company - an evening of energetic fusion w/DJs Jonene,
   Ellen Ferrato, guests. 9pm-power outage, 21+, $5. Cat's Grill, 1190
   Folsom, SF. 415.635.6906
   
   Product - house w/DJs Norman 'The Truth' Stradley, sherif, Jay-J, Marc
   Jellybear, DJ Fuze. 21+. the Sound Factory, 525 Harrison St, SF.
   415.979.8686
   
   JR's/Club X - 2 Dancefloors w/DJs DJ Allen (Club X), DJ Charles
   (JR's). $9 for the under 21 crowd.
   8p-4a, 18+, $5. 2520 Camino Diablo, Walnut Creek. 510.256.1200
   
   Moist and Delicious - Mellow hip-jazz to rollin' dnb w/DJs Jake, Visa,
   guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Skylark, 16th & Valencia, SF.
   
   RoM - an evening of sophisticated deep house... w/DJs Chad Mitchell.
   21+, Free. Liquid, 2925 16th St, SF. 415.289.6833
   
   beware of the naughty nurse - house w/DJs Robbie Hardkiss. 10pm-2am,
   21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   
   Drunkyn Mastyrz - hip-hop breaks and jungle w/DJs Drunkyn Mastyrz,
   dayzr. every first friday of the month.
   10pm-2am, Free. The Attic, 3336 24th St @ Bartlett, SF.
   
   Abstract Soul - house w/DJs Corey Black, Loren, Solar, guests. free
   before 11.
   21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard St, SF.
   [1.23 - Corey, Solar]
   [1.30 - Tweekin Records Release Party: DJ Iz, Solar]
   [2.6 - Loren, Corey]
   
   Stir-Fri-Day - drum & bass-dub-hip-hop-house-funk-rare grooves w/DJs
   guests weekly. 5pm-9pm, 21+. Minna St Gallery, 111 Minna St, SF.
   
   Liquid - Sugar-D, guests. 10pm-3am, 21+, $5. Neptune's, 5990 S Land
   Park Dr, Sacramento. 916.452.9823
   
   Electric Avenue - house, techno w/DJs Jonene (Stompy), Ellen Ferrato,
   Danny Deep, Jeff Fetterman (Up & Down, Release). $2 off with student
   ID.
   9pm-5am, 21+. Cat's Alley, 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF.
   
   Groovology - house w/DJs Tracy, guests. $3 before 11p.
   10p-2a, 21+, $5. , Santa Rosa 707.526.1230
   [1.23 - Markie w/Erik Brown]
   [1.30 - Buck w/Jason]
   
                                  Saturday
                                      
   Other Whirled - House, Techno w/DJs Nobel, Vince, Christine, Daniel,
   guests. saturday morning
   5:30am-3pm, 21+. 201 9th @ Howard, SF. 415.208.7665
   
   Release - House, techno, jungle, funk, trip hop, disco w/DJs Marques
   Wyatt, Terence Toy, Julius Papp, Behrouz, Tom Thump, Ellen Ferrato,
   Norm, Thomas Roberts, BB Hayes, Jason Edwards, Anthony Scott, Jerry
   Ross, Eric Lacy, Atom, DJ D, special guests. 10pm-9am, 21+, $10. 1015
   Folsom, , SF. 415.337.7457
   
   Vanilla Fudge - House w/DJs Corey Black, Sunshine, Moonbeam, Jason,
   Big Lee, Darren. occasional saturday nights.
   10pm-2am, Free. Cafe Bastille, 55 Belden Alley, SF. 415.764.2903
   
   Loveworks - house w/DJs Dani, Matt Valenz, guests. i.a.o [inspiration
   aaron o]
   9pm-infinity, . 111 Minna Street, SF. 415.646.0744
   
   GrassRoots - growing the freshest in house beats. w/DJs kelvin k,
   Uneke, Adonis, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   415.864.7386
   
   Pablo's Sugar Shack - SF's Funkiest House and Rare-Jazzy Grooves w/DJs
   Taj, Jay-J, Lele, Buna, Monty, Markiss, Mofo, Roman, SFRaves lounge +
   guests. 10pm-afterhours, 21+, $10. VSF, 278 Folsom @ 11th, SF.
   415.668.2476
   
   Moist and Delicious - Mellow hip-jazz to rollin' dnb w/DJs Jake, Visa,
   guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Skylark, 16th & Valencia, SF.
   
   i Heard That - house w/DJs Alain del Corazon, Ruben Mancias, Chris
   Lum, Rasoul, guests. 9:30pm-2am, 21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard
   St, SF. 415.626.9097
   
                                   Sunday
                                      
   Spundae - House, Techno w/DJs Carlos, David Michael, weekly guests.
   free b4 10:30p
   10pm-5:30am, 21+, $5. 278 11th St @ Folsom, SF. 415.974.9389
   [1.25 - Terry Mullan (Chi), Taj, Niven, David Michael, Scott DC,
   Safar]
   [2.1 - Sasha and John Digweed at 1015 Folsom]
   [2.15 - 5 year anniversary]
   
   Leopard Lounge - Acid Jazz, Funk & Live Bands. w/DJs Suiki, Jay-J,
   Anthony, Julius Papp, Mark Farina, guests. 2125 Lombard @ Fillmore,
   SF. 415.771.2583
   
   Pleasuredome - House w/DJs Neil Lewis, Ruben Mancias, guests. 21+, $8.
   177 Townsend, SF. 415.985.5256
   
   Mix Lounge - techno, house, jungle w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am,
   $4. 2513 Van Ness, SF. 415.928.0404
   
   Dub Mission - SF's only dub night w/DJs Sep, J.Boogie, Ludichris,
   other surprises. 9pm-, 21+, $3. the Elbo Room, 647 Valencia @ 17th,
   SF. 415.552.7788
   
   Plush - house, jungle, trance, ambient w/DJs guest DJs weekly.
   9:30p-2a, 21+, $5. 2708 J St, Sacramento. 916.484.4285
   [1.25 - DJ Dan]
   
   ultra magnetic/left coast chronicles - jungle, drum n bass w/DJs
   abstract, spell, jason mouse, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424
   Haight St, SF.
   
   float - chillin' house beats in a new space w/DJs John Howard, Jason
   Mouse, Erin (409). 10p-2a, 21+, Free. Liquid, 2925 16th @ Mission, SF.
   415.431.8889
   
   Breakfast at Tiffany's - Serving deep house w/DJs Para, Victor,
   Nickola. complimentary breakfast (bagels, fresh fruit, pastries)
   9am-5pm, 21+. DNA Lounge, 375 11th St, SF. 415.635.6906
   
   Nice - house, techno w/DJs Spun, special guests. free before 11.
   21+, $5. basement of the Agenda, , San Jose.
   
   Jungle Love - thumpin variety of drum and bass w/DJs Sifu, Gamekat, MC
   Angel, guests. 9pm-3am, 21+, $7. 161 Eddy St, SF. 415.281.0772
   
   gravity - funk, dub, hip hop, jungle w/DJs tomas, andrew jervis,
   markus, guests weekly. on the mic: jamalski
   9pm-2am, 21+, $3. upstairs at Paradise, 11th & Folsom, SF.
   415.974.4358
   
   Four Four Baby - an afternoon of house music w/DJs patrick, lamont,
   chris orr. 3pm-10pm, 21+, $6. il pirata, 16th St @ Potrero, SF.
   415.626.2626
   
   Waterproof - ethereal grooves, real people w/DJs Mauricio, Franky.
   10pm-, 21+, Free. backflip, 601 Eddy @ Larkin, SF.
   
   Saolta - a TrancelectroCeltic dance party altern8 Sundays.
   9pm-2am, 21+. 1600 Market St, SF. 415.273.1845
   
   The Cafe - house w/DJs Jay-R, Mathew Baker. 5pm-2am, 21+, Free. the
   Cafe, 2367 Market Street, SF. 415.861.3846
   
   sabotage - techno derivatives w/DJs jon santos, sutekh, marcus miller,
   positive p, kit clayton, darin marshall, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3.
   kate o'brien's, 579 Howard @ 2nd, SF.
   
                                   Monday
                                      
   rotation - jazz, hiphop, soul, acid jazz, funk w/DJs racer x, yamu,
   stef, rasta cue-tip, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. up & down club, 1151
   Folsom St, SF.
   
   Phreak Mode - Bass, Booty and Beat Trax w/DJs DJ Positive P, Kit
   Clayton (One Jack Mind), Jim, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $2. The Top, 424
   Haight, SF.
   
   Beat Box - drum'n'bass, jungle, downtempo w/DJs Val. 9:30pm-, 21+,
   Free. Dalva, 3121 16th St, SF.
   
   Noc Noc - Drum'n'bass, downtempo and electronica w/DJs Mohsen. every
   other Monday.
   9pm-2am, 21+, Free. 557 Haight St, SF. 415.861.5811
   
   One - techno, trance w/DJs Ulf, T.C., guests. Visuals by
   Eyetribe.8pm-2am, 21+, $4. the Cellar, 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF.
   
   Undertow - hardcore, techno, jungle. every other Monday starting
   August 25th. More details to follow...
   21+, $2. Mansion Pub, 132 Est., Davis. 916.759.7163
   
   NO TV - From Pure Ambient to House in 7 hours w/DJs Wunjo, Henrik
   Rosal, guest(s). $5 b4 10pm. Every other Monday.
   9pm-3:30am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.675.9899
   [1.26 - Kenneth Sol]
   
   Spackle - house, techno w/DJs Sean, guests weekly. 6am-12:30pm, 21+,
   $4. 1028 Geary Ave, SF.
   
   Mondays on Hayes - house, techno w/DJs guest DJs weekly. starts in
   November.
   21+, Free. 520 Hayes, SF.
   
   Curveball - a midtempo night's dream w/DJs Smove, Rhyme Scheme, Tony
   Scott, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Club Paradise, 1028 Geary Blvd., SF.
   415.605.9057
   
   Density - 98% Concentrated Urban Beats saturated with Drum & Bass
   Deconstructions w/DJs Al Simmons, Fluid Motion (Om/Mephisto), Paul (On
   The One), Aural B (Sharpshooter), Moc. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Justice
   League, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   Sister - house, jungle, hip hop w/DJs guests weekly. cat's grill, 1190
   Folsom St, SF. 415.255.4333
   
                                  Tuesday
                                      
   Rhythm - house, techno w/DJs Daniel, Stevian, Mark Willson, Mark
   Silva, live congas by Brian, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, Free. Greg's Bar,
   551 W.Julian/Montgomery, San Jose. 408.286.4388
   
   Buggin' Out and the terrorist society - drum'n'bass for your head
   space on the 11th of every month w/DJs mateo, push, gamekat. 9:30p-,
   21+, $3. cafe mars, 798 Brannan, SF. 415.522.2343
   
   Pure - house w/DJs Brian Brandon, guests. 9pm-, 18+. The Rage, 1890
   Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.929.0232
   
   Static - Techno, Drum & Bass, Downtempo, Electro w/DJs ReAch, Quantum,
   Brad, Darin Marshall, Sutekh, guests. 10pm-2am, $2. 2925 16th @ S Van
   Ness, SF.
   
   Sedate Grooves - downbeat, drum'n'bass, breaks, hip hop and weird
   noises w/DJs David, Erik (Phunkatech), weekly guests. 10pm-2am, 21+,
   $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   
   Move - house w/DJs DJ Josh, guests weekly. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. 1028
   Geary @ Polk, SF.
   
   Vision Quest - Joe Lanza, Will, Dice, JKR, weekly guests. 9p-2a, 21+,
   $5. 1655 B Willow Pass Rd, Concord. 510.594.4007
   
   Spin Cycle - guests weekly. 7pm-10pm, Free. the Black Box Cabaret, 3rd
   St & 4th Avenue, CSUMB Campus. 408.457.SPAM
   
   Groove - deep funky freaky groovy trancy trippy jazzy spacey
   progressive dance w/DJs Jerry Bonham, Blackstone, Ellen Ferrato,
   Julius Papp, Mouse, DRC. Little nibbly things until 3am.
   10:30pm-4:30am, 21+, $5. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Ritual - a downtempo/triphop experience w/DJs Xanax, guests.
   415.436.0735
   [1.27 - Aquarius Celebration w/guest DJ Toph-One]
   [2.3 - Palmas (latin jazz)]
   [2.10 - Guarneri Quartet (legendary jazz)]
   [2.17 - Terra Deva & Andre Bush (soulful jazz)]
   
                                 Wednesday
                                      
   Come/Unity - House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first
   Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.241.8815
   [2.4 - guests Ben Wa (2 sets, one up and one down)]
   
   Audio Alchemy - jazz, hip hop, drum & bass, latin, futuristic beats
   w/DJs Groove Merchant DJs, Tom Thump, Cool Chris. 7pm-, 21+. Liquid,
   2925 16th St @ So.Van Ness, SF.
   
   Phunckatech - jungle, hiphop w/DJs UFO, Juju, Abstract, Spell, Noel,
   Jason Mouse, S.C.U.B.A. SKWAD DJs Charlie Bucket and Beatjakr.
   10pm-3am, 18+, $5. Cat's Grill and Alley, 1190 Folsom, SF.
   415.331.1500x16
   
   JR's Club - house, trance w/DJs DJ Allen. 8pm-2am, Free. 2520 Camino
   Diablo, Walnut Creek. 510.256.1200
   
   ElectroniKa - Spesh, Kimon, Gil. Visuals by Hyperdelic.Fantastic Vibe.
   5pm-9pm, Free. 111 Minna St, SF.
   
   Recline - rare and abstract w/DJs Wisdom, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $5.
   Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard @ 2nd., SF. 415.824.9878
   
   Escape - ali, mitch, hutch, special guests. Jax House, 1145 N.Fulton,
   Fresno. 209.268.4289
   
   The Lounge - house w/DJs house DJs from near and far. 10p-2a, 21+, $3.
   The Red Lion Inn, 1401 Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.484.3706
   
   Twist - Deep and Swing House w/DJs Christopher, weekly guests.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $5. the Beer Cellar, 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF.
   415.317.1754
   
   the Bulletproof Social - jazz, soul, latin, house, disco, dub, jungle
   w/DJs kevin, george, jayson, richard, kirsten, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+,
   Free. nickie's, 484 haight st, SF.
   
   The Basement Lounge - house w/DJs Miguel "Migs", rotating deep dj's
   weekly. Club 1028, 1028 Geary @ Polk, SF. 415.376.1176
   
   sofalize - ...next level loungin' w/DJs rotating DJs. donations
   appreciated...bring i.d. and please respect the space.
   full coffee bar / literature.
   9pm-. 415.789.8308
   
   the Vinyl Treetmnt - house, jungle, techno w/DJs guests weekly. 21+,
   $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF. 415.522.2343
   
   Good Housekeeping - house, techno w/DJs John Howard, Mark E Quark, Don
   Crisp. every 2nd, 3rd and 4th Wed of the month starting in February.
   21+, $5. Jelly's, Pier 50, SF.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                                 Info Lines
                                      
     * Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087. Usually has 5-10 listings, updated
       daily.
     * the Buzz-line, a global party network - 415.569.3300
     * Clubline - 415.979.8686
     * Frequency 8 Trance/Techno infoline - 415.541.5019
     * The Groove Line - (415) 331.1500 ext.4788
     * Housewares Rave Line - 415.281.0125
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                             Radio/TV/Net Shows
                                      
     * Sunday night 8pm-10pm - "Soundz of Resistance" w/DJ Poohbear.
       Underground electronic music, mainly jungle/drum and bass, dub and
       hard techno along with guest DJs, interviews and not-so-random
       amples of life. KZSC 88.1 (Santa Cruz)
     * Sunday night 11pm-2am - "The Dreaming/Innermind Show" w/DJ Miracle
       & Mr. Monchichi. House, Jungle, Trip-Hop, Ambient, Dub,
       Break-Beats & guest DJs. KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara)
     * Sunday night midnight-1am - "Shortwave" - Electronic music in all
       of its guises. KALX, 90.7 FM (Berkeley)
     * Tuesday night 11:30pm-2:30am - "Conscious Groove" - a show all
       about ambientdowntempojungletechnotrancedrumnbasstriphop love and
       more with weekly guest DJs. Free Radio Berkeley 104.1 (Berkeley)
     * Wednesday night 9pm-11pm - free form music mix. KPFA 94.1
       (Berkeley)
     * Wednesday night/Thursday morning - "the tube" hosted by miss laura
       aka lola. an electronic excursion into ambient soundscapes,
       ethereal trance, and washes of other whimsical muzik. KAZU 90.3
       (Monterey Bay Community Radio)
     * Thursday morning 10am-2pm - "The Further Adventures of Aardvark" -
       trip-hop to experimental to ambient to gabba etc, etc. KSJS 90.5
       (San Jose).
     * Thursday 5pm-9pm - The Beta Lounge - Live netcast of jungle, dub,
       breakbeat, hiphop, ambient, experimental.
       http://www.betalounge.com/
     * Thursday night 9pm-mid - "An Epiphany of Sound" hosted by J.C. The
       best in beats to satiate your inner child. Electronic dance,
       noise, spoken word, world music and more. Also available in
       RealAudio. KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
     * Friday 10am-3pm - weekly DJ netcasts. x-radio.
     * Friday 3pm-6pm - free form music mix. KUSF 90.3 (SF) (also
       available on Realaudio
     * Friday 9:30am-noon - Snappy the Aligator plays deep groove music
       that dips into cool electronic sounds, classic soul, reggae &
       more. KALX, 90.7 FM (Berkeley)
     * Fridays 9pm-midnight - Andrew from Groove Merchant spins on KUSF
       90.3 (SF)
     * Friday night/Saturday morning - midnight-noon. House/techno mix
       with Johnny K, Ozone & guests - KCSS 91.9 Central Valley (Turlock)
     * Friday night/Saturday morning - "Just Desserts" w/Mr.Goodwrench -
       10pm-2am Jungle, Detroit, Techno, Acid House, whacked-out Dub, and
       noise KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills
     * Friday night - Moondance. Ambient; 3am-7:30am, KUSF 90.3 SF.
     * Saturday afternoon - "Bus Stop" - music and talk w/guest DJs from
       SF and beyond. 2pm-3pm. KUSF 90.3 SF.
     * Saturday night 9pm-mid - "Underbrush" w/DJ Radon and guests -
       Beats, Breakz and Buzz KZSU 90.1 (Stanford). Also broadcast via
       RealAudio.
     * Saturday night 11pm - Flux Television, Viacom Channel 53 -
       Ambient, acid jazz and house music videos & interviews. (415)
       281-3377. flux@flux.net
     * (every other) Saturday night 10p-12:30a - "1984" w/DJ Richtoffen.
       House, Trance and German rave. 90.1 (Chico)
     * Saturday night - "amp" 1am. MTV.
     * Saturday night - "Subsonic". 1am-6am, KITS 105.3 SF.
     * Saturday night - "House Nation" w/"Anthems Mix", Top 10s from
       guest DJs and "London Connection w/DJ Doubt". 2am-4am, WILD 94.9
       SF.
     * Ambiance Magazine - 9:30p weds-sun PNC Cable 2 (Modesto &
       Oakdale), 9p fri & sat, marcus cable ch 9 (ceres & turlock).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   For a search interface to the calendar, see the Late Train club
   section (http://www.latetrain.com/clubs/).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                            Administrative Notes
                                      
   If anyone has info on any other events, send it to me! I can't
   possibly hope to get all the info every week.
   
   This info gets sent via email every Thursday. To subscribe or
   unsubscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
   majordomo@hyperreal.org with either the line
   
   subscribe sfraves-calendar or
   unsubscribe sfraves-calendar
   
   There is also an sfraves discussion mailing list for issues related to
   clubs, parties, house and techno music, etc. To subscribe, send e-mail
   to majordomo@hyperreal.org with the line
   
   subscribe sfraves
   
   in the body of the message.
   
   
    Derek Chung - dhchung@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:31:40 1998
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From: danielv <danielv@cloudfactory.org>
Subject: Re: dj messages?
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Yeah, my message is DANCE MOTHER FUCKERS!!! DANCE!!!!!




At 4:46 PM -0800 1/22/98, fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>This is a question mostly for dj's
>
>I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
>and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
>often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
>like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
>If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?
>
>	><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>		foolish fish




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:31:45 1998
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Subject: Re: dj messages?
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Yeah, my message is DANCE MOTHER FUCKERS!!! DANCE!!!!!




At 4:46 PM -0800 1/22/98, fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>This is a question mostly for dj's
>
>I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
>and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
>often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
>like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
>If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?
>
>	><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>		foolish fish




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:34:04 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:11:33 EST
To: fish1111@PACBELL.NET, owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  dj messages?
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foolish fish wrote:

<<This is a question mostly for dj's

I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?>>


For myself, It really depends on the vibe of a party and/or time of the set.

 At a smaller more intimate party (club or what have you), the vibe is
primarily about having a good time. <<READ: SWEAT, SWEAT, SWEAT!!!>> If I'm
playing last @ such a party, I feel It's essential to have people leave
wanting more...I usually end up with a powerful song w/ vocals.
 If I play @ a rave...It depends on the time of my set. Prime time (usually
btwn.1:00am & 3:00am) is just about playing "the choonz", songs that just set
it off...any time after prime, its about creating a particular mood. I tend to
get more creative with the slot after prime...figuring out what I'd like to
give to people, how I'd like them to feel...not necessarily playing the hits
but powerful, more deeper songs.

Primarily, my message is about having a blast and giving thru music. After
all...music is life, the rest is just filler!!  8}

Noel
PHUNCKATECK COMMUNICATIONS
PHUNKN3@aol.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:58:00 1998
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Date: 22 Jan 98 17:53:42 -0800
From: "zza" <JLACZKO@us.oracle.com>
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>>Whiskeyflip -- self explanatory. 
>>	Buzz: who the hell remembers? 
 
I can vouch for this one!  
Last time I took 1/5 of whiskey over the course of an hour... 
 
uh well yeah it WAS stupid.... 
 
>>Side effects: most likely you will dehydrate 100% and turn to	dust. 
 
Don't forget you wake up drunk. 
 
zza

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 01:58:45 1998
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> This is a question mostly for dj's
> 
> I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
> and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is

It really depends.  I spent a lot of my youth looking for a shaman, and
met several, all of whom were no more than charlatans.  I know the genuine
article exists, as I have met people since then who are amazing, but the
medicine people are rarely who you think they will be.  It's less about
mysticysm and more about intent, less form and more function.

As for the techno part, vinyl is getting pretty retro... there are a
limited number of variables... both shaman and techno are such
buzzwords... I think it's about people who try to stay openhearted/minded
enough that they can "channel" the room back into itself.

DJs use mixing, pitch, dissonance, tempo, melody, tone, absence of all of
the above, groove, flow, reaction of the crowd, the moment, volume, the
mood, scratching, cuts, and a whole slew of other concepts to affect the
mood of a gathering.  With so many records of so many sounds, the DJ as
selector has a good deal of control over the mood of a room... and it only
gets better from there as you introduce various skills to bring out
different parts of those records (blending and accenting the BEST parts
for that night, for that moment). 

> often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
> like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.

<Joe Pesci>Like a clown?  I'm fuggin' here to entertain you?</Joe Pesci> I
meet DJs who I consider entertainers, and I maintain a good deal of
respect for them. But there are others who pound the drum in a way that
challenges the listener... that are capable of introducing certain flavors
of idea with a simple inflection from one record to another... or the
subtle dialing of EQ as a drum part starts to trail off leaving a sense of
emptiness across the room, and slowly bringing it back as people look to
one another and realize the machine, the spirit, the vibe, is growing.
With this assurance, they close their eyes and dance as one for a moment
that will *hopefully* come to at just the right point... to reach the
elation that can be dance in love with everything (it's not even love,
it's this awareness, but I can't explain it without writing the longest
post ever).  All step on the one, no agreement except that we show up to
celebrate it.

For those of you who say that there aren't enough variables for it to be
something special... think about the medicine drum... a finite number of
ways to hit the drum, and a finite number of sounds... with only timing
and inflection they take the willing elsewhere...

I can't really explain it.  Some people can pick up a drum and pound a
rythym, making it progressively faster and faster, and it just gets
faster.  Others pick it up, and draw you in.  The beat goes with your
pulse and you feel it speed up faster... you fear and your heart speeds up
as well.  Soon, you feel it drop a little again... the mood changes as you
find yourself atuned again.  There is tension and release, in the
steadiness, you find solace and your spirit widens and feels free, with
the rushing beats you find exhilaration or angst or challenge.  It's
important because they know it's important...  with that assumption all
things take on greater significance. 

> If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?

Some DJs share their love, because that is what they give best.  Some
share their conceit, others share their anger.  Personally, there are
benefits to not putting my cards on the table...  there's something cheap
about understanding the destination prior to assuming the journey... but I
know it's about love and strength and making a place in a world where
people can remember how important they are to each other.  It's something
I think about when I buy records, when I pick records, when I'm looking
through my crate for the next record... and when I "oh shit" and decide to
pick another even though I already have a different one beatmatched and
ready to go.

People dance together.  Maybe a lot of you don't think that's amazing, but
I live for that moment, on either side of the decks when the whole thing
just tears away and it turns into thoughts, and colors and feelings and
these crazed faces beaming and hands up at the ceiling with everyone
freaking out about being along for the ride and memories and some crazed
gold ring that we all are reaching for.  It's a healing place, and I
wasn't too happy with my life a couple years ago and then I stumbled
across it...

Or maybe it's just the cool thing to do this year.

Peace,
AndyW


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 02:49:44 1998
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God Andy, that was beautiful.

For me, it's more of "I like to share music I like with my friends, so
while I'm up we're all friends whether I know you or not.  Let's have
fun, I hope you enjoy it, wheeee!"

Or at least, that's the ideal of what it's like on a good night.  On a bad 
night, it's *very* different :-(

Laura

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 02:51:16 1998
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, ^Faust^ wrote:

> Judge the music yourselves. Listen to their live broadcasts:
> http://www.ministry-of-sound.com
> 

I have (and PUKE on that awful buzzing in the Sasha RealAudio by the way.. 
do they not put groundwires on UK 1200's or something?), that's why I
agree with CatWeasel... same music we get in our clubs here in San Jose on
Thursday and Sundays nights, but they add trance, cause that's safe now in
the UK (you hear "children" in elevators and fast food joints)... it's fun
to dance to and all, but it's not going to take me further than a nice
rolling groove (unless I get a couple Long Islands and a wink from across
the bar...hubba hubba).  Don't think I'd be into it in a huge old place
like 1015 on Steroids (that's how I've heard it described), but it works
in a small club setting. If that's what you want, cool. 

I think the type of marketing that Minstry of Sound is using is
destructive to the world scene.  It's not about being able to book John
Digweed or Sasha every damn weekend, it's about creating a space where
people can just be and grow from there... and a dress code/sensationalist
marketing/priciest DJs in town/flat_out_hype SUPERCLUBBE seems a tad at
odds with that in my limited understanding. 

I mean, does it strike anyone as odd that they're now figuring out ways to
suck your money across the Atlantic?  Gotta love mass marketing...
suckering people into advertising what they don't even understand... and
the website... holy shit... I hadn't seen this in a while... it starts out
with a 'crazy chick' and a headline "KINKY SEX!!!"... TACKY!!!  well..
they figured out how to get the American market's attention... I just
don't feel it's what the scene is about, but I'm just one sucka...

Oh God... I'm playing the RealAudio
(http://www.ministryofsound.co.uk/clubcast/mos1909a.ram if you're morbidly
curious) in the background and I just heard that
"gamemaster" track the list was raving about last week... I think I just
have different tastes or something... that doesn't strike any of you as
INCREDIBLY CHEESY?  That break and vocal is AWFUL!@!!!!!!

"Like a priceless jewel, buried in deep layers of soil and stone... the
earth..."

...and later...

"You are becoming aware of yourself as ...<tense poetic pause>... a
gamemaster"

You just put me through 90 seconds of break to tell me I'm a fuggin
gamemaster?  What does the dancefloor look like at that point...?  Are
people happy to realize they've all just become "gamemasters"?  Are they
in self fulfilled bliss... swaying back and forth (there's no beat at this
point might I add) and trading Magic cards while others put on more
eyeliner or something??? 

You've got to be shitting me... going home now... giggling like an
idiot... "the gamemaster..."

damn... just not my style I guess...

Peace,
AndyW


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 02:52:40 1998
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Subject: i got some great answers
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	thanks to all of you who answered
	to "i've got a question"
	b))merang's being especially inventive.

the next issue won't be out for about
a month/.


j



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 02:53:07 1998
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From: "Tony Biedenkapp" <teknocon@flash.net>
To: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: For Sale...Phatty Pants
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:54:05 -0500
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I have for you 60 inch cargo pants. I now have 4
different colors. Colors are as follows...
Dark Denim
Stone Washed Camo
Khaki
White
The cost of these pants are $75.00. This includes shipping. You can pay by
Credit Card, Money Order or Certified check. If you would like to order a
pair(s) please contact me.I will get back to you. Or you can respond by
email.
Please allow 3 weeks for delivery. But more than likely it will be a lot
sooner. Thanks for your interest and I look forward to speaking with you.

Tony       teknocon@flash.net


Any buisness are welcome as well, stores, shops, record stores, clubs, or
whateva. For this though there will be a minimum order, but at a reduced
price, for more info, just respond.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 02:54:35 1998
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On 23 Jan 1998 laura@hyperreal.org wrote:

> Or at least, that's the ideal of what it's like on a good night.  On a bad 
> night, it's *very* different :-(
> 
> Laura
> 

On a bad night, it's more like "uh... did I grab the wrong box?" and "why
are all these people looking at me?" or the clincher "shouldn't more of 
these people be dancing?  They were dancing a couple minutes ago..."
but we don't dwell on that... okay?

;)

Andy


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 03:16:44 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-22-98 17:58

<<< It's a healing place, and I wasn't too happy with my life a couple years
ago and then I stumbled across it...

Or maybe it's just the cool thing to do this year.

Peace,
AndyW>>>

This got me thinking about music in my life.  I wasn't too happy a while back
with my life either.  When the music that saved my life hit me I was standing
outside some no name convenience store in a bad neighborhood.  A car drove up
with some bumpin' ass grooves and I chilled while the homeboys went inside.

I didn't even know how to dance but my body just kind of had to move to the
music.  Now that I think about it, it was primal, a need, a side of me that
exploded outside myself pulling me along for the ride.  The homeboys came out
and stared at me 'cause I was almost inside the car listening and groovin'. 
They asked me if I like the music and I said hell yaz.  So they taught me how
to dance and I joined their dance group.  Man, the clubs and parties I went to
saved me from getting stupid.  Music and dancing was my life.

I was locking, popping, breakin', you name it.  I'm sure glad disco evolved
into house.  That was 1977, I was 10 years old.  Damn if I don't feel the vibe
even stronger now.  Don't know if I'll keep going out dancing all my life, but
what the hell, why stop now.

All I gots to say to y'all is, "May the funk be with you!"  That's all, peace.

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"...all my life I've been dancing...like liquor raises the spirits...I would
dance..."


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 03:17:20 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:15:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: dj messages?
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if i were a dj, my message would be..

YO CHECK IT THIS MUSIC'S HELLA PHAT!
but i'm, not
so i dance instead.
xo
lara

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> This is a question mostly for dj's
> 
> I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
> and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
> often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
> like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
> If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 03:34:49 1998
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Andy,

Wow. Your description is really fundamental and sincere. Thanks for writing
what I feel. I will save this post in my favorites.

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

AndyW wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> 
> > This is a question mostly for dj's
> >
> > I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
> > and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
> 
> It really depends.  I spent a lot of my youth looking for a shaman, and
> met several, all of whom were no more than charlatans.  I know the genuine
> article exists, as I have met people since then who are amazing, but the
> medicine people are rarely who you think they will be.  It's less about
> mysticysm and more about intent, less form and more function.
> 
> As for the techno part, vinyl is getting pretty retro... there are a
> limited number of variables... both shaman and techno are such
> buzzwords... I think it's about people who try to stay openhearted/minded
> enough that they can "channel" the room back into itself.
> 
> DJs use mixing, pitch, dissonance, tempo, melody, tone, absence of all of
> the above, groove, flow, reaction of the crowd, the moment, volume, the
> mood, scratching, cuts, and a whole slew of other concepts to affect the
> mood of a gathering.  With so many records of so many sounds, the DJ as
> selector has a good deal of control over the mood of a room... and it only
> gets better from there as you introduce various skills to bring out
> different parts of those records (blending and accenting the BEST parts
> for that night, for that moment).
> 
> > often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
> > like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
> 
> <Joe Pesci>Like a clown?  I'm fuggin' here to entertain you?</Joe Pesci> I
> meet DJs who I consider entertainers, and I maintain a good deal of
> respect for them. But there are others who pound the drum in a way that
> challenges the listener... that are capable of introducing certain flavors
> of idea with a simple inflection from one record to another... or the
> subtle dialing of EQ as a drum part starts to trail off leaving a sense of
> emptiness across the room, and slowly bringing it back as people look to
> one another and realize the machine, the spirit, the vibe, is growing.
> With this assurance, they close their eyes and dance as one for a moment
> that will *hopefully* come to at just the right point... to reach the
> elation that can be dance in love with everything (it's not even love,
> it's this awareness, but I can't explain it without writing the longest
> post ever).  All step on the one, no agreement except that we show up to
> celebrate it.
> 
> For those of you who say that there aren't enough variables for it to be
> something special... think about the medicine drum... a finite number of
> ways to hit the drum, and a finite number of sounds... with only timing
> and inflection they take the willing elsewhere...
> 
> I can't really explain it.  Some people can pick up a drum and pound a
> rythym, making it progressively faster and faster, and it just gets
> faster.  Others pick it up, and draw you in.  The beat goes with your
> pulse and you feel it speed up faster... you fear and your heart speeds up
> as well.  Soon, you feel it drop a little again... the mood changes as you
> find yourself atuned again.  There is tension and release, in the
> steadiness, you find solace and your spirit widens and feels free, with
> the rushing beats you find exhilaration or angst or challenge.  It's
> important because they know it's important...  with that assumption all
> things take on greater significance.
> 
> > If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?
> 
> Some DJs share their love, because that is what they give best.  Some
> share their conceit, others share their anger.  Personally, there are
> benefits to not putting my cards on the table...  there's something cheap
> about understanding the destination prior to assuming the journey... but I
> know it's about love and strength and making a place in a world where
> people can remember how important they are to each other.  It's something
> I think about when I buy records, when I pick records, when I'm looking
> through my crate for the next record... and when I "oh shit" and decide to
> pick another even though I already have a different one beatmatched and
> ready to go.
> 
> People dance together.  Maybe a lot of you don't think that's amazing, but
> I live for that moment, on either side of the decks when the whole thing
> just tears away and it turns into thoughts, and colors and feelings and
> these crazed faces beaming and hands up at the ceiling with everyone
> freaking out about being along for the ride and memories and some crazed
> gold ring that we all are reaching for.  It's a healing place, and I
> wasn't too happy with my life a couple years ago and then I stumbled
> across it...
> 
> Or maybe it's just the cool thing to do this year.
> 
> Peace,
> AndyW

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 05:03:26 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:03:28
From: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
To: faust@grift.com,
Subject: Re: MoS - kill kill kill
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I think this is a common probem when people try to understand the UK scene. You may like the music that comes out of the MoS, but beieve me, you would not be supporting them if you knew what that music scene is all about in reality. Sure, listen to digweed and sasha (I'd rather not, but that's my choice) - I can even hande that their music goes off at underground events here - it's a different culture after all. But the scene for this kind of music in the UK is just the most goddam awful posey glammed up overground pop sellout shite that will dig in here then sell out and completelly fuck up any scene that there once may have been by marketing it to the masses who are oh so desperate to be cool and isn't that MoS mix CD just the bomb and they will make so much cash and be successful and just become a huge corporation ike they always stated they wanted to be.
Choose wisely where you invest your cash - your future scene may depend on it.
MoS are obviousy trying to get in on the US market as everyone hates their guts in the UK, and I'd rather the word got out now that these fukkers are so much more evi than any big "massive" organisation over here ever could be, they are only about money, not scene or community or values, they are the ENEMY ferchrissakes, backed by multinational corporations (they took a tour to china sponsored by British Associated Tobacco (the Philip Morris of the UK) to pedal their evil wares - they embrace the acohol and tobacco industry).
They are a corporation hell bent on expoiting the "cool wannabe" youth market.
They stand for everything that I'd imagine the sfrave scene holds dear.
Please don't listen to their website as it will give them more hits and popularity.
You have been warned. Spread the word.
It is possibe to get mix CDs of this cheesy house music from places other than MoS - please do. I'm not against the music, just the corporation building that's going on behind it in the UK.
And don't get me started on cream or renaissance or back to basics...

C@weasel

faust@grift.com wrote:
> Judge the music yourselves. Listen to their live broadcasts:
> http://www.ministry-of-sound.com
> 
> CAT WEASEL wrote:
> 
> > >  From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
> > >  Subject: Re: Resurrection
> >
> > >  Hey Minh,
> >
> > >  Ministry of Sound is not just clubs, far from 1015 or
> > >  SoundFactory, Ministry of Sound has produced some of
> > >  the best DJ's in the world. Sure its about clubs, but
> > >  its also about consistently bomb ass
> > >  music. The clubs I went to in Ibiza were absolutely
> > >  crazy fun hi ~elena~ there isn't a club in the U.S.
> > >  that even comes close. (IMHO) DJ Doubt is dope Marc,
> > >  Ground Zero I'll see you there.
> >
> > Ministry of Sound is the biggest leeching shitty lowest common denominator
> posey overpriced bunch of arse that has ever deigned to grace that city of
> insanity that is London.
> > The owner is an aristocratic ex-stockbroker who is blatantly proud that he's
> completely in it for the money - selling an image that makes people feel they're
> "cool" even though MoS most definitely isn't. They have dress codes for fucks
> sake! It's a beer monster's haven, strictly no illegal substances, dress up in
> nice checked shirts-lads-on-the-pull and a-line minidresses girls-on-the-piss
> kind of affair.
> > I could list tons of crimes against humanity that this putrescent organisation
> has committed, but I won't go into it here.
> > Anyone who is proud to have (Mos London) after their name is obviously going
> to be playing cheesy commercial formularic house.
> > And the word on the street is they're going to go bust soon, and not before
> time.
> > Ministry of pound sux. Go listen to some decent music. And if you see anyone
> with a ministry of sound record bag (every 12 year old schoolkid in London) or
> tasteful black MoS "bomber" jacket then be sure to inform them of their serious
> error.
> > Basically it is the most sell-out-tastic pile of toss in the whole of the UK
> scene - they know it, everyone else knows it and you too should now know it.
> Avoid.
> > Rant over
> > C@weasel.
> >
> > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> "Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."
> 


Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 05:17:08 1998
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(Okay, well maybe nothing quite so dramatic.)

But seriously, I keep kicking myself because there are excellent
drum & bass events happening that I can't make it to as a result
of my off-by-one error in the age department.  AUGH!

Any recommendations for a place I can go to kick it without
being nixed at the door?

**j


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 05:57:18 1998
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> elation that can be dance in love with everything (it's not even love,
> it's this awareness, but I can't explain it without writing the longest
> post ever).  

Go for it Andy, you got our attention now... we're listening with baited
breath.....

- Martin

(that had to be one of the greatest posts ever)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 05:57:26 1998
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From: "Brian Bingley" <bringley@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NDC?????????
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An enquirer needs to know if the initials/acronym NDC is used
in dance circles, particularly on flyers for concerts, raves, etc.

2 locals are in dispute about whether the expression  is owned, or, in 
the common domain.

I would appreciate any information members of your List are able 
to give about ‘NDC’ and/or its usage.

I have searched extensively on commercial databases and on WWW,
including several archived mailing lists at Hyperreal, without success.

Please send information to either

brianb@slsa.sa.gov.au
or
bringley@hotmail.com


P.S. This message has also been posted with 7283 out 
of Hyperreal.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 06:15:56 1998
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To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>, CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: MoS - kill kill kill 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 98 18:51:02 PST."
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.980122181429.412C-100000@atari> 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 22:15:44 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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Well, i think you're all exagerrating w/r/t MoS and overground clubs.
I'm really not convinced that "underground" is some kind of holy grail,
and if people like the music at this overground club then that's their
business -- no reason to try and make them feel inferior... 

Face it, rave music is overground. When you got techno being played for
models sashaying down the runway, when you got jungle playing as
background music on commercials, it's time to let go and appreciate the
fact that people will  no longer look at you like an alien for playing
music that isn't rock and roll.

It's also good because it means that people can move on and start
making really interesting new sounds, whether that be Squarepusher, or
Boards of Canada, or Fila Brazilia, or Up Bustle and Out, or Quant...

I've also seen people diss Twilo which might be a MoS-like club in NYC
-- but I've seen their schedule for this month and it basically kicks
ass over anything we get in SF (http://www.twilo.com/events/index.html)
-- check these PHENOMENAL DJ's they've hosting -- Jon Pleased Wimmen
(UK), Derrick Carter (USA), Alfredo (Ibiza),  Dimitri (Paris), Nick
Warren (UK), Justin Robertson (UK), Luke Slater (UK)... all within a
months time. I'd love to see any of these DJ's because they RULE!

Also, I have a few MoS Mix CD's that I enjoy even though they're 
definitely "clubby"... but I like clubby, so what's the big deal... I
knew they'd be like that because, ferchrissakes,  I picked 'em up at
Heathrow Airport! No pretense there, I wanted to hear what is popular
in the UK right now... so what's the problem? 

Also, AndyW -- w/r/t the "Gamemaster" track, I was just trying to be
helpful w/r/t someone asking for a track Id. I too happen to think this
track was cheezy and said so, as is most of the rest of the music on
the Sonique mix CD i have (it's mostly "trance" which I mostly find to
be uninspiring and cheezy).

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 06:19:15 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:17:03 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Jon Cooper <jcooper@sirius.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: 21+ events are the bane of my existence.
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try phunckatecks on wednesday nites.
they're 18+ and $5, drumnbass in yo face :)
i dunno if they still use the b.a.s.s. kru line for their weekly but
here's the b.a.s.s. kru line anyhow: 
(415)332-5800 ext.247.
:)~ i haven't been to phunckateck in ages, one of these dayz..
xo
lara

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jon Cooper wrote:

> (Okay, well maybe nothing quite so dramatic.)
> 
> But seriously, I keep kicking myself because there are excellent
> drum & bass events happening that I can't make it to as a result
> of my off-by-one error in the age department.  AUGH!
> 
> Any recommendations for a place I can go to kick it without
> being nixed at the door?
> 
> **j
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 06:32:12 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:37:17 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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>From what i heard it is a branch of the NRA... Nekkid Ravers Association.
Seems there was a dispute over wearing sandles while dancing as 
some said you are not really nakid if you wear sandals so they
split off and formed the NDC ,... Naked Dance Community.
Perhaps you've seem a few of them as they are slowly
coming out at massives more and more lately.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

-----------------------------------

Brian Bingley wrote:
> 
> An enquirer needs to know if the initials/acronym NDC is used
> in dance circles, particularly on flyers for concerts, raves, etc.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 06:39:46 1998
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To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
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Subject: Re: MoS - kill kill kill 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 98 18:51:02 PST."
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.980122181429.412C-100000@atari> 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 22:39:42 -0800
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> I have (and PUKE on that awful buzzing in the Sasha RealAudio by the way.. 
> do they not put groundwires on UK 1200's or something?),

It's because people don't understand that you can't run standard
unbalanced audio lines longer than 10 feet w/o picking up hum... they
probably ran audio lines to the computer room instead of A/Ding
straight out of the mixer and running long AES/EBU digital lines.

I needed to lift a sample off a UK mix CD i have. It was during a quiet
portion and there was an annoying hum. ... In the UK, AC line current
is at 50Hz so I dialed up three -12dB notch filters (.10 bandwidth) at
49Hz, 50Hz, and 51Hz and no more hum! Other than that, you couldn't
tell the difference. I just love my TC Electronics Finalizer
(http://www.tcelectronic.com/finalizerplus.htm)

Same problem happened w/ the 24Hr solstice broadcast, cept at 60 and
120Hz... I'm going to take a whack at (re)mastering the masters, soon
as geoff coughs up the DATs.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 07:01:12 1998
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:57:36 -0800
From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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Subject: Re: dj messages?
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The most common message I receive from dj's goes mostly like this:

"Hi Vlad, this is DJ *&%$#@! getting back you about your event.  I have
to check my calendar to see if I'm available, I may be playing out of
town on that date.  I will have my agent send you a copy of my contract
and I will need half up front and the balance before the needle drops.
I will get back to you in a few days so you can take care of my flight
and transportation, and confirm the receipt of your money order...
sorry, no personal checks... and I will need 10 people on my guest
list.  Thanks for considering me for your event, I will get back to you
in a few days to confirm.  And please say Hi to your girlfriend for me."

Keep it Real... Vlad

fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> This is a question mostly for dj's
>
> I often here people calling djs techoshamans or such
> and that they have a message. Yet what i generally see is
> often something else. So im wondering if todays dj's feel
> like they have a message or are you more about entertaining people.
> If you have a message what is it and how do you communicate it?
>
>         ><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>                 foolish fish




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 07:15:13 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: NRR  New DJ's??
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( ha - try to filter THAT!)

well well well

so.  Titanic, most likely the movie to sweep the Oscars  (who cares?).  You
know, I gotta say

Leonardo DiCaprio and the Beautiful whatserface were very engaging - quite
fabulous to watch on screen.

However,  this was NOT the best movie ever, in contrast to what others are
saying.... yeah yeah, a few eye-catching scenes.  A little good acting,
although DiCaprio could act a whole movie by himself as Arnie Grape and I
would be hella happy.  (sheit! Why does he have to be on the cover of
People??? Why does this country have to overdo EVERYTHING close to
fantastic???).

But, I have one loud question:

WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH MUSIC IN THE MOVIES TODAY? 

There were scenes in this movie that coulda, shoulda, woulda gripped and
held me were it not for the gaddam suckky ass music they were forcing me to
listen to.  WHO picks this shit out????

Don't people making movies understand that they should cater to all of our
senses to completely draw us in???  That image combined with emotion
combined with sound and feel are best when SYNERGIZED??
NOT disjunct and antagonistic.

We need a new kind of DJ - a theater D. J. that mixes music to movies while
the movie is playing.  A DJ that will pick up on the mood of the audience
combined with the visual/audio mutualism and carry us all away on a sensual
voyage beyond the mundane hollywood tomfoolery that is being dished out. You
know, like a live video that has a really good story/scenes and vibrant
actors combined with the amazing talent and surprise of a live spinning DJ.
for the music.   Oh yeah, and everyone who saw the movie at another showing
would have a different experience...

 I'm sorry to rant like this, but sometimes I want to come out of a movie
theater experience feeling like I spent that hard-earned cash appropriately.

<yawn>
that's my epiphany for the day
la deprimida
Teresita


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 08:25:54 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:28:47 -0800
To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Hi Andy,

        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your friend's
episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP?  Fear?
Aggression?  How long did it last?

        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually sold in?

        Your "bootyflipping" comment reminds me of a great old rap single
by Ice-T I have called "I'm Your Pusher"... It starts out with a hilarious
dialogue bit that goes:

         dude:  "Yo, what's up man, I need to get high man, I need to get hold
                of some big-time dope, man, you know where I can get a key?"

        Ice-T:  "I know where you can get a LP."

         dude:  "LP, man, have you went crazy man, I'm talkin' bout some
dope man, I
                need to get high right now man, why don't you hook me up
with a 5-0?"

        Ice-T:  "I can hook you up with a 12 inch."

         dude:  "12 inch?  Man you done went crazy, you don't even know
what time it
                 is!  Out here on the streets and don't know what time it
is, man,
                 you's a fool!"

        Ice-T:  "Yo homeboy, you a fool!  You don't know what time it is,
out here
                 messin' up your mind, you know what I'm sayin'?  This is
Ice-T talkin'
                 to you boy, I'ma tell you what time it is!"

                (bust into phat rap at this point)   8)

May the vibe be with us,

                                <<< Starchild >>>


>To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this, even if I
>did write it).
>
>Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few minutes of
>research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having to deal
>with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for Phencyclidine
>(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready for the
>effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new effects...
>especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's just say,
>you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the past, and
>PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience (higher
>percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable reactions).
>
>Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I didn't
>take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine and
>Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
>considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
>sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K, and 1 hit
>of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30 minutes later
>(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a bad time
>(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half hit was
>ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
>overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because everything
>looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was admitted
>for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of them
>cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
>decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of K (which
>it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E.  Swore
>he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
>
>Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
>
>A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing number of
>"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the late
>sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became obvious
>quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
>generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people selling PCP
>and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD led to
>the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution impossible.
>
>Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage of very
>er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking out of
>handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that completely,
>but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and reduced
>sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down" from a bad
>PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest explorers.
>
>PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it to my
>cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a lot easier
>to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the reason PCP is
>no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of being "put
>under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half psychotic
>episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of sleeping
>and eating, both of which require little brain function... most people end
>up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc.
>
>Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
>(sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered aurally
>(often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a street slang
>for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing your ass
>off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to as "that
>mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is going off",
>jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so remember
>to keep those fluids coming...)
>
>There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects of PCP,
>and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known side
>effects (listed elsewhere in this post).
>
>Some other throw ins...
>
>FROM HYPERREAL.ORG
>
>Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
>448-455
>
>.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
>reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then a short
>history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog.
>
>Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present prominent body
>image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background of
>sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization, "sheer
>nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel inebriated, are
>usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
>Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their bodies and
>are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not perceive
>pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
>(especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
>hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those produced
>by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
>Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients. Perhaps the
>hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
>strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and dissociative
>properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
>hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police officers.
>This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by standing in
>front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb into a
>polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or cliffs.
>The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome mutilation
>of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser pulled
>out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her baby in
>cooking oil
>
>(andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
>individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate this type
>of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this drug...).
>
>There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both with and
>without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug users
>who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.
>
>Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially comatose.
>Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short duration of
>coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated with
>higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
>occasionally persisting as long as 10 days).
>
>The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most hallucinogens are
>ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.
>
>And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.
>
>----------- phencyclidine/PCP ------------
>hyperactive_LOC      anxiety/nervous/agitated/stimulated/excited
>disassociation       blank stare/unresponsive to pain/catatonia/"sitting
>coma"
>nystagmus            bidirectional, vertical and horizontal
>hyposecretion        dry mouth/mucous membranes
>wet_skin             diaphoresis/sweating/perspiring/hyperhydrosis/moist
>skin
>miosis               normal or constricted pupils OR
>mydriasis            dilated  (variable response)
>faciculations        twitching muscles
>hypertension         high blood pressure (at lower doses)
>hallucinations       visual and auditory
>disorientation       confusion/delirium/incoherance/psychosis
>                     psychosis may be prolonged/detachment/violent
>                     behavior/unpredictable or paranoid, combative,
>                     dissociated sensory input(including pain)
>                     impared ability to estimate 30 second time interval
>tachycardia          rapid heart/pulse
>hyperpnea            rapid respirations/hyperventilation/tachypnea
>
>
>>From a personal site hailing the finer points of the drug...
>
>"As stated above, the effects are mainly determined by the user. Some
>people experience paranoia, others have fits of rage, and others have
>great euphoria. Mood alterations are always accompanied with time,
>perception and visual hallucinations. Some people have tried the drug
>and do not agree with it, so I do not approve of the practice of telling
>people that your PCP is THC or some other hallucinogen. These drugs
>are quite potent, so use them with a great deal of respect (I think that
>overdoses have CP the bad reputation that follows it today) as bummers
>from this drug have occurred often."
>
>
>
>
>And finally:
>
>If you still have doubts about PCP, just mention it within earshot of
>anybody who has ever worked in an ICU/ER.  Although some are a little too
>funky to believe, their stories are real.
>
>Why the hell would anybody want to flip an elephant anyway?
>
>Finally, in giving everything a voice, I did find this (paragraph below, I
>start to spin some dumb yarn here)... which attempts to chip away at the
>VIOLENT REACTION MYTH (I personally have witnessed hundreds of people take
>acid, and seen three bad trips with only one requiring restraint... I've
>seen tens of people take PCP, and seen three bad trips, one of them
>requiring police intervention to subdue the individual who was throwing
>trashcans and punched several good friends while screaming
>"motherfucker... ha ha...  motherfucker . you want some?.... hahah!!!",
>the guy did seem sane before taking two hits off a dipped Sherman... you
>make the call.  The cops wouldn't even approach him when they saw him
>until three more units of backup came (2 cops per car, LAPD stylee), and
>he did not go peacefully and did not react in a sane fashion when police
>pulled their weapons and asked him to stop... so they chased him down,
>kicked his ass, and bound his wrists with two sets of handcuffs and tied
>his feet while he passionatly resisted the whole time).  Nobody got upset
>about the police treatment either, he was downright scary.
>
>
>
>This is excerpted w/o permission from _Drug Abuse and Drug Abuse
>Research_, an annual report to congress by the U.S. Dept. of Health and
>Human Services, pg. 153. (1991)
>
>        "There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that
>        have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well
>        as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel.  Both aspects
>concern
>        the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive
>        behavior.  There are reports of increased aggressiveness and
>        'super-human' strength that develop in some people who take
>        phencyclidine.
>
>        Recent studies, including those of men arrested for criminal
>        activity in Washington D.C. and New York City (Wish 1986) and
>        evaluations of published clinical reports of phencyclidine
>        intoxication (Brecher et al. 1988), indicate that if
>        phencyclidine induces violent, criminal behavior, it does so only
>        extremely infrequently.
>
>        Although Wish (1986) noted that most men who had urines positive
>        for phencyclidine were younger than those who had taken no drugs
>        or other drugs, their crimes were likely to be __less aggressive__
>        than the crimes of those who had not taken phencyclidine.
>        [emphasis added -ma]  Khajawall et al. (1982) found no
>        difference in the behavior of clients admitted for phencyclidine
>        detoxification and those admitted for opioid detoxification.
>__Thus,
>        phencylidine-induced aggression appears to be a rare phenomenon,
>        if it occurs at all__. [emph -ma]"
>
>
>Well... I'm done.  Gotta go.
>
>Peace,
>Andy
>
>p.s.    Last note... on my quicky cut and paste and anecdote adventure, I
>found this definition in a list of DRUG SLANG (which actually contained
>Domex, but not "elephant flip") at http://www.addictions.org/slang.htm
>
>Rave                    - party designed to enhance a hallucinogenic
>                          experience through music and behavior



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 08:39:14 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:39:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: DJ Messages...
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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To answer this post in a more serious manner:

I like to spin breakbeat because the syncopation makes me want to 
dance.  It works directly on my booty, bypassing all the other systems of 
the body.  The message is to let yourself roll and groove and not be 
afraid if that 4-on-the-floor beat isn't there.  The other message is to 
remember how much neet-o stuff is all around you.. that's why I like to 
play all the random samples from Charlie Brown or news broadcasts or 
whatever.  There's all sorts of fun stuff going on if you just take the 
time to boogie to it.  

Sometimes I spin something a little out of the norm.. the message is that 
it's okay to take risks and it's okay to enjoy something unexpected.  And 
sometimes I spin some jungle... the message there is that I want to make 
Lara dance :D

I still think my favorite DJ message is "Cycle Information" :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 09:19:15 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:18:40 -0800 (PST)
From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: virtualgirls
To: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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   nodes of thought floating in the digital ether,

                    tiny invisible souls built of ones and zeros


 in the flurry of data,
a connection is made,
                      then lost in the static.

    who are these sweet young things?

           little virtualgirls,
               blink and they dissappear



          the next day she posts a review

did i see her there?
did our eyes meet?
did she smile?

       i'll probably never know -
                                            


                         s'cool...





-messiah wannabe









From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 10:48:10 1998
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From: meanguy@jps.net
Subject: Not rave related...
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F.Y.I.

> This is to inform you of a very important matter currently
> under review by the FCC.  Your local  telephone company
> has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute
> charges for your internet service.  They contend that your
> usage has or will hinder the operation of the telephone
> network.  E-mail, in my opion, will diminish if users were
> required to pay additional per minute charges.  The FCC
> has created an email box for your comments, respones must
> be received by February 13, 1998.  Send your comments to
> "isp@fcc.gov" tell them what you think.  Every phone
> company is on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just
> under the wire for litigation, and screw us. Let everyone you know hear
about > this one.
> 
> Get this e-mail address to everyone you can think of:
> FCC E Mail address is isp@fcc.gov <mailto:isp@fcc.gov>







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 11:20:14 1998
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From: "Vespa Raver" <vespa_raver@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Sasha & John Digweed
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Hey there everyone!  I'm glad to hear that there are other lovers of 
Sasha and Digweed out there!!!!!!!  You guys definitely need to check 
out the first Northern Exposure album.  The place to find it (or the 
second one) is at CD Record Rack in the Castro (3897 18th Street, 
552-4990)  I wouldn't buy the eastcoast and westcoast editions of the 
second one though, or the American 1CD version of the first.  Buy the 
imports with both CDs.  And if you really like Sasha and Digweed, be 
sure to check out some of the Renaissance collections (also available at 
CD Record Rack, although they might have to order them for you).  
Renaissance 1 is with both Sasha and John Digweed, and Renaissance 2 is 
with just John Digweed.  They're both imported 3CD sets.

Also, does anyone know if their show @ 1015 is 21+, and if so, where can 
I get a cheap ID fast?  If you know this stuff, please cc 
vespa_raver@hotmail.com .  I'm only on the digest list until I get back 
up there on Sunday night!  thanks!!!!

Love,
the VespaRaver

============================================
********************************************
 "Now I wasn't looking for heaven or hell,
 just someone to listen to stories I tell."
********************************************
============================================



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 11:31:36 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:30:08 -0800
From: DJ Nick <nicholas@sirius.com>
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Hello all,

 I would like to start a record co-op just for the bay area on-line.
Here is what a co-op is:

http://www.cooperative.org/primer.htm

Since it is a community owned business, everyone saves by investing
a small amount in it (how much depends on how many people answer
this posting). I emphasize that this would be a non-profit
organization.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
What's in it for Nick? What's in it for me? What's in it for everyone?
-------------------------------------------------------------------

   So why would I want to start this? Someone needs to
run the co-op and since I have a business license, a sellers permit
and 50 megs of server space; I delegate that person to be me. This
doesn't mean I'll be "cashing in", hardly, in fact my wage would depend
on how you all respond to this post.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
How Much?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
So how much???? I can't provide the math until I assess exactly how
many people are for it. I could give you some bullshiot figure, but it
will
really depend on how many people are involved. Here's how it could
work though (a bullshoit figure anyway):

You would pay an annual "membership" fee: say $20, for example.
This would entitle you to say 20% off each record/cd you order or
decide to buy from the site. The concept is simple: the more people who
invest the greater the percentage savings (each person would actually be

a "shareholder" in the business), because we could buy music in bulk.
Now if people don't like the $20 annual thing, we could hold a party or
two to raise enough money to pay the "operations" person so they don't
starve (incidentally I am looking for work: HTML/javascript related,
any web development).

my url- http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/5583/planetnick.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what can I do?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email me the following info:

1) Tell me if it's a good/bad idea (in other words i'm for it/against
it)
2) We need a domain name: suggest one.
3) If you are for it- send me a list of your favorite record labels,
so I can contact them to see what kind of deal I can get.

In the meantime, I am encoding realaudio/video files.
We'll have this capability in addition to secure credit card
transactions. In any of you already do this, I would love some
pointers/scripts.

Thanks for reading this hella long beast post.
I hope you all are interested in forming a virtual place
that bay area people can truly call their own, no long
lines, noattitudes, just the music you want.

Thanks for all who responded to my mini first post,
N

Oh yeah, I'll be at cozy tomorrow. Is anyone else going?



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 13:22:29 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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In a message dated 1/22/98 7:51:16 PM, you wrote:

<<You just put me through 90 seconds of break to tell me I'm a fuggin
gamemaster?  What does the dancefloor look like at that point...?  Are
people happy to realize they've all just become "gamemasters"?  Are they
in self fulfilled bliss... swaying back and forth (there's no beat at this
point might I add) and trading Magic cards while others put on more
eyeliner or something??? >>
 
MY GOD SOMEONE TELL THIS GUY TO DO STAND-UP COMEDY
This is hilarious!!

=D  
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 14:43:15 1998
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From: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
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hee hee

my message would definitely be,


"If you have weak hips,"

"Dont' bother."  ;]

of course that has multiple meanings.

Depending upon what you're doing.

Or who you're with!

But yeah, if you have like arthritis in your hips.

It might be a pain in the ass to listen to me spin.  =]

Literally.

Well

see you at loveaffair

i'll have new records even.  =]

bye

muwahh.
[[[warning this message will explode in 3 seconds]]]



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 14:44:32 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: MoS - kill kill kill
To: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Cc: dsp@raven.dartmouth.edu
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---CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net> wrote:

> Ministry of Sound is the biggest leeching shitty
>lowest common denominator posey overpriced bunch of
>arse that has ever deigned to grace that city of
>insanity that is London.


Hey CAT WEASEL,

Well now, let me clean that off my boot real quick.
Since I know not of the scene MOS is in London I will
take your word for it. However, in Spain every club
I went to that had MOS attached to it. Was A: well put
together and well run. The DJ's acutally showed up on
time and spun on the nights they were designated. Try
to say that about most places here. Also the folks were
generally very nice and seemed to very into the music
which yes, was clubby but good by my standards. Sure 
there were dress codes at two of the four clubs I went
to but it was more in the lines of clothes must be
worn, apparently they were having problems with naked
folks ;), but then again this was Spain not London.
Thanks for the scoop from the London perspective
though.

LL 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 15:47:32 1998
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Subject: Sasha - That Cool *ss chick! (wink)
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Heya gang,

I don't know about some of the reviews for this dual CD (Northen Exposure 2).
Some of you are really sorta lukewarm about it, but I'm listening to the East
Coast version right now and I am really moved by it.

Am I just a sentimental sap? I think it is amazing.

oh well. I guess if I lived in the U.K. i'd be a sell out or something.

;)

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 16:18:05 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:20:43 -0800
To: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: cozy ~ DJ Trance
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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>Curious is the T&J factory going to be doing parties
>every week now?


Mac,
No, he's definitely not planning on doing weekly events.   I believe that
he got excited about doing this 2 weeks in a row is because DJ Trance is
fresh off the plane from Amsterdam, and he will only be in town for a short
while.  DJ Trance, by the way, plays gangster rap.   Just kidding!
Obviously, he's a trance dj, he plays a lot of psychedelic trance...you
know, the music that sounds like robots on DMT battling in a supermarket.
>From what I hear, he's smoking.    there is a different Trance (from LA?)
but this is an entirely different cat.

b))merang



>
>
>
>
>---Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com> wrote:
>>
>>       c       o       z       y
>>
>> a Trance & Jungle Factory affair
>> has been moved to Friday night (the 23rd)
>> This will be an intimate gathering with limited
>tickets, presale only (200
>> heads only!)
>>
>>                OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
>>
>> We are pleased to introduce
>> >-=-=->   DJ Trance from Amsterdam, Holland for his
>Bay Area premiere
>> The Bass Kru/Flux & Rinse
>> Vertigo
>> Thomas Trouble
>> Annapurna
>> Chris
>> b))merang
>>
>>                 OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
>>
>> All Ages,   $10,    10:45 pm-7am.  The party will
>be in the Berkeley area,
>> in a clean, cozy venue.  Tickets available at the
>Trance & Jungle Factory,
>> call 510-704-9876 for more details.
>> Or stop by the store at 2575 telegraph ave in
>berkeley (one block south of
>> dwight way)
>>
>>                 OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
>>
>> I am not throwing this party...please contact the
>Trance & Jungle Factory
>> for more info.
>> thanks,
>>
>> b))merang
>>
>>
>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 16:44:30 1998
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To: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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>        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your friend's
>episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP?  Fear?
>Aggression?  How long did it last?
>
>        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually sold in?


PCP is big on the east coast.  a lot of kids used it when i was in high
school, back in the 80's.  (egads did i just say that?)

As Andy said before, it usually turns OFF fear--that's the scary part.  i
don't think it makes normal people aggro.   But it does make them feel
disconnected and rubbery, as Andy said,  so the kind of guy who normally
feels aggro might feel particularly powerful and aggressive.   But I don't
imagine that if you dusted people like Jeremy Bispo, DaveQ., or Lucky Layne
.,  they would end up shooting dogs and throwing Chevy's at the fuzz.  (But
who's to say about  stepping in front of trains?)

Back in high school, I remember that kids would get their PCP in liquid
form, and soak it into parcely flakes ("Greens") or into 4:20
("loveboat"), and smoke it.   But i think it comes in other forms as well.


I had a friend whose cousin was a dusthead, and he said that scary things
started happening to her.  Over time she became particularly dumb, and
developed weird twitches in the jaw, even when straight.  And I don't mean
dumb the next day, like a hangover.

I've heard from people who have more info that all kinds of nasty stuff
goes into making it...the chemicals that are also used in animal tranqs,
rocket fuel, and embalming fluid.  I know that sounds like propaganda and
paranoia, but I've heard from several serious people that this is the case.
or at least something close to it.

i'd say stay away from it.   the thought of my friend's cousin with a fried
brain is enough to give me the willies.    You only get one brain.

b))m



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 16:45:21 1998
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To: rwpointer@citiscape.com
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: Sasha - That Cool *ss chick! (wink)
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Re: Sasha - That Cool *ss chick! (wink)



Sasha is a man, right?  is that why you winked...?

b))m



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 17:46:28 1998
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From: "adama" <adama@magicarts.com>
To: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Sasha/Digweed Northern OverExposure 2
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:42:51 -0800
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I don't understand this whole East Coast West Coast thing with NE2. Am I
missing something here? My copy of NE2 is a double CD import with a blue
cover with some yellow and white horizontal stripes and the CDs themselves
are yellow and labeled nothing more than EXP01 and EXP02. I must have a
different version or something b/c I hate it. I'm so bummed I spent $34 on
it. If anyone wants it, make me an offer.


Adam



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 7:45 AM
Subject: Sasha - That Cool *ss chick! (wink)


>Heya gang,
>
>I don't know about some of the reviews for this dual CD (Northen Exposure
2).
>Some of you are really sorta lukewarm about it, but I'm listening to the
East
>Coast version right now and I am really moved by it.
>
>Am I just a sentimental sap? I think it is amazing.
>
>oh well. I guess if I lived in the U.K. i'd be a sell out or something.
>
>;)
>
>rob.
>http://www.citizenmag.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 18:05:18 1998
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Peter Sandifer wrote:

> I've heard from people who have more info that all kinds of nasty stuff
> goes into making it...the chemicals that are also used in animal tranqs,
> rocket fuel, and embalming fluid.  I know that sounds like propaganda and
> paranoia, but I've heard from several serious people that this is the case.
> or at least something close to it.

Hahaha ... and some people here have a probelm with Marlboros ... Hahaha


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 18:14:26 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "AndyW" <andy@saturn5.com>, "Starchild" <dreamer@ziplink.net>
Cc: "Rave Friends" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:04:01 -0800
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Reminds me of the song "I'm your pusher man"

I can't remember all the lyrics..isn't that on some soundtrack
to a movie? I want to get it, it's great! But I forgot the artist.
It goes something like this:

I have got
what you need
Have some coke
Have some weed

I'm your pusher man

It's hilarious...

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
         what does it mean when someone says
            "my computer went down on me"?
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip


>Hi Andy,
>
>        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your friend's
>episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP?  Fear?
>Aggression?  How long did it last?
>
>        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually sold in?
>
>        Your "bootyflipping" comment reminds me of a great old rap single
>by Ice-T I have called "I'm Your Pusher"... It starts out with a hilarious
>dialogue bit that goes:
>
>         dude:  "Yo, what's up man, I need to get high man, I need to get
hold
>                of some big-time dope, man, you know where I can get a
key?"
>
>        Ice-T:  "I know where you can get a LP."
>
>         dude:  "LP, man, have you went crazy man, I'm talkin' bout some
>dope man, I
>                need to get high right now man, why don't you hook me up
>with a 5-0?"
>
>        Ice-T:  "I can hook you up with a 12 inch."
>
>         dude:  "12 inch?  Man you done went crazy, you don't even know
>what time it
>                 is!  Out here on the streets and don't know what time it
>is, man,
>                 you's a fool!"
>
>        Ice-T:  "Yo homeboy, you a fool!  You don't know what time it is,
>out here
>                 messin' up your mind, you know what I'm sayin'?  This is
>Ice-T talkin'
>                 to you boy, I'ma tell you what time it is!"
>
>                (bust into phat rap at this point)   8)
>
>May the vibe be with us,
>
>                                <<< Starchild >>>
>
>
>>To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this, even if I
>>did write it).
>>
>>Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few minutes of
>>research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having to deal
>>with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for Phencyclidine
>>(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready for the
>>effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new effects...
>>especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's just say,
>>you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the past, and
>>PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience (higher
>>percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable reactions).
>>
>>Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I didn't
>>take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine and
>>Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
>>considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
>>sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K, and 1 hit
>>of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30 minutes later
>>(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a bad time
>>(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half hit was
>>ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
>>overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because everything
>>looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was admitted
>>for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of them
>>cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
>>decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of K (which
>>it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E.  Swore
>>he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
>>
>>Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
>>
>>A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing number of
>>"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the late
>>sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became obvious
>>quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
>>generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people selling PCP
>>and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD led to
>>the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution impossible.
>>
>>Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage of very
>>er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking out of
>>handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that completely,
>>but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and reduced
>>sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down" from a bad
>>PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest explorers.
>>
>>PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it to my
>>cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a lot easier
>>to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the reason PCP is
>>no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of being "put
>>under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half psychotic
>>episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of sleeping
>>and eating, both of which require little brain function... most people end
>>up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc.
>>
>>Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
>>(sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered aurally
>>(often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a street slang
>>for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing your ass
>>off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to as "that
>>mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is going off",
>>jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so remember
>>to keep those fluids coming...)
>>
>>There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects of PCP,
>>and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known side
>>effects (listed elsewhere in this post).
>>
>>Some other throw ins...
>>
>>FROM HYPERREAL.ORG
>>
>>Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
>>448-455
>>
>>.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
>>reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then a short
>>history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog.
>>
>>Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present prominent body
>>image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background of
>>sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization, "sheer
>>nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel inebriated, are
>>usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
>>Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their bodies and
>>are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not perceive
>>pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
>>(especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
>>hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those produced
>>by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
>>Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients. Perhaps the
>>hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
>>strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and dissociative
>>properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
>>hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police officers.
>>This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by standing in
>>front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb into a
>>polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or cliffs.
>>The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome mutilation
>>of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser pulled
>>out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her baby in
>>cooking oil
>>
>>(andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
>>individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate this type
>>of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this drug...).
>>
>>There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both with and
>>without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug users
>>who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.
>>
>>Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially comatose.
>>Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short duration of
>>coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated with
>>higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
>>occasionally persisting as long as 10 days).
>>
>>The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most hallucinogens are
>>ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.
>>
>>And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.
>>
>>----------- phencyclidine/PCP ------------
>>hyperactive_LOC      anxiety/nervous/agitated/stimulated/excited
>>disassociation       blank stare/unresponsive to pain/catatonia/"sitting
>>coma"
>>nystagmus            bidirectional, vertical and horizontal
>>hyposecretion        dry mouth/mucous membranes
>>wet_skin             diaphoresis/sweating/perspiring/hyperhydrosis/moist
>>skin
>>miosis               normal or constricted pupils OR
>>mydriasis            dilated  (variable response)
>>faciculations        twitching muscles
>>hypertension         high blood pressure (at lower doses)
>>hallucinations       visual and auditory
>>disorientation       confusion/delirium/incoherance/psychosis
>>                     psychosis may be prolonged/detachment/violent
>>                     behavior/unpredictable or paranoid, combative,
>>                     dissociated sensory input(including pain)
>>                     impared ability to estimate 30 second time interval
>>tachycardia          rapid heart/pulse
>>hyperpnea            rapid respirations/hyperventilation/tachypnea
>>
>>
>>>From a personal site hailing the finer points of the drug...
>>
>>"As stated above, the effects are mainly determined by the user. Some
>>people experience paranoia, others have fits of rage, and others have
>>great euphoria. Mood alterations are always accompanied with time,
>>perception and visual hallucinations. Some people have tried the drug
>>and do not agree with it, so I do not approve of the practice of telling
>>people that your PCP is THC or some other hallucinogen. These drugs
>>are quite potent, so use them with a great deal of respect (I think that
>>overdoses have CP the bad reputation that follows it today) as bummers
>>from this drug have occurred often."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>And finally:
>>
>>If you still have doubts about PCP, just mention it within earshot of
>>anybody who has ever worked in an ICU/ER.  Although some are a little too
>>funky to believe, their stories are real.
>>
>>Why the hell would anybody want to flip an elephant anyway?
>>
>>Finally, in giving everything a voice, I did find this (paragraph below, I
>>start to spin some dumb yarn here)... which attempts to chip away at the
>>VIOLENT REACTION MYTH (I personally have witnessed hundreds of people take
>>acid, and seen three bad trips with only one requiring restraint... I've
>>seen tens of people take PCP, and seen three bad trips, one of them
>>requiring police intervention to subdue the individual who was throwing
>>trashcans and punched several good friends while screaming
>>"motherfucker... ha ha...  motherfucker . you want some?.... hahah!!!",
>>the guy did seem sane before taking two hits off a dipped Sherman... you
>>make the call.  The cops wouldn't even approach him when they saw him
>>until three more units of backup came (2 cops per car, LAPD stylee), and
>>he did not go peacefully and did not react in a sane fashion when police
>>pulled their weapons and asked him to stop... so they chased him down,
>>kicked his ass, and bound his wrists with two sets of handcuffs and tied
>>his feet while he passionatly resisted the whole time).  Nobody got upset
>>about the police treatment either, he was downright scary.
>>
>>
>>
>>This is excerpted w/o permission from _Drug Abuse and Drug Abuse
>>Research_, an annual report to congress by the U.S. Dept. of Health and
>>Human Services, pg. 153. (1991)
>>
>>        "There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that
>>        have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well
>>        as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel.  Both aspects
>>concern
>>        the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive
>>        behavior.  There are reports of increased aggressiveness and
>>        'super-human' strength that develop in some people who take
>>        phencyclidine.
>>
>>        Recent studies, including those of men arrested for criminal
>>        activity in Washington D.C. and New York City (Wish 1986) and
>>        evaluations of published clinical reports of phencyclidine
>>        intoxication (Brecher et al. 1988), indicate that if
>>        phencyclidine induces violent, criminal behavior, it does so only
>>        extremely infrequently.
>>
>>        Although Wish (1986) noted that most men who had urines positive
>>        for phencyclidine were younger than those who had taken no drugs
>>        or other drugs, their crimes were likely to be __less aggressive__
>>        than the crimes of those who had not taken phencyclidine.
>>        [emphasis added -ma]  Khajawall et al. (1982) found no
>>        difference in the behavior of clients admitted for phencyclidine
>>        detoxification and those admitted for opioid detoxification.
>>__Thus,
>>        phencylidine-induced aggression appears to be a rare phenomenon,
>>        if it occurs at all__. [emph -ma]"
>>
>>
>>Well... I'm done.  Gotta go.
>>
>>Peace,
>>Andy
>>
>>p.s.    Last note... on my quicky cut and paste and anecdote adventure, I
>>found this definition in a list of DRUG SLANG (which actually contained
>>Domex, but not "elephant flip") at http://www.addictions.org/slang.htm
>>
>>Rave                    - party designed to enhance a hallucinogenic
>>                          experience through music and behavior
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 18:15:56 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, <meanguy@jps.net>
Subject: NRR Re: Not rave related...
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:05:06 -0800
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Please do not pass this on, it's a bogus chain letter!

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
         what does it mean when someone says
            "my computer went down on me"?
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: meanguy@jps.net <meanguy@jps.net>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 2:46 AM
Subject: Not rave related...


>F.Y.I.
>
>> This is to inform you of a very important matter currently
>> under review by the FCC.  Your local  telephone company
>> has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute
>> charges for your internet service.  They contend that your
>> usage has or will hinder the operation of the telephone
>> network.  E-mail, in my opion, will diminish if users were
>> required to pay additional per minute charges.  The FCC
>> has created an email box for your comments, respones must
>> be received by February 13, 1998.  Send your comments to
>> "isp@fcc.gov" tell them what you think.  Every phone
>> company is on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just
>> under the wire for litigation, and screw us. Let everyone you know hear
>about > this one.
>> 
>> Get this e-mail address to everyone you can think of:
>> FCC E Mail address is isp@fcc.gov <mailto:isp@fcc.gov>
>
>
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 18:28:25 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:32:22 -0800
To: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: NRR Re: Not rave related...
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yeah...
i think i remember receiving this on another list... someone checked out
the site where it originated from (fcc site?)... and :

>>> has created an email box for your comments, respones must
>>> be received by February 13, 1998.  Send your comments to

the date actually read 1997...     only a year late.

(did a search on -isp@fcc.gov- it's all different dates in feb~  1997 and
1998... probably all bogus...)

>Please do not pass this on, it's a bogus chain letter!
>
>love kim
>.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>         what does it mean when someone says
>            "my computer went down on me"?
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: meanguy@jps.net <meanguy@jps.net>
>To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 2:46 AM
>Subject: Not rave related...
>
>
>>F.Y.I.
>>
>>> This is to inform you of a very important matter currently
>>> under review by the FCC.  Your local  telephone company
>>> has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute
>>> charges for your internet service.  They contend that your
>>> usage has or will hinder the operation of the telephone
>>> network.  E-mail, in my opion, will diminish if users were
>>> required to pay additional per minute charges.  The FCC
>>> has created an email box for your comments, respones must
>>> be received by February 13, 1998.  Send your comments to
>>> "isp@fcc.gov" tell them what you think.  Every phone
>>> company is on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just
>>> under the wire for litigation, and screw us. Let everyone you know hear
>>about > this one.
>>> 
>>> Get this e-mail address to everyone you can think of:
>>> FCC E Mail address is isp@fcc.gov <mailto:isp@fcc.gov>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 18:43:03 1998
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From: ^Faust^ <faust@grift.com>
Organization: Fleece Industries International
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To: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
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CAT WEASEL wrote:

> I think this is a common probem when people try to understand the UK scene. You may like the music that comes out of the MoS, but beieve me, you would not be supporting them if you knew what that music scene is all about in reality. Sure, listen

This has nothing to do with any scene or understanding any scene. It has nothing to do with supporting anybody. And yes,
it *is* about the music. It's not about fashion, cliques, attitudes, or snobbery. It is all about the music.

> to digweed and sasha (I'd rather not, but that's my choice) - I can even hande that their music goes off at underground events here - it's a different culture after all. But the scene for this kind of music in the UK is just the most goddam awful posey glammed up overground pop sellout shite that will dig in here then sell out and completelly fuck up any scene that there once may have been by marketing it to the masses who are oh so desperate to be cool and isn't that MoS mix CD just the bomb and they will make so much cash and be successful and just become a huge corporation ike they always stated they wanted to be.

This just sounds bitter. Get over it. Techno (as an all-encompassing term) has been overground for greater than 10 years now (speaking relative to all countries, not just the US).

> Choose wisely where you invest your cash - your future scene may depend on it.
> MoS are obviousy trying to get in on the US market as everyone hates their guts in the UK, and I'd rather the word got out now that these fukkers are so much more evi than any big "massive" organisation over here ever could be, they are only about money, not scene or community or values, they are the ENEMY ferchrissakes, backed by multinational corporations (they took a tour to china sponsored by British Associated Tobacco (the Philip Morris of the UK) to pedal their evil wares - they embrace the acohol and tobacco industry).

Don't get started on substances. You don't like *my* substances but *yours* are OK? Please. Choose wisely where you invest your cash based on the music. Not on what their massives are like.

> They are a corporation hell bent on expoiting the "cool wannabe" youth market.

Nobody is twisting anybody's arms. I would not call this exploitation by a long shot.

> Please don't listen to their website as it will give them more hits and popularity.

My whole point in the original URL posting was to let people judge for themselves instead of believing the words of one individual. Let people decide for themselves and leave it at that.

> It is possibe to get mix CDs of this cheesy house music from places other than MoS - please do. I'm not against the music, just the corporation building that's going on behind it in the UK.
> And don't get me started on cream or renaissance or back to basics...

Bitter, bitter, bitter.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 18:51:03 1998
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Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 10:51:24 -0000
x-sender: liquidhg3@liquidmercury.com
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From: * sherry * <mercury@liquidmercury.com>
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you are a very interesting person....i must say i've really "met"
anyone over the net that i would ever really want to meet.  you
seem to have a very intelegent edge and hell you know stuff
about computers...however, by your e-mails i'm assuming you
are on the east coast???


sherry




>At 10:44 AM +0000 1/22/98, * sherry * wrote:
>
>>     I just bought it yesterday and I have started reading it and plan to
>>finish is on the plane to London as I go off to study abroad for a
>>semester.  As far as I can tell  I think it will be an ok movie....hell
>>after that HACKERS movie what's stopping this!!!
>
>oh yeah, hackers was baaaaaaaaad, really really bad...  dear god i STILL
>cringe...
>
>regarding doug's experience, i just meant that he partied a lot and spent
>some time hanging out with some pretty bizarre people.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
>you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
>an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."
>
>		--from The History of Magic
>
>do-reeeeee
>http://dori.space
>http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 18:58:54 1998
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Subject: Re: NRR Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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Curtis Mayfield - Pusher Man

People really do need to learn how to edit
their posts/emails. Common sense and
common decency.

.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:

> I can't remember all the lyrics..isn't that on some soundtrack
> to a movie? I want to get it, it's great! But I forgot the artist.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:10:53 1998
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From: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
Subject: Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie ---> book
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At 10:51 AM +0000 1/23/98, * sherry * wrote:
>you are a very interesting person....i must say i've really "met"
>anyone over the net that i would ever really want to meet.  you
>seem to have a very intelegent edge and hell you know stuff
>about computers...however, by your e-mails i'm assuming you
>are on the east coast???

but of  COURSE I am!!!!!

i don't know if i really know that much about computers tho...

i fake it pretty well for the most part but I get laughed out of anything
more than "hey, blah blah blah web site"...

and i dunno if it's an "intelligent" edge either - i'm just edgy, PERIOD...

but thanks!



-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."

		--from The History of Magic

do-reeeeee
http://dori.space
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres

-------------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:19:34 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:18:42 -0800
To: laura@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Astral Matrix "Live on Haight" CD
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At 05:52 PM 1/22/98 -0000, laura@hyperreal.org wrote:
>Steve 5 wrote (about Astral Matrix):
>>It's that crazy "doof doof oontz oontz" music I've heard so much about.
>
>With a good amount of that wrrrble wrrble blurble blurble neeyook neeyook
>acid 303 sound thrown in for good measure.  

Oh, it's a Three Stooges comedy album?  Cool.

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:39:11 1998
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From: NINJARAVER <NINJARAVER@aol.com>
Message-ID: <339d831.34c8ef81@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:29:03 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: lightseed
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I'm headin' to lightseed outta San Jose.  If anybody will need a ride, drop me
a line.
So far it's just me and my Jedi Bitch.

Look for me there. I'm the long blondy guy in the blue pants with big yellow
stripes down the side.  Probably with glowsticks in orbit.  I'd love to meet
ya'll

Late
FROGMAN

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:42:42 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
Message-Id: <199801231945.LAA27212@u2.netgate.net>
Subject: Re: lightseed
To: NINJARAVER@aol.com (NINJARAVER)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:45:19 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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In-Reply-To: <339d831.34c8ef81@aol.com> from "NINJARAVER" at Jan 23, 98 02:29:03 pm
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Keen! Be sure to stop by wherever I am and get your Haze Raver Bracelet
(tm!)  If you wanna know what I look like check out my homepage:

	http://haze.netgate.net

Myself, and Rudi and a friend of mine from the city (It's his first rave,
be nice to him!!) will all be at Lightseed, kickin' it and being cool. :)

NINJARAVER wrote:
> 
> I'm headin' to lightseed outta San Jose.  If anybody will need a ride, drop me
> a line.
> So far it's just me and my Jedi Bitch.
> 
> Look for me there. I'm the long blondy guy in the blue pants with big yellow
> stripes down the side.  Probably with glowsticks in orbit.  I'd love to meet
> ya'll
> 
> Late
> FROGMAN
> 

                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:43:38 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8e915d56.34c8f2c7@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:43:01 EST
To: peter@niles.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: PCP&XTC etc etc...some chem facts
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In a message dated 1/23/98, b((mer wrote:

<<I've heard from people who have more info that all kinds of nasty stuff
goes into making it...the chemicals that are also used in animal tranqs,
rocket fuel, and embalming fluid.  I know that sounds like propaganda and
paranoia, but I've heard from several serious people that this is the case.
or at least something close to it.>>

Well, from my nerdly perspective, I guess you could say that just about
*anything* that's made chemically, including the most beneficial antibiotics
or anticancer drugs or antihypertensives, or whatever...these compounds *all*
start off being  made from some pretty nasty stuff.  I mean, stuff that causes
blindness or sterility or cancer or worse....but the beauty of chemistry (haha
at least for me ;D  ) is that you can take all these malicious chemicals and
make something very different and (usually) non-toxic from them...

So...yeah, pcp's made from really nasty stuff, but then again, just about
everything else is, too...

....hence concludes our chemistry lesson for the afternoon ....=D =D =D

Have a fun weekend!!

luv n hugs,
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:46:25 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:46:10 EST
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Subject: Re:  PCP&XTC/ etc etc
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Oh, yeah, one more thing:  

I'm with Peter with respect to the "you only get one brain" theme....

why tempt fate?? your brain's precious and it's not like you can get an
upgrade...

natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:48:11 1998
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From: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
cc: Jon Cooper <jcooper@sirius.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: 21+ events are the bane of my existence.
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I thought phunckatech moved?

-jimg

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, lara at vibe.org wrote:

> try phunckatecks on wednesday nites.
> they're 18+ and $5, drumnbass in yo face :)
> i dunno if they still use the b.a.s.s. kru line for their weekly but
> here's the b.a.s.s. kru line anyhow: 
> (415)332-5800 ext.247.
> :)~ i haven't been to phunckateck in ages, one of these dayz..
> xo
> lara
> 
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jon Cooper wrote:
> 
> > (Okay, well maybe nothing quite so dramatic.)
> > 
> > But seriously, I keep kicking myself because there are excellent
> > drum & bass events happening that I can't make it to as a result
> > of my off-by-one error in the age department.  AUGH!
> > 
> > Any recommendations for a place I can go to kick it without
> > being nixed at the door?
> > 
> > **j
> > 
> 

--skoop@slackers.net
--http://www.slackers.net/~skoop


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:50:31 1998
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To: jcooper@sirius.com
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: 21+ events DRUM n BASS are back.  Check it.....
Cc: PHUNKN3@aol.com, djflux@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  connect@sirius.com, susan@langan.net, grifem00@dons.ac.usfca.edu
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Per the question concerning drum n bass clubs for the under 21 crowd.
(original question is copied at the bottom of this post).  

If you are over 18 & you want drum n bass music to groove to --  contact
these two headz:  DJ NOEL at PHUNKN3@aol.com or DJ FLUX at
djflux@pacbell.net. They'll keep you up on the 18 and over dealios.  

Here's the last posting Noel sent out concerning 18+

PHUNCKATECK will begin in FEBRUARY @ the new location.

It'll still be 18+...and it will remain $5 ($6 for special events)
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                                >>INFO LINE 415.331.1500  ext. 160<<

Also Audio Impact will be happening again, that is d n b and 18+.  Call
1-415-332-5800 X247 for the listing of the upcomming events.  Audio Impact
is brought to you by DJ'S RINSE & FLUX of the B.A.S.S. kru.  

Peace to all, if you are not yet there 21 is not too far away, and thanks to
these crews they are keeping it real for all who are not of age and also
keepin it real for those of us who are.  

Cheers!

dmarie
Ground Score
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At 08:12 PM 1/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>(Okay, well maybe nothing quite so dramatic.)
>
>But seriously, I keep kicking myself because there are excellent
>drum & bass events happening that I can't make it to as a result
>of my off-by-one error in the age department.  AUGH!
>
>Any recommendations for a place I can go to kick it without
>being nixed at the door?
>
>**j






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:50:59 1998
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Subject: RE: lightseed
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Hey, since when am I your BITCH, huh?
So frog boy and I are attending lightseed unless
i get a better offer...  :)

>So far it's just me and my Jedi Bitch.

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

~Watching Ghost in the Shell on my pooter!!!!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:52:03 1998
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From: "Ivan Vasquez" <ivan8r@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: djr: Technics SL-1800 question
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Hi all!

I found an ad for a Technics SL-1800 turntable on the net and I was 
wondering if any of you have ever used one. Are they any good? Please 
respond privately if you can help me.

Ivan


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 19:57:25 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:00:36 -0800
To: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: MoS/nudity
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I'm not in favor of dress codes of any kind, unless they are designed to
heighten fun (i.e. you must come dressed as a member of the opposite sex),
but as codes go, "You must wear clothes to get in" seems relatively
liberal.  8)

                                <<< Starchild >>>

Layne shared (in part):

>there were dress codes at two of the four clubs I went
>to but it was more in the lines of clothes must be
>worn, apparently they were having problems with naked
>folks ;), but then again this was Spain not London.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:05:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:06:17 -0800
From: Drakonis Darkheart <drakonis@mindless.com>
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Organization: DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS
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To: NINJARAVER <NINJARAVER@aol.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: lightseed
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NINJARAVER wrote:

> I'm headin' to lightseed outta San Jose.  If anybody will need a ride, drop me
> a line.
> So far it's just me and my Jedi Bitch.
> 
> Look for me there. I'm the long blondy guy in the blue pants with big yellow
>  stripes down the side.  Probably with glowsticks in orbit.  I'd love to meet
> ya'll
>
> Late
> FROGMAN
> 
> 
>

Would you be willing to come out to Martinez to pick me up ? Or if
anyone can float me a ride to Lightseed lemme know.

-- 
Drakonis Darkheart - GABBERS OF THE WORLD UNITE !!!

DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS http://home.earthlink.net/~drakonis/index.htm

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:05:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:03:54 -0800
Subject: Re(2): cozy ~ friday night trance &  jungle factory party UPDATE  (BP)
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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I dont think so.............but check it out.........


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:10:31 1998
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     WWWHHHOOOOO!!
     
     i'm so there!
     
     look for the girl w/ superman pants.....or yellow tennis ball shoes 
     (very nice when your feeling happ-E)
     
     c-u all there
     
     love and hugs
     
     Lacie-moe-bobber


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: lightseed
Author:  Non-HP-NINJARAVER (NINJARAVER@aol.com) at HP-MountainView,shargw3
Date:    1/23/98 11:29 AM


I'm headin' to lightseed outta San Jose.  If anybody will need a ride, drop me 
a line.
So far it's just me and my Jedi Bitch.
     
Look for me there. I'm the long blondy guy in the blue pants with big yellow 
stripes down the side.  Probably with glowsticks in orbit.  I'd love to meet 
ya'll
     
Late
FROGMAN


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:24:08 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: superfly PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
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curtis mayfield, "superfly" soundtrack.  one of the best
blaxploitation soundtracks ever made.  once you get past the overt
drug references, i think the lyrics are actually rather poignant, and
a little sad.  but maybe that's implied more in the context of the
whole album.

also, to paul hayden (i can't find your address to cc this to) - the
info that pcp is available in liquid form reinforces my suspicion that
i've taken pcp and lsd together in blotter form.  whatever the fuck i
was on that night, the experience was terrifying enough to make me
quit doing drugs altogether for five years.  i'd tell y'all the story,
but it would take pages.  let's just say i did some amazingly fucked
up shit that night, straight out of the health class horror stories,
and i'm lucky to still be alive.  i really don't advise taking pcp.

kitty-flipping, on the other hand, is rather fun.

-messiah





---".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com> wrote:
>
> Reminds me of the song "I'm your pusher man"
> 
> I can't remember all the lyrics..isn't that on some soundtrack
> to a movie? I want to get it, it's great! But I forgot the artist.
> It goes something like this:
> 
> I have got
> what you need
> Have some coke
> Have some weed
> 
> I'm your pusher man
> 
> It's hilarious...
> 
> love kim
> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>          what does it mean when someone says
>             "my computer went down on me"?
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
> To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
> Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 12:23 AM
> Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
> 
> 
> >Hi Andy,
> >
> >        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your
friend's
> >episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP?  Fear?
> >Aggression?  How long did it last?
> >
> >        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually
sold in?
> >
> >        Your "bootyflipping" comment reminds me of a great old rap
single
> >by Ice-T I have called "I'm Your Pusher"... It starts out with a
hilarious
> >dialogue bit that goes:
> >
> >         dude:  "Yo, what's up man, I need to get high man, I need
to get
> hold
> >                of some big-time dope, man, you know where I can
get a
> key?"
> >
> >        Ice-T:  "I know where you can get a LP."
> >
> >         dude:  "LP, man, have you went crazy man, I'm talkin' bout
some
> >dope man, I
> >                need to get high right now man, why don't you hook
me up
> >with a 5-0?"
> >
> >        Ice-T:  "I can hook you up with a 12 inch."
> >
> >         dude:  "12 inch?  Man you done went crazy, you don't even
know
> >what time it
> >                 is!  Out here on the streets and don't know what
time it
> >is, man,
> >                 you's a fool!"
> >
> >        Ice-T:  "Yo homeboy, you a fool!  You don't know what time
it is,
> >out here
> >                 messin' up your mind, you know what I'm sayin'? 
This is
> >Ice-T talkin'
> >                 to you boy, I'ma tell you what time it is!"
> >
> >                (bust into phat rap at this point)   8)
> >
> >May the vibe be with us,
> >
> >                                <<< Starchild >>>
> >
> >
> >>To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this,
even if I
> >>did write it).
> >>
> >>Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few
minutes of
> >>research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having
to deal
> >>with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for
Phencyclidine
> >>(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready
for the
> >>effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new
effects...
> >>especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's
just say,
> >>you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the
past, and
> >>PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience
(higher
> >>percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable
reactions).
> >>
> >>Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I
didn't
> >>take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine
and
> >>Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
> >>considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
> >>sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K,
and 1 hit
> >>of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30
minutes later
> >>(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a
bad time
> >>(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half
hit was
> >>ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
> >>overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because
everything
> >>looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was
admitted
> >>for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of
them
> >>cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
> >>decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of
K (which
> >>it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E. 
Swore
> >>he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
> >>
> >>Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
> >>
> >>A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing
number of
> >>"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the
late
> >>sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became
obvious
> >>quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
> >>generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people
selling PCP
> >>and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD
led to
> >>the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution
impossible.
> >>
> >>Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage
of very
> >>er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking
out of
> >>handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that
completely,
> >>but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and
reduced
> >>sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down"
from a bad
> >>PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest
explorers.
> >>
> >>PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it
to my
> >>cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a
lot easier
> >>to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the
reason PCP is
> >>no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of
being "put
> >>under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half
psychotic
> >>episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of
sleeping
> >>and eating, both of which require little brain function... most
people end
> >>up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc.
> >>
> >>Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
> >>(sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered
aurally
> >>(often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a
street slang
> >>for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing
your ass
> >>off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to
as "that
> >>mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is
going off",
> >>jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so
remember
> >>to keep those fluids coming...)
> >>
> >>There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects
of PCP,
> >>and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known
side
> >>effects (listed elsewhere in this post).
> >>
> >>Some other throw ins...
> >>
> >>FROM HYPERREAL.ORG
> >>
> >>Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
> >>448-455
> >>
> >>.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
> >>reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then
a short
> >>history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog.
> >>
> >>Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present
prominent body
> >>image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background
of
> >>sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization,
"sheer
> >>nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel
inebriated, are
> >>usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
> >>Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their
bodies and
> >>are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not
perceive
> >>pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
> >>(especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
> >>hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those
produced
> >>by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
> >>Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients.
Perhaps the
> >>hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
> >>strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and
dissociative
> >>properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
> >>hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police
officers.
> >>This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by
standing in
> >>front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb
into a
> >>polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or
cliffs.
> >>The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome
mutilation
> >>of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser
pulled
> >>out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her
baby in
> >>cooking oil
> >>
> >>(andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
> >>individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate
this type
> >>of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this
drug...).
> >>
> >>There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both
with and
> >>without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug
users
> >>who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.
> >>
> >>Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially
comatose.
> >>Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short
duration of
> >>coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated
with
> >>higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
> >>occasionally persisting as long as 10 days).
> >>
> >>The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most
hallucinogens are
> >>ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.
> >>
> >>And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.
> >>
> 
=== message truncated ===


 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:24:29 1998
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From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
Subject: Eklektic/Dieselboy
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Hi everybody!

A quick review of last night's Eklektic w/ Dieselboy.

When we got there the resident dj's and mc's were on, playing some
nice medium-tempo drum 'n' bass.  The venue (Kate O'Brien's) is nice
although it was _jam_packed_.  Nice sound system, too, although it was
jacked up into the distortion range which muddied the bass and vocal
freestyling.

The 2nd dj up, Sage I think, played a really nice, fluid set
supporting the two mc's.  If those guys were freestyling then they
were doing well - otherwise they were about 2 steps shy of tight, but
still enjoyable to hear.

The MAIN EVENT!  When Dieselboy started up there was no mistaking it -
the beats got faster, harder, and oh so satisfying.  He laid down a
sweet set ranging from some minimal straight DnB to breaks to
urban-anxiety soundtrax (sqealing tires and alarms over DnB pounding.)
 Finished up with a DnB track so funky ya shoulda called it
Drum'n'Bootsy.  The only constant was the _intensity_.  Hope he comes
back soon!

It was odd being in an event in a bar after so many UG's, but it was
nice having hassle-free in's and out's and not worrying about getting
busted.  Really strange when the lights come on at 2am and everybody
leaves, hey, where's the party going?  But after all it was a
weeknight ...

Thanks to the Eklektic crew for a damn good show, and for bringing
some serious talent to town. See you at Lightseed!
Matt.






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:26:15 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <908babc6.34c8fbe1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:21:50 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP: DRUM & BASS THIS SATURDAY(24TH)
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PHUNCKATECK
THE LAST WORD IN FUTURE SOUNDS OF DRUM & BASS

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
This Saturday, January 24th we will be celebrating the B-days of DJs SAGE &
NOEL (and all other Aquarians..)

Come on down and enjoy good D & B...
Various Jungle Djs (NOEL, SAGE, UFO, JASON MOUSE, ABSTRACT.......)

THE TOP
424 HAIGHT ST S.F.
10-2
21+
$3 donation benefiting the poor Aquarians fund.   8}

INFO LINE 415.331.1500 ext. 160

   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:28:42 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:26:48 -0800
Subject: Re: lightseed
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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, I would love to go, I went to the thing they had in August, it was nice
to be up there.....................


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:30:36 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:19:44 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject:  Re: 21+ events are the bane of my existence.
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Lara wrote:

<<try phunckatecks on wednesday nites.
they're 18+ and $5, drumnbass in yo face :)
i dunno if they still use the b.a.s.s. kru line for their weekly but
here's the b.a.s.s. kru line anyhow: 
(415)332-5800 ext.247.
:)~ i haven't been to phunckateck in ages, one of these dayz..>>


PHUNCKATECK is in transition right now...but our info line is:

                                          415.331.1500 ext.160

We have some one-offs happening, but they are both 21+ deals (sorry....hard to
find 18+ venues these dayz).

Peace
Noel



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:33:05 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:31:07 -0800
Subject: Re: NRR  New DJ's??
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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that's cool, I ve tried that actually, and am TOTALLY into it....!!!!!!!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:40:41 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:32:54 -1000
To: sfraves@qmail.hyperreal.org
From: silent@sirius.com (silent records)
Subject: stir fri-days
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******************************** TONIGHT************************************

                        friday january 23rd, 1997

                   s  t  i  r -  f  r  i  -  d  a  y

free lunch* at san francisco's best place for local and international cuisin=
e
drum&bass + hip hop + house + dub + funk + rare grooves + soul + jazz + beat=
z

Tonights Menu:        funktafried, low cal hip-hop / drum&bass

DJ's serving it up tonight:

Jason Fluid

Sang


Come an celebrate the birth of Matt Valenz (LoveWorks/Toontown)!!!


ALL OF THIS AND MORE CAN BE FOUND AT THE CITY'S PREMIER HAPPY HOUR FOR THE
      NEWEST EXPERIMENTAL DANCE MUSIC ON EARTH... STRI FRI-DAYS

             every fri-day @ the minna street gallery
    1 1 1  m i n n a ( btwn. mission / howard / new mont. / 2nd )
                      f r o m   5  to  9  p m

                  all you can eat ! and it's free !




* DISCLAIMER
( lunch not actually free, unless you're on a strict diet of great music ! )

silent records                          (name)@silent.org
340 bryant st.                          www.silent.org
3rd floor east                          415-957-1320
san francisco, ca 94107                 fax:957-0779

                         ***UPCOMING RELEASES***

Call Sang Hwang or Matt Valenzuela for more specifics...
Thanks to all the writers/reviewers for their continued support !

*VA-Big Shots                          SR9719     December 8    2X12"/CD
label: Silent / XLR8R Tracks
Silent Records is proud to announce the fourth offering from XLR8R
magazine's excellent label.   " Big Shots " is a milestone in the evolution
of American drum and bass, with a list of Bay Area artists ranging from
Sharp Scientific to Rec Orc, from DJ Abstract to High Steppers.  Learn the
sound that is emerging from the underground depths of San Francisco's drum
'n' bass community.




                       ***PAST AND CURRENT RELEASES***

*Westside Chemical - Phibsborough      SR9732      out now      CD
label: Silent / Domestic
The long awaited release from Domestic Recordings.  Westside Chemical are
preparing to take control of your mind an speakers with their unique brand
of drum and bass.  Slightly psychedelic, melodic, and definitely influenced
by a heavy dose of dub, theirs is a totally original vibe in a world full
of imitators and bandwagoneers.  Behold the new school of the San Francisco
underground.

*Astral Matrix - Secret Broadcast      SR9731       out now        CD
label: Silent / O.O.B.E.
 In '91, Andrew Johnson came across a Roland 303.  This integral piece of
equipment ultimately helped him in the creation of both his music and his
label.  Now, nearly seven years later, Astral Matrix has become one of the
most in demand producers and performers of intelligent techno on the West
Coast & North America.  Finally, Astral Matrix's acclaimed live set is now
available on a full length CD.

*Lower Haight High Hitters-House Demon      SR9716 (Silent) out now       12=
"
label: Silent
Ragtag, renegade house music from Ben David, Davidson, and McDavid, more
strange pseudonyms of the notorious Hardkiss boys.  Here San Francisco's
most widely known exports operate undercover to secretly deliver to Silent
a slab of dancefloor weaponry.
LIMITED EDITION TEST PRESSINGS !!!  SOLD OUT !!!

*VA-Spesh Spins Trip 'n' Spin     SR9725 (Trip 'N Spin)     out now       CD
label: Silent / Trip 'n' Spin
' Spesh Spins Trip 'n Spin ' is the culmination of five years of hard labor
from one of San Francisco's original house music labels, Trip 'N Spin
Recordings.  This live DJ mix contains both classic and current styles from
the truly underground collective that is Trip 'N Spin.  This CD is a rare
chance to hear the sound of the label from it's inception to present-day,
in one continuous live mix.  Start trippin !

*Darkhorse-Darkhorse E.P.        SR9717 (Three-Sixty)       out now        1=
2"
label: Silent / Three-Sixty
' Three-Sixty are back with their third release !  After driving through
Death Valley and hitting Vegas, the Three-Sixty crew have split up to evade
=46ederal Investigators seeking them out for swindling casinos out of towels
and alcohol... '.  A quote from Three-Sixty itself, which when translated
means an more gritty funk and drum 'n bass madness from SF's newest and
most outrageous experimental dance label.

*User-Habit Form E.P.            SR9723 (Organised Noise)   out now        1=
2"
label: Silent / Organised Noise
This is the second release from San Francisco's Organised Noise and is the
debut EP from User.  User is an alias of Jon Williams and Darin Marshall,
and this record is a slice of techno-funk guaranteed to rock floors and
minds.  From the title track to the b-sides ' Reckless Zoom ' and '
Urgionomics ', Organised Noise is attaining the level of similar quality
techno labels from Detroit to London and beyond.

*Tim 'Love' Lee-Confessions of a Selector
SR9718                                                   out now           C=
D
label: Silent / Three-Sixty
SF's 360 & Tim Love Lee has gotten their act together on this CD. Funky,
melodic, and sometimes just twisted, "Confessions Of A Selector" is the
90's soundtrack for life in the 70's.  As one reviewer put it, " '
Confessions ' makes me want to get naked and watch Bullitt at 6am with a
tall boy of ice cold Coors and Hunter S. Thompson at my side..."  The
effect will be different for some, but the groove is universal.

*Astral Matrix-#6                SR9718               out now          12"
label: Silent / O.O.B.E.
Straight outta San Francisco's underground, Astral Matrix's sixth 12" adds
another thumpin' chapter to the OOBE catalog.  A solid four tracker, '
Number Six ' covers a lot of territory.  From the lush technological cut '
Bass Faerie ' to the darkly percussive and minimal track ' Triangles ',
this EP is yet another achievement for this excellent local artist.

*Jondi & Spesh-We Are Connected  SR9722                out now          12"
Inspired by the Sweet! parties and ' Live at Half moon Bay ' show, this is
the second EP in the collaboration between Trip 'N Spin and Silent.  Floor
rocking trancey house with a left-coast feel.  Remixes by NovaBass.

*VA-Combine EP                 SR9714                    out now         12"
label: Silent / Organised Noise
Some of the best straight up techno west of Carl Craig, Stacey Pullen, Ian
Pooley, Derrick May, etc. All of whom are dropping it in their sets...

*VA-East Bay Conspiracy EP     SR9713                    out now          12=
"
label: Silent / Trip 'n Spin
=46eaturing the likes of ETI, Jondi & Spesh, Nick Kelly & Cave Dwellers...
A intense contribution to the San Francisco/West Coast House Movement
Deconstruction meets Hardkiss

*Various Artists-Skampler      SR9708                   out now         CD
label: Silent / Skam
ONLY PLACE TO GET AUTCHERE'S GESCOM, ET.AL. ON CD
Autechere=3DWarp (the label)=3D released by TVT=3D Gescom=3DOwners of SKAM

*Epsilon-The Black Hole SR9712                          out now          12"
label: Silent / SoundSphere Recordings
Wicked brit-style dark jungle by the artist that has surprised most
junglist with his debut appearance on several UK playlists... No U-Turn
meets Penny Black

*Mammal-The Big Ten-Four EP    SR9711                    out now         12"
label: Silent / Three-Sixty
Speaking of wicked... Thomas of Wicked Productions presents us with the
debut release as Mammal... Downtempo funk with raw/intelligent grooves

*Various Artist-Drum Kicks EP   SR9710                    out now         12=
"
label: Silent / XLR8R Tracks
Hot Sequel to Bad Brakes EP; more of that soothing ;) west coast sound with
a wee bit of attitude for good measure...

*Various Artists-BAD BREAKS EP  SR9709   12"              out now         12=
"
label: Silent / XLR8R Tracks
Mutha Beep-Beep by Professor Smith has charted in the UK; CMJ RPM and Jackpo=
t
Reviews by Deep Dish (favorable) in MixMagUS;
1ST PRESSING SOLD OUT!!!

*Makyo-Rasa Bhava: sr9606
label: Silent
Incredibly powerful piece/includes a Bill Laswell remix... referred to this
new sound as Indihop and zen dub... Write-ups in the Wire, Fix, etc.
Reviews as shown plus...

*Various Artist-Land of Baboon (an illclectic brooklyn collection): sr9607
label: Silent
in cover stories by Option and the Wire/ranging from Dub to jungle to
trip-hop to ambient-dub/write-ups (artists and/or release) in the Wire,
Option, etc

silent records                          (name)@silent.org
340 bryant st.                          www.silent.org
3rd floor east                          415-957-1320
san francisco, ca 94107                 fax:957-0779

                         ***UPCOMING RELEASES***

Call Sang Hwang or Matt Valenzuela for more specifics...
Thanks to all the writers/reviewers for their continued support !

*VA-Big Shots                          SR9719     December 8    2X12"/CD
label: Silent / XLR8R Tracks
Silent Records is proud to announce the fourth offering from XLR8R
magazine's excellent label.   " Big Shots " is a milestone in the evolution
of American drum and bass, with a list of Bay Area artists ranging from
Sharp Scientific to Rec Orc, from DJ Abstract to High Steppers.  Learn the
sound that is emerging from the underground depths of San Francisco's drum
'n' bass community.
=46ORTHCOMING REVIEWS IN: CMJ ( rpm pick of the week ! ), MIXMAG USA, XLR8R,
PHAZER



                      ***PAST AND CURRENT RELEASES***

*Westside Chemical - Phibsborough      SR9732      out now      CD
label: Silent / Domestic
The long awaited release from Domestic Recordings.  Westside Chemical are
preparing to take control of your mind an speakers with their unique brand
of drum and bass.  Slightly psychedelic, melodic, and definitely influenced
by a heavy dose of dub, theirs is a totally original vibe in a world full
of imitators and bandwagoneers.  Behold the new school of the San Francisco
underground.
=46ORTHCOMING REVIEWS IN: MIXMAG USA, XLR8R

*Astral Matrix - Secret Broadcast      SR9731       out now        CD
label: Silent / O.O.B.E.
 In '91, Andrew Johnson came across a Roland 303.  This integral piece of
equipment ultimately helped him in the creation of both his music and his
label.  Now, nearly seven years later, Astral Matrix has become one of the
most in demand producers and performers of intelligent techno on the West
Coast & North America.  Finally, Astral Matrix's acclaimed live set is now
available on a full length CD.
=46ORTHCOMING REVIEWS IN: SWEATER, MIXMAG USA, XLR8R, URB

*Lower Haight High Hitters-House Demon      SR9716 (Silent) out now       12=
"
label: Silent
Ragtag, renegade house music from Ben David, Davidson, and McDavid,
mysterious aliases of some of San Francisco's most well known artists.
Here they operate undercover to secretly deliver to Silent a slab of
dancefloor weaponry.
LIMITED EDITION TEST PRESSINGS !!!  SOLD OUT !!!
( available for full release January 1998 )

*VA-Spesh Spins Trip 'n' Spin     SR9725 (Trip 'N Spin)     out now       CD
label: Silent / Trip 'n' Spin
' Spesh Spins Trip 'n Spin ' is the culmination of five years of hard labor
from one of San Francisco's original house music labels, Trip 'N Spin
Recordings.  This live DJ mix contains both classic and current styles from
the truly underground collective that is Trip 'N Spin.  This CD is a rare
chance to hear the sound of the label from it's inception to present-day,
in one continuous live mix.  Start trippin !
=46ORTHCOMING REVIEWS IN: MIXMAG USA, XLR8R

*Darkhorse-Darkhorse E.P.        SR9717 (Three-Sixty)       out now        1=
2"
label: Silent / Three-Sixty
' Three-Sixty are back with their third release !  After driving through
Death Valley and hitting Vegas, the Three-Sixty crew have split up to evade
=46ederal Investigators seeking them out for swindling casinos out of towels
and alcohol... '.  A quote from Three-Sixty itself, which when translated
means an more gritty funk and drum 'n bass madness from SF's newest and
most outrageous experimental dance label.
=46ORTHCOMING REVIEWS IN: URB, XLR8R

*User-Habit Form E.P.            SR9723 (Organised Noise)   out now        1=
2"
label: Silent / Organised Noise
This is the second release from San Francisco's Organised Noise and is the
debut EP from User.  User is an alias of Jon Williams and Darin Marshall,
and this record is a slice of techno-funk guaranteed to rock floors and
minds.  From the title track to the b-sides ' Reckless Zoom ' and '
Urgionomics ', Organised Noise is attaining the level of similar quality
techno labels from Detroit to London and beyond.
=46ORTHCOMING REVIEWS IN: LOTUS, RESONANCE, XLR8R

*Tim 'Love' Lee-Confessions of a Selector
SR9718                                                   out now           C=
D
label: Silent / Three-Sixty
SF's 360 & Tim Love Lee has gotten their act together on this CD. Funky,
melodic, and sometimes just twisted, "Confessions Of A Selector" is the
90's soundtrack for life in the 70's.  As one reviewer put it, " '
Confessions ' makes me want to get naked and watch Bullitt at 6am with a
tall boy of ice cold Coors and Hunter S. Thompson at my side..."  The
effect will be different for some, but the groove is universal.
=46ORTHCOMING REVIEWS IN: MIXMAG USA, CMJ, ALTERNATIVE PRESS, STREETSOUNDS,
XLR8R, URB, SWEATER, OPTION, LOTUS, EXCLAIM ( CAN )

*Astral Matrix-#6                SR9718               out now          12"
label: Silent / O.O.B.E.
Straight outta San Francisco's underground, Astral Matrix's sixth 12" adds
another thumpin' chapter to the OOBE catalog.  A solid four tracker, '
Number Six ' covers a lot of territory.  From the lush technological cut '
Bass Faerie ' to the darkly percussive and minimal track ' Triangles ',
this EP is yet another achievement for this excellent local artist.
REVIEWS IN: LOTUS, ALTERNATIVE PRESS

*Jondi & Spesh-We Are Connected  SR9722                out now          12"
Inspired by the Sweet! parties and ' Live at Half moon Bay ' show, this is
the second EP in the collaboration between Trip 'N Spin and Silent.  Floor
rocking trancey house with a left-coast feel.  Remixes by NovaBass.
REVIEWS IN: XLR8R, MAGIC FEET, OCTOPUS (FR ), GROOVE ( GER )

*VA-Combine EP                 SR9714                    out now         12"
label: Silent / Organised Noise
Some of the best straight up techno west of Carl Craig, Stacey Pullen, Ian
Pooley, Derrick May, etc. All of whom are dropping it in their sets...
REVIEWS IN: XLR8R, MAGIC FEET ( UK ), OCTOPUS ( FR ), GROOVE ( GER ), LOTUS

*VA-East Bay Conspiracy EP     SR9713                    out now          12=
"
label: Silent / Trip 'n Spin
=46eaturing the likes of ETI, Jondi & Spesh, Nick Kelly & Cave Dwellers...
A intense contribution to the San Francisco/West Coast House Movement
Deconstruction meets Hardkiss

*Various Artists-Skampler      SR9708                   out now         CD
label: Silent / Skam
ONLY PLACE TO GET AUTCHERE'S GESCOM, ET.AL. ON CD
Autechere=3DWarp (the label)=3D released by TVT=3D Gescom=3DOwners of SKAM
REVIEWS IN: RETINA, RAYGUN, LOTUS, ALTERNATIVE PRESS, XLR8R, MAGIC FEET (
UK ), octopus ( FR ), GROOVE ( GER ), SWEATER, STREETSOUND, VICE ( CAN ),
THE WIRE ( UK ), MELODY MAKER ( UK )

*Epsilon-The Black Hole SR9712                          out now          12"
label: Silent / SoundSphere Recordings
Wicked brit-style dark jungle by the artist that has surprised most
junglist with his debut appearance on several UK playlists... No U-Turn
meets Penny Black
REVIEWS IN: MAGNET, XLR8R, MAGIC FEET ( UK ), OCTOPUS ( FR ), GROOVE ( GER
), RETINA

*Mammal-The Big Ten-Four EP    SR9711                    out now         12"
label: Silent / Three-Sixty
Speaking of wicked... Thomas of Wicked Productions presents us with the
debut release as Mammal... Downtempo funk with raw/intelligent grooves
REVIEWS IN: DJ, LOTUS, XLR8R, MAGIC FEET, OCTOPUS ( FR ), RESONANCE, RETINA

*Various Artist-Drum Kick EP   SR9710                    out now         12"
label: Silent / XLR8R Tracks
Hot Sequel to Bad Brakes EP; more of that soothing ;) west coast sound with
a wee bit of attitude for good measure...
REVIEWS IN: DJ, LOTUS, MAGIC FEET ( UK ), STREETSOUND, VICE ( CANADA )

*Various Artists-BAD BREAKS EP  SR9709   12"              out now         12=
"
label: Silent / XLR8R Tracks
Mutha Beep-Beep by Professor Smith has charted in the UK; CMJ RPM and Jackpo=
t
Reviews by Deep Dish (favorable) in MixMagUS;
1ST PRESSING SOLD OUT!!!

*Makyo-Rasa Bhava: sr9606
label: Silent
Incredibly powerful piece/includes a Bill Laswell remix... referred to this
new sound as Indihop and zen dub... Write-ups in the Wire, Fix, etc.
Reviews as shown plus...

*Various Artist-Land of Baboon (an illclectic brooklyn collection): sr9607
label: Silent
in cover stories by Option and the Wire/ranging from Dub to jungle to
trip-hop to ambient-dub/write-ups (artists and/or release) in the Wire,
Option, etc



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:41:00 1998
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From: "moki4u2c@hotmail.com" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: OBO on the Sasha & Digweed
Reply-To: Steven_Allas.oramail@apollogrp.edu
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<<<I don't understand this whole East Coast West Coast thing with NE2. Am I
missing something here? My copy of NE2 is a double CD import with a blue
cover with some yellow and white horizontal stripes and the CDs themselves
are yellow and labeled nothing more than EXP01 and EXP02. I must have a
different version or something b/c I hate it. I'm so bummed I spent $34 on
it. If anyone wants it, make me an offer.>>>

Adam>>>

Hey Adama, I'll give ya a quarter for it?

;-)
moki


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:45:48 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:45:38 -0500
To: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>, peter@niles.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: b e n c h u n <benchun@MIT.EDU>
Subject: brain upgrade
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At 02:46 PM 1/23/98 EST, Natasha426 wrote:
>why tempt fate?? your brain's precious and it's not like you can get an
>upgrade...

until now, that was true. now, benchun enterprises (the people who brought
you the transparent ceiling-mounted pulldown smoker's helmet) brings you
brain++. that's right, if you only have a brain, it's time to UPGRADE!

our new brain++ features over twice the storage capacity, processing power
and a new organizational structure! (some older data may be incompatible.)
in addition, this is the first time we have been able to offer telepathic
capabilities at a price that anyone can afford! don't miss it! join the
global conciousness today!


. . . . . . .
benchun@mit.edu
http://mdma.mit.edu/

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:49:09 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:49:45
From: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
To: faust@grift.com,
Subject: Re: MoS - kill kill kill
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faust@grift.com wrote:
> CAT WEASEL wrote:
> 
> > I think this is a common probem when people try to understand the UK scene.
> You may like the music that comes out of the MoS, but beieve me, you would not
> be supporting them if you knew what that music scene is all about in reality.
> Sure, listen
> 
> This has nothing to do with any scene or understanding any scene. It has nothing
> to do with supporting anybody. And yes,
> it *is* about the music. It's not about fashion, cliques, attitudes, or
> snobbery. It is all about the music.

No, it is not. I have not dissed this music. If you like it, I have no problem with that. It's the peddlers of the scene that this music is based around in the UK that I have a problem with. And MOS and all the corporate superclub empires are just in it for the money. Which goes against everything I hold dear in a music scene. And I would hope that anyone who has enjoyed underground parties would realise, supporting people who care about a scene is a much more worthy cause than supporting a huge money-grabbing corporation.
 
> > to digweed and sasha (I'd rather not, but that's my choice) - I can even hande
> that their music goes off at underground events here - it's a different culture
> after all. But the scene for this kind of music in the UK is just the most
> goddam awful posey glammed up overground pop sellout shite that will dig in here
> then sell out and completelly fuck up any scene that there once may have been by
> marketing it to the masses who are oh so desperate to be cool and isn't that MoS
> mix CD just the bomb and they will make so much cash and be successful and just
> become a huge corporation ike they always stated they wanted to be.
> 
> This just sounds bitter. Get over it. Techno (as an all-encompassing term) has
> been overground for greater than 10 years now (speaking relative to all
> countries, not just the US).

You don't think there's an underground out there anymore? Jesus, where have you been? Even in the UK there is a thriving house underground, leaving the commercial superclubs miles behind in terms of vibe and frindliness and caring attitude. Evil Eddie Richards and Terry Francis of Wiggle to name but one underground club that keeps it so real it hurts.

> 
> > Choose wisely where you invest your cash - your future scene may depend on it.
> > MoS are obviousy trying to get in on the US market as everyone hates their
> guts in the UK, and I'd rather the word got out now that these fukkers are so
> much more evi than any big "massive" organisation over here ever could be, they
> are only about money, not scene or community or values, they are the ENEMY
> ferchrissakes, backed by multinational corporations (they took a tour to china
> sponsored by British Associated Tobacco (the Philip Morris of the UK) to pedal
> their evil wares - they embrace the acohol and tobacco industry).
> 
> Don't get started on substances. You don't like *my* substances but *yours* are
> OK? Please. Choose wisely where you invest your cash based on the music. Not on
> what their massives are like.

You have not read what I said. I don't disagree with alcohol and tobacco (on the contrary, I'm all for them), but the whole industry thing whereby the alcohol and tobacco industries are heavily funding the whole marujuana etc.. prohibition movement is just plain wrong. And I don't agree with mass psychology trying to convince people to take more drugs (be it alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, XTC, whatever). Misery of pound are heavily involved in this, completely in the pocket of these "legal" industries.

> > They are a corporation hell bent on expoiting the "cool wannabe" youth market.
> 
> Nobody is twisting anybody's arms. I would not call this exploitation by a long
> shot.
> 
> > Please don't listen to their website as it will give them more hits and
> popularity.
> 
> My whole point in the original URL posting was to let people judge for
> themselves instead of believing the words of one individual. Let people decide
> for themselves and leave it at that.
> Bitter, bitter, bitter.

I'm not bitter at all - this music is not my kind of stuff. I'm trying to get the message across that Ministry of $ound and their kind are setting their greedy eyes on the US scene as they are laughed at openly in the UK scene, and they are going to come over here and fuck it over bigtime. You can choose to support them with your money if you want, I'd just thought you could quite easily get the same music from a more ethical source. It's your choice as a consumer - YOU have to take responsibility for where your dollar goes. No use going to massive after massive and then complaining that the underground scene ain't what it used to be.

I'm not going to continue on this thread anymore - if you don't see what it wrong with corporate clubbing culture then I give in and await the complaints when your music scene is full of joe six packs giving out attitude. I've seen it before and I'll see it again.

Elitist, me? Hell yeah.

C@weasel


Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 20:49:22 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:39:40 EST
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Subject: RE: lightseed
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Somebody wrote:

Would you be willing to come out to Martinez to pick me up ? Or if
anyone can float me a ride to Lightseed lemme know.

Where's Martinez?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 21:02:30 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:05:16 -0800
To: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
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Hi Peter,

        My replies below...

>i was posting this as a favour for a friend and the trance and factory.  :o)
>truth be told, i don't belief that all the dj's  were confirmed when he
>asked me to post this.
>except me.   and i didn't want to mention that, because people migh think
>I'm weird.   :o)

        I wouldn't get on you for that... as far as I'm concerned it's
totally cool to toot your own horn if you've already put BSP in the post
and it's something you think people are likely to be interested in.

>but shucks, what's wrong with a little mystery?

        Nothing, if it's in a novel by Agatha Christie... could be plenty
if you're expecting to pay $5 and drive across the bay to find it's $15 and
you don't have the cash or something.

as mentioned, it's a
>cozy party.   this means that if i had been foolish, i would have mentioned
>that Sasha ,Digweed and Carl Cox will make a surprise appearance, and then
>the  place would have been flooded with thousands of crazed ravers trying
>to fit into a 200 person venue, thus taking the "cozy" and "intimate" feel
>out of the party.   :o)
>
>besides, as I said, "please call 510-704-9876 to get the dj line-up and to
>inquire about tickets."   :o)

        If the goal is to keep attendance down, I still don't understand
why you would want to say something like "an  i n t i m a t e  affair so
discreet that we can't even announce the dj's here."  It makes your
announcement sound like an ad for one of those big sporting goods sales at
the Cow Palace or something:  "Prices *so low* we can't quote them over the
air!!!"  These kind of ads are designed to get *more* people to show up,
not less.  If you knew all the DJ's were not confirmed yet, why not just
say so?

>used to be a time when the less you knew about a party, the more exciting
>it was.  nowadays, kids need 4-color 4-fold 4-star fliers in order to make
>it worth their while.  young whippersnappers these days...  :o)

        Oh come now, I said nothing of the kind!  But give yourself 10 pot
brownie points for use of the word "whippersnappers".  8)

>you can call the trance and jungle factory at 510-704-9876,
>as i mentioned earlier.   Their number is 510-704-9876.    they will have
>info on the dj lineup, if you call 510-704-9876.    there will be tap
>water.   you can even bring your own tap.  it is an all ages event in the
>berkeley area.  you can smoke, but i personally don't recommend it.  hours
>will be typical rave hours,  which often happen from mid-evening to early
>morning, usually until sunrise.  there will be a roof and 4 walls.  :o)

        This is much better, although I still don't see cost info listed.

May the vibe be with us,

                                <<< Starchild >>>

You shared:

>this party is a small and intimate event.  there are no fliers.
>you might  call it "word of mouth"...and this is some sort of "teaser",
>intended to "tease" people into looking further.  please call the number.
>(510-704-9876)  if you feel teased.    :o)
>
>thanks much!   :o)
>
>b))merangBTW, you can reach the T & J Factory at 510-704-9876.    :o)
>
>
>
>>        This post makes little sense to me except as an advertising teaser
>>designed to arouse interest.  Why post about a party, including a phone
>>number to get the full info, if it's "so discreet" you can't give the info
>>out over the list?
>>
>>        Since there is an SFRaves calendar for this stuff, if you're going
>>to post a BSP to the list as well, please at least make it worth our while
>>to read by giving us the full scoop:  Cost, ages allowed in,
>>smoking/no-smoking, water/no-water, general location of event (i.e. 15
>>minutes from S.F. in east bay), hours, DJs/extras, am I missing anything?
>>
>>                                <<< Starchild >>>
>>
>>>       c       o       z       y
>>>
>>>s a t u r d a y,  j a n u a r y   2 4
>>>
>>>      an   i n t i m a t e  affair
>>>               so discreet
>>>that we can't even announce the dj's here.
>>>please call 510-704-9876 to get the dj line-up
>>>       and to inquire about tickets.
>>>
>>>   very limited tickets, pre-sale only.
>>> available at the trancefactory record
>>>store, 2575 telegraph ave in berkeley
>>>  (one block south of dwight way)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 21:16:30 1998
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From: Rudi Rughoonundon <rudir@aimnet.com>
Message-Id: <199801232116.NAA19630@aimnet.com>
Subject: south bay gathering before lightseed for dinner ??
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:16:08 -0800 (PST)
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Given that there are at least like 6 of us going to
lightseed from the south bay would you guys like to get
together for dinner and then we can meet up there to
rock the party ...

its time for the south bay to assert itself in the scene IMNSHO

Let me know what you think ... i would be willing to organise
if you happy folks want to show up ...

peace, love, dancing and really loud musik,

:)

Rudi

p.s. haze what do we do for tix girl ? call me at work
at either 765-2693 or 765-5457 so we can work something out

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 21:25:04 1998
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Subject: Re: south bay gathering before lightseed for dinner ??
To: rudir@aimnet.com (Rudi Rughoonundon)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:27:54 -0800 (PST)
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I'd be all for this.  This way we could meet each other ahead of time
instead of having to try to hunt through several hundred (thousand?)
people to find one person. :)

So Rudi, oh mighty idea maker.  Where and when? :)

Rudi Rughoonundon wrote:
> 
> Given that there are at least like 6 of us going to
> lightseed from the south bay would you guys like to get
> together for dinner and then we can meet up there to
> rock the party ...
> 
> its time for the south bay to assert itself in the scene IMNSHO
> 
> Let me know what you think ... i would be willing to organise
> if you happy folks want to show up ...
> 
> peace, love, dancing and really loud musik,
> 
> :)
> 
> Rudi
> 
> p.s. haze what do we do for tix girl ? call me at work
> at either 765-2693 or 765-5457 so we can work something out
> 



                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 21:32:33 1998
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From: Eric Bidinger <bidinger@leland.Stanford.EDU>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Lightseed
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Hey all,
i am new to the list, just got back from Bangkok where i dragged my
dancing shoes to some of the coolest parties that i have ever been to.
If any one get a chance to check out the party scene in Bangkok, please do
so, it's like Ibiza used to be 10 years ago.
now that i am here in college, i am bored as hell and i need a good party
to elevate my spirit.  i was thinking about going to Lightseed since
you all
are talking about it but above all, i need a good hit...  DAMN!!!  school
can be boring when you can not seriously rave on week ends.
I'll probably be wearing black nylon pants with some pretty awesome
platform shoes that I found in Paris (HE HE HE!).  So please don't leave
me alone; this is a cry for help.
If Mitsy can read me, Mitsy, I miss you, I hope you'll be there saturday.

Love you all

Eric



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 21:46:53 1998
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To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Eklektic / Dieselboy Review and a short PSA
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:45:16 -0800
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damn glad i cut from work for this one. and everyone else that was
there; missed their favorite TV show, blew off quality time with the
significant other, decided to put off that triple by-pass open heart
surgery, whatever, it was the RIGHT 100% things to do, because...

rinse played some phat rolling beats, a lot of new stuff or at least new
to me and it was all good. there  was some sort of problem early which
caused the sound to cut. i heard someone say something about going home
for a power strip. but it turned out to be perfect timing for a smoke
break. 420 seconds later the sound got sorted out.

lemme tell you something about sage... that girl goes off. seriously
sick table skillz, she also played some nice dark beats. with phluid
dropping lyrics over and between, i'd say most of headz were suitably
blown off.  i'd seen both sage and phluid work before, but not together.
it was damn cool to hear.

i can only imagine that the bass cru / friday the 13th event is going to
be ballistic!

i'd been wanting to see dieselboy for a while now. i'd heard last roll
through, he didn't deliver quite what my friend came to expect. but last
night he made up for that and then some. he kept headz bobbing, moving
and dancing until close (2am is way too early for this shit!). and even
then, the place was still wall to wall and nobody wanted it to be over.
best and worse way for a party to end.

and finally, my little PSA:

<picture me standing in a meadow next to a babbling brook, the national
anthem hummed softly by a boy scout troop from montana>
the dj's in this city are doing something good, something to be proud
of, and something we can all share. if you haven't been out to see some
of these kids, go. you'll be glad you did...





 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 21:47:37 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:42:06 EST
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Subject: Cozy tonight
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Hey;

I'm going out to Cozy from S.F. tonight.  Carpool anyone?  

LaurenG
Powder's the drug......
440-2347

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 22:01:04 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:03:40 -0800
To: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: chris <chris@thirdage.com>
Subject: re: superfly PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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Wow, you'll have to tell me your pcp story one of these days. What's
kitty-flipping?



At 12:23 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>
>curtis mayfield, "superfly" soundtrack.  one of the best
>blaxploitation soundtracks ever made.  once you get past the overt
>drug references, i think the lyrics are actually rather poignant, and
>a little sad.  but maybe that's implied more in the context of the
>whole album.
>
>also, to paul hayden (i can't find your address to cc this to) - the
>info that pcp is available in liquid form reinforces my suspicion that
>i've taken pcp and lsd together in blotter form.  whatever the fuck i
>was on that night, the experience was terrifying enough to make me
>quit doing drugs altogether for five years.  i'd tell y'all the story,
>but it would take pages.  let's just say i did some amazingly fucked
>up shit that night, straight out of the health class horror stories,
>and i'm lucky to still be alive.  i really don't advise taking pcp.
>
>kitty-flipping, on the other hand, is rather fun.
>
>-messiah
>
>
>
>
>
>---".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com> wrote:
>>
>> Reminds me of the song "I'm your pusher man"
>> 
>> I can't remember all the lyrics..isn't that on some soundtrack
>> to a movie? I want to get it, it's great! But I forgot the artist.
>> It goes something like this:
>> 
>> I have got
>> what you need
>> Have some coke
>> Have some weed
>> 
>> I'm your pusher man
>> 
>> It's hilarious...
>> 
>> love kim
>> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>>          what does it mean when someone says
>>             "my computer went down on me"?
>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
>> To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
>> Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 12:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
>> 
>> 
>> >Hi Andy,
>> >
>> >        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your
>friend's
>> >episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP?  Fear?
>> >Aggression?  How long did it last?
>> >
>> >        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually
>sold in?
>> >
>> >        Your "bootyflipping" comment reminds me of a great old rap
>single
>> >by Ice-T I have called "I'm Your Pusher"... It starts out with a
>hilarious
>> >dialogue bit that goes:
>> >
>> >         dude:  "Yo, what's up man, I need to get high man, I need
>to get
>> hold
>> >                of some big-time dope, man, you know where I can
>get a
>> key?"
>> >
>> >        Ice-T:  "I know where you can get a LP."
>> >
>> >         dude:  "LP, man, have you went crazy man, I'm talkin' bout
>some
>> >dope man, I
>> >                need to get high right now man, why don't you hook
>me up
>> >with a 5-0?"
>> >
>> >        Ice-T:  "I can hook you up with a 12 inch."
>> >
>> >         dude:  "12 inch?  Man you done went crazy, you don't even
>know
>> >what time it
>> >                 is!  Out here on the streets and don't know what
>time it
>> >is, man,
>> >                 you's a fool!"
>> >
>> >        Ice-T:  "Yo homeboy, you a fool!  You don't know what time
>it is,
>> >out here
>> >                 messin' up your mind, you know what I'm sayin'? 
>This is
>> >Ice-T talkin'
>> >                 to you boy, I'ma tell you what time it is!"
>> >
>> >                (bust into phat rap at this point)   8)
>> >
>> >May the vibe be with us,
>> >
>> >                                <<< Starchild >>>
>> >
>> >
>> >>To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this,
>even if I
>> >>did write it).
>> >>
>> >>Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few
>minutes of
>> >>research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having
>to deal
>> >>with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for
>Phencyclidine
>> >>(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready
>for the
>> >>effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new
>effects...
>> >>especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's
>just say,
>> >>you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the
>past, and
>> >>PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience
>(higher
>> >>percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable
>reactions).
>> >>
>> >>Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I
>didn't
>> >>take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine
>and
>> >>Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
>> >>considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
>> >>sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K,
>and 1 hit
>> >>of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30
>minutes later
>> >>(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a
>bad time
>> >>(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half
>hit was
>> >>ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
>> >>overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because
>everything
>> >>looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was
>admitted
>> >>for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of
>them
>> >>cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
>> >>decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of
>K (which
>> >>it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E. 
>Swore
>> >>he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
>> >>
>> >>Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
>> >>
>> >>A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing
>number of
>> >>"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the
>late
>> >>sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became
>obvious
>> >>quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
>> >>generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people
>selling PCP
>> >>and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD
>led to
>> >>the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution
>impossible.
>> >>
>> >>Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage
>of very
>> >>er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking
>out of
>> >>handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that
>completely,
>> >>but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and
>reduced
>> >>sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down"
>from a bad
>> >>PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest
>explorers.
>> >>
>> >>PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it
>to my
>> >>cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a
>lot easier
>> >>to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the
>reason PCP is
>> >>no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of
>being "put
>> >>under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half
>psychotic
>> >>episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of
>sleeping
>> >>and eating, both of which require little brain function... most
>people end
>> >>up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc.
>> >>
>> >>Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
>> >>(sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered
>aurally
>> >>(often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a
>street slang
>> >>for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing
>your ass
>> >>off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to
>as "that
>> >>mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is
>going off",
>> >>jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so
>remember
>> >>to keep those fluids coming...)
>> >>
>> >>There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects
>of PCP,
>> >>and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known
>side
>> >>effects (listed elsewhere in this post).
>> >>
>> >>Some other throw ins...
>> >>
>> >>FROM HYPERREAL.ORG
>> >>
>> >>Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
>> >>448-455
>> >>
>> >>.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
>> >>reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then
>a short
>> >>history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog.
>> >>
>> >>Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present
>prominent body
>> >>image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background
>of
>> >>sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization,
>"sheer
>> >>nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel
>inebriated, are
>> >>usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
>> >>Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their
>bodies and
>> >>are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not
>perceive
>> >>pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
>> >>(especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
>> >>hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those
>produced
>> >>by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
>> >>Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients.
>Perhaps the
>> >>hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
>> >>strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and
>dissociative
>> >>properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
>> >>hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police
>officers.
>> >>This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by
>standing in
>> >>front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb
>into a
>> >>polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or
>cliffs.
>> >>The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome
>mutilation
>> >>of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser
>pulled
>> >>out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her
>baby in
>> >>cooking oil
>> >>
>> >>(andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
>> >>individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate
>this type
>> >>of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this
>drug...).
>> >>
>> >>There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both
>with and
>> >>without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug
>users
>> >>who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.
>> >>
>> >>Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially
>comatose.
>> >>Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short
>duration of
>> >>coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated
>with
>> >>higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
>> >>occasionally persisting as long as 10 days).
>> >>
>> >>The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most
>hallucinogens are
>> >>ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.
>> >>
>> >>And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.
>> >>
>> 
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
> 
>
>
>




. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Christopher Pryor
HTML Programmer
T H I R D   A G E   M E D I A

http://www.thirdage.com

(415)267-4642
c h r i s @ t h i r d a g e . c o m

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 22:05:27 1998
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To: chris <chris@thirdage.com>, messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: re: superfly PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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animal abuse...

At 02:03 PM 1/23/98 -0800, chris wrote:
>Wow, you'll have to tell me your pcp story one of these days. What's
>kitty-flipping?
>
>
>
>At 12:23 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>curtis mayfield, "superfly" soundtrack.  one of the best
>>blaxploitation soundtracks ever made.  once you get past the overt
>>drug references, i think the lyrics are actually rather poignant, and
>>a little sad.  but maybe that's implied more in the context of the
>>whole album.
>>
>>also, to paul hayden (i can't find your address to cc this to) - the
>>info that pcp is available in liquid form reinforces my suspicion that
>>i've taken pcp and lsd together in blotter form.  whatever the fuck i
>>was on that night, the experience was terrifying enough to make me
>>quit doing drugs altogether for five years.  i'd tell y'all the story,
>>but it would take pages.  let's just say i did some amazingly fucked
>>up shit that night, straight out of the health class horror stories,
>>and i'm lucky to still be alive.  i really don't advise taking pcp.
>>
>>kitty-flipping, on the other hand, is rather fun.
>>
>>-messiah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Reminds me of the song "I'm your pusher man"
>>> 
>>> I can't remember all the lyrics..isn't that on some soundtrack
>>> to a movie? I want to get it, it's great! But I forgot the artist.
>>> It goes something like this:
>>> 
>>> I have got
>>> what you need
>>> Have some coke
>>> Have some weed
>>> 
>>> I'm your pusher man
>>> 
>>> It's hilarious...
>>> 
>>> love kim
>>> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>>>          what does it mean when someone says
>>>             "my computer went down on me"?
>>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>>> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>>> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
>>> To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
>>> Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>>> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 12:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
>>> 
>>> 
>>> >Hi Andy,
>>> >
>>> >        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your
>>friend's
>>> >episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP?  Fear?
>>> >Aggression?  How long did it last?
>>> >
>>> >        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually
>>sold in?
>>> >
>>> >        Your "bootyflipping" comment reminds me of a great old rap
>>single
>>> >by Ice-T I have called "I'm Your Pusher"... It starts out with a
>>hilarious
>>> >dialogue bit that goes:
>>> >
>>> >         dude:  "Yo, what's up man, I need to get high man, I need
>>to get
>>> hold
>>> >                of some big-time dope, man, you know where I can
>>get a
>>> key?"
>>> >
>>> >        Ice-T:  "I know where you can get a LP."
>>> >
>>> >         dude:  "LP, man, have you went crazy man, I'm talkin' bout
>>some
>>> >dope man, I
>>> >                need to get high right now man, why don't you hook
>>me up
>>> >with a 5-0?"
>>> >
>>> >        Ice-T:  "I can hook you up with a 12 inch."
>>> >
>>> >         dude:  "12 inch?  Man you done went crazy, you don't even
>>know
>>> >what time it
>>> >                 is!  Out here on the streets and don't know what
>>time it
>>> >is, man,
>>> >                 you's a fool!"
>>> >
>>> >        Ice-T:  "Yo homeboy, you a fool!  You don't know what time
>>it is,
>>> >out here
>>> >                 messin' up your mind, you know what I'm sayin'? 
>>This is
>>> >Ice-T talkin'
>>> >                 to you boy, I'ma tell you what time it is!"
>>> >
>>> >                (bust into phat rap at this point)   8)
>>> >
>>> >May the vibe be with us,
>>> >
>>> >                                <<< Starchild >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this,
>>even if I
>>> >>did write it).
>>> >>
>>> >>Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few
>>minutes of
>>> >>research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having
>>to deal
>>> >>with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for
>>Phencyclidine
>>> >>(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready
>>for the
>>> >>effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new
>>effects...
>>> >>especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's
>>just say,
>>> >>you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the
>>past, and
>>> >>PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience
>>(higher
>>> >>percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable
>>reactions).
>>> >>
>>> >>Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I
>>didn't
>>> >>take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine
>>and
>>> >>Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
>>> >>considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
>>> >>sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K,
>>and 1 hit
>>> >>of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30
>>minutes later
>>> >>(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a
>>bad time
>>> >>(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half
>>hit was
>>> >>ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
>>> >>overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because
>>everything
>>> >>looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was
>>admitted
>>> >>for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of
>>them
>>> >>cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
>>> >>decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of
>>K (which
>>> >>it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E. 
>>Swore
>>> >>he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
>>> >>
>>> >>Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
>>> >>
>>> >>A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing
>>number of
>>> >>"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the
>>late
>>> >>sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became
>>obvious
>>> >>quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
>>> >>generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people
>>selling PCP
>>> >>and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD
>>led to
>>> >>the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution
>>impossible.
>>> >>
>>> >>Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage
>>of very
>>> >>er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking
>>out of
>>> >>handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that
>>completely,
>>> >>but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and
>>reduced
>>> >>sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down"
>>from a bad
>>> >>PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest
>>explorers.
>>> >>
>>> >>PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it
>>to my
>>> >>cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a
>>lot easier
>>> >>to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the
>>reason PCP is
>>> >>no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of
>>being "put
>>> >>under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half
>>psychotic
>>> >>episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of
>>sleeping
>>> >>and eating, both of which require little brain function... most
>>people end
>>> >>up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc.
>>> >>
>>> >>Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
>>> >>(sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered
>>aurally
>>> >>(often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a
>>street slang
>>> >>for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing
>>your ass
>>> >>off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to
>>as "that
>>> >>mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is
>>going off",
>>> >>jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so
>>remember
>>> >>to keep those fluids coming...)
>>> >>
>>> >>There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects
>>of PCP,
>>> >>and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known
>>side
>>> >>effects (listed elsewhere in this post).
>>> >>
>>> >>Some other throw ins...
>>> >>
>>> >>FROM HYPERREAL.ORG
>>> >>
>>> >>Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
>>> >>448-455
>>> >>
>>> >>.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
>>> >>reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then
>>a short
>>> >>history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog.
>>> >>
>>> >>Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present
>>prominent body
>>> >>image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background
>>of
>>> >>sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization,
>>"sheer
>>> >>nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel
>>inebriated, are
>>> >>usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
>>> >>Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their
>>bodies and
>>> >>are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not
>>perceive
>>> >>pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
>>> >>(especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
>>> >>hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those
>>produced
>>> >>by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
>>> >>Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients.
>>Perhaps the
>>> >>hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
>>> >>strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and
>>dissociative
>>> >>properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
>>> >>hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police
>>officers.
>>> >>This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by
>>standing in
>>> >>front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb
>>into a
>>> >>polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or
>>cliffs.
>>> >>The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome
>>mutilation
>>> >>of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser
>>pulled
>>> >>out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her
>>baby in
>>> >>cooking oil
>>> >>
>>> >>(andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
>>> >>individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate
>>this type
>>> >>of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this
>>drug...).
>>> >>
>>> >>There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both
>>with and
>>> >>without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug
>>users
>>> >>who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.
>>> >>
>>> >>Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially
>>comatose.
>>> >>Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short
>>duration of
>>> >>coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated
>>with
>>> >>higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
>>> >>occasionally persisting as long as 10 days).
>>> >>
>>> >>The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most
>>hallucinogens are
>>> >>ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.
>>> >>
>>> >>And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.
>>> >>
>>> 
>>=== message truncated ===
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>Christopher Pryor
>HTML Programmer
>T H I R D   A G E   M E D I A
>
>http://www.thirdage.com
>
>(415)267-4642
>c h r i s @ t h i r d a g e . c o m
>
>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 22:17:02 1998
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From: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
To: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Eklektic/Dieselboy
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Damn!

Damian was in town?  He's my boy from Pittsburgh.....@#$)(*#$(*&!

Sorry I missed it!

-jimg

--skoop@slackers.net
--http://www.slackers.net/~skoop


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 22:34:53 1998
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From: "Smith, Guy" <smithg@segasoft.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Hey Levi, sup kid? R u going to Lightseed?
let me know
peace
W/Love&Harmony
Guy 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 23:03:42 1998
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To: "Smith, Guy" <smithg@segasoft.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: chris <chris@thirdage.com>
Subject: RE: superfly PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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The Messiah gave me a hit of K once--I liked it, but I probably wouldn't do
it again. Combining it with e would just be wacky dacky. I think I'd have
to wait an awfully long time for my seritonin levels to recover.

-c


At 02:17 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>ketamine(special k) and e together. Never done k before, but I heard its
not really a great high. Not necassarily a bad one though. Together I have
heard it pretty awsome. 
>W/Love&Harmony
>Guy
>
>----------
>From: 	chris[SMTP:chris@thirdage.com]
>Sent: 	Friday, January 23, 1998 2:03 PM
>To: 	messiah wannabe; sfraves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: 	re: superfly PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
>
>Wow, you'll have to tell me your pcp story one of these days. What's
>kitty-flipping?
>
>
>
>At 12:23 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>curtis mayfield, "superfly" soundtrack.  one of the best
>>blaxploitation soundtracks ever made.  once you get past the overt
>>drug references, i think the lyrics are actually rather poignant, and
>>a little sad.  but maybe that's implied more in the context of the
>>whole album.
>>
>>also, to paul hayden (i can't find your address to cc this to) - the
>>info that pcp is available in liquid form reinforces my suspicion that
>>i've taken pcp and lsd together in blotter form.  whatever the fuck i
>>was on that night, the experience was terrifying enough to make me
>>quit doing drugs altogether for five years.  i'd tell y'all the story,
>>but it would take pages.  let's just say i did some amazingly fucked
>>up shit that night, straight out of the health class horror stories,
>>and i'm lucky to still be alive.  i really don't advise taking pcp.
>>
>>kitty-flipping, on the other hand, is rather fun.
>>
>>-messiah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Reminds me of the song "I'm your pusher man"
>>> 
>>> I can't remember all the lyrics..isn't that on some soundtrack
>>> to a movie? I want to get it, it's great! But I forgot the artist.
>>> It goes something like this:
>>> 
>>> I have got
>>> what you need
>>> Have some coke
>>> Have some weed
>>> 
>>> I'm your pusher man
>>> 
>>> It's hilarious...
>>> 
>>> love kim
>>> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>>>          what does it mean when someone says
>>>             "my computer went down on me"?
>>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>>> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>>> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
>>> To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
>>> Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>>> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 12:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
>>> 
>>> 
>>> >Hi Andy,
>>> >
>>> >        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your
>>friend's
>>> >episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP?  Fear?
>>> >Aggression?  How long did it last?
>>> >
>>> >        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually
>>sold in?
>>> >
>>> >        Your "bootyflipping" comment reminds me of a great old rap
>>single
>>> >by Ice-T I have called "I'm Your Pusher"... It starts out with a
>>hilarious
>>> >dialogue bit that goes:
>>> >
>>> >         dude:  "Yo, what's up man, I need to get high man, I need
>>to get
>>> hold
>>> >                of some big-time dope, man, you know where I can
>>get a
>>> key?"
>>> >
>>> >        Ice-T:  "I know where you can get a LP."
>>> >
>>> >         dude:  "LP, man, have you went crazy man, I'm talkin' bout
>>some
>>> >dope man, I
>>> >                need to get high right now man, why don't you hook
>>me up
>>> >with a 5-0?"
>>> >
>>> >        Ice-T:  "I can hook you up with a 12 inch."
>>> >
>>> >         dude:  "12 inch?  Man you done went crazy, you don't even
>>know
>>> >what time it
>>> >                 is!  Out here on the streets and don't know what
>>time it
>>> >is, man,
>>> >                 you's a fool!"
>>> >
>>> >        Ice-T:  "Yo homeboy, you a fool!  You don't know what time
>>it is,
>>> >out here
>>> >                 messin' up your mind, you know what I'm sayin'? 
>>This is
>>> >Ice-T talkin'
>>> >                 to you boy, I'ma tell you what time it is!"
>>> >
>>> >                (bust into phat rap at this point)   8)
>>> >
>>> >May the vibe be with us,
>>> >
>>> >                                <<< Starchild >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this,
>>even if I
>>> >>did write it).
>>> >>
>>> >>Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few
>>minutes of
>>> >>research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having
>>to deal
>>> >>with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for
>>Phencyclidine
>>> >>(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready
>>for the
>>> >>effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new
>>effects...
>>> >>especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's
>>just say,
>>> >>you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the
>>past, and
>>> >>PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience
>>(higher
>>> >>percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable
>>reactions).
>>> >>
>>> >>Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I
>>didn't
>>> >>take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine
>>and
>>> >>Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
>>> >>considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
>>> >>sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K,
>>and 1 hit
>>> >>of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30
>>minutes later
>>> >>(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a
>>bad time
>>> >>(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half
>>hit was
>>> >>ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
>>> >>overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because
>>everything
>>> >>looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was
>>admitted
>>> >>for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of
>>them
>>> >>cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
>>> >>decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of
>>K (which
>>> >>it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E. 
>>Swore
>>> >>he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
>>> >>
>>> >>Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
>>> >>
>>> >>A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing
>>number of
>>> >>"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the
>>late
>>> >>sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became
>>obvious
>>> >>quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
>>> >>generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people
>>selling PCP
>>> >>and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD
>>led to
>>> >>the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution
>>impossible.
>>> >>
>>> >>Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage
>>of very
>>> >>er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking
>>out of
>>> >>handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that
>>completely,
>>> >>but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and
>>reduced
>>> >>sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down"
>>from a bad
>>> >>PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest
>>explorers.
>>> >>
>>> >>PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it
>>to my
>>> >>cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a
>>lot easier
>>> >>to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the
>>reason PCP is
>>> >>no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of
>>being "put
>>> >>under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half
>>psychotic
>>> >>episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of
>>sleeping
>>> >>and eating, both of which require little brain function... most
>>people end
>>> >>up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc.
>>> >>
>>> >>Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
>>> >>(sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered
>>aurally
>>> >>(often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a
>>street slang
>>> >>for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing
>>your ass
>>> >>off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to
>>as "that
>>> >>mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is
>>going off",
>>> >>jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so
>>remember
>>> >>to keep those fluids coming...)
>>> >>
>>> >>There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects
>>of PCP,
>>> >>and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known
>>side
>>> >>effects (listed elsewhere in this post).
>>> >>
>>> >>Some other throw ins...
>>> >>
>>> >>FROM HYPERREAL.ORG
>>> >>
>>> >>Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
>>> >>448-455
>>> >>
>>> >>.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
>>> >>reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then
>>a short
>>> >>history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog.
>>> >>
>>> >>Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present
>>prominent body
>>> >>image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background
>>of
>>> >>sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization,
>>"sheer
>>> >>nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel
>>inebriated, are
>>> >>usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
>>> >>Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their
>>bodies and
>>> >>are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not
>>perceive
>>> >>pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
>>> >>(especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
>>> >>hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those
>>produced
>>> >>by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
>>> >>Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients.
>>Perhaps the
>>> >>hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
>>> >>strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and
>>dissociative
>>> >>properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
>>> >>hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police
>>officers.
>>> >>This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by
>>standing in
>>> >>front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb
>>into a
>>> >>polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or
>>cliffs.
>>> >>The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome
>>mutilation
>>> >>of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser
>>pulled
>>> >>out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her
>>baby in
>>> >>cooking oil
>>> >>
>>> >>(andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
>>> >>individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate
>>this type
>>> >>of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this
>>drug...).
>>> >>
>>> >>There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both
>>with and
>>> >>without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug
>>users
>>> >>who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.
>>> >>
>>> >>Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially
>>comatose.
>>> >>Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short
>>duration of
>>> >>coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated
>>with
>>> >>higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
>>> >>occasionally persisting as long as 10 days).
>>> >>
>>> >>The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most
>>hallucinogens are
>>> >>ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.
>>> >>
>>> >>And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.
>>> >>
>>> 
>>=== message truncated ===
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>Christopher Pryor
>HTML Programmer
>T H I R D   A G E   M E D I A
>
>http://www.thirdage.com
>
>(415)267-4642
>c h r i s @ t h i r d a g e . c o m
>
>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>
>
>
>




. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Christopher Pryor
HTML Programmer
T H I R D   A G E   M E D I A

http://www.thirdage.com

(415)267-4642
c h r i s @ t h i r d a g e . c o m

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 23:10:44 1998
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To: mkodama@yahoo.com, josh@lucaslearning.com
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
Subject: Re: Eklektic/Dieselboy
Cc: susan@langan.net, grifem00@dons.ac.usfca.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Thank you. Thank you both for the lovely reviews of our event, Eklektic.
Throwing a quality party & keeping the deserving crowd satisfied is a main
focus of ours.  When I say "ours" I mean the three of us who gave birth to
and still nurture Eklektic.  We are Miss E, Q, and myself (dmarie).  Not to
mention our yin residents Star Eyes & Sage who rock it and everso deliver
quality junglism.

We love giving the scene what is deserves and giving back to the scene what
we have recieved -- a lot of love & knowledge.  That is why we go to the
extremes (fresh flowers, tons of candles & candle operas, beautiful plants,
new equipment, a $5.00 cover charge ONLY, talented turntablists, etc.)  

We are not in this to make money, we actually do not pocket a penny, we put
all profits directly back into making our club what it is and taking care of
business.  We are not in this simply for ourselves, we are doing this for
all of us!  We plan to keep it jumpin & inviting each week and we vow to
continue to build an extrememly permanent chill zone for those who deserve
it (you all)!

I am so appreicative that you both "get it".

You both rule for the reviews!  Please join us again....everyone....

Respect due:
dmarie (one of the Eklektic 3)
Ground Score Bookings & Management
415.332.5800 X 797
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 12:12 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi everybody!
>
>A quick review of last night's Eklektic w/ Dieselboy.
>
>When we got there the resident dj's and mc's were on, playing some
>nice medium-tempo drum 'n' bass.  The venue (Kate O'Brien's) is nice
>although it was _jam_packed_.  Nice sound system, too, although it was
>jacked up into the distortion range which muddied the bass and vocal
>freestyling.
>
>The 2nd dj up, Sage I think, played a really nice, fluid set
>supporting the two mc's.  If those guys were freestyling then they
>were doing well - otherwise they were about 2 steps shy of tight, but
>still enjoyable to hear.
>
>The MAIN EVENT!  When Dieselboy started up there was no mistaking it -
>the beats got faster, harder, and oh so satisfying.  He laid down a
>sweet set ranging from some minimal straight DnB to breaks to
>urban-anxiety soundtrax (sqealing tires and alarms over DnB pounding.)
> Finished up with a DnB track so funky ya shoulda called it
>Drum'n'Bootsy.  The only constant was the _intensity_.  Hope he comes
>back soon!
>
>It was odd being in an event in a bar after so many UG's, but it was
>nice having hassle-free in's and out's and not worrying about getting
>busted.  Really strange when the lights come on at 2am and everybody
>leaves, hey, where's the party going?  But after all it was a
>weeknight ...
>
>Thanks to the Eklektic crew for a damn good show, and for bringing
>some serious talent to town. See you at Lightseed!
>Matt.
>
>*****NEXT REVIEW*******
>
>From: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Eklektic / Dieselboy Review and a short PSA
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:45:16 -0800
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org

damn glad i cut from work for this one. and everyone else that was
there; missed their favorite TV show, blew off quality time with the
significant other, decided to put off that triple by-pass open heart
surgery, whatever, it was the RIGHT 100% things to do, because...

rinse played some phat rolling beats, a lot of new stuff or at least new
to me and it was all good. there  was some sort of problem early which
caused the sound to cut. i heard someone say something about going home
for a power strip. but it turned out to be perfect timing for a smoke
break. 420 seconds later the sound got sorted out.

lemme tell you something about sage... that girl goes off. seriously
sick table skillz, she also played some nice dark beats. with phluid
dropping lyrics over and between, i'd say most of headz were suitably
blown off.  i'd seen both sage and phluid work before, but not together.
it was damn cool to hear.

i can only imagine that the bass cru / friday the 13th event is going to
be ballistic!

i'd been wanting to see dieselboy for a while now. i'd heard last roll
through, he didn't deliver quite what my friend came to expect. but last
night he made up for that and then some. he kept headz bobbing, moving
and dancing until close (2am is way too early for this shit!). and even
then, the place was still wall to wall and nobody wanted it to be over.
best and worse way for a party to end.

and finally, my little PSA:

<picture me standing in a meadow next to a babbling brook, the national
anthem hummed softly by a boy scout troop from montana>
the dj's in this city are doing something good, something to be proud
of, and something we can all share. if you haven't been out to see some
of these kids, go. you'll be glad you did...

>
>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 00:20:13 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:20:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
X-Sender: mlowdrma@apocalypse
To: Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com>
cc: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: cozy ~ DJ Trance
In-Reply-To: <v02130500b0ee71df814e@[157.22.229.127]>
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-->Did this guy play in the trance club that was in Amsterdam's red light
district..funky buddah, or something similar (name wise)? It was a nice
club, and the only one I was able to get into the last time I was in the
city.  The club scene there is crap...what's the deal of that whole
membership deal and only other members can get you in shit? 

:)
M&m

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Peter Sandifer wrote:

> >Curious is the T&J factory going to be doing parties
> >every week now?
> 
> 
> Mac,
> No, he's definitely not planning on doing weekly events.   I believe that
> he got excited about doing this 2 weeks in a row is because DJ Trance is
> fresh off the plane from Amsterdam, and he will only be in town for a short
> while.  DJ Trance, by the way, plays gangster rap.   Just kidding!
> Obviously, he's a trance dj, he plays a lot of psychedelic trance...you
> know, the music that sounds like robots on DMT battling in a supermarket.
> From what I hear, he's smoking.    there is a different Trance (from LA?)
> but this is an entirely different cat.
> 
> b))merang
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>       c       o       z       y
> >>
> >> a Trance & Jungle Factory affair
> >> has been moved to Friday night (the 23rd)
> >> This will be an intimate gathering with limited
> >tickets, presale only (200
> >> heads only!)
> >>
> >>                OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
> >>
> >> We are pleased to introduce
> >> >-=-=->   DJ Trance from Amsterdam, Holland for his
> >Bay Area premiere
> >> The Bass Kru/Flux & Rinse
> >> Vertigo
> >> Thomas Trouble
> >> Annapurna
> >> Chris
> >> b))merang
> >>
> >>                 OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
> >>
> >> All Ages,   $10,    10:45 pm-7am.  The party will
> >be in the Berkeley area,
> >> in a clean, cozy venue.  Tickets available at the
> >Trance & Jungle Factory,
> >> call 510-704-9876 for more details.
> >> Or stop by the store at 2575 telegraph ave in
> >berkeley (one block south of
> >> dwight way)
> >>
> >>                 OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
> >>
> >> I am not throwing this party...please contact the
> >Trance & Jungle Factory
> >> for more info.
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> b))merang
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 00:28:57 1998
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From: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
To: "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Lightseed meeting place...
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:30:22 -0800
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I live in San Jose, near Valley Fair...  Frog boix and I live near 
enough each other...  Where do you peeps want to meet? 
Dinner sounds great!  Write back as soon as possible,
and I'll set something up with him!

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

Rick Fish
AirLink Communications, Inc.
www.airlink.com
rickf@airlink.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 00:37:16 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:36:00 -0800
From: Sharif Torpis <faust@grift.com>
Organization: Fleece Industries International
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To: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
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CAT WEASEL wrote:

> faust@grift.com wrote:
> >
> > This just sounds bitter. Get over it. Techno (as an all-encompassing term) has
> > been overground for greater than 10 years now (speaking relative to all
> > countries, not just the US).
>
> You don't think there's an underground out there anymore? Jesus, where have you been? Even in the UK there is a thriving house underground, leaving the commercial superclubs miles behind in terms of vibe and frindliness and caring attitude. Evil Eddie Richards and Terry Francis of Wiggle to name but one underground club that keeps it so real it hurts.

Actually I didn't say that. Of course there's an underground. It just annoys me when people complain about hearingRobert Miles at Taco Bell. Get over it. MoS is catering to the overground crowd. You don't like? Then slip underground
where it's all good.

> I'm not going to continue on this thread anymore - if you don't see what it wrong with corporate clubbing culture then I give in and await the complaints when your music scene is full of joe six packs giving out attitude. I've seen it before and I'll see it again.

No, I don't agree with you blowing off DJs such as Sasha b/c of your anti-corporate feelings. Don't go to a club becauseit is/isn't run by someone you like. Go because of the music & the vibe. Hypothetically, if you found out the Toon Towns
of yesteryear were funded by Marlboro would you still have gone?



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 00:39:33 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:42:01 -0800
To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: Re: cozy ~ DJ Trance
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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>-->Did this guy play in the trance club that was in Amsterdam's red light
>district..funky buddah, or something similar (name wise)? It was a nice
>club, and the only one I was able to get into the last time I was in the
>city.  The club scene there is crap...what's the deal of that whole
>membership deal and only other members can get you in shit?
>
>:)
>M&m

Minh, I'm not sure if he's the same one.  do you recognize the name?
 i imagine that he's big, he's released several records as well.
 i went to amsterdam once, before i knew what a rave was (but right around
the time it was exploding), and i do remember a lot of snobbery in the
clubs and bars.

god bless america
from sea to shi-ning seeeeeeeeeeeeeea!

b))merang



>
>On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Peter Sandifer wrote:
>
>> >Curious is the T&J factory going to be doing parties
>> >every week now?
>>
>>
>> Mac,
>> No, he's definitely not planning on doing weekly events.   I believe that
>> he got excited about doing this 2 weeks in a row is because DJ Trance is
>> fresh off the plane from Amsterdam, and he will only be in town for a short
>> while.  DJ Trance, by the way, plays gangster rap.   Just kidding!
>> Obviously, he's a trance dj, he plays a lot of psychedelic trance...you
>> know, the music that sounds like robots on DMT battling in a supermarket.
>> From what I hear, he's smoking.    there is a different Trance (from LA?)
>> but this is an entirely different cat.
>>
>> b))merang
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---Peter Sandifer <peter@niles.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>       c       o       z       y
>> >>
>> >> a Trance & Jungle Factory affair
>> >> has been moved to Friday night (the 23rd)
>> >> This will be an intimate gathering with limited
>> >tickets, presale only (200
>> >> heads only!)
>> >>
>> >>                OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
>> >>
>> >> We are pleased to introduce
>> >> >-=-=->   DJ Trance from Amsterdam, Holland for his
>> >Bay Area premiere
>> >> The Bass Kru/Flux & Rinse
>> >> Vertigo
>> >> Thomas Trouble
>> >> Annapurna
>> >> Chris
>> >> b))merang
>> >>
>> >>                 OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
>> >>
>> >> All Ages,   $10,    10:45 pm-7am.  The party will
>> >be in the Berkeley area,
>> >> in a clean, cozy venue.  Tickets available at the
>> >Trance & Jungle Factory,
>> >> call 510-704-9876 for more details.
>> >> Or stop by the store at 2575 telegraph ave in
>> >berkeley (one block south of
>> >> dwight way)
>> >>
>> >>                 OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
>> >>
>> >> I am not throwing this party...please contact the
>> >Trance & Jungle Factory
>> >> for more info.
>> >> thanks,
>> >>
>> >> b))merang
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 00:56:51 1998
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At 4:20 PM -0800 1/23/98, Minh Q. Le wrote:
>city.  The club scene there is crap...what's the deal of that whole
>membership deal and only other members can get you in shit?

Oh, you mean like Friends and Family?

Sir Ulrich Knight of the Turntables



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 01:02:25 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:00:23
From: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
To: faust@grift.com,
Subject: Re: MoS - kill kill kill
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faust@grift.com wrote:

> > I'm not going to continue on this thread anymore - if you don't see what it
> wrong with corporate clubbing culture then I give in and await the complaints
> when your music scene is full of joe six packs giving out attitude. I've seen it
> before and I'll see it again.
> 
> No, I don't agree with you blowing off DJs such as Sasha b/c of your
> anti-corporate feelings. Don't go to a club becauseit is/isn't run by someone
> you like. Go because of the music & the vibe. Hypothetically, if you found out
> the Toon Towns
> of yesteryear were funded by Marlboro would you still have gone?

The reason it is a hypothetical situation is because they would NEVER have sold out like that. It's against everything they would have stood for.
So you are effectively saying that its OK to give your money to corporations who's business practices you disagree with because they have a product you like? Do you not realise that by doing this you are feeding them and supporting them? As a consumer you have not just power, but a responsibility to use that power wisely and ecologically. Put your money where your mouth is.
The only reason you have to go to clubs like misery to hear these DJs is because they charge so much that only a sponsored corporate can afford to have them. This is not supporting a scene, it is exploiting it as a business. Therefore I choose not to support superstar DJs.

C@weasel

P.S. Static tonite


Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 01:21:14 1998
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the dood at solid grooves told me that the import is jus the east/west side
thingie put together.  is that true?  see y'all @  lightseed. =)

wuvs,
-=wyv=-
-Long

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 01:30:37 1998
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Hmmm, how about Chilli's.  Free water, oh wait that only matters at raves... Doh! They have really cheese fries.

Got Milk?
-- Billabong

Rick <rickf@AirLink.com> wrote on Friday January 23, 1998 at  4:29pm:
>I live in San Jose, near Valley Fair...  Frog boix and I live near 
>enough each other...  Where do you peeps want to meet? 
>Dinner sounds great!  Write back as soon as possible,
>and I'll set something up with him!
>
>Your Jedi Bitch,
>Jedi666Boy
>
>Rick Fish
>AirLink Communications, Inc.
>www.airlink.com
>rickf@airlink.com
>


------------------------------------------------------
| Your boss can read your Email.  Is this what you want?
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000001 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 01:32:28 1998
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From: "moki4u2c@hotmail.com" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
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<<<CatWeasel said:
I'm not going to continue on this thread anymore - if you don't see what it wr
ong with corporate clubbing culture then I give in and await the complaints when
 your music scene is full of joe six packs giving out attitude. I've seen it bef
ore and I'll see it again.>>>

<<<Sharif said:
No, I don't agree with you blowing off DJs such as Sasha b/c of your anti-corpor
ate feelings. Don't go to a club becauseit is/isn't run by someone you like. Go 
because of the music & the vibe. Hypothetically, if you found out the Toon Towns
of yesteryear were funded by Marlboro would you still have gone?>>>

In a way, I agree with what you're both saying.  Weez, let those people go to
the MoS events as it will keep them away from your real scene right?  Don't
sweat it 'cause there's always a real scene that will be there.  But Sharif, I
would not encourage people to blindly go just for the music if the intent of
the party is suspect.  Isn't that one of the points of us having a good time
within our community, making conscious efforts to stay positive.

Now don't think I'm some saint or something 'cause if I lived in NYC, I'd be
paging Dmitry like a mutha to get me on the list for Twilo.  I'm merely stating
that as Weez said, it's a consumer driven "business" and caveat emptor to all. 
It's fine to state opinions and I'm just as guilty as everyone else.

I've said before that I've been around a long time, and I can honestly say that
I am not part of the bitterati.  If it's good, it's good.  If people are having
a good time, that's their gig.  You may be more informed so bully for you. 
Relaying information is cool, but preaching how we'll all find out soon enough
does not sit well with most, myself included.

Bottom line, if one of my fayv dj's were spinning at Cream, etc., my ass would
be get the hell outta my way miss thing and show me to the dancefloor!  I'm
just a shameless whore for the music, I'll admit it, always have
been...always...

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"I once knew of a desert traveller
whose steps were off by a mere centimeter.
He walked around in circles forever."
		-The Mystery of Rampo



			  << E N D   O F   M E S S A G E >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 02:31:39 1998
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> >>Songs of a Dead Dreamer / DJ Spooky / 16 / 96 / Asphodel / $10
> >>
> >>found sound / Spooky / 16 / 96 / A&M / $8
>

I'm a really big fan of this guy's sound and style. AKA Paul Miller, he has
recently started releasing albums under his birth name. Dead dreamer is the
soundrtack for an urban nightmare. Barren cityscapes, haunted passerbys. A
melange of sampled and distorted trains, footsteps, voices, beats that evolve
from the morass and transport you to another dream reality. Sure I'm biased, but
I will admit that when I saw him live in SF I was not as impressed as I have been
with his studio sessions. I also find the liner notes quite engaging. He is as
interesdted in semiotics as he is in "found art" and blends the two together in
his constructions, using both sound and word as text.Although this album is not
going to get your pulse racing or your mind melting it is great music to chill
out to.




  kbOOM

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 03:25:29 1998
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this track can also be found on the CD "Pimps, Players & Private Eyes."

This collection is the bomb.....has all the best tunes from the genre like
"Back Stabbers," Shaft, " etc.....

VB

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 03:28:19 1998
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To: Alex Rosenberg <alexr@goonsquad.spies.com>, <SFraves@hyperreal.org>
From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: !=RR=!Douglas Rushkoff (sp?)
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At 04:41 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Alex Rosenberg wrote:
>>I think that before Douglas Rushkoff wrote "The Ecstasy Club", he wrote a 
>>book called "Cyberia". Have any of you heard of it?
>
>I'm waiting anxiously for Brian Behlendorf's glowing review of "Cyberia" 
>to make a reappearance.

Actually I'll echo Jonathan Steuer's review he wrote in the margins when he
loaned me a copy back in 1994.  "It ruined my weekend".  Unfortunately it
was so long ago I can't cite specifics as to /why/ it left a bad taste in
my mouth; I think partly it had to do with taking some things way too
seriously and other things way not serious enough.  And maybe the fact that
half the "details" were "creative interpretations of the truth".  But then
again what's truth?

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 04:01:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:01:27 -0800 (PST)
From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: superfly PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
To: chris <chris@thirdage.com>
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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actually, i was kitty flipping the night i met you, chris.  that was
probably the best high i've ever experienced.  but the amazing e, the
strong ass speed, the naked women, the huge bonfires and the free
supply of crayons probably had as much to do with my overwhelming
bliss as the hourly bumps of k.  i think it took about two hellish
drug-free weeks for my seratonin to balance back out after that night.

my pcp story is the same as the acid story i told you - the one where
i tried to jump through that window in the durham ghettos, with the
cops, the er room, and the 6 foot 4, previously institutionalized
psychopath chasing me around with a baseball bat...

is it 8 yet?  i need to get the hell out of the office.  anyone going
to cozy?

-messiah





---chris <chris@thirdage.com> wrote:
>
> The Messiah gave me a hit of K once--I liked it, but I probably
wouldn't do
> it again. Combining it with e would just be wacky dacky. I think I'd
have
> to wait an awfully long time for my seritonin levels to recover.
> 
> -c
> 
> 
> At 02:17 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >ketamine(special k) and e together. Never done k before, but I
heard its
> not really a great high. Not necassarily a bad one though. Together
I have
> heard it pretty awsome. 
> >W/Love&Harmony
> >Guy
> >
> >----------
> >From: 	chris[SMTP:chris@thirdage.com]
> >Sent: 	Friday, January 23, 1998 2:03 PM
> >To: 	messiah wannabe; sfraves@hyperreal.org
> >Subject: 	re: superfly PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
> >
> >Wow, you'll have to tell me your pcp story one of these days. What's
> >kitty-flipping?
> >
> >
> >
> >At 12:23 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>curtis mayfield, "superfly" soundtrack.  one of the best
> >>blaxploitation soundtracks ever made.  once you get past the overt
> >>drug references, i think the lyrics are actually rather poignant,
and
> >>a little sad.  but maybe that's implied more in the context of the
> >>whole album.
> >>
> >>also, to paul hayden (i can't find your address to cc this to) - the
> >>info that pcp is available in liquid form reinforces my suspicion
that
> >>i've taken pcp and lsd together in blotter form.  whatever the
fuck i
> >>was on that night, the experience was terrifying enough to make me
> >>quit doing drugs altogether for five years.  i'd tell y'all the
story,
> >>but it would take pages.  let's just say i did some amazingly fucked
> >>up shit that night, straight out of the health class horror stories,
> >>and i'm lucky to still be alive.  i really don't advise taking pcp.
> >>
> >>kitty-flipping, on the other hand, is rather fun.
> >>
> >>-messiah
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Reminds me of the song "I'm your pusher man"
> >>> 
> >>> I can't remember all the lyrics..isn't that on some soundtrack
> >>> to a movie? I want to get it, it's great! But I forgot the artist.
> >>> It goes something like this:
> >>> 
> >>> I have got
> >>> what you need
> >>> Have some coke
> >>> Have some weed
> >>> 
> >>> I'm your pusher man
> >>> 
> >>> It's hilarious...
> >>> 
> >>> love kim
> >>> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> >>>          what does it mean when someone says
> >>>             "my computer went down on me"?
> >>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> >>> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> >>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> >>> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
> >>> To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
> >>> Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> >>> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 12:23 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> >Hi Andy,
> >>> >
> >>> >        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your
> >>friend's
> >>> >episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP? 
Fear?
> >>> >Aggression?  How long did it last?
> >>> >
> >>> >        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually
> >>sold in?
> >>> >
> >>> >        Your "bootyflipping" comment reminds me of a great old
rap
> >>single
> >>> >by Ice-T I have called "I'm Your Pusher"... It starts out with a
> >>hilarious
> >>> >dialogue bit that goes:
> >>> >
> >>> >         dude:  "Yo, what's up man, I need to get high man, I
need
> >>to get
> >>> hold
> >>> >                of some big-time dope, man, you know where I can
> >>get a
> >>> key?"
> >>> >
> >>> >        Ice-T:  "I know where you can get a LP."
> >>> >
> >>> >         dude:  "LP, man, have you went crazy man, I'm talkin'
bout
> >>some
> >>> >dope man, I
> >>> >                need to get high right now man, why don't you
hook
> >>me up
> >>> >with a 5-0?"
> >>> >
> >>> >        Ice-T:  "I can hook you up with a 12 inch."
> >>> >
> >>> >         dude:  "12 inch?  Man you done went crazy, you don't
even
> >>know
> >>> >what time it
> >>> >                 is!  Out here on the streets and don't know what
> >>time it
> >>> >is, man,
> >>> >                 you's a fool!"
> >>> >
> >>> >        Ice-T:  "Yo homeboy, you a fool!  You don't know what
time
> >>it is,
> >>> >out here
> >>> >                 messin' up your mind, you know what I'm sayin'? 
> >>This is
> >>> >Ice-T talkin'
> >>> >                 to you boy, I'ma tell you what time it is!"
> >>> >
> >>> >                (bust into phat rap at this point)   8)
> >>> >
> >>> >May the vibe be with us,
> >>> >
> >>> >                                <<< Starchild >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this,
> >>even if I
> >>> >>did write it).
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few
> >>minutes of
> >>> >>research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than
having
> >>to deal
> >>> >>with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for
> >>Phencyclidine
> >>> >>(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready
> >>for the
> >>> >>effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new
> >>effects...
> >>> >>especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's
> >>just say,
> >>> >>you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the
> >>past, and
> >>> >>PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience
> >>(higher
> >>> >>percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable
> >>reactions).
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there,
but I
> >>didn't
> >>> >>take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of
Ketamine
> >>and
> >>> >>Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are
both
> >>> >>considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
> >>> >>sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K,
> >>and 1 hit
> >>> >>of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30
> >>minutes later
> >>> >>(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a
> >>bad time
> >>> >>(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half
> >>hit was
> >>> >>ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was
just
> >>> >>overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because
> >>everything
> >>> >>looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was
> >>admitted
> >>> >>for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth
(two of
> >>them
> >>> >>cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the
combination of
> >>> >>decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties
of
> >>K (which
> >>> >>it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E. 
> >>Swore
> >>> >>he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
> >>> >>
> >>> >>A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing
> >>number of
> >>> >>"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in
the
> >>late
> 
=== message truncated ===



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 04:11:37 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:  Superfly/Curtis Mayfield/soundtrack by womack
To: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org,
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---Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com> wrote:
>
> this track can also be found on the CD "Pimps, Players & Private
Eyes."
> 
> This collection is the bomb.....has all the best tunes from the
genre like
> "Back Stabbers," Shaft, " etc.....


not to mention "across 110th street" by bobby womack, featured in
opening credits of the latest tarrentino film.  i've been looking for
that particular womack album for years now...

-messiah






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 04:13:41 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:08:47 -0800
From: Czefir <Czefir@ix.netcom.com>
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my good friend nico...some of you may know him :)....needs a ride from
sjsu to lightseed...if you think you may have the space and goodness in
your heart to give him a ride...please call him at 408-924-8487 :)

arangments are to be made through him :) i am merely a messenger :)

thank you :)
Megan          Czefir

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 04:49:50 1998
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From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: <rickf@AirLink.com>, <haze@netgate.net>, <Bbong@goplay.com>,
  "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: lightseed preparty dinner in the southbay !!!!!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:17:05 -0800
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How does 8pm at Chilli's on Winchester sound to the rest
of ya'll ... that is open to negotiations if it is too late or
too early ...

Haze and I will be waiting for whoever shows up outside ...
look for a dude wearing torn up jeans and a Haze (tm) raver
bracelet

my number is 408-246-5991 if you need to call me ...

peace & like really loud music,

Rudi

The content of this message | mailto:rudir@aimnet.com
in no way reflects the      | mailto:rrughoon@mipos3.intel.com
opinion of my employer :)   | http://www.aimnet.com/~rudir/
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 06:15:53 1998
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To: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
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  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Superfly/Curtis Mayfield/soundtrack by womack 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 98 20:11:03 PST."
             <19980124041103.19671.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> 
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 22:15:40 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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As a proud owner of a while bunch of Curtis Mayfield LP's and CD's I
give *big* *props* to this discussion. I personally would like to go to
a rave where they're playing some of this kind of KWALITY FUNK in the
chill room, along with a nice smattering of groups Mayfield has helped
produce including Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight and the Pips, The
Staples Singers, etc. Throw in some Meters and Tom Brown and some
24-Carat Black for flava... And don't forget that when you hear that
orchestral swell in a classic 70's "blaxploitation" tune, that was
originally Curtis Mayfield's idea!

I was lucky enough to attend a few Curtis Mayfield shows in the late
80's before he got paralyzed and retired; these were some of the best
live shows i've ever seen. This man epitomizes good love and good vibe
and true soul & funk and he's one of the few performers where I don't
mind overt christian content prevalent in his music. (I could probably
handle christianity better if more christians had the kind of love and
understanding and sincerity that Curtis Mayfield has.)

I personally think it's time to play "name that rave curtis mayfield
sample" -- i hereby start this game with the following song, which
samples the vocal from Mayfield's "if there's hell below, we're all
gonna go":
	Glam -- Hell's Party (DJ Ricci Mix).

(it's a really good song -- which is surprising because it's kinda 
trancy sounding.)

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 07:31:48 1998
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From: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>
To: "'dreamer@ziplink.net'" <dreamer@ziplink.net>,
  Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: MoS/nudity
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:35:12 -0800
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An besides...
Once yer IN.... you can at that point decide to take it all off.... 
Just be sure to leave your running shoes on so that you can outrun
Security!  (planet rock ref)

...We were at Narnia this year and there was "the nude chick"...
obviously out of her
Mind on something or Another....  We were all the way up the hill in the
main trance
Area... and there she was... sitting quite peacefully in the cold (near
freezing) bare
Ass on the bark patches on the ground.  Then her huffing and puffing
friends come
Panting up (after running up the large hill)(Snow Valley regulars know
what I'm talking about!) 
To get her... and just like my dogs do when they get out and I'm trying
to catch them, 
 she waited until they were with 15 feet and she sprang to her feet and
took off again... 
her friends were eXhausted... and finally gave up chasing her around the
entire party....
security got her though.  it took like 5 guys to escourt her down to the
main lodge area.
Funny Lotus didn't mention anything about her... she was more
entertaining than the
(supposed) 50ft tall golden Budha...

It was hilarious...

....But then again... there was always "tweaker boy" at Karama Agama
(psy trance desert party) 
(again on a mind Alerting substAnce no doubt)... there he was, only in a
pair of boxers... laying on the ground
In the breast stroke position in the sand, breast- stroking away into
the morning.  he was
REALLY getting into it... heh.... pulling with might with each kick....
Wearing off the outer
Layer of his skin with each stroke....  

Oh the good ole days

Thanks for the memory tangent initiator....

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.... 

gEoff ;)

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	dreamer@ziplink.net [SMTP:dreamer@ziplink.net]
	Sent:	Friday, January 23, 1998 12:01 PM
	To:	Rave Friends; Layne Loomis
	Subject:	Re: MoS/nudity

	I'm not in favor of dress codes of any kind, unless they are
designed to
	heighten fun (i.e. you must come dressed as a member of the
opposite sex),
	but as codes go, "You must wear clothes to get in" seems
relatively
	liberal.  8)

	                                <<< Starchild >>>

	Layne shared (in part):

	>there were dress codes at two of the four clubs I went
	>to but it was more in the lines of clothes must be
	>worn, apparently they were having problems with naked
	>folks ;), but then again this was Spain not London.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 09:01:55 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:05:52 -0800 (PST)
From: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
Subject: SRR:A Search for Pisces? 
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hello some of u know me!! some of u don't!! but my
b-day party is comin up...March 6th....yep thats
right i'm a pisces...ARE there any other PISCES out
there??? 
just curious cuz we all know the scorpios got there
time on here.. so why shouldnt we??love jeremy



===

~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~








From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 09:09:48 1998
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From: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:08:10 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR: boy problems
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so this has nothing to do with raves and etcetera.  I don't even know why I am
going here on the list.  I guess I just feel like typing and being it late as
it is, I can't call anyone and kvetch.  

You know when ya got phat crush on someone?  And you really like them> Not
just for a play, but for real?   And damn, then you see them and get
that/those hug(s), and you go home and you are sitting and you are just
spacin, dreamin, whateva and you can smell the person?  And you wonder where
it is coming from?  then you smell you clothes and you realize it's just the
hint of their cologne and all you want is that person?

But in the course of the night, you aren't really sure what happens.  Because
he gives his number to some other girl and then walkes away with out saying
goodbye (but you already said bye to him so it's just kinda redundant at that
point).  And you wonder what is up.  His friend told you randomly one day that
he thought you were cute (before you had ever even talked with the guy) and
sure it's flattery, but, what(?).  And his friend tells you he's really shy so
you use that as an excuse, but you know that's not it either.  

After a while you just come to the conclusion that he just isn't intrested,
but the crush remains.  And you haven't had a crush on anyone like this in
over a year (can't talk, think, breath, nervous, sweaty palms, scared and
excited all at the same time) because he seems like a really nice boy.  And
even though you know he isn't interested, you can still smell him on you.  And
the smell makes you hurt, but makes you smile and makes you want him all the
more.

Ida know.  Fukkit.  I figure I just look like a bitch, and that's why he
doesn't like me.  It makes me feel better (almost but not really, I just keep
telling myself that). 

So, I'll stop bitching now.  I am sorry.  I just felt like typing.  Have fun
at the party you choose tonight!  Be safe, be careful, and know, someone is
watching over you, someone cares.

Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 09:55:13 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:54:41 EST
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Wha sup everyone

   k i aint been in the scene since about tha first month of 96 when i was out
in NYC.  ive been ta a few out here but they were hella bunk an over-rated.
so im goin ta hit tha scene for anotha shot at it.  i just wanted yall ta know
who i was and where im from.  check it, ill be at light seed if any on carez.
im a guy bout 6'2" green beanie light blue Jnco's an a black fery jacket.  L8
~Jeremy

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 15:53:15 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:53:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces? 
In-Reply-To: <19980124090552.15666.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com>
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 sorry, I don't have any Pisces for ya but where coming up on the day of
Aquarians..=).......



On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, jeremy bispo wrote:

> 
> hello some of u know me!! some of u don't!! but my
> b-day party is comin up...March 6th....yep thats
> right i'm a pisces...ARE there any other PISCES out
> there??? 
> just curious cuz we all know the scorpios got there
> time on here.. so why shouldnt we??love jeremy
> 
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> ~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 16:34:44 1998
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From: Kalidosope <Kalidosope@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e6435819.34ca1712@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:30:08 EST
To: mercutio73@rocketmail.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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Heya 
Iam a Pisces too! My b-day is Feb.24! I will finally be 18 (thank god) 
I am a pisces inside out! I am always day dreaming, creating new things and
yes I do get my head stuck in the clouds from time to time, but hey its ok
every now and then! Oh yea my girl Lara is a pisces too! Thats why we get
along so well :c)
Well happy B-day all you pisces!

Love,
Amanda

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 18:38:52 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: (NRR)Re: Ecstacy Club - the Movie
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Hey man, I take offense to that one.  the people that do know me and 
know who Baby Huey was, a cartoon about an overgrown duck with a bonnnet 
and diaper, somewhat naive, well really fucking dumb is the word,  you'd 
be able to put the two together.  :P

>and calling themselves "baby" something, with a
>pacifier to match...
>

I'm going to college now, what else do you people want from me?
I even drive an automobile called a Honda

Sincerely joking and borred,

BaByHueY aka Danny


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 19:43:48 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:40:08 -0800
To: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: josh sorkin <case@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: NRR: boy problems
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sometimes you seem to have grasped something and

kaboom

it falls apart SO quickly that you are surprised by the matchsticks it was
made of because you thought it was strong, stronger than anything you ever
knew.

but now you know.

and when it finally starts to sink into your head that they don't want
anything to do with you because you crossed some line

because you couldn't have enough

because you are not and never will be what they need

because when you say their name like a mantra the songbirds and rainbows
and magick hyperspace elves swarm about in their full glory
	and when they say your name it's just a name

every face on the street calls theirs to mind

and you sit there, paralyzed, watching the walls until the cinder blocks
can breathe, waiting for the never-gonna-happen phone call

and you find the bitter taste of alcohol passing your lips with alarming
frequency and their image comes through the fog like a hot knife through
butter

and as you wander the desolate city streets at night, your every step
limned by a mocking sodium lamp, you wonder just why it is that beautiful
things are much more subject to the laws of chaos than the lasting ugliness
that follows in their wake.  and the drunken haze that mires your steps and
clouds your eyes gets washed away by a flow of easy tears that stain your
cheeks and fall to the floor like little silver drops.

and you find quite unexpectedly that after all is said and done you don't
care if they never kiss you again, don't care if they never leave the
gentle honey-warm print of their fingers on yours--because just being apart
from them drives you to the brink and then some.

nothing has more pain nerves than the soul.

At 04:08 AM 1/24/98 EST, Just a K1D wrote:
>so this has nothing to do with raves and etcetera.  I don't even know why
I am
>going here on the list.  I guess I just feel like typing and being it late as
>it is, I can't call anyone and kvetch.  
>
>You know when ya got phat crush on someone?  And you really like them> Not
>just for a play, but for real?   And damn, then you see them and get
>that/those hug(s), and you go home and you are sitting and you are just
>spacin, dreamin, whateva and you can smell the person?  And you wonder where
>it is coming from?  then you smell you clothes and you realize it's just the
>hint of their cologne and all you want is that person?
>
>But in the course of the night, you aren't really sure what happens.  Because
>he gives his number to some other girl and then walkes away with out saying
>goodbye (but you already said bye to him so it's just kinda redundant at that
>point).  And you wonder what is up.  His friend told you randomly one day
that
>he thought you were cute (before you had ever even talked with the guy) and
>sure it's flattery, but, what(?).  And his friend tells you he's really
shy so
>you use that as an excuse, but you know that's not it either.  
>
>After a while you just come to the conclusion that he just isn't intrested,
>but the crush remains.  And you haven't had a crush on anyone like this in
>over a year (can't talk, think, breath, nervous, sweaty palms, scared and
>excited all at the same time) because he seems like a really nice boy.  And
>even though you know he isn't interested, you can still smell him on you.
And
>the smell makes you hurt, but makes you smile and makes you want him all the
>more.
>
>Ida know.  Fukkit.  I figure I just look like a bitch, and that's why he
>doesn't like me.  It makes me feel better (almost but not really, I just keep
>telling myself that). 
>
>So, I'll stop bitching now.  I am sorry.  I just felt like typing.  Have fun
>at the party you choose tonight!  Be safe, be careful, and know, someone is
>watching over you, someone cares.
>
>Ms. K1dd
>
>
-------------------------------
"i scream so much.  you know what i mean.  this electric stream.  and my
tears in league with the wires and energy and my machine."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 19:44:42 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: brain upgrade
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Dear Benchun,
I know your secret, and many others do as well, and very many are in 
fear of the secret in which you try to make a profit...It's not a new 
brain, it is all about learning to deal and anylize the one that we were 
alll gifted with the day we were conceived
It's called "cool it with the drugs"
We can find it if you look carefuly at yourself, your soul, your 
meanning, and your happiness.  It is very difficult, but it's there.

Tkae crae y no mas drugz 4 whileee ti helps really lots for yer brane.

>From sfraves-owner-poobear=hotmail.com@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 23 
12:45:55 1998
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>Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:45:38 -0500
>To: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>, peter@niles.com, 
sfraves@hyperreal.org
>From: b e n c h u n <benchun@MIT.EDU>
>Subject: brain upgrade
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>
>At 02:46 PM 1/23/98 EST, Natasha426 wrote:
>>why tempt fate?? your brain's precious and it's not like you can get 
an
>>upgrade...
>
>until now, that was true. now, benchun enterprises (the people who 
brought
>you the transparent ceiling-mounted pulldown smoker's helmet) brings 
you
>brain++. that's right, if you only have a brain, it's time to UPGRADE!
>
>our new brain++ features over twice the storage capacity, processing 
power
>and a new organizational structure! (some older data may be 
incompatible.)
>in addition, this is the first time we have been able to offer 
telepathic
>capabilities at a price that anyone can afford! don't miss it! join the
>global conciousness today!
>
>
>. . . . . . .
>benchun@mit.edu
>http://mdma.mit.edu/
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:03:50 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: lightseed preparty dinner in the southbay !!!!!
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 Hello all,
I think I might jus' come down and meet some of you out there at 
Chilli's if that is goin to be the spot.  I can't make it to the party 
and I have no money due to a mishap at work...got fired fer going to 
school...I feel like such a criminal you know?  but I'll look for you 
guys okay? 
Peas,
Danny

>How does 8pm at Chilli's on Winchester sound to the rest
>of ya'll ... that is open to negotiations if it is too late or
>too early ...
>
>Haze and I will be waiting for whoever shows up outside ...
>look for a dude wearing torn up jeans and a Haze (tm) raver
>bracelet
>
>my number is 408-246-5991 if you need to call me ...
>
>peace & like really loud music,
>
>Rudi
>
>The content of this message | mailto:rudir@aimnet.com
>in no way reflects the      | mailto:rrughoon@mipos3.intel.com
>opinion of my employer :)   | http://www.aimnet.com/~rudir/
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:14:43 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:19:34 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces? 
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I am a fish.
Theres lots of fish here so we should have a fish dinner.
But we will probably have to get someone to help
us organize it...you know your friends ...the ones that get
lost in the port-apoty...they're probably a fish.
Not too adept in the real world but after they figure
out how to get out of the port a poty they will fascinate
you with the incredible spiritual experience they had
while trapped or maybe a way to express compassion for the
poor portapotty that has to sit there and suffer all night.
Einstein was a pisces who was famous for forgetting where
he lived and had to be reminded of his address quite often.
He was born on 3.14 which is equal to pi. C=eqauls light
as in his formula e=mc2. Pi c's things a little differently
than most. C all you fish in the sea of light!

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

ps. any of you fish that want a free astrology chart, let me know.

-----------------------------------------------------------

jeremy bispo wrote:
> 
> hello some of u know me!! some of u don't!! but my
> b-day party is comin up...March 6th....yep thats
> right i'm a pisces...ARE there any other PISCES out
> there???
> just curious cuz we all know the scorpios got there
> time on here.. so why shouldnt we??love jeremy
> 
> ===
> 
> ~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:21:01 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:20:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces? 
To: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Me me me!!  100% Pisces!! 2/25 baybee!!  Same b-day at George Harrison! 
and socal superstar DJ JBondy!  :)



On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, jeremy bispo wrote:

> 
> hello some of u know me!! some of u don't!! but my
> b-day party is comin up...March 6th....yep thats
> right i'm a pisces...ARE there any other PISCES out
> there??? 
> just curious cuz we all know the scorpios got there
> time on here.. so why shouldnt we??love jeremy
> 
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> ~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:39:11 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:42:21 -0800
To: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
From: Megan Haggerty <megan@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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Another proud fishie, right here!  March 12th, 1973.
I love being a pisces.  I find that I can connect with most anyone.  But of
course, the deepest connections are with my fellow fish.  We just know.

So, we're wishy washy, you say?  Nah... we're just comfortable with our
confusion.  Hell, I'd rather be confused than fool myself into thinking
I've got it all figured out.

Megan, swimming off into the sunset



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:39:34 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <da3f215.34ca5173@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:39:13 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP: D & B TONIGHT/SPECIAL CELEBRATION!!!
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       *TONIGHT*TONIGHT*TONIGHT*TONIGHT*TONIGHT*TONIGHT*TONIGHT*

       =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 Saturday, January 24th we will be celebrating the B-days of DJs SAGE & NOEL
(and all other Aquarians..)

Come on down and enjoy good D & B...
Various Jungle Djs (NOEL, SAGE, UFO, JASON MOUSE, ABSTRACT.......)

THE TOP
424 HAIGHT ST S.F.
10-2
21+
$3 donation benefiting the poor Aquarians fund.   8}

INFO LINE 415.331.1500 ext. 160

*next outing: WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 4TH*
   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

PHUNCKATECK
THE LAST WORD IN FUTURE SOUNDS OF DRUM & BASS

peace  8}~

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:53:44 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:04:18 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
CC: peter@niles.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: PCP&XTC etc etc...some chem facts
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That's true. I don't know exactly how you do it, but I know that MDMA,
MDA, MDEA, MBDB, 2-CB,DOM, and a million other Phenethylamines are a
cross between Mescaline and Methamphetamine. At, least that's what I
havem read.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Natasha426 wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 1/23/98, b((mer wrote:
> 
> <<I've heard from people who have more info that all kinds of nasty stuff
> goes into making it...the chemicals that are also used in animal tranqs,
> rocket fuel, and embalming fluid.  I know that sounds like propaganda and
> paranoia, but I've heard from several serious people that this is the case.
> or at least something close to it.>>
> 
> Well, from my nerdly perspective, I guess you could say that just about
> *anything* that's made chemically, including the most beneficial antibiotics
> or anticancer drugs or antihypertensives, or whatever...these compounds *all*
> start off being  made from some pretty nasty stuff.  I mean, stuff that causes
> blindness or sterility or cancer or worse....but the beauty of chemistry (haha
> at least for me ;D  ) is that you can take all these malicious chemicals and
> make something very different and (usually) non-toxic from them...
> 
> So...yeah, pcp's made from really nasty stuff, but then again, just about
> everything else is, too...
> 
> ....hence concludes our chemistry lesson for the afternoon ....=D =D =D
> 
> Have a fun weekend!!
> 
> luv n hugs,
> natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:55:01 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:53:55 EST
To: unclenoa@netcom.com, mercutio73@rocketmail.com
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: *Mushy needs to help a friend....
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Hey all you beautiful people!!!!!
       A good friend of mine is coming to town on monday day and will be
leaving tuesday night....so I have to show this person what SF is all about in
just 30 hours.....only 10 hours of darkness....is there anything going on
Monday nights (dancing) that I can bring him too???? Also, does anyone have
any suggestions for what to do during the daytime??? He is a very brilliant
person that likes to go dancing (as most of us are) So please I would really
appreciate it =)=)=) One more thing....what's going on tonight that costs
around $10.00????? Hope to hear from you guys soon!!!!! I WUV U!!!!!

       <3<3<3<3<3******MushyB!!!!!!! or Melissa!!!!!!!******<3<3<3<3<3

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:56:27 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:56:00 -0500
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SLiNKy Dee <dynamic@interlog.com>
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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More cool jokes can be found on my page:
http://www.interlog.com/~dynamic/funstuff.htm

I'm a Sagittarius btw :)

[warning profanity and insults below]


                        REALISTIC ASTROLOGY
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 AQUARIUS:  (Jan 20 to Feb 18)  You have an inventive mind and are
 inclined to be progressive.  You lie a great deal.  On the other hand you
 are careless and impractical, causing you to repeat the same mistakes.
 Everyone thinks you are a fucking jerk.

 PISCES:  (Feb 19 to Mar 20)  You have a vivid imagination and often think
 you are being followed by the CIA or FBI.  You have minor influence over
 your friends and people resent you for flaunting your power.  You lack
 confidence and are generally a coward.  Pisces people screw small animals
 and pick their noses a lot.

 ARIES:  (Mar 21 to Apr 20)  You are the pioneer type and hold most people
 in contempt.  You are quick tempered, impatient and scornful of advice.
 In short, you are a prick.

 TAURUS:  (Apr 21 to May 20)  You are practical and persistant.  You have
 a dogged determination and work like hell.  Most people think you are
 stubborn and thickheaded.  You are nothing but a goddamn communist.

 GEMINI:  (May 21 to June 20)  You are a quick and intelligent thinker.
 People like you because you are bisexual.  However, you are inclined to
 expect too much for too little.  This means you are a cheap bastard.

 CANCER:  (June 21 to July 22)  You are sympathetic and understanding
 towards other people's needs.  They think you are a sucker.  You are
 always putting things off.  This is why you will always be on welfare and
 will never be worth a shit.

 LEO:  (July 23 to Aug 22)  You consider yourself a born leader.  Others
 think you are pushy.  Most Leos are bullies.  You are vain and cannot
 tolerate honest criticism.  Your arrogance is disgusting.  Leo people are
 thieving bastards and kiss mirrors a lot.

 VIRGO:  (Aug 23 to Sep 22)  You are the logical type and hate disorder.
 This nitpicking is sickening to your friends.  You are cold and
 unemitional and often fall asleep while screwing.  Virgos make good bus
 drivers and pimps.

 LIBRA:  (Sep 23 to Oct 22)  You are the artistic type and have a
 difficult time with reality.  If you are male you are probably queer.
 Chances for employment and monetary gain are excellent.  Most Libra women
 are whores.  Libras usually die of venereal disease.

 SCORPIO:  (Oct 23 to Nov 21)  You are shrewd in business and cannot be
 trusted.  You shall achieve the pinnacle of success because of your total
 lack of ethics.  You are a perfect son of a bitch.  Most Scorpios are
 murdered.

 SAGITTARIUS:  (Nov 22 to Dec 21)  You are optimistic and enthusiastic.
 You have a reckless tendency to rely on luck because you have no talent.
 The vast majority of Sagittarians are drunks and potheads.  People laugh
 at  you because you are always getting fucked.

 CAPRICORN:  (Dec 22 to Jan 19)  You are conservative and afraid of taking
 risks.  This means you are basically chicken.  There has never been a
 Capricorn of any importance whatsoever.  You should kill yourself.




At 12:42 1/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Another proud fishie, right here!  March 12th, 1973.
>I love being a pisces.  I find that I can connect with most anyone.  But of
>course, the deepest connections are with my fellow fish.  We just know.
>
>So, we're wishy washy, you say?  Nah... we're just comfortable with our
>confusion.  Hell, I'd rather be confused than fool myself into thinking
>I've got it all figured out.
>
>Megan, swimming off into the sunset
>
>
>
>


                .-.     .-.     .-.
 |||||/\/\/\/\ /    Slinky Dee /   \ /\/\/\|||||
              '     `-'     `-'  
formerly SLiNKy GaL	     CASHP #26-96-I, FOA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 20:59:02 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:04:58 +0000
From: jamesp@netscape.com (James Park)
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Hello everybody,

Static's anniversary one was a mad mad party.

The space was uncluttered, open, and well ventilated. The different rooms were
all pretty well soundproofed so a different vibe could be shared in each one. 

The main room's sound system was fucking SICK. Big beautiful clear sound,
booming bass, no mud here. The turntables looked new and the mixer was
high-end club installation Vestax (45 or 46, I think). In the back of the
space was a carpeted chill area with acquariums filled with different flora
and fauna. 

The little side room was intimate and definitely an experience in its own
right, not getting bleedover from the main room that I noticed. Nice funky
hiphop triphop etc here. Good space to catch a breath and a cooler vibe.

If one wished, there was a little balcony area accessible via a tall
stepladder in the main room. It had some cargo netting between it and the main
room to give the upper area a feeling of being a bit apart from what was going
on below in the main room.

The party was limited to 200 tickets I think, and given the space, it seemed
the perfect number. Plenty of room to dance, sit, lie down, talk, meet with
others, watch what was going on... Never did it feel sardine-packed, or
claustrophobic to me due to the small number of people and the high ceilings
in most of the rooms. Everybody I met was really nice and respectful of each
others space, giving up room when it was needed. So many beautiful people were there.

The sets I was able to catch were all pretty tight and proficient which for
the Static crew is not just a nice thing that happens every once in awhile,
but consistently in just about all the events I've seen them play in. The
highlights of the night for me are Sutekh to Freaky Chakra to Re-Ach. 

I came to the party in the middle of Sutekh's set and immediately got into the
groove of the harder techno he was spinning. Good pounding beats, interesting
rhythms for the mind. I like Sutekh's style very much because it's clean and
driving and has the feel of completeness, of getting the job done, and done well.

It was time for Freaky Chakra to come on, and the turnover from Sutekh to
Freaky Chakra was a beautiful sight/sound to behold. Sutekh's pounding to
Freaky's beats. Freaky's set started out pretty minimal, kinda sounding like
something from the Single Cell Orchestra vs. Freaky Chakra albums. After the
transition was over, Freaky just started to pile on things which I HAVEN'T
heard from him before. Damn, he had some good basslines and loops, AND he
strung them all together into a seamless set of inspired "freak"uences which
definitely gave ME a kick in the ass. Nice little setup he had too. A buncha
rackmounts, a sampler which seems good for playing out live, and a little
analog keyboard. Oh yeah, he did a little something using his headphones as a
mike and doing a little electro vox. Cool, funny, cute!

Then it was Re-Ach's turn. Once again, the transition between sets just blew
me away. It's JUNGLE, baby! Freaky Chakra had some exciting stuff and Re-Ach
had a kickass platter merrily spinning away. Maybe a party could try to just
do transitions between all the people playing that night one right after
another ;) ECLECTIC! I saw a lot of white labels being spun, Re-Ach keeping
things new and fresh as he can. Unlike some of the sets at the weekly
Static@Liquid, Re-Ach didn't do his high-energy chop-it-up
quick-with-the-crossfader as much as I've seen him do so before. The few
records I did see him spin before leaving, he pretty much let them play out
their course then popped on a new record. He was spinning some mad shit though
and taught me a little trick with the crossfader which I appreciate very much.

This party was so very well orchestrated I am STILL shaking my head over it.
Great space, great system, great people, great lineup... Static always
impresses me but this just kicked my ass. It seems they got the process down.
Except maybe the voicemail for directions when the mailbox filled up and
wouldn't give the location of the map point after midnight ;) How'd these guys
get such a cool space? I want to LIVE there.

Bay Area, we are totally lucky to have a crew like Static. I haven't been to a
party I've enjoyed this much in a long, long time.

Mad props to the Static Crew. See you on Tuesday!

Cheers,
jamespark

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 21:00:22 1998
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Subject: Re: superfly PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
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No, kitty flipping isn't animal abuse! That's cow tipping.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

megan hug wrote:
> 
> animal abuse...
> 
> At 02:03 PM 1/23/98 -0800, chris wrote:
> >Wow, you'll have to tell me your pcp story one of these days. What's
> >kitty-flipping?
> >
> >
> >
> >At 12:23 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>curtis mayfield, "superfly" soundtrack.  one of the best
> >>blaxploitation soundtracks ever made.  once you get past the overt
> >>drug references, i think the lyrics are actually rather poignant, and
> >>a little sad.  but maybe that's implied more in the context of the
> >>whole album.
> >>
> >>also, to paul hayden (i can't find your address to cc this to) - the
> >>info that pcp is available in liquid form reinforces my suspicion that
> >>i've taken pcp and lsd together in blotter form.  whatever the fuck i
> >>was on that night, the experience was terrifying enough to make me
> >>quit doing drugs altogether for five years.  i'd tell y'all the story,
> >>but it would take pages.  let's just say i did some amazingly fucked
> >>up shit that night, straight out of the health class horror stories,
> >>and i'm lucky to still be alive.  i really don't advise taking pcp.
> >>
> >>kitty-flipping, on the other hand, is rather fun.
> >>
> >>-messiah
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Reminds me of the song "I'm your pusher man"
> >>>
> >>> I can't remember all the lyrics..isn't that on some soundtrack
> >>> to a movie? I want to get it, it's great! But I forgot the artist.
> >>> It goes something like this:
> >>>
> >>> I have got
> >>> what you need
> >>> Have some coke
> >>> Have some weed
> >>>
> >>> I'm your pusher man
> >>>
> >>> It's hilarious...
> >>>
> >>> love kim
> >>> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
> >>>          what does it mean when someone says
> >>>             "my computer went down on me"?
> >>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> >>> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> >>> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> >>> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
> >>> To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
> >>> Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> >>> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 12:23 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: PCP&XTC/Domex/Elephant Flip
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >Hi Andy,
> >>> >
> >>> >        Thanks for the informative post... Any idea, from your
> >>friend's
> >>> >episode, what kind of *mental* reaction to expect from PCP?  Fear?
> >>> >Aggression?  How long did it last?
> >>> >
> >>> >        Do you have any experience with what form PCP is usually
> >>sold in?
> >>> >
> >>> >        Your "bootyflipping" comment reminds me of a great old rap
> >>single
> >>> >by Ice-T I have called "I'm Your Pusher"... It starts out with a
> >>hilarious
> >>> >dialogue bit that goes:
> >>> >
> >>> >         dude:  "Yo, what's up man, I need to get high man, I need
> >>to get
> >>> hold
> >>> >                of some big-time dope, man, you know where I can
> >>get a
> >>> key?"
> >>> >
> >>> >        Ice-T:  "I know where you can get a LP."
> >>> >
> >>> >         dude:  "LP, man, have you went crazy man, I'm talkin' bout
> >>some
> >>> >dope man, I
> >>> >                need to get high right now man, why don't you hook
> >>me up
> >>> >with a 5-0?"
> >>> >
> >>> >        Ice-T:  "I can hook you up with a 12 inch."
> >>> >
> >>> >         dude:  "12 inch?  Man you done went crazy, you don't even
> >>know
> >>> >what time it
> >>> >                 is!  Out here on the streets and don't know what
> >>time it
> >>> >is, man,
> >>> >                 you's a fool!"
> >>> >
> >>> >        Ice-T:  "Yo homeboy, you a fool!  You don't know what time
> >>it is,
> >>> >out here
> >>> >                 messin' up your mind, you know what I'm sayin'?
> >>This is
> >>> >Ice-T talkin'
> >>> >                 to you boy, I'ma tell you what time it is!"
> >>> >
> >>> >                (bust into phat rap at this point)   8)
> >>> >
> >>> >May the vibe be with us,
> >>> >
> >>> >                                <<< Starchild >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>To anyone considering this idea... (Paul, I hope you read this,
> >>even if I
> >>> >>did write it).
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Please take the time to read the follwing, collected from a few
> >>minutes of
> >>> >>research (one more hungry lunch break, but it's better than having
> >>to deal
> >>> >>with the effects of someone on this crap) on searching for
> >>Phencyclidine
> >>> >>(PCP). Remember that any time you cocktail, you should be ready
> >>for the
> >>> >>effects of either drug, PLUS a whole slew of potential new
> >>effects...
> >>> >>especially with a drug as unpredictable as PCP.  I mean... let's
> >>just say,
> >>> >>you've posted about an unpleasant cocktailing experience in the
> >>past, and
> >>> >>PCP bites a LOT harder than LSD does in most people's experience
> >>(higher
> >>> >>percentage of bad trips, higher percentage of undesirable
> >>reactions).
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Also of note, I have some second hand accounts (I was there, but I
> >>didn't
> >>> >>take it) of experiments with "Kitty Flipping", the use of Ketamine
> >>and
> >>> >>Ecstacy together, and based on the similarities (K and PCP are both
> >>> >>considered dissociatives, although PCP is notorius for funkier
> >>> >>sideeffects, etc) I'll add this... the person took a "hit" of K,
> >>and 1 hit
> >>> >>of E at the same time, followed by another half hit of E 30
> >>minutes later
> >>> >>(the person would normally take 2-3 hits of E). He didn't have a
> >>bad time
> >>> >>(with the exception of barfing almost immediately after the half
> >>hit was
> >>> >>ingested, and a 15 minute "coping"  period where the high was just
> >>> >>overwhelming, and he asked that ALL lights be shut off, because
> >>everything
> >>> >>looked ugly, menacing, and any light at all hurt his eyes) was
> >>admitted
> >>> >>for dental surgery the next day to fix 3 (!) cracked teeth (two of
> >>them
> >>> >>cracked BELOW the gumline, ew!), probably due to the combination of
> >>> >>decrease in sensation of pain from the dissociative properties of
> >>K (which
> >>> >>it shares with PCP), and the gnawing/clenching tendencies of E.
> >>Swore
> >>> >>he'd never do it again and felt like shit for a couple days...
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Some crap I put together and assorted comments...
> >>> >>
> >>> >>A lot of people speculate that the majority of the increasing
> >>number of
> >>> >>"LSD" overdoses coming into the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in the
> >>late
> >>> >>sixties were actually either STP (aka DOM) or PCP (which became
> >>obvious
> >>> >>quickly because methods used to calm people having bad trips on acid
> >>> >>generally irritate DOM and PCP bad trips).  Eventually, people
> >>selling PCP
> >>> >>and other drugs similar to it in pill form and calling it ACID/LSD
> >>led to
> >>> >>the emergence of the blotter hit, which made such substitution
> >>impossible.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Cops are scared shitless of the drug, due to the high percentage
> >>of very
> >>> >>er...  violent reactions.  Police reports include people breaking
> >>out of
> >>> >>handcuffs, lifting cars, etc... honestly, I don't believe that
> >>completely,
> >>> >>but the combination of psychotic behavior, paranoid delusions and
> >>reduced
> >>> >>sensitivity to pain, and the difficulty "talking someone down"
> >>from a bad
> >>> >>PCP trip should rule this drug out for all but the hardiest
> >>explorers.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>PCP sucks in general... I mean a lot of people say, "they give it
> >>to my
> >>> >>cat"... well, they give canned liver to your cat... it's also a
> >>lot easier
> >>> >>to deal with a 10 pound cat with "emergence phenomenon" (the
> >>reason PCP is
> >>> >>no longer considered for clinical use on humans - coming out of
> >>being "put
> >>> >>under" with a violent reaction, considered half seizure, half
> >>psychotic
> >>> >>episode) than a 150 pound human. Also, a cat can make a life of
> >>sleeping
> >>> >>and eating, both of which require little brain function... most
> >>people end
> >>> >>up having to keep some sort of job, social life, personality, etc.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Try "bootyflipping" instead, the combination of 150mgs of dope vinyl
> >>> >>(sometimes taken two or more at a time), usually administered
> >>aurally
> >>> >>(often cocktailed with a preponderance (> 120db) of "boom", a
> >>street slang
> >>> >>for sonic vibration registering between 15-100 hz), and dancing
> >>your ass
> >>> >>off.  Side effects include a shit eating grin, being referred to
> >>as "that
> >>> >>mofo that can't dance" or conversely "holy shit that freak is
> >>going off",
> >>> >>jonesing for more and more beats, exhaustion and dehydration (so
> >>remember
> >>> >>to keep those fluids coming...)
> >>> >>
> >>> >>There is nothing about MDMA that would "take away" the bad effects
> >>of PCP,
> >>> >>and it adds a couple that wouldn't work too well with PCP's known
> >>side
> >>> >>effects (listed elsewhere in this post).
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Some other throw ins...
> >>> >>
> >>> >>FROM HYPERREAL.ORG
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg.
> >>> >>448-455
> >>> >>
> >>> >>.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic
> >>> >>reactions in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours.  Then
> >>a short
> >>> >>history of its debut in San Francisco as PeaCe Pill and Hog.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present
> >>prominent body
> >>> >>image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background
> >>of
> >>> >>sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization,
> >>"sheer
> >>> >>nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel
> >>inebriated, are
> >>> >>usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
> >>> >>Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their
> >>bodies and
> >>> >>are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not
> >>perceive
> >>> >>pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions
> >>> >>(especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank
> >>> >>hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those
> >>produced
> >>> >>by LSD. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present.
> >>> >>Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients.
> >>Perhaps the
> >>> >>hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman
> >>> >>strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and
> >>dissociative
> >>> >>properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap
> >>> >>hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police
> >>officers.
> >>> >>This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by
> >>standing in
> >>> >>front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb
> >>into a
> >>> >>polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or
> >>cliffs.
> >>> >>The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome
> >>mutilation
> >>> >>of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser
> >>pulled
> >>> >>out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her
> >>baby in
> >>> >>cooking oil
> >>> >>
> >>> >>(andyW note:  this may be indicative of a downright screwy
> >>> >>individual who may have decided to cook her kid anyway... I hate
> >>this type
> >>> >>of info, but it's everywhere you look when researching this
> >>drug...).
> >>> >>
> >>> >>There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both
> >>with and
> >>> >>without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug
> >>users
> >>> >>who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Patients with moderate or high dose intoxications are intially
> >>comatose.
> >>> >>Those with moderate-dose intoxications have a relatively short
> >>duration of
> >>> >>coma (several hours) compared with the prolonged coma associated
> >>with
> >>> >>higher-dose exposures (usually lasting 6 hours to several days but
> >>> >>occasionally persisting as long as 10 days).
> >>> >>
> >>> >>The techniques of "talking down" as advocated for most
> >>hallucinogens are
> >>> >>ineffective for PCP and may instead further agitate patients.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>And from other sources... some effects of PCP dosage/overdosage.
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>=== message truncated ===
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> >
> >Christopher Pryor
> >HTML Programmer
> >T H I R D   A G E   M E D I A
> >
> >http://www.thirdage.com
> >
> >(415)267-4642
> >c h r i s @ t h i r d a g e . c o m
> >
> >. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 21:25:35 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:23:05 -0800 (PST)
From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: boy problems
To: Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com>
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totally just insert the word girl where boy is.
Nothing hurts so much as a missed opportunity.
pjf





---Just a K1D <JustaK1D@aol.com> wrote:
>
> so this has nothing to do with raves and etcetera. 
I don't even know why I am
> going here on the list.  I guess I just feel like
typing and being it late as
> it is, I can't call anyone and kvetch.  
> 
> You know when ya got phat crush on someone?  And
you really like them> Not
> just for a play, but for real?   And damn, then you
see them and get
> that/those hug(s), and you go home and you are
sitting and you are just
> spacin, dreamin, whateva and you can smell the
person?  And you wonder where
> it is coming from?  then you smell you clothes and
you realize it's just the
> hint of their cologne and all you want is that
person?
> 
> But in the course of the night, you aren't really
sure what happens.  Because
> he gives his number to some other girl and then
walkes away with out saying
> goodbye (but you already said bye to him so it's
just kinda redundant at that
> point).  And you wonder what is up.  His friend
told you randomly one day that
> he thought you were cute (before you had ever even
talked with the guy) and
> sure it's flattery, but, what(?).  And his friend
tells you he's really shy so
> you use that as an excuse, but you know that's not
it either.  
> 
> After a while you just come to the conclusion that
he just isn't intrested,
> but the crush remains.  And you haven't had a crush
on anyone like this in
> over a year (can't talk, think, breath, nervous,
sweaty palms, scared and
> excited all at the same time) because he seems like
a really nice boy.  And
> even though you know he isn't interested, you can
still smell him on you.  And
> the smell makes you hurt, but makes you smile and
makes you want him all the
> more.
> 
> Ida know.  Fukkit.  I figure I just look like a
bitch, and that's why he
> doesn't like me.  It makes me feel better (almost
but not really, I just keep
> telling myself that). 
> 
> So, I'll stop bitching now.  I am sorry.  I just
felt like typing.  Have fun
> at the party you choose tonight!  Be safe, be
careful, and know, someone is
> watching over you, someone cares.
> 
> Ms. K1dd
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 22:10:45 1998
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Go to lightseed if you are looking for something to do....I think it will
be fun this year!


hope to see you guys there!

shira

	




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 22:38:49 1998
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From: "Break Dancer" <breaker2000@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Jungle Party tonight in SAC
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Hello everyone....
Are there any davis, sac, or nearby area ravers/ party peoples that 
wantto go to a jungle party tonight in sacramento?
heres the info i found from the calender.

Saturday, January 24th - Motorway presents Education
   B-Side, Kevin, Dre, Hans.
   $5. Sacramento. 916.491.5891
 
 is there any more info than this?? 
well email me if ya wanna go....ill probably drive and i have space in 
my car....ok everyone have fun tonighht :)
peace
Philip
disordr
w00 w00 a cheap jungle party... it's like.... LA ;)
   


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 24 23:53:34 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Paging Drfuzzy...the love doctor is in
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dear dr fuzzy

Mrs J-not her real name wrote:
> Whats up fellow raver. My name is P~L~U~R**LoGiK
and I am a female 
> typing to you from ******. The ghettoest of all
ghettos *heehee* I 
> just joined this list a few hours ago am totally
unaware of the use of 
> it, but I am sure I'll figure it out. I could
totally use advise on a 
> subject though. See I am seeing this guy, and he's
really sweet and all 
> but the thing is he wants me to stop raving. He
thinks all raves are are 
> a bunch of kids doing drugs, and thats not true. I
am not one at least. 
> I don't know about everyone else but I go for the
vibe, people and 
> muzik...ya know?> So he says stop raving or it's
over. I have been 
> raving for 6 years I'll be damned if I stop now. I
am in  Med School and 
> still find time to rave...*sigh* If only...*heehee*
I am off to find a 
> party. Whats going on tonite NEway????
> PLUR!!
 

dear mrs J,
I hope you don't mind me forwarding you this
anonymously to the list it was a good topic...

My .02$ is that if raving is really important to you
than he should repect your desires.  And if drugs are
the problem then he should respect that you are
intelligent enough to make those decisions.  If not,
then I would hate to say it but raving will be the
least of your problems.  I would tell anyone that it
is not worth it to try to change your life to fit
anyone else's idea of what you should be- you will
only end up down the road with resentment towards
that person.

any others agree?

I hope you don't mind me forwarding this to sfraves. 
I took out any incriminating names.  The list could
use a good topic and with Valentines day coming up
this seemed fitting.

anyway I copied the sfrave calender for you to peruse:

PJF

Saturday, January 24th - 6 in da mornin and On 1
Technologies
presents
   Ground Zero 3: the Resurrection
   2 Year Anniversary
   DJ Doubt (Ministry of Sound/UK), Terry Mullan
(Chicago), Jason Jinx
   (Nervous/NY), Jim Hopkins (Twitch), dB
(Sm:)e/NYC), Dara (Breakbeat
   Science/NY), DJ Dan, Simply Jeff (LA), Hipp-E
(Elevator/Colo), Ghost
&
   Frank Nitty on 4, Tripnotix, DJ Kimo & Scott LIVE,
Joe Lanzon,
Paucus,
   Kwashi, Jedi, Rig-A-Tony, Bryen, Sci-Fi, More TBA.
   3 rooms, free giveaways, fully permitted/safe SF
location.
   Lasers by NU-SALT. Lighting by On 1 Technologies &
Lumatech. Sound by
   JK. Visuals by Liquid Lights.
   8pm-6am, $20. SF. 510.286.7927 415.995.1940
916.484.3734 408.236.2059
   800.590.7032
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Lightseed presents
Lightseed One Year
   Anniversary
   Benefitting the world's rainforests, the Cloud
Forest Institute and
   the Ceiba Foundation.
   John Howard, Sean Murray, Tracy, Joey, Jeff
Taisch, Billy Haste,
   Freaky Chakra (live), Ethan Miller, Anon, Ryan
Cimino, Dutch, Re Ach,
   DJ Jets, Russell, Bonnie, Benji, Eric Brown, Greg
Sandler, Rob Rayle
   (live), Robert Hart (live), Stephen Kent (live).
   $13 w/can $15 w/out - donations go to Food Not
Bombs.
   SF. 415.339.8464 707.329.2189
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Motorway presents Education
   B-Side, Kevin, Dre, Hans.
   $5. Sacramento. 916.491.5891
   
   Saturday, January 24th - Dimentional Transfer
presents The Next Angle
   Oddessy (Air Space Safari, Flipside, Alien), Pat
Ibbetson (Davis),
   Hutch (KFSR/Fresno), Jordan (U.P.S./Ohio), Deep
(PA).
   11pm-?, $7. Fresno. 209.262.8100





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 00:59:02 1998
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From: Ray Vonie <rayvonie@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Feel Good Entertainment
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I will be at both Ground Zero and at Lightseed tonight and will have
some Pre-Sale tickets for Love A-Fair '98 for anyone wishing to purchase
one.  They will be $20.

I will be back and forth between both events.   Just look for the guy
handing out the pretty little red flyers.   See you all tonight.

Keep it Real....    Vlad


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 01:57:46 1998
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very funny....I particularly like the workflip one.
Is these orignials, or did you find these somewhere else?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 02:02:56 1998
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The Global Party Network / Feel Good Ent.  Website is still not fully
working, BUT.....

The Love A-Fair '98 "Underground Carnival" Flyer can be seen and soon
the Global Party Network News Letter # 6 will be joining the flyer.

Click here to see the flyer:  http://www.globalparty.com

Hopefully before the end of the month, the rest of the website will be
on the new server.

Keep it real...   Vlad




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 02:37:59 1998
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From: "Skye Callan" <skyebaby69@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com
Subject: Re: Paging Drfuzzy...the love doctor is in
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This letter got me a little worked up, so I decided to actually reply to 
it...It seems to me that if you have been raving for 6 years, that your 
boyfriend went into this relationship knowing what he was "getting 
into". He should honestly respect your love of music and dancing, just 
as you and anyone else respects other's loves. It would be as if you 
told him to stop seeing his family because you didn't like them. If 
you're actually not taking part in the drug issue, which he dislikes, 
then he should be satisfied; since he is your boyfriend, he should trust 
you. A relationship cannot stand without trust...or at least a 
successful one anyway.
I cannot supply a solution, because everyone makes their own decisions 
in life...which means, don't let him make yours for you. 
Well, I hope that all works out...
***PLUR*** Luv Skyebaby


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 03:19:01 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:17:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: SLiNKy Dee <dynamic@interlog.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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-->Well...I admit it...I am a reformed Piscean.  My B-day is Feb.19 (but
my parents lied to me and I've been celebrating on Feb.20 for 18 years,
and will continue to do so still; due to some twisted sense of tradition)
and my chart says I'm actually Aquarius and not Pisces.  I dunno, I guess
I'm both...whatever; where's that damned portapotty?

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 03:21:38 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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cc: NINJARAVER <NINJARAVER@aol.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: lightseed
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-->Where the hell is this thing being held?  I can't get to the vendor
before they close (7|45) tonight and he said he will give the unsold tix
back to be sold at the door. HELP!!! I wanna go, I wanna go.

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 03:27:14 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Subject: Re: cozy ~ DJ Trance
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Michael Standish wrote:

> At 4:20 PM -0800 1/23/98, Minh Q. Le wrote:
> >city.  The club scene there is crap...what's the deal of that whole
> >membership deal and only other members can get you in shit?
> 
> Oh, you mean like Friends and Family?
> 
> Sir Ulrich Knight of the Turntables
> 
-->Yeah, exactly...those damn fascists ;)  Well, I understand F&F's want
for quality control, and I've usually been able to get a ticket when I
wanted to (so the situation isn't hopeless).  But that's just one outfit's
policies; there are always other options to choose from.  However, it's
ridiculous when the whole scene is like that and the main purpose, really
(IMO), is to keep out all the tourists--no matter how cool they are; just
plain xenophobia.

:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 03:33:40 1998
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From: "Bbong" <Bbong@goplay.com>
To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>, Haze <haze@netgate.net>
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I herd from a butterfly that the location is somewhere off of mission st... Does that help?

-- Billabong
------------------------------------------------------
| Go Play with GoPlay Email!
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000004 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 06:23:52 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:35:23 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Has anyone ever heard of Mad Hatters Blotter Acid. Is it good? Does it
suck? Does it give you that rat-dying (strict-9)feeling?
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 06:41:32 1998
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From: "Vespa Raver" <vespa_raver@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, Wyvern47@aol.com
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>the dood at solid grooves told me that the import is jus the east/west 
side
>thingie put together.  is that true?  see y'all @  lightseed. =)
>
>wuvs,
>-=wyv=-
>-Long
>

Yup.  It's just both of them put together in a double disk cd with 
cooler packaging for about $30.
Love,
VespaRaver

============================================
********************************************
 "Now I wasn't looking for heaven or hell,
 just someone to listen to stories I tell."
********************************************
============================================



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 08:12:21 1998
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Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.

I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
permanently eing.

Love,
Paul

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 08:14:52 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:12:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
cc: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces? 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9801241200.A4807-0100000@netcom11>
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3/3 is where i be! happy birthday to you and me!
lara:)

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Noah Apodaca wrote:

> 
> 
> Me me me!!  100% Pisces!! 2/25 baybee!!  Same b-day at George Harrison! 
> and socal superstar DJ JBondy!  :)
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, jeremy bispo wrote:
> 
> > 
> > hello some of u know me!! some of u don't!! but my
> > b-day party is comin up...March 6th....yep thats
> > right i'm a pisces...ARE there any other PISCES out
> > there??? 
> > just curious cuz we all know the scorpios got there
> > time on here.. so why shouldnt we??love jeremy
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ===
> > 
> > ~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 08:22:37 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:20:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
In-Reply-To: <34CAF69C.80C0C3F6@geocities.com>
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Paull,
in all due respect
maybe this is a sign (more like a brick smashing into your head)
suggesting that you reevaluate your drug usage.
and your friends too.
drugs aren't supposed to last forever like that, and as boomerang said,
you only have one brain.
ever think of THAT?
xo
lara

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> 
> I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> permanently eing.
> 
> Love,
> Paul
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 08:33:10 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:31:00 -0800
From: DJ Nick <nicholas@sirius.com>
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Thanks for all of your postive responses to
this idea. The next step is a domain name for
our site:

www.something.org/

I'll collect all these names and post them on our
server space in a form so we can vote for
one name.

Thanks for your time,
N


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 08:34:53 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:46:27 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Yes. I definetly have decided to cut way back. It was one of my new
years resolutions to take long breaks between drug usage. Everything
except weed. Cause weed's not a drug it's medecine.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

lara at vibe.org wrote:
> 
> Paull,
> in all due respect
> maybe this is a sign (more like a brick smashing into your head)
> suggesting that you reevaluate your drug usage.
> and your friends too.
> drugs aren't supposed to last forever like that, and as boomerang said,
> you only have one brain.
> ever think of THAT?
> xo
> lara
> 
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> > Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> > are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> >
> > I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> > produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> > Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> > too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> > includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> > already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> > a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> > Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> > other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> > permanently eing.
> >
> > Love,
> > Paul
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 09:52:11 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:54:20 -0800
From: Bitterati <hernancz@sirius.com>
Organization: BM may burn without me
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> Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> other permanent effect from any drug? 

 I have been clean and sober for 12 years now and I still see 
trails,"walls breathing", rats(always out of the corner of my eye). I 
got ripped off on the spiders though. I would like some spiders to break 
up the monotony.

 It can be depressing if you dont learn to enjoy it. Fortunately they 
only come when I am not drinking water, eating or havent slept.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 09:54:34 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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What do you mean spiders?
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Bitterati wrote:
> 
> > Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> > other permanent effect from any drug?
> 
>  I have been clean and sober for 12 years now and I still see
> trails,"walls breathing", rats(always out of the corner of my eye). I
> got ripped off on the spiders though. I would like some spiders to break
> up the monotony.
> 
>  It can be depressing if you dont learn to enjoy it. Fortunately they
> only come when I am not drinking water, eating or havent slept.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 10:06:20 1998
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I haven't tripped in 3 yrs but every so often I get this wierd feeling of
light headedness and my vision goes a little off. Colors are mostly ok
sometimes just alittle off. I used to be able to go on fast rides no prob
but after smokin and trippin all the time back then I get dizzy and
sometimes I feel real wierd after coming off those rides. I'm physically
ok so my guess is that the acid did it.

Mostly OK if ya got a phat beat goin on and tha buttee's a shakin'

MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 10:21:48 1998
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From: Bitterati <hernancz@sirius.com>
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Spiders are more of an Alcohol/ Acid artifact. I am guessing but I think 
they are the same thing as the "rats" just up in the middle of your 
vision.

I have watched those rats closly and they are really dark smudges moving 
fast on the outside of your pereperal vision.

Anyway trust me when I say this stuff tapers off big time. I get 
residual effects once every ten months to eighteen monthes and usually 
when I am not treating my body right.

Allow me one lecture(one?) here.

Enjoy the visuals. Relax. It is a free 'light show'. Dont use it as 
evidence to doubt your sanity. it happens to a lot of people.  99.9% of 
the time they are not caused by brain damage. The chemicals that cause 
this are not sitting in your brain. They are more likely than not in 
some fatty tissue until that tissue gets burned off or your liver or 
elsewhere.

Unless you been expirimenting with P.C.P. Then disregard all the above 
info and go see a doctor.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 10:47:03 1998
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"Cause weed's not a drug it's medecine." This is not true....weed is not a
drug nor is it a medicine...it is an herb that effects us in one way or
another...sometimes good sometimes bad...that's all i have to say...<3*MushyB!


In a message dated 98-01-25 03:35:17 EST, goodvibe@geocities.com writes:

<< Yes. I definetly have decided to cut way back. It was one of my new
 years resolutions to take long breaks between drug usage. Everything
 except weed. Cause weed's not a drug it's medecine.
 Love,
 Paul*E*Wog >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 15:59:58 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:02:50 -0800
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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At 12:23 AM -0800 1/25/98, Paul Hayden wrote:
>Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
>Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
>are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
>
>I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
>produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
>Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
>too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
>includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
>already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
>a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
>Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
>other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
>permanently eing.
>
>Love,
>Paul

There is a name for this medical condition.  You should see a doctor, stop
the use of hallucinogens, and take care of yourself.

You can't just cut back, you have to stop.  Now go and see a doctor and get
it together.

Peace,
john

P.S.  Drugs can fuck you up even if you moderate.  There are some things
you can;t do forever.  For me my weed days, I feel, are coming to an end as
my body has developed an ever increasing allergic reaction to it.  Damn, I
guess I'll have to mediatate or do something else.  But weed is on its way
out for me.

food for thought.

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 16:09:13 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:12:26 -0800
To: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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At 1:05 AM -0800 1/24/98, jeremy bispo wrote:
>hello some of u know me!! some of u don't!! but my
>b-day party is comin up...March 6th....yep thats
>right i'm a pisces...ARE there any other PISCES out
>there???
>just curious cuz we all know the scorpios got there
>time on here.. so why shouldnt we??love jeremy
>
>
>
>===
>
>~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~

I wanted to do something last year so I have a list of all the piceans on
the list.

I'm a pisces, Mar. 17.  we are the end of the zodiac, we really are
psychic, and we really are the dreamers.  Einstein and Michealangelo and
Dr. Seuss, Jack Kerouac, Handel,  Chopin, Steinbeck, and the first
President (George Washinton), are in our ranks.  We are night people,
dramatic, the most imaginative.  We have a fondness for intoxication.

we are the dreamers.  Did I mention Alexander Graham Bell?  He's a fish too.

There used to be a pisces party put together by Buck (can you imagine all
that pisces energy in one place?  the most hedonistic we are,
firghtening...;) ).  I'll be seeing him today (Super Bowl) and will ask him
about the possibility of bringing that beat back.


I'm the lucky one, I got a Pisces girlfriend.  She's the bomb (Hey Megan!)!


:),
John

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 17:14:45 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:12:05 EST
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In a message dated 1/24/98, Paul wrote:

<<Has anyone ever heard of Mad Hatters Blotter Acid. Is it good? Does it
suck? Does it give you that rat-dying (strict-9)feeling?>>

Paul,
	The whole myth about acid being contaminated with strychnine...it's not even
*possible* ......It's like this: the quantities of lsd needed to produce a
psychedelic effect are *so* minute, it can fit on blotter paper.  _That's_ how
little a dose you need.  Strychnine, on the other hand, must be present in
*much* higher amounts (comparatively speaking) to produce any toxic effects,
and therefore wouldn't be able to fit on a little square. So....any blotter
you get is either the Real Thang, or it's bunk.  Simple as that. Nothing else
could fit on the paper (yet remain invisible to the eye) and even come *close*
to being toxic!

take care sweetie,
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 17:17:28 1998
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Message-ID: <436f05fe.34cb72f1@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:14:23 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Permanent Trails
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In a message dated 1/25/98, Paul wrote:

<<Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
permanently eing.>>

Neurotoxicity anyone?? Do I have any bids for neurotoxicity???


natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 17:22:18 1998
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In a message dated 1/25/98, you wrote:

<<I have watched those rats closly and they are really dark smudges moving 
fast on the outside of your pereperal vision.

Anyway trust me when I say this stuff tapers off big time. I get 
residual effects once every ten months to eighteen monthes and usually 
when I am not treating my body right.>>

You know, if this happens frequently, it could be either "floaters" in your
visual field, or little blood clots resulting from microhemorrhages in your
eye or the surrounding capillaries  (worst-case scenario)   
I'd keep an eye on  (LOL ok bad joke) this condition, cuz if it happens often,
it could be a sign of impending visual disturbances or damage....(floaters
usually appear with AGE)

Just some ideas...=)
Geez, I don't know what's got into me this morning!!  =D =D

luv n hugs 
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 18:05:57 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re:  Permanent Trails
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you must be taking neruopsych or something this
semester.

I would love to find a book that is not reader's
digest but not at the esoteric scientific journal
level on just how drugs function.  How they are taken
into body how they affect the brain, how they are
broken down, how they damage the brain, what makes a
bad trip...you get the picture.  I mean I got a
degree in biology and I still don't know how alcohol
affects the brAain(LOL if you must).

One cool book that I got is Chocolate to Morphine it
has a general overview of most of the groups of drugs
out there and attempts to give an unbiased view of
positive/negative effects of drugs and testomonials
and history of the drugs.

of course right now just gimme caffeine.
pjf



---Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com> wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 1/25/98, you wrote:
> 
> <<I have watched those rats closly and they are
really dark smudges moving 
> fast on the outside of your pereperal vision.
> 
> Anyway trust me when I say this stuff tapers off
big time. I get 
> residual effects once every ten months to eighteen
monthes and usually 
> when I am not treating my body right.>>
> 
> You know, if this happens frequently, it could be
either "floaters" in your
> visual field, or little blood clots resulting from
microhemorrhages in your
> eye or the surrounding capillaries  (worst-case
scenario)   
> I'd keep an eye on  (LOL ok bad joke) this
condition, cuz if it happens often,
> it could be a sign of impending visual disturbances
or damage....(floaters
> usually appear with AGE)
> 
> Just some ideas...=)
> Geez, I don't know what's got into me this
morning!!  =D =D
> 
> luv n hugs 
> natasha
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 18:27:23 1998
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No offense, but these words are not quite the words you would have like to
hear in such a position. If you believe otherwise, I opologize.

If you are at all spiritually minded, you know that answers lie within.
Paul must have a deep underlying facination to take hallucinogens, a
desire for the fruit hanging on the Tree of Knowledge. Or perhaps his
reasons are different. 

If you have taken such chemicals because you wanted to, and you felt like
you would benefit from it, and now you're experiencing this, I suggest you
take a step back, re-evaluate your actions (based on what you've put into
your search, what you've gotten out, and how changed your life has become
as a part of it... and think of what is more important for your well being
as a human being. You already know the answers, you just want us to
re-inforce them for you. But you're the one whose ultimately going to make
the decision, so don't worry about what we think, it's your decision. It's
your life. The more people realize that they should always do "What feels
right, in that funny, tickly, kinda way... right around my heart". If you
need support you can always find it in the ones who trully love you.

If you have taken such chemicals to escape, well, that's another story I
think. What exactly are you escaping from? "This"? Yeah, this. This is
what you make it. There are tons of things that you must focus on at the
same time, as well as constantly absorbing input. So how can you ever take
the time to focus on things, understand their meanings in your life, and
move one. The meaning can be anything, as long as it's positive. And
remember even the darkest thoughts have an apposing technicolo day dream
in store for you. Whatever hurts us makes us stronger. This is so true.
Try listening to some really Tech-Step jungle for an hour or two... and
then listen to LTJ Bukem. It's like being beat up really bad and then
washed, dryed, and massaged by 4 people for the rest of the day. :) You
just can't dwell too much on the dark aspects and channel your energy
towards the opposing force that you feel is there in the balance. Like if
I was worried about that I wasn't raised by my dad, and never really knew
him. I could sit and dwell on the fact that I've never really known him
and let that eat me up. But why?? Because everyone else had a dad? Because
that was just the way things go, you have a dad and a mom"? or is it
actually something different? Whatever it may be, I already knew it.
Just face the reality and use it to your benefit. It happened for some
reason, for something that is within you that others might lack. Because
the strength and support I didn't receive from your dad was given to me
by myself... and I didn't even realize it. Our strength comes from within,
 we must follow "this feeling" and make ourselves stronger. So
we can be smarter, more strategic, than our low level counterparts... so
we can accomplish the goals at hand and reach our peak in life...

What I'm basically trying to say/share with you is that you're powerful
and you can do anything. If you see that there chamiecals are effecting
you in ways you do not like you should reconsider their use. Moderate.
Take a moment to think of the last time you did them, and also the time
before that. Now think of whether or not you're comfortable with it. Is
this what you want to be doing "to yourself". Whaterver positive or
negative you have to realize that you chose to take the step and receive 
whatever
scars, strengths you received while on your journey. Now think of whether
or not you want to continue. Think of seriousness of the drug when it's
used incorrectly. See what happens to those who lose focus on the perpose
and go for the escape... the escape to no where... because when you enter
this realm unheartedly and afraid, weak, you will be taken over and
advantage of. Just as there is good, there is also bad. You have to be
strong and attract the good energy. You will only do this when you are in
it for a purpose, something that which you must attain to continue in this
Earth life. A better understanding of things, to allow you to continue
your good will and love of others.. because you will become smarter and
act more efficent then those low levelers. We are in the land of the
lost, where the insane are trully the sane. Seeing the injustices, the
wrongs, the lack of value in what trully matters (life), and the absudedly
that exists here. The time wasted, bad energy given for no reason at all,
etc etc. But as you grow you continue to learn to use all these things to
your benefit... the goodwill and love you must feel within you, that you
want the entire world to know. Because if you know, they know, and if they
don't, you must be one of the ones to tell them... because perhaps in time
through, through the 6 degress of seperation (everyone is supposed to be
aquainted through 6 humans or less...), this world will become more
harmonic.

Paul.. If you need a person to e-mail about this stuff, feel free.
Sometime the list is too close minded to thigs and doesn't want to see the
reality that exists. You're not the only person with a lot to say.. most
people don't feel strong enough to open themsevles up... to admit they are
weak... becauwe we're all weak... we just have to help one another and
realize that we are not alone... 

Have you ever tried writing? It really helps to get things out of paper.
Because as you write you're channeling your thoughts, and you not write
things down in the physical world to see, but you also re-analyze things.
You are your best teacher, doctor, friend... because you know yourself
best, and know what you want to hear.... just believe in your feelings,
and don't hide from them. Follow them. The *GOOD* feelings deep within,
that tell you things you sometimes don't want to hear.... but why are
these things sometimes what we don't want to hear anyways??? if you stop
and think about what you're thinking, it may not be that bad after all.
Make good of it, in some way, to counteract it.

These are all spiritual things... people know what love is, what good
moods are are... etc... it's all spiritual... energy.. the flow of
consciousness...

If you are still unsure what to do, what this all means (the visual
effects that are present) you should consider talking to someone in person
about this. Someone you know is comfortable with you coming to them for
help. Preferable someone you trust, someone whose possibly used such drugs
before... also, talk to more than one person. Make sure they're placing
focus on you when they're talking, make sure you feel they're telling the
truth. Also. If you're at all interested you should talk to an eye doctor
to see what long term effects could take place... and at one point your
eyes have been effected... at to wahat degree. I think it would help to
know the scientific theory as well as your own feelings on this one. You
should also try doing some research online about the effects of such drugs
to your vision. 

plur.. what does it mean? Peace, Love, Unity and Respect. Don't say it if
you don't mean it. . . because these words are golden. Words to live by...
say them when you live your life in this manner. Say them now and begin to
believe in them, and therefore live your life in this matter.

Byron

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:

> At 12:23 AM -0800 1/25/98, Paul Hayden wrote:
> >Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> >Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> >are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> >
> >I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> >produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> >Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> >too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> >includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> >already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> >a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> >Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> >other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> >permanently eing.
> >
> >Love,
> >Paul
> 
> There is a name for this medical condition.  You should see a doctor, stop
> the use of hallucinogens, and take care of yourself.
> 
> You can't just cut back, you have to stop.  Now go and see a doctor and get
> it together.
> 
> Peace,
> john
> 
> P.S.  Drugs can fuck you up even if you moderate.  There are some things
> you can;t do forever.  For me my weed days, I feel, are coming to an end as
> my body has developed an ever increasing allergic reaction to it.  Damn, I
> guess I'll have to mediatate or do something else.  But weed is on its way
> out for me.
> 
> food for thought.
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics
> 
> 
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey... ..  . 

(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
emails... byroni@ccnet.com
websurfin... http://www.ccnet.com/~byroni
plane of existence... spiritual deep house
name of my cat... UNIX! ;)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 18:30:44 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:30:21 -0500
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From: SLiNKy Dee <dynamic@interlog.com>
Subject: My Experiences in SF :)
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Hi all,

SLiNKyDee from Toronto here.  Allow me first to offer many thanks to those
who recommended places and parties to me - Lara, Scott Galloway, Michael
Minnich, dmarie, Ray Vonie, Sun Kim, and Sunshine Jones.  Your
recommendations were all great. :) =20

I'm posting a pared-down version of the story I wrote on my experiences in
your fine city.  If you wish to read it in its entirety, you may point your
browsers to:

http://www.interlog.com/~dynamic/Unprofessional/FunStuff/sanfrancisco.htm

My web page itself is not finished yet, the rave and spam-busting pages are
not there, but take a look around if you like.

Here is the rave-related part of my experiences in San Francisco. Peace all=
 :)


----

Friday

That night, I decided to check out 1015 Folsom, a popular club which,
according to reports, regularly attracts some of the best DJs on the
planet. I arrived at around 11:30pm, and was utterly astounded at the
atmosphere.=20

The first room was mainstream dance, with what looked like a mainstream
dance crowd. Not far from my expectations. What surprised me was, in the
very next room, Tony Humphries was playing pounding house. Downstairs was
hosting ambient drum&bass. So many different styles of music in one venue
was a foreign concept to me. In Toronto, if you want to hear mainstream
dance, you go to a mainstream dance club. If you want to hear hard house,
drum & bass, and so on, you go to an underground club or rave. This club
had both.=20

All of us in the large room had the pleasure and privilege of hearing Tony
Humphries utterly tear shit up. His tracks were hard, funky and energetic,
and his scratching was well-timed and precise. I always thought that
scratching just did not "go" with house, however he MADE it work ! There
was only one or two instances where I felt that it did not fit. He was also
a nutcase,
jumping around the DJ booth like a kangaroo. It was a sight to see. :) Tony
Humphries is an excellent DJ and a good entertainer to boot.=20

What amazed me the most was the incredible vibe. It was like a scene out of
a rave - hundreds of people dancing like crazy, throwing their hands in the
air and cheering for the DJ when he turned a trick or threw down a good
track. At one point, I heard scores of hands, clapping in time to the
music, totally synchronized. I was not in that club for 10 minutes, and
someone was already
talking to me, introducing himself to me, and me to his friend. (For the
life of me I cannot remember their names.) Another person shared his water
with me. Everyone appeared to be enjoying the music and in a seriously
funky groove. I felt comfortable starting conversations with people and
letting loose and dancing like crazy.=20

People of all different types were there. There were some people that were
obviously ravers or ex-ravers, wearing the baggy pants, necklaces and so
on. Others were dressed simply in normal everyday clothes (jeans, shirts
etc). Still others were dressed up nicely. I wore to the club what I had
worn to @Home - plain white blouse, jeans, and a light, black blazer
jacket, and did not feel one bit out of place.=20

One scene I did not like occurred near the front of the room. A few people
started dancing very well, and a circle formed around them. The security
guard came up with a flashlight, and told these people that they were not
allowed to circle dance. I personally saw no harm in circle-dancing, and I
never actually figured out why there was such a rule.=20


Saturday

All the rain, the clouds and gloom of the previous days vanished without a
trace, and Saturday morning greeted me with a sunshine so bright, not even
curtains could restrain it.=20

My first journey took me on a mission to find a bottle of cognac for my
parents. Being a non-drinker, I had no idea where to find such a
concoction. I asked one of the hotel staff, who said "There's a grocery
store down the street there=85" He must have noticed the incredulous look of
complete shock on my face when he asked "You don't live in California do
you ??" We both had a very good laugh about that. Apparently one can buy
alcohol at corner stores and grocery
stores in California. To a Canadian, where alcohol is strictly controlled
and sold almost primarily in government-influenced institutions, this was
quite a culture shock.=20

I called Steve, a friend with whom I had been speaking over the Internet.
He and I decided to go music shopping along Haight street. He still needed
an hour to prepare for the day, so I set out to BPM Records, which was a
15-minute walk from my hotel.=20

The store itself was small, however their selection was rich and diverse. I
was flipping through one of the bins, and could barely restrain myself from
uttering profanity when I saw the gem therein. "Brighter Days" by Cajmere
was a track I had been searching for, unsuccessfully, for approximately one
year. I was looking for the double 12", which was much more difficult to
find than the single. I had placed orders in Toronto record stores, asked
around, to no avail. This store, BPM, had not one, but TWO COPIES of this
double-12" masterpiece !=20

Now I was told that this jewel was $6.99, and selected both copies for
purchase. They were rung in at $12.99 apiece. $6.99 was the price for the
single. Even though I whined for them to cut a Canadian some slack, which
generated an amused response, the price was not negotiable. I broke down
and bought both copies, and still do not regret it !=20

After this, Steve and I headed towards the fabled Haight Street.=20

Haight street is touted as the central district for the hippie culture,
where relics of the past are displayed in vintage clothing stores, yet
right next door are stores which reflect the geneses of the society of the
future. Culture and style are complimented by an overlaying theme of
individuality and personal expression. There were numerous wall murals,
each depicting a different scene, many painted with the colours of the
rainbow, seemingly to depict tolerance and
acceptance of all types of people. One walks along this vibrant street in
awe at the variety and atmosphere, but cannot help noticing the scores and
scores of homeless people and those less fortunate, at almost every
storefront.=20

We visited Frequency 8 Records, where I purchased an incredibly funky
mixtape by DJ Brian. (Where is he from anyway ?) I was shocked to discover
that mixtapes were 15 American dollars. I pay about that much, or less, in
measly Canadian dollars up here. Tweekin' Records had an excellent
selection of 12", and I found a Kraftwerk LP and an original copy of Voodoo
Ray to add to my collection. The newly-opened Amoeba Music had a rich
collection of used
CDs, from which I selected one.=20

We stopped off at Steve's house on the way to Berkeley. His street was like
nothing I had ever seen - the median was completely lined with large, lush
palm trees. He laughed that these trees were actually grown in LA and
imported there. :) After checking email and playing with his most adorable
cat, we set out again. While preparing the car to leave, I saw that his key
ring had a
256k RAM chip - almost IDENTICAL to the one I carry on my own key ring ! It
must be a computer-geek thing. :)=20

We headed off to Berkeley, and on the way, passed through a very scary area
of town. I had originally thought that the more northerly area of Haight
was questionable, but Steve would not even stop the car to let me take a
picture of some scenery. After looking around at the sorts of people and
buildings around, I agreed completely.=20

Crossing the Bay Bridge was an exciting experience. As we were crossing, I
asked Steve "Where are the cars in the opposite direction ??" He replied,
"Upstairs." :) Amazing.=20

Berkeley seemed to be a very prominent University town. Almost all of the
people we saw on the streets were of our age group, and many were rowdy and
loud-spoken. We journeyed to Rasputin Records, where we both found a
sizeable stack of CDs. I picked out three from the used house/techno
section, and Steve left with a stack that looked about 8 or 10 high. We
also stopped in at a very expensive high-fashion store called Wicked, where
he bought a most funky pair of pants and another CD.=20

We went to a deli so that I may pick up a sandwich, because by this time we
were both starving.  I ordered a full sandwich, thinking that it would be
Kaiser-bun size. Boy was I wrong ! The server came out with a sandwich on a
bun about the size of my head ! How was I supposed to eat all of that ?!
This was something Andre the Giant would have trouble polishing off !=20

I brown-bagged the sandwich and fruit cup, and we crossed the street to a
vegetarian eatery. I noticed a strange item on the menu called "garlic
fries". I had never heard of these things before, yet they were highly
recommended by Steve. So I ordered the baked-not-fried concoction, and
found them to be very good. Being half-Italian myself, garlic is one of my
four food groups. This
has inspired me to make my own garlic-fry-like broiled potatoes at home.=20

I was considering attending the "Planet Rock" rave that was being held that
night. I investigated the line-up, and found perhaps a few DJs that I may
have liked to see. Upon investigation of the most ridiculous price I have
ever seen for an event, I decided not to go. I wonder where the HELL a
company gets off charging $30 AMERICAN for a one-night party !? The most I
have ever paid for a rave, except for New Year's Eve, was $25 Canadian, and
those events were
chosen with care. I did not think it was worth it to spend $30 American for
a party that I may or may not enjoy. I spent that evening on my laptop, and
catching up on sleep, as I had only slept 6 hours a night since I had
arrived.=20


Sunday

[Touristy stuff snipped]

At another tourist shop, I found an item I had been looking for for ages -
a rainbow-coloured beanie hat, fully equipped with a fully functioning,
glow-in-the-dark propeller ! This was a stellar find, something I was very
willing to pay top dollar for. I don=92t know of any stores in Toronto where
I could have found such an item.=20

[This scene opens after an all-day shopping trip to Union Square]

After resting my tired body for approximately 30 seconds, I hopped a cab to
Open Mind Music.  For anyone who is looking for old/used records, this
place is IT ! Never in my life have I seen such an extensive collection of
my favourite labels (Trax, DJ International, Dance Mania, etc.) in one
place. I spent well over an hour in there, stayed right until close, then
realized I had missed
an entire bin of stuff.  Perfect excuse to go back again sometime. :)

The most incredible find was none other than an original, Radikal Records
pressing of O FORTUNA !!! This extremely rare gem, my second copy, was
priced at a measly $6. I would have paid $50 for it, and the person at the
store said she had seen it in New York for $100 ! I also found some rare
12" from as far back as 1985-1987. An altogether incredible store.=20

That night I checked out the Spundae party. After confusing the taxi driver
with the messed-up directions on the back of the flyer (11th and 6th do not
cross !), I arrived. Admission was free before 10:30, which was a great
deal in my opinion. My attire for the night consisted of a multi-coloured
t-shirt, running shoes with coil-shaped shoelaces, and my prized beanie hat.=
=20

Yet again, I was pleasantly surprised at the friendliness and openness of
the crowd. No less than 10 people made comments about the hat, or asked to
spin the propeller. I met three cool people, Mark, Sara and Roosevelt (I
think that's right, I stink for names !), and talked to quite a few more
people that night. It was amazing to me that my attire was so different
from Friday night=92s, yet
both nights, I felt that I completely fit in.=20

The small room, although lacking in the sound department, was rocking the
entire night. Funky, energetic house was pounding for the entire time I was
there. The dance space was minimal, and towards midnight it became somewhat
crowded, but this was alleviated when the large room was opened.=20

The first DJ in the large room played slow breaks and slow house, so I
remained in the small room and whooped it up for another couple of hours.
Later I ventured into the large room, and was greeted with a very energetic
and enthusiastic crowd. The DJ featured was none other than the great
Donald Glaude from Seattle.=20

This was a DJ who very obviously loved his music, and fed incredible energy
to and from the crowd. He was jumping, dancing, and yelling his lungs out
at times during his funky, and sometimes furious set. At one time, he cut
out the sound entirely for one bar and screamed "NOW YOU FEEL THE FUNK !",
and slammed the music back in right on time. The crowd went absolutely
nuts, cheering, yelling, and throwing their hands in the air. A few other
times, he cut out the sound and simply yelled "AIEYIEYIEYIEYIEYIEYIEYIE
!!!!!!!", and cut the sound back
in at the beginning of the next bar. He kept the crowd yelling and
boogeying for his entire (2-hour+ ?) set.=20

After being completely assaulted with this incredible music and DJ, I was
ready to simply fall over from exhaustion. It was close to 4am, and I
needed to be at the airport at 11am. So I grabbed a cab back to the hotel
and literally fell into bed.=20


Monday

After utilizing packing methods similar to those used in the Japanese
subway system, I checked out of the hotel and went outside. I was dressed
in ripped jeans, and hung my prized beanie hat from the strap on my duffel
bag, so as not to become crushed by other items. I indicated to the hotel
employee that I needed a cab. He turned to someone beside him and asked
"Can you take her ?", to which he responded positively. The hotel employee
said "He's a limo, but he's regular fare." I figured yeah, whatever,
airport limo is usually a Lincoln Town Car. Boy was I wrong - I turned the
corner to find a big, huge, long, stretched LIMOUSINE ! The driver
reiterated that he charged regular fare, so I figured, why not !?=20

I climbed into the back of this monstrous car, and seated myself on the
couch. I found a cooler full of beer and Coke, and asked the driver if I
could have one. Of course I could ! I cracked open a Coke (more caffeine
!), picked up the remote control, and began flipping channels on the in-car
TV !! We proceeded to the airport, me drinking Coke and watching Young and
the Restless.=20

Imagine this scene: A huge, stretched limousine arrives at the terminal in
the airport. Out steps me, in ripped jeans, with a beanie hat attached to
my duffel bag !! People were just STARING !!! :) It was priceless.=20

Taking off from the airport, I felt my eyes mist slightly as I left this
friendly, vibrant city. This short trip opened my eyes to a society
different from my own in many ways, but similar in some ways as well. San
Francisco is an incredible city, with a friendly and laid-back atmosphere,
and a welcoming and accepting attitude. I am grateful that I was given the
opportunity to visit, and hope that someday soon I will be so fortunate as
to return.




                .-.     .-.     .-.
 |||||/\/\/\/\ /    Slinky Dee /   \ /\/\/\|||||
              '     `-'     `-' =20
formerly SLiNKy GaL	     CASHP #26-96-I, FOA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 18:51:36 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:51:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>, SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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 Are you using it for medicine??..if you're not than it *is* a drug!




On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Yes. I definetly have decided to cut way back. It was one of my new
> years resolutions to take long breaks between drug usage. Everything
> except weed. Cause weed's not a drug it's medecine.
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
> 
> lara at vibe.org wrote:
> > 
> > Paull,
> > in all due respect
> > maybe this is a sign (more like a brick smashing into your head)
> > suggesting that you reevaluate your drug usage.
> > and your friends too.
> > drugs aren't supposed to last forever like that, and as boomerang said,
> > you only have one brain.
> > ever think of THAT?
> > xo
> > lara
> > 
> > On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > 
> > > Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> > > Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> > > are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> > >
> > > I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> > > produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> > > Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> > > too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> > > includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> > > already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> > > a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> > > Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> > > other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> > > permanently eing.
> > >
> > > Love,
> > > Paul
> > >
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 19:38:00 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:35:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
cc: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>, SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
In-Reply-To: <v03102800b0f111da1e36@[209.133.7.194]>
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Allergic reaction to weed?
That's why I quit doing shrooms.. Everytime I did them, I'd end up in a
REALLY HOT party wearing my goosefeatherdown jacket, freezing, sweating
balls, with a really delirious state. After I did that 2 times, I realized
I was prolly allergic to them, which wasn't the case when I first ever ate
shrooms.
~~ be careful with drug usage, John's right, even moderation can fuck your
mind up pretty good.
xo
lara

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:

> At 12:23 AM -0800 1/25/98, Paul Hayden wrote:
> >Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> >Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> >are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> >
> >I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> >produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> >Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> >too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> >includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> >already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> >a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> >Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> >other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> >permanently eing.
> >
> >Love,
> >Paul
> 
> There is a name for this medical condition.  You should see a doctor, stop
> the use of hallucinogens, and take care of yourself.
> 
> You can't just cut back, you have to stop.  Now go and see a doctor and get
> it together.
> 
> Peace,
> john
> 
> P.S.  Drugs can fuck you up even if you moderate.  There are some things
> you can;t do forever.  For me my weed days, I feel, are coming to an end as
> my body has developed an ever increasing allergic reaction to it.  Damn, I
> guess I'll have to mediatate or do something else.  But weed is on its way
> out for me.
> 
> food for thought.
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 19:43:56 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:47:07 -0800
To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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At 10:27 AM -0800 1/25/98, *byroni* wrote:
>No offense, but these words are not quite the words you would have like to
>hear in such a position. If you believe otherwise, I opologize.
<snip>

Huh?  He is seeing trailer all the time and he has the pwer to make them go
away?  Yes, by seeing a doctor.

He should seek help, since what he is seeing can be permanent, and
indicates some type of reaction to the drugs or something else.  Beleive in
yourself, and go and see a doctor.

Out,
John
>
>Byron
>
>On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:
>
>> At 12:23 AM -0800 1/25/98, Paul Hayden wrote:
>> >Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
>> >Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
>> >are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
>> >
>> >I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
>> >produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
>> >Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
>> >too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
>> >includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
>> >already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
>> >a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
>> >Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
>> >other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
>> >permanently eing.
>> >
>> >Love,
>> >Paul
>>
>> There is a name for this medical condition.  You should see a doctor, stop
>> the use of hallucinogens, and take care of yourself.
>>
>> You can't just cut back, you have to stop.  Now go and see a doctor and get
>> it together.
>>
>> Peace,
>> john
>>
>> P.S.  Drugs can fuck you up even if you moderate.  There are some things
>> you can;t do forever.  For me my weed days, I feel, are coming to an end as
>> my body has developed an ever increasing allergic reaction to it.  Damn, I
>> guess I'll have to mediatate or do something else.  But weed is on its way
>> out for me.
>>
>> food for thought.
>>
>> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
>> Narcotics
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>another deep space transmission from... ..  .
>or...
>another deep transmission from spacey... ..  .
>
>(byroni)
>TheSPACEcowboy
>
>"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>			-me
>,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
>emails... byroni@ccnet.com
>websurfin... http://www.ccnet.com/~byroni
>plane of existence... spiritual deep house
>name of my cat... UNIX! ;)


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:34:28 -0800
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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Heres a couple of ideas for a fish dinner.

There is a pretty good thai resturant in berkeley that
has a reasonable amount of veggie selections for us
fish that dont consume that vile disease ridden flesh
of angry tourtured animals and their babies.
Plus the staff all wear purple.

Or there is vechas here in san francisco which has the best
vegi satay ive ever had.

My friend has access to a hotel room and assorted goodies that 
we are considering for a little party 

I can help put this together but i must warn you up front
that i did have an affair and i did inhale and i did lie about both.
It takes a village to satisfy some of us.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

ps...there is an eclipse on friday the 13th in march at 4:20,
thats my b-day also. And mars just moved into pisces today.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 20:41:09 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:38:42 -0800
Subject: Re: **SF Vinyl/CD Co-op**
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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www.rekidZ.com...?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 20:49:05 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Paul Hayden" <goodvibe@geocities.com>, "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:33:49 -0800
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An interesting thing to note is the possibility that rather than physical
damage, maybe it's just that you have altered the way you see the world...
I mean, if you did/do chemical enhancements frequently, it could just be
that
you are used to seeing things that way....who knows.

It's fully possible to hallucinate without ingesting any sort of chemical.
For
example, if you stare at the sun or a bright light, and look at something
else,
you will see that flashing dot of light for a few moments. Maybe this is
what you are referring to with the "trails". I mean, to some extent this is
normal...I guess it depends how often + strong these "trails" are......

On the other hand, this sounds a bit disturbing to me...I almost never
do the chem-thing anymore, but I did semi-often in the past, and I haven't
really noticed "trails" or anything else like that! (then again I  haven't
tried a lot of the things you mentioned)

My suggestion is to try and go the sober route for a trial period (a week?
a month?) and see if these "trails" disappear....if they do, it is probably
just
due to what you are munching on now.....

I don't really understand how it could be physically possibly to be
"permanently e'ing"....from my understanding it was gone from your body
within 48 hours. I suppose you could get used to the mental state of it and
get used to reacting
to any situation in that way....

<blatant self promotion> I recommend the book Stoned Free, Ways to get High
without drugs, which we have at Raverbooks...it has some good
suggestions!</blatant self promotion>

I think I'd need more details in order to give advice - i mean, how long do
you
have to stare at things before they "breathe"? Do you just glance at them
or does it take like 5 minutes? Because if you stare at anything for a long
enough time (including sober people who have never ingested drugs) it
starts to shift a bit due to your eyes getting tired....

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
         what does it mean when someone says
            "my computer went down on me"?
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>


>I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
>produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
>Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
>too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
>includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
>already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
>a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
>Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
>other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
>permanently eing.
>
>Love,
>Paul


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 21:11:53 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:07:17 -0800
To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
From: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980125143419.26924A-100000@linux.announce.co
 m>
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>> There is a name for this medical condition.  You should see a doctor, stop
>> the use of hallucinogens, and take care of yourself.
>> 
>> You can't just cut back, you have to stop.  Now go and see a doctor and get
>> it together.
>> 
>> Peace,
>> john


Your mileage may vary.  I did my first acid in 1971 when I was 14. I
continued to trip throughout the 70's, seeing trails was to me a pleasant
by-product of all of this.  I remember taking physics in high school and
learning the mathematics around acceleration, I was tripping one day and
right before my eyes I could see this complete graphic display for
increased velocity per second as this car accelerated in front of me. If
you take a lot of psychedelics expect to see trails for a while, it goes
with the territory. During the 80's I didn't take them that much and the
phenomena calmed down,
In the 90's I started up a gain (wonder why :) but the dosages that i took
were not nearly as much as in the 60's. Also bear in mind that your brain
will adapt over time so you won't see trails as pronounced as time goes on.

Psychedelics alter your abilities at perceiving reality PERMANENTLY! It is
one of the great things about them (for some of us), It's what Jimi sang
about in the 60's when he asked the question "Are you experienced?" For
some people this is a scary though and if you find this to be so, then you
should not do them.

As far as I'm concerned real LSD is a lot safer from a physiological
standpoint then just about any recreational drug, it doesn't affect your
lungs, it's LD50 is so high that you couldn't afford it :) and it doesn't
alter you body much , except for dilated pupils and increased respiration
do the increased stimulus.  Compared to MDMA, Cocain, tobacco, alcohol and
even Pot it is pretty benign.  As far as bad trips, well set and setting
are _extremely_ important.
Dosage is also a factor, it is extremely rare that someone will have a bad
trip on 100 micrograms (one blotter) now when you done a "puddle" of liquid
or a "sheet" of blotter that's another story. Make sure your in a good
mood, feel good about yourself and who you are with and where you are.  If
you gotta do this, it's better to do it at a place where there isn't the
potential for the police to bust in and frighten you, or force you to drive
away :)
It's also a good idea to have at least one "baseline" friend around who can
handle an emergency situation of keep you from doing something stupid.

I don't recommend that people take their first psychedelic excursions at
parties, there are a lot of subtleties that will be missed and there is a
lot that you need to learn about yourself on these drugs.  LSD WILL MAKE
YOU INTROSPECTIVE!!! IF YOU DON't LIKE THE PERSON YOU ARE IT'S NOT A GOOD
IDEA TO TAKE LSD.


Get real information about these drugs not myths and scare stories


				http://www.island.org

Especially the books Pihkal by Alex and Ann Shulgin
			and The Psychedelic Encycopedia by Peter Stafford


Here is another pretty useful link on LSD including a link to the book
written by the creator Albert Hoffman...

 http://www.fi.muni.cz/~toms/Psychedelia/lsd.html


Mushrooms for me are far more formidable drugs for the following reasons:

	1) The presence of alkaloids and other substances that have physiological
	   effects.
	2) Possibility of allergic reaction to the various organic compounds

	3) Concentration of the psychoactive components vary from plant to plant
	   season to season, year to year. It is easy to take too much.

In my opinion the chances of having a "bad trip" on mushrooms is far more
likely due to the above.  

For a spiritual perspective I also believe that the "mushroom god" is far
more unforgiving and alien to humans.  If he feels that you need to see
something, he won't hold back showing it to you.


For me, I've been allergic to weed for years, It doesn't stop me from
smoking it occasionally, but it is not a drug of choice for me. But then
I'm just an old hippie-raver and I'm getting to old to really handle my
drugs :)


								G
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 22:01:21 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:59:51 -0800
From: DJ Nick <nicholas@sirius.com>
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   Thanks for everyone's response and
cooperation. I just wanted to give people
a weeks notice to add their input for the
sf record/cd co-op domain name, so we
can vote on it soon:

www.????????.org

I'll post the form a week from today to
collect the votes. Thanks again to all
of you who have sent in your suggestions.

N



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 22:23:04 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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i got those years ago when i was still doing acid.  it wasn't that
bad, really, but i was sorta glad when they went away (maybe after 6
months of being clean?).  the thing about hallucinogenics is that they
can fuck up your brain permanently.  i mean, we all know some
burnouts, right?  that friend's mom that did too much acid in the
sixties, and never quite came back?  or the high school buddy that
went a little too far and dropped out of school, never to return?

on one hand, i wouldn't freak about getting the occasional flashback,
it happens.  but on the other hand, it's a probably a pretty good sign
that it's time to lay off the e and acid for a while (not to mention
the elephantflips)...

-messiah


---Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com> wrote:
>
> Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive
people
> are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> 
> I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP,
DXM,
> Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes
or
> a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who
are
> permanently eing.
> 
> Love,
> Paul
> 
 




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 22:28:26 1998
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From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: lightseed review ...
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:18:14 -0800
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Lightseed turned out to be nicer than i expected ... i am not a major fan of
trance but as i didnt want to do the massive ground zero and everybody else
seemed to be going to lightseed i decided to join up ...

i first picked up Haze and junior (Nico) ... our first stop was at Chilli's in
santa clara where a bunch of south bay boys and girls met up for a pre-party
dinner ... lots of good food, good vibes and a cool waiter who decided that he
had to experience the underground after seeing us ... :) ... thanks for
showing up all of you !!!

after missing our meeting with rick and andrew (explanation at the end) we
picked up our fourth crew member and headed over to the map point and then to
the location .. i have a feeling that the directions could have been a little
bit simpler but we got there so I'm not complaining ...

we get to the location and the smell in the area almost brought out the philly
cheese steak that haze had for dinner ... fortunately they let us in before
that happened ... the evening started slowly but the vibe and the music got
better as the night went on ... i am not much of a trance critic but the last
DJ that was spinning on the third floor in the early morning tore it up ...

the first floor was fairly disappointing as the music was not loud enough and
it was very damn hot in there ... also the DJs seemed to be having problems
with the sound equipment ... the music on the third floor was also not loud
enough for me unless i was standing right in front of the speakers ... the
visuals on the third floor were solid and totally cool ... the third floor was
probably the place to be last night although i spent a lot of time on the
first floor as it gave me a clubby feeling and I am a club kid at heart :)

we left at around 6:30am to be greeted by the now usual SFPD parking ticket
(what would i do if i didnt get one of these every time i park in SF ????) ...
i guess i'm just a victim of the parking ticket quota thing you guys got going
...

the party was supposed to end at 6am (was it ???) and the DJ had already
started packing his stuff but some dude dropped by and next thing i know the
DJ put his headphones back on and he was going at it again ... its always nice
when promoters decide to keep it going for a little longer just cause they can
...

I met a bunch of really cool SFRavers last night ... mostly a bunch of south
bay dudes and dudettes who showed up at the pre-party dinner ...

Major respect to Billabong, Rick, Andrew, Nico, Amber (and her friend with the
green hair whose name i dont remember - deepfog ???) and the other dude who
headed to the party with BBong (sorry i dont remember your name either) ...
you guys just rock for showing up to have dinner with us

At the party we met Megan Czefir and Vlad ... I also bought this necklace and
the lady who sold it to me later gave me a smiley sticker in exchange for a
hug :) ... she was total sweetness but i forgot to ask her name ... Also a
candy raverette (hey i just made a new word) by the name of natalie (i think)
asked me whether she knew me from another party and she thought my name was
Marco or something ... sorry i kind of blew you off girl but i am not much of
a conversation person at 6am ... maybe we can chat next time ... :)

Last but not least mad props to the always ready to party, hand out stuff and
meet more SFRavers Haze and her friend greg who just might be converted to
raver from industrial ...

Thank you all for making my evening ...

Rick and Andrew dudes I am totally sorry about not meeting up on 7th ...we
waited for you for like about 25 minutes and we decided to take off as we were
late to pick up somebody else ... we actually came by 7th again at around
10:50 but we still didnt find you ... i hope you made it to the party on your
own but i didnt see you there so ... :(

looking forward to the next party ...

Rudi

The content of this message | mailto:rudir@aimnet.com
in no way reflects the      | mailto:rrughoon@mipos3.intel.com
opinion of my employer :)   | http://www.aimnet.com/~rudir/
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 23:39:07 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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I dunno about that. Explain to me why I don't got that rat dying feeling
with microdots or gels? I believe the fact that there is no speed in
blotters. There are two types of acid. LSD-25 and ALD-50 LSD-25 is
naturaly speedy and the othere which is more lax and visual and usually
found in gels which is why they give a more gentle comedown.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Natasha426 wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 1/24/98, Paul wrote:
> 
> <<Has anyone ever heard of Mad Hatters Blotter Acid. Is it good? Does it
> suck? Does it give you that rat-dying (strict-9)feeling?>>
> 
> Paul,
>         The whole myth about acid being contaminated with strychnine...it's not even
> *possible* ......It's like this: the quantities of lsd needed to produce a
> psychedelic effect are *so* minute, it can fit on blotter paper.  _That's_ how
> little a dose you need.  Strychnine, on the other hand, must be present in
> *much* higher amounts (comparatively speaking) to produce any toxic effects,
> and therefore wouldn't be able to fit on a little square. So....any blotter
> you get is either the Real Thang, or it's bunk.  Simple as that. Nothing else
> could fit on the paper (yet remain invisible to the eye) and even come *close*
> to being toxic!
> 
> take care sweetie,
> natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 23:46:06 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:51:51 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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I thought about those perma trails, and maybe they have been there all
along and i just never noticed them. Maybe it's the drugs that we take
that make us notice all the aspects of being sober and not to take it
for granted. I mean, if you had never done any drug, would you ever know
what a trail would really look like? Maybe everyone sees them and no one
realy notices them until they take drugs. I think sometimes it feels
good to be really high on something or various things and then sometimes
it feels real good to be sober on your own high.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

*byroni* wrote:
> 
> No offense, but these words are not quite the words you would have like to
> hear in such a position. If you believe otherwise, I opologize.
> 
> If you are at all spiritually minded, you know that answers lie within.
> Paul must have a deep underlying facination to take hallucinogens, a
> desire for the fruit hanging on the Tree of Knowledge. Or perhaps his
> reasons are different.
> 
> If you have taken such chemicals because you wanted to, and you felt like
> you would benefit from it, and now you're experiencing this, I suggest you
> take a step back, re-evaluate your actions (based on what you've put into
> your search, what you've gotten out, and how changed your life has become
> as a part of it... and think of what is more important for your well being
> as a human being. You already know the answers, you just want us to
> re-inforce them for you. But you're the one whose ultimately going to make
> the decision, so don't worry about what we think, it's your decision. It's
> your life. The more people realize that they should always do "What feels
> right, in that funny, tickly, kinda way... right around my heart". If you
> need support you can always find it in the ones who trully love you.
> 
> If you have taken such chemicals to escape, well, that's another story I
> think. What exactly are you escaping from? "This"? Yeah, this. This is
> what you make it. There are tons of things that you must focus on at the
> same time, as well as constantly absorbing input. So how can you ever take
> the time to focus on things, understand their meanings in your life, and
> move one. The meaning can be anything, as long as it's positive. And
> remember even the darkest thoughts have an apposing technicolo day dream
> in store for you. Whatever hurts us makes us stronger. This is so true.
> Try listening to some really Tech-Step jungle for an hour or two... and
> then listen to LTJ Bukem. It's like being beat up really bad and then
> washed, dryed, and massaged by 4 people for the rest of the day. :) You
> just can't dwell too much on the dark aspects and channel your energy
> towards the opposing force that you feel is there in the balance. Like if
> I was worried about that I wasn't raised by my dad, and never really knew
> him. I could sit and dwell on the fact that I've never really known him
> and let that eat me up. But why?? Because everyone else had a dad? Because
> that was just the way things go, you have a dad and a mom"? or is it
> actually something different? Whatever it may be, I already knew it.
> Just face the reality and use it to your benefit. It happened for some
> reason, for something that is within you that others might lack. Because
> the strength and support I didn't receive from your dad was given to me
> by myself... and I didn't even realize it. Our strength comes from within,
>  we must follow "this feeling" and make ourselves stronger. So
> we can be smarter, more strategic, than our low level counterparts... so
> we can accomplish the goals at hand and reach our peak in life...
> 
> What I'm basically trying to say/share with you is that you're powerful
> and you can do anything. If you see that there chamiecals are effecting
> you in ways you do not like you should reconsider their use. Moderate.
> Take a moment to think of the last time you did them, and also the time
> before that. Now think of whether or not you're comfortable with it. Is
> this what you want to be doing "to yourself". Whaterver positive or
> negative you have to realize that you chose to take the step and receive
> whatever
> scars, strengths you received while on your journey. Now think of whether
> or not you want to continue. Think of seriousness of the drug when it's
> used incorrectly. See what happens to those who lose focus on the perpose
> and go for the escape... the escape to no where... because when you enter
> this realm unheartedly and afraid, weak, you will be taken over and
> advantage of. Just as there is good, there is also bad. You have to be
> strong and attract the good energy. You will only do this when you are in
> it for a purpose, something that which you must attain to continue in this
> Earth life. A better understanding of things, to allow you to continue
> your good will and love of others.. because you will become smarter and
> act more efficent then those low levelers. We are in the land of the
> lost, where the insane are trully the sane. Seeing the injustices, the
> wrongs, the lack of value in what trully matters (life), and the absudedly
> that exists here. The time wasted, bad energy given for no reason at all,
> etc etc. But as you grow you continue to learn to use all these things to
> your benefit... the goodwill and love you must feel within you, that you
> want the entire world to know. Because if you know, they know, and if they
> don't, you must be one of the ones to tell them... because perhaps in time
> through, through the 6 degress of seperation (everyone is supposed to be
> aquainted through 6 humans or less...), this world will become more
> harmonic.
> 
> Paul.. If you need a person to e-mail about this stuff, feel free.
> Sometime the list is too close minded to thigs and doesn't want to see the
> reality that exists. You're not the only person with a lot to say.. most
> people don't feel strong enough to open themsevles up... to admit they are
> weak... becauwe we're all weak... we just have to help one another and
> realize that we are not alone...
> 
> Have you ever tried writing? It really helps to get things out of paper.
> Because as you write you're channeling your thoughts, and you not write
> things down in the physical world to see, but you also re-analyze things.
> You are your best teacher, doctor, friend... because you know yourself
> best, and know what you want to hear.... just believe in your feelings,
> and don't hide from them. Follow them. The *GOOD* feelings deep within,
> that tell you things you sometimes don't want to hear.... but why are
> these things sometimes what we don't want to hear anyways??? if you stop
> and think about what you're thinking, it may not be that bad after all.
> Make good of it, in some way, to counteract it.
> 
> These are all spiritual things... people know what love is, what good
> moods are are... etc... it's all spiritual... energy.. the flow of
> consciousness...
> 
> If you are still unsure what to do, what this all means (the visual
> effects that are present) you should consider talking to someone in person
> about this. Someone you know is comfortable with you coming to them for
> help. Preferable someone you trust, someone whose possibly used such drugs
> before... also, talk to more than one person. Make sure they're placing
> focus on you when they're talking, make sure you feel they're telling the
> truth. Also. If you're at all interested you should talk to an eye doctor
> to see what long term effects could take place... and at one point your
> eyes have been effected... at to wahat degree. I think it would help to
> know the scientific theory as well as your own feelings on this one. You
> should also try doing some research online about the effects of such drugs
> to your vision.
> 
> plur.. what does it mean? Peace, Love, Unity and Respect. Don't say it if
> you don't mean it. . . because these words are golden. Words to live by...
> say them when you live your life in this manner. Say them now and begin to
> believe in them, and therefore live your life in this matter.
> 
> Byron
> 
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:
> 
> > At 12:23 AM -0800 1/25/98, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > >Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> > >Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> > >are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> > >
> > >I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> > >produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> > >Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> > >too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> > >includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> > >already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> > >a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> > >Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> > >other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> > >permanently eing.
> > >
> > >Love,
> > >Paul
> >
> > There is a name for this medical condition.  You should see a doctor, stop
> > the use of hallucinogens, and take care of yourself.
> >
> > You can't just cut back, you have to stop.  Now go and see a doctor and get
> > it together.
> >
> > Peace,
> > john
> >
> > P.S.  Drugs can fuck you up even if you moderate.  There are some things
> > you can;t do forever.  For me my weed days, I feel, are coming to an end as
> > my body has developed an ever increasing allergic reaction to it.  Damn, I
> > guess I'll have to mediatate or do something else.  But weed is on its way
> > out for me.
> >
> > food for thought.
> >
> > "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> > Narcotics
> >
> >
> >
> 
> another deep space transmission from... ..  .
> or...
> another deep transmission from spacey... ..  .
> 
> (byroni)
> TheSPACEcowboy
> 
> "Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
>                         -me
> ,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
> emails... byroni@ccnet.com
> websurfin... http://www.ccnet.com/~byroni
> plane of existence... spiritual deep house
> name of my cat... UNIX! ;)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 23:50:20 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:56:05 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
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Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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I use every drug for medecine. E is aspirin for the heart.

Paul

Reagan Reid wrote:
> 
>  Are you using it for medicine??..if you're not than it *is* a drug!
> 
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > Yes. I definetly have decided to cut way back. It was one of my new
> > years resolutions to take long breaks between drug usage. Everything
> > except weed. Cause weed's not a drug it's medecine.
> > Love,
> > Paul*E*Wog
> >
> > lara at vibe.org wrote:
> > >
> > > Paull,
> > > in all due respect
> > > maybe this is a sign (more like a brick smashing into your head)
> > > suggesting that you reevaluate your drug usage.
> > > and your friends too.
> > > drugs aren't supposed to last forever like that, and as boomerang said,
> > > you only have one brain.
> > > ever think of THAT?
> > > xo
> > > lara
> > >
> > > On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > >
> > > > Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> > > > Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> > > > are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> > > >
> > > > I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> > > > produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> > > > Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> > > > too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> > > > includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> > > > already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> > > > a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> > > > Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> > > > other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> > > > permanently eing.
> > > >
> > > > Love,
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 23:52:39 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:58:02 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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That and the fact that using drugs all the time leaves the experience to
be taken for granted.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

lara at vibe.org wrote:
> 
> Allergic reaction to weed?
> That's why I quit doing shrooms.. Everytime I did them, I'd end up in a
> REALLY HOT party wearing my goosefeatherdown jacket, freezing, sweating
> balls, with a really delirious state. After I did that 2 times, I realized
> I was prolly allergic to them, which wasn't the case when I first ever ate
> shrooms.
> ~~ be careful with drug usage, John's right, even moderation can fuck your
> mind up pretty good.
> xo
> lara
> 
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:
> 
> > At 12:23 AM -0800 1/25/98, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > >Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> > >Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> > >are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> > >
> > >I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> > >produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> > >Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> > >too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> > >includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> > >already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> > >a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> > >Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> > >other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> > >permanently eing.
> > >
> > >Love,
> > >Paul
> >
> > There is a name for this medical condition.  You should see a doctor, stop
> > the use of hallucinogens, and take care of yourself.
> >
> > You can't just cut back, you have to stop.  Now go and see a doctor and get
> > it together.
> >
> > Peace,
> > john
> >
> > P.S.  Drugs can fuck you up even if you moderate.  There are some things
> > you can;t do forever.  For me my weed days, I feel, are coming to an end as
> > my body has developed an ever increasing allergic reaction to it.  Damn, I
> > guess I'll have to mediatate or do something else.  But weed is on its way
> > out for me.
> >
> > food for thought.
> >
> > "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> > Narcotics
> >
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jan 25 23:54:13 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:59:01 -0700
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From: Seth <sutekh@belief-systems.com>
Subject: BSP: Sabotage tonight
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First of all, thanks to everyone who came out to join us in celebrating
Static's first year anniversary Friday night.  We all had a wonderful time,
and hopefully we'll get it together to throw some more one-offs in the
future...

Also, I wanted to remind you all about Sabotage, a new weekly at Kate
O'Brien's in SF devoted strictly to techno.  Last week was our opening
night, and we were lucky to have DJ Bone from Detroit and Jun from Umoja,
LA rockin the house.

Tonight, we welcome guest dj Joe Rice along with residents Positive P and
Sutekh.

Hope to see you there...

		      SABOTAGE
residentspositivepmarkusmiller
		sutekhjonsantoskitclaytondarinmarshall
Sundays@KateOBrien's:2nd/Howard in SF
10-2 $3 21+

-Seth



|| d  j  .  s  u  t  e  k  h
|| b e l i e f - s y s t e m s
|| http://www.belief-systems.com
|| http://www.nodeOne.com/static



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 00:13:28 1998
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To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> I use every drug for medecine. E is aspirin for the heart.

Then I suggest you seek drug counseling. I have sat by and watch you
relate bad trip drug stories, go on to talk about your permenant
hallucinations, and then go on to ask about potentially dangerous/deadly
drug combinations. Don't you get it? There is a large difference in drug
use and drug abuse, and from reading your posts, I don't think you have
the ability to draw the line and determine when enough is enough. You can
choose to totally disregard what I am saying, or make childish and
derisive comments about what I have said, but it isn't going to help you
with your apparent problem. Your choice, your life.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 00:29:51 1998
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From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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  Paul my dear, I think it's time to wake up and smell reality!! Is their 
a drug that you can take that will improve your maturity??





On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> I use every drug for medecine. E is aspirin for the heart.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Reagan Reid wrote:
> > 
> >  Are you using it for medicine??..if you're not than it *is* a drug!
> > 
> > On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > 
> > > Yes. I definetly have decided to cut way back. It was one of my new
> > > years resolutions to take long breaks between drug usage. Everything
> > > except weed. Cause weed's not a drug it's medecine.
> > > Love,
> > > Paul*E*Wog
> > >
> > > lara at vibe.org wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Paull,
> > > > in all due respect
> > > > maybe this is a sign (more like a brick smashing into your head)
> > > > suggesting that you reevaluate your drug usage.
> > > > and your friends too.
> > > > drugs aren't supposed to last forever like that, and as boomerang said,
> > > > you only have one brain.
> > > > ever think of THAT?
> > > > xo
> > > > lara
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Everybody is asleep, at a rave, or not using the computer tonight!!!
> > > > > Am I the only looser that decided to stay home?? All the massive people
> > > > > are at Ground Zero and all the underground people at Lightseed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a question for anyone who has in their past done any drug that
> > > > > produces motion trails (Acid, Shrooms, Special K, MDEA, 2C-B, PCP, DXM,
> > > > > Dramamine, DMT). Do you see those damn trails when you are %100 sober
> > > > > too? I know I do and every time I do anything visual again (that
> > > > > includes smoke weed) they seem to get worse and worse. I mean I am
> > > > > already starting to see regular shit breathe (like a pile of clothes or
> > > > > a wall) a little bit if i stare at it long enough when I am sober.
> > > > > Anyone here have permanent visuals when they close their eyes? Or any
> > > > > other permanent effect from any drug? I know quite a few people who are
> > > > > permanently eing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Love,
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > >
> 


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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Here Are The Facts You Requested <hatfyr@slip.net>
Subject: Technic 1200 only $448 @ Trance factory (BP)
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The Trance and Jungle factory has 4 Technics 1200's for $448 each, this week
only.
They arrive Wednesday, but you need to pay for them in advance (probably
before Wednesday)

Please call Thomas @ 510-704-9876 

or you can stop by the store, it's on Telegraph Ave in Berkeley, about 1
block south of Dwight Way.

Please don't respond to this message., I'm just doing a flavor for the
store.  thanks for allowing the BP.


3  0  0  |\/|  e  r  @  |\|  9


         H				
        ERE 			
       ARETH		 www.slip.net/~hatfyr
      EFACTSYO
     UREQUESTED       enlarged for easy listening
   hatfyr@slip.net
 www.slip.net/~hatfyr

  


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 01:07:20 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:06:37 EST
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In a message dated 1/25/98, Paul wrote:

<<I use every drug for medecine. E is aspirin for the heart.>>

Okay, i get it...is this a joke?
Should I be laughing?  because I am getting a little concerned here...
Hell, maybe I'm being naive, but what happened to moderation??


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 01:36:52 1998
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To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>, Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
From: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>
Subject: Re: Mad Hatters? LSD?
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 03:44 PM 1/25/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
>I dunno about that. Explain to me why I don't got that rat dying feeling
>with microdots or gels? I believe the fact that there is no speed in
>blotters. There are two types of acid. LSD-25 and ALD-50 LSD-25 is
>naturaly speedy and the othere which is more lax and visual and usually
>found in gels which is why they give a more gentle comedown.
>Love,


The strychnine content is a myth. Others have told me that you get that
feeling because you EAT the paper, and that has lots of wood (cellulose
that you can't digest!) I don't get that feeling on liquid and when I spit
out the pulp I didn't get the cold chisel in the navel any mre.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 01:45:38 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:06:38 -0800
From: "Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net>
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To: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
CC: faust@grift.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: MoS - kill kill kill
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Well, it seems like MoS and their music are getting the crap beat out of them. I personally couldn't give a damn about MoS, but I have followed Sasha and Digweed for several years. IMHO, they put out some good mixes, IF you like the style of music (if you don't like it, shut the fuck up and let people who do enjoy it without criticism! Full respect...). MoS absconded with Sasha and Digweed for their own marketing reasons, and draw at the clubs.

I have a cd collection of several hundred that spans all dance/rave genres, and I find that the MoS label puts out a lot of crap.  I've checked many of them out, and returned most of them. They're no different than the 100% Pure etc, or As Seen On TV.. But, would you stop going to see Spun or DJ Dan or UFO or whomever your favorite dj is, because they're on a money sucking label? Did you buy their first mix/demo tapes at BPM or Soundworks? They (the djs) gotta make some cash.  I go for the music the specific dj plays and their artistic style, and hope it's at an underground, not a massive. Fuck the label. (I hear it already, "Would you buy XYZ product because ABC corporation supports the manufacturer?!" yea, whatever...)

Anyone who feels that our scene hasn't already been exploited, and that it isn't loaded with posers, wannabes, fashion victims, etc., hasn't been following it long enough. IMO, the scene peaked five years ago (who went to the first Cyberfest?!), and shortly after broke off into the specific music interests. The underground is still active (that's where the lesser known/accepted music genres are ie. d&b, jungle, bhangra (sp.), down beat, etc..), but the massives dominate the popular scene. MoS is just another massive. We can't keep it underground forever. That's why Hyperreal is active: to spread the news, and keep *us* informed. You don't have to accept it, but deal with it. I'm sick of people bitching and moaning about "oh, OUR scene is becoming soooo popular and boo-hoo all these big corporations are endorsing OUR scene and who are all these fashion freaks and
candy ravers at OUR party". No shit. Welcome to the democracy and human nature.

I've been in and seen enough *scenes* by now to accept that they change. (What's up with the gothic revival? Didn't that *die* in the late 80s? No pun intended...)

By the way, I want to again thank the two hundred plus people that came to my party, Fresh Start, on May 18th  in 1996 (yes '96). It was out at the end of Pier 15 in SF, and had a bunch of *lesser* known djs from around the bay and Sacto, like Rig-a-tony, Karizma and Dr. Jimmy Zimms. We put the whole party on for around $2500, charged a few bucks each,  lost around $700 of that without complaints, still paid off our djs & providers, had killer hand made decorations, three large computer/video visual screens, tons of PLUR, and had a fucking brilliant time! Anyone who was there late remembers the sunrise out on the back dock, and the boatloads of people going to Bay-to-Breakers watching us dance our butts off  in the morning! I considered it an *underground*. The turnout was low because there were TWO MASSIVES THAT NIGHT. Don't bitch about OUR scene becoming
popular...

Respect, to all, and especially those quoted below.

b.



CAT WEASEL wrote:

> I think this is a common probem when people try to understand the UK scene. You may like the music that comes out of the MoS, but beieve me, you would not be supporting them if you knew what that music scene is all about in reality. Sure, listen to digweed and sasha (I'd rather not, but that's my choice) - I can even hande that their music goes off at underground events here - it's a different culture after all. But the scene for this kind of music in the UK is just the most goddam awful posey glammed up overground pop sellout shite that will dig in here then sell out and completelly fuck up any scene that there once may have been by marketing it to the masses who are oh so desperate to be cool and isn't that MoS mix CD just the bomb and they will make so much cash and be successful and just become a huge corporation ike they always stated they wanted to be.
> Choose wisely where you invest your cash - your future scene may depend on it.
> MoS are obviousy trying to get in on the US market as everyone hates their guts in the UK, and I'd rather the word got out now that these fukkers are so much more evi than any big "massive" organisation over here ever could be, they are only about money, not scene or community or values, they are the ENEMY ferchrissakes, backed by multinational corporations (they took a tour to china sponsored by British Associated Tobacco (the Philip Morris of the UK) to pedal their evil wares - they embrace the acohol and tobacco industry).
> They are a corporation hell bent on expoiting the "cool wannabe" youth market.
> They stand for everything that I'd imagine the sfrave scene holds dear.
> Please don't listen to their website as it will give them more hits and popularity.
> You have been warned. Spread the word.
> It is possibe to get mix CDs of this cheesy house music from places other than MoS - please do. I'm not against the music, just the corporation building that's going on behind it in the UK.
> And don't get me started on cream or renaissance or back to basics...
>
> C@weasel
>
> faust@grift.com wrote:
> > Judge the music yourselves. Listen to their live broadcasts:
> > http://www.ministry-of-sound.com
> >
> > CAT WEASEL wrote:
> >
> > > >  From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
> > > >  Subject: Re: Resurrection
> > >
> > > >  Hey Minh,
> > >
> > > >  Ministry of Sound is not just clubs, far from 1015 or
> > > >  SoundFactory, Ministry of Sound has produced some of
> > > >  the best DJ's in the world. Sure its about clubs, but
> > > >  its also about consistently bomb ass
> > > >  music. The clubs I went to in Ibiza were absolutely
> > > >  crazy fun hi ~elena~ there isn't a club in the U.S.
> > > >  that even comes close. (IMHO) DJ Doubt is dope Marc,
> > > >  Ground Zero I'll see you there.
> > >
> > > Ministry of Sound is the biggest leeching shitty lowest common denominator
> > posey overpriced bunch of arse that has ever deigned to grace that city of
> > insanity that is London.
> > > The owner is an aristocratic ex-stockbroker who is blatantly proud that he's
> > completely in it for the money - selling an image that makes people feel they're
> > "cool" even though MoS most definitely isn't. They have dress codes for fucks
> > sake! It's a beer monster's haven, strictly no illegal substances, dress up in
> > nice checked shirts-lads-on-the-pull and a-line minidresses girls-on-the-piss
> > kind of affair.
> > > I could list tons of crimes against humanity that this putrescent organisation
> > has committed, but I won't go into it here.
> > > Anyone who is proud to have (Mos London) after their name is obviously going
> > to be playing cheesy commercial formularic house.
> > > And the word on the street is they're going to go bust soon, and not before
> > time.
> > > Ministry of pound sux. Go listen to some decent music. And if you see anyone
> > with a ministry of sound record bag (every 12 year old schoolkid in London) or
> > tasteful black MoS "bomber" jacket then be sure to inform them of their serious
> > error.
> > > Basically it is the most sell-out-tastic pile of toss in the whole of the UK
> > scene - they know it, everyone else knows it and you too should now know it.
> > Avoid.
> > > Rant over
> > > C@weasel.
> > >
> > > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."
> >
>
> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 01:45:44 1998
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To: adama <adama@magicarts.com>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Sasha/Digweed Northern OverExposure 2
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If you have a Tower Recs nearby, and if they have a decent selection of dance
music, buy there. You can return them within 14 days for to exchange for
something new. They won't give your money back, but you can choose something
else...

Mountain View Tower has a decent selection, but not incredible.

b.

adama wrote:

> I don't understand this whole East Coast West Coast thing with NE2. Am I
> missing something here? My copy of NE2 is a double CD import with a blue
> cover with some yellow and white horizontal stripes and the CDs themselves
> are yellow and labeled nothing more than EXP01 and EXP02. I must have a
> different version or something b/c I hate it. I'm so bummed I spent $34 on
> it. If anyone wants it, make me an offer.
>
> Adam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
> To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 7:45 AM
> Subject: Sasha - That Cool *ss chick! (wink)
>
> >Heya gang,
> >
> >I don't know about some of the reviews for this dual CD (Northen Exposure
> 2).
> >Some of you are really sorta lukewarm about it, but I'm listening to the
> East
> >Coast version right now and I am really moved by it.
> >
> >Am I just a sentimental sap? I think it is amazing.
> >
> >oh well. I guess if I lived in the U.K. i'd be a sell out or something.
> >
> >;)
> >
> >rob.
> >http://www.citizenmag.com






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 01:45:45 1998
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To: jeremy bispo <mercutio73@rocketmail.com>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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Meeeee bee a pisceeee! 18th! So, where's the part-eeee? Hey ffish, the
purple place sounds kewl!

b.

jeremy bispo wrote:

> hello some of u know me!! some of u don't!! but my
> b-day party is comin up...March 6th....yep thats
> right i'm a pisces...ARE there any other PISCES out
> there???
> just curious cuz we all know the scorpios got there
> time on here.. so why shouldnt we??love jeremy
>
> ===
>
> ~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 01:46:54 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:47:17 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: glittergirl@value.net (glittergirl@value.net)
Subject: Re:  Permanent Trails
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>In a message dated 1/25/98, you wrote:
>
><<I have watched those rats closly and they are really dark smudges moving
>fast on the outside of your pereperal vision.
>

>You know, if this happens frequently, it could be either "floaters" in your
>visual field, or little blood clots resulting from microhemorrhages in your
>eye or the surrounding capillaries  (worst-case scenario)

I get black smudges in my field of vision occassionally that move when I
try to look at them.  I've seen an opthamologist about this condition and
he said it was a common and harmless condition where fibers in the eye
break off and float in the vitreous humor, causing black spots in the field
of vision.  A related problem is when you can see amoeba-like things in
your field of vision, which are dead cells floating in the liquid in your
eye.  These are also harmless UNLESS you suddenly notice a great increase
in them, which might mean your retina is detaching.

Back to your original question:  Most people I know who have dropped acid
have noticed some perceptual changes or changes in thought process.  Most
people, however, consider these to be positive results -- they feel that
new connections in their brains have been forged that weren't there before.
Their brains are now able to have thoughts and perceive things in ways
they were not able to before.  They see it as a sign of growth.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 01:54:06 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:54:30 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: glittergirl@value.net (glittergirl@value.net)
Subject: NRR:  Permanent LSD changes - THE GIRL WITH KALEIDOSCOPE EYES
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Okay, I have a friend who claims that her friend who claims in all
seriousness that her friend had brown eyes, dropped around six hits of
acid, and when she sobered up the pigment of her eyes HAD CHANGED COLOR to
blue-green.  I have another, totally unrelated friend, who claims a similar
change in eye pigment after dropping acid.  This seems highly unlikely to
me, but this is a miraculous universe and many things are possible.  Has
anyone had any personal experience with physical changes resulting  from
LSD/other hallucinogen use?

Maybe they were speaking metaphorically??

R



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From: Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Permanent Trails
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> You know, if this happens frequently, it could be either "floaters" in
> your
> visual field, 
> 
	yes...  beware of floaters...  they first showed up.. or i first
noticed them just over a year ago...  unfortunately i didn't know what
floaters were at the time and i thought i was going mental... :D  i
thought that for at least six months... everytime i would mention it to
the doctor they he would either downplay it or change the subject..
when i had to see a different doctor at the walkin clinic, he finally
shared with me what the problem probably is...  a good way i've found to
verify them is to blankly stare out into space and squint a little, then
turn your head from right to left or left to right and come to an abrupt
stop... if you see them float up when you do this, they're most likely
floaters..  from what i've learned, the eye is filled with translucent
gel and the floaters are little opaque bits "floating around" in there..
while the doctor won't admit it i think that they are a direct result of
an accutane treatment i had just over a year and a half ago...  

	unfortunately...  the doctor told me that there is no treatment
for them... and they do get worse over time.... :<  oh well...  

	anyway.. back to your regularly scheduled program..

	--adam

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 02:57:30 1998
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Subject: Re: NRR:  Permanent LSD changes - THE GIRL WITH KALEIDOSCOPE EYES
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My birth certificate and all other id cards up to the age of 20
say i have brown eyes. When i moved to california and did acid
they turned green. Now they are a different color every day as 
anyone who knows me can testify. I've always atributed it to 
either acid rain or maybe it was that time i had an affair with the
alien from the pleiades. It cause me trouble every time i travel
on a passport because i can go into a country with hazel blue
eyes and try to leave with green.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

-------------------------------

glittergirl@value.net wrote:
> 
> Okay, I have a friend who claims that her friend who claims in all
> seriousness that her friend had brown eyes, dropped around six hits of
> acid, and when she sobered up the pigment of her eyes HAD CHANGED COLOR to
> blue-green.  I have another, totally unrelated friend, who claims a similar
> change in eye pigment after dropping acid.  This seems highly unlikely to
> me, but this is a miraculous universe and many things are possible.  Has
> anyone had any personal experience with physical changes resulting  from
> LSD/other hallucinogen use?
> 
> Maybe they were speaking metaphorically??
> 
> R


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 05:16:21 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:16:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At one time I became accutely aware of the patterns in the liquid in my 
eyes... it was very disturbing because for a long period (we're talking 
like a couple of months) it was almost like I was looking through a 
streaky window everywhere.  Over time, though, I learned to ignore it... 
I can still see it if I really concentrate on it :/  I don't think this 
really has to do with drugs, though... it's something that just seemed to 
happen when I was fairly young :/


On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 glittergirl@value.net wrote:

> >In a message dated 1/25/98, you wrote:
> >
> ><<I have watched those rats closly and they are really dark smudges moving
> >fast on the outside of your pereperal vision.
> >
> 
> >You know, if this happens frequently, it could be either "floaters" in your
> >visual field, or little blood clots resulting from microhemorrhages in your
> >eye or the surrounding capillaries  (worst-case scenario)
> 
> I get black smudges in my field of vision occassionally that move when I
> try to look at them.  I've seen an opthamologist about this condition and
> he said it was a common and harmless condition where fibers in the eye
> break off and float in the vitreous humor, causing black spots in the field
> of vision.  A related problem is when you can see amoeba-like things in
> your field of vision, which are dead cells floating in the liquid in your
> eye.  These are also harmless UNLESS you suddenly notice a great increase
> in them, which might mean your retina is detaching.
> 
> Back to your original question:  Most people I know who have dropped acid
> have noticed some perceptual changes or changes in thought process.  Most
> people, however, consider these to be positive results -- they feel that
> new connections in their brains have been forged that weren't there before.
> Their brains are now able to have thoughts and perceive things in ways
> they were not able to before.  They see it as a sign of growth.
> 
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 05:57:48 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:55:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
cc: goodvibe@geocities.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Permanent Trails
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moderation?
hmmm..
kinda think it flew out the door with reality and sanity :)
(in general, of course.. love you paul!)
lara

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Natasha426 wrote:

> In a message dated 1/25/98, Paul wrote:
> 
> <<I use every drug for medecine. E is aspirin for the heart.>>
> 
> Okay, i get it...is this a joke?
> Should I be laughing?  because I am getting a little concerned here...
> Hell, maybe I'm being naive, but what happened to moderation??
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 06:21:48 1998
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From: Jeff Gage <gage@hyperreal.org>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: X-ecutioners?
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Hi... I heard on 313 that the X-ecutioners (formerly X-men) are touring...
anybody know any Bay Area dates, or have they come and gone?

thanks

jeff


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 07:19:43 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Superfly/Curtis Mayfield/soundtrack by womack 
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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how about that phat-assed bass line from {pusherman} on *eggman* (the
beastie boy's [paul's boutique]?)

i'm still waiting to hear someone sample curtis singing:

"i'm trippin out...
trippin out trippin out trippin out
trippin out over you babe..."

got a stack o 27 45"s at some random thrift store today - all 60's
soul platters, aretha, staple singers, curtis's old group the
impressions, james brown, the shirelles, every one of them rocks, all
for like $10...

-mw




---"Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com> wrote:
>
> 
> As a proud owner of a while bunch of Curtis Mayfield LP's and CD's I
> give *big* *props* to this discussion. I personally would like to go
to
> a rave where they're playing some of this kind of KWALITY FUNK in the
> chill room, along with a nice smattering of groups Mayfield has helped
> produce including Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight and the Pips, The
> Staples Singers, etc. Throw in some Meters and Tom Brown and some
> 24-Carat Black for flava... And don't forget that when you hear that
> orchestral swell in a classic 70's "blaxploitation" tune, that was
> originally Curtis Mayfield's idea!
> 
> I was lucky enough to attend a few Curtis Mayfield shows in the late
> 80's before he got paralyzed and retired; these were some of the best
> live shows i've ever seen. This man epitomizes good love and good vibe
> and true soul & funk and he's one of the few performers where I don't
> mind overt christian content prevalent in his music. (I could probably
> handle christianity better if more christians had the kind of love and
> understanding and sincerity that Curtis Mayfield has.)
> 
> I personally think it's time to play "name that rave curtis mayfield
> sample" -- i hereby start this game with the following song, which
> samples the vocal from Mayfield's "if there's hell below, we're all
> gonna go":
> 	Glam -- Hell's Party (DJ Ricci Mix).
> 
> (it's a really good song -- which is surprising because it's kinda 
> trancy sounding.)
> 
> 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> ==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>>
http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
> 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
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> 
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> 





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 07:41:03 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:39:25 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
Subject: enuff drug talk
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Moderator cap on.

This is not SF-drug-experiences or SF-how-many-E's-did-you-do-last-night or
even SF-does-LSD-help-the-PCP-go-down.  This is sfraves.  Though the
psychedelic experience is part and parcel of the rave scene, much of the
chemistry conversation here recently has definitely been off-topic in my
opinion.  Thanks to most of you out there for showing restraint.  

Here is a list of newsgroups where such posts are probably more appropriate:

rec.drugs.*
alt.drugs.*
alt.psychoactives
misc.forsale
gov.us.fed.doj.announce

Enjoy!

	Brian

p.s. - remember, all your posts are being ARCHIVED for all time in a rather
PUBLIC place.  You might feel fine and dandy hiding behind your hotmail.com
or geocities.com accounts, but so did that Navy sailor on AOL.
 
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 07:43:34 1998
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From: NINJARAVER <NINJARAVER@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b4a170a9.34cc3e85@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:42:59 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Big hugs to Rudi, Lisha, Bbong, Niko, Matt,  Amanda & cool green hair guy=
 that=0Ano-one can remember the name of!=0A=0AHey Lisha, thanks for the c=
ool Hayes(TM) bracelet.  I'm gonna wear it all the=0Atime.=0AThat was rea=
lly fun goin' to Chili's and all before lightseed.  We skhould=0Adefinate=
ly do more things like that in the future.=0A=0AMeeting everybody made li=
ghtseed twice as fun.  =0AThe music was pretty good, especially in the ju=
ngle room.(Even though Bonnie=0Anever showed)=0ABut I didn't really like =
the location. =0AI dunno, maybe I'm more of a massive lover, cause it was=
 just too packed for=0Ame.=0AThere were too many people for the small roo=
ms, and the lighting seemed overly=0Abright.=0AThere were'nt any circles =
for me to bust out my phat moves, and I didn't even=0Ahave space to let m=
y glowsticks fly.=0A=0ABut I still had a helluva time.  =0AI was just gla=
d to have made it down there.  I had planned to give people=0Arides until=
 my mom decided at the last minuite thatI couldn't use her car.  My=0Acar=
 wouldn't make it half way in it's wonderful condition.=0A=0ASorry we mis=
sed our meeting point Rudi.  We met another friend on the way up=0Awho wa=
nted to come, and we got sidetracked.  =0A=0AWelp, weekend's over already=
.  Back to the grind.=0AFROGMAN=0A=0A=93Once again we are walking in natu=
re like an elephant in a china cabinet.=94  -=0ARachel Carson=0A

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 07:50:16 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:49:30 EST
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Subject: NRR huh?
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Hey, how come all the sentences got scrunched together in my last e-mail?
I definately didn't write it like that.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 08:58:57 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:02:12 -0800
To: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: What else do you people want from me?
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This is a quote for the ages!

Baby Huey (aka Danny) shared:
>I'm going to college now, what else do you people want from me?

        Well, what are you offering?  8)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 09:49:23 1998
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Subject: NRR:Floaters(was RE: Permanent Trails)
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-->Floaters are a common occurence and shouldn't be dangerous...I don't
think.  Anyways, Natasha mentioned they are a part of age, but that's not
true...they are present for young people too, but they do increase with
age.  I have horribly bad Myopia (near-sightedness) and have to wear
serious coke-bottles (..the better to see you with :) or contacts.  I have
always seen floaters, but they are most visible when my eyes are tired or
when I don't have my glasses or contacts on. I have been wearing glasses
since first or second grade, and even though my vision wasn't that bad
(relatively) in the beginning, I still remember seeing floaters--but just
not knowing what they were. 
	My optometrist did mention that if there are any sudden drastic
changes in vision, it is advisable to see an eye doctor. In the case of
floaters, you shouldn't panic unless they interfere with your vision and
hinder your daily life. An overabundance of floaters could be a symptom of
something more serious, but seeing a few once in a while is quite normal.

:)
M&m

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Adam Weiss wrote:

> 
> > You know, if this happens frequently, it could be either "floaters" in
> > your
> > visual field, 
> > 
> 	yes...  beware of floaters...  they first showed up.. or i first
> noticed them just over a year ago...  unfortunately i didn't know what
> floaters were at the time and i thought i was going mental... :D  i
> thought that for at least six months... everytime i would mention it to
> the doctor they he would either downplay it or change the subject..
> when i had to see a different doctor at the walkin clinic, he finally
> shared with me what the problem probably is...  a good way i've found to
> verify them is to blankly stare out into space and squint a little, then
> turn your head from right to left or left to right and come to an abrupt
> stop... if you see them float up when you do this, they're most likely
> floaters..  from what i've learned, the eye is filled with translucent
> gel and the floaters are little opaque bits "floating around" in there..
> while the doctor won't admit it i think that they are a direct result of
> an accutane treatment i had just over a year and a half ago...  
> 
> 	unfortunately...  the doctor told me that there is no treatment
> for them... and they do get worse over time.... :<  oh well...  
> 
> 	anyway.. back to your regularly scheduled program..
> 
> 	--adam
> 


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-->This brought up an interesting point...as vegetarians, what type are
you?  Do you eat seafood at all?  This might be a sticky issue when that
Vietnamese din-din night comes up...let me know so I can think of a
possible viet veg option for you to order/location to scout.

:)
M&m


On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> Heres a couple of ideas for a fish dinner.
> 
> There is a pretty good thai resturant in berkeley that
> has a reasonable amount of veggie selections for us
> fish that dont consume that vile disease ridden flesh
> of angry tourtured animals and their babies.
> Plus the staff all wear purple.
> 
> Or there is vechas here in san francisco which has the best
> vegi satay ive ever had.
> 
> My friend has access to a hotel room and assorted goodies that 
> we are considering for a little party 
> 
> I can help put this together but i must warn you up front
> that i did have an affair and i did inhale and i did lie about both.
> It takes a village to satisfy some of us.
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> ps...there is an eclipse on friday the 13th in march at 4:20,
> thats my b-day also. And mars just moved into pisces today.
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 10:40:30 1998
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To: SFRavEs Mailing List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Now, who's spreading nasty rumors.

Sorry, I did not attend lightseed.

Boring old me, I haven't been to a ravE since...you don't want to know.

But I have no green hair, in fact I have no green hair.  Nope.

But you all should say hi to my friend-ola Chris, because

1.  He's cool
2.  He has a GTI
3.  He has a Newton
4.  He finally went to a real ravE this weekend, I think.  Did you go, Chris.

You better have, I'm plugging you in front of a lot of people.  Please tell
me you went.

well, I'm going to mosey off to bed sometime here.

bye!

dEEp



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 10:45:27 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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-->Weird!!!!

	That's one word that kept on popping up in my mind throughout the
night.  I arrived around midnite or before and was wearing an oldschool
navy adidas tracksuit with baby blue stripes.  Instead of wearing my usual
red raver-pack I decided to break in my Winnie the Pooh backpack.
Pooh-bear was quite popular as people kept on coping a feel, but well, he
just doesn't have the storage capacity of my other bag (or the broken
zipper); so I only had half of my toys to share.... 
	Anyways, this party was too big for me.  Yes, it's true, I've
gotten used to the intimate UG's and this felt like a massive.  Don't get
me wrong, the music was excellent and the people there were cool, but the
venue was strange and too well-lighted, and the constant circulation of
humanity through the rooms was...er...disconcerting.  That elevator would
waft some very interesting (and sometimes pungent) smells everytime the
double doors would open.  It was strange to get the jasmine aromatherapy
in the lobby, the nicotine therapy from the stairwell, and the random
watermelon candy-raver lollipop smell in the trance room followed back to
back.  Lesse, huge applause for the free water and oranges 'n stuff from
the NUB counter, interesting visuals in the main upper room, and nice
black lights in the trance-room-jungle-room-connecting-passage-elevator- 
foyer-cum-chill-out room.  
	It was really weird because I would run into so many people I
would not have expected to see in a million years.  Blast from the
freshman year past...friends and memories from my first semester in
Germany, and friends and memories from my last semester in Germany, as
well as people I've only met last week or a couple of months
before...weird.  The thing is, half of these people I wouldn't connect to
raves, and a friend of a friend knew me from another friend of hers that I
had only met  some months ago from my program in Tahiti, and said friend
of a friend knows this other friend I had met in Germany from another
friend who happened to be there as well, who was hanging with the
A-something girl I had followed to get to TranceForce the week before! 
	I only met one SFRaver *Hi Haze* who gave me one of her bracelets,
and I met some new CAL ravers who had an E-newbie that I introduced to
good 'ol Vick's vapo and angel kisses :) Had a great time towards the end
in the jungle room when they were playing some phat hippity-hoppity
schtuff, and Freaky Chakra's set in the trance room was pretty
consistently bomb.  Rob (?) played a nice psychedelic set in the smaller
goa (?) room, and I had fun in the downstairs room before the sweat
started stinging and blinding my eyes. At roughly six there was this
cuttie raver in a white wife-beater, baggie jeans big enough to fit
several emaciated tweakers, white gloves, and twitching robotic dance
grooves kickin' it in the downstairs club room :D~~~~.  There was also
another mighty fine creature with a red bob done in mini horns
wearing fitted black threads bumbin' in the jungle room...looked like 
high school jailbait, though :)
	I can't believe Dutch flaked on the promoters and I missed out on
Ethan's set :(  My friend was shrooming but I was sober and mellow and not
doing too much twirling with my blue glostixs; sorry I didn't have the
energy to hunt some more of y'alls down to say hi. You know what...did it
seem a little bit like a craftshow to you ;) ...had an okay time; would I
do it again?  I dunno...was better than sitting at home, that's fer sure.


:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 13:37:10 1998
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From: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <42f7678b.34cc917c@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:36:58 EST
To: mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: nrr Floaters(was RE: Permanent Trails)
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In a message dated 1/26/98, you wrote:

<<Anyways, Natasha mentioned they are a part of age, but that's not
true...they are present for young people too, but they do increase with
age.  I have horribly bad Myopia (near-sightedness) and have to wear
serious coke-bottles (..the better to see you with :) or contacts.  I have
always seen floaters, but they are most visible when my eyes are tired or
when I don't have my glasses or contacts on. >>

Hey, I'm in the same boat -- I'm very nearsighted as well =( and I have a few
here and there....Floaters do increase with age, but you're right -- you can
get them at a younger age, too, it's all really dependent on the individual 
(so I guess that makes everything relative, right?? It's all in the hands of
physics!!  :D :D )  

luv n hugs,
natasha

PS How's the semester shapin' up fer ya?? :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 15:45:23 1998
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From: Kalidosope <Kalidosope@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:42:32 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: All Pisces Read This!
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I got this out of my Astrology book and I thought all you Pisces might like
it!

The sign of the Dreamer

Symbol: The Two Fishes                     
                   
Element: Water                                  

Quality: Mutable

Rulers: Neptune, Jupiter

Colours: Sea Green, Lilac

Gemstone: Bloodstone

Metal: Zinc

Perfume: Ambergris

Keywords: Impressionably, Nebulously, Compassionately

Rules: The Twelth House (the unconscious, secret enemies,repressed emotions,
dreams, surrendering to a higher cause).

Mythology: The constellation of Pisces is said to commemorate the Fishes who
rescued the goddess Aphrodite and her son Eros after they hurled themselves
into a river to escape the wrath of the giant Typhon. The Fishes were raised
to the heavens as a reward, and there tails tied together by the gods so they
sould never be separated.

Positive Traits: Artistic, kind, sympathetic, intuitive, visionary, sensitive,
adaptable, receptive.

Negative Traits: impractical, vage, carless, spiteful, confused, weak-willed,
indecisive, easily led astray, greedy, immoral.

The Piscean Body

Parts of the body ruled: feet, lymphatic system,glandular system, mucus,
gastro-adbominal system.

Acupuncture Meridian: Small intestine

Piscean Ailments: Bunions, chilblains, alcoholism, drug addiction, lymphatic
and glandular disorders, forgetfulness, insanity.

Beneficial Food: Raisins, dates, cereals.


Well there is a litte info on all us Pisces! Enjoy!

Love,
Amanda 

p.s. I have alot more info if anyone would like it, e-mail me privitaly and I
will be more then glad to send it to you!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 16:02:29 1998
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I have to say I total agree with you Brian. This List is really not meant for
who did this, what it dose ect. The topic of "drugs" has come up many times
and sometimes it is acceptable and some times its not, like right now. So
please lets stop the unnecessary post and move on to greener pastures! 

Love,
Amanda

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 17:09:30 1998
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From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
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Subject: Re: enuff drug talk
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On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Brian Behlendorf wrote:

> 
> 
> 	Brian
> 
> p.s. - remember, all your posts are being ARCHIVED for all time in a rather
> PUBLIC place.  You might feel fine and dandy hiding behind your hotmail.com
> or geocities.com accounts, but so did that Navy sailor on AOL.

		Paul-- I strongly suggest taking the above into
consideration....perhaps you feel *right now* that you won't have a career
down the road that would judge your past w/ drugs (or medicines as put
it) but things change and shit happens!
					Take care of yerself-
                                           Reagan


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 17:25:48 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:41:16 -0800 (PST)
From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: too much is never enuff SRR(somewhat rave related)
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As for me personally I get sick of the old-
you're off topic posts if it weren't for the new
threads one might as well call this or any other list
S.O.S.org you figure it out because really how many
times can one read 
"props out to my man dj ___"
or 
"that party was so slamming, phat beats yada yada yada"
I mean those posts definately have a place on the
list(for me it is usually in the trash) but so do any
of the other posts which you have the option to
delete as well.  It really is not the subject that
makes the list but the people on it.  

With proper labelling of posts one can easily decide
what to read and what to toss without too much effort.

too bring this further off rave topics- I was
wondering what other mailing lists that people were a
part of and really enjoyed being a part of.

thanks for your patience and hope I caused no one too
much eyestrain.

Pjfussy







---Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Moderator cap on.
> 
> This is not SF-drug-experiences or
SF-how-many-E's-did-you-do-last-night or
> even SF-does-LSD-help-the-PCP-go-down.  This is
sfraves.  Though the
> psychedelic experience is part and parcel of the
rave scene, much of the
> chemistry conversation here recently has definitely
been off-topic in my
> opinion.  Thanks to most of you out there for
showing restraint.  
> 
> Here is a list of newsgroups where such posts are
probably more appropriate:
> 
> rec.drugs.*
> alt.drugs.*
> alt.psychoactives
> misc.forsale
> gov.us.fed.doj.announce
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 	Brian
> 
> p.s. - remember, all your posts are being ARCHIVED
for all time in a rather
> PUBLIC place.  You might feel fine and dandy hiding
behind your hotmail.com
> or geocities.com accounts, but so did that Navy
sailor on AOL.
>  
>
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
> "Optimism is a strategy for making                 
       brian@apache.org
> a better future." - Noam Chomsky                   
    brian@hyperreal.org
> 


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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:54:33 -0800
To: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
Cc: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 1:07 PM -0800 1/25/98, Geoff White wrote:
>>> There is a name for this medical condition.  You should see a doctor, stop
>>> the use of hallucinogens, and take care of yourself.
>>>
>>> You can't just cut back, you have to stop.  Now go and see a doctor and get
>>> it together.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> john
>
>
>Your mileage may vary.  I did my first acid in 1971 when I was 14. I
>continued to trip throughout the 70's, seeing trails was to me a pleasant
>by-product of all of this.  I remember taking physics in high school and
>learning the mathematics around acceleration, I was tripping one day and
>right before my eyes I could see this complete graphic display for
>increased velocity per second as this car accelerated in front of me. If
>you take a lot of psychedelics expect to see trails for a while, it goes
>with the territory. During the 80's I didn't take them that much and the
>phenomena calmed down,
>In the 90's I started up a gain (wonder why :) but the dosages that i took
>were not nearly as much as in the 60's. Also bear in mind that your brain
>will adapt over time so you won't see trails as pronounced as time goes on.

Each person is entirely different.  Whereas some people might have the
trailers go away, there are cases where this side effect is permanent.
Since I am not a Neurologist, nor to I specialize in psychopharmacology, I
would defer to what they say about my brain.  Until one gets thoroughly
checked out, it's all speculation.

>
>Psychedelics alter your abilities at perceiving reality PERMANENTLY! It is
>one of the great things about them (for some of us), It's what Jimi sang
>about in the 60's when he asked the question "Are you experienced?" For
>some people this is a scary though and if you find this to be so, then you
>should not do them.

Jimi Hendrix is dead.  He experienced himself right into the grave.


>
>As far as I'm concerned real LSD is a lot safer from a physiological
>standpoint then just about any recreational drug, it doesn't affect your
>lungs, it's LD50 is so high that you couldn't afford it :) and it doesn't
>alter you body much , except for dilated pupils and increased respiration
>do the increased stimulus.

With all the research avaialble, they still have lots to learn about that
drug.  It has been used and abused, and is quite illegal here.  Too bad,
since some solid research into neuortoxicity should be done on all the
synthetics to allow for more informed decsiions if nothing else.  Right now
, depite all the info coming out of Sandoz, there is alot of information
left to reveal.

Travel with caution.

>  Compared to MDMA, Cocain, tobacco, alcohol and
>even Pot it is pretty benign.  As far as bad trips, well set and setting
>are _extremely_ important.
>Dosage is also a factor, it is extremely rare that someone will have a bad
>trip on 100 micrograms (one blotter) now when you done a "puddle" of liquid
>or a "sheet" of blotter that's another story. Make sure your in a good
>mood, feel good about yourself and who you are with and where you are.  If
>you gotta do this, it's better to do it at a place where there isn't the
>potential for the police to bust in and frighten you, or force you to drive
>away :)
>It's also a good idea to have at least one "baseline" friend around who can
>handle an emergency situation of keep you from doing something stupid.
>
>I don't recommend that people take their first psychedelic excursions at
>parties, there are a lot of subtleties that will be missed and there is a
>lot that you need to learn about yourself on these drugs.  LSD WILL MAKE
>YOU INTROSPECTIVE!!! IF YOU DON't LIKE THE PERSON YOU ARE IT'S NOT A GOOD
>IDEA TO TAKE LSD.
>
>
>Get real information about these drugs not myths and scare stories
>
>
>				http://www.island.org
>
>Especially the books Pihkal by Alex and Ann Shulgin
>			and The Psychedelic Encycopedia by Peter Stafford
>
>
>Here is another pretty useful link on LSD including a link to the book
>written by the creator Albert Hoffman...
>
> http://www.fi.muni.cz/~toms/Psychedelia/lsd.html
>
>
>Mushrooms for me are far more formidable drugs for the following reasons:
>
>	1) The presence of alkaloids and other substances that have
>physiological
>	   effects.
>	2) Possibility of allergic reaction to the various organic compounds
>
>	3) Concentration of the psychoactive components vary from plant to
>plant
>	   season to season, year to year. It is easy to take too much.
>
>In my opinion the chances of having a "bad trip" on mushrooms is far more
>likely due to the above.
>
>For a spiritual perspective I also believe that the "mushroom god" is far
>more unforgiving and alien to humans.  If he feels that you need to see
>something, he won't hold back showing it to you.
>
>
>For me, I've been allergic to weed for years, It doesn't stop me from
>smoking it occasionally, but it is not a drug of choice for me. But then
>I'm just an old hippie-raver and I'm getting to old to really handle my
>drugs :)
>
>
>								G
>Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
>
>Attachment converted: Wrath Of Khan:Untitled 2 (????/----) (00051019)


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics


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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:19:46 EST
To: dreamer@ziplink.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  Permanent Trails
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In a message dated 1/26/98, <<Starchild>> wrote:

<< I admit Paul's post about the permanent
vapor trails was a little unsettling, but let's not leap to conclusions.
        Besides, I think there's much to be said for viewing drugs as
medicine -- simply experiencing joy can be highly therapeutic.>>

I agree with you 200%!  :)  It's good to be able to experience joy and even
reality on *many* different levels and frames of mind/body.  And hey,
everybody's body is their own, so I'll be the *last* one to preach about "what
one should do."  I was just a little concerned...sometimes we don't know the
long-term effects of something till it's too late =(

Have a nice week everybody....

luv n hugs, 
natasha

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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 09:42:00 -0800
From: "Lance Langford" <lancel@afsloans.com>
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     The Lightseed Oneyear was intense... One of the best party experiences 
     I have had in quite a while.
     
     L
     <Fishinglure Neckware> 8)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 17:42:51 1998
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From: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>
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Subject: Sundance Films (fwd)
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Movies to look for... </troy>

--------------

I saw a couple of interesting films at Sundance, relevant to this group:

MODULATIONS, directed by Iara Lee (who previously directed SYNTHETIC
PLEASURES) is a documentary that "intersperses artful imagery with
talking-head interviews and party and club footage to examine the
historical development of electronic music and explore the philosophy of
its young audience." It featured interviews and/or snibbits of live
performances from virtually every major D.J. and musician in the field
(with the notable omission of Wendy Carlos). The emphasis was a little
heavy on the D.J. side, going into great detail about the development of
House music, versus Detroit Techo, Jungle, etc., and the D.J.'s and
producers who made it happen, including an analysis of the roles the
TB303 and TR606, 909 played in the development of this kind of music.
However, care was taken to feature extensive interviews with Bob Moog
(who also plays a gospel song on a Theremin), along with Stockhausen and
several other electronic and music concrete pioneers. I would highly
recommend it if you're really into the D.J. scene, although I was hoping
for a little more Kraftwerk and that type of thing. The highlight for me
was an extremely pretentious interview with F.S.O.L. via the internet,
where they claimed that they were offering themselves up as sacrificial
lambs in the progress of music and then hung up. I'm not sure what's
happening with distribution--if it's like her last film, they'll truck
it around to the theaters themselves, so you might have to watch
carefully for it. (I heard something about the BBC doing something with
it as well, but I'm not sure if that's really happening.)

Another notable film was Pi (actually, the Greek symbol, which I don't
have on my keyboard). It's a very strange, hallucinogenic depiction of
one man's "obsession to construct a theoretical, numerical order out of
chaos in an attempt to decipher a pattern to both the stock market and
existense as a whole." Very trippy. The soundtrack is amazing, featuring
intense, analog (Minimoog) throbbing sounds, as well as liberal
sprinklings of Autechre, Orbitial and the like. Live picked it up for
distribution, so it should be coming to a theater near you some day in
the near future. Highly recommended, particularly if you like your films
a little on the ERASERHEAD side.

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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 18:19:34 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:17:28 -0800
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To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Pardon... I was in a mood, and somewhat regreted sending the message. A bit stronger than normal for me...

BUT...  I don't feel people should bash and put down a general music style without considering the those on sfr who may enjoy the style. Your comment was specific towards Sasha & Digweed, so I didn't think twice about your post. It's your specific opinion on a specific dj(s). But, generalities are frowned upon (need I remind you of the whole Ghetto thread?)

I hope someone, who may enjoy the music, offers to buy the disk set from you. I think Sasha's mix is brilliant, and by no means the mainstream, popular style that MoS puts out.

Thanks for the response, Andy. Best of luck.

Peace,

b.

AndyW wrote:

> So er... does full respect mean telling me to "shut the fuck up"?
>
> I felt it was fair for me to share my opinion of MoS and the quality of
> music there, which bordered on a comment on Sasha/Digweed... both of whom
> are closely affiliated with MoS, and more relevantly, have been accused of
> accepting payola from artists and labels to include their tracks.
>
> Okay?
>
> In Europe, trance has the kind of exposure the Spice Girls have here,
> there's a reason why CatWeasel went off the way he did.
>
> Peace,
> AndyW
>
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Bruce G. Meier, CRM wrote:
>
> > Well, it seems like MoS and their music are getting the crap beat out of them. I personally couldn't give a damn about MoS, but I have followed Sasha and Digweed for several years. IMHO, they put out some good mixes, IF you like the style of music (if you don't like it, shut the fuck up and let people who do enjoy it without criticism! Full respect...). MoS absconded with Sasha and Digweed for their own marketing reasons, and draw at the clubs.
> >
> > I have a cd collection of several hundred that spans all dance/rave genres, and I find that the MoS label puts out a lot of crap.  I've checked many of them out, and returned most of them. They're no different than the 100% Pure etc, or As Seen On TV.. But, would you stop going to see Spun or DJ Dan or UFO or whomever your favorite dj is, because they're on a money sucking label? Did you buy their first mix/demo tapes at BPM or Soundworks? They (the djs) gotta make some cash.  I go for the music the specific dj plays and their artistic style, and hope it's at an underground, not a massive. Fuck the label. (I hear it already, "Would you buy XYZ product because ABC corporation supports the manufacturer?!" yea, whatever...)
> >
> > Anyone who feels that our scene hasn't already been exploited, and that it isn't loaded with posers, wannabes, fashion victims, etc., hasn't been following it long enough. IMO, the scene peaked five years ago (who went to the first Cyberfest?!), and shortly after broke off into the specific music interests. The underground is still active (that's where the lesser known/accepted music genres are ie. d&b, jungle, bhangra (sp.), down beat, etc..), but the massives dominate the popular scene. MoS is just another massive. We can't keep it underground forever. That's why Hyperreal is active: to spread the news, and keep *us* informed. You don't have to accept it, but deal with it. I'm sick of people bitching and moaning about "oh, OUR scene is becoming soooo popular and boo-hoo all these big corporations are endorsing OUR scene and who are all these fashion freaks and
> > candy ravers at OUR party". No shit. Welcome to the democracy and human nature.
> >
> > I've been in and seen enough *scenes* by now to accept that they change. (What's up with the gothic revival? Didn't that *die* in the late 80s? No pun intended...)
> >
> > By the way, I want to again thank the two hundred plus people that came to my party, Fresh Start, on May 18th  in 1996 (yes '96). It was out at the end of Pier 15 in SF, and had a bunch of *lesser* known djs from around the bay and Sacto, like Rig-a-tony, Karizma and Dr. Jimmy Zimms. We put the whole party on for around $2500, charged a few bucks each,  lost around $700 of that without complaints, still paid off our djs & providers, had killer hand made decorations, three large computer/video visual screens, tons of PLUR, and had a fucking brilliant time! Anyone who was there late remembers the sunrise out on the back dock, and the boatloads of people going to Bay-to-Breakers watching us dance our butts off  in the morning! I considered it an *underground*. The turnout was low because there were TWO MASSIVES THAT NIGHT. Don't bitch about OUR scene becoming
> > popular...
> >
> > Respect, to all, and especially those quoted below.
> >
> > b.
> >
> >
> >
> > CAT WEASEL wrote:
> >
> > > I think this is a common probem when people try to understand the UK scene. You may like the music that comes out of the MoS, but beieve me, you would not be supporting them if you knew what that music scene is all about in reality. Sure, listen to digweed and sasha (I'd rather not, but that's my choice) - I can even hande that their music goes off at underground events here - it's a different culture after all. But the scene for this kind of music in the UK is just the most goddam awful posey glammed up overground pop sellout shite that will dig in here then sell out and completelly fuck up any scene that there once may have been by marketing it to the masses who are oh so desperate to be cool and isn't that MoS mix CD just the bomb and they will make so much cash and be successful and just become a huge corporation ike they always stated they wanted to be.
> > > Choose wisely where you invest your cash - your future scene may depend on it.
> > > MoS are obviousy trying to get in on the US market as everyone hates their guts in the UK, and I'd rather the word got out now that these fukkers are so much more evi than any big "massive" organisation over here ever could be, they are only about money, not scene or community or values, they are the ENEMY ferchrissakes, backed by multinational corporations (they took a tour to china sponsored by British Associated Tobacco (the Philip Morris of the UK) to pedal their evil wares - they embrace the acohol and tobacco industry).
> > > They are a corporation hell bent on expoiting the "cool wannabe" youth market.
> > > They stand for everything that I'd imagine the sfrave scene holds dear.
> > > Please don't listen to their website as it will give them more hits and popularity.
> > > You have been warned. Spread the word.
> > > It is possibe to get mix CDs of this cheesy house music from places other than MoS - please do. I'm not against the music, just the corporation building that's going on behind it in the UK.
> > > And don't get me started on cream or renaissance or back to basics...
> > >
> > > C@weasel
> > >
> > > faust@grift.com wrote:
> > > > Judge the music yourselves. Listen to their live broadcasts:
> > > > http://www.ministry-of-sound.com
> > > >
> > > > CAT WEASEL wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >  From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
> > > > > >  Subject: Re: Resurrection
> > > > >
> > > > > >  Hey Minh,
> > > > >
> > > > > >  Ministry of Sound is not just clubs, far from 1015 or
> > > > > >  SoundFactory, Ministry of Sound has produced some of
> > > > > >  the best DJ's in the world. Sure its about clubs, but
> > > > > >  its also about consistently bomb ass
> > > > > >  music. The clubs I went to in Ibiza were absolutely
> > > > > >  crazy fun hi ~elena~ there isn't a club in the U.S.
> > > > > >  that even comes close. (IMHO) DJ Doubt is dope Marc,
> > > > > >  Ground Zero I'll see you there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ministry of Sound is the biggest leeching shitty lowest common denominator
> > > > posey overpriced bunch of arse that has ever deigned to grace that city of
> > > > insanity that is London.
> > > > > The owner is an aristocratic ex-stockbroker who is blatantly proud that he's
> > > > completely in it for the money - selling an image that makes people feel they're
> > > > "cool" even though MoS most definitely isn't. They have dress codes for fucks
> > > > sake! It's a beer monster's haven, strictly no illegal substances, dress up in
> > > > nice checked shirts-lads-on-the-pull and a-line minidresses girls-on-the-piss
> > > > kind of affair.
> > > > > I could list tons of crimes against humanity that this putrescent organisation
> > > > has committed, but I won't go into it here.
> > > > > Anyone who is proud to have (Mos London) after their name is obviously going
> > > > to be playing cheesy commercial formularic house.
> > > > > And the word on the street is they're going to go bust soon, and not before
> > > > time.
> > > > > Ministry of pound sux. Go listen to some decent music. And if you see anyone
> > > > with a ministry of sound record bag (every 12 year old schoolkid in London) or
> > > > tasteful black MoS "bomber" jacket then be sure to inform them of their serious
> > > > error.
> > > > > Basically it is the most sell-out-tastic pile of toss in the whole of the UK
> > > > scene - they know it, everyone else knows it and you too should now know it.
> > > > Avoid.
> > > > > Rant over
> > > > > C@weasel.
> > > > >
> > > > > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."
> > > >
> > >
> > > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 18:32:33 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:32:07 -0800
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From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: too much is never enuff SRR(somewhat rave related)
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At 02:41 AM 1/26/98 -0800, pj fuzzy wrote:
>As for me personally I get sick of the old-
>you're off topic posts if it weren't for the new
>threads one might as well call this or any other list
>S.O.S.org you figure it out because really how many
>times can one read 
>"props out to my man dj ___"
>or 
>"that party was so slamming, phat beats yada yada yada"

Point definitely taken, for me it's just a matter of degrees.  It's a fact
that psychedelics are an (optional of course) part of the rave scene, and
so some discussion is fine; but when it comes down to speculation as to
what an elephant tranquilizer and a methamphetamine will do when combined,
there are really (IMO) better places to ask that question.

	Brian




--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 18:35:56 1998
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Brian Behlendorf wrote:

> Here is a list of newsgroups where such posts are probably more appropriate:
>
> rec.drugs.*
> alt.drugs.*
> alt.psychoactives
> misc.forsale
> gov.us.fed.doj.announce
>

There is a god ... or at least a moderator. Now you just need to turn people
onto rec.poetry and rec.humor.

> p.s. - remember, all your posts are being ARCHIVED for all time in a rather
> PUBLIC place.  You might feel fine and dandy hiding behind your hotmail.com
> or geocities.com accounts, but so did that Navy sailor on AOL.

Somehow I think *this* is the reason for the sudden moderation announcement ...
toprotect people from themselves basically.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 18:41:48 1998
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Kalidosope@AOL.COM wrote:

> I have to say I total agree with you Brian. This List is really not meant for
> who did this, what it dose ect. The topic of "drugs" has come up many times

My, my, my ... someone telling *me* what this list is and isn't meant for.
What'sgood for the goose apparently isn't good for the gander.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 18:52:59 1998
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From: "Matt Schwartz" <thorfio@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Equipment for sale
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Dj equipment for sale...EXCELLENT condition, less then a year old but I 
want to sell it all in one deal so here's the deal

2 Technic 1200's
1 Numark 1100 Mixer
1 Very nice, sturdy, big Genz-Benz Cauffin

All for just $1200

And if you want I'll throw in two Ornaphone DJ Cartrigages (sp?)
for $100 dollars extra.

The best way to get in touch with me is to e-mail me at 
thorfio@hotmail.com , or else you can give me a page at 408 860-5554

-Matt-





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 19:21:36 1998
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On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Bruce G. Meier, CRM wrote:

> Pardon... I was in a mood, and somewhat regreted sending the message. A
> bit stronger than normal for me... 

Nothing wrong with a strong opinion...

> BUT...  I don't feel people should bash and put down a general music
> style without considering the those on sfr who may enjoy the style. Your
> comment was specific towards Sasha & Digweed, so I didn't think twice
> about your post. It's your specific opinion on a specific dj(s). But,

It wasn't a post, it was a personal mail (presumably between you and I,
but apparently I was mistaken), letting you know that trance isn't _that_
underground in Europe, and that I felt it was appropriate for anyone to be
for or against any issue on this list.  The whole "say something nice or
don't say it at all" air would have kept me from a great deal of quality
insights I have derived from posts on this list... some of them referring
directly to my opinions on things, as well as my DJing (I personally love
both types of feedback, although sometimes difficult to chew, let alone
swallow). 

> generalities are frowned upon (need I remind you of the whole Ghetto
> thread?) 

I'm applying my self imposed gag here... suffice to say apples & oranges.

> I hope someone, who may enjoy the music, offers to buy the disk set from
> you. I think Sasha's mix is brilliant, and by no means the mainstream,
> popular style that MoS puts out. 

I don't own, or plan on owning that disk set, but I'll keep that in mind.
I try not to support labels that make a business of releasing close to
similar versions of the same product to increase sales (the whole East
Coast/West Coast/Import thing).  But I also understand what it's like to
love a certain music, and want all the versions...

> Thanks for the response, Andy. Best of luck.

I appreciate the sentiment.  As an aside, I prefer my personal mail
not be replied to back to the list (I wouldn't have included a rumor
without more clearly outlining the source if posting to the list). 

> Peace,
> b.

Likewise,
AndyW


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 19:25:07 1998
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a couple of weeks ago me and my girl ate some Electric Lollipop Synapse
Skippers.

Now, every time I look down at my chest, it looks like it's breathing.
Same thing happens to my girl.

I'm freakin out.

b))merang



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 19:43:04 1998
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unfortunately i have to sign off the list for now.
i will be back in a month or so.
thanks for all of your suggestions on my new website.
i need to start implementing them now.
if anyone needs a quick glow fix, you know where to find me...
see you at love-a-fair!
PLUR
********************************
Scott Upper
Spinlolly   
...toys and tunes from outer cyber-space.
(310) 452-GLOW  :)
http://www.spinlolly.com
rave@spinlolly.com
**********************************

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 20:03:44 1998
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From: "Smith, Guy" <smithg@segasoft.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Lightseed
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:02:28 -0800
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So, how was it? Stupid me didnt get tix in time so I at least want to hear about it. Was it the phattest of the phat?
W/Love&Harmony
MrBuster


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 20:17:24 1998
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Same thing happened to us.
Skippers are so new that very little info exists.
I dont like them so will never use them again but
have heard that if you avoid sugar for 24 hours
beforehand and eat some protein at least 30 minute
after will prevent any unpleasant side effects.
Of course i wouldnt be surprised if skippers are
made illegal as soon as they become widely known
and available.
Personally i think this is just one more thing
that we dont need and the fact that they are put 
in loolipops is just sick...i mean they are obviously
targeting children as there main market and that sucks.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

------------------------

Peter Sandifer wrote:
> 
> a couple of weeks ago me and my girl ate some Electric Lollipop Synapse
> Skippers.
> 
> Now, every time I look down at my chest, it looks like it's breathing.
> Same thing happens to my girl.
> 
> I'm freakin out.
> 
> b))merang


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 20:34:41 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:32:11 -0800
Subject: Fwd: MAD House!!!!
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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																												MAD  HOUSE



                Ethan                           Joe Rice                  
        ElfLord


Fat Tony

																										Ted                                  DjQ





                                         Live Performance by Baktun 13




Forrest Green																			Pelican Boy										     spEakeR (23)


               






																	OPtic																					Peachfish                     


																													Sunflowerfish





																							         JANUARY 30, 1998


																							             510.665.6524


																																		$5


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 20:51:04 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:50:47 -0800
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        "SRR:A Search for Pisces?" (Jan 24,  1:05am)
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Hi Jeremy,

I'm a Pisces!!!  My bday is Feb. 20th.  I'm going to be...  old.  =)

Love,
Beth

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 20:53:40 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: i done too much   (NRR)
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mmm, synapse skippers.  i like 'em, though it's been years.  they
sorta reminded me of dlt-4's, except you don't get the perpetual
erection.  i wouldn't reccommend the lolipops though, unless you know
the dealer very well.  better to get it in the original pharmacutical
packaging, that way you can control the dosage better.

ahhh, i remember the first time i "rode the lollipop".  i was in
istanbul, you could still get it on the open market from the
pharmacy-wallahs - especially in the tourist quarter, 20 grams would
run you 4-5 american.  about six of us reclined on satin pillows in
some dive-hookah bar in the bad part of town.  after an hour or so,
the patterned tiles on the walls started blinking different colors
like a psychic simon game.  i was with a big group of euro-trash
backpackers, we had just met, but suddenly we were all talking about
experiences we had all had together.  i assumed we were reliving past
lives, but in the end all those crazy stories actually wound up
happening to us within the week.  some of them, in fact, occurred
later that night, when we hit the red light district en masse...

-messiah


---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> Same thing happened to us.
> Skippers are so new that very little info exists.
> I dont like them so will never use them again but
> have heard that if you avoid sugar for 24 hours
> beforehand and eat some protein at least 30 minute
> after will prevent any unpleasant side effects.
> Of course i wouldnt be surprised if skippers are
> made illegal as soon as they become widely known
> and available.
> Personally i think this is just one more thing
> that we dont need and the fact that they are put 
> in loolipops is just sick...i mean they are obviously
> targeting children as there main market and that sucks.
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Peter Sandifer wrote:
> > 
> > a couple of weeks ago me and my girl ate some Electric Lollipop
Synapse
> > Skippers.
> > 
> > Now, every time I look down at my chest, it looks like it's
breathing.
> > Same thing happens to my girl.
> > 
> > I'm freakin out.
> > 
> > b))merang
> 
> 





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 20:53:46 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: i done too much   (NRR)
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mmm, synapse skippers.  i like 'em, though it's been years.  they
sorta reminded me of dlt-4's, except you don't get the perpetual
erection.  i wouldn't reccommend the lolipops though, unless you know
the dealer very well.  better to get it in the original pharmacutical
packaging, that way you can control the dosage better.

ahhh, i remember the first time i "rode the lollipop".  i was in
istanbul, you could still get it on the open market from the
pharmacy-wallahs - especially in the tourist quarter, 20 grams would
run you 4-5 american.  about six of us reclined on satin pillows in
some dive-hookah bar in the bad part of town.  after an hour or so,
the patterned tiles on the walls started blinking different colors
like a psychic simon game.  i was with a big group of euro-trash
backpackers, we had just met, but suddenly we were all talking about
experiences we had all had together.  i assumed we were reliving past
lives, but in the end all those crazy stories actually wound up
happening to us within the week.  some of them, in fact, occurred
later that night, when we hit the red light district en masse...

-messiah


---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> Same thing happened to us.
> Skippers are so new that very little info exists.
> I dont like them so will never use them again but
> have heard that if you avoid sugar for 24 hours
> beforehand and eat some protein at least 30 minute
> after will prevent any unpleasant side effects.
> Of course i wouldnt be surprised if skippers are
> made illegal as soon as they become widely known
> and available.
> Personally i think this is just one more thing
> that we dont need and the fact that they are put 
> in loolipops is just sick...i mean they are obviously
> targeting children as there main market and that sucks.
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Peter Sandifer wrote:
> > 
> > a couple of weeks ago me and my girl ate some Electric Lollipop
Synapse
> > Skippers.
> > 
> > Now, every time I look down at my chest, it looks like it's
breathing.
> > Same thing happens to my girl.
> > 
> > I'm freakin out.
> > 
> > b))merang
> 
> 





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 21:50:04 1998
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From: "Smith, Guy" <smithg@segasoft.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: What are skippers??
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:48:50 -0800
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Just wondering what it is, what it does. Any info would be appreciated
W/Love&Harmony
Guy


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 21:54:19 1998
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From: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: Re: What are skippers??
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man...  
	you just _don't_ want to know!


don't even think about trying 'em...
	once you do... you'll  stick  to 'em forever!

At 01:48 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Smith, Guy wrote:
>Just wondering what it is, what it does. Any info would be appreciated
>W/Love&Harmony
>Guy
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 22:56:05 1998
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Not to toot my own horn, but we are in Aquarius, and my bday is comin up in
just a few days.  All you fish are wiggling ahead of your selves.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 23:01:54 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: i done too much   (NRR)
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now correct me if I'm wrong but were talking about
5,3-gabba-bucolyic acid right.  This is the natural
wste product from a fungus that grows on the sugar
cane and if the cane is not properly refined can be
present in the sugars that are used to make the
lollypops and otehr candies, which can,in some cases,
have a high enough content of the chemical to cause
psychoactive effects.  Its harder to notice in
children because they are naturally more creative and
imaginitive so they could really be tripping balls,
talking to "imaginary friends" and stuff and we
dismiss it as eccentricities of youth.

pjf





---messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> mmm, synapse skippers.  i like 'em, though it's
been years.  they
> sorta reminded me of dlt-4's, except you don't get
the perpetual
> erection.  i wouldn't reccommend the lolipops
though, unless you know
> the dealer very well.  better to get it in the
original pharmacutical
> packaging, that way you can control the dosage
better.
> 
> ahhh, i remember the first time i "rode the
lollipop".  i was in
> istanbul, you could still get it on the open market
from the
> pharmacy-wallahs - especially in the tourist
quarter, 20 grams would
> run you 4-5 american.  about six of us reclined on
satin pillows in
> some dive-hookah bar in the bad part of town. 
after an hour or so,
> the patterned tiles on the walls started blinking
different colors
> like a psychic simon game.  i was with a big group
of euro-trash
> backpackers, we had just met, but suddenly we were
all talking about
> experiences we had all had together.  i assumed we
were reliving past
> lives, but in the end all those crazy stories
actually wound up
> happening to us within the week.  some of them, in
fact, occurred
> later that night, when we hit the red light
district en masse...
> 
> -messiah
> 
> 
> ---fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> >
> > Same thing happened to us.
> > Skippers are so new that very little info exists.
> > I dont like them so will never use them again but
> > have heard that if you avoid sugar for 24 hours
> > beforehand and eat some protein at least 30 minute
> > after will prevent any unpleasant side effects.
> > Of course i wouldnt be surprised if skippers are
> > made illegal as soon as they become widely known
> > and available.
> > Personally i think this is just one more thing
> > that we dont need and the fact that they are put 
> > in loolipops is just sick...i mean they are
obviously
> > targeting children as there main market and that
sucks.
> > 
> > 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> > 
> > 		foolish fish
> > 
> > ------------------------
> > 
> > Peter Sandifer wrote:
> > > 
> > > a couple of weeks ago me and my girl ate some
Electric Lollipop
> Synapse
> > > Skippers.
> > > 
> > > Now, every time I look down at my chest, it
looks like it's
> breathing.
> > > Same thing happens to my girl.
> > > 
> > > I'm freakin out.
> > > 
> > > b))merang
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 23:02:55 1998
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From: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: nrr : age of aquarius
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lets celebrate the aquarians out there!  (like me, like me!)  

my birthday is january 27, tomorrow.  any others out there with birthdays
coming up REAL soon?

matt =)

matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists / matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too much /  
                _______
               /       \
              /  o   o  \
              |    ^    |
              |         |
     ___      \   \_/   /       ___
  __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
 (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
(_______  ____________________  _______)
 (______ /                    \ ______)
  (_____/                      \_____)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 23:40:57 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:38:32 -0800
Subject: Fiesta! (MAd House)
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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		                                                  MAD  HOUSE



                                           Ethan                          
Joe Rice     

             
                                                         ElfLord


                                                        Fat Tony

																				Ted                                  DjQ





                                         Live Performance by Baktun 13




Forrest Green																			Pelican Boy										     spEakeR (23)


               






																	OPtic																					Peachfish   

                  


																													Sunflowerfish





																							        JANUARY 30, 1998


																							            510.665.6524


																																	$5


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 23:44:31 1998
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Happy birthday natasha(jan 26)

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 23:48:55 1998
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From: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
To: "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Lightseed...
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:51:38 -0800
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My night started off pretty well that night.  I had dinner with a 
couple of cool people on the list at Chili's at Winchester, in 
San Jose.  Haze (frog boix misspelled your name..), Matt,
Bbong, Rudi, Amber and her friend (sorry, can't remember 
his name...  :), and Nico!  They were great dinner company 
and a pretty good meal too!  Thanks again for the Haze (tm)
bracelet!  I love it!  (Mine's better than yours is frog boix!!  >;?)
I went home real quick to get my sweatshirt and money, 
a friend of mine showed up and asked if we wanted to party!
The only thing was FrogBoix and I had to wait for him to get 
ready!  :(  So, instead of meeting up at the designated point
that Rudi and I discussed, we missed the meet up place.
I did get to see Haze and her friend Greg.  My friend Tracy
and Christie met us there as well!  We had a great time in the 
jungle room.  I was disappointed that Bonnie wasn't spinning
on account of her being in Canada.  Every other time I went to 
see her, she was on too early and I missed her!  Oh well!  
Lot's of good visuals and although it was REALLY packed
on account of people can't walk through a hallway!  Too many 
laggers!  The jungle room was my favourite though.  Great 
job guys!  The main room was a disappointment though.  
As I first walked in, the DJ bumped his rekkids and the music cut
out!  Very unprofessional!  One of the DJ's in the jungle room was 
even dancing behind the turntables!  He kicked ass!  He was the 
highlight of my evening, besides meeting up with some cool-e-o
SFRavers!!!!

All in all, i had a great evening and I'd just like to thank the 
producers of the party.  The only complaint I have is that there was
way too many people in there!  

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

Rick Fish
AirLink Communications, Inc.
www.airlink.com
rickf@airlink.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 23:50:18 1998
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From: "Smith, Guy" <smithg@segasoft.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Happy  Birthday Natasha!!!!!!!!
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:48:59 -0800
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Have a great birthday kid!
W/Love&Harmony
MrBuster


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 23:52:20 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:47:04 -0800
From: kbOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com>
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Organization: DiS
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CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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I'm not a Pisces but must say that I have always felt drawn to the
mysterious fish. Growing up, my three best friends in life were of that
mysterious clan.
Lauds to your moody introspective genius.
Praise to your powerful emotions.

Of course this is a bit premature, but meant in earnest anyway.




May the force be with you

kbOOM

jeremy bispo wrote:

> hello some of u know me!! some of u don't!! but my
> b-day party is comin up...March 6th....yep thats
> right i'm a pisces...ARE there any other PISCES out
> there???
> just curious cuz we all know the scorpios got there
> time on here.. so why shouldnt we??love jeremy
>
> ===
>
> ~Remember to *Play Nice*~        ~Question Reality~




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jan 26 23:56:09 1998
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From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
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cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: nrr : age of aquarius
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 coolio Happy Birthday Matt!!!!..mine is on the 5th..=)....help!




On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Matthew D. P. K. Lanier wrote:

> lets celebrate the aquarians out there!  (like me, like me!)  
> 
> my birthday is january 27, tomorrow.  any others out there with birthdays
> coming up REAL soon?
> 
> matt =)
> 
> matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists / matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too much /  
>                 _______
>                /       \
>               /  o   o  \
>               |    ^    |
>               |         |
>      ___      \   \_/   /       ___
>   __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
>  (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
> (_______  ____________________  _______)
>  (______ /                    \ ______)
>   (_____/                      \_____)
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 00:13:29 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:11:23
From: CAT WEASEL <cat.weasel@usa.net>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Death Valley mission this weekend
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Hiiidey ho, SF ravers!
My, y'all smellin flowery!

"All the freaks
In the house
All the freaks
Raise your hands"

If there are any crazy techno freakz out there then if you fancy an insane mission then me and a few buds are heading on down to Death Valley next weekend to get some crazy loud techno going in the middle of the desert and spin and play live tracks and just jam and hang out. Leaving Fri eve, partying all day Saturday and then returning Sunday.
If this sounds like fun to you (and I'll be perfectly understanding if you just think I'm a weirdo), then get in touch. It'll be at least 6 hours drive, though. And sleeping in the van/tents can be pretty cold at night in the desert. And it's not a big party type of thang, just a few guys n gals hanging out and listening to loud banging techno tunes.
However, it is a mission, and Bob loves a mission.
And its a chance to get out of Slik-e-loot valley and into the wide open wilderness.
Whatever.
The offer is there. You might find yourself already having chosen to get out of civilization and free your mind, body and soul. You might find yourself having thought about how good it was to dance on the bare ground with 360-degree vistas and loud, slamming beats. You may even be thinking about how great it would be to be on a mission of epic proportions with friendly nutters.

C@weasel


Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 00:15:46 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:14:00 -0800
From: "LYLE, THOMAS" <LYLET@pab281a.ssd.loral.com>
Subject: Re: nrr : age of aquarius
To: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>,
  Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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wo-hoo.......... mine's on the 5th, too.

Thomas
B-)
 ----------
From: Reagan Reid
To: Matthew D. P. K. Lanier
Cc: sfraves
Subject: Re: nrr : age of aquarius
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:01PM


 coolio Happy Birthday Matt!!!!..mine is on the 5th..=)....help!




On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Matthew D. P. K. Lanier wrote:

> lets celebrate the aquarians out there!  (like me, like me!)
>
> my birthday is january 27, tomorrow.  any others out there with birthdays
> coming up REAL soon?
>
> matt =)
>
> matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org
 - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists /
matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too
much /
>                 _______
>                /       \
>               /  o   o  \
>               |    ^    |
>               |         |
>      ___      \   \_/   /       ___
>   __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
>  (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
> (_______  ____________________  _______)
>  (______ /                    \ ______)
>   (_____/                      \_____)
>
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 00:21:11 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:37:26 -0700
Subject: Re: nrr : age of aquarius
Message-ID: <19980126.161459.3710.1.Ldylove@juno.com>
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Well we are in the age of aquarius.  I think we have every right to toot
as many horns as we can get are hands on.

My B-day February 15

the tail end but still there.  

RLove

Happy Birthday to all of you out there!!!!!

Aquarians are the wave of the future because we always leave are
mark...wet shoe prints everywhere.
  
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:01:56 -0800 (PST) "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier"
<matt@saturn5.com> writes:
>lets celebrate the aquarians out there!  (like me, like me!)  
>
>my birthday is january 27, tomorrow.  any others out there with 
>birthdays
>coming up REAL soon?
>
>matt =)
>
>matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / 
>matt@lanier.org - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read 
>too many mailing lists / matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / 
>+1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too much /  
>                _______
>               /       \
>              /  o   o  \
>              |    ^    |
>              |         |
>     ___      \   \_/   /       ___
>  __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
> (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
>(_______  ____________________  _______)
> (______ /                    \ ______)
>  (_____/                      \_____)
>
>
>
>

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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 00:32:05 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:28:37 -0800
To: natasha426@aol.com
From: josh sorkin <case@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: 
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Not of this earth--goddess of moon
A body possessed by a funky house tune
Turns benzene, borohydride, and indoles to wine
Alongside her faithful sidekick serpentine
Sweet little Southerner (California that is)
How can anyone have as much energy as this?
A friend to many, a joy to all
4 she's sweeter than any that i can recall
2 you I ecstatically proclaim today
6ccinctly: "HAPPY BIRTHDAY!"
-------------------------------
"i scream so much.  you know what i mean.  this electric stream.  and my
tears in league with the wires and energy and my machine."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 00:56:59 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:56:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: SFRAVES <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR: virtualBoy/Grrrl-friends
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-->Harharhar, this was funny.  MOst of the time random trash mail is a
pain in the booty, but this one is a classic.  It's exactly what everyone
wants in a SO, except life that is :) and the implications are just
mind-boggling; it works on so many levels :D Be nice and don't flame me
on this one okay?


LOL
:)
M&m

P.S. "...the goal of woman is to find the perfect mate and spend years
changing him..." --from some cheesy tv show. 


..............................................................................
   ssssss
  ssssssss
 sss    sss
 ssss    s
  ssss
   ssss     ooo
    ssss   oo oo   Darkness Fell And Covered The Brilliance....
     ssss   ooo
      ssss 
  s    ssss
 sss    sss                                                          Q.
  ssssssss
   ssssss
..............................................................................

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:47:04 EST
From: Marines420 <Marines420@aol.com>
Subject: Re:


 
   The Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend are artificial intelligence 
programs for your IBM PC or compatible and also for MACINTOSH. You 
can watch them, talk to them, ask them questions, tell them secrets, and 
relate with them.  Watch them as you ask them to take off different clothes
and guide them through many different activities. Watch and participate in
the hottest sexual activities available on computer, including: several
sexual positions, using many unique toys, even bringing in multiple partners.
This is no doubt one of the most realistic, sexually stimulating computer
games available. They will remember your name, birthday, your likes and your
dislikes. Every time you start the program, they say different things, and
act differently. Each time, they have a different personality. With the VGA
digital graphics, The Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend software have
some of the hottest, sexiest graphics out there.  And with a Soundblaster or
compatible card, you can actually hear their voice as they talk to you. This
is the first adult software title that was designed for both heterosexual and
homosexual people. I would like you to try the actual full copy out before it
is put on the market.  It will be sold for 1/5 of the actual price ($10.00)
until I can get back some information on what people think of the program.  
Please give it a try and write back any comments.      Thank you.

    If you are interested and would like to order a copy, then you can read
the mailing instructions below.  It comes in an unmarked package and is sent
out at most 4 days after the order is received. You are not put on any
mailing lists whatsoever, guaranteed. It will run on any 386, 486 or higher, 
and 100% IBM compatibles.  Required is VGA graphics, and a hard drive.  
The sound card is optional. Macintosh requires at least 4 meg of ram.  
Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend are artificial intelligence
programs, meaning they are completely interactive. It would be just like if
you were talking to someone.  You can actually have simple conversations.  
Their attitudes change with the different things you say, so you can say
things that will upset them, and then say things that will please them. The
more you play/talk with them, the more you learn what they can do, and what 
they like to do. It really is a blast.  With all these movies coming out
about virtual reality, it's amazing to actually have a virtual reality
program like this for your own computer. It's easy to install, and
instructions are easy to follow.     

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Special Software Offer~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is to inform you about the new adult game that VCS Magazine
rated "The best game of "97".  "The Search for Paradise is no doubt one 
of the greatest XXX adult games available".  The first games where it is
as much fun as it is a turn on!  Travel the world to every continent, every
country you can think of, and meet some of the most beautiful women in
existence.  These women will treat you like a king and obey your every
command.  Any sexual wish you can think of, these women know it all.  
There is a different paradise for every guy out there, and this game will
have them all.  This game uses real models, digital video, and digital sound
to make it as realistic as possible.  You will feel like you're in the same
room as the girl you're talking to!!!

          As an added bonus you'll receive "Club Celebrity X"
     Meet, talk to and even have your way with the celebrities of your choice.
     Imagine being in a club with some very beautiful, well known, actual
     celebrities! You have seen these girls on T.V., Magazines and billboard
ads.
     Now they are on your computer begging for action.  This game is hot and
once you
     start playing, you won't be able to stop!!!

~Required: 386 or better, 4 meg ram or better, Windows 3.1 or higher (Win95
is fine), sound card is optional, Rom is optional.  (Game is given either
CD-rom or compressed 3.5" diskettes).~~$19.95!

                            Order now and get everything for just $24.95!!!!

     
At your request, the programs can come with a password protection utility
that only allows the program to run when the correct password is entered. 
                
                                   (You must be 18 or over to purchase)


Please fill out the following form and mail it to the address above.  
(Feel free to write out the order form by hand)

                        

           Send to:                    Mark Wrhel
                                         P.O. Box 0118
                                      Tujunga, Ca. 91043
       
                        
Your Name ___________________________________________ Date ____________

Address ______________________________________________________________

City ____________________________ State __________ Zip Code ______________

Phone#  _____________________ E-mail Address ___________________________

Do you have an IBM (   ) or MAC (   )?  CD rom (   ) or Disks (   )?

(   ) Virtual Girdfriend or (   ) Boyfriend for $10.00 (   ) *both just $15.95

(   ) The Search for Paradise and Club Celebrity X for $19.95

(   ) Everything!!! The Search for Paradise, Club Celebrity X,
      Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend.  
       >>>>All for just $24.95<<<<
 





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 01:08:07 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:10:44 -0800
From: Sharif Torpis <faust@grift.com>
Organization: Fleece Industries International
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...well, i caught AMP this past saturday night/sunday morning at
2am...not bad...where else would i be able to see videos from
Air or David Holmes?...joebob says check it out even it may go
against every fiber of your being to actually watch something on
mtv...

--
"Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 01:11:53 1998
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To: Sharif Torpis <faust@grift.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: AMP - not as bad as you would think
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I actually have  whole tape of AMP shows with the commercials cut out.  I
really enjoy playing it at my small parties where it can function as
"visuals" alongside my strobelight : )

>...well, i caught AMP this past saturday night/sunday morning at
>2am...not bad...where else would i be able to see videos from
>Air or David Holmes?...joebob says check it out even it may go
>against every fiber of your being to actually watch something on
>mtv...
>
>--
>"Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."
>
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 01:24:07 1998
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From: Kalidosope <Kalidosope@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b0ab4f7e.34cd355d@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:16:11 EST
To: OKELLY@peddie.org, Sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: All Aquarius Read This!
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For the few who requested the info on Aquarius here you go!

The Sign Of The Thinker

Symbol: The Water-Bearer

Element: Air

Quality: Fixed

Rulers: Uranus, Saturn

Colour: Electric Blue

Gemstone: Aquamarine

Metal: Platinum

Perfume: Galbanum

Keywords: Independently, detachedly, unconventionally

Rulers: The Eleventh House ( ideals, group involvements, friends,
humanitarianism, hopes and wishes).

Mythology: There are various myths assoiated with Aquarius, including the
Egyptian god Hapi, from whos water jars poured the River Nile. In Greek
mythology the sign may be linked with the legened Prometheus, who stole fier
from Zeus so that the mortal man may be enlightened. Uranus, the sky god was
slain and castrated by his son Cronos after being imprisoned in the
Underworld.

Postive Traits: Independent, quirky, friendly, willing, progressive, original,
inventive, loyal.

Negitive Traits: Unpredictable, eccentric, rebellious, stubbron, emotionally
oblivious.

The Aquarian Body

Parts of the body ruled: Ankles, calves, shins, Achilles tendon, circulatory
system, breath, eyesight.

Acupuncture meridian: Lung meridian

Aquarian ailments: Inguries to lower legs, varicose veins, poor circulation,
blood disorders, nevous disorders.

Beneficial Foods: Pomegranates

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 01:39:03 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:30:02 -0500 (EST)
From: MacBunny <akp2@acpub.duke.edu>
To: Daveglide@aol.com
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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thanx!!  my b-day is this saturday.  i want a little credit too :)

amber i can't wait to turn 20 & still have to use a fake id mcquown

> 
> 
> Not to toot my own horn, but we are in Aquarius, and my bday is comin up in
> just a few days.  All you fish are wiggling ahead of your selves.
> 
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confucious said "To know what you know, and to know what you don't know, 
is the characteristic of one who knows."

amber perry-mcquown

Peace				akp2@acpub.duke.edu
Love				plur@radonc.duke.edu
Unity				amber@earthling.net
Respect(Rave)			http://www.duke.edu/~akp2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 01:58:38 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:58:29
From: <pokeyp@usa.net>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Just got some NEWS
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I went to a really great UG this weekend at a warehouse in Oakland. The area seems kinda sketchy, but the street the spot is on is really mellow.

Anyhow, the party was great. I think it was called STATIC. It was the third great party I've been to at this space. The sound in the main room was amazing, and so was the music. Freaky Chakra played, and a bunch of other guys that I didn't know. There was a second room that Joe Rice played in, and that was great too. Big thanks to Graysham, the guy who owns the warehouse, for getting another party into his space.

Anyhow, the important thing is that Graysham and his group are throwing QUEST again in March. I don't know the date, but I think it is supposed to be on the Equinox. I'm already excited! The last one was the best party of 1997. I think there are a few people on the list that help to throw this party. 

Thanks for the info, and I can't wait to see what you guys do this time.

Later,

Pokey


Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 02:13:38 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:13:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Reply-To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: i done too much (NRR)
To: "Ravers 'Round the Bay" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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You folks gotta get into s.  It's 100% legal and it's a lot of fun.  It's 
all the rage in SoCal. :)

check out
www.surrealrecords.com/s.html


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 02:20:39 1998
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Subject: sf to santa cruz?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 18:19:54 PST
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what happened to the list of carpoolers who make semi reg journeys to san=
ta cruz?



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 02:32:59 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:32:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: "LYLE, THOMAS" <LYLET@pab281a.ssd.loral.com>
cc: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>,
  sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: nrr : age of aquarius
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  O.k....who's older??...I was born in Silver Springs, MD at 7:38
p.m....=)
                         reagan




On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, LYLE, THOMAS wrote:

> 
> wo-hoo.......... mine's on the 5th, too.
> 
> Thomas
> B-)
>  ----------
> From: Reagan Reid
> To: Matthew D. P. K. Lanier
> Cc: sfraves
> Subject: Re: nrr : age of aquarius
> Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:01PM
> 
> 
>  coolio Happy Birthday Matt!!!!..mine is on the 5th..=)....help!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Matthew D. P. K. Lanier wrote:
> 
> > lets celebrate the aquarians out there!  (like me, like me!)
> >
> > my birthday is january 27, tomorrow.  any others out there with birthdays
> > coming up REAL soon?
> >
> > matt =)
> >
> > matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org
>  - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists /
> matt@linkexchange.com - i work too much / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too
> much /
> >                 _______
> >                /       \
> >               /  o   o  \
> >               |    ^    |
> >               |         |
> >      ___      \   \_/   /       ___
> >   __(___\      \__   __/       /___)__
> >  (______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
> > (_______  ____________________  _______)
> >  (______ /                    \ ______)
> >   (_____/                      \_____)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 02:34:49 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:38:06 -0800
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
From: dreamer@ziplink.net (Starchild)
Subject: Re: i done too much   (NRR)
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Don't know much about skippers... however I have heard a rumor that if you
take them in combination with a gilligan (this mixture is known as a
"re-run"), you will have a real nightmare of a trip in which you imagine
you are stranded on an uncharted desert isle with a bunch of weirdos... the
brain-rotting effects can last for years.

Luv & laughs,
                                <<< Starchild >>>

>Same thing happened to us.
>Skippers are so new that very little info exists.
>I dont like them so will never use them again but
>have heard that if you avoid sugar for 24 hours
>beforehand and eat some protein at least 30 minute
>after will prevent any unpleasant side effects.
>Of course i wouldnt be surprised if skippers are
>made illegal as soon as they become widely known
>and available.
>Personally i think this is just one more thing
>that we dont need and the fact that they are put
>in loolipops is just sick...i mean they are obviously
>targeting children as there main market and that sucks.
>
>        ><{{{">  <"}}}><
>
>                foolish fish
>
>------------------------
>
>Peter Sandifer wrote:
>>
>> a couple of weeks ago me and my girl ate some Electric Lollipop Synapse
>> Skippers.
>>
>> Now, every time I look down at my chest, it looks like it's breathing.
>> Same thing happens to my girl.
>>
>> I'm freakin out.
>>
>> b))merang



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 02:39:49 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:40:10 -0800
From: Drakonis Darkheart <drakonis@mindless.com>
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Organization: DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS
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fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> 
> Happy birthday natasha(jan 26)
> 
>         ><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
>                 foolish fish

Hehehehe eventhough I don't know any of you : ( Happy bday Natasha : )

-- 
Drakonis Darkheart - GABBERS OF THE WORLD UNITE !!!

DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS http://home.earthlink.net/~drakonis/index.htm

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 02:41:43 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:41:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Reagan Reid <raygun@value.net>
To: Kalidosope <Kalidosope@aol.com>
cc: OKELLY@peddie.org, Sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: All Aquarius Read This!
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On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Kalidosope wrote:

> For the few who requested the info on Aquarius here you go!
> 
> 
> Beneficial Foods: Pomegranates
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
         uh! yuck!!.....gross!!!    

    


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 02:44:14 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What are skippers??
To: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Cc: "Smith, Guy" <smithg@segasoft.com>
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---"Smith, Guy" <smithg@segasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Just wondering what it is, what it does. Any info would be appreciated
> W/Love&Harmony
> Guy
> 
> 




well, synapse skippers (aka electric lolipops aka phorward) were
supposedly developed by the national institute of mental health in
conjunction with the pentagon.  it was designed as a stimulant to give
to soldiers - a bit like speed, but of variable duration.  not
necessarily to keep you up for days, but rather to speed up one's
reflexes for the duration.  however, there were side effects.  at
government approved doses, the drug functioned as expected.  but when
large amounts of the drug were taken, the test subjects reported
feelings of euphoria as well as pleasant, colorful hallucinations that
somehow tied in with the heightened awareness of sexual pleasure and
increased libido.  nimh dropped the project immediately.

however, according to sketchy rumor and legend, the cia's esp division
(created in response to the russian's research into that area starting
in the fifties) took over the project due to a third side effect -
test subjects were able to predict the future with surprising
accuracy.  the drug was pulled from the market, the scientists
involved disappeared, and the formula was lost.  until it was leaked
by one of those scientists, who, after escaping the us, surfaced
briefly in guatamala, released the formula to a handful of surprised
journalists, multi-national corporate reps, and several stoned
backpackers, and then disappeared again.

for a while there was a market for it in non-us aligned countries like
iraq, from where it filtered into places like turkey up until the
early 90's.  but eventually it was stamped out over there as well. 
however, apparently there are still some old hippies floating around,
jealously guarding the secret formula, and "spreading the faith"...

well, that's what i heard, anyway...

-messiah









  




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 02:44:24 1998
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From: "adama" <adama@magicarts.com>
To: <fish1111@pacbell.net>, "Starchild" <dreamer@ziplink.net>
Cc: "Rave Friends" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: i done too much   (NRR)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:39:43 -0800
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That's why you should always take them with a little Ginger. That way your
seamen will come to rescue you.

Har har!

Adam


-----Original Message-----
From: Starchild <dreamer@ziplink.net>
To: fish1111@pacbell.net <fish1111@pacbell.net>
Cc: Rave Friends <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: i done too much (NRR)


>Don't know much about skippers... however I have heard a rumor that if you
>take them in combination with a gilligan (this mixture is known as a
>"re-run"), you will have a real nightmare of a trip in which you imagine
>you are stranded on an uncharted desert isle with a bunch of weirdos... the
>brain-rotting effects can last for years.
>
>Luv & laughs,
>                                <<< Starchild >>>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 04:08:31 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: brian@hyperreal.org, faust@grift.com
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Hi all!  ]=}

 Brian is a very wise individual and heeding his advice is highly 
recommended.

 Here is another reason why; On a private email list (devoted to 
entheogens) that primarily talked about entheogens (visonary plants), 
there was a threat by Dan Lundgreen (sp?) (our state attorney general) 
to arrest several members of the list (and list moderator and computer 
owner for where the list lived) on conspiracy charges. This meant that 
*anyone* who had comunicated (on the list mentioned) about any illegal 
substances was vulnerable to arrests and search warrents (this includes 
your hard drive folks!).

 Please be careful and *please* respect others on this list in regards 
to your subject matter.


>> p.s. - remember, all your posts are being ARCHIVED for all time in >> 
a rather
>> PUBLIC place.  You might feel fine and dandy hiding behind your    >> 
hotmail.com
>> or geocities.com accounts, but so did that Navy sailor on AOL.
>
>Somehow I think *this* is the reason for the sudden moderation        
>announcement ...
>toprotect people from themselves basically.


hugz,

Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 04:11:53 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:17:57 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> 
> At 02:41 AM 1/26/98 -0800, pj fuzzy wrote:
> >As for me personally I get sick of the old-
> >you're off topic posts if it weren't for the new
> >threads one might as well call this or any other list
> >S.O.S.org you figure it out because really how many
> >times can one read
> >"props out to my man dj ___"
> >or
> >"that party was so slamming, phat beats yada yada yada"
> 
> Point definitely taken, for me it's just a matter of degrees.  It's a fact
> that psychedelics are an (optional of course) part of the rave scene, and
> so some discussion is fine; but when it comes down to speculation as to
> what an elephant tranquilizer and a methamphetamine will do when combined,
> there are really (IMO) better places to ask that question.
> 
>         Brian
I was asking for reports on this experience, not what they would do. I
couldn't find any reports of this on Lyceaum or Hyperreal. Next time I
will just specualte or assume and not ask for the truth.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 04:13:59 1998
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What are Electric Lollipop Synapse Skippers???
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Peter Sandifer wrote:
> 
> a couple of weeks ago me and my girl ate some Electric Lollipop Synapse
> Skippers.
> 
> Now, every time I look down at my chest, it looks like it's breathing.
> Same thing happens to my girl.
> 
> I'm freakin out.
> 
> b))merang

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 04:26:18 1998
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Would this drug be classified as pyschedelic or stimulant? 
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

messiah wannabe wrote:
> 
> ---"Smith, Guy" <smithg@segasoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > Just wondering what it is, what it does. Any info would be appreciated
> > W/Love&Harmony
> > Guy
> >
> >
> 
> well, synapse skippers (aka electric lolipops aka phorward) were
> supposedly developed by the national institute of mental health in
> conjunction with the pentagon.  it was designed as a stimulant to give
> to soldiers - a bit like speed, but of variable duration.  not
> necessarily to keep you up for days, but rather to speed up one's
> reflexes for the duration.  however, there were side effects.  at
> government approved doses, the drug functioned as expected.  but when
> large amounts of the drug were taken, the test subjects reported
> feelings of euphoria as well as pleasant, colorful hallucinations that
> somehow tied in with the heightened awareness of sexual pleasure and
> increased libido.  nimh dropped the project immediately.
> 
> however, according to sketchy rumor and legend, the cia's esp division
> (created in response to the russian's research into that area starting
> in the fifties) took over the project due to a third side effect -
> test subjects were able to predict the future with surprising
> accuracy.  the drug was pulled from the market, the scientists
> involved disappeared, and the formula was lost.  until it was leaked
> by one of those scientists, who, after escaping the us, surfaced
> briefly in guatamala, released the formula to a handful of surprised
> journalists, multi-national corporate reps, and several stoned
> backpackers, and then disappeared again.
> 
> for a while there was a market for it in non-us aligned countries like
> iraq, from where it filtered into places like turkey up until the
> early 90's.  but eventually it was stamped out over there as well.
> however, apparently there are still some old hippies floating around,
> jealously guarding the secret formula, and "spreading the faith"...
> 
> well, that's what i heard, anyway...
> 
> -messiah
> 
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 04:31:35 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, rudir@aimnet.com
Subject: Re: lightseed review ...
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Hi all (again)!  ]=}

>Lightseed turned out to be nicer than i expected ... 

 Kewel!!

>i am not a major fan of
>trance 

 There was a lot of different music there... jungle, house, techno, even 
a little Goa (gasp!) in addition to trance.


>. i am not much of a trance critic but the last
>DJ that was spinning on the third floor in the early morning tore it up 
...

 I believe that was Anon.

>
>the first floor was fairly disappointing as the music was not loud 
enough and
>it was very damn hot in there ... also the DJs seemed to be having 
problems
>with the sound equipment ... the music on the third floor was also not 
loud
>enough for me unless i was standing right in front of the speakers 

 We had to keep audio levels within certain areas so as not to disturb 
the neighbors. It still was measuring 120 DB SPL in the jungle room and 
the techno/trance room (third floor).



>the party was supposed to end at 6am (was it ???)

 Yes but people kept dancing and the DJ's had more records so...

 Really happy to hear the positive responses to LightSeeds party!  :) 
Now it can be told that we went through 4 or 5 venues in a week (permit 
problems) and only secured our location on Friday night/Sat morning. Our 
walkthrough was at noon Saturday and we started setting up at about 
4:30, 5ish.

 MAJOR props to the LightSeed crew!!!!! Because they hung in there the 
party happened. More props to the various crews who did an amazing job 
of creating a party space in about 5 hours!!  :)

hugz,


Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 04:57:48 1998
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Hup!  ]=}


>  We had a great time in the 
>jungle room. 

 Farm trout!!  :) We (Dionysus Dreams) did the decor for the Jungle 
room. The DJ's were really happy as they felt (for once) that they had a 
good room and were getting the respect they (finally) deserve. No more 
camo nets with no lighting for the junglists!


  
>As I first walked in, the DJ bumped his rekkids and the music cut
>out!  Very unprofessional! 

 Well, it *may* not have been the DJ's fault. Due to our late set up 
time (see earlier post for why) there was some trouble accounting for 
the bouncy wood floors (great to dance on BTW!!) and the table needles. 
I *really* feel for Ethan as even with 20 feet of space cleared in front 
of his tables there was still major skipping. The system had to be 
turned off (after Etans set) and the tables partially suspended from the 
stacks. Unfortunately there was no ceiling hooks to hang the coffin 
from). Greg Sandler did a very nice job of picking things up from there 
once the sound was back on.

hugz,

Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 05:06:25 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:02:25 -0800
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: What are skippers??
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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At 08:32 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
>Would this drug be classified as pyschedelic or stimulant? 

What more do we have to do, set the date to April 1?

Watch out for that new drug on the market, "W".  It's lethal in large
quantities, and there's a fierce drug war taking place between the cities
of Los Angeles and the inland desert communities over it.

http://www.hyperreal.org/drugs/humor/FAQ-W

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 05:25:25 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:14:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: What are skippers??
To: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
cc: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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I think this is related to that new chemical compound "Hydrogen Dioxide" 
that I saw some protests about when I was in school... I hear that stuff 
is everyhwere!!


On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Brian Behlendorf wrote:

> At 08:32 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
> >Would this drug be classified as pyschedelic or stimulant? 
> 
> What more do we have to do, set the date to April 1?
> 
> Watch out for that new drug on the market, "W".  It's lethal in large
> quantities, and there's a fierce drug war taking place between the cities
> of Los Angeles and the inland desert communities over it.
> 
> http://www.hyperreal.org/drugs/humor/FAQ-W
> 
> 	Brian
> 
> 
> --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
> "Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
> a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 05:53:06 1998
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From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: "SFRavEs Mailing List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "Deepfog" <deepfog@hooked.net>
Cc: <dr-gti@batnet.com>
Subject: Re: ME with Green Hair?  ME at Lightseed?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:34:18 -0800
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Deepfog,

sorry bout that ... for some reason i thought the green hair guy was deepfog
... dunno why exactly ... well i do have an ID for the green hair guy - his
name is Collin ... hey dude !!

actually Collin didnt attend lightseed either ...

also hey chris !!!

peace,

Rudi

-----Original Message-----
From: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
To: SFRavEs Mailing List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Cc: dr-gti@batnet.com <dr-gti@batnet.com>
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 2:40 AM
Subject: ME with Green Hair? ME at Lightseed?


>Now, who's spreading nasty rumors.
>
>Sorry, I did not attend lightseed.
>
>Boring old me, I haven't been to a ravE since...you don't want to know.
>
>But I have no green hair, in fact I have no green hair.  Nope.
>
>But you all should say hi to my friend-ola Chris, because
>
>1.  He's cool
>2.  He has a GTI
>3.  He has a Newton
>4.  He finally went to a real ravE this weekend, I think.  Did you go, Chris.
>
>You better have, I'm plugging you in front of a lot of people.  Please tell
>me you went.
>
>well, I'm going to mosey off to bed sometime here.
>
>bye!
>
>dEEp
>
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 06:14:35 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:09:39 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP:PHUNCKATECK ONE-OFF SERIES!!
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They've kicked us out....but were not down!!  8}~


        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  
                                   * WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 4TH *
                                   * PHUNCKATECK LOUNGING IT...*
                                                        *
                                           DJs: JASON MOUSE
                                                  ABSTRACT
                                                     SAGE
                                                      NOEL
                                                       UFO
                                                         *
                                        location: VELVET LOUNGE
                                         443 BROADWAY ST, S.F.
                                       btwn. MONTGOMERY & KEARNY
                                                         *
                                                    9PM-2AM
                                                   21+ (sorry!)
                                                     5 bones
                                                         *
                             INFO/BOOKING LINE: 415.331.1500 ext.160
             =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

P.S. Thanx to all those that came out to the B-day bash @ THE TOP last
Saturday!!
packed full o drunkards.....ahhh the good ole dayz...

Hope to see you out...

PHUNCKATECK

*Music is life, the rest is just filler*

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 06:21:34 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:19:30 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: more Dr.Suess
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 WHAT IF DR. SEUSS WROTE COMPUTER TECH MANUALS?

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
And the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
And the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
Then the socket packet pocket has an error to report!

If your cursor finds a menu item followed by a dash,
And the double-clicking icons put your window in the trash,
And your data is corrupted 'cause the index doesn't hash,
Then your situation's hopeless, and your system's gonna crash!

If the label on your cable on the gable of your house,
Says the network is connected to the button on your mouse,
But your packets want to tunnel to another protocol,
That's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall.

And your screen is all distorted by the side effects of gauss,
So your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse,
Then you may as well reboot and go out with a bang,
"Cause as sure as I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang!

When the copy of your floppy's getting sloppy on the disk
And the micro-code instructions cause unneccessary RISC
Then you have to flash your memory and you'll want to RAM your ROM
Quickly turn off your computer and be sure to tell your mom!

                                  luv and hugz,
                                                    Carl 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 06:42:38 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:42:19 EST
To: unclenoa@netcom.com, brian@hyperreal.org
Cc: goodvibe@geocities.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What are skippers??
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yeah that hydrogen dioxide is terriable!! its a major component in acid rain,
it can kill you if you inhale it, it contributes to erosion, makes the brakes
on your car less effective, and is found in tumors of terminal cancer
patients...sheesh doesn't sound to great to me! no wonder thoses people are
protesting it!!! im gunna go swimming...
lots of love
JiL :o)

uncle noah wrote:
>>I think this is related to that new chemical compound "Hydrogen Dioxide" 
that I saw some protests about when I was in school... I hear that stuff 
is everyhwere!!<<

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 06:49:34 1998
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any of you that like some good 4am-7am music should find this record.  it's
a very good thing, especially since it has 2 different versions.

it's making me sit at the edge of this seat as i write this to you people.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 06:50:43 1998
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To: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>,
  "SFRavEs Mailing List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
From: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: ME with Green Hair?  ME at Lightseed?
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no problem.  actually ole chris didn't end up going either, but I am sure
ye will be out soon if someone as well as me tells him what's going on this
weekend.  there should be a seperate sfraves calendar that has stuff for
only this weekend.  that would be cool, wouldn't it?  =]

At 5:34 AM -0000 01/27/1998, Rudi Rughoonundon wrote:
>Deepfog,
>
>sorry bout that ... for some reason i thought the green hair guy was deepfog
>... dunno why exactly ... well i do have an ID for the green hair guy - his
>name is Collin ... hey dude !!
>
>actually Collin didnt attend lightseed either ...
>
>also hey chris !!!
>
>peace,
>
>Rudi
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Deepfog <deepfog@hooked.net>
>To: SFRavEs Mailing List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>Cc: dr-gti@batnet.com <dr-gti@batnet.com>
>Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 2:40 AM
>Subject: ME with Green Hair? ME at Lightseed?
>
>
>>Now, who's spreading nasty rumors.
>>
>>Sorry, I did not attend lightseed.
>>
>>Boring old me, I haven't been to a ravE since...you don't want to know.
>>
>>But I have no green hair, in fact I have no green hair.  Nope.
>>
>>But you all should say hi to my friend-ola Chris, because
>>
>>1.  He's cool
>>2.  He has a GTI
>>3.  He has a Newton
>>4.  He finally went to a real ravE this weekend, I think.  Did you go, Chris.
>>
>>You better have, I'm plugging you in front of a lot of people.  Please tell
>>me you went.
>>
>>well, I'm going to mosey off to bed sometime here.
>>
>>bye!
>>
>>dEEp
>>
>>
>>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 07:05:31 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:59:02 EST
To: Kalidosope@aol.com, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org, OKELLY@peddie.org,
  Sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re:  All Aquarius Read This!
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I have always thought that the birthstone of Pisces was "Aquamarine", not
Bloodstone????   Which one is accurate?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 07:10:45 1998
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From: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "'socal-raves@ucsd.edu'" <socal-raves@ucsd.edu>
Subject: BSP: a quick question re: stargazeII CDs
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:14:17 -0800
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I know that most of the peeps who were at stargaze2 have told me that
they
are interested in getting their own copies of the music that night...
but we're getting
closer to taking these things to get burned, cut, and/or produced... how
many of you
out there also want copies?  Some of you have emailed me but if we get
more we might
be able to save on costs.    We're trying to get a good idea of interest
to see if
we can handle the burning ourselves or if we have to go to a mastering
place... we're 
planning burning regular audio cd's as the final product from the mp3s
we got.  So far
they sound GREAT!

The approx 7 CD set will contain the complete live performance of (in
order)

Zza (SF Raves)
StillWind (Fuz-E Productions)
Radley Marx (Elemental, Seismic)
Kurt Arnulnd (Mind Resonation sequence on his 303 etc)
Andy W (BBQ & Beats)

We're finishing the mp3s right now...  please email me privately with
your level of interest (how
Many you'd be seeking)  then I can determine what the approx cost is
going to be.  

Returning you now to your regularly scheduled program...  

PS Happy thought for the day:  I saw a bumper sticker this weekend that
said
"Meter Maids Eat Their Young!".... 

bwahahahaha!

gEoff ;)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 07:22:21 1998
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From: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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 <Pine.LNX.3.96.980125143419.26924A-100000@linux.announce.co m>
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>>Psychedelics alter your abilities at perceiving reality PERMANENTLY! It is
>>one of the great things about them (for some of us), It's what Jimi sang
>>about in the 60's when he asked the question "Are you experienced?" For
>>some people this is a scary though and if you find this to be so, then you
>>should not do them.
>
>Jimi Hendrix is dead.  He experienced himself right into the grave.


Yes and he choked to death on his own vomit after drinking and doing
barbituates. Not from Psychedelics.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 07:52:12 1998
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To: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>
cc: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Geoff White wrote:

> >>Psychedelics alter your abilities at perceiving reality PERMANENTLY! It is
> >>one of the great things about them (for some of us), It's what Jimi sang
> >>about in the 60's when he asked the question "Are you experienced?" For
> >>some people this is a scary though and if you find this to be so, then you
> >>should not do them.
> >
> >Jimi Hendrix is dead.  He experienced himself right into the grave.
> 
> 
> Yes and he choked to death on his own vomit after drinking and doing
> barbituates. Not from Psychedelics.

You're right Geoff. Psychedelics aren't known for their
death-by-choking-on-your-own-vomit potential. I think they are more known
for their flying-off-a-building potential. Or was it the
playing-in-traffic-on-the-freeway potential(friend of a friend died this
way?)

In any case, the impression that I got from John's post was that he
felt Jimi Hendrix died because of his inability to recognize his own
limits, a point that I would agree with.  

I have no doubt that many of the immature and downright stupid people in
this world(regardless of whatever "scene" they associate themselves with) 
will continue to guzzle down as many drugs and combination of drugs that
they can shove into their bodies(or afford.) Excuse me if I don't cry when
I hear they have died, or end up in a mental institute.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 08:14:41 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What are skippers??
To: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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oh, i wouldn't go so far as to say that.  i mean, yeah, on one hand
it's pretty damned hard to resist once you've tried it.  but then on
the other hand it's so rare to score it at all addiction isn't really
too big of an issue.  i admit i did it pretty much every night i was
in turkey - the morning after is actually pretty pleasant, and you
rarely wake up alone.  but once my visa was up, i couldn't get the
stuff anymore.  withdrawal only lasted a few days, sorta like a mild
fever and general grumpyness more than anything else.  that and the
chest thing.

actually, i'm pretty hyped to hear it's surfacing in sf.  just where
did you score this stuff, peter?  feel free to respond privately.  i'd
trade for some alpha-1... ;-)

-mw



---megan hug <megan@medialive.com> wrote:
>
> man...  
> 	you just _don't_ want to know!
> 
> 
> don't even think about trying 'em...
> 	once you do... you'll  stick  to 'em forever!
> 
> At 01:48 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Smith, Guy wrote:
> >Just wondering what it is, what it does. Any info would be
appreciated
> >W/Love&Harmony
> >Guy
> >
> >
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 08:53:36 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, mayer@netcom.com
From: Mike Wertheim <mikew@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Superfly/Curtis Mayfield/soundtrack by womack 
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If you like "Hell's Party", go out and get the CD "Spiritual Tracks Vol 1"
(on Outland Records from the Netherlands, catalog number "TRIP001CD").

It's a DJ mix CD that consists of one slamming house track after another,
including the Glam "Hell's Party" track -- amazing track selection and
amazing mixing.  It's by far the best DJ mix CD that I own, easily
surpassing the Garth, Spun, DJ Dan, Doc Martin and DJ Tracy mix CDs, which
are some of my other favorites.

"Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com> wrote:
> I personally think it's time to play "name that rave curtis mayfield
> sample" -- i hereby start this game with the following song, which
> samples the vocal from Mayfield's "if there's hell below, we're all
> gonna go":
> 	Glam -- Hell's Party (DJ Ricci Mix).
>
> (it's a really good song -- which is surprising because it's kinda
> trancy sounding.)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 08:54:12 1998
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From: "bABy HueY" <poobear@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: SRR:A Search for Pisces?
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:53:38 GMT
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You may be getting old but, my Cancerian ass is going to be 
twenty...five months from now...  How are all the Pisceans holden up out 
there anyhoo?  Some advice, try not to get in the way of yourself
(I can coment, both of my parents are crazy, oops, I mean Pisces)  :P
Just kidding I love you people

geesh...anyone wanna know how emotional my family is? 
2 pisces
twin Cancers + my dog, Fang, is a cancer
my other dog is a moron who thinks her right paw is a chew toy or 
something...FYI like you give a crap

& Beth, have I ever told you that you kick ass!!!

Love,
Danny

>Hi Jeremy,
>
>I'm a Pisces!!!  My bday is Feb. 20th.  I'm going to be...  old.  =)
>
>Love,
>Beth
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 11:09:14 1998
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Hey peeps,

  I am just starting to do this realAudio debauchery.
My Djing is sucking for the moment as well but,
I just wanted some feedback on a 15 min dealie I made:

http//:www.electronica-records.com

Has anyone done a whole lot of this stuff?
I read the suggestions from realAudio. How are
people making 1 hour sets? (straight from hard drive?)....
Anyone done any  low pass filter trickagio?

N



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 14:53:13 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:56:25 -0800
To: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
Cc: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 11:28 PM -0800 1/26/98, Geoff White wrote:
>>>Psychedelics alter your abilities at perceiving reality PERMANENTLY! It is
>>>one of the great things about them (for some of us), It's what Jimi sang
>>>about in the 60's when he asked the question "Are you experienced?" For
>>>some people this is a scary though and if you find this to be so, then you
>>>should not do them.
>>
>>Jimi Hendrix is dead.  He experienced himself right into the grave.
>
>
>Yes and he choked to death on his own vomit after drinking and doing
>barbituates. Not from Psychedelics.

Hmmm onme can only wonder did is expanded mindset help him as he became
experienced?

Fact is he couldn;t handle his drugs and died from the abuse of them.  Next
time try to find a living role model that exemplified the spirit you speak
so fondly of.

Most that you would use are quite dead.  That includes Leary.

Later,
John

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 17:05:17 1998
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Anybody know where this substance can be procured, or if there is a "recipe"
anywhere.


kbOOM

Noah Apodaca wrote:

> You folks gotta get into s.  It's 100% legal and it's a lot of fun.  It's
> all the rage in SoCal. :)
>
> check out
> www.surrealrecords.com/s.html




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 17:14:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:15:23 -0800
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From: Ethan Miller <ethan@bass-station.com>
Subject: Re: Lightseed...
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At 8:57 PM -0800 1/26/98, Ran D. Dreams wrote:

>I *really* feel for Ethan as even with 20 feet of space cleared in front
>of his tables there was still major skipping.

Major skipping doesn't even *begin* to describe the situation. Total mayhem
is more like it. I couldn't even CUE a fergin record; the needles were just
bouncing all over, even off the record. sheesh. oh well.

see ya
ethan



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 17:19:03 1998
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Subject: Re: All Aquarius Read This!
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I agree! I now feel that I've been misinformed all of my life ;) Although,
Bloodstone has a cool sound to it, (coming from an ex goth). Aquamarine is
much more in line with our sign.

bunny

Feathr333 wrote:

> I have always thought that the birthstone of Pisces was "Aquamarine", not
> Bloodstone????   Which one is accurate?




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 17:39:32 1998
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Birthstones go by month. They have nothing to do with the zodiac.

Aquamarine is for March.

Adam



-----Original Message-----
From: Feathr333 <Feathr333@aol.com>
To: Kalidosope@aol.com <Kalidosope@aol.com>; sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
<sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org>; OKELLY@peddie.org <OKELLY@peddie.org>;
Sfraves@hyperreal.org <Sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: All Aquarius Read This!


>I have always thought that the birthstone of Pisces was "Aquamarine", not
>Bloodstone????   Which one is accurate?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 17:43:05 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: i done too much (NRR)
To: a_sid_tst@hotmail.com
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Hey kbOOM,

Your shittn' me right pal I mean really. Proof
positive that Jerry Springer will never be out a job.

LL


---kbOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anybody know where this substance can be procured,
or if there is a "recipe"
> anywhere.
> 
> 
> kbOOM
> 
> Noah Apodaca wrote:
> 
> > You folks gotta get into s.  It's 100% legal and
it's a lot of fun.  It's
> > all the rage in SoCal. :)
> >
> > check out
> > www.surrealrecords.com/s.html
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 17:54:09 1998
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To: Ethan Miller <ethan@bass-station.com>
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... )
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Jan 98 09:15:23 PST."
             <v03110709b0f3c5fedd01@[206.100.149.122]> 
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 09:54:01 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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> Major skipping doesn't even *begin* to describe the situation. Total mayhem
> is more like it. I couldn't even CUE a fergin record; the needles were just
> bouncing all over, even off the record. sheesh. oh well.

It's time to start mixing with CD's!! :-)

So what do people out there think of the skip-proof-ness of the new
Pioneer CDJ-700's? The (now old) CDJ-500's do pretty well, 'cept if you
have 'em sitting on top of a bass-bin, or have the monitors firing
directly into them.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 18:02:30 1998
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From: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
cc: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Permanent Trails
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Definately.

Everyone knows how far they are meant to go. Some choose to ignore this
true feeling. Some follow it. Some are not meant to go as far, if not now,
if ever. We're all placed here for different purposes, with good
intensions. However the flow of consciousness, the physical world, and
life experiences changes our track... which is changed every moment a
thought process flows through your mind. Each time a "thought form" is
created.

Some people see things and can't register how to adjust. It's like taking
a picture and seeing all these new things... (some bad some good) and you
have no choice but to view this picture. because it's inside you. When
you're in a particular state, you're very open. You accept astral
information and process it within yourself. Once you wake up the next
morning you'll see things differently. But you have to realize that it's
your own doing. Your life will be seen through a different eye. Some
people can't handle this reality, because they see how fuqed everything
really is. But things can be fixed, and you can do it. But some poeple
delve in the darkness of their reality and can no longer function. So they
become street people, drug abusers, etc. What we must do is talk more (on
spiritual levels, in spiritual newsgroups and through e-mail) and share
our understandings. To increase our feeling of contentment and to realize
how powerful and beautiful we are. At this point we can trully change
things.

Don't let yourself slide into the easy bin... climb and become stronger..
and you'll realize how easy it is to climb into the bin with all the
colored balls and warm fuzzy bears and happy music.. :) Hehe... seriously.
You create your own life... this reality seen through two eyes... and felt
through a culmination of your conscious mind, subconscious mind, and
elements of the infinite dimensions that exist... which are not all
bad.... you have to swim into the deep pools of good energy and stay
there. become a resident... once you're there we won't let you go... and
when you're weak, we'll hold onto you and support you. But you ultimately
have to support yourself.... and believe in yourself... and believe in
what you want to do. And it will happen. If it's what you trully want.

** snip ** byroni brain extraction complete for this moment in the
infinence...  ;)

I can't wait for Love Affair.... aaah. :) 

Byroni

ps. Be sure to check out DJ BLOOM spinning some really lovey-dovey-discoy-
DEEP house... yeeeeees!

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:

> At 11:28 PM -0800 1/26/98, Geoff White wrote:
> >>>Psychedelics alter your abilities at perceiving reality PERMANENTLY! It is
> >>>one of the great things about them (for some of us), It's what Jimi sang
> >>>about in the 60's when he asked the question "Are you experienced?" For
> >>>some people this is a scary though and if you find this to be so, then you
> >>>should not do them.
> >>
> >>Jimi Hendrix is dead.  He experienced himself right into the grave.
> >
> >
> >Yes and he choked to death on his own vomit after drinking and doing
> >barbituates. Not from Psychedelics.
> 
> Hmmm onme can only wonder did is expanded mindset help him as he became
> experienced?
> 
> Fact is he couldn;t handle his drugs and died from the abuse of them.  Next
> time try to find a living role model that exemplified the spirit you speak
> so fondly of.
> 
> Most that you would use are quite dead.  That includes Leary.
> 
> Later,
> John
> 
> "Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
> Narcotics
> 
> 
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey... ..  . 

(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
emails... byroni@ccnet.com
websurfin... http://www.ccnet.com/~byroni
plane of existence... spiritual deep house
name of my cat... UNIX! ;)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 18:20:47 1998
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From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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Use is not equal to abuse.  Hendrix died because he mixed the wrong
drugs (there is also the theory that he was murdered, but that's a
whole other topic).  Remember, though, that this was back in the day
when the general consensus on drugs in general was that they are ALL
deadly and make you insane.  But, some people tried pot, and neither
died, nor went mad, so the question "What else are they lieing about?"
arose, leading to massive experimentation, esp by those with the 
money and connections (ie, rock stars).

Leary died of natural causes (perhaps accelerated by drug use, perhaps
slowed), not overdose.  He was ready to die, and had zero regrets
about his drug use, or what he told others about them.

There are a lot of people who said good things who are dead:
Plato, Diana, Shelley, Cobain, Lincoln, Darwin . . .  Are we to
discount everything they said merely because they passed on?
Or is the reason for their death the chief concern here?

Steve.

"There is a way of being useful without being used by old
men and their ideas."


> > >>Jimi Hendrix is dead.  He experienced himself right into the grave.
> > >
> > >
> > >Yes and he choked to death on his own vomit after drinking and doing
> > >barbituates. Not from Psychedelics.
> >
> > Hmmm onme can only wonder did is expanded mindset help him as he became
> > experienced?
> >
> > Fact is he couldn;t handle his drugs and died from the abuse of them.  Next
> > time try to find a living role model that exemplified the spirit you speak
> > so fondly of.
> >
> > Most that you would use are quite dead.  That includes Leary.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:01:59 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:51:44 -0800
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From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: Paging Drfuzzy...the love doctor is in
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At 03:57 PM 1/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
> So he says stop raving or it's over. I have been 
*****
guess you aren't quite the way he wants you yet...

getout,
-SolR



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:02:04 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:40:32 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: Jungle Party tonight in SAC
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At 02:38 PM 1/24/98 PST, you wrote:
>wantto go to a jungle party tonight in sacramento?
****
so what did you think Philip?

i had to cut out kinda early... there's a $3 thursday weekly at that
location that ususally  has a pretty decent turnout... 

i think the owner is planning on spreading it to thursday and fridays....
since they have been picking up... the first couple were dope, there were a
couple in the middle there that had competition... now the location is
getting known....  people are showing up, and it's hella fun...  Papa
Tony's next door... and the venue is a coffee shop/cyber cafe...  7-11 a
stone's throw for smokes and whatever.... 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:16:21 1998
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To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: What are skippers??
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That's dihydrogen monoxide, I think, which happens to be HIGHLY lethal taken
in large quantities.
It is also found to be the primary agent in aging and diseases related to
aging.  Very toxic to cells.

Unfortunately, we can't go longer than 24 hours without it  ; )

Terri

>
>I think this is related to that new chemical compound "Hydrogen Dioxide" 
>that I saw some protests about when I was in school... I hear that stuff 
>is everyhwere!!
>
>
>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>
>> At 08:32 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
>> >Would this drug be classified as pyschedelic or stimulant? 
>> 
>> What more do we have to do, set the date to April 1?
>> 
>> Watch out for that new drug on the market, "W".  It's lethal in large
>> quantities, and there's a fierce drug war taking place between the cities
>> of Los Angeles and the inland desert communities over it.
>> 
>> http://www.hyperreal.org/drugs/humor/FAQ-W
>> 
>> 	Brian
>> 
>> 
>> --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
>> "Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
>> a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org
>> 
>
>


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:19:13 1998
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From: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
To: "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Cactus Sundays...
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:18:07 -0800
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No matter how much I hate the Cactus Club here in 
San Jose, I might be going soon on Sunday nights.
My friend is a DJ on the San Jose City Radio Station
and he is also a DJ at the Cactus club.  He is going
to be starting a Jungle night on Sundays.  I'm not sure
when it's going to happen but they already have an 
"electronic/techno" night.  But they usually just play
Industrial and goffik dance.  :(  but hopefully things are
looking up for us in the South Bay, even if it is at a terrible
club...  :)

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

Rick Fish
AirLink Communications, Inc.
www.airlink.com
rickf@airlink.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:26:05 1998
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From: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
To: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
cc: "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Cactus Sundays...
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fuck...if jungle be at cactus club, I'll live there each n every
sunday.

finally *somthing* cool to do down here.

-jimg/skoop

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Rick wrote:

> No matter how much I hate the Cactus Club here in 
> San Jose, I might be going soon on Sunday nights.
> My friend is a DJ on the San Jose City Radio Station
> and he is also a DJ at the Cactus club.  He is going
> to be starting a Jungle night on Sundays.  I'm not sure
> when it's going to happen but they already have an 
> "electronic/techno" night.  But they usually just play
> Industrial and goffik dance.  :(  but hopefully things are
> looking up for us in the South Bay, even if it is at a terrible
> club...  :)
> 
> Your Jedi Bitch,
> Jedi666Boy
> 
> Rick Fish
> AirLink Communications, Inc.
> www.airlink.com
> rickf@airlink.com
> 
> 

--skoop@slackers.net
--http://www.slackers.net/~skoop


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:33:07 1998
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Subject: Re: What are skippers?? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Jan 98 01:42:19 EST."
             <c4a78f1d.34cd81cd@aol.com> 
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 11:32:52 -0800
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> yeah that hydrogen dioxide is terriable!! its a major component in acid rain,
> it can kill you if you inhale it, it contributes to erosion, makes the brakes
> on your car less effective, and is found in tumors of terminal cancer
> patients...sheesh doesn't sound to great to me! no wonder thoses people are
> protesting it!!! im gunna go swimming...

I would imagine that Hydrogen Dioxide would be quite lethal, if you
could actually keep it stable long enough to actually consume it. The
extra O-1 would fiercly oxidize anything in sight, and it would
probably  happily snarfle up any spare H-1's hanging around. Can you
say free radicals? Sure you can.

However, I think you are talking about di-hydrogen oxide, which indeed
has all the properties you mention, and also has very nice solvent
and surfactant qualities.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:37:01 1998
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To: "Post Ravin' Bran \(tm\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date:	Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:32:12 -0700
From: "Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon" <frosting@mailexcite.com>
Message-ID: <OHLKEOPJBOHCAAAA@mailexcite.com>
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Where did all the South Bay coffee weeklies go?  I know why the old ones fell apart,
but where are the new ones?  Are there any plans to start another one?  Are we all
just waiting for Leviticus?  Does anyone need help starting one?  Aren't I full of
questions!!
>:)Amber
---
Push the big, red, candy-like button...



Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:38:48 1998
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Subject: Re: i done too much (NRR)
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If itz legal then what would the problem be. Except of course if this is
a big old joke and I'm the last one to get clued in about it. I have
been know to be a bit on the gullible side.

kbOOM

Layne Loomis wrote:

> Hey kbOOM,
>
> Your shittn' me right pal I mean really. Proof
> positive that Jerry Springer will never be out a job.
>




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:41:45 1998
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From: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
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Subject: Cactus Sundays... part 2
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The Jungle night may or may not be happening.  This is
preliminary.  It's not definate, yet.  He is DJ DJ on San Jose
City College radio that has a listening radius of about 10 feet.
But he spins at '80's night and Backlash too.  He's trying to 
set it up.  Hopefully it goes through...  :)  But like I said earlier..
It may not happen for a while.  I'll call him and see what's up.
It'd be great if it happened.  It'll bring some new people to the club.
I never go there because it's the same people all the time no 
matter what day it is...  Just dressed slightly different each night.

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

Rick Fish
AirLink Communications, Inc.
www.airlink.com
rickf@airlink.com

PS...  I'd love to go some night when it happens.  Anything
happening this weekend?  Maybe we could hook up again!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:44:07 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:43:18 -0800
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Sounds good to me...  Except they make bad coffee there at Leviticus.
but then again, I'd go for the people.  I don't drink coffee and they make
terrible hot cocoa!  :(

>Where did all the South Bay coffee weeklies go?  I know why the old ones fell 
apart,
>but where are the new ones?  Are there any plans to start another one?  Are we 
all
>just waiting for Leviticus?  Does anyone need help starting one?  Aren't I 
full of
>questions!!

Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

Rick Fish
AirLink Communications, Inc.
www.airlink.com
rickf@airlink.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:48:11 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: i done too much (NRR)
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---kbOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com> wrote:

> been know to be a bit on the gullible side.

No shit? hehehe sorry sir but if you believe in "s"
I gotta mean piece of property just west of S.F. that
I can sell ya' cheap - cheap. That was pretty funny
though thanks.

LL


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 19:49:11 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:35:14 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: NRR short/nearsighted, Aquarian, 25on28th
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>age.  I have horribly bad Myopia (near-sightedness) and have to wear
*****
yea, i have about 4 inches of clear vision... although i don't walk into
too many things  without my glasses on ...

by the way.. all you feb b-days... mine is tomorrow, can't we get through
January first... best wishes though. ["happy birthday" has proven to be
more of a jinx to me than anything]
Although being an Aquarius is perfect for me... January is a screwy month.
Gulf war, Challenger explosion, not to mention how many years my family
celebrated my b-day in conjunction with the Super Bowl... [don't like
football.] oops, guess i just did... mention it that is....

my point is, if there was going to be one when i began typing [i don't
think there was]

A----------C------------------------B
	^
	|
my point... no but seriously.... Febuary is coming up, and i'm considering
making some changes.. 25 is feeling like an important number, and i think i
need to get out for a couple years...  my sister is meeting me in Italy mid
99 to hit Greece, Italy, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, and
Scotland...

I'm just not happy where i am, doing what i'm doing. [working for an  ISP
in Sacto]... 

so... i think i'll just get a phone in Seattle at a friends, establish
residency, go to Europe for a year or  two, come back, move to Seattle, go
to Acadamy of Arts, and follow my  photojournalism, and art.

just  rambling, but  hey, i feel off kilter, and entitled today or
something.. like tomorrow will be different, so i have to say this today.

hugs everywhere, peace to all,
mua! love you guys!
-SolR


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 20:28:25 1998
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I've surely got to spend less time with my eyes glued to the CRT. It
seems to be having some long term effects on me brain.
That and I'm overly zealous for any novel psychoactive experiences.
Blather. Blather. Blather. Thanks for setting me straight.
Now about that property. Is it perchance in the mission???????  ;>

kbOOM


Layne Loomis wrote:

> ---kbOOM <a_sid_tst@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > been know to be a bit on the gullible side.
>
> No shit? hehehe sorry sir but if you believe in "s"
> I gotta mean piece of property just west of S.F. that
> I can sell ya' cheap - cheap. That was pretty funny
> though thanks.
>
> LL




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 20:28:37 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:14:18 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: All Aquarius Read This!
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At 08:16 PM 1/26/98 EST, you wrote:
>The Sign Of The Thinker
>Gemstone: Aquamarine
>Keywords: Independently, detachedly, unconventionally
>Rulers: The Eleventh House ( ideals, group involvements, friends,
>humanitarianism, hopes and wishes).
******
As i suppose it should, Aquarian info like this generally nails me
perfectly, although i was under the impression, that our stone was Garnet..
this is what i've thought/known for years...

it has only been  recently that i discovered a difference in opinion by
reading a new astrological sign book.  'sup with this?  what,  have i been
wrong all this time, have i been decieved?

i have this fabulous silver faeire ring where she's standing on a pretty
fat garnet, her knee broke, so i have to get it filled, but one of the
coolest things, is that it is an original  wax casting,  with a friggin
garnet in it, that has no significance to me if it's not my birthstone.
not that i won't wear it after i get her fixed....

anyway.. i feel wierd today, and i'm just thinking of stuff.
peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 20:35:43 1998
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This is not true...ethan was just wasted on skippers.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

--------------------------------------------------

Ethan Miller wrote:

> Major skipping doesn't even *begin* to describe the situation. Total mayhem
> is more like it. I couldn't even CUE a fergin record; the needles were just
> bouncing all over, even off the record. sheesh. oh well.
> 
> see ya
> ethan


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 20:41:39 1998
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cc: Ethan Miller <ethan@bass-station.com>,
  San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... )
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On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Niels P. Mayer wrote:

> 
> > Major skipping doesn't even *begin* to describe the situation. Total mayhem
> > is more like it. I couldn't even CUE a fergin record; the needles were just
> > bouncing all over, even off the record. sheesh. oh well.
> 
> It's time to start mixing with CD's!! :-)
> 
> So what do people out there think of the skip-proof-ness of the new
> Pioneer CDJ-700's? The (now old) CDJ-500's do pretty well, 'cept if you
> have 'em sitting on top of a bass-bin, or have the monitors firing
> directly into them.
> 

I find it intersting that the list's most enthusiastic supporter of CD
DJing tends to sound a bit like a broken record anytime someone mentions a
problem playing records at a party...

I'll use this analogy... there's a risk about a tiny needle staying in a
tiny groove.  Everyone in the room is aware how fragile that is... it's
like that renegade feeling when you know you might get busted at any
moment...

It's scary, but sometimes, it goes the whole night.  I like CDs, but they
take longer to cue... you can't see parts coming up... and I'm not saying
good or bad... I'd love to see more CD DJs spinning out, but people keep
picking up the vinyl. 

Are they sheep?  Maybe.  I started on CDs and prefer vinyl.

I feel I have more control.  It's like comparing two pairs of gloves...
one might be scientifically warmer, stronger, more flexible... but if the
other fits better, what do you do?

The benefits of CDs are adding up as technology makes them more and more
adapted to be a DJ tool, but in the end it's a matter of personal
preference.

Another Tastes Great, Less Filling thread...

We all know one thing... CDs have made several quantum leaps, while vinyl
stands still... eventually, Niels will probably be right, but for now I
can afford and prefer vinyl by a long shot. 

Peace,
AndyW


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 20:49:27 1998
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From: Laurence Y Maar <raver@mcl.ucsb.edu>
To: Dope.Fiends.List@spam-me.com
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      FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
  
 
      FROM: THE TREES
 
 
   StoP tHE LogGINg oR wE WiLl coNtInUE To KILl oNe CeleBrITY EacH WeEK.
   tHeRe ARe nO SkIinG "aCciDenTS".







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 21:00:30 1998
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From: "moki4u2c@hotmail.com" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: effects of computers on your brain
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>>>I've surely got to spend less time with my eyes glued to the CRT. It
seems to be having some long term effects on me brain.
That and I'm overly zealous for any novel psychoactive experiences.
Blather. Blather. Blather. Thanks for setting me straight.
Now about that property. Is it perchance in the mission???????  ;>>>

kbOOM>>>

Studies have shown that spending inordinate amounts of time in front of a
terminal can have deteriorating effects on your brain, e.g., induced
depression, grogginess, lethargy, etc.

I believe the study was conducted at Columbia Univ. some years ago.  Help me
out if this rings a bell.  But I heard of a negative (or positive, not sure
now) ions generator for like $150.00 that reverses the effects of the
harmful ions emitted by your computer.  Sorta makes you feel like being in a
fresh waterfall, at the beach, just after a rain, etc.

Has anyone else heard of this, cause I swear my computer messes with my moods
even though I have an anti-glare screen and all.  What's the dealio?  

BTW, Rob and Jason from Daddy's Records in Berkeley came here to Honolulu this
past weekend and spun at my friend's party.  Damn if I wasn't yellin' and
screamin' like a mad monk gone bad!  They brought a heavy dose of San Frandisco
and then some.  John Lemmon from Seattle tore shit up too.  I need a new pair
of dancing shoes 'cause I wore the coosh outta my shoes awready.  Any
recommendations?  

I thought you guys were talking about Skittles earlier, don't know what the
hell Skippers are and probably don't want to.  Aight den, I'm out like scout
with no doubt.  


DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hotmail.com
"...the music was our teacher...the DJ was our preacher..."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 21:13:33 1998
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Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... ) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Jan 98 12:41:20 PST."
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.980127123142.4094J-100000@atari> 
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 13:13:05 -0800
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> It's scary, but sometimes, it goes the whole night.  I like CDs, but they
> take longer to cue... you can't see parts coming up... and I'm not saying
> good or bad... I'd love to see more CD DJs spinning out, but people keep
> picking up the vinyl. 
> 
> Are they sheep?  Maybe.  I started on CDs and prefer vinyl.

I think it's that there's no outlet for CD DJ's to do their thing.
Let's say you're the only CD DJ at an event. Chances are they'll have
two 1200's and a mixer for all the other DJ's, so all the vinyl DJs
have to do is bring their records and play them. A CD DJ will need to
plug in his/her decks, which can be somewhat disruptive to the flow of 
DJs. Usually the sound will take on an additional muddle because you'll
be using the main mixer as a submixer, and most DJ mixers have horrible
fidelity.

Also, CD DJ decks are all very different. Even if you're at a club
where they have say, Denon DN2000F's, if you're used to mixing on
pioneer decks, you'll invariably hit some wrong buttons, or miscue, or
have other problems. This isn't the case w/ turntables because
everybody uses 1200's. I think now pioneer CDJ-500 or CDJ-700's are
getting standard enough that we might expect events to have two
turntables AND two CDJ's as well. I personally think this "ergonomics"
issue is very important to the CD DJ (could you imagine what it would
be like to get into a friends car and drive it if each car had a
different  arrangement of gas/clutch/brake/steering??)

> The benefits of CDs are adding up as technology makes them more and more
> adapted to be a DJ tool, but in the end it's a matter of personal
> preference.

This is absolutely the case. I prefer CD decks since I have lots of
CD's and not that much vinyl (well, unless you include old Cameo, Capt.
Beefheart, Devo, No Means No, Arethra F, Gentle Giant, and other LPs
that nobody would dance to.) It's also nice to be able to give a good
listen to various tracks on your car CD player or portable CD player
(while riding muni) instead of having to sit around waxin' and taxin'
your 12"'s at home. 

Further advantages:
	-- no cleaning, no warping, no wear, fewer worries about heat/humidity.
	-- easily throw on one-off tracks or weird samplings that
	   you've burned onto a CDR (I have a CDR).
	-- it's a lot cheaper to buy compilation CDs than it is to buy
	   12"'s. You can also play hard to find songs that you snarfle
	   off of other DJ's mix disks, and play mixes of mixes of mixes of
	   ... Granted, you can't get the latest white label on CDs currently
	   but I simply don't have the time/desire/money to listen to all
	   the latest crap. If the track is worthy, eventually, I'll hear it
	   on CD.

> We all know one thing... CDs have made several quantum leaps, while vinyl
>  stands still... eventually, Niels will probably be right, but for now I
> can afford and prefer vinyl by a long shot. 

Other than "user interface" to help DJs mix better, CD technology
improvements have pleateu'd... you pretty much can't get much better
than dual burr brown 20 bit D/A converters, 8x oversampling digital
filters, high-quality discrete or opamp output stages, laser playback
of the bitstream is reliable, skip-proof buffering from portables has
made it into the cdj700's, etc.

Next big improvement is with higher sample rates (96Ksample/second) and
more resolution (24 bits), but it'll be a while before such super
high-definition audio DVD's become commonplace.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 21:29:41 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:29:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... ) 
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
cc: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>, "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>,
  Ethan Miller <ethan@bass-station.com>,
  San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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What would really be neet-o is if there was like a 2-line text redout 
where you could write notes and see them when the CD plays... like you 
could program a spot in the song to trigger a little note to you saying 
"Breakdown in 16 measures" or something like that... It coudln't be that 
hard to do, could it?  

at that point, you would totally resolve that "seeing the music" issue in 
the whole CD vs. Vinyl debate.

-Uncle Noah
vinyl addict
:)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 21:39:52 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... ) 
To: Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com>, "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Cc: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>, "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>,
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Interesting theory Noah, but you can count the measures
by the readout already. Can't you Neils? I have no idea
but, I have tried to spin on these things and its not
easy.

Very true about the cost issue as well, I believe
availability as well. Your much more likely to get a
mix CD that has 2 or more playable tracks where as that
is almost never the case with vinyl. However, something
about the way vinyl feels under my fingers is very
magical and I don't think I could be persueded to
make the switch. Cool to watch and listen to though.

Layne





---Noah Apodaca <unclenoa@netcom.com> wrote:
>
> 
> What would really be neet-o is if there was like a
2-line text redout 
> where you could write notes and see them when the
CD plays... like you 
> could program a spot in the song to trigger a
little note to you saying 
> "Breakdown in 16 measures" or something like
that... It coudln't be that 
> hard to do, could it?  
> 
> at that point, you would totally resolve that
"seeing the music" issue in 
> the whole CD vs. Vinyl debate.
> 
> -Uncle Noah
> vinyl addict
> :)
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 22:19:19 1998
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From: laura@hyperreal.org
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... )
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I'm a recent convert to CDs.  Brian had been trying to get me off of
vinyl for about a year, and I kept resisting.  Then, I spent about two
weeks just working with some familliar tracks over and over, and now I
really like it.  

I agree with all the pluses Niels listed...and as for the problem of
not being able to "see" when there's going to be a breakdown:  well, for
me it's a matter of preparation.  I just have to listen to a track a few
times and note time-wise when the breakdown starts.  I guess what I'm
saying is that because there are no visual cues (like on vinyl) you are
forced to know a particular track a lot better before you use it.  On
the other hand, with vinyl you can pick up a new record, hear it (maybe)
once, and still be able to work it in without messing up too egregiously.

And as for you having to haul your CD rig around when you spin...I consider
that a plus!  There have been times when I've gotten to a party and
discovered that the mixer is yukky or one of the tables has a sort of
weird feel when you backspin or the needles are crummy...by bringing our
own there's "quality control" :-)

The most difficult aspect of switching over, for me, was re-learning how
to cue.  There's several different ways of thinking about it (on the
Pioneers), and it took me a while to find one that felt right to me.

My most favorite features?  Real-time looping and the flange effect on the
mixer!

Laura

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 22:22:09 1998
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From: "Stirling, Earl" <Earl.Stirling@kla-tencor.com>
To: "\(\(plurry pEEps\)\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
  "'epetzar@earthlink.net'" <epetzar@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: *SpUnDaE* last nite
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:23:00 -0800
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> ----------
> From: 	~e~l~e~n~a~[SMTP:epetzar@earthlink.net]
	<snip>
> hell of a time dancing in my Buffalos before you so generously did
> that
> ;) and to the boy who we stared at each other for way too long, GET
> UNSHY!! my guy friends look like bodyguards, but iz SINGLE! oh well
	<snip>

heck, maybe we should say, "follow your own advice?"  howcum us macho
dudes always gotta be the forward ones? *g*

dodger

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 22:25:27 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:17:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... )
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Well then that makes three of you so far that I can 
count. When can we expect a rockin' CD DJ party from
you kids? I wanna' see it action!!!

LL





---laura@hyperreal.org wrote:
>
> I'm a recent convert to CDs.  Brian had been trying
to get me off of
> vinyl for about a year, and I kept resisting. 
Then, I spent about two
> weeks just working with some familliar tracks over
and over, and now I
> really like it.  
> 
> I agree with all the pluses Niels listed...and as
for the problem of
> not being able to "see" when there's going to be a
breakdown:  well, for
> me it's a matter of preparation.  I just have to
listen to a track a few
> times and note time-wise when the breakdown starts.
 I guess what I'm
> saying is that because there are no visual cues
(like on vinyl) you are
> forced to know a particular track a lot better
before you use it.  On
> the other hand, with vinyl you can pick up a new
record, hear it (maybe)
> once, and still be able to work it in without
messing up too egregiously.
> 
> And as for you having to haul your CD rig around
when you spin...I consider
> that a plus!  There have been times when I've
gotten to a party and
> discovered that the mixer is yukky or one of the
tables has a sort of
> weird feel when you backspin or the needles are
crummy...by bringing our
> own there's "quality control" :-)
> 
> The most difficult aspect of switching over, for
me, was re-learning how
> to cue.  There's several different ways of thinking
about it (on the
> Pioneers), and it took me a while to find one that
felt right to me.
> 
> My most favorite features?  Real-time looping and
the flange effect on the
> mixer!
> 
> Laura
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 22:43:22 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:41:11 -0800
Subject:  BSP: Fiesta (Mad House!!)
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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					                         MAD  hoUsE



                		   	   Ethan                          Joe Rice          
                									

					                                      ElfLord


						Fat Tony

                                       Ted                                
 DjQ 




			              Live Performance by Baktun 13(New York)




            		       Forrest Green                   Pelican Boy          
    



				                                   spEakeR  (23)                 


			                           OPtic                    Peachfish          
         


                             		         Sunflowerfish



					                               JANUARY 30, 1998



                                          510.665.6524                


						                                           $5


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 22:44:48 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <24578e51.34ce5fbb@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:29:14 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: DRUM & BASS SITE...
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Check out the following DRUM & BASS site for all local goings on...


                        =====>http://www.bootybasscall.com<=====

props to Skylar...

OUT
PHUNKN3@aol.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 22:47:52 1998
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References: Your message of "Tue, 27 Jan 98 12:41:20 PST."            
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980127123142.4094J-100000@atari>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:49:00 -0800
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From: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... )
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>From Niels P. Mayer: (double >>'s are AndyW)

(portions I'm not directly replying to have been removed)

>Also, CD DJ decks are all very different. Even if you're at a club
>where they have say, Denon DN2000F's, if you're used to mixing on
>pioneer decks, you'll invariably hit some wrong buttons, or miscue, or
>have other problems. This isn't the case w/ turntables because
>everybody uses 1200's. I think now pioneer CDJ-500 or CDJ-700's are
>getting standard enough that we might expect events to have two
>turntables AND two CDJ's as well. I personally think this "ergonomics"
>issue is very important to the CD DJ (could you imagine what it would
>be like to get into a friends car and drive it if each car had a
>different  arrangement of gas/clutch/brake/steering??)

Eh, this happens with vinyl DJ's all the time, due to different mixers.
Rane, Biamp, Numark, GML, Blue, Pioneer, and models within those ranges all
have their own cueing and eq systems and crossfader nuances. When I've seen
DJ CD setups, they've almost always had their own mixer, and while I'm
aware of at least four CD DJ system manufacturers, it seems Pioneer and
Denon are the most widely used.


>> The benefits of CDs are adding up as technology makes them more and more
>> adapted to be a DJ tool, but in the end it's a matter of personal
>> preference.

Yep.


>Further advantages:
>	-- no cleaning, no warping, no wear, fewer worries about heat/humidity.

While not as susceptible, scratches do happen.


>	-- easily throw on one-off tracks or weird samplings that
>	   you've burned onto a CDR (I have a CDR).

Definitely a bonus. I'd love to have a lathe. =)


>	-- it's a lot cheaper to buy compilation CDs than it is to buy
>	   12"'s. You can also play hard to find songs that you snarfle
>	   off of other DJ's mix disks, and play mixes of mixes of mixes of
>	   ... Granted, you can't get the latest white label on CDs currently
>	   but I simply don't have the time/desire/money to listen to all
>	   the latest crap. If the track is worthy, eventually, I'll hear it
>	   on CD.

I'll have to quibble with this. B-sides and mixes don't often make it on to
comps and few indie dance labels put out CD singles.

I will grant that if an album or comp. does make it to CD it'll tend to
stay in print longer and be more widely available than the vinyl. (witness
Reload "A Collection of Short Stories" or 4 Hero "Parallel Universe")

>> We all know one thing... CDs have made several quantum leaps, while vinyl
>>  stands still... eventually, Niels will probably be right, but for now I
>> can afford and prefer vinyl by a long shot.

I'm sure vinyl made the same amount of progress in it's first 20 years as
well... Who knows, maybe laser tracking decks will filter down to the DJ
market. =)

Joe



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 22:57:38 1998
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		anyone up for some static tonight?


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 23:07:25 1998
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OF COURSE I AM!!!!
see ya guys there tonight.....heard it was techno night but not too sure.
I hope it is!

shira


On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, megan hug wrote:

> 
> 
> 		
> 		anyone up for some static tonight?
> 
> 

	




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 23:08:36 1998
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From: PHUNKN3 <PHUNKN3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b28b2ba.34ce6257@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:40:23 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: DRUM & BASS SITE...
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ooops....

I meant, 

                              http://www.bassbootycall.com

sorry (DOH!)  8}

PHUNKN3@aol.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 23:46:11 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
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Subject: BSP: My Homepage
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Hey all!

Well, I've added two new sections to my homepage, including my Raver page.
Feel free to take a look.  Have stuff about raves on your page?  Email me
your URL and I'll add you in as a link!


                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 23:50:58 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR: anybody heard?
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:52:42 -0800
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Just picked up a few CD's recently and I was wondering if anybody else had
checked them out already.
They are:

Hardesertrance - by DJ Brian
Coast To Coast - by DJ Micro

the first has a very hard edge sound to it, takes you on a journey
definitely.

the second is a funky breakbeat disc with a track (Boogie- by Avenging
Godfather of Disco) that smokes.

Anybody heard these yet or got any suggestions for further purchases of
music along this line

thanx 4 yor scubee snax

MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jan 27 23:51:04 1998
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From: Troy Sheets <tsheets@saturn5.com>
Message-Id: <199801261742.JAA18707@atari.saturn5.com>
Subject: [604] Sundance Films (fwd)
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Movies to look for... </troy>

--------------

I saw a couple of interesting films at Sundance, relevant to this group:

MODULATIONS, directed by Iara Lee (who previously directed SYNTHETIC
PLEASURES) is a documentary that "intersperses artful imagery with
talking-head interviews and party and club footage to examine the
historical development of electronic music and explore the philosophy of
its young audience." It featured interviews and/or snibbits of live
performances from virtually every major D.J. and musician in the field
(with the notable omission of Wendy Carlos). The emphasis was a little
heavy on the D.J. side, going into great detail about the development of
House music, versus Detroit Techo, Jungle, etc., and the D.J.'s and
producers who made it happen, including an analysis of the roles the
TB303 and TR606, 909 played in the development of this kind of music.
However, care was taken to feature extensive interviews with Bob Moog
(who also plays a gospel song on a Theremin), along with Stockhausen and
several other electronic and music concrete pioneers. I would highly
recommend it if you're really into the D.J. scene, although I was hoping
for a little more Kraftwerk and that type of thing. The highlight for me
was an extremely pretentious interview with F.S.O.L. via the internet,
where they claimed that they were offering themselves up as sacrificial
lambs in the progress of music and then hung up. I'm not sure what's
happening with distribution--if it's like her last film, they'll truck
it around to the theaters themselves, so you might have to watch
carefully for it. (I heard something about the BBC doing something with
it as well, but I'm not sure if that's really happening.)

Another notable film was Pi (actually, the Greek symbol, which I don't
have on my keyboard). It's a very strange, hallucinogenic depiction of
one man's "obsession to construct a theoretical, numerical order out of
chaos in an attempt to decipher a pattern to both the stock market and
existense as a whole." Very trippy. The soundtrack is amazing, featuring
intense, analog (Minimoog) throbbing sounds, as well as liberal
sprinklings of Autechre, Orbitial and the like. Live picked it up for
distribution, so it should be coming to a theater near you some day in
the near future. Highly recommended, particularly if you like your films
a little on the ERASERHEAD side.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tsheets@saturn5.com                        <- You have found me   
tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com                  <- Official Use Only
http://www.saturn5.com/tsheets/            <- Instant Content
troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com               <- Inquire Within


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 00:47:20 1998
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If you urinate when swimming in a South American river, you
may encounter the candiru. Drawn to warmth, this tiny fish
is known to follow a stream of urine to its source, swim
inside the body, and flare is barbed fins. It will remain
firmly embedded in the flesh until surgically removed.

;)
N


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 00:47:29 1998
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Subject: Re: nrr : age of aquarius
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Hey happy birthday Matt on the 27th.  Yes I think we finally got those
aggressive little fishies to back down.  Water always finds away around
obstacles :)
My bday is the 2nd, Groundhog's day.  ha.  LaurenG.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 00:54:41 1998
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References: Your message of "Tue, 27 Jan 98 12:41:20 PST."            
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980127123142.4094J-100000@atari>
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To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... )
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Niels,

Well, I don't know if they have quite pleatue'd.

I'd like to think that there is a place in the future for some algorithm
that allows each sampled bit or combination of bits could be made to
emulate a needle scratching across the sound to provide scratching.
I think that this is totally possible and will be available in the future.
It may not be as geniune as the real thing, but at least the sound will be
available.

BTW, I love my CDJ-500 mixer and CD stuff by Pioneer. I feel liberated by
them in that I can spend more time thinking about the sound and mix
happening rather than worry so much about pictch control. The Cue option
alone allows more freedom than the vinyl option which forces you to waste
valuable seconds.
I have spent many hours archiving my vinyl onto CD and am finding immense
joy mixing them.
My ideal set up is having two CD's with one turntable for extensibility
(y'know - that extra track that just came out that you don't have the time
to port to CD).

I had the greatest experience recently. I had one of my excellent DJ
friends (Tosh) hook up his 1200's to my Pioneer mixer through his mixer. He
provided scratches, vocals, extra beat beds and samples over my beat beds.
It was awesome sounding and it makes me want to burn that experience 'raw'
onto a CD for posterity. We are both club DJs with tons 'o experience and I
turned him onto house back in '91 or so (from being a strictly hip hop
dancehall sound), so it was exciting seeing him get off on the thickly
textured sound.

Anyway, I'm all up on having a "Digital Only" Mix fest. Let me know. I'm in!

BTW, I got into a discussion about the quality of sound coming outta these
things. I feel that since most house is digital from the onset (sampled and
tracked, etc.) that it really doesn't matter that it ends up on CD.
16 or 20 bit will be as good as it gets I would imagine whether it is
pressed onto vinyl or not.

:)



>
>Other than "user interface" to help DJs mix better, CD technology
>improvements have pleateu'd... you pretty much can't get much better
>than dual burr brown 20 bit D/A converters, 8x oversampling digital
>filters, high-quality discrete or opamp output stages, laser playback
>of the bitstream is reliable, skip-proof buffering from portables has
>made it into the cdj700's, etc.
>
>Next big improvement is with higher sample rates (96Ksample/second) and
>more resolution (24 bits), but it'll be a while before such super
>high-definition audio DVD's become commonplace.

rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 01:06:25 1998
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From: laura@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... )
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Rob wrote:
>Anyway, I'm all up on having a "Digital Only" Mix fest. Let me know. I'm in!

Oooh, ooh, me too!  
 
>BTW, I got into a discussion about the quality of sound coming outta these
>things. I feel that since most house is digital from the onset (sampled and
>tracked, etc.) that it really doesn't matter that it ends up on CD.
>16 or 20 bit will be as good as it gets I would imagine whether it is
>pressed onto vinyl or not.

Here's my take on the situation:  once you've played a particular
slab o' vinyl 25 times (with that really large and heavy DJ needle)
and scratched over it and gotten dust in it it's not the same anymore.  Also, 
many soundsystems are overdriven or not properly EQ-ed.  If you add these two 
factors together, I don't think it matters a whit whether you're working off 
of vinyl or CDs or DAT (a la Goa Gil).  (Regular cassette tape, though, is 
probably still yickky no matter how you cut it.)

Laura
(303 Aceeeid Queen)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 01:22:22 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:05:17 EST
To: matt@saturn5.com
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In a message dated 98-01-26 18:22:39 EST, you write:

<< my birthday is january 27, tomorrow.  any others out there with birthdays
 coming up REAL soon? >>


     LIke right next to Vallentine's Day?? Can We all go to Chuck *E*
Cheeses?? OH PLEASE OH PLEASE SAY YES!! A BIG SFR PARTY IN THE BALL PIT!!
C'mon, puh-leeze!!!

      hugs n'stuff,
        'trice the target team member tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 01:23:59 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:30:05 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Yeah Mee 2! My Birthday is February 1st.
Paul*E*Wog

TeKnODiVa wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-26 18:22:39 EST, you write:
> 
> << my birthday is january 27, tomorrow.  any others out there with birthdays
>  coming up REAL soon? >>
> 
>      LIke right next to Vallentine's Day?? Can We all go to Chuck *E*
> Cheeses?? OH PLEASE OH PLEASE SAY YES!! A BIG SFR PARTY IN THE BALL PIT!!
> C'mon, puh-leeze!!!
> 
>       hugs n'stuff,
>         'trice the target team member tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 01:30:48 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:30:24 -0800
From: Drakonis Darkheart <drakonis@mindless.com>
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Organization: DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS
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Mook wrote:
> 
> Just picked up a few CD's recently and I was wondering if anybody else had
> checked them out already.
> They are:
> 
> Hardesertrance - by DJ Brian
> Coast To Coast - by DJ Micro
> 
> the first has a very hard edge sound to it, takes you on a journey
> definitely.
> 
> the second is a funky breakbeat disc with a track (Boogie- by Avenging
> Godfather of Disco) that smokes.
> 
> Anybody heard these yet or got any suggestions for further purchases of
> music along this line
> 
> thanx 4 yor scubee snax
> 
> MooK<><

HARDESERTRANCE is an awesome pick up !!! Just wish I could have been at
Dream Canyon to witness the grand occasion !!!

-- 
Drakonis Darkheart - GABBERS OF THE WORLD UNITE !!!

DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS http://home.earthlink.net/~drakonis/index.htm

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 03:09:57 1998
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From: "Joymarie Rose" <jmrose@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR:need some friends...*heehee*
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Sup people...this is PLURLogik...from the south bay...
looking for some hella cool people to rave with or just chill with
check out my HP
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/JoyzPage
See.... go there and find out all about me...
email me back people!!!!
PLUR and much lovez!!!
PLURLogik


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 03:27:32 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:27:36 -0800
From: Drakonis Darkheart <drakonis@mindless.com>
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Joymarie Rose wrote:
> 
> Sup people...this is PLURLogik...from the south bay...
> looking for some hella cool people to rave with or just chill with
> check out my HP
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca/JoyzPage
> See.... go there and find out all about me...
> email me back people!!!!
> PLUR and much lovez!!!
> PLURLogik

Hey beautiful missed you so : ) I'm your friend heheheh : ) You know
this.....
-- 
Drakonis Darkheart - GABBERS OF THE WORLD UNITE !!!

DARKHEART PRODUCTIONS http://home.earthlink.net/~drakonis/index.htm

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 04:22:23 1998
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as usual i will be work off my day at work.
I'll be the exhausted one with the convert jacket. 
Drinking pear cider.

:)
pjf





---megan hug <megan@medialive.com> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 		
> 		anyone up for some static tonight?
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 04:25:59 1998
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Subject: Re: NRR: anybody heard? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Jan 98 17:30:24 PST."
             <34CE8A30.3E4B@mindless.com> 
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 20:25:52 -0800
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Mook wrote:
> Coast To Coast - by DJ Micro

A friend had this and I made a CDR-copy of it (pls don't turn me in
:-/) but didn't have time for a tracklisting. It's pretty good... but
it's not the sort of thing that "hasn't left the cd changer"... There's
a few trax i really like but i don't know the names of 'em since I just
toasted a digital copy of the disk without checking the tracklisting.

In the same series, there's also Coast to Coast vol. 2 by DJ Hardware
(which I bought), I kinda like this one better than DJ Micro's mix.
It's good music for weaving through heavy traffic, but not so good if
you got a headache, or need something smooth n funky. Definitely
the buckdancers-choice music (as either GeoffW or JSL would call it).

In the same genre but more funky and less acid-sounding is DJ Icey's
"The Funky Breaks" on FFRR... I like that one a lot.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 04:32:46 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
cc: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>, "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Cactus Sundays...
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me tooooo
when i turn 21 :)
ahhh hope n pray hope n pray
that something good'll come up in this stinky south bay


On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, jimg/skoop wrote:

> 
> fuck...if jungle be at cactus club, I'll live there each n every
> sunday.
> 
> finally *somthing* cool to do down here.
> 
> -jimg/skoop
> 
> On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Rick wrote:
> 
> > No matter how much I hate the Cactus Club here in 
> > San Jose, I might be going soon on Sunday nights.
> > My friend is a DJ on the San Jose City Radio Station
> > and he is also a DJ at the Cactus club.  He is going
> > to be starting a Jungle night on Sundays.  I'm not sure
> > when it's going to happen but they already have an 
> > "electronic/techno" night.  But they usually just play
> > Industrial and goffik dance.  :(  but hopefully things are
> > looking up for us in the South Bay, even if it is at a terrible
> > club...  :)
> > 
> > Your Jedi Bitch,
> > Jedi666Boy
> > 
> > Rick Fish
> > AirLink Communications, Inc.
> > www.airlink.com
> > rickf@airlink.com
> > 
> > 
> 
> --skoop@slackers.net
> --http://www.slackers.net/~skoop
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 04:47:51 1998
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From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: weeklies in san jose ...
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:35:03 -0800
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I try to hit the velvet shop every thursday ... its at the usual on first
street ... same area where the cactus club is ... some good techno but no
jungle so far ...

on sunday evenings they have Nice in the basement of the agenda lounge ...
last time i was at that one it was kind of empty so i am not sure whether
it will survive very long ...

i also attended a party called the green gorilla lounge which was fairly
decent ... somebody told me it was a monthly affair - can anybody confirm
that ?

non of these offer coffee though ... ;-)

any other leads ... ??

Rudi

The content of this message | mailto:rudir@aimnet.com
in no way reflects the      | mailto:rrughoon@mipos3.intel.com
opinion of my employer :)   | http://www.aimnet.com/~rudir/
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 04:54:21 1998
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To: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>
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Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... ) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Jan 98 14:49:00 PST."
             <v04003a00b0f41113da18@[207.93.14.13]> 
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 20:54:06 -0800
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>  When I've seen
> DJ CD setups, they've almost always had their own mixer, and while I'm
> aware of at least four CD DJ system manufacturers, it seems Pioneer and
> Denon are the most widely used.

I think there's only 1 CD DJ deck out there w/ an integrated mixer. The
rest just have an RCA audio jack that you plug into a Line-In on a mixer.
Now it's true that many CD DJ "coffins" come complete w/ a mixer, but it's
not that they're "integrated" or that the CD decks "own" the mixer...

W/r/t the other point, yes point taken... however, I think there's more
similarities than differences between mixers. A cigar is just a cigar
and a crossfader is just a crossfader. But the ergonomics of cueing,
pitch control, and phase-alignment is vastly different between say,
denon and pioneer decks. 

> I'll have to quibble with this. B-sides and mixes don't often make it on to
> comps and few indie dance labels put out CD singles.
>  
> I will grant that if an album or comp. does make it to CD it'll tend to
> stay in print longer and be more widely available than the vinyl. (witness
> Reload "A Collection of Short Stories" or 4 Hero "Parallel Universe")

While I can't get every single 12" produced by a small record label on
CD, I can certainly get a whole lot of music for a fairly reasonable
price. And a lot of this stuff would be impossible for me to find by
scouring record shops because (1) I don't have the time; (2) I don't
have the money. Furthermore, I rely on the ear of the
compilation-makers (plus friends, IDM, SFR, etc) to determine what
might be interesting and what isn't... I look at them as a sort of
"filter" because there's simply too much music oiut there to digest
otherwise.

Also, most indie labels now have CD samplers of their output. For
example, I've had the SKAM "Skampler" for a while now and just ordered 
their "0161" compilation. I've really enjoyed Dot records "Knights who
say dot", and Clear's "It's all becoming..." plus compilations of 
fairly hard-to-find stuff like React's "True People: The Detroit Techno
Album" and Planet E Communications "Intergalactic Beats"... And w/r/t
rare old school classics, it's a lot easier for me to find a copy of 
A Guy Called Gerald's "voodoo ray" on Mastercuts "Classic House vol 1"
than it would be to find the original 12"....

Chances are I would never be able to come up with *ANY* of these tracks
in any form whatsoever by scouring bay area record shops. They're
probably too obscure or not mainstream enough.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 05:09:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:13:26 -0800
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To: Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon <frosting@mailexcite.com>
CC: "Post Ravin' Bran \(tm\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Where are the weeklies?
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Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon wrote:
> 
> Where did all the South Bay coffee weeklies go?  I know why the old ones fell apart,
> but where are the new ones?  Are there any plans to start another one?  Are we all
> just waiting for Leviticus?  Does anyone need help starting one?  Aren't I full of
> questions!!
> >:)Amber
> ---
> Push the big, red, candy-like button...
> 
> Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
> http://www.mailexcite.com


   Ummmmmmm hey, you just might have to live with the fact that Coffee
Society in Cupertino, City E, and Matisse are dead. take it from me,
Leviitcus has developed into a scene, it's no longer strictly gay
either, it's developing into quite the little raver community. Even
Collin spun there one night on one of the Dance thursdays that are going
to be started pretty soon by Tim (a worker and raver there)
    I'm seriously content with Leviticus, as for what to do on Mondays,
Tuesdays, and Wednesdays....... well on Mondays, go visit someone you
love, Tuesdays, go to 80's night at the Cactus Club (sure it's goth, but
you can find a few ravers there, and it's starting to become a little
raver attraction), and on Wednesdays, go get your jacket that you left
at your loved one's house on Monday....

*kiss kiss* everyone, this is NavySatan, signing off
-eric (NAVYSATAN)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 07:03:34 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:02:57 EST
To: lucke@rocketmail.com, sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org, laura@hyperreal.org,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers/a rockin' CD DJ party
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In a message dated 1/27/98 3:34:22 PM, lucke@rocketmail.com wrote:

>Well then that makes three of you so far that I can 
>count. When can we expect a rockin' CD DJ party from
>you kids? I wanna' see it action!!!
>
>

I would have to second that motion  :o)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 07:17:13 1998
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>BTW, I got into a discussion about the quality of sound coming outta these
>things. I feel that since most house is digital from the onset (sampled and
>tracked, etc.) that it really doesn't matter that it ends up on CD.

Not true.  I know a lot of techno/house musicians, and 90% of them send
their digital samples through an analog mixing board before recording it
onto DAT.  (This will be less true in the future as digital mixing boards,
like the Yamaha Pro Mix, become more popular.)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 08:07:31 1998
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Ummmm that party was about the best party experience I've had in quite a
long time. Three cheers to Cimino <sp?> who made me cream in my pants,
and for once in my life I happened to like Jungle, in the Jungle room.
The vibe though was weird, had the vibe been ideally fake love filled,
maybe the party would have been alot more cheery for me, but it seemed
more like a little bitch ho-down, don't get me wrong, I don't think
that's bad.... I am the biggest "E" bitch there ever was.....

Hey can anyone tell me why I'm going through a Hip-Hop phase?
-eric aka NAVYSATAN

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 08:38:27 1998
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From: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>
To: "'Niels P. Mayer'" <mayer@netcom.com>
Cc: San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... ) 
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:42:02 -0800
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But have you ever heard of a CD DJ take a CD, connect their cartridge so
that its upside down,
Weight the arm so that you can play the underside of the CD...and rig it
so that you can spin your CD backwards?
I recall overhearing a CD vs vinyl conversation of recent... while I
don't know the practicality... it sounds cool!

...And besides if you find a track out there that's REALLY want you can
burn an acetate of it at most
Mastering shops right?

And I think there is something to be said about actually being able to
TOUCH your medium.... To let it slide
Through your fingers...  and of course that crackly snap crackle and pop
in your fav songs that lets you know
The music is alive... then theres the cool slip mats out there...

All my personal whacked out opinion though...

gEoff ;)

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Niels P. Mayer [SMTP:mayer@netcom.com]
	Sent:	Tuesday, January 27, 1998 8:54 PM
	To:	Joe Rice
	Cc:	San FranDisco Ravers List
	Subject:	Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... ) 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 08:42:57 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:45:08 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: VespaRaver <ledesma@sfsu.edu>
Subject: I'm back in SF!!!!!!!!!!
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Hello everyone!  It's me, the one and only VespaRaver, and I'm finally back
in the city.  It's been five weeks, and it feels soooooooooooooooo damn
good to be back.  Just wanted to say hello to everyone!!!!!

Buh-bye for now!

VespaRaver


=================================================
*************************************************
  "You get what you pay for, but I just had no          intention of living
this way."
*************************************************
=================================================

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 08:46:04 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>, "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: anybody heard?
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:32:17 -0800
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I have heard those two cd's and like them. I recommend
Dj Grover's "One with the Universe" He is from Seattle (where i'm
at :) and is really good!

You can listen to it at http://www.groovetech.com in the dj section

and we sell it at Raverbooks for $12.95 http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave

I know, blatant self promotion *grin* but i honestly think it's really
good......

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
         what does it mean when someone says
            "my computer went down on me"?
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>
To: Sfraves Discussion <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 1:54 PM
Subject: NRR: anybody heard?


>Just picked up a few CD's recently and I was wondering if anybody else had
>checked them out already.
>They are:
>
>Hardesertrance - by DJ Brian
>Coast To Coast - by DJ Micro
>
>the first has a very hard edge sound to it, takes you on a journey
>definitely.
>
>the second is a funky breakbeat disc with a track (Boogie- by Avenging
>Godfather of Disco) that smokes.
>
>Anybody heard these yet or got any suggestions for further purchases of
>music along this line
>
>thanx 4 yor scubee snax
>
>MooK<><


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 09:02:04 1998
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Can someone please tell me if the Anti-Depressant drug, "zoloft" cancels
out or somewhat neutralizes the effects of Ecstacy?
I notice since I've been taking Zoloft I haven't been feeling my ecstacy
when my frineds have been taking from the same batch... if it DOES
indeed neutralize the effect, it really doesn't matter, I just have to
go sober, I like sober parties too...
-Screaming with Hormonal Dysfuntion
NaVySaTaN (eric)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 09:28:49 1998
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Message-ID: <34CEF9FD.AC323DC1@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:27:26 -0800
From: "dr. XeNo" <drxeno@ucdavis.edu>
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Organization: UCD Student
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    'Lo there, PLURry peeps!  It's time fer TEK-InDuCED EuPHoriA again.  It's
from 2am-4am tonite, on 90.3fm KDVS, Davis, serving all of Sacto and much
more.  If u can't hear me over the airwaves, go ta
http://www.mother.com/htbin/cgiwrap/~kdvs/timche and u can get it on
RealAudio.  I'll be taking requests @ 530-752-2777, or by email, #sfraves, or
drxeno06 on IM.  Take care....and thanx fer listening if u can...

--
<<<A PLURry boy...>>>                    dr. XeNo
"Sing while you may!"                                      >:-)
          -- Edward Qa-Spel        "Set me free,
                                                Remotivate me!"
       >:-(                                         -- Martin L. Gore
              <<<<<< dr_XeNo@pacbell.net >>>>>>
**



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 12:01:42 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:07:31 -0800
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Subject: S.P.A.Z. propaganda
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tonight on radio M>U>T>A>N>T+++++++++++++




dj's
terbo ted
jason ovabitch  (spiral tribe)
sunflowrfish
feckless


live performance by 00011

live webcam----

www.hyperreal.org/~spaz/

spaz@hyperreal.org
*******************************************************************

Warehouse party!

this friday jan. 30th-------

dj's   chizuru-----synthesis d.-------jason ovabitch-------pollywog

live performance by AMA Family

all ages/all night   $5     17th/Capp san francisco   10pm-?



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 15:10:08 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:07:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Ground Zero: Review (kinda)
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After having dealt with some B.S. we rolled into
Maritime Hall at around 10:30. They set the speakers
in the front of the room on the first floor which 
sounded like shit, after a few heads came in, so we
headed upstairs and stayed there most of the night.
We walked in on Ghost and Frank Nitty hitting four
turntables. While I have heard better sets by these
two, the sound was set up perfectly and I mean really
well. The bass would hit so hard in the back of the
room that it messed with my inner ear a bit (nice).This
was one big room also.

Cool visuals but why is it that people feel they have
to play pornos all night long? Whatever, but the breaks
were hard and the scratching skills were on. Most of
the stuff played was old though and just not too
inventive.

Without a line-up I have no clue who was spinning
because the stage was so damn dark I couldn't even
tell who the f*ck was on. That is until Simply Jeff
and his orange friends came on. Very cool mix of live
stuff with someone(?) else spinning. I was never very
impressed by the rekkids he produces, however, seeing
him live is a different story. Good variations and they
had the place rocking for sometime. 

The last DJ ? though, blew the roof off this place and
made the evening worth while. Great tracks, good
skillz, and just all around tight DJing. The people
were very cool, good vibes, no fights, _ yeah six in da
mornin' and all believe it or not. Except for the
fact that it was listed as closing @ 6 (we all know
Maritime
Hall shuts er' down at 4) other than that it was a good
party.

Out
Layne







From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 18:04:16 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:58:50 -0800
From: "Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net>
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Yes it does. Zoloft is a seratonin reuptake inhibitor, which causes your
body to produce a bit more seratonin (feel good neurotransmitter), but
prevents the system from absorbing enormous amounts of it. X floods the body
with seratonin, and doesn't limit the amount your brain absorbs, hence the
high.

Until you're off of the Zoloft for a while, you won't feel the X as much.
This also happened to two friends of mines.

Be carefull!

b.

NavySatan wrote:

> Can someone please tell me if the Anti-Depressant drug, "zoloft" cancels
> out or somewhat neutralizes the effects of Ecstacy?
> I notice since I've been taking Zoloft I haven't been feeling my ecstacy
> when my frineds have been taking from the same batch... if it DOES
> indeed neutralize the effect, it really doesn't matter, I just have to
> go sober, I like sober parties too...
> -Screaming with Hormonal Dysfuntion
> NaVySaTaN (eric)





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 18:05:16 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:47:41 -0800
From: "Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: bmeier@pacbell.net
Organization: Meier Knowledge Management
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To: Mook <mcarey@triad.com>, sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: NRR: anybody heard?
References: <01bd2b7e$a80e6030$5de0adcd@pcmc.triad.com>
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There are two Coast to Coasts. One is DJ Hardware, the other is DJ Micro. Both
are excellent.

Love 'em both! Also check out the following:

Funkydesertbreaks
Funkydesertbreaks 2
    Both on Moonshine Label mixed by John Kelley, hard edged, but not so much
as Hardesertrance. Lots of breaks, no dnb. Saw John Kelley in Denver last
year. Mindblowing!

beatbox 2000
beatbox 2001
    Very similar to the two above, but more trancy.

DJ Cher - International DJ Syndicate, React label
    Fast paced breaks, with a kewl mix of Electroliner's Loos Caboose (Bassbin
Twins mix)

LA Groove - DJ Jesse Brooks, V Wax label
San Francisco Groove - DJ Jim Hopkins
    Both have good "funky grooves and breakbeat" (their words, but true)

Any of the three mixed Planet Rampant disks. No. 2 is BRILLIANT!

DJ Dan's disks Loose Caboose and his URB mix on Sm:)e are good. Leans toward
deep trancy techno towards the end.

Jeff Romanowski's Dreams - similar to the Beatbox 200x series

Best of luck finding them all!

b.


Mook wrote:

> Just picked up a few CD's recently and I was wondering if anybody else had
> checked them out already.
> They are:
>
> Hardesertrance - by DJ Brian
> Coast To Coast - by DJ Micro
>
> the first has a very hard edge sound to it, takes you on a journey
> definitely.
>
> the second is a funky breakbeat disc with a track (Boogie- by Avenging
> Godfather of Disco) that smokes.
>
> Anybody heard these yet or got any suggestions for further purchases of
> music along this line
>
> thanx 4 yor scubee snax
>
> MooK<><






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 18:14:08 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:06:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: anybody heard?
To: bmeier@pacbell.net, Mook <mcarey@triad.com>,
  sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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Hey Bruce,

I know John pretty well, kind of a long story but we
live really close to each other back in LA. (moms
house) Look for Funkydesertbreaks 3 to be announced,
with a suprise appearance from an unknown SanFran
breakbeat DJ ;) Who knows if you send me an address and
maybe some tickets will appear in your mailbox hehehe

Layne


---"Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net> wrote:


> Funkydesertbreaks
> Funkydesertbreaks 2
>     Both on Moonshine Label mixed by John Kelley,
hard edged, but not so much
> as Hardesertrance. Lots of breaks, no dnb. Saw John
Kelley in Denver last
> year. Mindblowing!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 18:30:40 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:30:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Feeley <brian@magpage.com>
X-Sender: brian@alaska
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [604] Sundance Films (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801261742.JAA18707@atari.saturn5.com>
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Some more info on this film at this URL. Very nice site as well :)


http://www.sundancechannel.com/festival98/filmguide/films/modulati.tin


Brian


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 18:47:03 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:46:22 -0500 (EST)
From: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
To: Rudi Rughoonundon <rudir@aimnet.com>
cc: SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: weeklies in san jose ...
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On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Rudi Rughoonundon wrote:

> I try to hit the velvet shop every thursday ... its at the usual on first
> street ... same area where the cactus club is ... some good techno but no
> jungle so far ...
> 
> on sunday evenings they have Nice in the basement of the agenda lounge ...
> last time i was at that one it was kind of empty so i am not sure whether
> it will survive very long ...

okay, dumb question, but I've only been to Agenda once, and I went
upstairs to hear some so-so jazz...how/where do you get to the entrance to
the basement?  And, what kind of tunes do they spin at this thing?  Sounds
interesting....


> i also attended a party called the green gorilla lounge which was fairly
> decent ... somebody told me it was a monthly affair - can anybody confirm
> that ?

where???

perhaps SJ is looking up afterall....

-jimg

ps. I'm about ready to clean out my garage, rent a pa, and have peeps over
in my garage...but I don't think the neighbors or my landlady would love
me very much.... ;)



--skoop@slackers.net
--http://www.slackers.net/~skoop


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 18:47:56 1998
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From: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
To: NavySatan <sushi888@mtnweb.com>
cc: Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon <frosting@mailexcite.com>,
  "Post Ravin' Bran \(tm\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Where are the weeklies?
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Where o where is this leviticus thingy?

dahn in da souf bay,

-jimg

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, NavySatan wrote:

> Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon wrote:
> > 
> > Where did all the South Bay coffee weeklies go?  I know why the old ones fell apart,
> > but where are the new ones?  Are there any plans to start another one?  Are we all
> > just waiting for Leviticus?  Does anyone need help starting one?  Aren't I full of
> > questions!!
> > >:)Amber
> > ---
> > Push the big, red, candy-like button...
> > 
> > Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
> > http://www.mailexcite.com
> 
> 
>    Ummmmmmm hey, you just might have to live with the fact that Coffee
> Society in Cupertino, City E, and Matisse are dead. take it from me,
> Leviitcus has developed into a scene, it's no longer strictly gay
> either, it's developing into quite the little raver community. Even
> Collin spun there one night on one of the Dance thursdays that are going
> to be started pretty soon by Tim (a worker and raver there)
>     I'm seriously content with Leviticus, as for what to do on Mondays,
> Tuesdays, and Wednesdays....... well on Mondays, go visit someone you
> love, Tuesdays, go to 80's night at the Cactus Club (sure it's goth, but
> you can find a few ravers there, and it's starting to become a little
> raver attraction), and on Wednesdays, go get your jacket that you left
> at your loved one's house on Monday....
> 
> *kiss kiss* everyone, this is NavySatan, signing off
> -eric (NAVYSATAN)
> 

--skoop@slackers.net
--http://www.slackers.net/~skoop


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 18:51:58 1998
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Subject: Re: Where are the weeklies?
To: skoop@slackers.net (jimg/skoop)
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It's on The Alameda (which starts out as El Camino in Sunnyvale/Santa
Clara etc, then turns into Santa Clara after a bit), right next to the
Towne Theatre.

jimg/skoop wrote:
> 
> 
> Where o where is this leviticus thingy?
> 
> dahn in da souf bay,
> 
> -jimg

                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 18:54:58 1998
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From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Where are the weeklies?
To: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>, NavySatan <sushi888@mtnweb.com>
Cc: Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon <frosting@mailexcite.com>,
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Uhhhh the "Old Testament"? hehe sorry couldn't resist
8)

LL


---jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net> wrote:
>
> 
> Where o where is this leviticus thingy?
> 
> dahn in da souf bay,
 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 19:27:00 1998
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NavySatan wrote:
> 
> Can someone please tell me if the Anti-Depressant drug, "zoloft" cancels
Can anyone tell me if taking too many drugs causes you to 
post on a public list that is monitored by police and 
the district attorney about how much they use and to ask
incriminating questions even after being repeated asked
not to by the moderator and other helpful people on the list?

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


> out or somewhat neutralizes the effects of Ecstacy?
> I notice since I've been taking Zoloft I haven't been feeling my ecstacy
> when my frineds have been taking from the same batch... if it DOES
> indeed neutralize the effect, it really doesn't matter, I just have to
> go sober, I like sober parties too...
> -Screaming with Hormonal Dysfuntion
> NaVySaTaN (eric)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 19:39:07 1998
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Dom Moreci wrote:
> 
> >
> >>    Toddler Property Laws:
> >>
> >>     1. If I like it, it's mine.
> >>     2. If it's in my hand, it's mine.
> >>     3. If I can take it from you, it's mine.
> >>     4. If I had it a little while ago, it's mine.
> >>     5. If it's mine, it must never appear to be yours in any way.
> >>     6. If I'm doing or building something, all the pieces are mine.
> >>     7. If it looks just like mine, it's mine.
> >>     8. If I think it's mine, it's mine.
> >>     9. If it's yours and I steal it, it's mine.
> >>     10.  If I ...
> >
> >Whoops! Sorry! Instead of reading the
> >Toddler Property Laws, I've been reading Microsoft's
> >Business Plan!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 20:50:58 1998
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jimg/skoop wrote:
> 
> Where o where is this leviticus thingy?
> 
> dahn in da souf bay,
> 
> -jimg
> 
> On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, NavySatan wrote:
> 
> > Amber Marie Lawraine Nixon wrote:
> > >
> > > Where did all the South Bay coffee weeklies go?  I know why the old ones fell apart,
> > > but where are the new ones?  Are there any plans to start another one?  Are we all
> > > just waiting for Leviticus?  Does anyone need help starting one?  Aren't I full of
> > > questions!!
> > > >:)Amber
> > > ---
> > > Push the big, red, candy-like button...
> > >
> > > Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
> > > http://www.mailexcite.com
> >
> >
> >    Ummmmmmm hey, you just might have to live with the fact that Coffee
> > Society in Cupertino, City E, and Matisse are dead. take it from me,
> > Leviitcus has developed into a scene, it's no longer strictly gay
> > either, it's developing into quite the little raver community. Even
> > Collin spun there one night on one of the Dance thursdays that are going
> > to be started pretty soon by Tim (a worker and raver there)
> >     I'm seriously content with Leviticus, as for what to do on Mondays,
> > Tuesdays, and Wednesdays....... well on Mondays, go visit someone you
> > love, Tuesdays, go to 80's night at the Cactus Club (sure it's goth, but
> > you can find a few ravers there, and it's starting to become a little
> > raver attraction), and on Wednesdays, go get your jacket that you left
> > at your loved one's house on Monday....
> >
> > *kiss kiss* everyone, this is NavySatan, signing off
> > -eric (NAVYSATAN)
> >
> 
> --skoop@slackers.net
> --http://www.slackers.net/~skoop




 OK for everyone who wants to start attending CAFE LEVITICUS on thursday
nights.... here's the info

 it starts roughly 9:30pm EVERY Thursday night at the cafe, and runs
untill 12:00am, but most people go out to dinner afterwards at Carrow's
on Saratoga afterwards to get fed by "Big Mama" the waitress...

DIRECTIONS:
If you're coming from the peninsula-
101 or 280 south
take the 880 junction (from 101 go south towards santa cruz) (from 280
north towards Oakland)
exit Alameda (left if coming from 101)(right if coming from 280)
it will be on your right, a crowd of people should be gathered outside
of it and it should beright next to an old movie theater and across the
street from a school and gas station. REMEMBER it's always good to come
fashionably late at around 10:00pm, though people start getting there at
8:30pm

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 20:51:56 1998
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Thinking

It started out innocently enough.  I began to think at parties now
and then to loosen up.  Inevitably though, one thought led to
another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker.

I began to think alone -"to relax," I told myself - but I knew it
wasn't true.  Thinking became more and more important to me, and
finally I was thinking all the time.

I began to think on the job.  I knew that thinking and employment
don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself.

I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and
Kafka.  I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking,
"What is it exactly we are doing here?"

Things weren't going so great at home either.  One evening I had
turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She
spent that night at her mother's.

I soon had a reputation as a heavy thinker.  One day the boss called
me in. He said, "Skippy, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but
your thinking has become a real problem.  If you don't stop thinking
on the job, you'll have to find another job." This gave me a lot to
think about.

I came home early after my conversation with the boss.  "Honey," I
confessed... "I've been thinking..."

"I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"
"But Honey, surely it's not that serious."

"It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver.  "You think as much as
college professors, and college professors don't make any money, so
if you keep on thinking we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently, and she began to
cry. I'd had enough.  "I'm going to the library," I snarled as I
stomped out the door.

I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche, with an AM
station on the radio.  I roared into the parking lot and ran up to
the big glass doors...they didn't open.  The library was closed.

To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me
that night.

As I sank to the ground clawing at the unfeeling glass, whimpering
for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye. "Friend, is heavy thinking
ruining your life?" it asked.  You probably recognize that line.  It
comes from the standard Thinker's Anonymous poster.

Which is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker.  I never
miss a TA meeting.  At each meeting we watch a non-educational video;
last  week it was "Porky's."  Then we share experiences about how we
avoided thinking since the last meeting.

I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home.

Life just seemed...easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 20:56:53 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:43:31 EST
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: NRR:  mind trick
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Hey everyone... a friend sent me this... check it out!

<snip>

> <<
>  Follow the force......let it flow within you......and feel the power of
this
>  fully operational mind trick!
> 
>  Be sure to follow directions. This is the coolest.
> 
>  This little jedi mind trick is kinda freaky, till you think about it a
little
>  while.  Then it's even more weird.
> 
>  Just follow the instructions below:
> 
>  DON'T scroll down too fast-do it slowly, and follow the instructions below
>  exactly, and do the math in your head as fast as you can. It worked on us.
> 
>  FOLLOW these instructions one at a time and as QUICKLY as you can!
> 
>  What is:
> 
>  2+2?
> 
> 
> 
>  4+4?
> 
> 
> 
>  8+8?
> 
> 
> 
>  16+16?
> 
> 
> 
>  Quick! Pick a number between 12 and 5.  Got it?
> 
> 
>  Now scroll down...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  The number you picked was 7 right?
>  Isn't that weird???
> 
> 
>  THE END!
>  Did it work for you?
>
     ..... twilight zone mix fading in ..... 

Peace
~Michael

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:02:37 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:55:18 -0800
To: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Plug for a Sac weekly, not actually BSP
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 05:16 PM 1/27/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Tell me more about these jungle parties.
****
Cosmic Drip Cyber Cafe's
Thursday night Cyber Social

there's a resident Dj Tyler who is decent.  we have several mixologists
friends who occasionally stop by... always at least 2 djs, goes long into
the eve...

the social isn't all jungle, however there is a few computer guys who often
come in with their sound software, sampler, and etc, and they throw down
some phat jungle beats...

it's not always jungle, but it's always a good time... 

the location is fairly freeway close, Sunrise Blvd. and Woodmore Oaks,
behind Chief Auto and 7-11.. 

up 80, off at Antelope/Citrus Heights... [make a right] 
up Antelope to Sunrise, [make right], 
left at Woodmore oaks.  right side, right away, can't miss it.

$3 cover.. it's a coffee shop, so all that...  

if  your not too far away, and not doing anything, it's definitely somwhere
to stop by on Thursdays... 

peace,
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:02:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:40:39 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: lesson learned: be nice to the fish
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At 04:45 PM 1/27/98 -0800, you wrote:
>is known to follow a stream of urine to its source, swim
>inside the body, and flare is barbed fins. It will remain
>firmly embedded in the flesh until surgically removed.
*****
i wonder why?  what is the motivation?

i think it's because of it's nature to follow the warmth, it doesn't
realize it's swimmin into your urethra, and then it  cant back up... the
fish is probably as pissed [no  pun intended] as the person who has 'im up
here.

malicous fish...?
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:05:08 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
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Subject: Re: NRR:  mind trick
To: Dsfunshnl1@aol.com (Dsfunshnl1)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:08:05 -0800 (PST)
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Funky!

That's /exactly/ the number I picked. Keen trick Michael!

Dsfunshnl1 wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone... a friend sent me this... check it out!
> 
> <snip>
> 

<snip>

                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:11:34 1998
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     Am i psyco? i picked number 11.
     
     Lacie


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: NRR:  mind trick
Author:  Non-HP-Dsfunshnl1 (Dsfunshnl1@aol.com) at HP-MountainView,shargw3
Date:    1/28/98 12:43 PM


Hey everyone... a friend sent me this... check it out!
     
<snip>
     
> <<
>  Follow the force......let it flow within you......and feel the power of 
this
>  fully operational mind trick!
> 
>  Be sure to follow directions. This is the coolest. 
> 
>  This little jedi mind trick is kinda freaky, till you think about it a 
little
>  while.  Then it's even more weird. 
> 
>  Just follow the instructions below: 
> 
>  DON'T scroll down too fast-do it slowly, and follow the instructions below 
>  exactly, and do the math in your head as fast as you can. It worked on us. 
> 
>  FOLLOW these instructions one at a time and as QUICKLY as you can! 
> 
>  What is:
> 
>  2+2?
> 
> 
> 
>  4+4?
> 
> 
> 
>  8+8?
> 
> 
> 
>  16+16?
> 
> 
> 
>  Quick! Pick a number between 12 and 5.  Got it? 
> 
> 
>  Now scroll down...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  The number you picked was 7 right? 
>  Isn't that weird???
> 
> 
>  THE END!
>  Did it work for you?
>
     ..... twilight zone mix fading in ..... 
     
Peace
~Michael


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:21:12 1998
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HEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEE

	is it really monitored by the DA's of this area? if so... hehehe if so,
I got some things to sa... well, I just wanna know if they really are
monitoring this list:)

						mickeymc



fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> 
> NavySatan wrote:
> >
> > Can someone please tell me if the Anti-Depressant drug, "zoloft" cancels
> Can anyone tell me if taking too many drugs causes you to
> post on a public list that is monitored by police and
> the district attorney about how much they use and to ask
> incriminating questions even after being repeated asked
> not to by the moderator and other helpful people on the list?
> 
>         ><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
>                 foolish fish
> 
> > out or somewhat neutralizes the effects of Ecstacy?
> > I notice since I've been taking Zoloft I haven't been feeling my ecstacy
> > when my frineds have been taking from the same batch... if it DOES
> > indeed neutralize the effect, it really doesn't matter, I just have to
> > go sober, I like sober parties too...
> > -Screaming with Hormonal Dysfuntion
> > NaVySaTaN (eric)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:36:36 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:28:52 -0800 (PST)
From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media / Skippers 
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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i'd say it's just a matter of time (2 years? 3?) before you can get
specially configured laptops for this.  say with 2 cdroms built in,
and maybe one of them is a burner too...  i'm imagining third party
shareware which changes the pitch, matches the beat, phases, flanges,
and eq's the cd's, while sampling and looping on the fly and syncing
it all with your rebirth-338.  you could archive your favorite breaks
on your hard drive, map out the next 10 minutes of your set in a text
file, and even surf the web for vocal soundbites to throw on top of it
all while you're "spinning", incorporating up-to-the-minute news clips
or live internet porn feeds into your set.  hell, a lot of stuff may
be out on dvd by that point, so you could be mixing amp-ed out videos
with a clip from your favorite movie, say the explosion-filled chase
scene with the techno soundtrack from the latest hong kong/hollywood
tong flick...

all controlled, of course, through a cheap vr set - the dj (wearing vr
goggles) would be in a virtual room filled with 3-d icons which could
be controlled by body movements and inflections of the hand.  of
course, to the audience it would look like she a blind woman doing
interprative modern dance and conducting an orchestra at the same time.

of course, as this scenario is taking place in the next millineum, the
dj would be a genetically altered artist-shaman-morph, resembling
humans in most ways exept for the extra double-jointed digits and the
psychic third eye monitoring the crowd's spiritual journey.

or did i see all this at static last night?  what year is it again? 
damn, i really oughtta lay off those damn synapse skippers...


-messiahw




---"Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com> wrote:
>
> 
> >  When I've seen
> > DJ CD setups, they've almost always had their own mixer, and while
I'm
> > aware of at least four CD DJ system manufacturers, it seems
Pioneer and
> > Denon are the most widely used.
> 
> I think there's only 1 CD DJ deck out there w/ an integrated mixer.
The
> rest just have an RCA audio jack that you plug into a Line-In on a
mixer.
> Now it's true that many CD DJ "coffins" come complete w/ a mixer,
but it's
> not that they're "integrated" or that the CD decks "own" the mixer...
> 
> W/r/t the other point, yes point taken... however, I think there's
more
> similarities than differences between mixers. A cigar is just a cigar
> and a crossfader is just a crossfader. But the ergonomics of cueing,
> pitch control, and phase-alignment is vastly different between say,
> denon and pioneer decks. 
> 
> > I'll have to quibble with this. B-sides and mixes don't often make
it on to
> > comps and few indie dance labels put out CD singles.
> >  
> > I will grant that if an album or comp. does make it to CD it'll
tend to
> > stay in print longer and be more widely available than the vinyl.
(witness
> > Reload "A Collection of Short Stories" or 4 Hero "Parallel
Universe")
> 
> While I can't get every single 12" produced by a small record label on
> CD, I can certainly get a whole lot of music for a fairly reasonable
> price. And a lot of this stuff would be impossible for me to find by
> scouring record shops because (1) I don't have the time; (2) I don't
> have the money. Furthermore, I rely on the ear of the
> compilation-makers (plus friends, IDM, SFR, etc) to determine what
> might be interesting and what isn't... I look at them as a sort of
> "filter" because there's simply too much music oiut there to digest
> otherwise.
> 
> Also, most indie labels now have CD samplers of their output. For
> example, I've had the SKAM "Skampler" for a while now and just
ordered 
> their "0161" compilation. I've really enjoyed Dot records "Knights who
> say dot", and Clear's "It's all becoming..." plus compilations of 
> fairly hard-to-find stuff like React's "True People: The Detroit
Techno
> Album" and Planet E Communications "Intergalactic Beats"... And w/r/t
> rare old school classics, it's a lot easier for me to find a copy of 
> A Guy Called Gerald's "voodoo ray" on Mastercuts "Classic House vol 1"
> than it would be to find the original 12"....
> 
> Chances are I would never be able to come up with *ANY* of these
tracks
> in any form whatsoever by scouring bay area record shops. They're
> probably too obscure or not mainstream enough.
> 
> 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> ==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>>
http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
> 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: 2.6.3
> 
> mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP
> Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1
> X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR
> tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU
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> =RUx1
> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:37:19 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: grimley thoughts for a wed
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Me large bboy pants and glowsticks.  You pigtails and
glitter.  We looked at each other briefly.  Thought
you were really cute but to shy to say anything.  If
you are interested call  1-415-dreamon leave message
in box xxexee

Sometimes I wonder if those missed connections are
just written by bored editors of the personal
section.  Not that I read the personals, I was just
looking for holistic medicine and got lost.

Yeah, right, so I was at liquid last night and I
always have this recurring fear when I am dancing. 
Is any one old enough to remember Martin Short's
Character Ed Grimley.  He was on Sat Night Live back
in the early 80s.  He was teh one with the spike on
top of his head and the Wheel of fortune fetish"Oh,
to meet Pat Sejak, wouldn't that be the best, I must
say."  Well, He had this really hilarious
dance,totally geeky, and every now and then, when I
am at a club or a rave, I think to myself- I don't
look like that when I dance do I? 
 
But then sometimes I think- I hope, at least that I
look that funny when I dance.

pjf slippin and sliding to a club near you.






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:39:39 1998
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From: SolR <solr@sacraves.org>
Subject: Re: NRR:  mind trick
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At 01:08 PM 1/28/98 -0800, you wrote:
>That's /exactly/ the number I picked. Keen trick Michael!
******
i think mind was broken... i picked 8.
-SolR

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 21:39:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:43:24 -0700
To: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media / Skippers
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Whoa!!!!!

This is my DREAM!
I'm glad someone put it in writing. :)

>i'd say it's just a matter of time (2 years? 3?) before you can get
>specially configured laptops for this.  say with 2 cdroms built in,
>and maybe one of them is a burner too...  i'm imagining third party
>shareware which changes the pitch, matches the beat, phases, flanges,
>and eq's the cd's, while sampling and looping on the fly and syncing
>it all with your rebirth-338.  you could archive your favorite breaks
>on your hard drive, map out the next 10 minutes of your set in a text
>file, and even surf the web for vocal soundbites to throw on top of it
>all while you're "spinning", incorporating up-to-the-minute news clips
>or live internet porn feeds into your set.  hell, a lot of stuff may
>be out on dvd by that point, so you could be mixing amp-ed out videos
>with a clip from your favorite movie, say the explosion-filled chase
>scene with the techno soundtrack from the latest hong kong/hollywood
>tong flick...
>
>all controlled, of course, through a cheap vr set - the dj (wearing vr
>goggles) would be in a virtual room filled with 3-d icons which could
>be controlled by body movements and inflections of the hand.  of
>course, to the audience it would look like she a blind woman doing
>interprative modern dance and conducting an orchestra at the same time.
>
>of course, as this scenario is taking place in the next millineum, the
>dj would be a genetically altered artist-shaman-morph, resembling
>humans in most ways exept for the extra double-jointed digits and the
>psychic third eye monitoring the crowd's spiritual journey.
>
>or did i see all this at static last night?  what year is it again?
>damn, i really oughtta lay off those damn synapse skippers...
>
>
>-messiahw
>


Thanks,




rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 22:00:06 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:58:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Laurence Y Maar <raver@mcl.ucsb.edu>
To: Dope.Fiends.List@takeover.the.net
Subject: Princess Di Used By Drug Dealers!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980128135630.4740A-100000@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
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This was someone's BSP to alt.tasteless.jokes, but its an RR joke so I
thought I should share =)
PLUR... L
----

     
British drug pushers are offering Ecstasy tablets with the image of 
Princess Diana and the letters R.I.P...
     
Authorities had believed this was a tribute, until they were told that 
R.I.P. stood for Rammed Into Post.



     
For lots of original topical jokes, visit the NewsJoke web site at: 
http://www.newsjoke.com
     


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 22:09:45 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:13:37 -0800
To: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed
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well,  pjfuzzy~

i was lucky enough to see you dance 
(is that what you call it? just poking fun at... er... i mean with you...)
last night... and rest assured, you look nothing like ed grimley... 
he has a triangle all ready to ding, and well... you didn't.

;)
i think that as long as you feel the music and go with it... you can't go
wrong!
that's why i love watching ALL people dance!  so many different styles,
attitudes, expressions... it's all so fun to watch...

i've got this friend named bryon... he has his own style of dance: be
dramatic and move everything as crazy as possible with out falling down...
his friends have named this dance technique "the byro-scope"...  gotta love
it, appreciate it, and give him all the respect he deserves!
not many people have the confidence to lose it like that.

"ding"
megan

pj~ i'll show you _my_ ed grimley impersonation sometime!  but _that's_
something i _can't_ do sober!
:)

At 01:34 PM 1/28/98 -0800, pj fuzzy wrote:
>
>Me large bboy pants and glowsticks.  You pigtails and
>glitter.  We looked at each other briefly.  Thought
>you were really cute but to shy to say anything.  If
>you are interested call  1-415-dreamon leave message
>in box xxexee
>
>Sometimes I wonder if those missed connections are
>just written by bored editors of the personal
>section.  Not that I read the personals, I was just
>looking for holistic medicine and got lost.
>
>Yeah, right, so I was at liquid last night and I
>always have this recurring fear when I am dancing. 
>Is any one old enough to remember Martin Short's
>Character Ed Grimley.  He was on Sat Night Live back
>in the early 80s.  He was teh one with the spike on
>top of his head and the Wheel of fortune fetish"Oh,
>to meet Pat Sejak, wouldn't that be the best, I must
>say."  Well, He had this really hilarious
>dance,totally geeky, and every now and then, when I
>am at a club or a rave, I think to myself- I don't
>look like that when I dance do I? 
> 
>But then sometimes I think- I hope, at least that I
>look that funny when I dance.
>
>pjf slippin and sliding to a club near you.
>
>
>
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 22:17:04 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: mind trick
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:18:59 -0800
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It's pretty cool. But it kinda takes the fun out of it if ya know why it
works. The whole association thing.

Hey you people who didn't pick 7 aren't brain damged you just see the world
from a "different" perspective- this can be a good thig seeing the state the
worlds in as result of doing things from a "normal" perspective (if there is
sucha  thing)

MooK<><
-----Original Message-----
From: Dsfunshnl1 <Dsfunshnl1@aol.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 12:55 PM
Subject: NRR: mind trick


>Hey everyone... a friend sent me this... check it out!
>
><snip>
>
>> <<
>>  Follow the force......let it flow within you......and feel the power of
>this
>>  fully operational mind trick!
>>
>>  Be sure to follow directions. This is the coolest.
>>
>>  This little jedi mind trick is kinda freaky, till you think about it a
>little
>>  while.  Then it's even more weird.
>>
>>  Just follow the instructions below:
>>
>>  DON'T scroll down too fast-do it slowly, and follow the instructions
below
>>  exactly, and do the math in your head as fast as you can. It worked on
us.
>>
>>  FOLLOW these instructions one at a time and as QUICKLY as you can!
>>
>>  What is:
>>
>>  2+2?
>>
>>
>>
>>  4+4?
>>
>>
>>
>>  8+8?
>>
>>
>>
>>  16+16?
>>
>>
>>
>>  Quick! Pick a number between 12 and 5.  Got it?
>>
>>
>>  Now scroll down...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  The number you picked was 7 right?
>>  Isn't that weird???
>>
>>
>>  THE END!
>>  Did it work for you?
>>
>     ..... twilight zone mix fading in .....
>
>Peace
>~Michael
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 23:05:04 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:09:13 -0800 (PST)
From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed
To: megan hug <megan@medialive.com>
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a triangle- now that's what I've been missing!!!
so what do you sfraves think about people who bring
their own instruments to a rave- do it add or get in
the way?

Oh, and about the dancing thing I am not too worried-
I remember the words of my friend craig who advised
me before going to my first rave that if I ever felt
self conscious about my style just lok around me and
chances are I won't be the only one, at least, who
looks silly.

pjf looking to brin his little dingaling to the next
rave





---megan hug <megan@medialive.com> wrote:
>
> well,  pjfuzzy~
> 
> i was lucky enough to see you dance 
> (is that what you call it? just poking fun at...
er... i mean with you...)
> last night... and rest assured, you look nothing
like ed grimley... 
> he has a triangle all ready to ding, and well...
you didn't.
> 
> ;)
> i think that as long as you feel the music and go
with it... you can't go
> wrong!
> that's why i love watching ALL people dance!  so
many different styles,
> attitudes, expressions... it's all so fun to watch...
> 
> i've got this friend named bryon... he has his own
style of dance: be
> dramatic and move everything as crazy as possible
with out falling down...
> his friends have named this dance technique "the
byro-scope"...  gotta love
> it, appreciate it, and give him all the respect he
deserves!
> not many people have the confidence to lose it like
that.
> 
> "ding"
> megan
> 
> pj~ i'll show you _my_ ed grimley impersonation
sometime!  but _that's_
> something i _can't_ do sober!
> :)
> 




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 23:09:31 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:02:28 -0800
From: Eric <ekato@earthlink.net>
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  I got this a while ago from this guy who was on this list, I believe
he's the actual creator of it.  It's a virtual turntable!!!   I haven't
tried it because it's for a Mac
only.  Here's the web addy... http://www.deeje.com


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 23:19:34 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
Message-Id: <199801282322.PAA00254@u2.netgate.net>
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed
To: pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com (pj fuzzy)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:22:28 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Reply-To: haze@netgate.net
In-Reply-To: <19980128230913.22890.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> from "pj fuzzy" at Jan 28, 98 03:09:13 pm
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People who bring their own instruments? Well, there were a few of those at
Lightseed, first I've seen that, and I have to admit, it distracted me a
lot.  I'd just get into whatever music it was and someone would start
going off beat on the bongo or the oboe or whatever that guy in the Trance
room was playing, and while sometimes it was cool, there were other times
when it distracted me and disrupted my vibe. :)

To the other extreme, I've had times where people have blown whistles and
it totally geared me up, then again, the whistles were also on beat and
easier to tune out if need be. :)

pj fuzzy wrote:
> 
> 
> a triangle- now that's what I've been missing!!!
> so what do you sfraves think about people who bring
> their own instruments to a rave- do it add or get in
> the way?
> 
> Oh, and about the dancing thing I am not too worried-
> I remember the words of my friend craig who advised
> me before going to my first rave that if I ever felt
> self conscious about my style just lok around me and
> chances are I won't be the only one, at least, who
> looks silly.
> 
> pjf looking to brin his little dingaling to the next
> rave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---megan hug <megan@medialive.com> wrote:
> >
> > well,  pjfuzzy~
> > 
> > i was lucky enough to see you dance 
> > (is that what you call it? just poking fun at...
> er... i mean with you...)
> > last night... and rest assured, you look nothing
> like ed grimley... 
> > he has a triangle all ready to ding, and well...
> you didn't.
> > 
> > ;)
> > i think that as long as you feel the music and go
> with it... you can't go
> > wrong!
> > that's why i love watching ALL people dance!  so
> many different styles,
> > attitudes, expressions... it's all so fun to watch...
> > 
> > i've got this friend named bryon... he has his own
> style of dance: be
> > dramatic and move everything as crazy as possible
> with out falling down...
> > his friends have named this dance technique "the
> byro-scope"...  gotta love
> > it, appreciate it, and give him all the respect he
> deserves!
> > not many people have the confidence to lose it like
> that.
> > 
> > "ding"
> > megan
> > 
> > pj~ i'll show you _my_ ed grimley impersonation
> sometime!  but _that's_
> > something i _can't_ do sober!
> > :)
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 



                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 23:31:40 1998
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From: Nathan <nholderbein@comsysdev.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: NRR:  mind trick
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:22:12 -0800
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FWIW

The same "force" works on a similar trick I remember from middle school. =
Have someone muiltiple 9 by all the odd numbers up to 9, then the even =
numbers up to 9 (aloud). Then ask them the first vegetable that comes to =
mind. They will almost invariably choose carrot.

-Nate

-----Original Message-----
From:	LACIE_MURPHY@Non-HP-MountainView-om3.om.hp.com =
[SMTP:LACIE_MURPHY@Non-HP-MountainView-om3.om.hp.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, January 28, 1998 1:11 PM
To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org; Dsfunshnl1@aol.com
Subject:	Re: NRR:  mind trick

     Am i psyco? i picked number 11.
    =20
     Lacie


______________________________ Reply Separator =
_________________________________
Subject: NRR:  mind trick
Author:  Non-HP-Dsfunshnl1 (Dsfunshnl1@aol.com) at =
HP-MountainView,shargw3
Date:    1/28/98 12:43 PM


Hey everyone... a friend sent me this... check it out!
    =20
<snip>
    =20
> <<
>  Follow the force......let it flow within you......and feel the power =
of=20
this
>  fully operational mind trick!
>=20
>  Be sure to follow directions. This is the coolest.=20
>=20
>  This little jedi mind trick is kinda freaky, till you think about it =
a=20
little
>  while.  Then it's even more weird.=20
>=20
>  Just follow the instructions below:=20
>=20
>  DON'T scroll down too fast-do it slowly, and follow the instructions =
below=20
>  exactly, and do the math in your head as fast as you can. It worked =
on us.=20
>=20
>  FOLLOW these instructions one at a time and as QUICKLY as you can!=20
>=20
>  What is:
>=20
>  2+2?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  4+4?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  8+8?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  16+16?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  Quick! Pick a number between 12 and 5.  Got it?=20
>=20
>=20
>  Now scroll down...
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  The number you picked was 7 right?=20
>  Isn't that weird???
>=20
>=20
>  THE END!
>  Did it work for you?
>
     ..... twilight zone mix fading in .....=20
    =20
Peace
~Michael



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 23:45:40 1998
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From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6308c784.34cfc320@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:45:32 EST
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed
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Isn't that what's so nice about raving?? YOu don't have to be a good dancer or
a sexy dancer or a circle dancer to be special and have a good time.  Less
self consciousness and letting go to the music.  Hey!! And you burn a hell of
a lot more calories by just cutting loose than you do by busting out your
Home-Base-Shuffle.

          hugs on wednesday,
                  'trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 23:47:22 1998
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My mind continues to be quite disfunctional. I Picked 6
My Jedi Mojo  is not up to snuff.

kbOOM



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 23:52:48 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:54:39 -0800
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All those who let the groove cauze u 2 bust a move and don't worry how ya
look cuz the way ur dancin it's bewteen ur body and the beat of the bass say
wooo hoooo!!

MooK<><

ps- Super Woooooo Hooooo from me. When I hit the dance floor it ain't me
anymore, the music enters my ears and goes straight to ma buttay at that
point I have lost all control. But Iguess that's the whole point ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org <SFRaves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed


>Isn't that what's so nice about raving?? YOu don't have to be a good dancer
or
>a sexy dancer or a circle dancer to be special and have a good time.  Less
>self consciousness and letting go to the music.  Hey!! And you burn a hell
of
>a lot more calories by just cutting loose than you do by busting out your
>Home-Base-Shuffle.
>
>          hugs on wednesday,
>                  'trice the tekno diva
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jan 28 23:53:26 1998
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From: "U.A.A." <anarchy@galaxy.galstar.com>
Message-Id: <199801282353.RAA21032@galaxy.galstar.com>
Subject: NRR: Mark your calendar all you VU/Lou Reed Fans
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:53:19 -0600 (CST)
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Hello peoples!

I know its a little soon but I want all of you to mark your calendars because
on April 20th 10:00pm ET PBS will be showing a documentary on Lou Reed. I
have not heard too much about it but supposedly it was shown at sundance
(can anyone verify this?) and that the person who saw it had never heard of
lou reed before ( he must have been living under a fairly large rock), and he 
was interested in the film and the story as a whole.  It is directed by
Timony Greenfield-Sanders whomever he may be but I am eagerly lookign forward
to this.  I guess I need to break down and get cable reconnected by then.
Also it is supposed to be edited to fit in an hour timeslot suck eh ?

Hope all is well and happy wednesday.

herb

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:05:42 1998
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From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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Funny, I picked "carrot" . . .

ha ha ho ho and hee hee,
Steve.

kbOOM wrote:
> 
> My mind continues to be quite disfunctional. I Picked 6
> My Jedi Mojo  is not up to snuff.
> 
> kbOOM

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:06:48 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:00:35 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP: DRUM & BASS FREAKS, LISTEN UP...
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I'm your pusher...

        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  
                                   * WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 4TH *
                                   * PHUNCKATECK LOUNGING IT...*
                                                        *
                                           DJs: JASON MOUSE
                                                  ABSTRACT
                                                     SAGE
                                                      NOEL
                                                       UFO
                                                         *
                                        location: VELVET LOUNGE
                                         443 BROADWAY ST, S.F.
                                       btwn. MONTGOMERY & KEARNY
                                                         *
                                                    9PM-2AM
                                                   21+ (sorry!)
                                                     5 bones
                                                         *
                             INFO/BOOKING LINE: 415.331.1500 ext.160
             =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hope to see you out...

PHUNCKATECK


*Music is life, the rest is just filler*



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:12:00 1998
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From: "Paula Sinclear" <hugpaula@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: What drives you to rave?
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Hi everyone, I haven't posted for a really long time.

Anyways, I questions for all of you.

What is it about a party that makes you go?  What do you gain by going?

Figure that I'm just a little burned out on partying, I was just 
wondering what you guys thought.


Paula


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:15:01 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: **BSP Trance force**
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   Friday, January 30th - Trance Force

Macadio, Dutch, MysterE, Ramtin, Dino, other special
guests. 
$10 b4 11pm - tix are limited.
http://www.tranceforce.com/ 

This will be a small party I am not sure of the time
I will be playing, but most likely 2-3:30 Hope to see
some of you there!!

Peace,
Macadio (Mack-Audio)

===
There's a strong relationship between music and art.
It's not so much
music or an art exactly, it's lifestyle. 
                                            -Jeff Mills










From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:38:42 1998
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From: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>
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Subject: Re: What drives you to rave?
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paula, dear-

> Hi everyone, I haven't posted for a really long time.
i just rejoined the list after 6 months, so i'm in the same boat.

> What is it about a party that makes you go?  What do you gain by going?
the music, the community, the people, the rush of dancing.

let me explain...
the music-  i absolutely love the sound of good music.  i'm pretty open
minded about the music type, jungle / techno / noise, i just love the
sound of it all.  and i love watching a good dj spin.  when i hear a good
dj, i can feel what he/she is going to do next, not like i can predict, i
just feel it.  talk about feeling the crowd...  or last week when i saw
consciousness labs at static, i could feel them vibing off the crowd.
that was incredible.

the community-
it's good to know that i'm not a friek for liking the music and the scene
that i do.  i like the reassurance, and the feeling that i'm part of
something larger than just me.

the people-
i really enjoy watching the people of all vibes interact - the candy
ravers, the adidas ravers, the slightly chubby computer geeks like me who
check their voice mail while dancing... i like watching all types do it
together.  and when i see someone i know out there, i feel very connected,
like we, independantly, decided that the best space for each of us to be
was right here.

the rush of dancing-
i don't move enough in my daily life, sitting in front of a computer all
day.  so i get a real rush from dancing.  i love the way that the music
moves me, i don't do the actual dancing, the music, those around me, and
the vibe of the whole place does the dancing for me.

well, that's my long winded answer.  hope it helps!

matt =)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:39:31 1998
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From: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>
To: 'Paula Sinclear' <hugpaula@hotmail.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: What drives you to rave?
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The music!

Check this quote out... it gives me goosebumps everytime I read it...
And I think about it often when Im at gatherings, or listening to
music...
StillWind (awesome trance DJ from Sac) gave it to me.. it means a lot to
me....

"There is something very wonderful in music.  Words are wonderful
enough, but music is even more wonderful.  It speaks to our hearts and
spirits, to the very core and roots of our souls.  Music soothes us,
stirs us up, it puts noble feelings in us, it melts us to know not how.
It is a language by itself; just as specific, in its way, as speech, as
words.  Just as divine.  Just as blessed."
Charles Kingsley (1819-75)  (from StillWind)

Peace!

gEoff ;)

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Paula Sinclear [SMTP:hugpaula@hotmail.com]
	Sent:	Wednesday, January 28, 1998 4:11 PM
	To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
	Subject:	What drives you to rave?

	Hi everyone, I haven't posted for a really long time.

	Anyways, I questions for all of you.

	What is it about a party that makes you go?  What do you gain by
going?

	Figure that I'm just a little burned out on partying, I was just

	wondering what you guys thought.


	Paula

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:44:28 1998
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To: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: RE: What drives you to rave?
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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My car! It's a jacked up 4 speed honda civic with 257,000 miles on it. It's
got a blower on the hood to keep the engine cool and fat inky tire rims
that stick out about 12 inches from the wheel well. Wood panelling looks
authentic too.

Check my 15 inch woofers.


;)

rob.
http://www.citzenmag.com



>The music!
>
>Check this quote out... it gives me goosebumps everytime I read it...
>And I think about it often when Im at gatherings, or listening to
>music...
>StillWind (awesome trance DJ from Sac) gave it to me.. it means a lot to
>me....
>
>"There is something very wonderful in music.  Words are wonderful
>enough, but music is even more wonderful.  It speaks to our hearts and
>spirits, to the very core and roots of our souls.  Music soothes us,
>stirs us up, it puts noble feelings in us, it melts us to know not how.
>It is a language by itself; just as specific, in its way, as speech, as
>words.  Just as divine.  Just as blessed."
>Charles Kingsley (1819-75)  (from StillWind)
>
>Peace!
>
>gEoff ;)
>
>	-----Original Message-----
>	From:	Paula Sinclear [SMTP:hugpaula@hotmail.com]
>	Sent:	Wednesday, January 28, 1998 4:11 PM
>	To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
>	Subject:	What drives you to rave?
>
>	Hi everyone, I haven't posted for a really long time.
>
>	Anyways, I questions for all of you.
>
>	What is it about a party that makes you go?  What do you gain by
>going?
>
>	Figure that I'm just a little burned out on partying, I was just
>
>	wondering what you guys thought.
>
>
>	Paula


rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:44:38 1998
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From: "Eric P. Peterson" <basslion@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: What drives you to rave?
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>Hi everyone, I haven't posted for a really long time.
>
>Anyways, I questions for all of you.
>
>What is it about a party that makes you go?  What do you gain by going?
>
>Figure that I'm just a little burned out on partying, I was just
>wondering what you guys thought.
>
Hi, Paula and sfraves!

This question keeps popping up on the list, doesn't it? :)
To answer both parts of your question, the first thing I look at in the
info for a given party is the dj line-up. Several elements of any party
are influenced significantly by what styles of music will be played, and
by whom. After some time, I reached a point where I could see who was
going to spin and think "Wow, that combination should really make for
a wonderful experience," or "Hmmm...that combination might make for
a pretty chaotic experience." I find that the music has a lot to do with
the vibe of a party, almost as much as the mix of people who attend.
So, knowing what kind of music I'll be hearing gives me an idea of how
the feel, or "vibe," will be. Add to this that I know some people who are
kinda like groupies for certain djs, so sometimes I can see who's spinning
and think "Oh, I'll probably see this person and that person there if I go!"
Location means little to me (as long as it's not Acme!). It's the music,
people, and vibe that entice me.

What I gain by going, if the party "goes off," is that somewhat obscure
phenomenon of experiencing the vibe, by participating in it. I let my own
love and positive energy flow on full blast, opening myself from the inside.
That way, I can both give to and receive from the overtone of energy, or
vibe, that permeates the gathering of people. I make new friends, renew
old friendships, get the thrill of hearing wonderful music that's never the
same twice, and give myself over to the music at times ("trancing out"),
to participate in this modern yet primal ritual of joining together with others
to celebrate life through dance. What I gain is a spiritual renewal unlike
any other.

Rave on, be safe, and let your love light shine brightly,
Eric



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:44:47 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR: Music is was(Re: What drives you to rave?)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:45:54 -0800
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"Music is the expression of the things we want to say but don't know how" -
anon

I liked this quote too

MooK<><
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>
To: 'Paula Sinclear' <hugpaula@hotmail.com>; sfraves@hyperreal.org
<sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: What drives you to rave?


>The music!
>
>Check this quote out... it gives me goosebumps everytime I read it...
>And I think about it often when Im at gatherings, or listening to
>music...
>StillWind (awesome trance DJ from Sac) gave it to me.. it means a lot to
>me....
>
>"There is something very wonderful in music.  Words are wonderful
>enough, but music is even more wonderful.  It speaks to our hearts and
>spirits, to the very core and roots of our souls.  Music soothes us,
>stirs us up, it puts noble feelings in us, it melts us to know not how.
>It is a language by itself; just as specific, in its way, as speech, as
>words.  Just as divine.  Just as blessed."
>Charles Kingsley (1819-75)  (from StillWind)
>
>Peace!
>
>gEoff ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paula Sinclear [SMTP:hugpaula@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 4:11 PM
> To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: What drives you to rave?
>
> Hi everyone, I haven't posted for a really long time.
>
> Anyways, I questions for all of you.
>
> What is it about a party that makes you go?  What do you gain by
>going?
>
> Figure that I'm just a little burned out on partying, I was just
>
> wondering what you guys thought.
>
>
> Paula
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 00:53:55 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: peter@niles.com (Peter Sandifer)
Subject: lotsa blank tapes! ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?55=A2?= each)  (NRR)
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
Precedence: bulk

yesterday I bought about 100 blank tapes, busted open the packages, and
then found out that my bandmates had done the same.   I just want to sell
them at the price  got them.  They're  TDK 90 min Type I, my cost was
approx. 55=A2 each.  Interested?  Buy as many as you need.  I live in the
Berkeley Area,  and travel to SF a lot.

you can call or respond to this.

Thanl<s,  :o)

Peter
510-558-8423 after 5pm



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 01:20:58 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:17:40 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: BSP: THE TOP (D & B)
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Tonight, January 28th, Buggin out presents....

      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                                          *VINYL TREETMENT*

bringin' tha cure:
        PUSH (STEP2K)
        GAMEKAT(JUNGLE LOVE)
     & NOEL(PHUNCKATECK)

location:
        THE TOP
        424 Haight St. S.F.
        10pm-2am
        21+
        3 bones

spread the word, come on down.....

        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

....On the 11th of February, BUGGIN' OUT & PHUNCKATECK present "11"!

Mark your calendars!!

For additional D & B info for the month ahead:

                                  http://www.bassbootycall.com

PEACE

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 01:24:26 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:23:52 -0800 (PST)
From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed/animal music
To: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
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> 
> a triangle- now that's what I've been missing!!!
> so what do you sfraves think about people who bring
> their own instruments to a rave- do it add or get in
> the way?
> 

i've always wanted to get a big 80's style "boom box", take it to a
rave, and play my "chorus of frogs" tape at full blast, right in the
middle of the dance floor.  or my sound effects cd, or a laugh track,
or maybe one of my jim jones motivational albums.  i'm just not sure i
_really_ want to be that obnoxious.  not that that ever stopped the
rhythmless whistle corps...

that reminds me, do any of you sfravers listen to albums of animal
songs?  i know it sounds bizzare, but "chorus of frogs" was in heavy
sleepmusic rotation on my cd changer for quite a while.  also, a
friend has this rad "the story of the wolf" album which is interesting
too.  not to mention the eternally classic "songs of the humpback
whale", and a few others i've got floating around my collection.  ok,
i'm a freak, i admit it.

actually, my favorite way to appreciate non-human aesthetics is to
just kick back on a remote mountainside in the north carolina summer
night, listening to the crickets sing while watching thousands of
fireflys dance in the air...

-messiah




---pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> a triangle- now that's what I've been missing!!!
> so what do you sfraves think about people who bring
> their own instruments to a rave- do it add or get in
> the way?
> 
> Oh, and about the dancing thing I am not too worried-
> I remember the words of my friend craig who advised
> me before going to my first rave that if I ever felt
> self conscious about my style just lok around me and
> chances are I won't be the only one, at least, who
> looks silly.
> 
> pjf looking to brin his little dingaling to the next
> rave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---megan hug <megan@medialive.com> wrote:
> >
> > well,  pjfuzzy~
> > 
> > i was lucky enough to see you dance 
> > (is that what you call it? just poking fun at...
> er... i mean with you...)
> > last night... and rest assured, you look nothing
> like ed grimley... 
> > he has a triangle all ready to ding, and well...
> you didn't.
> > 
> > ;)
> > i think that as long as you feel the music and go
> with it... you can't go
> > wrong!
> > that's why i love watching ALL people dance!  so
> many different styles,
> > attitudes, expressions... it's all so fun to watch...
> > 
> > i've got this friend named bryon... he has his own
> style of dance: be
> > dramatic and move everything as crazy as possible
> with out falling down...
> > his friends have named this dance technique "the
> byro-scope"...  gotta love
> > it, appreciate it, and give him all the respect he
> deserves!
> > not many people have the confidence to lose it like
> that.
> > 
> > "ding"
> > megan
> > 
> > pj~ i'll show you _my_ ed grimley impersonation
> sometime!  but _that's_
> > something i _can't_ do sober!
> > :)
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 01:34:45 1998
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To: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed/animal music
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>> so what do you sfraves think about people who bring
>> their own instruments to a rave- do it add or get in
>> the way

I love real instruments - ESPECIALLY drums!  If I see someone playing drums,
it is like I  am hypnotized, no matter where i am, and I can't stop moving
and I think I've seen my spirit helpers dancing with me on occasion.  At a
rave, I dig on instruments, although I imagine I would respect the DJ enough
to make sure they're cool with it.


>that reminds me, do any of you sfravers listen to albums of animal
>songs? 
>

Yeah, messiah baby, that is it.  I am such a Nature-Company lovin foo.  My
favorite is Sounds from the Tropical Jungle  (yeah, real jungle ha ha).   If
only I could be there for real......

kisskisskisskiss.....

oh shit there's too damn many of ya to kiss ya all!!

Terri


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 01:58:58 1998
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From: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR: the 13th sign - WAS - nrr: age of aquarius
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:57:00 -0800
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anyone heard of "ophiuchus"?  supposed to be a 13th constellation that
throws the 12 sign calendar out of wack...  

try a search, maybe combined with "astrology". 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 01:59:35 1998
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From: Karma2001 <Karma2001@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1819f869.34cfdf9f@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:47:09 EST
To: sushi888@mtnweb.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Please Help....R U joking?
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Ok...(buddy)-
 First off I truly sympathize with you NOT....sorry to be so harsh but dont
you think that post was just a bit BLUNT....seriously......who fucking
cares....if you are taking those prescription drugs in the first place maybe
you ought to reconsider doing recreational drugs...you make it almost sound as
if it is a neccessity....why dont you ask you doctor????? I know I may come
off as sounding like a beotch right now but to have a delema such as yours
almost seems like a joke....I think if you are having these problems then you
need to chose one or the other....I hope you make the right choice....E is not
everything and you are taking E then you are just going to eventually make
your depression even worse. I have so much fun at parties 100% sober
baby!!!!!! Come chill with me and you will realize that a natural high on life
happyness is so much better then the artificial one.....think organic.....ok
well peace....
                <3*MushyB!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 02:07:49 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:13:50 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Zoloft & Proazc both raise your serotonin level. MDMA & like drugs,
deplete your serotnin. Although, taking Zoloft right after doing e can
prevent any damage that e might have done and it will get you un-spun
really fast. If you are taking Zoloft you shouldn't be doing e. It's a
waste of money and it sorta dangerous.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

NavySatan wrote:
> 
> Can someone please tell me if the Anti-Depressant drug, "zoloft" cancels
> out or somewhat neutralizes the effects of Ecstacy?
> I notice since I've been taking Zoloft I haven't been feeling my ecstacy
> when my frineds have been taking from the same batch... if it DOES
> indeed neutralize the effect, it really doesn't matter, I just have to
> go sober, I like sober parties too...
> -Screaming with Hormonal Dysfuntion
> NaVySaTaN (eric)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 02:15:17 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:22:11 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
sex with animals...

...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were me.
There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
court.
Love,
Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog

fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> 
> NavySatan wrote:
> >
> > Can someone please tell me if the Anti-Depressant drug, "zoloft" cancels
> Can anyone tell me if taking too many drugs causes you to
> post on a public list that is monitored by police and
> the district attorney about how much they use and to ask
> incriminating questions even after being repeated asked
> not to by the moderator and other helpful people on the list?
> 
>         ><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
>                 foolish fish
> 
> > out or somewhat neutralizes the effects of Ecstacy?
> > I notice since I've been taking Zoloft I haven't been feeling my ecstacy
> > when my frineds have been taking from the same batch... if it DOES
> > indeed neutralize the effect, it really doesn't matter, I just have to
> > go sober, I like sober parties too...
> > -Screaming with Hormonal Dysfuntion
> > NaVySaTaN (eric)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 02:17:39 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: glittergirl@value.net (glittergirl@value.net)
Subject: NRR: Room availabe for March
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Hey, I am going to be out of town for the entire month of March, so if
anyone knows anyone who needs a place to stay during March, e-mail me or
give me a call at (415) 759-1787.  Rent=$300.  The flat is located at 4th
Ave & Lincoln Way in the Inner Sunset, less than a block from Golden Gate
park and only a few blocks from the upper Haight.  You would share the flat
with three wonderful females and two (usually) wonderful cats.  There is a
kitchen, living room, back yard, and washer (but no dryer).

*Robin*



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 02:18:46 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:25:04 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
CC: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What drives you to rave?
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Usually it's a friend, but on occasion it has been; the BART, the train,
my feet, and even my mom.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Robert Pointer wrote:
> 
> My car! It's a jacked up 4 speed honda civic with 257,000 miles on it. It's
> got a blower on the hood to keep the engine cool and fat inky tire rims
> that stick out about 12 inches from the wheel well. Wood panelling looks
> authentic too.
> 
> Check my 15 inch woofers.
> 
> ;)
> 
> rob.
> http://www.citzenmag.com
> 
> >The music!
> >
> >Check this quote out... it gives me goosebumps everytime I read it...
> >And I think about it often when Im at gatherings, or listening to
> >music...
> >StillWind (awesome trance DJ from Sac) gave it to me.. it means a lot to
> >me....
> >
> >"There is something very wonderful in music.  Words are wonderful
> >enough, but music is even more wonderful.  It speaks to our hearts and
> >spirits, to the very core and roots of our souls.  Music soothes us,
> >stirs us up, it puts noble feelings in us, it melts us to know not how.
> >It is a language by itself; just as specific, in its way, as speech, as
> >words.  Just as divine.  Just as blessed."
> >Charles Kingsley (1819-75)  (from StillWind)
> >
> >Peace!
> >
> >gEoff ;)
> >
> >       -----Original Message-----
> >       From:   Paula Sinclear [SMTP:hugpaula@hotmail.com]
> >       Sent:   Wednesday, January 28, 1998 4:11 PM
> >       To:     sfraves@hyperreal.org
> >       Subject:        What drives you to rave?
> >
> >       Hi everyone, I haven't posted for a really long time.
> >
> >       Anyways, I questions for all of you.
> >
> >       What is it about a party that makes you go?  What do you gain by
> >going?
> >
> >       Figure that I'm just a little burned out on partying, I was just
> >
> >       wondering what you guys thought.
> >
> >
> >       Paula
> 
> rob.
> http://www.citizenmag.com
> http://www.citiscape.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 02:26:24 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Hey, Prozac or Zoloft may be prescription, but they are also highly
psychedelic. At high doses they both have been known to cause
hallucinations.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Karma2001 wrote:
> 
> Ok...(buddy)-
>  First off I truly sympathize with you NOT....sorry to be so harsh but dont
> you think that post was just a bit BLUNT....seriously......who fucking
> cares....if you are taking those prescription drugs in the first place maybe
> you ought to reconsider doing recreational drugs...you make it almost sound as
> if it is a neccessity....why dont you ask you doctor????? I know I may come
> off as sounding like a beotch right now but to have a delema such as yours
> almost seems like a joke....I think if you are having these problems then you
> need to chose one or the other....I hope you make the right choice....E is not
> everything and you are taking E then you are just going to eventually make
> your depression even worse. I have so much fun at parties 100% sober
> baby!!!!!! Come chill with me and you will realize that a natural high on life
> happyness is so much better then the artificial one.....think organic.....ok
> well peace....
>                 <3*MushyB!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 02:33:17 1998
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Subject: NRR: Re: Please Help....R U joking?
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high doses of paul*e*wog emails seem to be causing hallucinations as well...

	everytime i read one of his posts... i can't believe my eyes!  



i MUST be seeing things.

m


At 06:31 PM 1/28/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
>Hey, Prozac or Zoloft may be prescription, but they are also highly
>psychedelic. At high doses they both have been known to cause
>hallucinations.
>Love,
>Paul*E*Wog
>
>Karma2001 wrote:
>> 
>> Ok...(buddy)-
>>  First off I truly sympathize with you NOT....sorry to be so harsh but dont
>> you think that post was just a bit BLUNT....seriously......who fucking
>> cares....if you are taking those prescription drugs in the first place
maybe
>> you ought to reconsider doing recreational drugs...you make it almost
sound as
>> if it is a neccessity....why dont you ask you doctor????? I know I may come
>> off as sounding like a beotch right now but to have a delema such as yours
>> almost seems like a joke....I think if you are having these problems
then you
>> need to chose one or the other....I hope you make the right choice....E
is not
>> everything and you are taking E then you are just going to eventually make
>> your depression even worse. I have so much fun at parties 100% sober
>> baby!!!!!! Come chill with me and you will realize that a natural high
on life
>> happyness is so much better then the artificial one.....think
organic.....ok
>> well peace....
>>                 <3*MushyB!
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 02:35:51 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:28:06 EST
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  Dsfunshnl1@aol.com
Subject: Re: NRR:  mind trick
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In a message dated 98-01-28 16:11:48 EST, LACIE_MURPHY@Non-HP-MountainView-
om3.om.hp.com writes:

<<      Am i psyco? i picked number 11.
      
      Lacie >>

sheesh i picked 3 then i realize i couldn't pick it and gave up, i think were
in the same boat :o)
JiL :o)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 03:00:53 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:58:11 EST
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Subject: RRe: Princess Di Used By Drug Dealers!!!
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In a message dated 98-01-28 21:49:29 EST, MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com writes:

<< 
 In a message dated 98-01-28 17:00:15 EST, raver@mcl.ucsb.edu writes:
 
 << British drug pushers are offering Ecstasy tablets with the image of 
  Princess Diana and the letters R.I.P.. >>
 
 actually newsweek this week an artical was printed about drugs floating
around
 the british club scene with pictures of famous political figures including
the
 queen and the late Di and Dodi... >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 03:18:39 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: goodvibe@geocities.com
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Please Help
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Paul,

 You are being argumentative and stupid like a little boy who will not 
grow up. Remember that there is a big difference between childish and 
childlike.

 If nothing else try to imagine the impact you are creating on others 
with your posts


>Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
>shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
>zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
>also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
>have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
>jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
>sex with animals...
>
>...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
>hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were 
me.
>There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
>court.
>Love,
>Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 05:01:38 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:07:54 -0800
From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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Let's Turn On the Light of the World!
The following was copied from http://www.lightshift.com

Jan 1, 2000 at 12:12 am there will be a global meditation
and celebrations including raves around the world at 
sacred spots like the pyramid of eqypt and peru, stonehenge...etc.

Imagine millions of men, women and children
merged in the same beautiful spirit

May we join together...
in a synchronized universal meditation
to raise the consciousness of all humanity
May we affirm...
to live a brighter new vision that all life can share

May we visualize...
a thousand years of peace on Earth starting with this moment

  May we embrace...
all people-whatever race, religion, non-religion, beliefs, or nationality

May we remember...
In the Heart there is no division - only Oneness in Spirit
We are All Children of the universe in the Family of Human

May the Beauty in our Hearts
the Brilliance of our Minds
and the Divinity of our Spirits, create this new Vision

May Love and Light fill our lives and change our World...
and from this Great Spirit may we come together to brighten the future

On January 1st, 2000
We Will Turn on the Light of the World

please feel free to copy and pass around

and visit there web site for more info.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 05:23:24 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:20:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: TeKnODiVa <TeKnODiVa@aol.com>
cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: grimley thoughts for a wed
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what??!?!? 
you're not supposed to DANCE at homebase, only SHUFFLE?
no wonder people laugh at me.
;)
lara

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, TeKnODiVa wrote:

> Isn't that what's so nice about raving?? YOu don't have to be a good dancer or
> a sexy dancer or a circle dancer to be special and have a good time.  Less
> self consciousness and letting go to the music.  Hey!! And you burn a hell of
> a lot more calories by just cutting loose than you do by busting out your
> Home-Base-Shuffle.
> 
>           hugs on wednesday,
>                   'trice the tekno diva
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 05:28:13 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:25:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Karma2001 <Karma2001@aol.com>
cc: sushi888@mtnweb.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Please Help....R U joking?
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I'd have to agree with MushyB on this one..

you're taking an ANTI-DEPRESSANT which REGULATES your SERATONIN LEVELS
because your seratonin levels are supposedly not up to par.

Ecstacy, or MDMA, fucks up your seratonin levels all whackedlike. 
that's kinda why, after doing E, you get these whacked mood swings the
week afterwards. or maybe you don't coz of your zoloft.

but seriously, if you're already taking a drug to moderate your seratonin
levels, you're just fucking up your mind taking something that gets your
seratonin all outta whack.
i mean, do you really like mood swings or something?
be careful..
just my humble opinion.
lara

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Karma2001 wrote:

> Ok...(buddy)-
>  First off I truly sympathize with you NOT....sorry to be so harsh but dont
> you think that post was just a bit BLUNT....seriously......who fucking
> cares....if you are taking those prescription drugs in the first place maybe
> you ought to reconsider doing recreational drugs...you make it almost sound as
> if it is a neccessity....why dont you ask you doctor????? I know I may come
> off as sounding like a beotch right now but to have a delema such as yours
> almost seems like a joke....I think if you are having these problems then you
> need to chose one or the other....I hope you make the right choice....E is not
> everything and you are taking E then you are just going to eventually make
> your depression even worse. I have so much fun at parties 100% sober
> baby!!!!!! Come chill with me and you will realize that a natural high on life
> happyness is so much better then the artificial one.....think organic.....ok
> well peace....
>                 <3*MushyB!
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 05:29:36 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:27:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Please Help
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ooooooOooOOoooOOooo


BUSSSSTEEEEDDDD!!!!!
*grin*

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
> shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
> zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
> also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
> have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
> jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
> sex with animals...
> 
> ...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
> hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were me.
> There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
> court.
> Love,
> Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog
> 
> fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:
> > 
> > NavySatan wrote:
> > >
> > > Can someone please tell me if the Anti-Depressant drug, "zoloft" cancels
> > Can anyone tell me if taking too many drugs causes you to
> > post on a public list that is monitored by police and
> > the district attorney about how much they use and to ask
> > incriminating questions even after being repeated asked
> > not to by the moderator and other helpful people on the list?
> > 
> >         ><{{{">  <"}}}><
> > 
> >                 foolish fish
> > 
> > > out or somewhat neutralizes the effects of Ecstacy?
> > > I notice since I've been taking Zoloft I haven't been feeling my ecstacy
> > > when my frineds have been taking from the same batch... if it DOES
> > > indeed neutralize the effect, it really doesn't matter, I just have to
> > > go sober, I like sober parties too...
> > > -Screaming with Hormonal Dysfuntion
> > > NaVySaTaN (eric)
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 05:37:20 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-28 21:05:28 EST, you write:

<< I have so much fun at parties 100% sober
 baby!!!!!! 

AMEN!

<<Come chill with me and you will realize that a natural high on life
 happyness is so much better then the artificial one.....think organic.....ok
 well peace....
               
HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE SOME PEOPLE TO REALIZE THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE?!!??!?!?

*wHeW* sorry for the yelling...strong emotion has been expelled...back to your
regularly scheduled programming.

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-
                     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------sniP------------------------------------------------------------------
------------

How do ya know that a female bartender is pissed of with you?

THERE'S A STRING HANGING OUT OF YOUR BLOODY MARY.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 06:50:54 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:48:33 -0800
Subject: Fiesta!!(mad House/Bipolar)
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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					 MAD  hoUse/BiPolar



                		  Ethan(F n' F)                         Joe Rice(F n, F,
MAD)                           									

					          
					     Fat Tony(Deep)


                               Ted(SAC)                                
DjQ(Swadeshi)




			      Live Performance by Baktun 13(New York)





            		      Forrest Green(sf)                  Pelican Boy(SAC)   
           



				       spEakeR  (23) (FreeRadio/Rapture)                


 		
OPtic(Boston/Isolation Zone) 

                   Peachfish(FreeRadio/Rapture)   
               


                             		      Sunflowerfish(S.P.A.Z.)



					        JANUARY 30, 1998



                                                          510.665.6524    
           


						             $5


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 07:15:52 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:22:56 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Take as much as you want, but please don't OD on me!
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

megan hug wrote:
> 
> high doses of paul*e*wog emails seem to be causing hallucinations as well...
> 
>         everytime i read one of his posts... i can't believe my eyes!
> 
> i MUST be seeing things.
> 
> m
> 
> At 06:31 PM 1/28/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
> >Hey, Prozac or Zoloft may be prescription, but they are also highly
> >psychedelic. At high doses they both have been known to cause
> >hallucinations.
> >Love,
> >Paul*E*Wog
> >
> >Karma2001 wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok...(buddy)-
> >>  First off I truly sympathize with you NOT....sorry to be so harsh but dont
> >> you think that post was just a bit BLUNT....seriously......who fucking
> >> cares....if you are taking those prescription drugs in the first place
> maybe
> >> you ought to reconsider doing recreational drugs...you make it almost
> sound as
> >> if it is a neccessity....why dont you ask you doctor????? I know I may come
> >> off as sounding like a beotch right now but to have a delema such as yours
> >> almost seems like a joke....I think if you are having these problems
> then you
> >> need to chose one or the other....I hope you make the right choice....E
> is not
> >> everything and you are taking E then you are just going to eventually make
> >> your depression even worse. I have so much fun at parties 100% sober
> >> baby!!!!!! Come chill with me and you will realize that a natural high
> on life
> >> happyness is so much better then the artificial one.....think
> organic.....ok
> >> well peace....
> >>                 <3*MushyB!
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 07:20:51 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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I love you too. Gimme a big kiss big boy.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Ran D. Dreams wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> 
>  You are being argumentative and stupid like a little boy who will not
> grow up. Remember that there is a big difference between childish and
> childlike.
> 
>  If nothing else try to imagine the impact you are creating on others
> with your posts
> 
> >Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
> >shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
> >zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
> >also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
> >have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
> >jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
> >sex with animals...
> >
> >...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
> >hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were
> me.
> >There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
> >court.
> >Love,
> >Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 07:22:11 1998
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From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: "jimg/skoop" <skoop@slackers.net>, "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
Cc: "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: weeklies in san jose ...
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:08:58 -0800
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jimg,

funny it took me forever to find the door to the basement of the agenda
... i always thought that you got in there by first going upstairs and
then back down through some hidden door but then i never found the
stairs from the second floor that went to the basement ...

You get access to the basement of the agenda by going through the door
that is on the street perpendicular to first street ... i cant remember
the name but if you look on that side of the street you'll find it ...

as far as hope for the south bay scene ... i wouldnt hold my breath ...

Rudi

p.s. what happened to that happy crew of ravers from the south bay who
called themselves 'charity' ... they had one party and then kind of
disappeared ...

-----Original Message-----
From: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
To: Rudi Rughoonundon <rudir>
Cc: SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: weeklies in san jose ...


>On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Rudi Rughoonundon wrote:
>
>> I try to hit the velvet shop every thursday ... its at the usual on
first
>> street ... same area where the cactus club is ... some good techno
but no
>> jungle so far ...
>>
>> on sunday evenings they have Nice in the basement of the agenda
lounge ...
>> last time i was at that one it was kind of empty so i am not sure
whether
>> it will survive very long ...
>
>okay, dumb question, but I've only been to Agenda once, and I went
>upstairs to hear some so-so jazz...how/where do you get to the entrance
to
>the basement?  And, what kind of tunes do they spin at this thing?
Sounds
>interesting....
>
>
>> i also attended a party called the green gorilla lounge which was
fairly
>> decent ... somebody told me it was a monthly affair - can anybody
confirm
>> that ?
>
>where???
>
>perhaps SJ is looking up afterall....
>
>-jimg
>
>ps. I'm about ready to clean out my garage, rent a pa, and have peeps
over
>in my garage...but I don't think the neighbors or my landlady would
love
>me very much.... ;)
>
>
>
>--skoop@slackers.net
>--http://www.slackers.net/~skoop
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 07:37:43 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR TIGERS!!!!
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Like it says HAVEAHAPPITYHOPPITYHIPPITYWHOOOEEEETIGERNEWYEAR!!!!!!


:)
M&m


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 08:47:06 1998
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From: Karma2001 <Karma2001@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:46:40 EST
To: lara@vibe.org, goodvibe@geocities.com
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AFUCKINGMEN....I am so glad someone is on the same level as I am.....foolish
fish...you kick ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ><{{{*>~  

                                          <3*MushyB!




<< Can someone please tell me if the Anti-Depressant drug, "zoloft" cancels
 > > Can anyone tell me if taking too many drugs causes you to
 > > post on a public list that is monitored by police and
 > > the district attorney about how much they use and to ask
 > > incriminating questions even after being repeated asked
 > > not to by the moderator and other helpful people on the list?
 > > 
 > >         ><{{{">  <"}}}><
 > > 
 > >                 foolish fish >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 08:47:37 1998
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Karma2001 wrote:
> 
> Ok...(buddy)-
>  First off I truly sympathize with you NOT....sorry to be so harsh but dont
> you think that post was just a bit BLUNT....seriously......who fucking
> cares....if you are taking those prescription drugs in the first place maybe
> you ought to reconsider doing recreational drugs...you make it almost sound as
> if it is a neccessity....why dont you ask you doctor????? I know I may come
> off as sounding like a beotch right now but to have a delema such as yours
> almost seems like a joke....I think if you are having these problems then you
> need to chose one or the other....I hope you make the right choice....E is not
> everything and you are taking E then you are just going to eventually make
> your depression even worse. I have so much fun at parties 100% sober
> baby!!!!!! Come chill with me and you will realize that a natural high on life
> happyness is so much better then the artificial one.....think organic.....ok
> well peace....
>                 <3*MushyB!



  Wow, it seems alot fo people have little attitude problems here, no
wonder why i didn't post things on here very much. I would klike it to
be known that I have no problems not doing drugs at parties, and I don't
go to parties and do simply drugs..... and Last, I didn't say the fact
that I didn't feel my "E" was a problem, I just wanted to know if it
were related to the fact that i was taking Zoloft. If i'm going to get
attacked here, wll, that just doesn't sound too "plur"-fle here. I don't
care, I think it's great to be blunt, I had a question, and some nice
peopel answered it, I didn't know I was using this forum to become a
target of some superficial ego attack. This place is all superficial
anyways..... to those hwo helped me, and to those who warned me to take
care, thank you and I mean that... to those who merely saw the fact that
I was taking a drug and decided to cap on me for it, next time don't
bother, it's a waste of my readin time.
I don't mean to sound like a beeotch either, just staing my opinion
and boy it was FABULOUS!
*smooch smooch darling* we'll have to drink champagne to that
NaVySaTaN (eric)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 08:48:09 1998
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Subject: NRR: Birthstones Re:  All Aquarius Read This!
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On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Feathr333 wrote:

> I have always thought that the birthstone of Pisces was "Aquamarine", not
> Bloodstone????   Which one is accurate?
> 


-->Well, that's a bit complicated you see.  Bloodstone and Moonstone are 
the obscure alternative birthstones for Pisces.  Aquamarine I am not too
sure about, but the traditional birthstone for Pisces and the month of
February has been Amethyst.  Did you know garnet is the Birthstone for
January and not necessarily for Aquarius alone? Alternative stones for
Aquarius include Opal, but Opal also belongs to the month of October.
Basically, it all boils down to the question of which sparkly shiny color
of stone you like the best and wear that.  After saying that, I still want
to have an Amethyst in my class ring just because it has taken me so long
to find a really nice Amethyst :) I prefer Black Opals, Emeralds,
Black Pearls, Turquoise, Purple or Green Jade, Blue moonstones,
Labradorite, Tanzanite, Iolite, Lapis Lazuli, and the ocassional
Garnet, Amber, or Citrine.  The funny thing is (except for the
last three) all these gems are in the Blue/Green spectrum (or
contain parts of the B/G spectrum) which fits into my general
Astrological color preferances anyway. 
	You can also wear any gem in the world if you particularly 
associate yourself with some quality attributed to the stone...and 
they are quite numerous. I don't know about other people, but for
me, if I pick the right stone or the right stone picks me, after
some period of wear it is a part of me and if I take it off for
long periods of time, it feels like leaving a friend or bits of
myself are missing. I have this blue moonstone that I bought
sometime ago as a custom order and the color reminded so much of a 
sunny California sky that it helped me through the deepest darkest 
months of European winters; whenever I forgot what color the sky
looked like, I would look at my ring and know that gray skies
aren't forever :) Gemology is a really interesting area of study that I
recommend highly.


:)
M&m

...Dragons are associated with the color royal yellow, elemental water,
and desire...next Dragon year is 2000, expect change.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 09:05:10 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-29 03:42:24 EST, sushi888@mtnweb.com writes:

<< Wow, it seems alot fo people have little attitude problems here, no
 wonder why i didn't post things on here very much. I would klike it to
 be known that I have no problems not doing drugs at parties, and I don't
 go to parties and do simply drugs..... and Last, I didn't say the fact
 that I didn't feel my "E" was a problem, I just wanted to know if it
 were related to the fact that i was taking Zoloft. If i'm going to get
 attacked here, wll, that just doesn't sound too "plur"-fle here. I don't
 care, I think it's great to be blunt, I had a question, and some nice
 peopel answered it, I didn't know I was using this forum to become a
 target of some superficial ego attack. This place is all superficial
 anyways..... to those hwo helped me, and to those who warned me to take
 care, thank you and I mean that... to those who merely saw the fact that
 I was taking a drug and decided to cap on me for it, next time don't
 bother, it's a waste of my readin time.
 I don't mean to sound like a beeotch either, just staing my opinion
 and boy it was FABULOUS!
 *smooch smooch darling* we'll have to drink champagne to that
 NaVySaTaN (eric)
 
******************************************************************************
********************
   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DAMN I THINK IM GOING TO
CRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just straight got slapped in the face with that one....OUCH...my face is all
red....you have made a good point and I appreciate that...I admit it was a bit
harsh and I apologize for that one....but I feel I had legitimate reasons for
that behavior....the fact that a lot of people on this list have been tripping
out about what gets spoken about over this little SFRAVE Society because no
one wants people looking at their mail in the future while in the middle of
applying for a job or something (did that even make sense right there?)
Ok....so ya figure that after realizing people were tripping maybe you ought
lay low with the bluntness....do you see what I am saying here....however
again, I am sorry but I did reply to your post in a bad/offended mood....it
isn't everyday I get such a mean letter directed towards me so I hope that you
are understanding this and can shake it off....you are right it was absolutely
fabulous

               <3*mushyb!   
 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 10:52:27 1998
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I am putting up the form soon for the
vinyl co-op's new domain name.
It would be way cool if peeps sent in any name
they think will work. Thanks to the many of you
who have contributed. The vote form will be posted this
weekend.

N





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 13:45:02 1998
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In a message dated 1/28/98, Lara wrote:

<<you're taking an ANTI-DEPRESSANT which REGULATES your SERATONIN LEVELS
because your seratonin levels are supposedly not up to par.

Ecstacy, or MDMA, fucks up your seratonin levels all whackedlike. 
that's kinda why, after doing E, you get these whacked mood swings the
week afterwards. or maybe you don't coz of your zoloft.>>

MAN....
i don't even take cold medicine when i'm sick
i sure feel like a lightweight now.....

:D
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 15:53:22 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:50:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Help With A Track: Jewel
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Yes, I said Jewel. Last night as I was driving the
"old rental car" home from the city, I was listening
to 
Wild 94.9 to check out the 7pm mix  (no tape player
8( and I heard the most insane house song! It was
Jewel's "Foolish Games" done in a house version! Has
anyone seen this in the stores? Its one of the best
re-mixes I have heard in a long time. I mean a
loooonnngg time.

Thing is this, I had the chance to meet Jewel, by far
one of the most real and amazing people I have had
the pleasure of talking to. Which makes this even
more important to me. Also, she sings the song
differently in this mix and it is sooo phat. Help me
please, you know its just one of those rekkids I
would actually pay much more than it is worth, to have.

Layne





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 17:23:11 1998
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Help! Does anyone have a ticket for sale for any of the 3 Joe Jackson shows at
Bimbo's - Feb 6, 7 or 8? I just need one - thanks!    JD   :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 17:29:45 1998
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Karma2001@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-29 03:42:24 EST, sushi888@mtnweb.com writes:
> 
> << Wow, it seems alot fo people have little attitude problems here, no
>  wonder why i didn't post things on here very much. I would klike it to
>  be known that I have no problems not doing drugs at parties, and I don't
>  go to parties and do simply drugs..... and Last, I didn't say the fact
>  that I didn't feel my "E" was a problem, I just wanted to know if it
>  were related to the fact that i was taking Zoloft. If i'm going to get
>  attacked here, wll, that just doesn't sound too "plur"-fle here. I don't
>  care, I think it's great to be blunt, I had a question, and some nice
>  peopel answered it, I didn't know I was using this forum to become a
>  target of some superficial ego attack. This place is all superficial
>  anyways..... to those hwo helped me, and to those who warned me to take
>  care, thank you and I mean that... to those who merely saw the fact that
>  I was taking a drug and decided to cap on me for it, next time don't
>  bother, it's a waste of my readin time.
>  I don't mean to sound like a beeotch either, just staing my opinion
>  and boy it was FABULOUS!
>  *smooch smooch darling* we'll have to drink champagne to that
>  NaVySaTaN (eric)
> 
> ******************************************************************************
> ********************
>    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DAMN I THINK IM GOING TO
> CRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I just straight got slapped in the face with that one....OUCH...my face is all
> red....you have made a good point and I appreciate that...I admit it was a bit
> harsh and I apologize for that one....but I feel I had legitimate reasons for
> that behavior....the fact that a lot of people on this list have been tripping
> out about what gets spoken about over this little SFRAVE Society because no
> one wants people looking at their mail in the future while in the middle of
> applying for a job or something (did that even make sense right there?)
> Ok....so ya figure that after realizing people were tripping maybe you ought
> lay low with the bluntness....do you see what I am saying here....however
> again, I am sorry but I did reply to your post in a bad/offended mood....it
> isn't everyday I get such a mean letter directed towards me so I hope that you
> are understanding this and can shake it off....you are right it was absolutely
> fabulous
> 
>                <3*mushyb!
> 
Of course it's not a big deal. I'm just stating things how I see, and
perhaps I wasn't aware of how things went on around here, though I have
been here for a while. I just don't usually post. But next time your
aggressions towards others shouldn't be pointed at me, I was merely
using this place as a point of reference. We all live our lives
differently anyways don't we? ;) I wasn't get that much flack for my
e-mail, I got more help than anything else, so it's like totally no big
deal...
consider it shaken off...
:D
NaVySaTaN (eric)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 17:34:55 1998
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>  If nothing else try to imagine the impact you are creating on others
> with your posts

YEAH,

I'm offended by your blatant drug abusing attitude.
And

You made me laugh out loud you insensitive bastard.


kbOOM


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 17:37:35 1998
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Subject: (NRR) Rain and thingies-borring
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  Hello everyone, I have a couple of borring things to share with all of 
you.  Well first off, I now remember how to live "outside" of raving, 
thank goshie.  In our rainy wet times, I think it is a good time for all 
of you to go out and see a movie...and to take advantage of films, 
they're a good outlet and yes, they are fun.  A highly recommended movie 
to see by me "Ma Vie En Rose" in french it's My Life In Pink"  VERY GOOD 
for all you people into the artsy farsy films. It is about a little boy 
who believes that he is a girl...  
  Last night I had my first shift at my new job @ Pedro's in Los Gatos, 
I drove home walked into my house and Niagra falls was right over my 
head.  Pouring rain.  We have a rain gage up here and I had dumped it 
when I got here and before I went to bed I checked it.   3/4 of an inch 
between 11pm and 12am 2 inches total from 11pm-8am EEEWWW The ground is 
so saturated as it is, now it will be the time for mudslides blocking me 
from being able to live my live like a normle functionning human turd
I'm sinking now and have to go learn at shool.,
Sorry for wastin yer time,
Danny


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 17:41:03 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:47:00 -0800
From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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Subject: Just dough
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Harry Brocksieck wrote:
> 
> Subject:  Pillsbury Dough Boy obit
> 
> PILLSBURY DOUGHBOY OBITUARY
> 
>  Veteran Pillsbury spokesmodel Pop N. Fresh died yesterday of a
severe yeast infection.  He was 71.
> 
> Fresh was buried in one of the largest funeral ceremonies in recent
years.  Dozens of celebrities turned out including Mrs. Buttersworth,
the California Raisins, Hungry Jack, Betty Crocker, Chef Boyardee, and
the Hostess Twinkles.
> 
> The grave site was piled high with flours as longtime friend Aunt
Jemima delivered the eulogy, describing Fresh as a man who never knew
how much he was kneaded.
 
> Fresh rose quickly in show business, but his later life was filled
with many turnovers.  He was not considered a very smart cookie,
wasting much of his dough on half-baked schemes.  Still, even as a
crusty old man, he was a roll model for millions.
> 
> Fresh is survived by his second wife. They have two children and
another in the oven.  The funeral was held at
3:50 for about 20 minutes.

-- 
And now, a shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is Power

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 17:57:20 1998
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Me and my snowboarding accident injured leg have been unable to spaz out
as much as we would like to lately. Being kind of glued to one spot to
avoid tweaking out my scapula and its associated ligaments. My dancing
lately has regressed into that Goth Mystic Taffy Pull thing from my
earlier days of forlorn sorrow :(.

But in general I find that as soon as my body starts to move I kind of
forget what its doing. Perhaps a condition similar to, but definately
not identical to, the Sufi tradition of movement to inspire ecstacy. I'm
sure that if I saw a video of myself undulating and tweaking out I would
have no somatic recollection of the experience, kind of like that's
me???.

Movement is the best alterer of mood and mind?



kbOOM

pj fuzzy wrote:

> Me large bboy pants and glowsticks.  You pigtails and
> glitter.  We looked at each other briefly.  Thought
> you were really cute but to shy to say anything.  If
> you are interested call  1-415-dreamon leave message
> in box xxexee
>
> Sometimes I wonder if those missed connections are
> just written by bored editors of the personal
> section.  Not that I read the personals, I was just
> looking for holistic medicine and got lost.
>
> Yeah, right, so I was at liquid last night and I
> always have this recurring fear when I am dancing.
> Is any one old enough to remember Martin Short's
> Character Ed Grimley.  He was on Sat Night Live back
> in the early 80s.  He was teh one with the spike on
> top of his head and the Wheel of fortune fetish"Oh,
> to meet Pat Sejak, wouldn't that be the best, I must
> say."  Well, He had this really hilarious
> dance,totally geeky, and every now and then, when I
> am at a club or a rave, I think to myself- I don't
> look like that when I dance do I?
>
> But then sometimes I think- I hope, at least that I
> look that funny when I dance.
>
> pjf slippin and sliding to a club near you.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 18:07:34 1998
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To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
Subject: Re: NRR: Birthstones Re:  All Aquarius Read This!
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>	You can also wear any gem in the world if you particularly 
>associate yourself with some quality attributed to the stone...and 
>they are quite numerous. I don't know about other people, but for
>me, if I pick the right stone or the right stone picks me, after
>some period of wear it is a part of me and if I take it off for
>long periods of time, it feels like leaving a friend or bits of
>myself are missing. 

Yes!  I believe that a gem/stone can attune itself to your energies when you
wear it - you can also infuse it with energy according to your mood/state of
mind.  When you take it off, you may really be taking off a part of yourself!

The many-faceted gem for the many-faceted person ; )

Terri


 - 
Terri E. Young
Department of Entomology
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 18:16:19 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:20:06 -0700
To: Mike Wertheim <mikew@hyperreal.org>
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers (Re: Lightseed... )
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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>>BTW, I got into a discussion about the quality of sound coming outta these
>>things. I feel that since most house is digital from the onset (sampled and
>>tracked, etc.) that it really doesn't matter that it ends up on CD.
>
>Not true.  I know a lot of techno/house musicians, and 90% of them send
>their digital samples through an analog mixing board before recording it
>onto DAT.  (This will be less true in the future as digital mixing boards,
>like the Yamaha Pro Mix, become more popular.)

I don't understand tho. If a sample is digitized from the onset, doesn't
the analog mixing board inherit the "stepped" wavelength rather than the
"smooth" wavelength that analog to analog would provide.
Just because you run it through an analog mixing board, doesn't mean that
it adds the "sounds" that were compressed by the digital sampler.

Garbage in, Garbage out .. I would imagine. Not the CD's have garbage sound
by any means. Just an analogy.




rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 18:49:44 1998
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To: "'bABy HueY'" <poobear@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: (NRR) Rain and thingies-borring
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:48:54 -0800
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I saw that movie.. I thought it was pretty good too..

I thought the pseudo Barbie was hilarious..  and the French version of suburbia 
was cool...

 Funny to see how the French mimic Hollywood formula movies, but in the great 
French liberal style..  The ending was a little to neat and tidy.. but then 
again, they are trying to be "Hollywood like"

Hollywood would never touch that story line.. It's to "risky" and the "American 
public might get offended"   That crap keeps allot of really great movies from 
making it to local theaters.

It's definately a must see..

SKP>>



-----Original Message-----
From:	bABy HueY [SMTP:poobear@hotmail.com]
Sent:	Thursday, January 29, 1998 9:37 AM
To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject:	(NRR) Rain and thingies-borring

  Hello everyone, I have a couple of borring things to share with all of
you.  Well first off, I now remember how to live "outside" of raving,
thank goshie.  In our rainy wet times, I think it is a good time for all
of you to go out and see a movie...and to take advantage of films,
they're a good outlet and yes, they are fun.  A highly recommended movie
to see by me "Ma Vie En Rose" in french it's My Life In Pink"  VERY GOOD
for all you people into the artsy farsy films. It is about a little boy
who believes that he is a girl...
  Last night I had my first shift at my new job @ Pedro's in Los Gatos,
I drove home walked into my house and Niagra falls was right over my
head.  Pouring rain.  We have a rain gage up here and I had dumped it
when I got here and before I went to bed I checked it.   3/4 of an inch
between 11pm and 12am 2 inches total from 11pm-8am EEEWWW The ground is
so saturated as it is, now it will be the time for mudslides blocking me
from being able to live my live like a normle functionning human turd
I'm sinking now and have to go learn at shool.,
Sorry for wastin yer time,
Danny


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 18:57:56 1998
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To: Vortexbrad <Vortexbrad@aol.com>
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers/a rockin' CD DJ party
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Well,

Somebody make it happen. I could do it if y'all wanted to jam up to Sacto.
My friend Carlos Campos is down as well. He used to throw Common Ground up
here (which highlighted DubTribe a lot (now he is a commercial sell-out DJ
on the Zone up here.... ;) Hey, just kidding Carlos! I love you man.)
Anyway, something tells me not very many of you digital afficianado's would
wanna trek up to sacto.
I've got network connections (of the bandwidth kind) and we could hook up
with a live broadcast with the RealAudio server we've got for Citi:Zen.

We could call it - Alpha Test.

It would be a digital mix fest that was free or invite only or something.

Somebody give me a clue if they are interested! (Brian, Laura, Niels, etc.?)




>In a message dated 1/27/98 3:34:22 PM, lucke@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
>>Well then that makes three of you so far that I can
>>count. When can we expect a rockin' CD DJ party from
>>you kids? I wanna' see it action!!!
>>
>>
>
>I would have to second that motion  :o)


rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 18:58:34 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:00:35 -0800
From: Sharif Torpis <faust@grift.com>
Organization: Fleece Industries International
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The Anti-Tobacconites will soon see their anti-smoking
law repealed. Fines don't seem to be working anyway.

--
"Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 19:08:00 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:11:52 -0700
To: tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers/a rockin' CD DJ party
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Terri,

Cool. I'll keep tabs on people's interest. If I get enough in the next
couple of days, I'll put something together. Hey! Maybe we don't absolutely
need all those SanFranDisco Ravers to make it jump.

Oh, but we *would* miss having all of you crazzayy people up here in the
valley!

;)

rob.


>:):):):):):)Hey!!  I live in Sacto and there's plenty of us in Davis too.  I
>would be TOTALLY into a CD DJ digital mix pahtay.  But, I understand if
>there aren't enough of us up here .....
>:):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
>:):):):):):):):):):)
>:):):):):):):):):):)
>:):):):):):):):):):)
>
>luvs,
>Terri
>
>>Well,
>>
>>Somebody make it happen. I could do it if y'all wanted to jam up to Sacto.
>>My friend Carlos Campos is down as well. He used to throw Common Ground up
>>here (which highlighted DubTribe a lot (now he is a commercial sell-out DJ
>>on the Zone up here.... ;) Hey, just kidding Carlos! I love you man.)
>>Anyway, something tells me not very many of you digital afficianado's would
>>wanna trek up to sacto.
>>I've got network connections (of the bandwidth kind) and we could hook up
>>with a live broadcast with the RealAudio server we've got for Citi:Zen.
>>
>>We could call it - Alpha Test.
>>
>>It would be a digital mix fest that was free or invite only or something.
>>
>>Somebody give me a clue if they are interested! (Brian, Laura, Niels, etc.?)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>In a message dated 1/27/98 3:34:22 PM, lucke@rocketmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well then that makes three of you so far that I can
>>>>count. When can we expect a rockin' CD DJ party from
>>>>you kids? I wanna' see it action!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I would have to second that motion  :o)
>>
>>
>>rob.
>>http://www.citizenmag.com
>>http://www.citiscape.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -
>Terri E. Young
>Department of Entomology
>University of California, Davis
>Davis, CA  95616


rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 19:12:55 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, "'Sharif Torpis'" <faust@grift.com>
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it'll be a few weeks before we know. the gov has to pass it, then it can
go into effect *after* the first of '99. 


> ----------
> From: 	Sharif Torpis
> Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 12:00 PM
> To: 	sfraves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: 	Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
> 
> The Anti-Tobacconites will soon see their anti-smoking
> law repealed. Fines don't seem to be working anyway.
> 
> --
> "Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."
> 
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 19:18:03 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: "Paula Sinclear" <hugpaula@hotmail.com>
Cc: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: What drives you to rave?
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:17:39 -0800
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Why I go to raves -by Jeff Croop AKA mr_nStuff    =]:. ..

I just go to see what kind of shit people will make up about me next.

I go to see all the 16 year old girls give me dirty looks.

I go because I get off on people deliberatly bumping in to me and sticking
their feet out. Yep, it gives me great pleasure to not fall into their
plans. I am like a cat. Try and trip me if you can.

I goto raves to look for this black guy I have only seen twice at a ravE,
and both times I saw him he picked my spirits up and made me feel good about
my dance, I would like to thank him for it.

I go to ravEs to feel like a complete wreck.

I go because there is suppost to be a phat line-up.

I go because last year the same ravE was bomb, hoping it will be as good as
last time.

I go so I can hear people say "here comes Jeff" with a discusted/be-littling
tone in their voice. You know who you are. =]:..

I go to see how many times I will be called fag for looking at people dance.

I go because Carlos was on the flier.

I just go to make myself feel like an
idiotfoolstupidpatheticassholehas-been|used to look
good|speedfreakfryheadstonerdork.

Oops..... So much for lurking.
  =]:....

I miss you guys..
 Jeff
I guess I can manage deleting 100 messages a day.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 19:39:02 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:35:05 -0800
To: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org, "'Sharif Torpis'" <faust@grift.com>
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At 11:11 AM -0800 1/29/98, Josh Damon Williams wrote:
>it'll be a few weeks before we know. the gov has to pass it, then it can
>go into effect *after* the first of '99.
>
>
>> ----------
>> From: 	Sharif Torpis
>> Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 12:00 PM
>> To: 	sfraves@hyperreal.org
>> Subject: 	Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
>>
>> The Anti-Tobacconites will soon see their anti-smoking
>> law repealed. Fines don't seem to be working anyway.
>>
>> --
>> "Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."
>>
>>

Of course that's barring a voter referrendum to repeal any law signed by
that nazi Pete Wilson.  I'll be the first to make the anti-smoking law
permanent.


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 19:41:50 1998
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From: "moki4u2c@hotmail.com" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: song i.d. info
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I think it's Yhotu Yhindi's "Treaty"...I might have heard it before in a club
but not sure...anyone remember if this song was played here?...it's got a phat
house beat...

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hula.net
"...I waited outside your door for twenty hours..."

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 19:46:16 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:43:31 -0800
To: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>,
  tyyoung@ucdavis.edu (Terri E. Young)
From: "Jonathan R. Ingersoll" <jringersoll@ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: DJ Media Skippers/a rockin' CD DJ party
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <v04003a02b0f676589f78@[206.40.4.17]>
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Here's another Davis-ite saying, Let's get this digital party started!
There's definitely enough of us out here in the boonies *wink* to rock the
house.

Later,
Jon

At 11:11 AM 1/29/98 -0700, Robert Pointer wrote:
>Terri,
>
>Cool. I'll keep tabs on people's interest. If I get enough in the next
>couple of days, I'll put something together. Hey! Maybe we don't absolutely
>need all those SanFranDisco Ravers to make it jump.
>
>Oh, but we *would* miss having all of you crazzayy people up here in the
>valley!
>
>;)
>
>rob.
>
>
>>:):):):):):)Hey!!  I live in Sacto and there's plenty of us in Davis too.  I
>>would be TOTALLY into a CD DJ digital mix pahtay.  But, I understand if
>>there aren't enough of us up here .....
>>:):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
>>:):):):):):):):):):)
>>:):):):):):):):):):)
>>:):):):):):):):):):)
>>
>>luvs,
>>Terri
>>
>>>Well,
>>>
>>>Somebody make it happen. I could do it if y'all wanted to jam up to Sacto.
>>>My friend Carlos Campos is down as well. He used to throw Common Ground up
>>>here (which highlighted DubTribe a lot (now he is a commercial sell-out DJ
>>>on the Zone up here.... ;) Hey, just kidding Carlos! I love you man.)
>>>Anyway, something tells me not very many of you digital afficianado's would
>>>wanna trek up to sacto.
>>>I've got network connections (of the bandwidth kind) and we could hook up
>>>with a live broadcast with the RealAudio server we've got for Citi:Zen.
>>>
>>>We could call it - Alpha Test.
>>>
>>>It would be a digital mix fest that was free or invite only or something.
>>>
>>>Somebody give me a clue if they are interested! (Brian, Laura, Niels,
etc.?)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In a message dated 1/27/98 3:34:22 PM, lucke@rocketmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well then that makes three of you so far that I can
>>>>>count. When can we expect a rockin' CD DJ party from
>>>>>you kids? I wanna' see it action!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I would have to second that motion  :o)
>>>
>>>
>>>rob.
>>>http://www.citizenmag.com
>>>http://www.citiscape.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>Terri E. Young
>>Department of Entomology
>>University of California, Davis
>>Davis, CA  95616
>
>
>rob.
>http://www.citizenmag.com
>http://www.citiscape.com
>
>
>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 21:13:36 1998
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From: PHUNKN3@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:11:19 EST
To: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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LISTEN UP....

PHUNCKATECK has a new night for a monthly (Saturdays)......

IT'S @ THE TOP (just like the old dayz!!!)
                424 HAIGHT ST S.F.

The first one will be SATURDAY, FEB. 21ST 1998

STARTS @ 9:00 goes until 2:00

sorry, but it's 21+

5 BUCKS on the door.

Still working on the special guest.....

Also we will have a bi-weekly coming soon @ another location.
Stay informed thru our info line:  *415.331.1500  ext.160*

                                             spread the word...

Thank you for all your support and patience,
Noel
PHUNKN3@aol.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 21:17:40 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:10:35 EST
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LISTEN UP....

PHUNCKATECK has a new night for a monthly......

IT'S @ THE TOP (just like the old dayz!!!)
                424 HAIGHT ST S.F.

The first one will be FEB. 21ST 1998

STARTS @ 9:00 goes until 2:00

sorry, but it's 21+

5 BUCKS on the door.

Still working on the special guest.....

Also we will have a bi-weekly coming soon @ another location.
Stay informed thru our info line:  *415.331.1500  ext.160*

                                             spread the word...

Thank you for all your support and patience,
Noel
PHUNKN3@aol.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 21:24:23 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
cc: Josh Damon Williams <josh@lucaslearning.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org,
  "'Sharif Torpis'" <faust@grift.com>
Subject: RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, John S. Lee wrote:

> Of course that's barring a voter referrendum to repeal any law signed by
> that nazi Pete Wilson.  I'll be the first to make the anti-smoking law
> permanent.
> 
Oops! John called someone a Nazi. End of discussion. :-)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 21:28:11 1998
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From: Nathan <nholderbein@comsysdev.com>
To: "'John S. Lee'" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>,
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Cc: "sfraves@hyperreal.org" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>,
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Subject: RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:18:46 -0800
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Funny though, that you refer to Pete Wilson as a Nazi, and support a law restricting personal freedoms in the same sentence.

-Nate


 
Of course that's barring a voter referrendum to repeal any law signed by
that nazi Pete Wilson.  I'll be the first to make the anti-smoking law
permanent.


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 21:37:15 1998
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Subject: RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
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everybody got your email filters ready?

		[

At 01:18 PM 1/29/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Funny though, that you refer to Pete Wilson as a Nazi, and support a law
restricting personal freedoms in the same sentence.
>
>-Nate
>
>
> 
>Of course that's barring a voter referrendum to repeal any law signed by
>that nazi Pete Wilson.  I'll be the first to make the anti-smoking law
>permanent.
>
>
>"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
>Narcotics
>
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 21:42:12 1998
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From: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
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Subject: Smokers FOR the ban (was Re: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
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I decided that this ban on smoking in bars/clubs/etc was the PERFECT
opportunity to quit.  If you're anything like me, this ban makes it
sooooo much easier, as the HARDEST time to not smoke is sitting in a
smoky bar with a nice, cold beer in your hand.  Sure, I smoked a few
times, despite the ban -- I mean, my friend did<g> -- but some places
do actually enforce the thing, and you have to go outside to smoke,
which defeats the purpose.  Heck, I can't even smoke in my own
apartment (part of the lease)!

So, I'll be anxious and irritable for a week or so (last smoked
on Sat), and then I'll be glad I quit (again).

I'll be the guy at TranceForce who's climbing the walls.

I'm not condoning bans on personal choice, nor am I championing
the "right" to smoke in bars, as that topic has been beaten to
death.  I'm just advocating quitting (which I think most everyone
can get behind) and the ban makes it easier.

Cheers,
Steve.

Every time you light up a cig, imagine handing a quarter to
Bob Dole/George Bush/Rush Limbaugh and all the tobacco magnates
who own those three.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 21:43:28 1998
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To: breaks@lists.xmission.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: All the S.F. drum n' bass 411
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Scroll down for event listings etc. from the crews:  Eklektic, B.A.S.S. Kru,
Phunckateck Com. & others.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

E K L E K T I C   ****  T  O  N  I  G  H  T  ****

PLEASE JOIN US, January 29th for another soulful adventure with the drum and
the bass.

Tonight we present:   Honey B (jungle love) w/ Mc Angel (jungle love) &
Rebel-lion (Ground Score)

2/05    Polywog & UFO! (Phunckateck/Ground Score)
2/12    Snuggles & Slak (Forte/Stepwise Recordings) ONLY LEFT COAST APPEARANCE
2/19    Gamekat (jungle love) & Mike Bee (Cosmic Flux)
2/26    J-Boggie (Beatsauce - KUSF) & Flux (BASS Kru/Ground Score)

Eklektic
Weekly event, Thursday's
579 Howard Street BTW 1st & 2nd
$5 bones    10 -- 2     21+ sorry
415.332.5800 X 24-7

For gigging send packages to Ground Score - see below for addy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

B.A.S.S. Kru Events

Commencing every Monday starting in February 1998, the B.A.S.S. Kru
presents the rebirth of 

*****Audio Impact*****

February line-up:

2/2/98: B.A.S.S. Kru kickoff with DJs Stareyes (just back from the UK
with a batch of dubplates), Rinse, & Flux. $5

2/9/98: Special K & MC Skibadee, direct from the UK.  For those that
don't know, Special K was the engineer behind most of DJ Rap's hits on
her Proper Talent label, in addition to producing for Low Key, Monolith,
& Trouble On Vinyl.  He also runs a record shop called Vinyl Conflict
and has plans to start up a label with Jay D'Cruze.  Skibadee's talents
on the mic are just as fresh, check out the UK flow! Also playing are
B.A.S.S. Kru residents.  $7

2/16/98: DJ Fury from Lowerworld Prods. in Denver, CO.  The jump-up don
that's been tearin it up down south in LA for a while makes his first SF
appearance-- joined by the B.A.S.S. kidz.  $5

2/23/98: PACIFIC MADDNESS night! For one special night we give you all
the djs off this 6-pack tape set compilation from Red Tape distribution:
Machete (Junglist Platoon), R.A.W., and Crs? (Mictlan) from L.A. &
Rinse, Flux, & Stareyes (B.A.S.S. Kru) from SF.  Don't miss out on this
event, we're having 6-packs on sale for $30 this night only!!!!!

Monthly environment by Ghostribe Productions, Oakland
Mixtape booth from Red Tape
Location: the Cocodrie, 1024 Kearny @ Broadway in North Beach, SF
Info download: 415.332.5800 ext 247
18 & up, 10-2

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PHUNCKATECK COM. Events

  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  
                                   * WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 4TH *
                                   * PHUNCKATECK LOUNGING IT...*
                                                        *
                                           DJs: JASON MOUSE
                                                  ABSTRACT
                                                     SAGE
                                                      NOEL
                                                       UFO!
                                                         *
                                        location: VELVET LOUNGE
                                         443 BROADWAY ST, S.F.
                                       btwn. MONTGOMERY & KEARNY
                                                         *
                                                    9PM-2AM
                                                   21+ (sorry!)
                                                     5 bones
                                                         *
                             INFO/BOOKING LINE: 415.331.1500 ext.160
             =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SF drum n' bass websites:

junglism.com
bassbootycall.com
www.langan.net/basskru/events.html
www.sfstation.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SF Bookings - GROUND SCORE

For Jan. '98 representing the following talent...

Flux - B.A.S.S. Kru
Rinse - B.A.S.S. Kru
Star Eyes - B.A.S.S. Kru
UFO! - Phunckateck Com.
Sage - Phunckateck Com.
Felix the Dog - Black Diamond
tomas - Umoja Soundsystem
Rebel-lion - Ground Score
Phulid 

Ground Score Bookings & Management
415.332.5800 X 797
647 Cole Street
San Francisco, CA. 94117
groundscore98@hotmail.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RADIO SHOWS

Future Breaks:  Miss E (eklektic), Push (Step2K) & the Arc Angel Gabe Real
lay down the new wax and kick the drum n' bass knowledge each Saturday 4 --
5 PM, KUSF 90.3 FM.

Friday Night Sessions: Tune in to the Friday Night Session on
KUSF 90.3fm, Fridays from 9:30pm-Mid. with hosts Andrew Jervis (Ubiquity) &
Tomas playing a stellar selection of 21st century beatz.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~respect from all the SF crews~~~~~~~~
peace,
dmarie of Ground Score/Eklektic
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 22:03:22 1998
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First, before I ask a question, some RR jokes:
stop me if you've heard them

How many ravers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

10....1 to screw it in and 9 to say how much better it was last time!


What's the definition of a raver?

Someone who'll pay $30 for a party that might get busted, and $20 for a pill
that might be aspirin, but won't pay $2 for a bottle of what is sure to be
water.


Hope you got a kick out of that... Anyway, I'm new to SFraves and SF in
general but not new to raving so.... Hi!   What I wanted to say was it seems
to me that people who go to parties sober all the time appear to have this
"high and mighty" attitude.   Anyone else notice this?  I think it's very
commendable that people do this but it's not right for them to look down on
people who do use at parties.

Sorry to rant on my first post but hey, I'm sick and cranky.  

And yes, I do use occasionally but have no problem going sober at parties...

peace
nate

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 22:10:50 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-29-98 13:18


<<<Funny though, that you refer to Pete Wilson as a Nazi, and support a law
restric ting personal freedoms in the same sentence.

-Nate>>>

~~~Restricting personal freedoms?  Let's examine that statement for a second. 
Now I would like to say this, IMHO, personal freedom ends when it infringes
upon the personal choice of others not to be exposed to second hand smoke in a
public area.  You could equate "public" and tie it in to the whole greater good
idea, which in reality is the responsibility of the government right?  

The analogy about farts was inaccurate as far as the comparison to a real
health danger, but just as gross.  How many times do I have to relive my
asthmatic days as a child while I'm in a club going off dancing, just trying
to dance outta my bones and not being able to breathe?  The blatant restriction
to "my" (hence another person other than the smoker) freedom to untainted
oxygen (that's a general statement and not meant to start a discussion on air
pollution) is a move of holocaust proportions.  I know what you're thinking
already, a stretch right, extremist right?  Hah, didn't even know that was
coming, but really, killing quickly is different from killing someone over a
long period of time?

So for John Lee to call Pete Wilson a Nazi when Petey has so much power on this
issue regarding the lives (health) of so many people equal to the holocaust
victims is not a stretch if you look at it objectively.

BTW, I never hassle smokers in clubs or public places, I just move away. 
Although people who bring their cigarettes to the dance floor irk the S%$*
outta me.  Hey, to each his own, just don't make my choice for me de facto. 
Quit the cigs and drink heavily instead, just make sure you get a nice big car
with faulty brakes and a possessed accelerator pedal.


DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hula.net
"...I have your cat over here because it reminds me of you...but they lied when
they said cats have nine lives..."

John said: 
Of course that's barring a voter referrendum to repeal any law signed by
that nazi Pete Wilson.  I'll be the first to make the anti-smoking law
permanent.


"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics




			  << E N D   O F   M E S S A G E >>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 22:19:18 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:16:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Karma2001@aol.com
cc: sushi888@mtnweb.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Please Help....R U joking?I guess you werent
In-Reply-To: <6b05e162.34d04638@aol.com>
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i think the thing that bothers ME the most about the whole thing is..
you've been doing E for how long?? and zoloft for how long?
and JUST NOW you are asking about the dangers of it?!

yanno what i mean?
know what you're stickin in your head kids, i really don't want to have
coworkers with brains for mush coz they didn't know what they were
sticking in their mouth. 
i mean.. educate.. THEN decide what you want to do to yourself.
ya dig?
xo
lara

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 Karma2001@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-29 03:42:24 EST, sushi888@mtnweb.com writes:
> 
> << Wow, it seems alot fo people have little attitude problems here, no
>  wonder why i didn't post things on here very much. I would klike it to
>  be known that I have no problems not doing drugs at parties, and I don't
>  go to parties and do simply drugs..... and Last, I didn't say the fact
>  that I didn't feel my "E" was a problem, I just wanted to know if it
>  were related to the fact that i was taking Zoloft. If i'm going to get
>  attacked here, wll, that just doesn't sound too "plur"-fle here. I don't
>  care, I think it's great to be blunt, I had a question, and some nice
>  peopel answered it, I didn't know I was using this forum to become a
>  target of some superficial ego attack. This place is all superficial
>  anyways..... to those hwo helped me, and to those who warned me to take
>  care, thank you and I mean that... to those who merely saw the fact that
>  I was taking a drug and decided to cap on me for it, next time don't
>  bother, it's a waste of my readin time.
>  I don't mean to sound like a beeotch either, just staing my opinion
>  and boy it was FABULOUS!
>  *smooch smooch darling* we'll have to drink champagne to that
>  NaVySaTaN (eric)
>  
> ******************************************************************************
> ********************
>    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DAMN I THINK IM GOING TO
> CRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I just straight got slapped in the face with that one....OUCH...my face is all
> red....you have made a good point and I appreciate that...I admit it was a bit
> harsh and I apologize for that one....but I feel I had legitimate reasons for
> that behavior....the fact that a lot of people on this list have been tripping
> out about what gets spoken about over this little SFRAVE Society because no
> one wants people looking at their mail in the future while in the middle of
> applying for a job or something (did that even make sense right there?)
> Ok....so ya figure that after realizing people were tripping maybe you ought
> lay low with the bluntness....do you see what I am saying here....however
> again, I am sorry but I did reply to your post in a bad/offended mood....it
> isn't everyday I get such a mean letter directed towards me so I hope that you
> are understanding this and can shake it off....you are right it was absolutely
> fabulous
> 
>                <3*mushyb!   
>  
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 22:21:19 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:18:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Natasha426 <Natasha426@aol.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Please Help....R U joking?
In-Reply-To: <aa9d5ec8.34d0849c@aol.com>
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nah don't feel like a lightweight:)
my friend josh's been raving since '92, and he hasn't even smoked a
cigarette, or had any alcohol (except for when he used to go to church).
he doesnt even use aspirin for headaches, he just toughs them out.
and he stays away from caffiene :) 
and he kicks ass :)
props.
xo
lara
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Natasha426 wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 1/28/98, Lara wrote:
> 
> <<you're taking an ANTI-DEPRESSANT which REGULATES your SERATONIN LEVELS
> because your seratonin levels are supposedly not up to par.
> 
> Ecstacy, or MDMA, fucks up your seratonin levels all whackedlike. 
> that's kinda why, after doing E, you get these whacked mood swings the
> week afterwards. or maybe you don't coz of your zoloft.>>
> 
> MAN....
> i don't even take cold medicine when i'm sick
> i sure feel like a lightweight now.....
> 
> :D
> natasha
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 22:34:21 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:31:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: PHUNKN3@aol.com
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: BSP: PHUNCKATECK MONTHLY!!
In-Reply-To: <f84aa2a9.34d0f079@aol.com>
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woohoo! a saturday thang!
question: oh fuck i forgot. anyway.
i'll be at the second one~~ no doubt!

finally gonna get my fix..
lara 


(selectah/sk3)

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 PHUNKN3@aol.com wrote:

> LISTEN UP....
> 
> PHUNCKATECK has a new night for a monthly (Saturdays)......
> 
> IT'S @ THE TOP (just like the old dayz!!!)
>                 424 HAIGHT ST S.F.
> 
> The first one will be SATURDAY, FEB. 21ST 1998
> 
> STARTS @ 9:00 goes until 2:00
> 
> sorry, but it's 21+
> 
> 5 BUCKS on the door.
> 
> Still working on the special guest.....
> 
> Also we will have a bi-weekly coming soon @ another location.
> Stay informed thru our info line:  *415.331.1500  ext.160*
> 
>                                              spread the word...
> 
> Thank you for all your support and patience,
> Noel
> PHUNKN3@aol.com
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 22:49:52 1998
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You're part of something special... You get to dance all night to intense
music.  you meet hundreds of diverse people.  You have fun.  you smile.  you
get away with it.  you have a creative outlet.  You burn off unused and pent
up energies.

       and this is just the surface

     hugs n'stuff,
        'trice

 "raving is not a way of life.. life is a way of raving."  --lara

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 23:17:34 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:15:24 -0800
From: "Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net>
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To: Dsfunshnl1 <Dsfunshnl1@aol.com>
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Subject: Re: NRR:  mind trick
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Weeeeoooouuuu! Worked for me! So, why?

b.

Dsfunshnl1 wrote:

> Hey everyone... a friend sent me this... check it out!
>
> <snip>
>
> > <<
> >  Follow the force......let it flow within you......and feel the power of
> this
> >  fully operational mind trick!
> >
> >  Be sure to follow directions. This is the coolest.
> >
> >  This little jedi mind trick is kinda freaky, till you think about it a
> little
> >  while.  Then it's even more weird.
> >
> >  Just follow the instructions below:
> >
> >  DON'T scroll down too fast-do it slowly, and follow the instructions below
> >  exactly, and do the math in your head as fast as you can. It worked on us.
> >
> >  FOLLOW these instructions one at a time and as QUICKLY as you can!
> >
> >  What is:
> >
> >  2+2?
> >
> >
> >
> >  4+4?
> >
> >
> >
> >  8+8?
> >
> >
> >
> >  16+16?
> >
> >
> >
> >  Quick! Pick a number between 12 and 5.  Got it?
> >
> >
> >  Now scroll down...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  The number you picked was 7 right?
> >  Isn't that weird???
> >
> >
> >  THE END!
> >  Did it work for you?
> >
>      ..... twilight zone mix fading in .....
>
> Peace
> ~Michael




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 23:18:24 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-29 17:28:06 EST, you write:

<< What I wanted to say was it seems
 to me that people who go to parties sober all the time appear to have this
 "high and mighty" attitude.   Anyone else notice this? 

That's an unfair generalization! I haven't noticed any elitist straightedge
people =*]


<<I think it's very
 commendable that people do this but it's not right for them to look down on
 people who do use at parties. >>

Nobody ever said they were looking down on people who use at parties. A
statement was merely being made that it is possible to have fun raving
sober...that's it.

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 23:24:18 1998
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From: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
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To: fish1111@pacbell.net
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: [NRR]Re: world peace day
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So is this date supposed to be some sort of hybrid of Gregorian
(therefore the nice round 1/1/2k number) and Mayan (the 12 things has been
permeating 'enlightened' circles since a recent group of translations of
Mayan prophecies and calendar graphics) calendar cycles.

By doing this, they are tipping the hat to Roman rule, Christian doctrine
and a group of cultures that we know very little about.

The recent findings and writings of Aluna Joy Yaxkin, Robert Bauval and
Adrian Gilbert, Graham Hancock, and other proponents of the 2012 prophecy
(which this event is aligned with, I guess)  and other currently popular
"Mayan"  myths have been dismissed by scholars as a result of combining
speculation, unrelated records of multiple religious sects and consistent
confusion between Aztec, Mayan and other histories.  In addition,
astronomers don't jive with it either... the whole "birth channel"/dark
area in the milky way convergence has little merit in academic circles.
It does seem not mark any more a specific event than does the Gregorian
calendar's year 2000... just a cycling through of the names for days going
by.

The Maya left very little in terms of artifact that documented their
calendar and religious rites.  Many of the emblems and "stone" calendars
these "scientists" get their information from are actually Aztec (the Maya
had few stone artifacts remain to this day, although they did use paper...
little remains of either (a mere four Mayan codices have been uncovered if
I'm not mistaken), the Aztecs however had a great deal of stone artifacts
and structures remain, and much of our understanding of PreColumbian
history stems from these).  The discovering of the histories of these
people is an amazing group of finds, but should be met with great
speculation as more and more self professed prophets come forward with
brave new interpretations.

So the Aztecs are actually the source of a lot of the "mayan" information
we see... both histories are rather smeared (between the Catholic church's
passion for erasing other religions and the Spanish Conquistador penchant
for kicking ass and burning libraries, melting down everything gold and
killing everybody who didn't convert, there wasn't much to look at) but
they did have regular sacrifices often using unwilling slaves (and often
fanatically willing volunteers, to their credit) at the tops of pyramids
where the "offering's" hearts were cut out and the bodies thrown off the
side.  I won't say what they did with the heart, but records exist in both
Spanish records and neighboring tribe folklore outlining these moments
rather nicely... I don't get it. The pyramids of the sun and moon in
Mexico are stained with blood till this day... I can feel the PLUR
already.  I'm really glad about chocolate though (also brought to us by
the same folks). 

It's kinda like those "hands across America" things... if you need a day
to let you light shine and stop being a jerk with the faith that the rest
of the world will follow, today is the day.  Love cannot wait another day,
let alone till a day that will most probably be a fuggin mess (imagine the
amount of aspirin that will be ingested that morning... heh heh).  If
you're down with the whole Mayan thing, I would suggest approaching it
with a great deal of reverence and speculation... these books are selling
a lot of copies but aren't really getting the attention of the scientific
/ historical / theological community due to their methods. 

Finally... a quote from the page referred to in the first post...
THE VISION
      At 11:59 PM on December 31st of 1999, all of the calendrical cycles
of day, month, year,
      decade, century, and millennium will shift in a hopeful moment. 

Um... many calendars don't give a rat's fat ass about this date (Chinese,
Hebrew, I'm sure I'm missing several, not out of lack of respect but
expedience).  The 'significance' of this dates is miserably Eurocentric,
and seems to me to prey on those with little knowledge of world religions,
cultures and customs.

I'm not trying to make anybody look bad, I'm just saying that you should
all make your own conclusions.  In the absence of a common faith, perhaps
we should rely on scientific methods for determining how to best interpret
and collect this sort of data.  Some really good info is available here
if you are intersted in more information about the amazing cultures of
precolumbian middle america:

http://www.astro.uva.nl/michielb/maya/links.html

Also, is that Greenwich mean time (which wouldn't mean shit to the Maya)? 
Or will it be different for every time zone?  Or will it be Maya geography
centric (which would seem the appropriate chronological center, but isn't
indicated in any of the writings regarding this event). 

Let's turn on the light in our heads.

The ideas these people are propelling are for the most part the BOMB.  I
think convergence of peoples, dissolving boundaries and gaining further
understanding of ourselves and each other will become more and more
important, but not at the expense of the truth or responsible research.

The message is a confused one.  I think they just want world peace, which
should be a message of purity, not hazed by bunk assumptions about
astronomical, religious, calendric and various world faith prophecies.

I agree with a lot of their inspiration, and perhaps they should consider
narrowing their message a little to allow more people to understand it
without prejudice.

http://www.lightshift.com/Inspiration/gibran.html

Don't wait for somebody to tell you when to start believing that love can
change things... start when you're ready.

Peace,
AndyW

p.s.	Why does something like this have a .com address?



On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 fish1111@pacbell.net wrote:

> Let's Turn On the Light of the World!
> The following was copied from http://www.lightshift.com
> 
> Jan 1, 2000 at 12:12 am there will be a global meditation
> and celebrations including raves around the world at 
> sacred spots like the pyramid of eqypt and peru, stonehenge...etc.
> 
> Imagine millions of men, women and children
> merged in the same beautiful spirit
> 
> May we join together...
> in a synchronized universal meditation
> to raise the consciousness of all humanity
> May we affirm...
> to live a brighter new vision that all life can share
> 
> May we visualize...
> a thousand years of peace on Earth starting with this moment
> 
>   May we embrace...
> all people-whatever race, religion, non-religion, beliefs, or nationality
> 
> May we remember...
> In the Heart there is no division - only Oneness in Spirit
> We are All Children of the universe in the Family of Human
> 
> May the Beauty in our Hearts
> the Brilliance of our Minds
> and the Divinity of our Spirits, create this new Vision
> 
> May Love and Light fill our lives and change our World...
> and from this Great Spirit may we come together to brighten the future
> 
> On January 1st, 2000
> We Will Turn on the Light of the World
> 
> please feel free to copy and pass around
> 
> and visit there web site for more info.
> 
> 	><{{{">  <"}}}><
> 
> 		foolish fish
> 
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 23:26:17 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:15:35 +0000
From: Billabong <Bbong@goplay.com>
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It's true, last night I threw out my glow sticks and traded them in for
some spikes and leather.  NOFX is a legendary punk band and I wasn't
disappointed at all. First off, I ran into my first real girlfriend and
that was shocking to say the least. Ok, maybe it was more traumatic, but
fun none the less.  Then I ran into April, along with some other party
friends. We moshed around making our bodies bend in all sorts of fun
ways. NOFX played mostly old stuff including "I want to be an
alcoholic". If you get a chance to see these guys  in the city this
weekend. Be prepared for an awesome experience! It was good change of
seen, for a night! Take care

love punk raver,

Billabong


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 23:27:14 1998
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Subject: RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:24:26 -0800
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Good, I'm tired of going into bathrooms filled with smoke. That stinks, life shouldn't mirror high school.  Not mention, if I don't want to be around smokers then I should leave!

Billabong 

Sharif Torpis <faust@grift.com> wrote on Thursday January 29, 1998 at 10:59am:
>The Anti-Tobacconites will soon see their anti-smoking
>law repealed. Fines don't seem to be working anyway.
>
>--
>"Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."
>


------------------------------------------------------
| Go Play with GoPlay Email!
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000004 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 23:34:11 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:34:01 -0800 (PST)
From: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
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To: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Please Help
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Paul,

The list owner has mentioned this issue.  He has produced precedent that
this CAN have very negative effects on all those involved.  Email, as it
is passworded and authenticated IS admissible in court, and several cases
have already established this.  RESPECT the wishes of those who would like
this list to be a little less "hot" a topic.  It should be about raving,
not about wild speculation of what happens when you take this and that
together.  If it's not about the drugs, then perhaps we could go a while
without discussing them, eh?

>From my personal view, I'd like to see everybody quit drugs from time to
time, and you're showing warning signs (defensiveness, frustration with
current drug use patterns and side effects, curiousity about very hard
drugs/cocktailing, and persistent evidence of drug effects in the absence
of drugs) of someone who just might be due for a little break.

I'm not telling you to do anything, cause I can't, but with all due
respect, please work with us, not against us.  We're the very community
whose interests you're claiming to be looking out for.  This scene, as it
exists is more of a legal house of cards than you might think, and
tempting the powers that be does nothing for anybody here.

Peace,
AndyW


On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:

> I love you too. Gimme a big kiss big boy.
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
> 
> Ran D. Dreams wrote:
> > 
> > Paul,
> > 
> >  You are being argumentative and stupid like a little boy who will not
> > grow up. Remember that there is a big difference between childish and
> > childlike.
> > 
> >  If nothing else try to imagine the impact you are creating on others
> > with your posts
> > 
> > >Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
> > >shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
> > >zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
> > >also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
> > >have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
> > >jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
> > >sex with animals...
> > >
> > >...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
> > >hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were
> > me.
> > >There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
> > >court.
> > >Love,
> > >Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jan 29 23:46:11 1998
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To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.org'" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
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You're right, my bad (one of those days). Apologies to all.

-Nate
-----Original Message-----
From:	megan hug [SMTP:megan@medialive.com]
Sent:	Thursday, January 29, 1998 1:41 PM
To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject:	RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?


everybody got your email filters ready?

		[

At 01:18 PM 1/29/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Funny though, that you refer to Pete Wilson as a Nazi, and support a law
restricting personal freedoms in the same sentence.
>
>-Nate
>
>
> 
>Of course that's barring a voter referrendum to repeal any law signed by
>that nazi Pete Wilson.  I'll be the first to make the anti-smoking law
>permanent.
>
>
>"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
>Narcotics
>
>
>
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 00:26:08 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: NRR: Poor fishy
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:27:33 -0800
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I thought you might get a kick out of this sad sad story ;)
>dearest mook,
>     
>     there was once a flying dolphin, don't ask how he could fly, that's 
>not the issue.  it never is.  his name was Bob, but that's not the issue 
>either.  as he was flying over alabama, he became a bit parched, so he 
>popped in for a drink.  no one was very alarmed by his presence, they 
>were all too drunk to realize that he was from out of town. he chose a 
>long island iced tea to quench his thirst, unaware of  the night in 
>store. as Bob took off from the bar, he felt a little light headed, but 
>ignored it thinking it was just the elevation. as he came out of 
>blackout, he found himself in canada, rather than cancoun(without his 
>passport.)  as he tried to slip by the border patrol to the states, he 
>didn't quite go unnoticed.  
>     one man asked, "are you a flying dolphin?"
>     Bob replied, "no sir, I am just an ordinary citizen, eh?" 
>     not quite sure what to do, the men decided to take Bob to the 
>slammer.  "illegal alien" they called him.  the canadians thought it 
>would be safe to let him rot for a couple of days, and rot he did.  poor 
>Bob died of dehydration in his cell,clutching only to the thought that 
>he would never be able to play the piano again.
>                            
>                               THE END



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 00:26:49 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: jsl@twenty-hz.com, josh@lucaslearning.com, nholderbein@comsysdev.com
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org, faust@grift.com
Subject: RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
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 Last I knew poisining others was not a personal freedom. Thay privlage 
is reserved for big buisness intrests and corrupt governments.

>From Nate;

>Funny though, that you refer to Pete Wilson as a Nazi, and support a 
law restricting personal freedoms in the same sentence.
>
>-Nate
>
>

>From JSL;

> 
>Of course that's barring a voter referrendum to repeal any law signed 
by
>that nazi Pete Wilson.  I'll be the first to make the anti-smoking law
>permanent.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 00:33:22 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Dina Alemagna <dmarie@gvo.com>
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Scroll down for event listings etc. from the crews:  Eklektic, B.A.S.S. Kru,
Phunckateck Com. & others.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

E K L E K T I C   ****  T  O  N  I  G  H  T  ****

PLEASE JOIN US, January 29th for another soulful adventure with the drum and
the bass.

Tonight we present:   Honey B (jungle love) w/ Mc Angel (jungle love) &
Rebel-lion (Ground Score)

2/05    Polywog & UFO! (Phunckateck/Ground Score)
2/12    Snuggles & Slak (Forte/Stepwise Recordings) ONLY LEFT COAST APPEARANCE
2/19    Gamekat (jungle love) & Mike Bee (Cosmic Flux)
2/26    J-Boggie (Beatsauce - KUSF) & Flux (BASS Kru/Ground Score)

Eklektic
Weekly event, Thursday's
579 Howard Street BTW 1st & 2nd
$5 bones    10 -- 2     21+ sorry
415.332.5800 X 24-7

For gigging send packages to Ground Score - see below for addy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

B.A.S.S. Kru Events

Commencing every Monday starting in February 1998, the B.A.S.S. Kru
presents the rebirth of 

*****Audio Impact*****

February line-up:

2/2/98: B.A.S.S. Kru kickoff with DJs Stareyes (just back from the UK
with a batch of dubplates), Rinse, & Flux. $5

2/9/98: Special K & MC Skibadee, direct from the UK.  For those that
don't know, Special K was the engineer behind most of DJ Rap's hits on
her Proper Talent label, in addition to producing for Low Key, Monolith,
& Trouble On Vinyl.  He also runs a record shop called Vinyl Conflict
and has plans to start up a label with Jay D'Cruze.  Skibadee's talents
on the mic are just as fresh, check out the UK flow! Also playing are
B.A.S.S. Kru residents.  $7

2/16/98: DJ Fury from Lowerworld Prods. in Denver, CO.  The jump-up don
that's been tearin it up down south in LA for a while makes his first SF
appearance-- joined by the B.A.S.S. kidz.  $5

2/23/98: PACIFIC MADDNESS night! For one special night we give you all
the djs off this 6-pack tape set compilation from Red Tape distribution:
Machete (Junglist Platoon), R.A.W., and Crs? (Mictlan) from L.A. &
Rinse, Flux, & Stareyes (B.A.S.S. Kru) from SF.  Don't miss out on this
event, we're having 6-packs on sale for $30 this night only!!!!!

Monthly environment by Ghostribe Productions, Oakland
Mixtape booth from Red Tape
Location: the Cocodrie, 1024 Kearny @ Broadway in North Beach, SF
Info download: 415.332.5800 ext 247
18 & up, 10-2

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PHUNCKATECK COM. Events

  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  
                                   * WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 4TH *
                                   * PHUNCKATECK LOUNGING IT...*
                                                        *
                                           DJs: JASON MOUSE
                                                  ABSTRACT
                                                     SAGE
                                                      NOEL
                                                       UFO!
                                                         *
                                        location: VELVET LOUNGE
                                         443 BROADWAY ST, S.F.
                                       btwn. MONTGOMERY & KEARNY
                                                         *
                                                    9PM-2AM
                                                   21+ (sorry!)
                                                     5 bones
                                                         *
                             INFO/BOOKING LINE: 415.331.1500 ext.160
             =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SF drum n' bass websites:

junglism.com
bassbootycall.com
www.langan.net/basskru/events.html
www.sfstation.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SF Bookings - GROUND SCORE

For Jan. '98 representing the following talent...

Flux - B.A.S.S. Kru
Rinse - B.A.S.S. Kru
Star Eyes - B.A.S.S. Kru
UFO! - Phunckateck Com.
Sage - Phunckateck Com.
Felix the Dog - Black Diamond
tomas - Umoja Soundsystem
Rebel-lion - Ground Score
Phulid 

Ground Score Bookings & Management
415.332.5800 X 797
647 Cole Street
San Francisco, CA. 94117
groundscore98@hotmail.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RADIO SHOWS

Future Breaks:  Miss E (eklektic), Push (Step2K) & the Arc Angel Gabe Real
lay down the new wax and kick the drum n' bass knowledge each Saturday 4 --
5 PM, KUSF 90.3 FM.

Friday Night Sessions: Tune in to the Friday Night Session on
KUSF 90.3fm, Fridays from 9:30pm-Mid. with hosts Andrew Jervis (Ubiquity) &
Tomas playing a stellar selection of 21st century beatz.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~respect from all the SF crews~~~~~~~~
peace,
dmarie of Ground Score/Eklektic
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




 For help unsubscribing from this list, email breaks-REQUEST@xmission.com
 with the subject "help". DO NOT SEND ADMIN REQUESTS TO THE LIST ITSELF !





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 00:43:49 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:23:37 -0800
Subject: I'm Baaaaaaaaack!!!!!  ; o ) 
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Hello there fellow SFRavers.  It is I, dErEk.  It's been a while since
I've been on this list but I just kinda missed being on the list again. 
When I left, I was totally into school and nothing much else.  I have
since gotten school back on track but at the same time, I totalled my
car.  So now when I get home from school, I take a nap, do the homework,
and then find myself with about 5 hours to kill until I go to sleep. 
Therefore, there probably won't be any harm in signing back on.

Ahhh.......home sweet home.

Talk to ya'll later.

Drekster


You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 00:52:05 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:49:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: TeKnODiVa@aol.com
cc: SFRaves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: What drives you to rave?
In-Reply-To: <333f361c.34d10682@aol.com>
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coz when i'm dancing...
i'm loving..
hating...
caring...
not caring...
thinking...
fighting...
imagining...
being,...
me..

and i can't think of anything else in this world that i can do to do all
those things all at once other than dancing. 
especially with a bunch of KICKASS PEOPLE around you.
and speakers taller than the sky
booming bass right through your body as if you were made of paper.
ya dig?
;)
lara

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 TeKnODiVa@aol.com wrote:

> You're part of something special... You get to dance all night to intense
> music.  you meet hundreds of diverse people.  You have fun.  you smile.  you
> get away with it.  you have a creative outlet.  You burn off unused and pent
> up energies.
> 
>        and this is just the surface
> 
>      hugs n'stuff,
>         'trice
> 
>  "raving is not a way of life.. life is a way of raving."  --lara
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:01:54 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:59:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: XGrRLsTrX@aol.com
cc: SpeedE420@aol.com, SFraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: aggggh2
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i've noticed a bunch of them.
but the funny thing is, the high and mighty ones are usually the ones who
are convincing THEMSELVES as well as yourself that drugs are bad.
the insecure ones.
who end up getting all fucked up one night and then end up total potheads
or tweakers or Ebabys or acidfreaks ;))
muwahahaha
only somewhat joking, my dear friends.
enjoy whatever you do, and let me tell you i sure as hell enjoy my life
right now :)
i hate preachers.
but i also hate people who don't stand up for what they believe in.
ok
hate is a strong word.
i'll shut up now and crawl under myt rock.
see what happens when i ditch work? i make a fool of my self :)~
xo
lara

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 XGrRLsTrX@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-29 17:28:06 EST, you write:
> 
> << What I wanted to say was it seems
>  to me that people who go to parties sober all the time appear to have this
>  "high and mighty" attitude.   Anyone else notice this? 
> 
> That's an unfair generalization! I haven't noticed any elitist straightedge
> people =*]
> 
> 
> <<I think it's very
>  commendable that people do this but it's not right for them to look down on
>  people who do use at parties. >>
> 
> Nobody ever said they were looking down on people who use at parties. A
> statement was merely being made that it is possible to have fun raving
> sober...that's it.
> 
> -=~*LaUrE@*~=-
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:13:11 1998
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From: "Py- Ro" <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org, nicholas@sirius.com
Subject: Re: Any domain name suggestions?
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This isn't really my suggestion, since it comes from Andy W's mouth, but 
here it is, along with another of my own:

www.Emunchers.com (Andy's, though not serious, it's pretty damned funny 
ain't it?)

www.spinvinyl.com (Is it just me or does the spelling of vinyl look 
weird? If it's wrong, correct it, and try it, if not I'm just trippin 
:))

That's mine, hope I don't get laughed at too much. :)


:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
    PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
    PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
    PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
    PP         YY       RR    RR    OO  

Pyro

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:15:33 1998
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From: Karma2001@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:09:32 EST
To: XGrRLsTrX@aol.com, SpeedE420@aol.com, SFraves@hyperreal.org
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In a message dated 98-01-29 18:30:11 EST, XGrRLsTrX@AOL.com writes:

<< < What I wanted to say was it seems
  to me that people who go to parties sober all the time appear to have this
  "high and mighty" attitude.   Anyone else notice this? 
  >>

All I have to say to this is, a comment  like that would come from a person
whose screen name is "SPEED420"...if I must blurt out my personal life and
business to everyone...I guess I will....I am not 100% sober at every
party...and I wouldn't call it a high and mighty attitude either....it's
called realizing that drugs aren't everything and I have to admit it...I think
that people who talk about drugs as if it the best thing in life have a
problem...you could call this "my opinion" I am just happy to say that I am
happy with my life and drugs have no part in that happyness....I'm not saying
there are never in the picture I am just saying that I do not revolve my life
around them....

                       <3*MushyB!

   do you ever find yourself thinking you are back in high school again....I
have been getting that feeling lately from other people

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:21:28 1998
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From: "Py- Ro" <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
To: SpeedE420@aol.com, SFraves@hyperreal.org, XGrRLsTrX@aol.com
Subject: Re: aggggh2
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Well, I haven't figured out how to get the stupid text to accompany the 
reply yet, but the statement that I'm replying to goes something like 
this...

blah blah blah, something about people who go to parties sober feel they 
are better, blah blah blah...

No offense meant by the blahs, but I think that those of us who go to 
parties sober, and I count myself as one, MOST of the time (hehehe, I 
can't say ALL the time, but most of the time...) I think that when I go 
to a party sober I might come across as high and mighty, but only 
because I am able to be at a party and have fun, sober, without the aid 
of chemicals (omitting herbs, because they are not drugs in my opinion). 
To me that is a pretty cool thing. Not many people can say that, and it 
is because of this that I feel a little bit 'higher and mightier' than 
thou. To be honest with you, I don't feel that I'm a better person, it's 
just that at that party I am more in control of myself, and am able, if 
the time comes, to deal with problems better, since I have that control. 
Not sure if my point came across or not, but I'm not saying that I feel 
like I'm better than you 'druggies' :::duck::: all the time, just at the 
time when I am able to have my pure and clean fun, when you aren't. Oh 
well, if you don't get it, email me and I'll clear it up, or at least 
try harder. Sorry to offend those of you that offend so easily, but 
trully, that is not my objective (I'm not angel either ;))


:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
    PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
    PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
    PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
    PP         YY       RR    RR    OO  

Pyro

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:23:03 1998
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From: "Py- Ro" <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
To: SFRaves@hyperreal.org, drekster@juno.com
Subject: Re: I'm Baaaaaaaaack!!!!! ; o )
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DErEk! Welcome back man, it's good to hear that you are ok. Hope that 
all is well, and I'm sure I'll see, or at least talk to you soon. :)


:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
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Pyro

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:27:54 1998
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From: Karma2001@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:27:36 EST
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Subject: ****I love you all****
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Ok everyone!!!!!!!!!! Attention!!!!!!!!!!
        I am getting a bit off track....I am posting things that reflect a
negative side of me and I feel like I am fighting a war on drugs. I do take
this list seriously but I try not to take it personally....because for one, I
dont know the majority of you and you dont know me....so all these opinions
are probably being formed just out of pure text....I do not judge people...it
may seem as if I am but Im not....I am merely stating my opinion in somewhat
of a defensive way. I am a college student...we are supposed to be that
way....I am not trying to tell people what to do I basically just trying to
get people to see things from a different perspective than they are seeing
it....because in my opinion it isn't healthy to put drugs up on a
pedistal....and I feel like people on this list think that they are...to me
that is sad....I am a very loving person and I just want everyone to be
happy=)<3(= So please people...let's try and be a bit more civil and remember
that this list is for discussions and not arguments and lots of other cool
things too....but not negative....and that is how I feel....negative....what
the fuck...PLUR please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

         <3*MushyB!

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:37:37 1998
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From: bonny <muggles@pacbell.net>
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just wanted to say hi to everyone, some of you i know from parties
ect....already, i'm also known as dj Shakti....i play occasionally at
small parties/gatherings...in ambient rooms mostly. By the way i also
mix and play off cd's mostly and prefer cd's over vinyl for mixing
ambient/down-tempo stuff, i think ambient sounds clearer on cd's (and i
can't find alot of the stuff i play on vinyl at all) but, i do like
vinyl alot still!! well, if anyone else here on the list is into ambient
and or dub stuff let's chat sometime!! i'd love some messages about that
type of music!! bye for now!!  =) bonny aka shakti

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:51:39 1998
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From: "Steven_Allas" <smallas.oramail@apollogrp.edu>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Any domain name suggestions?
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In-Reply-To: UNIX:IMCEAX400-c=US+3Ba=+20+3Bp=Apollo+20Group+2C+20In+3Bo=CorpExchGtwy+3Bdda+3ASMTP=sfraves-owner-Steven+5FAllas+2Eoramail=apol's message of 01-29-98 17:12

~~~how about www.rekkids.com~~~

DISCO 2000,
moki4u2c@hula.net

Pyro said:
This isn't really my suggestion, since it comes from Andy W's mouth, but 
here it is, along with another of my own:

www.Emunchers.com (Andy's, though not serious, it's pretty damned funny 
ain't it?)

www.spinvinyl.com (Is it just me or does the spelling of vinyl look 
weird? If it's wrong, correct it, and try it, if not I'm just trippin 
:))

That's mine, hope I don't get laughed at too much. :)


:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
    PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
    PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
    PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
    PP         YY       RR    RR    OO  

Pyro


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 01:57:02 1998
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From: "Easy Being" <meezy@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Fwd: Mr nStuff the Wise Man (was RE: O YA
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>Received: from 192.86.155.92 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>	Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:54:22 PST
>X-Originating-IP: [192.86.155.92]
>From: "Easy Being" <meezy@hotmail.com>
>To: meezy@hotmail.com
>Subject: Fwd: Mr nStuff the Wise Man (was RE: O YA
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:54:22 PST
>
>>>>If God is all powerfull, he knows all the decesions we will make,
>>>>(IMO, this is correct)  or has 
>>>>made them for us.(IMO, this is incorrect)  If this is so, why are we
>>>>'tested' here on earth? 
>
>WHEN I SAY 'YOU' IN THIS POST, I DON'T MEAN YOU PERSONALY.  I MEAN
>EVERYONE IN GENERAL.
>
>God has given us the 'Choice' not a "Test" (you know the whole Sh'peal
>about how life is full of choices).  He does know what we are going to
>decide, but he let's us decide.  We have to live our lives and find out
>ourselves what it was that we decided on Earth, whether to believe in
>him and be with him Forever or Not.  It's Our decision.  He not just
>going to say "Well I'm not gonna waste any time.  I already know that
>he/she's not going to Believe in me so I'm gonna send him to Hell now
>before he lives his life." because then we would be like..."Why am I in
>Hell?  I didn't decide to come here?"  Well God let's everyone live
>their life and gives everyone a 'Choice' so that everyone will "Know"
>what they "Decided".  He's not gonna make us like Robots and
>Program/Force everyone to Love him and Believe in him.
>        What if you had a Child and you Programed/Forced them to say "I 
>Love
>You" to you.  What kind of Genuine Love would that be?  It wouldn't be
>Genuine.  It wouldn't come from their Heart.  They just said it because
>you forced them to.  God wants Genuine Love, not Forced Love, and we
>want to give Genuine Love, not forced Love, which is why we have a
>Choice.
>        What if you had a Child that was taken away from you when she 
>was
>little.  Now, you're child is older and you want her to come back and
>live with you, but your child doesn't even remember you or know that 
you
>are her parent.  You wanted to communicate this to your child so you 
had
>a friend write a letter for you and deliver it to your Child.  In the
>letter, it would say something like...
>        Dear Child,
>                Your Father/Mother asked me to write you a letter.  
When 
>you were a
>Child, a very persuasive man convinced you to follow him and you did. 
>That is the guy that you think is your father now.  He actually isn't. 
>He convinced you to go with him and took you for his. Your Real Father,
>who is my Friend, Loves you very much and wants you to come live with
>him forever. All you have to do is follow these directions to get here.
>(directions enclosed).  Please call him so you can talk.  
>555-LOVE
>
>Now lets say she took the letter and said "Wow, this is a nice letter,
>but I don't believe this is True", then she set the letter aside and
>went on her business.  You wouldn't Love her any "Less" because she
>didn't believe you, but how can she live with you if she decided she
>doesn't want to live with you or much less if she doesn't even Believe
>you!  You know where she is and can take her back, but if she doesn't
>want to come with you, that wouldn't be right just to go get her and
>"Drag" her.
>
>You see..
>
>        You wrote her a letter (God wrote us the Bible) through a 
friend 
>of
>yours (through the people in the Bible) and told her that a long time
>ago a persuasive man convinced her to go with him. (and told us that 
the
>Devil convinced us "Adam & Eve" to not listen to God and go with the
>Devil)  It's up to us whether we want to go with him or go with "The
>Other Guy".  It wouldn't be right for God to just "Drag" us with him if
>we don't want to.  And just like your Child isn't gonna go with you if
>she doesn't believe you exist, how can we go with him if we don't
>believe he exists?
>
>        Nobody should be forced to go anywhere.  We should go where we 
>want to
>go and choose to go.  But we should at least be notified of what
>happened in the past and of the situation that we're in. (whether we
>like it or not)  That is what the Bible is.  It lets us know what
>happened in our heritage and in what situation we're in.  It's up to
>everyone to believe it or not.  I won't be mad at anybody or hate
>anybody for not believing it, I will just feel bad because it's their
>SouL that we're talking about.  I feel bad if people are called
>Blashphemous or any other names for that matter for not believing. 
>That's not gonna accomplish anything except for negativity, hard
>feelings and Bitterness.  Love is the Answer...
>
>
>>>>and how 
>>>>can we be held responsible for our actions, such as murdering some
>one, >>raping etc, when it was "God's decision that we do these
>>>>actions"? 
>
>(It's OUR decision to do these actions)
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 02:57:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:04:55 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
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I don't think Zolofot is an illegal drug. Wouldn't you rather someone
post thier concerns and questions regarding drugs than to wind up dead.
Or with serotonin syndrome? If you think there is no connection between
mind altering substances and raves then you need to read about the
history of raves and about othere cultures similar to raves. Where is
tie between drugs and raves? It's in the religion depp in the rave. Part
of the religion invloves drugs that alter your conciousness. Just
because this psychedeliphobic society doesn't like the fact that we take
drugs doesn't mean we should stop. It is not against the law to talk
about drugs. It is not against the law to question the law. It is not
against the law to want to do drugs safley. Stop stressing. If it really
becomes a problem Brain will tell me. It's his damn list he can boot me
off if he wants to. If he feel that my posts threaten this list then he
will tell me and i will comply, until that happens I will continue to
excersice my first ammendament.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

AndyW wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> 
> The list owner has mentioned this issue.  He has produced precedent that
> this CAN have very negative effects on all those involved.  Email, as it
> is passworded and authenticated IS admissible in court, and several cases
> have already established this.  RESPECT the wishes of those who would like
> this list to be a little less "hot" a topic.  It should be about raving,
> not about wild speculation of what happens when you take this and that
> together.  If it's not about the drugs, then perhaps we could go a while
> without discussing them, eh?
> 
> >From my personal view, I'd like to see everybody quit drugs from time to
> time, and you're showing warning signs (defensiveness, frustration with
> current drug use patterns and side effects, curiousity about very hard
> drugs/cocktailing, and persistent evidence of drug effects in the absence
> of drugs) of someone who just might be due for a little break.
> 
> I'm not telling you to do anything, cause I can't, but with all due
> respect, please work with us, not against us.  We're the very community
> whose interests you're claiming to be looking out for.  This scene, as it
> exists is more of a legal house of cards than you might think, and
> tempting the powers that be does nothing for anybody here.
> 
> Peace,
> AndyW
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> > I love you too. Gimme a big kiss big boy.
> > Love,
> > Paul*E*Wog
> >
> > Ran D. Dreams wrote:
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > >  You are being argumentative and stupid like a little boy who will not
> > > grow up. Remember that there is a big difference between childish and
> > > childlike.
> > >
> > >  If nothing else try to imagine the impact you are creating on others
> > > with your posts
> > >
> > > >Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
> > > >shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
> > > >zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
> > > >also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
> > > >have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
> > > >jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
> > > >sex with animals...
> > > >
> > > >...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
> > > >hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were
> > > me.
> > > >There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
> > > >court.
> > > >Love,
> > > >Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:02:20 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:55:22 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Harmony <ascend@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Harmony presents Innercense!!! (bsp)
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Hello sfraves!,

With our last event "Beautiful People," our message for the party was self
awareness and responsibility... It was very apparent that the message was
not only heard, but applied. We had a totally clean, beautiful, awesome
vibed Harmony party!!! It was, for us, very revitalizing and inspirational.
So thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

And with that thought we come to the next Harmony party... Our goal with
this party is to bring all of us to a high point of self awareness, and to
go deep into ourselves to find and share our pure love, our innocence, and
our phat positive vibes!!! 

It gives us great pleasure to present the next Harmony party!...

                                  ***Innercense***

With djs:      
                                   Christopher Lawrence (L.A.)
                       Urn
                                                       Li + Andy W.
      Greg + J-Bot                                           (2x4)
                     (2x4)                  Ethan
                                                                 Erik Brown
                                   (408)486-9591

This party will take place in a phat new indoor venue, just 30 min out of
San Francisco, in the beautiful Sonoma County. Tickets will be a limited
number of $20 at the door. Call the voice mail for presale ticket info...
There will of course be free water and fresh fruit available, as well as $1
bottles. Feel free to bring blankets, toys, water, and of course big huge
positive vibes to go all around!!! Come and check out the Harmonics
Clothing and Music booth, were we will be giving away some cool stuff!
There is much more to be announced so stay tuned! We can't wait! We hope to
see ya there!!

Peace and love,

Harmony = )

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:03:34 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Welcome to HELL!
Get used to it.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

bonny wrote:
> 
> just wanted to say hi to everyone, some of you i know from parties
> ect....already, i'm also known as dj Shakti....i play occasionally at
> small parties/gatherings...in ambient rooms mostly. By the way i also
> mix and play off cd's mostly and prefer cd's over vinyl for mixing
> ambient/down-tempo stuff, i think ambient sounds clearer on cd's (and i
> can't find alot of the stuff i play on vinyl at all) but, i do like
> vinyl alot still!! well, if anyone else here on the list is into ambient
> and or dub stuff let's chat sometime!! i'd love some messages about that
> type of music!! bye for now!!  =) bonny aka shakti

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:13:02 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:14:26 -0800
To: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
From: Megan Haggerty <megan@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: RE: Doesn't anybody read/listen to the news?
Cc: jsl@twenty-hz.com, josh@lucaslearning.com, nholderbein@comsysdev.com,
  sfraves@hyperreal.org, faust@grift.com
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At 4:26 PM -0800 1/29/98, Ran D. Dreams wrote:
> Last I knew poisining others was not a personal freedom. Thay privlage
>is reserved for big buisness intrests and corrupt governments.

Now that's what *I'm* sayin'!

*******************************
"Nothing exceeds like excess."
Elvira Hancock
*******************************



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:14:39 1998
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Subject: Re: Please Help
To: goodvibe@geocities.com (Paul Hayden)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:15:55 -0800 (PST)
Cc: andy@saturn5.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Reply-To: haze@netgate.net
In-Reply-To: <34D14357.B0E1F04B@geocities.com> from "Paul Hayden" at Jan 29, 98 07:04:55 pm
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Hmm, I could be wrong, but didn't Brian post a few days ago saying that
there's been too many posts about drugs on here lately and recommend that
they be taken to the newsgroups or drug specific listservs?

Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> I don't think Zolofot is an illegal drug. Wouldn't you rather someone
> post thier concerns and questions regarding drugs than to wind up dead.
> Or with serotonin syndrome? If you think there is no connection between
> mind altering substances and raves then you need to read about the
> history of raves and about othere cultures similar to raves. Where is
> tie between drugs and raves? It's in the religion depp in the rave. Part
> of the religion invloves drugs that alter your conciousness. Just
> because this psychedeliphobic society doesn't like the fact that we take
> drugs doesn't mean we should stop. It is not against the law to talk
> about drugs. It is not against the law to question the law. It is not
> against the law to want to do drugs safley. Stop stressing. If it really
> becomes a problem Brain will tell me. It's his damn list he can boot me
> off if he wants to. If he feel that my posts threaten this list then he
> will tell me and i will comply, until that happens I will continue to
> excersice my first ammendament.
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
> 
> AndyW wrote:
> > 
> > Paul,
> > 
> > The list owner has mentioned this issue.  He has produced precedent that
> > this CAN have very negative effects on all those involved.  Email, as it
> > is passworded and authenticated IS admissible in court, and several cases
> > have already established this.  RESPECT the wishes of those who would like
> > this list to be a little less "hot" a topic.  It should be about raving,
> > not about wild speculation of what happens when you take this and that
> > together.  If it's not about the drugs, then perhaps we could go a while
> > without discussing them, eh?
> > 
> > >From my personal view, I'd like to see everybody quit drugs from time to
> > time, and you're showing warning signs (defensiveness, frustration with
> > current drug use patterns and side effects, curiousity about very hard
> > drugs/cocktailing, and persistent evidence of drug effects in the absence
> > of drugs) of someone who just might be due for a little break.
> > 
> > I'm not telling you to do anything, cause I can't, but with all due
> > respect, please work with us, not against us.  We're the very community
> > whose interests you're claiming to be looking out for.  This scene, as it
> > exists is more of a legal house of cards than you might think, and
> > tempting the powers that be does nothing for anybody here.
> > 
> > Peace,
> > AndyW
> > 
> > __________________________________________________________________________
> > 
> > On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > 
> > > I love you too. Gimme a big kiss big boy.
> > > Love,
> > > Paul*E*Wog
> > >
> > > Ran D. Dreams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Paul,
> > > >
> > > >  You are being argumentative and stupid like a little boy who will not
> > > > grow up. Remember that there is a big difference between childish and
> > > > childlike.
> > > >
> > > >  If nothing else try to imagine the impact you are creating on others
> > > > with your posts
> > > >
> > > > >Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
> > > > >shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
> > > > >zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
> > > > >also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
> > > > >have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
> > > > >jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
> > > > >sex with animals...
> > > > >
> > > > >...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
> > > > >hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were
> > > > me.
> > > > >There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
> > > > >court.
> > > > >Love,
> > > > >Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________________
> > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> 



                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:21:00 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:08:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Horner <ng24sk3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Just moved to SF from the UK
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Hello,

My name is Lee, I am 27 and up until 2 weeks ago I lived in
Manchester, England (English born and bred). I have been lurking on
this list for the last 2 months or so, and you seem a friendly lot (on
the whole).

I have a wide variety of intrests, but one of my favourite things is
to go out and listen/dance to Techno/hip hop/trip hop and a little
house.

Could any of you suggest places to go. Or even better, do any of you
fancy meeting up with me and go out for a nights clubbing/partying?? 
I haven't a clue on where to go, and even worse I have no friends here
yet (sob!).


Lee. 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:26:45 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:29:51 -0500
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: ladgirl@mindspring.com (Lad Girl)
Subject: Re: AGHHHHH!
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>it seems
>to me that people who go to parties sober all the time appear to have this
>"high and mighty" attitude.   Anyone else notice this?  I think it's very
>commendable that people do this but it's not right for them to look down on
>people who do use at parties.

Alright, alright, I gotta come out of my hiding place for this shit.  I'm
crashing from the MW raves list, but I might be in SF before you know it.

I always rave sober.  I always get asked for drugs, but wouldn't have much
of the slightest as to where to direct these peeps.  I can sympathize with
the SF kid who posted a couple of weeks ago regarding bothersome drug
seekers.  His response was to drag their sorry ass to the speakers then
point out that there indeed was the ecstacy they were seeking.  AbSoLuTely!
No high.  No mighty.  Just the facts, kids.

To add,  I regard drugs as a necessary stimulant for some.  Some people
need a little boost in this depressing and culturally, emotionally,
spiritually restictive environment of USA/Planet Earth.  To each
his/her/its own road to freedom.

I must confess, I am very much drawn to people who use, or have heavily
used in the past.  They act like me, and make me feel more normal.  At
times when the party is dragging and the vibe is lagging, I've been known
to utter in dispair, "Damn, I wish these kids would drop some shit and get
their fucking heads out of their asses."

Whatever it takes, I'm THERE!!!

BTW Hello peeps from KC, MO, USA.

LadGirl@Mindspring.com
"Some more PLUR, please sir, I've run out."
Dead Artists Draw Flies
www.mindspring.com/~ladgirl/




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:28:53 1998
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From: "PlUr LoGiK" <jmrose@hotmail.com>
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Hey ya people!!!! Okay...so whats going on this weekend??
Where are you all going????
I have nothin to do....and no one to do it with *lol*
Let me know all the info for whatever is going on in the SF/SJ bay
about TRANSforce...who els eis going?
Went to the last one....really likes MYSTR-E....
NEway..page me people...dont have access to email for about two-three 
days....***OHHH NOOOOOOO***
(408)683-5985....
PlUr....
*HuGgZ*
PlUr LoGiK  aka Joy


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:38:41 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:41:48 -0500
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: ladgirl@mindspring.com (Lad Girl)
Subject: Re: AGHHHHH! To the Laura's
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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BTW, How many Laura's posted to this Aghhhhhh!?
I think that I make three, or is that four?

Weeeirrrd. . . .

Laura/Lara/Laure=High on Life.




LadGirl@Mindspring.com
"Some more PLUR, please sir, I've run out."
Dead Artists Draw Flies
www.mindspring.com/~ladgirl/



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:39:59 1998
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To: muggles@pacbell.net
Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: hi...i'm new to SF raves!! 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Jan 98 17:51:05 PST."
             <34D13209.2457@pacbell.net> 
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 19:39:52 -0800
From: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
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> well, if anyone else here on the list is into ambient
> and or dub stuff let's chat sometime!! i'd love some messages about that
> type of music!! bye for now!!  =) bonny aka shakti

I'm into music that isn't necessarily dance music. I tend to associate
"ambient" music with stuff that puts you to sleep, so I rarely enjoy
ambient. However, I like music other than "dance music"... especially
music that defies genres.

My favorite genre-defiance of late are the CDs "Planetary Folklore" and
"In with their arps and moogs and jazz and things" by "As One" (aka
Kirk DeGiorgio). Definitely some of the most different-sounding
"electronica" around. "Planetary Folklore" sounds like John Coltrane or
Art Blakey would sound like if they used synths and sequencers and
samplers instead of saxophones and drums. It's not ambient, but
it sure is pleasant.

Although I haven't been listening to much dub lately, I have a pretty
good selection of various Adrian Sherwood/On-U disks from the late 80's
and early 90's...  the last dub albums i got were released by cleopatra
records and are  rereleases of various hard to find on-u sound
recordings. "Dubbers and Toasters" and "In Dub Days"...

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
==>> Niels Mayer (mayer@netcom.com) <<>> http://www.cybertribe.com/mayer <<==
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 03:46:50 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:48:04 -0800
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>
Subject: now and then
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
Precedence: bulk

So does the scene change, or do we? Ever since I started going to raves in
'92 I heard that they were going downhill, that they weren't as good as
they were in '89, or '91, or '93, or '94, and so on. People blame the
promoters, the DJ's, the drugs, the newbies, the venues... It all goes
around again and again. It's  humorous after awhile, until you're the one
telling people about the good old days...

You realize how many people you don't see around anymore, how you don't get
excited every Saturday night calling a malfunctioning voicemail every five
minutes trying to find out where the damn map point is. Perhaps worst, you
start to feel like the scene owes you, not that you owe the scene.

Then you realize how much you cherish the old friends that you do see, and
the new faces you meet, and realize you can go anywhere in the world and
find something similar and you start to think maybe you're not quite so
jaded after all. =)

Huh. I must have slept too much last night.

While looking through the SFR archives the other day trying to figure out
what my first SF Rave was called (Haze theatre, late May or early June '93
- any ideas?) I read through a couple months of posts and realized how
relevant many of the posts seemed. Relevant not just in the sense of rave
related but in general thoughtfulness. While there seemed to certainly be
the same sorts of endless threads we experience now, there were also more
promoters and active ravers taking part in the discourse - in short it
seemed very much like a bunch of people excited they'd found something
common to share and eager to communicate about it.

Of course, this could just be nostalgia talking; as I wasn't on SFR back
then (still SoCal at that point) I'm curious as to the reflections of those
who've been on this list straight through from back in the day. (I know JSL
and Ethan were a couple names I recognized as still being active)

I'm sure the size difference accounts for much of how the list has
developed, but I'm also curious about how the list is seen from a new
user's perspective now as compared to how it was seen to a new user 4 or 5
years ago.

I'd also recommend checking out some of the archives - there's a history of
our scene there that's quite valuable.

Joe





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 04:13:53 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:13:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Reply-To: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
To: Lee Horner <ng24sk3@yahoo.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Just moved to SF from the UK
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Lee Horner wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> My name is Lee, I am 27 and up until 2 weeks ago I lived in
> Manchester, England (English born and bred). I have been lurking on
> this list for the last 2 months or so, and you seem a friendly lot (on
> the whole).

-->Oh we're not friendly at all, it's just a front to lure in unsuspecting
newbies like you.  There's a lot more flaming going on than present; it's
been kinda tame lately.  And usually everyone's taking a lot chemicals
with alcohol and nicotine and Ginko biloba to try and reply to all the
boring shite that's posted on this list.  None of the so-called people on
this list have any real lives (me included) cuz real people wouldn't have
time to read through all the 100+ posts that are spammed to the list
everyday--real people go out in the world and do stuff; unlike the bunch
of losers here.  But the absolute worst thing is, nobody on this list has
a sense of humour and they all get offended at the most mindless stuff and
start flame wars all over again cause that's the only drama they get in
their pathetic computer geek lives :)


> 
> I have a wide variety of intrests, but one of my favourite things is
> to go out and listen/dance to Techno/hip hop/trip hop and a little
> house.
> 
> Could any of you suggest places to go. Or even better, do any of you
> fancy meeting up with me and go out for a nights clubbing/partying?? 
> I haven't a clue on where to go, and even worse I have no friends here
> yet (sob!).
> 
> 


-->If you are staying in town this weekend, I really recommend you check
out TranceForce...the line up is pretty solid and the parties are usually
intimately sized.  I think I'll join CatWeasel's mission to Death Valley
this weekend...I'm not 100% sure yet, but pretty close.  If you are
spontaneous and like the music above, Death Valley will be lotsa fun
so come join us (incentive: daytime weather will be sunny in the high 
'70s to low '80s)--the boat leaves Friday nite at 2000 hours and will
return sometime Sunday morn for the 6-hour drive back to SF :))))
	You won't make any friends in this scene if the only places you
meet are at parties ;) Anyhow, make it a point to contact people outside
of the rave scene in semi-reality (like BBQs and MOvie nites or Din-Din
nights that occassionaly pop up on the list) and then they might be your
friends.  Afterall, I three hour confession of love on ecstasy just
doesn't have the same impact as that same confession from a sober person
:)  Don't get me wrong, first contact at parties is always a good
introduction, but don't let that be the basis of your whole friendship....
But you're 27, so I'm sure you know all 'bout that already.



:)
M&m


...All you people suck, hella crap, uptight anal retentive bastards all of
you...sorry, just venting...y'alls knows I wub yous; I'm just playin' and
anyone who flames me w/o some good humor attached needs to go work for
Baywatch.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 04:23:03 1998
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From: Geoff White <geoffw@cybertribe.com>
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>Of course, this could just be nostalgia talking; as I wasn't on SFR back
>then (still SoCal at that point) I'm curious as to the reflections of those
>who've been on this list straight through from back in the day. (I know JSL
>and Ethan were a couple names I recognized as still being active)
>


well I signed on the list about 4 or 5 days after it got going (I think).
I think the first Party that I went to that really turned me into a Raver 
was the Whoopie Ball in '92,  I was completely hooked after the FMR at Grey
Whale Cove around that same time.
Yes the scene has changed dramatically, but my take is that the biggest
difference was access to the music.  In 91, 92 the music was just not as
available as it is today.  Many of the parties were illegal so you were not
sure whether you would get in a full nights dancing.  Hell, you may not
even be able to find the party if you missed the map point or it got moved
suddenly.
All of this created an urgency and a feeling of conspiracy that isn't
present today.  It bonded us in special ways, like helping someone over a
barbed wire fence and running across some farm land to get into a party
after the police had shut down the access road.  Or lugging big ass
speakers down (and up again :) the long incline at Bonnie Doon.  Dancers
and Djs and Promoters were more level then, and more people felt like they
were co-creators of the party as opposed to going and relying on the
Promoter or the DJs to "do it" for them.

for some of us, the most important aspects of the scene were the
transformative aspects, you could literally dance off a few years of
conditioning in just one night, for those of us that shared that, the bonds
still hold.  But I think the big realization for some of us old timers is
that even though we may not be moved by many of the parties that are going
on these days, many people's lives are still being transformed by the
Scene, and that's the most precious thing.

Here's one for ol' times sake :)...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
NEXUS SYSTEMS/CYBERTRIBE-5 : Voice:(415)965-2384
Editor/Instigator/Catalyst : Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>

                      RAVE: For a better tomorrow

                --PGP Public key available upon request--
     "If I can't trance, I don't want to be part of your revolution"
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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 04:33:59 1998
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I like the first joke, but it was funnier the last time I heard it.

Keep it Real....   Vlad

SpeedE420@aol.com wrote:

> First, before I ask a question, some RR jokes:
> stop me if you've heard them
>
> How many ravers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
>
> 10....1 to screw it in and 9 to say how much better it was last time!
>
> What's the definition of a raver?
>
> Someone who'll pay $30 for a party that might get busted, and $20 for a pill
> that might be aspirin, but won't pay $2 for a bottle of what is sure to be
> water.
>
> Hope you got a kick out of that... Anyway, I'm new to SFraves and SF in
> general but not new to raving so.... Hi!   What I wanted to say was it seems
> to me that people who go to parties sober all the time appear to have this
> "high and mighty" attitude.   Anyone else notice this?  I think it's very
> commendable that people do this but it's not right for them to look down on
> people who do use at parties.
>
> Sorry to rant on my first post but hey, I'm sick and cranky.
>
> And yes, I do use occasionally but have no problem going sober at parties...
>
> peace
> nate




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 04:38:40 1998
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hey man, chiiilllll, someone pass the ganga to this one :) hehehe


:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
    PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
    PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
    PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
    PP         YY       RR    RR    OO  

Pyro

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 04:48:11 1998
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Subject: Re: Just moved to SF from the UK
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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try 510-665-6524 on Jan . 30..............


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 04:55:22 1998
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> > What's the definition of a raver?
> >
> > Someone who'll pay $30 for a party that might get busted, and $20 for a pill
> > that might be aspirin, but won't pay $2 for a bottle of what is sure to be
> > water.


THis one is hella funny, cheer up money is no object-we can all live in 
card board boxes.  *no idea where that one came from*

Teresa :)

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 04:57:15 1998
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TeKnODiVa wrote:
> 
> Isn't that what's so nice about raving?? YOu don't have to be a good dancer or
> a sexy dancer or a circle dancer to be special and have a good time.  Less
> self consciousness and letting go to the music.  Hey!! And you burn a hell of
> a lot more calories by just cutting loose than you do by busting out your
> Home-Base-Shuffle.
> 
>           hugs on wednesday,
>                   'trice the tekno diva

"Circle Dancer"...did someone say "circle dancer?"

I LOVE YOU!  :]

TERESA

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 05:30:17 1998
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        I've often asked myself the exact same questions.  And every time I
seem to come up with different answers... so therefore... I have concluded...
That IMO the underground is a constant, and it's the influx of attitudes, and
people that alter our daily perception of it.   Familiarity eventually fills in
all the cracks of mystery, and replaces intrigue and curiosity.  The longer you
stay in this scene the smaller it becomes, and eventually all the riddles have
been solved, and not much surprises you anymore.
        That's when you need to reflect, as you said, step out of it to see it
in a different light, and press the RESET button in your head... then you can
hopefully start the journey all over again...  at least that's what I try to
do...

keep it real....  Vlad



Joe Rice wrote:

> So does the scene change, or do we? Ever since I started going to raves in
> '92 I heard that they were going downhill, that they weren't as good as
> they were in '89, or '91, or '93, or '94, and so on. People blame the
> promoters, the DJ's, the drugs, the newbies, the venues... It all goes
> around again and again. It's  humorous after awhile, until you're the one
> telling people about the good old days...
>
> You realize how many people you don't see around anymore, how you don't get
> excited every Saturday night calling a malfunctioning voicemail every five
> minutes trying to find out where the damn map point is. Perhaps worst, you
> start to feel like the scene owes you, not that you owe the scene.
>
> Then you realize how much you cherish the old friends that you do see, and
> the new faces you meet, and realize you can go anywhere in the world and
> find something similar and you start to think maybe you're not quite so
> jaded after all. =)
>
> Huh. I must have slept too much last night.
>
> While looking through the SFR archives the other day trying to figure out
> what my first SF Rave was called (Haze theatre, late May or early June '93
> - any ideas?) I read through a couple months of posts and realized how
> relevant many of the posts seemed. Relevant not just in the sense of rave
> related but in general thoughtfulness. While there seemed to certainly be
> the same sorts of endless threads we experience now, there were also more
> promoters and active ravers taking part in the discourse - in short it
> seemed very much like a bunch of people excited they'd found something
> common to share and eager to communicate about it.
>
> Of course, this could just be nostalgia talking; as I wasn't on SFR back
> then (still SoCal at that point) I'm curious as to the reflections of those
> who've been on this list straight through from back in the day. (I know JSL
> and Ethan were a couple names I recognized as still being active)
>
> I'm sure the size difference accounts for much of how the list has
> developed, but I'm also curious about how the list is seen from a new
> user's perspective now as compared to how it was seen to a new user 4 or 5
> years ago.
>
> I'd also recommend checking out some of the archives - there's a history of
> our scene there that's quite valuable.
>
> Joe




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 05:34:11 1998
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Or how about the baggie pants that convert to a tent.
Just plug the glowsticks in for light or perhaps we could
use glow in the dark fabric.
Next time you find that you are homeless because you spent
your rent money on a party, just look for someone wearing really big
glow in the dark pants and just ask them if you can crawl into their
pants. 

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

----------------------------------
ravalum@pacbell.net wrote:

> THis one is hella funny, cheer up money is no object-we can all live in
> card board boxes.  *no idea where that one came from*
> 
> Teresa :)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 05:50:23 1998
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He sure did. He posted to everyone that we should keep it down.
And we have been.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Haze wrote:
> 
> Hmm, I could be wrong, but didn't Brian post a few days ago saying that
> there's been too many posts about drugs on here lately and recommend that
> they be taken to the newsgroups or drug specific listservs?
> 
> Paul Hayden wrote:
> >
> > I don't think Zolofot is an illegal drug. Wouldn't you rather someone
> > post thier concerns and questions regarding drugs than to wind up dead.
> > Or with serotonin syndrome? If you think there is no connection between
> > mind altering substances and raves then you need to read about the
> > history of raves and about othere cultures similar to raves. Where is
> > tie between drugs and raves? It's in the religion depp in the rave. Part
> > of the religion invloves drugs that alter your conciousness. Just
> > because this psychedeliphobic society doesn't like the fact that we take
> > drugs doesn't mean we should stop. It is not against the law to talk
> > about drugs. It is not against the law to question the law. It is not
> > against the law to want to do drugs safley. Stop stressing. If it really
> > becomes a problem Brain will tell me. It's his damn list he can boot me
> > off if he wants to. If he feel that my posts threaten this list then he
> > will tell me and i will comply, until that happens I will continue to
> > excersice my first ammendament.
> > Love,
> > Paul*E*Wog
> >
> > AndyW wrote:
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > The list owner has mentioned this issue.  He has produced precedent that
> > > this CAN have very negative effects on all those involved.  Email, as it
> > > is passworded and authenticated IS admissible in court, and several cases
> > > have already established this.  RESPECT the wishes of those who would like
> > > this list to be a little less "hot" a topic.  It should be about raving,
> > > not about wild speculation of what happens when you take this and that
> > > together.  If it's not about the drugs, then perhaps we could go a while
> > > without discussing them, eh?
> > >
> > > >From my personal view, I'd like to see everybody quit drugs from time to
> > > time, and you're showing warning signs (defensiveness, frustration with
> > > current drug use patterns and side effects, curiousity about very hard
> > > drugs/cocktailing, and persistent evidence of drug effects in the absence
> > > of drugs) of someone who just might be due for a little break.
> > >
> > > I'm not telling you to do anything, cause I can't, but with all due
> > > respect, please work with us, not against us.  We're the very community
> > > whose interests you're claiming to be looking out for.  This scene, as it
> > > exists is more of a legal house of cards than you might think, and
> > > tempting the powers that be does nothing for anybody here.
> > >
> > > Peace,
> > > AndyW
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > >
> > > > I love you too. Gimme a big kiss big boy.
> > > > Love,
> > > > Paul*E*Wog
> > > >
> > > > Ran D. Dreams wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul,
> > > > >
> > > > >  You are being argumentative and stupid like a little boy who will not
> > > > > grow up. Remember that there is a big difference between childish and
> > > > > childlike.
> > > > >
> > > > >  If nothing else try to imagine the impact you are creating on others
> > > > > with your posts
> > > > >
> > > > > >Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
> > > > > >shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
> > > > > >zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
> > > > > >also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
> > > > > >have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
> > > > > >jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
> > > > > >sex with animals...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
> > > > > >hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were
> > > > > me.
> > > > > >There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
> > > > > >court.
> > > > > >Love,
> > > > > >Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog
> > > > >
> > > > > ______________________________________________________
> > > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > > >
> >
> 
>                                    Haze
>  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
>  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
>  +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
>  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 05:57:58 1998
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Subject: RE: Just moved to SF from the UK...NRR
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:56:25 -0700
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There is Freak Show (at the Stud 9th & Howard or something near
there)...hosted by Cougar Cash ...Fennel Skelleyman with some Funk
singers & god only knows what else - he was jazzd last time I saw him

I mention as he really is also DJ Boner & he has a special pile-o-funk
in his heart so will put on a good show

I, of course, will be home trying to shake this STOOOPID flu bug in
hopes I can get out Sat & Sun nights but this may just be a decent time
if you need a place - he's a great performer & dj.


Sister Kitty
pusspuss@wetwetwet.com



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From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 06:09:23 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-29 22:35:18 EST, goodvibe@geocities.com writes:

<< Welcome to HELL!
 Get used to it.
 Love,
 Paul*E*Wog
  >>
 I CANNOT believe you just said that????????? I just dont get all this
negative flow..... Just call me Smooshy

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 06:25:54 1998
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i was inspired to write the following poem while listening to
the track "Soul Thought" from
*Astral Matrix*'s CD _Secret Broadcast_

...craddled by the bass, a modern lullaby
writhing i break my shell, pierce through,
step out of my skin, my spiritual being exposed...
transformation...
my entity pulsating in synch, craving every beat...
soaring, there is no horizon line, no barriers
transcendence
an endless connection creates a magnificant
constellation of other souls, all vibrating
with a unifying pulse...
the windows of my soul are wide open,
my mind even more expanse
soul thought.
~e~l~e~n~a~

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 06:46:09 1998
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I just started using OutLook for mail and without trying an attachment
got on my last message - not on purpose feel free to delete.

My apologies


Sister Kitty
pusspuss@wetwetwet.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 07:16:45 1998
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CORRECTION!  oopps! sorry Andrew, didn't mean to rename your track, i
accidently called it soul thought, but it's "SOUL FLIGHT" i was
obviously inspired by "LOVE THOUGHT"as well, cuz i combined both ;)
huggies absorb more PLUR,
~e~l~e~n~a~ wrote:
> 
> i was inspired to write the following poem while listening to
> the track "Soul Thought" from
> *Astral Matrix*'s CD _Secret Broadcast_
> 
> ...craddled by the bass, a modern lullaby
> writhing i break my shell, pierce through,
> step out of my skin, my spiritual being exposed...
> transformation...
> my entity pulsating in synch, craving every beat...
> soaring, there is no horizon line, no barriers
> transcendence
> an endless connection creates a magnificant
> constellation of other souls, all vibrating
> with a unifying pulse...
> the windows of my soul are wide open,
> my mind even more expanse
> soul thought.
> ~e~l~e~n~a~

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 07:27:32 1998
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From: MacBunny <akp2@acpub.duke.edu>
To: Karma2001@aol.com
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Subject: Re: ****I love you all****
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word - 

> 
> Ok everyone!!!!!!!!!! Attention!!!!!!!!!!
>         I am getting a bit off track....I am posting things that reflect a
> negative side of me and I feel like I am fighting a war on drugs. I do take
> this list seriously but I try not to take it personally....because for one, I
> dont know the majority of you and you dont know me....so all these opinions
> are probably being formed just out of pure text....I do not judge people...it
> may seem as if I am but Im not....I am merely stating my opinion in somewhat
> of a defensive way. I am a college student...we are supposed to be that
> way....I am not trying to tell people what to do I basically just trying to
> get people to see things from a different perspective than they are seeing
> it....because in my opinion it isn't healthy to put drugs up on a
> pedistal....and I feel like people on this list think that they are...to me
> that is sad....I am a very loving person and I just want everyone to be
> happy=)<3(= So please people...let's try and be a bit more civil and remember
> that this list is for discussions and not arguments and lots of other cool
> things too....but not negative....and that is how I feel....negative....what
> the fuck...PLUR please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
>          <3*MushyB!
> 
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confucious said "To know what you know, and to know what you don't know, 
is the characteristic of one who knows."

amber perry-mcquown

Peace				akp2@acpub.duke.edu
Love				plur@radonc.duke.edu
Unity				amber@earthling.net
Respect(Rave)			http://www.duke.edu/~akp2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 07:29:27 1998
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From: MacBunny <akp2@acpub.duke.edu>
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Subject: Re: Any domain name suggestions?
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nah dude you got it right.  i checked it on spell check.

> 
> www.spinvinyl.com (Is it just me or does the spelling of vinyl look 
> weird? If it's wrong, correct it, and try it, if not I'm just trippin 
> :))
> 
> That's mine, hope I don't get laughed at too much. :)
> 
> 
> :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
> 
>     PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
>     PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
>     PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
>     PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
>     PP         YY       RR    RR    OO  
> 
> Pyro
> 
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confucious said "To know what you know, and to know what you don't know, 
is the characteristic of one who knows."

amber perry-mcquown

Peace				akp2@acpub.duke.edu
Love				plur@radonc.duke.edu
Unity				amber@earthling.net
Respect(Rave)			http://www.duke.edu/~akp2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 07:30:48 1998
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From: MacBunny <akp2@acpub.duke.edu>
To: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>
cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: now and then
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i'm so with you man, and i'm not even there

> 
> So does the scene change, or do we? Ever since I started going to raves in
> '92 I heard that they were going downhill, that they weren't as good as
> they were in '89, or '91, or '93, or '94, and so on. People blame the
> promoters, the DJ's, the drugs, the newbies, the venues... It all goes
> around again and again. It's  humorous after awhile, until you're the one
> telling people about the good old days...
> 
> You realize how many people you don't see around anymore, how you don't get
> excited every Saturday night calling a malfunctioning voicemail every five
> minutes trying to find out where the damn map point is. Perhaps worst, you
> start to feel like the scene owes you, not that you owe the scene.
> 
> Then you realize how much you cherish the old friends that you do see, and
> the new faces you meet, and realize you can go anywhere in the world and
> find something similar and you start to think maybe you're not quite so
> jaded after all. =)
> 
> Huh. I must have slept too much last night.
> 
> While looking through the SFR archives the other day trying to figure out
> what my first SF Rave was called (Haze theatre, late May or early June '93
> - any ideas?) I read through a couple months of posts and realized how
> relevant many of the posts seemed. Relevant not just in the sense of rave
> related but in general thoughtfulness. While there seemed to certainly be
> the same sorts of endless threads we experience now, there were also more
> promoters and active ravers taking part in the discourse - in short it
> seemed very much like a bunch of people excited they'd found something
> common to share and eager to communicate about it.
> 
> Of course, this could just be nostalgia talking; as I wasn't on SFR back
> then (still SoCal at that point) I'm curious as to the reflections of those
> who've been on this list straight through from back in the day. (I know JSL
> and Ethan were a couple names I recognized as still being active)
> 
> I'm sure the size difference accounts for much of how the list has
> developed, but I'm also curious about how the list is seen from a new
> user's perspective now as compared to how it was seen to a new user 4 or 5
> years ago.
> 
> I'd also recommend checking out some of the archives - there's a history of
> our scene there that's quite valuable.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confucious said "To know what you know, and to know what you don't know, 
is the characteristic of one who knows."

amber perry-mcquown

Peace				akp2@acpub.duke.edu
Love				plur@radonc.duke.edu
Unity				amber@earthling.net
Respect(Rave)			http://www.duke.edu/~akp2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 07:45:26 1998
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Is leviticus still doing the thursday night thing?  I went there once and
nothing was happening, no familiar faces and such.  I miss kismet.  that was
fun.
Ms. K1dd

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 08:19:28 1998
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try this on for size..............







					 MAD  hoUse/BiPolar



                		  Ethan(F n' F)                         Joe Rice(F n, F,
MAD)                           									

					          
					     Fat Tony(Deep)


                               Ted(SAC)                                
DjQ(Swadeshi)




			      Live Performance by Baktun 13(New York)





            		      Forrest Green(sf)                  Pelican Boy(SAC)   
           



				       spEakeR  (23) (FreeRadio/Rapture)                


 		                    OPtic(Boston/Isolation Zone) 



                   Peachfish(FreeRadio/Rapture)   
               


                             		      Sunflowerfish(S.P.A.Z.)



					        JANUARY 30, 1998



                                                          510.665.6524    
           


						             $5


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 08:53:47 1998
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wah~wah~

if you heard some crazed chick yelling "you biOtch" in Northbeach, nite
before last it's cuz my friend ~Jeanne-Marie~ soon to be on da list,
[hooray] and i have a new weekly, weekly challenge that is of *Ms.
Pacman*, 'member Inky?" how 'bout "Pinky" and "Sue?" want to listen to
early lame @ss electronic sounds, and go down memory lane? then check it
out at the Condor, Columbus/Broadway. heh!
kicked her @ass, sowwie hun ;p
but she kicked mine in pool, ouch, playing slop _rules_!

huggies absorb more plur,
~Elena~

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 09:01:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 03:58:54 -0500
To: off-topik@dewline.com
From: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
Subject: now THAT was a BOOTAY CALL...
Cc: ne-raves@world.std.com, nyc-raves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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...as in, everybody that needs to shake your booty, get on the floor...

goddamn, that was the most fun i've had in ages...  i only stayed for
grooverider and jjflash, because by the time they were done i was exhausted
anyway cuz jeezus, i could NOT stop dancing...  besides, i figure i really
SHOULD get to work at a reasonable hour...  Really...

I'm so responsible.  

But, wow - granted there were a lot of kiddies there - but what the hell,
they were dancing their asses off too...  Lady Miss Kier was even shaking a
leg - as long as she stays on the dance floor and away from the tables,
props to her.  she can get down.

so, my superstoned and that's it ass is going to bed now even though i'm
tempted to put the music back on and keep going...  you know, friday night
i ate like, a bunch o'stuff to try to get into it, tonight (it's scary how
much less and less i can dance to anything 4/4ish), i felt like i was on
the stuff from the good old days and all i did was smoke - holy shit...  

and sorry nancy, but this dance floor beat any trance floor in existence...
 well, maybe not in existence, but damn, it's been a long LONG time since
i've seen THAT MANY PEOPLE (it was like, really crowded to the point of
everyone just banging into each other and saying fuck it) getting THAT INTO
THE MUSIC...  Oh, and my god, I will never be able to listen to jungle
again without thinking "god, I wish we were at Twilo."  That sound system
DESERVES jungle.   For all 2000 or so people crammed into it.  (I'm
terrible at that kind of guessing tho, someone else help).

maybe i just smoked some really good weed but i don't think so (well i
don't think that's the reason, but i DO know the weed was good), cuz i was
about a foot from shapero (friend) the whole night and all i could say to
him was "holy shit this party is going OFF!  damn, this music is so fucking
good!"  sorry, sailor mouth...  but seriously.  I remember a few years ago
when i used to be high as a kite, going "holy shit this party is going
OFF!" but it hasn't been like that in a while.  

Now that I know I've cracked everyone up in amazement (yeah, i came like,
thisclose to saying the word vibe somewhere up there) for REAL.  That place
was packed - if they could figure out how to make everyone make use of the
bar for something besides the one water bottle we refill all night in the
bathroom i bet we could have that more often.

Oh, speaking of booty - man, this chick was up on the speakers in the
corner, and she was like, ALL booty (white thong thing in see through
pants) it was a trip.  It was a really REALLY bootyshakin' night.  I got
home and did a little dance in front of the mirror to see what it was i'd
been doing all night in public and it was so fuckin' booty...  it would
have been embarrassing if it didn't look so good...  ;-)

oh and this guy i met (steve, your roomate but i'm crossposting so...)
walks into twilo, disappears, and then ten minutes later comes up and says
"wow i just smoked one with grooverider"...  i mean, i'm not saying "oh
he's cool cuz he did that" he's just one of those people that seems like he
chances upon neat situations like that...  wish i was.

alright, enough of that...  anywayz, shapero you bitch it was a blast
hangin' with you - i feel like you understood that my vocabulary was
limited to about six words - "this is fucking going off!!!!"...  

so anyway, it looks like there are enough people liking jungle in new york
now that we could have an all jungle night (i mean a big one, at twilo)
within maybe a year or two?  i hope.  

sorry you guys in sfr had to read this i just wanted to tell you how much
of a good time i had.

dori



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 10:13:56 1998
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Looks good...gettin a stack o names.
Malto Gratica,
N

MacBunny wrote:

> nah dude you got it right.  i checked it on spell check.
>
> >
> > www.spinvinyl.com (Is it just me or does the spelling of vinyl look
> > weird? If it's wrong, correct it, and try it, if not I'm just trippin
> > :))
> >
> > That's mine, hope I don't get laughed at too much. :)
> >
> >
> > :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
> >
> >     PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
> >     PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
> >     PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
> >     PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
> >     PP         YY       RR    RR    OO
> >
> > Pyro
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Confucious said "To know what you know, and to know what you don't know,
> is the characteristic of one who knows."
>
> amber perry-mcquown
>
> Peace                           akp2@acpub.duke.edu
> Love                            plur@radonc.duke.edu
> Unity                           amber@earthling.net
> Respect(Rave)                   http://www.duke.edu/~akp2
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 10:40:03 1998
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From: pj fuzzy <pjfuzzy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Please Help....R U joking?I guess you werent
To: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
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I think the real tragedy is we live in a country that
will spend umpteen milliions on the Bud-bowl and
complain about spending any money on any realistic
drug studies- except those that prove the desired
hypothesis that drugs are the evil scourge that we
knew them to be.  As a person who is presently on
Zoloft, I would definitely like to have an honest
discussion about the effects of mixing Zoloft with
other drugs legal or otherwise.

I also think it is a tragedy that we live in a
society where if Bristol Myers can market it then its
got to be safe- well how many perscription drug
abusers do we have out there huh.

Anyway, I'm sorry if this rant isn't more coherent as
I got legally intoxicated at the End up earlier
tonight.

pjfzzy
>
> i think the thing that bothers ME the most about
the whole thing is..
> you've been doing E for how long?? and zoloft for
how long?
> and JUST NOW you are asking about the dangers of it?!
> 
> yanno what i mean?
> know what you're stickin in your head kids, i
really don't want to have
> coworkers with brains for mush coz they didn't know
what they were
> sticking in their mouth. 
> i mean.. educate.. THEN decide what you want to do
to yourself.
> ya dig?
> xo
> lara
> 
> On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 Karma2001@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 98-01-29 03:42:24 EST,
sushi888@mtnweb.com writes:
> > 
> > << Wow, it seems alot fo people have little
attitude problems here, no
> >  wonder why i didn't post things on here very
much. I would klike it to
> >  be known that I have no problems not doing drugs
at parties, and I don't
> >  go to parties and do simply drugs..... and Last,
I didn't say the fact
> >  that I didn't feel my "E" was a problem, I just
wanted to know if it
> >  were related to the fact that i was taking
Zoloft. If i'm going to get
> >  attacked here, wll, that just doesn't sound too
"plur"-fle here. I don't
> >  care, I think it's great to be blunt, I had a
question, and some nice
> >  peopel answered it, I didn't know I was using
this forum to become a
> >  target of some superficial ego attack. This
place is all superficial
> >  anyways..... to those hwo helped me, and to
those who warned me to take
> >  care, thank you and I mean that... to those who
merely saw the fact that
> >  I was taking a drug and decided to cap on me for
it, next time don't
> >  bother, it's a waste of my readin time.
> >  I don't mean to sound like a beeotch either,
just staing my opinion
> >  and boy it was FABULOUS!
> >  *smooch smooch darling* we'll have to drink
champagne to that
> >  NaVySaTaN (eric)
> >  
> >
******************************************************************************
> > ********************
> >    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DAMN I
THINK IM GOING TO
> > CRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > 
> > I just straight got slapped in the face with that
one....OUCH...my face is all
> > red....you have made a good point and I
appreciate that...I admit it was a bit
> > harsh and I apologize for that one....but I feel
I had legitimate reasons for
> > that behavior....the fact that a lot of people on
this list have been tripping
> > out about what gets spoken about over this little
SFRAVE Society because no
> > one wants people looking at their mail in the
future while in the middle of
> > applying for a job or something (did that even
make sense right there?)
> > Ok....so ya figure that after realizing people
were tripping maybe you ought
> > lay low with the bluntness....do you see what I
am saying here....however
> > again, I am sorry but I did reply to your post in
a bad/offended mood....it
> > isn't everyday I get such a mean letter directed
towards me so I hope that you
> > are understanding this and can shake it
off....you are right it was absolutely
> > fabulous
> > 
> >                <3*mushyb!   
> >  
> > 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 11:12:51 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 03:20:22 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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It was a joke. :P
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Karma2001@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-29 22:35:18 EST, goodvibe@geocities.com writes:
> 
> << Welcome to HELL!
>  Get used to it.
>  Love,
>  Paul*E*Wog
>   >>
>  I CANNOT believe you just said that????????? I just dont get all this
> negative flow..... Just call me Smooshy

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 11:18:58 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 03:26:01 -0800
From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: Please Help....R U joking?I guess you werent
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True! Prescription drugs can be abused. You know exactly what's in them,
they are not cut with anything, they are cheap, they may help you in the
long run, I know people who have a little Prozac abuse habbit. We won't
mention any names, just the fact that they popped 7 20mg pills in thier
mouth and were very happy for several weeks.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog
P.S. Vicodin Power

pj fuzzy wrote:
> 
> I think the real tragedy is we live in a country that
> will spend umpteen milliions on the Bud-bowl and
> complain about spending any money on any realistic
> drug studies- except those that prove the desired
> hypothesis that drugs are the evil scourge that we
> knew them to be.  As a person who is presently on
> Zoloft, I would definitely like to have an honest
> discussion about the effects of mixing Zoloft with
> other drugs legal or otherwise.
> 
> I also think it is a tragedy that we live in a
> society where if Bristol Myers can market it then its
> got to be safe- well how many perscription drug
> abusers do we have out there huh.
> 
> Anyway, I'm sorry if this rant isn't more coherent as
> I got legally intoxicated at the End up earlier
> tonight.
> 
> pjfzzy
> >
> > i think the thing that bothers ME the most about
> the whole thing is..
> > you've been doing E for how long?? and zoloft for
> how long?
> > and JUST NOW you are asking about the dangers of it?!
> >
> > yanno what i mean?
> > know what you're stickin in your head kids, i
> really don't want to have
> > coworkers with brains for mush coz they didn't know
> what they were
> > sticking in their mouth.
> > i mean.. educate.. THEN decide what you want to do
> to yourself.
> > ya dig?
> > xo
> > lara
> >
> > On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 Karma2001@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > In a message dated 98-01-29 03:42:24 EST,
> sushi888@mtnweb.com writes:
> > >
> > > << Wow, it seems alot fo people have little
> attitude problems here, no
> > >  wonder why i didn't post things on here very
> much. I would klike it to
> > >  be known that I have no problems not doing drugs
> at parties, and I don't
> > >  go to parties and do simply drugs..... and Last,
> I didn't say the fact
> > >  that I didn't feel my "E" was a problem, I just
> wanted to know if it
> > >  were related to the fact that i was taking
> Zoloft. If i'm going to get
> > >  attacked here, wll, that just doesn't sound too
> "plur"-fle here. I don't
> > >  care, I think it's great to be blunt, I had a
> question, and some nice
> > >  peopel answered it, I didn't know I was using
> this forum to become a
> > >  target of some superficial ego attack. This
> place is all superficial
> > >  anyways..... to those hwo helped me, and to
> those who warned me to take
> > >  care, thank you and I mean that... to those who
> merely saw the fact that
> > >  I was taking a drug and decided to cap on me for
> it, next time don't
> > >  bother, it's a waste of my readin time.
> > >  I don't mean to sound like a beeotch either,
> just staing my opinion
> > >  and boy it was FABULOUS!
> > >  *smooch smooch darling* we'll have to drink
> champagne to that
> > >  NaVySaTaN (eric)
> > >
> > >
> ******************************************************************************
> > > ********************
> > >    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DAMN I
> THINK IM GOING TO
> > > CRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > I just straight got slapped in the face with that
> one....OUCH...my face is all
> > > red....you have made a good point and I
> appreciate that...I admit it was a bit
> > > harsh and I apologize for that one....but I feel
> I had legitimate reasons for
> > > that behavior....the fact that a lot of people on
> this list have been tripping
> > > out about what gets spoken about over this little
> SFRAVE Society because no
> > > one wants people looking at their mail in the
> future while in the middle of
> > > applying for a job or something (did that even
> make sense right there?)
> > > Ok....so ya figure that after realizing people
> were tripping maybe you ought
> > > lay low with the bluntness....do you see what I
> am saying here....however
> > > again, I am sorry but I did reply to your post in
> a bad/offended mood....it
> > > isn't everyday I get such a mean letter directed
> towards me so I hope that you
> > > are understanding this and can shake it
> off....you are right it was absolutely
> > > fabulous
> > >
> > >                <3*mushyb!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 13:14:39 1998
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In a message dated 1/29/98 9:03:01 PM, you wrote:

<<Wouldn't you rather someone
post thier concerns and questions regarding drugs than to wind up dead.
Or with serotonin syndrome? >>

Is this like mad cow disease?

:D  :D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 16:51:31 1998
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From: Ruth Jennison <ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Tranceforce
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Does anyone have the skinny on this party? Big, small? How are the DJS? Im
new to the area and dont quite recognize quality names yet...
Thanks so much...


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 16:59:51 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: now THAT was a BOOTAY CALL...
To: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>, off-topik@dewline.com
Cc: ne-raves@world.std.com, nyc-raves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Well Dori,

You obviously have not been to a SF trance Party
those floors can be so rocking. Take for example the
last Light seed party that just passed The floors
were packed with groovers. Espicially the room that
Anon was spinning in. She is one of the best Psy DJ's
I have seen in a long time nice range and boy can she
make you shake your bootay..

Macadio (Mack-Audio) 


===
There's a strong relationship between music and art.
It's not so much
music or an art exactly, it's lifestyle. 
                                            -Jeff Mills








---Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com> wrote:
>
> ...as in, everybody that needs to shake your booty,
get on the floor...
> 
> goddamn, that was the most fun i've had in ages... 
i only stayed for
> grooverider and jjflash, because by the time they
were done i was exhausted
> anyway cuz jeezus, i could NOT stop dancing... 
besides, i figure i really
> SHOULD get to work at a reasonable hour...  Really...
> 
> I'm so responsible.  
> 
> But, wow - granted there were a lot of kiddies
there - but what the hell,
> they were dancing their asses off too...  Lady Miss
Kier was even shaking a
> leg - as long as she stays on the dance floor and
away from the tables,
> props to her.  she can get down.
> 
> so, my superstoned and that's it ass is going to
bed now even though i'm
> tempted to put the music back on and keep going... 
you know, friday night
> i ate like, a bunch o'stuff to try to get into it,
tonight (it's scary how
> much less and less i can dance to anything 4/4ish),
i felt like i was on
> the stuff from the good old days and all i did was
smoke - holy shit...  
> 
> and sorry nancy, but this dance floor beat any
trance floor in existence...
>  well, maybe not in existence, but damn, it's been
a long LONG time since
> i've seen THAT MANY PEOPLE (it was like, really
crowded to the point of
> everyone just banging into each other and saying
fuck it) getting THAT INTO
> THE MUSIC...  Oh, and my god, I will never be able
to listen to jungle
> again without thinking "god, I wish we were at
Twilo."  That sound system
> DESERVES jungle.   For all 2000 or so people
crammed into it.  (I'm
> terrible at that kind of guessing tho, someone else
help).
> 
> maybe i just smoked some really good weed but i
don't think so (well i
> don't think that's the reason, but i DO know the
weed was good), cuz i was
> about a foot from shapero (friend) the whole night
and all i could say to
> him was "holy shit this party is going OFF!  damn,
this music is so fucking
> good!"  sorry, sailor mouth...  but seriously.  I
remember a few years ago
> when i used to be high as a kite, going "holy shit
this party is going
> OFF!" but it hasn't been like that in a while.  
> 
> Now that I know I've cracked everyone up in
amazement (yeah, i came like,
> thisclose to saying the word vibe somewhere up
there) for REAL.  That place
> was packed - if they could figure out how to make
everyone make use of the
> bar for something besides the one water bottle we
refill all night in the
> bathroom i bet we could have that more often.
> 
> Oh, speaking of booty - man, this chick was up on
the speakers in the
> corner, and she was like, ALL booty (white thong
thing in see through
> pants) it was a trip.  It was a really REALLY
bootyshakin' night.  I got
> home and did a little dance in front of the mirror
to see what it was i'd
> been doing all night in public and it was so
fuckin' booty...  it would
> have been embarrassing if it didn't look so good...
 ;-)
> 
> oh and this guy i met (steve, your roomate but i'm
crossposting so...)
> walks into twilo, disappears, and then ten minutes
later comes up and says
> "wow i just smoked one with grooverider"...  i
mean, i'm not saying "oh
> he's cool cuz he did that" he's just one of those
people that seems like he
> chances upon neat situations like that...  wish i
was.
> 
> alright, enough of that...  anywayz, shapero you
bitch it was a blast
> hangin' with you - i feel like you understood that
my vocabulary was
> limited to about six words - "this is fucking going
off!!!!"...  
> 
> so anyway, it looks like there are enough people
liking jungle in new york
> now that we could have an all jungle night (i mean
a big one, at twilo)
> within maybe a year or two?  i hope.  
> 
> sorry you guys in sfr had to read this i just
wanted to tell you how much
> of a good time i had.
> 
> dori
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 17:23:39 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: now and then
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I agree with Joe-

I think it is people that change not really the scene
I have been in the scene since around 91 or 92 not
sure? I just remember going to a party at one step
beyond and Jimmy and wallys place. Maybe someone can
help me out with the time line here? At any rate I
have seen a lot of people come and go the scene has
had it's ups and downs but it is always here. I think
it fades because a.) People get to hooked on drugs
b.) Get "to old" for the scene and become very jaded
c.) loose interest cause they were never really into
it just following the crowd.

Then there are those that still remain here for the
love and diversity that the scene has to offer. I am
very happy with the scene right now cause there are
more poeople getting involved with it. A lot more
artistic people particapating. I have been touched by
so many people in various different ways. We keep
feeding off the scene and for every one person that
leaves there is a newbie to take there place we keep
re-inventing it to me. That is why it can't die. Not
like breaking or any other "Trend" that you reach a
certain level and there is no higher to go. As long
as people can still write music and people are
willing to dance and have a good time I think it will
last for a very long time it is more of a lifestyle
and not a trend. Blah, Blah Blah.. I better stop
writing cause now I am rambling and I have not had my
coffe yet :P~~

Peace,
Macadio 


===
There's a strong relationship between music and art.
It's not so much
music or an art exactly, it's lifestyle. 
                                            -Jeff Mills








---Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com> wrote:
>
> So does the scene change, or do we? Ever since I
started going to raves in
> '92 I heard that they were going downhill, that
they weren't as good as
> they were in '89, or '91, or '93, or '94, and so
on. People blame the
> promoters, the DJ's, the drugs, the newbies, the
venues... It all goes
> around again and again. It's  humorous after
awhile, until you're the one
> telling people about the good old days...
> 
> You realize how many people you don't see around
anymore, how you don't get
> excited every Saturday night calling a
malfunctioning voicemail every five
> minutes trying to find out where the damn map point
is. Perhaps worst, you
> start to feel like the scene owes you, not that you
owe the scene.
> 
> Then you realize how much you cherish the old
friends that you do see, and
> the new faces you meet, and realize you can go
anywhere in the world and
> find something similar and you start to think maybe
you're not quite so
> jaded after all. =)
> 
> Huh. I must have slept too much last night.
> 
> While looking through the SFR archives the other
day trying to figure out
> what my first SF Rave was called (Haze theatre,
late May or early June '93
> - any ideas?) I read through a couple months of
posts and realized how
> relevant many of the posts seemed. Relevant not
just in the sense of rave
> related but in general thoughtfulness. While there
seemed to certainly be
> the same sorts of endless threads we experience
now, there were also more
> promoters and active ravers taking part in the
discourse - in short it
> seemed very much like a bunch of people excited
they'd found something
> common to share and eager to communicate about it.
> 
> Of course, this could just be nostalgia talking; as
I wasn't on SFR back
> then (still SoCal at that point) I'm curious as to
the reflections of those
> who've been on this list straight through from back
in the day. (I know JSL
> and Ethan were a couple names I recognized as still
being active)
> 
> I'm sure the size difference accounts for much of
how the list has
> developed, but I'm also curious about how the list
is seen from a new
> user's perspective now as compared to how it was
seen to a new user 4 or 5
> years ago.
> 
> I'd also recommend checking out some of the
archives - there's a history of
> our scene there that's quite valuable.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 17:44:48 1998
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Mike Wertheim <mikew@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Freaky Chakra (and Mac digital audio system for sale)
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Recently someone on this list asked about the status of the new Freaky
Chakra album.

I ran into Daum (Freaky Chakra) last night, and he said that:

- The new album is completely finished.
- It should be in stores in April.
- XLR8R Magazine is having a promotion in which the first 20 people to
subscribe will get a free copy of the CD.  (I don't have any real solid
info on this, though.)
- He wants to sell his Digidesign Session 8 card (an 8-track digital audio
system for the Mac).  If you want to buy it, let me know and I'll put you
in touch with him.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 17:45:00 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:49:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Layne Loomis <lucke@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: NRR:  mind trick
To: bmeier@pacbell.net, Dsfunshnl1 <Dsfunshnl1@aol.com>
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UUUHHHH I got like 11 am like broken or somethin'

Butthead






---"Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> Weeeeoooouuuu! Worked for me! So, why?
> 
> b.
> 
> Dsfunshnl1 wrote:
> 
> > Hey everyone... a friend sent me this... check it
out!
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > <<
> > >  Follow the force......let it flow within
you......and feel the power of
> > this
> > >  fully operational mind trick!
> > >
> > >  Be sure to follow directions. This is the
coolest.
> > >
> > >  This little jedi mind trick is kinda freaky,
till you think about it a
> > little
> > >  while.  Then it's even more weird.
> > >
> > >  Just follow the instructions below:
> > >
> > >  DON'T scroll down too fast-do it slowly, and
follow the instructions below
> > >  exactly, and do the math in your head as fast
as you can. It worked on us.
> > >
> > >  FOLLOW these instructions one at a time and as
QUICKLY as you can!
> > >
> > >  What is:
> > >
> > >  2+2?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  4+4?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  8+8?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  16+16?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Quick! Pick a number between 12 and 5.  Got it?
> > >
> > >
> > >  Now scroll down...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  The number you picked was 7 right?
> > >  Isn't that weird???
> > >
> > >
> > >  THE END!
> > >  Did it work for you?
> > >
> >      ..... twilight zone mix fading in .....
> >
> > Peace
> > ~Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 17:53:24 1998
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	Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:56:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
Message-Id: <199801301756.JAA29810@u2.netgate.net>
Subject: Re: Please Help
To: goodvibe@geocities.com (Paul Hayden)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:56:21 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Reply-To: haze@netgate.net
In-Reply-To: <34D16BD6.911836F6@geocities.com> from "Paul Hayden" at Jan 29, 98 09:57:42 pm
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*looks at the contents of the message below hers and thinks back to the
skein of messages she's recently glanced at and just deleted because of
their content*

Er...right.

Paul Hayden wrote:
> 
> He sure did. He posted to everyone that we should keep it down.
> And we have been.
> Love,
> Paul*E*Wog
> 
> Haze wrote:
> > 
> > Hmm, I could be wrong, but didn't Brian post a few days ago saying that
> > there's been too many posts about drugs on here lately and recommend that
> > they be taken to the newsgroups or drug specific listservs?
> > 
> > Paul Hayden wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't think Zolofot is an illegal drug. Wouldn't you rather someone
> > > post thier concerns and questions regarding drugs than to wind up dead.
> > > Or with serotonin syndrome? If you think there is no connection between
> > > mind altering substances and raves then you need to read about the
> > > history of raves and about othere cultures similar to raves. Where is
> > > tie between drugs and raves? It's in the religion depp in the rave. Part
> > > of the religion invloves drugs that alter your conciousness. Just
> > > because this psychedeliphobic society doesn't like the fact that we take
> > > drugs doesn't mean we should stop. It is not against the law to talk
> > > about drugs. It is not against the law to question the law. It is not
> > > against the law to want to do drugs safley. Stop stressing. If it really
> > > becomes a problem Brain will tell me. It's his damn list he can boot me
> > > off if he wants to. If he feel that my posts threaten this list then he
> > > will tell me and i will comply, until that happens I will continue to
> > > excersice my first ammendament.
> > > Love,
> > > Paul*E*Wog
> > >
> > > AndyW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Paul,
> > > >
> > > > The list owner has mentioned this issue.  He has produced precedent that
> > > > this CAN have very negative effects on all those involved.  Email, as it
> > > > is passworded and authenticated IS admissible in court, and several cases
> > > > have already established this.  RESPECT the wishes of those who would like
> > > > this list to be a little less "hot" a topic.  It should be about raving,
> > > > not about wild speculation of what happens when you take this and that
> > > > together.  If it's not about the drugs, then perhaps we could go a while
> > > > without discussing them, eh?
> > > >
> > > > >From my personal view, I'd like to see everybody quit drugs from time to
> > > > time, and you're showing warning signs (defensiveness, frustration with
> > > > current drug use patterns and side effects, curiousity about very hard
> > > > drugs/cocktailing, and persistent evidence of drug effects in the absence
> > > > of drugs) of someone who just might be due for a little break.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not telling you to do anything, cause I can't, but with all due
> > > > respect, please work with us, not against us.  We're the very community
> > > > whose interests you're claiming to be looking out for.  This scene, as it
> > > > exists is more of a legal house of cards than you might think, and
> > > > tempting the powers that be does nothing for anybody here.
> > > >
> > > > Peace,
> > > > AndyW
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Paul Hayden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I love you too. Gimme a big kiss big boy.
> > > > > Love,
> > > > > Paul*E*Wog
> > > > >
> > > > > Ran D. Dreams wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  You are being argumentative and stupid like a little boy who will not
> > > > > > grow up. Remember that there is a big difference between childish and
> > > > > > childlike.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  If nothing else try to imagine the impact you are creating on others
> > > > > > with your posts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Email is not a testamony of drug use. I can say i have done e, acid,
> > > > > > >shrooms, special k, heroin, crack, tylenol, suppositories, prozac,
> > > > > > >zoloft, robotussin, dramamine, dmt, peyote, crystal meth, and that i
> > > > > > >also wear women's clothes to raves. I am a nazi and i am planning to
> > > > > > >have an affair with president clinton. I also was molested my micheal
> > > > > > >jackson as a child. I have a penis and a vagina and I aslo like to have
> > > > > > >sex with animals...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >...but then again it may all be a lie. Also, someone else may hav found
> > > > > > >hacked into my email account and sent an email saying that they were
> > > > > > me.
> > > > > > >There is no signature at the bottom of this. This will not hold up in
> > > > > > >court.
> > > > > > >Love,
> > > > > > >Paul*E*ACID*SHROOMS*CRACK*SMACK**AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE*Wog
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ______________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > > > >
> > >
> > 
> >                                    Haze
> >  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >  +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
> >  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >  +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
> >  +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
> >  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 



                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 18:02:36 1998
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From: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
Subject: **Warmth One year Party**
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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Just got off the phone with Spencer He is on his way
up today so we will be seeing our Blond Fro friend
soon. YAY!!! We were talking about a Warmth one year
that will be coming up. It is still in the planning
stages so details are sketchy at this time but I will
keep you all posted as they unfold. Keep your ear to
the ground and your eyes to the sky!!

Peace,
Macadio

===
There's a strong relationship between music and art.
It's not so much
music or an art exactly, it's lifestyle. 
                                            -Jeff Mills










From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 18:24:18 1998
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From: Adam Weiss <aweiss@xingtech.com>
To: "'Natasha426@aol.com'" <Natasha426@aol.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Please Help
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:27:57 -0800
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> In a message dated 1/29/98 9:03:01 PM, you wrote:
<<
> <<Wouldn't you rather someone
> post thier concerns and questions regarding drugs than to wind up
> dead.
> Or with serotonin syndrome? >>
> 
> Is this like mad cow disease?
> 
> :D  :D
>>

i think it's more like bovine bipolar disorder...

"MOO!  I'm a happy cow..  Eat grass... Yum Yum"
"moo..  I'm a sad cow... Ram the electric fence...  mooo. bZZZT!  mooo.
bZZZT! mooo. bZZZT!"
"MOO! I'm a happy cow again.  Eat more grass... mmmmmm grass.."
"moo.. I'm a sad cow, i can't handle the stress anymore...  Ram the
fence somemore... mooo.  bZZT!"
..

or bovine obsessive compulsive disorder...

"mooooo..  look at all that grass..  i must eat the grass.  I MUST EAT
ALL OF THE GRASS!!  EAT MORE GRASS!! GRASS GRASS GRASS!!  THE GRASS IS
MINE!!! MUST EAT GRASS!!  ME VS. THE GRASS!!!"

or bovine antisocial psychopathic disorder...

"mooo..  i'm gonna eat lots of grass so that i can lay more land mines
for the farmer...  mooohahahahahahaha!"

or... finally... bovine posting bizarre non-rave-related hypothetical
cow monologue to a rave list disorder...

"moooo? wait a minute...

have a good day everyone!

--adam





From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 18:25:10 1998
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From: jimg/skoop <skoop@slackers.net>
To: "Niels P. Mayer" <mayer@netcom.com>
cc: muggles@pacbell.net, San FranDisco Ravers List <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: hi...i'm new to SF raves!! 
In-Reply-To: <199801300339.TAA02358@netcom7.netcom.com>
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Niels P. Mayer wrote:

> > well, if anyone else here on the list is into ambient
> > and or dub stuff let's chat sometime!! i'd love some messages about that
> > type of music!! bye for now!!  =) bonny aka shakti
> 
> I'm into music that isn't necessarily dance music. I tend to associate
> "ambient" music with stuff that puts you to sleep, so I rarely enjoy
> ambient. However, I like music other than "dance music"... especially
> music that defies genres.


I dig ambient and IDM.  

I buy anything I see on FAX and Warp.

-jimg

--skoop@slackers.net
--http://www.slackers.net/~skoop


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 18:25:37 1998
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From: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>
To: 'Ruth Jennison' <ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Tranceforce
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:29:20 -0800
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Ummmm

DUTCH?

PSY-Trance anyone!

See you THERE

Quality IMHO doesn't even BEGIN to address him...

Heh

gEoff ;)

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Ruth Jennison [SMTP:ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu]
	Sent:	Friday, January 30, 1998 8:45 AM
	To:	sfraves@hyperreal.org
	Subject:	Tranceforce

	Does anyone have the skinny on this party? Big, small? How are
the DJS? Im
	new to the area and dont quite recognize quality names yet...
	Thanks so much...

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 18:32:13 1998
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From: Haze <haze@netgate.net>
Message-Id: <199801301835.KAA00789@u2.netgate.net>
Subject: Weekend plans!
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:35:11 -0800 (PST)
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Hey all!

Whatcha all doing this weekend?  You southbay peeps all going to
TranceForce? Or maybe one of the other things on Saturday or some other
day?  Maybe we could all get together again before hand and go as a group,
like a caravan, or convoy or something.  Last week was cool. :) 

Doh! I just realized I have to rush to the store and get my beads and
crank out some more bracelets! :) (Gotta have something for the sfravers I
haven't met yet!)

For you city and Oakland/Berkeley/whereeverelsers what are you all doing
this weekend?  *Hi M&M! :)*

                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 18:37:30 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: "Easy Being" <meezy@hotmail.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Mr nStuff the Wise Man (was RE: O YA
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:36:57 -0800
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I can't figure why I am in the subject header of this e-mail...

I couldn't bare to read the whole e-mail.. I am busy at work for one.. Could
someone please explain what this is all about? I just don't understand.. Who
is Easy Being?


Ok..
Bye.
=]:... ..
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Easy Being <meezy@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 5:57 PM
Subject: Fwd: Mr nStuff the Wise Man (was RE: O YA


>
>
>>Received: from 192.86.155.92 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>> Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:54:22 PST
>>X-Originating-IP: [192.86.155.92]
>>From: "Easy Being" <meezy@hotmail.com>
>>To: meezy@hotmail.com
>>Subject: Fwd: Mr nStuff the Wise Man (was RE: O YA
>>Content-Type: text/plain
>>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:54:22 PST
>>
>>>>>If God is all powerfull, he knows all the decesions we will make,
>>>>>(IMO, this is correct)  or has
>>>>>made them for us.(IMO, this is incorrect)  If this is so, why are we
>>>>>'tested' here on earth?
>>
>>WHEN I SAY 'YOU' IN THIS POST, I DON'T MEAN YOU PERSONALY.  I MEAN
>>EVERYONE IN GENERAL.
>>
>>God has given us the 'Choice' not a "Test" (you know the whole Sh'peal
>>about how life is full of choices).  He does know what we are going to
>>decide, but he let's us decide.  We have to live our lives and find out
>>ourselves what it was that we decided on Earth, whether to believe in
>>him and be with him Forever or Not.  It's Our decision.  He not just
>>going to say "Well I'm not gonna waste any time.  I already know that
>>he/she's not going to Believe in me so I'm gonna send him to Hell now
>>before he lives his life." because then we would be like..."Why am I in
>>Hell?  I didn't decide to come here?"  Well God let's everyone live
>>their life and gives everyone a 'Choice' so that everyone will "Know"
>>what they "Decided".  He's not gonna make us like Robots and
>>Program/Force everyone to Love him and Believe in him.
>>        What if you had a Child and you Programed/Forced them to say "I
>>Love
>>You" to you.  What kind of Genuine Love would that be?  It wouldn't be
>>Genuine.  It wouldn't come from their Heart.  They just said it because
>>you forced them to.  God wants Genuine Love, not Forced Love, and we
>>want to give Genuine Love, not forced Love, which is why we have a
>>Choice.
>>        What if you had a Child that was taken away from you when she
>>was
>>little.  Now, you're child is older and you want her to come back and
>>live with you, but your child doesn't even remember you or know that
>you
>>are her parent.  You wanted to communicate this to your child so you
>had
>>a friend write a letter for you and deliver it to your Child.  In the
>>letter, it would say something like...
>>        Dear Child,
>>                Your Father/Mother asked me to write you a letter.
>When
>>you were a
>>Child, a very persuasive man convinced you to follow him and you did.
>>That is the guy that you think is your father now.  He actually isn't.
>>He convinced you to go with him and took you for his. Your Real Father,
>>who is my Friend, Loves you very much and wants you to come live with
>>him forever. All you have to do is follow these directions to get here.
>>(directions enclosed).  Please call him so you can talk.
>>555-LOVE
>>
>>Now lets say she took the letter and said "Wow, this is a nice letter,
>>but I don't believe this is True", then she set the letter aside and
>>went on her business.  You wouldn't Love her any "Less" because she
>>didn't believe you, but how can she live with you if she decided she
>>doesn't want to live with you or much less if she doesn't even Believe
>>you!  You know where she is and can take her back, but if she doesn't
>>want to come with you, that wouldn't be right just to go get her and
>>"Drag" her.
>>
>>You see..
>>
>>        You wrote her a letter (God wrote us the Bible) through a
>friend
>>of
>>yours (through the people in the Bible) and told her that a long time
>>ago a persuasive man convinced her to go with him. (and told us that
>the
>>Devil convinced us "Adam & Eve" to not listen to God and go with the
>>Devil)  It's up to us whether we want to go with him or go with "The
>>Other Guy".  It wouldn't be right for God to just "Drag" us with him if
>>we don't want to.  And just like your Child isn't gonna go with you if
>>she doesn't believe you exist, how can we go with him if we don't
>>believe he exists?
>>
>>        Nobody should be forced to go anywhere.  We should go where we
>>want to
>>go and choose to go.  But we should at least be notified of what
>>happened in the past and of the situation that we're in. (whether we
>>like it or not)  That is what the Bible is.  It lets us know what
>>happened in our heritage and in what situation we're in.  It's up to
>>everyone to believe it or not.  I won't be mad at anybody or hate
>>anybody for not believing it, I will just feel bad because it's their
>>SouL that we're talking about.  I feel bad if people are called
>>Blashphemous or any other names for that matter for not believing.
>>That's not gonna accomplish anything except for negativity, hard
>>feelings and Bitterness.  Love is the Answer...
>>
>>
>>>>>and how
>>>>>can we be held responsible for our actions, such as murdering some
>>one, >>raping etc, when it was "God's decision that we do these
>>>>>actions"?
>>
>>(It's OUR decision to do these actions)
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 18:40:47 1998
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From: Rick <rickf@AirLink.com>
To: "SFRaves \(E-mail\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Weekend plans!
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:41:29 -0800
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I was thinking about going to Tranceforce.  I would love to meet up before. 
Hey, Bbong!  Where's NOFX playing this weekend?  I'd like to go see them
again!  Other than that, I plan to stay home all day and play Final Fantasy 
Tactics.  I forgot to eat yesterday.  I was too involved in that game.  :)

Well anyway, if ouy guys can pull me away from my game, i'd be happy!
Your Jedi Bitch,
Jedi666Boy

Rick Fish
AirLink Communications, Inc.
www.airlink.com
rickf@airlink.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 19:00:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:59:49 -0800 (PST)
From: *byroni* <byroni@ccnet.com>
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To: ~e~l~e~n~a~ <epetzar@earthlink.net>
cc: "\(\(plurry pEEps\)\)" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>, astral@bass-station.com
Subject: Re: *soul thought*
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Elena,

That is BEAUTIFUL. I'm printing this and posting on my "Fridge".. :) I
think you've opened yourself up and allowed us to see just a chip of the
iceburg.. and what I see/feel from your words is pure BEAUTY and
harmonics.... thanks for sharing this with us.... nice nice nice. Perfect
way to start the weekend.

Byroni...... 


On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, ~e~l~e~n~a~ wrote:

> i was inspired to write the following poem while listening to
> the track "Soul Thought" from
> *Astral Matrix*'s CD _Secret Broadcast_
> 
> ...craddled by the bass, a modern lullaby
> writhing i break my shell, pierce through,
> step out of my skin, my spiritual being exposed...
> transformation...
> my entity pulsating in synch, craving every beat...
> soaring, there is no horizon line, no barriers
> transcendence
> an endless connection creates a magnificant
> constellation of other souls, all vibrating
> with a unifying pulse...
> the windows of my soul are wide open,
> my mind even more expanse
> soul thought.
> ~e~l~e~n~a~
> 


another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey... ..  . 

(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
emails... byroni@ccnet.com
websurfin... http://www.ccnet.com/~byroni
plane of existence... spiritual deep house
name of my cat... UNIX! ;)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 19:18:26 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: "Easy Being" <meezy@hotmail.com>
Cc: <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Mr nStuff the Wise Man
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:15:30 -0800
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What the hell are you talking about?
Why is my name in the subject header of your e-mail..?

To me your a lier.. Why you ask? Because you made it out to look like you
were forwarding a message that I wrote... Yet I did not write it. I don't
beleive in any "ONE" god.. To me It is more than you and your bible friends
can imagine... You will never understand.. You sit in the dark and pretend
to love someone for what? You don't know, you can't come up with a rational
answer can you... So forget it..

I think this person should be booted of someone list for forgery.

Damnit!
=]:...
You think this is weird... You should see all the e-mails I get that don't
hit the list.

I don't know.. I STILL skipped the middle of this message.. But I am not
into the whole bible theory anyways... Even though, when I was babtized(sp)
at the age of 3....I did infact feel something, and I was completely not
affriad to be submerged underwater by a stranger.. Weird.

My love goes further than people think.
    Anyways.. What is this all about?
       Jeff


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 19:27:36 1998
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From: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>
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To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Mr nStuff the Wise Man
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> To me your a lier.. Why you ask? Because you made it out to look like you
> were forwarding a message that I wrote... Yet I did not write it. I don't
> beleive in any "ONE" god.. To me It is more than you and your bible friends
> can imagine... You will never understand.. You sit in the dark and pretend
> to love someone for what? You don't know, you can't come up with a rational
> answer can you... So forget it..
> 
> I think this person should be booted of someone list for forgery.

i think this person should be booted of someone list for religious bigotry
[sic].

maybe i'm overly sensitive, but some members of sfraves have a tendency
to get on a real high horse when it comes to religion.  
'i don't believe in ONE god, that's soo passee'
'i have a spiritual side, you just a religious'

these are all comments that have been expressed toward me over the past 3
years on sfraves.

if you are so open-minded, please demonstrate as opposed to spreading
anti-religious attitudes.  this is a general message, NOT directed at the
people who started this thread...

 matt


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 19:37:31 1998
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Subject: Harmony on March 7th! (bsp)
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duh, ok I am stupid ; )

I forgot the date on my last post... (whorf)

So the next Harmony Party... " innercense " is on Saturday March the 7th '98

Peace and love,

Greg= )

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 19:55:13 1998
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Hi again...

I am listening to Kevin Saunderson's Sweater Magazine 2 hour set.... and I
am hoping that someone can help me identify a song on here.... :)

It has the lyrics "It's getting closer" and has a women moaning... very
british sounding... kinda organy.... I love it... I need it... I want
it... I DESIRE IT. ;)

Let me know <<privately>> if you know the id of this here masterpiece of
sonic proportions... 

another deep space transmission from... ..  .
or...
another deep transmission from spacey... ..  . 

(byroni)
TheSPACEcowboy

"Live each day as it was meant to be lived"
			-me
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
emails... byroni@ccnet.com
websurfin... http://www.ccnet.com/~byroni
plane of existence... spiritual deep house
name of my cat... UNIX! ;)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 19:58:58 1998
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From: Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com>
Subject: Re: OT:) Re: now THAT was a BOOTAY CALL...
Cc: ne-raves@world.std.com, nyc-raves@hyperreal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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ack...  like i said it's getting harder and harder for me to take the
4/4...  besides, where the hell is the booty in TRANCE?  i'm sort of
reality-based these days anyway...

at any rate, i got to work this morning and my coworker asked me if i had
rockin' sex last night cuz i'm like, GLOWING...

yeah, actually it was one on one solo sex of the dj sort...

damn.

At 8:57 AM -0800 1/30/98, macadio wrote:
>Well Dori,
>
>You obviously have not been to a SF trance Party
>those floors can be so rocking. Take for example the
>last Light seed party that just passed The floors
>were packed with groovers. Espicially the room that
>Anon was spinning in. She is one of the best Psy DJ's
>I have seen in a long time nice range and boy can she
>make you shake your bootay..
>
>Macadio (Mack-Audio)
>
>
>===
>There's a strong relationship between music and art.
>It's not so much
>music or an art exactly, it's lifestyle.
>                                            -Jeff Mills
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---Dori <luvnlyfe@freshmilk.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...as in, everybody that needs to shake your booty,
>get on the floor...
>>
>> goddamn, that was the most fun i've had in ages...
>i only stayed for
>> grooverider and jjflash, because by the time they
>were done i was exhausted
>> anyway cuz jeezus, i could NOT stop dancing...
>besides, i figure i really
>> SHOULD get to work at a reasonable hour...  Really...
>>
>> I'm so responsible.
>>
>> But, wow - granted there were a lot of kiddies
>there - but what the hell,
>> they were dancing their asses off too...  Lady Miss
>Kier was even shaking a
>> leg - as long as she stays on the dance floor and
>away from the tables,
>> props to her.  she can get down.
>>
>> so, my superstoned and that's it ass is going to
>bed now even though i'm
>> tempted to put the music back on and keep going...
>you know, friday night
>> i ate like, a bunch o'stuff to try to get into it,
>tonight (it's scary how
>> much less and less i can dance to anything 4/4ish),
>i felt like i was on
>> the stuff from the good old days and all i did was
>smoke - holy shit...
>>
>> and sorry nancy, but this dance floor beat any
>trance floor in existence...
>>  well, maybe not in existence, but damn, it's been
>a long LONG time since
>> i've seen THAT MANY PEOPLE (it was like, really
>crowded to the point of
>> everyone just banging into each other and saying
>fuck it) getting THAT INTO
>> THE MUSIC...  Oh, and my god, I will never be able
>to listen to jungle
>> again without thinking "god, I wish we were at
>Twilo."  That sound system
>> DESERVES jungle.   For all 2000 or so people
>crammed into it.  (I'm
>> terrible at that kind of guessing tho, someone else
>help).
>>
>> maybe i just smoked some really good weed but i
>don't think so (well i
>> don't think that's the reason, but i DO know the
>weed was good), cuz i was
>> about a foot from shapero (friend) the whole night
>and all i could say to
>> him was "holy shit this party is going OFF!  damn,
>this music is so fucking
>> good!"  sorry, sailor mouth...  but seriously.  I
>remember a few years ago
>> when i used to be high as a kite, going "holy shit
>this party is going
>> OFF!" but it hasn't been like that in a while.
>>
>> Now that I know I've cracked everyone up in
>amazement (yeah, i came like,
>> thisclose to saying the word vibe somewhere up
>there) for REAL.  That place
>> was packed - if they could figure out how to make
>everyone make use of the
>> bar for something besides the one water bottle we
>refill all night in the
>> bathroom i bet we could have that more often.
>>
>> Oh, speaking of booty - man, this chick was up on
>the speakers in the
>> corner, and she was like, ALL booty (white thong
>thing in see through
>> pants) it was a trip.  It was a really REALLY
>bootyshakin' night.  I got
>> home and did a little dance in front of the mirror
>to see what it was i'd
>> been doing all night in public and it was so
>fuckin' booty...  it would
>> have been embarrassing if it didn't look so good...
> ;-)
>>
>> oh and this guy i met (steve, your roomate but i'm
>crossposting so...)
>> walks into twilo, disappears, and then ten minutes
>later comes up and says
>> "wow i just smoked one with grooverider"...  i
>mean, i'm not saying "oh
>> he's cool cuz he did that" he's just one of those
>people that seems like he
>> chances upon neat situations like that...  wish i
>was.
>>
>> alright, enough of that...  anywayz, shapero you
>bitch it was a blast
>> hangin' with you - i feel like you understood that
>my vocabulary was
>> limited to about six words - "this is fucking going
>off!!!!"...
>>
>> so anyway, it looks like there are enough people
>liking jungle in new york
>> now that we could have an all jungle night (i mean
>a big one, at twilo)
>> within maybe a year or two?  i hope.
>>
>> sorry you guys in sfr had to read this i just
>wanted to tell you how much
>> of a good time i had.
>>
>> dori
>>
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you wish to make a contract with hell...you must first decide whom
you want to call.  It is not necessary to disturb Satan in person, when
an inferior hellish prince can fulfill your wishes."

		--from The History of Magic

do-reeeeee
http://dori.space
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/2entendres

-------------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 20:10:44 1998
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From: fish1111@pacbell.net
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In regards to the question about the scene changing here
are my current thoughts which should be read as a work in 
progress and subject to change.

Many years ago a seed was planted that grew into a tree
that we now call raving. Now that tree has branched out
and each branch is different but still shares the same roots.

It seems to me that the word raving has no real meaning anymore
because it is so diverse and means something different
to each of us. People are into raving for a wide
variety of reasons and each branch is developing into its own
little way. Some branches are thriving and some are decaying.
Those that are thriving are now bearing fruit. Many different
types of people are seeing this delicious fruit and coming to enjoy.
We have vultures that are sweeping down to feast and we have 
butterflys that are coming to take the seeds and create something new.

How long the original tree will survive, i dont know but i do 
know that is has produced some really incredible fruit that 
many of us have had the privledge of tasting and sharing
with our friends and butterflies. Some of us will continue
to care for that original tree and try to keep away
the vultures and decay and others will take the seeds and the many
things we have learned and create new trees that have the potential
to create really beautiful things in our world. I think the original
tree will be here for a long time for those that wish to come
and enjoy its fruit or just rest in it shade and perhaps discover
someting valuable while they are here.
I think we will start to see many new trees soon that each
have something new to offer like new philosophies, new forms
of art, spirituality, new communities, new dances, new music,
new social structures and programs, etc....etc. Even tho each
new tree will be different we will all share those common roots.
Perhaps in ten years we will have a entire forest of unique
trees...
The roots will still be underground and the forest will be the 
massive gathering of the 21st century where all the individual tribes
come together to share and learn from each other and celebrate
our common roots and that original tree of life.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 20:20:57 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:06:26 -0800
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Reply-to: "Bbong" <Bbong@goplay.com>
From: "Bbong" <Bbong@goplay.com>
To: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>,
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DUTCH rules!!! And it's at a new location? That could be good or bad. I kind of dig big heart city

Billabong

Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com> wrote on Friday January 30, 1998 at 10:26am:
>Ummmm
>
>DUTCH?
>
>PSY-Trance anyone!
>
>See you THERE
>
>Quality IMHO doesn't even BEGIN to address him...
>
>Heh
>
>gEoff ;)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:Ruth Jennison [SMTP:ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu]
>Sent:Friday, January 30, 1998 8:45 AM
>To:sfraves@hyperreal.org
>Subject:Tranceforce
>
>Does anyone have the skinny on this party? Big, small? How are
>the DJS? Im
>new to the area and dont quite recognize quality names yet...
>Thanks so much...

------------------------------------------------------
| How long do you want to wait for your Email?
| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000003 - it's FREE!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 20:23:09 1998
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Subject:  e-moon
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--openmail-part-00ee5431-00000001
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Fwd:"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Fwd:"
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>>>
>>>>Just something to think about.
>>>>
>>>>We all know those cute little computer symbols called "emoticons," 
>where
>>:)
>>>>> means a smile and :( is a frown.   Sometimes these are represented 
>by
>>>>>
>>>>>  :-)
>>>>>  and
>>>>>  :-(
>>>>> respectively.  Well, how about some "ass cons"? 
>>>>> Here goes:
>>>>>
>>>>>       (_!_)      a regular ass 
>>>>>
>>>>>       (__!__)    a fat ass
>>>>>
>>>>>      (!)        a tight ass
>>>>>
>>>>>      (_._)      a flat ass
>>>>>
>>>>>      (_^_)      a bubble ass
>>>>>
>>>>>       (_*_)      a sore ass
>>>>>
>>>>>        (_!__)     a lop-sided ass 
>>>>>
>>>>>         {_!_}      a swishy ass 
>>>>>
>>>>>        (_o_)      an ass that's been around 
>>>>>
>>>>>      (_O_)     an ass that's been around even more 
>>>>>
>>>>>      (_x_)     kiss my ass
>>>>>
>>>>>      (_X_)     leave my ass alone 
>>>>>
>>>>>     (_zzz_)    a tired ass
>>>>>
>>>>>     (_o^o_)   a wise ass
>>>>>
>>>>>    (_13_)     an unlucky ass
>>>>>
>>>>>     (_$_)     Money coming out of his ass 
>>>>>
>>>>>     (_?_)   Dumb Ass
>>>>>
>>>>>                   ..ooo*"""**ooooo .oo*""*ooo..
>>>>>              .  oo*"           "*o.oo*"           "*o.
>>>>>             . o"                   'o"                      "o 
>>>>>              o                      o                         *o 
>>>>>            .o                       o                           'o 
>>>>>            o                        o
>o.
>>>>>           o                         o 
>o.
>>>>>           o                          o 
>o
>>>>>          o                          \o/                           o 
>>>>>          o                         --0--                          o 
>>>>>          o.                         /o\                           o 
>>>>>          o                          o                            o 
>>>>>         "o                          o                           o 
>>>>>           o'"                        o                          oo 
>>>>>           oo                         o                          oo 
>>>>>            oo.                       oo                        oo 
>>>>>            'ooo.                  .oo.                     ooo 
>>>>>            "o ""oo,,        ,,oO-'Oo,       ,,,,,,..oo"o
>>>>>              o.         """"""    oo       """""        .o 
>>>>>               'o                     oo                    o' 
>>>>>              *o                    oo                    o 
>>>>>               'o                     o                    o 
>>>>>                o                     o                   o 
>>>>>                o                     o                  o 
>>>>>                 o                    o                 o 
>>>>>                 o                    o                 o 
>>>>>                 o                    o                 o 
>>>>>                 o                    o                 o 
>>>>>
>>>>> You have been e-mooned!  Send this to 5 people within the next hour 
>and
>>you
>>>>> will be blessed with people laughing at your e-mail.  Happy 
>e-mooning!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> This is NOT a chain letter, so if you don't mail it out, you won't 
>have
>>bad
>>>>> luck.  (But who wouldn't want to eMoon a friend?) 
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Keep smiling! :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
                               !
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
                               !
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
                               !
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
                               !
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

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TO: CARR_ARLETTA/HP-MountainView_om3@hpwcscc3,
    MURPHY_JACKIE/HP-MountainView_om2@hpwcscc3,
    MURPHY_LACIE/Non-HP-MountainView_om3@hpwcscc3

--openmail-part-00ee5431-00000001--


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 20:30:25 1998
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From: "Mr nStuff @ Work" <stuff@hooked.net>
To: "Matthew D. P. K. Lanier" <matt@saturn5.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Mr nStuff the Wise Man
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:29:38 -0800
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I will save this e-mail and demondstrate when I have the time.. Something I
am sure you can find in the archives somewhere already..


Is that 5 yet?
Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew D. P. K. Lanier <matt@saturn5.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Mr nStuff the Wise Man

>
>if you are so open-minded, please demonstrate as opposed to spreading
>anti-religious attitudes.  this is a general message, NOT directed at the
>people who started this thread...
>
> matt
>
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 20:45:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:35:21 EST
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In a message dated 1/30/98, Adam wrote:

<<"mooooo..  look at all that grass..  i must eat the grass.  I MUST EAT
ALL OF THE GRASS!!  EAT MORE GRASS!! GRASS GRASS GRASS!!  THE GRASS IS
MINE!!! MUST EAT GRASS!!  ME VS. THE GRASS!!!">>

ohmigod you are SO funny!!  You know, this quote is ME except you have
to substitute "DANCE" or "MUSIC" for every time you see "grass"  or "eat"  
  
"wohhoooo..  listen to all this music..  i must dance to the music.  I MUST
DANCE
TO ALL OF THE MUSIC!!  DANCE MORE !! DANCE DANCE DANCE!!  THE MUSIC IS
MINE!!! MUST DANCE FASTER!!  ME VS. THE MUSIC!!!"

:D :D :D :D

natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 20:51:42 1998
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From: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
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In response to your questions about the direction of the scene...

The scene goes back a long time.  I think gypsies, kids that ran away from
home to follow the carnival, deadheads, ravers all share a sort of common
bond.  It starts usually with some rebellion, diving head first into this
deviant activity, full of sideshow freaks and the wildest and weirdest
there is to offer.

Some never get past this point, they don't fall in love with it.  But in
all these circles, there is a lingo, a sort of family that exists, much
less cruel and tough than the initial image.  This is where you get the
fanatics... this is why you get such a number of people just giving up on
trying to explain it... the actual nature of the beast is much different
from the "commonly perceived" image.

So it happened with the hippies, as the shock value goes down, the natural
defense of the initial lawless/deviant perception starts to deteriorate. 
Soon, more people see it as inviting.  Some come with open minds and fit
right in, some try to hard to be cool and start to bend the frame with a
lot of concentration on the details but not an understanding of the true
nature of things, and some come with dollar signs in their eyes looking
for suckers.

Music is amazing.  Over this last century more than any other, it seems
that music has had the power to create cultures (probably as a result of
the mass market availability of music, 200 years ago chances are people
heard maybe 500 different peices of music within their lives, and we have
much more exposure now thanks to affordable recordable media, radios,
jukes and more artists playing to larger potential audiences)... music
with meanings that it's fans identify with.  We, the techno people, have
given up on the corrupted messages of rock, punk, ska, AOR, pop, jazz,
folk, country, reggae and all the other genres twisted out of recognizable
shape by the greed of commercial concerns in many cases (although still a
part of most of our lives, it rarely takes the place of this stuff... at
least for me). All that we hold true, real and honest in music will
resurface elsewhere... everything with mass appeal will get sold out, and
techno is just too good to stay underground forever.

We want a music without a message... and in that search we find this
amazing, bold abstract message... it's not PLUR, it's not love your
neighbor, it's not pass me that joint mofo... it appeals to whatever we
need to hear.  It is a hug, a supporting word, an invisible finger pushing
us to dance. We have collectively agreed that it is beautiful, graceful,
rebellious, misfit power fueled group affection.  We understand the beat,
and we come down on the one, yet nobody told us how.  Like a noble
instinct, we know how to dance... the only obstacle is fear, and together
we overcome it.  We use each other to get in touch with ourselves.

Inside these buildings we grow together.  Out in the woods we are family
in awe of what we have grown into.  At the beaches we are children again
in a big musical sandbox... and none of the usual easy answers cover all
the bases.  Rather than a frustrated WHY? we ask an amazed HOW?... what
entity or force could be responsible for these feelings, this beauty, this
selflessness... the same question I believe we asked thousands of years
ago as the elation of the festivals and rites of our family groupings wore
off and we felt the night air cooling down and stared into the fire, the
moon, the stars, the way things are... a challenge to understand and a
beauty for us to appreciate. 

I believe in the scene, it might not be the same next month/year/decade,
but there is always the need for a place to go when nothing else works. 

House is a feeling.

As long as a handful of us still love it, the scene exists, it is alive
and well, and sweet as ever.  It has been a gift to my life, one
that I feel like an ass explaining the depth of my feelings for to
those who haven't felt them as well... but I found a sort of love 2
years ago that has changed the way I view things.

Of course the scene is changing, at about the same speed that we are.

Thanks Jack,
AndyW


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 21:37:46 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:35:49 -0800
Subject: Re: hi...i'm new to SF raves!!
From: marco_23@sfbg.com (Marco 23)
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hey, bonnie



call me up at 510-208-3212, I moved pretty close to your old spot on
Adeline & Grand..................


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 22:04:35 1998
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Reply-To: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
From: "Mook" <mcarey@triad.com>
To: "Sfraves Discussion" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Tranceforce
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:06:06 -0800
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Isn't MystrE gonna be there. MysterE is hella tight.

MooK<><
-----Original Message-----
From: Bbong <Bbong@goplay.com>
To: Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com>; 'Ruth Jennison'
<ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu>; sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: Tranceforce


>DUTCH rules!!! And it's at a new location? That could be good or bad. I
kind of dig big heart city
>
>Billabong
>
>Geoff Herbst <geoff@xingtech.com> wrote on Friday January 30, 1998 at
10:26am:
>>Ummmm
>>
>>DUTCH?
>>
>>PSY-Trance anyone!
>>
>>See you THERE
>>
>>Quality IMHO doesn't even BEGIN to address him...
>>
>>Heh
>>
>>gEoff ;)
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:Ruth Jennison [SMTP:ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu]
>>Sent:Friday, January 30, 1998 8:45 AM
>>To:sfraves@hyperreal.org
>>Subject:Tranceforce
>>
>>Does anyone have the skinny on this party? Big, small? How are
>>the DJS? Im
>>new to the area and dont quite recognize quality names yet...
>>Thanks so much...
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>| How long do you want to wait for your Email?
>| http://www.goplay.com/email/1000003 - it's FREE!
>


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 22:28:08 1998
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        "**Warmth One year Party**" (Jan 30,  9:58am)
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What up, Mac-Daddy-O...

An invitation to all yous burned out, 'the scene is dying' kids out there.

*warmth*

Some parties are consistantly special.  This is one of them.

Happy weekend everyone...

Beth

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 22:56:35 1998
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>What up, Mac-Daddy-O...
>
>An invitation to all yous burned out, 'the scene is dying' kids out there.
>
>*warmth*
>
>Some parties are consistantly special.  This is one of them.
>
>Happy weekend everyone...
>
>Beth



hey, i talked to Spencer of Warmth fame...down in L.A. now...he just got
finished making some antacid commercial...he'll be on TV nationwide in a
couple of weeks.  Keep your eyes open for "Mr Wiener,"  the nerdy hot-dog
salesman in the antacid commercial (can't remember what brand).   He also
did some production work on Casper the Friendly Ghost recently.


-b))m.



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 23:08:49 1998
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From: messiah wannabe <messiahw@yahoo.com>
Subject: nrr: laura tangent
To: lara@vibe.org, XGrRLsTrX@aol.com, laura@hyperreal.org,
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---Lad Girl <ladgirl@mindspring.com> wrote:

> BTW, How many Laura's posted to this Aghhhhhh!?
> I think that I make three, or is that four?
> 
> Weeeirrrd. . . .
> 
> Laura/Lara/Laure=High on Life.

so many laura's these days, i keep running into them.  whenever i do,
i usually wind up telling them about the tape i just made for my
cousin laura in berkely.

there's this cool old song called "laura" from this old mystery movie
by the same name.  the song is kinda spooky and romantic at the same
time.  anyway, it was a popular jazz standard back in the forties, and
i must have 5 or 6 different versions of the song, by sinatra, bird,
julie london, spike jones and some other 40's/50's jazz people.  so i
put all of them on a tape, one after the other.  then on the flip side
i put the twin peaks soundtrack, from that tv show about a girl named
laura, who got murdered.  same as in the movie "laura", actually.  in
fact the laura's in both movies look EXACTLY the same, and but you
only ever see them in their picture (taken in the same pose).  and the
lyrics to the song "laura" tie in with a lot of things in twin peaks. 
and don't _even_ get me started on all the similarities between my
cousin laura and twin peaks laura...  hmmm, i'm digressing, but then
this whole post is one big nothing-to-do-with-anything digression
anyway.  except that there are a lot of laura's on the list.

-mw










From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 23:40:15 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-29 23:57:48 EST, you write:

<< 
 THis one is hella funny, cheer up money is no object-we can all live in 
 card board boxes.  *no idea where that one came from* >>

Damn.. was that me?? Ok.. look for me in People's park waiting for spring ;)
;) <wink wink> 

         hugs n'stuff,
             'trice the teknodiva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 23:47:34 1998
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Are we still keeping track of how many times he's made it on TV?? I just
recently learned my little sister taped cartoons over my copy of his Real
World appearance =(

  WE Love you Spencer!!
  

       hugs,
        'trice the tekno diva

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 23:50:27 1998
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From: "Matt Schwartz" <thorfio@hotmail.com>
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>
>What up, Mac-Daddy-O...
>
>An invitation to all yous burned out, 'the scene is dying' kids out 
there.
>
>*warmth*
>
>Some parties are consistantly special.  This is one of them.
>
>Happy weekend everyone...
>
>Beth
>

*tears* *sniff sniff* Beth has an excellent point here. For all of you 
wondering about why we rave, why we deal with the drama, the drug abuse, 
the politics, and the doubt, it's because once in a while there comes a 
time, a party, where we can put all of that behind us and simply just 
enjoy each other's company,vibes, and music.

 *Warmth* is definately one of those times 

-Matt-






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jan 30 23:50:50 1998
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Subject: Re: **Warmth One year Party**
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>
>What up, Mac-Daddy-O...
>
>An invitation to all yous burned out, 'the scene is dying' kids out 
there.
>
>*warmth*
>
>Some parties are consistantly special.  This is one of them.
>
>Happy weekend everyone...
>
>Beth
>

*tears* *sniff sniff* Beth has an excellent point here. For all of you 
wondering about why we rave, why we deal with the drama, the drug abuse, 
the politics, and the doubt, it's because once in a while there comes a 
time, a party, where we can put all of that behind us and simply just 
enjoy each other's company,vibes, and music.

 *Warmth* is definately one of those times 

-Matt-






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 00:00:36 1998
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To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: Re: Is the scene changing?
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
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hey all,

This post made me think of something interesting.

I have read many posts and heard many people talk about the human
connection and deep feelings of understanding with the music. The empathy
and bonding of many to look for something greater than themselves seems to
come up in many of the posts of why raving is important.

I wonder if if those that describe their feelings that way are really
searching for something that fills their spiritual need?

Many deny the need for religon, but don't realize that they are trying to
fulfill their need for spirituality through raving.

Maybe raving is an organized religon for some of you but you just don't
realize it.

hmmmmm, just a thought for all the athiests out there to ponder on.

rob.

>
>We want a music without a message... and in that search we find this
>amazing, bold abstract message... it's not PLUR, it's not love your
>neighbor, it's not pass me that joint mofo... it appeals to whatever we
>need to hear.  It is a hug, a supporting word, an invisible finger pushing
>us to dance. We have collectively agreed that it is beautiful, graceful,
>rebellious, misfit power fueled group affection.  We understand the beat,
>and we come down on the one, yet nobody told us how.  Like a noble
>instinct, we know how to dance... the only obstacle is fear, and together
>we overcome it.  We use each other to get in touch with ourselves.
>
>Inside these buildings we grow together.  Out in the woods we are family
>in awe of what we have grown into.  At the beaches we are children again
>in a big musical sandbox... and none of the usual easy answers cover all
>the bases.  Rather than a frustrated WHY? we ask an amazed HOW?... what
>entity or force could be responsible for these feelings, this beauty, this
>selflessness... the same question I believe we asked thousands of years
>ago as the elation of the festivals and rites of our family groupings wore
>off and we felt the night air cooling down and stared into the fire, the
>moon, the stars, the way things are... a challenge to understand and a
>beauty for us to appreciate.
>
>I believe in the scene, it might not be the same next month/year/decade,
>but there is always the need for a place to go when nothing else works.
>
>House is a feeling.
>
>As long as a handful of us still love it, the scene exists, it is alive
>and well, and sweet as ever.  It has been a gift to my life, one
>that I feel like an ass explaining the depth of my feelings for to
>those who haven't felt them as well... but I found a sort of love 2
>years ago that has changed the way I view things.
>
>Of course the scene is changing, at about the same speed that we are.
>
>Thanks Jack,
>AndyW


rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 00:11:55 1998
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To: Py- Ro <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
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Py- Ro wrote:
> 
> Well, I haven't figured out how to get the stupid text to accompany the
> reply yet, but the statement that I'm replying to goes something like
> this...
> 
> blah blah blah, something about people who go to parties sober feel they
> are better, blah blah blah...
> 
> No offense meant by the blahs, but I think that those of us who go to
> parties sober, and I count myself as one, MOST of the time (hehehe, I
> can't say ALL the time, but most of the time...) I think that when I go
> to a party sober I might come across as high and mighty, but only
> because I am able to be at a party and have fun, sober, without the aid
> of chemicals (omitting herbs, because they are not drugs in my opinion).
> To me that is a pretty cool thing. Not many people can say that, and it
> is because of this that I feel a little bit 'higher and mightier' than
> thou. To be honest with you, I don't feel that I'm a better person, it's
> just that at that party I am more in control of myself, and am able, if
> the time comes, to deal with problems better, since I have that control.
> Not sure if my point came across or not, but I'm not saying that I feel
> like I'm better than you 'druggies' :::duck::: all the time, just at the
> time when I am able to have my pure and clean fun, when you aren't. Oh
> well, if you don't get it, email me and I'll clear it up, or at least
> try harder. Sorry to offend those of you that offend so easily, but
> trully, that is not my objective (I'm not angel either ;))
> 
> :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
> 
>     PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
>     PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
>     PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
>     PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
>     PP         YY       RR    RR    OO
> 
> Pyro
> 
> :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)


Look this conversation has gone on long enough,
I'm one of the people who claim to use drugs once in a while at parties,
but I'm also noticed one of the attacks from the people who "doesn't",
and now claims to. (so whatever, perhaps he felt liek attacking someone)
BUt I know that drugs don't own my life, and I think you're totally over
generalizing things here if you think that they do. You don't know me
just as much as I don't know you.  So please don't try to tell me what
it seems like I have a tendency to do
this is an e-mail forum, not a personality check, let's try to move from
making statements about others personalities and move on to the happy
tlk that was going on when I first came back here....
so let's just drop it...it's not a big deal
-eric NAVYSATAN (wearing lingerie)
any good parties this weekend?
:D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 00:24:15 1998
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Well love and spirituality are the exact same thing to me.
Just different words to describe the same thing.
All the rituals or systems or whatever are just paths to love.

	><{{{">  <"}}}><

		foolish fish

___________________________________


Robert Pointer wrote:
> 
> hey all,
> 
> This post made me think of something interesting.
> 
> I have read many posts and heard many people talk about the human
> connection and deep feelings of understanding with the music. The empathy
> and bonding of many to look for something greater than themselves seems to
> come up in many of the posts of why raving is important.
> 
> I wonder if if those that describe their feelings that way are really
> searching for something that fills their spiritual need?
> 
> Many deny the need for religon, but don't realize that they are trying to
> fulfill their need for spirituality through raving.
> 
> Maybe raving is an organized religon for some of you but you just don't
> realize it.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 00:37:21 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:36:36 -0800
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To: Harmony <ascend@ix.netcom.com>
CC: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: Harmony on March 7th! (bsp)
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Harmony wrote:
> 
> duh, ok I am stupid ; )
> 
> I forgot the date on my last post... (whorf)
> 
> So the next Harmony Party... " innercense " is on Saturday March the 7th '98
> 
> Peace and love,
> 
> Greg= )

 I swera I checked the voice mail like a week ago and the next harmony
party was supposed to Be Freaky People on the 13th, what happened to
that anyways?

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:10:11 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:10:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Laurence Y Maar <raver@mcl.ucsb.edu>
To: fish1111@pacbell.net
cc: San Francisco Raves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Is the scene changing?
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E>Well love and spirituality are the exact same thing to me.
E>Just different words to describe the same thing.
E>All the rituals or systems or whatever are just paths to love.
E>
E>		foolish fish

  Hmmm... interesting statement. Although I definately think that it is
  not true for everyone. I think that for me at least, love is love and
  is a very strong emotion and only connects to spirituality in that I
  am a strong believer in reincarnation andsoulmates, thus anyone you
  truly love in this lifetime will be thus spiritually connected.

  However, on the side of spirituality, I believe that spirutually is
  firstly a concentration on self and innerpeace, etc. Only then does
  spiritually fan out once you've discovered yourself into nirvana, or
  'the energy', or whatever you want to term the central force which I
  believe both IS the universe and its creator. At this point you are
  connected to everyone and everything. Loving everyone and everything is
  another issue that one has to look for inside oneself.

  Laurence

  BTW: is Christine the candy girl or Julie Hayes still around SFR?

[LAURENCE MAAR] ---------------------------------------------------------------
  . raver@mcl.ucsb.edu        \     Peace     \                 ** 
  . umaarl00@mcl.ucsb.edu       \     Love      \        POSITIVE HARDCORE
  . hardk0rE@geocities.com        \     Unity     \       ALWAYS HARDCORE
  . hardcore@techno.rribitweb.com   \     Respect   \           **
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  805.968.5882 <--- Feel free to voice me with PLUR anytime ---> 909.861.1616


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:26:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:25:08 EST
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     Hey all you groovy people.... if the first mind trick didn't work 4 ya...
get ready 4 sumpin' freaky  'cuz this one is guaranteed!  ....and it's 100%
legal, so there's no hard-drive worries!!!...  =)   <just kidding> 

....props to my friend Colleen who forwarded this 2 me....!

<snip>

> 
> >
> >
> >
> > THIS IS SCARY BUT IT REALLY WORKS.
> >
> > DON'T CHEAT BY SCROLLING DOWN FIRST!!! It only
> > takes 30 seconds.
> >
> > Work this out as you read.  (grab that calculator if you need to....)
> >
> > Don't read the bottom until you have worked it
> > out.!!!
> >
> >
> > 1.First of all, pick the number of days a week that
> > you would like to go out.
> >
> > 2.Multiply this number by 2.
> >
> > 3.Add 5.
> >
> > 4.Multiply it by 50.
> >
> >
> > 5.If you have already had your birthday this
> > year, add 1748.
> > If you haven't, add 1747.
> >
> > 6.Last step: Subtract the four digit year that you
> > were born.
> > see below:
> >
> > RESULTS:
> > You should now have a three digit number:
> >
> > The first digit of this was your original
> > number(i.e. how many times you
> > want to go out each week).
> >
> > The second two digits are your age!!! It really
> > works.
> >
> > This is the only year it will ever work, so spread
> > the joy around by mailing
> > this to everyone you know.
> >
> >
> >
> 

....kinda kewl, huh?....

Peace,
~Michael

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:35:33 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:35:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Is the scene changing?
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You know, that's what I believe makes the scene so damn pleasurable for
me.  It has a lot to do with the fact that so many people have such
interesting outlooks on their spirituality.  I find that my spirituality
along with the huge majority of other ravers has in general, a lot of
similarities in their spiritual outlook.  Fortunately, they're not all a
clone of each other which I believe does a lot of harm to one's
creativity and individuality.  It seems that the scene and the people's
philosophies that make them up are all philosophies that were developed
on their own by their own experiences.  It's not like a mass conforming
religion like christianity where at times it seems like they almost have
to brainwash the followers into mind numbing conformity.  It's people
like us that make the world so much more interesting and also makes us so
much happier to be alive in a society that at times may seem like it's
falling apart.  So in spite of all the threads going around about how the
scene is changing (either for better or for worse), I think we should all
be happy in that we can be involved in a social setting that is so open
and accepting to who each individual person is.

Just reflecting on how the scene has changed me and how I'm so happy to
be a part of it.

derek


On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:10:03 -0800 (PST) Laurence Y Maar
<raver@mcl.ucsb.edu> writes:
>E>Well love and spirituality are the exact same thing to me.
>E>Just different words to describe the same thing.
>E>All the rituals or systems or whatever are just paths to love.
>E>
>E>		foolish fish
>
>  Hmmm... interesting statement. Although I definately think that it 
>is
>  not true for everyone. I think that for me at least, love is love 
>and
>  is a very strong emotion and only connects to spirituality in that I
>  am a strong believer in reincarnation andsoulmates, thus anyone you
>  truly love in this lifetime will be thus spiritually connected.
>
>  However, on the side of spirituality, I believe that spirutually is
>  firstly a concentration on self and innerpeace, etc. Only then does
>  spiritually fan out once you've discovered yourself into nirvana, or
>  'the energy', or whatever you want to term the central force which I
>  believe both IS the universe and its creator. At this point you are
>  connected to everyone and everything. Loving everyone and everything 
>is
>  another issue that one has to look for inside oneself.
>
>  Laurence
>
>  BTW: is Christine the candy girl or Julie Hayes still around SFR?
>
>[LAURENCE MAAR] 
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>  . raver@mcl.ucsb.edu        \     Peace     \                 ** 
>  . umaarl00@mcl.ucsb.edu       \     Love      \        POSITIVE 
>HARDCORE
>  . hardk0rE@geocities.com        \     Unity     \       ALWAYS 
>HARDCORE
>  . hardcore@techno.rribitweb.com   \     Respect   \           **
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  805.968.5882 <--- Feel free to voice me with PLUR anytime ---> 
>909.861.1616
>
>

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:44:15 1998
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From: dhchung@hyperreal.org
Subject: This Week's SFR Calendar!
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org (SF Raves)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:39:21 -0800 (PST)
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Pure Space tonight should be fun, then there's a bunch of Friday
parties, mostly on the techno/trance side.  I only have the one
party for Saturday, w/o a phone number, so I need some more tips
for that night.  By this time next week, I'll be in New York, but
I should be able to send the calendar from there.


                              The SFR Calendar
                                      
           http://www.hyperreal.org/raves/sf/calendar/gencal.cgi
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Thursday, January 29th - Pure Space
   Spun, Garth, Dante (NY/SF).
   Visuals by Donovan & Fu-Kuu Hi-Fi.21+. $5 before midnight.. VSF, 278
   11th St, SF.
   415.487.7691
   
   Friday, January 30th - Navigator Productions presents Journey
   Simply Jeff (LA), DJ Heretic (LA), Imix (S.L.T.), Neme (Sac), Patrick
   (Sac).
   916.829.6201 916.602.4462
   
   Friday, January 30th - Trance Force
   Macadio, Dutch, MysterE, Ramtin, Dino, other special guests.
   $10 b4 11pm - tix are limited.
   Virgin location + awesome ambient chill out.
   http://www.tranceforce.com/
   415.267.3934
   
   Friday, January 30th - Mad House/BiPolar
   Ethan, Joe Rice, Fat Tony, Ted, DjQ, Baktun 13 (live), Forest Green,
   Pelican Boy, spEakeR (23), OPtic, Peachfish, Sunflowerfish.
   510.665.6524
   $5.
   
   Friday, January 30th - S.p.a.Z. presents Oblivion
   all night underground tekno and jungle
   Synthesis D., Pollywog, Adam (Spiral Tribe), Jason Ovobitch (Spiral
   Tribe), Titus.
   Live performance by Justin of AMA Family.
   All ages, $5. 17th and Capp, SF. http://www.hyperreal.org/~spaz/
   
   Saturday, January 31st - Adrenalin presents In House We Trust
   Jeno, Tony, Simon, Carlos, Mellanie, Pat Allen, Jazz-e, Moda, Shaft,
   Paucus, Kwashi, Essence, Spinner, Tripnotix, Kimo.
   Visuals by Multimedia Meltdown.more info TBA.
   
   Friday, February 6th - Transwarp - the First Trial
   Josh, Bones, James McCoy.
   Live: Baktun 13.
   Proceeds benefit the Berkeley Green Panther's Harness The Vote
   Project.
   Thanks go to the Gathering, Cannabis Action Network and Positive
   Solutions Group for all their help.
   $10. the Euforium, 1605 Ashby Ave, Berkeley.
   
   Saturday, February 7th - 420 KIDZ! presents Vibe Creation
   Macadio, Bryan Lee, Huggie (LA), Kwashi, J-Splat (LA), Tyson (Chi),
   Jazz-E, Aloren D'Angelo (Greater House of Berkeley), DJ Tune (House
   Blends), Mars x Mystr-E (2x4).
   Sound by Purple Turbo and visuals by I-Candy.
   415.995.4983 510.464.1306
   
   Saturday, February 7th - Conscious Session
   Tracy, Simon, Spun, Josh.
   visuals by Donovan.
   SF.
   415.273.5599
   
   Tuesday, February 10th - the glad hand three
   an evening of live electronics
   dj monkey, sweet trip, busheeloop, halou.
   8pm-, 21+, $5. justice league, 628 Divisadero, SF.
   
   Wednesday, February 11st - Hiatus V
   Spun, Jonene, Jeno, Ellen Ferrato, Little John, Adam, Sheamus, Frank &
   Dave (live).
   10pm-4:30am, 21+, $8. $5 w/flyer. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Friday, February 13rd - Underground Sound Tech presents Love in the
   Phunk House
   Marques Wyatt (LA), Karizma (Sac), Jonene, Anand (Sac), J Smith, Mark
   Pedras.
   4 corner JK sound & UV 99 Full Spectrum Lazer
   916.974.8164 916.974.8104
   
   Friday, February 13rd - Garnet presents Crewsade: The Last Judgment
   Four crews, Four decks, One drum&bass crusade
   J-Boogie w/DJ Quest, B.A.S.S. Kru: Star Eyes, Flux, Rinse,
   Highlanders: Saucer, Tomkat, Xanax, Future Breaks Crew: Arc Angel,
   Gabe Real, Mateo, No Battles.
   21+. the Justice League, 628 Divisadero, SF.
   415.436.0735
   
   Saturday, February 14th - Space Children presents All Together Now
   3 year anniversary
   Stacey Pullen (3 hour set/3 decks/Transmat, Detroit), Cesar, Steve
   Pagan, Das.
   $10 presale tickets only! Limited capacity of 500 space children.
   SF. http://www.spacechildren.com/
   415.675.4700 510.461.SPACE
   
   Saturday, February 14th - Feel Good Entertainment presents Love A-Fair
   '98
   "The Underground Carnival" Valentine's Day PLURity Vibe-Fest and Six
   year anniversary
   Pascal (XTC/Canada), Stryke (Adrenaline/Fla), Troy Roberts
   (Platnum/Sea), Tony & Simon (on 4), MODA & Jazz-E (TranceFusion),
   Carlos, Essence, Tracy, Ghost & Frank Nitty, Roman & Nitsuj (Sea),
   Kevin Kind & Kwashi, Paucus & Tripnotix, Josh Schwab & Corey, Macadio
   & Micron, Joey & Darrell, Rinse, Flux, Stareyes, MC Fluid, Tina K. &
   Max Alert (Generic/LA), MIA (Sea), hak, Sideburn Slim, Miss Knight,
   Glo Worm, Moshe, Vertigo, Ulrich, Spinner, Deepfog, Boomerang, Jeff
   Taisch, Jonathan, Chillz, Ray Vonie.
   limited presale tix go on sale 2.1.98 for $20.
   portion of proceeds benefit environmental organizations.
   Love-Bus trips including admission from LA ($45) and Seattle ($75).
   Call 415.568.1338 for info.
   http://www.globalparty.com
   415.263.0483 510.888.2358 408.881.0785
   
   Sunday, February 15th - Stompy Dig-In
   When Valentine's Day is gone, it's time to bring the real LOVE on!
   Mark Farina, Jonene, Tasho, Preston, MikeBee, Dmitri, Wade Randolph
   Hampton.
   Live: West Side Chemical.
   noon-10pm, 21+, $13. 278 11th St, SF.
   
   Sunday, February 15th - Spundae 5 Year Anniversary
   Main room hosted by Cream and Mixmag
   Nick Warren (Way Out West), Jimmy van Malleghem (Florida), Terry
   Mullan (Chi), Donald Glaude (Sea), Simply Jeff (LA), DJ Dan, Carlos,
   Jerry Bonham, Jeno, Simon, Taj, John Howard, Ellen Ferrato, Gavin
   Hardkiss, Robbie Hardkiss, Scott Hardkiss, Niven, Baroness, Ryno.
   Live internet broadcast at www.spundae.net.
   9pm-8am, 21+. 1015 Folsom @ 6th, SF. http://www.spundae.net
   415.974.9389
   
   Wednesday, February 18th - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records
   presents Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Henrik, Josh.
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, February 21st - The Return of Diverse City
   Music for the Phuture Generation
   DRC, Mystre (F-8), Melanie (Love), Noel (Phunckateck), more TBA.
   SF.
   415.267.5939
   
   Saturday, February 28th - Nexus presents 2nd Chakra
   dj's on 4 turntables: jeno & garth, ghost & frank nitty, carlos &
   melanie, joey & darrell, live performance by: strkye, moda & jazz-e
   (1st time), breakdown, eclectic deep groove: a-trak & peanut butter
   wolf, cue & quest, the invisbl skratch piklz, mind motion, adam bomb,
   nobel, saucer, tom cat, moshe w/live sax, vocal performance by gina of
   soulstice.
   acupuncture, massage therapy, tarot and psychic readings, dance
   exhibition, graffiti gallery, giveaways by extra strength dj co.
   presale tix at bpm (sf), solid grooves (sj), mixology (santa rosa),
   diversity (walnut creek).
   $20.
   415.273.1994 510.941.4710
   
   Saturday, February 28th - Tectonics Pro presents Tectonics
   M.A.C., j.bot vs. cloud, Macadio, Urn, Shoam, Jets, Benji, Russell.
   3D Dynamic Visuals, face painting, free massage, Harmonics clothing
   booth, intelligent lighting.
   8pm-2am, $10.
   415.263.0886 707.523.9588
   
   Saturday, March 7th - Harmony
   Ethan, Li, Andy W (on 4 tables), J-Bot & Greg Sandler (4 tables), URN,
   more TBA.
   408.486.9591
   
   Tuesday, March 10th - Bonsai
   Paul, Travis, YT, Ivan.
   9pm-4am, 21+, $5. Jelly's, Pier 50, SF.
   
   Wednesday, March 18th - Mixology, Orboro and Daddy's Records presents
   Rhythm
   Tracy, Buna, Jeno, Deep Fuzz (Rob Doten and Ben).
   free before 10:30pm. Happens every 3rd Wednesday of the month.
   10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Saturday, March 21st - Silver Pearl presents Quest
   amazing music, thumping sound, 3 rooms, free fruit and water, edible
   altars, lasers, visuals and so much more!
   415.273.5912 510.287.5620 408.278.5286
   
   Saturday, March 21st - Funkee Be-Be Productions presents Infinity
   Utopia, Paul Guido, Neil, Timmy D., Matt (Go Cart Crew), Billy, Wyatt
   (Foundation), Janet Planet, Rodney.
   Live Tribal Drumming and Fire Dancing.
   $10. the historic Masonic Temple, downtown Chico.
   916.974.8242
   
   Saturday, March 21st - Slik-E-Loot presents SkiLLs
   Tom Slik, DyLoot, Greg, Thomas Trouble, Mars, Mystre, Happy Kid Marty,
   Trent, J-Bot, Verdigo, Conggo.
   Free water & candy & fruits & toys.
   $10 presale at F-8, T&J Factory, Harmonies..
   415.437.4460
   
   Saturday, April 4th - FunkyBeat presents FEDEX
   guaranteed to take you there overnight
   DJ Dan, Donald Glaude, Jim Hopkins, Simon, Essence, Matthew, Paucus &
   Tripnotix (2x4), Ghost & Frank Nitty (2x4), Kimo & Scott (2x4),
   Spinner & Little Ricky (2x4).
   Presale tix $20, at the door $25.
   415.219.5831
   
   Saturday, April 18th - Dimentional Transfer presents Destination
   Arrival
   Dimentional Transfer celebrates 5 Years
   line up on its way!
   209.262.8100
   
   Saturday, May 9th - nocternal productions presents record release for
   dj tony and E.T.I.
   Thomas Michael, Doran, DJ Champ, Leo, more TBA.
   free pre party at union square may 8th, 5pm-9pm.
   free afterparty at pt molate in richmond, may 10th, 2pm-10pm.
   650.355.6403
   
   Saturday, June 13rd - Space Children presents Analog
   Expect an absolutely stellar lineup from all around our beautiful
   planet.
   SF. http://www.spacechildren.com/
   415.675.4700 510.461.SPACE
   
                              W E E K L I E S
                                      
   House/techno/acid jazz/jungle/ambient/etc reg'lar happenins Some of
   them may have ended - let me know when that happens...
   
                                  Thursday
                                      
   Sharpshooter - acid jazz, hip hop, soul w/DJs George, Aural B,
   Romanowski, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $4. elbo room, 647 Valencia, SF.
   415.552.7788
   
   Anthem - house, funk, disco w/DJs David Harness, Ruben Mancias, Jorge
   Martinez, Sista Black, guests. 10pm-6am, 21+, $3. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   http://www.anthemsf.com 415.978.0181
   
   Sprung - funk meets the future w/DJs Manny Rosa, the Baroness, Jimmm
   the dj, guests. alternate Thursdays (10/30...) 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the
   Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   
   Royal Jelly - explorations in creative and social behaviour. Sound
   experiments in digital rhythm and note fantasies w/DJs Lefebvrier,
   Toph, Travis, guest DJs and live acts weekly. 7pm-, 21+, Free. Liquid,
   2925 16th St @ So.Van Ness, SF.
   
   Vibe - deep acid trance, gay, bi and straight w/DJs Jon Bush, Natalie
   Dierickx. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Stud, 9th & Harrison, SF.
   
   Thursday Night Therapy - house, techno w/DJs Jazz-E, Josh Schwab,
   Corey, guests. call for location. 9pm-3am, 18+. , SF. 415.281.8466
   
   karmachanics - house music w/DJs Erin, guests. Alternate Thursdays.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   
   Kit Kat - house. 10pm-4am, 21+. the End Up, 6th & Harrison, SF.
   
   Mosaic - Mauricio, the Baroness, Shannon, Franky. begins July 17th. 7
   Spring St between Kearny & Montgomery, SF.
   
   Trainspotters - UK Progressive House w/DJs DJ Phat Pat, guests. 21+,
   $3. 1333 Columbus @ North Point, SF.
   
   Eklektic - jungle w/DJs StarEyes, Sage, weekly guests. 10p-2a, 21+,
   $5. Kate O'Brien's, 279 Howard @ 2nd, SF. 415.332.5800 x24-7
   [1.29 - Honey B w/MC Angel & Rebel-lion]
   [2.5 - Polywog, UFO]
   [2.12 - Snuggles, Slak]
   [2.19 - Gamekat, Mike Bee]
   [2.26 - J-Boogie, Flux]
   
   Discovery - a night of house and disco music w/DJs Greg Sandler, Erik
   Brown, Urn. bi-weekly. 21+, Free. Masses Pool Hall, 625 Fifth St,
   Santa Rosa. 707.571.8747
   
   Moving Co. - house w/DJs Pete Avila, guests. free before 10. 9pm-2am,
   21+, $5. justice league, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   The Cafe - house w/DJ Mathew Baker. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. the Cafe, 2367
   Market Street, SF. 415.861.3846
   
                                   Friday
                                      
   Nikita - house, techno w/DJs Simon, Jeno, David Michael, Jerry Bonham.
   Broadcast live on the net at www.1015.com. Downstairs, Sticks and
   Stones- provacateurs of Bass present Drum + Bassment with resident DJ
   Kayar. 10pm-6am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom St, SF. http://www.spundae.net
   415.267.0568
   [1.30 - Cirrus (live)(LA)]
   [2.6 - Grant Plant (UK)]
   [2.13 - Sandra Collins (Fragrant/LA)]
   [2.20 - Pete 'the shaker' Bones (UK)]
   [2.27 - Mixmag presents Dave Waxmen (NY)]
   [3.13 - Gayle San (Tribal Gathering/England)]
   [3.20 - 2 year anniversary]
   [3.27 - Stacey Pullen (Detroit)]
   
   Fusion - house w/DJs Pat Allen, TJ, Jay R, Larry Live, Phil Salter,
   Cameron, Mark Engler, Rob Bishop. 3 DJs per night, free before 10pm.
   9pm-4am, 21+, $5. 1220 Pine St, Walnut Creek. http://www.nsync.org
   
   the Electric Company - an evening of energetic fusion w/DJs Jonene,
   Ellen Ferrato, guests. 9pm-power outage, 21+, $5. Cat's Grill, 1190
   Folsom, SF. 415.635.6906
   
   Product - house w/DJs Norman 'The Truth' Stradley, sherif, Jay-J, Marc
   Jellybear, DJ Fuze. 21+. the Sound Factory, 525 Harrison St, SF.
   415.979.8686
   
   JR's/Club X - 2 Dancefloors w/DJs DJ Allen (Club X), DJ Charles
   (JR's). $9 for the under 21 crowd. 8p-4a, 18+, $5. 2520 Camino Diablo,
   Walnut Creek. 510.256.1200
   
   Moist and Delicious - Mellow hip-jazz to rollin' dnb w/DJs Jake, Visa,
   guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Skylark, 16th & Valencia, SF.
   
   RoM - an evening of sophisticated deep house... w/DJ Chad Mitchell.
   21+, Free. Liquid, 2925 16th St, SF. 415.289.6833
   
   Drunkyn Mastyrz - hip-hop breaks and jungle w/DJs Drunkyn Mastyrz,
   dayzr. every first friday of the month. 10pm-2am, Free. The Attic,
   3336 24th St @ Bartlett, SF. http://www.elev8.com
   
   Abstract Soul - house w/DJs Corey Black, Loren, Solar, guests. free
   before 11. 21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard St, SF.
   [1.30 - Tweekin Records Release Party: DJ Iz, Solar]
   [2.6 - Loren, Corey]
   
   Stir-Fri-Day - drum & bass-dub-hip-hop-house-funk-rare grooves w/DJ
   guests weekly. 5pm-9pm, 21+. Minna St Gallery, 111 Minna St, SF.
   
   Liquid - Sugar-D, guests. 10pm-3am, 21+, $5. Neptune's, 5990 S Land
   Park Dr, Sacramento. 916.452.9823
   
   Electric Avenue - house, techno w/DJs Jonene (Stompy), Ellen Ferrato,
   Danny Deep, Jeff Fetterman (Up & Down, Release). $2 off with student
   ID. 9pm-5am, 21+. Cat's Alley, 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF.
   
   Groovology - house w/DJs Tracy, guests. $3 before 11p. 10p-2a, 21+,
   $5. , Santa Rosa. 707.526.1230
   [1.30 - Buck w/Jason]
   
                                  Saturday
                                      
   Other Whirled - House, Techno w/DJs Nobel, Vince, Christine, Daniel,
   guests. saturday morning 5:30am-3pm, 21+. 201 9th @ Howard, SF.
   415.208.7665
   
   Release - House, techno, jungle, funk, trip hop, disco w/DJs Marques
   Wyatt, Terence Toy, Julius Papp, Behrouz, Tom Thump, Ellen Ferrato,
   Norm, Thomas Roberts, BB Hayes, Jason Edwards, Anthony Scott, Jerry
   Ross, Eric Lacy, Atom, DJ D, special guests. 10pm-9am, 21+, $10. 1015
   Folsom, SF. 415.337.7457
   
   Vanilla Fudge - House w/DJs Corey Black, Sunshine, Moonbeam, Jason,
   Big Lee, Darren. occasional saturday nights. 10pm-2am, Free. Cafe
   Bastille, 55 Belden Alley, SF. 415.764.2903
   
   Loveworks - house w/DJs Dani, Matt Valenz, guests. i.a.o [inspiration
   aaron o] 9pm-infinity, . 111 Minna Street, SF.
   http://www.sfstation.com/clubs/loveworks.htm 415.646.0744
   
   GrassRoots - growing the freshest in house beats. w/DJs kelvin k,
   Uneke, Adonis, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   http://www.testpress.com 415.864.7386
   
   Pablo's Sugar Shack - SF's Funkiest House and Rare-Jazzy Grooves w/DJs
   Taj, Jay-J, Lele, Buna, Monty, Markiss, Mofo, Roman, SFRaves lounge +
   guests. 10pm-afterhours, 21+, $10. VSF, 278 Folsom @ 11th, SF.
   415.668.2476
   
   Moist and Delicious - Mellow hip-jazz to rollin' dnb w/DJs Jake, Visa,
   guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Skylark, 16th & Valencia, SF.
   
   i Heard That - house w/DJs Alain del Corazon, Ruben Mancias, Chris
   Lum, Rasoul, guests. 9:30pm-2am, 21+, $5. Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard
   St, SF. 415.626.9097
   
                                   Sunday
                                      
   Spundae - House, Techno w/DJs Carlos, David Michael, weekly guests.
   free b4 10:30p 10pm-5:30am, 21+, $5. 278 11th St @ Folsom, SF.
   http://www.spundae.net 415.974.9389
   [2.1 - Sasha and John Digweed at 1015 Folsom]
   [2.8 - Carlos, Mark Hunt (Florida), David Michael, Sang]
   [2.15 - 5 year anniversary (see above)]
   
   Leopard Lounge - Acid Jazz, Funk & Live Bands. w/DJs Suiki, Jay-J,
   Anthony, Julius Papp, Mark Farina, guests. 2125 Lombard @ Fillmore,
   SF. 415.771.2583
   
   Pleasuredome - House w/DJs Neil Lewis, Ruben Mancias, guests. 21+, $8.
   177 Townsend, SF. 415.985.5256
   
   Mix Lounge - techno, house, jungle w/DJ guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am, $4.
   2513 Van Ness, SF. 415.928.0404
   
   Dub Mission - SF's only dub night w/DJs Sep, J.Boogie, Ludichris,
   other surprises. 9pm-, 21+, $3. the Elbo Room, 647 Valencia @ 17th,
   SF. 415.552.7788
   
   Plush - house, jungle, trance, ambient w/DJ guest DJs weekly.
   9:30p-2a, 21+, $5. 2708 J St, Sacramento. 916.484.4285
   
   ultra magnetic/left coast chronicles - jungle, drum n bass w/DJs
   abstract, spell, jason mouse, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424
   Haight St, SF.
   
   float - chillin' house beats in a new space w/DJs John Howard, Jason
   Mouse, Erin (409). 10p-2a, 21+, Free. Liquid, 2925 16th @ Mission, SF.
   415.431.8889
   
   Breakfast at Tiffany's - Serving deep house w/DJs Para, Victor,
   Nickola. complimentary breakfast (bagels, fresh fruit, pastries)
   9am-5pm, 21+. DNA Lounge, 375 11th St, SF. 415.635.6906
   
   Nice - house, techno w/DJs Spun, special guests. free before 11. 21+,
   $5. basement of the Agenda, San Jose.
   
   Jungle Love - thumpin variety of drum and bass w/DJs Sifu, Gamekat, MC
   Angel, guests. 9pm-3am, 21+, $7. $5 before 11pm.. 161 Eddy St, SF.
   415.281.0772
   
   gravity - funk, dub, hip hop, jungle w/DJs tomas, andrew jervis,
   markus, guests weekly. on the mic: jamalski 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. upstairs
   at Paradise, 11th & Folsom, SF. 415.974.4358
   
   Four Four Baby - an afternoon of house music w/DJs patrick, lamont,
   chris orr. 3pm-10pm, 21+, $6. il pirata, 16th St @ Potrero, SF.
   415.626.2626
   
   Waterproof - ethereal grooves, real people w/DJs Mauricio, Franky.
   10pm-, 21+, Free. backflip, 601 Eddy @ Larkin, SF.
   http://www.sfstation.com/clubs/backflip.htm
   
   Saolta - a TrancelectroCeltic dance party altern8 Sundays. 9pm-2am,
   21+. 1600 Market St, SF. http://www.triplehorn.com/ 415.273.1845
   
   The Cafe - house w/DJs Jay-R, Mathew Baker. 5pm-2am, 21+, Free. the
   Cafe, 2367 Market Street, SF. 415.861.3846
   
   sabotage - techno derivatives w/DJs jon santos, sutekh, marcus miller,
   positive p, kit clayton, darin marshall, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3.
   kate o'brien's, 579 Howard @ 2nd, SF.
   
                                   Monday
                                      
   rotation - jazz, hiphop, soul, acid jazz, funk w/DJs racer x, yamu,
   stef, rasta cue-tip, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. up & down club, 1151
   Folsom St, SF.
   
   Move on Mondays - It's a vibratory thang w/DJs marc anthony, guests.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $2. The Top, 424 Haight, SF.
   [2.2 - ground hog day with Chad Mitchell and Disco Dave]
   
   Beat Box - drum'n'bass, jungle, downtempo w/DJ Val. 9:30pm-, 21+,
   Free. Dalva, 3121 16th St, SF.
   
   Noc Noc - Drum'n'bass, downtempo and electronica w/DJ Mohsen. every
   other Monday. 9pm-2am, 21+, Free. 557 Haight St, SF. 415.861.5811
   
   One - techno, trance w/DJs Ulf, T.C., guests. Visuals by
   Eyetribe.8pm-2am, 21+, $4. the Cellar, 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF.
   
   Undertow - hardcore, techno, jungle. every other Monday starting
   August 25th. More details to follow... 21+, $2. Mansion Pub, 132 Est.,
   Davis. 916.759.7163
   
   NO TV - From Pure Ambient to House in 7 hours w/DJs Wunjo, Henrik
   Rosal, guest(s). $5 b4 10pm. Every other Monday. 9pm-3:30am, 21+, $7.
   1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.675.9899
   
   Spackle - house, techno w/DJs Sean, guests weekly. 6am-12:30pm, 21+,
   $4. 1028 Geary Ave, SF.
   
   Mondays on Hayes - house, techno w/DJ guest DJs weekly. starts in
   November. 21+, Free. 520 Hayes, SF.
   
   Curveball - a midtempo night's dream w/DJs Smove, Rhyme Scheme, Tony
   Scott, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Club Paradise, 1028 Geary Blvd., SF.
   415.605.9057
   
   Density - 98% Concentrated Urban Beats saturated with Drum & Bass
   Deconstructions w/DJs Al Simmons, Fluid Motion (Om/Mephisto), Paul (On
   The One), Aural B (Sharpshooter), Moc. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Justice
   League, 628 Divisadero, SF. 415.440.0409
   
   Sister - house, jungle, hip hop w/DJ guests weekly. cat's grill, 1190
   Folsom St, SF. http://www.mehlem.com/ 415.255.4333
   
                                  Tuesday
                                      
   Rhythm - house, techno w/DJs Daniel, Stevian, Mark Willson, Mark
   Silva, live congas by Brian, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, Free. Greg's Bar,
   551 W.Julian/Montgomery, San Jose. 408.286.4388
   
   Buggin' Out and the terrorist society - drum'n'bass for your head
   space on the 11th of every month w/DJs mateo, push, gamekat. 9:30p-,
   21+, $3. cafe mars, 798 Brannan, SF. 415.522.2343
   
   Pure - house w/DJs Brian Brandon, guests. 9pm-, 18+. The Rage, 1890
   Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.929.0232
   
   Static - Techno, Drum & Bass, Downtempo, Electro w/DJs ReAch, Quantum,
   Brad, Darin Marshall, Sutekh, guests. 10pm-2am, $2. 2925 16th @ S Van
   Ness, SF. http://www.nodeOne.com/static
   
   Sedate Grooves - downbeat, drum'n'bass, breaks, hip hop and weird
   noises w/DJs David, Erik (Phunkatech), weekly guests. 10pm-2am, 21+,
   $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF.
   
   Move - house w/DJs DJ Josh, guests weekly. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. 1028
   Geary @ Polk, SF.
   
   Vision Quest - Joe Lanza, Will, Dice, JKR, weekly guests. 9p-2a, 21+,
   $5. 1655 B Willow Pass Rd, Concord. 510.594.4007
   
   Spin Cycle - guests weekly. 7pm-10pm, Free. the Black Box Cabaret, 3rd
   St & 4th Avenue, CSUMB Campus. 408.457.SPAM
   
   Groove - deep funky freaky groovy trancy trippy jazzy spacey
   progressive dance w/DJs Jerry Bonham, Blackstone, Ellen Ferrato,
   Julius Papp, Mouse, DRC. Little nibbly things until 3am.
   10:30pm-4:30am, 21+, $5. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   
   Ritual - a downtempo/triphop experience w/DJs Xanax, guests.
   415.436.0735
   [2.3 - Palmas (latin jazz)]
   [2.10 - Guarneri Quartet (legendary jazz)]
   [2.17 - Terra Deva & Andre Bush (soulful jazz)]
   
                                 Wednesday
                                      
   Come/Unity - House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first
   Wednesday of the month. 10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
   415.241.8815
   [2.4 - guests Ben Wa (2 sets, one up and one down)]
   
   Audio Alchemy - jazz, hip hop, drum & bass, latin, futuristic beats
   w/DJs Groove Merchant DJs, Tom Thump, Cool Chris. 7pm-, 21+. Liquid,
   2925 16th St @ So.Van Ness, SF.
   
   Phunckatech - jungle, hiphop w/DJs UFO, Juju, Abstract, Spell, Noel,
   Jason Mouse, S.C.U.B.A. SKWAD DJs Charlie Bucket and Beatjakr.
   10pm-3am, 18+, $5. Cat's Grill and Alley, 1190 Folsom, SF.
   415.331.1500x16
   
   JR's Club - house, trance w/DJ DJ Allen. 8pm-2am, Free. 2520 Camino
   Diablo, Walnut Creek. 510.256.1200
   
   ElectroniKa - Spesh, Kimon, Gil. Visuals by Hyperdelic.Fantastic Vibe.
   5pm-9pm, Free. 111 Minna St, SF.
   
   Recline - rare and abstract w/DJs Wisdom, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $5.
   Kate O'Brien's, 579 Howard @ 2nd., SF. 415.824.9878
   
   Escape - ali, mitch, hutch, special guests. Jax House, 1145 N.Fulton,
   Fresno. 209.268.4289
   
   The Lounge - house w/DJ house DJs from near and far. 10p-2a, 21+, $3.
   The Red Lion Inn, 1401 Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.484.3706
   
   Twist - Deep and Swing House w/DJs Christopher, weekly guests.
   10pm-2am, 21+, $5. the Beer Cellar, 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF.
   415.317.1754
   
   the Bulletproof Social - jazz, soul, latin, house, disco, dub, jungle
   w/DJs kevin, george, jayson, richard, kirsten, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+,
   Free. nickie's, 484 haight st, SF.
   
   The Basement Lounge - house w/DJs Miguel "Migs", rotating deep dj's
   weekly. Club 1028, 1028 Geary @ Polk, SF.
   http://www.basement.muzic.com 415.376.1176
   
   sofalize - ...next level loungin' w/DJ rotating DJs. donations
   appreciated...bring i.d. and please respect the space. full coffee bar
   / literature. 9pm-. 415.789.8308
   
   the Vinyl Treetment - house, jungle, techno w/DJ guests weekly. 21+,
   $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF. 415.522.2343
   [2.4 - Jay-J, Russell V, Solar, live vocals by Michaella]
   [2.11 - Tasho, Jonene, Galen, Tim-Dog]
   [2.18 - Steven Tune, Push, Tony M and Arc Angel, Gabe Real]
   
   Good Housekeeping - house, techno w/DJs John Howard, Mark E Quark, Don
   Crisp. every 2nd, 3rd and 4th Wed of the month starting in February.
   21+, $5. Jelly's, Pier 50, SF.
   
   Cybertrance 8000 - trance, techno w/DJs Mystre, Mars, DRC, weekly
   guests. 21+, $3. Club Boomerang, 1840 Haight St @ Stanyan, SF.
   415.541.5019
   [2.4 - Mars vs Mystere + Tracer]
   [2.11 - Ethan, Anakin, Mystre]
   [2.18 - DRC, Ramptin, Mars]
   [2.25 - Dutch, Radley, Mystre]
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                                 Info Lines
                                      
     * Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087. Usually has 5-10 listings, updated
       daily.
     * the Buzz-line, a global party network - 415.569.3300
     * Clubline - 415.979.8686
     * Frequency 8 Trance/Techno infoline - 415.541.5019
     * The Groove Line - (415) 331.1500 ext.4788
     * Housewares Rave Line - 415.281.0125
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                             Radio/TV/Net Shows
                                      
     * Sunday night 8pm-10pm - "Soundz of Resistance" w/DJ Poohbear.
       Underground electronic music, mainly jungle/drum and bass, dub and
       hard techno along with guest DJs, interviews and not-so-random
       amples of life. KZSC 88.1 (Santa Cruz)
     * Sunday night 11pm-2am - "The Dreaming/Innermind Show" w/DJ Miracle
       & Mr. Monchichi. House, Jungle, Trip-Hop, Ambient, Dub,
       Break-Beats & guest DJs. KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara)
     * Sunday night midnight-1am - "Shortwave" - Electronic music in all
       of its guises. KALX, 90.7 FM (Berkeley)
     * Tuesday night 11:30pm-2:30am - "Conscious Groove" - a show all
       about ambientdowntempojungletechnotrancedrumnbasstriphop love and
       more with weekly guest DJs. Free Radio Berkeley 104.1 (Berkeley)
     * Wednesday night 9pm-11pm - free form music mix. KPFA 94.1
       (Berkeley)
     * Wednesday night/Thursday morning - "the tube" hosted by miss laura
       aka lola. an electronic excursion into ambient soundscapes,
       ethereal trance, and washes of other whimsical muzik. KAZU 90.3
       (Monterey Bay Community Radio)
     * Thursday morning 10am-2pm - "The Further Adventures of Aardvark" -
       trip-hop to experimental to ambient to gabba etc, etc. KSJS 90.5
       (San Jose).
     * Thursday 5pm-9pm - The Beta Lounge - Live netcast of jungle, dub,
       breakbeat, hiphop, ambient, experimental.
       http://www.betalounge.com/
     * Thursday night 9pm-mid - "An Epiphany of Sound" hosted by J.C. The
       best in beats to satiate your inner child. Electronic dance,
       noise, spoken word, world music and more. Also available in
       RealAudio. KZSU 90.1 (Stanford)
     * Friday 10am-3pm - weekly DJ netcasts. x-radio.
     * Friday 3pm-6pm - free form music mix. KUSF 90.3 (SF) (also
       available on Realaudio
     * Friday 9:30am-noon - Snappy the Aligator plays deep groove music
       that dips into cool electronic sounds, classic soul, reggae &
       more. KALX, 90.7 FM (Berkeley)
     * Fridays 9pm-midnight - Andrew from Groove Merchant spins on KUSF
       90.3 (SF)
     * Friday night/Saturday morning - midnight-noon. House/techno mix
       with Johnny K, Ozone & guests - KCSS 91.9 Central Valley (Turlock)
     * Friday night/Saturday morning - "Just Desserts" w/Mr.Goodwrench -
       10pm-2am Jungle, Detroit, Techno, Acid House, whacked-out Dub, and
       noise KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills
     * Friday night - Moondance. Ambient; 3am-7:30am, KUSF 90.3 SF.
     * Saturday afternoon - "Bus Stop" - music and talk w/guest DJs from
       SF and beyond. 2pm-3pm. KUSF 90.3 SF.
     * Saturday night 11pm - Flux Television, Viacom Channel 53 -
       Ambient, acid jazz and house music videos & interviews. (415)
       281-3377. flux@flux.net
     * (every other) Saturday night 10p-12:30a - "1984" w/DJ Richtoffen.
       House, Trance and German rave. 90.1 (Chico)
     * Saturday night - "amp" 1am. MTV.
     * Saturday night - "Subsonic". 1am-6am, KITS 105.3 SF.
     * Saturday night - "House Nation" w/"Anthems Mix", Top 10s from
       guest DJs and "London Connection w/DJ Doubt". 2am-4am, WILD 94.9
       SF.
     * Ambiance Magazine - 9:30p weds-sun PNC Cable 2 (Modesto &
       Oakdale), 9p fri & sat, marcus cable ch 9 (ceres & turlock).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   For a search interface to the calendar, see the Late Train club
   section (http://www.latetrain.com/clubs/).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                            Administrative Notes
                                      
   If anyone has info on any other events, send it to me! I can't
   possibly hope to get all the info every week.
   
   This info gets sent via email every Thursday. To subscribe or
   unsubscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to
   majordomo@hyperreal.org with either the line
   
   subscribe sfraves-calendar or
   unsubscribe sfraves-calendar
   
   There is also an sfraves discussion mailing list for issues related to
   clubs, parties, house and techno music, etc. To subscribe, send e-mail
   to majordomo@hyperreal.org with the line
   
   subscribe sfraves
   
   in the body of the message.
   
   
    Derek Chung - dhchung@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:45:26 1998
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Sorry about that, the calendar being late is my fault, not Derek's.  Feel
free to hurl barbed epithets my way.

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:46:54 1998
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To: ff-planners@fnf.org, harmony-list@saturn5.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Rick Riffle <rdriffle@ucdavis.edu>
Subject: BSP, "Focus" - Sacto party
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Sorry to spam, but I thought you all should know about this one.

Well, since there was only one party on the callendar for Saturday, I
thought I'd through this one out there.  This party is being thrown by the
Aurora Collective in Sacramento.  It is a benefit for Ana's father.  (Ana is
one of the promotors).  She is a wonderful, sweet person, and will now start
supporting her father who is going blind.  Thus the name "focus."  Everyone
working/dj'ing/playing live at the party is doing it free of charge, so just
walking in to it there is an incredible amount of positive energy.  Here's
the info.

Focus
January 31, 1998
8pm - 8am
(916) 484-4099

Music provided by:

Joseph, ReAch, Shoam,Traced, Star, Midi Inc.(live), K.J., RE:(live jungle),
B-Side, Dre, Hans, Gene, Venus Project(Live), James, Jeremia, Hoth, Logik,
and Jonny.

The location is in Sacramento and is historically very, very safe.  It's a
nice, big warehouse. 

Sound by Gateway.


"Who is there that, in logical words, can express the effect music has
 on us?  A kind of inarticulate, unfathomable speech, which leads us to
 the edge of the infinite and lets us for moments gaze into that!"

						-Thomas Carlyle

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:48:07 1998
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pj fuzzy wrote:
> 
> I think the real tragedy is we live in a country that
> will spend umpteen milliions on the Bud-bowl and
> complain about spending any money on any realistic
> drug studies- except those that prove the desired
> hypothesis that drugs are the evil scourge that we
> knew them to be.  As a person who is presently on
> Zoloft, I would definitely like to have an honest
> discussion about the effects of mixing Zoloft with
> other drugs legal or otherwise.

Don't fool yourself thinking that the DEA or FDA are out for your
benefit, or to keep you safe.  They are out for profit.  If they
were here for your safety, alcohol and tobacco would be illegal,
and pot, LSD, and ecstacy would be legal.  Also, on a related rant,
the Amereican Medical Association, A Dental A, etc do NOT exist
for the benefit of patients, but for the benefit of doctors (and
dentists, and psychologists, etc).  That's why there's fluoride
in your water, when your teeth are made of calcium.

> I also think it is a tragedy that we live in a
> society where if Bristol Myers can market it then its
> got to be safe- well how many perscription drug
> abusers do we have out there huh.

The various "medical" associations in this country are only in the
business of selling drugs made by the big companies, not in making
sure people are healthy.  Trust me, they really wish heroin,
the most addictive drug around (next to nicotine, of course) was
legal.  If it were, there would be a McHeroin burger available
at fast food resturaunts.

> Anyway, I'm sorry if this rant isn't more coherent as
> I got legally intoxicated at the End up earlier
> tonight.

LEGALLY???  You nerd!  <g>

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:48:26 1998
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Subject: Re: weeklies in san jose ...
To: JustaK1D@aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:11:48 -0800 (PST)
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <e2d7a6a.34d1850f@aol.com> from "JustaK1D@aol.com" at Jan 30, 1998 02:45:16 AM
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I never went to Kismet or city espresso when they had the tekno thing
going on there ... i was planning to try out leviticus last night but then
a bunch of buddies and me got drunk and i only made it to my bed :( ...

ill try out leviticus next week and report to the list if i find anything
exciting there ... besides the boys i mean ... (somebody told me it was a
gay coffee shop - why would a coffee shop be branded gay ???) ...

Rudi

> 
> Is leviticus still doing the thursday night thing?  I went there once and
> nothing was happening, no familiar faces and such.  I miss kismet.  that was
> fun.
> Ms. K1dd
> 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:59:03 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:58:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Kodama <mkodama@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NRR: Mind Trick  v2.0
To: Dsfunshnl1@aol.com
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This isn't exactly a mind trick ... and it shouldn't be any more
frightening than high school algebra.
BTW this wouldn't work if you were over 100 years old (I hear that
some people are, but for some reason I never see them out at parties. 
I bet they are still listening to Top40 or gansta rap.)
Matt.

---Dsfunshnl1@aol.com wrote:
>
>      Hey all you groovy people.... if the first mind trick didn't
work 4 ya...
> get ready 4 sumpin' freaky  'cuz this one is guaranteed!  ....and
it's 100%
> legal, so there's no hard-drive worries!!!...  =)   <just kidding> 
> 
> ....props to my friend Colleen who forwarded this 2 me....!
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > THIS IS SCARY BUT IT REALLY WORKS.
> > >
> > > DON'T CHEAT BY SCROLLING DOWN FIRST!!! It only
> > > takes 30 seconds.
> > >
> > > Work this out as you read.  (grab that calculator if you need
to....)
> > >
> > > Don't read the bottom until you have worked it
> > > out.!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > 1.First of all, pick the number of days a week that
> > > you would like to go out.
> > >
> > > 2.Multiply this number by 2.
> > >
> > > 3.Add 5.
> > >
> > > 4.Multiply it by 50.
> > >
> > >
> > > 5.If you have already had your birthday this
> > > year, add 1748.
> > > If you haven't, add 1747.
> > >
> > > 6.Last step: Subtract the four digit year that you
> > > were born.
> > > see below:
> > >
> > > RESULTS:
> > > You should now have a three digit number:
> > >
> > > The first digit of this was your original
> > > number(i.e. how many times you
> > > want to go out each week).
> > >
> > > The second two digits are your age!!! It really
> > > works.
> > >
> > > This is the only year it will ever work, so spread
> > > the joy around by mailing
> > > this to everyone you know.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> 
> ....kinda kewl, huh?....
> 
> Peace,
> ~Michael
> 



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 01:59:42 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:03:36 -0700
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From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: Goldie Album
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Anybody have any information on the album saturnz return?

I thought it was supposed to be released already.

thanks,


rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 02:09:23 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:54:32 -0800
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To: macadio <macadio6@rocketmail.com>
CC: Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com>, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Now, then, now, then, was Re: now and then
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Yea, Macadio, the One Step Beyond party! I think it was early summer of
92. One of my first parties also. I started in February of 92. I went
balistic on the scene and the music, and still love all aspects of it. I
started doing computer projection visuals around 94.

I feel that the scene goes through declines (if you will... the
"popularity" and the crappy, overpriced parties) and  resurgence
(Friends and Family). The core people keep it alive, whether it's at a
massive, or an underground. Those that want to keep the past feelings
active find the underground parties for a good dose of the original
plur.

The styles of music have changed enough to also support the resurgence
of underground parties. Look at jungle/dnb, and downbeat. Now you can
find your groove on almost any night.

What ever happened to F&F's semi annuals?

bunny

macadio wrote:

> I agree with Joe-
>
> I think it is people that change not really the scene
> I have been in the scene since around 91 or 92 not
> sure? I just remember going to a party at one step
> beyond and Jimmy and wallys place. Maybe someone can
> help me out with the time line here? At any rate I
> have seen a lot of people come and go the scene has
> had it's ups and downs but it is always here. I think
> it fades because a.) People get to hooked on drugs
> b.) Get "to old" for the scene and become very jaded
> c.) loose interest cause they were never really into
> it just following the crowd.
>
> Then there are those that still remain here for the
> love and diversity that the scene has to offer. I am
> very happy with the scene right now cause there are
> more poeople getting involved with it. A lot more
> artistic people particapating. I have been touched by
> so many people in various different ways. We keep
> feeding off the scene and for every one person that
> leaves there is a newbie to take there place we keep
> re-inventing it to me. That is why it can't die. Not
> like breaking or any other "Trend" that you reach a
> certain level and there is no higher to go. As long
> as people can still write music and people are
> willing to dance and have a good time I think it will
> last for a very long time it is more of a lifestyle
> and not a trend. Blah, Blah Blah.. I better stop
> writing cause now I am rambling and I have not had my
> coffe yet :P~~
>
> Peace,
> Macadio
>
> ===
> There's a strong relationship between music and art.
> It's not so much
> music or an art exactly, it's lifestyle.
>                                             -Jeff Mills
>
> ---Joe Rice <joe@justiceleague.com> wrote:
> >
> > So does the scene change, or do we? Ever since I
> started going to raves in
> > '92 I heard that they were going downhill, that
> they weren't as good as
> > they were in '89, or '91, or '93, or '94, and so
> on. People blame the
> > promoters, the DJ's, the drugs, the newbies, the
> venues... It all goes
> > around again and again. It's  humorous after
> awhile, until you're the one
> > telling people about the good old days...
> >
> > You realize how many people you don't see around
> anymore, how you don't get
> > excited every Saturday night calling a
> malfunctioning voicemail every five
> > minutes trying to find out where the damn map point
> is. Perhaps worst, you
> > start to feel like the scene owes you, not that you
> owe the scene.
> >
> > Then you realize how much you cherish the old
> friends that you do see, and
> > the new faces you meet, and realize you can go
> anywhere in the world and
> > find something similar and you start to think maybe
> you're not quite so
> > jaded after all. =)
> >
> > Huh. I must have slept too much last night.
> >
> > While looking through the SFR archives the other
> day trying to figure out
> > what my first SF Rave was called (Haze theatre,
> late May or early June '93
> > - any ideas?) I read through a couple months of
> posts and realized how
> > relevant many of the posts seemed. Relevant not
> just in the sense of rave
> > related but in general thoughtfulness. While there
> seemed to certainly be
> > the same sorts of endless threads we experience
> now, there were also more
> > promoters and active ravers taking part in the
> discourse - in short it
> > seemed very much like a bunch of people excited
> they'd found something
> > common to share and eager to communicate about it.
> >
> > Of course, this could just be nostalgia talking; as
> I wasn't on SFR back
> > then (still SoCal at that point) I'm curious as to
> the reflections of those
> > who've been on this list straight through from back
> in the day. (I know JSL
> > and Ethan were a couple names I recognized as still
> being active)
> >
> > I'm sure the size difference accounts for much of
> how the list has
> > developed, but I'm also curious about how the list
> is seen from a new
> > user's perspective now as compared to how it was
> seen to a new user 4 or 5
> > years ago.
> >
> > I'd also recommend checking out some of the
> archives - there's a history of
> > our scene there that's quite valuable.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 02:18:46 1998
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From: "Minh Q. Le" <mlowdrma@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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-->The first mind trick worked, but this one didn't...it was off by a
year, but if you go by chinese bdays, then it is right....

:)
M&m


On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 Dsfunshnl1@aol.com wrote:

>      Hey all you groovy people.... if the first mind trick didn't work 4 ya...
> get ready 4 sumpin' freaky  'cuz this one is guaranteed!  ....and it's 100%
> legal, so there's no hard-drive worries!!!...  =)   <just kidding> 
> 
> ....props to my friend Colleen who forwarded this 2 me....!
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > THIS IS SCARY BUT IT REALLY WORKS.
> > >
> > > DON'T CHEAT BY SCROLLING DOWN FIRST!!! It only
> > > takes 30 seconds.
> > >
> > > Work this out as you read.  (grab that calculator if you need to....)
> > >
> > > Don't read the bottom until you have worked it
> > > out.!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > 1.First of all, pick the number of days a week that
> > > you would like to go out.
> > >
> > > 2.Multiply this number by 2.
> > >
> > > 3.Add 5.
> > >
> > > 4.Multiply it by 50.
> > >
> > >
> > > 5.If you have already had your birthday this
> > > year, add 1748.
> > > If you haven't, add 1747.
> > >
> > > 6.Last step: Subtract the four digit year that you
> > > were born.
> > > see below:
> > >
> > > RESULTS:
> > > You should now have a three digit number:
> > >
> > > The first digit of this was your original
> > > number(i.e. how many times you
> > > want to go out each week).
> > >
> > > The second two digits are your age!!! It really
> > > works.
> > >
> > > This is the only year it will ever work, so spread
> > > the joy around by mailing
> > > this to everyone you know.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> 
> ....kinda kewl, huh?....
> 
> Peace,
> ~Michael
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 02:24:21 1998
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> Hey all you groovy people.... if the first mind trick didn't work 4 ya...
> get ready 4 sumpin' freaky  'cuz this one is guaranteed!  ....and it's 100%
> legal, so there's no hard-drive worries!!!...  =)   <just kidding>
>
> <snip>
>
> > THIS IS SCARY BUT IT REALLY WORKS.

There's nothing scary about it.  It's just plain old algebra.  (But then
again, I guess algebra scares a lot of people.)

> > 1.First of all, pick the number of days a week that
> > you would like to go out.

OK, let's call that number x.

> > 2.Multiply this number by 2.

Now we have 2x.

> > 3.Add 5.

Now we have 2x+5.

> > 4.Multiply it by 50.

Now we have (2x+5)*50, which equals 100x+250.

> > 5.If you have already had your birthday this
> > year, add 1748.
> > If you haven't, add 1747.

Now we have either 50x+250+1747, which equals 100x+1997,
or we have 50x+250+1748, which equals 100x+1998.

> > 6.Last step: Subtract the four digit year that you
> > were born.

Since 1998 - the year you were born is your age, we now have
100x + your age.

> > RESULTS:
> > You should now have a three digit number:
> >
> > The first digit of this was your original
> > number(i.e. how many times you
> > want to go out each week).
> >
> > The second two digits are your age!!! It really
> > works.

It works as long as you're less than 100 years old, that is.  And you will
only get a 3-digit number if the number of times you want to go out during
the week is between 1 and 9.  (I know people who prefer to go out 0 times a
week.)

> > This is the only year it will ever work, so spread
> > the joy around by mailing this to everyone you know.

It will work for any year, as long as you modify the fudge factor of 1747/1748.




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 02:27:39 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:25:26 -0800
From: "Bruce G. Meier, CRM" <bmeier@pacbell.net>
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VERY kewl! Our world is controlled by mathematics...

b.

Dsfunshnl1@aol.com wrote:

>      Hey all you groovy people.... if the first mind trick didn't work 4 ya...
> get ready 4 sumpin' freaky  'cuz this one is guaranteed!  ....and it's 100%
> legal, so there's no hard-drive worries!!!...  =)   <just kidding>
>
> ....props to my friend Colleen who forwarded this 2 me....!
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > THIS IS SCARY BUT IT REALLY WORKS.
> > >
> > > DON'T CHEAT BY SCROLLING DOWN FIRST!!! It only
> > > takes 30 seconds.
> > >
> > > Work this out as you read.  (grab that calculator if you need to....)
> > >
> > > Don't read the bottom until you have worked it
> > > out.!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > 1.First of all, pick the number of days a week that
> > > you would like to go out.
> > >
> > > 2.Multiply this number by 2.
> > >
> > > 3.Add 5.
> > >
> > > 4.Multiply it by 50.
> > >
> > >
> > > 5.If you have already had your birthday this
> > > year, add 1748.
> > > If you haven't, add 1747.
> > >
> > > 6.Last step: Subtract the four digit year that you
> > > were born.
> > > see below:
> > >
> > > RESULTS:
> > > You should now have a three digit number:
> > >
> > > The first digit of this was your original
> > > number(i.e. how many times you
> > > want to go out each week).
> > >
> > > The second two digits are your age!!! It really
> > > works.
> > >
> > > This is the only year it will ever work, so spread
> > > the joy around by mailing
> > > this to everyone you know.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ....kinda kewl, huh?....
>
> Peace,
> ~Michael




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 02:41:17 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:34:29 -0500
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From: Ruth Jennison <ruthj@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Trancforce not hapnin?
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Hey..

I just rang F-8 and they said not they were really unsure as whether or not
tranceforce was on for tonight. im coming from the east bay-- without a
car-- so I definitely know whether or not to risk it.. thanks in advance for
any information.


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 03:46:35 1998
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From: Paul Hayden <goodvibe@geocities.com>
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No serotonin syndrome is bad. I am not sure what happens, but i think
it's when you can't produce any or your serotonin nuerons are
permanently damaged.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog

Natasha426@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 1/29/98 9:03:01 PM, you wrote:
> 
> <<Wouldn't you rather someone
> post thier concerns and questions regarding drugs than to wind up dead.
> Or with serotonin syndrome? >>
> 
> Is this like mad cow disease?
> 
> :D  :D

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 06:23:19 1998
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happy friday to all!!

what is the frequency/411 on *Trance Force* tonite??

i oopps! deleted all the threads re it DOH!

pretty please send email or call me if  it's still on
415.621.1466
415.606.1062

much thanx!
huggies absorb more plur,
Elena

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 06:34:10 1998
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From: Natasha426@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:31:17 EST
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<< Also, on a related rant,
the Amereican Medical Association, A Dental A, etc do NOT exist
for the benefit of patients, but for the benefit of doctors (and
dentists, and psychologists, etc).  That's why there's fluoride
in your water, when your teeth are made of calcium.>>

Actually, fluoride helps to remineralize teeth where there has 
been decay or weakening of the enamel.  Unlike calcium, fluoride 
*can* be used to rebuild tooth enamel and therefore in low doses
is beneficial.  So, it actually *is* (surprise! surprise!) a public
health concern.  It's only at high doses (usually ingested) that 
fluoride mottles teeth and causes white discolorations

OK call me a dork, I just wrote a paper on the stuff!!  :D

I DO agree, however, that the FDA and DEA and ADA and all
the other "_DA" 's are there more for purposes of "control"
and profit than for the public's well-being, at least where
pharmaceuticals and experimental drugs (ie, clinical trials)  
and the like are concerned...

putting back on my tortoise-shell-colored nerd glasses,
:D :D
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 06:49:41 1998
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In a message dated 1/30/98, Paul wrote:

<<No serotonin syndrome is bad. I am not sure what happens, but i think
it's when you can't produce any or your serotonin nuerons are
permanently damaged.
Love,
Paul*E*Wog>>

Paul, you are absolutely right that serotonin syndrome is serious.  It results
from the dangerous combination of SSRIs with MAOs, which leads to extremely
high levels of serotonin at your neuron synapses, causing hyperthermia (too
hot!), muscle rigidity (you stiff! :D ), and other unpleasant side effects..

I was only poking fun at the recent attention which has been focused on all
this drug- and medically-related talk
I am probably not helping this situation any by posting this, (sorrie
everybodie!) but I just wanted to let ya know that you're right to take
serotonin syndrome seriously.  (all drugs, legal or not, should be taken
seriously, IMO)

Be careful, k?

:) natasha 

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 06:55:38 1998
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From: "Py- Ro" <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: **Warmth One year Party**
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hmm, the relationship between the word sketchy, and the name Macadio 
have been getting closer and closer these days... Could it be.....
SATAN!?!?!?!?!? hehehe. You know I'll be there Macdaddy. :)



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 07:01:33 1998
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From: "Py- Ro" <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
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To be honest with you, I didn't read the whole message. In fact, I got 
to about the second word and hit the reply all button. No offense 
pacbowl, but here's my opinion:

Raves are around for two reasons; 1) for the people who throw the 
parties to make money, even if they don't make money, the possibility is 
there, and it's a descent prospect (not that that's the only reason they 
throw the parties, but anyone who says that they aren't trying to make 
something somewhere is either trying to decieve you, or themselves. 
sorry, but that's my opinion.) 2) for the people that go, to have fun. 
It's going to change because people get bored of the same thing year 
after year. Period. 

Get over it. Welcome to the real world. If football was the same as it 
was fifty years ago, do you think it would be as popular? No, there'd be 
too many lawsuits...


:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
    PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
    PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
    PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
    PP         YY       RR    RR    OO  

Pyro

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)




From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 16:10:46 1998
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<<hmm, the relationship between the word sketchy, and the name Macadio 
have been getting closer and closer these days...>>

Could this be Mackdaddio's signature phrase?  :) 
Funny as it may seem, no one I've known has ever 
used that word before!  :D


luv n hugs
natasha

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 16:34:23 1998
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From: "Ran D. Dreams" <randdream@hotmail.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: **Warmth One year Party** (semi BSP)
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Hi all!  ]=}

 I guess I outa act all kewel and say that I've been on the horn with 
Spence also.  ;)  I was lucky enough to work with him at Warmth 2 and he 
has asked me to help out with Warmth 3. Dionysus Dreams will be in da 
house!  =)  Probably will be doing an extensive projection show if I 
have my way.  ;)  Don't know when it will be but soonish...

hugz,


Ran D. Dreams

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|                           ran                           |
||                           @                           ||
|||                    Dionysus Dreams                  |||
||                      510-412-2131                     ||
|                         *Namaste*                       |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 16:37:36 1998
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>From: Natasha426@aol.com

>Could this be Mackdaddio's signature phrase?  :) 
>Funny as it may seem, no one I've known has ever 
>used that word before!  

 That's 'cause he's an original babeee!  =)


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 18:12:56 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:10:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: Natasha426@aol.com
cc: shagaliscious@hotmail.com, sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: **Warmth One year Party**
In-Reply-To: <ae2608c4.34d34c93@aol.com>
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what, the word sketchy?
oh man, i use it a helluva lot of times.
macadio is NOT sketchy compared to all the foolz out there...
hehehe

WARMTH ONE YEAR BAYBEEEEE YEAAAAH!!!
i'm already there.
lara

On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 Natasha426@aol.com wrote:

> 
> <<hmm, the relationship between the word sketchy, and the name Macadio 
> have been getting closer and closer these days...>>
> 
> Could this be Mackdaddio's signature phrase?  :) 
> Funny as it may seem, no one I've known has ever 
> used that word before!  :D
> 
> 
> luv n hugs
> natasha
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 18:23:12 1998
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But's it's funny though.  When you hang out with Macadio just for a bit
you start using the word yourself.  For example, I have found myself
saying "sketchy" fairly often and I don't remember ever doing that before
I met Macadio.  Hmmmmmm.....what a mystery.

Drekster.


On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:08:49 EST Natasha426@aol.com writes:
>
><<hmm, the relationship between the word sketchy, and the name Macadio 
>
>have been getting closer and closer these days...>>
>
>Could this be Mackdaddio's signature phrase?  :) 
>Funny as it may seem, no one I've known has ever 
>used that word before!  :D
>
>
>luv n hugs
>natasha
>

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 19:23:43 1998
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Reply-To: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: "SFRaves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: In House We Trust 411 ???
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:22:05 -0800
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How to we find out about "In House We Trust" tonight ?

The calendar says that info is TBA ...

Thanks !!

Rudi

The content of this message | mailto:rudir@aimnet.com
in no way reflects the      | mailto:rrughoon@mipos3.intel.com
opinion of my employer :)   | http://www.aimnet.com/~rudir/
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 20:22:29 1998
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From: <blkadder@value.net>
To: steve <sbrocksieck@compare.net>
cc: SFRaves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Please Help....R U joking?I guess you werent
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On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, steve wrote:

> Don't fool yourself thinking that the DEA or FDA are out for your
> benefit, or to keep you safe.  They are out for profit.  If they
> were here for your safety, alcohol and tobacco would be illegal,
> and pot, LSD, and ecstacy would be legal.  

That is an absurd statement. If they were out for your safety, all of the
above would be illegal. 

> Also, on a related rant, the Amereican Medical Association, A Dental A,
> etc do NOT exist for the benefit of patients, but for the benefit of
> doctors (and dentists, and psychologists, etc).  That's why there's
> fluoride in your water, when your teeth are made of calcium.

Flouride in the water decreases the instances of tooth decay. Explain how
it benefits denists monetarily to have people have less cavities.

> > I also think it is a tragedy that we live in a
> > society where if Bristol Myers can market it then its
> > got to be safe- well how many perscription drug
> > abusers do we have out there huh.
> 
> The various "medical" associations in this country are only in the
> business of selling drugs made by the big companies, not in making
> sure people are healthy.  Trust me, they really wish heroin,
> the most addictive drug around (next to nicotine, of course) was
> legal.  If it were, there would be a McHeroin burger available
> at fast food resturaunts.

Heroin was invented to get people off of morphine. Morphine is still
legal. And I don't believe that there is any basis in your statement that
nicotine is the most addictive drug around. If you have evidence to the
contrary, please post it. You serve no one by spouting a stream of
misinformation. 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 20:22:46 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:30:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: goolie <goolie@cloudfactory.org>
To: SF Raves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
cc: mothman@best.com, Annette Loudon <annette@construct.net>
Subject: BSP - e l e c t r o n i c a (fwd)
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Well, actually, a BPFAF (Blatant Promotion For a Friend, as we say in the
Biz). 

Live, kinda downtempo-triphop.  Mothman has a self-produced CD that I
really love...  Plus m'man Lior gettin' nutty on the CD decks! 

bootie shakes and pelvic quakes,

--goolz

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:25:05 -0800
From: annette@construct.net
Cc: mothman@best.com
Subject: e l e c t r o n i c a

Next Tuesday the Paradise Lounge presents live Electronica:

02.03.98

 mothman
 lily white lies
 cellophane masses
 DJ Lior

Fucked-up trip-hoppy goodness fresh from the bedroom studios and closet
recording booths of San Francisco.

Good people and groovy tunes should ensure that a good time is had by all.

Time:  Live stuff is from 10pm-12pm
       Lior's spinnin' after that...



                                 






From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 20:49:48 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:49:01 -0800
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From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Please Help
Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 07:04 PM 1/29/98 -0800, Paul Hayden wrote:
>I don't think Zolofot is an illegal drug. Wouldn't you rather someone
>post thier concerns and questions regarding drugs than to wind up dead.

I'd rather someone who is taking prescription drugs ask their doctor about
what other substances have bad interactions with those drugs.  If your
doctor adheres to the ethics of the Hippocratic Oath he'll be bound to
answer your questions without giving you reason to worry about getting in
trouble.  Regardless, if your doctor is recommending *antidepressents*, you
really should be telling them about other drugs you're taking, no?

I've never heard of a situation where someone, in confidence and "off the
record", revealed drug use information to a personal doctor and gotten in
trouble because of it.

>Where is
>tie between drugs and raves? It's in the religion depp in the rave. Part
>of the religion invloves drugs that alter your conciousness. Just
>because this psychedeliphobic society doesn't like the fact that we take
>drugs doesn't mean we should stop. It is not against the law to talk
>about drugs. It is not against the law to question the law. It is not
>against the law to want to do drugs safley. Stop stressing. If it really
>becomes a problem Brian will tell me. 

As I've said privately and publicly, the problem is not that drugs are
being discussed.  One problem is that the discussions go off the topic of
how they and raves are tied together.  Another, more serious problem is
that some people think that email is unintroducable in court or is
otherwise sufficiently "anonymous" that they can shed all discretion, and
not only talk about their own personal drug use, but that of other people
by name.  If people don't see this as a problem, they simply haven't been
around long enough.  

>It's his damn list he can boot me
>off if he wants to. 

Though I've been tempted to, this is definitely a last resort type of
thing, that I know never works anyways since it takes 20 seconds to create
a new Hotmail account and personality.

>If he feel that my posts threaten this list then he
>will tell me and i will comply, until that happens I will continue to
>excersice my first ammendament.

Or abuse the meaning of the first amendment :)  All I ask for is some
discretion.  

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"Optimism is a strategy for making                         brian@apache.org
a better future." - Noam Chomsky                        brian@hyperreal.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 21:19:57 1998
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From: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
To: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: back on the MUSIC tip :) sorry to interrupt the drug postings *giggling*
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:09:44 -0800
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Hey all :) Just got DJ Shadow's new release, Pre-emptive Strike
and it's awesome! :) I got it from oddly enough www.cdnow.com
(oddly because i got it on vinyl, not cd!) for $11.99 - not a bad deal!

Organ Donor, with the remixed and funky sounds of an organ
is probably known by most of you, but it's still one of my
favorite songs on the album. But you know, i've never heard a song
by him I didn't like.....
He has the coolest samples :)

I especially like this one...
"everybody's so concerned about heroin and marijuana and all that..
and so they forget the most dangerous narcotic that exists
and that's the narcotic that is injected into the minds of infinite
people...
it's called Social Narcotics!"

anyway, check it out.

I also am really digging Roni Size & Reprazent - New Forms...for anyone
who digs jungle/d&b this is a great one...2 cds, lots of variety in styles +
mood......

What else do you guys recommend that you've picked up
recently?

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
         what does it mean when someone says
            "my computer went down on me"?
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 21:51:32 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:55:27 -0700
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
Subject: Re: Goldie Album
Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.org
Precedence: bulk

Welp,

to answer my own question, I just went to tower records up here in Sacto,
and they are getting 5 copies at Broadway on Tuesday. I imagine that it
will be generally released on that date.

rob.

p.s. I hope you like them. There is a story on DJ Shadow there as well. :)

kim,

sorry 'bout the repeat. Sending it for all those rascally sfravers...

>hmmm. not yet. i remember reading the date at http://www.cdnow.com
>in the urban/electronic section but i forgot...check it out :)
>
>i think i'm going to check out your pages now.
>
>love kim
>.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>         what does it mean when someone says
>            "my computer went down on me"?
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
>seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
>http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
>Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Pointer <rwpointer@citiscape.com>
>To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
>Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 4:03 PM
>Subject: Goldie Album
>
>
>>Anybody have any information on the album saturnz return?
>>
>>I thought it was supposed to be released already.
>>
>>thanks,
>>
>>
>>rob.
>>http://www.citizenmag.com
>>http://www.citiscape.com
>>


rob.
http://www.citizenmag.com
http://www.citiscape.com



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 22:16:08 1998
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From: "lara at vibe.org" <lara@vibe.org>
To: ".oOo.oOo.oOo." <groovinkim@connectexpress.com>
cc: sfraves <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: back on the MUSIC tip :) sorry to interrupt the drug postings *giggling*
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i would have tosay that your taste in music is totally fucking kickass for
one :)
uncle noah sent me the vinyl of SHARE THE FALL that has the remix by
grooverider, AND newforms on the flipside! *swoooooooon* 
intelligent!

but reccomendations, if you like shadow you'll LOVE 
COLD KRUSH CUTS 
which is a 2-CD set with a mix by KRUSH on one CD
and COLDCUT VS DJ FOOD on the second, totally whacked and lovely and it's
for the price of ONE CD at tower, so it's a total bargain!:)

just my point of view on the musical tip.
lovin~~
xo
lara

On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, .oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:

> Hey all :) Just got DJ Shadow's new release, Pre-emptive Strike
> and it's awesome! :) I got it from oddly enough www.cdnow.com
> (oddly because i got it on vinyl, not cd!) for $11.99 - not a bad deal!
> 
> Organ Donor, with the remixed and funky sounds of an organ
> is probably known by most of you, but it's still one of my
> favorite songs on the album. But you know, i've never heard a song
> by him I didn't like.....
> He has the coolest samples :)
> 
> I especially like this one...
> "everybody's so concerned about heroin and marijuana and all that..
> and so they forget the most dangerous narcotic that exists
> and that's the narcotic that is injected into the minds of infinite
> people...
> it's called Social Narcotics!"
> 
> anyway, check it out.
> 
> I also am really digging Roni Size & Reprazent - New Forms...for anyone
> who digs jungle/d&b this is a great one...2 cds, lots of variety in styles +
> mood......
> 
> What else do you guys recommend that you've picked up
> recently?
> 
> love kim
> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
>          what does it mean when someone says
>             "my computer went down on me"?
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
> seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
> http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
> Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!
> 


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 22:17:27 1998
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Try Air's latest LP, "Moon Safari." The ultimate in space-age
lounge music from Paris. Also, try a local band called Tipsy.
They may be appearing soon on KZSU's Wednesday night
live.

I would pass on Goldie's latest. The producer behind his
work (that I think is the real talent but can't remember his
name for the life of me right now) was fired a while ago.
The results suffer. You decide.

Also, catch Death in Vegas, Crystal Method, and Fatboy Slim
performing live on MTV's Fashionably Loud fashion show this
Sunday 8pm.

Check AMP on MTV tonight at 2am.

I'm glad you finally latched on to Roni Size. It's about time. That's
ancient ;-) ... Go forth and seek anything from Jamie Myerson
... I'm sure you are already familiar with his anthem "Music for
the Lonely" ... beautiful, lush, D&B

And if you still dig Sisters of Mercy they are at Martime Hall
2/5 and 2/6.

.oOo.oOo.oOo. wrote:

> Hey all :) Just got DJ Shadow's new release, Pre-emptive Strike
> and it's awesome! :) I got it from oddly enough www.cdnow.com
> (oddly because i got it on vinyl, not cd!) for $11.99 - not a bad deal!
>
> Organ Donor, with the remixed and funky sounds of an organ
> is probably known by most of you, but it's still one of my
> favorite songs on the album. But you know, i've never heard a song
> by him I didn't like.....
>
> I also am really digging Roni Size & Reprazent - New Forms...for anyone
> who digs jungle/d&b this is a great one...2 cds, lots of variety in styles +
> mood......
>
> What else do you guys recommend that you've picked up
> recently?

--
"Gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free."



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 22:26:30 1998
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Anyone going to community this wednesday? I dunno
where it is, but a friend suggested I go. Anyone have any
details?

What is everyone doing tonight/tomorrow?
I played tourist and saw Cirrus last night.
They were on for like an hour and then evacuated.
I couldn't tell if they were really playing or not.
The sound system was kinda funky though. I enjoyed
it...but they shoulda performed somewhere else.
It was just like the junglists in the basement- cool
stuff happens and few people appreciate it...but what do
I know?

Who was that house dj who was spinnin before they
went on? He was rockin. I normally don't get too
stoked from house, but some large scale rump
shakin was goin on... had a great time-
despite club nerdery.

Oh yeah here's my website + contact info if anyone is interested
in any general debauchery.
http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/5583/planetnick.html


:D
N


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 22:28:39 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-31 16:20:02 EST, you write:

<< I also am really digging Roni Size & Reprazent - New Forms...for anyone
 who digs jungle/d&b this is a great one...2 cds, lots of variety in styles +
 mood...... >>


OhHhhhhhHhh! Those two CD's are reallllllly good. They are both full of tracks
with reallly smooth jungle, some pretty vocals, all tied in with some acid
jazzy, hip hop sound...Definitely worth picking up.

My favorite tracks are Railing, Heroes, Share The Fall and Brown Paper Bag
(the track on the album isn't the same one they've played on MTV. This one has
no vocals...)

Another good thing to pick up is Dieselboy's 97octane. It needs no
explanation. Just go get it if you haven't already! =*)

I heard Roni Size was scheduled to come to the Bay Area sometime soon...Can
anyone confirm this?

-=~*LaUrE@*~=-

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 22:37:29 1998
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Reply-To: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
From: "Rudi Rughoonundon" <rudir@aimnet.com>
To: "DJ Nick" <nicholas@sirius.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Cirrus/Anyone going to community?
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Are you looking for "Come Unity" ?

here is what i got from the calendar ...

Come/Unity - House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first
Wednesday of the month. 10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF.
415.241.8815
[2.4 - guests Ben Wa (2 sets, one up and one down)]

peace and really loud ass dance music ...

Rudi

-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Nick <nicholas@sirius.com>
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 2:26 PM
Subject: Cirrus/Anyone going to community?


>Anyone going to community this wednesday? I dunno
>where it is, but a friend suggested I go. Anyone have any
>details?
>
>What is everyone doing tonight/tomorrow?
>I played tourist and saw Cirrus last night.
>They were on for like an hour and then evacuated.
>I couldn't tell if they were really playing or not.
>The sound system was kinda funky though. I enjoyed
>it...but they shoulda performed somewhere else.
>It was just like the junglists in the basement- cool
>stuff happens and few people appreciate it...but what do
>I know?
>
>Who was that house dj who was spinnin before they
>went on? He was rockin. I normally don't get too
>stoked from house, but some large scale rump
>shakin was goin on... had a great time-
>despite club nerdery.
>
>Oh yeah here's my website + contact info if anyone is interested
>in any general debauchery.
>http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/5583/planetnick.html
>
>
>:D
>N
>



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 22:43:13 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:44:35 -0800
From: Billabong <Bbong@goplay.com>
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It's at Meartime Hall.... Let me know if anybody's going?


peace,

Billabong


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jan 31 22:48:10 1998
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Rudi and I are going.  Anyone in the south bay wanna meet up before hand?
Even if you aren't going to the rave? :)

Btw, Bbong, how'd you find out where it is, is there a # for it?

Billabong wrote:
> 
> It's at Meartime Hall.... Let me know if anybody's going?
> 
> 
> peace,
> 
> Billabong
> 
> 



                                   Haze
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +  Email: Haze@netgate.net             Website:http://haze.netgate.net  +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +       Purple Haze MUSH: madcoyote.com 6250 or 204.152.80.193 6250     +
 +                     http://www.madcoyote.com/haze                     +
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Feb 01 00:17:51 1998
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I have the chart release "Temper Temper". And though I love it it seems 
more of a radio cut than a dance floor fave.

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Feb 01 00:50:02 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:49:48 EST
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Drum & Bass headz,
'ERE DIS!!

         =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                     PHUNCKATECK has a new night for a monthly.....



                        IT'S @ THE TOP (just like the old dayz!!!)
                                     424 HAIGHT ST S.F.


                      *EVERY THIRD SATURDAY OF THE MONTH!!*
                  The first one will be SATURDAY, FEB. 21ST 1998

                            STARTS @ 10:00 goes until 2:00

                                       sorry, but it's 21+

                                     5 BUCKS on the door.

                          this months guest will be: GAMEKAT
                          w/ djs: ABSTRACT -N- JASON MOUSE



           Also we will have a bi-weekly coming soon @ another location.
                                Stay informed thru our info line: 
                                     
                                        *415.331.1500  ext.160*



                                             spread the word...


       =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hope to see you out,
NOEL
PHUNKN3@aol.com

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Feb 01 00:50:05 1998
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To: "Sharif Torpis" <faust@grift.com>
Cc: "sfraves" <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: back on the MUSIC tip :) sorry to interrupt the drug postings *giggling*
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:37:23 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Sharif Torpis <faust@grift.com>


>Try Air's latest LP, "Moon Safari." The ultimate in space-age
>lounge music from Paris.

I actually just got that too, and I really like it :) Forgot to mention it
though.

>I'm glad you finally latched on to Roni Size. It's about time. That's
>ancient ;-) ...

I didn't say I had just heard him recently....just that I had recently
bought
the cd....i've been listening to his stuff for awhile.....

I also recommend anything by Makyo......that guy's awesome :)

love kim
.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.
         what does it mean when someone says
            "my computer went down on me"?
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave/groovinkim/events.html
seattle rave and club night listings =) ICQ #2388692
http://www.pulpfiction.com/rave
Raverbooks - the world's first raver bookstore!



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Feb 01 01:24:12 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:27:33 -0800
To: AndyW <andy@saturn5.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Is the scene changing?
Cc: fish1111@pacbell.net, sfraves@hyperreal.org
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At 12:51 PM -0800 1/30/98, AndyW wrote:
>In response to your questions about the direction of the scene...
>
>The scene goes back a long time.  I think gypsies, kids that ran away from
>home to follow the carnival, deadheads, ravers all share a sort of common
>bond.  It starts usually with some rebellion, diving head first into this
>deviant activity, full of sideshow freaks and the wildest and weirdest
>there is to offer.

THE first documented rave was in the book of Exodus, when Moses had brought
the tablets down from the mount.  And I quote (Exodus 32:19) "..and it came
to pass as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and
the dancing.."

Now of course that is the always revised and altered King James version.  I
have an older bible that goes into the depravity much more.  If you want
the original text forget the Christians and go right to the Tanakh (Torah,
Nethuvim, Kethuvim) for the real goods.  Suffice it to say that after that
rabble rousing where the top cop , g-d, had to pull the permits, nothing
was quite the same for my Jewish brothers or any other partygoers for that
matter.

The Greeks & Romans followed suit with other hedonism.  Raving is really ,
really, really old.  At LEAST 5000 years.

<snip , excellent insight and commentry, refer to the original source>

>Of course the scene is changing, at about the same speed that we are.
>
>Thanks Jack,
>AndyW

I had to add my .02 on the biblical tip.

Shalom,
John




"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Feb 01 01:54:56 1998
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Can anyone out there recommend a good place
to go in Homolulu on a Fri and Sat nite?

thanx a lot!

mac


From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Feb 01 02:42:05 1998
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hey anyone know how much is in house we trust tonight?????? please let me
know =P 
Mucho thank you-o!!!!!
Love ya,
toof
http://www.toof.org

From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Feb 01 03:17:31 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:20:54 -0800
To: "Py- Ro" <shagaliscious@hotmail.com>
From: "John S. Lee" <jsl@twenty-hz.com>
Subject: Re: Is the scene changing?
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As jaded as I am, I just couldn;t let this go unchallenged and unrebuffed.
I disassemble thus:

At 11:01 PM -0800 1/30/98, Py- Ro wrote:
>To be honest with you, I didn't read the whole message. In fact, I got
>to about the second word and hit the reply all button. No offense
>pacbowl, but here's my opinion:

So you didn't read the whole message.  Didn't need to, because from a mere
*two* words, you already knew the rest.  Now if we could just employ your
compression algorithm to the entire text of human knowledge we could house
our entire history in just a few books.  F speed reading, Py- Ro has the
answer!

>
>Raves are around for two reasons; 1) for the people who throw the
>parties to make money, even if they don't make money, the possibility is
>there, and it's a descent prospect (not that that's the only reason they
>throw the parties, but anyone who says that they aren't trying to make
>something somewhere is either trying to decieve you, or themselves.
>sorry, but that's my opinion.) 2) for the people that go, to have fun.
>It's going to change because people get bored of the same thing year
>after year. Period.

Even *I* know better, and I basically started raves.  I am Moses
re-incarnate, as such, I was there when the children of Israel did a great
sin against g-d, dancing, and going buck wild around a golden calf and all.
Anyway I digress...the scene will never be able to be compressed the way
you envision.  First of all the number of reasons the rave is still around
are as numerous as the thousands who still attend.  Secondly , promtoers
have as many reasons as dollars for throwing parties and staying in the
game.  The equation is neither linear nor simple.  It just is.  Accept
that, don;t quantify it, make the experience yours, and do or learn from it
what you will.

>
>Get over it. Welcome to the real world. If football was the same as it
>was fifty years ago, do you think it would be as popular?

Uisng your compression algorithm, probably not, since you throw away so
many variables as to simplfy the euqation to basically two determinants.

Non-sequitor.

> No, there'd be
>too many lawsuits...

an assumption...

>
>
>:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
>
>    PPPP     YY   YY     RRRR       OO
>    PP  PP    YY YY     RR  RR     OOOO
>    PPPPP      YY       RRRRR     OO  OO
>    PP         YY       RR  RR     OOOO
>    PP         YY       RR    RR    OO
>
>Pyro
>
>:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

Pax,
John

"Everyday above ground is a good day." - Mel Bernstein, Chief Detective
Narcotics



From sfraves-owner-sfraves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Feb 01 06:36:28 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-31 17:16:24 EST, lara@vibe.org writes:

<< but reccomendations, if you like shadow you'll LOVE 
 COLD KRUSH CUTS 
 which is a 2-CD set with a mix by KRUSH on one CD
 and COLDCUT VS DJ FOOD on the second, totally whacked and lovely and it's
 for the price of ONE CD at tower, so it's a total barga >>
 
No kiddin these two kick ass! You mite even try dj shadows last cd and the one
before that, any DJ krush is great and DJ Honda is pretty cool too! if you
like acid jazz the Home Cookin' series is so damn good! its like 4 or 5
different compliation cds, they don;t all come together, but they are really
cool! ok buh bye good nite :o)
Love!
JiL :o)

